[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                  STANDING STRONG ON THE THIN BLUE LINE:
                   HOW  CONGRESS CAN  SUPPORT  STATE AND
                   LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT

=======================================================================







                                HEARING

                               before the

                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 15, 2024
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-63
                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
                                     





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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

58-257 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2025



























                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

                 Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee, Chairman
Michael T. McCaul, Texas             Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi, 
Clay Higgins, Louisiana                Ranking Member
Michael Guest, Mississippi           Sheila Jackson Lee, Texas
Dan Bishop, North Carolina           Eric Swalwell, California
Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida           J. Luis Correa, California
August Pfluger, Texas                Troy A. Carter, Louisiana
Andrew R. Garbarino, New York        Shri Thanedar, Michigan
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island
Tony Gonzales, Texas                 Glenn Ivey, Maryland
Nick LaLota, New York                Daniel S. Goldman, New York
Mike Ezell, Mississippi              Robert Garcia, California
Anthony D'Esposito, New York         Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
Laurel M. Lee, Florida               Robert Menendez, New Jersey
Morgan Luttrell, Texas               Thomas R. Suozzi, New York
Dale W. Strong, Alabama              Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma              Yvette D. Clarke, New York
Elijah Crane, Arizona
                      Stephen Siao, Staff Director
                  Hope Goins, Minority Staff Director
                       Sean Corcoran, Chief Clerk
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               Statements

Honorable Mark E. Green, a Representative in Congress From the 
  State of Tennessee, and Chairman, Committee on Homeland 
  Security:
  Oral Statement.................................................     1
  Prepared Statement.............................................     4
Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on 
  Homeland Security:
  Special Statement, Remembering Congressman Donald Payne, Jr. 
    (D-NJ).......................................................     2
  Oral Statement.................................................     2
  Prepared Statement.............................................     7
Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of Texas:
  Prepared Statement.............................................     8

                               Witnesses

Mr. Gregory Mays, Deputy Commissioner of Homeland Security, 
  Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security:
  Oral Statement.................................................    11
  Prepared Statement.............................................    13
Mr. Michael Chapman, Sheriff, Loudoun County, Virginia:
  Oral Statement.................................................    16
  Prepared Statement.............................................    18
Mr. Michael Bullock, President, Austin Police Association, 
  Austin, Texas:
  Oral Statement.................................................    20
  Prepared Statement.............................................    21
Mr. Rodney N. Bryant, President, National Organization of Black 
  Law Enforcement Executives:
  Oral Statement.................................................    23
  Prepared Statement.............................................    24

                             For the Record

Honorable Robert Garcia, a Representative in Congress From the 
  State of California:
  Article, JustSecurity.org......................................    43

 
                 STANDING STRONG ON THE THIN BLUE LINE:
                  HOW CONGRESS  CAN  SUPPORT  STATE AND
                  LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT

                              ----------                              

                        Wednesday, May 15, 2024

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                    Committee on Homeland Security,
                                            Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 
310, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mark E. Green (Chairman 
of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Green, Higgins, Guest, Gimenez, 
Pfluger, Garbarino, Greene, Gonzales, LaLota, Ezell, 
D'Esposito, Luttrell, Brecheen, Crane, Thompson, Swalwell, 
Thanedar, Ivey, Garcia, Ramirez, Menendez, Suozzi, and Kennedy.
    Chairman Green. The Committee on Homeland Security will 
come to order.
    Without objection, the Chair may declare the committee in 
recess at any point.
    Before we begin today's hearing, I would like to take a 
moment to recognize the loss of our dear friend to all on this 
committee, Congressman Donald Payne, Jr.
    Congressman Payne was a fierce advocate for the people of 
New Jersey's 10th District. His legacy, along with his father's 
legacy, will serve as a reminder to us all of what it means to 
be a true public servant.
    I really appreciated the time that I got to work with 
Congressman Payne on the Colorectal Cancer Caucus. He was a 
fierce fighter against that disease.
    I now recognize for a moment the Ranking Member, Ranking 
Member Thompson, to honor the life and legacy of Representative 
Payne.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
    This morning, we remember the life of Congressman Donald M. 
Payne, Jr., our colleague and friend.
    He was a union worker, a toll collector. He literally kept 
the buses of Essex County, New Jersey, running on time. He was 
an Essex County Freeholder, a Newark City Council member, a 
city council president. He was a Congressman, a statesman, a 
son, father, brother, and a husband.
    With a kind heart, a closet full of bow ties, and a wit as 
sharp as his suits, Congressman Payne brought people together. 
But he also fought for what he believed in. He gave a voice to 
the voiceless. He never wavered. He never backed down.
    While we mourn the loss of our colleague and friend, we 
know his legacy lives on. Congressman Payne's legacy lives on 
in the work he did in Congress, including right here in this 
committee, to make every child in every school in America safe.
    Because of Congressman Payne's advocacy, the Department of 
Homeland Security today reports to Congress on school security. 
Because of a law he authored, aptly named the Homeland Security 
for Children Act, the Department of Homeland Security must plan 
for children's unique needs during disasters.
    His legacy lives on in the hearts of his wife, Bea, and it 
lives on in the bright futures of his children, the triplets, 
Donald, Jack, and Yvonne. We pray for their peace and comfort 
at this difficult time.
    Congressman Payne served in Washington, DC, but his heart 
never left Newark's South Ward. Every moment he spent in the 
halls of Congress was in service to the people of Newark.
    Congressman Donald Payne, Jr., leaves a legacy to be proud 
of. May he rest in power and rest in peace.
    I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ranking Member Thompson 
follows:]
             Statement of Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson
             
                              May 15, 2024
            
            remembering congressman donald payne, jr. (d-nj)
            
    This morning, we remember the life of Congressman Donald M. Payne, 
Jr., our colleague and friend. He was a union worker, a toll collector. 
He literally kept the buses in Essex County, New Jersey, running on 
time. He was an Essex County Freeholder, a Newark City Council member, 
a City Council president. He was a Congressman, a statesman, a son, 
father, brother, and husband.
    With a kind heart, a closet full of bow ties, and a wit as sharp as 
his suits, Congressman Payne brought people together. But he also 
fought for what he believed in. He gave a voice to the voiceless. He 
never wavered. He never backed down.
    While we mourn the loss of our colleague and friend, we know his 
legacy lives on. Congressman Payne's legacy lives on in the work he did 
in Congress, including right here in this committee, to make every 
child and every school in America safer.
    Because of Congressman Payne's advocacy, the Department of Homeland 
Security today reports to Congress on school security.
    Because of a law he authored, aptly named the Homeland Security for 
Children Act, the Department of Homeland Security must plan for 
children's unique needs during disasters.
    His legacy lives on in the heart of his wife, Bea. And it lives on 
in the bright futures of his children, the triplets: Donald, Jack, and 
Yvonne. We pray for their peace and comfort at this difficult time.
    Congressman Payne served in Washington, DC, but his heart never 
left Newark's South Ward.
    Every moment he spent in the halls of Congress was in service to 
the people of Newark.
    Congressman Donald Payne, Jr., leaves a legacy to be proud of. May 
he rest in power and rest in peace.

    Chairman Green. I ask that the Members of this committee 
join me in observing a moment of silence to honor Congressman 
Payne's memory.
    [Moment of silence observed.]
    Chairman Green. Thank you.
    The purpose of our hearing today is to receive testimony 
from State and local law enforcement officers on the hurdles 
that their law enforcement agencies face in keeping our 
communities safe.
    I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
    Good morning.
    We're here today to honor and recognize law enforcement 
officers Nation-wide during National Police Week. While our 
Nation has always been grateful to our men and women in law 
enforcement, beginning in 1962 we officially began recognizing 
their bravery, sacrifice, and unwavering commitment to public 
safety on the 15th of May.
    Supporting our men and women in law enforcement should not 
be reserved for one week out of the year. Our Nation should be 
grateful every day to this unique group of men and women who 
risk their lives for our freedom and who serve our communities 
with a distinct sense of duty and honor.
    There's a saying, that service is the rent we pay for 
living on Earth. Our men and women who protect us daily pay the 
ultimate service and, for far too many, the ultimate sacrifice. 
Last year, 136 law enforcement officers were tragically killed 
in the line of duty. This year, there's been 56 and countless 
others injured.
    Just a few weeks ago, April 16, Police Officer Michael 
Jensen of the Syracuse Police Department and Lieutenant Hoosock 
of the Onondaga County Sheriff's Office in New York were both 
shot and killed while attempting to locate a subject who had 
led officers on a vehicle pursuit.
    Officer Jensen had served with the Syracuse Police 
Department 2\1/2\ years, and he is survived by his parents and 
sister. Lieutenant Hoosock served with the county sheriff's 
office for 16 years. He is survived by his wife and 3 children. 
I know for them and their colleagues this loss is 
incomprehensible.
    In early May, 4 law enforcement officers were killed in 
Charlotte, North Carolina, while attempting to serve a warrant 
to a convicted felon, and 4 more were injured. A former Durham-
based Marshals Service task force officer stated that he cannot 
remember another time in his 35-year career when 8 officers 
were attacked in one incident.
    From violent attacks on law enforcement to significant 
increase in crime across the country, it is an understatement 
to say that Americans no longer feel safe in their communities. 
We must provide reassurance to law-abiding citizens by holding 
lawbreakers accountable and let the level of accountability 
serve as a deterrence to others.
    Tough prosecutions, proper sentencing are not only examples 
of holding criminals accountable for their actions, but they 
send a message that Federal, State, and local jurisdictions 
will do what is necessary to protect their citizens.
    Even more important, this action will communicate to our 
law enforcement officers our appreciation and our commitment to 
equipping them with the resources required to fulfill their 
duties.
    Increasing crime rates and obstacles to prosecuting 
criminals are challenging enough, but dealing with these 
difficulties without adequate manpower and funding adds to the 
burden that law enforcement agencies across the Nation are 
confronting.
    Law enforcement agencies are not only grappling with 
unprecedented challenges in recruiting new personnel but are 
also contending with attrition rates and budget reductions. 
These factors hinder law enforcement agencies' ability to 
fulfill their obligations to safeguard Americans and obstruct 
police departments Nation-wide from accessing the necessary 
resources to enhance their officer training.
    In so doing, these factors also increase the risk to the 
men and women in blue who risk all for us every day. By 
reducing law enforcement budgets, police departments will face 
the tough decision of either lowering standards or being unable 
to fulfill their hiring requirements.
    This committee plays a critical role in overseeing the 
Department of Homeland Security, which aims to assist State, 
local, and Tribal and territorial law enforcement agencies in 
ensuring the safety, security, and resilience of our 
communities.
    We continue to focus on ensuring that information is 
efficiently shared between the Federal Government and State and 
local law enforcement agencies to combat the wide variety of 
threats from criminals and terrorists.
    Different parts of our country have their own unique 
challenges when it comes to dealing with crime. It's important 
that we ensure that DHS is properly supporting both 
metropolitan and rural communities as they confront these 
challenges.
    Today, I hope we can examine the ways that DHS supports 
these law enforcement agencies and identify new ways to 
improve. We should all work to ensure that the resources 
provided by DHS are effective in assisting law enforcement as 
they work to carry out their important mission.
    Last, it's crucial that, as a Nation, we regain a sense of 
appreciation and respect for the men and women in law 
enforcement who serve our communities and who pay the ultimate 
sacrifice for our protections.
    We have a distinguished panel of witnesses to testify about 
the daily challenges, successes, and strategies their officers 
encounter in dealing with various issues within their 
departments and communities.
    Thank you again to our witnesses for being here this 
morning, and I look forward to this important discussion.
    Before I recognize the Ranking Member for his opening 
statement, I would like to welcome Mr. Kennedy from New York to 
Congress and to our committee.
    I look forward to working with you. I will say that your 
addition here takes us to 7 members from New York. I think 
you're now 21 percent of this committee. So, not sure what that 
means, but we're glad to have you.
    It actually, you know, reflects back to the start of this 
committee and really what started it all. So we're very glad to 
have you.
    [The statement of Chairman Green follows:]
                
                Statement of Chairman Mark E. Green, MD
                              
                              May 15, 2024
                              
    Good morning, we are here today to honor and recognize law 
enforcement officers Nation-wide during National Police Week.
    While our Nation has always been grateful to our men and women in 
law enforcement, beginning in 1962, we officially began recognizing 
their bravery, sacrifice, and unwavering commitment to public safety on 
the 15th of May.
    Supporting our men and women in law enforcement should not be 
reserved for one week out of the year. Our Nation should be grateful 
every day to this unique group of men and women who risk their lives 
for our freedom and who serve our communities with a distinct sense of 
duty and honor.
    There's a saying that service is the rent we pay for living on this 
Earth. Our men and women who protect us daily pay the ultimate service, 
and far too often, the ultimate sacrifice.
    Last year, 136 law enforcement officers were tragically killed in 
the line of duty; this year, there have been 56 and countless others 
injured.
    Just a few weeks ago, on April 16, Police Officer Michael Jensen of 
the Syracuse Police Department and Lieutenant Michel Hoosock, of the 
Onondaga County Sheriff's Office in New York, were both shot and killed 
while attempting to locate a subject who had led officers on a vehicle 
pursuit.
    Officer Jensen served with the Syracuse Police Department for 2\1/
2\ years and is survived by his parents and sister. Lieutenant Hoosock 
served with the Onondaga County Sheriff's Office for 16 years. He is 
survived by his wife and 3 children.
    I know for them and for their colleagues, this loss is 
incomprehensible.
    In early May, 4 law enforcement officers were killed in Charlotte, 
North Carolina while attempting to serve a warrant to a convicted 
felon, and 4 more were injured. A former Durham-based Marshals Service 
Task Force Officer stated that he cannot remember another time in his 
35-year career when 8 officers were attacked in one incident.
    From violent attacks on law enforcement to the significant increase 
in crime across the country, it is an understatement to say that 
Americans no longer feel safe in their communities. We must provide 
reassurance to law-abiding citizens by holding law breakers 
accountable, and let the level of accountability serve as a deterrence 
to others.
    Tough prosecution and proper sentencing are not only examples of 
holding criminals accountable for their actions, but send a message 
that Federal, State, and local jurisdictions will do what is necessary 
to protect their citizens.
    Even more important, this action will communicate to our law 
enforcement officers our appreciation and our commitment to equipping 
them with the resources required to fulfill their duties.
    Increasing crime rates and obstacles to prosecuting criminals are 
challenging enough, but dealing with these difficulties without 
adequate manpower and funding adds to the burden that law enforcement 
agencies across the Nation are confronting.
    Law enforcement agencies are not only grappling with unprecedented 
challenges in recruiting new personnel, but are also contending with 
attrition rates, budget reductions, and diminished morale.
    These factors hinder law enforcement agencies' ability to fulfill 
their obligation to safeguard Americans and obstruct police departments 
Nation-wide from accessing the necessary resources to enhance officer 
training and prevent instances of police misconduct.
    By reducing law enforcement budgets, police departments will face 
the tough decision of either lowering their recruitment standards or 
being unable to fulfill their hiring requirements.
    This committee plays a crucial role in overseeing the Department of 
Homeland Security, which aims to assist State, local, Tribal, and 
territorial law enforcement agencies in ensuring the safety, security, 
and resilience of our communities.
    We continue to focus on ensuring that information is efficiently 
shared between the Federal Government and State and local law 
enforcement agencies to combat the wide variety of threats from 
criminals and terrorists.
    Different parts of our country have their own unique challenges 
when it comes to dealing with crime. It is important that we ensure 
that DHS is properly supporting both metropolitan and rural communities 
as they confront these challenges.
    Today, I hope that we can examine the ways DHS supports these law 
enforcement agencies and identify new ways to improve. We should all 
work to ensure that the resources provided by DHS are effective in 
assisting law enforcement as they work to carry out their important 
mission.
    Last, it's crucial that as a Nation, we regain a sense of 
appreciation and respect for the men and women in law enforcement who 
serve our communities, and who pay the ultimate sacrifice for our 
protection.
    We have a distinguished panel of witnesses to testify about the 
daily challenges, successes, and strategies their officers encounter in 
dealing with various issues within their departments and communities.
    Thank you again to our witnesses for being with us this morning, 
and I look forward to this important discussion.

    Chairman Green. I now recognize the Ranking Member, the 
gentleman from Mississippi, Mr. Thompson, for his opening 
statement.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to thank our panel of witnesses for being here today 
and for their service to our country.
    In honor of National Police Week, I also want to recognize 
the incredible contributions of law enforcement and honor those 
brave officers who have made the ultimate sacrifice to keep our 
communities safe. Our Nation is forever in their debt.
    Today, the committee is meeting to examine how Congress can 
support State and local law enforcement. This is an important 
question.
    National Police Week is of great importance, but 
Congressional support for law enforcement is about more than 
attending a ceremony or wearing a blue ribbon on your lapel one 
week out of the year. It's about supporting law enforcement, 
not just with ceremonial words or symbolic gestures, but 
showing up when it counts and voting for the resources our 
police officers need every day.
    It's about saying ``no'' when a disgraced former President 
calls for defunding the FBI or certain Members threaten to cut 
off funding for DHS because they have political disagreements 
with the Biden administration.
    It's about keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of 
those who would seek to harm our communities, our kids, our 
houses of worship, our supermarkets, our gathering places, and 
the police sworn to protect all of us.
    It's about honoring the heroic law enforcement officers--
Capitol Police, Metropolitan Police, and others--who protected 
and defended this very Capitol and everyone in it on January 6, 
2021.
    While extreme MAGA Republicans try to cut funding and 
undermine public trust in law enforcement, Democrats are 
committed to providing Federal, State, local, Tribal, and 
territorial law enforcement with funding and support to keep 
our communities safe.
    Democrats have made historic investments in public safety, 
law enforcement, school security, gun violence prevention, and 
nonprofit security for churches, synagogues, and schools. As a 
result, violent crime has dropped across nearly every category 
during the Biden administration.
    We're proud of doing right by law enforcement, but 
recognize more remains to be done. I hope to hear from our 
witnesses today about supporting community policing efforts 
across the country and how Congress can help fund these 
critical efforts.
    I also hope to hear from our witnesses about how we can 
encourage police forces to recruit more diverse candidates, 
including people of color and women, because police forces work 
best when they reflect the communities they serve.
    Again, I thank the witnesses for joining us today and 
express my appreciation for all the men and women of law 
enforcement who serve communities across America with honor and 
integrity. Be assured that those words have been and will 
continue to be backed up by action.
    Before I close, Mr. Chairman, I want to take a moment to 
welcome, as you did, a new Member of our committee, the 
gentleman from New York, Mr. Kennedy.
    While we have quite a few New Yorkers serving on this 
panel, as has already been said, Mr. Kennedy is the only one 
that represents a district in western New York. His district is 
located on the U.S.-Canada border and has multiple 
international crossings, including the Peace Bridge. I know he 
will be actively engaged on northern-border issues, and we 
welcome it.
    Mr. Kennedy also recently chaired the New York State 
Senate's Transportation Committee, which will be invaluable to 
his service on this committee's Transportation and Maritime 
Subcommittee.
    We welcome you, and we wish you well.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Thompson follows:]
    
             Statement of Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson
             
                              May 15, 2024
                              
    I want to thank our panel of witnesses for being here today and for 
their service to our country. In honor of National Police Week, I also 
want to recognize the incredible contributions of law enforcement and 
honor those brave officers who have made the ultimate sacrifice to keep 
our communities safe. Our Nation is forever in their debt.
    Today, the committee is meeting to examine how Congress can support 
State and local law enforcement. This is an important question. 
National Police Week is of great importance, but Congressional support 
for law enforcement is about more than attending a ceremony or wearing 
a blue ribbon on your lapel one week out of the year.
    It's about supporting law enforcement not just with ceremonial 
words or symbolic gestures but showing up when it counts and voting for 
the resources our police officers need every day.
    It's about saying no when a disgraced former President calls for 
defunding the FBI or certain Members threaten to cutoff funding for DHS 
because they have political disagreements with the Biden 
administration.
    It's about keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of those who 
would seek to harm our communities, our kids, our houses of worship, 
our supermarkets, our gathering places, and the police sworn to protect 
all of us. And it's about honoring the heroic law enforcement 
officers--Capitol Police, Metropolitan Police, and others--who 
protected and defended this very Capitol and everyone in it on January 
6, 2021.
    While extreme MAGA Republicans try to cut funding and undermine 
public trust in law enforcement, Democrats are committed to providing 
Federal, State, local, Tribal, and territorial law enforcement with 
funding and support to keep our communities safe. Democrats have made 
historic investments in public safety, law enforcement, school 
security, gun violence prevention, and non-profit security for 
churches, synagogues, and schools. As a result, violent crime has 
dropped across nearly every category during the Biden administration. 
We are proud of doing right by law enforcement but recognize more 
remains to be done.
    I hope to hear from our witnesses today about supporting community 
policing efforts across the country and how Congress can help fund 
those critical efforts. I also hope to hear from our witnesses about 
how we can encourage police forces to recruit more diverse candidates, 
including people of color and women, because police forces work best 
when they reflect the communities they serve.
    Again, I thank the witnesses for joining us today and express my 
appreciation for all the men and women of law enforcement who serve 
communities across America with honor and integrity. Be assured that 
those words have been and will continue to be backed up by action.

