[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                    INTERIOR, ENVIRONMENT, AND RELATED
                     AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2025
_______________________________________________________________________

                                 HEARINGS

                                 BEFORE A

                           SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE

                       COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

                         HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                     ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                              SECOND SESSION
                              
                              __________


       SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERIOR, ENVIRONMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES

                   MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho, Chairman

  MARK E. AMODEI, Nevada		CHELLIE PINGREE, Maine
  GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania	BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota
  MICHAEL CLOUD, Texas			DEREK KILMER, Washington
  RYAN K. ZINKE, Montana		JOSH HARDER, California
  JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
  CHUCK EDWARDS, North Carolina

  NOTE: Under committee rules, Mr. Cole, as chairman of the full 
committee, and Ms. DeLauro, as ranking minority member of the full 
committee, are authorized to sit as members of all subcommittees.

             Kristin Clarkson, Sarah Peery, Courtney Stevens,
                     Maggie Earle, and Scott Prutting
                            Subcommittee Staff
                            
                            __________
                            

                                  PART 4

                                                                   Page

  American Indian and Alaska Native 
Public Witness Day 2_Morning Session....
                                                                      1
  American Indian and Alaska Native 
Public Witness Day 2_Afternoon Session..
                                                                    241

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                             __________
                             
                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
58-050                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                              

                     COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

                                ----------                              
                      TOM COLE, Oklahoma, Chairman


  HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky,
    Chair Emeritus
  KAY GRANGER, Texas,
    Chair Emeritus
  ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama
  MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho
  JOHN R. CARTER, Texas
  KEN CALVERT, California
  MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida
  STEVE WOMACK, Arkansas
  CHARLES J. ``CHUCK'' FLEISCHMANN,
    Tennessee
  DAVID P. JOYCE, Ohio
  ANDY HARRIS, Maryland
  MARK E. AMODEI, Nevada
  DAVID G. VALADAO, California
  DAN NEWHOUSE, Washington
  JOHN R. MOOLENAAR, Michigan
  JOHN H. RUTHERFORD, Florida
  BEN CLINE, Virginia
  GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
  MIKE GARCIA, California
  ASHLEY HINSON, Iowa
  TONY GONZALES, Texas
  JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana
  MICHAEL CLOUD, Texas
  MICHAEL GUEST, Mississippi
  RYAN K. ZINKE, Montana
  ANDREW S. CLYDE, Georgia
  JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas
  JERRY L. CARL, Alabama
  STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma
  SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida
  JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
  JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona
  CHUCK EDWARDS, North Carolina

  ROSA L. DeLAURO, Connecticut
  STENY H. HOYER, Maryland
  MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio
  SANFORD D. BISHOP, Jr., Georgia
  BARBARA LEE, California
  BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota
  C. A. DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER,
    Maryland
  DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, Florida
  HENRY CUELLAR, Texas
  CHELLIE PINGREE, Maine
  MIKE QUIGLEY, Illinois
  DEREK KILMER, Washington
  MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania
  GRACE MENG, New York
  MARK POCAN, Wisconsin
  PETE AGUILAR, California
  LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
  BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey
  NORMA J. TORRES, California
  ED CASE, Hawaii
  ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
  JOSH HARDER, California
  JENNIFER WEXTON, Virginia
  DAVID J. TRONE, Maryland
  LAUREN UNDERWOOD, Illinois
  SUSIE LEE, Nevada
  JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York
  
                           SUSAN ROSS, Clerk and Staff Director
                           
                                       (ii)
  
  

 
     DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, ENVIRONMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES 
                        APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2025

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.
                              ----------                              


         TESTIMONY OF INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS

                              ----------                              


                AMERICAN INDIAN AND ALASKA NATIVE PUBLIC 
                      WITNESS DAY 2--MORNING SESSION

                                WITNESS

ROBERT MIGUEL, CHAIRMAN, AK-CHIN INDIAN COMMUNITY
    Mr. Simpson. The committee will come to order.
    Good morning, and welcome to the second day of our public 
witness hearings for American Indian and Alaska Native 
Programs. I also want to welcome all the distinguished tribal 
elders and leaders here today and to thank our witnesses for 
appearing before the committee and sharing your concerns on 
these important issues. I know it is not always easy to travel 
to Washington, DC. Coming from Idaho, I know how long that is, 
so I appreciate you coming today.
    In terms of hearing logistics, I will call each panel of 
witnesses to the table, one panel at a time. Each witness will 
have 5 minutes to present their testimony. Your full written 
testimony will be included in the record, so please don't feel 
pressured to cover everything in 5 minutes. We will be using a 
timer to track the progress of each witness. When the light 
turns orange, the witness will have 1 minute remaining to 
conclude his or her remarks. When the light turns red, we will 
have to ask the witnesses to stop to remain on schedule because 
we have a lot of testimony to get through today. We will hear 
from every witness on each panel before members will be 
provided an opportunity to ask questions. Because we have a 
full day ahead, I request that we try to keep things moving so 
we can stay on schedule and respect each other's time.
    I also want to note that committee rules prohibit the use 
of outside cameras and audio equipment during these hearings. 
The hearing can be viewed in its entirety on the committee's 
website, and an official hearing transcript will be available 
at GOP.gov.
    I am happy to yield to Ranking Member Pingree for any 
remarks that she may have.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Good morning 
to everyone. I want to repeat his welcome and just thank you 
for traveling great distances. To you and all of the witnesses 
that we will hear from today, we really appreciate you taking 
your time and coming from long distances to be with us. It may 
seem at times like 5 minutes isn't very long to tell us all the 
things that we would like to hear from you, but I want you to 
know it makes a huge difference to us, 2 days of listening to 
people, compiling what you all have to say, and many of the 
similarities of the challenges that certain tribes are facing. 
So it really is very beneficial to the committee to preparing 
the 2025 appropriations bill, and we are really grateful for 
you being here to do that. So I will yield back to the chair.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Robert, you are up first.
    Mr. Miguel. Good morning, Chairman Simpson, Ranking Member 
Pingree, and members of the subcommittee. On behalf of the 
entire Ogden Indian Community in Maricopa, Arizona, thank you 
for providing this opportunity to share our funding priorities 
for the 2025 fiscal year. It is a pleasure to be here with all 
of you once again.
    Again, my name is Robert Miguel, and I have served as 
chairman for the Ak-Chin Indian Community for 9 years. In my 
time as chairman, I have seen our community achieve 
transformative successes, and that success will help us attain 
the exciting future we are creating.
    Our community's funding priorities for the upcoming year 
include increasing support for our public necessity programs, 
including public health, public safety, infrastructure, and the 
like. Additionally, we are also concerned with the logistical 
challenges created by the processes through which funds are 
administered. This includes the need for advanced 
appropriations for IHS and BIA, burdens in the grant process, 
and government agencies' commitment to promoting self-
governance.
    Public Health. Public health and safety of our community is 
our top priority. We are exploring opportunities to open and 
operate our own health clinic, and our existing clinic needs 
funds to maintain and expand the direct care services performed 
on site. We also request increased funding for the Purchase 
Referred Care Program, which facilitates treatment of services 
the existing clinic is not equipped to handle. Health funding 
is vital to ensuring the well-being of our community.
    Public Safety and Justice. Our public safety programs 
provide on-ground support for our members, visitors, and 
growing neighboring communities. We respectfully request that 
the committee maintains its commitments to the Ak-Chin people 
with appropriate increases in public safety and justice funding 
for fiscal year 2025. Our membership benefits when the police 
are integrated into the fabric of our communities as trusted 
neighbors and friends. This requires investment into programs 
and resources, but, in turn, it creates a safer and more 
cohesive community.
    Social Services and Education. We also seek increased 
funding for health and human services and education. The 
behavioral and mental health issues confronting Indian Country 
are well documented, and addressing these challenges is a major 
component of our work to promote the community's health and 
safety. As a community with many young members, we must 
adequately fund social services to strengthen families and 
provide the next generation with a happy and healthy home to 
grow. We prioritize education's role in ensuring the brightest 
future for our young members. Ak-Chin uses the Johnson O'Malley 
funds we receive to directly benefit our school-age children 
and prepare them for success in the classroom.
    Infrastructure Improvements and Maintenance. We are proud 
of our community's growth, but with more members comes 
increased burdens to infrastructure. We must address these 
issues with funding for maintenance of existing resources, but 
also for new capital projects. Unfortunately, current funding 
is too low to support even maintenance needs. Take internet 
access, for one example. The Biden administration's broadband 
grant has helped us expand internet coverage, but our neighbors 
continue to grow, and we must keep up. Our young people are 
resilient and work hard, but no student should be forced to 
drive to a local McDonald's parking lot at night to submit a 
work assignment because they lack access to internet. We still 
have those problems.
    105 Lease Operations and Maintenance. As the committee is 
aware, the 105 Lease Program allows the reimbursement of 
facility repairs when part of a facility is used to carry out 
self-determination programs. Many of our eligible facilities 
need repairs, but we have experienced serious difficulty and 
delay using these programs. The program appears backlogged and 
underfunded. If adequately funded, 105 offers an exciting 
opportunity to ensure earmarks for programs go directly where 
they are needed most. Instead, we sometimes find ourselves with 
major facility issues, like a leaking roof, that requires us to 
direct funds to address these facility costs first.
    Promoting Efficiency in Grant Funding Processes. We 
appreciate initiatives like the administration's Executive 
Order 14112 on self-determination and government's commitment 
to respect tribal authority and autonomy and promote our shared 
interests. I have witnessed promising improvements to the 
appropriations and funding process, but we must continue to 
ensure bureaucratic red tape and a complicated applications 
process do not prevent an efficient funding process.
    Again, I want to thank the committee for allowing us to be 
here once again, and I cannot emphasize the importance of these 
issues to our community's priorities and continued growth. At 
this time, I would like to recognize my daughter, Stella 
McGill, and the entire student body at A+ Charter School in 
Maricopa, Arizona, who are watching online. Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Miguel follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Welcome to all you students from Maricopa 
County. Thank you, Robert. Sherry.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                             HUALAPAI TRIBE


                                WITNESS

SHERRY J. PARKER, CHAIRWOMAN, HUALAPAI TRIBE
    Ms. Parker. Good morning. My name is Sherry Parker. I am 
the chairwoman of the Hualapai Tribe located in Peach Springs, 
Arizona. I would like to thank the subcommittee for the 
opportunity to present this testimony in support of the Bureau 
of Indian Affairs' request in the amount of $45 million to 
begin to fulfill the United States' obligation under the 
Hualapai Tribe Water Rights settlement of 2022.
    The Hualapai Reservation encompasses approximately 1 
million acres in Northwestern Arizona. The Colorado River forms 
108 mile northern boundary of the reservation through a portion 
of the Grand Canyon. The reservation is arid. It has no 
significant surface streams other than the Colorado River. It 
has very limited groundwater resources. The tribe's groundwater 
wells are a depleted resource, and well levels in the 
reservation have dropped significantly over the years.
    The Hualapai Tribe settlement resolves the tribe's reserved 
water rights claims in the State of Arizona. It resolves the 
tribe's claims. The act secures the 4,000-acre feet of Central 
Arizona Project water for the Colorado River, and authorizing 
$312 million to be deposited into Hualapai Water Tribe Fund to 
allow the tribe to implement the settlement by constructing and 
operating an infrastructure project to deliver this water to 
the reservation.
    The Settlement Act provides that Congress must appropriate 
all the settlement funds by April 15, 2029 for the settlement 
to remain in effect. If this does not happen, the Settlement 
Act will, by its terms, be repealed, and the benefits of the 
settlement for not only the tribe, but for all the parties, 
including the United States, the State of Arizona, the Central 
Arizona Project, the Saltwater Project, the Salt River Project, 
and Freeport Minerals Company, will evaporate.
    A key component of the Settlement Act is that as soon as 
any appropriated funds are deposited into the Hualapai Water 
Trust Fund, the tribe can begin to expend these monies to do 
compliance activities required by Federal law for construction 
of the infrastructure project, including the environmental 
studies required by the National Environmental Policy Act. The 
appropriation of the $45 million requested by the Bureau of 
Indian Affairs will allow the tribe to begin to do this 
important NEPA work now so that when the trust fund is fully 
funded, the tribe can begin to do the actual construction of 
the project that will finally deliver a safe and secure supply 
of water to the reservation. It is urgent that this be 
accomplished as soon as possible for the reasons set forth 
below.
    The tribe's principal residential community in Peach 
Springs relies exclusively on three groundwater wells in the 
Truxton aquifer near the reservation's southern boundary. Since 
those wells were installed in 1975, the piping for the system 
is 49 years old and has failed in the recent past, leaving our 
community without water for several days. One of the wells has 
suffered episodes of dangerous E. coli and chloroform 
contamination. We have not been able to identify the source of 
the contamination.
    When the well is out of service because of contamination, 
we are unable to supply sufficient water to the community, so 
we have to implement strict mandatory conservation measures. 
Because the groundwater is currently the only source of water 
for our residential needs on the reservation, we are very 
vulnerable to any short-term interruptions in supply from these 
wells and also to the long term decline in the levels of the 
Truxton aquifer that supplies our groundwater.
    This situation is even worse elsewhere on the reservation. 
On the western side of the reservation, the tribe successfully 
operates a tourist attraction called Grand Canyon West that 
overlooks the Grand Canyon and has 1 million visitors per year. 
While employing several hundred tribal members for the past 3 
years after two wells that served Grand Canyon West failed, the 
tribe has been forced to haul water 15 miles to the original 
well sites where the water must then be pumped for 35 miles out 
of the Grand Canyon out to the Grand Canyon West. This 
patchwork system is burdensome, insecure, and very expensive, 
but it is the only way we continue our vital tourist operations 
at Grand Canyon West.
    The $45 million in the BIA funding request is the first 
installment in the Hualapai Tribe Water Rights Settlement Act 
and is essential if the tribe is to attain a secure future on 
the reservation. We have done everything possible to allow our 
reservation to be a permanent, livable homeland, including 
developing government, developing an economy to provide jobs 
and income to our people, but the lack of secure and 
replenishable water supply on the reservation has been a major 
obstacle that prevents us from achieving economic self-
sufficiency, a goal that the Federal Indian policy has long 
favored.
    On the history of Indian land and water settlements, 
Congress has never failed to provide the funding necessary by 
the enforceability date of a settlement. Therefore, we urgently 
ask the subcommittee to now take the first step to full 
implementation of the act and include $45 million in the Bureau 
of Indian Affairs Indian Rights water rights settlement account 
for the Hualapai Tribe Act Settlement.
    Friends, as leaders, we all do our best for the future of 
those we serve. This Water Settlement Act is for the future of 
our children, our grandchildren, and those yet to come. So we 
leaders of today depend and hope for this water settlement 
appropriations for the future existence of the Hualapai Tribe 
and its people, that we can support all of those that we all 
serve. Thank you for this opportunity to speak, and as always, 
may God bless the Hualapai Tribe, all tribal nations, and the 
United States of America. Great is the Nation whose God is the 
Lord. Thank you.
    [The statement of Ms. Parker follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Sherry. Thank you both for your 
testimony.
    Indian water rights has become a bigger and bigger issue, 
whether it is in Oklahoma or whether it is in Arizona, whether 
it is in Idaho, and that is something that we are going to have 
to deal with. People sometimes forget, out West we live in a 
desert, and water is a huge issue. So we look forward to 
working with you on trying to get these water rights 
settlements funded.
    Robert, I appreciate your testimony. If 2 or 3 or 4 years 
ago, somebody would have asked me what will be the issues that 
they talk about the most here in these 2 days of tribal 
hearings, I would have guessed a hundred percent it would be 
healthcare. And I am not hearing a lot of healthcare, not that 
it is not important, but most of the focus is on some other 
things. I think that is in large part due to the work that our 
ranking member did on advanced appropriations for NIH. And 
while our amount is not anywhere near where it should be to 
address the needs, there seems to be much more focus this year 
on Indian law enforcement and the challenges that brings, and 
the fact that you have huge reservations with very few 
officers, missing and murdered indigenous women, and education.
    So the focus has kind of changed, we have put resources 
mainly into trying to improve the healthcare system but we need 
to start focusing on those other things, like law enforcement 
and education on Indian reservations. So I sincerely appreciate 
your testimony.
    One of the things I would say is I have been approached by 
several tribes across the country about if Indian Health 
Services is the best way to deliver healthcare to the tribes, 
or whether we could do more by direct appropriation to the 
tribes rather than go through Health and Human Services. I 
don't know the answer to that, and I have asked Indian Health 
Services the same questions. Are we looking at the right model 
of how to get the best bang for the buck that we spend on 
health services.
    And we are going to be pursuing this with the tribes. Is 
there a model that is better in getting it done, making sure 
that the dollars that we do spend are used most effectively. I 
don't expect anybody to answer this, but let's put some thought 
into it.
    You know, the people who care most about the healthcare of 
their tribal members are the tribes, and so I don't have any 
problem with a direct appropriation. It is more difficult than 
it sounds to do and to make it fair. And it might be right for 
some larger tribes that could do that. Smaller tribes might 
have difficulty doing that, but I think it is something that we 
ought to always look at trying to improve on the services that 
we have and how we deliver those services. So I would be 
interested as we get into this issue, for your input on what 
you think about this. It is not going to be the same for every 
tribe, but let's talk about it and see if we can do better 
while we work on trying to improve these other areas. Thank you 
both for your testimony today.
    Mr. Miguel. Thank you for that, Chairman Simpson, and you 
hit the nail on the head. There are 574 tribes in the United 
States of America, federally-recognized tribes. I would 
challenge the committee and the administration to go and visit 
some of these tribes that don't have their voices, that don't 
have the ability or the resources to come here and advocate for 
themselves.
    Mr. Simpson. Yeah.
    Mr. Miguel. There are a number of them out there. So in 
order for us to make things right, we need to look out for 
those. What we say are the tribes that don't have a voice, that 
can't be here, they are just as important as we are. We are 
able to be here to advocate and move our issues across, but 
there are a number of other tribes out there that are 
forgotten, so please, please reach out to them also.
    Mr. Simpson. I appreciate that very much. When I was 
chairman before, we did some traveling out to some of the 
reservations because it is important for us to meet you on your 
lands and see firsthand what is going on and what the 
challenges are and so forth. And I know we have done the same 
thing when both Representative McCollum and Representative 
Pingree were chairmen of this committee, and it is something we 
need to continue doing. It is one thing to call you back here 
for 5 minutes of testimony and talk to you about it. It is 
something else to go out on the reservation and actually talk 
to people and see the challenges that you are facing on the 
reservations. It kind of changes your mind.
    And you are right, there are a lot of tribes. We are going 
to have more testimony from more tribes this time than I think 
we have ever had, which is a great response. I love that, but 
you are right. There are a lot of tribes that can't afford to 
and can't make their arrangements to come and testify before 
Congress. So thank you for those comments. Ms. Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah. I think the chair covered it very well. 
Thank you so much for your testimony, and we certainly have 
heard a lot in the past day about law enforcement, and it 
really stems from the fact that we are only funding about 15 
percent of the need or less, so obviously, that is a very 
serious concern. I think every tribe would tell us they still 
have concerns around healthcare, education. We hear about the 
roads, the infrastructure, and the water settlements, you know, 
we learn a lot about each one when someone comes before us, and 
I can see the dire need to make sure that your community can 
survive and continue the economic development that you have 
been doing, so we will definitely give that some focus. So 
thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you both for being here.
    Ms. McCollum. If I could, Mr. Miguel, I would like to go 
back to the Johnson O'Malley because it has come up here 
before, and the three of us have worked on Johnson O'Malley to 
get a count and everything else. Now we are hearing the money 
is not going out. Tribes have a youth bulge. That is a good 
thing. That means families are staying, but it also brings with 
it--I used to teach high school--a lot of unique challenges as 
they get older. So you mentioned the broadband, the internet 
and everything else.
    Could maybe the two of you, if you have the information at 
the top of your tongue, that is great. If you don't, if you 
could get back to us. We are going to try to do a brief on what 
is happening with Johnson O'Malley funds. But we heard 
yesterday, I think they were in arrears like almost 3 years for 
Johnson O'Malley, and the broadband shouldn't be paid out of 
Johnson O'Malley. I want to be very clear about that. We need 
to speed that up. But Johnson O'Malley is something you could 
use. And then for your cultural centers, also for youth, right? 
So cultural centers are available for the 501. Life, health, 
and safety are supposed to be the priorities. Could you just 
take a second and embellish on that a little more if you want 
to add anything more?
    Ms. Parker. Yes. We have Johnson O'Malley on our 
reservation, and I think it is just a really limited budget 
that kind of helps us to get our students back and forth and 
help provide a little bit of the education supplement that they 
might need, and also for parents to go back and forth to attend 
graduations and education and stuff like that. But we have a 
lot of situations, and this is only one part of our water 
rights settlement. But everything stems from trying to get our 
children, and those are our most important assets, getting them 
the education, getting them the funds that they need to go 
attend school wherever they may please.
    So we are trying our greatest to make sure that we do that, 
but we do fall short funds and on money to make sure that we 
can help our people, so this is just one part of what we are 
requesting and what we are looking at. But we do have issues 
with law enforcement, with healthcare, and with all the other 
stuff that comes along with that, but we are making a great 
effort to address all those issues within our reservation, but 
we still don't have everything that we need. But we appreciate 
you listening to us and coming here to push these things 
forward. And there is a lot. There is a lot more than just one 
thing.
    Mr. Miguel. Yes, and Johnson O'Malley is limited within our 
community, but we also use funding through Johnson O'Malley for 
just different programs for our youth and even our early 
childhood. So we are always looking at other opportunities, 
but, again, it is limited. We do most of the funding overall, 
but Johnson O'Malley does provide some gap closure as far as 
what we need to fund as we move forward. So we are benefiting 
from it, but we would like to do much more than what we have 
today, so.
    Ms. McCollum. Thank you. So, Mr. Chair, I agree with all 
the remarks that you and the ranking member made, and we were 
talking about mandating healthcare at one point. These water 
settlements are judgments. These water settlements are 
contracts the United States Government entered into, and the 
settlement is kind of a one-time settlement, and paying for 
these settlements out of the budget that we have is not going 
to work. And so I think the administration and the Congress 
need to figure out how to get these dollars out. And I would 
think a water settlement, once we sign our names--it is not a 
treaty, but it is similar to it, right--should be paid. And 
this would be one-time mandated money, and maybe that is 
something we can talk to our colleagues on Ways and Means and 
the rest on because other than that, it is going to be a huge 
price tag.
    And to their point, it falls apart if the money doesn't 
come in. Then we are spending money on attorneys to do this all 
over again, and the suffering, the disappointment, and the lack 
of us being responsible to another document that the Federal 
Government signed to is another broken promise on the many we 
are trying to mend. So we are going to give him, not a magic 
gavel, but a magic wand at the end to fix everything. Thank 
you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Simpson. I appreciate that, and I always thought that 
is why we had a judgment fund in the Department of Justice is 
to pay for settlements, so that is something we need to look 
at, too. Mr. Edwards.
    Mr. Edwards. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the newest member of 
this committee, I would just like to extend my appreciation to 
you for coming to D.C. to share what is important to you. I am 
recognizing I have one tribe in my district, but the needs of 
that tribe are significantly different than those that I am 
hearing from these sessions. So I am finding them very useful, 
very informative. Thank you for taking the time to come and 
share your needs and thoughts with us.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you both for being here today, and 
welcome to our visitors from Arizona that are listening by 
camera and your students, and we appreciate them participating 
in this, but thank you all. I appreciate your testimony.
    Mr. Miguel. Could I recognize one more person?
    Mr. Simpson. Sure.
    Mr. Miguel. Just one more person. I am sorry. We mentioned 
water. Ak-Chin was the first to ever have its water settlement 
recognized, and I would like to recognize the late Leona Kaker 
who spearheaded our cause. We lost her about 3 weeks ago, and 
again, she was an icon and who I call the greatest leader the 
Ak-Chin Indian Comyty has ever had. So I would like to 
recognize her, Leona Kaker.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. I appreciate that very much, and, 
you know, I look at what is happened in the Colorado River 
basin, from the Upper Basin to the Lower Basin. Man, there are 
some needs there. I have always said in Idaho, and I suspect it 
is true in Arizona and other dry, arid States, is that there is 
no problem that a really good water year won't solve. So 
anyway, thank you all for being here today. I appreciate it.
    Mr. Miguel. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Lewis, Mr. Chavez, Mr. Leslie, Mr. Nygren.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Lewis, you are first.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                      GILA RIVER INDIAN COMMUNITY


                                WITNESS

STEPHEN ROE LEWIS, GOVERNOR, GILA RIVER INDIAN COMMUNITY
    Mr. Lewis. [Speaking native language.] Good morning. 
Chairman Simpson and Ranking Member Pingree, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify on behalf of the Gila River Indian 
Community. Today I will highlight three appropriation requests: 
first, funding to implement the Community's 2018 trust 
accounting claim; second, legislative language to clarify that 
a great expansion at the Casablanca Community School is 
authorized and approved; and third, mandatory funding for the 
Section 105(l) Program.
    The Community's Trust Accounting Act was signed into law on 
December 21 of 2018. The act specifically mandated the 
surveying of all Federal rights of way within the reservation 
within 6 years of enactment of the law, subject to 
appropriations. Now, Chairman, we are now in our 6th year, and 
unfortunately, the surveys are far from complete because of 
insufficient appropriations. Without these surveys, critical 
infrastructure projects that impact our roadways, canals, and 
electrical system infrastructure will be delayed because of the 
lack of Federal rights-of-way documentation.
    Now, during this time of renewed Federal investment in the 
Nation's infrastructure, the incomplete surveys will delay 
critical infrastructure projects on our reservation now. Now, 
Chairman, while the Community appreciates the $1 million 
appropriated to date, the current estimate for fiscal year 2025 
to complete the surveys is $4.9 million. Now, until the 
surveying is completed, this portion of the community 
settlement with the United States remains unsolved.
    The community's second request is for bill language 
allowing our 6th graders to attend the Casablanca Community 
School. Now, this school was constructed utilizing the Section 
105(l) Program and opened in 2021. The community constructed a 
K-6th grade school based on Bureau of Indian Education 
documentation at the time that listed the previous school as a 
K-5 school, and with an understanding that the BIA would 
utilize the language in the Interior appropriations bill 
allowing the Secretary to issue a one grade waiver. However, 
during 105(l) lease negotiations, BIE staff at Albuquerque 
determined the school was listed as K-5 in error and 
reclassified it as a K-4th grade school, which limited the 1-
year grade waiver to the 5th grade. Now, at this time, our 6th 
grade classrooms remain empty, and our students must leave the 
school after the 5th grade, which is a critical time in their 
educational attainment and development. In effect, our 6th 
grade students are being punished for the Bureau of Indian 
Education's paperwork error.
    Now, Chairman Simpson, I know you understand this issue 
because you have recognized the need and included the very 
first grade waiver language during your previous tenure as 
chairman. Now, in the following years, the subcommittee has 
recognized and resolved other similar unintended consequences 
of a grade expansion moratorium when doing so would not have a 
significant impact on the Federal budget. Now, Chairman, in 
this case, the anticipated cost to fund the 6th grade school 
operations would be approximately $369,000. We are asking for a 
simple language adjustment that has been included in our 
written testimony to address this issue for the 2025-2026 
school year. We have conferred with Interior and they support 
the language, and this language was also included in the 
President's budget as well
    Chairman, members of the committee, the stakes are really 
high for our students. The school was designed not only to 
provide a top-notch education rooted in our culture at a state-
of-the-art facility, but it serves a high number of also 
special needs students as well. Parents and teachers struggle 
to match those students with the type of program that we offer 
and have repeatedly stated that even one more year at our 
community-run BIE school can make a big difference in our 
students' abilities to learn and thrive in a safe, supportive 
environment.
    Now, this leads to the Community's final request: mandatory 
funding for the Section 105(l) Program. Now, this committee had 
the vision to back the pilot program for the 105(l) 
Construction Program, and it was the Community that partnered 
with you to develop the Construction Leaseback Program as an 
alternative to the piecemeal funding of BIE schools through the 
construction priority list. Now, in 2019, we opened our first 
school utilizing the 105(l) Lease Program, the Gila Crossing 
Community School. Tribes across the country are now entering 
into leases for existing facilities and new facilities that 
carry out self-governance programs, bit as the program grows, 
so does the portion of Federal funding dedicated to the Federal 
lease obligations. We recognize the reality facing the 
subcommittee and its repeated calls for a long-term funding 
solution.
    Now, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, if the program 
continues at the current pace, funding for the Section 105(l) 
Program will continue to prevent this subcommittee from funding 
other critical tribal programs in the areas of healthcare, 
social services, natural resources, law enforcement, and 
education. This committee saw the vision and opportunity that 
the Section 105(l) Program offers tribes across Indian Country. 
We are now asking for the program and staffing costs to be 
transitioned to mandatory funding. Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Lewis follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Ervin, you are up next.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                 DINE BI OLTA SCHOOL BOARD ASSOCIATION


