[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                    THE BIDEN-HARRIS BORDER CRISIS:
                        CALIFORNIA PERSPECTIVES

=======================================================================




                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION
                               __________

                       FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 2024
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-94
                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary






              [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]






               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov              
                                ______

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

56-700                     WASHINGTON : 2024



























                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

DARRELL ISSA, California             JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking 
MATT GAETZ, Florida                    Member
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  ZOE LOFGREN, California
TOM McCLINTOCK, California           STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin               HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., 
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky                Georgia
CHIP ROY, Texas                      ADAM SCHIFF, California
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina           ERIC SWALWELL, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             TED LIEU, California
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  J. LUIS CORREA, California
BEN CLINE, Virginia                  MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota        JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  LUCY McBATH, Georgia
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
KEVIN KILEY, California              CORI BUSH, Missouri
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming             GLENN IVEY, Maryland
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               BECCA BALINT, Vermont
LAUREL LEE, Florida                  Vacancy
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
MICHAEL A. RULLI, Ohio

               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
         AARON HILLER, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
         
                                ------























                                
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                       Friday, September 6, 2024

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
The Honorable Darrell Issa, a Member of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of California.........................     1

                               WITNESSES

The Hon. Michael Hestrin, District Attorney, Riverside County, 
  California
  Oral Testimony.................................................     4
  Prepared Testimony.............................................     7
The Hon. John Minto, Mayor, Santee, California
  Oral Testimony.................................................    10
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    12
The Hon. John Franklin, Mayor, Vista, California
  Oral Testimony.................................................    14
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    16
Don Sharp, Undersheriff, Riverside County, California
  Oral Testimony.................................................    20
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    22
Cory Gautereaux, Border Security Advocate and Small Business 
  Owner
  Oral Testimony.................................................    25
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    27
Nicole Cardinale, Rancher, Dulzura, California
  Oral Testimony.................................................    36
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    38

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

All materials submitted for the record by the Committee on the 
  Judiciary are listed below.....................................    50

Materials submitted by the Honorable Andy Biggs, a Member of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Arizona, for the 
  record
    An article entitled, ``Illegal Alien MS-13 Gang Member, 
        Wanted for Murder, Found Living in Texas,'' Sept. 9, 
        2024, Breitbart
    An article entitled, ``KAMALA'S AMERICA: Violent Venezuelan 
        Mob Reportedly Beat Helpless Young Man In Dallas Parking 
        Lot, As Gunshots Are Fired,'' [Video] Sept. 3, 2024, The 
        Gateway Pundit
    Material from Telemundo.
      Not received at the time of publishing
    An article entitled, ``Kamala's Border Chaos: San Diego 
        Sector Out of Control--Illegals Arriving from Jordan, 
        China, and India,'' Sept. 3, 2024, The Gateway Pundit

 
                    THE BIDEN-HARRIS BORDER CRISIS:
                        CALIFORNIA PERSPECTIVES

                              ----------                              

                       Friday, September 6, 2024

                        House of Representatives

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9 a.m., in Santee 
City Hall, Council Chambers, 10601 Magnolia Avenue, Building 2, 
Santee, CA 92071, the Hon. Darrell Issa presiding.
    Present: Representatives Issa, Biggs, and Fitzgerald.
    Mr. Issa. The Committee will come to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess at any time. We welcome everyone here today to this 
hearing on California's perspectives of the Biden-Harris border 
crisis.
    The Chair will now recognize the gentlelady from--I am 
sorry, the gentleman for the Pledge of Allegiance.
    All. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States 
of America and to the republic for which it stands, one Nation 
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
    Mr. Issa. Somewhere in my notes it is going to say that 
this is not an audience participation type of a hearing but, 
the appropriate hurrah or hoo-rah, depending on your branch, is 
always accepted.
    I will now recognize myself for a short opening statement.
    The House Judiciary Committee has for the last two years 
gone around the country trying to gain a perspective on the 
growing crisis.
    In each location whether it is Texas, Arizona, all the way 
up in Ohio, Maine, or here on the border of California we have 
sought to find individuals who will understand and who are 
impacted by it.
    Today we are pleased to have Mayor John Minto, the city 
manager Maureen Best, and the entire city of Santee staff at 
the hearing.
    Santee is a border community as is El Cajon, Chula Vista, 
and Alpine and many other cities in and around my district. 
They know firsthand the impact.
    We also have representatives of law enforcement not from 
the border, but the border does not end just at the line 
between Mexico and the United States.
    We are pleased to have Undersheriff Sharp who is from what 
would not be considered a border district except in Riverside 
we actually have a secondary border crossing that everyday 
deals with people who get past the first border and that number 
continues to grow.
    This hearing has the purpose to highlight the unique 
challenges we face in San Diego and, as I said, Riverside 
communities as a result of the unprecedented border crisis 
which--began in 2021 and today has displaced what would 
otherwise be openings in housing and jobs of more than 14 
million Americans.
    Illegal immigration is something that is used lightly. We 
are not using it lightly. The fact is that--among the millions 
who have come here illegally there are people legitimately 
seeking asylum.
    There are people who legitimately, more than a million a 
year, who have gone through the process to come to America 
legally.
    It is our goal to restore the rule of law and to in fact 
recognize that we can have immigration in our country. We can 
have prosperity for all. We can only do so if we can control 
our borders.
    Today we will also become acutely aware further of the 
impact of crime, whether it is the growth of illicit drugs 
including fentanyl or the border crime now that goes back and 
forth including the trade in human trafficking.
    This hearing will tell the truth directly from people who 
will testify as to their experience of what the difference 
between the last administration and the policies of the last 
3\1/2\ years and how they have influenced them.
    On day one of the administration halted border security. As 
a matter of fact, I was a witness four years ago to the 
administration stopping the construction of the last phases of 
the new border here, and as a result the border fence was not 
completed and even today is not completed but was not continued 
as the materials rusted and the world became aware you could 
just walk into America.
    We will try to keep decorum here. We will try to make this 
not partisan. There is no question at all there is a right 
direction and a wrong direction and it is clear we will hear 
from the testimony today that we have been going in the wrong 
direction.
    Too many stories for too long have not been told. It is the 
reason we brought people here today, and I want to note that 
none of our witnesses are in fact political appointees. None of 
our witnesses here today are per se partisans.
    We have nonpartisan mayors. We have our District Attorney. 
We have people who in fact represent people without a partisan 
persuasion and in fact whose only interest is the welfare of 
their community and the safety of that community.
    With that, I got to the right page--with that I am going to 
extend my warm welcome to everyone in the audience and thank 
you for being here. The fact is, our witnesses are just as 
important both here and around the world.
    With that, I would like to introduce our panel--
distinguished panel of witnesses.
    The Honorable Michael Hestrin has served as the District 
Attorney of Riverside County since 2015. Prior to that he was a 
line prosecutor in the District Attorney's office for over 20 
years.
    The Riverside County District Attorney's office under his 
leadership prosecutes fentanyl dealers aggressively and even 
charges them with murder if evidence supports such a charge.
    He has a bachelor's degree from the University of Arizona 
and a law degree and master's degree in Latin American Studies 
from Stanford.
    Mayor John Minto is the longtime resident of San Diego area 
and is the Mayor of our host city. As a matter of fact, I am 
sitting at his seat.
    Mayor Minto had 29 years as a San Diego Police Officer 
prior to his work--he worked at San Diego Gas and Electric. The 
Mayor was first elected to Santee City Council back in 2002 and 
has served as the Mayor for the last eight years.
    He serves on the San Diego Association of Governments and 
the League of California Cities Board of Directors.
    Mayor John Franklin is the Mayor of a city--again, a little 
further from the border--the city of Vista of which I was a 
longtime resident.
    He was first elected to the Vista City Council in 2014 and 
served--has served as Mayor since 2022. He is the owner of a 
family business, worked in the U.S. House of Representatives 
for two Members of Congress.
    Mayor Franklin holds a bachelor's degree from American 
University, and I might comment that Mayor Franklin has also 
been one of the leading innovators in how to deal with 
homelessness in and around his city and I think all of us are 
aware of his work.
    Undersheriff Don Sharp has served in the Riverside County 
Sheriff's Office since 1996 after several years in the Los 
Angeles County Sheriff's Department which, if I am correct, 
that is the largest sheriff's department in the country and now 
you have the second largest.
    He has been a Patrol Officer, a Field Training Officer, a 
member of multiple narcotics teams, a Sergeant, Chief Deputy, 
and has served as Undersheriff since 2019.
    He holds a bachelor's degree in organizational leadership 
and is a graduate of the Sherman Block Supervisorial Leadership 
Institute, and we welcome him.
    Mr. Cory Gautereaux is a founding member of the nonprofit 
G-O-
A-T--GOAT for short--an initiative which aims to combat human 
trafficking along the Mexican border through comprehensive 
intelligence gathering and strategic collaboration with local, 
State, and Federal law enforcement agencies.
    Mr. Gautereaux began his career in the United States Army 
as a UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter crew chief and door gunner--I 
might note the most dangerous position to stand in. He then 
served as a respiratory therapist before beginning his work 
with a nonprofit.
    Last, Ms. Nicole--I am going to mess this up. I know I 
would. Cardinale. Is a mother, a wife, a Navy veteran, and a 
resident here of Dulzura, California.
    She currently works in the medical field and is the Vice 
President of the Jamul Little League Board of Directors. Her 
son plays baseball, and I might note she has very valiantly 
come forward to talk to us today about direct history herself 
of growing up along the border and of what her child has faced 
just recently at the border.
    We welcome all our witnesses for appearing today. We would 
under the rules of the committee begin by asking all of you to 
rise, raise your right hand to take the oath.
    Do you solemnly swear or affirm under the penalty of 
perjury that your testimony you give today will be true and 
correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief 
so help you God?
    [All witnesses answer in the affirmative.]
    Mr. Issa. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that the 
witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
    For all of you who may not have testified before, we do 
limit opening statements to five minutes. We then try to limit 
as much as we can our questions to being questions.
    However, anything that you have done in way of a prepared 
written statement or any additional collateral information you 
want us to have will be included in the record so you can 
summarize or even go off script.
    The important thing is we want to hear from you and your 
entire testimony will be in the record.
    We will now begin with our District Attorney. I am not sure 
we have your mic on it. If you have got a green you are good.

