[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                 THE ONE PERCENT: SUPPORTING AMERICA'S
                  SURVIVING MILITARY FAMILY COMMUNITY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                       TUESDAY, JANUARY 30, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-48

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
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                   Available via http://govinfo.gov
                    
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
54-956                    WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                         
                  
                    
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

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                       TUESDAY, JANUARY 30, 2024

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Mike Bost, Chairman................................     1
The Honorable Mark Takano, Ranking Member........................     3

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel 1

The Honorable Joshua Jacobs, Under Secretary for Benefits, 
  Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans 
  Affairs........................................................     5

        Accompanied by:

    Mr. Kevin Friel, Deputy Director, Pension and Fiduciary 
        Service, Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. 
        Department of Veterans Affairs

    Dr. Mark Upton, Deputy to the Deputy Under Secretary for 
        Health, Veterans Health Administration, U.S. Department 
        of Veterans Affairs

                                Panel 2

Ms. Gabriella Kubinyi, Surviving Spouse of Jeffrey Ferren, 
  Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW).................................    28

Ms. Kaanan Mackey-Fugler, Surviving Spouse of Matthew Mackey.....    29

Ms. Ashlynne Haycock-Lohmann, Deputy Director, Government and 
  Legislative Affairs, Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors 
  (TAPS).........................................................    31

Ms. Kelly B. Hruska, Government Relations Director, National 
  Military Family Association (NMFA).............................    33

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

The Honorable Joshua Jacobs Prepared Statement...................    49
Ms. Gabriella Kubinyi Prepared Statement.........................    56
Ms. Kaanan Mackey-Fugler Prepared Statement......................    60
Ms. Ashlynne Haycock-Lohmann Prepared Statement..................    64
Ms. Kelly B. Hruska Prepared Statement...........................    80

                       Statements For The Record

Ms. Laura Lehigh.................................................    92
Disabled American Veterans (DAV).................................    93
Fleet Reserve Association........................................    96
Paralyzed Veterans of America (PVA)..............................    98

 
                 THE ONE PERCENT: SUPPORTING AMERICA'S
                  SURVIVING MILITARY FAMILY COMMUNITY

                              ----------                              


                       TUESDAY, JANUARY 30, 2024

                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mike Bost 
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Bost, Mace, Miller-Meeks, Murphy, 
Franklin, Van Orden, Ciscomani, Self, Kiggans, Takano, 
Brownley, Deluzio, McGarvey, Landsman, and Budzinski.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF MIKE BOST, CHAIRMAN

    The Chairman. Good morning, everyone. The committee will 
come to order.
    I want to welcome our witnesses to today's hearing. We are 
here today to discuss Veterans Administration (VA) and what VA 
is doing and if they are doing enough to support our survivor 
community.
    Now, this topic is personal for me, as I guess it is to 
many of you, I am sure. You know, I spent a lot of time 
whenever I was in the service watching my wife look closely 
at--I was part of 7th Man and MAC 7. She was always knew that 
if my 782 gear was gone from the front door, somebody might 
call her later. We always had those worries.
    I understand the price of our surviving military family and 
community has had to pay. It is a debt that Phil Roe up here 
used to say could never be fully repaid, which is why I want to 
thank each of you for having the courage to join us here today.
    Just 1 percent of Americans raise their right hand and 
serve in our military, which means that less than 1 percent of 
American families will endure the pain that comes with the loss 
of their servicemember or veteran who they loved. We must 
ensure that our survivor community has access to the support 
benefits, healthcare that their servicemember or veteran has 
earned, period.
    Whether it is a training accident, combat deployment, 
mental health struggles, or a disability as a result of the 
veteran's military service, it is the spouse and children who 
bear the brunt of these life-altering events. When a veteran is 
disabled because of their service, it is their spouses and 
children who have to support them. When a veteran is totally 
disabled because of their service, it is their family members 
who typically serve as their primary caregivers.
    Military and veteran spouses often put their careers on 
hold to care for their loved one who bears the scars of their 
service. When their veteran loved one passes away, surviving 
families often depend on VA pension or compensation to make 
ends meet. It is in that fog of grief that the survivors need 
to know that VA has their back.
    On January 5, the Secretary stated that every day VA will 
serve veterans families, caregivers, and survivors every bit, 
as well as the veterans who served this Nation. I do not doubt 
the Secretary's word. However, in multiple conversations with 
committee staff, VA employees described survivors' issues as 
less of a priority for the Department than veterans' issues 
more broadly. Even the suggestion that that could be the case 
is unsettling.
    Too often, we hear the survivors are unaware of the 
benefits available to them or how to apply. The information on 
VA's website can be out of date for certain education benefits 
for survivors, but not for other benefits. We must ensure that 
VA is treating all education benefits equally.
    Let us say a surviving spouse or child does file a claim 
after wading through the confusing forms and conflicting 
information, then the VA often takes years to process their 
claim, whether it be for compensation, pension, or education 
benefits. Even a surviving child's simplest claim form, the 
Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC) benefit, can take 
months to process.
    Further, in the Civilian Health and Medical Program of the 
Department of Veterans Affairs (CHAMPVA) program, we have heard 
of outdated paper claim filing process, payment delays and 
denials of healthcare services without explanation. We have 
heard of VA vet centers turning away survivors seeking 
bereavement services and mental health support. These issues 
have real-life consequences for the families of those who have 
served.
    In 2008, Congress established VA's Office of Survivors 
Assistance (OSA) to serve as a principal advisor to the 
Secretary on all policies and programs affected in the veteran 
survivors community. Under the Biden administration, this 
office was moved out of the Secretary's office and banished to 
the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) within the pension 
and fiduciary (P&F) services. The pension and fiduciary 
services do not even cover all the survivor benefits.
    Further, it has been easier for many survivors to receive 
DIC under the The Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Honoring 
our Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics (PACT) Act, and I 
trust that three full-time employees within the Office of 
Survivors Assistance are not able to handle the influx of 
questions and casework associated with these new authorities.
    Further, the Office of Survivors Assistance no longer even 
meets regularly with the VA Secretary's office. This is 
unacceptable, unacceptable to me, and it should be unacceptable 
to all of us. I look forward to hearing from Mr. Jacobs' 
response to my questions on it today.
    Furthermore, for the hearing, I specifically identified 
Deputy Secretary Tanya Bradsher to be VA's lead witness. Deputy 
Secretary Bradsher should have been capable of answering the 
VA's what I see as a shortcoming in helping survivors. She 
could also directly answer why the Office of Survivors 
Assistance has been drastically deprioritized and some would 
simply say ignored by the Office of the Secretary. Now, I am 
pleased that Under Secretary Jacobs is here, but in the future, 
I hope VA would send the witness that we had requested instead 
of substituting their judgment for mine.
    I am proud to co-sponsor Representatives Ciscomani's bill, 
the Prioritizing Veteran Survivors Act. This bill would 
rightfully return the Office of Survivor Assistance back to the 
Office of the Secretary. This would ensure that all survivors 
programs' policies always have a seat at the table and an 
advocate on their side at the VA.
    Now, finally, before we turn over to the ranking member for 
his opening remarks, I would like to take a moment if we could 
a moment of silence. Kim Ruocco, who tragically passed away on 
January 21, Kim was a surviving spouse of Marine Corps veteran 
John Ruocco and a vice president of Suicide Prevention and 
Postvention at the Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors 
(TAPS). Kim was dedicated and an advocate for the entire 
survivors community. Kim's passing is a great loss to them and 
us and to the entire military and veteran family. With that, I 
would like to take a moment of silence if we can, please.
    Thank you. I now recognize Ranking Member Takano for his 
opening comments.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF MARK TAKANO, RANKING MEMBER

    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. In line of 
memorializing our recently deceased servicemembers and 
veterans, I would like to take a moment to honor the three 
reservists who were killed at Tower 22 in Jordan over the 
weekend: Sergeant William Jerome Rivers, 46, of Carrollton, 
Georgia; Specialist Kennedy Ladon Sanders, 24, of Waycross, 
Georgia; Specialist Breonna Alexsondria Moffett, 23, of 
Savannah, Georgia. In addition, several days ago, a couple of 
weeks ago, we did lose two Navy Sea, Air, and Land Teams 
(SEAL)s who were lost at sea: Nathan Gage and Christopher 
Chambers. This is very sad news to all of us, and as we talk 
about survivors this morning, I am thinking about their 
families who now join the ranks of hundreds of thousands of 
other survivors.
    With that, let me just say thank you, Chairman Bost, for 
holding this very important hearing. Two years ago, when the 
Disability Assistance and Memorial Affairs Subcommittee held a 
hearing on the topic of survivor benefits, it was the first 
time it had been discussed in a decade. I appreciate that we 
are not waiting another decade again to hear from this vital 
community because what we found at that hearing 2 years ago was 
a survivors community, one that is at the core of VA's mission 
and in need of greater direct assistance.
    Historically, there has been a lack of resources dedicated 
to the mission of serving survivors. For example, only two 
employees in the Office of Survivors Assistance to serve over 
400,000 survivors as of the 2022 hearing that I held.
    We also saw a lack of awareness of who and where the 
survivors community are and a lack of direct and targeted 
outreach to them. As such, we have seen an underutilization of 
survivors' benefits.
    Since that subcommittee hearing, VA has made a few changes 
to increase their focus on survivors' issues. For example, VA 
has completed a long-overdue motto change, adopting one that is 
more inclusive and that now directly mentions their duty to 
serve survivors.
    Moreover, VA has made the decision to move the oversight of 
OSA from the Office of Transition and Economic Development to 
the Pension and Fiduciary Service at the Veterans Benefits 
Administration, a move that should hopefully shine more light 
on the work that OSA is doing. They have also moved oversight 
of the Survivors Advisory Committee to the Veterans Health 
Administration (VHA), which is a bit more curious, but, 
nevertheless, will hopefully result in more visibility within 
VA to the committee's great work.
    However, I am afraid, Mr. Chairman, that those changes so 
far have yet to produce substantial improvements to the 
programs utilized by survivors. I suspect that we will also 
hear from our Veterans Service Organization (VSO) and survivor 
witnesses that many of the same problems persist as they were 2 
years ago.
    The move of OSA to P&F came with only a minimal bump in the 
staffing dedicated to it. Indeed, OSA has grown from a paltry 
two employees to a robust three. Yet the number of survivors 
that VA is tasked with serving has only grown larger in the 
wake of the PACT Act. I am anxious to hear from VA how they 
plan to further staff that office so it can better serve 
survivors.
    I am also looking forward to hearing from VBA how they plan 
to better identify survivors and conduct more robust outreach 
to them. Currently, VBA only collects minimal demographic 
information on survivors. In fact, they cannot even query 
survivors' claims by cause of the veteran's death. VA must, VA 
must, work to identify gaps in benefits utilization rates and 
conduct targeted outreach to disadvantaged or underserved 
populations.
    Additionally, sometimes survivors are only learning of the 
benefits available to them at the time of a veteran's death. 
When family members are grieving the loss of a loved one, 
putting the onus on survivors to determine what benefits they 
are eligible for is truly a disservice. Grief's impact on those 
who lost a family member is debilitating and makes it difficult 
to find and often retain information. A survivor is just not in 
a state of mind to deal with all of this.
    That is why today, Mr. Chairman, I plan to introduce the 
Survivor Benefits Delivery Improvement Act, which will 
hopefully close some of these gaps in outreach and staffing and 
lead to better information in the hands of survivors before the 
time of need. Specifically, this bill will mandate the 
collection of demographic data from survivors receiving 
dependency and indemnity compensation, otherwise known as DIC, 
pensions under Chapter 15, and increased pensions for aid and 
attendance, with the goal of being able to improve outreach and 
equitable access to these benefits for the survivors of 
veterans.
    Collecting data on veterans, their families, and caregivers 
and survivors is an important component to understanding who VA 
serves and how to improve the delivery of services and benefits 
to these populations. This bill will mandate the collection of 
this data and will mandate also an analysis of any potential 
gaps in benefits utilization, and will direct VBA and NCA to 
create targeted outreach to underserved populations. NCA is the 
National Cemetery Administration.
    The second thing this bill does is to create a Survivor 
Solid Start program, based on the successful Solid Start 
program, to mandate Office of Congressional Affairs (OCA) 
proactively to call survivors to discuss them with them the 
benefits they have available to them. Additionally, the bill 
mandates that OCA have no fewer than five full-time employees 
to carry out this mission.
    While this bill will not, unfortunately, address the myriad 
technical and bureaucratic difficulties survivors face when 
accessing benefits, nor will it address the inadequacy of the 
monetary value of those benefits, it will hopefully lead VA to 
dedicate more time and resources to serving this population. 
That is why I am also working with VSOs on sunsetting Chapter 
35 as an educational benefit and instead placing all veterans, 
survivors, and dependents under the same educational program. 
While well-intentioned, the Chapter 35 benefit lags far behind 
the Forever GI Bill benefit and leaves survivors lacking 
benefits and oftentimes unable to get the specialized claims 
processing needed under chapter 35.
    Survivors deserve a VA that is responsive to their needs 
both before and after the death of their veteran, and it is my 
intent with the Survivor Benefits Delivery Improvement Act and 
our work on Chapter 35 to move VA further in that direction.
    Survivors have been underserved for too long, and they 
deserve this committee's attention and action. Today, we give 
them our attention, but, like with so many other issues, this 
Congress has failed to deliver the action.
    I invite you, Mr. Chairman, to join me in supporting the 
Survivor Benefits Delivery Improvement Act when I introduce it 
this afternoon to help demonstrate to survivors beyond just 
words that they are a priority for this committee and this 
Congress.
    I thank you, Mr. Chairman, and yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member. I thank you for 
inviting me to join onto the bill. We did receive it last 
night. I found out about this morning. I know many of our 
colleagues want to pass a bill before they find out what is in 
it. I prefer to read a bill before I find out whether I want to 
support or not. I will look it over and let you know back. 
Thank you very much, Ranking Member Takano.
    We will now turn to our witnesses. Testifying before us 
today we have Hon. Joshua Jacobs, the Under Secretary of 
Benefits for Department of Veterans Affairs. We also welcome 
Dr. Mark Upton, the Deputy to Under Secretary for Health, 
Veterans Health Administration. Finally, we have Mr. Kevin 
Friel, the Deputy Director of Pensions and Fiduciary Services 
at the Veterans Benefits Administration.
    Mr. Jacobs, you are recognized for 5 minutes for your 
opening remarks.

