[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


               SILENT WEAPONS: EXAMINING FOREIGN ANOMALOUS HEALTH INCIDENTS TARGETING 
                  AMERICANS IN THE HOMELAND AND ABROAD

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                                BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                           COUNTERTERRORISM,
                          LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND
                              INTELLIGENCE

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 8, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-62

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
                                     

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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
58-217 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
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                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

                 Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee, Chairman
Michael T. McCaul, Texas             Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi, 
Clay Higgins, Louisiana                  Ranking Member
Michael Guest, Mississippi           Sheila Jackson Lee, Texas
Dan Bishop, North Carolina           Eric Swalwell, California
Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida           J. Luis Correa, California
August Pfluger, Texas                Troy A. Carter, Louisiana
Andrew R. Garbarino, New York        Shri Thanedar, Michigan
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island
Tony Gonzales, Texas                 Glenn Ivey, Maryland
Nick LaLota, New York                Daniel S. Goldman, New York
Mike Ezell, Mississippi              Robert Garcia, California
Anthony D'Esposito, New York         Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
Laurel M. Lee, Florida               Robert Menendez, New Jersey
Morgan Luttrell, Texas               Thomas R. Suozzi, New York
Dale W. Strong, Alabama              Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma              Yvette D. Clarke, New York
Elijah Crane, Arizona
                      Stephen Siao, Staff Director
                  Hope Goins, Minority Staff Director
                       Sean Corcoran, Chief Clerk
                                 ------                                

  SUBCOMMITTEE ON COUNTERTERRORISM, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND INTELLIGENCE

                    August Pfluger, Texas, Chairman
Dan Bishop, North Carolina           Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island, 
Tony Gonzales, Texas                     Ranking Member
Anthony D'Esposito, New York         J. Luis Correa, California
Elijah Crane, Arizona                Daniel S. Goldman, New York
Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee (ex     Thomas R. Suozzi, New York
    officio)                         Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi 
                                         (ex officio)
               Michael Koren, Subcommittee Staff Director
          Brittany Carr, Minority Subcommittee Staff Director
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               Statements

The Honorable August Pfluger, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of Texas, and Chairman, Subcommittee on 
  Counterterrorism, Law Enforcement, and Intelligence:
  Oral Statement.................................................     1
  Prepared Statement.............................................     2
The Honorable J. Luis Correa, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of California, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on 
  Counterterrorism, Law Enforcement, and Intelligence:
  Oral Statement.................................................     3
  Prepared Statement.............................................     4
The Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on 
  Homeland Security:
  Prepared Statement.............................................     5

                               Witnesses

Lieutenant Colonel Greg Edgreen, United States Army, (Ret.), CEO 
  and Founder, Advanced Echelon LLC:
  Oral Statement.................................................     6
  Prepared Statement.............................................     8
Mr. Christo Grozev, Lead Investigative Journalist, The Insider, 
  Der Spiegel, Bellingcat:
  Oral Statement.................................................    12
  Prepared Statement.............................................    14
Mr. Mark S. Zaid, Founding Partner, Mark S. Zaid, PC:
  Oral Statement.................................................    15
  Prepared Statement.............................................    16

 
SILENT WEAPONS: EXAMINING FOREIGN ANOMALOUS HEALTH INCIDENTS TARGETING 
                  AMERICANS IN THE HOMELAND AND ABROAD

                              ----------                              


                         Wednesday, May 8, 2024

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                    Committee on Homeland Security,
                         Subcommittee on Counterterrorism, 
                         Law Enforcement, and Intelligence,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:04 p.m., at 
Room 310, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. August Pfluger 
[Chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Pfluger, Crane, Correa, and 
Goldman.
    Also present: Representative Swalwell.
    Chairman Pfluger. The Committee on Homeland Security, 
Subcommittee on Counterterrorism, Law Enforcement and 
Intelligence will come to order. The purpose of this hearing is 
to receive testimony from expert witnesses from the National 
Security realm that will inform our understanding of Anomalous 
Health Incidents, or more commonly known as Havana Syndrome.
    I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Good 
afternoon, and welcome to the Subcommittee on Counterterrorism, 
Law Enforcement, and Intelligence. We are holding this 
important hearing to examine Anomalous Health Incidents, 
otherwise known as AHI's or Havana Syndrome, and discuss the 
potential targeting of U.S. Government officials and their 
families in the homeland and elsewhere. Although this issue has 
recently gained significant media attention, the issues 
surrounding Anomalous Health Incidents, or Havana Syndrome are 
not new. Dating back to 2014, a number of us diplomatic, 
military, and intelligence officials and their families have 
reported major medical symptoms that have affected their 
auditory and sensory motor skills. These issues became public 
in late 2016 after a group of Canadian diplomats and U.S. 
Government employees and their families assigned to the U.S. 
embassy in Havana, Cuba, began experiencing similar symptoms. 
After the reported incidents in Havana, Government officials 
and their families began reporting similar symptoms in the 
People's Republic of China, Vietnam, Germany, Austria, Serbia, 
Australia, Taiwan, Colombia, as well as here in the United 
States. Multiple agencies within the intelligence community 
have conducted assessments in an attempt to identify the 
factors that cause AHI's, or who, if anyone, is responsible for 
these incidents. Unfortunately, none of these studies could 
conclusively identify the causes of these incidents.
    However, the State Department commissioned a study through 
the National Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine 
that found that, I quote, ``unusual presentation of acute, 
directional, or location-specific early phase signs, symptoms, 
and observations reported by Department of State employees to 
be consistent with the effects of directed, pulsed radio 
frequency energy. Many of the chronic nonspecific symptoms are 
also consistent with known radio frequency effects, such as 
dizziness, headache, fatigue, nausea, anxiety, cognitive 
deficits, and memory loss.'' Since the National Academy's 
findings, generally, the IC, the intelligence community, has 
stood by their initial findings and maintains that the origins 
of these symptoms are still unknown and not likely to be 
derived from the actions of a foreign adversary.
    Today, we hope to gain a better understanding of 
anonymous--Anomalous Health Incidents to address this pressing 
issue, and it is paramount that we acknowledge the gravity of 
this situation. I think when you really look at what we are 
doing today, it is to have a transparent discussion, to talk to 
our 3 expert witnesses, to hear in a manner consistent with 
what they went through, what the facts are. As Congress, the 
role on oversight is so important. That is what we are doing 
today. So, I am proud that this is a bipartisan effort and I 
now recognize the Ranking Member, the gentleman from 
California, Mr. Correa, for his opening statement.
    [The statement of Chairman Pfluger follows:]
                  Statement of Chairman August Pfluger
                              May 8, 2024
    Good afternoon, and welcome to the Subcommittee on 
Counterterrorism, Law Enforcement, and Intelligence.
    We are holding this important hearing to examine anomalous health 
incidents (AHI) and discuss the potential targeting of U.S. Government 
officials and their families in the homeland and elsewhere.
    Although this issue has recently gained significant media 
attention, the issues surrounding anomalous health incidents, or 
Havanna Syndrome, are not new.
    Dating back to 2014, a number of U.S. diplomatic, military, and 
intelligence officials and their families have reported major medical 
symptoms that have affected their auditory and sensory motor skills.
    These issues became public in late 2016 after a group of Canadian 
diplomats and U.S. Government employees and their families, assigned to 
the U.S. Embassy in Havana, Cuba began experiencing similar symptoms.
    After the reported incidents in Havana, Government officials and 
their families began reporting similar symptoms in the People's 
Republic of China, Vietnam, Germany, Austria, Serbia, Australia, 
Taiwan, Colombia, and here in the United States.
    Multiple agencies within the intelligence community (IC) have 
conducted assessments in an attempt to identify the factors that cause 
AHIs, or who, if anyone, is responsible for these incidents.
    Unfortunately, none of these studies could conclusively identify 
the causes of these incidents.
    However, the State Department commissioned a study through the 
National Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine that found: 
``unusual presentation of acute, directional, or location-specific 
early phase signs, symptoms, and observations reported by DOS 
[Department of State] employees to be consistent with the effects of 
directed, pulsed radio frequency energy. Many of the chronic, 
nonspecific symptoms are also consistent with known radio frequency 
effects, such as dizziness, headache, fatigue, nausea, anxiety, 
cognitive deficits, and memory loss.''
    Since the National Academies' findings, generally the IC has stood 
by their initial findings and maintains that the origins of these 
symptoms are still unknown and not likely to be derived from the 
actions of a foreign adversary.
    Today, we hope to gain a better understanding of anomalous health 
incidents to address this pressing issue.
    It is paramount that we acknowledge the gravity of the situation.
    We must work to ensure that those suffering these debilitating 
symptoms are properly cared for, and if foreign malign activity is the 
cause of these anomalous health incidents, then we must take steps to 
neutralize the threat actors responsible to include deterring their 
ability to operate with impunity in the homeland, targeting our 
intelligence professionals and diplomats but also putting the American 
public in harm's way.
    I look forward to hearing this distinguished panel today and 
working in a bipartisan fashion to understand the facts related to 
anomalous health incidents and find solutions to address these issues.

    Mr. Correa. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I agree with you. This 
is an important issue. Deals with the health and welfare of our 
Government officials as well as others. Thank you again, Mr. 
Pfluger, and good afternoon to all of you. Welcome to witnesses 
today. I am here today filling in for our Ranking Member, Mr. 
Magaziner, who I am happy to say he and Julia welcomed their 
daughter, baby daughter, to their family just I think a day or 
so ago. So Magaziner, Mr. Magaziner, enjoy your time with your 
beautiful family. Today's hearing has been called to examine 
the Anomalous Health Incidents affecting a range of U.S. 
national security personnel, including intelligence officials, 
members of our armed forces, and diplomats. Sometimes referred 
as Havana Syndrome, Anomalous Health Incidents were first 
reported, as the Chairman suggested back in 2014, by U.S. 
personnel assigned to our embassy in Havana. Many have 
described the symptoms that were chronic and debilitating. 
Sadly, these incidents have not been isolated to Havana. U.S. 
personnel have reported such incidents as Hanoi, Vienna, 
London, Moscow, as well as here in the United States. In 
Washington, DC, Virginia, and Pennsylvania. There have been 
several investigations into the cause of these incidents, 
including a study by the National Academy of Sciences, 
Engineering, and Medicine, several studies by JASON, an 
independent group of expert scientists, a brain imaging study 
by the University of Pennsylvania, as well as others. That list 
is not exhaustive.
    Today we have the privilege of hearing from retired 
Lieutenant Colonel Greg Edgreen among our witnesses who ran the 
Pentagon's investigation into these situations. We also 
understand the Intelligence and Foreign Service Affairs 
committees have been engaged in an intensive bipartisan 
oversight of these Anomalous Health Incidences for a while now. 
Last year the intelligence community completed a coordinated 
assessment regarding the causes of these incidents and found no 
evidence of adversary--adversarial activity. I know the lack of 
a finding in these cases after nearly 8 years of incidences is 
a source of frustration for the victims, and frankly, for all 
of us as well. I am pleased that recently the Biden 
administration came out with a statement that they will 
continue to conduct comprehensive examinations of these effects 
and their possible causes. The Director of National 
Intelligence, Ms. Avril Haines, reiterated these comments in 
her testimony to the Senate last week, stating that the 
intelligence community is continuing its investigations into 
what happened in these situations.
    The committee, this committee, I should say, is dedicated 
to working with their partners, the administration, and other 
relevant Congressional committees to ensure that such 
examinations, investigations proceed and that we take care of 
our people. Let me repeat, we will take into, continue to take 
care of those afflicted by the Havana Syndrome, and we will 
continue to look for sources and causes. Mr. Chairman, I want 
to ask also unanimous consent that Mr. Eric Swalwell be 
permitted to sit in this committee and ask questions of today's 
witnesses.
    Chairman Pfluger. Without objection, so ordered.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With that, I yield.
    [The statement of Hon. Correa follows:]
               Prepared Statement of Hon. J. Luis Correa
                              May 8, 2024
    Today's hearing has been called to examine anomalous health 
incidents affecting a range of U.S. national security personnel, 
including intelligence officials, members of our armed services, and 
diplomats. Sometimes referred to as ``Havana syndrome,'' anomalous 
health incidents were first reported in November 2016 by U.S. personnel 
assigned to our embassy in Havana, Cuba. Many have described symptoms 
that were chronic and debilitating. Unfortunately, these incidents have 
not been isolated to Havana.
    U.S. personnel have reported incidents in Hanoi, Vienna, London, 
Moscow--and here in the United States--in Washington, DC, Virginia, and 
Pennsylvania. There have been several investigations into the cause of 
these incidents--including:
   a study by the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering, 
        and Medicine.
   several studies by JASON, an independent group of expert 
        scientists that advise the U.S. Government on sensitive matters 
        of science and technology.
   a brain imaging study by the University of Pennsylvania and 
        another by the National Institutes of Health.
   an intelligence community assessment.
    And that list is not exhaustive. Today, we have the privilege of 
hearing from Retired Lieutenant Colonel Greg Edgreen, who ran the 
Pentagon's investigation into the incidents.
    Committee staff have met with several others, including former U.S. 
officials, scientists, and doctors who have been part of such 
investigations or have independently examined the matter. We also 
understand that the Intelligence and Foreign Affairs Committees have 
been engaged in intensive and bipartisan oversight of anomalous health 
incidents for a while now.
    Last year, the intelligence community completed a coordinated 
assessment regarding the cause of these incidents and found no evidence 
of adversary activity. I know that the lack of attribution--after 
nearly 8 years of incidents--is a source of frustration for victims, 
and frankly for us all. But let this hearing serve as evidence that we 
are committed to getting answers and maintaining and strengthening the 
care provided to those who have suffered.
    I am heartened by the Biden administration's statement last month 
that they will continue to conduct comprehensive examinations of the 
effects and the potential causes. Director of National Intelligence 
Avril Haines reiterated this commitment in her testimony before the 
Senate last week, stating that the intelligence community is continuing 
to investigate what's happening with AHIs.
    The United States Government, and this Congress, must look under 
every rock to identify the cause of these health incidents. In the mean 
time, we owe it to the men and women who serve this country to ensure 
that the Federal Government provides them with every resource we can 
muster to ensure they are taken care of.
    This committee is dedicated to working with our partners in the 
administration, and on other relevant Congressional committees, to 
ensure that such examinations proceed and that we take care of our 
people.