    Chairman Green. Thank you, sir.
    Other Members of the committee are reminded that opening 
statements may be submitted for the record.
    [The statement of Hon. Jackson Lee follows:]
    
               Statement of Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee
                              
                              May 15, 2024
                              
    Chairman Green and Ranking Member Thompson, thank you for this 
hearing on ``Standing Strong on the Thin Blue Line: How Congress Can 
Support State and Local Law Enforcement''.
    I thank today's witnesses for their testimony:
   Hon. Gregory Mays, deputy commissioner, Department of Safety 
        and Homeland Security, State of Tennessee;
   Hon. Michael L. Chapman, sheriff, Loudoun County, Virginia;
   Mr. Michael Bullock, president, Austin (TX) Police 
        Association; and
   Mr. Rodney Bryant, president, National Organization of Black 
        Law Enforcement Executives *Democratic Witness*.
    As the Ranking Member of the Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on 
Crime and Federal Government Surveillance, I have a body of legislative 
work that informs me on this topic.
    Annually Congress hosts National Police Week to recognize the 
important work of local, State, and Federal law enforcement in 
protecting communities and to honor those who gave the last full 
measure of devotion to the communities they served.
    This year, National Police Week runs from May 12 to May 18, 2024.
    This hearing is an opportunity to demonstrate our support for law 
enforcement and highlight their priorities and accomplishments around 
strengthening public safety, combatting gun violence, and funding 
community safety programs.
    This should be a time of unity and a rededication of our commitment 
to law enforcement officers--to make every effort to make their work 
safer and promote the importance of law enforcement as public servants.
    Unfortunately, Republicans talk about supporting law enforcement 
but have sought to defund law enforcement and undermine public trust in 
police.
    Law enforcement is on the front line of fighting crime in 
communities across the Nation.
    Crime rates after rising sharply during the Ronald Reagan and 
George H.W. Bush administrations, violent crime in the United States 
has plummeted to a near-record low under President Joe Biden.
    In fact, the most recent FBI data show that crime in the United 
States has dropped across nearly every category under President Biden's 
leadership.
    The Biden administration and Congressional Democrats have 
prioritized investments in fighting and preventing crime, most notably 
through the American Rescue Plan's (Pub. L. 117-2) record $15 billion 
funding for public safety.
    Every Republican serving in Congress at the time voted against the 
American Rescue Plan.
    Despite Republican opposition to that landmark law and Republican 
calls to defund the police, Democratic investments in public safety 
have delivered results. Murders across the United States dropped by 
13.2 percent between 2022 and 2023.
    In America's largest cities--those with populations greater than 1 
million--violent crime dropped by 10.6 percent.
    The vast majority of homicides in this country are committed with 
firearms, as are the vast majority of suicide deaths. Although murders 
in the United States plummeted by around 13 percent in 2023--one of the 
largest national declines in history--gun violence continues to plague 
the United States.
    In 2020, the last year of the Trump administration, 19,613 
Americans lost their lives due to the willful, malicious, or accidental 
discharge or a firearm. In 2023, that number dropped to 18,854, but gun 
deaths remain far too high. This is especially true in ``Red States'' 
that tend to have weak gun laws.

        red states, weak gun laws, and danger to law enforcement

    Weak gun laws endanger law enforcement officers.
    Between 2012 and 2021, 504 police officers in the United States 
were killed in the line of duty. Of those, 90 percent--or 456 
officers--were killed by a firearm.
    A study by the Center for American Progress found that between 2017 
and 2021, the rate of police officers fatally shot in States with the 
weakest gun laws was 152 percent higher than in States with stronger 
gun laws.
    Weak gun laws make everyone less safe. From 2000 to 2022, the 
average murder rate in States that reliably vote Republican in 
Presidential elections (''Red States'') was 24 percent higher than the 
average murder rate in States that reliably vote Democratic.
    In fact, so-called Red States' murder rates are ``significantly 
higher'' than reliably Democratic-voting States, ``even when 
[researchers] removed the county with the largest city in Trump-voting 
States (and kept them in for Biden-voting States).''
    Weakening requirements to carry a concealed firearm increases gun 
violence and violent crime.
    Every State allows individuals to carry concealed weapons in 
public, but fewer than half of them require a permit.
    Specifically, by the start of 2023, 26 States allowed individuals 
to carry loaded, concealed handguns in public without first undergoing 
a background check, obtaining a license, or receiving any firearm 
training.
    It is important to note that gun-involved homicide rates are higher 
in States with more permissive concealed carry laws.
    Permitless carry laws, like those in Texas, pushed by Republican 
State legislatures put law enforcement officers at risk.
    When Indiana was considering a permitless carry bill in 2022, 
Patrick Flannelly, vice president of the Indiana Association of Chiefs 
of Police warned, ``What we have done now is we've taken away the one 
tool that police officers had out on the street to be able to act 
quickly and efficiently for not only their personal safety but for the 
safety of our communities''.
    Law enforcement across the country similarly have warned that 
permitless concealed carry laws put officers at risk.
    In fact, in 2021, almost 61 of 84 law enforcement officers who died 
from felonious assaults were killed by firearms. Reliably Republican-
voting States that have permissive gun laws, specifically permitless 
carry laws, are putting law enforcement officers' lives on the line by 
sending them into communities that are increasingly flush with 
firearms.
    
    democrats back up their support for law enforcement with needed 
                               resources
    
    Although Republicans claim they support law enforcement, Democrats 
have implemented policies and reforms that will keep law enforcement 
and the communities they serve safer and more secure--often over 
Republican objections.
    In June 2021, the Biden administration unveiled its Comprehensive 
Strategy to Prevent and Respond to Gun Crime and Ensure Public Safety. 
Overall, the strategy sought to:
   stem the flow of firearms used to commit violence, including 
        by holding rogue firearms dealers accountable for violating 
        Federal laws;
   support local law enforcement with Federal tools and 
        resources to help address summer violent crime;
   invest in evidence-based community violence interventions;
   expand summer programming, employment opportunities, and 
        other services and supports for teenagers and young adults; and
   help formerly incarcerated individuals successfully reenter 
        their communities.
    On June 25, 2022, President Biden signed into law the Bipartisan 
Safer Communities Act (BSCA). The BSCA was passed in the wake of the 
shooting in Uvalde, Texas, the State's deadliest school shooting, where 
19 children and 2 teachers were killed. Key provisions of the BSCA 
include:
    Enhanced background checks: Requires the National Instant Criminal 
Background Check System (NICS) to conduct an enhanced review of 
purchasers under the age of 21 to determine whether juvenile records 
disqualify that individual from purchasing a firearm.
    NICS is given 10 days to complete the investigation, and it unsets 
after 10 years.
    State incentives for ``red flag'' laws: Provides $750 million over 
5 years that will go to States for ``crisis intervention programs'' 
including red flag laws, mental health courts, drug courts, veterans' 
courts, and extreme risk protection orders.
   $250 million in funding for community-based violence 
        prevention initiatives
   $300 million in school safety funding through the STOP 
        School Violence Act to institute safety measures in and around 
        schools, support school violence prevention efforts, and 
        provide training to school personnel and students.
    Codification of the SchoolSafety.gov clearinghouse, which provides 
evidence-based resources to improve school safety.
    Prohibits use of funds under the Elementary and Secondary Education 
Act to train or equip any person with dangerous weapons in schools.
    
    congress must act to address the law enforcement staffing crisis
    
    As the Ranking Member of our Crime Subcommittee, I am in support of 
H.R. 3325, the Recruit and Retain Act.
    This legislation will help law enforcement agencies in tangible 
ways by providing them with tools to help address the high rates of 
attrition that have plagued these agencies for years.
    Our Nation's law enforcement agencies are facing an unprecedented 
staffing crisis.
    Hiring efforts have been unable to keep pace with the high rates of 
attrition that we are seeing in police departments from coast to coast, 
and everywhere in between.
    According to a report last year by the Bureau of Justice Assistance 
and the Office of Community-Oriented Policing, factors such as 
community frustration with the policing profession, and concerns about 
officer safety and well-being, have contributed to this staffing 
crisis.
    It is unsurprising, then, that a 2023 survey of police departments 
showed that resignations have continued to increase every year since 
2019, with responding agencies reporting nearly 50 percent more 
resignations in 2022 than in 2019.
    In my district in Houston, Texas, the problem goes back even 
further.
    We recently learned that staffing shortages resulted in over 
264,000 cases--including 4,000 sexual assault cases--were never 
submitted for investigation, due to staffing shortages.
    We cannot allow this to continue. Our communities deserve more. 
Victims deserve more.
    The Recruit and Retain Act will attempt to remedy this problem by 
authorizing law enforcement agencies to use COPS grants to reduce the 
numerous fees that law enforcement applicants must pay. We will not get 
qualified men and women in uniform if they cannot afford to even apply 
to a police department.
    The Recruit and Retain Act also will encourage voluntary 
partnerships between agencies and local elementary schools, secondary 
schools, and institutions of higher learning, including historically 
black colleges and universities, for students interested in careers in 
law enforcement.
    Partnership activities will include dedicated programming for 
students; work-based learning opportunities; mentoring; community 
liaisons; career and jobs fairs; job shadowing; and internships.
    These activities will help law enforcement agencies recruit 
talented applicants who reflect and respect the communities they serve. 
This, in turn, will help earn back the trust of those communities--
making all of us safer.
    I would prefer for this bill to include the minimum qualification 
and training standards that the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act 
would require.
    I also think we must do more to address the mental health 
challenges that officers inevitably face, due to the harrowing nature 
of their work.
    We cannot expect qualified officers to remain in such a dangerous 
profession if we do not give them the resources they need to address 
the toll that police work takes on them.
    We cannot wait any longer to address the law enforcement staffing 
crisis.
    We must act now to help police departments across the country 
recruit and retain the officers they need to keep our communities safe.
    I invite my colleagues across the aisle to join me in this effort 
to support local and State law enforcement.
    Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time.

    Chairman Green. I'm pleased to have an important panel of 
witnesses before us today.
    I ask that our witnesses please rise and raise their right 
hand.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Chairman Green. Let the record reflect that the witnesses 
have answered in the affirmative.
    Thank you. You may be seated.
    I'd like to now formally introduce our witnesses.
    The Honorable Gregory Mays serves as the deputy 
commissioner of homeland security for the Tennessee Department 
of Safety and Homeland Security. Prior to his appointment, Mr. 
Mays had a distinguished career with the United States Secret 
Service, serving in a variety of roles that spanned a 25-year 
career.
    He holds a bachelor's degree from Auburn University, where 
he received his commission as an officer in the United States 
Navy through the Navy ROTC program. Following Naval flight 
officer training, Mr. Mays was assigned to Patrol Squadron 
FIVE, where he was designated a patrol plane mission commander 
and completed multiple deployments, including numerous missions 
in support of Operation Desert Storm.
    Sheriff Mike Chapman was first elected chair for Loudoun 
County, Virginia, in 2011 and was reelected to his fourth term 
in 2023. He directs the largest full-service sheriff's office 
in the Commonwealth of Virginia and employs approximately 700 
sworn deputies and 200 civilian personnel and serves a 
population of approximately 447,000 residents and an area of 
519 square miles.
    Sheriff Chapman has been a leader in advancing proactive 
and successful law enforcement and community engagement 
programs. During his tenure, major crime decreased 37 percent, 
the greatest reduction of any jurisdiction in the Washington 
metropolitan area. He has also successfully led efforts in 
addressing the heroin and, most recently, fentanyl problems 
that have impacted Loudoun County.
    Mr. Michael Bullock currently serves as the president of 
the Austin Police Association. During his time as president, he 
has worked to address the recruiting and retention problems 
that have affected the Austin Police Department. President 
Bullock is a 6-year veteran of the Austin Police Department.
    Mr. Rodney Bryant serves as the president of the National 
Black Law Enforcement Executives. Prior to his work with the 
National Black Law Enforcement Executives, Mr. Bryant served 34 
years in the Atlanta Police Department.
    During his career, he climbed the ranks, serving as a 
patrol officer, senior police, sergeant, lieutenant, assistant 
commander, and major. Highlights of his career include leading 
the command of the College Football Playoff Championship in 
2018 and Super Bowl LIII in 2019. He retired in 2022 as the 
25th chief of the department.
    I thank all of the witnesses for being here today.
    I now recognize Deputy Commissioner Mays for 5 minutes to 
summarize his opening statement.

     STATEMENT OF GREGORY MAYS, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER OF
      HOMELAND SECURITY, TENNESSEE DEPARTMENT OF SAFE-
      TY AND HOMELAND SECURITY

    Mr. Mays. Thank you, Chairman Green and Ranking Member 
Thompson, for holding this hearing and for the invitation to 
testify with my fellow law enforcement leaders on some of the 
critical law enforcement and security issues facing the 
American homeland.
    The Tennessee Office of Homeland Security is a law 
enforcement agency with State-wide jurisdiction. Our primary 
mission is to investigate threats to life, threats to our 
schools, to protect our State's critical infrastructure and 
major events, and to work with our Federal, State, and local 
partners to prepare for and mitigate any threat to our State.
    Our department's overall mission is to serve, secure, and 
protect the people of Tennessee, and we set about every day to 
accomplish that mission.
    As we gather here today during National Police Week to 
honor the fallen police officers across our Nation, it's also a 
time for us to discuss--or, to focus on the challenges faced by 
local law enforcement and the threats to our homeland.
    My testimony will focus on three areas to highlight some 
successes and challenges. I thank you again for the opportunity 
to be here.
    I would like to start with security in our schools.
    On March 27, 2023, Nashville was rocked by a shooting at 
The Covenant School. Three children and 3 adults lost their 
lives, in addition to the shooter, who was killed by police 
while she was still shooting at arriving officers from a 
second-story window of the school. This shooting, so close to 
home, further steeled our resolve to do everything we can to 
prevent something similar from happening again.
    We approach school security in Tennessee by focusing on 3 
main areas:
    Physical security--door locks, et cetera. Sometimes the 
simple solutions are the best.
    Second, we must have proper response and training so that 
our officers respond properly, just as the Metro Nashville 
Police Department did at the Covenant shooting.
    Third--perhaps the most complex--we must investigate every 
credible threat and evaluate the subject's capability and 
intent to act violently.
    Research such as the U.S. Secret Service's National Threat 
Assessment Center study published in 2021 titled ``Averting 
Targeted School Violence'' looked at 67 different averted 
school attacks. Ninety-four percent of the school shooters told 
somebody they were going to do it. The other 6 percent in that 
study were behaving so oddly that someone else reported them.
    So we can take away from that that, in all cases, we, the 
collective community, need to have our ears turned and be 
listening and then respond when threats come to our schools.
    We encourage this type of reporting, and the Tennessee 
Office of Homeland Security operates a 24/7 threat desk. Since 
the start of this school year, we have received approximately 
322 threats to Tennessee schools. That amounts to a little over 
one threat to a Tennessee school every day.
    In the interest of time here, I'd like to pivot now to the 
subject of grants.
    Tennessee has benefited greatly from our Federal Homeland 
Security Grant Program. Funding for these State and territorial 
preparedness grants has dropped 44 percent since fiscal year 
2010, with a 10 percent cut alone in fiscal year 2024.
    We rely on these programs--State and local law enforcement 
do. These grant programs save lives.
    As an example, on July 31, 2023, a suspect attempted to 
gain entry to the Margolin Hebrew Academy in Memphis with the 
apparent intent to kill those inside this Jewish school. After 
unsuccessful attempts to gain entry through locked doors, the 
subject fired shots outside the school and fled. He was 
encountered by police a short distance away and was taken into 
custody after brandishing a weapon.
    The school credited the recent security upgrades as saving 
lives. They wrote a letter to my office, and I want to read 
just a couple of sentences from it.
    ``The implementation of the latest security grant''--and 
he's talking about the Nonprofit Security Grant from DHS--``The 
implementation of the latest security grant allowed us to 
reinforce our entrances with new doors and access control, 
ultimately preventing the shooter from gaining entry. 
Additionally, the cameras installed from the previous grant 
played a pivotal role in assisting law enforcement in locating 
and neutralizing the shooter swiftly.''
    Again, these grant funds save lives. As Federal funding for 
these programs decline, the needs are increasing.
    In Tennessee, we do not rely just on Federal funding for 
the nonprofit grants; we have a State-funded program. As an 
illustration of how much of a need there is, last year we 
received $2.2 million in requests, far outstripping the 
$750,000 in State funds that I had to award.
    In the interest of time, sir, I'll conclude my testimony 
there. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Mays follows:]
    
                   Prepared Statement of Gregory Mays
                   
                              May 15, 2024
                              
    Thank you, Chairmen Green, and Ranking Member Thompson for holding 
this hearing and for the invitation to testify with my fellow law 
enforcement leaders on some of the critical law enforcement and 
security issues facing the American homeland.
    The Tennessee Office of Homeland Security is a law enforcement 
agency with State-wide jurisdiction. Our primary mission is to 
investigate threats to life, threats to our schools, protect our 
State's critical infrastructure and major events, and to work with our 
Federal, State, and local partners to prepare for and mitigate any 
threats to our State. Our Department's overall mission is to serve, 
secure, and protect the people of Tennessee. We set about every day to 
accomplish our mission in several ways:
   Homeland Security employs a cadre of Homeland Security 
        special agents across the State--at least 1 in each of our 95 
        counties. These law enforcement officers focus on threats to 
        our schools and critical infrastructure and regularly conduct 
        behavioral-based threat assessments. Our Homeland Security 
        special agents come from varied backgrounds and bring a depth 
        and breadth of experience to their mission to serve and protect 
        Tennesseans.
   Homeland Security partners with the Tennessee Bureau of 
        Investigation to co-direct the Tennessee Fusion Center--a team 
        effort of local, State, and Federal law enforcement, in 
        cooperation with the citizens of the State of Tennessee, for 
        the timely receipt, analysis, and dissemination of terrorism 
        information and criminal activity relating to Tennessee.
   Homeland Security helps to facilitate the distribution of 
        Federal grant funding every year from the DHS Homeland Security 
        Grant Program. Since inception in 2003, DHS has seen over $280 
        million come to Tennessee and go toward projects designed to 
        make Tennesseans more secure. I'll speak more about these 
        grants in a moment.
   Tennessee Homeland Security maintains a cybersecurity 
        expertise focused on Homeland Security issues at the State and 
        local level by providing training and assisting in responses to 
        cyber-related incidents.
   Tennessee Homeland Security maintains a close watch on our 
        State's Critical Infrastructure. DHS has designated 16 
        different Critical Infrastructure sectors ranging from Energy 
        to Financial to Agriculture to Transportation. All these 
        sectors are vital to our State. We work with law enforcement 
        and our stakeholders to determine vulnerabilities and mitigate 
        the threat.
   And last, but certainly not least, Tennessee Homeland 
        Security partners with local law enforcement, the Tennessee 
        Department of Education, local school districts, the mental 
        health community, juvenile court systems, and communities 
        around the State to keep our children safe by helping to 
        develop and conduct security assessments at our State's K-12 
        public schools and investigate threats before they materialize 
        on the school's doorstep.
    As we gather here today during National Police Week to honor the 
fallen peace officers across our Nation, it is also a time for us to 
focus on the challenges faced by law enforcement and the threats to our 
homeland. My testimony will focus on 3 areas to highlight some 
successes and challenges. Thank you again for the opportunity to be 
here.
    I would like to start with security in our schools. On March 27, 
2023, Nashville was rocked by a shooting at the Covenant School. Three 
children and 3 adults lost their lives in addition to the shooter who 
was killed by police while she was still shooting at arriving officers 
from a second story window of the school. This shooting so close to 
home further steeled our resolve to do everything we can to prevent 
something similar from happening again.
    We approach school security in Tennessee by focusing on 3 main 
areas of concern:
   First, physical security such as door locks, cameras, 
        barriers, access control procedures--sometimes a simple 
        solution works best.
   Second, proper response protocols must be in place and 
        exercised. If a tragic event does happen, law enforcement must 
        be trained to respond appropriately and stop the killing. 
        School students and administrators must be trained and have a 
        plan to shelter in place or evacuate as appropriate. All these 
        plans must be exercised regularly--a new State law in Tennessee 
        requires it. We saw in the Covenant shooting the rapid and 
        professional response of officers from the Metro Nashville 
        Police Department. There is no doubt the bravery and rapid 
        response of the officers saved lives that horrible day.
   The third focus of concern is perhaps the most complex. We 
        must investigate every credible threat and evaluate the 
        subject's capability and intent to act violently. Research such 
        as the U.S. Secret Service's National Threat Assessment Center 
        study published in 2021, titled ``Averting Targeted School 
        Violence'' looked at 67 averted school attacks. The study found 
        94 percent of school shooters told someone they were going to 
        do it. The other 6 percent in the study were behaving so oddly 
        that bystanders reported them. So, in all these cases, we see 
        that law enforcement officers, educators, mental health 
        counselors, and concerned community members must be listening 
        and ready to report and act on any threatening behavior or 
        statements.
    The Office of Homeland Security partners with schools to encourage 
this type of reporting. Of course, some kids feel more comfortable 
communicating electronically. So, In Tennessee, we instituted the 
SafeTN App to allow students (or members of the community) to 
anonymously report threatening behavior. The app also provides 
resources for anyone contemplating suicide or self-harm. The Tennessee 
Office of Homeland Security operates a 24/7 threat desk where these 
incoming calls for help or action are acted upon immediately.
    As I mentioned earlier, the Governor of Tennessee proposed, and the 
TN General Assembly funded, a Homeland Security Special Agent in each 
of Tennessee's 95 counties to help coordinate the multi-agency approach 
to school security and to conduct these behavioral-based threat 
investigations.
    Tennessee's local law enforcement officers play a critical role in 
school safety by acting as School Resource Officers (SROs). Last year, 
the Governor proposed, and General Assembly provided, funding to place 
1 SRO in each of Tennessee's K-12 public and charter schools. This 
grant funding is managed by the Office of Homeland Security and is 
available directly to law enforcement agencies to hire, train, and 
equip law enforcement officers to serve in the important SRO role. Of 
the $140 million allocated on July 1, 2023:
   Over $101 million has been awarded upfront for salary, 
        benefits, training, and equipment.
   154 law enforcement agencies applied and were funded.
   1,356 schools are covered by this State grant.
   As of 3/31/24, 1,309 of 1,356 schools were staffed with an 
        SRO (97 percent).
    Is this approach to school security working? Although we don't 
claim to have solved the issue of school security, we are seeing 
positive results. For example, in the fall of 2023, Homeland Security 
agents, working with local Sheriff's Deputies, began an investigation 
of a student who had come to school in full tactical gear and made a 
bomb threat. The investigation indicated that subject had a fascination 
with the military, weapons, and explosives and that he also fantasized 
about killing people. Further investigation revealed the subject owned 
several knives and smoke grenades. Information was discovered that 
revealed the subject was frequently a victim of bullying by other 
students. A search warrant of the subject's cell phone showed evidence 
of making threats of being a terrorist, a member of the Taliban, 
conducting a school shooting, and shooting police. The subject 
underwent a court-ordered mental evaluation where he was determined to 
have homicidal tendencies. The subject was admitted to a mental health 
facility for further evaluation and care.
    We work a significant number of cases just like this one. Since the 
beginning of this academic year--approximately August 1, 2023--the 
Office of Homeland Security has logged over 322 threats to schools in 
Tennessee--or more than one threat to a school every day. And this 
number reflects only those threats which are known to us--either 
reported through our reporting mechanisms or reported by schools 
directly to us, or reported by local, State, or Federal agencies to us. 
We do not know the actual total number of school threats in the State 
because the local schools and law enforcement agencies are not required 
to report them to us. The problem is big.
    Nothing is more important than the safety and security of our 
children. Law enforcement will continue to prioritize the security of 
our schools.
    I would now like to pivot to the subject of grants. Tennessee has 
benefited greatly from the Federal Homeland Security Grant Program 
since its inception in 2003. As you know, 3 individual grant programs 
make up the Federal Homeland Security Grant Program:
   State Homeland Security Program (SHSP)
   Urban Area Security Initiative (UASI)--Nashville area only
   Operation Stone Garden (for border States).
    Federal funding for these State and territorial preparedness grant 
programs (SHSP, UASI, and Operation Stone Garden) has dropped 44 
percent since fiscal year 2010--including a 10 percent cut alone for 
fiscal year 2024.
    These programs that States and territories rely on for homeland 
security funding have all seen declines. On top of the decline in 
aggregate dollar amounts, given inflation, the purchasing power of each 
dollar provided has dropped more than 20 percent since 2014.
    These grant programs are a very worthwhile endeavor and we have had 
much success responding to man-made and natural disasters because of 
them. For example, in the immediate aftermath of the Nashville 
Christmas Day bombing in 2020, which damaged a piece of critical 
infrastructure and shut down 9-1-1 communications centers in the 
region, equipment acquired through the HSGP such as command posts, 
alternate communications equipment, rescue equipment, and training for 
responders was deployed and aided in the Response and Recovery efforts. 
With much of the equipment acquired through this program at the local 
level, it has served multiple functions for man-made and natural 
disasters and has created enduring capabilities in all of Tennessee's 
95 counties.
    Another very important Federal grant program is the Nonprofit 
Security Grant Program (NSGP). This program provides support for target 
hardening and other physical security enhancements for nonprofit 
organizations that are at high risk of a terrorist attack. In 
Tennessee, requests for funding under this program have skyrocketed 
from 10 applicants in 2019 to 103 applicants last year--a ten-fold 
increase. This year's application process is currently open and 
expected to see increases in applicants from last year.
    These grant funds have saved lives.
    On July 31, 2023, a suspect attempted to gain entry into the 
Margolin Hebrew Academy in Memphis with the apparent intent to kill 
those inside this Jewish school. After unsuccessful attempts to gain 
entry through locked doors, the subject fired shots outside the school 
and fled. He was encountered by police a short distance away and was 
shot and taken into custody by police after brandishing a weapon. The 
school credited recent security upgrades with avoiding tragedy. 
Specially, the school wrote a letter to my office crediting the 
Nonprofit Security Grant Program (NSGP). The letter read in part,

