[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                   ASSESSING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S
                  RESPONSE TO THE 2023 MAUI WILDFIRES

=======================================================================


                                HEARING

                               before the

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS
                        AND THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE

                                 of the

                         COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
                           AND ACCOUNTABILITY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION
                               __________

                           SEPTEMBER 4, 2024
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-127
                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Accountability


               
               
               [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]




                       Available on: govinfo.gov
                         oversight.house.gov or
                             docs.house.gov
                             
                             

                                ______

                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

56-883 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2024




















               COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY

                    JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman

Jim Jordan, Ohio                     Jamie Raskin, Maryland, Ranking 
Mike Turner, Ohio                      Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of 
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina          Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Michael Cloud, Texas                 Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia
Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Ro Khanna, California
Pete Sessions, Texas                 Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Katie Porter, California
Jake LaTurner, Kansas                Cori Bush, Missouri
Pat Fallon, Texas                    Shontel Brown, Ohio
Byron Donalds, Florida               Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Robert Garcia, California
William Timmons, South Carolina      Maxwell Frost, Florida
Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Greg Casar, Texas
Lisa McClain, Michigan               Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Dan Goldman, New York
Russell Fry, South Carolina          Jared Moskowitz, Florida
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Nick Langworthy, New York            Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Eric Burlison, Missouri
Mike Waltz, Florida

                                 ------
                                 
                       Mark Marin, Staff Director
       Jessica Donlon, Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel
                      Bill Womack, Senior Advisor
                 Alex Rankin, Professional Staff Member
      Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5074

                  Julie Tagen, Minority Staff Director
                      Contact Number: 202-225-5051
                      
                                 ------                                

    Subcommittee on Government Operations and the Federal Workforce

                     Pete Sessions, Texas, Chairman
Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Kweisi Mfume, Maryland Ranking 
Clay Higgins, Louisiana                Minority Member
Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of 
Byron Donalds, Florida                 Columbia
William Timmons, South Carolina      Maxwell Frost, Florida
Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Greg Casar, Texas
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia
Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Russell Fry, South Carolina          Robert Garcia, California
Eric Burlison, Missouri              Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Vacancy                              Jasmine Crockett, Texas
                                     Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     



















                                     
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                                                                   Page

Hearing held on September 4, 2024................................     1



                               Witnesses


                              ----------                              

Panel 1 - Federal Witnesses

Mr. Bob Fenton, Regional Administrator (Region 9), Federal 
  Emergency
  Management Agency
Oral Statement...................................................    11

Col. Eric Swenson, Commander, St. Paul District, U.S. Army Corps 
  of
  Engineers
Oral Statement...................................................    13

Mr. Francisco Sanchez, Jr., Associate Administrator, Office of 
  Disaster
  Recovery & Resilience, Small Business Administration
Oral Statement...................................................    16

Ms. Cheree Peterson, Deputy Regional Administrator (Region 9), 
  Environmental Protection Agency
Oral Statement...................................................    18

Panel 2 - Local Witnesses

Major General Kenneth Hara, Adjutant General, State of Hawaii
Oral Statement...................................................    39

Mr. Richard Bissen, Mayor, Maui County, Hawaii
Oral Statement...................................................    40

Ms. Lauren Nahme, Senior Vice President, Maui Recovery Office, 
  Hawaii Community Foundation
Oral Statement...................................................    42

Mr. Keeaumoku Kapu, President & CEO, Na Aikane o Maui
Oral Statement...................................................    44

Mr. Sne Patel, Board President, LahainaTown Action Committee
Oral Statement...................................................    46

Written opening statements and statements for the witnesses are 
  available
  on the U.S. House of Representatives Document Repository
  at: docs.house.gov.

                           Index of Documents

                              ----------                              

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Anonymous.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Councilmember 
    Tamara Paltin.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Dave.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Debra Engel 
  Michalek.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Guinrvero.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Jackie Keefe.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Katheryn Wilson.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Lorien ``Lolo'' 
  Acquintas.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Lorrie Betsill 
  Nielson.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Mark Paranada.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Representative 
    Elle
    Cochran.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Star Fernandez 
  Beechick.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Susie Richter.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Tammy A. 
  Perkins.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Tom Roy.

  * Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Sharon Scott.

  * Statement for the Record, by Rep. Ellie Cochran; submitted by 
    Rep. Jill Naomi Tokuda.

  * Report, Maui Exposure Study, MWES; submitted by Rep. Tokuda.

  * Report, Maui-Together-Assessment, HSRHA; submitted by Rep. 
  Tokuda.

  * Letter, August 7, 2024; submitted by Rep. Tokuda.


Documents are available at: docs.house.gov.

 
                   ASSESSING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S
                  RESPONSE TO THE 2023 MAUI WILDFIRES

                              ----------                              

                      Wednesday, September 4, 2024

                     U.S. House of Representatives

               Committee on Oversight and Accountability

         Subcommittee on Government Operations and the Federal
    
                              Workforce

                                           Washington, D.C.


    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m. 
Hawaii, Lahaina Civic Center, Social Hall, 1840 Honoapiilani 
Highway (HI-30), Lahania, Hawaii, Hon. Pete Sessions [Chairman 
of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Sessions and Porter.
    Also present: Representatives Jill Naomi Tokuda and Ed 
Case.
    Mr. Sessions. The room will come to order.
    Good morning. This hearing this morning is part of the 
official business of the U.S. House of Representatives. This 
hearing is of the Subcommittee on Government Operations and the 
Federal Workforce, and we will come to order.
    I would like to welcome each and every one of you who are 
here today for this important event.
    Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any 
time.
    I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening 
statement.
    My opening statement is, is that I am delighted that the 
community has come to this hearing today. We have very 
specifically received not only the gracious warm welcome of the 
Mayor, but also many of you, and my colleagues also who are 
from this island. This island is made up of beautiful people 
with a rich heritage. And we, all of us as Members of Congress, 
come here with great respect for you.
    I want to say to you and each of you and my colleagues at 
the House of Representatives, U.S. Congress, but also to people 
of the United States of America, we watched with horror of the 
scenes, but you lived through it. It was you who had to suffer, 
not only the problems that happened so quickly, that enveloped 
and took lives, but also that night who had to take count of 
where you were. As Americans we watched this, and we were 
horrified.
    And so, we today join with you, as my colleagues, to come 
here I think at an appropriate time to not only say what we 
want to hear about this but to let you know that we care about 
you. We care, each of my colleagues that care about what 
happens not only here and the rebuilding, but they care about 
each of you not just as a people, but the lives that are lived 
here. So, I think it is important that the way that you greeted 
us we return that back to you and say thank you.
    I am pleased to be joined today by the Ranking Member for 
this hearing, the gentlewoman from California, Congresswoman 
Porter. Both she and I are making this trip because we feel 
compelled to come and not only hear what we need to hear, but 
to make this trip to assess for our Subcommittee the things 
which we might learn which may help others in the future.
    I am also grateful for the assistance of my dear friend, Ed 
Case. Congressman Case represents Hawaii's First congressional 
District, and he is here with me.
    Ed, thank you for taking the time to be here.
    And I want to give special mention to Congresswoman Tokuda, 
who the people of this beautiful Lahaina have had her in her 
prayers and dreams but in her hard work for a long, long time. 
Thank you for taking time and to greet us as we got together 
last night to learn more about her thoughts and her ideas.
    She is equally a part of this success in what we are doing 
here today. She also knows that the 1-year anniversary of the 
fires that took 102 lives will not be forgotten and will be a 
part of the discussion and on our memory and minds today.
    But this is the jewel of the islands. We call this, because 
I think you do, the jewel of Hawaiian history and of culture. 
And from the people that I have spoken with that also were here 
to help, they believe that.
    On behalf of the House Oversight Committee, I want to 
extend our condolences to those of you who had those that were 
lost or injured, and express to you that I know that your loved 
ones, friends, and neighbors in the community you represent 
also today, and perhaps that is why we are here.
    By traveling perhaps a long way, me from Texas, others who 
came here from California, but those who represent the Federal 
Government, FEMA and other agencies, they have been on the 
ground here for a year. They feel like their lives have been 
benefited because they gave a service back to people on this 
island, and I wish to thank them at this time on behalf of the 
U.S. Congress and the American people for their work, their 
diligence, their honesty, and the reasons why they came were to 
be of help. And I think that should not be forgotten.
    So, a sincere thank you also goes to representatives of the 
Maui County government and the Mayor's office and the Mayor who 
is here with us today to make sure that what we are doing here 
today is not just what we hear, that we respect you and say 
thank you to you, but a working relationship that is being 
pushed a little bit more by the U.S. Congress being here.
    My Ranking Member, Mr. Mfume, who is from Maryland, cannot 
be here today. As you may know, he represents the area where 
the bridge fell in Baltimore Harbor. He has his own issue. And 
so it is today that I say to you, Mr. Mfume, as the Ranking 
Member of this Subcommittee, simply cannot be here, but wishes 
that his--and he wants me to express his sincere wishes to each 
one of you, as I have done and as each of my colleagues will 
do, and certainly the point of view for the community itself.
    We expect to hear back things that may not be foreign to us 
but that will be very special to you, and we are open to 
hearing that. I have heard from our members of the Federal 
Government who are here working that they have tried to respect 
not only the culture but the feedback from people, and I am 
proud of this.
    We also appreciate the need for housing, which existed 
before the fire and certainly now. To hear the, all too 
frequently, the sons and daughters of those who call Hawaii 
home cannot afford to call it home for themselves anymore and 
have had to seek other places. And we came to get a sense of 
the beautiful history that this island and islands represent, 
not just the culture, but the beauty that it represents.
    Some elements are simply uniquely Hawaiian. Yesterday, my 
staff from the government reform and oversight subcommittee, 
both Republican and Democrat colleagues of ours, toured the 
area to include sacred places to many people that are here on 
these islands. And it was important that we got that knowledge 
of the sensitivity, not only that each of you represent, but 
that we need to acknowledge and respect, and we do. Some of 
these elements are common to all of us, but some are very 
special, and we respect that.
    As I recollect the same case that I was aware of back on 9/
11, we were dealing with very difficult issues, the sensitivity 
of people who lost thousands of lives. And while there is no 
way to look at a brother or a son or a daughter or grandparents 
or parents, there is the ability that we have to come and 
listen and uniquely understand their loss and to give them a 
sense of hope and confidence that us working together as 
Americans we can make it work. But I understand and respect 
what we may hear today.
    I also want you to know that we have gathered together 
witnesses that we believe represent the best of not only the 
hard work that is being done here, but those who respect 
hearing back from the community, hearing back from elected 
officials. And while this may be a difficult part of the 
process to make decisions, I spoke to the Mayor this morning 
specifically and I said, ``Mr. Mayor, please know that while 
there is much work to be done, there are also decisions that I 
encourage you and your colleagues to be together so that it is 
done properly.'' And the Mayor reminded me, ``Congressman 
Sessions, if you get 10 people in a room, you may get 10 
answers.'' And I respectfully said back to the Mayor, ``That is 
why we respect the ability of local people to make local 
decisions and to come up with an answer.''
    This Subcommittee's work regarding disaster recovery really 
began last year. It began last year with me as Chairman of the 
Subcommittee, that is not only government operations, but it is 
the Federal workforce, as we held a field hearing in Fort 
Myers, Florida into the recovery of Hurricane Ian. And we were 
very successful in not only approaching the community, but 
listening. And I think that we are doing the right thing today.
    Our intent in these hearings is now and was to specifically 
open our ears and receive feedback. Feedback that may result 
itself perhaps in FEMA or other organizations learning new 
things, but the U.S. Congress seeing firsthand. The U.S. 
Congress seeing firsthand about on a bipartisan basis how we 
can work together on issues that are like this. Every disaster 
is different, and every disaster has its unique circumstances. 
Once again, that is part of the mission of this Subcommittee: 
to be here to listen, to learn what was working, what might 
need to be done, and the needs that we need to be aware of.
    At the individual level, there are many that are seated 
here who bring tears of grief and perhaps uncertainty. While we 
cannot alleviate all the fears or take care of all the harm 
that has happened, we are here to say that you have come to the 
right place to hear a story. A story of a group of people who 
came to try and help and to make better this island so that it 
is better prepared for tomorrow, and that is why we are here. 
We know that no Federal agency, indeed no human institution, 
can address every concern. But we are here today under official 
business to do our duty as best we see it. And I will tell you 
it is being done, not just on a bipartisan basis, but it is 
being done with us together.
    I would like to, if I can at this time, recognize--I have 
three colleagues from the Democratic Party. We refer to them as 
the Minority, but they are colleagues of mine. Well, we refer 
to each other in Majority and Minority. In this case today, I 
want to recognize the gentlewoman from California, and she will 
then offer the order in which she would choose to give the 
opening statements, but to let you know that Congresswoman 
Porter has taken time from the Subcommittee to represent what 
we believe is important, and that is Mr. Mfume and these ideas, 
to make sure you know that we see this together.
    The gentlewoman is now recognized.
    Ms. Porter. Thank you very much, Chairman Sessions.
    I want to start by thanking the city of Lahaina. The island 
of Maui, the civic center, and everyone--the Minority staff, 
the Majority staff. It is a lot of work to bring Congress to 
the American people, but field hearings, in my opinion, are one 
of the most important things that Congress does, and maybe one 
of the most underused things that we do. Our work is here with 
the American people. Our work is not just in Washington, D.C. 
So, it is a lot of work, and I want to appreciate the staff and 
everyone, both local and from Washington, who made this field 
hearing happen.
    And thank Chairman Sessions for his leadership and his work 
going back many, many months to plan and to hold this hearing 
at the most appropriate time with the best possible set of 
witnesses we could have to learn and understand how to move 
forward.
    As we all know too well in this room, 1 year ago our 
country suffered a horrible tragedy when wildfire flames 
engulfed Lahaina, destroying everything in their path. And the 
damage was devastating. Families lost their homes, their 
livelihoods, their communities and, for many, their loved ones.
    We are here today in part to grieve with you and to 
acknowledge those painful losses. But we are mostly here 
looking forward, to reinforce the Federal Government's 
continued commitment to helping Hawaii recover. When disaster 
strikes, Americans show up for one another to rebuild what we 
have lost. It matters how we rebuild and who we are rebuilding 
for. Survivors and families still struggle to find stable, 
affordable housing.
    Many families were already experiencing an intense housing 
crisis well before the wildfire a year ago. Competition with 
tourists, mainlanders scooping up properties to rent as 
vacation homes, combined with a lack of new construction played 
a part in putting stable, affordable housing out of reach for 
many of the families who live and work here.
    The wildfires supercharged Maui's housing crisis. For 
starters, the destruction of a chunk of Maui's already limited 
supply of homes further exacerbated the imbalance between 
supply and demand, hiking up rents across the island, even for 
families who were not displaced. When FEMA began providing 
disaster relief payments to assist survivors, some landlords 
reportedly took advantage of the crisis by ousting their 
existing tenants so they could lease to fire survivors for a 
higher monthly rent. State leaders have worked to crack down on 
this abuse, but in many cases the damage had already been done.
    As Chairman Sessions has already emphasized, this hearing 
is not about finger-pointing or playing a blame game. We are 
here on a bipartisan basis to examine the response from all 
levels of government to last year's wildfires and to learn so 
that we can apply what we have experienced here to improve 
future disaster response.
    One takeaway that I have gathered already is that the 
United States needs to center affordable housing in its 
disaster response. I think this was a lesson from Katrina as 
well. I think what happened here is showing we are still 
struggling to understand how to provide housing in the wake of 
disasters.
    Lahaina, like any area, has its own challenges and barriers 
to overcome in building affordable housing. But there are 
common root problems present from Hawaii to my home state of 
California. I represent Orange County, California; expensive, 
coastal property, with geographic limitations, a lot of 
dependency on tourism. There is much in common, and we are 
struggling with many of the same root problems.
    We need Congress to step up and invest in affordable 
housing in advance of disaster so that we are not already in a 
shortage when we are trying to climb out. So, I encourage 
Congress to think about passing the Affordable Housing Credit 
Improvement Act. It currently has 125 Democratic sponsors and 
114 Republican cosponsors.
    The tax credits in that bill would result in building 2 
million new homes. We could help unleash private capital for 
home construction by guaranteeing and securitizing the 
construction of one to four-unit starter homes, just like the 
government already does for big apartment buildings which may 
not be suitable, for example, in areas like Lahaina. We could 
invest in technology to make 3D printed building materials and 
reduce building costs by over 30 percent. We could center 
housing construction here to build component parts for houses 
to be able to have high-quality housing built more quickly than 
is typical. And we could stop Wall Street hedge funds from 
scooping up all the affordable homes across our country and 
driving up prices for homeowners and renters alike. And we 
could reward cities and counties that take the step of making 
their building and zoning requirements more flexible.
    While we are going to rightly, today, focus on survivors 
who lost their homes in the wake of the fire, we are not doing 
enough to anticipate the underlying housing crisis that made 
the Lahaina wildfires such a profound shock to the housing 
market, so we must do more.
    Today we are here to listen and to bear witness. So, thank 
you for your willingness to share your memories, your 
experiences, and your hopes, both painful and joyful, stories 
of both heroism and hardship.
    I would now like to recognize my colleague----
    Mr. Sessions. If I could, please. Excuse me, I am sorry.
    Ms. Porter. Yes, of course.
    Mr. Sessions. So, without objection, I would like to have 
Congresswoman Tokuda and Congressman Ed Case of Hawaii will be 
waived on the Committee for the purpose of questioning today's 
witnesses at this Subcommittee hearing. Both of these Members 
of Congress have worked tirelessly, not only on behalf of the 
people of Hawaii from last year's wildfires but also with their 
colleagues. They have made sure that we heard more about the 
stories, the stories that some respects are thrilling because 
it is talked about human endeavor and the people of this island 
and their desire to continue to work. So, we waive them both 
on.
    Without objection, that is done. Now I have to come back to 
the gentlewoman.
    Ms. Porter. This is a technical procedure so that they can 
be part of the committee. So, really good job being in charge. 
That is why he is in charge today.
    I would now like to recognize my colleague, Representative 
Jill Tokuda.
    Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Representative Porter.
    And mahalo, Mr. Chairman, for holding this field hearing 
today. You and I know that you have absolutely approached this 
hearing with the utmost sincerity, and aloha. It could have 
been done many other ways, but for the way that you and your 
team have approached this truly with the best of intentions and 
hopes in your heart for our community and our people, I am very 
grateful.
    And now, please, I hope you will both consider yourselves 
part of our extended ohana, which means you are always welcome 
back. But we all now have a shared responsibility in terms of 
how we move forward to support our community.
    Thank you again, Representative Porter, Representative 
Case, for taking time out of what is a very busy August 
district work period to come here and to directly listen from 
our constituents today.
    I am also thankful, as I mentioned, to the Committee staff 
and team that are in this room for their collaboration and work 
with our team and their hard work for organizing this field 
hearing and bringing it to Maui. Oftentimes we summon people to 
Washington, DC, as Representative Porter mentioned. It is about 
coming to you and meeting you where you are at. So, mahalo to 
the teams that made this possible.
    You know, as you know, our community just commemorated the 
1-year anniversary since the fires. And I have said many times 
that this has felt like both the shortest and the longest year 
of my life. But I am truly grateful; grateful, honestly, that 
during these extremely difficult times that I have been blessed 
to be surrounded by the very best of us.
    You know, people and organizations from across the state, 
from across the country and the world, they stepped forward and 
stepped up and truly cared for our community, and they have 
gone above and beyond to help us heal, recover, and now focus 
on rebuilding.
    From shortly after the fires, as you know, we have had 
Members of Congress, from Chairman Westerman, to former Speaker 
McCarthy and Minority Whip Clark, all come to Maui to express 
their strong support for our people. President Biden and 
numerous Cabinet members have also been here, committed to 
marshalling a whole-of-government response to the disaster. And 
since then, the Federal Government has provided over $3 billion 
in direct support to Maui and its recovery.
    This field hearing is a valuable opportunity for us to 
reflect on the past year, and we focus our efforts for what 
will continue to be a long and challenging road ahead. One year 
later, the greatest challenges we face are the ones that we 
cannot see on the surface. Beneath the progress we have made 
are the wounds and the scars of a community still hurting and 
still grieving. Survivors are struggling to get back on their 
feet, to find and keep jobs in a local economy that will take 
years to recover, and to secure the finances necessary to 
rebuild their homes, their businesses, and their lives.
    In a sobering study done by the Hawaii State Rural Health 
Association, 45 percent of fire-impacted residents are 
seriously considering leaving Maui for other islands or another 
state. And across Maui County, a majority of residents know 
someone who has already left the island.
    Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to insert into the 
record the Hawaii State Rural Health Association's report 
entitled, ``The Struggles of Maui County'', and the Maui 
Wildfire Exposure Study's initial report entitled, ``Community 
Health, Wellbeing, and Resilience,'' conducted by researchers 
at the University of Hawaii.
    Mr. Sessions. Without objection, they will be entered into 
the record.
    Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    These reports highlight the struggles and the pain points 
of recovery and rebuilding. They also identify key needs as 
well as opportunities.
    Getting this recovery right over the next months, years 
and, quite frankly, as I have said, generations, will require 
us as a local, state, and Federal Government, and as a 
community as a whole, to stay focused on the future.
    Central to the next phase of rebuilding Lahaina is the 
long-term recovery plan and development by Maui County. And 
while physical structures and streets may change, the strength 
and soul of Lahaina, we all know, are her people. And as the 
people of Lahaina determine what that future will be for this 
place, what it will look like, what it will feel like, what we 
will lift up, it will take a coherent vision and plan to make 
it a reality.
    To sustain that recovery, we will also need continued 
Federal support. President Biden submitted his initial request 
for supplemental disaster funding last October, and updated 
that request again this past June. This is where Congress can 
and must deliver immediately. Since our fires, disasters, we 
know, have continued to strike across our country. We must 
replenish FEMA's Disaster Relief Fund and provide Community 
Development Block Grant Disaster Recovery, CDBG-DR--we love our 
acronyms--funds and more.
    Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to insert into the 
hearing record a recent letter from the Hawaii congressional 
delegation outlining our request for additional funding for 
housing, education, healthcare, infrastructure and more.
    Mr. Sessions. Without objection, that will be included in 
the record.
    Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    As we continue our work to meet these urgent needs, we must 
never forget that Lahaina is not Lahaina without her people. 
They are the foundation of this community, and they must 
continue to be the focus of all of our efforts in this 
recovery.
    Over the past year, we have witnessed not just their grief, 
but their courage and, above all, their hope. Through them, the 
world has seen what it means to truly be Maui strong.
    To the members of the community gathered here today or 
watching online, this field hearing represents our commitment 
to Maui as Congress and the Federal Government remains 
unwavering. We will continue to be here however long it takes. 
And I am grateful to my colleagues and the agencies gathered 
here today for their support thus far and well into the future.
    As many of you know, after the fires I said I would take to 
the Floor each time we are in session to make sure that Maui is 
never forgotten. Next week, I will speak all 102 names lost and 
the names of the two missing on the Floor of Congress. Their 
names and their lives forever enshrined in our history. This is 
a reminder that you will never, ever be forgotten and we will 
not go away.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair, fellow colleagues. And I yield back.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
    Ms. Porter?
    Ms. Porter. Thank you.
    I would now like to recognize my colleague, Representative 
Ed Case.
    Mr. Case. Thank you so much.
    Aloha to everybody. And I join my colleagues up here in 
saying a very special mahalo to each and all of you for coming 
here today and all of you that are watching across our country 
with the sole intention of focusing on the needs of Maui and of 
Lahaina in particular. We really appreciate your participation 
because this is taking all of our effort.
    A special thank you to Chair Sessions and Ms. Porter for 
coming all this way to devote yourself here. Your comments in 
the opening statement indicate that you completely understand 
and that you completely get what the needs are and how we feel 
we need to approach those needs. So, I really appreciate that.
    I also think it is important to say that among many, many 
great partnerships that it has taken to focus on Maui 
throughout this last year plus, your congressional delegation 
has been unified and working together throughout that period. 
Jill has obviously lead that from the U.S. House side. But I 
would be remiss if I did not also mention Senators Schatz and 
Hirono who have been a key part of this effort. And I know that 
they are here in spirit today.
    And I also want to say mahalo to our Federal Government. We 
are focusing today on the Federal Government's response, and we 
are doing that because the Federal Government has carried the 
heavy load of the recovery. And, of course, many other people 
had a part in it. But today, our job is to provide for 
congressional responsibility in terms of oversight and to ask 
the questions--what have we done well? What could we do better? 
And it is not just for the sake of Maui, it is to make sure 
that we take the lessons of each one of these disasters and 
responses and to other disasters that will occur in the future.
    But one thing I do want to say, and my colleagues have 
alluded to it and Jill talked about it directly, but, you know, 
the Federal Government and the Federal agencies are ultimately 
people, and people have motivations. And I will say without a 
question that the people that have been in charge of the 
Federal Government's response have been competent and caring 
and dedicated people who have embraced and cared about Maui. 
And, you know, this does not always happen in the Federal 
Government, but it certainly has happened here.
    And so, as we ask the questions we are going to ask today, 
this is in the context of great partners, people that have 
cared, people that have tried to find the ways to address 
problems in our own way, and they deserve our recognition. So, 
each and all of you from the Federal Government who have helped 
so much, mahalo so much for that.
    Obviously, at the 1-year anniversary, we have done a lot. 
The Federal Government's total expenditures are closing in on 
$3 billion or in that range in totality, including about a half 
a billion dollars in direct assistance to survivors. And 
obviously we have much more that must be done. And so, this is 
not over by a long shot. And it is clearly imperative that we 
continue to provide Federal assistance as long as it takes, 
including our No. 1 priority right now which is supplemental 
disaster funding, which I have strongly supported through my 
work on the House Appropriations Committee which funds our 
Federal Government.
    And this is a critical issue for us in Congress right now 
that we need to focus on, because on August 7, FEMA was 
forced--the Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA, Mr. 
Fenton here who has become synonymous with FEMA, was forced to 
implement what is referred to as Immediate Needs Funding 
because the Disaster Relief Fund, which is how we have funded 
most of this response--we put a bunch of money into it, it is 
utilized for disasters where they might occur. And in this 
case, that DRF is now exhausted and we are down to the last 
limits of it. And that is why FEMA has had to--because we have 
had a lot of disasters, not just Maui, across the country, they 
had a lot of draws on that and we are way overdue to replenish 
the Disaster Relief Fund.
    And so, our No. 1 priority really is--the congressional 
delegation, I think it is fair to say, and the letter from 
Jill--that Jill referred to from the delegation makes this 
point. The first and foremost thing we have to do is to 
replenish the Disaster Relief Fund as soon as possible. And we 
have asked for that in the tune of $20.9 billion. This is 
actually urgent right now. This is something that is happening 
in Congress right now that we hope to solve within the next 3 
weeks, by the end of this fiscal year, September 30. So that is 
No. 1.
    And then No. 2, we need, as reference was made, to fund the 
Community Development Block Grant Disaster Relief Fund. This is 
what we need and will access in order to actually rebuild 
Lahaina.
    And so, these are the big-picture issues that we face as we 
analyze the specific response your delegation and our friends 
and allies in Congress, including the two up here, are focused 
on the larger picture of the necessary Federal assistance that 
we will need to finish this job.
    And with that, I look forward to hearing from all of our 
witnesses about what we have done well, what we need to do 
better on for Maui, and what the lessons are to be learned, 
both for our own ohana and for our fellow citizens across the 
country as they face comparable situations.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time. Thank you 
very much.
    I am very proud of my colleagues that have taken their time 
to not only be a part of this but to make sure that we were 
properly prepared.
    Today's Subcommittee hearing will focus and feature two 
panels of witnesses. The first panel, which is already seated, 
will feature Federal witnesses--Federal witnesses from FEMA, 
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, U.S. Small Business 
Administration's office, and also the EPA. We believe they 
represent the heart and the soul of the work that needed to be 
done here, and we are calling upon them to give testimony 
today.
    I would like to introduce the panel, if I could, please. We 
have, first, the gentleman, Mr. Bob Fenton, who served as a 
Regional Administrator for FEMA Region 9, which includes 
Hawaii, since 2015. He brings together not only his knowledge 
and experience, but the background, the willingness, and desire 
to work with local people on serving answers that are best for 
them.
    Colonel Eric Swenson serves as Commander of the U.S. Army 
Corps of Engineers, St. Paul District, and he has done this 
since 2022.
    Colonel, we appreciate you taking time to not only be with 
us today but to know that you have led the critical work that 
was very important for the last year to this island, and thank 
you.
    Mr. Francisco Sanchez, Jr. He serves as the Associate 
Administrator for the U.S. Small Business Administration, 
Office of Disaster Recovery & Resiliency. And I would put both 
of those words directly to him today as we will, both on the 
words ``disaster recovery'' and ``resilience.''
    Sir, we want to thank you for not only taking the time to 
be here but your hard work and the people of your agency who 
have contributed to this important effort.
    And last, the gentlewoman, Cheree Peterson, who approached 
me earlier with a big smile, and I said to her ``thank you very 
much.'' Thank you from the EPA perspective of being the Deputy 
Regional Administrator for Region 9, but for the hard work. And 
she had several employees that were with her, and she knew that 
when I said thank you, it was really on behalf of each of us 
that are here today and the American people.
    I am delighted that you are all here.
    So, pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), the witnesses will 
please stand and raise their right hand to be sworn.
    And I will ask each of you, do you solemnly swear or affirm 
that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
    [Response].
    Mr. Sessions. Please let the record--thank you very much--
please let the record show that the witnesses all answered in 
the affirmative. You may now take your seat. We are delighted 
that you are here.
    And I would ask that we allow Mr. Fenton to please take his 
time. Mr. Fenton, as you know, we typically have a 5-minute 
opportunity that is available to the witness. I would like for 
you to take the time that is necessary, that does not include 
all day, but take the time that is necessary. Because what we 
are trying to do today is not to rush through to 5 minutes, but 
to listen to you about the things that you have seen, that you 
understand, and things that you think these important Members 
of Congress--by the way, we represent about 1 percent of the 
U.S. Congress that is here today, listening to you and here for 
the right reasons.
    The gentleman is recognized for 5 minutes.