                                WITNESS

ERVIN CHAVEZ, EXECUTIVE BOARD PRESIDENT, DINE BI OLTA SCHOOL BOARD 
    ASSOCIATION
    Mr. Chavez. Chairman Simpson and Ranking Member Pingree, 
thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today about the 
appropriation priorities of the Dine Bi Olta School Board 
Association, DBOSBA. My name is Ervin Chavez, and I am the 
executive board chair for DBOSBA.
    The Navajo Nation established DBOSBA to represent the 
locally-elected school board from the Bureau of Indian 
Education-funded schools located on the Navajo Nation in 
Arizona and New Mexico. Of the 66-member school, 32 are 
operated by the Bureau of Indian Education, and 34 are operated 
by tribally-controlled schools. DBOSBA membership constitutes 
more than one-third of the 183 BIE-funded schools nationwide. 
DBOSBA unites school boards to advocate for educational 
programs and services to ensure that each Navajo student 
graduates with preparation to lead a protective and fulfilling 
life with knowledge and understanding of Navajo language and 
culture.
    ISEP funds are the core accounts for both BIA-operated and 
tribally-controlled schools. Increases in ISEP funds help 
attract and retain quality teachers who are vital to our 
students' academic success. Unfortunately, there are teacher 
shortages all across this country, but the shortage is 
particularly acute on Navajo Nation, where many schools are 
operated in remote locations. New Mexico and Arizona Public 
Schools have responded to the teacher shortage by a substantial 
increase in their salaries.
    The $518 million that the BIA requested for ISEP Fund for 
fiscal year 2025 provides estimated weight unit at $8,033 per 
student. When adding this prorated non-ISEP line item with what 
school receives per student, it is far behind the $25,000 that 
Department of Education spends for students, an estimated 
$14,000 that the public school spends for students. When 
recommending $950 million for fiscal year 2025 ISEP funding 
Tribal Interior Budget Council, we are only simply recommending 
Congress provide parity.
    School Replacement Construction and Facility Improvement. 
The BIE education construction budget significantly impacts the 
health and safety of our students and our staff. Unfortunately, 
many of our schools throughout the BIE funding system are far 
beyond and at the end of their useful life and needs to be 
replaced. Many of these schools are in poor and dangerous 
condition on Navajo Nation.
    The BIE fiscal year 2025 budget justification reports that 
only five of the 2016 school replacement are listed of the 40 
that are still undone. Of the 40 school throughout the capital 
improvement, only 10 are classified as funded. If we take these 
30 unfunded schools identified through the SASI process, an 
estimated $90 million per school, totaling about $2.5 billion 
of unfunded school waiting to be current on the SASI 
replacement alone. If Congress continues to fund school 
construction at $116 million per fiscal year, Congress will 
never catch up. DBOSBA urges to protect an increased 
educational construction fund. We also urge Congress to swiftly 
reauthorize the Great American Outdoors Act, which supplemented 
$95 million a year for 5 years to help address the staggering 
dangerous backlog of BIE-funded school system.
    In conclusion, I would like to turn to the oversight 
matters. Congress has provided clear statutory parameters to 
facilitate Indian control of all issues related to education. 
BIE continues to undermine the local school board authority at 
BIE-operated school by ignoring statutory mandates that require 
consultation with tribal school boards and making hiring and 
budgeting decisions, and provide school boards with approval 
over such decisions. BIA is also subjecting tribally-controlled 
schools to a burdensome requirement not permitted by statute 
and nor agreement by the school. This perpetuates the Federal 
bureaucracy domination of Indian programs. These policies have 
adverse practical effects on BIA that have made it much more 
difficult and much more expensive for Navajo schools to provide 
quality education services in our community. DBOSBA is seeking 
report language to direct BIA to establish a training program 
that ensures BIA officials at all levels to comply with 
statutory framework regarding Indian education.
    Thank you for this opportunity.
    [The statement of Mr. Chavez follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Ervin. Derrick.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                      WHITE MOUNTAIN APACHE TRIBE


                                WITNESS

DERRICK LESLIE, TRIBAL EDUCATION DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR, WHITE MOUNTAIN 
    APACHE TRIBE
    Mr. Leslie. [Speaking native language.] Greetings from the 
White Mountain Apache Tribe from White River, Arizona. My name 
is Derrick Leslie. I am of the red horizontal people born for 
the Mesquite people, and hail from the community of Turkey 
Creek. I come before you today in my role as tribal education 
director and as a member of our tribe's health board. It is my 
hope that this brief testimony provides a glimpse of the 
realities facing my people in the area of Indian education and 
health. As tribal education director, I oversee the adult 
vocational training program, the adult education program, the 
Office of Higher Education, the Johnson O'Malley Program, and 
the vocational rehabilitation programs, respectively.
    We were saddened to see the $1 million cut to the Johnson 
O'Malley Program under the BIE's current fiscal year budget. We 
appreciate the passage of the JOM Modernization Act and are 
excited about the update to the student count. Since JOM 
funding is based on the 1995 student account, we anticipate a 
significant increase to the JOM student account, but are 
worried that current funding levels of the JOM Program are not 
adequate enough to support any increase in the student account. 
We support any budget increase to the JOM Program based on 
input from Indian Country through formal tribal consultations.
    The Bureau of Indian Education has many deficiencies and 
obstructions in its efforts to educate our students. The need 
for school replacement on my reservation is one of our highest 
priorities. The Dishchii'bikoh Community School in Cibecue and 
the John F. Kennedy Day School in Cedar Creek are both in need 
of new schools. They do their best to educate our Apache 
students within the current BIE system. The Cedar Roosevelt 
School in Fort Apache was selected in 2016 for the School 
Replacement Program. While we are elated at this prospect, we 
know that based on current process and appropriations, we will 
not get our new school for several years, especially since the 
education construction line item was cut this current fiscal 
year. To this end, we strongly recommend that the BIE create 
and implement a long-term facilities plan similar to the 
Department of Defense Education process in 2009.
    The BIE recently ended its series of listening sessions 
concerning the Indian Student Equalization Program, ISEP, and 
student transportation funding formulas. We support the 
negotiated rulemaking activities of ISEP and student 
transportation included in the BIE's fiscal year 205 budget 
proposal.
    I also serve on the Tribal Interior Budget Council's 
Education Subcommittee, and in our recent meetings in March of 
2004, the BIE was able to provide us with their $93 million 
estimate to adequately fund school resource officers within 
their school systems. This estimate includes funding for the 
salaries of 412 SROs for their K-12 and higher education 
institutions, both tribally controlled and bureau operated, 
within the BIE school systems. This estimate includes equipment 
and training for all SROs. With gun violence in schools 
increasing across the country, Indian Country cannot wait for 
more assistance to keep our schools and communities safe. 
Therefore, we support the budget request for the BIE to fund 
school resource officers.
    I would be remiss if I did not mention the work of the 
National Advisory Council on Indian Education, or NACIE, which 
was established in 1972. Since its inception, NACIE has 
provided 268 recommendations to improve the state of Indian 
education in its annual congressional report. Sadly, only 20 
percent of these recommendations have been partially 
implemented while zero percent have been fully implemented. 
This is simply unacceptable, and part of the problem is NACIE's 
unfunded congressional mandate. We support the current budget 
request for NACIE and challenge all members of Congress to read 
the annual congressional report and help us improve Indian 
Country by enacting the recommendations.
    In the closing section of my testimony, I will share some 
of our health priorities with our new hospital being among 
them. The current existing Whiteriver Indian Hospital was 
completed in 1979 and is now over 45 years old. It is outdated 
for expansion to meet the mandatory requirements for medical 
informatics infrastructure. My tribe is supportive of the 
building of a new hospital in our community, and last estimates 
project the total cost of construction to be $648 million. We 
ask for your support in appropriating these funds.
    We were recently awarded the Special Diabetes Programs for 
Indians grant, which we were grateful for. This funding was 
reauthorized through December 31 of this current calendar year. 
After seeing increases in funding for this important work in 
our communities, we strongly implore its reauthorization so any 
and all disruptions to this critical work in Indian Country can 
be avoided.
    The White Mountain Apache Tribe appreciates the support of 
this subcommittee as we all work together to make Indian 
Country a better and safer place to work and live. I thank you 
for your time and considerations. [Speaking native language.]
    [The statement of Mr. Leslie follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Buu Nygren.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                             NAVAJO NATION


                                WITNESS

BUU NYGREN, PRESIDENT, NAVAJO NATION
    Mr. Nygren. [Speaking native language.] Chairman Simpson, 
Ranking Member Pingree, and members of the subcommittee, I just 
want to say thank you so much for having me here and our tribal 
leaders today. My name is Dr. Buu Nygren, president of Navajo 
Nation. I am grateful for the opportunity to address you 
regarding the funding needs of Indian Country for fiscal year 
2025.
    The Navajo Nation is arguably the largest Native-American 
tribe in the country. The Navajo Nation makes up one-third of 
the reservation on-reservation population in Indian Country. We 
provide crucial services to more than 400,000 enrolled members. 
Our lands cover more than 27,000 square miles, spans across 
Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah. As tribal leaders, we are 
caretakers of our government. We work to uphold our duties to 
our people, ensuring their health, safety and education and 
overall welfare. However, we recognize that achieving these 
goals requires partnership and support from the Federal 
Government, in particular, in fulfilling its trust and treaty 
commitments to tribal nations.
    First, we ask that the Indian Health Services and Bureau of 
Indian affairs be exempted from automatic budget cuts. The 
chronic underfunding of these programs shows a failure of the 
Federal Government's trust obligations to tribes, putting at 
risk the progress made over the years. Automatic budget cuts 
disproportionately affects Indian Country, endangering vital 
services such as healthcare, public safety, and education. I 
also ask that you approve mandatory funding for these programs 
to provide the stability needed to ensure the continuation of 
crucial services. The success of mandatory funding for the IHS 
highlights the importance of this model, supporting vital 
healthcare services for tribal communities. Expanding mandatory 
funding to BIA programs and services would also provide 
stability and ensure the Federal Government's trust to tribes 
during these times of financial doubt.
    Also, the Navajo Indian Child Welfare Act Program faces 
severe underfunding and restrictions, operating with a $3.4 
million shortfall. Despite limited staff, currently, there are 
400 active cases involving 748 Navajo children, but our small 
team struggles to keep up with the workload. Full funding of 
$46 million would help us protect and reunite Navajo children 
with their families. Additionally, the current funding levels 
for tribal law enforcement, tribal courts, and correctional 
facilities are drastically insufficient to meet the growing 
needs of our communities. We need increased funding for public 
safety and justice initiatives, particularly within the BIA. We 
recommend providing $2.9 billion to the Bureau's public safety 
and justice account, including an increase of $26 million for 
the Navajo Nation.
    The legacy of uranium mining has left a deep scar within 
our people. Despite the Navajo people contributing to America's 
nuclear agenda with 30 million tons, which is half of all 
domestic supply of uranium, came from the Navajo Nation. We 
continue to struggle with death, disease, and contamination. 
The Navajo people are resilient. Since our treaty signing in 
1868, we have worked with the Federal Government to be 
patriotic Americans, offering our language, our resources to 
advance and protect our country. In return, we humbly ask for 
your commitment to honor the contributions we have made and to 
protect generations yet to be born.
    There are over 500 abandoned uranium mine sites on our 
nation. Despite some cleanup efforts, many sites lack federal 
funding, exposing the Navajo people to long-term impacts of 
uranium contamination. Immediate action is required to allocate 
resources for cleanup, monitoring, maintenance of priority 
sites, and to develop a long-term disposal solution in 
collaboration with our Federal agencies. Please set aside $5 
billion to address this issue.
    The Bureau of Reclamation's 2025 budget request proposes 
expanding Indian Water Rights Settlement Completion Fund to 
include current settlements. This proposal will allocate $2.8 
billion over 10 years for settlement and $34 million annually 
for operations, maintenance, and rehabilitation needs. 
Furthermore, thousands of homes lack proper infrastructure for 
sewage disposal, solid waste management, leading to health 
issues, such as stomach disease and high infant death rates. 
Support for the IHS sanitation facilities construction budget 
request of $200 million is critical to address the water crisis 
on the Navajo Reservation and throughout Indian Country.
    In conclusion, I urge the subcommittee to prioritize these 
funding recommendations in the fiscal year 2025 appropriations 
package. By investing in the health, education, infrastructure, 
and economic development of tribal communities, we honor our 
nation-to-Nation relationships to advance justice and equity 
for all of Indian Country. With that, I just want to say thank 
you so much. [Speaking native language.] Thank you so much.
    [The statement of Mr. Nygren follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Ms. Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much. Thank you to all of you 
for your testimony. Nice to see you, President Nygren, again, 
and thank you for sort of laying out the needs of a huge tribe 
with so much land mass and many of the issues that we have been 
talking about already, from mine cleanup and other communities, 
to the law enforcement issues, so I hope we can do more in this 
budget to address the needs that you are bringing up. And, 
Governor Lewis, I think I met with you before on the 6th grade 
issue, and I am sorry to say I didn't realize it was still 
unresolved. And I feel for you having this, you know, beautiful 
facility and kids not being able to attend it, and I am sure 
our committee will try to wrap our heads around the 
bureaucratic issues that are still standing in the way and sort 
that out, and very much appreciate hearing from both of you.
    It hasn't come up as much during the last 2 days, but the 
backlog of school construction is so serious, and I think 
sometimes we let it slip off our conversation, but I know that 
so many communities wait way too long for the schools that are 
much needed in the infrastructure, and thank you for all the 
issues that were brought up before us. I yield back.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Mr. Ellzey.
    Mr. Ellzey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Lewis, I 
don't know who made that clerical error on transposing a ``4'' 
instead of ``5,'', but this is nonsense.
    That we have to have language in appropriations bill for 
somebody, it doesn't really matter who, that we are not agile 
enough with this vast bureaucracy that we pay tens of millions 
of dollars for every year to fix that problem because that is 
on the backs of the 6th graders and on the tribe. So I have a 
hard time with restraining my temper when I hear nonsense like 
this in the 21st century when somebody could have said, the 
director of the BIE, I don't know who, I don't know how this 
bureaucracy works, but somebody should have said, oh, we made a 
mistake, start school. This isn't that hard.
    Mr. Simpson. Yeah.
    Mr. Ellzey. And so that lends to hopelessness when you go, 
well, Congress, fix the problem, please. Oh well, we got to 
have language in there. Well, then why do we have a BIE? So as 
a fighter pilot who is used to launching and executing, this 
should be executable right now. Oh, our mistake, your mistake, 
it doesn't matter. This is the education of these kids. Fix the 
problem. You need $300 grand. Here we go. In this billion-
dollar bureaucracy that we got, here you go. Being new to this 
committee, I am sure the chairman and the former chairman have 
heard these problems, and you guys deal with it every day, and 
you come up here every year, and you talk about these same 
problems--water, water, water; roads, roads, roads, law 
enforcement--and yet the bureaucracy doesn't seem to comply 
with what your needs are.
    As far as the uranium cleanup, that is an absolute atrocity 
that we haven't done that yet. It is a must-do. It is a 
``shall'' from the Federal Government to fix that. It is a 
``shall.'' So I don't really have any questions. I hear these 
things, and I go is it really this hard, and I know that you 
guys come back here every year saying is it really this hard? 
It shouldn't be. It can't be. We have to fix it. I yield back. 
Thank you for your time.
    Mr. Simpson. I appreciate your comments, Congressman 
Ellzey. When you were telling me about this, I am kind of 
going, this is not that hard to fix, and I can't believe that 
it still hasn't been fixed, so it will get fixed. I appreciate 
it. Ms. McCollum.
    Ms. McCollum. Mr. Chair, as we had students from Arizona 
listening, I know that the Bureau of Indian Education is 
listening. I just talked to Ms. Pingree, and everybody can say 
it is complicated. I am going to say, if we are respecting 
sovereignty, you are the governor. The governor in my State can 
have the ability of working with the Minnesota Department of 
Education and school districts to move classes around in 
buildings without asking for the Federal Government's support 
to continue to get the Federal Government dollars. This is 
crazy. And Ms. Pingree and I, with the chair, we worked on the 
Bug School. We worked on her school in Maine. You are the 
success story, Governor, with what you have been able to do. 
And I still haven't been out there to see the school yet, but I 
was looking at the pictures. The kids all looked really happy. 
If we have to write a letter, we will write a letter, but I 
think we kind of said what we wanted to see done, Mr. Chair. 
Let's see if you get a response.
    Mr. Simpson. I think we can make a phone call.
    Ms. McCollum. So I just wanted to thank you all for your 
testimony on education. Many of you were here for the first 
panel. I am a former teacher, so this is very near and dear to 
me. But, Mr. Chair, I started working on cleanup with Tom Udall 
over 20 years ago. Our bureaus that we have here, the EPA, are 
all involved, but energy and water is involved, too. And we sat 
at a table--it might have been in this room back in the day 
when this was black before it became brown--and I never saw so 
much finger pointing in my whole life. And we got a few things 
cleaned up, but sheep die because they drink water because the 
dust is still spreading around. The dust comes into the homes. 
It gets in people's lungs. And they were supposed to have had a 
plan moving forward on this, but it is a plan that is taking 
too long, and I don't know if it is a plan that is even being 
implemented anymore because each administration when it comes 
in kind of changes things around.
    And this committee, in my opinion, works nonpartisanly when 
it comes to Indian issues, and whatever happens with the next 
presidential election, I think we ought to bring the 
administration in early and just lay out our expectations 
because enough of this. We start things and then it stops 
because there is a new director here and a new director there. 
We still haven't gotten the list, I don't think. I missed 
several of the meetings because of the Defense Committee that I 
am ranking member on. For the list of schools and the 
priorities in which they are being replaced and built, have we 
gotten that yet? No, and I worked on that. You worked on it. 
Chellie worked on it. David Joyce worked on it. Ken worked on 
it. Enough. Thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, and thank you all for being here 
today. I appreciate the issues that you brought up, and we will 
work on these. Thank you.
    Mr. Lewis. Mr. Chair, member of the subcommittee as well, 
you have an open invitation to come out to Indian Country, to 
come out to the Gila River Community and see the four 
successful 105(l), two schools, one police station, justice 
facility, and another that is coming up as well, so we are 
wanting to open this up. We are already in the program, and 
thank you, Congresswoman McCollum, for saying that the 105(l) 
works for the community, works for other tribes, and we want to 
make sure that also, as a mandatory funding call, that this is 
available across Indian Country because this works. Thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Next is Panel 16. Thank you all for 
being here today. Tesia, you are first.
                              ----------                              


                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                 NATIONAL INDIAN EDUCATION ASSOCIATION


                                WITNESS

TESIA ZIENTEK, BOARD PRESIDENT, NATIONAL INDIAN EDUCATION ASSOCIATION
    Ms. Zientek. [Speaking native language.] I am Tesia 
Zientek, a member of the Citizen Potawatomi Nation, and I serve 
as the president for the National Indian Education Association. 
Miigwetch for this opportunity to provide testimony today for 
fiscal year 2024 funding for the Department of the Interior, 
Bureau of Indian Education, and the Bureau of Indian Affairs. 
NIEA is one of the oldest and most inclusive native 
organizations, and we were founded to advance comprehensive, 
culture-based educational opportunities for American Indians, 
Alaska Natives, and native Hawaiians.
    Rooted, in treaties between tribal nations and the Federal 
Government, the U.S. Constitution, and decades of legal 
precedent, Congress has a direct fiduciary responsibility for 
high-quality, culturally-grounded education for all native 
children. Nearly 48,000 native students across the country are 
enrolled in schools funded by the Bureau of Indian Education. 
Due to the underfunded, rural, and remote nature of native 
communities, native students often do not have access to high-
quality, culture-based education options that provide 
opportunities to thrive, and, unfortunately, the BIE is 
chronically underfunded, causing irreparable detriment to our 
tribal youth and harming the future economic and cultural 
leaders of our nations.
    The fiscal year 2024 budget for Indian education included 
significant cuts to both Indian education, construction and 
Johnson O'Malley programs while the rest of the Indian 
education and native language accounts were flat funded. This 
represents a failure to fulfill the trust and treaty obligation 
to tribal nations. We urge this committee to ensure that during 
the Federal budgeting process, the education of our native 
children and obligation that is as old as the United States is 
not left on the cutting-room floor.
    The core funding for BIE elementary and secondary schools 
comes from the Indian School Equalization Program. These funds 
cover salaries for teachers and other personnel but are often 
reallocated to cover the program cuts in other areas of 
education. For ISEP, we request $950 million in line with the 
Tribal Interior Budget Council's recommendation to properly 
fund tribal schools, and I also request $109 million for BIE 
facilities operations and $100 million for BIE facilities and 
maintenance.
    BIE schools use operations and maintenance funding to cover 
costs such as electricity, heating fuels, and other operating 
expenses for preventative and routine upkeep. Underfunding of 
maintenance continues to be an issue as a number of buildings 
are in poor condition and cannot maintain proper standards. And 
as mentioned earlier, the BIE education construction funding 
was cut by $33 million in fiscal year 2024, which represents a 
12-percent reduction to one of the most necessary and already 
underfunded accounts within the BIE. NIEA requests $430 million 
for education construction in fiscal year 2025 because better 
school buildings lead to improved conditions for learning, 
academic outcomes, and student achievement.
    There is another route that would truly uphold the Federal 
trust responsibility: providing mandatory appropriations for 
105(l) leases, ensuring a cleaner process for lending access 
for tribally-controlled schools to construct their own 
facilities. For or all of the tribal students who do not attend 
a BIE-funded school, NIEA request $55.2 million for the Johnson 
O'Malley Program to assist with the unique educational needs of 
native students in public schools.
    NIEA and our members were deeply disappointed to find this 
account was cut in fiscal year 2024. JOM programs provide 
critical educational resources for afterschool programs, 
academic support, dropout prevention, funding for college 
access testing, and native cultural and language enrichment. In 
addition, tribal education departments are responsible for 
administering and implementing education priorities of tribal 
nations and should be equal partners with State and Federal 
education entities serving native students. NIEA request $10 
million for tribal education agencies under the Interior 
budget.
    To administer and implement these priorities, tribal 
education departments and agencies are vital. In most cases, 
tribally-controlled schools, tribal education agencies, and 
even BIE-operated schools are the frontline for native language 
revitalization. Furthermore, there is a direct link between 
cultural identity and the cognitive success of native students. 
NIEA request $10 million for language immersion grants for BIE 
schools, alongside $25 million for native language 
revitalization under Interior economic development to provide 
funding for tribally-run native language projects and language 
instruction immersion for students who are not enrolled in BIE 
schools, ensuring students have language and cultural support 
regardless of which type of school they may attend.
    We urge this committee to honor the necessary commitment to 
Indian education, a commitment the United States made even 
before the U.S. Department of Education existed, a commitment 
that was paid for by the loss of life and land experienced in 
our nations. We urge you to support these recommendations. 
Miigwetch. Thank you.
    [The statement of Ms. Zientek follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Shawna.
                              ----------                             


                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                       NAVAJO PREPARATORY SCHOOL


                                WITNESS

SHAWNA ALLISON BECENTI, HEAD OF SCHOOL, NAVAJO PREPARATORY SCHOOL
    Ms. Becenti. [Speaking native language], Chairman Simpson, 
Ranking Member Pingry, and members of the House subcommittee. 
Thank you for the opportunity to submit testimony regarding 
fiscal year 2025 appropriations for Indian Country. My name is 
Shawna Allison Becenti, and I am head of School of Preparatory 
School, Navajo Prep, a proud alumna of the school. [Speaking 
native language.] With me is Sherrick Roanhorse, who is the 
vice president of the Navajo Prep's Board of Trustees as well 
as an alumnus of Navajo Prep. As head of school, my 
responsibility includes advocating for State, Federal and 
tribal funding.
    Navajo Preparatory School is a tribally-controlled school 
and is located in Farmington, New Mexico. As an International 
Baccalaureate World School, Navajo Prep serves 285 students in 
grades 9th through 12th and allows students to compete for a 
competitive international diploma. College education for our 
Navajo youth is an expectation for Navajo parents and our 
Navajo leaders. Navajo Prep's achievements are substantial with 
98 percent of our 2023 graduates being accepted into 4-year 
institutions and a remarkable 73 percent college graduation 
rate within 6 years, significantly surpassing both the national 
and State levels for native students.
    Navajo Prep's success is represented by the alumni of the 
school, who fulfill the mission and vision [Speaking native 
language], meeting leaders now and into the future. Since 
Navajo Prep was founded in 1991, we have graduated 1,262 
alumni. However, the number is higher if we include the 100 
years of education with the Methodist Mission School, Mission 
Academy, and Navajo Academy. Our critical priority is 
sustaining the Dine language and culture to strengthen the 
identity of our students.
    We are in a state of emergency. It has estimated only 51 
percent of Navajo people spoke our Dine language in 2010. By 
2040, it is estimated that less than 5 percent of people will 
speak our language. Schools serving indigenous communities have 
an obligation to address this language loss crisis. Federal 
funding and competitive grants have allowed our school to 
develop innovative solutions to work to address critical 
language loss of 110 chapter communities on the Navajo Nation, 
and to supplement our Indian School Equalization Program, our 
ISEP funds. The process of securing additional supplemental 
funding requires additional staff, time, and resources. Navajo 
Prep commends the subcommittee for its past support of BIE 
funding and respectfully urges to address historical 
underfunding by substantially increasing the fiscal year 2025 
Interior appropriations bill. Please see our written statements 
that outline our funding recommendations. For example, we are 
requesting, as well with NIEA and our other team here, $951.1 
million for ISEP.
    BIE funds 129 tribally-controlled schools across the United 
States. There are many funding constraints for tribally-
controlled schools. Tribally-controlled schools cannot draw on 
local tax base. We primarily rely upon Federal funding, which 
is a Federal and treaty responsibility. Navajo Prep has to be 
creative as well, as all tribally-controlled schools have to be 
creative, to supplement for safety and security, food service 
staffing, technology infrastructure, CTE--college and technical 
Education-- wellness programming, equipment management. It is 
all not included in ISEP calculations. ISEP calculations do not 
allow for pay parity within the individual State. For example, 
thanks to our governor and our legislators, the State of New 
Mexico increased teacher and administrative pay for State-
funded schools, but to remain competitive, Navajo Prep had to 
increase salaries with no increase to ISEP or tribal grant 
support cost funding.
    Tribally-controlled schools' reality is that ISEP funds 
students at roughly $6,900 of the average State pupil per 
funding of 16,000, which is grossly inadequate compared to the 
only other fully-funded Federal education system. The 
Department of Defense Education Agency funds at $25,000 per 
pupil. BIE schools need at least a 50-percent increase in ISEP 
funding to bring BIE to parity with the national average.
    Furthermore, Navajo Prep supports BIE's initiative to 
transition contract support costs and 105 lease payments to 
mandatory funding. The President's fiscal year 2025 proposed 
budget and the BIE's funding requests will continue to result 
in a shortfall in BIE funding. We respectfully urge the 
subcommittee to increase BIE funding.
    We urge you to uphold the Federal trust responsibilities 
for which our ancestors have fought for. I am a granddaughter 
of Chief Manuelito. We are not asking for more funding. We are 
asking for what was promised within our Federal Indian 
treaties. [Speaking native language.]
    [The statement of Ms. Becenti follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Gjermundson.
                              ----------                              


                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                    NAVAJO SCHOOL BOARD, INC. (RNSB)


