[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                   FROM IVORY TOWERS TO DARK CORNERS:
                    INVESTIGATING THE NEXUS BETWEEN
               ANTISEMITISM, TAX-EXEMPT UNIVERSITIES, AND
                            TERROR FINANCING

=======================================================================
                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                           NOVEMBER 15, 2023

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on Ways and Means

                            Serial #118-FC17
                            
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABL IN TIFF FORMAT]


                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
55-066 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
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                      COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS

                    JASON SMITH, Missouri, Chairman
                    
VERN BUCHANAN, Florida               RICHARD E. NEAL, Massachusetts
ADRIAN SMITH, Nebraska               LLOYD DOGGETT, Texas
MIKE KELLY, Pennsylvania             MIKE THOMPSON, California
DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona            JOHN B. LARSON, Connecticut
DARIN LaHOOD, Illinois               EARL BLUMENAUER, Oregon
BRAD WENSTRUP, Ohio                  BILL PASCRELL, Jr., New Jersey
JODEY ARRINGTON, Texas               DANNY DAVIS, Illinois
DREW FERGUSON, Georgia               LINDA SANCHEZ, California
RON ESTES, Kansas                    BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania          TERRI SEWELL, Alabama
KEVIN HERN, Oklahoma                 SUZAN DelBENE, Washington
CAROL MILLER, West Virginia          JUDY CHU, California
GREG MURPHY, North Carolina          GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin
DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee             DAN KILDEE, Michigan
BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania      DON BEYER, Virginia
GREG STEUBE, Florida                 DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York             BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
MICHELLE FISCHBACH, Minnesota        JIMMY PANETTA, California
BLAKE MOORE, Utah
MICHELLE STEEL, California
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
MIKE CAREY, Ohio

                       Mark Roman, Staff Director
                 Brandon Casey, Minority Chief Counsel
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Jason Smith, Missouri, Chairman.............................     1
Hon. Richard Neal, Massachusetts, Ranking Member.................     3
Advisory of November 15, 2023 announcing the hearing.............     V

                               WITNESSES

Talia Dror, Student at Cornell University and Vice President of 
  Finance, Cornellians for Israel................................     4
Adam Lehman, President & CEO, Hillel International...............    11
Jonathan Schanzer, Senior Vice President of Research, Foundation 
  for Defense of Democracies.....................................    25
Noa Tishby, Best selling author and Israel's Former Special Envoy 
  for Combatting Antisemitism....................................    42
Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO & National Director, Anti-Defamation 
  League.........................................................    47

                    MEMBER QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

Member Questions for the Record to and Responses from Talia Dror, 
  Student at Cornell University and Vice President of Finance, 
  Cornellians for Israel.........................................   116

                   PUBLIC SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

Public Submissions...............................................   121
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


 
                   FROM IVORY TOWERS TO DARK CORNERS:
        INVESTIGATING THE NEXUS BETWEEN ANTISEMITISM, TAX-EXEMPT
                   UNIVERSITIES, AND TERROR FINANCING

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2023

                          House of Representatives,
                               Committee on Ways and Means,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 2:11 p.m. in Room 
1100, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Jason T. Smith 
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
    Chairman SMITH. The committee will come to order.
    Good afternoon, everyone. I want to, before we start, 
recognize two members who have decided that they want to leave 
us in Congress, Mr. Brad Wenstrup and Brian Higgins. Since the 
last time that we met, the news came out with both of them.
    Brad has devoted his life to service whether it was in the 
Army, whether it was as a doctor, or also in Congress. And 
Brian has been a tireless advocate for western New York, dating 
all the way back to his time on the Buffalo City Council.
    We all wish you both well in your next endeavors, and we 
will miss you, but we are still going to have some fun time 
ahead.
    So the October--oh, Richie, yes.
    Mr. NEAL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me also say some 
really fine things about the two people that you have just 
referenced.
    Brian Higgins would have shared many of the same traditions 
that I did coming along on the city council on the way up, but 
a stellar member of this committee in all forms.
    And Brad Wenstrup, I am delighted to have met. What a 
terrific human being. And we are going to miss him, a really 
fine guy.
    And you know, the time that I have been here, they also 
have something else in common. They both knew how to make their 
point, but they were never malicious. Thank you.
    Chairman SMITH. The October 7 terrorist attack by Hamas was 
barbaric and horrifying. Civilians were targeted, tortured, 
raped, murdered, and kidnaped. Approximately 240 people are 
being held hostage in Gaza right now. They range in age from 9 
months to 85 years old, and come from over 33 countries, 
including the United States. The families of these hostages are 
living in anguish, hoping and praying their loved ones are 
alive and will come home.
    We stand with these families and Israel. We affirm Israel's 
right to fully defend itself against terrorists. While we stand 
with the Jewish people, what makes this moment worse is that 
many have responded by blaming Israel. Unfortunately, the 
hateful beliefs behind the attack are not isolated to the 
Middle East. This committee has jurisdiction over the tax code 
and must address two related issues that have been laid bare in 
the aftermath of October 7.
    First, tax-exempt charities operating in the United States 
are providing support, encouragement, and potential financing 
to Hamas and Hamas-affiliated groups. This concern is not 
theoretical. In the early 2000s, the U.S. Government identified 
and shut down the Holy Land Foundation in the United States. 
That foundation funneled 12.4 million from Americans to Hamas. 
Shockingly, a 500(c)(3) entity called American Muslims for 
Palestine and its related (c)(4) have been sued in Federal 
court for operating as an alter ego of the Holy Land 
Foundation. The two groups have many of the same leaders and 
may be continuing the same efforts to support Hamas.
    Second, the eruption of hatred towards Jewish students on 
college campuses after the October 7 attack has been disturbing 
to watch, but the organization around it is not some organic 
movement. It has been carefully built over years, in part by 
American Muslims for Palestine. They helped build, shape, and 
train a group called Students for Justice in Palestine, or SJP. 
Many SJP events have involved pro-Hamas slogans and have led to 
intimidation, harassment, and violence against Jewish students.
    Unfortunately, an absence of leadership on college campuses 
has allowed hostility toward Jewish students to escalate since 
October 7, and too many university presidents have sought to 
placate the most radical voices on their campuses. University 
presidents were quick and forceful in issuing statements 
supporting numerous social justice matters. They haven't shied 
away from commenting on other events affecting their students, 
but, when it comes to the bloodiest day for Jews since the 
Holocaust, they couldn't find their voices.
    Cornell's president had to clarify her initial vague 
statement to let people know she does think Hamas's attack was 
terrorism.
    Harvard's president waited days to comment, allowing 
student groups condemning Israel to implicitly speak for the 
university.
    At the same time, we have seen pro-Palestinian protest 
become a means of intimidation and threats of violence. When 
they fail to act, universities claim it is about free speech 
rights. But that is laughable. These universities have a track 
record of failing to protect free speech rights, while instead 
protecting preferred speech.
    In fact, colleges are actively suppressing speech protected 
by the First Amendment. For example, the Foundation for 
Individual Rights and Education, or FIRE, rates universities on 
their commitment to free speech on campuses. The University of 
Pennsylvania's latest rating is ``very poor.'' This is likely 
due to multiple instances of professors being investigated and 
disciplined for expressing various opinions relating to race 
and gender.
    Universities can and should protect free speech rights on 
campus for all voices, not just the ones that they prefer. This 
shouldn't be hard. Good people around the world have the moral 
clarity to call out evil as evil; terrorism as terrorism. We 
should have that same moral clarity as we proceed today.
    Chairman SMITH. I am pleased to recognize the ranking 
member, Mr. Neal, for his opening statement.
    Mr. NEAL. Thank you for calling this hearing, Mr. Chairman. 
And let there be no doubt that I, along with our colleagues on 
the Democratic side, as well, are here today to condemn anti-
Semitism in all its forms, including the brutal attack that was 
launched by the terrorist organization Hamas on Israel on 
October 7. The last month has been heartbreaking. To all those 
who are affected by the ongoing war, to the students who are 
afraid, and to all those whose hearts are broken watching the 
devastation unfold, please know we are with you.
    Over a month ago, Hamas unleashed evil, slaughtering 1,200 
people and kidnaping hundreds, including Americans. This 
horrific event was the largest loss of Jewish life in a single 
day since the Holocaust. Meanwhile, there has been a sharp tick 
in anti-Semitism. These are not isolated incidents any longer. 
They are taking place on campuses across the country and 
communities, as well, and bringing back the pain and fear that 
Jewish people know all too well and they should not have to 
endure.
    Our first priority must always be safety. Universities also 
have a responsibility to cultivate safe and supportive learning 
environments. Anti-Semitism is not innate; it is learned.
    As Members of Congress, we must lead by example, requiring 
us not only to reject, but to condemn hate outright in all 
forms: racism, misogyny, xenophobia, Islamophobia. They have no 
place here and no place on our college campuses.
    We know that those who spew hatred toward one group also 
target others. Combating anti-Semitism on campuses not only 
gives Jewish students the dignity, respect, and safety they 
deserve, but also builds on our broader efforts to counter 
bigotry and hate. Hate is an epidemic, and it must be combated 
comprehensively.
    Recently, we have seen bombings on HBCU campuses, Asian 
students targeted in the wake of the pandemic, and rampant 
examples of White supremacy, all instances of hate-fueled 
discrimination, and we cannot be silent.
    The Biden Administration has been dogged, launching new 
efforts to combat anti-Semitism on campuses back in May, and 
deepening that work over the last month. The Administration has 
quickly laid out a national security supplemental funding 
package to not only bolster the fight against Hamas terrorism, 
but also to deliver much-needed humanitarian aid for innocent 
people. There is bipartisan support for this funding, and the 
time is now to act.
    The Department of Justice and Homeland Security are leading 
efforts to strengthen coordination between campus law 
enforcement and state and local law enforcement, as well, to 
keep these students safe while also providing cybersecurity 
experts to support universities in assessing online risks.
    The Department of Education has taken several steps to 
address prohibited forms of anti-Semitic discrimination under 
title 6 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
    This afternoon, there is an opportunity to listen, and I am 
grateful to our witnesses for taking the time to share their 
experiences and to let us know how Congress can best support 
you. Your appearance today is a profound act of courage and 
serves as a powerful reminder that we must always put people 
and free speech first.
    Fighting anti-Semitism and all the hate must not be a 
dividing issue. But denouncing bigotry is an American value, 
and one that we all must carry forward from this day into the 
future.
    Mr. NEAL. With that, I yield back the balance of my time.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you, Ranking Member Neal.
    I am pleased to see such a large audience for our hearing 
today.
    As a reminder, the chairman is responsible under the rules 
of the House and the rules of the committee to maintain order 
and preserve decorum in the committee room, and members of the 
audience are reminded that they must behave in an orderly 
fashion.
    I will now introduce our witnesses.
    Ms. Talia Dror is a student at Cornell University and vice 
president of finance for Cornellians for Israel.
    Adam Lehman is president and CEO of Hillel International.
    Jonathan Schanzer is senior vice president of research for 
the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
    And Noa Tishby is a best-selling author and Israel's former 
special envoy for combating anti-Semitism.
    Jonathan Greenblatt is CEO and national director of the 
Anti-Defamation League.
    Thank you all for joining us today. Your written statements 
will be made part of the hearing record, and you each have five 
minutes to deliver remarks.
    Ms. Dror, you may begin when you are ready.

STATEMENT OF TALIA DROR, STUDENT AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY AND VICE 
          PRESIDENT OF FINANCE, CORNELLIANS FOR ISRAEL

    Ms. DROR. Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Neal, and members 
of the Ways and Means Committee, thank you for the invitation 
to testify today.
    My name is Talia Dror, I am a student at Cornell studying 
industrial and labor relations with minors in business and 
legal policy. But beyond that, I am the embodiment of the 
American dream. I am the child of an immigrant who fled Iran 
after facing religious persecution, dreaming of an America 
where she could openly raise a Jewish family.
    I grew up hearing the cautionary tales of blatant anti-
Semitism, how my grandfather was stabbed for being a Jew, how 
my mother was called a dirty Jew on a daily basis, how my 
family had to pretend they weren't Jewish. But I never thought 
the horrific anti-Semitism they faced would follow us to the 
country we fled to for refuge.
    Thirty-nine days ago, as I witnessed the mass rape, 
mutilation, and massacre committed by Hamas, my reality as a 
college student in the United States radically transformed. 
Students, professors, and administrators at Cornell celebrated 
the massacre of innocent civilians. Just five days after the 
heinous terror attacks, the student assembly introduced a 
resolution calling Hamas ``an armed resistance,'' and placing 
full blame for the October 7 attacks on Israel.
    At the hearing, I spoke about the fact that the very 
terrorists endorsed by that resolution called for a global Day 
of Rage the next day. I explained that, as a Jewish student 
leader, my community is terrified to walk around the school 
they pay to attend because they are afraid of getting 
threatened, assaulted, or killed.
    Students at rallies chant genocidal phrases like, ``From 
the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.'' This is a chant 
that calls for the elimination of the State of Israel and all 
seven million Jews inside of it. This is a chant that calls for 
a second Holocaust. Students scream, ``Intifada Revolution,'' 
calling for deadly terror attacks on civilians.
    A Cornell professor announced that he was exhilarated and 
energized by the Hamas attacks, by the murder of my family and 
friends.
    On October 25, Cornell students woke up to a campus 
vandalized with graffiti that said, ``Zionism equals genocide 
and New Intifada.'' That day, students walking into their 
classes stepped over calls for terror attacks and accusations 
of being genocidal for supporting the existence of the State of 
Israel.
    Cornell's administration has made firm statements on 
everything from Supreme Court cases to the war in Ukraine to 
Black Lives Matter. But, in the wake of the deadliest day in 
Jewish history since the Holocaust, administrators have excused 
endorsements of terrorism under the guise of free speech. In 
their initial statement, they compared ``the loss of life in 
the Middle East'' to deaths caused by natural disasters. They 
allowed tensions to fester on campus, professors to use captive 
audiences to preach terrorist sympathies, and the targeting of 
Jewish students on their campus. They paved the perfect path 
for radicalized individuals to shift calls for the murder of 
Jews in Israel to calls for the extermination of Jews on 
campus.
    On the morning of October 29, the provost, in an address to 
concerned Jewish parents, explained that while he understands 
concerns for their children's physical safety, that they 
shouldn't be worried. Not seven hours later, Jewish students on 
campus received threats that said, ``If I see another Jew on 
campus, I will stab you and slit your throat. If I see another 
pig female Jew, I will drag you away, rape you, and throw you 
off a cliff. Jews are human animal and deserve pig's death. 
Liberation by any means, from the river to the sea, Palestine 
will be free.'' Quote, ``Gonna shoot up 104 West,'' the kosher 
dining hall. ``Glory to Hamas. Liberation by any means 
necessary.''
    That night, I sat in my locked house pondering my 
mortality. I knew that with my roommates and I being openly 
Jewish community leaders, our apartment would be one of the 
first targets for someone looking to actualize the threats. I 
thought back to the stories my mother told me growing up. I was 
a young child. I found so much comfort in having the privilege 
of being protected by a country built on a foundation of equal 
opportunity and individual liberty.
    Two days later, I got news that the threats were made by a 
fellow student. This wasn't far away. It was at the same school 
I worked my whole life to get into, the school I invested my 
family's hard-earned life savings to attend, the school that 
promised me they would uphold a community of belonging.
    Universities have failed to uphold their self-proclaimed 
values of equity and belonging when it comes to Jewish 
students. The hypocrisy is glaring.
    In light of horrific anti-Semitism, Jewish students on 
campus have been courageous and resilient, but we shouldn't 
need to be. American Jewish students on campus deserve better.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify.
    [The statement of Ms. Dror follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    [Applause.]
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you for your brave testimony.
    Mr. Lehman, you can now proceed.

STATEMENT OF ADAM LEHMAN, PRESIDENT & CEO, HILLEL INTERNATIONAL

    Mr. LEHMAN. Thank you, Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Neal, 
and distinguished members of the House Ways and Means 
Committee. I am here today on behalf of Hillel International, 
the largest Jewish student organization in the world with a 
presence on more than 700 campuses in the United States.
    Our top priority in this fraught moment is addressing the 
frightening rise of anti-Semitism on college campuses. Really, 
telling the story you just heard from Talia that is playing out 
across the country.
    Even before October 7, discrimination directed at Jewish 
students has been rising at a very concerning rate. However, 
since October 7, we have seen an unprecedented spike in 
harassment, intimidation, hate, and even violence directed at 
Jewish students. In the past five weeks, our Hillels have 
reported 398 anti-Semitic incidents, a figure that includes 28 
physical assaults. This level of anti-Semitic activity 
represents more than a 700 percent increase--again, 700 percent 
increase--from the record level a year before in the same 
period.
    In addition to the harrowing threats and issues that Talia 
just described at Cornell, at other campuses Jewish students--
campuses from some of your own states--have been spit on, they 
have been beaten with a Palestinian flagpole, they have been 
physically assaulted for the crime of putting up a poster 
remembering Israeli hostages. They have been threatened by 
faculty members and subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of 
hate speech and intimidation.
    While some of this hate speech is encoded within chants 
demonizing Israel and seeking its destruction that we have all 
become far too immune to, Jewish students have also faced calls 
to gas the Jews, kill the Jews, and that Jews are Nazis.
    Let me be perfectly clear. We have no desire, as you all 
share, to see anyone's free speech rights curtailed or their 
academic freedom compromised. There should be space on campus 
to debate about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and other 
geopolitical issues, including space for those advocating on 
behalf of both Israelis and Palestinians. But neither free 
speech nor academic freedom is a free pass for the targeted 
harassment, threats, discrimination, and violence being 
directed at Jewish and Israeli students.
    Hillels across the country are doing all we can to provide 
additional security for their community spaces, wellness and 
mental health support, and advocacy on behalf of our students. 
And Jewish student leaders like Talia are displaying courage 
and resilience in representing their communities and in 
continuing to work to promote understanding and partnership 
with other communities across campus. But Hillel professionals, 
Chabad professionals, and student leaders cannot solve this 
problem alone. They need--and they deserve--the same attention 
and action from their universities that we would want for any 
students facing this level of harassment and discrimination.
    Specifically, we are calling on university leaders to act 
firmly and swiftly in disciplining students, faculty, staff, 
and student groups like students for Justice in Palestine that 
are clearly violating university policies and, in many cases, 
violating the law. We are calling on them to ensure that their 
DEI departments address issues of anti-Semitism with the same 
focus and force that they do for other forms of discrimination; 
to regulate and rein in protest activities that are frequently 
spawning grounds for harassment, intimidation, and even 
violence; to invest in the added security protections that we 
need in this moment; and to partner with Hillel and other 
Jewish student organizations in ongoing efforts to eliminate 
the bias and hostility we are describing.
    At a governmental level, we appreciate truly the moral 
clarity and expressions of support from both Congress and the 
Administration for Israel in its just war against Hamas and for 
Jewish Americans facing growing anti-Semitism.
    That said, we respectfully request support in the following 
three areas.
    Number one, security. We urge you to immediately and 
substantially expand the non-profit security grant program.
    Number two, title 6 enforcement. We urge you to appropriate 
supplemental funding to the Office of Civil Rights at the 
Department of Education. We need them to have adequate 
resources to investigate and pursue title 6 claims.
    And, finally, to support and fund implementation of the 
National Strategy to Counter Anti-Semitism.
    Thank you for your consideration, and thank you for your 
time.
    [The statement of Mr. Lehman follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Dr. Schanzer, you are recognized.