                             MR. BOB FENTON
                   REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR (REGION 9)
                  FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY

    Mr. Fenton. Well, thank you, Chairman Sessions, Ranking 
Member Porter, and Representatives Tokuda and Case. My name is 
Bob Fenton. I am the FEMA Region 9 Regional Administrator, and 
I also served as the Chief Federal Response Coordinator 
appointed by President Biden to oversee the Federal response to 
these historic wildfires that swept through Kula and Lahaina in 
August 2023.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify regarding FEMA's 
continued efforts to help Maui recover from the deadliest 
wildfires to impact the United States in over a century. During 
this tragic event, 102 lives were lost and two remain 
unaccounted for. This pain of this kind of loss is deep and 
palatable across the island. Thousands of buildings and 
cultural heritage sites were also destroyed by the fires, 
including approximately 4,000 homes and the face of the sacred 
and the historic town that was loved by all.
    In my 28 years with FEMA, I have seen numerous disasters 
destroy communities across the country. While some have been 
bigger in size, none have been as complex as Maui. My 
experience working in the Pacific has taught me a lot, mostly 
to listen more than I speak and to surround myself with 
cultural leaders that I can learn from. It has also underscored 
the importance of ensuring that every Federal employee who 
deploys here understands the uniqueness of the culture they are 
working amidst. Because of this, I requested a cultural adviser 
from Maui almost immediately after being tasked with overseeing 
this response.
    The Department of Interior sent a senior adviser for Native 
Hawaiian Affairs to advise us on intergovernmental 
relationships and interagency coordination and to consult with 
the Native Hawaiian community in recognition of their special 
legal and political relationship with the Federal Government.
    In coordination with our Federal partners, FEMA established 
a Cultural Protocol Task Force that focused on three things: 
First, enhancing our staff's understanding of the diverse 
culture background; second, raising awareness among affected 
communities about FEMA's assistance and procedures; and three, 
incorporate cultural practices and considerations into the 
planning, implementation, and delivering of FEMA-supported 
services, operations, and programs for Maui.
    For example, the Cultural Protocol Task Force highlighted 
the need for debris removable permission forms to be translated 
into 11 languages. We knew that Lahaina was the capital of the 
historic Hawaii Kingdom and sites of cultural importance were 
hidden beneath the ashes of the fire in Lahaina and potentially 
Kula, so we incorporated cultural experts to monitor debris 
removal operations. Like our cultural adviser, the cultural 
monitor shedded [sic] light on actions we can take and honor 
the local community and rich history without compromising the 
speed of our response.
    In addition to leveraging cultural experts, FEMA has 
utilized expertise across our partnering agencies. For example, 
the U.S. EPA, who is here today, removed household hazardous 
materials. And the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is in the 
process of removing residential and commercial debris. Today, 
we spent over $1 billion in those activities to remove that 
debris and are on pace to have it completed by February 2025.
    As debris removal continues and we are encouraged by homes 
being built, we need to collectively work on accelerating the 
rebuilding. These hollow structures or fresh foundations are 
signs of hope. Housing on Maui is challenging, to say the 
least. Due to preexisting housing shortages and infrastructure 
limitations, locating temporary housing for displaced survivors 
has been a critical component of our effort since August 2023.
    Initially, following the fires, over 8,000 survivors were 
accommodated in hotels as part of emergency sheltering efforts 
that was led by the state, in coordination with FEMA and funded 
by us. Following the state's request for direct housing 
assistance from FEMA, a joint decision was made by FEMA, the 
state, and the county partners to temporarily house survivors 
in short-term vacation rentals through FEMA's Direct Lease 
program and other programs that the state sponsors.
    Short-term vacation rentals were prioritized due to their 
abundance and high vacancy rate on Maui following the 
wildfires. By January 2024, the Agency secured approximately 
1,300 units with leases up to 2 years. FEMA is also temporarily 
in the process of procuring alternative transportable temporary 
housing units for survivors as they work toward their permanent 
housing solution. In collaboration with our partners, we are 
working to install these temporary housing units on a group 
site in Kilohana and on private properties of eligible 
residents who lost their homes during the wildfire.
    Temporary housing solutions are not one size fits all, so 
we continue to explore innovative ways we can to support Mayor 
Bissen's priority of returning Lahaina people to their 
community in Lahaina as quickly and safely as possible.
    President Biden set the tone for the Federal Government's 
role and priority on Maui when he visited after the fire. The 
President emphasized that the community would lead Lahaina's 
recovery; the Federal Government would listen, learn, and 
support, and we will do just that for as long as it takes.
    FEMA has provided over $3 billion in funding. We will 
continue to support Maui's recovery while being mindful of the 
funding required from the Disaster Relief Fund. However, there 
are times when the number of intensity of disasters naturally 
outpaces our appropriated funds. As a result of our dwindling 
Disaster Relief Fund, on August 7, FEMA implemented Immediate 
Needs Funding. Under Immediate Needs Funding, we are 
prioritizing lifesaving and life-sustaining response--disaster 
responses and delaying obligations for longer work.
    Although we will continue to accept and process 
applications for longer term work, FEMA will be unable to 
obligate funding until the Disaster Relief Fund is replenished. 
You have our commitment that FEMA will move quickly to resume 
obligations paused under the INF as soon as the Disaster Relief 
Fund is replenished.
    In closing, I want to extend my deepest condolences to 
those individuals and families who have lost loved ones in the 
fires. I hope collectively we can hold space for their grief 
today and in the days and years to come. I am grateful to 
Governor Green, Mayor Bissen, the first responders, FEMA's 
teams, private nonprofits, and partner agencies for their 
adaptability, endurance, and genuine partnership through this 
response.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to 
answering your questions today.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time. And, 
Administrator Fenton, thank you so much for being here.
    Colonel Swenson, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                          COLONEL ERIC SWENSON
                               COMMANDER
                           ST. PAUL DISTRICT
                      U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS

    Col. Swenson. Aloha. Chairman Sessions and distinguished 
Members of Congress, thank you for the opportunity to testify 
on the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers response to the devastating 
wildfires of August 8, 2023.
    The fires razed historical Lahaina Town, as well as 25 
homes in the central Maui highlands. There were 102 lives lost, 
more than 1,550 properties destroyed, and significant damage to 
public infrastructure. Many of the affected residential 
properties were single family homes that also contained one or 
two additional ohana homes, or family homes, on the lot. These 
housed the workforce, guests, and extended families of the 
people of west Maui, resulting in a greater impact on the 
people of Maui than the numbers might otherwise suggest.
    On August 9, 2023, FEMA issued the initial mission 
assignment to the Corps of Engineers to activate Emergency 
Support Function 3, public works and engineering. This unlocked 
our vast emergency response resources. The next day, we 
mobilized a temporary emergency power planning and response 
team to restore power to the critical infrastructure, including 
water wells, pump stations, and emergency centers. To date, 
FEMA has issued the Corps 10 mission assignments totaling just 
over $1.15 billion.
    Soon after we started our temporary power mission, we 
started debris removal, an extensive and complex mission, with 
an estimated cost exceeding $1 billion. The Corps, under FEMA, 
is leading this effort in partnership with the state, county, 
EPA, industry partners and, most importantly, our cultural 
observers who are experts in their aina, or land, and the 
area's diverse heritage.
    Initial debris removal began in central Maui highlands on 
November 7, 2023, and was complete by January 19, 2024. In 
Lahaina, debris removal started on January 17, 2024. This past 
week, the Corps cleared fire debris from the last residential 
property, which is a massive accomplishment completed months 
ahead of schedule.
    The Corps has also cleared 60 percent or approximately 60 
percent of commercial lots, removed more than 3,100 vehicles, 
and removed 141 vessels from in and around Lahaina Harbor.
    Another significant effort was constructing a temporary 
elementary school to replace the destroyed King Kamehameha III 
Elementary School. We finished this temporary 30-classroom 
campus, complete with a dining facility, administrative 
building, and several support buildings in March 2024. This 
facility was built in just 95 days and now serves 320 students, 
providing a much-needed sense of normalcy for the community.
    To address the acute housing shortage, FEMA tasked the 
Corps with preparing sites for temporary housing. On April 11, 
2024, the Corps awarded a contract to a Dawson subsidiary, 
Aktarius LLC, a Native Hawaiian-owned small business for site 
preparation in Lahaina named Kilohana, a Hawaiian word that 
means ``lookout.'' Kilohana will accommodate 169 homes and 
single families. We anticipate completing site work to include 
a sewer main extension to the county's sanitary lift station by 
October 28 of this year.
    In August 2024, FEMA issued the Corps a mission assignment 
to facilitate the installation of temporary housing units on 
personal property. A challenging mission but one with the 
potential to deliver exactly what residents have asked for, a 
housing solution that gets them back on their aina.
    The success of our mission is largely due to the close 
collaboration between all stakeholders, including Native 
Hawaiians and other residents of Maui. This partnership was 
crucial in ensuring the safety and well-being of Lahaina and 
Kula residents and supporting their ability to rebuild. 
Employing local contractors, including Native Hawaiian-owned 
businesses, has been vital in fostering community trust and 
contributing to the local economy during the recovery.
    Acknowledging Lahaina's deep historical and cultural 
significance, the Corps worked closely with cultural advisers 
and was sensitive to Native Hawaiian traditions, including 
pule, or prayer, before missions and significant events. These 
practices, led by cultural monitors, honored the land and the 
people, fostering trust and respect for the community. This 
approach was critical in ensuring that our efforts were not 
just about rebuilding infrastructure, but also about doing our 
part to heal a community deeply rooted in its heritage.
    Building trust with the local community and finding a 
suitable location for debris storage were significant 
challenges. Without trust, residents would be hesitant to sign 
up to our debris removal program--that would have delayed the 
removal of hazardous debris and the recovery process. We built 
trust by using our public affairs teammates to reach across all 
media, by being present at weekly community meetings, and by 
reaching out to community elders. Our contractors also hired 
local labor and local cultural monitors. When a work crew 
comprised of locals arrived at a residential lot, residents 
felt a personal connection to the debris crew. In some 
instances, family members were clearing family parcels. This 
built credibility within the community and encouraged others to 
sign up for the debris removal program.
    In late 2023, we gained access to a former cinder mine in 
west Maui for our use as a temporary disposal site. That real 
estate transaction gave us and our contractor the land needed 
to construct and operate a site capable of holding all of 
Lahaina's fire debris. The West Maui TDS, though controversial 
at first, has enabled the Corps to rapidly clear fire debris 
from Lahaina.
    As the Commander of the Corps mission for Maui from 
February to August 2024, it was an honor, it is an honor, to 
serve this community and to serve alongside dedicated public 
servants at all levels of government.
    In 6 months, we, the Army Corps of Engineers, finished the 
temporary school, completed all residential debris removal, and 
are poised to complete the remainder of our work by the end of 
February 2025. More than that, the Corps team worked together 
with the people of Maui, with every team member serving as an 
ambassador to this community. To date, we have had over 1,300 
USACE Ambassadors support this recovery mission.
    In conclusion, the Corps is fully committed to the recovery 
and rebuilding of Lahaina Town and all affected areas in Maui. 
We will continue to work tirelessly to restore hope and 
stability to the community.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look 
forward to answering your questions you may have. Mahalo.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time.
    Colonel Swenson, let me say this to you and other members 
of the United States Armed Forces that today serve not only our 
great Nation but are also here and present and taking part in 
this, thank you. Thank you to the United States Armed Forces 
for your service to your families and to the time that you have 
devoted to this.
    I would also like to add, because I failed to earlier, and 
to law enforcement. Men and women of law enforcement, men and 
women of Federal, state, and local law enforcement have devoted 
themself to the others' lives and would put their own life at 
risk. And I want to say that the same about the military. It is 
part of what you do, it is part of what you have done proudly. 
So, I say thank you to United States Armed Forces as well as 
our law enforcement partners. Thank you very much, sir.
    We now want to go to Administrator Sanchez. Sir, thank you 
so much for taking time to be with us. The gentleman is 
recognized for 5 minutes.

                STATEMENT OF MR. FRANCISCO SANCHEZ, JR.
                        ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR
                OFFICE OF DISASTER RECOVERY & RESILIENCE
                     SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION

    Mr. Sanchez. Aloha, Chairman Sessions and distinguished 
Committee Members. Thank you for the invitation to discuss the 
Small Business Administration's response to the Maui wildfires. 
And my deepest gratitude to Representative Tokuda and the 
Hawaii delegation entirely for the warm hospitality and 
gracious welcome, not just to beautiful homeland but for the 
past year, not just today, for welcoming our teams to work 
together to lift Maui and its people up.
    I am Francisco Sanchez, the Associate Administrator for the 
Office of Disaster Recovery & Resilience. And on behalf SBA 
Administrator Isabel Casillas Guzman and the entire agency, 
please know that we deeply appreciate your support of our 
disaster mission.
    Prior to joining SBA, I was the Deputy Homeland Security 
and Emergency Management Coordinator for Harris County, Texas, 
the third largest county in the Nation, which includes the city 
of Houston. And I have had the responsibility, coming from the 
Gulf Coast, to be on command staff for four of our Nation's 10 
most costly natural disasters, as well as to provide oversight 
for security operations of many high-level events, including 
two Super Bowls, three World Series, and multiple national 
security events.
    Over the course of that time, I also served as a 
firefighter for nearly 10 years. And I know firsthand the 
devastation and destruction that fire can cause. And what I saw 
in the immediate hours after the fire was put out in Lahaina 
was certainly one of the most tragic scenes that I have 
witnessed.
    As I walked along Front Street, some of the ground and some 
of those parts of the street were still smoldering. Lives, 
homes, and livelihoods were entirely erased. And the task at 
hand was and remains to be monumental.
    Today, Chairman, we come full circle. Just more than a year 
ago at a hearing much like this one in Florida for Hurricane 
Ian, we discussed SBA's commitment to fulfill its solemn 
obligation to help disaster survivors.
    Today, the greatest transformation of SBA's disaster 
enterprise in the agency's nearly 71-year history is largely 
complete. We are better prepared today than we have ever been 
to help communities recover from disasters.
    The hearing was on August 10, the same day President Biden 
signed the major disaster declaration for my Maui. And I would 
be on the flight the following morning to join Administrator 
Guzman and FEMA Administrator Criswell here on the island the 
next day.
    SBA has provided more than $405 million in loan offers, 
more than $90 million has been disbursed already to disaster 
survivors. And under Administrator Guzman's leadership, SBA's 
sweeping reforms have been integral to our Maui response.
    In July 2023, just days before the fires, SBA updated 
disaster loan limits for the first time since I was graduating 
high school, nearly 30 years. These increases have helped 
ensure that disaster survivors here and elsewhere have the 
sufficient funding they need to recover and to rebuild. Limits 
for a homeowner's primary residence were raised from $200,000 
to $500,000. More than 26 percent of the initial loan approvals 
in Maui were above the previous administrative limit of 
$200,000. Because of these changes, there is an additional 
$101.9 million approved, on the ground, accessible to disaster 
survivors that otherwise would not have access to those funds 
to rebuild.
    SBA also increased loan limits for personal property, such 
as clothing, furniture, automobiles, and appliances, from 
$40,000 to $100,000. SBA also increased initial payment 
deferral from 5 months to 12 months. This means a borrower does 
not need to make a payment and no interest accrues until 1 year 
after disbursement. This allows disaster survivors to focus on 
what matters most, their own personal and financial recovery.
    We also proved that we can be swift, we can be agile. And 
with the authorities Congress has provided us we can pivot to 
deliver on the most critical local priorities. Specifically in 
Maui, SBA increased the disbursement period from 6 months to 24 
months. This means that businesses and homeowners have more 
time to rebuild, that their loan will not lapse, even if they 
cannot start rebuilding today. What once was a lend-and-leave 
program is now a whole-of-SBA effort where we bring every 
resource to bear that we can to help communities rebuild.
    Government contracting is just one of those. SBA's Office 
of the Government Contracting and Business Development 
identified 179 Hawaii-based small businesses owned by veterans, 
women, and Native Hawaiians. As of now, more than $688 million 
in Federal contracts have been awarded to small businesses, 
including $425 million in prime contracts to Hawaii-owned 
firms. That translates to 57.5 percent going to small business 
and 37.8 percent going to Hawaii-based firms. And I will 
commend Army Corps of Engineers that have been a critical 
partner in helping us reach those targets. And if we can do 
this on an island in the middle of the Pacific, we can 
translate this to other places in the continental United 
States.
    We have done more than that in the past year, but we have 
more work to do. This week I will be hearing directly from the 
residents and people of Maui to see what the work in the coming 
years looks like, because communities recover stronger when we 
strengthen how we work together.
    So, mahalo for your support of SBA. And I look forward to 
answering your questions.
    Mr. Sessions. Administrator, thank you very much. The 
gentleman yields back his time, and thank you very much.
    I think we all see why sometimes 5 minutes does not fit 
perfectly, and you took good advantage to make sure that we 
received information we needed to know.
    Administrator Peterson, welcome. We are delighted that you 
are here. The gentlewoman is recognized for 5 minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF MS. CHEREE PETERSON
                DEPUTY REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR (REGION 9)
                    ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

