[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


             OVERSIGHT OF HOMELAND SECURITY INVESTIGATIONS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

       SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE

                                 OF THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION
                               __________

                     WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 2024
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-99
                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
         
                  [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]         


               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
56-819                     WASHINGTON : 2024                  
               
               
                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

DARRELL ISSA, California             JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking 
MATT GAETZ, Florida                      Member
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  ZOE LOFGREN, California
TOM McCLINTOCK, California           STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin               HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., 
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky                  Georgia
CHIP ROY, Texas                      ADAM SCHIFF, California
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina           ERIC SWALWELL, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             TED LIEU, California
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  J. LUIS CORREA, California
BEN CLINE, Virginia                  MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota        JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  LUCY McBATH, Georgia
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
KEVIN KILEY, California              CORI BUSH, Missouri
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming             GLENN IVEY, Maryland
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               BECCA BALINT, Vermont
LAUREL LEE, Florida                  Vacancy
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
MICHAEL RULLI, Ohio

                                 ------                                

                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND FEDERAL
                        GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE

                       ANDY BIGGS, Arizona, Chair

MATT GAETZ, Florida                  LUCY McBATH, Georgia, Ranking 
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin                   Member
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 CORI BUSH, Missouri
KEVIN KILEY, California              STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
LAUREL LEE, Florida                  HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., 
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina              Georgia
                                     Vacancy

               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
         AARON HILLER, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                     Wednesday, September 18, 2024

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

The Honorable Andy Biggs, Chair of the Subcommittee on Crime and 
  Federal Government Surveillance from the State of Arizona......     1
The Honorable Lucy McBath, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime 
  and Federal Government Surveillance from the State of Georgia..     3
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on 
  the Judiciary from the State of New York.......................     4

                                WITNESS

Katrina W. Berger, Executive Associate Director, Homeland 
  Security Investigations, U.S. Department of Homeland Security
  Oral Testimony.................................................     6
  Prepared Testimony.............................................     8

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on 
  Crime and Federal Government Surveillance are listed below.....    37

                 QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES FOR THE RECORD

Questions for Katrina W. Berger, Executive Associate Director, 
  Homeland Security Investigations, U.S. Department of Homeland 
  Security, submitted by the Honorable Matt Gaetz, a Member of 
  the Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance 
  from the State of Florida, the Honorable Steve Cohen, a Member 
  of the Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government 
  Surveillance from the State of Tennessee; the Honorable Henry 
  C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr., a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime 
  and Federal Government Surveillance from the State of Georgia; 
  and the Honorable Lucy McBath, a Member of the Subcommittee on 
  Crime and Federal Government Surveillance from the State of 
  Georgia, for the record
    No response at the time of publication