   STATEMENT OF JONATHAN SCHANZER, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF 
     RESEARCH, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES (FDD)

    Mr. SCHANZER. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, 
distinguished committee members, Hamas is alive and well in 
America.
    Over the last month, this country has seen an alarming 
number of rallies, both in major cities and on college 
campuses, expressing support for the terrorist organization. 
Much of this activity, which I detail in my written testimony, 
includes unabashed anti-Semitism, and even calls for genocide 
against Israel. And a lot of this can be traced to a handful of 
extremist groups, but two of them stand out in particular: 
American Muslims for Palestine, AMP, and Students for Justice 
in Palestine, SJP, a campus group that receives funding and 
guidance and support from AMP.
    Mr. Chairman, I worked at the U.S. Treasury Department in 
the mid-2000s, and my colleagues and I disrupted several Hamas 
charities that were operating here in America. I am talking 
about the Holy Land Foundation, KindHearts, and the Islamic 
Association for Palestine, also known as IAP. The case against 
these groups, which provided financial and material support to 
Hamas, is by now well known. More than a half dozen individuals 
who previously worked for those Hamas charities now run 
American Muslims for Palestine.
    In my written testimony, I delve more deeply into the 
network, but there are four figures that I would like to 
highlight here today.
    First is Osama Abuirshaid, who was the former editor of 
IAP's newspaper. He is now AMP's executive director. He 
regularly publishes articles promoting Hamas, including 
communications with Hamas leaders. In 2014, Abuirshaid was 
featured on the website of Hamas's self-declared military wing, 
the al-Qassam Brigades.
    Abdelbaset Hamayel, IAP's, former secretary general, is 
identified in IRS filings as the person who possesses the 
organization's books and records for AMP's fiscal sponsor, 
Americans for Justice in Palestine Educational Foundation. 
Today, he is active in AMP's Chicago chapter.
    Salah Sarsour is a national AMP board member who previously 
raised funds for the Holy Land Foundation. Today, he is 
director of Americans for Justice in Palestine Educational 
Foundation, again, the 501(c)(3) that is the fiscal sponsor of 
AMP. In the 1990s, Sarsour spent eight months in an Israeli 
jail for Hamas activity. He used a bank account from his 
furniture store in Milwaukee to send money to a Hamas military 
leader. Sarsour today owns a Wisconsin furniture store that 
advertises and fundraises at AMP's annual conferences.
    Finally, AMP's current chairman and SJP founder, Hatem 
Bazian, also helped raise money for KindHearts in 2004.
    These and other AMP figures are promoting pro-Hamas 
sentiment across America today. AMP is lobbying legislators 
here on Capitol Hill. Those Members of Congress include and are 
not limited to Representatives Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Jan 
Schakowsky, Betty McCollum, Summer Lee, Bill Pascrell, Andre 
Carson, and others.
    AMP has built a network of activists that are tormenting 
Jewish and pro-Israel students on college campuses nationwide. 
Students for Justice in Palestine rallies are not spontaneous 
expressions of student dissent. AMP's campus outreach 
coordinator, Taher Herzallah, provides guidance and support to 
SJP chapters and other extremist groups on campus.
    Mr. Chairman, to summarize, the personnel, mission, goals, 
donors, and infrastructure of AMP share a striking resemblance 
to the Hamas charities that were dismantled here more than a 
decade ago. This was not lost on the family of David Boim, an 
American teenager killed by Hamas. The Boim family sued AMP, 
alleging that AMP is the alter-ego of the Islamic Association 
for Palestine. They say AMP is the same institution, fulfilling 
the same functions, with the same goals of IAP merely operating 
under a different name to avoid legal liabilities. I cannot 
predict the outcome of that case, but I believe AMP is a hate 
group with roots in Hamas fundraising organizations that were 
shuttered for a reason.
    AMP student networks who practice hate speech and incite 
violence should not be allowed to operate on American college 
campuses. AMP's lobby should not be welcomed on Capitol Hill.
    I must ask, are U.S. intelligence and law enforcement 
agencies working to answer the questions raised by the Boim 
lawsuit?
    Is this network of individuals that formerly worked for 
Hamas-connected charities providing support for Hamas under a 
different name?
    I first brought this issue to Congress seven years ago. It 
was around then that U.S. officials quietly conceded to me that 
certain Hamas networks were protected sources in the fight 
against ISIS. I sincerely hope this is no longer the case.
    On behalf of Foundation for Defense of Democracies, thank 
you for the opportunity to testify.
    [The statement of Mr. Schanzer follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    [Applause.]
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Ms. Tishby, you are now recognized.

   STATEMENT OF NOA TISHBY, BEST SELLING AUTHOR AND ISRAEL'S 
        FORMER SPECIAL ENVOY FOR COMBATTING ANTISEMITISM

    Ms. TISHBY. Distinguished members, American universities 
have become dangerous places for Jewish students. What is 
taking place on U.S. campuses is not legitimate pro-Palestinian 
activity but an aggressive assault on Jewish students, American 
values, and the future of American society.
    Jewish students are being harassed, threatened, and 
attacked with violent rage. But we have exposed that this 
violence did not happen overnight, nor is it a grassroots 
movement. It has been planned, engineered, and incubated for 
decades by heavily-funded, professionally-orchestrated groups 
with close connections to terrorist organizations like Hamas, 
Islamic Jihad, and PFLP.
    One of the main perpetrators of campus Jew hate is Students 
for Justice in Palestine, or SJP. SJP was set up and is 
supported by groups with individuals with well-documented 
records of support and fundraising for terrorist organizations, 
individuals like Hatem Bazian, who founded SJP and is also the 
founder of American Muslims for Palestine, or AMP.
    Terrorist sympathizers figured out decades ago that, 
instead of sending money to jihadi organizations, they will 
target the hearts and minds of young and naive, sometimes well-
meaning, American students. They use progressive buzzwords like 
``justice'' and ``freedom,'' but their true intent is 
destroying the world's only Jewish state by all means 
necessary. And, after October 7, we have seen that anything 
goes. Beheading babies and raping women are just fine if it is 
done for the Jews. They call it resistance. For decades, these 
groups have lied to young Americans and convinced them that 
Israel is the ultimate evil, so that when Hamas terrorists 
carried out these barbaric acts, young, educated Americans 
would minimize, justify, and even celebrate it.
    Ladies and gentlemen, SJP is a hate group. It is grooming 
American college students, grooming your children to hate 
Israel, to hate America, and to hate Jews. And, for years, 
universities stood by, watched this brainwashing take place, 
and did nothing.
    SJP hijacks any campus that it operates, and I use that 
word deliberately. After all, this is the organization that 
puts the Palestinian plane hijacker, Leila Khaled, on its tee 
shirts.
    These groups are not interested in peace. Just listen to 
what they chant. There is only one solution: intifada 
revolution. On our campuses, those with bad intent prey on 
those with bad knowledge. Because we know what intifada 
actually means, it means blowing up Jews on busses, or stabbing 
us, shooting us, running us down, or slaughtering us like on 
October 7. And so today, Jewish students are barricading 
themselves in libraries, hiding from an angry, brainwashed mob. 
Universities have let Jewish students down, and they are 
letting America down.
    Now, this is what we need to do about this.
    First, we need to kick these groups--it is hate groups--off 
of campus. How can it be that college fees and taxpayer dollars 
are funding hate groups that cheers on the burning alive of 
Jewish families? Every college in this country should ban SJP 
and never let them back. We wouldn't fund KKK chapters in our 
colleges. We shouldn't fund SJP chapters in our colleges, 
either. [Applause.]
    Ms. TISHBY. And, if universities fail to remove SJP off of 
campus, if they continue to protect and fund the ringleaders of 
an anti-Semitic mob, then this committee should withdraw 
funding for them. We would not allow the mafia to teach 
business on campus. We should not allow terrorist supporters to 
teach political activism to our children.
    Second, with the amount of evidence linking SJP and AMP 
members with support and financing of terrorist groups, 
including Hamas, these organizations and networks should be 
investigated by state police and the FBI. The terrorists that 
support--that are supported, they are the ones who committed 
worldwide jihad, currently hold over 200 Israeli-Americans and 
other countries' citizens hostages.
    The time for criminal investigation is right now, which 
brings me to my third and final point. How can groups that 
spread this ideology on campus that should be under FBI 
investigation enjoy a warm welcome in Congress?
    Last month, not even three weeks after Hamas were 
decapitating Jewish babies and raping young Jewish women and 
girls, AMP were on the Hill lobbying Congress with their annual 
Palestine Advocacy Day. How can congressmen and women take 
donations from such a group? Members of this House should never 
be funded from the same pot as murderous terrorists.
    Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a Jewish issue. This is 
an American one. There is a direct line between brainwashed 
extremists who rip down posters of kidnaped Jewish children and 
those who rip down the American flag ahead of Veterans Day.
    I urge this committee to act now, stop this coordinated 
assault on Jewish students, on American values, and on the 
future of the American dream.
    Thank you very much.
    [The statement of Ms. Tishby follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    [Applause.]
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Mr. Greenblatt, you are now recognized.

  STATEMENT OF JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO & NATIONAL DIRECTOR, 
                     ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE

    Mr. GREENBLATT. Thank you, Chairman Smith and Ranking 
Member Neal, for inviting me to testify today. Thank you to my 
friend Congressman Schneider, and so many members on both sides 
of the aisle for your commitment to fighting anti-Semitism.
    On October 7, the terrorist group Hamas committed mass 
atrocities in Israel, murdering more than 1,200 individuals and 
kidnaping, seizing over 200 babies, children, the elderly, the 
disabled, and more.
    In the wake of this massacre, the deadliest day for the 
Jewish people since the Holocaust, the ADL has tracked a surge 
of anti-Semitism around the world and right here in America in 
public spaces, in workplaces, and indeed, on our college 
campuses, even in K through 12 schools.
    And it is getting worse. In the months since October the 
7th, ADL tracked 832 anti-Jewish acts in the U.S. That is 
almost 30 a day. Reports of incidences this year versus last 
year were 316 percent higher.
    And we know that campuses, college campuses, are a 
microcosm of what the trends we are seeing globally. But they 
have also become petri dishes where anti-Semitism is festering 
and flourishing. As you heard from Talia ,we should all salute 
her bravery and her courage with what she has had to deal with 
every single day since October the 7th. [Applause.]
    Mr. Greenblatt. But we have documented hundreds of anti-
Semitic incidents on campuses. We have seen residence halls 
plastered with hateful messages. We have seen Jewish students 
removed from student government because of their ``Zionism.'' 
And the list goes on.
    But October the 7th brought some campuses to their knees 
with a disturbing intensification of harassment, vandalism, and 
violence. We tracked 234 anti-Israel and pro-Hamas rallies on 
U.S. campuses, not calls for a two-state solution, not calls 
for a one-state solution, these were calls for a final 
solution. And these are serious incidents, which continue to 
mount.
    Just this past weekend, we saw at Ohio State two Jewish 
students assaulted by attackers, slandering them with hateful 
slurs that I am not going to repeat here for the session today. 
At UMass Amherst last week, we saw a Jewish student assaulted 
at an event honoring the hostages. And I am sure you have all 
seen the clips of the Cooper Union, or Tulane, or Harvard, or 
MIT, or UCLA, and I could go on and on and on. Many of these 
incidents, indeed, as Jonathan pointed out and Noa, were 
instigated, directed, and celebrated by Students for Justice in 
Palestine.
    Let me be clear. There is no world in which a person or an 
organization should justify Hamas's war crimes and unspeakable 
barbarities. So here in America, right here at home, we 
shouldn't tolerate students being threatened or intimidated 
because of their identity. No parent should ever have to ask 
whether it is safe for their children to attend certain 
universities.
    This isn't a question of free speech. Don't let anyone tell 
you that. Freedom of expression is not the freedom to incite 
violence, period, full stop.
    But the Jewish community, we will not cower in fear. We 
will stand up and fight back. Three hundred thousand of us 
gathered together yesterday on the Mall. And look at what 
happened. No American flags were torn down. They were raised. 
People sang the national anthem. There were people wearing MAGA 
hats and pride flags marching together in this place on this 
issue. It was inspiring. That is what America looks like, and 
that is what our Jewish community looks like.
    So----
    [Applause.]
    Mr. GREENBLATT [continuing]. To the question of where do we 
go from here, Congress, you have a role to play, and you can 
send an unequivocal message. And I will give you four ideas.
    Number one, pass comprehensive legislation to implement the 
National Strategy to Counter Anti-Semitism. The White House 
deserves praise for what they have done. Now hold them 
accountable to make sure the job gets done.
    Number two, pass an emergency supplemental bill, aid bill, 
to Israel that includes funding for the non-profit security 
grants that so many of you have fought hard to make sure our 
synagogues and our schools are kept safe.
    Number three, urge governmental authorities, the FBI and 
the IRS, to look at and conduct a thorough review of these 
organizations like AMP and SJP that you have heard about today.
    And finally, ensure the Department of Education has 
adequate personnel and resources to enforce title 6. But don't 
wait. Push them to be proactive in conducting investigations, 
rather than just waiting for them to be worked through.
    Thank you again for the bipartisan presence here today. 
Thank you for holding this hearing, and I look forward to 
answering your questions.
    [The statement of Mr. Greenblatt follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    [Applause.]
    Chairman SMITH. I want to thank you all again for your 
amazing testimony. We will now proceed to the question-and-
answer session with the members of the committee. I will start.
    Ms. Dror, we have seen the news reports. We have seen 
social media videos. But you have lived the nightmare on 
Cornell's campus over these past few weeks. You even had to 
endure a faculty member at your university calling the murder 
of well over 1,000 people in Israel ``exhilarating.'' What has 
the university done to protect you and other Jewish students in 
the face of the threats made?
    And has the university's response been as swift and sincere 
as you have seen with other issues?
    Ms. DROR. Absolutely. First of all, thank you so much for 
your question.
    Directly after the death threats were made, I would say in 
the span of two hours, one of the strongest statements I have 
seen was immediately released condemning anti-Semitism, 
condemning violence against religious minorities. It was a very 
strong statement, and Jewish students on campus were very 
grateful to the administration to receive that unconditional 
support.
    Since then, I am also aware of heightened security in all 
Jewish facilities on campus. That includes the kosher dining 
hall, the Hillel offices, the Center for Jewish Living, the 
Chabad House, and we are very appreciative of that, as well.
    We have received direct support from the university in 
attending Shabbat dinners. Governor Kathy Hochul attended the 
kosher dining hall the morning after the threats were made. And 
all of that support has been sincerely appreciated by the 
Jewish community.
    My question is, why didn't we receive it right after the 
October 7 attacks? Why did it take a direct threat to murder, 
rape, and slaughter Jews on campus to get support from our 
administration? It should have come way earlier. It was an 
oversight on behalf of the university administration. We 
sincerely appreciate all of their help now. But it is too 
little, too late.
    That said, a lot of the other people on this panel have 
spoken about Students Justice for Palestine. Cornell has a 
chapter, as well. They have formed a coalition, along with 
other student groups on our campus, who have made demands to 
the university including demands to divest from all Israel-
related expenditures on campus. However, one of their demands 
was particularly interesting. It was to reduce all police 
presence on campus. Two weeks after the Jewish community 
received death threats, they wanted to reduce all police 
presence on campus. That is what they asked from the 
university.
    So I absolutely second the statements of everyone made on 
this panel and appreciate it.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Dr. Schanzer, we know the hateful attacks we are seeing on 
Jewish students at college campuses is not occurring in a 
vacuum. Can you help us take a step back and explain the 
financing, including the role of 501(c)(3)s and 501(c)(4)s here 
in the U.S. that generate resources that are used in some cases 
to support outright terrorist groups like Hamas from within the 
U.S.?
    Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The cases that I 
discussed in my testimony, both spoken and written, addressed 
three charities that have been exploited by Hamas here in this 
country. It was quite an effort to track them down back in the 
2000s.
    My concern right now is that America's focus has shifted 
over the last decade or so. First it was ISIS, then it was 
Russia, then it was China. My concern right now is that we have 
taken our eye off the ball. I am not aware of significant 
efforts within the U.S. Government to track Hamas over the last 
10 years. Yes, over the last month, we have seen a significant 
uptick, and justifiably so. My fear, though, is that we have 
had 10 years of just a blind spot as it relates to Hamas. 
Perhaps other groups as well. As you know, the U.S. Government 
has pivoted away from what used to be known as the global war 
on terror as we have now shifted into what we now describe as 
great power competition.
    It is my belief, my strong belief, that we need to learn 
how to walk and chew gum here. We are going to continue to see 
terrorist attacks against the United States and our allies. 
Unfortunately, I think this is just a reality. We need to make 
sure that we have the resources within the bureaucracy to 
tackle these problems while addressing the threats of Russia 
and China and others.
    Chairman SMITH. Ms. Tishby, as you know, the disgusting 
show of support for the terrorist goals of Hamas are appearing 
on college campuses, including the phrase, ``From the river to 
the sea, Palestine will be free'' being displayed on a building 
at the University of Pennsylvania.
    As someone who has been an advocate for Israel focused on 
expanding other people's knowledge of your country, can you 
speak to how these displays of support for Hamas go beyond just 
some harmless college campus activism?
    Ms. TISHBY. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much for 
the question.
    So we can definitely see how, when you support a massacre 
that occurred in Israel, you will encourage violence in the 
United States. That is kind of--that goes without saying, and 
it is a dog whistle to their supporters.
    We have seen the attacks on college students and beyond. 
There was a kid in Tulane University that was hospitalized with 
a broken--with broken bones for supporting Israel, being in a 
rally, in a pro-Israel rally. There was--Paul Kessler from Los 
Angeles was killed for holding an Israeli flag.
    So there is incitement for violence that is immediately 
preceded by violence. And we see this in the uptake in anti-
Semitic attacks and rhetoric, we see this online and offline. 
There is no question that these two things are directly related 
and connected.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you. I now recognize the ranking 
member, Mr. Neal, for his questions.
    Mr. NEAL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As an academic, I want 
to thank Ms. Dror for being here today. I know how difficult it 
is for students to step forward. And I know the strength that 
has brought you here today and are indeed grateful for your 
testimony.
    Let me move to you, Mr. Greenblatt. How does the ADL, which 
is well regarded and always has been, believe that 
administrators, faculty, community members can more effectively 
respond to hateful speech, including anti-Semitic and, indeed, 
hostile speech on campus?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Thank you for your question, Congressman 
Neal. I think there are a few things to consider, and I would 
say right off the bat that the ADL has been fighting for civil 
rights for 110 years. We are ferocious advocates for the First 
Amendment.
    But, as I noted earlier, freedom of speech is not the 
freedom to slander people, right? Freedom to talk about ideas 
is not the freedom to threaten people based on their identity. 
But there are steps we could see university administrators 
take.
    So, number one, they should speak up forcefully and condemn 
anti-Semitism without any equivocation, without any 
qualification. Talia kind of alluded to this. It should be 
simple and straightforward to say anti-Semitism is wrong, 
period, and not encumber it with other issues.
    Number two, rigorously enforce disciplinary rules. The 
issues that I mentioned--and others--rarely have students been 
penalized. And it creates an environment where people feel like 
they can operate with impunity. But, if you break the rules, 
there should be consequences.
    Look, and I will be clear, I don't believe in cancel 
culture. I don't believe in canceling people for every imagined 
micro-aggression for, you know, for mislabeling someone. But I 
do believe in consequence culture. And if you issue death 
threats to a student, guess what? There will be a knock on your 
door from the FBI, you will be arrested, and you should be 
expelled. That should not be so hard.
    Now, we have seen some administrators step up. Today GW 
announced they were suspending the SJP chapter for violating 
the conduct code at GW. It happened last week at Columbia 
University. At Brandeis, they actually expelled them. But I 
don't think there should be a place on any campus for 
organizations like SJP that threaten people based on their 
ethnicity or faith or nationality.
    Thirdly, investigate these groups and try to understand 
where the funding coming from, try to make sense of how are 
they getting their resources.
    And finally, we think all of these universities should set 
up task forces to come up with plans to tackle this issue. The 
University of Pennsylvania was just mentioned by the chairman. 
The response there has been lacking for months. Harvard 
University dragged its feet. Columbia the same, and I could go 
on and on. Task forces with short timelines to come up with a 
plan is long overdue.
    Mr. NEAL. And let me say as well with the ADL, the ADL has 
a long history of condemning violations of everybody's civil 
rights.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Correct.
    Mr. NEAL. We are indeed grateful for your testimony today 
and the plan that you have outlined.
    I yield back my time.
    Thank you, Mr. Greenblatt.
    Chairman SMITH. Mr. Smith is recognized.
    Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you 
to our witnesses.
    Certainly, the entire committee here--these are important 
issues that we address, and today's hearing brings together two 
very important items of bipartisan interest on this committee: 
anti-Semitism and the tax status of college endowments.
    While we may not agree on every detail, I believe there is 
strong bipartisan support for ensuring the Federal tax benefits 
provided to the non-profit education sector are utilized for 
their intended purposes--that doesn't sound unreasonable, but--
ensuring access to the education and training needed for every 
American to be career-ready.
    We did some important work to that end in the Tax Cuts and 
Jobs Act, and I know some of my friends on the other side of 
the dais have ideas to address that issue, as well. One 
important aspect of this is ensuring educational institutions 
utilizing these tax benefits are both respecting true academic 
freedom while also ensuring all students have a safe--a safe 
learning environment. Not unreasonable.
    As we have unfortunately seen on campuses across the 
country, as some recent protests have quickly turned to 
intimidation, harassment, threats and violence, some 
universities have cited the First Amendment to explain their 
inaction. This is interesting, given that for years 
universities have failed to protect the free speech rights of 
students unless they approve of the speech. These universities 
practice a policy of preferred speech, as mentioned before, not 
free speech. And, of course, the threats of violence and 
intimidation we have seen on campuses of late are not protected 
speech.
    The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, as 
mentioned earlier, is known as FIRE, F-I-R-E, has helped to 
explain the difference: ``Violence is never protected by the 
First Amendment.'' Another quote, ``Physically confining 
students within a given space is likewise unlawful.'' Another 
quote, ``Just as violence is unprotected, so too are true 
threats and intimidation.''
    The failure of some universities to distinguish between 
protected speech and unlawful conduct is truly disappointing. 
As the chairman noted, this is a leading reason so many 
colleges and universities have received horrible ratings from 
the foundation called FIRE when it comes to free speech.
    Question. Mr. Lehman, you said in your written testimony, 
``I understand the needs and protections for academic freedom 
and free speech, but those freedoms are not a license to create 
an environment of harassment, bullying, and threats for Jewish 
students or for any students.'' So my question is, what--can 
you give us a tangible, perhaps, description of what a 
university's responsibility is to keep their students safe from 
activity that clearly goes beyond what some are saying is free 
speech?
    Mr. LEHMAN. Thank you, Congressman Smith. And I think we 
have to continue to go back to this very clear distinction.
    Free speech, academic freedom on the one side, cannot, 
should not, and never should be allowed to enable targeted 
harassment, inciting violence and other forms of intimidation 
that are directed at individual students. And that is exactly 
what is happening in the examples that you have heard.
    One area that we have really not talked a lot about, but I 
think helps to create this very pervasive environment of 
hostility and intimidation is in the classroom itself. During 
this period of five weeks at Stanford, we had a professor in a 
class herd Jewish students into the corner of the classroom 
without their belongings and say, ``This is what it feels like 
to be a Palestinian.'' That is what is happening in the 
classroom, where other faculty who are--as they go on their 
diatribes against, in their words, ``the evil settler colonial 
state of Israel,'' then say to their students, ``By the way, if 
you go to that Students for Justice in Palestine rally, I will 
give you extra credit, and if you don't you will basically get 
a demerit.'' So this is a broad-based cultural issue on 
campuses. It is obviously broken in terms of this aspect of 
campus culture.
    And, in terms of what can be done, you have heard a lot of 
great ideas, but fundamentally we needed administrators to 
actually take disciplinary action. And I am sorry to say it, 
but too often our universities are acting in equivocating ways 
and not being firm. Just go ahead and terminate that faculty 
member when they cross the line. Go ahead and expel that 
student when they harass or, even worse, assault another 
student. If we get the disciplinary action, I can tell you at 
Hillel we continue to actually work the other side of this 
equation. And thankfully, we do have many campus colleagues, 
administrators who are working with us on educating their staff 
on anti-Semitism and beyond.
    But, bottom line, we need action, and that is what we are 
looking for.
    Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. Thank you, I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Mr. Doggett is recognized.
    Mr. DOGGETT. Well, thank you so much, and thanks for the 
moving testimony that each of you have presented.
    The activities and the incidents that you describe are 
totally unacceptable and alarming. People who fail to 
unequivocally condemn the Hamas atrocities immediately just 
don't have much credibility with me, personally.
    Mr. Lehman, I appreciate these three specific 
recommendations you made, all of which seem to be reasonable. I 
know Mr. Greenblatt referred to the security grants, which have 
been helpful to a number of places in my community.
    In Austin, the only city I have ever called home, ADL has 
been a force for good for decades, and I know you have worked 
to combat the very kind of prejudice and hate that has been the 
focus here today, whether it was directed at Jews or any other 
segment of the community.
    A couple of years ago, sadly, in my community we had a 
spate of anti-Semitic events.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes.
    Mr. DOGGETT. A banner hung from a highway, some leaflets 
and crude fliers, and it all culminated in a young man who set 
fire to Temple Beth Israel in our community. It was alarming 
because we take pride on tolerance and diversity in our 
community.
    But one of the most moving and hopeful events after that 
was when a group of women, including many ADL members, Jewish 
women, organized a rally for kindness at the state capitol that 
I attended. And perhaps the most moving part of that event was 
a Muslim imam who stepped forward to present a check to the 
rabbi of Temple Beth, even though Muslims had nothing to do 
with the event, and to offer support and recognition of the 
importance of all faiths working together.
    I thought of that incident the other night, as I was 
watching cable television, and saw Rabbi Marc Schneier and Imam 
Shamsi Ali discussing the tragic situation we find ourselves in 
today. The Imam said that, ``For me, anti-Semitism is my fight, 
as he,'' referring to the rabbi, ``has taken Islamophobia for 
his fight. You know, we advance our common humanity that, 
despite our differences, we have even more in common. We 
deserve dignity. We deserve respect. We deserve peace and 
reconciliation. And I think the war is shared by each and every 
one of us.''
    And the rabbi responded by noting that they were going to 
every university in New York in each borough to spread the same 
message. Protest, demonstrate, do whatever you want, but don't 
cross the line.
    It seems to me that is where we need to be moving, to try 
to overcome the anger and the grief, to recognize that 
Islamophobia is just as wrong as anti-Semitism, to recognize 
that it cheapens and weakens efforts to unite us against anti-
Semitism when that term, anti-Semitism, is wielded as a 
political weapon.
    Criticism of Israel, very harsh criticism of Israel and 
Benjamin Netanyahu is not any more anti-Semitic than the voices 
of thousands of Israelis who were filling the streets of 
Jerusalem protesting Netanyahu before October 7. And support 
for Israel has always been strongest in this country when it is 
genuinely bipartisan.
    While deplorable anti-Semitic activities have been on the 
rise, certainly, there have also been troubling acts and hate 
speech against Muslim students across the country, as reported 
in university newspapers. Particularly vulnerable have been 
Muslim women who choose to wear the hijab. At the University of 
Texas in Austin, the disruption of a Palestinian meeting, at 
Yale, a Death to Palestine sign, here at American University, a 
death threat to a Palestinian university employee, and, at 
Stanford, a hit and run is being investigated as a hate crime 
against a Muslim.
    I think the pain and the grief and the anger of many who 
have seen children murdered by Hamas is not really very 
dissimilar from the anger that I am hearing from those who see 
children killed in Gaza. It doesn't mean they are equal. It 
means the hurt is the same, and the inability to feel the pain 
of the other because the pain is so very deep for that 
individual.
    We need more rabbis and imams and people of all faiths that 
are working together to try to heal the divide. And I salute 
your efforts to contribute not to us today, not only about 
anti-Semitism, but this need to heal as we move forward.
    I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you. Mr. Kelly is recognized.
    Mr. KELLY. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you all for being 
here today.
    It wasn't too long ago--in fact, it was October of 2018--in 
the neighborhood where my mother grew up, was a horrific 
killing at the Tree of Life. Eleven were killed and six were 
wounded. Squirrel Hill. Now, it was hard for me to believe that 
my mother, growing up in that neighborhood and being one of the 
nine members of the McTighe family, would ever be in a 
neighborhood where people fostered hate.
    But, you know, we keep seeing this go on and on and on and 
on, and while we have these nice paragraphs of what it is that 
we talk about and where it is that we think it needs to end, it 
finishes up with the final paragraph. I can't imagine what it 
is like for all of you to sit here today and have to defend 
your faith. Not in some far off land, but right in America, 
where these are the very things we champion.
    And, when we talk about ivory towers, the University of 
Pennsylvania, quite honestly, would be glad to tell you how 
great they are. They will tell you how welcoming they are, and 
how they are the greatest educational institution there is. 
However, the University of Pennsylvania Poetry Festival, it 
hosted a rogues' gallery of speakers who expressed unambiguous 
anti-Semitism and hostility towards the Jewish people. All this 
was hosted on the weekend of the holiest day in Judaism, Yom 
Kippur.
    Now, if somebody tells me this is just a coincidence, and 
we sit here and we talk about it, and we talk about it, and we 
condone it by our inactivity towards it, in our condemnation of 
it--look, I am from an Irish background. When the Irish came 
here, they looked at windows to try and get a job and it said, 
``Irish need not apply.'' Each one of our peoples have gone 
through something at some time or another. But the Jewish 
people, it is endless. It never stops.
    We have people in the highest positions of education 
opening their doors to this type of behavior and saying, no, 
you must understand, we need to hear both sides of this until 
it is that we put our fingers in our ears and close our eyes to 
what happens to the Jewish people, and open our hearts and 
minds and wallets, and give access to our universities--and 
championed by the very professors who teach our children. And 
these are the people? These are the people who we want our kids 
to follow? These are the people of higher education? These are 
the people who stand above those who don't have the same 
education, and yet this is what they sponsor? Are you kidding 
me? Are you kidding me?
    I can't imagine, Ms. Dror, what you have gone through. I 
can't imagine what you go through time after time after time. 
And people keep telling me we need to do something about it. 
Well, it is far past the time to do something about it and 
actually do something about it. Why would we continue to fund 
these universities with taxpayer dollars?
    Why, Mr. Lehman, if you can, if you can help me to 
understand this, because it is beyond anything I can grasp 
anymore because I wasn't raised this way, what in the heck is 
wrong with these people?
    And I don't--listen. I am never going to stand up and say, 
well, you know, Hamas, they have a reason to be like this. 
Bull. They have no reason to do what they did on October 7, 
they have no reason to do what they continue to do to the 
Jewish people. And for us to stand back and say, well, we 
should probably cut funding to them, we should probably try to 
act in some way, I am tired of a United States that sits and 
watches what happens and condemns it but doesn't do anything 
with its actions. Actions speak harder than words.
    Tell me, sir, what do you think we should be able to do, 
and especially--this is the tax-writing policy center, right?
    Mr. LEHMAN. Yes.
    Mr. KELLY. Why do we continue to fund these people?
    Mr. LEHMAN. Yes, thank you, Congressman Kelly. And my wife 
grew up a mile from the Tree of Life Synagogue. [Applause.]
    Mr. LEHMAN. She and I were married a mile from the Tree of 
Life Synagogue. We feel the pain of that community, and we do 
not want to see, as you said, that replicated, God forbid, on a 
college campus. And, if we don't act, if we don't collectively 
find a way, as you said, to heal these communities, to 
eradicate the hate that we are allowing to fester, we will see 
it.
    So I know I only have a few seconds to respond here, but, 
bottom line--and it is not dissimilar from what Mr. Doggett 
said, as well. All hate is a problem, but we should not turn a 
blind eye to the fact that we have sanctioned and universities 
have sanctioned allowing this very specific form of hate 
against Israel, a demonization that goes beyond anything one 
can imagine unless you are sitting on campus listening to it 