             STATEMENT OF THE HON. MICHAEL HESTRIN

    Mr. Hestrin. There we go. Thank you.
    Chair Issa and the distinguished Committee Members, thank 
you for coming to San Diego to address important public safety 
and border security.
    My name is Mike Hestrin, and I am the elected District 
Attorney of Riverside County, serving in that role since 2015. 
Riverside County, located to the East of Los Angeles and North 
of San Diego County, is not on the U.S.-Mexico border but is 
significantly impacted by border issues, particularly drug 
trafficking and illegal immigration.
    Due to its proximity to border adjacent counties Riverside 
County is heavily affected by the movement of drugs such as 
fentanyl. Several major freeways in Riverside County are known 
as drug trafficking corridors, providing direct routes from the 
border to Southern California and beyond.
    Interstate 15, in particular, serves as a critical North-
South corridor for traffickers moving illicit drugs from the 
border area through our communities and then further on into 
the United States.
    To combat this threat law enforcement agencies like the 
Riverside County Sheriff's Department, California Highway 
Patrol, actively monitor these corridors and conduct 
interdiction operations.
    For example, on August 20th, U.S. Border Patrol agents from 
the Newton-Azrak Border Patrol station confiscated 81 pounds of 
cocaine during a traffic stop on Interstate 15 in Temecula.
    The Newton-Azrak Border Patrol station located in Murrieta, 
also in Riverside County and overseen by the San Diego sector 
patrol, reported seizing 2,437 pounds of cocaine this fiscal 
year, an increase of 300 pounds from the previous year.
    Agents also confiscated 3,627 pounds of methamphetamine, 31 
pounds of heroin, and 475 pounds of fentanyl. On a national 
level, the data from the Department of Homeland Security shows 
that fentanyl seizures have risen dramatically. In Fiscal Year 
2021, U.S. Customs and Border Protection seized over 11,000 
pounds of fentanyl, nearly double the amount seized in 2020, 
and this we are seeing all across Riverside County. Our 
seizures are going up significantly.
    Fentanyl smuggling across the U.S.-Mexico border has 
profoundly impacted Riverside County with significant 
increases, as I just said, in drug seizures.
    The State's Southern border has become a critical entry 
point for fentanyl entering the U.S., largely driven by the 
Sinaloa and Jalisco new generation cartels which dominate the 
Mexican States adjacent to California.
    Although we know the quantity of fentanyl seized, we do not 
know how much gets passed and how much gets in, but we can only 
assume that those numbers are incredibly large.
    The devastating impact of fentanyl on Riverside County is 
clear. In 2016, the county had only two fentanyl-related 
deaths. Since 2020, these deaths have increased 1,291 percent 
just in Riverside County.
    In collaboration with law enforcement agencies the District 
Attorney's office investigates every fentanyl death as a 
potential homicide. Beginning in 2021, we were the first 
District Attorney's office to file murder charges under the 
unique circumstances of charging second degree murder for a 
fentanyl-related death.
    One such case, People v. Romero, resulted in a conviction 
of second-degree murder with a sentence of 15 years to life in 
prison. Despite our efforts, fentanyl remains a pervasive 
public safety threat in Riverside County. Our office leads the 
State in these prosecutions, and we are proud to do so.
    We have more than 30 fentanyl-related homicide charges that 
we have filed since 2021. However, it is not enough to combat 
fentanyl locally after it has already entered our communities 
and causes the death and destruction of the people that live in 
Riverside County.
    Fentanyl production begins in Mexico where it is 
manufactured by Sinaloa and Jalisco cartels in covert, 
unsanitary labs. The cartels are expanding their marketing of 
fentanyl to children via social media apps.
    They produce counterfeit pills, and they are lacing all 
other drugs in Riverside County with fentanyl. In 2021, four 
out of ten illicit drugs--pills, excuse me--found on our 
streets contained fentanyl. That number has now risen to seven 
out of ten.
    The Mexican drug cartels recently attempted a public 
relations campaign by calling for a ban on fentanyl in Mexico 
including hanging banners in Sonora and Baja, California.
    However, this is merely a distraction tactic. Ongoing 
seizures and fentanyl-related deaths show that production and 
trafficking of fentanyl into our country and into our county 
has not ceased. It has not diminished.
    The failure to control the illegal border crossings and 
address the influx of fentanyl into the U.S. is taking a 
devastating toll on people of Riverside County. We urgently 
need comprehensive and tough Federal action and robust 
initiatives to address this issue effectively.
    We need stronger border policies, enhanced law enforcement, 
and other measures that are essential to curbing fentanyl 
trafficking which is fueling a crisis across the country and 
certainly in Riverside County.
    This fight cannot be waged by local officials alone. We 
need resources and enforcement at the border to stop this 
lethal threat before it reaches our communities, before it 
takes its toll on our
people.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of the Hon. Hestrin follows:]
    
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    
    Mr. Issa. Thank you.
    Mayor Minto?