                   STATEMENT OF JOSHUA JACOBS

    Mr. Jacobs. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and 
members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
appear before you today to discuss how VA is working to meet 
the unique needs of veteran and military survivors.
    Before I get started today, I want to join you in 
acknowledging a tremendous loss to the survivor community in 
the passing of Kim Ruocco. She was a passionate advocate for a 
suicide prevention and postvention who transformed her grief 
into a lifelong commitment to supporting those who have been 
impacted by military and veteran suicide. Her legacy and body 
of work with TAPS will continue to inspire all of us for years 
to come.
    For our dedicated workforce at VA, our mission in caring 
for veterans and their survivors is deeply personal. In 1992, 
when Garrett Schmidt, a VBA employee of 16 years, was only 7 
years old, his father, Sergeant Michael Schmidt, died in a 
plane crash with seven other soldiers. Following Sergeant 
Schmidt's death, Garrett's beloved mother, Deanna, a daycare 
provider in rural Alaska, relied heavily upon VA's dependency 
and indemnity compensation benefits to care for Garrett and his 
2-year-old brother, Preston.
    Bonnie Carroll, founder of TAPS, also lost her husband, 
Brigadier General Thomas Carroll, on that very same plane 
crash. At the tender age of nine, Garrett collaborated with 
Bonnie to publish a book enabling him to help other children of 
servicemembers navigating their grief.
    Garrett also utilized dependent education benefits during 
college and said that the assistance he has received from VA 
over his life was crucial in maintaining stability during 
incredibly challenging times. His legacy of service came full 
circle when he joined VA's Pension and Fiduciary Service, where 
he works every day to help other survivors access their earned 
benefits.
    Stories like Garrett's inspire us to continuously try to do 
more and try to do better. After losing a loved one, survivors 
often face barriers accessing VA benefits due to intense grief, 
being disconnected from the military and veteran community, and 
because of difficulty navigating available resources. VA 
collaborates closely with the Department's internal and 
external partners to reach survivors who may be eligible for 
benefits and care. Those benefits include the DIC and education 
benefits Garrett's family received, as well as home loans, 
survivors pension insurance benefits, healthcare coverage and 
bereavement services, and burial and memorial services.
    As we continue improving the survivor experience, we are 
delivering more care and benefits to more survivors than ever 
before. To help meet the increasing demand for VA benefits, we 
have been aggressively expanding our workforce through hiring, 
including an 18 percent staff increase in the Pension 
Management Centers. In Fiscal Year 2023, we conducted outreach 
to approximately 300,000 survivors who may be eligible for 
benefits under the PACT act, allowing us to deliver disability 
and indemnity compensation benefits to 45,000 new survivors, an 
18.5 percent increase over the previous year.
    We delivered education benefits to more than 215,000 
children or surviving spouses of a veteran through the 
Survivors and Dependents Educational Assistance Program, a 17.4 
percent increase over Fiscal Year 2022. We also offered more 
than 3,000 eligible surviving spouses favorable loan terms and 
assistance in purchasing, building, retaining, or improving 
their home through our VA home loan program. CHAMPVA enrollees 
increased by 13 percent over Fiscal Year 2022, where we paid 
nearly $2 billion in total CHAMPVA claims.
    Finally, the Veterans Legacy Memorial, the Nation's first 
digital platform dedicated to honoring the memory of our fallen 
heroes, added 5 million new veterans to the platform this 
November, so that family members, friends, and the larger 
community can preserve the memory of these veterans and keep 
their legacy alive.
    Despite all of the success we have achieved in connecting 
more survivors with their earned benefits, we know that we 
still have plenty more work to do. Last spring, VA conducted a 
listening session with survivors to help us better understand 
the pain points, the moments that matter, and the opportunities 
to improve survivor support. During that session, we heard what 
many in this room know already, that far too many survivors 
still do not know what benefits they should be applying for, 
how to fill out their applications, or where to go to seek help 
or information.
    We recognize that like veterans, not all survivors are the 
same. There are a broad set of moments that matter, which is 
why we are continuing to do proactive outreach through events 
like the Survivors Forum we hosted jointly with Department of 
Defense (DOD) last week, and why we have launched a campaign to 
increase awareness about end-of-life benefits before veterans 
and their families reach their time of need. It is also why we 
are using the Survivor's Journey Map behind me as a guide to 
plan for and design better experience for survivors.
    We are also improving internal alignment across VA to 
ensure communication and outreach with the survivor community 
is easy and accessible. When veterans, their families, and 
survivors come to one part of VA, there should be no wrong 
door.
    VA remains committed to the President's and Congress' goal 
of supporting survivors of our servicemembers and veterans in a 
caring and compassionate manner that honors their sacrifice and 
service. While we have made progress, there is plenty more to 
do. We look forward to partnering with this committee, with 
VSOs, with groups representing survivors, and with survivors 
themselves to continue tailoring our support to better meet 
survivors' needs.
    Thank you for holding this hearing and giving us the 
opportunity to talk about this important set of issues, and I 
look forward to your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Joshua Jacobs Appears In The 
Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Jacobs. We are now going to go 
to questions, and I will yield myself 5 minutes.
    Mr. Jacobs, there are survivors services and benefits 
beyond the pension and commission's compensation, including 
those provided by NCA and VHA. Why has not the Office of 
Survivors Assistance been moved from Board of Veterans Appeals 
(BVA)'s Pension and Fiduciary back to the office of the VA 
Secretary?
    Mr. Jacobs. Chairman, thank you very much for that 
question.
    You know, fundamentally, we have a form versus function 
debate. My goal in thinking about how we organize ourselves as 
a Department is are we achieving the right outcomes? Are we 
delivering more benefits? Are we delivering a better 
experience? Are we increasing awareness? That is a major part 
of the reason why we are taking the Survivor's Journey Map that 
was built using direct feedback from survivors, and we are 
refreshing it to validate that what we heard before the 
pandemic remains true or, if not, that we update it.
    You know, the other part, as we think about our 
organizational design, is thinking about resource allocation 
and making sure that as we design and locate offices, that we 
can optimize our return on investment for our customers. We are 
taking a very hard look at our organizational structure. The 
bottom line is those decisions will be predicated based on the 
feedback that we get through this updated research.
    The Chairman. Also, the Office of Survivors Assistance has 
three full-time employees. When will VA provide that office 
with the necessary resources and personnel to assist all the 
survivors?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. The one thing to note here, you are right, 
there are three individuals. We are looking to fill two open 
slots. The responsibility for conducting outreach and 
engagement with survivors is not the responsibility of the 
Office of Survivors Assistance alone. We have the Pension and 
Management Center, where we have many employees who are 
responsible for delivering those benefits. Each of our regional 
offices are responsible for conducting targeted and specific 
outreach to their local communities. We have survivors on staff 
who help us do that because we know that not every survivor 
wants to be engaged in the same way or contacted whatsoever. We 
need to do that smartly and respectfully, recognizing the 
various needs. Part of the way that we are doing that is taking 
this feedback that we have received to date, continuing to seek 
that feedback and figure out how we need to do better.
    The Chairman. The first two questions I have just asked, 
you can understand how this committee and others that are 
actually receiving benefits can see that the concern they have 
that the office has, one, been moved away from the secretary; 
two, is not being well staffed, which means that the problem is 
that those benefits which you are talking very well about, and 
you have got a good flowchart----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    The Chairman.--to the general public, not a good look. It 
looks like it is the kind of the stepchild, and I do not 
believe that is where we want to be. I do not think that was 
ever the intent.
    On to the next side of the questions, though. Veterans' 
surviving families are often unaware of what benefits are 
available to them and how to apply. Now what, through this 
flowchart and everything like that, actions are being actually 
taken to make sure that the survivors know in great detail what 
is available to them?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. Thanks very much.
    Delivering care and benefits and support to survivors has 
been and will remain a top priority in the Department. We 
hosted, as I mentioned in my opening statement, a survivors 
forum last week. When the Office of Survivors Assistance was 
located in the Secretary previously, we would have somewhere 
along the lines of 50 participants. Now, under the 
reorganization we built that up to 200 last week.
    We clearly have more work to do. There are about 600,000 
survivors that we serve every day. There is a gap in knowledge 
and awareness and our ability to connect.
    Part of the way that we are doing that is through this 
work. We are working on targeted outreach. I mentioned the end-
of-life information. We are collaborating with VHA, NCA, and 
VBA to get information out about the suite of benefits that are 
available to survivors, to talk to them about the end-of-life 
choices that they are going to have to make with respect to 
their healthcare, to make sure that they can plan in advance 
for burial and memorial needs.
    The other thing that I will say that is really important 
for survivors is over the last year, I have traveled across the 
country trying to increase utilization of benefits. One of the 
most common refrains I get when I talk to veterans is I do not 
want to apply for benefits. I do not want to take away benefits 
from someone else. Every time I hear that, I always refute it, 
because you are not taking away benefits from someone else. You 
are helping yourself. You are helping your fellow veterans. One 
of the things that is most persuasive when I talk to veterans 
is do not do it for yourself, do it for your family member, 
because when you are no longer here, these benefits can help 
your family along after you have moved on.
    The Chairman. My time is expired, but I am going to ask 
right quick, when did you schedule the forum, before or after 
having this meeting scheduled?
    Mr. Jacobs. This is an annual forum that is planned well in 
advance. I do not know the exact date. I could give it to you, 
but we hold it every year.
    The Chairman. All right.
    Ranking Member, you are recognized.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Under Secretary Jacobs, I am less concerned about where OSA 
is situated than I am about its operation. As I spoke earlier 
about the current staffing level at OSA, I do feel it is 
inadequate. I share the chairman's concern that the Office of 
Caregiver Support has over 500 full-time employees to support 
approximately 40,000 VA caregivers. I realize there may be some 
balance of complexity here, but 500 full-time employees to 
serve 40,000 VA caregivers.
    I do not know how VBA thinks that three employees are 
sufficient to staff the Office of Survivor Assistance, who are 
supporting nearly a half a million survivors. The public does 
not understand that. This committee does not understand that.
    I know that the chairman asked this question, and you did 
announce a plan. I do hope you do have a plan. I want to move 
on to another question, if I may. Well, you want to respond? Go 
ahead.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, I just want to say, so we have hundreds, 
and I do not know the exact number, at the Pension Management 
Center of staff who are responsible for nothing other than 
dealing with survivors' benefits. That is DIC claims, survivor 
pension, burial benefits. Our call center employees manage a 
lot of that. They got over 750,000 calls in Fiscal Year 2023.
    Yes, we have many more employees than are in OSA. That 
said, we are working to validate that our staffing structure--
--
    Mr. Takano. Well, I just want to clarify, the call center 
employees are under a time limit, right----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. when they call in. They are not 
really equipped to sort of deal with maybe an aging survivor 
who may not be able to ask their questions----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. in a succinct manner, and they 
feel a lot of pressure to kind of move them around. Citing that 
you have a lot of----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. call center employees does not 
really kind of get at those people with the expertise to really 
answer questions. Right?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. I do not want to leave you with the 
impression that I am satisfied, because I think we still have 
more work to do and we are constantly looking how to improve. I 
just wanted to provide context that there are more staff 
focused on survivors than just those that exist in the Office 
of Survivors Assistance.
    Mr. Takano. Well, it would be helpful to me to know just 
how calls get routed.
    Mr. Jacobs. Sure.
    Mr. Takano. I mean, what I am hearing from survivors is 
that they would like a one-stop shop.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Takano. I do not think VA currently provides that.
    Mr. Jacobs. You are right.
    Mr. Takano. You are not in the state of mind to be able to 
be clear, and we need to get to people on the front end.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Takano. The loss of a loved one has been associated 
with depression, anxiety, substance use, and prolonged grief 
reactions. It is vital that when a survivor interacts with the 
VA, they are treated with kindness, compassion, and patience. 
Yet we have heard that the VA call center employees feel like 
they must rush important calls, including the first notice of 
death calls.
    Mr. Jacobs. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Jacobs, why was the decision made in 2020 
to route survivor calls to call centers versus one specialized 
center?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, I cannot tell you. I will have to get you 
an answer for the record there.
    What I will tell you is, in looking at the customer 
experience data that we have, the customer experience data for 
survivors is actually better than the general population of 
callers. At the same time, I just had a conversation last week, 
and I am hearing anecdotal information about survivors not 
getting the information that they need in a timely, accurate, 
and respectful way.
    I have asked my team to meet with TAPS and other groups to 
dig into this to make sure that we can talk through these 
issues.
    Mr. Takano. Well, did VA conduct any research that 
determined that a single call center was insufficient or 
unsatisfactory? Have you kind of looked into that?
    Mr. Jacobs. What I will tell you is with the updated 
research that we are working through on the Survivor Journey 
Map, we are identifying a desire for a single point of contact. 
We are working through to figure out what that actually means. 
I have got some preliminary information that I just received. 
We are looking to finish this up in the next few months, and 
then I would be happy to follow up with you.
    Mr. Takano. You are monitoring? You know, my question is, 
what monitoring has occurred since then to validate that 
choice? Are you guys monitoring the situation?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, very closely. What we are seeing is that 
the data is telling us one thing. The anecdotal information we 
are hearing is telling us another. We have got more work to do 
to get this right.
    Mr. Takano. Okay. My final question has to do with we are 
hearing reports from advocates that there tend to be errors and 
delays for beneficiaries attempting to use Chapter 35 or the 
Fry scholarship if they also have GI bill eligibility from 
serving themselves or if it was transferred to them from a 
parent because of the individual having multiple files in VA's 
systems. Obviously, the confusion and delays can be extremely 
frustrating.
    Should VA move to a specialized group of claims processors 
to handle claims for Chapter 35 and Fry scholarship 
beneficiaries, which would reduce errors?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, Congressman, I would ask that if you have 
specific cases that you share them with me so I can look into 
them, and I would like to follow up and provide you a more 
informed answer. I am open to it, but I would like to better 
understand the issues that you are referring to.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    The Chairman. Dr. Miller-Meeks.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank our 
witnesses for being here.
    Dr. Upton, what steps are currently being taken to 
modernize CHAMPVA's claim filing system to prevent substantial 
delays in processing claims?
    Dr. Upton. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    As you know, CHAMPVA is a very important part of our 
commitment in VHA to honoring our family members, survivors, 
and caregivers. As this program has expanded, it has clearly 
shown us the need that we need to modernize based on feedback 
from the beneficiaries who use the system.
    To answer your direct question, we have heard very clearly 
that the process of submitting applications for eligibility is 
done solely in paper right now and requires time and reviews to 
process as well as beneficiaries when they submit claims 
directly, those have to come in paper as well. By the end of 
this calendar year, we are aiming to have an online form 
available for submission for eligibility as well as claim 
submission. We are also working extensively on modernization of 
the whole enrollment and eligibility process, and we will 
certainly keep you updated.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. How is the VA addressing the 
issue of, as a provider, the issue of prolonged payment delays 
to community providers under CHAMPVA, and what measures are in 
place to expedite these payments?
    Dr. Upton. Sure. Thank you.
    Yes, in order to manage this program and serve that 
commitment to the beneficiaries we serve, we have to be able to 
pay providers timely. It is something that is critical in order 
for providers to be open to see our patients, as well as for 
beneficiaries not to receive bills.
    What we have done in the CHAMPVA program is work to 
modernize how we process those healthcare claims from 
providers. Instead of having a human have to touch and review 
every claim, we are now auto-adjudicating 92 percent or more of 
claims that come to us electronically from providers, paying 
most of those within 30 days, often within 7.
    We know there is more work to do and continually want to 
reach out to our provider community to make sure we are paying 
timely and their questions are answered.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. if you are auto-adjudicating or using 
Artificial Intelligence (AI) to determine claims, can you also 
keep us updated on the percentage of denials?
    Dr. Upton. I would be happy to update you on the denials.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Given your answer to the first question 
about moving from paper applications to an online form, can the 
VA provide data on the average timeframe for resolving 
backlogged payments and applications and the steps taken to 
prevent, and I think you have already mentioned, to prevent 
such backlogs so that you can track before implementation and 
then after implementation?
    Dr. Upton. Absolutely. We will track that, and it is very 
important for transparency to you and those we serve.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Then we can follow up next year or the 
year after.
    Regarding the wrongful denials of necessary healthcare 
services, what is the VA's process for reevaluation of denials 
and recertification of such cases, and how can this process be 
made more transparent and accountable?
    Dr. Upton. Sure. For the bulk of CHAMPVA care, as opposed 
to other programs we run that provide care in the community, 
CHAMPVA typically does not require preauthorization or 
preapproval from VA. In instances where there is a denial or 
there is a payment that, you know, provider feels that should 
have been made, we have a contact center with representatives 
that can work with providers and beneficiaries.
    What we have noted as we work to modernize this system is 
that the beneficiaries that use this system could benefit from 
further coordination for their care with providers, especially 
in higher sensitivity or high-risk types of care. We are 
working on better coordination and putting a team in place that 
can help as the next phase of maturity in the system.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. You may have already answered this 
question, but very briefly, how does the VA plan to address the 
systemic administrative issues within CHAMPVA to improve 
overall integrity of the program and better serve one of the 
most vulnerable segments within the military community?
    Dr. Upton. Very important, and it is one that, you know, we 
want to do systemically from the start of beneficiaries 
learning about the program, from the enrollment process, 
through the payment, as you mentioned. Through the data we 
talked about earlier, as well as other steps, we are committed 
to transparency, listening to our beneficiaries, and working 
with this committee to make sure that you see what we see and 
we get it right.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Then Honorable Jacobs, in response to one 
of your answers to a previous question, you had mentioned that, 
to Ranking Member Takano, that the information you are 
receiving perhaps, and you are going to meet with TAPS or other 
organizations, that your responses have been very favorable, 
but you are hearing something different.
    Have you thought about doing a follow-up survey after 
people have reached out? Then looking at the follow-up survey 
to see if, in fact, and it could be randomized, done to see if, 
in fact, your services are reaching those or your outreach is 
beneficial.
    Mr. Jacobs. We are, and we are looking at it both from a 
qualitative and a quantitative perspective, because when you 
get quantitative surveys, you often are limited in terms of 
what you can glean. When you actually talk to individuals, you 
get a much richer perspective. That is what the survivor 
experience project is all about. It is why I have asked my team 
to follow up. I will be part of some of these conversations as 
well with organizations representing survivors.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Congressman Deluzio, you are recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Deluzio. Chairman, thank you. Good morning, everyone.
    Under Secretary Jacobs, I wanted to come back to something 
you had said, I think, in your remarks or questions with the 
chairman or ranking member about veterans being hesitant 
perhaps to apply for benefits. I just want to make very clear, 
and I suspect you agree, any veterans who is eligible or 
survivor or family, those are earned benefits and should not be 
shy about pursuing them and applying for them. Thank you for 
reinforcing that message.
    I want to focus on pension poaching. As I understand, and 
the scam can take or the scams can take many forms, typically, 
some version of an unethical advisor or attorney or someone 
presents themselves to a veteran or family and distorts their 
records or distorts what they submit to VA, might take out some 
fees in the process. That blows back eventually on the 
claimant, the veteran, their survivor, their family.
    Give me a sense what do these scams look like? How are they 
presented to the typical veteran or their family who is 
applying?
    Mr. Jacobs. Thanks very much. I am going to turn it over to 
Kevin in just a moment to speak to the details. We are very 
concerned about pension punctures and the increase of 
fraudulent and predatory activity that is targeting veterans 
and their families. It is one of the reasons why we started the 
Veterans, Servicemembers, and Families Fraud Evasion (VSAFE) 
effort, and there is a broader interagency effort to prevent 
and respond in cases where there is predatory behavior. Let me 
turn it over to Kevin to speak to some of the details.
    Mr. Friel. Yes, sir. As you stated, the predatory action is 
that they tell a veteran or a beneficiary that they would be 
entitled to veterans pension or survivors pension, that they 
could get them at the aid and attendance rate. Then what they 
would do is they would appoint or assign someone to be their 
in-home care attendant and, you know, charge them for it, but 
they would give them an upfront loan so they could actually pay 
for it, so that they could count that as a continuous medical 
expense for VA purposes. Then upon submission to the 
application, when they get a retroactive payment, they assume 
some of the retroactive payment to reimburse cost. You know, 
they would not charge them for doctors' visits, but then would 
add that on in the back end.
    We have taken some actions within our space on our form. 
Actually, it is annotated that you cannot be charged to file 
for a VA claim, initial VA claim. We have also put 
notifications on our website to identify about pension poaching 
and reporting them. We have worked with the Department of 
Justice (DOJ), their Elderly Justice Committee, and to bring 
that to light and to take actions there. There is a lot of 
ongoing behind-the-scenes action, but typically we do not find 
out until after it has happened, which is one of our burdens.
    Mr. Deluzio. I think of two big buckets of response. One is 
outreach and education for veterans and their families and 
survivors to understand the risks, to be able to detect if this 
is happening so they do not fall prey and they are not hurt. 
There is also an enforcement part of this. You mentioned the 
Justice Department. What does that look like? How are you 
working with DOJ? What other authorities, if any, does the 
Congress need to provide?
    I think we cannot just have the burden here fall on 
veterans and their families. When we have bad actors, we should 
go after them.
    Mr. Friel. Our work with the DOJ, it is actually an 
enterprise stood up with the DOJ, where it has numerous Federal 
agencies and it addresses issues related to elder abuse and 
taking advantage of elderly people. There is actually no 
actions that we could take out of that, you know, legal, but we 
are also restricted, you know, and we have had conversation 
with our Office of General Counsel, we are restricted in what 
we can do, you know, outside of a potential cease and desist, 
but we have no authority to support that.
    Mr. Deluzio. I would love to follow up with you directly 
about opportunities for us to more proactively respond to the 
scourge of pension poachers. Are there specific components 
within the Justice Department that are liaising with VA on this 
issue?
    Mr. Friel. I would have to take that back to get you who is 
all involved with that.
    Mr. Deluzio. Please do.
    Mr. Friel. Yes. More broadly, we are working with the 
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, with the Federal Trade 
Commission, with parts of DOJ, and we will get back to you on 
the specific elements for kind of a whole of government effort 
to tackle predatory actors in this space.
    Mr. Deluzio. Very good.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Representative Self, you are recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Before we can fix anything, we need to figure out why. You 
have got 27 percent backlog claims under the PACT Act. I 
understand from our last hearing that you are planning on now 
peaking at 600,000. Then you have got the 10 oldest survivor 
claims have been going on for 4 to 5 years.
    Can you talk to us about the why of both of these cases?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, we have identified, you know, some of the 
oldest claims, and each of those cases are unique. The bottom 
line is it is a priority to fix them, but there are a variety 
of solutions to each of those cases.
    Some of the reasons behind the timelines that you 
mentioned, they range from trying to address claims that were 
impacted by the fire and need to be fixed, to----
    Mr. Self. You are talking about the 1973 fire?
    Mr. Jacobs. The 1973 fire, where----
    Mr. Self. Really?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, there are issues where we are trying to 
pull together the rest of the record. There are issues 
associated with custody and in some cases involving homicide or 
murder, and working through kind of----
    Mr. Self. What have you done to--now that we know you have 
got 10 claims that are----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Self [continuing]. more than 4 years old. What are you 
doing today----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Self [continuing]. to get them adjudicated?
    Mr. Jacobs. What I have asked my team to do is to 
personally reach out to the 10 oldest claimants and figure out 
what we can do. They are all different. Some of the issues we 
are waiting for information, some of it is, you know, in some 
cases, we have identified information that was missed in an 
earlier review of the claim, and so we are backdating the 
effective date to give the most potential benefit. It is just a 
matter of handling them with a case management approach and 
with a sense of urgency.
    Mr. Self. I would like a detailed report on that----
    Mr. Jacobs. Be happy to.
    Mr. Self [continuing]. if you do not mind.
    Mr. Jacobs. Happy to.
    Mr. Self. I understand that VSOs file up to 90 percent of 
actual claims. What part do the VSOs play in education and 
filing survivors claims or helping you with them? It looks to 
me like VSOs are a critical part of initial claims. Are you 
using the VSOs to their full potential in survivors' benefits 
claims?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. Accredited representatives like VSOs are 
critical partners in helping us increase awareness and provide 
that connective tissue to help submit claims on behalf of both 
veterans and survivors. What I would tell you is I think we 
need to be doing a whole lot more.
    There is a knowledge gap that exists within the survivor 
community. In some parts, it is because they may have been 
disconnected from the military and veteran community. They do 
not know about these benefits. They did not serve themselves. 
We have got a responsibility, a moral responsibility, to do a 
better job of proactively and effectively reaching out to them.
    Mr. Self. I think the VSOs could help you with that because 
they are locally known.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Self. Last, I met with Jason Cave last week, and we 
were talking about folks getting into the system. I said, what 
is the single--and I am talking about your single point of 
contact now that you mentioned earlier. I am not sure that is a 
good idea because I said, what is the number and where does it 
go when someone calls the Dallas Veterans Integrated Services 
Network (VISN)? He said, oh, there are probably 15 numbers out 
there.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Self. I am not sure a single point of contact is the 
best way to go. Why would we not have a plethora of avenues 
into the system?
    Mr. Jacobs. Well, we do want--we want to make sure that 
there is no wrong door. I do think one of the things we are 
hearing from survivors is that they want a compassionate single 
point of contact to help them navigate through this. This is 
where our survivor experience effort is going to help us make 
sure that we are listening to the needs of survivors.
    We have the call center, the National VA Call Center, 1-
800-MY-VA-411 that allows calls to come in and then be moved to 
the appropriate business unit. We have regional offices. We 
have medical centers, we have cemeteries. All of those 
opportunities, all of those entry points should enable the 
survivor to connect with his or her benefits.
    You are right, it is more complicated and more nuanced than 
that.
    Mr. Self. It is far more complicated. A single point of 
contact is a single point of failure.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Representative Brownley.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I wanted to talk a little bit more about CHAMPVA. I have 
introduced legislation that would bring the age limit up to 26 
that was set by the provisions of the Affordable Care Act. This 
is important, obviously, to survivors, particularly for 
surviving children who are not going to college. What would the 
VA need to be able to handle this increase in care recipients?
    My understanding is that there is a cost, certainly, but 
not an astronomical cost. I want to know why the VA really has 
not tried to move on this.
    Dr. Upton. Sure. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    You know, supporting the dependents who use CHAMPVA is so 
important to us. Right now children or dependents 23 and under 
account for about 176,000 of our total enrollees in CHAMPVA. As 
you mentioned, currently CHAMPVA will cover dependents up to 
age 18 or through age 23 if they are a full-time student, but 
not age 26, as with many other health plans through the 
Affordable Care Act.
    Ms. Brownley. That is what my bill says.
    Dr. Upton. Yes, and still.
    Ms. Brownley. I am very familiar, so.
    Dr. Upton. Yes. From our perspective, it would require 
legislative change, as I know you are aware, Congresswoman, and 
resources, as you mentioned. We would be very happy, I would 
personally be happy to work with you and the committee on steps 
to better align us with the Affordable Care Act and that age 
26.
    Ms. Brownley. Very good. I will follow up with you on that.
    I also wanted to ask with regards to the letter that 
survivors receive, the VA summary of the benefits that is in 
that letter does not provide an itemized list of compensation 
that a survivor is receiving. Survivors only see a lump sum of 
the DIC payment. This, I believe, limits their ability to 
understand if they are receiving all the benefits for which 
they are eligible and/or when benefits might end.
    Why does not the VA provide an itemized list? VSOs have 
been asking this for years.
    Mr. Jacobs. I think it is a great idea. It is actually 
something that we were talking about earlier this morning, 
specifically about this. This is where that human-centered 
design research is going to be really important for us.
    I think there is benefit. I think what we just have to do 
is to kind of explore the feasibility and what steps have to be 
taken. I think inserting additional complexity always creates 
risks, but those are risks that we can manage and execute 
toward.
    I think increasing the utilization and the utility of the 
information we are sharing is important. They know if a 
survivor's beneficiary ages out of the program and is no longer 
eligible, they understand why the level of compensation may 
change. I think that is really important.
    The bottom line is we need to do a better job of listening 
to survivors. That is what this survivor experience effort is 
intended to address. It is issues like this as well as tackling 
things like our forms. Right? We know that the plethora of 
benefits that we provide are wonderful, but there are varying 
eligibility requirements. Anyone who has dealt with a 
government form knows how frustrating it can be.
    We need to figure out, how can we simplify, how can we 
streamline, how can we do everything we can to make it easier 
to apply for and access these benefits while maintaining our 
requirements under law?
    Ms. Brownley. Well, it seems pretty simple to me that the 
VA, in order to write this letter to survivors, they have to 
come up with an itemized list, add it all together, and that is 
the lump sum of what you are sharing with the recipient. I do 
not understand why it is complicated to just----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Ms. Brownley [continuing]. put down the itemized benefits.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. I think in some cases we are dealing with 
antiquated legacy systems that make what should be a simple, 
easy-to-do task more complicated and challenging than it 
otherwise would make sense. I would be happy to follow up with 
you personally to talk about that along with our Information 
Technology (IT) partners.
    The bottom line is, I am committed to doing this. We just 
have to figure out how to best do that.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. I hope it happens sooner versus later.
    You mentioned the forms that one must fill out, so I wanted 
to ask you why the DIC form is 20 pages long. What is it in 
that form that requires 20 pages? Correct me if I am wrong, but 
my understanding is it is 20 pages long.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Ms. Brownley. What is it----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Ms. Brownley [continuing]. in that form that you need in 
order to secure the benefits----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Ms. Brownley [continuing]. that requires 20 pages?
    Mr. Jacobs. Congresswoman, I would tell you I share your 
frustration, and I do not think it is acceptable. That is why 
we are actively working to meet with groups to talk through how 
we can streamline it. Let me turn it over to Kevin to talk 
through some of the specifics that are in the form and how we 
are thinking about tackling that.
    Mr. Friel. Yes, Congresswoman. One of the issues with the 
length of the DIC form is that it is actually an application 
for DIC survivor's pension and accrued benefits. By law--and a 
claim for DIC is a claim for all those benefits. We have to try 
to collect as much information as needed within that form to 
make an informed decision.
    We are looking at opportunities. We have a regulation that 
we are considering to see if we can streamline it somewhat. To 
your point, yes, ma'am, we all agree that it is long. We just 
have to come up with a way that within the law, within the 
structure of the law, to be able to streamline it to make sure 
we get all the required information.
    Ms. Brownley. I hope you will continue to work on that.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Franklin.
    Mr. Franklin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, 
gentlemen, for your time with us here today.
    We obviously know how important this is. I appreciate all 
the work you all are doing. The reason we have these oversight 
hearings is how can we assess how we are doing, take kind of a 
snapshot, and how can we get better. Hope, you know, you can 
take everything you get from us here today in that spirit, and 
it is all about the veterans and how we can make things better.
    Mr. Jacobs, you referenced earlier that there are a number 
of ways that people like to be communicated with. Some do not 
want to be called at all. I know as far as making survivors 
aware of the benefits that are available to them, there is an 
online survivors toolkit, I guess. There is a form letter that 
is sent out.
    How else do you communicate with them? Is there anyone that 
actually makes active phone calls to the people you have in 
your data base?
    Mr. Jacobs. In some cases. You know, so I was up in our 
Providence regional office, and we have a Gold Star Mother up 
there who works for the VA regional office, and she actively 
engages with the survivor community. We have employees who have 
lost loved ones and are now dedicating their lives to helping 
others behind them.
    Yes, we have employees who actively engage with survivors 
communities. We work through our partners.
    Mr. Franklin. That is anecdotal, though. Some are doing 
that, but that is not part of the process.
    Mr. Jacobs. It is part of the process. I mean, we do. I 
think we need to do it more and more consistently.
    I would also say we work with the groups like TAPS to try 
to get information out. It is why we hold survivors forums. We 
do not have the Solid Start idea. The idea that I think 
Chairman--or Congressman Takano was mentioning this idea, it is 
something, you know, I think it is a very interesting idea. 
Want to look at the resource requirements and how you might 
effectuate that and how that might lay up against other ideas.
    The bottom line is I think we need to do more, and we need 
to do more because there still remains an incredible 
information gap and an awareness gap amongst too many 
survivors.
    Mr. Franklin. That leads to another question I have. Is 
there any measurement, any way to quantify the number of people 
who are eligible for benefits that just do not ever--that you 
do not connect with, either because they are not proactive or 
they have fallen through the cracks? Do you have any sense of 
it?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Franklin. You got to know, potentially, what your 
exposure is. How many people could we be helping and how many 
are we?
    Mr. Jacobs. We currently are serving about 600,000 
survivors right now, give or take. The challenge for us is 
that, you know----
    Mr. Franklin. Well, how big is the pool of who could and 
should be helped?
    Mr. Jacobs. Do you know the number there?
    Mr. Friel. No.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. The challenge for us is understanding that 
is difficult. When a servicemember passes away while in the 
military, the military and those services know who has died.
    In our case, we do not have that control and command, so we 
do not have that same visibility. This is where I think 
creative ideas like working directly with funeral homes and 
finding other ways to capture that information is going to be 
important because we have limited visibility on the total 
population, the total potential population.
    Mr. Franklin. Okay. We only have a little bit of time here, 
but we have heard about some significant delays in 
discontinuing DIC when a spouse remarries or when a child turns 
18. How can we address these better to avoid these clawback 
situations where people are overpaid benefits and then 
suddenly, you know, sometimes long after the fact, they are 
told that they have got to come up with a lot of money that 
they did not know they were receiving incorrectly? To me, it 
puts an unfair burden on folks because of administrative delays 
within the VA.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, I think it is really important. We are 
trying to do everything we can to minimize overpayments and 
reduce the debts that are created as a result. Let me turn it 
over to Kevin to talk to some of the specific steps that we are 
taking.
    Mr. Friel. Yes. One part is that will play a very important 
role in this will be the Cleland-Dole Act, which will limit how 
long VA can work a claim or have a claim where the debt 
continues to accumulate. We are working on the implementation 
of that and that, you know, will help reduce the overpayment if 
it takes us----
    Mr. Franklin. Can you detail that a little bit more?
    Mr. Friel. Yes.
    Mr. Franklin. Is there a cap in on how much could be clawed 
back or is there a time limit on how long those can accrue 
before they are expected?
    Mr. Friel. That is what we are targeting, is a time limit 
on how long a claim can continue to accrue a debt once VA has 
it in its possession, once VA knew or should have known about 
it. That is one of--you know, part of the debt comes with the 
timeliness of notification, how long it takes someone to let us 
know that they have divorced or, you know, they are recently 
remarried. Then within our claims process is the other side of 
it.
    The Cleland-Dole Act, once, you know, we can get the 
implementation piece, it will restrict how long VA can continue 
to accrue debt on an individual based on our timeliness.
    Mr. Jacobs. We are working to make those definitions right 
now. We are working on regulations that would provide that 
timeliness.
    Mr. Franklin. Is there a timeline you are looking to have 
that settled by?
    Mr. Jacobs. I think, in this calendar year. We have draft 
instructions that allow us to kind of do it for a year, kind of 
cap it at a year. We are looking at kind of a program-by-
program approach that was done so we could utilize that 
authority immediately. We are taking a much closer look right 
now for the regulation.
    Mr. Franklin. Okay. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Budzinski.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I was hoping to ask the VA today about just some concerns I 
have for survivors as far as support for affordable housing in 
particular. When a veteran passes away, that surviving partner 
then immediately is incurring, obviously, the cost of mortgages 
and rents and utilities, and how that might be contributing to 
an increase in homelessness for surviving partners.
    I point out the dependency and indemnity compensation 
benefit is limited to 43 percent of what a survivor's 
disability compensation would be. Survivors may have to wait 
upwards of 4 months to receive those benefits, obviously 
further exacerbating this concern and issue around affordable 
housing. I really feel like we need to be doing more to address 
this for surviving partners.
    My question is for Mr. Jacobs. What does the VA currently 
do to help veterans financially prepare for the income change 
to their family when they pass away? Where might the VA be able 
to do a better job to prepare the families for that change?
    Mr. Jacobs. Thanks very much for that question. You are 
right about kind of the level of support.
    I think one of the things that we are trying to do is get 
information out well in advance of veteran's family's time and 
need. One of the challenges is trying to navigate benefits like 
housing and income change in the immediate aftermath of a loved 
one's passing, dealing with an overwhelming amount of grief, 
trying to take care of children, trying to take care of the 
immediate affairs. We do have benefits associated with the Home 
Loan Guarantee Program where we can help survivors.
    I think we helped about 3,000 surviving spouses last year, 
but I think there is a lack of awareness that that program 
exists. It provides competitive finance rates for surviving 
spouses, but we need to get more because our tools are somewhat 
limited in that space. That is why we are doing this proactive 
outreach regarding end-of-life benefits to make sure that all 
of the suite of services are available and understood before 
the time of need.
    Ms. Budzinski. Could you maybe further elaborate then on 
maybe what the VA has seen with these surviving spouses? Just 
like statistics around the financial impact of what it means 
immediately after a veteran were to pass away, just, you know, 
statistics, I guess, that you have observed from surviving 
partners.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. I will have to come back to you with more 
statistics on the specific details, but what I would say is 
what we have heard from individual survivors is just the 
incredible stress. There is a lack of awareness, there is 
confusion about what benefits they may be eligible for, how to 
access those benefits, whether they are even eligible in the 
first place. I think we are starting at a deficit. They are 
dealing with an incredible amount of grief, and on top of that, 
trying to navigate a system that is entirely too complex.
    Now, we have got the Survivor's Journey Map. You know, some 
of the things we see is, you know, becoming aware of benefits, 
just being informed it is table stakes. It should be basic, but 
it is not something that we can take for granted because far 
too many people just do not know.
    Ms. Budzinski. Right, right. Is there something that VSOs 
and Military Service Organizations (MSO)s can be doing 
additionally, in your opinion, to assist?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. One of the things we always share our 
information about benefits, about how to access those benefits 
with our VSO/MSO colleagues. Continuing to get the word out is 
really, really important.
    One of the things we find, so, for example, in our 
Transition Assistance Program classes, our transitioning 
servicemembers are going through a lifechanging experience, 
leaving the military. They are being asked to absorb a day's 
worth of information about all VA benefits. It helps to have a 
family member there.
    Just as we are trying to get words with our partners and 
the VSOs to those veterans, trying to include families is 
really important, because oftentimes the veteran himself or 
herself may know about the benefits, but his or her loved one 
may not.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay, great. Thank you.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Representative Van Orden.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I got to say something real quick, Mr. Jacobs, in reference 
to Ms. Brownley's question where you said that there is some 
legacy systems that are impeding your ability to contact 
people. You can literally buy a Commodore 64 and have dial-up 
Internet to send an email, so that is a horrible excuse.
    I have a list of 16 different VSOs here: Air Force 
Association, American Legion and Vets Association, United 
States Army, Disabled Veterans of America, Enlisted Association 
of the National Guard, Gold Star Wives of America, Iraq and 
Afghanistan Veterans of America, Jewish War Veterans of 
America, National Guard Association of the United States, 
National Organization of Veterans Advocates, Paralyzed Veterans 
of America, Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors, Vietnam 
Veterans of America, the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) Wounded 
Warrior Project. If you add the County Veteran Service Officers 
in there, there are 17.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. How much Federal funding do these guys get?
    Mr. Jacobs. I am guessing none.
    Mr. Van Orden. There are very rare instances where they get 
money. Check me on that.
    You have a $3.9 billion operational budget and you have 
25,000 employees. If I took half of your operational budget, 
which would be $1.95 billion, and I divided that by the 3,069 
counties in the entire Nation, we could put nine GS-12s in 
every single county of the entire Nation. I do not know why you 
have all this money if you are depending on these people to do 
the preponderance of your work.
    Mr. Jacobs. Sir, first of all, let me try to clarify what I 
said earlier. I am not making excuses.
    Mr. Van Orden. I get it. I know, I get it.
    Mr. Jacobs. Listen----
    Mr. Van Orden. I have heard you say it a thousand times, so 
let us cut to the quick, pal. My question to you is, would you 
support Federal funding for these VSOs?
    Mr. Jacobs. I would be happy to talk to you about that. I 
say we have relied very heavily on them, and----
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes, you do.
    Mr. Jacobs [continuing]. talking through the----
    Mr. Van Orden. You rely very heavily on them. I do not know 
how heavily you rely on the 25,000 employees that you are 
responsible for.
    Let me ask you a real simple question. How much did it cost 
to produce that Survivor's Journey Map, that chart? That fancy-
looking, awesome thing that nobody can read, how much did it 
cost to produce that, manhours, salaries, retirements, 
conferences, operating costs?
    Mr. Jacobs. You know, sir, I would be happy to provide that 
to you. What I would tell you is we are delivering more 
benefits to more survivors. We had an 18-1/2 percent increase 
in the number of new DIC survivors benefits that we delivered 
last year. We delivered 17-1/2 percent more dependent 
educational assistance benefits.
    Mr. Van Orden. Sir, I read your written testimony----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Van Orden.--in detail and it is lacking because you 
have, again, a $3.9 billion operational budget. You employ 
25,000 people and you still depend on these volunteer 
organizations that are funded by our membership costs. That is 
completely and wholly inexcusable. This is a failure of the 
grandest proportion. For you to come here and blow off my 
colleagues, Democrat and Republican, by these gobbledygook 
answers that mean absolutely nothing are silly.
    Check this out. Pepin County, Wisconsin, 7,318 people are 
there. There is a veterans population of 549. They are only 
able to afford one part-time veteran service officer because 
they get $550 from the state of Wisconsin. Okay. That is 
unacceptable.
    We take half your budget. There is nine full-time GS-12s 
working in Pepin County. To me, that is a judicious expenditure 
of taxpayers dollars. Your Department is not.
    I am going to ask you again, would you support funding 
these County Veterans Service Officers (CVSO)s with Federal 
money?
    Mr. Jacobs. I would be happy to talk to you about working--
--
    Mr. Van Orden. That is not an answer.
    Mr. Jacobs. Sir----
    Mr. Van Orden. I have 1 minute and 10 seconds left. Just 
say yes or no.
    Mr. Jacobs. Sir, I would be happy to----
    Mr. Van Orden. You do not know. Okay. Here is what I want 
from you. Please write this down. I want a detailed troop to 
task. Do you know what that means?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. I want to know what these 25,000 people are 
doing every day. I want to know what they are doing. I want 
your travel budget to include your hotels, air, rental cars, 
per diem, and the budget for all these conferences that you 
hold. I want an itemized list of all those things because you 
are absolutely blowing money in a way that is not commiserate 
with helping our veterans in the most efficient manner. You 
cannot argue that.
    Mr. Jacobs. Sir, I would----
    Mr. Van Orden. You have said that 50 times today.
    Mr. Jacobs. Sir----
    Mr. Van Orden. We need more. We need to do better. Better, 
better, better.
    Mr. Jacobs. Sir, I would have to respectfully disagree.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Respectfully disagree. What I just 
stated was a fact.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. For the last 3 years in a row, we have 
delivered more benefits to more veterans' survivors than ever 
before.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Then why did you say that you have to 
do better a thousand times? I can pull up your testimony 
because it is recorded.
    Mr. Jacobs. We wake up every day, and the most dangerous 
words in any large organization is that is the way it is always 
been done. We are not accepting that as an answer.
    Mr. Van Orden. I understand.
    Mr. Jacobs. What we have identified is there is an unmet 
need in this space.
    Mr. Van Orden. Sir, my time has expired. I want the answers 
to those questions that I gave to you because I chair the 
subcommittee that is responsible for the Transition Assistance 
Program and for these educational benefits, and you will be in 
front of my subcommittee answering these questions. Is that 
clear, sir?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much.
    I yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Landsman.
    Mr. Landsman. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Jacobs, 
your team, for being here and all the work that you do on 
behalf of veterans and survivors, just trying to be as helpful 
as possible to folks back home.
    If you were a constituent of any of ours and you were 
setting out to determine what benefits you might be eligible 
for as a survivor, what would you do?
    This is not a gotcha question. This is sort of, let us try 
to be as informative as possible. You are as close to it as 
anyone. How would you approach it and what advice would you 
give to folks who are trying to determine eligibility?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, I would start by going to the website to 
understand what benefits may exist and understand what 
eligibility requirements exist. I may call the contact center 
to ask an employee. I may walk into a regional office or I may 
pick up the phone and contact the county VSO, an accredited 
representative like the American Legion, Disabled American 
Veterans (DAV), or VFW, or work with an organization like TAPS. 
Oftentimes you might find a friend or a loved one who is also a 
survivor and ask them.
    Mr. Landsman. Can you list again the top benefits that 
folks are entitled to that are eligible for?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. Disability and indemnity compensation. 
there is survivors pension, there is home loans, a variety of 
life insurance programs, education benefits. There are 
healthcare and bereavement services and burial and memorial 
services as well.
    Mr. Landsman. Let us say you hit a snag in this process and 
you are trying to determine eligibility. Maybe you have gotten 
on the phone, one, having done the journey map, and talked to a 
lot of survivors. What are the top two or three snags and how 
would you recommend people work through those?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, one of the things we talked about, the 
length of the forms, the applications, and so maybe I do not 
fill it out correctly. Having someone to help you, you can call 
up the regional office, you can work with a VSO. That tends to 
be one of the biggest challenges. You know, the biggest snag is 
just lack of awareness, so understanding what you are 
potentially eligible for to start with.
    Mr. Landsman. For congressional offices that have 
caseworkers that work on these issues, that is a pretty good 
place to go if you hit a snag, right?
    Mr. Jacobs. Absolutely. I spent 10 years in working in 
Congress, and so I know the importance of the casework function 
for members.
    I would also say in addition to helping those individual 
survivors and veterans and taking care of their specific needs, 
I think it is also a good source of information for us. You 
know, this is a large organization, 600,000 survivors, about 6 
million veterans that we serve. We know things are not always 
going to work as they should. Getting that intel and being able 
to differentiate between what is an isolated issue and perhaps 
a systemic issue is really important for us.
    Mr. Landsman. I appreciate that and appreciate the way in 
which you have approached some of these questions and this 
mindset of continuous improvement and appreciating the fact 
that you all have served more veterans, more survivors. Excuse 
me. However, you got to get better every day. There is so much 
on the line.
    To that end, when I Googled the website, just thinking to 
myself, if I were in one of these awful situations, and you 
talked about the stress and the grief, the confusion, you 
Google the website, you get online, it gives you a sense of 
what you might be eligible for in that there are categories. I 
did not see, and maybe I just missed it, a way in which you 
could just fill something out, something pretty basic that 
would allow, A, you all at the VA to capture my information, to 
let you know that I am looking, and to determine for me, you 
know, if I might be eligible.
    We had this program in Ohio, it was called the Ohio 
Benefits Bank, where everyone, the VSOs, in this case 
nonprofits, they would be able to sit down, a simple platform 
that allowed people to say, here is my situation very clearly. 
Then it would say, you may be eligible for X, Y, Z, so on and 
so forth. Then all of a sudden, the conversation started to 
materialize, and things happened much more quickly.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. We actually have a draft quick eligibility 
quiz for survivors benefits. This is not something that we have 
distributed, but it is a prototype that we have developed that 
we are working to verify and validate it as part of this 
survivor experience project, and it is something that we are 
actively looking to do.
    Mr. Landsman. That, to me, would be very, very helpful if 
we can get it online and make it so it is super easy for folks 
to fill out and immediately know if they might be eligible and 
you all immediately know that somebody is engaged in trying to 
determine eligibility.
    With that, I yield back. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Representative McGarvey.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Jacobs, thank 
you for your testimony.
    I do think it is at least encouraging to hear about the 
many programs and all the benefits that are available to 
families of servicemembers. However, I, too, share the concerns 
you have heard about the low uptake, the underutilization of 
these benefits, particularly the survivors benefits across the 
different administrations of the VA. Something is not working, 
and we hear about this all the time. It is lengthy 
applications, delayed appeals, complex eligibility 
requirements, lack of clear, consolidated information.
    When you talk to people going through this, they are 
frustrated, and it is so easy to see why. In fact, I mean, I 
understand why people sometimes give up during this process. 
That is a problem, and that is on the good side. That is if 
they know there were benefits in the first place, not enough 
know that the benefits are even available.
    We need clear, simple, easy, effective outreach, easy 
applications, automatic enrollment in these types of things. It 
sounds like the Office of Survivor Assistance is working hard 
to engage survivors through email and phone lines, outreach 
events, community partners, and more, but it is still not 
working. I think that is my takeaway from a lot of the 
experience here.
    My question to you is, what will the strategy be to test a 
variety of engagement practices to see what works best and what 
results in increased uptake within the VA's administrations? 
How you all are actually testing this, actually using evidence-
based decision-making, not just checking the box saying, hey, 
we are working with VSOs or working with community 
stakeholders, when we do not even really know what that means, 
because, again, the numbers show something is not working. How 
can you guys start to do a better job of figuring out and 
testing these methods?
    Mr. Jacobs. Well, I agree that there are many more 
survivors that we need to reach to both make aware of these 
earned benefits and to connect them to these earned benefits 
and the support. I think that the strategy starts by actively 
seeking out feedback from our customers and survivor community. 
That is what we are doing to update the survivor experience 
effort. Then understanding because what we have been doing has 
not enabled us to meet as many survivors and serve as many 
survivors as we think are out there, figuring out how we adapt 
our approach.
    This is not a situation where we are coming from D.C. and 
saying we are here to help. We are actively trying to target 
our solutions based on the feedback that we are hearing because 
the efforts that we have done to date, you know, whether it is 
through the emails, the outreach engagements, the collaborative 
efforts, they are not enabling us to meet and serve the 
survivors that we think could benefit from the support system. 
We need to actively hear what are the things that we can do 
better and design our solutions around that feedback.
    Mr. McGarvey. Again, I appreciate that. It is still not an 
answer I can put my finger on----
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. McGarvey [continuing]. and say what you guys are doing. 
You know, one thing I know in any job, in this job and the 
private sector jobs we all had before doing this, or public 
service jobs, you can get in silos.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. McGarvey. We have seen some more successful outreach 
happening with the PACT Act recently, and maybe there is some 
lesson learned from that.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. McGarvey. How is the VA internally sharing some of 
these lessons about how we are reaching out to our veterans? 
Again, asking for concrete answers here.
    Mr. Jacobs. Sure. One of the things that we are looking to 
do is we have what are called Veteran Engagement Action 
Centers. These are outreach efforts where we bring the entire 
Department together to allow for, in most cases, veterans and 
survivors to come and ask questions about benefits, about 
healthcare, about cemeteries.
    We are looking to do something targeted specifically to 
survivors where we can allow for survivors who are already 
accessing the system but may not have considered another 
benefit or have questions about a pending claim to come in and 
get help, or for those survivors who have not yet engaged with 
VA to come for the first part. Looking to proactively design 
that and then reach out to the community to bring them in to 
better support them.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am out of time. I 
just think there is a really great opportunity here for us to 
begin thinking of different things and using evidence-based 
decision-making so we can put our finger on what is working and 
what is not working and how we help our vets.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Before we release the panel, I 
just got one quick question here. When will the eligibility 
quiz, it was made from the 2019 VO surveys study, survivor 
study, be implemented?
    Mr. Jacobs. We should finish up the entire survivor 
experience process in the next few months and then make a 
decision as part of that with the quiz. The goal is what we 
want to----
    The Chairman. I thought that was done already in 2019.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes. My understanding, I was not here at that 
point, I think they put it on hold as a result of COVID. I do 
not fully understand the decision-making by kind of the 
previous leadership. What I will tell you is we are working to 
revalidate the findings and then want to send that out.
    The thing that we just want to be careful about is, as we 
have that eligibility quiz, is we make sure we do not leave 
anyone with the impression they are eligible for something that 
they are not. Making sure that we are tailoring and designing 
in a manner that is appropriate.
    The Chairman. Well, thank you for being here, Mr. Jacobs, 
Dr. Upton, and Mr. Friel. Thank you for your testimonies today 
and you are excused.
    Now we are going to try to seat the second panel, if we 
could, please.
    [Recess]
    The Chairman. All right. I would like to welcome the second 
panel today.
    I am going to tell you something. You know, I do pronounce 
names fairly well and butcher them occasionally, but I am 
telling you that this--trust me, I am going to do the best I 
can with every one of your names. Okay?
    Okay. First we have Ms. Gabriella Kubinyi. Is that all 
right? Kubinyi. All right. Ms. Kaanan Mackey-Fugler. Okay. Then 
we have Ashlynne Haycock-Lohmann. We have Ms. Kelly Hruska.
    I would like to recognize myself to introduce Gabriella 
Kubinyi. There you go. Her husband, Petty Officer Second Class 
Jeffrey Ferren of the U.S. Navy tragically passed away at the 
age of 31 while serving on active duty. She has since dedicated 
herself to serving the veterans and their survivors, including 
with organizations such as Veterans of Foreign Wars and the 
Gold Star Wives of America.
    We want to honor you for that. We welcome you here today to 
share some important perspectives that you have lived through. 
You are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                 STATEMENT OF GABRIELLA KUBINYI

