[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                        OVERSIGHT OF THE FEDERAL
                      EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                           NOVEMBER 19, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-137

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Accountability
  
 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 


                       Available on: govinfo.gov,
                         oversight.house.gov or
                             docs.house.gov
                             
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
57-442 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                                 
                             
                             
               COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY

                    JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman

Jim Jordan, Ohio                     Jamie Raskin, Maryland, Ranking 
Mike Turner, Ohio                        Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of 
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina            Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Michael Cloud, Texas                 Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia
Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Ro Khanna, California
Pete Sessions, Texas                 Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Katie Porter, California
Jake LaTurner, Kansas                Cori Bush, Missouri
Pat Fallon, Texas                    Shontel Brown, Ohio
Byron Donalds, Florida               Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Robert Garcia, California
William Timmons, South Carolina      Maxwell Frost, Florida
Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Greg Casar, Texas
Lisa McClain, Michigan               Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Dan Goldman, New York
Russell Fry, South Carolina          Jared Moskowitz, Florida
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Nick Langworthy, New York            Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Eric Burlison, Missouri
Mike Waltz, Florida

                                 ------ 
                                 
                       Mark Marin, Staff Director
       Jessica Donlon, Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel
                      Bill Womack, Senior Advisor
                          Alex Rankin, Counsel
                          Abby Salter, Counsel
                        Sloan McDonagh, Counsel
      Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5074

                  Julie Tagen, Minority Staff Director
                      Contact Number: 202-225-5051

                                 ------                                
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                                                                   Page

Hearing held on November 19, 2024................................     1

                               WITNESSES

                              ----------                              
The Honorable Deanne Criswell, Administrator, Federal Emergency 
  Management Agency
    Oral Statement...............................................     5

 Opening statements and the prepared statements for the witnesses 
  are available in the U.S. House of Representatives Repository 
  at: docs.house.gov.

                           INDEX OF DOCUMENTS

                              ----------                              
  * Statement for the Record; submitted by Rep. Connolly.

  * Article, NBCNews.com, ``Trump Admin Pulling Millions From 
  FEMA Disaster Relief''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.

  * Article, Grist, ``After the Flood''; submitted by Rep. Tlaib.

  * Article, Gateway Pundit, ``My Blood is Boiling Furious Elon 
  Musk Goes Off on FEMA''; submitted by Rep. Boebert.

  * FEMA Headlines; submitted by Rep. Boebert.

  * Article, New York Post, ``FEMA worker accused of telling 
  staff to skip Trump homes''; submitted by Rep. Donalds.

  * Article, Politico, ``Trump Initially Refused to give CA 
  Aid''; submitted by Rep. Frost.

  * Letter, November 19, 2024, to FEMA; submitted by Rep. 
  Higgins.

  * Article, CNN.com, ``Amid Bipartisan Praise for Biden 
  Hurricane Response, Trump Claims Reviews Negative''; submitted 
  by Rep. Raskin.

  * Article, The Washington Post, ``Biden Did Not Take FEMA 
  Relief Funds to Use on Migrants''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
                           INDEX OF DOCUMENTS

                              ----------                              

  * Article, CNN.com, ``DeSantis and Biden Speak on Storm 
  Recovery''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.

  * Article, Reuters, ``FEMA Funds Not Diverted to Migrants by 
  Biden Admin''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.

  * Article, The Hill, ``Kemp Praises Biden's Hurricane Helene 
  Response''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.

  * Article, Axios, ``Trump Reallocates $155M From FEMA Disaster 
  Relief to Fund ICE''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.

  * Press Release, FEMA, DHS Announces $210M of Additional Funds; 
  submitted by Rep. Raskin.

  * Article, The Daily Signal, ``Rotten To a Core - 5 Year FEMA 
  Vet Reveals''; submitted by Rep. Steube.

  * Letter, November 15, 2024, to FEMA; submitted by Rep. Steube.

  * Article, BridgeDetroit, ``Devastating floods leave Detroiters 
  with toxic mold''; submitted by Rep. Tlaib.

  * Questions for the Record: to Administrator Criswell; 
  submitted by Chairman Comer.

  * Questions for the Record: to Administrator Criswell; 
  submitted by Rep. Foxx.

  * Questions for the Record: to Administrator Criswell; 
  submitted by Rep. Donalds.

  * Questions for the Record: to Administrator Criswell; 
  submitted by Rep. Burchett.

The documents listed are available at: docs.house.gov.

 
                        OVERSIGHT OF THE FEDERAL
                      EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY

                              ----------                              


                       Tuesday, November 19, 2024

                     U.S. House of Representatives

               Committee on Oversight and Accountability

                                           Washington, D.C.

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:18 p.m., in 
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. James Comer 
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Comer, Jordan, Gosar, Foxx, 
Grothman, Cloud, Palmer, Higgins, Sessions, Mace, Fallon, 
Donalds, Timmons, Burchett, Greene, McClain, Boebert, Fry, 
Luna, Langworthy, Burlison, Raskin, Norton, Lynch, 
Krishnamoorthi, Mfume, Ocasio-Cortez, Porter, Brown, Stansbury, 
Frost, Lee, Crockett, Goldman, Moskowitz, Tlaib, and Pressley.
    Also present: Representatives Steube and McCormick.
    Chairman Comer. This hearing of the Committee on Oversight 
and Accountability will come to order. I want to welcome 
everyone here today. Sorry we are getting late. Votes extended 
about 15 minutes longer than they were supposed to.
    Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any 
time.
    I now recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening 
statement.
    Today marks our first hearing since the election in which 
President Trump won in a landslide. This summer, Ranking Member 
Raskin described Republicans as a ``shrinking, shriveling 
minority party. They are a cult of personality, and there are 
not many people who are buying the cult and dogma anymore.'' 
Yet, just 2 weeks ago, President Trump received historic 
support from Americans of all races, religions, and 
backgrounds. It is clear the American people are not buying 
what the Democrats and their allies and the media are selling 
anymore.
    For nearly a decade, Democrats, many of whom are in this 
room today, have demonized the millions of Americans who 
support President Trump. I think of the proud Americans in my 
district--good neighbors, citizens, and God-fearing 
individuals. They are tired of being called trash, cult 
followers, fascist, Nazis, and many other horrific names for 
simply loving their country and supporting President Trump. My 
constituents want the cost of living to stop skyrocketing, 
whether it is food, gas, heating their homes. They want the 
border sealed to stop the flow of illegals and criminal aliens 
coming to our communities, and they want to end the 
weaponization of government. Unfortunately, we have recently 
seen a disturbing example of this weaponization of government 
on full display.
    In the wake of Hurricane Milton, at least one FEMA official 
engaged in political discrimination against supporters of 
President Trump. This official ordered employees to 
discriminate against vulnerable Americans affected by a 
hurricane when they needed assistance the most. This same 
employee alleged on TV that this was not an isolated event, and 
that FEMA essentially treats the homes of President Trump 
supporters as if they were homes of people with vicious dogs. 
This is unacceptable. Americans demand accountability.
    Today's hearing provides Members of the Committee and the 
American people the opportunity to get answers about these 
troubling developments that have overshadowed FEMA's critical 
mission. While today's hearing will focus on FEMA, the issue at 
hand is part of a larger problem: the urgent need to hold the 
unelected, unaccountable Federal workforce accountable to the 
American people and the duly elected President of the United 
States. In his first term, President Trump faced not only open 
insubordination from Federal employees who refused to help 
implement his policies, but also subtler practices intended to 
thwart elements of his agenda. And we are already hearing 
through media reports that some Federal employees from DOD, 
EPA, and, of course, DOJ, are already plotting to thwart 
President Trump's agenda when he is sworn in as President in 
January. The current system does not have strong enough 
mechanisms to ensure accountability. The disciplinary system is 
run by and for civil servants to protect civil servants. 
President Trump has pledged to take action to bring 
accountability to the Federal workforce and ensure there are 
measures in place to appropriately deal with poor performers 
and those who actively resist implementing the policies of a 
duly elected President, and he will have strong allies in the 
Republican Members of this House Oversight Committee.
    Democrats claim President Trump is trying to politicize the 
civil service, but situations like the one at FEMA validate our 
concerns that it is already politicized. Under the Biden-Harris 
administration, the civil service has not only grown in size, 
but also in power, and this power is evident. Just ask the 
people in Highlands County, Florida. They needed help, but at 
least one FEMA official used her power to make help harder to 
get. We only know this because one whistleblower was brave 
enough to come forward, but others knew about this and said 
nothing, and FEMA leadership did not take action against its 
supervisor until the press exposed the discrimination. More 
importantly, FEMA officials did not immediately end the 
discrimination. Since being fired, the supervisor has made 
multiple media appearances claiming she was following direction 
from above and that this practice is widespread.
    So, the question is this: from FEMA's perspective, was her 
main offense not only saying the quiet part out loud, but that 
she put it in writing? Who knows how many victims of Florida 
were left out of rapid disaster relief response, and what about 
other areas of the country? How long has this gone on and 
where? It is not acceptable for anyone to threaten the life or 
safety of FEMA employees if FEMA does not protect its people, 
but this does not justify writing off a huge segment of the 
population. I am eager to hear from the Administrator today 
about the status of FEMA's disaster relief efforts, as well as 
how we can prevent further discrimination. I want to thank you, 
Administrator, for being here today, and I now yield to the 
Ranking Member for his opening statement.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and congratulations on 
your victory, and thank you for your magnanimous statement at 
the beginning. I know you are proud of the 4 million vote 
majority which the President-elect seems to have now, just as 
we were proud of the 7 million vote majority that Joe Biden had 
4 years ago. The difference, of course, is that we acknowledge 
the loss of our candidate in this election, and we are not 
involved in trying to overturn the election or the 
Constitution, but we accept the Constitution and we accept the 
victory of the President-elect.
    Now, thank you for calling this hearing today. As of last 
month, more than 300 Americans have lost their lives to the 
hurricanes. Millions of people across the Southeast have had 
their lives uprooted, their families displaced, and their 
communities ravaged by Hurricanes Helene and Milton. Friends of 
my family were forced from their home in Asheville, North 
Carolina, and they came to stay with us in Maryland for several 
weeks following this nightmare, and we closely tracked the 
recovery effort, which has been unceasing and determined, even 
though aid was still too slow in getting into some communities.
    FEMA is America's lifeline in disasters like these, 
coordinating rapid response and recovery efforts with state and 
local first responders and rescue agencies. In these 
hurricanes, FEMA deployed swiftly, providing survivors with 
temporary shelter, debris removal, and other emergency 
measures, including the $750 for serious needs assistance for 
individuals to get items like food, water, baby formula, and 
medicine. FEMA's disaster work is not conducted by a unitary 
force of full-time Federal Government employees, but rather, a 
dynamic team of emergency responders and agencies drawn from 
across the country, which includes Federal, state, and local 
workers, full-time and part-time employees and private 
contractors. Two of my own constituents, Montgomery County Fire 
and Rescue Service captains, Josh Kurland and Dave Hutchinson, 
went south with rescue teams to help communities hit by 
Hurricane Helene. FEMA workers from around America helped their 
fellow Americans get back on their feet after a disaster like 
this.
    Now even in the heat of the Presidential election, Mr. 
Chairman, FEMA's response won high praise from leaders across 
the political spectrum. Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin said, 
``I am incredibly appreciative of the rapid response and the 
cooperation from the team at FEMA.'' Florida Governor DeSantis 
said, ``Everything we have asked for from President Biden, he 
has approved,'' and our Florida colleague, Congresswoman Luna, 
said, ``As I am seeing, FEMA has been very helpful, and I have 
been in direct communication with them, and they are absolutely 
going to assist because President Biden has told them to do 
so.''
    So, we could be here today celebrating the workforce of 
22,000 FEMA workers, but instead we are invited to focus on one 
so-called intermittent employee in Florida whose team 
encountered what she called political hostility while 
canvassing door to door for FEMA in Florida. Thereupon, as I 
understand it, she made the judgment that her workers were 
unsafe, and she issued the order to her team not to go to any 
more houses in the neighborhood where there were Trump signs 
planted in the yard. This was a bad mistake, legally and 
constitutionally, which violated the core mission of FEMA and 
every Federal agency to work on behalf of all Americans. It is 
plainly wrong and divisive to use a Presidential campaign lawn 
sign as a proxy for someone's dangerousness.
    The Director of FEMA, who is with us today, Ms. Criswell, 
properly acted immediately within 36 hours of learning of the 
incident because this action was an egregious departure from 
the norms of nonpartisanship which must govern the conduct and 
the work of the Federal workforce. Federal workers have a duty 
to serve all Americans, regardless of their political 
identification. FEMA's prompt and unequivocal personnel action 
in this case is powerful evidence that the civil service system 
is working not only to deliver quality public service, but also 
to correct employee errors and ensure that the people whose 
homes were skipped, as in this case, receive outreach and 
assistance. And I understand that there were 20 homes that were 
skipped and then they were immediately addressed afterwards, 
but I want to ask about that.
    Now, none of this is to deny for a moment that in recent 
months, FEMA aid workers have been forced to work under a cloud 
of propaganda and lies concocted to erode public trust in FEMA. 
Because of this disinformation, many victims of hurricanes have 
rejected Federal assistance, and others have even harassed and 
threatened FEMA workers. As Republican Congressman Chuck 
Edwards, who represents Asheville, North Carolina, said, all 
the misinformation has been ``not just unhelpful, but it has 
been harmful.'' I agree with my Republican colleagues and 
Administrator Criswell. Federal agencies must serve all 
Americans, and that means the Federal workforce of nonpartisan 
professionals hired based on competence and merit. What is true 
of FEMA canvassers is of course true of the rest of the 
government. We need government for all the people, regardless 
of political viewpoint.
    President-elect Trump has promised to be a President for 
all Americans, and I hope he delivers on that, and if he falls 
short of it, I trust all my colleagues will hold him to it. In 
his first administration, President Trump all too often 
deliberately directed disaster aid based on the party politics 
of local leadership and past electoral performance, not the 
needs of the community and disaster survivors. In 2017, his 
Administration denied 99 percent of the aid that North 
Carolina's Democratic Governor requested as part of cleanup 
efforts after Hurricane Matthew. Also, in 2017 after Hurricane 
Maria, President Trump blocked the full release of emergency 
assistance to Puerto Rico that was appropriated by us in 
Congress due to his unfounded belief that the destruction and 
death toll had been inflated to make him look bad. In 2018, 
after California suffered the deadliest and most destructive 
wildfire in its history, President Trump initially refused to 
approve disaster aid because of the state's liberal Democratic 
leanings. He reportedly later changed his mind after his staff 
provided him data showing that there were more Trump voters in 
Orange County, California than there were in the entire state 
of Iowa.
    Now is the right time for all of us, Mr. Chairman, and I 
mean this, for all of us to agree that nobody in public office, 
no matter how high nor how low, should play partisan politics 
with disaster relief in the age of climate change. Thank you 
for convening today's hearing so we can stand together and 
reaffirm our commitment to the idea that government exists to 
serve all of our citizens and to commend the devoted Federal 
workers who work day in and day out to serve all of our people. 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. Without 
objection, Representative Steube of Florida and Representative 
McCormick of Georgia are waived onto the Committee for the 
purpose of questioning the witness at today's hearing.
    I am pleased now to introduce today's witness. Ms. Deanne 
Criswell has served as Administrator of the Federal Emergency 
Management Agency since 2021. She has spent much of her career 
in emergency management, having previously served as 
Commissioner of the New York City Emergency Management 
Department, as well as previous positions within FEMA, serving 
as leader of the Agency's National Incident Management 
Assistant Teams and as a Federal coordinating officer. Ms. 
Criswell served 21 years in the Colorado Air National Guard and 
is the veteran of two overseas tours.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), the witness will please 
stand and raise her right hand.
    Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are 
about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you, God?
    Administrator Criswell. I do.
    Chairman Comer. Let the record show that the witness 
answered in the affirmative. Thank you very much. We appreciate 
you being here today and look very forward to your testimony.
    Let me remind the witness that we have read your written 
statement and it will appear in the record. Please limit your 
oral statement to 5 minutes, but obviously you can speak 
whatever you need to say. We want to hear it. As a reminder, 
please press the button on the microphone in front of you so 
that is on and the Members can hear you. When you begin to 
speak, the light in front of you will turn green. After 4 
minutes, it will turn yellow. When the red light comes on, your 
5 minutes have expired, and we will ask that you try to wrap it 
up at that point.
    I now recognize the Administrator for her opening 
statement.