 
             OVERSIGHT OF HOMELAND SECURITY INVESTIGATIONS

                              ----------                              


                     Wednesday, September 18, 2024

                        House of Representatives

       Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m., in 
room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Andy Biggs 
[Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Biggs, Jordan, Gaetz, 
Nehls, Moore, Lee, Fry, McBath, Nadler, Dean, Cohen, Johnson, 
and Garcia.
    Mr. Biggs. The Subcommittee will come to order. Without 
objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at any 
time. We welcome everyone to today's hearing on Oversight of 
Homeland Security Investigations.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Florida who 
will lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.
    All. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States 
of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one 
Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for 
all.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Without objection, Mr. Garcia will be 
able to participate in today's hearing for the purposes of 
questioning the witness and will receive five minutes for that 
purpose.
    I will now recognize myself for an opening statement. I 
thank all the Members for coming today, this is an important 
hearing, and I appreciate the Homeland Security Executive 
Associate Director Berger for joining us today.
    Today's hearing is titled ``Oversight of Homeland Security 
Investigations.'' Homeland Security Investigations, HSI, is a 
law enforcement agency within the Department of Homeland 
Security and HSI has a broad mission and works to keep 
Americans safe. HSI plays a significant role in addressing 
child exploitation, both domestically and internationally. HSI 
handles more than 60 percent of CSAM cases in the U.S. that 
have an international nexus. In Fiscal Year 202023, HSI 
initiated 6,601 child exploitation investigations and made 
4,214 child exploitation-related arrests and identified and 
assisted over 1,806 victims of child exploitation. The agency-
specialized units, like the Cyber Crime Center and the National 
Child Victim Identification System, continue to be important in 
protecting children and dismantling global child exploitation 
networks.
    In this Congress, this Committee has held two important 
hearings on these issues. The first was a year ago this month 
entitled, ``Children Are Not For Sale'' examining the threat of 
exploitation of children in the U.S. and abroad. The second was 
six months ago entitled, ``A Voice for the Voiceless-CSAM 
Identification.'' We heard important testimony during those 
hearings, and I look forward to continuing that discussion with 
Executive Associate Director Berger today.
    The very first hearing this Subcommittee held this Congress 
was titled, ``The Fentanyl Crisis in America: Inaction is No 
Longer an Option.'' Unfortunately, that statement is still true 
today as it was last year when we heard the tragic stories from 
the loved ones that were poisoned by those who trafficked in 
fentanyl. HSI has played a pivotal role in combating fentanyl 
trafficking into the country seizing over 77,000 pounds of 
fentanyl in the last three fiscal years. In Fiscal Year 2023 
alone, HSI seized over 41,000 pounds of fentanyl. However, in 
my opinion, HSI's efforts are slowed and hampered by its lack 
of Title 21 authority. Title 21 of the United States Code is 
needed to independently investigate and enforce drug laws. 
Apparently, only DEA and FBI have Title 21 authority. Without 
it, HSI must rely on DEA approval to investigate narcotics 
trafficking. These unnecessary bureaucratic steps caused delays 
in investigations and hampered the success in both agencies. 
HSI's efforts domestically and internationally target the 
disruption of supply chains of synthetic opioids. HSI also 
combats numerous other threats toward citizens in our economy, 
such as preventing intellectual property theft, tackling cyber 
threats, and stopping financial fraud, illegal trade, and the 
sale of counterfeit goods.
    It is obvious that HSI has a full plate which is why I was 
concerned to hear that HSI is overburdened by its commitment to 
support the U.S. Secret Service with protection duties. Make no 
mistake. I am committed to ensuring that those the Secret 
Service protect are fully protected so that we can avoid the 
situations we have witnessed over the past two months, but we 
need to do it in a way that is not interfering with other very 
important law enforcement functions. HSI faces operational 
challenges due to the diversion of personnel and funds to 
support Secret Service operations. From 2019-2024, HSI provided 
over 717,000 hours of personnel support to the Secret Service 
at a cost of over $22 million in unreimbursed salaries. 
According to some whistleblowers, some of the agents assigned 
to protect President Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania, were HSI 
agents. I am curious to know the type of training that these 
protective agents that are on loan from HSI received from 
Secret Service.
    As I indicated, I am all for protecting our President, Vice 
President, and major candidates for those offices, but that is 
717,000 hours that could have been used to combat human 
trafficking, interdiction of fentanyl trafficking, or stopping 
the proliferation of CSAM. To that end, I have produced a 
document that I am forwarding to the Speaker of the House on 
ways to mitigate Secret Service's needs and look forward to his 
response to that. I look forward to discussing these issues 
with our witness this morning.
    Also, I would inform the body that this morning's story 
broke indicating that the attempted assassin, Mr. Routh, who is 
now in custody, was referred to investigation by CPT to HSI and 
HSI declined that investigation. I have informed the EAD of 
that and look forward to this hearing discussion about that as 
well.
    So, with that, I yield back and recognize the Ranking 
Member, Ms. McBath, for her opening statement.
    Ms. McBath. Thank you, Chair Biggs, and thank you, Ms. 
Berger, for being with us today.
    We have a very important discussion ahead of us today and I 
would like to shed light on the critical role and mission of 
Homeland Security Investigations, or HSI, as we will call from 
here on out, which is an integral division within the U.S. 
Department of Homeland Security. HSI's nearly 9,000-person 
workforce operates in the United States and abroad safeguarding 
our Nation from a broad spectrum of threats that could 
compromise its security safety and well-being. The primary 
mission of HSI is to investigate and combat threats that 
undermine the safety and the stability of the United States. 
This mandate encompasses a wide array of responsibility, 
reflecting the diverse nature of the threats we face in our 
interconnected world.
    HSI's work is crucial in maintaining national security and 
upholding the rule of law. HSI plays a vital role in preventing 
terrorist activities. Through robust investigations and 
intelligence gathering, HSI works to identify and disrupt 
terrorist plots before they even materialize. Their efforts 
include analyzing threats, investigating links between 
extremist groups, and coordinating with other agencies to 
thwart potential attacks, and the agency also ensures 
compliance with immigration law. This involves investigating 
unlawful activities like human trafficking, document fraud, and 
the illegal employment of undocumented individuals. By 
enforcing these laws, HSI helps maintain the integrity of our 
immigration system.
    In an increasingly digital world, HSI is at the forefront 
of tackling cyber-crime. They investigate complex cyber threats 
including online fraud, identity theft, and the illegal 
distribution of contraband. Their work is crucial in protecting 
individuals and businesses from financial losses and data 
breaches. Special agents also address crimes that cross 
international borders such as drug trafficking, organized 
crime, and money laundering. By disrupting these transnational 
criminal networks, HSI helps mitigate the impact of these 
illicit activities on communities nationwide and globally.
    Just as protecting children is a top priority for me, it is 
also a top priority for HSI. Their investigations target those 
involved in child exploitation including online predators, 
producers, distributors, and consumers of child sexual abuse 
material and human traffickers. By rescuing victims and 
prosecuting their offenders, HSI strives to ensure the safety 
and dignity of the most vulnerable among us. HSI's 
collaborative approach improves its effectiveness. The agency 
works closely with other Federal, State, local, and 
international partners to address complex and evolving threats. 
This collaboration extends to leveraging advanced technology 
and data analysis and analytics to enhance investigative 
capabilities and operational efficiency. For example, 
investigators routinely partner with the National Center for 
Missing and Exploited Children to help identify and rescue 
sexually exploited children based largely on information that 
is extracted from images or videos found online. The technology 
used by purveyors of child sexual abuse material continues to 
evolve, leaving our children at even greater risk of harm.
    Atlanta, which I represent, for example, is one of the 14 
States with the highest rates of children used in sex 
trafficking and ranks just second in the country for the 
highest rate of human trafficking. Our children are our future 
and represent one of the most vulnerable populations. We must 
protect them and do everything in our power to ensure that they 
are safe and looked after. That is why I was so pleased that my 
bill, the End Child Exploitation Act, became law just recently. 
That law extends the period that technology companies must 
securely store information about child sexual abuse images that 
they report to NCMEC. To give law enforcement, including HSI 
agents and their investigative partners, a greater chance of 
rescuing and bringing home our missing and exploited children. 
HSI is pivotal to our national security. The agency tackles 
diverse threats with broad and unique investigative and 
enforcement authority, which requires Congress to ensure proper 
guardrails to provide effective oversight.
    Given the sensitive nature of their work and the potential 
for abuse of power, HSI must operate with a high level of 
accountability and oversight. Only to a commitment to prevent 
overreach, protect civil liberties and promote accountability, 
transparency, and effective oversight can HSI maintain the 
trust and confidence of the public and truly carry out its 
central mission.
    Today's conversation should focus on what more Congress can 
do to make sure that this agency has what it needs to fulfill 
the crucial role in keeping us all safe. I am here today to 
find solutions and ensure that HSI has the tools that it needs 
to be successful and to keep us all protected.
    I look forward to what you have to say, Director, I really 
do. Thank you so much and I look forward to all of us 
supporting HSI and I yield back.
    Ms. Lee. [Presiding.] The gentlelady yields back. I now 
recognize the Chair of the Full Committee, Mr. Jordan, for his 
opening statement.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the Chair. I don't have an opening 
statement. I just want to thank the Director for being here and 
for the work that your agency does, and I yield back.
    Ms. Lee. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Full 
Committee, Mr. Nadler, for his opening statement.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, Homeland 
Security Investigations, or HSI, is a vital component of the 
Department of Homeland Security, responsible for conducting a 
wide range of investigations related to national security, 
border security, transnational crime, child exploitation, human 
trafficking, smuggling, and other threats to the homeland. The 
daily work of HSI agents involves conducting complex 
investigations, gathering intelligence, and collaborating with 
domestic and international partners to disrupt criminal 
networks and prevent potential threats to national security and 
public safety.
    One of the key features of HSI is its broad authority to 
use various tools and strategies to protect the country from 
terrorist attacks, cyber threats, natural disasters, and other 
risks. HSI agents have the authority to arrest individuals, 
seize assets, and execute search warrants in pursuit of their 
mission to safeguard the Nation from a variety of threats. This 
authority necessarily enables robust intelligence gathering and 
analysis, supports border security, and provide for the 
critical protection of our online infrastructure.
    With this broad authority, however, comes the need for 
accountability and oversight to ensure that HSI and its partner 
agencies are acting in accordance with the law and with respect 
for our civil liberties. The HSI efforts with its emphasis on 
urgency and sometimes secrecy can sometimes lead to abuses of 
power or violations of individual rights. The potential for 
abuse is multiplied with the introduction of new technology 
such as artificial intelligence, face recognition, and even 
cellular stingrays.
    Therefore, it is essential to have robust oversight 
mechanisms in place including congressional hearings like this 
one, independent audits and judicial review to provide 
transparency and accountability and to safeguard against abuses 
of power. I hope that today's conversation includes a 
discussion of measures HSI has in place to ensure both 
transparency and accountability which are crucial to 
maintaining public trust in the agency, protecting against the 
erosion of civil liberties in the name of national security, 
and ensuring that HSI's efforts are effective and proportionate 
to the threats it seeks to address. By promoting a culture of 
accountability and oversight, we can strike the right balance 
between protecting national security and our communities while 
safeguarding individual freedoms in a democratic society.
    I am also interested to hear about HSI's recent efforts to 
gain Title 21 authority which would give agents the power to 
enforce drug-related laws like those enforced by the Drug 
Enforcement Administration, or DEA. While some have argued that 
this is good policy, I remain somewhat skeptical. Granting HSI 
Title 21 authority could create jurisdictional conflicts, 
operational challenges, and redundancies in efforts, 
potentially leading to confusion, inefficiencies, and 
complications in the execution of drug-related investigations.
    The existing framework of collaboration and coordination 
between HSI and DEA, along with other law enforcement partners, 
has largely proven effective in destructing drug-trafficking 
networks, dismantling criminal organizations, and protecting 
communities from the harmful effects of illicit drugs. I am not 
convinced that extending HSI's authority in this regard is 
necessary or wise, but I expect that Associate Executive Berger 
might have a different opinion which I am interested in 
hearing.
    Considering the broad mandate under which HSI operates, I 
am also eager to hear what Congress can do to leverage the 
strengths of the agency and to ensure that it has the tools it 
needs to fulfill its mission of protecting the homeland and all 
Americans against the wide range of threats we face both seen 
and unseen.
    Ms. Berger, I thank you for appearing here today and I look 
forward to your testimony. Thank you and I yield back.
    Ms. Lee. Without objection, all other openings statements 
will be included in the record. We will now introduce today's 
witness, Ms. Katrina Berger.
    Ms. Berger is the Executive Associate Director of Homeland 
Security Investigations, a role she has held since July 2023. 
She previously served as a Special Agent in Charge of HSI's 
Atlanta, Georgia office and has served for more than 25 years 
in law enforcement. We welcome our witness and thank her 
appearing today.
    We will begin by swearing you in. Would you please rise and 
raise your right hand?
    Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the 
testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best 
of your knowledge, information, and belief so help you God?
    Let the record reflect that the witness has answered in the 
affirmative. Thank you.
    Please know that your written testimony will be entered 
into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask that you 
summarize your testimony.
    Ms. Berger, you may begin.

