[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                        H.R. 1208 AND H.R. 6180
=======================================================================

                          LEGISLATIVE HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON INDIAN AND INSULAR AFFAIRS

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                        Wednesday, June 26, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-131

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources
       
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                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES

                     BRUCE WESTERMAN, AR, Chairman
                    DOUG LAMBORN, CO, Vice Chairman
                  RAUL M. GRIJALVA, AZ, Ranking Member

Doug Lamborn, CO			Grace F. Napolitano, CA
Robert J. Wittman, VA			Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, 	
Tom McClintock, CA			    CNMI
Paul Gosar, AZ				Jared Huffman, CA
Garret Graves, LA			Ruben Gallego, AZ
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS		Joe Neguse, CO
Doug LaMalfa, CA			Mike Levin, CA
Daniel Webster, FL			Katie Porter, CA
Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon, PR		Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM
Russ Fulcher, ID			Melanie A. Stansbury, NM
Pete Stauber, MN			Mary Sattler Peltola, AK
John R. Curtis, UT			Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, NY
Tom Tiffany, WI				Kevin Mullin, CA
Jerry Carl, AL				Val T. Hoyle, OR
Matt Rosendale, MT			Sydney Kamlager-Dove, CA
Lauren Boebert, CO			Seth Magaziner, RI
Cliff Bentz, OR				Nydia M. Velazquez, NY
Jen Kiggans, VA				Ed Case, HI
Jim Moylan, GU				Debbie Dingell, MI
Wesley P. Hunt, TX			Susie Lee, NV
Mike Collins, GA
Anna Paulina Luna, FL
John Duarte, CA
Harriet M. Hageman, WY

                    Vivian Moeglein, Staff Director
                      Tom Connally, Chief Counsel
                 Lora Snyder, Democratic Staff Director
                   http://naturalresources.house.gov
                                 
                                 ------                                

               SUBCOMMITTEE ON INDIAN AND INSULAR AFFAIRS

                     HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, WY, Chair

                JENNIFFER GONZALEZ-COLON, PR, Vice Chair

               TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, NM, Ranking Member

Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS         Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, 
Doug LaMalfa, CA                         CNMI
Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon, PR         Ruben Gallego, AZ
Jerry Carl, AL                       Nydia M. Velazquez, NY
Jim Moylan, GU                       Ed Case, HI
Bruce Westerman, AR, ex officio      Raul M. Grijalva, AZ, ex officio

                              ----------                                

                               CONTENTS

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                                                                   Page

Hearing Memo.....................................................     v
Hearing held on Wednesday, June 26, 2024.........................     1

Statement of Members:

    Hageman, Hon. Harriet M., a Representative in Congress from 
      the State of Wyoming.......................................     2
    Leger Fernandez, Hon. Teresa, a Representative in Congress 
      from the State of New Mexico...............................     3
    Westerman, Hon. Bruce, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Arkansas..........................................     4

    Panel I:

    Carl, Hon. Jerry, a Representative in Congress from the State 
      of Alabama.................................................     6
    Cole, Hon. Tom, a Representative in Congress from the State 
      of Oklahoma................................................    11

Statement of Witnesses:

    Panel II:

    Isom-Clause, Kathryn, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Indian 
      Affairs, U.S. Department of the Interior, Washington, DC...     7
        Prepared statement of....................................     8
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    10
    Pierite, Hon. Marshall, Chairman, Tunica-Biloxi Tribe of 
      Louisiana, Marksville, Louisiana...........................    13
        Prepared statement of....................................    14
        Supplemental testimony submitted for the record..........    16
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    20
    Bryan, Hon. Stephanie, Tribal Chair, Poarch Creek Indians, 
      Atmore, Alabama............................................    22
        Prepared statement of....................................    23
        Supplemental testimony submitted for the record..........    32
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    33
    Rabbitt, Hon. David, District 2 Supervisor, Sonoma County 
      Board of Supervisors, Sonoma, California...................    35
        Prepared statement of....................................    37
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    42

Additional Materials Submitted for the Record:

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Westerman

        Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, Letter to 
          National Indian Gaming Commission......................    58
        Coalition of Large Tribes, Letter to Senate and the 
          Committee..............................................    60
        Creek Nation East of the Mississippi, Letter to Alabama 
          Historical Commission..................................    62
        Muscogee (Creek) Nation, Letter to the Committee.........    65
        Robb & Ross, Letter to the Committee.....................    71
        United Indian Nations of Oklahoma, Resolution No. 2024-02    73
        United States Department of the Interior, Memo to 
          Assistant Secretary, Indian Affairs....................    75

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Grijalva

        USET Sovereignty Protection Fund, Statement for the 
          Record.................................................    76
    Submissions for the Record by Representative Leger Fernandez

        Bureau of Indian Affairs 25 CFR Part 151, Land 
          Acquisitions...........................................    56
        Indian Gaming Regulatory Act.............................    56

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


To:        House Committee on Natural Resources Republican Members

From:     Indian and Insular Affairs Subcommittee staff, Ken 
        Degenfelder (Ken.Degenfelder@mail.house.gov), Jocelyn Broman 
        (Jocelyn.Broman @mail.house.gov), and Kirstin Liddell 
        (Kirstin.Liddell@mail.house.gov) x6-9725

Date:     Wednesday, June 26, 2024

Subject:   Legislative Hearing on two bills: H.R. 1208 and H.R. 6180
________________________________________________________________________
        _______

    The Subcommittee on Indian and Insular Affairs will hold a 
legislative hearing on two bills: H.R. 1208 (Rep. Cole), To amend the 
Act of June 18, 1934, to reaffirm the authority of the Secretary of the 
Interior to take land into trust for Indian Tribes, and for other 
purposes; and H.R. 6180 (Rep. Carl), ``Poarch Band of Creek Indians 
Lands Act'' on Wednesday, June 26, 2024, at 10:15 a.m. in 1324 
Longworth House Office Building.

    Member offices are requested to notify Haig Kadian (Haig.Kadian 
@mail.house.gov) by 4:30 p.m. on Tuesday, June 25, 2024, if their 
member intends to participate in the hearing.
I. KEY MESSAGES

     Pursuant to the 2009 Supreme Court decision in Carcieri v. 
            Salazar, the Secretary of the Interior (Secretary) is only 
            authorized to place land into trust for federally 
            recognized tribes that can demonstrate that they were 
            ``under federal jurisdiction'' when the Indian 
            Reorganization Act (IRA) became law in 1934.

     H.R. 1208 would amend the IRA to grant the Secretary the 
            ability to place land into trust for the benefit of any 
            federally recognized tribe.

     H.R. 6180 would treat the Poarch Band of Creek Indians as 
            covered by the IRA and reaffirm any lands previously taken 
            into trust for their benefit by the Secretary.

     The Secretary's ability to take land into trust removes 
            land from local control, placing it under federal and 
            tribal control. Land taken into trust within a community 
            has implications for taxation, zoning, and other local or 
            state laws regarding property.

     Changing the impact of Carcieri v. Salazar also has 
            implications for Indian gaming development.

II. WITNESSES

     Ms. Kathryn Isom-Clause, Deputy Assistant Secretary for 
            Indian Affairs, U.S. Department of the Interior, 
            Washington, DC. [H.R. 1208 and H.R. 6180]

     The Hon. Marshall Pierite, Chairman, Tunica-Biloxi Tribe 
            of Louisiana, Marksville, LA [H.R. 1208]

     The Hon. Stephanie Bryan, Tribal Chair, Poarch Creek 
            Indians, Atmore, AL [H.R. 6180]

     The Hon. David Rabbitt, District 2 Supervisor, Sonoma 
            County Board of Supervisors, Sonoma, CA [H.R. 1208 and H.R. 
            6180]

III. BACKGROUND

H.R. 1208 (Rep. Cole), To amend the Act of June 18, 1934, to reaffirm 
        the authority of the Secretary of the Interior to take land 
        into trust for Indian Tribes, and for other purposes.

    H.R. 1208 would amend the IRA \1\ and grant the Secretary the 
ability to place land into trust for the benefit of any federally 
recognized tribe, not just those considered ``under federal 
jurisdiction'' when the IRA became law on June 18, 1934. This would 
reverse the 2009 Supreme Court decision Carcieri v. Salazar.\2\ Similar 
legislation has been introduced in the past seven Congresses, and the 
past ten democratic President's budget requests have included proposed 
legislative language to accomplish the same goal.\3\
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    \1\ 48 Stat. 984.
    \2\ Carcieri v. Salazar, 555 U.S. 379 (2009).
    \3\ Included in FY12-FY17 President's budget request and again in 
FY22-FY25.
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Land into Trust Authority

    Section 5 of the IRA \4\ authorizes the Secretary to take land into 
trust for the benefit of an Indian tribe ``in his discretion.'' The IRA 
was enacted as a remedy to the allotment policies exemplified by the 
Dawes Act,\5\ which resulted in a reduction of Indian land and 
continued poverty and poor conditions on reservations, as detailed in 
the 1928 Meriam Report.\6\ Land held in trust for individual Indians 
and federally recognized tribes is generally immune from state and 
local jurisdiction and taxation. Depending on the location of the land 
and the date it was put in trust, a tribe may be able to operate a 
casino on land held in trust pursuant to the Indian Gaming Regulatory 
Act (IGRA).\7\
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    \4\ 48 Stat. 985.
    \5\ Act of February 8, 1887, Ch. 119, 24 Stat. 388.
    \6\ Meriam Report. 1928. https://www.uaf.edu/tribal/academics/112/
unit-2/indianreorganization act1934.php.
    \7\ 25 U.S.C. 2701 et seq.
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    Currently, there are approximately 56 million surface acres and 59 
million acres of subsurface minerals estates held in trust by the 
United States for American Indians, Alaska Natives and for federally 
recognized tribes.\8\ Lands can be taken into trust through mandatory 
or discretionary acquisitions. A mandatory acquisition involves 
Congress, or a court order, mandating the Secretary take specific land 
into trust for the benefit of a tribe. Discretionary trust acquisitions 
involve the Secretary using the authority granted to them under the IRA 
to take land into trust on behalf of the tribe.\9\
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    \8\ ``About Us'' Bureau of Indian Affairs. https://www.bia.gov/
about-us.
    \9\ CRS. Tribal Lands: An Overview. October 21, 2021. https://
crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11944.
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    The Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) has issued regulations outlining 
the Secretary's process to take land into trust for individual Indians 
or federally recognized tribes.\10\ Applications are often seen as 
procedural because they are generally approved irrespective of whether 
taking the land into trust would have local, state, or federal tax and 
governmental impacts.\11\ There is currently no standard for removing 
land from trust if a judicial decision deems the application's approval 
unlawful.\12\
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    \10\ 25 CFR Part 151. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-25/part-
151.
    \11\ SCIA Hearing. Carcieri: Bringing Certainty to Trust Land 
Acquisitions. November 2013. See the Late Senator Feinstein`s Statement 
referencing Butte County residents voting against a casino only for DOI 
to approve the land-into-trust application for a casino. https://
www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-113shrg87133/html/CHRG-
113shrg87133.htm.
    \12\ 25 CFR 151. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-25/part-151.
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The Carcieri v. Salazar Decision and Effects

    The Carcieri v. Salazar Supreme Court decision provided a limit on 
the secretarial power to take land into trust. Resolving a lawsuit 
filed by the Governor of Rhode Island, a 2009 Supreme Court decision 
held that the trust land provisions of the IRA may only benefit tribes 
that were ``under federal jurisdiction'' on June 18, 1934, the date of 
the Act's enactment.\13\ These are generally tribes with reservations 
whose lands were allotted under 19th-century laws. Following allotment, 
millions of acres of land left Indian ownership. A key goal of Congress 
in enacting the IRA was to remedy the land loss by Indians in tribes in 
existence in 1934.\14\
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    \13\ 555 U.S. 379.
    \14\ 25 US 5103.
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    The actual impact on all tribes since the decision is unknown for 
two reasons. First, since 2009, the Department of the Interior (DOI) 
has not divulged a list of tribes that were or were not under federal 
jurisdiction in 1934. Tribes applying to have land placed into trust 
through the BIA's process generally have to prove that they were under 
federal jurisdiction in 1934, often defending their history, 
membership, and even the tribe's existence in their land-to-trust 
applications.
    Second, during the Obama Administration, the DOI Solicitor issued 
an ``M-Opinion'' interpreting the definition of ``under federal 
jurisdiction'' to continue the acquisition of lands for tribes 
recognized after 1934. This controversial decision by the Obama 
Administration has allowed the Secretary to continue taking lands into 
trust for federally recognized tribes but it has also led to ambiguity 
and lawsuits.\15\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \15\ U.S. Department of the Interior. ``The Meaning of `Under 
Federal Jurisdiction' for Purposes of the Indian Reorganization Act.'' 
March 2014. https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.open gov.ibmcloud.com/files/
uploads/M-37029.pdf.
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    For example, one land into trust application from the Mashpee 
Wampanoag Tribe of Massachusetts for its ``initial reservation'' caused 
three lawsuits and three different secretarial decisions across three 
different presidential administrations, because the tribe was 
recognized in 2007. Local residents disagreed with the 2015 land into 
trust decision, as well as plans for a subsequent 400,000-square foot 
class III gaming-resort complex, and challenged the decision in federal 
court.\16\ They argued, pursuant to Carcieri v. Salazar, that the 
Secretary did not have authority to take the land into trust since the 
Mashpee tribe was recognized after the IRA's enactment date.\17\ A 
Massachusetts district court ruled for the residents; then the 
Secretary issued a new decision in 2018 stating that the Secretary 
could not take the land into trust. The Mashpee tribe then challenged 
the 2018 secretarial decision, and a D.C. district court ruled in favor 
of the tribe, resulting in another 2021 secretarial decision declaring 
the Mashpee tribe under federal jurisdiction in 1934.\18\ The 2021 
secretarial decision was challenged in court, with a Massachusetts 
district court this time rejecting the resident's challenge and siding 
with the argument based on Carcieri v. Salazar, citing evidence of 
Mashpee children attending the Carlise Indian School under the federal 
assimilation policy, thus proving the tribe was under federal 
jurisdiction before 1934.\19\ This merry-go-round of litigation took 
years to complete and ended at the same conclusion as the original 2015 
secretarial decision to take the land into trust for the Mashpee.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \16\ Littlefield et al v. Department of the Interior, U.S. District 
Court-District of Massachusetts, Civil Action No. 16-10184-WGY, 
Memorandum and Order, July 28, 2016. https://massgaming.com/wp-content/
uploads/Littlefield-et-al-vs-US-Department-of-Interior.pdf.
    \17\ Id.
    \18\ DOI fact sheet. Determination that the Secretary has Authority 
to Take Land in Trust for the Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe. https://
www.bia.gov/sites/default/files/dup/assets/as-ia/oig/gaming_decisions/
508%20Compliant%202021.12.22%20Mashpee%20Decision%20Fact%20Sheet 
%20and%20QA.pdf.
    \19\ Department of Justice. Office of Public Affairs. ``Justice 
Department's Successful Defense of Lands in Trust Case Will Preserve 
Land in Massachusetts for the Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe.'' April 2024. 
https://www.justice.gov/opa/blog/justice-departments-successful-
defense-lands-trust-case-will-preserve-land-massachusetts.
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Local Concerns Regarding Future Land into Trust Decisions and Effect on 
        Indian Gaming

    Some local and state governments have concerns with a ``fix'' to 
overturn the Carcieri v. Salazar decision. The National Association of 
Counties (NACo) has routinely requested that Congress address the 
Carcieri v. Salazar decision as part of a larger ``comprehensive 
examination'' centered on reform to the fee into trust land 
process.\20\ Land held in trust does not fall under state or local 
jurisdiction for law enforcement or taxation. Removing the land from 
state or local jurisdiction impacts counties, states, and other local 
stakeholders. Generally, these stakeholders are concerned they do not 
have enough involvement in the land-into-trust application process, 
even though it directly impacts their interests, and quick decision 
time frames make it challenging to be included in the process.\21\
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    \20\ NACo. ``U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs Unveils New Final Rule 
for Tribal Land-in-Trust Process.'' January 2024. https://www.naco.org/
news/us-bureau-indian-affairs-unveils-new-final-rule-tribal-land-trust-
process.
    \21\ NACo. ``U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs Unveils New Final Rule 
for Tribal Land-in-Trust Process.'' January 2024. https://www.naco.org/
news/us-bureau-indian-affairs-unveils-new-final-rule-tribal-land-trust-
process.
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    In December 2023, the BIA promulgated new land into trust 
acquisition regulations where the agency included a process to 
determine whether a tribe was ``under federal jurisdiction'' on June 
18, 1934, reflecting the Carcieri v. Salazar decision.\22\ During the 
rulemaking process, NACo submitted comments requesting the BIA take 
into consideration the opinions of state and county governments to 
avoid the ``controversy, conflict and costly litigation between tribes 
and state and county governments.'' \23\ However, the final rule 
published in December 2023 maintained the 30-day comment period for 
state and local stakeholders. Changes made in the final rule included: 
acknowledgment that the Secretary's policy is favorable towards taking 
land into trust for the benefit of tribes; a requirement that the BIA 
must issue a decision within 120 days of the application being 
submitted; and the acknowledgment of how to determine whether a tribe 
was ``under federal jurisdiction'' as ruled in Carcieri v. Salazar.\24\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \22\ 25 CFR Sec. 151.4. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-25/
chapter-I/subchapter-H/part-151.
    \23\ NACo. Comments Letter to Assistant Secretary Newland re-
Proposed Rule--25 CFR Part 151 (Land Acquisition); Docket No. BIA-2022-
0004. On file with IIA Staff.
    \24\ NACo. ``U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs Unveils New Final Rule 
for Tribal Land-in-Trust Process.'' January 2024. https://www.naco.org/
news/us-bureau-indian-affairs-unveils-new-final-rule-tribal-land-trust-
process#::text=NACo%20also%20opposes%20administrative%20action, 
fee%20land%20into%20trust%20process.
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    Another change involved the acquisition of land into trust outside 
of a tribe's land boundaries. Previously, there was a ``bungee cord'' 
approach to land as the distance from it to a tribe's reservation 
grew--meaning the further from a tribe's preexisting reservation, the 
more scrutiny applied to the request. Under the final rule this 
approach is no longer taken into consideration. The Secretary now 
presumes that the tribe will benefit from the land being taken into 
trust.
    Any land into trust process changes also have implications for 
tribal gaming projects as new gaming projects can only be developed on 
certain lands as laid out by IGRA.\25\ Under IGRA, tribes can conduct 
gaming activities on ``Indian lands,'' which are defined as 
reservation, trust, or restricted-fee land. While IGRA prohibits 
gaming-related activities on lands taken into trust after October 17, 
1988, various circumstances allow a tribe to circumvent the 
prohibition.\26\
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    \25\ IGRA, P.L. 100-497, 25 U.S.C. Sec. Sec. 2701-2721.
    \26\ Murray, Mariel. Indian Gaming Regulatory Act: Gaming on Indian 
Lands. CRS. https://www.crs.gov/reports/pdf/IF12527/IF12527.pdf.
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    Tribal revenues from gaming support the overall well-being of their 
tribal community, as required by IGRA.\27\ In 2023, over 200 tribes 
owned, operated, or licensed more than 500 gaming businesses in 29 
states.\28\ On average, tribal gaming increases employment by 2.4 
percent and wages by 5.6 percent on tribal reservations.\29\ However, 
this is not the case for every tribe, and successful gaming operations 
are highly attributed to the overall support seen in the surrounding 
areas.
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    \27\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 2710.
    \28\ Murray, Mariel. Indian Gaming Regulatory Act: Gaming on Indian 
Lands. CRS. https://www.crs.gov/reports/pdf/IF12527/IF12527.pdf.
    \29\ Wheeler, Laurel. More than Chance: The Local Labor Market 
Effects of Tribal Gaming. Center for Indian Country Development. 
Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis. 2023. https://
www.minneapolisfed.org/-/media/assets/papers/cicdwp/2023/cicd-wp-2023-
02.pdf.
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    H.R. 1208 aims to streamline the process of placing lands into 
trust for tribes that were federally recognized after 1934. This could 
impact areas with tribes that have gained federal recognition more 
recently, including but not limited to the impact of potential 
expansion of tribal gaming operations.

    Staff contact: Ken Degenfelder (Ken.Degenfelder@mail.house.gov) and 
Jocelyn Broman (Jocelyn.Broman@mail.house.gov), (x6-9725)
H.R. 6180 (Rep. Carl), ``Poarch Band of Creek Indians Lands Act''

    H.R. 6180 would recognize the Poarch Band of Creek Indians as 
covered by the IRA and reaffirm any lands previously taken into trust 
for the tribe's benefit by the Secretary as trust land. Any pending 
challenges to land taken into trust would be invalid if based upon the 
argument that the tribe was not under federal jurisdiction in 1934.
    The Poarch Band of Creek Indians (Poarch Band) is located 
approximately 56 miles north of Mobile, Alabama. It is a segment of the 
original Creek Nation that resided in Alabama and Georgia. Following 
the War of 1812, the Creeks who supported the United States signed the 
Treaty of Fort Jackson, ceding their land in Alabama.\30\ In 1836, the 
federal government forcibly moved 15,000 Creeks to Oklahoma.\31\ The 
Creek Indians who remained in the vicinity of Poarch, Alabama, became 
known as the Poarch Band of Creek Indians, remaining a cohesive tribal 
group. It was not until August 11, 1984, that the BIA recognized them 
federally. After recognition, the Poarch Band had their lands in 
Alabama and Florida administratively placed into trust by the Secretary 
under Section 5 of the IRA.\32\
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    \30\ House Report. Poarch Band of Creek Indians Land Reaffirmation 
Act. House of Representatives. H.R. 115-513. 2018. https://
www.congress.gov/congressional-report/115th-congress/house-report/513/
1?outputFormat=pdf.
    \31\ History Channel. Trail of Tears. September 26, 2023. https://
www.history.com/topics/native-american-history/trail-of-tears.
    \32\ House Report. Poarch Band of Creek Indians Land Reaffirmation 
Act. House of Representatives. H.R. 115-513. 2018. https://
www.congress.gov/congressional-report/115th-congress/house-report/513/
1?outputFormat=pdf.
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Litigation regarding Land into Trust in Alabama

    As noted above, the Carcieri v. Salazar decision left some tribes 
in limbo regarding whether the Secretary was authorized to take land 
into trust for them. The Poarch Band is one of those tribes because it 
was recognized through the BIA's administrative process in 1984, nearly 
50 years after the enactment of the IRA, and the Secretary took land in 
Alabama and Florida into trust for the tribe prior to 2009.
    According to Poarch Band's testimony at a 2015 hearing, many of its 
lands were placed in trust prior to 2009 pursuant to the IRA, and these 
trust lands have been developed with the construction of buildings and 
businesses, including casinos.\33\ If a court were to decide these 
lands are not lawfully held in trust on the grounds the Poarch Band was 
recognized after 1934, the lands could lose their trust status, 
exposing the tribe to state taxation and civil regulation, which in 
turn could lead to the closure of tribal businesses and the dismantling 
of facilities. In addition, the tribe's casinos would become subject to 
Alabama State law, which could lead to the modification or closure of 
the gambling facilities that employ large numbers of people and 
generate revenues for the tribe's government.\34\ In 2016, the Poarch 
Band of Creek Indians prevailed in the U.S. 11th Circuit Court of 
Appeals, where a unanimous decision concluded that the tribe's 
reservation was protected under the IRA and could not be taxed by the 
state of Alabama.\35\ However, this decision does not necessarily 
prevent further litigation on future parcels of land the Secretary 
could take into trust for the tribe.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \33\ Subcommittee on Indian, Insular, and Alaska Native Affairs 
Subcommittee. Testimony of Attorney General Lori Stinson. May 14, 2015. 
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/II/II24/20150514/103445/HHRG-114-II24-
Wstate-StinsonL-20150514.pdf.
    \34\ Id.
    \35\ ``Poarch Creeks Win Ruling in Dispute Over Taxation of Trust 
Lands.'' July 2016. https://indianz.com/News/2016/07/12/poarch-creeks-
win-ruling-in-dispute-over.asp.
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    The Poarch Band currently operates three Class II casinos in 
Alabama.\36\ As noted above for H.R. 1208, local and state governments 
generally have concerns with ``fixes'' surrounding the Carcieri v. 
Salazar decision. However, H.R. 6180 has the support of multiple County 
Commissioners, Mayors, City Council Members, and state legislators in 
Alabama.\37\ Local support highlights the local effect of these 
decisions and the ability for tribes to gain support for land into 
trust decisions.
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    \36\ The Poarch Band of Creek Indians Tribal Gaming Commission. 
https://pci-tgc.org/.
    \37\ Letter of Support from Alabama Legislators. September 2023. On 
File with IIA Staff.
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    The Muscogee (Creek) Nation of Oklahoma (Muscogee) has previously 
testified before the House Committee on Natural Resources concerning a 
parcel of land taken into trust for the Poarch Band and used for a 
gambling facility. The Muscogee have stated that the area known as 
``Hickory Ground'' is a sacred site for the tribe containing, or 
previously containing, the remains of Creek ancestors.\38\ The Muscogee 
filed a lawsuit in 2012 on this issue, most recently asking a federal 
appellate court to reinstate the lawsuit after being thrown out in 
2021.\39\
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    \38\ House Report. Poarch Band of Creek Indians Land Reaffirmation 
Act. House of Representatives. H.R. 115-513. 2018. https://
www.congress.gov/congressional-report/115th-congress/house-report/513/
1?outputFormat=pdf.
    \39\ AP.'' Muscogee Nation Renews Lawsuit over Alabama Casino They 
Say Desecrated a Sacred Site.'' July 2023. https://apnews.com/article/
muscogee-poarch-creek-lawsuit-graves-sacred-
ef741fb801a47678a423379778e6c040.

    Staff contact: Ken Degenfelder (Ken.Degenfelder@mail.house.gov) and 
Jocelyn Broman (Jocelyn.Broman@mail.house.gov), (x6-9725)
IV. MAJOR PROVISIONS & SECTION-BY-SECTION

H.R. 1208 (Rep. Cole), To amend the Act of June 18, 1934, to reaffirm 
        the authority of the Secretary of the Interior to take land 
        into trust for Indian Tribes, and for other purposes.
Section 1. Reaffirmation of Authority

    Amends the Indian Reorganization Act (25 U.S.C. 5129 et. seq.) to 
authorize the Secretary to take land into trust for any federally 
recognized tribe. This removes the need for a tribe to be ``under 
federal jurisdiction'' on June 18, 1934. The bill would further ratify 
any action taken by the Secretary to place land into trust for a 
federally recognized tribe and ensure that the decision cannot be 
challenged based on the Carcieri v. Salazar reasoning. Additionally, a 
provision is included to limit the impacts of this legislation to this 
subsection of the IRA only and that any statutory reference to the IRA 
is to be considered amended by this legislation.
H.R. 6180 (Rep. Carl), ``Poarch Band of Creek Indians Lands Act''
Section 2. Applicability of Indian Reorganization Act
    Under the Indian Reorganization Act (25 U.S.C. 5129 et. seq.), the 
Poarch Band of Creek Indians is deemed to be a federally recognized 
tribe while stating that any lands taken into trust by the Secretary 
for the tribe are to be ratified and confirmed. The bill has a 
retroactive effect, stating the effectiveness of the legislation will 
be as if it was in effect when the IRA was implemented on June 18, 
1934.
V. CBO COST ESTIMATE

H.R. 1208 (Rep. Cole), To amend the Act of June 18, 1934, to reaffirm 
        the authority of the Secretary of the Interior to take land 
        into trust for Indian Tribes, and for other purposes.

    CBO has not issued an estimate for H.R. 1208. However, CBO issued a 
cost estimate for a similar bill from the 113th Congress, S. 2188, 
stating the bill would not have a significant impact on the federal 
budget.\40\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \40\ CBO. Cost Estimate for S. 2188. September 2014. https://
www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/113th-congress-2013-2014/costestimate/
s21880.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
H.R. 6180 (Rep. Carl), ``Poarch Band of Creek Indians Lands Act''

    CBO has not issued an estimate for H.R. 6180.
VI. ADMINISTRATION POSITION

H.R. 1208 (Rep. Cole), To amend the Act of June 18, 1934, to reaffirm 
        the authority of the Secretary of the Interior to take land 
        into trust for Indian Tribes, and for other purposes.

    Unknown, however, the Biden Administration has supported similar 
legislative proposals, indicating support for overturning the Carcieri 
v. Salazar decision legislatively. Most recently, President Biden's FY 
2025 Budget for the Department of the Interior included similar 
language.\41\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \41\ Department of the Interior FY 2025 Budget. Appendix. P. 661. 
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/int_fy2025.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
H.R. 6180 (Rep. Carl), ``Poarch Band of Creek Indians Lands Act''

    Unknown.
VII. EFFECT ON CURRENT LAW (RAMSEYER)

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

 
LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON H.R. 1208, TO AMEND THE ACT OF JUNE 18, 1934, TO 
 REAFFIRM THE AUTHORITY OF THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR TO TAKE LAND 
INTO TRUST FOR INDIAN TRIBES, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES; AND H.R. 6180, TO 
  REAFFIRM THE APPLICABILITY OF THE INDIAN REORGANIZATION ACT TO THE 
 POARCHBAND OF CREEK INDIANS, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES, ``POARCH BAND OF 
                       CREEK INDIANS LANDS ACT''

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, June 26, 2024

                     U.S. House of Representatives

               Subcommittee on Indian and Insular Affairs

                     Committee on Natural Resources

                             Washington, DC

                              ----------                              

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:18 a.m. in 
Room 1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Harriet M. 
Hageman [Chairwoman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Hageman, Radewagen, Gonzalez-
Colon, Carl, Westerman; and Leger Fernandez.
    Also present: Representative Cole.

    Ms. Hageman. The Subcommittee on Indian and Insular Affairs 
will come to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the Subcommittee at any time.
    The Subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on two 
bills: H.R. 1208 and H.R. 6180.
    Under Committee Rule 4(f), any oral opening statements at 
hearings are limited to the Chairman and the Ranking Minority 
Member. I, therefore, ask unanimous consent that all other 
Members' opening statements be made part of the hearing record 
if they are submitted in accordance with Committee Rule 3(o).
    Without objection, so ordered.
    I ask unanimous consent that the gentleman from Oklahoma, 
Mr. Cole; and the gentlewoman from Minnesota, Ms. McCollum, be 
allowed to sit and participate in today's hearing.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    I will now recognize myself for an opening statement.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
               CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING

    Ms. Hageman. Today, the Subcommittee is meeting to consider 
two bills. These two bills center on the issue raised in the 
2009 Supreme Court decision Carcieri v. Salazar. In that 
decision, the Supreme Court ruled that the Secretary of the 
Interior, or Secretary, is only authorized to place land into 
trust for federally recognized tribes that can show that they 
were under ``Federal jurisdiction'' when the Indian 
Reorganization Act, or IRA, became law in 1934.
    First, we have H.R. 1208, introduced by Congressman Cole, 
which would amend the Act of June 18, 1934, the Indian 
Reorganization Act, to grant the Secretary the ability to place 
lands into trust for the benefit of any federally recognized 
tribe. This legislation would essentially resolve the decision 
of Carcieri v. Salazar, removing the precursor of ``being under 
Federal jurisdiction'' when the IRA became law on June 18, 
1934.
    The second bill on the docket is H.R. 6180, introduced by 
Congressman Carl, which would treat the Poarch Band of Creek 
Indians as covered by the IRA, and reaffirm any lands 
previously taken into trust for their benefit by the Secretary.
    The Poarch Band of Creek Indians currently reside roughly 
56 miles north of Mobile, Alabama. A segment of the original 
Creek Nation, the Poarch Band received Federal recognition in 
August 1984 through the BIA's administrative process. After 
recognition, the Secretary placed land into trust for the 
benefit of the Poarch Band under the IRA. This was, of course, 
prior to the Carcieri v. Salazar decision, which has left the 
Poarch Band in limbo as a tribe recognized after 1934 with land 
in trust status.
    The Poarch Band has overcome time-consuming and costly 
litigation. In 2016, the U.S. 11th Circuit Court of Appeals 
ruled that the Tribe's reservation was protected under the IRA. 
However, this decision does not protect the Poarch Band from 
further litigation on any future parcels of land taken into 
trust by the Secretary for their benefit.
    As this Subcommittee has seen, the ability to have land 
placed into trust is a top priority for many tribes and garners 
wide support across the board. Yet, there are impacts to local 
towns, cities, counties, and states that should be weighed by 
the Department of the Interior when placing land into trust.
    When the Secretary places land into trust, it is removed 
from local control and falls under Federal and tribal control. 
This change often has implications for taxation, zoning, and 
other local or state laws regarding property. As seen with the 
Poarch Band, these implications can lead to litigation, which 
is often time-consuming and costly for all of the parties 
involved.
    I am hopeful that conversations such as the one we will 
have today will be a catalyst for a long-term solution across 
the board. I want to take the time to thank our witnesses for 
being here today, and I look forward to a robust conversation.
    The Chair now recognizes the Ranking Minority Member for 
her statement.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, A REPRESENTATIVE 
            IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO

    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank 
you for holding this hearing. And you can see the interest. We 
have standing room only. And it is because it is such an 
important issue.
    On December 2, 2021, I went to the Floor with this very 
same bill as Chair of the Subcommittee on Indigenous Peoples. 
And it was important to raise then, as it has been important to 
raise every time we re-introduce this bill since that fateful 
Supreme Court decision. That bill passed overwhelmingly, and I 
look forward to us moving this bill, as well, through this 
Congress, because it is such a bipartisan effort to address 
this 2009 Supreme Court ruling in Carcieri.
    In Carcieri, as we have heard, the Supreme Court decided, 
the end of the IRA, the Secretary could take land into trust 
only for those tribes that were under Federal jurisdiction in 
1934. That decision was harmful. It was disrespectful to 
tribes. It essentially said that if you are not federally 
recognized, it didn't matter how long you existed, but if we 
hadn't done our homework and made all the mistakes that we made 
over the years, then you didn't get to re-establish your 
homelands.
    The ability to take land into trust is essential for tribes 
to provide housing, economic development opportunities, 
governmental services, and to protect tribal lands and cultural 
resources.
    The Carcieri ruling upended 75 years of Federal Indian 
policy and administrative practices. It created uncertainty. 
Because of Carcieri, tribes have had to defend themselves in 
court, as we have just heard the Poarch Creek Band has had to 
do. DOI has to provide time-consuming and often unnecessary 
reviews of a tribe's jurisdictional status, and these are 
exactly the kinds of unnecessary and costly steps we should 
address, and that is what H.R. 1208 does.
    I want to thank both Representatives Cole and McCollum for 
their leadership on H.R. 1208 and for their years of leadership 
on this. I am an original co-sponsor of the bill. Their 
bipartisan work to correct the misguided Carcieri ruling 
demonstrates how Democrats and Republicans can work together on 
this Subcommittee for Indian Country.
    Mr. Cole's bill would simply restore the Secretary of the 
Interior's authority to take land into trust for all tribes, 
regardless of their date of Federal recognition.
    Let's be clear. H.R. 1208 is separate from Indian gaming 
law, and does not alter the process for placing land into trust 
for gaming. It does not take away state and local governments' 
input under existing Department of the Interior's land-into-
trust policies. H.R. 1208 just makes sure there is parity and 
equality for all tribes so they can fully realize the benefits 
of sovereignty, including through acquisition of trust land. 
That means we would not have to enact individual bills to 
return land that the U.S. Government systemically removed from 
tribes, bills like Representative Carl's H.R. 6180, which 
reaffirms the trust status of the lands of the Poarch Band of 
Creek Indians in Alabama, Poarch Band of Creek Indians. I 
apologize for the inversion earlier.
    I believe that we need a clean Carcieri fix. In the 117th 
Congress, we had a hearing like this. We passed it out of the 
Floor, 302 to 127, just like we did in the 116th Congress. 
Congress has introduced legislation for Carcieri in every 
Congress since 2009. And I want to thank once again the 
Chairwoman and the Chair for allowing this hearing to go 
forward so that we can continue that tradition and finally get 
it over the finish line.
    H.R. 1208 isn't a quick fix, as some have said. Tribes, 
Congress, and the Department of the Interior have worked on it 
for over a decade. It is past time to do the right thing for 
Indian Country. It is our role in Congress to pass legislation 
to uphold our treaty obligations and trust responsibility to 
tribes. That is how we promote tribal self-determination and 
self-governance.
    Chairwoman Bryan, I truly appreciated your written 
testimony, where you said we receive blessings and blessings we 
give back. And I think that is so essential to how we look at 
what we are doing here today. I hope we can put politics aside 
and move this bill through the Committee swiftly and to the 
Floor so we do not need individual bills.
    With that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Chairman 
Westerman for an opening statement.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRUCE WESTERMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
              CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS

    Mr. Westerman. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the 
witnesses for being here today.
    And as the Subcommittee Chair and the Ranking Member 
stated, we are here to look at two different bills, really two 
different approaches that would amend the Indian Reorganization 
Act to address the 2009 Supreme Court decision Carcieri v. 
Salazar. And there is tremendous interest in this, and I think 
it is appropriate that we have a hearing.
    And if you look at the way this hearing is structured, 
there are two pathways: one bill that would do a broad Carcieri 
fix, and another bill that would do kind of a more singled-out 
approach. And going forward, one way would kind of relieve 
Congress from having to deal with it in the future; the other 
way would be individual fixes going forward. So, I think it is 
good that we have this hearing to bring out differences in the 
way to address Carcieri, to hear the concerns, and to figure 
out what is best for our country going forward and for all the 
tribes involved.
    H.R. 1208, sponsored by Representative Cole, would amend 
the Indian Reorganization Act to clarify that the Secretary of 
the Interior has discretionary authority to place land into 
trust for any federally recognized tribe. Currently, a tribe 
must be determined to have been under Federal jurisdiction on 
June 18, 1934 for the Secretary to take land into trust through 
the agency's administrative process.
    H.R. 6180, sponsored by Representative Carl, would also 
amend the Indian Reorganization Act to confirm the Secretary's 
discretionary authority to place land into trust for the Poarch 
Band of Creek Indians, both for land already in trust and 
future parcels that the Tribe could request the Secretary to 
take into trust.
    Tribes place land into trust for many purposes, including 
for tribal housing, economic development projects, and cultural 
and ecological conservation. The trust status gives tribes 
confidence that lands will not be transferred without Federal 
action. This means tribal homelands that anchor tribal 
histories and stories remain a part of their future, as well as 
their past.
    This Committee has worked to pass various land-into-trust 
legislation on a consistent, bipartisan basis, recognizing that 
tribes know what benefits their tribal members best. However, 
tribal trust land can have implications for local and state 
taxation, zoning, and other laws regarding property. Broad 
consensus between tribal, state, and local stakeholders on 
those issues and on those actions are crucial. It not only 
preserves support for placing land into trust, but also 
benefits any further development or use of the land.
    We have seen many examples of local communities benefiting 
from tribal development of trust lands, diversifying economies 
and often providing jobs. We have also seen instances where 
tribes and local stakeholders are not on the same page, 
resulting in costly and lengthy litigation. While consensus 
cannot always be reached, it is vitally important that we 
attempt to find the best way forward for everyone. This 
includes hearing from multiple perspectives on this issue and 
how all stakeholders would be affected if either of these bills 
became law.
    Congress has both plenary power over Federal Indian policy, 
as well as the innate authority to define how we delegate power 
to administrative agencies. Ultimately, Congress can change 
policies and procedures if we think it is in the nation's best 
interest.
    Again, I want to thank the witnesses for being here to 
provide your expertise and testimony on these bills and on this 
important topic.
    I yield back.