                      STATEMENT OF DEANNE CRISWELL

                             ADMINISTRATOR

                  FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY

    Administrator Criswell. Thank you. Chairman Comer, Ranking 
Member Raskin, and Members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify regarding FEMA's efforts in response to 
Hurricanes Helene and Milton. We value this Committee's 
legislative support and oversight of our Agency, and I look 
forward to our conversation today.
    On September 26, Hurricane Helene made landfall in Florida 
as a powerful and a fast-moving Category 4 storm with 
hurricane-force winds extending 40 miles and tropical storm 
force winds extending 310 miles from its center. Helene then 
entered Georgia as a Category 2 hurricane before becoming a 
powerful tropical storm that continued to release historic 
rainfall over already saturated soils as it marched through 
South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia. There 
were also impacts in West Virginia and Kentucky. Helene's 
powerful winds and flood waters altered landscapes and 
devastated communities in many places not accustomed to 
experiencing such storms. The destruction caused by Helene was 
catastrophic.
    Less than 2 weeks later, Hurricane Milton rapidly 
intensified into a Category 5 storm in the Gulf of Mexico. 
After making landfall in Florida as a Category 3, it moved 
across the state into the Atlantic, spurring the formation of 
tornadoes and leaving an overlapping trail of destruction in 
many communities still reeling from Hurricane Helene. Many of 
these same communities were still recovering from Hurricane 
Ian, Hurricane Idalia, and Hurricane Debbie, and our hearts 
have been heavy with the stories of the survivors we have 
encountered and talked to, people who have lost their loved 
ones, their homes, and their businesses. These two catastrophic 
storms led to the loss of over 200 lives and caused extensive 
damages to homes and neighborhoods across the impacted states. 
There was also widespread disruption of critical services 
across Southeastern United States, including the obstruction of 
transportation routes which isolated many homes and 
communities.
    FEMA's mission statement is a simple one spelled out in 
seven powerful words: helping people before, during, and after 
disasters. And in my written testimony, I have provided a 
detailed account of FEMA's preparation, our pre-positioning of 
assets and personnel, and our coordination with other Federal 
agencies in support of our state, our local, and our tribal 
partners. I have described in detail how FEMA responded to 
these two storms across eight states, mobilizing the full 
weight of the Federal Government to help in impacted areas that 
were not accustomed to this kind of disaster, prioritizing 
search and rescue efforts, reopening roads to reconnect hard-
to-reach areas, delivering essential food, water, and other 
supplies to residents, and restoring critical infrastructure. 
And I have described how FEMA is leading recovery efforts in 
these impacted states, doing everything we can to cut through 
red tape and expedite assistance to survivors.
    This has been a challenging time for our workforce of over 
22,000 dedicated, hardworking people, many of whom were 
impacted by the storms themselves and delayed their personal 
and family recovery to meet our mission needs and respond to 
the disaster. Our workforce persevered through all of these 
challenges that I have just described, and they also persevered 
through a difficult security environment generated by 
misinformation about FEMA's work, which was spread through 
social media. Our goal is to help all people obtain all of the 
assistance that they need and that they are eligible for under 
the law, and any of the assistance and any misinformation that 
was out there was making this much more difficult for them to 
get this needed assistance. I greatly appreciate the voices and 
the support from Congress from both sides of the aisle during 
this event who attested to the work that FEMA was doing on the 
ground.
    So, I was very concerned when I learned a FEMA employee had 
given instructions to a Disaster Survivor Assistance Team that 
were completely at odds with FEMA's mission. A critical 
function of these teams is to go door-to-door to meet with 
disaster survivors, to make them aware of FEMA programs that 
are available for them, and to help them register for needed 
assistance. This employee wrote to about 11 staff members under 
her supervision that they should ``avoid homes advertising 
Trump.'' My senior leadership team provided me with this visual 
evidence that the employee had, in fact, issued these 
instructions and they recommended that this employee be 
terminated, and I concurred and directed the termination of 
this employee. I released a statement that day, and I will 
repeat what I said to all of my employees and the American 
people: this type of behavior and action will not be tolerated 
at FEMA, and we will hold all people accountable if they 
violate our standards of conduct. I do not believe that this 
employee's actions are indicative of any widespread cultural 
problems at FEMA. FEMA, however, has taken appropriate action 
to ensure this matter is fully investigated, and I am committed 
to ensuring that nothing like this ever happens again. In the 
meantime, we have sent a new team to the field to contact all 
of the homes that had been skipped over at this employee's 
direction, and that work has been completed.
    Now, I know that this incident is on the minds of many 
members of this Committee and across America, and I will be 
happy to answer your questions on it. However, I also hope that 
we will be able to have a chance to discuss the great work that 
our workforce has been doing in response to hurricanes Helene 
and Milton, as well as the important challenges that lie ahead 
in the recovery effort.
    Thank you again for this opportunity to testify, Chairman. 
I look forward to your questions.
    Chairman Comer. Thank you very much. We will now begin with 
questions, and the Chair recognizes first the Member on ground 
zero of the last hurricane, Dr. Foxx from North Carolina.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to 
associate myself with your opening statement. Also, I want to 
thank the thousands of Americans who responded to the 
destruction of Helene in the North Carolina mountains by 
donating everything you can imagine to people there. Many 
tractor trailers of goods came from all over America. This 
response was wonderfully overwhelming. Unfortunately, our 
government agencies have not matched the care and compassion of 
average Americans.
    Ms. Criswell, I have the mission statement for FEMA here 
because I looked at it and saw what you have said in terms of 
saying that the mission statement is to help people before, 
during, and after disasters in every form. But I think one of 
the biggest problems that I recognized while being on the 
ground for 6 weeks minimum helping people--I was there. My area 
was very hard hit with the hurricane. But what I saw is 
constituents affected by the storm is how FEMA's 
representatives on the ground are telling people what the 
Agency cannot do rather than what it can do. And you mentioned 
that you were bringing the entire weight of the Federal 
Government there, and I think that FEMA has fallen way short of 
that, and that is what I am going to talk a little bit about 
today.
    Again, FEMA's entire mission is to assist ``before, during, 
and after disasters.'' It should not be up to disaster 
survivors to navigate the bureaucratic labyrinth in their time 
of need. FEMA appears to be plagued by poor decisionmaking and 
a serious lack of communication. Therefore, I think FEMA is not 
living up to its mission statement, a telling sign of 
mismanagement. And I want to say that I am the kind of person 
who believes government of the people, by the people, and for 
the people, and I tolerate no discrimination of any kind. There 
should be an information road map available to those affected 
by disasters, including what they can expect from FEMA.
    You started out by giving us figures about what happened 
and a description of what happened. We all know that. And in 
every meeting I have had with FEMA, either on the phone or in 
person, we get this litany of things that FEMA has done, how 
much money it has spent, but when you really get down to the 
nitty-gritty, you cannot get any details. What that road map 
should include is how much, what kind of aid they can expect to 
receive, a timeline for aid, information on all available 
assistance--the total Federal Government, as you said, which we 
do not get--what types of decisions will have to be made in the 
coming weeks, months, and years. So, does FEMA have this road 
map, and if so, how is it communicated to people on the ground?
    Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman Foxx, I completely 
agree that our programs can be very complicated, and I have 
worked hard over the last 3-and-a-half years to try to minimize 
the bureaucracy and make it easier for people to gain access to 
our program.
    Ms. Foxx. So, why are you unable to provide the basic 
information to those suffering from disasters in a timely 
fashion?
    Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, we do have 
information that we give out to individuals that have been 
impacted by communities. We have several ways that they can 
reach out to us, but my direction has always been to try to 
meet people where they are, which is why we go into the 
communities and talk to people. We call them back if they have 
registered and they have been denied.
    Ms. Foxx. I was in the meeting with 20 homeowners who live 
really close to where I live, the other day, and again, the 
first 30 minutes of the FEMA presentation was all bragging 
about what FEMA did. It is not providing basic information. If 
it is not doing that, how can it claim to be committed to 
helping people where they are?
    Administrator Criswell. I am happy to look at the 
information and the materials that were presented at your 
meeting and look for ways to improve them. Our goal should be 
to try to tell people how we can help them instead of telling 
them what we cannot do, and I have tried and worked to try to 
change that focus or that the way we approach reaching out to 
people and finding ways to get to yes.
    Ms. Foxx. One of my colleagues recently asked FEMA where 
approximately 400 trailers full of supplies and aid were 
allegedly delivered in Western North Carolina in the days after 
Hurricane Helene hit. He was told that the trailers were 
delivered to the state emergency management headquarters, but 
they also could not share where the aid, estimated to be worth 
between $4 million and $10 million, was actually located. Is it 
correct that FEMA delivered aid to the state then simply 
absolved itself from ensuring the aid actually reached the 
people it was intended to help?
    Administrator Criswell. This is a partnership. Our ability 
to respond to communities requires a deep collaboration between 
Federal, state, and local partners. FEMA delivers supplies at 
the request of the state in the amount that they have 
requested, and the state prioritizes, in consultation with 
their local jurisdictions, on where those supplies need to go.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will have several 
questions to submit for the record.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back. The 
Chair recognizes Mr. Frost from Florida.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. So, in my 
district, which was impacted by Hurricane Milton--I live in 
Orlando, Florida--I have been dealing with natural disasters 
and hurricanes my entire life. I have heard nothing but praise 
for FEMA's sense of urgency and how you all have responded in 
the last many storms we have had. Since Hurricane Milton, many 
of my constituents have opened up case work with my office to 
help get FEMA assistance. My team and yours have worked hand-
in-hand to solve these problems, regardless of their political 
affiliation or their voting record. So, just thank you for your 
hard work, and thank you to the hard work of all of the members 
of FEMA and staff who are fighting to ensure that people are 
safe and that we can recover after these horrible disasters.
    The individual responsible for the instruction that FEMA 
workers can avoid houses with Trump flags was fired. That is 
good, and thank you for handling that quite isolated situation. 
I do, though, however, have to call out the hypocrisy of many 
Members of this Committee. Madam Administrator, according to 
staff on President-elect Trump's former National Security 
Council, on at least three occasions, the President-elect 
hesitated to give disaster aid to areas he thought were too 
Democratic, like California, after the 2018 wildfires. If 
President Trump were to engage in partisan discrimination, how 
could that impact Americans, the economy, the environment, and 
also taxpayers in general?
    Administrator Criswell. The severe weather events that we 
have been experiencing and the increase in them, they do not 
discriminate. They impact all people across all walks of life 
in every part of this country, and we have seen a continued 
increase in the number of those events affecting more 
Americans. We have to maintain our ability to be a non-partisan 
Agency so we can ensure that everybody impacted by these events 
can get the resources and the help that they need, that they 
deserve and that they are eligible for under the law.
    Mr. Frost. According to reports, Trump only agreed to 
release aid when his staff pulled voting results to show him 
that the heavily damaged area of Orange County, California had 
more Trump supporters than the entire state of Iowa.
    I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a Politico 
from October 2024 titled, ``Trump Refused to Give California 
Wildfire Aid Until Told How Many People There Voted for Himn, 
Ex-Aide Says.''
    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
    Mr. Frost. In the FEMA chapter, Project 2025, the blueprint 
for the Trump Administration, on the FEMA section, it said, 
``They need to shift the majority of preparedness and response 
costs to states and localities instead of the Federal 
Government.'' This would be devastating for Floridians. We know 
these storms are happening more often because of the climate 
crisis. I have heard directly from scientists and 
meteorologists who fly into these storms, after I flew into one 
with the hurricane hunters, that they are going through more of 
these. They are seeing the worst storms they have ever seen in 
their careers. These are folks who have been doing this work 
since the 1980's. Madam Administrator, how would this proposal 
impact the safety of folks like my constituents in Central 
Florida who are getting hit year after year with these once-in-
100-year hurricanes?
    Administrator Criswell. The ability for these communities 
to rebuild after these events is extremely critical. Without 
them being able to rebuild, but also rebuild to a level that 
makes them more resilient against future events, is going to 
really impact their ability to recover. And so, what I have 
seen through my time as a local emergency manager as well as 
serving in this role, that the biggest limitation and the 
reason we have Presidential declarations is when it exceeds the 
capacity of a jurisdiction to be able to rebuild and allow 
their community to recover, then it will only make it more 
vulnerable to future disasters.
    Mr. Frost. After Hurricane Helene, President-elect Trump 
spread a ton of disinformation about FEMA assistance. Even like 
me, some of my Republican colleagues representing areas 
actually impacted from the storm, like Sir Edwards from North 
Carolina, we have had to expend significant amount of resources 
to fight these lies. During these hurricanes, in the days 
leading up, I spent a lot of time in all the EOCs that are in 
my district. I spent time going to the shelters and speaking 
with people, and I cannot tell you the amount of folks who came 
up to me in these shelters asking the most ridiculous questions 
based on what they heard from Donald Trump. And we know that in 
these emergencies, every second matter, every minute matters in 
terms of life or death. Does FEMA have the tools and 
partnerships it needs to fully combat the disinformation we 
have seen from certain politicians?
    Administrator Criswell. We continue to see the amount of 
misinformation around all disasters increase month after month, 
and what we saw during Hurricane Helene was certainly at a 
scale that I had never seen before.
    Mr. Frost. And how does this disinformation prevent you all 
or affect you all in being able to do the lifesaving work that 
you do and impact assistance delivery?
    Administrator Criswell. I think the biggest impact is that 
it makes individuals that have perhaps lost everything 
concerned about whether they should come to us for assistance, 
and then they cannot start their recovery process if they do 
not enter the system to get the resources that they are 
eligible for.
    Mr. Frost. My hope is that over the next 4 years, President 
Trump will not do the same things again, which puts American 
lives at risk. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Donalds from 
Florida.
    Mr. Donalds. Thank you, Chairman. Administrator Criswell, 
it is good to see you. My district was hit by Hurricane Ian 2 
years ago, so we were devastated like so many other communities 
were devastated like by Helene and by Hurricane Milton. My 
question for you actually surrounds the firing of Ms. 
Washington. She had given multiple interviews where she claimed 
that avoiding politically hostile homes is commonplace 
throughout FEMA. Is this a practice at FEMA?
    Administrator Criswell. Congressman, there is nothing in 
any of our policies, our training, or our information sent out 
to our field workers to avoid any home for whatever reason, 
especially not because of a political affiliation. The actions 
of this one individual are not representative of the work that 
we do at FEMA.
    Mr. Donalds. Now, Administrator, I got an issue because, 
and I will submit the article for the record. According to a 
New York Post article, titled, ``This is Not Isolated,'' there 
is a FEMA official who spoke under the condition of anonymity, 
who says that the Agency's practice of skipping Trump-supported 
houses or avoiding white or conservative-dominated disaster 
zones altogether is an open secret at the Agency and has been 
going on for years. So, Ambassador [sic], this is a statement 
given to the Post by an employee at FEMA. What is your response 
to that statement?
    Administrator Criswell. We have investigated this incident, 
and it is still under investigation. We are working with the 
Inspector General to determine whether or not this is broader 
than this, but the evidence that I have seen so far shows that 
this was an isolated incident, and it has not gone beyond what 
this one employee did.
    Mr. Donalds. So, a follow-up question to that, has FEMA 
finished its investigation into this matter?
    Administrator Criswell. No, we have not finished our 
investigation. We have been working with the Office of the 
Inspector General. It was also referred to the Office of 
Special Counsel for a potential violation of the Hatch Act, and 
I have asked the Inspector General to do a full review of this 
incident.
    Mr. Donalds. So, Administrator Criswell, you told me at the 
beginning of this questioning that there is nothing in your 
policies that would dictate that this is to occur, yet you have 
one official who was fired who said it does occur. You have 
another official under your purview, under the condition of 
anonymity, talking to the press, that it does occur, but you 
cannot verify to this Committee that these practices do or do 
not occur. Is that correct?
    Administrator Criswell. I have been given no evidence and 
seen no indication that this goes beyond this one incident. If 
you have specific information, I would welcome that.
    Mr. Donalds. Are you prepared to turn over the communiques 
between your supervisors and their field representatives and 
upper-level management at FEMA to this Committee?
    Administrator Criswell. We always cooperate with Congress 
on the information that they request, and we will continue to 
cooperate throughout this.
    Mr. Donalds. So, you are prepared to turn over all those 
communications?
    Administrator Criswell. We are prepared to support requests 
for information to help support the ongoing investigation into 
this.
    Mr. Donalds. Chairman, I would move that it is clear that 
the Administrator is more than prepared to share all 
communications with the Oversight Committee about various 
communications with field volunteers, volunteer staff on the 
ground, supervisors at FEMA headquarters here in Washington, 
DC. Also, for the record, Chairman, I move that the article 
that I talked about, ``This is Not an Isolated Incident,'' be 
submitted for the record.
    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
    Mr. Donalds. Administrator, I want to follow up with one 
point. It was said later in this article, ``FEMA employees are 
trained to deal with threats and disasters,'' and I think it is 
important for the Committee to understand that when you are on 
the ground dealing with threats, especially in a disaster area, 
it is important. Administrator, do you think it is a better 
course of action for law enforcement to be involved when 
potential threats occur on the ground because, look, during 
Hurricane Ian, we understood that you not only had citizens who 
were trying to protect their homes from looters, and they are 
concerned, you have looters who are actively trying to get at 
people's property in a disaster zone. But apparently, it 
appears that you have employees, whether you know or not, who 
are trying to take matters into their own hands. So, wouldn't 
it be a better course of action to involve law enforcement who 
is on the ground in a prolific manner? And it is not just local 
law enforcement. I know from personal experience, it is other 
law enforcement agencies that are on the ground in support to 
neighboring communities. Would you agree with that?
    Administrator Criswell. Congressman, we have seen an 
increase in the amount of harassment during the response to 
hurricanes Helene and Milton. We have been closely coordinating 
with law enforcement in all of the states that have been 
impacted, in particular in North Carolina where we had several 
reports of harassment and potential threats to our employees.
    Mr. Donalds. OK. Fair enough. What I would also let the 
Committee know, as somebody who had to deal with this 
firsthand, it is important for citizens to understand that it 
is very difficult to go through the FEMA protocols. We have had 
many amounts of citizens who applied for direct assistance, 
were denied, and they had to work through my office to do that. 
I am quite sure my colleagues who have had to deal with FEMA 
have dealt with this firsthand. I would really call on FEMA, 
whether it is this Administration or the next, that they need 
to clean this process up because the No. 1 thing that hurts 
FEMA's reputation is the fact that so many citizens are denied 
when they apply, the first time they come through the FEMA 
portal. And if they have to go through congressional offices to 
get help, and trust me, me and my colleagues, we will do 
everything for our citizens. But if that is going to be the 
protocol for how citizens get help from the Emergency 
Management Agency, then it needs to be completely revamped. I 
yield.
    Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair 
recognizes the Ranking Member for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Criswell, thank 
you for your testimony. Can you explain what the role of a 
door-to-door canvas is by FEMA during our hurricane recovery?
    Administrator Criswell. These are, Ranking Member, our 
Disaster Survivor Assistance teams. These are groups of 
individuals that go out into communities to either see if they 
have registered for assistance, check on their case for them, 
or also identify if they have any other needs that we need to 
engage our nonprofit partners that might be in the area, like 
assistance with mucking and gutting their home, and we can 
relay that information back to the local emergency manager or 
back to the state to make sure we are meeting all of their 
needs.
    Mr. Raskin. And this is a situation where there may be a 
complete communications breakdown because of the hurricane 
itself, right?
    Administrator Criswell. That is part of the reason we do 
this. It is because we know, and especially during these 
incidents, we saw limited cellular communication availability. 
They could not get online to register for assistance, they 
could not call us, and so we sent people out to go knock on 
their door and see if they have had that opportunity yet.
    Mr. Raskin. How many doors would you have knocked on during 
hurricanes Helene and Milton?
    Administrator Criswell. Tens of thousands, I would have to 
get you the exact number.
    Mr. Raskin. OK. And hundreds of people would have been 
involved in the effort?
    Administrator Criswell. Yes.
    Mr. Raskin. OK. So, it has been reported that there were 
unprecedented levels of harassment and threats leveled against 
FEMA workers, both the full-time workers and then intermittent 
part-time workers and volunteers who came along. Do you have 
any sense of where this harassment and where these threats were 
coming from? What were the things being said that would lead 
people to attack FEMA workers?
    Administrator Criswell. We have seen, over my last few 
years in this position, but even as my time as a local 
emergency manager, we have seen the amount of information being 
spread that is just inaccurate--about FEMA programs, about FEMA 
policies--continue to increase. We saw a big jump during Maui. 
We saw an even larger increase, and again, on a scale that I 
have not seen, during Hurricanes Helene and Milton, primarily 
being spread through social media channels.
    Mr. Raskin. And have you undertaken any efforts to combat 
that disinformation?
    Administrator Criswell. So, we do a number of things. We 
have an entire team of public affairs and external affairs 
experts that help us try to put positive information, correct 
information out. We establish a page, it is a standing practice 
for us to establish a rumor control page, that we have done for 
many years through many administrations, to put accurate 
information about the programs that FEMA is offering and the 
assistance that is available.
    We also reach out to the community. For example, in North 
Carolina, right now, we are hiring community liaisons, people 
from the community that can help be a bridge between us and the 
people in their community to build that trust, make sure people 
are getting everything that they need, but also to let us know 
what kind of information or what kind of resources they may 
still need.
    Mr. Raskin. The employee who was fired by you, a day or a 
day and a half after you learned of what had happened, was an 
intermittent employee, a part-time employee who may or may not 
have been trained on the proper protocols of FEMA. But what do 
you tell your workers to do if in fact they are harassed or 
attacked at the doors, going door to door, offering people 
assistance?
    Administrator Criswell. Again, we have people that go into 
communities that have just been impacted by significant weather 
events and meeting people on their worst day. And people are, 
you know, angry and they are upset because of what happened to 
them. And so, we often have people that feel that they may be 
in an unsafe situation, and so we train them to be able to 
remove themselves from that situation reactively. We never have 
done anything to teach our employees to proactively avoid an 
area where they feel they might be threatened.
    Mr. Raskin. OK. And just to restate the obvious, if this is 
correct, you have no policies or rules counseling people to 
engage in political party or candidate discrimination. Is that 
right?
    Administrator Criswell. We have no policy, no doctrine, no 
rule, anything to that matter.
    Mr. Raskin. OK. And that is why you acted so swiftly to 
deal with that situation when it arose?
    Administrator Criswell. I learned of this on November 7, 
that there was an alleged claim that an employee had done this. 
I directed my team to be able to look into it and provide me 
information. They showed me the evidence on November 9, which 
is when I directed the termination of the employee.
    Mr. Raskin. And I understand that FEMA itself is 
investigating to get all of the facts of the matter. Do you 
also support an investigation by the Inspector General at FEMA?
    Administrator Criswell. I have already requested an 
investigation to the IG.
    Mr. Raskin. OK. Well, look, on behalf of the family that 
stayed with me after the hurricane hit Asheville, North 
Carolina, and other friends who were affected, I want to thank 
FEMA for doing your very best on behalf of the American people 
and mobilizing a strong relief effort, not perfect, none of 
them are, but certainly a very serious attempt to address all 
of the needs that arose.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mrs. Luna, from 
Florida.
    Mrs. Luna. Administrator Criswell, nice to see you again. 
Up here. Sorry.
    Administrator Criswell. Yes.
    Mrs. Luna. Yes, thanks. You came to my district when we 
were impacted. Before I get to some questions that I have from 
my constituents, I did have a question in regard to the 
investigations that you have into Marni Washington. So, she 
went on CNN, and she had stated that under the practice of 
avoidance and de-escalation, that was what she was using, what 
her supervisor was using, in order to politically discriminate. 
My question for you, she also had stated that her supervisor, 
Chad Hershey, had directed her not to help politically hostile 
Americans, a/k/a, anyone who, in their opinion, had Trump 
signs. My question for you is, were you aware of that, and has 
Chad Hershey been fired, or is he under investigation 
currently?
    Administrator Criswell. I understand that Mr. Hershey was 
in her supervisory chain, but that is part of now the ongoing 
investigation.
    Mrs. Luna. If you find that he directed her to, and I 
assume that you guys will be talking with her directly, but if 
you find that, are you committing that he is going to be fired?
    Administrator Criswell. I will commit that anybody who has 
taken actions to politically discriminate against people that 
were impacted by this disaster will have the appropriate 
disciplinary action to include termination.
    Mrs. Luna. OK. And then she also had stated on that same 
interview that this was not just isolated in Florida, but under 
that same de-escalation and avoidance guideline from your field 
manual, that it also happened in North Carolina and Georgia. 
Are you aware of this, and in your estimates, roughly how many 
people have been impacted? She also stated that there should be 
