[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                       BIDEN'S BORDER CRISIS: THE
                       CONSEQUENCES OF FAILING TO
                      SECURE FEDERAL BORDER LANDS

=======================================================================

                        OVERSIGHT FIELD HEARING

                               before the

                     SUBCOMMITTEE ON FEDERAL LANDS

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION
                               __________

          Thursday, February 8, 2024, in Sierra Vista, Arizona
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-95
                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources
       
       
       
       
       
       
               [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]






        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                   or
          Committee address: http://naturalresources.house.gov                  
                                 ______

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 

54-783 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2024





























                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES

                     BRUCE WESTERMAN, AR, Chairman
                    DOUG LAMBORN, CO, Vice Chairman
                  RAUL M. GRIJALVA, AZ, Ranking Member

Doug Lamborn, CO                     Grace F. Napolitano, CA           
Robert J. Wittman, VA                Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan,                
Tom McClintock, CA                     CNMI                     
Paul Gosar, AZ                       Jared Huffman, CA                       
Garret Graves, LA                    Ruben Gallego, AZ        
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS         Joe Neguse, CO                  
Doug LaMalfa, CA                     Mike Levin, CA                
Daniel Webster, FL                   Katie Porter, CA                
Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon, PR         Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM                                
Russ Fulcher, ID                     Melanie A. Stansbury, NM                 
Pete Stauber, MN                     Mary Sattler Peltola, AK              
John R. Curtis, UT                   Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, NY                               
Tom Tiffany, WI                      Kevin Mullin, CA  
Jerry Carl, AL                       Val T. Hoyle, OR       
Matt Rosendale, MT                   Sydney Kamlager-Dove, CA          
Lauren Boebert, CO                   Seth Magaziner, RI     
Cliff Bentz, OR                      Nydia M. Velazquez, NY         
Jen Kiggans, VA                      Ed Case, HI           
Jim Moylan, GU                       Debbie Dingell, MI        
Wesley P. Hunt, TX                   Susie Lee, NV    
Mike Collins, GA                              
Anna Paulina Luna, FL                         
John Duarte, CA                                        
Harriet M. Hageman, WY                                                                        

                    Vivian Moeglein, Staff Director
                      Tom Connally, Chief Counsel
                 Lora Snyder, Democratic Staff Director
                   http://naturalresources.house.gov
                   
                                 ------                                

                     SUBCOMMITTEE ON FEDERAL LANDS

                       TOM TIFFANY, WI, Chairman
                     JOHN R. CURTIS, UT, Vice Chair
                     JOE NEGUSE, CO, Ranking Member

Doug Lamborn, CO                     Katie Porter, CA
Tom McClintock, CA                   Sydney Kamlager-Dove, CA
Russ Fulcher, ID                     Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, 
Pete Stauber, MN                       CNMI
John R. Curtis, UT                   Mike Levin, CA
Cliff Bentz, OR                      Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM
Jen Kiggans, VA                      Mary Sattler Peltola, AK
Jim Moylan, GU                       Raul M. Grijalva, AZ, ex officio
Bruce Westerman, AR, ex officio

                                 ------
                                 























                                 
                               CONTENTS

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on Thursday, February 8, 2024.......................     1

Statement of Members:

    Tiffany, Hon. Tom, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Wisconsin.........................................     2
    Westerman, Hon. Bruce, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Arkansas..........................................     4
    Ciscomani, Hon. Juan, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Arizona...........................................     6

Statement of Witnesses:

    McCaa, Hon. Clea, Mayor, Sierra Vista, Arizona...............     8
        Prepared statement of....................................    10

    Dannels, Hon. Mark, Sheriff, Cochise County, Arizona.........    11
        Prepared statement of....................................    12

    Del Cueto, Art, Vice President, National Border Patrol 
      Council, Tucson, Arizona...................................    19
        Prepared statement of....................................    21

    Boelts, John, Vice President, Arizona Farm Bureau, Yuma, 
      Arizona....................................................    22
        Prepared statement of....................................    24

    Chilton, James, Rancher, Arivaca, Arizona....................    25
        Prepared statement of....................................    26

Additional Materials Submitted for the Record:

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Tiffany

        Chilton Ranch LLC, Letter to the Committee...............    59

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Stauber

        Letter to Secretary Mayorkas, Department of Homeland 
          Security...............................................    38
                                     

 
                  OVERSIGHT FIELD HEARING ON BIDEN'S
                    BORDER CRISIS: THE CONSEQUENCES
                      OF FAILING TO SECURE FEDERAL
                              BORDER LANDS

                               ----------                              

                       Thursday, February 8, 2024

                     U.S. House of Representatives

                     Subcommittee on Federal Lands

                     Committee on Natural Resources

                         Sierra Vista, Arizona

                               ----------                              

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 1:30 p.m., at 
Cochise College, Community Room, 901 Colombo Avenue, Sierra 
Vista, Arizona, Hon. Tom Tiffany [Chairman of the Subcommittee] 
presiding.
    Present: Representatives Westerman, Curtis, Stauber, 
Tiffany, and Moylan.
    Also present: Representatives Newhouse, Ciscomani, LaMalfa, 
Hageman, Collins, Carter, Fischbach, and Hern.

    Mr. Tiffany. The Subcommittee on Federal Lands will come to 
order. I am assuming the mic is on here. It sounds like it is 
good.
    I would like to welcome everybody to Cochise College here 
in Sierra Vista, Arizona. And let's see here. Yes, thank you to 
Dr. Rottweiler? Where are you? You are right here, yes, 
terrific. First of all, thank you very much for the challenge 
coin. We appreciate that very much. And thank you so much for 
hosting this in your beautiful college here in Sierra Vista. We 
really appreciate it.
    We are here for an official Natural Resources Subcommittee 
on Federal Lands Oversight Hearing entitled ``Biden's Border 
Crisis: The Consequences of Failing to Secure Federal Border 
Lands.'' My name is Tom Tiffany. I am the Chairman of the 
Subcommittee and represent the 7th District of Wisconsin, right 
underneath Lake Superior.
    This Subcommittee is meeting today to discuss the Biden 
administration's ongoing failure to secure our nation's 
southern border. It has become a true national security, 
environmental, and humanitarian crisis.
    Before we begin, I would like to remind everybody about the 
rules of decorum for official congressional proceedings. I ask 
that there not be any kind of disruption regarding the 
testimony given here today. It is important that we respect the 
decorum and the rules of the Committee and of the House of 
Representatives, and to allow the Members and the public to 
hear our proceedings.
    Now, we will begin our hearing with a presentation of the 
colors by the Tombstone High School Junior ROTC. I will ask 
that everyone please rise for the presentation of the colors.
    [Presentation of the colors.]
    Mr. Tiffany. We will now be led in the Pledge of Allegiance 
by Representative Ciscomani.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Please join me.
    [Group recitation of Pledge of Allegiance.]
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Congressman Ciscomani.
    Now, for a few additional housekeeping items, without 
objection the Chair is authorized to declare a recess of the 
Subcommittee at any time. I ask unanimous consent that the 
following Members be allowed to participate in today's hearing 
from the dais: the gentleman from Washington and the Chairman 
of the Congressional Western Caucus, Mr. Newhouse; the 
gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Ciscomani; the gentleman from 
California, Mr. LaMalfa; the gentlewoman from Wyoming, Ms. 
Hageman; the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Collins; the gentleman 
from Georgia, Mr. Carter; the gentlewoman form Minnesota, Ms. 
Fischbach; and the gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Hern.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    Under Committee Rule 4(f), any oral opening statements at 
hearings are limited to the Chairman and the Ranking Minority 
Member. I, therefore, ask unanimous consent that all other 
Members' opening statements be made part of the hearing record 
if they are submitted in accordance with Committee Rule 3(o).
    Without objection, so ordered.

    STATEMENT OF THE HON. TOM TIFFANY, A REPRESENTATIVE
          IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF WISCONSIN

    Mr. Tiffany. I will now recognize myself for an opening 
statement.
    I want to begin by thanking the people here in Sierra Vista 
for hosting us here today. It is our pleasure to be in this 
beautiful community. And my only disappointment, coming from 
northern Wisconsin, when we go to Arizona we expect 70 degrees.
    I would also like to thank Representative Ciscomani and the 
Congressional Western Caucus, led by Chairman Dan Newhouse, for 
helping make this the most widely attended field hearing held 
by the Natural Resources Committee this Congress. We are here 
to discuss a vital subject, one that has doubtlessly affected 
everyone in this city and in similar communities throughout 
Arizona and the entire Southwest.
    Under President Biden, the situation at the southern border 
has spiraled completely out of control. During his term, United 
States Customs and Border Protection has recorded more than 6 
million encounters with illegal immigrants crossing into the 
United States from Mexico. Added to that are the more than 1.7 
million migrants who successfully evaded border officials 
during the same period.
    Since significant numbers of convicted criminals, known 
gang members, and suspected terrorists have crossed the 
southern border in recent years, the Biden administration's 
failure to apprehend, or even adequately screen the millions of 
people pouring into our country is an appalling security 
failure. Further, under President Biden's watch, a full 90 to 
95 percent of the illegal narcotics carried by smugglers across 
the southern border makes it through without being seized. In 
fact, more than 90 percent of the fentanyl currently 
circulating in the United States enters the country this way.
    And I would just say, we took a little side trip here 
today, and it is not hard to understand why all that fentanyl 
is pouring into our country when the border checkpoints are not 
manned because they are off having to do other things.
    This helps explain why fentanyl overdose kills roughly 
70,000 Americans annually, and is now the leading cause of 
death for Americans aged 18 to 45. Here in Arizona, the Customs 
and Border Protection's Tucson Sector has become the busiest in 
the nation for illegal drug smuggling.
    You may be asking, why is the Natural Resources Committee 
interested in this issue? Every person in this room knows the 
effects of illegal immigration on our communities, but few know 
about the damage and destruction illegal immigration has on our 
public lands. We are here today to bring attention to this 
issue. Roughly 40 percent of the southern border is made up of 
Federal lands, and in Arizona, 80 percent of border lands are 
owned by the Federal Government.
    As the immigration surge has overwhelmed official ports of 
entry, migrants have been pouring into Arizona's public lands, 
which are more remote and less easily patrolled. Each of these 
illegal migrants leaves behind an estimated 6 to 8 pounds of 
trash. Last year, more than 28,000 pounds of trash were picked 
up by the Federal officials in Arizona along the southern 
border. This is barely scratching the surface. With more than 
2.4 million illegal crossings last year, it is likely that 
illegal immigrants left a minimum of 14.4 million pounds of 
trash. Let me say that again: illegal immigration is causing 
millions of pounds of trash to pile up on our Federal lands.
    In many cases, this environmental degradation is happening 
in our most sensitive landscapes: wildlife refuges, national 
monuments, and wilderness areas. Many of you have probably been 
to the Coronado National Memorial, which is a mere 30-minute 
drive from here. A National Park Service employee at the 
Coronado reported that the trash piles there have grown so 
large that they have become resting spots for illegal 
immigrants, who then need to be airlifted out of this 
ecologically sensitive area, at enormous expense to the 
taxpayer.
    You cannot call yourself a true conservationist unless you 
are willing to take a hard look at the environmental toll 
illegal immigration is having on our public lands. 
Unfortunately, with all the effects that illegal immigration is 
having on our society, the consequences for our Federal lands 
are often the last issues to receive attention. We are here 
today to get the message out about the importance of conserving 
our Federal lands and securing our border.
    Today, I took the time this morning to go through the 
Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge to the Coronado National 
Forest, and the photos I am about to show you are from today. I 
want to thank Sean Wilson and his crew for escorting me out 
there to see what is going on.
    First of all, you will see a pile of firewood. This is 
firewood that has been harvested in the Coronado National 
Forest.
    Go to the second slide, if you would, the fire.
    And here we have the firewood being burned. There is no 
permit that is being taken out on this. You, as Americans, 
would have to get a permit. You would have to get the right to 
be able to do that. This is just happening in our national 
forest not far from here.
    Slide 3, you will see the trash and food piles all stacked 
up in the national forest.
    And finally, we found lots of these. Catholic Charities, 
American Red Cross who are helping facilitate this. And I 
understand that their mission, they say, is humanitarian. There 
is nothing humanitarian about what is happening to so many 
migrants that are coming across our southern border, how they 
are being abused by the cartels. There is nothing humanitarian 
about it. Catholic Charities and other NGOs need to reconsider 
what they are doing with their facilitation of the greatest 
human trafficking effort perhaps in the history of the world 
since slavery.
    As some of you may know, when on Federal lands, there are 
strict rules on where campsites and campfires are allowed, and 
permits can be required. But it appears these rules and 
regulations are reserved for the citizens of this country. All 
those pouring over illegally face zero repercussions for their 
blatant disregard for our public lands and the environment, as 
shown from our visit today. So, not only do they get free 
flights around our country, free health care, and access to our 
schools, but they also get to trash and leave human waste on 
our public lands as their welcoming gift.
    I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today, and 
I look forward to the insights that each of you will bring to 
this important discussion.
    With that, I will now recognize the Chairman of the Full 
Committee, Mr. Westerman, for his opening statement.

        STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRUCE WESTERMAN, A REP-
         RESENTATIVE IN  CONGRESS  FROM  THE STATE OF
         ARKANSAS

    Mr. Westerman. Thank you, Chairman Tiffany, and thank you 
for your work and the work of the Subcommittee staff in 
organizing this Federal Lands field hearing today. These are 
hearings that we try to do across the country, in many 
different places, to address the concerns of the Natural 
Resources Committee, and as Chairman Tiffany noted, we have a 
major concern with our Federal lands on our southern border.
    Again, I also want to recognize and extend my thanks to 
Representative Ciscomani, we are here in his district today, 
for his leadership on these issues and many more issues in the 
House. And as Chairman Tiffany said, we have several members of 
the Western Caucus that are with us, including Chairman Dan 
Newhouse. Dan, thank you for organizing the site visits and for 
all your work in highlighting issues that are important to the 
West and to rural America.
    We just returned from a trip to the border to see 
firsthand, once again, the challenges our law enforcement 
personnel face securing our border under this Administration. I 
first came to the Arizona border in, I believe it was 2018. I 
see some familiar faces here, Art. And I came out here looking 
at the same thing Representative Tiffany was talking about, the 
trash on our Federal lands, how there is a double standard in 
our country for an American to use our Federal lands versus an 
illegal coming across the border and trashing our Federal 
lands, as you saw in this picture. I thought we had a bad 
border process at the time. It was nothing, in 2018, like we 
are facing now.
    Each trip I have made out here, and on the Texas border and 
other places along the border, shows me that the situation is 
getting worse. It is not getting better. It is unfortunate 
because the witnesses before us today are faced with the 
consequences of weak border policies that cripple the ability 
of our Federal, state, and local law enforcement to fully 
protect our people, our lands, and our freedom.
    People often don't realize just how much of our southern 
border is comprised of Federal lands. Under the jurisdiction of 
this Committee, in Arizona, 80 percent of the border is Federal 
land, and I have personally met with CBP officials who have 
told me just how difficult it is to patrol the border on the 
Federal lands. I had opportunity to fly the border, the whole 
Arizona border. It is some rough country out there, some open 
country out there. And I live in Arkansas. I don't think the 
people in my state or other parts of the country realize just 
how vast and open and difficult this border is.
    These agents, who are just trying to do their jobs, lack 
accessible roads and physical barriers that are proven to deter 
illegal immigration. In some areas, restrictive designations 
such as wilderness mean they must stop active pursuit of 
dangerous criminals because they cannot use their ATVs.
    When we fail to secure our Federal lands, we fail to secure 
our border, and the process we have now at the border is 
unprecedented. Last year, roughly 2.5 million people crossed 
into this country illegally. That is a 43 percent increase from 
2 years prior. This just isn't common sense. Our CBP agents 
should have the access they need to do their jobs and have 
operational control of the border. When we fail to do so, it 
leads to a series of national security, environmental, and 
humanitarian crises.
    Due to the remoteness, Federal lands are often targeted by 
bad actors. Drug and human traffickers seek out remote areas to 
access the country. Illegal immigrants cut trails through 
sensitive wildlife habitat, they start wildfires, and leave 
behind an estimated 6 to 8 pounds of trash, as Representative 
Tiffany talked about. That is per person.
    Illegal immigration also deters members of the public from 
visiting these areas. This is unacceptable. Every American 
should feel safe and comfortable recreating on and visiting our 
public lands. Unfortunately, every town is now a border town, 
and every state is a border state. This is true of our Federal 
lands as well, where the impacts of illegal immigration can be 
felt from miles away, I will say thousands of miles away.
    In California, dangerous cartels grow illegal marijuana on 
Federal forest lands. The proceeds from illegal cultivation are 
funding cartels, human trafficking, and a host of other illegal 
issues. The Biden administration is housing illegal migrants on 
National Park Service land in Brooklyn, New York. Right here in 
Arizona, illegal immigrants discard millions of pounds of 
trash, cut trails through sensitive wildlife habitat, and start 
wildfires.
    Today, we will hear stories and firsthand accounts from our 
panel of witnesses describing the harm a porous border causes 
on families, ranchers, farmers, local communities, law 
enforcement, and, at the end of the day, on all of our citizens 
of our country. These stories resonate with each of us.
    I want to thank each of the witnesses for being here today. 
I want to thank the college for providing this excellent 
hearing space.
    And we had an opportunity to meet with Sheriff Dannels this 
morning. He said something, I think he put it more succinctly 
than I have heard it said from anybody else. He said, ``This 
isn't just an immigration crisis anymore. It is an organized 
crime crisis.'' That is what is happening in the United States 
of America, and you know firsthand here in Arizona how that 
affects so many people.
    Our Constitution says that Congress makes the laws, the 
Administration enforces the laws, and the judicial system 
interprets the laws. Congress has made laws that give the 
Administration the power to do eight things that could be done 
right now: we can end catch-and-release; we can re-instate the 
Remain in Mexico policy; we can enter into asylum cooperative 
agreements; we can end parole abuses; we can detain 
inadmissible aliens; we can use expedited removal; we can rein 
in taxpayer-funded benefits for illegal aliens; and we can 
issue a proclamation to suspend, to restrict entry. Those 
authorities are already there. There is one person, one person 
in the United States of America that can do that. That is the 
President of the United States, and I call on him today to do 
his job and to protect our country.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your testimony. I 
now turn to Congressman Ciscomani, who represents this 
district, for his opening statement. Welcome.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. JUAN CISCOMANI, A REPRESENTA-
          TIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Chairman Tiffany, Chairman 
Westerman, and all of my colleagues for being here in Sierra 
Vista to examine what is happening firsthand. I thank you for 
showing up. I think showing up is a great example of the 
interest and the true care that we have for this issue and our 
resolve to do what we can on the Congress side, and continue to 
do that, to fix this issue.
    I would also like to thank Cochise College, of course, for 
hosting us all here today, and I especially also want to thank 
the witnesses. I know every single one of you personally, and I 
know how busy you are, and I know how much you have been 
dealing and struggling with this issue for as long as you have. 
So, I want to say thank you so much for all of the work you 
have done but also being here, to lend your expertise and show 
my colleagues why I am so proud to represent all of you in the 
U.S. Congress.
    And I also want to thank everybody in the audience today. 
Thank you for showing up. Thank you for being here. Thank you 
for caring. Thank you for doing all that you can as well, as 
this is something that has been impacting everyone in different 
ways. So, I want to thank everyone for that.
    As anyone in southeastern Arizona knows well, the border 
crisis and crises are not a new phenomenon for us. They are a 
result of a combination of the broken immigration system, a 
lack of desire by the Federal Government to enforce the laws, 
and just a plethora of other issues as well, and other factors. 
Yet, what we see here in Sierra Vista and in the Tucson Sector 
is quite unique compared to a lot of the southwest border. It 
is bad actors, cartels and organized crime, pushing fentanyl, 
migrants, and whatever else they want, as they have more 
control over the area than anyone else. And we have seen that.
    The other thing that makes the Arizona border unique is 
that 80 percent of the southern borderland is on Federal lands. 
This creates extra burdens on our local and Federal law 
enforcement as well. CBP officials have publicly stated these 
vast areas of Federal land ``provide transnational criminal 
organizations significant opportunities to cross their 
products, and most of them crossed by who have a criminal 
record, are smuggling illegal narcotics or weapons or aliens 
from specific interest countries.''
    CBP encounters with migrants in the state's Tucson Sector 
are already up over 140 percent in Fiscal Year 2024. Many 
people don't know that. Many people assume that the worst part 
of the border crisis is happening in other states. However, it 
is right here, in this sector. This is ground zero for this.
    At the beginning of the year, we experienced a port of 
entry closure here in Arizona, in Lukeville. I was very vocal 
against that closing. As temporary as it was, it was harmful. 
This is in addition to all of our Border Patrol checkpoints 
being closed as well. When ports of entry are closed, trade and 
commerce suffer. We heard that this morning from a panel as 
well.
    That is one of the very unique things about this 2-day trip 
that my colleagues and I are taking. It is focused on the 
border security aspect of it, but it is also focused on the 
environmental impact, the humanitarian impact, on trade and 
commerce. We heard from these people at the border that are 
crossing trade and commerce and goods and services across of 
how much it impacts what is happening here. So, when the ports 
of entry are closed, trade and commerce will suffer, and this 
should be unacceptable.
    But on top of that, when ports of entry are closed and 
overrun, migrants have been pouring into Arizona's more remote 
and less easily guarded territories, namely the Federal lands. 
We have seen reports of smugglers and cartels actively 
directing migrants towards Arizona's sparsely populated public 
lands, border areas, as a means of entering the United States.
    One thing that is very tragic, as well, as I know we will 
hear from our panel is the morale of our Border Patrol agents 
and how much they are suffering. So, I do want to take time, at 
this point right now, to thank them for all their work and 
being on the front lines for us every single day.
    Moreover, when you have bad actors, they often don't want 
to be caught and encountered by CBP, so instead, to evade 
direction, they often are smuggled north. One of the 
consequences of this is that they often end up in a vehicle on 
a high-speed chase with law enforcement if they are caught. 
That is why I introduced H.R. 5585. I am not going to say that 
was my idea. That actually came from a meeting that I had with 
local law enforcement here and Border Patrol agents, when I 
said, as soon as I came into Congress, what is one bill that I 
could pass, that we could introduce, that would address some of 
the issues that you have. Name me one, and they named a 
description of what we ended up passing.
    We were proud to pass that bill through the U.S. House of 
Representatives last week with bipartisan support, including 
every single one of the Members that is at this table, that 
voted for that bill today. So, thank you to my colleagues for 
that.
    This is a reality here in Cochise County, and I know our 
witnesses are well equipped to speak on these issues.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mr. Ciscomani.
    Next, we are going to turn to our witness panel. Let me 
remind the witnesses that under Committee Rules, you must limit 
your oral statement to 5 minutes, but your entire statement 
will appear in the hearing record.
    To begin your testimony, please press the ``on'' button on 
the microphone. We use timing lights. When you begin, the light 
will turn green. At the end of 5 minutes, the light will turn 
red, and I will ask you to please complete your statement.
    Now, I would like to recognize our first witness, the 
Honorable Mayor McCaa of Sierra Vista. Thank you for joining us 
today. Sir, you have 5 minutes for your testimony.