                                WITNESS

GJERMUNDSON JAKE, NAVAJO SCHOOL BOARD, INC. (RNSB)
    Mr. Jake. [Speaking native language.] Good morning, 
Chairman Simpson. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to 
speak on the appropriations priorities for the Ramah Navajo 
School Board, Incorporated. My name is Gjermundson C. German. I 
am the Ramah Navajo School Board president. I am an enrolled 
member of the Ramah Navajo Band of Navajos. I am also a proud 
product of the Ramah Navajo School Board's Pine Hill Schools, a 
graduate of 2006. I have returned back to my community for the 
children's education and my elders' healthcare as they are both 
my top priority.
    In 1970, RNSB established the Ramah Navajo High School, the 
first Indian community school governed by an all-Indian, 
locally-controlled school board. Our efforts were a model for 
the groundbreaking of 1975 Indian Self-Determination Act, later 
Tribally-Controlled Schools Act of 1988. In 1987, we 
established the healthcare services under the Indian Self-
Determination Act. Currently, the Ramah Navajo community in New 
Mexico and RNSB operates at Pine Hill Schools K-12. These 
schools are funded by BIE and the Tribally-Control Schools Act. 
In this location, we also operate a face program, a Head Start 
Program, as well as a Pine Hill Health Center in our behavioral 
health services and social service programs under the Indian 
Self-Determination Act.
    I would like to begin to express my appreciation to 
Congress for funding our school replacement construction for 
our dilapidated schools. I would also like to express our 
appreciation to Representative Gabe Vasquez for introducing the 
bipartisan legislation to extend the Federal Employee 
Retirement System benefits to the teachers and staff of the 
tribally-controlled schools because it helps recruitment and 
retention of our staff.
    Our most pressing concern stems from the lack of equal 
funding to provide critical healthcare and educational programs 
to our tribal community, inadequate, and uncomfortable, and, 
yes, in our dangerous facilities. To begin with the BIE budget, 
we are seeking at least $950 million for the ISEP formulation 
funds account, the core BIE account for which our school 
operates. When BIE does not request to increase for ISEP, it 
means that we do not have the budget to compete with teachers' 
salaries and benefits being offered by the State of New Mexico 
and also BIA-operated schools. Without equal funding, we 
continue to struggle to attract and retain quality teachers. 
Without quality teachers, we cannot offer our students an 
equality education. We ask that Congress continue to hold BIE 
accountable for ensuring that the amounts requested for 
educational personnel pay parity in the BIE budget are 
sufficient to match the increase provided by the Defense 
Department schools and are calculated and identified for each 
tribal school.
    We also need a parity when it comes to the benefits we can 
offer our teachers and staff. We noted that while tribally-
controlled schools and BIE-operated schools are both part of 
the BIE-funded school system, it is not only the teachers and 
the staff in those BIE schools who are eligible to receive the 
FERS benefits. This inconsistently puts tribally-controlled 
schools like ours in a significant disadvantage and has effects 
of undermining the intent of Congress and the Indian Self-
Determination Act in the tribally-controlled schools.
    Full forward funding for our school facility operations and 
school facilities management is long overdue. Our facilities 
accounts are only 51 percent funded. Because of these two core 
operations accounts are not forward funded, we consistently 
have to move money from our school's forward funding accounts 
to cover our monthly utility bills and ongoing maintenance 
costs. Sometimes we do not receive our facilities funds until 
the end of the school year. Furthermore, significant 
improvements are needed to Maximo, which the facilities 
management software at the Department of Interior uses. The 
Maximo software creates a barrier in reporting deficiencies and 
funding for the projects needed at our school.
    For Indian Health Services, we need a full mandatory 
funding. We support the IHS tribal budget formulation group 
recommendation of $54 million for IHS. Unfortunately, the 
inadequate funding levels that are appropriate in the IHS year 
after year translates that their average per capita spending on 
healthcare several times less than the average per capita 
healthcare spending for the general population. The results 
that the native people are disproportionately affected by 
preventable conditions.
    As related matter, we are seeking additional supplemental 
resources to recover from the effect of COVID, to protect 
against the next pandemic, and address the opioid epidemic. 
Because of the chronic underfunding for public health 
infrastructure, the tribal communities are far less equipped to 
respond to the COVID pandemic, as a result with higher rates of 
disease incidence and mortality than the general public. The 
funding that Congress did appropriate for their response to 
COVID-19 tribal communities was immediately used for good use. 
We are concerned if another pandemic were to occur now that 
these underlying disparities will be changed. We are also ill-
equipped to address a rapid worsening opioid epidemic, a 
national problem with devastating impacts.
    Thank you for the opportunity to raise these pressing 
priorities and explain how the national policies and fundings 
decisions directly impact tribal communities like ours. We 
believe that equal funding for facilities and resources to 
tribal and community schools will have the opportunity to 
strive. We consider Congress to be our partner in this critical 
endeavor. [Speaking native language.] Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Jake follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Anhiwake.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

              AMERICAN INDIAN HIGHER EDUCATION CONSORTIUM


                                WITNESS

ANHIWAKE ROSE, VICE-PRESIDENT OF CONGRESSIONAL AND FEDERAL RELATIONS, 
    AMERICAN INDIAN HIGHER EDUCATION CONSORTIUM
    Ms. Rose. Yes, sir. Thank you. Speaker B: Thank you 
Chairman Simpson, Representative McCollum and members of the 
committee. My name is Anhiwake Rose. I am the incoming 
president and CEO for the American Indian Higher Education 
Consortium, or AHEC. Thank you for the opportunity to testify 
today. Also, as a citizen of Cherokee Nation and a proud 
resident of Oklahoma, I want to congratulate Chairman Cole on 
his committee. We are very excited to continue working with 
him. And I also want to note you just previously mentioned you 
hadn't heard much about education construction, and I note from 
the folks on our panel today, and I know there are several 
other educators in the room, I think you are going to hear a 
lot about that in the next few minutes.
    AHEC represents 35 accredited tribal colleges and 
universities, operating more than 90 campuses and sites in 16 
States, and we are growing. We have three emerging TCUs, one of 
them in California, and they are all working towards 
accreditation. We serve students from over 80 percent of Indian 
Country, from 250 tribal nations, and over 160,000 rural 
residents each year through a wide variety of academic and 
community-based programs. As a vital component of the nation's 
higher education system, tribal colleges welcome all students 
and are proudly part of the Nation's land grant family since 
1994.
    We are concerned, as our fellow panelists have mentioned, 
about the severe cuts to BIE for fiscal year 2024, and we were 
equally disappointed to see the Bureau of Indian Education 
Department budget for 2025 flat funded almost all post-
secondary institutions. To date, the Federal Government has 
never fully funded TCU institutional operations as authorized 
under the Tribally-Controlled Colleges and Universities 
Assistance Act. This chronic underfunding has undermined the 
mission and the impact of our tribal colleges. We are 
disappointed that Interior again ignored the directive of this 
subcommittee by not providing funding for support costs for 
TCUs. . This language was inserted by AHEC from 2020 to 2022 
and has yet been included in the Agency's request. To support 
the Nation's tribal college and university system, AHEC 
requests $160 million under postsecondary programs, forward 
funded. The breakdown for that funding is included in our 
testimony and that it reviews Titles I, II, V, as well as II, 
Haskell, and SIPI.
    I would like to highlight three specific requests within 
our testimony. The first is the congressionally-authorized 
amount of $10,907,000 per Indian student. If we are funded at 
this amount, it will be the first time since the enactment of 
the TCU Act more than 40 years ago. We are also requesting a 
hundred thousand dollars additional for technical assistance, 
which has been level funded for 15 years. As I mentioned 
previously, we have three emerging TCUs and that number 
continues to grow. The technical assistance that is provided 
assists those TCUs as they continue to emerge.
    We are also requesting $35 million to address the 
infrastructure needs of TCUs. The Senate Interior 
Appropriations report requested that BIE develop a consistent 
methodology for determining TCU operation and maintenance 
needs, and we encourage this committee to include similar 
language, and we look forward to the results.
    TCUs are resilient and resourceful and proud to lead the 
Nation in many areas, including preparing a native workforce of 
nurses, land managers, and teachers for tribal-serving schools. 
Half of all native special education teachers in Montana are 
graduates of Salish Kootenai College, and eight tribal 
colleges, two in Montana and two in Minnesota, have early 
education partnerships that enhance the early childhood 
education in their States. TCUs prepare professionals in high-
demand fields, including agriculture, national resource 
management, information technology, and building trades. By 
teaching the job skills most in demand on our lands, TCUs lay 
the foundation for tribal economic growth, which is the only 
way to move tribes and tribal citizens towards self-
sufficiency. TCUs work with local schools to create bridge 
programs for tribal students as early as elementary school, 
encouraging them to stay focused on achievable goals, finish 
high school, and go on to their local TCU. TCUs offer dual 
credit courses for high school students, provide math teachers 
for local high schools, and improve course delivery, and host 
weekend academies and afterschool programs.
    At the other end of the spectrum, we offer GED and HiSET 
training and testing and have 2Plus2 partnerships and bridge 
programs with regional universities. All are solid steps to 
bolster the future prospects of American Indian and Alaska 
Native youth and break the cycle of generational poverty.
    In closing, I want to express AHEC's support for all of our 
education partners, not only at the table, but those that you 
have from and will hear from, and our tribal Nation's testimony 
and budget request. Through this process, you have the 
opportunity to hear directly from Indian Country, not only our 
needs, but our stories, and we hope so much that this provides 
you the ammunition you need as you work towards increasing our 
appropriations across the board. And AHEC stands with you 
firmly to provide any additional support that you need to make 
sure that that funding comes to reality. Thank you.
    [The statement of Ms. Rose follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Ms. McCollum.
    Ms. McCollum. Thanks, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to thank for 
your testimony and pointing out the 6-year graduation rate. And 
sometimes people can hear ``6 years'' and think, ah, they are 
not doing their job, it is not 4. Six is not unusual anymore. 
It is becoming extraordinarily commonplace for first 
generation, for working families who are trying to get their 
students through school, through students who have obligations, 
sometimes an elder or helping out with childcare back home. And 
then you add to it the transportation issues that many of these 
students have to do and the cycle in which classes are offered. 
So 6 years is not all that unusual. Congratulations. They are 
finishing. That is great because some students just kind of 
have to go, not full-time, but three-quarter time or part-time, 
especially returning adults. I think that is fabulous news, and 
I just wanted for the record, for anybody who is out there 
listening, saying, well, 6 years you are average. Good job.
    I wanted to follow up on a conversation that the chair and 
I and the ranking member were present for earlier, and you 
pointed it out, Ms. Rose, about students graduating from tribal 
colleges, staying in the community. So one of the conversations 
that we had, and the school that came up was Morehouse holding 
slots for Native-American students. So we need to do that not 
just in healthcare, but we need to do that in engineering and 
things like that. So HBCUs have been funded well. They are 
still underfunded. This committee has been great. I work on 
them, but when you get the HBCUs, historically black colleges, 
up and running, all of a sudden, research dollars and more 
opportunities and everything become involved. So this is a 
multiplying effect investing in tribal colleges.
    Could you tell me if you have any conversations, either 
with tribes about what to do about creating slots, working with 
people that will do the master's degree or help support classes 
for someone at a tribal college online who is interested in 
engineering? What are we doing that is creative? And I know 
that is going to cost more money, but what are some of the 
ideas that are out there that maybe we should be thinking of? 
We did them pretty successfully with HBCUs with more to do, but 
what are some of the ideas that you have out there and some of 
the things you are hearing from your high school students with 
graduation, like, really opening up their minds for all the 
different kinds of jobs and possibilities, not being limited by 
their geography.
    Ms. Rose. I can jump in to start the conversation, if that 
is okay. I actually want to highlight the CHIPS Act because I 
think the CHIPS Act is a really good place to show where 
partnerships with private business and industry have created 
alliances with our tribal colleges and universities. So we have 
Dine College and Navajo Technical University that are going to 
start working with Intel right in the development of the jobs 
that will be in place, including not only the jobs within the 
building, but the construction jobs as well.
    But I want to highlight that sometimes when we have these 
unique ideas, there are obstacles in the way that we are not 
aware of, and I think IHS is a really good example of this. We 
have a huge amount of nurses that we could begin placing within 
the hospitals, but IHS has a requirement that they will not 
take new nurses. They have to have 1 year of training or 
practice before they can go into the hospitals. We don't have 
any place to send for that 1-year year training program, so 
they have to leave the community, and leaving the community, 
they might lose their home because the home cannot sit empty 
for 1 year as they leave. They might not have transportation to 
get back, and they might not come back to the community after 
that because of our salaries.
    So we are working with IHS right now to identify solutions, 
and we would really appreciate the committee's support because 
we do have creative ideas and opportunities, but we end up 
finding obstacles, such as Gila River's obstacle with their 1-
year year grant program.
    Ms. Becenti. If I may just add, just continued support for 
college and technical education, whether they are CTE programs, 
Carl Perkins grants. I am really thankful State of New Mexico 
has created an innovation grant that mirrors a little bit of a 
College Perkins and has allowed tribally-controlled schools to 
access the funding. A lot of times many of this funding is 
earmarked, too, whether they are to States or public schools, 
and we kind of forget about the 189 BIE-funded schools that 
need additional support to help that career college readiness 
supports.
    At Navajo Prep, we invest a ton in ensuring that our 
students are exposed to all colleges, whether they are the 
tribal colleges, our local colleges, and, of course, just 
applying for the common app and exposure. I know we have a 
great relationship with College Horizons, who is a specific 
organization that helps native students apply for colleges. The 
more that we can, one, fund it, the more creative as 
administrators and schools, we are willing to be creative as 
much as funding we do receive.
    Ms. Zientek. Miigwetch for that question. I happen to work 
for the American Indian Science and Engineering Society, and so 
we know STEM fields are a huge workforce need right now outside 
of Indian Country but also within it, and tribal colleges offer 
an opportunity for students to stay in their community and work 
for their tribal nations or entities within. But at our tribal 
schools, if their construction is not fully funded, if they 
don't have heating and air, they certainly do not have the 
technology to support the fields that are needed for this area. 
We can't teach STEM without that technology, and right now 
students don't even have heating and air because of this lack 
of construction funding. So we would love to see these basic 
pieces be funded so that we could then focus on what the 
century needs for the workforce and for our tribal communities.
    Ms. Jake. Thank you for the question. We at RNSB, we help 
our students by transporting them to a local community college 
about 60 miles out. We do dual credits, so that is how many we 
take them back and forth. We had to purchase vehicles just to 
do that specific task. We have also have our Gifted and 
Talented and Upward Bound, which helps our students also 
advance into college, and that is how we usually try to provide 
as much assistance as we can. We also have reached out to 
various different universities. We have taken them there from 
our school as field trips to go to all these different schools 
to try and get as much introduction to college as we can for 
them, and that is what we have been doing on our part.
    Ms. McCollum. That is great. Thank you Mr. Chair. 
Miigwetch.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Harder.
    [No response.]
    Mr. Simpson. Let me ask you. Do you guys use TRIO programs?
    Ms. McCollum. That is done more in the high schools, isn't 
it?
    Voice. And public. Is that a public school?
    Ms. McCollum. Yeah.
    Ms. Becenti. I am not familiar. I am not familiar.
    Mr. Simpson. It is a program that exists in the Labor-H 
bill. I am the co-chairman of the House TRIO Caucus, and what 
it does is help prepare first-time students to go to college 
while they are in high school, and then help them once they get 
in college. Where I grew up, you went to grade school, to 
junior high school, to high school, to college. You just went 
from one to the other and I never realized there were an awful 
lot of students that never thought about going to college 
because they don't have any relationship with that. Their 
parents didn't go to college. They don't have brothers and 
sisters, nobody in the community. And it has been an amazing 
program in helping students prepare for going to college and 
what they are going to face there, and then deal with it when 
they get there.
    And I know oftentimes it is for minority communities in the 
South. It is used a lot by black students in Idaho. It is 
Hispanic students a lot, and we do have some tribal members 
from the Fort Hall Reservation that are active in it, too. So I 
would encourage you to start looking at that program of how it 
might be able to be helpful. Go ahead.
    Ms. Zientek. Absolutely, and I used to be the tribal 
education director for my tribe, and so I am familiar with TRIO 
as it is used in our public schools, and some of our native 
students do participate in that. And in my experience, the best 
case scenario is when students have access to programs like 
TRIO, but in addition, Johnson O'Malley that is also supporting 
that cultural instruction, and support from their tribal 
education agency, which is providing that specific tribal 
support, too. So TRIO can be a wonderful, wonderful mechanism, 
but those other pieces are important, too, to be able to 
provide that specific cultural and tribal support.
    Ms. McCollum. Mr. Chair, if I just might add, I am glad you 
brought TRIO up. TRIO is primarily I would say, and I will 
check with my tribal nations back home in Minnesota because I 
am going to kind of refer to them in general, but this is what 
I have witnessed in my office and back at home in the district. 
TRIO is used in the public schools where the students are going 
to the public schools in the metropolitan area. I bet when I 
get out to Leach Lake, White Earth, Fond du Lac, Nett Lake, 
they don't have a TRIO coordinator. It is a tribal school in 
most cases. And so I don't think the tribal schools have 
probably reached out to TRIO because it is just another thing 
that the schools have to invest in when we are underinvesting 
so much.
    So I am going to ask our tribal leaders back home about how 
that is used, but I, once again, just think we have got land 
grant institutions that should be doing slots, working where 
there are tribes in there, and a big shout-out to Morehouse, an 
HBCU reaching out, reaching out to another underserved 
population, the first Americans. I have a lot of Morehouse 
constituents, too. [Laughter.]
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you all for your testimony today. We 
will certainly take it into consideration when will try and put 
together a budget, but I appreciate it. Thank you.
    Okay. We have Panel 17: Cecilia Fire Thunder, Troy 
Lunderman, and Ryan Wilson.
    [Pause.]
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                OGLALA LAKOTA NATION EDUCATION COALITION


                                WITNESS

CECILIA FIRE THUNDER, OGLALA LAKOTA NATION EDUCATION ASSOCIATION
    Ms. Fire Thunder. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman 
Simpson, Ranking Member Pingree, and members of the committee, 
and Congresswoman McCollum. My name is Cecilia Fire Thunder. I 
am the president of the Oglala Lakota Nation Education 
Coalition, representing six tribally-controlled schools on the 
Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. I am also the president of one 
of those tribally-controlled schools, Little Wound School. I am 
here to request your support for full funding for Bureau of 
Indian Education-funded schools.
    I am going to be addressing some key issues that are of 
great concern. My written testimony you will have. I want to 
spend this time just focusing on two or three items. In my 
written testimony, we have included graphs to show visually 
what our concerns are. We have been able to go back 20 years to 
take a look at the shortfalls that we have been experiencing 
just to tell the story that this has been an ongoing challenge 
for many of our tribal schools to get the necessary funds and 
resources we need to operate our schools in a good way.
    ISEP. The Indian School Equalization Program are the 
largest single source of Federal dollars for our tribal 
schools. ISEP funds are intended for teacher salaries, 
classroom supplies, textbooks, extracurricular activities, 
field trips, sports, and related programming. However, 
according to the BIE, ISEP does not assess the actual cost of 
school operation. As a result, BIE schools remain severely 
underfunded, especially when compared to other federally-funded 
programs. For example, on the Pine Ridge Reservation, we have 
13 schools. We have four public schools, six 100-297 schools, 
one BIA school, and two parochial Catholic schools. One of the 
things that we see as we are looking and comparing salaries and 
operating monies, there is a discrepancy. The public schools 
are getting the State-funded dollars. On top of that, they get 
Impact aid, and most of the JOM monies go to the public 
schools, and the tribal schools get very little of the JOM 
monies.
    So when we are looking at comparisons, so currently, 
ballpark figure, we are looking at $7,000 WSU per student for 
our tribal schools, and then for Pine Ridge, we are looking at 
$14,000 for the public schools, and so there is, like, a $7,000 
discrepancy. That makes a big difference in what types of 
services we provide. The Department of Defense activity, so 
here again, the Department of Defense is, like, $25,000 per 
student. So across America, we see discrepancies in how schools 
are funded on and off the reservation.
    Over the past 20 years, ISEP has slowly started to decrease 
because it is used to pay for other unfunded programs. Today, 
approximately 40 percent of ISEP funds are used to supplement 
facilities and other underfunded programs. School lunch, school 
construction, all of these are challenges that we face in our 
community. We are in dire need of urgent construction dollars, 
and one of the areas that all of our schools are helping each 
other with is how do we increase the construction funding. We 
have 88 schools on the replacement list, and our ISEP dollars 
are going to pay for additional costs and operation and 
maintenance, primarily because those buildings are so old you 
can't keep them warm. And because they are so old, they are 
constantly needing some kind of upgrade in construction.
    I want to also talk about the School Lunch Program. The 
Bureau of Indian Affairs does not pay for our school lunch. We 
get that out of the United States Department of Agriculture. 
Right now, we are using money out of ISEP to make up for our 
children's food because there is not adequate monies, but 
here's the thing. Out of eight employees in our kitchen, only 
one is paid by USDA, and we have to pick up the additional 
costs. In other words, ladies and gentlemen, I do want to 
support all the testimony that is been given here because we 
are all saying the same thing, and I hope that you are 
listening to us and hear our message.
    In conclusion, I am here. A hundred and fifty-six years 
ago, a treaty was entered into with my people, and I am here to 
uphold the language of that treaty. Thank you.
    [The statement of Ms. Fire Thunder follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Troy.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                       ST. FRANCIS INDIAN SCHOOL


                                WITNESS

TROY LUNDERMAN, HUMAN RESOURCES DIRECTOR, ST. FRANCIS INDIAN SCHOOL
    Mr. Lunderman. Good morning, Chairman Simpson, Ranking 
Member Pingree, and members of the committee, my name is Troy 
Lunderman. I am the human resource director and director of 
development for St. Francis Indian School, located in St. 
Francis, South Dakota on the Rosebud Sioux Reservation. I am 
also a member of the Rosebud Sioux Tribe. I am also a member of 
tribal education. I went to tribally-controlled schools. I have 
gone to public schools. I even spent time as elementary years 
as the Survival School in Minneapolis. That is no longer open. 
I carry postsecondary degrees of a bachelor's and also a CTE 
certificate, so I have gone both sides of the education there. 
So I am here to request your full support for full funding for 
Bureau of Indian Education-funded schools. Considering my 
written testimony that I submitted for the record, I want to 
spend this time focusing on two or three items.
    The first item I would like to address is CTE schools. At 
St. Francis, we are interested in a career in technical 
education programs as alternative education for our youth. 
However, there is currently no Federal funding for a CTE 
program under the BIE, and the only CTE funding for tribes is 
allocated under the Department of Education. Congress 
appropriates only $16 million annually to the Department of 
Education's Perkins Program for any tribal program. We are in 
our first year of initiating our CTE Program, and in the short 
time it has existed, we have seen huge turnarounds in 
attendance where it has been cut in half, and also increases in 
90 percent of the students' GPAs.
    I was a social worker prior to my job at St. Francis, my 
current job, and I have seen students that walked away from the 
school because they don't understand algebra, they understand 
different types of sciences and math, where if CTE was 
available back then, this student, in particular enjoyed being 
a mechanic, different types of math, different types of 
science. That interest would have been there. He probably would 
have succeeded. To this day, to my knowledge, I know that 
student hasn't gone back to finish his high school education. 
We also have seen grades improve significantly in some cases 
moving from F's to some of them have made the honor rolls as 
well on CTE, so it has been huge growth in their GPAs like I 
talked about.
    When we talk about the history of Indian education, we talk 
about boarding school, we talk about Carlisle, but one thing we 
don't talk about is that there was a template of CTE that is 
actually never discussed, and it was the Chickasaw Nation in 
the 1820s with their school locations in Martin--and I might 
tear this name up and I apologize--Tokshish, and it was 
agriculture. And this was before they moved to Oklahoma, so 
still in Mississippi area, that they had agriculture, iron 
works, and things of that nature for their people already. But 
it is the school in Caney Creek that was brought by 
missionaries and had the boarding school where they moved 40 
miles from the nearest Chickasaw resident or town that kind of 
modeled the boarding school era, and that is what gets 
discussed. So I, for one, would like to praise the Chickasaw 
Nation and give them their dew. Their tribe actually started 
the template for what could be considered CTE programs.
    Even in early reports of Carlisle it is documented of 
students being excited in the afternoon programs where it was 
more hands-on classes than your general ed in the morning. 
There no interest there, so a lot of these reports that I have 
read going back that CTE has had a template, has had an impact 
and an interest more than the general ed, and it has continued. 
And I think the numbers that we show that we have testified for 
still show that it is true today as well.
    The other issue I want to talk about, and Cecilia had 
mentioned, is our lack of inadequate ISEP funding, and it 
spills into other programs. And one, we need is school resource 
officers. We have one this year, but Rosewood Indian 
Reservation is in a rural remote area where there is high 
traffic of illegal drugs passing through. St. Francis is in 
close proximity to the Nebraska border. We are actually 11 
miles from the Nebraska border where a lot of trafficking 
passes through the community. SROs are needed, but it is also 
hard to get because our police department is lacking as well. 
So it does feed into your education component as well as 
safety. What we are experiencing in our town is a lot of 
assaults, victimizing done in Nebraska, and these young ladies 
are being brought back to South Dakota side, and then you get 
into jurisdictional issues of State, tribal, and then the State 
of Nebraska. Ultimately, what happens is nothing gets done. 
These women, this becomes a part of their life that they have 
to deal with, and it is very unfair.
    So this year we do have a part-time. They are still 
considered a member of the Rosebud Police Department, so if 
there are any traffic calls in the area, they do have to leave 
their post and go do the traffic. What we have had was our 
numbers have dropped significantly. Last year when we didn't 
have an SRO, we had 406 student incidents, which included a 
wide range of violations, including alcohol, tobacco, weapons, 
violence, disorderly conduct. As of March 15th of this year, we 
have only had 169 student incidences. I also believe that 
number would be lower because when she does have to leave her 
post, that is when a lot of the incidences happen while she is 
off. If we could have one that is funded full time to be at our 
school would be great.
    There is also the impact of, it is just not a police 
presence and intimidation presence or whatnot. She engages the 
students. Our younger kids do feel safe. They tell her they 
feel safe. They tell us that they feel safe knowing that there 
is a cop there, visiting them at recess time, visiting them in 
the hallways. Her presence alone makes it feel safe. She is 
also talking to our older students on decision-making that 
assaults, possessions, and things of that nature as an adult, 
what it can do for your record and what it does, and that stuff 
I don't think gets talked about a lot. And at that age when 
they are considered adults, I mean, we all know that simple 
decisions can change your life, and big difference from being 
16, 17 to you are 18, 19 years old and in the school setting, 
and we don't want to set them up for failure on that.
    But again, our education funds are already severely 
limited, and Congress funds Indian students far less than the 
non-Indian counterparts. Also in it is that we know that law 
enforcement is only funded at 15 percent of the actual needs in 
the cost as well. So ISEP also funds our lunch program, but, 
again, it is just another hand in that cookie jar for our kids 
as well, too.
    So in closing, I would like to say thank you for the time. 
I appreciate you guys having me here and to testify, but the 
other thing, though, is I know the Secretary of Interior last 
week testified on the allocations that are under contract. And 
know that the BIA/BIE was only at 35 percent, and these 
allocations were made in 2020. So if you are looking at BIE and 
looking at schools, you figure that these kids were starting or 
ending 8th grade the year these monies were allocated. They 
would be graduating here in a couple weeks. How much better of 
an experience, how much more ready could they have been had 
more than 34 percent of funds been allocated in the Interior as 
well.
    With that, am I over time?
    Mr. Simpson. I appreciate it. Thank you.
    Mr. Lunderman. Oh, thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Lunderman follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Ryan.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