incidence reports in regard to FEMA, that we should request 
them, but I assume that you are looking into that, so if you 
can just follow up on that?
    Administrator Criswell. Yes, we will certainly follow up on 
that, but again, our policies nowhere talk about proactively 
discriminating against areas where they feel that there might 
be something harassing----
    Mrs. Luna. Tracking. Sorry, I just have to move on, because 
we have time here. My next question is that, in regard to your 
investigation, Marni Washington stated that after she was 
terminated, that she still had access to her portals and the 
cases that she had filed, and because of that, she was actually 
able to see that FEMA was going through and deleting 
information in regard to the cases that she had specifically 
handled. Now, I understand that when people leave, sometimes 
things have to be terminated, but if you do have an ongoing 
investigation, my question is, why would you then want to 
delete information because then you would not be able to 
adequately conduct a conclusive investigation?
    Administrator Criswell. I have no information that we have 
deleted anything, as stated by Ms. Washington. Even if 
something was deleted, it is all part of a permanent record, 
and we have access to it.
    Mrs. Luna. OK. Then I would advise, if you are tracking 
that, you should go because she is saying that she physically 
saw that information was deleted out within 24 hours of her 
firing. I have one more question, but I am going to get to some 
constituent questions, so please answer these quickly. Pinellas 
and Pinellas County, where we were hit, we had actually 13 
deaths during the first hurricane, but the county has currently 
had only one DRC and has requested a second DRC with no 
success. What is FEMA's process for approving additional DRCs 
when they are requested?
    Administrator Criswell. We work closely with the state 
director of emergency management and the county to determine 
the best place for those. I can follow up with your staff on 
specifically why we have not put a second one.
    Mrs. Luna. OK. And we are requesting additional help just 
because of the amount of claims that we have for that area, so 
we are going to be following up. Please assist with getting us 
that additional. The second thing is, what is the status of 
FEMA's Flood Mitigation Assistance Program?
    Administrator Criswell. The NFIP program has seen a 
significant amount of claims as a result of Hurricanes Helene 
and Hurricane Milton. As you will see in the supplemental 
request, we are asking for debt relief for the National Flood 
Insurance Program so we can continue to pay on those claims. To 
date, I believe the number is somewhere over $800 million that 
we have paid out in response to Hurricanes Helene and Milton, 
but we will quickly run out of funding from that fund without 
the debt relief, and we will have to go to the Treasury and ask 
for additional funding to pay those claims.
    Mrs. Luna. OK. So, if you get that funding, you guys will 
be able to essentially ensure that recovery and resiliency 
grants for all the counties impacted will be received? If you 
get the money?
    Administrator Criswell. For claims against the NFIP----
    Mrs. Luna. Correct.
    Administrator Criswell [continuing]. With the debt 
forgiveness, we can pay those claims.
    Mrs. Luna. OK. My last question for you is, in regards to 
community trends, Marni Washington had alleged that that was 
what was put into a system that would mitigate these 
interactions if they felt that it was dangerous and these 
communities, a lot of them were conservative and Trump 
supporters, that they felt that FEMA had created an environment 
that had stated that those people made them feel uncomfortable, 
and that was the reasoning for them passing over these homes, 
what can you tell me about community trends in regards to this 
allegation that she made?
    Administrator Criswell. Our Disaster Survivor Assistance 
teams, part of what they do is go out into the community to 
understand what the impacts are and to understand what the 
survivor needs are. This is often called community trends, but 
things that we are looking at are impacts to access, roads that 
are out, water infrastructure, needs of the community--like, 
many places around South Carolina required oxygen bottles----
    Mrs. Luna. If I can just interrupt you real quick. How many 
people have been impacted by avoidance and de-escalation? Do 
you have a number for that, just nationally, or is there a data 
base for that?
    Administrator Criswell. I can tell you that for this 
particular incident at the direction of our employee, 20 homes 
were skipped.
    Mrs. Luna. OK. All right. Thank you for your time. 
Chairman.
    Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair 
recognize Mr. Moskowitz from Florida.
    Mr. Moskowitz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
holding this hearing. Administrator Criswell, good to be with 
you. You know, as the only Member in Congress who has run a 
disaster response, run a disaster recovery, handed out billions 
of dollars of FEMA money, also a Democrat who worked in a 
Republican Administration and ran the recovery efforts for 
Hurricane Michael in deeply Republican areas of the Panhandle, 
I can tell you, not once did I ever think about their politics 
or my politics. As I toured the Panhandle in Neal Dunn's 
district or Matt Gaetz's district, I looked at people as 
Americans who were hit by a disaster, and my job was to get 
them every program that FEMA had, every dollar available to 
them. That was my job.
    What happened in Florida in this instance is deeply 
disturbing. It is unacceptable. I know you know that. Disaster 
aid should never be declined based on support of any political 
candidate, and I am happy this rogue employee was fired. You 
did the right thing immediately, right? What should have 
happened here is, if there were members of FEMA's team that 
felt uncomfortable, that should have been passed up to the FCO, 
that should have gone to the Federal Coordinating Officer, and 
then that information should have gone to Director Guthrie, who 
is the Director of Emergency Management in the state of 
Florida, my former deputy, and then they could have made sure 
to identify those homes and gotten them the information, but 
that is not what happened. There was a clear breakdown here, 
and so you should do an investigation to make sure that 
something like this does not happen again.
    Every emergency manager in the country during COVID, 
yourself included, I am sure, was worried about the politics of 
disaster aid changing. We saw it happening in real time, and we 
were really worried, you know, about how that would go into 
future disasters. As the world is becoming more partisan, the 
world is becoming more divided--you are seeing it here in the 
country--we were hoping that disasters, there would be a force 
field around FEMA, but that is not the case. I know the people 
at FEMA are exhausted, OK? Talent is retiring. They have a 
rotating door because of the burnout rate from disasters. That 
is not just in this Administration. I talked to the previous 
two Administrators during Donald Trump's Administration, and it 
was the same problem because of all the disasters that are 
happening and the burnout rate that exists. My own agency lost 
200 people after COVID because they were burned out.
    Every problem that my colleagues brought up--and they are 
right. Chairwoman Foxx is right. Anna Paulina Luna is right. 
All of the problems that they brought up with FEMA, those 
issues about programs and being denied, this is not new. This 
has been going on for a while. It happened in the Trump 
Administration, right, because here is one of the things that I 
am going to say, is that no FEMA Administrator will tell you 
while they are FEMA Administrator, but the last two Trump 
Administrators will tell you, previous Administrators will tell 
you when they leave the job, is that Homeland has become too 
big. It has become too big. I got to work with Joe Lieberman. 
The idea of Homeland was a great idea. It is still a good idea, 
but never did anyone envision that the bureaucracy would become 
too big. FEMA cannot make the changes you want them to make. 
Whether it is Ms. Criswell or the next Administrator that Trump 
appoints, they cannot. Homeland will not let them because there 
are 30 people around a table, right? Trying to figure out what 
to do in the Agency. So, for the people at DOGE, if Vivek and 
Elon are listening, you need to look at Homeland. You have got 
problems at Secret Service. Guess where that is? Homeland.
    And so, what I am saying is, is that do not look at 
Administrator Criswell or this FEMA Administration, or in this 
Biden Administration, if you think there are issues in FEMA 
that you want to fix. I am letting you know these issues go 
back decades. They are not new. They are not. And so, I do want 
to say one more thing because I think it is tremendously 
important for my colleagues across the aisle and my Democratic 
colleagues, it is so important that we do not allow FEMA to 
become politicized, and that we do not allow disaster aid to 
become politicized. Laser beams do not start fires in 
California. We cannot guide where hurricanes go. And you know 
what? You know who is amplifying that stuff? Foreign accounts. 
Other countries are amplifying that stuff on social media to 
divide us, to divide Democrats and Republicans. They want us 
fighting over disaster aid because it helps their goal. We 
cannot participate in that. We should not amplify that. So, Mr. 
Chairman, I thank you for having this hearing. We should have 
this hearing, but I want you to know that these issues that you 
are bringing up are not issues of today. These are issues of 
yesteryear, and so I will work with anyone across the aisle on 
fixing these issues within Homeland. And with that, Mr. 
Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Jordan.
    Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Administrator 
Criswell, is Ms. Washington lying to us?
    Administrator Criswell. Ms. Washington has----
    Mr. Jordan. She said it is common practice. You said it is 
reprehensible and isolated. Both statements cannot be true, so 
someone is not giving us the facts, and I am kind of trying to 
figure out who is not telling the truth.
    Administrator Criswell. The actions that Ms. Washington 
took were unacceptable.
    Mr. Jordan. Well, you had another employee--now, they 
remain anonymous, but I think one of my colleagues pointed this 
out earlier--FEMA official who spoke on condition of anonymity 
said Ms. Washington likely received ``very clear guidance from 
her supervisors.'' Is that person lying, too?
    Administrator Criswell. I have not received any evidence 
outside of the screenshot that Ms. Washington directed to her 
team.
    Mr. Jordan. So those two people are wrong? They are not 
telling the truth, too?
    Administrator Criswell. We are currently investigating this 
issue and bringing in the IG.
    Mr. Jordan. But that is not what you said. You said this is 
isolated, reprehensible, has not happened, this is the only 
time, and they are saying, nope, nope, nope, it is commonplace.
    Administrator Criswell. I am saying that FEMA's mission is 
to help all people, before, during, and after disaster.
    Mr. Jordan. Maybe the best evidence we have is the actual 
screenshot. Can you put the screenshot up on the screen?
    [Photo]
    Mr. Jordan. Let us look at what the text message said. The 
text message said, ``Implement best practices,'' like this is 
the best practices, we are going to implement them, and they 
talk about making sure you are going in pairs or with more than 
one person, avoid the Trump homes, drink your water, take your 
towel, coconut waters. So, stay hydrated, walk with someone 
else, and do not go to the Trump homes. It seems pretty common 
and matter of fact in the actual evidence we do have the text 
message itself. But you are still saying Ms. Washington and 
this other person are not telling the truth.
    Administrator Criswell. When I received this text message, 
it was not in accordance with the way we conduct business at 
FEMA, and I directed her termination.
    Mr. Jordan. Even though it said best practices, even though 
it said stay hydrated, which everyone would agree with, even 
though it said go in pairs, which everyone would agree with, 
even though it said bring a towel, make sure you are covered. I 
mean, it said coconut water is the best way to stay hydrated. 
Even though it said all those practical things, the part about 
avoiding the Trump homes, that is not a best practice. That is 
not commonplace. Is that what you are saying?
    Administrator Criswell. That is nowhere in our policy, and 
I cannot speak to motivations behind----
    Mr. Jordan. I am not saying that your policy, but it was--
--
    Administrator Criswell [continuing]. What Ms. Washington 
did.
    Mr. Jordan. OK. Now, and her supervisor, Mr. Hershey, have 
you talked to him and to find out if he knew this was 
happening?
    Administrator Criswell. I understand that he was in her 
chain of command, and this is under investigation.
    Mr. Jordan. There are 13 people in this text message. Have 
you talked to all 13 of those individuals?
    Administrator Criswell. This incident is under 
investigation. The officer----
    Mr. Jordan. That is not what I asked you. I know it is 
under investigation. We know how investigations work when it is 
done inside the Agency. It takes forever. I am asking did you 
talk to the 13 people on this best practices text message?
    Administrator Criswell. The Office of Professional 
Responsibility has taken this, and they are following 
appropriate protocol to investigate.
    Mr. Jordan. Is the Inspector General looking at it as well?
    Administrator Criswell. And I have asked the Inspector 
General to take a look at this. I welcome their review.
    Mr. Jordan. Any idea when they are going to talk to these 
13 people since you have it? How about you personally? Have you 
talked to these 13 people?
    Administrator Criswell. I have not talked to them 
personally.
    Mr. Jordan. You have not talked to them?
    Administrator Criswell. I have an entire team that focuses 
on this investigation, and that is what they are doing.
    Mr. Jordan. Seems to me, it is part of a mindset that is in 
government. This is the scary part, because I think it is 
broader, and you do not have to take my word, take what people 
have said. I mean, this reminds me, we have talked about this 
many times, well, actually the same person. Let us go back to 
that, the same person who said that this likely received very 
clear guidance, this other FEMA official, also said this: ``I 
have heard from other entities who are serving in North 
Carolina that there was clear guidance to be mindful of the 
types of people who are in Western North Carolina.''
    Administrator Criswell. I have not seen------
    Mr. Jordan. That is pretty derogatory stuff there, isn't 
it?
    Administrator Criswell. I have not seen any of that.
    Mr. Jordan. But you know what it sounds like. It sounds 
like Peter Strzok when he said, ``Oh, I just went in the 
Walmart. I can smell the Trump supporters.'' Sounds like Joe 
Biden when he said, ``Oh, the garbage I see is the Trump 
supporters out there.'' Sounds like the guy, the professor, the 
Democrats had testified back in 2019 in the impeachment, 
``conservatives, especially very conservative people, tend to 
spread out, perhaps because they don't even want to be around 
themselves.'' This disdain, this mindset that is in the 
government where they are, everyone is deplorable, everyone is 
garbage, everyone is, you know, smelly people at Walmart and, 
oh, be mindful of those people in Western North Carolina. That 
is what it sounds like. And again, the best evidence is the 
text message we have, which reinforces that mindset that we 
have seen from so many people in our government.
    Administrator Criswell. The actions directed by Ms. 
Washington are unacceptable, and when I received this text 
message, I directed her termination.
    Mr. Jordan. Do you have any idea who this other official 
is? You said----
    Administrator Criswell. I do not, and if you have that 
information, Congressman, please share it.
    Mr. Jordan. Well, I do not have it. You are the one who has 
not talked to the 13 people on the text message.
    Administrator Criswell. It has not been raised to me.
    Mr. Jordan. All right. With that, Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair will now recognize Ms. Norton 
from Washington, DC.
    Ms. Norton. Administrator Criswell, I understand that in 
the weeks since Hurricanes Milton and Helene, FEMA has provided 
more than $1.6 billion in assistance to more than 910,000 
households. FEMA has also delivered more than 16 million meals, 
18 million liters of water, more than 3,000 rows of blue roof 
sheeting, and more than 700,000 gallons of fuel to the 
communities devastated by these hurricanes, and 500 FEMA 
employees remain deployed in these communities to assist with 
recovery. Administrator, what steps did FEMA staff take to 
contact survivors on the ground, including those displaced from 
their homes, and make them aware of the resources available to 
them?
    Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, FEMA has many ways 
that we can reach and connect with people that have been 
impacted by disasters. They can contact us through our 1-800 
number. They can go through our disasterassistance.gov website 
to register for assistance. They can use the FEMA app. We also 
have teams that go out into the communities, especially in 
something like North Carolina, where communications were 
limited, to make sure that they have had the opportunity to 
register for assistance or to check on their case to see what 
other information might be needed for them to finish it up and 
to process it.
    And then we established disaster recovery centers, fixed 
facilities, once the infrastructure supports it so people have 
a place they can go, and they can talk to somebody face-to-face 
and work through their particular needs and their particular 
case because we know everybody's situation is going to be 
unique to them. And we want to make sure all of our programs 
are available, and we help them find the right ones to support 
their unique needs.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you. The disruption of Hurricane Helene 
left close to 4 million people without power. Administrator, 
how did FEMA workers reach affected residents for support in 
this disaster response effort, even if a certain region lost 
connectivity or if a survivor lacked access to internet?
    Administrator Criswell. One of the first things we do, 
Congresswoman, is we put part of our leadership team in with 
local emergency managers to work side-by-side with them to 
understand which parts of their communities still need 
assistance. Then we can either direct our Disaster Survivor 
Assistance teams to go into those areas, or also the state is 
sending their resources, like the National Guard. The National 
Guard in North Carolina did an amazing job of getting into the 
communities and helping people that have been impacted. This is 
a holistic effort. This takes all of us to be able to reach all 
of those impacted, especially in something that has been 
widespread and complicated as the destruction that we saw in 
North Carolina.
    Ms. Norton. I also want to recognize that because of 
challenges like these, it did take too long for emergency 
assistance to come in such communities. We must learn the 
lessons of those shortcomings to improve the reach of emergency 
services at the local, state, and Federal level. Earlier this 
year, the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration projected 
an ``above normal'' hurricane season, meaning the level and 
intensity of storms and hurricanes would increase over this 
period. Eleven storms have developed into hurricanes this year. 
More than a few years later, the Lahaina community is still 
being built back after wildfires hit the land of Maui, and 
recovery operations are still continuing more than 2 years 
after Hurricane Ian made landfall in Florida. Administrator 
Criswell, what can Congress do to make it easier for FEMA to 
support long-term recovery efforts and assist with future 
disasters that strike the United States?
    Administrator Criswell. Congressman, we have two pieces of 
bipartisan legislation that would be very beneficial to our 
ability to help communities: the Disaster Survivor Fairness Act 
and the Management Cost Modernization Act. And I understand 
that I am over the time, but I would be happy to talk more 
about those two pieces. They would be critical in changing the 
way we help survivors.
    Ms. Norton. I commend you and FEMA's thousands of staff 
from across the country who left their homes to deploy to 
communities in need and provide them with assistance in the 
face of disruption, trauma, and loss, and I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Gosar from 
Arizona.
    Mr. Gosar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just last night, the 
White House requested an additional $98.6 billion for disaster 
relief with $40 billion marked for FEMA. Although it was 
created to provide relief from disasters, FEMA has now become 
the Biden-Harris Administration's star student in political 
prosecution. In October, FEMA intentionally violated the civil 
rights of American citizens in response to Hurricanes Helene 
and Milton. This is a key example of the weaponization of the 
Federal Government against the American people, and I suspect 
there is more for this Committee to uncover. It is critical 
that Congress is empowered to conduct rigorous oversight before 
any emergency funding has been placed into FEMA's hands. Ms. 
Criswell, according to your testimony, FEMA led the interagency 
response to Hurricane Helene and Milton for up to 64 different 
agencies. Do you think FEMA has the authority to direct these 
other agencies to also avoid homes with Trump signs?
    Administrator Criswell. There is nothing in FEMA's policy 
that would ever direct anybody to avoid anybody regardless of 
political affiliation or way of life. Our mission is to help 
all people before, during, and after disasters.
    Mr. Gosar. Gotcha. Former FEMA employee, Marni Washington, 
told reporters this discrimination was a colossal event and 
occurred in Florida, North Carolina, and South Carolina. You 
justified earlier today at T&I Committee that this was an 
isolated incident and that no other supervisor or employee 
deployed with Marni Washington provided the guidance to avoid 
homes advertising Trump signs. Will you commit to also 
requesting an IG report for the discrimination in North 
Carolina and South Carolina?
    Administrator Criswell. I have already requested the 
Inspector General to investigate this, but I will be certain to 
ensure that they include North Carolina and South Carolina in 
that.
    Mr. Gosar. Thank you. An anonymous FEMA employee, we have 
been told, I guess it would be from The Daily Signal, that 
employees were also advised to avoid certain homes and 
specifically use the terms ``hick,'' ``cowboy,'' ``redneck,'' 
``Trump supporters,'' and ``MAGA'' to describe them. Have you 
come across any of these terms in your investigation so far?
    Administrator Criswell. This is the first I am ever hearing 
any of those terms.
    Mr. Gosar. I will make sure you have those. In an interview 
with the Washington Examiner, they said these homes were 
avoided based on community trends from hostile political 
encounters. My question to you is, how does FEMA declare an 
incident as a community trend? Is it true that it only takes 
one encounter to make a FEMA employee uncomfortable to declare 
a community trend?
    Administrator Criswell. One of the things that these teams 
do, our Disaster Survivor Assistance teams, is they go into the 
communities to not only register people for assistance, but to 
understand the impacts of the community. They are looking for 
things like damages and access issues to transportation 
infrastructure. They are looking for damages to water and 
power. They are also trying to understand the survivor needs. 
These are often referred to as community trends, but these are 
used to help us understand the impacts and what resources we 
are going to need to bring in. These are not proactive efforts 
to try to identify where we should or should not go.
    Mr. Gosar. OK. So, my office requested these incident 
reports ahead of this hearing, but they were not provided. Can 
you please provide this Committee with the incident reports 
that determine Lake Placid should be defined as a community 
trend?
    Administrator Criswell. I would not say that Lake Placid 
was defined as a community trend. Again, when we talk about 
impacts to a community, we are looking at impacts to that 
community and survivor needs.
    Mr. Gosar. So, you would provide all the incident reports?
    Administrator Criswell. We will work with Congress on the 
request for information and provide what you need.
    Mr. Gosar. Now, Ms. Criswell, in October you said fighting 
this information is a priority for FEMA, including that you 
alleged misinformation from President Trump, Elon Musk, and 
some of my colleagues about FEMA's responsibility, or lack 
thereof, in spending. Is FEMA spending its taxpayer funds 
responsibly? Quick question.
    Administrator Criswell. Can you repeat that, sir?
    Mr. Gosar. Yes. Is FEMA spending its taxpayer funds 
responsibly?
    Administrator Criswell. We are absolutely spending our 
taxpayer dollars responsibly in supporting an unbelievable 
increase in the number of severe weather events that have been 
happening across the United States.
    Mr. Gosar. OK. So that would be a yes. Are you aware of the 
OIG's report from March 2023 titled, ``FEMA Should Increase 
Oversight to Prevent Misuse Of Humanitarian Relief Funds,'' 
and/or a second September 2022 OIG report titled, ``FEMA Did 
Not Implement Controls to Prevent More Than $3.7 Billion in 
Improper Payments From the Lost Wages Assistance Program?''
    Administrator Criswell. I am aware of those reports.
    Mr. Gosar. And you knew this? And how are you applying that 
to this discovery now that you are hearing about Ms. Washington 
and possibly other people causing a problem for this?
    Administrator Criswell. We value our partnership with the 
Inspector General, and we appreciate the findings that they 
give us and our areas that we can continue to improve. Some of 
those reports and some of the findings in those we non-
concurred with, but for those that we did, we continue to work 
with them so we can continue to improve because we are not a 
perfect Agency, and we always look to improve the way we help 
people.
    Mr. Gosar. I do not think anybody is perfect, so thank you. 
Appreciate it.
    Chairman Comer. The gentlemen, yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Lynch from Massachusetts.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Administrator 
Criswell. As evidenced recently by hurricane Helene and Milton 
and the catastrophic consequences, we continue to witness 
historic flooding that is triggered by extreme weather events. 
In our own state of Massachusetts, the National Oceanic and 
Atmospheric Administration has already predicted that my area, 
the Boston area, is expected to endure between 12 and 19 days 
of high-tide flooding that we have never experienced before. 
That is the most in the Northeast region. The non-partisan 
congressional Research Service also reports that floods are the 
most common and costliest natural disasters across the United 
States. However, flood damage is not covered, typically, by 
traditional homeowner insurance, and, moreover, most private 
insurers do not even offer flood coverage. Instead, as you 
know, most of our constituents procure flood insurance for 
their homes and businesses from the National Flood Insurance 
Program, which you administer. It is a Federal Government 
program that provides more than $1.3 trillion in insurance 
coverage and 4.7 million policies to residents, mostly in flood 
zones in over 22,000 communities nationwide.
    Unfortunately, Madam Administrator, to the detriment of 
both victims of flood damage and the American taxpayer, this 
program is currently more than $20 billion in debt, especially 
after having to borrow substantial funds from Treasury, as you 
noted earlier, to cover a series of devastating flood seasons, 
including going back to 2017, which became the costliest season 
on record and included hurricanes Maria, Harvey, and Irma. 
Administrator, FEMA administers the National Flood Insurance 
Program, which is set to expire in a few weeks, of this year. 
Can you offer us your thoughts on how the financial position of 
this program is impacting your ability to support homeowners 
and businesses that are recovering from flood damage?
    Administrator Criswell. The National Flood Insurance 
Program is one of the only ways that a homeowner can get the 
necessary coverage to protect their investments, and the 
National Flood Insurance Program has not had a multiyear 
authorization in many years. It has been from CR to CR. Without 
a multiyear authorization, we will continue to struggle year 
after year to meet the claims that individual homeowners have. 
And we have offered up, with our reauthorization proposal, 13 
measures--I think it is 13--steps that we can take that will be 
able to make the program financially solvent and make sure that 
everybody has access to this through an affordability framework 
as well. As we know, not everybody can afford flood insurance, 
yet it is their No. 1 resource and tool to help protect their 
investment.
    Mr. Lynch. So, we seem to keep falling behind with these 1-
year, I think it is called as-needed funding. You do not have a 
multiyear program where you can actually try to get ahead of 
some of the stuff. So, we are still dealing with Hawaii. We are 
still dealing with some of these 2017 disasters that we have 
not caught up to. One thing I wanted to ask you is that we seem 
to compartmentalize these disasters. Because of the impacts of 
climate change, we have got, you know, these epic rainfall 
events that is causing flooding, we have got tornadoes, we have 
got hurricanes, we have got drought-induced wildfires, and our 
flood insurance program only covers certain people or targets 
certain people in flood zones. Would it be better, would it be 
more efficient if we looked at a, rather than having a flood 
insurance program, we had a wider, a broader disaster insurance 
program where we have more people paying into that? It might 
cross-subsidize some of the costs that we are seeing as a 
result of these disasters and might allow a break to the 
taxpayer instead of having to go in and bail out people who 
might repeatedly be experiencing flood damage from storm surges 
in areas where they may not wisely relocate.
    Administrator Criswell. Yes. I mean, the National Flood 
Insurance Program is available to anybody, and I often have 
said, if it rains where you live, it can flood where you live. 
There are only certain areas that are mandated to purchase 