    Chairman Pfluger. I think the Ranking Member and other 
Members of the subcommittee are reminded that opening 
statements may be submitted for the record.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Thompson follows:]
             Statement of Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson
                              May 8, 2024
    Today the Subcommittee on Counterterrorism, Law Enforcement, and 
Intelligence is meeting to examine anomalous health incidents affecting 
our U.S. Government personnel--both abroad and here in the homeland.
    Since 2016, U.S. officials have reported nearly 1,500 cases of 
anomalous health incidents or ``Havana Syndrome.'' Affected officials 
have reported physical symptoms that began while on official 
assignments not only in Havana, but in Germany, China, Colombia, and in 
Washington, DC--to name just a few locations. Since reports began in 
2016, there have been several theories about the cause of the anomalous 
health incidents, including the possibility that symptoms could be the 
result of attacks by foreign adversaries.
    In March 2023, the intelligence community concluded that it is 
``very unlikely'' a foreign adversary is responsible for the reported 
AHIs. However--all intelligence community agencies, and I quote, `` . . 
. agree that U.S. personnel sincerely and honestly reported their 
experiences, including those that were painful or traumatic . . . ''.
    A recent study by the National Institutes of Health, which analyzed 
MRI brain scans of the affected Government officials, confirmed the 
very real symptoms of the affected participants. I am a firm believer 
in leaving no stone unturned, so it is imperative that the intelligence 
community and others continue to collect information and analyze any 
new evidence. We owe it to our public servants to not only continue 
providing care to affected employees, but also to scrutinize possible 
causes and remain vigilant against threats. I am confident that the 
Biden administration will do just that.
    In contrast to the Trump administration, which was criticized by 
affected employees, the public, and bipartisan Members of Congress for 
failing to take this issue seriously, the Biden administration 
undertook a rigorous review of available information and implemented 
the ``HAVANA Act'' to ensure care and benefits for affected employees.
    The Biden administration has also stated it will direct continued 
studies into the potential causes of AHIs. Just a few days ago, the 
Director of National Intelligence testified that the intelligence 
community is continuing its investigation. I am glad to be having 
today's conversation, and I look forward to hearing the witnesses' 
testimony and recommendations for Congress.

    Chairman Pfluger. We are pleased to have a distinguished 
panel of witnesses before us today on this very important 
topic. I ask that our witnesses please rise. Raise your right 
hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give 
before the Committee on Homeland Security of the U.S. House of 
Representatives will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God? Thank you.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Chairman Pfluger. Let the record reflect that the witnesses 
have answered in the affirmative. I would now like to formally 
introduce our witnesses. Mr. Gregory Edgreen is a retired army 
lieutenant colonel and a former U.S. Government official. He 
led the investigation efforts for the Defense Intelligence 
Agency into the causes of AHI's and who, if anyone, was 
responsible for causing these incidents. Mr. Edgreen's career 
has covered 8 countries and 3 U.S. embassies. He now serves as 
the CEO of Advanced Echelon LLC, a company in the United States 
with interagency experience leading AHI efforts. Mr. Christo 
Grozev is an award-winning journalist and the lead investigator 
for the Insider. He is also a member of Bellingcat Productions, 
which looks to translate Bellingcat investigations into a range 
of new media products. He was the lead Russia researcher at 
Bellingcat until February 2023. His investigations into the 
identity of the suspects in the 2018 Novichok poisonings in the 
United Kingdom earned him and his team the European Prize for 
Investigative Journalism. Last, Mr. Mark Zaid is a Washington, 
DC-based attorney who specializes in crisis management and 
handling administrative and litigation matters mainly relating 
to national security, international law, foreign sovereign and 
diplomatic immunity, and the Freedom of Information/Privacy 
Acts. Mr. Zaid often represents former and current Federal 
employees, including military officers, defense contractors, 
and other national security professionals and whistleblowers.
    Again, I thank the witnesses for being here today. I will 
offer each of you an opening statement. I know you have 
submitted those as well, so please, if you don't mind, 
summarize it. We have a timer to keep to 5 minutes, so that 
then we will go into the question-and-answer period. I now 
recognize Lieutenant Colonel Greg Edgreen for 5 minutes on his 
opening statement.

  STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT COLONEL GREG EDGREEN, UNITED STATES 
       ARMY (RET.), CEO AND FOUNDER, ADVANCED ECHELON LLC

