[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                  EXAMINING THE POLICIES AND PRIORITIES
                     OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE 
                                WORKFORCE
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               ----------                              



              HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, MAY 16, 2023

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                           Serial No. 118-10

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    Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Workforce
    
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    


        Available via: edworkforce.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
56-687                     WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
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                COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE

               VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina, Chairwoman

JOE WILSON, South Carolina           ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, 
GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania             Virginia,
TIM WALBERG, Michigan                  Ranking Member
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona
ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York          JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut
RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia               GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN,
JIM BANKS, Indiana                     Northern Mariana Islands
JAMES COMER, Kentucky                FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida
LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania          SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
BURGESS OWENS, Utah                  MARK TAKANO, California
BOB GOOD, Virginia                   ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina
LISA McCLAIN, Michigan               MARK DeSAULNIER, California
MARY MILLER, Illinois                DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey
MICHELLE STEEL, California           PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
RON ESTES, Kansas                    SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana              LUCY McBATH, Georgia
KEVIN KILEY, California              JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut
AARON BEAN, Florida                  ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota
ERIC BURLISON, Missouri              HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico
JOHN JAMES, Michigan                 KATHY E. MANNING, North Carolina
LORI CHAVEZ-DeREMER, Oregon          FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York           JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York
ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana

                       Cyrus Artz, Staff Director
              Veronique Pluviose, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

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                                                                   Page

Hearing held on May 16, 2023.....................................     1

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

    Foxx, Hon. Virginia, Chairwoman, Committee on Education and 
      the Workforce..............................................     2
        Prepared statement of....................................     5
    Scott, Robert C. ``Bobby'', Ranking Member, Committee on 
      Education and the Workforce................................     8
        Prepared statement of....................................    10

                               WITNESSES

    Cardona, Miguel, Secretary, U.S. Department of Education.....    12
        Prepared statement of....................................    14

                         ADDITIONAL SUBMISSIONS

    Chairwoman Foxx:
        Status of Letter Responses--Department of Education dated 
          May 14, 2023...........................................   106
        Submitted letter dated May 24, 2022, to Chief Operation 
          Officer Cordray........................................   376
        Submitted response letter dated December 15, 2022, to 
          Representative Foxx....................................   378
        Submitted letter dated April 3, 2023, to Secretary 
          Cardona................................................   380
        Submitted response letter dated April 17, 2023, to 
          Chairman Comer.........................................   385
        Submitted response letter dated April 28, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Foxx........................................   388
        Submitted letter dated February 27, 2023, to Secretary 
          Cardona................................................   389
        Submitted response letter dated March 16, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Foxx........................................   393
        Submitted response letter dated May 5, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Foxx........................................   395
        Submitted letter dated September 28, 2022, to Secretary 
          Cardona................................................   396
        Submitted letter dated January 12, 2023, to Secretary 
          Cardona................................................   402
        Submitted response letter dated January 26, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Fox.........................................   404
        Submitted letter dated June 22, 2022, to Secretary 
          Cardona................................................   406
        Submitted response letter dated January 11, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Foxx........................................   409
        Submitted response letter dated May 10, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Foxx........................................   410
        Submitted letter dated March 23, 2023, to Assistant 
          Secretary Lhamon.......................................   411
        Submitted response letter dated April 11, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Foxx........................................   417
        Submitted letter dated April 25, 2023, to Secretary 
          Cardona................................................   419
        Submitted response letter dated May 15, 2023.............   423
        Responding to Committee Document Requests................   424
        Submitted letter dated April 5, 2023, to Secretary 
          Cardona................................................   430
        Submitted response letter dated April 21, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Foxx........................................   437
        Submitted response letter dated May 15, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Foxx........................................   438
        Submitted letter dated February 24, 2023, to Secretary 
          Cardona................................................   442
        Submitted response letter dated April 3, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Foxx........................................   445
        Submitted letter dated June 18, 2020, to Chairman 
          Flaherty and Counsel Kamenar...........................   448
        Submitted letter dated May 12, 2023, to Secretary Cardona   469
        Submitted letter dated April 28, 2023, to Secretary 
          Cardona................................................   473
        Submitted response letter dated May 12, 2023, to 
          Chairwoman Foxx........................................   478
    Adams, Hon. Alma, a Representative in Congress from the State 
      of North Carolina:
        Letter dated March 15, 2023, from the United Negro 
          College Fund (UNCF)....................................    49
        Letter dated March 16, 2023, from the American Council on 
          Education (ACE)........................................    50
        Letter dated March 13, 2023, from Spelman College........    53
        Letter dated March 15, 2023, from Morehouse College......   480
    Burlison, Hon. Eric, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Missouri:
        Letter dated January 19, 2023, from Lance Gooden.........    85
    Jayapal, Hon. Pramila, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Washington:
        Committee Member PPP Loans...............................    62
        College Tuition Comparison of Committee Members..........    63
    Miller, Hon. Mary, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Illinois:
        Article from Office of Population Affairs (OASH).........    73
    Owens, Hon. Burgess, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Utah:
        Article from foxbaltimore.com............................    36
    Thompson, Hon. Glenn, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Pennsylvania:
        Report from National Center for Education Statistics 
          dated May 2019.........................................   128

                        QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

    Responses to questions submitted for the record by:
        Secretary Cardona........................................   483

 
                 EXAMINING THE POLICIES AND PRIORITIES
                     OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

                              ----------                              


                         Tuesday, May 16, 2023

                  House of Representatives,
                  Committee on Education and The Workforce,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m. House 
Rayburn Office Building, Room 2175, Hon. Virginia Foxx, 
(Chairwoman of the Committee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Foxx, Wilson, Thompson, Walberg, 
Grothman, Stefanik, Allen, Banks, Comer, Smucker, Owens, Good, 
McClain, Miller, Steel, Estes, Kiley, Bean, Burlison, Moran, 
Chavez-DeRemer, Williams, Houchin, Scott, Grijalva, Courtney, 
Sablan, Wilson, Bonamici, Takano, Adams, DeSaulnier, Norcross, 
Jayapal, Wild, McBath, Hayes, Omar, Stevens, Leger Fernandez, 
Manning, Mrvan, and Bowman.
    Staff present: Cyrus Artz, Staff Director; Nick Barley, 
Deputy Communications Director; Mindy Barry, General Counsel; 
Hans Bjontegard, Legislative Assistant; Solomon Chen, 
Professional Staff Member; Christina Delmont-Small, 
Investigator; Tyler Dufrene, Research Assistant; Cate Dillon, 
Director of Operations; Daniel Fuenzalida, Staff Assistant; 
Sheila Havenner, Director of Information Technology; Amy Raaf 
Jones, Director of Education and Human Services Policy; Andrew 
Kuzy, Press Assistant; Marek Laco, Professional Staff Member; 
John Martin, Deputy Director of Workforce Policy/Counsel; RJ 
Martin, Professional Staff Member; Hannah Matesic, Director of 
Member Services and Coalitions; Audra McGeorge, Communications 
Director; Eli Mitchell, Legislative Assistant; Gabriella 
Pistone, Legislative Assistant Oversight; Rebecca Powell, Staff 
Assistant; Ian Prince, Professional Staff Member; Mary 
Christina Riley, Professional Staff Member; Chance Russell, 
Professional Staff Member; Kent Talbert, Investigative Counsel; 
Brad Thomas, Senior Education Policy Advisor; Dhrtvan Sherman, 
Minority Staff Assistant; Amaris Benavidez, Minority 
Professional Staff; Nekea Brown, Minority Director of 
Operations; Scott Estrada, Minority Professional Staff; 
Elizabethe Payne, Minority AAAS Fellow; Rashage Green, Minority 
Director of Education Policy & Counsel; Christian Haines, 
Minority General Counsel; Ilana Brunner, Minority General 
Counsel; Stephanie Lalle, Minority Communications Director; 
Kota Mizutani, Minority Deputy Communications Director; Emanual 
Kimble, Minority CBCF Fellow; Veronique Pluviose, Minority 
Staff Director; and Banyon Vassar, Minority IT Administrator.
    Chairwoman Foxx. The Committee on Education and the 
Workforce will come to order. I note that a quorum is present. 
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to call a recess at 
any time. Good morning, everyone, and welcome today's hearing. 
On my first day as Chairwoman of the Committee on Education the 
Workforce this Congress, I made a promise to officials in the 
Biden administration.
    Think about investing in a parking space on Capitol Hill. 
You will be here often. That is because I see congressional 
oversight as a primary duty of the Committee. Secretary 
Cardona, I am pleased you are the first administration official 
to make your statutorily mandated half-mile pilgrimage to the 
Committee this Congress.
    Candidly, Mr. Secretary, I wish we could have you appear 
before us more often. In lieu of your presence, I have directed 
no less than 11 oversight letters to the Department of 
Education since the 118th Congress began. My first letter 
notified you of the Department's obligation to provide timely 
and complete responses to Committee oversight requests.
    Mr. Secretary, I wish this hearing was an endorsement of 
your Department's cooperation with our requests, so we could 
then proceed in good faith to the Fiscal Year 202024 budget 
request. Instead, the Department has engaged in disingenuous 
and misleading actions while being minimally responsive to 
congressional oversight.
    Article 1 vests the power of the purse in the Congress. 
James Madison wrote in Federalist 58 that, ``This power over 
the purse may in fact be regarded as the most complete and 
effectual weapon with which any Constitution can arm the 
immediate representatives of the people for obtaining a redress 
of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and 
salutary measure.''
    Therefore, before turning to the budget proposal for which 
you are here to advocate, I would like to lay out the concerns 
from this Committee of the people's elected representatives to 
which the Department has been derelict in responding. Mr. 
Secretary, the Department has repeatedly attempted to 
circumvent the Constitutional authority of Congress by 
legislating the President's student debt scheme through 
executive fiat.
    Six times the Department extended its pause on student loan 
payments. Each time American families scrambled to prepare for 
the restart of loan payments, which education bureaucrats left 
them in the dark until the 11th hour. The American taxpayer has 
paid 175 billion dollars for the repayment moratorium. It must 
end.
    Then Mr. Secretary, the Department proposed a radical 
alteration to the income drive repayment plan. This back door 
attempt to drive through the President's free college agenda 
will cost the American people at least 230 billion dollars over 
the next decade.
    Finally, Mr. Secretary, on top of that, the Department is 
attempting to provide nearly two-thirds of the benefit to those 
in the top half of the income spectrum. Not only has blanket 
cancellation been rejected by the courts, renounced by nearly 
all economists, and even balked at by former Obama officials, 
it defies logic.
    Student debt cancellation as written is a regressive policy 
that benefits the top half of earners disproportionately 
enforces degree-less blue-collar workers to pay for PhD's. The 
three policies comprising the President student debt scheme 
would cost the American taxpayers upwards of 1 trillion 
dollars. Meanwhile, the Federal Government is 32 trillion 
dollars in debt.
    Each borrowed dollar comes out of worker's paychecks 
through the inflationary tax. I wrote February 10, 27th, and 
April 25th, regarding these issues, and have yet to receive a 
satisfactory answer. Furthermore, Mr. Secretary, the Department 
acts as one of the main proponents of this administration's 
culture war on the American people.
    Your job is to administer faithfully the laws enacted by 
Congress, not misuse those laws to indoctrinate, yet the 
Department has radically rewritten Title IX, so that sex is 
defined as an ideological construction, rather than a 
biological reality. Under your Department's regime self-
identification is deemed sufficient for a man to be a legal 
woman, and therefore compete in women's sports.
    One could self-identify as a man on 1 day, and a woman the 
very next day. What a reductive surface level view of 
womanhood. Frankly, I have yet to hear you define what a woman 
is, yet you propose sweeping rules to redefine women as a 
class. Mr. Secretary, I wish I could say the pervasive, 
progressive ideology championed by your Department has stayed 
in university lecture halls, where students are mature enough 
to debate the concepts.
    It has trickled down to K-12 schooling. Your Department 
recently announced it would give priority to history and civics 
grants for school programs that promote diversity, equity and 
inclusion. Also, and not coincidentally, recent NAPE data 
revealed that under your watch history scores for eighth 
graders have hit record lows, the worst since the assessment 
began in 1994.
    Our country was built on the guiding principles of liberty 
and natural rights. Left-wing history teachings tear down our 
founding by ignoring the good for the bad and ascribing 
collective guilt for whole populations for the actions of their 
ancestors. Aside from dumbing down a whole generation, this 
radical new history is aimed at subverting our national story, 
as in imperfect people collectively bound by higher ideals.
    Finally, Mr. Secretary, let us not forget the COVID-19 
pandemic. By prolonging school closures at the behest of 
teachers' unions, your Department made the single greatest 
education policy failure in our Nation's history. You let 
students lose 20 years of progress in core curriculum like 
math, reading and history.
    It did not take a scientific study to tell you that remote 
learning would crush K-12 progress. All it took was listening 
to parents. If COVID proved one thing, it is that writing a 
blank check for education is not the answer. We effectively 
turned the Department into a bank during the pandemic, sending 
190 billion out the door to K-12 schools.
    We know how that turned out. Those funds have been used to 
push the administration's ideological agenda, such as 
subsidizing LGBTQ+ cultural competencies in California. Your 
Department refused to conduct proper oversight over COVID 
relief funds, so on April 3d my Committee stepped in and 
requested documents and accountability.
    We have yet to receive satisfactory response. That is the 
thrust of your Department's action this past year. Now let me 
quickly turn to the Fiscal Year 202024 budget proposal. 
Ironically, this administration is trying to justify a 10.8 
billion dollar increase in discretionary spending for the 
Department of Education from the Fiscal Year 202023 level.
    Earlier I called the half mile to Capitol Hill a pilgrimage 
because I feel that is exactly how administration officials 
view it. This building is foreign to them. Officials shy from 
oversight and accountability, instead of treating it as their 
sacred duty to answer elected representatives.
    We want answers. We want answers for parents left in the 
dark, children put a generation behind, women athletes being 
discriminated against, and the American taxpayer left with the 
bill. That should be the starting point for any budget 
discussion. With that, I yield to the Ranking Member for an 
opening statement.
    [The statement of Chairwoman Foxx follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    

    Mr. Scott. Thank you, Dr. Foxx, and before I begin, I would 
like to take a moment to acknowledge that tomorrow is the 69th 
anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision. In 
that decision the Chief Justice wrote that in the field of 
public education the doctrine of separate, but equal, has no 
place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal.
    Now, almost 70 years later, the American's public schools 
are as segregated by race and class today as they were in the 
late 1960's. According to a government accountability office 
report last year more than a third of public school students 
attend a racially segregated school.
    Tomorrow, I will reintroduce legislation The Strengthen 
Diversity Act, and the Equity Inclusion Enforcement Act, to 
meaningfully address school segregation, and finally realize 
the promise of Brown. Now, Mr. Secretary, good morning, and 
thank you for being with us today.
    I am pleased to say that under your leadership the Biden 
Harris administration has helped restore the Department's 
commitment to supporting public schools, supporting students, 
and supporting educators.
    Two years ago, as the Chair pointed out, we secured the 
largest investment in the K through 12 education, in our 
Nation's history in the American Rescue Plan, which made it 
possible for schools to reopen safely, stay open safely, 
addressing learning loss, and respond to student's social and 
emotional needs. We ensured that the greatest resources went to 
those with the greatest need.
    This administration has forgiven more than 38 billion 
dollars in student loan debt for 1.75 million borrowers, 
including loan borrowers who were defrauded by their 
institutions. It has helped provide borrowers with a clear 
pathway to repayment by improving the public service loan 
forgiveness program, and the income driven repayment program.
    The Department also helped protect student's safety and 
civil rights by updating Title IX rule and issuing new guidance 
to protect students with disabilities from discriminatory 
discipline practices. These are just some of the key steps the 
Department, under this administration, has taken to deliver for 
students and educators.
    Today we look forward to hearing more about how the 
President's budget proposals will build on this progress. It is 
often said that a budget proposal is a statement of values. 
Investments we choose to make, or choose not to make, are a 
clear way for the American people to see whether their elected 
officials are putting their taxpayer's money where their mouths 
are.
    President's budget proposal reflects a continued commitment 
to expanding access to high quality education at every level. 
Here are just a few examples. The proposal shows up funding to 
help underserved schools close achievement gaps, these are the 
same programs that are helping students recover from the 
pandemic.
    To lower the cost of college, the budget proposes $820.00 
in increased maximum Pell Grant, as well as a downpayment 
toward free community college, and it boosts funding for career 
and technical education, which is critical for our economy. 
These investments will be transformational for our educational 
system.
    Regrettably my republican colleagues have chosen to use 
their time in the majority to pursue policies that harm 
students and roll back the clock on our progress. Last month 
the House Republicans passed a bill that makes devastating cuts 
to programs for our students and educators.
    It eliminates billions of dollars for schools serving low-
income students equivalent to removing more than 60,000 
educators and staff from classrooms.
    The proposal reduces funding for as many as 7.5 million 
students with disabilities and makes college more expensive by 
eliminating Pell Grants for 80,000 students and reducing the 
maximum award for the remaining 6.6 million recipients.
    Finally, it eliminates badly needed student debt relief for 
more than 40 million eligible borrowers. Our nation's students 
and educators deserve better. We should be working together to 
address the urgent challenges in education such as rebuilding 
and modernizing school infrastructure, addressing achievement 
gaps, protecting student's civil rights, and lowering the cost 
of college for current and future borrowers.
    Committee democrats have introduced and will continue to 
introduce legislation that will take key steps toward these 
goals, and simply put when we invest in education, students can 
succeed. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for your time, and for your 
work to help every student access high quality education. Thank 
you, Madam Chair, and I yield back.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Scott follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Scott. Pursuant to 
Committee Rule 8(c), all members who wish to insert written 
statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the 
Committee Clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5 
p.m., 14 days after the date of the hearing, which is May 30, 
2023.
    Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 
14 days to allow such statements, and other extraneous 
materials referenced during the hearing to be submitted for the 
official record.
    I now turn to the introduction of our distinguished 
witness. We have before us today Hon. Miquel Cardona, who is 
Secretary of the U.S. Department of Education. Secretary 
Cardona, I recognize you for your verbal statement.

STATEMENT OF HON. MIGUEL CARDONA, SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 
                           EDUCATION

