[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]






                                 


 
 WEAPONIZING FEDERAL RESOURCES: EXPOSING THE SBA'S VOTER REGISTRATION 
                                EFFORTS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                      COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                             UNITED STATES
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                              HEARING HELD
                              JUNE 4, 2024

                               __________

         [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                
                               

            Small Business Committee Document Number 118-053
             Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
             
             
                            ______

             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 55-972             WASHINGTON : 2024         
             
             
      
             
             
             
             
                   HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

                    ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
                      BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
                        PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                        DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                         BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                         MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
                          TRACEY MANN, Kansas
                           JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
                        MARC MOLINARO, New York
                         MARK ALFORD, Missouri
                           ELI CRANE, Arizona
                          AARON BEAN, Florida
                           WESLEY HUNT, Texas
                         NICK LALOTA, New York
                          CELESTE MALOY, Utah
               NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
                          JARED GOLDEN, Maine
                        DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
                          GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
                  MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington
                        SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan
                       MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
                       HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
                          JUDY CHU, California
                         SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
                      CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire

                  Ben Johnson, Majority Staff Director
                 Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director
                            C O N T E N T S

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Roger Williams..............................................     1
Hon. Nydia Velazquez.............................................     2

                               WITNESSES

Ms. Elaine Parker, President, Job Creators Network Foundation, 
  Addison, TX....................................................     6
The Honorable Diego Morales, Indiana Secretary of State, 
  Indianapolis, IN...............................................     7
Mr. Stewart Whitson, Senior Director of Federal Affairs, 
  Foundation for Government Accountability (FGA), Great Falls, VA     8
Ms. Lisa J. Danetz, Advisor, Lisa Danetz Consulting, New York, NY    10

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:
    Ms. Elaine Parker, President, Job Creators Network 
      Foundation, Addison, TX....................................    38
    The Honorable Diego Morales, Indiana Secretary of State, 
      Indianapolis, IN...........................................    40
    Mr. Stewart Whitson, Senior Director of Federal Affairs, 
      Foundation for Government Accountability (FGA), Great 
      Falls, VA..................................................    46
    Ms. Lisa J. Danetz, Advisor, Lisa Danetz Consulting, New 
      York, NY...................................................    53
Questions and Answers for the Record:
    Questions from Hon. Velazquez to Ms. Lisa Danetz and Answers 
      from Ms. Lisa Danetz.......................................    63
Additional Material for the Record:
    American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)........................    70
    America's SBDC...............................................    74
    Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote (APIAVOTE)..........    76
    Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW)..    78
    Gallup.......................................................    84
    League of Women Voters (LWV).................................    93
    McMahon Ignite Tour Map......................................    96
    MDOS Final Destination Non-Public Letter.....................    97
    NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, Inc................    98
    Small Business Administration (SBA)..........................   107
    Small Business Development Centers Pennsylvania (SBDC).......   110
    SBA MI Pages (1) (2) and (3).................................   112
    SBA MI Page Inspect Element..................................   115
    Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC)...........................   116
    Tyler Robinson Statement.....................................   124
    Trump Hatch Act Violations...................................   128
    Voter Registration Map.......................................   134
    Weblink letter submitted by Hon. Van Duyne...................   135
    Zuckerbucks Recipients at SBC................................   136


 WEAPONIZING FEDERAL RESOURCES: EXPOSING THE SBA'S VOTER REGISTRATION 
                                EFFORTS

                              ----------                              


                         TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2024

                  House of Representatives,
               Committee on Small Business,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:03 a.m., in Room 
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams 
[chairman of the Committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Williams, Luetkemeyer, Stauber, 
Meuser, Van Duyne, Salazar, Man, Ellzey, Molinaro, Alford, 
Crane, LaLota, Maloy, Velazquez, Landsman, McGarvey, Scholten, 
Thanedar, Chu, and Davids.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. All right. Before we get started, I want 
to recognize Congressman Mann from the great state of Kansas to 
lead us in the Pledge and a prayer. Would you please rise? All 
right.
    Mr. MANN. Let's pray. Dear Lord, thank you for this time 
together. Thank you that we get to live in the greatest country 
in the history of the world.
    We pray for all the small businesses out there, all those 
entrepreneurs, that you would give them encouragement and 
wisdom and discernment with all of the decisions they have got 
to make.
    And we pray for wisdom and discernment for all of us on 
this committee as well. We are grateful. In the name of Jesus, 
Amen.
    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of 
America. And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation 
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. So good morning, everyone, and I now 
call the Committee on Small Business to order. Without 
objection, the Chair is authorized to declare the recess of the 
committee at any time.
    And we are going to do things a little differently today 
because we are expecting votes to be called at 10:30, so we 
will do our best to get through opening statements, 
introduction of witness testimony before we recess to go vote. 
We will reconvene when votes are complete and begin Member 
questions at that time.
    I now recognize myself for my opening statement. Welcome to 
today's hearing which will focus on the SBA's memorandum of 
understanding with the State of Michigan to register voters. I 
would like to start off by thanking our witnesses for being 
here with us today, and your input on these important issues is 
greatly appreciated.
    This committee is charged with oversight of the Small 
Business Administration. This is a responsibility that we do 
not take lightly, and today we will look into how much this 
agency has deviated from the core mission of helping Main 
Street America.
    The SBA is tasked with aiding, counseling, and protecting 
the interests of small businesses across our great nation. 
Instead of fulfilling these goals, the SBA has entangled itself 
in electioneering activities, not only lack a Constitution 
basis for but also betrayed the trust and purpose for which the 
agency was established.
    This MOU with Michigan demonstrates a gross misalignment of 
the SBA's priorities. Small businesses have been crushed the 
past few years with stubborn inflation, high interest rates, 
and a significant labor shortage. And while all of these issues 
have been hurting main street's ability to thrive, the SBA has 
decided to dedicate their staff's time and resources to 
register voters in a key swing state ahead of the 2024 
election.
    Not only does this agreement turn its back on the 
entrepreneurs that are struggling, but it opens up a whole host 
of potential conflicts of interest. If a President and their 
agencies are permitted to freely involve themselves in 
elections, they would misuse this influence to stay in power.
    And the American people need to have confidence that 
agencies are acting to carry out their duties without a fear of 
political interference.
    So, unfortunately, that is no longer the case and as SBA is 
planning events around Michigan, the American people are going 
to be left wondering if the event is only held to register 
President Biden's target voting or not.
    Because of the potential to misuse this new power to 
register voters, the committee immediately has sent letters and 
started asking questions about how the SBA is carrying out 
these orders.
    And as we started asking questions, the lack of 
transparency was astounding. It took the SBA over 6 weeks to 
even show us the MOU after their initial press release 
announcing a new electioneering agreement.
    And additionally, after an SBA employee was caught on tape 
bragging about the administrator's campaign activities, they 
failed to make him available to speak with the committee until 
we issued the first subpoena in more than a decade from this 
committee.
    This committee will not stop calling out this misuse of 
power, and we use every tool at the disposal to get the answers 
we need from the SBA.
    I want to thank you all for being here today, and I look 
for look forward to today's important conversation, and it is 
very important.
    And with that, I will yield to our distinguished Ranking 
Member from New York, from the great state of New York, Ms. 
Velazquez.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Good morning and let me take this 
opportunity to thank the witnesses for being here.
    Mr. Chairman, I am particularly troubled by the 
investigation into voter registration and the recent issuance 
of subpoenas to SBA employees. These actions threaten the 
spirit of bipartisanship that the Small Business Committee has 
prided itself on over the years and is grossly unwarranted.
    On March 7, 1965, former Congressman John Lewis and Hosea 
Williams led more than 600 protesters in a peaceful March over 
the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama, to exercise their 
right to vote. They were met by a wall of state troopers who 
proceeded to knock the marchers to the ground, beat them with 
nightsticks, fired tear gas, and charged them on horseback. The 
protesters never fought back.
    This event became known as Bloody Sunday and President 
Lyndon B. Johnson immediately announced his intention to pass a 
voting rights bill. With the passage of the Voting Rights Act 
of 1965, barriers at state and local levels that prevented 
African Americans from exercising their right to vote were 
removed. This act became one of the most important and far-
reaching civil rights measures in our nation's history.
    In 1993, Congress passed the bipartisan National Voter 
Registration Act which required states to offer voter 
registration opportunities alongside services provided by state 
departments of motor vehicles. This provision has been highly 
successful in registering voters.
    Another provision allowed states to designate federal 
offices as voter registration agencies. To that end, President 
Biden issued an executive order directing agencies to expand 
access to voter registration and election information on March 
7, 2021, the 56th anniversary of Bloody Sunday.
    In response, SBA announced a voter registration agreement 
with the Michigan Department of State. The Memorandum of 
Understanding, or MOU, allows the Michigan Department of State 
to create a unique URL to place on the SBA website to drive 
online voting registration. It also permits Michigan state 
employees to register voters at district office outreach events 
in Michigan.
    The costs to the American taxpayer are de minimis and 
resources are not being diverted from small businesses. Don't 
be fooled by the rhetoric you will hear today. Expanding voter 
registration strengthens our democracy, and when our democracy 
is strong our economy is strong.
    I am fearful, though, that House Republicans are drawing 
from erroneous allegations that the 2020 election was stolen in 
an effort to undermine the integrity of the upcoming election. 
I am disappointed that the majority is basing their 
interrogation on a secretly recorded video by an unidentified 
woman who specifically targeted an SBA employee through a 
dating app.
    More than 2 hours of footage was diced and spliced to infer 
wrongdoings by the administration. This video was produced by 
James O'Keefe, the disgraced founder of Project Veritas, who 
was ousted from the organization in 2023 over allegations that 
he mistreated workers and misspent organization funds.
    Prior to his ouster, the organization settled a lawsuit 
resulting from the group's videos based on a Pennsylvania 
postal worker's allegations of election improprieties.
    O'Keefe and the organization eventually admitted that there 
was no voter fraud at the Erie Post Office.
    It should also be noted that Mr. O'Keefe profits from these 
malicious operations and reportedly pays the swipers $5,000 for 
usable footage.
    The majority has not even viewed these tapes in their 
entirety, and yet we are here today to listen to their 
dangerous claims of election interference. I fear we have heard 
this before and it resulted in a siege of the Capitol and our 
democracy.
    Today's narrative settles on a perilous path to lay the 
groundwork to overturn the 2024 election at the behest of a 
convicted felon.
    This is a sham investigation and it distracts from the 
issues American entrepreneurs care about--access to capital, a 
strong workforce, government contracts, and, most importantly, 
the small business boom President Biden has brought America in 
the wake of the COVID pandemic. Small businesses deserve 
better.
    With that said, in this Congress the Chairman offers a 
pledge and prayer at the start of every hearing. I want to take 
this opportunity to offer my own pledge and prayer. I pledge to 
always serve America's main street in a bipartisan manner, and 
I pray those times return soon.
    With that, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back.
    I now will introduce our witnesses. Our first witness here 
with us today is Ms. Eliane Parker. Ms. Parker is the president 
of the Job Creators Network Foundation located in Addison, 
Texas. In her role with the Job Creators Network Foundation, 
Ms. Parker manages Job Creator Network's media program, 
marketing, as well as advertising and advocacy campaigns.
    Ms. Parker is also a cohost on the main street matters 
podcast which focuses on the intersection of small business 
advocacy and public policy. Prior to her role with Job Creators 
Network, Ms. Parker co-owned a Goodyear dealership where she 
gained firsthand experience of the problems facing 
entrepreneurs including taxes and government regulations.
    Ms. Parker is a graduate of the University of Central 
Florida where she studied business administration.
    I want to thank you, Ms. Parker, for being here and I look 
forward to our conversation.
    Our next witness here today with us is the Honorable Diego 
Morales. Mr. Morales is Secretary of State for the great state 
of Indiana. As secretary of state, Mr. Morales serves as chief 
elections officer in Indiana and oversees multiple other 
divisions.
    Prior serving as secretary of state, he served as an aide 
in the Secretary of State's Office and as an aide to Vice 
President Pence during his time as governor of Indiana.
    He also has extensive private sector experience working as 
a business executive, a consultant, and an entrepreneur.
    Mr. Morales was born in Guatemala and legally immigrated 
the United States with his family in 1999. He became a 
naturalized citizen and served in the United States Army and 
Indiana National Guard.
    He holds an international MBA from Tilburg University in 
the Netherlands, an MBA from Purdue University, and an 
Bachelor's degree from Indiana University.
    Secretary Morales, thank you for being here today and we 
look forward to having you in the conversation.
    Our next witness here with us today is Mr. Stewart Whitson. 
Mr. Whitson is the senior director of Federal Affairs for the 
Foundation for Government Accountability, also known as the 
FGA, located in Naples, Florida. At the FGA Mr. Whitson leads 
the team tasked with partnering with federal policymakers to 
advance policy that improves lives.
    Prior to his current role, Mr. Whitson was the legal 
director for FGA where he oversaw all legal research analysis 
and strategy. Prior to joining the FGA, Mr. Whitson served in 
the FBI as a supervisory special agent. Mr. Whitson also is a 
U.S. Army veteran having led more than 300 combat missions in 
Iraq. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Whitson earned his JD from the University of Minnesota 
Law School, a master's degree in strategic security studies 
from the George Washington University, a certificate in 
strategic management from Georgetown University, and a bachelor 
of arts degree from in political science and government from 
the University of Minnesota.
    Mr. Whitson, thank you for your service and I am looking 
forward to having you in today's conversation.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member from New York, Ms. 
Velazquez, to briefly introduce our last witness appearing 
before us today.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I would like to welcome Ms. Lisa J. Danetz, an advisor for 
the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University 
School of Law and an independent consultant who has worked in 
the field of democracy as a policy expert, advocate, and lawyer 
for over 20 years.
    Most of her work has centered on agency-based and motor 
voter registration under the National Voter Registration Act. 
Ms. Danetz holds a bachelor's degree from Yale University and a 
Juris Doctorate from the New York University School of Law.
    Welcome and thank you for testifying here today.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you for being here, Ms. Danetz.
    And I thank all the witnesses. We appreciate all of you 
being here.
    Before recognizing the witnesses, I would like to remind 
them that their oral testimony is restricted to 5 minutes in 
length. That is a very important number around here, okay? If 
you see the light turn red in front of you it means your 5 
minutes concluded and you should wrap up your testimony.
    And also if you go over you might hear me do a little of 
this. That means wrap it up, okay?
    So I now recognize Ms. Parker for her 5-minute opening 
remarks.