    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, 
Ranking Members, Congressmen, it is an honor to speak with you 
today and give voice to the unseen, the U.S. Government, AHI 
survivors and their families. My name is Greg Edgreen. I stood 
up and led the DIA's task force, which was in charge of taking 
care of our survivors and determining the cause. For 
background, I am not an analyst. I am a retired army and 
intelligence officer. The following are my personal opinions 
and do not represent the opinions of the Government. Given the 
classification of this topic, many of my comments will have to 
be made at a future closed-door session. As a country, we have 
been here before. Most people think this all started in Havana 
in 2016, the widely-reported Havana Syndrome. This led to the 
United States withdrawing most of its staff and ending 
rapprochement between Havana and Washington. But before Havana 
Syndrome, there was the Moscow Signal. Soviet intelligence 
bathed the U.S. embassy in Moscow with microwave transmissions. 
The health effects were similar to what we see today. There are 
many examples of syndromes and ailments from Americans injured 
in the line of duty that the Government did not recognize for 
many years, which were eventually proven Agent Orange, used in 
Vietnam, the Gulf War Syndrome, burn pits during the forever 
wars of Iraq and Afghanistan. In all of these examples, America 
took too long to acknowledge these injuries, and our service 
members languished without care.
    Havana Syndrome is no different. The gaslighting of AHI 
survivors continues to this day as history repeats itself. 
Throughout all this, I learned America's best men and women in 
national security are being targeted and neutralized in a 
global campaign. AHI's have been reported in the press in every 
continent except for Antarctica, with a large percentage of 
these attacks occurring in the homeland. In America. In this 
town, the impact has been that mission-critical Government 
officials working abroad and at home are being removed from 
their post with TBI's. Don't take my word for it. Nikolai 
Patrushev, the Secretary of Russia's Security Council, wrote in 
September 2023, and I quote, ``in recent years, hundreds of 
employees of foreign intelligence services involved in 
organizing intelligence and subversive activities against our 
country have been neutralized''. The American people are losing 
strategic warning and decision-making advantage in great power 
competition. America's eyes are being blinded, their voices 
muted, their ears deafened. This is emboldening our other 
strategic rivals, such as China, and could encourage North 
Korea and Iran to take similar actions with no repercussions.
    We collected a large body of data, ranging from signals 
intelligence to human intelligence, to open-source reporting 
and everything in between. Unfortunately, I can't get into 
specifics based on the classification, but I can tell you. At 
an early stage, I started to focus on Moscow, and consistently 
there was a Russian nexus. Since 2010, the number of 
counterintelligence incidents began to rise, and so did Russian 
gray zone activities. These included assassinations, 
poisonings, sabotage attacks against NATO allies and others, 
many of which has been documented by Christo. After talking 
with the survivors who were hit in the United States and 
abroad, I quickly realized these were no longer isolated 
incidents. There were reports of CI incidents which included 
harassment, room intrusions, houses being defiled, tossed, pets 
poisoned, assaults on our personnel, officers and diplomats 
being drugged, doxing, families harassed. Then an attack via 
directed energy, a red line to many because of the debilitating 
nature of these weapons, the U.S. Government never hit back, 
and our Nation's hidden heroes continue to be targeted today.
    Investigators often talk about motive, means, and 
opportunity. First, let us look at the motive. When President 
Putin says things like, if one looks into the security sphere, 
new physical principles, weapons will ensure the security of 
any country in the near-historic perspective, we understand 
this very well and are working on it. If you know anything 
about the Russian Ministry of Defense, this is referring to 
directed energy weapons. Second, the means. Look at the 
contract for directed energy weapons, which is uncovered by my 
colleague Christo. Look at the open-source photos of Putin 
awarding scientists prizes for innovation for weapons based on 
new physical principles. Third is the opportunity. Of course 
they can do this. As openly reported in 2014, 3 CIA officers 
were stationed in Ukraine that year during a popular revolt 
that overthrew Moscow's preferred leader. Later, those CIA 
officers went on to other assignments and reported AHI attacks, 
one in Uzbekistan, one is in Vietnam, and the third officer's 
family hit in London. Despite this large body of data, the ODNI 
said, there is nothing to see here. Everything is dismissed. 
Last month, the NIH said there is no evidence of physical 
damage, despite all survivors reporting the same symptoms. This 
same study is now under review for its methodology.
    I would like to point this committee to the AHI experts 
panel, whose findings were released in 2022, which saw all the 
same intelligence and information we did, but came to the 
opposite conclusion of the DNI. They noted that the signs and 
symptoms of AHI's are genuine and compelling, and that pulsed 
electromagnetic energy, particularly in the radio frequency 
range, explains the core characteristics. I think the bar for 
AHI attribution was set so high because we do not, as a country 
and a Government, want to face some very hard truths. Can we 
secure America? Are these massive counterintelligence failures? 
Can we protect our people on American soil? Is this an act of 
war? Despite our history of walking away those from those who 
sacrifice for their country, I am optimistic. With 
Congressional support, with your support and an informed 
public, it is time to take action. This is a nonpartisan issue 
which has spanned several administration. Let us start to get 
this right with Executive and Legislative action first.
    Chairman Pfluger. Mr. Edgreen, I am going to go ahead and 
if you can wrap up, we will get to the----
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Mr. Chairman, could I have 2 
more minutes, please? One more minute?
    Chairman Pfluger. One more minute is fine.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. We need to execute existing 
funding with the Defense Health Program, which was allocated to 
take care of the survivors and their families. We should fully 
implement the Havana Act. We need a VA diagnostic code, because 
right now there is none. We need to award Purple Hearts and 
their civilian equivalents. On the Legislative front, we need a 
new NDAA that covers this and a Havana Act. I would like to 
thank this committee for their attention in this issue. Thank 
you to Orianna Zill, Michael Ray, Michael Weiss, and Christo 
for keeping this issue alive. I urge this committee to take 
care of our unseen survivors, execute existing funding, and 
most importantly, pressure the Government to fight back. Thank 
you.
    [The prepared statement of Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen 
follows:]
                   Prepared Statement of Greg Edgreen
                              May 8, 2024
    My name is Greg Edgreen, I stood up and led DIA's Anomalous Health 
Incident (AHI) organization which was tasked to take care of our 
survivors and determine the cause. For background, I am not an analyst, 
I am a retired Army and intelligence officer and my career has spanned 
8 countries and 3 embassies. I believe I was selected for this 
position, which was my first and subsequently last HQs assignment, due 
to my natural bias toward action and my experiences with Great Power 
Competition. I am here to give voice to all USG AHI Survivors, and 
their families. The following are my personal opinions and do not 
represent the opinions of the Government. Given the classification of 
this topic, some of my comments will have to be made in a future 
closed-door session.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Please forward the original copy of this testimony to the 
Homeland Security Committee if any portion of this document is 
redacted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We, as a country, have been here before.
    Most people think this all started in Havana in 2016, the widely-
reported ``Havana Syndrome'', consisting of mysterious health incidents 
impacting foreign embassy staff living in Cuba. This led to the United 
States withdrawing most of its embassy staff and suspending consular 
services in 2017 while ending rapprochement between Havana and 
Washington.
    Those attacked reported a range of conditions including 
debilitating migraines, perceived sounds, dizziness, vertigo, fatigue, 
nausea, anxiety, cognitive difficulties, and memory loss. Some started 
to develop rare cancers, tumors, and heart conditions despite no pre-
existing or genetic conditions over time. In some cases, diplomats and 
intelligence officers were forced to leave active service due to 
complications from their conditions. Early reports were dismissed as 
psychosomatic or cases of mass hysteria.
    Before Havana Syndrome there was the Moscow Signal. From the 1950's 
to 1970's, Soviet intelligence bathed the U.S. Embassy and diplomatic 
quarters in Moscow with microwave transmissions every day. The health 
effects were similar to what we see today. Again, the survivors were 
accused of mass hysteria and told nothing about the causes of their 
symptoms, until the Government finally informed the staff in 1976 at a 
confidential meeting. The U.S. Embassy personnel immediately leaked to 
U.S. newspapers, setting off a major scandal in U.S.-Soviet relations 
and resulted in a Congressional Investigation which was completed in 
1979.
    As a result, about 350 adults who were Moscow embassy employees or 
dependents were tested and compared with a control group of 1,000 
diplomats present in the United States. Lymphocyte counts (a type of 
white blood cells) from the Moscow Embassy subjects were an average 41 
percent higher than the control group, proving that there had been 
major health impacts.
    Between 1962 and 1971, the U.S. military sprayed millions of 
gallons of ``tactical herbicides'' or Agent Orange over Vietnam. The 
U.S. Government also denied Agent Orange was causing various types of 
cancers, diseases, and heart problems until Congress took action in the 
1980's and allocated money for care and compensation. With the VA 
accusing the combat veterans of fabricating ailments.
    The Gulf War Syndrome was finally proven last year in 2023, after 
hundreds of thousands of combat veterans reported symptoms related to 
their exposure to sarin gas. Again, the USG claimed the veterans 
symptoms were psychosomatic.
    Burn pits during the forever wars of Iraq and Afghanistan, led to 
the deaths of thousands of service members, including the President's 
son, who served in Iraq the same year I was there. The Government 
denied the cancers and other ailments, and recently the 2022 PACT act 
was passed by Congress.
    These same wars also taught us about Traumatic Brain Injuries 
(TBIs) from Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) and that some wounds 
have no entry or exit wounds, so we created the National Intrepid 
Center of Excellence or (NICOE) at Walter Reed and started awarding 
Purple Hearts to these attacks.
    We continue to forget those wounded while serving their countries.
    America has a long history of not taking care of those who were 
wounded when fighting for their country, and Havana Syndrome is no 
different. Except this time, a large percentage of the survivors are 
not able to come forward and speak to the press or Congress, because of 
their security clearances and bureaucratic regulations. They were kept 
in the shadows by faulty IC assessments and NIH studies, where 
wordsmithing and bureaucratic analytical processes made the case there 
was nothing to see.
    The gaslighting of AHI survivors continues to this day in some 
Government agencies, as history repeats itself.
    America's best men and women in national security are being 
targeted and neutralized around the world in a global campaign. 
Anomalous Health Incidents (AHIs) have been reported in the press in 
every continent except for Antarctica, with a large percentage of these 
attacks occurring in the homeland, on American soil. They fought for 
the American people and were wounded in the line of duty.
    The impact has been that the intelligence officers, DoD personnel, 
national security experts, and our diplomats working abroad and at home 
are being removed from their posts with traumatic brain injuries. 
They're being neutralized.
    Don't take my word for it. Nikolai Patrushev, the secretary of 
Russia's Security Council, wrote in September 2023 article that: ``In 
recent years, hundreds of employees of foreign intelligence services, 
as well as other persons involved in organizing intelligence and 
subversive activities against our country and our strategic partners, 
have been identified and neutralized''.
    This is a victory lap that is meant to discourage other survivors 
from coming forward, and sow division among our ranks. It's as if 
Moscow is saying ``The USG turned their back on you and doesn't believe 
you, and we know it. We will continue the attacks.''
    Our best men and women have been removed from their posts, at home 
and abroad. The American people are losing strategic warning and 
decision-making advantage in great power competition with Russia, 
China, North Korea and Iran. America's eyes are being blinded, their 
voices muted, and their ears deafened.
    This is emboldening our other strategic rivals such as China, and 
could encourage North Korea and Iran to take similar actions with no 
repercussions.
    I would like to briefly talk about our investigation. We were 
collecting a large body of data, ranging from signals intelligence, to 
human intelligence, to open-source reporting and everything in between. 
Anything regarding the internet, travel records, financial records, or 
on-line activities. Unfortunately I can't get into specifics, based on 
the classification.
    But I can tell you at a very early stage, I started to focus on 
Moscow.
    One of the things I started to notice was the caliber of our 
officers that were being targeted. This wasn't happening to our worst 
or our middle-range officers. This was happening to our top 5 percent, 
10 percent performing officers across the Defense Intelligence Agency.
    And consistently there was a Russia nexus. There was some angle 
where they had worked against Russia, focused on Russia, and done 
extremely well.
    I also noticed that a large number of attacks were occurring in 
nations that were traditionally aligned with Moscow but starting to 
develop relations with Washington.
    AHIs resulted in the end of rapprochement between Havana and 
Washington. The widely-reported attack in the news on 11 personnel, in 
Hanoi on the eve of Vice President Harris's 2021 visit to announce a 
strategic comprehensive partnership also endangered Washington/Hanoi 
relations.
    Who would stand to gain from such attacks? Havana? Hanoi? Or did 
Moscow stand to gain the most, knowing that the USG would automatically 
accuse the host nation of such attacks. Can you imagine? Non-lethal 
directed energy weapon attacks against our diplomats, DoD, and intel 
officers had such a strategic impact?
    I don't know when it started but from 2010 onwards, the rules of 
engagement shifted in the shadows. It used to be a gentleman's game, we 
did not attack each other's officers and families. The number of CI 
incidents began to rise, and so did Russian grey zone activities. Grey 
zone activities which have been widely documented in the press by 
colleagues at Bellingcat which included assassinations, poisonings, and 
sabotage attacks against NATO allies.
    After talking with the survivors who were hit in the United States 
and abroad, I quickly realized these were not isolated incidences.
    There were reports of counterintelligence incidents which often 
included: harassment at customs and immigration, room intrusions, 
houses being tossed or defiled, animals and pets poisoned, assaults on 
our personnel, officers and diplomats being drugged, doxxing--where 
foreign news outlets published the personal information about our 
officers, cars being vandalized, families harassed and followed, then 
an attack, via directed energy, a red line to many, because of the 
debilitating nature of these weapons.
    The U.S. Government never hit back and the problem continues to 
this day.
    Despite all of this our group maintained neutrality to avoid 
confirmation bias by conducting deep dives into all great power 
competitors, but I still kept coming back to Moscow.
    People in the FBI often talk about motive, means, and opportunity 
when it comes to their investigations.
    Motive.--Look at Putin and Lavrov recent comments.
    President Putin said at the 8th Eastern Economic Forum last 
September ``If one looks into the security sphere, new physical 
principles weapons will ensure the security of any country in the near-
historic perspective. We understand this very well and are working on 
it,''
    According to Russia's Ministry of Defense website, ``weapons based 
on new physical principles'' involves the use of novel technologies 
like directed energy and pulsed radio frequency.
    Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said the United States is 
``directly at war'' with Moscow at a U.N. general Assembly meeting the 
same month.
    The motive is there.
    Means.--Look at the contract for directed energy weapons which was 
uncovered by my colleague and documented in the press. Look at open-
source photos of President Putin awarding scientists Presidential 
Prizes in Science and Innovation for their work in weapons based on new 
physical principles which ``may be used in the fight against 
terrorism.''
    Opportunity.--who has a global footprint and a robust capability 
here in the homeland, where have we seen their people around the 
attacks? Look at the intercepts and on-line activities?
    Look at some of the cases in the news. As reported by 60 Minutes, 
for example, in 2014, 3 CIA officers were stationed in Ukraine, 
Vladimir Putin's obsession. Two-thousand fourteen was the year that a 
popular revolt overthrew Putin's preferred leader. Later, those CIA 
officers went on to other assignments and reported being hit, 1 in 
Uzbekistan, 1 in Vietnam, and the third officer's family was hit in 
London.
    Despite this large body of data, the Office of the Director of 
National Intelligence said last year it's ``very unlikely a foreign 
adversary is responsible.'' But the DNI also acknowledged that some 
intelligence agencies had only ``low'' or ``moderate'' confidence in 
that assessment. Last month, the National Institutes of Health reported 
results of brain scans. NIH said there's no evidence of physical damage 
despite all survivors reporting the same symptoms. This same study is 
now under review for its methodology and promising care in exchange for 
survivors to be lab rats.
    The Director of National Intelligence says the symptoms probably 
result from `` . . . pre-existing conditions, conventional illnesses, 
and environmental factors.'' Yet, the DNI and those agencies do not 
follow up with the survivors and tell them what those pre-existing 
conditions or environmental factors are, which hurts the possibility of 
long-term care.
    I would point this committee to the AHI expert panel whose findings 
were released in 2022, which saw all of the same intelligence and 
information we did, but came to the opposite conclusion.
    Departments and agencies provided the panel with dozens of 
briefings and more than 1,000 Classified documents on a range of 
scientific, medical, and intelligence topics. This information included 
the findings of compartmented programs sensitive intelligence 
reporting, and AHI incident reports and trend analyses. Affected 
individuals also shared their personal experiences and medical records.
    Their key findings included:
   The signs and symptoms of AHIs are genuine and compelling.
   Pulsed electromagnetic energy, particularly in the 
        radiofrequency range, plausibly explains the core 
        characteristics.
   Psychosocial factors alone cannot account for the AHIs.
    I urge this committee to read the unredacted version of the AHI 
experts panel which outlines more impactful information.
    This report ended with the following: ``The panel was moved by the 
experiences of individuals affected by AHIs. They deserve the best 
possible care, as well as appreciation for their sacrifices.''
    I think the bar for AHI attribution was set so high because we did 
not, as a country, and a Government, want to face some very hard 
truths.
    Can we secure America? Are these massive counterintelligence 
failures? Can we protect American soil and our people on American soil? 
Are we being attacked? And if we're being attacked, is that an act of 
war?
    After what I learned in my Classified investigation, I retired from 
the Army to start a company to help the victims. We hope to channel 
Government contracts into treatment programs for the survivors using 
allocated funds.
    This problem has existed in one form or another since President 
Dwight D. Eisenhower was in office and it is time to take a new path. 
We need to take care of the survivors and seek attribution so we can 
stop these attacks on our people.
    Despite our history of walking away from those who sacrificed for 
their country, I am optimistic. With Congressional support and an 
informed public, it is time to take action. This is a non-partisan 
issue which has spanned several administrations. America loves a good 
underdog, and there is no greater underdog than this group of AHI 
survivors we have.
    We can do two things which will set this right, Executive action 
and Legislation.
    The first, is to execute existing funding in the Defense Health 
Program which was allocated to take care of DoD survivors and their 
families. As you know, Walter Reed is the central hub for U.S. 
Government AHI care, executing this funding helps everyone.
    We should fully implement the HAVANA Act to ensure payments are 
made, and we need a VA Diagnostic code for AHIs to ensure proper 
compensation and disability benefits for active-duty servicemen who are 
not covered by the HAVANA act.
    We tried working this from 2021 unsuccessfully, similar to our 
efforts with Purple Hearts. We need to award Purple Hearts, Secretary 
awards in the Department of State, and exceptional service medals in 
the IC.
    I am personally aware of 3 Purple Heart citations which were 
halted; your Congressional follow-up on these issues would be extremely 
impactful.
    On the Legislative front, this issue needs to be covered in a NDAA 
and a new Havana Act.
    NDAA.--Congress should designate the DoD the central clearing house 
for the U.S. Government on AHIs, in terms of care, attribution, and 
they also have the tools for retribution. If you push this back to 
certain agencies in the IC nothing will change, and their people won't 
be cared for yet again.
    Place these efforts under the cross-functional team, which should 
be a 2-star billet which rotates between the services for 3-year 
assignments, and is not an additional duty. Create a central reporting 
hub for the USG, which doesn't exist. Triple Defense Health Program 
funding for AHI care for the next 10 years to care for all USG 
employees, their families, and Government contractors. And provide 
funding for DIA and NSA and FBI to build up and maintain their teams in 
perpetuity to help seek attribution.
    Last, is another HAVANA Act. The original HAVANA Act was a step in 
the right direction and helped thousands of American families. We thank 
the original sponsors of the Havana Act and those in Congress who 
continue to fight for the survivors on both sides of the aisle.
    It should include contractors and active-duty personnel, and 
reimburse for economic losses, similar to injury law, accounting for 
both past and future potential earnings, there should no 12-month 
clause, or a TBI diagnosis requirement, or a required Department of 
State consultation for attacks abroad, the sudden onset clause should 
also be removed to account for the low-intensity long-duration attacks 
and others.
    I would like to thank this committee for their attention to this 
issue and I look forward to your questions.
    I urge this committee to take care of the survivors, execute 
existing funding, and most importantly, pressure the Government to 
fight back in the shadows.
    Thank you for your time.

    Chairman Pfluger. I thank the witness. The Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Grozev for his opening statement of 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF CHRISTO GROZEV, LEAD INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, THE 
                INSIDER, DER SPIEGEL, BELLINGCAT