        OGLALA LAKOTA/NATIONAL ALLIANCE TO SAVE NATIVE LANGUAGES


                                WITNESS

RYAN WILSON, PRESIDENT, OGLALA LAKOTA/NATIONAL ALLIANCE TO SAVE NATIVE 
    LANGUAGES
    Mr. Wilson. Chairman Simpson, thank you again for your 
service here, and Congresswoman McCullum, [Speaking native 
language] to you and the staff as well. It is good to see some 
familiar staff, and some have been around for a number of 
years. It is important to us as well we build that relationship 
with them. I am Ryan Wilson, Oglala Lakota and president of the 
National Alliance to Save Native Languages, and our ask this 
year is $20 million for the Bureau of Indian Affairs' Living 
Languages Program.
    So I am not sure if you guys are familiar with that. It has 
been going on now since 2020 out of economic development, and 
they have almost 19 tribes on there now, but there are dozens 
and dozens of more tribes that want to be a part of that, too, 
so we are trying to up that appropriation. The other one is $5 
million for the Bureau of Indian Education, specifically for 
immersion programming in Bureau schools.
    So I am not here to bash BIE or anything, but they comingle 
language programs with immersion. So an example is they might 
have a fluent speaker. My sister hears a fluent speaker, run a 
couple hundred kids through their classroom in a day in 50-
minute sessions. Nobody is learning any language in those types 
of atmospheres. We would like you guys to kind of tighten up 
the language on that specific just for immersion within the 
schools. So that is the request.
    You will be hearing later from the president of the Native 
American Church of North America, and we are endorsing the $5 
million request for peyote habitat conservation. Why that is 
part of my testimony? This language effort, we have always 
couched it as supporting academic benefits as well, but the 
truth of the matter is there is so much more than that, like 
you were saying, the multiplier effect. So when we get into 
free exercise issues, there is no free exercise of our 
ceremonies and religions in Indian Country without our fluency, 
too.
    And a lot of people say, well, you can't talk about 
religion, you can't talk about your ceremonies because of 
separation of church and state. But this is a legitimate 
exercise of your plenary power over Indian affairs to help out 
some of these opportunities to remove barriers to free 
exercise, and we believe it doesn't violate establishment 
clause, so this language is a key piece of that.
    And in that tradition, as I do every year, I wanted to give 
you another book, and this one is not out of print, so it is 
modern, but this is a wonderful wet plate edition, and these 
are modern tribal people that are still walking to earth here. 
This isn't ancient history. But Secretary Haaland is in this 
book, too, a picture of her, and we want the committee to have 
this.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you.
    Mr. Wilson. I know you are avid reader, but share it with 
everybody, and it will be the easiest book you read. It is 
mostly----
    Mr. Simpson. Mostly pictures. [Laughter.]
    Mr. Wilson. Not that reading is hard for you, but--
[Laughter.]
    Mr. Simpson. Sometimes it is.
    Mr. Wilson. So I appreciate what you guys do so much. It is 
so educational for the members, but for us as well. So I was 
sitting here all day yesterday, and we get a little 
ethnocentric sometimes and just think about our own tribe. And 
some of our tribes have individuals that only think about 
themselves, too, like all communities. To hear what everybody 
is saying is just fascinating to us.
    And so the conversations yesterday about buffalo 
restoration, about salmon restoration, and some people talking 
about food as medicine, Ranking Member Pingree. Medicine is in 
danger everywhere, and this is directly impacting our health as 
well. And for us, if you don't have these medicines, you don't 
have your way of life or your ceremony as well, so this is why 
we are talking about the conservation. And when Ron Allen was 
mentioning co-management and taking over the refuge and things 
of that nature, this is where we need to move also into 
private-public partnerships on conservation to get access to 
sacred sites, to medicines like peyote that are on private 
land.
    And so with that in mind, you have my written testimony, 
but I also wanted to ask chairman unanimous consent that you 
can accept these documents as well. And this is more language 
support from various tribes but also support for conservation 
and what we are trying to do, the various tribes.
    Mr. Simpson. Sure. Without objection.
    [The information follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Wilson. And as I wind down, I am going to read this 
here. This is the 45-year-old American Indian Religious Freedom 
Act. It says, ``Resolved, by the Senate and the House of 
Representatives of the United States of America and Congress 
assembled that, henceforth, it shall be the policy of the 
United States to protect and preserve for American Indians 
their inherent right to freedom to believe, express, and 
exercise the traditional religions of the American Indian.'' It 
is your trust obligation. So you hear about this obligation. It 
is your trust corpus also, and language is a piece of that. So 
when we develop our methodologies of measurable trust 
standards, this is a piece of that as well.
    And so I want to pass this along with you also, and we are 
celebrating the 45 years, and we want you to put in the report 
language a review of the administration's implementation of the 
American Indian Religious Freedom Act. That doesn't cost any 
money. So let's get that in there. I asked that last year. It 
didn't make it in there, but I am back again to ask that we do 
that, especially on this anniversary.
    Thank you for your time, and I really want to thank you as 
well. I know I am over time, but when we started this language 
movement, you weren't here when I mentioned this last year 
because you were doing other meetings, but we had $1.5 million 
that all these tribes and Micro Asia, Polynesia were competing 
for competitive grants. We have come a long ways, 
Congresswoman, and I want to keep that momentum going. I would 
just say that little bit.
    [The statement of Mr. Wilson follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Well, thank you. Thank you all for your 
testimony today. I think preserving native languages is vitally 
important to preserving tribes' history. So I have been out to 
the reservation in Fort Hall and went to some of their 
immersion classes. It is fascinating to sit and listen to. I 
wish I had time to sit there and actually learn something, but 
to watch these young students learning the Bannock language, I 
think that is a vital part of maintaining tribal integrity, so 
I appreciate it. Betty?
    Ms. McCollum. Ms. Pingree is taking another meeting. She 
serves on the Appropriations portion of the Department of Ag, 
and as we said yesterday, tribes are impacted in so many of the 
other appropriation processes. So I know she has great staff 
here, but I am also going to put a bug in her ear that we 
figure out kind of what is going on with the school lunch 
program there. Full disclosure, my son is a linguist, so 
languages are important, and I hear other reasons why they are 
really important, saving languages.
    So we have got the Esther Martinez. We have got Save 
America's Languages. We have another language program. Do we 
need to work with you to harmonize to make sure that rules, 
regulations, funding? You mentioned the thing about the 
immersion schools. Do we need to work with you to get some 
feedback to talk to the Bureau to make sure that the money is 
going in the right lanes for these programs and that there is a 
way for all these lanes to merge to make everything stronger, 
or do you think that it is going okay? I mean, what you said 
about immersion schools.
    Mr. Wilson. Yeah. Department of Education also has a 
program in the Indian Education Act for immersion, but I am 
happy to work with your staff--Rebecca--about that, and we 
could talk about it as well. BIE has that one piece, and then 
the Living Languages is new, and I think they are doing a good 
job. They just need more tribes having an opportunity to do 
that.
    Ms. McCollum. Okay.
    Mr. Wilson. What you are saying is we follow the same 
things. We create the opportunity, and they are all competitive 
grants. And when you say ``harmonized,'' though, for so long we 
were discriminated against because of No Child Left behind and 
State standards, and assessments and a lack of waivers. So that 
is why it was really important to get that immersion piece in 
the Indian Education Act as well. And they go through the same 
thing in the Bureau-funded schools, and that is what needs to 
be harmonized and real tribal control, and we have a lot of 
good ideas for that we would love to work with your staff on.
    Ms. McCollum. And work with the committee staff as well.
    Mr. Wilson. Yes.
    Ms. McCollum. Thank you Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you all for being here today and for 
your testimony. Thank you for the book. I appreciate it very 
much.
    The next panel is Panel 18: Lloyd Miller, Dr. Grussing, and 
Nicholas Lovesee.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Simpson. Lloyd, you are first.
                              ----------                             


                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

            NATIONAL TRIBAL CONTRACT SUPPORT COST COALITION


                                WITNESS

LLOYD MILLER, COUNSEL, NATIONAL TRIBAL CONTRACT SUPPORT COST COALITION
    Mr. Miller. Thank you Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Pingree, 
Congresswoman McCollum. It has been many years since I was 
here. Our testimony has been presented in recent years by 
tribal leaders, Linda Austin last year, Melanie Fourkiller 
before that. With your indulgence, I just want to make note 
that my partner, Harry Sachse passed. He spent 60 years as a 
giant in the field of Federal Indian law, argued successfully 
many Indian law cases to the United States Supreme Court 
because he was in the Solicitor General's office. I offer my 
testimony today in his honor.
    The National Contract Support Coalition was formed in the 
90s to champion contract support cost issues. As the committee 
is well aware, the Indian Self-Determination Act cannot work 
without the tribal overhead costs being reimbursed. The reason 
for that is that without tribal overhead costs being 
reimbursed, tribal overhead has to come out of the program. So 
when the tribe steps into the shoes of the Indian Health 
Service, it ends up with less money than the Indian Health 
Service had, so this is the great equalizer, contract support 
costs. And the same is true for the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
    It took years for us to establish in the courts that the 
Indian Health Service was violating the act as framed by 
Congress. Congress had promised the tribes that these would be 
binding contracts, but the agencies would only come to this 
committee and request partial payment. And it took the Cherokee 
Nation case that I argued in 2005 and our Ramah case in 2012 
before, finally, the agencies agreed that these contracts 
needed to be paid in full for the reimbursement of the overhead 
costs. And this committee did a spectacular job coming up with 
a good solution, an indefinite appropriation account, a 
separate account, but it continues to provide pressure, I know 
on the budget. I am going to address that in a moment.
    But one thing that the Indian Health Service, in 
particular, did not do is it did not acknowledge that when it 
runs a healthcare program, that program is funded partially 
thanks to the appropriations from this committee, but in very 
substantial measure from Medicare and Medicaid receipts, very 
substantially. According to IHS, some of their service units, 
two-thirds, are funded by Medicaid, Medicare, private 
insurance, and only a third funded by this committee.
    So the program a tribe steps in to take over is that 
program, and the tribe takes it over, and it, too, is running a 
program that might be two-thirds funded with those revenues. 
Their overhead is larger. Well, their overhead is as large as 
necessary to run that program, but the Indian Health Service 
for years has said, no, no, no, we will only reimburse one-
third of your overhead because only one-third of your program 
is funded with appropriations. And this is a decision that IHS 
made after the Supreme Court decided the Ramah case in 2012. 
IHS had a series of work group meetings, and in 2016, they 
issued a new manual, and they noted in the manual there was 
this area of disagreement, and they resolved that disagreement 
against the tribes.
    That same year, a court in New Mexico ruled that their 
approach to this issue was wrong. Blame me. I understand 
recently, IHS has been blaming me because that was another case 
that I litigated. That case in 2016, that issue in that case in 
2016 became the case that I argued last month, March 25, the 
San Carlos Apache Tribe case. And if the Supreme Court resolves 
that case this month or next month against the Indian Health 
Service, there is going to be a reckoning of the remainder of 
the contract support costs that needs to be paid.
    I watched with interest the testimony by the director of 
IHS, and she committed to having a tribal consultation process 
and an aggressive process should the decision go that way. That 
is important because the Agency has not been fully disclosing, 
has not been candid with the courts about how much this is 
going to cost. The Agency has tried to scare the Court into 
ruling against the tribes by saying that there will be a $2 
billion bill to pay. I think the Agency is confusing judgments 
that may be awarded against the Agency, which don't come out 
from this committee's appropriation. It comes from the judgment 
fund.
    Ms. McCollum. We hope.
    Mr. Miller. Well, it always has. It always has. The Agency 
reported that just shy of $1 billion has been paid over the 
years in damages to tribes for underpayment of contract support 
costs, and those go back into the 90s and certainly throughout 
the 2000s. None of that was covered by this committee. But we 
do need some honesty. The Supreme Court asked, one of the 
justices asked, are you serious about the $2 billion? Are you 
just limiting your estimates to services to Indians? Well, no, 
we haven't. Well, what is the right number? Well, we don't 
know. So one of our recommendations from us is to recommend 
that the General Accountability Office facilitate this 
estimating process so that this committee has solid numbers.
    I remember, and both of you were on the committee at the 
time, of course, that the numbers jumped up and down massively 
after the Ramah case. At that time they said we need a billion 
dollars. Well, they didn't need a billion. They needed about 
$800 million, $700 and change, and then they were too low, and 
then they were too high again. So there is something wrong in 
the estimating, and I think the General Accountability Office 
would bring some discipline to the process.
    But most importantly on that issue, we need a mandatory 
appropriation. With your permission, I would like to make it 
part of the record. It should have been attached to my 
testimony, but the attachment was missing when the email came 
in. It went out and came into your office. So that is language 
modeled on the Children's Health Insurance Program, which is 
statutory language to make the provision mandatory and get it 
out of your table and into somebody else's table.
    [The information follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Miller. So long as the contract support cost remains 
with this committee, which is surely going to be the case in 
fiscal year 2025, there is bill language that is inconsistent 
between the BIA and the IHS. And we also attached last year, I 
want to provide it to the committee again this year, language 
that would reconcile the two provisions. The Indian Health 
Service, you surely notice that they are seeking additional 
language that would permit a takeaway of $10 million for 
administering the contract support cost account. They usually 
do that out of direct operations, but now they want an 
additional $10 million. And I think one of the reasons that is 
driving this request, although they don't explain it, is the 
language that the committee has included in the past.
    The language the committee has included says that once 
contract support costs payments are made to a tribe, they have 
to be used for contract support costs only, and if there is an 
underpayment, the Agency owes more. If there is an overpayment, 
the tribe can transfer that to the next year and can still be 
used on contract support costs. But that means that the Agency 
has to undertake an auditing process each year, only they can't 
do the auditing process because you have to have a tribal 
audit, and the year is upon you.
    So this fiscal year will end on September 30. October 1, 
they have to know what the answer to this question is--how much 
did you not spend--but they don't know themselves because their 
audit has to be done. It won't be done until next June or July 
or August at best. And then they need to get a new indirect 
cost rate, and the indirect cost rate that they had that was 
provisional has to be finalized. The numbers have to be 
cranked. This can take 2 years. It can take 3 years. IHS has 
taken up to 6 years to finalize these numbers, and this 
explains why they have such a contract monitoring bureaucracy.
    This is not what the BIA does. The BIA signs the contract 
with the tribe, pays the a hundred thousand dollars, whatever 
it is to the tribe, case closed, let's move on to the next 
year. If it was too little and it is significantly too little, 
the tribe is always free to file a claim. If it is too much, 
the tribe uses that money to carry out the contract. They have 
to use it under the contract, so they provide additional 
services. The BIA system is much simpler, doesn't require $10 
million to administer, and if the committee changed the 
structure of that language, the IHS would not have a need for 
$10 million.
    There continue to be extraordinary payment delays by the 
BIA. Some tribes have even asked that the committee do 
something I am sure the committee would want to do, which is to 
establish a statutory penalty on any BIA employee who fails to 
make a timely payment to the tribe. I mention it only because 
it reflects the gravity of the problem. There really is 
tremendous impatience with that.
    The other issues I addressed in the testimony, and I have 
already taken too much time. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
    [The statement of Mr. Miller follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Lloyd. I appreciate it. Dr. 
Grussing.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

 NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF TRIBAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICERS (NATHPO)


                                WITNESS

VALERIE J. GRUSSING, PH.D., NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF TRIBAL HISTORIC 
    PRESERVATION OFFICERS (NATHPO)
    Ms. Grussing. Thank you for this opportunity. Chair 
Simpson, Ranking Member Pingree, and Congresswoman McCollum and 
members of the subcommittee, I appreciate this opportunity to 
present our testimony. The National Association of Tribal 
Historic Preservation Officers--that is NATHPO--recommendation 
for fiscal year 2025 appropriations. My name is Valerie 
Grussing. I am the organization's executive director.
    Tribal historic preservation officers, also known as THPOs 
or TPOs, and our partners, the State historic preservation 
officers, are the backbone of our Nation's efforts to preserve 
and protect the places and resources that tell the story of our 
country. THPOs are officials designated by federally-recognized 
tribal governments to protect culturally important places that 
perpetuate native identity, resilience, and cultural endurance. 
THPOs' work is grounded in tribal sovereignty, traditional 
knowledge and cultural values.
    I strongly encourage the committee to provide $34 million 
for the tribal line item portion of the historic preservation 
fund for fiscal year 2025. The tribal line item in the HPF is 
the sole source of dedicated Federal funding for THPOs. The 
current $23 million for the tribal line item is the same amount 
as was allocated in fiscal year 2023. Providing THPOs with this 
same amount that they received in the past fiscal year is not 
level funding for them because of both an increase in the THPO 
workload and the number of THPOs. Laws such as the Inflation 
Reduction Act and Bipartisan Infrastructure Law have led to a 
significant increase in the number of Federal projects on which 
THPOs are required to consult. While the burden on THPOs 
increases, the annual amount that they receive declines because 
each year, approximately 10 more tribal nations successfully go 
through the process to establish a THPO office.
    While the funding for the tribal line item stayed at $23 
million from fiscal year 2023 to 2024, over the year, the 
number of THPOs increased from 211 to 222, and that number is 
going to continue to go up by that amount each year. The 
combination of no increase in funding while the number of THPOs 
increased has resulted in the average amount of funding that 
each THPO receives declining from $108,000 to $104,000. That is 
about one whole staff member, and that is an increase from 
fiscal year 2022 where it was about 77,000. So they have just 
gotten used to having one whole staff member, and we can't go 
back from that. They wear many hats, so that is not meeting the 
trust responsibility.
    There is great value in the Federal projects that Congress 
has created in recent years, and the establishment of THPOs by 
tribal nations is an act of sovereignty, which must be 
encouraged, but these actions need to be accompanied by an 
increase in funding for THPOs. A failure to increase THPO 
funding results in unnecessary delays for important projects 
and the potential damage or destruction of tribal nations' 
cultural resources and sacred places.
    I have spoken a lot about budgets and statistics, but as I 
just suggested and as committee members know, the implications 
of a failure to fund THPOs is about much more than the bottom 
line on a balance sheet. Chair Simpson, you are well aware of 
this based on your coordination with THPOs on efforts to remove 
dams along the lower Snake River. The salmon whose numbers have 
declined because of those dams are an important cultural 
resource for tribal nations in Idaho and other States in the 
Pacific Northwest. Similarly, Ranking Member Pingree, THPOs in 
Maine have been involved in efforts to restore the Penobscot 
River and the Atlantic salmon and sturgeon. Tribal nations have 
depended on these fish and the rivers that sustained them since 
time immemorial. And, Congresswoman McCollum, I know that you 
know all too well about the invaluable work that THPOs and 
Minnesota perform as well, including language revitalization.
    As important as the restoration of culturally-important 
places and the preservation of species that are central to 
tribal nations' stories is, the work that THPOs do is 
fundamentally about much more than that. At its core, THPOs' 
work is about addressing the epidemics in Indian country that 
are the symptoms of historical trauma of people systematically 
cut off from their families, languages, practices, and, 
ultimately, lands. Everything comes from the land, right, 
including language, and then all of our identity and framework 
comes from language, as you know.
    Reconnecting native peoples to their cultural heritage, 
traditions, and places has the power to help heal deep 
generational wounds. Treating the cause, that is the work that 
THPOs do, and to continue this work in Indian Country, it is 
essential that THPO programs receive increased funding to meet 
the increasing need. Besides the consultation work that they do 
to protect and preserve tribal nations' cultural resources and 
sacred places, many THPOs also engage in the repatriation of 
ancestors and important belongings. I strongly urge the 
committee to provide $12.4 million for NAGPRA. That is the 
Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, which, 
like THPO funding, is part of the Park Service budget. The need 
for this work has far outstripped the funding levels that have 
been provided in recent years, and the new changes to the 
regulations place even more of that burden on tribes, which is 
a good thing. It is all going in the direction of exerting 
sovereignty, but that has to come with increased funding.
    Thank you for considering NATHPO's testimony and, more 
importantly, thank you for your commitment to supporting tribal 
nations' efforts to protect the places and cultural resources 
that tell their nations' stories and allow them to heal and 
flourish. I would be happy to answer any questions you have.
    [The statement of Ms. Grussing follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Valerie. Nicholas.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

          NATIVE AMERICAN FINANCE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION (NAFOA)


                                WITNESS

NICHOLAS LOVESEE, DIRECTOR OF POLICY, NATIVE AMERICAN FINANCE OFFICERS 
    ASSOCIATION (NAFOA)
    Mr. Lovesee. Thank you so much. Before I get started, I 
just want to echo the importance of the contract support cases. 
NAFOA has filed an amicus brief on the San Carlos Apache case, 
and this is something that is really important going forward.
    Chairman Simpson, Ranking Member Pingree, Congresswoman 
McCollum, and members of the House Appropriations Subcommittee 
on Interior, Environment, and Related Agencies, thank you so 
much for the opportunity to speak with you this afternoon. My 
name is Nicholas Lovesee. I am the director of policy for the 
Native American Finance Officers Association, and today I am 
here to advocate for important changes to tribal programs 
within the Department of Interior, as well as broader 
recommendations for the administration's handling of tribal 
initiatives. NAFOA represents over 160 tribes located around 
the United States, from Alaska to Florida, Idaho, Minnesota, 
Nevada, Texas, all around.
    We are currently in an important transitional time for 
Indian Country and for Federal funding in general. With the 
country moving on from COVID, we are transitioning from a 
period of incredibly high Federal spending back to more normal 
levels. In addition to battling the global pandemic, 
legislation such as CARES and the ARPA helped address some 
previously unfunded and, in some cases, entirely left behind 
mandates. This unprecedented spending has been a boon for many 
tribes, but now we need to make sure that as the spending 
recedes, it doesn't turn into a burden.
    First, we request that a number of programs currently 
funded under the discretionary classification be changed to 
mandatory funding. Maybe the easiest, the least helpful request 
I could ever make is to simply ask to return to a normal 
appropriation/funding cycle. I don't need to tell anyone here 
that the consistent continuing resolutions and shutdowns have 
had a major negative impact on the way tribes operate on a 
number of different issues. Reclassifying programs would help 
tribes with financial planning and make budget forecasting far 
more accurate, something that is very important to business 
development for tribes. One example would be the contract 
support costs and payment for tribal releases. Both this year 
and last year's President budgets have called for the 
reclassification of these programs, and Senate Report 1883 has 
outlined why it is important to do so
    To address other problems, funding needs to be made 
available and authorizing changes need to be attached that 
ensure that all tribal programs, grants, loan opportunities, 
and more have across-the-board technical assistance to help 
answer the questions that the tribes and tribal entities have. 
In September of last year, NAFOA testified before the House 
Natural Resources Subcommittee on Indian and Insular Affairs, 
stating another major issue is the lack of technical assistance 
that the IRS and Treasury can offer to tribes, and major 
authorizing changes need to be made so that they can answer the 
questions that tribes actually have. I just came back from the 
NAFOA conference a couple of weeks ago, and one of the issues 
we hear over and over again since COVID has been about applying 
and accessing different programs. The feeling in Indian Country 
is that there are many wonderful funding sources available, but 
it feels almost like there is a glass wall in front of them, 
and they are hard to access.
    One of the great examples of Federal assistance and 
outreach is the Office of Tribal and Native Affairs--OTNA--at 
the Department of Treasury. They currently have a budget of $2 
million and employe eight staff, and they have had a real 
outsized impact on how they have been able to help tribes 
answer their questions and reach out. However, it is not a 
permanent authority and relies now on continuing appropriations 
each year to be funded. So if that can be moved into the 
permanent, that would be really helpful across the board.
    Next, there needs to be a strong investment in tribal 
business and economic development programs. At the Department 
of Interior, the Indian Loan Guarantee Program is another 
example of a successful program that needs more support. The 
amount of the loans have increased dramatically over the past 
few years, and since the program constantly reaches its maximum 
lending authority, this dramatically then reduces the number of 
loans that can be offered. The ILGP has been a major economic 
benefit for tribes of all sizes across the board and helped 
establish credit, which, in turn, fuels even more growth and 
creates new opportunities that would otherwise not be 
available. Additionally, the program does not currently 
interact with the new market tax credit. This is an unnecessary 
limitation on the good work the ILGP can do and is currently 
doing, and frankly, it is about kind of leveling the playing 
field. It is not about tribes having more. It is about leveling 
the playing field.
    Lastly, it is another example of the inconsistent funding 
and continuing resolutions. Temporary CRs only fund part of the 
ILGP lending authority. This creates a situation where banks 
either don't make a loan due to only post-availability of 
funds, or they have to assume the risk, just hoping that there 
is going to be a CR for the rest of the year.
    We have a number of specific programs that we support 
increases for in the written testimony. Thank you very much, 
and if there is any questions, I remain available.
    [The statement of Mr. Lovesee follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you very much. Ms. Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. I am sorry to have missed much of your 
testimony, but I appreciate very much you being here today. 
Thank you so much.
    Mr. Simpson. Ms. McCollum.
    Ms. McCollum. I think we are going to have to go to school 
on Medicaid and Medicare because that is mostly in the tax 
preview, but you were talking about having the GAO look at it. 
I am kind of wondering why the Bureau has to pay for 
administrative costs under Medicaid and Medicare. Shouldn't 
they be paying or taking the burden off the tribe for doing it? 
There are dollars that go into that. That is mandatory. We all 
pay into it. I am not an attorney, but I could see where the 
Bureau would say, no, we take care of our portion, Medicaid and 
Medicare for their payment. For any administration, they should 
take care of theirs. Could you tell me briefly----
    Mr. Miller. Yeah.
    Ms. McCollum [continuing]. Without confusing me too much 
because I am going to have to read the GAO report when it comes 
out, why that doesn't work, or did Medicaid or Medicare refuse 
to do it?
    Mr. Miller. No, it is not that at all, and it is not the 
Bureau. It is the Indian Health Service, of course. I suppose 
your question is Indian Health Service versus CMS, which 
manages the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services.
    Ms. McCollum. Which is mandated, and it is their funds that 
are being used for the patient.
    Mr. Miller. Right. So the reason is, is this. It is only 
because of the Indian Healthcare Improvement Act that the funds 
that Medicare and Medicaid pays to the provider, the doctor, 
the hospital, it is only because of the Indian Healthcare 
Improvement Act, not general law, that that money is then 
recycled and spent to provide care to Indian people. If a 
doctor provides care to a Medicaid patient, the doctor receives 
the funds. That goes into the doctor's income. The doctor can 
use that money for a child's scholarship. He doesn't have to 
use the money he receives from Medicaid after serving the 
patient to do anything. But the Indian Healthcare Improvement 
Act imposes this additional obligation on Indian tribes or the 
Indian Health Service. So as a result of that, the Indian 
Health Service, their direct operations line item supports all 
of the services that they provide with that Medicare and 
Medicaid spending.
    Ms. McCollum. Well, in my opinion, being present when some 
of the stuff happened, that is an unintended consequence, 
totally unintended consequence. And so I personally think that 
we should go back and get that fixed so Medicaid and Medicare 
take care of it because there are so many other needs in Indian 
Country that would take this out because I don't see it being 
made mandatory. So I look forward to the GAO report and then 
figuring out how to fix it. Thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, and thank you all for your 
testimony. I appreciate it very much. Very interesting.
    Mr. Miller. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Simpson. Next panel, Panel 19, and we are only about 15 
minutes behind, so that is not bad. Aurene Martin, Chief 
William Smith, Todd Wilson, and Jon Bradley.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Simpson. Aurene, you are up first.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

  BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR THE NATIONAL INDIAN CHILD WELFARE ASSOCIATION


                                WITNESS

AURENE MARTIN, TREASURER, BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR THE NATIONAL INDIAN 
    CHILD WELFARE ASSOCIATION
    Ms. Martin. Good morning everyone. Good morning, everyone. 
My name is Aurene Martin, and I am a member of the Bad River 
Band of Ojibwe from Wisconsin--Go Pack--and I am also a member 
of the National Indian Child Welfare Association board of 
directors. NICWA is a national American Indian/Alaska Native 
organization with over 25 years' experience in policy 
development related to Indian children and families. Our 
mission is twofold. One, we strive to support compliance with 
Indian Child Welfare Act, and we also address issues of child 
abuse and neglect through training, research policy and 
community development.
    Before I get started with my comments, I want to thank the 
committee for their support of child welfare and social service 
programs over the last few years, particularly. You have kept 
that funding on an upward trajectory, which hasn't always been 
the case, and so we truly appreciate that.
    At NICWA, we know and studies have shown the surest way to 
reduce the flow of native children into child welfare systems 
is to ensure that tribes have full capacity to protect their 
children and families, whether they are at home or in foster 
care, yet tribal child welfare programs remain seriously 
underfunded. Every year I come here and I make kind of the same 
three recommendations to you, and you have helped build up some 
of that funding, but they are always the same three programs. 
First, we recommend that Indian Child Protection and Family 
Violence Prevention Act programs be fully funded at $50 
million, and that sounds like a lot, but that is the only 
Federal direct funding for child abuse prevention and treatment 
that would go directly to tribes that is authorized by the 
Federal Government. At a minimum, we saw that this year, the 
administration is recommending $7 million for those programs. 
We support that request.
    The other two programs that we always recommend full 
funding for are the ICWA On-Reservation Program child welfare 
services, and to have those fully funded at $30 million, and 
funding for off-reservation ICWA programs to be fully funded at 
$5 million. These funds are really designed to provide funding 
to tribes so that they can provide essential child welfare 
services, but the current funding amount is about $17 million, 
which means that even though almost every tribe receives this 
funding, more than two-thirds of tribes only receive about 
$30,000, which is not even enough to fund a position, and I 
actually worked in a tribal welfare program. That doesn't even 
begin to cover it, right?
    The ICWA Off-Reservation Program provides the same services 
as the On-Reservation Program, but in an urban setting. And 
these services are extremely important because nearly 70 
percent of Native-American population lives in an urban area, 
and those numbers continue to rise, so the $1 million that is 
there now is just woefully inadequate. We are grateful because 
actually there was no funding for this until 2020, and you 
funded it at $1 million, but we are asking for the full $5 
million for that. And I always come here with dry statistics 
and numbers for you, but I wanted to share a really positive 
story about a tribe who has taken some of these smaller funding 
amounts and cobbled them together into a successful program.
    One of the tribes we work with is Port Gamble S'Klallam 
Tribe in Washington State, and in 2012, they made a decision 
just to change the way things are working, take control of 
their own destiny. And so they entered into a direct program 
grant with HHS for Title IV-E Program for foster care, 
guardianship, and adoption assistance. They also changed the 
culture on the reservation the way they looked at services. 
They changed the messaging in the community to say that every 
family can use some support, and they destigmatized the seeking 
of support by families. They focused their tribal programs to 
provide family support for personal visits, for caregivers, to 
ask questions about raising children, they started group events 
that help caregivers meet and connect with other caregivers, 
and they created networks to help build a support system among 
caregivers.
    These supports are available for grandparents, relative 
caregivers, and foster parents. The tribe also integrated child 
welfare services with many other tribal programs, including 
TANF, early learning, and adult and elder care, so that there 
was a seamless experience for families. The changes were 
extremely successful. In 2012, there were 60 child foster care 
cases at the tribe. In 2023, that number was down to six. The 
successes of this approach show how tribes on the ground can 
design their own programs and be successful.
    So in conclusion, I just want to thank you for the time 
today, and I would be happy to hear any questions you have.
    [The statement of Ms. Martin follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Todd.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

            NATIONAL COUNCIL OF URBAN INDIAN HEALTH (NCUIH)