flood insurance, but everybody has the opportunity to purchase 
flood insurance. As far as making that a broader, more 
catastrophic insurance program, I think that is something that 
we should be having conversations with the private sector about 
because that is what they should be providing.
    Mr. Lynch. All right. Thank you. My time has expired. Mr. 
Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. Really good questions. I will recognize 
myself for 5 minutes, and, Administrator, I want to thank you 
for the work that you and FEMA did in my district a few years 
ago after the tornadoes in West Kentucky. I want to publicly 
say that.
    [Photo]
    Chairman Comer. With respect to the text message behind me, 
how did you receive the text message? Did you know about it 
before it became public, or was it brought to your attention 
before the media made public with it?
    Administrator Criswell. It was brought to my attention on 
November 7 while I was in North Carolina with my leadership 
team checking in on recovery. It was mentioned to me that they 
had heard that there was a text message that a staff member had 
sent. I then directed my team to look into this. This was 
before the media inquiry or the media story came out. They 
reviewed it and looked into it on the 8th. They contacted me on 
November 9. They showed me the text message. I still had not 
seen any media stories, and I directed the termination of the 
employee because it violates the way we conduct business.
    Chairman Comer. And you have testified that you believe 
this was an isolated incident. Why should we believe that this 
is an isolated incident and not part of a pattern in FEMA? 
Because we have seen many other government agencies that we 
believe have become politicized and/or weaponized. So, I mean, 
why should we believe this is an isolated incident?
    Administrator Criswell. Chairman, I understand your 
concern, and I share your concern because I want to ensure that 
the American people know that FEMA is there to support all 
people, which is why we are conducting an investigation and why 
we have asked the IG to look into this further to ensure that 
this is not beyond the one employee who sent this message, it 
is not indicative of the rest of our workforce, and it is 
completely unacceptable.
    Chairman Comer. So, I want to go back to Ms. Washington. 
You terminated her. She was a part-time employee. If she were a 
full-time FEMA employee, could you have terminated her then and 
there on the spot?
    Administrator Criswell. We definitely have more flexibility 
within our intermittent employee H.R. practices, but we would 
have been able to take the necessary action to remove her until 
a full investigation had been done.
    Chairman Comer. So, how likely would it have been that her 
termination would have been overturned because she would have 
been a full-time civil servant and been protected by the civil 
service merit laws, tenure laws, whatever you want to call it?
    Administrator Criswell. Given the text of this message, it 
is very clear that this was an unacceptable type of behavior, 
and I do not believe it would have been overturned. I think the 
system worked.
    Chairman Comer. Well, we are going to find out with a lot 
of Federal employees that we believe should be held accountable 
for bad behavior. And that is one of the huge issues in this 
election, and this is going to be a priority for the new 
Administration. And this is a role that this Committee is going 
to play moving forward to try to work with the Trump 
Administration, work with Elon Musk, and Mr. Ramaswamy to try 
to make government more efficient, so we will see. We certainly 
believe that people, regardless of their party, regardless of 
their status and their years of service in the Federal 
Government, regardless of their ideology, if they have done 
wrong, then they should be held accountable. And I think the 
American people agree with us, and I think that was a huge 
issue in the election a few weeks ago.
    I want to switch gears and talk about FEMA, and I think a 
lot of people, myself included, often wonder what is the role 
of FEMA. So, if a hurricane or a tornado or a natural disaster 
happens, I believe FEMA should be first on the scene. I believe 
that they should be in charge of, obviously, rescue and 
recovery to help coordinate to ensure that people have food and 
shelter. And then, of course, the big role, I believe, FEMA 
plays is debris removal, to try to help coordinate to get the 
power going, to get the roads cleared, and things like that. A 
lot of people wonder what then? What else is FEMA responsible 
for? Because I know when we had our issues in West Kentucky, 
people were thinking that if they did not have insurance, that 
FEMA was supposed to come in and pay for that. Can you tell 
this committee and the American people who are watching this 
what exactly FEMA's role is the second a natural disaster 
happens, whether it is a wildfire out West, or whether it is 
tornado in the Midwest, or whether it is a hurricane on the 
East Coast? What is FEMA's responsibility from start to finish, 
and how long should that take?
    Administrator Criswell. I think the best way to start that, 
Chairman, is the fact that all disasters are executed at the 
local level. They are managed at the state level and supported 
by the Federal Government, and that is where FEMA comes in. In 
this particular incident, I contacted Governors before the 
storm made landfall in all of the states that were impacted, 
encouraging them to ask for a pre-landfall emergency 
declaration. What that does is it allows me to preposition 
resources, and these are not just FEMA teams. These are the 
Federal Government. It gives me the ability to direct other 
members of the Federal Government to come in and be able to 
respond to those immediate lifesaving needs as needed after a 
storm passes.
    For these events, we prepositioned resources from Florida 
up to North Carolina and into Virginia to support those 
immediate needs, and we do that at the support of the Governor. 
We have teams that are embedded with the Governor sitting side-
by-side who are also communicating with the local emergency 
managers, the local first responders to know where those needs 
are so we can direct our resources to the areas that do not 
have enough. These all start and end with that local first 
responder, and they did amazing work in those first few hours 
after these storms passed. And our teams on the ground 
immediately, the search and rescue teams from across the 
Federal Government, were there doing lifesaving activities as 
the storm were passing all of these states.
    We then support through mission assigning other Federal 
agencies like the Army Corps of Engineers to help assess what 
the needs are going to be for debris removal or at the request 
of a local jurisdiction to actually do the debris removal if 
they do not have the contracts to do so. And then we continue 
to support the stabilization of those lifelines, being able to 
reimburse communities if they put in a temporary bridge or if 
they have done something to----
    Chairman Comer. And the time has expired, but what is the 
normal time length for this? Do you have an objective when you 
go in and say, all right, this is when we hope to be finished, 
we hope everybody is paid and all? Is that ever a factor or an 
objective?
    Administrator Criswell. All disasters are definitely 
unique. My objectives and my timelines are, in that response, 
to make sure that I have teams on the ground before landfall, 
that they are engaged during and after landfall, and then when 
the Governor's team tell us that the incident has stabilized, 
then we demobilize those response teams.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes----
    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, I just have a UC request on some 
relevant articles.
    Chairman Comer. Yes, go ahead.
    Mr. Raskin. One published in The Hill, September 30, 2024, 
titled, ``Georgia Governor Kemp Praises Biden's Hurricane 
Helene Response Amid Trump Criticism;'' a CNN article, October 
7, titled, ``DeSantis and Biden Speak On Storm Recovery After 
Reports GOP Governor Had Not Returned Calls From President, 
Vice President; and three, a CNN article, October 3, titled, 
Fact Check: Amid Bipartisan Praise for Biden's Hurricane 
Response, Trump Falsely Claims Reviews are Universally 
Negative.''
    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Krishnamoorthi 
from Illinois.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you, Chairman, and I thank you, 
Administrator, for your service. I want to show you a visual.
    [Photo]
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Do you recognize this picture?
    Administrator Criswell. I do not.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Good. It is an atmospheric research 
facility in Alaska that, believe it or not, conspiracy 
theorists allege is a mind-controlling weather machine, and one 
of the conspiracy theories out there is that somehow FEMA 
controls the weather. And I assume that you, as the 
Administrator, do not control the weather, right?
    Administrator Criswell. I do not control the weather.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And you do not use secret machines to 
control hurricanes to target certain places in the United 
States, right?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And you and your team did not direct 
severe weather at North Carolina to ``commandeer lithium mine 
property in that state,'' right?
    Administrator Criswell. Why would anybody want to bring 
harm to the American people?
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And you would not direct severe weather 
to target any one of a particular political party, right?
    Administrator Criswell. Never.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. You are not establishing FEMA camps to 
detain individuals or enact martial law, right?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. These are all conspiracy theories that 
you have had to deal with. I am glad that you have addressed 
them in this forum. Now let me talk about stuff that is true. 
It is true that during Hurricane Helene and Milton, FEMA 
assisted more than 35,000 households with disaster relief, 
right?
    Administrator Criswell. That number sounds about correct.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Let me just talk to you a little bit 
about what certain Republican officials have said about your 
response. Can you please show the first one?
    [Chart]
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. This is Governor Glenn Youngkin of 
Virginia. Do you recognize him?
    Administrator Criswell. I do.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. He said, ``I am incredibly appreciative 
of the rapid response and the cooperation from the Federal team 
at FEMA.'' You do not disagree with that, right?
    Administrator Criswell. Governor Youngkin and I were 
communicating, texting, and talking daily, if not hourly, 
during the initial hours that it was passing Virginia.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Well, let me show you another quote. 
This is Governor Henry McMaster of South Carolina. He said 
Federal assistance from FEMA has ``been superb.'' You do not 
disagree with that either, right?
    Administrator Criswell. I do not.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Another one. This one is from Senator 
Thom Tillis, Republican of North Carolina. He said, ``It has to 
be a coordinated response, and FEMA knows how to do this 
well.'' I presume you do not disagree with him either, right?
    Administrator Criswell. I do not.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Let me turn to a final topic, and this 
has to do with, basically, homes that also serve as childcare 
centers in many places, including in disaster zones. 
Administrator Criswell, access to childcare is often forgotten 
in the aftermath of a disaster, and I am worried that cases 
like these do not get enough attention by FEMA or other 
agencies because these childcare centers are often based in the 
provider's homes rather than a commercial facility. Let me show 
you what is called a flood susceptibility map of the Chicago 
area, which is what I represent.
    [Map]
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. I would like to draw your attention to 
this particular map because it shows the areas of the Chicago, 
what we call Chicagoland, that have high susceptibility of 
flooding, and as you can see, it is this blue area, which 
basically covers the entire region like a wet blanket. It 
represents millions of parents and children as well as 
thousands of childcare centers. And so, my question to you is, 
in light of the fact that there is a perception, and I believe 
a reality, that not enough attention has been paid to these 
childcare centers that are situated in homes, can you commit to 
proposing to my office and this Committee ways that you can 
increase coordination between FEMA and the SBA to assist 
businesses like these home-based childcare centers?
    Administrator Criswell. Congressman, my office would be 
happy to provide any technical drafting assistance or further 
assistance to be able to figure out how we can better address 
these vulnerable populations within these communities.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you very much, and I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair recognize Mr. Grothman from 
Wisconsin.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Thank you for coming on over here. 
I think the last time we had FEMA before this Committee was 
maybe about 8 years ago, and that was a time when, I think down 
in Louisiana, they had mobile homes that were being sold for, I 
do not know if you remember this, for maybe a tenth of cost to 
which they were paid for, but that was the last time. I can 
tell you, along with many Republicans, when they come into 
contact with the government, they sometimes worry about 
prejudice against them, OK? I know one guy in my district, he 
once did an ad, and miraculously, not your Agency, another 
agency kind of came down hard on them. Maybe coincidence. Maybe 
not. We all felt it was not coincidence.
    Under President Biden, foreign aid has become a vehicle to 
promote an overseas social agenda pushed by one party. The 
Administration has implemented a disturbing trend of using 
foreign assistance as a tool to advance political and 
ideological goals. This has raised an important question. Is 
the same political discrimination influencing how FEMA 
allocates disaster relief domestically, how it responds to this 
crisis? First of all, FEMA's workforce is unionized and 
represented by the American Federation of Government Employees. 
Is that true?
    Administrator Criswell. Yes, our employees have that 
option.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. What percentage of FEMA employees are 
part of the union? Do you know?
    Administrator Criswell. I do not have that number on me, 
but I will be happy to get back to you. It is----
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Does FEMA collect or track data on 
political contributions made by----
    Administrator Criswell. We do not.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. The union representing your employees, at 
least what I have before me here today, has contributed about 
$12 million to Democrats over the last 20 years. Last three 
cycles, 93 percent to Democrats. Ninety-six percent to 
Democrats. Again, 96 percent to Democrats. And these 
contributions go where you would expect, Senate Majority PAC, 
DCCC, and President Biden himself. It raises the question, when 
you have a group of employees or somebody representing 
employees that is so overwhelmingly slanted to helping one 
party as opposed to the other party, is it possible that that 
overwhelming bias slips into some decisions that are being made 
by your employees?
    Administrator Criswell. Unions are not part of our FEMA 
control, and employees have the option to choose to join them 
or not.
    Mr. Grothman. Right. I mean, the people who run the unions, 
though, and who are presumably elected by your employees want 
to push contributions overwhelmingly to one group. I assume 
they communicate with your employees. Is this something that 
possibly concerns you, or is this why we are perhaps here today 
and that couple of your employees seem to believe their 
responsibility was to use their government job to help one 
group of people rather than the other group of people? Could it 
perhaps create that mindset?
    Administrator Criswell. Congressman, it is just 
unacceptable that any FEMA employee would tell any part of our 
organization to not support an individual that was impacted by 
a disaster because of a political yard sign.
    Mr. Grothman. Right. You see what I am saying, but, you 
know, it is one thing if it is 50-50, but when it is like 95 
percent to one party, 96 percent to one party, does that create 
an environment, perhaps, of a dislike or even hatred of the 
political party that they are not giving money to, because, of 
course, this union, they presumably communicate with their 
employees, this is who you should be supporting, blah, blah, 
blah, blah, blah. I sometimes wonder if that atmosphere comes a 
little bit from these one-sided, slanted unions.
    Administrator Criswell. Again, employees have a choice of 
whether or not they want to join a union or not. Not all of our 
employees are part of that union, and regardless, it is 
unacceptable, regardless of if you are in a union or not, to 
discriminate against a disaster survivor because of a political 
sign in their yard. It is not who we are.
    Mr. Grothman. I am really glad that Chairman Comer is 
having this Committee. Are you aware of anything you are doing 
to make sure this sort of thing does not happen in the past or 
in the future, given the overwhelming political slant of the 
union that represents your employees?
    Administrator Criswell. So, you are talking about anything 
I have done with the union or this event to----
    Mr. Grothman. Specifically, to make sure this is not going 
to happen again.
    Administrator Criswell. Yes.
    Mr. Grothman. Specifically talking to your employees and 
say, we realize you have a union that apparently really 
dislikes Republicans. What are you doing to make sure that that 
does not flop over into how they dole out the government 
largesse?
    Administrator Criswell. Yes. So, immediately upon the 
termination of the employee that made this direction, I sent 
out an email to the workforce letting them know what is 
expected of them and that we serve all people. I have been in 
this job for 3-and-a-half years, and my focus has always been 
on putting people first, and that is all people. We have also 
conducted refresher training for all of our staff that are in 
the field, explaining to them what we expect of them, again, so 
there is no misinterpretation of how we support people that 
have been impacted from disasters. And we will continue to work 
with the IG on the investigation on if there is any other 
factors related to this particular incident.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. I am sure this is something that 
they will be talking about for the next 15 years.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Mfume from 
Maryland.
    Mr. Mfume. Thank you, Chairman Comer and Ranking Member 
Raskin. I want to thank the Administrator for being here today, 
and I want to associate my remarks with those of the Ranking 
Member, Mr. Raskin, in his opening statement.
    Madam Administrator, you have got a tough job, and I have 
tried to sit here and to listen to what you say and how you say 
it, and my gut tells me that you are a good person with a good 
heart who wants to do good things for your Nation. I think that 
if there was a disconnect here, it might be the fact that you 
cannot make everybody underneath you good people, even though 
we would like for them to be that way, because we take pride in 
our Federal workforce, the fact that it is not a political 
workforce. Every now and then, there becomes a possibility 
where something terrible can happen. We all know that 2024 has 
been a trying year for various agencies throughout the 
government, dedicated, like yours, to protecting and providing 
for Americans of all walks of life. Your Agency has done a good 
job in providing resources, at least what you have, I might add 
that, in very difficult situations in a number of different 
communities. That conclusion is not mine alone. It comes from 
Governors, other Members of Congress, mayors across the Nation.
    That being said, I would be remiss if I did not in a 
deliberately redundant way go back and address this report of a 
FEMA employee who were allegedly forgoing visits to homes that 
had Trump signs displayed. Now, regardless of whether that 
employee was following a FEMA policy or not, it is a sad day, 
quite frankly, any time. We have realized we have reached such 
a state in our government where people are making decisions 
based on their own partisan beliefs when they are in a 
nonpartisan role of providing service and providing it to 
everybody, and I must say that every disaster is not even a 
natural disaster. In my own city of Baltimore, we had a major 
bridge collapse, the Francis Scott Key Bridge, and we are still 
struggling to try to find a way to deal with that, and that has 
been since March 26 when it collapsed. The Port of Baltimore 
was forced to close, as you know. Longshoremen and longshore 
women were let go without work. Small businesses were impacted. 
We mourned the lives of those six persons who died on that 
bridge that night. And as we do in every disaster, we did not 
check to see which political party they favored. When the Small 
Business Administration, the Army Corps of Engineers and the 
Coast Guard all stepped up, as they did repeatedly, month after 
month to do the tough work, nobody asked for a party 
registration or voting card or voting record.
    So, we know that incidents like that are going to happen 
again. But what we, I think, have to be very firm in is our 
belief that emergencies should never have a party, and that 
disasters ought to never be partisan. I expect that we are 
going to work together on this. I would strongly suggest, 
though, that as I listen to the interview that journalist 
Roland Martin did with the person in question, I am still 
scratching my head trying to figure out if, in fact, she was 
told by someone who is full-time, who may have taken an 
overreach in a disaster with a lot going on, to say, by the 
way, you can skip those homes. I do not know that she 
necessarily would have done it on her own. As you know from the 
interview, she is not a Democrat, she is not a registered 
Republican, and she did not even vote. So, I am still hoping 
that at some point in time, your request to the Inspector 
General will be taken seriously, and he will start to look at 
what is going on. We need facts in this Committee more than 
anything else.
    And I am going back to the comments of my colleague from 
Florida who mentioned the overall Department of Homeland 
Security and suggested that that is where the problem lies 
because it is so massive, and people are not doing what they 
ought to do when they ought to do it to ensure integrity. I am 
going to meet with him later today on the Floor because I want 
to know that. He has worked in that capacity, so he should know 
what he is talking about. So, I would just hope that as we move 
forward here, to the extent that you can provide this Committee 
and all the Members of this Committee with additional details, 
that would be helpful. I would like very much to know what the 
IG's response to you is going to be, and I would like to know 
at the conclusion of your own report, if you would be so kind 
as to share that with the Chair and the Ranking Member, so that 
Members of this Committee who are still really not knowing what 
to believe will have something more concrete that we can look 
at and make decisions on. Thank you for your time. Mr. Chair, I 
yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Cloud from 
Texas.
    Mr. Cloud. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Administrator, 
for being here. The Chair had asked how long does it take to 
recover from these, and I represent a district that was 
devastated by Harvey. It was just a few months ago that we were 
still at a press conference at a ribbon cutting for something, 
a project that we had worked with FEMA to help bring recovery 
to. So, obviously, our hearts and minds go out to all those 
devastated in these past two hurricanes and what those 
communities and the families are going through right now.
    I wanted to ask you about, Representative Donalds mentioned 
that Ms. Washington says that she thinks this is an unisolated 
incident. Of course, we have the New York Post article that 
talks about a FEMA official who went on and said that avoiding 
white-or conservative-dominated disaster areas was an open 
secret within the Agency. You state that there is nothing in 
the policy, you know, and I will say, I have been in enough of 
these, and that is the expected answer from any Administrator--
of course it is not in the policy. From our standpoint, it is 
not the policy that we are concerned with. It is not in the 
policy for the IRS to target conservatives, it is not in the 
policy for NIH to fund gain-of-function research, it is not in 
DHS policy for them to release foreign terrorists into our 
land, but they are, it is not policy of the FBI to target 
schoolteachers or people of faith, but all this is happening. 
And the common response is, well, it is not in the policy 
manual.
    Well, we are concerned about the culture. And I do not 
think that it is in a stated policy or in the culture to 
specifically say, you know, skip over Trump signs, but I am 
concerned about if there is not a proactive response to make 
sure that that is not clear within the culture, that that kind 
of attitude should not be accepted at all. And I will point to 
this: FEMA's current strategic plan lists three goals. The 
first goal is to instill equity. We know that these DEI 
initiatives have had a discriminatory aspect in it. We have 
seen a lot of companies now having embraced it out of 
altruistic means, but understanding that what they do is they 
ask us to discriminate proactively. One of the things it 
mentions is this plan lists racial minorities, even religious 
minorities, as individuals who should be the beneficiaries of 
equity. So, I would ask you, whose religious majority or a 
racial majority does FEMA make decisions about resources 
distributed according to these policies because this is in the 
strategic plan. And so, whatever your case is on this, you are 
asking your employees to make distinguishment between 
individuals, as opposed to just meeting a need.
    I tell people all the time, in our in our office, we do not 
care who you are, we do not care what your voting record is, we 
do not care your background, your whatever. When you walk into 
our office, as many offices here, even across the aisle, we are 
here to help and to help get your case through. I think that 
should be the very clear standing of FEMA, and I would 
encourage you to revise your strategic plan and rid it of all 
the DEI. We will be addressing this actually in a mark-up, I 
think, tomorrow. But if you could do that, I think that would 
go a far way to making sure we have a proactive culture to 
where it is very clear so these isolated incidences do not pop 
up because what we did not see in that text thread was any 
pushback on that either, and that should have been clear, like, 
no, we are not about that, that is not what FEMA is about. And 
I would encourage you to do that.
    I did want to ask about a couple things, because sometimes 
I have noticed, and I do not think this is the intent having, 
you know, my own experience with FEMA, but sometimes it seems 
that the process gets in the way of the people. And I will 
point in our own district--you know, most of our districts are 
rural--sometimes you would have a grant for $500,000 for a 
rural community. They are having to go through the same sort of 
process that, you know, a large metroplex, somebody with the 
$20 million project is going through. Very often it was point 
of contacts were very difficult. I know one place that had 
seven site visits. It was a different team every time. They had 
to start the process over and over again because staff kept 
changing and these sorts of things.
    I was talking to someone even yesterday and have had a 
number of conversations with someone who is on the ground in 
North Carolina trying to help, and they listed a couple 
instances where you have people come out in the community. They 
put some resources together. They are trying to respond while 
FEMA is getting there and other resources agencies are getting 
there. And FEMA would go in, and they would, for example, be 
hosted in a place. FEMA would come out and rent out the place 
from underneath the people who are already doing recovery work, 
and they would confiscate the resources that were in that place 
and, basically, take over and kick the people out. There was 
this one group that, basically, were hiding their resources now 
because that had happened to them 3 times already.
    And so, I would also caution you, there are other 
instances, too, where you have people trying to go and rescue 
and do recovery of their family, of their friends, of their 
neighborhoods, who they know are trapped on a mountain, for 
example, and FEMA workers would stop them and prohibit them 
from going in to rescue them. And so, again, in the aspect of 
guiding a culture, could you speak to what you are doing to 
ensure, in a sense, that you do not have--you mentioned some of 
them are temporary employees--so you do not have people who 
have this newfound authority who are actually prohibiting the 
work because it does not fit within their scope, and that we 
are making sure we put people before processes?
    Administrator Criswell. Chairman, I know we are over. Do I 
have time to answer?
    Chairman Comer. Can you----
    Administrator Criswell. Make it quick?
    Chairman Comer. Yes, make it quick.
    Mr. Cloud. My apologies. I have had a lot of experience 
with FEMA, so.
    Administrator Criswell. Yes, Congressman. I mean, first, I 
just want to address that equity is a foundation of emergency 
management as part of my strategic plan because I think it will 
also address some of your concerns, because I share your 
concerns. And when I was a local emergency manager, both in 
Colorado but as well as in New York City, what I have 
experienced is the barriers that people have, good working 
people have, in trying to access the assistance that is 
available to them. And when I came into this position, my goal 
was to try to remove those barriers and make sure that 
everybody had access. That is the foundation of why we put 
equity in there. It was not a DEI initiative. It was about 
making sure all people can access the programs.
    Mr. Cloud. Religious minorities, distinguishing between 
religious minority and majority.
    Administrator Criswell. There is a definition as in the 