    Mr. Grozev. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, the committee Members. 
My interest in investigating the Anomalous Health Incidents 
occurred at around the time that there was the initial 
publicity around the Havana cluster. As a journalist, I just 
watched from the sidelines and believed that U.S. intelligence 
and U.S. law enforcement are going to get us the truth. I was 
looking forward to that. Until one day, I was approached 
through a friend, a common friend, by a member of the U.S. 
intelligence community in Europe, who advised me or nudged me, 
asked me to look into this independently. I realized that there 
is something possibly limiting the capabilities or the 
willingness of U.S. law enforcement or intelligence to do a 
thorough study. That is when I started looking into this as my 
own investigation. Over time, it grew into a multi-country 
investigation involving the Spiegel in Germany, the Insider in 
Russia, and our colleagues from CBS 60 Minutes, with whom we 
joined hands in 2023. I would like to present a summary of our 
findings to as of this moment. But mind you, our investigation 
is still in progress.
    Based on extensive interviews with victims, victims' 
families, and also analysts who agreed to talk to us, we can 
now state that to our own comfort and conviction, there is at 
least 68 incidents that cannot be explained away with 
psychosomatic symptoms or pre-existing conditions. We have 
taken those as the bare minimum that allowed us to create a 
time space map, a time space map that allowed us to geolocate 
these incidents and further match them to possible travel of 
potential culprits. That was an important first part of our 
investigation. We established that the Russian government, as 
Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen said, had the long-standing motive 
and plans to develop something that they call wave weapons. 
This is a term they use as a catchall term for both acoustic 
and directed energy, electromagnetic weapons. This has started 
back in Soviet times. There are several patents that we have 
reviewed from the `70's. However, the real boost to this 
program occurred in 2013, when President Putin created a 
special RND Institute called the Institute for Prospective 
Military Studies in Russia, which was tasked with, among other 
things, developing new physical property weapons, including 
wave energy. We know that there have been many awards issued by 
this institute and that they do annual contests, closed-door 
contests, for military engineers providing prototypes and 
testing data on such weapons.
    We've obtained documentary evidence that in 2017, a 
military engineer serving in a commanding position in GRU's 
clandestine sabotage and assassination unit known as 29155, was 
the recipient of the annual award from this institute for a 
project that was termed testing non-lethal acoustic weapons 
suitable for use in urban warfare. Notably, the same military 
commander was immediately promoted to a political position as a 
personal representative of President Putin in the far east of 
Russia. It is a very rare switch in a career of a secret spy in 
Russia, which is usually given after a kinetic achievement, and 
there are many examples in the past that I won't go into. Unit 
29155 is the most aggressive clandestine sabotage unit of 
Russian military intelligence that has been responsible, as 
many of us know, for offensive operations, such as the 
poisoning of Sergei and Skripal and Julius Kripal with 
Novichok. A series of devastating explosions at NATO munition 
facilities in Europe spanning 2011-2018. The poisoning of 3 
Bulgarian people involved with selling weapons to Ukraine. We 
have established that spies of this unit, including the 
commander, Andrey Verano, have had sustained communication with 
military scientists from Russian military institutes, including 
the Institute for Prospective Studies, but also the 16th 
Research and Development Institute, with specific competence 
and background in researching the effect of electromagnetic and 
acoustic waves on the human brain.
    We have also established that a medical research facility 
affiliated with the GRU in St. Petersburg has shown specific 
interest in researching the effect of ultra and infrasound on 
the human brain. A medical facility linked to that particular 
institute has conducted research in a very rare medical 
condition known as the Minor Syndrome, which we have seen 
occurring among a sub-cohort of the actual American victims of 
AHI. Crucially, we have established that members of this same 
clandestine unit have traveled extensively around the world 
under false identities and have been in the proximity of or 
within feasible reach of, confirmed AHI incidents in at least 4 
cases, including Frankfurt in 2014, China in 2016, and `17, 
Tbilisi in `21. Further overlaps of people linked to this unit 
we have seen in Belgrade and Hanoi. The totality of the 
evidence uncovered by our team has proven that Russia has the 
motive, the means, and the opportunity to have developed and 
used non-lethal acoustic or electromagnetic wave weapons 
against members of the U.S. intelligence and law enforcement 
community. Members of the unit 29155 were present in locations 
and at times directly preceding or coinciding with known Havana 
incidents in at least 4 cases. There are many more that were 
yet to discover.
    I will close with just a personal statement. These findings 
present not a smoking gun, but a very plausible operational 
theory on the existence, origin, and culprits behind the AHI. I 
expect the United States intelligence community will address 
our findings on their substance, on their merit, including 
providing alternative explanations for why these people, who 
are known to only engage with kinetic operations, with 
assassinations, poisoning, explosions, never in intelligence 
gathering, were at the wrong time, at the wrong place, if they 
continue to believe that none of this can be attributed to a 
foreign adversary. Thank you very much.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Grozev follows:]
                  Prepared Statement of Christo Grozev
    Mr. Chairman, Dear Committee Members, I have investigated Russian 
clandestine intelligence operations for over 10 years, and have served 
as expert witness in many law-enforcement investigations of 
assassinations or acts of terrorism perpetrated by RIS in Europe.
    My interest in investigating the AHI arose upon the first publicity 
around the Havana cluster of incidents in 2017. However, I then assumed 
that the incidents will be best investigated by the U.S. law 
enforcement and intelligence agencies who would have access to a wealth 
of data that my team would not be privy to. And I assumed that was 
happening in good order, until in 2020 I was approached by an active 
member of U.S. intelligence who encouraged me to independently 
investigate the ``ever-growing number of incidents''. It was then that 
I realized that there may be certain self-imposed limitations in the 
pursuit of the truth on this matter. A collaborative investigative team 
from The Insider and Spiegel led by me began to collect data on the 
subject. In early 2023 we joined forces with CBS 60 Minutes who had 
been conducting their own investigation into the incidents.
    I would like to present a summary of our findings as of this 
moment--and our investigation is still on-going.
   Based on extensive interviews with victims, victims 
        families, and medical professionals directly involved with the 
        early diagnostics and treatment of reported cases, we have 
        established that there are at least 68 anomalous health 
        incidents that cannot be explained away either with pre-
        existing conditions or with psychosomatic symptoms. We have 
        geolocated and established the exact time line and these 
        incidents. This resulted in a time-space map that was later 
        used to correlate to the known time-space travel map of 
        clusters of potential suspects.
   We have established that the Russian government has a long-
        running R&D program to develop a class of weapons known in 
        Russia as ``wave weapons''--a cumulative term for acoustic and/
        or electromagnetic directed-energy emission devices that may be 
        used as either lethal or non-lethal weapons. While the program 
        has its origin in Soviet times--and certain military patents in 
        this area was registered as early as the 1970's--the R&D work 
        in this area was boosted in 2013 through the creation of a new 
        entity by Vladimir Putin that was tasked to develop ``weapons 
        based on new physical properties including ray weapons and wave 
        weapons''. This entity, called the Institute for Prospective 
        Military Studies, has been running annual closed contests among 
        military engineers and scientists for the delivery of 
        prototypes--along with accompanying test data--of such weapons.
   We have obtained documentary evidence that in 2017, a 
        military engineer serving in a commanding position in GRU's 
        clandestine sabotage and assassination unit 29155, was the 
        recipient of the annual award from the Institute for 
        Prospective Military Studies for the development of ``A non-
        lethal acoustic weapon suitable for use in urban combat''. 
        Notably, this same military engineer was subsequently promoted 
        to a high-ranking political position as Putin's representative 
        in a region in Far-East Russia, a rare reward for a spy 
        typically bestowed in the aftermath of major success in kinetic 
        clandestine operations--for example the 2 Russian spies 
        involved in the Polonium poisoning of Litvinenko were promptly 
        offered a fast track to becoming members of Russian parliament.
   Unit 29155 is Russia's most aggressive clandestine sabotage 
        and assassination military unit that has been responsible for 
        offensive terrorist operations outside Russia including the 
        Novichok poisonings of Sergey and Yulia Skripal, a series of 
        devastating explosions at NATO ammunition storage facilities in 
        Europe spanning the period 2011-2018, and the poisoning with 
        unknown banned chemical weapons of Bulgarian arms manufacturers 
        who provided weapons to Ukraine and the Republic of Georgia.
   We have established that spies of this Unit, including its 
        commander Andrey Averyanov, have had sustained communication 
        with military scientists from Russian military institutes, 
        including the 16th Research and Development Institute, with 
        specific competence and background in researching the effect of 
        electromagnetic and electro-acoustic waves on the human brain.
   We have also established that a medical research facility 
        known as the Institute for Experimental Medicine in St. 
        Petersburg, closely linked to the GRU and having documented 
        links to Unit 29155, has shown specific interest in researching 
        the effect of ultra and infrasound on the human brain; and a 
        medical facility linked to this institute has conducted 
        research in a very rare medical condition known as the Minor 
        syndrome known to have occurred among a sub-cohort of victims 
        of AHI.
   Crucially, we have established that members of this 
        clandestine unit who have traveled extensively around the world 
        under false identities, have been in the proximity of, or 
        within feasible reach of confirmed AHI incidents in at least 4 
        cases, including in Frankfurt in 2014, in China in 2016 and 
        2017, and in Tbilisi in 2021; with further overlaps of other 
        GRU officers linked to the unit at the time of incidents in 
        Belgrade and Hanoi.
    The totality of the evidence uncovered by our team has proven that 
Russia had the motive, means, and opportunity to have developed and 
used non-lethal acoustic or electromagnetic ``wave'' weapons against 
members of the U.S. intelligence and law-enforcement community. Members 
of Unit 29155 were present in locations and at times directly preceding 
or coinciding with known Havana incidents in at least 4 cases, likely 
many more that we have yet to discover.
    These findings present a plausible operational theory of the 
existence, origin and culprits behind the AHI. I expect that the U.S. 
intelligence community will address our findings on their substance, 
including providing alternative explanations to the presence of members 
of Unit 29155 at these times and places if their continued belief is 
the AHI may not be attributed to Russian intelligence services.

    Chairman Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Grozev. The Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Zaid for his opening statement of 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF MARK S. ZAID, FOUNDING PARTNER, MARK S. ZAID, PC

    Mr. Zaid. Chairman, Ranking Member, Members of the 
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear today and 
testify about a topic that has mostly silently plagued our 
Nation's intelligence, diplomatic, military, and law 
enforcement personnel in some form for decades, and that is 
Anomalous Health Incidents, or AHI's. I have had the privilege 
of representing Federal AHI victims and their family members 
for over a decade, years before the issue came to prominence 
with the 2016 attacks in Havana, Cuba. I now represent more 
than 2 dozen Federal AHI victims, as well as numerous lawful 
whistleblowers from within CIA, DIA, ODNI, NSA, Departments of 
State and Commerce, USAID, and the FBI. The victims are not 
just selfless public servants, but they are spouses, children, 
including infants, and even pets. These criminal attacks have 
primarily taken place overseas on multiple continents, but have 
also occurred on our homeland in Washington, DC, Northern 
Virginia, Florida, and elsewhere.
    As part of my first case, I was provided an unclassified 
memorandum by NSA in October 2014, 2 years before Havana, that 
revealed the existence of intelligence information concerning a 
foreign adversary. ``With a high-powered microwave system 
weapon that may have the ability to weaken, intimidate, or kill 
an enemy over time and without leaving evidence. The 2012 
intelligence information indicated that this weapon is designed 
to bathe a target's living quarters in microwaves, causing 
numerous physical effects, including a damaged nervous 
system''. Today's hearing can only present a sliver of relevant 
information. The overwhelming majority of evidence concerning 
AHI's is hidden behind Classified walls, having had authorized 
access to Classified information on this topic, but without 
revealing that information, it is my view that the Executive 
branch, particularly at the behest of and manipulation by 
officials within CIA, is not truthfully reporting what it 
knows. While I commend their acknowledgement that AHI victims 
are suffering genuine and compelling health effects, I am 
convinced that the evidence that exists in the Classified arena 
directly contradicts the public conclusions expressed by 
Federal agencies as to the origin, cause, and scope of AHI's. 
That review of that evidence would lead reasonable people to 
conclude one or more foreign adversaries are behind at least 
some of these incidents and that numerous Federal agencies have 
failed to fully undertake substantive investigations, 
deliberately delayed collecting or ignored crucial credible 
evidence, and have intentionally withheld information, even 
from sister agencies so as to influence and manipulate their 
decision-making process.
    There is intelligence, scientific and medical evidence that 
substantiates the existence of AHI's, and that some of the 
attacks were perpetrated by a foreign adversary. That evidence 
can be specifically identified in the proper Classified 
setting. That said, there is a wealth of publicly-available 
information concerning the history of directed energy, and 
particularly its scientific, intelligence, and military 
applications. I provide an overview in my written testimony. 
Given the many years our Government has been experimenting with 
developing directed energy weapons, why would anyone not 
believe our adversaries are engaged in the same efforts? A 
recent investigation by 60 Minutes, Der Spiegel and the Insider 
identified potential credible links between AHI's and alleged 
Russian operatives from military unit 29155. This included 
activities within the United States. What was the Government's 
response? CIA doubled down that there is nothing to see and 
that it knew of and had already ruled out the same evidence. 
That is a blatant falsehood that has infuriated many serving 
members of the intelligence community because so much of the 
evidence to the contrary is available to them in reports, 
briefings, and cable traffic. Of course, this evidence is 
Classified.
    Today's hearing is not going to solve the controversy that 
AHI presents, but there are many steps that Congress can take. 
These include ensuring continual and consistent health care for 
AHI victims, ensuring immediate implementation of and funding 
for the Havana Act of 2021, as well as amending it where 
necessary, investigating why law enforcement and other homeland 
agencies have not been permitted to pursue AHI leads concerning 
criminal attacks on American personnel, and instead CIA 
analysts who do not possess the same skill sets or authorities 
have been allowed to control the investigations, and require 
the Executive branch to develop comprehensive standard 
protocols that provide U.S. personnel and their families with 
guidance as to risks involved and how best to report any 
incidents. It is time for the U.S. Government to be on the 
right side of history. I welcome the opportunity to try and 
answer your questions and providing you with Classified 
responses in the proper, secure setting. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Zaid follows:]
              Prepared Statement of Mark S. Zaid, Esq.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Attorney-at-Law; Managing Partner, Mark S. Zaid, P.C., 1250 
Connecticut Avenue, N.W., Suite 700, Washington, DC. 20036; 
Mark@MarkZaid.com; @MarkSZaidEsq. A copy of my bio is attached at 
Exhibit ``1''.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Wednesday, May 8, 2024
    Chairman, Ranking Member and Members of the subcommittee, thank you 
very much for the opportunity to appear before you today and testify 
about an incredibly important topic that has literally and mostly 
silently plagued our Nation's intelligence, diplomatic, military, and 
law enforcement personnel in some form for decades, and that is the 
issue of Anomalous Health Incidents or ``AHI''.\2\ I applaud that this 
public hearing is taking place. It is the first in over half a decade 
and it was long overdue. It is essential that transparency and truth 
control the course of this discussion. Neither sentiment, 
unfortunately, has been present during every administration since the 
1950's, regardless of the political party in power.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ AHI is the term used to describe a constellation of unexplained 
and sudden symptoms, including the acute onset of audio-vestibular 
sensory phenomena. I choose not to use the commonly used media term 
``Havana Syndrome'' as I believe it inaccurately and unfairly describes 
the phenomena. I further detailed why here: https://x.com/MarkSZaidEsq/
status/1450891097807392770.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              introduction
    I have had the honor and privilege of representing Federal AHI 
victims and their family members for over a decade; years before the 
issue came to public prominence with the 2016 attacks on our 
intelligence and diplomatic members in Havana, Cuba. I now represent 
more than 2 dozen Federal AHI victims, as well as numerous lawful 
whistleblowers, from within the Central Intelligence Agency (``CIA''), 
Defense Intelligence Agency, Office of the Director of National 
Intelligence (``ODNI''), National Security Agency (``NSA''), Department 
of State, Department of Commerce, U.S. Agency for International 
Development, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The victims are 
not just our own selfless serving public servants, but their spouses, 
children (to include infants) and even pets. These criminal attacks 
have primarily taken place overseas on multiple continents but have 
also occurred on our homeland soil in such locations as Washington, DC, 
Northern Virginia, Florida, and elsewhere.
    Today's hearing, however, can only present a sliver of relevant 
information regarding a topic that primarily exists in the shadows. The 
overwhelming majority of evidence concerning AHIs is hidden behind 
Classified walls and you will need to doggedly pursue those avenues if 
you truly want to understand the truth.\3\ Having had authorized access 
to Classified information concerning AHIs, I shall not hesitate to 
state that based on what I have learned to date the Executive branch, 
particularly at the behest of and manipulation by officials within CIA, 
is not truthfully reporting to the American people what it knows about 
AHIs. While I commend Executive branch agencies and their leadership 
for acknowledging that AHI victims are suffering genuine and compelling 
health effects,\4\ based on the years I have worked this issue I am 
convinced that:
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    \3\ I hold an active TOP SECRET security clearance and I have 
routinely been provided with authorized access to Classified 
information concerning AHIs. Nothing within my testimony is intended to 
cross any classification lines and I am solely relying on public source 
and/or unclassified information for my written and oral presentation. 
Please note that for purposes of the AHI topic, I am not bound by any 
prepublication classification review requirement.
    \4\ For example, CIA Director Bill Burns has publicly stated: ``I 
want to be absolutely clear: These findings do not call into question 
the experiences and real health issues that U.S. Government personnel 
and their family members--including CIA's own officers--have reported 
while serving our country.'' See https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/
01/havana-syndrome-cia-intelligence-00085021.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   The evidence that exists in the Classified arena, including 
        what I have personally reviewed or been told by first-hand 
        witnesses, directly contradicts the public conclusions and 
        sentiments expressed by Executive branch agencies as to the 
        origins, cause, and scope of AHIs;
   Information on AHIs that has been collected and actions that 
        have been taken by Federal agencies and its senior officials 
        would lead reasonable people to conclude one or more foreign 
        adversaries are behind at least some of these incidents, which 
        should be described as attacks on our personnel and their 
        families; and,
   It is evident that numerous Federal agencies have failed to 
        fully undertake substantive investigations, have deliberately 
        delayed collecting or ignored crucial credible evidence that 
        would lead down a particular pathway toward implicating a 
        foreign adversary, and/or have intentionally withheld 
        information even from sister agencies so as to influence and 
        manipulate their decision-making process.\5\
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    \5\ One whistleblower who I represent filed an ``Urgent Concern'' 
complaint pursuant to Intelligence Community Directive 120 with the 
intelligence community's Office of Inspector General that was deemed 
credible and forwarded to the respective Congressional Intelligence 
Committees. The complaint characterized CIA's behavior on this topic as 
potentially constituting obstruction of justice and witness tampering. 
That complaint is currently the subject of litigation under the Freedom 
of Information Act in James Madison Project et al. v. ODNI, Civil 
Action No. 23-3457 (D.D.C.)(APM). Through my law office, we are using 
FOIA to obtain relevant, previously-unseen records pertaining to AHI, 
and have litigated 7 lawsuits to date, including that of James Madison 
Project et al. v. ODNI, Civil Action No. 23-00674 (D.D.C.)(TNM), which 
resulted in the first public release of the IC Experts Panel report 
from September 2022. That report, entitled ``Anomalous Health 
Incidents: Analysis of Potential Causal Mechanisms'', contradicted 
earlier Government findings and suggested that an unknown device or 
weapon using ``pulsed electromagnetic energy'' remains a plausible 
explanation. https://media.salon.com/pdf/22-cv-
674%20Final%20Response%20Package.pdf.
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    There is intelligence, scientific and medical evidence that 
substantiates the existence of AHIs and the attacks upon American 
personnel overseas and domestically by a foreign adversary. I share 
your likely frustration that in this public forum there are those of us 
with relevant substantive knowledge offering what are certainly bold 
claims but who cannot present specific evidence to support their 
testimony. That, however, is the difficulty of addressing a topic that 
lives in the Classified world. But to be clear, I would not be willing 
to place on the line a professional reputation that I have earned after 
more than 30 years of law practice in the national security arena if I 
was unable to point to relevant documents and credible witnesses. The 
evidence I have described does exist and can be specifically identified 
in the proper Classified setting.\6\
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    \6\ Thankfully the House Select Committee on Intelligence launched 
a formal investigation into AHIs in February 2024 and is aggressively 
pursuing the Classified angles. Exhibit ``2''. The Senate Select 
Committee on Intelligence has also been a very helpful partner in 
investigating AHI matters. I have been cooperating with both committees 
for years. Several individual Members of Congress in the House and 
Senate have also strived to ensure the needs of AHI victims are met. 
Attention to AHIs should be, and largely has been, non-partisan in 
nature.
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  brief history--what is occurring today has been part of an evolution
    There is a wealth of publicly-available information concerning the 
history of directed energy and particularly its scientific, 
intelligence, and military applications. From the days of Nikola Tesla 
proposing concepts in the 19th Century of his ``death ray'' to direct 
electromagnetic energy to disable machinery or personnel, to recent 
patents to create a ``non-lethal and non-destructive electromagnetic 
personnel interdiction control stun type weapon system'' and methods to 
utilize beamed radio frequency energy,\7\ to active Department of 
Defense (``DoD'') solicitations to ``develop a low-cost, low-weight, 
small-size wearable radio frequency (RF) weapon exposure detector.''\8\ 
None of this is new. Just last year the Government Accountability 
Office issued a report that ``DOD is currently developing directed 
energy weapons with the goal of defeating a range of threats, including 
drones and missiles.''\9\ Why would anyone fail to believe our 
adversaries, some of whom are bound by far less ethical parameters, are 
not engaged in the same efforts, or particularly focused on the use of 
a weapon against humans? In fact, they have told us so.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ U.S. Patent, ``Electromagnetic Personnel Interdiction Control 
Method and System'' (2010), at https://
patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/c9/ab/51/1e8065605e339d/
US7841989.pdf.
    \8\ See https://www.sbir.gov/node/1837879, DHA211-005 (2021). 
Reasonable Question: Are any U.S. senior government officials or their 
staff traveling with energy detection devices while overseas, even 
though they publicly claim it is unlikely any foreign adversary is 
responsible for AHI attacks?
    \9\ Government Accountability Office, ``DIRECTED ENERGY WEAPONS: 
DOD Should Focus on Transition Planning,'' April 2023, at https://
www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-105868.
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    The development of weaponry based on new physics principles--direct 
energy weapons, geophysical weapons, wave-energy weapons, genetic 
weapons, psychotropic weapons, and so on--was part of the State arms 
procurement program for 2011-2020.
            russian defense minister anotoly serdyukov \10\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ https://www.fpri.org/article/2024/04/havana-syndrome-the-
history-behind-the-mystery.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I view this present controversy as involving technology that was 
invented decades ago and has obviously evolved over time, and it 
continues to do so. What we do not know, of course, absent the capture 
of a device, retrieval of relevant intelligence documents or walk-in 
defector, any one of which history tells us is likely to one day occur, 
is the motive of the perpetrator(s). Is this technology designed to 
activate surveillance or communication devices, extract information 
from our cell phones or computers or incapacitate our personnel, or 
perhaps a combination of those objectives?
    Most obvious of the relevant history surrounding AHIs is the 
existence of the ``Moscow Signal,'' which refers to a Cold War activity 
involving the U.S. Embassy in Moscow. From the 1950's to the 1970's, 
the Soviet Union aimed microwave radiation at our Embassy. This effort 
was discovered by U.S. authorities in or around 1962. The microwave 
emissions, detected in specific frequency bands, were believed to 
potentially have adverse health effects and raised concerns among 
numerous Embassy staff, including at least 3 Ambassadors, as well as 
other senior U.S. officials. Indeed, according to recently declassified 
records, in 1975 our Secretary of State Henry Kissinger asked the 
Soviet Ambassador to turn off the beam during his upcoming visit to 
Moscow.\11\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \11\ Id. Reasonable Question: As did Secretary of State Kissinger, 
has any U.S. senior Government official in the last 5 years warned one 
or more foreign adversaries to stop what they are doing with respect to 
AHIs?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The motivations behind the Soviet's Moscow Signal are still not 
definitively known, but hypotheses include electronic surveillance and 
experimentation with health effects.\12\ This discovery led to Project 
Pandora, a U.S. investigation into potential health impacts of 
microwave exposure. The event was the subject of now-forgotten Senate 
hearings which were described in a 1979 staff report.\13\ There is a 
wealth of declassified documentation concerning the topic and to better 
understand the current framework of AHIs the study of the history 
record is invaluable.\14\
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    \12\ In the course of my AHI representation, I was presented with 
Kodachrome slides, dated 1972, that were found among the effects of a 
deceased former CIA officer that highlight the use of the technology, 
for purposes unknown. Exhibit ``3''.
    \13\ https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/28799-document-15-us-
senate-committee-commerce-science-and-transportation-report-microwave.
    \14\ Most notably, the National Security Archives has created a 
vault of declassified documentation at https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/
briefing-book/intelligence-russia-programs/2022-09-13/moscow-signals-
declassified-microwave. See also https://www.wbur.org/npr/1047342593/
long-before-havana-syndrome-u-s-reported-microwaves-beamed-at-an-
embassy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As one former CIA official recently described:

``It may well be that the microwave bombardment of the embassy began as 
a way to counter communications equipment on the roof, recharge Soviet 
listening devices, or disrupt American surveillance devices, like those 
listening in on the conversations of Soviet officials talking to each 
other while riding in their limousines. But once the Russians realized 
that the radiation was causing health effects--and their scientists 
have studied this extensively--they continued to radiate the embassy 
and began to weaponize the use of microwaves, developing smaller 
microwave transmitters that could be directed against 
individuals.''\15\
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    \15\ https://www.fpri.org/article/2024/04/havana-syndrome-the-
history-behind-the-mystery.

    I started working on AHI issues more than a decade ago.\16\ As part 
of my first case, I was provided an unclassified memorandum by NSA in 
October 2014, that reads:
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    \16\ My original AHI client, Michael Beck, was a long-standing and 
decorated NSA employee who was injured during the mid-1990's at a 
still-Classified overseas location and, we believe, developed a rare 
form of Parkinson's disease as a result. See https://
www.washingtonpost.com/local/was-a-spys-parkinsons-disease-caused-by-a-
secret-microwave-weapon-attack/2017/11/26/d5d530e0-c3f5-11e7-afe9-
4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/
havana-syndrome-nsa-officer-microwave-attacks-since-90's.

``The National Security Agency confirms that there is intelligence 
information from 2012 associating the hostile country to which Mr. Beck 
traveled in the late 1990's with a high-powered microwave system weapon 
that may have the ability to weaken, intimidate, or kill an enemy over 
time and without leaving evidence. The 2012 intelligence information 
indicated that this weapon is designed to bathe a target's living 
quarters in microwaves, causing numerous physical effects, including a 
damaged nervous system. The National Security Agency has no evidence 
that such a weapon, if it existed and if it was associated with the 
hostile country in the late 1990's, was or was not used against Mr. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beck.''