                                WITNESS

TODD WILSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL COUNCIL OF URBAN INDIAN 
    HEALTH (NCUIH)
    Mr. Wilson. Yes. Good morning. My name is Todd Wilson. I am 
an enrolled member of the Crow Nation in Southeastern Montana. 
I am also a board member of the National Council of Urban 
Indian Health. It is a national representative of the 41 Urban 
Indian organizations that contract with Indian Health Service 
under the Indian Healthcare Improvement Act. I am also the 
executive director of Helena Indian Alliance, Leo Pocha 
Memorial Clinic in Helena, Montana. We serve about 2,000 
American Indian/Alaska Native patients, including about 24 
visits from your State, Idaho, Mr. Simpson. I want to thank 
you, Chairman Simpson, Ranking Member Pingree, and 
Congresswoman McCollum for your time and attention, as well as 
the other committee members that weren't able to make it.
    We have several requests written in our testimony, so I 
will take this opportunity to illustrate why overall increases 
have been beneficial to native communities and the importance 
of protecting the Indian Health Service through advanced 
appropriations and also protection from cuts. We fully support 
the Tribal Budget Formulation Work Group request for the Indian 
House Service at $53.85 billion for Indian Health Service and 
$965.3 million for Urban Indian Health. We must continue 
advanced appropriations while we work toward mandatory funding.
    This committee understands the Federal Government's trust 
obligation to provide healthcare to our native people no matter 
where they live. Our clinics provide essential healthcare 
services to patients from over 500 tribes and assist the U.S. 
Government in fulfilling its trust obligation and 
responsibility to the native people living in urban areas. Our 
board of directors and we are to ensure that the healthcare 
providers that we have are run by native people for the native 
people.
    As you are well aware, while we are working tirelessly to 
provide high-quality care, decades of underfunding has 
contributed to significant health disparities in Indian 
Country. Although our providers are great stewards of the funds 
they can access, it is not enough to care for the communities 
in the ways we deserve. We are grateful for the committee's 
protected IHS funding from the cuts, and funding must be 
increased to keep up with inflation.
    As you know, as we do, level funding in this current 
climate is essentially like a budget cut. Our clinics have used 
these increases in the previous years to recruit better talent 
and retain providers, which is more critical than ever during 
the national healthcare workforce shortage. One of our clinics 
reported that funding helped them increase services to hard-to-
reach areas in their county, resulting in decreased suicides. 
We had a clinic in California who purchased Narcan with the 
funding to increase opioid awareness to prevent needless 
deaths. In Montana at Hill Indian Ranch, we have a medication-
assisted clinic providing behavioral health services that have 
been invaluable to address the tragic effects of the opioid 
crisis.
    Unfortunately, limited funding has reduced our ability to 
address this crisis fully. The effects of inadequate funding 
are not limited to behavioral health, but affects all aspects 
of care. While we are working to provide for the needs of 
tribal citizens as best we can, we simply need more funding. 
Urban Indian organizations and Indian healthcare providers 
across the country face similar constraints, which is why it is 
essential that the committee do all you can to bolster IHS.
    We ask that you continue to protect IHS from sequestration 
or budget cuts, and ask that our programs, which are already 
underfunded, cannot take any more funding restrictions and 
reductions without severe consequences. Our clinics reported 
that any cuts would translate into tribal citizens lacking 
access to care, and UIOs would have limited resources to 
providing insulin for diabetics, counseling for survivors of 
violence, and oral surgery.
    Another way to protect IHS is to make sure we have stable 
funding by maintaining advanced appropriations. Advanced 
appropriations have transformed how we operate care. Before we 
would wait 2 to 3, 4 times. We would get our funding in limited 
increments through the CRs while we wait for the budget and the 
final spending package. With advanced appropriations, we are 
able to get that all in one shot, and we are able to plan for 
the year.
    In conclusion, I would like to thank you for this 
opportunity to testify. I would like to reiterate the requests 
are to essentially ensure that all native people have access to 
lifesaving healthcare. We stand by as a resource to support the 
Federal Government as you continue to work towards the 
obligations to maintain and improve the healthcare of American 
Indian and Alaska Natives. And we urge Congress to take this 
obligation seriously and provide the urban Indian organizations 
and IHS with all the resources necessary to protect the lives 
of the entirety of the native population. Thank you.
    I would like to leave you with these priorities from 
National Council of Urban Indian Health as well. Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Wilson follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Todd. Chief Smith.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                      NATIONAL INDIAN HEALTH BOARD


                                WITNESS

WILLIAM F. SMITH, NATIONAL INDIAN HEALTH BOARD
    Mr. Smith. First of all [Speaking native language.] Hello. 
Chairman Simpson, and Ranking Member Pingree, and the 
distinguished members of the subcommittee, on behalf of the 
National Indian Health Board and the 574 sovereign tribal 
nations we serve, [Speaking native language]. Thank you for the 
opportunity to provide testimony on the President's fiscal year 
2025 budget request for the Indian Health Service. My name is 
William Smith, i.e., Chief Bill, of the Eyak people of Alaska. 
I serve as a chairman and the Alaska area representative for 
the National Indian Health Board.
    The Indian Health Service budget has little room for 
further growth as it currently exists. The Indian Self-
Determination and Education Assistance Acts require IHS to 
compensate tribes for contract support costs and Section 105 
leases, which means that these payments are legally mandated. 
Congress provides such funds as they may be necessary to meet 
these obligations but continue to keep them in the 
discretionary budget. When increases are given to the Indian 
Health Service, the majority of these new funds goes to these 
two accounts, leaving other programs in the Indian Health 
Service budget flat funded. To realize this, that means that 
the Indian Health's budget is shrinking.
    Congress intended for a contract support cost and the 
105(l) lease payments to be mandatory when ISCA was first 
passed in 1975. The Supreme Court upheld these payments as 
mandatory obligations. This committee's own report has cited 
this issue for nearly a decade and called on a solution, 
including reclassification of these accounts as mandatory. The 
Indian Health Services also included this solution in their 
budget.
    In the fiscal year 2024, 105(l) leases increased by 34 
percent, and the contract support costs increased by 8-and-a-
half percent, but the total increase over the Indian Health 
Service was less than one-tenth of 1 percent. For the first 
time, the Indian Health Service received budget cuts from 
services and facilities to fund the contract support costs and 
the 105(l) leases.
    Growth. The Court is expected to soon rule on Becerra v. 
San Carlos Apache Tribes and the Northern Arapahoe Tribes, 
which could increase the obligations for contract support costs 
in the coming years. Under the current budget, it is not clear 
where these funds will come from for 2025. The Appropriations 
Committee, we have worked under the Fiscal Responsible Act 
budget cap, which will provide only 1 percent more funding for 
fiscal year 2024 for their entire Federal budget. That is not 
even keeping up with inflation.
    Congress also reclassifies this account to simply come to 
an agreement on how to score them for the Budget Committee, 
Congressional Budget Office, and the Office of Management and 
Budget as officially scorekeepers. The time to move these costs 
to mandatory is now. The United States has trust 
responsibilities across all its healthcare agencies but does 
not currently meet those commitments in most of the HHS 
divisions. Congress must provide these funds, but it will need 
to come much sooner than Congress anticipates with continuous 
pressure on the Indian health budget, from contract support 
cost and the 105(l) leases.
    In conclusion, there is limited future for the Indian 
Health if Congress does not move these contract support cost 
and Section 105(l) leases payments to mandatory appropriations. 
This subcommittee can break the cycle of inadequacy. We thank 
you for the opportunity to provide this testimony, and like I 
said, we are here to help remove the roadblocks. It was spoken 
earlier about Medicare, Medicaid, and Indian Health Service, 
and I was at one of these committee meetings. And they asked 
me, Chief Bill, do you really believe two Federal agencies can 
work together, and I said yes, because it is proven fact 
between the Indian Health Service and the VA. As you can tell, 
I am a Vietnam vet, and I stand up for my veterans, and I stand 
up for Indian Health Service.
    So when I talk to Roselyn Tso, the head of the Indian 
Health Service, and talked to Denis, who is the head of the VA, 
I tell them it is time to get together and tear down our towers 
to work together, and that is what we need, especially with our 
languages and our cultures and everything else. We need to 
figure ways to remove these barriers, and here as a chairman of 
the National Health Board, I am here to work with you guys to 
make sure that we can do this, and if there is a roadblock that 
we can remove, if we can help, we will be there.
    [The statement of Mr. Smith follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. I appreciate your optimism. We have been 
trying to work with the Department of Defense and VA for years, 
and sometimes it is hard to get them to work together because 
they all have their own way of doing things but I appreciate 
your optimism.
    Mr. Smith. Well, creating the MOU and watching it today, 
and seeing the teeth of it by being the reimbursement 
agreements, by being able to make sure that, like you said, 
Medicare paying their fair share in the deal, it makes it all 
go further because Alaska Natives and American Indians stand up 
for this country more than any other ethnic group. And when we 
say you need to work together, that is where it is coming from. 
It is coming from my heart, it is coming from the deal, and I 
will stand up and tell him that, and you can do it.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                NATIVE AMERICAN CHURCH OF NORTH AMERICA


                                WITNESS

JON BRADY, PRESIDENT, NATIVE AMERICAN CHURCH OF NORTH AMERICA
    Mr. Brady. Hello, my name is Jon Brady. I just want to say 
thank you, Chairman Simpson, and Ranking Member Pingree here, 
and the subcommittee. I am very happy and thankful here today 
on behalf of these past few days that you all got to bear 
witness our concerns as native tribes. I know we could go on 
and on, but nevertheless, I am here on behalf of our Mandan, 
Hidatsa, Arikara people, and our Native American Church of 
North America. I am currently the president, and am here, 
again, round two here. Hopefully things go in our favor here 
this time round. But nevertheless here, our way of life is in 
jeopardy as a silent crisis. Our holy medicine, we call it 
[Speaking native language.], and science calls it peyote. 
Botanists call it [Speaking native language.] So that is how 
wonderful our medicine is. It has so many names. So here we are 
advocating.
    We are requesting $5 million and a conservation initiative 
demonstration project. The Department of Interior will house 
that. They will establish a committee, and all this medicine 
where it grows, it is only in four counties. It is a slow 
growing cacti in Texas, and it is 8 to 10 years it is ready to 
harvest. It is something you can't just plant in the spring and 
harvest in the fall, and this is our way of life. It has been 
carbon dated 10,000 years, this good, wonderful medicine.
    It has done a lot for us, and we have so much support. 
Since 1978, the American Indian Religious Freedom Act come 
around to help us as native people to exercise our way of life, 
our prayer, our song, our dance. And then along the way in 
1994, we thought we was constitutionally protected under that, 
and there was a case back in the 90s. So 1994, there was a 
peyote amendment specifically stating it is federally 
protected, and we are today.
    But it is not protected where it grows in a natural habitat 
and it is all private land, so not only fund it, but meaningful 
consultation that will help us for our futures, our generation. 
And I am speaking on behalf of over 350,000 Native-American 
church members from the North to the West, to the East, to the 
South, to each corner of our Nation here. So this is something 
all new to us. We are trying to draw attention to ourselves. It 
is a real humble, sincere way of life.
    And with that being said, this AIRFA, 1978 will be 45 
years, and the 1994 amendments, it is going to be 30 years old. 
And then we have peyoteros in the Texas where they are licensed 
through DEA, where all our membership, they go down there and 
they harvest this medicine. We have a lot of support from 
National Congress of American Indians. We have about three 
resolutions of supporting our efforts. We have Hobbs and 
Strauss. We have a lot of tribes that are supporting our 
efforts because they always tell us that your tribe support it. 
Yes, they do.
    So with that being said, we have Rocky Mountain Tribal 
Leaders Council supporting our efforts, United Tribes of North 
Dakota. We have the United Nations of Oklahoma and Great Plains 
and Tribal Chairmans Association. So along the way, we are just 
trying to shine light on the promises that was made in this 
AIRFA. It has been like a law that is just been sitting there 
collecting dust, and we are trying to make it come alive again, 
and we want our relatives to know, our elders to know that it 
is going to be okay, it is going to be all right because life 
is tough as it is.
    Through all the natural laws that was instilled in all of 
us, no doubt, every one of these individuals, these chairmen, 
the council people, in the morning, they wake up, they made a 
prayer. They made a prayer maybe through tobacco or corn pollen 
or whatever it may be. We still uphold to our teachings and our 
ways and our customs, and it is sad to say that we are still 
having to educate. We are still having to express how we feel.
    Our way of life, like as we speak, mainstream interests are 
trying to get in there and make our holy medicine synthetic, 
make it pill form, make it pharmaceutical. They are using our 
veterans again saying it is going to be helpful to them, PTSD, 
all these kind of things, but we all know this medicine that 
has a good spirit. When the doctors, this Western education, 
these big-time doctors give up on our relatives. What is the 
thing they depend on is prayer and this good holy medicine. 
People on stage 4 cancer, people that couldn't walk, couldn't 
see, paralyzed, they go home, make arrangements, through the 
power of prayer and this good, wonderful medicine, it helped. 
It cured our relatives.
    So here we are today that we are spiritually disciplined. 
We are here advocating for a way of life, not only our Native 
American Church. We have 574 tribes, have unique ways and 
beliefs and customs that they have. So here we are coming here 
once again, sharing our concerns and doing all that we need to 
do. So along the way, we have our testimony here and 
everything, the logistics of what we are asking here.
    And on the religion, we all know when we kind of say that 
around here, it is kind of really sensitive. If you could just 
open up your heart and open up your mind and see about our 
needs. The government is not endorsing a religion. Instead, it 
is protecting the free exercise of a religion by creating a 
protective law. So when AIRFA was amendment in 1994, Congress 
defined the protection of the peyote under the First Amendment. 
By the mere act of creating protections, Congress exempt the 
application of the establishment clause. The U.S. Government 
did not endorse a religion. Instead, it protected under the 
First Amendment.
    So I am just here to re-express that, shine light on that, 
and also our sovereignty where this AIRFA, where that was 
mentioned in there. So we are shining light on our sovereignty 
and our ceremonial way of life.
    Mr. Simpson. Well, we appreciate you coming and doing that.
    Mr. Brady. Yep.
    Mr. Simpson. Thanks for all your testimony today. Ms. 
Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. Yeah, thank you all for your 
testimony. I really appreciate it, the emphasis on Indian 
Health and sort of your perspective to the bigger picture, not 
just tribe by tribe. So obviously we have some big issues to 
deal with on the costs and the mandatory funding and the child 
welfare. We have heard about that from a few tribes, but I 
really do appreciate the work you bring to sort of the national 
picture, and I thought it was very helpful to hear about the 
specifics when a tribe has enough funds to sort of get creative 
with their programs, how much they can do and how great their 
success can be, so I hope we can support more of that. And I 
will have to learn more about the specifics around peyote. It 
is not something I am that familiar with, and I will get up to 
speed, but thank you for being with us today.
    Mr. Brady. Also, I have this for Congressional Record for 
more documentation.
    Mr. Simpson. Great.
    Mr. Brady. We have got a lot of our resolutions from 
tribes, so.
    [The statement of Mr. Brady follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Ms. McCollum.
    Ms. McCollum. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for the 
specific. We talked about Tiwahe and some of that that is doing 
that, it is giving creativity to tribes and that. So all these 
court cases, that is good, but then we have to honor the court 
cases as well as the treaties. So thank you for pointing that 
out, and maybe we can have peace in the valley here between the 
agencies. We try.
    Mr. Smith. What we got to do is work together, and we can 
remove barriers or find out where the barriers are.
    Mr. Simpson. We have been saying that about Congress for 
years. I appreciate all your testimony, and we will certainly 
take it into consideration as we are trying to draft this bill 
today. Thank you.
    Mr. Brady. [Speaking native language.] Thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. Our last panel this morning is Verlon Jose, 
William Mirabal, and Lionel Haskie.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Simpson. Okay, Verlon, you are up first.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                         TOHONO O'ODHAM NATION


                                WITNESS

VERLON JOSE, CHAIRMAN, TOHONO O'ODHAM NATION
    Mr. Jose. [Speaking native language.] Verlon Jose. Good 
morning, Chairman Simpson, Ranking Member Pingree, and 
distinguished members of the subcommittee. I am Verlon Jose, 
chairman of the Tohono O'odham Nation. The Nation appreciates 
the opportunity to testify today and your commitment to provide 
critically-needed funding for Indian Country.
    First, respectfully, I ask prioritized funding for our 
roads. The Nation's roads are in very poor condition and making 
them dangerous for our members. Tribal and Federal law 
enforcement and emergency vehicles, monsoon flooding, 
completely washes out reservation roads, stranding and 
endangering members. Despite the State of the Nation's and 
other tribal roads, the Bureau of Indian Affairs Road 
Maintenance Program continues to face a huge backlog and is 
chronically underfunded. More funding is needed for fiscal year 
2025. In addition, many of our roads are used and damaged by 
Customs and Border Protection. We are grateful that since 
fiscal year 2018 appropriations legislation has authorized CBP 
to transfer funding from the Bureau of Indian Affairs to repair 
some of the Nation's roads. Continued funding is critical for 
the safety of our members as well as Federal and tribal law 
enforcement.
    Next, I want to underscore our need for water settlement 
funding. The Nation was one of the first tribes to enter into a 
federally-approved water rights settlement and is in 
negotiations to settle its remaining claims. Separately, the 
Nation also holds a water entitlement for the northern portion 
of our reservation, which we have never been able to use 
because of unexploded ordnance left in this area from World War 
II by the Federal Government. Unfortunately, our existing water 
settlement has never been fully implemented because of the 
chronic underfunding and Agency's lack of funds for cleanup of 
the unexploded ordnance.
    Funding is also needed to address the unique public safety 
and law enforcement challenges relating to our 62 shared border 
with Mexico. The Nation works closely with CBP and other law 
enforcement agencies to secure the border, but Federal 
financial support is extremely limited. Every year, the Nation 
spends more than $3 million on its own money to help meet the 
United States' border security responsibilities. The Nation's 
police department is housed in a converted 1950s-era BIA jail, 
which is inadequate to handle current law enforcement 
responsibilities.
    The Nation's detention center is also in poor condition. In 
April of 2023, an Interior Office of Inspector General Report 
highlighted immediate health and safety concerns at the 
facility which have yet to be addressed. Congress should 
incrementally increase funding for tribal law enforcement and 
corrections over the next 5 years to begin to address what BIA 
estimates is more than $3 billion in unmet needs.
    Greater Federal investment is also needed to address our 
failing Indian Health Service facilities. The current IHS 
maintenance and alteration and repair backlog is $1 billion. 
The Nation's 50-year-old hospital in South Arizona is one of 
the oldest IHS facilities and has been on the IHS facilities 
construction priority list for over 30 years. Due to its age 
and lack of modern equipment, the Sells hospital is unable to 
serve the broad range of healthcare needs of the Nation's 
citizens. Although we finally have received some additional 
funding for a replacement hospital, additional funding will be 
needed before it is complete.
    Finally, more funding for Bureau of Indian Education 
facilities construction is critical. In its latest facilities 
report, BIA lists 2 out of 5 of the Nation's BIE funded schools 
as being in poor condition. One of those, the Santa Rosa Ranch 
School, was forced to close in 2018 due to significant safety 
issues and still has not been replaced with a permanent 
facility. Poor conditions at BIE schools put native students at 
a significant unfair educational disadvantage. The Nation urges 
Congress to provide additional funding for critically-needed 
BIE facilities constructions.
    Thank you for your time today. I am happy to answer any 
questions.
    [The statement of Mr. Jose follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you very much. Lawrence, you are next.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                 THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN ARTS


                                WITNESS

LAWRENCE MIRABAL, VICE PRESIDENT OF OPERATIONS, THE INSTITUTE OF 
    AMERICAN INDIAN ARTS
    Mr. Mirabal. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the 
committee. My name is Lawrence Mirabal, and I am the vice 
president of operations at the Institute of American Indian 
Arts. I am grateful for the opportunity to present testimony on 
behalf of the college today.
    The narrative of IAIA is a testament to resilience, 
inspiration, and achievement over more than 6 decades. Our 
mission is to empower creativity and leadership in indigenous 
arts and cultures through higher education, lifelong learning, 
and community engagement. IAIA is the birthplace of 
contemporary native art and holds a unique position as 1 of 
only 3 colleges in the United States chartered by Congress.
    At AIAI, meaningful dialogue occurs, skills are honed, and 
creativity flourishes. World-class educational experiences 
happen inside our studio and classroom walls. Outstanding 
students, faculty, and staff gather to advance student success. 
The college embraces its rich history while actively working to 
shape the future. IAIA offers bachelor's programs in studio 
arts, cinematic arts and technology, creative writing, museum 
studies, indigenous liberal studies and performing arts, as 
well as graduate degrees in creative writing, studio arts, and 
cultural administration. The college is accredited by the 
Higher Learning Commission and serves over 850 students, 
representing 38 States and 94 tribes from across North America, 
over 80 percent of which are Pell eligible. IAIA is reshaping 
the narrative surrounding higher education within indigenous 
communities and is laying the groundwork for making a college 
degree achievable for first-generation students.
    The entire college community is deeply grateful for your 
consistent and robust support. IAIA has a history marked by 
substantial growth and resilience. This subcommittee remains a 
steadfast collaborator in advancing the college's mission and 
promoting higher education in indigenous communities. The 
college's 2025 budget request includes a modest increase of 
$500,000 from the amount enacted for fiscal year 2024. Funding 
at the requested level will support IAIA in effectively 
addressing several key priorities.
    In its commitment to attract and retain exceptionally 
skilled faculty and staff, IAIA recognizes the ongoing 
challenges within the labor market. As these challenges 
persist, it has become essential for the college to secure the 
necessary resources to remain competitive. This includes 
ensuring appropriate compensation for faculty through a well-
defined rank-and-step schedule, and providing staff with a 
modest cost-of-living adjustment. The resources sought in the 
fiscal year 2025 budget are vital to these efforts. 
Additionally, IAIA remains challenged by the persistent impacts 
of inflation on operation. Costs related to materials, 
essential contract services, and utilities continue to grow 
exponentially. Continued support in this area will be necessary 
to sustain operations at their current levels.
    The college is constantly working to identify opportunities 
for enhancing learning outcomes. The College Bridge Program at 
IAIA has demonstrated remarkable success in equipping incoming 
freshmen for college life, and our One-Up Program for English 
and math developmental students has shown impressive outcomes. 
Both programs have demonstrated their effectiveness in 
preparing students for higher education by establishing 
college-level study habits early on and offering opportunities 
to connect with other motivated learners. Securing funding for 
these initiatives in fiscal year 2025 budget will be essential 
to continue this work.
    IAIA prioritizes student success, placing it at the 
forefront of its mission. This commitment is evident in the 
numerous accomplished authors, studio artists, curators, and 
filmmakers who have proudly walked across our commencement 
stage with a diploma in hand, many of whom are using the power 
of their degrees to improve their families' lives and uplift 
their home communities. The subcommittee plays a pivotal role 
as a partner in sustaining this success. To advance this 
important work, we respectfully seek the subcommittee's support 
for the college's funding request of $13,982,000 in the 
independent agency's title of your bill.
    On behalf of IAIA students, faculty, and staff, we extend 
our sincere gratitude for your thoughtful consideration. I also 
would like to extend an invitation to all members of this 
committee to come visit our campus in Santa Fe and see the 
impact that your support has had firsthand. Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Mirabal follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Lawrence. Lionel, you are next.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                 NAVAJO AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS INDUSTRY


                                WITNESS

LIONEL HASKIE, DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS, NAVAJO AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS 
    INDUSTRY
    Mr. Haskie. Good afternoon, Chairman Simpson, Ranking 
Member Pingree, and members of the subcommittee. Good 
afternoon. My name is Lionel Haskie, and I am the director of 
operations, 638, and public relations, government relations at 
the Navajo Agricultural Products Industry. We are located in 
Farmington, New Mexico, and it is a big farm. On behalf of the 
Navajo agricultural products industry--we refer to that as 
NAPI--thank you for allowing us to testify to the subcommittee 
today. My testimony will focus on the critical needs for 
increased funding for the infrastructure and farm development, 
as well as repairs and maintenance at the Navajo Indian 
Irrigation Project.
    The Navajo Indian Irrigation Project is located off the San 
Juan River in the Upper Colorado River Basin. At NAPI, we are 
the operators and managers of a corporate farm for the Navajo 
Nation. We were created as an enterprise to operate and develop 
the Navajo Indian Irrigation Project. NAPI runs a successful 
farming operation on the Upper Colorado River. We support the 
food production for the larger part of the Southwest. The food 
production that we grow on the farm goes toward the beef, the 
pork, and the poultry, the dairy industries of New Mexico and 
Arizona. You will find trucks loaded with our alfalfa driving 
the interstate freeways and the highways out there. The Navajo 
Indian Irrigation Project has about a thousand direct jobs that 
range from farming production to engineering, construction, 
automations, you name it. It is a very 21st century farm layout 
and benefits the area significantly.
    NAPI's efforts are, unfortunately, hindered by the Federal 
Government's failure to meet requirements under the Public Law 
87-483 and to provide necessary funding for NIIP--Navajo Indian 
Irrigation Project--operations and maintenance expenses that 
are obligated by the Public Law 93-638. Public Law 87-483 is 
the law that was signed in 1962 to develop 110,630 acres of 
irrigable farms in the Farmington area. The farm was given 
diversion rights of a 508,000-acre foot of water off the San 
Juan River. We use about 200,000-acre foot of water at the 
moment because the project is partially completed. It is about 
70 percent built, and there are infrastructures that are put in 
place currently that are not yet being utilized.
    Our ask today is very simple. We want the Federal 
Government to meet its legal and trust obligations to fund the 
following: $25.5 million in funding for the Natural Resources 
Management Irrigation Operations and Maintenance Program for 
fiscal year 2025. The NIPS operations and maintenance costs 
currently for the calendar year is $8.7 million out of that 
amount. The second would be $35 million request for the WIIN 
Act, Public Law 114-322, Title III, Subtitle B, Irrigation 
Rehabilitation and Renovation for Indian Tribal Governments and 
their Economies Program. This funding will assure that we fix 
the broken system. The system is about 40-plus years old. It 
has 6 miles of siphon repairs that we would like to do, about 
300 miles of pipeline and rehabilitations of various pumping 
modernization of various pumping plants to make the system more 
efficient.
    And lastly, $30 million for irrigation construction to 
continue to build our Block 9. That is about 10,000 acres. 
About 5,000 acres of that is already partially constructed. The 
construction annual allocations are a little too low at $3.4 
million currently. We would like to raise that to $12 million, 
and that would be coming out of the $30 million for irrigation 
construction funding. That is part of the Resources Management 
Construction Fund.
    Because the Federal Government has yet to meet these 
obligations, the Navajo Nation is unable to reap the benefits 
under this law, and the Navajo Farm has continued to be 
hindered, thereby not being able to supply the food production 
for the Southwest.
    Again, thank you for allowing me to testify today. I am 
happy to answer any questions on this funding. Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Haskie follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Lawrence. Chellie.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much. Thank you for the 
concerns that you brought up, many of them that we have heard 
earlier related to things like challenges with roads, but you 
have some unique issues that you are dealing with with that 
border and the unexploded ordnance. So I hope we can help in 
some ways some of the things that you are dealing with that are 
unique to your tribe and your reservation. And thank you very 
much. I am not familiar with the farming operation, and it was 
interesting to hear about that, so I will read up about that a 
little bit more, but like so many places, water is the 
hindrance and a water settlement that is incomplete that the 
government agreed to seems to be part of your issue, so I hope 
we can deal more with that. It is nice to see the production 
that you are already doing that is available to the tribe, but 
obviously there should be so much more, so I hope we can help.
    And I am not sure I was aware before, maybe I have just 
learned this and I forgot about it, that there was a Indian 
arts tribal college, but it sounds wonderful, and I am glad 
that we do have such a facility that is promoting the 
incredible talent of Indian youth. I was pleased to see this 
year at the Biennale in Vienna--I mean, in Venice, sorry--there 
is a Indian artist who is featured at the United States 
Pavilion, so that is one of the first times I think that a 
Native American has been featured as the artist, so that is 
nice to see, but we should be seeing so much more of that and 
should be supporting the education of tribal youth. So I will 
have to follow up on that, but thank you so much, all of you 
for your testimony today. I yield back.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you all for being here. Just out of 
curiosity, the Navajo trucks that I see driving around in the 
West, are they owned by the Navajo Nation, I didn't know that, 
or whether they were just the name of the company.
    Mr. Haskie. Are owned by Navajo truckers.
    Mr. Simpson. Okay.
    Mr. Haskie. They don't necessarily belong to the same 
logistical company, but they are all independent truckers, and 
they move our products from Farmington to Flagstaff.
    Mr. Simpson. Okay. Okay. Interesting. I have been wanting 
to make it down to the Art Institute for about, I don't know, 8 
or 9 years. Obviously haven't made it yet, but I want to get 
down there. I guess you just got to kind of set your mind you 
are going to do it and do it, so I will try to make it down 
there.
    Thank you all for your testimony today. We look forward to 
working with you as we try to put this budget together and 
stuff. Thanks for the information.
    Mr. Haskie. Thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. The committee will stand adjourned.
    Voice. Mm-hmm.