       STATEMENT OF THE HON. CLEA McCAA, MAYOR, SIERRA 
                       VISTA, ARIZONA

    Mr. McCaa. Thank you, sir. Good afternoon to the Chair and 
distinguished members of this Committee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to address this Committee regarding the issues that 
our city is having from the perspective of a mayor and 
community leader. I have served the people of Sierra Vista as 
mayor for the past 12 months, and prior to that I retired as a 
combat service-disabled veteran of the great United States 
Army. Additionally, I will submit my view from the perspective 
of a father, husband, mentor, and a pastor.
    Sierra Vista has a population of 45,000, and is located 
about 20 miles from the U.S. border with Mexico. Sierra Vista 
doesn't really feel like a border town. It is a military 
community, home to the Army installation Fort Huachuca, which 
is the home of the Buffalo Soldier. But it is the greatest city 
in the United States, and I stand by that remark.
    As I stated before, Sierra Vista is 20 miles north of Naco, 
Arizona, and it is rare for the dangerous border issues you 
sometimes read about to impact Sierra Vista. In fact, some of 
the national rhetoric on border issues makes it harder for us 
to attract businesses and visitors to our city because people 
assume the area is much more dangerous than it really is. I 
don't want to add any false perceptions about our violent crime 
in our community, but for the past 3 years, the trend of young 
people being recruited as so-called load car drivers does pose 
a real threat to our residents and visitors, which fuels these 
narratives about the violence near the border. Often using 
social media, cartels in Mexico recruit residents in the United 
States to travel to the border, pick up migrants whom the 
cartels refer to as ``loads,'' and transport them north in 
exchange for money. With two main thoroughfares coming through, 
Sierra Vista lies in the path of those load car drivers who 
travel through our community to proceed north.
    In 2020, the Sierra Vista Police Department responded to 19 
vehicle pursuits in our city, and that total increased to 38 in 
2021. By 2022, the number increased to 50 pursuits. And in 
2023, we saw 70 pursuits, where our Police Department was the 
primary pursuing agency in 41 pursuits, and assisted in 29 
other pursuits. The average speed of these load cars drivers in 
those 41 pursuits was 90.5 miles per hour coming through our 
city.
    Those load car drivers, who often are teenagers or young 
adults, are encouraged to drive recklessly through our town to 
discourage pursuits. This has created extremely dangerous 
situations to include load car drivers speeding through 
elementary school zones and crashing into bicyclists. Two other 
incidents resulted in serious accidents at major intersections 
in town, while one that occurred north of the city ended in a 
fatality.
    Several more incidents resulted in motorcyclists being hit 
by load car drivers, but thankfully it was not a fatality, but 
also multiple properties have been damaged due to load car 
drivers hitting concrete walls.
    Our Police Department also saw a significant increase in 
felony case submissions to the Cochise County Attorney's 
Office, from 343 in 2020 to 588 in 2022. The number of felony 
submissions remained high last year, with 531 in 2023. I want 
to reiterate that this increase does not stem from the violent 
crimes some may fear plague communities near the border, but is 
largely tied to the surge of incidents related to load car 
drivers. These incidents tie up a significant amount of time 
for our Police Department's limited manpower.
    I grew up in Sierra Vista and graduated from the local high 
school, Buena High School--Go Colts. I have since raised my 
family in this extraordinary community. It is a wonderful place 
to call home. But recently I felt worried about my family 
members' safety in a way that I have never felt before. I have 
encouraged family members to avoid the major highways that run 
through town, to stick to local streets because I know these 
load car drivers pose a very serious threat to their safety. I 
am not alone in feeling this way, as many have witnessed the 
reckless driving and dangerous behavior of these drivers, and 
many others have seen headlines about the damage and harm they 
have caused.
    Our law enforcement officers are burning out because they 
are responding to speeding load cars in our county around the 
clock. We do not have the resources or the personnel to handle 
this sustained surge in illegal immigration. This county-wide 
issue has caused the Cochise County majors to form a coalition 
to stand behind our sheriff, police chiefs, and our Federal 
partners in crafting a letter, which I have here, to President 
Biden, describing our issues and noting the critical work that 
our officers and deputies are doing in our county to make it 
safe.
    We urge you to make securing the U.S. border and supporting 
our local, county, and Federal law enforcement a top priority. 
Our communities depend on you. Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. McCaa follows:]
    
     Prepared Statement of Clea McCaa, Mayor, Sierra Vista, Arizona

    Good afternoon to the Chair and distinguished members of this 
committee.
    I appreciate the opportunity to address this committee regarding 
the issues that the city is having from the perspective of a mayor and 
community leader. I have served the people of Sierra Vista as mayor for 
12 months and prior to that, retired as a combat service--disabled 
veteran of the US. Army. Additionally, I will submit my view from the 
perspective of a father, husband, mentor, and pastor. Sierra Vista has 
a population of about 45,000 and is located about 20 miles from the US 
border with Mexico. Sierra Vista doesn't feel much like a border town. 
It's a military community home to the Army installation Fort Huachuca 
which is the home of the Buffalo Soldier.
    It has a diverse, well-traveled population, who have settled here 
often by choice to a quiet, safe lifestyle with a wealth of outdoor 
recreational opportunities. I would like to say it's the best city in 
the country and I will stand by that remark.
    As I stated we are about 20 miles north of Naco, AZ and it's rare 
for the dangerous border issues you sometimes read about to impact 
Sierra Vista. In fact, some of the national rhetoric on border issues 
makes it harder for us to attract visitors and businesses to our city 
because people assume the area is more dangerous than it really is. I 
don't want to add any false perceptions about violent crime in our 
community. But for the past three years the trend of young people being 
recruited as so-called load car drivers does pose a very real threat to 
our residents and visitors, which fuels those narratives about violence 
near the border. Often using social media, cartels in Mexico recruit 
residents in the United States to travel to the border to pick up 
migrants whom the cartels refer to as loads and transport them north in 
exchange for money. With two main thoroughfares, Sierra Vista lies in 
the path of those load car drivers who travel through our community to 
proceed north.
    In 2020 the Sierra Vista Police Department responded to 19 vehicle 
pursuits in our City and that total increased to 38 in 2021. By 2022, 
the number increased to 50 pursuits, and 2023 saw a record total of 70 
pursuits where the Sierra Vista Police Department was the primary 
pursuing agency in 41 vehicle pursuits, and assisted in 29 other 
pursuits. The average maximum speed of the 41 SVPD pursuits was 90.5 
miles per hour through our city.
    These load car drivers, who are often teenagers or young adults, 
are encouraged to drive recklessly through our town to discourage 
pursuits. This has created extremely dangerous situations to include a 
load car driver speeding through an elementary school zone and crashing 
into a bicyclist. Two other incidents resulted in serious accidents at 
major intersections in town, while one that occurred north of the city 
ended in a fatality.
    Several more incidents resulted in a motorcyclist being hit by a 
load car, but thankfully it was not a fatality, and also multiple 
properties being damaged due to load cars hitting their concrete walls. 
The Sierra Vista Police Department also saw a significant increase in 
felony case submissions to the Cochise County Attorney's Office from 
343 in 2020 to 588 in 2022. The number of felony submissions remained 
high last year with 531 in 2023.
    I want to reiterate that this increase does not stem from violent 
crimes some may fear plague communities near the border, but is largely 
tied to the surge in incidents related to load car drivers. These 
incidents tie up a significant amount of SVPD's limited manpower.
    I grew up in Sierra Vista and graduated from the local high school, 
Buena High School (GO Colts!). I have since raised my family in this 
extraordinary community. It is a wonderful place to call home. But 
recently I felt worried for my family members' safety in a way that I 
never have had to think about before.
    I have encouraged family members to avoid the major highways 
running through town and stick to local streets because I know these 
load car drivers pose a very real threat to their safety. I am not 
alone in feeling this way as many have witnessed the reckless, 
dangerous behavior of these drivers and many others have seen headlines 
about the damage and harm they have caused.
    Our law enforcement officers are burning out responding to speeding 
load cars in our county around the clock. We do not have the resources 
or personnel to handle this sustained surge in illegal immigration. 
This county wide issue has caused Cochise County mayors to form a 
coalition standing behind our Sheriff, Police Chiefs, and our federal 
partners, crafting a letter to President Biden describing our issues 
and noting the critical work that our officers are doing to keep our 
county safe. We urge you to make securing the US border and supporting 
local, county, and federal law enforcement a top priority. Our 
communities depend on it.
                               ______
                                
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mayor McCaa. I will now recognize 
the Honorable Mark Dannels, Sheriff of Cochise County, for 5 
minutes. Sheriff Dannels.

             STATEMENT OF THE HON. MARK DANNELS, SHERIFF, 
                       COCHISE COUNTY, ARIZONA

    Sheriff Dannels. Thank you. Good afternoon Chairman 
Tiffany, Chairman Westerman, and distinguished members here 
today. Welcome to Cochise County, and on behalf of the citizens 
and my fellow sheriffs, we appreciate you.
    I have served our border communities for 40 years, and 
prior to that I served in the U.S. Army stationed here at Fort 
Huachuca. I have worked with all my four major associations and 
the United States with sheriffs, and we have three major 
objectives: public safety, national security, and humanitarian.
    I am proud of the relationship with all our law enforcement 
partners, state, local, and Federal. We work very well 
together. I am proud of our governors, Governor Ducey and 
Governor Hobbs, who have stood in our corner here in Cochise 
County to support us in our mission to secure our border and 
the rule of law. I also want to give a shout-out to my citizens 
here in Cochise County for their patience, their patience, and 
their patience. They have been through a lot here.
    To best understand my presentation is to understand where 
we were 3 years ago. My county is one of the safest counties, 
based on innovative programs and efforts here and our collected 
governmental and prioritizations, our messaging, and yes, 
enforcement efforts supported by the rule of law.
    My citizens and law enforcement address mostly got-aways, 
fight-and-flight in my county, versus those giving up.
    Border-related crimes are at an all-time high in Cochise 
County. Death, murder and investigations, illicit drug 
poisonings, aggravated acts against my citizens, failure to 
yield, search and rescue/recovery, and yes, aggravated assaults 
against our law enforcement officials. My deputies in law 
enforcement continue to be placed in life-threatening scenarios 
as the cartels show no regard for citizens and those that wear 
a badge.
    Cochise County Sheriff's Office detention bookings related 
to just border-related state crimes in calendar year 2022 and 
2023: 2,884 people were booked in my jail for border crimes, up 
to murder; 566 smugglers, which is a Class 2 felony, were 
apprehended and booked in my jail, and that is over a 15-month 
window; 414 failures to yield, high-risk pursuits were booked 
in my jail at a cost of $9.4 million. And I will just say this 
to you here. We get zero money from the Federal Government.
    Fentanyl continues to poison and kill Americans at an 
alarming rate, as mentioned by the Chairman earlier, leaving 
families and communities devastated, not just here in Cochise 
County but in our great nation. Arizona efforts by law 
enforcement are remarkable, but the war on drugs must be a 
priority topic and not deserted by political rhetoric. Arizona 
fentanyl seizures account for 51 percent of all the fentanyl 
seized in the country, sad to say. In the four border counties, 
it was 35 million pills 2 years ago, and that is up this year. 
In Federal Fiscal Year 2022, Arizona seized over 60 million 
fentanyl pills. Again, Arizona counties had 35 million, which 
includes four counties.
    In closing, my fellow sheriffs and I have tried to partner 
with this Administration to include the President of the United 
States with high hopes to share a collective message, a 
collective action plan, support the rule of law, prioritize our 
southern border and all our borders, and provide updates 
towards community impacts and concerns, with no success. To 
this date, we have not met with the President, and that is not 
one sheriff.
    By allowing our border security mission and immigration 
laws to be discretionary, these criminal cartels continue to be 
the true winners. Their exploitation of mankind is simply 
modern-day slavery, allowing thousands of pounds of illicit 
drugs into our country that continue to erode the core value of 
families, schools, and subsequently killing Americans, on 
average, 290 per day. It is completely unacceptable at any 
level. Experiencing migrant deaths without a reasonable process 
while Members of U.S. Congress and this Administration 
intentionally avoid reality is gross negligence.
    Our voice of reason has been buried during what I call 
``intellectual avoidance'' by this Administration, and yes, 
Members of U.S. Congress. Communities have been neglected and 
abandoned, relying on their own local and state resources to 
address a border that is in crisis mode. Our southern border, 
against all public, well-designed statements out of Washington, 
DC, is in the worst shape I have ever seen it in my 40-year 
career. When I look at public safety, national security, and 
the humanitarian, our southern border has become the largest 
crime scene in this country.
    I am a true believer that Customs and Border Patrol are the 
experts of border security, while sheriffs and police chiefs 
are the experts of community. Together, this is a recipe of 
success for all communities and engagement.
    I would leave you with this final statement. We all serve 
the priorities of Americans, based on our shared oaths of 
office to keep them safe, enhance their quality of life, and 
support the rule of law, absent political affiliation or the 
concern of re-election. I ask each one of you to reflect on 
this statement as you make your decisions to vote.
    Once again, I thank this Committee for the invite and the 
opportunity, and now stand ready to answer questions here in a 
few minutes. Thank you, all.