 STATEMENTS OF ELAINE PARKER, PRESIDENT, JOB CREATORS NETWORK 
   FOUNDATION; HONORABLE DIEGO MORALES, INDIANA SECRETARY OF 
  STATE; STEWART WHITSON, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF FEDERAL AFFAIRS, 
  FOUNDATION FOR GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY (FGA); AND LISA J. 
            DANETZ, ADVISOR, LISA DANETZ CONSULTING

                   STATEMENT OF ELIANE PARKER

    Ms. PARKER. Good afternoon, Members of the Committee. Thank 
you, Chairman Williams, for inviting me to testify today about 
the politicization of the Small Business Administration.
    My name is Elaine Parker, and I am the president of the Job 
Creators Network Foundation.
    We are America's small business megaphone, and we educate 
the public, the media, and legislators about how bad government 
policies affect main street and worker paychecks. I am not here 
today to bad mouth the SBA.
    In fact, the SBA provided a lifeline to the small business 
I used to co-own, a Goodyear Tire dealership in Martin County, 
Florida, when we needed it most.
    Between 2004 when my town was hit by two devastating 
hurricanes 3 weeks apart in 2006, when the housing bubble began 
to pop, the region was economically devastated and our business 
wasn't spared. We applied for and received a much-needed SBA 
loan to keep the lights on and make payroll. I am forever 
grateful.
    That is why I am so appalled by the politicization of the 
agency. American small businesses are suffering numerous 
hurdles, including resurgent inflation, overregulation, and 
slow economic growth.
    Price increases of goods and services have now officially 
reached 20 percent under Biden's presidency and most small 
business owners say prices have increased even more. Credit is 
extremely expensive, if attainable at all, and consumers are 
cutting back.
    According to JCNF's national SBIQ poll of small business 
owners, two-thirds of respondents say that current economic 
conditions could force them to close.
    Yet against this backdrop, the SBA is choosing to devote 
its resources, to devote its efforts to registering voters in a 
swing state rather than helping small businesses survive this 
difficult economic climate.
    That is unacceptable and a slap in the face to hard-working 
small business owners nationwide. Besides the clear 
constitutional and statutory concerns, the SBA's electioneering 
abandoned small businesses when its help is needed most.
    The agency is choosing partisan politics over small 
businesses. The SBA's mission is to, and I quote, ``Aid, 
counsel, assist, and protect insofar as is possible, the 
interests of small business concerns.'' How is registering 
Michiganders to vote advancing that mission?
    Turning the SBA into an arm of the Biden 2024 reelection 
campaign and weaponizing it to advance Democratic Party 
interests violates political norms and strips the SBA of its 
well-earned role and reputation as a defender of small 
businesses. The agency's stonewalling of this committee's 
oversight is just more proof that the SBA has gone rogue.
    On behalf of the 33 million small businesses across the 
country, I implore the SBA to return to its core mission 
immediately. There is still time to redirect its resources back 
to helping Main Street America.
    Economic conditions continue to deteriorate due to bad 
government policies and small business loans are harder and 
harder to get. A robust SBA committed to helping small 
businesses is needed to ease this credit crunch and allow small 
businesses to survive and thrive.
    Americans need the SBA to stop playing politics and empower 
more establishments to weather the worsening economic 
conditions, just like it did from my Goodyear Tire dealership 
so many years ago.
    Thank you for your time, and I would be happy to answer any 
questions.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back. I now--thank you 
for that. I now recognize Secretary Morales for his 5-minute 
opening remarks.

            STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE DIEGO MORALES

    Mr. MORALES. Chairman Williams, Vice Chairman Luetkemeyer, 
Ranking Member Velazquez, and distinguished Members of the 
House Committee on Small Business, thank you for the invitation 
to testify today.
    I am here to explain my duties as Indiana Secretary of 
State and the appropriate role of the U.S. Small Business 
Administration. My name is Diego Morales. I am proud to be 
Indiana's 63rd Secretary of State and the first Latino elected 
to a statewide office in the history of Indiana, and I am 
currently the only immigrant elected Secretary of State in the 
country.
    I was born in Guatemala and legally immigrated with my 
family to America. I know some of you share a similar story of 
humble beginnings like me. I came here knowing zero English and 
I was embraced by the Hoosier State.
    Later, with a green card in my wallet, I proudly 
volunteered and served in the U.S. Army and the Indiana 
National Guard. I have such a deep pride for my state of 
Indiana and for our country.
    As Indiana Secretary of State I oversee four divisions. I 
am here to talk about two of them. I am recognized by Indiana 
and the federal government as Indiana's chief election officer. 
It is a title that has significant responsibility to deliver 
trusted, secure, and efficient elections.
    Within the first 18 months of my administration I visited 
all 92 counties of Indiana. In fact, this year I visited all 92 
counties within 3 months. During each county visit one of my 
first stops was to meet with the county clerk.
    Since the start of my administration I have been committed 
to increasing voter turnout and participation. My team and I 
have blanketed the state with border outreach efforts, 
encouraging eligible Hoosiers to get registered to vote.
    We sponsor hundreds of thousands of voter PSAs across 
Indiana. We have set up registration booths at state and county 
fairs, schools, parades, and sporting events, even at the Indy 
500.
    I am constantly visiting our minority communities 
encouraging them to register to vote. Every opportunity we can 
find we take it.
    Business services is another division under my office. 
Recently, Forbes ranked Indiana as one of the best states to 
start a business. I firmly believe small businesses are the 
backbone of our Hoosier economy.
    Before becoming the Secretary of State, I was a small 
business owner. My office is a constant resource to make sure 
when an entrepreneur has an idea that idea becomes a reality.
    This summer my office is launching a new business 
initiative we are calling Right to Start. This initiative will 
help promising deserving businesses get up and running with a 
focus on minority, women, and veteran-owned businesses.
    Our election divisions and business services divisions are 
vital to our state. They also operate individually. Pursuant to 
Indiana law, the NVRA and, frankly, years of litigation, 
government agencies must be designated by the state as 
designated voter registration service agencies to lawfully 
engage in voter registration activities.
    Indiana has designated and properly trained and properly 
coordinates with specific federal agencies which provide 
nutrition, health, housing, and disability services to clients 
in Indiana.
    Respectfully, the U.S. Small Business Administration does 
not provide any of that to Hoosiers. Thus, the SBA is not at 
either the President's directive or its own initiative eligible 
to act as a Border Service agency in Indiana.
    Voter engagement is important, but small loans are 
important, too. So it looks like the SBA is siphoning resources 
from one important aspect to use on another.
    I certainly believe that Small Business Administration's 
focus on delivering resources designated by Congress is 
appropriate. Speaking on behalf of the nearly 7 million 
Hoosiers, our state acknowledges and appreciates federal 
collaboration when it comes to supporting taxpayer-funded 
services if there is respect to state and federal legislative 
directives.
    Again, thank you for your leadership, and thank you for 
holding this important hearing.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Mr. Whitson for 5 minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF STEWART WHITSON