    Ms. Peterson. Aloha, Chairman Sessions and Members of the 
Subcommittee. On behalf of the U.S. Environmental Protection 
Agency, thank you so much for inviting me here today.
    EPA's mission is to protect human health and the 
environment. We strive to provide clean water, clean air, and 
clean land to all communities. Under this mission, ensuring 
that that includes recovery and response to disasters, such as 
the terrible one that occurred in Maui in 2023. This remains a 
top priority for EPA and myself.
    On August 10, President Biden signed a major disaster 
declaration. Within 24 hours, EPA personnel were on the ground 
responding. Since this tragedy struck, I personally have been 
in Lahaina four times and have continued to bring staff here. 
Over 300 people have come from all across EPA.
    I have seen firsthand the devastation in Lahaina, heard 
firsthand the stories of the communities and residents here, as 
well as the community leaders. It has affected me profoundly, 
as has it for every EPA personnel member who has come here. 
These personal experiences will remain with us and continue to 
motivate us here.
    As part of the emergency response, FEMA has assigned the 
EPA three missions: hazardous material removal, water 
infrastructure technical assistance, and sustainability advice 
during the recovery process. Today, I am here to provide 
updates on what we have accomplished, as well as what we are 
continuing to work on today.
    On August 17, 2023, only 7 days after the disaster 
declaration, EPA began removing hazardous material from the 
city of Lahaina. During this period, we removed 200 tons, by 
hand, of hazardous material from 1,374 properties, residential 
properties, and 74 commercial properties. We did so and 
completed this mission by December 22, which I want to 
highlight was done 30 days ahead of deadline and $20 million 
under budget. During this time, we also set up five air 
monitoring stations so that the County of Maui would be able to 
understand any air quality issues affecting their communities. 
We placed these air monitors in the most vulnerable sections of 
the community, to include our schools.
    Our next mission was to deploy our water emergencies 
technical assistance team. They provide guidance and technical 
assistance to the County of Maui for our storm water, drinking 
water and wastewater. Over the last 7 months, EPA has tested 
over 1,300 drinking water lateral lines that connect to main 
sewer lines. Of these, we identified 600 that contained 
contaminated water and contaminated substance, and we alerted 
Maui County so that they could be capped and protected from the 
rest of the water system. We also cleared and inspected over 
98,000 linear feet of the sewer system so that it would be 
operable as soon as people would be able to rebuild.
    Through these efforts, the EPA has enabled water advisories 
to be lifted sooner, for water treatment plants to become 
online, and to protect segments of the water infrastructure to 
prevent ash and debris from flowing into saltwater and fresh 
groundwater.
    On July 17, on time and on budget, EPA completed our 
drinking water and wastewater emergency response.
    Currently, we are working to design, for the Wahikuli 
Terrace neighborhood, a connection to the sewer system. This 
will eliminate the need for cesspools that degrade the 
environment.
    The last mission EPA received was for sustainability. This 
is a long-term advisor to assist rebuilding communities and 
restoring watersheds with the aim of helping the communities be 
more resilient in the face of this kind of disaster. The 
sustainability advisor continues to collaborate with local and 
state departments, as well as our Federal family at the table 
here, to understand local priorities and identify potential 
funding sources for long-term recovery.
    The most important aspect of what EPA did here was to 
approach this mission so that it was deeply rooted in respect 
for Hawaii's unique cultural heritage. Through consultation 
with Maui's community and cultural leaders, we cooperatively 
developed a cultural strategy that set a new standard for EPA 
for Federal response. This included establishing cultural 
sensitivity training, as you heard, that continues today with 
the Federal family. We placed cultural monitors at each of our 
hazmat teams, and we also imbedded--over 50 percent of our on-
island staff were locals, and we are very proud of this. We 
also set new code of conduct for all of our contractors and our 
personnel. My partner agencies continue this work so that we 
protect as much as possible the rich cultural heritage of 
Lahaina.
    Throughout the response, EPA was dedicated to communicating 
with the communities as clearly and frequently as possible. We 
appeared every week in the public meetings, and we appeared at 
multiple venues, to include the formal disaster assistance 
session that were continually opened here in the Lahaina 
Center, as well as the more informal one, such as the one that 
took place in the Pele Park. We strive to keep the residents 
and the community informed on everything we do.
    We worked very closely with our local, state, and Federal 
partners. I am so grateful to be at this table with this 
wonderful and cooperative team that allowed us to get in and do 
our mission.
    EPA remains committed to long-term recovery. I have walked 
the streets of Lahaina and Kula and have spoken with community 
leaders and residents. Their stories of loss, resilience, and 
hope motivates both myself and the entire EPA to continue 
supporting Maui's recovery. The incredible strength and spirit 
of the Maui community inspires us, and their needs guide our 
work.
    Mahalo nui loa. I look forward to your questions.
    Mr. Sessions. Administrator, thank you very much. Following 
your words of, perhaps, the way you have operated, we will 
offer some bit of feedback now too. And I would move to the 
distinguished gentlewoman, Congresswoman Tokuda, on our attempt 
to try and be more forthright too.
    The gentlewoman is recognized.
    Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    You know, while this hearing may be slightly different from 
others that have attended hearings here in the state 
legislature and the city council, and there is no formal period 
for public comment, we want to be able to share what you have 
to say and make sure that you are heard.
    And so, for those who would like to, there are comment 
cards that are available that will be handed around by staff 
that you can please fill out. Put your thoughts down, your 
contact information, and it will be put as part of the official 
record of this Committee.
    So, Mr. Chair, Committee Members, I do appreciate this 
opportunity to allow our people to be able to participate and 
give comment today.
    Mr. Sessions. We are delighted. We had decided we are going 
to do that at the end. We decided we are going to do it in the 
middle.
    Administrator Peterson, thank you for your feedback.
    We now would move to the distinguished gentlewoman from 
California, my colleague, Ms. Porter.
    Ms. Porter. Thank you very much.
    I want to start with you, Mr. Sanchez, and talk about the 
SBA's role here. About how many applications have you received 
from those affected by this disaster?
    Mr. Sanchez. Completed applications is roughly 6,000.
    Ms. Porter. Six thousand. Were there more that were started 
but not finished?
    Mr. Sanchez. Yes. There were about 6,400 that were started.
    Ms. Porter. And what have you done to--sorry. What have you 
done to locate those people who started an application but 
maybe did not finish it, to try to understand why?
    Mr. Sanchez. Sure. We have gone through our teams on the 
ground as we have researched the data base, who started an 
application, maybe did not finish it. We have done multiple 
attempts. For example, we reached out just earlier this year to 
about 309 of those; 308 of those we were able to identify. At 
the end of the day, we were able to make positive contact with 
about 240 of those, and we tried multiple times over 2 weeks, 
and we identified ``why haven't you completed it?'' Sometimes 
the answer was no interest at this time. Sometimes they needed 
additional paperwork or guidance, and then our teams were able 
to follow up with them directly to help get them over the 
finish line.
    Ms. Porter. I think that is really helpful because I think, 
in the wake of an event like this, there is sort of lots of 
different people coming to help, and people are not sure where 
they belong. And so, I think that follow up and that tracking 
is really one of the most important things government can do.
    I think often we focus on what gets disbursed, what gets 
done. And I think one of the important things we asked 
ourselves--we actually have to study who does not apply, who 
does not know about the program, who does not complete it to 
kind of understand whether we are being effective.
    I also wanted to ask you about, sort of, the role of the 
SBA writ large, because I think this is one of the agencies 
that maybe has a little bit of a public relations problem in 
that you also assist individuals. Can you talk about that? 
Because I think what is a business under the SBA is complex and 
I think often makes it challenging for people to know whether 
they can and should be asking you for assistance.
    Mr. Sanchez. Sure. Many people do not know that SBA helps 
homeowners, renters, and businesses, and private nonprofits 
help to recover after disaster, and we are here to help with 
your uninsured losses or underinsured losses.
    And for perspective, local and state governments typically 
do more business with SBA than almost any other Federal agency. 
Certainly, FEMA comes in for the Presidentially declared 
disasters. For perspective, we were on the ground for 472 
disasters last year. Since 2000, there have only been 3 years 
where there have been more Presidential disasters than SBA-
declared disasters.
    And so, while we are on the ground more often, we do need 
the help of local communities and nonprofits and local leaders 
to explain to people that you can come to SBA and the value of 
a long-term--low-interest, long-term loan.
    Ms. Porter. So, I wanted to go back to those 6,000 
applications that were received. How many has SBA accepted so 
far?
    Mr. Sanchez. Of those--we received about 6,028 applications 
fully completed. We have approved 2,278 of those loans. The 
vast majority of those, about 1,434 are for homes, 356 for 
businesses, and 488 for economic injury disaster loans. That 
is, businesses that were not physically impacted but are seeing 
a downturn in revenue, and some of those businesses may have 
been both physically and economically injured.
    Ms. Porter. So, what about the other 3,740 and change? Are 
you still reviewing them? What is their status? What is the 
timeline? Have they been denied? What can you tell us about 
that?
    Mr. Sanchez. Sure. One of the concerns is this is a 
protracted recovery. We will be here for a while, and so some 
of the--we continue to reach out. There are folks that I 
continue to reach out personally--I have been--this is my third 
time on the island--to help get through the process and see 
where they are. We will be here for the long haul.
    People are recovering at their own pace. We are learning 
the different culture of the island, the pace at which people 
come. We have--and so that is--that we are leading from the 
ground up is critical to us.
    In terms of how long we will be here, it has been--we have 
done a 2-year--people can draw down 2 years from being sent the 
loan. We recently signed a lease for 2 years with extension to 
extend. We know this is going to be a long recovery, so we are 
going to--we have 10 staff on the ground; 5 of those are local 
hires.
    And so, we are committed to be here a long--however long it 
takes for us to get people across the finish line.
    Ms. Porter. Yes. I think this is a really important point 
that--the work that you have done in terms of increasing the 
disbursement period. I think sometimes we focus on, you know, 
every dollar has to go out right away, and I think what that 
misses is that sometimes not everyone wants their dollars right 
away because once you take the money, then the time starts 
ticking for the repayment and the rebuilding.
    And we are now, as we have heard from the EPA and from the 
engineers and from FEMA, we are now in a place 1 year later 
where water has been restored, power has been restored, debris 
has been removed, and we can start actually that rebuilding 
process.
    So, I just want to emphasize to the public, I think 
sometimes there is a sense of every dollar has not gone out and 
it has been a year. I think your point about centering when 
people are ready for that help and being here in the long term 
is really important.
    So, I just--I want to suggest to you that that lengthened 
disbursal process and that lengthened repayment period is 
something that I think, particularly for fire, we might need to 
adopt more agencywide. I do think there are unique things about 
Lahaina, but I think fire generally, a little bit different 
than flood, for example.
    But even flood, I think we are just experiencing bigger 
disasters, and that means it takes a longer time to do the 
cleanup and repair. We are doing it in a more both culturally 
sensitive way but environmentally safe way, and what that means 
is we cannot always disburse the money as quickly. And so, I 
would encourage you to think about that.
    I actually have more questions, but I am going to--my time 
has expired, and I hope we have a chance to come back around, 
Mr. Chair, if we can.
    Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. The gentlewoman yields 
back her time.
    The answer to that is, yes, we will do that. You had 
previously directed that comment to me, and I wanted to be as 
realistic as I could. We do not have 40 members here. We have 
Members who are here----
    Ms. Porter. You should be thankful we do not have 40 
Members.
    Mr. Sessions. Well, I agree with that also.
    We now move to the distinguished gentlewoman, Ms. Tokuda, 
for her 5 minutes.
    Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    And, you know, I just want to follow up on Representative 
Porter's comments. But first, Mr. Sanchez, I remember, in just 
the days after the fire, Administrator Guzman coming to the War 
Memorial with us to see a congregate shelter, helping us to 
actually translate in Spanish because we did not have a 
translator right there at the time, and allowing my team to 
then help this person, you know, get their papers that had 
burned in the fire.
    And so, just really appreciative that it was boots on the 
ground for anything that was required of us. So, please relay 
my thanks to the Administrator.
    But I did want to follow up, and you and I kind of started 
the conversation earlier today. You know, as we know, small 
businesses, I almost call them micro businesses, mom and pop 
shops here, they are the core of Hawaii's economy and 
definitely the case in Lahaina, and that is particularly true 
of this area.
    And so many of our small businesses, quite frankly, as we 
discussed, were still recovering from the pandemic. They were 
still trying to pay off their existing EIDL loans from the SBA. 
The fires hit, and all of a sudden, while you have got 
deferment, the thought of taking on another obligation is quite 
daunting for many, from a credit perspective, from a 
responsibility perspective. And as a result, they had 
significant challenges many times securing further assistance 
from the SBA, as Representative Porter alluded to.
    Mr. Sanchez, in the most recent numbers that we have been 
looking at, more than half of our home and business 
applications were denied or withdrawn. Withdrawn oftentimes 
meaning they could not get documentation or answers required to 
actually complete it. And in the case of EIDL loans, about two-
thirds of all applications were denied or withdrawn, and it is 
a timing thing.
    But as we discussed earlier, how are we going to work to 
get those thousands of applications that came through, how do 
we get them to yes? Because many of these individuals need 
those resources to either rebuild, to be able to stay here in 
the place that they love. And so how are we getting to yes?
    Mr. Sanchez. Yes. So, we are very deeply committed to try 
to get people across the finish line and to yes. It is 
something that we learned in Florida. We learned it in 
Kentucky. We learned it in Selma, Alabama. And so, we launched 
our reconsideration campaign. That means if you get a no from 
SBA, we are going to go back and figure out why the answer was 
no.
    One of the things that we have done through our 
reconsideration campaign, typically our credit score is a 
certain number, minimum credit score. If you are within five 
points of that, there is a decent chance we can get you back to 
yes by working with you through SBA district offices and our 
resource partners. We expanded that here to 10, within 10 
points.
    And so let me tell you what that actually means. It means, 
because we go back and help get people to yes and devote the 
time, energy, and the resources that is required for that, in 
Selma, a decline went from no to $400,000 in capital because we 
went back and tried to get folks to yes.
    I worked personally with one survivor here who was having 
challenges with the paperwork and other issues, was frustrated. 
We got that disaster survivor from wanting to walk away to 
$574,000 in approved capital for them to start rebuilding their 
home and their business.
    And so that is the kind of approach that we are taking. And 
so, we are bringing in our resource partners, like Operation 
Hope, our small business development centers, and really that 
team effort and that going from just the lend-and-leave program 
that we used to be and that whole-of-SBA approach to bringing 
every resource we can to bear to help people through that 
application process. And not only that, try to get them other 
resources that they need.
    Ms. Tokuda. Thank you.
    And as we discussed earlier, hopefully consideration can be 
made. Many of the things that disqualified people or forced 
them to withdraw, whether documentation, credit scores, 
financing, it was because of the fires. And so, they need extra 
help to get them to that yes point where they will be eligible. 
So, I'm sure we will have more discussion on that.
    But, Mr. Fenton, would love to chat with you. First of all, 
Chair, I will have you know, a few days when I first met him, I 
asked him, ``Where did you have breakfast this morning?'' And 
he said, Tasty Crust. I knew we are in good hands because he 
was eating with the locals from day one.
    So, thank you, Mr. Fenton, for being here nonstop for the 
past year. And, you know, you kind of talked a little bit 
about, in your verbal and your written testimony, about the 
biggest challenge over the past year being housing, the 
thousands of displaced individuals and households living in an 
already tight market. The majority were renters, many living on 
top of each other in many particular situations, and how it was 
a joint decision between FEMA, the Governor, and the Mayor to 
kind of target the short-term vacation rentals so that we can 
quickly put survivors into these homes.
    And in testimony, Mayor Bissen talks about how, you know, 
the unintended consequences were the negative impacts on the 
housing market island-wide and for many residents that have 
been displaced. And there have been multiple counts of 
predatory behavior. Some landlords have scrambled to secure the 
higher, you know, rents paid by FEMA's Direct Lease program and 
the state's equivalent program and displace current residents 
right now.
    And so, Mr. Fenton, given what you know now, would this 
still have been the best approach for transitioning survivors 
out of non-congregate shelters into this Direct Lease program?
    Mr. Fenton. Yes, I think at the speed that we had to do it, 
this was the only resource that had those many units available. 
We have had less--since we have primarily focused on the 
vacation rental market, we tried to limit the impact to 
individuals here that were significantly impacted by this 
event. Over 4,000 units lost in this significant event. So, we 
tried to limit that.
    We have less than 10 that have been brought to us as 
potential issues where people have been displaced. We have 
turned those all over to the state's attorney general to take 
action against that.
    But I do not know if there would have been any quicker 
solution just because of the limitation of infrastructure, 
water, and other issues to develop sites. It has taken us right 
now, I think the site that we are doing, somewhere around 9 
months to do that. We assessed over 20 different properties and 
really had limited solutions to do that. Most of the people 
want to stay on the west side, and so there is just not a lot 
of good solutions.
    I think the vacation rental, use of vacation rentals was 
the best solution and the most timely solution. I think in 
retrospect, we should go back and look at that and figure out 
how to really utilize that in combination with local 
authorities or regulations, and how can we more manage that 
better in the future if we had to do something similar.
    We may also want to look at maybe a quicker housing 
solution. You know, right now, our housing solution is really 
what we use in the mainland that we are exporting out here, 
which takes a long time. So, can we use something that is more 
austere that uses maybe solar or other things that do not 
require as much infrastructure as we do right now?
    So, there are things that we can do to look at how we are 
setting up our infrastructure here and not have as a robust, 
you know, a system that we have on the mainland and something 
that works better maybe with some of the conditions as we go 
into the Pacific, especially the far Western Pacific.
    Ms. Tokuda. Absolutely. Thank you.
    And I know I have more questions, but thank you. I 
definitely think a hot wash after all of this is done to take a 
look at how we can come up with better alternative approaches, 
whether in Hawaii or anywhere in the continental United States, 
would be a good one.
    And also, understanding the human capacity, you know, in 
terms of regulation that exists here and ability to be able to 
manage what ultimately became predatory behavior, whether 
reported or not. What we do know is there has been 
displacement. That is unacceptable across the board.
    And so, thank you for that, and we look forward to more 
discussion throughout the hearing.
    But, Mr. Chair, I will yield back.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
    I now move to the distinguished gentleman, my dear friend, 
Congressman Case. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Case. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Fenton, we have all made reference, not all of us but 
certainly two of us have made reference to Immediate Needs 
Funding restrictions now placed by FEMA on funding of disasters 
due to the shortfall in the Disaster Relief Fund. And you 
testified that that meant you would not be able to, 
essentially, obligate long-term funding recovery efforts and 
needed to move to immediate disaster-related stuff. And we 
obviously have a lot of disasters around the country.
    So, what is the practical impact if they do not solve the 
DRF soon? What is going to be the practical impact to the Maui 
recovery from the restriction of Immediate Needs Funding?
    Mr. Fenton. It delays long-term recovery. It delays 
building, rebuilding of infrastructure. We are unable to 
obligate the funding that is needed to rebuild permanent 
infrastructure. And so, while we currently right now have 
sufficient funds to continue to help individuals with housing 
or other immediate needs, that too is starting to be 
threatened.
    So, the impact is really to--you know, and we are at a very 
good stage right now with debris being removed, water coming 
on, and power coming on to actually start rebuilding the 
infrastructure, and that will delay that process and elongate 
the recovery and impact Maui further.
    Mr. Case. OK. Thank you.
    And then switching to the subject of housing, because I 
think we would agree that this has been probably the most 
problematic part of the recovery is taking kind of FEMA's more, 
you know, continent-based approach to transitional housing and 
long-term recovery housing and trying to transpose that into a 
much different housing environment. Ms. Porter made reference 
to this.
    And we have had many discussions along these lines, and you 
with the congressional delegation, and this is an area that we 
have on occasion disagreed on what the right path is. I think 
we are on a good path now, but I just want to make sure of some 
basic facts.
    If I understand correctly, and this comes from my staff's 
conversation with you a few weeks ago, somewhere in the range 
of 4,300 households were eligible for transitional housing. The 
information that I think I got back from you through them was 
that somewhere in the range of 1,300 had actually requested 
assistance, and that 1,300 is distributed in various ways.
    The Direct Lease program, you know, some of them found 
permanent solutions. The Kilohana group site was referenced, 
and some of your smaller transitional housing that you are 
actually constructing.
    I guess, first of all, are the facts correct? And second, 
if those are correct, what did happen to the other 2,000-some-
odd? It seems a large number to me looking at it today.
    Mr. Fenton. Yes. So, over 4,000 qualified what we call 
direct housing. That means they are a renter or owner and their 
home was destroyed by the fire. And then what happens is we 
conduct a preplacement interview with each one of those 4,000 
households. So, these are households, not individuals, 
households. We conduct interviews with each one of them to 
understand what their needs are.
    A large number were able to secure housing. Some were 
insured and have LAE or LOU and used that insurance. Some were 
able to find other housing. And so those discussions and 
sometimes as many as 10 discussions with an individual 
household led us to 1,300 need some type of direct housing, 
meaning that we have no housing, we need help from the Federal 
Government to house us.
    The average in my region, Pacific or mainland, is usually 
less than 10 percent. So right now, we are at about 32 percent, 
which is a higher than normal number but I think well within 
the norm of what we see on other disasters.
    Mr. Case. OK. So, do you have any expectation--is that 
number then pretty firm? Is that the universe we're dealing 
with? I guess the question I am asking is, is it possible that 
some of the people who did not go into the transitional housing 
program would, in fact, still go into it in some way, shape, or 
form if the option was there? Or are they pretty much out of--
off your radar at this point from this perspective at least?
    Mr. Fenton. There has been very few that have come back up 
that had a situation that has changed it. I would want to say 
in the single digits over the last couple of months. There are 
some right now whose LAE or LOU has been exhausted, and then 
what they are going into is our continued housing assistance 
where we provide them 175 percent of rental cost and help them 
continue to rent units there.
    Mr. Case. OK. Great.
    I also have a few more questions, but I will defer, Mr. 
Chair.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time. Thank you 
very much, Ed.
    I will now yield myself 5 minutes for the purpose of 
questioning.
    Administrator Sanchez, I am going to aim the first question 
at you, and then I have a second question that I would 
encourage any of you to respond to.
    You and I both know that these are four agencies that are 
represented here. That does not represent the entire U.S. 
Government. There are certainly issues related to the IRS and 
other reporting, perhaps those who have student loans and other 
things that would need that output.
    Do you believe that they have been adequately addressed as 
you look across this entire process, that you had help from 
other agencies and answered those questions?
    Mr. Sanchez. Yes, sir. I think one of the things that we 
have learned from disaster to disaster is that if you are one 
of the most impacted disaster survivors, you probably will not 
file in the first 30, 60, 90 days. You come in later and you 
are missing paperwork. You need questions.
    One of the things that we have built a strong partnership, 
for example, with the Internal Revenue Service if we cannot 
find--if that disaster survivor cannot find tax records, we 
will go out and do that for them on behalf of the IRS. Just, 
you know, for example, we know that 59 of those IRS did not 
have records because we went and looked.
    In addition, beyond that, we are also working with our 
resource partners beyond the Federal Government because it has 
to be a state, local, and Federal and nonprofit response. We 
are working with nonprofits to get that paperwork and other 
issues they need to get businesses across the finish line.
    Mr. Sessions. Did you run across anyone that was seeking 
assistance for a business or something where there were no IRS 
records that were available from the IRS?
    Mr. Sanchez. Fifty-nine of those, yes, sir.
    Mr. Sessions. Fifty-nine.
    Did you extend to them the advantages of the Federal 
Government, even though they had, perhaps, not taken the time 
to file paperwork about what they had been doing previously? 
How did you handle that?
    Mr. Sanchez. We connect them to other resources because we 
are a lending program, not a grant program.
    Mr. Sessions. Right.
    Mr. Sanchez. There are certain requirements----
    Mr. Sessions. Well, that might be the IRS. So, we will be 
asking the IRS about how they handled that. I think it is 
important for the Members of Congress to know that if someone 
chose not to legitimately register their business, to pay their 
taxes, and do those things, I, as one Member, would want to 
question what would that response be so that I would be aware.
    Thank you very much.
    The overwhelming thing that we--has struck me today is that 
the flexibility that you were given, each of you--and I applaud 
that and I think that is important--but it is, I think, 
important for people to understand what the rules of the game 
are, how long they have, how flexible you have become in that 
process.
    Do you believe that you have adequately made sure that, 
perhaps our young Mayor, perhaps other people, perhaps 
organize--yes, Mayor, I did call you young. He smiled at his 
wife. He smiled at his wife, and she assured him back, yes, 
honey, you are a young mayor.
    But have these become known across, what I would say, the 
needs of the island to where it may not get to everybody but to 
where everybody goes, yes, we knew the rules? As opposed to, 
you know, I did not really ever understand what we were trying 
to get at.
    Do you think that you have adequately brought these rules, 
regulations, timeframes, responses, answers to a broad group of 
people?
    Administrator Fenton, I will let you go first.
    Mr. Fenton. Thank you, sir.
    I think it is a continuing process. What I have found on 
Pacific islands, and I have had a number of discussions with 
young Mayor a number of times during this event, but it is a 
continuing education. It is not a straight line. It is a Venn 
diagram, and it can take continuous effort, and it's just not, 
you know, myself communicating it. It is others communicating 
it. It is the community communicating it.
    I think the Mayor's advisory program is critical to bring 
senior leaders from the community in. You know, how do we 
educate them, so they carry the message? Maybe using faith-
based leaders, maybe using other individuals. It is a 
continuing effort.
    Mr. Sessions. Do you think you say the same thing every 
time of what the rules are to every single group?
    Mr. Fenton. Yes. I think that sometimes, you know, when you 
have an organization as big as ours, not everyone is on the 
same message sometimes, and we have to continue to improve 
that. I think that sometimes, you know, Federal Government 
programs can be over bureaucratic and the more that we----
    Mr. Sessions. Yes, sir, but we are talking about the rules. 
We are talking about the flexibility that Administrator Sanchez 
so adequately explained as the flexibility. Here are the rules. 
And that is where I think it is important to recognize how you 
had some people who may not have qualified, and we need to make 
sure those rules are there.
    So, you would say it is an ongoing process, something that 
you need to remember is very important, and sharing that 
information.
    Administrator Sanchez?
    Thank you, Mr. Fenton.
    Mr. Sanchez. So, certainly, a great question, Chairman, 
because our parameters for just doing disaster lending are 
pretty--those are set.
    Mr. Sessions. Have they changed?
    Mr. Sanchez. The rules not to qualify change. The rules in 
which you can access the loans.
    Mr. Sessions. I do agree.
    Mr. Sanchez. And so, one of the things, it is kind of a 
victim of sort of our innovation. We want to lead from the 
ground up and meet local priority. So, some of the parameters 
did change to be responsive to the local needs. Like we are 
doing this----
    Mr. Sessions. And have they been well communicated?
    Mr. Sanchez. We are doing that daily, but, again, on this 
visit, we have heard the need for more flexibility. And so, it 
is a challenge to be innovative but also go back, and we have 
tried to with 10,000 emails to homeowners, 4,000 emails to 
businesses, 6,400 actual physical contacts with disaster 
survivors to let them know what those changes are.
    I think we can be nimble, but I think we can also do a 
better job of making sure that the person that got a loan on 
day 10 understands the flexibilities that are now there 3 
months later when someone may have gotten their loan as well. 
So, it is a work in progress.
    Mr. Sessions. I think the same things also, and we will 
completely defer to you, but to say to people ``we are now 
halfway through this period, if you fit or believe you are 
going to be doing this''--things like that, reminding people.
    If I were involved in something that was highly difficult 
in my life, I would want a little bit of a reminder. Not today, 
``you have got till tomorrow,'' but, rather, today, ``you have 
got 6 months'' as a reminder.
    Thank you very much. I think these are the two questions 
that I have.
    I now would like to advise the panel that we are going to 
go through a second round in the same order.
    The distinguished gentlewoman from California is 
recognized.
    Ms. Porter. Thank you.
    Mr. Fenton, I wanted to talk with you a little bit about 
some of your housing recommendations, following up a little bit 
on what my colleague, Representative Case, said.
    It is notable to me as I prepared for this hearing and 
heard over and over again that housing remains the biggest 
unsolved challenge--we have made great progress in many other 
areas--that HUD, Housing and Urban Development, is not here 
today. And I think this reflects nothing about the preparation 
but something more structural in our Federal Government about 
the role of HUD and how that agency works. HUD, again, Housing 
and Urban Development.
    Can you talk about how we might better integrate HUD into 
disaster relief? What are the barriers structurally, funding-
wise? How can we do better going forward on that piece?
    Mr. Fenton. Yes. So, HUD has been here as part of our team, 
the interagency team that has been here since the beginning, 
but there is a number of limitations, both on my side and HUD's 
side.
    My side is primarily focused at temporary housing to be an 
interim solution that is usually set at 18 months. Now, I can 
extend that, and in this event, I will extend that temporary 
housing.
    But when we start talking about permanent housing, there 
are some things I could do. On public--on the infrastructure, 
if HUD does not have the funding, I can step in and fund it, 
and I have done that here for some of the publicly damaged 
ones.
    But probably the biggest tool that we have is HUD's CDBG-R 
program, and it is not an annual appropriation but usually done 
through supplementals. And so, what is happening is you have 
this interim authority that comes in through FEMA to 
temporarily meet the immediate needs, the mass care needs, put 
people in non-congregate sheltering, temporarily house people 
without that authority working simultaneously to work on the 
long-term solutions.
    And so, what is happening is--and that one takes the 
longest to actually implement. So, if you do not work it as we 
are working the other ones, you get to a point where I have now 
got to my 18 months and there is nothing there, right, because 
this one takes the longest to develop permanent infrastructure.
    We are actually doing a pretty good job of phasing 
everything in here by having the debris removed within a year 
for residential. The water system is back operational because 
of EPA's work and the Corps' work and all the sewer systems. 
So, we are ready for the infrastructure. We are ready for the 
community to build.
    What is lacking is that Federal funding to help the 
rebuilding. SBA is there within the loan part, but HUD needs to 
be there, and it is really because it is a supplemental funding 
through the CDBG-R that that does not exist, and it is a tool 
that the Mayor does not have to use.
    Ms. Porter. Yes. And I think that really illustrates that 
there is a focus on kind of the day one, the money for the day 
one, but we have to start planning and funding for the long 
term on day one. And so instead, there is a focus on getting it 
out quickly and not on sort of the longer term. And by the time 
we go to do that, then it creates that gap, right, that gap 
where people fall into between what you can do and the HUD 
piece.
    I also wanted to ask you, in your testimony, you mentioned 
the Permanent Housing Construction program. Is that correct?
    Mr. Fenton. I do not remember----
    Ms. Porter. But is it true that you cannot do that outside 
the continental United States?
    Mr. Fenton. No, I could do it outside the continental 
United States. So, it is based on--initially, maybe about 10, 
20 years ago, it was only for ancillary areas, but that has 
changed now, and it is--we are able to do it anywhere where 
there is a need and it is cost-effective.
    There are certain conditions that need to be met as far as 
there has to be no alternate housing resources available. There 
has to be also other forms of--no forms of other temporary 
housing, they are unavailable or infeasible or not cost-
effective. So, this makes it very difficult.
    Ms. Porter. So, can I ask you? I mean, from a taxpayer 
perspective, realizing that, reportedly--and please correct me 
if this is wrong--in some instances, the government was paying 
upwards of $1,000 per night for short-term housing, which is I 
think pretty eye popping for taxpayers around the country.
    Why not deploy the Permanent Housing Construction program? 
In other words, given the housing shortage we have already in 
so many communities, when there is a disaster, does it make 
sense to have FEMA focus so much on a temporary instead of on a 
better balance between temporary and permanent?
    Mr. Fenton. Well, there still needs to be a temporary 
solution because what do you do with individuals the length of 
time it takes you to rebuild? And we know in fires, it is 
probably going to take you a year before the infrastructure and 
the housing is ready to rebuild because of the debris removal 
and restoration of infrastructure, even longer than hurricanes, 
floods, or other events.
    And so, what do you do to house people? So, you need to 
have that temporary solution but also need to be able to work 
the permanent solution.
    Ms. Porter. Yes. I guess I wonder about more austere 
temporary with a bigger commitment to permanent right at the 
get-go. Does that make sense? Rather than what we have kind of 
been doing, which is pretty long temporary, and then relying on 
that gap to close the permanent.
    I want to turn quickly to Ms. Peterson. Can you talk about 
the role of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the grants 
that have gone out with regard to electrical grid improvement 
and water infrastructure for Hawaii and Maui in particular?
    Ms. Peterson. Sure. So, the funds that we use to inspect 
both the drinking water and sewer water, those were all through 
FEMA. It was not through the IRA process.
    We have not done anything in particular in the electrical 
grid. Certainly, when they are a little farther in rebuilding 
because the solar for all program goes through 2025 and 2026, 
this community would be eligible to apply as an underserved 
community for solar for different parts of their community.
    But at the stage of the rebuilding, there is not--to my 
knowledge, we do not have any applications, but I can have our 
staff get back to you more further because I am not quite sure.
    Ms. Porter. Because my understanding is that Hawaii 
generally--and maybe Mr. Case knows more about this--but that 
Hawaii generally received like $95 million for electrical grid, 
and I just do not know how much of that is then being allocated 
out. You know, this is always a challenge I think in any 
community. It is a bigger challenge in island communities that 
are noncontiguous.
    But I think that there was $95 million allocated for 
electrical grid improvements and $50 million for water 
infrastructure improvements through the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law, and I think EPA--before your time, to be 
fair--gave out those grants.
    So, I think one of the questions I have for the second 
panel, that I am going to stop talking so we can get to, is how 
much of that is coming to Maui and whether or not we are 
leveraging that effectively to prevent the next disaster.
    So, with that, I will stop, and I can thank the Chairman 
for his indulgence.
    Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. The gentlewoman yields 
back her time.
    Does the gentlewoman seek time?
    Ms. Tokuda. Yes, I do.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman is recognized.
    Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    I want to elaborate a little bit on the line of questioning 
there. Mr. Fenton, let us talk about the permanent housing 
construction authority. Correct me if I am wrong--and I am 
reading your testimony. So, at that point when you could have 
triggered the Permanent Housing Construction authority, was the 
collective decision of the Mayor and the Governor in talking 
with FEMA to instead pursue the route of the Direct Lease?
    Or tell me what has to happen just so we can have a 
forward-looking view of how do you get us to that permanent 
housing construction versus the more temporary transitional 
kinds of housing that we are seeing right now.
    Mr. Fenton. Yes. So, permanent housing for us is 
underneath--our authority is underneath the Stafford Act 
408(c)(4), I believe is where it is at. And I think the 
limitations there are, one, it has to be a homeowner as we look 
at it. And we do--we have done it on some other Pacific 
islands. It has to be uninsured. So, you are talking now about 
a population that fits that that is probably underneath a 
hundred on this. Ninety percent of the people displaced were 
renters here. So, it is not, you know, a silver bullet, if you 
will, to meet a large need.
    Next, it has to be--there has to be no other solutions for 
temporary housing, and it has to be cost-effective.
    And so, there are a number of other solutions here. There 
is Direct Lease. We could put in a temporary unit. There is a 
lot of other solutions before you get to housing.
    Just to give you an idea, to build on--last time we built 
was probably about 10 years ago, out here in the Pacific, maybe 
about 8, 10 years ago, and it was about $400,000 per unit to 
build.
    The cost out here to build is over $900 a square feet right 
now. You are talking over a million-something dollars per house 
to rebuild out here, which would not make it feasible based on 
the authorities that I have right now to do that.
    Our authority really focuses on, you know, temporary 
solutions. And I have used the ones that provide the most 
solutions the quickest, understanding that this will be a need 
that probably goes on 6 years here when we have----
    Ms. Tokuda. You are basically the houser of last resort----
    Mr. Fenton. Yes.
    Ms. Tokuda [continuing]. If you will. And so probably, 
congressionally, we would have to take a look at whether or not 
those authorities could be brought in a bit to take into 
account these kind of different situations where we may not 
want to look at it just being for the uninsured or for, you 
know, a homeowner but particularly, I think in this case, where 
there is not many other options.
    And I think when you look at our housing market, not many 
options is particularly the box that we check off quite well 
here. And so, just maybe if we could talk a little bit more 
about the permanent--more of the building units, the Kilohana 
project, 169.
    As you know, for our congressional delegation, and we have 
said this multiple times, we would love to just actually see us 
get to a thousand temporary units built here, partly because we 
know that while the Direct Lease program is great, there is 
always, for example, the possibility that after 18 months in 
the program, a landlord might decide to opt out.
    And so, we need a place where we know we will have to house 
individuals for upwards of 5 to 6 years, and something that we 
have built and have Kulina over is a lot easier than then 
trying to find another lease for these particular families.
    So, you know, what is the plans and potential to--as you 
know, it takes a while to build--to continue to build beyond 
the 169 units that will be completed in October, I believe, or 
by October, so we can get a little bit higher in that number 
and provide some stability in terms of housing going forward in 
the future?
    Mr. Fenton. Yes. And we are balancing the build versus the 
resiliency needed. We also do not want to build something that 
becomes the next risk as we build it.
    We are building the 169 units. We are also working with the 
primary homeowner's property to put units on their property and 
working with them right now.
    The next thing we really want to pursue is, rather than 
building group sites, we are actually reaching out to the 
secondary homeowners, which over 70 percent of the homes up 
there are secondary homes. People that own them are not from 
this island. Most of them are from the mainland. We want to see 
what they are going to do with those lots. Maybe we could rent 
those lots from them rather than giving them to the developer, 
and we could start putting units on those lots to re-bring back 
the community.
    So that is a program we are talking to the Mayor about. We 
are about to start doing a massive pull out. There is already 
1,100 households, properties that meet that, those conditions.
    The other thing that we have done is we have actually, in 
the past--and I think we do need to come up with better 
solutions for the Pacific because it is so unique. We have done 
a program with MIT to look at a seed program where we put 
something temporary out that becomes then the permanent piece 
of the permanent house.
    And so, we have worked with MIT and come up with a 
prototype where maybe it is the, you know, the kitchen, the 
bathroom, a room, and maybe the main room, and then from there, 
you could build on to that to make it the permanent solution.
    Technology is now catching up with this, and, you know, 
whether it is 3D printing or different solutions that we can 
start looking at those now, what is agile and can be shipped, 
because everything out here, as you know, has to be shipped by 
sea, and could meet those kind of things.
    So, I think we are in an area now where we need to start 
doing that research and unique capabilities for the Pacific as 
we have done to kind of speed up the mainland.
    Ms. Tokuda. Definitely. I think the more we can build in 
some permanence, understanding that this is a long haul for 
many of our residents, and we want to give them as much 
stability as possible, the better.
    Chair, if I may just ask one quick question.
    You can answer it, yes or no. You and I have talked about 
this, and it was brought up about HUD's interaction. Is there 
anything Congress can do, for example, where we can start to 
integrate FEMA and HUD's involvement in the sense that, for 
example, if FEMA could purchase real property to house 
temporarily victims and survivors, and at that point that they 
no longer need it, turn it over to HUD for more permanent 
housing solutions for the population that they particularly 
serve, it would be an investment of money from the Federal 
Government that would be much better than a one and done kind 
of Direct Lease program.
    An increase inventory of affordable units in a community, 
we definitely need it here. And so, what needs to be done to--
again, as Representative Porter talked about, we need them 
parallel. I would like to see them overlapped so that we can 
have the best use of our dollars and, quite frankly, an 
increase in inventory in our communities that, ultimately, 
everywhere you look across the country, affordable housing is 
something that we all need to see in our backyards.
    Mr. Fenton. I agree with you that we need to integrate 
those authorities better. There is no one solution that fits 
every unique jurisdiction's needs, and we need to have some 
flexibility in authority that allows us to connect those 
authorities better, including funding the CDBG-R right away.
    Ms. Tokuda. Very good. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
    I will go to my second round.
    Colonel, you are now faced with a second year. What lies 
ahead for you and the Corps?
    Col. Swenson. So, thank you for the question.
    We have 1 year under our belt. We have just completed all--
removed all the debris from residential lots in Lahaina town 
and in Kula, and we have about 112 lots or so left that we have 
to just finish the paperwork on and get them turned back over 
to the counties so that those residents can rebuild.
    We are about 60 percent complete with commercial debris 
removal. That has been a bit more--it started a little later, 
and it has been a complex mission, one that we do not do 
frequently in all these disasters. So, we are going to spend 
time working on that.
    And as Mr. Fenton mentioned, we are continuing to support 
FEMA's initiatives to help with housing, whether that is 
through a lease that the FEMA lease is in, we put an APTHU. It 
is essentially a containerized housing unit on top of it. We 
are also going to finish building out our Kilohana site to get 
those 169 units ready for residents, for fire survivors to move 
into.
    Mr. Sessions. Good.
    Administrator Peterson, you, too, I would really ask the 
same question. Your valuable insight has been very useful. Do 
you need to be there for recovery? Tell me what your next year, 
the second year, looks like for the EPA.
    Ms. Peterson. Sure. Thank you for that question.
    We are in the process of hiring two staff to be out here 
permanently so that we can continue to assist in the water and 
sustainability missions because those are really where we see 
EPA being able to help resources and link that to the needs 
that we see as they arise.
    I met with the Mayor yesterday to look at are there other 
Wahikuli Terrace-type neighborhoods out there that might need 
additional assistance that we are just not aware of yet. So 
that is where we see our future.
    Mr. Sessions. Great. Thank you very much.
    I would yield now to the distinguished gentleman, my 
friend, Ed Case, for his follow-up. The gentleman is 
recognized.
    Mr. Case. Thank you again, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Fenton, this is more of a comment than a question, but 
I just want to make sure that everybody heard your general 
comments on the phasing of assistance as you go through on a 
long-term basis. Because I will tell you that in the many 
briefings that I have been in with you and the collective 
Federal, state, and local team, what has been most impressive 
is where you line things up in just a chart, and you just go 
right across over a long-term lay where you know what is 
happening here, what has to happen, and when the next tranche 
of Federal funding needs to be ready.
    And I am completely agreeing with you, again, on the 
Community Development Block Grant Disaster Relief, which is the 
next big tranche out there. So, I just want to commend you for 
that, and I think it is something that if you are--I assume you 
are doing this throughout the country every time you have a 
disaster, but I think that was done well.
    I think that--a question for either Ms. Peterson or Colonel 
Swenson. You know, just going back to debris removal, your 
testimony was and I think--I think your testimony was that 
there's 98 percent removal now of the residential. Is that 98 
percent residential lots that have authorized you for removal 
or is that the universe of all residential lots?
    Col. Swenson. Thank you for that question.
    So, we cleared this week 1,300--our 1,390th residential 
lot. Now, a residential lot, it is not like zoning. So, it is 
not if it is zoned commercial, it is commercial debris. If it 
is zoned residential, it is residential. We categorize 
residential and commercial debris removal based on the type of 
debris.
    So, a 180-unit apartment complex that had beds and linens 
and sheets and personal effects would be considered residential 
debris. So, when I say 1,390 units, that could be one single 
family home. It could be one single family home with an ohana 
home, or it can be 180 units.
    Mr. Case. OK. Here is the reason for my question. Because 
if you go back 6 to 8 months when the residential debris 
removal program was first instituted, we were getting a 10 
percent or so response in terms of authorization at the very, 
very beginning from homeowners. And either they did not know 
that the program was there, or they did not trust it, or, as I 
recall, there was a liability release provision that scared 
some homeowners.
    And so, what I am asking is, is the universe of people 
eligible for the program, is that everybody so that you 
actually surmounted that obstacle with the very, you know, 
commendable, tailored local approach? Or do we still have a lot 
of homeowners out there that just have not opted into debris 
removal at all? And if so, why?
    Col. Swenson. Sir, I think you can count everyone who has 
opted out on one hand or less. We have gotten almost every 
single commercial and residential property owner to opt in to 
our program, and we did it because we demonstrated success 
because we worked with the elders in the community who have 
the--who are the respected members who share their knowledge 
with the rest of the community. We did it because we hired 
local labor who went out and showed residents that we are not 
here--this is not the Federal Government here to somehow take 
your land. This is people that are from the community doing 
this clearance for you and then we give it back. You know, we 
relinquish that----
    Mr. Case. OK. Well, that is double commendations, because 
it was not looking so good 6 to 8 months ago. And so, you 
found--and I think that is probably a positive lesson learned 
from this experience that can be applied somewhere else in the 
country.
    A final comment, Chair, and this is an area that the 
Subcommittee may want to follow up on, but we have talked about 
administrative flexibility with all four of our testifiers 
here, and adjusting through administrative flexibility to the 
actual needs of the local community I think has been really 
positive in all of your situations. But there is a limit to 
administrative flexibility. Essentially, sooner or later you 
run out of flexibility, and the law itself prevents you from 
going any further.
    And my question would be, not for here but for later on in 
a more deliberate way is, OK, how do we change the law? Like, 
what were the limitations that really you just wish, if you 
were having a full disaster response here, that you had the 
obstacles presented by the law where we can actually amend 
them?
    I think one example, which we have not talked about, was 
the ineligibility of compact-free association residents for key 
Federal programs, which we solved, but that was a limitation in 
the law. We could not do anything about it. The Red Cross came 
in and picked up that burden. That was a great cost share--I 
mean, not cost share but responsibility sharing. So, commending 
you for that.
    But I think this is an important thing to ask is, you know, 
where can the laws be changed to accommodate some of the 
challenges that we saw?
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time. Thank you 
very much.
    I want to thank our first panel. I believe you have 
provided substance that not only enumerated your value add from 
you and your organizations, but you, to the highest of ability, 
presented yourself to where the people of this beautiful island 
felt like that you came, did the right thing, and offered an 
opportunity that really we, as Americans, would like and 
provided it. And I want to thank each of you for that.
    Before I offer an adjournment to you, for the people who 
were earlier advised that we would take their comments, I would 
like to ask that any sheets of paper, if anybody has a comment, 
would be placed up on that table at the end of the table, and 
we will gather those. And I really express my thanks to each of 
you.
    Pursuant to the previous order, the Chair declares the 
Committee in recess for 10 minutes, subject to the call of the 
Chair, where we will make the changes necessary to not only 
excuse the first panel that is now excused but to call up the 
second panel.
    And the Committee now stands in recess for 10 minutes.
    [Recess.]
    Mr. Sessions. The Committee will come to order.
    I want to thank each of our witnesses who are here and 
prepared to give testimony. I would also like to thank those of 
you who are gathered together to hear this as the audience. And 
I want to commend you and let each of you know, in case you are 
just now walking in, that there are sheets of paper that are 
provided for you to provide us feedback also, and that we would 
appreciate and respect your feedback on those sheets of paper.
    We will have--J.D., where are you? I do not--where is he? 
OK. Sheets of paper--J.D. is not here. He was there a minute 
ago. The sheets of paper are where?
    Staff. On this blue table.
    Mr. Sessions. On this blue table. If anyone would wish for 
us to receive your feedback, that is what we are here to do 
also.
    I am now pleased to introduce our second panel, including 
the young Mayor. They represent state and local witnesses who 
have been an equal part of not only serving the people of this 
island, but really the people of the United States of America.
    My comments earlier, I would wish to make now, and that is, 
Mr. Mayor, you lived through this. We watched it but you lived 
through it, and the people of this island suffered, and it was 
personal, and it was a different experience for them.
    But the people of the United States also watched how the 
people of this island handled this and the devastation that 
took place, and we offered our--not only our prayers but also 
those of resiliency and braveness that were met by each of you.
    And so, if you have just walked into this, please know that 
we have tried to respectfully approach this issue with my 
colleagues who are--one who is from California and two are from 
the islands here, and that we believe what we want to do is 
express to you that we have come to hear from the witnesses 
that we have had. First, the Federal witnesses and now the 
state witnesses. And we believe these witnesses represent the 
resiliency of this island, not just the hopes and dreams, not 
just the culture, but the future.
    And so, I would like to express, on behalf of my colleagues 
of the U.S. Congress, as well as those colleagues that I have 
that serve on government reform and oversight. My name is Pete 
Sessions, and I serve as Chairman of the Government Operations 
and Federal Workforce, which is a Subcommittee that is 
authorized, literally, within and by the Constitution of the 
United States.
    We do not come and tell people how to do--government 
agencies how to run their business. We expect that the law and 
those parameters do that, but we do follow up, and we receive 
oversight instructions, and we follow up because we care about 
things that the government becomes engaged in.
    Last, we made a decision some 6 or 8 months ago that we 
would delay coming to the island with the knowledge that 6 
months ago much of the work was still underway, that the work 
would not be put on the side for us to come and do this but, 
rather, it would continue.
    So, Mr. Mayor, as I told you and I think that you agreed, 
we are not late. We think we are on time, and I think you 
agreed with that. But today is that day, and today is that day 
where community leaders will be able to express their feedback 
of what lies ahead and what needs to be done.
    So, I would open up--do you wish to make an opening 
statement? The gentlewoman is recognized--or Ed, if you do. 
Katie is not here, so we will come to you.
    Ms. Tokuda. No, Mr. Chair, but just to thank. You have here 
leaders of our community that represent literally thousands of 
other individuals throughout Lahaina, Maui, and our state that 
absolutely stepped up, many of them survivors themselves, but 
have done so much to support our community.
    And so, I am very humbled and honored and grateful to be a 
part of this community as the Representative but really very 
blessed that we have these leaders here today. So, thank you 
again for being here and bringing this hearing to Lahaina where 
it really should always be, the discussion right here, coming 
to the people. So, mahalo.
    Mr. Sessions. Thank you.
    My colleague from the Committee, the distinguished 
gentlewoman from California, do you choose to make an opening 
statement?
    Ms. Porter. I do not.
    Mr. Sessions. Do not.
    Mr. Case, do you choose to say anything?
    Mr. Case. Ms. Tokuda spoke for me, so there you go.
    Mr. Sessions. Great. Thank you very much.
    Well, we are delighted. We are going to proceed then. I am 
pleased to introduce our witnesses: Major General Kenneth Hara. 
His duties as adjutant general for the state of Hawaii began on 
December 6, 2019.
    General, thank you for being here. We appreciate this.
    Our young Mayor, Richard Bissen, the Mayor of the city of 
Maui since January 2023. Mr. Mayor, thank you for not just your 
friendship but for your resiliency to be able to accept us 
coming here to ask questions and to hear from you and for what 
lies ahead. Thank you, sir.
    We next have Ms. Lauren Nahme--and when I say it wrong, you 
are entitled to correct me because I speak Texan--Senior Vice 
President of the Hawaii Community Foundation, Maui Recovery 
Office. Thank you for being here.
    And I apologize for accusing you of being the Mayor's wife. 
His wife made sure, she said to the Mayor ``get that--tell that 
Texan to get it right.'' So, Lauren, thank you very much.
    Next, we have Sne Patel, Board President of Lahaina Town 
Action Committee. And we appreciate you being here, sir. Thank 
you very much, Mr. Patel.
    And last, we have Mr. Keeaumoku Kapu. I will let you now 
pronounce your name properly, sir.
    Mr. Kapu. Keeaumoku Kapu.
    Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. Serves as president and 
CEO of the local organization and is focused on the importance 
of not just heritage, but the culture that comes with it and I 
want to thank our panel very much.
    We are now going to have you rise. And each you would raise 
your hand, your right hand and wish this is for you to be 
sworn.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), we are now going to ask 
you do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you 
are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but 
the truth so help you God?
    [Response].
    Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. Please let the record 
reflect that all witnesses answered in the affirmative.
    You may now take your seat. Those of you who got here early 
recognize what we are going to do here, we are going to move 
through what might be a 5-minute opportunity for you to provide 
this Committee with your feedback, your testimony, that while 
we have read, it is important for you to give. I will also tell 
you, Mr. Patel, perhaps most important to you, you do not have 
to stick within the 5 minutes, but I would ask that you make 
your points and then conclude your remarks with the knowledge 
that we will come back and ask those questions.
    We will now move directly to our first witness. General, 
you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL KENNETH HARA
                       ADJUTANT GENERAL OF HAWAII