day in and day out, and a hate that says, when you are Jewish, 
it is okay to have this kind of discrimination pointed your 
way.
    We can do better. Some of us are working very hard, and you 
all--we gave recommendations. If you stand behind those, 
whether it is tax-based--title 6, by the way, it is a huge way 
to drive accountability. Universities feel that pain. So these 
are the steps we need to take.
    And again, I thank you for your passion.
    Mr. KELLY. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Mr. Thompson.
    Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, thank 
you for having this committee hearing today. And I want to 
thank all the witnesses for being here. I am extremely grateful 
that you are here and that you are speaking out against this 
dreadful behavior of hate. I appreciate the heartfelt testimony 
you have all offered, and I want to echo, along with my 
colleagues, in condemning anti-Semitism in all of its forms.
    The attacks on Israel were pure evil. And the victims, the 
hostages, survivors, and their families are in all of our 
prayers. The Hamas terrorists are barbaric, and they must not 
be allowed to further harm human beings or to terrorize 
communities. And I am certainly open to exploring how this 
committee can help combat anti-Semitism, and we had a little 
preview of that today on the floor. I was proud to vote for the 
amendment that I think everybody here voted for today.
    The testimony we have heard today is saddening and it is 
maddening. These activities should not be happening, and they 
can't be tolerated.
    I want to thank you all. I am sorry that you have--you are 
having to experience the pain and the tragic behavior that you 
are seeing on campuses.
    And I would ask, Mr. Chairman--wherever he is, whoever the 
chairman is at this point--that we do a joint bipartisan letter 
to the FBI and the IRS asking for that review that was 
suggested in the testimony. [Applause.]
    Mr. KELLY [presiding]. I really don't need a mic because--
especially talking about subjects--thank you, thanks so much.
    Mr. THOMPSON. You missed your chance. The chairman is back 
now. [Laughter.]
    Mr. KELLY. Yes, I saw that. I thought that was----
    Mr. THOMPSON. If we could do a joint letter, I am sure 
that----
    Mr. KELLY. Absolutely.
    Mr. THOMPSON [continuing]. Both sides would sign that, and 
I think it would be helpful. And if we could get an agreement 
to do that, thank you, I yield back.
    Mr. KELLY. Yes, sir.
    Chairman SMITH [presiding]. Mr. Schweikert is recognized.
    Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I apologize to 
the members and our witnesses. We are running multiple 
committees up and down but care an awful lot about this.
    I also have a concern. And Dr. Schanzer, some of this was 
directed to you, and that is have we created a scenario here 
where even parts of our own tax code, whether it be the ability 
to use certain pre-tax dollars, run them through what is 
supposed to be a charitable shell, and through the movement of 
those monies we are actually functionally financing evil, 
whether it be coming back to our universities or around the 
world?
    And it is a running concern on the mechanisms within, you 
know, 501(c)(4)s, certain designs, the way we actually do not 
get as much information on those who get the value of a non-
profit.
    You have an expertise on terrorism finance. How much 
leakage from this country is actually leaking in to violence 
and functionally dystopian evil in the world?
    Mr. SCHANZER. Congressman Schweikert, thank you for the 
question. It is a very good one.
    I will say this, that, in the 2000s, at the height of the 
war on terror, we were doing a very good job of making sure 
that the non-profit sector was not leaking into the world of 
terrorism. In the last 10 or 12 years, we have seen a 
significant drop-off in actions taken against 501(c)(3)s here 
at home. And I think it has a lot to do with the bandwidth of 
our system, and I am sure that those men and women who are 
working in law enforcement are doing a great job on a range of 
other challenges, but I think we have probably lost the scent 
on a lot of them.
    And I can tell you that there are a handful that we are 
watching right now. There is one organization that is openly 
gloating right now about sending money and other assistance to 
the Gaza ministry of health. The Gaza ministry of health is run 
by Hamas. I am talking here about an organization known as 
Pious Projects. It is based out of Illinois. No one knows. No 
one is watching. This is, I think, a major issue.
    And, by the way, it could be supporting al-Qaeda, it could 
be supporting ISIS. We don't know. And I think we need to get 
back in the business of tracking these 501(c)(3)s.
    Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Doctor, so in our hierarchy of hell, how 
much of it is a leakage of NGOs? How much of it is a leakage of 
those using what we actually reach out and thought we were 
creating within the tax code, the incentive to use pre-tax 
money to do charitable good? And how much of it is actually--do 
you believe, from your expertise, leakage of where even the 
U.S. taxpayers are directly attempting to try to provide 
humanitarian assistance?
    Help me understand, you know----
    Mr. LEHMAN. Look, it is all--these are all good questions. 
And I think right now they are hypotheticals because we don't 
have the people working on it the way that we used to. And this 
is the great frustration, right?
    We used to have--the Treasury Department, where I used to 
work, used to track non-profits here in the United States and 
abroad. Now, they don't do anything here at home. They only 
deal with terror finance abroad. This leaves it into the hands 
of the Department of Justice and the FBI, who have their hands 
full right now on a range of other things that are keeping 
America, let's just say, very busy, right?
    So we have got, I think, a huge challenge here. I think 
there should be, number one, investigations into non-profits 
that could be supporting terrorism. And we have talked about a 
few of them today.
    But I think there also should be--and I would welcome 
this--there should be regulations that, if you have worked for 
a charity that has given money to a terrorist organization in 
the past, that should be flagged. Americans need to know who 
they are giving their non-profit dollars to. And, if they 
don't, they run the risk of possibly supporting something that 
they don't want to support.
    Mr. SCHANZER. Can I make a recommendation? Donor advised 
funds--Schwab, Vanguard--these are the largest charitable 
organizations in the United States. Their leadership should be 
brought in to ensure that they are not funneling funds to these 
terror-supporting organizations.
    Mr. SCHWEIKERT. You would be happy to know the chairman and 
a couple of our members here who actually sit on Intelligence, 
we have had side conversations on charitable giving, pre-tax 
monies, those things, and how we make sure it is doing good in 
the world and not ultimately financing evil.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, thank you for your patience, I 
yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you. Mr. Blumenauer is recognized.
    Mr. BLUMENAUER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the 
opportunity for our friends today to express their deep 
concern, and to focus perhaps on some steps that we can take.
    I am absolutely convinced that this horrific set of 
circumstances that we have been thrust into in Israel dealing 
with Gaza is--that we are at a pivotal point. I have been in 
Congress 27 years. I have been in Congress 27 years. I have 
reluctantly decided to leave you folks to solve things in the 
future. But this is something that just haunts me.
    My first visit to Israel, I had a chance to go to Ramallah 
at a police station. And there were two people in command. One 
was Israeli, one was Palestinian. And there was this sense of 
hope and optimism. Hamas decided that they were going to turn 
away from that and have been working ever since, actively 
undermining it.
    And I have heard all the arguments. I understand the 
legitimate concerns of Palestinians. I have watched settlers 
scream at us on the West Bank. But the time, I think, at this 
point is for us to focus on things that can bring us together, 
on simple steps. There is no excuse for tolerating violence. 
Freedom of speech is not a get-out-of-jail-free card to be able 
to abuse others. And everybody, I think, has a role to play in 
moving this forward.
    I am still shaken from a conversation I had, a Zoom meeting 
with constituents of mine who have had relatives taken hostage. 
And just listening to that circumstance, that pain, that 
uncertainty is just overwhelming.
    And I know that there are strong feelings. We all 
understand that. But coming forward with some specifics to be 
able to elevate concerns and think about things that we can do 
going forward--I appreciate Mr. Thompson's suggestion--and we 
have an expression, a combined expression that is positive.
    I hope that we don't have to continue to make clear that 
anti-Semitism has no role on campus or in American society, but 
I hope that we are committed to being able to find some things 
that actually bring us together. And you have made some 
suggestions today that are part of that.
    This is, for me, exceedingly painful because I remember on 
my first visit to Israel that sense of hope and optimism. And 
we know, ultimately, we need to have a two-state solution. And 
I have heard too many young Israelis and Palestinians tell me 
they think it is still a good idea, but they have given up 
hope. And I don't think we can afford to give up hope. And you 
have helped us today, I think, frame part of these issues. You 
haven't given up hope, and I appreciate your joining us.
    Chairman SMITH. Mr. LaHood is recognized.
    Mr. LaHOOD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having this 
hearing today, and I want to thank all of the witnesses for 
your passion and your courage and your commitment and 
dedication to this issue. It is very important to have your 
voices here today.
    Obviously, the barbaric terrorist attacks by Hamas on 
Israel last month have been devastating to witness, and it is 
imperative that the United States continue to make clear that 
we stand with Israel, our number-one ally in the Middle East 
and the only democracy, and also the Jewish people.
    As the title of this hearing suggests, part of that effort 
needs to be looking under the hood here in the United States 
and ensuring that U.S. entities, especially those that benefit 
from U.S. taxpayer dollars and tax-exempt status, are not 
contributing to these unconscionable acts.
    Since the start of these attacks, it is infuriating and 
unbelievable and really sad to see the rise in anti-Semitism 
and targeted, hateful speech occurring across the United 
States, with some of the worst instances occurring in our 
colleges and our universities. While we have finally started to 
see more university leaders state outright that these efforts 
will not be tolerated on their campuses, much of the damage has 
already been done.
    Moreover, the delay in many colleges and universities 
speaking out against these organized student groups has only 
fueled the spread of lies, harmful rhetoric, and coordinated 
activities that have incited violence and ostracized countless 
Jewish students, faculty, alumni, and community members. This 
shouldn't happen in America.
    Ms. Tishby, I have a question for you. As we look at the 
language and the distortion and the tropes and the 
misconceptions that have been used on many of our campuses, can 
you talk about some of the examples of these being used against 
Israel?
    Ms. TISHBY. Oh, well, thank you so much for this question. 
There are so many I don't even know where to start.
    So the tactic that they use is, first of all, branding 
Israel an apartheid state and delegitimize Israel's standing in 
the world. So they are trying to convince young and naive 
college students that Israel is--is it a real state, or is it a 
colonialist settler endeavor that needs to be dismantled?
    They would use words like ethnic cleansing and genocide. 
They are actually convincing college kids--there are people 
right now that are watching me, maybe at home, that actually 
are convinced that Israel is committing an ethnic cleansing of 
the Palestinians. This is--Representative, this is a blood 
libel. This is absolutely not true.
    And the worst lie of all that they are using--and they are 
doing it in a very sophisticated, kind of like progressive 
language, right--the worst lie is denying the indigeneity of 
the Jewish people to the land of Israel. They are actually 
saying that Israel does not have a claim, the Jews have no 
claim to the land. This is a--you don't need to believe in the 
Bible, the New Testament, the Old Testament, or the Koran, you 
need to just know history and believe in archeology and 
science.
    So these are--this is the tactic that they use. They are 
convincing--they have confiscated the word Zionism. They have 
turned the word Zionism into a bad word, into a slur, as if it 
is--you say the word ``Zionism,'' and people are, like, oh my 
God, I am triggered. Why are you triggered by the Jewish 
people's right to have a state? You shouldn't be triggered by 
that. That should be the most common--this is a human rights 
issue. Nothing more, nothing less. And this is the tactic that 
they use.
    And I will give a pass to a lot of these followers of SJP, 
a lot of these students on college campus. They don't 
understand that they are being played. They--because SJP 
doesn't come to them and says flat out, ``Would you like to 
join an organization that is about to dismantle a democracy?'' 
They don't say that. They say, you know, freedom, and justice, 
and they use all these words, and they basically trick students 
to follow them.
    And the worst part is the indigeneity of the Jewish people. 
This needs to stop. We need to expose them.
    Mr. LaHOOD. Well, thank you for that. And it leads to my 
next point, I guess. It seems like many of these student groups 
and these organizations are masking behind social justice 
terminology. Can you talk a little bit about that?
    Ms. TISHBY. Absolutely, they do. So they will kind of, 
again, mask their language. I call it cloaking the dagger. So 
when they talk about occupation, right, a lot of people tend to 
think, especially people that understand this term, they think 
occupation '67. They would think the West Bank and two states, 
and it is kind of like murky, right?
    They are not hiding what they are talking about right now. 
They are chanting, ``We don't want 2 states, we want '48.'' So 
they are talking about the entirety of the state of Israel, 
right? They use, obviously, ``From the river to the sea, 
Palestine will be free,'' it talks about the Jordan River to 
the Mediterranean Sea, ethnically cleansing the Jews from their 
ancestral land.
    I don't understand how Representative Rashida Tlaib says 
that they are--this is a call for freedom. I don't understand 
how you can understand that line, ``from the river to the sea, 
Palestine will be free,'' in any other way, other than cleaning 
the Jews out of this land.
    So everything that they say is calling what they say 
resistance by all means possible, even after October 7. So that 
means resistance by beheading babies and raping women and 
girls, because that is what they say. And we need to expose 
this.
    And I would really hope that college-age kids would listen 
to this and pause for a second before they join in these 
organizations that are not progressive organizations, they are 
not human rights organizations. They are hate groups that are 
intended on dismantling the single, consistent democracy in the 
entire Middle East and the greatest ally of the United States 
in the region. We have to stop them. [Applause.]
    Mr. LaHOOD. My time is expired, thank you.
    Ms. TISHBY. Thank you.
    Chairman SMITH. Dr. Wenstrup is recognized.
    Mr. WENSTRUP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all 
very much for being here today.
    You know, the actions taken on October 7 seemingly were 
unimaginable. Yet something, unfortunately, I contend, 
predictable, sadly. This was not for defense of someone's 
families. It was not for love of a culture or heritage, but for 
a hate of one singular ethnic group. Complete hatred. It was 
mentioned today the final solution. They are not talking about 
a solution, a two-state solution. It is their final solution.
    Maybe this is by the grace of God, but we were cleaning the 
house and a picture frame opened up in the back, an old 
newspaper came out, and I am going to submit this article for 
the record from April 1994.
    Chairman SMITH. Without objection.
    [The information follows:]
    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. WENSTRUP. It is an AP piece in the Cincinnati Enquirer: 
``Troops leave, stones lobbed.'' These are troops leaving Gaza 
in 1994. So, ``even though the moving was a visible sign of 
Israel's intent to leave, Palestinian youths with slingshots 
lobbed stones that bounce off the walls and the olive drab 
jeeps, youths screaming, we don't want peace. There will be 
stones every day, shouted the youths, many aligned with the 
Islamic fundamentalist Hamas group that opposes the Israel-PLO 
peacemaking process.''
    There it is. It is 30 years later. Now they are middle-
aged. They are fighting age. This is the very root of this, and 
I am glad we are talking about things that the United States 
can do, and that we can do in the region, and everything else. 
But this is the root cause. But now I am concerned that very 
hatred that is taught, obviously, from the day they are born is 
happening here, and happening in our universities. It is the 
upbringing of hatred.
    We talk about the FBI and the IRS, and those are some 
things we can certainly do. We talk about national strategy. 
Should we have a national strategy? We should. I contend we 
should make sure we sanction and cut off any type of funding 
from anywhere in the world, including within our own country, 
that in some way, shape, or form ends up in the hands of Hamas.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Hear, hear.
    Mr. WENSTRUP. We can do that. We, the United States, can do 
that, and we need to do that.
    I am concerned about our universities. This is terrible. 
Every one of us has universities near us, and we send our kids 
to universities. This is not the type of thing I was taught 
growing up, that is for sure.
    So I have seen in Florida--and I would like to associate 
myself with the questions of Mr. LaHood and to you, Ms. 
Tishby--when Florida is shutting down chapters of SJP, what 
kind of an effect is that having--will that have, do we think--
as far as maybe changing the tenor and the mindset?
    Ms. TISHBY. Well, that was a blessed moment. You know, we 
all appreciated that a lot, because we have been doing this 
work for a very long time. And we really appreciate--all of us 
on this bench really appreciate that you are all here and are 
listening.
    There are hundreds of examples of how SJP harasses students 
on college campus. At GW, they screened on the wall, ``Glory to 
our martyrs'' right after the massacre, right?
    And I want to make sure, by the way, that we know that this 
is not a little terrorist attack. This is not 5, 4, 6, 19 
terrorists. This was a battalion of 3,000 militant terrorists, 
psychopaths that have attacked Israel. ``Glory to our 
martyrs,'' to the same people who opened up a woman's belly 
when she is pregnant and pulled out her fetus.
    The University of North Carolina, they chanted, ``We are 
all Hamas.'' This is what SJP does on campus. Just like terror, 
they terrorize Jewish kids on campus. They terrorize Jewish 
kids on campus. They make them afraid. The reason Talia is so 
brave is because she knows that to be a person who is a 
Zionist, who is Jewish, who is an American, a Christian, or a 
Muslim, anybody who supports Israel on campus, you will get 
terrorized. This is what they do. And we need to stop this.
    And I want to commend you again for being here, because we 
know what it is like to be a kid on campus. This is being with 
the not cool crowd. This is being pushed out of the ``cool 
spaces.'' So we need to give her--applaud and actually make it 
great again to support Israel, and to support and be a proud 
Zionist. And again, all of you here, we are really grateful for 
what you are doing. And with the help of the good Lord, we 
will--and you--kick SJP off of every campus in America and 
around the world. [Applause.]
    Mr. WENSTRUP. And we support freedom of religion, period. 
It is in our Constitution.
    Ms. TISHBY. Absolutely, absolutely.
    Mr. WENSTRUP. And I will tell you, this government sends a 
lot of money to universities. I will leave it at that.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Mr. Pascrell.
    Mr. PASCRELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to each of 
the panelists.
    The barbaric acts and attacks by Hamas are heartbreaking, 
stomach-turning, sheer evil. We could have had a bipartisan 
House response that it was outrageous when we left out 
humanitarian help and conditioned Israel aid on tax relief for 
the ultra-wealthy. Could have.
    We must also guard against terror and hate at home. And we 
have heard about that today. At my request, the President 
sought $200 million more for the non-profit security grant 
program. It has been successful. We started it many years ago 
in the Homeland Security Committee. Jonathan, you know about 
that. These dollars are needed to protect synagogues, mosques, 
churches, community centers across America facing renewed 
threats.
    The tax-exempt organization like Hillel at Rutgers and 
Princeton and so many others across the country couldn't be 
eligible. We didn't even include a single cent for this program 
in the bipartisan package. Not one cent.
    According to the ADL--and I am sorry if you become my 
Bible, my Bible, but you have, you have been fair to everybody, 
not many organizations are fair to everybody--``Isn't it peace 
that we seek, or is it settling?''
    There has been a nearly 400 percent increase in anti-
Semitic incidents across the country since Hamas massacred so 
many people. We are seeing more than a 200 percent increase in 
Islamophobic incidents. This is the largest rise since Donald 
Trump's shameful Muslim ban. That solves a lot.
    Colleges have reported a startling surge of threats and 
violence, particularly against Jewish, with some Muslim 
students. We live in America. No one should face hatred, no one 
should face vitriol because of their heritage.
    I have sounded the alarm on domestic extremism for 15 years 
and gotten mostly the deaf ear from both Republicans and 
Democrats. It is historically in the books. I fight every year 
for more funding to protect non-profits.
    Today's hearing only reinforces the need for emergency 
funding for non-profit security grants. This is all empty talk. 
Actions matter, as was said. Put a full bipartisan security 
supplemental on the floor. I am willing to vote for it.
    Finally, I see one of the witnesses here, Mr. Schanzer.
    You mentioned me by name. I hope I have the courtesy of 
responding. In your testimony, you impugned the integrity and 
loyalty of my constituents.
    What he implies is total rubbish. My constituents have the 
right to petition their government just like you, just like me.
    So, Mr. Greenblatt, I appreciate the ADL's consistent 
support for the program I am talking about.
    I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter 
from the ADL and a coalition of national Jewish organizations, 
including Hillel. The letter calls on the Biden Administration 
to include emergency non-profit security grant funding in its 
security supplemental package. To the record?
    Chairman SMITH. Without objection.
    [The information follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. PASCRELL. Mr. Greenblatt, can you please expand on the 
importance of these grants, and why do we need additional 
funding quickly for these essential grants?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. So the non-profit security grant program--
and Congressman Pascrell, you deserve credit for your 
leadership on this for so, so long--it protects synagogues and 
Jewish schools. It protects churches. It protects HBCUs. It 
allows these institutions to fortify themselves from the 
threats that are real.
    And I think about the shooting that took place at the 
Dollar General in Jacksonville earlier this year. The shooter 
went to a local HBCU and was deterred because of the campus 
security funded by this grant program.
    And I think about Congress, the earlier comments about 
Pittsburgh. We just honored the five-year anniversary of that 
deadliest day in America. And again, had they had the non-
profit security grant program in place, and they had the 
adequate funding there, many lives might have been saved.
    We saw shootings in the past year in California at Asian-
American churches. Again, had they had access to the funding, 
lives could have been saved.
    This is not a red or blue issue. This is not a Jewish or 
Christian or Muslim issue. This is everyone's issue and 
everyone's opportunity. So we would strongly advise or second 
the idea of more money to fund the non-profit security grant 
program.
    Mr. PASCRELL. Mr. Speaker, can I just conclude a point 
quickly?
    Chairman SMITH. Conclude quickly, please.
    Mr. PASCRELL. We are here, as I see it--and correct my 
perception--but we here, to find a way to bring people 
together. I mean, that is the purpose of the Congress, try to 
avoid conflict, certainly stand up and be against violence.
    And I would hope that what would come out of this 
committee, any committee, is not only good intentions, but also 
that we understand that there is a history here. You cannot 
pass legislation to undo history, and we have to understand, in 
context, the very problems that we are talking about.
    And I have been interpreted by some as saying, well, then 
you are someone who simply wants to look the other way. I don't 
want to look the other way, but I want to be fair about it 
because the rest have failed in what we tried to do in order to 
help the peace. We need to rethink it together.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Mr. Smucker.
    Mr. SMUCKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding today's 
hearing. Thank you to each of the witnesses. A lot has been 
said here today that I agree with.
    I do just want to mention, you know, number one, there is 
no equivalency between what Hamas did, the horrific attacks, 
and Israel defending itself. And I think it is important that 
is said. And I think the article that Mr. Wenstrup found 
highlights that years ago the Palestinians could have chosen 
peace and prosperity and coexisting with Israel, and have 
chosen instead violence and destruction for many, many years. 
And so we stand with Israel and Israel's right to defend 
itself.
    And, you know, we had a hearing on this yesterday in 
another committee, and it is just--it is still unbelievable to 
me that we are seeing what we are seeing on our college 
campuses. There was a student from Princeton who said, 
essentially, the Jewish students have retreated to the Jewish 
centers because they don't feel that they can participate in 
campus life. And it is just--it is sad to see. You know, we 
have seen Jewish students violently attacked with microphones, 
forced to lock themselves in a library in their dorms because 
they fear for their own safety. And it is just hard for me to 
believe that that is happening today. In my own district 
Millersville University students were targeted when a man drew 
two swastikas on campus.
    And one of the things I want to focus on today, though, and 
just get your thoughts--and maybe one of the themes of this 
hearing--is the money that is flowing into universities, and 
then where universities are spending their money, and whether 
this has some impact on the positions that they are taking. And 
I would like some of you to speak to that.
    We know that foreign countries are investing heavily in our 