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Chairman Westerman.
    The votes have just been called. I am going to go ahead and 
introduce our witnesses, and then we will adjourn for a short 
period of time to allow us to go vote, and then we will come 
back and continue with the hearing. I am sorry for the 
disruption, but we have two different vote series today, so we 
have to have one of them this morning.
    Very quickly, I now want to introduce the witnesses for our 
panel.
    Ms. Kathryn Isom-Clause, the Deputy Assistant Secretary for 
Indian Affairs, U.S. Department of the Interior in Washington, 
DC; the Honorable Marshall Pierite, Chairman, Tunica-Biloxi 
Tribe of Louisiana, Marksville, Louisiana; and the Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Carl for 1 minute to introduce the witness from 
his district.
    Mr. Carl. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. It is going to be a 
confusing day, I can tell already.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Carl. I am so pleased to introduce Chairwoman Bryan.
    It is truly an honor to have you here today. I haven't had 
a chance to speak to you yet. Hopefully, you will hang around a 
little while.
    Your leadership both on the Tribal Council and as a Tribe 
CEO demonstrates your dedication to improving the lives of the 
tribal citizens and their families. Your efforts benefit not 
only your community, but also contribute significantly to the 
well-being and the prosperity of the state of Alabama. And we 
appreciate that, we truly do.
    We have worked on so many things together, I feel like we 
are brother and sister.
    Your leadership ensures that the voices of Indian Country 
are heard, and that necessary means are taken to safeguard 
Native-owned lands and uphold tribal rights. Your presence here 
to support this important bill highlights the Tribe's 
commitment to economic growth and prosperity for both the 
Poarch Nation and for all the Nations.
    Thank you for the Tribe's tireless effort and dedication to 
make a positive impact on our state economy and lives of the 
residents.
    I think that is it. Thank you for being here.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Carl.
    Our final witness of the day is the Honorable David 
Rabbitt, District 2 Supervisor, Sonoma County Board of 
Supervisors, Sonoma, California.
    We are going to go ahead and take our recess now, and when 
we come back we will have Mr. Carl introduce his bill, and then 
we will go directly to the witness statements. Thank you.
    The Committee is in recess until we finish our voting, 
which will probably be in a half an hour, I believe. Thank you.
    [Recess.]
    Ms. Hageman. The hearing of the Subcommittee on Indian and 
Insular Affairs will come back into session, and the Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Carl from Alabama for 5 minutes to speak on his 
legislation.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JERRY CARL, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF ALABAMA

    Mr. Carl. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    My bill is pretty simple. The Poarch Band of Creek Indians 
Land Act is a bipartisan, bicameral effort aimed to supporting 
the Poarch Creek Band of Creek Indians, allowing them to 
exercise their sovereignty for the benefit of future 
generations.
    This Act is not just about legitimizing, it is about 
enabling the Tribe to provide essential government services 
effective to the citizens. By clarifying and reaffirming the 
Tribe's rights under the Indian Reorganization Act, IRA, this 
bill will provide stability and a clear path forward for their 
community development.
    The Tribe, a federally recognized entity based in Atmore, 
Alabama, with over 2,700 citizens, has limited trust lands, 
hindering the communities growth. This legislation ensures that 
the IRA applies to the Tribe, enhances their ability to improve 
essential government services, and treating them on par with 
other federally recognized tribes.
    This bill is not only about supporting the Tribe, but it is 
also about the potential to boost Alabama economy by generating 
new revenue and creating thousands of jobs. The Poarch Band 
Creek Indian Land Act aims at reaffirming the Tribe's long-
standing trust land and brings parties under the IRA.
    Since 2009, the Tribe has faced constant litigation over 
the trust land, stalled critical developments in housing, 
health care, and essential services. This legislation will 
ensure that the Tribe is treated equal and with other federally 
recognized tribes, allowing them to better provide for their 
community.
    The widespread support for this bill at both the local and 
Federal level underscores its importance. Local governments, 
including Elmore County Commission, Escambia County Commission, 
Montgomery County Commission, and others have rallied behind 
this bill, highlighting the collaboration and spirit that has 
unified backing, driving it forwards. This month the Senate 
received a hearing on this revision of this bill, sponsored by 
Senator Katie Britt, which was a positive response, further 
demonstrating the bill's broad appeal and significance.
    With that, Madam Chair, I return my time.

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Carl. We will now turn towards 
witness testimony.
    Let me remind the witnesses that under Committee Rules, 
they must limit their oral statements to 5 minutes. But your 
entire statements will appear in the hearing record.
    To begin your testimony, please press the ``talk'' button 
on the microphone.
    And we use timing lights. When you begin, the light will 
turn green. When you have 1 minute left, the light will turn 
yellow. And at the end of 5 minutes, the light will turn red, 
and I will ask you to please complete your statement.
    I will allow all witnesses on the panel to testify before 
Member questioning.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Kathryn Isom-Clause for 5 
minutes.

 STATEMENT OF KATHRYN ISOM-CLAUSE, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY 
     FOR INDIAN AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, 
                         WASHINGTON, DC

    Ms. Isom-Clause. Thank you. Good morning Chair Hageman, 
Ranking Member Leger Fernandez, and members of the 
Subcommittee. My name is Kathryn Isom-Clause, and I am Taos 
Pueblo. I serve as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Policy 
and Economic Development at Indian Affairs at the Department of 
the Interior. Thank you for the opportunity to present 
testimony on two bills before the Subcommittee today.
    Restoring tribal homelands is one of the Administration's 
highest priorities. This Administration has repeatedly stressed 
the importance of and need for a Carcieri fix. Since the Fiscal 
Year 2022 budget request, the President has proposed a sensible 
fix to treat all tribes equally in exercising the fundamental 
responsibility of placing land into trust for tribes.
    The Carcieri v. Salazar decision upset the settled 
expectations of both the Department and Indian Country, and led 
to confusion about the scope of the Secretary's authority to 
acquire land in trust for all federally recognized tribes. As 
many tribal leaders have noted, the Carcieri decision is 
contrary to existing congressional policy and subjects 
federally recognized tribes to unequal treatment under Federal 
law.
    Since the Carcieri decision, the Department must examine 
whether each tribe seeking to have land acquired in trust under 
the Indian Reorganization Act, or IRA, was under Federal 
jurisdiction in 1934. This analysis is done on a tribe-by-tribe 
basis, even for those tribes whose jurisdictional status is 
unquestioned. This analysis is time-consuming and costly for 
tribes and the Department. The Carcieri decision makes it 
likely that the Department will face costly and complex 
litigation over whether applicant tribes were under Federal 
jurisdiction in 1934. Overall, it has made the Department's 
consideration of fee-to-trust applications more complex, and 
created additional burdens.
    H.R. 6180 would address the impacts that the Carcieri 
decision has had on the Poarch Band of Creek Indians by 
ensuring that the Tribe has the ability to restore and protect 
their tribal homelands under the IRA.
    H.R. 1208 would be a universal legislative solution to the 
Carcieri decision for all tribes. The language is identical to 
the proposal contained in the President's budget request for 
several years. This language would clarify Congress' intention 
in enacting the IRA: the acquisition of land into trust for all 
tribes.
    The Department supports H.R. 6180 and H.R. 1208. Tribal 
homelands are at the heart of tribal sovereignty, self-
determination, and self-governance. The ability to restore and 
protect tribal homelands is an important part of our trust 
responsibility, and has been the policy of the United States 
for nearly a full century.
    The Department urges Congress to enact a legislative fix to 
the Carcieri decision for all tribes to eliminate the need for 
each tribe to seek separate legislation.
    Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Leger Fernandez, and members 
of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide 
the Department's views on these important bills, and I look 
forward to answering any questions you may have.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Isom-Clause follows:]
 Prepared Statement of Kathryn Isom-Clause, Deputy Assistant Secretary
        for Policy and Economic Development for Indian Affairs,
                United States Department of the Interior
                       on H.R. 1208 and H.R. 6180

    Good morning, Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Leger Fernandez, and 
members of the Subcommittee. My name is Kathryn Isom-Clause, and I am 
Taos Pueblo and the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Policy and Economic 
Development for Indian Affairs at the Department of the Interior 
(Department). Thank you for the opportunity to present testimony on 
H.R. 1208, ``To amend the Act of June 18, 1934, to reaffirm the 
authority of the Secretary of the Interior to take land into trust for 
Indian Tribes, and for other purposes,'' and H.R. 6180, ``To reaffirm 
the applicability of the Indian Reorganization Act to the Poarch Band 
of Creek Indians, and for other purposes.''
    Restoring Tribal homelands is one of this Administration's highest 
priorities. This Administration has repeatedly stressed the importance 
of and need for a Carcieri fix. Since the FY 2022 Budget Request, the 
President has proposed a sensible fix to treat all Tribes equally in 
exercising the fundamental responsibility of placing land into trust 
for Tribes.

    In Carcieri v. Salazar, the U.S. Supreme Court was faced with the 
question of whether the Department could acquire land in trust under 
section 5 of the Indian Reorganization Act (IRA) on behalf of the 
Narragansett Tribe of Rhode Island for a housing project. The Court's 
majority noted that section 5 permits the Secretary to acquire land in 
trust for federally recognized Tribes that were ``under Federal 
jurisdiction'' in 1934. It then determined that the Secretary was 
precluded from taking land into trust for the Narragansett Tribe, who 
had stipulated that it was not ``under Federal jurisdiction'' in 1934.

    The Carcieri decision upset the settled expectations of both the 
Department and Indian Country and led to confusion about the scope of 
the Secretary's authority to acquire land in trust for all federally 
recognized Tribes--including those Tribes that were federally 
recognized or restored after the enactment of the Indian Reorganization 
Act. As many Tribal leaders have noted, the Carcieri decision is 
contrary to existing congressional policy, and has the potential to 
subject federally recognized Tribes to unequal treatment under Federal 
law.

    Since the Carcieri decision, the Department must examine whether 
each Tribe seeking to have land acquired in trust under the Indian 
Reorganization Act was ``under Federal jurisdiction'' in 1934. This 
analysis is done on a Tribe-by-Tribe basis, even for those Tribes whose 
jurisdictional status is unquestioned. This analysis may be time-
consuming and costly for Tribes and for the Department. Although the 
Department conducts extensive research into this analysis, if the 
Department decides to take land into trust and provides notice of its 
intent, the Carcieri decision makes it likely that the Department will 
face costly and complex litigation over whether applicant Tribes were 
under Federal jurisdiction in 1934. Overall, it has made the 
Department's consideration of fee-to-trust applications more complex 
and created an additional administrative burden for the Federal 
government and Tribes related to decisions taking land into trust.

    H.R. 6180 would address the impact that the Carcieri decision has 
had on the Poarch Band of Creek Indians by deeming that the Band shall 
be considered as having been under Federal jurisdiction as of June 18, 
1934, for the purposes of the IRA. The bill would also congressionally 
reaffirm previous decisions by the Secretary to take land into trust 
for the Poarch Band of Creek Indians under IRA authorities.

    H.R. 1208 would be a universal legislative solution to the Carcieri 
decision for all Tribes. The language is identical to the proposal 
contained in the President's Budget Request for fiscal year 2025. This 
language would clarify Congress's intention in enacting the IRA--the 
acquisition of land into trust for Tribes to secure a land base on 
which to live and, through self-determination, to develop in their best 
interest.

    The Department supports H.R. 6180 and H.R. 1208. Tribal homelands 
are at the heart of Tribal sovereignty, self-determination, and self-
governance. The power to acquire lands in trust is an important tool 
for the United States to effectuate its long-standing policy of 
fostering Tribal self-determination. Congress has worked to foster 
self-determination for all Tribes and did not intend to limit this 
essential tool to only one class of Tribes. The Department has 
consistently expressed strong support for a universal legislative 
solution to the Carcieri decision for all Tribes. The President's 
budgets for fiscal years 2022 through 2025 have proposed a simple and 
clean fix to the IRA to ensure the Secretary has the authority to take 
land into trust for all Tribes without the need for a complex review of 
whether a Tribe was ``under Federal jurisdiction'' in 1934. The 
Department urges Congress to enact a legislative fix to the Carcieri 
decision for all Tribes to eliminate the need for each Tribe to seek 
separate legislation.

Conclusion

    Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Leger Fernandez, and members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide the Department's 
views on these important bills. I look forward to answering any 
questions that you may have.

                                 ______
                                 
 Questions Submitted for the Record to Ms. Kathryn Isom-Clause, Deputy 
        Assistant Secretary for Policy and Economic Development
          for Indian Affairs, U.S. Department of the Interior

Ms. Isom-Clause did not submit responses to the Committee by the 
appropriate deadline for inclusion in the printed record.

            Questions Submitted by Representative Westerman

    Question 1. Has the Department of the Interior denied a land into 
trust application in the past 5 years?

    1a) If so, which tribe(s) were denied?

    1b) If so, for what reason?

    Question 2. Has the Department not issued a positive Carcieri 
determination in response to any fee to trust application or any other 
requests submitted by a tribe?

    2a) If so, for which tribe(s)?

    2b) Has the Secretary ever waived the 25 CFR Part 151 regulations 
pursuant to 25 CFR 1.2?

    2c) If so, for which tribe(s) and when has the Secretary waived the 
25 CFR Part 151 regulations for a fee to trust application?

    Question 3. Has the Department been able to act more quickly on 
land-into-trust applications since the Department finalized 25 CFR Part 
151 regulations in December 2023?

    3a) If yes, please provide the average number of days it takes the 
Department to review land-to-trust applications pre- and post-
rulemaking.

    3b) Additionally, please provide the longest length of time it took 
for a single application to go through the process pre- and post-
rulemaking.

    Question 4. Prior to the Department finalizing the new 25 CFR Part 
151 regulations, several tribes requested a requirement that the 
Department consult with nearby tribes when an applicant tribe is 
seeking the acquisition of trust lands in another tribe's ancestral 
territory. This request was not implemented.

    4a) Considering the importance this Administration has placed on 
consultation with tribes, why did the Department not include this level 
of consultation?

    Question 5. The new 25 CFR Part 151.11 in the regulations governing 
trust acquisitions located outside and non-contiguous to an existing 
reservation eliminates the previous requirement that the Secretary 
increase scrutiny of a trust application as the distance from a tribe's 
reservation increases. The reasoning for the elimination explained in 
the preamble of the regulations was that the Department no longer 
needed to give greater weight to the concerns of State and local 
governments now that the Department is going to presume that any land 
acquisition benefits an applicant tribe.

    5a) Can you explain whether any tribes specifically asked for the 
Department to eliminate this increased or heightened scrutiny for 
applications as the distance from an existing reservation increases?

    5b) If so, can you tell which tribe(s) asked for this requirement 
to be eliminated?

    Question 6. The new 25 CFR Part 151 regulations governing trust 
acquisitions located outside and non-contiguous to an existing 
reservation do not require that the applicant tribe show any ancestral 
ties to the proposed trust land.

    6a) Can you confirm that the new regulations do not require an 
applicant tribe have any ancestral ties to the proposed trust land?

    6b) Why does the Department believe that tribes should be able to 
acquire trust lands that are outside of their ancestral territories?

    6c) Can you also confirm whether the new regulations allow a tribe 
to acquire lands outside of the state boundaries in which the tribe is 
currently located?

    If this is allowed, why does the Department believe that a tribe 
located in one state should be able to acquire trust lands in another 
state?

    Question 7. Some tribes have reached contacted the committee 
expressing concern that the new 25 CFR Part 151 regulations fail to 
include a requirement that the Department consult with nearby tribes 
when an applicant tribe is seeking to acquire trust lands in another 
tribe's ancestral territory. The preamble to the new regulations 
acknowledges that several tribes made this request to include a 
consultation requirement with potentially impacted tribes, but the 
preamble does not give a clear reason as to why the Department failed 
to include this consultation requirement requested by several tribes.

    7a) Given that this Administration seems to constantly talk about 
how it consults with tribes more than any other Administration, why did 
the Department not include a consultation requirement with nearby 
tribes who may be impacted by another tribe's application to acquire 
trust lands?

    7b) Under these new regulations, would tribes in Oklahoma be able 
to obtain trust lands in states like North Carolina, South Carolina, 
Georgia and Florida, where some of those tribes were originally 
removed?

    7c) If so, would the Department be required to notify and consult 
with federally recognized tribes in those states?

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you very much. I am going to go a little 
bit out of order, and I am going to recognize Mr. Cole from 
Oklahoma for 5 minutes to speak on his legislation.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. TOM COLE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

    Mr. Cole. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman and Ranking 
Member Leger Fernandez. It is a great pleasure for me to be 
back in this hearing room, where I spent a lot of years earlier 
in my career. I want to thank the Subcommittee for all its hard 
work on behalf of Indian Country, and particularly today for 
holding this hearing on my legislation, H.R. 1208, which would 
amend the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 and affirm the 
authority of the Secretary of the Interior to take land into 
trust for Indian tribes.
    As many of you know, I have been a champion on this issue 
for the past 15 years, since the Supreme Court's 2009 Carcieri 
v. Salazar decision. As an enrolled member of the Chickasaw 
Nation of Oklahoma, I cannot overstate the importance of tribal 
sovereignty and the relationships that members of tribes have 
with their land, their identity, and their culture.
    Unfortunately, many were forcibly removed to unknown areas 
after the Indian Removal Act, which often resulted in residing 
in lands that provided no opportunity to prosper. However, 
Trust Land does offer tribes the ability to expand economic 
development and provide for their people.
    Tribes use land in trust to build schools, housing, and 
health centers in their communities. In fact, in some rural 
areas, Tribal Nations are often the largest employers and 
health service providers in the community. That is certainly 
true in vast stretches of my district. Tribes also rely on 
their trust land to produce both renewable and conventional 
energy, as well as use the land for agriculture and production 
of various types. In addition, trust land allows tribes to 
provide essential government services like tribal police and 
courts.
    However, in 2009 the Supreme Court uprooted 70 years of 
precedent, and turned the entire notion of tribal sovereignty 
on its head when it ruled that the Indian Reorganization Act 
questioned the authority for the Secretary of the Interior to 
take land into trust because the Court interpreted the statute 
as only applying to the tribes under Federal recognition when 
the law was enacted in 1934.
    This decision created two different classes of Indian 
tribes: those that can have land into trust and those who 
cannot. This two-class system is detrimental to so many Native 
communities, as it excludes so many of them from exercising 
their legal right to act as a sovereign nation and deal 
directly with the United States on a government-to-government 
basis.
    This decision by the Court makes it harder for tribes to 
manage and expand their territory, as well as putting millions 
of dollars' worth of trust land in legal limbo. This is simply 
unacceptable.
    Congress is long overdue to correct the law as the Supreme 
Court interpreted it when the Court made the Carcieri decision. 
Without a legislative fix, tribes' financial resources will be 
drained and spent on litigation and disputes between tribes and 
state and local governments.
    However, those arguing against the legislative fix claim 
that this is all about gaming. Let me be clear: this is false. 
In fact, out of the 961 total pending fee-to-trust 
applications, only 26 are gaming applications; and out of the 
4,349 approved applications from 2009 to 2023, only 48 of them 
were for gaming purposes. That is 1.1 percent.
    Others claim that trust land is undermining states' tax 
base. Again, this is false. Trust land is like all other 
Federal pieces of land, like military bases or national parks 
that are not subject to state taxation. Impact aid and Payments 
in Lieu of Taxes address these shortfalls. In reality, trust 
land is only 8.75 percent of the total Federal land base.
    At the end of the day, there is no reason to oppose the 
Carcieri fix legislation. In fact, Chairman Westerman and 
Chairwoman Hageman, if Congress fails to act, the standard set 
forth in Carcieri v. Salazar will continue to undermine tribal 
sovereignty and devastate economic development in Native and 
non-Native communities. Resolving any ambiguity in the tribe's 
ability to put land into trust, no matter when they were 
federally recognized, is vital to protecting tribal interests 
and avoiding costly and protracted litigation.
    I truly believe this legislation, as well as H.R. 6180, 
introduced with my good friend from Alabama and fellow 
appropriator, Mr. Carl, are vital to preserving many Native 
American communities, and I appreciate the opportunity to 
testify in favor of both these bills.
    Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Chairman Cole, thank you for being here today, 
and we appreciate your input and your insight into these 
important issues.
    The Chair will now recognize the Honorable Marshall Pierite 
for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. MARSHALL PIERITE, CHAIRMAN, TUNICA-BILOXI 
           TRIBE OF LOUISIANA, MARKSVILLE, LOUISIANA

    Mr. Pierite. Thank you, everyone. Good morning, Chair 
Hageman, Ranking Member Leger Fernandez, and members of the 
Subcommittee. Thank you for the privilege and honor for me to 
testify today in support of H.R. 1208. I am Marshall Pierite, 
Chairman of the Tunica-Biloxi Tribe of Louisiana.
    The Supreme Court's ruling in Carcieri v. Salazar casts 
doubt on the sovereign control of tribal lands, and slowed the 
Federal Government's ability to place land into trust for the 
benefit of tribal governments. This not only harms the ability 
of tribes to provide for the welfare of their tribal citizens, 
but it also limits the ability of tribes to bring the benefits 
of their economic development activities to their non-tribal 
neighbors. Until Congress amends the Indian Reorganization Act 
in such a way as to correct the problems created by the 
Carcieri decision, the successes and benefits brought on by 
strong tribal governments will continue to be significantly 
diminished.
    After a long history of injustice, the Tunica-Biloxi Tribe 
and hundreds of other tribes across the country are utilizing 
their own resources to purchase land that has been stolen from 
them. But we don't seek to continue the cycle of mistrust, 
envy, and hard feelings. Instead, we have forged new, positive 
relationships with the local non-tribal communities that have 
grown up around us.
    The Tunica-Biloxi Tribe has created several economic 
development enterprises on our trust land. Because we do not 
have a tax base to supply the revenue necessary to provide 
governmental services to our people, we operate these 
businesses to generate revenue for our tribal government. Using 
this revenue, we protect and enhance the welfare and culture of 
our tribal citizens and their families. These tribal businesses 
also provide major benefits for our non-tribal neighbors, and 
revenues for our state and local governments in the region.
    Our modest tribal enterprises purchased over $10 million 
per year from local, non-tribal vendors, and supply wages in 
excess of $26 million per year to our mostly non-tribal 
employees. This payroll generates state and Federal employment 
taxes and increases the local sales and property tax base.
    In addition, we have donated over $7 million to local 
charities, and have contributed over $30 million to help the 
local parish government cover the costs associated with the 
additional demands placed on the community from the increased 
economic activity.
    When the Tribe began looking at gaming as a means for 
economic advancement in the early 1990s, unemployment rates in 
Avoyelles Parish were as high as 17 percent, almost twice the 
national average at the time. Overnight, we went from a 
surviving community to a thriving community. After our gaming 
facility opened in 1994, the unemployment rate in Avoyelles 
Parish has dropped to about the national average. Home prices 
increased, new roads were paved, schools improved, parish 
government services expanded, and hundreds of new businesses 
sprung up in central Louisiana.
    We in Indian Country are working hard to diversify our 
economies away from gaming and finding new enterprises that can 
provide the revenues we need to support our communities. We 
hope to create new manufacturing facilities, enter the software 
and service industries, and build new, clean energy projects. 
However, we first must repurchase the land that was stolen from 
us in order to have a place to build these new economic 
development projects.
    After 30 years of operation of our gaming facility, our 
neighbors and state and local government partners have come to 
realize that our success is a big contributor to their success. 
For the record, I would like to submit letters and 
proclamations from the state of Louisiana and several local 
area governments recognizing the benefit of our economic 
development activities to their own success and prosperity.
    The Supreme Court decision in Carcieri was a major step 
backward in the walk towards justice, as well as healing. The 
ruling confused both tribal governments and non-Indians alike, 
slowed economic growth and job creation, and continued to spawn 
legal challenges to the recovery of our ancestral homelands for 
the good of the Tribe, for the good of Indian children and 
generations yet to come, and for the good of our non-Indian 
neighbors and the entire nation.
    Congress should act to pass H.R. 1208 to amend the Indian 
Reorganization Act to conform to this original intended 
purpose. Thank you for your time and consideration and 
attention to this matter. Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pierite follows:]
 Prepared Statement of Marshall Pierite, Chairman, Tunica-Biloxi Tribe 
                              of Louisiana
                              on H.R. 6180

    Chairman Hageman, Ranking Member Leger Fernandez, and distinguished 
members of this Subcommittee, thank you for the privilege and honor of 
inviting me to testify today. I am Marshall Pierite, Chairman of the 
Tunica-Biloxi Tribe of Louisiana.
    The U.S. Supreme Court's 2009 ruling in Carcieri v. Salazar has 
cast doubt on the sovereign control of tribal lands and slowed the 
federal government's ability to place land into trust for the benefit 
of tribal governments. This not only harms the ability of tribes to 
provide for the welfare of their citizens but it also hampers the 
ability of tribes to bring the benefits of their economic development 
activities to their non-Indian neighbors. Until Congress amends the 
Indian Reorganization Act in such a way as to correct the problems 
created by the Carcieri decision, the successes and benefits brought on 
by strong tribal governments will continue to be significantly 
diminished.
    Although the Senate failed to take up the measure, I was very 
pleased that the 117th Congress passed a ``Carcieri Fix'' bill authored 
by Rep McCollum and Rep. Cole by a vote of 302-127. I urge this 
Committee to move expeditiously to pass this bill and have the House of 
Representative send it once again to the Senate for their 
consideration.
    While I do not want to dwell on the sad history of injustice 
against tribes and Native Americans, it is important to recall this 
history to illuminate the justice and healing that tribal land 
reacquisition can engender. Every tribe has stories of loss, and every 
federally recognized tribe once held title to large amounts of land 
that has been stolen from them. Ours is merely one example.
    At the time of the Louisiana Purchase Treaty in 1803, the Tunica-
Biloxi Tribe held title to well over 50 square miles of land. By 1980, 
however, the tribe controlled less than 200 acres. These lands were 
stolen in hundreds of small ways, but one example stands out.
    In 1841, Tunica Chief Melacon confronted a local landowner whose 
work crew was working to systematically move his fence posts onto 
Tunica land. As the Chief protested and began removing the fence posts 
the landowner shot Chief Melacon in the head in view of several other 
tribal citizens and non-Indians. The common view held at the time by 
non-Indians was that Native Americans were savages who did not farm 
their land ``properly'' and therefore had no right to keep it. As a 
result, the killer was thought to be within his rights and never stood 
trial.
    Against this history of injustice, the Tunica-Biloxi Tribe and 
hundreds of other tribes across the country are utilizing their own 
resources to purchase land that has been stolen from them. But, we do 
not wish to continue the cycle of mistrust, envy and hard feelings. 
Instead, we have forged new positive relationships with the local non-
Indian communities that have grown up around us.
    Utilizing our status as a sovereign nation, the Tunica-Biloxi Tribe 
has created several economic development enterprises. Because we do not 
have a suitable tax base to supply the revenue necessary to provide 
governmental services to our people, we need these businesses to 
generate revenue for the tribal government so that we may protect and 
enhance the welfare and culture of our tribal citizens. These 
businesses also provide major benefits for our non-Indian neighbors and 
revenues for state and local governments in the region. For example, 
our tribal enterprises purchase over $10 million per year from local 
non-Indian vendors, and supply wages in excess of $26 million dollars 
per year to mostly non-Indian employees, resulting in state and federal 
employment taxes of over $2 million per year. In addition, we have 
donated over $7 million to local charities and have paid the local 
Parish government over $30 million to help cover the costs associated 
with the additional demands placed on the community from the increased 
economic activity.
    When the Tribe began looking at gaming as a means for economic 
advancement in the early 1990s, unemployment rates in Avoyelles Parish 
were as high as 17 percent--almost twice the national average at the 
time. Local governments struggled to provide even the most basic 
services, and it looked as if there was nothing on the horizon that 
might change the dismal forecast for the area.
    Today, I am proud to say that the Tunica-Biloxi Tribe employs over 
1,000 people--the vast majority of them non-Indian. After our gaming 
facility opened in 1994, the direct and indirect jobs created by the 
Tribe caused the unemployment rate in Avoyelles Parish to drop to about 
6 percent. Home prices increased, new roads were paved, schools 
improved, Parish government services expanded, and hundreds of new 
businesses sprung up in Central Louisiana. Of course, our tribal 
citizens who had previously suffered greatly from economic hardship 
were helped as well, but the full story is one of renewal for the 
entire region and all of our citizens and neighbors.
    30 years ago, prior to the opening of our gaming operation, the 
largest private employer in our area was a textile manufacturing 
facility. That facility, along with hundreds of others like it, closed 
when U.S. manufacturers found less expensive options overseas, leaving 
hundreds of people in Central Louisiana without work. The community was 
in great distress and there were no prospects on the horizon with 
potential to renew the local economy. Today, I am happy to say that the 
Tribe is working with local economic development organizations to 
reopen that facility to supply American-made textiles to tribal hotels 
and others who have a mandate to buy American-made goods. We will re-
create those lost jobs and use this facility to launch new businesses 
and innovations.
    My tribe, and hundreds of other tribal governments across the 
country, are working hard to diversify our economies away from gaming 
and find new enterprises that can provide the revenues we need to 
support our communities. We hope to create new manufacturing 
facilities, enter the software and services industries, and build new 
clean energy projects. However, we must first repurchase the land that 
was stolen from us in order to have a place to build these new economic 
development projects.
    Further, in order to take advantage of the benefits of our 
sovereignty, this land must be added back under the federal trust 
status from which it was originally removed. Often, purchasing the 
tribe's original land is not an option. In some cases, this is because 
the tribe was forced to move a long way from their traditional 
homelands. In other cases, the current owners are simply not willing to 
sell, or the land is no longer suitable for the intended purpose due to 
other development, environmental damage, or any number of other 
reasons. Regardless of the location of the repurchased land, the 
inability of tribes to swiftly have these lands placed into trust by 
the U.S. Department of the Interior has dramatically decreased the 
ability of tribal governments to create new jobs for our own tribal 
citizens and our neighbors. We realize that we cannot fully recreate 
what was lost. We can strive, however, to create a better world and 
better lives for our children.
    In light of the complicated and often brutal history of 
relationships between tribes and their neighbors, the level of acrimony 
we often hear from non-Indians who are opposed to tribal economic 
development projects is not entirely surprising. What I hope all of us 
will come to recognize, however, is that tribes and their neighbors are 
in this together. I am hopeful that the lessons we are learning today 
will yield a new spirit of cooperation, and that non-Indians who are 
fearful of tribal economic development will come to realize that what 
is good for our tribal communities is good for them as well.
    After 30 years of operation of our gaming facility in Central 
Louisiana, our neighbors and state and local governmental partners have 
come to realize that our success is a big contributor to their success. 
To demonstrate this support, I would like to submit for the record 
letters and proclamations from the State of Louisiana, and several 
local area governments who recognize the benefit of our economic 
development activities to their own success and prosperity.
    The Supreme Court decision in Carcieri v. Salazar was a major step 
backward in the process of justice and healing. The ruling confused 
both tribal governments and non-Indians alike, slowed economic growth 
and job creation, and continues to spawn legal impediments to the 
repatriation of Indian homelands. For the good of tribes, for the good 
of Indian children and generations yet to come, and for the good of our 
non-Indian neighbors and the nation as a whole, Congress should act to 
pass H.R. 1208 to amend the Indian Reorganization Act to conform to its 
original intended purpose.

                                 *****

The following documents were submitted as supplements to Mr. Pierite's 
testimony.

                       AVOYELLES PARISH POLICE JURY

                             Marksville, LA

    To: The House Natural Resources Subcommittee on Indigenous People:

    On behalf of the Avoyelles Parish Police Jury, I am writing to 
share the profound, positive impact that tribal economic development 
has on our community. As a life-long resident of Avoyelles, I have 
observed first-hand how the initiatives by the Tunica-Biloxi Tribe of 
Louisiana have significantly contributed to the economic, social, and 
cultural vitality of our region.

    Economic development projects led by the Tribe, such as the Paragon 
Casino Resort, have become pillars of our local economy. Not only did 
it generate substantial revenue, but also create employment 
opportunities for hundreds of community members. Currently, the Paragon 
Casino Resort employs over 700 individuals, offering stable, well-
paying jobs that support families and stimulate local economic 
activity. These jobs are crucial for many, providing a pathway to 
financial security and professional growth.

    The Tunica-Biloxi Tribe also exemplifies a strong commitment to 
social responsibility. Through generous monetary donations, the Tribe 
has significantly contributed to our critical infrastructure that 
benefits the entire parish.