                  STATEMENT OF KATRINA BERGER

    Ms. Berger. Thank you, Chair Biggs, Ranking Member McBath, 
and distinguished Members of this Committee, on behalf of HSI, 
I wish to express our condolences on the passing of Ranking 
Member Jackson Lee. As a Special Agent in Charge in our Dallas, 
Texas office, I had the opportunity to meet with her on several 
occasions. She served our Nation and the State of Texas as a 
dedicated Member of this Committee.
    Thank you for this opportunity to appear before you today 
and to discuss the tireless efforts that the men and women of 
HSI perform to safeguard our Nation's security, public health, 
and economy by identifying, disrupting, and dismantling 
transnational poly-criminal organizations. I am truly humbled 
to represent their exemplary service to this Nation.
    I am a career special agent and currently serve as the 
Executive Associate Director of HSI. In this role, I lead 8,700 
employees including over 7,000 special agents assigned to 235 
domestic field offices and 93 international offices in 56 
countries. I also oversee our nine headquarters divisions, 11 
specialized national centers, and the administration of our 
$2.4 billion annual budget.
    HSI was formed with the creation of the Department of 
Homeland Security with a merger of the investigative components 
of the legacy U.S. Customs and Immigration and Naturalization 
Services and is the largest criminal investigative components 
of DHS, empowered with broad, legal authority to conduct 
Federal criminal investigations into the illegal cross border 
movement of people and merchandise to include goods, money, 
technology, and other contraband.
    HSI uses this broad authority to successfully investigate a 
wide array of transnational crimes to include national security 
threats, narcotics and contraband smuggling, transnational 
criminal gang activity, child exploitation, human smuggling, 
human trafficking, illegal export of weapons and controlled 
technology, money laundering, financial fraud, cyber and cyber 
financial crimes, intellectual property theft, trade fraud, 
identity and benefit fraud, and human rights violations 
including war crimes.
    HSI special agents collect evidence in furtherance of 
criminal prosecutions which result in the conviction of 
individuals and a dismantlement of organizations which would 
exploit our Nation's borders and threaten the public safety. 
HSI's international presence is the largest within DHS and 
enables HSI investigations to reach far beyond our national 
borders. HSI's cadre of internationally assigned special 
agents, criminal agents, and mission support personnel work 
alongside locally employed staff and foreign law enforcement, 
customs and immigration partners to advance HSI's 
investigations and the DHS mission around the world.
    HSI also leads eight national whole of government centers 
combating transnational crime including the Angel Watch Center 
which partners with the U.S. Marshals and CBP to use flight 
data to identify and alert foreign law enforcement of the 
international travel plans of registered sex offenders; the DHS 
Center for Counter and Human Trafficking which provides 
investigative support and training as well as services to 
trafficking victims; the Cross-Border Financial Crime Center 
which leverages HCI's expertise and money laundering and 
financial crimes investigations with industry experts and 
foreign partners to identify the illicit movement of money 
worldwide; the DHS Cyber Crime Center or C3, which supports 
among other programmatic areas investigations into the 
productive and distribution of child sexual abuse material and 
technical forensic support to cyber-enabled crimes; the Export 
Enforcement Coordination Center or E2C2, in partnership with 
DOJ and Commerce which coordinates and supports investigations 
into the illegal exports of controlled technologies; the Human 
Rights Violators and War Crimes Center, which ensures 
individuals who commit atrocities worldwide are unable to flee 
and seek refuge within the United States; the National Bulk 
Cash Smuggling Center, which assists our domestic and 
international law enforcement partners in interdicting and 
investigating the illicit movement of bulk cash; and finally, 
the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center, 
which is world-renowned for its expertise and effectiveness in 
combatting intellectual property rights violations.
    In addition to investigations and results produced by our 
agents, HSI continues to serve as a lead component in DHS' 
overarching mission protecting the homeland. This commitment to 
supporting fellow DHS components can be best illustrated 
through HSI's continued support to the Secret Service, CBP, and 
others. For example, between 2019-2024, HSI special agents have 
worked more than 700,000 hours in support of the Secret 
Service's essential protection mission. I would once again like 
to recognize the true strength of HSI, its workforce, who 
remain vigilant in their efforts to protect our Nation from 
ever-evolving threats.
    Chair Biggs, Ranking Member McBath, esteemed Members of the 
Committee, I look forward to answering your questions regarding 
the amazing work being done by HSI to safeguard our Nation.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Berger follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Ms. Berger. We will now proceed under 
the five-minute rule with questions. I begin by recognizing 
myself for five minutes.
    I would like to take a moment and commend HSI for Operation 
Boiling Point, DHS's response to organized retail crime. By 
partnering with groups such as the National Retail Federation 
and Coalition of Law Enforcement and Retail CLEAR, HSI has been 
able to bridge the gap between public and private information 
sharing and best practices to ultimately stop organized theft 
groups. HSI has spoken publicly in the past about connections 
between organized retail crime and domestic and transnational 
criminal organizations including groups engaged in human 
trafficking.
    Director Berger, have recent investigations found those 
types of connections?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for that question. Much of the work 
that we encounter, transnational criminal organizations, all 
organized crime has turned into poly-criminal organizations 
that are involved not in just in one type of violation, but 
multiple crimes that affect our communities. Organized crime 
people may see organized crime and not think that it is very 
serious, but these groups are laundering money, they are 
involved in human trafficking, human smuggling, and various 
ways to further the criminal business and criminal enterprises.
    Ms. Lee. Does HSI coordinate with State and local law 
enforcement in pursuit of this type of organized theft group 
and if so, how?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for letting me elaborate on that. We 
definitely do. We collaborate on all levels with Federal, 
local, State partners, with industry to investigate leads. We 
accept tips, leads to further investigate these types of 
crimes. We do outreach with industry as well, so that they 
recognize some of the factors of things that they need to 
report if they see suspicious activity.
    Ms. Lee. If you would, share with us why you believe it is 
important, assuming that you do, that HSI and other Federal 
agencies with multijurisdictional authority have a role in 
investigating and prosecuting organized retail theft?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for letting me elaborate a little bit 
further. Again, it is not just the organized retail theft, it 
is all the associated crimes that these poly-criminal 
organizations are involved with that are impacting our 
communities. They can be involved with--they are involved with 
illicit financial schemes, money laundering, human trafficking, 
human smuggling, and Chinese money laundering operations. There 
is a whole plethora of violations and criminal activity that 
they are involved with that are putting our communities at 
risk.
    Ms. Lee. On that subject of human trafficking, I would like 
to turn your attention to the work that HSI does in combating 
child exploitation and cyber-crimes, specifically, the use of 
the Cyber Crimes Center, or C3. Would you please elaborate for 
us on C3, what it is, and how it operates?
    Ms. Berger. The C3, the Department's Cyber Crime Center is 
an HSI-led Cyber Crime Center focusing on crimes and internet-
facilitated crimes. One of our flagship programs is our work in 
the child exploitation area. We actively investigate and 
prosecute individuals and organizations that are involved with 
the production and distribution of child exploitation material. 
We take this very seriously. This is a global problem, far 
reaching. We work with our international partners to help 
protect not only child victims in this country, but child 
victims around the world.
    Ms. Lee. In that work, do you also partner with the 
National Center for Missing and Exploited Children?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, ma'am. We do. NCMEC, the National Center 
for Missing and Exploited Children, is a fabulous partner. We 
have personnel embedded with them. Tim Tebow of the Tim Tebow 
Foundation is also a phenomenal partner and provides us with a 
lot of support, especially in being able to bring experts in 
the field from some of our foreign partner organizations and 
partner law enforcement in different countries to come and help 
identify and rescue victims through Operation Renewed Hope.
    Ms. Lee. Actually, Operation Renewed Hope recently 
demonstrated an incredibly successful effort, a partnership 
between HSI and NCMEC, the Tebow Foundation, and those partners 
you referenced. Would you tell us a little bit more about that 
operation and if you had additional resources and HSI agents 
working on that, is it something that you believe would be a 
successful effort in increasing the number of children who are 
rescued?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, ma'am. It definitely would. Certainly, we 
can always do more when we have more, either in terms of 