    Ms. Kubinyi. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and 
members of the committee, on behalf of the men and women of the 
VFW and its auxiliary, thank you for the opportunity to provide 
our remarks on issues related to military and veteran 
survivors.
    The VFW has long advocated for an increase in benefits and 
services for family members who have sacrificed alongside of 
their loved ones in support of service in the United States 
military. As a member of the VFW Auxiliary, a member and now 
president of Gold Star Wives of America's Arlington chapter, I 
have made it my mission to support and advocate for survivors. 
My employment as an accredited veteran service officer and 
caseworker for the VFW was instrumental in providing me the 
means and resources to help survivors access their benefits and 
maneuver the VA system.
    I became a military widow on April 2, 2012, when my 31-
year-old husband, Petty Officer Second Class Jeffrey Ferren, 
suddenly died due to an undiagnosed heart condition. We were 
high school sweethearts living in Chesapeake, Virginia, where 
he was stationed for duty with the United States Navy. Nothing 
can prepare a person for the pain and confusion that comes with 
the loss of a spouse.
    When a veteran dies, VA needs to be informed of the death 
and then will attempt to contact the spouse or dependents, 
informing them that they can apply for benefits. This is key: 
the survivor has to apply for benefits. They are not automatic.
    The most important thing VA can do to prepare survivors is 
to talk openly about the fact that veterans' compensation ends 
the day they die, period. Veterans and their spouses need to be 
informed that they may be eligible for DIC. The loss of income 
is usually a surprise for survivors. It should not be. Every 
family should be fully aware that when a veteran dies, whatever 
benefits they are receiving from VA will end. This way they can 
then make decisions based on that fact.
    After my husband died, I decided to pursue continuing my 
education at American University. The only VA education benefit 
available at that time for survivors was the Dependent's 
Educational Assistance, DEA. While the funding was helpful, the 
total amount of assistance I received that semester was less 
than the cost of 1 month's rent.
    Years later, I decided to pursue a master's degree at 
George Washington University. By this time, the Fry scholarship 
existed and if it were not for that, I would not have been able 
to afford the master's degree I recently completed this past 
May.
    After losing my husband, I moved back to my parents' house 
in Teaneck, New Jersey. I eventually started going to 
counseling at the Secaucus Vet Center. My therapist had also 
been a military spouse and her husband was a disabled veteran. 
The work we did together resulted in my applying to graduate 
school courses and making the move to Washington, D.C., where I 
knew one person, someone I had met through TAPS. There is no 
way that I would have had the courage and ability to move 
forward with my life had it not been for that therapist at that 
vet center.
    After moving to D.C., I went to the local D.C. vet center 
and was assigned a female therapist as requested. After some 
time together, my weekly sessions were reduced to every other 
week. I was told this was because the vet center was trying to 
accept more patients. Then I received a call from my therapist 
letting me know that she would have to discontinue our 
sessions. She said survivors were short-term vet center 
customers and that my time had expired.
    Now, once this was brought to the attention of the VA 
Headquarters staff, my therapist called back to let me know 
that I could continue therapy with no time limit. I was told 
that this was a policy misinterpretation by middle management 
and that corrective action would be taken.
    A month later, my therapist quit. I decided I would wait 
for another female to be hired so I would not have to switch 
providers over and over. It is now 2 years later. I have not 
had any counseling since.
    Year after year, the VFW and advocates like me ask Congress 
to improve on a variety of survivor issues, and legislation is 
drafted, but never receives the needed votes to enact the 
significant changes. I strongly urge this committee to find 
pathways necessary to make sure that survivor benefits are 
taken seriously and not pushed off again for the next Congress.
    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, thank you for the 
opportunity to share my testimony today. I look forward to any 
questions you may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Gabriella Kubinyi Appears In The 
Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Next I would like to recognize myself again to introduce 
our second witness, Ms. Mackey-Fugler. She is a surviving 
spouse of Staff Sergeant Matthew Mackey, who passed away after 
an accident during active duty. She is also a mother of five 
Gold Star Children. She is a tireless advocate for military and 
veteran survivors community, including the Tragedy Assistance 
Program for Survivors. We are grateful for Ms. Mackey-Fugler 
that she has traveled all the way from Louisiana to be here 
today.
    With that, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

               STATEMENT OF KAANAN MACKEY-FUGLER

    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. Thank you Chairman Bost, Ranking Member 
Takano, and distinguished committee members. I thank you for 
the opportunity to share issues and challenges surviving 
military families face accessing our benefits to the Department 
of Veteran Affairs.
    My late husband, Staff Sergeant Matthew Mackey, served in 
both the Marine Corps and the Iowa National Guard for nearly 
two decades. We had 12 years together, but spent nearly 10 
years of that time separated by training, schools, or 
deployments.
    In 2010, Matt died as a result of an accident, and I was 
left alone to raise our five young children, who were between 
the ages of 2 and 11 years. I watched, heartbroken, as my 9-
year-old son ran out of the room bawling, wanting to know who 
was going to teach him to be a man.
    Matt did not want me to spend my life alone or for our 
children to grow up without a father figure. In 2017, I was 
lucky enough to find somebody who was honored to take on that 
role in my now husband, Josh. Josh was willing to wait the 
extra 24 years until I turned 20--or until I turned 55. It was 
important for us to show my children that love and morals were 
more important than money.
    When Matt died, I was repeatedly told that it was a debt 
that could never be repaid. Losing my survivor benefits when I 
remarried feels as though our country is saying the debt is now 
paid in full. As I stopped grieving Matt or the challenges of 
living this life, raising our kids without him just disappears.
    People are not replaceable. A piece of paper will never 
change that I am Matt's widow. It just means that I am also 
somebody else's spouse now. It does not wipe away the 12 years 
I spent sacrificing my own career while Matt served, nor the 13 
years after his death I have spent raising our broken family.
    Though I utilized my education benefits, the gaps in my 
education and my employment are going to impact my earning 
potential for the rest of my life. My survivor benefits help 
not only offset my husband's income, but my loss of my own 
income as a result of our military life.
    I face many challenges as a surviving spouse, but even more 
so as a remarried surviving spouse. My remarriage created two 
files within the VA since I remarried a disabled veteran: one 
under Matt and another under Josh. When I remarried, I reported 
to the VA within 30 days of receiving my marriage license. I 
was told it would take 8 to 12 weeks for my benefits to be 
turned off. I then spent the next 7 months making phone calls, 
sending faxes, getting TAPS involved, even a congressional 
inquiry. I did everything short of closing my bank account to 
stop my benefits.
    Nearly 10 months after I remarried, my DIC finally stopped. 
I then received my debt letter for over $12,000, which I 
disputed. Five years later, I sat before the Board of Veteran 
Appeals and shared these challenges. 2 months after that, I 
received a letter stating that my debt was forgiven.
    These are just the obstacles that I experienced as a 
surviving spouse. My children have faced many of their own 
challenges. For example, when surviving children turn 18 while 
they are still in high school, they are required to submit VA 
Form 21-674 60 days before their birthday. Our children are not 
filing new claims, but continuing their eligibility while they 
are still in high school.
    Unfortunately, VA has not developed a way to process these 
claims in a timely manner. My four young adult children have 
all been through this process, and each one faced a completely 
different barrier to ensure their DIC continued. It took 5 
months for Alexis, 7 months for Chloe, and 9 months for John. 
John was actually in college and out on his own before his case 
was rectified, yet we were told that he did not meet the 
criteria for a financial hardship. Our son Aiden's paperwork 
was submitted this past August, and we are still waiting for 
his DIC to be reinstated.
    In addition, our children are only paid DIC through the 
month they graduate high school, even though VA policy states 
that they can receive this benefit until they begin utilizing 
education benefits. None of my children have ever been paid 
past their graduation months.
    In closing, I would like to restate how grateful I am to 
testify before you today, because many of the issues that I 
have raised today, Congress has the power to fix in a single 
comprehensive bill. Passing Love Lives On Act will allow 
surviving spouses to remarry before the age of 55 and retain 
their benefits, and this would eliminate many of the 
challenges.
    In reference to the VA Form 21-674 issue, I am confident 
the VA could update their processing procedures to make this 
transition less complicated for surviving children. In 
addition, allowing DIC to be paid to our surviving young adults 
through the summer after graduation would eliminate any gaps 
that could cause undue hardship.
    I thank you again for the opportunity to share my 
experiences with you and look forward to answering any 
questions you may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Kaanan Mackey-Fugler Appears In 
The Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Next we have Ashlynne Haycock-Lohmann, director of 
government and legislative affairs for the Tragedy Assistance 
Program for Survivors.
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

             STATEMENT OF ASHLYNNE HAYCOCK-LOHMANN

    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, 
and distinguished committee members, the Tragedy Assistance 
Program for Survivors is grateful for the opportunity to 
testify today on behalf of the over 120,000 surviving families 
TAPS is honored to serve.
    I am the Gold Star daughter of United States Army Sergeant 
First Class Jeffrey Haycock, who died while training to deploy 
in 2002, and Air Force veteran Nichole Haycock, who died by 
suicide in 2011. I personally understand how life-changing our 
VA benefits are to our surviving families.
    Our TAPS written statement highlights many of the most 
common challenges survivors face in accessing benefits, but I 
will focus my comments on just a few. The most crucial is for 
our surviving children. If a surviving child turns 18 before 
graduating high school, dependency and indemnity compensation 
should be paid to the child until they graduate. This is not 
happening.
    TAPS has consistently raised this issue with the VA over 
the past 5 years. Unfortunately, the VA has yet to develop a 
way to process these claims in a timely manner, leading to 18 
months and longer delays in payments for all of these students. 
These should be easy supplemental claims, but every child has 
experienced a delay in payment due to a lack of a reasonable 
process for these claims. Many of these surviving children give 
up after years of trying and never receive the back pay they 
are owed. We appreciate Under Secretary Jacobs and his team 
working to identify a permanent solution.
    In addition, not only is DIC supposed to be paid until a 
child graduates high school, they should receive DIC in the 
months between graduation and starting college. Despite this 
being the law, students are not paid during the summer months.
    TAPS recommends a process for students to submit a single 
school certification form that will generate into the national 
work queue. Additionally, the VA Education Office should be 
required to notify the Pension Management Center of a surviving 
child's enrollment and education benefits so Pension can 
release those additional funds. Under the Forever GI Bill, all 
Fry-eligible children whose loss occurred on or after January 
1, 2013, or who turned 18 on or after that date should not have 
a delimiting date. Yet nearly half of the certificates of 
eligibility TAPS has seen this past year still had one.
    TAPS recommends moving all Chapter 35 and Fry scholarship 
claims to one Regional Processing Office (RPO) with specialized 
claim processing to reduce errors and ensure consistency and 
certificates of eligibility.
    When an active duty servicemember passes, the Department of 
Defense reaches out to the family, guiding them through 
available benefits and programs. The VA lacks a similar 
capability as it does not track family members who are not 
currently receiving benefits, which is the case for most 
survivors.
    Additionally, non-active duty surviving spouses are 
expected to navigate the same entry points as veterans, such as 
the VA's general helpline. During their initial call survivors 
often receive inaccurate information or are told they are 
ineligible for benefits. This leads to survivors hesitating to 
return to the VA for assistance.
    TAPS recommends creating a separate VA entry point for 
survivors and an 800 number specifically for surviving families 
to ensure they receive adequate support and accurate 
information.
    The VA's Office of survivor Assistance would be the logical 
entry point, but far too many survivors do not even know it 
exists. Currently, OSA only has three staff members to support 
over 465,000 eligible survivors. TAPS recommends permanently 
moving the Office of Survivor Assistance into the Office of the 
Under Secretary of Benefits.
    OSA has also been treated as if the only benefits survivors 
receive are compensation. Currently, OSA staff only have access 
to DIC and pension, therefore, are unable to assist with 
survivor issues like burial, education, healthcare, life 
insurance, and homelands. TAPS recommends expanding OSA's 
access to information to include all survivor benefits.
    The limited awareness among survivors regarding OSA 
highlights the need for VA to more effectively communicate and 
promote this survivor program to bear on its sacred mission to 
fulfill President Lincoln's promise to care for those who have 
served in our Nation's military and their families, caregivers, 
and survivors.
    Every year the VA sends letters randomly asking survivors 
if they have remarried. Surviving spouses are required to send 
them back, confirming their marital status. The VA then 
terminates DIC when they do not receive those letters, usually 
because the survivor never received it to begin with.
    VA does not consistently send their remarriage letters, so 
survivors are not proactively expecting them. The only way for 
a survivor to know if VA received their return letter is if 
they stop receiving DIC. If VA turns off their benefits, it can 
take months for them to turn back on.
    Additionally, when a surviving spouse remarries under the 
age of 55, they are legally required to notify the VA. VA 
states its processing times are 8 to 12 weeks, but the reality 
is more like 6 to 18 months. Survivors often have to make 
multiple calls and resend paperwork before being informed that 
their file has not even been reviewed. Because these survivors 
are being paid when they are no longer eligible, they are then 
sent debt letters and expected to pay back the benefits 
immediately.
    TAPS recommends passing the Love Lives On Act, which allows 
our surviving spouses to maintain benefits upon remarriage at 
any age and would alleviate many of the challenges our 
surviving spouses currently face.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I look 
forward to answering your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Ashlynne Haycock-Lohmann Appears 
In The Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Finally, we would now recognize Ms. Kelly Hruska, 
government relations director for the National Military Family 
Association.
    Ms. Hruska, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF KELLY HRUSKA