    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Good morning, Chairwoman 
Foxx, Ranking Member Scott, and distinguished members of the 
Committee. I am pleased to join you today to testify on behalf 
of President Biden's Fiscal Year 2024 Budget Request for the 
Department of Education.
    I often say that investing in our children is as important 
as investing in our defense. It protects our future. It 
strengthens our society. It reinforces the prosperity of our 
country, our economy, and the power of our example around the 
world. This budget request is about whether we choose to invest 
in that future for our children, and for our Nation.
    We can choose to invest in giving our children a strong 
foundation for learning right away by expanding high quality 
preschool for more 4-year-olds across America. We can choose to 
invest in a better education for our students in Title I 
schools where they can learn the fundamentals of reading, math, 
and other rigorous subjects they will need to succeed in life 
because those schools are able to tailor instruction and use 
data to provide one on one support thanks to 2.2 billion 
dollars in additional funding.
    We can choose to invest in guaranteeing that our students 
will have highly qualified teachers with years of experience 
because we worked early to fully prepare, develop and empower a 
strong and diverse educator workforce. We can choose to invest 
in better learning conditions for our students with another 
half billion dollars to advance our goal of doubling the number 
of counselors, the number of social workers, mental health 
providers available to our students.
    We can choose to double the funding for full-service 
community schools that help our students get wrap around 
support from their own community. Crucially Madam Chairwoman, I 
know we have a lot of common ground on this. We can choose to 
invest in pathways to careers and skills to compete and succeed 
in a strong economy.
    This budget would deliver more funding for career and 
technical education, more funds to create career connected high 
schools, and more investments in helping every student become 
multi-lingual.
    We can also choose to invest in making sure postsecondary 
education is inclusive, and affordable for the many Americans 
who will benefit from a college credential or degree. That 
means increasing Pell Grants. It means investing in proven 
strategies that help students better afford college and succeed 
in earning a degree.
    It means supporting our HBCUs, our TCUs, and our MSIs. It 
means making universal community college a reality nationwide. 
We have a choice to give our students. We have a choice to give 
them more, not less, with this budget. We have a choice to go 
back to a broken status quo, or to raise the bar for education 
together.
    As we consider this budget request let us appreciate that 
even as we respectfully disagree in some areas, we all believe 
passionately in the importance of giving our young people a 
brighter future. Let us acknowledge that we have many areas of 
common ground, from wanting our children to have a strong 
foundation in reading and math, to seeking more skills and 
career pathways for our young people.
    The choice we face now is whether we are going to build on 
common ground that we have to invest in our children or protect 
a broken status quo that is failing too many of our students. 
Now is not the time to breakdown in partisan or divisive 
culture wars. Now is the time to choose to come together on 
behalf of the students, parents and educators who are looking 
to us to serve and raise the bar for education in this country.
    Working together I know we can, and we will. Thank you, and 
I am looking forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Secretary Cardona follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Secretary for staying 
within the time. Now, under Committee Rule 9, we will now 
question witnesses under the 5-minute rule. I will start by 
asking questions. Mr. Secretary, as I read through your 
statement I saw only a passing reference to the restart of loan 
payments.
    You said the Department was requesting 2.65 billion to 
administer FSA programs, ``to support students and student loan 
borrowers as they navigate the financial aid application, and 
student loan repayment processes.'' I, and Subcommittee 
Chairman Owens wrote you on April 25th asking 12 questions 
about the readiness of the Department and FSA for the restart.
    We have not received any answers. Last week in your 
testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee you said 
the Department is preparing to restart Federal student loan 
payments. Will you commit to no more extensions of the 
repayment pause?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx. As you know, 
the one-time target debt relief plan that President Biden 
proposed will provide up to 43 million Americans with some much 
needed relief, but we recognize that the loan payment will be 
restarting, and as we said in the past, the Supreme Court 
decision, which we are eagerly awaiting, we feel positive that 
it is going to be a positive outcome.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I am under a time constraint, so I would 
like you to get real specific, okay? Are you going to pause 
anymore of the repayments?
    Secretary Cardona. We communicated that after the Supreme 
Court decision is made, loan repayments will start within 60 
days of the decision.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Okay. What are the specific interim and 
final action steps you've advised loan servicers to take in 
preparation for the restart?
    Secretary Cardona. We are in communication regularly with 
loan servicers, and we recognize that part of the success of 
the repayment plan will be based on how our borrowers receive 
information in a timely way, in a clear way. We have engaged 
with our servicers to ensure that that is the expectations.
    Chairwoman Foxx. How many written communications explaining 
the details of the restart has the Department had with loan 
services from January of this year until the present?
    Secretary Cardona. Sure. My team is engaging with yours to 
provide that information, and we will make sure that that 
information gets to you in a response.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Have either you or Mr. Cordray spoken 
directly with the loan servicers about the restart any time 
during the period January 2023 through the present?
    Secretary Cardona. As I said, the information that you 
requested will be provided, and it will answer who from the 
Department has communicated.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Will that include sufficient information 
about sufficient compensation for the student loan servicers to 
have the capacity to return to repayment? Will you include 
that?
    Secretary Cardona. I will ensure that my team has this 
information that you are requesting, and while I do not have 
the information in front of me now, I will tell you that I will 
continue to act in good faith to be responsive.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Is it true that you have cut the service 
levels provided by the servicers and the funding they receive 
by amending the current contract, while at the same time you 
have extended those contracts through December 2024? Is that 
true?
    Secretary Cardona. Chairwoman Foxx, part of the requests 
that we have here is to provide sufficient funding to make sure 
that we can provide good service to our borrowers, and we feel 
that this budget reflects our attempt to make sure that we are 
providing good service to our borrowers through their 
servicers.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Mr. Secretary, this act of Congress that 
established the Department of Education included the finding 
that ``Parents have the primary responsibility for the 
education of their children in states and localities and 
private institutions have the primary responsibility for 
supporting that parental role.''
    You agree, do you not, that teachers, administrators and 
school boards should defer to parents as the primary teachers 
of their children, and teachers, administrators and school 
boards should support parents, not undercut them and work 
against them. Is that correct?
    Secretary Cardona. As a former school principal, I would 
always tell parents at graduations you are the first and most 
influential teachers. I say we play a supporting cast, and the 
schools that are most effective are those that honor and engage 
parents in a meaningful way.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Okay. On a related point I note that a 
report released in March of this year by the Defense Freedom 
Institute found that 8 of the Nation's 20 largest school 
districts allowed students to use names and pronouns without 
parental knowledge and consent, yet some of these same 
districts included New York City Department of Education, LA 
Unified School District, Chicago Public Schools require 
parental permission to dispense over the counter medications.
    Mr. Secretary, you agree, do not you, that school districts 
that allow students to use names and pronouns in school align 
with their gender identity without parental knowledge and 
consent undercuts parents.
    Secretary Cardona. As I said before Chairwoman, it is 
critical that schools and parents are engaged together and 
supporting children. Decisions like that are made at the local 
level. The Federal Government does not have a role in that.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you again, Mr. Secretary, and I now 
recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Grijalva is recognized for 5 
minutes. Thank you.
    Mr. Grijalva. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and 
welcome. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, it is good to see you again. 
The discussion on the proposed budget by the administration is 
an investment on top of an investment and is good strategy, but 
my question Dr. Cardona, has to do with the republican budget, 
or the illusion of a budget, which calls for a 22 percent cut, 
even on the 22 levels, based on debt, and based also on the 
premise that the military would not be touched at all.
    I asked the question because I think it is important to 
contrast this investment budget that you are bringing before 
the Committee today versus what is a budget that devastates 
Title I, devastates all the support and supplemental services, 
especially toward our most vulnerable students.
    Speak to that point. Speak to the point as well Mr. 
Secretary, there is a demographic shift going on in our public 
education system across the country, reflected in the area I 
represent. Not only the diversity in terms of race and 
ethnicity, but also poor kids being the bulk in some areas of 
who is attending public education.
    Why this investment is important to that transition that 
this country is going through in our public schools, and why 
these proposed cuts, how they devaState this and why that 
cutting those programs at this time to those populations, what 
it means to our country going forward, sir.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman Grijalva, and you 
know, as a lifelong educator I have been able to see how these 
dollars, these Federal dollars help students who are most in 
need. You mentioned Title I. Students who are struggling to 
read. We have work to do in this country to get our students 
reading at the level they should be reading.
    There is no reason in this country we are not leading the 
world. Our plan is aimed at addressing the literacy numeracy, 
and the achievement of students in many other areas. I have 
seen the impacts of Title I dollars for example. I have seen 
the impact of the IDEA dollars, for our students, and quite 
frankly, you are absolutely right.
    Cuts in these areas would negatively impact those students 
who need it most. For example, it would result in a 22 percent 
cut would result in approximately 60,000 teachers being cut 
from Title I dollars across the country.
    Our students cannot afford that. For students that are 
students with disabilities, I would argue these students have 
probably been impacted the most by the pandemic because they 
did not have access to the small group setting, the one-to-one 
device support that they often receive.
    We would see a cut of 48,000 teachers under IDEA. It would 
have a negative impact on our entire country, but I think the 
impact would be most felt by those in greatest need.
    Mr. Grijalva. I have other questions having to do with 
Title I that you responded to, the 22 percent funding cut, 
questions about middle school and its importance in our system, 
American Indian and Alaskan Native education, school librarians 
and the right to read.
    As I think the mention of ideological and cultural issues 
being dominating the discussion around education, and not the 
fundamental needs that it has, and what we could supplement 
those needs within terms of resources. I want to congratulate 
the Department of Education for continuing to protect the 
students right to read, and the parents right to choose what 
they read.
    Not when you have over 2,500 books banned across libraries 
in this country, or attempts to ban those books, that is a 
frightening thought. If we are talking about ideological 
grievance issues, you know, one parent's rights are important 
and need to be protected, but the ability of children to have 
access to the best information and for that to be empirical, 
and for that to be protected as I right I think is also 
important.
    I want to congratulate the Department for that, and with 
that I yield back, Madam Chairwoman.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Grijalva. Mr. Walberg, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you Mr. 
Secretary for being here.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Mr. Walberg. During the prolonged school closures caused by 
the pandemic and the outsized, and I will say that again, 
outsized teacher's union influence, many parents were able to 
get a window into their child's education like never before. It 
is about time. They should have been doing it sooner.
    Parents knew that school closures were harming their 
children, and they needed to get back in the classroom as 
quickly as possible. We recently saw a sample of the devasting 
impact these school closures had on our children's education. 
In the Nation's report card student testing scores have 
declined in history, civics, reading and math.
    Last year the acting Associate Commissioner of the National 
Assessment of Education Progress said, ``These are some of the 
largest declines we have ever observed in the single assessment 
cycle in 50 years.'' Mr. Secretary, in February 2021 the CDC 
planned to release guidance to reopen schools regardless of 
community spread of COVID-19.
    Then the CDC consulted with the American Federation of 
Teachers, and its President, Randi Weingarten, who provided 
edits to the reopening guidance. These edits according to CNN's 
Jake Tapper at the time, would have allowed schools serving 99 
percent of children to potentially close.
    Mr. Secretary, we know how important in person schooling 
is, and we know how devastating remote learning has been. By 
2021, we also knew that COVID posed low risk to children. The 
question comes, and Mr. Secretary, do you think the CDC was 
wrong to provide AFT President Weingarten veto power over their 
guidance, and do you think teachers' unions were wrong in 
discouraging schools from reopening?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman Walberg, for the 
question. I share the strong belief that our students needed to 
be in schools right away, and that we needed to reopen our 
schools. When I took oath on March 2, 2021, 46 percent of the 
schools in this country were open full-time.
    Within 9 months we were over 98 percent of our schools open 
full-time, so my actions prove that I too, felt schools should 
be reopened.
    Mr. Walberg. You felt that Randi Weingarten should not have 
had veto power for the CDC?
    Secretary Cardona. I can speak to the Department of 
Education and what we were focused on.
    Mr. Walberg. Well, we are expecting the Secretary of 
Education to stand up to the teachers' union when they are 
wrong.
    Secretary Cardona. I will be very frank with you.
    Mr. Walberg. They seem to have veto power with this.
    Secretary Cardona. Mr. Walberg, when I was Commissioner of 
Education in Connecticut, and then when I became Secretary of 
Education for the whole country, we worked with various 
different stakeholders who were all onboard with safely 
reopening our schools.
    Mr. Walberg. Well, I would hope that I guess getting to the 
punchline here, we would hope that in the future that when we 
have science that goes on, and certainly not locking down 
schools again, that the Department of Education be the 
strongest proponent for making schools open and working for the 
kids.
    Let us go on. We know that CDC closely consulted with two 
teachers' unions, the AFT and the NEA on school reopening 
guidance in 2021. This year on April 25, the New York Post 
reported, and I quote, ``AFT and the National Education 
Association also asked the White House and the CDC for help 
shaping its press strategy to show the rank and file they and 
the Biden administration were on the same page.''
    Mr. Secretary, yes or no, please. Did your Department have 
any role in advising the NEA or the AFT on their public 
relations strategies, yes or no?
    Secretary Cardona. We take our work to communicate with the 
public very seriously. We don't engage in other----
    Mr. Walberg. Yes or no. That is what I asked. It is a 
simple----
    Secretary Cardona. I understand you are asking a yes or no 
question, but I want to be very clear on the values of the 
Department. We take the role of communicating with families----
    Mr. Walberg. Did you have a role in advising the NEA or 
AFT?
    Secretary Cardona. We do not have a role in advising.
    Mr. Walberg. You do not have a role?
    Secretary Cardona. We do not have a role in advising the 
NEA of AFT.
    Mr. Walberg. Okay. Mr. Secretary, in states where teachers' 
unions are the strongest schools were especially slow to open, 
including Michigan. According to the AIA's Return to Learn 
tracker on June 7, 2021, only 38 percent of California's 
schools were fully in person.
    In Illinois only 40 percent were in person, New Jersey 23 
percent were fully in person. Despite the well understood 
knowledge of the COVID in that it posed very low risks to 
school children, and the presence of an available vaccine for 
teachers, why do you think schools were so slow to reopen where 
the teachers' union's influence was, and has been the 
strongest?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. As I said at 
the beginning, for me as a father and as an educator, it was 
critical that we open schools as quickly and as safely as 
possible. The Department of Education acted immediately to make 
sure that we provided guidance to schools which was never done 
from the onset of the pandemic until that day, to the sum of 
what we did.
    We have been providing guidance on the safe school 
reopening, and we are proud of the fact that within months over 
98 percent of our schools were safely reopened.
    Mr. Walberg. I see my time has ended. Thank you. I yield 
back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Walberg. Mr. Courtney, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Courtney. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you Mr. 
Secretary for your great service, and your testimony this 
morning. One of the many strengths that I think you have 
brought to this office is that for the first time in history 
you served as Secretary of Education as a graduate of a career 
and technical education high school, Wilcox Tech, where my good 
friend and colleague, Congresswoman Hayes, represents the city 
of Meriden.
    We really are in a moment right now in our economy where a 
career in technical education schools shine. We have a 3.4 
percent unemployment rate, 9.6 million job openings in the U.S. 
economy, and the mission in the curriculum of career and 
technical education is perfectly positioned to help close the 
skills gap to fill many of those positions.
    I had an opportunity to witness that a couple weeks ago at 
a national signing day ceremony at Norwich Tech High School in 
my district where half of the graduating class of Norwich Tech 
signed letters of intent with their parents, their teacher, and 
their new employer, sitting right beside me.
    It was like NFL draft day with a packed auditorium, 
cheering these kids on, signing them up to be electricians, 
painters, a large portion of those were I think as you know, 
signing letters of intent to go work at Electric Board 
Shipyard, which this year has a target of hiring 5,750 people 
between Quantum Point, Rhode Island and Groton, Connecticut to 
fill the bill of Congress's increased demand for submarine 
production.
    Again, you mentioned in your testimony that one of the work 
horses of a career in technical education, which is the Federal 
Perkins Grant Program, received a 43 million dollar increase in 
your budget, bringing it to a total of 1.5 billion, a historic 
level of Federal investment in career and technical education.
    As I heard that day in Norwich, they are turning away 
hundreds of kids who would love to take advantage of the 
benefit of career in technical education, and that is where 
your other initiative, the career connected high school 
program, which you mentioned, would again expand that 
curriculum out to comprehensive high schools, something which 
you and I discussed during a visit there.
    Can you talk again about again this really, I think, 
surgical focus, in terms of trying to address opportunities in 
our economy right now that young people could really benefit 
from?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. I really 
feel strongly that this is an issue where we can come together 
in bipartisan fashion and really transform the opportunities 
that are students have. I think it is critical that we move to 
evolve our education system to be more responsive to the 
options that students are going to have when they graduate.
    I think it is time, as a country, that we come together to 
challenge the 4-year college or bust mentality that still 
exists in many places. I was a technical high school graduate, 
with options. I chose a 4-year college. We need to provide more 
students across this country with options to be--to join 
workforce, or to start with the workforce and then go to a 4-
year college, often times paid for by the employer, right?
    It is about providing options. I joke that my personal 
plumber is doing really well. He happens to be in Aruba today 
while I am testifying, but there are options for our students. 
The career connected high school is making sure that the 
technical career pathways that are available to students, that 
as you said, will lead to jobs, are not available only to 
students in technical high schools.
    We need to make sure that our comprehensive high schools 
provide access to career and college counseling, and pathways. 
I have seen amazing examples in my visits across the country of 
schools that are preparing students for 4 year colleges, but 
are also preparing students for options that exist upon 
graduation, or upon graduation of a 2-year school.
    I have seen comprehensive high schools engage in advisory 
boards with industry partners, so that their curriculum could 
be lined up to what the needs are in the field. We want to 
promote that. We want to make that the norm, not the exception. 
Right now, it seems like technical high schools and very niche 
high schools are doing this.
    All students across the country deserve this opportunity. 
As I have said before, I feel like this is something if we put 
our heads together in a bipartisan fashion, we can really 
transform education.
    Mr. Courtney. Thank you, and again with my remaining 
seconds I think it is important to note that the McCarthy debt 
limit bill, which would put an indiscriminate chainsaw into 
Perkins Grants and career connected high schools is exactly 
what our employers across the country do not want.
    They want to connect people with the right skills to give 
them jobs, careers, that will support themselves and their 
families. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Courtney. Mr. Allen, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Allen. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mr. Secretary, our 
Nation is 32 trillion dollars in debt. We talk about how it is 
all about the children, and it is amazing that we are 
maintaining our standard of living on the backs of future 
generations. Even worse, the Department of Education is dead 
set on enacting costly programs like this mass student loan 
bailout.
    Student loan cancellation will cost every taxpayer in my 
district $3,527.00. Let me say that again. My constituents in 
the 12th District of Georgia may have to pay the Federal 
Government and additional $3,527.00 to cover the cost of 
someone else's student loan.
    Do you believe that canceling student loans will 
financially help Americans who never went to college? Yes or 
no.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question, Congressman 
Allen. I believe the targeted debt relief plan will help 
prevent defaults and get people back on their feet. I also 
believe that the strategies that we are taking in making 
college more affordable----
    Mr. Allen. Sir, yes you believe canceling these loans will 
help folks who actually never went to college.
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, I believe if we help folks get back 
into repayment without falling into default it would help not 
only them, but their local economy.
    Mr. Allen. Do you believe that canceling student loans will 
reduce the amount that students will borrow now that they have 
every incentive to think that the Federal Government will pay 
their loans for them? Yes, or no?
    Secretary Cardona. I believe you are referring to the 
income driven repayment plan. The income driven repayment plan 
that we are proposing is----
    Mr. Allen. I know about the plan, sir, just yes, do you 
believe that you should continue this process?
    Secretary Cardona. We are expanding options for students to 
attend college. There are too many students in this country 
that think college is out of reach for them. We're fixing that.
    Mr. Allen. Do you believe that canceling student loans will 
reduce the amount that colleges charge students? Yes, or no?
    Secretary Cardona. In conjunction with our accountability 
measures, and our efforts to make sure that we are holding 
colleges accountable for a good return on investment, I believe 
that we are working on making college more affordable.
    Mr. Allen. Yes sir, but studies show that increasing 
subsidies to colleges and universities cause the cost of 
college to increase, in fact that is true under every Federal 
program. In my first term in Congress, we passed the Every 
Student Succeeds Act to replace the No Child Left Behind.
    We did this through block grant funds directly to the 
states, and let the states take control of our education. We 
also did this to reduce the size, scope and the budget of the 
Department of Education. President Biden's Fiscal Year 2024 
budget calls for an increase of 10.8 billion in Department of 
Education funding.
    This comes after 190 billion of COVID relief funds sent to 
K through 12 schools to help them reopen and respond to the 
effects of the pandemic. The Department's lack of oversight led 
to their inability to track how funds were being spent. Now 
Congress does not know if these funds were effective for the 
purpose of COVID relief.
    In short, by providing these funds the Department of 
Education, we are effectively throwing money down a dark hole 
while we appropriate even more tax money to the Department of 
Education when the Department has already shown their inability 
to manage the 190 billion in COVID relief funds.
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, I know that the American Rescue 
Plan dollars were a lifeline to districts. In my visits to 
states, I have had parents, students, educators tell me that 
those dollars were the reason why students were able to re-
engage. I am sure in your district as well, many students 
benefited from the American Rescue Plan.
    Mr. Allen. Sir, I am talking about the accountability of 
the funds.
    Secretary Cardona. We have on our website, if you go to 
ed.gov and ARP data transparency link, so that it is very clear 
where the dollars are spent, and we engage regularly with each 
State and make sure that the dollars are going where they were 
intended by Congress.
    Mr. Allen. Well, let me ask you this. Is the Department 
taking any action to change their oversight protocol to ensure 
funds appropriated to them are being spent in ways that were 
intended?
    Secretary Cardona. We take the fiscal responsibility very 
seriously, and we are engaging in processes, and I would be 
happy to have my team share with you very specifically, what we 
are doing, and how we are supporting states using the dollars 
to support students getting back into school, mental health 
supports, and academic recovery.
    Mr. Allen. Well, the reason I asked the question is that we 
would like to explore that oversight. Mr. Secretary, the Biden 
administrations Fiscal Year 2024 budget request proposed a new 
200 million career connect at high schools' competitive grant 
programs. Yes, 16 seconds, how are you going to get these funds 
to rural areas that do not have the expertise to apply for 
these grants?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question. I know that 
time is short, happy to followup. We have a rural community 
practice. We are engaging proactively with our rural 
communities. They deserve the attention and access to the 
grants as well.
    Mr. Allen. Okay. Please respond to that in depth, so that 
we make sure rural America benefits, and with that I yield 
back, Chairman Foxx.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Allen. Mr. Sablan, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Sablan. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. 
Mr. Secretary Cardona, welcome once again. Thank you for your 
service also, and so many of your great ideas.
    Secretary Cardone. Thank you.
    Mr. Sablan. Including the fact that----
    Mr. Scott. Mr. Sablan, could you talk into the mic?
    Mr. Sablan. Including the fact that my good colleagues 
district, 110,100 borrowers would lose access to the PSLF and 
the student forgiveness. Secretary it is really difficult to 
try and figure out how over 14 years I have tried to work as 
much as I can to get programs out to my district, the Northern 
Mariana Islands, and now to see the impact of the proposal, the 
debt reduction proposal where we all go back to the school year 
2022 levels.
    Over many programs which many of my colleagues here will 
bring up today, but for me, Secretary Cardona, the Trio program 
is a long-standing program that provides direct support 
services for over 800,000 underserved students to promote post-
secondary education success.
    In their Default on America Bill, republicans propose to 
significantly slash program's budgets by reverting to Fiscal 
Year 2022 funding levels, what would this mean for the 
administration of the Trio programs, how would students 
enrolled in Trio experience this cut?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question. Without 
question, the reduction to 22 levels would have a negative 
impact on all major programming, in particular, with Trio 
programs there would be a 262 million dollar cut, and it would 
eliminate services for almost 200,000 students that would 
otherwise have access to Trio programs and allow students to 
access higher education.
    Mr. Sablan. Mr. Secretary, I bring up the Trio program is 
an example. I come from a district where many of our population 
are below the poverty level. We need access to Title I 
programs, Pell Grants, all of those different programs that go 