    The Tribe's economic ventures serve as a driving force for broader 
regional development. The Paragon Casino Resort, for example, attracts 
visitors from across the state and beyond, boosting tourism and 
supporting local businesses. Hotels, restaurants, and retail 
establishments in the area benefit from the influx of visitors, 
creating a ripple effect that stimulates further economic growth and 
diversification.

    The long-term vision and strategic planning demonstrated by the 
Tunica-Biloxi Tribe will ensure that their economic development 
initiatives are sustainable and beneficial for future generations. 
Their approach not only addresses immediate needs but also lays the 
foundation for continued prosperity and community resilience.

    In summary, tribal economic development has a multifaceted and 
profoundly positive impact on our community. It drives economic growth, 
provides vital employment opportunities, supports public services, 
enriches our cultural landscape, and creates a spirit of collaboration 
and mutual benefit. The Tunica-Biloxi Tribe's dedication to economic 
and social progress serves as a model of how strategic development can 
uplift and transform a community.

    I am confident that the continued success of the Tribe's economic 
initiatives will lead to even greater benefits for our community, and I 
look forward to supporting and celebrating their efforts in the years 
to come.

            Best regards,

                                          Darrell G. Wiley,
                                                          President

                                 ______
                                 

                     MARKSVILLE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

                                                  June 11, 2024    

House Natural Resources Subcommittee on Indigenous Peoples
U.S. House of Representatives
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

    Dear Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee:

    As President of the Marksville Chamber of Commerce, I am writing to 
express our strong support for the Carcieri Fix bill (H.R. 1208). This 
legislation is crucial for the sustained economic development and 
growth of tribal communities, and it holds significant positive 
implications for our broader community in Marksville and the 
surrounding regions.

    Chairman Pierite's upcoming testimony on June 26th is a pivotal 
moment for highlighting the far-reaching benefits that tribal economic 
initiatives, such as our local casino, bring to our community. The 
economic contributions of the tribal enterprises extend beyond the 
boundaries of tribal lands, creating jobs, fostering local business 
growth, and enhancing the quality of life for residents.

    The Marksville Chamber of Commerce has witnessed firsthand the 
transformative impact of tribal economic development. The casino has 
become a cornerstone of our local economy, providing employment 
opportunities for hundreds of individuals, including many non-tribal 
members. These jobs offer stable incomes, benefits, and professional 
growth opportunities, which are vital for the economic stability of our 
community.

    Additionally, the casino and other tribal enterprises contribute 
significantly to the local tax base. These contributions support public 
services such as education, healthcare, and infrastructure 
improvements, benefiting all residents of our region. The presence of 
the casino has also spurred the growth of ancillary businesses, 
including hotels, restaurants, and retail establishments, further 
diversifying and strengthening our local economy.

    In conclusion, the Marksville Chamber of Commerce fully supports 
Chairman Pierite's testimony and the passage of H.R. 1208. We urge the 
Subcommittee and Congress to recognize the substantial and positive 
impact that tribal economic development has on our community and to 
support the Carcieri Fix bill.

    Thank you for your attention to this critical matter.

            Sincerely,

                                           Melissa Goudeau,
                                                          President

                                 ______
                                 
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                 ______

                        AVOYELLES PARISH SCHOOLS

                             Marksville, LA

                                                  June 13, 2024    

    To Whom It May Concern:

    I'm writing this letter in support of The Tunica-Biloxi Tribe of 
Louisiana. As a lifelong resident and active member of Avoyelles 
Parish, I have observed and benefited from the impact that the tribal 
economic development has on our community. They have significantly 
contributed to the economic, social, and cultural development of our 
region.

    Through the combination of both Tribal and Paragon Casino Resort, 
they have become the pillars of our local economy. This initiative 
generates a substantial amount of revenue and employment opportunities 
for hundreds of community members. Currently, the Paragon Casino Resort 
employs over 700 employees, offering stable, well-paying jobs that 
support families and stimulate the local economy.

    The Tunica-Biloxi Tribe also exemplifies a strong commitment to 
philanthropy and social responsibility. Beyond providing job 
opportunities, the Tribe and Paragon Casino have helped to fund many of 
our schools' activities such as providing a space for teachers to meet, 
offering recognition and prizes for teachers during Teachers' 
Appreciation Week, providing scholarships, funds for needed programs in 
the schools and assisting to purchase pieces of equipment for our 
athletic department. We are so grateful for all that the Tribe and 
Paragon Casino have supported the school system with.

    In summary, tribal economic development has a multifaceted and 
profoundly positive impact on our community. It drives economic growth, 
provides vital employment opportunities, and supports public services. 
I am confident that the continued success of the Tribe's economic 
initiatives will lead to even greater benefits for our community, and I 
look forward to supporting and celebrating their efforts in the years 
to come.

            Sincerely,

                                          Thelma J. Prater,
                                Assistant Superintendent of Schools

                                 ______
                                 

   Questions Submitted for the Record to the Hon. Marshall Pierite, 
            Chairman & CEO, Tunica-Biloxi Tribe of Louisiana

            Questions Submitted by Representative Westerman

    Question 1. Your written testimony discussed the complicated 
history tribal nations can have with their neighboring localities. You 
also mentioned how your tribe has received support from the state of 
Louisiana and several local governments recognizing the benefit of the 
economic development the tribe has brought to the area.

    1a) Can you expand on how your tribe was able to build and maintain 
these relationships?

    Answer. The Tunica-Biloxi Tribe has built strong working 
relationships with the state and local governments through many years 
of hard work to establish trust and an understanding of mutual respect. 
At every opportunity, we discuss and demonstrate how benefits to the 
Tribe result in benefits to our non-tribal neighbors. This has been a 
long journey which required tribal and non-tribal leaders to put aside 
the long history of injustice, forgive past wrongdoings and recognize 
the power of hope and healing.

    1b) How can Congress help to promote congenial relationships?

    Answer. Congress can do its part by protecting tribal governments 
from encroachment from state and local governments and recognizing the 
history of how tribes lost their land, while also extolling the virtues 
of tribal economic development for the benefits it brings to both 
tribal and non-tribal communities. The balance of power between tribes 
and their non-tribal neighbors has always been overwhelmingly skewed 
toward the non-tribal communities. Congress can provide the necessary 
backstop to appropriately balance these rights. Through this renewed 
justice, and the power of economic development, tribes can demonstrate 
mutual benefits which can then spawn a renewed and positive 
relationship. The good news is that we have seen this play out over the 
last 30+ years of tribal gaming. The old doubts and fears from the non-
tribal community have proven to be largely unfounded and the benefits 
of tribal landownership overwhelmingly positive for everyone. Passing 
H.R. 1208 would help in providing a pathway to these more positive 
relationships.

    Question 2. Are there lands your tribe is currently seeking to have 
taken into trust?

    Answer. Yes. The Tunica-Biloxi Tribe is continually working to 
regain the land that was illegally taken from us. We do so primarily by 
buying land from willing sellers and then working to have that land 
placed into trust by the federal government.

    2a) If so, how long has this process taken and have you seen any 
opposition to these applications?

    Answer. The timeline for the land to trust process has varied over 
the years for numerous reasons--mostly due to backlogs at the 
Department that occur when political decisions are made by various 
administrations to change the process, increase scrutiny, or reduce or 
delay funding for the offices within the department charged with 
advising the Secretary on specific land to trust determinations. We are 
pleased that the backlog has been considerably decreased and 
applications are now being processed in a more timely manner. At points 
in our recent history, it has taken many years in the process to gain 
trust approval. The Department's new regulations are certain to further 
streamline the process.

    Question 3. Is there anything else you would like to add to your 
testimony on how the Department of the Interior's fee-to-trust process 
could be reformed to benefit tribes and state and local governments?

    Answer. It is important to note that when a tribe seeks to have the 
federal government take land into trust, the tribal government might or 
might not have immediate plans for the use of that land. Moreover, in 
much the same way that local governments operate, elected tribal 
governments might change their land use plans over time. Therefore, it 
should be recognized that the request from Mr. Rabbitt in his testimony 
to the Subcommittee on this point is largely unworkable. While it might 
be possible for tribal and non-tribal area governments to agree on a 
path forward for immediate land use planning, such agreements might not 
survive local or tribal elections and resulting changes in governing 
decisions. Land use negotiations between tribes and non-tribal 
governments, therefore, should not be used as a gateway for the federal 
government to make land to trust decisions that last in perpetuity. It 
is also important to note that when land was stolen from tribes 
(sometimes at the end of a gun barrel) tribes were not offered the same 
level of comment options as the current DOI regulations provide to 
local governments. That said, once justice is restored through tribal 
land re-acquisition, local and tribal governments can and do work 
together for their and mutual benefit.

    Question 4. The new 25 CFR Part 151 regulations governing lands 
into trust provide no geographic boundaries within which tribes can 
acquire trust lands, fails to include any requirement that a tribe have 
ancestral ties to the proposed trust land, eliminates the previous 
requirement that the Secretary use heightened scrutiny the further a 
tribe goes from its existing reservation to seek new trust lands, and 
failed to include a consultation requirement with nearby tribes for any 
new trust land acquisitions.

    4a) Given this and that Louisiana has 4 federally recognized 
tribes, does the Tunica-Biloxi Tribe support the portions of the new 
regulations that eliminate the heightened scrutiny for applications 
that seek to acquire lands far from a tribe's existing reservation?

    Answer. It is important to note that the land that was illegally 
taken from tribes is, in most cases, no longer accessible by tribes to 
be taken back into possession nor to be taken into trust. Much of what 
can be considered ``tribal homelands'' is now developed and might only 
be available for purchase in very small parcels if at all. So, in order 
for tribes to reestablish a meaningful land base, they must often look 
to areas that might not align to what was lost, say, in the 1800s or 
earlier. Moreover, federal policy has, over the last 200 years, made a 
complete mess of tribal lands. Tribes have not only had their land 
stolen, but they have also been moved by force in groups, and their 
citizens have been incentivized under false pretense to move 
individually, often hundreds of miles away from their traditional 
homelands. The use of the term ``ancestral homelands'' is also 
problematic as it does not provide a specific time frame for ancestry. 
Given that many tribal citizens were forced or coerced to leave their 
homes, do these ``new'' areas where they currently reside constitute 
``ancestral homelands'' if they have now been there for 50 years, or 
100 years? What happens in another 50 years once these families have 
been in those locations for 150 years or more. When is an area 
considered ``ancestral?''

    4b) Would you want the Interior Secretary to be mandated to consult 
with you if any other tribe applies for trust lands within your 
ancestral territory in the State?

    Answer. Of course, the Department should and does take into account 
the concerns of other tribes and state and local governments--
especially when taking land into trust apart from an existing 
reservation. Tribes and local governments are provided an opportunity 
to raise concerns in the trust process. Moreover, as taking land into 
trust is a ``major federal action'' other laws apply including the 
National Historic Preservation Act which provides rights in the process 
for tribes to protect their sacred places on and off current 
reservation land.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you for your testimony. The Chair now 
recognizes the Honorable Stephanie Bryan for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. STEPHANIE BRYAN, TRIBAL CHAIR, POARCH 
                 CREEK INDIANS, ATMORE, ALABAMA

    Ms. Bryan. Good morning Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Leger 
Fernandez, Chairman Cole, and members of the Subcommittee. My 
name is Stephanie Bryan, and I am honored to serve as the Chair 
and CEO for the Poarch Band of Creek Indians located in lower 
Alabama.
    We appreciate this opportunity to testify, but most 
importantly we thank Congressman Jerry Carl for introducing 
this bill. We also thank the counties and cities that border 
our trust lands for their partnership and support.
    The Poarch Band of Creek Indians has been a leading 
advocate to clarify that the Indian Reorganization Act applies 
to all federally recognized tribes. We offer our full support 
of Chairman Cole's bill, H.R. 1208, which would accomplish this 
goal. We will continue to work to pass a national fix, but our 
Tribe is taking a parallel approach by working with our 
Congressional Delegation to clarify that the IRA applies to our 
Tribe.
    For decades, Poarch leaders have balanced the desire to 
preserve our Tribe's history and culture with the need to 
rebuild our community and provide basic services to our 
citizens. Today, we are blessed to be able to provide our 
tribal citizens and neighbors with essential services that 
include police, fire protection, health care, elder care, 
education, and infrastructure.
    We have made careful decisions about how best to use our 
resources and property, but we have limited trust lands, and we 
can't meet the growing needs for housing and other basic 
services for our citizens. For example, in 2018 it became clear 
that we needed to expand our Boys and Girls Club. There was no 
more buildable trust land, and we were forced to fill ponds 
around the community center on existing trust lands, which 
added $1 million to our construction cost.
    We are not alone. Tribal governments nationwide have a 
shortage of usable trust land, and seek to acquire trust lands 
to serve their citizens.
    The Supreme Court's 2009 Carcieri decision upended the 
Interior Department's land-into-trust process. That decision 
placed a cloud of uncertainty over tribal trust lands, impeding 
investment and economic development in Indian Country. These 
lawsuits have cost American taxpayers a significant amount of 
money.
    The Interior Department and DOJ have had to defend not only 
our trust lands, but also the lands of other tribes. The Tribe 
alone has spent more than $10 million to defend ourselves from 
legal challenges attacking the status of our trust lands. 
Thankfully, every court reviewing these frivolous cases against 
us has upheld the status of our lands, which the Interior 
Department placed in trust decades ago. However, these lawsuits 
have taken a real toll, and that is why our Tribe is seeking a 
legislative solution that will provide us with much-needed 
certainty.
    The bill affirms that the IRA applies to our Tribe, and 
brings us into parity with other federally recognized tribes. 
This bill has strong support from the Alabama Congressional 
Delegation and the cities and counties that surround us. I 
respectfully ask the Full Committee to mark up H.R. 6180, and 
please pass this bill this year.
    On behalf of our Tribe, I am honored to speak to you today, 
and I am happy to answer any questions you may have.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Bryan follows:]
     Prepared Statement of Stephanie Bryan, Chairwoman, Poarch Band
                            of Creek Indians
                              on H.R. 6180

    Good afternoon, Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Leger Fernandez, and 
Members of the Subcommittee. My name is Stephanie Bryan, and I am 
honored to serve as the Chair and CEO of the Poarch Band of Creek 
Indians. Thank you for this opportunity to testify today about H.R. 
6180, the Poarch Band of Creek Indians Lands Act. On behalf of the 
Tribal Council, I extend our great thanks to Rep. Carl for introducing 
this bill.
History of the Poarch Band of Creek Indians

    I want to begin by sharing some history about the Poarch Band of 
Creek Indians. ``The Poarch Band of Creeks of today originated in the 
aboriginal and historical Creek Nation.'' \1\ At the time of our 
Nation's founding, the Creek Confederacy governed an expansive 
territory. Creek lands--guaranteed in the Treaty of New York in 1790--
covered most of modern-day Georgia and Alabama, as well as parts of 
Florida. That territory was reduced twice via treaty over the ensuing 
two decades, and then again as a result of the War of 1812, when the 
Creek Confederacy was divided between those who joined with the British 
and those who remained friendly to the United States. After the war, 
however, the United States continued to recognize land rights of Creeks 
who had allied with it. In 1814, the United States granted those Creeks 
the right to occupy individual reservations in Southern Alabama under 
the Treaty of Fort Jackson.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Memorandum from Deputy Assistant Secretary--Indian Affairs 
(Operations), U.S. Dep't of Interior, to Assistant Secretary--Indian 
Affairs, on Recommendation and Summary of Evidence for Proposed Finding 
for Federal Acknowledgement of the Poarch Band of Creeks of Alabama 
pursuant to 25 C.F.R. Sec. 83, at 3 (Dec. 29, 1983).
    \2\ 7 Stat. 120 (Aug. 9, 1814).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Little time passed before the United States' policy toward the 
Creeks began to change. In 1817, Congress provided that fee simple 
patents to Creek reservation lands should be issued upon the death of 
the original reservation grantees. Moreover, in what came to be known 
as the Trail of Tears, the United States decided to pursue a policy of 
forced removal of the Creeks and other tribal nations in the South and 
Eastern United States. Thousands of Native children, women, and men 
died on these forced marches to the Indian Territory--which is now the 
state of Oklahoma. Our Tribe avoided this fate. Like other Indian 
nations located in the South and East today, we were able to do so only 
by fleeing into remote homelands.
    Specifically, our tribe found refuge and settled on the McGhee 
reserve, located now in the Community of Poarch, Alabama. A Creek 
leader, Lynn McGhee, had been granted a reserve pursuant to the 1814 
Treaty. Under the terms of the Treaty, McGhee and his descendants 
retained the right to the reserve as long as they occupied it and were 
to be ``protected by and subject to the laws of the United States.'' 
\3\ This land was ``technically individually owned.'' \4\ ``[I]n 
practice,'' however, ``[the McGhee lands] were usable by the entire 
community'' that ``settled there'' during the removal era.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Id.
    \4\ U.S. Dep't of Interior, Office of Federal Acknowledgment, 
Technical Reports regarding the Poarch Band of Creeks of Atmore, 
Alabama, at 28-29 (1983).
    \5\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Unlike other Creek reservations established in the wake of the War 
of 1812, the McGhee reserve was held in trust and never fee patented. 
As noted, in 1817 Congress passed a statute that generally removed 
Creek reservations from trust status. McGhee, however, had been unable 
to enter his claim for a reservation before the deadline set by the 
1814 Treaty of Fort Jackson because of a war injury. For this reason, 
Congress subsequently acted specifically on behalf of McGhee, granting 
him the right to select a reservation under the terms of the 1814 
Treaty after the deadline. In so doing, Congress opted not to subject 
the McGhee reserve to the 1817 Act.
    In the early 1900s, the Department of Justice confirmed the McGhee 
reserve's trust status. Specifically, in 1912, the federal government, 
acting in its role as trustee, sued a timber company for trespass on 
the McGhee reserve. This action was accompanied by a series of internal 
memoranda within the Department of Justice, which analyzed whether the 
land remained in trust and concluded that it did.\6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ Letter from Attorney General McReynolds to Senator Joseph 
Johnson, at 6-7 (Apr. 23, 1913).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Despite this confirmation of trust status, the Government Land 
Office improperly issued a fee patent to the McGhee heirs in 1924. 
However, because these fee grants were unlawful, they did not erode the 
protections owed to our Tribe. Later analysis by the Commissioner of 
Indian Affairs concluded that the descendants of McGhee ``who to this 
day occupy his reserve continue to be `protected by and subject to the 
laws of the United States.' '' \7\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ Memorandum from Morris Thompson, Commissioner of Indian 
Affairs, to Mr. Keep, Associate Solicitor, Indian Affairs on the 
Eligibility of the Poarch Creek Band Under the Indian Reorganization 
Act (Mar. 23, 1976).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In 1984, after years of living in obscurity and abject poverty, the 
Reagan Administration reaffirmed the status of the Poarch Band of Creek 
Indians as a federally recognized Tribe. The United States acknowledged 
that Poarch has been an autonomous, distinct tribal community for 
centuries, that we have maintained governing authority over our tribal 
citizens, and that our citizens descend from a historical Indian Tribe. 
We remain based on the McGhee reserve, which was never 
disestablished.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ History, Poarch Band of Creek Indians, https://pci-nsn.gov/our-
story/history/ (last visited June 7, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Our Tribe is also a successor to the pre-Removal Creek treaties and 
as such we have at all times since then enjoyed a treaty relationship 
with the United States. Our ancestors were part of the Creek Nation 
before the removal era. We were recognized by the United States as 
autonomous, and our ancestors signed the pre-removal Creek treaties as 
a subset of the Creek Confederacy.\9\ The Department of the Interior 
has accordingly recognized that we are a ``successor of the Creek 
Nation of Alabama prior to its removal.'' \10\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ Id.
    \10\ Final Determination for Federal Acknowledgment of the Poarch 
Band of Creeks, 49 Fed. Reg. 24083, 24083 (June 11, 1984).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Acknowledgement as a federally recognized Indian Tribe was a 
turning point for our government. In 1984, we began working with the 
Interior Department to establish a small land base for our community. 
Using authority provided in the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934, the 
Tribe worked with Interior to place approximately 389 acres of fee 
lands into trust from 1985 to 1995. The majority of these trust lands 
(229.5 acres) were approved by Interior on April 18, 1985.\11\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \11\ See Establishment of Poarch Band of Creek Indians Reservation 
(50 Fed. Reg. 15502 (April 18, 1985)), and Poarch Band of Creeks-
Establishment of Reservation: Correction (50 Fed. Reg. 19813 (May 10, 
1985)).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Over the past four decades, Poarch Creek leaders have balanced the 
preservation of our Tribe's history and culture with the need to 
rebuild our community. Today, we are blessed to be able to provide our 
tribal citizens and neighbors with essential services, including 
functioning infrastructure, police and fire protection, healthcare, and 
eldercare.
    The Tribe has developed positive working relationships with our 
neighboring counties of Elmore, Escambia, and Montgomery. We have 
engaged in dozens of MOUs and intergovernmental agreements with these 
and other local governments that have helped upgrade fire and rescue 
stations, conduct miles of road repairs and upgrades including lighting 
installations, provide resources to improve health care and education, 
and much more. We are also the first responders for 15 miles north and 
south of the Reservation on Interstate 65. These agreements and 
services far exceed revenue from any potential tax receipts these 
neighboring governments would receive if our lands remained in fee. As 
Alabama Natives and Alabama Neighbors, we are driven to give back to 
these communities by our belief that working together and giving back 
makes us all stronger, together. We are proud that our neighboring 
Counties, mayors, and state representatives have pledged their support 
for H.R. 6180, the Poarch Band of Creek Indians Parity Act. Attached to 
my written testimony is a letter of support from our neighboring local 
governments.
    We have been able to improve the economic condition of not only 
Poarch, Alabama, where we are headquartered, but also in other parts of 
the State. Our Tribe operates more than 40 companies that do work 
worldwide and generate 9,000 jobs. I am proud to say that we generate 
more than 4,000 jobs for families in Alabama. Beyond these enterprises, 
we also welcome people to visit our lands, especially the Magnolia 
Branch Wildlife Reserve, which welcomes 30,000 visitors annually. It is 
one of the prettiest places you can imagine to go fishing, tubing, 
horseback riding, and camping.
    We honor our blessings by giving back to local non-profits and 
community organizations. We donate nearly $8 million annually to local 
governments, educational institutions, health care systems, and other 
philanthropic causes. During the COVID-19 pandemic, we were able to 
give back to the State of Alabama with a $500,000 donation to the 
Alabama Department of Health for COVID-19 vaccine storage and 
administration. In fact, knowing how important protecting rural Alabama 
is to us, the State asked us to run clinics to vaccinate rural 
Alabamians.
    We have made careful decisions about how to best use our resources 
and property. However, we have a limited land base, and at this point, 
we are no longer able to meet the growing housing and many other needs 
of our nearly 2,900 citizens. For example, when it became clear we 
needed to expand our Boys and Girls club in 2018, we were forced to 
fill in the ponds around our community center at a cost of more than $1 
million because there was no more buildable trust land.
    As our population ages, the Tribal Council has prioritized 
providing the best healthcare and eldercare available. We have an 
Assisted Living Facility (ALF) but will soon need a nursing home. We do 
not have the current land available to provide this service, and the 
passage of H.R. 6180 will allow us to make this dream of a nursing home 
a reality. As our community grows, enhancing our governing land base is 
a not only a need, it is a must.
    We are not alone. Tribal governments nationwide have a shortage of 
usable land, and many--like us--have made land restoration a priority.
The Indian Reorganization Act: Restoration of the Tribal Government 
        Land Base

    Congress has repeatedly examined the history of tribal government 
land tenure, documenting impacts of the federal policies of Removal, 
Allotment and forced Assimilation, and Termination, all of which 
displaced many tribal governments, leaving some tribes completely 
landless. Former Senate Committee on Indian Affairs Chairman Byron 
Dorgan acknowledged that ``Tribes ceded close to 200 million acres of 
land during the treaty-making and removal periods prior to 1881. Tribes 
lost an additional 90 million acres through the Allotment period 
between 1881 and 1934.'' \12\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ Examining Executive Branch Authority to Acquire Trust Lands 
for Indian Tribes, S. Hrg. 111-136 at 2 (May 21, 2009) (opening 
statement of Chairman Byron Dorgan) (online at https://
www.indian.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/documents/CHRG-
111shrg52879.pdf).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The late Professor William Rice testified that:

        By 1934, Indian landownership had been reduced . . . to 
        48,000,000 acres. But this did not tell the whole story. Even 
        these shocking figures were misleading. Of the 48,000,000 
        remaining acres, some 20,000,000 acres were in unallotted 
        reservations, another 20,000,000 acres were desert or semi-
        desert lands, and some 7,000,000 were in fractionated heirship 
        status awaiting sale to non-Indians.\13\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \13\ See The IRA--75 Years Later: Renewing our Commitment to 
Restore Tribal Homelands and Promote Self-Determination, S. Hrg. 112-
113 at 14 and fn.12 (June 23, 2011) (statement of Prof. William Rice, 
citing Indian Affairs Committee hearings on the ``Wheeler-Howard Indian 
Reorganization Act'') (online at https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/
CHRG-112shrg68389/pdf/CHRG-112shrg68389.pdf).

    The policy of forced Allotment and Assimilation (1881-1934) sought 
to destroy tribal governments by mandating the division of communally 
held tribal government homelands to individual tribal members. After 
allotments were made, remaining Indian lands were deemed ``surplus'' 
and opened to settlement. As noted above, the Allotment policy resulted 
in the taking of more than 90 million acres of Indian lands, and led to 
the checkerboard landownership of many tribal communities and the land 
fractionation problems that continue to this day. Allotment and 
Assimilation also devastated tribal government economies, tribal 
culture, and Indigenous social systems.\14\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \14\ Allotment and its authorized takings of ``surplus'' Indian 
lands stripped tribal governments of untold natural resources. In 
addition, the policy of Assimilation authorized the government to take 
Indian children from their homes, forcing them into federal boarding 
schools where they were forbidden from speaking their language or 
practicing their religion. We commend the Committee for advancing S. 
1723, which would establish a Truth and Healing Commission on Indian 
Boarding School Policies, and strongly support its final passage.

    Since the Supreme Court's 2009 decision in Carcieri v. Salazar, 
this Subcommittee and your Senate counterpart have also frequently 
examined the history, purposes, and impacts of the Indian 
Reorganization Act of 1934 (``IRA''). The primary purposes of the IRA 
were to put a stop to the unilateral allotment of Indian lands and to 
authorize the Interior Department to rebuild the tribal government land 
base.\15\ Section 5 of the IRA provides:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \15\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. Sec. 5101 et seq.

        The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized, in his 
        discretion, to acquire through purchase, relinquishment, gift, 
        exchange, or assignment, any interest in lands, water rights or 
        surface rights to lands, within or without existing 
        reservations, including trust or otherwise restricted 
        allotments whether the allottee be living or deceased, for the 
        purpose of providing land for Indians.\16\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \16\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5108.

    The IRA also sought to limit the often-unchecked authority of the 
Interior Department over local tribal government decision-making. To 
reverse the Allotment policy's efforts to undermine Tribal governments, 
Section 16 of the IRA sought to empower Tribes to organize their own 
governing structures by establishing Tribal constitutions and bylaws 
that fostered the enactment and enforcement of Tribal laws to govern 
their lands.\17\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \17\ See The IRA--75 Years Later: Renewing our Commitment to 
Restore Tribal Homelands and Promote Self-Determination, S. Hrg. 112-
113 at 15-16 (June 23, 2011) (statement of Prof. William Rice, quoting 
Indian Affairs Commissioner and architect of the IRA, John Collier, in 
his testimony before the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs in the run-
up to passage of the IRA: ``Paralleling this basic purpose [of 
reversing the allotment system] is another purpose just as basic. The 
bill stands on two legs. At present the Indian Bureau is a czar. It is 
an autocrat. It is an autocrat checked here and there by enactments of 
Congress; but, in the main, Congress has delegated to the Indian Office 
plenary control over Indian matters. It is a highly centralized 
autocratic absolutism. Furthermore, it is a bureaucratic absolutism.'') 
(online at https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-112shrg68389/pdf/
CHRG-112shrg68389.pdf).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For 75 years, from 1934 to 2009, the Department of the Interior 
restored approximately 8 million acres of tribal government fee lands 
into trust status. Interior Departments of presidents of both political 
parties used the IRA to place land into trust for federally recognized 
Indian tribes regardless of whether they were formally acknowledged as 
a tribe before or after 1934. Tribes have used their trust lands to 
build schools, health centers and housing to serve their communities. 
These lands are also used for tribal enterprises to promote economic 
development in mostly rural communities that are all too often 
underserved and overlooked.\18\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \18\ There is a common misperception that the Interior Department's 
fee to trust process serves to expand Indian gaming. The IRA authorizes 
Interior to place tribal government-owned fee land into trust and 
nothing more. Nothing in the IRA authorizes or regulates Indian gaming. 
The question of whether Indian trust lands are eligible to be used for 
gaming is governed solely by the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act and the 
National Indian Gaming Commission and Interior Department regulations 
developed to implement that separate law. Admittedly, some Tribes do 
submit land into trust applications for gaming purposes. However, those 
relatively few applications must not only meet the requirements of the 
IRA's Part 151 regulations to have land placed into trust, but they 
must also separately meet the requirements of the Interior Department's 
Part 292 IGRA regulations in order to use the lands for gaming 
purposes. As former Assistant Secretary Kevin Washburn noted, of the 
1,300 trust acquisitions submitted to Interior from 2008-2013, fewer 
than 15 were for gaming purposes. See testimony of Kevin Washburn 
before the House Resources Committee's Subcommittee on Indian and 
Alaska Native Affairs, at 2 (Sept. 19, 2013) (online at https://
naturalresources.house.gov/uploadedfiles/washburn testimony09-19-
13.pdf).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 2009 Carcieri v. Salazar Decision and its Impacts

    The Supreme Court, in Carcieri v. Salazar, reversed these 75 years 
of practice and precedent. The Court tied the Interior Secretary's IRA 
Section 5 authority to place land into trust for Indian tribes to the 
Act's definition of ``Indian'', which provides that:

        The term `Indian' as used in this Act shall include all persons 
        of Indian descent who are members of any recognized Indian 
        tribe now under Federal jurisdiction, and all persons who are 
        descendants of such members who were, on June 1, 1934, residing 
        within the present boundaries of any Indian reservation, and 
        shall further include all other persons of one-half or more 
        Indian blood.\19\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \19\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5129 (emphasis added).

    The Court held ``that the term `now under Federal jurisdiction' in 
[the IRA] unambiguously refers to those tribes that were under the 
federal jurisdiction of the United States when the IRA was enacted in 
1934.'' However, Court's decision provided no guidance to determine the 
meaning of the phrase ``under federal jurisdiction'', and nothing in 
the text of the IRA or its legislative history defines that phrase.
    In the first Carcieri-related hearing before Congress, former 
Senate Indian Affairs Committee Chairman Dorgan acknowledged--``I just 
want to say that I am concerned about the court's decision in Carcieri 
and the impact it may have on those tribes that were recognized after 
1934. I believe that Congress will likely need to act to clarify this 
issue for tribes and to ensure that the land in trust process is 
available to all tribes regardless of when they were recognized.'' \20\ 
He predicted that the decision could impact hundreds of tribes by: 
slowing the land-into-trust process; leading to costly litigation over 
the status of Indian lands; complicating criminal jurisdiction in 
Indian Country; hindering economic development; and creating two 
classes of Indian tribes.\21\ Sadly, each of these predictions have 
come true.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \20\ Examining Executive Branch Authority to Acquire Trust Lands, 
S. Hrg. 111-136 at 1 (May 21, 2009) (opening statement of Chairman 
Byron Dorgan) (online at https://www.indian.senate.gov/wp-content/
uploads/documents/CHRG-111shrg52879.pdf).
    \21\ Id. at 2-3.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Costly and Time-Consuming Litigation

    We know the effects of the Carcieri decision all too well. Our 
Tribe has been forced to defend the status of our trust lands in 
several federal court cases. In 2013, the State of Alabama relied on a 
Carcieri-based argument in seeking to enjoin federally approved gaming 
on Poarch Creek trust lands. The United States, while not named as a 
defendant in the proceedings, filed amicus curiae briefs in support of 
the Tribe's successful motion to dismiss the case and again when the 
State unsuccessfully appealed dismissal of its claims to the Eleventh 
Circuit Court of Appeals.\22\ While both the trial and appellate courts 
rejected the State of Alabama's Carcieri challenge, the Tribe was 
forced to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and the federal 
government was forced to devote limited funding an attorney resources 
to secure that result.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \22\ Alabama v. PCI Gaming Auth., 801 F.3d 1278 (11th Cir. 2015).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Similarly, the Tribe was forced to file its own federal lawsuit in 
2015 in response to the Escambia County, Alabama, tax assessor's 
attempt to assess state taxes on Poarch Creek trust lands in erroneous 
reliance on the Carcieri decision. The Tribe again prevailed before the 
federal district court and the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals, with 
the United States filing an appellate amicus curiae brief in support of 
the Tribe's position.\23\ And once again, Poarch Creek and the United 
States were forced to devote limited, valuable time and financial 
resources to litigating spurious claims that resulted directly from the 
uncertainty generated by the Carcieri decision.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \23\ Poarch Band of Creek Indians v. Hildreth, 656 F. App'x 934 
(11th Cir. 2016).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    These are but two examples. We have seen specious Carcieri 
arguments raised in numerous other cases filed in state and federal 
courts, many of which have nothing whatsoever to do with the trust 
status of Poarch Creek lands, but where the Carcieri argument is 
nonetheless raised either out of lack of understanding or in an attempt 
to extort an unwarranted settlement from the Tribe.
    The impacts of Carcieri of course go far beyond our Tribe. Many 
dozens of cases making Carcieri-based arguments have been filed in 
federal and state courts by state and local governments and individuals 
throughout the United States. In addition, the Interior Board of Indian 
Appeals has been bogged down for more than 15 years now with Carcieri-
related challenges to the BIA's IRA fee to trust decisions.\24\ It is 
difficult to fathom the hours and legal fees related to these cases, 
not only to the tribal governments forced to defend the attacks on 
their land, but also to the teams of attorneys at the U.S. Department 
of the Interior's Solicitor's Office and the U.S. Department of 
Justice's Environment and Natural Resources Division.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \24\ See e.g., Legislative Hearing on H.R. 312, Mashpee 
Reaffirmation Act; H.R. 375, National Carcieri Fix; and Discussion 
Draft of the RESPECT Act, at 28-29 (April 3, 2019) (Testimony of 
Professor Colette Routel) (online at https://www.congress.gov/116/chrg/
CHRG-116hhrg35971/CHRG-116hhrg35971.pdf).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thankfully, every court reviewing the issue has upheld the Interior 
Department's decisions to place our land in trust. However, these 
lawsuits have taken a toll, and that is why our Tribe is seeking a 
legislative solution that will provide us with long needed legal 
certainty.
Two Classes of Tribes

    In addition, as Senator Dorgan anticipated, the Carcieri decision 
has created two classes of tribes: those able to prove that they were 
``under federal jurisdiction'' in 1934, and those that cannot. This 
result directly conflicts with Congress' 1994 amendments to the IRA, 
which mandated that all federally recognized Indian tribes be treated 
the same for all purposes under the Act.

    The 1994 amendments were passed in direct reaction to efforts at 
the Bureau of Indian Affairs to use Section 16 of the IRA to classify 
Indian tribes as being either ``created'' or ``historic''. Senator John 
McCain, then Vice Chairman of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, 
offered the amendment, in part, in response to the BIA's treatment of 
the Pascua Yaqui Tribe of Arizona. In his floor statement that led to 
passage of the amendment, Senator McCain shared the following:

        According to the Department, created tribes are only authorized 
        to exercise such powers of self-governance as the Secretary may 
        confer on them . . .. I can find no basis in law or policy for 
        the manner in which section 16 has been interpreted by the 
        Department of the Interior . . ..

