[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                                
 
                        THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS:
                       NORTH DAKOTA PERSPECTIVES

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

    SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY, AND ENFORCEMENT

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                        WEDNESDAY, MAY 29, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-82

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
         
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
 
         
         
         
         


               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
               
               
               
                       ______

             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 55-970            WASHINGTON : 2024   
               
               
               
               
               
               
                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

DARRELL ISSA, California             JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking 
MATT GAETZ, Florida                      Member
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  ZOE LOFGREN, California
TOM McCLINTOCK, California           SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin               STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., 
CHIP ROY, Texas                          Georgia
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina           ADAM SCHIFF, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             ERIC SWALWELL, California
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          TED LIEU, California
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
BEN CLINE, Virginia                  J. LUIS CORREA, California
KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota        MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            LUCY McBATH, Georgia
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
KEVIN KILEY, California              DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming             CORI BUSH, Missouri
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               GLENN IVEY, Maryland
LAUREL LEE, Florida                  BECCA BALINT, Vermont
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
Vacancy

                                 ------                                

            SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY,
                            AND ENFORCEMENT

                   TOM McCLINTOCK, California, Chair

KEN BUCK, Colorado                   PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington, 
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                      Ranking Member
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin               ZOE LOFGREN, California
CHIP ROY, Texas                      J. LUIS CORREA, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 ERIC SWALWELL, California
WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   Vacancy

               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
         AARON HILLER, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                        Wednesday, May 29, 2024

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on 
  Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State 
  of California..................................................     1
The Honorable Kelly Armstrong, a Member of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of North Dakota.......................     3

                               WITNESSES

The Hon. Drew H. Wrigley, Attorney General, North Dakota
  Oral Testimony.................................................     5
  Prepared Testimony.............................................     8
Jesse Jahner, Sheriff, Cass County, North Dakota
  Oral Testimony.................................................    12
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    15
Rebecca Davis, Executive Director, Wahalla Area Chamber of 
  Commerce
  Oral Testimony.................................................    18
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    21
Roger Hutchinson, Sheriff, Renville County, North Dakota
  Oral Testimony.................................................    24
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    27

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on 
  Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement are listed 
  below..........................................................    51

A letter to Alejandro Mayorkas from Members of Congress, March 
  25, 2024, submitted by the Honorable Mike Kelly, a Member of 
  the Committee on Ways and Means from the State of Pennsylvania, 
  for the record
A letter to the North Dakota and South Dakota Congressional 
  Delegate from Jesse Jahner, Sheriff, Cass County, North Dakota, 
  Jan. 29, 2024, submitted by the Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair 
  of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
  Enforcement from the State of California, for the record
A document entitled, ``U.S. Border Patrol Seizes 67 Abandoned 
  Firearms at the Border,'' May 29, 2024, U.S. Customs and Border 
  Protection, submitted by Kelly Armstrong, a Member of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of North Dakota, for 
  the record


                        THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS:



                       NORTH DAKOTA PERSPECTIVES

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, May 29, 2024

                        House of Representatives

            Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,

                            and Enforcement

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in 
the Alerus Center, Ballroom 3, 1200 S. 42nd Street, Grand 
Forks, North Dakota 58201, the Hon. Tom McClintock [Chair of 
the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives McClintock and Tiffany.
    Also present: Representatives Armstrong, Kelly, and 
Fischbach.
    Mr. McClintock. The House Judiciary Subcommittee on 
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement will come to 
order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare 
recess at any time.
    I want to welcome all of you here to today's hearing on 
``The Biden Border Crisis: North Dakota Perspectives.''
    Without objection Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Kelly, and Ms. 
Fischbach will be permitted to participate in today's hearing 
for the purpose of questioning witnesses and will receive five 
minutes for that purpose, and I will now recognize myself for 
an opening statement.
    Again, I want to welcome all of you here today. The 
Subcommittee meets here in Grand Forks, North Dakota, at the 
request of Congressman Kelly Armstrong. As you all know, 
Congressman Armstrong has been a leader in opposing this 
Administration's open border policies, and he wanted the 
Subcommittee to come here and listen directly to the people of 
North Dakota whose own communities have been so seriously 
harmed by this crisis.
    This is an official hearing of the House of 
Representatives, and I do want to lament the absence of any 
Democratic Members or even Democratic witnesses or staff at 
today's proceedings. This is not the first time that they have 
refused to participate in our border hearings, and I think it 
speaks volumes about their attitude toward this unprecedented 
national crisis.
    On the morning of Inauguration Day 2021, our borders were 
secure. The Trump Administration's Remain in Mexico policy had 
reduced phony asylum claims to a trickle, the border wall was 
nearing completion, and we were actually enforcing court-
ordered deportation. By the evening of that very same day, Joe 
Biden had reversed these policies and thus began the greatest 
illegal mass migration in history. Since that day, nearly six 
million illegal migrants have been allowed into this country.
    While the Border Patrol has been overwhelmed, an additional 
two million known got-aways have entered as well. Put another 
way, since Biden took office, he has admitted into our country 
an illegal population the size of eight States of the size of 
North Dakota. The laws did not change that day. The presidency 
changed. Elections have consequences, and this is the most 
tragic.
    In response, the House of Representatives passed H.R. 2, 
much of which came from this Subcommittee's work. Among other 
things, it would require future Presidents to take the steps 
that Donald Trump took that successfully secured our border. 
Senate Democrats killed that while proposing a bill that would 
actually forbid future Presidents from taking the actions that 
Trump took until illegal crossings exceed 4,000 a day, more 
than a million and a half a year, and that so-called bipartisan 
bill couldn't even pass the Senate.
    When I met with Border Patrol agents in Yuma more than a 
year ago, I said to them the Congress writes the laws, but the 
President and only the President can enforce them, so what laws 
do you need us to write. They unanimously answered, we don't 
need new laws, we need to enforce our existing laws. Now, while 
the Southern border gets all the attention, as the Border 
Patrol officers have warned us for more than three years now 
this crisis doesn't stay at the Southern border. These millions 
of unvetted, impoverished, and desperate illegal migrants are 
being trafficked into our own country into every corner of it, 
making every community a border community. As Congressman 
Armstrong has repeatedly warned us, this is having terrible 
consequences for States like North Dakota as well.
    Mr. Biden has stripped Border Patrol agents assigned to the 
Northern border to process millions of illegals at the Southern 
border. That leaves the Northern border virtually unprotected 
and drastically curtails the hours at legal ports of entry that 
communities here rely on, tearing apart their commercial and 
social connections with Canada. The number of aliens illegally 
crossing from the North, meanwhile, has increased 
exponentially, and as we will hear, the Border Patrol has now 
ceased to cooperate with local law enforcement as they 
encounter criminal illegal aliens in their own community.
    Illegal migrants now streaming across our Northern border 
and the mass migration coming up through the Southern border 
combined to doubly tax the resources of States like this one. 
Across the country, our public schools are being packed with 
illegals requiring education. Our homeless shelters and social 
programs have been overwhelmed to the point that services are 
now being cut or denied for Americans. Hospitals are forced to 
provide billions of dollars of uncompensated care. Fatal drugs 
like fentanyl are now flooding our streets. Entirely 
preventable and tragic violent crimes reported almost daily. 
Violent criminal gangs and international crime cartels are now 
operating in our cities, and sanctuary policies protect these 
criminals from deportation and, in many cases, from even 
detention.
    Today, we will hear from North Dakotans who will describe 
how things have changed for their communities and their State 
during the last 3\1/2\ years. They will describe increased 
illegal immigration and drug trafficking, increased worry about 
who and what is coming across the Northern border with Canada, 
and decreased cross-border economic activity, and here is the 
fine point of the matter. The President has the authority to 
stop all this. Trump did. Biden won't. Far worse, it is obvious 
that this is a deliberate policy of this Administration. It is 
what they promised to do. It is what they have done, and it is 
what they have defended for 3\1/2\ years. Ultimately, this 
crisis can only be fixed by replacing this Administration with 
one that is determined to secure our borders, protect our 
people, and uphold the rule of law, and that can only be done 
by the American people at the ballot box.
    I am now pleased to yield to Mr. Armstrong for opening 
remarks.
    Mr. Armstrong. Thank you, Chair, and I want to say a deep 
heartfelt thanks to you personally, the Judiciary staff and, 
most importantly, the Members who have taken the time to come 
to North Dakota to hear these stories. It is really, really 
important, and as we all know, particularly those of us who 
live here, we very much appreciate it when we have the 
opportunity to tell our story to people who might not 
understand it. We do everything we can to make you feel like 
Grand Forks is your home, like North Dakota is your home, but 
we Also recognize we are all busy. You are all busy, and it is 
not the easiest place in the world to get to, so we really, 
really appreciate the opportunity to do this.
    I am really excited about the witnesses we have here today. 
I have known most of them for as long as I have been in 
politics and some of them even before. I think that is a good 
example of what we deal with on the Northern border because 
another lifetime ago, the Attorney General was U.S. Attorney 
for the State of North Dakota. I was a wet-behind-the-ears 
young criminal defense attorney in Grand Forks, and I think 15 
of my first 20 public defender cases in Federal Court were 
illegal reentry cases. Those existed back in 2003. The first 
time I ever appeared in Federal Court was in front of 
Magistrate Senegal on a detention hearing, but the difference 
is they were detained. They were detained, and that is no 
longer the case, that is no longer the policy. That is why the 
structural difference under this Administration from prior 
Administrations is so important.
    Fast forward a lot longer, probably two summers ago, I had 
the opportunity to meet with the Grand Forks County Sheriff who 
is not a witness but is here today, and I asked him what his 
top three issues were, and he said fentanyl, fentanyl, and 
fentanyl. He gave me his top three issues. They were all the 
same thing, and you can't be farther away from the Southern 
border than Grand Forks.
    We are 70 miles from the Canadian border, but in every 
single community across the State of North Dakota, somebody is 
dying from fentanyl poisoning. A hundred percent of those 
fentanyl pills are made by the cartels in Mexico--a hundred 
percent. We oftentimes get into this conversation about whether 
they are coming in by ports of entry, between ports of entry, 
U.S. citizens, non-U.S. citizens, all those different issues. 
We lose sight of the fact of the very simple, simple fact that 
they are all made by the cartels, and they are all in our 
communities, so I don't particularly care how they are getting 
here. I want it to stop.
    You are going to hear from four witnesses who have been 
dealing with these issues from a law enforcement standpoint, 
and with all due respect to my law enforcement witnesses, I 
think I am really excited for Ms. Davis being here because what 
gets lost in this conversation is a community that shares a 
border with Canada, shares friends and family with Canada, has 
a tremendous amount of economic activity, whether it is at a 
retail store in the mall in Grand Forks, or it is trying to get 
a grain truck across, or maybe just going to your sister's 
kid's birthday party after 5 p.m. We have introduced 
legislation to revert the hours at our border crossings back to 
pre-COVID levels, but do you know how frustrated a farmer on 
the Northern border is when they can't cross over after a 
certain period of time, and then they turn on the news and they 
see what is happening at Eagle Pass?
    So, I am really excited that you all have the opportunity 
to hear not just about the stressors and the pressures that law 
enforcement is facing, that our communities are facing. Also, 
that our legal commerce is facing, because of really bad policy 
decisions by this Administration, and diversion of resources 
which are necessary to put a band-aid, essentially, on a 
gunshot wound at the Southern border. Really is disallowing 
North Dakota and Canadian businessmen and women, farmers on 
both sides of the border, friends, and family from actually 
engaging in the types of activity that they have been able to 
do their entire adult lives. Until this Administration through 
really terrible and sometimes intentional policy has taken that 
away from them.
    So, thank you all for being here. I hope we take this 
seriously. It is a serious issue. There is a reason that we 
wanted to do this hearing here, and I am glad that my North 
Dakota constituents and law enforcement officers get to tell 
your story. Thank you.
    Mr. McClintock. I want to thank you, Mr. Armstrong, for 
your leadership on this issue, for your invitation for us to 
come here to North Dakota today. I must say as a Californian, I 
love to visit States like North Dakota. It gives me a chance to 
catch up with all my former California constituents.
    Mr. Armstrong. We just made sure you didn't come in 
February.
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection, all other opening 
statements will be included in the record, and it is now my 
pleasure to introduce today's witnesses.
    We have with us today Hon. Drew Wrigley. Drew Wrigley is 
the current Attorney General of North Dakota. Mr. Wrigley has 
served the State of North Dakota twice as a U.S. Attorney and, 
also, as Lieutenant Governor. He graduated from the University 
of North Dakota with honors in economics and philosophy and 
holds a juris doctor from the American University Washington 
College of Law.
    Sheriff Jesse Jahner is the sheriff of Cass County, North 
Dakota. During his more than 25 years with the Cass County 
Sheriff's Department, he has served in multiple roles, 
including patrol deputy, detective, and captain. Sheriff Jahner 
has many awards, including three Distinguished Service Medals, 
Meritorious Unit Citation, the Sheriff's Medal, and Combat 
Action Cross. Sheriff Jahner has a Bachelor of Science degree 
from the North Dakota State University in humanities and social 
sciences with an emphasis in criminal justice, and has attended 
several leadership courses.
    Ms. Rebecca Davis is with us today. She is the Executive 
Director of the Walhalla Area Chamber of Commerce, a position 
she has held since September 2022. Originally from Monroe, 
North Carolina, Rebecca moved to Walhalla, North Dakota in May 
2021. In addition to her role at the Chamber, she is a 
dedicated Girl Scout troop leader, a small business owner, and 
a stepmom of two. Rebecca Also serves on the board for the 
Gorge Arts and Heritage Council and is a writer for the 
Borderland Press.
    Finally, we have with us Sheriff Roger Hutchinson, a 
Sheriff of Renville County, North Dakota. He has served 35 
years in local, State, and Federal law enforcement, including 
time as a patrol officer, firearms instructor, 
Counterintelligence Special Agent on the U.S. Marshals Fugitive 
Task Force, and on the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force. 
Sheriff Hutchinson has, also, deployed in support of the global 
war on terrorism. He holds a degree from Louisiana State 
University, is an honor graduate of the Federal Law Enforcement 
Training Center, and the National Sheriffs' Institute at the 
FBI Academy.
    I want to welcome all our witnesses and thank them for 
appearing today, and I will begin by swearing you in. Would you 
please rise and raise your right hand?
    Do you solemnly swear or affirm under penalty of perjury 
that the testimony you are about to give is true and correct to 
the best of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help 
you God?
    [A chorus of ayes.]
    Mr. McClintock. Let the record reflect that the witnesses 
have answered in the affirmative, and you may be seated. Please 
know that your written testimony will be entered in the record 
in its entirety and, accordingly, we ask that you summarize 
your testimony.
    Attorney General Wrigley, we will begin with you, sir.