``I want to take this opportunity to express my deepest gratitude to 
both of you for your invaluable support in securing and administering 
the NSGP for enhancing our security measures. The implementation of the 
latest security grant allowed us to reinforce our entrances with new 
doors and access control, ultimately preventing the shooter from 
gaining entry. Additionally, the cameras installed from a previous 
grant played a pivotal role in assisting law enforcement in locating 
and neutralizing the shooter swiftly.''

    Again, these grant funds save lives. And as Federal funding of 
these programs declines, the needs are increasing.
    In Tennessee, the need to help protect our non-profits and houses 
of worship does not rely on Federal funding alone. The Tennessee 
General Assembly recently allocated money for a new State grant program 
for nonprofits and houses of worship. Like the Federal nonprofit grant, 
we have seen a sharp increase in requests for these limited funds. In 
the fiscal year 2023 State program, we received over $2.2 million in 
requests, far outstripping the $750,000 of State funds we had available 
to award.
    Finally, I'd like to speak briefly about an emerging threat to 
Tennessee and our Nation where we need help from the Federal 
Government. Part of my role as deputy commissioner for homeland 
security is to evaluate the potential for future threats and take 
mitigation measures now to protect Tennessee.
    When I peek over the horizon to anticipate what may be coming, one 
challenge I see is weaponized Unmanned Aerial Systems, or drones. The 
proliferation of drones has become a problem from a security and law 
enforcement perspective. While the Federal Government has taken steps 
to regulate use of drones and to some degree license users, little is 
available for State and local law enforcement in the way of countering 
drones that may be used as a method of attack.
    It's no secret this drone threat is real. Drones can be used to 
smuggle payloads, transport contraband, and carry lethal payloads or 
other weaponized materials. We've seen weaponized drones recently in 
the war in Ukraine, and in attacks on Israel.
    In the United States, we've seen an increasing number of drones in 
sensitive locations. For example, last fall, in 2 higher-profile 
instances, a drone flew over an Ohio State football game, as well as a 
Baltimore Ravens playoff game. In Tennessee, we saw drones flying over 
public gatherings and causing safety concerns for law enforcement 
aircraft in the area.
    Since drones are classified as aircraft by the FAA, only certain 
Federal agencies, including DHS and DOJ, currently have the legal 
authorization to mitigate threats from UAS. While many States have 
taken steps to regulate where drones can be flown, States do not have 
the authorization to mitigate a drone in-flight--they can only monitor 
its flight path and penalize those who fly in prohibited areas.
    I believe the probability of a weaponized drone attack in the 
United States should be a top priority for all of us who hold positions 
of responsibility for the security of our Nation's homeland. I ask this 
committee to prioritize Counter-UAS (C-UAS) for funding and expanded 
cooperation with States in this area.
    I have mentioned several times today the importance of 
partnerships. Law Enforcement in Tennessee and around the country take 
pride in working together to support each other under very difficult 
conditions. These partnerships--which are crucial to success--were 
never more evident to me than on Christmas Day 2020 when a vehicle-
borne explosive device was detonated in downtown Nashville, all but 
destroying a city street. Only a few hours after the explosion, I found 
myself standing in the rubble on 2nd Ave and observing Federal, State, 
and local law enforcement all working together to determine what 
happened and why. The partnerships, information sharing, and 
preparedness funding contributed to quickly identifying the 
perpetrator, confirming he was deceased, and later confirming that he 
acted alone.
    As the deputy commissioner of Tennessee's Office of Homeland 
Security, keeping the people and places in Tennessee safe and secure is 
on my mind every day. Our dedicated group of highly-experienced law 
enforcement and public safety personnel always stand ready to serve, 
secure, and protect the people of Tennessee. But a single law 
enforcement or public safety agency cannot do it alone. We need each 
other. We need the support of the U.S. Congress and the support of the 
American people.
    I thank you once again for the opportunity to be here today.

    Chairman Green. Thank you.
    I now recognize Sheriff Chapman.
    Thank you, sir.

         STATEMENT OF MICHAEL CHAPMAN, SHERIFF, LOUDOUN
                       COUNTY, VIRGINIA

    Sheriff Chapman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, 
and Members of the committee.
    My name is Mike Chapman. I'm the elected sheriff of Loudoun 
County, Virginia. I appreciate being invited to testify at this 
important hearing during this, one of the most important weeks 
of the year for law enforcement.
    Loudoun County sits about 30 miles southwest of Washington, 
DC, and is home to about 450,000 residents.
    I am in my 46th year of law enforcement, having served as a 
police officer and detective in Maryland, 23 years at the Drug 
Enforcement Administration as a special agent from coast to 
coast and in 3 foreign assignments, and over 12 years as an 
elected sheriff of Virginia's largest full-service sheriff's 
office, employing close to 900.
    Prior to being elected sheriff, I served 3 years as a law 
enforcement subject-matter expert with Booz Allen. I bring 
first-hand knowledge of police work, Federal experience, the 
private-sector perspective, and the complexities associated 
with the elected office of sheriff.
    I'm here today on behalf of the National Sheriffs' 
Association and serve as its chair for homeland security and on 
its board of directors.
    I'd like to address today's hearing, ``Standing Strong with 
the Thin Blue Line: How Congress Can Support State and Local 
Law Enforcement.''
    Historically and currently, law enforcement collaborates 
well together regardless if it is a sheriff's office or police 
department. When national law enforcement organizations 
collectively present their concerns and positions, whether in 
support or opposition, to legislation, Congress needs to 
listen.
    Congress's decisions can significantly impede law 
enforcement's service, performance, investigations, or even 
recruiting. Supplying grant money or funding is not the cure-
all. Backing from Congress in all aspects is essential.
    This is National Police Week as America honors the day-to-
day service and sacrifice of our law enforcement community. On 
this day, Peace Officers Memorial Day, we honor those who have 
given their lives in the line of duty. This year, we have 
already witnessed 58 line-of-duty deaths among law enforcement 
officers, with 23 of those by gunfire. Our job is dangerous, 
and we need to help serve and protect our communities and 
ourselves.
    We ask that you recognize how law enforcement has and 
continues to raise the bar. The progress that I have witnessed 
since I was hired to be a police officer back in 1978 when it 
comes to training, professionalism, innovation, and best 
practices is nothing short of amazing. It is important that you 
recognize the progress and publicly show support--your support 
for our profession.
    It is also important that you listen so that you can help 
us do our jobs better.
    Let's start with intelligence gathering and police 
response.
    Currently, there are 80 State or locally-run fusion centers 
in 50 States and U.S. territories. They receive Federal grant 
funding, which accounts for about one-third of the cost of 
operation. There is also Federal, State, and local coordination 
through 6 strategically-placed Regional Information Sharing 
Systems, RISS, centers across the United States.
    Considering that local law enforcement are the boots on the 
ground, it is critical that Federal information flows quickly 
in our direction, even if the information is incomplete.
    The responsibility for this communication and coordination 
primarily falls under the Department of Homeland Security 
Intelligence and Analysis, I&A, and is the only Federal entity 
that is statutorily required to coordinate homeland security 
threat information sharing with State and local law enforcement 
governments throughout fusion centers. Congress should ensure 
that I&A is equipped and empowered to carry out that mission 
effectively.
    In Loudoun County, I experienced a personal case study with 
DHS regarding poor communication, both laterally and with other 
Federal agencies and on-ward to State and local agencies.
    In February 2022, I was made aware of some 1,000 evacuees 
from Afghanistan that would be arriving in Loudoun County in 2 
weeks as part of Operation Allies Welcome following the U.S. 
withdrawal from Afghanistan. This would be the first wave 
during a 6-month period, all to be located at the National 
Conference Center, a dorm-style living facility in a suburban 
residential area of our county next to a middle and a high 
school.
    I immediately reached out to the DHS's chief of staff for 
additional information and to question their lack of 
notification earlier to local law enforcement and our public 
safety partners. We needed to know how well the evacuees were 
vetted, if the local hospital had been contacted, if school 
personnel and community members living within walking distance 
in that community were notified, if any houses of worship had 
been contacted, if language capability services had been 
retained, and how security would be conducted.
    Unfortunately, none of these concerns had been addressed. 
DHS subsequently postponed the resettlement for 2 weeks, still 
not addressing these issues.
    I alerted the public and organized a community stakeholders 
meeting, including dozens of agencies, which led to specific 
assignments and a community forum that, for the most part, 
alleviated the apprehension to this of the community.
    Our local initiative made a huge difference. For the next 6 
months, potential chaos was averted and there were no major 
public safety incidents. This extraordinary effort, however, 
would not have been necessary had DHS communicated an organized 
plan. We hope that this will improve in the future.
    Today, we face a new set of challenges on many of our 
college campuses and cities over matters regarding the Middle 
East. It is critical that we receive timely information from 
DHS to get ahead of the curve.
    We need your help. We need your backing. We need improved 
communication from DHS to our local officers and deputies.
    Thank you again for holding this hearing and for listening.
    [The prepared statement of Sheriff Chapman follows:]
                 
                 Prepared Statement of Michael Chapman
    
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, and Members of the 
committee.
    My name is Mike Chapman, I am the elected Sheriff of Loudoun 
County, Virginia. I appreciate being invited to testify at this 
important hearing during what is one of the most important weeks of the 
year for law enforcement.
    Loudoun County sits about 30 miles southwest of Washington, DC, and 
is home to about 450,000 residents.
    I am in my 46th year of law enforcement, having served as a police 
officer and detective in Maryland, 23 years with the Drug Enforcement 
Administration as a special agent from coast to coast and in 3 foreign 
assignments, and over 12 years as the elected sheriff in Virginia's 
largest full-service sheriffs office employing close to 900. Prior to 
being elected sheriff, I served 3 years as a law enforcement subject-
matter expert with Booz Allen. I bring first-hand knowledge of police 
work, Federal experience, a private-sector perspective, and the 
complexities associated with the elected office of sheriff.
    I am here today on behalf of the National Sheriffs' Association 
(NSA) and serve as its chair for homeland security and on its board of 
directors.
    I'd like to address today's hearing ``Standing Strong on the Thin 
Blue Line: How Congress Can Support State and Local Law Enforcement.'' 
Historically and currently law enforcement collaborates well together, 
regardless if it is a sheriffs' office or police department. When 
national law enforcement organizations collectively present their 
concerns and positions--whether in support or opposition to 
legislation--Congress needs to listen. Congress' decision can 
significantly impede law enforcement's service, performance--i.e. 
investigations or even recruiting. Supplying grant money or funding is 
not the cure-all. Backing from Congress in all aspects is essential.
    This is National Police Week as America honors the day-to-day 
service and sacrifice of our law enforcement community. And on this 
day, Peace Officer Memorial Day, we honor those who have given their 
lives in the line of duty. This year we have already witnessed 58 line-
of-duty deaths among law enforcement officers, with 21 of those by 
gunfire.
    Our job is dangerous, and we need your help to serve and protect 
our communities--and ourselves. We ask that you recognize how law 
enforcement has and continues to raise the bar. The progress I have 
witnessed since I was hired to be a police officer in 1978 when it 
comes to training, professionalism, innovation, and best practices is 
nothing short of amazing. It is important that you recognize this 
progress and publicly show your support for our profession. It is also 
important that you listen so that you can help us do our job better.
    Let's start with intelligence gathering and police response.
    Currently, there are 80 State or locally-run fusion centers in 50 
States and U.S. territories. They receive grant Federal grant funding 
which accounts for about one-third the cost of operation. There is also 
Federal, State, and local coordination through 6 strategically-placed 
Regional and Information Sharing Systems (RISS) centers across the 
United States.
    Considering that local law enforcement are the boots on the ground, 
it is critical that Federal information flows quickly in our direction, 
even if the information is incomplete. The responsibility for this 
communication and coordination primarily falls under the Department of 
Homeland Security (DHS) Intelligence and Analysis (I&A). I&A is the 
only Federal entity that is statutorily required to coordinate homeland 
security threat information sharing with State and local governments 
through fusion centers. Congress should ensure I&A is equipped and 
empowered to carry out that mission effectively.
    In Loudoun County, I experienced a personal case study with DHS 
regarding poor communication, both laterally with other Federal 
agencies, and onward to State and local agencies.
    In February 2022, I was made aware that some 1,000 refugees from 
Afghanistan would be arriving in Loudoun County in 2 weeks as part of 
``Operation Allies Welcome'' following the U.S. withdrawal from 
Afghanistan. This would be the first wave during a 6-month period--all 
to be located at the National Conference Center dorm-style living 
facility in a suburban, residential area of our county next to a middle 
and high school.
    I immediately reached out to the DHS's chief of staff for 
additional information and to question their lack of notification 
earlier to local law enforcement and our public safety partners. We 
needed to know how well were the refugees were vetted, if the local 
hospital had been contacted, if school personnel and community members 
living within walking distance been notified, if any houses of worship 
had been contacted, if language capabilities services been retained, 
and how security would be conducted. Unfortunately, none of these 
concerns had been addressed. DHS subsequently postponed resettlement 
for 2 weeks, still not addressing these issues.
    I alerted the public and organized a community stakeholders' 
meeting including dozens of agencies which led to specific assignments 
and a community forum that, for the most part, alleviated the 
apprehension of the community. Our local initiative made a huge 
difference. For the next 6 months potential chaos was averted, and 
there were no major public safety incidents. This extraordinary effort, 
however, would not have been necessary had DHS communicated an 
organized plan. We hope that this will improve in the future.
    Today we face a new set of challenges on many of our college 
campuses and cities over matters in the Middle East. It is critical 
that we receive timely information from DHS to get ahead of the curve.
    We need your help. We need your backing. We need improved 
communication from DHS to our local officers and deputies. Thank you, 
again, for holding this hearing, and for listening.

    Chairman Green. Thank you, Sheriff Chapman.
    I now recognize Mr. Bullock for 5 minutes to summarize his 
opening statement.

       STATEMENT OF MICHAEL BULLOCK, PRESIDENT, AUSTIN
             POLICE ASSOCIATION, AUSTIN, TEXAS

    Mr. Bullock. Chairman Green, Members of the committee, 
thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today.
    My name is Mike Bullock, and I'm the president of the 
Austin Police Association in Texas as well as a senior police 
officer with the Austin Police Department.
    I wish it were amidst better times that I sat here before 
you today, but the somber week of honoring our fellow law 
enforcement officers killed in the line of duty sets the tone 
for the state of our profession.
    In my view, the state of law enforcement is dire. We all 
recognize that criminal justice, as a whole, is a complex 
policy issue for which no singular solution exists. But if we 
continue to do nothing, the sense of lawlessness being 
perpetuated in urban city centers and across the country will 
only get worse.
    Austin is the 10th-largest city in the United States, with 
a million people living in the capital of Texas. Despite this, 
we don't even make the top 25 list when it comes to staffing. 
We are 700 officers short of where studies done by the city of 
Austin have shown we need to be.
    Our staffing issues can be linked to a few key events, 
though our struggles are shared by agencies all across the 
country.
    In 2017, the Austin City Council unanimously voted against 
a contract with the Austin Police Association, which governs 
the wages, benefits, and working conditions of the men and 
women of the Austin Police Department. As a result, beginning 
in 2018, we have had more officers leave our department each 
year than have joined.
    Compounding this problem, in 2020 was when our city leaders 
defunded our department by $150 million, cut 150 authorized 
positions, and canceled cadet classes, all for the sake of 
political posturing.
    Our staffing has been in a free fall that has led us to a 
vacancy rate of over 30 percent. Little surprise, then, that 
after these decisions and an exodus from the department began, 
a year later our number of homicides nearly doubled. The last 3 
years have been the highest homicide numbers in Austin's 
history.
    Though we are not a border city, the impact of immigration 
policies is felt by us as well. Our city has asked for help 
from the Texas State Troopers, who came for a time and had a 
notable impact on crime by increasing patrol presence. But due 
to the on-going border crisis, they were called away to help 
secure the Texas border and no longer able to help us in 
Austin.
    As a result, in May 2023, teenagers shot and killed a man 
in southeast Austin when attempting to rob him. The reason they 
gave for this heinous crime was they knew State Troopers had 
left Austin and they decided to start committing crime again.
    Adding additional layers of complexity to this issue is a 
lackadaisical attitude toward holding criminals accountable by 
judges and prosecutors, while at the same time seeing those 
same prosecutors target officers, which in turn has encouraged 
criminals to be increasingly violent toward law enforcement.
    Over these same time periods, we have seen a myriad of 
critical incidents take place. Austin has dealt with a serial 
bomber planting improvised explosive devices all across our 
city, killing our residents. We've had numerous mass shootings, 
including one breaking out during one of our largest festivals 
that draws people from all across the country to visit our 
city.
    Most notably on our minds is an incident that took the life 
of one of our own. On November 11, 2023, in the early morning 
hours, our APD SWAT team was called to a residence in southeast 
Austin where an armed subject was barricaded inside the 
residence. He'd already stabbed one of his family members, with 
2 more held hostage inside, and he had shot at officers when 
they had initially responded.
    Fearing for the lives of others inside the residence and 
knowing this vile suspect had already attempted to kill one of 
his own family members and willingly shot at our fellow law 
enforcement officers, our SWAT team went through the door to 
try and save lives.
    After going in, they were met by a hellacious barrage of 
gunfire from the suspect, who was well-armed and wearing body 
armor. While the suspect was ultimately killed, it came at a 
high price. Two of our officers were shot, one of which was 
Officer Jorge Pastore, who paid the ultimate sacrifice.
    Across this country, we now see a law enforcement officer 
shot in the line of duty every 21 hours. This year alone, we've 
had over 145 officers shot, which has been increasing year over 
year.
    Our job is to uphold the Constitution and enforce the laws 
passed by yourselves as well as your State and local 
counterparts. This is a charge that we take seriously and one 
we are willing to sacrifice our lives for.
    I sit here before you today, though, pleading for your 
help. We need help in addressing our staffing needs, support in 
enforcing our laws, providing better training resources, and 
transcending the political rhetoric to end the war on law 
enforcement and restore law and order in our country.
    The trends we see in Austin are not isolated, and if not 
reversed, I fear that lawlessness is all but inevitable.
    Again, thank y'all for your time and for taking up this 
important matter, Mr. Chairman.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bullock follows:]
                 