        The recognition of an Indian tribe by the Federal Government is 
        just that--the recognition that there is a sovereign entity 
        with governmental authority which predates the U.S. 
        Constitution and with which the Federal Government has 
        established formal relations. Over the years, the Federal 
        Government has extended recognition to Indian tribes through 
        treaties, executive orders, a course of dealing, decisions of 
        the Federal courts, acts of Congress and administrative action. 
        Regardless of the method by which recognition was extended, all 
        Indian tribes enjoy the same relationship with the United 
        States and exercise the same inherent authority. All that 
        section 16 was intended to do was to provide a mechanism for 
        the tribes to interact with other governments in our Federal 
        system in a form familiar to those governments through tribal 
        adoption and Secretarial approval of tribal constitutions for 
        those Indian tribes that choose to employ its provisions.

        Clearly the interpretation of section 16 which has been 
        developed by the Department is inconsistent with the 
        [principal] policies underlying the IRA, which were to 
        stabilize Indian [tribal] governments and to encourage self-
        government. These policies have taken on additional vitality in 
        the last 20 years as the Congress has repudiated and repealed 
        the policy of termination and enacted the Indian Self-
        Determination and Education Assistance Act and the Tribal Self-
        Governance Demonstration Project. The effect of the 
        Department's interpretation of section 16 has been to 
        destabilize Indian tribal governments and to hinder self-
        governance of the Department's unilateral and often arbitrary 
        decisions about which powers of self-governance a tribal 
        government can exercise.\25\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \25\ 140 Cong. Rec. 11234 (May 19, 1994).

    Senator Inouye, then-Chair of the Committee, who also co-sponsored 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
the amendment, made the following statement to clarify its purpose:

        [O]ur amendment will correct any instance where any federally 
        recognized Indian tribe has been classified as `created' and 
        that it will prohibit such classifications from being imposed 
        or used in the future. Our amendment makes it clear that it is 
        and has always been Federal law and policy that Indian tribes 
        recognized by the Federal Government stand on an equal footing 
        to each other and to the Federal Government . . .. Each 
        federally recognized Indian tribe is entitled to the same 
        privileges and immunities as other federally recognized tribes 
        and has the right to exercise the same inherent and delegated 
        authorities. This is true without regard to the manner in which 
        the Indian tribe became recognized by the United States or 
        whether it has chosen to organize under the IRA. By enacting 
        this amendment to section 16 of the IRA, we will provide the 
        stability for Indian tribal governments that the Congress 
        thought it was providing 60 years ago when the IRA was 
        enacted.\26\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \26\ 140 Cong. Rec. 11235 (May 19, 1994).

    The amendment, enacted on May 31, 1994, added subsections (f) and 
(g) to the Section 16 of the IRA. Subsection (f), titled ``Privileges 
and Immunities of Indian Tribes'' prohibited all federal agencies from 
promulgating regulations or making decisions ``that classifies, 
enhances, or diminishes the privileges and immunities available to the 
Indian tribe relative to other federally recognized tribes by virtue of 
their status as Indian tribes.'' Subsection (g) accomplished this same 
goal, but retroactively, by proclaiming that any regulation or 
administrative decision that treated tribal governments in a disparate 
manner ``shall have no force or effect.'' \27\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \27\ P.L. 103-263 (May 31, 1994), codified at 25 U.S.C. 
Sec. 5123(f), (g). Given the background of Section 16 of the IRA 
detailed by Professor Rice, it is beyond comprehension why or how the 
Interior Department undertook this effort.

    One of many tragic results of the Carcieri decision is that it has 
breathed life back into this misguided argument that Tribal governments 
are either ``historic'' or ``created''. Former Assistant Secretary for 
Indian Affairs, Kevin Washburn, testifying in his capacity as a 
Professor of the University of Iowa College of Law, attempted to refute 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
this line of thinking:

        Since the 1990s, there has been a requirement that each year 
        the Federal Government publish the list of tribes that are 
        recognized. It would have been nice if we had had that in 1934. 
        That would have saved a lot of this work for tribes. But the 
        fact is there is no tribe that exists today that did not exist 
        in 1934. We don't create tribes out of whole cloth in this 
        country. We spend a lot of time working on the reformation of 
        that tribal recognition process, and those tribes have always 
        existed and so they deserve to have land if they have existed. 
        So, I would respectfully urge the Committee to try to move H.R. 
        375 through the House.\28\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \28\ Legislative Hearing on H.R. 312, Mashpee Reaffirmation Act; 
H.R. 375, National Carcieri Fix; and Discussion Draft of the RESPECT 
Act, at 17 (April 3, 2019) (Testimony of Professor Kevin Washburn) 
(online at https://www.congress.gov/116/chrg/CHRG-116hhrg35971/CHRG-
116hhrg35971.pdf).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Administrative Attempts to Address the Carcieri Decision

    In the wake of the Carcieri decision, the Interior Department was 
forced to make determinations of whether a Tribe that filed an IRA 
application to place land into trust was under federal jurisdiction on 
a case-by-case basis. Tribal governments were given little guidance 
about what factors would be considered in this determination.
    To provide Tribes and the public with some guidance, the Interior 
Department's Office of the Solicitor issued an official M-Opinion on 
March 12, 2014, that provided a framework of how the agency would 
determine whether an Indian tribe was ``under federal jurisdiction'' in 
1934 for purposes of the administrative fee to trust process. The M-
Opinion set forth a two-part test. The first factor requires a 
sufficient showing that ``the United States had, in 1934 or at some 
point in the tribe's history prior to 1934, an action or series of 
actions--through a course of dealings or other relevant acts for or on 
behalf of the tribe or in some instance tribal members--that are 
sufficient to establish, or that generally reflect federal obligations, 
duties, responsibility for or authority over the tribe by the Federal 
government.'' The second question is to ``ascertain whether the tribe's 
jurisdictional status remained intact in 1934.'' \29\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \29\ The Meaning of Under Federal Jurisdiction for Purposes of the 
Indian Reorganization Act, M-37029 at 19 (Mar. 12, 2014).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    While the M-Opinion provided some needed transparency to the land 
into trust process post-Carcieri, it required extensive analysis and 
work by attorneys and historians from both the applicant Tribe and the 
Interior Department. Some ``under federal jurisdiction'' determinations 
took years to achieve. Often, when a land into trust decision was 
finalized pursuant to the M-Opinion, the Tribe had to wait additional 
years for the land to be placed into trust by wading through the 
federal court process. However, federal courts have generally upheld 
Interior's determinations pursuant to the 2014 M-Opinion.
    On March 9, 2020, then-Solicitor Daniel Jorjani issued a new M-
Opinion withdrawing the 2014 M-Opinion, replacing it with two 
memoranda. The first examines the recognition and jurisdiction elements 
of the phrase ``any recognized tribe now under federal jurisdiction''. 
The second established a four-part test that replaced the test 
established in the 2014 M-Opinion. Step 1 acknowledged that if Congress 
enacted a law after 1934 making Section 5 of the IRA applicable to the 
Tribe, then no ``under federal jurisdiction'' determination would be 
necessary.\30\ In the absence of post-IRA legislation, Step 2 required 
a Tribe to show evidence that it was subject to ``the federal 
government's administration of its Indian affairs authority with 
respect to that particular group of Indians.'' If there is sufficient 
evidence ``presumptively demonstrat[ing]'' federal jurisdiction, the 
trust acquisition may proceed. Step 3 required a Tribe to show that it 
was recognized prior to 1934 and remained under federal jurisdiction in 
1934. Examples meeting Step 3 include ``ratified treaties still in 
effect in 1934; tribe-specific Executive Orders; tribe-specific 
legislation, including termination legislation enacted after 1934, 
which acknowledges the existence of a government-to-government 
relationship with a tribe at the time it is enacted.'' \31\ If a Tribe 
did not meet Steps 1-3, Step Four asks whether the ``totality of an 
applicant tribe's non-dispositive evidence . . . is sufficient to show 
that the tribe was `recognized' in or before 1934 and remained `under 
federal jurisdiction' through 1934 [notwithstanding gaps in the 
historical record].'' Step 4 also stated that applicant tribes 
recognized after 1934 or acknowledged after 1978 under the 
administrative procedures at Part 83 could also show evidence of 
``political-legal `recognition' in or before 1934.'' \32\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \30\ Memorandum from Interior Solicitor Jorjani to Regional and 
Field Solicitors, Procedure for Determining Eligibility for Land-Into-
Trust under the First Definition of ``Indian'' in Section 19 of the 
IRA, at 2 and fn. 4-6 (Mar. 10, 2020).
    \31\ Id. at 6-8.
    \32\ Id. at 8-10.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regulatory Improvements to the Land into Trust Process

    Recognizing the limited shelf life of Interior M-Opinions, in 
October 2021, the Interior Department initiated an effort to amend its 
Part 151 regulations that implement the IRA's Section 5 land into trust 
provision. On December 12, 2023, the Interior Department published a 
final rule to amend these regulations governing the discretionary 
acquisition of tribal fee to trust applications at 25 C.F.R. Part 
151.\33\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \33\ Land Acquisitions, 88 Fed. Reg. 86,222 (Dec. 12, 2023) (to be 
codified at 25 C.F.R. pt. 151).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This is the first substantive update of the administrative Tribal 
fee into trust process since 1995. The regulatory changes streamline 
the land into trust process by establishing a 120-day deadline for the 
Department to make a final determination on trust land applications. 
Importantly, the new regulation establishes criteria for a Tribal 
Government's eligibility to use the regulation by clarifying the 
Department's process to determine whether a Tribe was ``under federal 
jurisdiction'' in 1934, as required by the Supreme Court's Carcieri 
decision.\34\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \34\ In October 2021, Interior held Tribal Leader consultation 
sessions that discussed the need to improve the administrative process 
to restore tribal homelands. On March 28, 2022, the Department released 
draft revisions to Part 151, and held four Tribal Leader consultations, 
which led to a proposed rule that was published on December 6, 2022. 
The Interior Department held several consultations on the proposed 
rule, and accepted verbal and written comments through March 1, 2023.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Our Tribe truly appreciates the Interior Department's efforts to 
improve the administrative land into trust process, and we fully 
support these changes. While the updated regulations make the process 
for a Tribe to prove that it was ``under federal jurisdiction'' much 
clearer, the updated process still requires teams of attorneys and 
historians from both the Tribe and the Interior Department to navigate 
through the regulatory process. If the prior M-Opinions are any 
indication, even the streamlined process could take years to come to 
resolution.
    In addition, we remain concerned that the regulations will be the 
subject of future litigation. Just as the Department's recent land into 
trust decisions made pursuant to the various M-Opinions have been 
challenged in court, decisions made pursuant to the updated regulations 
will likewise be challenged. The ensuing legal process will also take 
many years to achieve a final ruling. The legal challenges will most 
likely start at the Interior Board of Indian Appeals, which is already 
backlogged with dozens of tribal trust land acquisition appeals and 
faces multiple administrative judicial vacancies. Claims will then have 
to wind their way through the federal district and appellate courts, 
again consuming countless hours and resources.
    As a result, our Tribe is taking what for us is a new approach to 
addressing our government's need for additional trust lands by working 
with our congressional delegation and nearby local governments to gain 
support and passage of the Poarch Band of Creek Indians Lands Act, 
which would clarify that our Tribe was under federal jurisdiction in 
1934 for purposes of the IRA. Our approach is consistent with the 
Interior Department's updated land to trust regulations and past and 
recent precedent in Congress.

    Section 151.4(b) of Interior's updated regulation clarifies that if 
Congress enacted legislation after 1934 making the IRA's land into 
trust provisions applicable to a specific Tribe, no ``under federal 
jurisdiction'' analysis is needed. Section 151.4(b) of the final rule 
provides,

        (b) For some Tribes, Congress enacted legislation after 1934 
        making the IRA applicable to the Tribe. The existence of such 
        legislation making the IRA and its trust acquisition provisions 
        applicable to a Tribe eliminates the need to determine whether 
        a Tribe was under Federal jurisdiction in 1934.\35\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \35\ 88 Federal Register 86251 (Dec. 12, 2023).

    While new to our Tribe, this approach simply follows the approach 
that Congress has taken since the 1970s for Tribes that were restored 
to federal recognition through an act of Congress.\36\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \36\ Legislative Hearing on H.R. 312, Mashpee Reaffirmation Act; 
H.R. 375, National Carcieri Fix; and Discussion Draft of the RESPECT 
Act, at 32 and fn. 5 (April 3, 2019) (Testimony of Professor Colette 
Routel) (online at https://www.congress.gov/116/chrg/CHRG-116hhrg35971/
CHRG-116hhrg35971.pdf).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legislative Efforts to Address the Carcieri Decision

    February 24, 2024, marked the 15-year anniversary of the Carcieri 
decision. Congress has considered national Carcieri fix bills every 
year for the past 15 years.\37\ With some minor differences, each of 
these bills sought to amend the IRA to eliminate the phrase ``under 
federal jurisdiction'' and clarify that the IRA's land to trust 
provision applies to all federally recognized Indian tribes. The House 
of Representatives passed a national Carcieri fix in the 116th and 
117th Congresses with broad bipartisan support each time under 
suspension of the rules.\38\ However, those bills did not reach final 
passage.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \37\ 117th Congress--H.R. 4352 (McCollum), S. 1901 (Tester); 116th 
Congress--H.R. 375 (Cole), S. 2808 (Tester); 115th Congress--H.R. 130 
(Cole), H.R. 131 (Cole)(reaffirmation); 114th Congress--H.R. 407 
(McCollum), H.R. 249 (Cole), S. 732 (Tester), H.R. 3137 
(Cole)(reaffirmation); 113th Congress--H.R. 666 (Markey), H.R. 279 
(Cole), S. 2188 (Tester); 112th Congress--H.R. 1234 (Kildee), H.R. 1291 
(Cole), S. 767 (Akaka); 111th Congress--H.R. 3742 (Kildee), H.R. 3697 
(Cole), S. 1703 (Dorgan).
    \38\ Roll call vote on H.R. 4352, passed 302-127 (Dec. 1, 2021) 
(online at https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2021393); Roll call vote on 
H.R. 375, passed 323-96 (May 15, 2019) (online at https://
clerk.house.gov/Votes/2019208).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Poarch Band of Creek Indians has been one of the leading 
advocates for a national ``Carcieri fix.'' Today, I again offer our 
full support for Chairman Cole's bipartisan bill, H.R. 1208, which 
would accomplish this goal.
    In the 118th Congress, however, we are taking a parallel track 
similar to the strategy taken by dozens of Tribes who have worked with 
their congressional delegation to enact bills to mandate fee-to-trust 
actions, reaffirm trust lands, or clarify that the IRA applies to their 
individual tribe.\39\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \39\ See e.g., NDAA for FY'2020, P.L. 116-92 (Dec. 20, 2019) (as 
enacted included the Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians Land 
Affirmation Act (Sec. 2868), the Lytton Rancheria Homelands Act 
(Sec. 2869), the Little Shell Tribe of Chippewa Indians Restoration Act 
(Sec. 2870)); Thomasina E. Jordan Indian Tribes of Virginia Federal 
Recognition Act of 2017, P.L. 115-121 (Jan. 29, 2018); Gun Lake Trust 
Land Reaffirmation Act, P.L. 113-590 (July 30, 2013).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We are grateful to Rep. Carl for introducing the Poarch Band of 
Creek Indians Lands Act, H.R. 6180, which would clarify that the IRA's 
land-into-trust process applies to our Tribe. H.R. 6180 will enable us 
to work with the Interior Department and local governments restore and 
protect our lands to meet the acute needs of our growing community. 
This bill is targeted and tailored, and it has the strong support of 
the Alabama congressional delegation and the cities and counties 
surrounding our trust land, including Elmore County, Escambia County, 
and Montgomery County.
    I respectfully ask the full Committee to bring H.R. 6180 to a 
markup and advance the bill to final passage in the 118th Congress. On 
behalf of the Poarch Band of Creek Indians, I am honored to speak to 
you today, and I am happy to answer any questions. Thank you.

                                 *****

The following documents were submitted as supplements to Ms. Bryan's 
testimony.

                                                                  
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                                 

In Support of Poarch Band of Creek Indians Parity Act--Legislation 
  to clarify the Land Into Trust Process for the Poarch Band of Creek 
                                Indians
                            October 12, 2023

To: Members of the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives
RE: Support for the Poarch Band of Creek Indians Parity Act

    On behalf of the undersigned, we write in strong support of the 
Poarch Band of Creek Indians Parity Act, legislation to clarify the 
Land Into Trust Process for the Poarch Band of Creek Indians (Tribe.)

    The Tribe is a major economic driver in our counties and cities and 
throughout Alabama, and employs over 3500 Alabamians, 90 percent of 
whom are not Tribal members. Additionally, with over 2,700 enrolled 
Poarch Creek tribal members who are citizens of our state, we feel a 
duty to do our small part to ensure the Tribe can exercise its inherent 
sovereignty to provide for future generations.

    This legislation is necessary because the Supreme Court ruled in 
2009 that the Department of Interior's (DOI's) tribal fee-to-trust 
authority is limited to only those tribal governments that were ``under 
federal jurisdiction'' as of June 18, 1934, the date of enactment of 
the Indian Reorganization Act (IRA). DOI has struggled to consistently 
define the term ``under federal jurisdiction.'' The term ``under 
federal jurisdiction'' is not defined in the IRA and there is no 
legislative history to discern congressional intent of the term. Since 
2009, DOI has relied on multiple Solicitor M-opinions to determine 
whether a tribe is under federal jurisdiction. This ambiguity has made 
the process subject to litigation based on unfounded legal claims and 
has resulted in heavy legal/administrative burdens for tribes. As such, 
the Tribe has been subjected to unnecessary litigation over the status 
of its lands since 2009. Further, the U.S. must commit significant 
resources from the Departments of Justice and Interior to do archival 
analysis, legal research, and litigation support for these decisions at 
great taxpayer expense.

    Fortunately, the Tribe has prevailed in these cases, but these 
constant attacks have taken an unnecessary toll on the Tribe--stalling 
development for improved housing, health care, and other essential 
services to the community. The Tribe is a great community partner, and 
it is important that we support their efforts to correct this legal 
ambiguity. This legislation would allow the Tribe to strengthen its 
capacity to better provide for its nation and the surrounding 
communities. We offer our full support of the Poarch Band of Creek 
Indians Parity Act.

            Sincerely,

        Greg Albritton                Alan Baker
        Alabama Senate District 22    Alabama House of Representatives 
                                      District 66
        Jim Staff, Mayor              Jerry Willis, Mayor
        City of Atmore                City of Wetumpka

        Steven Reed, Mayor            Charles W. Jinright, President
        City of Montgomery            Montgomery City Council

        Doug Singleton, Chairman      Bart Mercer, Chairman
        Montgomery County 
        Commission                    Elmore County Commission

        Mack Daugherty                Dennis Hill
        Elmore County Commission      Elmore County Commission

        Henry Hines                   Desirae Lewis Jackson
        Elmore County Commission      Elmore County Commission

        Raymond Wiggins, Chairman     Steven Dickey
        Escambia County Commission    Escambia County Commission

        Larry White                   Karean L. Reynolds
        Escambia County Commission    Escambia County Commission

        Brandon Smith
        Escambia County Commission

                                 ______
                                 

Questions Submitted for the Record to the Hon. Stephanie Bryan, Tribal 
                   Chair & CEO, Poarch Creek Indians

            Questions Submitted by Representative Westerman

    Question 1. Your written testimony described your tribal history in 
the state of Alabama and the tribe's current relationships with many 
local governments. Can you expand on how your tribe was able to build 
and maintain these relationships?

    1a) How can Congress help to promote congenial relationships 
between tribes and localities?

    Answer. When we first went through the Interior Department's land 
into trust process, our Tribe did not have much in the way of 
resources. Over the years, as our economy developed and the Tribe's 
enterprises grew and diversified, we were able to strengthen our 
relationships with nearby counties and local governments, entering into 
dozens of MOUs and intergovernmental agreements as noted in my written 
statement. However, far too many tribal governments lack resources to 
meet the most basic needs of their citizens. As a result, they are not 
able to help their neighboring state or local governments.
    One proposal that would help foster relationships between tribes 
and local units of government would be to include tribal trust lands in 
the Payment In Lieu of Taxes (``PILT'') program. Congress established 
the PILT program in 1976 to help local governments offset losses in 
property taxes due to the existence of nontaxable Federal lands within 
their boundaries. PILT payments are made annually for tax-exempt 
Federal lands administered by Department of the Interior agencies, 
including the Bureau of Land Management, the National Park Service, the 
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and the Bureau of Reclamation. In 
addition, PILT payments cover Federal lands administered by the U.S. 
Forest Service, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and the Utah 
Reclamation Mitigation and Conservation Commission.
    Many local government concerns with tribal government land-into-
trust applications relate to potential losses of tax revenue. Including 
tribal trust lands in the PILT program would resolve these concerns. 
While Indian trust lands are not public lands owned by the United 
States, the government does hold legal treaty and trust obligations to 
make existing Indian lands livable homes to tribal citizens and to help 
restore the tribal government land base.
    Question 2. You mentioned in your testimony that several litigation 
challenges continually use the Carcieri decision reasoning, even after 
cases have been resolved.

    2a) Is there any litigation still ongoing?

    2b) If so, what is the status of the litigation?

    Answer. Fortunately, our Tribe, often with the support of the 
federal government, has been successful in defeating most Carcieri-
based arguments in court during the early stages of litigation. We have 
also settled a handful of lawsuits where Carcieri arguments were raised 
in connection with alleged injuries involving our various businesses 
and facilities. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit has 
already rejected challenges to the status of our trust lands on two 
separate occasions. See Poarch Band of Creek Indians v. Hildreth, 565 
F. App'x 934, 942-44 (11th Cir. 2016); Alabama v. PCI Gaming Authority, 
801 F.3d 1278, 1291-93 (11th Cir. 2015). The United States filed brief 
in support of our Tribe in both of these cases, expending valuable 
federal resources.
    The only ongoing litigation where a Carcieri challenge has been 
raised is a lawsuit brought by the Muscogee (Creek) Nation challenging 
our right to develop our trust land in Wetumpka, Alabama. The United 
States District Court for the Middle District of Alabama dismissed all 
of Muscogee's claims against our Tribe and the United States in March 
2021, but Muscogee has appealed that ruling to the Eleventh Circuit 
Court of Appeals. Muscogee's Carcieri claims ignore the two prior 
decisions on this now well-settled legal question, and further prove 
our point that our Tribe will be forced to litigate these baseless 
legal claims time and again without enactment of H.R. 6160. And 
Muscogee's lawsuit, which names various federal officials and entities 
as defendants, has forced the federal government to once again expend 
taxpayer funds to relitigate this twice-decided issue. After Muscogee 
filed its appeal, our two tribal nations engaged in a lengthy mediation 
process in an effort to amicably resolve the dispute, but it proved 
unsuccessful, and the appeal is moving forward. The only question on 
appeal is whether the Poarch Band of Creek Indians can be sued in 
federal court without our consent; the district court dismissed 
Muscogee's claims without even needing to reach the Carcieri argument. 
All appellate briefs have been filed, and oral argument before a panel 
of the Eleventh Circuit is set for September of this year.

    Question 3. In your written testimony, you mentioned that your 
tribe is looking to develop a nursing home but needs additional land.

    3a) Are there lands your tribe is seeking to have taken into trust 
currently?

    3b) Have you seen any opposition to these applications?

    Answer. Currently, we do not have any pending trust land 
applications due to the concerns the Tribe has regarding the definition 
of ``under federal jurisdiction'' in 1934. As previously stated the 
Poarch Band of Creek Indians has already spent millions of dollars 
defending our existing trust lands. While we are confident that our 
Tribe qualifies to have land taken into trust under current law, as the 
federal government has repeatedly concluded, we are equally confident 
that any trust land application by our Tribe will lead to costly, 
extended litigation that will frustrate the purpose and value of any 
potential trust acquisition. Until the Department of Interior's 
authority to take land into trust for our Tribe is unequivocally 
affirmed, we cannot risk facing additional costly challenges that may 
arise due to the lack of clarity on the definition of `under federal 
jurisdiction' as required by the Indian Reorganization Act.

    Question 4. Is there anything else you would like to add to your 
testimony on how the Department of the Interior's fee-to-trust process 
could be reformed to benefit tribes and state and local governments?

    Answer. As noted in my written testimony, the Poarch Band of Creek 
Indians generally supports the amendments to the Part 151 regulations. 
We support the clarification to the process for a Tribe to prove that 
it was ``under federal jurisdiction.'' However, as noted below, upon 
further review of new Part 151.11, the Tribe does not support the 
elimination of the ``bungee cord'' approach, which had been employed 
since at least 1995.

    Question 5. The new 25 CFR Part 151 regulations governing lands 
into trust provide no geographic boundaries within which tribes can 
acquire trust lands, eliminates the previous requirement that the 
Secretary use heightened scrutiny the further a tribe goes from its 
existing reservation to seek new trust lands, and failed to include a 
consultation requirement with nearby tribes for any new trust land 
acquisitions. In fact, the regulations do not even require the 
Department to notify a tribe if another tribe applies for trust lands. 
The Interior Secretary would be able to review such an application with 
complete discretion and no requirement to notify or consult affected 
tribes.

    5a) Does Poarch Band support this part of the new regulations that 
eliminate the heightened scrutiny for applications that seek to acquire 
lands far from a tribe's existing reservation?

    5b) Would you want the Interior Secretary to be mandated to consult 
with you if any other tribe applies for trust lands within your 
ancestral territory in Alabama?

    Answer. The updated regulations to Part 151.11, now listed under 
the question ``How will the Secretary evaluate a request involving land 
outside of and noncontiguous to the boundaries of an Indian 
reservation?'', eliminate the requirement that as the distance between 
the applicant-tribe's reservation and the land sought to be placed in 
trust increases, ``the Secretary shall give greater scrutiny'' to 
application.
    As noted in my written testimony, our Tribe appreciates the 
Interior Department's efforts to improve the administrative land into 
trust process. We generally support the changes at Part 151.4 to 
clarify the process for a Tribe to prove that it was ``under federal 
jurisdiction.'' However, upon further review of new Part 151.11, the 
Tribe does not support the elimination of the requirement that the 
Secretary give greater scrutiny to off-reservation land into trust 
applications as the distance between the applicant tribe's current 
lands increases, also known as the ``bungee cord'' approach, which had 
been employed since at least 1995.
    Yes, we would want the Interior Secretary to consult if any other 
tribe applied for trust lands within our ancestral territory in 
Alabama. Failure to require consultation with nearby federally 
recognized Indian tribes has been a long-standing gap in the fee to 
trust process. While the regulations in place from at least 1995 to 
2024 required Interior to provide notice and comment to state and local 
governments, it did not provide similar outreach to federally 
recognized Indian tribes that have existing trust lands nearby the 
proposed land into trust application and have never required meaningful 
consultation with nearby federally recognized Indian tribes.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Ms. Bryan. The Chair now recognizes 
the Honorable David Rabbitt for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. DAVID RABBITT, DISTRICT 2 SUPERVISOR, 
     SONOMA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, SONOMA, CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Rabbitt. Chair Hageman, thank you very much. Ranking 
Member Leger Fernandez, thank you, as well. And members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to participate in 
today's hearing. My name is David Rabbitt. I am an elected 
supervisor from Sonoma County, California and current Chair. 
The testimony that I am delivering is on behalf of the National 
Association of Counties, or NACo, which represents America's 
3,069 counties, nearly 40,000 county elected officials, and 
over 3.6 million county employees. I am an active member of 
NACo, formerly serving on its board of directors, and have been 
a leading voice in county and tribal relations.
    Incidentally, I am from Sonoma County, a county that has 
five federally recognized tribes. A sixth is also looking to 
move into the county. Three of those tribes currently operate 
casinos: two within the county, one within the Bay area. But I 
will say this, that we have agreements with all five of our 
federally recognized tribes, and that is what I am here today 
to hope that you also agree that that is a great way to go 
forward.
    Counties play, as you know, a critical role in everyday 
life of the nation's residents. Strong intergovernmental 
partners, county support, government-to-government relations 
that recognize the unique role and interests of tribes, state, 
counties, and other local governments, all to protect the 
members of our communities.
    It is incumbent upon Congress to fix the long-standing 
systemic defects in the Department of the Interior's broken 
fee-to-trust process. And to be clear, we believe that any 
Carcieri fix or any legislation that would restore the Interior 
Secretary's authority to take land into trust for tribes must 
be coupled with much-needed, long-overdue reforms in the 
Federal Government's deeply flawed trust land decision-making 
process.
    Unfortunately, the so-called clean Carcieri fix would do 
nothing to repair the underlying problems in the trust land 
system, and would only serve to exacerbate and perpetuate the 
inherent conflict and fundamental flaws of the current process, 
a process, incidentally, that is broken for all parties: tribes 
and local governments.
    Existing Federal laws and regulations simply fail to 
address the off-reservation impacts of tribal land development, 
including casinos, and particularly in those instances of local 
land use and health and safety regulations.
    Trust acquisitions often increase demands for critical 
county services and resources such as law enforcement, fire 
protection, transportation, and water, without providing any 
mitigation for these impacts. Not only is mitigation ignored in 
the fee-to-trust process, a county's capacity to address the 
impacts is reduced by eliminating the land from the local tax 
base.
    Nonetheless, although trust acquisitions often result in 
significant off-reservation impacts, the Department of the 
Interior does not provide impacted local governments and 
communities with sufficient notice or meaningful opportunity to 
comment regarding fee-to-trust applications. Furthermore, the 
Department does not accord county concerns in off-reservation 
impacts adequate weight in the land-to-trust process.
    The Federal process is also flawed in that it does not 
provide an avenue for tribes to engage in good faith 
discussions regarding mitigation of environmental impacts of 
tribal development, nor is there any incentive for tribes to 
enter into mitigation agreements with local governments. It 
should be noted that an approach that encourages the 
intergovernment agreements between tribes and local governments 
affected by fee-to-trust applications is required and working 
well under recent California State gaming compacts.
    Again, in Sonoma County we entered into a comprehensive 
intergovernmental agreement to create an over 500-acre homeland 
for the Lytton Band of Pomo Indians, and supported legislation 
by Congressman Huffman to take that land into trust.
    Not only does such a collaborative approach offer the 
opportunity to streamline the application process, it can also 
help us ensure that success of the tribal project within the 
local community. The establishment of a trust land system that 
incentivizes intergovernmental agreements between tribes and 
local governments is at the heart of NACo's fee-to-trust reform 
recommendations.
    I would like to take just a few minutes to talk about that 
further. I can tell you personally I am an architect by 
profession, therefore, involved in development. And every 
development has an impact, an off-site impact, especially the 
smaller pieces of land, lands where that development occurs. 
And it is incumbent upon the developer, or the applicant, or 
the owner of that property to make sure that they are 
mitigating those impacts to the best extent possible. You can't 
eliminate everything, but you certainly can mitigate it. And I 
think, if you don't, what you end up doing is pushing that can 
down the road. And, unfortunately, I think what we have seen in 
the past is that many times leads to litigation.
    Some people think, by having these intergovernmental 
agreements beforehand, that that would delay a process. I 
personally believe, and by evidence with our experiences in our 
county believe, that actually it would speed the process 
because you would eliminate the chances of having litigation in 
the future over things that weren't transparent or fully 
explained prior.
    I think it is really just sitting down with each other, 
like most things are, communicating with one another. We 
totally understand and respect the sovereignty of the Tribal 
Nations. We can't dictate what is going to be built on those 
properties, but we can talk about how people will come and go 
from those properties. We can talk about what water will be 
used for those properties. We can talk about how the fire 
services, the law enforcement services, and so on and so forth.
    And I very much appreciate the board's willingness to hear 
me out today. And certainly, there is more within the written 
testimony.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Rabbitt follows:]
   Prepared Statement of the Hon. David Rabbitt, Supervisor, Sonoma 
 County, California on Behalf of the National Association of Counties 
                                 (NACo)
                       on H.R. 1208 and H.R. 6180

    Thank you, Chair Westerman, Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Leger 
Fernandez, and Members of the Subcommittee, for the opportunity to 
testify today. My name is David Rabbitt, and I am a County Supervisor 
in Sonoma County, California and am actively involved in and formerly 
served as a member of the Board of Directors of the National 
Association of Counties (NACo). This testimony is submitted on behalf 
of NACo, which has been a leader in pursuing federal laws and 
regulations that provide the framework for constructive government-to-
government relationships between counties and tribes.
    Established in 1935, NACo is the only national organization 
representing county governments in Washington, DC. Over 2,600 of the 
3,069 counties in the United States are members of NACo, representing 
over 80 percent of the nation's population. NACo provides an extensive 
line of services including legislative, research, technical and public 
affairs assistance, as well as enterprise services to its members.
    I am also an active member of the California State Association of 
Counties (CSAC), which was founded in 1895, and is the unified voice on 
behalf of all 58 of California's counties. The primary purpose of the 
association is to represent county government before the California 
Legislature, administrative agencies, and the federal government. Along 
with NACo, CSAC has been a leader in actively pursuing federal policies 
aimed at fostering productive tribal-county relationships.
    Counties play a critical role in the everyday lives of our nation's 
residents. Many county responsibilities are mandated by both the state 
and the federal government. While county responsibilities differ 
widely, most states grant their counties significant authority to 
fulfill public services. These authorities include construction and 
maintenance of roads, bridges and critical infrastructure, assessment 
of property taxes, record keeping, administering elections, and 
overseeing jails, court systems and public hospitals. Counties are also 
responsible for child welfare, consumer protection, economic 
development, employment and workforce training, emergency management, 
land use planning and zoning. As strong intergovernmental partners, 
counties support government-to-government relations that recognize the 
unique role and interests of tribes, state, counties and other local 
governments to protect all members of our communities and provide 
governmental services and infrastructure beneficial to all.
    At the outset, I'd like to take this opportunity to reaffirm NACo's 
absolute respect for the authority of federally recognized Indian 
tribes. We reaffirm our support for the right of tribes to self-
governance and recognize the need for tribes to preserve their heritage 
and to pursue economic self-reliance. Furthermore, NACo recognizes the 
disparity and inequity caused by the Court's 2009 decision in Carcieri 
v. Salazar and believes that it continues to be the responsibility of 
Congress to pass legislation that would put all federally recognized 
tribes on equal footing relative to the opportunity to have land taken 
into trust.
    At the same time, it is absolutely essential that Congress fix the 
long-standing, systemic defects in the Department of the Interior's 
broken fee-to-trust process. To be crystal clear, we believe that any 
Carcieri fix--that is, any legislation that would restore the Interior 
Secretary's authority to take land into trust for tribes--must be 
coupled with much-needed, long overdue reforms in the Federal 
Government's deeply flawed trust land decision-making process. 
Unfortunately, a so-called ``clean Carcieri fix,'' such as the one 
embodied in H.R. 1208, would do nothing to repair the underlying 
problems in the trust-land system and would only serve to perpetuate 
the inherent conflict of the current process--a process, incidentally, 
that is broken for all parties, tribes and local governments.
    Notably, recent action taken by the U.S. Department of the 
Interior--namely a series of updates to the Bureau of Indian Affairs' 
(BIA) fee-to-trust regulations found at 25 CFR Part 151--did nothing to 
repair the underlying flaws in the trust acquisition system. Rather, 
the Department's new regulation, which went into effect in January 
2024, further undercuts counties' already limited ability to 
participate in the fee-to-trust process. Of paramount concern to 
counties, the rule does not adequately account for--or include any sort 
of mechanism to address--the significant impacts to local governments 
and communities that often occur as a result of major tribal 
development projects, including casinos.
The Deficiencies of the Current Trust-Land Process

    The fundamental problem with the trust acquisition process is that 
Congress has not established objective standards under which any 
delegated trust-land authority is to be applied by the BIA. The 
relevant section of federal law, Section 5 of the Indian Reorganization 
Act of 1934 (IRA), reads as follows: ``The Secretary of the Interior is 
hereby authorized in his discretion, to acquire [by various means] any 
interest in lands, water rights, or surface rights to lands, within or 
without reservations . . . for the purpose of providing land to 
Indians.'' 25 U.S.C. Sec. 465.
    This general and undefined congressional guidance, which was 
codified 90 years ago, has resulted in a trust-land process that fails 
to meaningfully include legitimate interests, provide adequate 
transparency to the public, or demonstrate fundamental balance in 
trust-land decisions. The unsatisfactory process, which is governed by 
the BIA's Part 151 regulations, has created significant controversy, 
serious conflicts between tribes and states, counties and local 
governments--including litigation costly to all parties--and broad 
distrust of the fairness of the system. Tribes deserve an efficient and 
predictable trust acquisition process that is not continually bogged 
down by controversy and legal action. Likewise, states and counties 
also deserve a process that considers their legitimate governmental 
interests.
    With 574 federally recognized tribes across the United States, no 
two fee-to-trust applications are alike. In California, we see this 
diversity firsthand with over 100 federally recognized tribes, all of 
which have unique cultural history and geography. The diversity of 
applications and circumstances across the country reinforces the need 
for both clear, objective standards in the fee-to-trust process and the 
importance of local intergovernmental agreements to address specific 
concerns.
    Notably, many California tribes are located on ``Rancherias,'' 
which were originally federal property on which landless Indians were 
placed. No ``recognition'' was extended to most of these tribes at that 
time. Therefore any Carcieri-related legislation must address the 
significant issues raised in states like California and many others 
across the country which did not generally have a ``reservation'' 
system and that are now faced with small Bands of tribal people who are 
recognized by the federal government as tribes and who may seek to 
establish large commercial casinos. In particular, legislation must 
ensure improved notice to counties and define the standards by which 
property can be removed from local jurisdiction. Moreover, requirements 
must be established to ensure that the significant off-reservation 
impacts of tribal projects are fully mitigated.
    It should be noted that many of the deficiencies in the trust-land 
process were reaffirmed in a quantitative analysis of all 111 fee-to-
trust decisions by the Pacific Region BIA Office between 2001 and 
2011.\1\ The analysis found that BIA granted 100 percent of the 
proposed acquisition requests and in no case did any Section 151 factor 
weigh against approval of an application.\2\ The analysis further found 
that because of the lack of clear guidance and objective criteria, 
Pacific Region BIA decisions avoid substantive analysis in favor of 
filler considerations and boilerplate language.\3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ (Kelsey J. Waples, Extreme Rubber Stamping: The Fee-to-Trust 
Process of the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934, 40 Pepperdine Law 
Review 250 (2013).
    \2\ Id., pp. 278.
    \3\ Id., pp. 286, 293, 302.