                STATEMENT OF THE HON. JOHN MINTO

    Mr. Minto. Good morning, Chair.
    Mr. Issa. Same thing, and this is your courtroom.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Minto. I wanted to see if you were paying attention, 
sir.
    Good morning, Chair and the Committee Members. Welcome to 
the city of Santee. We appreciate this opportunity for the 
Committee to hear our region's concerns.
    The Biden-Harris Administration approach to border security 
and immigration has significantly impacted California with San 
Diego County at the forefront of these challenges.
    Between September 2023 and May 2024, San Diego County 
received between 125,000 and 154,000 street releases of 
migrants. Many were placed on a trolley and sent and released 
into East County.
    These numbers are based on daily reports to the county's 
Economic Development Government Affairs office. These 
unofficial figures underscore the unprecedented and grave scale 
of the region's border crisis.
    The influx of migrants has strained local resources 
including overcrowding at local hospitals, prompting San Diego 
County officials to respond with a coordinated effort involving 
Federal, State, and regional support.
    In response, the San Diego County Board of Supervisors 
allocated $6 million in Federal American Rescue Act funding to 
establish a migrant center processing in San Diego.
    This center, which operated from October 2023-February 
2024, served as a temporary and stopgap solution to help manage 
the influx of migrants and mitigate the impact on local 
communities.
    During its operation the center processed over 80,000 
individuals of whom 99 percent continued their journey to 
reunite with sponsors throughout the United States. The 
services provided at the center were critical in facilitating 
onward travel.
    They included translation assistance, transportation 
services, and access to communication tools and WiFi to connect 
with U.S. sponsors. The temporary center was instrumental in 
providing much needed support to individuals released by 
Customs and Border Protection. It helped reduce the number of 
street releases directly into local communities, alleviating 
some of the immediate pressure on public safety and community 
resources.
    However, the center's closure in February 2024 left San 
Diego County in dire need of more sustainable long-term 
solutions to manage the migrants, underscoring the critical 
importance of strategic planning and foresight.
    To address these ongoing crises our region secured a $19.6 
million grant from FEMA to support its response to the migrant 
influx. This funding is in addition to $19 million already 
granted to Catholic Charities, reflecting the critical need for 
resources to handle the situation effectively.
    The funds are being used to establish a migrant transit day 
center operated by Jewish Family Services. The center will 
offer essential services to migrants released from the 
Department of Homeland Security custody.
    The services will provide and include temporary shelter, 
legal assistance, travel coordination, and other forms of 
support to facilitate safe and organized transitions for 
migrants as they continue their journey in the United States.
    The situation underscores the urgent need for a 
comprehensive long-term strategy with improved coordination 
between Federal, State, local governments, and nonprofit 
organizations. I hope this emphasis on urgency demonstrates the 
gravity of the situation.
    So, in conclusion, San Diego County's response to the 
border crisis highlights the critical role that local 
governments play in addressing the challenges associated with 
increased immigration.
    County supervisors, mayors, and city councils continue to 
work together in efforts to provide essential services and 
support migrants, demonstrating a strong commitment to 
humanitarian assistance and public safety.
    I want to reassure you that the region is dedicated to 
moving forward. Our success relies on continued collaboration 
and adequate funding. San Diego County remains resilient in the 
face of these challenges.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Minto follows:]
    
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    
    Mr. Issa. Thank you, Mayor.
    We now go to Mayor Franklin, and I want to note thank you 
so much for being with us yesterday to see the fentanyl and 
drug locker. You and the minority leader were very helpful to 
be in attendance.
    Thank you. You may proceed.

              STATEMENT OF THE HON. JOHN FRANKLIN

    Mr. Franklin. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and Members of the 
Committee. That was, indeed, informative and educational to see 
an entire warehouse full of seizures as part of the regular 
drug traffic coming across our border.
    My name is John Franklin. I am the Mayor of the city of 
Vista in Northern San Diego County. Vista is known as the 
climatic wonderland. It is a beautiful city with middle-class 
and working-class families.
    We are also a community made up overwhelmingly of 
immigrants. Fifty percent of the people in my city are of 
Latino or Hispanic origin, nearly a third speak Spanish, and 13 
percent speak only Spanish.
    I believe that America is and must always remain a beacon 
of hope for immigrants from all around the world. We honor our 
immigrant heritage, and we welcome those who come to our 
country to contribute to our society.
    We recognize our obligation to mankind to provide safe 
harbor for those who are persecuted in their home countries and 
have legitimate asylum claims. I fully support those who come 
here lawfully.
    The United States of America affords more opportunities for 
lawful immigration than the rest of the Nations of the world 
combined. We also have a right to expect that the persons in 
our society abide by our laws.
    The President is required by the Constitution to take care 
to faithfully execute the laws. Unfortunately, President Biden 
and Vice President Harris have decided to ignore our border and 
immigration laws, and I want to tell you today what the Biden-
Harris open border has done to my community.
    The San Diego County medical examiner reported recently 
1,203 people died last year of drug overdose. That is double 
the rate from just a few years ago. Fentanyl is being smuggled 
across our border by the drug cartels every single day, yet the 
administration refuses to take decisive action.
    One of these victims was my own friend's son. He died 
taking what he thought was Adderall. He bought it from a dealer 
whose product has certainly killed others.
    We are also dealing with high rates of crime. Statistics on 
crimes committed by illegal immigrants in California are not 
available because, unlike in Texas, California State 
policymakers refuse to allow our local law enforcement to 
collect these data.
    Over 441,000 criminal noncitizens were booked into Texas 
jails in recent years including more than 542,000 criminal 
offenses recorded by noncitizen criminals.
    Those included a thousand homicide charges, 69,000 assault 
charges, 9,700 for burglary, 63,000 for drug charges, 1,200 for 
kidnapping, 27,000 for theft, 42,000 for obstruction of police 
activities, 3,000 for robbery, 6,800 for sexual assault, 7,800 
for sexual offenses, and 6,600 for weapons charges.
    The San Diego border sector receives approximately 20-26 
percent of the traffic that the Texas sector does so we can 
extrapolate that tens of thousands of crimes are committed in 
our community, the same as in Texas, that would not have 
occurred if we had a secure border.
    In Vista I organized an antiretail theft task force to 
address the epidemic of shoplifting that we are facing in our 
community. As we arrested shoplifters and we discovered that 
these are not people in need.
    These are people who are part of organized criminal 
organizations. They are stealing compact valuables that they 
can easily convert to cash. Several of the stores in my 
community, including some grocery stores and drugstores, have 
been forced to close in the last couple of years, creating food 
deserts in working class communities.
    Another impact of the open border--illegal workers are 
driving down the wages of American citizens. They take jobs 
often that pay below market rate and work without the 
protection of our U.S. labor laws.
    I want to make a point that illegal labor is unfair to our 
American workers, and it is also unfair to illegal laborers. I 
have toured our open and porous border numerous times in recent 
years and I have watched with puzzlement when the Biden-Harris 
Administration took office as the prefabricated sections of the 
border fence remained on the ground and rusted and laid to 
waste after President Biden and Vice President Harris refused 
to complete the fence, leaving some 37 holes in the San Diego 
border sector through which, as you saw on your tour yesterday, 
people walk through every day by the thousands.
    I have seen, as you probably saw yesterday, the discarded 
ladders, and so when we talk about people buying a taller 
ladder to climb over that fence, I hear that, but I also hear 
from U.S. Border Patrol agents directly that the fence as a 
wall is a force multiplier, allowing just several agents to 
patrol a mile of walled border where hundreds are required to 
patrol a mile of open border.
    A Nation without borders is no Nation at all. We must 
always be a Nation that honors our heritage as a land of 
immigrants but also one that expects everyone in our society, 
including newcomers, to abide by our laws equally.
    I call today on President Biden and Vice President Harris 
to enforce and uphold our border, to secure our border, and 
enforce our laws for the safety of our community.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of the Hon. Franklin follows:]
    
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    
    Mr. Issa. Thank you.
    Sheriff Sharp?