                 Prepared Statement of Michael Bullock
                 
                              May 13, 2024
                              
    Chairman Green, Members of the committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify before you today. My name is Michael Bullock and 
I'm the president of the Austin Police Association in Texas as well as 
a senior police officer with the Austin Police Department.
    I wish it were amidst better times that I sit here before you 
today, but this somber week of honoring our fellow law enforcement 
officers killed in the line of duty sets the tone for the state of our 
profession.
    In my view, the state of law enforcement is dire. We all recognize 
that criminal justice as a whole, is a complex policy issue for which 
no singular solution exists. But if we continue to do nothing--the 
sense of lawlessness being perpetuated in urban city centers and across 
the country will only get worse.
    Austin is the 10th largest city in the United States with a million 
people living in the capitol of Texas. Despite this, we don't even make 
the top 25 list when it comes to staffing. We're 700 officers short of 
where studies done by the city of Austin have shown we need to be. Our 
staffing issues can be linked to a few key events, though our struggles 
are shared by agencies across the country.
    In 2017 the Austin City Council unanimously voted against a 
contract with the Austin Police Association which governs the wages, 
benefits, and working conditions of the men and women of the Austin 
Police Department. As a result, beginning in 2018 we have had more 
officers leave our department each year than have joined. Compounding 
this problem in 2020 was when our city leaders defunded our department 
by $150,000,000, cut 150 authorized positions, and canceled cadet 
classes all for the sake of political posturing.
    Our staffing has been in a freefall that's led us to a vacancy rate 
of over 30 percent. Little surprise then that after these decisions and 
an exodus from the department began, that a year later our number of 
homicides nearly doubled. The last 3 years have been the highest 
homicide numbers in Austin's history.
    Though we are not a border city, the impact of immigration policies 
is felt by us as well. Our city has asked for help from the Texas State 
Troopers who came for a time and had a notable impact on crime. But due 
to the on-going border crisis they were called away to help secure the 
Texas border and no longer able to help us in Austin. In May 2023, 
teenagers shot and killed a man in southeast Austin when attempting to 
rob him. The reason they gave for this heinous crime, was they knew 
State Troopers had left Austin and decided to start committing crime 
again.
    Adding additional layers of complexity to this issue is a 
lackadaisical attitude toward holding criminals accountable by judges 
and prosecutors, while at the same time seeing those same prosecutors 
target officers, which has in turn encouraged criminals to be 
increasingly violent toward law enforcement.
    Over these same time periods we've seen a myriad of critical 
incidents take place. We have dealt with a serial bomber planting 
improvised explosive devices across our city killing our residents, had 
numerous mass shootings including one breaking out during one of our 
largest festivals, and most notably on our minds is an incident that 
took the life of one of our own. On November 11, 2023 in the early 
morning hours, our APD SWAT team was called to a residence in southeast 
Austin where an armed subject was barricaded inside the residence, had 
already stabbed one of his family members with 2 more inside, and shot 
at officers. Fearing for the lives of others inside the residence and 
knowing this vile suspect had already attempted to kill one of his own 
family members and willingly shot at our fellow APD officers--our SWAT 
team went through the door to try and save lives. After going in they 
were met by a hellacious barrage of gunfire from the suspect who was 
well-armed and wearing body armor. While the suspect was ultimately 
taken out it came at a high price. Two of our officers were shot, one 
of which was Officer Jorge Pastore who paid the ultimate sacrifice.
    Across this country we now see a law enforcement officer shot in 
the line of duty every 21 hours. This year alone we've had over 145 
officers shot which has been increasing year over year.
    Our job is to uphold the Constitution and enforce the laws passed 
by yourselves as well as your State and local counterparts. This is a 
charge we take seriously and one we are willing to sacrifice our lives 
for. I sit here before you today though pleading for your help. We need 
help in addressing our staffing needs, support in enforcing our laws, 
providing better training resources, and transcending the political 
rhetoric to end the war on law enforcement and restore law and order in 
our country. The trends we see in Austin are not isolated--and if not 
reversed, I fear that lawlessness is all but inevitable.

    Chairman Green. Thank you, Mr. Bryant, for your testimony--
or, I'm sorry, Mr. Bullock, for your testimony.
    I now recognize Mr. Bryant for his 5 minutes to summarize 
his opening statement.

     STATEMENT OF RODNEY N. BRYANT, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL
      ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES

    Mr. Bryant. Good morning, Chairman Congressman Mark Green, 
Ranking Member Congressman Bennie Thompson, and committee 
Members.
    I bring you greetings on behalf of the executive board, 
members, and constituents of the National Organization of Black 
Law Enforcement Executives, NOBLE. My name is Rodney Bryant, 
and I am the national president.
    NOBLE serves as the conscience of law enforcement by being 
committed to justice by action. NOBLE has 58 chapters and 
represents over 4,500 members world-wide that consist of chief 
executive officers, command-level law enforcement officials, 
and Federal, State, local, and county law enforcement agencies 
and criminal justice practitioners.
    I have served more than 35 years in the law enforcement 
profession in various positions of increasing responsibilities, 
to include serving as a patrol officer and ascending all ranks 
to become the 25th chief of police of the city of Atlanta.
    It is an honor for NOBLE to provide written testimony on 
the topic of ``Standing Strong on the Thin Blue Line: How 
Congress Can Support Local Law Enforcement.''
    I would be remiss if I did not recognize that this week is 
National Police Week, where we honor and remember those law 
enforcement officers who have made the ultimate sacrifice in 
the line of duty.
    In 2023, approximately 136 officers died in the line of 
duty, representing a 40 percent reduction compared to 2022. 
However, one officer is one too many. NOBLE will continue to 
stand vigilant and in solidarity with law enforcement in an 
effort to reduce the statistics. We invite Congress to join us 
in this ``NOBLE'' pursuit.
    On April 29, our Nation experienced the deadliest attack 
against U.S. law enforcement officers since 2016. An AR-15 
semiautomatic rifle and a 40-caliber handgun were deployed in a 
Charlotte, North Carolina, shooting that resulted in 4 law 
enforcement officers being killed and wounding 4 others.
    I extend heartfelt prayers and condolences to the officers, 
families, agencies, and affected communities.
    NOBLE is very concerned about the level of gun violence in 
the United States and, specifically, the correlation between 
violence and the proliferation of assault weapons and high-
capacity ammunition magazines.
    It is our organization's opinion that violence, 
particularly gun violence, is a public health issue. As with 
all public health issues, it demands a comprehensive, 
nonjudgmental, pragmatic, evidence-based approach to saving 
lives and reducing injuries.
    A positive step toward addressing the level of gun violence 
in our Nation was taken with the passage of the Bipartisan 
Safer Communities Act. NOBLE supported this legislation. The 
bill combined gun safety legislation with mental health and 
school security resources.
    We at NOBLE recommend that, in addition to the Bipartisan 
Safer Communities Act, that Congress, the law enforcement 
profession, and communities across this Nation work to secure 
the passage of bipartisan legislation that, at minimum, will 
address the following: mandate universal background checks, ban 
assault weapons, ban high-capacity magazines, and mandate safe 
gun storage.
    It is NOBLE's belief, and many in our profession, that the 
continued relaxation of gun laws poses a real danger to the law 
enforcement officers and the community. It is my opinion that 
the law enforcement profession is in need of comprehensive 
Federal legislation, such as the George Floyd Justice in 
Policing Act.
    NOBLE did support the Biden administration's Executive 
Order on Advancing Effective, Accountable Policing and Criminal 
Justice Practices to Enhance Public Trust and Public Safety. 
There are key elements in the order that we feel are 
responsible and actionable, such as accountability, work force 
support, use of force, and resources support for mental health 
and behavioral health services.
    Our organization recommends to Congress a bipartisan effort 
to find common ground on a very basic Constitutional right 
within the Fourteenth Amendment: equal protection under the 
law. For many parts of our society, citizens have not felt 
equally protected by a key American institution--law 
enforcement. In many communities of color, the first names of 
unarmed citizens that were killed by officers, who took an oath 
to protect and serve, resonate today and for generations to 
come.
    Last, I appeal to our Congressional leaders on both parties 
to continue to support our Federal law enforcement agencies in 
the areas of funding, public support, and policies that ensure 
that they maintain their readiness.
    It is critical that Federal law enforcement resources are 
available to support State, local, county, and Tribal law 
enforcement agencies. There must be a unified Congressional 
understanding of the importance of ensuring homeland security 
for our Nation, which equates to strengthening all levels of 
public safety.
    On behalf of the National Organization of Black Law 
Enforcement Executives, I thank you for supporting our 
profession and our ability to maintain public safety. Our 
members stand ready to meet the needs of our communities and 
Nation.
    Thank you again for this opportunity to provide testimony.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bryant follows:]
                 
                 Prepared Statement of Rodney N. Bryant
                 
                              May 15, 2024
                              
    Chairman, Congressman Mark Green MD, Ranking Member, Congressman 
Bennie Thompson, and committee Members, I bring you greetings on behalf 
of the executive board, members, and constituents of the National 
Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives--NOBLE.
    My name is Rodney Bryant, and I am the national president. NOBLE 
serves as the conscience of law enforcement by being committed to 
Justice by Action. NOBLE has 58 chapters and represents over 4,500 
members worldwide that consist of chief executive officers and command-
level law enforcement officials from Federal, State, county, municipal 
law enforcement agencies, and criminal justice practitioners.
    I have served more than 35 years in the law enforcement profession 
in various positions of increasing responsibility to include serving as 
patrol officer, senior police, sergeant, lieutenant, assistant 
commander, major, and as the 25th chief of the Atlanta Police 
Department. It is an honor for NOBLE to provide written testimony on 
the topic of ``Standing Strong on the Thin Blue Line: How Congress Can 
Support Local Law Enforcement.''
    I would be remiss if I did not recognize that this week is National 
Police Week where we honor and remember those law enforcement officers 
who have made the ultimate sacrifice in the line of duty. In 2023, 
approximately 136 officers died in the line of duty representing a 40 
percent reduction compared to 2022. However, one officer lost is one 
too many. NOBLE will continue to stand vigilant and in solidarity with 
law enforcement in efforts to reduce this statistic. We invite Congress 
to join us in this ``NOBLE'' pursuit.
    On April 29, our Nation experienced the deadliest attack against 
U.S. law enforcement officers since 2016. An AR-15 semi-automatic rifle 
and a 40-caliber handgun were deployed in a Charlotte, NC shooting that 
resulted in 4 law enforcement officers being killed and wounding 4 
others. I extend heartfelt prayers and condolences to the officers' 
families, agencies, and affected communities. NOBLE is very concerned 
about the level of gun violence in the United States, and specifically 
the correlation between violence and the proliferation of assault 
weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines. It is our 
organization's opinion that violence--particularly gun violence is a 
public health issue. And, as with all public health issues, it demands 
a comprehensive, nonjudgmental, pragmatic, evidence-based approach to 
saving lives and reducing injury.
    A positive step toward addressing the level of gun violence in our 
Nation was taken with the passage of the Bipartisan Safer Communities 
Act. NOBLE supported this legislation. The bill combined gun safety 
legislation with mental health and school security resources.
    Bipartisan Safer Communities Act Highlights:
   Increases funding and improves mental health, school safety, 
        crisis intervention, and anti-violence programs.
   Requires tougher background checks for younger gun buyers, 
        those who are deemed a risk in certain cases, and closes the 
        so-called ``boyfriend loophole,'' barring intimate partners who 
        have been convicted of domestic violence crimes against their 
        significant other from having a gun even if they don't live 
        together.
   We at NOBLE recommend that in addition to the Bipartisan 
        Safer Communities Act, that Congress, the Law Enforcement 
        Profession, and communities across this Nation work to secure 
        the passage of bi-partisan legislation that will at minimum 
        address the following:
     Mandate Universal Background Checks
     Ban Assault Weapons
     Ban High-Capacity Magazines
     Mandate Safe Gun Storage
     Relaxation of Gun Laws such as Permitless Carry which 
            exist in 29 States. It is NOBLE's belief and many in our 
            profession that the continued relaxation of gun laws poses 
            a real danger to law enforcement officers and the 
            community.
     Key Statistics
         2023 Mass Shootings--Approximately 656 Mass Shootings
         Firearms Number No. 1 Killer of Children (ages 1-17)
         In 2023, Firearms-related officer deaths accounted for 
            35 percent of the 136 officers killed in the line of duty.
         Studies have shown that officers are significantly 
            more likely to be fatally shot in States with weaker gun 
            laws and higher levels of gun ownership.
    It is my opinion that the law enforcement profession is in need of 
comprehensive Federal legislation such as the George Floyd Justice in 
Policing Act. NOBLE did support the Biden administration's Executive 
Order on Advancing Effective, Accountable Policing and Criminal Justice 
Practices to Enhance Public Trust and Public Safety. There are key 
elements in the order that we feel are reasonable and actionable such 
as accountability, workforce support, use-of-force, and resource 
support for mental/behavioral health services. Our organization 
recommends to Congress a bi-partisan effort to find common ground on a 
very basic Constitutional right within the 14th Amendment--Equal 
Protection Under The Law. For many parts of our society, citizens have 
not felt equally protected by a key American institution, law 
enforcement. In many communities of color, the first names of unarmed 
citizens that were killed by officers, who took an oath to protect and 
serve, resonate today and for generations to come. Their names are 
Tamir, Eric, Breonna, George, to name a few.
    Last, I appeal to our Congressional leaders of both parties to 
continue to support our Federal law enforcement agencies in the areas 
of funding, public support, and policies that ensure that they maintain 
their readiness. It is critical that Federal law enforcement resources 
are available to support State, county, local, and Tribal law 
enforcement agencies. There must be a unified Congressional 
understanding of the importance of ensuring homeland security for our 
Nation which equates to strengthening all levels of public safety.
    On behalf of the law enforcement leaders and constituents of NOBLE, 
I thank you for supporting our profession and our ability to maintain 
public safety. Our members stand ready to meet the needs of our 
communities and Nation. Thank you again for this opportunity to provide 
testimony.