    These same conclusions were reached in a 2006 Government Accounting 
Office Report to Congress on the fee-to-trust process, which determined 
that the regulations do not provide a clear, uniform or objective 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
approach. The Report found:

        [T]he regulations provide wide discretion to the decision maker 
        because the criteria are not specific, and BIA has not provided 
        clear guidelines for applying them. Given the wide discretion 
        that exists and the increased scrutiny that the land in trust 
        process has come under with the growth of Indian gaming, it is 
        important that the process be as open and transparent as 
        possible.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Indian Issues: BIA's Efforts to impose Time Frames and Collect 
Better Data Should Improve the Processing of Land in Trust 
Applications,'' U.S. Government Accounting Office, at pp. 36-38 (July 
2006).

    Unfortunately, the fee-to-trust process remains broken as community 
concerns are ignored or downplayed, applications are rubber-stamped at 
a 100 percent acceptance rate, and tribes and local governments are 
forced into unnecessary and unproductive conflict.\5\ Moreover, the 
deficiencies in the process could soon be amplified by the recent 
revisions to BIA's Part 151 regulations, which further streamline the 
fee-to-trust process by eliminating certain criteria and establishing 
several new presumptions of approval. Additionally, the new regulations 
establish a 120-day time frame for a Tribe to receive a final fee-to-
trust decision. Currently, this process takes 958 days, on average, and 
while counties agree this is simply too long for Tribes to wait for a 
decision, 120 days is not a sufficient amount of time for BIA to 
comprehensively review and evaluate the impacts of an application.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Id., pp. 292, 295, 297.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    While there are a number of major flaws in BIA's fee-to-trust 
process, one of NACo's central concerns is the severely limited role 
that state and local governments play. The implications of losing 
jurisdiction over local lands are very significant, including the loss 
of tax base, loss of planning and zoning authority, and the loss of 
environmental and other regulatory power. Yet, in practice, state, 
county and local governments are afforded limited, and often late, 
notice of a pending trust land application, and, under the Part 151 
regulations, are asked to provide comments on two narrow issues only: 
1) potential jurisdictional conflicts; and, 2) loss of tax revenues.
    Moreover, the notice that local governments receive typically does 
not include the actual fee-to-trust application and often does not 
indicate how the applicant tribe intends to use the land. Further, in 
some cases, tribes have identified a non-intensive, mundane use, only 
to change the use to heavy economic development, such as gaming or 
energy projects, soon after the land is acquired in trust.
    One measure of the severe dysfunction is that local governments are 
often forced to resort to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests to 
ascertain if a trust application or a petition for an Indian lands 
determination--a key step in the process for a parcel of land to 
qualify for gaming--has been filed with the BIA. Again, despite the 
significant impact on counties, and the relevant information they hold, 
local governments do not receive notice of the filing of either a trust 
application or Indian Lands determination. Although trust applications 
are often deemed incomplete by the BIA, it is during this time that 
counties and tribes are best positioned to collaboratively address any 
concerns before receiving formal notice of a complete application and 
be given 30 days to decide whether to support or oppose the project. 
The lack of consultation is even worse with Indian lands 
determinations, as counties are not notified of the requests and are 
not allowed to comment or otherwise invited to participate in the 
process. These processes must include local participation in order to 
ensure that there is a complete factual basis upon which objective 
decisions can be made.
    While the Department of the Interior has acknowledged the increased 
impacts and conflicts inherent in recent trust-land decisions, its new 
regulations do not strike a reasonable balance between tribes seeking 
new trust lands and the states and local governments experiencing 
unacceptable impacts. Indeed, the notification process embodied in the 
new Part 151 regulations is insufficient and falls far short of 
providing local governments with the level of detail needed to 
adequately respond to proposed trust-land acquisitions. This point was 
included as a ``Recommendation for Executive Action'' in the GAO 
Report, as the Interior Secretary was recommended to direct BIA to 
revise trust regulations and ``guidelines for providing state and local 
governments more information on the applications and a longer period to 
provide meaningful comments on the applications[.]'' \6\ Regrettably, 
the 2024 regulations do not embody this important recommendation and 
state and local governments continue to have only 30 days to provide 
comments on a pending fee-to-trust application.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ GAO Report, supra. at p. 37.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carcieri v. Salazar--An Historic Opportunity

    On February 24, 2009, the U.S. Supreme Court issued its landmark 
decision on Indian trust lands in Carcieri v. Salazar. The Court held 
that the Secretary of the Interior lacks authority to take land into 
trust on behalf of Indian tribes that were not under the jurisdiction 
of the federal government upon enactment of the IRA in 1934.
    Because the Carcieri decision definitively confirmed the 
Secretary's lack of authority to take land into trust for post-1934 
tribes, Congress has the opportunity not just to address the issue of 
the Secretary's authority under the current failed fee-to-trust system, 
but to reassert its primary authority for these decisions by setting 
specific standards for taking land into trust that address the main 
shortcomings of the trust land-process.
    In the 15 years since this significant court decision, varied 
proposals for reversing the Carcieri decision have been generated, some 
proposing administrative action and others favoring a congressional 
approach. Today's hearing, like several hearings before it, is 
recognition of the significance of the Carcieri decision and the need 
to consider legislative action.
    We believe that the responsibility to address the implications of 
Carcieri clearly rests with Congress and that a decision to do so in 
isolation of the larger problems of the fee-to-trust system would 
represent an historic missed opportunity. Indeed, a legislative 
resolution to Carcieri that keeps the current trust-land system in 
place will be regarded as unsatisfactory to counties, local 
governments, and the people we serve. Rather than a ``fix,'' such a 
result would only perpetuate a broken system, where the non-tribal 
entities most affected by the trust acquisition process are without a 
meaningful role. Ultimately, this would undermine the respectful 
government-to-government relationship that is necessary for both tribes 
and neighboring governments to fully develop, thrive, and provide 
critical services to the people dependent upon them for their well 
being.
    Accordingly, our primary recommendation to the Subcommittee and 
Congress is this: Do not advance a congressional response to Carcieri 
that allows the Department of the Interior to continue the flawed fee-
to-trust process. Rather, Congress should make meaningful, 
comprehensive reforms to the trust-land system that reflect the right 
to self-governance of our Tribal neighbors and which address the 
legitimate concerns of counties and other key stakeholders.
    NACo believes that the Carcieri decision presents Congress with an 
opportunity to carefully exercise its constitutional authority for fee-
to-trust acquisitions and to define the respective roles of Congress 
and the Executive Branch in trust-land decisions. Additionally, it 
affords Congress with the opportunity to establish clear and specific 
congressional standards and processes to guide trust-land decisions in 
the future. A clear definition of roles is acutely needed regardless of 
whether trust and recognition decisions are ultimately made by 
Congress, as provided in the Constitution, or the Executive Branch 
under a congressional grant of authority.
    As we have urged for years, we respectfully ask Members of this 
Subcommittee to employ a comprehensive approach to addressing the 
implications of the Carcieri decision and the deficiencies in the trust 
land process, , namely: 1) the absence of authority to acquire trust 
lands, which affects post-1934 tribes, and, 2) the lack of meaningful 
standards and a fair and open process, which affects states, local 
governments, businesses and non-tribal communities. As the Subcommittee 
considers potential Carcieri legislation, it should undertake reform 
that is in the interests of all affected parties--both Tribes and non-
Tribal governments alike.
Legislative Recommendations

    1. Require Full Disclosure and Fair Notice and Transparency from 
the BIA on Trust Land Applications and Other Indian Land Decisions. The 
Part 151 regulations are not specific and do not require sufficient 
information to be furnished to affected parties regarding tribal plans 
to use the land proposed for trust status. As a result, it is very 
difficult for those parties (local and state governments, and the 
public) to determine the nature of the tribal proposal, evaluate the 
impacts, and provide meaningful comments.
    Federal law should require BIA to ensure that tribes provide 
reasonably detailed information about the intended uses of proposed 
trust land, not unlike the public information required for planning, 
zoning and permitting on the local level. This assumes even greater 
importance since local planning, zoning and permitting are being 
preempted by the trust land decision; accordingly, information about 
intended uses is reasonable and fair to require.
    Legislative changes need to be made to ensure that affected 
governments receive timely notice of fee-to-trust applications and 
petitions for Indian land determinations in their jurisdiction and have 
adequate time to provide meaningful input. Indian lands determinations, 
a critical step for a tribe to take land into trust for gaming 
purposes, is conducted in secret without notice to affected counties or 
any real opportunity for input. As previously indicated, counties are 
often forced to file a FOIA request to even determine if an application 
was filed and the basis for the petition.
    Notice for trust and other land actions for tribes that go to 
counties and other governments is not only very limited in coverage, 
the opportunity to comment is minimal; this must change. A new paradigm 
is needed where counties are considered meaningful and constructive 
stakeholders in Indian land-related determinations. For too long, 
counties have been excluded from providing input in critical Department 
of Interior decisions and policy formation that directly affects their 
communities. NACo believes counties should be provided 120 days to 
respond to land in trust applications and request that BIA provide a 
response explaining the rationale for acceptance or rejection within 90 
days.\7\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ National Association of Counties (NACo). 2024. American County 
Platform. https://www.naco.org/resources/2023%E2%80%932024-american-
county-platform-and-resolutions

    2. Establish Clear and Objective Standards for Agency Exercise of 
Discretion in Making Fee-to-Trust Decisions. The lack of meaningful 
standards or any objective criteria in fee-to-trust decisions made by 
the BIA has been long criticized by the U.S. Government Accountability 
Office and local governments. As previously indicated, BIA requests 
only minimal information about the impacts of such acquisitions on 
local communities and trust land decisions are not governed by a 
requirement to balance the benefit to the tribe against the impact to 
the local community. As a result, there are well-known and significant 
impacts of trust land decisions on communities and states, with 
consequent controversy and delay and distrust of the process.
    Furthermore, the BIA has broad authority and discretion to make 
acquisition decisions in favor of tribes, an authority that was 
affirmed and further broadened through BIA's recent Part 151 revisions. 
To reasonably balance the interests of tribes and local governments, 
Congress should provide the Executive Branch with clear statutory 
standards that take into account the legitimate interests of both 
parties. However any delegation of authority is ultimately resolved, 
Congress must specifically direct balanced standards that ensure that 
trust land requests cannot be approved where the negative impacts to 
other parties outweigh the benefit to the tribe.

    3. Tribes that Reach Local Intergovernmental Agreements to Address 
Jurisdiction and Environmental Impacts Should Have a Streamlined 
Process. The legal framework should encourage tribes to reach 
intergovernmental agreements to address off-reservation project impacts 
by providing a streamlined fee-to-trust process when such agreements 
are in place. Tribes, states, and counties need a process that is less 
costly and more efficient. The virtually unfettered discretion 
delegated to the BIA by virtue of the Part 151 regulations, along with 
the lack of clear standards, almost inevitably creates conflict and 
burdens the system. A process that encourages cooperation and 
communication provides a basis to expedite decisions and reduce costs 
and frustration for all involved. Furthermore, counties oppose any 
federal actions that limit our ability to reach mutually acceptable and 
enforceable agreements and/or provide critical services to our 
communities.
    It should be noted that an approach that encourages 
intergovernmental agreements between a tribe and local government 
affected by fee-to-trust applications is required and has worked well 
in recent California gaming compacts. Not only does such an approach 
offer the opportunity to streamline the application process, it can 
also help to ensure the success of the tribal project within the local 
community. The establishment of a trust-land system that incentivizes 
intergovernmental agreements between tribes and local governments is at 
the heart of NACo's fee-to-trust reform recommendations and should be a 
top priority for Congress.

    4. Secretarial Determination Regarding Off-reservation Impacts--
While there are many examples of successful collaboration between 
tribes and counties, neighboring governments will not always see eye-
to-eye on major development projects. Therefore, in cases in which 
tribes and counties are unable to reach enforceable mitigation 
agreements with respect to potential trust acquisitions, legislation 
should require the Secretary of the Interior to undertake a 
comprehensive analysis of all anticipated off-reservation impacts in 
direct consultation with the state and affected local government(s). In 
turn, and as a condition of approving a trust acquisition, the 
Secretary should be required to certify that the applicant has taken 
steps to ensure that all significant jurisdictional conflicts and 
impacts--including increased costs of local services, lost revenues, 
and environmental impacts--have been mitigated to the maximum extent 
practicable. Counties believes that this type of Secretarial 
determination must be part of any Carcieri/fee-to-trust reform package.
Conclusion

    Congressional action must address the critical repairs needed in 
the fee-to-trust process. Unfortunately, legislation currently pending 
in the U.S. House (H.R. 1208) fails to set clear standards for taking 
land into trust, to properly balance the roles and interests of tribes, 
state, local and federal governments in these decisions, and to clearly 
address the apparent usurpation of authority by the Executive Branch 
over Congress' constitutional authority over tribal recognition.
    We ask Members of the Subcommittee to incorporate the 
aforementioned reforms into any legislation that addresses the Carcieri 
decision. Counties' proposals are common-sense reforms, based upon a 
broad national base of experience on these issues that, if enacted, 
will eliminate some of the most controversial and problematic elements 
of the current trust land acquisition process. The result would help 
states, local governments and non-tribal stakeholders. It also would 
assist trust land applicants by guiding their requests towards a 
collaborative process and, in doing so, reduce the delay and 
controversy that now routinely accompany acquisition requests.
    Thank you for considering these views.

                                 ______
                                 

     Questions Submitted for the Record to the Hon. David Rabbitt, 
             Supervisor, Sonoma County Board of Supervisors
             and Member of National Association of Counties

            Questions Submitted by Representative Westerman

    Question 1. Can you expand from your testimony on how 
intergovernmental mitigation agreements between tribal and local 
governments have benefited land-into-trust projects? And have you seen 
a specific benefit to tribal gaming projects that include these 
intergovernmental mitigation agreements?

    Answer. In Sonoma County and other jurisdictions, the development 
and approval of intergovernmental mitigation agreements have greatly 
benefited land-into-trust projects, particularly in the case of 
proposed gaming operations. While I describe in greater detail Sonoma 
County's experience in this regard (please see the answer to question 
2), to follow are a number of examples in California that illustrate 
how mitigation agreements have yielded favorable outcomes. In all cases 
in which county and tribal leaders have come together, the result has 
been enhanced respect and renewed government-to-government 
partnerships.
    In Yolo County, the Board of Supervisors has a long history of 
working with the Yocha Dehe Wintun Nation to ensure adequate services 
in the area where the tribe's casino is operating. In addition to 
reaching an agreement for the mitigation of off-reservation impacts 
resulting from the tribe's casino expansion and hotel project, Yolo 
County has entered into agreements with the tribe to address impacts 
created by other tribal trust-land projects in the county.
    In southern California, numerous tribes in San Diego County have 
worked with the county sheriff's department on law enforcement-related 
issues in communities where tribal casinos are located. Additionally, 
San Diego County has entered into agreements with several tribes to 
address transportation impacts created by various land-into-trust/
casino projects.
    On a broader scale, San Diego County and the Santa Ysabel Band of 
Digueno Indians reached a comprehensive agreement back in 2005 that 
paved the way for the tribe to construct a new large-scale gaming 
complex. The tribe's chairman hailed the agreement as a model for 
future pacts between tribes and government entities.
    In northern California, Humboldt, Placer, and Colusa Counties have 
memorandums of understanding in place with various tribes to address 
law enforcement-related issues. In the case of Humboldt County, the 
Board of Supervisors also signed agreements with several tribes 
regarding the operation of a court facility/sub-station and library. 
Additionally, Humboldt County and several tribes have agreed to a 
cooperative approach for seeking federal assistance to increase water 
levels in nearby rivers, and have reached accords with regard to road 
improvements.
    Madera and Placer Counties also have reached comprehensive 
agreements with the tribes that operate casinos in their communities. 
While these intergovernmental agreements provide differing approaches 
to mitigating off-reservation impacts of Indian casinos, each is 
effective in addressing the unique concerns of the community in 
question.
    Finally, in Santa Barbara County, a tribe that completed a 
significant expansion of an existing casino negotiated with the county 
a mitigation agreement to address ingress/egress and flood control 
issues that arose as a result of the casino's expansion. Santa Barbara 
County and the tribe continue to address impacts caused by the tribe's 
development of its trust land on a case-by-case basis, reaching 
intergovernmental agreements where possible.
    The takeaway is that intergovernmental partnerships--memorialized 
by cooperative agreements that address the specific impacts of tribal 
development projects--benefit tribes, counties, and local communities 
and facilitate the fee-to-trust process by helping parties avoid costly 
litigation.

    Question 2. During your testimony, you mentioned your county has 
had successful intragovernmental projects with tribes due to the 
presence of information up front during the land-into-trust process.

    2a) Please share with the committee specific examples of successful 
intergovernmental projects that have benefited from an open exchange of 
information that you were involved in, or you are aware of.

    Answer. Sonoma County has five federally recognized tribes within 
its boundaries: the Dry Creek Rancheria; Lytton Rancheria; Federated 
Indians of Graton Rancheria (FIGR); Kashia Band of Pomo Indians; and, 
the Cloverdale Rancheria. Except for Cloverdale Rancheria, all of these 
tribes have federally established reservation lands, or ``trust 
lands,'' within Sonoma County.
    Three of these tribes have intergovernmental agreements with the 
County intended to mitigate the off-site impacts of various on-
reservation development projects. These intergovernmental agreements 
also address other important issues. The agreements reflect a mutual 
understanding of the importance of addressing the impacts of tribal 
development projects while furthering respectful and mutually 
beneficial government-to-government relationships.
    In the case of the Dry Creek Rancheria, the Tribe operates the 
River Rock Casino near Geyserville, CA. On February 28, 2023, the Board 
of Supervisors approved an amended and restated Memorandum of 
Understanding (MOA) between the Tribe and the County. The financial 
terms under the restated MOA provide for an annual baseline payment of 
$750,000 to offset the costs related to County services impacted by 
operations on the Dry Creek Rancheria.
    With regard to The Lytton Rancheria, the Tribe does not operate a 
gaming facility in Sonoma County, but does possess a reservation of 
over 500 acres outside the Town of Windsor. A tribal housing 
development project is currently under construction, with a winery and 
resort development planned for the future. The County entered into an 
MOA with the Lytton Rancheria on March 10, 2015 to establish a 
framework for government-to-government relations, address the impacts 
of the proposed residential housing development, and establish 
parameters and processes for addressing the impacts of potential future 
tribal development.
    Finally, the Federated Indians of Graton Rancheria currently 
operate the Graton Casino located in Rohnert Park. On June 6, 2023, the 
Board of Supervisors approved an Amended and Restated Intergovernmental 
Mitigation Agreement (IMA) between the Tribe and the County. The IMA 
provides $14,500,000 per year, adjusted annually for CPI, to mitigate 
impacts of the gaming facility in a number of key areas, including: 
law, justice and public safety; health and human services; traffic, 
transportation, and road maintenance; affordable housing; greenhouse 
gasses and air quality; fire and emergency services; groundwater and 
water conservation projects; tourism impacts; and, socioeconomic 
impacts.

    2b) Are you aware of any tribal gaming projects that have benefited 
from this way of operating, and, if yes, how did that benefit the 
project?

    Answer. As previously indicated, the Federated Indians of Graton 
Rancheria currently operate a casino in Rohnert Park. According to the 
Tribe's leadership, the revenue from the gaming project allows the 
Tribe to provide programs and services to Tribal Citizens to help them 
realize their dreams of self-sufficiency. Absent transparency and 
cooperation at the local level and without a mitigation agreement in 
place that offsets impacts on public services, projects such as the 
Graton Casino typically face increased scrutiny and community 
skepticism, if not widespread opposition from local government and 
community stakeholders. Based on our experience in Sonoma County, we 
strongly believe that tribes--and the projects they operate--as well as 
local governments and the surrounding community greatly benefit when 
intergovernmental partnerships result in agreements that recognize the 
impacts of developments projects.
    Additionally, and expanding upon the aforementioned Yolo County 
example, I'd note that the County and the Yocha Dehe tribe did not 
always have a positive and productive working relationship. Rather, the 
parties remained at odds for years over the tribe's proposed Cache 
Creek Casino Resort expansion project. After much negotiation, however, 
the parties entered into an agreement that allowed the project to move 
forward. The comprehensive agreement addresses a number of key issues, 
including the mitigation of gaming-related impacts, including language 
addressing transportation needs, law enforcement, and fire and 
emergency services.

    Question 3. You testified during the hearing that state and local 
governments would prefer a 120-day window to submit comments during the 
land-into-trust process. Could you elaborate further on the benefits of 
a longer comment period?

    Answer. Many fee-to-trust acquisitions--particularly for large-
scale economic development projects--result in significant impacts to 
the surrounding community. Accordingly, it is essential that counties 
thoroughly consider and examine the potential ramifications of any 
tribal development project, particularly as it relates to the health, 
safety, and welfare of community members.
    I'd note that as part of the typical zoning, planning, and 
permitting process at the local level, counties are responsible for 
conducting public outreach and engagement in order to determine how 
proposed development projects will impact the community. In doing so, 
counties must consider a whole host of issues, including land-use 
compatibility, ingress-egress, jurisdictional matters, transportation, 
environmental impacts, and many other issues. This process is highly 
complex and takes time.
    As I indicated in my written testimony, federal law should require 
the BIA to provide jurisdictional governments with detailed information 
regarding proposed trust land acquisitions, not unlike the public 
information required for local planning, zoning and permitting. This 
assumes even greater importance since local ordinances and laws are 
ultimately preempted by trust-land decisions. In order to provide 
counties, our jurisdictional partners, and local communities with 
sufficient opportunity to evaluate potential impacts in their entirety, 
NACo policy calls for 120 days for parties to review and comment on a 
pending fee-to-trust application.

    Question 4. Is there anything else you would like to add to your 
written testimony on how the Department of the Interior's fee-to-trust 
process should be reformed to benefit tribes and state and local 
governments?

    Answer. For 15 years, tribes and counties--along with other 
stakeholders--have been urging Congress to address the implications of 
the Carcieri v. Salazar decision. It is long past time for lawmakers to 
act.
    Moving forward, Congress must pass a single legislative remedy that 
accomplishes two essential objectives: put all tribes on equal footing 
as it relates to the opportunity to have land taken into trust; and, 
establish a fair and balanced trust-land system that takes into account 
the legitimate interests of local governments and the communities they 
serve.