                STATEMENT OF THE HON. DON SHARP

    Mr. Sharp. Good morning, Honorable Chair Issa and the 
Members of the Committee.
    As Undersheriff of Riverside County, the fourth largest 
county in the State and tenth largest county by population in 
the United States serving more than 2.5 million residents, our 
agency covers this expansive region with a staff of over 4,100 
who are dedicated to serving citizens of the communities with 
integrity and professionalism.
    Riverside County neighbors the border counties in 
California. We are a major artery of highways utilized by 
cartels and other bad actors to facilitate the trafficking of 
narcotics and human smuggling to other major cities and 
criminal hubs across the State and Nation.
    In Riverside County alone our narcotics investigation unit 
seized 359 pounds of fentanyl and over 2.3 million fentanyl 
pills in 2023. This does not cover other multiagency task 
forces or other police agencies in the county.
    This is a staggering statistic of poison seized. What did 
we miss? We know we missed plenty. The current border crisis 
sanctioned by this administration has impacted all areas of the 
country. I spent over 10 years of my career in the assignment 
of narcotics enforcement.
    Our communities today are facing an unbelievable flow of 
fentanyl and fentanyl-laced drugs to suppliers, dealers, and 
tragically, addicted individuals.
    Our deputies and emergency response personnel respond to 
dozens of overdoses and overdose fatalities daily. The flood of 
deadly fentanyl to our streets is overwhelming and only made 
possible by complete border security failures under the current 
administration.
    I frequently must answer questions as to what we in law 
enforcement are doing to combat this fentanyl epidemic. I have 
toured the border and spoken to my U.S. Border Patrol partners.
    They are overwhelmed by the task of dealing with illegal 
migrants flooding our border. They have had to abandon their 
normal duties of protecting our borders from criminal 
smuggling; instead, babysitting the flood of unvetted migrants 
knocking down our doors.
    I have always known in working narcotics and analyzing 
cartel actions that the price of drugs goes down and the 
shipments across the border grow larger with weak border 
protection.
    When our Border Patrol agents are diverted from their 
proper duties and the border is wide open there will always be 
larger drug and human smuggling loads. The risk of detection 
and loss of illicit contraband becomes less and the shrinking 
risk easily worth the reward of cartels and criminals.
    When border security is strong and robust we see smaller 
loads and more fearful cartels, as they should be when breaking 
our laws and harming society.
    The problem must be corrected immediately, including the 
apprehension of dangerous substances and criminals that have 
already crossed our open borders.
    In Riverside County we are in the forefront of the movement 
of humans being exploited and victimized in sex and labor 
trafficking. We often hear on the news of migrants paying 
thousands of dollars to get passes to the United States.
    Paying does not mean paid up front. Many are brokered into 
deals of slavery by means of labor and sex trafficking.
    The lack of true vetting of the adults bringing a child 
into our country is horrific. The current administration could 
be complicit in the delivery of a child into the sex 
trafficking world.
    The thought of compassion and humanitarian passage often 
not as all what we have delivered as a country. The current 
administration emboldens the cartels to send misinformation and 
promises of funding and a better life to potential migrants and 
the cartel can now exploit them for their own criminal gain.
    These policies create victims more often than the 
humanitarian effort promised. We are fearful the current open 
border policies have allowed for many to enter our country with 
the intent to carry out terrorist acts.
    Our region is a frequent destination for current and past 
Presidents and government VIPs. Our concerns have grown to the 
possibility these terrorists may target our region in an effort 
to disrupt government and U.S. leadership.
    As a member of the law enforcement community making policy 
decisions, I am sick of battling the deeply flawed changes 
being made by California politicians and the current 
Presidential administration.
    The Drugs, human trafficking, and the unknown number of 
terrorists and bad actors entering unchecked is eye opening and 
terrifying to our citizens.
    The current administration has lost their understanding of 
the job of government and public safety. I can only hope and 
pray the obvious necessary actions needed to protect and 
strengthen the border are taken seriously and repaired 
immediately, that our Border Patrol agents are again allowed to 
do the work they are experts at, and the misguided politics is 
removed. Weak borders do mean a weak country, one to evade and 
abuse.
    I appreciate the opportunity to share my experience and 
insights as a leader in Riverside County.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of the Hon. Sharp follows:]
    
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    Mr. Issa. Thank you, Sheriff.
    Mr. Gautereaux?

                  STATEMENT OF CORY GAUTEREAUX

    Mr. Gautereaux. Congressman, thank you for prioritizing 
this critical issue. I am going to breeze through this because, 
as my wife and my mom would attest, I have more to say.
    What has occurred over the past nearly four years at the 
Southwest border has led to a crisis that every member of this 
country should be made aware. What I have seen in terms of the 
exploitation of migrants by cartels is horrifying, but 
awareness of the true crisis at the border must be understood.
    I have firsthand knowledge of how this crisis is destroying 
lives because for the last year I have led an operation and 
most recently a nonprofit organization in the San Diego County 
area.
    San Diego County has become ground zero for the unmitigated 
incursion into the United States by undocumented migrants being 
smuggled here by cartels.
    There is a misconception that the over 10 million 
undocumented people coming across the border in the last four 
years are just looking for a better life. While that is true in 
many cases, the U.S. Government policy at the border is 
facilitating a multibillion-dollar smuggling operation by the 
cartels.
    The cartels are not simply providing transportation for a 
cost. They are sexually assaulting women and children, and they 
are taking the lives of people without any fear of retribution.
    I grew up in this county. My family is here. My business is 
here. My friends are here behind me, and I am terrified each 
and every single day by what is happening with no regard for 
our safety.
    For the last year my team and I personally collected 
hundreds of discarded passports and driver's licenses--I have 
some here today from individuals all over the world.
    Most of these IDs I find are crudely destroyed, lit on 
fire, ripped apart, or folded and buried. There are thousands 
of these travel documents floating around the border and many 
people behind me have just as much as I do.
    We deserve security. We deserve honesty from our 
government. How have cartels been permitted to act with 
impunity at our California border for so long? Why are 
immigration laws not being enforced?
    Why am I finding the identifications of young children and 
newborns at the border who are being smuggled and trafficked 
here on a daily basis?
    Many of these children come here unaccompanied. This is 
because the cartels have realized that they can profit through 
the failed Federal Government's Office of Refugee Resettlement 
program that delivers children to unvetted sponsors that are 
part of a transnational criminal organization.
    While on the border my team located an abandoned cell 
phone. We accessed the cell phone and discovered it was from 
someone who traveled from Wuhan, China, to San Gabriel, 
California.
    I found around 40 different chat groups via an app on the 
phone that provide instructions on how to get smuggled into the 
U.S. The most prominent chat groups are Chinese, but my team 
has infiltrated Russian, Ukrainian, Azerbaijan, and other 
Middle Eastern chats as well.
    The chats do not stop. They run 24/7. They contain a 
treasure trove of intelligence information. This research has 
led to chats that are associated with a sophisticated network 
of CCP operatives working in our country.
    In addition to infiltrate the border, I have discovered 
detailed information on our country's nuclear posture. My team 
and I have discovered many cases of sexual assault at the 
border.
    The cartels are so emboldened that they leave what they 
call trophies that depicts the sexual exploitation they are 
responsible for along the route they smuggle migrants. I have 
seen it firsthand.
    My research has uncovered that children who speak a 
different language arrive with parents who speak a different 
language than they have. My research has also discovered a case 
where a Guatemalan national with a counterfeit visa sexually 
assaulted the child of a local Navy SEAL.
    I have attempted to share content that I found on the 
border that is a matter of national security. I have been told 
that due to the political climate Federal agents would be 
retaliated against for actively investigating this material.
    Now, my stuff is out of order. Again, this is a bipartisan 
issue. I am going to--I was told by people a lot smarter than 
myself to stick to the script, but on my drive here today I 
realized that if I stuck to the script I would not be here.
    So, I am very confused at things like the DNA program where 
they would check the DNA of the child and compare it to that of 
the adult they were with. We are not doing that anymore.
    The Biden Administration did not renew that program. From 
what I remember, approximately 30 percent of those children 
were not related to the people that were coming across.
    That is when we were doing the DNA testing. We are no 
longer doing it. So, what is the number now? We have no idea. 
These people behind me deserve an answer as to why that program 
was not reinstated.
    Tim Tebow sat up here and explained that 20,000 kids were 
missing. Then, Tara Rodas came along and explained that 85,000 
children were missing--migrant children were missing in this 
country.
    I am here today to explain that we now have approximately 
300,000-plus children missing in this country. That is 
unacceptable. The greatest country in the world. That is unsat.
    We need this to be a bipartisan issue, and I know you said 
this was a bipartisan hearing, Congressman. I do not see any 
Democrats here.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Gautereaux follows:]
    
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    Mr. Issa. The Chair would note that all the Members of the 
Committee were invited and those who were able to make it 
showed up. I appreciate your testimony.
    We will followup with questions, and I appreciate your 
deviating from the script to give us your personal perspective. 
I think that is extremely important.
    Ms. Cardinale, you are recognized.