universities, and they could potentially be abusing our U.S. 
tax system while they are doing that. In some cases, this is 
certainly countries that do not share our democratic values.
    And so, Mr. Schanzer, I just want to ask about college 
endowments, reporting requirements for foreign investments. 
What steps--should we be concerned? And, if so, what steps 
should Congress take to ensure that these colleges and 
universities are fully disclosing where funds are coming from 
and then are not investing tuition and donor dollars into 
countries which actively oppose the U.S.?
    Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you, Congressman. I am going to direct 
my comments here specifically to the country of Qatar. And 
there is a reason for that, because the Qataris are a state 
sponsor of Hamas. They are right now being looked at as an 
intermediary that may be able to help return those 240 hostages 
that are being held in Gaza right now.
    But we know that the country of Qatar has been giving 
hundreds of millions of dollars to Hamas over the years, and 
they have an office. And, in that office--we have actually seen 
the video of some of those Hamas operatives cheering as they 
saw the news break on 10/7, and the Qataris have not kicked 
them out.
    I am going to cite a couple of numbers here, and they are 
staggering. Qatari expenditures on American universities 
between 2002 and 2023 exceeds $4.7 billion. This is a country, 
I should just remind you, of 300,000 people, okay? They have 
been spending an average of $250 million per year. It has been 
actually $3 billion between 2013 and 2019.
    There was a moment--actually, in Texas--where Texas A&M, 
which has been receiving funds from the Qataris, they did not 
want to disclose--there was a lawsuit that ultimately had to be 
filed. And eventually, that money was----
    Mr. SMUCKER. I only have a--I would love to hear more, but 
I only have another minute.
    And by the way, Cornell is one that has received up to one-
and-a-half billion----
    Mr. SCHANZER. Almost two billion.
    Mr. SMUCKER [continuing]. In funding from Arab countries.
    Mr. SCHANZER. Correct.
    Mr. SMUCKER. Specifically, Qatar and Saudi Arabia and 
others.
    Mr. SCHANZER. Correct.
    Mr. SMUCKER. Do you think these colleges are endangering 
students' safety and academic integrity by accepting these 
funds?
    And do we know what these countries are receiving in 
return?
    Mr. SCHANZER. We don't know what the countries are 
receiving in return, and that is a huge problem. And we need to 
see the contracts. We need to see what the universities agreed 
to in order to receive those funds, and it is not happening.
    The Department of Education is actually woefully behind in 
tracking these disclosures. That is something that I would hope 
that this committee would look into.
    Mr. SMUCKER. Thank you.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you. Mr. Estes is recognized.
    Mr. ESTES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all 
our witnesses for showing up for this critical hearing, and 
talking through this issue that is so vital to the world. And 
we are seeing the impact as we look at all the news the last 
six weeks. Your testimony has certainly been impactful and 
heart-wrenching.
    It is sad that we have to convene on a topic of anti-
Semitism following the atrocities that occurred in Israel. I am 
disgusted, even after hearing reports and seeing footage of 
Hamas slaughtering families and babies and abducting hundreds 
of other civilians. There are some here in the United States 
that call the barbaric invasion and massacre ``exhilarating,'' 
yet that was the word used by a university professor within our 
borders. These are heinous acts that we should all denounce in 
rooting out anti-Semitism. And standing with our ally, Israel, 
is not a partisan issue.
    As mentioned earlier yesterday, hundreds of thousands of 
Americans rallied here in our nation's capital, and leaders of 
both political parties spoke in solidarity with our Jewish 
friends and allies. Yet on our college campuses, what should be 
the bastion of knowledge, students and faculty have abandoned 
the history of the state of Israel and the facts of the ongoing 
war and have instead sided with a terrorist organization that 
is intent on wiping out the Jewish people and rallying around 
the cries of death to America.
    And U.S. officials have confirmed that Hamas is using 
hospitals, hospitals as command centers and armories. So why 
are the most rabid anti-Semites and the most vocal Hamas 
backers on our U.S. college campuses and--often in positions of 
prominence?
    Universities seem to have become a safe harbor for anti-
Semitic and anti-American rhetoric. And it is actually 
frightening to uncover the financial ties between higher 
education funding and anti-Semitism. You know, a recent report, 
as mentioned earlier, about--from the National Contagion 
Research Institute highlights about the $13 million in 
unreported foreign contributions to approximately 200 U.S. 
colleges and universities. A common thread between these 
institutions of higher education was greater exposure to anti-
Semitic rhetoric.
    Not only that, but even student groups such as Students for 
Justice in Palestine are linked to unsavory organizations that 
once had ties to terrorism and potential financial links to 
Hamas.
    On top of that, the leadership of many of these colleges 
have been slow to respond, giving the impression that they 
condone the anti-Semitic and antagonistic methods of the 
student population.
    Today, I am grateful to have you folks here that are 
standing up to anti-Semitism and boldly supporting the state of 
Israel.
    Mr. Schanzer, you studied Middle Eastern history 
extensively. What is your take when you hear students, college 
students, say that the Palestinians are only trying to defend 
against colonialization, and that the Jewish people are on 
stolen land?
    Where has our education system gone wrong in that process?
    Mr. SCHANZER. Mr. Congressman, thank you so much for that 
question. I will just say that I believe that Middle Eastern 
studies in America has failed over the last 20, 30, maybe 40 
years. It has been utterly corrupted. We see tenured professors 
teaching opinion and not fact.
    When you go back and you look at the history of this 
conflict, there was a partition plan that was proposed before 
the state of Israel was established. There was going to be a 
Palestinian state and an Israeli state living side by side. The 
Palestinians rejected it, as did the surrounding Arab states. 
Israel ended up winning a great deal of that territory in a 
hard-fought war from 1948 to 1949.
    Israel still held out hope that it might be able to make 
peace with its neighbors. And then there was war in 1956, 
another war in 1967. Every time the Israelis offered up a peace 
agreement, it was met with rejection. There was the famous 
three noes from Khartoum, from the Arab League, where they said 
no recognition, no negotiation, and no peace.
    This has been the history, the tragic history of the Middle 
East, where we could have seen peace agreements forged. It has 
not happened. And yet what we see from professors on our 
campuses is the vilification of Israel, which has been the one 
party that has been willing to make peace over these years.
    Mr. ESTES. That is right, thank you. Yes. I mean, that is a 
good, short rendition of what really has happened, and we need 
to be aware of that.
    Mr. Greenblatt, how has the indoctrination of hatred 
towards Jews and by Hamas and Palestinian authorities been 
utilized to ramp up such hatred, particularly in the Middle 
East but, I mean, to some degree throughout the United States, 
as well?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Throughout the United States, Mr. 
Congressman, I am glad you asked.
    I mean, what we have seen--and I would attribute much of 
this to the normalization of anti-Zionism. Anti-Zionism is the 
ideology that says Jews don't have the same rights that we 
would afford to Palestinians or other people. Zionism is has 
been demonized. It is just the idea that Jews have the right to 
self-determination in their ancestral homeland. That is it. It 
doesn't exclude Palestinians. There is no ethnocentric 
dimension to it. It is just the right to self-determination. 
But the normalization of anti-Zionism is this ugly trend, and 
it has really come through these universities.
    Let me be crystal clear for the record. Anti-Zionism is 
anti-Semitism, period, full stop.
    And you know who knows this well? Talia knows this well. 
The students know this well, because they see what is happening 
in these Middle Eastern studies departments that Dr. Schanzer 
talked about, and what is happening out of the classroom on the 
quad.
    I mean, these incidences are really almost indescribable, 
and we wouldn't tolerate it if it happened against any other 
group of students, nor should we. Imagine if, in a world where 
we were upset about Beijing's policies, we saw students 
vandalizing Chinese restaurants. Or imagine if they were 
demonstrating outside the Asian Study Center. We would say that 
is indescribably bad and unacceptable, just as this is, and it 
needs to stop now.
    Mr. ESTES. Well, thank you.
    And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. CAREY [presiding]. Thank you. The chair recognizes Mr. 
Davis for five minutes.
    Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I too thank you for 
calling this hearing.
    And, to all of the witnesses, I appreciate very much the 
profound comments and statements that you have made.
    You know, as I was thinking, we are moving towards 
Thanksgiving. And I thought of my grandmother, who taught us to 
never look down at anybody else unless we were trying to figure 
out how to help them up. And she also taught us to try and have 
consideration for others that we would seek for ourselves.
    Then I thought of my father, who was her son. And he taught 
us to try and live by the Golden Rule. That is, do unto others 
as you would have them do unto you.
    And finally, arriving at the idea that we all learn what we 
live, and then we have a tendency to live what we learn, our 
colleges and universities have been leaders towards more open, 
more expansive, more tolerant societies. That is kind of the 
way we have been taught to think of academia and to think of 
academic institutions. And it is most unfortunate that they 
seemingly, in many instances, according to studies and reports 
and documentation, to be going in other directions.
    Mr. Greenblatt, my question is going to arrive at you for 
two reasons. One, all of my adult life, beginning as a 
teenager, I have been very engaged, involved, and close to 
organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union, 
organizations like the ADL. I have had the good fortune to know 
outstanding Jewish leaders like Rabbi Marx and James Ramsey and 
spent considerable time with them in Chicago. If it happens, 
much of it happens in Chicago, it just happens to be the 
Midwest where it is located. But I have also spent considerable 
time with Palestinian leaders and Palestinian groups and have 
been to mosques and have been to temples and had those 
experiences.
    My question is, how do we move beyond where things seem to 
be coming, and what are some of those concrete things that 
perhaps can be taught that help us move in the direction of 
getting where we need to go?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Well, Mr. Congressman, I appreciate the 
question.
    First of all, I think, like you, my organization has been 
involved in the fight for civil rights for--since before any of 
us were alive. And I am proud that my predecessors marched in 
Selma, stood with Dr. King long before it was fashionable to do 
so. And the fight today for peace is going to require us to 
take risks, as well.
    And let's be clear. The death of any Palestinian child or 
woman or innocent in Gaza is a tragedy, and we should mourn 
those losses.
    We also should have the moral clarity to understand why are 
they happening. The scenes coming out of Gaza City today of 
Hamas operatives embedded in hospitals, using the sick and the 
infirm to defend themselves, are despicable. They are 
intolerable, and they are morally unacceptable. So we should 
free Gaza from Hamas.
    That being said, how do we move forward here today? We need 
the Jewish and Muslim communities in this country--by the way, 
not just Muslims and Jews, all people--to realize that we need 
dignity and equality for Palestinians, but it will only happen 
when Israelis also have safety and security, that the two paths 
cannot be divergent, they must be convergent, with both sides 
recognizing each other's inalienable rights.
    And I will be honest with you. There has been a long 
movement in the United States, a peace movement in the Jewish 
community, seeking a two-state solution, seeking to work 
together with their Palestinian neighbors.
    I think of Vivian Silver, this Canadian-Israeli woman. She 
was a peace activist. Her role, Congressman, was taking sick 
Palestinians, those needing medical treatment, driving them 
from the border into Israel to get treatment. She was 
butchered, mutilated, her corpse so destroyed they thought she 
had been kidnaped. They didn't recognize this 70-year-old's 
body. They couldn't make a positive ID for almost five weeks. 
Literally, the depravity here is beyond words.
    So, I say to you we need to recognize our common humanity, 
and we can do that after we defeat the evil of Hamas.
    Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. 
[Applause.]
    Mr. CAREY. Mr. Hern is recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. HERN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    There are many Jewish families and organizations in my 
district that are integral to our community. My district also 
has a large evangelical population that prays for the peace of 
Jerusalem, and I am proud to be one of them. In Tulsa, we have 
the Sherwin Miller Museum, which hosts a sobering exhibit 
educating citizens on the realities of the Holocaust. 
Understanding and remembering history is important if we wish 
to avoid repeating the horrors of the past.
    Anti-Semitic demonstrations are taking place on college 
campuses across the country, and anti-Semitism is up nearly 400 
percent in the United States since the Israel-Hamas War began. 
It is deeply troubling to see the lack of moral clarity in 
university leaders who fail or refuse to condemn anti-Semitic 
demonstration on campuses. It is a sad day in America when 
parents at school board meetings are deemed terrorists, but 
Hamas's brutal violence against women and children is defended, 
even celebrated.
    Unfortunately, this confusion and chaos in institutions of 
higher ed is not an anomaly. For decades, we have seen 
prestigious college campuses slowly soil their reputations by 
embracing Marxism, Confucius Institutes, and moral relativism 
at the expense of merit, virtue, and truth. Education is no 
longer the mission of these universities. Whether intentionally 
or out of naive stupidity, universities have allowed radical 
ideologies, often funded by the Chinese Communist Party, to 
indoctrinate our students.
    All is not lost, though. In the face of blatant hatred and 
anti-Semitism, I have been encouraged by the support millions 
of Americans of all races and religions have shown to our 
Jewish friends and neighbors. Last week, there was a community 
meeting in Tulsa to stand up against anti-Semitic hate at a 
local Jewish synagogue. We need more of these kinds of meetings 
across America.
    Supporting Hamas is supporting terrorism, plain and simple. 
We should not provide tax exemption status to organizations 
that funnel money to terrorists or take money from known 
terrorist states. The American people should know if their 
money is going to support terrorism, and they should be 
appalled even if one American cent has contributed to the 
causes of terrorism.
    As a member of the Ways and Means Committee, we hold the 
power of the purse and tax-exempt status. With that power comes 
great responsibility to provide oversight on charities and 
universities that potentially abuse the tax-exempt status. 
American universities continue to receive billions of dollars 
in the form of taxpayer subsidies through tax breaks and 
Federal payments. Yet anti-Semitic incidents rise on their 
campuses. Higher ed should not continue to receive taxpayer 
money in the form of Federal payments, grants, or tax 
exemptions if they continue to turn a blind eye to anti-
Semitism on their campuses.
    The role the media has played in the recent rise in anti-
Semitism should be noted. We have seen various news outlets 
downplay violent confrontations and threats to harm Jewish 
people, place blame on Israel despite the--being the victims of 
Hamas's attacks, and even try and justify the anti-Semitic acts 
of some.
    For example, CBS titled an article ``Jewish Man, 69, Dies 
After a Clash During Dueling Protests over Israel-Palestinian 
Conflict in LA Area,'' and, by doing so, downplayed the fact 
that the elderly man was violently struck in the head by a pro-
Palestinian supporter with a megaphone.
    Ms. Tishby, what--I mean, you have--I missed part of the 
hearing here for another meeting, but what do you think of all 
this?
    I mean, you obviously are an activist in this area. What 
are your thoughts on this?
    Ms. TISHBY. Thank you, Congressman. I am glad you asked me 
about the role of media.
    So one of the biggest tropes about the Jewish community is 
that the Jews control the media. It is an anti-Semitic trope 
that is very old. And, clearly, it is not the case because, if 
the Jews would have controlled the media, we wouldn't have been 
in this situation in which media outlets around the world 
refuse to call terrorists terrorists, they call them militants. 
They refuse to even wait a second before they get a press 
release from the Gaza Ministry of Health and immediately blame 
Israel for shooting a rocket at a hospital and killing 500 
people. If you would think for a second, it takes more than a 
minute to count 500 bodies, right? Nobody thinks about that.
    And we shouldn't really be surprised, sadly. So there is, 
obviously, anti-Israel media bias that is extraordinary. I look 
at the other side, on their planning and organization, and I 
think of what they blame us. They blame us for having a cabal. 
They seem to be having a great cabal of their own, and the 
media is a huge part of it. But this is all starting from 
somewhere. When you train and educate generations of young 
Americans on college campuses to believe these blood libels, to 
believe these--this slander, these lies about Israel and about 
Zionism and about the Jewish people, then they go on to work at 
newsrooms, and they take Hamas press release at face value. We 
shouldn't be surprised that this is happening.
    We need to nip it in the bud, and nipping it in the bud 
meaning removing it from our children, removing it from our 
children entirely. Thank you.
    I want to take this opportunity for a second and bring into 
this room the 241 Israeli and other citizens, hostages--Romi, 
Gal, Tal, Emily--ranges from 9 months to 85 years old that are 
held for over a month-and-a-half in captivity with a terrorist 
organization, an unprecedented incidence in the history of the 
world. So I just wanted to bring them into the halls of this 
great chamber. And thank you. Thank you very much for having us 
all. Thank you.
    Mr. HERN. Thanks for your response.
    Thank you, I yield back.
    Mr. CAREY. Mrs. Miller is recognized for five minutes.
    Mrs. MILLER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I am still utterly horrified by the atrocities committed 
against our ally, Israel, by Hamas on October 7. There really 
are no words to describe what occurred. This depravity is being 
met fiercely, thank goodness. And I pray that the terrorist 
organization Hamas is destroyed so that they can never commit 
these kinds of attacks ever again.
    It is written in Genesis, ``The Lord had said to Abraham, 
Go from your country, your people, your father's household, to 
the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation, 
and I will bless you. I will make your name great, and you will 
be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you. And whoever 
curses you, I will curse. And all peoples on earth will be 
blessed through you.''
    I want to specifically thank Talia for joining us today and 
sharing her harrowing account of terror that was perpetrated by 
another student against the Jewish community at Cornell 
University.
    I can assure you, Talia, that they will be and should be 
brought to justice.
    A concerning trend that we have witnessed is the influence 
of foreign governments on tax-exempt college campuses. One such 
example is Qatari funding for Northwestern University. It is no 
coincidence that it now has a campus in the Gulf country and 
has become a pipeline for reporters for the Qatari state-owned 
media Al Jazeera and their youth-focused subsidiary, AJ+. It is 
widely reported that Northwestern's president said that the 
university will not be making an institutional statement on the 
attacks of Israel.
    Ironically, Northwestern is a frequent commenter on global 
events such as the invasion of Ukraine and numerous Supreme 
Court cases. This has led me to wonder if Qatar's funding for 
Northwestern plays a role in their non-statement on this 
geopolitical event.
    It is hard to miss that Qatar is actively housing Hamas 
leadership in luxury hotels while Palestinians suffer, or that 
AJ+ has been at the forefront of spreading pro-Hamas propaganda 
on social media sites, especially on TikTok, misinforming our 
students across the country and inspiring additional anti-
Semitism.
    The Department of Justice has determined that AJ+ must 
register under the Foreign Agent Registration Act, known as 
FARA, but they have failed to do so. The fact that they are 
influencing the thoughts of America's youth, without disclosing 
their funding, should be further investigated, and taxpayers 
should definitely not be subsidizing the universities that 
allow hatred to spread.
    Mr. Lehman, while I have highlighted Northwestern's 
response in particular today, they are not the only ones to 
disappoint in this important moment. How do you think we should 
look at Northwestern's and other schools' responses to Hamas 
attacks?
    Do you believe that their neutrality and inaction are a 
result of their financial ties to countries known to support 
terrorist organizations like Hamas?
    Mr. LEHMAN. Thank you, Congresswoman Miller. I would say 
the following.
    While at Hillel we can't know for sure how funding is or 
isn't impacting the administration, here is what we can say for 
sure. It was very disappointing to see Northwestern University 
not speak out, and that was joined by so many other 
universities who also chose not to speak out. As President Ben 
Sasse at University of Florida shared, ``This is not hard.'' So 
they missed that opportunity horribly.
    Beyond that, Northwestern actually is a textbook example of 
where students for Justice in Palestine has continued to poison 
the campus climate for Jewish students, including just in 
recent weeks publishing fake newspapers demonizing Israel and, 
again, alienating Jewish students.
    Our Hillel student leaders are working so hard, and our 
terrific executive director, Michael Simon, there to actually 
promote understanding. We have heard from many members. We need 
to build bridges. These are students, Jewish students who care 
deeply about Israel, but care about the harms, you know, 
directed at Palestinian civilians. They want to see justice, 
dignity, and safety for all, but they cannot find opportunities 
to build bridges when other groups literally--and you all 
should understand this--there are student groups on campus who 
have anti-normalization policies. They won't even sit down and 
talk to Jewish students at Northwestern and other campuses.
    So whatever you all are able to do to, number one, 
influence the universities in your districts would be terrific. 
Come visit us at our Hillels. You can talk to students, and you 
will actually be able to lift their spirits.
    And, relative to the authority that you do have, as some 
members have said, please continue to support the non-profit 
security grants. Please continue to drive accountability 
through title 6 or any other measures that you can. And please 
just continue to use your voices to speak out. We really 
appreciate it.
    Mrs. MILLER. And very briefly, Ms. Tishby, since you are a 
member of the media, what role should media personalities 
really play?
    And what is their real role? Are they supposed to report 
accurate information?
    Ms. TISHBY. Can you elaborate on which personalities, 
exactly? Media personalities, social media personality, all of 
them?
    Mrs. MILLER. All of them.
    Mr. CAREY. The----
    Ms. TISHBY. I will tell you what I can say.
    Mr. CAREY. The witness can finish, but the gentlewoman's 
time has expired.
    Ms. TISHBY. Okay.
    Mrs. MILLER. Okay.
    Ms. TISHBY. So I will do it quickly.
    Israel was a not-cool cause to align yourself with. For 
many, many years I was working--living and working in Hollywood 
and--as a producer, as an actress, as a writer. And I have 
tried to get people to vocally support Israel, and they would 
say, ``Oh, I love Israel.''
    ``But would you say it publicly, or would you tweet about 
it?''
    ``No.''
    So what I encourage people to do, people that have any kind 
of profile, is to acknowledge the difference between good and 
evil. Supporting the existence of safety and security of the 
state of Israel does not mean that you always agree with the 
Israeli Government's policies. That is fine. But Israel is the 
only country in the world that her existence is being 
questioned. That is something that we should not agree to hear 
anymore.
    But yes, I would like to hear from more----
    Mrs. MILLER. Thank you.
    Ms. TISHBY [continuing]. Personalities out there publicly. 
Thank you.
    Mr. CAREY. Ms. Sanchez is recognized for five minutes.
    Ms. SANCHEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really appreciate 
the opportunity for this committee to acknowledge and confront 
the reality of rising anti-Semitism and hate, especially on 
college campuses. And I want to thank each of our witnesses for 
sharing their stories and their perspectives today, because it 
takes a lot of courage to speak up.
    In the wake of Hamas's vicious terrorist attack against 
Israel on October 7, our communities are reporting a troubling 
uptick in reports of anti-Semitic harassment. And I think we 
are all united in the belief that anti-Semitism cannot be 
tolerated in any form. It has no place in our communities, 
especially on college campuses and in our nation's schools. 
Unaddressed, that kind of hatred threatens the very fabric of 
our nation.
    I want to start my questioning with Mr. Greenblatt--I want 
to thank you for your testimony outlining the significant spike 
in anti-Semitic incidents in the wake of the Hamas-Israel war. 
We have to confront hate early and aggressively, and the 
Federal Government urgently needs to support programs that 
combat anti-Semitism. Would you agree with that?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. I absolutely agree, Congresswoman.
    Ms. SANCHEZ. And you provided many policy recommendations, 
which include investing in the Department of Education's Office 
for Civil Rights, which investigates complaints that students 
have been subjected to ethnic or ancestral slurs, or to 
harassment based on their appearance, dress, or the way they 
speak in ways that are tied to ethnicity or ancestry. Is that 
correct?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. I mean, title 6 covers protecting students 
based on ethnicity or national origin. So, you have to show a 
pattern of discrimination, and the university not creating, 
again, a space where the student is able to learn and live 
freely.
    Ms. SANCHEZ. But the question being you recommend investing 
in the Department of----
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes, I do.
    Ms. SANCHEZ [continuing]. Education's Office for Civil 
Rights.