out there, including assistance in feeding our students for 
lunch, at least breakfast.
    All of those would be severely cut, and I do not know how 
we would address this in my district alone. I am talking about 
the Northern Mariana Islands. There, what is happening now is 
really significant for the government, let alone now if these 
cuts--proposed cuts were to occur. This would have impacts on 
the several years ahead of us.
    Bringing some of the investments we have already made at a 
loss. We cannot move forward. We cannot maintain them, and I 
know Mr. Secretary, you brought up a lot of different things in 
some of your, including a letter that you wrote. Tell me, is 
there anything more that you think we--the Department, our 
students, our teachers, our administrators can potentially 
lose?
    Secretary Cardona. Sure. Thank you for that question. Look, 
I think it is important to contextualize this by framing it 
investing in our schools is an investment in our students. 
Right? I likened it to defense. To protect our future, and the 
economic growth of this country, investments in our students, 
in our schools is critical.
    Cuts would limit services. I mentioned career technical 
education, and I mentioned Trio. Mental health support for our 
students. It is important to remember that we are in the middle 
of a youth mental health crisis. Cuts would remove 40 new 
grants, and 300 existing programs that are providing support 
for students and their mental health.
    When we think about these cuts we have to put faces to 
these cuts. This would mean the data showed one in 3 high 
school girls over the last 3 years has considered suicide. One 
in 3. Cutting mental health supports now to levels lower than 
we currently have would mean that more high school girls would 
not have access to that mental health support that they need.
    If we do not put faces to this, it is hard to understand 
the impact that would have on our country. Everyone's district, 
every student would suffer. IDEA, we have over 7 and a half 
million students with disabilities who would not have the 
support that they would have had before. I can go on sir, but I 
know that my time is up.
    Mr. Sablan. Yes.
    Secretary Cardona. Devastating impacts.
    Mr. Sablan. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. Madam 
Chair, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Sablan. Mr. Owens, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you, Secretary, for being here. 
I am going to go back a little bit. My dad received his PhD in 
1951 in soil science, agronomy. I received a BA in biology and 
chemistry in 1975 in biology. I know you graduated in 2001. One 
of the things that we shared in common, my dad and I, even 
though there was a 24-year difference is something called 
organic chemistry.
    Organic chemistry is the study of organic compounds 
property reactions, and predictability, in other words it is 
order. Even though you graduated in a different study 
altogether, would you agree that changes in organic chemistry 
cannot change because we wish it to be so?
    Secretary Cardona. I would want to engage in further 
conversation.
    Mr. Owens. Well no. This is a very simple question. Can we 
change the properties and reactions of organic chemistry 
because we believe that we wish it so. Yes, or no? I mean it is 
your basic common sense what do you think?
    Secretary Cardona. I donnot have enough information in 
organic chemistry.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. Well, I will answer as a scientist. I will 
say no. You cannot change organic chemistry. If we did, we 
would not have a pharmaceutical industry alive today, okay? 
There is another law, a law of gravity. I know that the Biden 
administration believes in executive orders but let me just ask 
you this. Based on equity, is it possible to change the law of 
gravity so blacks are no longer impacted by it? The answer is 
no.
    Secretary Cardona. I am not sure sir.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. Let me just say my point is this. The law 
of gravity is one of God's laws. It is not going to change 
because we wish it so.
    Secretary Cardona. Right.
    Mr. Owens. It is based on predictability. Now, I was a top 
athlete in high school. I went to University of Miami All 
American. Played in the NFL All Pro. It was based on the fact, 
as a man, there are certain things we can predict about me my 
chromosomes, DNA, hormones, muscle mass, bone mass. Would you 
say it would be fair for me any time in this process, from high 
school until 30 years old, that I had a chance to box or 
wrestle with your daughter, competing with your daughter?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman. I think I 
understand now the line of questioning that you are getting to. 
Let me just be very clear here.
    Mr. Owens. Well, I want to make sure I have just a few 
minutes here. The question is would that be fair for me with 
what I just described as a man, because I decided I want to 
change myself to being a woman, that can now compete against 
your daughter?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. My responsibility and my privilege 
to make sure that all students have access.
    Mr. Owens. Let me just say this, I am sorry, please just 
bear with me. Would you say as an 18-year-old young man that 
means my home boys decided we wanted to be woman. Would it be 
okay for your daughter for me to be able to go into your 
daughter's bathroom to expose myself because I felt I was a 
woman? Would that be fair to your daughter?
    Secretary Cardona. Congressman, I see where----
    Mr. Owens. By the way, I have five daughters, so I am very 
passionate about the questions that I asked you right now, and 
I would think there would be no question in your mind as a 
father what these answers should be. There should not be 
hemming and hawing about this. This is--I am talking about your 
daughter now.
    Secretary Cardona. Congressman, there is nothing in our 
proposed Title 9 regulations that determine how bathrooms 
should be used.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. Okay. All right. Let us move on, let us 
move on. There is something here I want to share with 
everybody.
    Secretary Cardona. Sure.
    Mr. Owens. This is called the Cloward-Piven Strategy. 
Something put in place back in 1966, and I hope Americans 
really pay attention to this. It was two Marxists from 
Columbia. Their goal was very simple to propose a--by this way 
this time the democrats owned the House, Senate and 
administration.
    They proposed to create a crisis in the current welfare 
system that would ultimately bring about its collapse and 
replace it with a system of guaranteed annual income, which is 
Marxism. They hoped to accomplish this by informing the poor 
blacks, the blacks, of their rights to welfare and assistance, 
encourage them to apply for benefits, and in fact, overloading 
the already overburdened local and national bureaucracy.
    Would you agree to use misery as a political strategy is 
the essence of evil?
    Secretary Cardona. Congressman, I will be very pleased to 
share how our budget is going to help us.
    Mr. Owens. Right now, I am talking about using misery to 
get an agenda across. Is that evil? I will say let me just say 
this. It is. By the way, the results of this--this is winning 
to the race, created this effort Cloward-Piven, created 
generations of black people for whom working for a living was 
an extraction.
    I came from a community in which we led the country in the 
growth of middle class, men committed to college, men committed 
to marriage. This is what did us in. Political, progressive 
policies that hurt our kids. I want to place in the record 23 
schools in Baltimore have zero proficiency in math.
    I will bet you if your child was in these schools here, you 
would not sit around and say it is okay to leave them there. 
You would do whatever you had to do regardless of your income. 
You would take two or three or four jobs. Poor people have the 
same love for their kids as elitists.
    I want to say that I want to pass and enter this into the 
record, American people are waking up.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
    [The information of Mr. Owens follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Owens. We are going to get this done, and I yield back 
my time.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. Mr. Owens. Ms. 
Bonamici, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, thank you for your 
continued work to support students, and I agree with you about 
the value of investing in education. Needless to say, I am very 
concerned about the cuts that actually republicans have already 
voted for on the floor that will negatively affect student 
learning and pandemic recovery, harm student's mental health, 
cut CTE programs, increase teacher's stress, make college 
education less attainable, and actually diminish opportunities 
to access a high-quality education for our most marginalized 
students, including students of color, students with 
disabilities from low-income families, and those who identify 
as LGBTQI.
    I want to note particularly for the Chairwoman and my 
friends and colleagues on the other side of the aisle. I 
recently participated in a roundtable conversation with parents 
across the country, parents of trans students. It was a very 
meaningful conversation.
    I encourage you to do the same, as you said Mr. Secretary, 
put faces to these stories. I implore you to stop picking on 
trans students. Mr. Secretary, under your leadership the 
Department of Education secured funding for and implemented 
programs to improve school safety, increase wrap around 
services, expand that important access to career and technical 
education, and decrease the cost of college.
    Mr. Secretary, I want to ask you about Title IV (a) of the 
Every Student Succeeds Act, which funds well-rounded education, 
addresses school conditions, including school safety and 
technology access. The increased funding for Title IV (a) from 
the appropriation's process, and also from the bipartisan Safer 
Communities Act has tremendous potential for school 
improvement.
    How are states and school district drawing down that Title 
IV (a) funding, and also the funding from the bipartisan Safer 
Communities Act to compliment and supplement efforts to make 
schools safer and advance well-rounded educational 
opportunities for all students?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Thank you for the question, 
and as an educator safety in schools is always going to be the 
No. 1 priority, especially now when we're seeing so many cases 
of mass shootings, just this morning I learned of another one.
    We are over 225 in this year alone, in this country. 135 
incidents in our schools. 19 of which resulted in death. Safety 
is a critical priority. Title IV dollars, BSCA dollars, 
bipartisan Safer Community Act dollars are really needed for 
our schools to ensure appropriate access to mental health 
supports, making sure that we have more personnel available to 
students who are experiencing trauma, or have experienced 
trauma, or are struggling to help get them the supports they 
need before.
    The dollars are intended to provide professional 
development for educators. Often times the schools are 
overlooked. We can talk a lot about providing support for 
schools, but we omit the importance of making sure that our 
teachers have the professional development that they need.
    You cannot be informed in trauma or given professional 
development for trauma in a 1-hour after school staff meeting. 
The dollars in BSCA, the dollars in Title IV are intended to 
build the capacity of our professional work staff to make sure 
they have the tools they need.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. Thank you for mentioning 
professional development as well. I wanted to just followup 
with a couple of yes or no questions. Will you commit the 
Department's resources, including those available through BSCA 
to working with school districts to improve school safety in a 
manner that incorporates restorative evidence-based practices 
and avoids the overuse of SROs in schools?
    Secretary Cardona. We are certainly working with states 
currently to make sure that they know how to use the BSCA 
dollars to make sure that more resources are available. 
Proactive resources, which include professional development and 
restorative practices.
    Ms. Bonamici. I appreciate that. I have been communicating 
about this issue. Are you willing to followup with me within 8 
weeks to discuss the Department's progress in distributing this 
Title IV (a) funding?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. We will followup.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, as students 
continue to recover from missed learning time, it is important 
for the Department to develop best practices to improve student 
achievement, and to share those practices with educators, 
school leaders, districts and State leaders. How can the 
Federal Government, and the Institute of Education Services 
pursue innovative solutions to address the effects of the 
pandemic on student learning?
    What would budget cuts to education research mean for the 
ability of schools to effectively address missed learning?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that, and I absolutely 
agree with you. We learn best from each other. That is one 
thing that I learned as an educator, that often times the best 
way to get learning to happen is to create conditions where 
folks are learning from each other on shared problems of 
practice.
    We have created different mechanisms for that. Cutting 
funds for IDEAs, and others, would only limit the ability for 
us to engage partners, but also invest in evidence-based 
strategies that we know are aimed at improving instruction, but 
ultimately student outcomes.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you Mr. Secretary, my remaining couple 
of seconds I just want to thank you for your emphasis as well, 
on multi-lingual education, which is not only good for you 
know, a global economy, but it's also good as the brain 
research shows for student learning overall, so thank you 
again, and I yield back the balance of my time.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. Bonamici. Mr. Grothman, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Thanks for coming on over to our 
humble building here. The Federal student loan system is built 
to encourage students to take out as many loans as they can 
without regard to how much they'll be able to repay. Mass 
amounts that students are borrowing is affecting their ability 
to have a family, buy a car, or own a home.
    Only 32 percent of young college graduates with student 
loan debt say they are living comfortably. Do you think a 
student should take out more loans that they will comfortably 
be able to afford?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. I recognize 
that our current system is broken, and we have the 
responsibility to make sure that----
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. People should not take out more loans 
that they could afford, right? Can you agree on that? Can you 
agree people should not take out more loans than they could 
afford?
    Secretary Cardona. Well, it all depends, sir. If you're an 
18-year-old you might have to take loans that you cannot afford 
as an 18-year-old, but eventually when you have a good job you 
can pay for those loans. We are improving our----
    Mr. Grothman. We will give you another question. Are you 
aware that the Higher Ed Act limits financial aid advisers from 
using their expertise in counseling borrowers to borrow less in 
cases where it is obvious the student is taking out too much 
debt? In other words, if I am going to a university and there 
are counselors there and their counselor thinks hey, you could 
make do with $4,000.00 this year, instead of $8,000.00.
    That counselor cannot say you would be better off taking 
out only $4,000.00 in debt. Are you aware of that?
    Secretary Cardona. We are making sure that we are 
communicating with our universities around the practices that 
we feel help students.
    Mr. Grothman. Yes. They cannot do that. You know that is 
against the law right now if you do not know that.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. I would be happy to look into any 
concerns that you have about bad actors in the field.
    Mr. Grothman. Well, it is not bad actors. Yes, I have got a 
bill right now, and I want to see if you will support it. Okay. 
We have these financial aid counselors in the universities, 
okay, and if somebody comes in and says I want to take out the 
maximum amount, I am going to take out $10,000.00 in loans this 
year, it is right now against the law in many cases for the 
counselor to say I think that is foolish, do not take out 
$10,000.00. I think you can swing it on $4,000.00.
    Do you think the local aid counselor should have that 
ability?
    Secretary Cardona. I believe counselors should be able to 
give students accurate information around what they can----
    Mr. Grothman. The accurate information includes the ability 
to say I do not think you should be taking out such a big loan.
    Secretary Cardona. Right. I believe counselors should be 
able to counsel----
    Mr. Grothman. Good, you are going to be able to help me on 
this bill. That is what I want. okay. That is good. Next. Under 
your new proposed income driven repayment plan, borrowers will 
only pay back 63 cents of every dollar they borrow. Moreover, 
according to an analysis by the Urban Institute, just 22 
percent of undergraduate students will fully repay their loans.
    How can call this a repayment plan when barely almost 80 
percent of the undergraduates will not pay the loans they took 
out?
    Secretary Cardona. The income driven repayment plan, and I 
am really excited about this, is going to open access to 
college for so many more students, and the goal is to make sure 
that they can pay their debt based on their income. As their 
income increases, their debt payment increases.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay.
    Secretary Cardona. I have seen too many students, sir, as a 
former educator who ruled out college, intelligent students, 
students who have tremendous potential, rule out college 
because of the fear of the cost. I am proud that we are 
creating a pathway now for all students to feel comfortable, 
and make sure that college costs are not the reason why they 
don't pursue higher education.
    When I think of the talent in this country that is going 
untapped, sir.
    Mr. Grothman. Well first all, I am just going to object for 
a second there. You are implying that if you do not go to 
college your ability is untapped. I think that is a little bit 
snobby in my opinion. I know so many wildly successful 
businessmen who do not go to college, who got a skill, they are 
in construction, they are in trucking, and to say that your 
potential is untapped because you did not go to college, I 
think you are a little bit of snobbery there that I find 
offensive.
    Be that as it may, I want to talk a little bit about 
diversity because we hear a lot about diversity. I know a 
university professor in English, she has been involved in like 
seven different schools. Over 100 different professors of 
English she has dealt with, none of them would he classify as 
politically conservative.
    There was a study by Harvard student newspaper study that 
said only 6.4 percent of the people who responded were 
conservative leaning after attending a private Ivy League 
institution. My friend's experience. Does it concern you when 
you have that little diversity in ideology in major 
universities? Does that bother you?
    Secretary Cardona. Some of my most influential and best 
teachers never attended college.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay well good, I am glad you got that right. 
We will stop running on people who do not go to college because 
I find they sometimes contribute a lot more to society than the 
people who did go to college, so that is good, but the question 
I have for you--does the lack of diversity in thought of both 
of the professors and the college graduates, does that bother 
you?
    Secretary Cardona. I am concerned also at some of the 
attacks on DEI, if that is what you are referencing sir.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Grothman. Mr. Takano, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Madam Chair. As someone who 
remembered my mother, me, yesterday, she never got a college 
degree, and she succeeded very well. She had the good sense to 
tell me you are going to college. Mr. Secretary, I share some 
of my colleagues on the other side's concern about the costs of 
higher education, the costs of post-secondary education.
    That part of the brokenness of the system is you know, more 
and more of the costs of going to school at higher ed is being 
borne by families. We have seen states subsidize a public 
higher ed much less than they did several decades ago. I also 
think that there are bad actors out there.
    I want to ask you about the Higher Education Act, and the 
incentive compensation ban that was instituted several decades 
ago. What do you believe the congressional intent was behind 
this incentive compensation ban?
    Secretary Cardona. I believe it was intended to limit the 
ability for compensation for services that were provided to 
students by third party servicers.
    Mr. Takano. Well would you agree that the incentive 
compensation ban was intended to prevent colleges from behaving 
in unscrupulous ways, and do you know of some of the behaviors 
that Congress noticed at its hearings several decades ago, 
about the behaviors that they were seeking to curb?
    Secretary Cardona. I am having a hard time hearing you. 
Could you repeat the question please?
    Mr. Takano. Okay. I am sorry. Can you--do you know some of 
the behaviors that Congress was attempting to curb with the 
incentive compensation ban?
    Secretary Cardona. I believe some of the behaviors that 
were intended to be curbed were some of the behaviors of third-
party servicers profiting or targeting students for programing 
that is less quality.
    Mr. Takano. Well, that might have been. I mean well are you 
familiar with online program managers? That's something that 
has emerged in the last 10 years?
    Secretary Cardona. I am.
    Mr. Takano. They are known as OPMs. Are you aware that what 
many critics are saying about online program managers, these 
critics are alleging that these program managers are getting 
around the intent of the incentive compensation ban.
    Secretary Cardona. I am aware of them. I believe that 
higher education institutions must be given the opportunity to 
evolve and meet the student where they are. There is an 
increased demand for flexibility in higher education. I think 
higher education institutions are right to evolve to make sure 
they are meeting students where they are.
    With that said, we are in the process of ensuring greater 
oversight to make sure that they are being managed well, so 
that it does not result in what we have experienced with 
borrowed defense, and having upwards of 14 billion dollars in 
loans discharged because students were taken advantage of by 
certain online predatory practices.
    Mr. Takano. Well thank you, thank you. Are you concerned at 
all about how the 2011 bundled service guidance by the Obama 
administration may have opened the door for abuses and 
opportunism by these online program managers?
    Secretary Cardona. I am aware that there have been concerns 
expressed, and that there have been concerns expressed by my 
colleagues on the Hill about the potential negative impact on 
students, yes.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you for that. Critics are charging 
that students are being sold online programs that are 
deceptively marketed as equivalents of the in-person programs 
on campus. Typically financed with debt. Are you concerned that 
online program managers may be inducing colleges to set up 
these online programs as cash cows that mislead and target 
underserved students by aggressively extracting revenue, and 
misrepresenting the value of these programs?
    Secretary Cardona. We are currently in the process of 
rulemaking to make sure we put in the checks and balances that 
are needed while also giving colleges the opportunity to 
explore partnerships that recruit students differently, and 
meet students online needs the way students have asked for.
    Mr. Takano. Well, you know that Representatives DeLauro, 
Jayapal, Mr. Bowman and myself in March, as public comment on 
the incentive compensation ban, we recently co-led a letter. 
Borrowers in a social program offered to the tuition sharing 
agreement between the University of California, and to you, 
duly acting as a public company and an online program manager, 
were left with a median debt of $112,000.00.
    The median salary for their degree was $52,000.00 2 years 
after their completion. I see my time is running out, I just 
wanted to make sure I got that information, and that is the 
sort of behavior we are concerned with, and how this might be 
driving students to an unsustainable debt. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Takano. Mr. Banks, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Banks. Mr. Secretary, in April 2021, your Department 
proposed a rule incentivizing public schools to incorporate 
critical race theory in U.S. history and civics classes. The 
rule cited Ibram X. Kendi's work, and the 1619 project as 
examples of the sort of ideas that the Department would 
promote.
    However, just 3 months later you backtracked on the plan, 
and released a watered down, updated guidance that did not 
mention Ibram X. Kendi, or the 1619 project. Mr. Secretary, why 
did the Department remove references to Ibram X. Kendi and the 
1619 project in its updated guidance?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman, for the 
question. We take the role of supporting our districts and 
schools very seriously, and we know that decisions around 
curricular materials are best left to local districts, and we 
will continue to have that belief as we move forward.
    Mr. Banks. You--the guidance was there telling teachers and 
schools to go teach about Ibram X. Kendi and 1619 project. You 
took it out. Did you take it out because you decided ultimately 
that what they are teaching is inappropriate to teach our kids?
    Secretary Cardona. As I said, Congressman Banks, we take 
the role very seriously of what we have, and the Federal 
Government does not have a role in curriculum. What we 
recognize and what you mentioned illustrates----
    Mr. Banks. I am asking whether or not it is appropriate. 
Mr. Kendi called Justice Amy Coney Barrett a white colonizer 
because she adopted two Haitian children. Do you think that is 
appropriate to teach our kids?
    Secretary Cardona. What I was going to say earlier sir, 
is----
    Mr. Banks. Mr. Kendi also in his book he stated that 
capitalism is essentially racist, so at one point you wanted to 
teach our kids Ibram X. Kendi's findings, and his teachings 
that capitalism is racist. Do you believe capitalism is 
essentially racist?
    Secretary Cardona. What I was going to say, sir, is that 
this issue of even the grant proposal that we put out while we 
don't influence curriculum, has become the target of divisive 
culture wars, and we choose to stay above that, and really 
focus on supporting our districts.
    Mr. Banks. I do not know. Ibram X. Kendi argued that white 
people created the AIDS virus. Is that divisive?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, I would ask you to save the 
questions for perhaps that author. What I would say is----
    Mr. Banks. It was in your original rules proposal. You 
wanted to teach our kids what Ibram X. Kendi and the 1619 
project. The 1619 project teaches that Abraham Lincoln is a 
white supremacist. Is Abraham Lincoln a white supremacist?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, again, you could choose to use your 
time to be divisive, I want to work together.
    Mr. Banks. Mr. Secretary, you in a rules proposal you 
wanted to teach this garbage to our kids. You eventually 
backtracked on it. I was just hoping you would tell us you 
backtracked on it because ultimately you came to the conclusion 
that it is inappropriate to teach our kids critical race 
theory, or some of the garbage that 1619 project, and Ibram X. 
Kendi teach, but apparently you do not want to tell us that 
today.
    Secretary Cardona. Well, you could choose to be divisive 
with your time, sir. I want to talk about what we are trying to 
do for the American people, and what we could do together if we 
focus our efforts on what students and parents need.
    Mr. Banks. Mr. Secretary, how about this? Two weeks ago, 
U.S. students' civics and history scores were released, and 
they were the worst ever in American History. I think one of 
the reasons why is because your administration, in a divisive 
way, wants to teach this kind of garbage to our kids, but let 
me move on.
    Indiana, my home State, recently passed a law at the State 
legislature that banned biological males from competing against 
girls in high school and elementary sports because obviously, 
biological males have some physical traits that would give them 
an advantage in sports over girls.
    The Education Department, your Department, proposed a rule 
change that would pull Federal funding from schools that don't 
allow biological males to compete against girls in sports. Mr. 
Secretary, yes or no, does that mean that your Department would 
take away school lunch programs for needy kids because a State 
or a school will not allow a boy to compete against a girl in 
the sports?
    Secretary Cardona. So, going back to the civics if I could.
    Mr. Banks. Oh no, I am asking you a question. Do you 
support taking away school lunches from kids who go to schools 
where boys are not allowed to play on girl's sport's teams?
    Secretary Cardona. We are promoting the most rigorous, 
intensive academic programming under the Raise the Bar. I would 
love to share more details with you.
    Mr. Banks. Do you support taking away a school lunch from a 
needy kid, a kid who might be the only warm meal they get every 
single day because that school will not allow a boy to compete 
on a girl's sport's team?
    Secretary Cardona. I am proud of the work we are doing.
    Mr. Banks. It is a yes or no question, Mr. Secretary.
    Secretary Cardona. I am proud of the work we are doing to 
make sure that all students----
    Mr. Banks. Madam Chair, the answer is yes. This 
administration would take away school lunches from kids who 
need that lunch, maybe the only warm meal that they might ever 
get because of the radical agenda of this administration. I 
yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Banks. Ms. Adams, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Adams. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like enter into 
the record three letters, one from UNCF, one from the American 
Council of Education, the other from SpelmanCollege that speak 
to some of the issues that they are concerned about regarding 
the services that they want to continue.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
    [The letters of Ms. Adams follow:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Adams. Mr. Secretary, it is good to see you again. 
Thank you for coming to speak with us today about the 
Department's budget, and I would invite you to come back to my 
district again sometime soon. It was a pleasure having you 
there to visit historic JCSU and Corona Creek Elementary.
    Last year we were proud to secure significant wins for 
minority serving institutions, and historically black colleges 
and universities in the Federal omnibus, and several million 
were allocated. It is a program that was originally included in 
the Ignite HBCU Excellence Act, and so I just want to ask you 
to just make a comment or two about the importance of investing 
in R&D infrastructure programs at our schools.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that. Without question, 
investing in research and development at these institutions is 