executive order that is listed in there because that is the 
executive order, but our view on equity is making sure that we 
have----
    Mr. Cloud. Why would you even ask?
    Administrator Criswell [continuing]. Consistent and fair 
treatment of all people and making sure that nobody is left 
behind. That has been our goal, and we have made 
transformational changes in our own policies and our 
regulations to help assist more people. And we have been able 
to provide more aid in the last 3 years because of these 
changes because we focused on making sure that there were no 
barriers, and we have not before.
    Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has gone way over. The 
Chair now recognizes Ms. Ocasio-Cortez from New York.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I think 
some of the points made earlier today that disaster response 
and relief is historically and continues to be genuinely an 
area of bipartisan work, and my hope is that we can continue to 
protect these programs. In fact, one of the things that was 
brought up earlier, Administrator Criswell, was the National 
Flood Insurance Program, the NFIP. I previously served several 
terms on the Financial Services Committee, which also has 
jurisdiction over the authorizations around the National Flood 
Insurance Program. And a lot of people do not know that the 
maps for the NFIP and what is considered a flood zone are tied 
to flood maps from before the Federal Government even 
acknowledged that climate change is real. And so, we are 
allocating flood insurance from before these areas became flood 
zones that are now flood zones. And so historically, there has 
been a great deal of Republican resistance to updating these 
maps. My hope is that we can do that now.
    But I wanted to move a little bit into your work and what 
we are seeing now in the current information environment, 
especially after a disaster. Administrator Criswell, recently 
in North Carolina and with these storms and hurricanes that 
have hit this year, there have been very large-scale moments of 
disinformation regarding FEMA, correct?
    Administrator Criswell. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. One of those that I have just seen is 
this idea that, and I am going to ask you if this is true or 
not, and I apologize that I even have to ask you some of these 
things. But I think it is important for the American people to 
see in a setting like this, where we have to swear to tell the 
truth, that we see officially on the record that these things 
are not true, the first being that the suggestion that FEMA 
assistance was only a $750 loan that would have to be paid 
back, and if not, FEMA would seize the homes of everyday people 
who may not be able to make that back in such a catastrophic 
moment. Is that correct?
    Administrator Criswell. That is completely inaccurate.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Completely false, correct? But was it, 
in your assessment, and did you see lots of people believing 
this on the ground or in the field?
    Administrator Criswell. I was on the ground for over 3 
weeks in North Carolina, and I did hear from people on the 
ground asking me, is this real or is this not real?
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Another one that I also saw very widely 
circulated, that FEMA did not have enough money to provide 
relief services because that allocation of funds went to either 
undocumented immigrants, aid to Ukraine, or even aid to the 
Israeli Government. Is that correct, that FEMA funds were 
allocated away to those causes?
    Administrator Criswell. Completely inaccurate.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Completely false. On the record, 
completely false, correct?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And other things that we have seen as 
well, that it is standing policy for FEMA to politically 
discriminate. We know that that is not true, correct?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And there was an incident, we see, but 
that individual was fired and that this is not a policy at 
scale, correct?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Now, we know that these are important 
pieces, very large and influential pieces of disinformation, 
but I want to talk about the harm of that, because if you are a 
FEMA worker canvassing door to door, you need to knock on 
people's doors and see what help they need, correct?
    Administrator Criswell. Yes.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Now, I know as someone who is a target 
of large amounts of misinformation and disinformation, people 
will sometimes--and I genuinely want to separate this from a 
partisan accusation, but it is very important to say that if 
someone thinks that a FEMA official is coming to their house to 
take their house away, that is a situation that could be 
escalatory or potentially become violent over something that is 
not true, correct?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I mean, I have had people that have come 
to me in an escalatory way because they have believed something 
about me on the internet that was completely false, and that is 
just me, let alone an anonymous FEMA official who does not have 
the same level of resources to be able to combat that kind of 
misinformation. And then on top of that, when people do believe 
these kinds of things, what is the harm to the communities that 
then get convinced of these mistruths?
    Administrator Criswell. I think, Congresswoman, one of the 
best stories that I can share with you was when I was in 
Chimney Rock, North Carolina, and I was talking to the 
leadership there. And Chimney Rock is the area where there were 
accusations that there were physical threats to our FEMA staff, 
where we temporarily moved all of our staff into fixed 
locations. When I talked to that leadership team there, they 
said this is not who we are. This is looking bad on my 
community. Tourists may not want to come visit my community, 
but let alone we need your help, the people in this community 
need to register for assistance, and now we have to make sure 
that they understand that the government is there to help them 
and encourage them to apply for assistance so they can start 
their road to recovery. I think that is a really good example 
of how it not just impacts an individual, but impacts an entire 
community and their reputation and who they believe they are, 
and now who the public, writ large, thinks they are.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Got it. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired. They 
have called votes. They called votes about 10 minutes ago, but 
we are going to have one more questioner, and then we will 
recess for votes. But the Chair now recognizes, for the last 
question before recess, the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Palmer.
    Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This hearing has been 
all over the place, from climate change to politics to somewhat 
on the issue at hand. And I want to ask you, Administrator 
Criswell, has FEMA made any attempt to identify the people 
discriminated against because of their support for President 
Trump?
    Administrator Criswell. The actions of this individual were 
unacceptable, and we----
    Mr. Palmer. That is not what I asked.
    Administrator Criswell [continuing]. Do not have any 
evidence at this point that shows that this was a larger issue, 
but there are ongoing investigations.
    Mr. Palmer. No, ma'am, I have only got a few minutes. No, 
ma'am. I am asking--there were clearly people who were passed 
over.
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Mr. Palmer. OK. Have you made any attempt to identify those 
people?
    Administrator Criswell. Those people that were passed over?
    Mr. Palmer. Yes, ma'am.
    Administrator Criswell. Yes. We sent another team in there, 
and they have made contact with everybody in that community.
    Mr. Palmer. So, what is FEMA prepared to do to meet the 
needs of those people who were discriminated against?
    Administrator Criswell. If they registered for assistance 
or needed assistance, they are now in the system and will get 
whatever they are eligible for.
    Mr. Palmer. OK. And those are people who have applied that 
notified you that they were passed over, or did you discover 
them by other means?
    Administrator Criswell. When we looked at the records from 
this employee's team and found the homes that were skipped, we 
sent a team in there to contact all of those homes. I cannot 
tell you if they all applied for assistance, I do not know that 
they all needed assistance, but we at least gave them the 
opportunity.
    Mr. Palmer. OK. Thank you. This is not the first time, 
though, that FEMA has had an issue with discrimination because 
for years, FEMA discriminated against houses of worship. It was 
not until a lawsuit was brought by three churches in Texas and 
two synagogues in Florida that this stopped. Are you aware of 
that?
    Administrator Criswell. I am not familiar with the lawsuit 
that you are mentioning.
    Mr. Palmer. Are you aware that FEMA has had an issue with 
interacting with religious groups and churches?
    Administrator Criswell. I am not.
    Mr. Palmer. I think it is an unfortunate part of FEMA's 
history. I can understand why there is a built-in political 
bias for FEMA employees in Washington because only about 6.5 
percent of the vote for President in the Washington, DC. went 
to Trump. But I want to ask you something else, and I want to 
go back to the questions that Congressman Jordan asked--
Chairman Jordan asked--and that those people who were on that 
chat group that witnessed the directive to volunteers, I am not 
sure you gave a satisfactory answer as to whether or not you 
have contacted those people and what information you have 
gotten from them. Have you tried to do that?
    Administrator Criswell. As I said before, I have not 
personally talked to them, but there are ongoing 
investigations.
    Mr. Palmer. So, will you state for the record that the 
investigators are contacting those people to get their 
information?
    Administrator Criswell. The investigators should be 
contacting them, and if they have not, I will ensure it.
    Mr. Palmer. If you maintain that FEMA took swift and 
satisfactory action after Mrs. Washington's team message. Why 
do you think the whistleblower felt compelled to reveal her 
message to the public?
    Administrator Criswell. I cannot speak on behalf of the 
whistleblower. I know that I was made aware of the situation on 
November 7. I received confirmation that this text message had 
been sent on November 9, and I directed her termination. It was 
not acceptable behavior. It is not how we want to treat people.
    Mr. Palmer. I understand what you are saying publicly, but 
what matters is what you are doing in the investigation, what 
you are doing privately to clean this up and to create a 
culture of respect for all people, and I really do not care if 
they are Republican or Democrat. I do not care their religious 
affiliations. I think the role of FEMA is to provide aid when 
necessary. And I just want to be sure that there is substantial 
proof that you can offer the American people today that 
taxpayers who pay their hard-earned dollars to provide for 
these disaster response resources will not face future 
political discrimination from FEMA. Can you give us absolute 
assurance of that?
    Administrator Criswell. Congressman, we are here to help 
all people.
    Mr. Palmer. I know, but you did not. I understand that----
    Administrator Criswell. And I can assure you that we will 
take action against anyone who has not followed our core values 
of compassion, fairness, integrity, and respect. We treat 
everybody the same. Everybody is eligible for assistance.
    Mr. Palmer. We are counting on you doing that, and I would 
like to identify with Mr. Moskowitz. I thought that his 
perspective on the need to reorganize FEMA--well, Homeland 
Security--was spot-on. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. Pursuant to the 
previous order, the Chair declares the Committee in recess, 
subject to the call of the Chair. We plan to reconvene 10 
minutes after the conclusion of votes, so the Committee stands 
in recess.
    [Recess.]
    Chairman Comer. The Committee will come back to order.
    Before I recognize Ms. Brown, I want to make this statement 
that during the recess for votes, my staff made contact with a 
new whistleblower who provided a credible account that a FEMA 
contractor visited the home of an elderly disabled veteran's 
family around October 10 following Hurricane Helene. While 
there, the FEMA contractor recommended that the family remove 
Trump campaign materials and signs from both their house and 
their yard. He warned the family that his FEMA supervisors do 
not take kindly to Trump supporters and that they are seen as 
domestic terrorists. The elderly homeowners were so frightened 
by this and afraid that they would not recover their loss that 
they removed all Trump materials and signs. Nevertheless, FEMA 
has not returned to their residence, and this took place not in 
Florida, but in Georgia. Administrator, we are happy to provide 
you with more information on this, but we and the American 
people want to know what FEMA is doing to ensure that political 
discrimination is not dictating how the American people are 
receiving aid following a disaster.
    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, will you share the information 
with the Minority----
    Chairman Comer. Absolutely.
    Mr. Raskin [continuing]. As well so we can follow up on 
that?
    Chairman Comer. Absolutely.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you.
    Chairman Comer. All right. Now, the Chair recognizes Ms. 
Brown.
    Ms. Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This hearing has shown 
us why it is so important for our Federal officials to remain 
unbiased, nonpartisan, and committed to helping every single 
American under their mandate. The work of the Federal Emergency 
Management Agency is critical and will become even more 
important as we continue to experience more severe weather 
events because of climate change. Just this year, in Northeast 
Ohio, we experienced severe drought, extreme heat, flash 
floods, and destructive tornadoes, all of which took place in 
the span of just 1 month. I am very thankful that no deaths 
occurred as a result, but the destruction from these storms and 
climate events continue to be felt in my district and every 
district across the country. We are grateful for the assistance 
that FEMA provided, helping to assess the damage, and get 
Northeast Ohio back on its feet.
    As my colleagues have said, storms and other disaster 
events have no political party, and they do not discriminate. 
They do not care if you live in a blue state, a red state, or a 
purple state. That is why FEMA and all of our Federal agencies 
must remain fiercely nonpartisan. So, Administrator Criswell, 
can you speak to how FEMA accomplishes its mission and goals in 
a nonpartisan way, and why doing so is so important?
    Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, the work that we do, 
again, our mission statement of helping people before, during, 
and after disasters, is so critical and especially, as you 
mentioned, in a time when we are seeing an increase in the 
number of severe weather events across the United States. These 
weather events are becoming more complex, creating additional 
challenges for people across the country to recover from these 
events. We have to support everybody that has been impacted by 
this, and it is one of the reasons why I have been so 
determined throughout my time here to remove as many barriers 
to accessing our programs as possible, like the recent changes 
to our individual assistance program, which has been 
transformational, the biggest changes that we have done in 
probably 20 years to open up more assistance for people across 
the United States that have been impacted. We have to help 
these people get back on their road to recovery and that is 
what FEMA does. We jumpstart that recovery.
    Ms. Brown. And can you tell us why public confidence in 
your mission is critical to the safety and well-being of the 
American public?
    Administrator Criswell. There is nothing more important 
than trust. We have to have the trust of the American people. 
We have to have trust of the communities, the leaders that we 
are there to serve. We work for the Governor. We work for those 
local communities. These disasters start and end with them and 
we are there to support them, and we have to have that trust. 
That is why we embed people side-by-side with the Governor's 
team, with community leaders' teams, so we know what issues are 
going on, what the challenges their communities are facing, so 
we can move resources into those communities to help meet those 
needs.
    Ms. Brown. Thank you. Now, it is unfortunate we have seen 
extremist conspiracy theories regarding FEMA's disaster 
response. Can you please speak to how this harmful and 
inaccurate rhetoric undermines your Agency's mission to provide 
support to Americans impacted by a disaster, regardless of 
party affiliation or anything else?
    Administrator Criswell. Yes, the amount of misinformation, 
Congresswoman, that we have seen throughout this event has 
really been at a whole new level, but this is something that 
FEMA has experienced since it was instituted in 1979. And we 
need to be able to reach people where they are at to help them 
on their road to recovery, and we do this in a number of ways. 
We can translate information into their native language. We can 
reach out to local faith-based organizations, trusted leaders 
in the community to help them reach out to people that have 
been impacted so they know that the information they are 
getting is accurate and that they can and should apply for 
assistance with FEMA.
    Ms. Brown. Thank you for that. And this is how our 
essential Federal agencies should continue to operate, 
unaffected by partisan politics and above political 
interference. I am very glad that this is something we are in 
agreement on today and look forward to it continuing into the 
future. And with that, I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair 
recognizes Mr. Sessions from Texas.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 
Administrator, thank you for taking time to be here. I felt 
like that in listening to you earlier, that your questions, the 
answers, and the things that you responded with, not only show 
that you have the capacity to understand the task in front of 
you, but that you have effectively dealt with it. If I could 
just provide two pieces of information. I am not even looking 
for a response, but two pieces of information. We did a 
Subcommittee hearing out in Hawaii and we had an opportunity, 
the Subcommittee which I chair, Federal Workforce--Government 
Operations and Federal Workforce--and it was very important for 
us to go, and we learned that it was the most expensive 
disaster in the country's history, some $3 billion. I was 
surprised to hear that it was the most expensive, but that is 
the testimony. I would draw to your attention that much of the 
delay that has caused much of the money that has been spent, I 
think, could be negotiated better with the Governor of the 
state. The FEMA representatives who were there did a great job 
and I enjoyed them, but they felt like that the delays in their 
ability to make progress, to get people back onto their own 
home site, back in their own homes has been delayed because the 
Governor will not issue the necessary paperwork for them to 
move forward. And so, they have moved them off a little bit, 
maybe a mile to the West, and they are building a huge new 
subdivision of mobile homes, essentially, that are going to 
cost a million dollars each. And I think that many of those 
could have been placed, maybe 4 or 5 months earlier with the 
assistance of the Governor. I would encourage you to please 
engage the Governor.
    Second, in 2010, there was a blast that happened at West 
Texas, a great big explosion, and part of that explosion 
destroyed many schools, I think the elementary school, the 
junior high, and the high school. We are still now 14 years off 
that, and there is a disagreement about the aggregated money 
that was spent, and FEMA still believes that West Texas, West 
Independent School District, still owes back a great deal of 
money, and my staff got deeply engaged. About a 5-hour Zoom 
call occurred, and at that I think that there could have been 
more transparency on behalf of the Federal Government because 
there were dollars that were lumped into aggregate areas that 
we could not tell what was in there, and I do not think it was 
a perfect match. It was apples on one side and oranges on 
another, and the city of West, including the school district, 
put things that they paid for, for instance, some athletic 
fields and some other things, which were not broken out and 
which may have been an assumption that somebody else was paying 
for things.
    My point in saying this, you have not personally looked at 
this and I have not either, but I am going to, and I would like 
to, when I contact your regional coordinator there, I would 
like to advise him that I told you that I think more 
transparency will be necessary so that we can effectively put 
this to bed, and I would like to ask that you somehow give some 
signal or notice. Let us get transparency. Let us resolve this. 
Fourteen years is too long. We do appreciate FEMA. We do 
appreciate the work they have done and I am proud of your work 
as the Administrator. Mr. Chairman, I yield back my time.
    Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair 
recognizes Ms. Lee from Pennsylvania.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I would also like to 
thank Administrator Criswell for being here with us today on a 
very long day, obviously, but let us be real. You know, what 
FEMA does has never been more critical because right now 
climate change has completely flipped the script. Storms like 
Milton and Helene hitting landlocked states, that was 
unthinkable not too long ago, but now we have got places like 
Asheville, North Carolina, 2,000 feet above sea level and 
hundreds of miles from the coast getting wrecked by hurricanes 
and extreme weather. So, Administrator Criswell, as we are 
seeing more frequent and intense storms, what new challenges 
are you seeing emerge for your Agency?
    Administrator Criswell. As you mentioned, Congresswoman, we 
are seeing events like we have not seen before. I mean, I can 
think back to a year ago with the wildfires in Maui that were 
happening at the same time that we had a hurricane in the 
Pacific heading toward the desert lands of California. The 
types of events and severe weather events that we are seeing 
are at a scale that we have not seen previously. I mean, as an 
example, 117-ish disasters last year and we have over 170 
already declared this year. The challenges we face is making 
sure as we are rebuilding these communities, that we do so in a 
way that makes them stronger against future storms, and not 
just the risks that they faced in the past, but the risks that 
they will face in the future.
    Ms. Lee. Certainly. So, as climate change worsens, would 
you say that your Agency is going to need more resources or 
fewer resources?
    Administrator Criswell. I think we will definitely need 
more resources to be able to keep up with the pacing demand of 
the events that we have been responding to.
    Ms. Lee. Certainly. It does not take a genius to figure 
that one out. More disasters in more areas mean more help will 
be needed. The climate crisis is here. Pretending that it does 
not exist or that it will not get worse only harms the people 
that we have been sent to this body to represent. For the sake 
of not only my constituents, but people all over the country 
who may face natural disasters they have never even thought to 
prepare for. I hope that we can all come together to give the 
American people the help that they deserve. That means making 
sure that FEMA is fully funded and that they are serving all 
survivors of natural disasters. So, let us be honest about what 
is happening here today.
    My Republican colleagues want to cherry-pick this incident 
and sensationalize it. Well, the reality is that for decades 
there has been different treatment by FEMA, for instance, 
toward Black and Brown communities. Hurricanes Katrina, Maria, 
Ida, Florence, Harvey, we all saw communities of color served 
last or not at all, and those are difficult to discuss, but 
important. Several reports and investigations confirmed what 
those of us who are part of those communities already knew, 
that White disaster victims were helped first and with more 
money than Black, people of color, even when the damage was the 
same. Rather than fixate on a single incident, this Committee 
should be working to ensure that the entire system is equitable 
for all Americans and that we are building on the work of the 
Administration to make that so.
    With that said, while we are reflecting and analyzing our 
disaster response, I would like to ask you, Administrator 
Criswell, what has FEMA done to ensure that all communities, 
particularly the most marginalized, are being fully served? How 
has there been improvement since previous storms where we have 
seen critiques or even difficulties in administering service?
    Administrator Criswell. You know, I have served as a local 
emergency manager, and I understand what it is like to be a 
customer of FEMA. I have seen people within my own communities 
that have had a hard time accessing the programs. One of the 
first things that I did was change some of our policies to 
ensure that we understand everybody's unique needs. For 
example, we know that many homeowners in all parts of the 
country do not have traditional mortgages or traditional deeds 
to their homes. And so, we expanded the types of documentation 
that we accept from people so they can access our programs. 
These are the kind of barriers that were affecting people 
everywhere, and we wanted to make sure that everyone that was 
impacted by a disaster could access our programs with minimal 
amount of barriers. Those are the changes that we have made. We 
continue to make more. There is more work to do.
    Ms. Lee. Certainly, but those are such critical steps that 
we have seen results from, so we thank you for that. I do not 
think it can be stressed enough how important FEMA is going to 
be in the years to come. The climate crisis means recognizing 
that we are about to see weather events we have just never 
expected. Hurricanes ravaging inland communities, 
uncontrollable wildfires, as you have mentioned, across more 
areas of the country, uncontrollable tornadoes, floods, severe 
storms that are upending lives. Every dollar not invested in 
FEMA now, is just going to burn us in the years to come.
    When communities are leveled, it costs more money to fix. 
We have no choice but to invest if we do not want to see 
communities completely erased after climate catastrophes. I 
agree with my colleagues across the aisle that partisanship has 
no place in distributing government services and aid. Neither 
does race or socioeconomic status. That being said, as more and 
more of our constituents are affected by increasing natural 
disasters, it is more important than ever that we maintain that 
same commitment to nonpartisan distribution of aid in the 
coming years. I thank you, again, for joining us and for your 
testimony today, and I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Burchett from 
Tennessee.
    Mr. Burchett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Criswell, there 
seems to be a huge discrepancy in Federal cost share between 
different states. And if I had a map, I could show you. There 
it is up there on there.
    [Map]
    Mr. Burchett. Why is East Tennessee only granted 45 days of 
100-percent Federal cost share? It seems like parts of North 
Carolina, as you can see, were granted 180 days of the 100 
percent Federal cost share.
    Administrator Criswell. The cost share requests for each of 
the states were granted based on the Governor's request.
    Mr. Burchett. The Governor. So, when I go to Governor Bill 
Lee, he is going to tell me that was what he requested?
    Administrator Criswell. That was the Governor's initial 
request. He has since then requested an additional amount of 
time, and that is currently under review.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. We would be very appreciative if you 
could help with that. Why is there a political border between 
Tennessee and North Carolina determining the Federal cost 
share? Does that fall back on the Governors, or is that 
something that you all do? I mean, it just seems like if you 
got a loss, you know, why should it stop at the border if 
obviously the devastation is in North Carolina and then the 
water came down through there and just wiped-out parts of 
Tennessee as well?
    Administrator Criswell. Presidential disaster declarations 
are based by statute on individual states, and then everything 
that goes with that, to include cost share, is based on the 
request from the Governor as well as the overall capacity and 
needs of that state.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. When would the Governor's review be 
finalized?
    Administrator Criswell. We plan to have that review done in 
the next several weeks.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. If it is done in the next several weeks, 
won't that delay the cleanup by these companies?
    Administrator Criswell. No, it should not delay it. This is 
only about a cost share. So, the work to continue to remove 
debris or to stabilize critical infrastructure should and needs 
to continue, and then we will continue to reimburse states on 
the work that they have done.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. Is North Carolina eligible for 180 days 
of Federal cost share due to the severity of the disaster, or 
it is just that goes back just to the Governor, what they were 
asking?
    Administrator Criswell. In North Carolina's case, the 
Governor did ask for 180 days, and based on the severity and 
magnitude of the disaster, and the scale of the impacts across 
Western North Carolina, it was determined that that was an 
appropriate request.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. What documentation do you require to 
reimburse disaster victims for temporary shelter?
    Administrator Criswell. For individuals themselves or for 
states that covered sheltering costs?
    Mr. Burchett. Individuals.
    Administrator Criswell. So, if an individual has 
experienced costs related to evacuating their area, either pre-
landfall or during a disaster, they are eligible for a number 
of different programs. They can get rental assistance, and that 
can be determined just by applying for FEMA additional 
assistance, but if they need continuing rental assistance, they 
will have to show receipts that they are continuing to pay for 
rent. Every case is going to be specific and unique to each 