    Chairman Green. Thank you, Mr. Bryant.
    Members will be recognized by order of seniority for their 
5 minutes of questioning. An additional round of questioning 
may be called after all Members have been recognized.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning.
    First, I'd like to start with Mr. Mays.
    You mentioned, I think, 3, sort-of, avenues of approach, so 
to speak, to use a military term, through which you guys are 
working on school safety. You talk specifically about response 
and training.
    Can you describe some of the training that you're talking 
about and the net effect and where DHS and the Federal 
Government are assisting in that area?
    Mr. Mays. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question.
    We learned--as a Nation, we learned after the Uvalde, 
Texas, school shooting what a bad response looked like. We know 
from these shootings that law enforcement needs to respond and 
go into the school immediately and stop the killing, right?
    We saw in Nashville at the Covenant School shooting, the 
Metropolitan Nashville Police Department officers went in 
immediately. It was interesting for me to find out that most of 
those officers did not know each other and had never trained 
together, but yet their training in the police department, 
under Chief Drake's leadership, was so good that, if you watch 
the body camera video, it looks like they train together every 
day.
    So training works. The procedures that need to be in place 
are now pretty universal through a system called ALERRT. It's 
an active-shooter-response-type training. School resource 
officers are trained in this. Police officers are trained. 
Homeland Security agents in Tennessee are trained in this 
response. We believe that that's a key part of school security.
    But much more important, I think, or just as important as 
the response is not waiting until danger is at the doorstep. As 
I stated in my written testimony about the averted school 
attack study, we hear a lot of information about a planned 
school attack. We must go out and confront that threat and 
determine whether there is capability and intent before it ends 
up on the doorstep of the school.
    Chairman Green. I think FLETC recently came to the State 
and did a little bit of training. Was that helpful? Do you know 
about their trip to Tennessee and what they did?
    Mr. Mays. I do not, Mr. Chairman. I'm not familiar with 
that particular trip.
    Chairman Green. I think they may have worked with THP on 
that.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Bullock, you described the impact of budgets and budget 
cuts and the mass shortage of officers.
    What's the impact on the other officers on the force, you 
know, stress-wise, you know, marriages, things like that, for 
these huge shortages of personnel?
    Mr. Bullock. It takes a tremendous mental toll on officers.
    Just as an example, because of the severe shortages that we 
are experiencing, officers who are assigned as a detective that 
should be investigating major crimes, like homicides, 
robberies, things of that nature, are having to work patrol 
shifts. So they are being sent back to patrol----
    Chairman Green. Wow.
    Mr. Bullock [continuing]. And are diverted away from their 
assigned duties as an investigator in order to take 9-1-1 
calls. So they're having to do that on a regular-rotation basis 
each quarter.
    So that does have a significant impact, as you mentioned, 
on mental health. It has an impact on family life. It adds 
another layer of unpredictability to an already unpredictable 
job.
    So we do see an increase in officers who may have issues at 
home, that may deal with, you know, alcohol use, a variety of 
others things that come as a result of increased stress.
    Chairman Green. What about the rhetoric, sort-of, that 
there's been? It's died down a little bit, but, you know, over 
the--maybe a year or two ago, this whole, you know, ``defund 
the police'' thing, how has that impacted morale of the force 
down at the--as we'd say in the Army, soldier level--but at the 
officer level?
    Mr. Bullock. Yes. For, as you put it, kind-of, for the 
boots on the ground, it has a pretty devastating impact, as 
well, because you feel like you are not valued for what you're 
being asked. You're asked to be willing to give of your life in 
the defense of others, and those who are responsible for 
providing resources to do the job you're being asked to do are 
seemingly pushing you to an unvaluable role. So, from that 
aspect, it does have an impact as well.
    I will say, even though we have seen to a degree some of 
those funds restored, we do see some shell games that get 
played with that nonetheless, where the funding may seemingly 
be restored but yet it's a responsibility that wasn't 
necessarily given back to the department. So we're given the 
funds back, but it's not actually going to areas where we need 
it to go in order to recruit, retain, and provide the resources 
for officers to do their job.
    Chairman Green. Thank you.
    I now yield, and I recognize the Ranking Member for 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
    One of the questions, comments, that ran through everyone's 
opening statement was the threat of violence that occurs in 
this country, and most of those threats have occurred with the 
use of firearms.
    Some of us advocate universal background checks for people 
who own guns. I'm a hunter. I try get in the woods every chance 
I get, and every now and then I get lucky and bring something 
home. But I don't have a problem with whatever the requirements 
are to own that gun. So, you know, I'm a law-abiding gun owner.
    So I'd like to ask each witness their position on universal 
background checks to be able to purchase a gun.
    Mr. Mays.
    Mr. Mays. Thank you, Ranking Member Thompson, for the 
question.
    Whether it's background checks or extreme risk protection 
orders, whatever may be necessary, we would like to keep guns 
out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
    I've spent my career, both in State law enforcement and as 
a Secret Service agent, encountering people who are suffering 
from mental illness, people who are homicidal, people who are 
delusional, and they have guns. We have very little tools 
available to take the weapon away.
    I'm not too worried about law-abiding citizens like 
yourself who go hunting.
    Mr. Thompson. Sure.
    Mr. Mays. It's people who are of limited capacity or have 
bad intentions. This is where the mental health piece and the 
law enforcement piece need to work better together.
    I've encountered people over my career who are admitting to 
me that they're mentally ill and they're depressed, and he's 
holding a pistol in his hand, and I have to call his dad to 
come up and try to talk the guy out of the pistol, to give it 
to his dad, because I have no way to take it away from him.
    Mr. Thompson. Yes----
    Mr. Mays. These are the kind of challenges I have.
    Mr. Thompson [continuing]. I understand. Let me just say 
that what we did for the Federal people in DHS, we passed a 
specific piece of legislation to help with the mental health of 
those people. Because we talked to the family members and other 
people who were distressed.
    Sheriff, can you address that?
    Sheriff Chapman. I have a large agreement with my colleague 
here. I think the biggest problem isn't so much--it's the 
people that are criminals that get the guns. They don't 
necessarily get them, purchase them properly and the way they 
should, with the background checks.
    We do have background checks, obviously, in the 
Commonwealth of Virginia. But I'd have to know the details, 
quite frankly, of exactly what you mean by ``universal 
background check.'' I think a lot of that is already done 
within the Commonwealth of Virginia.
    But my biggest concern is the fact that a lot of these 
weapons are stolen. They're stolen or used in crimes. So you 
can--you know, you can do whatever you want; the fact of the 
matter is, I think we've got to hold these people accountable 
that use guns in crimes and prosecute them to the fullest 
extent of the law, rather than constantly trying to change laws 
that are really only going to impact the honest citizen buying 
a gun. So----
    Mr. Thompson. Well, Sheriff, we won't debate it, but an 
honest citizen can get a gun.
    Sheriff Chapman. Right.
    Mr. Thompson. I'm just saying that if there's a dishonest 
citizen--and it may be 5 percent, 2 percent--that's one of 
those steps we can do to mitigate that.
    Mr. Bullock.
    Mr. Bullock. I'd like to hit on what Sheriff just said, 
which is, a large part of what we deal with is stolen firearms.
    I certainly understand the question about universal 
background checks. Coming from Texas, you know, we definitely 
like our guns as well.
    I think that efforts are probably best spent in holding 
people accountable that are breaking the law very actively, 
including people that are knowingly using stolen firearms.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Bryant.
    Mr. Bryant. Likewise, many of my colleagues, I think that 
universal background checks will assist us in the issues that 
we're seeing.
    In many instances, with the level of proliferation of guns 
that we're seeing on our streets, any aspect that can allow us 
to minimize what we're seeing would be beneficial not just to 
the citizens but to the law enforcement officers as well.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you very much.
    One more question.
    On January 6, thousands of angry supporters, who were 
whipped into a frenzy by the former President, marched on the 
White House to the Capitol, where they broke a police 
barricade, smashed windows, and assaulted police officers in an 
attempt to obstruct the democratic process. Over 140 officers 
protecting the Capitol were injured that day. Five police 
officers died in the days and weeks following.
    Mr. Mays, do you agree that this violence against police 
officers was unjustified?
    Mr. Mays. Absolutely.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you.
    Sheriff.
    Sheriff Chapman. Any violence against police officers doing 
their job should not be--should--should not be allowed in any 
sense of the word. So I agree that anybody should be--that does 
that should be fully prosecuted.
    Mr. Thompson. Mr. Bullock.
    Mr. Bullock. I take the same stance. Anyone that commits 
violence toward law enforcement should not be tolerated.
    Mr. Thompson. Mr. Bryant.
    Mr. Bryant. I agree that any violence against police 
officers lawfully doing their job should not be tolerated.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you.
    I yield back, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Mississippi and the Vice 
Chair of the committee, Mr. Guest, for 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    To our witnesses, thank you for being with us this morning.
    Chief Bryant, before we begin, I was wondering if you could 
give the committee an update, if you have any, on the 3 
officers in Atlanta who were shot over the weekend.
    Mr. Bryant. Absolutely. Thank you so much for inquiring.
    All 3 are in recovery. I spoke to the chief immediately 
after that incident occurred. He has continued to update me as 
a courtesy to inform me that they are improving.
    Thank you so much for asking.
    Mr. Guest. If you will please send along to those officers 
and the members of that department that our thoughts and 
prayers are with them during their period of recovery, and they 
will particularly be remembered this week.
    As we look at the headlines--I pulled some very brief 
headlines in preparation for today's hearing. I just put in in 
the search engine ``officer-involved shooting.''
    One came up: 3 a.m. this morning, ``New Mexico State Police 
and Roswell Police Department investigating an officer-involved 
shooting that left a Roswell police officer injured.''
    A headline from May 12: ``Police identify a man shot dead 
by law enforcement after opening fire in Amazon warehouse.'' 
The article says, ``West Jefferson police have identified a man 
killed by police Sunday. The gunman was fatally shot by law 
enforcement after he shot a Columbus police officer.''
    Also a headline from May 12: ``Euclid police officer dead 
after `ambush' shooting.'' The first paragraph said, ``A first-
year Euclid police officer in his 20's was shot dead Saturday 
night in what authorities describe as an `ambush' after 
officers responded to a disturbance on East 211th Street.''
    We referenced and just spoke of the 3 Atlanta police 
officers who were shot and injured this weekend as they 
responded to a call involving an armed gunman. I think it was 
mentioned in at least one, if not several, of the opening 
statements by the officers of the shooting that happened in 
late April in Charlotte, where we had 4 officers killed and 4 
other officers who were wounded in that particular incident.
    So my question--and I'll start with you, Mr. Mays. Are law 
enforcement officers, are they safer today than they were 3 
years ago?
    Mr. Mays. Thank you for the question.
    That's a tough one to answer. I have a sense that it's 
worse out there on the streets. That's--I don't wear a uniform 
every day, so I get that information from talking to my fellow 
officers----
    Mr. Guest. I'm not asking you to explain why you feel 
``yes'' or ``no,'' but just, you know--and, again, I'm not--I'm 
just asking for your opinion because you're deputy commissioner 
and you're involved every day.
    Do you feel that law enforcement officers are safer today 
than they were 3 years ago, yes or no?
    Mr. Mays. No.
    Mr. Guest. Sheriff.
    Sheriff Chapman. No, I don't. In fact, the FBI just 
reported yesterday that 79,000 law enforcement officers in 2023 
were assaulted, and that's a 10-year high. So what that shows 
is an increase in assaults on law enforcement officers.
    So, to answer your question, whether they're safer, we 
certainly are better well-equipped and can save lives much 
better than we did in the past, but, for sure, they're not as 
safe as they were in the past.
    Mr. Guest. Yes.
    Very quickly, because I've got a couple other questions, 
Mr. Bullock, do you believe officers are safer than they were 3 
years ago?
    Mr. Bullock. No, sir.
    Mr. Guest. Chief, do you believe they're safer than they 
were 3 years ago?
    Mr. Bryant. As we see the increase in violence against 
police officers today, I would have to say no, due to the 
increases.
    Mr. Guest. OK. And thank you for your answers.
    Two of the things I want to focus on, very quickly--and I 
probably will only have the time to focus on one. First is the 
open-border policies that we see.
    I know that was referenced particularly in your testimony, 
Mr. Bullock, about some of the challenges that you're seeing 
because of that. Though not referenced in other testimony, I 
believe that we can say that the open-border policies has put a 
strain on law enforcement.
    But the other thing I want to touch on very briefly is 
rogue prosecutors.
    I know particularly as it relates to you, Mr. Bullock, 
there has been some allegations, in the media, not by you, 
about the prosecutor there in Austin.
    But I want to read this headline and talk on this very 
briefly. This kind-of encapsulates both. This is a CNN article. 
It says, ``7 people indicted in connection with assault on NYPD 
officers outside migrant shelter, officials say.''
    The article--which is dated, for the purpose of the record, 
it's February 8. The article says, ``Seven people have been 
indicted in connection with an assault last month on two New 
York [City] police officers near Times Square, and authorities 
[still] are working to identify three other[s who] were 
involved.''
    ``The indictments come in a case that's drawn attention in 
part because of the [migrant] status of at least some of the 
defendants and because four of those named in the indictment 
were released last week without bail.''
    Are rogue prosecutors--do they pose a risk to law 
enforcement in general? I'll let you answer just ``yes'' or 
``no'' very quickly because I'm over time.
    With that, I will yield back.
    Mr. Mays. Yes.
    Sheriff Chapman. Yes.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman--the gentleman yields.
    Mr. Guest. Well, can they answer the question?
    Chairman Green. Yes, go ahead. Sure.
    Mr. Guest. So if each of you wouldn't mind answering the 
question, then I'll yield back. I apologize for being over 
time.
    Chairman Green. Yep.
    Go ahead, sir----
    Mr. Mays. Yes, sir.
    Chairman Green [continuing]. Briefly.
    Sheriff Chapman. Yes, I agree.
    Mr. Bullock. Absolutely.
    Mr. Bryant. Not just to police, but to the community as a 
whole, yes.
    Mr. Guest. Thank you very much.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. 
Swalwell, the Ranking Member on our Cybersecurity Subcommittee.
    Mr. Swalwell. Police Week is always a bittersweet week in 
Washington, DC. We remember the fallen, those who have given 
their lives in the service of their community over the last 
year, but also it's a time for fellowship and brotherhood and 
sisterhood of the profession to come together in our Nation's 
capital. Just, first, want to honor the service of those who we 
lost last year.
    I want to thank each of you for your service and wanted to 
just go through a couple of different incidents that this 
committee has focused on, or this Congress has focused on, and 
just get your perspective.
    Do you agree, Mr. Mays, that the officers who defended the 
Capitol on January 6 are heroes?
    Mr. Mays. Yes, sir, I would agree.
    Mr. Swalwell. How about you, Sheriff Chapman?
    Sheriff Chapman. Anybody that puts their lives on the line 
to make sure that they're keeping people safe is a hero to me. 
So I would agree that anybody that was assaulted certainly by 
the rioters were heroes.
    Mr. Swalwell. How about you, Mr. Bullock?
    Mr. Bullock. I would stand by the same words; any officer 
that puts on this uniform lawfully their duties is a hero in my 
book.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Bryant.
    Mr. Bryant. I am in concurrence that anybody puts on this 
uniform and honorably serves out their career is a hero. 
Absolutely.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Mays, if you assaulted or physically 
harmed an officer on January 6, does that make you a criminal?
    Mr. Mays. Anyone that assaulted an officer on January 6 and 
then is arrested and convicted is a criminal. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Chapman.
    Sheriff Chapman. An assault on a law enforcement officer is 
a crime. So, yes, that would be a criminal. Mr. Bullock.
    Mr. Bullock. The same.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Bryant.
    Mr. Bryant. I'm in agreement that you become a criminal.
    Mr. Swalwell. By the way, I support legislation on the 
Judiciary Committee that would make assaulting or committing a 
battery against a law enforcement officer a separate class of 
crimes. I hope we can----
    Chairman Green. Will the gentleman yield for just a second?
    Mr. Swalwell. Yes.
    Chairman Green. They do that in Tennessee.
    Mr. Swalwell. Good. We should do it Federally. Thank you, 
Chairman.
    One last question as it relates to January 6. Do you 
believe that anyone who is convicted of harming an officer on 
January 6 is a hostage? If they're in prison for that?
    Mr. Mays. No, sir, I do not.
    Mr. Swalwell. Sheriff.
    Sheriff Chapman. I don't really understand the question.
    Mr. Swalwell. I don't either. Do you believe that calling a 
January 6 convict a hostage is appropriate? That if they're in 
prison that they're a hostage?
    Sheriff Chapman. I would say that anybody that assaulted a 
law enforcement officer that was charged with it and is going 
through their legal processes, the appropriate action is being 
taken.
    Mr. Swalwell. Great. Mr. Bullock.
    Mr. Bullock. Regardless of the event, if someone is charged 
with a crime, all those due process and is convicted, they are 
a convicted criminal, not a hostage.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Bryant.
    Mr. Bryant. I do not consider someone who was arrested for 
assaulting a police officer a hostage.
    Mr. Swalwell. Great. I also just want to point out that 
there are some on this committee, not all, certainly not the 
Chairman, who have advocated for defunding the FBI. Do you 
think we should defund the FBI, Mr. Mays?
    Mr. Mays. No, sir.
    Mr. Swalwell. Sheriff.
    Sheriff Chapman. No, sir. I have a son that is an FBI, so 
no. I want to keep him employed.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Bullock.
    Mr. Bullock. No, sir.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Bryant.
    Mr. Bryant. No. No, sir.
    Mr. Swalwell. So I just want to have some real talk with 
you all and some of my colleagues. Because I'm the son of a 
cop. My brothers are cops. I was a prosecutor. Law enforcement 
for our family is not a career, it's a way of life. It's about 
putting the bad guys away and keeping the community safe. So to 
me when I hear some of my colleagues again, not all of them, 
but some of them on this committee thump their chest and say 
they back the blue. But then they're going to call January 6 
convict a hostage. That's not backing the blue, that's backing 
the coup. When some of them say that they back the blue, but 
the second the blue raids the house of their preferred 
candidate for President, that's not backing the blue, that's 
backing a fool. So I'm all about supporting law enforcement and 
honoring them during Police Week. But we got to be consistent. 
Police don't give a rip about politics. They just want to serve 
the community. They want to be independent and free of 
politics. We should back them every time they do their job, 
expect the highest amount of accountability, but not just 
expect them to wear red team, blue team when it suits them. I 
yield back.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. 
Gimenez, the gentleman from Miami, Florida, for 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you. Thank you very much. I know most of 
you probably know that I was a firefighter for the city of 
Miami. But probably most of you don't know that I was a special 
officer that actually served on the SWAT team of the city of 
Miami Police Department. So while I rode a red fire truck, I 
also every once in a while, especially during difficult times, 
I also rode with the police department. So I honor the 4 of you 
for your service in public safety and the police department.
    When I was the mayor of Miami Dade, I was also the Sheriff 
of Miami Dade. One of the things that I did was after the 
incident in Paris, France, I mandated that all my officers, 
patrol officers, et cetera, will be equipped with AR-15s and 
enhanced body armor. Is that something which is normal in the 
United States, and do you think that we should protect our 
police officers, you know, more? If we are asking them to take 
their lives and put it at risk, should we as a either community 
or a country also give them the protection that they need in 
order to carry out their tasks?
    So I'll ask the 4 of you, is this something normal, or is 
this something a little bit unusual?
    Mr. Mays. Thank you for the question, sir. Protecting law 
enforcement officers is essential, and that comes in the form 
of equipment, including the body armor, the rifles, all the 
weapons, the radios, less than lethal force methods, everything 
they need. It also includes the training, all of it together, 
they need to be properly equipped.
    Mr. Gimenez. But is that normal? Is that--are the officers 
in this country sufficiently protected across the Nation, or is 
that something which is jurisdiction by jurisdiction?
    Mr. Mays. I don't know that I can answer for the entire 
Nation. I can say in the State of Tennessee, it is generally 
jurisdiction by jurisdiction, and it depends on funding.
    Mr. Gimenez. Fair enough.
    Sheriff Chapman. I would agree it's jurisdiction by 
jurisdiction. I served in Miami with the Drug Enforcement 
Administration. So I know how dangerous it was, certainly, 
during the cocaine wars down there. I think we do need to be 
equipped well. We need to be able to define ourselves against 
very violent criminals out there. But that does come down to a 
jurisdictional issue and how those communities feel about how 
the police or law enforcement officers in those areas should be 
equipped.
    Mr. Gimenez. Yes, and I was on a SWAT team during the 
cocaine wars. So, next.
    Mr. Bullock. I would say that's probably not the normal. 
I'd say in Austin, every officer is not equipped with an AR, 
nor are they all certified to use one per se. As well as us 
getting enhanced body armor is not standardized. They'll carry 
it on them all time. It will always be on their person.
    Mr. Gimenez. Would you want that?
    Mr. Bullock. Absolutely.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Bryant.
    Mr. Bryant. Thank you. As a representative of law 
enforcement, not just nationally, but in internationally, I can 
tell you that it goes from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. There 
is not an equal level of distribution, nor an equipment or 