    The Office of Civil Rights is responsible for, as you have 
said, ensuring that schools provide all students, including 
students who are or are perceived to be Jewish, Israeli, 
Muslim, Arab, or Palestinian in a learning environment that is 
free from discrimination that is based on race, color, or 
national origin.
    Mr. Greenblatt, would slashing the funding for the Office 
of Civil Rights by 25 percent, as House Republicans have 
proposed, make it harder for school and university leaders to 
protect students and foster a safe and supportive learning 
environment?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Well, I appreciate the question. I am not 
familiar with the particular proposal you are suggesting.
    I would say that, as I mentioned before and as I will 
reinforce, the Office of Civil Rights, which is there for all 
students, deserves adequate funding so that it can deal with 
the large number of cases that it has.
    And I also believe that the office--you know, there may be 
things that we can do right now to help it. So, for example, I 
had a meeting with the attorney general last week. I 
recommended detailing lawyers from the Department of Justice 
over to Education. It wouldn't require any additional money, it 
could help them deal with the backlog of cases.
    I recommended IPAs. You know, you could put people in the 
Federal Government on short terms of service. It doesn't 
require any additional money, but you could do that without 
raising the head count.
    And finally, the Department of Education doesn't need to 
wait for cases to be brought to it. It could appoint, almost 
like a special prosecutor--that is not the right term, but 
someone to go out there and aggressively look at these cases. 
It doesn't require any additional money.
    Ms. SANCHEZ. I appreciate those recommendations, but my 
question was whether a 25 percent cut in the Office of Civil 
Rights would help or hinder the ability to investigate those 
kinds of incidences of harassment.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Clearly, adequate funding--so I would not 
recommend funding cuts at this time.
    Ms. SANCHEZ. Great. I also just want to point out that 
House Republicans have also proposed slashing the FBI's 
operating budget, eliminating hate crime grants, and 
eliminating the Community Relations Service, which is also 
known as America's peacemaker, for helping communities address 
conflict based on actual or perceived race, color, national 
origin, or religion.
    And I only raise those issues because, given what the 
witnesses have shared with us today, I think that we ought not 
to be talking about slashing funding for vital programs which 
can help root out these incidences of violence, or even prevent 
them before they escalate to incidents of violence. So instead 
of the proposed cuts to those critical programs, we should 
fully fund them or even plus-up funding where needed.
    Lastly, I just wanted to say, Ms. Dror, I really appreciate 
you being here today and sharing difficult and frightening 
experiences with us, from threats and harassment to disturbing 
graffiti that you have experienced on your college campus. And 
it is not hard to understand why students are scared. What 
would you suggest my colleagues and I should remember as we 
consider the different ways the Federal Government can help 
address hate and prevent violent attacks on our friends, our 
families, and our neighbors?
    Ms. DROR. Thank you so much. In terms of legal policy, I am 
not an expert yet, so I would defer to the experts on this 
panel.
    But I hope you remember that I am supposed to be in school 
right now. Like in this exact moment I am supposed to be in my 
constitutional politics class, which is funny. [Laughter.]
    Ms. SANCHEZ. You might get extra credit for actually being 
here. I don't know. [Laughter.]
    Ms. DROR. Let's hope. But Jewish students deserve to be 
able to go to their classes.
    Ms. SANCHEZ. I agree, and thank you so much for your 
testimony. [Applause.]
    Ms. SANCHEZ. I yield back.
    Mr. CAREY. Dr. Murphy is recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. MURPHY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for 
coming today. I know there have been some really heart-
wrenching stories, and I am sorry you are having to tell them, 
but that is, sadly enough, the world that we live in.
    I have worked since my tenure in Congress a lot on free 
speech. I have had free speech roundtables now--this will be 
the third year in a row next month. And it is just interesting 
now on campus how free speech is now flipped on its head. 
Because it used to be if--it was diversity in all things except 
opinion, and that is what has hit--that is what has popped the 
top off it now, because it is not diversity of opinion.
    And how anti-Semitism has just exploded in the country is 
beyond me. It is beyond me. It was never an issue when I was in 
college, never. And the horrific, murderous, barbaric attacks 
that occurred--and any college professor should be removed from 
their position immediately, any college president should be 
removed from his or her position immediately, any student 
should be expelled immediately. These are no different than 
inciting neo-Nazi, White supremacy, or anything else.
    So we have on one side of the stream where we are attacking 
the White supremacy neo-Nazis, but all of a sudden there is a 
difference and they are calling that free speech. That is not 
free speech. That is inciting violence and death on college 
campuses today. There is a marked, marked difference.
    Ms. Dror, you know, you gave a very compelling introductory 
talk, and I appreciate that a little bit. Let me ask you this. 
In your experience, do you feel that colleges and universities 
now have a double standard in regards to free speech?
    Ms. DROR. I believe it is within my free speech rights to 
put up a mezuzah on my door. That mezuzah has recently been had 
to----
    Mr. MURPHY. I am sorry. Would you mind repeating that?
    Ms. DROR. There is a Jewish scroll that Jewish people put 
on their doorposts.
    Mr. MURPHY. Right.
    Ms. DROR. I have one on my home. It is within my free 
speech rights to put one of those on my door.
    Mr. MURPHY. Right.
    Ms. DROR. That has had to be removed for my safety. How can 
colleges say that endorsing terrorism is free speech when it--
--
    Mr. MURPHY. No, they are not----
    Ms. DROR [continuing]. Directly hinders my ability to 
express my religious free speech?
    Mr. MURPHY. Yes, I wear--I have a cross in my office, and 
you don't know how many times, at least in this institution, 
they have attacked the cross. That is the cross on which this 
nation was built. In God we Trust. Christian, Judeo-Christian, 
it was a foundation on which this nation was built. You may not 
like it, but that is what happened.
    [Slide]
    Mr. MURPHY. Ms. Tishby, wow, you have talked about this 
several times today. I really would love to understand. I have 
been to Israel twice. When you go into the term ``From the 
river to the sea, Palestine will be free,'' what does that mean 
when somebody is Jewish? What happens when they hear those 
words?
    Ms. TISHBY. Thank you so much, and I love that you have 
visual aids.
    Mr. MURPHY. They just magically appear.
    Ms. TISHBY. First of all, let's just--I love it. This is 
fabulous. Let's just acknowledge that the size of Israel is the 
size of the State of New Jersey. So there are 21 Arab countries 
in the region, 1 Jewish state. And, for some reason, Israel is 
the big bad wolf. You can barely find it on the map. It is a 
tiny piece of land.
    The Jordan River, over there to the east, and the 
Mediterranean Sea, when people say, ``From the river to the 
sea, Palestine will be free,'' they mean that piece of land 
completely clean. So ethnically cleansing the Jews from their 
ancestral land.
    Now, why is that anti-Semitic?
    Mr. MURPHY. You have about 30 seconds. I am trying to stay 
on time.
    Ms. TISHBY. I am sorry?
    Mr. MURPHY. I have got--we have got about 30 seconds, so I 
am trying----
    Ms. TISHBY. Why is this anti-Semitic? It is anti-Semitic 
because if you don't allow only the Jewish people to have a 
state, if you are anti-Zionist, you are saying, ``I am not 
anti-Semitic, I am just an anti-Zionist,'' well then, which 
other country would you like to dismantle? Usually the 
question--the answer to that is none, just Israel.
    Mr. MURPHY. Right.
    Ms. TISHBY. So people that are obsessing over Israel are 
anti-Semitic, and that means cleansing that particular piece of 
land, which is the Jewish people's ancestral land.
    Mr. MURPHY. It would be very similar, but not nearly as 
commentary as to say get everything from the Atlantic to 
Pacific, south of Canada, north of Mexico.
    Ms. TISHBY. Yes, America will be free.
    Mr. MURPHY. Well, thank you.
    I will say this when we are talking about funding. I don't 
mean this to be partisan, but the Democrat--my Democratic 
colleagues love to just say more and more and more funding. How 
about we cut the funding of these colleges and universities, 
and divert the funding that they already have, that they--I 
have been on a college board--and see an explosion every year 
of program after program after program. How about we cut and 
reuse the money? Because otherwise, it becomes a nuclear arms 
race. Who can scream for more money year after year?
    So go to these college professors, board of trustees, and 
all--to all these folks and say, ``You are losing your money,'' 
which I think the vast majority should anyway, ``if you don't 
move your funds from one thing to another,'' actually put your 
money where your mouth is when you talk about true diversity 
and inclusivity.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will yield back.
    Mr. CAREY. Mr. Kustoff is now recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. KUSTOFF. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the 
witnesses, all of you, for appearing today. I think we have all 
learned a lot.
    If I could, Dr. Schanzer, with you, if I could get you for 
a moment to put on your former Department of Treasury hat, 
yesterday my colleague and I, Congressman Brad Schneider at the 
other end, introduced a bipartisan piece of legislation--the 
bill number is H.R. 6408--it would authorize the Department of 
Treasury to revoke the tax-exempt status of any non-profit 
deemed to be providing material support or resources to a 
terrorist group or to--a terrorist group like Hamas, or any 
other terrorist group. You were back in your role at Treasury. 
Can you talk about the benefit that that legislation could 
provide if it, in fact, were enacted by Congress?
    Mr. SCHANZER. Certainly, Congressman, and thank you for the 
question. I did see H.R. 6408, and I think it is a worthwhile 
initiative.
    I think that there was a time, though, where Treasury used 
to track domestic groups and actually sanction them. It has 
stopped doing that, so we don't do that anymore. We only target 
external groups, foreign terrorist organizations, foreign 
charities, foreign individuals. That is what the Treasury does 
now.
    So this is probably something that the Department of 
Justice and the FBI would be able to wield. So, if Treasury 
identifies one of those, and they are identified pursuant to 
this proposed law, then it would be probably something that the 
Department of Justice and FBI would follow up on. But I do see 
this as a very valuable tool.
    Mr. KUSTOFF. A valuable tool to revoke the tax-exempt 
status of these organizations.
    Mr. SCHANZER. Correct, as a first step. And then I would 
say after that you would want to have a deeper investigation to 
find out whether there is criminal activity, because that is 
certainly what is implied in the language of your proposal.
    Mr. KUSTOFF. You talked about American Muslims for 
Palestine. What about the Islamic Relief Worldwide, the IRW, 
are you familiar with them?
    Mr. SCHANZER. I am not as familiar. The reason why I have 
tracked AMP is because I used to track all the other groups 
that came before it. I could very easily see their lineage. I 
am not tracking all these other groups full-time.
    Mr. KUSTOFF. Okay, fair enough. Thank you very much.
    Mr. GREENBLATT, thank you for appearing today. Does TikTok 
contribute to anti-Semitism?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. There is no question that social media 
broadly is a super-spreader of anti-Semitism and hate. TikTok 
has had--as well reported, a considerable amount of 
disinformation being spread on the platform. We have seen the 
Pro-Hamas hashtags enjoy far greater popularity than the pro-
Israel content. Some of that, I think, could be attributed to 
the volume that is there. I mean, it is a massive platform with 
billions of users.
    This body, this committee, should be looking at social 
media and looking at what you can do to rein in the hate that 
is there, for sure.
    Mr. KUSTOFF. And there has been talk about the other media 
organizations, non-social media.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes.
    Mr. KUSTOFF. I am talking about traditional. Do you have an 
opinion? Because people watch television, right?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Right.
    Mr. KUSTOFF. Can you talk about the evenness or the 
unevenness of how events have been covered since October 7?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes, I mean, it is fairly astonishing. It 
is like we are all--it is like Al Jazeera has captured our 
networks.
    I mean, just so we are clear--and Noa alluded to this 
earlier--you are not a fighter if you go in and decapitate a 
baby, you are a murderer. You are not a militant if you go in 
and execute the elderly, you are a killer.
    And you know, I have had conversations with the leadership 
of the AP, The New York Times, The Washington Post, let alone 
the networks. And it is beyond my understanding and 
comprehension how these organizations can be confused about the 
moral standing of these murderers. We didn't call the people 
who took out the Twin Towers fighters. We called them 
terrorists because that is what they were. And we didn't call 
the people who butchered babies in Syria fighters because they 
were terrorists, and that is what they were. And I don't 
understand why there is any moral confusion about this here and 
now.
    Mr. KUSTOFF. Thank you, Mr. Greenblatt.
    Ms. Tishby, very quickly, as my time is expiring, you--
prophetically, maybe--wrote a column in Variety several weeks 
before October 7. I want to read you a quote now. Here is my--
ask you a question. You are--what you wrote, ``Anti-Zionism is 
the new, hip, and socially acceptable thing to do as we can see 
on social networks such as TikTok, which exploded into frenzied 
criticisms of Israel, sometimes even in dance routines, during 
the May 21 Gaza conflict.'' I think you wrote this, again, just 
a few weeks before October 7.
    Can you compare that quote a few weeks before October 7 and 
now?
    Ms. TISHBY. Well, now it just became a whole lot more 
extreme and a whole lot more spread out.
    We just found out that X, formerly known as Twitter, by--
did not remove 98 percent of reported anti-Semitic hate speech 
since October 7. It only got worse.
    I called it in my book, this hip, new social justice cause 
because hating Israel became the norm, and that norm needs to 
be turned around. As Jonathan was saying, social media is a 
super-spreader. We live in a terrifying world in which, if 
Hitler had TikTok, we would be seeing another reality.
    This is what we are dealing with right now, and for some it 
is very unfortunate that Israel is patient zero when it comes 
to misinformation and fake news, just like it was in the days 
of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. We are seeing this 
manifest and change, and this is where we are at today. Anti-
Semitism is a shape-shifting conspiracy theory, and it has 
shifted into what we are seeing today, which is anti-Israel and 
anti-Zionism.
    Mr. CAREY. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Ms. Sewell is recognized for five minutes.
    Ms. SEWELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank 
all of our witnesses here today for sharing your personal 
experiences and your professional insight.
    We are five weeks removed from Hamas's horrific terrorist 
attacks resulting in the deaths of thousands, killers leaving 
Israeli and Palestinians caught in the crosshairs of war. The 
aftermath of this conflict is not contained within the active 
war zone. The effects of the conflict have made their way to 
the United States in both anti-Semitic and Islamophobic acts.
    And, to be clear--we must be very clear--we cannot allow 
anti-Semitism or Islamophobic or any form of hate to grow 
anywhere, but especially here in America and especially on our 
college and university campuses.
    We are, unfortunately, witnessing home-grown hatred, and we 
have in this nation, unfortunately, seen this before. One need 
look only further [sic] than my Alabama congressional district 
to witness the country's centuries-long history of hatred. It 
was this hatred that culminated in the spilling of blood on the 
Edmund Pettus Bridge, including that blood of our former 
colleague, the great late John Lewis. The brave foot soldiers 
that day were advocating for the fundamental constitutional 
right of access to the ballot box and freedom of speech.
    While the battle fought that day may have been or appeared 
to be distant, old battles have indeed become new again. And 
the modern battleground is not a bridge, but college and 
university campuses. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was shaped by 
the countless men and women, many so unknown, from my Alabama's 
7th congressional district who experienced discrimination 
during the height of the Jim Crow South.
    Now, we know that colleges and universities have a legal 
obligation under title 6 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to 
provide all students, including students who are or are 
perceived to be Jewish or Israeli, a school environment that is 
free of discrimination based on race, on color, or national 
origin.
    I wanted to ask you, Mr. Greenblatt, if you could talk 
about what colleges and universities must do to address this 
anti-Semitism so that they don't lose their federal funding 
under title 6.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Well, I am glad you asked the question, 
Congresswoman Sewell. So, thank you.
    You know, Congresswoman, I would say, number one, like you 
said, the universities have a legal obligation to protect all 
of their students, and their Jewish students are being targeted 
right now. But I must say we are not going to wait, because so 
many of these university presidents are cowardly and feckless.
    So I am proud to share that Mr. Lehman and I, through 
Hillel and ADL, along with another group called the Brandeis 
Center, have launched a legal help line last week called Call 
the Campus, an anti-Semitism legal line, to make it easy for 
students to submit cases.
    We have already had over 150 cases submitted in one week. 
We have trained over 100 lawyers, in part thanks to the help of 
a law firm Gibson Dunn & Crutcher. And, if we do our job right, 
we will get up to 1,000 lawyers. So you better believe we are 
not going to wait for these universities to finally show up. We 
are going to show them, and we are going to bring the cases to 
them.
    And I think, you know, I appreciate the conversation about 
the Qatari money. You know, we talk about dark money in 
politics. This is dark charity, and dark charities should have 
no place in our country. And so we should again stop the flow 
of dark charity, and we should stop the flow of Federal funds 
if these university presidents don't finally do their jobs.
    Ms. SEWELL. So can you tell students who may be listening 
what ADL resources are available to them?
    I mean, you just said being able to file cases.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes.
    Ms. SEWELL. Can they find on your website--where can people 
go----
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Well, they can text----
    Ms. SEWELL [continued]. To really find those resources to 
help them?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes, they can text ``call help'' to 51555 
to report incidents. ``Call help'' to 51555.
    Number two, they can go to ADL.org. Through our deep 
partnership with Hillel International, we provide training to 
students so they understand how to deal with the anti-Semitism 
and anti-Zionism when they are confronted with it, 
Congresswoman.
    So I think, between ADL--you can find our stuff at 
ADL.org--and all the amazing resources of Hillel, there is a 
lot of stuff that students can use.
    Ms. SEWELL. We must stop hatred, period----
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Thank you, agreed.
    Ms. SEWELL [continued]. In this country.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Hear, hear.
    Ms. SEWELL. Thank you.
    Mr. CAREY. The chair would like to remind members and also 
the witnesses that--to keep your remarks within the five-minute 
time period. That way all of the members will have time to ask 
questions.
    The chair now recognizes Mr. Fitzpatrick for five minutes.
    Mr. FITZPATRICK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
being here today.
    I represent the Philadelphia region, Bucks County, 
Montgomery County in southeastern Pennsylvania. I was 
personally horrified in our own example in our backyard to see 
violent extremist activity, specifically at the University of 
Pennsylvania. A student proclaimed during a protest in 
Philadelphia that October 7 attacks by Hamas made her feel 
empowered and happy, and she later stole an Israeli flag for 
all the world to see. For someone to feel empowered and happy 
as innocent children are kidnaped and murdered in cold blood is 
the most unimaginable thing anyone could imagine in a free 
society.
    Dr. Schanzer, thank you for being here, sir. You have been 
observing an uptick in violence on college campuses linked to 
Hamas propaganda for quite some time now. Beyond this example, 
can you provide this committee for the record--because we want 
to get a lot of this on the record today--other examples that 
you have witnessed of violent rhetoric being spread to students 
since the war began and how Hamas propaganda has been funneled 
down to groups on campuses throughout----
    Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you, Congressman Fitzpatrick, and thank 
you for representing my hometown of Philadelphia. Go, Birds.
    Look, Penn is probably the worst campus that I have seen 
during all of this. And this takes nothing away from what we 
have seen in Cornell. I will go through just a couple of the 
examples of what we have seen, the kinds of rhetoric and the 
threats that have been taking place on this campus. It is 
embarrassing to me, as a son of Philadelphia and as a Jew, to 
see this happening. It is unbelievable that it is happening in 
America, for that matter.
    So you have a speaker at Penn, Against the Occupation, a 
rally praising Hamas for a job well done on 10/7. We have,--at 
Penn's AEPi house, someone scribbled the message, ``Jews are 
Nazis.'' The Hillel was broken into. The Chabad was vandalized. 
A swastika was drawn on an academic building. We are watching 
protests where they are calling for Palestine from the river to 
the sea. This is calling for the destruction of the state of 
Israel. They are calling for an intifada, a violent uprising. 
There is a vigil and a walkout to honor the Palestinian 
martyrs, those that are killed fighting against Israel. And 
then finally, a faculty senate statement published that was 
really, I think--the end message was that the university should 
not cave to Jewish donors who are demanding change.
    This is unbelievable, that it is taking place at Penn. It 
is unbelievable that it is taking place in America, and it is 
just a microcosm of what we are watching across the country.
    Mr. FITZPATRICK. Thank you, Doctor.
    Mr. Dror, moving to social media, obviously there has been 
a rise in anti-Semitic language on social media platforms, 
TikTok probably being the biggest offender, although not the 
only one by any stretch, which has been used as a tool for 
Hamas--a wholly-owned subsidiary of the CCP, by the way. If you 
could, talk to me about what you have seen at your university. 
What are--where are these young people--it is not just dance 
videos, right? They are getting--they are now getting their 
news from TikTok and some of these other social platforms, 
which is wholly controlled by a chief adversary of the United 
States and Israel.
    So talk to me about the social media impact here that--
specifically, the impact it is having on college campuses.
    Ms. DROR. Yes, absolutely. This is actually really funny, 
because I deleted my TikTok three days ago. I was always a huge 
user of it, and there was a point where I deleted it and then 
redownloaded it, and it changed my whole algorithm. Like, it 
refines an algorithm for you based on the type of videos you 
enjoy watching. And so the ones that I didn't enjoy watching, I 
would filter out. And I got funny TikToks for a while, and then 
I deleted it, redownloaded it. And every single video was 
essentially glorifying the brutal massacre of October 7.
    Unfortunately, you are right. This is the news source that 
students turn to. This is what college students are looking at 
in between their classes when they are bored, and they are 
seeing glorification of terrorism all over their social media. 
And then we are seeing their professors glorify terrorism and 
reinforce those ideas.
    And so, unfortunately, social media is absolutely 
contributing to the need for a recalibration of the moral 
compasses of students and professors everywhere.
    Mr. FITZPATRICK. Well, you will be pleased to hear that, in 
my role in the House Intelligence Committee, we will be 
subpoenaing the algorithm of TikTok to get answers to a lot of 
these questions.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH [presiding]. Ms. Chu is recognized.
    Ms. CHU. First, I want to say thank you to our witnesses 
for being here today and bravely sharing your experiences. No 
one should be targeted or made to feel unsafe because of who 
they are. There is no room for hate and anti-Semitism in this 
country or anywhere.
    I just met with the hostage families two hours ago, and I 
heard from the family of Abigail Idan, only three years old 
when the Hamas attacked her father, fell on top of her to 
protect her but was murdered, and then she was kidnaped. These 
horrific stories are just unbelievable.
    And then there is what is happening in my State of 
California, which is reflective of what is happening in the 
United States. At UCLA earlier this month, students were 
recorded chanting horrific anti-Semitic language through a 
megaphone. We heard reports about Jewish students at UC 
Berkeley, UC Davis, and San Jose State being physically 
attacked, and Jewish students at UC San Diego who needed a 
police escort to safely leave a student meeting.
    These and other horrific incidents on college campuses 
across the country have impacted the climate of schools and are 
threatening Jewish students' safety on their own campuses. In 
fact, just the other day in my own district the Hillel at the 
Claremont Colleges sent an email to its members with 
recommendations on how to be safe on campus, including 
suggesting in some cases it may be safest for students to stay 
inside and skip classes. I thank Hillel for working to keep 
students safe, but no person anywhere should be forced to stay 
home out of fear of being attacked because of who they are. We 
cannot tolerate these anti-Semitic incidents.
    And Islamophobic incidents also, as like the unconscionable 
murder of the six-year-old Palestinian-American boy last month, 
or any instance of race-based hatred and discrimination.
    And I can relate to this because for the last three years 
there have been anti-Asian hate crimes and incidents, and they 
included slander, insults, assaults, and killings. And there 
were 11,500 of them because of Asians being blamed for COVID-
19.
    So, the first person I must thank is Jonathan Greenblatt 
and ADL because, as these were starting to happen, you actually 