    Ms. Hruska. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and 
distinguished members of the committee, the National Military 
Family Association (NMFA) would like to thank you for the 
opportunity to present testimony today on supporting America's 
surviving military family community.
    The VA provides surviving family members with an annual 
summary of benefits letter that indicates the amount of 
dependency and indemnity compensation the survivor should 
receive. Not only does the letter provide important information 
for the survivor, but the letter may be used in applying for 
benefits, such as housing entitlements, state and local 
property tax relief, or any other verification of VA benefits 
that may be required. This letter is an official record of the 
survivor's VA entitlement.
    Unfortunately, we have heard from surviving spouses that 
they do not receive this important letter. The Veterans Benefit 
Administration must ensure that the summary of benefits letter 
is sent to all beneficiaries annually.
    Not only are all surviving family members not receiving 
this summary of benefits letter, but the information included 
in the letter is broad and may not be relevant to the surviving 
family members. For example, the VA benefits information does 
not provide an itemized list of compensation. The DIC is 
presented as a lump sum. If the surviving spouse is receiving 
an add-on to their DIC, that add on is included with the DIC 
payment. The lack of itemization leaves many surviving spouses 
wondering if they are receiving all of their benefits and that 
may be unprepared when temporary add-ons that they are 
receiving, such as child allowances, aid in attendance, or 
household payments, are maybe ending.
    Our office receives several phone calls a month from 
surviving spouses asking us to help verify that they are 
getting their VA benefits. If the letter were more specific, 
surviving families would not have to guess or rely on outside 
organizations for verification.
    Counsel and advice on a continuing basis should be 
available to surviving family members. The surviving family 
will have questions as the years go by and their needs change. 
The young widow with a toddler has too many immediate concerns 
to think about a child's college education 15 years from now. 
However, the family will be looking for information at that 
time about those benefits. Will they be able to access the 
information and advice in an easy manner with someone who is an 
expert in the benefits for families? Will they walk into an 
office where the counselor is more familiar with VA health 
benefits than they are for benefits for surviving family 
members?
    The surviving spouse needs information unique to their 
family and not a cookie cutter, one-size-fits-all answer. 
Entities that provide this type of survivor-focused service 
used to exist. Having an office in the Department of Veterans 
Affairs or an organization now that could provide advice and 
assistance would be very helpful to surviving family members.
    The VBA has done a great job developing online resources 
for surviving family members. However, when considering how 
information is shared, it is important to keep in mind the 
needs of the population being served. Unfortunately, not 
everyone has access to online resources. Many of our older 
surviving spouses, the 41.1 percent of surviving spouses over 
age 75, may not use or do not have access to a computer.
    The VA needs to meet surviving family members where they 
are. The VA needs to deliver information in different ways for 
surviving family members to get accurate information from 
trustworthy services. Dedicated phone lines and trusted 
individuals to review benefits and help in applying for those 
benefits would fill a deepening gap.
    The Office of Survivor Assistance was established by Public 
Law 110-389 on October 10, 2008. The legislation directed the 
Secretary of Veterans Affairs to establish the office in the 
Department. Congress intended for OSA to serve as the primary 
advisor to the Secretary on all matters relating to policies, 
programs, legislative issues affecting survivors. The committee 
expect that by placing the office under the Department, vice 
the Veterans Benefit Administration, the full spectrum of VA 
benefits and services would be addressed. This office would 
allow for specialized expert staff to provide internal policy 
guidance and oversight of benefit for survivors.
    NMFA advocated for the establishment of OSA and attended 
the first working group meeting. We were hopeful the office 
would serve as a dedicated resource and advocate for families 
that Congress intended.
    However, recent events leave us concerned. Despite the 
specific language of the law, OSA has moved twice in recent 
years. First, in February 2021, OSA was shifted to the Office 
of Outreach Transition Economic Development; June 2023, OSA was 
again moved, this time to the Office of Pension and Fiduciary. 
This reorganization appears to remove its intended role as 
primary advisor to the Secretary. The law has not been changed 
to permit these changes. NMFA believes these moves undermine 
the responsibility and authority of the original mission of the 
office to oversee and protect the well-being of survivors.
    Thank you for the opportunity to share our thoughts on the 
VA's programs and services for survivors. We appreciate the 
committee holding this hearing to discuss the oversight of 
these important issues and we look forward to your questions. 
Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Kelly Hruska Appears In The 
Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you. I recognize myself for 5 minutes 
of questioning.
    Ms. Kubinyi, could you compare the level of assistance 
received by survivors of servicemembers who pass away in 
service with the level of assistance provided by VA to the 
survivors of veterans who pass away after their service?
    Ms. Kubinyi. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Active duty survivors are assigned a Casualty Affairs Calls 
Officer (CACO) for the Navy. That is a person who leaves their 
job, whatever it is, and they are assigned to the survivor for 
however long they need them, weeks, months. My CACO actually 
drove me to the VA office, walked in with me and helped me, sat 
right next to me, fill out all of the forms and give them to 
the VA employee. The CACO helps with all of the paperwork.
    When your husband drops dead in front of you, your brain 
stops working for a while. I was very lucky. I had two of my 
best friends who made it to Norfolk before the Navy got my 
parents there. They sat between me and the CACO. They looked at 
all the paperwork before they looked at me and said, okay, we 
understand this, sign this.
    If you are a survivor of a veteran, if nobody knows, nobody 
helps. My dad's a disabled veteran. He will probably not die 
from what he is disabled for. My mom will not be entitled to 
any survivor benefits. My mom also married him after he served. 
He has gotten only help from the VA very recently. She has no 
idea about VFW, about Gold Star Wives, about any of these 
organizations because my dad was never involved in them.
    It is vitally important that we reach the people who are 
not involved with the VSOs. The VSOs have service officers, the 
VSOs have auxiliaries. They have survivors who are able to 
help, and they are an amazing community. If you are active in 
your post and the veteran dies, there are people there who are 
friends who help, who also are trained. That is one of the 
magical things about VSOs, is the community it provides and 
then continues to provide with VA accredited help.
    If you are not part of those organizations and you know 
nothing about them, how would you ever go to them? When my 
husband died, he died at home, like stateside. I never even 
thought call the VFW for help. It never even crossed my mind. 
It was not until I moved to D.C. that I learned about what all 
the VSOs do, and I was an active duty spouse.
    It is a vastly different level of care and support that 
active duty survivors receive versus veterans.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Ms. Mackey-Fugler, can you 
elaborate on how challenging it was for your children to access 
DIC after you remarried?
    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. Thank you, Congressman.
    It was very difficult for my kids to access their DIC after 
I remarried. I think the process stemmed from having to wait 
until my benefit was shut off for theirs to begin. When I ended 
up with the debt letter, it was my debt because it was their 
payment for that timeframe.
    Then we go through where I am not even considered their 
parent anymore. I am considered their fiduciary. How terrible 
is that to have to hear as the only living parent that the only 
concern that anybody has for you is the financial well-being of 
the money that they are given as a death benefit? That is 
terrible.
    That is one of the big problems with getting remarried that 
I wish I knew before I did because it is caused many issues 
regarding my child's healthcare. I know in my written 
statement, I wrote about my 9-year-old being diagnosed with 
type 1 diabetes in an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) room and no one 
would speak to me. I had to sign a form giving myself 
permission for them to speak to me on my 9-year-old's behalf 
because I am not considered her parent anymore. I am just her 
guardian. It is absurd, the whole process of that.
    The Chairman. I do not have time to get another question 
in, but I will go ahead and turn over to the ranking member.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I just want to acknowledge all of your journeys. Very 
moving testimony by all of you, and your resilience is 
inspiring and I am also inspired by your courage. You are all 
leaders in your own way, making meaning out of the loss of your 
loved one by taking up this cause. I just want to acknowledge 
that and thank you for being here.
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann, as I mentioned in my opening 
statement, I will be introducing a bill to create a program 
similar to VA's Solid Start program, where survivors are 
contacted multiple times in the year following the death of 
their loved one to ensure they know about benefits they might 
be eligible for and how to apply for them. Do you feel that a 
program like that might be beneficial? Would you recommend the 
Office of Survivor Assistance to be the appropriate office to 
provide this service, assuming it has the resources and staff, 
which the bill also seeks to address?
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann. Sure. We generally are very supportive 
of the Solid Start bill. We support increasing the staffing. We 
support increasing the resources. We do want to make sure that 
as long as they are doing that outreach, that we are also still 
making sure that they are supporting the survivors that are 
coming to them, as that seems to be a current challenge.
    Then as for the demographic information, we support 
gathering additional demographics. One thing we would flag is 
that VA does not currently track cause of death, so we would 
love to see that as an addition to data that is being tracked.
    Mr. Takano. Great, great feedback and great suggestions.
    Ms. Hruska, the honor in our PACT Act provided eligibility 
for surviving spouses to access benefits as their veterans' 
toxic exposures are now being recognized. However, the PACT Act 
approvals for survivors seem to be lagging behind, which speaks 
to an outreach problem.
    Can you speak more about the need for outreach to survivors 
as they are accessing benefits they might soon be eligible for, 
as well as the need for continuing outreach throughout the 
lifespan of survivors?
    Ms. Hruska. Thank you, Congressman Takano.
    I think it is important that VA not just depend on VSOs to 
do outreach to surviving spouses, but they look at this as a 
whole of government effort. Utilizing, where are those touch 
points that other Federal agencies are interacting with 
survivors, maybe such as the Social Security Administration, 
and so using those opportunities to communicate with everyone 
that those benefits could be available and here is where you 
would go to access those benefits or to check eligibility.
    Mr. Takano. How about a proactive outreach campaign, 
meaning a campaign that seeks to reach survivors before they 
are in a position of being survivors, I mean, while the spouse 
is still alive, making that couple and that family understand 
more about these benefits, how might such a proactive outreach 
campaign improve the lives of survivors?
    Ms. Hruska. Well, it would definitely make them more aware 
of them, so that, as both Gabby mentioned, that, you know, when 
it happens, you are in shock. If they are proactively 
knowledgeable, then it is not so much of an information dump, 
and they can know who to outreach to to get those or access 
those benefits.
    Mr. Takano. It certainly would help make more 
understandable the stakes of remarrying and that sort of thing 
if they were to understand how these benefits work, I would 
assume.
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann, you have highlighted processing and 
claims adjudication issues for beneficiaries attempting to use 
Chapter 35 or the Fry scholarship, especially when the 
beneficiary also has GI Bill eligibility from serving 
themselves or if it was transferred to them from a parent 
because the individual has multiple files in VA systems. I can 
certainly sympathize with the frustration the Gold Star 
families' experience from the confusion and delays these mix-
ups cause.
    Should VA move to a specialized group of claims processors 
to handle claims for Chapter 35 and Fry scholarship 
beneficiaries? Would that reduce errors, do you think?
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann. Yes, we strongly believe that we 
should relocate Fry and Chapter 35 to one of the RPOs and very 
specialized claims processing. A good example of that is that 
all active duty DIC claims were moved to the Philadelphia RPO, 
and it has massively reduced the challenges and errors we saw 
for those claims.
    We think that the biggest challenge is that there is 
inconsistency in the certificates of eligibility that are 
coming out. There are a lot of cases where there should not be 
a delimiting date on them, and we are still seeing that fairly 
consistently across the board. If we can help make sure that 
the claims processors who are specifically processing those 
claims are incredibly knowledgeable about the very nuanced 
technicalities, it would reduce overall errors.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you so much.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Self, you are recognized.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You have changed my 
second line of questioning.
    I think most of you heard that I was asking about the VSOs 
in our first panel, but, Ms. Kubinyi, are we talking about 
surviving spouses, veterans that were receiving VA benefits 
because you said they are not involved with the VSO community, 
but they were receiving VA benefits?
    Ms. Kubinyi. I was more referring to spouses who are not 
involved with VSOs.
    Mr. Self. Right.
    Ms. Kubinyi. They are not necessarily--their spouse may be 
receiving VA disability or any of the benefits that are 
available, but they may not even know that there is a DIC 
after.
    Mr. Self. Understand. You are a representative of one of 
the major VSOs. How many are we talking about? What do you 
think?
    Ms. Kubinyi. That do not know?
    Mr. Self. Yes. Surviving spouses of veterans that may not 
either be capable or do not know about benefits. What is that 
universe?
    Ms. Kubinyi. I could not put in a specific number on that, 
but I would be willing to say, from the work I have done at VFW 
and the older, specifically older, survivors who would call in 
shock, in dismay of what the benefits were, which led me to 
believe they had no idea what was coming. It was a significant 
amount of the older, like, 70-plus survivors. Again, I cannot 
put an exact number, but it is not one or two.
    Mr. Self. Anybody want to take it? No? Okay.
    I want to also ask you about you are not a parent, but a 
guardian. Is that an official designation?
    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. Per policy between VA and DOD, I am 
either considered a guardian or a fiduciary for my children. I 
am in all pieces of mail, I actually have a whole binder here 
of what it is like going through the VA process and having 
children, it states that I am a fiduciary taking care of their 
financial needs.
    Like I mentioned, I had to fill out basically a Health 
Insurance Portbility and Accountability Act (HIPAA) form to be 
able to talk to TRICARE to find out how to take care of my 
daughter while she was in ICU.
    Mr. Self. Okay. Let me ask it a different way. What rights 
do you know that you have lost as a parent?
    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. We actually have a piece that was in 
National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) last year, I believe, 
regarding the electronic access for my children. I do not have 
electronic access to any of my children's benefits. I am no 
longer privileged to that information. Apparently, upon 
remarrying, I am, I guess, not trustworthy enough to have 
access to personal information about my children on the Defense 
Manpower Data Center (DMDC) website or on their e-benefits 
website.
    My adult children cannot even access their own information 
right now on e-benefits or use their ID Me to log in and 
certify enrollments that they have changes because that is done 
through their dad's ID card. It is all my children's benefits 
that they are entitled to that they are not really able to use 
because I do not have access to that.
    Mr. Self. Do you still have children at home?
    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. I still have one minor child at home.
    Mr. Self. Do you have say so over healthcare for your minor 
child?
    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. Yes, after I sat in a hospital room 
while she was in ICU and filled out a HIPAA form, I do have 
access to her healthcare by the telephone.
    Mr. Self. Do you have authority over her healthcare?
    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. Yes. We have to use a lot of 
preauthorizations and things for her medications. We have to do 
all of that through the mail or through a phone call. Anything 
that is authorized for her, I have to wait for that to come to 
my house through snail mail before we know whether it is been 
approved or not to take care of a portion of her healthcare.
    Mr. Self. Okay. Does anyone else want to comment on that 
same question? Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann. I would just add that she does not 
have access to the electronic medical records piece. She can 
call and send in forms, but she cannot access any of the online 
piece of it. While we did technically fix that in the 2022 NDAA 
for the TRICARE piece, DOD has yet to implement this, even 
though it was supposed to be effective immediately.
    Ms. Hruska. Sir, I would just like to mention that she has 
to jump through all of these extra steps that any other family 
would not have to, and that is just not acceptable.
    Mr. Self. Is that because you remarried? Is that what you 
are saying? It is because you remarried?
    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. Yes, sir. It is completely because I 
remarried, making me no longer my deceased husband's dependent 
in these systems.
    Mr. Self. Thank you. Very enlightening.
    I yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Brownley.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I certainly wanted to associate myself with Mr. Takano's 
words. Thank you for being here. Recognize your resilience and 
your courage for being here and thank you for trying to pave 
the way for, sadly, future men and women who will be in your 
situation who will have lost their spouse. I really do thank 
you for being here.
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann, I wanted to ask you, you know, I have 
this bill on CHAMPVA to extend access for healthcare to 26 
years of age. I am just curious to know of sort of the cases 
that you go through and so forth. Do you hear this a lot? 
Particularly children who graduate from high school and do not 
go on to college, I think they are still covered until 23, but 
still. Can you talk about that a little bit?
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann. Sure. Unlike even TRICARE, where there 
is an ability for the families to pay for that service until 
the child is 26, there is none of that for CHAMPVA. Once they 
are cutoff, they are cutoff. One of the things that we see most 
consistently as a concern with that is access to mental health, 
especially for our surviving children. Making sure that as, you 
know, you are turning 18, graduating high school, that is a big 
transition, and it is also an incredibly big transition when 
you are grieving the loss of a parent, and so making sure they 
have access to that continued mental health care, especially if 
they maybe take a gap year or take time to, you know, figure 
out what they want to do, because the last thing we also want 
to do is see our survivors waste their education benefits 
because they feel they have to enroll to maintain health 
insurance because they do not have even an option to buy it. It 
is one of the things we see consistently.
    Our biggest concern has been access to mental health care 
for these transitioning children.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you for that. Ms. Mackey-Fugler, you 
talked about all of the trials and tribulations with your 
children and receiving DIC benefits. At the end of the day, did 
they get their payments retroactively?
    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. Each of my children have received their 
payment after they graduated high school. All of my children 
have had months of process where they had no payment at all. In 
one of my child's cases, he was actually denied his education 
benefit, first because they claimed that his father was not 
deceased. Then it was because his father did not die in the 
line of duty. Finally, the third time they got it right and 
gave him his benefit.
    That is detrimental for an 18-year-old to open a letter for 
their, you know, Fry scholarship that is supposed to send them 
to school and hear that they are denied because their dad is 
not dead. I mean, how terrible to deal with those emotions. 
That is really why we really would like to automate the 
Certificate of Eligibility (COE). I do not think that is a 
difficult thing to do. I know they do it on the survivor 
benefit plan side through DOD for our kids. Every July, they 
send in their form, and we have no problems with benefits on 
that side getting turned off, waiting months to get those 
benefits. It is within the month that is taken care of.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you. Ms. Hruska, you mentioned a couple 
of things in your testimony that I wanted to follow up with you 
on. You talked about the OAS moving and has moved several 
different times since its inception. I think you mentioned 
something about the law does not allow that movement. Or did I 
understand you correctly?
    Ms. Hruska. The law was very specific as to where the 
Office of Survivor Assistance should be located and the reasons 
why.
    Ms. Brownley. In other words, the VA is not following the 
law.
    Ms. Hruska. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you. You also talked about access to 
website and access to knowledge about what benefits surviving 
spouses have, and you sounded pretty complimentary, except for 
those who do not have access, which I completely understand.
    Is it true that one can go to a website, a VA website, and 
go to one place to find out what all of the benefits are for 
surviving spouses?
    Ms. Hruska. The VA website does have those benefits. I 
think Ashlynne mentioned in her written testimony that the 
websites sometimes are not as updated as they should be, but 
the information is there, and, you know, they give you a number 
that you can call. The problem is that some people who are 
maybe more comfortable using the web might think, well, this is 
the information, and so take, you know, what they are seeing at 
its face value.
    You do have access to forms and so, you know, in that 
respect, it is great, but the web pages could be updated more 
frequently.
    Ms. Brownley. Understood. Well, just, you know, for the 
record, I am happy to hear that because for most cases with 
regards to benefits for veterans, they have to search all over 
the website to figure that out. I am happy to hear, at least in 
this case, they are all in one place. I do recognize your 
testimony around access to that technology.
    With that, I yield back. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Van Orden.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to 
congratulate you in putting together a panel with the most 
difficult to pronounce names I have ever seen. I mean, it is 
remarkable. If I butcher these, please forgive me.
    Ms. Kubinyi and Ms. Mackey-Fugler and Ms. Haycock-Lohmann, 
I want to thank you for coming up here today. It takes real 
courage. It does.
    Do we have any more Gold Star spouses in the crowd back 
here? All right. Thank you very much.
    I have had about 50 of my friends killed since 9-11 in 
training in combat, and what you said means something to me. 
This is not a debt that gets repaid. It is not a mortgage. You 
wanting to remarry and start your life again should not be 
penalized. It just should not. What a better way to raise 
children than in a stable nuclear family? That is just junk, 
and we got to get rid of that. Absolutely.
    I am the chairman of the subcommittee that is in charge of 
Chapter 35 in the Transition Assistance Program. We are looking 
at the TAP program itself to make sure our curriculum is 
meeting some type of need.
    Clearly, Ms. Hruska, your comment about a young widow with 
a toddler is not thinking about college 15 years later is 
absolutely spot-on. We need to do something to be able to track 
these things.
    Your suggestion of contacting the Social Security 
Administration I think is a lot better than trolling funeral 
homes, as was brought up in the previous panel. I do not know 
how that would work. Cold-calling funeral homes and asking if a 
veteran died recently, I think that is patently absurd.
    Because I am responsible for that in the subcommittee, you 
are going to hear something out of a government official that 
you are never going to hear: I am taking personal 
responsibility to make sure that we get this going. Okay? If 
you have any issues at all, I want you to reach out directly to 
my office because these benefits are earned, and they are 
earned in the most horrific way of losing your spouse. I do owe 
you a debt, and I will repay it. That is all.
    I will yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Representative Mace.
    Ms. Mace. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I want to 
thank all of you and everyone who is in the audience and the 
panel up here today. I cannot imagine how difficult it is if 
you have lost a spouse and the impact it is had on your 
children, how difficult it is. It takes a lot of courage to 
come up here, to come up to D.C., and a lot of effort. The VA 
has so got it backward, and sometimes so does the DOD.
    I come from a military family. I graduated from the 
Citadel, and although I did not serve, my father spent 28 years 
in the U.S. Army serving his country, and he is fully disabled. 
He will likely pass away from one of his injuries that he 
continues to have chronic pain from. He had over 500 parachute 
jumps.
    I spent three tours of combat, two in Vietnam and one in 
the 1964 coup d'etat of the Dominican Republic. I have members 
of my family who are spouses. I have one who cannot get 
remarried because they are a cancer survivor. If they get 
remarried, they lose all of their TRICARE benefits.
    It is crazy to me to see that this is the way we treat our 
veterans and their spouses and their children.
    You know, so we live this in our family to some extent on a 
daily basis, and we have seen the impact that it is had, the 
negative impact. You know, Kaanan, I cannot empathize. We have 
not gone through that.
    I feel your pain as a mom and not being able to have access 
to your kids' records, especially digitally, when you should. 
It should be easy. If you did this in the private sector this 
way, the business would go belly up. To hear the story of DOD 
not doing what they have been told to do by law is deeply 
disappointing.
    I had a hearing on the Oversight Committee last year, and 
it was regarding just a $300 million software system the DOD 
was supposed to implement. We spent the money, it came time to 
implement, and none of the service branches were ready. That 
money just got entirely wasted. Imagine what we could have done 
with that for veterans and their families, right?
    In the remaining time that I have today, I did want to ask 
a few questions. Ms. Haycock-Lohmann, the first one to you. 
What sort of recommendations, solutions, ideas--and I am a 
small parts, big difference because so little gets done around 
here. It is mostly BS, but this is an area where I know that on 
both sides of the aisle, hearing from folks, Democrats and 
Republicans today, that we do want to work together in a 
meaningful way. What are some recommendations and solutions you 
might have?
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann. Survivors make up such a small 
percentage of those supported by VA that one of the things we 
do consistently see as an issue is that whether they call the 
call center or they reach out through official channels, 
oftentimes they are not educated enough on survivor issues to 
answer those questions. The more we can do to make sure that 
there are a small handful of people processing specific 
survivor issues, such as moving all of the Chapter 35 and Fry 
scholarships to one RPO or making sure that there is an 800 
number for survivors to call that can help answer those 
questions. We know it is not going to be a huge influx coming 
in, but it is making sure that when they do call, they have a 
place where they know they are going to get answers that are 
specific to survivors.
    We talked about the Office of Survivor Assistance, but they 
only have access to pension and fiduciary claims. They cannot 
help survivors with education, healthcare, life insurance, any 
of those things. Their process is to do one of two things: they 
either send them back to the VA's general helpline, where they 
once again are recirculated back into the community, or they 
refer them to organizations like TAPS, where our caseworkers 
step in and help the families with those issues.
    The more we can do to make sure that the people who are 
working with survivors directly have access and the ability to 
support our survivors and make sure they are getting accurate 
information, the better it will be for our survivors.
    Ms. Mace. Ms. Mackey-Fugler, is there anything you would 
like to add in terms of possible solutions or recommendations 
that might, in a small part, make a big difference in the lives 
based on your experience?
    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. Pass Love Lives On.
    Ms. Mace. What is that?
    Ms. Mackey-Fugler. Pass Love Lives On. It will fix a whole 
plethora of the issues that the surviving community faces and 
giving them the opportunity to choose how they move forward 
with their life without it being dictated by our benefits being 
dangled in front of us, having to make decisions that way.
    Ms. Mace. I want to thank all of you this afternoon for 
being here. I hope this will be a meaningful conversation. 
Again, this is an area where we can work together. This is not 
a partisan place, this type of issue. Please do stay connected 
with us and our staff and make sure that you hold us 
accountable. We say we are going to do something, make sure 
that we do it.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Ciscomani, you are recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all 
for being here and thank you for sharing your testimony. I 
think it is extremely important.
    My district, just for background, is in Arizona 6. That is 
in the southeastern corner of the state. I have two military 
bases in my district. I also have over 70,000 veterans in my 
district. This is an important issue for me and specifically 
the surviving spouse one is one as well that I became very 
interested in.
    I have a Veterans Advisory Council, and we have veterans 
from all branches and different variety of how long they have 
served and when they are retired. We have taken a serious focus 
on helping through our council as well. Their role is to advise 
me on the best approach and policy and so on, and to learn 
about the needs. The surviving spouse area has been one of the 
ones that we have been tackling more in depth recently, so this 
is very timely. I just met with them last week and we talked 
about this hearing. I have been looking forward to this meeting 
for a while.
    You know, when I learned that the Office of Survivor 
Assistance was relocated to the Office of the Secretary of 
Veteran Benefits Administration, reporting to a midlevel 
staffer with only three full-time staff, I was astounded by 
that. This office was created in 2008, as you know who, to 
serve as a principal advisor to the Secretary. This 
deprioritization blatantly skirts Congress' intent on the VA's 
mission, I believe.
    To help rectify this oversight, I was proud to work 
alongside Chairman Bost to ensure survivor issue. All issues 
always have a seat at the table by introducing H.R. 7100, the 
Prioritizing Veterans' Survivors Act, which once again places 
OSAs within the Office of the VA Secretary as intended, and 
thereby prioritizes the advocacy and services for our veterans' 
surviving spouses and families.
    My first question for you, Ms. Kubinyi, did I pronounce 
that? No? Yes. Okay. Feel free to correct me, please. You know, 
given your experience with different vet centers, what 
improvements would you recommend to ensure consistency in the 
quality of care and services provided to survivors across all 
locations?
    Ms. Kubinyi. The most important thing is to have full 
staffing of the vet centers. Vet centers are magical places, 
again, where veterans come and find a community. Survivors do 
the same. We might not be part of the groups, but it is a 
familiar place when we are surrounded by other people who have 
served. The most important thing is to fully staff every vet 
center.
    When you can go to a vet center, when you can call, because 
now we call directly to the vet center and have to go through 
the process ourselves, it would be very helpful if they were 
fully staffed and had room because grief is--the more you put 
it off, the worse it becomes. It is definitely not something 
that you want to wait years, you know, to deal with. That is 
sometimes--at least months was my experience of having to wait 
simply because there were not enough counselors there.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Yes. No, and I appreciate that perspective. 
You know, you said recently, I mean, just earlier today as 
well, the surviving spouse of active duty versus a surviving 
spouse of a veteran, I think that is why you bring such a 
strong perspective voice to the table. I appreciate you being 
here. Thank you for that.
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann, a quick question here as well. You 
mentioned that many survivors do not know that the Office of 
Survivors Assistance even exists. How would moving the OSA to 
the Office of the VA Secretary improve survivors' access to VA 
benefits?
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann. We are not as concerned about the 
location. Our official recommendation is to move it to the 
Under Secretary of Benefits because we think they could provide 
the structure and infrastructure we think OSA is currently 
missing. They are currently buried under Pension and Fiduciary, 
not even in the office of the under secretary.
    You know, it is more about making sure that they have the 
support and staff and ability to support our survivors and 
create that entry point for our survivors that we currently do 
not have.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Yes, that is a good point. That piggybacks 
off, obviously, what was just mentioned regarding the staffing. 
My next and last question, because of timing here, in your 
testimony you discussed the inadequate staffing and funding of 
the Office of Survivor Assistance. What sort of information can 
someone get from this office related to survivor education 
benefits? Also, do you feel that this office should be enhanced 
to provide more support for survivors?
    Ms. Haycock-Lohmann. We absolutely want to see OSA 
enhanced. Currently, they do not have access to education 
claims. If a survivor contacts them and asks about education, 
they send them either to the GI Bill helpline, which we worked 
with VA several years ago to design a specific number for our 
survivors. If they call 888-GI-Bill-1, I want to say it is 
number 5, it specifically takes them to somebody who can assist 
them with survivor issues.
    OSA will either send them there or they will refer them out 
to organizations like TAPS, who can assist the survivors with 
those benefits and have the ability to assist with education 
claims as part of our memorandum of agreement with VA.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you. I now recognize Ranking Member 
Takano for any closing remarks he might have.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I again thank 
you for holding a hearing on this very important topic, and I 
mean that. I want to thank again all you, all of the witnesses 
for being here today and to speak on this topic as well. I want 
to extend a special thank you to the survivors on the panel and 
the survivors in the audience and those who are here only with 
us in spirit.
    Now, your stories have demonstrated a level of bravery and 
courage equal to that of our servicemembers, and you deserve 
every ounce of our effort in creating a VA that is welcoming 
and accessible and every dollar of benefits that we can muster 
on your behalf. That is why I really feel compelled to point 
out the distinction between how the two different parties' 
representatives on this dais here are addressing the issue.
    Yes, this committee does endeavor to work on a bipartisan 
basis, but I have to point out the difference in approach thus 
far. Today, I have previewed for you a bill that puts new tools 
in VA's hands to aid them in reaching survivors where they are 
and better inform them of the benefits that they have earned.
    We have members like my colleague Julia Brownley, who is 
here just to the right of me, who has introduced legislation to 
extend CHAMPVA eligibility. Representative Jahana Hayes has 
introduced legislation to raise the levels of DIC benefits on 
par with other Federal survivors programs. That seems to be 
only fair.
    We have members like Dean Phillips, who has introduced the 
Love Lives On Act, which would address many of the issues that 
we have heard raised here about the consequences of survivors 
who remarry, and that will repeal the ridiculous penalties 
survivors face when they choose to remarry. It costs money, and 
we have to deal with it costs money, but we got to do what is 
right.
    This bill is not up for discussion here today. Soon we will 
have legislation introduced from my colleague, Representative 
Frank Mrvan, to increase benefits for those using Chapter 35 
education benefits, but making those individuals--and also 
making those individuals eligible for the more robust, 
comprehensive benefits equal to the Forever GI bill.
    I have to say, what is it that is being delivered today by 
my colleagues on the other side? A bill that does nothing more 
than fiddle around with VA's organization chart and does not do 
a single thing to improve or expand the delivery of benefits. I 
realize there is a controversy over whether the OSA belongs 
here or there, but I would suggest you settling for where it 
goes is really symbolic, and it does not really address the 
real issues that we need to address in order to get at why 
survivors continue to suffer needlessly.
    I am afraid, you know, what I see is a fear of taking real 
action, and that fear is about dealing with the real dollars 
that need to actually constitute that action. I would ask you 
not to just settle for something that fiddles with an 
organization chart.
    We have seen historically low levels of legislation to aid 
our veterans and their survivors pass this Congress. This 
majority professes to carry the torch for veterans, but they 
cannot muster the will to move the needle one single bit.
    I implore those watching today to not be fooled by window 
dressing. Instead, demand real, concrete action. It is what you 
deserve and is what I and my colleagues are fighting for on 
your behalf.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    I want to thank our witnesses for joining us here today, 
especially the witnesses who shared the personal stories and 
important insights about the challenges that they face after 
losing their loved ones. Ensuring access to benefits and 
healthcare for the loved ones of the men and women who are in 
uniform is no less important than caring for the men and women 
who serve. The debt we owe to the men and women who made the 
ultimate sacrifice extend to their families as well. We must 
ensure that VA uses the authority and budget Congress has 
provided to repay the debt to the veterans and their surviving 
families like yourself.
    I appreciate the Ranking Member Takano and all his members 
of this committee who stand with me in our bipartisan effort to 
do that. It is a bipartisan effort. Maybe he does not notice 
it, but anyway.
    I ask unanimous consent that all members shall have 5 
legislative days in which to revise and extend their remarks 
and include any extraneous this material hearing. No 
objections, so ordered. The hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:57 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]    
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                    Prepared Statement of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                  Prepared Statement of Joshua Jacobs

    Good morning, Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and Members of 
the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today 
to discuss the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) efforts to reach and 
support Veterans' survivors. With me today is Kevin Friel, Deputy 
Director, Pension and Fiduciary (P&F) Service, as well as Dr. Mark T. 
Upton, Deputy to the Deputy Under Secretary for Health, Veterans Health 
Administration (VHA).

Educating Service members on Survivor Benefits

    In many circumstances, VA's relationship with survivors begins long 
before they lose their loved one. The Transition Assistance Program 
(TAP) is an interagency program conducted by VA, the Department of 
Defense (DoD), and other federal agencies, designed to provide Service 
members and their families with information on benefits and services to 
ease their transition from military to civilian life. VA's portion of 
the week long TAP curriculum provides a full 1-day course outlining VA 
benefits and services not only for Veterans and their families, but 
also for caregivers and survivors. In addition to the information 
provided as part of TAP, VA developed the Survivor and Casualty 
Assistance Resources Military Life Cycle (MLC) module, which was 
launched in 2019, an online micro-learning course, that provides an 
overview of VA survivor benefits and eligibility, and what to do 
following a loss. No assessment responses were received from 
participants to provide feedback on the course in FY 2022. FY 2023 data 
is expected in March/April 2023. MLCs are online self-paced courses and 
can be accessed by Service members, Veterans, family members, 
caregivers, survivors, and other loved ones anywhere, at any time.

Support for Survivors

    In the event of a Service member or Veteran's passing, VA plays a 
vital role in supporting their survivors. In October 2008, VA 
established the Office of Survivors Assistance (OSA) in accordance with 
Public Law 110-389, 38 U.S.C. Sec.  321. OSA serves as a resource 
regarding all benefits and services furnished by VA to survivors and 
dependents of deceased Veterans and members of the Armed Forces. OSA 
also serves as a principal advisor to the Secretary of Veterans 
Affairs, working to promote the use of VA benefits, programs, and 
services to survivors while ensuring that they are properly supported 
as stated in VA's mission. In February 2021, OSA was moved under the 
Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) to better align OSA's work with 
survivors, outreach, and survivors' monetary benefits under the program 
office that has oversight of several benefit programs available to 
survivors.
    Over the years, OSA has built and maintained collaborative 
partnerships with local, state, tribal, and Federal agencies, as well 
as Veterans Service Organizations (VSOs), faith-based and community 
organizations, and other stakeholder groups to increase awareness of 
benefits and services available to surviving family members. OSA also 
advocates for the needs of survivors in VA's policy and programmatic 
decisions, makes appropriate referrals to VA administrations and staff 
offices to ensure that survivors receive eligible benefits and 
services, communicates with surviving family members in a proactive and 
timely manner, and develops innovative outreach opportunities to reach 
survivors who are eligible but are not receiving benefits.
    OSA works closely with VA's internal and external partners to reach 
survivors who may be eligible for benefits. This includes regular 
communications with VSOs, such as the Tragedy Assistance Program for 
Survivors (TAPS), the Elizabeth Dole Foundation, the National 
Association of State Directors of Veterans Affairs, and other survivor-
focused groups to discuss benefits, changes, and challenges. OSA serves 
as a representative of VA's Veterans' Family, Caregiver, and Survivor 
Advisory Committee, offering insight into survivor issues and 
challenges, and also provides discussion, training, and coordination 
with other VBA offices, VHA, and the National Cemetery Administration 
(NCA). There are four positions on the committee allocated for 
survivors;' one is a gold star mother. OSA works with other Federal 
agencies, such as the Department of Agriculture, the Department of 
Justice, and the Department of Homeland Security, to provide training, 
discuss benefits, and disseminate material about VA programs. Through 
OSA, VBA attends and participates in speaking engagements to share 
information on benefits for survivors at VSO National Conventions, to 
include the Legacy Six, Gold Star Mothers, and Gold Star Wives. 
Additionally, OSA coordinates weekly with our counterparts in DoD and 
individual service survivor programs, meets monthly with the Gold Star 
and Surviving Family Member Forum, and provides training to service 
casualty officers (U.S. Army, National Guard, Reserves, U.S. Air Force, 
U.S. Navy, and U.S. Marine Corps).
    As part of its stakeholder engagement, OSA has a dedicated email 
address (officeofsurvivors@va.gov) and phone number (1-202-461-9383). 
During Fiscal Year (FY) 2023, OSA received and responded to 9,214 email 
and phone inquiries from Veterans, survivors, family members, and 
caregivers about benefits and the status of their claims. During the 
same period, VBA's National Call Center received 758,104 survivor-
related calls. The top 2 primary requests were requests for assistance 
with a pending survivor-related claim (over 270,000 calls) and First 
Notice of Death (over 150,000 calls). The remaining calls were general 
survivor benefit-related calls. To ensure that the most up-to-date 
information is available to those who work within the casualty/survivor 
community, in FY 2023, OSA participated in 12 events with TAPS, Gold 
Star Wives, Gold Star Mothers, and other VSOs and held 7 Casualty 
Assistance Officer training events, 2 VA/DoD Survivor Forums, and 
numerous training events for other VA employees. The OSA Assistant 
Director also participates monthly with DoD in a Gold Star and 
Surviving Family Representatives meeting, and quarterly with the 
Casualty Action Board and the Central Joint Mortuary Affairs Board. 
These groups address survivor challenges from individual services and 
also discuss and resolve regulation and policy challenges related to 
active-duty deaths and the ensuing survivor-related questions and 
concerns.

Improving the Survivors Experience

    In keeping with their mission, in October 2023, OSA revisited an 
earlier collaboration with the Veterans Experience Office (VEO) to 
update the Survivor's Journey Map. During findings for the initial 
journey map in 2019, VEO found that speed and efficiency are valued by 
survivors during claims processing, while having a dedicated and 
informed advocate would greatly improve the survivor experience when 
completing the sometimes confusing and/or overwhelming application for 
benefits. The Journey Map highlights ``life stages'' survivors may 
encounter, from preparing with their Veteran to the end of their own 
life, as well as ``moments that matter'' aligned to each life stage. 
Similar to Veterans, not all survivors are the same, but there are a 
broad set of shared moments that matter, which are a point in the 
survivor journey that stand out to many survivors. Using the refreshed 
journey map as a guide, VA will plan and design better experiences for 
our Veterans' survivors.

VA Benefits Available to Survivors

    VA plays a key role in providing monetary benefits to survivors in 
the form of non-service-connected survivors pension, dependency and 
indemnity compensation (DIC) and burial allowance, and transportation 
expenses. VBA's P&F Service is responsible for oversight of these 
monetary benefits.
    Survivors pension is a benefit that provides monthly payments to 
survivors of Veterans who meet certain wartime service eligibility 
requirements, and who have income and net worth within certain limits. 
VA completed over 20,000 claims for survivors pension in FY 2023. VA 
also administers DIC, which is a monetary benefit paid to eligible 
survivors of military Service members who died in the line of duty or 
eligible survivors of Veterans whose death resulted from, or was 
contributed to by, a service-related injury or disease. VA completed 
over 51,000 claims for DIC in FY 2023. VA also pays these benefits to 
the survivors of a Veteran whose death is not service-connected but who 
was rated by VA as being totally disabled due to a service-connected 
disability for a specific period immediately preceding death. 
Additionally, VA provides burial benefits for Veterans, which are 
payable to individuals or professionals with a relationship to the 
Veteran who are paying for the burial or funeral costs and will not be 
reimbursed by any other organization. VA completed over 145,000 claims 
for burial benefits in FY 2023.
    VA has seen an increase in receipt of DIC claims since the passage 
of P.L. 117-168, sec. 1(a) at 136 Stat. 1759, the Sergeant First Class 
Heath Robinson Honoring Our Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics Act 
of 2022, known as the Honoring Our PACT Act (PACT Act), which was 
passed on August 10, 2022. The PACT Act was a comprehensive bill to 
address the health impacts of those who served overseas and were 
exposed to hazards such as burn pits, radiation, and Agent Orange. This 
legislation expanded VA benefits eligibility for many Veterans and 
their survivors.
    Beyond expanding benefits to survivors who are filing new claims 
based on PACT Act presumptions of service connection, VA has identified 
claims that were submitted and denied prior to the date on which the 
law went into effect and notifies potentially entitled beneficiaries. 
Under section 204 of the PACT Act, 38 U.S.C. 1305, a claimant must 
elect to have a reevaluation of their original DIC claim in view of a 
newly established or modified presumption of service connection. If 
reevaluation of a previously denied claim now shows entitlement, 
monetary benefits can be awarded without delay. In these situations, VA 
must assign an effective date as if the newly established or modified 
presumption was in effect at the time of the original DIC claim.
    Following the passage of the PACT Act, VA extended outreach to 
385,000 potential survivors who may be impacted. Since then, as of 
January 1, 2024, VA has received 13,768 DIC claims related to 
presumptive conditions allowed under 38 U.S.C. 1305 as enacted by 
section 204(a) and completed 8,774 of these cases. A total of $116 
million has been awarded in retroactive benefits to Y survivors.
    VA also provides educational assistance to survivors and certain 
dependents through the Survivors' and Dependents' Educational 
Assistance (DEA) program and the Marine Gunnery Sergeant John David Fry 
Scholarship (Fry Scholarship). In general, the DEA program offers 
education and training benefits to eligible dependents and survivors of 
Veterans or Service members who have or had a service-connected 
disability rated as permanently and totally disabling and of Veterans 
or Service members who died as a result of a service-related condition. 
The program offers up to 36 months of full-time benefits (45 months if 
enrolled before August 1, 2018). These benefits may be used for degree 
and certificate programs, apprenticeships, and on-the-job training. In 
December 2022, Public Law 117-328, the ``Consolidated Appropriations 
Act, 2023,'' Division U, section 234 removed the time limitation for 
DEA in 38 U.S.C. 3512, thereby improving benefits by providing certain 
spouses and children with additional time to use their benefits. In FY 
2023, VA paid $1.4 billion to 215,934 dependents who trained under the 
DEA program, which represents a 17.4 percent increase over FY 2022 in 
beneficiaries using chapter 35 benefits.
    The Fry Scholarship is available for children and spouses of 
Service members who died in the line of duty on or after September 11, 
2001, while serving in the Armed Forces, or for children and spouses of 
members of the Selected Reserve who died from a service-connected 
disability on or after September 11, 2001. Eligible beneficiaries may 
receive up to 36 months of benefits. This includes full in-State 
tuition and fees for public schools, and tuition and fees for private 
or foreign schools that are capped at a statutory maximum amount per 
academic year. Additionally, students may receive a monthly housing 
allowance and stipend for books and supplies. In FY 2023, VA paid $81.5 
million to 813 spouses and 3,376 children under the Fry Scholarship 
program.
    In addition, in FY 2023, 22,393 spouses and 97,162 children trained 
under the Post-9/11 GI Bill using transferred entitlement, bringing the 
total number of spouses and children training under the Post-9/11 GI 
Bill to nearly 124,000. The percentage of VA education trainees who are 
spouses or children of Veterans has doubled over the last decade, from 
20 percent (FY 2013) to 40 percent (FY 2023).
    Survivors and dependents wishing to receive VA educational 
assistance can use the GI Bill Comparison Tool on VA.gov to compare and 
locate approved schools or training providers and apply for the 
benefits through the VA.gov website. While nothing can replace or repay 
the sacrifice of military families, it is through our daily work that 
VA reaffirms its mission to provide ready access to, and timely and 
accurate delivery of, education benefits to the Nation's Veterans, 
Service members, and their families.

In-Service Death

    When a Service member passes while in-service, VA partners with 
DoD, DHS, HHS, and DOC immediately to provide outreach, guidance, and 
claims assistance with compassion to support the survivor during this 
difficult time.
    Upon notice of an in-service death, the VA Regional Office (RO) 
Casualty Assistance Coordinator reaches out to the surviving family 
members as directed by VA guidance. VA's Office of Field Operations and 
Outreach, Transition, and Economic Development Service manage the 
Casualty Assistance Program, which is a cooperative VA/DoD service to 
help survivors of Service members who die while on active duty. The 
military will give direction on when VA contact should be initiated. 
Usually, the first contact with survivors will be made by telephone to 
set up a personal visit at a time and place convenient for the 
survivor(s). However, if 30 days have passed, VA will contact survivors 
with a letter and enclosed business card to set up an appointment.
    When VA receives DD Form 1300, Report of Casualty, from DoD, VA 
immediately begins processing the claim for DIC. VBA has a dedicated 
staff to process original claims for in-service death at the 
Philadelphia VA RO, ensuring efficient and accurate benefits delivery 
to survivors during their time of need.

Outreach Efforts by the Veteran Health Administration

    In FY 2023, VHA developed and implemented a two-pronged direct 
outreach approach targeted to eligible beneficiaries who were not yet 
engaged with VA and provided key benefit information to our Civilian 
Health and Medical Program of the Department of Veterans Affairs 
(CHAMPVA) beneficiaries. This was done through various methods, 
including news articles, podcast segments, and virtual presentations at 
conferences, and by improving website content. These efforts have 
focused on topics like eligibility, enrollment, claims submission, and 
reimbursement, and aimed to educate VSOs and officers about benefits 
and eligibility criteria.
    VHA outreach programs and initiatives for CHAMPVA beneficiaries are 
driven at the Integrated Veteran Care, Veterans Integrated Service 
Network, and Veterans Affairs Medical Center (VAMC) levels and through 
collaboration with nonprofit organizations, community groups, and VSOs. 
By concentrating outreach programs at these levels and alongside these 
extraordinary collaborators, we achieve a more centralized approach in 
addressing the specific needs of these Veteran family members.
    Notably, VHA's virtual outreach efforts have had a significant 
impact in reaching CHAMPVA beneficiaries nationwide. Through these 
efforts, emotional support, guidance, and practical information are 
provided to address their unique needs and challenges. By using modern 
technology and online platforms, VHA offers virtual support groups, 
counseling sessions, and educational workshops to assist survivors in 
navigating their grief journey. These initiatives demonstrate VHA's 
commitment to meeting the evolving needs of survivors in an ever-
changing digital landscape, ensuring that they receive the care, 
understanding, and resources they deserve.

Provision of VHA-Related Care

    VHA is committed to providing health care services to Veterans, 
their families, and survivors. Recognizing the unique challenges faced 
by survivors, VHA is committed to removing barriers and ensuring that 
all survivors have access to the benefits for which they are eligible. 
To fulfill VA's mission of caring for survivors, VHA takes pride in 
offering compassionate and understanding support through various 
programs and initiatives. Our dedication lies in ensuring that 
survivors receive the necessary care, resources, and guidance to the 
extent authorized by law, to navigate their grief, and find a path 
toward healing and well-being.