             STATEMENT OF THE HON. DREW H. WRIGLEY

    Mr. Wrigley. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning to you and 
the Members of the Committee. To the Members of the audience 
who showed up this morning, I think it's encouraging to see so 
many people responding to a Committee hearing like this, and we 
appreciate the attention that's being paid to this important 
issue. I won't go over my bio but thank you for those 
introductions.
    I was elected Attorney General in 2022. Serving as North 
Dakota's Chief Law Enforcement Officer is a privilege and a 
solemn responsibility that I welcome each day, but the 
opportunity to come in here today to talk to you about border 
insecurity, which is what we have in this country, and the 
impact that this is having on our State is an opportunity that 
we're glad to have today. As you mentioned, I've twice served 
our State and the country as North Dakota's Presidentially 
appointed United States Attorney. Each day I draw on my 
responsibilities as the Attorney General for North Dakota. I 
draw on my experience of both as a Federal and State prosecutor 
and my time now as the Attorney General.
    As been noted elsewhere, the catastrophically porous 
Southwest border of the United States has led to the present 
reality that all America is now very much a border State, and 
I'm not referring to the Northern border impact, that North 
Dakota is very much a Southwest border State as a result of the 
policies of the last years. Our sector along the Northern 
border has long required security attention of its own, 
especially in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001, 
terrorist attacks on this Nation. However, the situation has 
deteriorated significantly in recent years, and the current 
situation is untenable with millions of illegal aliens 
streaming across the America's Southwest border.
    North Dakota is already experiencing negative law 
enforcement impacts as a result of the Biden Administration's 
refusal to shut down the border. My concern is that the worst 
is very much to come, both in the context of street crimes and 
violence being experienced even as far away here as in North 
Dakota, but as well as in the arena of America's national 
security.
    As the Attorney General of North Dakota, I have the 
privilege of overseeing the operations of our highly trained 
and well-equipped North Dakota Bureau of Criminal 
Investigation. In that capacity, I am routinely briefed on 
narcotics trafficking investigations, criminal intel gathering, 
and statistical information regarding all crimes and activity. 
While someone unfamiliar with our State might be forgiven for 
assuming that narcotics trafficking is something that happens 
somewhere else, people in North Dakota are well aware that our 
State has become a significant target region for narcotics that 
were produced in Mexico, as Congressman Armstrong was referring 
to earlier, smuggled across a relatively open international 
border between Mexico and the United States, then sold at a 
dramatic profit in a relatively prosperous State where you find 
yourselves this morning.
    Methamphetamine, marijuana, and synthetic opioids such as 
fentanyl are the poisons most commonly trafficked to North 
Dakota from Mexico. A quick view of the basic economics of 
fentanyl, by way of just one example, illustrates the problem 
exacerbated by the lax border policies of the Biden 
Administration: The large-scale production of fentanyl that is 
well-documented in Mexico, precursors coming in from China and 
other Nations produced in Mexico and then comes across the 
porous border--``porous'' is maybe giving it too much credit--
conduits into the United States. Other synthetic opioids are 
routinely available at the Southwest border for 25 cents a 
pill, 15 cents a pill, or 10 cents a pill, depending on the 
week, depending on the supply at that exact time. The pills are 
then easily transported to a variety of locations around the 
United States.
    My concerns this morning, particularly to North Dakota, we 
have become a significant draw for the traffickers because the 
premium price that is available for those pills up in our State 
is routinely $60, and it's not uncommon to have them be $80 a 
pill. A two-day car trip from the Southwest border of the 
United States. I get the information from the BCI every single 
week on seizures taking place across North Dakota how thousands 
of such pills are making their way up from the Southwest 
border. Some are coming here to be used by addicted people 
here, be pushed on to those who are not yet addicted, new 
customers, as they say, or through our area to other areas. The 
crime that accompanies this is growing in our State with each 
passing year.
    In addition to the worsening narcotics trafficking dangers 
caused by the Biden Administration's refusal to enforce the 
Southwest border, we are all faced with a perilous public 
safety crisis regarding violent criminals, enemy combatants who 
pose a clear and present danger to our national security. 
Relative to the onslaught of illegals entering our country 
through the Southwest border, the Federal effort to stop them 
is abysmal by any fair assessment. At the very same time, it 
appears as though the Biden Administration's permissiveness has 
signaled weakness at the Northern border, resulting in a 
significant uptick in illegal activity here as well, and the 
statistics are alarming.
    I recently requested a briefing from my BCI personnel with 
relevant information on the topic. I point out to the Committee 
that we have 18 ports of entry along the Northern border. It is 
a 310-mile portion of America's Northern border, and just three 
of those ports are open 24 hours a day. Travel across that 
border in our segment is robust due to commerce, due to 
tourism, and due to families on both sides of the line. 
Troublingly, however, between Fiscal Year 2021, Fiscal Year 
2022-2023 rather--border encounters for the North Dakota sector 
of the border have escalated in a dramatic rate, calling the 
integrity of the Northern border into serious question.
    Border encounters include apprehensions of illegals 
attempting to cross the border, people deemed inadmissible by 
U.S. border security personnel, and expulsions. There were 548 
such entries attempted and refused in Fiscal Year 2021, then 
2,100 in Fiscal Year 2022, and an explosive 4,444 in Fiscal 
Year 2023. Early indications are that for the Fiscal Year 2024, 
we are going to continue that statistical climb. The fact that 
these numbers would be troubling enough when viewed even as an 
affront to our national sovereignty.
    However, when we consider the fact that it took just 19 
terrorists--19 terrorists--to significantly hobble our Nation 
in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, our respective States are 
faced with the stunning reality that our communities are in 
danger and must be alerted to the reality that significant 
number of our foreign adversaries have made their way into our 
midst, and they are undermining public safety and the long-term 
national security of the United States. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    [The prepared statement of the Hon. Wrigley follows:]
    GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

    
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you very much for your testimony. Our 
next witness is Sheriff Jahner. Welcome.