staffing or funding. There is a lot that we can do with 
technology, a lot of technology out there that we can really 
further the identification investigating child victims.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Ms. Berger. I now recognize the 
gentlewoman from Georgia, the Ranking Member, Ms. McBath.
    Ms. McBath. Thank you so much.
    Ms. Berger, it has become a practice for Federal agencies 
to work with local law enforcement, as you have mentioned 
today, to deliver assistance and partner on various efforts to 
track criminals, close cases, and share information. What 
specific initiatives or partnerships has HSI established in 
Atlanta, which I represent, to combat child sex trafficking?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for that question, ma'am. Atlanta, 
being former Special Agent in Charge there, and I maintain my 
residence there, is very near and dear to my heart.
    We partner with Secret Service and State and local agencies 
through the ICAC, the Internet Crimes Against--the Internet--
ICAC--I'm sorry, I'm stumbling; forgive me--to identify risks 
for children out there. We do a lot of outreach, with our 
Know2Protect campaign and our iGuardian campaign to educate 
children at all ages, minors, young children, teens, tweens, as 
to internet safety; parents, teachers, trusted partners, or 
trusted adults. So that if children are being preyed on, if 
they communicating with an adult online and they are requested 
to provide inappropriate pictures, that they know to come 
forward; they know that there's adults out there that they can 
talk with. It's a conversation that many people don't want to 
have, but we really need to be protecting our children in this 
fight against online predators.
    Ms. McBath. Thank you. So, what specific challenges and 
gaps has HSI encountered in its current approach to tackling 
child and sex trafficking; specifically, in Atlanta?
    Ms. Berger. Sorry, I'm struggling with the mic.
    We work very closely with all the partners. We can always 
do more with more resources, but we work very collaboratively 
with our partners in this area, with NGO's, with the law 
enforcement partners, with the communities, and with the 
schools.
    The more outreach we do, the more opportunities we're able 
to get in front of vulnerable communities, so they can hear our 
message, the better. I think ICE branding. Certainly, being 
able to have HSI standalone branding which separates us from--
it doesn't separate us but lets us independently brand 
ourselves as HSI. We're able to reach communities such as 
immigrant communities that would otherwise not want to really 
talk to us or hear our message because of our affiliation and 
our association with ICE.
    Ms. McBath. Thank you for that.
    So, what you just described for us are ways in which HSI is 
overcoming these challenges, so that you can improve the 
effectiveness of combating crime specifically in Georgia. I 
represent a district now that a large proportion of the people 
in my district are immigrants who have come from outside of the 
United States. So, I want to keep an eye and focus on making 
sure that I protect their interests as well. So, thank you for 
that.
    What is the agency doing to evaluate, and also, refine 
strategies, address resource limitations, and to adapt to the 
emerging trafficking trends that keep growing day by day?
    Ms. Berger. We are very involved with emerging threats. 
Atlanta, as you are well aware is a hub. It is a major transit 
area for various transportation routes. Large cities, large 
metropolitan areas are often a prime area for human trafficking 
activities to take place.
    We continue to do significant outreach with industries such 
as hotels, hotel staff, service/hospitality industry, so that 
they recognize human trafficking efforts when they sense this 
when they see it.
    I think many of us over the last couple of years have 
noticed an increased signage in airports and restaurants. Under 
our Blue Campaign public awareness, if you see something, to 
come forward, recognizing the indicators of human trafficking 
and knowing what to do.
    Ms. McBath. I just want to say, I can remember when I was a 
flight attendant, I can remember now, I recognize what it was; 
I did not know at the time. There would be many young women 
that would be put on the aircraft coming from either Texas, or 
New Mexico, or Arizona. They would get onboard the aircraft and 
they would sit very quietly, and they wouldn't answer any 
questions. They wouldn't say anything. The minute they would 
get off the aircraft, they would scatter into the bathrooms and 
scatter throughout the airport. So now, I'm recognizing that 
those were individuals that, some of them, I'm sure were 
trafficked.
    So, thank you very much for the work that you are doing, 
because I have actually seen that in action.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Lee. The gentlelady yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the Chair of the Full Committee, 
the gentleman from Ohio, for five minutes, Mr. Jordan.
    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Director, who is Kevin Rojek?
    Ms. Berger. I'm sorry, sir, could you say--
    Chair Jordan. Kevin Rojek, R-o-j-e-k.
    Ms. Berger. I'm sorry, sir, I don't recognize the name.
    Chair Jordan. Well, he is the Special Agent in Charge at 
the FBI Pittsburgh office looking into the assassination 
attempt on President Trump that took place in Butler, 
Pennsylvania. My understanding is HSI had a number of agents at 
Butler at that particular day. Is that accurate?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, sir, that's correct. We had 16 agents, 
special agents, assigned to the Butler farm, and farm rally.
    Chair Jordan. You had 16 of your people there?
    Ms. Berger. Sixteen.
    Chair Jordan. Yes.
    Ms. Berger. One to six.
    Chair Jordan. Do you know how many Secret Service agents 
were there that day?
    Ms. Berger. No, sir, I don't.
    Chair Jordan. You had 16 of your agents supplementing and 
helping with the security of President Trump on July 13th in 
Butler, Pennsylvania?
    Ms. Berger. We provided support to Secret Service as 
collateral law enforcement support. We were not in a position 
where we were directly protecting the principal. We would 
never, as HSI agents, be assigned to that position.
    Chair Jordan. I understand. You were helping out that day?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, sir.
    Chair Jordan. The guy who is doing the investigation 
looking into what took place where President Trump was hit by a 
bullet from the assassin, and another American was killed, and 
two other Americans were injured, the guy who is in charge of 
that investigation has not talked to you, even though 16 of 
your agents were there that day?
    Ms. Berger. No, sir.
    Chair Jordan. You don't even know Kevin Rojek, never heard 
of him?
    Ms. Berger. I haven't. I can tell you that Monday, after 
the assassination attempt in West Palm Beach, I reached out to 
Acting Deputy Director Vince Tutoni, who was in West Palm or 
the vicinity at the time, had gone down. I did speak to him on, 
on Monday to further--
    Chair Jordan. You reached out?
    Ms. Berger. I reached out to him, sir.
    Chair Jordan. Do you know who Jeffrey Beltre is?
    Ms. Berger. No, sir.
    Chair Jordan. OK. He is the guy in Miami who works for the 
FBI who is overseeing what took place Sunday, the second 
assassination attempt on President Trump. You have not talked 
to him?
    Ms. Berger. No, sir.
    Chair Jordan. You have actively reached out. Who is the 
individual you spoke to in Miami? He works for HSI?
    Ms. Berger. No. Vince Tutoni, he's the Acting Deputy 
Director for Secret Service.
    Chair Jordan. For Secret Service? OK.
    Ms. Berger. I will say, if I may--
    Chair Jordan. Uh-hum.
    Ms. Berger. --certainly, with an incident like this, they 
are very, certainly, very busy. I did not take any offense that 
they did not reach out to me.
    Chair Jordan. Even though it has been two months, since the 
guy in Butler, that's two months ago? The guy running the 
investigation has not reached out to the individual in charge 
of the 16 agents who were there and who were supposed to be 
helping supplement the protection of the President, former 
President?
    Ms. Berger. It's something, our support to Secret Service 
is something ongoing that we do all the time. It's baked into 
our mission. We've done this historically--
    Chair Jordan. Did you have agents in Miami on Sunday 
working on President Trump's detail or helping supplement his 
Secret Service detail?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, sir, we had four.
    Chair Jordan. You had four?
    Ms. Berger. We had four. Two were on shift and two were on 
shift, not in the immediate vicinity. Two were not on shift at 
the time of the event.
    Chair Jordan. So, you had agents at both of the 
assassinations attempts on the former President, and the 
individuals at the FBI conducting the investigations have not 
talked to you? In one case, that's been over two months ago.
    Ms. Berger. Correct.
    Chair Jordan. That's your testimony today? Is that 
accurate?
    Ms. Berger. Correct.
    Chair Jordan. I find that troubling. I find that troubling.
    Let's switch here for a second. What type of training do 
your agents receive before they--well, let me ask this: How 
long has HSI been supplementing the Secret Service and giving 
agents to help the Secret Service in their duties?
    Ms. Berger. Sir, thank you for that question.
    Certainly, back to our time when we were U.S. Customs 
Service agents with Secret Service under the Department of 
Treasury. I don't have the exact date, but this is, 
historically, something that we have supported Secret Service. 
I personally--
    Chair Jordan. It's fairly common, you are saying?
    Ms. Berger. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. OK. Is it common to have that many agents at 
an event with the former President? Was that unusual or is 16 
kind of normal? Or do you sometimes have more; sometimes--what 
is kind of normal?
    Ms. Berger. It varies, based on the need and the situation.