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

   AMERICAN INDIAN AND ALASKA NATIVE PUBLIC WITNESS DAY 2--AFTERNOON 
                                SESSION

                                WITNESS

MICHAEL DOUGLAS, VP/CHIEF LEGAL OFFICER, SOUTHEAST ALASKA REGIONAL 
    HEALTH CORPORATION, AND INTERTRIBAL HEALTH CARE
    Mr. Simpson. The committee will come to order.
    Good afternoon. Welcome to the final session of our public 
witness hearing for American Indians and Alaska Native 
programs. I also want to welcome all the distinguished tribal 
elders and leaders here today and to thank our witnesses for 
appearing before the committee and sharing your concerns on 
these important topics.
    I will call each panel of witnesses to the table one panel 
at a time. Each witness will have 5 minutes to present 
testimony. Your full written testimony will be included in the 
record, so please don't feel pressured to cover everything in 
just 5 minutes. We will be using the timer to track the 
progress of each witness. When the light turns orange, the 
witness will have 1 minute remaining to conclude his or her 
remarks. When the light turns red, I will have to ask the 
witness to stop to remain on schedule. We will hear from every 
witness on each panel before members will be provided an 
opportunity to ask questions. Because we have a full afternoon 
ahead, I request that we try to keep things moving so that we 
can stay on schedule and respect each other's time.
    I also want to note that the committee rules prohibit the 
use of outside cameras and audio equipment during these 
hearings. The hearing can be viewed in its entirety on the 
committee's website, and an official hearing transcript will be 
available at GOP.gov. I am now happy to yield to Ranking Member 
Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. I am happy just to add my welcome 
to the chair's, and thank you all. I know it takes a lot of 
time to get to Washington, and it is a big trip for a lot of 
people coming from all over the country, so we really 
appreciate your time. We learn a lot from these hearings, and 
it really helps quite a bit in putting together the 2025 
appropriations bill. So thank you very much for your presence, 
and I look forward to your testimony.
    Mr. Simpson. I don't have to call the first panel because 
they are already at the table. Michael, you are first.
    Mr. Douglas. Thank you. Chairman Simpson, Ranking Member 
Pingree, members of the committee, my name is Michael Douglas. 
I am a Haida tribal member enrolled with the Central Council of 
Tlingit & Haide Indian Tribes of Alaska. I am also the senior 
vice president and chief legal officer for the Southeast Alaska 
Regional Health Consortium. Thank you for the opportunity today 
to provide testimony regarding the fiscal year 2025 
appropriations proposal for the Indian Health Service.
    By way of background, Southeast Alaska Regional Health 
Consortium is a Alaska Native-run nonprofit tribal organization 
comprised of 15 federally-recognized Alaska native tribes. 
These tribes have authorized SEARCHC compact with the Indian 
Health Service on their behalf to administer a comprehensive 
healthcare delivery system for the Tlingit, Haida, Tsimshian, 
and other native people of Southeast Alaska.
    SEARCHC was founded in 1975 and is one of the oldest and 
largest native-run healthcare organizations in the country. 
Today our service area covers 42,000 square miles of the 
Southeast Alaska Panhandle and is comprised of 27 community 
clinics, with most of the rural communities we serve requiring 
access via boat or plane. SEARCHC also operates two long-term 
care facilities and the Wrangle Medical Center in Wrangle, 
Alaska and Mount Edgecomb Medical Center in Sitka, Alaska, both 
of which are critical access hospitals.
    The Mount Edgecomb Medical Center in Sitka is our primary 
hospital and is critical to our ability to provide quality care 
throughout the region. For that reason, among SEARCHC's top 
priorities has long been to address the aging condition of this 
facility so that it might be suitable to provide healthcare at 
a level required for a modern healthcare system. This facility 
was first constructed in World War II and through the 1950s 
served as a tuberculosis sanatorium. So today at more than 80 
years old, the current facility is not able to support the 
quality or quantity of healthcare that our patients require 
either now or in the future. And as SEARCHC has often testified 
to Congress and to this subcommittee, the Mount Edgecomb 
Medical Center has long been in dire need of replacement.
    Fortunately, in 2021, SEARCHC and the Indian Health Service 
entered into a joint venture construction program agreement to 
replace this facility. Under the JV Program, tribes and tribal 
organizations may enter into joint venture projects with the 
IHS through which the tribal organization funds either the 
construction or the acquisition of a new facility, and, in 
turn, the IHS, once the construction is complete, commits to 
fund the additional staffing and operations costs associated 
with the new facility. Working together with the IHS and 
through the Joint Venture Program and Congress through critical 
land transfer legislation for this campus, SEARCHC has now 
financed a plan for design and begun construction for this new 
facility which is a 234,000-square foot hospital and medical 
facility we anticipate will be complete in 2025.
    The administration's fiscal year 2025 budget includes 
$47.75 million for the staffing operations cost package for 
this new facility. The staffing operations package is a 
critical near final step in what has been a multiyear effort 
that required deep coordination between SEARCHC, the Federal 
executive and legislative branches, tribal governments, and the 
State of Alaska, and the result will be a state-of-the-art 
healthcare facility for the people of our region. SEARCHC is 
very excited to complete this new hospital project because we 
will immediately improve patient care and demonstrate to our 
patients that SEARCHC remains committed to delivering the 
highest possible care to this region for generations to come. 
It will provide much-needed employment throughout the region 
and will help us address the perennial challenges of physician 
recruitment and retention, and the enhancement of a broad array 
of clinical and support services will also further our 
extension of high-quality care to our remote village-based 
clinic sites as well.
    SEARCHC urges the committee to support the administration's 
request for staffing and operating costs for the newly-
constructed healthcare facilities, including requested funding 
for managed medical center. SEARCHC would also like to express 
our continued appreciation for providing advanced 
appropriations for the Indian Health Service and urges the 
committee to do so again in fiscal year 2025 and for every year 
until mandatory funding for the Indian Health Service can be 
secured. It is critical, however, that the advanced 
appropriations funding levels account for the cost of medical 
inflation and population growth in tribal communities because 
in the current environment of flat funding, nominal increases 
could result in a decrease in access to care.
    SEARCHC appreciates the committee's hard work in upholding 
the United States obligations to Alaska Natives and American 
Indians. With your steadfast support, tribal healthcare 
providers have been making major strides in improving access to 
high-quality healthcare in high-quality facilities. Supporting 
the IHS budget, including the joint venture staffing package, 
will continue this legacy. Thank you again for the opportunity 
to provide testimony on behalf of SEARCHC, and I am happy to 
answer any questions you might have.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Michael.
    Mr. Douglas. Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Douglas follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Mary Jane.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                            NEZ PERCE TRIBE


                                WITNESS

MARY JANE MILES, VICE CHAIRMAN, NEZ PERCE TRIBE
    Ms. Miles. Thank you. Good afternoon. I am Mary Jane Miles, 
vice chair of the Nez Perce Tribal Executive Committee, and I 
am also an ordained minister in the Presbyterian church, and I 
serve two Native-American Presbyterian churches. The Nimiipuu, 
the Nez Perce, want to thank this committee to hear us out and 
to understand the needs of Indian Country and our tribal 
governments and all the members that share our community.
    Like any government, the tribe does a variety of work and 
provides a lot of services not only for our tribal membership, 
but for the citizens that share our homeland. The tribe has a 
healthcare clinic, a tribal police force, a social services 
department, and a comprehensive natural resource program, and 
one of the largest fisheries department of any tribe in the 
Nation working on the recovery of listed species in the 
Endangered Species Act. Each of these programs is necessary to 
preserve and protect the treaty rights of the Nimiipuu. Today I 
am going to focus on public safety and law enforcement. In 
relation to the BIA public safety and justice account, the 
tribe supports a $75.5 million increase to funding for law 
enforcement over what was enacted in the account in fiscal year 
2024.
    The Nez Perce Reservation spans 1,200 square miles, 
covering five counties, and has a mixture of tribal and non-
tribal citizens. The reservation is rural, in North Central 
Idaho, and it is home to a State that statutorily refuses to 
recognize tribal law enforcement as peace officers. This is a 
major barrier to finding suitable space to house offenders 
arrested by tribal officers. In some instances, local jails 
have refused to house our inmates because of their first 
obligation to State-recognized agencies. Sometimes our officers 
have been forced to transport inmates to other reservations up 
to 8 hours away. This has had major implications to staff, 
public safety, and officer morale in working to provide 
adequate services to the communities on our reservation.
    The tribe provides a full-service law and justice program 
and recently completed construction of a detention facility. 
The tribe has a fully trained and staffed police force, a court 
prosecutor, public defender, and other personnel. Currently the 
tribe covers 80 percent, about $4 million, of the cost of these 
services. The BIA only covers 20 percent, about $1 million. The 
jail facility is necessary to house tribal inmates but comes 
with increased operational costs, and our dispatch services 
alone take up 35 percent of the BIA monies. If the tribe were 
to only pay staff using BIA-contracted dollars, those funds 
would cover roughly 12 positions. Our needs assessment is that 
we need 29 police department employees. The shortfall in 
funding is especially felt considering the fentanyl crisis that 
we all are impacted by.
    The money to pay for these services comes from tribal taxes 
on goods and fuel and from gaming revenues which could be used 
for governmental services. For the tribe to fulfill its law 
enforcement on the Nez Perce Reservation, an overall increase 
of funding is about $1.5 million, which is needed from the BIA 
for staffing and operational costs.
    I want to thank you for hearing me out and I want to invite 
Chairman Simpson, especially, to our homeland on the Nez Perce 
Reservation, as well as all of you to come and visit the 
Nimiipuu. Thank you.
    [The statement of Ms. Miles follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Mary Jane. I plan on being up there 
this summer to talk a little bit about salmon recovery. Willow.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                 CHUGACH REGIONAL RESOURCES COMMISSION


                                WITNESS

WILLOW HETRICK-PRICE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CHUGACH REGIONAL RESOURCES 
    COMMISSION
    Ms. Hetrick-Price. Good afternoon. My name is Willow 
Hetrick-Price. I am the executive director of Chugach Regional 
Resources Commission. We abbreviate ourselves as CRRC, kind of 
sounds a little bit like SEARCHC, but it is not. We are an 
Intertribal Fish and Wildlife Commission responsible for over 
31 million acres of Alutiiq/Sugpiaq and Eyak homelands and 
waters of Alaska's Chugach region. I am going to be talking to 
you about two issues today. First, that our BIA Tribal 
Management Development Program, or TMDP, program funding be 
increased to parity with the increases in the program budget 
overall; and second that you exercise fiscal oversight to 
ensure that BIA's management aligns with Congress' intentions.
    CRRCA is a consortium of seven Alaska Native village 
Chugach, Eyak, Port Graham, Chenega, Nanwalek, Tatitlek, 
Qutekcak Native Tribe, and Valdez Native Tribe. We are the only 
entity that provides comprehensive natural resource management 
services throughout a land area larger than the size of West 
Virginia, and whose lands and waters would displace New York as 
the 30th largest State in the Nation. Most of our communities 
are not accessed by road. The only way our tribal citizens and 
tribal members survive is through hunting, fishing, and 
gathering of subsistence resources. As the original managers of 
our land and water, our tribal people have unparalleled 
knowledge and strong cultural ties to the ecosystem, which 
informs our biocultural management and restoration within CRRC.
    We perform a myriad of services, habitat protection and 
enhancement, conservation, stock assessments of subsistence 
resources, climate adaptation planning, environmental capacity 
building in our communities, to name a few. We also monitor the 
ecosystem, provide hydroponics and game processing facilities 
for food security purposes, and operate the only tribal marine 
research and shellfish hatchery in the State of Alaska where we 
have begun getting into the kelp mariculture industry, which I 
know you all have heard a lot about. For these activities, from 
the BIA through TMDP, we received $410,000 annually. This works 
out to be less than one-and-a-half cents per acre.
    Compare this in our region to the National Park Service's 
$4.6 million budget for the Kenai Fjords National Park, which 
is less than 2 percent of our territory. That is $7.64 cents an 
acre that they have to manage their land, and the Forest 
Service's $21 million budget for managing natural resources in 
the Chugach National Forest, which is about a third the size of 
our region. That is $3.89 cents an acre that they get to do 
their work. Over the past 10 years, Congress has more than 
doubled the budget for TMDP, and this is great because there is 
inflation, and every dollar that is provided to tribal 
organizations at a local level results in far more savings to 
the Federal Government in terms of staffing, project costs, 
travel, and duplication of experts. Unfortunately in that same 
10-year period, our budget was increased only once, which is 
equal to less than 1 percent per year. We request that you 
increase CRRC's TMDP Fund to $1.18 million to bring CRRC's 
budget back in line with other programs in the TMDP account.
    Our results are worth the investment, I promise. In the 
last 5 years, we have increased our operating budget from $1 ne 
to $5 million per year. For every dollar of Federal subsistence 
special project funds, we have returned $3 and 50 cents on 
investment by leveraging other public and private funds and 
resources. These efforts, in turn, inform and enrich Federal 
and State agencies' data and management decisions for natural 
resources. But our lack of recurring based funding means that 
this isn't sustainable. We are severely limited by short 
project durations, the heavy burden of compiling grant 
applications, and associated reports once funding, and the lack 
of certainty from year to year. And so a stable fair increase 
in our base funding in TMDP would allow us to increase the 
Federal return on investment and build a sustainable natural 
resource management program in our region.
    Second, we also ask that you exercise oversight of the BIA 
requiring reports to you when BIA fails to make payments to 
tribes. You guys put in a lot of difficult work to get funding 
and to keep the agencies going, but BIA does not get that 
funding to us with the same urgency. We begin work each fiscal 
year on October 1st but do not receive that funding, even 
though the BIA does, until 6 to 9 months after beginning 
working. To this day, today, we have not received our funding 
for fiscal year 2024 and no response from the BIA about when 
funding may come. So we are paying for the government's work 
out of our own pocket for months and, in some cases, years. So 
we ask you include report language requiring the BIA to pay 
tribes within 30 days and report to you on that performance. 
Thank you so much for having me.
    [The statement of Ms. Hetrick-Price follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. It is interesting how it takes so long. Donna.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                        SOUTHCENTRAL FOUNDATION


                                WITNESS

DONNA  GALBREATH,  M.D.  SENIOR  MEDICAL  DIRECTOR,  SOUTHCENTRAL  
    FOUNDATION
    Dr. Galbreath. Thank you, and thank all of you. I am Dr. 
Donna Galbreath. I am the senior medical director of quality 
assurance for South Central Foundation, or SCFI. I am a tribal 
member of the Mentasta Traditional Council. SCF is an Alaska 
Native tribal health organization. SCF is one of the largest 
employers in the State of Alaska with over 2,700 employees. We 
serve 70,000 Alaska Native and American Indian people providing 
healthcare. Our service area is over a hundred thousand square 
miles, which is not very small. It is basically the size of 
Wyoming for another reference. We have over 85 programs. We 
deliver healthcare. We deliver primary care, and dental care, 
and behavioral health and addiction programs, just to name a 
few. We also co-own and co-manage the Alaska Native Medical 
Center with Alaska Tribal Health Consortium.
    Advanced appropriations is critical to the stability of the 
tribal healthcare system. SCF appreciates the Appropriations 
Committee providing advanced appropriations to the Indian 
Health Service 2025 budget. These appropriations should be 
permanent until mandatory funding is secure. In addition, there 
needs to be increased funding because of the cost of medical 
inflation and the growth of population. If this isn't done, 
eventually care will be affected, and the health disparities 
will increase. Mandatory appropriations and exemptions from 
sequestration are also needed. Indian Health Service is the 
only Federal healthcare program that is not exempt from 
sequestration. The possibility of cuts leads to uncertainty in 
budgeting, and you all know you can't run a business without 
knowing your budget, so it is a big issue.
    SCF appreciates the committee's attention to 105(l) leases. 
SCF supports that these costs remain part of appropriations. 
These costs and contract support costs should be mandatory. 
Twice the Supreme Court has ruled that Indian Health Service 
should pay for contract health support costs. Indian Health 
Service has actually deemed part of those costs as secretarial 
and refuse to reimburse. These costs have been paid 
historically and are part of contract health support costs. SCF 
requests that the committee include language in the 
appropriations bill that requires Indian Health Service to 
compute 2025 contract support costs as done in 2021.
    The pandemic has highlighted the shortage of healthcare 
workers. It has also caused widespread burnout, and this is a 
national issue and it is actually critical. You can't have 
healthcare if you don't have enough workers. So this is 
actually felt much more severely in tribal communities because 
it is hard to recruit and retain people in these communities. 
SCF has built systems internally to help with this, but 
additional support is needed from the Federal Government. There 
needs to be increased scholarships and increased bonuses for 
hiring and retention for anyone working within tribal 
organization. In Alaska, one of the key factors in recruiting 
and retention is the lack of professional housing. Indian 
Health Service should do a needs assessment of professional 
housing in Alaska and then seek funding.
    Behavioral health is a big issue. Some people have already 
mentioned that. Alaska Native and American Indian people are 
disproportionately represented in behavioral health issues. The 
drug overdose death rate in American Indian/Alaska Native 
people increased by 39 percent from 2019 to 2020. That is 1 
year. That is a huge increase. The suicide rate amongst Alaska 
Native people is 3 times the national average, and in some 
communities it is 6 times the national average. SCF has 
integrated behavioral health to try to address some of this 
needs, but there is only so much we can do. There is a dramatic 
need for increased funding for behavioral health needs. This 
funding should be appropriated and then distributed to all 
tribal health programs through formulas rather than through the 
grant process. The grant process cannot affect all of these 
things. The need is just too great.
    The intent of Build American and Buy American Act is 
appreciated, but there are financial restrictions. We know 
there are waivers, but those are complicated and they take a 
long time, so a lot of times the construction season is missed. 
SCF encourages the committee in Congress to consider a narrow 
tribal exemption for this act. In terms of self-determination, 
SCF suggests that the committees for jurisdiction consider 
moving beyond Indian Health Service when it comes to 
contracting and compacting to allow indigenous people to chart 
their own healthcare path.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify in front of you on 
behalf of South Central Foundation and the 70,000 people that 
we partner with on our journey to health and wellness. Thanks.
    [The statement of Dr. Galbreath follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Donna. What is your assessment of 
what has caused the increase in suicide rates and drug 
addiction that you mentioned?
    Dr. Galbreath. It is a multitude of things. You see this 
nationally. It is not just American Indian and Alaska Native 
people. You see it everywhere. I think there are a lot of 
things that contribute to that. Social determinants of health 
have contributed to that and just people feeling like they 
can't get out of whatever situation they are in. It just leads 
to hopelessness and helplessness.
    Mr. Simpson. And you mentioned the difficulty of finding 
healthcare workers in Alaska, and this is an issue we have 
talked about many times, but how do you get a doctor to go to a 
remote village in Alaska that he has got to fly to be there? 
That has got to be a real challenge.
    Dr. Galbreath. Yes, it is a challenge. We don't expect 
doctors in every single community. That is not going to work. 
So we have a system where you have community health aides in 
the smaller areas, and then in some of the hubs you have 
physician assistants and nurse practitioners. In the larger 
areas they have the doctor. So it creates this web of care 
throughout the State, but we just don't get enough doctors at 
all, and I am also speaking on behalf of all tribes. It is not 
just Alaska, but all tribes have this issue, too, and it is the 
same thing. It is rural sites. There is no housing. They go 
into a community that they really don't know the population, 
they don't know the culture, they don't understand things, and 
it seems very foreign. Some people thrive in that situation, 
but some people don't.
    Mr. Simpson. Some people retire to that situation.
    Dr. Galbreath. That is right. You are absolutely right.
    Mr. Simpson. Do you a lot of telemedicine?
    Dr. Galbreath. Yes, we do. Yeah, and we increased that, 
especially because of COVID. We went to a lot of telemedicine 
then. We always did it, but we increased that a lot because we 
wanted to ensure that people got the care they needed even if 
they couldn't come in, and people were actually pretty 
receptive to that. The people we serve are empaneled to their 
provider because want them to get to know their provider and 
their provider to get to know them and build that relationship. 
And because those relationships were built, we were able to 
actually do that type of care by distance in a good way. People 
were receptive of it, but I will say that after 2-and-a-half 
years, I am stumbling because I want to say, ``customer 
owners,'' what we call patients is customer owners. After 2-
and-a-half years, our customer owners said, nope, I want to see 
my provider, and so they started coming back in, and we limited 
times and people within our system. But it actually worked out 
well, and we did see a decrease in some of our statistics, but 
not by much, not compared to some other organizations.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Ms. Pingree?
    Ms. Pingree. Well, thank you everybody for your testimony 
and appreciate both the healthcare perspectives from Alaska, 
and just the magnitude of the area you have to cover is 
enormous and really appreciate many of your thoughts, and good 
luck with the new hospital. I am glad to hear that is moving 
forward. That seems like a really significant move. An 80-year-
old facility, that is pretty darn old to have to deal with, and 
thank you, Vice Chairwoman. The things you brought up about law 
enforcement, we have been talking a lot about today, and just 
the very idea that you might have to drive somebody 9 hours to 
get to a facility is really unthinkable. But the chair talked 
about that earlier about the complicated web of who has 
jurisdiction and then the disagreements with jurisdiction when 
the county doesn't always get along with the thinking of the 
law enforcement of the tribe. It shouldn't be such a 
complicated problem, so I hope we can work on that more.
    And very interested to hear about all the work you are 
doing with wildlife management. It is interesting, I come from 
Maine and we have a growing kelp industry, and I was just 
visiting one of our kelp processors the other day, and they 
were like, we got to pick up the pace. Alaska is going to take 
over.
    Voice. [Inaudible.] [Laughter.]
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah, there you go, but, I mean there is a 
huge future in aquaculture, and we both have States with huge 
fisheries. We are tiny compared to Alaska, but with the 
changing temperature, with a lot of factors going on in the 
ocean, it is really important that we are investing in 
aquaculture, so I hope we can offer you more support in the 
kind of resource management that you are doing. So thank you 
all very much. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Ellzey.
    Mr. Ellzey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
being here. I would like to point out the Woodbury Forest 
School on our government class trip. Thank you, gentlemen, for 
being here. We have been doing this for 150 years with the 
tribes and haven't gotten it right yet, and this just continues 
to tell us that. And as we talk about the suicides and opioid 
abuse rates, and with the lack of law enforcement on the reses, 
now the cartels are moving in and killing our young men and 
women and killing our future, so staggering statistics, and it 
is a tragedy and a travesty at the same time. And, Mary Jane, I 
just want to tell you on a brighter note, I could hear you 
talk, I could listen to you talk all day long, and so you can 
hold us in rapt attention. You have a beautiful voice, and I 
think you should be in movies. You are very good at it. But 
thank you all for being here, and we have to get these things 
right. So thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. So let me just ask this before I go 
to Betty. Representative Ellzey mentioned the fentanyl crisis. 
We have heard that on all the other reservations that are down 
in the lower 48. Same thing happening in Alaska?
    Dr. Galbreath. Yes, it is, and it is going up just like 
every other place.
    Mr. Simpson. Is it?
    Dr. Galbreath. Yes.
    Mr. Simpson. Because of its remoteness? I am wondering how 
the hell does a cartel get out to someplace that is so remote 
but I guess they are geniuses that way.
    Dr. Galbreath. Yes, they are, and it is slower. Tranq, that 
probably everybody has heard about here, has just now reached 
Alaska, so it is a little slower getting there, all the stuff, 
but fentanyl has been there for a while, and we have seen a 
marked increase in deaths. It has slowed a little bit, but it 
is still increasing every year.
    Mr. Simpson. Yeah, I know that is a big issue with the Nez 
Pierce and stuff. I have talked to the chairman quite a bit 
about it. Ms. McCollum.
    Ms. McCollum. Thank you. The conversation, it is a delicate 
one to even talk about because whenever you talk about suicide, 
you want to offer resources immediately. So Congress has been 
working on a first call for help and other things. But in this 
room, back several years ago, we had some tribal youth, the 
future, young adults, talk about what was going on with suicide 
at the time at Pine Ridge, and we put some dollars into suicide 
prevention on that. So this morning we kind of focused on 
education. People were talking about Johnson O'Malley, drug 
courts, early intervention for youth. Being outside with an 
adult, taking that deep breath, having someone pay attention to 
you or just walk silently next to you. In Alaska, with the 
remoteness and that, suicide rates are going up for our youth 
all across the country. People are feeling hopelessness. Some 
of it was contributed to COVID. Some of it might not be 
contributed to COVID.
    What are some of the things that, especially with youth and 
suicide, that it is best to talk to them as they did to us. 
After the hearing was done, we sat in a room with the doors 
closed and just let them talk. But are there some things with 
mental health, especially for young adults, that you think we 
need to be aware of as we put this budget together?
    Dr. Galbreath. I think mental health overall has not been 
funded, and I think that suicide is a very complex problem, and 
so there isn't one nice solution. I wish there was, I really 
do, because whenever a suicide occurs, it affects everybody. It 
is really horrendous. So it is going to take a multipronged 
approach to even come close to making a difference. I think it 
is really important that people learn to be proud of who they 
are and where they come from, and so there is a lot of effort 
within tribal communities to build up the culture again and to 
teach young people how to be culturally appropriate and what it 
means to be a part of that tribe. I think things like that 
help. I think support for families also help.
    Like I said, it is a multipronged approach. It is not going 
to be easy, but ignoring it doesn't mean it is going to go 
away. I think it is going to get worse before it gets better.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Edwards.
    Mr. Edwards. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our 
guests. I really appreciate you taking time to be here to share 
your stories and talk about what is important. I know that you 
traveled a great distance to be here. This committee would not 
have the opportunity to hear from you had you not made the 
financial and the time commitment to be here.
    I want you to know that your testimony, your comments are 
meaningful. There are a lot of needs for our tribal nations in 
this country. I wish that we could go and meet every one of 
those instantly. I doubt that we are going to be able to do 
that, but you being here is extremely, extremely meaningful in 
us knowing what those needs are as we make our decisions to 
help prioritize those. So thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Kilmer.
    Mr. Kilmer. I just want to say thank you, and I appreciate 
you sharing your testimony.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, and I should tell you before I let 
you go, I really do appreciate the work that the resource 
people do in both Alaska and what the Nez Pierce do in Idaho 
and other tribes. Having studied Idaho salmon runs which are 
endangered, and they will go extinct if something is not done, 
I will tell you, my firm belief is if it had not been for the 
Indian tribes, those fish would be extinct today. But the 
incredible work that they have done in keeping them alive until 
we can get a solution that gets them off the threatened and 
endangered list and gets them back to levels.
    Every tribe in the Pacific Northwest, when they sign 
treaties, they retain their right to fish in their traditional 
places of fishing. Guess what? Those rights don't mean anything 
if there is no fish there, and especially if the reason there 
is no fish there is because of actions we have taken, so we 
have an obligation there. And you tell Chairman Wheeler when 
you see him that I will be up there this summer and we will 
talk some more about this, but we have had many great 
conversations over the years at the summits that we have been 
at, so thank you all. Thank you all for being here today. I 
appreciate it very much.
    Quinton Swanson and Esther Lucero.
                              ----------                              


                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                      SHOALWATER BAY INDIAN TRIBE


                                WITNESS

QUINTON SWANSON, CHAIRMAN, SHOALWATER BAY INDIAN TRIBE
    Mr. Swanson. Thank you, Chairman Simpson, Ranking Member 
Pingree, and members of the subcommittee for this opportunity 
to share our priorities for fiscal year 2025. My name is 
Quinton Swanson. I am the chairman of the Shoalwater Bay Indian 
Tribe. We are located on the beautiful north shore of Willapa 
Bay in Washington State. Like many coastal tribes, we are 
stewards of the ocean. As tribal chairman and lifelong resident 
of Tokeland, I have learned firsthand that vibrant and 
successful communities are not possible without a healthy 
community and a healthy environment. I appreciate the 
subcommittee is responsible for these same priorities, and it 
is in that shared spirit of community that I speak to you 
today.
    Tribal communities are uniquely impacted by our changing 
environment due to a deep connection to our ancestral 
homelands. My tribe faces persistent erosion and sea level 
rise. Our current reservation is just barely above sea level, 
and a rise of just 2 more feet would put everything underwater. 
At any moment, a single tsunami would take out our entire 
community and what defines us as Shoalwater water people. I 
urge this subcommittee to support significantly increased 
funding for Indian Country, especially chronically underfunded 
tribal environmental resiliency programs. We are disheartened 
that the subcommittee approved limitations on BIA and IHS 
funding in 2024. I remind the subcommittee that its trust and 
treaty obligations exist irrespective of any self-imposed 
budgeting caps.
    For my tribe, there is no choice but to move to higher 
safer ground. We purchased land adjacent to our reservation at 
250 feet above sea level. The land is completely raw and 
undeveloped, meaning we must heavily invest to move our 
community there. This upland relocation project is currently 
estimated to cost up to $450 million. We have been tapping out 
our own reserves and doing everything we can to implement the 
early phases of this project while still caring for our 
citizens simultaneously. Yet the Federal Government is failing 
us. We are only able to manage our survival piece by piece as 
we go from agency to agency and appeal to our congressional 
delegation to string resources together. This is unsustainable 
and inconsistent with the Federal trust responsibility. I 
remind the subcommittee that the failure to dedicate adequate 
resources to these efforts is tantamount to being complicit in 
the disappearance of our lands, our people, and our way of 
life.
    Fortunately, I come here today to offer a potential 
solution: H.R. 7859, the Tribal Environmental Resiliency 
Resources Act, or TERRA Act. I thank you, Chairman Simpson and 
Representative Kilmer, for your vision and leadership on the 
TERRA Act, and I ask the other members of this subcommittee to 
support this bill as well. Modeled on the success of the PL 477 
Program, the TERRA Act would create a hub and interior for 
tribes to identify and access existing resources by integrating 
them into comprehensive plans tailored to their resiliency 
needs.
    We are finding that the problem is not that the resources 
do not exist, but more that they are siloed across the Federal 
Government with restrictive or conflicting timelines and 
requirements. The TERRA Act fills gaps and eliminates barriers, 
cutting through red tape to provide tribes with one place to go 
for accessing resources and deciding for themselves how to best 
serve their communities. The TERRA Act has widespread support 
from Indian Country. I urge the subcommittee to support prompt 
passage of the bipartisan TERRA Act. There is no time to waste.
    We also support increasing the IHS budget. We support full 
mandatory funding for all IHS accounts at $54 billion. The 
Federal trust responsibility is obligatory and should be 
treated as such. We especially support mandatory funding for 
CSC and Section 105(l) leases in line with the obligatory 
nature of these payments. If full mandatory appropriations 
cannot be achieved this year, we continue to support advanced 
appropriations in the short term.
    Thank you for your time and attention. Our full 
recommendation is available in our written testimony. I invite 
all of you to come visit us at Shoalwater. We look forward to 
sharing with you our resilience as a sovereign nation. 
[Speaking native language.]
    [The statement of Mr. Swanson follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Quinton. I will take you up that. I 
have never been.
    Mr. Simpson. Surprisingly, having lived that close, I have 
never been to the Olympic Peninsula, really. I have been to 
Seattle, but I have never gone around on the peninsula.
    Mr. Simpson. Esther.
                              ----------                             