training. So we have to improve upon that nationally.
    Mr. Gimenez. All right. My second question is that Director 
Wray has informed us that because of the openness of the 
border, that he expects or he has apprehensions about a 
possible terrorist attack here in the United States. Because, 
frankly, there is about 2 million people. We haven't the 
faintest idea where they came from, who they are, where they 
are, or why they're here. Do you all have the same kind of 
apprehensions that Director Wray has?
    Mr. Mays. Yes, sir, I do. Very concerned about people 
coming across the Southern Border, and we don't know where they 
are, and we don't know where they're going.
    Sheriff Chapman. That absolutely concerns me, yes.
    Mr. Bullock. I would also agree, we deal with on a regular 
basis, interacting with individuals who have no form of 
identification that we know who they are.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Bryant.
    Mr. Bryant. Yes, we trust the information being provided to 
us by Director Wray, and so I'm in agreement with it.
    Mr. Gimenez. Do you feel that the Federal Government is 
giving you enough in the terms or in the area of intelligence 
to be able to protect your jurisdictions, to the best of your 
ability, in light of the fact that Director Wray leaves that 
there is a great threat to the homeland from terrorists unknown 
to us?
    Mr. Gimenez. Anyone? Go ahead. One at a time.
    Mr. Mays. Yes, sir. We are not getting all of the 
information that would be helpful. We--the Federal Government 
is apparently unable to tell us how many immigrants are coming 
to Tennessee, where they're going in the State, where they came 
from. We don't have that information. We--so if I don't even 
know how many are coming and where they're from, then how can I 
begin to understand what kind of threat they pose to my State.
    Sheriff Chapman. We have a good relationship with the 
Federal counterparts. Any information we get is more at a 
personal, personal contact. But I would say as always, that 
communication could be better.
    Mr. Bullock. We're probably a little bit more different in 
that we have issues with our local officials that tend to try 
to restrict our use of information that is trying to be passed 
on to us; very accessible to us.
    Mr. Bryant. Having a strong relationship with our Federal 
partners is essential to what we do. However, we do recognize 
that there is a level of continuous challenges around 
intelligence and information.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you again for your service, and I yield 
back.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. 
Ivey, the gentleman from Maryland, for his 5 minutes of 
questions.
    Mr. Ivey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank you for calling 
this hearing today. And I appreciate the panel of witnesses as 
well.
    Deputy Commissioner Mays, I was especially impressed with 
your testimony. I thought it was right up the alley of the 
types of things that we can do here on the committee and things 
that we should hear about. Your points about the school 
shootings I thought was very helpful. One thing I did have a 
question about, you mentioned, I think, it was 94 percent, 
there is an opportunity to preempt some of these shootings 
because we have information that somebody's planning on doing 
it, and, you know, 94 percent of the time. I wonder if you can 
elaborate a bit on things that you think we could do, 
especially here in Congress, to help address that.
    Mr. Mays. Thank you for that question. Those study numbers 
are compelling. In the intact, the National Threat Assessment 
Center study that I referenced in my written testimony is not 
the only one. There are multiple studies. Again and again, they 
tell us that most attacks on schools, targeted violence as it 
were, there is a pathway to violence. If we can get involved 
and get the shooter off that pathway to violence, we have a 
chance at stopping something from happening.
    Unfortunately, there's no real shortcut. It's a roll-up-
your-sleeves and get out there and talk to the person and 
intervention. It's a multidisciplinary team approach. I think, 
certainly, the U.S. Congress could help by more funding for 
those type of programs.
    Just last year in Tennessee, the multidisciplinary threat 
assessment approach in each school prior to last year was--it 
was permissive, but not required. A new State law has made that 
a mandate. So part of the Governor's initiative to put a 
Homeland Security agent in each of Tennessee's 95 counties is 
specifically to help coordinate that multidisciplinary approach 
which is needed. I hope that answers your question.
    Mr. Ivey. Yes, it does. It does. I might follow up with you 
afterwards as well. I did want to--actually, I forgot to 
welcome our new Member, Representative Kennedy, from New York. 
I take the Chairman's point that we're close to having a quorum 
for New York delegation meetings here on the committee, but 
certainly welcome you.
    I do want to make a point, too, with you, Mr. Chairman, and 
my colleagues here. I had a chance to go out and visit the 
Secret Service facility, which is in my district where they do 
training. Some of the training they do--and I take the point 
from some of the testimony today about how important training 
can be--so I was quite surprised to see that our Secret Service 
doesn't have a facility for training on protecting the White 
House. So when they took me out to show me what they do, they 
took us to an open field, literally, and they said, imagine the 
tree line at the back is the White House, and the road that 
we're on would be Pennsylvania Avenue. They did the demo, you 
know, with people coming in. You know, the dog went out and 
intercepted them, and all of that. But it was like playing 
pickup football. You know, as a kid, you know, the pine tree is 
the touchdown line. That's what they're doing, actually, to 
prepare for attacks on the White House.
    So one of the things I'd like to ask at some point, we--not 
today, obviously. But I hope that's the kind of thing that we 
can take a look at and try and figure out ways to help them get 
some kind of environment where they can do some training.
    The best they can do right now is--Tyler Perry built a mock 
White House for a movie or something back--so they fly them 
down there and use this mock White House, which obviously isn't 
the same thing as the real thing and certainly wouldn't be the 
kind of place that you'd want to do training to protect the 
President of the United States and the family. But that's what 
they've got right now. So I would love to have a chance to--for 
us to take a look at that as a committee and see if there is a 
way to step up on that front.
    Then, finally, let me end with this, National Police Week--
and I thank the Chairman, again, for holding a hearing on the 
topic. I thank all of you for the service that you provide, the 
risks that you've taken, the sacrifices you and your families 
have made, and for police officers around the country and their 
families as well.
    I was a local prosecutor. I first got elected in 2002. 
Before I took office, 2 police officers were gunned down trying 
to serve a warrant for a mental health issue. It was in the 
guy's parents' house. They didn't know that he had a firearm. 
So there's the guns issue. There's mental health issue. I think 
those are the kinds of things we need to talk about more as we 
move through these.
    But thank you to you and law enforcement officers around 
the country for the sacrifices you make and the work that you 
do to protect the country and our communities. With that, I 
yield back.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields.
    It sounds like rock drill, doesn't it? Strange.
    I now recognize Mr. Gonzales, the gentleman from Texas, for 
his 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Gonzales. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, gentlemen, 
for your service to our country. Thank you for the men and 
women that serve alongside you that this committee is--
committee is committed to making sure that you have all the 
tools you need to be successful and keeping Americans safe.
    In particular, I want to thank Mr. Bullock. You know, 
Justin Berry is a good friend of mine; an officer there in 
Austin. I hear a lot about kind-of behind the scenes what's 
happening. In many cases, I feel as if you're serving behind 
enemy lines. I want to take this opportunity to really tear 
into the Travis County District Attorney. I think that guy has 
done a terrible job. I think that individual has made that 
community unsafe. Those type of situations need to go away. We 
need to get back to everybody is on the same team, paddling in 
the same direction for the safety of all citizens, not this 
ideology or the other.
    My question is to you, sir, in recent years, rogue 
prosecutors have brought radical ideas on how to approach our 
criminal justice system. Where you see prosecutors refusing to 
prosecute offenders and allowing low-bond amounts for violent 
criminals. We've seen criminals posted bond that end up 
committing more violent crimes; in some cases, shooting police 
officers and endangering the community. This is a dangerous 
trend and tells communities that there are no real penalties 
for breaking the law.
    My question to you, Mr. Bullock, is what are some of the 
tools that States or Congress might be able to use to reel in 
some of these criminal-friendly prosecutors?
    Mr. Bullock. Well, thank you, sir. It undoubtedly is an 
issue we deal with. You know, it's the enforcement aspect is 
the biggest part where laws are passed, laws are in place, but 
yet we have individuals that decide on their own not to enforce 
those laws. I think that some opportunities are what Congress 
is already looking at. In particular when officers are 
targeted, that that becomes a Federal crime because then we 
tend to have these working relationships with U.S. Attorneys 
that do prosecute those crimes, along with a lot of other drug 
crimes that we have.
    For example, we just recently in Austin had almost 80 
overdoses of fentanyl that resulted in the 9 people dying. Then 
we had between EMS and APD over, I believe it was over 300 
doses of Narcan that was administered within a single weekend. 
Yet, we have a prosecutor who drops unilaterally any possession 
of a controlled substance under a gram. That can be a lethal 
dose of fentanyl.
    So any efforts that would strengthen prosecution that make 
sure that crimes are actually enforced and prosecution is 
fallen through would be extremely beneficial.
    Mr. Gonzales. Thank you. This is certainly getting a whole 
lot more attention here on Congress. Because I feel as if you 
are doing your part of the job. You are putting the uniform on. 
You are going to work. You are once again trying to protect 
your community. Then when you pass that ball off to the 
prosecuting standpoint, in some cases, you have people that are 
throwing the ball the other way, and it's not getting down the 
field.
    I recently introduced the Cops Act. One of the things that 
I thought was interesting on it, and I'd love to get your take, 
is the Cops Act includes any attack against a police officer to 
include explosive materials, such as fireworks and other 
dangerous weapons. We always talk guns. We always talk about a 
police officer getting shot in line of duty. What I am starting 
to see is this morph into something else. You know, these 
criminals, these rioters, they're using fireworks, they're 
using, you know, bottles of water that have been frozen.
    So once again, are you seeing an increase in other than 
kind-of firearms--this is for Mr. Bullock--other than firearms, 
are your officers under attack with these other areas?
    Mr. Bullock. Yes, other things that you mentioned such as 
fireworks are being used, high-powered lasers are an issue as 
well. We have even recently discovered of a dry chemical that 
can be thrown on officers that burns and it causes--it could be 
potentially lethal, depending upon how it's treated. So these 
are all things we are having to prepare for now that it is not 
just firearms that are a threat to law enforcement.
    Mr. Gonzales. I see this growing, and I also--we have to 
get ahead of this. It can't just be firearms when a police 
officer gets a firearm.
    My last question is for your, Sheriff. I lean on sheriffs 
heavily. I have nearly half of the overall Southern Border. One 
of the questions I want to ask is a little bit more blocking 
and tackling is license plate readers. In many cases, what I 
hear from my sheriffs is license plate readers are a game-
changer. They include--you're able to find more information and 
get an aspect of it.
    So just in general, what is your thoughts on interacting 
license plate readers and the data along that into your county?
    Sheriff Chapman. License plate readers are critical 
information that helps us solve crimes up and down the coast, 
anywhere in the area. It gives us a heads-up on anything that 
might have been like a crime that already past occurred in like 
a neighborhood where we can go back in and track it, license 
plate reader, and see who might have been in the neighborhood. 
Then you can get yourself a suspect and possibly prosecution 
based on something as simple as that. So they're critical to 
what we do. We need to have them. We need to have access to 
that information. It really does help us quite a bit.
    Mr. Gonzales. Thank you, Sheriff. I yield back, Chairman.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. 
Garcia for his 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank all of 
you for your service as well. I was mayor of Long Beach before 
I got to Congress for the last 8 years. So I worked with our 
police department, obviously, very closely. I'm really proud of 
the men and women that served in Long Beach and police 
departments across the country. I also want to thank them for 
working in those 8 years to focus on also issues that I believe 
made the Long Beach Police Department focus on issues around 
diversity, around equity, around community policing, and other 
initiatives that really make our police department inclusive of 
the community.
    Now, we know that law enforcement and keeping people safe 
shouldn't be a partisan issue. I hope people understand that 
when we talk about supporting police, we need to follow through 
on that support in Congress through real actions not just 
partisan messaging bills. Police officers actually need the 
tools to do their jobs. They need training. They need 
technology. Of course, we need to make sure that we can hire 
and recruit talented people into our police departments. That 
also includes and means Federal funding.
    Now Mr. Bryant, would it support State and local law 
enforcement to actually defund Federal support programs for 
community policing?
    Mr. Bryant. Absolutely not. Many of our agencies work 
together within a type of ecosystem that we are relying upon 
one another. So any defunding of our Federal agencies will have 
a significant impact on our local enforcement agencies as well 
as we typically have TFOs on part of those organizations.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, sir. I'm assuming you're familiar 
with the COPS Federal funding program as well.
    Mr. Bryant. That's correct.
    Mr. Garcia. Which, as we all know, if you ask any police 
department across the country, particularly those in urban 
large cities, they're critical for our police departments. You 
know, 80 percent of the Majority have signed onto a budget 
which actually eliminates and reduces funding for our COPS 
Federal program for police departments. I think it's really 
important that we keep that funding, that we support law 
enforcement across the country in places like Long Beach and 
across America.
    Now, Mr. Bryant, I also wanted to show you this graph, and 
I think it's very important. As mayor, we would track data. 
This is data that comes from police departments from across the 
country. As you can see here, there was a surge of homicides 30 
percent to the highest level of the 90s here in 2020. And 
overall, we know that violent crimes and homicides have been 
decreasing over the last few decades, even though some like to 
scare folks and act like somehow we are in this massive crime 
wave that we have never seen. We know that is just actually not 
true. But in 2020, when we do see a small increase, who was 
President? In 2020?
    Mr. Bryant. In 2020, it was President Trump.
    Mr. Garcia. That's right. So if you look at the graph where 
the overall crime was decreasing, we see the one spike that we 
had, it was actually during Donald Trump's Presidency. Since 
then, crime is actually beginning to decrease. In fact, we are 
now reaching again lower levels because President Biden and 
other Presidents and other mayors and other Governors have also 
invested in community policing, in community safety, in park 
programs, and ensuring that we not just focus on the policing 
side, but that we're also investing in communities.
    So I just want to be very, very clear about where actual 
homicides in United States have actually gone. They're going 
down. In fact the only real increase we had was when Donald 
Trump was President. Just to know when he talks about what's 
happening across this country as it relates to crime, he is 
actually wrong. So I want to make that note.
    I wanted to say one final thing. As you probably know, 
we're going to go back to January 6. We talk about policing and 
supporting police officers. I think it is very important to 
support our Capitol Police that were here and protected the 
Capitol on January 6.
    I toured the D.C. jail with, in fact, one other Member of 
this committee in the Majority. We did that, unfortunately, 
those prisoners, those insurrectionists were treated like 
heroes. They were hugged. They were given handshakes by Members 
of the Majority and particularly one Member of this committee.
    Let's remember the facts. Seventeen of the 20 that were 
charged at that jail were charged with assaulting police, 6 of 
them had already pled guilty, yet they are being called in some 
cases heroes. They're being called hostages by folks in the 
Majority. In fact, this right here is a reminder these circles 
of folks that actually are in the D.C. jail that have been 
called heroes, that have assaulted police, that have done 
nothing but commit an insurrection and treason against this 
country.
    So when we talk about supporting law enforcement, sir, we 
talk about ensuring that we support our police officers. It is 
very important that we support the Capitol Police and not the 
20 people that are being held, and they're being coddled, 
supported, and uplifted by some Members of the Congress, which 
I think is shameful, disgusting, there is no place, and, quite 
frankly, hypocritical as well.
    To conclude, I want to submit the profiles of the January 6 
inmates of the D.C. jail, which is an article that just 
outlines and lists exactly who these quote, unquote hostages as 
called by some of the Majority actually are. Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields. I now recognize the 
gentleman from Mississippi, Mr. Ezell, former Sheriff, for 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Ezell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is honor to be here 
this week, especially serving in the House on National Police 
Week, acknowledging the hard work of local law enforcement and 
Federal partners that we work with.
    Yesterday, I was proud the House unanimously passed my 
resolution, which expressed its Congressional support for local 
law enforcement and condemns a call to defund the police. This 
is particularly important, and I believe it relates to the 
conversation today as the Biden administration refused to 
enforce laws at our border that would make law enforcement 
officer jobs easier.
    Sheriff Chapman, it is great to see another sheriff in the 
room today, and glad to see all of you here with him. I know 
you're glad to be here.
    Your testimony about DHS silence when you were seeking 
answers about the resettling of 1,000 refugees in your 
community is disturbing. As a former sheriff, I know how 
important information sharing is, and I would expect DHS to 
fully cooperate with local law enforcement. Clearly, that's not 
happening. I'm sure you brought your concerns regarding intel 
sharing to DHS, and tell us what the response was.
    Sheriff Chapman. The first response was, OK, we understand 
your concerns, we'll get back to you, and we'll work this out. 
Two weeks later, still nothing had been done. It was clear that 
the only way that we are going to solve this issue with the 
people coming in and getting the community notified, there was 
no transparency in this with regards to anything that was 
occurring with that would be for us to do it ourselves. So I 
called a stakeholders meeting myself. I thought I would have 
about 12 people that would show up. I ended up having close to 
70 that showed up. We went around the room. Everybody from 
faith-based leaders to hospital members to fire rescue, to, you 
know, many three-letter agencies around the Beltway here. We 
were able to put together a plan and do it, and then have a 
subsequent community meeting so that the citizens would know 
what to expect what was coming in.
    So, in other words, everything that was handled that need 
to be done was done at the local level with very little 
assistance until we had that community panel where they all 
came in and then were able to--after we had already organized 
where we needed to go with that, that community panel could 
then relay what was going to happen and how we were going to 
handle it. Fortunately, because we did that at the local level, 
we didn't have any issues of concern.
    Mr. Ezell. Very good. Has anything improved since you had 
that community meeting with DHS?
    Sheriff Chapman. The process went well. We had very little 
contact with DHS. We have a lot of contact with our other 
Federal partners, but we do not have very much contact with 
members of DHS.
    Mr. Ezell. As long as I'm here, I will continue to work 
with the committee to find ways to instruct DHS to cooperate 
with local law enforcement officers. We all know the importance 
of information sharing.
    You also testified that even though Loudoun County is not a 
border county, you face merely the same issue as these border 
counties do. Can you elaborate and tell us how this open-border 
policy is affecting your county? Even if you have some 
knowledge about some other counties around your area?
    Sheriff Chapman. I would say the most critical part of that 
is the fentanyl that's coming in. I just saw recent stats. I 
think there was 115 million pills that were seized in 2023. 
There was up 71 million from the year before. Fentanyl deaths 
are impacting everybody throughout the country. We've seen--
when I testified before a subcommittee a few weeks ago, I 
talked about the 9 fentanyl overdoses that we had from one 
particular high school--members of one particular high school 
in one area within about a 3-week period. So we are seeing 
issues or concern. We are seeing the fentanyl used by younger 
people. It is really concerning me that it's now going down to 
the teenage level, where before that we saw it between 25 and 
35 years old. Then it was 20 to 25. Now, it is 15 to 25, 
whatever. It really does concern me that the ages drop. Then I 
will say that's the biggest impact that we are seeing from the 
open-border policies and the constant influx of drugs that are 
permeating throughout the United States.
    Mr. Ezell. Can you walk us through some of the challenges 
that's going on with local law enforcement as a part of this 
border mess that we have? Has this hurt your department's 
ability to recruit?
    Sheriff Chapman. I think we've actually done pretty good 
recruiting because we answer directly to the citizens that we 
serve. I think there's a lot of people that like that; being 
I'm an elected official rather than an appointed official. So 
we're in a position where we answer directly to them in our 
intake and our direction from necessarily people that have 
other agendas that might want to impose that on us as law 
enforcement leaders. So our very recruits actually have gone 
pretty good. We have about a 6 percent attrition rate, most of 
which are retirements. Our recruitment is up. We hired, I 
think--went through a hundred people last year, close to that.
    So we are doing pretty good in the scope of things in 
comparison to surrounding areas. So I don't really have any 
personal complaints, but I do know that it's a problem that's 
impacting many of our law enforcement agencies in the area.
    Mr. Ezell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you 
all, again, for being here today.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mrs. 
Ramirez from Illinois. Oh, yes, that's right. Thank you for the 
reminder. We will. So ordered.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you. You know, I just wanted to make sure 
we put in the profiles of the January 6 inmates into the 
record.
    Chairman Green. So ordered. You're welcome to introduce 
your guest if you would like.
    [The information follows:]
    