    Chair Jordan. Is it ongoing? Does President Trump always 
have some HSI people with him now when he is traveling or even, 
it looks like, when he is at his residence in Florida?
    Ms. Berger. We provide support to Secret Service, and then, 
they assign our personnel as needed.
    Chair Jordan. OK. OK.
    Madam Chair, I just find it kind of astonishing that the 
people doing the investigation haven't talked to the individual 
who is in charge of so many of these agents, who have been 
supplementing President Trump's security detail. Maybe that's 
why it is good that, in the case of what happened on Sunday, 
Governor DeSantis is actually doing his own investigation. 
Maybe that will be done a little bit better.
    With that, I yield back to the Chair of the Committee.
    Mr. Biggs. [Presiding.] Will you yield to me a moment, just 
a moment?
    Chair Jordan. Yes, I'll yield. You've got the last--
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Director, my question is, the U.N. General Assembly is 
going this week and next week. Do you have HSI agents 
supporting protective duty there as well?
    Ms. Berger. I'm sorry, for UNGA, for U.N. General Assembly?
    Mr. Biggs. For UNGA, yes.
    Ms. Berger. Yes, sir, we do. We have around 1,200 agents 
supporting the U.N. General Assembly.
    Mr. Biggs. Twelve hundred? What percentage of the entire 
complement of agents that you have is supporting UNGA right 
now?
    Ms. Berger. We have around--my math isn't great--around 
7,000-7,600 agents. So, we have about 1,200 supporting UNGA.
    Mr. Biggs. So, it is about 18 percent, something like that 
maybe?
    Ms. Berger. It's a significant number of agents.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
    Thank you for yielding to me, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Nadler is recognized for his five minutes of questions.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Ms. Berger, as I noted in my opening statement, I'm 
somewhat skeptical of the proposal to grant Title 21 authority 
to HSI, but I want to give you the opportunity to make the case 
for why it is necessary and appropriate. In your opinion, what 
specific limitations or challenges does HSI face in drug 
enforcement without Title 21 authority, and how does this lack 
of authority impact the effectiveness of HSI's operations in 
this area?
    Ms. Berger. The way drug cartels and TCOs operate has 
changed dramatically over the last decade. These are no longer 
single-scope violators. They are poly-criminal organizations 
that are involved in many different times, types of crime.
    HSI, as an agency that investigates poly-criminal activity, 
is well-poised and well-positioned to attack these criminal, 
poly-criminal organizations on all aspects of their criminal 
activity. For instance, if one of the limitations we face right 
now, if we're working, if HSI is working a human smuggling 
case, and they discover that the organization is also involved 
in narcotics smuggling, we have to pause our investigation--
really not pause--we have to stop our investigation and take 
time to complete other administrative tasks with DEA.
    We totally lose the momentum on the case. Oftentimes, we 
may lose evidence. We may lose the opportunity to identify 
witnesses; use cooperating defendants; execute controlled 
deliveries to identify more violators that are involved in 
these sorts of activities; rescue victims. It really slows us 
down tremendously and affects these cases in a very negative 
way.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    If granted Title 21 authority, how would HSI avoid 
conflicts with DEA investigations?
    Ms. Berger. DEA is a great partner. We have collaborated, 
traditionally, historically, over the years, and many of our 
very best cases against the cartels and TCOs have been worked 
jointly and collaboratively with DEA.
    We deconflict regularly with DEA. The deconfliction would 
not stop. I envision we would continue to work collectively and 
collaboratively against these organizations that are bringing 
fentanyl into our communities and killing our friends, family 
members, and other community members.
    Mr. Nadler. My next question, you may have just answered. 
That is, how would you minimize redundancies and inefficiencies 
created by giving overlapping authority to multiple agencies?
    Ms. Berger. Sir, thank you for the question.
    It may look like there are redundancies and there are some 
redundancies, but we all bring very unique authorities to the 
table. All the agencies have different authorities and 
different expertise.
    Our history as a U.S. Customs Service agency, and our work 
with our foreign partners, international presence, expertise 
with the supply chain, and with our collaboration with CBP, 
really gives us the unique abilities to attack this problem at 
all parts of the supply chain.
    It wouldn't really be redundant. We would really be 
leveraging all our joint, very unique, and distinct expertise 
to bring so much additional effort and fight against these 
cartels.
    Title 21 would bring, it does easily bring 10,000 trained 
law enforcement professionals between my HSI criminal 
investigators and our task force officers, immediately, 10,000 
more trained law enforcement professionals to the fight against 
fentanyl, at no cost to the U.S. Government or the American 
people.
    Mr. Nadler. No cost? What additional resources or support 
would be necessary for HSI to effectively exercise Title 21 
authority, and how would HSI plan to manage these resources 
effectively?
    Ms. Berger. I'm sorry, sir?
    Mr. Nadler. What additional resources or support would be 
necessary for HSI to effectively exercise Title 21 authority, 
and how would HSI plan to manage these resources effectively?
    Ms. Berger. We wouldn't need any additional resources to 
execute this. Certainly, there would be some minimal training 
that may be involved. I don't see it being extensive.
    Mr. Nadler. OK. My last question, I also discussed in my 
opening statement the need for greater transparency and 
accountability to HSI. We know that the Attorney General's 
guidelines for domestic FBI operations govern the FBI's 
investigative authorities. Has HSI developed similar guidelines 
for its agencies? If not, why not, and are there plans to do 
so? What specific oversight mechanisms are in place to ensure 
that HSI's broad authority is exercised within the bounds of 
the law? How are these monitored, these mechanisms monitored 
and enforced? So, that's really like two questions.
    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time is expired, but you may 
answer the question, please.
    Ms. Berger. Certainly, any authorities that we have and any 
technologies that we utilize, we are very concerned with 
preserving constitutional protections, civil liberties, and 
civil rights.
    I was a public defender prior to being hired on as a 
special agent. I am very, very well aware of the rights of the 
community, the accused, and it's certainly something that's in 
the forefront of everything that we do, and we're certainly 
very transparent.
    Mr. Nadler. My question was; has HSI developed similar 
guidelines for its agents, similar to the Attorney General's 
guidelines for domestic FBI operations?
    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired.
    The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Gaetz.
    Mr. Gaetz. Thanks for being here.
    You had 16 people at Butler. My question is, did they 
participate in a morning muster meeting that day of the 
attempted assassination?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for the question. I would have to 
defer any questions as to the on-the-ground operational 
activity in Butler to the Secret Service.
    Mr. Gaetz. I'm asking about your people. Because the 
problem we're having, and Republicans and Democrats have noted, 
is we are not getting really forthright answers from the Secret 
Service in a timely way. Your agents, you had 16 people there 
and those people either participated in a morning muster 
meeting, which is the protocol to make sure everyone's on the 
same page, has the same coms, that all the duties are correctly 
assigned, and prepared to be executed.
    So, can you get back to the Committee with just a yes or no 
on whether or not they participated in that in that morning?
    Ms. Berger. Yes.
    Mr. Gaetz. OK. Good. Great.
    Mr. Gaetz. I now want to talk about Ryan Routh. Ryan Routh 
is the person who attempted to assassinate President Trump at 
his golf club in Florida. Was Ryan Routh ever referred to HSI 
for further investigation of his activities?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for the question, sir.
    I recently, just this morning, learned there was an article 
that he was, when he entered back into the country from 
overseas, CBP had contacted HSI, and I read all of the items, 
the things that he was stating, and basically, as a U.S. 
citizen returning to our country from Ukraine as a freedom 
fighter.
    Based on the information that I read, there would not have 
been any reason to immediately take him into custody. He had 
not made any threats, for instance, against the President or 
former President Trump.
    We respond, HSI responds, to port-of-entry calls, hundreds 
and hundreds of responses probably, daily. Just because a 
person isn't taken into custody immediately doesn't mean that 
they are not subject to a longer-term investigation.
    Mr. Gaetz. You can confirm just the news reporting that the 
suspected Trump attempted assassin was flagged by CBP and was 
referred to HSI? Can you confirm that?
    Ms. Berger. Yes.
    Mr. Gaetz. Yes. OK. So, it was kind of a crazy story. So, 
is it legal for someone to go recruit for a foreign military? 
Does that break any laws?
    Ms. Berger. I don't know, sir. I would have to look into 
that a little bit further.
    Mr. Gaetz. Me, too, frankly. If recruiting for a foreign 
military was somehow improper, then that would necessitate some 
need for investigation, I would think.
    Here's the story that CBP picked up when they referred it 
to HSI: They say in their memo,