    [The prepared statement of Sheriff Dannels follows:]
    
  Prepared Statement of Mark Dannels, Sheriff, Cochise County, Arizona

    Good Afternoon Chairman (Bruce) Westerman, Ranking Member (Raul) M. 
Grijalva and the Honorable members of this subcommittee. On behalf the 
citizens of Cochise County and the State of Arizona, and my fellow 
Sheriffs, Thank You for having me.
    I have served our border communities for 40 years and prior to 
that, as a member of our military serving in the U.S. Army stationed at 
Fort Huachuca located within Cochise County. I have always been a 
genuine believer in my Oath of Office to protect my Country, and now my 
County as the duly elected Sheriff for the past 12 years. I am the 
past-President of the Arizona Sheriffs Association, Chair of the 
National Sheriffs Association Border Security, the Executive Board for 
Western States Sheriffs and past leadership positions with the 
Southwest Border Sheriffs.

    All these associations share 3 0bjectives:

Public Safety, National Security and Humanitarian.

    In my submitted brief, I have shared with you all an overview of 
Cochise County and the history of our border. I have personally 
experienced the good, the bad and the ugly of being a border county. My 
office has always addressed border-related crimes, smuggling of both 
illicit drugs, humans, weapons and cash by our Transnational 
Organizations i.e. Criminal Cartels.
    I am proud of our relationships with all our law enforcement 
partners that serve our communities.
    To begin, I want to ''Thank'' our Customs & Border Patrol Officers 
and Agents who have worked tirelessly and diligently to protect this 
great nation. I want to ``Thank'' our Governors; Ducey and Hobbs and 
our State Congressional Members for all their support. The men and 
women of the Cochise County Sheriff's Office for their dedication and 
commitment in keeping our communities safe. To all my fellow Sheriffs 
that stand united for the Rule of Law in the protection of their 
communities. And, finally, I want to ''Thank'' my citizens for their 
patience and support in a time of crisis and disarray.
    To best understand my presentation is to understand where we were 
over 3 years ago. My county was one on the safest border counties based 
on our collective governmental efforts, prioritization, messaging and 
yes, enforcement efforts supported by the Rule of Law.

The direct impact to my county/office:

    My citizens and law enforcement address mostly Got-Aways ``Fight & 
Flight'' in my County versus those giving up.

    100% Camouflaged migrants being illegally smuggled by the Cartels, 
price tag per UDA begins at $7000 and up.

    These smugglers include juveniles being recruited via social media 
by the Criminal Cartels.

    Border Related Booking (Detention) Costs over the last 24 months is 
$9.4 million, absorbed by my local and state taxpayers.

Border-related Crime at an all-time high:

    Death/Murder investigations, Illicit Drug Poisonings, Aggravated 
acts against my citizens, Failure to Yields, Search and Rescue/Recovery 
and yes, assaults against law enforcement officials.

    My deputies/law enforcement continue to be placed in life-
threatening scenarios as the Cartels shows no regard for my citizens 
and/or those that wear a badge.

    Agents, Troopers, Deputies and Officers are addressing dangerous 
scenarios/criminals as a direct result of an ``Open Border'' exploited 
by these criminal cartels for Violence, Fear and Greed.

    Cochise County Sheriffs Office Detention Bookings related to 
Border:

        In calendar years 2022/2023:

        2884 Suspects booked into my jail for border-related crimes.

        566 Smugglers (state law violation) 414 Failure to Yields

        154 Non-Citizens

        $9.4 Million Cost to local/state

    Fentanyl continues to poison/kill Americans at an alarming rate 
leaving families and communities devasted. Arizona efforts by law 
enforcement are remarkable, but the War on Drugs must be a priority 
topic and not deserted by political rhetoric. Arizona fentanyl seizures 
accounts for 51% of all the fentanyl seized in the country. In federal 
fiscal year 2022 Arizona seized over 60 million Fentanyl pills. The 4 
Arizona border counties seized 35 million Fentanyl pills with an 
anticipated increase for 2023 Federal fiscal year.
    In closing, my fellow Sheriffs and I have tried to partner with 
this administration to include the President of the United States with 
high hopes to share a Collective Message, Collective Action Plan, 
Support the Rule of Law, Prioritize our southern border and provide 
updates reference Community Impacts and Concerns with little to no 
success.
    By allowing our border security mission and immigration laws to be 
discretionary, these Criminal Cartels continue to be the true winners, 
their exploitation of mankind is simply ``Modern Day Slavery''; 
allowing thousands of pounds of illicit drugs into our country that 
continue to erode the core-values of families, schools and subsequently 
killing Americans on an average of 290 every day is completely 
unacceptable at any level. Experiencing migrant deaths without a 
reasonable process while members of our U.S. Congress and this 
Administration intentionally avoids reality is gross negligence.
    Our voice of reason has been buried during what I call an 
``Intellectual Avoidance'' by this Administration and yes, members of 
U.S. Congress. Communities have been neglected and abandoned relying on 
our own local and state resources to address a border that is in crisis 
mode.
    Our southern border, against all public well-designed statements 
out of Washington D.C. is in the worst shape I have ever seen it. When 
one looks at Public Safety, National Security, and Humanitarian, our 
southern border is the largest crime scene in the country.
    The morale of agents is extremely low, and the collective 
frustration is very high amongst law enforcement at all levels and most 
important, our citizens.
    I am a true believer that Customs and Border Patrol are the experts 
of Border Security while Sheriffs and Police Chiefs are the experts of 
community, together, this is a Recipe of Success for all communities!
    I will leave you with this final statement, we all serve the 
priorities of Americans based on our shared Oaths of Office to keep 
them Safe, enhance their Quality of Life and Support the Rule of Law 
absent political affiliation or the concern of reelection; I ask each 
one of you to reflect on this statement as you make your next decision 
to vote.
    Once again, I thank this committee for the invite and opportunity 
and now, stand ready to answer any questions by members.

                         SUPPLEMENTAL TESTIMONY

                U.S. House Subcommittee on Federal Lands

Introduction

    Testimony of Mr. Mark J. Dannels, Cochise County Sheriff, Arizona 
before the U.S. House of Representatives Subcommittee on Federal Lands 
reference a scheduled hearing on ``Biden's Border Crisis: The 
Consequences of Failing to Secure Federal Border Lands.'' The hearing 
will be held on Thursday, February 8, 2024, at 1:30 p.m. at the Cochise 
College, 901 Colombo Avenue, Sierra Vista, Arizona 85635.
    Chairman Bruce Westerman, Ranking Member Raul M. Grijalva and 
Distinguished Members of this Committee, thank you for the invitation 
to speak to you today on this very important subject reference: Public 
Safety, National Security, and Humanitarian and the impact to our 
Federal Lands.

History of Cochise County

    With eighty-three miles of international border within its 
jurisdiction, Cochise County plays a significant role in combating drug 
and human trafficking organizations and the associated violent crime 
which adversely affects Arizona residents and other areas throughout 
the United States. In 1990 the Office of National Drug Control Policy 
(ONDCP) designated Cochise County as a High Intensity Drug Trafficking 
area within southern Arizona. This designation is a direct result of 
overwhelming and sustained levels of illicit drug and human trafficking 
within Cochise County.
    With 6,219 square miles, Cochise County is as large as the states 
of Rhode Island and Connecticut combined. The estimated population of 
the county in 2022 is approximately 125,000. The geography of the 
county consists of seven incorporated cities to include the historical 
town of Tombstone. Surrounded by vast areas of desolate uninhabited 
desert and mountainous terrain, the seven cities only represent a 
combined area of 215 square miles, leaving 6004 square miles of 
unincorporated area. These desolate areas are routinely exploited for 
smuggling routes by the drug/human traffickers and pose one of the 
greatest challenges to local law enforcements effort in establishing 
border security and interdiction efforts. Cochise County is the 38th 
largest land mass county in the United States, and is home to the 
United States Army base, Fort Huachuca. Throughout the history of the 
county ranching and farming has played a significant part in its 
legacy.
    Unlike other border counties in Arizona, Cochise County is unique 
in that there are two cities in the Republic of Mexico situated on the 
international border within the county. The cities of Agua Prieta and 
Naco, with an estimated population of 80,000 and 10,000 respectively, 
are well know to U.S. Law Enforcement officials as staging and 
operational centers for one of Mexico's largest and most notorious drug 
cartels. The Sinaloa Cartel has long employed the use of local Mexican 
Drug and Human Trafficking Organizations (DTOs) to carry out the 
Cartel's illegal distribution and transportation of illicit drugs and 
humans into and throughout the United States.
    These international DTOs also utilize their established smuggling 
routes in Cochise County to transport the Cartels illicit profits such 
as U.S. currency, firearms, and ammunition into Mexico. A large portion 
of the profit is used to sustain control over the corridor through the 
use of violence against law enforcement, rival trafficking 
organizations, and bribes of government officials.
    The Mexican drug trafficking organizations operating in Cochise 
County are highly sophisticated and innovative in their transportation 
methods. Aside from the normal use of human backpackers (mules), 
clandestine tunnels, and vehicles, the trafficking organizations have 
resorted to the use of ultra light aircraft which cannot be detected by 
normal radar, cloned vehicles appearing to be law enforcement or other 
legitimate companies and the use of catapults which hurl bundles of 
marijuana into the U.S. to awaiting co-conspirators. The organizations 
utilize sophisticated and technical communications and counter 
surveillance equipment to counter law enforcements interdiction tactics 
and strategies. Scouts or observers are strategically placed along 
smuggling routes to perform counter surveillance on law enforcement and 
report their observations to those controlling the drug/human smuggling 
operation so they may avoid and elude law enforcement. The use of 
cellphones and sophisticated two-way radio encryptions for 
communications are standard equipment, as are night vision and forward 
looking infra-red devices.
    Violence against innocent citizens, public officials, law 
enforcement, and rival drug/human trafficking groups in Mexico 
continues to escalate. Cochise County's law enforcement and private 
citizen fears of it spilling into the county were realized in 2010 when 
a longtime Cochise County resident rancher was senselessly murdered 
while inspecting fences on his ranch. Further complicating the concerns 
is the potential for foreign terrorist to employ drug/human trafficking 
organizations to smuggle individuals and or weapons of mass destruction 
into the United States through Cochise County.
    The adverse affects of the drug and human trafficking organizations 
operating in Cochise County not only have significantly diminished the 
quality of life of county residents, but also placed unbearable strain 
upon the budgets and resources of private and government agencies in 
the county.
    Historically speaking, illegal border crossings into the United 
States are well known in southern Arizona and recognized as a part of 
everyday life within Cochise County and throughout the southwest 
border. Many years ago, Cochise County citizens were not overly alarmed 
when they observed a handful of undocumented aliens traveling through 
private or public lands in search of jobs. Unfortunately, over time 
these groups dramatically increased in size and became more reckless, 
aggressive, and violent, bringing unrest and fear to the citizens 
living on the border. Examples of this include reckless high-speed 
pursuits, assaults on citizens, rapes, kidnappings, murders, and home 
invasions to steal one's private and personal possessions. It was 
apparent the search for the American dream was being over-shadowed by 
these smugglers, mules, coyotes, bandits, and transnational criminals 
preying upon our citizens and country.
    Having the true-life experience to live and work as a law 
enforcement officer/deputy and now Sheriff in Cochise County since 
1984, it has been an educational lesson for me reference border 
security. I have witnessed the escalation of violence by these careless 
assailants on our citizens raising the question, who actually controls 
our borders? Cochise County has become known as the gateway to illegal 
activity for those unlawfully entering the United States.