               STATEMENT OF SHERRIFF JESSE JAHNER

    Sheriff Jahner. Welcome. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good 
morning, Mr. Chair, and thank you for allowing me a few minutes 
here. I appreciate Mr. Armstrong inviting us here to testify 
and, also, his cooperation over some of these issues. I've 
visited him on different occasions, and he has been very 
helpful through different obstacles that we have encountered.
    Before I get started this morning, I want the Committee to 
recognize that Cass County is not a Northern border county. 
We're just down the interstate here from Grand Forks, and I 
want to make sure that the Subcommittee understands that my 
testimony is not meant to make a political statement. It is not 
based on assumptions, hypotheticals, or opinions. It is based 
on facts. In North Dakota, sheriffs don't run on party lines. 
My intention for this testimony is to bring attention to border 
issues as they pertain to my ability as sheriff to protect 
human life, our citizens, and provide public safety.
    My name is Jesse Jahner, and I am the elected sheriff of 
Cass County, and I'm currently in my second year of my second 
term as sheriff. I was first elected in 2019, and I have served 
26 years as a law enforcement officer.
    Cass County, North Dakota, has a population of 
approximately 186,000, encompasses 1,768 square miles, and has 
27 cities. The Cass County Sheriff's Office has approximately 
235 employee positions and the Cass County Jail houses 348 
inmates. We are currently in the process of adding another 192 
beds to our jail to bring our capacity to 540 beds because of 
the overcapacity issues we are currently experiencing. A large 
number of those housed in our jail and who are most definitely 
a contributor to our overcrowding issue are incarcerated for 
charges associated with addiction, mental health, and 
homelessness.
    There are two major highways that run through Cass County, 
Interstate 94 and Interstate 29, which connects Cass County to 
both the North and South borders of the United States, making 
narcotics trafficking to our area accessible and enticing. For 
example, you can purchase M30 pills near the South border for 
as little as 25 cents a pill and sell that same pill in our 
area for $60-$80, drastically increasing profit margins, which 
is what narcotics traffickers are looking for.
    In 2023, I served as the President of the Dakota Territory 
Sheriffs Association. The Dakota Territory Sheriffs Association 
represents all sheriffs in both North and South Dakota. In that 
capacity, I wrote a letter that I have submitted as testimony 
on behalf of the Dakota Territory Sheriffs Association that 
each of you should have. In that letter, I highlighted our 
concerns over our country's lack of border security and 
enforcement of immigration laws on both the North and South 
borders, as well as the effect that it is having on communities 
in North and South Dakota. The focus of that letter were our 
concerns as sheriffs over public safety, human trafficking, 
narcotics trafficking, and overdose deaths that are occurring 
from narcotics trafficked into our communities from the 
Southern border. Those overdose deaths have been rising.
    In South Dakota, in 2022, overdose deaths totaled 35. In 
North Dakota in that same year, statewide opioid overdose 
deaths totaled 518, and fentanyl-specific deaths totaled 110. 
This increase in narcotics trafficking is not only causing loss 
of life, but also a huge strain on our criminal justice system, 
driving up our crime numbers and placing extreme pressures on 
jail capacity, addiction services, and mental health services, 
which in most cases we already lack.
    In that letter, I also mentioned quantities of narcotics 
seized, and the numbers I listed in there are specific seizures 
linked directly to the Southern border. We have seized way more 
than is listed in that letter that we know are coming up from 
the Southern border, but I listed those that directly came from 
our investigations collaborative. As I have taken part in 
numerous law enforcement intelligence briefings, we continue to 
see increased terrorism and potential threats of violence to 
our communities related to issues involving border security. 
Without the proper control of the flow or vetting of those 
entering our country, it is not a matter of if anything is 
going to happen, it is a matter of when, and how many of our 
citizens are going to be hurt or impacted. So, I ask, how did 
we not learn our lessons from September 11, 2001?
    Last, assistance from our Federal partners when it comes to 
immigration and immigration enforcement has dwindled from what 
we, what I, was used to in the past. Recently, our office 
worked through a situation involving a residence in one of our 
rural communities--Absaraka, North Dakota--where several 
individuals who are in the country illegally were and are 
occupying a residence. As my deputies and I worked through this 
situation to try and determine citizenship and check criminal 
histories, we were initially told that they were more likely 
not going to be able to assist us because of the current 
political environment. I have to ask, is this really what it 
has come down to, politics over public safety? As sheriff, I 
don't get to decide if I want to provide public safety because 
of politics.
    As we continued to work through these situations, I was met 
with what I would term a runaround or lack of importance. This 
situation occurred on a Wednesday. I began contacting Border 
Patrol on Thursday, and over the next five days, it was hard 
for me to talk to an agent. I was given the runaround. I was 
forwarded to different offices. I didn't receive callbacks 
until finally on that Monday. So, from Thursday to Monday when 
I finally talked to Border Patrol again, I said, ``hey, I just 
need to know if you guys are going to assist us or not, and if 
you are not going to, why is that,'' and I was simply given the 
response that it was because of resources.
    I do want to iterate that I do not believe that it is boots 
on the ground where we are receiving those obstacles. I believe 
it is coming up somewhere higher. I don't know where that is, 
but I really believe that the boots on the ground want to help 
us. They are just being restricted. I was eventually told that 
they could not assist us because of their lack of resources, 
and whether this was due to a resource or policy issue, or 
direction is completely unacceptable.
    As I close, I want to emphasize that this is not a Southern 
border issue. This is a national security issue and a national 
drug trafficking issue, and an inability to protect our country 
and our citizens issue. It is time to shut down the borders or 
at least come up with a structured policy that sets politics 
aside and starts putting citizens of our country first. With 
that, I would answer any questions that the Committee has for 
me. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Sheriff Jahner follows:]
    GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

    
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you very much for your testimony. 
Now, we are pleased to welcome Ms. Davis to the Subcommittee.