individual, and we work with them on a case-by-case basis.
    Mr. Burchett. The lady who has been alluded to many times, 
the FEMA employee with the name was Marni Washington, if I am 
correct, who gave the order to discriminate against Trump 
supporters. Who is her supervisor, and was the supervisor 
disciplined or was it just totally taken as an individual 
action?
    Administrator Criswell. At this point, the unacceptable 
behavior of this FEMA crew lead, this individual person, has 
led to my direction to have her terminated. We are conducting 
ongoing investigations, and we will continue to provide any 
necessary disciplinary action as necessary. We have also 
engaged the Inspector General to assist us and provide their 
own independent investigation.
    Mr. Burchett. Was this person's supervisor investigated as 
well?
    Administrator Criswell. This is an ongoing investigation, 
and everybody that has been involved in that incident will be 
part of that investigation.
    Mr. Burchett. When do you expect that to be finalized? Is 
there any way to tell?
    Administrator Criswell. I think it is too early to tell an 
exact timeframe, especially since we want to bring in the 
Inspector General to conduct their own investigation.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. What documents do illegal migrants need 
for shelter?
    Administrator Criswell. I am not an immigration agency. I 
would have to defer you to DHS.
    Mr. Burchett. So, they do not come to you all and say--when 
they apply for FEMA, they do not do that?
    Administrator Criswell. Only legal citizens can get 
additional assistance from FEMA. There are a number of ways 
that they can do that, and it is all described in statute.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. Secretary Mayorkas uses authority under 
Title V of the 2024 appropriations bill to shift funds from the 
migrant program to disaster relief programs. How do you plan to 
restore the faith in FEMA after that occurred?
    Administrator Criswell. Can you repeat that question, sir? 
We shifted----
    Mr. Burchett. I am running out of time, if that is all 
right, Mr. Chairman. Has Secretary Mayorkas used his authority 
under Title V of the 2024 Appropriations Bill to shift funds 
from migrant programs to disaster relief programs?
    Administrator Criswell. I am not aware of any funding being 
shifted from migrant programs into disaster relief programs.
    Mr. Burchett. Or----
    Administrator Criswell. Disaster relief is a separate 
appropriation from Congress.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. For disaster relief to migrant, either 
way?
    Administrator Criswell. There has been no money shifted 
from the disaster relief fund under this Administration to 
support migrant programs.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. I have run out of time. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Crockett.
    Ms. Crockett. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank 
you so much, Administrator, for being here. A couple of things 
that I want to try to run through as quickly as possible. Are 
you familiar with NOAA?
    Administrator Criswell. NOAA, the National Oceanic 
Atmospheric Administration?
    Ms. Crockett. Yes, yes. And out of curiosity--you obviously 
knew what NOAA stood for--when we are trying to prepare for 
these disasters as they are impending, do you rely on 
information that you receive from them in getting prepared for 
a potential disaster?
    Administrator Criswell. NOAA is a critical partner of 
FEMA's, whether it is through their National Hurricane Center 
to give us forecasts for where hurricanes and the strength of 
hurricanes are going to hit, or the National Water Center that 
helps us understand what the flooding impacts are going to be, 
or the Severe Weather Center that talks about tornado 
forecasts. All of this is important to make sure that, one, we 
can inform individuals that are in harm's way, but also help us 
prepare and preposition our resources to support any immediate 
response needs.
    Ms. Crockett. Thank you for that. So, you would agree with 
me that any administration that would decide that it wants to 
get rid of NOAA, that would probably make your job that much 
more difficult?
    Administrator Criswell. Without the scientific data that we 
get from NOAA to help us make decisions and warn the public, it 
would make that job more difficult.
    Ms. Crockett. OK. I want to talk about money, and I want to 
talk about it a lot here in a minute. Listen, we had a vote 
that was right before these terrible hurricanes that we have 
been talking about, Milton and Helene, came in. And in that 
particular vote, we had an opportunity to decide how much 
funding was going to go to FEMA. And it is my understanding 
that on this Committee, we had a few Members that decided that 
they were not going to vote in support of that funding. I do 
not know how closely you follow, but we had a number of Members 
who actually served not only on this Committee, but they serve 
in states that have been mentioned, such as Tennessee, North 
Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. And right now, it is my 
understanding that we are having a hearing because there is a 
concern about a specific individual who potentially skipped, I 
think, the total was 20 homes, correct?
    And in those 20 homes, if you had to guess, and I do not 
know if you have been back to those 20 homes at this point in 
time to see what resources, if any, were needed, but if you had 
to guess, approximately how much money are we talking about did 
not potentially get distributed immediately to those 20 homes?
    Administrator Criswell. All 20 homes have been revisited by 
our Disaster Survivor Assistance teams. I do not know how many 
have actually applied for assistance, but the maximum amount 
that is available for an individual through this disaster was 
$42,500 for housing assistance and another possible $42,500 for 
other needs assistance.
    Ms. Crockett. OK. What I am hearing, though, is we are 
talking about 20 houses. The data that I have in front of me 
shows that over 18,000 interactions have been conducted for 
survivors of both Hurricane Helene and Milton. Is that 
approximately correct?
    Administrator Criswell. I would say that that number is 
probably much higher than that.
    Ms. Crockett. OK. Give me your number. Well, let us 
presuppose that the number was 18,000. If we talked about 20 
out of 18,000, that would mean that we are currently using 
resources to have a hearing about .1 percent of interactions, 
so this is not something that we would consider to be 
widespread when we start talking about percentages that are as 
low as .1 percent. In addition to that, it is my understanding 
that as of November 13, FEMA has delivered over 16 million 
meals, over 18 million liters of water, over 3,000 rolls of 
blue roof sheeting, over 700,000 gallons of fuel, and 
additionally, FEMA has delivered over 2,000 tractor trailer 
deliveries containing critical supplies. Do you have any reason 
to have any discrepancies about those numbers?
    Administrator Criswell. No.
    Ms. Crockett. In addition to that, it is my understanding--
I am sorry, you are right that over 671,000 households impacted 
by Hurricane Helene have received over $503 million from FEMA's 
Serious Needs Program, and over 218,000 households impacted by 
Hurricane Milton have received over $145 million. Yet and 
still, we had Members on this Committee, it looks like there 
were 82 Members that opposed the bill to fund when we knew that 
this was coming, thanks to NOAA, and 19 of the 26 Republicans 
on this Oversight Committee voted against the bill to keep FEMA 
funded, and nine are in states that were directly hit.
    I do not understand why we come in and pretend that we have 
all these issues with your Agency, and I thank you for your 
service, when you do not want to fund it. You cannot complain 
about these issues, and when we are talking about, you know, 
the people that got skipped over, maybe or maybe not, 
ultimately there was a concern about safety. Now hopefully, we 
will get the full investigation, but we know that it was Trump 
that was out there himself. He was putting out disinformation 
and misinformation to the extent that you all had to set up an 
entire website to try to combat it. That was a disservice to 
all Americans because when a hurricane hits, it does not go 
into the Democratic areas. It does not go to the Independents. 
It does not go to the Republicans. It goes to American 
citizens. It is time for us to decide that we are going to work 
together and make sure that we can take care of people 
regardless of the decisions that they decide to make on who 
they want to put into the White House. And I thank you for your 
service and I yield.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Fallon from 
Texas.
    Mr. Fallon. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know what? 
Listen, when a natural disaster hits, it is devastating for 
those who are affected. Their lives, their health, their well-
being, their livelihoods, they are all at risk, and it tosses 
their lives upside down. And in short, in the aftermath of 
these acts of God, we are going to find Americans at their most 
vulnerable, and they are desperate, and they need help. And 
FEMA is the one Federal Agency whose primary mission is to 
provide them that help, and the American taxpayers, as we all 
know, fund it, and it does not matter if you are a Democrat, it 
does not matter if you are a Republican. You are an American, 
and you pay taxes to ensure that you can be helped if, God 
forbid, that act of God occurred. And we do not help them by 
arbitrarily deciding if they support one particular candidate 
over another. That is not only immoral and wrong, it is 
criminal. It shatters the Hatch Act. And then we have a FEMA 
employee unfortunately,--I believe it is Marni Washington--who 
was purposely and deliberately withholding aid to Trump 
supporters. So, you are going to avoid those homes that had 
Trump signs. Director, fair to say that you were horrified when 
you learned of that?
    Administrator Criswell. It is completely unacceptable, and 
it was heartbreaking to hear that anybody that was impacted by 
this disaster potentially did not get the assistance they 
needed.
    Mr. Fallon. So, would you say that it was an isolated 
incident?
    Administrator Criswell. At this time, I have seen no other 
evidence that goes beyond Ms. Washington, but this is under 
continuing investigation.
    Mr. Fallon. So, it was not systemic? You do not feel it was 
systemic?
    Administrator Criswell. I understand the reports that this 
employee is making. However, the evidence that has been 
presented to me does not show that this is a widespread 
problem, but I want to be certain----
    Mr. Fallon. OK. Right.
    Administrator Criswell [continuing]. That this is not a 
widespread problem.
    Mr. Fallon. So, Ms. Washington disagreed, of course, and 
she said that she would have been scapegoated, and that FEMA, 
the Agency, prioritizes avoidance and de-escalation in 
situations where some employees may feel unsafe, like according 
to her, urban areas where there might be unleashed dogs. And I 
mean, the thing that gets me about that is, Director, you do 
not think that a Trump sign poses a danger akin to a runaway 
dog, right?
    Administrator Criswell. Of course not.
    Mr. Fallon. And I mean, that is ridiculous, and Trump 
supporters certainly should not be compared to or treated like 
unleashed dogs, nor should anybody, even somebody that 
supported Ms. Harris for President. And so, to determine 
whether or not this is systemic and this is imbued into the 
fabric of the Agency or not, would you agree that an 
independent investigation should be called for?
    Administrator Criswell. Absolutely.
    Mr. Fallon. And I think it was Representative Perry, and 
you had a discussion about that today. Was that right? I do not 
know if it was today, but----
    Administrator Criswell. It was this morning.
    Mr. Fallon. This morning, yes.
    Administrator Criswell. And, yes, and I have already 
reached out to the IG. We had been working with him, but I have 
directly asked them to perform an independent investigation.
    Mr. Fallon. I think that is great. The thing is, like, on a 
timeline basis, you had October 9, Milton reaches landfall and 
then the 24th, there was a whistleblower complaint; 28th, your 
legal staff found out about it, and we know for sure on the 7th 
that the higher-ups--did you find out about this earlier, or 
was it on the 7th?
    Administrator Criswell. I was in North Carolina on November 
7 when it was brought to my attention----
    Mr. Fallon. OK.
    Administrator Criswell [continuing]. That we had this 
potential issue. I asked my team to look into it and get me 
additional information. They presented me the written text of 
this employee, and then I directed the termination.
    Mr. Fallon. OK. So, did they present you the written text 
on the 7th?
    Administrator Criswell. On the 9th.
    Mr. Fallon. On the 9th, and that is when you fired her, on 
the 9th?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct, after I saw written 
evidence.
    Mr. Fallon. There was a Daily Wire article that happened to 
just hit on the 8th, and that was, like, national news, and 
then she was fired the very next day. I was just concerned 
about the fact that your legal staff knew on the 28th and this 
woman was not only continually being employed by FEMA, but also 
as a supervisor as well. And then, so you do agree that we 
should have an IG investigation, and I think that I also do, 
but that was not until today. Why the delay?
    Administrator Criswell. There was no delay. We have been 
working with the IG since this was brought to the Office of 
Professional Responsibility. They have been determining whether 
or not they were going to take this case, and I just directly 
asked them today.
    Mr. Fallon. So, you did not directly ask them--you could 
have directly asked them earlier though, fair to say?
    Administrator Criswell. Fair to say.
    Mr. Fallon. OK. But there was a delay of a couple of weeks.
    Administrator Criswell. We had to work with them, and we 
brought them into this.
    Mr. Fallon. OK. So, you know, it is interesting being on 
this Committee, Mr. Chairman, for 4 years. It seems no matter 
what we talk about, all roads lead back to Donald Trump, and 
for our friends across the aisle, he is the boogeyman Trump. We 
can be talking about 40-year high inflation, it is somehow 
Trump's fault. Twenty-year high interest rates, Trump. We are 
talking about a FEMA employee denying services to supporters of 
Donald Trump and that somehow all they want to talk about is 
Donald Trump--edited, cherry-picked, out of context 
information. I think that is called misinformation, if I am not 
mistaken. And it is unfortunate because here is the facts: that 
Donald Trump was President for 4 years and he approved 89 
disasters in states that opposed him, including 17 in 
California, more than any state. More than 80 percent of the 
disaster requests that President Trump denied came from 
Governors of states he won in 2016. And I am going to have a 
quote here from an expert. ``There is really no difference that 
I have seen,'' said Chad Berginnis, the Executive Director of 
the Association of State Floodplain Managers. That is truth in 
context. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair 
recognizes Ms. Tlaib from Michigan.
    Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Chairman. Administrator, 
thank you so much for being here. I know it has been a long 
day, but this is really important in regard to something that 
is happening in my community. I know you probably know I am 
from Michigan, and we have been hit hard the last 4 years as a 
result of storms and flooding. We had two declarations in the 
last 4 years for flooding. Many of my residents still currently 
struggle with ongoing emotional toll as well as the cost of 
flood damage, which they have yet to be able to recover to this 
day.
    In my district, though, residents live in housing that 
often do not have separate rooms, or what you call occupant 
rooms in the basement, and which triggers this exclusion that 
FEMA has right now of getting help when there is not somebody 
sleeping in the basement. This was very much a surprise to me 
because many of my seasoned residents who had flooding could 
not get access to be able to do the cleanup, which led to such 
terrible damage of their basement. And I would love to submit 
for the record, Chairman, article from BridgeDetroit, 
``Devastating Floods Leave Detroiters With Toxic Mold.''
    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
    Ms. Tlaib. And in this article, it talks about the fact 
that many of our homes, they would get all this coverage for 
all these other things except the basement, where the majority 
of the flooding left--you know, I have one resident, 90-year-
old woman in Northwest Detroit. If you walk into her home these 
days, especially at this time of the year, you will feel cool 
air coming from her kitchen to her living room. She will tell 
you that 6 months has passed since the last FEMA declared 
flood, and your heart sinks because she has no, literally 
resulting from the damage of the basement, drainage issues, no 
hot water, rising problems related to the mold and a broken 
furnace, right? And we are helping her as quickly as possible 
to try to see if there are any other community-based 
organizations. But the question then comes to my team and I is, 
why is this an exclusion, and would FEMA be open to working 
with Members of Congress in a bipartisan way? Because Michigan, 
we got basements, and we need to be able to have some sort of a 
remedy that it can be a livable home. Toxic mold is dangerous 
for any age, but especially my seasoned residents. They are on 
fixed income. They do not have the resources to take care of 
them.
    Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, the programs that we 
have in our individual assistance program, one, do not replace 
insurance. And when somebody is underinsured or uninsured, they 
do have access to FEMA financial assistance through our housing 
programs, but unfortunately, by statute, the only thing that we 
are allowed to provide financial assistance with is for primary 
living areas. And so that would be the financial assistance 
that they get.
    Ms. Tlaib. I want my colleagues to hear this, especially 
one colleague. I think there could be a bipartisan effort here 
because the basement helps make the rest of the house livable. 
That is where the utilities are, I mean, allowing the mold to 
continue to grow. I had a woman in Inkster who did not have the 
capacity to clean out and get the water out. It froze in the 
winter, causing even more damages to her home, and, 
Administrator, I know it is statute. I just wanted my 
colleagues to understand it. Also, Mr. Chair, for the record, 
to submit, ``After the Flood,'' article, again, continue to 
talk about the growing issue of flood and storms that are 
coming throughout, I think, Michigan again, impacted by the 
lack of, again, FEMA being able to cover or just be able to 
provide some sort of assistance for basements.
    Administrator Criswell. And Congresswoman, we would be 
happy to partner with you and provide technical drafting 
assistance, but right now, as you mentioned and as I mentioned, 
we are limited by statute on what we can provide financial 
assistance for, but we also work with our partners then.
    Ms. Tlaib. I know.
    Administrator Criswell. The SBA comes in.
    Ms. Tlaib. SBA is so hard. You want to tell one of my 
seasoned residents to get a loan from the Small Business 
Administration, they will roll your eyes, probably never talk 
to me again. I cannot do that to them. Even when I tell them 
they will work with you, thinking about even a lien on their 
home, they just do not want to go through that process. The 
other thing, Administrator, I think is really important. I want 
to know, and please get back to me, in those two declarations 
in Michigan, what was the rate of denial? Because I had to go 
through so many appeals with our families to get them the help 
that they needed from FEMA, and I thought to myself we are just 
denying folks. And then later, months later, but it takes so 
much effort to, again, get somebody to respond, help the family 
get the submission to appeal, and they actually get approved. 
But the initial denial, I just feel like we could be preventing 
that initial denial because it is devastating for a family. 
Some do not even know to call their Member of Congress for 
help.
    Administrator Criswell. We would be happy to get you that 
information. And I will just add that, you know, it frustrates 
me equally as much that the way our current system, the 
platform works, sends these letters out so quickly, when all we 
need to do often is get one additional piece of information. It 
is something that we can prioritize and trying to work on it.
    Ms. Tlaib. It is like a receipt or something. Yes, just 
tell the residents. We got to work on that, because denying 
them, they will walk away and they do not even try again.
    Administrator Criswell. I understand.
    Ms. Tlaib. And I go to my town halls, I go to different 
places, and they will say, ``well, FEMA denied me,'' and I 
said, ``did you try appealing?'' What do you mean? How do I do 
that? Again, I think we need a better process because we are a 
public government entity. We should not act like the for-profit 
insurance companies. We should be better at this. We should 
move with much, much more compassion. Thank you.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Timmons from 
South Carolina.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank 
Administrator Criswell for being here. You have been here a 
long time today. It is about 6. This is what, your 7th, 8th 
hour? We appreciate you being here to answer these questions. I 
do not think any of us believe that you are responsible for the 
conduct of some of the employees and/or leadership. Who knows, 
we are going to get to the bottom of that, but I just 
appreciate you being here today.
    You have gotten a lot of the same questions all day, and I 
am going to talk about something a little bit different. I am 
going to talk about the media and how it responded to this 
incident. So, on September 30, President Trump posts on X about 
reports of FEMA not helping Republican areas, stating, ``I 
don't like the reports that I am getting about the Federal 
Government going out of their way to not help people in 
Republican areas.'' And, you know, President Trump posts this 
on social media, and the mainstream media, quite frankly, lost 
their mind. So, let us just go over some of the responses. 
October 1, here we have MSNBC: ``What kind of would-be leader 
lies about a deadly natural disaster? When it comes to Donald 
Trump and Hurricane Helene, it is not a rhetorical question.'' 
Then we have New York Times: ``The Former President Falsely 
Accused the Biden Administration of Neglecting Areas That Had 
Voted for Republicans.'' Then we go to CNN: ``Trump cites 
baseless reports about anti-Republican bias in the North 
Carolina response.'' And then, finally, Vox on October 8, 
``Trump Falsely Suggested That Federal Government is Purposely 
Neglecting Areas With Republican Voters, But None of These 
Claims Are True.''
    So, it seems that at least one of them was true and 
possibly more. Ms. Washington was fired, allegedly for not 
providing relief to hurricane victims because of their 
political affiliation. We have documented that. I guess one 
question for you is, what exactly was she fired for? So, I 
mean, I guess the report is that she was terminated due to her 
actions not adhering to FEMA's values. Is that correct?
    Administrator Criswell. She was terminated once I saw the 
written evidence that she was withholding assistance to people 
in communities impacted by disasters because they had a Trump 
sign. This goes against our core values and is inappropriate 
behavior.
    Mr. Timmons. OK. I just want to be sure we understand 
because it sounds like a catch-all, the language of not 
adhering to FEMA's values. It is kind of similar to conduct 
unbecoming an officer in the UCMJ. But I guess my bigger issue 
is that FEMA did not cite a specific policy that she violated. 
So, is there a specific policy at FEMA that forbids 
discrimination of any kind or is this just a catch-all?
    Administrator Criswell. We definitely have policies that 
prohibit the discrimination of anybody, whether it is the 
delivery of our disaster programs or the delivery of our grant 
programs that support communities to be better prepared for the 
severe weather events that they are experiencing.
    Mr. Timmons. And as you should, and I appreciate that. And 
obviously, Ms. Washington has made a number of claims alleging 
that this is systemic and that this is something that is not an 
isolated incident. We just had another whistleblower allege 
that there is additional information. So, I guess, you have 
already agreed to keep all records of every kind to make sure 
that this Committee and that the American public is able to get 
to the bottom of whether this was Ms. Washington living out her 
own political fantasy or whether there was a systemic 
leadership-driven effort to deny relief to people that support 
President Trump. So, again, you can--you have already done it 
three to four times, probably 30 or 40 times. You can promise 
that you are going to keep all information, all data, all 
emails, all Teams messages for this Committee and for the 
American public to get to the bottom of this?
    Administrator Criswell. We archive all information as we 
have brought in the Inspector General and have been conducting 
our own investigation. All of that is available to them in the 
course of their investigation.
    Mr. Timmons. Well, thank you. It seems that we are going to 
find a number of other people that have engaged in similar 
behavior, and I can promise we will get to the bottom of all of 
it after January 20. So, I mean, you know, anybody that has 
engaged in this behavior at FEMA, I would encourage them to get 
their resume ready and find new jobs because a new day is 
coming. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair 
recognizes Ms. Stansbury from New Mexico.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, 
Administrator. I know it has been a very long day, and, 
actually, I am grateful for the commentary that was made just 
before I began this opportunity to ask some questions and talk 
about today's hearing because I think it is important to 
emphasize the statements that were just made that a new day is 
coming on January 20. And for any of you who are listening at 
home, what they are referring to is the inauguration day when 
the Trump Administration comes in and begins their purge of 
civil servants.
    And the reason why I am emphasizing that is because, yes, 
we are here to discuss a very serious matter, and absolutely, 
under no condition should politics be the reason why someone is 
denied basic dignity, access to emergency resources, and comity 
by our colleagues, whether that is emergency aid in their homes 
or access to the bathroom here in the Capitol. And so, I think 
it is important that we talk about what is actually motivating 
this hearing.
    Now, I want to take a moment. I am a former Federal 
employee. I used to work at OMB. Many people know that here on 
the Committee, but I think a lot of people do not fully 
understand what FEMA does, its emergency response. And I want 
to say thank you to you and all of your team during this 
summer's historic and catastrophic fires in my district, in 
Ruidoso and Mescalero Apache. You came to our district, your 
staff were on the ground immediately, and you deployed every 
possible resource, and I can tell you unequivocally, that it 
was the best response I have ever seen to a natural disaster in 
my lifetime. And I can tell my colleagues across the aisle, 
that area is very much an area that votes Republican, and those 
of us in New Mexico, we do not care. We do not care what your 
political affiliation is. We are going to show up. If you are 
in need, if you need help, if you are having an emergency, we 
are going to show up. We are going to help.
    And so, obviously, all of us are deeply disturbed to learn 
of this incident. It sounds like the person was disciplined and 
dismissed, and so we are grateful for that. But I find it odd 
that we are having a hearing where my colleagues have spent how 
many hours now 6, 8, I do not even know at this point--
gaslighting us. You know, like, here we are, we are having this 
hearing about an incident which is totally unacceptable, and 
yet the gentleman who is about to take office, the President-
elect, deliberately and outspokenly withheld aid from his 
political rivals from the state of California, from Puerto 
Rico, from communities that he knew did not vote for him. And 
so, I just find it bizarre that we are even having this 
hearing.
    And one of the things that I do think is important to 
emphasize is that this single most impactful thing that 
happened during those two hurricanes that happened in the 
October timeframe was the disinformation that dissuaded people 
in emergency situations from going and getting individual aid 
in their homes. I do not know how many people felt like they 
did not get direct service from FEMA or other emergency 
responders. But what we do know, because the data tells us, is 
that there was a disinformation campaign by the candidate who 
was running for President, Members of this Committee, who were 
spreading disinformation. And we know that thousands of people 
in North Carolina and across the South and in Florida did not 
even go and ask for assistance, even though they qualified for 
emergency assistance for housing, for hotels, for food, and 
things like that. So, if we want to talk about threats to 
emergency response, emergency management to our communities, 
let us talk about one of the biggest threats, which is 
disinformation and eating away at the emergency services that 
help our communities.
    And I want to just close on this note because I believe 
that the purpose of this Committee is actually the real pretext 
of what is going on here is that we know, as was just stated by 
my friend across the aisle, that on January 20, a new day is 
coming. And one of the things that we know is that a 
conservative agenda was put forward by the Heritage Foundation 
and others in Project 2025, and it called for the 
privatization, shrinking, and the doing away with certain parts 
of FEMA and emergency insurance. They are trying to distract 
from the fact that they know that is what is coming, that is 
part of the plan. They have not passed an emergency package 
that they were calling for to help our communities just a 
month-and-a-half ago, that suddenly, well, we cannot pass 
legislation because we do not need to get it done.
    So, I think it is really important that the American people 
understand what this is. We are going to have to fight to 
protect our Federal employees against what we know is going to 
be an active purge. And I want to say to all of you and to all 