    General Hara. Chair Sessions, Ranking Member Porter, 
members of the Hawaii delegation, good afternoon and aloha. I 
am Major General Kenneth Hara, the Adjutant General for the 
state of Hawaii Department of Defense and also the overall 
State Incident Commander for the Maui wildfires response.
    In the aftermath of the August 8 Maui wildfires, Federal, 
state, county and private and local organizations rapidly 
mobilized and responded to providing lifesaving, life 
sustaining and remains recovery operations. These entities 
worked together to quickly provide sheltering solutions to the 
survivors of the Maui wildfires. The Federal response, in 
particular, was very organized and grew rapidly over the course 
of the recovery operations.
    For example, once private property and commercial zones 
were cleared, the Environmental Protection Agency commenced 
household hazardous material removal, which allowed the 
residents and loved ones to reenter their properties and safely 
retrieve valuables, including items of sentimental value.
    This immense Federal response enabled the county and state 
to rapidly transition to long-term recovery operations. 
Throughout the recovery and response period, state, Federal 
resources also worked hard to support the county of Maui and 
adhere to the guidance and vision of Maui community leaders. 
Culture considerations, historic preservation and environmental 
planning have all been important priorities during the Maui 
wildfire response process and our Federal partners have been 
responsive to that emphasis throughout. In short, coordinated 
response to the Maui wildfires has been remarkable at all 
levels.
    My testimony will focus on the cooperation and 
accomplishments with respect to interagency coordination, 
interim and long-term housing, debris removal and cost share 
Federal reimbursement.
    In support of the recovery efforts, the Federal Government 
has provided a wide range of resources, primarily via FEMA, the 
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Department of Housing and Urban 
Development, Small Business Administration, Department of the 
Interior, Economic Development Administration, and the 
Department of Health and Human Services.
    For example, in the immediate aftermath of the wildfires 
state of Hawaii and FEMA Region 9 established a joint recovery 
coordination group led by Luke Meyers, the Hawaii State Federal 
Disaster Recovery Coordinator and Alana Kuhn, the Federal 
Disaster Coordinator. The scope, scale and complexity of the 
fire's aftermath required a whole of community recovery 
approach organized into six recovery support functions, 
community planning and capacity building, economic 
infrastructure systems, health and social services, natural and 
culture resources, and housing.
    The joint team effectively coordinated operational resource 
and policy issues. Longer term recovery efforts have led the 
Hawaii office of Recovery and Resiliency, what would be called 
ORR, which leads the state coordinated efforts for Federal, 
state, county, private partners. Last fall, the ORR worked 
closely with Federal disaster recovery coordinators and the 
interagency recovery coordination group, which have coordinated 
Federal recovery efforts.
    Interagency coordination has also been key to developing 
sheltering and housing solutions. Immediately following the 
wildfires, the County of Maui provided congregate shelters for 
displaced individuals. Meanwhile Governor Green directed to get 
these individuals out of the congregate shelters and the 
survivors into non-congregate shelters as soon as possible. In 
support of that goal, Hawaii contracted the American Red Cross 
to manage the state's Non-Congregate Sheltering program.
    For the complex debris removal, the state of Hawaii 
contracted the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, or USACE, as a 
prime contractor for the Maui's complex debris removal project. 
USACE'S planning and communication with all stakeholders has 
been extremely inclusive and effective. In addition to 
subcontracting local companies, the USACE team contracted 
trusted culture advisors and culture monitors for the project. 
They maintained a clear communication by holding weekly 
community recovery meetings that ensured transparency and 
responsiveness to local concerns.
    In conclusion, the overall response for the Maui wildfires 
has been nothing short of extraordinary and we are immensely 
grateful to the Federal partners who have come alongside us in 
this effort. We look forward to continuing to work together as 
we recover and rebuild Maui.
    Once again, the state of Hawaii thanks the Subcommittee for 
your attention in that matter. And we look forward to further 
discussion and collaboration. Thank you.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time. Thank you 
very much.
    Mr. Mayor, please know that my colleagues that are here and 
gathered today, as well as the wishes from the U.S. Congress, 
in particular the Committee that I represent, Government Reform 
and Oversight, wishes to tell you that we have come out here 
for the right reasons and that is to not only tell you that we 
care about you, but also to listen. And we are delighted with 
your professional nature and your viewpoint of this meeting.
    So, the gentleman is now recognized for 5 minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF RICHARD BISSEN
                                 MAYOR
                              MAUI COUNTY