    Mr. WHITSON. Chairman Williams, Ranking Member Velazquez, 
and Members of the Committee, good morning. My name is Stewart 
Whitson and I am the senior director of Federal Affairs at the 
Foundation for Government Accountability. FGA is a nonpartisan, 
nonprofit organization that seeks to enhance the lives of all 
Americans by improving welfare, workforce, health care, and 
election integrity policy at both the state and federal levels.
    Zuckerbucks was an unprecedented voter registration scheme 
that disproportionately targeted left-leaning jurisdictions in 
the lead up to the 2020 presidential election, especially those 
located in key battleground states, including Michigan. And it 
worked.
    The infusion of cash into certain jurisdictions, those that 
leaned heavily Democratic, drove up voter turnout in blue 
districts and allowed partisanship to weasel its way into the 
one part of elections that is supposed to be nonpartisan.
    Unfortunately, the Biden administration has doubled down on 
a new similar scheme that is using the same strategy pioneered 
through Zuckerbucks, but on a new unimaginable scale. As we 
learned in recent months, the Small Business Administration is 
playing a critical role in helping to carry out this new 
scheme.
    So back in March 2021, President Biden signed Executive 
Order 14019. The order commands a head of every federal agency 
to develop a plan to do two things: promote voter registration 
and promote voter participation. The order also commands all 
federal agencies to solicit and support, quote, ``approved'' 
third-party organizations to allow them to use federal 
resources to register and mobilize the voters these groups 
target.
    So which groups will receive this special approval? We 
don't know because the Biden administration refuses to disclose 
the list or even the criteria for approval, not only to FGA but 
to the dozens of Members of Congress who have demanded answers 
as well. What little we do know is deeply concerning.
    So this E.O. is known as Bidenbucks because it is 
Zuckerbucks on steroids. Instead of Mark Zuckerberg it is 
President Biden, and instead of $400 million it is the 
unlimited power resources and reach of the federal government 
and its offices located in every state across the country, 
including those of the SBA.
    So here is some of what we know so far. Back in March of 
this year, the SBA announced a new agreement it had made with 
the Michigan Department of State in response to the Bidenbucks 
executive order to, quote, ``promote civic engagement and voter 
registration in Michigan.'' So not just registering more voters 
but actually helping to turn them out to vote.
    Campaigns called this a Get Out the Vote effort. This, 
quote, ``first of its kind collaboration'' will include a new 
effort for the SBA to drive individuals visiting its website to 
a new site where visitors can register to vote.
    But they don't plan to stop at online voter registration. 
According to MDOS, the SBA's Michigan field office may also 
allow MDOS officials to conduct in-person voter registration at 
the SBA's small business outreach events.
    So obviously there are a number of factors surrounding this 
new SBA effort that draw into question the true motivations 
behind this new partnership between Michigan's highly partisan 
secretary of state and the SBA.
    First, the complete lack of transparency by the Biden 
administration surrounding the Bidenbucks order and how 
precisely it is being implemented in the states.
    Second, the fact that this new unprecedented SBA 
partnership is being carried out in Michigan, a key 
battleground state.
    Third, the recently uncovered evidence revealing that the 
Biden political appointee currently leading the SBA may have 
violated federal law by using her position and federal taxpayer 
resources to indirectly campaign for President Biden.
    And fourth, the timing of the announcement, mere months 
before the upcoming election. The worry is that this isn't 
about registering small business owners across the state of 
Michigan, but rather this is about using generous business 
startup and other grants to lure targeted groups of voters, 
those the left believes are more likely to vote for the current 
President, to SBA's website and to in-person outreach events 
hosted in Democratic strongholds, all to help register and 
mobilize these voters ahead of the 2024 election.
    In other words, this appears to be a Get Out the Vote 
effort aimed at directly benefiting the Biden campaign at the 
expense of the American taxpayer and the small businesses the 
SBA is supposed to serve.
    So with that, I thank you for the opportunity to testify 
today, and I look forward to answering your questions.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Ms. Danetz for her 5-minute opening 
remarks.