                                 ______
                                 
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you very much. We appreciate your 
comments and your insight, as well as your personal experience.
    I will now recognize Members for 5 minutes of questioning, 
and I will start with me.
    Since the Carcieri decision was issued in 2009, it has been 
unclear how many tribes could be affected by that decision. And 
I think for policymakers it is helpful to know the breadth of 
this particular problem. I am going to direct this question to 
Ms. Isom-Clause.
    Does the Department know how many federally recognized 
tribes would not be considered ``under Federal jurisdiction'' 
pursuant to the Carcieri decision?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Thank you for the question, Chair Hageman.
    We look at these tribe by tribe, so we don't have kind of 
one centralized list that would have all of that. It is a very 
fact-intensive and specific dive into the complicated history 
of the relationship between----
    Ms. Hageman. So, even after 15 years, the Department has 
not yet determined how many of our 574 recognized tribes would 
be impacted by this decision?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Well, I would also say all tribes are 
impacted by this decision, because every tribe is required to 
go through this analysis. Some may have kind of more clear 
facts and some have more complicated facts, but there is always 
an expansion of government resources, tribal resources, and 
risk of litigation. So, everyone is impacted. Some have more 
complicated histories that take longer to wade through.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. What type of land-into-trust applications 
tend to draw the most concern or opposition?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Well, we have we have heard from the 
Supervisor that gaming applications tend to draw more concern. 
But I will note that the majority of fee-to-trust applications 
are on reservation, non-controversial, and it is only a tiny 1 
to 3 percentage, at most, that are gaming.
    Ms. Hageman. But you would agree that the gaming projects 
are the ones that tend to be the most controversial.
    Ms. Isom-Clause. In some cases they are. And when there are 
comments, there is an additional review process.
    I want to separate out the fee-to-trust process and gaming, 
because the fee-to-trust process is an entirely separate 
process. If a tribe wants to take land into trust for gaming, 
there is a separate process to go through to determine whether 
that land is eligible for gaming. That is another comment 
period. There is another NEPA review. So, the fee-to-trust 
process is one opportunity for comment; the gaming process is 
an entirely different one.
    Ms. Hageman. And Mr. Rabbitt, I would like to follow up on 
the testimony that you were providing near the end there. You 
mentioned the success of intergovernmental mitigation 
agreements in California related to gaming compacts. Can you 
expand on how this approach has been beneficial?
    Mr. Rabbitt. Oh, yes, like I said, we have five agreements. 
We have agreements with all five within our county.
    There is one within my district, the Federated Grayton 
Tribe Rancheria, with a large casino. But prior to that casino 
and that land being taken into trust, we did have an agreement 
with the Tribe to identify certain known impacts, 
transportation for instance, and there was an agreement with 
our local transportation authority to make sure that we had 
access to the property. Groundwater was a concern, residents 
around the site had very shallow wells and spotty groundwater.
    So, we had independent, third-party folks come in to 
monitor that groundwater to make sure there are no impacts in 
the future, but it is just those kinds of things that we put in 
place prior that made for a much smoother process and, quite 
honestly, alleviated the concerns around the neighborhood and, 
I think, made the project that much more successful.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. So, you would agree that, with these kinds 
of mitigation agreements, it tends to allow for the process to 
move forward more quickly as the community itself can 
understand what the benefits may be?
    Mr. Rabbitt. That has always been my experience. And, 
again, as an architect, I can tell you that if someone is going 
through and wanting to build something that everyone is up in 
arms with, you are more likely to have a slower process, you 
are more likely to end up in litigation than if you go through 
and actually meet with people prior and come to an agreement 
about what that should be.
    Ms. Hageman. What happens in those circumstances when a 
mitigation agreement cannot be reached between a tribe and a 
local government?
    Mr. Rabbitt. We totally think that there should be a 
Secretarial determination to make sure that those impacts were 
properly mitigated. We just want to be part of that 
conversation. We want to have that opportunity, and we think it 
needs to be a meaningful time frame to make sure that we can 
opine and run that by all the different districts, perhaps, 
that are also going to be putting services forward.
    For instance, in the casino that I mentioned, law 
enforcement was not part of the Tribe's purview, nor was the 
fire department. So, those were important agreements to get 
into place prior to having thousands and thousands of people on 
a piece of property----
    Ms. Hageman. Well, just very, very quickly, the Department 
of the Interior recently updated its Part 151 regulations 
governing the fee-to-trust process. Do the revisions address 
any of the issues that counties and localities have raised 
about the fee-to-trust process over the years?
    Mr. Rabbitt. As quickly as I can, I would say no.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. I will now recognize the Ranking Member 
for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    Chairman Pierite and Chair Bryan, I want to ask a couple of 
questions about the fact that there are issues that were raised 
about the importance of communication, collaboration, and 
input. Can I ask each of you if, in the fee-to-trust 
applications you have engaged in, did you go through those 
kinds of interactions and feedback with local governments and 
with interested parties?
    We will start with Chair Bryan.
    Ms. Bryan. Yes, we have actually engaged with those 
counties any time they have a comment period to go through if 
you put land into trust, so they have an opportunity to voice 
their concerns or any questions they may have.
    But I will tell you from our experience, we have almost 
given back $37 million to local communities. We know what it is 
like not to have much. So, it is important for us to give back. 
And it has always been a goal for me, as a leader, to work 
collaboratively together with the counties, the cities, and the 
state because we are a part of those communities. And if we 
work collaboratively together, and we have MOUs with the 
various counties, and we also have their support of Montgomery 
County, Elmore County, Escambia County, the cities where we are 
located. So, we have definitely improved that communication and 
that ability to work with the surrounding areas.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you.
    Chairman Pierite?
    Mr. Pierite. Yes, Tunica-Biloxi went through the same 
process. Early on, we established the collaboration, as well as 
cooperation, and having an understanding on what gaming will 
bring to not only Tunica-Biloxi, but of Avoyelles Parish, as 
well as central Louisiana, the jobs that we create.
    And this is not only about developing our understanding 
about job creations, it is about providing hope, providing a 
purpose not only for the tribal community, but for the overall 
community, and developing and building that understanding we 
have done at a very early stage.
    And our relationship with central Louisiana of the non-
tribal community is part of our extended family and vice versa.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, and I think that the 
letters of support that you have submitted exemplify that.
    And I think it is really important that these bills we are 
talking about today aren't about what the process should be. If 
I am understanding it, the bills we are talking about is that 
your 2 tribes and all the 548 tribes should be treated equally, 
right?
    Is that how you see the bills that we are addressing today, 
that you want to be able to go through the same process as 
every other tribe when you are seeking to take land into trust, 
Chairman?
    Mr. Pierite. Yes, ma'am. That is accurate. We are in 
support of a full Carcieri fix for all 574 tribal governments, 
and as well as the Acts the Congress, not to put an emphasis on 
the 1 percent that is for the gaming and that is land into 
trust for gaming, but the 99 percent. That is what the emphasis 
should be on. That is where the focus should be on, because 
that 99 percent can be utilized for advanced manufacturing, for 
textiles.
    If you look at the lay of the land over the last 30 years, 
Tunica-Biloxi just celebrated 30 years in gaming. But at the 
same time, during the 30 years, over 11.2 million jobs, 
advanced manufacturing jobs, left the United States.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Right.
    Mr. Pierite. Thousands of textile jobs left the United 
States. Tribes can bring them back.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you. I think that both of the 
tribal leaders' testimony today, which are the most important 
ones that we must listen to, actually emphasize the need to 
take into land for other purposes and this addresses that.
    Ms. Kathryn Isom-Clause, I was just out meeting with Taos 
Pueblo. Will the passage of this bill change any of the laws 
and regulations regarding land into trust for gaming?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Thank you for your visit to Taos Pueblo, 
first of all. I am glad you were able to be there.
    No, this will not change any of the fee-to-trust 
applications. It is only a threshold question of whether the 
Secretary has authority to take land into trust for a tribe. If 
so, then we can proceed through the entire regulatory process 
it takes.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. And I have run out of time, but I 
wanted to just get this $10 million for just one tribe on 
litigation. Will the passage of these bills save the Department 
money?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Yes.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, and I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Carl 
for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Carl. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Bryan, three quick questions. It is rapid fire 
here, so get ready.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Carl. I keep hearing ``gaming'' popping up here. Are we 
talking about gaming on our bill that we are looking at, H.R. 
6180?
    Ms. Bryan. Absolutely not. This is about parity and all 
tribes being treated equally, actually.
    I think, as the Interior stated, there is IGRA that you can 
go through for the gaming process. And we heard from the 
champion on this Carcieri fix, Congressman Cole, that it is 
about 1 percent that is to do with gaming.
    Mr. Carl. Right.
    Ms. Bryan. Less than 1 percent. So, this is not to do with 
gaming.
    Mr. Carl. When you look at Poarch Creek, and I have been a 
County Commissioner for 8 years, so I understand the permitting 
process, I understand your developments on the properties that 
we are talking about here. I just want to say it is always 
first class. You all are a five-star Michelin group. Everything 
you all do is first class or not at all. What you all do for 
our community is priceless. And I am not talking about just 
community, I am talking about the entire state. Most people 
don't realize how many different companies actually have sprung 
from a simple group of folks in Atmore, Alabama that has 
remained simple, and I think that is very important. They have 
not forgotten everyone in the process.
    Could you elaborate on how the Poarch Creek bill will 
enhance the Tribe's ability to serve the community?
    Ms. Bryan. It would actually give us the ability to place 
land into trust for housing, for a nursing home to take care of 
our elders who sacrificed all those years that didn't have 
much. That would allow us an opportunity to meet the demanding 
needs of our community going forward.
    Mr. Carl. And you all do an incredible job. I came and saw 
the Boys and Girls Club situation 2 years ago, 3 years ago. 
And, of course, I have been there for several situations.
    Ms. Bryan. That services over 500 children, and only 10 
percent are tribal members.
    Mr. Carl. Yes.
    Ms. Bryan. It services the community, not just the Poarch 
Band of Creek Indians.
    Mr. Carl. And Atmore is a very small community. It truly 
is, the city of Atmore itself. And I know how you work with the 
County Commission and the city there.
    Can you discuss the relationships the Tribe has developed 
with the county bordering the trust lands, which would be 
Mobile County, obviously, Escambia County, Washington County?
    Ms. Bryan. Absolutely. We have given to the counties 
financially. We have MOUs with them. But most importantly, we 
collaborate together to use our tribal dollars along with the 
county dollars to help with infrastructure, to maintain roads, 
build roads. We have a great relationship with the counties.
    And I will tell you this. The letters of support that are a 
part of the written testimony, you will see that those counties 
are so grateful and appreciative because we do help provide 
fire protection, drug task force, we support the drug task 
force, we are also working with them on some issues that all of 
America is facing, which are mental issues. We are actually in 
the process of helping build, hopefully, a rural hospital. We 
are trying to collaborate together to build a rural hospital 
because with the old one, the maintenance fees are so 
exorbitant. So, we are in the process of actually working to do 
those types of things within our communities and counties.
    Mr. Carl. So, just for the record, I have been working with 
the County Commission there in Escambia County. We were going 
to replace a bridge, Poarch Creek stepped up, they are going to 
actually put the money up with a little bit of help, I hope, 
from my folks. But we were able to shift that county money that 
was earmarked for that, actually, to another road project. So, 
I know the county is happy. They should be.
    And our rural health care in America as a whole is 
horrible. But again, I know Poarch Creek well enough. They are 
not going to let the health in that area go down. And we do 
have some problems there and, of course, the whole county, so I 
appreciate any help you all are willing to step up on the 
health care portion with the hospitals.
    With that, Madam Chair, I turn back. Thank you.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Carl. The Chair now recognizes 
Representative Radewagen for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I would like 
to yield my time over to the Chairwoman.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I would like to get into a bit more 
detail about the nature of the Carcieri fix that we are talking 
about, and I would like to direct my questions to Chairman 
Pierite, as well as Tribal Chair, Ms. Bryan.
    Mr. Chairman Pierite, do you think legislatively reforming 
the fee-to-trust process along with a Carcieri fix would 
benefit both tribes and local communities? And if so, how?
    Mr. Pierite. It would benefit both tribes. But the Act 
today is for a legislative fix, a Carcieri fix for all tribes. 
And I don't want to be on record leaving any tribes behind. 
Everything we do, we have to do as a family. Because yes, we 
are 574 distinct tribes, individually tribes, but we are one 
tribal family, we are one Indian Country. And by having a clean 
Carcieri fix, it will allow us to simplify the process of 
getting land into trust, and bringing land into trust will 
allow us to get ahead of the game as far as economic 
opportunities.
    I mentioned before about the United States being the 
greatest country in the world, but the biggest assets in the 
United States are the 574 tribal governments, because those 574 
tribal governments, working together with a united effort, can 
bring manufacturing back to this great country.
    And, again, I mentioned 11.2 million jobs have migrated 
over the last 30 years. And we have not only positioned 
ourselves to fill that gap, but again, it is not only about job 
creation, it is about building hope for the next generation.
    It is also about establishing passion, establishing 
purpose, aligning purpose for our next generation of workers, 
that they have purpose for it to become who they choose to 
become by creating that hope, believe in that dream, and having 
that ability to put the land into trust, having the ability to 
work with Congress, work with the local as well as state 
agencies to provide economic opportunities for all, not just 
for tribal employees or tribal citizens.
    Ms. Hageman. But for the local communities, as well?
    Mr. Pierite. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. And Ms. Bryan, could you please address my 
question as to whether reforming the fee-to-trust process along 
with the Carcieri fix, how would that benefit both tribes and 
the local communities?
    Ms. Bryan. I do want to be clear that the Poarch Band of 
Creek Indians, we have been very supportive of a national fix 
for 15 years since the decision was made. And we are very 
supportive, and we will continue to be very supportive.
    But Congress has passed bills that address certain tribes, 
so we took the parallel approach to do a Poarch-specific bill 
because the national fix continues to get stalled, and hasn't 
passed for 15 years. So, that is the reason why.
    This is nothing new to Congress. They have passed 
individual bills before for tribes. So, we decided that, now 
that we have the support of our Alabama Delegation and all the 
great things that we are doing, we have diversified our 
portfolio with over 40 different companies that has nothing to 
do with gaming.
    And we have been afforded those opportunities because we 
have worked with our state, we have created jobs, have 
contracts with NASA, Department of Defense. So, we just want to 
remove the cloud that is over the Tribe of uncertainty because 
of the Carcieri decision. So, this will be very helpful for us 
to remove that cloud of uncertainty and provide benefits that 
we need for our people.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon for her 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Mrs. Gonzalez-Colon. Thank you, Madam Chair, and good 
morning, everybody here.
    Deputy Assistant Secretary, to what extent has the Carcieri 
decision increased the need for the Department to defend land-
into-trust decisions in the Court?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Thank you for the question.
    We know that at least 12 Federal court cases have been 
brought, and over 20 cases before the Interior Board of Indian 
Appeals since the Carcieri decision. And as we know, Federal 
court litigation can take years, maybe 2 years, maybe 10 years. 
And the IBIA also can take up to 5 years to issue a decision, 
which can then be appealed to Federal court and be another case 
for us to litigate.
    Mrs. Gonzalez-Colon. Have the tribes reported to the 
Department that they are facing more litigation challenges 
since this case?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Yes, absolutely.
    Mrs. Gonzalez-Colon. And are there any concerns that H.R. 
6180 or H.R. 1208 could lead into unintended consequences?
    And what recommendation, if any, does the Department have 
for either bill?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Thank you for the question.
    The Carcieri fix would restore the status quo that was 
working for 75 years, and it would be returning to settled 
expectations. So, we don't foresee any consequences that would 
not be intended, but merely a settling of expectations again.
    Mrs. Gonzalez-Colon. And you don't have any recommendation 
for any of those bills?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. We just support both bills.
    Mrs. Gonzalez-Colon. So, no amendments to any of them?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. No, no amendments. Thank you.
    Mrs. Gonzalez-Colon. I was reviewing, and I would like to 
know how the Department of the Interior sought to address the 
concerns of state and local governments who believe, whether 
rightly or wrongly, that they do not have enough involvement in 
the land-into-trust application process.
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Well, as we have mentioned here, we have 
recently gone through a rulemaking process with the 151 
regulations. We received hundreds of comments on those, all of 
which were addressed as part of the process, and many were from 
states and local communities about our process.
    We made changes from the proposed rule to the final rule 
based on those comments. We kept in a comment period, a 
notification and comment period, even for on-reservation 
acquisitions, just to ensure that everyone is able to be heard 
when they need to be. If those comments are submitted, we will 
consider them.
    Mrs. Gonzalez-Colon. I will have a question for Supervisor 
Rabbitt.
    How will having more information up front about the land 
acquisition application benefit both tribes and counties during 
the Part 151 process?
    Mr. Rabbitt. I am sorry. Having more information?
    Mrs. Gonzalez-Colon. Yes.
    Mr. Rabbitt. Oh, I think having more information and, 
really, having that communication is vitally important.
    And I do recognize that, and again I have made mention of 
my own county, that individual counties and individual tribes 
certainly do have excellent relationships. You have heard some 
of those examples here today. But, unfortunately, it is not 
universal, and Congress does have a unique opportunity to fix a 
broken process and encourage successful intergovernmental 
mitigation agreements and, I think, also streamline the 
process.
    Honestly, by fixing one word I don't think you take care of 
half of the problem that is in front of you, and I do think 
that our county is a good example of having those 
relationships, having those intergovernmental agreements in 
place, and having successful projects and successful tribal 
projects because of it.
    Mrs. Gonzalez-Colon. You said in your testimony that any 
legislation to restore the Interior Secretary's authority, and 
I quote, ``much-needed, long-overdue reforms in the Federal 
Government, deeply flawed trust land decision-making process.'' 
Could you elaborate on this and discuss some of the proposals 
you believe Congress should enact to reform the land trust 
process?
    Mr. Rabbitt. I think part of that is some of the noticing 
requirements. Even with the 151 changes that were made, they 
are really not transparent. They really don't give enough 
notice.
    We would need to reach out not just to the community, but 
to the districts that might be involved: fire districts, water 
districts, whomever they might be that might be impacted or 
affected by taking that land into trust. They should have an 
opportunity to provide some input on that and for the Secretary 
to take that all into consideration.
    But with the short time period, the lack of transparency, 
counties are sometimes, honestly, the last to know. And we just 
believe that we need to be at the table, having a conversation, 
understanding what these impacts are all about.
    And I will be honest. In our county, and I can't speak for 
all counties, and I know I am here as a NACo representative, it 
is not always about the money. There are those services that 
still need to be provided, and there are the impacts that need 
to be mitigated, and the two don't always go hand in hand, but 
they need to be taken into consideration.
    We have had successful projects because we sat down and had 
those agreements beforehand. It is great that the tribes in our 
county volunteered to do that, but right now there is no 
requirement for the tribes to sit down and do that, or for the 
counties, for that matter. And we just think here is an 
opportunity, and we have been saying this for 15 years as well, 
because we totally accept the fact that the Carcieri is a 
broken system and it creates, unfortunately, two classes of 
tribes, and that is all wrong. We would love to see it fixed, 
but we would like to see it fixed with the additional 
conditions that really encourage that conversation, that 
collaboration, all the things that we talk about that have 
happened, but just make sure that we can encourage that and 
have that be universal across the country.
    Mrs. Gonzalez-Colon. Thank you, Supervisor.
    My time expired, I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Chairman 
Cole for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Cole. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and it is very 
generous of you. Again, thank you for allowing me to 
participate in your hearing today.
    Chairwoman Bryan, let me ask you. And you alluded to this, 
but I am going to ask you to think a little more broadly about 
the total cost that the Tribe absorbed through the Carcieri 
since the Carcieri decision in terms of, obviously, the cost of 
legal representation, but also delayed projects, things that 
weren't done that could have been done. Do you have any kind of 
estimate for what that has done to the Poarch Creek Nation?
    Ms. Bryan. I will tell you, I have with me our Attorney 
General. The $10 million that I shared with you, it is probably 
more than that, I would say, because of the hours that our 
Attorney General, I don't know how many hours she has logged, 
but we have several attorneys that in-house have had to work on 
this to take away from those resources that we needed to 
address internally for our tribal government. We had to pull 
our attorneys off and put them on these cases because it was 
that important to our Tribe.
    And that $10 million, every day that is what motivates me, 
is helping people improve their quality of life and giving them 
opportunity, giving them the tools that they need and 
opportunity for advancement. So, that $10 million would have 
done so much for our community, it would have saved a lot of 
time from our legal department. We would have used that $10 
million, we are in the process of building an elder care center 
where we feed our elders lunch. So, that $10 million could have 
done a lot for our members and our citizens.
    Mr. Cole. And these are costs you would not have had, had 
it not been for the Carcieri decision. In other words, you 
weren't expending these kind of resources before that decision 
in 2009.
    Ms. Bryan. No, sir, we weren't.
    Mr. Cole. So, that is why the system is broken, in my view, 
Madam Chair. It is really a court decision that has caused the 
problem.
    Ms. Bryan. It has cost the Federal Government, taxpayers' 
dollars, too, as well, because Department of the Interior, 
Department of Justice, you know, they have to travel. They have 
to have attorneys work on it, travel to the 11th Circuit. So, 
it is costing tribes and the Federal Government a lot of money 
on these frivolous lawsuits.
    Mr. Cole. Let me go, if I may, to Deputy Assistant 
Secretary, I hope I get it right, Isom-Clause.
    Ms. Isom-Clause, would you have a rough estimate of how 
many cases have been brought contesting BIA trust acquisition 
approval because of Carcieri?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Yes. Thank you for the question, 
Representative.
    Our rough estimate is at least 12 Federal court cases and 
over 20 cases before the IBIA have been brought since the 
Carcieri decision.
    Mr. Cole. And when you get into one of these suits, and I 
know some of them are still ongoing, but how long does it take 
you to actually work through that and come to a settlement, on 
average?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. At minimum, 2 years. We know it has been 
up to 10 years in some cases, and that is in Federal court. And 
in the IBIA it can be up to 5 years for the court to issue a 
decision, which can then be followed by a challenge in Federal 
District Court if the agency's decision is upheld.
    Mr. Cole. And is there any way you could tell us how did it 
work pre-Carcieri and post-Carcieri?
    How much more difficult, if at all, it made it for the 
Department to come to relatively speedy decisions in these 
matters?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Sure. I mean, it is difficult to estimate 
exactly the time because it varies so much. But typically 
through the process we go through title reviews, environmental 
reviews, regulatory reviews, and then we add on this extra 
layer of a legal review of whether a tribe is under a Federal 
jurisdiction. So, that is researching the tribe's history and 
documents, maybe going back to the tribe for more information, 
which can take some months to get through that process. And 
then, as you have mentioned, tacking on added litigation on the 
back end.
    Mr. Cole. I am trying to remember, Madam Chair, and I would 
need to check this out, but the Indian Reorganization Act, I 
think, listed fewer than 200 tribes that were recognized at the 
time. I recall it being more like 130. So, if there are 570-odd 
tribes out there, we put a lot of people that for years had 
been moving land into trust operating under one set, and this 
was precedented under Democrats and Republicans, there was no 
difference, the Secretary was moving along. So, this is one 
where the Supreme Court really did throw a wrench in the works, 
so to speak, and made it very difficult.
    I just want to end with this. I think you could multiply 
what these tribes have gone through dozens, if not hundreds of 
times, that other tribes have dealt with this. Again, it wasn't 
broken before. I don't think this fixed it, it made it a lot 
worse. And we can look at other things, but I think we ought to 
look at restoring what existed and worked before, and did not 
cost tribes huge delays and millions of dollars' worth of 
litigation, and not to mention the uncertainty that comes when, 
literally, you are contested as to whether or not your land is 
actually protected or not.
    With that, thank you again for the hearing. I really, 
really appreciate it. Thank you for allowing me to participate. 
I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Chairman Cole, you make a compelling case, and 
your insight and history has been invaluable today.
    Mr. Cole. Thank you.
    Ms. Hageman. So, thank you for being willing to join us. I 
know that you have other commitments, and in fact, I believe 
you are chairing another Committee right now, as we speak.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Cole. Yes, I am.
    Ms. Hageman. So, you are kind of magical, too, which is 
always nice.
    The Chair now recognizes Chairman Westerman for 5 minutes 
of questioning.
    Mr. Westerman. Thank you, Madam Chair, and to the 
witnesses, and I also wanted to thank my friend, Chairman Cole, 
for taking time out of a very, very busy schedule this week. We 
have three appropriation bills on the Floor, but you know this 
issue is important to him because he took time to come over to 
the Natural Resources Committee to be involved, as he has been 
very involved all along.
    Ms. Isom-Clause, over the past decade there have been some 
that have questioned whether there are standards or limits on 
the Secretary's authority to place land in trust, pursuant to 
the Indian Reorganization Act. In previous years, the 
administration has pointed to its 151 regulations.
    So, my question to you: Are there statutory limits on the 
Secretary's authority to place land into trust for tribes?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Well, the IRA, of course, authorizes the 
Secretary to take land into trust. It is not a limit, but an 
authorization. And then our regulations provide the guidelines 
of all of the factors that need to be met in terms of 
documentation and legal reviews and regulatory reviews. So, 
that kind of provides our limits and how we look at 
applications.
    Mr. Westerman. But can't regulations change from 
administration to administration?
    And aren't these really self-imposed regulations?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Yes, they can change, and the Department 
issues the regulations. So, yes, we impose them on ourselves.
    Mr. Westerman. So, could the Department change the 
regulations and do a better job now than what is being done?
    Or do you think there needs to be a bigger fix by Congress 
for the Department to be able to do their job correctly?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Thank you for the question.
    Our testimony today is focused on Carcieri, which we hope 
it can be separated from the land-into-trust process by just 
kind of knocking out this threshold question of the Secretary's 
authority.
    We did just go through a process to update our 25 CFR Part 
151 regulations, which has taken place over the last few years. 
It has involved many tribal consultations and public comment 
periods, many, many comments that we received from local 
communities, states, and tribes, and we did our best in taking 
that all into account and trying to streamline the process and 
make it more efficient and better overall for tribes.
    Mr. Westerman. Talking about making it more efficient, how 
were concerns from states and local communities taken into 
consideration during the land-to-trust process?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. States and local communities are given 30 
days of notice and opportunity to comment, and any of those 
comments that are submitted are taken into account as part of 
the application.
    Mr. Westerman. I guess it can be a broad range of comments 
and issues. Are there requirements for the Department to take 
local concerns about zoning, land use, or other similar issues 
into consideration?
    Ms. Isom-Clause. Yes, that is specifically part of the 
regulations, that we do take that into consideration.
    And, again, the vast majority of land-into-trust 
applications are not controversial. They are often on-
reservation, consolidating tribal land holdings. So, kind of 
clarifying jurisdiction and making tribal governance simpler 
because consolidating their tribal homelands can make 
jurisdictional boundaries a little clearer.
    Mr. Westerman. Thank you.
    Supervisor Rabbitt, the Department is supposed to provide 
notice to impacted state and local governments when fee-to-
trust applications are submitted. In your experience, what has 
this actually looked like in practice?
    Mr. Rabbitt. Honestly, a fire drill. Thirty days is a very 
short period of time.
    And, again, it is not just the county proper itself, 
because it is also those districts that serve that land. So, 
then we have to reach out to those districts in order to get 
them to be able to give feedback. Like you, we are a public 
body, and we need to take that information back not just from 
staff, but actually from the public. It is their land, as well, 
at that point in time, and getting that information back from 
the boards of those different districts.
    So, 30 days, in my opinion, and I think in the counties' 
opinions, is woefully inadequate. We would love to see 
something more like 120. And I think it is one of those things 
where if you go slow to go fast, that you actually will have a 
better project, long term, if you make sure that you compile 
all the comments thoughtfully and not just rushed in and 
boilerplate it down, or comments that may go above and beyond 
even the scope of the project, but just wanting to cover those 
topics. And I think 30 days is just inadequate, 120, 90, 
whatever. Whatever can be more reasonable in terms of getting 
that information would be beneficial.
    Mr. Westerman. It almost seems like a process where the 
Department moves slow, but wants everybody else to move fast.
    Mr. Rabbitt. That happens.
    Mr. Westerman. Yes. I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes the 
Ranking Member for a UC request.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Madam Chairwoman, thank you.
    I ask unanimous consent to submit into the record the 
Department of the Interior's new land acquisition regulations, 
which I would note were developed over a year of seeking input 
from state, local, and tribal governments.
    Ms. Hageman. So ordered. Thank you.

    [The document is available for viewing at:]

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/II/II24/20240626/117352/HHRG-
118-II24-20240626-SD010.pdf

    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Madam Chair, I ask unanimous consent 
to enter into the record the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act which 
sets the standards for conducting gaming on tribal lands, just 
to clarify that that is indeed a separate standard, and 
separate from the issue of whether all tribes should be treated 
with parity in this process.
    Ms. Hageman. So ordered. Thank you. Without objection.

    [The document is available for viewing at:]

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/II/II24/20240626/117352/HHRG-
118-II24-20240626-SD011.pdf
    Ms. Hageman. I want to thank the witnesses for your 
valuable testimony, and I also want to thank the Members and 
those folks who waived on today and joined us for your 
questioning, as well. This is an important issue that I think 
we need to be addressing these long-term challenges and see if 
we can find some resolution for all of our tribes.
    The members of the Committee may have some additional 
questions for the witnesses, and we will ask you to respond to 
these in writing if they are submitted.
    Under Committee Rule 3, members of the Committee must 
submit such questions to the Committee Clerk by 5 p.m. on 
Monday, July 1, 2024, and the hearing record will be held open 
for 10 business days for these responses.
    If there is no further business, without objection, the 
Subcommittee stands adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 12:24 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

            [ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD]

Submissions for the Record by Rep. Westerman

               ADVISORY COUNCIL ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION

                             Washington, DC

                                              November 14, 2006    

Mr. Brad Mehaffy, REM
NEPA Compliance Officer
National Indian Gaming Commission
1441 I Street, N.W., Suite 9100
Washington, DC 20005

Re: Proposed Approval of a Management Contract for the Expansion of 
        Existing Gaming Facility by the Poarch Band of Creek Indians, 
        Wetumpka, Alabama

    Dear Mr. Mehaffy:

    On October 3 2006, the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation 
(ACHP) received the additional documentation regarding the referenced 
undertaking. ACHP requested this information in response to your 
notification that the National Indian Gaming Commission (NIGC) was 
reviewing the Poarch Band of Creek Indians' (Poarch Band) proposed 
management contract for expansion of the existing gaming facility on 
Hickory Ground, a property listed in the National Register of Historic 
Places. Based upon this documentation, it is apparent that activities 
undertaken by the Poarch Band prior to the completion of the review 
required by Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act 
(NHPA) have adversely affected the National Register-listed property.

    According to the documentation provided, the Poarch Band sponsored 
extensive investigations and ultimately data recovery at Hickory Ground 
between 1988 and the present. The investigations included 
archaeological site identification surveys within the approximately 16-
acre trust property and the approximately 5-acre tract of fee land. As 
a result, a multi-component archaeological site, Hickory Ground, was 
delineated, boundaries expanded, and finally, extensive archaeological 
data recovery was undertaken, including the removal of numerous human 
burial. As we understand, the recovered remains, artifacts, and site 
documentation are in various stages of analysis and curation by the 
Poarch Band's consultants.

    Regrettably, the archaeological surveys and data recovery were not 
carried out in compliance with Section 106 of the NHPA. Since the 
Section 106 process must be initiated by a Federal agency prior to the 
initiation of project activities, it is unclear why the applicant, a 
tribe with a tribal historic preservation office approved by the 
National Park Service pursuant to Section 101(d)(2) of the NHPA, 
proceeded with project planning and archeological investigations. As 
you know, the Federal agency must consult with the State Historic 
Preservation Officer (SHPO), any Indian tribes that attach religious 
and cultural significance to historic properties affected by the 
undertaking, and other appropriate stakeholders, and provide adequate 
notification to the public in carrying out the steps of the Section 106 
review.

    Based on the information provided, there was no Federal agency 
review of the archaeological investigations carried out by the Poarch 
Band; no consultation with the Alabama SHPO prior to excavation of the 
portion of the site on fee lands, and no consultation with any other 
Indian tribe, particularly the Muscogee Creek Nation. The initial 
notification of the ACHP (see 36 CFR 800.6(a)(1)) did not occur until 
after the destruction of the site. Furthermore, there is no indication 
that the public has been notified about the nature of the undertaking 
and its effects on historic properties (36 CFR 800.3(e)).

    In your correspondence, you indicate that the Poarch Band completed 
more than 90% of the archaeological data recovery within the area of 
potential effect for the proposed project. In the initial letter to the 
ACHP regarding this project, you invited us to participate in 
consultation to resolve the potential adverse effects of the 
undertaking. You have also indicated that NIGC intends to invite the 
Alabama SHPO to participate in any further Section 106 consultation, 
and have outlined steps NIGC will take to complete the Section 106 
review process for any areas where there has been no land disturbance. 
NIGC has indicated that it proposes to develop a memorandum of 
agreement with all parties following consultation.
    Please note, however, that Section 110(k) of the NHPA requires that

        Each Federal agency shall ensure that the agency will not grant 
        a loan, loan guarantee, permit, license, or other assistance to 
        an applicant who, with intent to avoid the requirements of 
        section 106 of this Act, has intentionally significantly 
        adversely affected a historic property to which the grant would 
        relate, or having legal power to prevent it, allowed such 
        significant adverse effect to occur, unless the agency, after 
        consultation with the Council, determines that circumstances 
        justify granting such assistance despite the adverse effect 
        created or permitted by the applicant (16 U.S.C. 470h-2(k)).

    While NIGC has provided documentation regarding archaeological work 
conducted to date, we have no indication of NIGC's views regarding the 
applicability of Section 110(k) and no record of the views of the 
Alabama SHPO and others, specifically the Muscogee Creek Nation 
regarding this matter. In accordance with Section 800.9(c)(2 of the 
ACHP's regulations, NIGC must determine whether or not the Poarch 
Band's actions were undertaken with the intent to avoid the 
requirements of Section 106. If NIGC determines that this did occur, 
NIGC should notify the ACHP and provide documentation specifying the 
circumstances under which the adverse effects to the historic property 
occurred and the degree of damage to the integrity of the historic 
property. This documentation must include any views obtained from the 
applicant, SHPO, and other parties known to be interested in the 
undertaking. Within thirty days of receiving such information, unless 
otherwise agreed to by NIGC, the ACHP will provide the agency with its 
opinion as to whether circumstances justify NIGC granting its approval 
to the applicant and any possible mitigation of the adverse effect. If, 
after considering the views of the ACHP, NIGC determines to grant its 
approval, NIGC should consult further with the ACHP and other 
consulting parties to conclude a memorandum of agreement for treatment 
of the remaining effects to historic properties resulting from the 
project.

    Should you have any questions or wish to discuss this matter 
further, please contact Valerie Hauser, Native American Program 
Coordinator.

            Sincerely,

                                                 Don Klima,
                                  Office of Federal Agency Programs

                                 ______
                                 

                       COALITION OF LARGE TRIBES

                                                  June 21, 2024    

Hon. Brian Schatz, Chair
Hon. Lisa Murkowski, Vice Chair
Senate Committee on Indian Affairs
838 Hart Senate Building
Washington, DC 20510

Hon. Bruce Westerman, Chair
Hon. Raul Grijalva, Ranking Member
House Natural Resources Committee
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

Re: Coalition of Large Tribes Opposition to H.R. 6180/S. 3263

    Dear Chair Schatz, Vice Chair Murkowski, Chair Westerman, and 
Ranking Member Grijalva:

    The Coalition of Large Tribes (COLT) is an intertribal organization 
representing the interests of the more than 50 tribes with reservations 
of 100,000 acres or more, constituting more than 95% of Indian lands in 
the United States and encompassing approximately one half of the Native 
American population. We write now to voice our opposition to H.R. 6180/
S. 3263. As an organization representing multiple tribes, we are 
concerned that this legislation wrongfully seeks to benefit one tribe 
and will set a precedent that harms hundreds of others. For this 
reason, we oppose this proposed legislation.

    To be sure, how to address the Supreme Court's 2008 decision in 
Carcieri v. Salazar has generated a good deal of debate and controversy 
over the last 16 years. While many may disagree on how to effectuate a 
proper Carcieri fix, we believe strongly that the solution is not 
singling out one tribe for favorable treatment to the detriment of 
others. The Court's Carcieri decision affects a multitude of tribes, 
and yet this proposed legislation seeks only to help the tribe that 
already has the most resources. No doubt, should this proposed 
legislation become law, the multitude of other tribes excluded from 
this legislation--whose need for a Carcieri fix is much greater--will 
be left at a significant disadvantage. The passage of single-tribe 
legislation will inevitably diminish the political will to achieve 
additional Carcieri fixes, and it sets a precedent that will require 
every affected tribe to seek to address Carcieri through individual 
legislation. There is no justification for passing a one-off piece of 
legislation to help the wealthiest of tribes when Indian Country and 
Congress should be working together towards a solution that will help 
all tribes affected by the Court's decision in Carcieri.

    Second, the passage of this legislation would also set a dangerous 
precedent for sacred sites by rewarding the tribe that has used gaming 
as a weapon to destroy and desecrate the burial grounds of other tribes 
and, in doing so, incentivize more such acts in the future. There are 
many tribes negatively impacted by Carcieri that have not engaged in 
violations of federal law and have not defiled sacred sites listed on 
the National Register of Historic Places. Thus, if any tribe is to be 
rewarded in such an exclusive manner, it should not be the tribe whose 
course of conduct violates some of the most fundamentally basic moral 
codes understood by sister tribes throughout Indian Country.

    Finally, while we can all agree that a Carcieri fix is essential, 
the desecration of Hickory Ground in Wetumpka, Alabama, serves to 
demonstrate why any proposed Carcieri fix legislation must include 
protections for sacred sites located within the historical homelands of 
removed tribes. The heresy of Hickory Ground was shocking and 
demoralizing. It would be beyond shameful to create a law that invites 
the destruction of a Native sacred site protected on the National 
Register of Historic Places to happen again. Thus, any proposed 
legislation seeking to address Carcieri must provide removed tribes 
with the ability and authority to protect their sacred sites and the 
burials of their relatives within their homelands. We all agree that 
gaming is a critical form of economic development that supports tribal 
sovereignty and tribal self-governance. No one wants to stand in the 
way of a tribe's ability to engage in gaming. But there is no need for 
any tribe to engage in gaming on another tribe's burial ground. Thus, 
protections to prevent repeating what happened at Hickory Ground are 
critical to any proposed Carcieri fix legislation.

    Thank you for considering the position and perspective of COLT. We 
hope you will move away from H.R. 6180 and S. 3263 and instead focus on 
legislation that will benefit all tribes in Indian Country, not one, 
and that you will include protection for sacred sites in any land 
legislation. This is the unanimous policy of COLT and we hope you 
afford our views of our broad consensus the weight they deserve.

            Sincerely,

                               Hon. Marvin Weatherwax, Jr.,
                                                Chairman, and      
                          Member, Blackfeet Tribal Business Council

                                 ______
                                 
TO:

  F. Lawerence Oaks, Executive Director
  Alabama Historical Commission
  725 Monroe St.
  Montgomery, Alabama 36130

FROM:

  Creek Nation East of the Mississippi Inc.
  Poarch Band of Creeks
  Route 3, Box 243-A
  Atmore, Alabama 36502

Re: U.S. Department of Interior (HCRS) letter 712

    Dear Sir:

    Application is hereby made for funds from the Historic Preservation 
Discretionary Fund Grant-in-Aid program. This application should be 
considered under Category #1 as the proposed undertaking both assists 
in preserving part of a historic district of Native Americans and 
results in the direct participation of Native American Groups.
    Hickory Ground (1-Ee-89) is of major importance in the history of 
the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. It has supplied many of the important 
leaders in Creek history. One of particular note was Alexander 
McGillvray.
    ``O-Che-au-po-fau''; from the Muskogean ``Oche-ub'', a hickory 
tree, and ``po-fau'', in or among, called by the traders ``Hickory 
Ground'' (Owen 1921:1088). Hickory Ground was located on the east bank 
of the Coosa River, south of the present-day Wetumpka approximately two 
miles above the French Fort Toulouse (Pickett 1962:229,343,357; Owen 
1921:1088; Hemperly 1969:224; Brewer 1955:25; Swanton 1952:162).
    Hickory Ground was an Upper Creek town and by tradition was 
originally inhabited by the Coosa or Abihkas (Corkran 1967:307; Owen 
1921:1088; Swanton 1922:242). It was here that Lachland McGillvray 
married Sehoy Marchand in 1745, and established a trading house (Brewer 
1955:15; Debo 1967:38; Swanton 1922:242). Lachland and Sehoy were the 
parents of Alexander McGillvray an important Creek leader having 
special trade relationships with the Panton Leslie and Company trading 
house in Pensacola.
    With the French established at Ft. Toulouse McGillvray's residence 
at Hickory Ground was the center of Spanish, French, British and 
American intrigue. Don Pedro Olivier, a frenchman in the Spanish 
Service, spent many months at Hickory Ground (Debo 1967:52; Pickett 
1962:413). Hickory Ground was loyal to the British during the 
revolutionary war, and was a place of refuge for many loyalists (Brewer 
1955:25-26; Corkran 1967:307-308). President Washington sent Col. 
Willett to Hickory Ground to encourage Alexander McGillvray to come to 
the capitol at New York for treaty negotiations (Brewer 1955:27; Pound 
1951:58). Hickory Ground was visited by Benjamin Hawkins, the first 
american agent to the Creeks, many times (Pound 1951;111; Hemperly 
1969:224; Owen 1921:1088; Swanton 1952:154).
    During the Creek War of 1813-1814, Otchiapofa was listed as a 
hostile Creek town, and was visited by Tecumseh. Here he was able to 
enlist more followers (Halbert and Ball 1969;68,79,99-100; Pickett 
1962:511). As a hostile Creek town Hickory Ground was not un-noticed by 
Andrew Jackson. The Jackson Trace was opened primarily so Jackson could 
move his army to Hickory Ground (Brewer 1955:15; Pickett 1962:592).
    From the above it is apparent that Hickory Ground was involved in 
nearly all the major historic events in the southeast before the 
removal of Creeks from Alabama in 1836. With the proper techniques and 
data recovery methods Creek involvement in these events can be studied. 
More importantly the effects of these activities upon the Creek Nation 
can be understood. Hickory Ground has the potential of measuring 
changes in the political, social, and economic structures of the Creek 
people in pre-removal times.
    As outlined by the Secretary of the Interior this project is 
designed to meet the general and specific standards for acquisition as 
applies to this particular site.
THE USE OF THE LAND

    Acquisition of the property is principally a protection measure. 
Acquisition will prevent development on the property. All historic 
structures on the site have been destroyed. What is left consists of 
below surface remains. Through proper archaeological methods and 
techniques these below surface features can reveal a tremendous amount 
of information about the Creek way of life in the late 1700's and early 
18OO's. Upon gaining fee-simple title to the land as called for in this 
proposal plans will be developed to minimize continued destruction of 
the archaeological resources. Prior to any type of development of the 
property a scientifically sound archaeological program will be 
conducted to mitigate or minimize effects upon the historic resources.
    The property will serve as valuable resource for cultural 
enrichment of Creek people. The site can serve as a place where classes 
of Creek culture may be held. The Creek people in Oklahoma pride in 
heritage and ties to original homeland can only be enhanced. There is 
still an existing Hickory Ground tribal town in Oklahoma. They will be 
pleased to know their home in Alabama is being preserved. The site may 
serve as an open air classroom where Creek youth can learn of their 
heritage. Interpretive programs can be developed around the vast array 
of history connected with Hickory Ground. The Creek Nation East of the 
Mississippi, Inc. (Poarch Band of Creeks) has already conducted CETA 
sponsored training in archaeological methods for Creek youth. The 
Hickory Ground site will continue to enhance their understanding of 
their history, without excavation.
SPECIFIC STANDARDS OF PROTECTION

    For most cases land in the hands of Realtors and developers is 
viewed from the prospective of income producing property. At this 
location in order to have a commercial development the land will have 
to be cleared and leveled. In order to halt the destruction planned for 
the site and insure against future destruction funds for acquisition of 
fee simple title are requested.
    As the landowner is very much interested in developing the property 
for commercial purposes it is felt acquisition of fee simple title is 
necessary to prevent destruction of the site. The land was scheduled 
for commercial development. Plans for development called for 
construction of Recreation facilities and multi-family dwellings.
    To the immediate east of the property is existing commercial 
property. These commercial properties include a Hardees and local 
restaurant. To the immediate south ajoining the land of the site, a 
contract has been entered into with an option to by agreed upon between 
Aeronov Corporation and the landowner, Mr. W.D. DeBardeleben. This 
agreement is based upon Aeronov's plans for construction of a Kmart 
store upon the property.
    Mr. Gary Skaret and the landowner have plans for constructing 
apartments for low-income and handicapped persons upon the land to the 
immediate west of the proposed Kmart and to the immediate south of the 
Hickory Ground site.
    From the forgoing it is evident that the surrounding area, and 
indeed the land, the site itself, is prime development land and may 
very well be bulldozed and cleared soon.
    The property is in the process of being nominated to the National 
Register of Historic Places. The Alabama State Historic Preservation 
Officer has determined the property eligible and the required forms are 
now being processed by the Keeper of the National Register.
    Project does conform to Secretary of Interior Standard for Historic 
preservation projects. Specific end products of the project is to 
provide protection for a particularly important site in Creek History, 
while providing a foundation for innovative educational programs. 
Hickory Grounds may also be a place where Creeks from Oklahoma may 
return and visit their ancestral home.
    Upon approval of the proposal the site will be maintained almost 
entirely by minority groups. One half the appraised value will be 
donated to Creek Nation Foundation, Inc. in Oklahoma. The grants-in-aid 
proposal is designed to be awarded to Creek Nation East of the 
Mississippi, Inc. (Poarch Band of Creeks). Both are Native American 
groups. The Creek Nation Foundation, Inc. represents western Creeks 
that were removed to Oklahoma from Alabama. While Creek Nation East of 
the Mississippi, Inc. (Poarch Band of Creeks) represents a group of 
Creeks that were excluded from removal and remained in Alabama in the 
Mobile Region.
    Under this plan the property will be jointly owned by both groups 
of Creeks. They will be equally responsible for the protection and care 
of the site. This is an opportunity for the Creek people to enter into 
cultural resource management by guarding and preserving a site directly 
connected with their culture history.
    The significant aspect of this project is the protection by 
acquisition of a historic Creek site by Creeks. Archaeological 
resources, directly related to Native Americans have for the most part 
been managed and investigated by non-Native Americans. This is an 
opportunity for Native Americans to manage their archaeological 
records. Presently on staff with the Creek Nation East of the 
Mississippi, Inc. (Poarch Band of Creeks) is Larry D. Haikey who has a 
Master's degree in Anthropology. Mr. Haikey is well trained and aware 
of the proper management of archaeological resources. He will act as 
advisor to the tribal councils on plans for permanent protection of the 
site.
    Time for complete acquisition of the site is not expected to take 
longer than forty-five days. This time schedule includes time necessary 
for mailing contracts between Oklahoma and Alabama. Both tribal groups 
will have adequate time for review by respective lawyers and approval 
of council meetings.
    The Creek Nation East of the Mississippi, Inc. (Poarch Band of 
Creeks) agrees to the provisions of covenants and letter of agreements. 
They are also aware of the information needed for an acquisition 
Project Completion Report. A detailed completion report will be the 
responsibility of Creek Nation East of the Mississippi, Inc., and will 
be done by Mr. Haikey as a part of his normal job activities, at no 
cost to the Heritage Conservation and Recreation Service (HCRS) 
Project.
    Consultant and technical assistance will be in the nature of legal 
services. The property deed and other agreements will need to be 
legally sound with respects to the by-laws and intents of the 
corporations. These legal services will be the responsibilities of the 
respective tribal groups.
    Mr. John Charloe, Attorney for Creek Nation Office of Justice, will 
handle legal matters for Creek Nation Foundation, Inc. in Oklahoma. 
Mrs. Hollis Geer, Legal Services Corporation of Alabama, will handle 
matters for Creek Nation East of the Mississippi, Inc. Technical advice 
concerning the site as to maintaining its archaeological integrity will 
be handled by Larry Haikey and other archaeologists with interest in 
Creek cultural history.
    Hickory Ground fits in a historic preservation district which 
includes the area of Wetumpka, Alabama. There have been numerous maps 
of Creek sites referenced in historic documents as being located in 
this area (Swanton 1922; Owen 1921). Swanton (1922) provides numerous 
maps of Creek Tribal town locations at various times in their history. 
One, (Appendix A) is partially reproduced for enclosure with this 
proposal, it shows the location of Hickory Ground as concerns this 
project and in the time period for which the site has been dated. As is 
evidenced by the other town locations on the map the area was heavily 
populated by Creek in the pre-removal period. Some of the other towns 
have been located and are on record in Alabama archaeological site 
files. An item of importance concerning Hickory Ground is the immediacy 
of its near destruction. The others that have been located are not as 
close to destruction at this time.
    A matter of great importance about this project is the involvement 
of Creek People through their government in the management and 
protection of their archaeological resources. It can be safely said 
that anthropology and archaeology have had a bad name among Native 
American groups. This has stemmed from the archaeologists being more 
concerned in the research potential of the sites rather than the 
significance as they relate to Native Americans. The excavation and 
research has been carried out without very much returned to the Indian 
community, causing Native Americans to distrust the motives of 
archaeologists.
    The Creek Nation is attempting to take an active role in management 
of their cultural resources. In the winter of 1978 and 1979 the Creek 
Nation East of the Mississippi cooperated with the University of 
Alabama in Birmingham on an archaeological excavation to test an area 
of burial remains. Attention was called to the site after treasure 
hunters removed a couple of burials.
    In the summer of 1979 the Creek Nation East of the Mississippi 
conducted a CETA Title VI training program in archaeology. The main 
emphasis of this program was to train young Creek people in the proper 
techniques of archaeology. It was hoped that some of these young people 
would continue into the field and help preserve Creek archaeological 
resources.
    Destruction of archaeological resources in Alabama adversely 
effects the profession of Archaeology, while destroying the cultural 
history of Creek people. There is an increased recognition in the field 
of archaeology of the need for Native Americans and archaeologists to 
work together in the cultural resource management area (Lipe 1977:22-
23; Schiffer and Gumerman 1977:586). Creek People feel that this 
proposed project would do a great deal toward bridging the 
communication gap between archaeology and Native Americans.