                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                      SEATTLE INDIAN HEALTH BOARD


                                WITNESS

ESTHER LUCERO, PRESIDENT AND CEO, SEATTLE INDIAN HEALTH BOARD
    Ms. Lucero. [Speaking native language], everybody. My name 
is Esther Lucero. I am Dine on my mom's side, Latina on my 
dad's side, and I am third generation of my family to live in 
an urban environment. It is really nice to see you again, 
Chairman Simpson, Ranking Member Pingree-- my goodness--
Congresswoman Betty McCollum. It is just really nice to see 
you. I haven't seen you for a couple of years, so wonderful to 
see you. Same with you, Congressman Kilmer, and I would like to 
welcome you, Congressman Edwards, to this committee. I love 
that you are on Labor HHS. That is going to be significant, and 
I will tell you why in just a moment. Nice to see you, Mr. 
Ellzey.
    So first, I just want to start off, let's get the 
appropriations out of the way. We are aligned with our 29 
federally-recognized tribes in the State of Washington where 
they have swiftly and aggressively advocated to get the Indian 
Health Service to full funding. What that means for the urban 
Indian line item is we are advocating to get to $977.4 million. 
So that is very, very important that we move in that direction, 
and I will tell you why.
    Last year I came here and I spoke to the committee, and I 
shared all of the incredible successes that we have had at the 
Seattle Indian Health Board. I was grateful for things like the 
funds that came through ARPA, Infrastructure dollars, those 
types of things, and I expressed to you all what we have done 
with that money. I also was grateful for the fact that we would 
secured a 2-year pilot for a hundred percent FMAP funds, and I 
shared with you that we purchased a building where we are 
opening a 92-bed residential treatment program, right, to 
address the opioid crisis, which we are planning to open 
February 2025. And we talked about traditional new medicine 
last year a lot and how we have actually developed a model 
where you can bill for it within our system. We have developed 
the mechanism to make that happen where we have coding and 
everything you need to be successful.
    So why am I frustrated today? Because, Chairman Simpson, 
you said we are not going to take steps backwards. I am 
grateful that we didn't have cuts last year, and I am 
disappointed to hear that we are not moving forward with a 
hundred percent FMAP. And I am going to tell you why that is 
important, because we just learned from CMS that urban Indians 
are not going to be eligible, like tribes, to bill for 
traditional new medicine services, and they say it is because 
we don't have access to a hundred percent FMAP. So here we are 
moving out of a 2-year pilot where the Seattle Indian Health 
Board has been a leader in developing systems, and now we are 
not going to be eligible to receive that reimbursement.
    That is frustrating because when we had a hundred percent 
FMAP, we were able to build a residential treatment program to 
address a crisis that you all are talking about constantly, to 
address a crisis that is connected to our border issues, to 
address a crisis that is connected to missing and murdered 
indigenous women and gender-based violence. We will increase 
the capacity for the State of Washington to address these 
issues by 64 percent with the opening of this residential 
program, and I am today going back to where we were 30 years 
ago. Secure a hundred percent FMAP for Urban Indian programs. 
Then you won't have to depend so much on Medicaid. 
Congresswoman McCollum, you mentioned earlier about Medicaid 
supplementing IHS. We either get to full funding or we make 
this billing revenue more accessible to us because I will tell 
you, I will do my part.
    We have been your greatest return on investment, right? We 
have businessmen at this table, and you know what that means. 
You invested a little bit of money, and I gave you significant 
return. You asked us to improve our workforce development. 
Guess what? We went from one program to 29 different programs. 
We have graduated our first MSW practicum students who are now 
fully licensed. Every single one of our mental health providers 
is native. We are making an impact. So what I am saying is you 
asked me to do something and I deliver, and I need you to not 
lose this momentum, right? We secured advanced appropriations 
for 1 year. I am hoping that we are moving to mandatory 
spending. Why can't we continue advanced appropriations? It 
worked for us. You are hearing from tribal partners the same 
exact thing, right?
    We start talking about suicidal ideation and suicide. The 
key to that is strengthening cultural identities. We have 
proven that our first data pool for folks who access 
traditional new medicine and our services, there is a 28-
percent reduction in suicidal ideation, 21 percent reduction in 
alcohol consumption, 5 percent reduction in depression. If you 
want to see changes in those outcomes and save our next 
generations, continue the investment. We will do our part. 
Yeah, I think that is what I have to say. Thank you for having 
me today.
    [The statement of Ms. Lucero follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, and let me tell you, Esther, I have 
seen no stronger advocate for this than you, so thanks for 
being here today. Ms. Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah. Well, thank you both, and thank you for 
different reasons. Thank you for your strong advocacy. I will 
plead guilty to not completely understanding the technicalities 
of the FMAP, so I will educate myself overnight on that, and we 
can have a follow-up conversation because I do appreciate the 
work that you are doing. And I am worried that we are dealing 
with tight budgets here and we are making cuts no matter what. 
It was hard enough to get through 2024. 2025 is going to be 
even trickier, and just as you said, everything that we go 
backwards on is a real loss to healthcare centers like yours, 
but also tribes all over the country, so thank you.
    And thank you for filling us in on the challenges of your 
tribe. It has been a concern of mine for a long time, the 
communities that are on the edge of the water. I represent the 
State of Maine, so we know a lot about coastal erosion. We have 
had some extremely severe storms this winter, and seeing the 
level of damage that can happen in a matter of 2024 hours, 
everything has changed. And so the fact that you guys are 2 
feet away from your sea level maximum, that is really serious. 
So I hope we can continue to work with you more, and I 
appreciate your suggestions in that bill. I guess I am not a 
co-sponsor, but I will find out more about it.
    But I think in the long run, we really need to think about 
how do we get the levels of funding that you need because $450 
million to move one community, and we have got a lot of 
communities, multiples of them in Alaska, many I know in your 
State. Current estimates are something like, yeah, $5 billion 
just to move the communities that we already know have to be 
moved, and that is our obligation. So I look forward to working 
with you on that, and I yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. Mr. Ellzey.
    [No response.]
    Mr. Simpson. Ms. McCollum.
    Ms. McCollum. Thank you both for your testimony, and we 
just need a bigger allocation. We are hoping with our good 
friend from this committee, a good friend to Indian Country, 
maybe we will be able to do a little more than we have in the 
past, but I have learned not to make promises I can't keep 
because you are dealing with hundreds of years of broken 
promises.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Edwards.
    Mr. Edwards. Yeah. Again, I would just like to express my 
appreciation for you being here. Particularly for the newer 
members of this committee, I think it is extremely valuable to 
hear from you, so thanks for making the commitment to be here.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Kilmer.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Chairman. I want to start by 
formally inviting you to the 6th Congressional District of 
Washington.
    Mr. Simpson. I thought I would get one out of you.
    Mr. Kilmer. There we go. Actually, though, I also want to 
thank you chairman for being a co-lead on the TERRA Act. It is 
rare for someone from Montana to sign on to a bill that is 
focused on helping coastal tribes relocate.
    Mr. Simpson. If I was from Montana, that would be 
important.
    Ms. Pingree. Idaho.
    Mr. Kilmer. Oh sorry, Idaho. [Laughter.]
    Mr. Kilmer. I knew that. I knew that.
    Ms. Pingree. One of those.
    Mr. Kilmer. Excuse me.
    Ms. McCollum. Maybe you can get Zinke on it.
    Mr. Kilmer. Yeah. I should try to get Zinke on it. But it 
says a lot of his approach to these issues that even though it 
doesn't impact his community, it impacts our country and it 
impacts your tribe, and, therefore, he signed onto it, and that 
is a testament to his leadership. Chairman Swanson, can you 
just say a little bit more about the sort of morass of when you 
are dealing with all of these different agencies, different 
sets of rules, different timelines, different matching 
requirements, what it has meant to you and your ability to 
execute relocation versus if we actually pass something like 
the TERRA Act, what it would mean in terms of your ability to 
get things done?
    Mr. Swanson. Yeah. So in the last year, we have received 
several different pieces of funding: $25 million through the 
Department of Transportation to put in a road to our new 
community; $6.2 million through HUD to build several 
townhouses, as well as $1.2 million through EDA to develop a 
master plan. HUD has given us 3 years to expend those funds. 
DOT has given us 8 years to expend those funds. From the time 
that HUD actually awarded us the money to expend and the time 
that we had it in our account to expend was about 3 weeks. We 
still have yet to be able to expend the DOT funding, and that 
has been 8 or 9 months now. And so these timelines don't really 
coincide with each other.
    So we just awarded a contract to develop our master plan. 
We have 2 years to expend that, and it has really just been a 
piecemealing effort trying to cut through a lot of red tape, 
trying to jump through hoops. We received some passthrough 
funding through IHS that wasn't able to touch HUD funding, and 
so we had to mitigate that. And so we are really hoping that 
TERRA would be able to allow us to better piecemeal this 
funding and actually execute in a timely fashion without going 
through all these barriers.
    Mr. Kilmer. I appreciate that and would love to invite my 
colleagues to take a look at that bill. We will make sure you 
all see copies of what it does, and to me, this is a good 
government bill. It is government efficiency, right? Let's not 
waste people's time and money by having different sets of rules 
and regulations. Let's try to have some clarity to it. Esther, 
thank you for your good words, and I think you are right. You 
are a terrific investment. You do a lot with a little. If we 
fund the urban Indian health at the requested level, what does 
it mean for the communities you serve, and what does it mean if 
we don't?
    Ms. Lucero. Well, I can tell you that for the 2-year pilot, 
it resulted in $11 million, and that is why we were able to 
purchase a building to be able to expand those services. So if 
you think about that investment going right back into 
communities, right, and what kind of dent that makes in to our 
ask to get to full funding, that is significant.
    Mr. Kilmer. Yeah.
    Ms. Lucero. The other thing is because we are leaders in 
this effort, we are looking forward to sharing with our tribal 
partners, right, how you build it into the electronic health 
record system. And thinking about our movement, we were the 
first urban Indian health program to become a federally-
qualified health center, and we were told that you couldn't 
build in traditional new medicine into the system. Well, we 
have proven that is wrong. We actually have three managed care 
organizations who have agreed to pay for it as a value-added 
benefit. We have one that is completely tested it in the 
system, and it works. It works. So if you want to reduce 
suicide in our communities, put a number on that.
    Mr. Kilmer. Yeah.
    Ms. Lucero. Put a number on that.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you. I yield back to the gentleman from 
Idaho. [Laughter.]
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, and thank you both for being here, 
and I will tell you, as has been said, last year was an ugly 
budget year. I understand why it was. We were overspending nd 
you look at the national debt and a few things like that, and 
we felt like we had to reduce spending. Now we are never going 
to get rid of all the national debt by just cutting and cutting 
and cutting, but I suspect, and I told you last year, we are 
not going to go back. I will tell you it is going to be an 
uglier year this year. We are still not going to go back, okay? 
I appreciate it. Thank you all for being here.
    Ms. Lucero. Thank you.
    Mr. Swanson. Thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. Panel 23: Abigail Echo-Hawk, Guy Capoeman, Ed 
Johnstone, yeah.
    Mr. Simpson. Abigail, are you related to Larry?
    Ms. Echo-Hawk. Yes.
    Mr. Simpson. All right. That is what I thought. We have met 
before. Anyway, you are first.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

       URBAN INDIAN HEALTH INSTITUTE, SEATTLE INDIAN HEALTH BOARD


                                WITNESS

ABIGAIL ECHO-HAWK, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, URBAN INDIAN HEALTH 
    INSTITUTE, SEATTLE INDIAN HEALTH BOARD
    Ms. Echo-Hawk. Thank you so much, Chairman Simpson and 
members of the committee, for having me. My name is Abigail 
Echo-Hawk. I am a citizen of the Pawnee Nation of Oklahoma, and 
I serve as the executive vice president of the Seattle Indian 
Health Board. You just heard from my boss, the incredible 
Esther Lucero, where I direct all of our public health work, 
specifically our Tribal Epidemiology Center, the Urban Indian 
Health Institute, and I am here to speak to you about the work 
of our Tribal Epidemiology Center today.
    Last week, May 5th, was National Remembrance Day on missing 
and murdered indigenous women and girls, and it is one that our 
organization has been leading on. The Urban Indian Health 
Institute continues to be the national leader on research and 
data and interventions related to missing and murdered 
indigenous women and girls. I spent that last week with young 
people in the State of Washington and across the country where 
I realized as I sat in rooms with young women, native women, 
that the number one thing that they are advocating for, as we 
think about folks who do high school projects, that are working 
in their colleges, who are researching and thinking about 
impact in their communities, is a majority of them are 
advocating on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls 
and people. I sit with young people who the number one thing 
they are advocating for is to ensure that they don't get 
murdered. This is a reality that exists not only for the urban 
communities, but across our tribal communities.
    And so in 2018, the Urban Indian Health Institute released 
the very first data report on missing and murdered indigenous 
women and girls where we looked at the impact in 71 cities 
across the United States. That report was used and catalyzed to 
both ensure that Savanna's Act, which, at the time in the 
iteration at which it had been written, would not affect urban 
dwelling American Indians and Alaska Natives. It was used to 
ensure that urban Indians were included in that legislation. 
Within that legislation, the Department of Justice is to 
provide resources to not only the urban Indian people, but also 
urban law enforcement to ensure that they are appropriately 
addressing this crisis. And yet last week as I sat with 
advocates, I sat with family members, we wept more than we 
cried, we grieved more than we had seen any kind of justice. We 
recognize that Department of Justice has completely failed to 
give those resources to urban Indian communities.
    So when we talk about the opiate crisis, homelessness, the 
high rates of suicidality, we are battling a crisis of trauma 
in Indian Country, and until we address the root causes, we are 
going to sit here and continue to talk about how to combat the 
high rates of opiates and fentanyl, and yet that is not what is 
happening. So urban Indian programs like the Seattle Indian 
Health Board and those across the Nation along with tribal 
communities, we are utilizing our IHS dollars, which are so 
essential, which is why we need advanced appropriations at the 
full funding levels of the Indian Health Service because we are 
helping those family members who walk in our doors who have a 
loved one that is gone missing.
    I work with, for example, right now with a family where the 
mother, who has been in a long-term domestic violence 
relationship, had been impregnated and had 12 children before 
the age of 40, had suffered so much traumatic head injury that 
she was suffering from dementia. And yet our IHS dementia 
dollars are for folks who are elders, not for those who have 
been suffering traumatic brain injury as a result of the 
domestic violence that they are experiencing. And then that 
abuser, somebody not from our communities, was using her 
dementia as a way to not only keep her, because he would then 
say he would keep her children because she wouldn't be seen as 
cognitively fit to keep them. That is the crisis that we are 
talking about, and yet the Department of Justice has not 
stepped up.
    Recently in Washington, a family from the State of Alaska 
reached out because we had seen a murder of their loved one 5 
months before. And yet the police department had never reached 
out to that family, had not assigned an investigator, and nor 
did they do so until the tribe reached out to the Urban Indian 
Health Institute where we advocated for and were able to get 
that police department to appropriately invest and to work in a 
culturally-competent way with that family. We are doing the 
work that the Department of Justice is supposed to be doing and 
we will continue to do it, but I am furious about it. And we 
continue to see folks walk in our doors who require and we want 
to provide those traditional Indian medicine services that 
actually impact them, that actually show them that they are 
cared for and that our culture we know is what will lead us 
into healing. But until we can undo that underlying trauma, we 
are just going to be treating the symptoms.
    As a survivor of sexual violence myself that happened on 
and off tribal lands, and yet we saw, in my instance, more than 
20 years ago, where law enforcement refused to do anything 
because I was just an Indian girl, and that is actually what 
they told my dad. And then that person went on to abuse and 
rape more than 20 other people aside from myself. This maze of 
injustice that we all battle isn't something that is so far off 
that we just celebrate on May 5th, and remember, May 5th 
through me was a time for action. And until we have full 
funding for the Indian Health Service where our tribal 
epidemiology centers, like the Urban Indian Health Institute, 
finally have the resources and funding, we are going to be 
battling those symptoms. I don't want to keep sitting in rooms 
of young women who talk about what happened when they are going 
to get raped because they see it as an inevitability. Instead, 
I want to sit in rooms where we know that we are moving forward 
into healing.
    And I invite all of you to take that step forward with us, 
which means that we have to have full funding for the Indian 
healthcare system. We need to see a hearing related to missing 
and murdered indigenous women and girls, and we have to ensure 
that urban Indians are included because we have been excluded 
in that up until this point. We need accountability, we need 
resources, and we need to ensure that our right as tribal 
nations for public safety, as is within the treaty and trust 
responsibility, is upheld. And until then, I am going to keep 
showing up here angry, but I am going to keep offering the 
resources and the ways for us to move forward. So thank you for 
having me here today, and, again, I invite you, move forward 
with us in ensuring that this crisis doesn't continue.
    [The statement of Ms. Echo-Hawk follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Abigail. Ed.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

             NORTHWEST INDIAN FISHERIES COMMISSION (NWIFC)


                                WITNESS

ED JOHNSTONE, CHAIRMAN, NORTHWEST INDIAN FISHERIES COMMISSION (NWIFC)
    Mr. Johnstone. Yeah, thank you, Chairman. Boy, that subject 
affects me. I can't go into it, but that is close to my home, 
close to what I was exposed to.
    Thank you, Chairman Simpson, Ranking Member Pingree, 
Congressman Kilmer, honored members of the subcommittee. I come 
before you as a treaty Indian. I would like to acknowledge 
Congressman Kilmer from the 6th that we have had a long 
relationship with the congressmen. I also acknowledge our 
tribal leaders throughout Washington State that have come here 
and all over the country. Our connection with the Great Lakes 
and the Columbia River Intertribal Fish and Wildlife 
Commissions, our sister tribes, and those that have come before 
you and told our story as Indian people, that we spend our 
life's work for our people.
    My name is Ed Johnstone. I am a Quinault tribal member. I 
am in leadership as the chair of the Northwest Indian Fish 
Commission. We are 20 member tribes in Western Washington 
created after United States v. Washington, the Boldt decision. 
We have extensive management responsibilities, very complex, 
that are coast-wide to the Pacific Fisheries Management 
Council, internationally with the U.S. Salmon Treaty, and in 
the relationships with the States of Washington, Oregon, Idaho, 
and California, and Alaska. They are complex. Many of the 
stories that we face are stories you have heard today and 
yesterday about what climate has done to our natural world. 
Quinault is a reservation that needs to be moved up on the high 
ground, similar to Shoalwater Bay, similar to stories you may 
have heard out of Alaska. It has affected our ecosystems in the 
water and in the uplands, plants and animals, everything that 
is involved in our natural world.
    And so our written testimony or written request you will 
see on the table out there and we have advanced on behalf of 
the Northwest Indian Fish Commission, is critically important 
to our responsibility as co-managers. And I also speak for my 
grandchildren. I speak for my grandchildren's grandchildren and 
for those yet to come. It is the seven generations. I want them 
to have a place that has that cultural identity that is so much 
heavily impacted when you lose those kinds of activities that 
are your culture. And part of the demise of us as Indian people 
is because we have lost our identity when we hear about those 
things that inflict our lives, and a healthy culture means we 
have healthy people.
    So there are several programs, such as the $66 million for 
BIA Rights protection, that, foundationally, is the base 
funding for our tribes from the beginning; $1.109 million for 
Salmon Steelhead Habitat Inventory and Assessment Program that 
many of you are aware of that we worked on so hard to get it in 
position and to be something that has the ability to us to look 
at those salmon recovery plans that were adopted, and actually 
work through the planning process that characterizes what all 
of those natal streams from every one of our 20 member tribes 
in order to rebuild those stocks, very critical. We want to 
maintain that and go forward. Stable is good. Going forward is 
better. Fifteen million for BIA Fish and Wildlife and Parks, 
and $2 million for Western Washington Treaty Tribes Wildlife 
Management. We are working on additional legislation. We 
haven't gotten there yet, working with one that maybe is out 
there and one that we would worked on for a long time, and $57 
million for EPA's geographic programs.
    And with that, I appreciate your time, and we have been 
supported very well here through our rich history of the 
leadership of the 6th and our tribes. Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Johnstone follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Ed. I appreciate the work that you 
guys do trying to save the resources of the Pacific Northwest, 
particularly salmon. As you know, I am very interested in that 
and the ones that come to Idaho or don't come to Idaho anymore 
that should.
    Mr. Johnstone. Mr. Chair, I am happy to tell you that my 
daughter is a Nes Perce per tribal member.
    Mr. Simpson. All right. Good. Abigail, I don't think you 
could be any more upset about what is happening with murdered 
and missing indigenous women than I am. We look back at 9/11, 
and we can all picture on TVs watching the towers come down and 
the travesty that that was. We lost 3,000 people, but it was 
all at once. So it was very dramatic obviously, and it is 
burned into all of our memories. We lose twice that many women, 
tribal women, across this country every single year, 6,000. I 
mean, I had heard about it in the ether, but about a year ago 
when I was watching the Idaho Reports program. I was watching 
it on TV, and they had a woman on from the Nez Perce Tribe who 
was active in addressing this issue, and I sat and listened to 
her for a half hour. And I thought, why doesn't the rest of the 
country know this because I will guarantee you that if the rest 
of the American people knew the facts about this, there would 
be outrage. And yet very few people know about it. Very few 
people know how many murdered and missing indigenous women 
there are.
    You can bet there is going to be a hearing on it, and we 
are going to call in the Department of Justice. We are going to 
call in people that know about it and find out what is going on 
and why is it going on, and why are we not addressing it. And I 
suspect a lot of that is going to be inadequate law enforcement 
with the tribes and that we haven't funded and a few things 
like that, but it is going to be a big issue, and we need to 
highlight it so that the American people know about it. But why 
hasn't the news media reported on this?
    Ms. Echo-Hawk. So our original research in 2018, we 
actually took a look at media and found that media not only was 
less likely to report the murders of native women, but if they 
did, they would do things like show their bodies, or instead of 
showing a picture of them with their families, they would show 
a mugshot for example, so it also creates stigma and prejudice. 
So we have been working actively, and the Native American 
Journalist Association has been doing an incredible job on 
working with media, and we have seen some significant changes, 
but more needs to be done.
    When it comes to the non-actions of the Department of 
Justice, specifically for the urban Indian population, is that 
one of the things that is supposed to be done under the Not 
Invisible Act is focused on the data. So we do know that 
6,000--I actually think it is probably double if not 
quadruple--it is just the data doesn't exist. And so under the 
Not Invisible Act, the Department of Justice is supposed to be 
working towards capturing that data, and they have not worked 
with the urban law enforcement. Seventy-eight percent of native 
people live off reservation and village lands in urban areas, 
and it makes us invisible. So the Not Invisible Act, I love the 
name, but we are completely still invisible.
    So the Urban Indian Health Institute is the only 
organization that I am aware of in the Nation that currently 
works with law enforcement and has been redoing and working 
with them on fixing their data systems. But why are we doing 
the work of the Department of Justice under the little bit, the 
$2 million that I receive from the Indian Health Service as a 
tribal epidemiology center? And the lack of accountability and 
the lack of them investing in and ensuring that those living 
off reservation actually receive the benefits of Savanna's Act 
and Not Invisible act.
    I am excited to see the recommendations that came out from 
the Not Invisible Commission, and some of the answers from the 
Department of Interior are definitely lacking, but we need to 
see what happens for those of us who are living off 
reservation. I am a tribal member that goes back and forth to 
both my homelands in Alaska and in Oklahoma, and I deserve 
safety regardless of where I am.
    Mr. Simpson. Absolutely. Thank you. Ms. Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. Yep. Thank you, and thank you both for your 
passion on the issue and the work that you have been doing for 
so long, but also being here today and providing us with so 
many important facts. And I really appreciate the chair's 
decision to hold the hearing. I think it will be very 
impactful, and I hope that we will see some level of change 
going forward from that, so thank you for the work that you 
have been doing. And, Chair Johnstone, thank you. I appreciate 
and feel sympathetic towards the reaction that you had hearing 
about this because everyone has a family story, and----
    Mr. Johnstone. I didn't know it was going to happen.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah. It is not easy when those moments 
happen. But also thank you for the work you have been doing 
with natural resources and salmon and for the challenges that 
your community has in relocating. I hope we are really able to 
put more focus on that going into the future and how we support 
those tribes that have to move and have natural resource issues 
to deal with. So thank you for being here and talking to us 
about that issue.
    Mr. Johnstone. I appreciate that. I do live in Taholah, 
although I am with the Northwest Indian Fish Commission on this 
part of it. But I worked extensively 20 years on the school 
board to get our children out of the tsunami and flood zone, 
and now we are, through the State of Washington, their 
resources, number one on their list to move us, our little ones 
through high school up above that elevation level. So I 
appreciate that.
    Ms. Pingree. That is great. Thanks. I yield back.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Ellzey.
    Mr. Ellzey. Thank you both for being here. Abigail, thank 
you for your passionate testimony today. We could spend all day 
talking about this, about the data, but I would love to get 
with you, get my office with you so I can learn more about this 
and so hopefully we can put an end to this epidemic at some 
point. And at least, as you said, Mr. Chairman, only recently 
with popular media, I think probably with, arguably, 
``Yellowstone,'' did anybody know that this was kind of an 
issue, at least in the population writ large.
    And when we talk about suicide and hopelessness, all those 
things go together. So if you feel isolated and hopeless that 
there is no law enforcement, that nobody cares about your 
people, nobody cares about your women, then it leads to 
desperation and drug abuse and fentanyl use until you die or 
suicide, so they are all linked together. They are all linked, 
so I need to learn more, and I want to work with you to do 
that. And, Esther, your passionate testimony as well, you are a 
force of nature, so be out there spreading that word. I am 
going to be here for a long time on this committee working with 
the chairman and everybody here. So this is not a left or 
right, Republican or Democrat. This is an American issue, and 
so we care.
    Ms. Echo-Hawk. Thank you so much, and we look forward to 
working with your office. I think about when I first walked 
into the doors of the Seattle Indian Health Board, I was a 
young person who was pregnant, who had been experiencing 
suicidality since the age of 9 years old. And my very first 
counselor, not at Seattle Indian Health Board, but elsewhere, I 
made her cry. I comforted her at the end of it. And that is one 
thing that we have found in our research is that there are not 
enough behavioral health specialists who understand the unique 
circumstances of a father being told like me, we are not going 
to investigate your daughter's rape because she is just an 
Indian girl. What happens to that father, and what happens to 
that daughter?
    And I knew when I walked in the doors of the Seattle Indian 
Health Board, like all of our urban Indian health programs, 
that I was supported, loved, and I had culturally-based 
services, even though they were limited, around me. And so that 
is what we are doing at the Indian Health Service for all of us 
funded in the I/T/U system of care. How do we ensure we get the 
appropriate resources?
    And when it comes to law enforcement, I get to work with 
law enforcement across the country. They want to know. We have 
so many good law enforcement who are not getting the resources 
to understand how to address this crisis, and that is the 
failure of the Department of Justice.
    Mr. Ellzey. Thank you, and I just want to add to it, I want 
to make it clear that I wasn't trying to refer to anything 
about ``Yellowstone'' or anything. I don't have any tribes in 
my district, but I am proud to be on this committee and learn 
about these problems because the human trafficking issue in 
this country is a crisis. It is an epidemic. I just need to 
learn more, and so I can't wait to work with you.
    Ms. Echo-Hawk. I look forward to it.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Congressman. Ms. McCollum.
    Ms. McCollum. Thank you. Back in the late 90s, there were 
stories of women missing in Duluth, indigenous women. Nobody 
really understood. Well, maybe they just left. It was a bad 
situation at home. And when I got on this committee and learned 
that 84 percent of my Native-American sisters will experience 
sexual violence, that was mind blowing. And then when we first 
started visiting, and you might remember this, Mr. Chair, with 
Mr. Cole, some of the tribes, we were talking about the backlog 
of rape kits, how there weren't rape kits available. No city, 
no county, no State in this country would allow that to happen. 
So then we were going to fix that, and then finally, because of 
hard work of tribal leaders, tribal women, we started hearing 
about what we needed to do nationally. So New Mexico and 
Washington State are two of the States that have the highest 
numbers. My State in Minnesota has a pretty high number, but we 
are not sure what that number is. Is it 27, is it 54 between 
2012 and 2020? So we don't even know in 8 or 10 years what the 
real number is.
    So we took action, but the reason why we took action in 
Minnesota is our lieutenant governor, member of White Earth, 
and having three members tribally-enrolled women in our 
legislature who had allies, who just didn't know how to lead on 
it. We were the first State in 2021 to put together a State 
task force on it. We are trying to get it resourced, but with 
all the stories that we heard about counties and cities and the 
Feds not working together on what happens on reservations, 
there is so much more work to be done. So thank you for 
bringing it up. And when you meet families and when you meet 
victims, it changes your life. It makes you mad, but then it 
makes you determined, and I know you said you were mad, but I 
could hear the determination. Thank you for your testimony.
    Mr. Capoeman. Thank you so much, and we continue to be so 
grateful for the work of Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan and 
the team in Minnesota who have really set up an example of what 
it could look like for a State to take action, and the data 
issues continue to be a problem there, which we continue to 
consult with them on. And my organization, the Urban Indian 
Health Institute, has funded both tribal communities and urban 
Indian communities in Minnesota to specifically take action on 
gathering data appropriately.
    So again, we are working to do the work of the Department 
of Justice that they are supposed to do under the Not Invisible 
Act. And like you said, I am angry, and angry can be a very 
good emotion when utilized appropriately. We have to be 
effective, and that is what is lacking in the Federal response 
right now.
    Ms. McCollum. So we are raising awareness with license 
plates now, and the money is going to go back into helping 
address this crisis. And if you would, because I think you will 
be more eloquent at it than I would explain. We have amber 
alerts now, too, in Minnesota. If you would explain the red 
hand on the mouth.
    Ms. Echo-Hawk. So actually that brings up, and this is in 
my testimony, the FCC has put forward a proposal to establish 
what they are calling an endangered persons alert system based 
on what we did in Washington State, which is what we call the 
red alerts. It was then used as an example. Now in the State of 
California they have feather alerts, similar to the Amber 
Alert, our silver alert. So when indigenous person goes 
missing, the screens that we have, it pops up and we have 
actually seen about 75 percent success rate in utilizing those.
    So the red hand across the face was started by a young 
person who was running on behalf of indigenous peoples. She was 
in California, and it represents both the silencing of our 
people, and for many different tribes it is different. So for 
Pawnees, our first color is the color of prayer. So I see 
prayer in it, but I also see the blood of those who have been 
silenced. And so the red hand allows us to, again, use 
symbolism, which we do see in the media today and has really 
helped with raising awareness of not only invisibility but also 
the strength of our people because the one thing we can't ever 
leave behind is the fact that despite all of this, we are still 
here. We are still vibrant, we are still building strong, 
beautiful tribal communities, urban and rural, and we will 
continue to do so. However, we shouldn't have to do it under 
such levels of injustice.
    And that red hand is one of the ways for us to raise that 
awareness and push it forward, and it is also an opportunity 
for all of you to show that you stand with us. I would love to 
walk into all of your offices and to see one of those red hands 
which we have in bumper stickers. I can get it for you. I would 
love to see them in your offices as a way and as a recognition 
that you stand with us.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Edwards.
    Mr. Edwards. Thank you Mr. Chair. Again, I would like to 
express my appreciation to Mr. Johnstone and you, Ms. Echo-
Hawk. To tag on to many of the things that I were already said, 
I think you are going to find a great deal of folks up here 
care. It is unfortunate that you are dealing with issues that 
are somewhat hidden to the rest of us. And so it is important 
that you are here to help raise awareness and to continue to be 
here to help raise awareness. And I ask you to not allow us to 
let your issues get lost in the noise, of which there is so 
much up here, so thank you for being here, and please make sure 
my office gets a red hand, too. This guy over here will take it 
back to the office for you. Thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Kilmer.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you both for 
being with us. Chairman Johnstone, thank you for your words. I 
am conscious of the fact that, hopefully, a year from now when 
you come to testify, the statue of your predecessor, Billy 
Frank, Jr., will be in Statuary Hall--is a really big deal. 
And, Chairman, I know you knew Chairman Frank, and I know that 
Ed would want to invite you out to Taholah, too, which is just 
a beautiful part of the world but also incredibly vulnerable 
just to flooding and some real challenges being on the coast.
    Ed, one of the things I was hoping you would just speak to 
briefly as we talk about the importance of salmon recovery and 
protecting treaty rights is that Puget Sound Geographic 
program. Would you just say a few words about why that program 
matters?
    Mr. Johnstone. Thank you, Congressman. It is critically 
important to us. The geographic program and the salmon recovery 
in Puget Sound is that effort that kind of coalesces everything 
and gives funding to tribes to do the work that is necessary on 
the habitat, and so much of what we do is threaded in. It is 
all threaded our spider web together, and that is a critical 
piece, and we have been continuing to grow that program, and we 
received extensive funds that supplemented BIL and IRA. We 
don't want them to supplant, I guess. What we are after is 
continued support of that geographic program. So many critical 
areas of the work are done through that geographic program. It 
is really critical for us.
    Mr. Kilmer. Yeah. Abigail, thank you for being here and for 
your good words. I can't remember if it was the last time I met 
with you or the time before, you talked about access to 
behavioral health information and the fact that tribes and 
tribal epidemiology centers don't have access to data. And 
since you are with us, I was hoping you might just say a word 
or two about how having access to tribes' specific behavioral 
health data might actually help in terms of the provision of 
care improving mental health and substance services.
    Ms. Echo-Hawk. Yeah. This is really something that I think 
rose to national prominence where people actually became aware 
for the very first time, although we have always been aware, 
that tribes and tribal epidemiology centers don't have access 
to the data, despite it being tribal public health authorities 
under the Affordable Health Care Act. We are supposed to have 
access to data, and we don't. And during COVID-19, we couldn't 
get access to simple things like infection rates within the 
communities, and out of that, the further conversations related 
to behavioral health and other types of data.
    If we don't have access to the information, how do we make 
good data-driven decisions and get information to policymakers 
for the appropriate programs and response? The access to that 
information is also, again, under Federal law, and tribes 
should have access to their information. They need to ensure 
they have the information they need on their tribal members in 
order to, again, understand the impacts of the ongoing trauma, 
the need for where we need to invest programs, and where we 
have gaps and opportunities. And so access to that data is one 
of the things that the tribes and tribal epidemiology centers 
have been fighting for.
    There was a Government Office of Accountability report that 
came out that recognized that HHS was severely lacking in this. 
We have seen some response. It has been minimal, and we 
definitely need to see more. I would definitely advise your 
offices to take a look at both the report and the response that 
came from HHS because the tribal communities and the tribal 
epidemiology centers, we are asking for more. We need access to 
that information so that we can come to you with what is needed 
within our communities. And also, we know all of our tribes as 
has been illustrated today. We are doing incredible work in the 
urban and tribal settings, and we want to be able to tell you 
about the successes, but when we don't have the data, we can't 
tell you that either.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you. I yield back, Chairman. Thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, and, again, thank you both for 
being here today and for your testimony. It is very impactful 
on us.
    Mr. Johnstone. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I heard Congressman 
Kilmer, I think in the previous panel, with an invite to the 
Pacific Northwest, and we would be happy to host and show you 
where those critical dollars that flow throughout our funding 
requests are applied. And we can get you well informed of what 
that means and where we are going, and our successes and what 
our challenges are. So with that, thank you very much.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you.
    Ms. Echo-Hawk. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Simpson. You bet. Thank you. And our 24th panel, which 
is the last panel that we have scheduled: Nikolaus Lewis, Cody 
Desautel. Okay. Corinne Sams and Michael Rondeau. Do you care 
which order you go in? If not, I have got Nikolaus first.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