    Mayor Bissen. Aloha mai kakou, Chairman Sessions and 
Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to 
speak with you today. While this hearing focuses on response 
efforts in Lahaina, we were also faced with multiple fires in 
Kula, Olinda, and Pulehu on August 8, 2023. We continue to 
mourn the tragic loss of 102 of our loved ones and the two that 
are still unaccounted for.
    In one night, 12,000 of our people were displaced, 2,200 
homes and commercial buildings were destroyed and numerous 
historical sites were lost, leaving debris scattered over more 
than 5 square miles. Despite this devastating loss, we moved 
forward acutely focused on restoring homes, schools, 
communities, centers, businesses, and natural habitat.
    Families remain in temporary housing and face mounting 
costs from mortgage payments that will be owed once forbearance 
expires. Survivors struggle with financial instability, 
childcare and healthcare needs, and increasing mental health 
concerns.
    Our businesses and industries have endured severe economic 
loss. We are sincerely appreciative of the work of our Federal 
partners. It is my hope that our testimony today will encourage 
continued support for Maui and ensure that survivors of the 
next investable disaster will benefit from our experience.
    I am grateful for the response and leadership of FEMA 
Region 9 for their consistent and continued presence throughout 
this disaster. Most notable is how FEMA has adapted to our 
unique cultural and island community needs, including the 
effective use of cultural monitors and the flexibility to 
respond to emerging concerns.
    Due to our isolated location, the unique nature of our 
housing market, and our high percentage of renters, finding 
adequate housing near work schools and community posed a 
distinct challenge. Consequently, survivors dealt with the 
uncertainty and challenge of moving multiple times while in non 
non-congregate housing, endured a burdensome process of 
complicated applications and experienced confusion navigating 
FEMA eligibility requirements, all while suffering through 
post-disaster trauma.
    Although FEMA designed to offer temporary housing solutions 
for survivors, many of these options were impractical for an 
island community already grappling with a severe housing 
crisis. Additionally, FEMA's rental assistance program posed 
unintended consequences negatively impacting our rental housing 
market island-wide, causing further distress for other Maui 
residents who were displaced unintentionally.
    Permanent housing options earlier in the response would 
have been ideal. Expanding FEMA's permanent housing 
construction program to states outside the Continental U.S. 
could provide a viable approach to addressing long-term housing 
solutions. Also integrating HUD early into the recovery process 
would also expedite permanent housing options.
    I also want to recognize the SBA for the approval of $405 
million in low-interest disaster loans which provided financial 
assistance to help Maui begin to rebuild. However, the 
perception that SBA funds were intended solely for businesses 
rather than individuals suggests that clearer messaging could 
help reduce misconceptions and delays in accessing critical 
funds.
    Next, I want to acknowledge the support of the EPA which 
led our unique hazardous household waste disposal operations, 
including the collection and disposal of lithium-ion batteries 
from electric vehicles and solar panels. Also, EPA's water 
emergency team worked with county departments to expedite the 
restoration of our water systems and offered free inspections 
to help residents adhere to cesspool compliance issues.
    Last, I would like to thank USACE for their crucial and 
expedited role in debris removal for residential and commercial 
properties and restoring infrastructure so our residents can 
begin to rebuild. I also applaud the remarkable achievement in 
constructing King Kamehameha III Elementary School's temporary 
campus in just 95 days, creating a learning environment for 350 
students.
    Continued financial and programmatic support from our state 
and Federal partners is crucial to the preservation and 
livelihood of our people and the success of this recovery. A 
special mahalo to our Hawaii congressional delegation, Governor 
Green, Lieutenant Governor Luke, and our state partners, our 
county workforce, including the 76 who lost their own homes. 
And our local community partners for their unwavering support 
through this most difficult time.
    Most importantly, I want to recognize the incredible 
strength of our people, many who have endured inconceivable 
suffering but continue to push forward with incredible grit, 
sacrifice, and immeasurable courage. And while we can rebuild 
structures, if we do not return Lahaina to the very people who 
represent the spirit and the soul of our community, if we do 
not recognize the faces of our friends and our family as we 
repopulate then we will have lost this battle for our people. 
And even one more family lost is one too many. Mahalo.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Mayor, we acknowledge and respect not 
only the effort that you and others who will speak today, but 
with great respect I will recognize and do, as well as my 
colleagues, that each of you have a task today and that is to 
represent people.
    Your words are sincere, your accomplishments can and should 
be noted, but we are here also to look to the future about how 
we will continue to work with you based upon the past that we 
think is important.
    So, for each of you who now follow the Mayor, please know 
this that we do recognize the heartfelt emotion that comes with 
this. And you will be given that time to express that and we 
respect it. Sir, thank you very much.
    We now move to our next witness, Lauren Nahme. The 
gentlewoman is recognized for 5 minutes.