Civilian Health and Medical Program of the Department of Veterans 
Affairs

    CHAMPVA is a health care program specifically designed to provide 
medical care to an eligible spouse or child, surviving spouse or child, 
or Primary Family Caregiver of certain Veterans.\1\ CHAMPVA does not 
provide direct patient care; rather, CHAMPVA is a cost-sharing program 
in which the cost of covered services is shared with the CHAMPVA 
beneficiary. The program covers allowable expenses for medical services 
and supplies that are medically necessary and appropriate for the 
treatment of a condition, including both physical and mental health 
care, subject to certain exclusions.
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    \1\ CHAMPVA benefits are available to individuals who are not 
eligible for TRICARE through the Department of Defense. They must also 
be a spouse or child of a veteran who has been adjudicated by VA has 
having a permanent and total service-connected disability; the 
surviving spouse or child of a Veteran who died as a result of an 
adjudicated service-connected condition(s) or who at the time of death 
was adjudicated permanently and totally disabled from a service-
connected condition(s); the surviving spouse or child of a person who 
died on active military service and in the line of duty and not due to 
such person's own misconduct; an individual designated as a Primary 
Family Caregiver, under 38 C.F.R. 71.25(f), who is not entitled to care 
or services under a health-plan contract (as defined in 38 U.S.C. 
1725(f)(2)); or an eligible child who is pursuing a full-time course of 
instruction approved under 38 U.S.C. Chapter 36, and who incurs a 
disabling illness or injury while pursuing such course in certain 
circumstances and up to age 23 if authorized by law.
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    Under CHAMPVA, eligible survivors can receive coverage for a wide 
range of medical services, such as hospital visits, doctor 
appointments, prescription medications, and emergency care.

Bereavement Services

    Bereavement counseling has been proven to effectively reduce grief 
and depression, as well as assist individuals in restoring their social 
functioning more quickly.\2\ In the case of a Veteran in the Program of 
Comprehensive Assistance for Family Caregivers (PCAFC) who passes away, 
the participating family caregiver is eligible to receive 90 days of 
extended benefits from the date of death, which includes bereavement 
counseling.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Stroebe W, Schut H, and Stroebe MS. (2005). ``Grief work, 
disclosure and counseling: Do they help the bereaved?'' Clinical 
Psychology Review. 25(4): 395-414. doi.org/10.1016/j.cpr.2005.01.004. 
See also Stroebe W, Zech W, Storebe MS, and Abakoumkin G. (2005). 
``Does social support help in bereavement?'' Journal of Social and 
Clinical Psychology. 24(7). Doi.org/10.1521/jscp.2005.24.7.1030. See 
also, generally, Dyregrov K and Dyregrov A. (2008). Effective grief and 
bereavement support: The role of family, friends, colleagues, schools 
and support professionals. Jessial Kingsley Publishers. London and 
Philadelphia. ISBN: 978-1-84310-667-8.
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    Bereavement services offered by VA are described in 38 U.S.C. Sec.  
1783, which includes certain individuals who are already receiving 
counseling services from VHA under specific circumstances and immediate 
family members of Service members who died in active duty unrelated to 
personal misconduct. It is important to note that the number of 
Veterans covered by these services is relatively small--approximately 1 
percent of all those enrolled in VHA. Bereavement counseling may be 
provided through Vet Centers, and VA is able to provide such counseling 
to grieving families of Veterans who die by suicide each year. While it 
is a positive development that VA is able to provide counseling to 
these additional grieving families, it is important to acknowledge that 
only a small proportion of the families and survivors in need are able 
to receive bereavement counseling from VA due to limited legal 
authorities for VA to provide such care.

Chaplain Services

    Recognizing that spirituality plays a significant role in the 
health of many Veterans and their families, VA has determined that its 
provision of comprehensive medical and hospital services includes 
spiritual care. The provision of spiritual care is customized to meet 
the individual's needs, desires, and voluntary consent. Chaplains \3\ 
meet with the families and loved ones of Veterans to provide spiritual 
care to both inpatient and outpatient Veterans. They play a crucial 
role within VA, offering consistent spiritual care and support 
throughout all stages of a Veteran's hospitalization, and even after 
their passing. Chaplains provide direct spiritual and emotional care to 
Veterans receiving inpatient or outpatient care from a VA medical 
facility.
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    \3\ All VHA Chaplains receive comprehensive medical ethics 
training.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (1) Bereavement Counseling Services. Chaplains, as integral 
participants in facility bereavement programs, contribute significantly 
to bereavement care. They conduct regular grief support phone calls, 
send standard mail condolences, and connect individuals with community 
grief resources as needed. However, there is a gap in providing 
adequate spiritual care and emotional support during the transition 
from involvement with VHA to NCA or VBA. The Chaplain Service is 
implementing a 2-year pilot program at Riverside National Cemetery.\4\ 
As part of this program, a VHA Central Office (VHACO) Chaplain will 
provide comprehensive bereavement care coordination with available 
counseling and support for survivors. This includes offering support 
and assistance to families from the time of a Veteran's interment and 
beyond. The chaplain's role is to ensure that grieving families have 
access to the necessary resources and services during this challenging 
period. The program aims to provide Veterans and their families with 
comprehensive spiritual care coordination, ensuring they receive the 
support they need during this difficult time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ VA has the authority and responsibility to accommodate the 
religious needs of all individuals within its purview. When family 
members of interred Veterans visit National Cemetery sites, the pilot 
program ensures that their freedom of expression is respected and that 
they receive appropriate religious services or support based on their 
needs, desires, and voluntary consent. See generally 38 U.S.C. Sec.  
7301, 38 U.S.C. Sec.  7401(3), 38 C.F.R. Sec.  17.33(b)(7), OPM GS-0060 
series, and VHA Directive 1111. See also Abington School District v. 
Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (1963); Theriault v. Silber, 579 F.2d 302 (5th 
Cir. 1978); Marsh v. Chambers, 463 U.S. 783 (1983); Katcoff v. Marsh, 
755 F.2d 223 (2d Cir., 1985); and Carter v. Broadlawns Medical Center, 
857 F.2d 448 (1988).
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    (2) Suicide Prevention Counseling Services. VA Chaplains are part 
of Suicide Postvention Teams at VAMC facilities, providing immediate, 
short-term, and long-term support to Veterans, their families, friends, 
and employees. These teams ensure that those affected by suicide 
receive the necessary care and guidance to navigate the challenging 
aftermath. Their work creates a compassionate environment where 
individuals can heal and find solace after such a tragic event, 
ensuring that those affected receive the necessary care and guidance.

    Veterans Crisis Line (VCL)

    The Veterans Crisis Line (VCL) recognizes the unique challenges 
survivors may face in coping with loss and grief. Whether survivors are 
grappling with the death of their loved one or experiencing mental 
health challenges, they can reach out to the National Substance Abuse 
and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) Helpline and reach a 
dedicated team of trained professionals, available 24/7, to receive 
compassionate assistance and guidance as they navigate their journey of 
healing and well-being.\5\ These calls are instrumental in connecting 
survivors with specialized services, to the extent authorized by law 
and subject to applicable eligibility, such as bereavement counseling, 
survivor benefits information, and referrals to local support groups. 
The 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline also offers confidential phone, 
chat and text services, ensuring accessibility and convenience for 
survivors who may prefer these modes of communication when in a crisis.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ While VCL does not initiate first contact, when a survivor 
provides initial information about a death of a Veteran by suicide, VCL 
responders do submit a ``Postvention Request'' to the local Suicide 
Prevention Program for further follow-up. The coordinator then offers 
outreach to survivors, focusing on postvention and providing additional 
follow-up. Suicide postvention is an essential component that 
complements prevention efforts. More information on the Suicide 
Prevention Program can be found through the Office of Mental Health and 
Suicide Prevention's program guide, available at https://
www.mirecc.va.gov/suicideprevention/documents/
suicidepreventionprogramguide_06222022.pdf.
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    VCL is also committed to continuously improving its services 
through data-driven insights. By analyzing call patterns, trends, and 
feedback from callers, both the Veteran Crisis Line and 988 Suicide & 
Crisis Lifeline identify areas for improvement, such as expanding 
services, refining protocols, and enhancing staff training. This data-
driven approach ensures the Crisis Line remains responsive to the 
evolving needs of Veterans and other callers. VCL actively seeks input 
from callers and collaborates with mental health experts, VSOs, and 
other stakeholders to gather insights and incorporate best practices 
into their operations.

Care Management and Social Work Services

    Care Management and Social Work Services (CMSW) is supported by 
over 20,000 VA Social Workers who assist Veterans, their families, and 
caregivers in addressing social drivers of health challenges that 
impact their overall health and well-being. Importantly, VA does not 
currently have the authority to directly offer assessment and treatment 
services to survivors of Veterans who are not eligible for such care 
from VA. However, it does provide referrals to non-VA resources to help 
ensure appropriate connections are made.
    In May 2023, CMSW was given the responsibility of creating the 
Survivors Assistance and Memorial Support Program to better serve 
survivors. The primary objective of this program is to enhance support 
for survivors and establish standardized bereavement counseling care on 
a national scale. The program aims to provide personalized and 
supportive services to families, caregivers, and survivors during the 
final stages of a Veteran's life.

National Cemetery Administration

    VA's NCA directly supports survivors who seek burial and memorial 
benefits for their deceased Veteran. NCA administers burial and 
memorial benefits in 155 national cemeteries in 44 states and Puerto 
Rico. In addition to the VA national cemeteries, NCA manages the 
Veterans Cemetery Grant Program, which provides funds aiding the 
establishment, expansion, or improvement of state and tribal Veterans' 
cemeteries. There are currently 122 grant-funded cemeteries in 49 
states and territories (including Guam, Saipan, and Puerto Rico). VA 
remains focused on increasing access to burial benefits by developing 
new national cemeteries, developing additional gravesites at existing 
national cemeteries, and establishing and expanding State cemeteries 
for Veterans through the grant program.
    In addition, NCA provides memorial benefits to Veterans and their 
eligible family members. These memorial benefits are provided to 
survivors all over the world for their eligible Veterans and family 
members--whether they are buried in a national, grant--funded, or 
private cemetery. Benefits include headstones and markers, niche covers 
for columbaria, medallions, and Presidential Memorial Certificates. 
Every Veteran also receives a Veterans Legacy Memorial (VLM) 
(vlm.cem.va.gov) page for loved ones to share their tributes online.
    VLM offers families an innovative way to remember their loved ones. 
VLM is the Nation's first digital platform dedicated to the memory of 
more than 4.5 million Veterans interred in VA's national cemeteries and 
VA-funded state, territorial, and tribal Veterans cemeteries. VLM 
allows survivors and family, friends and others to preserve their 
Veteran's legacy (www.cem.va.gov/videos/
Preserving_Veterans_Legacies.asp) by posting tributes. During the 
November 2023 Veterans Month, the VLM website doubled in size by adding 
nearly 5 million Veterans and Service members buried in private and 
other non-VA cemeteries. VLM's interactive features allow survivors, 
family, friends, and the public to submit tributes (comments), images, 
biographical information, and historical documents; create their 
Veteran's military service and personal achievements timeline; and 
generate a Word Cloud that describes their Veteran. This provides an 
important resource for survivors to honor, grieve, and celebrate 
Veterans.
    NCA also supports families prior to the death of a Veteran or 
family member as well. Since 2016, Veterans and families have been able 
to get a ``pre-need'' determination of eligibility for burial in a 
national cemetery. This program assists family members and Veterans 
with end-of-life planning, helps them understand their burial benefits, 
and is consistent with private sector practice. More than 330,000 
determinations have been completed to date.
    In this same vein, NCA has partnered with other VA offices to 
integrate communications around the part of a Veteran's journey at the 
end of their life. Talking about end-of-life planning is never easy, 
but it's essential. From this partnership, VA developed an End of Life 
public service announcement (https://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=XjHzQn8GSXA), created a new landing page website (https://
www.va.gov/initiatives/end-of-life-benefits/) with links to all of our 
related benefits, and developed an integrated overview briefing. We are 
promoting planning ahead this month. Please visit our website at 
(www.va.gov/initiatives/end-of-life-benefits) to learn more.

Improved Delivery of Benefits and Services

    Ensuring the efficient and accurate delivery of benefits to 
survivors is one of VA's key focuses. To improve benefits delivery to 
survivors, VA has undertaken several projects that are designed to 
provide enhanced claims processing through updates in forms, 
procedures, and the use of automated claims processing.
    VA continues to review and update forms related to DIC and burial 
claims, to ensure that the forms are clear and request information 
needed to process a claim quickly. We substantially updated VA Form 
21P-534EZ, Application for DIC, Survivors Pension, and/or Accrued 
Benefits, to account for the passage of the PACT Act by allowing 
claimants to elect reevaluation under the PACT Act, and VA Form 21-
530EZ, Application for Burial Benefits, to include selections for 
tribal trust land and state burials to account for changes made by the 
Johnny Isakson and David P. Roe, M.D. Veterans Healthcare and Benefits 
Improvement Act of 2020 (Public Law 116-315). In addition, we updated 
both forms to better align with optical character recognition 
technology to better use automated claims processing technology in 
place, to improve readability for claimants, and to improve the 
instructions for filling out these forms.
    VA continues to seek ways to improve and expand the use of 
automation in its benefits delivery to provide faster, better service 
to survivors. In some instances, when VA receives a first notice of 
death of a Veteran, survivor benefit payments to the surviving spouse 
of record may be automated. This reduces the burden of the surviving 
spouse from navigating the claims process immediately after the loss of 
their loved one.
    VA is committed to streamlining delivery of DIC and burial benefits 
using automation. In April 2021, VA completed its most recent delivery 
of survivor claims automation, which provided the ability to process 
DIC and burial claims end-to-end. Since then, VA has continued to 
update and refine the automation process for survivor benefit claims. 
In FY 2023, these automation processes completed over 62,000 burial 
claims (60 percent of burial claims received) and over 13,000 DIC 
claims (19 percent of all DIC claims received). This advancement in 
technology allows field personnel to focus on more complex claims.

Challenges and Opportunities

    VA strives to put Veterans and their survivors at the center of 
everything we do, but this mission is not met without its challenges 
and opportunities. While the Survivor's Journey Map project will help 
us identify pain points and challenges, VA is actively working on 
resolving some known challenges that we are currently facing. One such 
challenge that we have heard from our stakeholders recently involves 
the potential lapse in DIC benefits as a dependent child transitions 
from high school to college. VA is reviewing procedures, training, 
claims processing systems, and workload management strategies to 
improve timeliness in this area.
    To help meet the increasing demands for VA benefits, we have been 
aggressively expanding our workforce through hiring fairs and other 
avenues, with thousands of claims processors hired--including an 18 
percent staff increase in the Pension Management Centers (PMC), since 
January 2023. While VBA processed 86,600 survivor-related claims in FY 
2023, over 39,400 remain pending. VA aims to further improve service 
delivery through hiring over 100 additional personnel to the PMCs to 
increase VA's ability to serve more Veterans' survivors in a timely and 
efficient manner.
    Many survivor benefit claims require VA to obtain Federal records 
before a claims processor can begin adjudicating the claim--as of 
January 2, 2024, nearly 2,250 survivor benefit claims required such 
Federal records. Over the last 3 years, VA has made significant 
progress modernizing the claims process supply chain, to include 
brokering several historic agreements that ensured needed records are 
available as rapidly and as early in the claims process as possible. 
These efforts are ongoing and VA will continue working to reduce access 
to barriers to necessary Federal records to support survivor claims 
processing. Through these efforts, VA hopes to continue to collaborate 
with necessary Federal entities to obtain all necessary Federal records 
for survivors on the day a claim is received. Doing so would allow VA 
to start adjudicating survivor benefit claims on the day VA receives 
the claim and provide a decision as quickly as possible.
    VA is exploring ways to enhance collaboration and identify areas 
where survivors have encountered questions or hurdles. This will better 
inform process refinements to ease their potential burdens. We are also 
working to improve internal alignment within VA administrations to 
ensure communication and outreach with the survivor community, which 
reflects the Secretary's vision of VA putting Veterans and their 
survivors at the center of everything we do.

Conclusion

    VA shares the President's and Congress' goal of supporting the 
survivors of our Service members and Veterans in a caring and 
compassionate manner that honors their service. I want to express my 
appreciation for your continued support of our Veterans, their 
families, caregivers, and survivors. I also want to acknowledge our VSO 
partners, who do so much to advocate on behalf of Veterans and 
survivors, as well as other Veteran stakeholders who work with us to 
provide the best care and services for Veterans and their families. VA 
continues to work to meet this goal and serves as a resource regarding 
all benefits and services furnished by the Department to survivors of 
deceased Veterans and members of the Armed Forces.
    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, this concludes my testimony. 
I am happy to respond to any questions you or the Committee may have.
                                 ______
                                 

                Prepared Statement of Gabriella Kubinyi

    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and members of the committee, 
on behalf of the men and women of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the 
United States (VFW) and its Auxiliary, thank you for the opportunity to 
provide our remarks on issues related to military and veteran 
survivors.
    The VFW has long advocated for an increase in benefits and services 
for family members who sacrificed alongside of their loved ones in 
support of service in the United States military. Many spouses who are 
survivors require assistance with obtaining the benefits and services 
needed to sustain a healthy lifestyle and cope with the grief of losing 
a loved one. As a member of the VFW Auxiliary and president of the Gold 
Star Wives Arlington Chapter, I made it my mission to support and 
advocate for survivors. My employment as a case worker for the VFW was 
instrumental, providing me the means and resources to help survivors 
access their benefits and maneuver the Department of Veterans Affairs 
(VA) system. The VFW has strongly advocated for specific changes and 
supported specific legislation that would help with reducing some of 
the challenges that survivor families face. I am proud to provide 
testimony drawing from my years of experience working with this great 
organization to assist survivors from around the country.
    My passion for this work was birthed on April 2, 2012, when my 
husband of five years died suddenly due to an undiagnosed heart 
ailment. We were childhood friends and high school sweethearts living 
in Chesapeake, Virginia, where he was stationed for duty with the 
United States Navy. My husband was only thirty-one years old, and 
imagining life without him was something I was not prepared to do. 
Navigating life as a survivor is challenging. I quickly discovered the 
negative impact of unaddressed gaps in the communication process 
between VA and its outreach to survivors concerning their eligibility 
for benefits and services made available by their fallen loved ones.
    VFW-accredited service officers from across the country have 
reported common themes that reveal the difficulties survivor spouses 
and dependents face when attempting to access VA benefits. Common 
issues pertain to a lack of proper education and understanding of their 
entitled benefits, limited and confusing communications from VA, and 
missed opportunities for effective outreach. Also noted over the course 
of a year is an increase in original Dependency and Indemnity 
Compensation (DIC) claims considered to be backlogged more than 125 
days.
    To gain firsthand knowledge on the challenges that survivors face, 
VFW-accredited service officers work directly with them on their claims 
for VA benefits, as well as answer questions regarding access to health 
care education. As a survivor myself, and a former VFW caseworker, I 
can attest to the work and commitment of this organization on behalf of 
survivors. The VFW's message is loud and clear, and will remain 
consistent until the issues that negatively impact survivors are 
addressed. Its position is not new, but it bears repeating.

Outreach to Survivors

    It is critical to ensure that survivors receive the information to 
understand their eligibility and the processes to apply for VA 
benefits. Veterans who receive VA disability compensation or health 
care may assume that VA will automatically award benefits to their 
surviving spouses or children when they die without identifying the 
important and necessary paperwork in advance. VFW service officers 
report that very often surviving spouses do not realize that when their 
veterans die, the VA disability payments they were receiving will stop 
and they will need to take the steps to apply for DIC. Survivors also 
typically expect that DIC payments will be the same amount as the 
previous disability payments, when in fact DIC is significantly less. 
Without anticipating this change in compensation, survivors may 
suddenly find themselves in difficult financial situations.
    When an active duty service member dies, as was my situation, the 
Department of Defense assigns a Casualty Assistance Officer to assist 
the survivor with the preparation and submission of necessary claims 
for VA benefits. When a veteran who is no longer in the military dies, 
VA needs to be informed of the death and then will attempt to contact 
the spouse or dependents informing them that they can apply for 
survivor benefits. Unfortunately, the language used and the information 
provided in VA's letters can be confusing and frustrating. The wording 
can be unfamiliar to civilians and lack sufficient explanation. 
Survivors may not understand how the veteran's time in service equates 
to eligibility, and some are then surprised when certain service dates 
``don't count'' toward receipt of certain benefits. Denial letters also 
do not explain well why the survivor did not qualify for a benefit. The 
lack of clear and effective communication regarding entitlements can 
make an already distressing situation worse.
    The VFW has and will continue to highlight the need for the 
Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) and the Veterans Health 
Administration (VHA) to share data. This should also include National 
Cemetery Administration (NCA) data. When VA is informed that a veteran 
has died, this should trigger communications from VA to the spouse and 
dependents identified in VA records. Much of the required information 
to effectively reach and communicate with survivors already exists in 
one of VA's many IT systems, although some survivors are still missed. 
Upgrades required to facilitate information sharing across existing 
platforms are long overdue. Investments in these critical technology 
upgrades or moving to a single IT system will take dedicated staff, 
planning, and funding. These improvements are critical to ensure the 
efficiency and accuracy of claims processing for veterans and their 
survivors.
    Pre-planning is key. The VFW recommends that VA create a pre-need 
process for benefits for families while the veteran is still alive. 
Those enrolled in the VA Caregiver Support Program are already 
receiving communications from VA and should be the easiest to reach, 
though VA should work to contact all families of veterans within its 
system to provide communications and guidance regarding benefits. NCA 
currently has an extensive end-of-life planning document intended for 
any veteran, at any age, to gather all important information in advance 
of death. This could be promoted more by VA as it contains useful 
information that could be shared throughout its three administrations 
to inform and prepare survivors.
    The VFW also recommends that VA expand outreach to survivors to 
connect them with accredited claims representatives for assistance. 
They can help survivors during the incredibly difficult moment 
following the death of a loved one by listening to their situations, 
informing them of the benefits to which they are eligible, and 
identifying the necessary paperwork to accomplish a successful claim.

Claims for Survivor Benefits

    The VFW continues to urge VA to be more deliberate and transparent 
with claims quality control. This remains important especially as VA 
uses automated processes where certain claims, like those for DIC, are 
reviewed and assessed by IT programs designed to identify required 
criteria and quickly make a grant or denial determination. Automation 
has been shown to greatly shorten the processing time for DIC claims. 
When the VFW last testified on this subject two years ago, its service 
officers reported observing quicker decision times for both DIC and 
survivors pension claims, mentioning decisions for many claims were 
available in one to two weeks. Unfortunately, the VFW has noticed 
slower processing times by VA for DIC claims over the last year, but 
the reason is not clear. Backlogged DIC claims have risen from 30.4 
percent in January 2023 to 50 percent in January 2024. This could be a 
result of the growing number of PACT Act claims, though it is 
unfortunate that VA's automation has not been able to prevent 
significant delays in processing times.
    Survivors also have difficulty gathering other records for claims, 
including the service records and divorce decrees from any prior 
marriages. Additionally, VA will look at a death certificate and the 
stated cause of death but should always obtain a medical opinion 
regarding how any service-connected disabilities contributed (or not) 
to a veteran's passing. Unfortunately, VA will typically not take this 
additional step without the urging of a claims representative. Even 
when VA does provide a medical opinion, the doctor is often still 
unwilling to determine that any service-connected condition contributed 
to the death, and so the risk of a denial of the claim remains. VFW 
service officers express that they do all they can to encourage 
survivors to request that the veteran's medical provider correct the 
death certificate, knowing that this will be the best chance for a 
favorable claim outcome.
    In addition to improving the claims process for survivors, the VFW 
strongly supports an increase in the rate of DIC payments to survivors. 
It is an injustice that the DIC benefit has only been minimally 
increased since it was created in 1993. Currently, DIC is paid at 43 
percent of 100 percent permanent and total disability while all other 
federal survivor programs are paid at 55 percent. The VFW urges 
Congress to pass H.R. 3402 / S. 976, Caring for Survivors Act of 2021, 
which would increase DIC to 55 percent, finally reaching parity with 
other federal agencies.
    It also time for legislation to update the definition of 
``surviving spouse'' found in title 38, United States Code, to reflect 
modern legal and social realities. The last time the definition was 
updated was in 1962, and much has changed in the past sixty years. The 
current definition is outdated with its reference to marriage being 
between people of the opposite sex and to the undefined ``holding 
oneself out to be married'' clause. The VFW supports updating this 
language to ensure the definition of survivor is fair and in alignment 
with marriage requirements of the current era.

Education

    After my husband died, I decided to pursue continuing my education 
and applied for the Graduate Gateway Program at American University. It 
was a one-semester program where students took two graduate level 
classes and completed an internship. This was perfect for me to try out 
graduate school, start a new life in Washington, D.C., and find an 
internship that could lead me to a fulfilling career.
    The only VA education benefit available for survivors at that time 
was the Dependent Education Assistance Program (DEA). Fortunately, I 
was able to pay the tuition upfront and then waited for the DEA support 
to come. While the funding was helpful, the total amount of assistance 
I received that semester was less than the cost of one month of rent.
    In my personal experience, the systems that VA has in place for 
survivors have worked. Any time I had a question about my benefits I 
was able to quickly get answers from competent VA employees. It is 
especially great that survivors have their own number to push on the GI 
Bill Hotline. Every time I called, they were very pleasant and 
knowledgeable.
    The internship I completed was with the VFW's legislative 
department. It helped me acquire my next position at Walter Reed, and 
then I returned to the VFW where I held two different positions over 
the course of five years.
    I had heard from a number of veteran friends over the years that 
George Washington University (GWU) was very military friendly. So deep 
was their commitment that no veteran who has attended has had to pay 
anything as long as they were using their VA education benefits. By 
this time, the Marine Gunnery Sergeant John David Fry Scholarship 
existed. Since I was now eligible for the Fry Scholarship, I was also 
eligible for the Yellow Ribbon Program. It is the funding of the Yellow 
Ribbon Program by GWU that enables students to attend the university 
with no tuition. If it were not for the Fry Scholarship, and the Yellow 
Ribbon Program and GWU's commitment to funding theirs, I would not have 
been able to afford the master's degree in political management I just 
completed this past May. I am grateful for the VA education benefits 
that enabled me to continue my studies, find meaningful professional 
work, and volunteer in my area of passion, making sure the voices of 
the survivor community are heard.

Health Care

    While working at the VFW, I was assigned to participate on the VA 
Veterans' Family, Caregiver, and Survivor Advisory Committee. In that 
capacity, I was able to request information from VA regarding laws and 
policy. This was a resource that would prove to be helpful when I found 
myself in need of mental health assistance and knew to reach out to a 
Vet Center for counseling. I quickly understood the need for 
legislation like the Vet Center Improvement Act of 2021 that was 
introduced in the last Congress but never gained traction. I share my 
Vet Center experience to echo the Government Accountability Office 
comments in its report from May 17, 2022, VA Vet Centers: Opportunities 
Exist to Help Better Ensure Veterans' and Servicemembers' Readjustment 
Counseling Needs Are Met. A direct quote reads, ``VHA could better 
assess Vet Center services. For example, it isn't measuring the extent 
to which Vet Centers are meeting client needs, and it doesn't know 
whether it isn't minimizing barriers to Vet Center care.'' I have 
encountered two very different interactions with Vet Centers. My first 
experience was prior to the implementation of VHA's Readjustment 
Counseling Service, and I was extremely satisfied with the results. My 
second experience after implementation of the Readjustment Counseling 
Service did not go as well.
    After losing my husband at the age of thirty-two in 2012, I had to 
figure out a new life for myself. I moved back to my parent's house in 
northern New Jersey. Knowing the importance of therapy, I eventually 
started going to counseling at the Secaucus location. My therapist had 
also been a military spouse and her husband was a disabled veteran. The 
work we did together resulted in my applying for graduate school 
courses and making the move to Washington, D.C., where I knew one 
person who was someone I met through Running to Remember with the 
Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors. There is no way I would have 
had the courage and ability to move forward with my life had it not 
been for that therapist at the Vet Center.
    After successfully completing the program at American University, I 
was still floundering. That is when I knew I needed to go back to 
counseling. I started counseling with the Washington, D.C. Vet Center. 
This new therapist and I were able to get me to the point of applying 
for jobs and finding a passion in helping veterans and survivors. Yet 
again, a Vet Center therapist helped me find my way to a more 
fulfilling life.
    Next fast forward approximately five years. While I had a great 
family, friends, job, condominium, and car, I was approaching the ten-
year mark of losing my husband. It was especially difficult to reflect 
on having been alone for a decade and the possibility of that 
continuing for the rest of my life. And what do I do when I really need 
help? So far, I had gone to a Vet Center, but this time was different.
    I was connected with the Washington, DC. Vet Center and was 
assigned a female therapist, which I requested. However, there was a 
gap in time between my initial contact and beginning therapy. Once we 
started, I thought it was going fine. After some time together, my 
weekly sessions were reduced to every other week. I was told this was 
because the Vet Center was trying to accept more patients. I was 
alright with that because I know how important counseling is and that 
there is an overwhelming need in our community.
    Then, in January 2022, I received a call from my therapist letting 
me know that she would have to discontinue our sessions. She said 
survivors were short-term Vet Center customers and that my time had 
expired. She did let me know that she did not agree with this and 
thought we were nowhere near finished with our work.
    This was the first time I ever heard about any time limit on Vet 
Center sessions for survivors. I was able to reach out to VA to request 
information on any law or VA policy change. Once this was brought to 
the attention of the VA headquarters staff, my therapist called back to 
tell me that I could continue therapy with no time limit. I was told 
that this was a policy misinterpretation by middle management and that 
corrective action would be taken.
    A month later my therapist quit. The Washington, D.C. Vet Center 
then did not have any female therapists to which I could transfer. I 
asked about nearby Vet Center locations in Virginia and Maryland and 
was told I could go to them but once a female therapist was hired in 
Washington, D.C., I would be obligated to switch to that person. 
Creating a relationship with a therapist takes time and it is painful 
to recount certain memories over and over again. I decided I would wait 
for a female to be hired so I would not have to switch providers again. 
It is now two years later, and I have not had any counseling since 
then. I hope this committee will conduct oversight into this problem at 
the Washington, D.C. Vet Center, in addition to the overall 
availability of mental health services for survivors to ensure that all 
Vet Centers are properly staffed and resourced.
    Last, the VFW supports surviving spouses regaining their TRICARE 
benefits if they remarry and that marriage later ends. Survivors who 
remarry but whose marriages later end can regain DIC and Survivor 
Benefit Plan payments. TRICARE benefits to which unmarried survivors 
are entitled should be reinstated if their future marriages end in 
order to have parity with other survivor benefits.
    Year after year, the VFW and advocates like me ask Congress to 
improve on a variety of survivor issues, and legislation is drafted but 
never receives the needed attention or votes to enact significant 
changes. I strongly urge this committee to find pathways necessary to 
make sure survivor benefits are taken seriously and not pushed off 
again for the next Congress.
    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, thank you for the opportunity 
to share my testimony today. I look forward to any questions you may 
have.

Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives

    Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, the VFW 
has not received any federal grants in Fiscal Year 2024, nor has it 
received any federal grants in the two previous Fiscal Years.

    The VFW has not received payments or contracts from any foreign 
governments in the current year or preceding two calendar years.
                                 ______
                                 

               Prepared Statement of Kaanan Mackey-Fugler

    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and distinguished members of 
the House Committee on Veteran Affairs, I thank you for the opportunity 
to share issues and challenges surviving military families face 
accessing benefits through the Department of Veterans Affairs.