                    STATEMENT OF LISA DANETZ

    Ms. DANETZ. Good morning, Chairman Williams, Ranking Member 
Velazquez, and Members of the Committee. Americans are 
concerned about the health of our democracy and rightly so.
    Ever since our nation was founded in the Declaration of 
Independence on the idea that the government is legitimate only 
when it rests on the consent of the governed, we have struggled 
over decades and centuries to live up to that ideal to make 
sure that our ability to have self-government extends to all 
eligible Americans. All of us, whatever our view, should fight 
for elections that are free and fair and secure.
    At issue in this hearing is one small way to address that 
struggle. Voter registration is the crucial first step toward 
casting a ballot and by proxy ensuring that our government is 
representative of and responsive to the American people. Except 
in North Dakota, if an American is not registered he or she 
cannot vote.
    Unfortunately, U.S. voter registration and participation 
rates are notably low, especially compared to our peer nations. 
Congress has long sought to improve voter registration access 
and has even involved federal agencies in this crucial national 
goal through a string of federal laws going back to 1955. Most 
notably, in the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, or 
NVRA, Congress provided for voter registration services at a 
wide array of state government agencies and authorized federal 
agencies to do the same.
    Executive Order 1409 implements this federal goal by 
requiring federal agencies upon request of state election 
officials to provide the same voter registration services state 
agencies do. Such agency-based registration allows Americans of 
all walks of life access in the normal course of their lives. 
It is available year-round regardless of political orientation 
from the government locations or websites people already visit.
    We should be celebrating that the federal executive branch 
is finally playing its appointed role under a 30-year law whose 
instruction has long been ignored.
    And because this is a governmental service, it is a validly 
nonpartisan. In fact, the nonpartisan nature is protected 
through the NVRA and other federal laws like the Hatch Act. The 
intergovernmental agreement in this case also prohibits 
partisan conduct by any SBA staff in Michigan.
    The executive order is not the first federal executive 
action to facilitate voter registration access for federal 
agency constituents. In September 2008, the Bush Veterans 
Health Administration issued a directive to ensure patients in 
residential VA health facilities access to voter registration 
services. That policy was updated in 2014 and in 2019 during 
the Trump administration.
    This is regular, normal, and appropriate activity and it is 
exactly what Congress intended when it passed the NVRA with a 
bipartisan vote. It intended the nonpartisan offer of voter 
registration application opportunities at agencies where 
American citizens interact, and it intended federal agencies to 
play a role.
    This committee should not get in the way of small business 
owners having a voice in the policies that affect them. Small 
business leaders think democracy is good for business. The 
SBA's mission is to aid, counsel, assist, and protect insofar 
as it is possible the interest of small business concerns.
    This is what is happening here. Because the Michigan SBA 
will provide access to voter registration application 
opportunities, small business owners who are not registered to 
vote can add their voices to shape our government, including 
policies related to small business concerns.
    The executive order takes critical steps to improve access 
to nonpartisan voter registration opportunities and reliable 
voting information. It is the opposite of partisan 
electioneering.
    The freedom to vote in America is under escalating attack, 
a national issue that requires a national response. Everyone 
has a role to play, including the SBA.
    In closing, rather than criticizing governmental attempts 
to ensure American citizens have access to voter registration 
applications, Congress should shore up democracy, including by 
passing the Freedom to Vote Act which would modernize our voter 
registration systems and set other baseline national standards 
for voting and elections, along with the John Lewis Voting 
Rights Act, which would restore the strength of the Voting 
Rights Act of 1965.
    Thank you for having me here today.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back. Thank you.
    Now, as I mentioned the beginning of the committee, we will 
now take a brief recess until 11:15 and we will reconvene to 
begin Member questions. We have been asked to go vote so we 
will take a recess right now.
    [Recess.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The committee will now come to order, 
and we will now move to the Member questions under the 5-minute 
rule. And I want to thank all of you for waiting for us as we 
voted.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes. The Ranking Member 
brought up four different things that small businesses need to 
be focusing on, including access to capital in her opening 
statement. And yet the SBA and MOU say that this will be 
training staff to help register voters.
    This diversion of resources are exactly why we are here 
today. The SBA must focus on main street issues not 
electioneering. Ms. Parker, every 2 months the Job Creation 
Network polls small businesses around the country to hear about 
some of the biggest challenges they are facing, and throughout 
the last few years where has registering to vote landed on a 
list of concerns of small business owners?
    Ms. PARKER. Mr. Chairman, credit has become scarce for 
small business owners if they can even get it. Interest rates 
are now at a 22-year high and that has a disproportionate 
effect on our small businesses, whereas large corporations can, 
obviously, go out to capital markets and raise money very 
easily.
    Many times small business owners are utilizing loans to 
even make payroll and buy inventory, and at this point it is 
very difficult for them to access credit.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. But it is more important for them to get 
that than to be talking about registering to vote, right? They 
need money. They want access. They want to keep their 
businesses open.
    Ms. PARKER. Absolutely.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Now, elections are for the American 
people to get their voice heard, not for federal agencies are 
interfere with. Whether you are a Republican or you are a 
Democrat, you should be extremely concerned that the party that 
controls the White House can use taxpayers' dollars to direct 
the vast federal bureaucracy to influence vote behavior.
    We heard that these activities are being carried out in a 
nonpartisan way. Well, that simply is not true. The SBA has the 
ability to choose where they hold events and from the publicly 
available information they are choosing to spend a majority of 
their time in Democratic strongholds.
    So, Mr. Whitson, can you please respond if you think the 
administration is carrying out this order in a way that is 
equally representative to Republicans and Democrats alike?
    Mr. WHITSON. Thank you for that question, Mr. Chairman. You 
don't have to take my word in answering that question. You can 
actually take President Biden's word. And so if you look 
directly at the executive order in itself, it says that it is 
focused on underserved populations.
    So the order by design isn't about registering all types of 
voters or all voters have every political persuasion. It is 
about registering a specific group of voters which the Biden 
administration describes as underserved.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. So a quick follow-up, while the SBA is 
engaging in these electioneering activities their research is 
relatively small compared to other agencies. So can you discuss 
some of the other agencies that could misuse this power and 
describe some of the methods that they could utilize?
    Mr. WHITSON. Thank you again for that question, Mr. 
Chairman. So, obviously, the key behind this whole order is the 
complete lack of transparency. So what little we do know, 
though, is disturbing.
    And so this comes straight from the White House and here 
are some examples. The U.S. Department of Health and Human 
Services has transformed more than 1,400 federally qualified 
health centers located across the country into voter 
registration hubs under the NVRA. And so what does that mean, 
voter registration hubs? It means that not only do they hand 
out voter registration applications, but they also can help 
people fill out the applications and then collect the 
applications with a promise to turn it into the state on behalf 
of the voter.
    And now remember, in the executive order it called on these 
agencies to do this behavior, but it also said to work with, 
quote, ``approved third-party organizations'' to allow those 
agencies, those organizations, so nongovernment NGOs, to come 
into the federal agency and engage in the voter registration 
services.
    And so there is a real risk that those approved third-party 
groups that no one knows who those groups are necessarily, we 
have been able to uncover a few, that those are the ones that 
are being allowed to come into these federal agencies and 
actually engage in the voter registration activity.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Secretary Morales, you have been 
Secretary of State. I was Secretary of State back in Texas, I 
told you back, in 2005 under Governor Perry and one of the 
great jobs I have had. And your duties in Indiana seem very 
similar to what I was doing almost 20 years ago.
    Some of your job handles business development and you would 
assume that there would be some coordination between the SBA 
and your office. So in the short time we have got remaining, 
can you talk about your relationship with the SBA regarding 
small business issues? And what would you tell them if they 
looked to set up a voter registration MOU in your state as they 
did in Michigan?
    Mr. MORALES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am proud to be the 
Secretary of State of Indiana and thank you for your service as 
Secretary of State of Texas.
    We are not working together with the SBA. They have not 
reached out to my office. If they would have reached out to my 
office I will be gladly listen to them but let me be clear. I 
would not sign an MOU with you with them.
    It is concerning to me what the SBA is doing in other 
states. I cannot speak on other states, but it is concerning 
that they are signing MOUs specifically when it comes to swing 
states.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize the Ranking Member for 5 
minutes of questions.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Danetz, I was proud to vote for the National Voter 
Registration Act alongside my Republican colleagues. Is voter 
registration a partisan issue benefiting one party more than 
another?
    Ms. DANETZ. Voter registration here is nonpartisan, and in 
the case of SBA, it would be available to anyone who availed 
themselves of it.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Some witnesses have claimed that federal 
efforts to promote voter registration are unconstitutional. Can 
you please explain what authority the executive branch has to 
help promote voter registration?
    Ms. DANETZ. Yes, thank you. The Elections Clause of the 
United States Constitution recognizes state authority to 
regulate federal elections, but it also gives Congress the 
overriding power to make entirely new election rules or alter 
state laws.
    In the NVRA, Congress undertook that power and encouraged 
federal agencies to be designated. There is nothing 
unconstitutional about it.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Is the SBA the first federal agency to be 
designated as a voter registration agency under the NVRA by a 
state?
    Ms. DANETZ. No, it is not the first designated agency.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Which federal agencies and states have 
worked together on voter registration?
    Ms. DANETZ. So Armed Forces recruiting centers have been 
designated voter registration agencies since 1996 when the law 
was implemented. There are voter registration agencies on 
military installations.
    More recently, Kansas was actually the first to designate a 
tribal college under the executive order. And there are several 
more under the----
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Were these collaborations started by only 
Democrats or by both Democrats and Republicans?
    Ms. DANETZ. No. In 2008, the Bush Veterans Health 
Administration issued a directive requiring its residential 
facilities to provide access to voter registration assistance 
for patients.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. The MOU between SBA and the State of 
Michigan explicitly prohibits partisan activities. Could you 
please share some of those prohibitions with the committee?
    Ms. DANETZ. Sure. The agreement is a direct application of 
Section 7 of the NVRA, which states that ``voter registration 
services shall not seek to influence an applicant's political 
preference or party registration, display any such political 
preference or party allegiance,'' it has some more things, and 
then the language of the agreement tracks this language. Plus 
there are other federal laws, like the Hatch Act, that apply.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. And these prohibitions are consistent with 
prohibitions in the NVRA?
    Ms. DANETZ. Yes.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Ms. Danetz, has the SBA or the State of 
Michigan begun implementing their MOU yet?
    Ms. DANETZ. I do not believe they have.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. To be clear, the MOU has not gone into 
effect and, therefore, any increases in voter registration in 
Michigan cannot be attributed to this agreement, correct?
    Ms. DANETZ. That is right. There are lots of reasons that 
voter registration can increase.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Does the executive order directing the SBA 
to help states in voter registration activities infringe upon 
state authority?
    Ms. DANETZ. No, it does not. In fact, in all instances the 
actual voter registration occurs by the state of Michigan. In 
the instance of the URL that is planned, that goes to the 
Michigan online voter registration system.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Let me ask you, under the executive order 
and MOU will SBA themselves register any Michiganders to vote?
    Ms. DANETZ. No, they will not.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. When we use or reference underserved 
communities, are we implying black and Latinos or low-income 
communities for that effect?
    Ms. DANETZ. I think that ``underserved communities'' means 
folks who generally have lower voter registration access. That 
could include those groups. That could include folks from rural 
communities. It could include a lot of people.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. A number of witnesses here claim that the 
SBA has turned its resources away from its core mission. The 
evidence doesn't support that claim and let me tell you why.
    In 2023, the SBA delivered more than $50 billion across 
capital investment and disaster programs, which includes over 
$27 billion in 7(a) loans to more than 57,000 small businesses. 
It also approved $6.4 billion in 504 loans to almost 6,000 
borrowers.
    This year alone the SBA has approved more than 22,000 7(a) 
loans under $150,000. That sounds to me like the agency is 
putting its very limited budget----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady's time has expired.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ.--on work that meets its core mission. Thank 
you.
    I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back.
    And I now recognize Representative Luetkemeyer from the 
great state of Missouri for 5 minutes.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will start with 
Mr. Whitson. Mr. Whitson, first, thank you for your service. 
With 300 missions in Iraq you are one bad dude, so thank you so 
much for all that you have done for our country.
    Whenever we talk about this executive order it would appear 
to me that the federal government is, under the Biden 
administration, is expanding its ability beyond what the law 
says. Would you agree with that statement?
    Mr. WHITSON. I would.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. You know, I think Ms. Danetz a minute ago 
said that states have the authority over elections generally. 