                       STATEMENT OF LAUREN NAHME
              SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, MAUI RECOVERY EFFORT
                      HAWAII COMMUNITY FOUNDATION

    Ms. Nahme. Aloha, Chairman Sessions and your distinguished 
Members of your Subcommittee. On behalf of the Hawaii Community 
Foundation, I would like to acknowledge and mahalo the 
leadership of our country, the state of Hawaii, Maui County, 
the not for-profit business and global donor community for 
their support and collaboration through this very intense, 
tragic, complex disaster.
    I would like to especially acknowledge the leadership of 
Governor Josh Green and Mayor Richard Bissen and all of their 
staff for working nonstop to lead emergency and recovery effort 
since the very beginning the while keeping the rest of the 
county and state operating.
    I would also like to mahalo our Senators Hirono and Schatz, 
and U.S. Representatives Tokuda and Case for their continuous 
advocacy for Hawaii and keeping Maui's recovery top of mind for 
Congress. My original testimony submitted has a lot of 
background and supporting information and I will just highlight 
a few points.
    Our work and disaster support includes not only strategic 
grant-making through the Maui Strong Fund, but also sharing 
information, convening, coordinating, and collaborating with a 
range of partners to optimize responsiveness to needs while 
leveraging philanthropic dollars to fill gaps and minimize 
overlaps with government resources. So, what you do matters to 
us.
    To date, we have received $200 million in contributions, 
including $5.8 million in interest earnings that we have 
contributed back into the fund. We have not charged an 
administrative fee on the contribution, so the entire sum will 
go to Maui's recovery.
    So far, we have awarded over 250 grants for $112 million, 
with $12 million more sitting in the pipeline for approval. We 
have raised funds independent of the Maui Strong Fund to 
support the operations and administration of these funds.
    Because this recovery will be long and with a multibillion-
dollar price tag, a core part of our strategic focus is to do 
our very best to understand prioritized needs, compliment and 
leverage public resources rather than duplicate, keep our eye 
out for the vulnerable, and be as data informed as possible.
    Accordingly, we made an early commitment to partner with a 
few organizations and several strategic grants that would focus 
in on those who may fall through the cracks of public disaster 
resources and post-process which as outlined in my testimony 
original testimony. What has been clear and consistent 
throughout our formal and informal data gathering via our 
partners, grantees and survivors is that uncertainty 
surrounding current and future resources and timetables is a 
significant factor impacting the ongoing and mental health, 
wellbeing, and recovery of our community.
    Uncertainty related to housing, which we have heard so much 
about, employment, and reconnection with neighbors and friends 
hinges largely on federally provided public resources and 
planning and execution efforts of the state and county. To 
start, while non-congregate shelters were a necessary and 
standard part of response to disasters of this kind that 
displace people from homes, the lack of certainty of placement, 
length of stay, and possibility of movement was repeatedly 
expressed as unsettling and we also know very costly.
    In response, HCF collaborated with FEMA, the state, colony 
and other philanthropic organizations to develop time-bound 
plan and committed very significant resources for housing for 
at least 18 months for 3,000 households providing the certainty 
that families desperately sought.
    While the interim housing plan was a great demonstration 
for all of us working together but still not perfect, 
challenges that still exist and need immediate attention 
include the unaffordable rents that have increased in ranges of 
50 to 200 percent or pre-disaster levels creating a sub-crisis 
of its own as local residents are displaced when leases are 
either not renewed or renewed with exorbitant increases. This 
is another group of disaster effected residents who represent 
our friends, families, and critical contributors to our 
community and workforce, and many have either left or 
contemplated leaving.
    Additionally, there are very significant concerns regarding 
the impending resource cliffs when FEMA and other significant 
resources sunset as early as February 2025 without clear 
alternative paths and options for families.
    Improved forecasting and delivery of needs and affordable 
housing, living wage jobs, healthcare and other family 
resources are required and must be solidified with a sense of 
urgency to reduce and eliminate longstanding uncertainty for 
families.
    A clear win to celebrate as we have heard about, the United 
States Army Corps of Engineers has made significant progress 
ahead of schedule with debris cleared from residential 
properties and potable water restored to all of Lahaina, thanks 
to the EPA. It is even more crucial right now for homeowners to 
know what resources are available to rebuild and when. 
Additionally, certainty and urgent authorization of CDBG-DR 
funding is crucial to continue this very positive momentum, to 
accelerate recovery, and reduce financial and mental health 
hardships for survivors. It is not clear what is holding this 
up.
    In closing, while our commentary has been focused on the 
recovery, we hope and believe that Maui can be a model not just 
for how a people and a place will prepare and respond to a 
disaster, but to ultimately rethink the economic and wellbeing 
construct for our broader Hawaii and other island communities.
    Mahalo for this opportunity to participate and share what 
we are doing, what we have learned, and what we look forward 
to. We also deeply appreciate your demonstration of care and 
commitment by being here in person to listen, inquire, 
understand, and pursue informed action. We are ready to 
continue our participation and coordination with all parties to 
fully support the successful recovery and ultimate resilience 
of our friends and families on Maui.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Kapu, thank you for being here today. You have been 
most respectful, I think, in your presentation as I have 
watched you these past several hours. We are delighted that you 
are here and the gentleman is now recognized for 5 minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF KEEAUMOKU KAPU
                            PRESIDENT & CEO
                            NA AIKANE O MAUI

    Mr. Kapu. Greetings to all Committee and Subcommittee 
Representatives in assessing the Federal Government's response 
to 2023 Maui wildfire. Aloha. My name is Keeaumoku Kapu of 
Lahaina Ko Hawaii Pae Aina. And my family are recognized lineal 
descendants to two valleys, Kahoma as well as Kaua'ula. And we 
live on land awarded to our families through the existing 
constitutional kingdom in the seat of government once situated 
here in Lahaina in 1848 until today.
    I am the youngest of seven children of my father, Paul 
Kekai Kapu, who served in the United States Marine Corps from 
1950 to 1960 and my mother, Pualoke Ha'o from Mo ko kai od day.
    Our organization, Na Aikane o Maui, was formed and founded 
back in 2011 as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization to help our 
general community as a resource hub to our in-depth history of 
Lahaina and to assist in traditional protocols within the 
sensitivity of our customs, protocols, and beliefs.
    I have sat on many boards and commissions such as the Maui 
County Cultural Resources and Commission in 2001 to 2004 and 
reappointed to the Commission as of 2023 to 2023. I also served 
on the Maui Lana' Burial Council through the State Historic 
Preservation Division from 2004 and the Chairman from 2008 to 
2012. Served on the Native Hawaiian Historic Preservation 
Council in advisory to the Board of Trustees of the Office of 
Hawaiian Affairs from 2004 to 2014. I also served on the West 
Pacific Regional Fisheries Council--it is a Federal management 
agency in--2007 to 2014.
    I stand before you as a testament to a place that was 
almost erased to total commercial and industrialization. King 
Kamehameha III school no longer here today. The royal compound 
be a reminder of how our paradise disappeared. Now that we are 
dealing directly with scattered remains throughout the entire 
campus grounds of the royal compound known to many as the 
capital of the Kingdom of Hawaii, where a lot of our monarchial 
foundations once stood.
    Lahaina is known as the Venice of the Pacific, hence the 
name known by our elders, Malu'ulu o Lele, the breadfruit 
grottos of Lele.
    The Federal Government's response had been great throughout 
the recovery process and beyond. Some hiccups when it comes to 
the protection of historic properties, especially when dealing 
with burials and understanding more of the roles of Hawaii 
burials laws through the Hawaii revised statues and 
administrative rules could need a lot of more clearing up and 
understanding on both the Federal and state levels of 
governance. When it comes to the rights of the general public's 
need to know, should be a directive from the State Historic 
Preservation Division and the Maui Lanai Island Burial Council.
    We Na'Aikane o Maui extend our gratitude to the Federal 
Government for all assistance in an expeditious way by 
prioritizing the needs of our community's health, safety, 
livelihood for the benefit of our future generations and 
tomorrow.
    In closing, I would just like to add, and as a Kupono in 
the back reminded to me, that it is very complex that we live 
that we have also got to remember we are under the guides of Ke 
Akua up above that we also need to honor him, especially during 
these times of need.
    So, in closing, I would just like to add Na keakua e 
ho'opomaika'l a'e malama is kakou, may the Lord continuously 
bless each and every one of us always. Mahalo. Thank you.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Kapu, thank you very much.
    I will tell you I think we pray to the same God, and we 
also have significant impact from Mother Nature. And whether 
you live in Waco, Texas as I do or whether you live on these 
islands, you could come into contact with both. Your faith and 
resiliency was expressed today. I appreciate you taking time to 
be with us. I would like to ask that you stick around for a few 
minutes more. But I think the power of your testimony is 
greatly appreciated. The gentleman now yields back his time.
    Mr. Patel, we are delighted that you are here. The 
gentlemen is recognized for 5 minutes.