critical for their continued growth, for their ability to have 
access to grants and contracts, and also to make up for 
historic under investment, and we have seen our HBCUs welcome 
and take advantage of those dollars.
    We see that they have a plan to engage in better 
facilities, to make sure that their students have the same 
access to labs that other institutions have, which would then 
make them more eligible for, as I said before, contracts. We 
are pleased to be able to provide support for that, and we 
recognize the importance of doing that to level the playing 
field.
    Ms. Adams. Thank you. You know, when we look at the even 
though the Ignite did not pass as Ignite, there was 50 million 
going to HBCUs, and we would certainly continue to hope that 
there would be no competition against the HBCUs and MSIs, and 
that HBCUs could stand on their own, and not compete with well-
resourced institutions like University of Texas, or the 
University of California.
    I am curious about whether you have vetted your thinking 
with the experts at UNCF regarding this matter?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. We are in regular conversation with 
our colleagues, UNCF and others around the important needs, and 
the unique needs of HBCUs, and we will continue to work with 
them, and our HBCUs, to make sure that their needs are listened 
to, and that we are acting in a way that supports their 
individual needs.
    Ms. Adams. Right. Thank you. Let me, you were talking about 
the OPMs, and my colleague was just talking about them. I just 
wanted to mention that the online program managers have seen an 
explosion in the number of contracts with school districts and 
institutions of higher education as a result of the pandemic, 
necessitating a move to digital and remote learning.
    UNCF, and many HBCUs have expressed the importance of 
retaining the bundled services exception, and of course letters 
have been sent to you, and these are the ones that we have just 
put into the record, so I hope that you would certainly 
consider--continue to consider those requests.
    Let me ask you about the Department of Education on 
February 15 released two announcements. The first focused on 
incentive compensation guidance. The second sought to 
significantly expand the definition and the reach of third-
party servicer oversight, and of course, again these 
organizations that I have mentioned have continued to express 
concern about it.
    They describe the importance of the current contracting 
flexibilities with third party higher education providers, and 
they have expressed support in preserving the 2011 guidance, 
and so has the Department conducted an analysis of the impact?
    Were any changes to this guidance, and what those changes 
might have on minorities and underserved populations?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. Thank you for that. We recognize 
that there are many different perspectives on this, and we want 
to make sure we are very thoughtful in considering the 
different perspectives, the different scenarios. As I said 
earlier, while I recognize that in many cases students are 
welcoming online opportunities, we also have to make sure that 
the oversight is there so that students are getting a good bang 
for their buck, and a good return on investment for their 
education.
    We are in that process, and we welcome feedback and 
comments from different perspectives, and we will definitely 
take them into account.
    Ms. Adams. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, and thank you for your 
great work. Madam Chair, I yield back. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Dr. Adams. Mr. Good, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Good. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you Mr. 
Secretary for being here. Mr. Secretary, 1 year ago before this 
Committee I asked you for an update on the implementation of AG 
Garland's October 20, 2021, memo to the FBI asking them to 
investigate parents who were expressing concern about the 
education of their children in government schools, which their 
tax dollars are funding, as you know.
    This is the same DOJ that arrests and jails peaceful pro-
life protestors, that targets Catholic churches in Richmond, 
Virginia, near my district. You stated a year ago when I asked 
you about it that your staff may have received information on 
implementation of the memo, but you had not personally received 
that.
    It has now been a year. Have you since received an update 
on the implementation of AG Garland's memo directing the FBI to 
investigate parents?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. Are you 
asking me if I have received an update from----
    Mr. Good. Yes. Have you received an update on that memo on 
what is the status of the FBI targeting, or investigating 
parents who express their concerns at school board meetings?
    Secretary Cardona. Have I received an update from my staff, 
or from the DOJ?
    Mr. Good. Have you--what kind of an update have you 
received? What is the status? What is your understanding of the 
status of the FBI efforts to investigate parents who show up to 
school board meetings?
    Secretary Cardona. There is no update of anything regarding 
that. There is no involvement in the NSBA letter from the 
Department of Education. As a matter of fact, we strongly 
support engaging with families and parents, especially at the 
Board level.
    Mr. Good. You know the subject of that memo in October of 
21 was partnership among Federal, State, local, tribal and 
territorial law enforcement to address threats against school 
administrators and board members, teachers and staff. It begins 
with in recent months there has been a disturbing spike in 
harassment, intimidation and threats of violence against school 
board administrators, board members, teachers and staff who 
participate in the vital work of running our Nation's public 
schools. Was that true?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, you are referencing a letter of 2 
years ago.
    Mr. Good. Was that true?
    Secretary Cardona. Can you repeat that?
    Mr. Good. Are you aware of this big upswing in violence and 
intimidation and threats directed at school board members, 
teachers and staff? Was that true?
    Secretary Cardona. I am focusing now sir, on making sure 
schools are getting----
    Mr. Good. You cannot verify that, or confirm that being the 
Secretary of Education that--that is true?
    Secretary Cardona. Right now, sir, in 2023, our focus is in 
making sure that our school boards have enough dollars to 
provide the funding to their schools.
    Mr. Good. Do you support AG Garland's directive targeting 
parents who show up and express their concerns at school board 
meetings?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, if you have questions for the 
Department of Justice, I would ask you----
    Mr. Good. You are the Secretary of Education. Do you 
support his memo targeting parents who show up at school board 
meetings to express their concerns?
    Secretary Cardona. I have complete confidence that our 
Department of Justice is well positioned to----
    Mr. Good. You do not support it apparently. You are not 
saying you support that.
    Secretary Cardona. I believe that they are well within 
their rights to do what they feel is necessary. My focus is 
on----
    Mr. Good. Do you think we should turn over parents to law 
enforcement if they show up to school board meetings to express 
concern about what is happening in their kid's schools?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Let me tell you what I feel. 
I feel parents are critical partners in the process of 
educating their children.
    Mr. Good. Do you think parents have primary responsibility 
for the education of their kids?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely.
    Mr. Good. Primary authority for the education of their 
kids?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely.
    Mr. Good. Okay. When a parent shows up to a school board 
meeting to express concerns, do you think that the DOJ and the 
FBI ought to respond by targeting those parents?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, I believe parents engagement in 
board meetings, in school functions,----
    Mr. Good. Okay. You are not saying yes. I presume that you 
do not support that. Now, you as Secretary of Education, have 
you done anything to help protect the First Amendment rights of 
parents who show up and express their concern at school board 
meetings without threat, or fear of threat of retaliation from 
the government or law enforcement? Have you done anything to 
help protect that?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes.
    Mr. Good. What have you done to help protect that?
    Secretary Cardona. We communicate regularly with all 
stakeholders, including parents, including board officials, 
around the importance of engaging parents at a higher level 
than even before the pandemic because I think parents know 
better than anyone else what the needs of the child are, and 
their engagement is critical.
    Mr. Good. Well, I am glad to hear you say that. We 
certainly agree that parents know best. This October 4 memo 
from two and a half years ago, or a year and a half ago is just 
another example of how this DOJ, under AG Garland has become a 
politically focused weaponized justice system.
    In fact, you see in my office was recently made aware of a 
report that staff and associates of Loudoun County school, in 
fact they are in the national news all the time aren't they, it 
is a classic textbook example of education gone awry here at 
the local level.
    They have orchestrated a campaign of smear attacks. Their 
school board against harassment, intimidation against local 
parents. Of course, as you probably know, they posted on 
Facebook threats against parents, it was in a Facebook group 
saying things like it a school board, you know, lives need to 
be ruined beyond repair.
    I am so ready to show up with guns, lol. Do you think it is 
appropriate for parents for comments like this to be directed 
at parents?
    Secretary Cardona. Well parents have the right to 
communicate and be present at board meetings. I support parents 
of communicating their thoughts, and their displeasure with the 
board.
    Mr. Good. Would you support an investigation into this what 
has happened in Loudoun County's schools just recently, would 
you support an investigation for that?
    Secretary Cardona. We have, the Office for Civil Rights, 
that investigates if complaints are made, and we're happy to 
followup on any complaints that are alleged.
    Mr. Good. Would you support an investigation into this?
    Secretary Cardona. If a complaint toward our Office for 
Civil Rights was filed, I would.
    Mr. Good. Thank you very much. I yield back, Madam 
Chairman.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Good. Ms. Jayapal, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. Before I get started 
with my comments, I just wanted to express my surprise that my 
republican colleague from Indiana, Mr. Banks, was so concerned 
about stripping school lunches, and I wanted to remind this 
Committee, and anyone that might be watching, that last year 42 
republicans voted against providing school lunches for kids, 
and Mr. Banks was one of them.
    In fact, across the country we have seen republican 
legislators in State legislatures trying to strip school 
lunches away from kids, so I am just surprised at the concern, 
and I hope that perhaps, that means we can have bipartisan--
complete bipartisan support.
    We did have bipartisan support last time, but complete 
bipartisan support for providing school lunches. Secretary 
Cardona, thank you for the work you are doing. Thank you for 
being here today. Higher education of all kinds is no longer 
affordable for many Americans. Nearly 44 million borrowers have 
1.6 trillion dollars in Federal student debt, and middle-income 
borrowers owe an average of $43,000.00.
    Recognizing this crisis, President Biden's student debt 
relief plan will cancel up to $20,000.00 in student debt for 
over 40 million borrowers from low-and middle-income families. 
Despite these benefits to working families, my republican 
colleagues want to stop this transformative plan.
    Just last week in this Committee republicans advanced a 
disapproval resolution to reverse the payment pause, and block 
relief without advancing any higher ed reforms to reduce costs. 
Here is a lot of misinformation from my colleagues across the 
aisle. I think it is important to correct the record and run 
through exactly who would benefit from the administration's 
student debt relief plan.
    Is it correct that 90 percent of republicans, excuse me, 90 
percent of recipients of this plan earning less than $75,000.00 
would benefit?
    Secretary Cardona. That is true, and some are republican.
    Ms. Jayapal. Some are republican, yes. I am going to get to 
that actually. What is the income cap on beneficiaries that 
would benefit?
    Secretary Cardona. $125,000.00 would be the cap.
    Ms. Jayapal. No one earning above $125,000.00 is going to 
be benefit. Relief is not just among younger working Americans, 
right? How would older, retired Americans benefit from debt 
relief?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. Older folks who have debt would 
also benefit from this, so it is not just intended for the 
younger folks.
    Ms. Jayapal. In fact, older Americans owe a quarter of 
Federal student debt, and 7 million borrowers age 50 and up 
either owe, or are paying for a loved one. Is that correct?
    Secretary Cardona. That is correct.
    Ms. Jayapal. We know that one in six Americans living in 
rural areas represented by many of my colleagues across the 
aisle have fallen into delinquency or default. Tell us about 
the rural borrowers who would benefit from the debt relief 
plan.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. I have visited rural communities 
and spoken to educators and folks who are trying to get back on 
their feet after the pandemic in rural communities. I would 
argue rural communities were impacted maybe more significantly 
due to lack of access of broadband, and other things, so this 
would definitely help them get back on their feet as well.
    Ms. Jayapal. It is clear that the administration's plan to 
cancel student debt would be far reaching, and targeted at 
those most in need, and I just find it a stunning hypocrisy 
that my colleagues across the aisle might want to stop this 
plan, even as we know of at least 12 republican members who 
oppose this relief but receive 22 million dollars in total from 
PPP forgiveness.
    Madam Chair, I would like to enter into the record a list 
of republican Members of Congress whose PPP loans were 
forgiven, this is from the Center for American Progress Action, 
and a list of the annual labor 118th members from the debt 
collective, that shows that they paid for college when they 
went, and what it costs today, as well as includes those 
members who got PPP loans forgiven by the government.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
    [The information of Ms. Jayapal follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. Now as we approach the end of the 
loan payment pause, borrowers are expected to start repayments 
in the coming months. How would debt cancellation help these 
borrowers before returning to repayment?
    Secretary Cardona. It would cancel out debt for many up to 
20 million borrowers would no longer have debt and would be 
able to get back on their feet. Again, it is important to 
remember the purpose of this was to prevent defaults, and make 
sure that folks are not worse off now than they were before the 
pandemic.
    It would definitely address, as I said before, about 20 
million would no longer have payment.
    Ms. Jayapal. This resolution that republicans advanced out 
of Committee that would block critical relief and retroactively 
end the payment pause between September and December of last 
year, how feasible would it be for servicers to prepare and 
prevent borrowers who are expecting the pause to end later this 
year from defaulting?
    Secretary Cardona. That would increase the likelihood of 
default significantly.
    Ms. Jayapal. The resolution could also limit your 
Department's ability to quickly issue a new pause as the last 
administration did twice. How long would it take your 
Department to issue a pause in the future emergency if you had 
to go through the rulemaking process?
    Secretary Cardona. It would significantly delay putting 
many borrowers in default. It is important to remember that the 
actions here under the Hero's Act, it is consistent with what 
was done in the previous administration. We are using the 
Hero's authority that I am given, and I use that waiver. There 
was no objection the last administration, there should not be 
any now.
    Ms. Jayapal. That is right. Thank you so much Secretary 
Cardona. I really applaud the work you and your Department have 
done, and continue to do for all our students across the 
country. Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. Jayapal. Ms. McClain, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you Mr. 
Secretary for being here. I am just amazed. I talk, I hear my 
mom talking in the back of my brain, she is on that shoulder, 
she always said Lisa, if you make a deal, you got to hold up 
your end of the bargain.
    Lisa, if you have a right to something, you have an 
obligation as well. It seems like we want to pick up one end of 
the stick, but not the other, so I want to just take a moment 
and since it is Mother's Day, and thank my mom for all the 
wisdom and guidance that she has given me on rights and 
responsibilities, and if you pick up one end of the stick, you 
pick up the other, so thanks mom.
    Switching gears a minute, in 2021 you had a hearing before 
this Committee, and you said you believed all colleges, right, 
should be treated equally. Is that still your position?
    Secretary Cardona. I do.
    Mrs. McClain. Awesome. I want to protect the students and 
the taxpayers but give--but the idea that the Department can 
act unilaterally to forgive student debt using the borrower 
defense program to discharge student debt to me is alarming. It 
is concerning, and I hear my mom in the back of my head.
    Mr. Secretary, I am trying to get some data before I just 
talk about opinions. Do you know, or can you tell me how many 
public universities have had claims approved under the loan 
discharge program?
    Secretary Cardona. Are you saying the borrow defense 
actions?
    Mrs. McClain. Yes.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. I could have my staff reach out to 
you with specifics about that, but the borrower defense----
    Mrs. McClain. Wonderful.
    Secretary Cardona. Is really protecting students from bad 
actors that are some of the----
    Mrs. McClain. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think there is bad 
actors in public universities, private universities, I mean 
you're always going to find bad actors. I wish we were all 
perfect, but that is not the world we live in. Do you have, or 
can you get me the data on the amount of number of career 
colleges that have also had claims approved?
    Secretary Cardona. Sure. We would be happy to followup with 
you.
    Mrs. McClain. Okay. When can I expect that?
    Secretary Cardona. Well, we engage in feedback and 
communication with the Committee regularly, so we will make 
sure we act in good faith to continue that communication to get 
the information you----
    Mrs. McClain. July 1st do you think we should at least have 
it?
    Secretary Cardona. I will have my team reach out to your 
team very soon to share when you could expect that.
    Mrs. McClain. I am sorry. You have no idea when you are 
going to be able to get me the data?
    Secretary Cardona. Well, you know, we have 45 letters that 
were sent to us, and we are working in good faith to make sure 
we communicate.
    Mrs. McClain. It is really simple. I am just trying to get 
the data on how many public universities and private 
universities have had claims approved under this loan discharge 
program.
    Secretary Cardona. I am sure that information could be 
gathered, and I will have my team reach out to yours.
    Mrs. McClain. I appreciate that. I am kind of looking for a 
date.
    Secretary Cardona. That is fine. I will have my team reach 
out to yours to share with you a date that you can receive that 
information. It is important that you have the information.
    Mrs. McClain. I would agree too, and with as much money as 
we give the Department of Education, and as much as we care 
about the students, I would think somebody has this data. I 
mean, you want to say August 1st. I mean that is like 3 months, 
I would think we could be able to get this data in a 3-month 
period of time.
    Secretary Cardona. We think it is really important to 
communicate with you, and I will have my team reach out to 
yours to share a timeline of when we can get that information 
to you.
    Mrs. McClain. Am I the only one that things that--OK, all 
right. Well, thank you for your speedy expedience on this. 
Okay. I understand that there is also been a lot of FOIA 
requests made by private organizations and institutions trying 
to get information on these claims, and have not received them 
yet.
    Has your Department been processing and responding to these 
requests?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely.
    Mrs. McClain. Okay.
    Secretary Cardona. The Department of Education is committed 
to being very clear and providing information with oversight. 
We take that very seriously; we are very responsive.
    Mrs. McClain. You just do not take the timeline seriously.
    Secretary Cardona. We have provided over 2,400 pages of 
documents in this Congress alone. We have responded to 45 
letters this Congress alone, and we are going to continue to 
take that very seriously because oversight is important.
    Mrs. McClain. How many employees do you have in your 
department, and what is your budget?
    Secretary Cardona. Roughly under 4,000.
    Mrs. McClain. Under 4, Okay. Okay. I am going to take that 
as a yes, you have been processing and responding to these FOIA 
requests?
    Secretary Cardona. We take that very seriously.
    Mrs. McClain. That is a great answer to a question I did 
not ask, so can we just stick with the question. Yes or no. I 
mean we learned that early in education. Has your Department 
been processing and responding to the FOIA requests? Yes, they 
have, no they have not, I will even accept an I don't know.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. We take FOIA requests very 
seriously, and we have been responding.
    Mrs. McClain. Yes.
    Secretary Cardona. We take FOIA requests very seriously and 
we have been responding.
    Mrs. McClain. What color is your suit?
    Secretary Cardona. I would be happy to focus on the budget.
    Mrs. McClain. I am just starting to figure out if we can 
answer a question, okay.
    Secretary Cardona. I would be happy to speak----
    Mrs. McClain. All right. Madam Chair, I think this 
information is vital, not only for the oversight role, but also 
to understand the President's request for a 600 percent 
increase in the budget in the student financial aid office. I 
hope that you are willing to work with me to get this data from 
the Department, and get it in actually a timely fashion for the 
American taxpayers.
    With that Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. McClain. I intend to try to 
pursue this a little bit myself. Ms. Wild, you are recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you, 
Secretary, for being here. I have to applaud your patience and 
decorum throughout this hearing. As we sit here, primaries in 
my home State of Pennsylvania are taking place, and some of the 
most important races in Pennsylvania right now, and across the 
country are school board races.
    As I sit here having already voted by mail, I am hearing 
reports of people at polling places who are harassing voters 
with ridiculous claims, many of which are the same that you 
have heard talked about here, including you know, claims of 
teachers grooming students, and just so many outrageous claims 
that really I think do a disservice to public education in 
general, to the teaching profession.
    I feel as though your job, and the job of our educators has 
been made much harder than it should be. Public education is 
just so important, and you know, I really believe that you and 
the vast majority of our educators are incredibly committed and 
dedicated to students, and to the parents.
    I sit here as a mother of a 27 and 30-year-old, but I was 
involved in their parent teacher organization throughout both 
of them being in elementary school, as were many other parents, 
mostly mothers. I was a working mother, and made a point of 
being involved, and was never in any way impaired from being 
involved in my children's education, and was able to weigh in 
on sit through classes, whatever needed to be done.
    I would suggest that people's time could be used much more 
productively if they got involved in their children's schools, 
which is very much needed. I am sorry that this has become such 
a divisive and hostile issue.
    It is not surprising that we are losing scores of teachers 
every single year at a time when we obviously need more. I am 
going to shift gears because we had the pleasure in 
Pennsylvania 7 of having you visit one of our wonderful two 
community colleges. We had a great day there, and I am a real 
fan of community college education.
    What I would like to hear from you is just some discussion 
of the advantages to our society at large, not just to 
students, but to our society at large of providing affordable, 
or preferably free, community college education. Take it away.
    Secretary Cardona. You know, it really is just about 
opportunities. I really feel, and I have spoken to mayors, to 
Governors, college presidents, that recognize community 
colleges are really economic drivers for the community. I 
remember visiting recently Columbia, Ohio, Columbus State 
Community College, and we were on a panel.
    The K-12 superintendent was there. The 2-year college 
president was there. I think it was the vice president of Intel 
was there because they're investing there. The coherence 
between their shared goals, and strategy will lead to students 
that attend those schools to graduate without debt, with six 
figure jobs.
    They are going to be contributing to the economy. I think 
this is an investment that pays for itself. What we are doing 
is ensuring that our K-12 schools have a through line to 2-year 
schools, our industry partners, and our 4-year schools, because 
as we are talking about some of this invest in America, these 
many cases bipartisan plans, they are going to require that we 
have many jobs.
    We need to make sure that we are preparing the next 
generation's workforce, and community colleges are the best 
tool to get that done.
    Ms. Wild. Well not surprisingly, I completely agree with 
you, and I have learned much more about our community colleges 
since being in Congress, and what I hear from our employers 
throughout Pennsylvania 7 is just how valuable they are to the 
employers, that they can quickly pivot and create a new 
training program, a new field that is needed by employers, as 
we continue to hopefully really get manufacturing back into 
this country. I think they are going to prove to be even more 
important.
    Secretary Cardona. Excellent.
    Ms. Wild. I really want to see those doors open to 
everybody as much as possible. Thank you for your commitment to 
community colleges. I have so much more I would love to discuss 
with you, but of course as usual, our time is up. With that I 
yield back, thank you.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. Wild. The Secretary has 
asked for a short break, so I am going to say 5 minutes because 
I want to get through as much of this hearing as we possibly 
can before we go to vote, so we will take a 5-minute break.
    [Recess.]
    Chairwoman Foxx. The meeting will come back to order. Ms. 
Miller, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Miller. Thank you. Mr. Secretary.
    Secretary Cardona. Hello.
    Mrs. Miller. Why does the Biden administration believe our 
daughters should be forced to compete against biological men in 
high school sports?
    Secretary Cardona. I believe we have the responsibility to 
ensure that all students can engage in all aspects of public 
school, including athletics without fear, without having to be 
discriminated against, and that is what we are proposing in our 
Title IX proposals. What we are saying is you cannot have 
blanket bans; however, we do provide--we allow for local input 
in the process.
    We have taken questions--we have taken comments for the 
last month. The comment period ended yesterday, and what we 
feel we are doing is making sure that no students are feeling 
discriminated against, especially since there has been a public 
attack on students----
    Mrs. Miller. Well, there are feelings among the girls, 
among our daughters, that they are being ignored. Title IX, the 
purpose of Title IX was to give our daughters opportunities. 
Opportunities to win championships, and earn scholarships, and 
by ignoring this and allowing men into our girls' athletics, we 
are canceling those opportunities.
    Not only that, in some of our girls sports like volleyball, 
they have been injured. If men can compete against our girls, 
it erases this ability. Anyway, I would like to get on to the 
bathrooms. We have got an issue here. Could you tell me does 
the Biden administration think it is appropriate to allow 
biological males to shower in the girl's bathroom?
    To allow schools to have biological men in the girl's 
showers and locker rooms?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. I will be happy to answer 
that question. I want to make reference to where we agree. 
Title IX has been excellent in giving more opportunities for 
girls. High School girl athletes have gone from 150,000 in 1972 
when Title IX was passed, to over 3 million today, so you are 
absolutely right.
    With regard to----
    Mrs. Miller. They are very discouraged right now. I have 
talked to coaches, and athletes. The girls are very discouraged 
when they spend years preparing and they are being canceled out 
by biological males being allowed to participate but let us get 
on to the bathrooms because that is a hot topic right now.
    What we want to know is does the Biden administration 
believe it is appropriate for schools to allow biological men 
in the girl's locker rooms, and in their showers?
    Secretary Cardona. The athletics proposed rulemaking 
process is about athletic team eligibility. There is no 
language in there about bathrooms. Those decisions are made to 
local--are made by local boards and local states.
    Mrs. Miller. Well sir, you are a policy setter. You put out 
guidance, and we have rules that are coming from you, and 
actually I brought some with, and I would like to enter them, 
Madam Chairwoman, into the record, your own guidance that talks 
about bathroom policy. Actually, multiple states have had to 
sue you to keep you from enforcing these policies.
    You created this mess. It did not just happen, but okay, 
let us go on then, can you say unequivocally, that biological 
males should never be allowed in girl's locker rooms and 
showers? Just answer yes or no, should they be allowed, or 
should they not be allowed in there?
    Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
    [The information of Mrs. Miller follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Secretary Cardona. As I said before, you are asking 
questions on something that were not in our proposed rules. I 
would love to work with you on how we can take into 
consideration.
    Mrs. Miller. Absolutely, sir, you all created this mess. It 
did not happen out of nowhere. Under the Trump administration 
Secretary DeVos, she was able to say unequivocally that girls 
should never have to shower in front of a biological male, and 
they should not be allowed in their locker rooms, and you have 
created it.
    It is in your guidance. Multiple states have sued you to 