History: Federal Government's Border Security Plan of the 90s

    In the early 1990s, the federal government prepared a plan to 
address the unsecure, unsafe border. At a press conference in Tucson, 
Arizona, a Border Patrol spokesman announced their intent to secure the 
populated areas of the border, specifically San Diego, Yuma and El Paso 
and the International Ports of Entry. These targeted areas, which I 
call the ``Ps = Ports and Population'', would be the federal 
government's focus points. The second half of their plan was to reroute 
the illegal activity/disturbances into the rural parts of the southwest 
border with the thought that these cartel organizations and smuggling 
groups would be deterred by the rugged and mountainous regions along 
the border.
    Since the release of the plan, many changes have taken place. 
Specifically, Cochise County initially increased their staffing of 
Border Patrol agents to a sufficient number for the threat at that 
time. Over the last few years, it has again decreased from a 
significant force to a scant number within Cochise County to secure and 
protect the 83 miles of international border. Infrastructure, such as 
metal fencing, lightning, cameras, sensors, radars, etc. have been 
installed between both ports and some distance beyond bringing some 
needed relief to this area and those that live within. Unfortunately, 
upgrades were halted by President Biden's executive order on his first 
day of office leaving our border's infrastructure in disarray. 
Secondary immigration checkpoints were established on routes (roadways) 
20-40 miles north of the border but due to staffing shortages, remains 
closed most of the time.
    Over the last several years, our southern border has drastically 
changed for the worse. I have personally experienced our once 
manageable border become a crisis over the last 36 months supported by 
the attached statistics and increased criminal activity. The Covid 
health pandemic placed many restrictions on foreign travel, but the 
conversation regarding illegal entry at our southern border was 
neglected by our federal leaders. The health exposure and risk 
experienced by law enforcement officers, deputies and agents became 
secondary in public restrictions and concerns. In fact, the 
intellectual avoidance by this administration to actively engage and 
support our efforts has been absent. Certain members of U.S. Congress 
continue to ignore our immigration laws/crisis abandoning communities 
as they struggle to address these challenges. I would remind my fellow 
elected leaders, we share the same Oath of Office to protect this great 
country, not to be driven by personal ideologies, but by and for the 
People.
    Sheriffs throughout the country have worked tirelessly to engage 
and provide solutions, (i.e. a 16-point action plan prepared by 
America's Sheriffs) with Homeland Security Secretary Mayorkas with no 
success. As a result, the membership of Western States Sheriffs 
Association issued a Position statement of NO Confidence against 
Secretary Mayorkas and Vice President Harris.

    The existing border plan has been in place for approximately 30 
years and the following are some thoughts regarding the plan in current 
time:

     An increase in illegal smuggling/activity/illicit drugs 
            between the protected areas (ports)

     Increase in larger groups of undocumented aliens between 
            the protected areas (ports)

     Increase in illegal activity outside the protected areas 
            (ports)

     Fear/Frustration increased in rural Cochise County/
            Southwest Border

     Ranch and Farmlands damaged due to increased illegal 
            activity

     Property (fencing, livestock, waterlines, etc.) damaged

     Burglaries/Thefts increased in rural Cochise County/
            Southwest Border

     Social Media has become a venue for smuggling recruitment 
            mainly focused on juveniles

     Violent Crimes increased i.e., Homicides, Assaults, Rapes, 
            Drug and Human Smuggling, etc. in rural Cochise County/
            Southwest Border

     Transnational Cartels/Smuggling Organizations controlled 
            and set up smuggling routes in rural Cochise County/
            Southwest Border

     Lack of Border Patrol Agents directly on border due to 
            administrative processing assignments

     Secondary checkpoints were established as a secondary 
            deterrent but remain closed the majority of the time due to 
            staff shortages

     Lack of Re-Definition to the plan of the 90s (time erased 
            history)

     Loss of recreational land use due to fear of criminal 
            activity

     Economic decline

     Legacy Ranches being sold

     Lack of federally elected leaders to address unsecure 
            border/fears creating a lack of trust and anger by citizens

     Questionable/Absent consequences by our federal government 
            by those committing border crimes

     Undue pressure on local law enforcement/Sheriffs/Community 
            Leaders to address issues, fear, and consequences for those 
            committing crimes

     Lack of funding for local law enforcement/criminal justice 
            system/corrections in order to address border crimes at the 
            local level due to federal government lack of intervention

     Border Security shall be a Mandate, not a Discretionary 
            program

     Border Security v. Immigration Reform (two different 
            programs not to be blended)

     Lack of Trust and Confidence in our Federal Government

Action-Based Solutions Local-State Government

    Local Solutions and Programs are no longer a thought, but a reality 
for bringing relief to our citizens who consciously choose to live near 
our borders. No better example of the importance of local law 
enforcement during a national crisis was the terrorist attack on 
September 11, 2001. First responders from local police and fire were 
the first on scene to address this horrific threat. Local law 
enforcement is best suited to best understand community needs and 
solutions based on the expectations of their citizens. Community 
policing begins and succeeds at the local level first.
    As the Sheriff of Cochise County, I embrace my elected and 
statutory duty (oath of office to support the United States 
Constitution and the Arizona Constitution) to protect and secure the 
Freedoms and Liberties of my citizens, with or without the help of our 
federal law enforcement partners/policy makers. No longer a debate by 
those that live in the rural parts of the southwest border, the rural 
parts of the Southwest Border are NOT secure and are vulnerable for ALL 
types of transnational criminal activity.

    Working with limited budgets and staffing, Sheriffs along the 
southwest border struggle each and every day to find ways to enhance 
the quality of life/safety for those they serve and bring a general 
sense of deterrence for those choosing our border as a venue to promote 
their criminal enterprises. The following bullet points are action-
driven solutions implemented in hopes of bringing some relief and sense 
of security for those living in Cochise County:

     Balanced Community Policing (Education, Prevention, 
            Enforcement)

     Transparency + Time = Community Trust

     Collaborated Efforts by all 3 levels of Government

     Creation of a Southwest Border Security Facility in 
            Cochise County

     Law and Order Partnership between Sheriff and County 
            Attorney

     Safe Street Enforcement Programs

     Private and Public Funding donations/grants to purchase 
            upgraded equipment/communications

     Installation of New Radios/Towers/Consoles/Microwave

     Portable Radios to Citizens/Ranchers/Farmers/Schools

     Interoperability/Intelligence Sharing at all 3 levels

     Regional Application for Law Enforcement

     Financial Interdiction Unit

     Regional Border Team by Sheriff supported by Border 
            Patrol, ICE, U.S. Forest

     Ranch Advisory Team

     Ranch Patrol

     Financial Crime Unit

     Consequence Driven Prosecution (all 3 levels)

     Virtual Cameras, Sensors, ATVs, Thermal Vehicle, Off-Road 
            Vehicle, etc.

     Factual Situational Awareness for Media, Elected 
            Officials, America

     Quarterly Law Enforcement Leadership Meetings

     Community Outreach Unit

     Community Meet & Greets within Communities

     Aviation Program (Helicopter & Drone)

     Positive-Interactive Use of Media and Social Media

Recommendations Federal Government
    The Federal Government (elected and policy makers) has been slow to 
react to the voices and concerns of those living on the southwest 
border. Cochise County and other counties along the border have become 
VIP attractions, venues for those seeking to make a difference or 
promising change only to become another community-public safety 
disappointment.

    The following comprehensive recommendations are directly linked to 
our federal leaders:

     Collective Message between Local, State and Federal

     Shared Action Plans by Local, State and Federal Law 
            Enforcement

     Remove ``Politics'' and Enforce the ``Rule of Law''

     Hire more Immigration and Asylum Hearing Officers for all 
            POEs.

     Re-evaluate the plan of the 90s and build upon successes

     Political-Will required to make Border Security a Mandated 
            Program

     Immediate need to address the Criminal Cartels 
            (Transnational Organizations)

     Border Security First, Immigration Reform Second

     Maximize Allocated Resources such as Staffing

     Adequately Fund CBP

     Support and Embrace First-line Agents that work the border 
            regions, they have a dangerous job and it's no secret that 
            their frustration is high based on the unknown complexities 
            reference their assignments, they have great ideas to share

     Secondary Checkpoints only after Primary border 
            interdiction is satisfied by stakeholders

     Quality in life/Citizens living on border supported by 
            Sheriffs and State Governors regarding improved security/ 
            safety

     Funding supplement for Local Law Enforcement/Prosecution/
            Detention/Criminal Justice in support of border crimes

     Continued Funding and Support for Stone Garden Program

     Empowerment with action to Border Patrol Leadership/PAICs 
            (currently Cochise County has dedicated and solution-driven 
            leaders that work well with local law enforcement)

     Enhanced Funding for Regional Communication and 
            Interoperability with local law enforcement

     Bring local Law Enforcement to Border Security and 
            Immigration discussions

Summary

    Our local efforts have proven to be very beneficial in bringing 
over-due solutions to an unsecure border that has become a 
discretionary program by those federally elected leaders and policy 
makers that have been entrusted to protect our freedoms and liberties. 
As a Sheriff elected by the good people of my county, my biggest fear 
is another loss of life to one of my citizens and/or law enforcement 
officers/agents contributed to a border that is NOT secure. One would 
hope the priority of securing our border doesn't become just about a 
price tag and/or political posturing, but rather the legal and moral 
requirement to safeguard all of America, which so many heroic Americans 
have already paid the ultimate price for.
    Today's opportunity to address this group instills fresh hope that 
our voice does matter and on behalf of the citizens of Cochise County, 
Arizona, our nation's Sheriffs and beyond, we hope you won't forget us 
and will do your Constitutional mandate to bring positive change to an 
over-due vulnerable situation.
    I will leave each one of you with an open invitation to visit 
Cochise County along with a personal-guided tour and visit with our 
citizens to hear/see first-hand America's true rural border.
    Again, thank you very much for the opportunity to share this 
information with you. I will be happy to answer any questions you may 
have.

                                 *****

The following documents were submitted as supplements to Mr. Dannels' 
testimony. These documents are part of the hearing record and are being 
retained in the Committee's official files:

    --Sheriff Mark Dannels' Bio

    --CCSO Annual Message 2024

    --CCSO Annual Message 2023

    --CCSO Annual Message 2022

    --CCSO Border Related Issues in 2022

    --CCSO Multi-Tier Border Operational Plan

    --CCSO Detention Statistical Form 2023

    --CCSO Detention Statistical Form 2022

    --CCSO State of the Arizona--Sonora Border 2023

    --Cochise County Mayors' Letter 2024

    --Arizona House of Representatives 2023

    --National Sheriffs Letter ref Call for Action at the Border Threat 
            Picture 2023

    --Cochise County Multi-Agency Public Safety Announcement 2023

    --National Sheriffs Letter ref Eradication of Drug Cartels 2023

    --National Sheriffs Letter to White House 2023

    --State of Arizona Legislative Proclamation 2022

    --Arizona Sheriffs Vote of No Confidence V.P. Harris 2022

    --Southwest Border Sheriffs Coalition Vote of No Confidence V.P. 
            Harris 2022

    --Texas Border Sheriffs Coalition Vote of No Confidence V.P. Harris 
            2022

    --Western States Sheriffs' Association Vote of No Confidence V.P. 
            Harris 2022

    --Western States Sheriffs' Association Vote of No Confidence Sec. 
            Mayorkas

    --National Sheriffs' Association Letter to White House 2021

    --Wild life Photos on the International Border

These documents along with this testimony are available for viewing at:

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/II/II10/20240208/116752/HHRG-118-II10-
Wstate-DannelsM-20240208.pdf

                                 ______
                                 

    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Sheriff Dannels. I appreciate your 
testimony.
    I would now like to recognize Mr. Art Del Cueto, Executive 
Board Member of the National Border Patrol Council. Mr. Del 
Cueto, you have 5 minutes for your testimony.