were the first organization to speak up and offer your support 
amid a rise in anti-Asian hate and bigotry during the pandemic. 
And it meant so much to our communities and helped us make real 
progress toward protecting vulnerable communities across the 
United States from hate crimes. And that is what led us to work 
hard to pass the COVID-19 Hate Crimes Act, which included my 
bill, the No Hate Act, and to have a major piece of hate crime 
legislation in 30 years to improve the ability for victims to 
be able to report, and for law enforcement to be able to also 
more actively prosecute and also report these hate crimes.
    Now, as a result of this law--well, for one thing, it 
created a new program to support state-based hotlines for 
victims to report crimes. But so far, only two states, 
California and Illinois, have established these systems.
    And then it actually also provided money to train every law 
enforcement agency in this country to report hate crimes 
through the National Incident-Based Reporting System, or NIBRS.
    But we still have a ways to go. There are 87 jurisdictions 
that still have not implemented this system. And without full 
participation in these new programs, we will not have a full 
understanding of hate crimes across this country and our 
response to incidents like this anti-Semitism that is happening 
on campuses will be incomplete.
    So, Mr. Greenblatt, as I discussed, the COVID-19 Hate 
Crimes Act and the No Hate Act was born out of an alarming rise 
in anti-Asian hate crimes during the height of the COVID-19 
pandemic. And it will help us better address all hate crimes, 
including anti-Semitic incidents. Can you talk about why it is 
important for all state and local jurisdictions to fully 
participate in these programs by reporting crimes to the NIBRS 
database and setting up these hate crime-reporting hotlines in 
order to allow the Federal Government to have a comprehensive 
response to rising anti-Semitism and all forms of hate?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes. So, Congresswoman, thank you for the 
question. Thank you for your leadership on the No Hate Act. ADL 
was proud to work with you and with all members of the Asian-
American, the AAPI Caucus, on that important piece of 
legislation.
    Look, data drives policy. And the fact of the matter is 85-
some-odd percent of municipalities do not report any hate 
crimes, or affirmatively report zero every year. And bad data 
in means bad policy out. So this needs to change.
    So yes, I mean, I think Director Wray was testifying on the 
Hill today. Pushing the FBI and pushing law enforcement 
agencies to make sure they are reporting hate crimes helps all 
of us. And so more of it needs to happen so we have an accurate 
picture of the situation on the ground and, therefore, can 
build the right policies and programs in response to that.
    Ms. CHU. Thank you.
    Chairman SMITH. Ms. Tenney is recognized.
    Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I just want to say 
thanks to the witnesses.
    Every one of you has been phenomenal in various ways. I got 
about eight pages of questions I would like to ask, but I would 
like to first state a few things and--just to talk about the 
shameful state of anti-Semitism that has flourished in our 
nation's universities, including in my own backyard.
    After the horrific attacks on Israel by Hamas on October 7, 
we have witnessed at numerous universities, including some in 
my own state of New York--thank you to Ms. Dror for being 
here--that have allowed hate-filled anti-Semitic demonstrations 
in support of terrorist groups like Hamas to circulate across 
the campus.
    Demonstrators outside of the Maxwell School at Syracuse 
University chanted, ``From the river to the sea, Palestine will 
be free,'' an anti-Semitic rallying cry long used by terrorist 
groups to call for the violent destruction of the state of 
Israel and the Jewish people, as Ms. Tishby so accurately 
described today from a personal viewpoint.
    The same was witnessed at the University of Rochester, 
which I surround with my sprawling district in upstate New 
York, with a group known as Students for Justice in Palestine, 
which we have discussed a lot today, hosting increasingly 
vitriolic and menacing demonstrations. The university has done 
little or nothing to condemn these hate-filled actions, and 
students, especially Jewish students, are rightfully fearing 
for their own safety.
    In the wake of the Hamas attack--and I want to reference 
Ms. Dror here, and thank you so much for your courage to be out 
and be standing up early in this incident--and I don't think 
that we can state this enough--a professor at Cornell 
University, Russell Rickford--we should say his name--referred 
to the slaughter of Israeli civilians by Hamas as energizing 
and exhilarating--you have heard that from a number of Members 
of Congress today--while speaking at a pro-Palestine protest on 
Cornell's campus.
    After these disgraceful comments, I wrote a letter to the 
Cornell University president demanding Professor Rickford's 
immediate resignation or removal. But to my knowledge, he has 
only been placed on leave from the university. But I consider 
that step one.
    And I am so grateful for your continued advocacy, Ms. Dror, 
and your willingness to proudly talk about your own religious 
beliefs and something that is--I think we need to talk about 
this, and I think everybody sort of touched on it--Mr. 
Greenblatt, as well.
    It was part of a university board. I went to Colgate 
University. My dad is a graduate of Cornell Law School. My 
brother went to Syracuse. We have all been educated in upstate 
New York, which has a wonderful tradition of secondary schools. 
But I remember something called the Chicago Principles about 
First Amendment principles. And many colleges and universities 
would not adopt them. It was a protocol for free speech, but 
there were certain exemptions in that. And some of those were 
incitement, defamation, threats, and others to students. But 
this would give students freedom to express their religious and 
other views, but also the protection that the First Amendment 
actually affords all of us to be able to speak freely and why 
we revere this country.
    But I am concerned that--and I know that everybody has put 
out all these wonderful--I know that Ms. Tishby put out three 
things that we could do kick these hate groups off campus, 
evidence linking state police, FBI. How can they enjoy the warm 
welcome of Congress? Excellent question. We ask that ourselves 
every day.
    And also, Mr. Greenblatt, you laid out four things. And one 
of the things that--number one was to pass legislation to 
implement a national strategy. Well, some of our colleagues 
have actually done that today. But how can we get something 
like the Chicago Principles and protocol in place at 
universities so that we do respect free speech? It is very 
important.
    I am the mother of a Marine. There was--the Westboro 
Baptist Church used to go and celebrate the death of our 
honorably serving service members. That is hate speech, in a 
way, but it is also First Amendment protected. How do we do 
this in such a way that we don't incite violence, that we 
protect our students? What are the strategies?
    And I would love to ask, if I can--I am kind of running out 
of time--if you can answer quickly, what is your first--how do 
we do this in, like, maybe a sentence or two?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Who is the question directed to?
    Ms. TENNEY. First Mr. Greenblatt, because you suggested 
let's pass a national strategy. Would the Chicago Principles 
help?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. They would. I mean, again, I think hate 
speech is the price of free speech. Things we detest are things 
we have to be willing to hear. But there is something 
profoundly wrong with creating spaces in which the students 
have to shelter in their dorms for being--fear of harassment. 
This isn't some game like Wordle or something like that. This 
is real life, and there are real consequences. Chicago 
Principles, forcing all schools to adopt them, would help 
enormously.
    Ms. TENNEY. Thank you.
    I will just say, Mr. Lehman, could you just--I know you 
have been working on this issue. Could you--what is your 
strategy for this? How can we do something?
    Mr. LEHMAN. Yes, it is a great question. And I will first 
point out that at Syracuse we actually had the demonization of 
Jewish organizations like Hillel, like the Greek organizations 
claiming that they are genocidal. This is where we are--and 
part of the reason we are in such a rut.
    In terms of quickly pointing out strategy, we have a campus 
climate initiative. This, again, doesn't need to be that hard. 
If universities would hard-code into their own policies that 
brighter line around how we protect free speech, we need it, we 
want it on campus, but be super clear, number one, around where 
that line is being breached in terms of incitement, in terms of 
harassment. And title 6 already gets us a good part of the way 
there. Is there this pervasive, hostile, and discriminatory 
environment? So let's, you know, fund to make sure we can 
enforce title 6, let's create the bright lines.
    And then, I think if we have that basis, let's discipline. 
Because that is the other thing we don't see, which is 
university leaders actually enforce the rules that are already 
in place.
    Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, I respect that, I just think the 
need to balance--that we feel we need to balance virulent anti-
Semitism with the counter of Islamophobia. What happened on 
these college campuses is not Islamophobia. This is direct, 
virulent anti-Semitism. And, as you say, full stop, Mr. 
Schanzer.
    I just want to say thank you all. You have been terrific 
and insightful, and I hope that everyone out there is watching 
in the listening audience of Congress.
    Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you for that last point. It is very 
important. Anti-Semitism is a problem, full stop.
    Chairman SMITH. We need to--answer that quickly, and we 
will move on.
    Mrs. Fischbach.
    Mrs. FISCHBACH. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank 
you to all of our witnesses.
    It has--you know, we have been here a little while, and you 
have been more than gracious to answer questions. And so I am 
not going to take too much time. But I will tell you we are 
committed to helping.
    As a college student, there is nothing--you should not be 
having to deal with and face this on college campuses. Parents 
send their kids to college thinking they are going to be safe. 
And so I just--my heart goes out to you and to your family. And 
I think the most striking thing that you said was when you 
talked about my family's life savings is going to that college. 
And so please understand we will do what we can to help.
    And so that was--and Ms. Tenney kind of touched on it, and 
so I kind of wanted to just maybe open it up. And I know that 
Mr. Greenblatt wanted to, but what is the--what is one thing, 
maybe, since we are late and I don't want to keep you any 
longer than you have to, but the one thing that we can do?
    And Mr. Lehman, you mentioned some.
    But Mr. Greenblatt, you wanted to add to that, I thought, 
when you were cut off.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Well, look, I think anti-Semitism needs to 
be called out full stop, just like we call out racism and don't 
say--and you also need to tackle such and such. Yes, there are 
lots of problems, but we are here to talk about anti-Semitism, 
and let's stay focused on the problem.
    So what is one thing to do? Stop the flow of dark charity, 
like Dr. Schanzer talked about.
    Mrs. FISCHBACH. Yes. And Ms. Tishby?
    Ms. TISHBY. There is another thing that all college 
campuses should do, and that is adopt IRA.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Hear, hear.
    Ms. TISHBY. We have----
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Hear, hear.
    Ms. TISBHY [continuing]. An international Holocaust 
Remembrance Alliance. We have the working definition of what 
anti-Semitism is because a lot of people don't actually know 
what it means. They don't know what anti-Semitism is. They 
don't understand that it is not just racism, it is not just 
looking down at someone. It is also conspiratorially looking up 
at someone.
    So, if you say the Jews control the money, the Jews control 
the power, the Jews control the media, that is anti-Semitic, 
and that is not a compliment. When the Jewish community hears 
that, we get freaked out because we know what is coming right 
after that. We have heard this for generations.
    Adopt IRA. Every college should adopt IRA. We are going to 
have a much easier time identifying anti-Semitism and fighting 
against it.
    Mrs. FISCHBACH. Well, thank you very much.
    And does anybody else have anything they want to add? I 
know you are tired. I know.
    Ms. TISHBY. We can do this for hours. [Laughter.]
    Mrs. FISCHBACH. Well, I appreciate that. I appreciate the 
energy.
    Mr. Lehman.
    Mr. LEHMAN. Yes, if I might. I mean, again, we will go back 
to title 6 enforcement because I have spoken to enough 
university leaders to know that, you know, accountability 
matters. And a lot of people have spoken about taking away 
Federal funds. That is the consequence of title 6 violations. 
So I would go back to that.
    And I would also say something that we have got to get to 
on the other side of this, which is education, promoting 
dialogue across difference. It is not something Congress can 
enforce, but what you can do is deal with taking the hate away 
from these focused, funded groups that are poisoning campus. 
Once we remove that, we actually create the space for students 
to start learning from one another, understanding one another. 
And that is what we need, ultimately, to get to where we have 
the healthy environment we are all looking for.
    Mrs. FISCHBACH. And, Doctor, you had something to add?
    Mr. SCHANZER. Yes. Look, what I would say here is we need 
to focus on the organizations that embrace the ideology of 
Hamas. Hamas is a litmus test. If you are an American that are 
embraced--if you are embracing the ideology of Hamas, the 
actions of Hamas, if you are lionizing the leaders of Hamas, 
you are anti-Semitic. This is an organization that is dedicated 
to the destruction of the Jewish state and nothing else.
    And we see far too many organizations out there talking 
about Hamas as freedom fighters, or how they are some kind of a 
legitimate organization operating in Gaza. None of the above. 
They are a violent terrorist organization that is dedicated to 
the destruction of the only Jewish state on the map.
    Mr. LEHMAN. If I may, one other quick thing that I don't 
think has been said enough here, which is Congress has shown 
enormous leadership, as has this administration, in supporting 
the legitimate right of Israel to defend itself, in continuing 
to show a moral compass in terms of condemning Hamas for its 
atrocious and unbelievable acts of terrorism. And that 
leadership is important to balance what is, unfortunately, not 
being said by too many university leaders, and literally the 
opposite that they are sometimes hearing in classrooms.
    So I applaud all of you for what you are doing in that 
regard.
    Mrs. FISCHBACH. And I will wrap up by just saying again 
thank you.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Thank you.
    Mrs. FISCHBACH. Thank you all for being here. Thank you for 
being so strong. And God bless.
    And with that, I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Ms. Van Duyne.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank 
you to our witnesses--I know you have already been here for 
hours--but for taking the time to be here with us today. And it 
is a shame that we actually have to hold a hearing on this 
topic at all.
    Condemning anti-Semitism and the acts of evil committed by 
Hamas, including the slaughter of women, children, and elderly 
should be easy. But sadly, we have seen so many hesitant or 
outright refuse to do so. And worse, we have seen instances 
where Hamas's disgusting atrocities are cheered. And those who 
do so should be ashamed.
    You refer to them as killers. I would refer to them as 
savages, as barbarians, as butchers, and as animals. We should 
be able to say that.
    I am thankful to have seen most of my colleagues stand 
together in our support for Israel in the face of these 
horrific attacks. But since Hamas began its barbaric assault on 
Israel on October 7, we have seen nearly a 400 percent rise in 
incidents of anti-Semitism across the U.S., compared to last 
year, and the majority of those have been on college campuses.
    And, Ms. Dror, I applaud you for being here today. As a 
fellow Cornellian, I graduated at a time--it was the best four 
years of my life. I loved that university, and it was a liberal 
university at that point, but never did I ever walk on that 
quad and not feel safe. I am embarrassed, what is going on in 
that campus today. I cannot believe how much it has changed. 
And I think to myself, why? Why has it changed in those--I am 
not even going to say how many years, you are quite a few years 
younger than I am.
    But I think, what has happened? You know, they have 
embraced these diversity and equity and inclusion programs. 
That has been heralded. But what is really going on in these 
campuses? What is really being taught at these campuses? And 
why are we having students who come out and are willing to 
defend these barbarians, these savages, these horrific acts? 
How is that possible? This is what they are learning.
    And then you have got professors like our history 
professor, Russell Rickford, and you recognize this is why, 
because this is what they are teaching on our college campuses 
today. This is exactly what they are teaching us: to hate, to 
be exhilarated with these savage acts, to defend people who are 
beheading children. This is what they are teaching our 
students. And at the same time, they are getting Federal 
taxpayer dollars to do it. Why are we putting up with that? Why 
are we allowing that? You know, having a 501(c) organization 
and, therefore--you are expected to abide by these ethical 
standards that are supposed to promote the public good.
    When I am looking at what is happening to you, Ms. Dror, 
and I am looking at what is happening to students across the 
country, where they are being harassed, where they are having 
to lock themselves in to not be harmed by other students, that 
is not for the public good. When I am seeing professors that 
are acting like that and not being immediately fired, that is 
not for the public good. What year are you?
    Ms. DROR. I am a junior, but I am graduating this year.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. So you are trying to get out of there as 
fast as you can.
    Ms. DROR. Oh, yes. [Laughter.]
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. That is--that is a shame. I mean, that is a 
shame that you are having to do that. Were you not as surprised 
as I was when they did not immediately fire Professor Russell 
Rickford?
    Ms. DROR. Unfortunately, I wasn't really surprised. I mean, 
there are a lot of competing interests. We have spoken about 
money from Qatar. Cornell gets $1.8 billion from Qatar. We have 
a medical school there. There are a lot of competing interests, 
which I am excited to have heard people express support to 
investigate.
    I have been very disappointed, and I really enjoyed my time 
at Cornell prior to the October 7 attacks and sitting in my 
classes realizing that my peers want my family dead.
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. And I can't believe I am going to say this. 
But parents, for a university that I revered so much, parents, 
don't send your kids to colleges, to universities that are 
going to teach them this hate. Businesses, don't hire students 
that promote this kind of behavior. And alumni like me, stop 
sending your money to institutions that hate and are going to 
teach students to hate America and everything we stand for, and 
our partners, our advocates, our strongest allies like Israel.
    Ms. DROR. There is just one thing I want to say to that. I 
see, like, the school that I attended, I attended a Jewish high 
school. They have, like, lists, I have heard, right now of 
schools that you shouldn't be attending because there are, 
like, high anti-Semitism rates. So it is a high-risk school, so 
you shouldn't go. You are seeing elite schools on that list. 
You are seeing Cornell, you are seeing Penn, you are seeing 
Harvard.
    But what that is getting to is no Jewish students being 
able to go to elite universities where they get the opportunity 
to then go into--I mean, why do you go to an elite university? 
Because you want to get a good job, because you want to make 
good connections. Why are Jewish students not afforded that 
right, if their tuition dollars are the same?
    Ms. VAN DUYNE. And I am sorry, my time has expired, but 
thank you very much for being here today. Thank you for all of 
you.
    And I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Ms. Moore.
    Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me 
thank the witnesses for their patience and indulgence.
    I just want to say to you, Ms. Talia, don't let anybody 
steal your joy, girl. You enjoy your last year at Cornell. Your 
parents' money paid for that education. And it sounds to me 
like you are a very intelligent, learned person, and you could 
teach somebody something and be an example.
    And I do think that we do have laws. I am going to make 
inquiries about title 6 and what the enforcement mechanisms are 
for that. But I do have a question, and perhaps it is not for 
you, Talia. Perhaps it is for Mr.--Dr. Schanzer.
    These demonstrations, these anti-Semitic demonstrations on 
campuses, are they largely led by student organizations or 
spontaneous things, or are they actually things that are 
supported by the university? I think that is a materially 
important thing to try to understand.
    Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. 
They are organized at a grassroots level by some of the groups 
that I mentioned today in my spoken and written testimony.
    What is so frustrating is that these chapters--
specifically, we are talking about Students for Justice in 
Palestine--many of them actually get student activities fees 
from the universities.
    Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin. And that is my point. So it is not 
like it is sanctioned by the presidents of these universities. 
So that just leads me to the discussion of your work, Dr. 
Schanzer, with the Foundations for the Defense of Democracy. 
You were formerly at the Treasury Department with----
    Mr. SCHANZER. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin [continuing]. With OFAC?
    Mr. SCHANZER. Yes.
    Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin. You know, this is very frightening, 
to think that we have to rely on you to identify terrorist 
organizations, as opposed to the Treasury Department. What--how 
big is the footprint of OFAC, particularly as some has 
described about our movement away from the war on terror?
    How--what--how many employees, or how many people in the 
Treasury Department are on this so that, you know, something 
innocuous like the Holy Land Foundation or KindHearts for 
charitable development--I mean, it doesn't sound mean to me. 
How far is the reach of Treasury Department into these kinds of 
organizations to stop them from funding these kinds of 
activities?
    Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you for this question. It is really 
important that you ask it, and I will try to be brief here.
    In the 2000s, when I worked there, we did tackle some of 
the domestic groups that were operating here in the United 
States, like Holy Land, KindHearts, et cetera. By the end of 
that decade, we stopped doing that through the Treasury. It 
became the jurisdiction of the Department of Justice and the 
FBI to look at entities that were operating inside this 
country. It wasn't just good enough to freeze assets, and it 
was actually even a bit complicated----
    Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin. Let me stop, because the Chairman 
to cut me off.
    So, we had a big funding of IRS agents. This is one of the 
things that they could be trying to analyze. But you say it is 
no longer the jurisdiction?
    Mr. SCHANZER. Not in the terror finance department. IRS, I 
think it could be quite helpful.
    Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin. If we had--you know, Mr. Chairman, 
we need the money.
    I just want to say, before my time has run out, that I am 
the product of people protesting and dissenting and exercising 
their First Amendment rights. The college and university I went 
to, you know, it was White German kids and White Irish 
Catholics that protested on Marquette's campus, along with the 
Black football players, to try to get somebody like me an 
opportunity to go to college. And they gathered at Saint 
Joan's, a church on campus. They had bread and water feasts. 
You know, their parents were terrified because their kids were 
hungry, going hungry, and they wouldn't eat anything but bread 
and water until the university responded to the need to have 
somebody other than Black basketball players, and that was 
during the Al McGuire days, when, you know, Black athletes were 
at a premium at Marquette, and only White kids. So I just want 
to say I really think it is important for us to draw a line, 
and that is why I asked the question that I asked, you know, so 
that schools are not just summarily punished for free speech.
    There are uncomfortable conversations, Mr. Greenblatt. If I 
were to sit here right now and call out some racist stuff that 
I see that happens every day in Congress, they would be out 
there censuring me on the floor. And all I am asking for is 
just to tell me today you are going to censure me so I can have 
my hair done and the outfit that I want to wear, because I am 
not trying to be, you know, funny here.
    I am just trying to say that I think it is extremely 
important that we preserve people's right to petition their 
government. But at the same time, every student everywhere 
ought to have the right to learn without being intimidated and 
without being harmed, and that is the promise of America, that 
you can learn, and earn, and do it, girlfriend, do it and hold 
your head high. You tell them that Gwen Moore told you to do 
it.
    I yield back. [Applause.]
    Chairman SMITH. Mr. Feenstra.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And amen, Ms. Moore, 
thank you for your comments. I applaud you for those. I agree 
with you.
    I just want to also thank our witnesses, and thank you for 
taking the time to be here. My heart bleeds, it hurts. I was in 
Israel, I was at a kibbutz that saw the atrocities, and I can't 
imagine the humanity and how this can occur.
    But I do know this. I do know that it is America's job to 
protect and support our dearest allies in Israel, and that 
includes financial support, it includes stopping all forms of 
intimidation, and it also is about stopping the flow of money 
from American organizations to terrorists whose sole purpose is 
to annihilate Israel.
    The Federal Government has its--has several entities 
responsible for tracking illicit funding, and we need to be 
assessing and strengthening and building on these, and stopping 
what is occurring. So, Mr. Schanzer, I know you have talked 
about this in length already, but I want to look for solutions. 
We can talk about what is all happening. We all get it. We have 
heard it. But what are the solutions? What can we do to track 
it down?
    And do you see any new technologies, anything that we can 
use, whether it be AI or whatever, that we as Congress can act 
upon?
    Mr. SCHANZER. Congressman Feenstra, if you are referring to 
the activities of some of these extremist groups and how we can 
stop them, look, I think part of it is about perhaps reforming 
the tax code, not giving 501(c)(3) breaks to organizations that 
we know are embracing hate speech and targeting specific 
sectors of American society. That should be beyond the pale. I 