keep you from enforcing this. I would like you to State yes or 
no, will you say unequivocally that biological men do not 
belong in our girls' locker rooms and showers?
    Secretary Cardona. We absolutely, as a father, and as an 
educator, absolutely support making sure that boys and girls 
use different showers. That is common sense. What I will say 
though, is that we have the responsibility also to ensure that 
all students feel safe and welcome in their schools.
    Mrs. Miller. Yes. Right. We want our girls to feel safe, 
and because of your guidance, your rules, the Biden 
administration's policies have been pushing this, creating this 
mess. We have multiple cases where girls have been assaulted, 
where they have been traumatized because there have been 
biological men in their locker rooms and showers.
    In my State of Illinois, and at Waterloo High School, girls 
were forced to use the nurse's office if they did not want to 
share a bathroom with men, and then they were disciplined for 
not using the same bathroom. You are trying to dodge and 
conceal your position because you know parents are horrified 
that the Biden administration wants to force our daughters to 
compete against biological males in sports, and shower with 
them in the bathrooms.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. Miller. Ms. McBath, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. McBath. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Secretary 
Cardona, thank you so much for visiting with us once again 
today, and as much as republicans want to say otherwise, you 
are not trying to break the system.
    Your Department really is taking real steps to make it 
truly work for working families, and every American who has 
been completely left behind by a higher education system that 
continues to be pay for play. I am proud to stand by you, and 
President Biden in our fight to make sure that our higher 
education system is more equitable, and I am disappointed by 
efforts in Congress to roll back you know, all the important, 
and just really popular steps that have been taken by your 
agency.
    While every single House republican recently voted to pass 
a debt limit bill that reduces the maximum Pell Grant by about 
15 percent and cancels the student debt relief that working 
families in the State that I represent, Georgia, are counting 
on. House democrats, and Secretary Cardona, you are trying to 
do just the opposite.
    Instead of cutting programs like Pell and attempting to 
decrease the maximum award for the first time in over 30 years, 
we are trying to expand upon them. Instead of trying to balance 
the budget on the backs of those who cannot afford to go to 
college, we are taking real steps to even the odds for the 
hard-working families across the country.
    The Pell Grant covers the lowest percentage of the cost of 
a college education in the history of the program, at just 30 
percent of the estimated cost of a 4-year institution's cost, 
and if it were up to House republicans it would count--it cover 
even less. It would count for even less than that. A college 
degree, or credentials continue to be the surest path to 
economic security for Americans, and we must do more as a 
country to make sure that we are ensuring that every student 
has the resources necessary to follow that path.
    Now there are over 122,000 real people in my district in 
Georgia, that quality for some sort of student debt relief 
under the President's debt forgiveness program. That is more 
than just about any other members in this room, and I do know 
that to be a fact because we checked.
    These people are not just numbers. These are the nurses 
that take care of us when we cannot take care of ourselves, and 
the teachers that you trust to teach your kids, and to keep 
them safe in school. More than 80,000 people in my district who 
applied for these funds, or who were automatically approved, 
are counting on them to come through. That is what is really 
the harm here. For the last 50 years students whose families 
cannot afford to pay for college have relied on Pell to be 
there for them. It is alarming to see that every republican on 
the House, in the House would go on record supporting cuts to 
Pell at a time where in this country, you know, already the 
Pell Grant covers the lowest share of the cost of a college 
education in the history of the program.
    Their proposal would eliminate Pell for thousands of 
students in Georgia and cut the maximum award by nearly 
$1,000.00 for the 640,000 plus students in my State who still 
qualify for Pell. Secretary, please take your time. Please 
expound once again for us as much as you possibly can. No trick 
questions for you.
    Can you share more about the economic significance of Pell, 
and the negative impact that these cuts would have on working 
families?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. Thank you for that. You know Pell 
helps level the playing field for students, so that their 
participation in higher education is based on their ability, 
not on their wealth. It opens the doors to students, many times 
first generation college students, to not only change their 
life's trajectory, but also the trajectory of their own 
children.
    As I said earlier, it allows us to really maximize on the 
talent that we have in our schools. Many times, students feel 
like they are not going to even consider college. I have had 
experiences where I talked to parents who as young as 
elementary school said that their children cannot go to college 
because they cannot afford it, and they fear the costs.
    Pell allows students to have access to higher education, to 
higher earning potential. We know college graduates make on 
average a million dollars more over the course of their life, 
than students who graduate high school and do not go on to. We 
are trying to open up access to higher education, whether that 
is through universal community college, which we know is an 
economic driver for communities.
    Four-year colleges, which we know provides students 
pathways to economic stability. We are trying to open doors. 
Pell does that. Especially because it focuses on students who 
are most financially in need.
    Mrs. McBath. Thank you, and I yield.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Ms. Steel, you are recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Steel. Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx, for hosting this 
hearing, and thank you Secretary Cardona for participating 
today. For a long time, the CCP has spent millions of dollars 
and also our tax money went in backing Confucius Institutes to 
promote the CCP propaganda, and they pressure universities to 
censure any criticism of the Chinese government.
    The CCP has been infiltrated in our universities. We must 
ensure the CCP cannot gain access to sensitive research 
happening on our campuses. In many cases research is funded by 
the Federal Government. I have legislation to identify and 
remove hostile actors that are deemed a foreign intelligence 
threat to higher education and set the reporting gift threshold 
from Section 117 to $5,000.00 or lower, so that we may be aware 
of foreign investments in our universities.
    Mr. Secretary, the Education Department recently published 
a notice seeking comment on whether Section 117 institution 
reporting is necessary to proper functions of the Department, 
and whether the information will be processed and used in a 
timely manner.
    I understand that reporting foreign gift donations is not 
aa popular topic for institutions, but if information on 
foreign funding is not reported to the Department, apart from 
releasing a new web page that serves as a repository for old 
guidance, and increase for Section 117, how do--we cannot adopt 
to understand how our foreign adversaries are asserting their 
influence on college campuses? How does the Biden 
administration propose to protect our sensitive research from 
our greatest adversaries?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question, 
Congresswoman Steel. I agree with you wholeheartedly that this 
is an area of importance, and that we must make sure we protect 
the intellectual property of the United States and our campuses 
from foreign threats, and we take those very seriously. We have 
improved the system for transparency and accountability under 
Section 117, and we are working really hard to ensure 
compliance of reporting, which has been in the books for 20 
years but has not really been kept up.
    We are proud that we have 34,000 filings of public gifts in 
the last 2 years, which is we are on track to be the 
administration with the most filings, and this is all in part 
to demonstrate our--the importance we place on protecting 
American interests and reducing potential foreign influence on 
our college campuses.
    Mrs. Steel. Seems like CCPs beliefs are stealing, and it is 
faster and cheaper when they are actually working on their own 
technology, especially our universities and they are inside of 
our universities and try to steal that research, so it is 
really important. Mr. Secretary, I am sure you would agree that 
it is essential to visit schools in person to learn firsthand 
how they are doing and what needs they have.
    You have also said on many occasions that you support all 
high quality schools, including public charter schools. It is 
very important in Orange County, and they are very successful. 
To my knowledge, and please correct me if I am wrong, you have 
never visited a charter school while Secretary of Education, 
even with half of the students in D.C. attending charter 
schools. Will you commit to visiting charter schools before the 
end of this year, especially after COVID? This is really 
important to see that these kids are in school and they are 
learning totally different than regular public schools, and it 
is really, really amazing that charter schools are doing much 
better than any other schools.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congresswoman Steel. I agree, 
charter schools do provide an option for students and parents. 
Sometimes they focus on specific learning programs or specific 
sciences. Public charter schools are definitely examples of 
schools that are tailored toward meeting specific needs that 
parents are seeking. I do commit to visiting a charter school. 
Throughout my career as an educator, not only as Secretary but 
previously, I have seen charter schools, public charter schools 
serve the public and meet the needs of families.
    There is support for them, but also, I do commit if I had 
not visited. I have visited over hundreds of schools. If I have 
not visited one, I do commit to visiting a charter school.
    Mrs. Steel. Please come visit Orange County charter 
schools, that they are very successful. My time is up. I yield 
back.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Thank you, Congresswoman Steel. 
Congresswoman Hayes, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you. Thank you, Secretary Cardona for 
being here today, and for your seriousness at focusing on the 
issues at hand. I will say that is a very nice blue suit that 
you are wearing. I was also happy to hear today in Committee 
that Mr. Banks, like myself, also cares about making sure that 
children have warm meals when they go to school. It is 
something that is deeply personal to me, and an issue that I am 
committed to fighting for in this Congress, so looking forward 
to some bipartisan support on this issue.
    I would like to switch gears today and focus my questioning 
on early childhood education. The Head Start program is one of 
the greatest anti-poverty initiatives in American history. Six 
decades after its founding, Head Start has served 38 million 
children, including me. Head Start participants are 12 percent 
less likely to live in poverty as adults, and 29 percent less 
likely to receive Public Assistance.
    Connecticut has 86 Head Start and Early Head Start Centers 
serving approximately 5,000 children. Unfortunately, in 2019 
about 100,000 children lived in poverty in Connecticut, which 
means that around 95,000 children did not receive access to 
early math and reading readiness or immunizations, dental and 
medical care that Head Start provides.
    Nationally, only 10 percent of eligible children and their 
families have access to Head Start programs. In the fiscal 2024 
budget, President Biden allocated $500 million for a 
demonstration program in the Department of Education to create 
or expand free high-quality preschool in schools or community-
based settings, including programs like Head Start, for 
children eligible to attend Title I schools.
    In the State of the Union, I was especially pleased to hear 
President Biden make the case for universal pre-K and raises in 
teacher's pay. He said, and I quote, ``The way to put America 
back on top and create the best-educated workforce is to make 
it so preschool for three and 4 year-olds is universal.'' Dr. 
Cardona, I know you understand that the earlier children attend 
school, the better their academic outcomes are, and the quicker 
parents can return to the workforce.
    Can you tell us about what policy the Department is putting 
forth to improve access to pre-K for kids?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely. Thank you for that and, you 
know, as teachers that we are, we recognize and we saw in our 
classrooms the students who had access to it and students who 
did not, and oftentimes the students who did not required some 
level of intervention to catch up. We, as you mentioned, have 
in our budget a proposal for close to half a billion dollars to 
expand preschool and early childhood experiences, and at the 
Department recognize that it is incumbent upon us to work with 
HHS to make sure that we are connecting the dots, and that we 
are modeling what we want to see in our states.
    Early childhood education is critical, especially when it 
is connected to the K-12 system, so that the experience that 
pre-kindergarten students have, whether that is run through HHS 
and their programs or the programs that are run in the 
community, are connected to the kindergarten program, so the 
students and educators are--the educators are communicating, so 
that the students' experience is a positive one.
    We are big on the science of how children learn best. We 
know the science around how children earn best, play-based 
activities where they are using oral language. I can continue 
but I am sure you have other questions. It is an area of 
passion of mine.
    Mrs. Hayes. Well no, but I would like to give you some time 
to address the outlandish statement that was made on this 
Committee today. Quote, ``If me and my home boys decided to 
become girls and expose ourselves to your daughter, how would 
you feel about that?'' I just want to say it for the record 
that no Democrat, no functioning adult wants that, and you, Dr. 
Cardona, as a public school teacher, a public school 
administrator, as the parent of public school children, can you 
tell us what policies the Department is putting forth to 
support all students who attend our schools?
    Secretary Cardona. Right. Well, you know, some of those 
comments, I think, are doing exactly what I warned us. We 
should be focusing on what the American people are asking us 
for. They are not asking for divisive comments. They are asking 
us to work together. Student safety is of primary importance. 
Making sure that students are accepted in schools and 
acknowledged for who they are is critically important.
    In this country, we are seeing a lot of attacks on specific 
students, especially students who have already experienced the 
most need for mental health support. We need to stand up for 
all students, and make sure that all students have a place in 
our schools.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you, Dr. Cardona, and I appreciate you 
bringing forth data that talked about the rates of student 
suicide, because I have been one of those teachers on the 
receiving end of just heartbreaking stories when students are 
breaking down and saying that they just do not know what to do 
next. Many teachers around this country are the ones who pull 
those students back. Again, thank you for your time. I yield 
back.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Mr. Bean, you are recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bean. A very good afternoon. Thank you very much, Madam 
Chair. Good afternoon, E&W Committee and Mr. Secretary, 
welcome. We are glad to have you here.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Mr. Bean. You said a couple of things that I am with you 
on. One is we need to raise the bar in education and two, you 
said that parents know their kids best. A couple of weeks ago, 
at the very same table that you are sitting there now, we heard 
from education experts and actual students that said the 
biggest thing that we can do to raise the bar and empower 
parents and kids is give school choice, give choice to parents 
to determine what's best for their kids.
    We heard some dramatic minority students who have overcome 
just significant obstacles in life, and then there is the 
Opportunity Scholarship Program right here in D.C. that is just 
turning in some great numbers. 93 percent of kids in that 
program graduate from high school. 90 percent go on to college. 
Its 94 percent are minority, and the audience is about $25,000 
a year. What are we doing to promote choice?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. Thank you, Congressman Bean. You 
know I, as a parent, do feel that I should have decisions to 
make about my child's education. I am a student--when I was in 
high school, I chose a technical high school, so I had choice. 
I am a product of having choice. I am in favor of that, and I 
certainly feel that parents should be able to make decisions 
about their children.
    Mr. Bean. Does your budget reflect choice? Are we given and 
encouraging choice of charter schools and private schools?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. We have not reduced funding for 
public charter schools, and we recognize that those are 
parents' choice. What I am not in favor of, sir, is using 
dollars that are intended to elevate or raise the bar as we 
call it on public school programming, so that the funding goes 
to private school vouchers. What ends up happening is we are 
already having a teacher shortage. If you start taking dollars 
away from the local public school, those schools are going to 
be worse.
    Mr. Bean. How long is too long? We have heard of our civics 
scores are the worse ever. We have heard that learning loss now 
is permeating the land, except for the free State of Florida, 
which we are doing really well and because we opened schools a 
lot faster than other states. I think at a school district in 
Baltimore has zero students proficient in reading and math 
scores.
    Secretary Cardona. I believe your microphone is off sir. I 
believe your microphone is off.
    Mr. Bean. Okay. I think about the district in Baltimore 
that has zero students proficient. How long should a student 
have to wait before help? How long is it okay to be stuck in a 
failing school?
    Secretary Cardona. I agree with you. The sense of urgency 
that I have as Secretary of Education could be illustrated by 
some of the strategies we have taken, to make sure that the 
dollars are being spent to reopen schools.
    Mr. Bean. It is a shame. The rich people have already left. 
The minority students, the people without means are the ones 
struggling in those schools. We need to offer them hope. You 
said we treated all colleges the same, all colleges the same. 
Proprietary schools right now are taking it on the chin. You 
and the administration have made it very difficult for 
proprietary colleges to continue their mission of bringing 
hope, you know.
    They are the non-traditional, non-traditional. They are 
older students, non-traditional college students. For many 
times, this single parent mom who wants to better herself can 
go there. Right now, they are under attack and when I meet with 
them, they say many of them will be closing soon. Why are you 
at war with proprietary colleges?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question. I do not 
believe we are at war. I think what we are trying to do is fix 
a broken system. 90 percent of the borrower defense claims were 
against for-profit institutions that were taking advantage of 
students. While I recognize they have an important role, we 
want to make sure that we are protecting students before we are 
protecting----
    Mr. Bean. What about the good ones? You are targeting all 
of them. There are some great colleges out there that are 
letting people become dental hygienists. We need our teeth 
cleaned.
    Secretary Cardona. Right, right.
    Mr. Bean. They are providing a valuable service. How are 
you discerning between good ones and there is somebody that is 
a bad one.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you for that and I agree with 
you. We are in support of colleges that are proprietary, that 
are doing and have a good track record.
    Mr. Bean. We are going to close them if we do not change 
our ways and ease up on--because that net you are casting is 
all of them right now. What are we going to cut? We are--you 
may not know, but 32 trillion in debt. You have not proposed a 
cutting thing. What would you--certainly this is a--education 
really is a state's responsibility. What would you cut? What 
can we do without or trim back?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, yes, thank you for that. I do, as I 
said earlier, investing in education to me is investing in our 
country's economic prosperity.
    Mr. Bean. There is nothing you would cut though? What about 
the unspent COVID funds? We still have--you have actually made 
it easier to not spend them and extend out. I am going to yield 
back my time, but we need to recognize that we work together.
    Secretary Cardona. I would love to answer that question.
    Mr. Bean. I will go with you at a school. Come to northeast 
Florida. I will walk some charter schools with you too, Madam 
Secretary. I yield back, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Bean. Ms. Stevens, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Stevens. Thank you, Madam, Chair, and thank you to our 
amazing and esteemed Secretary for your testimony and your time 
today, and your great leadership of our Department of 
Education. It is a real delight to have you in the House of 
Representatives today, as we are reviewing Fiscal Year 2024 
budget priorities and education being at the top of the list.
    Many of us on this Committee are fully in support of 
funding IDEA and making sure that students of all abilities get 
the education they deserve, and that is why we know our public 
schools are so important in that charge because frankly, most 
of the time that is where students who are receiving IEPs go. 
For the families that--particularly in my district in Oakland 
County, Michigan, we see a very successful model with special 
education in not burdening these families with additional cost.
    Mr. Secretary, you are well aware of the impact on COVID-19 
and students, and I do not think there is anyone in the cabinet 
who has more of a bird's eye view on that subject than you. You 
may remember that we had a hearing on this subject, 
particularly examining how the impacts of COVID-19 hit and hurt 
our students who have learning disabilities.
    In Oakland County, we have Dr. Wanda Cook-Robinson, who is 
overseeing our IEPs for 22,000 students, doing a great job at 
that. Interested to hear how the Department is working to 
ensure that schools are providing students with disabilities 
the services and supports they need to get them back on track, 
both academically and with regard to the goals outlined in 
their IEP.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you for that, and you are 
absolutely correct. Students with disabilities have--were 
impacted significantly during the pandemic. I would argue 
probably the group of students that has--was impacted the most. 
I remember getting stories from parents and students, hoping 
that they can get back into the classroom and making sure that 
they would get the support that they missed out on during the 
pandemic.
    I received letters of parents, from parents who told me 
that your children regressed because the IEP was not able to be 
met. We have been, we have been very specific with regard to 
guidance for students with disabilities, and we have gone as 
far as having cases investigated by our Office for Civil 
Rights, to ensure that districts followup on their legal 
responsibility.
    Ms. Stevens. Yes.
    Secretary Cardona. We have taken that very seriously. For 
the first time ever, the Department of Education put out 
guidance on providing mental health supports for students. I 
think it was the summer of 21--to make sure that they had 
access to what tools were available with the American Rescue 
Plan dollars. We know that that is critically important for 
students to be successful.
    Ms. Stevens. Yes, that is absolutely remarkable, and 
certainly we know that fully funding IDEA, stop robbing Peter 
to pay Paul and help our school district succeed in a wide 
range of disabilities, physical and cognitive that our students 
face, and we certainly appreciate you including mental health. 
We also know that students benefit from having diverse 
teachers, Mr. Secretary. Just 20 percent of our Nation's 
teachers identify as people of color, compared with half of all 
K through 12 students.
    Legislation like the RETAIN Act which I introduced with 
Congressman Brad Schneider last week would address the 
nationwide shortages of teachers that disproportionately impact 
our students coming from lower income households, and also 
students of color. How is the Department, Mr. Secretary, 
working to support states and school districts in strengthening 
and diversifying their educator workforce, and what is the 
Department doing to support State and district efforts to 
address the teacher shortage in general that was here before 
the pandemic?
    Secretary Cardona. Exactly, yes. Thank you for that 
question. Really quickly on IDEA, in 1975 Congress set out to 
pay for 40 percent, made a commitment of 40 percent of IDEA 
dollars to pay for special education.
    Ms. Stevens. We are about to hit 50 years on that puppy.
    Secretary Cardona. We are at 12.1 percent in fiscal year 
?23. It is important to contextualize that. With regard to 
diversity and professional staff, this is something that we 
take very seriously. We created for the first time the Augusta 
Hawkins grant, that is intended to provide pathways for diverse 
candidates into the teaching profession, to make sure that our 
teaching profession reflects the diversity of our country as 
well.
    We are focusing on creating apprenticeship programs. When 
we started as an administration, only two states had 
apprenticeship programs for teachers. We are up to about 16, 
which means that student teachers would get paid now, and we 
need to really change that. The goal is to get 50 states.
    Ms. Stevens. Pay the student teachers.
    Secretary Cardona. Pay the student teachers. If you want to 
have diversity in the teaching ranks, make the pathways easier 
to get into it.
    Ms. Stevens. Thank you, and with that I yield back.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Mr. Burlison, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. 
Secretary, for joining us today. We have heard previously from 
experts this year about the--about their concerns of the impact 
that foreign entities, especially China have on our higher ed 
institutions. Do you share those concerns?
    Secretary Cardona. I do, I do. I take foreign threats very 
seriously, and I think it is really important that we protect 
the intellectual property of our universities.
    Mr. Burlison. Previously, the previous administration, not 
Presidential administration but your Department and your agency 
would release information on and request that information from 
universities on the foreign donors, their names, their 
information, the country of origin, and your administration is 
not making that list, all of this, the same information public. 
Why is that?
    Secretary Cardona. As I said before, we take foreign 
threats very seriously. We have improved our process and have 
provided at least 34,000 filings that were made public. We are 
on track to have the most filings made public than any other 
administration, and it was the last administration actually 
that changed the process to not share names. We are following 
the same process that they left us.
    Mr. Burlison. Okay. Madam Chair, I want to submit for the 
record a letter to Secretary Cardona from Lance Gooden.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
    [The letter follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Burlison. On the letter dated January 19th of 2023, you 
received a letter from Representative Gooden. Do you care to 
comment about, or did you respond to that letter?
    Secretary Cardona. Our team works very closely with members 
of the Hill in good faith, and we are going to continue to have 
ongoing engagement with them and be responsive to the letter.
    Mr. Burlison. In his letter, he outlines concerns that he 
has about your office's, or about the changes in your agency to 
no longer include information on the foreign gifts and 
contracts that are being sent to our schools, specifically 
concerns related to the University of Pennsylvania which has a 
connection to Penn Biden Center. They received from the year 
2021 to 2022 $51 million. This is outlined in this letter. This 
is the same location that we know had mismanagement of 
classified documents. He is requesting an investigation by your 
Department into this. What was your response?
    Secretary Cardona. Well as I said before, we are going to 
continue to be responsive and act in good faith to share 
information. I must remind you that it was the last 
administration that did not feel it warranted an investigation 
on what you are referring to.
    Mr. Burlison. Do you--do you have any concerns? Do you 
believe that an investigation is warranted?
    Secretary Cardona. We have--we take the foreign threat very 
seriously, and we are going to continue to respond to letters, 
and I am confident that the process that we have in place is 
creating greater transparency around this information, and 
making sure that people know that we are holding them 
accountable for compliance as well.
    Mr. Burlison. My next question has to do with the School 
Board Association letter that was dated 2021 to President 
Biden. That letter that was submitted specifically stated--that 
group later issued an apology for that letter. When it was 
during that time, were you aware before they drafted that 
letter? Were you aware or did you work with the School Board 
Association?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely not. We had nothing to do 
with the letter that they wrote.
    Mr. Burlison. Okay. Well, that is surprising, because the 
people from the School Board Association said that you--they 
were writing the letter given direction from the White House as 
per a request from Secretary Cardona.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. I will repeat. We had nothing to do 
with that letter, and we stand by that.
    Mr. Burlison. Okay. According to--so the NSBA apologized 
and this, if I did not go into this, this is the letter where 
they claimed that parents, they associated parents who 
testified at school board meetings as terrorists. They have 
since apologized. Has your administration apologized, because 
after they issued the letter, your administration's initial 
response was supportive of the letter.
    Secretary Cardona. I do not believe that to be accurate. 
No. 1, I think our position has been the same from Day 1. 
Parents belong in the educational process, and we need to do 
more to engage parents.
    Mr. Burlison. Okay. You deny, or you refute, or you do not 
agree with the content of the letter, in regard to parents 
being terrorists?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely not.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Ms. Leger Fernandez, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you so much, Madam Chair and 