                 STATEMENT OF NICOLE CARDINALE

    Ms. Cardinale. Thank you for having me here today.
    I, Nicole Cardinale, am fourth generation on our ranch in 
Dulzura, California. Dulzura is a small rural town on Highway 
94 founded in the 1800s. I reside in Dulzura with my husband, 
son, and my parents.
    As previously stated, I am a Navy veteran currently working 
in the medical administration and I spend my free time 
volunteering with my son's Little League and other sports.
    On Wednesday, August 28, 2024, a group of migrants 
traveling through Dulzura attempted to board the Jamul-Dulzura 
Union School District's bus transporting young children. One of 
these young children was my eight-year-old son Apollo.
    The children were both confused that a large group of 
adults were attempting to ride their bus, as well as completely 
terrified. On the investigation from the school it was 
discovered that migrants disrupted another bus route the day 
prior. The school's immediate safety plan included a police and 
U.S. border agent escort for the bus.
    While I am extremely grateful for the swift planning from 
the school's administration and the law enforcement escorts, 
this is a very disruptive way for a child to have to start 
their day.
    Apollo and other children did not ride the bus for several 
days after Wednesday's unpleasant incident out of immense fear 
that migrants would attempt to board his bus again.
    Many parents like me not only rely on the bus for 
transportation but pay a yearly fee for our children to be 
safely transported to school. That feeling of safety has 
forever been tarnished for parents as well as the children.
    A large concern is not all migrants are properly background 
checked or vetted. How can we be sure that these migrants do 
not have a criminal record or have ill intent?
    The children on the bus and the bus driver could have been 
very seriously injured had these 20 migrants been violent, 
hostile, or had the motive to enter the bus by force.
    Living in Dulzura for 24 years we are not strangers to 
migrants attempting to use our property to pass through. On 
many occasions we have had migrants trespass onto our property 
to ask us for resources, water, or to offer us money to traffic 
them to nearby cities.
    On one horrific occasion a beloved family horse was 
released from his corral by migrants crossing through our 
property. The horse was tragically struck by a vehicle and 
killed.
    The sad reality is the bus incident is a small part of a 
much larger issue. The border crisis has not only become an 
economic burden to the United States but has become a 
substantial safety concern.
    It should not take extreme circumstances such as children 
being injured by administrators to see the problems occurring 
at the border. The border crisis is detrimental to the well 
being of American citizens and our generations to follow.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Cardinale follows:]
    