        Suspect is a U.S. citizen who traveled to Kyiv, Ukraine, for 
        three months to help recruit soldiers from Afghanistan, 
        Moldova, and Taiwan to fight in the Ukrainian war against 
        Russia. Subject stated that he does not get paid for his 
        recruiting efforts and all his work for the Ukrainian 
        government is strictly volunteer work. The subject stated that 
        he obtains money from his wife to help fund his trips to 
        Ukraine.

    So, when this guy shows up with a business card, and the 
story about how he's recruiting fighters in Ukraine and his 
wife's paying for it, CBP says this is a little odd, and then, 
they send it to HSI. HSI declines to further investigate.
    What you're saying is you think, based on the facts that 
you're aware of now, that was the right decision by HSI?
    Ms. Berger. No, if I may, sir, the statements that day 
would not rise to the level to take him into immediate custody.
    Mr. Gaetz. What about just like to investigate? Because 
sometimes investigations proceed without a subject being taken 
into custody.
    Ms. Berger. These are longer-term investigations. We are 
actively participating with Secret Service and FBI, in fact--
    Mr. Gaetz. No, no, I'm talking about at this point in time, 
though. Here's what you've got to answer for me: When CBP 
refers this to HSI, what I believe happened is HSI declined, 
not only to incarcerate this person, but to further investigate 
the person. Are you saying that they declined to investigate or 
that that investigation went forward, and the attempted 
assassination occurred during the pendency of that 
investigation?
    Ms. Berger. I would have to look into that a little bit 
further, sir. I'll get back to you on that.
    Mr. Gaetz. Yes, I think that's going to be a really 
important second thing for you to get back to us on, is whether 
or not HSI made an active decision in real time to decline 
further investigation of this person.
    Frankly, this isn't someone who was jaywalking. He tried to 
kill the leading, they tried to kill the leading Republican 
candidate for President and the former President of the United 
States. So, I really think it's important to get those answers.
    Mr. Gaetz. I thank you for being here. Thank you for all 
the good work of your agency.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
    I now, for just a moment of housekeeping, yield a minute to 
the Ranking Member of the whole Committee, Mr. Nadler, for just 
one moment.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Chair, I just want to note the presence and welcome the 
newest Member of the Subcommittee, Chuy Garcia of Chicago. 
Tomorrow, at the Full Committee markup, I will have a more 
formal and more fulsome introduction.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Nadler. Welcome, Representative 
Garcia.
    The Chair now recognizes Representative Dean for her five 
minutes.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you, Chair Biggs, Ranking Member McBath, 
for holding this important hearing. Welcome, Chuy.
    Director Berger, I hope you will convey my thanks to the 
more than 10,000 employees who you oversee and who are on the 
front lines of critical issues that you have been discussing, 
we have been discussing, like drug trafficking, child sexual 
exploitation, national security--just to name a few.
    It is September. It is Recovery Month. I have a son who is 
more than 11 years in recovery, and yet, I have friends who 
have lost sons and daughters to fentanyl poisoning, to 
overdose.
    The crisis is extraordinary. I want to know from you, from 
the front lines, what you are seeing. We know that, for 
example, last year more than 80,000 people died of opioid 
overdose; more than 108,000 people died of drug overdose, but 
80,000 of opioid overdose. That is almost twice the number of 
people who die in car crashes in a single year. It's a 
staggering number.
    So, on the issue of fentanyl and drug trafficking, how does 
HSI engage with communities and stakeholders affected by drug 
trafficking? How do you measure success around the seizure and 
the reduction of fentanyl coming into our communities?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for the question.
    I agree, hundreds of thousands of people are dying and it's 
an epidemic that HSI is, brings a lot of our authorities to 
that fight against the fentanyl epidemic.
    We work with communities. We work with locally, with our 
BEST, our Border Enforcement Security Task Forces; with State, 
local, Tribal officials, to further investigations into the 
criminal organizations that are bringing this poison into our 
communities.
    We work beyond our borders with our attache offices and our 
Transnational Criminal Investigative Units in other countries 
to start targeting shipments of precursor chemicals and 
fentanyl-producing equipment, such as pill presses that are 
exported predominantly from China into Mexico. We have TCIUs 
that work, Transnational Criminal Investigative Units, vetted 
foreign law enforcement partners that work closely with our 
personnel and our attaches' office to--
    Ms. Dean. Can I ask you about the precursor chemicals and 
the pill presses coming largely from China? Isn't it true that 
many of those touch down in the United States before going to 
airports in the United States before going to Mexico?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, ma'am, and we are working with CBP to 
target those shipments and seize both the equipment and the 
precursor chemicals. We work as well with our industry 
partners, companies that import the precursor chemicals, our 
Know Your Partner campaign, so that they know to recognize any 
anomalies in shipments or importers, and that things just don't 
look right. So that they know to report those instances to law 
enforcement.
    Also, it helps us to see trends, like what's really going 
on? If there are shifts in trends, we are better able to 
devise/investigate the strategies to attack.
    Ms. Dean. Can you identify a success? So that people, 
families who are worried about this, like my own--what 
successes are you having and what challenges are you having?
    Ms. Berger. We continue to seize a great deal of fentanyl 
and precursor chemicals and equipment, and the fentanyl-making 
equipment. Our seizures have gone up increasingly over the last 
several years.
    We've increased the number of our Border Enforcement 
Security Task Forces to better combat this problem in our 
communities. Embedded within our BEST teams are FAST teams, 
Fentanyl Abatement and Suppression Teams, as well as FORTs, 
which are Fentanyl Overdose Recovery Teams, to better focus and 
leverage our authorities against the fentanyl problem directly.
    Ms. Dean. Let me shift briefly in the time I have left. 
Could you give us an update on your work in helping identify/
find child victims and survivors of sexual exploitation?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for the question. We take leads from 
any source. If someone has information about a child victim, a 
victim of child sexual abuse or human trafficking, we welcome 
those, those leads and rely on them heavily to advance our 
investigations.
    Ms. Dean. What role does AI play in identifying victims?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for the question regarding AI. We 
hear a lot about it in the news. There are some very valid uses 
that we have for AI, and we are having tremendous success with 
the identification of child victims in sexual exploitations 
material.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you. I apologize and I yield back.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you, Director.
    Mr. Biggs. The Chair, the Chair recognizes now the 
gentleman from Texas, Mr. Nehls.
    Mr. Nehls. Thank you, sir. Ma'am, thank you for being here.
    I think Ms. Dean said it. We have people dying of fentanyl, 
drug trafficking, a serious issue in our country. As an old 
sheriff, we dealt with it in our county when I was a sheriff.
    I was listening to what the Chair of the Full Committee 
said a few minutes ago about Butler, you having 16 agents 
there. Then, I hear the Chair of this Subcommittee talking 
about it. So, you have 7,100 agents. What is your staffing? You 
maybe have 7,100 in funding, but how many do you actually have? 
What's your--do you know what that number would be? Are you 
staffed at 90-95 percent?
    Ms. Berger. I have it in here.
    Mr. Nehls. All right. Well, maybe somebody behind you can 
answer that.
    This is the issue I have. So, the U.N. General Assembly, 
did you say you're sending 1,200 of your agents up there?
    Ms. Berger. That's correct, sir.
    Mr. Nehls. Twelve hundred. So, when you find out the 
number--let's say you have got 7,000, 6,800, whatever that 
number--so you are going to send 1,200. So, 25 percent of your 
workforce is going to go to, is it New York, for a couple of 
weeks? Is that the assignment to augment or supplement the 
Secret Service?
    Ms. Berger. That's correct.
    Mr. Nehls. Do you ever just raise your hand or just stop 
and say I can't send you 1,200 agents? What the hell am I going 
to do that for? We have got a border--we are losing 100,000 
people to drug trafficking, the sex trafficking, and everything 
taking place. You are up there at the U.N. with 25 percent of 
your workforce. Do you ever say that is not--I am looking at 
your mission statement. The mission of HSI is to investigate, 
disrupt, and dismantle TCOs, which are transnational criminal 
organizations, and national security threats seeking to exploit 
the customs and immigration laws of the United States.
    Now, so I don't know--how many human smuggling cases do you 
anticipate investigating at the U.N.?
    Ms. Berger. Support to Secret Service is an--
    Mr. Nehls. That is not the question. How many human 
smuggling cases? That is one of your missions. You aren't going 
to investigate any of those at the U.N. Do we consider how many 
transnational criminal organizations do you anticipate 
investigating at the U.N. Assembly, unless we consider the U.N. 
a transnational criminal organization?
    The point I am trying to make is as a leader do you ever 
say you are taking 25 percent of my workforce--and I don't 
think--quite honestly you must not really be very well-
respected by the FBI. I say that because if the FBI--the lead 
investigator at Butler never even contacted any of your 16 
agents. You may just be filling a gap. That would be insulting, 
in my opinion, if the FBI--you have 16 people there to 
supplement, augment, whatever, and what were you doing? Were 
you out in the parking lot with a road guard vest and a wand?
    I think you need to focus on what your true mission is, and 
that the mission at hand is to try to prevent the deaths of 
fentanyl and these organizations of sex trafficking coming in, 
but apparently you are everywhere else. You, quote,

        1,000 Americans died from drug overdoses with fentanyl and 
        other synthetic opioids responsible for two-thirds of these 
        deaths in a 12-month period in 2024.