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    Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman. My mother, who 
oftentimes many of you have heard of was here for about an hour 
and had to leave, but I'm really grateful that she was here. As 
you know, she brought me here. She was pregnant when she 
crossed that border. Her daughter today is a Member of 
Congress. So I wanted to make sure she was in committee.
    Chairman, I want to thank you and Ranking Member and the 
witnesses that are here today for being here. You know, I heard 
one of my colleagues say, look, the No. 1 job for officers is 
to put the bad people away, like not just the bad guys, because 
guys, girls--it could be anyone--and to protect our communities 
and make our communities safe. I agree with that.
    After I've heard so many of your testimonies, it's clear to 
me that we all agree that we must strategically invest in 
community safety. I believe community safety is bigger than 
policing, because it requires long-term preventative solutions 
with professionals that are trained in multiple disciplines. 
That working together, officers and other trained 
professionals, we're able to address the cause of violence.
    For years now, law enforcement has increasingly become the 
first responder in the primary way that we address systemic 
problems. For example, increased global instability resulting 
in unprecedented numbers of refugees needing urgent 
resettlement support, as Chair Chapman mentioned occurred in 
Loudoun County. To unaddress issues that undermine school 
safety, as Deputy Commissioner Mays noted is priority in 
Tennessee.
    We have overburdened our public servants with tasks and 
crisis that they're not equipped to confront, which makes them 
and our communities, right, less safe. I believe as we're 
talking about where we are in this precise moment, I think we 
can restore balance in public safety ecosystem by investing 
initiatives that allow professionals to respond to the crisis 
that they were trained to confront, not a mental health crisis.
    President Bryant, I appreciate you noting how public health 
and safety require a comprehensive, nonjudgmental, pragmatic 
evidence-based approach that includes violence prevention 
measures. So I wanted to ask you, how would increasing the role 
of community members, health care providers, and other trained 
professionals in public safety response affect police 
departments?
    Mr. Bryant. Thank you so much. Public safety is the 
responsibility of all citizens involved. So when we are--and I 
agree that law enforcement's primarily police are typically the 
first responders to almost every given incident, which 
overburdens the profession. But increasing and allowing the 
community to play a significant part is very beneficial to what 
we do, incorporating other professions in what we do, as stated 
in this space of mental health, I think will help us 
tremendously.
    Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you, Mr. Bryant. You know, Chicago, I 
represent one of the greatest cities in the world, Chicago. 
It's been working to right-size the role of police. It's been 
redesignating some of the overwhelmingly amount of public 
health and service work delegated to the police department, 
back the community partners, and trained professionals.
    The Chicago Police Department reported that in 2019, its 
officers had to respond to over 40,000 calls with a mental 
health component of some case. It generated, obviously, deep 
frustration among officers who feel like they're required to 
respond to social and medical problems for which they're not 
trained, and that mental health systems should be managing 
those instead.
    So to address this, Chicago had started a treatment, not 
trauma pilot that had counselors responding to 9-1-1 mental 
health calls instead of having to call the police. One 
organization using this motto has reported that they have had--
they have not needed police presence for over 94 percent of 
those calls. That means that those officers that would have had 
to respond to those calls can actually address the issues of 
crimes of violence. Because the community intervention 
programs, my own district has seen a 50 percent reduction in 
shootings and homicides.
    So as I think about that, and I think about our officers, 
one of the things that I want us to think about is how do we 
make sure that you have the resources you need, the partners 
you need to do this work, and that you are able to put the bad 
guys and the bad women behind bars while focusing on and also 
protecting our communities. That's why to me as we talk about 
Police Week, I want to make sure that we continue incorporating 
community policing and partnerships so that we do what we all 
care about: Reduce crime and have communities that are safe. 
With that, Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Garbarino [presiding]. The gentlelady yields back. I 
now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Thank you all for being here today. I thank the Ranking 
Member and Chairman Green for holding this hearing.
    President Bullock, I want to start with you about recruit 
retention. In your testimony, you discussed how your department 
is 700 officers short of where staffing should be. One of the 
reasons you attribute this shortage was the city of Austin's 
defunding the police department by $150 million.
    As you mentioned in Austin's case, political posturing has 
led to the defunding of cameras in police departments across 
the United States, which has increased crime and erode public 
safety. Austin continues to be one of America's fastest-growing 
cities. As this growth continues, what do you foresee will be 
some of the impacts of rising crime on economic development, 
quality of life for city residents in Austin?
    Mr. Bullock. I think we're already seeing it quite 
honestly. I've had a number of discussions with business owners 
that are, you know, involved in recruiting new businesses to 
come to Austin, to come to Texas, and public safety is one of 
their biggest issues. People have opted not to come to Austin 
because of the issues that we have seen, in particular, with 
crime and as it relates to a lot of homeless issues and various 
other things. But, in particular, enforcement and public safety 
is the No. 1 factor that businesses take into account. We are 
now starting to see people choose not to come to Austin because 
of the environment that's been created.
    Mr. Garbarino. These are not just small businesses, these 
are pretty sizable companies as well, right?
    Mr. Bullock. Correct, yes, they're businesses of all size. 
They are still, like, new start-ups, but also significant 
companies as well.
    Mr. Garbarino. What has the impacts of the defunding 
department had on officer morale and recruitment and retention?
    Mr. Bullock. I mean, from the recruiting and retention 
part, I think is very, it's pretty quantifiable because we have 
seen every year since this started--in particular, back in 
2018, we have lost more officers than we've been able to 
recruit. So it has a very definitive impact on those numbers. 
As far as morale goes, it takes a very heavy toll on officers 
to try to maintain the same level of service that our community 
expects and deserves, while at the same time doing it with 
ever-diminishing resources. So that's a lot for officers to try 
to carry as they're trying to go out and keep the city safe.
    Mr. Garbarino. Absolutely. Just to double down on that, I 
mean, you're saying you're losing officers, but also in your 
testimony you talked how Texas State troopers have been 
reassigned from Austin to the Southern Border, which also 
hurts. What impact has that had on public safety in Austin; the 
reassignment of the State troopers?
    Mr. Bullock. When they were assigned to be in Austin, they 
had a pretty--they had a notable impact, in particular, in 
areas where we had seen increased call volumes, we had seen 
increase in 9-1-1 calls and criminal activity. So being able to 
go and suppress that activity by an increased presence of State 
troopers was very beneficial. In particular, as we have dealt 
with in recent years, street takeovers. State troopers being 
able to assist in curbing that issue. When they left, we saw 
spikes. A study was actually done as well as it related, 
specifically, to traffic fatalities where there was a notable 
increase that as we dealt with an increased level of patrol 
activity and traffic enforcement, we saw, I think, it was 
around a 60 percent increase in traffic fatalities that occur 
as a result of a lack in enforcement we were able to do.
    Mr. Garbarino. So you actually just answered my next 
question. So the reassignment had a heavy impact on the ability 
of Austin police to protect the public because you don't have 
enough people responding. So the thin ranks really does have a 
negative impact on what you can do.
    Mr. Bullock. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Garbarino. I appreciate you being here.
    Deputy Commissioner Mays, I want to ask you a question 
about interagency coordination. Collaboration and sharing 
information amongst law enforcement agencies plays a crucial 
role in mitigating the threats. Since 9/11, there's been a 
growing trend of agencies working together to promote 
transparency in exchange of information. In what ways does the 
Tennessee Office of Homeland Security coordinate with State, 
local, and Federal law enforcement agencies to address security 
concerns, and how has your experience been working with them?
    Mr. Mays. Thank you for the question. We coordinate several 
different ways. I would say at the forefront is the Tennessee 
Fusion Center. One of the other witnesses mentioned there are 
80 fusion centers around the Nation and in the territories. 
Tennessee has a fusion center, and we have State, local, and 
Federal partners that participate there. We've also embedded 
Tennessee Office of Homeland Security intelligence analysts in 
the intelligence units of police departments around the State. 
We found that that's a good way to be present and to learn. For 
example, we have someone in the Memphis real-time crime center. 
That gets us a good idea of what's going on in Memphis better 
than we can ascertain from sitting in Nashville.
    Then the other really important thing I would say is it has 
to do with just personal relationships and in investing in 
those relationships before something bad happens.
    On the Christmas Day bombing in Nashville in 2020, we were 
opening presents with my kids, and I got a phone call that a 
bomb went off in downtown Nashville and blew up most of Second 
Avenue. When I responded downtown, everyone was there, all the 
Federal partners, all the local and State law enforcement 
agencies in the area. I knew personally the leader of every one 
of those agencies that we had met before and discussed 
responses before. The only one I hadn't met was the agent in 
charge of the ATF because he had only been on the job 2 weeks, 
right. So those are the ways we cooperate, and we do it daily.
    Mr. Garbarino. I appreciate that. I am out of time.
    I now recognize the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Menendez 
for--I'll give you 5 minutes.
    Mr. Menendez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to 
begin by thanking our witnesses for being here this morning and 
for the work you and all of your colleagues do every single day 
to keep our community safe. This week--and in this committee, I 
want to focus on some of the bipartisan things that we've been 
able to achieve in this Congress. Some thanks to our Cyber 
Subcommittee led by Chairman Garbarino and Ranking Member 
Swalwell.
    Deputy Commissioner Mays, during your testimony, you 
touched on the importance of collaboration and responding to 
cyber-related incidents. How does Tennessee Homeland Security 
support capacity-building efforts to ensure that State and 
local agencies have the resources and expertise to effectively 
respond to cyber-related incidents?
    Mr. Mays. Thank you for that question. Many people already 
know we are in a cyber conflict right now with nation-state 
actors. There are cyber attacks, ransomware attacks every day. 
We partner with the Federal Government CISA. We're very 
appreciative of the Federal cybersecurity grant. Tennessee has 
set up a State cybersecurity council where we are making 
decisions--the Office of Homeland Security has a seat at that 
table where we are making decisions on where to put that money 
to get the best use. We are partnering with--one of the 
innovative things we are doing is partnering with our Tennessee 
Colleges of Applied Technology or with trade schools so that we 
can--we sponsor cybersecurity training so these students coming 
up learn about cybersecurity training; they get a chance to 
work with us and maybe pursue a career in that.
    The cybersecurity issue is very complex, and it's going to 
take a full Nation-wide effort every day to be successful 
there.
    Mr. Menendez. You know I'd love to learn more about that 
program because we talk a lot about building the pipeline of 
cybersecurity professionals because we are going to need them 
at every level of government. So I appreciate the collaboration 
that you've done there.
    President Bryant, thank you for your testimony this 
morning. Given the prevalence of mental health crises and law 
enforcement interactions, how can agencies better collaborate 
with mental health professional and community-based 
organizations to provide appropriate care and support for 
individuals in crisis?
    Mr. Bryant. Absolutely. I think that what we have to do is 
really come to the table and have more in-depth conversation on 
how we can work more collaboratively together. One of the 
things--and clearly my colleague can attest to--that many of 
our county jails and prisons have now become a subset of a 
mental hospital. So we have to address that. Because that, too, 
has an impact on how we are responding to crime throughout our 
community. So having the ability to come together and come up 
with a more in-depth way to respond to the community will be 
beneficial.
    Mr. Menendez. It will also be helpful for you as well to 
continue your primary function by shifting some of those 
responsibilities away to community-based organizations or 
people who are trained professionals in the mental health 
space. Would you agree with that?
    Mr. Bryant. Absolutely. I think in many instances, law 
enforcement officers are just ill-equipped to address the 
mental issues that we are encountering on the street. When it 
becomes a bad situation, it becomes even worse for the 
community.
    Mr. Menendez. Well, if you see any best practices, please 
come back to us and let us know so we can work on them at a 
Federal level.
    I also want to touch on a different issue. But coming back 
to you President Bryant. You have a great deal of experience 
working with DHS to get Federal resources for securing major 
public events, like the 2018 college football playoff and the 
2019 Super Bowl. In fact, you led the command for both events, 
I believe. Is that correct?
    Mr. Bryant. That is correct.
    Mr. Menendez. I want to talk a little bit about your 
experience with the 2018 college football playoff which 
received the second-highest special event assessment rating or 
SEAR from DHS. It was a SEAR 2 event, as you know. That SEAR 2 
rating brought some Federal interagency support to Atlanta, 
which helped your law enforcement team ensure the safety of 
everyone at the championship game, including the President.
    The DHS SEAR program has never been authorized by Congress, 
but my colleagues, Ms. Titus of Nevada, and Mr. Hudson of North 
Carolina have a bipartisan bill that would authorize a SEAR 
program, streamline the rating process, and make the program 
more robust. It is obvious to me that SEAR is important to help 
State, local, Tribal, and territorial law enforcement keep 
these large public gatherings safe for everyone.
    In the time we have remaining, what, in your opinion, can 
Congress do to support law enforcement in these efforts?
    Mr. Bryant. So to improve upon this, I think, again, having 
the collaboration for all Federal partners, State, and local 
entities coming together to address any large-scale event is 
very beneficial to the community as we serve. I had the 
privilege of leading both events and having a strong 
relationship with our Federal partners was very beneficial to 
ensuring that both events went off very peacefully.
    Mr. Menendez. I appreciate that. Thank you all, again, so 
much. I yield back.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. 
D'Esposito from New York for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good 
afternoon, everyone. Thank you for being here, and thank you 
for your service to law enforcement and to this country.
    Mr. Bullock, you mentioned that even though you are not a 
border city, the impact of the Biden border crisis has been 
felt in cities and counties throughout the country. I think 
that we could agree that we've witnessed every State become a 
border State, every city a border city. The mayor of the city 
of New York actually said that the migrant situation would, 
``destroy New York City.'' So I want to ask you, what impact 
has the border crisis had specifically on your officers?
    Mr. Bullock. So the few specific examples that I have is 
one we did because of our staffing crisis, we were relying upon 
State troopers to come in and to help us in order to support 
our patrol efforts and in order to tamp down violent crime. As 
a result of what's going on at the border, they were diverted 
away from helping us in order to go and help secure the 
Southern Border. So that took away additional resources that we 
had as a department to try to help the citizens of Austin. We 
also deal with it on a fairly regular basis, whether it's as a 
victim or as a suspect; difficulties in identifying people. We 
have people who come and all we get handed is a passport card, 
matriculate card, a voting card that tells us nothing about 
where they're living currently in the United States. So our 
officers can encounter difficulties in investigations in trying 
to identify people, where they are. Like I said, that could be 
either as a victim or suspects. We do have people who come here 
legally that are engaged in both.
    Mr. D'Esposito. OK. Obviously, one of the biggest issues 
that we as law enforcement have, I think, throughout this 
country is recruitment and retention. So we clearly understand 
that the anti-police rhetoric and the inability for many 
elected officials in Government agencies across this country to 
support law enforcement and give them the resources that they 
need has created issues.
    But what, specifically, have you seen with your officers 
with regards to the migrant situation and its effect on morale 
and obviously something important? I know there's legislation 
on the floor this week with regard to mental health. But what 
have you seen happen to the morale of your men and women with 
regards to the issues that you've--that your Department is 
facing?
    Mr. Bullock. I think the No. 1 recruiting asset that we 
have are the officers that are currently with the department. 
When they don't feel valued, and when they don't feel like they 
are appreciated, it is very unlikely they're going to encourage 
anyone else to undergo the same mental stress. So that 
perpetuates the issue of us having difficulty keeping people in 
the profession, as well as recruiting people to come into the 
law enforcement profession.
    So I think holistically, that's probably one of the most 
significant impacts that it has is the increased stress levels 
and the toll that it takes on officers and their families, it 
dissuades anyone else from coming in. So that makes it very 
difficult for us to get out of this situation.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Yes, I would agree. You know, I spent a 
career in the NYPD, and I think that we're seeing now--that's 
the fire departments, the police departments, they're careers 
that are generational. When you see individuals whose 
grandfathers and fathers and great-grandfathers all served in 
the New York City Police Department, and they're telling their 
children not to join the ranks, I think we have a serious 
issue.
    You also mentioned in your testimony you talked about the 
fact that you don't have sufficient amount of officers, and 
that your department was previously defunded by $150 million, 
cut 150 positions, and canceled recruitment classes. Obviously, 
Austin's not alone in places across New York, luckily not in 
Nassau and Suffolk County. But there are members of the city 
council in New York City who would love nothing more than to 
defund the NYPD.
    So it really goes back to the question that I really have, 
in the last 45 seconds, is what can we do better as Democrats, 
as Republicans, as Americans, what can we do to help 
departments? I know the answer, but I think that people need to 
hear it. What can we do to help law enforcement agencies? From 
the big ones like the NYPD, and the LAPD, to the small ones in 
small towns, what can we do to help make sure that you have, 
not only the resources that you need, but that you have the 
officers that want to join your ranks?
    Mr. Bullock. Well, I mean, the resources is obviously the 
biggest thing. It's support. It's making sure that officers 
know that the work they do is valued; that the work that they 
do has meaning to it. And that another member mentioned it 
earlier that officers aren't too interested in politics. We 
want to go out, we want to do our job, and we want to be able 
to do that without being used as political pawns and other 
people's games. That's what we deal with with rogue prosecutors 
in a variety of other different ways. So the support is the 
biggest thing as well as, quite honestly, addressing similar 
things. We may not have an issue if funding were taken away, if 
responsibilities were taken with it. If some of the mental 
health issues were taken on by other agencies and not given to 
us, it may not be as big of an issue.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Well, thank you. My time's expired, but I 
appreciate all of you. I value you. I appreciate you. I hope 
you all stay safe. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. 
Suozzi, the gentleman, from New York for 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Suozzi. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me first start by 
welcoming my colleague, Senator Tim Kennedy, now Congressman 
Kennedy to Washington. He's a great public servant. He's done a 
fantastic job in New York State, and I know he'll do a 
fantastic job here in the U.S. Congress, and that he is going 
to make a lot of friends here because of the seriousness with 
which he takes his job.
    I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here today. 
We really appreciate the time that you've taken to help to 
educate us. I know you have listened to a lot of this stuff 
back and forth, and you wonder what makes sense. Because people 
are just trying to score political points on both sides of 
this. We've got to start working together more to try and solve 
the problems we face in our country. We've really got to all 
support law enforcement.
    I was the mayor of a small city, my hometown of Glen Cove, 
and I was the county executive of Nassau County where I oversaw 
the eleventh-largest police force in the United States of 
America, where we reduced the crime rate to the lowest of any 
community in the Nation over 500,000 people.
    I know an important job you do. I know the challenges 
you're facing right now because of all the attacks that have 
been made on law enforcement over the years. It's not fair. 
It's not right. There are people trying to do their jobs.
    One of the dumbest statements that's ever been created 
anywhere in our country that is misused so often is this defund 
the police idea. It's an awful, terrible idea. If anything, I 
think that most people in the U.S. Congress agreed upon is we 
need to figure out how to get more money to law enforcement.
    I think that there are extremists on both sides: Some 
people that want to defund the police; other people want to 
defund the FBI; people want to cut the COPS program. We need to 
get more money for law enforcement. I think most people on both 
sides of the aisle believe in that.
    Do we need to fund the police? Yes. Is mental health a 
problem? Mr. Bryant, I think, was just saying--I've read 
statistics over the years--75 percent of the people in jail 
have a drug, alcohol, or mental health problem. Seventy-five 
percent of the people in jail have a drug, alcohol, or mental 
health problem. Those are problems we need to address earlier 
in life before everything blows up into a crisis. We need to go 
after bad actors. Are there bad actors in the police 
department? Yes, there are. But the large, large overwhelming 
majority of law enforcement officials are good people trying to 
do the right thing to make the world a better place to live in. 
Our society would not exist without the good work of law 
enforcement. So in thanking you, I'm thanking everybody you 
respect in law enforcement.
    So what can we do at the Federal Government? One size is 
not going to fit all. You've got these little small 
communities, you've got these big communities, you've got 
border communities, non-border communities, you've got places 
with heavy drugs where they want to carry, like Mr. Gimenez was 
saying earlier, AR-15s and body armor, and he's got little 
small towns as well.
    One of the great things that happened when I was the mayor 
of Glen Cove was the COPS program that the President Clinton 
did. They wanted to put 100,000 more cops on the streets. We 
could get a grant to bring more cops into our local little 
police department. It was a fantastic program.
    I want to know would you support the idea of funding for 
grants to hire more officers or buy equipment or do whatever 
you think is right for your department? Would you like to see 
the Federal Government provide more money for law enforcement? 
I'll just ask you all quickly.
    Mr. Mays, would you like to receive more money from the 
Federal Government for law enforcement?
    Mr. Mays. Yes, sir. Absolutely.
    Mr. Suozzi. Mr. Chapman.
    Mr. Chapman. Of course.
    Mr. Suozzi. Mr. Bullock.
    Mr. Bullock. Absolutely.
    Mr. Suozzi. Mr. Bryant.
    Mr. Bryant. Yes.
    Mr. Suozzi. I think we all agree. Everybody agrees. We need 
more money from the Federal Government for law enforcement. 
Now, one of the things--I can't tell you about all the things, 
but one of the things we can do at the Federal level in 
addition to providing funding is to try and address laws that 
would fill holes that exist in some communities.
    Mr. Mays, I was very interested to listen to you earlier. 
It sounded like you support red flag laws; the idea of a police 
officer for a family member or somebody being able to go before 
a law enforcement official, like a judge, and say, listen, this 
person should really not have a gun. We need to take this gun 
away from that person. Go through due process, go through a 
procedure, but have professionals testify and take guns away 
from people that shouldn't really have guns. Do you believe in 
red flag laws?
    Mr. Mays. I don't use the term ``red flag laws'' because 
it's loaded language that gets people all upset. But extreme 
risk protection orders----
    Mr. Suozzi. Yes.
    Mr. Mays [continuing]. The ability to take a weapon with 
due process available----
    Mr. Suozzi. With due process.
    Mr. Mays [continuing]. To someone who is mentally ill or 
unstable or we believe has capability and intent. The Governor 
of Tennessee proposed something like that. It didn't go. But so 
I would answer yes, but with different words.
    Mr. Suozzi. The words you use are--say it again.
    Mr. Mays. Extreme risk protection orders.
    Mr. Suozzi. So I know you have extreme risk protection 
orders type of laws in Virginia already, Mr. Chapman. So I'm 
not going to ask you. But I want to ask Mr. Bullock. You don't 
have those in Texas. Do you think we should have that as a 
Nation-wide basis?
    Mr. Bullock. I believe there's value in providing 
additional layers of protection. In Texas, one of the 
situations that was mentioned if we do place someone on an 
emergency commitment due to mental health, we have the ability 
to seize the firearm, but it's temporary. It only lasts for 
maybe a week, depending upon, you know, a variety of different 
circumstances. But the ability to make sure that individuals we 
know are at risk, don't have access to weapons I think is 
valuable.
    Mr. Suozzi. It would be great if we had extreme risk 
protection laws Nation-wide I believe. I just wanted to try and 
get some support from the different witnesses here today. Thank 
you so much. I appreciate your time. I yield back, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize Mr. Higgins, the Chairman of the Water 
Subcommittee, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I thank our panelists for being here today.
    I'm honored and humbled to be a brother of the Thin Blue 
Line. Long ago, as a younger man, I served in the United States 
Army as a military police officer and then, later in life, as a 
civilian police officer in my home State of Louisiana for many 
years. I maintain my post certification through the Louisiana 
State Attorney General's Office, so I'm a cop as I sit in front 
of you today.
    This is a week in Washington, DC, this bizarre realm of 
Washington, DC, where there's a great cacophony of support 
across the--across the political spectrums for law enforcement, 
that you'll hear--you'll hear, you know, political testimony 
and agenda-driven questions, like how to--how to trick 
panelists into supporting red-flag laws, where, in the limited 
time available, you know, you just don't have--you don't have 
the time or the venue here to go into it, as to why we oppose 
such things.
    The actual existence of--Mr. Suozzi has left the room, but 
in the State of Louisiana we have the authority--law 
enforcement takes guns out of houses all the time under a 
protective order or under investigation of an on-going criminal 
allegation, and that property receipt is turned over to the 
spouse or whatever. Sometimes at the request of the spouse you 
remove firearms from a residence.
    These laws and protections already exist. The problem is 
when you force them from the Federal Government into the 
sovereign States and municipalities. This is where you have 
major issues and infringement of Second Amendment rights.
    So, moving on, Mr. Bullock, you're from Austin, Texas, 
correct, sir?
    Mr. Bullock. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Higgins. I would like for you to speak, if you don't 
mind, regarding the impact of the border crisis. You're a 
couple hundred miles from the border there.
    We know, of course, that the invasion at the Southern 
Border, the disintegration of our sovereignty at the Southern 
Border has affected the entire country, but would you speak to 
the impact in your community that the border crisis has had, in 
your city, your police department?
    Mr. Bullock. It's had an impact, not just from a resource 
aspect of our population continues to grow through a variety of 
different circumstances, but we've relied upon the State to 
help us and the State's resources have had to be diverted to 
the Southern Border.
    We also have issues when it comes to identifying 
individuals, when it comes to following up when people report 
crimes or when people commit crimes----
    Mr. Higgins. How about response to complaints, 9-1-1 calls, 
response times?
    Mr. Bullock. They continue to go up. We've struggled with 
that for several years now.
    Mr. Higgins. So your citizenry that's accustomed to having 
access to police assistance for things like domestic 
disturbances, break-ins, burglaries, et cetera, suspicious 
people on their property, things of that nature, are they 
having to wait because your officers and your deputies in your 
community are doing other stuff?
    Mr. Bullock. Either wait or not get a response at all. 
There are numerous instances where we quit responding----
    Mr. Higgins. Unfortunately, this is happening across the 
country.
    Sheriff Chapman, would you--in my remaining 30 seconds, 
sir, would you touch on the impact of the cartel pipelines, 
human trafficking, and drug trafficking into your community?
    Sheriff Chapman. I would say that, as I mentioned before, 
the biggest problem with that we've seen there is the fentanyl 
problem which is impacting us, starting to impact our community 
at younger ages. I think that's the biggest--the biggest aspect 
that's represented by the open borders there, with an increase 
in that. So we are starting to see that.
    I think our crime rate's starting to tick up a little bit, 
but we're still doing pretty good in our particular area.
    But it does concern me, the open borders and the impact 
it's having across--across the country, certainly, it's more 
significant, but in our community we're still doing pretty 
well.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Sheriff.
    Mr. Chairman, my time has expired.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize Mr. Kennedy, the gentleman from New York, 
for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you very much.
    First of all, Chairman Green and Ranking Member Thompson, 
thank you for holding this hearing today.
    Also, I'd like to recognize the service of Congressman 
Donald Payne, Jr., who passed away far too soon just a few 
weeks ago. He served on this committee so nobly and leaves 
behind an incredible legacy. For over a decade, he honorably 
served and fought for his constituents in Newark, New Jersey.
    Yesterday, May 14, was the second anniversary of the Tops 
supermarket shooting in Buffalo, New York, my home town--an 
attack that struck the heart of our city and, really, of our 