                   STATEMENT OF REBECCA DAVIS

    Ms. Davis. Chairperson and the distinguished Members of the 
Committee, thank you for the opportunity to address you today. 
My name is Rebecca Davis, and I am the Executive Director of 
the Walhalla Area Chamber of Commerce, and I am here to 
represent the cities of Neche and the rest of the Rendezvous 
Region as well.
    I'm here to discuss the significant impacts of the current 
border crossing hours at our local ports of entry and to 
advocate for the restoration of their former operating hours. 
The ports of entry in Walhalla and Neche currently operate on 
reduced hours. The Walhalla port of entry is open from 8 a.m.-6 
p.m., while the Neche port operates from 8 a.m.-4 p.m. In stark 
contrast, the hours to enter Canada at these same crossings 
extend until 10 p.m., which causes considerable confusion for 
travelers and disrupts the daily lives and economic activities 
of our communities.
    Prior to COVID-19, both Walhalla and Neche ports were open 
until 10 p.m., facilitating smoother cross-border interactions. 
The closest 24-hour crossing in the region is located in 
Pembina, which is 39 miles from Walhalla and 19 miles from 
Neche. The situation presents a substantial inconvenience, 
particularly considering the close-knit relationships we share 
with our Canadian neighbors.
    Walhalla is a community rich in history and natural beauty. 
It's home to the Pembina Gorge State Recreation Area, which is 
becoming North Dakota's 14th State Park, and Frost Fire Park. 
As the second oldest settlement in the Dakotas, Walhalla boasts 
a wealth of historical significance and a vibrant cultural 
heritage. These attractions draw numerous visitors from both 
sides of the border, fostering tourism and economic growth. 
However, the restricted hours at our local ports of entry 
hinder the free flow of visitors, negatively impacting local 
businesses and tourism. For instance, the Riverside campground 
located in Walhalla has seen a decline in visitors, 
particularly Canadians who are unable to come down after work 
due to the early closure of the ports. If they attempt to come 
through the Pembina crossing, they face a significant detour, 
which discourages many from visiting altogether.
    Walhalla, with a population of approximately 800 residents, 
has lost our longtime supper restaurant, a favorite among 
Canadian visitors. Jackson's Bar has seen a decline in business 
due to people not being able to come and enjoy themselves in 
the evenings as they once did. Kristi Stremick, owner of the 
Parcel Barn, had to hold on to packages for extended periods of 
time because Canadians cannot come to pick them up after work.
    Additionally, Stremick Farms, a Walhalla potato farmer, has 
experienced losses in sales and productivity as trucks sit idle 
due to reduced hours. Floyd Clark, manager of the Walhalla Co-
op, mentioned losing three hours' worth of business or three 
years' worth of business. The co-op used to be open until 10 
p.m., but now closes at 8 p.m., reducing the availability for 
cross-border trade and cooperation. Many of our young high 
school students worked at the co-op, so the reduction there 
affected them. Travelers would fill up with gas on their way 
back or grab snacks, even if they were traveling to Grand Forks 
or Fargo. Many residents in our communities have family in 
Canada, and these restrictions have strained family 
relationships. Some of those grandparents have never even been 
able to attend a school concert.
    Our town survives on Canadian business. City councilman, 
Leeroy Carpenter, shared that farm and construction companies 
have developed relationships with businesses in Winkler, making 
it easy access to parts rather than having to travel to Grand 
Forks, which is two hours away. Some of the parts aren't 
available in Grand Forks either, but a 20-minute trip to 
Winkler was used to solve that problem. Neche, with a 
population of approximately 300 residents, faces similar 
challenges. As a parent of two children, I often find myself 
needing to make last-minute trips for necessities like an 
outfit for a school concert or supplies for other school 
events. The restricted hours make it difficult to quickly 
access Canadian stores that we have long relied on for such 
needs, adding stress and inconvenience to our daily lives.
    Several residents attend church in Canada, which is 
typically a 10-mile trip. However, due to the restricted hours, 
they now face an 1\1/2\ journey to return home through the 
Pembina ports. The Walhalla and Maida ports would be the border 
crossings for the new State park, making their extended hours 
crucial for the park's success and accessibility. The Maida 
port was open until 5 p.m., or is open until 5 p.m., and had 
been extended until 7 p.m., on a trial basis, but that is a 
smaller port than the Walhalla port. Mayor Stuart Symington of 
Neche has expressed that Neche and Gretna, both being just a 
mile from the border, it is like cutting the town in half.
    The situation strains our police resources. When our 
borders are understaffed, it is the residents who often find 
those crossing illegally and call it to our Sheriff's 
Departments, diverting time and resources away from the city 
needs. The lack of adequate border staff and reduced hours had 
severe humanitarian impacts. Families and individuals crossing 
illegally have been found in perilous conditions in our fields. 
Tragically, an Indian family was found deceased, and another 
family, a mother and two children, were found with frostbite. 
They cross illegally in our region due to being told it is 
easier to cross than the Southern border, putting their lives 
at great risk, especially when they don't understand our 
climate.
    Our towns rely heavily on legal trade and travel with 
Canada. Efficient movement of goods and people help to address 
supply chain issues. It supports agriculture, energy, and 
tourism. The restricted border hours severely hamper these 
critical aspects of our local economy. The significance of the 
new State park cannot be overstated, particularly in light of 
the recent legislative approval. In 2023, the North Dakota 
legislature allocated $6 million for the development of new 
park facilities. Additionally, $2 million for the initial land 
development has been secured through a matching Federal Land 
and Water Conservation Fund grant. This funding underscores the 
State's commitment to the park's success and highlights the 
importance for restoring extended hours at the Walhalla and 
Neche ports of entry. Ensuring convenient access for visitors 
from both sides of the border is essential to maximizing the 
park's potential as a regional and economic attraction.
    In Spring 2023, the Walhalla Area Chamber of Commerce, 
along with the cities of Walhalla, Neche, and Cavalier, 
circulated a petition to restore the border crossing hours to 
their previous schedule. The petition garnered over 1,500 
signatures, demonstrating widespread support within our 
community for this change. Restoring the previous operating 
hours at the Walhalla, Neche, and Maida ports of entry is 
crucial for the well-being of our communities. It will 
alleviate confusion, support local businesses, and strengthen 
our cross-border relationships. We urge the Committee to 
consider the voices of our citizens and to take action to 
restore these hours, facilitating a return to normalcy and 
prosperity for the people of North Dakota and our Canadian 
friends.
    Thank you for your time and consideration. I am happy to 
answer any questions you may have.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Davis follows:]
    GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

    Mr. McClintock. Great. Thank you very much for your 
testimony.
    Our final witness is Sheriff Hutchinson. Welcome.

                 STATEMENT OF ROGER HUTCHINSON

    Sheriff Hutchinson. I would like to thank the Chair and the 
Committee for coming to North Dakota. Good morning. My name is 
Roger Hutchinson. I am the Sheriff of Renville County. I would 
like to say that I am in my second term as Sheriff of Renville. 
I hold board positions with the Fraternal Order of Police, the 
North Dakota Peace Officer Standards and Training Board, and 
the Dakota Territory Sheriffs' Association. I am a member of 
the National Rifle Association, the Western States Sheriffs' 
Association, and the National Sheriffs' Association. On 
multiple occasions I have raised my right hand to support both 
the United States Constitution and my State's Constitution.
    I would like to tell you a little bit about Renville 
County. We are located on the Northern border, just North of 
Minot, North Dakota. We are a rural farming community, and our 
largest industry is oil production and what supports oil. We 
are 900 square miles, we have six cities, and we have a park as 
well that supports a lot of Canadian traffic. Located between 
Renville and Minot is Minot Air Force Base. It is the Air 
Force's only dual-mission base supporting both B-52s and 
intercontinental ballistic missiles. The population at the Air 
Force Base is over 5,000 personnel, and within Renville's 
immediate area, we have three missile alert facilities and 
numerous launch facilities with accompanying troops. Our 
Sheriff's Department is the only law enforcement entity located 
within Renville County. We have seven full-time positions and 
three part-time deputies. We contract law enforcement services 
to three cities, and we provide support to the border through 
Operation Stonegarden.
    All right. A little bit about our Northern border in North 
Dakota. The Canadian border is 310 miles long and connects to 
the Canadian providences of Saskatchewan and Manitoba. There 
are 18 Customs and Border Protection ports of entry. U.S. 
Border Patrol has three stations in North Dakota--Portal, 
Bottineau and Pembina--which all fall under Grand Forks sector. 
They have approximately 200 agents. However, Grand Forks sector 
covers areas in Montana and Minnesota as well. So, those 200 
agents are actually covering 861 miles of Northern border.
    North Dakota has eight counties located on the Canadian 
border. From West to East, they are Divide, Burke, Renville, 
Bottineau, Rolette, Towner, Cavalier, and Pembina. All our 
North Dakota border counties participate in Operation 
Stonegarden, a federally funded program to support Border 
Patrol operations by providing support to local agencies with 
grants to pay for personnel to patrol that border area, 
reimburse operational costs, and purchase vital equipment to 
support the mission.
    This next section is hard for me to speak to because I know 
our Border Patrol agents with boots on the ground are not 
responsible for the policies which take personnel and money 
away from Grand Fork Sector operations. This is not meant to be 
a negative reflection of our local agents from Portal Station, 
but when I first became sheriff, I do not recall a day that 
went by that I did not see a patrol agent patrolling. At one 
time, we had four patrol agents who lived within our county and 
a resident agent in Mohawk, North Dakota. Now, we have one 
resident agent in our county who works out of Portal Station. 
Our deputies rarely see a patrol agent patrolling anywhere in 
our county. I cannot remember the last time Portal Station has 
been fully staffed.
    Discussions I have had personally in the past iterated 
patrol agents who have been temporarily deployed to the 
Southern border are having to sit in the Portal Station 
remotely, virtually processing undocumented migrants from the 
Southern border. With understaffing issues, TDYs, and virtual 
processing, who is left to patrol the border? I have been told 
the TDY rate has slowed and the number of PAs in Portal has 
increased, but we have failed to see any increased patrols in 
our area. Our sheriff's office typically has one deputy patrol 
per shift, and we came to rely on patrol agents to be in our 
area to assist if needed. Sadly, those days have long passed.
    As I prepared my testimony, I reached out to North Dakota 
Sheriffs on the Southern border. For those who chose to 
respond, the stories were familiar. We all have good working 
relationships with our local station and patrol agents, but I 
have noticed a decline in their presence and our services.
    Recently, a North Dakota Patrol Station Chief provided a 
presentation at our North Dakota Sheriff's Conference where he 
outlined the current policy being followed. The current policy 
was not to respond to any instance in which undocumented 
migrants were detained by local law enforcement unless other 
mitigating circumstances arose, such as criminal charges. Even 
with some criminal charges, such as property damage to a 
farmer's field, the individuals were still released.
    Our North Dakota sheriffs have had to deal with border-
related dead bodies, high-speed pursuits, responding to 
numerous border incursions, property damage to croplands, fence 
cutting, humanitarian rescues in extreme conditions, illegal 
substances, counterfeit goods, and subjects with warrants. 
Grand Forks sector acknowledged Pembina Station is their 
busiest station for cross-border activity and recently seized 
65 firearms attempting to be smuggled into Canada. The majority 
of the nationalities that we have come across are Nigerians, 
Romanians, and Indians. However, our biggest concern is who we 
did not catch.
    We have a wide open, vast border with no natural physical 
barriers and very few manmade ones. I have traveled to the 
Southern border and seen firsthand the chaos our law 
enforcement deals with on a daily basis and also the unintended 
consequences of our current immigration policy. I am in no way 
comparing our Northern border to the Southern border, but what 
I am saying is that our Northern border is open and not secure. 
Canada's entry requirements into the country different from the 
U.S., which provides opportunity for would-be bad actors to 
easily gain entry into the U.S.
    One last concern would be the operating times of certain 
points of entry, which are not open 24 hours. Our North Dakota 
POEs close at 7 p.m., but Canadian POEs are open until 10 p.m., 
thereby allowing traffic to pass through our POE with the gates 
left open. There is nothing to stop the Southbound traffic into 
the U.S.
    Again, I would like to thank the Committee for making a 
trip to North Dakota and listening to the issues that would 
affect North Dakotans. I hope we continue to move forward in 
reducing the number of undocumented migrants across our borders 
and the crimes they are associated with. I believe hearings 
such as these, help to bring light to the issues. Please leave 
here knowing that North Dakota sheriffs will keep doing their 
part to keep our citizens safe.
    Thank you for allowing my testimony. I will be happy to 
answer any questions, and as part of my written testimony have 
submitted some photographs, so if you have questions on those, 
I will be glad to answer as well. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Sheriff Hutchinson follows:]
    GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