                                 ______
                                 

                        MUSCOGEE (CREEK) NATION

                                                   July 9, 2024    

Hon. Bruce Westerman, Chair
Hon. Raul Grijalva, Ranking Member
House Natural Resources Committee
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

Re: H.R. 6180

    Dear Chair Westerman and Ranking Member Grijalva:

    As the Principal Chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, I write to 
formally submit my Nation's Written Testimony for the record in 
opposition to H.R. 6180. The Muscogee (Creek) Nation opposes this 
legislation for five reasons: (1) the legislation will selectively help 
one Tribe to the detriment of others; (2) the legislation rewards one 
Tribe for conduct that is morally reprehensible and violative of the 
cultural code all other sister tribes collectively abide; (3) the 
legislation encourages other Tribes to engage in similar immoral 
conduct, creating a significant threat that more sacred sites will be 
destroyed in the homelands of forcibly removed Tribal Nations, (4) the 
advocacy for this legislation has been predicated on lies and 
falsehoods, and (5) the legislation would effectively grant a people 
``successor in interest'' status to treaties that an entirely separate 
Tribal Nation signed with the United States. For these reasons, we 
oppose H.R. 6180. The Muscogee (Creek) Nation advocates for a clean 
Carcieri fix for all Tribal Nations that empowers removed or displaced 
Tribal Nations to protect their sacred sites in their homelands.

    The advocacy for the advancement of H.R. 6180 is full of 
falsehoods, and we are providing documentation that demonstrates the 
nefarious and misleading nature of Poarch's propaganda. As detailed in 
this testimony, the land Poarch is asking Congress to confirm as their 
trust lands is the homeland of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, including a 
ceremonial site and burial ground for one of Muscogee (Creek) Nation's 
tribal towns, Hickory Ground. Poarch is not part of the Muscogee 
(Creek) Nation and they are not successors-in-interest to our treaties. 
They descend from individuals who willfully divorced themselves from 
the Muscogee (Creek) Nation in the early 1800s in exchange for land in 
southwest Alabama, where they historically lived. Ironically, several 
of the treaties Poarch seeks to claim as their own are treaties the 
Muscogee (Creek) Nation was coerced into signing with the United 
States, in part, because Poarch's ancestors fought with Andrew Jackson 
against our ancestors. Having betrayed us, they relinquished their 
affiliation with the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, avoided removal, and 
received land grants near Tensaw, Alabama.

    Poarch's attacks on the Muscogee (Creek) Nation continue today, not 
by use of bayonets, but by bulldozers and backroom casino deals. Their 
claims to our lands are both legally and morally indefensible. They are 
not us.

    We hope that by submitting this testimony, we can give a voice to 
the Muscogee (Creek) Nation and Hickory Ground, urging you to seriously 
consider the egregious, immoral and unlawful activities that H.R. 6180 
would condone.

I. The Legislation Will Selectively Help One Tribe to the Detriment of 
        Others

    First, there can be no question that the Supreme Court's decision 
in Carcieri v. Salazar has prevented many Tribal Nations from taking 
land into trust. While trust lands can be used for economic 
development, the primary purpose of the United States holding lands in 
trust on behalf of tribes is to protect, preserve and restore tribal 
homelands, including those of cultural and historical significance. The 
Muscogee (Creek) Nation supports a clean fix to address Carcieri, but 
opposes H.R. 6180 which singles out one Tribe at the expense of others. 
We have spoken to many Tribes who fear that if legislation is passed 
for one specific Tribe--instead of all Tribal Nations throughout Indian 
Country--it will set a harmful precedent that will require Tribes to 
get similar legislation in order to protect or restore their own tribal 
homelands.\1\ This would not only be burdensome to Congress, it would 
create two classes of Tribes--those with the resources to advocate for 
legislation to address the negative impacts of Carcieri and those 
without. Should this proposed legislation become law, the multitude of 
other Tribes excluded from this legislation--whose need for a Carcieri 
fix is much greater--will be left at a significant disadvantage. A 
congressional policy should not be established where the wealthiest 
Tribes get to cut the line with a one-off piece of legislation, while 
the Tribes who need the most help are left stranded. Indian Country and 
Congress should be working together towards a solution that will help 
all Tribes affected by the Court's decision in Carcieri.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Resolutions opposing the Poarch legislation and supporting a 
clean Carcieri fix are attached as an appendix to this testimony.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
II. The Legislation Rewards Conduct that is Morally Reprehensible

    Second, even if helping one Tribe to the detriment of others could 
somehow be justified, Congress should never condone, legitimize, or 
excuse taking land into trust to desecrate the sacred site and burial 
ground of a separate Tribal Nation. It contradicts the primary purpose 
established in the Indian Reorganization Act for taking lands into 
trust, as well as the treaty rights of numerous removed Tribal Nations. 
It would also undermine efforts by the rightful successors to those 
sacred lands and burial grounds from taking action to protect and 
preserve these critical sites.

    The Poarch Band purchased Hickory Ground, a sacred site and 
ceremonial ground of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation in present-day 
Wetumpka, Alabama that we were forced at gunpoint to abandon during 
removal and were subsequently denied the right to preserve, protect, or 
even visit for over 150 years after. Poarch could only purchase this 
sacred site within our treaty territory and homeland because Poarch 
received a taxpayer-funded historic preservation grant. Poarch received 
this federal grant because they promised to protect and preserve the 
Hickory Ground cultural and ceremonial site on behalf of the Muscogee 
(Creek) Nation. In its application for federal funds to buy Hickory 
Ground, Poarch stated that its ``[a]cquisition of the property is 
principally a protection measure.'' \2\ Poarch further stated that its 
``[a]cquisition would prevent development on the property.'' Indeed, 
Poarch told the federal government that if the government gave Poarch 
money to purchase Hickory Ground, then:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Poarch's application for the federal funds used to purchase 
Hickory Ground is attached as an appendix to this testimony.

        The property will serve as a valuable resource for the cultural 
        enrichment of the Creek people. . . . The Creek people in 
        Oklahoma['s] pride in heritage and ties to their original 
        homeland can only be enhanced. There is still an existing 
        Hickory Ground tribal town in Oklahoma. They will be pleased to 
        know their home in Alabama is being preserved. . . . The 
        Hickory Ground site will continue to enhance their 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        understanding of their history, without excavation.

    Poarch proclaimed that ``[d]estruction of archaeological resources 
in Alabama . . . destroy[s] the cultural history of Creek people.'' 
Ultimately, Poarch told the federal government that its acquisition of 
Hickory Ground was ``necessary to prevent destruction of the site.'' 
Consequently, Poarch successfully bid to receive federal funding to 
purchase Hickory Ground.

    But just as soon as the federal government placed our sacred site 
in trust for the Poarch, Poarch proceeded to illegally disinter our 
ancestors' remains and cultural artifacts. After breaking their promise 
to preserve the grounds to create space for a bingo hall, they 
eventually ruined Hickory Ground by bulldozing the site for a 26-story 
multi-million dollar luxury casino hotel and resort. All in all, Poarch 
removed 57 of our relatives from their final resting place. Poarch 
placed their remains in garbage bags and sent them off to be stored at 
a university. Our ancestors have never been returned and many remain 
stored in a garden shed and in boxes at a university because Poarch 
refuses to allow them to be repatriated. All of this was done over the 
strenuous objections of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation and in violation of 
numerous laws, and contrary to universal principles of human decency. 
Poarch has yet to be held accountable for its heinous, reprehensible 
conduct, and now brazenly seeks to be rewarded for their behavior 
through a Congressional act. Although gaming is a critical component of 
tribal self-determination, allowing one Tribal Nation to engage in 
gaming on another Tribal Nation's burial ground flies in the face of 
the protections afforded when lands are placed into trust.

III. The Legislation Encourages Others to Follow in Poarch's Footsteps

    Indeed, enacting this legislation would condone Poarch's behavior 
and encourage others to follow in Poarch's footsteps. The roadmap 
created by this legislation would be very clear to any group of people 
living in the historical treaty territory of a removed Tribal Nation. 
H.R. 6180 would encourage groups of people claiming Native ancestry to 
do the following:

     Step One: Claim to be a tribe based on the fact that 
            current members of the group descend from one or more 
            individuals who politically divorced themselves from a 
            historic Tribal Nation;

     Step Two: Ask for federal preservation funds to buy one of 
            the removed Tribal Nation's historic sites and burial 
            grounds--under the pretenses that you will protect it;

     Step Three: Petition the federal government to make you a 
            tribe (and thus become a federally recognized tribe);

     Step Four: Desecrate the sacred site and exhume the 
            removed Tribal Nation's ancestors to build a multi-million 
            dollar casino; and

     Step Five: Use the millions of dollars in revenue made 
            from the casino built on burial grounds to lobby Congress 
            for legislation entitling you to take more land into trust 
            within the removed Tribal Nation's historic treaty 
            territory with no provisions that protect sacred sites or 
            Native burial grounds.

    The five-step plan laid out by Poarch is immoral, to be sure. But 
the incentive to make money is real, and thus the roadmap laid out by 
Poarch is likely to be repeated by others. There is no need to allow 
Poarch to complete step five of their roadmap/plan. Doing so will 
undoubtedly encourage others to follow suit.
IV. The Advocacy for This Legislation is Based on Lies and Falsehoods

    In addition to having legitimate policy, legal, and historical 
concerns with H.R. 6180, we have grave moral concerns that Poarch is 
disseminating statements that are demonstrably and purposefully false. 
While policy and legal disagreements are common and to be expected 
throughout the legislative process, we feel compelled to warn you that 
the papers in support of H.R. 6180 being pushed by Poarch are 
predicated on lies. Among them are the statements below in a white 
paper circulated to the members of your committee.

        ``Unbeknownst to the Tribe at the time of purchase, 
        archaeological evidence later suggested the presence of a Creek 
        ceremonial ground on property . . . .''

    False. As discussed in greater detail above, Poarch knew they were 
purchasing a ``Creek ceremonial ground'' before they purchased Hickory 
Ground. When asking the federal government for funds to purchase the 
site, Poarch told the federal government the site was a sacred 
ceremonial ground, and that they would protect it. Specifically, before 
purchasing the site, Poarch told the federal government:

     ``Hickory Ground (1-Ee-89) is of major importance in the 
            history of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation.''

     ``The property is in the process of being nominated to the 
            National Register of Historic Places.''

     ``In order to halt the destruction planned for the site 
            and to insure [sic] against future destruction, funds for 
            acquisition of fee simple title are requested.''

     ``Acquisition of the property is principally a protection 
            measure.''

     ``Acquisition would prevent development on the property.''

     ``The property will serve as a valuable resource for 
            cultural enrichment of Creek people. . . . The Creek people 
            in Oklahoma['s] pride in heritage and ties to original 
            homeland can only be enhanced. There is still an existing 
            Hickory Ground tribal town in Oklahoma. They will be 
            pleased to know their home in Alabama is being preserved. . 
            . . The Hickory Ground site will continue to enhance their 
            understanding of their history, without excavation.''

     ``Hickory Grounds may also be a place where Creeks from 
            Oklahoma may return and visit their ancestral home.''

     A trained anthropologist would ``act as an advisor to the 
            tribal councils on plans for permanent protection of the 
            site.''

     ``Destruction of archaeological resources in Alabama . . . 
            destroy[s] the cultural history of Creek people.''

     Poarch acquisition is ``necessary to prevent destruction 
            of the site.''

     ``In order to halt the destruction planned for the site 
            and to insure against future destruction, funds for 
            acquisition of fee simple title are requested.''

    Poarch is telling this Committee that Poarch purchased Hickory 
Ground without the knowledge that Hickory Ground was ``a Creek 
ceremonial ground,'' but that is a blatant lie. Hickory Ground's 
significant cultural status was not ``unbeknownst'' to Poarch. Poarch 
knew about Hickory Ground's significant cultural status, and Poarch 
used that knowledge to convince the federal government to give it 
federal preservation funding on the pretense that Poarch would protect 
it.

        ``Muscogee has chosen to ignore what sovereignty means as it 
        works to undermine tribal sovereignty in its attacks on the 
        Poarch Band of Creek Indians.''

    False. Muscogee (Creek) Nation is not attacking tribal sovereignty. 
Tribal sovereignty is the inherent right to exercise your treaty right 
to self-govern as a Tribal Nation. Tribal sovereignty is not the right 
to lie and destroy the sacred site of a separate Tribal Nation. 
Muscogee (Creek) Nation's fight to protect the Nation's sacred sites 
and burial grounds does not violate tribal sovereignty; it affirms it. 
The sovereignty of Tribal Nations flows from our culture, and when we 
destroy it for profit--as Poarch has done--we undermine it. Indeed, 
Poarch's conduct threatens the inherent sovereignty of all Tribal 
Nations.

        ``A federal district court already dismissed Muscogee's 
        lawsuit.''

    Misleading. While the United States District Court, Middle District 
of Alabama, dismissed the Nation's lawsuit, the Court's dismissal was 
not based on the merits of the Nation's claims, and the case is 
currently before the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals. The District 
Court determined Poarch officials could not be held liable for their 
violations of federal law based on a rarely applied and questionable 
Supreme Court decision known as Coeur d'Alene--a case that most lower 
courts no longer follow since it allows state and tribal officials to 
violate federal law with impunity. There is a good chance the Eleventh 
Circuit Court of Appeals will reverse the lower court's outlier of a 
ruling, and there is no reason to let Poarch off the hook before the 
Nation has had its day in court.\3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ We note that the Department of the Interior (DOI) is a 
defendant in the lawsuit, and further, that the DOI did not mention 
this fact when testifying in favor of H.R. 6180, a bill that would 
absolve the DOI of a claim brought against the agency in a federal 
lawsuit.

        ``Nevertheless. the Tribe took great care to leave the 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ceremonial grounds undisturbed.''

    False. Poarch did not leave Hickory Ground ``undisturbed.'' Poarch 
brought in bulldozers and razed the ground. Poarch dug up 57 of our 
relatives and put their bodies in garbage bags and plastic bins in a 
storage shed. Poarch broke the promises it made in its federal 
application for grant funds and instead of protecting Hickory Ground, 
Poarch built a 246 million dollar casino on top of it. This is not 
leaving Hickory Ground ``undisturbed.''

        ``Prior to the archaeological study, there was no visible 
        evidence of a Creek ceremonial ground at the site.''

    False. Archaeologist David Chase of Auburn University discovered 
the Hickory Ground site in 1968 and due to its archaeological and 
historical significance, it was placed on the National Register of 
Historic Places on March 10, 1980. In its application to the federal 
government for the money Poarch needed to purchase the site, Poarch 
told the federal government it wanted to buy the land because it was 
Hickory Ground, and Poarch intended to protect it. Perhaps Poarch 
believes that constructing a narrative that the burials of Mvskoke 
ancestors were not visible prior to Poarch's digging will somehow 
exonerate Poarch for its actions, but the truth is that Poarch knew it 
was buying a culturally significant and historic site and used the 
land's status as a basis for asking the federal government for the 
funds Poarch needed to buy it.

        ``In accordance with our laws and traditions, any remains 
        discovered outside of the ceremonial grounds were interred 
        adjacent to the site with prayer and ceremony in April of 
        2013.''

    False. First, the entire site of Hickory Ground Tribal Town is a 
ceremonial site. It is not clear what Poarch means by stating that 
remains were ``discovered outside of the ceremonial grounds'' since the 
relatives whose remains Poarch exhumed were buried at the Hickory 
Ground Tribal Town and within the ceremonial grounds, the site Poarch 
used federal preservation funds to purchase. Perhaps Poarch has drawn 
some sort of artificial boundary line around the areas where Poarch 
disturbed graves, but that line has no basis in Mvskoke culture or 
history. Burials were disturbed in all parts of the Hickory Ground 
Tribal Town.
    Second, less than one week prior to the ``burial'' Poarch refers to 
in April 2013, Muscogee (Creek) Nation and Mekko Thompson wrote to 
Poarch, asking them to hold off on ``burying'' Mekko Thompson's 
ancestors until Hickory Ground could consult and provide guidance on 
the proper way to rebury the ancestors Poarch wrongfully exhumed. 
Instead of repatriating Mekko Thompson's relatives to him, Poarch put 
them in the ground pursuant to what Poarch calls a ``ceremony.'' It is 
hard to imagine what Poarch considers to be a ``ceremony'' or what kind 
of ``prayer'' Poarch offered in burying Mekko Thompson's relatives 
without his consent or involvement. Furthermore, Auburn University has 
confirmed--during the course of the current litigation--that not all of 
our relatives have been reburied by Poarch. Instead, several remain at 
Auburn, but Auburn won't return them to us because of active litigation 
and Auburn says Poarch has taken the position that our relatives should 
not be returned to us. Poarch has their billion dollar casino. The 
least they could do is release the collections at Auburn and allow us 
to rebury our relatives and their belongings in accordance with Mvskoke 
culture and ceremony.

        ``The Poarch Tribe voluntarily agreed, without compensation, to 
        preserve and protect the northern 17 acres of the trust 
        property . . .''

    Misleading. The fact that Poarch, in 2017, agreed to preserve a 
portion of the property is misleading because, in applying for the 
funds to buy the site in the first place, Poarch promised to protect 
the entire site. They received federal taxpayer funds in exchange for 
their promise to protect the entire site. Why, in 2017, should they 
expect to receive compensation to do something they promised to do in 
exchange for federal taxpayer dollars in 1980?

        ``The Tribe has complied with all applicable federal, historic, 
        and cultural preservation laws pertaining to this property.''

    False. This is the subject of the current lawsuit, and no decision 
on the merits by a court of law has yet to be issued. But even without 
a court decision determining whether Poarch complied, federal agencies 
noted almost two decades ago that Poarch was violating federal cultural 
preservation laws. For instance, on November 14, 2006, the Advisory 
Council on Historic Preservation (ACHP) noted that ``there was no 
Federal agency review of the archaeological investigations carried out 
by the Poarch Band'' and ``no consultation with any other Indian tribe, 
particularly the Muscogee Creek Nation'' in violation of the National 
Historic Preservation Act. Indeed, the ACHP inferred that ``Poarch 
Band's actions were undertaken with the intent to avoid the 
requirements of Section 106.'' This is not compliance.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ The Letter from ACHP to National Indian Gaming Commission NEPA 
Compliance Officer (Nov. 14, 2006), is attached herein in the appendix.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
V. The Legislation Seeks to Backdoor Poarch into ``Successor in 
        Interest'' Status for Muscogee (Creek) Nation's Treaties

    Despite claiming to be a successor in interest at the hearing and 
in its written testimony, Poarch is not a successor in interest to any 
of the treaties the Muscogee (Creek) Nation signed with the United 
States since, at the time of signing, Poarch did not exist as a tribe, 
entity, or even an organized group. The fact that a group of people 
claiming Creek ancestry organized themselves and asked to become a 
tribe in 1980 does not automatically qualify them to be a successor in 
interest to the treaties the Muscogee (Creek) Nation has signed.
    In fact, historically, the people who today call themselves 
``Poarch'' chose to politically divorce themselves from the Muscogee 
(Creek) Nation. When Andrew Jackson sought to exterminate the ``Upper 
Creeks'' (citizens of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation who had not 
intermarried with whites and who opposed removal and slavery), Poarch's 
ancestors teamed up with General Jackson and assisted in his attempts 
to wipe out the full-blood Muscogee (Creek) Nation citizens. In 
exchange for supporting Andrew Jackson, they were given land grants in 
and near Tensaw. Indeed, the Department of the Interior's 
acknowledgment recommendation and evaluation states that Poarch's 
ancestors fought on the side of Andrew Jackson during the ``Creek 
War.'' See U.S. Dep't of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs, 
Memorandum on recommendation and summary evidence for proposed finding 
for Federal acknowledgment of the Poarch Band of Creeks of Alabama 
pursuant to 25 C.F.R. 83 (Dec. 29, 1983) at 13, https://www.bia.gov/
sites/bia.gov/files/assets/as-ia/ofa/petition/013_prchcr_AL/013_pf.pdf 
(``many of the present group's ancestors, including Lynn McGhee, 
received grants for their land in the Tensaw area from the United 
States for their support in the Creek War.''); see id. at 16 (``the 
lands they chose were . . . close to the Tensaw/Little River area''). 
By agreeing to stay, and by accepting these land grants, they gave up 
all political rights they had previously held as Muscogee (Creek) 
Nation citizens. To be clear, by betraying our Nation and fighting on 
the side of the United States against our Nation, they were allowed to 
avoid the violent, forced removal our Nation suffered on the Trail of 
Tears. Having betrayed and divorced themselves from our Nation, they 
have no right to claim any interest in the treaties we signed with the 
United States.
    It is, therefore, disturbing that H.R. 6180 goes beyond simply 
stating that the Poarch Band shall be considered as under Federal 
jurisdiction in 1934 (they were not). The bill also ratifies and 
confirms all lands taken into trust prior to enactment, including those 
outside of Poarch's geographic area and within the treaty territory 
homelands of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. Should Poarch ever receive 
legislation allowing lands to be taken into trust, the legislation 
should limit that authority to the geographic area their federal 
recognition was predicated on. When the individuals who called 
themselves ``Poarch Creek'' submitted an application to become a Tribe 
in 1980,\5\ they were very explicit in telling the federal government 
that their ancestral ties to the Southeast are limited to the areas 
surrounding Tensaw and Atmore in present-day southwestern Alabama. 
Poarch's federal acknowledgment recommendation and evaluation states 
that the individuals who identify as Poarch have ``lived in the same 
general vicinity in southwestern Alabama within an eighteen-mile radius 
for a time period beginning in the late 1700s to the present.'' \6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Poarch initially submitted its application under the name ``the 
Muscogee Nation east of the Mississippi. Inc.''
    \6\ U.S. Dep't of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs, 
Memorandum on recommendation and summary evidence for proposed finding 
for Federal acknowledgment of the Poarch Band of Creeks of Alabama 
pursuant to 25 C.F.R. 83 (Dec. 29, 1983) at 2, https://www.bia.gov/
sites/bia.gov/files/assets/as-ia/ofa/petition/013_prchcr_AL/013_pf.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    H.R. 6180 attempts to put land into trust for the Poarch Band 
outside of their historical territory and within the historic treaty 
territory of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. Given Poarch's horrific track 
record and atrocious treatment of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation's sacred 
sites, there is no reason to give Poarch carte blanche ability to take 
more land into trust within our Nation's historic boundaries. Indeed, 
doing so would violate the treaties our Nation signed with the United 
States. The United States has treaty trust duties and responsibilities 
to the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. One of those duties is the duty to 
uphold, protect, and preserve the sacred sites our Nation was forced to 
leave behind when we were forcibly removed from our homeland on the 
Trail of Tears. That treaty and the trust duty the United States owes 
to the Muscogee (Creek) Nation supersedes the Poarch Band's desire to 
expand gaming operations within our Nation's homelands and to the 
detriment of our cultural history.
VI. Conclusion

    Ultimately, Poarch's destruction of Hickory Ground in Wetumpka, 
Alabama, demonstrates why removed or displaced Tribal Nations must be 
empowered to protect the sacred places and ancestral burials they were 
forced to leave behind. The destruction at Hickory Ground is 
heartbreaking and demoralizing. When the law allows for a self-
identified group of people to take control of the sacred sites and 
burial grounds that were never theirs, and empowers that group to 
subsequently excavate graves and desecrate those sites, it fails every 
removed or displaced Tribal Nation in America. Comprehensive 
legislation is essential to ensure all Tribes can restore their land 
base without concern for the destruction of their most sacred sites. We 
cannot afford to let the destruction of another Native, historic, 
sacred site to take place. Thus, any proposed legislation seeking to 
address Carcieri must provide removed Tribes with the ability and 
authority to protect their sacred sites and the burials of their 
relatives within their homelands.
    The Muscogee (Creek) Nation stands ready to work with all of Indian 
Country and Congress to achieve a clean, comprehensive Carcieri fix 
that applies to all Tribal Nations and empowers Tribal Nations to both 
restore their land base and protect sacred sites within the homelands 
from which they were forcibly removed.

            Respectfully submitted,

                                             David W. Hill,
                                                    Principal Chief

                                 ______
                                 

                              ROBB & ROSS

                        Mill Valley, California

                                                  June 21, 2024    

Hon. Harriet M. Hageman
Hon. Teresa Leger Fernandez
House Natural Resources Subcommittee on Indian and Insular Affairs
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

Re: Testimony for the Record--H.R. 1208 (Cole), To amend the Act of 
        June 18, 1934

    Dear Chairwoman Hageman and Ranking Member Fernandez:

    I write on behalf of Artichoke Joe's, a California cardroom, 
located in San Bruno, California to offer testimony for the record 
regarding H.R. 1208, a bill with the stated purpose of ``reaffirming'' 
the authority of the Secretary of the Interior to take land into trust 
for Indian Tribes. The intent of the 73rd Congress in enacting Section 
5 of the Indian Reorganization Act and the legal effect of the 
provision have been misunderstood and misapplied. The problem is 
conflation of two very different types of dominion over land, one, 
landowner title to land, and the other, governmental jurisdiction over 
land.
    There is a common misconception that when the federal government 
takes off-reservation land into trust for a tribe, the tribe not only 
obtains title to the land but also gains jurisdiction over the land. 
However, that has never been the law.
    Under well-established principles governing our federalist system 
of dual levels of government, a state has primary jurisdiction over all 
lands within its borders except (1) those lands over which the federal 
government reserved jurisdiction when it admitted the state into the 
Union, (2) those lands purchased by the federal government for the 
erection of needful buildings with the consent of the Legislature of 
the state in which the land lies (pursuant to the Enclaves Clause), and 
(3) those lands over which the state Legislature has ceded jurisdiction 
and the federal government has accepted jurisdiction pursuant to 40 
U.S.C. Sec. 3112.
    Absent one of the three exceptions, when the federal government 
acquires title to land within a state, all it acquires is the title to 
the land, not legislative jurisdiction over the land. The federal 
government is well aware of these principles. A well-known GAO 
publication states, ``Acquisition of land and acquisition of federal 
jurisdiction over that land are two different things.'' GAO, Principles 
of Federal Appropriations Law, 3rd Ed. 2008, Vol. III, Ch. 13, p. 13-
101. The Supreme Court has held that the federal government cannot 
strip states of jurisdiction, calling such attempt an act of 
``disseisin.'' Fort Leavenworth Railway Co. v. Lowe, 114 U.S. 525, 538 
(1885). Thus, the federal government has no power to divest a state of 
its territorial jurisdiction once bestowed. Hawaii v. Office of 
Hawaiian Affairs, 556 U.S. 163, 176 (2009) quoting Idaho v. United 
States, 533 U.S. 262 (``[T]he consequences of admission are 
instantaneous, and it ignores the uniquely sovereign character of that 
event . . . to suggest that subsequent events somehow can diminish what 
has already been bestowed.'')
    This law applies to Indian lands the same as to non-Indian lands. 
See, for example, Silas Mason Co. v. Tax Comm., 302 U.S. 186 (1937); 
and Surplus Trading Co. v. Cook, 281 U.S. 647 (1930). Also compare 
Organized Village of Kake v. Egan, 369 U.S. 60 (1962) [Alaska could 
enforce state anti-fish-trap law on Indian reservation over which 
federal government did not reserve jurisdiction on state's admission] 
to Metlakatla Indian Community v. Egan, 369 U.S. 45 (1962) [Alaska 
lacked jurisdiction to enforce state anti-fish-trap law on Indian 
reservation over which the federal government did reserve jurisdiction 
at time of state's admission.]
    As in Metlakatla Indian Community, most Indian reservations were 
established before admission of the state in which they sit, and thus 
fit the first exception as lands over which the federal government 
reserved jurisdiction upon admission of the state. However, that is not 
the case with lands procured by a tribe today. When a tribe acquires 
title to land that has been under state jurisdiction, the tribe obtains 
title but the state retains its jurisdiction. The tribe has no 
jurisdiction unless and until the state cedes it.
    Although these principles are foundational to our federalist system 
and well-established, the Department of Interior seems to have violated 
them in adopting regulations pursuant to section 5. In 1965, the DOI 
adopted a regulation (25 USC Sec. 1.4) which provides that none of the 
laws of any State or political subdivision limiting, zoning, or 
otherwise governing the use or development of any real property held in 
trust by the US for Indians shall be applicable to that land. More 
recently, the section 151 regulations assume that when land is taken 
into trust for a tribe, whether on-or off-reservation, all state and 
local law is preempted.
    Such a jurisdictional shift was never intended by the 73rd Congress 
and is not consistent with the Constitution. And this mistaken 
application of Section 5 is the root of the problem with off-
reservation acquisitions. The mistaken belief that there is a shift in 
jurisdiction means that taking land into trust upends existing controls 
and existing communities.
    H.R. 1208 is likewise based on this misunderstanding of the law and 
would exacerbate the problem. It seeks not only to allow land to be 
taken into trust for tribes but is based on the assumption that once 
land is taken into trust, the state loses jurisdiction over Indians on 
the land and state laws restricting gambling conducted by the Indians 
on the land are no longer applicable to the land. Thus, H.R. 1208 would 
allow off-reservation casinos to proliferate.
    Before referring out H.R. 1208, we respectfully suggest that the 
committee address this issue and clarify that Section 5 of the IRA 
allows the federal government only to take title to land into trust and 
does not affect the federal and state jurisdiction over the land. In 
specific, Congress should clarify that taking land into trust is not 
intended to infringe on states' rightful jurisdiction over the lands 
taken into trust.
    We appreciate your consideration of these comments.

            Sincerely,

                                                 Alan Titus

                                 ______
                                 

                   UNITED INDIAN NATIONS OF OKLAHOMA

                         RESOLUTION NO. 2024-02

A Resolution in Support of a Carcieri Fix for all Tribal Nations--not 
one--and, in Support of the Inherent Right of all Removed Tribal 
Nations to Protect their Sacred Sites in their Homelands.

WHEREAS, the United Indian Nations of Oklahoma (UINO) is an 
organization established to protect the inherent sovereignty and self-
determination of all Tribal Nations based in Oklahoma; and

WHEREAS, UINO seeks to safeguard the laws and treaties that benefit 
Tribal Nations and tribal citizens and to help improve government-to-
government relations among Tribal Nations in Oklahoma and the United 
States; and

WHEREAS, UINO strives to protect the ceremonial, cultural, religious 
rights and access and usage of sacred sites of its member Tribal 
Nations; and

WHEREAS, nearly all of the member Tribal Nations in UINO were forcibly 
and violently removed from their historic homelands; and

WHEREAS, because so many of UINO's member Tribal Nations were removed 
from their homelands, UINO commands a unique understanding of the 
importance of protecting the right of removed Tribal Nations to protect 
their sacred sites in the homelands from which they were removed; and

WHEREAS, UINO understands the role the Supreme Court's decision in 
Carcieri v. Salazar has played in preventing numerous Tribal Nations 
from fully exercising tribal sovereignty and engaging in economic 
development to sustain tribal self-governance; and

WHEREAS, the passage of single-Tribe legislation to address Carcieri 
will inevitably diminish the political will to achieve additional 
Carcieri fixes, and will set a precedent that will require every 
affected Tribe to seek to address Carcieri through individual 
legislation, including those without the resources to do so; and

WHEREAS, UINO believes that if any legislative fix to Carcieri is to be 
passed, it must be for the benefit of all Tribal Nations--not just one; 
and

WHEREAS, although gaming is a critical component of tribal self-
determination, there is no need for any Tribal Nation to engage in 
gaming on another Tribal Nation's burial ground; and

WHEREAS, a federally recognized tribe obtained ownership of another 
tribe's sacred burial site and violated a written promise to preserve 
and protect this site by removing and storing ancestral remains in 
boxes on shelves to make way for construction of a casino; and

WHEREAS, if any Tribe were to be rewarded in such an exclusive manner, 
it should not be the Tribe whose course of conduct violates some of the 
most fundamentally basic moral codes understood by sister tribes 
throughout Indian Country; and

WHEREAS, passing any legislation that does not address these injustices 
will condone and incentivize more such desecrations; and

WHEREAS, the desecration of Hickory Ground in Wetumpka, Alabama, serves 
to demonstrate why any proposed Carcieri fix legislation must include 
protections for sacred sites located within the historical homelands of 
removed Tribal Nations; and

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that UINO declares that any proposed 
legislation seeking to address Carcieri must provide removed Tribal 
Nations with the ability and authority to protect their sacred sites 
and the burials of their relatives within their homelands.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that UINO opposes H.R. 6180 and S. 3263.
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that UINO calls on Congress to pass legislation 
that provides a Carcieri fix for all Tribal Nations, not one.

CERTIFICATION

The foregoing resolution was adopted by the United Indian Nations of 
Oklahoma membership in Miami, Oklahoma, on this 18th day of June 2024, 
with a quorum present.