of our first responders out there, thank you for the jobs that 
you do. Thank you for the lives that you save. We appreciate 
you so, so much, and we are going to fight for you.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Greene from 
Georgia.
    Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While Democrats are 
complaining about this lengthy hearing and about President 
Trump coming in and slashing and reducing the size of 
government, I just want to say, let the purge begin because 
there are people that are homeless right now in Western North 
Carolina, Eastern Tennessee, Georgia, and misinformation is not 
the most dangerous thing facing us. It is right now pretty much 
the Federal Government and the failure to the American people. 
Ms. Criswell, first off, let us put this up.
    [Chart]
    Ms. Greene. This is the strategic plan you have posted on 
the FEMA website. ``The goal and objectives laid out in the 
2022-2026 strategic plan will help ensure success for our 
Agency, the emergency management community, and those we serve. 
The Plan outlines three bold ambitious goals.'' To meet this 
challenge, you have listed as No. 1, instill equity as a 
foundation of emergency management. Two, lead whole-of-
community in climate resilience. Three, promote and sustain a 
ready FEMA and prepared Nation. Ms. Criswell, in FEMA's 
strategic plan document that you crafted, you say, ``We must 
instill equity as a foundation of emergency management. Systems 
that foster inequality serve no one, especially in times of 
crisis. We must recognize that disasters affect individuals and 
communities differently, commit ourselves to reducing barriers 
to access, and deliver equitable outcomes for all whom we 
serve.'' The documents adds, ``underserved communities, as well 
as specific identity groups, often suffer disproportionately 
from disasters.'' However, thanks to whistleblowers that came 
out, we found out that Trump supporters were also suffering, 
apparently worse than others, because their homes were skipped 
over.
    And I know you said that you fired the employee that 
skipped the homes that had Trump signs, but, you know, we do 
not believe that was a one-time incidence, and now we know 
there is another whistleblower that has come forward and said 
that this happened in another state. And you see, the reason 
why Americans do not believe this is a one-time situation is 
because they are used to being treated as if they are second-
class citizens by the Biden Administration. Not only has this 
happened in FEMA, when they were suffering under horrific 
conditions after this hurricane, it has happened through the 
Department of Justice, where the Department of Justice has been 
used against pro-life activists, parents holding their school 
boards accountable, and people that protested the election on 
January 6. This Biden Administration, as a matter of fact, you 
talk about equity, has treated half of this country and our 
beliefs and how we feel completely inequitable.
    So, on that note, I also want to bring up that you also 
said, ``In administering our mitigation programs, we will keep 
equity considerations top of mind, and we will include them in 
the competitive scoring process for programs such as flood 
mitigation assistance.'' What exactly is this scoring process 
that you use when you are choosing organizations to give FEMA 
funds to?
    Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, we have a number of 
competitive grant programs that provide assistance across a 
variety of areas. The ones that you are speaking of are part of 
our mitigation program where we want to build resilience in 
these communities so they can be stronger against some of the 
impacts from the severe weather events we are seeing, but we 
know that many communities do not have paid staff to write 
grants. They do not have the resources to be competitive 
against the larger urban areas. And so, we want to make sure 
everybody, again, has access to the programs that we offer and 
that we reduce those barriers to make sure that they come in on 
a level playing field and can get access to make their 
communities stronger.
    Ms. Greene. Well, in the Fiscal Year of 2023, FEMA spent 
nearly $1 billion, $789 million, to shelter illegals in the 
United States. This past year it was about $641 million, and 
this money largely is distributed through NGO's. Here is a 
whole list of them.
    [Chart]
    Ms. Greene. I know it may be hard to see from there, but 
this is a whole list of cities, states, and NGO's that received 
millions and millions of dollars from FEMA. And this was to 
house illegal aliens, not Americans, who, by the way, all that 
money right there, that comes from Americans' bank accounts 
when they write their checks to pay their taxes. Do you think 
it is acceptable for billions of American taxpayer dollars to 
be spent on housing people invading our country, but yet 
Americans in North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida are still 
homeless and have yet to fully receive support?
    Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, we have been 
directed----
    Ms. Greene. Is that equitable?
    Administrator Criswell. We have been directed by Congress 
to administer the shelter and services program. If Congress 
chooses to change that direction, we will follow that law.
    Ms. Greene. Congress is changing that direction, 
absolutely. We are going to put American citizens first, not 
migrants, because we do not believe that is equitable. You see, 
the situation, housing illegal aliens, while Americans suffer, 
with Americans taxpayer dollars, that is not equitable. As a 
matter of fact, that is the biggest failure that could be ever 
done to the American people. It is such a failure, it should be 
treason, and that is how the American people feel. As a matter 
of fact, regular people are so outraged, they are pissed, 
furious at the fact that they feel completely failed by FEMA 
that is funded by their money, and yet their own money went to 
house illegal aliens that have invaded this country. Americans 
are dead today because of the failures of our border, and FEMA 
took care of these people. You see that we cannot allow that to 
happen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Pressley from 
Massachusetts.
    Ms. Pressley. Administrator Criswell, thank you for your 
stamina here today. It is good to see you again. Thank you for 
joining us today and for your leadership. In the face of 
repeated climate disasters, mass violence, and humanitarian 
crises, the workers of FEMA represent the very best of public 
service and deserve the support of Congress. Attempts by 
Republicans--many of whom are climate and science deniers, in 
the face of a frequency of events that were once anomalies, but 
I digress--attempts by Republicans to question the integrity of 
FEMA workers is a direct attack on FEMA's mission. Its mission 
is especially vital for our constituents, many of whom face not 
only the loss of homes and livelihoods, but also lasting 
emotional and psychological trauma in the wake of such profound 
loss.
    Ms. Criswell, Administrator, 2 years ago, my bill, the 
Post-Disaster Mental Health Response Act, was signed into law 
by President Biden. It expands mental health supports during 
emergency declarations. Survivors, in my opinion, deserve not 
only to heal, but to thrive, and this law moves us closer to 
that. As someone who is deeply committed to addressing trauma, 
I am proud to have partnered with you and FEMA in this fight. 
Bearing this in mind, can you expound, Administrator Criswell, 
on how FEMA is incorporating long-term mental health care into 
its recovery plans to support the survivors of recent 
hurricanes?
    Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, I appreciate your 
partnership in pushing that bill forward because the impact 
that these citizens have after a disaster is traumatizing, and 
what we do not want to do is re-traumatize them with the 
delivery of our programs. We have worked with our teams to 
institute a trauma-informed care approach so we can understand 
better how a community feels and how a community is reacting to 
the impacts from the severe weather event.
    We also have teams that go out into the field because our 
staff also get traumatized with the day-in and day-out 
conversations with people who have lost everything, and it 
affects them personally, many of them survivors from previous 
storms themselves. And so, this holistic mental health support 
is so critical, and we have to de-stigmatize mental health 
support in a way that encourages our staff, but also survivors, 
to get the help that they need.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Administrator Criswell. When we 
focus on healing, that is right, we do have to also acknowledge 
the work of the healer, who is healing the healer? So, FEMA 
workers themselves are exposed to immense stress and trauma 
during their services, and as Mr. Moskowitz was alluding to 
earlier, there is high fatigue and burnout and low morale 
because these are extenuating circumstances with which to be 
proximate to. What resources or initiatives does FEMA provide 
to support the mental health of its own personnel after a 
disaster?
    Administrator Criswell. We have taken this very seriously 
and we have our own mental health advisor at headquarters, but 
we have also put in mental health advisors in each of our 
regional offices. And we send teams out into the communities, 
into our disaster recovery centers and our joint field offices 
to make sure we are taking care of our people. And even back at 
headquarters, we will do stand-downs to make sure that we are 
providing the assistance that they need, making sure they know 
the resources that are available to them, and that when we ask 
somebody, how are you doing, we are not just doing it in 
passing and we are really listening so we can understand the 
stress that they may be going through and encouraging them to 
take a break if you need a break, but come back so you can help 
these people.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you for recognizing the importance of 
that work and for your continued partnership. Now, my district, 
the Massachusetts 7th, relies heavily on FEMA in times of 
crisis. That is why earlier this year, I was proud to work with 
municipal leaders to secure $2.5 million for the Cambridge 
Community Center Resilience Hub and the Mill Creek Resilience 
Program in Chelsea, and the Island End River Resilience Project 
in Everett. Administrator Criswell, while I understand there 
are many priorities before the new Administration steps in, can 
I have your commitment that FEMA will work to quickly get these 
funds to my district, and can you follow up with a point of 
contact I can connect with to follow through on this?
    Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, we will certainly 
follow up with you on the status of those programs and see 
where they are at and what we can do to move them along.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you. Like every district represented in 
this hearing room, the Massachusetts 7th depends on FEMA's 
ability to do its job. We cannot turn the Agency into a 
political game. Instead, we must ensure FEMA and its workers 
have the resources, respect, and public confidence they need to 
continue their work. Our constituents deserve nothing less. 
Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mrs. McClain. 
Before I recognize Mrs. McClain, we want to publicly 
congratulate Mrs. McClain for being elected the Majority Caucus 
Conference Chair. That is a big deal, a big high-ranking 
leader. We have an all-star cast of Members in both parties, 
especially on our side of the aisle. So, congratulations, 
Chairwoman.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
    Chairman Comer. And we recognize you for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so 
much.
    There has been a pattern of discrimination, and I think 
from what I have listened to, you want to clean it up today, 
right? You do not approve of what happened. Neither side 
approves of what happened. I mean, we have seen the 
weaponization of the Justice Department against President 
Trump, the Department of Education investigate religious-
affiliated universities, the DOJ and FBI targeted parents at 
school board meetings, blah, blah, blah, goes on and on and on, 
right? And I think we all want to clean it up, right? Would you 
agree with that?
    Administrator Criswell. Discrimination should never be 
tolerated.
    Mrs. McClain. One hundred percent. I appreciate that. Now, 
there is a confirmed discrimination against conservatives at 
FEMA, right? So, I just want to put up this timeline to make 
sure I have everything correct, right?
    [Chart]
    Mrs. McClain. October 22, verbal guidance was given by Ms. 
Washington to skip over, for lack of better words, Trump homes, 
anybody that has a Trump sign. October 24, the whistleblower 
comes forward. October 27, the Teams message that we have seen 
was sent out. Twenty-eight of October, the complaint received 
by FEMA's legal staff, and October 8, the story became public. 
And then on November 9, you became aware of it and terminated 
her position, correct?
    Administrator Criswell. I think we are missing one step in 
there, Congresswoman. I was made aware of it on November 7.
    Mrs. McClain. November 7.
    Administrator Criswell. I cannot see down below.
    Mrs. McClain. Yes, it is not up here. November 7, and the 
story became public on the 8th, and then on the 9th, right? I 
am sure you had----
    Administrator Criswell. I was made aware of it on November 
7. I directed my team to get me additional information. They 
presented that to me on November 9, which is when I directed 
the termination of the employee.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you. Did Ms. Washington receive a 
severance package?
    Administrator Criswell. I would have to check. I do not 
know.
    Mrs. McClain. When could you get back to us? So, you have 
no idea?
    Administrator Criswell. I do not know what the terms of her 
termination were.
    Mrs. McClain. Who would?
    Administrator Criswell. I would have to check with my 
mission support team.
    Mrs. McClain. Your mission support team, OK. So, who gave 
Ms. Washington the authority to give the verbal guidance?
    Administrator Criswell. I do not know what motivated Ms. 
Washington to give that guidance. The direction that she gave 
was unacceptable and did not align with the way we conduct our 
business to help the American people.
    Mrs. McClain. What was her title?
    Administrator Criswell. Crew lead.
    Mrs. McClain. Crew lead, and how many crew leads did you 
have?
    Administrator Criswell. We had several crew leads. I would 
have to get back to you with a specific number, but it is one 
of the lowest levels of supervision we have.
    Mrs. McClain. So, Ms. Washington had a supervisor?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Mrs. McClain. And maybe even a supervisor above that 
supervisor, right?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Mrs. McClain. There may be layers upon layers. OK. Why do 
you think she felt empowered to give that guidance?
    Administrator Criswell. I cannot speak to what motivated 
her to give that guidance. What I can say is I was made aware 
of this on November 7. It was not acceptable behavior. When I 
was given the written evidence of her direction on November 9, 
we directed her termination.
    Mrs. McClain. Who is her supervisor?
    Administrator Criswell. I do not know specifically who her 
supervisor is. I know that this individual, Chad, that is in 
her supervisory chain, but I do not know if that was her 
specific supervisor.
    Mrs. McClain. Have you done an investigation on this since 
November 9?
    Administrator Criswell. We are currently doing an 
investigation.
    Mrs. McClain. Currently doing.
    Administrator Criswell. It started on October 28 and it was 
referred to the Office of Special Counsel.
    Mrs. McClain. So, as of October 28, we have done a bunch of 
investigations, but we have no idea who her supervisor is?
    Administrator Criswell. No, I said I personally do not know 
who her specific supervisor is. I have an Agency of over 22,000 
employees. I do not know the supervisor.
    Mrs. McClain. And you have supervisors underneath you. Do 
you know if anything happened to her supervisor?
    Administrator Criswell. This is currently under 
investigation. The only written evidence we had is from Ms. 
Washington.
    Mrs. McClain. So, we terminated Ms. Washington 3 weeks 
after you were made aware of it. Thank God that you were made 
aware of it or this pattern could have continuously gone on 
because we have layers upon layers, right? You have 22,000 
people. I am sure you have a lot of middle management, right? 
So, you have a crew lead. I do not know what your hierarchical 
structure is, but you have layers of management before it gets 
to you, correct?
    Administrator Criswell. We follow a very----
    Mrs. McClain. That is a pretty simple question. Do you have 
layers of management before it gets to you?
    Administrator Criswell. We follow a very, you know----
    Mrs. McClain. That is a great answer.
    Administrator Criswell [continuing]. Accepted chain of 
command practice.
    Mrs. McClain. Wonderful. So, I will use your word. You have 
a chain of command before it gets to you, but you have no clue 
about what has happened to that chain of command and why 
somebody would let that happen under their watch. Do you think 
that is worthy of investigating?
    Administrator Criswell. I absolutely think it is worthy.
    Mrs. McClain. Wonderful. So, when can I expect a report on 
what has happened to those people?
    Administrator Criswell. Which is why I have directed the IG 
to investigate this.
    Mrs. McClain. When can we expect that report? What 
consequences would you expect for a supervisor who knew this 
was going on? Would you expect them to be terminated as well?
    Administrator Criswell. We have an ongoing investigation, 
and if we find any evidence that shows that there are 
additional violations of the way we conduct our business, we 
will certainly take appropriate action to terminate----
    Mrs. McClain. And would appropriate action be termination?
    Administrator Criswell. Through termination.
    Mrs. McClain. Wonderful. And when can we expect this 
report?
    Administrator Criswell. And we have asked the IG to do this 
report, and I can connect with them.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Goldman from New York.
    Mr. Goldman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make 
sure I understand what 4 hours and 20 minutes of fuss is about. 
Ms. Washington was a crew lead charged with helping to provide 
assistance to individuals in the following of the hurricane. Is 
that right?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Mr. Goldman. OK. You said that FEMA has 22,000 employees?
    Administrator Criswell. More than.
    Mr. Goldman. More than 22,000, OK. And as I understand it, 
as soon as you saw verified, written evidence that Ms. 
Washington used partisanship in executing her job, you 
immediately terminated her?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Mr. Goldman. And you are now doing an investigation to 
determine whether anyone else was involved in this?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Mr. Goldman. Seems like that is the right thing to do. You 
have a bad apple out of 22,000, and you identified it, and you 
fired it. I do not understand what the massive fuss here is. It 
is obviously, as you say, unacceptable conduct and you acted 
immediately. So, I have not been in here all day, but I have 
heard the same questions 5 times myself. I am sure you have 
heard them many more times, but it does beg the question about 
what happens to FEMA if partisanship bleeds into its mission, 
and I want to bring up two examples from the last 
Administration.
    Hurricane Maria, you may recall, in September 2017, hit 
Puerto Rico, resulting in nearly 3,000 deaths. Donald Trump was 
President then, and he blocked the full release of the 
emergency assistance appropriated by Congress in 2018, and 
permitted only a small percentage of the money to go to the 
island. He insisted that Puerto Rico was not in need of that 
assistance and alleged that the death tolls had been 
politically inflated ``to make me look as bad as possible.'' In 
November 2018, California suffered the most destructive and 
deadliest wildfire in the state's history. Donald Trump, 
according to his own former National Security Council staffer, 
refused to approve disaster aid because the state of California 
had a Democratic Governor and did not vote for him. In fact, 
this former staffer had to go and pull out the voting records 
from Orange County, where the fire was, to show Donald Trump 
that Orange County had more supporters for Trump than the 
entire state of Iowa, so that he would ultimately release the 
funding. Now, that appears to me to inject partisanship in 
administering disaster relief. Is that your understanding of 
what I just recited to you, Ms. Criswell?
    Administrator Criswell. I was not the FEMA Administrator 
during that time, and I would not care to comment on that.
    Mr. Goldman. Well, I think it is pretty self-evident that 
that is exactly what it was, and this now has continued in the 
recent disasters. We are here focused on one rogue employee who 
was justifiably and correctly fired, but Donald Trump went on a 
misinformation campaign to slander your organization. He at one 
point said that President Biden was sleeping and he was not 
responding to Georgia Governor Brian Kemp. Brian Kemp 
responded, ``The President just called me yesterday afternoon, 
and I missed him, and I called him right back. And he just 
said, hey, what do you need, and I told him, you know, we have 
got what we need. We will work through the Federal process.'' 
How about this one? Governor Ron DeSantis, ``Everything we have 
asked for from President Biden, he has approved, and we do 
think we will get more approvals.'' Republican Governor Brian 
Kemp of Georgia, ``We got what we need from FEMA. We have had 
FEMA embedded with us since, you know, a day or two before the 
storm hit.'' Governor Glenn Youngkin, Republican of Virginia, 
``I am incredibly appreciative of the rapid response and the 
cooperation from the Federal team at FEMA.'' Yet Donald Trump 
was spreading misinformation that FEMA was not doing its job.
    And then, the last few seconds, I would like for you to 
explain how that misinformation hindered FEMA's efforts to 
provide disaster relief to those in need.
    Administrator Criswell. Any type of misinformation that 
creates some type of mistrust in the Federal Government creates 
a lack of opportunity for individuals that have been impacted 
by these disasters to get the assistance that they need and 
that they are eligible for. And we want to be able to reach out 
to everybody that has been impacted and assure them that we are 
there to support them. They should register for assistance, and 
we can work with them to help them on their road to recovery.
    Mr. Goldman. And do you think that there were some people 
who did not receive disaster assistance because of this 
misinformation by Donald Trump?
    Administrator Criswell. We will never know if there are 
people that should have applied and did not, but there is the 
possibility that individuals may not have applied for 
assistance because of what they were reading across social 
medium.
    Mr. Goldman. Well, there are plenty of publications and 
media reports about that being the case, and it is a terrific 
shame, and thank you very much, Administrator Criswell, for all 
of your hard work during difficult times. I yield back.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Boebert from 
Colorado.
    Ms. Boebert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Criswell, I 
appreciate you being here today. My colleague from Tennessee, 
Congressman Tim Burchett, had asked you about funding for 
illegals, those who have come into our country, entered our 
country illegally, and who are present for some of these 
storms. And under oath you stated that that only American 
citizens could apply for additional funding through FEMA. Do 
you stand by that?
    Administrator Criswell. American citizens and eligible 
legal aliens can----
    Ms. Boebert. Legal aliens, those who have come through the 
ports of entry legally and have their green card or anything 
else. Well, we have illegal aliens who have entered our 
country, and FEMA itself has reported $380 million in 
additional funding to communities receiving migrants. FEMA 
awards $110 million to the Emergency Food and Shelter Program 
to assist migrants. Another FEMA notification: ``Department of 
Homeland Security Announces Distribution of More Than $77 
Million in congressional Funding for Communities Receiving 
Migrants.'' Politico says, ``New York City to Get $104.6 
Million From FEMA,'' and the list goes on and on. Even the U.S. 
Embassy in El Salvador chimed in, and so I would say that there 
is a quite a bit of money going toward illegal aliens.
    And Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask for this to be 
submitted into the record, these headlines here.
    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
    Ms. Boebert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Now, Ms. Criswell, we 
have heard that Ms. Washington said that she is being used as a 
scapegoat, and I kind of lean to believe that because here 
today we have this list of chain of commands. We have 
supervisors who are all around her, yet we cannot point to any 
specific supervisor who is being held accountable here. We have 
heard that there is an investigation. We hear about 
investigations all the time. Ms. Criswell, I have people sit 
here in front of this Committee and tell us all about 
investigations, and then we never receive any information from 
that. We have seen the devastation of American citizens who 
have been impacted by these hurricanes and they want answers. 
So, is Ms. Washington being used as a scapegoat for carrying 
out the directive to not go to homes with Trump signs?
    Administrator Criswell. I received information on November 
7 that there was an employee that had directed homes with Trump 
signs and avoided----
    Ms. Boebert. Correct, and you terminated her, but are there 
others who are going to be held accountable? Now, let me ask 
you this. OK. You have the investigation that is been asked of 
you. What are you going to do to preserve this investigation 
and ensure that it continues in the next administration?
    Administrator Criswell. We will fully cooperate with the IG 
if they choose to take on this investigation. It has also been 
elevated to the Office of Special Counsel.
    Ms. Boebert. Sorry, my time is running out. And in this 
internal investigation or outside, if you never find anyone who 
is actually culpable for this, are you going to take any blame?
    Administrator Criswell. We are conducting ongoing 
investigations----
    Ms. Boebert. Are you going to take any blame if no one is 
found?
    Administrator Criswell. If we find anyone that has been 
violating the way we deliver assistance, we will take 
appropriate actions.
    Ms. Boebert. I will move on. I am sorry, you are not 
answering my question directly. So, this is a culture that the 
Biden Administration has allowed to cultivate as, and I believe 
that you are a part of this, as FEMA. And I would hope that you 
would take responsibility for allowing your employees to 
discriminate those who they help based on politics rather than 
just dismissing it on an investigation. Now, are there barriers 
within FEMA between public and private partnerships or 
relationships, or is FEMA only focused on blocking resources 
from Trump supporters? Can private citizens help in an 
emergency?
    Administrator Criswell. The actions of one individual are 
not representative of the way FEMA delivers programs.
    Ms. Boebert. Can FEMA work with private citizens in an 
emergency to get resources to American citizens?
    Administrator Criswell. I think you would have to give me 
some specific examples of what you mean.
    Ms. Boebert. OK. So, we have Elon Musk. He said, ``My blood 
is boiling.'' Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit for the 
record this article that was printed in regard to Elon Musk as 
being furious over FEMA blocking SpaceX engineers.
    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
    Ms. Boebert. So, when Elon Musk is furious that he cannot 
get Starlink delivered to folks; when I have Congressman Cory 
Mills who has to deploy a mission team to bring 26 systems of 
Starlink to those who are suffering; when the missing persons 
list is 1,500 people before Starlink is brought to them by a 
sitting Member of Congress, not by FEMA, and that number goes 
down to 600 once communication is able to begin; when a Member 
of Congress has to bring 23,000 pounds of supplies; when Elon 
Musk is saying we want to get internet, we want to get 
connectivity and communication to citizens, we want to bring 
supplies, and yet FEMA is blocking supplies, FEMA is seizing 
supplies; when I have a senior high school student from Rifle, 
Colorado, Cody Wyatt, who is driving across country to get 
supplies because FEMA has not been seen in 11 days in North 
Carolina or in Pensacola, Florida; when they are not present, 
can citizens help or is FEMA going to continue to block private 
citizens and refuse to help those based on their political 
affiliation?
    Administrator Criswell. FEMA has never blocked any 
assistance from moving around any of the states that were 
impacted. In fact, when Mr. Musk released that statement, we 
had over 70 Starlink satellite terminals in and around North 
Carolina, exceeding what he had already said.
    Ms. Boebert. For 11 days, Congressman Cory Mills did not 
see a single FEMA representative or truck, and I have witnesses 
as well in Florida who did not see any help from FEMA for days. 
I would like there to be----
    Administrator Criswell. We were on the ground before the 
disaster started.
    Ms. Boebert. We will see in your investigation.
    Administrator Criswell. You can read in my testimony.
    Ms. Boebert. We will see in your investigation if it is 
ever released.
    Administrator Criswell. I have details in my testimony, my 
written testimony, that shows our exact response. You can read 
the details there.
    Chairman Comer. Before, I recognize Mr. Burlison, the 
Ranking Member has a unanimous consent request.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Three articles here 
from Reuters, an article dated October 23, ``Fact Check: FEMA 
Disaster Funds Not Diverted to Migrants By Biden 
Administration;'' Washington Post, October 4, 2024, ``No, Biden 
Did Not Take FEMA Relief Money to Use on Migrants, But Donald 
Trump Did;'' and from Axios, an article dated August 27, 2019, 
entitled, ``Trump Reallocates $155 Million From FEMA Disaster 
Relief to Fund Ice;'' and then finally, one other one, which is 
a FEMA press release from October 1, 2024, entitled ``DHS 
Announces $210 Million of Additional Funds to Protect Faith-