There are a few things that from 30,000 feet the federal 
government has.
    And then she made the comment that the Congress authorizes 
some activities. If there are any activities, other election 
activities that happen, it should be under the authority of 
Congress not that of the administration. Would that be correct?
    Mr. WHITSON. That is correct and I would add that it is by 
law.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. By law.
    Mr. WHITSON. So Congress can only by law, and which means, 
like as you know, both houses have----
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Okay. So authorization of money is by law 
as well, right?
    Mr. WHITSON. Yes, sir.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. So in other words, the administration, 
does it have any authority to spend any of this money for 
electioneering based on what the Congress has authorized?
    Mr. WHITSON. It does not.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. So, therefore, it is beyond the law right 
now. It is actually in violation of the law to be doing this 
would be my contention. If we, Congress, have not authorized 
this, how can they be out there spending money that is not 
authorized?
    Mr. WHITSON. That is exactly right. And it is actually the 
Antideficiency Act, so federal law at 31 U.S.C., Section 1341 
strictly forbids federal agencies from spending money that 
Congress hasn't appropriated for that agency to spend. So the 
Biden administration is. Its agencies are violating federal law 
if they are spending money that----
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Are you aware of any entity that is 
getting ready to file a lawsuit against their government for 
spending money they can't spend?
    Mr. WHITSON. There is an ongoing lawsuit that was filed in 
the state of Pennsylvania that is being challenged at the 
Supreme Court level.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Ms. Parker, are you aware of any lawsuits? 
Your entity is very involved in watching over small businesses 
and their welfare and how the different agencies interact with 
them.
    Ms. PARKER. I am not aware of them.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Okay.
    Ms. PARKER. I am not aware of any.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Very good, thank you.
    Mr. Morales, you know, you indicated that you would be 
willing to listen to the administration but not act with them 
as a partner and that you are the election official in the 
state. Is that correct?
    Mr. MORALES. That is correct.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. So, you know, if the state is authorizing, 
they have various entities around the state to do their job, 
which is to help motivate people to become registered, in what 
situation would you want to recognize or be willing to partner 
with the federal government? They don't really have any 
authority to do this. Can't spend money to do it and yet would 
ask you to do this in conjunction with them. How is this going 
to work or if----
    Mr. MORALES. I would work specifically with the SBA when it 
comes to businesses, when it comes to our business services 
division under the Secretary of State's Office. Anything 
regarding elections, I was honored to share with my testimony 
today as the first Latino Secretary of State, I am the only one 
who goes to all the minority communities, to rural Indiana, 
everywhere to register eligible Hoosiers. That is my job.
    And my team and I have blanketed the state to make sure 
that every eligible Hoosier has the opportunity to vote.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. It would seem to me that it would be the 
responsibility of the various parties, as well as the state 
election officials, to register people, not that of the federal 
government. Would that be a fair statement?
    Mr. MORALES. Well, you know, both parties can, you know, 
obviously, they certainly can encourage folks to register to 
vote. But I am taking this on a personal level because, you 
know, before I became a naturalized citizen myself this is 
personal for me.
    That is why when I became a naturalized citizen myself on 
that day I went to register to vote, and I have not missed one 
election ever since. We as Americans now need to take this 
seriously. This is our civic duty to do our part as well.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you for that, and I think that is a 
very powerful statement that you have made there from someone 
who has immigrated this country and now understands the 
greatness of our country and one of the foundations that makes 
us great. So thank you for that.
    Ms. Parker, you know, the Job Creator Network is very, very 
important with regards to overseeing a lot of issues that 
affect small businesses. Is this an issue that affects small 
businesses, voter registration?
    Ms. PARKER. No, it does not, sir.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Why do you think the administration is 
getting involved in this thing?
    Ms. PARKER. I don't think I would speculate on why they are 
getting involved in that, but I can say that the Small Business 
Administration's mission is about helping small businesses like 
mine in the time of need, whether it is credit or other things.
    We have seen tornadoes across the nation from Texas to 
Michigan and communities devastated, much like mine was when 
the hurricanes came. That is the role of the SBA is to help 
those small businesses.
    Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Let me just close with this. There was a 
headline in last, well, last week's national papers, 
`Regulatory Burden Under Biden Soars to $1.6 Trillion, 292 
Million Paperwork Hours.'' That is what we should be talking 
about, not going out here and doing something that is, quite 
frankly, illegal by spending taxpayer monies on registering 
voters.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Chu from the great state of 
California for 5 minutes.
    Ms. CHU. Ms. Danetz, as you know, the clients with whom the 
Small Business Administration interacts and serves our 
entrepreneurs and small business owners. These are the people 
who would receive help with voter registration under the MOU 
between the SBA and Michigan's Department of State.
    We have heard from our Republican colleagues here today 
that this is an attempt by the Biden administration to register 
voters sympathetic to the Democratic Party.
    This would imply that all those who would register would 
register Democrat rather than Republican. Do you have reason to 
believe that small business owners tend to lean Democratic more 
than they lean Republican?
    Ms. DANETZ. No. There is no reason to assume that.
    Ms. CHU. And, in fact, I seek unanimous consent to enter 
into the record a January 2020 Gallup Poll showing that small 
business owners were evenly split 50/50 between preferring 
President Biden or Donald Trump.
    And this, of course, was in 2020. It is before Mr. Trump 
was convicted of 34 felonies, but I think it still bears 
relevance to this discussion.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved.
    Ms. CHU. Ms. Danetz, thank you for your testimony here 
today that is so fact-based. We all should agree that helping 
eligible American citizens register to exercise their right to 
vote in federal elections is a good thing.
    That is why in 1993 Congress passed into law, on a 
bipartisan basis, the National Voter Registration Act or 
commonly referred to as the Motor Voter Bill because it 
mandated that state motor vehicle departments allow Americans 
to register to vote on their driver's license applications.
    But the NVRA also authorized other types of nonpartisan 
voter registration activities. For example, it allows state 
governments to designate federal agencies as voter registration 
agencies.
    So can you discuss the legal foundations for this 
Memorandum of Understanding between the Michigan Department of 
State and the SBA?
    Most importantly, does this designation break or follow the 
law, because those on the other side are implying that this is 
breaking the law? Does this break or follow the law?
    Ms. DANETZ. Thank you for this question. This is actually a 
straight application of Section 7 of the NVRA. In addition to 
the mandatory voter registration agencies, each state must 
designate one or more additional agencies. And among those, 
federal agencies can be included with their agreement.
    That is exactly what happened here where Michigan 
designated SBA, SBA agreed to it, and they determined how to 
implement that.
    Ms. CHU. Ms. Danetz, one of the arguments that we have 
heard repeatedly today is that by signing this MOU between the 
SBA and Michigan Department of State it is directing taxpayer 
dollars and resources away from small businesses and diverting 
it from its core mission. Is this true?
    What activities does the MOU actually entail? What is, most 
importantly, what is the actual cost of these activities to the 
SBA and does it take away from their missions of dispensing 
loans and so forth?
    Ms. DANETZ. I cannot tell you the exact cost, however, what 
I can tell you is that Section 12B of the executive order 
indicates that implementation of it should be dependent on 
availability of appropriations.
    In addition, the activities under the agreement are 
basically that Michigan will develop a URL for use in 
connection with certain SBA transactions and then SBA will put 
a link to vote.gov on some of its social media and marketing 
materials.
    Ms. CHU. And do people have to be specially trained as has 
been implied?
    Ms. DANETZ. There is a training component but generally 
that training takes about 15 minutes.
    Ms. CHU. Okay. The NVRA also empowers Americans to file 
complaints if an agency has tried to influence a customer's 
partisan affiliation or voting preference. What safeguards are 
in place, and has anyone made such a complaint?
    Ms. DANETZ. So as part of agency registration, people who 
are applying are given information about how to contact their 
chief election official if anything inappropriate has happened. 
And they would generally do so. I am not aware generally of 
significant complaints of partisanship in that regard.
    Ms. CHU. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Meuser from the great state 
of Pennsylvania for 5 minutes.
    Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.
    So the SBA signed an agreement with the state of Michigan. 
We have finally received a copy of the MOU signed by a Jennifer 
Kim. The MOU is in effect, just unquestionably.
    I asked in a previous hearing for emails from Administrator 
Guzman. She said, yes, she would provide me every 
correspondence that occurred. Of course, we never received 
that.
    We did 2 or 3 weeks ago receive a copy of the MOU after 
about a month of lawyering up. This Jennifer Kim was hired in 
2022. Her entire background, even the SBA put it on the 
website, was for voter registration in the state of Michigan.
    She worked for Kamala Harris and she was a community 
organizer. And, by the way, the taxpayers are paying her 
$183,100. She was hired to register voters in the state of 
Michigan. She had no background whatsoever with small business.
    This character Tyler Robinson, we certainly aren't relying 
on any of his statements that were recorded because, I mean, he 
looks like--he seems like he is a goof. However, everything he 
said actually occurred, okay? It was accurate.
    Administrator Guzman has gone to the state of Michigan 
eight times. That is twice as many as any other state. The 
areas where she has gone voter registration has gone up. I have 
the data.
    I would seek unanimous consent, Mr. Chairman, to provide 
this document for the record.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved.
    Mr. MEUSER. And again, it is twice as much in Michigan as 
any other state, and we all know Michigan is a hotbed for this 
upcoming election.
    So the MOU, as stated, is in effect. All of this is going 
on and yet we are, kind of, being convinced to not look over 
here. We issued subpoenas to try to get to the bottom of it.
    These individuals, including Plews and Tyler Robinson, have 
lawyered up. Why would they lawyer up if everything is on the 
up and up?
    And again, the SBA, we all agree, has real work to do 
besides trying to win Michigan for their current occupant of 
the White House.
    So Mr. Whitson, I would like to ask you, so have you heard 
any other agencies engaged in this? Like, there has been some 
rumors about HUD being involved?
    Mr. WHITSON. Yes. So I mentioned that Health and Human 
Services is involved. The Department of Labor is also involved 
with 2,300 American job centers. U.S. Department of Agriculture 
is allowing food stamp funds, administrative funds to be used 
to pay for voter registration participation services.
    And the one you just mentioned, sir, HUD sent guidance to 
the executive directors of more than 3,000 public housing 
authorities managing about 1.2 million housing units advising 
them on how to run voter registration drives through public 
housing agencies. And so Federal Housing officials also advise 
the local agencies on how to apply to become, quote, ``voter 
registration agency under the National Voter Registration 
Act,'' and how to set up drop boxes for ballots on the 
premises.
    Mr. MEUSER. What laws do you think could be possibly 
violated here?
    Mr. WHITSON. I mean, so I think there are a few. So the 
first one is the U.S. Constitution and the Administrative 
Procedure Act. So Article I, Section 4, Clause 1, times, place, 
and manners that leaves the times, places, and manner of 
elections to state legislatures with----
    Mr. MEUSER. Right.
    Mr. WHITSON.--limited oversight. And so controlling how, 
when, and where registration takes place is the manner.
    Mr. MEUSER. Right. Right. By the way, when this Mr. 
Robinson made his statements that they would only meet with 
Democrats in Michigan, that held true. There are--well, five 
Democrats were met with out of seven in those eight trips. 
Never was a Republican invited.
    And in her trip to Pennsylvania, four trips to 
Pennsylvania, also a swing state, she certainly never invited 
me or any Republicans that I am aware of.
    So moving along, the voter registration efforts under this 
MOU primarily are targeting Democrat voters in Michigan. Why do 
you think that is, Mr. Whitson?
    Mr. WHITSON. Well, I think it is because it is a key 
battleground state and I think the reasons you have mentioned, 
too, as well.
    Mr. MEUSER. Right.
    Mr. WHITSON. You have key people from that state and so it 
is a place where you don't need a lot of votes to make a big 
impact.
    Mr. MEUSER. So is this unethical or illegal in your view?
    Mr. WHITSON. It is both in my view.
    Mr. MEUSER. Okay. Ms. Danetz, do you think this sounds 
kosher?
    Ms. DANETZ. I think there is beauty in agency-based 
registration, because it is available to people regardless of 
their background. When they go into government agencies or deal 
with government programs that they are already----
    Mr. MEUSER. I thank you. My time has expired.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Landsman from the great 
state of Ohio for 5 minutes.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Full disclosure, I 
am a big fan of democracy. I am a big fan of voting. I am a big 
fan of voter registration.
    When I saw the hearing was about the secretary of state 
having an MOU with the SBA to go out and register people to 
vote I thought that is wonderful. You know? Maybe that is what 
we are promoting and suggesting every state should do so that 
we can have a greater participation in our democracy, which is 
at the heart of a healthy democracy, right?
    We want to see more people, irrespective of who they vote 
for or their partisan affiliation, we want to see them 
participate in our democracy. That is at the core of a healthy 
democracy.
    It turns out the hearing is different. It is an effort to 
suggest that voter registration and efforts to partner up 
between secretaries of states and agencies, nonprofits, 
whatever it is, is somehow problematic when, of course, it is 
very important to the health and ultimately the future of our 
democracy.
    Mr. Morales, you are a secretary of state in Indiana. I am 
next door in Ohio. I downloaded the voter registration form in 
Ohio.
    Now, I am assuming they are very similar, but I just want 
to make sure. On this voter registration form it asks, you 
know, if you are a U.S. citizen, if you are 18 years old. It 
asks for information about you, your name, where you live, 
birth date, just looking here. You sign it, which makes a lot 
of sense.
    There is, at least on this one, there is nothing about 