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    Mr. Issa. Thank you.
    We will now go in order of seniority starting with Mr. 
Biggs.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the 
witnesses for being here. Thank you to the city of Santee for 
hosting us and we appreciate all the folks from the public 
being here today.
    To Mr. Hestrin, bear down. Let us talk for a moment about 
the State's support. Are they supporting you in your effort?
    Because you are prosecuting as a County Attorney. State 
charges of illegal aliens who come into your county and violate 
the--I assume the State law. That is where you are focused, 
right?
    Mr. Hestrin. Yes.
    Mr. Biggs. Is the State of California supporting that 
effort?
    Mr. Hestrin. Not at all.
    Mr. Biggs. How about the Federal Government?
    Mr. Hestrin. The Federal Government has been supportive. 
The U.S. attorney for the central district Martin Estrada has 
been. We collaborate with him, cooperate with him and his 
office and they have been supportive of Federal drug 
trafficking causing death is a 20-year minimum in prison, and 
we have had several prosecutions.
    My office actually embeds a Deputy District Attorney in the 
U.S. Attorney's Office and that is how we do these 
prosecutions.
    Mr. Biggs. I am glad to hear that. I hope that you are also 
able to work with CBP and I hope that you carry your program 
out. We have two counties--at least two counties--in Arizona--I 
could probably name you more but Cochise County, Yuma County, 
doing the same type of thing, prosecuting on State charges. 
They might not be getting the assistance from our State either. 
So maybe State-to-State contact would be helpful.
    Ms. Cardinale, I just want to just question, is the police 
escorts still necessary for the busses that your son has to 
travel on?
    Ms. Cardinale. They have now stopped.
    Mr. Biggs. They have not stopped?
    Ms. Cardinale. They have stopped.
    Mr. Biggs. They have now stopped the police escorts?
    Ms. Cardinale. Yes.
    Mr. Biggs. Is your son back on the bus?
    Ms. Cardinale. He is.
    Mr. Biggs. Well, we are concerned about that, and we are 
concerned about the safety of not just your son, but all the 
kids going back and forth to school in this time, and there is 
lots of questions to ask all of you and our time is going to go 
fast.
    So, I wanted to just point out, Mayor Minto, when you 
talked about the resource center you are talking about over a 
five-month period you had 80,000 people go through there, 99 
percent of which were released into the country.
    There were between 125,000-154,000 over about a seven-month 
period that San Diego--that were street released into San Diego 
County. Is that right?
    Mr. Minto. That is correct. So, if you look at it the math 
does not really add up.
    Mr. Biggs. Right.
    Mr. Minto. We had about 80,000 that made it to that center, 
and if it had not been for having that center and the foresight 
of our county supervisors to actually put that there, all of 
them would have been released to the streets and had that 
negative impact on all our communities.
    Mr. Biggs. Part and parcel of that is because there is so 
many people that are coming through that are being processed by 
CBP. Detention facilities cannot hold them. They are releasing 
them into the streets, and we see the same thing in Arizona, by 
the way.
    So, what happens is it strains your resources--your local 
resources--and there is not adequate vetting. Some of you 
pointed that out, and that is why they are throwing the cards 
down because we do not have agreements with many countries on 
who will actually let us take them back or send them back.
    So, I appreciate your testimony today.
    Mayor Franklin, we were talking beforehand about these 
cards that have gone through there and I appreciate your strong 
statement because--and Sheriff Sharp, because if you do not 
enforce the law, you cannot get a handle on this very, very 
serious problem.
    I will just say, Mr. Gautereaux, your testimony is 
enlightening as well, and I want all of you to know I have read 
all of your testimony and I just want to make a few comments 
here.
    So, to help you understand, so Yuma County is right on the 
Colorado River between California and here. I was looking this 
up here--in 2020, the last year that Donald Trump was the 
President, that administration we saw a total of 8,774 
encounters in that county, in that sector--in the whole Yuma 
sector, which is a huge sector.
    Then after the Biden team came on, and I should call it the 
regime, not the team--by February they had already seen them 
get to 5,000 in one month.
    In March, they had 12,000. They had 12,000 in that March, 
and there has not been--you can go until a couple of months 
ago. There has not ever been a month under the Biden regime 
that has been lower than the entire year, last year, and what 
was that?
    So, I am sorry, I am going over. I know you are going to 
gavel me down. He wants to pull the hook on me. I am hurrying, 
Mr. Chair.
    Here is the--
    Mr. Issa. This is the kinder, gentle Darrell. You are just 
not ready for it.
    Mr. Biggs. Yes, I was not used to that. Was not used to 
that, sir.
    Mr. Issa. The gentlemen may continue for a time.
    Mr. Biggs. Yes, I will hurry.
    So, you got in Manhattan 75 percent of violent crimes now 
are reported to be committed by illegal aliens. You have seen 
what happened in Aurora, Colorado, two apartment complexes 
taken over by Tren de Aragua.
    So, they have done it violently. What did the Governor say 
of Colorado? He said, ``this is all imagination. It is not 
real.'' Do not believe what your lying eyes are telling you.
    It happened in Chicago recently. Thirty-two armed gang 
members from that Venezuelan violent gang called Tren de Aragua 
took over an apartment complex. This is permeating throughout 
the country. You are experiencing it here. You are like some of 
our Arizona counties which are transits. So, these people are 
coming in and they are going throughout the country.
    So, how do you resolve some of that? I would just say we 
need to reinstitute Title 42. We need to reinstate MPP. We need 
to make sure ICE is actually removing the 1.5 million people 
who have had due process and have removal orders from our 
courts.
    This administration will not let them be removed. They need 
to be removed. We need to find the more than 300,000 children.
    Now, by the way, when we talk about unaccompanied minors, 
if you are 17 years old or if you are 25 and tell them you are 
17 you will be treated as an unaccompanied minor. So, you have 
a wide range there.
    We have misplaced--this administration has misplaced 
300,000. You remember what the media did to the previous 
administration that misplaced a couple thousand, and they found 
everyone but about 50 of those. I was on the committee that was 
investigating that so I can tell you.
    DNA testing--we stopped that. We cannot vet. So, if you 
have thrown down your ID you are a blank sheet of paper to the 
CBP and you can create a whole new legend for yourself, and we 
need to have our detention facilities and use those because if 
you are removing, you are doing hands-on stopping at the 
border, and you are detaining people rather than releasing them 
throughout the U.S. you make the country safer, first, but you 
also stop the incentive factor to come over here.
    There is so much more to be said about this, Mr. Chair. I 
am grateful that we are holding this hearing, and I thank you 
for your indulgence, and I have so much more to say on this 
topic, but I will yield back.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Issa. I thank the gentleman. We now recognize the 
gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Fitzgerald.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Chair Issa.
    I certainly appreciate Mayor Minto hosting us here today. I 
made numerous visits to the border since I have been a Member 
of Congress, and you always walk away with a unique experience 
or something different that makes an impression on you.
    Everything that I have seen certainly causes more concern 
for any of us who find ourselves in a position of either being 
on Judiciary Committee--I will mention I am also a Member of 
Financial Services as well and there is a nexus, believe it or 
not, between the two Committees as we continue to see an 
infiltration of those that are not necessarily considered 
somebody that is just crossing the border for--whether it is 
asylum or even if they say they are here to look for employment 
or whatever reason they might offer. So, this is becoming 
bigger and bigger and bigger every day that passes.
    So, I represent the far Western suburbs of Milwaukee, still 
a fairly rural district in Wisconsin. A lot of agricultural 
related industry in and around there. Still many dairy farms in 
Wisconsin.
    I would say three or four years ago we were not really 
feeling the impact, certainly not as significant as what we are 
hearing about today or what I have heard about whether you are 
in McAllen, Texas, or if you are in the Tucson sector, which we 
were a couple months ago, and some of the other border visits 
that we have done.
    I wanted to start with a quick question for the DA and 
actually these are numbers from the U.S. Attorney's Office.
    In the first nine months of Fiscal Year 2022, San Diego and 
the surrounding area accounted for 60 percent of all fentanyl 
seizures nationwide. Not my number. Like I said, that is the 
U.S. Attorney's number.
    I am wondering, and based on what we have known before and 
what we saw yesterday, as the Chair brought up in the vault, 
which I have now been able to visit on two separate occasions, 
all the evidence being held related to the Ninth Circuit and 
the cases that they are prosecuting, managing, this is a great 
concern, obviously, across the Nation.
    I have parents that had children that have died from 
fentanyl use. Obviously, these stories continue to kind of 
percolate out there as we hear them, sometimes with a cloud of 
mystery as to what exactly happened.
    District Attorney, can you tell us specifically about what 
you see related to fentanyl crimes right now?
    Mr. Hestrin. Yes. Fentanyl is overwhelming Riverside County 
just as you mentioned, Congressman. It is pouring in across our 
Southern border and it is coming through Riverside County.
    Riverside County is a pass through to other destinations. 
Los Angeles is the largest market for illicit drugs, so it 
comes to Riverside County. Many of the drug gangs use Riverside 
County as sort of a holding.
    They will get homes, fill it up with fentanyl and other 
drugs and then ship it out to other parts of the country as the 
orders come in. They are running a business. The cartels are 
running a business, and they are essentially using our open 
border as a business opportunity.
    The heartbreaking thing, and I am glad you mentioned it, 
Congressman, I gave statistics in my opening statement about 
the number of deaths going up since 2020, 1,200 some percent, 
and I always hesitate to do that because it sort of clouds the 
reality.
    The reality is that these are real people, real families 
with a son or daughter that has been taken from them by these 
criminals and I cannot go anywhere in Riverside County without 
being stopped by a family that wants to talk to me about and 
tell me the story of their child being taken from them and cut 
down in the spring of their life.
    What is happening, unfortunately, is that the cartels have 