    STATEMENT OF ART DEL CUETO, VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL 
          BORDER PATROL COUNCIL, TUCSON, ARIZONA

    Mr. Del Cueto. Thank you so much. First and foremost, I 
want to say that I am a proud individual that grew up in 
Cochise County, down in Douglas--Go Bulldogs.
    I want to thank everyone for being here today. My name is 
Art Del Cueto. I am on the Executive Board of the National 
Border Patrol Council. It represents the interests of the 
frontline Border Patrol agents. I am here because what we are 
doing on the border is not working. Let me provide a few 
statistics and put the numbers into perspective.
    Since President Biden took office, in Fiscal Year 2022 
through Fiscal Year 2023, we have apprehended 6.2 million 
people on the southwest border. For context, the entire 
population of the state of Arizona is a little over 7 million. 
Last year alone, we apprehended almost 2.5 million people 
illegally entering our country. Of last year's groups, over 
35,000 had prior criminal convictions or outstanding warrants 
for arrest in the United States. Approximately 170 of them were 
on the terrorist watch list.
    The number of got-aways is just as shocking. Since 
President Biden took office, we have observed 1.7 million 
people walk right into this country without being arrested. 
Those are just what we know of. That is more people than live 
in Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio, or Dallas. They walked 
into this country without being arrested because agents were 
not available to arrest them.
    All of this is to say, in the last 3 years of the Biden 
administration, we have lost operational control of our border. 
The drug cartels who control both narcotics and illegal alien 
smuggling are in control of our southern border.
    I want to be clear: this crisis is not just about illegal 
immigration. The cartels that illegally smuggle migrants into 
this country are the same ones that are smuggling drugs. Those 
drugs impact every community nationwide. Over 100,000 Americans 
have died of overdose in the last year. We will have another 
100,000 deaths in 2024, and every year moving forward until we 
secure our border.
    And it is not just about the overdose deaths. The murders, 
muggings, and carjackings that we see on the evening news are 
largely a by-product of narcotics trafficking and drug 
addiction. This violence will not stop until we secure our 
border.
    The question is, are we prepared to do something about it? 
Winston Churchill once said Americans always do the right 
thing, but only after we have exhausted every single option. 
When it comes to border security, we have exhausted every 
single option.
    I know this hearing is about Federal lands and how the 
Biden administration has failed, and they have failed, to 
secure our southern border. Believe me, I could talk about that 
all day. However, I want to use the remaining time to discuss 
the border security supplement that was trying to get proposed 
through the Senate. I know that it is completely gone and it 
has imploded. But as many of you know, the National Border 
Patrol Council supported this legislation, and I would like to 
explain why.
    As long as we continue to catch and release tens of 
thousands of illegal aliens into this country every month the 
crisis will not stop. As long as we allow illegals to game our 
asylum system it will not stop. As long as we do not provide 
Border Patrol, ICE, and USCIS with the resources and legal 
authorities they need to do their jobs this will not stop.
    The single biggest challenge we face right now is that just 
about every illegal immigrant we arrest claims asylum. They are 
doing this not because they have a valid claim but because they 
know that as soon as they do that they can get released because 
the capacity to hold them is not there. And our immigration 
court system is completely overwhelmed. They know that we will 
release them and give them a court date upwards of 10 years 
from now.
    The Senate legislation would have required asylum officers 
to screen immigrants for credible fear under a significantly 
higher standard. This standard was actually piloted under the 
Trump administration in 2019 and 2020, and that led to about 80 
percent of the illegals failing their credible fear interviews. 
It also precludes illegal immigrants caught at the border from 
having access to immigration courts. We would no longer be 
releasing illegal immigrants with a court date 10 years from 
now. Asylum officers would have decided and would deport those 
who fail.
    Equally important, the legislation would have provided a 
mandatory trigger for closing the border. If the weekly average 
of arrests would have exceeded 5,000, the border would have 
been automatically closed. It does not say we would have been 
releasing 5,000. Everyone is sent back to Mexico. If any 
single-day arrest level exceeds 8,500, the border would have 
been closed. Everyone is sent back to Mexico. Gone will be the 
days of the cartels that would have been flooding and 
overwhelming the system.
    No bill is perfect. Are there things that I wish would have 
been included? Of course. Are there things in the package such 
as allowing the Administration to continue to parole migrants 
through the ports of entry? I don't like it. Of course I don't 
like it. However, on this issue, and it is an enormous issue, 
earlier this week we arrested over 6,600 illegal immigrants. 
Over 6,300 of them were released into this country within 48 
hours. Tonight, we are going to apprehend a similar amount, and 
again they are going to get released. We need Congress to act 
now and give us the tools to secure our borders. Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Del Cueto follows:]
    
 Prepared Statement of Art Del Cueto, Executive Board, National Border 
                             Patrol Council

    I want to thank everyone for being here today. My name is Art Del 
Cueto, and I am on the Executive Board of the National Border Patrol 
Council, which represents the interests of the front-line Border Patrol 
Agents. I am here because what we are doing on the border is not 
working. Let me provide a few statistics and put these numbers into 
perspective.
    Since President Biden took office through Fiscal Year 2023, we 
apprehended 6.2 million people along the southwest border. For context, 
the entire population of the State of Arizona is a little over 7 
million. Last fiscal year alone, we apprehended almost two-and-a-half 
million people illegally entering our country. Of last year's group, 
over 35,000 had prior criminal convictions or outstanding warrants for 
their arrest in the United States. Approximately 170 of them were on 
the terrorist watch list.
    The number of gotaways is just as shocking. Since President Biden 
took office, we have observed 1.7 million people walk right into this 
country without being arrested. That is more people than live in 
Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio, or Dallas. They walked into this 
country without being arrested because agents were not available to 
arrest them.
    All of this is to say, in the last three years of the Biden 
Administration, we have lost operational control of our border. The 
drug cartels who control both narcotics and illegal alien smuggling are 
in control of our border.
    I want to be clear: this crisis is not just about illegal 
immigration. The cartels that illegally smuggle immigrants into this 
country are the same ones smuggling drugs. Those drugs impact every 
community nationwide--over 100,000 Americans died of overdoses last 
year. We will have another 100,000 deaths in 2024 and every year moving 
forward until we secure our border.
    And it is not just about the overdose deaths. The murders, 
muggings, and carjackings we see on the evening news are largely a 
byproduct of narcotics trafficking and drug addiction. This violence 
will not stop until we secure our border.
    The question is, are we prepared to do something about it? Winston 
Churchill once said Americans always do the right thing--but only after 
we have exhausted every other option. When it comes to border security, 
we have exhausted every other option.
    I know this hearing is about federal lands and how the Biden 
Administration failed to secure the border. Believe me, I could talk 
about that all day. However, I want to use the remaining time to 
discuss the border security supplemental that the Senate is scheduled 
to vote on this week. I know that it has been reported that the 
compromise deal is imploding. As many of you know, the NBPC supported 
this legislation, and I would like to explain why.
    As long as we continue to catch and release tens of thousands of 
illegal immigrants into this country every month, this crisis will not 
stop. As long as we allow illegal immigrants to game our asylum system, 
this will not stop. As long as we do not provide Border Patrol, ICE, 
and USCIS with the resources and legal authorities we need to do our 
jobs, this will not stop.
    The single biggest challenge we face right now is that just about 
every illegal immigrant we arrest claims asylum. They are doing this 
not because they have a valid claim but because they know we do not 
have the detention capacity to hold them. And, that our immigration 
court system is overwhelmed. They know that we will release them and 
give them a court date upwards of 10 years from now. Our broken asylum 
laws are driving illegal immigration and the chaos at the border.
    The Senate legislation requires asylum officers to screen 
immigrants for credible fear under a significantly higher standard. 
This standard was actually piloted under the Trump Administration in 
2019 and 2020 that led to about 80 percent of the illegal immigrants 
failing their credible fear interviews. It also precludes illegal 
immigrants caught at the border from having access to immigration 
courts. We will no longer be releasing illegal immigrants with a court 
date ten years from now. Asylum officers will quickly decide their 
status, and we will deport those who fail.
    Equally important, the legislation provides a mandatory trigger for 
closing the border. If the weekly average of arrests exceeds 5,000, the 
border is automatically closed. Everyone is sent back to Mexico. If any 
single-day arrest level exceeds 8,500, the border is closed. Everyone 
is sent back to Mexico. Gone will be the days of the cartels flooding 
the zone and overwhelming the system.
    No bill is perfect. Are there things that I wish were included in 
this package and were not--yes. Are there things in the package such as 
allowing the Administration to continue to parole migrants through the 
ports of entry that I don't like--yes. However, the cost of inaction by 
Congress on this issue is enormous. Earlier this week we arrested over 
6,600 illegal immigrants. Over 6,300 of them were released into this 
country within 48 hours. Tonight, we will apprehend a similar number 
and do the same this. We need Congress to act now and give us the tools 
we need to secure the border.

                                 ______
                                 

    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you very much, Mr. Del Cueto, for your 
testimony.
    Now, I would like to recognize Mr. John Boelts, the Vice 
President of the Arizona Farm Bureau. Mr. Boelts, you have 5 
minutes.

       STATEMENT OF JOHN BOELTS, VICE PRESIDENT, ARIZONA
                  FARM BUREAU, YUMA, ARIZONA

    Mr. Boelts. Thank you, Chairman Tiffany, Chairman 
Westerman, members of the House of Representatives, and members 
of this Committee. Thank you for coming to southern Arizona, 
and good afternoon.
    I come before you today to thank you for your attention to 
our man-made crisis at our southern border. Farmers and 
ranchers in Arizona and neighboring states are in many ways on 
the front lines of this public policy disaster, and I will 
mention just a few of those ways in my limited time.
    Ranchers, their families and employees raising livestock 
and managing public and private lands in the areas near our 
border with Mexico face extraordinary challenges with 
inadequate support from our Federal Government. The safety of 
these hardworking people, their families, and property is in 
danger most days and nights due to the lack of law enforcement 
by Federal agencies responsible for border security in these 
areas. People seeking to enter our country without passing 
through a legal port of entry are breaking Federal law. The 
damage these people do to the public and private lands while 
entering unlawfully is unacceptable, and the refuse they leave 
behind is remarkable. Is it too much to ask that the ranchers 
of southern Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas be able 
to raise their livestock and families without being overrun by 
illegal immigrants and drug runners?
    Where I live in Yuma County, my neighbors and I grow fresh 
produce such as lettuce, spinach, melons, broccoli, and 
cauliflower in season this time of year. And the foods that we 
are growing are mostly eaten raw by people all over the United 
States and Canada. We have nearly 50,000 people working in 
agriculture in my small community, of which over 8,000 workers 
are H2-A workers, over 15,000 are commuter workers who travel 
into the United States daily to work and return to Mexico each 
night, and the rest of our workforce is comprised of citizens, 
naturalized citizens, and permanent residents card holders. Our 
workforce in Yuma County is legal, and we have an abundance of 
legal commerce and activity in my community that is happening 
daily. That is the backdrop to the mess that we observed since 
December 2020. It has really been going on for decades, but it 
has been particularly egregious since around December 2020.
    We have individuals and families numbering in the thousands 
entering our country through areas that are not ports of entry 
on a daily basis. This humanitarian crisis is happening along 
our county roads in rural areas of my county, just like it is 
on the rest of the lands along our southern border. We face 
unique challenges having food crops of the kind that are 
normally eaten raw growing in open fields. We cannot have 
trespassers entering these fields, passing through these 
fields, leaving garbage in these fields, or even worse 
defecating or urinating in or near these fields. These fresh 
produce crops are unharvestable if they are exposed to these 
sorts of risks of contamination from human pathogens, and if 
they are contaminated in any way they are just simply not 
usable. A huge waste of natural resources, energy, and money.
    It has been a very commonplace situation the last few 
years, especially in farmland, about 40,000 acres, that is very 
close to our southern border, and this poses an enormous 
liability risk and financial hardship to farmers and fresh 
produce shippers, and it impacts our domestically grown food 
supply in a big way. Is it too much to ask that the farmers of 
southern Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas be able to 
raise their crops without being overrun by illegal immigrants 
and drug runners? I don't think it is.
    Requiring asylum seekers to seek legal status to immigrate 
at a Consulate of the U.S. State Department and to have robust 
enforcement of our laws at the border would restore safety and 
an environment only conducive to legal commerce in our border 
regions. We have been facing an extraordinary level of illegal 
entries into the United States along our southern border these 
last few years. There were 371,036 encounters dealt with by 
Customs and Border Protection just in December 2023.
    I will close by calling on all of you, the Members of 
Congress here, and your colleagues back in DC, and this 
Administration to act, and act swiftly, to address the crisis 
we have at the border. It is time to act and put forth 
meaningful policies that address the problem and give our 
border communities, law enforcement, and the families that live 
along this border a reprieve. This is not, and should not be, a 
political issue. It is time to put partisan politics aside and 
solve our border crisis. Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Boelts follows:]
    