partisan affiliation. On the voter registration that you all 
have in Indiana, do you ask people what their party is? You 
don't do that?
    Mr. MORALES. No, we don't.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. Oh, you don't do that. Okay, that is good. 
And then it doesn't say anywhere on here, it doesn't say who 
you are going to vote for, right? It doesn't say.
    And I am assuming that is true in Indiana. You don't ask 
people who they are voting for, you just register them to vote?
    Mr. MORALES. You know, in fact, when I crisscrossed all 92 
counties within 3 months when I go to schools, when I go to 
communities, I ask them to register to vote.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. That is great.
    Mr. MORALES. And I am very clear as I ask them, I am not 
here to tell you who to vote for.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. Right.
    Mr. MORALES. That is not my job.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. Love it.
    Mr. MORALES. My job is to register to vote.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. One hundred percent. I think that is 
absolutely perfect. Keep up the good work. I think that that 
is, to me, at the heart, again, of our democracy.
    Ms. Danetz, the act of voter registration itself is that 
partisan?
    Ms. DANETZ. No.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. The act of voting itself, is that partisan?
    Ms. DANETZ. No. I mean, people express----
    Mr. LANDSMAN. And the principles of----
    Ms. DANETZ.--their preferences.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. Correct, but the act of voting itself, going 
into the booth and voting is not partisan?
    Ms. DANETZ. No.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. The principles of democracy, including 
registering people to vote and voting, those principles of 
democracy are they partisan?
    Ms. DANETZ. No.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. Okay. Is this hearing partisan? You don't 
have to answer that.
    Ms. DANETZ. I am not sure I----
    Mr. LANDSMAN. Okay. That is fine. It seems to be. I hope 
that we turn a corner and realize that what happened anytime 
the secretary of state in any state says, hey, let's go 
register more voters, we should as Americans who believe in our 
democracy, be very excited about that and encourage that.
    Before I yield, Mr. Chair, can I, because Mr. Robinson was 
brought up, can I submit into the record Mr. Robinson's 
transcribed interview statement?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved.
    Mr. LANDSMAN. Okay, thank you. And with that, I yield.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Now, I recognize Representative Mann from Kansa, the great 
state of Kansas for 5 minutes.
    Mr. MANN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having this hearing 
and thank you all for being here today.
    I am Tracy Mann. I represent the big 1st District of 
Kansas, which is 60 primarily rural counties in the western and 
central part of my state.
    I can tell you that the good people in my district have 
absolutely no interest in the federal government being used to 
further President Biden's reelection bid. Frankly, it is absurd 
that we even need to have this hearing today in the first 
place.
    Record high inflation, never ending red tape, bureaucracies 
like the ATF at your doorstep demanding you shut down your 
doors for misspelling a name on a gun sale form, these are the 
things that real business owners are dealing with in my 
district every day.
    I said repeatedly in this room issues like this should not 
be Republican or Democrat issues. It is, frankly, un-American 
that the SBA would turn themselves into an arm of the Biden 
campaign under the guise of, quote, ``small business 
outreach,'' end quote, targeting swing state voters.
    And that really is the fundamental issue here. No one here 
is against registering more people to vote. We want robust 
turnout at elections.
    The issue here is going after specific swing district 
voters in specific areas because we all know that elections are 
driven by turnout. And the turnout in certain areas 
dramatically impacts the election, and that is the fundamental 
issue here.
    We wonder why Americans have lost faith in their 
governmental institutions. It is because of this weaponization 
of the government. Instead of helping to register voters in 
swing states, the Biden administration should be helping small 
businesses to thrive or at the very least get out of the way.
    A handful of questions, first for you, Mr. Morales. I know 
you are the Secretary Of State of Indiana. I am the former 
lieutenant governor of my state. We both know that the SBA and 
the executive branch have no role in the election process.
    The Constitution empowers the Congress and states to 
regulate elections. I am also the father of four elementary 
school children. These are some basic separation of powers 
issues that we all learned back in elementary school.
    So my question for you, sir, do you believe that should 
Americans be concerned about the SBA involving itself in the 
elections process?
    Mr. MORALES. Thank you for the question, Congressman. The 
SBA should be focusing on helping small business owners. I 
believe small business owners are the backbone of our Hoosier 
economy in my state and that should be their role.
    It has to be a clear separation, as you stated. We cannot 
generate confusion because if people go there asking for a loan 
and then they will find an application form for voter 
registration. That may generate confusion.
    That is why my election division under the secretary of 
state's office, that is when we step in. We are doing 
everything we can to register as many eligible Hoosiers day-in, 
day-out, Congressman.
    Mr. MANN. Yeah. Well, I agree and appreciate the answer.
    Question for you, Ms. Parker. Our Founders masterfully 
created the Declaration of Independence, which outlines our 
values, and then the Constitution came along and enshrines our 
values.
    In your view as the president of the Job Creators Network 
Foundation, how can America get back to these basics and stop 
interference like this?
    Ms. PARKER. That is a great question. As far as Americans, 
they do want to see their government work for them. They want 
to see their government function normally, and they don't want 
to see one side tip the scales for the other. And that is what 
the SBA is doing.
    I see the SBA's role as maybe an internal version of me, 
essentially. They should be advocating to the administration 
when regulations are going to hurt small businesses. That is 
what I do. I spend 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, 365 days a 
year thinking about how I can help small businesses.
    I think that is what the SBA should have been doing from 
the internal side.
    Mr. MANN. I wholeheartedly agree.
    Last question for you, Mr. Whitson, in your view, are small 
businesses in this country better off than they were 4 years 
ago? And what do you think that the SBA should be focused on?
    Mr. WHITSON. So I think if you look at the numbers, thank 
you for that question by the way, Mr. Congressman. If you look 
at the numbers they clearly are not. I mean we have Biden 
inflation. We are suffering record high inflation levels. That 
affects loans. That affects a number of other things.
    So businesses are hurting, people are hurting, and so the 
SBA, like all of the other federal agencies, need to focus on 
their primary mission and help people the way Congress intended 
them to.
    But even more important is there is a danger when federal 
executive agencies led by political appointees of any party get 
involved in the business of voter registration and targeted 
voter registration----
    Mr. MANN. I hear that.
    Mr. WHITSON.--because you are basically inserting campaign 
activity.
    Mr. MANN. Wholeheartedly. I mean, this is targeted voter 
registration. This is un-American. I think everybody knows it 
is wrong.
    And, Mr. Chairman, thank you for having this hearing. I 
yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    And Representative Scholten from the great state of 
Michigan for 5 minutes.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much. It is a great state, Mr. 
Chair. Thank you.
    I agree with my colleague Mr. Mann. It is so unfortunate 
that we are having this hearing today. There are so many other 
deeply important things that we should be spending the 
taxpayers' dollars on today discussing.
    Before we begin, Mr. Chair, I have a letter from the Small 
Business Development Center that I would like to submit here 
for the record, in addition to a map that outlines the details 
of specifically when and where voter registration has increased 
in the state of Michigan.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you. I want to start out today, 
Secretary Morales, thank you so much for being here today, sir. 
You have such an impressive resume and background, but just to 
get this into the record just to clarify, you are the secretary 
of state for Indiana, correct?
    Mr. MORALES. That is correct, the great state of Indiana.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Okay, not for Michigan, correct?
    Mr. MORALES. Not for Michigan.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Okay, okay. So----
    Mr. MORALES. And I clearly stated I am here to----
    Ms. SCHOLTEN.--you don't have firsthand----
    Mr. MORALES.--speak behalf of others.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN.--knowledge of the implementation of any 
Memorandum of Understanding between the SBA and the state of 
Michigan. Is that correct?
    Mr. MORALES. I don't, but it is concerning to me.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Do you have--no. The question is just do you 
have firsthand knowledge of that?
    Mr. MORALES. I don't.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. You do not. Okay. All right. Thank you, sir.
    For Ms. Parker, you mentioned in your opening remarks that 
the SBA has, quote, ``become an arm of the Biden 2024 
campaign,'' and that you wanted the SBA to, quote, ``return to 
its normal duties.'' Do you have any information confirming 
this program in effect today?
    Ms. PARKER. Just what I have seen reported.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Okay. So you don't have any firsthand 
knowledge of the program as it is in effect today, how many 
resources have been deployed. Do you know how many?
    Ms. PARKER. I do not.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. You do not. Okay. So on what facts are you 
basing the allegations that the SBA has become an arm of the 
Biden campaign if you don't have facts and knowledge about 
that?
    Ms. PARKER. The reporting that I have seen is that the SBA 
is going into specific areas of Michigan and doing targeted 
voter registration. It is not in the mission of the SBA to do 
that at all, and as a former business owner I understand all of 
the challenges that small businesses face----
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Have you verified those facts?
    Ms. PARKER. I have seen them reported in the media.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Is the Memorandum of Understanding even in 
effect? Is it even being implemented?
    Ms. PARKER. I don't know the answer to that right now. What 
I have seen reported is----
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. But so you don't----
    Ms. PARKER.--what the memorandum states.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN.--know the answer. You don't know if this is 
even in effect yet, and it is my understanding, as we have 
heard today, it is not in effect yet. It requires still an 
additional executive order by the governor. And yet, you have 
said that the SBA has abandoned its duties for a memorandum 
that isn't even in effect yet?
    Ms. PARKER. Well, I believe that the goal is to put it into 
effect because that is why it was written.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. But when you said that you wanted the SBA to 
return to its duties, what is that based on? How has it turned 
away if this memorandum is not even in effect yet, ma'am?
    Ms. PARKER. That is the goal of the memorandum and if they 
are going to move forward with that, then----
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. But it has not yet happened.
    Ms. PARKER. That is what you say, yes.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. You disagree?
    Ms. PARKER. I don't have knowledge but I have----
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. You don't have----
    Ms. PARKER.--have read the reports.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. But yet you testified to the fact that it 
has. But you are admitting now that you don't know? Is that 
correct?
    Ms. PARKER. The spirit of the memorandum is to go into 
targeted areas of Michigan and register voters, and that is 
problematic as a small business advocate.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. But you don't know is what you are telling me 
about the implementation of this memorandum currently?
    Ms. PARKER. What I know is what has been publicly reported.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Okay. But that contradicts what you are 
saying today about you not knowing that this has been 
implemented contradicts what you were saying about turning away 
the SBA, turning back to its core mission.
    Ms. PARKER. I don't believe it does because the spirit of 
the memo says that they are going to.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. We can turn away from that for now, ma'am. 
You know, your testimony is contradicting itself here.
    I have one more question for Mr. Whitson. You mentioned in 
your testimony that the Biden administration is violating 
federal law by spending money on this program in Michigan. How 
much money has the federal government spent on this program 
already?
    Mr. WHITSON. That is the problem, we don't know. And even 
the Members of Congress can't say that amount.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. How can the Biden administration spend money 
on this program when it is not even implemented yet?
    Mr. WHITSON. Well, so creating the MOU itself costs money.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. How many----
    Mr. WHITSON. People had to sit down--we don't know the 
exact price, but Members of the SBA had to sit down and waste--
--
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. You don't know the exact----
    Mr. WHITSON.--hours and use taxpayer money----
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Right.
    Mr. WHITSON.--to sit and engage and go back and forth on an 
MOU. And so that costs the taxpayer money just creating this 
piece of paper.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. To your knowledge, has the SBA implemented 
this program yet in Michigan?
    Mr. WHITSON. That is a--I don't know. No one knows.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. But yet you are here today testifying about a 
program saying that it has completely violated the Constitution 
when you don't even know that this program is in effect. And, 
in fact, it is not.
    My time is up, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Van Duyne from the great 
state of Texas for 5 minutes.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. Well, let me clarify. The MOU is absolutely 
in effect. It is absolutely in effect and it was in effect from 
day 1 when it was signed. We know that the URL exists, 
absolutely the URL exists. I would suggest you look it up.
    If we need to send that out to the rest of our Committee 
Members who seem to be blind on this, please let's do that. And 
I am going to ask staff to make sure that we are doing that 
because apparently some Members of this Committee don't 
understand what is happening at the SBA.
    And, by the way, we would love to know how often that that 
URL is being used, but guess what? We don't, because we have 
made requests repeatedly to the SBA for further information. 
They have been ignored.
    So all of this questioning about what we know and what we 
don't know, it is impossible to find out because the SBA won't 
work with us. They will not give us information.
    So what we do know is what has been reported. We know what 
has been signed. We know that it is in effect, but in order for 
us to know how efficient it is we would actually have to rely 
on our own agency to respond to a congressional committee's 
request for information, which they have not done.
    So I appreciate my good Member on the other side asking 
those questions and asking for verification. I would also ask 
that she sign on to our Request for Information from the SBA to 
be able to say whether or not what they are doing, because we 