My Loss

    I am the surviving spouse of SSG Matthew Mackey. Matt served in 
both the Marine Corps and the Army National Guard for nearly two 
decades. He served four years in the Marine Corps and I was lucky 
enough to be by his side during the last two of those years. When his 
enlistment ended, he wanted to spend more time with our growing family 
while continuing to serve this great country. He did this by joining 
the Iowa National Guard. We had 12 years together. My family spent nine 
years and seven months of that time separated by training, schools, or 
deployments. Getting married at 19, I spent my entire adult life at 
home, raising our family, while my husband served our country.
    In 2010, mere months after returning home from an Operation Iraqi 
Freedom deployment, Matt died because of an accident, in my arms, while 
on Title 32 orders. When he died, every hope and dream for OUR future 
was shattered in a moment. I was left to raise our five young children. 
Our oldest child was 11 and our youngest turned two a week after the 
funeral. My children had the last bit of their innocence ripped away 
from them in a little room off the ICU. It was there I had to tell them 
that their dad would not be coming home with us. I watched heartbroken 
as my nine-year-old son ran out of the room bawling, wanting to know 
who would teach him to be a man now?! I chose to spend my life by my 
husband's side; my children did not have that choice.
    My career had been put on hold to move around and be there for our 
children during training and deployments. I have spent the last 13 
years continuing to put my life on hold while helping our children 
grieve, grow, and heal. I lost years of being able to vest in my own 
retirement. Though I utilized my education benefits and obtained a 
master's degree, the gaps in my education and employment will affect my 
earning potential and will continue to put me at a disadvantage to my 
civilian counterparts. My survivor benefits helped not only offset my 
husband's income, but the loss of my own income because of our military 
life.

Remarriage Issues

    While my husband was on that last deployment, he wrote our children 
each a ``what if'' letter. In those letters, he tells my children that 
he wanted me to find someone to pick up our broken pieces and would 
love them when he was unable. Matt didn't want me to be alone the rest 
of my life. He certainly didn't want our children to grow up without a 
father figure in their lives. I was lucky enough to find someone 
willing to take on that role. Josh came into our lives and helped mend 
our broken pieces. He helped remind us that there was still a life to 
live. In 2017, after years of dating and struggling with the idea of 
losing my earned benefits, I made the decision to get remarried.
    Josh had almost a decade of military service himself. He understood 
military loss from another perspective and understood what I would give 
up marrying him. He was willing to wait years to marry me, so that I 
wouldn't have my earned benefits ripped away by choosing love. That was 
not fair of me to ask of anyone. It was important for us to show my 
children that love, and morals, were more important than money. I 
should never have to be forced by the government to make the decision 
between love and money.
    Based on current law, I would have had to wait another 24 years to 
remarry; that's almost half of my life. That is what Congress believes 
is the appropriate amount of time I should be alone, in my grief, to 
keep my earned benefits. Disallowing surviving spouses to maintain 
benefits earned during our marriage is an archaic idea of thinking that 
we should be supported by the ``next man.'' Removing my benefits shows 
that my time and my contribution are worthless in the eyes of the 
federal government. The government kept telling me that my loss was a 
``debt that could not be repaid.'' However, what they really mean is 
that my loss is America's debt, until I'm another man's responsibility. 
My husband died. I didn't get divorced. It certainly was not my choice 
to be a widow at 31 and faced with the decision of moving forward with 
love or money. But it was my choice to show my children that life 
continues and to build a new chapter for my family.
    Due to this archaic law, Congress, through the VA and DoD, has made 
our futures all about ways that we can lose our earned benefits. A 
piece of paper will never change that I'm Matt's widow; it just also 
means I am someone else's spouse. It doesn't wipe away the 12 years 
spent sacrificing my own employment while Matt served, nor the 13 years 
after his death spent raising our broken family.

VA Education Issues

    My remarriage created two files within the VA since I remarried a 
disabled veteran: one under Matt and another under Josh. This has led 
to confusion when I applied for CHAMPVA, Chapter 35 upon remarriage, 
and when calling in regarding my children's benefits. When I was 
remarried, my Fry Scholarship was stopped under my deceased spouse, as 
I was no longer eligible. I applied for Chapter 35 under my current 
husband's VA file due to his disability rating. I was initially denied 
Chapter 35 under my new spouse and told that since I had elected Fry 
Scholarship under my deceased spouse I was unable to utilize Chapter 35 
under my current spouse. I brought in TAPS policy to assist. We did not 
find anything in VA policy that prevents me from using a benefit earned 
by my current husband. The VA policy was reviewed after TAPS inquired, 
and it was determined that I was eligible to use Chapter 35 under my 
new spouse. However, this was not before it caused a debt on the Fry 
side under my deceased husband. Because of this, I had to pay for a 
semester of college out of pocket. VA did eventually backdate Chapter 
35 benefits to the date of my remarriage. This pay was used to pay off 
the Fry Scholarship debt caused by my remarriage.
    My adult children have also had issues in utilizing their education 
benefits. None of my adult children can access their VA benefits 
online. ID.me uses their military IDs to verify them but it's connected 
to their dad's information and not their own. This causes issues with 
certifying enrollment when changes are made during the semester.
    My oldest son, Jon, was denied the Fry Scholarship as the VA 
determined ``his dad was not deceased''. This was due to the processor 
not doing his due diligence and checking the file to see the DD1300 
with all 6 names on it. Once we called VA that issue was corrected and 
they sent out my son's Certificate of Eligibility. Additionally, half 
of last year, he was unable to even receive the text messages to 
certify his enrollment at school. He again called VA and was told that 
he could certify through email. This fall, he was finally able to 
receive the text messages for certification.
    My daughter, Chloe, recently had issues regarding the text messages 
to certify enrollment. In October she dropped a course but was still a 
full-time student. When the text message arrived to certify her 
enrollment, it states if you dropped a class reply ``NO.'' She did as 
instructed. She was then instructed to go online and certify her 
enrollment. She is unable to go online as instructed because of the 
ID.me account linked to her dad's information and not her own. She 
called VA Education and was told that the account was noted and there 
would be no problem with her payment. The next month, she wasn't paid. 
She waited a few days to see if it was just delayed since she had to 
call. In the meantime, she received the next text to certify the next 
month of enrollment. This time she typed ``YES,'' as there had been no 
change in the last month to her enrollment. She did not get the 
automated reply. Again, she calls VA Education. This time she is told 
that because she didn't certify her enrollment for two consecutive 
months that her BAH was suspended. Chloe informed them that she called 
last month and was informed it had been taken care of and she told him 
the exact time she replied to the text for this month. This processor 
certified her enrollment and told her that she would get paid in the 
next 2 weeks. Thankfully, she had money in her bank account to cover 
her rent and other bills that were due while she waited on another 
glitch in VA's processing to be corrected and her to receive payment, 
but not every student does.

Turning off VA benefits

    Remarrying required me to go through the process of stopping all my 
earned survivor benefits. My experience in stopping my VA benefits was 
vastly different from Social Security or DoD, which were incredibly 
simple in comparison.
    For VA Education I had to send in a copy of my marriage license and 
statement asking that they stop my Fry Scholarship. That process took 
under a month. DIC needed to be stopped for me and transferred to my 
children. I promptly reported my remarriage within 30 days of receiving 
my Marriage License. I faxed the VA my statement of remarriage, the VA 
21-534a (transferring partial DIC to my children), a copy of my DD 
1300, and my new marriage license. I was told this process would take 8 
to 12 weeks.
    I did my due diligence and provided the required information in a 
timely manner per VA policy. I then spent the next seven months making 
phone calls, getting my file flagged multiple times, faxing another 
copy of my paperwork directly to the processing center, getting TAPS 
involved, and even a Congressional inquiry, just to get someone to open 
the file and even begin the process five months later. I did everything 
short of closing my bank account to stop the payments in my name. There 
was no way that a reasonable person could look at all these events and 
say that I did not do my part in a timely manner, acting in good faith, 
to prevent an overpayment within the VA's own guidelines.
    Nearly 10 months after I remarried, my DIC finally stopped. I then 
received a letter of debt for over $12,000. I disputed this debt as it 
occurred not by me failing to do my part, per VA policy, but the VA 
failing to fulfill their own processing timeline. Five years later, I 
sat before a Veterans Law Judge for the Board of Veterans' Appeals and 
laid this all out. I eventually received a letter stating the debt was 
forgiven since I clearly made every effort possible to stop my 
benefits. Every surviving spouse that remarries will get a debt from 
the VA no matter how timely we submit our documents due to the method 
that VA uses in processing claims. Most of our community trusts that 
the VA will process their forms in a timely manner and just accepts the 
thousands of dollars of debt that are incurred while they wait.

DIC for High School Survivors

    When surviving children turn 18 while still in high school, they 
are required to submit VA Form 21-674 60 days before their birthday to 
prevent a break in pay. This form serves to inform VA that even though 
they turned 18, they are still in high school and remain dependent. Our 
children are not filing new claims, they are simply stating that they 
are still in high school, yet VA cannot figure out how to process these 
claims in a timely manner. The forms themselves are one of the overall 
issues. On the form they are required to include their high school 
graduation date. There is no place on the form to include the date that 
they would be starting college and utilizing a VA education benefit. 
There is also not a question asking if they will be going to college 
and not using VA educational benefits. Additionally, there is no 
direction regarding who should sign the form, the parent, or the minor 
child (they are not 18 when the form needs to be submitted).
    My four adult children that have gone through the process of 
turning 18 on DIC have each faced a different barrier to getting DIC 
continued. My oldest three (2 December and 1 January birthday) did not 
receive a payment at all until after they graduated high school and 
received back pay. Alexis had her form returned because I had signed 
the form since she wasn't 18 when we had to mail it in 60 days early. 
Hers took five months to process. Jon was denied his DIC, like his Fry 
benefits, as the processor determined his dad was not deceased. A few 
months later I inquired about hardship. We were informed since he was 
not homeless or behind on his bills, he did not meet the criteria of 
financial hardship for expedited processing. Our surviving children are 
losing a large portion of their income for months during the most 
expensive year of high school; I'd consider that a financial hardship. 
He received his back pay nine months later. Chloe got her back pay 
seven months after her birthday. Aiden submitted his paperwork this 
past August for an October birthday and is still waiting for it to be 
processed. We called VA at the beginning of December when his payment 
was not received and were told that VAR put his paperwork in the 
national queue November 24th and that no one has looked at it. The PCR 
did put in a request to process the claim, but he told us not to expect 
it to be processed soon, as claims in that queue aren't regularly 
checked. This is also causing a debt (that we will have to pay back) on 
his minor sister's side as her pay has increased by $200 since his 
payment stopped.
    The biggest surprise that we had during this call was the identity 
verification questions. Aiden can't even remember his own social 
security number, and was told that if the representative heard me give 
him the security answers-what are your dads service dates, his social 
security number, or branch of service-they would disconnect the call. 
At 18 how many of you would be able to provide those answers without 
prompting?
    In addition, Aiden, like many of our surviving children, has been 
awarded a full tuition scholarship from the University of Alabama. He 
should be able to save his VA education benefits for graduate school 
and keep his DIC while attending undergraduate, in lieu of the Fry 
Scholarship. However, our children are only paid DIC through the month 
they graduate high school, even though VA policy states that they can 
receive this benefit until they begin utilizing education benefits.
    None of my children have ever been paid past their graduation 
month. In all my children's cases VA had still not even paid them from 
the time they turned 18 to graduation, when they actually graduated. 
Surviving children are losing two to three months of earned DIC just 
over the gap between graduation and fall semester. Is the VA going to 
require them to make ANOTHER new claim on their graduation day to cover 
the summer months or use during college? The process can be simplified 
by asking the right questions on the form, and not sticking our 
children's claims in the national queue for months before someone looks 
in there and processes the claim.

Parental Status

    If my testimony is not appalling enough for members of this 
committee; current laws and policies set forth for surviving spouses, 
deem that I am no longer my children's parent. Per VA policy, as the 
only living parent to my children, I am only their fiduciary. Can you 
imagine what it's like to call into VA or DoD trying to find an answer 
to a problem with your children's benefits and being told that you are 
not privileged to any access beyond taking care of their financial 
needs. Many of the current VA and DoD policies rescinded my access when 
I remarried, even with having dependent children under my 
``guardianship'' that remains eligible for benefits. This effectively 
rendered my children benefits inaccessible since they ``have access'' 
that they can't access due to being minors. Had I divorced my husband 
before his death or had children with him and not been married and he 
had granted me access prior to his death; I would still have this 
access upon my remarriage.
    It's not just the loss of money that a surviving spouse loses when 
they remarry, its the ability to advocate for our children. Imagine 
your child is 9 years old and in the ICU being diagnosed with Type 1 
Diabetes. You are obviously concerned, but you can't speak to the 
insurance about it because you are her guardian, not her parent. This 
means that you must sign a piece of paper giving yourself permission to 
discuss her medical issues. This is because since she isn't 18, she 
can't give you permission, and at 9 she is terrified and wouldn't even 
know where to start. Additionally, Congress fixed the ``Widow Tax'' but 
my children are left in a loophole that requires them to pay SBP taxes 
at a higher tax rate since it is viewed as unearned income for them. I 
am unable to take back the tax burden that unmarried widows now can 
take on themselves.
    This is why surviving spouses are so passionate about the need to 
pass a comprehensive remarriage bill for surviving spouses. Congress 
has the power to fix so many of the hardships I have described today, 
in a single comprehensive bill. Passing the Love Lives on Act of 2023 
would facilitate access to my children's information, enable me to take 
on their tax burden at a lower rate, and remove a tremendous income 
barrier created by my husband's service and death that was subsequently 
taken away upon remarriage. While the other challenges could be 
resolved by VA simply fixing its process for processing claims.
    Thank you for the opportunity to share some of my experience here 
today, and I look forward to answering any questions you may have.
                                 ______
                                 

             Prepared Statement of Ashlynne Haycock-Lohmann

    The Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors (TAPS) is the national 
provider of comfort, care, and resources to all those grieving the 
death of a military loved one. TAPS was founded in 1994 as a 501(c)(3) 
nonprofit organization to provide 24/7 care to all military survivors, 
regardless of a service member's duty status at the time of death, a 
survivor's relationship to the deceased service member, or the 
circumstances of a service member's death.
    TAPS provides comprehensive support through services and programs 
that include peer-based emotional support, casework, assistance with 
education benefits, and community-based grief and trauma resources, all 
at no cost to military survivors. TAPS offers additional programs 
including, but not limited to: a 24/7 National Military Survivor 
Helpline; national, regional, and community programs to facilitate a 
healthy grief journey for survivors of all ages; and information and 
resources provided through the TAPS Institute for Hope and Healing. 
TAPS extends a significant service to military survivors by 
facilitating meaningful connections to other survivors with shared loss 
experiences.
    In 1994, Bonnie Carroll founded TAPS after the death of her 
husband, Brigadier General Tom Carroll, who was killed along with seven 
other soldiers in 1992 when their Army National Guard plane crashed in 
the mountains of Alaska. Since its founding, TAPS has provided care and 
support to more than 120,000 bereaved military survivors.
    In 2023 alone, 9,611 newly bereaved military survivors connected to 
TAPS for care and services, the most in our 30-year history! This is an 
average of 26 new survivors coming to TAPS each and every day. Of the 
survivors seeking our care in 2023; 34 percent were grieving the death 
of a military loved one to illness, including toxic exposures; 30 
percent were grieving the death of a military loved one to suicide; and 
only 3 percent were grieving the death of a military loved one to 
hostile action.
    As the leading nonprofit organization offering military grief 
support, TAPS builds a community of survivors helping survivors heal. 
TAPS provides connections to a network of peer-based emotional support 
and critical casework assistance, empowering survivors to grow with 
their grief. Engaging with TAPS programs and services has inspired many 
survivors to care for other more newly bereaved survivors by working 
and volunteering for TAPS.
    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and distinguished members of 
the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs, the Tragedy Assistance 
Program for Survivors (TAPS) is grateful for the opportunity to provide 
a statement for the record on issues of importance to the 120,000-plus 
surviving family members of all ages, representing all services, and 
with losses from all causes that we have been honored to serve.
    The mission of TAPS is to provide comfort, care, and resources for 
all those grieving the death of a military loved one, regardless of the 
manner of death, the duty status at the time of death, the survivor's 
relationship to the deceased, or the survivor's phase in their grief 
journey. Part of that commitment includes advocating for improvements 
in programs and services provided by the U.S. federal government--the 
Department of Defense (DOD), Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), 
Department of Education (DoED), Department of Labor (DOL), and 
Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)--and state and local 
governments.
    TAPS and the VA have mutually benefited from a long-standing, 
collaborative working relationship. In 2014, TAPS and the VA entered 
into a Memorandum of Agreement that formalized their partnership with 
the goal of providing earlier and expedited access to crucial survivor 
services. In 2023, TAPS and the VA renewed and expanded their formal 
partnership to better serve our survivor community. TAPS works with 
military and veteran survivors to identify, refer, and apply for 
resources available within the VA, including education, burial, 
benefits and entitlements, grief counseling, and survivor assistance.
    TAPS also works collaboratively with the VA and DOD Survivors 
Forum, which serves as a clearinghouse for information on government 
and private-sector programs and policies affecting surviving families. 
Through its quarterly meetings, TAPS shares information on its programs 
and services as well as fulfills any referrals to support all those 
grieving the death of a military and veteran loved one.
    TAPS President and Founder Bonnie Carroll served on the Department 
of Veterans Affairs Federal Advisory Committee on Veterans' Families, 
Caregivers, and Survivors, where she chaired the Subcommittee on 
Survivors. The committee advises the Secretary of the VA on matters 
related to veterans' families, caregivers, and survivors across all 
generations, relationships, and veteran statuses. Ms. Carroll is also a 
distinguished recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the 
Nation's highest civilian honor.

DEPENDENCY AND INDEMNITY COMPENSATION FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS

    If a surviving child turns 18 before graduating high school, 
Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC) should continue to be paid 
to the child until their high school graduation. This is not happening. 
TAPS has consistently raised this issue with the VA over the past five 
years. Unfortunately, the VA has yet to develop a way to process claims 
for continuation of benefits until graduation in a timely manner, 
delaying payments for these surviving children for 18 months and 
longer. The financial security of our surviving children is fractured 
due to the lack of a reasonable process to file these claims and ensure 
they proceed through the National Work Queue (NWQ).
    Approximately six months before a child turns 18, the VA sends them 
a copy of VA Form 21-674 to complete in order to maintain DIC until 
graduation. VA has stated they cannot legally begin to process these 
forms until the day the child turns 18. Theoretically, at this point, 
the applications should be dropped into the NWQ, but because they are 
supplemental claims, they are not. When the VA finds the application, 
usually three months after the child has turned 18, if the parent 
signed it, they kick it out as they need the child's signature as a 
legal adult. If the child signed it before turning 18, the VA has 
kicked it back requesting it be resubmitted and dated after the child's 
18th birthday. At this point, the application disappears into the VA 
system but does not go into a file or the NWQ. The VA does not have an 
explanation as to why the claim is not progressing beyond it ``hasn't 
dropped into the NWQ.''
    Approximately six to 12 months later, when the claim is processed, 
after repeated calls from the survivor or their representative, and 
usually after the child has graduated high school and started college, 
it's kicked back for a third time. This happens because the student is 
now utilizing VA education benefits and is no longer eligible for DIC, 
despite the claim being for the timeframe between their birthday and 
before they began utilizing VA education benefits. This is the point 
where most survivors give up, because they feel it is not worth 
continuing to try to obtain their benefits.
    In order for the Pension Management Center (PMC) to take immediate 
action to process these student claims, ``the claim needs assignment 
from the NWQ.'' The problem is that these student claims are 
supplemental claims and are not typically dropped in the NWQ. On 
occasion, the PMC has contacted the Office of Field Operations to 
expedite claim assignments to the PMC, but even so, it is on a case-by-
case basis, usually at the request of a VSO or NSO, and still takes 
months for movement on the claim. Most claims to extend benefits for 
surviving children who are adults still in school are well over six 
months to two years.
    We have seen three methods to extend the benefits work: complete 
the 21-674 Approval of School Attendance; complete the 21-534EZ 
application for DIC; or both. Additionally, sometimes the forms 
completed by the parent are accepted; other times the requirement of 
the child's signature is requested by the VA, or vice versa based on 
the date of the form and the child's 18th birthday. There has been no 
consistency as to which of the above processes work. There has also 
been no consistency as to who is required to sign the form that is 
eventually accepted.
    TAPS elevated this issue to the Veterans Benefits Administration 
(VBA) Under Secretary Josh Jacobs in December 2023. He and his team are 
working to find a more permanent solution, and are awaiting further 
review from the Office of General Counsel (OGC) on a legal path 
forward. We appreciate their attention to resolving this issue 
impacting our surviving families.
    As a temporary solution, TAPS has suggested to survivors that once 
a student turns 18, to avoid years of extended delays as mentioned 
above, the student should complete both the 21-534EZ and the 21-674, to 
bypass the supplemental claim delays in the NWQ. On average, this 
workaround usually takes three to six months, but this is not a real or 
permanent fix.

To break it down, a case example of an actual surviving child who 
``gave up'' after three years of trying:

    A surviving child's Army retiree father succumbed to a service-
connected illness in November 2018. Prior to turning 18 in August 2019, 
his mother had been receiving DIC benefits on the child's behalf.

      September 2019: Because the child was enrolled in school 
and not accessing VA education benefits, TAPS confirmed with the VA the 
adult child submitted the VA Form 21-674 Request for Approval of School 
Attendance, the VA Form 21-674b School Attendance Report, the VA Form 
21-686c Application to Request to Add and/or Remove Dependents, and the 
updated Direct Deposit notice.

                  About a week later the Pension Management 
                Center (PMC) advised TAPS ``one of the coaches would 
                review the claim.''

      December 2019: The VA advised that there had been ``no 
activity'' regarding the DIC claim.

      January 2020: BVA liaison told TAPS and the survivor ``to 
call the VA hotline'' and to involve the liaison ``when the matter is 
urgent or an emergency,'' but also confirmed there are ``no updates 
available on the status of the DIC claim.''

      February 2020: The VA advised that the adult student now 
needed to submit his own VA Form 21-534 Application for Dependency and 
Indemnity Compensation, Survivors Pension, and Accrued Benefits by a 
Surviving Spouse or Child to apply for DIC ``in his own right.''

      May 2020: The VA confirmed the mother was not receiving 
benefits for the adult student since he reached the age of maturity. 
Additionally, the VA advised the VA Form 21-674 could not be used to 
``continue'' his DIC award, but then also said there was no 21-674b on 
file to show he was enrolled in college. Later that month, the VA then 
recommended the adult child also submit the VA Form 21-534a Application 
for Dependency and Indemnity Compensation by a Surviving Spouse or 
Child In-Service Death Only and stated the original submission of the 
VA Form 21-674 ``only complicated things.''

      July 2020: The VA advised that all the ``paperwork'' was 
received in early June and to expect a ``few months'' to process.

                  While waiting for his DIC to process, the 
                adult student did apply for DEA and started using the 
                benefit.

      August 2020: The VA advised that ``no further action had 
been taken'' in regard to the claim.

      September 2020: The VA advised there ``was no update as 
of yet'' in regard to the unpaid DIC claim.

      October 2020: The VA advised the claim ``was still 
pending.''

                  Late October: The VA advised because he 
                started using DEA, he was not eligible for DIC. TAPS 
                raised the question of the unpaid months for DIC 
                between the time his father passed before he started 
                using DEA, as he was enrolled in school the entire time 
                and would be eligible.

                       The VA provided the additional response 
                that the family has ``missed some time requirements''--
                that the mother originally submitted the 21-674, but he 
                was already 18. On June 20, the VA received his 21-
                534EZ along with the 21-674, and the 21-674b which was 
                not signed by the school. The student started using DEA 
                in August 2019, so the VA denied his claim for DIC due 
                to receiving education benefits. TAPS again questioned 
                the unpaid DIC between November 2018 (when the veteran 
                passed) and August 2019 (when the child started using 
                DEA).

      Late October 2020: The adult formally submitted the VA 
Form 20-0995 Decision Review Request: Supplemental Claim, VA Form 21-
4138 Statement in Support of Claim, VA Form 21-674 Request for Approval 
of School Attendance, and VA Form 21-674b School Attendance Report for 
the ongoing unpaid DIC benefits prior to accessing DEA benefits. The 
VBA confirmed receipt on November 4, 2020.

      November 2020: The VA confirmed the documents were 
``entered into the system on November 17, 2020.'' The VA advised it was 
in the ``National Work Queue'' and would ``likely be resolved within 
the next several weeks.''

      January 2021: The VA advised the claim had been 
``assigned to a specific office, however, there was no final 
determination as of yet.''

                  Later that month, the VA advised there were 
                again concerns with the VA Form 21-674b being 
                incomplete and that an updated Direct Deposit form was 
                required.

                  The adult student again resubmitted the VA 
                Form 21-674b School Attendance Report and the VA Form 
                29-0309 Direct Deposit Enrollment/Change.

      February 2021: The VA advised they had sent a letter 
dated January 19, 2021, which stated, ``Since he is already getting his 
DEA, he can't be back paid for the DIC he didn't receive.'' This denial 
was despite his efforts to apply for DIC one week after turning 18, and 
nine months before he started receiving DEA.

                  After this second denial and 18 months of 
                trying, the student gave up trying to ``fight'' for the 
                unpaid DIC benefits.

* VA did pay the child in December 2023 after Under Secretary for 
Benefits, Josh Jacobs, was provided this case example from TAPS.

    The DOD experienced similar problems with executing benefits for 
child option, Survivor Benefit Plan (SBP) recipients, which, for years, 
was a much bigger issue than the DIC issue for transitioning students. 
The Defense Finance Accounting Service (DFAS) rolled out a new process 
in 2019 that is heavily based on an honor system. It recognizes that 
the application and supporting documents required to process benefits 
are legally binding documents. Survivors are expected to report any 
changes related to their eligibility statuses, offering more 
straightforward navigation for survivors and more efficient processing 
for the agency.
    Survivors are no longer required to have their school officially 
certify forms and instead include signatures acknowledging that they 
must immediately notify DFAS if any information needs updating. For 
example, if students transfer schools or discontinue school, reduce 
school attendance to less than full-time, or change their marital 
status, they must contact DFAS to update their information. Survivors 
receive a notification after submission that DFAS received their forms 
along with a case file number. If survivors file these forms 
electronically, assigning a processor and notifying the survivor is 
often a matter of days. If there are any errors with the submitted 
forms, DFAS will often contact survivors and guide what needs to be 
corrected. After updating student annuities, survivors receive a final 
communication confirming the processing of the annuity with the account 
in ``paying status.'' Now that this process is streamlined and filed 
electronically, what used to take up to nine months to address is now 
on average 30 days.
    Surviving families have repeatedly told us that navigating only one 
new form is easy and that electronic filing has prevented payment 
delays. Thus, TAPS highly recommends VA switch to a similar process.
    To help further highlight this important issue, the following are 
personal testimonials from survivors who have been fighting for DIC 
while in high school:

Rebecca Eggers, Surviving Spouse of CPT Daniel W. Eggers, U.S. Army

    ``My son turned 18 in December 2018, during his senior year of high 
school. In January 2019, we faxed the paperwork to the VA to indicate 
he was still in school and that his DIC should continue. In August 
2019, he began using Chapter 33 benefits for college. We received a 
letter in March 2020 indicating that his DIC eligibility was approved 
and he received a retroactive payment for approximately $3,500 for DIC 
for January 2019 through July 2019.

    ``In the spring of 2022, he received notification that an audit was 
done on his account and that he received DIC while also receiving 
education benefits. We filed a dispute; however, we still have not 
received anything back in the mail on whether the debt was resolved. 
Although the retroactive payment was made in 2020, the payment was for 
January through July 2019 when he was not receiving education benefits. 
Had the VA processed the initial student verification in a timely 
manner, rather than taking over a year, the payment would not have 
conflicted.''

Lisa Luttrell, Surviving Spouse of LTC Stuart Luttrell U.S. Army

    ``I actually paid my children so I didn't have to fill out or 
assist them with the paperwork. I just gave them the amount. When I 
called the VA and was told what I had to do to submit, the sheer amount 
of `man hours required' on my part outweighed a few hundred dollars 
apiece. DIC was already awarded and shouldn't require more than one box 
to check.''

DEPENDENCY AND INDEMNITY COMPENSATION FOR HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATES

    Not only is Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC) supposed to 
be paid until a dependent child graduates high school, they are also to 
be paid the months between graduation and starting college, if they 
activate VA education benefits for the following term. VA does not do 
this but instead, DIC is terminated upon graduation from high school. 
Most survivors do continue on to post-secondary education, and as 
eligible surviving students elect VA Education Benefits, that 
application does not extend the DIC for the summer. However, despite 
this being the law, we don't see this being carried out.
    TAPS has yet to identify a single student who was paid during the 
summer months. VA has also stated that they do not have a way to track 
these students as the Education system does not talk with the Pension 
system to determine dates for when a child has graduated high school 
and when they have activated education benefits.

    38 CFR 3.667(b) allows continued DIC benefits through summer break 
when a school child receiving DIC in high school elects DEA/ Fry 
Scholarship starting with the fall school year. Continued payment of 
DIC is warranted only if there is no break in school beyond summer. If 
the child took the fall semester off or a gap year, then DIC ends with 
high school. Adjudication procedures for VA field stations on this 
topic are found in M21-1 III.iii.6.C.2.b

    To help further highlight this important issue, the following are 
personal testimonials from survivors who have been fighting for DIC 
while in high school:

Monica Jaikaran, Surviving Spouse of MA1 Dameshvar Jaikaran, U.S. Navy

    ``My daughter turned 18 years old, then graduated the next day. So 
I lost all of her benefits all in the same month. Since she moved out 
of the State for college, it was very difficult for me financially. It 
would have helped tremendously to continue receiving DIC since she was 
still in my home and I had to pay for her housing, food, medical bills, 
plus moving costs to the university out of state.''

Colleen Evans, Surviving Spouse of CW2 Mark Evans Jr., U.S. Army

    ``My kids definitely did not get paid after graduation. It 
literally stopped that month. My son, Ronan, used Chapter 35 benefits 
for a year, but we realized he didn't need to so we applied for DIC his 
second year and he was denied. I helped with the appeal stating that he 
was not using any VA education benefits, therefore he was eligible for 
DIC. Again he was denied, so we gave up.

    ``My daughter, Zoe, used Chapter 35 benefits for a semester. It was 
going to supplement whatever Princeton did not. Since it was the first 
semester, we didn't know what sort of random fees might exist. But it 
turns out if you use a VA benefit, Princeton lowers the grant amount so 
she stopped using it. We then applied for her DIC to start again and it 
was denied. She's a senior now, starting her last semester and I'm 
still mad they didn't pay her all these years. She could have used that 
money. Same for Ronan, whose name was even misspelled as Roman on the 
letters we received.''

REMARRIAGE LETTERS

    Each year, the VA sends a letter inquiring about remarriage status, 
and surviving spouses must respond to confirm their marital status. DIC 
benefits are terminated for those whose letters are incorrectly 
completed or not received by the VA. Surviving spouses frequently 
express to TAPS the difficulties they face and the emotional distress 
they experience upon receiving these letters from the VA to maintain 
their receipt of Dependency and Indemnity Compensation. The VA's 
inconsistent practice of sending annual letters to all surviving 
spouses is stressful and frustrating. Surviving spouses often don't 
anticipate receiving these letters and lack a straightforward way to 
confirm whether the VA received their responses. Consequently, many are 
unaware of any issues until their DIC payments cease. Once benefits are 
halted, it can take two to four months for the VA to reinstate them, 
leading to significant financial challenges for surviving spouses 
reliant on these benefits as their sole source of income.