        ___________________________   __________________________

        Chief Ben Barnes, Chairman    Chief David Hill, Secretary

                                 ______
                                 
                                 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6170.005
                                 

                               *****

The full document is available for viewing at:

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/II/II24/20240626/117352/HHRG-
118-II24-20240626-SD016.pdf

                                ------                                


Submission for the Record by Rep. Grijalva

                        Statement for the Record
                    USET Sovereignty Protection Fund
    on June 26, 2024 Legislative Hearing on H.R. 1208 and H.R. 6180

    Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Leger-Fernandez, and members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity to provide testimony on 
H.R. 1208, ``To amend the Act of June 18, 1934, to reaffirm the 
authority of the Secretary of the Interior to take land into trust for 
Indian Tribes, and for other purposes.'' This bill would address the 
long-standing inequities caused by the U.S. Supreme Court's 2009 
decision in Carcieri v. Salazar, where the Court interpreted the Indian 
Reorganization Act (IRA) to require a Tribal Nation to have been 
``under Federal jurisdiction'' when the IRA was enacted in 1934 to be 
eligible to acquire trust land.
    USET Sovereignty Protection Fund (USET SPF) is a non-profit, inter-
tribal organization advocating on behalf of thirty-three (33) federally 
recognized Tribal Nations from the Northeastern Woodlands to the 
Everglades and across the Gulf of Mexico.\1\ USET SPF is dedicated to 
promoting, protecting, and advancing the inherent sovereign rights and 
authorities of Tribal Nations and in assisting its membership in 
dealing effectively with public policy issues.
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    \1\ USET SPF member Tribal Nations include: Alabama-Coushatta Tribe 
of Texas (TX), Catawba Indian Nation (SC), Cayuga Nation (NY), 
Chickahominy Indian Tribe (VA), Chickahominy Indian Tribe-Eastern 
Division (VA), Chitimacha Tribe of Louisiana (LA), Coushatta Tribe of 
Louisiana (LA), Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians (NC), Houlton Band of 
Maliseet Indians (ME), Jena Band of Choctaw Indians (LA), Mashantucket 
Pequot Indian Tribe (CT), Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe (MA), Miccosukee 
Tribe of Indians of Florida (FL), Mi'kmaq Nation (ME), Mississippi Band 
of Choctaw Indians (MS), Mohegan Tribe of Indians of Connecticut (CT), 
Monacan Indian Nation (VA), Nansemond Indian Nation (VA), Narragansett 
Indian Tribe (RI), Oneida Indian Nation (NY), Pamunkey Indian Tribe 
(VA), Passamaquoddy Tribe at Indian Township (ME), Passamaquoddy Tribe 
at Pleasant Point (ME), Penobscot Indian Nation (ME), Poarch Band of 
Creek Indians (AL), Rappahannock Tribe (VA), Saint Regis Mohawk Tribe 
(NY), Seminole Tribe of Florida (FL), Seneca Nation of Indians (NY), 
Shinnecock Indian Nation (NY), Tunica-Biloxi Tribe of Louisiana (LA), 
Upper Mattaponi Indian Tribe (VA), and Wampanoag Tribe of Gay Head 
(Aquinnah) (MA).
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I. Consistent Support by USET SPF for Carcieri Fix

    Because of where we are located, our member Tribal Nations were the 
first to contend with 17th and 18th-century local colonial governments 
and distant European nations at the onset of colonization in North 
America. We engaged in treaty-making with both the British Crown (in 
addition to other foreign governments) and the nascent American 
government. Our relationship with the U.S. government involves a 
lengthier history of destruction, destabilization, termination, and 
assimilation than the Tribal Nations of many other regions throughout 
the country. Indeed, our region served as a ``testing ground'' for some 
of the most horrific and shameful federal policies visited upon Tribal 
Nations and Native people. While all Tribal Nations are working to 
rebuild in the wake of destructive federal policies and actions, many 
USET SPF Tribal Nation members are doing so from positions of greater 
and more extensive loss of population and natural and cultural 
resources. In spite of this, our story is one of triumph, as we have 
persevered over the last 400+ years against the greatest of odds and in 
the face of a centuries-long campaign to eradicate our people and 
governments.
    One great consequence of this long relationship with the United 
States has been the steady loss of our Tribal Nations' lands, including 
through often-forced or coerced treaties and other takings. Indeed, 
USET SPF-member Tribal Nations retain only small remnants of our 
original homelands today. As a result, although the trust land 
acquisition authority of the IRA is deeply important to all of Indian 
Country, it is of particular significance and importance to our 33 
Tribal Nation members.
    During the 15-year period of time since Carcieri, the number of 
acres of homelands returned to Tribal Nations has lagged because of the 
burdensome hurdles caused by Carcieri, and the costs to Tribal Nations 
and the Department have skyrocketed--taking away from other important 
Indian Country issues requiring our attention. This is all avoidable 
with a simple Carcieri fix.
    USET SPF has consistently advocated for a Carcieri fix for all 
Tribal Nations in the 15 years since the disastrous Supreme Court 
decision. Included in our advocacy, we have submitted testimony to 
Congress supporting legislation to resolve this issue, including but 
not limited to detailed written testimony submitted in the last 10 
years in 2019, 2017, and 2015, and we have already prepared a support 
letter for this Congress's Carcieri fix legislation. We will not 
restate the points made in that testimony here, but rather we will 
focus on the topics central to this Carcieri hearing.
    It is long past time that Congress cross the finish line in 
enacting this commonsense piece of legislation, which contains the two 
features necessary to restore parity to the land-into-trust process: 
(1) a reaffirmation of the status of current trust lands; and (2) 
confirmation that the Department has authority to take land into trust 
for all federally recognized Tribal Nations. USET SPF extends its 
gratitude to Rep. Tom Cole for his continued introduction of bi-
partisan legislation that would right this wrong, and, once again, we 
urge the House Committee on Natural Resources and the whole of Congress 
to take immediate action on H.R. 1208.
II. This Bill Would Narrowly Correct the Court's Mistaken Reading of 
        the IRA in Carcieri
A. The U.S. Supreme Court's Decision in Carcieri Undermined Congress's 
        Intent in Enacting the IRA

    Section 5 of the IRA authorized the U.S. Department of the Interior 
(Department) ``to acquire, through purchase, relinquishment, gift, 
exchange, or assignment, any interest in lands, water rights, or 
surface rights to lands, within or without existing reservations, 
including trust or otherwise restricted allotments, whether the 
allottee be living or deceased, for the purpose of providing land for 
Indians.'' \2\ The IRA provided that title to such acquired lands 
``shall be taken in the name of the United States in trust for the 
Indian Tribe or individual Indian for which the land is acquired, and 
such lands or rights shall be exempt from State and local taxation.'' 
\3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5108.
    \3\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5108.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Supreme Court in Carcieri was tasked with construing potential 
temporal limitations of the Department's authority to acquire land in 
trust for Tribal Nations under the IRA.\4\ The Court determined that a 
Tribal Nation seeking to acquire land in trust under the IRA must meet 
an IRA definition of ``Indian.'' \5\ The decision in Carcieri was 
limited to a statutory analysis of the meaning of ``now'' in the phrase 
``now under federal jurisdiction'' in the first IRA definition of 
``Indian.'' \6\ The Court held that a Tribal Nation meeting that 
definition must have been ``under federal jurisdiction'' when the IRA 
was enacted in 1934.\7\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Carcieri v. Salazar, 555 U.S. 379 (2009).
    \5\ Id. at 393 (citing 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5129).
    \6\ Id. at 382.
    \7\ Id. at 395. Nowhere in its decision did the Court hold a Tribal 
Nation must be federally recognized in 1934 to acquire land into trust 
under the IRA. Instead, Justice Breyer in his concurrence indicated a 
Tribal Nation may have been under federal jurisdiction in 1934 
regardless of whether the federal government understood it to be 
federally recognized at that time. Carcieri v. Salazar, 555 U.S. 379, 
397 (2009) (Breyer, J., concurring). He also stated that the IRA 
``imposes no time limit upon recognition.'' Id. at 398. Justice Breyer 
explained that sometimes ``later recognition reflects earlier `Federal 
jurisdiction.' '' Id. at 398-99. The Department has confirmed that a 
Tribal Nation need not have been federally recognized in 1934. 
Memorandum from Solicitor to Secretary re The Meaning of ``Under 
Federal Jurisdiction'' for Purposes of the Indian Reorganization Act, 
23-26 (Mar. 12, 2014), available at https://www.doi.gov/sites/
doi.opengov.ibmcloud.com/files/uploads/M-37029.pdf. Courts have upheld 
this confirmation. See, e.g., Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde 
Community v. Jewell, 830 F.3d 552, 565 (D.C. Cir. 2016). It is 
important not to conflate the two terms--``under federal jurisdiction'' 
and ``federal recognition''--which are distinct legal concepts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This decision has since significantly undermined restoration of 
Tribal Nations' homelands, costing Tribal Nations and the Department 
valuable time and money to establish a Tribal Nation's 1934 ``under 
federal jurisdiction'' status prior to acquiring trust land for that 
Tribal Nation, in direct contravention of Congress's goals when 
enacting the IRA. As discussed below, Congress in enacting the IRA 
intended to address historical takings of Tribal Nations' lands by 
providing a legislative tool to aid in reacquiring Tribal homelands.
B. The Pending Legislation is Narrow and Would Fix the 
        Misinterpretation

    H.R. 1208 would resolve this problem by clarifying that, beginning 
when the IRA was enacted, ``Indians'' are defined to include ``all 
persons of Indian descent who are members of any federally recognized 
Indian Tribe,'' removing the phrase ``now under Federal jurisdiction'' 
entirely. This amendment to the IRA would be effective as if included 
at the original date of enactment of the IRA, and it would confirm 
actions already taken by the Department pursuant to the IRA to the 
extent they are challenged based on whether an Indian Tribe was 
federally recognized or under federal jurisdiction in 1934.
III. All Tribal Nations Deserve Access to Tools for Rebuilding 
        Homelands
A. The United States Has a Long History of Taking Tribal Nations' Lands 
        and Resources

    Although the United States has always recognized Tribal Nations as 
inherently sovereign political entities--at least in words--it has 
taken actions throughout time to diminish our sovereign rights and 
authorities, including with regard to our land holdings and other 
resources. It is through this diminishment that the United States has 
amassed its land base, wealth, and power.
    Federal Indian law sits atop the ``Doctrine of Discovery,'' which 
colonizers long used to justify taking Indigenous peoples' lands and 
resources.\8\ In 1493, Pope Alexander VI declared that all land not 
inhabited by Christians was available for ``discovery'' and 
colonization.\9\ The doctrine was incorporated into American 
jurisprudence within the ``Marshall Trilogy'' of U.S. Supreme Court 
cases establishing the foundations of federal Indian law.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ Pope Alexander VI, Inter caetera [Among other] (May 4, 1493).
    \9\ Pope Alexander VI, Inter caetera [Among other] (May 4, 1493). 
(``[W]e, of our own accord, . . . give, grant, and assign to you and 
your heirs and successors, kings of Castile and Leon, forever . . . all 
islands and mainlands found and to be found, discovered and to be 
discovered . . . .'').
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Utilizing the Doctrine of Discovery, the United States took the 
vast majority of Tribal Nations' lands and resources. The land base 
that compromises the modern-day United States of America was, and 
remains, Tribal homelands. The United States' territory covers a 
cumulative area of approximately 2.274 billion acres.\10\ Of this, as 
of 2018, only 100 million acres (4.4%) was recognized by the United 
States as Tribal land, and just over half of that meager amount--56.2 
million acres--was held in trust by the federal government for the 
beneficial occupancy of Tribal Nations and Tribal citizens.\11\ The 
total amount of land held in trust thus represents just 2.47% of the 
United States' overall territorial holdings.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ CAROL HARDY VINCENT & LAURA A. HANSON, CONG. RSCH. SERV., 
R42346, FEDERAL LAND OWNERSHIP: OVERVIEW AND DATA 1 (2020), https://
sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R42346.pdf.
    \11\ U.S. COMM'N ON CIV. RIGHTS, BROKEN PROMISES: CONTINUING 
FEDERAL FUNDING SHORTFALL FOR NATIVE AMERICANS 160, 165 (2018), https:/
/www.usccr.gov/files/pubs/2018/12-20-Broken-Promises.pdf; see also OFF. 
OF INDIAN ECON. DEV, DEP'T OF THE INTERIOR, Benefits of Trust Land 
Acquisition (Fee to Trust), https://www.bia.gov/service/trust-land-
acquisition/benefits-trust-land-acquisition (last visited Dec. 13, 
2021).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The land and resources the United States has taken from us are 
extremely valuable. As of 2019, the estimated total overall value of 
all lands and associated natural resources comprising the territory of 
the 50 states was worth over $34.6 trillion.\12\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ See Financial Accounts of the United States: Table B.1 
Derivation of U.S. Net Wealth, FED. RSRV. SYS. (June 10, 2021), https:/
/www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/20210610/html/b1.htm (reporting 
federal government's net worth of $7.21 trillion in 2019); CATHERINE 
CULLINANE THOMAS & LYNNE KOONTZ, DEP'T OF THE INTERIOR, Natural Res. 
Report NPS/NRSS/EQD/NRR--2021/2259, 2020 NATIONAL PARK VISITOR SPENDING 
EFFECTS: ECONOMIC CONTRIBUTIONS TO LOCAL COMMUNITIES, STATES, AND THE 
NATION, at v (2021), https://doi.org/10.36967/nrr-2286547 (stating 
National Parks generated $41.7 billion in 2019); Natural Resources 
Revenue Data, DEP'T OF THE INTERIOR, https://revenuedata.doi.gov/
explore (last visited Apr. 7, 2022) (select ``Revenue'' in data type 
field, ``All'' in commodity field, ``2020'' and ``Calendar Year'' in 
period field) (totaling the revenue associated with the United States' 
land base and natural resources at $34.6 trillion);CAROL HARDY VINCENT 
& LAURA A. HANSON, CONG. RSCH. SERV., R42346, FEDERAL LAND OWNERSHIP: 
OVERVIEW AND DATA 1 (2020), https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R42346.pdf 
(reporting the 2.27 billion acres of land comprising the United States 
is worth approximately $12,000 per acre for a total of over $27.24 
trillion); BUREAU OF LAND MGMT., DEP'T OF THE INTERIOR, THE BLM: A 
SOUND INVESTMENT FOR AMERICA 2020, at 1 (2020), https://www.blm.gov/
sites/blm.gov/files/SoundInvest2019-6pages-FINAL-083019.pdf (stating 
BLM-managed lands generated $111 billion in 2019); WILLIAM LARSON, 
DEP'T OF COM., NEW ESTIMATES OF VALUE OF LAND OF THE UNITED STATES 1 
(2015), https://www.bea.gov/research/papers/2015/new-estimates-value-
land-united-states.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The federal government has sought to seize control of Tribal lands 
and resources in primarily one of two ways: through relocation of 
Tribal Nations to new land bases, sometimes hundreds of miles away, 
often with limited natural resources and development potential; or by 
authorizing Tribal Nations to remain in our ancestral homelands but 
with a diminishment in size of Tribally-held territory and usually in 
the least agriculturally productive area of those lands. The United 
States' acquisition of Tribal Nations' lands and resources came as a 
result of often forced cessions, coercion, and theft. Later, 
acquisitions came through the gradual deterioration of federal policies 
toward Tribal Nations from those grounded in mutually respectful 
political negotiations to those that unilaterally sought the outright 
taking of our lands and resources, assimilation of our people, and 
termination of Tribal sovereignty and culture.
    Over time, the original understandings of Tribal sovereignty 
recognized in the U.S. Constitution were maligned by federal power 
positioning and the insidious expansion of the philosophical 
underpinnings of the Doctrine of Discovery into American jurisprudence. 
For example, the U.S. Supreme Court wrongly came to interpret the 
Indian Commerce Clause in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution to 
mean that Congress has so-called ``plenary power'' over Indian affairs 
to act as it sees fit with regard to Tribal Nations and our rights.\13\ 
This concept was neither intended nor advanced in the Constitution or 
by its drafters, but rather it is a legal fiction created by the 
colonizer's own courts to facilitate taking Tribal Nations' lands and 
resources and prevent our rightful exercise of inherent 
sovereignty.\14\ As an outgrowth, according to Supreme Court precedent 
that has evolved to serve the interests of the United States as 
colonizer, even Tribal homelands and other rights protected via 
treaties may be unilaterally abolished if done so clearly and 
explicitly by Congress.\15\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \13\ See, e.g., Cotton Petroleum Corp. v. New Mexico, 490 U.S. 
163,192 (1989) (citations omitted) (``[T]he central function of the 
Indian Commerce Clause is to provide Congress with plenary power to 
legislate in the field of Indian affairs.''); Lone Wolf v. Hitchcock, 
187 U.S. 553, 565 (1903) (``Plenary authority over the tribal relations 
of the Indians has been exercised by Congress from the beginning . . . 
.'').
    \14\ See Haaland v. Brackeen, 599 U.S. 255, 318-331 (2023) 
(Gorsuch, J., concurring).
    \15\ See, e.g., Minnesota v. Mille Lacs Band of Chippewa Indians, 
526 U.S. 172, 202 (1999) (citation omitted) (``Congress may abrogate 
Indian treaty rights, but it must clearly express its intent to do so . 
. . .''); Washington v. Wash. State Com. Passenger Fishing Vessel 
Ass'n, 443 U.S. 658, 690 (1979) (``Absent explicit statutory language, 
we have been extremely reluctant to find congressional abrogation of 
treaty rights.''); United States v. Santa Fe Pac. R.R. Co., 314 U.S. 
339, 353-54 (1941) (requiring a ``clear and plain indication'' of 
congressional intent to extinguish Tribal rights, as ``an 
extinguishment cannot be lightly implied in view of the avowed 
solicitude of the Federal Government for the welfare of its Indian 
wards'').
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Today, the territorial jurisdiction of Tribal Nations is confined 
to a mixture of reservation, restricted fee, and trust land.\16\ We are 
forced to operate within the federally imposed Tribal land system 
(i.e., reservation and trust land held for our ``beneficial 
occupancy''), but our interests and practices extend beyond these 
boundaries. For instance, Tribal Nations are intimately tied to 
countless sacred and culturally significant sites whose importance 
almost defies comprehension. They hold the bones of our ancestors, 
connect us to our origin stories, are sites of ceremony and spiritual 
presence, and grow our medicinal plants and traditional foods, and, in 
some cases, the places themselves are alive and deeply respected as 
such. Yet, Tribal Nations continue to fight to preserve our interests 
beyond the reservation system and to regain our stolen lands, which are 
central to our existence as peoples and as governments in service to 
our communities. All the while, the United States has profited from the 
vast natural resources and essential environmental, agricultural, and 
cultural knowledge that Tribal Nations have cultivated over countless 
generations of intimate connection to our ancestral lands.\17\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \16\ See, e.g., U.S. COMM'N ON CIV. RIGHTS, BROKEN PROMISES: 
CONTINUING FEDERAL FUNDING SHORTFALL FOR NATIVE AMERICANS 165 (2018), 
https://www.usccr.gov/files/pubs/2018/12-20-Broken-Promises.pdf.
    \17\ See, e.g., TEK vs Western Science, NAT'L PARK SERV., https://
www.nps.gov/subjects/tek/tek-vs-western-science.htm (last visited Apr. 
7, 2022) (collecting studies on the traditional ecological knowledge, 
or ``TEK,'' of Indigenous peoples).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Against this historical and ongoing backdrop, the unjust nature of 
the Carcieri decision becomes even more clear.
B. Congress Enacted the IRA to Rebuild Tribal Homelands

    The IRA, enacted in 1934,\18\ was designed in part to provide 
powerful tools to protect and rebuild Tribal Nations' land bases 
following nearly 200 years of systematic dispossession, from which 
Indian Country is still reeling, so that Tribal Nations may exercise 
jurisdiction over our land and provide for our people.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \18\ Indian Reorganization Act of 1934, Pub. L. No. 73-383, 48 
Stat. 984 (codified as amended at 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5101 et seq.).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A central feature of the IRA intended to strengthen Tribal Nation 
self-government and self-sufficiency was Section 5, discussed above and 
interpreted in Carcieri, aimed at rebuilding Tribal Nations' land 
bases.\19\ Additionally, in order to maintain and protect lands already 
held for Tribal Nations, the IRA also prohibited any further allotment 
of reservation lands,\20\ extended indefinitely the periods of trust or 
restrictions on individual Indians' trust lands,\21\ provided for the 
restoration of surplus unallotted lands to Tribal Nation ownership,\22\ 
and prohibited any transfer of restricted Tribal Nations' or individual 
Indians' lands, with limited exceptions, other than to the Tribal 
Nation or by inheritance.\23\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \19\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5108.
    \20\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5101.
    \21\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5102.
    \22\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5103(a).
    \23\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5107.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Congressional representatives who debated and discussed enactment 
of the IRA uniformly understood that one of the main purposes of the 
IRA was to provide a mechanism whereby the Department could acquire 
land into trust for Tribal Nations.\24\ Congress designed the IRA not 
only to ``prevent further loss of land'' but also to acquire additional 
land for Tribal Nations, as congressional representatives understood 
``prevention is not enough'' to undo the problems caused by past 
federal Indian law and policy.\25\ The Supreme Court later emphasized 
that Congress understood when enacting the IRA that the goal of self-
government for Tribal Nations could not be met without ``put[ting] a 
halt to the loss of tribal lands.'' \26\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \24\ See e.g., H.R. 7902, Rep. No. 1804, at 6, 73d Cong. 2d sess. 
(May 28, 1934) (Submitted by Rep. Howard); 73rd Cong. Rec. 11125 (June 
12, 1934) (Statement of Sen. Thomas); 73rd Cong. Rec. 9268 (May 22, 
1934) (Statement of Rep. Hastings).
    \25\ See 73rd Cong. Rec. 11727 (June 15, 1934) (Statement of Rep. 
Howard); see also To Grant To Indians Living Under Federal Tutelage The 
Freedom To Organization For Purposes Of Local Self-Government And 
Economic Enterprise, 73rd Cong. 59 (1934) (Statement by Commissioner 
Collier).
    \26\ Mescalero Apache Tribe v. Jones, 411 U.S. 145, 151 (1973).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. Congress Should Fix Carcieri To Benefit All Tribal Nations and to 
        Carry Forward Its Own Mandate to Treat Federally Recognized 
        Tribal Nations Equally

    The Court's decision in Carcieri undermines Congress's intent in 
the IRA to right past wrongs by providing tools to rebuild homelands. 
The burdens of the Carcieri decision impact all Tribal Nations. 
Removing the burdensome process of receiving a positive Carcieri 
determination from the Department before acquiring land into trust will 
benefit all Tribal Nations and further Congress's original goals when 
it enacted the IRA in 1934.
    Additionally, Congress made clear when it amended the IRA in 1994 
to add the ``privileges and immunities'' clauses that departments and 
agencies of the federal government must not make any decisions ``with 
respect to a federally recognized Indian tribe that classifies, 
enhances, or diminishes the privileges and immunities available to the 
Indian tribe relative to other federally recognized tribes by virtue of 
their status as Indian tribes.'' \27\ We call upon Congress to carry 
its own mandate forward by removing barriers so that all federally 
recognized Tribal Nations may utilize the benefits of the trust 
acquisition provisions of the IRA.
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    \27\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5123(f); see also 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5123(g).
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IV. Tribal Nations Acquire Land into Trust So That We May Exercise 
        Jurisdiction Over Our Lands, Not to Establish Casinos Wherever 
        We Acquire Trust Land
A. United States Federal Indian law requires Tribal Nations to Request 
        the U.S. Hold Title to Our Lands in Trust so We May Exercise 
        Jurisdiction Over Them

    Territorial jurisdiction is a bedrock principle of sovereignty, and 
Tribal Nations must exercise such jurisdiction in order to fully 
implement the inherent sovereignty as self-governing political entities 
that we possess and to serve our people. Just as states exercise 
jurisdiction over their land, Tribal Nations must also exercise 
jurisdiction, thereby promoting government fairness and parity between 
state governments and Tribal Nation governments.
    However, the legal doctrines that have developed through federal 
Indian law hamstring Tribal Nations' exercise of jurisdiction over our 
own territories. Tribal Nations are generally recognized to have 
jurisdiction--albeit limited--over our ``Indian Country.'' \28\ While 
Indian Country includes lands within a Tribal Nation's reservation,\29\ 
Tribal Nations seeking to reclaim territorial jurisdiction over land 
must often do so through the arduous and protracted process of trust 
acquisition.\30\ Yet, even trust acquisition is paternalistic, in that 
it requires the federal government to hold title for the benefit of the 
Tribal Nation as a ``beneficial occupant.'' \31\
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    \28\ See, e.g., 25 U.S.C. Sec. 1304.
    \29\ 18 U.S.C. Sec. 1151.
    \30\ See Oklahoma Tax Comm'n v. Citizen Band Potawatomi Indian 
Tribe, 498 U.S. 505, 511 (1991).
    \31\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5108.
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    At base, a Tribal Nation's request to the United States to take 
land into trust for the Tribal Nation's benefit is simply a common 
prerequisite under the United States' own laws that allows a Tribal 
Nation to exercise its own sovereign powers over its lands and people 
to keep them safe--and even that exercise of jurisdiction is still very 
limited. Tribal Nations' trust acquisition requests are far from 
nefarious, and instead they are a simple attempt to take our rightful 
place in the American family of governments and work within the 
restrictive framework set out for us by United States courts and laws.
B. Acquiring Land Into Trust Does Not a Casino Make

    The trust acquisition process under the IRA and the Department's 25 
C.F.R. Part 151 (Part 151) implementing regulations and guidance is 
onerous, even if one removes the current requirement to submit evidence 
to demonstrate a Tribal Nation was ``under federal jurisdiction'' in 
1934 as required by Carcieri. This trust acquisition process is 
separate and apart from the process spelled out in the Indian Gaming 
Regulatory Act (IGRA) and the Department's 25 C.F.R. Part 292 (Part 
292) implementing regulations for establishing that land is eligible 
for gaming.
    The Department's Part 151 process is arduous, time-consuming, 
costly, and extremely rigorous for the Department as well as Tribal 
Nations, and neither undertakes a trust acquisition application 
lightly.\32\ Included as one of many hurdles within the Department's 
analysis of the criteria under Part 151 is a legal determination of 
whether the Department has statutory authority for the trust 
acquisition.\33\ At present, as part of this determination when the 
trust acquisition is to take place under the IRA, the Department 
conducts a legal analysis regarding whether the acquisition complies 
with the Supreme Court's interpretation of the IRA in Carcieri. This 
legal examination involves a fact-specific review of a Tribal Nation's 
and its people's relationships with the United States throughout 
history.\34\ The Department consults heavily with the Office of the 
Solicitor regarding this analysis, and a Tribal Nation submits a 
significant amount of evidence to show it meets the legal standard of 
having been under federal jurisdiction in 1934.
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    \32\ See Acquisition of Title to Land Held in Fee or Restricted Fee 
Status (Fee-to-Trust Handbook) (June 28, 2016), available at https://
www.bia.gov/sites/default/files/dup/assets/public/raca/handbook/pdf/
Acquisition_of_Title_to_Land_Held_in_Fee_or_Restricted_Fee_Status_50_OIM
T.pdf.
    \33\ 25 C.F.R. Sec. 151.8(a)(3).
    \34\ 25 C.F.R. Sec. 151.4; Memorandum from Solicitor to Secretary 
re The Meaning of ``Under Federal Jurisdiction'' for Purposes of the 
Indian Reorganization Act, 23-26 (Mar. 12, 2014), available at https://
www.doi.gov/sites/doi.opengov.ibmcloud.com/files/uploads/M-37029.pdf.
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    However, when a Tribal Nation seeks to game on land, there are 
completely separate criteria and procedures that must be met under IGRA 
and Part 292.\35\ The general rule under IGRA is that gaming is 
prohibited on land acquired into trust after IGRA was enacted in 
1988.\36\ Thus, as a starting point, land taken into trust now is not 
eligible for gaming. There are very limited instances when the 
prohibition does not apply, including when the trust land is within or 
contiguous to a Tribal Nation's 1988 reservation \37\ or certain former 
reservation land,\38\ when lands qualify for an ``equal footing'' 
exception available to Tribal Nations,\39\ or when the state's governor 
is involved in the decision to permit gaming under the ``two-part'' 
exception.\40\ These narrow allowances are meant to either keep gaming 
contained to a Tribal Nation's reservation as it existed when IGRA was 
enacted or to put Tribal Nations who suffered especially difficult 
inequities on equal footing with other Tribal Nations. The ``two-part'' 
exception, while less limited by a Tribal Nation's ties to land, is 
only possible when a state is supportive of the gaming.
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    \35\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 2719; 25 C.F.R. Part 292.
    \36\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 2719(a).
    \37\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 2719(a)(1).
    \38\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 2719(a)(2).
    \39\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 2719(b)(1)(B).
    \40\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 2719(b)(1)(A).
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    Each exemption or exception to the general gaming prohibition 
requires submitting significant amounts of evidence to the Department 
to demonstrate the land meets the very high legal standards to be 
eligible for gaming under IGRA and Part 292. And the starting point of 
the analysis is the general rule that the newly-acquired trust land is 
not eligible for gaming because it was acquired after IGRA's enactment.
    The Department makes a gaming eligibility determination if a Tribal 
Nation's trust acquisition states it seeks to acquire the land for the 
purpose of gaming, and therefore the record of decision to acquire land 
into trust for the purpose of gaming will encompass both the IRA trust 
acquisition decision and the IGRA gaming eligibility decision. Even so, 
it is often a completely different attorney in the Department's Office 
of the Solicitor conducting the gaming eligibility determination under 
IGRA and Part 292 than the attorney conducting the trust acquisition 
determination under the IRA and Part 151. Should a Tribal Nation later 
decide to game on land it has acquired into trust, the National Indian 
Gaming Commission rather than the Department makes the gaming 
eligibility determination under the standards of IGRA and Part 292, 
often through approval of a gaming ordinance, but the legal standards 
and evidentiary burdens remain just as high.
    Any concern that a Tribal Nation acquiring land anywhere into trust 
will automatically be able to game on that land is not grounded in 
reality or truth, but this misinformation is being used as a fear 
tactic to the uninformed ear. The process of receiving approval to game 
on land acquired into trust is extremely burdensome, costly, and 
difficult.
    Indeed, as Deputy Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs Kathryn 
Isom-Clause explained during the hearing, only a very small 
percentage--about one to three percent at most--of trust acquisition 
requests are made for the purpose of gaming. Most others are made for 
the simple need to establish territorial jurisdiction, as described 
above.
V. Tribal Nations May Choose to Exercise Our Sovereign Authority to 
        Enter Into Cooperative Agreements with States, But This Must Be 
        Our Choice

    There are many positive effects of Tribal Nations entering into 
cooperative agreements with local governments, including related to 
provision of emergency services, and many Tribal Nations do enter into 
such agreements. By investing our own resources in state and local 
governments' services, we are able to help ensure the quality of 
services. However, we stress that it is imperative such agreements are 
not a prerequisite to acquisition of trust land.
    There is no language within the IRA that supports such a 
requirement.\41\ And, for the limited percent of trust acquisitions 
that are for gaming purposes, IGRA specifically prohibits states from 
imposing any tax, fee, charge, or other assessment upon Tribal 
Nations.\42\
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    \41\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5108.
    \42\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 2710(d)(4).
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    Instead, Congress understood when it enacted the IRA that returning 
Tribal Nations' lands to our territorial ownership, control, and 
jurisdiction may have some negative impacts on surrounding state and 
local governments. However, the IRA's trust acquisition provision was 
meant to undo past unjust and ineffective federal Indian laws and 
policies that often benefited non-Indians. In enacting the IRA, 
Congress upheld its trust and treaty obligations to Tribal Nations by 
prioritizing our interests, even if state and local governments may 
occasionally experience side effects stemming from its application, 
including a loss of jurisdiction or tax revenue.\43\ In fact, Congress 
noted in Section 5 of the IRA that lands acquired into trust ``shall be 
exempt from State and local taxation''--thereby stating with clarity 
its understanding that local interests may be harmed but that such harm 
is nonetheless necessary.\44\ Additionally, prior to enactment, 
congressional members discussed in great detail the resulting removal 
of trust land from state taxation, knowingly moving forward with 
enactment.\45\
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    \43\ Since 1977, the Department has issued billions of dollars in 
Payments in Lieu of Taxes (PILT) to local governments that help offset 
losses in property taxes due to the existence of nontaxable federal 
lands within their boundaries. However, while PILT payments are made 
for lands administered by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, National 
Park Service, Fish and Wildlife Service, and Forest Service (part of 
the U.S. Department of Agriculture) and for Federal water projects and 
some military installations, lands held in trust for Tribal Nations are 
not currently eligible. USET SPF believes that PILT (or a PILT-like 
mechanism) for lands put into trust could help remove opposition to the 
restoration of Tribal homelands while also easing the perceived burdens 
of and impacts to local government as a result of lost tax revenue.
    \44\ 25 U.S.C. Sec. 5108.
    \45\ See, e.g., 73rd Cong. Rec. 9268 (Daily ed. May 22, 1934) 
(Statement of Rep. Hastings); To Grant To Indians Living Under Federal 
Tutelage The Freedom To Organization For Purposes Of Local Self-
Government And Economic Enterprise, 73rd Cong. 28 (1934) (Statement by 
Commissioner Collier).
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    The Department has built into Part 151 procedural mechanisms to 
consider local government interests and provide those governments 
commenting opportunities. For trust acquisitions pursuant to the IRA, 
the Department must notify the state and local governments having 
regulatory jurisdiction over the land to be acquired and consider their 
feedback.\46\ Each notified party is given 30 days to provide written 
comments regarding potential impacts on regulatory jurisdiction, real 
property taxes, and special assessments.\47\ Part 151 also calls for 
compliance with NEPA.\48\ As part of its Environmental Compliance 
Review under NEPA, the Department provides state and local governments 
with an extensive opportunity to comment and then considers comments 
received. These commenting opportunities and commenting periods are 
more than sufficient, especially when considering that no commenting 
opportunity is provided to Tribal Nations when states take actions that 
affect us.
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    \46\ 25 C.F.R. Sec. Sec. 151.9(d), 151.10(d), 151.11(c), 151.12(d).
    \47\ 25 C.F.R. Sec. Sec. 151.9(d), 151.10(d), 151.11(c), 151.12(d).
    \48\ 25 C.F.R. Sec. Sec. 151.8(a)(5), 151.15.
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    Rather than focusing on the bad things states and local governments 
fear might happen if Tribal Nations acquire our land into trust, we 
should be focusing on all the good that does happen when Tribal Nations 
have success in rebuilding our homelands. USET SPF does not dismiss the 
fact that trust land acquisition can have a range of impacts on local 
communities in the area in which the land is located--but it should not 
be forgotten that these are often the same communities that benefited 
by gaining control of Tribal Nations' lands as a result of policies the 
IRA was intended to reverse. And it should be noted that, when Tribal 
Nations are able to exercise jurisdiction over our lands, surrounding 
communities and the United States as a whole benefit from the economic 
prosperity generated. Additionally, many Tribal Nations enter into 
agreements whereby we provide emergency and other essential services 
not just to our own lands but also to surrounding communities--seeking 
to ensure the safety of all.
VI. Conclusion

    USET SPF thanks the Subcommittee for taking the time to conduct 
this oversight hearing. The importance of the IRA and its trust 
acquisition authority to Tribal Nations cannot be overstated. Full and 
equitable access to the IRA's trust acquisition authority is absolutely 
fundamental to our ability to thrive as vibrant, healthy, self-
sufficient governments within the United States. The United States took 
an important step in the right direction when it enacted the IRA to 
help restore Tribal Nations' stolen homelands, and Congress must act 
now to remove the faulty barrier to the IRA's implementation erected by 
the Supreme Court's decision in Carcieri. USET SPF hopes this testimony 
has been helpful in illuminating that the IRA's underlying goals and 
the tools it gave us must be protected and strengthened as we continue 
to improve federal Indian law and policy and, through it, the lives of 
our people.

                                 [all]