know where the dollars are going. We have no idea what the 
outcome is. This is typical of working with this 
administration.
    I am going to ask Secretary of State, if you got a request 
from the SBA to actually implement a program similar to what 
they have in Michigan, what would your response be?
    Mr. MORALES. Thank you, Congresswoman. Absolutely I will 
not sign an MOU with them as it is in other states.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. Why?
    Mr. MORALES. Because it has to be a clear separation. I 
have four divisions. I am here to talk about two. I spoke about 
two. I will be glad to work with the SBA when it comes to 
helping small business owners in Indiana, but when it comes to 
elections that is why my role in my election division under the 
Secretary of State's Office that is our responsibility to 
register as many eligible Hoosiers in our state. So it has to 
be a clear separation.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. So you would think that it would be 
inappropriate for a federal agency that is taking its requests 
directly from a presidential candidate to use the state?
    Mr. MORALES. Well, you know, according to the NVRA, the 
NVRA allows the states to designate voters registration 
agencies.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. So constitutionally it should be up to the 
states in how they are actually conducting----
    Mr. MORALES. That is correct.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE.--their elections and whether or not they 
believe it is fair.
    Mr. MORALES. And I believe we the states know better how to 
run our elections than the federal government.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. I can tell you, being a representative from 
Texas, I do not want D.C. anywhere near my federal elections, 
so I appreciate that statement very much.
    And yet again, the Biden administration is flagrantly 
violating the law. It is misusing precious taxpayer dollars.
    SBA has a track record of putting job creators last in 
favor of advancing partisan causes and now the SBA is taking 
the blatantly illegal step of using taxpayer funds to prop up 
President Biden's failing campaign. It is a clear sign of 
desperation amid crushing inflation and decades-high interest 
rates.
    We know the work the SBA is doing to register voters in 
Michigan is deliberately targeting in areas where the Biden 
campaign needs strong voter turnout. We know that these efforts 
have nothing to do with helping America's small businesses deal 
with the difficult economic environment created by Biden's 
reckless and harmful economic policies.
    And as if this isn't enough, the SBA has refused to comply 
with our congressional oversight efforts forcing our committee 
to issue its first subpoenas in years. This is an 
administration that could not care less about what laws they 
are breaking or taxpayer dollars they are misusing, or that 
they are operating wholly outside the direction of Congress.
    I will continue to work with my colleagues on this 
committee to hold the SBA's feet to the fire and hold this 
administration accountable for failing taxpayers, working 
families, and job creators.
    Mr. Whitson, you have been great. I appreciate the time 
that you have spent here and on our Ways and Means Committee. 
Can you tell us what else we as Members of Congress can do to 
stop these schemes?
    Mr. WHITSON. Thank you for that question, Congresswoman. So 
I think, like, the best thing that Congress can do right now is 
do what you are doing here, exercise your oversight power and 
gather evidence that states with principled attorneys generals 
can use to establish standing to bring a lawsuit to stop this. 
So it is exercising that power to establish standing.
    But in the process, you are also going to do a couple 
things. One, you are going to discourage bad behavior by 
federal employees that may be carrying this out by letting them 
know that you are going to hold them accountable should the 
administration change and you would be in a position to do 
that.
    If they violate the Hatch Act or they violate any law, 
Congress is going to hold them accountable. They should know 
that.
    And then the other thing they should know is 
whistleblowers. So the good, principled members of SBA and 
other agencies should know they have a friend in Congress, and 
they should come forward under whistleblower protection and 
explain specifically, answer all the questions that we don't 
have answers to, those federal employees may be able to do that 
for us.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. Mr. Chairman, I would like to just put into 
the record the URL that has been denied that actually exists. 
It is----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE.--michigan.gov/USSBA.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. So for any of our colleagues who have a 
question on whether or not that exists, here it is. Thank you 
very much, and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. All right.
    I now recognize Representative Crane from the great state 
of Arizona for 5 minutes.
    Mr. CRANE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Whitson, in your opinion, sir, why has the SBA involved 
itself in the election process and registering voters in swing 
states?
    Mr. WHITSON. Thank you for that question. So this is part 
of the executive order. It commanded every single federal 
agency to take part in this whole of government get out the 
vote effort to benefit the Biden administration. And so SBA is 
one of those tools.
    And so Michigan, as we mentioned, it is a well-known fact 
that it is a key battleground state and so it doesn't require a 
lot of votes to make a significant impact.
    Mr. CRANE. Right. Right.
    Mr. WHITSON. So that is what it appears to do.
    Mr. CRANE. What does the SBA stand for, Mr. Whitson? Do you 
know?
    Mr. WHITSON. It is the Small Business Administration.
    Mr. CRANE. Do you find that odd that the Small Business 
Administration is involved in getting out the vote in a state 
that President Biden is down in and absolutely needs to win to 
stay President?
    Mr. WHITSON. Absolutely.
    Mr. CRANE. Yeah. You said that there are other government 
agencies doing this as well, Mr. Whitson. Can you go over those 
real quick?
    Mr. WHITSON. Yes. So again, that is the Health and Human 
Services has transformed more than 1,400 federally qualified 
health centers located in states across the country into voter 
registration hubs.
    You have got the Department of Labor has turned more than 
2,300 American job centers, again scattered across the country, 
into voter registration hubs.
    USDA, Department of Education is allowing federal work 
study funds to go to college students to become an army of 
workers for left-wing groups engaging in voter registration 
activity, again, in strongholds where there are more Democrat 
votes than there are Republican. The list goes on.
    Mr. CRANE. Yeah, imagine that. You also said this was more 
alarming than the Zuckerbucks scheme by the Democrats back in 
2020. Can you elaborate on that?
    Mr. WHITSON. Yeah. So I think that scheme offers the 
perfect illustrative example of what is going on here. And so 
Zuckerbucks people could look at it on the surface and say this 
looks funny, but it was only until after the election when we 
could go in, FGA went in, and we got the exact numbers of where 
money went, which counties, and what amounts that we could have 
the proof.
    And so this is that same scheme, but instead of $400 
million it is the unlimited funding resources, reach, and power 
of the federal government and its agencies in every state. So 
it is Zuckerbucks on steroids.
    Mr. CRANE. Yeah. And we don't even know how much they are 
spending yet, do we, because they won't be transparent about 
it, right?
    Mr. WHITSON. That is exactly right.
    Mr. CRANE. That is what I thought,
    Ms. Morales, why do you think the SBA is involving itself 
in, I am sorry, Mr. Morales, why do you think the SBA isn't 
involving itself in your state in Indiana?
    Mr. MORALES. Well, they are not involving Indiana. I wish 
they have come to my state and talk to me and, like I say, I 
would love to work with them when it comes specifically with 
businesses----
    Mr. CRANE. Yeah.
    Mr. MORALES.--helping our Hoosier business.
    Mr. CRANE. Yeah. They seem to have forgotten that that is 
their main focus. But I will tell you, sir, the reason they are 
not involving their self in your state is because I checked and 
your state is a Republican plus, like, 11 state, so it is a 
Republican state.
    That is why they are not. You are not a swing state. That 
is why they are not involving themselves there.
    Do you believe this is election interference, Ms. Eliane 
Parker?
    Ms. PARKER. I do believe it is election interference when 
you are going into a targeted area of a state to register 
people for election. But again, I believe that the SBA should 
be focused on the small business and advocating for small 
businesses within the administration.
    There is a regulatory onslaught that is happening against 
our small businesses. It disproportionately hurts them, and 
that is what the SBA should be focused on is protecting----
    Mr. CRANE. Absolutely.
    Ms. PARKER.--their interests.
    Mr. CRANE. Absolutely. We have got rising inflation, right, 
over regulation, real disposable income down 7.5 percent, 21 
percent increase in credit card interest rates.
    But according to Tyler Robinson, who happens to be the 
special advisor to Administrator Guzman, Robinson claims in a 
video, this is him saying it not me, that SBA Administrator 
Guzman is the most traveled cabinet member, visits battleground 
states with Democrat Members of Congress to help them and Biden 
get reelected.
    And that she indirectly campaigns for the President by 
announcing her highlighting investments in certain communities 
by the Biden-Harris administration to sway support.
    But our Democrat colleagues will try and convince you to 
believe this stuff isn't even going on. It is unbelievable. I 
have heard from the other side today that the act of voter 
registration it is not partisan. We all heard that, right?
    The act of voting that is not partisan either, right? We 
heard that.
    Well, is it when you are targeting blue Democrat-run 
cities, counties, municipalities, is that partisan? What do you 
think Mr. Whitson?
    Mr. WHITSON. It absolutely is. And so it is what campaigns 
do, right?
    Mr. CRANE. Yeah.
    Mr. WHITSON. Campaigns engage in Get Out the Vote efforts 
and they don't try to get out the vote of every kind of voter. 
They try to get out the vote of the voters that will put them 
in office and so that is what the problem is.
    Now, the federal executive branch is engaging in this, a 
federal executive branch led by a Member of one political party 
is using that apparatus to engage in a Get Out the Vote scheme 
to benefit----
    Mr. CRANE. Yeah, and imagine that. And we hear it from the 
other side about, oh, this is undermining democracy and 
bipartisanship. Are you kidding me?
    You guys just tried to put your number one political 
opponent, President Trump, in jail, right? That is what you are 
trying to do right now, and now this, and it is just a couple 
of different things. We are not buying any of it, okay?
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Salazar from the great state 
of Florida for 5 minutes.
    Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you to the witnesses. I want to ask, I am sure 
that I am going to be repeating some of the same statements 
that we have been hearing before, but I want to hear from Ms. 
Danetz. Thank you, Ms. Danetz for being here.
    What do you think Michigan and not Florida, I represent 
District 27, south Florida, why do you think that the SBA made 
this agreement with the federal government--I mean with the 
state of Michigan? Why Michigan and not Florida?
    Ms. DANETZ. Because the state officials in Florida have not 
approached SBA relating to designation, as in Indiana.
    Ms. SALAZAR. What about Ohio or Mississippi or any other 
state that is not considered blue or necessary to win for 
President Biden?
    Ms. DANETZ. Again, the White House's statements makes clear 
that SBA would be willing to be designated in any state where a 
state official makes that designation. So because voter 
registration mechanics remain with the state, it is up to the 
state official of each state to approach SBA and make a 
designation.
    Ms. SALAZAR. All right. And I am sure for everything that 
you have heard here during this hearing that the optics of this 
program is pretty dubious. The optics are just, and I am going 
to give you just few facts so then I want to hear your opinion.
    Michigan is the only state, right, coincidentally. After 1 
week after these agreements between the state of Michigan and 
SBA, all of a sudden the White House announces that it is going 
to establish 15 campaign field offices across the state. Optics 
are not really clear there.
    Michigan is a swing state Michigan. Michigan has polls from 
every corner of the political spectrum saying that President 
Biden is down.
    The evidence, circumstantial evidence, optics, whatever you 
want to call it is pointing that the Biden administration is 
using taxpayers' money, that is illegal, to increase their 
chances of winning reelection. That is very illegal.
    So I just want to ask your opinion. You are an advisor. You 
are a consultant. What do you say to the optics that I just 
narrated?
    Ms. DANETZ. Michigan is not the only state that has 
designated a federal agency and, quite frankly----
    Ms. SALAZAR. It the only one that has right now an 
agreement with the Secretary of State with the federal 
government, meaning the SBA, which is the same thing. Feds, 
SBA, same thing, state of Michigan.
    Ms. DANETZ. So, because of the structure of the NVRA there 
is no specific way that each state has to undertake the 
designation process. So for example----
    Ms. SALAZAR. No, no.
    Ms. DANETZ.--in another state----
    Ms. SALAZAR. We are not saying today, but Michigan did take 
it, 15 field offices were opened. And that is why I am saying 
the optics. Don't you see something wrong with what we are 
saying?
    Ms. DANETZ. What I see is that there are agencies 
designated in states across the country and this hearing is 
focusing on Michigan because of the SBA.
    Ms. SALAZAR. How many other states have the same type of 
agreement between a federal agency, meaning the SBA, in order 
to, like you said, 30 years ago this program started to promote 
and to go to the business owners and say, hey, let's don't even 
talk about what you need right now? If you need to buy 
computers or you need a small loan let me help you register to 
vote.
    Ms. DANETZ. Kansas, New Mexico, Arizona----
    Ms. SALAZAR. Do they have the same type of agreement 
between the federal agencies?
    Ms. DANETZ. They have designated federal agencies and those 
federal agencies will be providing voter registration services.
    Ms. SALAZAR. But they are not in place right now. They 
haven't started. Like, Michigan started a week ago.
    Ms. DANETZ. I am unaware whether they have been implemented 
yet.
    Ms. SALAZAR. So I go back to--so you are trying to give me 
just a little detail. I am saying the whole optics. Don't you 
see what we are seeing?
    Ms. DANETZ. I am personally thrilled that agency-based 
registration is expanding across the country to provide 
nonpartisan voluntary voter registration services to Americans 
in the----
    Ms. SALAZAR. How do we know that they are nonpartisan? How 
do we know that if this is an initiative from the Biden 
administration in a state that is a swing state, how do we know 
or not know that the Members of the SBA, Mrs. Guzman, we know 
that she is an advocate for the President, is really going to 
give the opportunity to that person that wants to register 
Republicans? You don't know about that?
    Ms. DANETZ. Congresswoman, I am actually thrilled you asked 
me this question, so thank you very much. There are many layers 
of protection to ensure nonpartisanship----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The time has expired.
    Ms. SALAZAR. You never answered the question, Madam.
    Mr. ALFORD. [Presiding.] I now recognize Representative 
Maloy from Utah for 5 minutes.
    Ms. MALOY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have heard a lot of 
condescending sarcastic comments today about how important it 
is to register voters, and so I just want to make sure that I 
underline that I think we all agree that it is important that 
we register voters, that people can vote legally in elections.
    But what we are talking about here today is the proper role 