thank you so much, Secretary Cardona for being here and 
bringing your perspective that is so unique of having taught in 
the classroom and taught in the kind of classrooms that we are 
talking about now. Sadly, yesterday an 18 year-old used an 
assault rifle to kill three elders and ruined two officers in 
Farmington, New Mexico. Every school in the city locked down 
including an elementary school that was right near the 
shootings.
    Thankfully, none of the victims were children. However, as 
you know in the last 10 years, there have been 660 shootings at 
K through 12 schools, 267 people have died. So many more have 
been traumatized. I believe it is heartbreaking and 
irresponsible that the majority of Republicans refuse to take 
action on an assault weapons ban. Secretary Cardona, do you 
agree that banning assault weapons would decrease the number 
and severity of school shootings in America?
    Secretary Cardona. I do.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. I also believe, thank you very much, 
and thank you for standing with our children. It is ridiculous 
that children have to be afraid of going to school, that their 
parents to have live in fear every time they drop their 
children off, and that what happened in Farmington that you are 
no longer safe just driving down the street of your 
neighborhood.
    Moving on to another matter about financial fitness, I 
think we need to encourage our young Americans, our students, 
to give them financial fitness. Not literary because we all 
know how to read, but financial fitness, make them strong 
enough to move about in our world. I have the Financial Fitness 
Act, which would direct the Department of Education to 
establish a personal finance education portal available to the 
public, including both the students and their parents to 
provide the kind of information about creating that fitness. 
Would you commit? The bill almost made it through the Senate 
last year, we were that close. I think you could establish this 
kind of online portal now. Would you commit to working with us 
to do that?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely would, and love to hear more 
about it and hear more about that. I think in our raise the bar 
strategy, we are really thinking about ways to improve 
programming in our schools and make sure that personal fitness 
or literacy, financial literacy is something that students are. 
Is it okay if I can share a little bit about the previous 
question?
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Please do.
    Secretary Cardona. You know, I was a school principal. I 
think sometimes we lose sight of the emotion that happens when 
you are in a school, even if it is a school that is not 
impacted directly by the shooting. I was a school principal 
when the Sandy Hook massacre happened. I was about 40 minutes 
away, and I remember the impact that that had not only on 
myself, the students, the parents, the teachers.
    We should not have to worry about safety of six and 7 year-
olds when they are learning how to read. We have gotten--we 
have become a bit desensitized as a country. There is no one 
magic answer to this, but we need to come together around 
student safety. If we cannot come together around student 
safety, then I struggle, I struggle to think that we are going 
to have to continue this fight. Our students deserve to be 
safe, and as a parent and an educator, this is an area that I 
really think we need to come together on.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. I do believe that we should come 
together. I have had some very encouraging conversations with 
those in the community. This 18 year-old was supposed to 
graduate today. He will not. The law enforcement did a great 
job of responding and minimizing the damage. It is, it is 
extremely heartbreaking. Going back to things that are less 
heartbreaking but more about promise and opportunity, because 
that is our job, is to create possibility for students to 
remove obstacles.
    We do not have disadvantaged students. We have students who 
have aspirations, and we need to help them get there, right? I 
am introducing the America's College Promise Act, which would 
provide tuition-free college for students at community 
colleges, and especially support low-income students who 
transfer to TCUs, HBCUs, MSIs, you know, Hispanic-serving 
institutions. That is what we have. In New Mexico, almost every 
single one of our higher education entities is minority-serving 
institutions.
    Could you please discuss the need for 2 years of pre-
community college, what that would mean to students and to 
their families?
    Secretary Cardona. Sure. I recognize the time is creeping 
up here, but it is economic mobility for the student, for their 
families, for their community, for their State. Education and 
getting the skills that they need to have higher-paying jobs 
and contribute to the economy is something that we should all 
want. To me, universal community college is an investment in 
our local economy and in our Nation's economy.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you very much Secretary, and I 
do share everyone's concern about McCarthy's Default in America 
Act, and the devastating cuts it would mean to education 
funding. I have run out of time, so I yield back Madam 
Chairman, Chairwoman.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. Mr. Kiley, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Kiley. Secretary Cardona, you supported student vaccine 
mandates for COVID. Here is an article from Politico, September 
23d, 2021, ``Education Secretary Backs Mandatory School COVID-
19 Vaccines.'' You are quoted in that article saying not only 
do I support it, but I am encouraging states to come up with a 
plan to make sure it happens.'' You also said, ``Governors 
should work with their school officials and with their health 
officials to roll out requirements.''
    Now, you made these statements in your capacity as 
Secretary of Education. Is it fair to say that this was the 
policy of the Biden administration, was student vaccine 
mandates?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. At the time of the article that you 
are referencing, we were--we had the majority of our schools 
closed for full-time instruction. Our students were suffering, 
and it was the recommendation of our health experts to provide 
vaccination----
    Mr. Kiley. Yes, this was the policy of the Biden 
administration, was to favor student vaccine mandates?
    Secretary Cardona. It was a recommendation of our health 
officials, not only at the Federal level but at the State and 
local level also to--in local districts to have students 
vaccinated----
    Mr. Kiley. I will take that as a yes. It was administration 
policy to favor student vaccine mandates, since you have not 
denied----
    Secretary Cardona. There was not a Federal mandate on 
student vaccines.
    Mr. Kiley. Correct, but you encouraged states to adopt 
them?
    Secretary Cardona. I encouraged reopening schools and----
    Mr. Kiley. You encouraged states to adopt student vaccine 
mandates, yes or no?
    Secretary Cardona. Could you repeat the question?
    Mr. Kiley. Did you encourage states to adopt student 
vaccine mandates----
    Secretary Cardona. I did not encourage states to adopt 
student vaccine mandates. Where states----
    Mr. Kiley. Excuse me, sir. You said right here, ``Not only 
do I support it, but I'm encouraging states to come up with a 
plan to make sure it happens.'' The title of the article is 
``Education Secretary Backs Mandatory School COVID-19 
Mandates.''
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, you could read the article, or you 
could talk to the person that was in that position then. I 
supported schools reopening and in local districts where they 
were having the vaccine mandates, I supported the decision made 
by lawful----
    Mr. Kiley. I guess Politico misquoted you? Is there any--do 
you believe--did any states adopt that position by the way? Did 
any states adopt student vaccine mandates and implement them?
    Secretary Cardona. To my knowledge, no states adopted that.
    Mr. Kiley. It seems like kind of a fringe position that you 
offered if not a single State agreed with it? Another fringe 
position that you adopted was favoring mask mandates for young 
children and making them wear masks throughout the school day. 
This was outside the international norm. Most countries in 
Europe did not do that, yet you insisted that this was backed 
by science.
    Mr. Secretary, did you ever fabricate or mischaracterize 
scientific evidence in order to support student mask mandates?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely not. What I did was lead the 
country to go from 46 percent school reopened to 98 percent.
    Mr. Kiley. We will get to that in a moment. Here is an 
article from the National Review, ``Researcher Corrects 
Secretary of Education After He Cites Her Study to Justify 
School Mask Mandates.'' If you want to go the primary source, 
here is a tweet from you. This is from September 27th, 2021. It 
says, ``A Wisconsin study found that schools that required 
masking had a 37 percent lower incidence of COVID-19.''
    There is comment from Dr. Tracy Hoeg who says ``Secretary 
Cardona, I was the senior author of this study. Our study is 
not able to give any information about the role masks played in 
the observed low in school transmission rate.'' So I will ask 
you again, Mr. Secretary, did you ever fabricate or 
mischaracterize scientific evidence in order to justify student 
mask mandates?
    Secretary Cardona. No. What I supported were common sense 
mitigation strategies that protected students, our educators 
and families as we reopened school in the height of a pandemic, 
and we were able to successfully do that.
    Mr. Kiley. Well, what you also did was call out Governors 
who did not want to have mask mandates. This is from the 
Washington Post. ``Education Secretary Cardona Criticizes the 
Republican Governors for Banning Mask Mandates.'' Why do you 
feel like it was necessary to criticize these Governors for 
their decisions?
    Secretary Cardona. I thought it was important to 
communicate the importance of superintendents and health 
officials making the decisions, not State Governors preventing 
health experts from having their voice heard.
    Mr. Kiley. Let us then move onto the topic of school 
reopenings. The states that you decided to criticize, this is a 
chart of in-person instruction index for the 2021 school year 
from Burbio. The states you chose to criticize, Florida is near 
the best, nearly 100 percent. Texas is in eighth place. The 
bottom five states were Hawaii, Washington, Maryland, Oregon 
and California. Did you ever criticize the Governors of those 
states for refusing to open schools?
    Secretary Cardona. Can you tell me what that chart is? I am 
not sure----
    Mr. Kiley. It is from Burbio. It has been widely cited in 
the media.
    Secretary Cardona. What does the top say though? The font 
is very small.
    Mr. Kiley. Average in-person instruction index, how much 
were schools opened.
    Secretary Cardona. Okay, and what is your question?
    Mr. Kiley. Did you ever criticize the Governors at the 
right end of these charts for not opening these schools?
    Secretary Cardona. What are the right----
    Mr. Kiley. California, Oregon, Maryland, Washington, 
Hawaii.
    Secretary Cardona. I provided guidance, regardless of 
whether the Governors were Republican or Democrat, on reopening 
schools.
    Mr. Kiley. Yes, but you specifically criticized the 
Governors of Florida and Texas for not wanting to force masks 
on young children. Did you in the same way criticize the 
Governor of California for not opening schools?
    Secretary Cardona. I was very critical of Governors firing 
superintendents whose job it was to protect students and 
families.
    Mr. Kiley. Did you criticize Governor Newsome for not 
opening schools?
    Secretary Cardona. Again, I was very critical of Governors 
who were overstepping and removing----
    Mr. Kiley. I did not hear a yes. I am sorry. We have been 
listening to evade yes or no answers all day. The reality is, I 
would encourage you to sort of look at what happened in our 
State of California. Parents were absolutely beside themselves 
as schools were functioning just fine in other states. Our 
politicians refused to open them, and you never spoke out on 
the side of those parents and criticized those politicians.
    This was the most consequential policy failure in modern 
U.S. history, and I am afraid to say it Mr. Secretary, that you 
and this administration were complicit. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Kiley. Ms. Manning, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. 
Secretary, for being with us today, and thank you for your 
service to our country. Secretary Cardona, the President's 
budget includes an additional $578 million to invest in 
increasing mental health providers to schools. We know that 
youth mental health is currently in crisis. That is why this 
week I am reintroducing my Improving Mental Health and Wellness 
in Schools Act.
    This is a bipartisan bill that would add mental health 
education to existing guidelines for local school wellness 
policies, and to increase resources for mental health providers 
in our schools. How do you plan to allocate funds for 
increasing providers in schools, and what is being done to 
increase counselor to student ratios in our schools?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you. That is a critically 
important topic. The mental health needs of our students are 
great. When I talk to educators, when I talk to parents and 
students, that is the primary request, that they have enough 
supports to make sure their students are well.
    We are working, as I said earlier, we provided guidance in 
2021 around how to access it. We are providing pathways to 
certifications there. We are working with higher education 
institutions to make sure that they're meeting the demand. We 
are strongly encouraging and lifting up models of K-12 
institutions working with community-based health centers, to 
make sure that it takes like the whole community approach.
    We have partnerships that we are supporting with these 
dollars, with schools and hospitals that provide mental health 
supports. It is also important for us to take a step back and 
look at mental health support as a continuum. We are also 
supporting local Boys and Girls Clubs that are providing after-
school programming for students to be in a safe place, with 
mentors and giving them the support that they need to be 
successful in school.
    We are going from everything from proactive Tier 1 supports 
in schools, additional school counselors and school social 
workers, and external community partners that provide mental 
health supports.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you. One of the things that my bill 
would do by introducing mental health wellness into schools, 
would be to try to normalize the opportunity for students to 
seek mental health assistance when they are having mental 
health issues, to try to remove the stigma around mental health 
care. Under the Republicans' proposal to cut fiscal year24 
discretionary spending back to the Fiscal Year 22 enacted 
level, would we still have funding available for the mental 
health programs you have described?
    Secretary Cardona. We would see a significant decrease in 
funding for mental health supports if a cut equivalent to 2022 
funding levels were implemented. It would result in $50 million 
in cuts for mental health supports alone. 40 new grants would 
be cut and the support for 300 existing grants would also be 
cut.
    Ms. Manning. We would see a significant decline in funding 
for mental health services, even though we know we are having a 
mental health crisis among school-aged children in our country.
    I would like to move to a different topic. The President's 
budget also includes $178 million for the Department of 
Education's Office of Civil Rights, a 27 percent increase from 
Fiscal Year ?23. By contrast, the Republicans' budget proposal 
would slash funds for OCR at a time is receiving record numbers 
of complaints of civil rights violations in schools, and 
according to the ADL, antisemitic incidents on college campuses 
increased by 41 percent from 2021 to 2022.
    I recently spoke with Assistant Secretary Catherine Lhamon 
about the backlog of civil rights complaints and the need for 
more staff at OCR to process and investigate these kinds of 
claims. How will the resources that are at the increase in the 
budget be used to reduce the backlog of cases, and can you 
commit that they will be used to investigate all of the Title 
IV complaints, including antisemitic incidents?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that. Absolutely. The 
Office for Civil Rights, as you mentioned, has seen an increase 
in the number of investigation requests. In 2019, they had 
about 10,000 cases. Last year, they had over 19,000 cases. They 
went from----
    Ms. Manning. 19,000 cases?
    Secretary Cardona. 19,000 complaints last year. The funding 
would ultimately result in additional staff to investigate 
these cases. We recognize cases. Disability discrimination is 
on the rise, as well as antisemitism. We would be more 
responsive and look into those cases much quicker.
    Ms. Manning. Can you assure us that the Biden 
administration's commitment would include protecting all 
students, including Jewish and pro-Israel students?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, we would definitely be committed to 
that.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you. My time has expired, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Mr. Moran, you are recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Moran. Thank you, Madam Chair. Secretary Cardona, my 
name is Nathaniel Moran. I am from northeast Texas. I wanted to 
talk with you first about this quote you mentioned to 
Representative Burlison just a few minutes ago. When I walked 
in, I heard you say to him ``We need to do more to engage 
parents.'' Did I hear you correctly when you said that?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes.
    Mr. Moran. Okay. Did you support the language in the 
recently passed Parents Bill of Rights, that sought to codify 
this need to do more to engage parents?
    Secretary Cardona. I believe in parental engagement. I 
believe that that bill would create a level of oversight where 
the Federal Government is dictating what local boards can or 
cannot do, so I do not think that is necessary.
    Mr. Moran. Is it your position that really local boards are 
the ones that know best for their school district, and should 
make those decisions on the local level to the extent that it 
is possible?
    Secretary Cardona. I do believe that, yes.
    Mr. Moran. When you were in the classroom, you taught 
fourth grade at Hanover Elementary School. Is that true?
    Secretary Cardona. No. I taught fourth grade at Israel 
Putnam Elementary School. I was a school principal at Hanover 
Elementary School.
    Mr. Moran. Did I read correctly that you were one of the 
youngest or the youngest principal when you were the principal 
at Hanover?
    Secretary Cardona. I was back then, yes.
    Mr. Moran. In your time in the classroom in fourth grade, I 
presume that you really cared deeply about your students. You 
engaged your students, you got to know each one of them 
individually; is that correct?
    Secretary Cardona. That is correct.
    Mr. Moran. You found out pretty quickly that every one of 
them has different needs, and aside from parents, you probably 
knew best how to educate those kids in your fourth grade class; 
is that accurate?
    Secretary Cardona. It is accurate.
    Mr. Moran. Then when you became a principal at Hanover, I 
presume that's about the same truth for your school. You knew 
your school better than anybody else; is that correct?
    Secretary Cardona. That is correct.
    Mr. Moran. In fact, you knew the parents and you were held 
accountable because you were closest to the parents at that 
school, and if you did something that stepped out of line from 
what the parents wanted in that community, they could come talk 
to you, and they probably did on a regular basis?
    Secretary Cardona. That is correct.
    Mr. Moran. I am confused. When we deal with education on 
the Federal level, we seem to always want to push education up 
to the Federal Government, and have the Federal Government 
impose more and more mandates. My question to you is under your 
administration as Secretary of Education, what have you done to 
push more authority and control and power down to the parents 
in the local school districts?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question. The same 
values that I had as a fourth grade teacher and as a school 
principal I have here. As a matter of fact, when I was at the 
local level, and even at the district and State level, I 
preferred that the decisions be made at the local level. I 
think that is where it should be. What we are doing is we are 
providing grants, and we are funding local boards. We are 
building capacity of local boards and working and partnering 
with them to make sure that we stay within our lane and stay in 
our role.
    As a matter of fact, the question you asked me about the 
Parents Bill of Rights, I have been providing that same, those 
rights since I was a teacher and principal. What that bills 
does is provide a greater role for Federal Government to 
monitor local school decisions.
    Mr. Moran. I take it by your opposition to the Parents Bill 
of Rights that you are for getting the Federal Government out 
of local school districts and letting local school districts 
actually perform on the local level, as opposed to having more 
oversight from the Federal Government?
    Secretary Cardona. Our country was designed to have local 
control in school boards and that is something----
    Mr. Moran. I love to hear you say that, and you just gave 
me the two examples of the things I think, I thought you were 
going to say about what the role of Federal Government is here 
in education, and primarily its grants and funding. Is that an 
accurate statement?
    Secretary Cardona. Protecting the civil rights of students.
    Mr. Moran. Is there--of those three things, so grants, 
funding and protecting the civil rights of students, do you 
believe that states are ill-equipped to do that on their own?
    Secretary Cardona. I believe states sometimes need support 
and guidance to do that work successfully.
    Mr. Moran. Do you believe that there is a State presently 
that cannot actually protect the civil rights of students or 
provide funding or grants to local school districts, so that 
they can decide locally how best to use that money?
    Secretary Cardona. I would be happy to have my team 
followup on some of the work that we are doing in the Office 
for Civil Rights to support states and districts accomplish 
that work, and I am proud that we can be a partner with states 
and districts to get that work done.
    Mr. Moran. Do you agree that me as a representative from 
East Texas probably does not know local school districts in 
California or New York nearly the way those folks know their 
school districts in their communities. Would you agree with 
that?
    Secretary Cardona. I would agree that that makes sense, 
that know your districts more than you know districts in other 
parts of the country.
    Mr. Moran. Right. I grew up in East Texas. I know East 
Texas, and conversely the folks from California and New York, 
even the ones from Republican districts, do not know East Texas 
near as well as I do. Would you agree with that?
    Secretary Cardona. I would agree with that.
    Mr. Moran. Have you ever been to an East Texas school 
district?
    Secretary Cardona. I have been to Texas a number of times. 
I do not recall specifically which districts right off the top 
of my head. I am sure it is a wonderful district, and I am sure 
the local officials there are doing a great job educating 
students.
    Mr. Moran. I agree. Thank you for your time today.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Moran. Ms. Wilson, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Wilson. Thank you. Thank you Madam Chair and thank you 
Mr. Secretary for coming today, and thank you so much for 
coming to Miami earlier this month, to highlight career 
technical education and after school programs at two of the 
Nation's best public schools, Dr. Frederica S. Wilson/Skyway 
Elementary School, which also has the Frederica S. Wilson Boys 
and Girls Club on campus and William H. Turner Technical Arts 
High School.
    At Turner Tech, Secretary Cardona met students as they 
learned to become electricians, nurses, farmers, veterinarians, 
plumbers and music producers. I want to thank Principal Frazier 
and his staff for the outstanding work. The $43 million 
increase in Federal career and technical education funding 
included in the President's Fiscal Year 2024 budget ensures the 
prosperity of these individual programs in my district and 
across the Nation.
    We rolled out the red carpet as Secretary Cardona visited 
Dr. Frederica S. Wilson/Skyway Elementary School, the 
birthplace of the 5,000 Role Models of Excellence Mentoring and 
Dropout Prevention Program, which has empowered boys of color 
for more than 30 years. He met grown men who came through the 
program. Our own deputy superintendent of schools is a product. 
Within the halls of that school, we held a roundtable to 
underscore the importance of Federal investments in mentoring 
and after school programs. I want to thank Principal James and 
her team for their outstanding work.
    I commend President Biden and Secretary Cardona for their 
unwavering support of mentoring and after school programs in 
the Fiscal Year 2024 budget. The key to our collective success 
lies in early investments in our children's education. We can 
do this by creating robust universal pre-K and compulsory 
kindergarten programs on a national scale.
    As the Ranking Member of the Higher Education and Workforce 
Development Subcommittee, I am very concerned about the impact 
of restarting the Federal student loan repayment program. The 
integrity of our higher education system is at risk, as 
delinquency and default rates are projected to skyrocket after 
payments are restarted.
    I look forward to working with the Secretary and my 
colleagues to cancel student debt and increase Federal 
assistance for students. With that Mr. Secretary, I have a few 
questions.
    There is a teacher shortage and it is getting worse. 
People, parents are telling their children you will not become 
a teacher. In a recent survey conducted by McKinsey and 
Company, teachers cited salary as the No. 1 reason for 
considering departing the profession. For that reason, I 
sponsored the American Teacher Act, supporting State efforts to 
establish minimum $60,000 teacher salaries, endorsed by the NEA 
and the AMT.
    Can you please elaborate on the Education Department's 
commitment to addressing the teacher shortage through existing 
Federal programs?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Thank you for such a 
wonderful visit, and I appreciate what I saw there, a community 
coming together. Multiple generations coming together for the 
students and mentorship program was great. The career pathway 
program there was amazing. I loved how connected it was to the 
careers that exist in that community.
    We do not have a teacher shortage issue. We have a teacher 
respect issue in this country, and if we are not going to be 
bold to address it, we are the doorstep of another crisis in 
our schools. Our teachers have proven time and time again that 
they will do what they need to do for students, and what we 
have done as a country is not honor them the way they should be 
honored.
    I call it the ABCs of teaching. We need to provide our 
teachers with agency, treat them like professionals, make sure 
that we're listening to them, take into account their 
perspective. Second to parents, they know the students most. B 
is better working conditions, which means having mental health 
support for students available, having professional development 
opportunities for teachers to grow in their career, and have 
career options for them as well.
    Then C, competitive salaries. We have created a condition 
where teachers feel guilty talking about salary. That is 
unacceptable. Teachers are making on average 20 percent less 
than people with similar degrees. We need to come together to 
support our educators with more than just coffee on Teacher 
Appreciation Week. We need to make sure we have competitive 
salaries.
    In our budget, we are putting dollars toward pathway 
programs, pipeline programs. I talked earlier about 
apprenticeship programs. Name another profession where you have 
to work for 4 months for free full time? Student teachers have 
to do that. This is why we are having a hard time recruiting. 
We have work to do there, and we are committed to it.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Ms. Chavez-DeRemer, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Mr. 
Secretary, thank you for joining us today. It is nice to meet 
you. I am Laurie Chavez-Deremer, representing Oregon's Fifth 
District.
    Secretary Cardona. Nice to meet you.
    Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. From some of the testimony I have heard 
today, I know we are not going to agree on everything. From a 
lot of what you said, it encourages me to want to build a 
working relationship with you in this role, because I think at 
the end of the day we are going to share the same goals, 
setting up our Nation's kids for success.
    In Oregon, high schools are no longer required to 
demonstrate that each of their kids are graduating with the 
ability to read and write at their grade level. That does not 
set our kids up for success. If they cannot read at a high 
school level, how are they supposed to understand their rights 
as workers or compare job offers? If they cannot write at a 
high school level, how can we expect them to negotiate pay or 
apply for new jobs?
    Mr. Secretary, what happens when kids graduate high school 
without being able to read or write at a level needed for 
navigating their professional life?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question, 
Congresswoman. Great to meet you and I look forward to working 
with you as well. You are absolutely right. If basic literacy 
is not met, if math functioning is not met, we could talk about 
pathways all we want, but our students are not going to be able 
to take those careers and go on to college. Basic literacy-
numeracy is critical for students to be successful.
    Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Following up to that, is it serving our 
kids, whether they are from Oregon or any State, to bring their 
high schools down to standards where students do not need to 
graduate with these basic, necessary skills?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. While I cannot speak specifically 
to what was done in your State, I would be happy to have a 
conversation with you about that at another time. I will say 
that what we need to be doing, which is why we called it 
``Raise the Bar,'' we need to be raising the bar. The 
performance of our students was made worse by the pandemic, but 
it was nothing to brag about before the pandemic.
    We believe our students should be leading the world, and 
our plan to raise the bar includes rigor in academics, high 
standards, ensuring that students have good, well-rounded 
comprehensive educations so they can choose to go on to 2-year 
school, 4 year school or join the workforce. They have options.
    Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Kids avoid these situations 
irrespective of their state's policies. When teachers and 
parents have great and communicative relationships, both 
parties working together is in the best interest of the 
student, I believe. Mr. Secretary, would you agree that in 
parent-teacher relationships, teachers should provide deference 
to the parents?
    Secretary Cardona. I do believe that teachers and parents 