Yet, oh, don't worry about. We are going to send 25 percent of 
your workforce up to New York for a couple of weeks.
    We are losing too many people. Forty-one thousand pounds of 
fentanyl seized in 2023. How much do you think gets through 
that is not detected? How much fentanyl would you estimate gets 
smuggled that goes undetected?
    Ms. Berger. I can't answer that, sir.
    Mr. Nehls. Bunches, I am sure. Houston, I represent Texas, 
604 people died in 2023 of fentanyl poisoning, but, OK, let's 
send 25 percent of them up there to New York. Don't worry about 
it. We will put the health and welfare of the American people 
last.
    We have got a problem on our hands and our government now 
spends billions of dollars to combat the problem President 
Biden created in day one of his administration. Hard to fathom 
my colleagues on the left would want to take resources away 
from our brave law enforcement.
    There is a poster I have where it is Kamala Harris. She is 
the leader of the Democrat Party. In 2019, an ACLU candidate 
questionnaire she quoted, ``As president, I will fight to pass 
my Detention Oversight Not Expansion Act into law, which would 
increase oversight of ICE detention beds, slash detention by 50 
percent''--50 percent detention beds--``and halt funding for 
the construction or expansion of new facilities.''
    How do you feel that? Do we need to fund--how do you feel 
about that when you hear calls for abolishing or significantly 
cutting ICE funding and what impact would that have on you, on 
HSI?
    Ms. Berger. I defer any questions regarding detention 
facilities to ERO.
    Mr. Nehls. Yes. Kamala Harris, you did this to the American 
people. Joe Biden, you have put the American people last.
    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time is expired.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. 
Cohen.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Fentanyl is a problem. Do you have any idea what percentage 
of fentanyl comes into this country through trucks coming from 
South America, airplanes coming from other countries, or by 
immigrants bringing it in their purses?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for the question, sir. I don't have 
any breakdown, but we can work on that and get you some 
followup information.
    Mr. Cohen. Do you have any idea at all? Does most of it 
come by one way or another? Does it come by trucks coming in, 
or by people coming in, or by airplanes, or what?
    Ms. Berger. It's coming in various ways: Trucks and 
consignment hubs. Really, I'd be a lot more comfortable getting 
back to you with some definitive information as to--if we can 
put some figures to that. It would be much more--I want to give 
you accurate information.
    Mr. Cohen. I don't need it to the exact number. I just want 
a ballpark figure. Can you give me a guess? What is your best 
estimate? Which is the most likely source?
    Ms. Berger. Again, sir, I don't want to guess.
    Mr. Cohen. I don't want you to guess. I want to use your 
information to give me your opinion based on your history of 
knowing where fentanyl comes from.
    Ms. Berger. I can't say, sir. I'm sorry.
    Mr. Cohen. All right. That is ridiculous, but I will let it 
go. Women that have been brought into this country for sex 
slaves, where do they mostly come in from? Walk in from the 
border, come in on airplanes from Europe, come in by trucks, or 
where?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for that question, sir. Human 
trafficking and sex trafficking is a very important part of our 
portfolio. Sex trafficking victims are not necessarily--they 
can be foreign nationals, but they can also be U.S. citizens. 
It's not a crime against the border. It's a crime against the 
person. So, many of the sex trafficking victims that we 
encounter are U.S. citizens.
    There are trafficking victims that come in from foreign 
countries as well. Labor trafficking is another very serious 
crime that we investigate.
    Mr. Cohen. How do the human trafficked people come into our 
country, the ones that aren't born here?
    Ms. Berger. They can come in various ways, through--
    Mr. Cohen. What is the main way they come in?
    Ms. Berger. They can come in across our land border, ports 
of entry. They can come in on--
    Mr. Cohen. Well, I understand that. They can parachute in 
from a Chinese balloon, but what is the main way they come in?
    Ms. Berger. I would say the land border, sir.
    Mr. Cohen. They come in through the land borders? Do you 
think they come in on foot, in trucks, or in vans?
    Ms. Berger. Again, sir, I don't have specific statistics 
for you. I can get back to you with that information, however.
    Mr. Cohen. Do you work with companies like FedEx on trying 
to ferret out importation of drugs?
    Ms. Berger. Correct, sir, and other contraband.
    Mr. Cohen. Do you have agents at FedEx in Memphis at their 
hub?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, sir, we do.
    Mr. Cohen. Do you all do a good job of inspecting packages 
that may be suspect to ferret out drugs?
    Ms. Berger. We work collaboratively with CBP and our other 
partners to target. There's a large volume of parcels and 
shipments that come in, but we target extensively to better 
identify suspect packages and take contraband off the streets.
    Mr. Cohen. Do you do the same thing with UPS?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Cohen. With USPS?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Cohen. Senator Scott, I understand, put in a bill or 
said he was going to put in a bill to require that Secret 
Service protection be the same for former Presidents as they 
are for current Presidents. Does it make any sense whatsoever 
for Jimmy Carter to have the same number of Secret Service 
agents as Mr. Trump?
    Ms. Berger. I'd have to defer that to Secret Service, sir. 
That's really a question for them.
    Mr. Cohen. No, it is a question for you. I am asking you. A 
man who is 100 years old, infirm, in a bed, can hardly get up. 
Does he need Secret Service protection to the extent as Mr. 
Trump who plays golf, goes around and speaks, and President 
Biden who goes around and speaks?
    Ms. Berger. I wouldn't like to make judgments--
    Mr. Cohen. I yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman yields.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. 
Moore.
    Mr. Moore. Ms. Berger, thank you so much for being here 
today. Obviously, the Southern border has been in the headlines 
a great deal, and kind to followup on what my colleague was 
asking, when we went to the border--I talk about this all the 
time, that the people coming from South of the border are 
dealing with a cartel. They are paying money to cross the 
Southern border.
    One of the most eye-opening things--just South of the 
border, this is months ago prior to all the inflation, but it 
was $4,000-$5,000 they would pay the cartel and they would 
smuggle them into our country. If they were further South, it 
was $8,000-$9,000. I think Syrians were paying about $18,000-
$19,000. I don't remember what the Russians were paying, but 
the thing is, when I went with Mr. Biggs and he took us down to 
the border, one of the things that I found was fascinating, 
some of those people didn't have the money to pay the cartel, 
but they put on carpet shoes so they wouldn't have footprints, 
and they would backpack heroin, cocaine, and fentanyl across 
that border as a way to pay their passage to the cartel. Then, 
I guess the drugs would be delivered once they crossed the 
border to some distributor or whatever the case might be.
    Not exactly sure what happened after they got into the 
country, but fentanyl is certainly an issue. I think 110,000 
people died last year, maybe 109,000 depending on who you ask. 
I actually attended a funeral Monday and I come from a fairly 
small town and this young man graduated with my daughter. I am 
attending a lot of these funerals. We are losing these young 
people. Think they are buying a Xanax. I think this particular 
kid actually used one of those vape pods and it was laced with 
fentanyl.
    So, as we move forward why are we losing the battle to save 
our young people in America with fentanyl, and what can we do 
to help you do the job and what do you see as the issues that 
keep you awake at night?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you, sir, for the question. Certainly, 
the fentanyl epidemic does keep me awake at night. We dedicate 
a lot of resources governmentwide to combat these organizations 
bringing fentanyl into our communities.
    Again, I spoke previously about Title 21 authority. Many of 
these poly-criminal--these are poly-criminal organizations that 
are not just trafficking and smuggling fentanyl into the 
country, but they're also using other types of crimes: Human 
smuggling, human trafficking, and weapons trafficking. They're 
using the same routes, the same money laundering mechanisms.
    HSIs and agency investigates all these types of crimes. We 
have extensive expertise with these areas of crime. Continued 
partnership with DEA and Title 21 authority for us so that we 
can investigate fully these poly-criminal organizations would 
help us, give us another tool in our toolbox to help dismantle 
these poly-criminal organizations that are bringing this poison 
into our communities.
    Mr. Moore. So, Director Berger, you said that--or somebody 
had mentioned in the questioning that a lot of the raw 
materials for fentanyl actually land in the U.S., and then they 
go to Mexico. When they go to Mexico are they shipping them in 
trucks or planes, or a little bit of both? How are they going 
back across to make the actual product that comes across in the 
backpacks that we see?
    Ms. Berger. Predominantly the chemicals are going directly 
into Mexico. There is some diversion out of the legitimate 
supply chain where chemicals enter and then are transported 
back into Mexico. Predominantly however the chemicals are 
coming directly from China into Mexico.
    Mr. Moore. So, to get to the causation, what do you think 
immediately we can do? I understand you need more resources, 
and we need more investigation, and this is a trans-global 
whatever crime syndicate, whatever you want to call it, but 
what immediately--why are we seeing such a spike? What is going 
on and what could we do as Congress immediately to put a halt 
to some of this? What do you see we need to do? I get tired 
of--to apologizing--or for apologizing to these families for 
losing these children.
    Ms. Berger. Sir, what we've historically been doing to 
combat fentanyl it's just not working, and we need to look at 
this problem differently and really change the way we're doing 
business. The criminal cartels, criminal organizations have 
changed the way they do business, and we need to be nimble and 
be able to effectively hit them back hard with all the 
authorities that we have. HSI has those authorities. Title 21, 
as I said, would bring 10,000 more investigators to this fight 
at no cost to the U.S. Government.
    Mr. Moore. Well, yes, I want to segue really quick. I got 
about 15 seconds. You said there were 16 agents in Butler 
County, Pennsylvania, the day that the assassination attempt on 
President Trump happened. I guess it was the 13th. What 
specific training is provided to those agents that are 
assisting Secret Service?
    Ms. Berger. I'm out of time. Would you like me to--
    Mr. Biggs. Yes, the gentleman's time is expired, but you 
may answer the question, Director.
    Ms. Berger. Our workforce are highly trained Federal law 
enforcement professionals. We go through six months of training 
at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, 
Georgia. All our agents go through continuing training 
throughout their service with the agency. In addition to that 
there is a virtual training that agents complete prior to their 
deployment on a Secret Service detail, but that deals--
    Mr. Moore. It is a virtual training though, not--
    Ms. Berger. It is a virtual training.
    Mr. Moore. OK. I will yield back, Mr. Chair. I apologize.
    Mr. Biggs. All right. I accept your apology.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. 
Johnson.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Ms. Berger, thank you so much for your testimony and also 
for the excellent work that you do along with your 8,700 
colleagues that keep America safe every day and I particularly 
commend you for your previous work as--you were in HSI Atlanta 
for a second. I appreciate that.
    Ma'am, cryptocurrency allows for secrecy and impunity in 
financial transactions, isn't that correct?
    Ms. Berger. Correct, sir.
    Mr. Johnson. The use of cryptocurrency by international 
criminals creates unique challenges to our national security, 
is that correct?
    Ms. Berger. I would agree with that.
    Mr. Johnson. The use of crypto in the global financial 
system continues to grow and criminal actors are increasingly 
using cryptocurrency to facilitate their criminal activities. 
Is that correct?
    Ms. Berger. Among other different techniques as well.