    Here are some stories of surviving spouses who have not remarried 
and still had their benefits turned off:

Torey Sonka, Surviving Spouse of Cpl David Sonka, U.S. Marine Corps

    ``I never received my yearly remarriage letter from the VA because 
they sent it to an address I haven't lived at in almost nine years. I 
would never have known anything was wrong until they stopped payment. I 
was informed that I actually had a debt for the sum total of every 
payment they had made to me since my husband's death in 2013 because I 
had not filled out this form.

    ``My local VA office was incredibly helpful and walked me through 
the process, but it required me taking the entire day off of work and a 
large amount of paperwork to file an appeal since I have not remarried. 
I had used my husband's GI Bill a few years ago, so the education 
portion of the VA had my correct mailing address, but not the Office of 
Pension and Fiduciary Services. It took almost four months, but I 
finally got the appeal approved and was retroactively repaid for the 
months they stopped payment. A debt of over $100,000 terrified me, and 
I lost a payment I rely on each month until it was resolved.''

Morgan Zimmerman, Surviving Spouse of SSG Sonny Zimmerman, U.S. Army

    ``My husband was `killed in action' in July 2013. By January 2014, 
my benefits had already stopped because I didn't send back the 
paperwork that VA mailed to me in September asking if I had remarried 
yet. I asked them why I would need to fill it out again since I just 
applied in early August after he died. Needless to say, I filled it 
out, but was told it could take 60-90 days for my benefits to be 
reinstated. After that, I looked for the letter every September. A few 
years later VA did not send a letter, so I called and was told I didn't 
need to do it anymore. Then they started sending it again. This past 
year I got two. One for me and one for my daughter, who is a minor. 
There is no communication, no consistency, and no sympathy.''

REMARRIED SURVIVING SPOUSE BENEFITS

    When a surviving spouse remarries before the age of 55, they are 
legally required to notify the VA to discontinue Dependency and 
Indemnity Compensation (DIC). The VA states that the processing time 
for these claims is typically eight to 12 weeks, but unfortunately, 
this is not consistently the case. Numerous surviving spouses 
experience delays ranging from six to 18 months, with some cases taking 
up to 42 months, in their efforts to terminate their benefits. They 
often encounter the need to make multiple calls, resend paperwork 
repeatedly, and are frequently informed that their file hasn't been 
reviewed even six months after submission.
    As these survivors continue to receive payments, they subsequently 
receive debt letters demanding the immediate repayment of benefits, 
often with added interest. This places an undue burden on surviving 
spouses who followed the required procedures. The challenge is 
exacerbated by the fact that many surviving spouses, often with minor 
children, are unaware of the specific portions of the payments they are 
supposed to retain and which portions should cease. Additionally, they 
may lack the financial resources to repay the VA promptly.

    Here are some stories of surviving spouses who remarried but were 
unsuccessful in having VA turn off their benefits:

Mandy Dillard Santiago, Surviving Spouse of SGT Anibal Santiago Jr., 
U.S. Army

    ``When I remarried, I called and reported the new marriage along 
with faxing in my marriage certificate. I called several times a month 
to check on the status. During one phone call a VA representative even 
told me I was still eligible for my benefits, but I knew this was 
incorrect. I was paid DIC for a year following my new marriage. I 
finally received a letter stating I owed a year's worth of DIC along 
with the options to repay it.''

Shannon Mann-Alvarenga, Surviving Spouse of 1st Lt Jason Mann, U.S. 
Marine Corps

    ``When I remarried, I notified DFAS and the VA of my remarriage. I 
had heard that since I had a daughter the payments would pretty much 
even themselves out, so I didn't think too much of it, because I still 
needed the payments to provide for my daughter. Two years later I 
received a letter stating that I owed $48,000 and I needed to pay 
within 10 days. Not being able to make that kind of payment and unable 
to get a hold of someone from the VA in 2014, it went into collections, 
and on my credit report. At the same time, I was trying to get a job. 
When I passed the last round of interviews and they pulled my credit 
score, I was denied the job. In order to secure employment, I pulled 
money from my retirement savings to pay it off, leaving me in more 
financial hardship.''

Shauna Suflet, Surviving Spouse of SGT Gregory Meyers III, U.S. Army

    ``It took over six months for the VA to stop paying me after 
reporting my remarriage. I'm now stuck repaying them for the overage 
after they calculated my portion from my children's benefits. Since I 
still have kids who receive DIC, I had to open fiduciary accounts for 
each of them. The VA audited the spending after three months of 
receiving benefits in those fiduciary accounts. Now that I'm remarried, 
I'm not trustworthy enough to take care of my own children, and I have 
to jump through time-consuming hoops? I'm quite offended by this in 
particular, which never happened in the six-years prior to my 
remarriage.''

TAPS recommends immediate passage of the Love Lives On Act which allows 
surviving spouses to maintain DIC upon remarriage at any age.

ENTRY POINTS INTO VA FOR SURVIVORS

    In the event of the death of an active-duty service member, the 
Department of Defense (DOD) takes the initiative to reach out to the 
family, guiding them through available benefits and programs. This 
proactive approach from the DOD ensures that surviving families 
comprehend the support provided by both the DOD and the VA, along with 
the appropriate contacts for addressing future concerns. The DOD is 
able to offer this assistance because it possesses the contact 
information of family members prior to the service member's passing.
    In contrast, the VA lacks a similar capability as it does not track 
family members who are not currently receiving benefits. Prior to the 
death of their veteran, family members are generally not receiving VA 
benefits, so the burden falls on the grieving family member to 
determine eligibility for benefits, identify the right contacts for 
inquiries, and navigate the application process.
    Non-active-duty surviving spouses are expected to navigate the same 
entry points as veterans, such as the VA's general helpline. However, 
they often encounter challenges, receiving inaccurate information or 
being told they are ineligible for benefits during their initial call. 
This leads to survivors hesitating to return to the VA for assistance. 
The issue arises from the fact that survivors represent only one 
percent of those receiving VA services, resulting in a lack of 
awareness among VA staff about survivor benefit programs. In cases 
where staff members are uncertain, they may provide what they ``think'' 
is the answer rather than acknowledging their uncertainty.
    The VA's Office of Survivor Assistance (OSA) would be the logical 
entry point, but far too many survivors don't even know it exists until 
organizations like TAPS reach out to OSA on their behalf. Expanding 
OSA--a small office with only three staff members--would help make the 
survivor experience more manageable and alleviate many challenges. If 
the OSA was funded and staffed appropriately, it could easily operate 
in a similar manner to DOD's Office of Casualty and Mortuary Affairs. 
OSA could become the gateway for surviving families who should be 
eligible for VA benefits and programs.
    OSA was created in 2008 to serve as a resource for all surviving 
family members regarding benefits and care provided by the VA. 
Unfortunately, this office has been bounced around VA for the past 15 
years, making it difficult to fulfill that mission. When the office was 
first created, it was placed within the Office of the Secretary, but 
has since been moved under the Veterans Benefits Administration in 
2015, then The Veterans Experience Office in 2017, followed by a move 
to The Office of Outreach, Transition and Economic Development in 2021, 
and most recently the office has been placed under the Pension and 
Fiduciary Service in June 2023.
    OSA has been treated as if the only benefits survivors receive are 
compensation. Currently, OSA staff only have access to DIC and Pension, 
therefore they are unable to assist with many issues survivors face, to 
include burial benefits, education benefits, CHAMPVA, Survivors Group 
Life Insurance, home loans, or additional programs and benefits 
survivors are eligible to receive. Because they do not have access to 
those programs or claims, OSA has to outsource requests related to 
anything other than DIC and Pension, and primarily outsource them to 
TAPS and our casework assistance program as we do have the ability to 
access those programs on behalf of survivors.
    TAPS strongly believes that OSA should be elevated to the Office of 
the Under Secretary for Benefits and granted access to all programs and 
services survivors are eligible to receive. With more than 465,000 
survivors currently eligible for DIC, OSA staffing should be 
significantly increased to better serve surviving families. OSA should 
be the official entry point into VA for survivors, with the bandwidth, 
expertise, and access needed to answer any and all challenges that 
survivors face regarding VA benefits and services. There should also be 
a dedicated survivor helpline to provide access to trained agents with 
the knowledge to address survivor issues. We applaud VA for 
implementing an education-specific helpline for survivors in 2019, 
which has been a huge success.
    The limited awareness among survivors regarding OSA highlights the 
need for VA to more effectively communicate and promote this survivor 
program to deliver on its sacred mission, ``To fulfill President 
Lincoln's promise to care for those who have served in our nation's 
military and their families, caregivers, and survivors.''
    Increasing OSA staffing, elevating its status, and establishing it 
as the official entry point into VA would drastically improve 
accessibility and increase survivors' trust in the VA and the care and 
benefits they receive from them.

Melissa Alex, Surviving Spouse of SSGT Eugene Alex, U.S. Army

    ``The Office of Survivor Assistance was established in 2008 to 
serve as an outreach regarding benefits and services for our families. 
I didn't know for years that they existed. I found out only because I 
am a service provider with the Michigan National Guard, not because 
they reached out to me and my children personally!''

Sadie Clardy, Surviving Spouse of TSgt Michael Clardy, U.S. Air Force

    ``My husband passed in 2017 and I had never heard of OSA until 
learning about them from TAPS. I had to Google the Office of Survivor 
Assistance to find out about their services. Without that search, I 
would not be able to tell you anything about OSA, not even who they're 
affiliated with. I'm still a little hazy as to what role they may be 
able to play in supporting me and my children.''

PACT ACT-RELATED NUMBERS

    The Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Honoring Our Promise to 
Address Comprehensive Toxics (PACT) Act was signed into law by 
President Biden on August 10, 2022. This historic law ensures veterans 
of multiple generations who were exposed to burn pits, toxins, and 
airborne hazards while deployed are eligible to apply for immediate, 
lifelong access to VA health care and benefits for their families, 
caregivers, and survivors.
    The passage of the PACT Act is a victory, but the work does not 
stop. Each year, more survivors whose loved ones died due to toxic 
exposure-linked illness connect with TAPS for grief support and help 
navigating their benefits. Of the survivors seeking our care in 2023, 
34 percent were grieving the death of a military loved one due to 
illness, including toxic exposures. TAPS remains committed to promoting 
a better shared understanding of illnesses that may result from 
exposure to toxins and ensuring survivors of illness loss receive the 
benefits they deserve.
    TAPS is working with the VA to encourage toxic-exposed veterans and 
survivors to file a claim for PACT-related benefits or apply for VA 
health care. The VA began accepting veteran and survivor PACT-related 
claims on August 10, 2022 and began processing claims on January 1, 
2023. To date, the VA has received a total of 1,336,334 PACT-related 
claims from veterans and survivors (08/10/2022-01/13/2024).\1\
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    \1\ https://department.va.gov/pactdata/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/
2024/01/VA-PACT-Act-Dashboard-Issue-25-011924_final-508.pdf

    The VA estimates there are 382,000 potential survivors who may be 
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eligible for PACT-related benefits:

      146,000 potential DIC claims based on previously denied 
deceased veterans' claims

      236,000 potential DIC claims based on previously denied 
survivors' claims

    As of January 13, 2024, the total number of survivor PACT-related 
claims that have been submitted to the VA is 22,582; of those, 14,873 
have been completed and 7,976 have been approved.\2\
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    \2\ https://department.va.gov/pactdata/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/
2024/01/VA-PACT-Act-Dashboard-Issue-25-011924_final-508.pdf
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    TAPS renewed our Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) with the VA and is 
partnering with them to continue to help identify, educate, and 
encourage survivors who lost their loved ones as a result of toxic 
exposure to submit PACT-related claims. We remain committed to working 
with Congress and the VA to ensure toxic-exposed veterans and their 
survivors receive their earned benefits and health care.
    The VA has conducted extensive outreach and messaging campaigns 
across the country to reach both veterans and survivors. The number of 
veterans applying for PACT-related benefits has well surpassed one 
million (1,313,752 as of 01/13/2024), but the number of survivors 
applying for PACT-related benefits still remains lower than expected 
considering the potential survivor number of 382,000. The VA has sent 
letters to 285,000 of these survivors urging them to resubmit a claim 
for potential benefits.
    During a meeting with the VA late last year, we were informed that 
the VA does not track cause of death, therefore the 382,000 potentially 
impacted survivors includes all manners of death, including those who 
died of old age, by suicide, or in car accidents, not just those filing 
claims related to toxic exposure. This helps to explain why after 
extensive outreach by the VA and organizations like TAPS, more 
survivors have not applied for PACT-related benefits. Unfortunately, 
the potential survivor numbers have also informed the Congressional 
Budget Office's (CBO) scoring of current survivor legislation, such as 
the Love Lives On Act and Caring for Survivors Act, almost doubling the 
cost and creating exorbitant scores, making it difficult to find 
funding.

FRY SCHOLARSHIP FOR DUAL ELIGIBLE SURVIVING SPOUSES

    Many surviving spouses also served in the armed services. This 
creates a variety of challenges for them when trying to utilize 
benefits and access files from their own service as well as their late 
spouses.
    One of the most significant challenges the population of dual-
service surviving spouses face is in accessing education benefits. The 
current law states that any months of Montgomery GI Bill (Chapter 30) 
utilized count against months of the Post 9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33). In 
many cases, our dual-service surviving spouses may have utilized their 
own benefits under Chapter 30 prior to the passing of their spouse but 
need to retrain and would like to utilize their survivor education 
benefits under Chapter 33 to do so. They then find out that they cannot 
utilize the Fry Scholarship because they used their own Montgomery GI 
Bill benefits.
    To make it even more complicated, if that survivor had used 
benefits under the Post 9/11 GI Bill as a veteran, they can utilize 
their full entitlement under the Fry Scholarship because veterans 
Chapter 33 does not count against survivor Chapter 33 if the sponsor is 
not the same. Additionally, surviving children who are veterans are not 
penalized either and are allowed to utilize all the education benefits 
under their late parent and acquire benefits under their own service as 
well, so this only applies to surviving spouses who specifically used 
the Montgomery GI bill.
    Most of these surviving spouses were in careers that they could no 
longer continue due to their own loss and trauma or a career that may 
not be viable as a single parent. In other cases, they are looking to 
advance their own education and income as they are now the sole 
breadwinner for their family. While VA does support extending education 
benefits to our dual-service surviving spouses, they do not have the 
authority currently, and a technical fix is needed. While we know this 
is a small population, the fix would be massively significant to those 
survivors impacted.

Jazmin Ojeda, Surviving Spouse of SPC Ramon Ojeda, U.S. Army

    ``I was denied the Fry Scholarship because I used my own Montgomery 
GI Bill benefits, making it very difficult to go to school full time. I 
used my own benefits because I was told my survivor education benefits 
expire, if not used after 10 or 15 years after his death. This doesn't 
make sense since I couldn't use my survivor benefits on active duty. 
The system is broken.''

Laura Youngblood, Surviving Spouse of HM3 Travis L. Youngblood, U.S. 
Navy

    ``I was using my own GI Bill when my husband was `killed in 
action'. I used up my GI Bill a semester into getting my BSN. I talked 
to the school, and called the VA and asked why I couldn't use my 
husband's GI Bill like all the other widows were able to do. The 
response I got was, `You are only allocated one GI Bill,' but I served 
for `my' GI Bill just like my husband. I feel like dual-active couples 
are penalized. I paid out of pocket which took me six years to finish 
school and receive my BSN.

    ``I enlisted in the Army before my husband was killed, and hearing 
the VA constantly use the term, `double dipping' as the reason why I 
can't use both benefits separately and to their full extent is 
infuriating. I'm being penalized for something that happened AFTER I 
enlisted. My benefits are my own, completely separate from those that 
came from my husband's sacrifice. Why does my husband's death have to 
be used against me to diminish my own service? Our children don't have 
these rules if they decide to enlist. They're able to use both benefits 
fully without any restrictions.''

CERTIFICATE OF ELIGIBILITY FOR EDUCATION BENEFITS ERRORS

    Under the Forever GI Bill, all Fry Scholarship eligible children 
whose loss occurred on or after January 1, 2013, OR who turned 18 on or 
after January 1, 2013, are not supposed to have a delimiting date, yet 
in close to half of the Certificates of Eligibility TAPS has seen this 
past year, the VA is still listing a delimiting date for the students 
leading to confusion for students on whether their benefits do or do 
not expire.
    In addition, when the removal of the delimiting date for Chapter 35 
benefits went into effect in August 2023, neither RPO implemented it 
nor even seemed aware that it was the new law. TAPS would also like to 
point out that while we see lots of errors on Certificates of 
Eligibility for survivors, an overwhelming percentage of those come 
from the Buffalo RPO, not Muskogee.

    TAPS recommends moving all Chapter 35 and Fry Scholarship 
processing to one RPO with specialized claims processing.

    Below are some examples of surviving children who have received 
inaccurate Certificates of Eligibility:

Lauren Stubenhofer Bennett, Surviving Daughter of CPT Mark Stubenhofer, 
U.S. Army

    ``I applied in November 2023 for Chapter 35 benefits to use for 
graduate school. I recently called to check on the status, and it was 
denied. The reason was, `Your beginning date of eligibility was October 
8, 2015. Based on this beginning date, your ending date of eligibility 
was October 8, 2023. We can't pay benefits for any period after this 
date (38 CFR 21.3040 and 21.3041(a)).

    ``I was 15 in 2015. It's incredibly frustrating. I've hit roadblock 
after roadblock trying to use the benefits that they say I'm entitled 
to use. I've had to argue with people over the phone about my dad being 
dead, insisting they need to speak to the service member. I never know 
if my benefits are going to come through or if they are going to 
randomly stop without notice and result in my classes being dropped. I 
am grateful to receive these benefits, but the system needs updating 
because I shouldn't have to argue and fight for them.''

Madison Maiorana, Surviving Daughter of TSgt Mark Maiorana, U.S. Air 
Force

    ``I began using my Fry Scholarship in 2021 when I turned 18, yet I 
have a delimiting date on my Certificate of Eligibility (COE) of 2035. 
Since I turned 18 after January 1, 2013, I should not have a delimiting 
date. This is unfortunately common in the survivor community because 
our survivors are unaware of their benefits. We are requesting an 
updated COE.''

CHAPTER 35 SUNSET

    Chapter 35 is an outdated education benefit provided by the VA. It 
has been around since the Vietnam War and has not had any major 
improvements since then. The Forever GI Bill increased education 
benefits by $200 per month; however, that remains nearly half of the 
amount paid by the Montgomery GI Bill, and far less than the Post-9/11 
GI Bill and Fry Scholarship. The current Chapter 35 rate of $1,488 per 
month is not enough to cover tuition, fees, and living expenses for 
most students and leads to surviving spouses and children needing to 
take out student loans to assist with expenses.

TAPS requests Congress:

      Introduce legislation to consolidate all remaining 
education benefits for survivors under Chapter 33.

    TAPS recommends sunsetting Chapter 35 and moving all qualified 
recipients to Chapter 33, even if it is on a lower scale, such as 70 
percent as opposed to 100 percent of the benefit. Benefits under the 
Survivors' and Dependents' Educational Assistance (DEA) program are 
significantly lower than the Post-9/11 GI Bill, Fry Scholarship, and 
Montgomery GI Bill. Those using DEA are limited to dependents of a 100 
percent disabled veteran, those who died of a service-connected death, 
and those who died before 9/11.
    Not only would sunsetting Chapter 35 simplify the VA approval 
process, but it would also ensure that all survivors are receiving 
adequate educational benefits.

    The following personal testimonials from survivors help highlight 
these education benefit issues:

Susan Williams, Surviving Spouse of Maj Thomas M. Williams, Jr., U.S. 
Air Force, Ret.

    ``My husband, Tom, started experiencing symptoms of cardiomyopathy 
after retiring, and while transitioning to the VA medical system. His 
death was deemed service-connected, so we are eligible for Chapter 35/ 
DEA. He was 138 days post-service when he passed. The difference 
between the Fry Scholarship and DEA is substantial. My daughter attends 
Savannah College of Art and Design (SCAD) and has a quarterly tuition 
of $13,365, three quarters a year totals $40,095. This total does not 
include food and housing, which is another $5,400 a quarter, totaling 
$16,200. The DEA/Chapter 35 only pays a prorated amount of roughly 
$10,000 a year. This causes her to take the max student loans and 
parent PLUS loans, upwards of $46,000 each year. 
    ``If we qualified for Fry, we likely would not have to take any 
loans, as SCAD is a Yellow Ribbon school. However, we are both going 
into debt instead. Our suffering was no less than someone who died on 
active duty. Maybe it was even more so since we had to watch him suffer 
through his illness, knowing that he was going to die. The lasting 
impact of physically watching someone die has scarred my children for 
life. They deal with the consequences every day. It is a slap in the 
face that their father's death is not recognized for full education 
benefits.''

Renee Monczynski, Surviving Spouse of PO2 Matthew Monczynski, U.S. Navy

    ``The difference for my daughter between Chapter 35 and Fry for the 
next two years is the constant worry of how we are going to pay for the 
next semester. Waiting to see if she has enough scholarships to cover 
all expenses and scrambling for loans to cover the rest. Every time we 
fill out an application we are reminded that the Navy and our country 
don't care about Matt's sacrifice because it was in June 2001. He died 
on the wrong day for our country to care. That care is reserved for 
those who served and died after 9/11.

    ``We were dual-active. We were both willing and did serve our 
country. But according to a document his sacrifice is not worth a 
college education for our daughter. Nor is my 70 percent VA-rated 
disability. So I'm not broken enough, and he died on the wrong day for 
anyone to care about our sacrifices.''

LOVE LIVES ON ACT OF 2023 (H.R. 3651, S. 1266)

    TAPS is honored to work with members of this committee to pass one 
of our top legislative priorities, the Love Lives On Act of 2023. This 
comprehensive legislation will allow surviving spouses to remarry 
before the age of 55 and retain their benefits. TAPS is grateful to 
Representatives Dean Phillips (D-MN-3) and Richard Hudson (R-NC-9) and 
Senators Jerry Moran (R-KS) and Raphael Warnock (D-GA), for introducing 
this important legislation in the 118th Congress.

    We ask Congress to:

      Remove the arbitrary age of 55 as a requirement for 
surviving spouses to retain benefits after remarrying.

      Allow surviving spouses to retain both the Survivor 
Benefit Plan (SBP) and Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC) upon 
remarriage at any age.

      Allow remarried surviving spouses to maintain access to 
education benefits under the Fry Scholarship and Dependents Education 
Assistance (DEA).

      Allow remarried surviving spouses to retain Commissary 
and Exchange benefits (passed in 2024 NDAA).

      Allow remarried surviving spouses to regain their TRICARE 
benefits if their remarriage ends due to death, divorce, or annulment.

      Remove the ``Hold Themselves Out to Be Married'' clause 
from 38 USC, Section 101, paragraph 3.

    Current law significantly penalizes surviving spouses if they 
choose to remarry before the age of 55. Given that most surviving 
spouses from the post-9/11 era are widowed in their 20's or 30's, we 
are asking them to wait 20-plus years to move forward in their lives. 
They often have children that they must raise alone. Many surviving 
spouses choose not to remarry after the death of their service member 
because the loss of financial benefits would negatively impact them, 
especially those with children. Many choose to cohabitate instead of 
legally remarrying. A long-term goal for TAPS is to secure the right 
for surviving spouses to remarry at any age and retain their benefits. 
TAPS is leading efforts to pass the Love Lives On Act of 2023, which is 
supported by nearly 40 veteran and military organizations. TAPS 
spearheaded a letter of support from these organizations that has been 
shared with every member of this committee.
    Military spouses are among the most unemployed and underemployed 
population in the United States. Due to frequent military moves, 
absence of the service member, and expensive child care, military 
spouses face high barriers to employment and are unable to fully invest 
in their own careers and retirement. For many families, military 
retirement pay is treated as the household's retirement pay. These 
barriers to employment continue when a military spouse becomes a 
surviving spouse. Many surviving spouses have to put their lives on 
hold to raise bereaved children. They are reliant on their survivor 
benefits to help offset the loss of pay for their late spouse and their 
own lost income as a result of military life.
    If a surviving spouse's subsequent marriage ends in death, divorce, 
or annulment, while most benefits can be restored, TRICARE cannot. If a 
surviving spouse was previously eligible for CHAMPVA, that benefit can 
be restored. TAPS is not asking for surviving spouses to maintain 
TRICARE upon remarriage, only that we provide parity with other federal 
programs and allow it to be restored if the subsequent marriage ends.
    These restrictions are punitive and are only imposed on the 
military surviving family, but not others who put their lives on the 
line to protect and defend. For example, in 30 states, including Texas 
\3\, Virginia \4\, and Louisiana \5\, first responders' survivors are 
allowed to legally remarry in the U.S. and maintain all or partial 
pensions and benefits.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ https://www.firehero.org/resources/family-resources/benefits/
local/tx/
    \4\ https://www.firehero.org/resources/family-resources/benefits/
local/va/
    \5\ https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/ac5c0731/files/uploaded/
Louisiana.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In certain circumstances, divorcees are granted more respect than 
surviving spouses. If a service member was married for at least 20 
years and served 20 years, that spouse is entitled to a portion of that 
retirement benefit regardless of whether they remarry or not. Surviving 
spouses should not be penalized for remarrying when we grant the right 
to retain benefits to certain divorced spouses.
    According to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), there are 
approximately 465,000 surviving spouses receiving Dependency and 
Indemnity Compensation (DIC). Less than 65,000 of those surviving 
spouses are under the age of 55 and could potentially benefit from this 
legislation. Currently, less than 5 percent of surviving spouses under 
the age of 55 have chosen to remarry due to these penalties.
    Choosing to remarry should not impact a surviving spouse's ability 
to pay bills. They should not have to choose between another chance at 
love, a stable home life for their children, and financial security. 
They are still the surviving spouse of a fallen service member or 
veteran, who earned these benefits through their service and sacrifice. 
Regardless of their marital status, surviving spouses should not be 
penalized for finding love in the future.
    To help highlight many of these important issues, the following are 
personal testimonials from surviving spouses who have not remarried and 
a surviving spouse who remarried after the age of 55 and retained her 
benefits:

Jacqueline Nourse, Surviving Spouse of SPC Andrew Nourse, U.S. Army

    ``I lost my husband, Andy Nourse, U.S. Army veteran, to PTSD-
related suicide in 2014. I was left alone to raise my children for the 
last nine years. They are now grown and out of the house. I would be 
alone, however, I am lucky enough to have found love again with Jim. He 
is a wonderful man who loves me and my children deeply and honors the 
memory of my husband every chance he gets.

    ``Passing the Love Lives On Act means that my country will keep its 
promise to my family--that my husband's death was a debt that could 
never be repaid, and means that the government will always acknowledge 
me as Andy's widow even if I am Jim's wife. All we are asking for is to 
choose how we move forward after the unthinkable happens.''

Dena Yllescas-Johnston, Surviving Spouse of CPT Roberto Yllescas , U.S. 
Army

    ``When I remarried I knew I would lose my benefits, but I wanted to 
do the `right' thing. I notified both the Department of Defense and VA, 
but because those benefits were not set up by me, and I was in such a 
daze when they were after my husband passed, I did not know which 
benefits were just mine versus which were my daughters. I noticed my 
monthly income had decreased so I thought all was good.

    ``FIVE YEARS LATER, the VA sent me a letter and asked if I had 
remarried. I told them yes and that I had notified them. They said they 
never received it and that I had to pay them back $60,000. Of course, I 
couldn't find proof since I had mailed them the documentation. They 
said if I didn't pay them back SOON that they'd take my house. I was 
trying to do the right thing by marrying my new husband and not just 
living with him. We didn't divorce our husbands, they died. Why do they 
continue to punish us by taking away benefits when we try to move 
forward and bring back a sense of happiness and normalcy for myself and 
my daughters?''

Linda Ambard Rickard, Surviving Spouse of MAJ Phil Ambard, U.S. Army

    ``I became a widow just before my 50th birthday when my husband of 
23 years, Major Phil Ambard, was `killed in action.' For over two 
decades, we moved every two to four years. While I had multiple 
master's degrees and a teaching license, I never progressed beyond 
probation/provisional status at my jobs because we were never in any 
one place long enough. I never got too attached to a home, people, or a 
job because everything was so temporary. When I became a widow, I 
didn't know where to move. I hadn't lived back home in Idaho since 
1979. I was too old to go live with my mom and dad, and too young to 
live with my children, four of whom were in the military. It took me 
years to get my feet on the ground.

    ``I didn't date for many years because I just couldn't. At 57, I 
met the man who would become my husband. I married him just after my 
60th birthday. While I maintain my survivor benefits and survivor 
Social Security, due to my age, I had to give up TRICARE even though I 
now qualify for CHAMPVA. It is ridiculous that younger widows/widowers 
lose everything with remarriage; there is a big difference with the 
magic age of 55.''

CARING FOR SURVIVORS ACT OF 2023 (H.R. 1083, S. 414)

    TAPS remains committed to improving Dependency and Indemnity 
Compensation (DIC) and providing equity with other federal benefits. We 
continue to work with Congress to:

      Pass the Caring for Survivors Act of 2023.

      Increase DIC from 43 percent to 55 percent of the 
compensation rate paid to a 100 percent disabled veteran.

      Reduce the timeframe a veteran needs to be rated totally 
disabled from 10 to five years, allowing more survivors to become 
eligible for DIC benefits.

    More than 465,000 survivors receive DIC from the VA. DIC is a tax-
free monetary benefit paid to eligible surviving spouses, children, or 
parents of service members whose death was in the line of duty or 
resulted from a service-related injury or illness.
    The current monthly DIC rate for eligible surviving spouses is 
$1,612.75 (Dec. 1, 2023), which has only increased due to Cost-of-
Living Adjustments (COLA). TAPS is working to raise DIC from 43 percent 
to 55 percent of the compensation rate paid to a 100 percent disabled 
veteran; ensure the DIC base rate is increased equally: and protect 
added monthly amounts, like the eight-year provision and Aid and 
Attendance.
    TAPS and the survivor community have supported increasing DIC for 
many years, especially for military survivors whose only recompense is 
DIC. We are grateful to Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee Chairman Jon 
Tester (D-MT), Senator John Boozman (R-AR), Congresswoman Jahana Hayes 
(D-CT-5), and Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick (R-PA-1) for introducing 
the Caring for Survivors Act of 2023 (S. 414, H.R. 1083).
    Passing this important legislation in the 118th Congress is a top 
priority for The Military Coalition (TMC) Survivor Committee, co-
chaired by TAPS. TMC consists of 35 organizations representing more 
than 5.5 million members of the uniformed services----active, reserve, 
retired, survivors, veterans, and their families.
    The following statements from survivors demonstrate that stringent 
limitations on DIC payments have financial and widespread impacts on 
housing, transportation, utilities, clothing, food, medical care, 
recreation, and employment for surviving families:

Katie Hubbard, Surviving Spouse of CSM James Hubbard, Jr., U.S. Army

    ``Due to his status at the time of my husband's death, the only 
financial benefit we are eligible for is DIC. CSM James W. Hubbard, Jr. 
died May 21, 2009, while in treatment for leukemia caused by the burn 
pits in Iraq. Having your income cut by more than 60 percent while 
trying to navigate funeral costs, bills that aren't stopping, and 
unexpected ambulance and ER charges nearly took me out too.

    ``My mental health was not conducive to returning to the workplace 
quickly after being his caregiver and dealing with the unexpected loss, 
yet I had to figure out something to make up the income or lose our 
home too. My future, my best friend, and my normal were gone. While a 
12 percent increase doesn't seem like much, any widow living paycheck 
to paycheck can tell you it does. The military is a federal entity, yet 
their survivors are treated less than. Passing the Caring for Survivors 
Act would show military widows that their spouse and themselves are 
cared for and not forgotten.''

Jackie Ferguson, Surviving Spouse of SGT James Ferguson, U.S. Army

    ``I completed my degree before my husband joined the Army. It was a 
blessing I finished. We moved several times before he passed, but I 
found it very difficult to obtain a position using my degree. It seemed 
no one was interested in hiring me because we would be moving 
constantly. In order to work in my field, I drove every day from Fort 
Sill, Oklahoma, to Oklahoma City, which is over an hour each way. I 
think that raising the DIC to 55 percent would help me offset the 
earning potential I have lost due to unemployment and underemployment 
during my husband's service.''