 Prepared Statement of John Boelts, Vice President, Arizona Farm Bureau

    Good afternoon Chairman Tiffany and Members of the Committee. My 
name is John Boelts, and I am a farmer from Yuma County, Arizona. I 
volunteer as the First Vice President of Arizona Farm Bureau. I come 
before you today to thank you for your attention to our man-made crisis 
at our southern border. Farmers and ranchers in Arizona and neighboring 
states are in many ways on the frontlines of this public policy 
disaster, and I will mention just a few of those ways with my limited 
time.
    Ranchers, their families and employees raising livestock and 
managing public and private lands in the areas near our border with 
Mexico face extraordinary challenges with inadequate support from our 
federal government. The safety of these hardworking people, their 
families and property is in danger most days and nights due to the lack 
of law enforcement by federal agencies responsible for border security 
in these areas. People seeking to enter our country without passing 
through a legal port of entry are breaking federal law. The damage 
these people do to the public and private lands while entering 
unlawfully is unacceptable and the refuse they leave behind is 
remarkable. Is it too much to ask that the Ranchers of Southern 
Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas be able to raise their 
livestock and families without being overrun by illegal immigrants and 
drug runners?
    Where I live and farm in Yuma County, my neighbors and I grow fresh 
produce such as lettuce, spinach, melons, broccoli and cauliflower in 
season which spans from August through July. These foods that we grow 
are mostly eaten raw by people all over the US and Canada. We have 
nearly 50,000 people working in agriculture in my community of which 
over 8,000+ workers are H2-A program workers, over 15,000 are commuter 
workers who travel to the U.S. daily to work and return to Mexico each 
night and the rest of our workforce is comprised of citizens, 
naturalized citizens and permanent residents card holders. Our 
workforce is legal in Yuma County and we have and abundance of legal 
commerce and activity in my community. That is the backdrop to the mess 
we have observed since December 2020.
    We have individuals and families numbering in the thousands 
entering our country through areas that are not ports of entry on a 
daily basis. This humanitarian crisis is happening along county roads 
in rural areas of my county just like it is the rest of the lands along 
our southern border. We face unique challenges having food crops that 
are of the kind that are normally eaten raw growing in open fields. We 
cannot have trespassers entering those fields, passing through these 
fields, leaving garbage in those fields or even worse defecating or 
urinating in those fields. These fresh produce crops are unharvestable 
due to risks of contamination from human pathogens if they are 
contaminated in any way, not to mention the extremely difficult 
humanitarian situations that arise from people living or passing 
through areas without adequate restroom facilities or shelter. These 
sort of situations have become far too common these last few years, and 
pose an enormous liability risk and financial hardship to farmers and 
fresh produce shippers. Is it too much to ask that the farmers of 
southern Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas be able to raise 
their crops and families without being overrun by illegal immigrants 
and drug runners?
    Requiring asylum seekers to seek legal status to immigrate at a 
Consulate of the US State Department and to have robust enforcement of 
our laws at the border would restore safety and an environment only 
conducive to legal commerce in our border regions. We have been facing 
an extraordinary level of illegal entries into the United States along 
our southern border these last few years. It was January, 2021 the last 
time we saw less than 10,000 entries per month on our southern border, 
and in December 2023 there were 371,036 encounters dealt with by 
Customs and Border Protection. The vast majority of these encounters 
were at the southern border of the United States.
    Farmers and farm workers, ranchers and ranch workers and all of our 
families live and work on these lands along our southern border. If you 
had over 300,000 people invading your place of work or your community 
every month you too would feel this crisis. Probably the most 
interesting group to discuss these matters with are first generation 
immigrants like those that work for me on my farm and those who live in 
my community. These people and their families have spent 10s and 
sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars of their own resources to 
legally immigrate into our country. Sometimes that process took a 
decade or more and was a financial challenge for multiple generations. 
These first generation immigrants that I know shake their head in 
disgust at what they see happening today.
    We currently have bad public policy governing legal immigration 
into our country that does not meet our needs. We lack adequate 
resources for true border security. We have bad public policy for 
handling asylum seekers that is creating havoc in our border 
communities and on public and private property. We have had inadequate 
legal pathways for most immigrants who would seek a legal path to 
immigrate into the United States to work in agriculture and many other 
fields of work. These are not new situations necessarily but our lack 
of action to simply and definitively resolve these matters is why I 
refer to these as a man-made crisis. We have the ability to address 
these issues, but we simply choose not to.
    I call on Congress and this administration to act and act swiftly 
to address the crisis we have at the border. It is time to act and put 
forth meaningful policies that address the problem and give our border 
communities and families reprieve. This is not and should not be 
political and it is time to put partisan politics aside and solve our 
border crisis.

                                 ______
                                 

    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mr. Boelts. I would like to 
recognize Mr. James Chilton, a ranch owner from Arivaca, 
Arizona. Mr. Chilton, good to have you back before the 
Committee. You have 5 minutes.

          STATEMENT OF JAMES CHILTON, RANCHER, ARIVACA,
                            ARIZONA

    Mr. Chilton. My name is Jim Chilton. I am a fifth-
generation Arizona rancher from Arivaca, Arizona, a small town 
approximately 55 miles southwest of Tucson. The ranch includes 
private property, State School Trust lands, and Federal grazing 
permits, in the Coronado National Forest. My ancestors drove 
cattle from Texas to Arizona Territory in 1885, and our family 
has been in the ranching business in Arizona for about 139 
years.
    My border concerns are similar to those of most ranchers in 
the Tucson Sector, regardless of whether their ranch is located 
adjacent to the international border or 100 miles inside the 
border.
    The ranch is roughly 50,000 acres, and the image that 
Chairman Tiffany showed of this camp is adjacent to our ranch. 
Our ranch has an exposure of about 14 miles to the 
international boundary, and the wall crept out from the west, 
east, and was stopped by President Biden on his first day in 
office.
    Are we going to show the film? OK. Thank you.
    For about 10 years, I have collected film from hidden 
motion-activated cameras of drug packers, previously deported 
persons, and illegal crossers through our ranch. Of 
approximately 100 trails traversing our ranch we have only five 
cameras, so these video images are a small sample of the 
persons entering through our ranch. Since January 2021, these 
cameras have recorded 3,050 images of unlawful border crossers. 
My testimony today hopefully can be given, on a thumb drive, to 
each Congress Member for the record. It is hard evidence.
    These filmed border crossers, as you can see, are wearing 
camouflage clothes, carpet shoes, and have almost identical 
backpacks. This is in stark contrast to other border crossers 
reported in the news along the international boundary in 
Arizona, California, and Texas, who wear casual street clothes 
and include women and/or children. There are no images on my 
cameras for the last decade of any women with children.
    On the south end of the ranch, which is 5.5 miles of the 
international border, there are now large numbers of people 
coming across who are women and children, and they walk towards 
the ``No More Deaths'' camp that you showed on your opening 
statement.
    Most critically, are any of the 3,050 terrorists? Not 
knowing who is crossing is a national security matter. The 
video documents a fivefold increase compared to what we were 
documenting, on average, during the Trump and Obama years. 
Mexican cartel scouts occupying our mountaintops guide these 
border crossers. During the last 4 months I have not seen a 
single Border Patrol agent patrolling these known border 
entrance trails, since most agents are totally overwhelmed 
processing undocumented migrants.
    Please refer to my testimony for my specific 
recommendations for securing the border at the border. We have 
to secure the border at the border.
    Thank you. I will be happy to answer any questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Chilton follows:]
    
    Prepared Statement of Jim Chilton, Rancher from Arivaca, Arizona

    My name is Jim Chilton. I am a 5th generation rancher from Arivaca, 
Arizona. Arivaca is a small rural town approximately 55 miles southwest 
of Tucson, Arizona. Our ranch is adjacent to the town and extends south 
to the international border with Mexico. The ranch includes private 
property, State School Trust lands and three federal grazing permits in 
the Coronado National Forest. Our entire family, my wife of 60 years, 
are blessed to be able to preserve our western ranching customs, 
culture, and heritage dating back to our pioneering ancestors who drove 
cattle from Texas to Arizona Territory in 1885. Our family has been in 
the cattle business in Arizona for about 139 years. We have a long-term 
view of the necessity to be excellent stewards of the grasslands we 
carefully manage. We are honored to have received various valued awards 
for resource conservation and wildlife stewardship.

Chilton Ranch and the International Border

    Our family ranch is in a corridor identified as among the most 
active for drug smuggling and human trafficking in the Nation. My 
comments generally relate specifically to the portion of the border at 
the southern edge of our ranch extending from Nogales, AZ to Sasabe, 
AZ. However, my border concerns are similar to those of most ranchers 
in the Tucson Sector regardless of whether their ranch is located 
adjacent to the international boundary or one hundred miles from the 
border.
    The following is a map of our beef-producing family ranch. Please 
notice that the southern end of the eastern part of the ranch is the 
international boundary for about five-and-one-half miles. Mexico is 
just across the fence. Our ranch boundary goes north and west bordering 
three other ranches. Border crossers on the western side of the ranch 
go through our neighbors' grazing lands and then through our Federal 
land pastures.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


    Chilton Ranch boundaries--South of Arivaca, Arizona and west of 
Nogales. Five-and-one half miles of the southern end of the ranch is 
the United States/Mexico international border. The 50,000-acre ranch, 
like many western ranches, is composed of U.S. Forest Service grazing 
allotments, State Trust and private land. The blue line is the 
international border with Mexico and the red line is the Ruby Road that 
runs through much of the ranch.

International Border Crossers on Chilton Ranch

    For about ten years, my wife Sue and I and my friends at Secure 
Border Intel have collected motion activated camera film of drug 
packers, previously deported persons, criminals and other illegals 
crossing through our ranch. Of approximately 100 trails traversing our 
ranch, only five have hidden motion-activated cameras. As a 
consequence, our video images of crossers represent a small sample of 
the probable border crossers trespassing through our ranch.
    Since January 2021, these cameras on our ranch have recorded 
evidence of 3,050 images of unlawful border crossers. Importantly, my 
Testimony today includes a computer thumb drive of the 3,050 
photographed crossers (the actual film footage can also be googled at: 
https://youtu.be/j2pzKHRwmeY?feature=shared ).
    On their way north through our southern pastures, illegal border 
crossers are wearing camouflaged clothes, carpet shoes and often 
identical backpacks. Almost all are men, in stark contrast to other 
border crossers along the international boundary in Texas, who wear 
casual street clothes and include women and/or children. There have 
never been any women with small children observed on our motion 
activated cameras during the last decade. Approximately only two 
percent--of these 3,050 intruders--do appear to be women. Why would a 
woman hike twenty to or more miles over this rugged mountainous terrain 
when other women just walk across the border and look for immediate 
apprehension, expecting to be released into the interior of the nation 
with a court date five or more years in the future? Are they being 
trafficked in the sex trade? Were they previously deported for an 
adjudicated violation of our laws?
    Who are the 3,050 individuals and why are they being allowed to 
successfully sneak into our nation over rugged mountains and rough 
terrain? One Border Patrol intelligence officer estimates 20% of these 
crossers are drug packers while other knowledgeable individuals claim 
the percentage of drug packers on our video evidence is likely 
significantly greater than 20%. Most critically, are any of the 3,050 
trespassers TERRORISTS entering our country to do Americans harm? 
Securing the border at the border and vetting potential entrants is, in 
fact, a national security issue. There are reports that over one 
hundred seventy different countries' inhabitants have crossed into the 
United States during the Biden years including Chinese, Russians, 
Iranians and persons from middle eastern countries.
    The aforementioned video documents approximately a five-fold 
increase compared with what we were documenting during the Trump and 
Obama years in the number of totally unknown international entrants 
seeking to evade detection and interdiction by choosing this route.
    During the last four months, as I was out on our place working, 
checking cattle, waters and fences, I have not seen a single Border 
Patrol agent patrolling these known border entrance trails on our ranch 
since most agents are reassigned to immigrant-flooded and totally 
overwhelmed locations. There, out of view of these drug routes on our 
ranch, they struggle with the impossible requirement to deal with 
economic asylum seekers whom they are mandated to release into the 
nation under the catch and release policy. Since this is a rugged, 
between-ports-of-entry route, it is highly probable that border 
crossers choosing this rough, mountainous route are exceptionally 
motivated to evade detection and know they are ineligible for asylum 
status.