of government. We are talking about governments playing the 
role they are intended to play, both between the federal 
government and state governments. So states run elections and 
the best election security we have in this country is that 
states run their own elections. We don't want them federalized.
    And then within the federal government we have proper roles 
for agencies and we are here. This is the Small Business 
Committee. We are here talking about the Small Business 
Administration.
    And it is not part of the Small Business Administration's 
role to register voters. It is the Small Business 
Administration's role to help small businesses.
    And we have had hearings recently with the inspector 
general and the Government Accountability Office talking about 
how the SBA is not passing muster when it comes to helping 
small businesses. So it is an agency that has a mission. It is 
not succeeding very well at that mission and we are talking 
about accountability.
    The SBA is not doing a great job of being accountable for 
helping small businesses and now they want to take on another 
role, which is registering voters.
    And so I want to go back to you, Ms. Parker. When you were 
testifying you quoted the SBA's mission. Would you mind just 
repeating that?
    Ms. PARKER. Sure.
    Ms. MALOY. Sorry. I will give you a second to find it in 
your notes.
    Ms. PARKER. Thank you, Congresswoman. The SBA's mission is 
to, and I quote, ``Aid, counsel, assist, and protect insofar as 
is possible the interests of small business concerns,'' end 
quote.
    Ms. MALOY. Thank you. So they are supposed to aid and 
protect small business concerns. And we have had testimony, and 
I know you weren't here so I am just going to tell you. We have 
had testimony in front of this committee that they are not 
passing their audits at doing that job.
    And now we are here talking about how they are trying to 
take on a new job and it just doesn't pass the red face test.
    They are registering voters, not nationwide but in swing 
states and specifically in very blue parts of those swing 
states.
    Mr. Whitson, you talked about the lack of transparency and 
we have kind of hinted at that, but would you just take one 
minute and elaborate on the lack of transparency because I 
think that speaks to the accountability piece of this?
    Mr. WHITSON. No, I think that is exactly right. Thank you 
for that question, Congresswoman. And so if this was above 
board, if it was everything the other side claims it is 
wouldn't you be shouting from the hills the details of this 
plan?
    Wouldn't you be proud to go on and say exactly what SBA is 
doing and where it is doing and how it is doing it if it were 
above board?
    And so the lack of transparency is a huge problem. It was a 
problem from day 1. The order came out in 2021. My 
organization, FGA, filed a Freedom of Information Act request 
to answer these questions, to say we will take your word that 
this is above board and we just want to see the details to make 
sure that is the case.
    And this is going to shock the Members, but we were 
stonewalled. And so we sued the Biden administration in federal 
court in Florida and that lawsuit is still ongoing, but what we 
have uncovered is the same kind of alarming stuff.
    So we have found listening sessions with less left-wing 
groups coaching the agencies before these strategic plans came 
out, coaching them on what their strategic plans should look 
like.
    And so we can see the participants at these listening 
sessions and it is all the same left-wing groups. And one of 
them, DEMOS, actually crafted the plan, this whole idea of 
using executive order to exploit a section of Section 7 of the 
NVRA that had never been used in the 30 years existence of the 
NVRA, never had this section been used that is being used for 
the first time by Biden's team.
    There are other agencies under other parts of the NVRA that 
the other witness was alluding to, but not under this section. 
This is the first time and that is according to the White House 
because they bragged that this was the first time ever in the 
30 years existence this had been done.
    Ms. MALOY. Thank you. So if we are talking about the proper 
role of government, the SBA is playing a role that isn't their 
proper role. And if we are talking about accountability, they 
are not being accountable or transparent about what they are 
doing.
    That is why we are here talking about this. This is a 
problem and it is Congress' job to oversee.
    Ms. Danetz, you talked in your testimony about making sure 
we register all eligible voters. In fact, you stopped and 
emphasized all eligible voters, but this isn't really an effort 
to register all eligible voters, is it? It is targeted at 
specific areas in a specific state that could change the 
outcome of a presidential election.
    I actually don't have a question. I just wanted to say it. 
I don't want to use any of my time on it.
    Mr. Morales, for closing, you talked about approved 
entities and state functions. What is the state's function when 
it comes to registering voters?
    Mr. MORALES. Easy and simple to register eligible who 
Hoosiers to vote in my state.
    Ms. MALOY. And each state has the same responsibility. 
There is a state elections official. They are responsible for 
registering eligible voters, correct?
    Mr. MORALES. That is correct. And there has to be a clear 
separation.
    Ms. MALOY. And how excited are you about the idea of the 
federal government coming in and stepping on your toes and 
playing your role?
    Mr. MORALES. I am not excited about that.
    Ms. MALOY. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. [Presiding.] The lady yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Stauber from the great state 
of Minnesota for 5 minutes.
    Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much. In my over 5 years 
representing northern Minnesota, not once, not once has a small 
business owner come up to me and said the way to improve their 
business struggles is through increasing voter registration.
    They usually reference topics like inflation, workforce 
issues, and overburdensome regulations, all issues that have 
become worse under this current administration.
    A day after the SBA's MOU with the Michigan Department of 
State was released, Administrator Guzman sat in this very 
hearing room and avoided addressing the question of why this 
program was necessary for the SBA to lead.
    I asked her directly where in the SBA's congressional 
mandate is election part of the Small Business Administration's 
responsibility? Her response was that this MOU was not election 
work. However, it is clear by the testimony today no one 
believes that.
    There are some discrepancies with the statement made by SBA 
officials and the descriptions in SBA documents. The 
involvement of the SBA will go much further than just providing 
a URL on its website.
    The SBA also agreed to provide voter registration training 
to all SBA personnel conducting activities under the MOU, 
assist voters in completing voter registration applications, 
and create data security protocols for handling data from the 
URL.
    Mr. Whitson, are there constitutional concerns as to why 
the federal government should refrain from participating in the 
elections process?
    Mr. WHITSON. Thank you for that question, Mr. Congressman. 
So yes, of course, there are, so under the elections clause 
that we point out, Article I, Section 4, Clause 1, but also 
under the Administrative Procedure Act is a federal law that 
forbids federal agencies from acting outside of the scope of 
the power delegated to them by Congress and also outside of the 
scope of the Constitution. So it is violating the 
Administrative Procedure Act as well.
    Mr. STAUBER. And so why do you think the first state 
selected by Joe Biden's Small Business Administration to 
implement this MOU was the state of Michigan?
    Mr. WHITSON. Well, I think it is clear it is because it is 
a key battleground state and there are strong allies in that 
state that were willing to form this agreement with them.
    Mr. STAUBER. So if they truly wanted to help small 
businesses like they say, they would have gone into the Upper 
Peninsula of Michigan where per capita there are more small 
businesses in the Upper Peninsula. But you know what? That is 
red country. That is Republicans out there.
    This is clearly for political purposes. And it is 
unconscionable that the American people, our taxpayer money is 
going towards this.
    Ms. Danetz, as I discussed, roughly 91 percent of Michigan 
voters are registered to vote, with small businesses owners 
more likely to vote than the general population. If the purpose 
of the executive order is to register voters on a nonpartisan 
basis, why didn't the SBA enter into an MOU with states that 
have lower voter registrations than Michigan, which is at 91 
percent?
    Ms. DANETZ. Again, as I said earlier to another 
Congressmember's question, SBA's ability to enter into these 
agreements is contingent on state election officials or the 
states making a designation.
    In December of 2021, the Biden administration made clear 
that SBA was available for designation, and I imagine Michigan 
was the only state that stepped forward.
    Mr. STAUBER. Through our investigation this committee has 
uncovered that a majority of SBA events have occurred in the 
southern portion of Michigan, mainly in Democratic strongholds. 
That is crystal clear to the American people.
    Ms. Parker, to the best of your knowledge, is this the 
region of Michigan with the largest percentages of small 
businesses?
    Ms. PARKER. I don't know the answer to that in the state of 
Michigan.
    Mr. STAUBER. Where does voter registration rank on concerns 
from small business owners?
    Ms. PARKER. Our small business owners have not registered 
that in any way, shape, or form. What they talk about to us is 
the credit crunch, inflation, and issues like that, the 
onslaught of the regulations that are just killing them.
    Mr. STAUBER. The small businesses haven't come to you and 
said we need to register more voters, the owners of those small 
businesses? What they are talking about inflation, workforce 
issues, burdensome regulations. Is that correct?
    Ms. PARKER. That is correct.
    Mr. STAUBER. What should the SBA be doing to help small 
businesses instead of taking time to register people to vote?
    Ms. PARKER. The SBA needs to be an internal voice for the 
administration and educate the administration on the effect of 
the $1.6 trillion worth of regulations that have been passed 
under this administration, of which $1.2 trillion have been 
passed in this year alone. Those are the things that are 
hurting our small businesses.
    These are one-size-fits-all regulations that many of the 
agencies are not even following the law to measure how they 
impact small businesses and measure if it is going to be a 
disproportionate impact on them.
    Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. My time is up 
and I yield.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Alford from the great state 
of Missouri for 5 minutes.
    Mr. ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Small Business 
Administration was created in 1953 by President Eisenhower with 
the mission to aid, counsel, assist, and protect the interests 
of small business concerns, preserve free competitive 
enterprise, and maintain and strengthen the overall economy of 
our nation. It was not created to register voters.
    Yet despite this clear and obvious mission to help small 
businesses, Administrator Guzman has spent her time flying to 
the South by Southwest Film Festival or to Togo or to swing 
states to register voters for the Democrat Party.
    In fact, Administrator Guzman often travels to Michigan and 
other battleground states, including Democrat Members of 
Congress with her, President Biden, Vice President Harris, 
other senior White House officials.
    While at these inherently political events, Guzman makes 
statements showcasing investments in Michigan communities, 
especially on trips related to President Biden's Investing in 
America Tour promoting the Biden-Harris administration's small 
business boom.
    So basically what they are doing they are taking the show 
on the road. They go to Michigan and say, hey, look what we 
have done for you. Would you like to register to vote?
    Folks, it is very simple why we are here today, and I 
strongly disagree with the Ranking Member. This is not 
rhetoric, Mr. Chair. This is reality.
    The Small Business Administration is engaged in 
electioneering at the taxpayers' expense, and you wonder why 
they don't want us to come over to their office? You wonder why 
we have to introduce the Congressional Access to Bureaucratic 
Offices Act so we can go over and see what they are doing.
    We go over there and there is an empty desk. It is time to 
get back to work and not electioneering.
    I want to show you a map, if we can hold this up here? 
Let's get this on camera. There we go. So this is a map of 
Michigan. These areas down here, as mentioned before, Michigan 
is a Democratic state pretty much. It is kind of in the middle, 
but it is nowhere near where Indiana is and on our plus-11 on 
the Cook Survey.
    These areas down here, these counties are blue strike-
through areas. Those have the highest number of registered 
voters recently.
    Well, guess what the red dots indicate? Those are the 
visits by Guzman and the Small Business Administration on this 
tour to register voters. It looks like they have accomplished 
what they want, Democrat gains, strong Democrat gains from 2020 
to 2022. They have done 15 visits in these areas. The map does 
not lie.
    Mr. Whitson, I know your organization has been closely 
tracking this administration's use of taxpayer money in 
campaign activities. Is this a violation of the Hatch Act, if 
not in the letter of the law but in the spirit of the law?
    Mr. WHITSON. It arguably is and so that is the key 
question. Administrator Guzman's actions are questionable, but 
the facts aren't known yet. But any activity happening by local 
people on the ground could fall to that level.
    And then we--and I will leave it at that.
    Mr. ALFORD. Well, I think it is deplorable, especially when 
there are small businesses out there suffering under the 
inflation that this administration has caused for this 
demonization of fossil fuels.
    And the SBA, which is not doing a great job of providing 
the capital nor the resources nor the counseling, that is why 
we have had to introduce the Rural Business Performance Act. 
That is why we have introduced the SERVE Act to get the Small 
Business Administration off its butt to help our veterans.
    I do want to correct the record in one aspect. Ms. Danetz 
said that the reason the SBA isn't in Florida or Ohio because 
the states did not reach out to the SBA for help? Well, I want 
to be clear for the record that Michigan did not reach out to 
the SBA for help. The SBA reached out to them.
    Mr. Morales, in the short time that we have left, has the 
SBA volunteered to come to your great state and do some 
wonderful thing in the great state of Indiana?
    Mr. MORALES. They have not yet and I have yet to meet with 
them.
    Mr. ALFORD. Would you like to?
    Mr. MORALES. If they want to work with my office 
specifically helping small business owners, of course, not for 
elections.
    Mr. ALFORD. Well, wait a minute. That is their job is to 
help small businesses. You don't want them to come help 
register voters even if they are Republican?
    Mr. MORALES. When it comes to registering voters that is my 
job in my election division.
    Mr. ALFORD. Thank you for being here, our witnesses. This 
is disgusting what is happening. We have got to protect our 
elections and we have got to get the Small Business 
Administration back to the business of doing business in 
America and from main street.
    Thank you and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    And with that, I would like to thank our witnesses for your 
testimony today and for appearing here.
    And before we end this hearing I would like to submit a 
letter for the record also from America's SBDCs stating that 
they do not want to be involved in these voter registration 
efforts. And without objection, we will do that.
    Now, without objection, Members have 5 legislative days to 
submit additional materials and written questions for the 
witnesses to the Chair which will be forwarded to the 
witnesses. So I ask the witnesses to please respond promptly if 
that occurs.
    If there is no further business, without objection, the 
committee is adjourned. Thank you.
    [Whereupon, at 12:31 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
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