Melissa Evinger, Surviving Spouse of Sgt Barry Evinger, U.S. Marine 
Corps

    ``As a widow and mother of three children, the weight I carry on my 
shoulders is substantial and often paralyzing as I strategize how to 
take care of my children. As a Texas public school teacher, my income 
will never be substantial. I do receive DIC; however, this does not 
come close to what my husband received in disability compensation. 
Because of this, I have to supplement my income by working as a tutor 
before and after school. This all amounts to time I have to be away 
from my children just to ensure we can afford a basic lifestyle.

    ``My husband, children, and I have paid a huge price for our 
country. As the Nation asked my husband to help defend its interests, I 
now ask for your help in return. I respectfully ask you to consider the 
possibility of increasing the amount of DIC for the widows and children 
of the fallen.''

HONOR ALL GOLD STAR FAMILIES

TAPS is working with Congress to:

      Use inclusive language for legislation and establish a 
standard, legal definition of a Gold Star Family, which includes ``died 
while serving or from a service-connected injury or illness.''

    As the national provider of compassionate care and resources for 
all those grieving the death of a military loved one, TAPS appreciates 
the use of inclusive language in all legislation referencing Gold Star 
Families as families of military service members who ``died while 
serving or from a service-connected injury or illness.'' The VA does 
not distinguish by cause of death. There is no differentiation of 
military headstones, the folding of the flag, playing of taps, or 
distribution of government benefits based on geography or circumstances 
of a service member's death, whether they died in combat, by accident, 
an illness related to their service, or by suicide. A service member's 
death is honored and remembered based on their life and service.
    While there is no legal definition of Gold Star Family anywhere in 
statute, there are over 30 references to Gold Star Families varying 
from ``killed by hostile action'' to ``died in the line of duty'' to 
our preferred definition, ``died while serving or from a service-
connected injury or illness.'' Congress should establish a definition 
to ensure all future legislation and programs are consistent, and that 
all Gold Star Families are honored equally.
    The failure to have a legal, consistent definition will continue to 
cause challenges for lawmakers when writing legislation impacting Gold 
Star Families as well. TAPS has seen many times Members of Congress 
introduce bills and either make up their own definitions--which DOD and 
VA cannot implement, as it is not something they can track--or use too 
narrow language and unintentionally exclude survivors that we then have 
to go back and fix. Having a consistent, legal definition would ensure 
any future legislative proposals improve benefits for all surviving 
families.
    Gold Star Wives of America (GSW) and American Gold Star Mothers, 
Inc. are both congressionally Chartered Nonprofit Organizations and use 
the same broad, inclusive language to define Gold Star for their 
membership criteria. The current GSW President is not a combat loss 
survivor, and First Lady, Dr. Jill Biden is eligible to join American 
Gold Star Mothers, Inc. based on her son, Beau Biden's death being 
service-connected.
    The following testimonials from surviving family members highlight 
the importance of recognizing all Gold Star Families who have lost a 
loved one to military service:

MaryAnne Kerr, Surviving Spouse of GySgt Cory Kerr, U.S. Marine Corps

    ``My husband, Corey, was an infantryman in the U.S. Marine Corps 
and proudly served his country for nearly 19 years. He fought in three 
wars and was a Purple Heart recipient. His life ended tragically by 
suicide on June 11, 2022, two days after his 37th birthday. My husband 
received an honorable military funeral and we were given the `Next of 
Kin' lapel pins.

    ``To make matters worse, I am fueled with anger and disgust that we 
are not considered a `Gold Star' family because my husband did not die 
in a combat zone. My husband may not have died in those wars 
physically, but he died there psychologically. He lived the rest of his 
life with guilt, pain, and sorrow. I am not asking to receive a `Gold 
Star' lapel pin but rather the title `Gold Star Family.' Give my 
husband the honor he deserves, and allow his family to live with the 
comfort of knowing his sacrifice and service to his great nation is 
recognized and respected.''

Kathy Maiorana, Surviving Spouse of TSgt Mark Maiorana, U.S. Air Force

    ``I was once asked by another widow, while we looked at a memorial 
for the fallen, why I was so upset. When I told her it was because my 
husband's name will never be on a memorial, she responded, `Well, he 
shouldn't be.'

    ``I've been a suicide widow for 18 years. During those 18 years, I 
cannot count how many times my family, including my four children, have 
been left out of different memorials or events because of the way my 
husband died. Suicide has been seen as a stigma amongst veterans and 
their families for as long as I have been part of military life. 
Suicide has made not only my husband invisible in the eyes of military 
families, but also deemed his family's suffering as less than others 
who have also lost. In the eyes of many, it doesn't matter how long or 
to what extent someone has served, but simply how they died. Even 
though my husband's life ended a certain way, that does not make his 
contributions to this country any less.''

Melissa Perritt, Surviving Spouse of William Perritt, U.S. Air Force, 
Ret.

    ``I lost my husband of 19 1/2 years, William Barron, on March 13, 
2010, from service-connected lung cancer. My husband served on active 
duty for 20 years. He lost his battle with cancer 20 months after he 
retired.

    ``We desperately needed support and resources to assist us as we 
learned how to move forward without him. We found TAPS, Wounded Warrior 
Project, and Children of Fallen Patriots the most helpful and 
supportive for us. Unfortunately, other organizations told us that we 
did not `qualify' to be a `Gold Star Family' because he did not die 
while serving on active duty. Hearing this felt like a gut punch. My 
husband gave ALL in the service of our country, but we were treated as 
if we were `second class' surviving family members.

    ``My husband's wounds from the deployments may not have been 
visible from the outside, and it certainly did not make the evening 
news when he died, but they were absolutely as deadly as what takes the 
life of someone killed in combat. I believe that military members and 
veterans who die from a service-connected illness deserve to have their 
surviving family members receive the same honor and support as those 
who die in combat. Every military member and veteran's life lost has 
the same value. Every surviving family member is walking through deep 
grief and has to learn how to go on without their loved one. Not 
including service-connected illness deaths as `Gold Star' sends a 
strong message to those surviving family members: `Your loved one's 
life was not as valuable.' ''

TAPS OVERALL RECOMMENDATIONS

    While we know these are just a few of the many issues that our 
surviving families face when accessing care and benefits through the 
VA, to recap, the following are TAPS recommendations that would help 
fix some of these issues:

        1. Move all Chapter 35 and Fry Scholarship claims to one RPO, 
        preferably Muskogee, and have staff specialized in just those 
        claims. This would help reduce overall processing errors but 
        also help ensure consistency in the Certificates of 
        Eligibility. (Certificate of Eligibility Challenges)

        2. Allow students to submit a single school certification form, 
        such as or similar to the VA 21-674, upon their 18th birthday, 
        along with a new direct deposit form that will generate a 
        process into the NWQ upon receipt. This will ensure students' 
        DIC payments continue through their high school graduation. 
        Additionally, if the VA Education Office awards benefits, the 
        Pension Management Center is required to be notified by the 
        Education Office to release additional funds for the summer 
        months between high school graduation and their first day of 
        utilizing the education benefits. (DIC for High School 
        Students)

        3. Elevate the Office of Survivor Assistance under the Office 
        of the Under Secretary for Benefits and provide them access to 
        more than just Compensation claims to include, but not limited 
        to, the National Cemetery Administration benefits, Education 
        benefits, VA home Loans, Office of Survivor Group Life 
        Insurance Policy (SGLI), VA Life Insurance claims, and 
        Healthcare claims so they can provide more impactful 
        information to survivors. (Entry Points into VA)

        4. Create an official entry point for survivors into the VA, 
        such as OSA, and provide adequate staffing to assist survivors 
        with questions about their benefits, care, and support. (Entry 
        Points into VA)

        5. Create an 800 number for survivors at the VA. The use of the 
        veterans' helpline as the entry point oftentimes leads to 
        survivors receiving misinformation since the helpline is not 
        accustomed to speaking with survivors. (Entry Points into VA)

        6. Passage of the Love Lives On Act, which will allow surviving 
        spouses to retain benefits upon remarriage at any age, would 
        alleviate many of the paperwork challenges our surviving 
        spouses currently face.

CONCLUSION

    TAPS thanks the leadership of the House Committee on Veterans' 
Affairs, their distinguished members, and professional staff for 
holding this important hearing on survivor issues. TAPS is honored to 
testify on behalf of the thousands of military and veteran surviving 
families we serve.

                   Prepared Statement of Kelly Hruska
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                       Statements for the Record

                               __________

                   Prepared Statement of Laura Lehigh

                         INTRODUCTORY STATEMENT

    My name is Laura Lehigh of Kalamazoo, Michigan. I am the widow of 
1LT Michael Schmidt, a Vietnam combat veteran whose death in 1971 was 
directly attributed to complications from combat wounds. As 
administrator of a vibrant Facebook social media group of more than 
2,000 Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC) spouse beneficiaries, 
I read comments and questions daily about survivor benefits 
administered through the Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA).
    I am one of the few remaining pre-1993 rank-based DIC recipients 
whose financial dependency on our late spouses was determined and 
grandfathered in statute in previous DIC reform efforts.
    In 1993 DIC was changed from a rank-based payment system to a flat 
rate system. The purpose behind the change was to improve benefits for 
the widows of lower-paid servicemembers. Payments were increased for 
survivors of ranks E1-E6 up to a new ``flat rate'' that then became the 
basis for all future DIC payments. Today, new DIC recipients are paid 
at the same flat rate. Some, depending on circumstances, are eligible 
to receive ``add-ons'' that increase their monthly compensation.
    Since the 1993 change, a small subset of rank-based DIC recipients 
remains. By latest count there are about 51,072 pre-1993 rank-based 
widows. Of that number, 34,452 are survivors of lower ranking 
servicemembers. For those widows, the DIC payment is the same as that 
of all new flat-rate beneficiaries. If there is an increase to the DIC 
flat rate, they will get the increase in full. The remaining 16,572 
widows, however, are the rank-based spouses who presently receive DIC 
at a rate higher than the current flat rate. These DIC spouses are 
often at risk of losing all, or a portion, of their earlier--
grandfathered rank-based dependency amounts whenever changes are made 
to increase DIC. Congress must ensure that this does not happen. A 
simple solution would be to recharacterize the grandfathered rank-based 
dependency amounts as add-ons.

IN MORE DETAIL: IT'S OFTEN A MATTER OF POLICY, BUT IT'S ALWAYS A MATTER 
                              OF PRINCIPLE

As a matter of policy, DVA must adhere to and maintain the original 
intent of its programs.

    In 1993, when Congress replaced the old rank-based system with a 
new, flat-rate system, DIC became an indemnification payment only.
    The intent of the original DIC program was explained in testimony 
presented to the House Veterans Affairs Subcommittee on Benefits on 
April 11, 2002. Daniel Cooper, then Under Secretary for Benefits at the 
Department of Veterans Affairs, described how rank-based payments 
originally factored in when DIC was created. Excerpt follows:

    ``... in a 1955 report, H.R. Rep. No. 84-993, that, ``these two 
separate and distinct survivor benefit programs . . . would become one. 
To this limited extent one of the objectives of the committee, greater 
simplicity, would be accomplished and the long-term interest and equity 
of survivors protected.'' This Act established a monthly DIC rate for 
widows consisting of a fixed rate plus a percentage of the basic pay 
prescribed for the deceased servicemember's pay grade and length of 
service. It is apparent from this Committee Report that the fixed rate 
represented the ``indemnity'' or reparation element of the compensation 
and the percentage of the deceased servicemember's basic pay 
represented the ``dependency'' or income-replacement element.''

As a matter of policy, the Department of Veterans Affairs must ensure 
that new legislation always supports the fair and equitable nature of 
existing benefits among surviving spouses.

    Often, when Congress enacts new laws, disparities in benefits 
result for military surviving spouses. Even more concerning is when 
newly written laws have the effect of reducing or removing a 
grandfathered benefit.
    In 1993 ``Old Law'' DIC recipients had their ``dependency'' 
portions grandfathered in statute. Today protected rank-based payments 
are a combination of both elements of the original program: the ``rank 
based dependency'' amount, and the new ``indemnification'' amount. The 
indemnification portion, which is equal to the current flat rate, is 
now inherent in the total of each grandfathered rank-based payment.
    Because the dependency portion was based on rank, pre-1993 still-
existing rank-based payments vary. Pre-1993 rank-based widows are the 
most elderly and often, the most financially vulnerable DIC recipients. 
Many of them rely on DIC as a primary source of income. Future 
Dependency and Indemnity policy changes must always respect the long-
term interest and equity of all survivors.

As a matter of policy, Congress should create laws that reflect parity 
with other Federal survivor programs.

    DIC is currently calculated at 43 percent of the 100 percent 
disabled veteran compensation. Other federal survivor programs provide 
up to 55 percent of the deceased employee's retired pay. When viewed 
through the lens of a survivor benefit payment, the well-being of a 
veteran's surviving spouse appears to be of less concern to 
policymakers than the well-being of a survivor of a federal retiree.

Keeping faith with veterans and survivors should always be paramount.

    When new bills are considered for implementation by the Department 
of Veterans Affairs, keeping faith with those whom DVA serves should 
always come first. If new legislation penalizes even a small number of 
beneficiaries, that legislation breaks faith. The 16,572 pre-1993 rank-
based spouses at E7 rank and higher represent only 3.5 percent of all 
DIC beneficiaries. If that group suffers a monetary disparity in the 
amount of DIC increase they receive, an injustice occurs. And while the 
effective ``loss'' in indemnification increase dollars will differ 
among those E7 and higher spouses due to the blending in of their 
varied dependency amounts, an even more insulting injustice will be 
inflicted upon 1,822 rank-based DIC recipients who will see no increase 
at all. All DIC spouses should receive the same dollar amount of 
increase.
                                 ______
                                 

            Prepared Statement of Disabled American Veterans

    Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member Pappas and Members of the 
Subcommittee:
    Thank you for inviting DAV (Disabled American Veterans) to submit 
testimony for the record of your hearing titled, ``The One Percent: 
Supporting America's Surviving Military Family Community.''
    DAV is a congressionally chartered and Department of Veterans 
Affairs (VA) accredited veterans service organization. To fulfill our 
service mission, DAV directly employs a corps of benefits advisors, 
national service officers (NSOs), all of whom are themselves wartime 
service-connected disabled veterans, at every VA regional office (VARO) 
as well as other VA facilities throughout the Nation, including the 
Board of Veterans' Appeals (Board).
    DAV provides meaningful claims support free of charge to more than 
1 million veterans, family members, caregivers and survivors. During 
calendar year 2023, DAV assisted survivors with Dependency and 
Indemnity Compensation (DIC) claims totaling over $214 million in 
benefits.
    Mr. Chairman, for far too long survivors' benefits have taken a 
backseat to other benefit programs in the VA arena. It is time that 
more attention be given to survivors, who have sacrificed so much in 
support of their veterans. We appreciate the survivor benefits and 
programs administered by the VA, but are they doing enough?
    Based on our 100 years of experience, we are pleased to provide our 
insight, comments, and recommendations about current DIC rates, the 
claims process, Civilian Health and Medical Program of the Department 
of Veterans Affairs (CHAMPVA), as well as the removal of the remarriage 
age for survivors.

                 Dependency and Indemnity Compensation

    Created in 1993, DIC is a benefit paid to surviving spouses of 
service members who die in the line of duty or veterans whose death is 
due to a service-related injury or disease. DIC provides surviving 
families with the means to maintain some economic stability after the 
loss of their loved ones.
    The rate of DIC payments has only been minimally adjusted since 
1993. In contrast, monthly benefits for survivors of federal civil 
service retirees are calculated as a percentage of the civil service 
retiree's Federal Employees Retirement or Civil Service Retirement 
System benefits, up to 55 percent. Currently, VA DIC payments are 
approximately 41 percent of compensation for a 100 percent service-
disabled veteran with a spouse. This difference presents an inequity 
for survivors of our nation's heroes compared to survivors of federal 
employees.
    For example, a married veteran who is receiving 100 percent 
disability compensation through the VA is being paid approximately 
$3,946 a month, whereas DIC payments for survivors are set at $1,612.75 
a month. As a result, surviving spouses have to not only deal with the 
heartache of losing their loved one, but also contend with the loss of 
approximately $28,000 a year. This particularly affects survivors who 
depend on that compensation as a primary source of income. As such, we 
strongly urge Congress to correct this injustice for survivors and 
their families.
    In addition to the DIC rates, our members and survivors are 
concerned over the restrictions imposed by the 10-year rule. There are 
two ways for a survivor to receive the full DIC amount: the veteran's 
death is due to a service-connected disability or the veteran has been 
evaluated at 100 percent for ten years or longer. H.R. 1083, the Caring 
for Survivors Act, proposes to replace the 10-year rule by expanding 
eligibility for DIC with a graduated scale of benefits that begins at 
five years for initial eligibility at 50 percent and gradually reaches 
the full benefit at 10 years after determination of disability. DAV 
strongly supports this legislation which would ease the eligibility 
criteria for DIC and increase the monthly benefit amount to match 
benefits provided by other federal survivor programs.

                           Claims Processing

    When a veteran dies the surviving spouse and family are responsible 
for the regular monthly household expenses, such as mortgage/rent, 
utilities and car payments. Not only are these families dealing with 
the loss of the veteran, but many also experience financial hardship 
due to the loss of the veteran's compensation, and having to wait more 
than four months for DIC benefits.
    Based on the most recent information from VA, 39.2 percent of 
claims for compensation have been pending over 125 days as compared to 
47.5 percent for DIC claims pending over 125 days. In other words, 
nearly half of the DIC claims have been waiting longer than the 
national average.
    Currently, all DIC claims are handled by the three Pension 
Management Centers (PMCs) located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; 
Milwaukee, Wisconsin; and St. Paul, Minnesota. As of September 2022, 
VBA employed 681 pension employees of that number 493 employees are 
Veterans Service Representatives (VSRs) and Rating Veterans Service 
Representatives (RVSRs) responsible for developing, adjudicating and 
promulgating pension, DIC and burial claims. Even with these dedicated 
resources at the PMCs, it's simply taking too long for a decision.
    For 26 years, I have been a VA-accredited DAV benefits advocate 
providing veterans and their families with claims and appeals 
representation. During that time, I have seen a great number of DIC 
claims and appeals come across my desk. A majority of these cases were 
fairly simple to decide based on the facts of the claim--and I know how 
important it is for survivors to receive a timely decision during this 
difficult and stressful time.
    Families in need of DIC should not have to wait to receive their 
benefits and they shouldn't have to wait for their CHAMPVA benefits. 
Consideration should be given to having initial DIC claims adjudicated 
at the local office of original jurisdiction or through VBA's National 
Work Queue to reduce the timeframe needed to process these claims.

                                CHAMPVA

    CHAMPVA is a comprehensive health care program in which the VA 
shares the cost of covered health care services and supplies with 
eligible beneficiaries. This important program provides health care to 
children and spouses of certain veterans, specifically those who died 
from a VA-rated service-connected disability or who were rated 
permanently and totally disabled from a service-connected disability at 
the time of death, or those who died in the line of duty.
    DAV members and survivors have two major concerns with CHAMPVA 
benefits. First, eligibility for CHAMPVA for a dependent child ends at 
the age of 18, unless that dependent is enrolled in an accredited 
school as a full-time student until the age of 23 or marries or is a 
stepchild who no longer lives in the household of the CHAMPVA sponsor. 
It should be noted that current law requires private health plans and 
insurers to offer coverage to adult children of beneficiaries to age 26 
regardless of the child's financial dependency, marital status, 
enrollment in school, residency or other factors.
    To correct this inequity DAV fully supports H.R. 2414, the CHAMPVA 
Children's Care Protection Act--legislation that would provide 
survivors of service-disabled veterans parity in the CHAMPVA program by 
allowing eligible dependent children to maintain their health care 
benefits until age 26.
    The second concern we have is about the high number of CHAMPVA 
providers being placed on ``payment hold'' status due to not enrolling 
in electronic funds transfer or EFT. VA must take further action to 
ensure these providers are aware of the requirement to enroll in EFT, 
so that CHAMPVA beneficiaries do not experience disruptions in care.
    No surviving spouse should have to worry about health care for 
themselves or their dependent children, nor should they have to worry 
about their physician being put on a payment hold because of a lack 
information between the physician's office and the VA. Last, let's 
discuss the issue of eliminating the remarriage age for surviving 
spouses.

                     Eliminating the Remarriage Age

    Mr. Chairman, the payment of DIC benefits was intended to provide 
surviving spouses with economic stability for themselves and their 
families following the death of their veteran. Surviving spouses were 
no longer eligible for DIC benefits if they remarried prior to the age 
of 57. Then in 2021, the remarriage age was lowered to 55.
    In VA's most recent annual report, it is noted that only 7 percent 
of surviving spouses that are receiving DIC benefits are under the age 
of 56. There are 3,691 surviving spouses that are 35 years old or 
younger and 26,213 surviving spouses between the ages of 36 to 56.
    Surviving spouses that are currently in receipt of DIC benefits 
should not have to worry about losing their benefits if they remarry 
before the age of 55. We need to ensure that survivors and dependents 
of service-disabled veterans are properly cared for and have the 
resources they need.
    Removing the remarriage age for surviving spouses has been a long-
standing priority for DAV and we strongly supports H.R. 3651, the Love 
Lives On Act. This legislation would eliminate the remarriage age for 
survivors in receipt of DIC.
    Mr. Chairman, DAV believes that survivors have been put on the back 
burner long enough and they need action now. As we have noted 
throughout this testimony the concerns about DIC rates, the DIC claims 
process, CHAMPVA, and the removal of the remarriage age they need 
immediate attention. This concludes my testimony and we thank you for 
the opportunity to provide our comments.
                                 ______
                                 

            Prepared Statement of Fleet Reserve Association
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

          Prepared Statement of Paralyzed Veterans of America

    Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member Pappas, and members of the 
Subcommittee, Paralyzed Veterans of America (PVA), would like to thank 
you for the opportunity to submit our views on improving support for 
the survivors of our nations' veterans. PVA members and their families 
understand the full scope of benefits and care provided by the 
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) better than most veterans due to 
their spinal cord injuries or disorders (SCI/D). The complexities that 
PVA members experience range from treatment within the SCI/D system of 
care to the need for relevant and up-to-date benefits such as special 
monthly compensation and caregiver support. Upon the death of their 
veteran, survivors often face insurmountable challenges that make 
accessing relevant VA benefits more difficult.
    VA offers many benefits for surviving family members of deceased 
veterans, such as financial, educational, and emotional support. One 
critical benefit for service-connected veterans is Dependency and 
Indemnity Compensation (DIC), a monthly, tax-free cash payment for 
eligible surviving spouses, children, and dependent parents. Other 
benefits include survivors' pension, burial assistance, education 
assistance, and health insurance through the Civilian Health and 
Medical Program of the Department of Veterans Affairs (CHAMPVA). 
Eligibility requirements are unique to the benefits offered, but 
accessing those benefits can often be challenging.
    The time immediately following the death of a servicemember or 
veteran is when most survivors must make significant life decisions, 
including burial arrangements and consideration of financial and living 
situations. This is when survivors often need the greatest level of 
support and ensuring assistance is available from informed 
professionals is critical. Having help can alleviate some of the stress 
and uncertainty survivors encounter while also navigating profound 
grief.
    For many of our oldest PVA members, their spouses have served as 
their primary caregivers for 40 years or more. When a service-connected 
SCI/D veteran passes away, monthly compensation, which could have been 
upwards of $10,000 a month stops, and suddenly the surviving spouse is 
then reliant on the DIC benefit, currently about $1600 per month, as 
their sole income. If the veteran was rated totally disabled for a 
continuous period of at least eight years preceding death, their 
eligible surviving spouses can receive an additional amount known as 
the DIC ``kicker.'' Although the kicker, currently about $350 per 
month, is vital and offers some help toward paying the bills and 
maintaining the household, the overall support provided through DIC is 
limited. The precipitous drop of revenue into the home following the 
veterans' passing can be daunting. Also, because caregivers give so 
much of themselves when supporting and caring for their veterans, many 
are unable to work outside of their caregiving role, and therefore, 
lack Social Security retirement credits. As a result, some surviving 
spouses may be forced to sell their homes and rely on friends or family 
members for support.

Improving Access to Benefits for Survivors

    After being a caregiver to a veteran, possibly for decades, the 
loss of love, companionship, and purpose is profound. Not only are many 
survivors of PVA members navigating the application process for 
benefits, but they may also need to return medical supplies such as 
hospital beds or Hoyer lifts to the VA and other providers. There may 
also be ventilators or other necessary medical equipment that must be 
removed from the home. How is a survivor expected to grapple with the 
loss of financial support, return medical equipment, and fill out 
mounds of VA paperwork to access benefits while grieving? Grief is 
inevitable after loss, but many survivors must put their suffering on 
pause.
    Suppose a PVA member passes away, and our National Service Officers 
(NSO) have a Power of Attorney (POA) for the deceased veteran. In that 
case, the NSO may be able to assist the surviving spouse with the DIC 
application. However, if the survivor notifies the VA upon the death of 
their veteran or if the veteran passes away at a VA medical center, our 
NSOs no longer have access to those records in the Veterans Benefits 
Management System (VBMS). The survivor then must file a separate POA to 
be represented by our NSOs again. This unnecessary process causes 
preventable delays and needs to be corrected.
    Filing for DIC and burial benefits while grieving a loved one can 
be a daunting task. The application for DIC alone is 20 pages long; 11 
pages of instructions with 9 pages to fill out, and an application for 
burial benefits, is another 10 pages. Much of the information on either 
application is already known by the VA, yet survivors are expected to 
provide this information promptly to access critical benefits. As the 
VA expands its integration of automated systems, Congress should 
prioritize streamlining and improving the DIC and burial application 
process to reduce stress on survivors.

Increasing the Amount of DIC

    The rate of compensation paid to survivors of servicemembers who 
die in the line of duty or veterans who die from service-related 
injuries or diseases was created in 1993 and has seen little increase 
since then. However, monthly benefits for survivors of federal civil 
service retirees are calculated as a percentage of the civil service 
retiree's Federal Employees Retirement System or Civil Service 
Retirement System benefits, up to 55 percent. This difference presents 
an inequity for survivors of our Nation's heroes compared to survivors 
of federal employees.
    DIC payments were intended to provide surviving spouses with the 
means to maintain some semblance of economic stability after the loss 
of their loved ones. Survivors who rely exclusively on DIC benefits 
face significant financial hardships at the time of their spouse's 
death. PVA strongly believes DIC should be indexed to 55 percent of a 
100 percent disabled veteran's compensation. This increase would 
provide parity between Federal Employee benefits and veteran survivors. 
This is why Congress should not delay in passing H.R. 1083, the Caring 
for Our Survivors Act of 2023, which would increase the rate of DIC and 
reduce the number of years a veteran must be rated totally and 
permanently disabled for the survivor to qualify for benefits.

Additional Financial Benefits for Surviving Spouses of ALS Veterans

    Another complication for spouses is when a veteran's life-limiting 
diagnosis means there is practically no way for them to access 
additional DIC benefits once their veteran passes. This is the 
situation of spouses of veterans diagnosed with Amyotrophic Lateral 
Sclerosis (ALS). ALS is an aggressive disease that quickly leaves 
veterans incapacitated and reliant on family members and caregivers. 
The VA recognizes ALS as a presumptive service-connected disease, and 
due to its progressive nature, automatically rates any diagnosed 
veteran at 100 percent once service-connected. As stated before, many 
spouses stop working to provide care for their loved one, who, once 
diagnosed with ALS, only has an average lifespan of between three to 
five years.
    Because so few veterans survive beyond five years, the surviving 
spouses of veterans with ALS rarely qualify for the DIC ``kicker.'' 
Jann Vasiloff, the surviving spouse of PVA member George Vasiloff, was 
disqualified for this exact reason. Determined not to let this happen 
to other spouses, Ms. Vasiloff helped PVA craft H.R. 3790, the Justice 
for ALS Veterans Act, to make the surviving spouses of future veterans 
with ALS eligible for the DIC kicker, regardless of how long the 
veteran had the disease. Congress should not delay the passage of this 
critical legislation that would provide additional resources to the 
surviving spouse of a veteran who passes away from ALS.

Parity for Dependent Children in Health Care Coverage

    The surviving spouse and eligible children of veterans with 
service-connected disabilities may qualify for CHAMPVA. Even though an 
NSO may have a POA to assist surviving family members in filing for 
this benefit, representatives are not copied on any correspondence from 
the VA regarding their application. Absent any personal follow up, NSOs 
are in the dark on the status of their request. It would be beneficial 
if NSOs were notified about the status of these claims.
    There are also parity issues for the children of service-disabled 
veterans who rely on CHAMPVA. Coverage for children under CHAMPVA 
currently expires when they turn 18 unless they are full-time students; 
in this case, they continue to receive care until they turn 23 or stop 
attending school full-time. In 2010, all commercial health insurance 
coverage increased the age for covered dependents to 26 years by the 
provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA) 
(Public Law 111-148). At this time, the only qualified dependents that 
are not covered under a parent's health insurance policy up to age 26 
are those of 100 percent service-connected disabled veterans covered 
under CHAMPVA. Congress should pass H.R. 2414, the CHAMPVA Children's 
Care Protection Act, to achieve parity with the ACA.

Employment Needs for Survivors

    PVA's Veterans Career Program maintains an active client list of 
more than 500 transitioning servicemembers, veterans, spouses and other 
family members, and caregivers. In recent years, we have seen an 
increase in the number of surviving spouses, many of whom also served 
as caregivers, seeking our assistance.
    PVA has identified two reasons for increasing survivor engagement 
with our career program. First, many survivors are concerned about the 
economy, such as increased housing costs, food prices, and medical 
care, and there are fears around meeting their financial needs. Second, 
due to the death of a veteran spouse, the reduction in benefits for the 
household is pushing them into the labor market. In many cases, the 
survivor has been out of the workforce for years, if not decades, and 
lacks relevant employment skills. They engage with our career program 
to gain education or employment opportunities. Many of these survivors 
have spent years caring for their veteran and may not have other 
sources of income, such as retirement accounts.
    One possible solution to help veterans' survivors transition back 
into the workforce could be tax credits for employers that prioritize 
hiring survivors, particularly those who have served as caregivers. 
Congress could expand the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC), which 
offers federal tax credits to employers who invest in workers who have 
consistently faced barriers to employment. Expanding existing employer 
incentive programs to include surviving spouses may be one way to help 
survivors transition back into the workforce.
    The issues faced by survivors, particularly those who also served 
as caregivers, are complex and we must ensure that their service and 
sacrifice is recognized and celebrated. To ignore the challenges, they 
face does a disservice to their commitment to our nation's most 
vulnerable veterans. Many of these challenges can be addressed with 
simple common-sense solutions that would improve the processes, 
supports, and benefits for survivors.
    PVA would once again like to thank the Subcommittee for the 
opportunity to submit our views on VA's survivor programs and benefits. 
We look forward to working with the Subcommittee on this important 
issue.

  Information Required by Rule XI 2(g) of the House of Representatives

    Pursuant to Rule XI 2(g) of the House of Representatives, the 
following information is provided regarding federal grants and 
contracts.

                            Fiscal Year 2023

    Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of National Veterans Sports 
Programs & Special Events--Grant to support rehabilitation sports 
activities--$479,000.

                            Fiscal Year 2022

    Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of National Veterans Sports 
Programs & Special Events--Grant to support rehabilitation sports 
activities--$ 437,745.

                     Disclosure of Foreign Payments

    Paralyzed Veterans of America is largely supported by donations 
from the general public. However, in some very rare cases we receive 
direct donations from foreign nationals. In addition, we receive 
funding from corporations and foundations which in some cases are U.S. 
subsidiaries of non-U.S. companies.

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