moved into the counterfeit pill business and, as I mentioned, 
70 percent of the illegal pills on our streets are containing 
fentanyl.
    So, these people are dying. They think they are taking an 
Adderall. They think they are taking a Percocet. Obviously, we 
do not condone illegally buying Percocet or Adderall on the 
internet, but they are being killed and it is murder. To me, it 
is murder. I think it should be murder across this country.
    A criminal who poisons an American with fentanyl belongs in 
prison and what we are seeing is just a wave of these deaths.
    Last year in 2023, we had 554 deaths in Riverside County 
fentanyl related. As I said, as recently as 2016 we had two, 
and if we did not have Narcan in the hands of every police 
officer and sheriff's deputy you could probably add a zero to 
those number of deaths.
    So, this is a tidal wave of death and destruction that is 
coming across our open Southern border. We have to get a handle 
on this fast. It is wrecking our communities.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you.
    Mayor Minto, you talked a little bit about--and I would ask 
the same type of question to Mayor Franklin, because we are 
seeing in our own communities where there is an absolute 
depletion of resources related to trying to fight this.
    I am talking about a community in Wisconsin where there are 
a number of law enforcement actions related to--it can be 
anything from a fender bender in the parking lot, but if you 
have got an illegal involved in that incident suddenly it 
escalates and blooms into a much bigger deal than otherwise it 
would be.
    So, specifically for your law enforcement, that portion of 
your budget, what kind of constraints and how difficult has 
that been for you to manage?
    I will ask Mayor Minto first and then Mayor Franklin.
    Mr. Minto. I do have to give full disclosure here. We are a 
contract city with the sheriff's department, so we are very 
fortunate in the fact that we do not always have to come up 
with extra money out of our budget--our city.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. OK.
    Mr. Minto. So, the question is what happens at the county 
level? How much money do they have to come up with?
    I talked a little bit about in my statement is that if we 
were not putting money into these transit centers then there 
would be a lot more money that was needed when the DA was 
actually spot on when he said how impacted we are by not having 
things like Narcan or some of the other types of drugs.
    Can you imagine how much money we would have saved and been 
able to put into other resources if we did not have to buy all 
that medicine just to keep people alive who took something that 
they did not know what they were taking?
    That is what is really important, and so for us we are very 
fortunate we do not have to come up with a lot of extra money.
    I do not know about Mayor Franklin, if he has that same 
type of experience or not, but the only thing we really come up 
with more money is to, for instance, a lot of these people 
become homeless on our streets. So, we have to address it from 
that angle.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Right.
    Chair, are you going indulge Mayor Franklin?
    Mr. Issa. Of course.
    Mr. Franklin. So, we are also a contract city but, of 
course, we pay $273,000 to the county for each deputy that we 
employ and the number we employ is a decision of our council. 
So, we do spend more money on law enforcement than any other 
budget item, and my city is the single busiest sheriff station 
in the entire county of the 12 cities that are policed by the 
sheriff.
    We have a major issue with availability of jail beds and 
one of the biggest problems that we face is that our deputies 
and police officers in other parts of the county when they are 
making arrests, they do not have the capacity in the jail-to-
jail folks. We have made some really, really horrible decisions 
as a State and some bad decisions in the county.
    The A.B. 109 that released half of our prison population 
and put about 25 percent of that population in our county jails 
has taken beds and space away.
    The whole problem of border crime, and as I talked about in 
my statement, we know that tens of thousands of these crimes 
are initiated or originated by people who are here unlawfully.
    Clearly, it is placing a significant burden on all our law 
enforcement resources that would not be there if we had a 
secure border.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you.
    Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Issa. Thank you. I recognize the gentleman from Arizona 
for unanimous consent.
    Mr. Biggs. Yes, Mr. Chair. I have three articles I would 
like to be submitted into the record for--by unanimous consent.
    The first is a piece recently entitled ``Illegal alien MS-
13 gang member wanted for murder found living in Texas.'' The 
second is ``Kamala's America: Violent Venezuelan mob reportedly 
beat helpless young man in Dallas parking lot as gunshots are 
fired.'' The third one is from Telemundo.
    [speaks in Spanish.]
    Mr. Issa. In spite of not knowing what you said, without 
objection so ordered.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
    Mr. Issa. I will try to pick up--recognize myself and pick 
up a few questions that I think will add to what my two 
colleagues have already asked about.
    District Attorney Hestrin, you are unique in that you 
prosecuted the deceptive dissemination of what appeared to be a 
prescription drug to a young woman, a young girl who died as a 
result of taking just half of that pill.
    There was a successful prosecution but there is no specific 
State law that empowered you to do that. So, as I understand 
you had to work around to put together the facts so that you 
could get that second-degree murder charge.
    Would it be helpful if both the State in a perfect world 
and the Federal Government in what we hope will be a fairly 
perfect world were to give you specific charges that would 
allow you to have manslaughter, second-degree murder, or 
whatever is appropriate based on the normal knowledge of 
somebody who knowingly provides a deceptive drug that leads to 
a mortality?
    Mr. Hestrin. Yes, Chair, it would be incredibly helpful, 
and I do want to point out that this strategy that we have 
embarked on a couple years ago we have filed 36 homicide cases 
against drug traffickers for murder and second-degree murder. 
This has now been sort of emulated by DAs across the State of 
California.
    So, I was proud to lead that effort but my colleagues 
across the State with some exceptions are also doing the same 
thing. They do not have the numbers because they have not been 
doing it as long, but they are moving in that direction.
    Yes, we have to use existing second-degree murder law, 
especially the laws around DUI murders. That is essentially 
what this is. It is saying that someone who knowingly deals and 
traffics in fentanyl, knowing the risks, disregarded that risk 
and did it anyway, we can proceed under a second-degree murder 
theory.
    It is very difficult. It is legally difficult. It is 
difficult to collect the evidence, and so we formed a task 
force with the sheriff's department in our county. We are very 
blessed to have a sheriff's department that works with us like 
that, and we have been successful.
    The last thing, because we are listening to criminal 
organizations on wiretaps, we know it is having an effect. My 
critics say, oh, that does not matter. That is just the old war 
on drugs. It is ineffective.
    It is a bunch of nonsense. The criminals, we hear them 
saying, we cannot go into Riverside County with drugs because 
they prosecute people there. We are going to go into Los 
Angeles and do the deal there. I have heard that over and over.
    Now, I do not wish the people of Los Angeles any ill, but I 
want them out of my county, and so that makes me happy when I 
hear that. It is working. We need to do this across California, 
across this country. It will have an effect.
    Mr. Issa. Thank you.
    [Applause.]
    Mr. Issa. For both of my mayors, both of you represent 
districts that have high immigrant populations. Would it be 
fair to say that virtually every family that you deal with has 
some loved one on a list wanting to come to the United States?
    In other words, almost all your constituents who are 
immigrant families also have further relatives that legally 
they are trying to get to the United States.
    Mr. Franklin. Congressman, thank you for that question 
because I almost on a monthly basis am talking to families who 
are generally in tears wanting to get family members here. They 
have been waiting for years, and to watch people who cross the 
Southern border--to go down and see it in person, who do it 
without any waiting, without going through any of the lawful 
process, and then to see the families who do it the right way, 
who are investing tens of thousands of dollars in attorneys to 
guide them, the level of unfairness and injustice in that is 
off the charts.
    It is wrong, and I appreciate you bringing that up.
    Mr. Issa. Thank you. Thanks for making the case on that 
because this is the Committee that desperately wants to make 
sure that our legal immigration system works, which we all know 
takes longer when you go through the front door, obviously, 
than it does the back door.
    Mr. Gautereaux, I am going to ask you two things at least. 
One of them is will you take time with the Committee to allow 
us to digitize as many of those documents with annotations as 
possible so that we, unlike other Federal entities, are willing 
to pursue and to help you get to some satisfaction for all your 
hard work?
    Mr. Gautereaux. Yes, with the caveat that I would like to 
discuss all that in a closed setting.
    Mr. Issa. Absolutely, and we want to do it in an 
appropriate way. You did share with me before we came on 
something of great concern that I would like to make public 
here.
    If I understood correctly, you have a number of documents 
there that show Afghan nationals who have been given Turkish 
documentation and then threw them away so we would not know 
that what we had were people from a country that in fact 
destroyed our country on 9/11, people from a country that we 
cannot and do not have any ability to trace, and by throwing 
those documents away that they used to get from Turkey to here 
they concealed who they were when they turned themselves at the 
border.
    Mr. Gautereaux. Yes, sir.
    So, my team and I have collected a lot of these documents, 
and some of the people on my team were able to look into these 
different documents, albeit passports, ID cards, and driver's 
licenses.
    I have a credit card from a company that was dropped at the 
border. It is an Indian company, and the person on the credit 
card I decided--it was the name of the company on the card, so 
I decided to Google it.
    That person has a Dun & Bradstreet number. None of this 
stuff makes sense, Congressman. We are having a hard time 
figuring it out and my team is working tirelessly. That is--I 
apologize for getting a little emotional in my testimony, but 
my team is unpaid.
    They are law enforcement, current/prior military, and we 
are trying to figure out what is going on because we are having 
a hard time, like you said, finding someone or an agency. All 
the different task force--I have talked to most of them, and 
they really do not know what to do with this stuff.