                         STATEMENT OF SNE PATEL
                     LAHAINA TOWN ACTION COMMITTEE

    Mr. Patel. Aloha esteemed Members. My name is Sne Patel, 
and I stand before you today as the President of the Lahaina 
Town Action Committee. Before I share my experiences from this 
unprecedented event, I wanted to first just thank you all for 
being here in this physical space and coming to us rather than 
all of us coming to D.C., so really want to thank you for that 
and commend you.
    So, greater resilience is what we seek in a world that 
continues to provide challenges. And I believe that by working 
together we can share our collective wisdom, just as the 
ancestors of these lands once did. We can do better for 
ourselves and for generations to come. As I learned from 
Keeaumoku Kapu here, the future is in the past. We have got ask 
ourselves, right, what kind of future are we leaving for our 
kids, for keiki? Lahaina is not just a place, it is a cherished 
sacred part of Hawaii's identity. And as we move forward, we 
are committed here to assuring that it shines brightly again, 
not just for today, tomorrow, but for future generations.
    As I mentioned, I am the current President for Lahaina Town 
Action Committee. The organization was founded nearly 40 years 
ago by business leaders in Lahaina and the LAC has always 
strived to strike that balance between the economic vitality of 
Lahaina as well as well as the cultural and the historic.
    So August 8, that was a big event. I do not come here just 
as an individual represent businesses but someone that has 
lived here 20 plus years in west Maui, married father of three, 
and someone who has lost property as well. I have experienced 
the profound impacts of a disaster on both a personal and 
professional. However, nothing compares to the heartbreak of 
the families who lost loved ones that day. So, take a moment to 
just honor them, those 102 lives.
    In the immediate aftermath of the wildfire, the businesses 
that remained standing were among the first to step up. There 
was no division or distinctions, just a unified effort to 
shelter, feed, and support those who had lost everything. 
Witnessing this firsthand, even under the heavy weight of the 
fire's aftermath, was a testament to our strength, the strength 
of our community.
    For weeks we operated on a mutual foundation of mutual aid, 
doing whatever we could to support each other in this time of 
need. However, as the days turned to weeks, it became evident 
that our efforts, though valiant, were not sustainable without 
more structured support.
    And so, I thank all the Federal agencies that came, all the 
state agencies, everybody. Mahalo them because tremendous 
effort.
    The destruction of the businesses on Front Street and other 
parts of Lahaina represent a monumental and economic loss. But 
this is not just about individual businesses, but the economic 
and cultural heart of west Maui. We know tourism, alone, drove 
70 percent of the economy and many of the small businesses 
along Lahaina's historic Front Street were not only integral to 
the part of the local heritage, but also key to the daily 
livelihood of thousands.
    Losing these businesses has meant losing a significant 
portion of our community's income, jobs, and security. For 
generations, Lahaina was not just a historic town, it was a hub 
of commerce, culture, education, and connection. There are 
restaurants, art galleries, museums, historic sites, and marine 
businesses. They all blended together to provide livelihoods 
for many and attracted visitors from all over the world. The 
destruction of the town is not just a financial blow, it 
represents a deep wound to the identity of west Maui.
    You can still feel the shock waves that are already felt 
throughout this community. However, my greatest fear is that 
the tsunami yet to come if we do not act fast with the right 
level of support, it is going to be too late.
    The wildfires, you know, the Mayor said destroyed 2,200 
structures including around 800 businesses which collectively 
generated approximately $2.7 million in daily revenue. Tourism 
declined from 7,000 daily to 2,000 that lead to an estimated 
loss of about $11 million per day in visitor expenditures. 
Overall, economic losses, including property damage, in 
businesses to business interruptions are estimated between 4 to 
6 billion, this is from UHERO and DEBT.
    Business owners, many of whom were under insured, are 
facing an uncertain future. Workers who depend on those jobs 
are now out of work. And we are losing people each day to the 
mainland. Given the level of devastation and the need to update 
much of the infrastructure it may be years before businesses 
can even think about rebuilding and reopening. For many the 
question is not just how they will reopen, but whether they can 
afford to at all. Even those that are back in operation are 
struggling and those looking to restart are finding that lease 
rents have increased exponentially with the demand for 
commercial space making it harder for them to get back on their 
feet.
    By the end of the first month following the fire, the 
Lahaina Town Action Committee began receiving calls from many 
of the businesses seeking answers, guidance, and a path. And in 
response, we facilitated a critical meeting on September 5, 
2023, with the support from State Senator Lynn Decoite and both 
the Maui Chamber of Commerce, Hawaii Chamber of Commerce. The 
meeting was attended by 100 businesses and key government 
officials, including the Mayor, the Governor, members of the 
state, various state agencies, department heads, Congresswoman 
Jill Tokuda, thank you.
    During the meeting, several immediate needs were 
identified, highlighting both the challenges faced and the 
opportunities for improvement and recovery efforts, 
specifically for small businesses.
    I know we are short on time. I have a lot of here notes 
from that meeting I could share. So, I have a lot of SBA 
comments that I can share. And I know, out of respect for time, 
I will conclude. So, I thank you for your time. I look forward 
to working with all of you to find workable solutions that 
allow our businesses and the community to recover and thrive 
once again. It is going to take all of us. We all need to be in 
a boat navigating together, together.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time.
    It does us good on this side of this dais to know that each 
of you have placed your hand on the pulse of emotion because 
you were a part of living through this. You are a part of day-
to-day work that went on. You are a part of the creation of how 
you sustain people. There has been talk about God and the 
beauty of this island--these islands and the need to make sure 
that as we move forward we do this together.
    I would hope that each of you understand that we respect 
you and we do understand the importance of the emotion that is 
related, not just to your historical background or the legacy 
that you respect so much, but also to that moving forward. So, 
I hope that what we do today on this side of the dais is 
respectful back for you.
    And I have every reason to believe that it will be. But I 
want to personally thank you and the people who sit behind you. 
We did not think we would come out here and hold a normal 
hearing just where we would ask questions and then take the 
information and leave. We recognize this is a longer process. 
So, with great respect as the Chairman of this Subcommittee, I 
want to thank each of you.
    With that, we will now move to the distinguished 
gentlewoman from California for her 5 minutes. The gentlewoman 
is recognized.
    Ms. Porter. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mayor Bissen, I wanted to ask about to return to housing, 
which is a big part of your testimony and something we talked 
about earlier. The truth is we do not have enough affordable 
housing anywhere in the Nation at this point. That is true in 
my home state of California. It is increasingly true even in 
states that have historically have lower housing, like Mr. 
Sessions' state of Texas. But for a long time, Hawaii has been 
the most expensive state in the Nation to buy a home. What is 
about the median typical home price here on the island?
    Mayor Bissen. One-point-two million dollars.
    Ms. Porter. OK. And what is about the typical median 
income, if you know?
    Mayor Bissen. Well, I know it would take for someone to 
afford a home today, you would have to earn $200,000 a year to 
afford buying a house now. 5 years ago, 10 years ago, it would 
have been $76,000 to afford a home here. So that is----
    Ms. Porter. A huge change.
    Mayor Bissen. Yes, yes.
    Ms. Porter. So, I think it is just not realistic to expect 
people to buy a $1.2--or let us even say they get something 
smaller, a $1 million dollar home, off a median wage, which 
right now in Maui, the island as a whole, so that is about 
$88,000 a year. It was too expensive to live here before the 
fire. So, here is the point I want to make and I want to ask 
for panelists to respond. You cannot expect the market--Mr. 
Fenton, I am kind of talking to you here too--you cannot expect 
the market to fix something after a natural disaster when it 
was--the market was already deeply dysfunctional beforehand.
    So, in other words, where you already had an affordable 
housing crisis before the fire and what the fire has done is 
deepen and worsen that problem, but it has also created a 
spotlight on it and drawn attention to it. And just to 
highlight this point, from 2018 to 2023, in that 5 years in 
which housing prices increased, do you know how many net 
housing units were added on Maui?
    Mayor Bissen. I do not have the exact number, but it was a 
very small number.
    Ms. Porter. According to our research, Maui actually lost 
175 units. So, I think what I would like to ask each of you to 
think about is how do we improve this? We cannot just rely on 
the market, because the market was not getting it done before. 
It is not going to suddenly get it done now. And some of the 
Federal interventions, in some ways, made the market worse, 
more difficult.
    Some of them I think will help and make it better, but we 
just have a broken market. Right now, what share of residential 
zoned--what share of the island that is zoned for residential 
property is zoned for multifamily housing, do you know?
    Mayor Bissen. I do not know the percentage, no.
    Ms. Porter. According to our research, a little over 18 
percent. So, that is higher by the way than the rest of Hawaii, 
which is around 7.5 percent. So, I think we are going to need 
some flexibility about what types of homes we build, what kinds 
of materials we use to build homes, what those homes look like. 
And we have to do that in a way that respects the heritage, the 
preferences, the cultural significance.
    So, there is no one-size-fits-all answer here, but I guess 
I would just say--the question I would like to hear you sort of 
talk about and I will start with you, Mayor, is what do we need 
to change to create a better market for affordable housing in 
Maui? I mean, because if we do not answer that, we are not 
going to figure out in Lahaina where we have a fire on top of 
that.
    Mayor Bissen. Yes. I think the first answer I would offer 
you is infrastructure, including water. Water is probably the 
greatest barrier, at least for the west side. And I know Mr. 
Kapu can speak to this having lived through this for the time 
he has lived out here. 76 percent of the water on the west side 
is privately owned, 24 percent is owned by government or 
county.
    And that is, again, one of the barriers for us to work 
with. I mean, of course you can try to increase your capacity 
by--which is what we have been trying to do just to dig more 
wells to try to offer that. I mean, there are other things we 
can work with the private purveyors to try to acquire more of 
that water back.
    But even if you acquire the water, it is allocated by the 
state agency that allocates how much water we are allowed to 
take out of our water systems. So, even if you, let us say take 
over some of that 76 percent, that water is already allocated 
to somebody else anyway.
    So, those are some of the challenges that I have learned of 
since becoming mayor. And part of the infrastructure for us is, 
of course, cesspools being converted so that can be put on the 
county's system. Wastewater system, so, increasing wastewater 
capacity--you must have that before you can add more homes. So, 
I would say that is probably the--the biggest issue is 
infrastructure.
    Ms. Porter. Yes. And I think that is an area where 
rebuilding can give us a fresh start, an opportunity to 
improve. As you mentioned, before I wrap up, Ms. Nahme, did you 
want to add anything?
    Ms. Nahme. Yes, thank you. I wish our CEO Micah was here, 
because prior to the fire this was an area of huge focus called 
House Maui and informed now by the fire, for sure, that 
probably has to bump up on steroids. And so, we are really 
thankful that that is going to be a continued focus for the 
Hawaii Community Foundation.
    And we also just recently hired Keanu Lau Hee as my 
replacement and she will cover both the Maui recovery as well 
as focusing on House Maui.
    And because she has a lot of the relationships locally here 
and also with the county and a lot of experience there, the 
hope is that there will be this collective, because as mayor 
said, it will going to take state, county, community, cultural 
advisors, to all come up with again time-bound, measured kind 
of goal that everybody has to shoot for an issue that is going 
to require innovative strategies that we are learning from this 
disaster that we can implement to make sure that it truly is 
affordable based on what the median household income is.
    Ms. Porter. Yes, thank you very much. I think this is 
really a lesson for communities across the United States who 
are grappling with affordable housing problems that are 
affecting everything from rising homelessness problems which we 
are dealing with in California and many other places, to being 
able to attract businesses to their communities. You have to 
get ahead of this because it just makes the recovery that many 
times harder.
    And so, I encourage, you know, everyone here to continue to 
be in conversation with each other, but also to be innovative 
because I think redoing what you were doing is not going to get 
you where you ultimately need to be because you were already in 
a whole struggle before you started. And we are facing the 
exact change challenge in California, that rebuilding would 
leave us behind because we were starting from that place in 
terms of housing affordability.
    So, I will yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
    The gentlewoman, Tokuda, is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Tokuda. Thank you. And, again, thank you to the panel. 
We have walked together many, many days, it feels like years, 
but truly grateful to have all of you out there on the 
frontlines doing what you are doing every single day.
    To piggyback, you know, to Representative Porter's 
question, in many ways this fire ripped back the curtain for 
how we have struggled to just survived here in Hawaii from a 
housing perspective.
    Permitted versus unpermitted, you just do what you have to 
do, many of us living on top of each other just to be able to 
make ends meet. And then you see the crisis when something like 
fire happens and suddenly displacement is for not just a few 
but literally thousands and thousands of people who have been 
living together just to be able to get by.
    We see it not just here in Lahaina and Maui, we see it on 
every single island and so it is about being creative. It is 
also about how we build housing people can afford. I never talk 
about affordable anymore because even that is out of reach for 
most of our people right now.
    But looking at it, I know you talked a little bit about 
infrastructure, General Hara, please chime in as well, I know 
we have the recovery plan coming to fruition toward the end of 
the year, hoping that is on track.
    But also, just wondering that as, you know, we have heard a 
lot of comments today about needing to move faster to rebuild 
and permits being issued right now for various rebuilding and 
houses here in Lahaina.
    I just want to make sure that as we are issuing these 
permits and we are quickly looking to rebuild, are we making 
sure that we keep all of our options open to making sure we 
rebuild back better? Having visited Paradise, California, much 
of it was centered around keeping people safe and making them 
feel safe, so removing the fire risk.
    So, when we talk about the need potentially to underground 
facilities, to widen streets that were not wide enough to be 
able to allow people quick exit and whatnot, are we making sure 
that the rebuilding, the recovery plan includes things that 
will make our community as a whole safe and reflect the vision 
of the community? That it is not at cross purposes with just 
issuing permits quickly. Do you know what I am saying?
    Mayor Bissen. Yes, it is a balance that has to be struck. 
So, there have been 156 permits that have already been 
submitted and the 48 of those have been approved. This is just 
in Lahaina and couple in Kula and there are 20 homes that are 
currently being rebuilt right now in Lahaina. I think your 
point about having the material be fire resistant, fire 
retardant is obviously part of the messaging that having people 
build safer is of course something that has been also promoted.
    But I wanted to share is, for us, probably our main policy 
is to try to put the same people back in the same homes, on the 
same--because the risk that is threatened by is the people who 
are leaving. And, you know, building it back nice and safe, but 
having it be an entirely new group of people occupying would 
not be our goal. And so, there is the balance that I was just 
talking about.
    There are very big differences between Paradise and Lahaina 
in terms of the makeup of the community. That was more of a 
retirement community. It did not have the type of industry and 
they struggled for rebuilding because lots of that community 
decided not to return. And, of course, here we want our people 
to return and so there have been some differences. But I would 
say, you are absolutely right, we have to balance speed with 
the safety.
    Ms. Tokuda. And not necessarily impede the speed, but we 
have to make sure the planning and the approval of permits 
reflects, perhaps, even everyone's desire, including those 
homeowners applying for those permits, desire to build back 
smarter. And if we keep the exact footprints, are we precluding 
ourselves from building safer so undergrounding, widening, 
those types of things.
    And so, I just hope that all of that is a parallel, but not 
just in parallel, they kind of overlap each other as I have 
been talking about. So, we are not approving quickly or too 
quickly a lot of these permits to rebuild. And at some point, 
negating the opportunity for us to actually build the 
improvements that the entire community wants, which could be 
those underground utilities and wider streets, perhaps even 
cultural corridors, those types of things.
    So, I would just say we have to step back always and 
remember what is the big picture vision the community has 
presented and making sure we reflect that in the plans, as well 
as permitting and other types of decisions that go through. And 
I know that takes a lot of political and community will and 
courage as well at the end of the day, but I think that will be 
called upon us to be able to do that to make sure that what we 
build for the future is in fact the vision that our people have 
asked for. At the end of the day, keep them safe as well, in 
Lahaina, a place where people can live so thank you for that.
    And I would just like to ask one question of Keeaumoku. 
This could have worked out completely differently, in terms of 
a Federal response, to a disaster in one of our most sacred 
historical and cultural places. I think you and I both know 
that. There could have been time and place where we would not 
all be sitting in this same room together talking about how we 
have worked to get to this point. So, what made the difference 
to you? How is this different?
    You know, you have that historical institutional 
knowledge--he is young, too, by the way, I am not saying he is 
old--but how was this different from any other Federal response 
that you have experienced or heard about or seen? And how was 
it better so when we look forward, these are things--we have to 
correct things definitely, we have to fix little tweaks as you 
said, hiccups, but how do we institutionalize this because it 
was in fact better?
    Mr. Kapu. In my testimony I kind of mentioned, I said I sat 
on many boards and commissions. So, having that advantage, so 
looking at our town in a more different way. And I think that 
has a lot to do with one of the problems that we face when we 
talk about affordable homes and things like that, because we 
have got to realize that, you know, in Hawaii, it is really 
extremely different, especially when you talk about burial laws 
and you talk about, you know, any kind of infrastructure, 
especially during the first phase of the development they found 
bones when they started doing a lot of the transmission lines, 
so that is a big snag.
    So, for us, as the kahani as many years that I have been 
involved in, not just the review, been planning as well as 
consulting with things such as the culture corridor and why 
that is important is to make sure that we have people on the 
ground to address the needs of our historic properties mainly.
    And why that is important is because my County of Maui when 
we originally started in the beginning, we never thought we 
would take on a big responsibility such as being involved in 
these recovery efforts. I went from a 501(c)(3) nonprofit 
organization of only eight individuals in our organization to 
62 cultural monitors and observers.
    So, being provided the opportunity to step up and be a part 
of a solution and not the problem, I have been able to hire a 
lot of the family that lost homes, family that lost families. 
And it kind of changed the atmosphere pertaining to how we 
would dive into our community to make sure that our community, 
although being agitated, to know that we have not just 
Hawaiians, but also multigenerational families that we hired to 
be a part of the monitoring and observations that was going 
throughout the town. So, that was kind of great.
    In the beginning, I thought, you know, first of all that OK 
somebody putting me under the bus, but it was greater than 
that. I think one of the greatest opportunities was sitting 
with a lot of the contract people that came from afar, all the 
different primes, working with Nima, Hi ema, different 
contractors and all that and really understanding what the 
importance of why we were there.
    Our priority was to make sure that we focus on the 
residential side to get our families back home, because in the 
beginning my county in Maui was one of the hubs that was set up 
to provide provisions for our community, food, water, 
resources. And we did that periodically during a time when we 
were selected to be a part of the recovery efforts, my County 
of Maui's cultural monitoring program. Being involved with a 
lot of the architectural design, people that was hired, the 
contractors, the archeologists, stuff like that.
    So, it gave us an opportunity to look at the layers of 
different governances and how we can expedite it to make sure 
that the priority was to get the residents home. That was the 
first priority for us to make sure that we provide whatever 
needs and necessities. We are kind of like the watchdogs out 
there to make sure that the communities were protected, the 
properties were protected.
    Our whole responsibility to the kahani was we are the first 
and last defense to protect the integrity of our town. Although 
we were kind of a little bit on the incognito, but I think 
sometimes you have got to take that stance today because how we 
need to think expediting, how are we going to take care of our 
communities.
    So, mahalo for the question. I hope I answered it.
    Ms. Tokuda. Mahalo.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
    The distinguished gentleman, Mr. Case, is recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Case. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mayor, I want to follow up on Rep. Tokuda's questioning on 
essentially what we are building back to. Because from the very 
beginning, one of the big questions has been what is our target 
at the end of the day, what is Lahaina that we envision and 
that we want to bring back to life? And it may not be the same 
exact Lahaina as before.
    And actually, I am not sure it should be from a, you know, 
fire prevention, wildfire prevention and that is before you get 
to the community's concepts about how to bring back Lahaina as 
a vibrant residential and business and cultural community.
    And if you look at Mr. Fenton's charts that are in my head, 
we have all been in the briefings, the sequence depends on a 
decision soon or later about what that plan is for Lahaina. And 
I say this to you as a very practical matter, because from a 
Federal funding perspective, which is going to have to fund 
this, if we are, as your delegation and other, successful in 
opening up that next large tranche of Federal money in the 
Community Development Block Grant Disaster Relief, the CDBG-DR 
funding, and as you go to the private sector and others for 
partnerships along those lines, you have got have a plan.
    Otherwise, the money is not going to be--it is going to be 
very hard for us to say to the Feds, hey, we have got the CDBG-
DR funding and we are ready to fund it, but by the way, we did 
not know what we are funding for. And so, the real question 
here is, I recall Mr. Fenton's charts, I am not pinning it on 
him, because it was a question for everybody, but sometime 
around this period there would be that decision.
    I mean, not exactly right now, but soon, not later. And so, 
I am just, you know, Lahaina was in many areas nonconforming 
use. And so obviously, we now have the problems of the 
nonconforming use and how to work through that. The conditions 
of much of Lahaina facilitated or probably facilitated wildfire 
exposure, density, spacing setbacks, street width, et cetera, 
et cetera, wires above ground.
    And so, I guess my question is where are you on that 
decision? I know it is a complex decision. It is a decision, 
you know, for the community, for the elected leaders that we 
have always said from the beginning that is Maui's decision, 
but when is that decision coming along? Because it is not too 
far away that we are really going to need that decision to have 
been made.
    Mayor Bissen. I agree with you. Thank you, Congressman. The 
long-term recovery project is due to be out, the draft, in 
October. That is the result of many, many community meetings 
that we have held and also neighborhood meetings that our 
office of recovery staff has been pursuing.
    One of the, I guess, mantras we have had is that this would 
be community led and government supported. You know, keeping in 
mind we are not planning a subdivision that is owned by the 
county. These are all privately owned properties that we are 
needing to get input from, some that will be impacted more than 
others.
    When we talk about Front Street and the business community, 
also privately owned lands that are impacted by shoreline 
rules, by SMA rules, by so many rules. So, I guess the 
challenge is taking all of that into account and putting that 
into the plan that I mentioned to you. We had--our deadline was 
to be by the end of year and October is where we think the 
draft will come out, the first draft.
    Again, that is going to be a result of the meetings and 
what has been told to us by the community in those meetings--it 
is a compilation of those--of that feedback. So, that--it 
mirrors what we have been receiving. Totally understanding 
evacuation, health and safety factors, streets, you know, size 
of the streets. We have a lot of data, a lot of information 
that has also been factored into those decisions.
    But you are right. It is a challenge to try to all be on 
the same page, and it is probably going to start with a 
recommendation based on, again, what we have heard, and I am 
sure it will go through a few different drafts as we put it out 
to the community.
    Mr. Case. That is really good.
    And so, the process, I assume, would be you would put the 
draft together, and it would go out to the community for 
comment, but sooner or later, it has to be converted into a 
county ordinance, right?
    Mr. Bissen. Sure.
    Mr. Case. Possibly even amendments to state law for SMAs 
and that kind of stuff. So, we have got some--you know, it is 
not as if it is going to be done by the end of the year. It is 
just that the plan itself is out there and hopefully agreed to 
in concept.
    But a question along those lines. So, you already have--I 
think you said they have 157 permit applications, 40 or 50 in 
process, 20 approved. Are they----
    Mr. Bissen. Being built.
    Mr. Case. Twenty being built.
    Mr. Bissen. Twenty homes being built right now. There are 
48 that are approved.
    Mr. Case. Right.
    And are those--I assume that those 20 are being built in 
accordance with current code. So, like----
    Mr. Bissen. Those are permitted.
    Mr. Case. Right.
    Mr. Bissen. Those are all permitted.
    Mr. Case. So, they would have waived any nonconforming use 
issues or they did not have any or--I mean, they are being 
built according to some understanding of what Lahaina is going 
to look like afterwards, right? Because the houses are being 
rebuilt, as opposed to any modifications to, you know, lot 
lines or anything like that.
    Mr. Bissen. I think I understand your question. My answer 
is yes.
    Mr. Case. OK. All right, thanks.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time.
    It does not take a lot to have to sit here and listen and 
conjure up in your mind the undertaking that you are all 
involved in. We heard stories of roads that were too narrow, 
people that were trapped, exits that did not necessarily 
represent an emergency, may have represented daily life.
    I know there is an undertaking here, and my Federal partner 
friends, as we have spoken, the Mayor was in some of these 
because he and I spoke about the avenues that need to be 
addressed.
    But it is going to require a big undertaking. Are you going 
to take someone's title to a land and make it bigger or change 
it? What impact does that have on the next person? How do you 
take and widen a street knowing that you run into people's 
title? How do you come and say we want our infrastructure for 
electricity or other means? How do you dig the hole for that 
and come up with the agreement from the community? How do you 
cross lines?
    Our prayers are with you. We are not here to try and solve 
those, but I think you have adequately told me what I think I 
knew and understood as I watched this circumstance as it 
evolved. I think you have properly addressed each other. I 
think you have shown respect and dignity. I think our Federal 
partners have attempted to do that.
    But I will tell you the people on this side also are trying 
to weigh and measure not just money and time and effort, but we 
are trying to count on you to come up with some of those 
answers so that we are able to correspondingly find out, as 
your Members are, how do we work to make sure it can be 
accomplished.
    This is a serious undertaking. This is something that you 
can hope and pray it never happens in your lifetime. But I 
think that I am looking at a group of people that are up to it, 
and I want to pass to each of you, not as we leave here but as 
we listen and work through in our minds, this requires a lot of 
people, not just you, to have cooler heads, to have thoughtful 
ideas, and to work together.
    And there is an old saying in Texas, when the going gets 
rough, the rough get going. And they really work together, and 
they really find common elements.
    You may have heard me earlier, but the Mayor said to me, 
you know, Congressman Sessions, when we get 10 people in a 
room, you get 10 different ideas. I would say to you that I 
would challenge you to find a way to look at this where you can 
come up with that idea. And I would like to think that when you 
have done the heavy lifting, that you can come back to your 
delegation, and they will find common practice to be able to 
approach us.
    We did not come here to hear negative things. We came here 
to hear things about reality, and the reality of what you have 
presented us with and that we are respectfully coming back to 
you to say is, we think there was some flexibility allowed by 
your Federal partners. We think we have to make it work, and we 
think in Congress, we have got to work together to make that 
work.
    I have admiration for you. I have respect. There are 
communities in the district that I represent that lost 
everything by a twister that came and went in 48 seconds. It 
tore up lives, shifted ideas, and gave people a reason to be 
thankful but also to fear. And I want you to know I think you 
are up to it.
    Is there any Member here that wishes to extend with a 
second round? Mr. Case?
    Mr. Case. No. Thank you.
    Mr. Sessions. Ms. Porter?
    Ms. Porter. No. Thank you.
    Mr. Sessions. Yes, my adult is telling me hold on. And I 
can handle that. So, we will ask Ms. Tokuda when she comes 
back.
    So, I have been doing this for a few minutes anyway, trying 
to be nice, but I wanted to say what I said. So, I'm going to 
say right now, pending her coming back--and we get this, she 
needs to be given that opportunity--that I want to thank my 
staff for the professional work that they have developed. I 
want to thank my colleagues and their staff. I want to thank 
them for the time.
    And I also want to thank, as I did during the 6 years when 
I was Chairman of the Rules Committee, for the stenographers 
who have taken time to come and learn how to listen to 
California, Hawaiian, and Texan again as they try and take 
these words that are most genuinely and heartfelt.
    If someone reads the words, they may be able to decipher 
them as being different from normal hearings that we have.
    But for those of you who are here, I have been told this is 
on C-SPAN and will be available to people across the United 
States of America and for you, because I am sure they will 
replay it tonight, because I am sure my wife will see me.
    But what I want to say to you is, is that if you fail to 
watch the TV, you will fail to see the real names, work, 
prayers, emotions, and resiliency that has been exhibited today 
by this panel and the first panel. That I offer support and 
prayer and believe that we have done the right thing.
    But I want to say this: it is the people that sit behind 
you that also have to feel like they got a fair shot at hearing 
and understanding. And so, I would encourage my young Mayor and 
each of you to make sure that you are clear when you speak, 
that you enunciate those things that are still hopes and 
dreams, and that your Member of Congress will make sure that 
she transmits those to us, I think, appropriately, and we will 
listen.
    The gentlewoman is recognized for any closing statement she 
would choose to make. The gentlewoman is recognized.
    Ms. Tokuda. Thank you.
    And first of all, again, Mr. Chair, to you, we have been 
having these discussions literally for months, months and 
months about when was the best time, the most appropriate time, 
who to bring forward, what to see when you were here. I cannot 
thank you enough for just the aloha you have shown our people.
    And I think just from the two panels today, you have seen 
that there has been so much work done, and there is so much 
professional and personal commitment that each one of them 
brings to really making sure that we not just help people heal 
and recover but that we actually come back so much stronger, 
and that we reflect the Lahaina and the Maui, country of Maui 
as well, and the Hawaii that we want to be going forward into 
the future.
    And so, you know, as I said in the very beginning when I 
started, and I will say it again, it has been a really fast and 
long year for all of us. I think when we look around the room 
at the faces, when we hear the names, when we hear the bright 
spots and what we have been able to accomplish together, for 
many of us it triggers back all of these memories of where we 
were, what we were experiencing, both the highs and the lows.
    And so, it has been quite a trying year for us, but to be 
able to give us this opportunity in our home, in this space, to 
be able to share where we have come from and, more importantly, 
what we see for the future and how we can do better and be 
stronger going forward, that is truly a blessing for us that 
you would be willing to do this. Whereas, many times it is just 
what you get in writing or it is whoever happens to be in D.C. 
to be able to share that.
    So, this is really meaningful for our community to have 
this opportunity, and I know that there is plenty of folks in 
this room right now who have been strong leaders for this 
community, many watching online right now that have really 
stood up.
    And so, I wish you could meet all of them during your time 
here because I tell you, they would tell you the stories, and 
they would paint the picture of why the relationships have been 
so meaningful. And they will be lifelong. Folks like Bob, you 
cannot go anywhere. You will always, as I said, become anuhea 
and part of the ohana.
    And both of you as well. Thank you, Chair, Representative 
Porter. Taking the time to be here shows your commitment, the 
kuleana, you feel to making sure that whatever happens going 
forward is done, is done right. So, I truly feel blessed to 
have been a part of this and, again, just really want to thank 
you and thank everyone here for making this possible.
    Thank the teams, the folks that sit in the back sometime 
but who made sure that all of this happened in a way that will 
be respectful, as you said, and sensitive to the community. So, 
thank you again.
    Thank you to my colleague, Ed Case. While this is no longer 
his district, it was his district. He always makes sure, and we 
both do, that, you know, the needs of our state as a whole are 
represented in the halls of Congress. So, thank you again.
    Mahalo, everyone.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
    Without objection, all Members that are here have 5 
legislative days within to submit material and additional 
written questions for the witnesses. I would expect that the 
witnesses will respond back--I do not worry about that--but 
accordingly, so that we may put this entire matter together.
    Seeing no further business, without objection, the 
Subcommittee stands adjourned.
    Thank you very much.
    [Whereupon, at 1:26 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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