    Exhibit ``4'' (emphasis added). This was nearly 2 years before the 
attacks in Havana, Cuba, occurred. Now I recognize that this statement 
was very clearly vetted, if not written in its entirety, by NSA 
lawyers. On some level, the document says almost nothing given the 
carefully crafted and caveated language. But on the other hand the 
document is astounding, especially post-Havana, as to what NSA had 
revealed to me as part of a simple effort to help with a workmen's 
compensation claim. I distinctly recall questioning why NSA officials 
could not simply help my client receive compensation as doing so would 
not open ``Pandora's Box''. I was very sadly and naively mistaken and 
now understand why.\17\
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    \17\ We sued NSA under FOIA to produce the intelligence information 
described in the 2014 memorandum. The documents were withheld as 
``intelligence products derived from signals intelligence and thus 
properly classified.'' James Madison Project et al. v. NSA, 2023 U.S. 
Dist. LEXIS 111105, *10 (June 26, 2023, D.Md).
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 the u.s. government's public pronouncements do not reconcile with, or 
  certainly do not address, independent credible evidence of foreign 
                government involvement in ahi incidents
    In the aftermath of the publicity surrounding the 2016 incidents 
involving our diplomatic personnel in Havana, Cuba, the Department of 
State asked the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and 
Medicine (the National Academies) to analyze what occurred. Based on 
the leadership of Stanford University's Dr. David Relman, who also 
later served on the intelligence community's Expert Panel, the 
committee determined that ``directed pulsed RF energy, especially in 
those with the distinct early manifestations, appears to be the most 
plausible mechanism''.\18\
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    \18\ NAS, The Standing Committee to Advise the Department of States 
on Unexplained Health Effects on U.S. Government Employees and Their 
Families at Overseas Embassies (2020), at https://
nap.nationalacademies.org/catalog/25889/an-assessment-of-illness-in-us-
government-employees-and-their-families-at-overseas-embassies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    But in January 2022, the CIA released an interim report that 
asserted a majority of the 1,000 cases reported to the Government could 
be explained by environmental causes, undiagnosed medical conditions or 
stress, rather than a sustained global campaign by a foreign power.\19\ 
Of course, no details were provided to explain what any of those 
alternative explanations might entail. Conveniently, the fact that 
approximately 2 dozen AHI cases could not be explained away was 
ignored. The interim report was followed up by the ODNI's March 2023 
report ``Updated Assessment of Anomalous Health Incidents'' which 
claimed: most IC agencies have concluded that it is ``very unlikely'' a 
foreign adversary is responsible for the reported AHIs. IC agencies 
have varying confidence levels, with 2 agencies at moderate-to-high 
confidence while 3 are at moderate confidence. Two agencies judge it is 
``unlikely'' an adversary was responsible for AHIs and they do so with 
low confidence based on collection gaps and their review of the same 
evidence.\20\
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    \19\ https://www.npr.org/2022/01/20/1074338995/cia-report-no-
evidence-linking-havana-syndrome-cases-to-a-foreign-country. The 
interim report is the subject of a pending FOIA lawsuit: James Madison 
Project et. al. v. CIA, Civil Action No. 22-cv-321-(D.D.C.)(CJN).
    \20\ https://www.hsdl.org/c/view?docid=875802.
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    The assessment, which was actually issued by just a fraction of the 
U.S. intelligence community, found no pattern, forensic evidence, or 
intelligence that indicated an adversary targeted personnel in many 
cases. To the general public that conclusion is damning. To those who 
can read between the lines and understand the terminology, there is 
actually no reliable consensus among the intelligence community and the 
conclusion is even doubted by some agencies.
    More recently, in March 2024, the Journal of the American Medical 
Association (``JAMA'') published 2 studies issued by the National of 
Institutes of Health (``NIH'') that found ``no significant evidence of 
MRI-detectable brain injury, nor differences in most clinical measures 
compared to controls, among a group of Federal employees who 
experienced'' AHIs.\21\ Given NIH's stated objectives for their study, 
the findings were not unexpected particularly given the unfortunate 
history that surrounds brain injury-focused research; it often results 
in a lack of findings that are clinically helpful. Not surprisingly, 
the findings were unfortunately exploited by the intelligence community 
to support their public position that there is ``nothing to see here''. 
But the absence of evidence is not evidence.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \21\ See e.g., https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/
2816533; https://www.nih.- gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-studies-
find-severe-symptoms-havana-syndrome-no-evidence-mri-detectable-brain-
injury-or-biological-abnormalities.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Many of my clients participated in the NIH study. At least two of 
the listed authors on the JAMA articles from NIH and DoD were fully 
aware that AHI victims had been diagnosed with traumatic brain 
injuries, which is inconsistent with their reported study results, 
particularly because they had signed off on the medical documentation. 
The NIH study has also been compromised by ethical complaints that CIA 
participants were required to join as a prerequisite to receive actual 
medical treatment.\22\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \22\ Prior to the publication of the JAMA articles, I notified both 
JAMA and NIH of ethical concerns regarding the studies and offered 
access to my clients and supporting evidence. No action was taken at 
that time but since publication NIH has contacted participants for 
information and indicated the study has been stopped for now. See 
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/01/politics/havana-syndrome-victims-cia-
russia/index.html. Not surprisingly, many Federal agencies disseminated 
the JAMA articles to their workforce as further proof that AHIs were 
not caused by a foreign adversary. Disappointedly, and perhaps not 
unexpected, agencies such as the State Department declined to also 
disseminate the accompanying JAMA article authored by Dr. David Relman, 
a member of the IC Expert's Panel, which challenged NIH's findings. See 
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2816534.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As this subcommittee knows, a recent investigation that aired on 
March 31, 2024, by 60 Minutes, Der Spiegel, and The Insider, entitled 
``Targeting Americans,'' which I participated in, identified potential 
credible links between AHIs and alleged Russian operatives from 
military unit 29155.\23\ One of my clients, identified as ``Carrie'' 
and a currently serving FBI Special Agent, also appeared to discuss her 
attacks that occurred in Key West, Florida.\24\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \23\ See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdPSD1SUYCY (full 60 
Minutes episode); https://www.cbsnews.com/news/havana-syndrome-culprit-
investigation-new-evidence-60-minutes-transcript (60 Minutes 
transcript).
    \24\ I want to emphasize that ``Carrie'' appeared with 
authorization from FBI after I negotiated the proper parameters for her 
public appearance.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Whether those in the general public who watched the evidence aired 
by 60 Minutes, and followed up by articles published by Der Spiegel and 
the Insider,\25\ were persuaded toward the particular conclusion that 
Russian Military Intelligence Unit 29155 is responsible for some of the 
attacks is not the important consideration. More important is what are 
the explanations from the U.S. intelligence community to address the 
many questions raised and evidence discussed in the segments? We know 
that CIA Director Bill Burns, in the aftermath of 60 Minutes, doubled 
down on the agency's view that there is nothing to see.\26\ False 
claims have been made that the intelligence community knew of and had 
already ruled out the evidence presented by 60 Minutes. This is a 
blatant falsehood that has infuriated many serving members of the 
intelligence community because so much of the evidence to the contrary 
is literally available to them in reports, briefings, and cable 
traffic. Of course, this evidence is Classified. This subcommittee, 
however, can question the intelligence community concerning these 
specific claims and demand answers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \25\ See e.g., https://theins.ru/en/politics/270425 (March 31, 
2024); https://theins.ru/ en/politics/270717 (April 11, 2024).
    \26\ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/2967083/cia-
doubles-down-on-see-no-russian-havana-syndrome-spin/.
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 why would the u.s. government deny foreign government involvement in 
                                 ahi s?
    Many no doubt ask why would the U.S. Government hide the truth 
behind AHIs? I can present several possible explanations that are 
believed to be at play, at least in part or in combination with one 
another.
    First, these attacks literally constitute an act of war, and one 
where a response would conceivably be required. If it is true that a 
foreign adversary has criminally attacked Americans on domestic soil, 
how did the national security and law enforcement community fail to 
detect and deter these events?
    Second, our personnel and their families are largely unprotected 
from these attacks, which often take place in their residences and at 
some of the most desirable posts around the world. Can any precautions 
even be taken going forward?
    Third, AHIs are having a very profound and adverse impact on morale 
and dissuading officers from accepting overseas assignments. Some 
officers have even quit specifically because of AHI concerns. The 
relevant workforce, which is comprised of many of our best and 
brightest, do not believe they are being provided with sufficient 
information or protection.
    Fourth, the difficulties associated with identifying who over the 
course of decades has suffered an actual AHI caused by a foreign 
adversary and the costs involved for resulting medical care could be 
astronomical, especially if baseline testing before deployment or as 
part of the hiring process for Federal employees and contractors (and 
their family members) is determined to be a necessary tool to help 
identify future exposure.
    Finally, there are questions that need to be legitimately raised as 
to whether our own Government has utilized similar technology on the 
adversary for various objectives, and/or that we have actually caused 
self-inflicted wounds on our own personnel through the use of machinery 
and other devices that have been operated or stored in their vicinity 
for various purposes.
               immediate issues that need to be addressed
    Today's hearing is not going to solve the controversy that AHI 
presents. At best, it will raise important questions that prompt the 
committee to continue moving forward toward obtaining answers, 
especially given the clear relationship to its homeland security 
jurisdiction. But there are many steps Congress can take, both 
immediate and over the long-term, to address AHI issues. These include, 
but are not limited to (and in no particular order of importance):
   Ensuring continual and consistent health care for AHI 
        victims from qualified medical professionals. This can include 
        requesting an investigation, whether by the GAO (which does 
        presently have a related investigation, as does the audit staff 
        for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence) or appropriate 
        Office of Inspector General, into the level and extent of care 
        AHI victims have received to date and are eligible for, 
        especially to hold any officials accountable for denial of 
        needed health care;
   Ensuring proper and immediate implementation of and funding 
        for the Havana Act of 2021 \27\ (``Helping American Victims 
        Afflicted by Neurological Attacks''). The well-meaning law 
        unnecessarily and improperly limits the scope of awards, 
        particularly geographically and by date. Most distressing, 
        there are varying approaches and requirements being imposed by 
        Federal agencies as to how they are determining qualifications 
        for awards. Why should there be a difference between a CIA 
        victim or one who was serving the State Department? There are 
        also existing obstacles for active-duty military victims to 
        receive any compensation, although no DoD victim can currently 
        receive an award because the Department has not even issued 
        regulations that would allow its victims to apply.\28\ There is 
        little doubt that additional comprehensive legislation that 
        properly provides for health care and compensation for those 
        Americans who have been subjected to AHIs, regardless of date 
        or geographic location is required;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \27\ Public Law 117-46, codified at 22 U.S.C.  2680b(i).
    \28\ The Department of Justice only just recently issued its 
proposed implementing regulations on April 19, 2024, and they will go 
into effect later this month. See https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/
FR-2024-04-19/pdf/2024-08336.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Investigating as part of the committee's primary 
        jurisdiction why law enforcement and other domestic homeland 
        agencies have not been permitted to pursue AHI leads concerning 
        criminal attacks on American personnel and instead CIA 
        analysts, who do not possess the same skill sets or 
        authorities, have been allowed to control the investigations;
   Requiring the Executive branch to develop comprehensive 
        protocols providing U.S. personnel and their families with 
        proper warnings and guidance as to risks involved and how best 
        to report any incidents; and,
   So much more.
                               conclusion
    This hearing is hopefully just the beginning of many to come that 
will further pursue the objective of exposing the truth concerning 
AHIs. Those of our public servants and their family members who have 
been harmed must be cared for, and most importantly their current and 
future peers must be protected from adversarial attack going forward.
    It is time for the U.S. Government to be on the right side of 
history.
    I am committed to working with Congress to help address the 
concerns we are discussing today, and I welcome the opportunity to try 
and answer your questions in an unclassified manner, and to providing 
you with Classified responses in the proper secure setting.
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairman Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Zaid. Members will now be 
recognized in order of seniority for their 5 minutes of 
questioning. If time allows, an additional round of questioning 
may be called after all Members have been recognized. Without 
objection, the Chair seeks permission for the gentleman from 
Mississippi, Mr. Guest, and the gentleman from Florida, Mr. 
Gimenez, to also waive onto this committee. Without objection 
so ordered. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of 
questioning, and again, thank the witnesses for your 
statements. I will start with you, Mr. Grozev, maybe give us an 
idea of how this could happen in the United States. Talk us 
through a scenario that you have investigated that technology 
and location, things that we can kind-of put it into context 
and understand in layman's terms.
    Mr. Grozev. In terms of technology. I am not an expert in 
the technology behind this, but I have read enough, and I am 
sufficiently technically-minded to understand that there is 
more than one way to achieve this same effect on the human 
brain. One of the most disturbing denials that I have seen in 
some of the publications leading up to our findings being 
published was an attempt to create the impression that no 
technology would allow this impact on the human brain. That is 
provably untrue. There have been experiments that prove that 
both acoustic waves, directed waves in the ultrasound, 
primarily the ultrasound band, but also electromagnetic-
directed energy, especially post-nanosecond energy beams in the 
millimeter band, through something called the Frey Effect, 
which converts electromagnetic energy into an acoustic band 
wave that can be within or without or outside of the audible 
band can have the same effect on the human brain, which can 
have long-term concussion-like symptoms, but in really 
traumatic degree of concussion. So that is a given. I don't 
think today we have the expertise to talk about that, but there 
is sufficient evidence that that is possible. We also know that 
the Russian intelligence operators has worked on that. 
Something I would like to mention as well is that after our 
publication, a former member of Russia's intelligence community 
reached out to me and said, well, this is what we have been 
working on since the `80's, because we thought that the 
Americans were doing that to us, and we wanted to develop a 
counter-technology for the same thing. So, of course, we are 
doing that, which is interesting, because Russian intelligence 
officers believe they are doing this, and American intelligence 
officers are saying they are not doing this.
    Chairman Pfluger. Did this individual, Russian agent, 
remain anonymous?
    Mr. Grozev. Unfortunately, for their own safety, I will 
have to leave them anonymous. But it is a person with, in my 
view, sufficient knowledge of exactly the intents, the red 
lines that this entity would be exposed to. We know that 
members of this unit have engaged with scientists who have 
worked on a project called Reversal of Epilepsy Symptoms 
through radio waves, which, for anybody known how Russia 
intelligence formulates their findings for the public facing 
domain, should read them as the exact opposite, creating, 
reversing, essentially, the polarity might leave with the exact 
opposite effect, creating epilepsy symptoms and so on and so 
forth. This interest is long-running for the GRU, for Russia's 
military intelligence. One last thing I will mention is that we 
found that the only other place, other than among the cohort of 
American and Canadian intelligence and law enforcement officers 
who have been affected by this, that we have seen very, very 
similar symptoms, was in a Russian school in 2017. We found the 
evidence to this similarity in a hacked email box of a military 
researcher from the St. Petersburg Institute for Experimental 
Medicine working for the GRU. This institute showed uncanny 
interest in exactly what happened in that school, where 26 
children complained of exactly the symptoms that we have 
received in this investigation from American officers and 
diplomats. Again, it was this institute that followed up and 
did research and may have been behind those incidents in 
Russia, but we don't see them anywhere else other than around 
Russian operatives.
    Chairman Pfluger. Mr. Zaid, is it your belief that these 
attacks have happened inside the United States? If so, can you 
give us some of the locations and details that you can share 