should be working very closely together, and it should be a 
proactive relationship, not just when there are issues. There 
should be times where teachers can get to know the parents. The 
more you know the parents, the more you know how to help the 
child.
    Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Should parents have the ability to 
provide with direct feedback about what they are teaching?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. I believe those processes do exist, 
where there is ongoing communication, and if there are concerns 
or--I mean in the past, I have had parents ask me if it is 
possible to share a little bit of, you know, reading materials 
on a particular topic that was of interest to the student, to 
help reengage the student at a better, in a better way. I do 
believe that that is something that should happen.
    Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. That makes sense to me. If a child has 
being bullied or has a drastic change in behavior, should 
teachers be transparent with parents about what they are 
observing at school?
    Secretary Cardona. Through ongoing communication, that 
should be existing already, yes.
    Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Also in your testimony, you mentioned 
that high schools need to set up students for success in 
pursuing a college diploma or technical and career. I mean I 
think, and I would agree with you 100 percent, you are hitting 
the nail on the head for sure. As you know, a lot of students 
would want to pursue technical and career cannot use the Pell 
grants to cover short-term programs which prepare them for the 
necessary skills to thrive in technical and career. I know it 
is mentioned in your budget, but are you supportive of 
increasing Pell grant eligibility to those short-term programs?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. I have frequently said if we are 
asking our schools and districts to evolve, we need to evolve 
also. I am interested in looking at ways to expand it to short-
term Pell, with increased accountability to make sure that the 
students are getting a benefit from it. I am open to that, yes.
    Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. My final question, is this an area that 
you will commit to working with the Committee on then?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely.
    Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Okay. Well, I look forward to working 
with you. I appreciate you being here today, and with that 
Madam Chairwoman, I yield back my time.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. I recognize now Mr. Bowman for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary, 
it is great to see you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank 
you for your continued stellar service, and congratulations on 
an amazing career. It is not often where you get to meet a 
Secretary of Education that actually taught in our classrooms, 
led schools as a principal, worked as a superintendent, and led 
an entire State. You really have moved up the ranks. Thank you 
so much for your service.
    I want to zoom out for a moment because the Republican 
proposed budget seeks to cut $4.5 trillion overall, which will 
obviously have a huge impact on education. While Republicans 
continue to speak about these budget cuts, they do not also 
speak about increased spending to invest more in our children 
and our families. They supported the Trump tax cuts for the 
wealthiest Americans a few years ago, and are now unwilling to 
even discuss making sure the wealthy among us contribute their 
fair share to the American economy and to education.
    We have a current economic system where two of the 
wealthiest Americans own more wealth than the bottom 50 percent 
of the country combined. The wealthy are not contributing their 
fair share, and large corporations are not contributing their 
fair share, whereas at the same time we are talking about 
budget cuts.
    We are not having honest, holistic, comprehensive 
conversations, and it seems the party, the Republican Party is 
going through a sort of cognitive dissonance, where on the one 
hand they are speaking about caring about student learning, 
whereas on the other hand their budget proposal will cut 
hundreds of thousands of teachers from our classrooms.
    On the one hand they are speaking about caring about 
student mental health, where on the other hand their budget 
proposal will cut thousands of mental health professionals from 
being in our schools. Their budget would also cut the arts and 
music and sports programs, not just in the Bronx and Mount 
Vernon in my district, but also in Arkansas, Ohio, Michigan, 
Florida, and will hurt not just urban black and brown kids, but 
rural white kids as well.
    Rural white kids love music. They would love to learn how 
to play an instrument. They would love to have theater, drama 
and arts programs in their schools, and they would love to 
participate in a holistic, comprehensive education program. 
Unfortunately, because local property taxes fund our schools 
more than anything else, wealthy kids continue to get the kids 
that poor rural kids do not get, and poor urban kids do not 
get.
    It is very frustrating for me to sit here as a lifelong 
educator, to listen to Republicans who do not have one former 
educator in their party on this Committee talk about what we 
need to be doing in our schools and what we need to be doing 
when it comes to education. It is incredibly frustrating that 
they are not being honest. They call themselves patriots, they 
call themselves patriots. They claim to love America.
    How can they love America when they are not investing in 
our most precious resource, which is our children? If you 
really love America, you want to see America grow and thrive 
for decades to come. The best way to do that is to make sure 
our children and families have everything they need. At the 
same time, they want to cut SNAP benefits, they want to cut $4 
billion from Title I schools. These are the poorest, most 
vulnerable people.
    If we put them in desperate situations, they will turn to 
doing something that will harm their community, which is crime. 
Their budget also cuts hundreds of thousands of law enforcement 
officers. Now we do not have the resources to respond to our 
kids on the front end or the back end, and we are leaving our 
families to suffer. My question is this: Speak to us about the 
impact of these cuts and how they will contribute to the school 
to prison pipeline, and talk about how community schools can be 
a response to that.
    Secretary Cardona. Sure. You know----
    Chairwoman Foxx. The gentleman has 20 seconds.
    Secretary Cardona. As the President says, show me your 
budget and I will show your values. It costs more to intervene 
and incarcerate than it does to educate. We are either going to 
pay now or pay later. We need to invest in our children and 
invest in our country.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you, and I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. DeSaulnier 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, 
Secretary. It is a pleasure to see you and have you here with 
your experience. I want to talk about mental health. You have 
talked about it a lot here today. Last session we passed the 
bipartisan Safer Communities Act, and last session I was able 
to get the Mental Health Matters Act out of the House, not in 
bipartisan fashion, not able to get it through the Senate.
    First on the bipartisan Safer Communities Act that was 
enacted, any feedback you have so far in your enactment, trying 
to get more of those--I know it is early--resources to the 
schools? I put this in the context of two things you have 
mentioned. For years, I have gone out to school districts in my 
district in the San Francisco Bay area. It is a very diverse 
district, very wealthy district, very poor ones.
    The two things I hear regularly from rank-and-file 
educators, administrators and teachers is first your comment 
about respect. Young people say they chose to be teachers in a 
high cost area like where they are from, and their frustration 
is their passion for it, but their lack of respect from the 
larger community and their mental health. I regularly hear from 
administrators and teachers and parents what they need is more 
counselors.
    What do you--what do you see as successes, early successes 
in the bipartisan Safer Communities Act, and on the Mental 
Health Matters Act, and I continue to have discussions with my 
friend, the Chair, on how we could do more around this, about 
attracting young people in the mental health fields. Since 
parity in the ACA, we have over 300 percent increase in adults 
and kids asking for mental health resources.
    We have unfortunately an inverse response from people 
choosing to go in the field. I recently had a meeting with some 
people who have $350,000 worth of debt from the Wright 
Institute in Berkeley, California near my district. They have 
no professional lifetime of actually getting that. The two 
questions are in the first bill, what do you see as successes, 
early as it may be? In the second bill, how do we deal with the 
dilemma of the good news is, stigma is going, is getting 
healthier about particularly the young people for accessing.
    We have these huge demands, and we do not really have a 
thoughtful way to get young people to go into the profession to 
meet the needs?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that, and you know I feel 
optimistic, sir. You know, career pathways and mental health 
support for students seems to be something that everyone agrees 
needs to happen. The bipartisan Safer Communities Act provides 
a necessary funding to help double the number of social 
workers, counselors. It provides the support and immediate 
needs that our schools are having. Teachers, principals, 
parents, they all agree that these dollars are needed. Red and 
blue states, it is something that we know we need to do better, 
and thankfully the funding is there for that.
    I am seeing this becoming an issue that unifies people and 
brings people together around the needs of our students and our 
educators, and I appreciate you mentioning that. I recently 
spoke to teachers at the Department of Education just for a 
focus group and they said, you know, please do not forget we 
are dealing with the same mental health issues our students are 
facing. Sometimes we have displaced trauma. Please make sure 
that your plan includes us. I respect that.
    With regard to the shortage, we have to think outside the 
box. If we do what we have done, we are only going to get what 
we have got, and that is not good enough. We have to create 
pathway programs. We have to work with our higher education 
institutions to work with K-12 districts, to find pathways and 
start tapping our freshmen and sophomores in high school, and 
asking them to consider a career in the mental health space and 
provide pathways for that.
    Our Augusta Hawkins grant does that. The work we are doing 
around apprenticeships does that, and we are continuing to look 
for ways to lift up examples of where that works.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. To followup on this, we have got great 
research on--I mean in the last 20 years, we have learned more 
about neuroscience and the development of cognitive development 
successfully. I recently talked to Susan Linn, a Harvard 
researcher, who wrote Who's Minding Our Kids: The Effect of 
Social Media. Another wonderful researcher at Stanford, another 
woman, wrote Dopamine Nation. I meet with her next week.
    We have all these amazing, this amazing knowledge unlike 
anything probably in the history of our species. We are not 
taking that research and deploying it, for some of the reasons 
we just mentioned. What can we do at this Committee in a 
bipartisan fashion, to work with you to get that kind of 
overview?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. You are absolutely right. One 
of the challenges we have is turning research into practice, 
and what we are trying to do is provide guidance in real terms 
and make sure we are listening to educators, parents, so that 
our guidance is reflective of their needs, not policy at a 
50,000-foot view level.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you. I yield back. I hope I get a 
gold star.
    Chairwoman Foxx. You are pushing, you are pushing. We are 
going to go vote and then come back. We have some members on 
our side who will be coming back after votes. Would you--would 
you like to go Ms. Omar, before we go vote or--OK. You are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Omar. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for 
being here with us. Thank you for all that you are doing to 
advance education in this country. I feel like our education 
system is under assault. In many states, there are drastic 
measures that are being taken that is going to make it hard for 
a lot of our kids to feel as if they are part of a community 
and can receive the education that they need, in order to be 
able to succeed.
    There are organizations like Moms for Liberty, I call them 
Moms for Dictatorship, for Disrespect, for Disinformation, for 
abuse, for harassment, for bullying because many of the things 
that they are advocating for is to create an environment where 
a lot of our kids feel intimidated, a lot of our kids feel as 
if they are not living in an open, inclusive society. When we 
think of the naming of liberty, we think about liberty and the 
pursuit of happiness, letting people achieve their dreams and 
be able to exist as they wish to exist in this country and 
around the world.
    I want to hear what the Department of Education is doing to 
push back against some of this discourse, some of the 
legislation that's being proposed in Florida and in Texas. We 
saw that there was a legislation that was asking for young 
women to disclose when they were menstruating. I cannot imagine 
the level, the level of disrespect that a child might feel, or 
my daughters might feel when a teacher or an administrator 
wants to get some information that is so personal for them. 
What is the Department of Education doing?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congresswoman, and yes, we 
also feel that students who are most in need of support are 
often targeted by folks, and made to feel that they are not 
welcome or accepted for who they are.
    Ms. Omar. Yes. Does the Department of Education have tools 
to push back against that, or do you need legislation to help 
you do that?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. Clearly legislation would help, and 
we would be, you know, implementing legislation. We have 
provided more fact sheets and documents around the rights of 
educators, the rights of education leaders, the 
responsibilities that they have. We have made sure that our 
Office for Civil Rights is responsive and clear around what 
role they provide. Our Office of Elementary and Secondary 
Education has provided countless documents and clarity around 
what the roles and responsibilities are of boards and State 
officials.
    We have stood up and used our position to make sure we made 
it clear that all students should be respected, all students 
should be seen and valued for who they are, and we are going to 
continue to do that. We recognize many of our students are 
under attack, especially our most vulnerable students, and we 
have the responsibility to stand up for those students, whether 
it is through op-eds, using the bully pulpit, clarifying fact 
sheets.
    Ms. Omar. Thank you.
    Secretary Cardona. We have done our part and we are going 
to continue.
    Ms. Omar. I also want to congratulate you on the student 
debt cancellation that the administration has implemented. I 
know that there are some challenges in the court. I want to ask 
if there is an update, and also once you are in the clear, does 
the Department have the resources, the manpower to be able to 
carry it out as effectively and efficiently as possible?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that. We are excited about 
the long-time targeted debt relief that is going to help 43 
million Americans. We look forward to a positive decision from 
the Supreme Court, and we are geared up, ready to go. We 
recognize it has never been done before, to bring on up to 43 
million people back to repayment. The Student Aid Office is 
ready. We want to be more responsive than we have been in the 
past, and make sure that we provide good service.
    I will say that if the budget proposal that we have here is 
not supported, it would significantly impact our ability to 
serve the 43 million borrowers. It would affect our ability to 
serve those students who are going to be eligible for FASA. We 
anticipate over 600,000 more students having access to higher 
education with our better FASA.
    Ms. Omar. Wonderful, and we look forward to making sure you 
have the resources that you need, and the Republicans do not 
succeed in stopping you from completing this effort. Thank you 
so much and I yield back.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Mr. Comer, you are recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary, thank you 
for being here today. I have written you several times over the 
last few months, not just in my capacity as a member of the 
House Education Committee but as chairman of the House 
Oversight Committee, and I am glad to have the opportunity to 
discuss some of these issues with you today.
    My most recent correspondence was in conjunction with 
Chairwoman Foxx. In that letter, we requested additional 
information regarding the Department's plan to allow borrowers 
to self-certify their income for eligibility for income-driven 
repayment plans. The Department announced these changes on 
January 10th of this year, and it has left loan administrators 
and borrowers without guidance on how these changes will be 
implemented.
    We are also concerned that self-certification of income 
will result in fraudulent reporting. That is a priority for my 
House Oversight Committee, fraud. To date, my staff and I have 
not received a response from your letter, from our letter. Will 
you commit to scheduling the requested briefing regarding the 
Department's actions by the end of this week?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman Comer and I do 
look forward to having my team continue ongoing engagement. 
With regard to the reporting of income, we are working to 
improve the system, to make sure that we have the information 
directly from the IRS, to reduce paperwork and make sure that 
the information is accurate.
    We take the engagement with the Oversight Committee very 
seriously, and we want to make sure that we are responsive to 
any requests and act in good faith.
    Mr. Comer. Can we get a briefing from the Department staff 
on exactly how that is being implemented because this waste 
fraud abuse within the whole Federal Government is out of 
control, and we try to nip in the bud before it happens. This 
looks like fraud waiting to happen here.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. We do take that issue very 
seriously. I agree with you that we have to be very mindful of 
every dollar that is being used. I will make sure that there is 
a communication to your team from my team and we are responsive 
in our engagement with you.
    Mr. Comer. Okay. Mr. Secretary, Section 117 of the Higher 
Education Act currently requires institutions of higher 
education to disclose gifts or contracts from a foreign source 
valued at more than $250,000. Since 1986, gifts and contracts 
to the U.S. institutes of higher education from China, Russia, 
Saudi Arabia and Qatar have totaled more than $11 billion. For 
instance, the University of Pennsylvania, home of the infamous 
Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy, where President Biden stored 
some of his classified documents, reported a nearly 400 percent 
increase in foreign gifts and contracts, including 
approximately $22 million in anonymous donations from China.
    Coincidentally, you recently announced the Office of 
Federal Student Aid would be taking over enforcement activities 
relating to potential Section 117 violations, an office with 
little or no background in such disclosures and indicated 
potential violations would have a much lower level of scrutiny. 
What steps has the Department taken to strengthen Section 117 
enforcement in the transition from the Office of General 
Counsel to the Office of Federal Student Loan Aid?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman. We take foreign 
threats very seriously, and we will be responding to all the 
letters that we receive. We respect the protecting intellectual 
property here in the United States, and with regard to Section 
117, we are improving reporting by moving it to FSA and 
building capacity. We have gotten over 34,000 public filings 
already. We are on pace to have the most in any other 
administration. We take it very seriously.
    Mr. Comer. Let me say this before I would like to yield the 
balance of my time to the Chair. We have got a problem with our 
universities, according to multiple university presidents I 
have spoken with, that we have Chinese students that are 
stealing our intellectual property. They are essentially 
serving as spies for the Chinese Communist Party.
    We have certain universities that are receiving enormous 
anonymous gifts from the Chinese Communist Party. This is a 
concern for the House Oversight Committee. With that Madam 
Chair, I yield the balance of my time.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, as 
I mentioned in our--I want to followup on what Congressman 
Comer's talking about. As I mentioned in our call last week, we 
have transmitted to the Department several oversight letters 
with requests for information. Right now, some we have received 
no response; with others we have received minimal response, and 
nearly all the letters were late and most of them the request 
for documents have been ignored.
    Without objection, I submit for the record a summary chart 
of the letters and the status of each, the letters we sent to 
the Department and the response letters we received where they 
exist, and the instructions the Committee provided to the 
Department for responding to the letters. As Mr. Comer has 
suggested, we will continue to press for the answers to the 
questions that we are asking and the information that we need.
    Will you commit to responding fully and promptly to all the 
letters I have indicated in the chart?
    [The letters follow:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Chair Foxx. We take it very 
seriously, and to be responsive.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I just need a yes or a no.
    Secretary Cardona. I do commit to make sure that we 
continue to respond to your letters in a timely way and in good 
faith, yes.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. With that, I 
recognize Mr. Mrvan for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you, Secretary Cardona. In March 2021, I 
was proud to support the House package of the American Rescue 
Plan Act. This historic investment in our Nation's K through 12 
education system enabled school districts, teachers, staff and 
students to weather the novel challenges posed by the pandemic.
    My home State of Indiana received over $1.9 billion from 
this law. Specifically local educational agencies were able to 
leverage these funds to strengthen teacher development and 
preparation programs, as well as provide educators with 
competitive, livable salaries. What data has the Department 
collected about how states and districts are using ARP funds?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman, and thank you 
for the support of the American Rescue Plan dollars. Without 
question, that was a lifeline for our schools, and in my 
conversations and my travels to over 40 states and territories, 
without question that helped get our students reconnected to 
schools. It helped colleges stay open, and there were a lot of 
colleges that would have closed.
    In the K-12 space, over 50 percent of the dollars were used 
for staffing and academic recovery, 23 percent on school 
infrastructure. What that means is basically addressing 
deferred maintenance on the air circulation system. Quite 
frankly, I visited some districts where the system hadn't been 
touched in over 10 years, and they had to basically gut it and 
start it from scratch. The American Rescue Plan dollars helped 
that happen. Mental health supports is another area where those 
dollars were critical.
    As you know, we are in a youth mental health crisis right 
now. If it were not for those dollars, we would be dealing with 
much worse data on the condition of our youth. It has been 
used. We put--because we want to make sure we are clear where 
the dollars are being used, we put on our website, www.ed.gov, 
a link on the opening page, ARP Data Transparency, where you 
can see how the dollars were used in every district.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. The mental health 
accessibility, the ability to invest in HVAC systems that could 
help with viruses, which I believe was used to clear that air 
to get schools back or children back in schools, was a vital 
part of that. I appreciate that.
    The second part of my question is can you describe how the 
President's budget proposal will buildupon the investment to 
support a diverse and highly qualified educator workforce?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you for that. We have to 
recognize that sustaining a highly qualified workforce is 
critical if we're serious about our students improving in 
reading and math, if we are serious about students finding 
pathways to career and college. It all starts with making sure 
that we have a highly qualified workforce and retaining a 
highly qualified workforce.
    Our budget proposal includes measures to drill down and 
make--fund pathway programs that are grow your own programs. 
For example, in a community you might have a paraeducator who 
is supporting students, or you might have parents who might 
have a degree in something else, but do not have a degree in 
teaching. Recruiting them, creating a pathway for them to get 
to the teaching credentials, and then going back into the 
district. We have a program called the Augusta Hawkins grant 
that does that, to help diversify the teaching profession.
    We are working very intently on making sure we expand 
apprenticeship programs. Currently, student teachers work for 4 
months without getting paid. We have to fix that. If we are 
going to recruit and retain teachers, we have to make sure that 
the teaching profession is viewed like other professions, and 
you get paid while you do that. We are--we went from two states 
that have apprenticeship programs; we are up to 16. We want to 
get to 50.
    We want to make sure that we are helping. We want to work 
with 4-year institutions, to make sure that they are working 
more closely with K-12 districts, so we can be tapping freshmen 
and sophomores on the shoulder and saying you should be a 
teacher like I was tapped on the shoulder.
    Mr. Mrvan. Coming from a heavy labor force or labor 
organized district, just elaborate a little bit more on the 
apprenticeship program for the teachers, and what that means.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. Much like in some of the trade 
industries, we have a young person or a new person learning 
skills from someone that has done the job for a long time. We 
want to make sure that we have apprenticeship programs for 
teachers as well. You learn best by doing with a seasoned 
mentor that knows the ins and outs. That, coupled with pedagogy 
instruction at the university level, is the best pathway.
    Right now, our systems are designed where in many cases, 
our pre-service teachers do not get into the classroom until 
their last year of the profession. We have to change that, to 
make sure that they are prepared and connected to the students 
that they are going to serve.
    Mr. Mrvan. I thank you, Mr. Secretary, and I appreciate you 
looking at it from the perspective of drawing more equitable 
teachers into that field, and also doing what you can to bring 
in and change that profession for the better. Thank you. With 
that, I yield back my time Chairwoman.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Mrvan. Mr. Secretary, we 
are going to go vote, and then we will be back. Thank you.
    [Recess.]
    Chairwoman Foxx. I thank everyone for their patience in 
coming back and thank you, Mr. Secretary, for waiting for us. I 
now recognize Mr. Estes for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Estes. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you Secretary 
for joining us today. It is so important for us to--on the 
legislative branch to be involved so much in the activities of 
the Department. I know there is a whole list of issues that we 
can go over, and one of the things I wanted to make sure that 
some of the questions other folks had, they had an opportunity 
to cover. I want to yield my time to the Chair, so she can ask 
some more questions. I know she has in depth.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Estes. Mr. Secretary, one 
more question as a followup to what we were discussing earlier 
on the letters, and that other people have expressed their 
concern about. Could we get you to commit to fully responding 
in the future to letters and requests we transmit in accordance 
with the instructions? I think you indicated that earlier, but 
I would like to get a clear response from you on that.
    Secretary Cardona. Sure, Chair Foxx. We certainly do take 
that very seriously, and I commit that our Department will 
respond to letters and provide the information that we can 
provide to you in good faith.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Now I would like to turn to a positive 
note. You have mentioned how you would like us to work in a 
bipartisan manner. Others have done that. We had a hearing on 
WIOA the other day that was very bipartisan, and we think one 
area of bipartisan support that we find in the Committee is 
support for Workforce Pell or some call it short-term Pell. We 
would like to call it Workforce Pell.
    I introduced the Pell Act, which requires short-term 
programs to meet strong guardrails to ensure students receive a 
return on their investment. Importantly, the Pell Act does 
exclude any types of providers of high-quality online 
education. My belief is if a provider can meet the guardrails, 
the work wouldn't take away high quality education options for 
the students. I am thrilled that Ranking Member Scott has also 
introduced his own proposal, which does not exclude for-profit 
providers.
    Sixteen other House Democrats also joined in supporting 
Workforce Pell, that allows high quality for-profit providers 
to participate. As I said, we had a really good hearing on 
workforce issues. Now that there seems to be some agreement on 
a path forward, will the Department support Workforce Pell for 
all?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you for that. I said earlier 
today that I feel if we are asking our institutions----
    Chairwoman Foxx. Microphone, excuse me.
    Secretary Cardona. Okay. If we are asking our institutions 
to evolve to meet the students' needs, we too need to be 
thinking about different ways to meet the demand. I look 
forward to hearing more about it and engaging in working in 
bipartisan fashion to support the legislation, thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I will just add one more comment to that. 
In terms of again, I am always very sensitive to language and 
how we are talking about things. I think most people want to 
get degrees or certification to get a job. We are not just 
talking about community college. We are not talking about 
baccalaureate. We are talking about all kinds of opportunities 
for people I think here.
    I think it is best if we talk about a continuum, and I know 
you have alluded to that. Thank you very much. We look forward 
to working with you. I yield back to Mr. Estes, who I think is 
going to yield to Mr. Owens.
    Mr. Estes. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I will yield the 