    
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. We appreciate that. We will now 
proceed under the 5-minute rule of questions, and the Chair 
recognizes Mr. Tiffany.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for 
another hearing in regard to every State being a border State.
    Sheriff Hutchinson, FBI Director Wray, when he appeared 
before this Committee in the last year, he said the terror 
threat and the danger as a result of what is happening at the 
border has never been higher and he is very concerned. Do you 
agree with his assessment?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. I absolutely agree.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, Secretary Mayorkas of Homeland Security 
has downplayed that. He has said that, ``no, the Southern 
border is not really any worse than it has been previously, and 
does not agree with Director Wray.'' Which one do you agree 
with?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. I agree with Director Wray.
    Mr. Tiffany. Also, I don't know if you have ever met a man 
named Sheriff Mark Dannels from Cochise County in Arizona. He 
told us in Washington, DC, under questioning, under oath, that 
the amount of fentanyl coming into this country was severely 
exacerbated as a result of the border being opened on January 
20, 2021, as the Chair alluded to. Do you agree with Sheriff 
Dannels?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. I do agree, yes.
    Mr. Tiffany. Secretary Mayorkas was there that same day 
when Sheriff Dannels made his statement, or Secretary Mayorkas 
at least heard it, and he downplayed it and said that, 
``Sheriff Dannels was incorrect.'' Who do you believe is 
correct, Secretary Mayorkas or Sheriff Dannels?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. I believe that Sheriff Dannels is 
correct.
    Mr. Tiffany. Sheriff Jahner, tell us a little bit about the 
scourge of fentanyl, and have you seen a rapid uptick here in 
North Dakota over the last few years of fentanyl-related 
deaths?
    Sheriff Jahner. Mr. Chair and Mr. Tiffany, most definitely 
that we have. As I mentioned in my testimony, North Dakota is a 
ripe area for narcotics trafficking because of the increase in 
profits that narcotics traffickers can make from selling their 
product in North Dakota or South Dakota. Typically, what we see 
is narcotics being trafficked up to the Southern border to what 
we would consider hub cities. Those hub cities for North Dakota 
typically are Chicago and Minneapolis. For South Dakota, it is 
typically up to Denver, and we see some stuff directly coming 
in from the borders just directly in without going through 
those hub cities.
    We have most definitely seen an increase in the amount of 
fentanyl that we have been seizing. My testimony is very 
specific in the quantities that I put in the Dakota Sheriffs 
Association letter that I presented. Those are based on me 
visiting with our narcotics investigators who, through their 
investigations, visit with, of course, suspects, victims, 
witnesses who have directly linked fentanyl trafficking back to 
the Southern border through those interviews.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, you have seen a serious uptick, is that 
correct, in the use of fentanyl and the number of deaths?
    Sheriff Jahner. Yes, that is correct.
    Mr. Tiffany. Attorney General, we have heard about the 
presence of gangs in Montana. At least I have seen news 
stories, especially infiltrating some of the tribes out there. 
Are you seeing anything like that in North Dakota? When I say 
that, the gang-related stuff that is coming up from Mexico.
    Mr. Wrigley. Mr. Chair, Mr. Tiffany, the answer is yes. 
People, I think they attribute gangs to just something that 
they see on television and then they are organized and they 
have a headquarters, that sort of thing. It is much more 
dispersed than that, and it is absolutely impacting us here 
because the profit margins are drawing the attention of any 
gang member anywhere. We have got huge gangs, large gang 
presence in Detroit, for instance, who have found avenues out 
to North Dakota. Predominantly, not only, but they are 
targeting our Native American reservations, in large part also 
because the BIA typically staffs law enforcement in this part 
of the world at about 25 percent. I can speak across 10 years 
as a United States attorney.
    So, they are under-patrolled, underserved. We had to go to 
the State legislature in the last session and ask for 
additional resources, so that we can start task forces around 
the reservation and address those openings and enforcement and 
the legislature responded, and we are attempting to make 
grounds there, but the answer is yes.
    The gangs have identified an opportunity, as I mentioned 
earlier, 2-day drive to North Dakota with pills that cost you a 
dime, 15 cents, or a quarter, quarter on a bad day, and you are 
fetching $60 a pill, on average up here. The profits are 
astronomical, and they are drawing people in. If they get 
arrested and they get incarcerated, it is not for long enough 
in North Dakota. That is a different speech, but on the Federal 
side, they just find someone else to step into that role. So, 
the pipeline is there. It is doing grievous harm out here in 
North Dakota, on the plains, but everywhere in between.
    Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Chair, may I take the liberty of asking 
one quick final question of the two sheriffs? Would you be 
willing to help a future Administration if they wanted to get 
control of illegal immigration to help return those who are 
illegally in our country? Would you be willing to help Federal 
effort in regard to this?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. I would absolutely be willing to help.
    Mr. Tiffany. Sheriff Jahner?
    Sheriff Jahner. Absolutely, without a doubt.
    Mr. Tiffany. I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Great. Thank you. I am next pleased to 
recognize Mr. Fitzgerald.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Chair. Thanks, everybody, for 
being here today. I was fortunate enough to arrive early 
yesterday, and Sheriff Terry Menninger, who is here with us, 
Sheriff, was very generous with his time and was able to take 
myself and a couple of staff people on a tour of the area all 
the way up to the border, and I certainly appreciate that. We 
had a great discussion on kind of what is going on logistically 
and kind of the inner workings, I guess, of all the different 
levels of law enforcement and how they deal with not only 
enforcement, but the cooperative efforts when it comes to the 
border.
    Patrol Agent Andrew Massaro, I don't know that Andrew made 
it today, with the U.S. Border Patrol, fabulous briefing, gave 
us a lot of information and certainly an overview of all the 
ports of entry. So, I thought was very valuable, and I wanted 
to thank him as well. Ms. Davis, I wish you were with us 
yesterday because when we went up to the port of entry, I could 
have put those homeland security guys on their heels with those 
questions that you asked earlier, so we will see if we can help 
followup on some of that stuff. I think it would be valuable.
    I guess where I wanted to start was with the Attorney 
General. You touched on a little bit, but there are many 
levels, obviously, of law enforcement, and it is a puzzle, but 
at the end of the day, you still have to be able to come up 
with the resources to fund all these different levels of law 
enforcement. I was wondering if you could just talk a little 
bit about your view from the AG's level on and how that filters 
down?
    Mr. Wrigley. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Fitzgerald, well, in 
North Dakota, Federal law enforcement is under person, I will 
say. We got great agents, but there aren't enough of them, and 
without dovetailing together Federal, State, local Tribal law 
enforcement, you wouldn't have meaningful impactful enforcement 
in North Dakota. So, thankfully, people work together well 
here. The sheriffs work well together. Our BCI has statewide 
reach and works well, the police departments, the sheriffs' 
departments, and then the Federal entities that are here.
    The one that sticks out to me glaringly all the time is 
that the BIA is so grotesquely under understaffed and 
underfunded, and part of that is historically because they are 
through the Interior Department as opposed to through the 
Department of Justice where there can be some coordination, 
understanding and deploying of the resources. The agents that 
are here, the BIA agents that are here are very good. They 
rotate through--well, that is a different question--but it 
creates a real lapse that has to be filled and is filled by our 
Sheriffs' Departments, do a tremendous job around the same, 
working well together in their own counties and with each other 
and same with the police departments, and we try to be part of 
that. That glue makes us stick together, too.
    There are real glitches in the funding mechanisms for a 
Federal enforcement. I won't speak on behalf of the Department 
of Justice in this instance, but I know that they could use 
more resources and we can use them as well.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you. Very good. Ms. Davis, I want to 
kind of go back to your topic again because in Wisconsin, I 
represent the 5th District in the West suburbs of Milwaukee and 
a couple of counties, Dodge and Jefferson County that are very 
rural. Our State itself had $8.5 billion in goods that were 
moved through the export market, so I know it is a huge issue, 
really for everybody, and I am sure some States don't even 
realize that. This inadequate staffing is not something I have 
just heard here, but also when you are at the Southern border 
for some of those ports of entry as well. So, can you just tell 
us with the reduced hours, that you were talking about earlier, 
have you seen this happen gradually, or it is just something 
that happened all of a sudden and then you had to deal with the 
impact of that as the Chamber of Commerce?
    Ms. Davis. Mr. Fitzgerald and Chair, I believe what 
happened was everything shut down for COVID. Then when the rest 
of the world essentially, or at least the rest of the U.S., 
went back to normal, the Northern border was essentially 
forgotten about. The border was opened back up to reduced hours 
being 5:00 in Maida, 4:00 in Neche, and 6:00 in Walhalla. Then, 
they just were like, oh, you are good, you don't need any 
additional people when we do have the traffic and we are losing 
out on that. So, I think it was just a sudden thing that once 
COVID happened, they shut the border down. Then they brought it 
back, but the rest of the world went back to normal, and we 
were just forgotten.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes, and it is similar to what I think we 
heard yesterday in the discussions we had. To the two sheriffs, 
so when Border Patrol agents from North Dakota are detailed to 
process illegal aliens who enter through the Southwest border, 
those agents are obviously not performing daily functions. Do 
you feel like in your integration to those different levels of 
law enforcement, do you guys feel like there are adequate 
resources there, or are you watching Border Patrol have to not 
complete all those tasks so that falls on you guys? I was 
wondering if you could just comment on that.
    Sheriff Hutchinson. Sure. Mr. Chair, Mr. Fitzgerald, 
whenever the Border Patrol agent has to sit in his office and 
virtually process someone on the Southern border, I appreciate 
the fact that it is saving the Federal Government some money by 
not having to TDY him down to the Southern border, but he is 
not out on patrol. He sits there for his whole shift, 
processing migrants that are coming across the Southern border, 
and he is not out on patrol. So, if they still have people that 
are TDY down there or they are sitting in the office and not 
able to leave, they are not out there patrolling.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Very good. Sheriff, do you have a comment 
on that one?
    Sheriff Jahner. Mr. Chair and Mr. Fitzgerald, yes. Thanks 
for the question. For us not being a border county, we are a 
little bit different because we are a little bit farther away 
from the border, so it takes those resources a little bit of 
time to get to us. When we come into contact with people that 
are in the country illegally, literally what we are looking for 
and assistance from those agencies is to be able to maybe 
conduct a translation for us if we don't have resources to do 
that, but then also to help us verify criminal histories, 
because I think everyone here on the Subcommittee understands 
that when we run a criminal history check on someone, we are 
checking them through our resources that are United States-wide 
NCIC. We don't have access to checking criminal histories like 
our Federal partners do.
    So, for us as sheriffs, like I mentioned earlier in my 
testimony, it is important to us that we can protect our 
citizens in the counties that we serve. Without understanding 
what people's criminal histories are and being given the 
direction, that they can't do anything that we should just let 
them go, that doesn't give us a good feeling because now we are 
letting someone go and we don't have any idea who they are, so 
that has become a problem. I think it is a resource issue, like 
I mentioned before.
    Again, when we talk to our Border Patrol partners, the 
boots on the ground, that they are not telling us simply, hey, 
we don't want to help you. They are simply saying that they 
can't, or they don't have the resources, they don't have the 
time to come and do that, so that is where we run into these 
issues. In my particular situation where I was referring to 
Absaraka, I was able to get a hold of ERO through that process, 
which is, as you guys know, the enforcement branch and 
deportation of ICE and Border Patrol. The ICE agent that I 
spoke with was very helpful. They did eventually come out to 
assist me at the residence. That same with our U.S. Attorney, 
was very helpful. It was just a lack of resources on Border 
Patrol's end of things.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Very good. Thank you all for being here. I 
yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Great. Thank you. Ms. Fischbach.
    Ms. Fischbach. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and 
thank you for allowing me the opportunity to participate today.
    So, many of you know I am right across the State border, so 
I represent about half of Minnesota's border with Canada, and 
so a lot of the issues that I am hearing today, we are facing, 
too, and so love to be partners on that. I am glad that I have 
the opportunity to speak right after Mr. Fitzgerald, because I 
had a couple of followup questions, and I was going to ask you, 
Ms. Davis, about when the change was made, and you mentioned 
COVID, and we have got some of the same issues at our border 
crossings in Minnesota. Maybe a little followup for the 
sheriffs.
    Sheriff Jahner, you mentioned one very specific incident 
with the illegals occupying a house where you couldn't get the 
help you needed, and I was just kind of curious, when did that 