Nation.
    Racist, white supremacist gunmen came to Buffalo, armed 
with an AR-15-style rifle covered in disgusting racist 
messages, and attacked citizens that were simply going to the 
supermarket on a beautiful Saturday afternoon, taking 10 
beautiful souls, while it was streamed on-line, in over a 
matter of minutes.
    One of the victims was Lieutenant Aaron Salter, Jr., a 
retired Buffalo police officer working at Tops as an armed 
security guard. When the shooter came in, Lieutenant Salter 
didn't hesitate and returned fire, hitting his target. But 
because of the enhanced body armor, the shooter was unharmed 
and murdered Lieutenant Salter.
    Lieutenant Aaron Salter, Jr.'s courageous actions bought 
precious seconds for store patrons and employees to escape, 
saving lives at the expense of his own. He serves as a true 
testament to the sacrifices that police officers make for their 
communities, and we're grateful for his historic actions.
    I also want to recognize all law enforcement, this being 
National Police Week. As the grandson of a Buffalo police 
officer myself, I recognize the sacrifices that families make 
on a daily basis as their loved ones go off and put themselves 
in harm's way.
    I want to talk about enhanced body armor. I have questions 
for our panelists.
    I thank the panelists for your testimony today and your 
life-long commitment to protecting our streets across this 
country.
    As I described the situation that played out in Buffalo 
just over 2 years ago, we know that Lieutenant Aaron Salter, 
Jr., died a hero and embodied everything that police officers 
across the Nation stand for. He used his training to help 
others.
    Because of that body armor, he was unable to stop the 
perpetrator in that moment.
    I would like to ask each of you in your respective 
capacities: Do you believe that enhanced body armor should be 
readily available for citizens who are not law enforcement?
    Mr. Mays. Thank you for the question, Congressman.
    It's something I haven't considered before. I would suppose 
there are opinions on both sides. Body armor also provides 
safety for people who are doing shooting sports. I would 
hesitate to say people can't have it. But I don't have a clear 
answer for you on that.
    Mr. Kennedy. This would be enhanced body armor, level 3 
body armor, military-style grade.
    Mr. Mays. Again, I don't have an answer for you.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you.
    Sheriff.
    Sheriff Chapman. That's an interesting question, and I 
don't know if I have an answer either. Although, if somebody's 
going to purchase that, it would certainly be nice for us to 
know and have that information available in the event that we 
have to encounter that person at a later time.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you.
    Mr. Bullock. I'm kind-of in the--we're all in a similar 
boat, I'm going to imagine, where it's not a question that's 
yet been posed.
    You know, we're here, obviously, to protect people's rights 
and their ability to, you know, purchase what is legal for them 
to do so, but, obviously, it's concerning when it impedes our 
ability to enforce the law. So I think there's a balance that 
has to be found in all of that.
    Mr. Bryant. I would agree that more conversation would need 
to be had as it relates to it. It is concerning when people can 
use that level of equipment in a criminal act.
    Mr. Kennedy. I yield my time. Thank you.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize the Chairman of the Counterterrorism 
Subcommittee, Mr. Pfluger, the gentleman from Texas, for 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As well as the Law 
Enforcement Subcommittee.
    Especially in this week, I want to say thank you to all 
those who serve. Sheriff and all of you in your respective jobs 
as part of the law enforcement community, thank you.
    I think one of the reasons that we're having this hearing 
is to express our appreciation, to make sure that even in some 
communities where law enforcement may not feel as appreciated--
and, Mr. Bullock, I'll talk to you about that specifically in 
Austin, Texas--what we want to do today is to say thank you, 
across the Nation, to our law enforcement personnel, to the 
families that support them and allow them to put that uniform 
on every single day to protect and serve.
    I know that when I spoke to our sheriff's department and 
police department, those that are DPS troopers, just on Monday, 
that's exactly what I told them, was, thank you for the service 
that you all do.
    Mr. Bullock, I'll start with you. We have a tragedy of 
untold and immeasurable negative aspects that's unfolding at 
our Southern Border for the past 3\1/2\ years. This committee, 
in particular, has held multiple hearings on that.
    What I'd like to ask you is: In Austin, Texas, tell us 
about the impact of transnational criminal organizations, 
cartel activity, human trafficking, drug trafficking. How has 
that impacted Austin, Texas?
    Mr. Bullock. Well, I think--and the sheriff mentioned it 
earlier, as well--but the influx of new drugs is a major 
concern, as well as, when you talk about human trafficking and 
organized crime activity, they're very resource-intensive 
investigations. Unfortunately, those are resources we lack at 
the moment, which impedes our ability to fully investigate, and 
leads to a likelihood that we're not going to be able to 
investigate everything.
    So my concern overall is that, as you deal with more 
complex crime, as you deal with an influx of individuals who 
are engaged in, you know, criminal activity and--very serious, 
when you're talking about trafficking individuals--that we 
don't have the resources to appropriately interdict and to stop 
that kind of activity.
    Mr. Pfluger. There was a lack of political will, as well, 
inside Travis County, specifically inside Austin. Has that been 
reversed? Do you feel supported by local leaders as far as the 
prosecution goes of these crimes that you're referencing?
    Mr. Bullock. No. We have yet to see that reversed.
    Mr. Pfluger. That's really unfortunate. A lot of those 
officers have come to San Angelo and Midland-Odessa, where I 
live, because they do feel supported there.
    Sheriff, I noticed in your testimony you referenced your 
time as a DEA agent, so I'll ask you the same question. When it 
comes to fentanyl and other illicit drugs that are coming 
across the Southern Border, how has that impacted you, the job 
that you're in right now, the community that you serve?
    Then, you know, maybe give us an idea of what this looks 
like over the past couple of years, 20 years in your time in 
service, and how bad is it right now.
    Sheriff Chapman. Well, as I mentioned before, I was--I 
served all over the country, but I served in Miami back in the 
1980's, and I thought I'd seen the worst of the drug problem 
back then as a special agent. It's far worse now, because, you 
know, we've had, for the last 3 years now, I believe, over 
100,000 people that have died from overdoses. So the tragedy 
associated with it in a different way, it's not--it's not 
organizations competing for product share; it's just people 
dying because they're being fed this fentanyl.
    I can tell you that in Loudoun County we're very proactive. 
We've had several fentanyl forums. We're out there all the 
time. We're working with the schools. We're doing everything 
that we can.
    I mentioned earlier that we've had--we're seeing a decrease 
in the ages of people that are using fentanyl. Our overdoses 
are starting to go down to the teenage level, which we hadn't 
seen a couple years ago. It started with heroin and fentanyl, 
and now it's almost all pure fentanyl now.
    So it does really concern me here. Then I look at the 
problem nationally, and I always, when I give my presentations, 
I say, if you were to fill up the Washington Commanders 
stadium, every single one of those seats, probably you still 
wouldn't have the amount of people that died from overdoses 
last year.
    So it is critical that we address this issue. We've got to 
be proactive on it with the education, Narcan, and all these 
other things that we do, that we're very active on, but also to 
hold these people accountable and stop whatever we can at the 
border, because that's where----
    Mr. Pfluger. Do you think there's accountability at the 
border right now?
    Sheriff Chapman. I think it's a--that it's a porous border, 
so, no, I don't think we're having the accountability we need 
down there.
    Mr. Pfluger. To our other 2 witnesses, I'm sorry we didn't 
have time to come to you again. Thank you for being here.
    I'll reiterate, thank you to all that serve, all those who 
serve, and their families, for sacrificing so much for the 
safety of our communities. It is my sincere hope that we will 
actually get back to accountability.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize the gentlelady from Georgia, Ms. Greene, 
for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I'd like to thank you all for coming to our committee 
today, and thank you for the job that you do.
    Today, I'd like to begin by honoring a police officer in my 
district who died in the line of duty after being exposed to 
fentanyl during an arrest.
    Corporal Christopher Jackson Dye spent his life in service 
to our Nation and to the community of northwest Georgia. He 
committed 12 years of service to the Army, followed by many 
years of law enforcement in Walker County.
    In November 2020, Corporal Dye was conducting an arrest 
when he was exposed to fentanyl. The arrest tragically resulted 
in his passing away from a heart attack associated with the 
fentanyl exposure.
    This week, we honor him along with many other brave men and 
women who have died in the line of duty serving our 
communities. Their commitment to their jobs should always be 
remembered.
    Fentanyl is the No. 1 killer of Americans between the ages 
of 18 and 45. It kills approximately 300 Americans a day, every 
day. In counties throughout the 14th District, from 2019 to 
2022, fentanyl deaths increased by over 350 percent.
    This is something I know that you gentlemen deal with far 
too often.
    According to the Georgia Narcotics Association, 
approximately 7 out of 10 pills on the street are laced with 
fentanyl coming across the Southern Border.
    I'd like to ask each of you, is this something that you're 
having to deal with as well?
    Mr. Mays. Thank you.
    Yes. The short answer's, yes, the drug problem that you're 
speaking of is prevalent in Tennessee, along with the human 
trafficking element that is a part of that also.
    Sheriff Chapman. Absolutely. The porous border is basically 
the cause for all this fentanyl going through the United 
States.
    Mr. Bullock. In Austin, it's something we deal with on a 
daily basis, all throughout the day.
    Mr. Bryant. Fentanyl is an issue that law enforcement is 
dealing with throughout the country.
    Ms. Greene. Yes. Thank you for that.
    Also, you know, for many years in the past, we used to hear 
young men and women say that they wanted to be a police officer 
when they grew up, but unfortunately we're not hearing that as 
much anymore.
    Law enforcement agencies across the country experienced a 
wave of retirements and departures and are struggling to 
recruit the next generation of police officers in the years 
following the BLM and antifa riots, where we saw police 
attacked night after night, continuously, all summer. Over 93 
police cars were burned, and over $2 billion in damages were 
wrought in communities all over America.
    The rate of retirements in some departments rose 45 percent 
with the previous year, according to research on nearly 200 law 
enforcement agencies. At the same time, hiring slowed by 5 
percent.
    The wave had come as local lawmakers and Federal lawmakers 
pledged to enact reforms on police, such as ending the policies 
that give officers immunity for their actions while on duty.
    Studies show there has been a 44 percent increase in 
retirements and an 18 percent increase in resignations in 
police departments.
    In Atlanta, the department has been down 400 to 500 
officers over the past 3 years. One officer who left Atlanta 
said, ``Basically, we're one bullet away from death and one 
mistake away from indictment. So why roll the dice with my 
future when I can go do something else?''
    These are the saddest statements that I think we can hear 
coming from police officers, feeling that they're forced into 
retirement because no one is supporting them on the job.
    In their exit interviews, many of them cited the defund 
movement and lack of support from local elected officials as 
their reason for leaving their departments and leaving law 
enforcement completely.
    But, now, with the Biden administration's open-border 
policies that's opened our border to tens of millions of people 
from over 160 countries all over the world and a steady flow of 
human and drug trafficking, police in America are now on the 
front lines, facing new and staggering dangers in every 
community all over America.
    I'd like to again ask each of you: Can you tell us, is it 
difficult to hire new recruits to be police officers?
    Mr. Mays. I would say, to give you a brief answer, that the 
difficulties you're describing are--similar issues are being 
faced in Tennessee for law enforcement agencies across the 
State.
    Sheriff Chapman. I can't speak for nationally, which I 
think you have spoken for, which is a problem.
    In Loudoun County, we're actually doing pretty well. A lot 
of that has to do with the fact that I'm an elected official of 
a full-service sheriff's office and I answer directly to the 
people.
    Even though I'm an elected official, I'm not--we run an 
apolitical shop, and we support the Constitution, and that's 
what we do. So I don't have--I don't have political agendas 
driving what we do in the law enforcement community. So it 
actually works out well for our community.
    Ms. Greene. I'm happy to hear that.
    Mr. Bullock. In Austin and I'd say in the major city 
centers across Texas, yes, we are dealing with those issues.
    As a matter of fact, we tend to lose officers from our 
department that will go to a smaller department because it has 
a more positive environment that they feel supported in, that 
they want to go there.
    Mr. Bryant. I spoke to Chief Schierbaum just recently as it 
relates to Atlanta Police Department, and they are seeing 
improvements as it relates to recruitment.
    Having discussions with other police chiefs throughout the 
country, what we are seeing is those numbers begin to stabilize 
and a unique effort to recruit and challenge differently in 
their spaces of recruitment. So we are all hopeful.
    Ms. Greene. Well, I certainly hope so. I think supporting 
our police officers is the most important thing that we can do, 
especially as elected officials.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Green. The gentlelady yields.
    I now recognize Mr. Luttrell for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    You know, as we honor the Thin Blue Line of police officers 
that serve this great country, I'm trying to figure out the 
best way to actually say thank you, you know, so the world can 
understand it.
    You know, in the military, as Mr. Crane and the Chairman, 
forward-deployed overseas in a theater of war in the past 20 
years when we were fighting in multiple areas, you know, they 
throw on their body armor, they grab their rifle, they go out 
the wire, they do the things they do. They come home, they 
redeploy back to the United States, they take the armor off, 
they're able to relax, and they're able to spend time with 
their families, they're able to repatriate and cool down.
    I think what is lost sometimes is that the men and women 
that wear the shield wake up every morning, they kiss their 
loved ones goodbye, and they walk out that front door with 
their badge and their weapon system, and they deploy out their 
front door--every single day.
    Now, you hear the statistics in the military of the 
cognitive and the physical struggles of combat and what that 
does to the human body. Those are 6 months at a time. Over a 
period of 10 to 20 years, you do multiple deployments--5, 6, 
10--and then you're expected to come back, and there's a 
healing process.
    There's no off-ramp for the law enforcement officers. Ten, 
20, 30, 40 years, you deploy out your front door every single 
day to every single conflict in your area.
    You know what's the most astonishing thing that most people 
don't realize either? Every single person, 330 million people 
in the continental United States, have your phone number. My 7-
year-old son has your phone number. If something goes wrong, 
he's going to call you, and you will respond.
    I think what has happened is, the narrative has changed in 
a way that law enforcement has in some way become the bad guys 
and girls. It breaks my heart to say that. I don't believe 
that, but it's just something that--it kind of resonates in the 
media and the social media and the platforms that you see and 
the ``defund the police.'' How did this happen?
    Everybody has a bad actor. Everybody has a bad day. People 
do stupid things. Do you blame the entire establishment for a 
bad day at the office? You know, that's--you see that debated 
in this committee here today and in Congress and in your local 
law enforcement agencies.
    But I think we need to take a step back in the American 
public and understand that there is a--the Thin Blue Line is 
something that's very real. It's those men and women that, no 
matter the circumstances, no matter what you see every day, no 
matter what you hear, no matter what you feel in your heart--do 
you know how amazing it would be if you could take your eyes 
out of your head and put it in the American public's eyes, and 
your ears and your heart, and you say, now you see what I see, 
now you hear what I hear, now you feel what I feel, and I'm 
coming for you to help you regardless, and you may hate me 
every second of the way, but I'll be there for you.
    It's just tragic, in a way, that--law enforcement should be 
the most revered asset in our Nation, because you're there to 
save our lives. You're there to do the things that most people 
don't want to do. You go running in that direction.
    That's the best way I can say thank you. I hope it 
resonates with you.
    I don't have any questions for you. As it gets--it will 
always get worse before it gets better. The only thing that I 
ask is you don't leave, you don't walk away from us, as hard as 
it gets. The funding goes up and down, and people do the things 
that they do, but every time you go home and you see your loved 
ones and your kids and you say, ``Man, this is the worse day of 
my entire life,'' get up the next morning and go, ``I'm gonna 
do it again.'' Because if you don't, that--I don't even know 
where to go with that.
    But God bless each and every one of you, and thank you.
    I yield back, sir.
    Mr. Brecheen [presiding]. The gentleman yields.
    I--this is a fun transition--I now recognize myself for 5 
minutes.
    We want to thank all of you again for being here. Sincere 
gratitude for what you do, what you believe in, the rule of 
law, the services that are provided to this country, what you 
represent.
    We honor your courage. We honor those who have lost their 
lives doing what I can't imagine. You know, it's one thing to 
leave your family for extended periods of time; it's another 
thing to leave your family not knowing, when you walk out that 
door, whether or not that day's circumstances would allow you 
to reenter that family dynamic.
    This week, of course, we're recognizing law enforcement and 
police during Police Week, and we acknowledge these challenges.
    Our Nation is facing a crisis because of a culture of 
lawlessness that's been advanced because of a belief system 
that's taken hold. It's a rebellious-type atmosphere that 
highest leaders of our country are bolstering, because we're 
not in solidarity standing up for respect of authority, respect 
of the rule of law.
    We see this, you know, with the ``defund the police'' 
movement that's, you know, just wreaking havoc. It's--as I've 
listened this morning, you all talking about your recruitment, 
lack of ability to encourage for the--just the loss of morale, 
knowing that people from the highest positions of authority 
have your back.
    Specifically, what I hear in Oklahoma is our flood of drugs 
that have come into this country with this, you know--
heightened because of what's happening at the Southern Border.
    In Oklahoma, sadly, we had an initiative petition that, 
under the guise of recreational marijuana, brought marijuana. 
In Oklahoma--I'm not proud of this stat. I don't think--as a 
majority, you will find there's prideness of Oklahomans. But we 
export more marijuana than any other State because of this 
ballot initiative that came in. It's the tie, then, for the 
cartels seizing upon that and sending drugs into our State.
    So let me do this. For Sheriff Chapman and President 
Bullock, how has this problem of drugs flowing in affected you 
and what you're seeing?
    Sheriff Chapman. We had to address the community directly 
with regards to the overdoses that we saw at the school. We had 
9 overdoses in a period of about 3 weeks of students that were 
affiliated--or the students at the school, 4 of which happened 
in the school, 3 of which required Narcan, 2 of which required 
CPR, so it was quite serious.
    What we find is that there's a reluctance to try to get 
that information out. We did our own press release, and it 
caused a little bit of a stir. But what that did was, it really 
prompted Governor Youngkin to immediately put an executive 
order in requiring a 24-hour notification of, to parents of 
that school in the event that somebody overdosed.
    That was then later put forward as legislation, and it 
didn't really pass the way it should've passed, with the 24-
hour notification, which was actually taken out, which was the 
whole purpose of the bill.
    But it does impact us in the sense that, as I mentioned 
earlier, we're seeing younger people doing this. We want to 
protect our children. We want to make sure we've got a safe 
community. That's my biggest concern, is with the fentanyl, the 
proliferation of it, the availability of it, and the impact 
that it's having on our youth.
    Mr. Brecheen. Mr. Bullock, can I transition and just--
because I actually have a question, I think, that I can--help 
me move the narrative, given limited time.
    You talked about the morale issue. I think earlier today 
you talked about, since 2018, you've had a loss of more 
officers than you've had the ability to recruit them.
    So, No. 1, would you speak to how the ``defund the police'' 
movement has impacted the morale? Then talk about the dollar 
loss that you've also seen that's contributed.
    Mr. Bullock. Well, I'd say it's all tied together, because 
the defunding movement as well as the taking away of money from 
our department overall means that we have less of a----
    Mr. Brecheen. When you say taking--I apologize for 
interrupting. When you're talking about the loss of funding----
    Mr. Bullock. Uh-huh.
    Mr. Brecheen [continuing]. Specifically, you're addressing 
your State having--the State of Texas having to shift resources 
to secure our Southern Border, billions of dollars--Federal 
responsibility--and that is having an impact because the State 
is no longer able to help you financially like they were prior.
    Mr. Bullock. That's correct.
    Mr. Brecheen. Please continue on.
    Mr. Bullock. Yes, that's a correct characterization.
    But, I mean, when you're talking about the defunding 
movement overall, a lot of it ties into everything else that 
you're talking about, in that we have people that do not 
support officers when they are trying to enforce the law, and 
so the arrests that they make are tossed out by prosecutors, 
and so people wind up re-offending.
    There's no accountability for criminal activity, and so 
there's a perpetuation of crime that's going on that is leading 
to no type of intervention. That ties in directly with fentanyl 
overdoses; it ties in with officers being exposed to deadly 
substances. That all has a dramatic effect on how officers feel 
they're able to do their job, almost to the comment of, ``Well, 
what's the point?''
    Mr. Brecheen. Yes.
    Well, thank you so very much. You'd think, sitting in the 
chair, you could yield yourself more time, but I won't do that 
to my colleague who's next. So thank you for answering those 
questions.
    With that, I will yield the gentleman from Arizona, Eli 
Crane, his 5 minutes.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, gentlemen, for coming today. Thank you for your 
service. I also want to say thank to you the men and women that 
you're here representing today.
    I want to take a minute to honor the courage and resilience 
of my constituent Sergeant Preston Brogdon. The sergeant, a 
former Marine veteran and a member of a police force in Yavapai 
County, was shot in the line of duty a little over 2 years ago. 
He is a true hero.
    In the face of danger, Sergeant Brogdon selflessly placed 
himself in harm's way to protect his community. His unwavering 
commitment to duty was evident on that fateful day in 2022 when 
he was shot, narrowly escaping a potentially fatal wound.
    The following months were filled with surgeries and 
extensive physical therapy. He inspired many on his road to 
recovery. But his road has not been easy, and he continues to 
navigate what comes next for him and his family.
    He was recently fired by the Yavapai-Apache Nation Police 
Department. Despite facing this adversity, he remains steadfast 
in his recovery, demonstrating remarkable strength and 
determination.
    I bring him up today because I don't want his story to be 
forgotten. Folks like Preston, who sacrificed for our safety, 
need to know that we stand with them, especially when things 
get messy.
    I'm in awe of Sergeant Brogdon's bravery and resilience, 
and it should serve as a shining example to us all. His legacy 
of courage and boldness will forever be remembered with honor 
and gratitude.
    We've talked a little bit about this on this panel, 
gentlemen, about red-flag laws and even whether or not the 
citizens of this country should be allowed to have body armor.
    So I've got a question for you. You know, I apologize, but 
do you guys believe that the Constitutional rights of Americans 
should be dismissed when it increases the operational 
efficiency and safety protections for law enforcement?
    Mr. Mays, I'm going to start with you.
    Mr. Mays. No, I do not.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you.
    Mr. Chapman.
    Sheriff Chapman. I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question?
    Mr. Crane. Yes, sir. Do you believe that the Constitutional 
rights of Americans should be dismissed when it increases the 
operational efficiency and safety protections of law 
enforcement?
    Sheriff Chapman. No. I'm sworn to uphold the Constitution.
    Mr. Crane. That's right.
    Mr. Bullock.
    Mr. Bullock. I would echo the same thing. We take an oath, 
as well, to uphold the Constitution.
    Mr. Crane. Mr. Bryant.
    Mr. Bryant. I agree, we have a responsibility to the 
Constitution.
    Mr. Crane. The reason I bring that up is because I 
constantly hear arguments, usually coming from the other side--
and though often I think they're well-intended, it's this 
constant push-pull that we deal with up here, whether we're 
talking about firearms, whether we're talking about body armor, 
which I heard about today, or whether we're talking about FISA 
and whether or not that whole system should be reformed.
    So I want to challenge you gentlemen, as I thanked you 
earlier for your service, to make sure that we're not--as 
subject-matter experts and people that are often leaned on for 
their advice when it comes to protecting American citizens, 
that we hold those Constitutional rights paramount, even though 
at times it makes it harder for you to do your job.
    I want to yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Brecheen. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Thompson for closing 
remarks.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Let me thank our witnesses for your expert testimony. I 
think what you do every day reflects very clearly in what you 
shared with us.
    I can say that, for the Democrats on this committee, we've 
never, ever voted against law enforcement.
    The nonprofit program for churches and houses of worship 
legislation, we promoted. We started off with just synagogues, 
but then we made it available to mosques and just other houses 
of worship in general, because we have a fundamental belief 
that in America everyone ought to be safe. Whether I'm a Muslim 
or a Jew or a Christian, in our mind, you should be safe.
    The other thing is, the training that was talked about 
today is absolutely essential. In addition to being a hunter, 
I'm a volunteer fireman. I used to show up on scenes in mutual 
aid, and the equipment that we had didn't match the equipment 
of the department we were backing up.
    Sheriff, I know you can appreciate this. We used to have 
frequencies that certain departments would have that the others 
didn't have.
    So we've come a long way, especially after 9/11. We've said 
that first responders have to have the ability to communicate, 
so if it's the police, fire, or whomever, they should be 
talking to each other. The public expects and assumes that 
that's what's happening anyway.
    Well, in 20-plus years, we've made that happen, because we 
said to law enforcement, if you want Federal monies, you're 
going to have to solve the interoperability problem. So that's 
helped. On 
9/11, the police in New York had difficulty communicating with 
the fire department, so we lost a lot of people.
    We've invested a lot. The COPS program--wonderful program. 
We've used it in my district, and it continues to work.
    The fusion centers you talked about--it is clear, those 
fusion centers we created here in Congress and working with 
State and locals, now they're an integral part of how we 
protect and serve the general public. If you want a real fight, 
you talk about doing away with them.
    The last thing: I can't stress training enough. Training is 
absolutely essential. We need to share facilities in the 
training. I encourage you to do that.
    To Mr. Bryant's comments, we have to do a better job of 
recruiting everyone into law enforcement; it can't just be a 
particular group. Law enforcement, they're all protecting 
Americans and upholding the Constitution. The Constitution, 
I've been told, is color-blind. It's the application of the law 
that creates the problem. If we do it in that respect, I think 
we all will be better because of it.
    So we thank you all for your testimony.
    My comments about January 6 were two-fold. I was in the 
Capitol on January 6 and could not get out for almost 4 hours 
because of what was happening. The only way most of us survived 
was because of the law enforcement presence in the Capitol 
protecting those of us who were just trying to certify an 
election.
    But I also had the responsibility of chairing the January 
6th Select Committee. I tried to present a picture of exactly 
what happened. I didn't take sides. But, also, in law 
enforcement, you just--just the facts. We tried to present the 
facts. That's what we did. Ultimately we presented the report.
    I take issue that people who break the law--I don't care 
who they are, they're not hostages. They're crooks. They're 
felons. If they are so adjudicated, then they go to jail, plain 
and simple.
    So, apart from that, again, let me thank the witnesses for 
your expert presentation. If we have any questions, we'll 
submit them for your response.
    Thank you much.
    Mr. Brecheen. The gentleman yields.
    Now for the Chairman's closing remarks.
    Let me just say again thank you, on behalf of the 
committee, for your time. Thank you again for what you 
represent.
    I think most of us see--I heard it even recently, you know, 
in the last few moments--the rule of law, respect for 
authority.
    I heard an interesting statistic this last weekend. I read 
it, actually. America First Policy Institute has a quote--a 
commentary about the likelihood--and just falling under the 
thought pattern of respect of authority. Even on the microcosm 
of family dynamics, fatherlessness in homes produces 20 times 
more likely an incarceration, somebody that's going to do 
something that would lead to incarceration, some crime. Seventy 
percent of those that are addicted to drugs come from a 
fatherless home.
    So we have a cultural shift that has to happen in this 
country, from the lowest level, of us teaching within our 
family dynamics about respect of authority, understanding an 
authority doing what authorities should, No. 1, to love those 
people within that family, showing them responsibility, and 
then, in return, the children then respond with the respect of 
authority.
    So we've got a cultural dynamic that has to change in 
America. I am convinced that those of us that have the 
platform--support for law enforcement begins in the family 
first. I think you all deal with that day after day. For those 
who are having to deal with the aftereffects of a culture 
that's missing the mark on this, thank you for what you do. 
Thank you for your brothers and sisters in arms that have paid 
the ultimate sacrifice.
    With that, the Members of this committee have some 
additional questions for the witnesses. We would ask the 
witnesses to respond to these in writing.
    Pursuant to committee rule VII(D), the hearing record will 
be open for 10 days.
    Without objection, this committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:45 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

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