remainder of my time to Mr. Owens.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you so much. I just wanted to I 
just spend just a few minutes to represent those voices of the 
millions of Americans who have been left behind over the last 
few years. We talk about Baltimore. There is an article here, 
23 schools, zero proficiency in math. That is right here in our 
shadow, this last year. Talk about often the 75 percent of 
black boys in the State of California that the Department of 
Education said could not read and write.
    These are the real Americans outside of our bubble, and I 
know it is nice to kind of come here. We talk about bipartisan. 
We can kind of talk flowery words, but there are people that 
are actually dying today, hopelessness, no desire to move 
forward because they are not getting educated. Let me ask you 
this. First of all, what types of schools would you take a look 
at for your children to go to?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Mr. Owens. I agree with you. 
That level of----
    Mr. Owens. I only have a few minutes, so what type of 
schools would you--would private, would parochial, would 
charter, would public? What would be the options you would give 
yourself if you were trying to find the best school for your 
children?
    Secretary Cardona. My wife and I would look at all options. 
My children attend public schools, I attended public schools.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. Now let me ask you this. I am sorry, 
because we are running out of time. If your children, who you 
love dearly, where you vision there are great things that we 
all do, found themselves in a place like this where the schools 
are failing, what would you do to get them out of that?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, I guess the best way to look at 
this, as Secretary of Education, I have a responsibility for 65 
million students.
    Mr. Owens. No, no, no, I am sorry. I am going to break this 
down. I am sorry. I am going to break it down to those who are 
listening, that are going through what we are dealing with 
right now today. Those kinds of people, we would take away 
their titles. What would you do as a parent if you found 
yourself in this situation, like millions of black and Hispanic 
kids are doing every single day and they have no choice. What 
would you, how would you handle that?
    Secretary Cardona. I would advocate for the President's 
budget.
    Mr. Owens. Would that be choice?
    Secretary Cardona. I would advocate for funding schools, so 
that those students could have access to success.
    Mr. Owens. Would that be all schools? I mean these schools 
here have enough money. This school here, 21,000 per child. 
21,000 is Baltimore schools. It is not the school; it is not 
the money. It is failure of a system. Giving them more money 
would not be the key. Would you give them choice to get out?
    Secretary Cardona. When you have choice sir----
    Mr. Owens. Would you give yourself choice to get out, your 
children to get out of that situation? Would you do something 
to choose to get away from that, or just because the system is 
there, you would just go with it?
    Secretary Cardona. Make sure we improve the local schools 
as well. I want to make sure that wherever my kids go to 
school, they have success.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. You will stay there. Okay, well thank you 
so much, appreciate it. Just know I would never do that to my 
children, never, ever. Okay, just so you know. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. I now recognize Ms. Houchin for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Houchin. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for your 
testimony. I am going to in the spirit of time, just go through 
a few yes or no questions, Mr. Secretary. As you know, the 
House and this Committee passed the Protection of Women and 
Girls in Sports Act, in an effort to protect Title IX, which 
the Department of Education has failed to do. As the parent of 
two female student athletes, I have a vested interest in this 
issue.
    Do you believe that requiring those women to undress in 
front of Leah Thomas and allowing Leah Thomas to undress in 
front of female athletes constitute sexual harassment, yes or 
no?
    Secretary Cardona. I do not believe students should be--
feel unsafe in any locker room.
    Ms. Houchin. Do you believe that it constitutes sexual 
harassment to force women to undress in front of biological 
males?
    Secretary Cardona. I do believe forcing women to undress in 
front of biological males is a concern and sexual----
    Ms. Houchin. If Thomas identified as male, would requiring 
female swimmers to dress with him have constituted sexual 
harassment?
    Secretary Cardona. Can you repeat the question?
    Ms. Houchin. If Leah Thomas identifies as male, would 
requiring female swimmers to dress with him have constituted 
sexual harassment?
    Secretary Cardona. I think I know the line of questioning, 
and I would be happy to entertain----
    Ms. Houchin. Just say yes or no.
    Secretary Cardona. It is not a yes or no question for me 
because----
    Ms. Houchin. It is a yes or no question. Is it sexual 
harassment or not?
    Secretary Cardona. You can continue down--you can use your 
time to go down that line of questioning----
    Ms. Houchin. If female athletes are sidelined from 
participation in women's sports or denied awards or other 
recognition only because a male who self-identifies as a girl 
competes in this sport, does this constitute sex discrimination 
under Title IX?
    Secretary Cardona. I would be happy to discuss the merits 
of our proposal and hear your concerns about the policy. This 
line of questioning where----
    Ms. Houchin. Yes or no. Do you think that female athletes 
sidelined from participation in women's sports, if they are 
denied awards or recognition because a male who identifies as a 
girl competes in the sport, does that constitute sex 
discrimination under Title IX, yes or no?
    Secretary Cardona. I believe the harassment or 
discrimination against transgender students is something that 
is rampant in this country, and as a Department we are 
proposing regulations to make sure that all students are seen 
and valued for who they are, and given the same opportunities--
--
    Ms. Houchin. Under Title IX, under that interpretation, 
under--are you admitting then that Title IX under your 
interpretation no longer protects female athletes' equal 
opportunity on the basis of sex?
    Secretary Cardona. I am proud of the work we are doing to 
make sure that all students feel valued and seen in schools, 
and there are students right now that are hurting because 
elected officials have chosen to use their platform to further 
ostracize them, and we take pride in making sure schools----
    Ms. Houchin. Why have you proposed--why have you proposed a 
regulation that will under some circumstances require schools 
and colleges to commit acts of sex discrimination under Title 
IX by permitting biological men to take the place of female 
athletes in women's sports?
    Secretary Cardona. If you look at our proposed Title IX 
regulations, it does not do that. What it does is prevent 
blanket bans on students who are transgender and allows 
students to participate in co-curricular activities which are 
part of the education process.
    Ms. Houchin. If those biological males are required to 
dress with female athletes, does that constitute sexual 
harassment?
    Secretary Cardona. Are you referring to transgender girls?
    Ms. Houchin. Yes.
    Secretary Cardona. I believe transgender girls should have 
access to all the experiences that public schools provide.
    Ms. Houchin. Why is it not--why do you not feel that female 
athletes should be protected from sexual harassment?
    Secretary Cardona. All athletes should be protected from 
sexual harassment.
    Ms. Houchin. What you are saying is contradictory. Okay. I 
am going to move on to free speech. The suppression of 
conservative speech has been an ongoing issue. Over 60 percent 
of students in a recent survey believe the political and social 
climate on their college campuses prevents free speech and 
expression. Earlier this year, the Department questioned the 
necessity of the Free Inquiry Rule, that protects students' 
rights to free speech on their campuses and allows courts to 
hold institutions in violation accountable. Do you believe that 
violations of free speech are not happening on college 
campuses?
    Secretary Cardona. Free speech is the foundation for higher 
education, and we support it 100 percent. The Department can 
only act after the court rules that a public institute of 
higher education has violated the First Amendment.
    Ms. Houchin. Secretary Cardona, your Department is 
questioning the effectiveness of the rule before the legal 
process established by the rule has ever been carried out.
    Secretary Cardona. We believe in free speech and the 
importance of protecting free speech on college campuses.
    Ms. Houchin. Your Department has also questioned if the 
Free Inquiry Rule has detrimental effects that seem 
contradictory. How can you rule, have a rule--how can a rule 
have detrimental effects if no cases have been ruled on by a 
judge yet and no final judgments have been transmitted to the 
Department to act on?
    Secretary Cardona. I would be happy to have my Department 
reach back out to you to share information about it, and I am 
proud of the fact that we are protecting the freedom of speech 
that our students have on higher education institutions.
    Ms. Houchin. Thank you, thank you. I yield the remainder of 
my time to the Chair.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you. I yield to Mr. Smucker for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Smucker. Sorry about that. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for 
yielding and thank you Secretary for coming before the 
Committee and answering some of our questions. One of the I 
think most pressing issues today is President Biden's student 
debt bailout, which is deeply unfair to the majority of middle-
class Americans. In my district, only 17-1/2 percent of people 
have a bachelor's degree. 63 percent of my constituents have no 
college degree at all.
    Essentially what the bailout is doing is asking my 
constituents to subsidize the education of others. According to 
the National Taxpayers Union, the cost of debt cancellation and 
your proposed income-driven repayment plan will cost each 
American taxpayer $3,527.
    I find it simply unacceptable that you would ask my 
constituents who do not have a college degree and millions more 
across the country to shoulder that burden for individuals who 
knew what they were getting into, who signed their own name to 
a Federal college loan. Just wonder if you would care to 
respond to that.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman. I want to make 
sure it is very clear that the targeted debt relief, 90 percent 
of the dollars will go to people making less than $75,000. It 
is to help middle class Americans and those who are struggling 
to get back on their feet as a result of the pandemic. I make 
it analogous to small business, the PPP loans to helped keep 
those businesses afloat. It is because of the pandemic, and it 
is a one-time payment.
    What it is intended to do is prevent defaults from 
happening. We were projecting a significant number of defaults 
in loans, which is bad for the entire community in which those 
people live. What we are trying to do is provide targeted debt 
relief. The overwhelming majority of people that would get it 
are making less than $75,000.
    Mr. Smucker. I can tell, just reState in talking to my 
constituents, they see it as very unfair to themselves. They 
believe that people have gone into this, knowing what they were 
getting into, and they have made choices based on what they 
wanted to do and their own lives and the direction they wanted 
to go, and they feel like they are being held responsible for 
others.
    We did send a letter. I signed onto a letter with the 
Chairwoman expressing concern that the Department's outside 
auditor, KPMG, was unable to give an audit opinion because of 
your insufficient evidence to back up the cost estimates and 
the take-up rate for the student loan bailout plan. In fact, 
KPMG had to issue a disclaimer of opinion, which I believe is 
the first time in 20 years that the Department received this 
kind of disclaimer.
    How can taxpayers trust your Department of Education to 
spend their money wisely if you and your staff cannot even 
account for how much money you are spending?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. I want to 
just make a very quick comment. The President has already 
reduced the deficit by more than 1.7 trillion, and we're 
projecting a $3 trillion deficit reduction in the next 10 years 
with this budget, with reference to the context of the student 
loan forgiveness. With regard to the audit, the disclaimer was 
not a negative assessment as you know. It was done because 
there was never in the history of our Department an attempt to 
do what we are doing, to provide targeted debt relief.
    It was more a disclaimer. We do take our fiscal 
responsibility very seriously at the Department of Education, 
and we will continue to do that.
    Mr. Smucker. We will let that--one other quick question I 
would like to get in. I am concerned about the initiation of 
loan repayment after 3 years of paused payments.
    Secretary Cardona. Right.
    Mr. Smucker. The Department has lost experienced servicers 
and those that remain face serious staffing challenges, which 
will create difficulties I am afraid for borrowers during the 
transition. I believe you confirmed in a Senate Appropriations 
hearing that the Department will resume those loan payments 
shortly after June 30th.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes.
    Mr. Smucker. However, I have heard from constituents and 
servicers as well that they have received no communication or 
guidance regarding the resumption of payments, and I am 
wondering if you could confirm that you provided the servicers 
with the information that they need to be prepared for 
repayment?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question, and it 
gives me an opportunity to kind of support what you are saying. 
Yes, we are in communication regularly with our servicers, but 
the budget that we are proposing, if not--if we do not have the 
funding in FSA, we are going to see extended delays. Our 
veterans are not going to get the services that they need in a 
timely way. We are not going to be able to process the FAFSA 
applications. Your support of the funding for FSA will make 
sure that that on ramp to repayment is smooth, as smooth as 
possible for our borrowers.
    Mr. Smucker. Just one quick--can you commit, can you 
provide all communications that you provided to servicers as it 
pertains to repayment to this Committee?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. I believe that was in one of 
the letters. We are working in good faith to be responsive to 
those letters, thank you.
    Mr. Smucker. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Smucker. Mr. Thompson, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary, thank 
you for taking the time to be here today, much appreciated. As 
you know that I believe we all share the common goal of 
supporting academic excellence for students of all age, but 
particularly for young students early on in their academic 
careers, to build the foundation for success.
    Now funding from the targeted education incentive finance 
grants under Title I, Part A of the Elementary and Secondary 
Education Act is intended to go to schools serving low income, 
high poverty areas. Now these grants are allocated based on a 
complex formula that considers both the percentage and the 
number of disadvantaged students in a given area.
    As part of the Every Student Succeeds Act in 2015, Congress 
mandated a study on Title I funding for formulas, in order to 
ensure that funds are actually going to the local education 
agencies that need them the most. Madam Chairwoman, I would ask 
unanimous consent to insert into the record this 2019 report 
from the National Center for Education Statistics on the 
mathematical formula for Part A grants under Title I.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
    [The letters follow:]
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    Mr. Thompson. Thank you, ma'am. What this report shows is 
what local education agencies in my district and around the 
country have been saying for decades. The formula simply is not 
fair. The number weighting disproportionately sends funds to 
large school districts. The report found even if they have a 
low percentage of poverty because of the number weighting. This 
leaves school districts in low-income rural areas like my 
district on the short end of the stick.
    Mr. Secretary, the support to offset the impact of poverty 
on education and learning should not be based on your zip code. 
It should be on your actual circumstances. Mr. Secretary, what 
do you think is the solution to address this discrepancy?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman, for that 
question, for sharing that. I share, I share those beliefs. For 
far too long, I believe our rural communities have not been 
identified as in need as they really are. In fact, the pandemic 
showed that our rural communities were often the communities 
that had the least access to broadband, the least access to 
one-on-one devices and to highly certified teachers.
    We take that very seriously. I visited several rural 
communities. I have spoken to teachers and parents in rural 
communities and students, to hear from them directly. I am 
proud to say that the Title I dollars, rural districts would 
share on the $2.2 billion increase. The rural education program 
in our budget has $215 million.
    Mr. Thompson. Well, Mr. Secretary, you are talking about 
new money. I am talking about the formula. Is the formula 
broken? Is the formula inequitable, so that it favors large 
school districts despite low incidence of poverty? Does it 
favor them over quite frankly the remaining school districts 
that can have a significantly higher proportion of poverty? Is 
the formula broken?
    Secretary Cardona. Mr. Thompson, I will be happy to look at 
that and hear more from you, and look into that, because I do 
think----
    Mr. Thompson. Well, I would encourage you, because your 
Department actually conducted this, arranged for the study at 
the direction of this Committee, and the study that came back 
says that it is broken. It is inequitable, you know, is the--so 
we need a formal--the formula for distribution really has been 
affirmed by the work, the study that your Department led.
    We need a remedy that is similar to legislation I have 
introduced, that actually caused that study to occur called the 
ACE Act, All Children are Equal. Certainly, equal in terms of 
those that are living--so we are not--so it is the formula that 
is broken at this point.
    Moving on here, I also wanted to quickly touch on CTE 
programs. As co-chair of the Career and Technical Education 
Caucus, they are really a champion of Perkins V. I am proud of 
the bipartisan work, the support that this committee has done 
for students of all ages in terms of both academic and 
technical skills.
    Mr. Secretary, in the President's budget request, there is 
a substantial increase for CTE national programs, and while I 
have consistently supported robust funding for CTE programs 
under the Perkins formula, I am concerned that this funding 
would flow outside of this formula that so many schools rely 
on. Has your Department encountered any issues with the Perkins 
formula, and if not, why are you seeking to allocate additional 
funds outside of it, outside of the Perkins formula?
    Secretary Cardona. Sure, thank you for that. I just want to 
followup on the previous question about rural education. We do 
take that seriously. We have a new director of Rural 
Engagement. We created a Rural Action Team, and I would be 
happy to share more information with you.
    Mr. Thompson. That is great.
    Secretary Cardona. With regard to the Perkins program, that 
is the--that is the foundation of the work that we are going to 
be doing. We recognize, sir, that if we continue with the way 
we are going, we are never going to meet the demand. We are 
never going to meet the demand. What we need to do is not only 
engage in supporting State grants through Perkins, but also 
make sure that we are providing not only funding but support, 
guidance and a push to evolve our high schools to create better 
college and career pathways, to engage to our 2-year schools 
and our workforce partners.
    That has been very well-received in the states and the 
districts when I have conversations with Governors, mayors, 
school superintendents who want to do the right thing, school 
boards, but they just need technical assistance to make sure 
that their schools are evolving to meet the demand.
    Mr. Thompson. Well, I think they need the Perkins V formula 
assistance actually. As I visit these schools, these are 
secondary education schools. These folks have waiting lists 
today.
    They have the programs. They are partnering with those who 
sign in front of a paycheck, not the back of a paycheck to 
provide the right type of education so that when these kids 
graduate, they have got a diploma and certificates in one hand, 
and quite frankly multiple job offers in the other. Let us not 
mess this up by working outside the formula for Perkins V. 
Thank you, Madam Chair. I apologize for the additional time.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Scott, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you, Madam, Chair, and thank you Mr. 
Secretary for being with us. We have heard several references 
to certain schools where virtually no one is up to standard. 
What does ESSA do for schools like this? The solution we have 
heard is that if you let a few people sneak out the back door, 
they might take care of themselves, where the other 90 percent 
of course are stuck in a bad school with less resources.
    What does ESSA allow you to do, and what does your budget 
do to these schools that are clearly failing?
    Secretary Cardona. It allows for greater oversight and 
accountability. It allows for us to engage more directly with 
these districts, with these states, and where possible to 
direct where funds are going to be used or partner with them to 
build capacity to meet the needs of the students. As you said, 
the answer is not to give students a lottery ticket to 
somewhere else. It is to make sure that all schools are 
performing at high levels.
    I am proud of the work that we are doing to what we call 
Raise the Bar around academic proficiency, reading and math, 
civics history, sciences. We need to do better if our students 
are going to be prepared for these jobs, and we have a plan, 
sir. We have a plan to do that, and I am happy to share it with 
anyone on the Committee that is interested in learning more.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Now I think you have pointed out in 
response to the decision to open schools during the pandemic, 
that decision was made on a local and State basis, not on a 
Federal basis. The Federal Government did provide money to make 
that happen. You mentioned the ventilation systems in a lot of 
schools had problems with PPE, transportation money, hired 
nurses and counselors, catch up, hire extra tutors in summer 
programs. Could you have--could these schools have opened 
safely without the ARPA money?
    Secretary Cardona. Across the country the schools relied on 
the American Rescue Plan dollars. We are talking about 
students, not Republican students, Democrat students or 
parents. We are talking about the 50 million students in our K-
12 schools. I have heard from red communities, blue communities 
that those dollars helped safely reopen school, get the 
students the materials that they needed, provide compensatory 
support after school.
    There were more students in summer school programs this 
summer than any other time in our country's history because of 
the American Rescue Plan dollars. All students benefited from 
it.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. We have heard about the cost of debt 
cancellation, student debt cancellation and what it costs each 
taxpayer. We did not hear the calculation for how much it costs 
each taxpayer for the Trump tax cut, which was actually bigger, 
with 80 percent of the benefits with the top 1 percent and 
corporations. We have not heard that calculation.
    We have dealt with the--you have dealt with the public 
service loan forgiveness program. Under the Trump 
administration, virtually no one earned a discharge when they 
thought--because the program was so messed up. How many people 
have benefited from the public service loan forgiveness under 
your administration?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Well, when we came into our 
positions, we were told fix this broken system, and part of 
that was the public service loan forgiveness, intended for 
teachers, for nurses, for police officers, for veterans, all 
those people that we were calling essential 3 years ago today. 
Well, from 2017 to 2021, when that program was in effect, 7,000 
Americans benefited from it.
    OK, we worked to fix that. From 2021 till today, over 
600,000 people have taken advantage of it. Over $42 billion in 
approved debt relief have been provided to teachers, to people 
who choose public service. I would say it is working and it is 
helping keep people in those professions that we need.
    Mr. Scott. Well, we need to make sure the loan servicers 
are doing their job to inform people of the appropriate program 
they need to be in. I am not satisfied that they are doing what 
they need to be doing. Are you aware of the Loan Act that 
increases Pell grants and makes public service loan forgiveness 
more generous and reduces interest rate? If not, if you could 
have your staff review it and get back to us, we would 
appreciate it.
    Secretary Cardona. Will do.
    Mr. Scott. I just wanted to express in the final seconds 
the funding for mental health, Title I, early childhood 
education, extracurricular activities, CTE as the gentleman 
from Pennsylvania has mentioned, were all valuable, and we need 
to be putting more money into those programs, not less as it 
would be under the Republican cuts. Thank you so much for being 
with us today.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Scott. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Scott. Mr. Williams, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Williams. Mr. Secretary, I understand it is your last 
question. I admire you for your endurance, and I am told that 
they--they raised the temperature as the hearing goes on to 
simulate summer school, so I think that is where we are in the 
cycle.
    There are currently 56-57 million children K-12 in our 
country today approximately. 90 percent of those are in our 
public schools, and 10 percent are in other forms of education. 
Over the last several years sir, we have seen, as has been well 
documented and noted, a shocking decline in children's ability 
to read at grade level, to perform math at grade level.
    This is particularly concerning in my district, where we 
have some of the poorest schools in our Nation, and has been 
noted by my colleagues and others, I am certain that the 
parents in these school districts, in the poorest of our school 
districts love their children and have hope for their children 
every bit as much as elsewhere. I have two fundamental 
questions, sir. I come out of the military service early in my 
career, and it was a very unforgiving environment of 
accountability for leadership.
    It concerns me that we could see such a precipitous drop in 
the performance of our children and the concern that we all 
share for what that means, not just for their lives but also 
for society, for our culture, for our economy. What 
accountability are you enforcing in your organization among 
your leadership? To what degree are you holding them 
responsible for this precipitous drop in performance of our 
children?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you for that question and 
like you, I feel a great sense of urgency, of not only 
recovering from the impact of the pandemic, but really looking 
at the data from 2019 as unacceptable. Our students should be 
achieving at the highest levels in the world. We have a plan to 
address that, and our plan we call it Raise the Bar strategy. I 
would be happy to share more information on it.
    We are focusing relentlessly on literacy, numeracy, 
improving STEM outcomes and giving students a well-rounded 
education that prepares them for choices when they graduate, 
whether it is career or college. With regard to accountability, 
we are engaging regularly with states. We are monitoring their 
assessment strategies, making sure that all students are being 
accounted for. We collect data on disparities of students, and 
make sure that we call out any disparities.
    More than call out, because that does not change behaviors, 
is really support and make sure that we are providing the best 
technical assistance possible at the Department of Education.
    Mr. Williams. If I may just bring it to a little bit more 
to the point of my question, the accountability that I am 
accustomed to is that leaders are held accountable, not the 
states, not the schools, but leaders in your organization. What 
plan do you have to hold the leadership of the Department of 
Education accountable for this lapse, including going back to 
2019 and before?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. Well, keep in mind that the data 
decline has taken a couple of decades to get to where we are. 
What we are doing is putting a plan in action that's focusing 
on academic rigor, highly qualified teachers. If you look at 
our plan, it is focusing on some of the root causes. We do not 
have highly qualified teachers in some of our neediest areas. 
We are focusing not only dollars but resources and our 
technical assistance on improving that, literacy and numeracy.
    We are also funding programs that support literacy and 
numeracy. While we take responsibility and we have a plan for 
it, we recognize that this has been decades in the making.
    Mr. Williams. I appreciate that, and I look forward to 
learning about your plan, but more importantly will be watching 
for accountability. Last question hopefully of the day perhaps, 
but yes, I believe that children and parents and families 
deserve a choice in their education, and I would support a 
model where the resources follow the child and not the 
institutions, particularly when we find our institutions are 
failing so broadly.
    What pilot projects, what programs, what initiatives are a 
part of your Department that follow this model of school choice 
and where resources perhaps follow children, preferably in the 
most underprivileged of our neighborhoods?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. We do support public charter 
schools, and we have funding for that. Let me just close by 
saying I take very seriously as a father, as an educator, my 
responsibility for every child's learning in this country, and 
I will never support a system that has winners and losers. All 
students deserve to be in a high quality school, and every 
parent should be able to select their local neighborhood school 
as a high quality school.
    That is the work of the Department of Education. That is 
what I am committed to as Secretary. Thank you.
    Mr. Williams. Thank you. I think school is out, and my time 
has expired.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. I believe that takes 
care of all the members who were here who wished to ask 
questions. Secretary Cardona, I thank you again for coming to 
testify before the Committee today. I thank you again for your 
patience as we went to vote, and without objection, there being 
no further business, the Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 2:59 p.m., the Committee adjourned.]
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