become more of an issue? In the past, have the Patrol Agents 
been very helpful? I am just wondering if it is more of a 
trend, because you did mention it was politics over policy in 
your opening statement, and so I am just kind of curious about 
that.
    Sheriff Jahner. Yes. Mr. Chair and Ms. Fischbach, thanks 
again for the question. Probably over maybe the last year, year 
and a half, the situation that I spoke to in Absaraka, is this 
one that I brought to light. We have had other instances where 
our deputies have made traffic stops with people who are in the 
country illegally, and typically through those interactions 
we'll contact Border Patrol as well to look for guidance maybe 
based on the information that person has given us, and even on 
our traffic stops we are not getting the help that we used to. 
So, typically, when we would contact them, if we had concerns 
or issues with someone, and maybe stories not making sense in 
our interactions with these individuals, they will come out and 
assist us through those investigations. Most certainly, 
operating the jails as a sheriff when we are able to detain 
people for illegal activity, we have seen a little bit of maybe 
decrease in that as well where our Border Patrol agents would 
typically come down to our jail and help further those 
interviews, those investigations. Typically, now it is more 
over the phone that those type of interactions happen.
    Again, much like Sheriff Hutchinson said, this is not meant 
to provide any negative commentary for boots on the ground, 
because we have worked with those individuals for a long time 
and they are good partners. I think they are being restricted, 
and they don't have the resources to accommodate our requests.
    Ms. Fischbach. No, I appreciate that because I think that 
is happening a lot. Actually, I believe it was Mr. Tiffany who 
mentioned the sheriff down in Cochise County, and I was down 
there visiting the border, too. I can't remember, was it Ways 
and Means or what Committee we were there for, but we were 
visiting the border. It was funny because that sheriff actually 
mentioned the Northern border that he saw it was an issue 
there. So, he is sitting there on the Southern border with what 
is all happening there, but he recognizes that it is a huge 
issue, too, and so we need to deal with the border, period. We 
should not talk about Southern or Northern, but we need to deal 
with the border because it is a little like a balloon. When you 
push on one side, then they are going to find another way in, 
and so we need to recognize that.
    Sheriff Hutchinson, what is your experience? As we are 
taking a look at their assistance, and I agree that we 
shouldn't blame the actual agents because I think it is coming 
from the top down. They are being pushed in different 
directions, but has your experience with assistance been 
similar?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. Mr. Chair, Ms. Fischbach, yes, ma'am. 
It is definitely a change in how they operate that I am 
assuming is policy related. So, whenever a Chief of Portal 
Station comes to a Sheriffs' Association and literally says 
that their policy is not to respond if it is just undocumented 
migrant, which before they would definitely send a patrol agent 
out to interview and process the person. Even if they didn't 
start deportation procedures, at least that person was in the 
system and now that is not happening.
    Ms. Fischbach. Again, I am almost out of time, but I 
appreciate all of you forbeing here and sharing the information 
you have and sharing the stories, but I appreciate the public 
being here, too, and the Members because it is important that 
we get out here and we hear about what is going on, and so I 
appreciate them coming way up to North Dakota. We could have 
gone to Minnesota, but hey no, I appreciate it because it is a 
huge issue.
    I think that with the Southern border, getting all of the 
attention, we have to continue and they are not paying 
attention to the Northern border. Like you said, ``everybody 
went back to normal and they forgot about the Northern 
border,'' and so we need to make sure that we are addressing 
that. So, I appreciate all of you sharing your stories, and I 
will say they are similar to what we are experiencing in 
Minnesota. So, thank you very much, and I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you very much. Next is the gentleman 
from Pennsylvania, Mr. Kelly.
    Mr. Kelly. Thank you, Chair. Thank all of you for being 
here. This is difficult to sit and listen to because we keep 
asking when something is going to take place. When are we going 
to do something about this? I don't know, looking out at your 
faces, if any of you have lost a child to these overdoses. Part 
of my life has been spent coaching little kids in baseball and 
football. I can tell you, as a person, there is nothing more 
uplifting than to see the birth of a child. There is nothing 
more heartbreaking than to bury a child. When I see what is 
happening in our country today, and we come here to talk to you 
because we brought the Congress to the country to hear what you 
are going through.
    Now, Mr. Chair, I am going to submit this letter. This is 
to Secretary Mayorkas. We asked him back on, I believe it was 
in March, to please respond to us no later than April 25th.
    I don't know, he must have misplaced his calendar. You 
never get an answer from any of these people.
    Mr. Kelly. Now, Chair, you started off, we talked about is 
it a red issue. Is it a blue issue? What issue is it? Is it the 
Republicans, is it the Democrats? The answer is, yes, it is all 
of us. My question is, where is the outrage from the American 
people? How can we sit back and watch this dereliction of duty? 
Chief, you said it. You raised your hand and you take an oath 
of office. If you don't want to do the job, don't take the 
oath. If you are not going to enforce the laws, drop out of 
that part of society. If you are going to sit back and watch an 
entire Nation crumble and lose the most important part of our 
future because children represent about 25 percent of our 
population, they are 100 percent of our future. How long can we 
sit and wait? How long can we be told you are fools, there is 
no problem there and what? They right. The problem is 
everywhere, not just there.
    Now, when I read your testimony, and I got to tell you, 
this stuff is of stuff that makes you want to stand up and say, 
I am not going to put up with this, I am not going to stand for 
this, I am not going to allow this to go on and on and on. I am 
tired of burying little kids that I coached. I am tired of 
watching my own son sitting in a prison, not because he 
committed a crime, but because he is an addict. All of us 
should be just outraged at what is happening in this country, 
the fact that we are so calm and so under control. What this 
Administration wants you to believe, there is no problem here, 
move on, folks. You are imagining it, it doesn't exist. 
Sheriffs, when I read your testimony, Ms. Davis when I read 
your testimony, it is something else. It is not heartbreaking. 
I am tired of people telling me they are heartbroken. I said, 
well then, get off your rear end and do something about it. 
Don't let your heart break. Put it back together and go and 
fight for the future.
    General, you and I talked a little bit outside, and I want 
to get down to this because you can't fix something with 
nothing. We have laws on the books. Like people keep telling me 
you guys in Congress better pass something. I said, we have. We 
are the legislative body. It then goes to the executive branch 
to enforce. There is no enforcement. People have to be held 
accountable for their breaking their oath of office. General, 
you had some ideas because as I said, you can't fix something 
with nothing, so we know we have all these folks here. There is 
no airplane, there is no bus, there is no ship that you put 
them all on and take them back to wherever it is that they came 
from. What is it that we have to do?
    Mr. Wrigley. I have to answer that everything we are going 
to do. Mr. Chair, Mr. Kelly, I appreciate it. Now, you made a 
mistake. You gave me your cellphone because you and I are going 
to be friends, I can tell, and I wish that my colleagues in the 
Attorney General's office are watching right now, because this 
is the way most of our days start as we discuss the news of the 
day and what is going on with this level of passion, what you 
are describing.
    One of the discussions we had, and if you are referencing 
in the hallway, is the idea that it is a very real problem to 
have millions of people who have come into this country 
illegally, at least hundreds of thousands of them who are 
themselves criminals, even before they make the criminal act of 
coming across the border. The Federal Government is not doing a 
good job of keeping statistics of crimes that are being 
committed in the United States by people who have recently come 
across that border. I don't blame them when you consider that 
it is their policy that it is allowing that.
    The Chair pointed out that this wasn't a problem just prior 
to the Administration taking hold and changing the policies and 
opening the doors. One of the things that we mentioned in the 
hallway was the idea, and I pledge myself to it, I can pledge 
this effort in North Dakota. If there is going to be an effort 
and there needs to be, let's say there is a change of the 
Administrations and there needs to be an effort to deport 
people who have come here illegally in way too many instances. 
It is not just anecdotal. They mean us grievous harm. They 
don't love this country. They didn't come here because they 
love the American way. I am sure they can find those anecdotes, 
too, but we understand this, and they are coming over from all 
sorts of countries, by the way, even through the Northern 
border.
    Representative Fischbach mentioned when you push the 
balloon, it expands elsewhere. Let me go through the list. I 
mentioned the border encounters. Here are the countries that 
are represented coming across the Northern border: Canada 261, 
this is just for Fiscal Year recent fiscal year; India, Mexico, 
China, Romania, Ukraine, Philippines, Brazil, Ecuador, 
Honduras, Guatemala, Colombia, and El Salvador. The most recent 
year for which we have statistics, those countries are Cuba, El 
Salvador, China, and Turkey. The list goes on and on and on. 
They are just finding a way into the country.
    So, I will pledge the Office of Attorney General in North 
Dakota to this effort, and I have already started reaching out 
to colleagues of mine around the country. It will take a 
concerted effort of the Attorneys General, large city DAs, 
people in law enforcement, sheriffs, chiefs of police, and 
other organizations to band together, pursue Federal policy of 
rounding up. It is a foul-sounding word, but it is necessary. 
They are releasing people with a slip of paper saying you have 
come to this country illegally; we will see what you at your 
hearing in 2029 or 2030. It is laughable.
    I cite to the 19 hijackers just as a historical footnote to 
remind us of when millions are coming across illegally, 
hundreds of thousands who mean us grievous harm, untold 
thousands, who are committing crimes, heinous, violent crimes 
in this country as we speak. The 19 changed the world, and now 
we have a policy all in there, except to say every one of us, 
our first act of security in our homes for the next day is to 
lock the doors. That is our first act of security for tomorrow, 
so lock the doors. America's next act of security needs to be, 
lock the doors. We need to stop what is happening every day. I 
know you all know this. You started the passion part of this.
    So, but I pledge myself to do that publicly. If we can get 
a change of policy to be one of the attorneys general and there 
will be others across the country, we will join in coordinating 
law enforcement efforts to do this in an orderly fashion that 
protects the American people.
    Mr. Kelly. Well, I want to thank you, and all of you, when 
I read your testimony, I watched your testimony here, these are 
things that just don't bother you because of your office. This 
is what bothers you as an American citizen of what is happening 
to this country, and it is happening on our watch, and it is in 
full view. As we watch it happen, we are told there is nothing 
wrong, please quit making an issue out of something that is not 
an issue. This is an issue. This has to be addressed and for 
all of us. This is not a Republican or Democrat issue. This is 
an American issue. Please forget the politics,and take a look 
at the policy because until we stand up and say stop, they are 
going to continue on this path.
    There are no way future generations would have done what 
they have done, a million and a half in uniform, and we just 
memorialized them on Monday, thanking them for their sacrifice 
their life to give us this opportunity. For us to sit here and 
watch this coming apart at the seams and people telling us you 
guys are just making a big deal about something that doesn't 
exist, that is absolutely false. It is a false lie. It is just 
one thing I think as a people, not as the Republican Party, but 
as a people, the American people need to understand that they 
are losing the greatest Nation the world has ever known, it is 
happening on our watch, and it is almost going on with our 
permission because we sit back, we rub our hands and say I wish 
I could do something about it, and I said, ``you can.'' Get 
registered and get out and vote and take as many friends as you 
can, get them educated. I am not going to lose another son. I 
am not going to lose another little kid that I hope to coach. I 
am not going to lose anybody that could be a big part of this 
Nation coming into the future.
    I am sorry for going on, but I will tell you what. We have 
been dormant too long watching this happen. It is up to us. If 
it is going to change, it is up to us. We cannot expect 
somebody in the White House to do it. They are not capable, and 
they are not going to. So, with that, thank you all. Sheriffs, 
I can't imagine what you go through every day. Ms. Davis, thank 
you so much. Gentlemen, we are going to stay in touch, and we 
have got to find something to do about this. I am tired of 
sending letters and getting no response. I am tired of people 
standing up and saying there is no problem right here when we 
bury them every single day and we have a blind eye and a deaf 
ear to those cries. I am sorry for getting passionate about 
this, but if we are not passionate about our future, then we 
shouldn't be here, and thank you all for being here today.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. I think I will try to pick up 
there and remind us that Abraham Lincoln told his generation 
that they were destined to be remembered because they were 
destined to either nobly save or meanly lose the last best hope 
of mankind on this earth.
    Attorney General Wrigley you reminded us of the 19 
terrorists of 9/11. We released 5,000 of the most dangerous 
terrorists on the planet, and we abandoned Bagram during this 