              NORTHWEST PORTLAND AREA INDIAN HEALTH BOARD


                                WITNESS

NIKOLAUS LEWIS, CHAIRMAN, NORTHWEST PORTLAND AREA INDIAN HEALTH BOARD
    Mr. Lewis. Chairman Simpson, Ranking Member Pingree, and 
members of the subcommittee, I would like to thank you for 
holding the American Indian/Alaskan Native public witness 
hearing and for inviting the Northwest Portland Area Indian 
Health Board to testify on the Indian Health Service budget. I 
thank this committee for its continued support for our Indian 
Health Service funding that we have received.
    My name is Nikolaus Lewis. I am a member of the Lummi 
Nation in Washington State where I have the honor to serve my 
people as a council member on the Lummi Indian Business 
Council. I also serve as the chairman of the Northwest Portland 
area Indian Health Board, and I would like to say that today in 
this testimony is an opportunity for this subcommittee to take 
action that can save lives.
    Overdoses have become too common in our tribal communities. 
We have seen parents have to bury their children, children have 
to bury their parents. We have seen in our tribal communities, 
children removed due to exposure in their homes at higher rates 
when compared to other communities. These losses are creating 
more trauma in our families and in our communities. With your 
commitment to significant increases in funding to the fiscal 
year 2025 budget to address the fentanyl crisis, this committee 
will be honoring the loss of our loved ones and helping us all 
heal.
    In August, 2023, the Northwest Portland Area Indian Health 
Board helped lead and spearhead a national tribal opiate 
summit. That summit brought together over 1,000 tribal leaders, 
frontline workers, and community members impacted by opiates. 
Families shared their heartbreaking stories of loss. Former 
users shared their stories of resilience and healing. Frontline 
workers also spoke to the support that they need. Tribal 
leaders also voiced their need for effective action. I wanted 
to bring some of those requests to the subcommittees, such as 
increased substance use and mental health funding, to help us 
address the underlying trauma in our communities.
    Unaddressed trauma will continue to pass down from 
generation to generation until somebody is ready to feel it. 
Many in our communities are sadly not ready to feel it. They 
avoid this pain through continued substance use, and the cycle 
continues. The American Indian and Alaska Natives have the 
highest rate of suicide of any minority group within the U.S., 
as well as high rates of substance use disorder in both illicit 
drugs and alcohol use. We must stop this cycle and provide 
opportunities for our community to heal. With increased alcohol 
and substance use funding, there can be more focus on 
prevention. It is critical for the future of our health and our 
communities, from our children to our elders, that prevention 
is funded.
    In the Northwest, we have five Washington tribes that have 
committed to implementing the Icelandic Prevention Model, which 
is a model that is based on long-term systemic change that has 
been proven to heal the community. This model contributes 
towards revitalizing our communities to being healthy like they 
once were. The Portland area tribes have long recognized that 
culture and traditional activities, including language, are 
good prevention. As one of our young emerging leaders from the 
Northwest, who is here with me today, has said, being on the 
water and in the canoe with her family throughout her youth 
kept her focused on her culture and in her community, but, more 
importantly, out of trouble. This is the type of prevention 
activity that the Icelandic Prevention Model supports, and that 
with increased Indian Health Service funding, could also 
support.
    In the fiscal year 2025 budget, we request that this 
subcommittee fund the alcohol and substance use abuse account 
at $4.86 billion and mental health at $4.46 billion. One of the 
biggest barriers to treating our tribal members in our 
community is the lack of facilities. For the fiscal year 2025, 
the Portland area tribes request the subcommittee allocate $5 
billion for treatment, facility construction, dual diagnosis 
facilities, and medically-supervised withdrawal detoxification 
for adults and our youth. Our final request as to behavioral 
health is a repeated request, and that we again ask that all 
behavioral health grant funding opportunities, including opiate 
funding, have the option for tribes to receive funding through 
their compacts and contracts.
    Lastly, we would like to ask the subcommittee to ensure 
that appropriations for the Indian Health Service subaccounts 
are never rescinded. This is of particular concern for our 
tribes in the Northwest related to unobligated purchase and 
referred care funding. This impacts our funding to support our 
first regional specialty referral center, and we request that 
this subcommittee do everything it possibly can to ensure that 
this funding is not rescinded to the balance of the debt of the 
Federal Government.
    Thank you to the committee for allowing me a moment to 
testify, and I invite you to visit us more and learn about the 
utilization of how we do this funding and how we serve our 
communities. I look forward to working with this subcommittee 
on that work going forward.
    [The statement of Mr. Lewis follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Nikolaus. Cody.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

                       INTERTRIBAL TIMER COUNCIL


                                WITNESS

CODY DESAUTEL, PRESIDENT, INTERTRIBAL TIMER COUNCIL
    Mr. Desautel. Thank you, Chair Simpson, members of the 
committee. I am Cody Desautel, president of the Intertribal 
Timber Council and executive director for the Colville Tribe. 
On behalf of the ITC and its 60 member tribes, we thank you for 
the opportunity to provide testimony today on the 
subcommittee's fiscal year 2025 spending bill.
    I would like to start by sharing some statistics from the 
recently completed IFMAT report. Every 10 years, an independent 
team of scientists review the management of tribal forests and 
present their report to Congress as mandated by statute. IFMAT 
IV noted that harvest levels have dropped from 730 million 
board feet in 1991 to 342 million board feet in 2019, which was 
the lowest harvest level since the Depression era. Over that 
same time, tribal forest acres have increased from $15.6 
million acres to $19.3 million acres.
    The 2023 IFAT report and those that preceded it documents 
the significant and persistent inequity of Federal funding for 
Indian forest management versus other Federal forests. Based on 
the IFMAT findings, the U.S. Forest Service is funded at almost 
3-and-a-half times per acre what the BIA receives for forestry 
and fire funding. The comparison to a Western Oregon BLM lands 
is worse, with BLM receiving forest management funding that is 
14 times more per acre than BIA receives for tribes.
    Also, much of the BIA funding is competitive, which makes 
it difficult with funding uncertainty to build the capacity 
needed within tribal programs to treat landscapes at the scale 
needed. The IFMAT report documented the BIA forestry funding in 
real terms has declined by almost 36 percent over the last 30 
years when considering inflation and the increased trust acres 
under BIA management. The result of this inequity is 
catastrophic to Indian communities. The IFMAT report found 
limited funding for BIA for forest management resulted in $400 
million in foregone timber revenue to tribes between 2010 and 
2019, which could have provided essential social, educational 
and public safety services to some of the most vulnerable 
Americans.
    In addition, uncharacteristic wildfires have caused 
additional unquantified losses to timber, wildlife, aquatic, 
and cultural resources. The Colville Tribe, for example, has 
lost over a billion board feet of timber since 2015 with a 
current market value of approximately half a billion dollars. 
The IFMAT report found that to reach budget parity between BIA, 
the National Forest System, and BLM forests, an additional $96 
million per year would be needed for BIA forestry and $42 
million in additional wildfire funding.
    Unfortunately, the now enacted 2024 Consolidated 
Appropriations Act reduced BIA's trust and natural resource 
management appropriations by nearly $11 million from the fiscal 
year 2023-enacted level. That reduction includes a $3.1 million 
cut to BIA forestry, bringing funding down to $62 million 
annually. For comparison, the BLM was appropriated $142 million 
for the Wild Horse and Burro Program in 2024, more than twice 
of what all Indian Country gets for forest management.
    So our recommendations for the fiscal year 2025 budget, for 
BIA forestry, in light of the findings of the IFMAT report, the 
ITC requests that this committee make a historic decision to 
fund Indian trust forests on parity with the Forest Service and 
BLM funding levels. This would require an increase in base BIA 
forestry appropriations by $96 million for a total of 
approximately $162 million. For the DOI Office of Wildland Fire 
Management, the ITC requests preparedness be funded at the 
IFMAT--at recommended levels as well, increasing current 
funding levels by $42 million to bring parity with other 
Federal forest management agencies. ITC would also request that 
the Department of Interior fuels and burned area rehab budgets 
be returned to fiscal year 2023 levels, an increase of $33 
million for fuels and $10 million for fire rehab from 2024. 
Another issue that remains unresolved is the inclusion of 
tribal firefighters in the wildland firefighter compensation 
benefits currently available for Federal employees. I urge this 
committee to work with the administration to identify and fund 
a mechanism that respects the role of tribal firefighters 
performing Federal firefighting functions under 638 contracts.
    In closing, I want to thank Congress for the expanded 
management authorities to promote tribal co-stewardship and 
management on adjacent Federal lands. However, without adequate 
funding and staffing to support tribal programs, it will be 
challenging for tribes to build and maintain the capacity 
needed to both take advantage of those co-stewardship 
opportunities and accomplish their management goals on tribal 
land. Thank you, and I stand ready to answer any questions you 
might have.
    [The statement of Mr. Desautel follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Cody. Corinne.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

              COLUMBIA RIVER INTER-TRIBAL FISH COMMISSION


                                WITNESS

CORINNE SAMS, CHAIRWOMAN, COLUMBIA RIVER INTER-TRIBAL FISH COMMISSION
    Ms. Sams. [Speaking native language.] Good afternoon, Chair 
Simpson and members of the subcommittee. I am honored to appear 
before you today as a leader of the Columbia River Treaty 
Tribes. My name is Corrine Sams, and I have the privilege of 
serving as the chair of the Columbia River Intertribal Fish 
Commission. I also am an elected member of the Confederated 
Tribes, the Umatilla Indian Reservation board of trustees. Our 
tribes have called the Columbia River Basin our home since time 
immemorial. The salmon, lamprey and other first foods found 
there are sacred to us. They are the lifeblood of our culture 
and way of life.
    For thousands of years, we have been the stewards of these 
fish populations, and our habitats depend on them. However, the 
development of the American West significantly impact these 
fish and altered the ecosystem they depend on. Today, the once 
abundant runs are a shadow of their former numbers. Twelve 
salmon and steelhead populations are listed as endangered. 
Pacific lamprey and other cultural important fish have declined 
95 percent. This trajectory threatens our culture, heritage, 
and identity. This is why the rights protection and habitat 
restoration work we carry out is so vital.
    With this committee's support, we can continue our efforts 
to halt this decline and breathe new life into fish runs that 
are central to our tribal cultures, the region's economy, and 
the ecosystems of the Pacific Northwest. I come before you with 
a suite of strategic funding requests under BIA's rights 
protection implementation programs. For over 4 decades, Federal 
investments through the programs have helped implement 
effective tribal self-regulated and co-management systems, 
provide cultural and conservative and conservation enforcement, 
and assist in our tribal fisheries and habitat restoration 
efforts. And we thank Congress for the long-term investment in 
protecting our treaty-reserved rights and the commitment in 
restoring and protecting our salmon.
    I would like to highlight several current and developing 
needs required in order to fulfill responsibilities to our 
tribes and resources. They fall into three categories, 
fisheries and resource co-management support, infrastructure 
and safety needs of tribal fisheries, and preparing for the 
future.
    Fisheries co-management responsibilities lie at the core of 
our work. We participate in salmon and land use actions and 
conduct scientific monitoring, research, and policy development 
that guide on-the-ground actions. This effort is essential to 
the meaningful and effective tribal co-management and also 
provides critical data that are needed for our Federal and 
State partners. Our role and responsibilities have grown over 
the years, like Basin Fish Accords, yet capacity funding 
through the Columbia River fisheries management distribution 
has not kept the pace. We support the President's budget 
request of the $6.292 million for this item.
    We also participate in the Pacific Salmon Treaty and the 
Columbia River Treaty process between the United States and 
Canada because our co-management responsibilities do not stop 
at the border. The Pacific Salmon Treaty allocates West Coast 
stocks to assure equitable sharing between all parties, and the 
Columbia River Treaty deals with the transboundary issues of 
water and river management between the two Nations. States 
receive funding to participate in the Pacific Salmon Treaty 
through the State Department while tribes participate through 
the RPI funding.
    In conjunction with the Western Washington Treaty tribes, 
we support the President's request for the $7.82 million. We 
also request support for our leadership roles in both Columbia 
River Treaty, modernized talks, and Pacific Salmon Treaty. We 
would like to get moving on infrastructure needs and safety for 
our tribal fishers. These are specifically the 31 fishing 
access sites along the Columbia River. These are federally 
owned, and these sites have a higher anticipated use leading to 
more maintenance issues, housing scarcity, and law enforcement 
needs. These needs are funded through RPI distribution, and we 
support the President's request of the $1.72 million operations 
and maintenance and the $2.5 million for the Public Law 116-99 
construction, and the $1.166 million law enforcement.
    Last, we would like to think to the future. We cannot 
ignore the growing impact of climate change. Our tribes are 
placed-based people with deep connections to our geography and 
ecosystems. With the climate change, it will impact our culture 
and way of life. Funding is urgently needed. The BIA budget 
includes a climate resiliency sub-activity. We support 
President Biden's request of the $48.837 million to fund this 
very important work for Indian Country. Ending on our note of 
positivity, we want to emphasize the importance to carry out 
our youth programs and support the Biden's request of the 
$555,000 for our youth initiative programs. We would like to 
inspire our youth and our next generation to continue this 
work. This is our ancestral obligation.
    This is serious work, and the partnership between the 
tribes and the Federal Government benefits us both, and I hope 
working together can lead us to leave Mother Earth in a better 
place for all of our children. Thank you for your time and 
consideration.
    [The statement of Ms. Sams follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Corinne. Michael.
                              ----------                              

                                            Wednesday, May 8, 2024.

               COW CREEK BAND OF UMPQUA TRIBE OF INDIANS


                                WITNESS

MICHAEL RONDEAU, CEO, COW CREEK BAND OF UMPQUA TRIBE OF INDIANS
    Mr. Rondeau. Thank you, Chairman Simpson and the committee. 
I appreciate the opportunity to speak before you. My name is 
Michael Rondeau, and I am the chief executive for my tribe, the 
Cow Creek Band of Umpqua Tribe of Indians. We are a tribe of 
almost 2,000 tribal members. Most of our people live in 
Southern Oregon in our ancestral territory.
    The tribe provides many services to our tribal members, 
including healthcare, housing, education, job assistance and 
vocational training, behavioral healthcare, as well as a food 
pantry for those in need. The tribe also provides healthcare 
and housing to nontribal members in our community through our 
health clinics and rental housing. Our Land and Natural 
Resource Department oversee the forest lands and regulate the 
practices of our traditional lifeways of hunting, fishing, and 
gathering traditional food sources. We are extremely proud of 
the hard work that we have done to build a strong tribal 
government that strives every day to provide vital services to 
our tribal members.
    I am here to discuss three of our most important 
priorities, which are land into trust, law enforcement, 
funding, and wildland fire suppression. I will probably just 
get to the first one because of time limits, but I understand 
that you heard from Chairman Attebery yesterday from the Karuk 
Tribe, and I am echoing his testimony on lands into trust.
    The Biden administration's policies of taking land into 
trust on behalf of the tribe is, on the surface, an admirable 
policy goal and one that Cow Creek generally supports. However, 
we strongly believe that no dollars should be appropriated to 
take lands into trust for off-reservation casinos where a tribe 
has absolutely no academically recognized ancestral or cultural 
tie to the land they seek to have taken into trust. Allowing 
tribes to disrupt historical kinship relationships with our 
homelands by doing an end-around of the law is not something 
that the Department of Interior should be allowed to spend 
taxpayer dollars on.
    There is one such off-reservation gaming project in 
Southern Oregon under consideration by the Interior Department, 
which would cause catastrophic harm to at least five other 
tribes in the area in both Oregon and California. And in a two-
State politically conservative rural area within two 
politically liberal states, this issue has managed to bring 
together an unusual broad bipartisan coalition of liberal and 
conservative voices in opposition. This off-reservation casino 
has been opposed by 28 current and former members of Congress, 
including the congressmen from Southern Oregon and Northern 
California, and all four of our senators representing Oregon 
and California. Additionally, this casino has been opposed by 
the current governor of Oregon and four governors prior, and 
the project was rightfully and legally rejected by the last 
administration.
    The casino's proponents have presented their efforts as a 
zero sum game, only hurting our members in order to hurt 
theirs, but the facts show a very different story. Their 
proposed casino has been opposed by over 60 tribes, and my 
tribe, the Cow Creek, is among the five tribes who will be 
directly harmed, causing a profound disruption in our ability 
to provide programs and services to our members if this project 
is allowed to proceed. Five tribes' members would face cuts in 
healthcare, housing, education, and employment assistance 
programs. Our people would suffer, and these reductions in 
tribal services would put further drain on public services 
offered by the States and counties.
    For some inarticulate reason, the administration has 
revived this project, despite the fact that the proponent tribe 
has absolutely no ancestral ties or cultural ties to the area. 
That tribe is seeking to develop a second casino nearly 170 
miles from its reservation in other tribal people's homelands. 
Further, the administration has been allowing this project to 
proceed, despite the fact that unlike virtually all other 
casino proposals that operate under a two-part determination, 
here the proponents are being allowed to proceed under a novel 
path that completely cuts the governor's say out of the 
process. We ask the committee appropriate no funds for any off-
reservation trust application for gaming where a tribe has no 
ancestral or cultural ties to the land being considered for the 
trust status, and where the governor of that State they 
represent will be wholly cut out of the process.
    Thank you again for allowing me to testify before you.
    [The statement of Mr. Rondeau follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Michael, and thank you all for 
being here today and for your testimony. Mr. Kilmer.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Chairman, and thanks, all, for being 
with us. Chair Sams, I was hoping you could just say a few more 
words about the BIA rights protection funding and what it means 
when adequate funding is provided and what it means when it is 
not.
    Ms. Sams. So when the hydro systems went in, it flooded out 
many of our villages where our people lived and had access to 
fishing grounds, and since then, we have revitalized it with 
the treaty fishing access sites. And it is imperative that our 
fishers have a healthy and clean place to live and to harvest 
fish and to be able to take care of those fish. And so it is 
essential to our ceremonial fishing needs so we have fish on 
our tables for the four member tribes.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you. Thanks each of you for coming. I 
appreciate you.
    Mr. Simpson. Mr. Edwards.
    Mr. Edwards. Thank you Mr. Chair. Again, thanks to all of 
you for being here. Ms. Sams, just a quick follow-up question. 
You had mentioned a fund proposed by President Biden of $48.5 
million. I believe that was for, I am going to call it climate 
litigation. You used another term. Can you remind me the name 
of that fund?
    Ms. Sams. Let me look. I am sorry. I am trying to find it. 
I am sorry.
    Mr. Edwards. That is okay. I will follow up another time. I 
just want to express my appreciation to each of you for----
    Ms. Sams. It is the tribal climate resiliency sub-activity, 
and it supported President Biden's request of $48.837 million.
    Mr. Edwards. Okay, $48.8. I am assuming that that is a fund 
that you would make application for grants. Is that right?
    Ms. Sams. I believe so.
    Mr. Edwards. What types of projects could we expect to see 
were you to be awarded grants out of that fund?
    Ms. Sams. I would assume water quality, potentially more 
studies on hydro systems, and I am not sure what else----
    Mr. Edwards. Okay.
    Ms. Sams [continuing]. But any information for follow-up, 
we can get to your office.
    Mr. Edwards. All right. I appreciate all of you being here. 
It is been very informative for me. I was explaining to a group 
earlier, I do have one tribe in my district, but the issues 
they face are materially different than any I have heard here 
today. In fact, they are in pretty good shape--don't tell them 
that I said that--compared to so many others out there, so 
thank you for being here.
    Mr. Simpson. Let me just ask one question, Michael. You 
mentioned during your testimony that the building of this 
casino would harm five tribes financially?
    Mr. Rondeau. Yes. Yes.
    Mr. Simpson. How exactly would that work?
    Mr. Rondeau. Well, we are located in a very rural area in 
Southern Oregon and Northern California. I can speak for my 
tribe based on the information that was submitted in the NEPA 
process with the other tribe. Our tribe would be impacted by 24 
percent of our revenues. We use our revenues because we have no 
tax base.
    Mr. Simpson. Now, how would that impact your revenue if 
someone else built a casino somewhere?
    Mr. Rondeau. Because of market share and----
    Mr. Simpson. Do you have a casino now?
    Mr. Rondeau. Yes.
    Mr. Simpson. Okay. I understand what you are saying now 
then.
    Mr. Rondeau. And this other tribe has a casino as well in 
an urban area.
    Mr. Simpson. Right.
    Mr. Rondeau. And this would be a second casino located in 
an area that would affect five other tribes in a very negative 
way.
    Mr. Simpson. I understand what you are saying now. I 
thought maybe you had meant that it was going to reduce funding 
from BIA or something like that, but that is not the case.
    Mr. Rondeau. No. No.
    Mr. Simpson. It is that you have a casino, and it is 
competition.
    Mr. Rondeau. Yeah.
    Mr. Simpson. And they would be building a casino where they 
traditionally have never been.
    Mr. Rondeau. Yes.
    Mr. Simpson. Okay. I understand.
    Mr. Rondeau. I am sorry. There are two processes for which 
to apply for trust. One of them is restored lands, which means 
that you have had some historical tie to it, and the other is a 
two-part determination that allows the governor to make a 
decision.
    Mr. Simpson. Right.
    Mr. Rondeau. And in this case, this is a restored lands 
claim for which they have no entitlement to.
    Mr. Simpson. Yeah. Thank you all for being here. It might 
seem to you like that it is not very important to us, but I 
will tell you, it is very important to us that you come. Even 
the 5 minutes we give you the talk and answer a few questions 
that we have, it informs us and gets us thinking because some 
of the things that we have discussed over the last 2 days, I 
will go home tonight and go, oh my God, how are we going to 
solve that, and that is what needs to be done. And we look 
forward to working with you as we put together this budget. And 
as I told someone earlier, we ain't going back. We are going to 
fix this, okay? Thank you all.
    This concludes our 2 days of hearings on American Indian 
and Alaska Native testimony on issues, so I thank you all for 
taking the time to join us today. We sincerely appreciate all 
of you coming to testify before our subcommittee.
    And with that, the committee stands adjourned.
    
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    
    
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