Based Institutions and Non-Profits Against Targeted Attacks.'' 
Thanks so much.
    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
    Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Burlison from 
Missouri.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Chairman Comer, and, Ms. Criswell, 
thank you for being here with us today. The underlying facts 
behind why we are here has got me thinking about, you know, how 
did we end up at this point, and I think it did not happen 
overnight. This is not just one anecdotal story. This is a part 
of a long list of grievances that the American people have 
experienced. The whole thing is just very, very familiar. The 
names change, the agencies change, the bureaucrats change, but 
the people on the receiving end of it are still the same. You 
see, the bigger the government, the smaller the individual, and 
it is these individuals who feel like, they do not feel like 
it, but they have been told that they are garbage and they are 
treated like garbage. And when the President of the United 
States uses words like, you know, like has been used--
``deplorables,'' ``garbage,'' ``Nazis''--then one can expect 
your agencies to treat people in the way in which you are 
talking about them.
    As you know, we have a FEMA supervisor that expressly 
directed volunteers to go door-to-door offering assistance, to 
bypass the homes that had Trump campaign signs. These are 
American citizens. These are taxpayers. These are our 
countrymen and women who just lost everything, all their 
possessions, and they are being treated like garbage.
    And look, I know that you have said, and I think you have 
done well today, that political discrimination is not tolerated 
within the Agency. But it looks to me, and I think it is clear 
to a lot of Americans, that they feel the same way after the 
election earlier this month, and I think that is why the 
election results ended up the way they did because it is the 
sentiment of the American people. Because they feel like they 
can relate to the guy who went through all of what was clearly 
a weaponized prosecution for--whether it is the Department of 
Justice, the American citizens see that while he is being 
attacked by the Department of Justice, they have been attacked. 
We had concerned parents at school board meetings labeled as 
terrorists. We had Catholics labeled as terrorists. We had 
excessive sentences handed out for pro-life activists, and we 
had the aggressive targeting of President Biden's political 
opponents while slow-walking the Hunter Biden criminal 
investigation.
    And this is not new, because during the Obama years, we had 
the IRS was used to target conservative groups, remember? I 
mean, we had Lois Lerner and that Agency stopping the attempts 
for groups that had the word ``Tea Party'' or ``Patriot `` from 
being able to get tax-exempt status, or how about during COVID 
when the Biden Administration pressured social media platforms 
to censor ``disinformation about COVID-19,'' including 
alternative treatment options, or their concerns were forced 
vaccinations or if somebody had the idea that it leaked from a 
U.S. Government-funded coronavirus lab in Wuhan rather than 
some animal in a wet market.
    The American people, who have been called garbage, we saw a 
Federal Government do more to stop the distribution of 
ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine than it did fentanyl. We saw 
all of these and more. We saw rent-a-riot campaigns like BLM 
and Antifa not being prosecuted for all of their fires and 
destruction, but yet when conservatives have a protest, it is 
called an insurrection, and grandmas and grandpas who supported 
Trump are still being thrown in jail. We saw financial 
institutions work with law enforcement to mark Americans as 
domestic terror threats for buying religious texts or firearms 
or supporting Donald Trump. There are so many other examples. 
Trump, himself, has been attacked by the Department of 
Justice--Jack Smith, Fani Willis, all this lawfare. We have the 
FBI censoring information about the Hunter Biden laptop. We 
have the Democratic Party laundering fraudulent oppo research, 
like the bogus Steele dossier, to journalists, and the 
intelligence agencies all back them up, siding with a 
particular political party. The whole thing was so absurd and 
stupid, but again, this culture of political bias against 
conservatives and Trump is how this is cultivated.
    The American people want and they deserve their government 
to be non-partisan. They want their government to be fair. They 
want justice to be blind. And they are frustrated when they see 
their government weaponized against them because they dare to 
support the guy who said let us drain the swamp. And so, this 
did not happen overnight. It came from a long litany of events 
where some Americans were treated like garbage, and I cannot 
wait for DOGE, the Department of Government Efficiency, to get 
in under the next Administration and start making this 
government work more efficiently, because this town does need a 
purge. This town needs an enema, and honestly, I cannot wait. 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair 
recognizes Mr. Higgins from Louisiana.
    Mr. Higgins. Difficult testimony to follow.
    Chairman Comer. That is a tough act.
    Mr. Higgins. Ms. Criswell, I thank you for being before us 
today. Mr. Chairman, I have to say, to my colleagues on both 
sides of the aisle, I have had extensive communications and 
interactions with Ms. Criswell's team, and she has personally 
responded to many of my official inquires. We have worked 
through hundreds and hundreds of very complicated claims after 
Hurricanes Laura and Delta that hit the heart of my district in 
the middle of COVID. It was the worst thing you could possibly 
imagine. Very powerful hurricanes, a Category 5 and a Category 
4, back-to-back, 1 month apart in the summer of 2020. It was 
incredibly difficult to respond to, and so I am just going to 
say that through the course of the years, I have found that Ms. 
Criswell's team has been about as responsive as you can find 
any large bureaucracy anywhere in the world. And I would 
challenge any colleagues that would question the good lady's 
character because I have found her character to be fine. She 
runs an organization that many of us are almost paid to hate, 
you know, but it is 22,000 employees, which sometimes things 
can get out of hand. But I have to say, ma'am, that your 
response to my office through the years has been as excellent 
as it can be under difficult circumstances.
    Ma'am, when FEMA interacts with a particular government 
entity or private entity after a disaster, and planning is made 
and funding is shared for rebuilding, sometimes extensions for 
work are required. Is that correct?
    Administrator Criswell. Correct.
    Mr. Higgins. If the schedule for reconstruction is 
interrupted by supply chains and workforce restrictions, things 
like that, the entity that is in partnership with FEMA to 
restore their services, they have the opportunity to ask for an 
extension, correct?
    Administrator Criswell. Yes.
    Mr. Higgins. OK. I have a letter, Mr. Chairman, and request 
unanimous consent to submit, from Lake Charles Harbor and 
Terminal District regarding just such a request for extension 
for permanent work to be performed and I would ask that your 
office taken it into full consideration, ma'am.
    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
    Administrator Criswell. Absolutely, Senator--Congressman.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you, ma'am. I will deliver that to you. 
This deal with--it was just outrageous, these reports that we 
had of a FEMA employee bypassing Trump supporters. I found it 
to be outrageous. How did it strike you, ma'am?
    Administrator Criswell. It is completely unacceptable, and 
it is heartbreaking to know that anybody impacted by Hurricanes 
Helene or Milton would have not been given the opportunity to 
get the assistance that they are eligible for.
    Mr. Higgins. Do the people of North Carolina, and Florida, 
and Georgia, and South Carolina, and Tennessee have your 
unwavering commitment to do everything in your power to help 
them recover?
    Administrator Criswell. Absolutely. We will be with all of 
these communities every step of the way throughout their 
recovery.
    Mr. Higgins. OK. So, I think it is fair that we hold you to 
that commitment, don't you?
    Administrator Criswell. Yes.
    Mr. Higgins. Yes, ma'am. And regarding this behavior out of 
this employee, I think you handled that. I mean, you discovered 
the behavior on 1 day, you confirmed the behavior the next day, 
and you fired your employee the following day, and then you 
initiated an investigation to look for what, if there is 
anything deeper, like some cultural existence that you are not 
aware of this type of behavior. Is that what your investigation 
is seeking?
    Administrator Criswell. We are doing additional 
investigations to be certain where the direction came from, and 
if we find----
    Mr. Higgins. If you find more of that, will more people get 
fired?
    Administrator Criswell. If we find any additional evidence 
that there was discrimination against a political party----
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you. Quickly, you had to question how 
she came to that. Could you address for us, please, what she 
meant when she said avoidance first and then de-escalation, and 
that she mentioned avoidance several times in her statement. 
What is that within FEMA?
    Administrator Criswell. Our teams go into the field and go 
into communities door-to-door and talk to people, and we 
provide them safety training. It is a reactive training if they 
feel threatened or harassed in any way that, first, they need 
to avoid that harassing situation, and if needed----
    Mr. Higgins. But have you ever instructed any of your 
people to, like, presume there is going to be conflict and, 
therefore, avoid a particular type of citizen?
    Administrator Criswell. This training is all about reacting 
to perceived threats. Never has it been directed to be 
proactive----
    Mr. Higgins. All right.
    Administrator Criswell [continuing]. To avoid a situation.
    Mr. Higgins. Mr. Chairman, thank you for this hearing. My 
time has expired. I yield. Thank you, ma'am.
    Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields. The Chair recognizes 
Mr. Langworthy from New York.
    Mr. Langworthy. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 
Administrator Criswell, the reports of this FEMA employee 
directing volunteers to bypass properties of Trump supporters 
is an absolutely disgusting affront to the mission of FEMA in 
the trust of the American people in all of their Federal 
Government. FEMA exists to serve all Americans at times in 
their darkest hours, in their times of crisis, and this has got 
to be delivered without bias or favoritism or despite any level 
of discrimination. Yet here we are discussing allegations that 
there was political discrimination tainting FEMA's response.
    I mean, I really appreciate you being as forthright as you 
have been today, but after Hurricanes Helene and Milton, 
countless Americans lost their homes, their businesses, and 
their livelihoods. Their worlds were turned upside down, and 
FEMA should have been the lifeline. It should be a beacon of 
hope for any community that has been ravaged by disaster. And 
if this situation was flipped and this was happening to those 
that supported Kamala Harris, the outrage across this country 
would have been deafening. You know, the media would have been 
going crazy, yet we did not have that same level of outrage.
    This is symptomatic of a dangerous and growing culture of 
bias throughout this entire Federal Government, and I would 
hope that FEMA would be the last Agency to ever contribute to 
that, because you truly are dealing with American citizens at 
their darkest hour. We need to be about Americans helping 
Americans, period, end of story, no matter where you are, where 
you come from, or who you support for President of United 
States. When disaster response has been corrupted by political 
bias and gamesmanship, the American public's faith in this 
Federal Government gets broken permanently. And it is really 
tough to erase that stain.
    So, I take you at face value that, you know, you are a 
person of action, you want to fix this. But what bothers me is 
how this employee got to this moment and what culture existed 
around them where they thought it was OK to guide other 
employees to say, no, skip those houses. I mean, are you aware 
of any of your employees that felt that Trump supporters were 
dangerous to approach their homes? I mean, like, what was in 
your initial portions of your investigation leading to the 
termination of this employee? I mean, what was it that, you 
know, she expressed as to why we would avoid these Trump 
households?
    Administrator Criswell. I cannot speak to the motivations 
that drove her to send that message, but the actions that she 
took were completely unacceptable. We have initiated ongoing 
investigations, and if we find any further evidence that this 
is broader than this incident, then we will take appropriate 
action.
    Mr. Langworthy. I mean, since you have been at FEMA, has 
political affiliation ever been classified by FEMA or any other 
Federal Agency to your knowledge is a dangerous community 
trend?
    Administrator Criswell. Never.
    Mr. Langworthy. OK. Did your employees and volunteers go to 
properties with any signage or flags or memorabilia supporting 
Kamala Harris or any of the other Democratic candidates running 
for office across country?
    Administrator Criswell. Other than the information that I 
have from this one incident, we have gone to tens of thousands 
of homes across all six states impacted.
    Mr. Langworthy. So, yes or no, are you aware of any 
directive from supervisors of FEMA to avoid properties with any 
Democratic or Republican signage for that matter?
    Administrator Criswell. I have given no evidence and I am 
not aware at this time.
    Mr. Langworthy. OK. I think that this investigation is 
really important, that you are on, and I am really going to be 
looking for a keen interest to the final product, you know, as 
you finish that product. Any timeline as when that 
investigation might conclude?
    Administrator Criswell. We have reached out to the 
Inspector General to conduct the investigation. I cannot speak 
to what their timeline will be.
    Mr. Langworthy. And it is really important to restore faith 
for all Americans in many parts of the Federal Government, but 
FEMA in particular. So, I really look forward to hearing from 
you more in the future.
    In my remaining time, I would like to quickly revisit a 
letter that I sent earlier this year urging FEMA to update its 
methodology for snowstorm-related reimbursements. In its 
response, FEMA says that it is working with NOAA on potential 
updates, and as winter approaches, lake effect snow season in 
Buffalo New York is coming, it is crucial that, to my 
constituents in Western New York, that we know that FEMA is 
taking proactive steps to ensure the most current standards 
guide Federal assistance decisions. Can you give an update on 
any progress FEMA and NOAA have made in their efforts to 
modernize this methodology?
    Administrator Criswell. I know following the historic snow 
season that we have had last year and previous years, our teams 
have been working on that, but I would have to get back to you 
specifically as to where that is at.
    Mr. Langworthy. OK. We look forward to following up. Thank 
you very much, Director, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Comer. Thank you, gentleman. And I assume the 
Inspector General is watching this hearing. This Committee has 
jurisdiction over the inspectors general. I cannot encourage 
the Inspector General enough not to take this investigation 
seriously and report back to the Ranking Member and myself as 
soon as possible. The Chair now recognizes Mr. McCormick from 
Georgia.
    Mr. McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for allowing 
me to be part of this very important discussion. I appreciate 
all the first responders across the Nation who have done their 
very best, including those people who are part of FEMA, to help 
those people most in need, especially during these dire times. 
I think we really owe it to the people to be accountable for 
where the money goes and who are helping, and I think that is 
what this is really about. One of the interesting things that 
came across when we were reviewing your budget. Can you tell me 
what your annual budget is for disaster relief out of FEMA?
    Administrator Criswell. In this continuing resolution, we 
were given just over $20 billion for Fiscal Year 2025.
    Mr. McCormick. So, it is not $38.2 billion. It is $20 
billion. Is that what you said?
    Administrator Criswell. Out of my overall budget, just over 
$20 billion is for disaster relief.
    Mr. McCormick. OK, specifically, and according to your 
September report that you submitted, what percentage of that 
went toward COVID?
    Administrator Criswell. I do not have the report in front 
of me, sir, but the COVID reimbursements are part of the 
Disaster Relief Fund, reimbursements to communities that had 
impact, so I would have to get back to you on this.
    Mr. McCormick. According to your report, in September, 40 
percent of your budget went toward COVID relief. That is not 
talked about very much. Now I am an ER doc. I got my MBA. I was 
actually serving on the front lines of the COVID pandemic 
during the entire pandemic. Can you tell me when the pandemic 
was no longer a pandemic according to the President of the 
United States?
    Administrator Criswell. We closed the incident period in 
May of last year.
    Mr. McCormick. OK. And yet, we spent 40 percent of our 
budget from this year's budget on COVID Relief instead of 
hurricanes and other things. Is that correct?
    Administrator Criswell. Again, I do not have the numbers in 
front of me----
    Mr. McCormick. According to your report----
    Administrator Criswell. but those are major disaster 
declarations that were eligible for reimbursement.
    Mr. McCormick. You can prove me wrong by submitting papers 
later on, but according to your report submitted just 2 months 
ago, we spent 40 percent. I want that number to sink in. Forty 
percent of our budget for disaster relief was spent on COVID, 
which was gone a long time ago. I was there when it started. I 
was there when it ended. I know what the reaction was. I know 
where they overspent on it. I know where the waste, fraud, and 
abuse was. It makes me sick to my stomach. It is one of the 
main reasons I am here in Congress, and to see a disaster 
relief spent on something that was behind us, probably paying 
off a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse, in my opinion, quite 
frankly, and I would love to see that reviewed by Oversight 
because this is what is wrong with government. They spend 40 
percent of the budget on something that happened 2 years ago, 
and we have not enough money to deal with what is happening 
right now.
    And quite frankly, the whole COVID relief thing, I saw 
where the money was spent. I saw how haphazardly it was spent, 
and I saw who it benefited and who it did not. And I know a lot 
of millionaires and billionaires that benefited greatly off 
that money was spent from the U.S. Government taxpayers. And 
that is what I am very upset about, and that is why I am here 
today as part of the COVID Committee as a doctor who watched 
this stuff happen firsthand.
    And now to see the budget, I think it is very dishonest. I 
know what happened with somebody who skipped over a Trump 
house. I get that, and I think it is environmental as far as 
the way that the prevailing attitude was. I understand you 
fired somebody, which I am very happy about. I understand you 
are looking into other people that might be at odds with what 
you are supposed to accomplish. But to have a budget that has 
dedicated almost half of their budget to something that ended a 
long time ago, can you explain that?
    Administrator Criswell. All 50 states received a disaster 
declaration in the previous Administration to support their 
reimbursements for the cost experience from 2019.
    Mr. McCormick. For this year?
    Administrator Criswell. These are all payments from the 
disaster declarations declared during the previous 
Administration in 2020.
    Mr. McCormick. So, you mean to tell me that you had to do 
it?
    Administrator Criswell. These were Presidentially declared 
disasters, just like all disasters, and as people----
    Mr. McCormick. So, you are saying, yes, you had to do it. 
Is that correct?
    Administrator Criswell. Yes, as communities turn in their 
bills----
    Mr. McCormick. So, you were by law abided to spend 40 
percent of your budget on COVID response?
    Administrator Criswell. We are abided by law to reimburse 
jurisdictions that received a Presidential disaster declaration 
to reimburse them for the costs as eligible under the law.
    Mr. McCormick. So, I am new to Congress, Mr. Chairman. Mr. 
Chairman, I am new to Congress. I am not really had that 
experience that you have, but as an Oversight guy who spent a 
lot of your time getting to the bottom of these egregious 
errors, and you can fact check me on the other side of the 
aisle, too. But I have a hard time believing that, by law, we 
had to spend 40 percent of a budget on disaster relief for this 
year based on something that ended a couple years ago.
    Chairman Comer. I agree.
    Mr. McCormick. I am just trying to figure out where that 
went, and that is why I am here in Congress. And I hope you can 
work with me--and I hope you can work with me--to get the 
bottom of why we have those kind of stupid spending laws in 
America and we can end those things for good, because that is 
the biggest part of the problem of government as I see it. 
Thank you, and with that, Mr. Chairman, I rest.
    Chairman Comer. Very good question. The Chair now 
recognizes our last questioner, Mr. Steube from Florida.
    Mr. Steube. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
allowing me to join the Committee today in this important 
hearing. And as I assume that the Director knows, my district 
has been devastated by six major hurricanes in just the last 2 
years. Just a few months ago, my district experienced three 
major hurricanes in 3 months and two in 2 weeks. A little over 
2 weeks after Hurricane Helene took out my district with a 5-to 
7-foot storm surge, Hurricane Milton, a Category 3 hurricane, 
made landfall in my district with a 7-to 8-foot storm surge and 
over 100-mile-an-hour wind, some of the same businesses that I 
visited and ripped drywall out of because of Hurricane Helene, 
2 weeks later, got flooded again.
    So, as you can imagine, my district, both Republicans and 
Democrats and Floridians in general, were outraged to learn 
that FEMA had been avoiding conservatives, Trump supporters, 
white males, et cetera. Ranking Member Raskin in the beginning 
of this hearing stated, ``No one should play partisan politics 
with disaster aid,'' but that is exactly what your Agency has 
been doing. In the aftermath of such devastation, the American 
people expect and trust that FEMA will administer disaster 
relief in a fair manner. Unfortunately, we recently learned 
that a FEMA Supervisor in Florida named Marni Washington 
directed subordinates to skip homes displaying support for 
President Trump. Despite your testimony, this now former 
employee claims this was a widespread practice under a policy 
she termed avoidance. No matter who initiated this avoidance 
policy, it was a malicious act that resulted from a corrupt 
culture within FEMA.
    Administrator Criswell, I wrote you a letter on November 15 
in which I asked for information related to this incident. Mr. 
Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter the letter into the 
record.
    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
    Mr. Steube. Although I asked for my answers by November 25, 
perhaps you have enough information to at least answer one of 
my questions, and I have heard some of your answers are related 
to this. Well, let me just ask it as I asked it in the letter. 
Is it Agency policy for FEMA canvassers to practice avoidance 
in certain circumstances?
    Administrator Criswell. We provide safety training to our 
staff as they are going out into communities, door-to-door, and 
part of that safety training includes how to avoid or de-
escalate potentially harassing situations in reaction. None of 
that is directed at being proactive to avoid certain situations 
that they may perceive without an actual threat.
    Mr. Steube. But it is subjective, right? It is subjective 
on the person canvassing. So, if that person is a Democrat, 
which you are in a Democratic administration. You are a 
Democratic appointee. You are probably hiring mostly Democrats 
over Republicans. You have a Democratic administration. If it 
is a Democrat who already believes that a Trump supporter, that 
a white, Caucasian person is not what they would not feel 
comfortable talking to that person, because it is subjective in 
nature, they would skip that house to avoid that. They could do 
that.
    Administrator Criswell. No, that would be an unfair 
characterization.
    Mr. Steube. Well, that is not what other people have been 
saying that has been reported. When did this policy go into 
place? Did you start this policy?
    Administrator Criswell. This policy has been in place since 
we have had these teams going into the field as they encounter 
people all the time, and it is designed to be reactive.
    Mr. Steube. When was this specific avoidance policy put in 
place?
    Administrator Criswell. I would have to get back to you, 
sir.
    Mr. Steube. OK. In media appearances, Ms. Washington 
alleges that she was instructed by a FEMA supervisor named Chad 
Hershey to practice avoidance. As part of your investigation, 
have you interviewed Mr. Hershey?
    Administrator Criswell. I personally have not interviewed 
Mr. Hershey, but there are ongoing investigations.
    Mr. Steube. Well, I would ask the IG to interview him. 
There were 13 people on the text chain with Ms. Washington. 
Have they given sworn statements in the course of your 
department's investigation?
    Administrator Criswell. I would have to check with the 
Office of Professional Responsibility as to who they have 
gotten statements from.
    Mr. Steube. Can you provide the names on that text message 
list, the 13 people that works for FEMA, to this Committee to 
further this investigation--oversight over your----
    Administrator Criswell. We will work with this Committee to 
provide information, as appropriate, as part of this 
investigation.
    Mr. Steube. Earlier today, in the Transportation Committee, 
you stated, ``There is not a widespread culture problem at 
FEMA.'' Unfortunately, the evidence contradicts your assertion. 
And in a report published by The Daily Signal, a former FEMA 
employee--so this is not Ms. Washington, this is somebody 
else--a former FEMA employee who spent over 5 years at your 
Agency stated, ``FEMA is rotten to a core. It is over-staffed, 
it is bureaucratic, and they don't really help anybody.'' 
Referring to the Trump flag incident, the former employee said, 
``They were told to avoid Trump, avoid any house that has a 
Trump sign, in a verbal meeting. I have seen that happen.'' We 
were told, ``don't go into any house that looks suspicious.'' 
They would use words like ``hick,'' ``cowboys,'' ``rednecks.'' 
You can change that over to Trump supporters in MAGA.'' So, I 
guess that explains why FEMA has never stopped in my house over 
the six hurricanes that we have had because I check all three 
of your boxes: a Trump supporter, a white male, and a cowboy.
    Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter The Daily 
Signal article into the record.
    Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
    Mr. Steube. After the initial story broke, we sent an email 
to my district requesting any of my constituents who felt like 
they had been politically discriminated by FEMA. And just since 
last week, we have had over 35 people who live and reside in my 
district, who are citizens in my district, who have given us 
specific instances, factual instances, where they were either 
overlooked or specifically discriminated against because of 
their political affiliation.
    This is the exact type of weaponization of the Federal 
Government that put Trump back in the White House. Starting 
with the DOJ, the FBI, the intelligence agencies, the 
weaponization of the Justice Department against President 
Trump, and now it has been weaponizing the American people in 
the form of disaster aid, and it is atrocious. Thank God 
President Trump won, and he can restore this Department into 
what it should be--not partisan, helping every American that 
has been affected by a disaster, and I yield back.
    Mr. Raskin. Will the gentleman yield for one question?
    Mr. Steube. Sure.
    Mr. Raskin. You were kind enough to quote me at the 
beginning of your remarks, Mr. Steube, saying that partisanship 
should not enter into the distribution of disaster aid, and I 
think we found unanimous agreement on that point with respect 
to this discrete episode that took place in Florida. But 
several Members on our side have cited the President-elect, 
when he was President before, withholding aid and altering the 
distribution of aid, or attempting to, to California, to Puerto 
Rico, other places, on precisely the basis of partisanship, and 
no one on your side spoke up about that. But since you endorsed 
the general principle, I wonder if you would agree that if such 
a thing were to take place by a President, perhaps you disagree 
with the reporting on it, but if it were to take place, that 
would be equally or even more wrong than one person doing it on 
a particular city block.
    Mr. Steube. I do not care who the administration is or what 
Agency it is. If they are discriminating against political 
party beliefs and not getting Federal Government aid for that, 
that is wrong, which is why Ashley Moody, our Attorney General 
for the state of Florida, is suing FEMA exactly for that 
reason.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Comer. Madam Administrator, that concludes our 
hearing today. I want to thank you for your testimony today. I 
know there were many questions. There are going to be some 
follow-up questions. We are in communication with other Members 
and other people who have suggested that maybe the incident 
here was not an isolated incident, so we are going to have 
communication back and forth. We look forward to that IG report 
coming very soon.
    And with that, and without objection, all Members have 5 
legislative days within which to submit materials and 
additional written questions for the witnesses, which will be 
forwarded to the witness.
    If there is no further business, without objection, the 
Committee stands adjourned. Thank you.
    [Whereupon, at 7:04 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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