    It seems--and I may be wrong--we never were ready for this 
to happen, I will call it an invasion because of what I have 
seen, and we do not have a task force to look into a possible 
invasion of our country. We were not ready for it.
    Mr. Issa. Well, we are trying to get ready for it and I 
appreciate your testimony.
    Ms. Cardinale, I want to thank you for your testimony, and 
it is my hope that we will assert some pressure to see that 
those escorts continue including Federal officers.
    As much as I object to the Border Patrol being asked to be 
Uber drivers for illegal immigrants I would rather that they 
see them at those stopping points, that they take them into 
custody even if I, sadly, know that they will be released.
    So, we were with the Border Patrol yesterday and Customs. 
They are very dedicated, and I will personally take time to 
speak with them to see if we cannot free up enough manpower to 
use that as a technique not just for your child but for all the 
children in the district. So, thank you.
    Sheriff, I have a hundred questions for you, but I am going 
to followup on the one I gave the DA. From your decades of 
experience, if you had a pretty straightforward we are going to 
charge you with second-degree murder--we are going to put you 
away for the rest of your life--if you had that tool when you 
were apprehending even a low-level pusher/seller does that give 
you--the fact that you could charge that does that give you a 
lot more oomph to move up the chain to actually apprehend as 
many of the people involved?
    In other words, does the ability to prosecute at the 
highest level give you a tool that usually works well in your 
experience as a narcotics investigator?
    Mr. Sharp. I think over my time in law enforcement it is 
obvious that whenever there is any level of accountability by 
way of holding somebody criminally accountable for their 
actions, when there is accountability, they want to protect 
themselves at some level.
    They may even want to change the way their actions are and 
that does give us investigative leads, move up the chain, and 
as DA Hestrin mentioned, then we are on wiretaps and seeking 
the people that are really at the core of the problem, the ones 
that keep the business going.
    Mr. Issa. Well, I will tell you the three of us up here are 
convinced that we need to work hard to give you some additional 
tools, at least at the Federal level.
    I will note that our U.S. Attorneys both in Riverside and 
San Diego County have tried hard to do as much as they can with 
a California that often does not make something a crime that 
should be and that is on a Federal level.
    Do either of the Members have a quick followup?
    Mr. Biggs?
    Mr. Biggs. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
    I think the thematically what we have heard today is that 
if you enforce the laws, you provide the deterrent and take 
away the incentive to violate the law, which so many are doing.
    I have one more unanimous consent, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Issa. Without objection, tell me it.
    Mr. Biggs. It is ``Kamala's''--or Que Mala's--``Border 
Chaos: San Diego sector out of control. Illegals arriving from 
Jordan, China, and India.''
    I will just point out that yesterday in a--
    Mr. Issa. Without objection that will be placed in the 
record in its entirety.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    As we were on the border just getting to a gap in the 
wall--I have been to many times that very gap--and every time 
there is people coming. There were five people coming. We had 
two from Guatemala, two from Colombia, and one from India.
    So, just in this small group of five they told us that they 
did not know each other. They had met the day before in a hotel 
in Tijuana with a coyote who arranged for them to get together, 
drop them off, and that is the norm now across the Southern 
border and that has got to stop.
    We want to help you all because I know that everybody here 
is sincerely trying to figure out remedies. Mr. Chair, again, 
thank you for letting me speak.
    Mr. Issa. You are most welcome.
    Mr. Fitzgerald?
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Chair.
    Mayor Minto, during your response to the first question you 
talked a little bit about the NGO's. Can you tell us kind of 
what is your overview on--and Mayor Franklin, I am sure you 
have an opinion on this too--because we get a mixed message out 
there, right, and Catholic Charities takes kind of the brunt of 
the criticism related to the NGO's.
    What is your experience right now with the give and take 
with the NGO's and what they are providing and the resources 
they are providing?
    Mr. Minto. Well, what I would like to do first is give you 
a little background on my experience with nongovernment 
organizations, and during the 2000s, I will say, as I was a 
police officer my job was to create programs to keep kids out 
of trouble, out of the justice system, and we relied heavily on 
nongovernment organizations because when you encumber your 
police officers and your probation officers, they are not doing 
a job that they can be doing elsewhere.
    So, if you bring them into the fold--the NGO's into the 
fold--and they are able to perform just basic services 
especially then you know what? Then, your police officers, your 
probation officers, and others can actually do the job they 
were hired for.
    It is better to find out what the cause is for an issue. We 
know that kids, for instance, do a lot of things, everything 
from boredom to being abused, and if you can find out why they 
are doing that you can fix the problem.
    So, nongovernment organizations usually have the resources 
because they get grants from everywhere you can think of, 
especially large ones like Jewish Family Services. So, why not 
let them do the work and then we can take care of the actual 
line work that needs to be done.
    I guess that is the best way of doing it. Today by having 
them on board that still is the way that the work can be done 
best, in my opinion.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. OK. Mayor Franklin?
    Mr. Franklin. There are 6,000 people living unsheltered on 
the streets of our county. A hundred and seventy of those are 
living homeless on the streets of my city.
    Until I have got every single person who is an American off 
the streets and into a place of shelter the idea of spending 
Federal or county money to welcome immigrants who have come 
unlawfully--I visited that center funded by the Federal 
taxpayer through the county of San Diego. They were spending 
$43,000 a week on transportation services.
    Now, one of the untold stories that did not get talked 
about today people are paying between $2,000-$15,000 to the 
cartels. If they do not pay many of them are murdered if they 
try and cross without paying that extortion.
    They come across oftentimes, as you have seen, in their 
best new clothes and they are here to start a new life in the 
United States. Probably most of them that could afford the 
$15,000 or whatever they paid probably also had a few thousand 
dollars in their pocket to get where they are going.
    Now, I do not have a problem with Catholic Charities and 
other NGO's providing some assistance on a compassionate, 
humanitarian basis but why the taxpayer would address the needs 
of people who have entered unlawfully who seem to have some 
money before we would address the needs of those who are living 
without shelter, who are homeless, defies explanation. So, that 
is that is my experience.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Issa. Thank you.
    In closing, I want to point out for the District Attorney--
I know he knows this--that Alexandra's Law was introduced last 
year. It is working through Congress.
    The intent is, with perhaps even some enhancements, to 
begin to give you specific laws that would allow the U.S. 
attorney to join in aggressive prosecution.
    Hopefully, as we are seeing other States who have looked at 
it and have introduced it, it would become something that would 
be both a State and Federal tool because I do believe strongly 
that for law enforcement this type of death through deception 
has to be attacked in an overt--in a specific overt way.
    Yesterday we also introduced to the House of 
Representatives the Sanctuary City Accountability Act. I do not 
want to make this political, but we live in a sanctuary city 
area--Los Angeles and San Diego. We live in a sanctuary State.
    As a result, in many cases the problems you have all told 
us about today are exacerbated by the actions and the Federal 
Government is estimated to have spent--be spending over $152 
billion a year in direct relation to these new and unasked for 
immigrants.
    Last, one of the things that I found hardest to understand 
that I want to make sure is in the record, we are talking today 
exclusively about people who entered the United States through 
the Mexican border.
    Mexico has an immigration policy that requires Afghans, 
Turks, Chinese, and the list goes on and on--virtually every 
country on the planet must have a visa to come into Mexico. 
International law requires if someone is seeking asylum or 
refugee status that they must do so at the first entry to the 
next country, which in every case was Mexico. If not the first 
sometimes the second or third, but certainly we were never the 
first.
    Under Mexican law if someone leaves China and wants to come 
to the United States via Turkey they arrive in Turkey, a 
country which will not admit them without a visa unless they 
say they are going to the United States but do not have a visa.
    They then fly to Mexico where Mexico admits them, although 
they would not admit them without a visa unless they say they 
are going to United States without a visa.
    They then transit unescorted throughout the process other 
than perhaps coyotes to the Mexican border, completely free to 
Remain in Mexico, but with the knowledge that they are coming 
to the United States.
    That is the present State of affairs. Not one person we 
have described today was lawfully admitted to the United States 
under international law.
    Every one of them had been admitted to Mexico in violation 
of Mexico's law and international agreements and then presented 
at the border where our Border Patrol is required to bring them 
in.
    NGO's are paid to help them and in fact we give them 
transit throughout the United States. That is the undeniable 
situation that I have dealt with since I returned to Congress.
    It is one that I know must end and I want to thank all of 
you for your testimony and helping make the record complete. 
Next week the Committee will meet in Washington, DC, and I am 
assured that we will prepare an interim report summarizing our 
many hearings including this one today.
    As is the policy of the Committee, you will have five days, 
all of you, to present additional information, extraneous 
information--that information we talked about getting--so that 
we may make the record complete.
    Again, I want to thank all of you, and I want to thank our 
audience and those who covered this for the U.S. and 
international press.
    Without objection now this meeting is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 10:23 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the 
Committee on the Judiciary can be found at: https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=117607.

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