with us?
    Mr. Zaid. Yes, without a doubt, they have happened here in 
the United States. As I mentioned in my opening testimony, we 
know of quite a number, and I would say perhaps the majority of 
them were in the Washington, DC, Northern Virginia area. There 
are also a number, particularly of FBI personnel down in 
Florida. I do know of some other locations of which I can tell 
you more about in a more private situation, not necessarily 
because of classification, but for privilege of the individual 
client not to reveal it. But there is no doubt there have been 
quite a number of cases here, particularly relating to the CIA. 
CIA, and FBI, most predominantly also State Department.
    Chairman Pfluger. Thank you. My time has expired, and I 
recognize the Ranking Member for his line of question.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clearly, what I have 
heard today is very disturbing. Before I get to my questions, I 
just want to reiterate that we are going to do everything we 
can to assure that the victims, those that are suffering, will 
receive consistent health care for what is ailing you. But Mr. 
Edgreen, the evidence. No intentional attack yet. What I am 
hearing from Mr. Zaid, Mr. Grozev, is that there is a 
possibility that something is out there attacking us, 
especially in the homeland. Mr. Edgreen, based on what, Mr. 
Zaid just said, what are your thoughts?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. My personal thoughts?
    Mr. Correa. As an intelligence officer.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Is that I agree with them. My 
personal opinions is that this is a global campaign, and it 
includes attacking us here at home. It is a strategic issue 
that is going to impact us.
    Mr. Correa. Is this an attack by the Russians? Just the 
Russians? Is it against the United States solely? Or other 
allies as well?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. I have to be careful what I say 
here. So let me say this.
    Mr. Correa. If I can, say what you can. If you gentlemen 
feel better talking about this in a more secure setting----
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. I will start by saying----
    Mr. Correa [continuing]. I can work on that as well.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen [continuing]. Congressman, thank 
you for the question. Give me 20 minutes in a SCIF, and I will 
convince all of you. I know where the bodies are buried. I know 
the cabinets to look in, the questions to ask, and the people 
to subpoena. I will say that this is a global campaign, and it 
is focused on attacking our people. The best of our people. It 
is not the middle-range people that are being attacked. It is 
those that are succeeding. Succeeding, and providing work. Work 
that wounds up on the President's desk every morning. So it is 
a massive issue. It is something that doesn't come to light. It 
is something that, especially with the Department of Defense 
survivors, the unseen, they are totally left out of this. 
Because the Havana Act doesn't cover your active-duty members. 
They are told to go to the VA, but there is no VA diagnostic 
code, so we are not getting them care. It is not consistent. We 
have funding available that is allocated, that we could provide 
to take care of all of our people in our Government. We are not 
using it. That is what I urge you to contact the Defense Health 
Program.
    Mr. Correa. Mr. Zaid, my last 2\1/2\ minutes. Would you say 
this is more on behalf of the U.S. Government in terms of what 
we have been looking at? Is this more of a malfeasance as 
opposed to misfeasance?
    Mr. Zaid. That is a good question. I am sure, just like so 
many other issues, it is a combination. I can't explain some of 
the obstacles that those in the Government have erected to 
block information. I can tell you, you know first-hand that I--
--
    Mr. Correa. But your opinion would be that that information 
is being blocked?
    Mr. Zaid. There is information that has absolutely been 
blocked from one agency to the other. Particularly at the CIA. 
I mean, that is who we are going to point to the most, of 
information that the CIA has, that its sister intelligence 
agencies--it hasn't been shared with. I can identify a number 
of specific Classified documents in the proper setting.
    Mr. Correa. Mr. Grozev, any thoughts?
    Mr. Grozev. I would like to be the devil's advocate and 
allow for the possibility, for some legitimate reasons, why the 
U.S. Government and intelligence officers agencies might not 
want to make this a public issue. One of the few legitimate 
explanations for this, in my mind, is the fear of proliferation 
of such a weapon. In case it becomes widely-known that it is 
achievable, feasible, and maybe not too costly to manufacture. 
That is why I don't require public answers to our findings. But 
I encourage SCIF answers to everything we found out to you and 
to Government, so that we exclude the possibility that it is if 
that is the case of an attack on American officials by the 
Russian state.
    Mr. Correa. Is there any way to protect our officials from 
these weapons?
    Mr. Grozev. This is exactly why I do not take into account 
a possible legitimate reason for hiding this. Because from my 
personal point of view, making this public is the best 
protection.
    Mr. Correa. My last few seconds, Mr. Edgreen. Any thoughts?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. The best way to protect our 
people is to fight back. When you are hit in the shadows, you 
have to hit back twice as hard and tell your adversary why you 
did that.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am out of time. I 
will yield.
    Chairman Pfluger. The gentleman yields. I now recognize the 
gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Crane, for his 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this 
hearing today. Thank you to our witnesses for showing up. Many 
Americans, including other Members that I have spoken to 
recently, don't exactly know what to think of these Anomalous 
Health Incidents. I spoke to one the other day, just yesterday, 
who said I thought that was debunked. Like Havana Syndrome, 
where our citizens are claiming very serious medical conditions 
following perceived attacks. After hearing your testimonies, it 
sounds like all 3 of you believe that these are hostile actions 
orchestrated by our adversaries against American citizens. Is 
that correct?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Zaid. Yes. Not all of them, of course.
    Mr. Crane. OK. I can't remember which one of you said at 
least 68 incidents that you believe to be attacks using these 
type of weapons? Is that correct?
    Mr. Grozev. At least 68 of the incidents I said cannot be 
explained away with preexisting conditions for psychosomatic 
symptoms.
    Mr. Crane. Can you go over again real quick, Mr. Grozev, 
why you believe that our Nation's own law enforcement and 
intelligence investigations have concluded the opposite of the 
claims made here today?
    Mr. Grozev. One general observation, and again, I don't 
know the answer, but based on my 10 years of investigation of 
Russian intelligence operations and observing the parallel 
findings of law enforcement and intelligence publications, I 
find that there is an over-reliance on something that a 
colleague and a victim, a colleague of the victims and a victim 
himself called the straw, drinking straw insight, that is 
unfortunately used for many of the conclusions. Reliance or 
reliance on human intelligence sources that may be recruited 
within the Russian intelligence community who are asked, do you 
know if this is you guys? The answer may be no. That may be a 
very honest, sincere answer. From my investigation it is clear 
that any operation like this is heavily compartmentalized and 
it is firewalled to a degree where even members, other members 
of the same unit might not be aware that this has been going 
on.
    To rely on human intelligence for conclusions of this 
stature is probably very inefficient. What we do find is 
unexplained travel. We find unexplained communications. That 
all points to a very plausible and internally consistent theory 
that these people are behind the attacks. Again, I just, I can 
see several reasons why the U.S. intelligence might not want to 
make that public. But they must make it known to qualified--and 
in a secure setting and provide answers to our findings.
    Mr. Crane. Guys, if your assessments here are correct, 
these are very covert weapons, aren't they? They don't leave 
behind bomb fragments, bullet holes, et cetera. They could 
absolutely be used by our adversaries and have very low levels 
of very easy to deny that they were even there, that they were 
used. Is that correct?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. That is correct. There is no 
entry or exit wound. How they are designed is to make the 
target feel like they are crazy, like they are imagining 
things. Especially on the low-duration, the low-intensity, 
long-duration hits.
    Mr. Crane. But you were saying that the targets are most 
often, always either CIA, FBI, intelligence, law enforcement 
individuals. Is that correct?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. No, I said diplomats, 
intelligence community, and Department of Defense make up the 
lion's share. You often don't hear about the Department of 
Defense despite DOD having 5 or 10 times the number of 
survivors that Department of State has.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you for that correction, sir. You guys 
also said that these attacks are happening right here in this 
city, is that correct?
    Mr. Zaid. Yes.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Yes.
    Mr. Crane. Can you expound on that a little bit more?
    Mr. Zaid. I mean, there have been some that have gone 
public with respect to Washington DC, the particularly credible 
ones. I am not saying that those are not credible, but the ones 
that have received the most attention on the inside of the 
intelligence community are in Northern Virginia, and they are 
particularly of CIA personnel.
    Mr. Crane. I think it was Mr. Grozev said you spoke to a 
Russian agent who said that they believe that Americans are 
using these same weapons on them. Is that correct?
    Mr. Grozev. That is correct. Back in the `80's.
    Mr. Crane. Might that have something to do with part of the 
CIA's motive to cover up the existence of the, this tech and 
these weapons?
    Mr. Grozev. That is a very logical possibility.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Pfluger. Gentleman yields. Chair now recognizes 
the gentleman from New York, Mr. Goldman, for his round of 
questioning.
    Mr. Goldman. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our 
witnesses for being here. Mr. Grozev, I want to follow up a 
little bit on the interactions you've had with Russian 
intelligence about these AHI's. If you had a conversation with 
an intelligence officer where a Russian intelligence officer 
where he or she said that these are the same weapons that were 
used in the 1980's, isn't that an admission that they know they 
are using them now?
    Mr. Grozev. It is an admission that it is very plausible 
that they are being used now because the person was not privy 
to this particular operation. He is or she is retired. But 
again, the important thing is that he was serving at a time 
when there was a concerted effort for the Russian intelligence 
services to develop a counter-weapon. He believed, given time 
passed since then, it has been developed.
    Mr. Goldman. I see. So he has retired, but believes that 
based on the similar symptoms or what other factors went into 
his----
    Mr. Grozev. Very, very similar symptoms were being conveyed 
in terms of Soviet diplomats stationed abroad, of intelligence 
background, had returned back to Russia, to the Soviet Union, 
with symptoms that they believed were caused by an acoustic 
weapon. That was their belief. It is not the fact that it is 
what happened, but again, it explains partly the motivation for 
them to develop a weapon that will be targeting exactly the 
type of people that we see being targeted.
    Mr. Goldman. I know there is some geospatial data that 
indicates there were Russian intelligence officers near alleged 
incidents abroad. Do any of you know whether that is also the 
case for any of the incidents that have been reported 
domestically?
    Mr. Grozev. I do not have that data. Because the particular 
unit that we have focused on, they would not dare come to the 
United States. Therefore, if the Russians were doing this on 
U.S. soil, they would have used sleeper, sleepers, long-term 
proxies that would be here. But that is not a unit that I have 
discovered in my own career.
    Mr. Goldman. Therefore difficult to identify as affiliated 
with Russian intelligence.
    Mr. Grozev. Right.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Sir, I think you should refer 
that last question to the FBI in Classified spaces.
    Mr. Zaid. Obviously, the episode with my client, an active 
FBI agent that was authorized to speak to 60 Minutes, talks 
about an incident in Key West, and most of that information is 
either Law Enforcement-Sensitive or Classified.
    Mr. Goldman. Are any of you aware of any reported incidents 
from individuals who are not members of the United States 
Government? Domestically, I should say.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. I am not. But I will throw a 
caveat in there. Generally, I only focused on former and 
current Government employees that were attacked.
    Mr. Goldman. Mr. Zaid, are you?
    Mr. Zaid. There are many people who believe they are 
victims of AHI's. All you have to do is look at my Twitter feed 
whenever I post on the topic. I only represent Federal 
Government employees and their families, so I don't focus on 
the accuracy of those particular claims.
    Mr. Goldman. Mr. Grozev, do you have any in sight?
    Mr. Grozev. Not on American soil, but in other parts of the 
world there have been complaints that appear to be credible 
from Russian activists or Russian opposition leaders living 
abroad.
    Mr. Goldman. Mr. Zaid, I want to ask, and this is a 
hypothetical, but I am trying to understand why our Government 
would try to block information sharing or conceal information 
that they have. One thing that comes to mind is whether there 
is an operational risk to revealing any of the details of their 
investigation. Is that something that you have come across in 
any of your work?
    Mr. Zaid. Yes, and quickly, because I know your time is 
elapsing here. I do think that that is, and I agree with Mr. 
Grozev, that is, there is a lot of reasons why the information 
might not be publicly released, and I do think that is 
something we could address more in a Classified environment to 
explain that. But there are understandable reasons why the U.S. 
Government has not revealed much of what it knows. But the 
question is, how about to you?
    Mr. Goldman. But also, if I may, Mr. Chairman, to follow up 
on that, there is a conclusion that has been made public that 
it is highly, highly, highly unlikely. I forgot what the 
language is, that these symptoms were caused by some sort of 
foreign, malign actor.
    Mr. Zaid. Right. So the last ODNI assessment that came out 
in 2023 had indicated, and to the public, it seems very 
damning, this highly unlikely, that a foreign adversary was 
involved. But if you actually look at the levels within each of 
the agencies as to the level of credibility that they have 
assessed to that is actually quite low for most of them. There 
is a lot of pushback, even internally among some of the 
intelligence agencies as to the qualification of that 
information. I will say just very quickly, finally, they talk 
about in particular, I think, one of the CIA's public 
documents, that many of these cases can be explained through 
environmental factors, preexisting medical conditions, but they 
don't explain any of that, which could easily be said in 
another sentence. The environmental factors include the 
following. Whatever, whatever. We looked at prior health 
conditions, and 85 percent had football injuries when they 
played in high school and college. None of that information is 
in there. Which leads one to believe that there is something 
more.
    The other thing I will say just really quickly on that the 
news media missed the story on that CIA assessment. They said 
they looked at more than 1,000 cases and they concluded the 
vast majority could be explained otherwise. But there are at 
least 2 dozen cases that even the CIA acknowledges they can't 
explain away by any other alternative factors. That to me is 
the story that should have been in the New York Times and the 
Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, that there are 2 dozen 
cases the CIA can't even explain away.
    Mr. Goldman. Is that part of your 68, Mr. Grozev?
    Mr. Grozev. Absolutely, yes.
    Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, thank you for indulging. I yield 
back.
    Chairman Pfluger. Gentlemen's time has expired. The Chair 
now recognizes gentleman from California, Mr. Swalwell.
    Mr. Swalwell. Thank you. I thank the Chair and our Ranking 
Member for allowing me to waive on to this hearing. I thank the 
panelists. This is an issue that I know well from 8 years on 
the House Intelligence Committee. I first just want to say to 
Mr. Zaid that your clients, who you represent, are heroes. The 
people who were subjected to this are American heroes. I have 
met a number of them, and they served their country abroad. 
They toiled away oftentimes without their family, leaving 
everything here in the United States, and oftentimes without 
any of us really having a sense of what they are doing. They 
were exposed to this. This condition when you meet with the 
victims is completely debilitating. It changes your life. It 
turns it upside down. If you are a young parent, life is 
already disorienting. If you are subjected to this, it is even 
more difficult to be a parent. Put yourself through this, the 
questions you have.
    But something that I have been struck by in meeting with so 
many of these victims is, yes, they want to get well 
themselves. They have an obligation to their families to take 
care of their families. They have expectations of the agencies 
that they work for. But in every single one of them, they want 
to share as much as possible to prevent the next attack. So, 
their sense of duty, even after being attacked and even after 
being debilitated, is still, I don't want this to happen to 
somebody else. Mr. Zaid, I don't know if you can animate that 
just a little bit as to the patriotism of the people you 
represent and wanting to get to the bottom of this.
    Mr. Zaid. Thank you, Congressman. I agree 100 percent. It 
was mentioned by Mr. Edgreen, the notion of these oftentimes 
are the best of the best who have been impacted. I have heard 
repeatedly from so many of them that what they want to achieve 
here is to make sure that their peers, their colleagues, and 
their future colleagues do not have this happen to them and 
they want to go back to work. I mean, this is--most of them 
were in their thirties and forties when they were impacted and 
would still have long careers ahead of them. They want nothing 
more than to put their efforts into working for the national 
security interests of the United States. They are true heroes. 
I agree 100 percent.
    Mr. Swalwell. As we think forward about, you know, what can 
we do? This is the Homeland Security Committee. Obviously, this 
issue crosses jurisdictions. The House Intelligence Committee, 
Armed Services Committee, and Homeland Security Committee. But 
I would just welcome from the Lieutenant Colonel, how should we 
be thinking about this on the homeland? If this is indeed, you 
know, a foreign adversary, you know, using a technology or a 