    Mr. Johnson. The criminal activities that are being 
facilitated by the use of crypto include drug trafficking?
    Ms. Berger. Correct, sir.
    Mr. Johnson. Illegal gun trafficking?
    Ms. Berger. Correct.
    Mr. Johnson. International child exploitation?
    Ms. Berger. Correct.
    Mr. Johnson. Human trafficking?
    Ms. Berger. Correct.
    Mr. Johnson. Financial scams and financial fraud?
    Ms. Berger. I think all sorts of criminal activity can be 
facilitated by cryptocurrency transactions.
    Mr. Johnson. Criminals prefer cryptocurrency because it 
enables them to generate wealth while avoiding transparency 
required under traditional banking structures, which are well-
regulated by U.S. law, correct?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Johnson. International criminals use cryptocurrency to 
secretly move illicit financial proceeds across international 
boundaries including to places like Russia and North Korea, 
correct?
    Ms. Berger. I would assume so, yes.
    Mr. Johnson. You are aware of the fact that just this 
past--it was Sunday night or Monday night Donald Trump rolled 
out his new cryptocurrency company, World Liberty Financial?
    Ms. Berger. No, sir, I wasn't aware of that.
    Mr. Johnson. Yo were not aware of that?
    Ms. Berger. No, sir.
    Mr. Johnson. Well, it was a big thing. I think he rolled it 
out on Elon Musk's platform formerly known as Twitter. His 
sons, Don Jr. and Eric, were placed in charge of it. I think 
Barron Trump, young 20-year-old college student, has something 
to do with it as well. A whiz kid, they are calling him, about 
cryptocurrency.
    What are the implications of a man who has been convicted 
of 34 counts of financial fraud, facing three--facing four--or 
three additional indictments alleging criminal activity getting 
his hands on the levers of power over our international--
national security criminal law investigations like the ones 
that your agency is responsible for conducting? What are the 
implications of that?
    Ms. Berger. I'm not a cryptocurrency expert. I know that 
all cryptocurrency is not illegal, the use of it. I think I'm a 
little long in the tooth for cryptocurrency, quite frankly. I 
can't really speak to that. I don't have enough information 
about that, sir.
    Mr. Johnson. Well, I am concerned about it, and I know that 
perhaps there might be some colleagues on the other side of the 
aisle who might be concerned about it as well.
    In addition to cryptocurrency there are other emerging 
threats. What proactive measures does HSI take when it comes to 
emerging threats like cryptocurrency and the use of 
cryptocurrency to facilitate crime, international crime?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for that question. Certainly, like to 
highlight our Cross-Border Financial Crime Center, which 
leverages our relationships with our partners as well as 
banking and financial industries to look at various emerging 
trends with money laundering, and other schemes that criminal 
organizations are using to launder their illicit finances.
    Mr. Johnson. A President of the United States--
    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time is expired.
    I recognize now the gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Garcia.
    I welcome you to the Committee, Mr. Garcia.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Chair Biggs. It is an honor to join 
the Judiciary Committee.
    Thank you, Ms. Berger, for your service and those of all 
your personnel.
    As we have discussed, HSI is interpreting its authority in 
an overly broad manner, in my opinion, and it continues to 
expand. This can spill over into jurisdictions of other Federal 
agencies and where HSI has little or no documented experience 
and lead to government surveillance without any suspicion or 
wrongdoing.
    These broad surveillance powers are of concerns to many of 
the communities represented in this room, certainly mine. That 
fear is acute in a district like mine. Most of my constituent 
are Latino and one-third are foreign born, groups that studies 
show have been particularly impacted by HSI's unwarranted 
surveillance.
    So, my first question is what steps if any has HSI taken to 
address revelations that it abused authority leading to the 
surveillance of thousands of personal financial transactions?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for the question, sir. I'm not 
familiar--I'm not sure I'm tracking specifically what you're 
asking about. We don't engage in unwarranted surveillance. If 
we are conducting surveillance on individuals, it's because 
they are subjects of active investigations. I don't know if 
it's related to--again I'm speaking to HSI. I'm not speaking to 
civil immigration-related enforcement operations. I'm speaking 
as to the criminal activities that we would be conducting 
surveillance on individuals.
    Mr. Garcia. Well, I would appreciate if you would get back 
to me because this was reported in various news outlets over 
the past couple of years and there is a growing concern about 
it. So, if you could do a little bit of research on that, I 
would appreciate it.
    Really quick, changing gears, there is another area where 
HSI takes an inappropriately expansive view of its role, and 
that is immigration enforcement. So, just for some context 
here, although HSI's mission has more to do with transnational 
crime, it regularly involves itself in raids targeting 
undocumented workers. HSI agents themselves have advocated for 
greater distance between the two saying that involvement in 
immigration enforcement can impede important investigations.
    So, how does HSI continue to justify its immigration 
enforcement activities given those concerns and how does HSI 
promote transparency especially in sensitive operations like 
immigration enforcement?
    Ms. Berger. Thank you for the question, sir. There's a lot 
of confusion between what HSI does and what we don't do. What 
we don't do is civil immigration enforcement. We are working 
longer-term complex criminal investigations.
    Specifically, toward the questions with work site 
enforcement and raid, we've shifted our agency's posture from 
work site investigations to labor exploitation investigations. 
Our focus is on the employers that are engaging in unfair 
practices and taking advantage of especially workers and people 
who don't have a lawful immigration status, that they can be 
paid less wages, they can be subject to unsafe working 
conditions.
    We treat them rightfully so as victims. We provide victim 
services to them and really focus on the employers and help the 
victims that are being exploited in these situations to get 
services that they may need to be in a better position to help 
with the prosecution of those employers that are subjecting 
them to these unfair conditions.
    Mr. Garcia. No issue there. I think the emphasis should be 
focusing on criminal-type of activity, and certainly where 
there is financial gain to be made as a result of that 
involvement. I will be engaging with you if reports to the 
contrary surface. I look forward to further engagement. Thank 
you so much.
    I yield back, Mr. Chair.
    Ms. Berger. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman yields back. Now, I recognize 
myself for my five minutes of questioning.
    Thank you again for being here, director. So, let's talk 
Title 21 for just a second here. in a Washington Post article 
dated January 4, 2023, Secretary Mayorkas said--he indicated 
that--very clearly that he felt that Title 21 authority needed 
to be in the hands of HSI. Would you agree with his assessment 
that you should have Title 21 authority?
    Ms. Berger. Yes, sir, I agree with the Secretary 100 
percent.
    Mr. Biggs. One of the things you said, and I want to just 
emphasize this, is that if you are engaged in an investigation 
of human trafficking, for instance, and it turns out that there 
are drugs being--going with it, you are going to have to stop 
your investigation. You are not just doing some paperwork with 
DEA; you are actually negotiating with DEA a scope of authority 
that they are going to allow you to use. Is that fair?
    Ms. Berger. That's correct.
    Mr. Biggs. So, you could actually scuttle a whole 
investigation with regard to human trafficking simply because 
there are drugs involved and DEA doesn't want to let you 
proceed on. So, you could lose witnesses and opportunities to 
investigate. Is that fair?
    Ms. Berger. That's correct, sir.
    Mr. Biggs. So, I would just point out to the Committee that 
Rep. Higgins has introduced 5713. It is a bipartisan piece of 
legislation that would actually grant them--HSI Title 21 
authority. I am on it. Rep. Moore is on it. Rep. Luis Correa is 
on it. I think that is something we should consider.
    I want to go to something else that has been raised as well 
today and I want to see if we can--make sure we clear this up. 
When you deploy--like in this got 1,200 going to UNGA. I don't 
know how many other agents you have in the field that are going 
to other protective details right now, but when you get 1,200-
1,500 agents off, you are having to divert from what is the 
true mission of HSI. Is that fair to say?
    Ms. Berger. That's fair to say.
    Mr. Biggs. So, my question ultimately becomes this: How do 
those assignments get--are those coming down from the 
Secretary? It is implied that maybe you raise your hand and 
volunteer. I have this sneaking suspicion that you are not 
raising your hand volunteering and saying take 20 percent of my 
workforce right off the top.
    Ms. Berger. No, sir, I'm not. Thank you for the opportunity 
to elaborate a little bit more on that.
    Historically we have supported Secret Service, CBP, other 
components within DHS in their mission. It's not optimal, but 
they are a fellow agency within the department, and we will 
support them as a whole-of-government approach.
    Mr. Biggs. So, who gives you the notices like UNGA? This is 
the United Nations General Assembly. I used to do international 
and go to multilateral institutions. I have been there many 
times.
    So, my question is who determines that you need to give 
them 1,200-1,300 people to go up to UNGA?
    Ms. Berger. We try to negotiate down sometimes. With the 
current--
    Mr. Biggs. So, who tells you to say, hey, by the way, this 
is going on; we want agents? Is that coming from the 
Secretary's office?
    Ms. Berger. They send a request for assistance and we--
    Mr. Biggs. If you say no, what happens? Well, we don't want 
to know what happens. OK. We can imagine what probably happens.
    So, that is important to know. I have offered a number of 
different solutions, and we will see what we can do going 
forward. I will tell you that there were news reports right 
after Butler which indicated that--because most of the 
training--you are talking training for investigative work. You 
are not talking protective detail work that--I imagine your 
academy doesn't spend a great deal of time on protective detail 
duty in your academy.
    Ms. Berger. No, sir, we're not trained in the protective--
the close protective duties to protect the principal. We 
support Secret Service in more collateral law enforcement 
support. For example, post standing. Post standing is a large 
part of what we do with Secret Service.
    Mr. Biggs. Yes, so what we need to do is maybe get more 
people with Title 21 authority and not diverted away from their 
mission. Let's get Secret Service to do their mission.
    Last thing is that one of the Members was asking you about 
how much drug interdiction, how much human trafficking is 
coming across the border. What he was really getting at is he 
wants you to say that most of the drug that is--drugs and human 
trafficking is interdicted at POEs. Well, that may or may not 
be the case, but you are not just working at ports of entry. 
You are working all over, in the interior as well. So, please 
elaborate on that.
    Ms. Berger. Smuggling can occur at both the ports of entry, 
between the ports of entry. Can come in via the land borders, 
our sea border, and our airports. It's really a much more 
complex situation. Once the fentanyl or the contraband is in 
the Nation, then it's continued to be distributed through 
networks that these poly-criminal organizations are using to 
distribute this poison throughout our communities.
    What we do with HSI is really focus on the networks. Not 
necessarily the individual cases, but the networks that these 
organizations are using to move people, narcotics, weapons, and 
other commodities throughout the country.
    Mr. Biggs. Well, thank you. We appreciate your being here. 
I know there is some followup. You have got some action items 
left. So, we will look forward to seeing those responses.
    With that, we are adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:37 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the 
Sub-
committee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance can
be found at: https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent 
.aspx?EventID=117654.

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