don't think you need AI for that, right?
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Right.
    Mr. SCHANZER. That is a fairly----
    Mr. FEENSTRA. That is simple, absolutely.
    Mr. SCHANZER. Straightforward.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Correct.
    Mr. SCHANZER. Now from there, we have got--I think it is a 
murkier question, right? You have got to--when you start seeing 
organizations that have connections to terrorist groups in the 
past, terrorist charities in the past, there has got to be 
follow-up. And that requires the bureaucracy, that requires 
resources.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
    Mr. SCHANZER. And I know those resources are tougher and 
tougher to come by. But I do think, as I said before, I think 
we have got to figure out how to walk and chew gum.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
    Mr. SCHANZER. We should be able to do great power 
competition while also tracking the potential terrorist groups 
or extremist groups or hate groups that are terrorizing entire 
sectors of American society.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. That is right. I agree with you 100 percent. 
And we have got to be active. I mean, we ought to talk. We talk 
a great game, but we have got to do it, and we can do many of 
those things. I know you talked about this a little bit in your 
testimony, but----
    Mr. SCHANZER. Yes, and, if I can add one thing, Congressman 
Feenstra, as well, which is AI needs to be better deployed in 
terms of basic security.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
    Mr. SCHANZER. You know, we have seen so many issues, 
obviously, in broader society, but including on campus, where 
it is not rocket science to trace and see where those threats 
and issues are originating. And I would love to see, frankly, 
college students who are bright like Talia----
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Absolutely.
    Mr. SCHANZER [continued]. Deployed, but we have even more 
resources at a Federal Government level. Let's take those 
resources, start understanding where the threats are 
originating, and that will help organizations like Hillel and 
all universities do a better job of defending them.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Absolutely.
    Ms. Dror, I want to get to you, and I just want to say 
something that--I have three children in college, all right, 
your age. And it pains me to hear what is going on, right? I 
send my kids to college, I never worry about their safety, nor 
should I, as a dad. Right? But you and your parents, that is 
scary. It is scary stuff.
    Now my question for you--and I will ask Mr. Lehman, too, 
but Ms. Dror, these universities--and I know your university 
has this, too, I mean, we promote this idea of DEI, right? 
Diversity, inclusion, equity, equality. Has this come out at 
all in your institution of saying, ``Are you protecting 
yourself and all these great students that are there?''
    Ms. DROR. Following the death threats the university has 
taken a greater initiative to integrate Jewish students into 
their DEI efforts. Those have been appreciated.
    In terms of the anonymous platforms, I did want to say----
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
    Ms. DROR [continuing]. Sidechat is very much used at 
Cornell. So is Greek Rank.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
    Ms. DROR. The threats were made on Greek Rank.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
    Ms. DROR. These are anonymous posting platforms in which 
students don't have their names attached to what they are 
saying.
    I have seen so much horrific--like, I opened up Sidechat, 
like, to look at jokes----
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes, yes.
    Ms. DROR [continuing]. To look at people making fun of 
professors, to look at funny things. I am met with the word 
``Zionism'' used as a curse word every single day and every 
single post, and students are not being held accountable for 
it.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. That is so sad.
    Ms. DROR. Posts that are deeply anti-Semitic, posts that 
have roots to Jews running the money, like, these deeply anti-
Semitic tropes, have over 300 upvotes.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
    Ms. DROR. People who are hiding behind their cell phones 
are upvoting anti-Semitic comments. These anonymous platforms 
are widely used by students. Maybe they shouldn't be.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. No, and I agree. And I was on a university--I 
was a professor, and I checked these chats, too, because, 
obviously, they destroy professors. That is nothing. I can 
handle that, right? But what is happening on those Sidechats--
and anonymous, right? People hiding and saying and destroying 
other students is completely uncalled for, and our universities 
have got to take note and stop this. I know my university that 
I was part of, we stopped some of these Sidechats because it is 
completely wrong.
    Thank you, I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Ms. Malliotakis is recognized.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Well, thank you all for being here. This 
is an incredibly important discussion that needs to be had. It 
needs to be exposed, and we must all work together to find 
solutions.
    I find it incredibly disturbing, disheartening, 
heartbreaking to see the anti-Semitism that is occurring right 
here in this country, in the United States of America, full on 
display. And you know what? It is college campuses, but it is 
larger than that. I mean, we are seeing it, you know, 
institutions that were respected, right? The United Nations, 
for example, Congress, colleges, and universities.
    We have to work together to figure out--we need to have, as 
you mentioned, a definition, parameters, and solutions.
    I think that some of the things that we have been seeing 
for this next generation, certainly on our college campuses, 
are disturbing. And we have mentioned a few of those horrific 
threats, assaults, incidents that have happened in 
universities. The University of Maryland may have been one of 
the worst, referencing Holocaust 2.0, but some happening in my 
own state of New York. Unfortunately, too many of it--Cornell 
University.
    Thank you for coming today and your bravery to speak. You 
are very impressive, and I imagine we are going to see great 
things from you in the future.
    But looking at what happened at Columbia University when an 
Israeli student was attacked outside the library; hundreds of 
professors signing a letter supporting Hamas terror; NYU, 
Cooper Union, Jewish students had to be locked in a library for 
their own safety. You know, we can go on and on.
    And one of the worst examples that didn't happen after 
October 7 but before was at City University of New York. All 
right? We had--the law school last year thought it was a good 
idea to have an anti-Semitic graduation speaker who actually 
said, ``I want to celebrate CUNY law as one of the few, if not 
the only, law school to make a public statement defending the 
right of its students to organize and speak out against Israeli 
settler colonization. This is the law school that passed and 
endorsed BDS on the student and faculty level, recognizing 
that, absent a critical imperialism settler colony lens, our 
work and this school's mission statement is void of value.'' I 
mean, this is what they are saying at graduations at our 
college universities.
    So the answer, what is the answer? We talked about some 
solutions today. I would like to know. I mean, do you think we 
should be--first of all, we have to define it, right? And then 
you mentioned the IHRA definition. I have actually just 
sponsored legislation that would require the Department of 
Education, require these universities to follow that 
definition, because we need to have parameters, right, or else 
it always is a slippery slope.
    But I think we need to use that definition and then go 
after these institutions and strip Federal funding from 
colleges and institutions that allow, that fund, that 
facilitate events that promote anti-Semitism, or have 
professors that teach it to our young people.
    The fact that, you know, they are teaching our young people 
that Hamas, that they are freedom fighters, that they are not a 
terrorist organization, that is what they are teaching our 
young people, and it is disgraceful.
    What about Federal financial aid? Should we be prohibiting 
that aid from being used at such institutions? Those are 
American tax dollars. Maybe they should be going to better 
universities that are not teaching these things to our people. 
So maybe we want to prohibit that.
    Maybe we should be rescinding tax exempt status from these 
institutions and organizations.
    And maybe we should be looking to see if these are 
foreign--any foreign students that have a student visa, maybe 
it should be revoked if they are participating in this anti-
Semitism on our college campuses.
    I would love to hear your responses to those four ideas, 
and we will start with you, Ms. Dror.
    Ms. DROR. Like I said before, I am not a legal policy 
expert, so I am going to defer to the actual legal policy 
experts. But I am----
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Mr. Lehman?
    Mr. LEHMAN. Yes, thank you. As we have been discussing, 
title 6 enforcement does actually invoke several of those 
remedies in terms of financial penalty. That has to be a part 
of the equation. Let's use what we have available.
    I also want to go back to a prior question about DEI and 
briefly just point out the world is upside down. We have DEI 
offices who specifically, in the wake of October 7, made a 
point of celebrating resistance and alienating their Jewish 
student communities. It is literally backwards. So apart from 
financial penalties, if there are ways to hold DEI offices 
accountable to provide the same protection for Jewish students 
that they should be affording to every other minority.
    Ms. TISHBY. I definitely support revoking visa status. As 
an immigrant to this country and a proud American, I had to go 
through a rigmarole in order to become a citizen. I think that 
it should be revoked, and I need to be--we need to make sure 
that they are not using our democracy against us. They are 
using the democracy against us. We can't allow that to happen.
    Mr. GREENBLATT. We should do as much as we can. I think 
everything from adopting IRA to implementing DEI, to title 6 
remedies.
    I don't know enough about revoking people's student visas, 
but again, the full force of the law will make these 
universities listen.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Thank you.
    Chairman SMITH. Mr. Schneider.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you, and let me thank the witnesses 
for your patience, but also your clarity here. I am going to 
kind of run through and maybe jump around.
    Ms. Talia, Ms. Dror, thank you. Something maybe you didn't 
expect to hear from the podium, but [speaking foreign 
language], you have been wonderful. Are those your parents 
behind you?
    Ms. DROR. They are, yes.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. You should be very proud of your daughter.
    My kids, my sons, are a decade ahead of you. My oldest son 
is a Dartmouth grad and is at Harvard Law School.
    Mr. Lehman, I thought you would appreciate that.
    We are from Chicago. My physical therapist is someone named 
Jennifer Cohn. Her husband, Charles, works with you. She says 
hello. I am going to have connections with all of you before I 
am done here. [Laughter.]
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. But I want to thank you. My younger son went 
to Muhlenberg and--School, also with a large Jewish population. 
They were a decade earlier, so it was a different experience. 
But he had a classmate named--from Chicago named Madison Polin, 
and her cousin, Hersch Goldberg Polin, is a captive in Gaza 
right now. You may have heard his story. He lost his arm. We 
need to get the Red Cross into seeing those captives. We need 
to get those captives home today. Yesterday, in fact.
    Ms. TISHBY, you touched on the fact 240--the youngest one 
is--well, was taken at 9 months, is now----
    Ms. TISHBY. Nine months, yes.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. Ten months old.
    Ms. TISHBY. Ten months old. And also----
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. Wait, don't take--this is my story. I am 
teasing. But he is not the youngest one anymore.
    Ms. TISHBY. I know.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. There was a woman who was eight months 
pregnant when she was taken captive, and we believe that she 
has now given birth. So the youngest captive is someone who is, 
God willing, alive, and yet has spent every day of that baby's 
life a captive of Hamas, and must be able to come home.
    Ms. TISHBY. Bring them home.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. Bring them home.
    One of my colleagues mentioned that anti-Semitism wasn't an 
issue when we were in school. I went to school a long time ago, 
40 years ago at Northwestern, which I am going to come back to 
in a second. Anti-Semitism has always been an issue. It just 
hasn't always been front and center. It hasn't been open. It 
hasn't been so accepted. And today, not only is it open and 
accepted--and I take this term from someone I saw screaming 
about it in the UK--it is fashion. It is fashionable to be 
anti-Semitic, and the high anti-Semitism now is anti-Zionism. 
And people are celebrating.
    And I think Natan Sharansky, who was there yesterday, had a 
chance to speak with--for a little bit. His three days of 
demonization, delegitimization, and double standard hits it 
right on the head. And, Dr. Schanzer, the last time we were 
together I did a march through history going back to the 3,000 
years that the Jews have been in the land of Israel. I am going 
to go the reverse area. In this, I will start with Ms. Tishby.
    Israel was created what year?
    Ms. TISHBY. In 1948, it reemerged.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. And Google is a wonderful thing. Your 
grandmother was the founder of a kibbutz, Degania.
    Ms. TISHBY. Yes.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. What year was Degania created?
    Ms. TISHBY. Degania was created in----
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. In 1910.
    Ms. TISHBY [continuing]. 1910, yes. I was going to say 
1908, but--yes.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. It was a community that pre-dated the state 
of Israel and is still there.
    Ms. TISHBY. There has been Jewish presence in the Land of 
Israel for generations, forever.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. So we are on the same wavelength because I 
was going to go to Tzfat.
    Ms. TISHBY. Yes.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. And what is Tzfat famous for?
    Ms. TISHBY. Kabbalah.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. Kabbalah. The Jews that came to Tzfat at 
that time, where did they come from?
    Ms. TISHBY. Jerusalem and----
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. Spain.
    Ms. TISHBY. Or Spain, yes, yes.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. Yes, they came from Spain----
    Ms. TISHBY. Yes.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER [continuing]. Because they were kicked out of 
Spain in the 16th century. But Tzfat was one of the four holy 
cities at the time of the Bible, 2,000 years ago. Jews have 
been in the land of Israel for 3,000 years. And I mention that 
because that is what we are talking about here on campuses, 
this argument that Israel is a colonial enterprise, a post-
colonial--I don't even know the words they say. It is not, it 
is----
    Ms. TISHBY. Settler colonialist.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. So--thank you. That is----
    Ms. DROR. Apartheid oppressor.
    Ms. TISHBY. Yes.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. Yes.
    Ms. TISHBY. And the last bastion of settler colonialism 
that needs to be----
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. Yes, even though it is a place where Jews 
have lived for so long.
    So, Mr. Lehman, if I can touch on you in--last here, free 
speech--as a lawyer, free speech is not always acceptable. You 
can't yell ``fire'' in a crowded theater. It is the idea of 
fighting words. And I looked it up--from Cornell's website, in 
fact--but fighting words are words meant to incite violence 
such as they may not be protected free speech under the First 
Amendment. The U.S. Supreme Court first defined them in 
Chaplinsky versus New Hampshire, 1942 as words ``by their very 
utterance, inflict injury or tend to incite immediate breach of 
the peace.''
    Mr. Lehman, are we seeing that on college campuses and are 
there things that universities can do to address it?
    Mr. LEHMAN. Yes. Well, say hello to Jennifer Cohn. I saw 
her husband, who is a fantastic Hillel director, on Sunday. 
Charles.
    But on this issue, we are seeing it. And again, what is so 
problematic is we are seeing it in hundreds of campuses, with 
hundreds of instances of hate speech. We have documented them, 
and they are hate speech that exactly crosses the line you are 
describing because they are inciting violence. The words are 
around, you know, genocide of and by Jews, and the words are 
directed at Jews in a way that, frankly, never asked them, by 
the way, what they think about the Middle East.
    No one ever says, ``What do you think about the two-state 
solution?'' No one ever says, ``Are you empathetic to 
Palestinians? Do you care about their rights and future, as 
well?'' All they do is treat Jewish students in these cases as 
these horrible baby killers, and it has to stop. And that is, 
again, what we are trying to.
    Mr. SCHNEIDER. I wish I had more time to talk more. I will 
say Northwestern has--they got it wrong at first. They are 
creating an anti-Semitism task force, finally, and taking 
steps. I think that is what schools can do. Mr. Greenblatt, you 
have it in your testimony, and I will highlight it, as well.
    Thank you all very much.
    I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Mr. Carey is recognized.
    Mr. CAREY. I want to thank the chairman. I want to thank 
also the ranking member for allowing this committee to be put 
together.
    And I think, if you have seen anything from this body 
today, in the words of one of the singers from the--he is still 
a singer, but there was a song that said there is no monopoly 
on common sense on either side of the political fence, and I 
think you have seen that from all of us today.
    You know, over the last month there have been multiple 
instances of anti-Semitism and crimes committed against the 
Jewish community in and around central Ohio. I was with some 
Ohio State students. They said that they had been reaching out 
with you. Well, I was just with them yesterday.
    But last month in Bexley, Ohio, which is a community that 
is probably a mile-and-a-half--I split the City of Columbus in 
half with my dear friend, Joyce Beatty. But on the east side of 
Columbus an individual--many of you have seen this video--
approached a Jewish woman's house. And after she answered the 
door--thankfully, with a Ring camera--the man spewed anti-
Semitism into her Ring doorbell camera. Then the same 
individual proceeded to a nearby house flying the Israeli flag 
and did the exact same thing.
    Now, this is a neighborhood that my wife and I spend an 
awful lot of time in. Our friends live in this neighborhood. 
One of our friends, who was--actually, was with my wife on the 
night that I met her, is 40 years old. I went to her birthday 
party. And for the first time in her life--and she is Jewish--
for the first time in her life her mother called her and said, 
``Be careful of your surroundings.'' Now, this is something 
that she was--felt very common with, just being a female and 
younger, and it was the first time she was ever fearful of her 
religion.
    Then, just last week, as these students were telling me, 
one incident occurred at OSU's Hillel Wexler Jewish Center and 
another outside of a bar close to campus. These incidents are 
just some of the many occurrences that are happening across the 
country. And as I said yesterday, I had the opportunity, the 
privilege to meet with the Ohio Jewish community and a group of 
students from Ohio State. It was incredible to hear their 
story.
    I worked with several members of my delegation from Ohio, 
and we have just sent a letter to the acting president.
    And one of the things that I have seen is a lot of these 
universities, while they have made statements now, waited a 
little too long to do that. But I will say I applaud what Ohio 
State has come out and done. We have 3,000 Jewish students at 
Ohio State, and I do applaud their efforts.
    One thing that I have found interesting, because we have a 
very big Jewish community in the 15th congressional district, 
were the calls that we are getting in our congressional 
offices. Now, you would think they would be individuals that 
were just concerned about what is happening in the world today. 
But I have kind of seen the body politic from a different view 
for many, many years. These are push calls. These are 
individuals that are called, and they are given a script, and 
immediately told press one if you want to complain to your 
congressman.
    Now, I only have a minute-and-a-half, and I apologize I 
went on a little too long. But Dr. Schanzer, who do you think 
might be paying for these calls that say that my staff is 
working for the Israeli Government?
    Mr. SCHANZER. That is a good question. I obviously don't 
know.
    Mr. CAREY. No, I know.
    Mr. SCHANZER. But we have a pretty good idea of the network 
that is pushing this deeply anti-Semitic, anti-Israel sentiment 
on Capitol Hill.
    Mr. CAREY. Don't you all find it also increasingly 
interesting that these phone calls tend to pick up, I don't 
know, when there happens to be a big protest that is right 
outside our office? Or maybe a day or two after the protest. So 
the coordination of these entities, as you pointed out, is very 
clear.
    We have got to stop the money, and we have got to push back 
on college campuses that don't stand up for our students. And 
with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Mr. Panetta is recognized.
    Mr. PANETTA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this 
opportunity.
    And, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your patience 
today. I will try to be quick, as I am, I think, the last 
person to ask you a question and make a statement.
    I was part of the first congressional delegation to go into 
Israel on the Tuesday after the Saturday attack. We were there 
in the Middle East to talk about peace, and unfortunately, we 
left talking about war. We were able to go into Israel by 
driving across the border from Amman, and we were able to speak 
to the leadership and to a few victims on that Tuesday after 
that Saturday bloodthirsty attack. Obviously, I felt the trauma 
and will always remember the determination that was evoked from 
this attack and will continue as we get through this.
    But yesterday, Members of Congress had the opportunity to 
then view the 45-minute compilation of videos from this attack. 
And, as you can imagine, it absolutely was horrific. And I was 
telling somebody about this opportunity to do that, and they 
asked, ``What were some of the images that stand out with 
you?'' Well, what images didn't stand out with me? Hardly any.
    But a couple that come to mind were, obviously, the father 
who was killed in front of his two sons with that grenade. A 
video of a blood trail throughout a house that just seemed to 
go on and on and on. And it just makes you think, why were they 
dragging this body throughout the house?
    But one of the videos that stood out to me was when--there 
were certain videos that were taken in Gaza of hostages, of 
lifeless bodies that were taken there. And you see the 
celebration that went on not by Hamas fighters, but what seemed 
to be civilians. The spitting on the hostages, the kicking of 
lifeless bodies of IDF soldiers that were brought back into 
Gaza.
    And it made me think that this is not an issue about land, 
it is an issue about a belief. And it reminded me of an 
Economist article that I read that talked about--the headline 
is how the term genocide is misused in the Israel-Hamas war. 
And in it, it says Hamas is a genocidal organization. And that 
made me think of Mr. Schanzer.
    You were on TV with Jake Tapper when he did an excellent 
job laying out these three kinds of principles from Hamas 
leadership and showing these videos of where one of the Hamas 
leaders said, ``Sacrifice of people is necessary.'' Two, they 
said the people in Gaza basically are not our problem, they are 
all refugees. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the UN to 
protect them, not Hamas. And three, they showed that one of the 
leaders of Hamas basically said, yes, there will be a second, 
third, and fourth attack, because we have the determination and 
the resolve and the capabilities to fight. We are ready to pay 
the price. We are a nation of martyrs. And then you went on to 
sort of tie it up. I don't know if you remember that, but you 
did an excellent job.
    And it makes me think, then, about the slogan, ``From the 
river to the sea,'' an idealistic vow of liberation that 
implies the destruction of the state of Israel. Now, obviously, 
there are some who are protesting now who are naive to that 
meeting. But as I read in an article, anyone who was paying 
attention knows exactly what that means.
    Now, I do believe that we must uphold the principles of 
free speech. However, we can't use that as a shield to hate 
speech that consists of specific threats of violence targeted 
against a specific group. We know this.
    Now, Mr. Greenblatt, you have noted that anti-Semitic 
incidents tend to spike whenever there is a conflict involving 
Israel, including the current Israel-Gaza war. Is that because 
nowadays what we are seeing is that real wars and cultural wars 
are no longer separate struggles?
    Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes, thank you for the question, Mr. 
Congressman.
    I will just say, number one, the reason why you butcher and 
brutalize corpses, there is a straight line from that to 
tearing down the posters of hostages. It is dehumanizing 
people. It is demonizing them. It is rendering them as objects, 
as subhuman. It is what the Nazis did 70 years ago. It is what 
Hamas would do today. That is why we are so fervent about the 
evil of anti-Zionism. Again, it flattens people into 
caricatures, and leaves all of us as Jews vulnerable. That is 
number one.
    Number two, culture wars, violent wars. I have said loudly 
for all to hear in the prior administration that using 
dehumanizing, violent rhetoric leads to inhumane and violent 
actions. And some on the left applauded me for saying that. 
Well, it is true here, too. And so when Members of Congress, in 
the well of the House, use language like ``From the river to 
the sea,'' that is like saying ``Germany is for Germans'' in 
1933.
    And so, yes, culture wars can lead to real-world violence, 
and we shouldn't tolerate it when it is directed at anyone, 
regardless of the color of their skin, the nature of their 
faith, or any aspect of their identity.
    Mr. PANETTA. Thank you. Thanks to all the witnesses.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have to yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    I want to thank every one of you all for testifying. This 
was an extremely important hearing, and I am very thankful that 
we had it today. This is--and I hope that every one of you have 
a very happy Thanksgiving. We are looking forward to leaving 
Washington after 10 weeks.
    Please be advised that members have two weeks to submit 
written questions to be answered later in writing. Those 
questions and your answers will be made part of the formal 
hearing record.
    With that, the committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 5:45 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
      

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