technique, you know, how do we prevent it from coming onto the 
homeland where, you know, the targets, the target environment 
is even richer than Americans abroad.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Thank you, sir. First of all, I 
must say that, yes, there is needed, much-needed legislation. 
We need a new Havana Act, something that is not a one-term 
payment. It was a great step in the right direction, but it had 
some shortcomings that we are going to fix in the next go-
around. What you are referring to would obviously have to fall 
under the next Homeland Security Act and securing our borders, 
because if I hypothetically was going to plan an operation, I 
would have to get a couple guys across our border. They would 
go pick up a weapon and then start surveilling the target and 
then hit them and then disappear. So, I think there is a larger 
question there that I am not qualified to answer. But there is 
some long-term things that needs to be done in terms of new 
Acts. But in the short-term, we need to do things like 
implement the original Havana Act. DOD still hasn't done it. 
They still have not implemented the Havana Act. We need a VA 
diagnostic code. Thanks to the VFW brothers and sisters that 
are here today and for your meeting earlier, we don't have a VA 
diagnostic code for the 500-some DOD survivors. How are they 
going to get long-term care and disability without that?
    Mr. Swalwell. Well, I hope this issue you see in a room 
that is often contentious, explosive, volcanic, that you have 
got Members on both sides who first honor and salute the 
victims and want to do everything we can to make sure that they 
are made whole and if they can return, can return. Then of 
course, as the victims have wanted to do, make sure we do 
everything possible to prevent anyone else from suffering from 
this. I yield back. Thank you, Chairman.
    Chairman Pfluger. I thank the gentleman. We'll now enter a 
second round of questioning. I know we have a couple of other 
Members who were seeking to waive on and we will again 
alternate according to seniority on both sides of the aisle. So 
I recognize myself for another round of questioning.
    Let me just kind-of go back to Mr. Edgreen. When you look 
at what is your, I guess, analysis of how many victims you can 
identify that have occurred here in the United States? Then 
second, what has been the response by Government agencies to 
those, to those victims from the time that they report it to 
the communication between agencies, if any communication 
exists. Maybe focus a little bit on the FBI.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Yes. Thank you. I can't get 
into specifics about the numbers, but after having talked with 
Mr. Zaid about this, I could say comfortably.
    Chairman Pfluger. Why can't you talk about the numbers? 
Just so everybody can understand.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Because numbers and specific 
locations of attacks are Classified. But I can tell you roughly 
20 percent to 30 percent of the cases that I saw were in the 
homeland. In terms of the response on the homeland, it gets 
tricky because it involves authorities here within the FBI. 
What I have found is that we needed a faster response 
mechanism. The U.S. Government doesn't have a central 
clearinghouse for AHI's. So let us say someone in the air force 
is attacked on soil. How do you quickly find out about that and 
freeze the crime scene and go out and evaluate it?
    Chairman Pfluger. There is no coordination that is 
happening in between departments and agencies and 
organizations?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. It is happening, but it is very 
slow. It involves letterhead memorandum that takes weeks to 
process. CCTV footage expires in this town within 24 hours.
    Chairman Pfluger. Talk to me about the Classification, who 
classified it?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. You would have to ask the ODNI. 
They are the over--they oversaw all things related.
    Chairman Pfluger. Your understanding and what you are 
testifying to now is it is Classified. So there isn't an 
acknowledgement of an issue.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Clearly. Clearly, sir, there 
is.
    Chairman Pfluger. Mr. Grozev, I will ask you the same 
question. How has the FBI handled the complaints and the, you 
know, you want to call them the victim, if you want to call 
them the victims and their, I guess, reaching out to within the 
FBI, how have they handled it?
    Mr. Grozev. I am not privy to that investigation. From my 
incidental observations, my belief is that the FBI feel that 
they have to toe the line of the intelligence community on this 
topic. They feel, some of them feel that they wish they could 
do more to protect their own colleagues.
    Chairman Pfluger. OK. Are they being told, is it your 
feeling that they are being told from superiors or others 
within the FBI to stand down?
    Mr. Grozev. I do not have evidence they have been told. But 
being patriots, it might be a self-imposed limitation to not 
contradict the overall finding of the Director of National 
Intelligence.
    Chairman Pfluger. I will ask the same thing to you, Mr. 
Zaid. Is that your understanding or is there something similar 
to that going on?
    Mr. Zaid. Without a doubt. I think the FBI is becoming 
better, more receptive. But I will give you a perfect example. 
In March 2021, the FBI drafted a work-force message concerning 
AHI's to go to everyone about what to do, how to report it. It 
took them 6 months to issue that notice. During that time, my 
client, Carrie, who is in the 60 Minutes episode, was hit. That 
work-force message still didn't go out. It took a long time to 
even get medical care for many of the FBI victims, it has been 
a complicated process. There are specifics that we could 
absolutely provide to you in a more protected environment, more 
so for the privacy of the individuals, but also from a 
classification standpoint, that would show you where the system 
has broken down.
    Chairman Pfluger. How high does this go? We are talking 
about, as has been testified to today, high successful, well-
performing people. But I mean, can you give us some details 
about how high this goes in our government?
    Mr. Zaid. From a victim standpoint?
    Chairman Pfluger. Yes, from a victim standpoint.
    Mr. Zaid. I mean, it has been reported. Individuals 
connected to the NSC and the White House.
    Chairman Pfluger. Those as Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen--
those that could brief the President.
    Mr. Zaid. Yes, and some of them have been public in some 
prior 60 Minutes episodes of believing that they have been 
impacted. I mean, there would be evidence that would be in the 
Classified sphere.
    Chairman Pfluger. Of the incidents that are happening in, 
say, Northern Virginia, Washington, DC. Are families, family 
members, also reporting having symptoms and being attacked?
    Mr. Zaid. Not as many. Usually it has been in the overseas 
locations where the family members have been impacted. 
Generally, because it is as I described in that NSA memo, 
bathing the residence. You know, they have no idea who might be 
inside the residence. That is why literally pets have been 
impacted because they have been in the beam, the wave, 
whatever. Most there have been Government buildings impacted in 
Northern Virginia, and it's usually been individuals either in 
their home, hotels, or driving.
    Chairman Pfluger. Is it the Panel's belief that this is 
primarily happening attributed to Russian operatives?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. I have said this before. There 
is an extremely strong Russia nexus inside China. I think that 
changes a bit.
    Chairman Pfluger. Quickly, Mr. Grozev.
    Mr. Grozev. We have the specific evidence of Russian 
operatives being in China at the time when American diplomats 
suffered incidents. This could not have happened without the 
knowledge and at least passive cooperation by Chinese 
intelligence. Which means Chinese intelligence would be exposed 
to the capabilities and possibility of such a weapon. Which 
probably means they have developed their own version or 
borrowed it from Russia.
    Chairman Pfluger. Thank you. All right, my time has 
expired. I recognize the Ranking Member.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you. Mr. Edgreen, we started talking 
about, you know, the lack of Government action, recognizing 
this issue. You compare this to Agent Orange and some of the 
other ailments our military personnel have suffered. It takes 
decades to acknowledge that, yes, this is an issue, it is a 
medical issue to be taken care of, to be treated on a long-term 
basis. It is kind-of where we started today. I think that I 
agree with you and with Chairman and Mr. Swalwell, who worked 
on this issue for a long time, that we do have to take care of 
the victims the best we can. Now we are shifting to something 
else, which is essentially a cover-up. What you all are saying 
is there is a Government cover-up of the fact that something is 
out there afflicting, targeting us. Is this where we are going 
with this?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Thank you. Great points. I 
won't get into classification of the problems. I will tell you 
that the Government in the IC assessment is wrong. It is dead 
wrong. I can't tell you if it is a cover-up, why they are doing 
this. Malfeasance. I won't go there. What I can tell you is 
that it is my firm belief we already have attribution. Right 
now is the time for action, retribution. We need to prioritize 
taking care of our people. Because there is a lot of survivors 
and their families that have been attacked here in the homeland 
that are in a long wait line to get to Walter Reed. Because we 
are not executing funding that's already been allocated by you 
gentlemen to take care of these survivors. You fix Walter Reed 
in the Defense Health Program. Everyone benefits.
    Mr. Correa. Mr. Zaid.
    Mr. Zaid. So, sir, I have been working in the national 
security field for 30 years, representing some of our most 
covert intelligence officers, who I respect a great deal, and 
the agencies. The word cover-up. I will tell you that there are 
many legitimate reasons why there could be what the agencies 
are doing to explain why they are doing it. What I will tell 
you is----
    Mr. Correa. Would you say a cover-up as a statement, or 
other words.
    Mr. Zaid. So cover-up would depend on intent. There could 
be good reasons to withhold information. I will say that the 
public statements that the Executive branch is making is 
inconsistent with the Classified record, and then it would be 
Congress's job as an oversight authority to determine why that 
is, whether it was a legitimate reason to mislead the public, 
or because of some nefarious reason, or all the above. But the 
record on the inside, in the Classified theater, is not 
consistent with the public statements.
    Mr. Correa. Mr. Grozev.
    Mr. Grozev. If this is true, and it depends partly on 
Classified data that I am not privy to, then it is a judgment 
call that was made to mislead the public in the interest of 
national, international security interest. But it would be up 
to Congress to decide whether that judgment call was correct. 
One additional effect of such a judgment call that may not have 
been taken into account is the effect of encouraging the 
hostile power in the hypothesis that this is indeed a Russian, 
a covert operation, and the whole intelligence community of the 
United States has publicly denied this ever happening. This 
will be such a trigger, such an incentive for Russia to 
escalate, and to--it will be for somebody who knows how the 
mind of President Putin works, I can tell you that if they did 
it, and the U.S. Government has concluded they didn't do it, 
this will encourage an escalation in the war in Ukraine. This 
will encourage an escalation because this person thinks the 
rest of the world are complete idiots, and really, that is how 
his mind works. So take this into account when you assess the 
judgment call.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you. Any other thoughts, Chairman? Go 
ahead, Mr. Edgreen.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. I would just like to thank this 
committee for focusing on this issue. One of the things we 
always did at the DIA was not questioning the individual. Are 
they really having symptoms? We got immediate care for every 
single symptom, and I think that is the right way to do it. In 
terms of attribution, I think we over-empowered CIA analysts, 
and when they kicked it up the food chain to ODNI for NIC 
assessment, when you look at it, the people they kicked it up 
to were other CIA analysts on loan. So this was a self-licking 
ice cream cone. We need more people inside the Department of 
Defense or with an operational background to look at this, 
because if you show an analyst flowers, they are going to look 
for a wedding. You show a case officer those flowers, they are 
going to look for a funeral.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Chairman, I yield.
    Chairman Pfluger. I thank the Ranking Member. Chair and I 
recognize the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Crane.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This next question is 
for Mr. Zaid and Edgreen. Are either of you aware of any 
individuals who have AHI symptoms have passed away from their 
ailments?
    Mr. Zaid. I do.
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. I do.
    Mr. Crane. Do we know how many that you are aware of? We 
need to discuss that somewhere else.
    Mr. Zaid. For the privacy of the families. It is a small 
community.
    Mr. Crane. Right. Mr. Chairman, are we going to be able to 
move into a Classified setting at some point or at another 
time?
    Chairman Pfluger. I think that possibility will exist at a 
later time.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is concerns that 
the FBI has totally dropped the ball on this investigation. 
Would the panelists agree with that assessment?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. I would. I would say that a 
great question for you to ask is to the FBI, how many people 
did you have assigned to this? They are going to come back with 
a big number, and then you are going to ask how many people 
were assigned to this full-time? Then you are going to see the 
looks on their faces. Because by my accounts, I had roughly 2 
officers from the field office. I had a GS15 at headquarters 
and an analyst, and the best one out of all of them was the 
analyst. I will say they all had additional duties. That wasn't 
their main job. They were doing things like looking at January 
6th, looking at terrorism threats here in DC. So it's been very 
small, hasn't been resourced properly. Any time you work with 
the FBI, and this is fascinating because I did my whole career 
abroad, it is easier. They put things into a black box. One of 
the main problems we had is they had on a criminal hat--CRIM, 
as they say it, in the FBI, and not a CI hat.
    Mr. Crane. Gotcha. Do you believe that Homeland Security 
Investigations should get engaged in this investigation?
    Lieutenant Colonel Edgreen. Absolutely. Because they were 
cut out. You only had, I believe, my time there. One Homeland 
Security Officer, she was an analyst for Secret Service. 
Homeland Security Investigation should be involved.
    Mr. Crane. Have any of you 3 panelists ever seen one of 
these weapons?
    Mr. Grozev. I have seen a 1991 version of the weapon. It 
looks like a satellite dish with a unit this size attached to 
it. Of course, over the years, miniaturization has been 
possible. Obviously, there is a limitation to how miniaturized 
it can be because of the antenna size, which can always, is 
always related to the wave. But still, it is something that can 
be well-contained in the trunk of a car, or even a large 
backpack.
    Mr. Crane. Is this a type of weapon that could be cobbled 
together once foreign operatives are on our own soil? Or is 
this something that would have to be manufactured in a nation-
state?
    Mr. Grozev. My experience shows that it can be cobbled 
together. It is something that can. A rough, crude version of 
this that will probably require longer exposure than the more 
advanced version that has been tested, as we see from this 
document, can be put together inexpensively. But again, I would 
abstain from commenting further, lest I encourage people to try 
it at home.
    Mr. Crane. That would make this weapon and this tactic even 
more dangerous, wouldn't it, Mr. Grozev?
    Mr. Grozev. Correct.
    Mr. Crane. Can you tell us, sir, about this contract you 
discovered for these weapons?
    Mr. Grozev. The contract was an award by the Institute for 
Prospective Military Studies. An annual award. That means that 
this was the best development for a unit. Research, 
development, achievement for a unit whose goal is to encourage 
the production and manufacturing and discovery and invention in 
the area of new weapons, both lethal and non-lethal. I know 
that this same commander won the award of this institute 2 
years in a row. We are only privy to one of his devices, to one 
of his achievements. We don't know what the subsequent year's 
delivery from him was. But again, I mentioned this in order for 
you to understand that the perceived value, the perceived merit 
by the Kremlin of this particular award, of this particular 
achievement, was high enough for it to be done. The only award 
for the year, and for this person to achieve a political 
placement, a position that is not usual for a security 
operative. This is the value of our finding. This was a very 
momentous moment for the Kremlin, this particular achievement.
    Mr. Crane. Mr. Chairman, can I have 30 more seconds? I 
think it was you, Mr. Grozev, who said that in your 
investigation, you were able to conclude that one of these 
units who was operating on our soil was found near individuals 
that contracted these illnesses. How were you able to confirm 
this unit's proximity to individuals who experienced these 
injuries?
    Mr. Grozev. We have used, over the years, an amalgamation 
of data sources from the Russian market of data, which is a 
unique phenomenon. We have obtained border crossing data. We 
have obtained ticketing data, hotel reservation data, and 
telephone communication data for essentially 60 members of this 
unit that we have identified over the years.
    Mr. Crane. Have any of them been apprehended, Mr. Grozev?
    Mr. Grozev. Several of them have been indicted. Four of 
them are. Six of them are indicted in Bulgaria over, including 
the person that we just referred to, the engineer who 
discovered the acoustic weapon or delivered it. They are 
indicted, but they are obviously there, hidden, well-hidden in 
Russia, and cannot be apprehended.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Pfluger. Gentleman yields. This now concludes the 
questioning portion of the hearing, and I would like to thank 
the witnesses. Thank you for your time, your service, for being 
able to come here today and share with us. Obviously, as my 
colleagues on both sides of the aisle have said, the health, 
the well-being of all of the service members and Government 
officials, it is very concerning. What we have heard today is 
very concerning. I think as we look at the next steps, I would 
just encourage continued communication with this subcommittee, 
with other subcommittees and committees that are looking at 
this as well. The Members of the subcommittee may have some 
additional questions for the witnesses, and we would ask you to 
please respond to these in writing. Pursuant to committee rule 
VII(D), the hearing record will be open for 10 days. Without 
objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:20 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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