Administration. We know where one of them went. Ten days later 
they detonated the bomb that killed 13 U.S. service members at 
Kabul airport. We don't know where the other 5,000 are. Is it 
conceivable that among the two million known got-aways, the 
people that we actually watch cross the border but couldn't 
intercept are some of those terrorists, and how long do you 
think we have got?
    Mr. Wrigley. Mr. Chair, I wish I had an answer for what the 
timeline looks like that. I will say that Chris Wray and I have 
been friends for a lot of years since he was the head of the 
Criminal Division. I was U.S. Attorney under President Bush at 
the time. I have known him for a long time. He is a pretty 
sober guy. He wouldn't be saying publicly what he is saying if 
he didn't have a sense that the threat is imminent. It is very 
real. You all get the briefings that the rest of us don't get. 
When Chris Wray, who I know, as I said, I know him personally 
to not be a person who would be saying that to be trying to be 
interesting in public comment. The fact is he always tries to 
be uninteresting in public comment, but that should chill us.
    To realize the vastness of the numbers is part of the 
problem, but the fact that they were allowed in here, they are 
here, and we don't talk about sleeper cells anymore. Well, they 
are asleep at the moment, but they can be awakened in an 
instant, and I think that we are getting that direction from 
the FBI.
    Mr. McClintock. I fear a coordinated attack at multiple 
targets at the same hour, the same day, leaving thousands of 
dead Americans all across the country, and I am afraid that 
this day is coming. The sheriffs described vast miles of the 
Northern border that are completely now unpatrolled so we can't 
even watch people crossing the border, is that correct, because 
we don't have the eyes there?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. Not human eyes. Of course there are 
cameras that are out there, but the Northern border is open, 
sir.
    Mr. McClintock. If we can't intercept them, we know nothing 
about them. Sheriff Jahner, in response to Mr. Fitzgerald, you 
mentioned that you run a background check on the illegal 
migrants that you encounter, but if they are illegally crossing 
for the first time, they have no record in the United States. 
So, do you know anything about them?
    Sheriff Jahner. Mr. Chair, that would be correct, I mean, 
and at that point we don't--
    Mr. McClintock. So, if this is a convicted murderer who has 
escaped Venezuela, you don't have that information available to 
you?
    Sheriff Jahner. We do not have that information.
    Mr. McClintock. As soon as you turn them over to the Border 
Patrol, what does the Border Patrol do with them?
    Sheriff Jahner. That is what we would try to do, would be 
to contact them to help us, and if it is a cooperating country, 
as you guys know, they would have access to gain that 
information, but we don't.
    Mr. McClintock. So, how well vetted would you say these 
illegal migrants are?
    Sheriff Jahner. Not at all.
    Mr. McClintock. Have you encountered any that you would 
deem a threat to your community?
    Sheriff Jahner. Well, I don't know that because we are not 
able to always get cooperation and run those background checks 
on everyone.
    Mr. McClintock. Sheriff Hutchinson?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. I wouldn't know that information 
either. I can just tell you that we do have people coming 
across the border. Some of them we catch. Some of them we 
don't.
    Mr. McClintock. Well, how would you describe the difference 
between your department's experience with the Border Patrol 
during the Trump Administration compared to today?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. They were staffed better, and like I 
said, we typically only have one deputy on patrol at a time. 
Border Patrol was our biggest Agency that would back up our 
deputies, and now that doesn't exist because they are just not 
out there.
    Mr. McClintock. Sheriff Jahner?
    Sheriff Jahner. Mr. Chair, I would say that over the last 
1\1/2\--2 years is where we have noticed a change.
    Mr. McClintock. I am sorry. Say again?
    Sheriff Jahner. Over the last 1\1/2\--2 years is where we 
have noticed the change.
    Mr. McClintock. What is the change?
    Sheriff Jahner. With the cooperation; just less 
cooperation.
    Mr. McClintock. What did the Border Patrol officers tell 
you privately?
    Sheriff Jahner. Well, no, in the one situation that I 
mentioned to you, one of the agents had mentioned to us with 
the current political environment, they didn't believe that 
they would be able to assist us. I don't know what that means.
    Mr. McClintock. Sheriff Hutchinson, what do they tell you?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. Mr. Chair, they are as frustrated as we 
are.
    Mr. McClintock. Ms. Davis, could you describe the local 
economy pre-lockdown compared to today?
    Ms. Davis. Mr. Chairperson or Chair, the economy, as I 
know, seem to be a lot better prior to the restricted hours, 
people were able to come across more freely. Frost Fire Park 
was booming, hotel stays were up, the campground was full every 
weekend, typically, with Canadian visitors, and we had more 
restaurants that we could eat at.
    Mr. McClintock. You attribute that directly to the 
immigration policies in effect now as compared to during pre-
lockdown.
    Ms. Davis. I would definitely attribute it to the lack of 
staffing for the border hours.
    Mr. McClintock. Would you call that more significant or 
less significant than, say, the impact of inflation on the 
economy in those years?
    Ms. Davis. I am sorry. Say that again.
    Mr. McClintock. Would you say that the immigration hours, 
the restrictions are more significant or less significant to 
the local economy than the inflation of the last three years?
    Ms. Davis. I think it is more significant.
    Mr. McClintock. OK. Thank you very much. We will now close 
the hearing with questions from our host, Congressman 
Armstrong.
    Mr. Armstrong. I told the Chair that you all can get a hold 
of me at any time, so I feel like it is really important that 
you get to tell your story to other Members of Congress. I want 
to start with the reason I don't write questions and the reason 
I like going last is because things come up that are really 
important. I think the easiest way to start this is with the 
Attorney General and the Cass County Sheriff and talking about 
the issue that happened in Western Cass County. How would that 
have been handled when you were the U.S. Attorney, if a local 
law enforcement has illegal immigrants in a house in Western 
Cass County?
    By the way, just before this, I want to preface this 
because I agree with you all, very much so, that the boots on 
the ground are as frustrated as anybody else. The policy is not 
being written in the U.S. Attorney's Office in North Dakota, 
and we will get back to BIA here in a second because I think 
that is important. These are leadership decisions that are 
causing as many frustrations with Federal law enforcement as 
they are with State law enforcement.
    So, anybody watching this or understanding this, is we need 
to give them the tools they have to do their job, and they know 
how to do it because they have done it before. You and I both 
practiced in Federal Court at a different time and under 
different policies and the Administration, and how would that 
have been handled? Do you think it would have waited five days 
to get a phone call back?
    Mr. Wrigley. Mr. Chair, Representative Armstrong, of course 
not. They would have been detained immediately. The day that 
this happened, Sheriff Jahner and I were on the phone 
discussing the matter, and to leave people with their hands up 
not knowing what is to take place next and understand that the 
vulnerability is there, to the other question that they are 
there illegally, or you suspect that. You know that you don't 
know what the records are, you don't know what brought them 
here, what their intentions are, what they are up to, and there 
is not anything that you can do. Our BCI agents don't have the 
ability to swoop in and make that arrest. They are not able to 
do that lawfully in that instance, and yet it shouldn't 
surprise us.
    An Administration that is open at the border is open in the 
interior, and so, no, what we would have done there would have 
been Federal involvement immediately. The first person, there 
would have been an on-the-ground investigation at that point 
assisting working with local law enforcement. If they were to 
slap detainers on them and move forward with it, they would 
have been detained and it would have been determined before 
they were ever released--
    Mr. Armstrong. That is my second question because this is 
really important because this shows you where the policy is the 
problem. When you are practicing U.S. attorney either in your 
first time or your second time, if an illegal reentry of a 
previously deported alien has a detention hearing within 48 
hours, what percentage of those people were being released 
prior to either deportation or criminal trial when you were the 
U.S. Attorney?
    Mr. Wrigley. Being released?
    Mr. Armstrong. Being released after they were pretrial 
detention for being illegal at reentry.
    Mr. Wrigley. I wouldn't be able to give you a percentage. I 
just wasn't--
    Mr. Armstrong. I can tell you 100 percent of my clients 
were detained prior to trial, and that is just simply not what 
is happening now.
    Mr. Wrigley. We weren't targeting you.
    Mr. Armstrong. No, I think it was a standard policy, and 
that is a very different thing. Sheriff Hutchinson, I think one 
of the things I learned when I went to Eagle Pass, and I don't 
understand this, and I want to go to the four agents on patrol, 
is people forget the border is not linear. The border extends 
all the way down into Cass County, all the way into everywhere, 
but when you have four patrol agents, Federal patrol agents, 
they are not just patrolling the border. They are patrolling a 
large rural area of North Dakota, looking for things that may 
have gotten across the border. So, when you don't have four 
patrol agents at the Federal level, who takes up that slack in 
your county?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. Oh well, Mr. Chair, Mr. Armstrong, we 
try.
    Mr. Armstrong. Yes.
    Sheriff Hutchinson. One person on duty, like I repeated for 
the third time now. It is difficult because, like I said, ``we 
don't know who is coming across.''
    Mr. Armstrong. Criminals are like water. They will follow 
the path of least resistance. Do you think that people, 
particularly more sophisticated criminal elements, are aware of 
the fact that there are no longer Border Patrol agents 
patrolling the Northern border?
    Sheriff Hutchinson. From my previous life, absolutely.
    Mr. Armstrong. I do, and I want to go to Ms. Davis, because 
it is not like we are asking for something new. They took away 
something that was essential to these communities. I think for 
a lot of people who represent different areas of Congress or 
different areas of the country, they don't understand what it 
means when you lose one restaurant in Walhalla or when you lose 
two hours of business at a co-op, or what that does to the 
fabric of the community, and you are on the frontline, I mean 
of this. People are angry. People are really, really 
frustrated, and not just in the illegal activity, but in the 
lack of any kind of care at all for what our communities need 
to survive and what we what has been taken away from us in 
economic activity because of bad policy.
    So, this is more than like one business closing. This is 
something that affects the entire community, the entire 
economy, and the entire chain of commerce. So, just what is the 
frustration level of your communities going through all of this 
at the same time, and whether they can watch what is happening 
at our Southern border, and just look at this and say, I might 
lose my business because we can't have the normal chain of 
commerce that we used to have.
    Ms. Davis. I would say, Mr. Armstrong and Mr. Chairperson 
or Chair, the level of frustration in our community is pretty 
high. We aren't able to go see family members. What should be a 
quick trip then takes hours. It is two hours from Walhalla to 
Grand Forks. So, say if I was to come grocery shop in Grand 
Forks, that is two hours down here and then two hours back. Our 
grocery store is super small. It is limited. I love the 
resource that it provides, but it is not always a one-stop 
shop, and then that trickles down because our community then 
has the leakage. So, we rely on the Canadians to fill in for 
the leakage of funds from the community.
    The prom committee were shuffling around trying to find 
where to host the dance or the meal prior to the dance. Kids 
were having to go to other communities further away to have 
their dinner for prom, to take their date or what have you, and 
it shouldn't be that way. It wasn't that way to start with, and 
it shouldn't be that way now.
    Mr. Armstrong. I think that is like the entire fabric of 
the community changes, and these are some of the greatest small 
towns, and when small towns in the whole country, and by real 
policy decisions that have affected how we conduct legal 
commerce on the border at the same time, where we just allow 
the open flow of illegal commerce on the border is really, 
really truly affecting everybody in the AG community, everybody 
in the small community, every small sheriff's department on the 
Northern border who is diverting resources to do a job the 
Federal Government is supposed to do.
    I can't leave this without one thing because we talk about 
this a lot in D.C., and I think the biggest mistake that the 
DOJ ever made was when it started galvanizing all the 
leadership in Washington, and this goes to the BIA conversation 
and all of that. From somebody who was on the ground and who 
has done this job at a law enforcement level, we have to get 
back to letting our district offices and our law enforcement 
members, whether it is Border Patrol, whether it is FBI, 
whether it is BIA, to actually have the tools and resources 
they need to do the job out here because I don't care who the 
U.S. Attorney is. If it is appointed by a Democratic President 
or a Republican President or anybody, they understand the law 
enforcement reality on the ground out here in a significantly 
more important and better way than anybody in D.C. or Virginia.
    We have to figure out how to give them the autonomy to do 
their job because I believe this. I believe that people who are 
on the ground, Federal offices and Federal prosecutors out 
here, if they were allowed to do their job, you would be in a 
lot better situation sitting there than if decisions were being 
made in Washington, DC.
    Then I just want to end because I always find this funny 
and coincidental. This morning, the U.S. Border Patrol issued a 
statement, and I don't know if it had anything at all to do 
with this hearing or if it just really happened, but if you 
want to know how fine a point this is, and I am going to read 
it and then introduce it into the record:

          U.S. Border Patrol agents assigned into the Grand Forks 
        Sector's Pembina station along with a USBP canine responded to 
        illegal activity at the border and discovered three backpacks 
        filled with firearms. In the early morning hours on May 15th, 
        agents responded to a report of suspicious activity West of the 
        Neche, North Dakota port of entry. Upon arrival, they observed 
        two individuals absconding from the area into Canada. Agents 
        performed a perimeter search for additional subjects, at which 
        point canine, Odin, led them to three abandoned backpacks.
          While searching the backpacks, agents discovered that each 
        contained firearms. The event resulted in the seizure of 65 
        handguns, 65 pistol magazines, two rifles, one suppressor, and 
        two rifle magazines. All the weapons were transported to PMB 
        for further processing. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and 
        Firearms responded, took custody, and seized items, and will 
        serve as lead investigative agency. There is currently no 
        threat to the community at this time.

    Sixty-five handguns. We spend an exorbitant amount of time 
in D.C., going after lawful gun owners instead of dealing with 
the actual issue that exists when we talk about this like this 
is an issue that only occurs on the Southern border. I guess 
one last question. Attorney General, do you think those 65 
handguns were going to go to law-abiding citizens?
    Mr. Wrigley. I wouldn't have to think about that much, no. 
That is the exact issue. Mr. Chair, Representative Armstrong, 
it is interesting. Well, you made the point better than I am 
going to. That is troubling, should trouble anybody, 65 
firearms are being trafficked by people who are themselves 
crossing that border illegally, and they just happen to get 
caught. That was a good, lucky day. They just happened to get 
caught along this little sector of the country. We have the 
problem. We have a problem, very significant. The border needs 
to be closed. Everyone recognizes it. It is just not happening.
    Mr. Armstrong. We want to fight about whether a North 
Dakotan can buy a gun legally with a rural route address. With 
that, I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you very much. Again, Mr. Armstrong, 
thank you so much for inviting us here today. Oh yes, without 
objection.
    Mr. Armstrong. I actually said I want to put this into the 
record.
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection, the article will be 
entered into the record.
    Mr. McClintock. I want to thank all of you for coming and 
expressing your concerns over this issue. I want to thank the 
witnesses for their expertise today. That concludes today's 
hearing.
    Without objection, all Members will have five legislative 
days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses 
or additional materials for the record.
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection, the hearing is 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:15 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the 
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
Enforcement can be found at the following links: https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=117373.