Mexican Cartel Scouts

    What is most outrageous to me, is that Mexican Cartel scouts, 
occupying our ranch mountain tops on US soil, guide these border 
crossers. The scouts communicate with cartel operatives through 
encrypted satellite phones with radio function. Scouts are also 
equipped with the finest binoculars, night vision and backpack roll-
down solar panels. Their purpose is to know where the Border Patrol is 
at all times and guide the Cartel drug packers or persons ineligible 
for asylum to sites where Cartel operatives inside the United States 
can pick up and then distribute the drugs and people throughout the 
Nation.

Drugs Crisis

    From my perspective, it is impossible to separate the drug crisis 
from the immigration issue. Some border crossers are repeat 
professionals who work for the Cartels and walk back to Mexico after 
each fentanyl, heroin, methamphetamine or cocaine delivery. In 
addition, the Cartel forces other undocumented persons to pay to 
traverse the international boundary either in cash or at a discounted 
rate if they pack drugs. Those crossing in this area are reportedly 
charged about $3,000 if Mexican, $7,000 to $10,000 when from South 
America or $25,000 to $75,000 for Asians. Some groups, after paying the 
Cartel to cross, are unaware that they are being used as decoys and led 
into probable detection to distract the Border Patrol while the Cartel 
is running drugs into the United States five to ten miles away.
    Government reports indicate a massive increase in fentanyl traffic 
through the Arizona border. The precursors of this drug arrive from 
China, are off-loaded at Mexican seaports to be processed in Mexican 
labs, packaged and hidden for transport. This is chemical warfare. Many 
Border Patrol officers who were formerly trying to put a dent in this 
border disaster, have been dispatched to help handle the diversionary 
tactic of floods of undocumented immigrants crossing the border in 
other Tucson Sector locations and the Rio Grande River in Texas. This 
tactic clearly opens the between-ports rural ranching trails with 
unfinished border wall openings to nearly unimpeded passage. President 
Biden has signed a bill to hire 87,000 new IRS agents to ``patrol'' 
Americans and zero new agents to patrol illegal immigration and drug 
packing.

Need to complete the Wall

    On our ranch, five miles of the Trump wall were well-started, but 
still under construction, when President Biden was inaugurated on 
January 20, 2021. One of President Biden's first executive orders was 
to stop all construction on border security structures. At the end of 
the Wall on our ranch, there is a four-strand barbed wire cattle fence 
for over five more miles leaving a ``convenient'' gap of no wall at all 
along the international boundary right in a favored entry point for the 
Cartels. In addition, five additional large gaps, where gates were 
designed to be installed across water gaps and international Boundary 
markers, were left unfenced because of Biden's executive order.
    This section of Arizona, including our ranch border, was just 
described by a Trump-era highly informed, highly placed Border Patrol 
spokesman as leading the entire border in ``got-aways''--crossers who 
are not apprehended. In my opinion, President Biden must finish the 
wall, including all of the planned fiber optic cable, electronics, 
sensors and cameras. Then, ports of entry on the Mexican border need to 
be staffed and equipped to interdict the flood of drugs over-whelming 
these ports. The recent ``mobbing-Texas tactic'' and now the ``mobbing 
strategically-selected California and Arizona entrance points tactic'' 
guaranteed that between-port ranches and farms along the entire 
international boundary were likely to remain under Cartel control and 
undefended from Cartel operations.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


    Jim Chilton and cousin Jerry Chilton at the end of Trump wall 
on our ranch. Large gaps were unfinished and fiber optic cable, 
electronics, sensors and cameras were not installed when the wall 
construction ``stop order'' was given.

Border Crosser Human Tragedies

    There are intolerable human tragedies and abuses faced by border 
crossers, especially women. Crossers currently have no feasible option 
but to cross in the hands of the Cartel. It is reported by Alvaro 
Enciso, a Tucson citizen who puts crosses out to mark death sites, that 
about 4,100 border crossers have died just in Southern Arizona since 
1990. Huge numbers of near-death experiences are common along with 
innumerable serious injuries. Women are often abused and raped. The 
Border Patrol, which is a first-class search and rescue team, together 
with humanitarian organizations spend much of their time saving mostly 
lost and abandoned would-be crossers in distress. These human tragedies 
could be avoided by securing the border at the border.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


    Trump wall construction was halted by President Biden on 
January 20, 2021, leaving large gaps in the wall where numerous washes 
cross the International Boundary. Five border gaps on the Chilton Ranch 
are open doors for Cartel border crossers.

Need to Secure the Border at the Border

    There are tremendous advantages to finishing construction of the 
Wall and closing the gaps in the Wall between Yuma, Arizona and New 
Mexico. To achieve border control, and ensure that rural Arizona is not 
the ``sacrificed route,'' effective structures and strategies must also 
be implemented all the way across Arizona's borderlands. Most 
importantly, a completed Wall must be conscientiously patrolled 24/7 
and must include surveillance technology. Congress needs to require the 
Wall to be completed together with the appropriation of the necessary 
funds.

Border Patrol

    We want to emphasize that we support and deeply appreciate the 
Border Patrol. The agents are polite, well trained and there is a 
sincere effort by top officials in the Tucson and Nogales Stations to 
listen to and try to address ranchers' border issues in our area. We, 
however are incredibly concerned that due to the massive invasion of 
economic asylum seekers, Border Patrol checkpoints along Arivaca Road, 
Sasabe Road and along other roads heavily used by drug packers have 
been closed for months and there is absolutely minimal presence of 
agents along the border since agents are focused on processing border 
crossers. I am concerned that drugs are flowing into the interior of 
our Nation without an attempt to impede vehicles from transporting 
drugs across our country from known crossing points.

Recommended Border Action

    As a sovereign nation, the United States should have complete 
control of its borders and therefore only accept legal immigration. In 
my opinion, the following actions need to be considered:

  1.  Complete the construction of the Wall, including all of the 
            planned fiber optic cable, electronics, cameras, and 
            sensors that alert Border Patrol to approaching persons in 
            time to interdict them.

  2.  Hire and train enough Border Patrol Agents to secure the border 
            at the border, together with, if necessary, national guard 
            and military assistance and back-up.

  3.  Require the Border Patrol to have complete presence at the Wall, 
            24/7, to arrest any person attempting to get over, under, 
            or through the Wall.

  4.  Immediately deport apprehended arrested illegal intruders.

  5.  Retain sufficient welders and other maintenance personnel 24/7 to 
            immediately repair any successful breaches or cuts in the 
            wall.

  6.  Ports of entry on the Mexican border need to be staffed and fully 
            equipped to prevent, to the degree possible, drugs and 
            undocumented individuals from entering our country.

  7.  Require true asylum claim seekers to be processed at United 
            States embassies, consulates or other government properties 
            in foreign nations utilizing the internet backup personnel 
            in the United States to assist in the processing.

  8.  Persons seeking economic opportunity do not qualify under the 
            asylum category and need to return to their countries and 
            submit an application for legal admittance.

  9.  As we understand the measure on border security currently being 
            considered in the U.S. Congress, it permits the flood of 
            economic opportunity claimants for asylum/admission to the 
            U.S. to continue virtually unabated. We need to stop this 
            end run around the legal immigration procedures and 
            limitations.

 10.  Double or triple the current number of legal immigrants permitted 
            to gain qualified entrance into our nation with effective 
            vetting following the legally prescribed procedures. We 
            welcome LEGAL immigrants in a number that can be 
            assimilated and can contribute their future to this nation; 
            we oppose flooding the United States with completely 
            unvetted persons.

Advantages of Securing the Border at the Border

    The following are some of the advantages to completing the wall 
together with effective border patrolling and appropriate technology:

    First, multiple reports state hundreds of people crossing the open 
border sections of our Nation have been on the terrorist watch list. 
How many border crossers from terrorist nations including Russia, 
China, ISIS, Iran and other parts of the world have successfully 
entered our country through routes like those on our ranch without 
Homeland Security's knowledge. Where are they, what are their plans and 
when and where will they strike? It took only 19 terrorists to demolish 
the World Trade Center, and murder citizens and first-responders in New 
York and attack the Pentagon and people working there.

    Second, it is outrageous that Mexican Cartel scouts with satellite 
phones and other military-grade equipment are free to occupy 
strategically-selected hilltops for dozens of miles inside Arizona 
including on our ranch. The cartel scouts know where the Border Patrol 
is at all times so they can carefully guide drug packers, and people 
whom they know are not eligible for asylum, through the steep wooded 
canyons and along approximately one hundred smuggler trails on our 
ranch. Border Patrol officers report that only 20% of the illegal 
crossers on our ranch are apprehended while others argue that arrests 
are fewer than 20%. Securing the border at the border would stop the 
occupation of Arizona border ranchlands by these foreign cartel 
operatives and their clients.

    Third, environmental costs of the current failure to effectively 
stop the flood of crossers are well-documented. Much of the border area 
includes national forests, conservation areas, national monuments, 
Indian reservations and wildernesses. These designated areas are open 
routes most used by the cartel-led operations because they are the 
least accessible to Border Patrol surveillance. The Border Patrol 
reported at a meeting we attended that undocumented crossers have left 
a reported average of 8.5 pounds of trash apiece on these lands. It is 
estimated that over 25,000 tons of garbage have been dropped by 
crossers in the Tucson Sector alone since 1992. Additionally, thousands 
of miles of wildcat roads and trails have had severe adverse 
environmental impacts.

    Fourth, we have been burglarized twice by south-bound drug packers 
who, after depositing their drug load at GPS sites or safe houses, 
stole laptops, cameras, firearms, including historic pieces, and other 
valuable items they steal to carry on their return to Mexico. This is a 
typical situation for those of us near the border all across the Tucson 
Sector. Ranchers in the border area cannot leave their homes unguarded 
even for a few hours since their homes and ranch buildings are often 
broken into if someone is not on guard duty. It can be hours before law 
enforcement can respond to rural calls.

    Fifth, Arizona borderland residents, ranchers and farmers as well 
as national conservation areas have suffered hundreds of millions of 
dollars in property damage due to major forest fires set intentionally 
as decoy operations or accidentally by illegal crossers. The human and 
property costs of these fires, like the Monument Fire, the Murphy 
Complex Fire, Chiricahua Fire and the Horseshoe Fires and many other 
fires, must also be figured into the cost of NOT securing the border at 
the border. We have estimated that U.S. Forest Service costs in one 
year to fight fires caused by border crossers just in Arizona 
borderlands were about $600 million. We understand that illegal 
crosser-caused Forest Service fires are accounted for on the Forest 
Service books rather than more accurately charged to Homeland Security. 
The actual cost of fighting crosser-caused forest fires is hidden from 
the public.

    Sixth, we are subjected to anti-ranching activist claims of over-
grazing resulting from the constant entrance of Mexican cattle through 
the breached border. In order to try to reduce these devastating 
impacts on my grazing program, I personally added barbed wire to the 
Normandy barriers which were installed to reduce Cartel-managed vehicle 
access where the Wall had been left unfinished, and cattle, as well as 
Cartel ``clients'' were coming in (then that was cut and in came the 
Mexican cattle), then I welded on reinforcing rod across major entrance 
points (that was bent back and the crossers and the Mexican cattle came 
right through), and finally, I spent a lot of money on inch-and-a-
quarter PIPE and took a skilled welder to one of these entrance points 
where we worked all day welding pipe onto the Normandy barriers. So 
far, this last step is still in place and is now limiting cattle 
intrusion.
    The emotional cost to our families is summarized by noting we are 
all very much aware of what happened to rancher Larry Link the day 
after he reported a load of drugs on his ranch and was then murdered 
and to Sue Krentz's husband Rob when he went out to check his ranch 
waters and was killed (including his dog) by an illegal who then 
escaped into Mexico. Recently, myself and others in our area have been 
called and told NOT to go to our border pastures because competing 
factions of drug cartels were, at that point, conducting armed warfare 
ON U.S. PROPERTY on this side or just south of the border over control 
of these valuable unsurveilled drug trails.

    Seventh, opponents of effective border control in rural areas 
advocate prioritizing cross-border wildlife-roaming over interdiction 
of cartel operatives. We disagree. The route through our portion of 
southern Arizona, the drug traffic and the passage of potential 
terrorists makes this today's Ho Chi Minh Trail .

    Eighth, wildlife genetic diversity on both sides of the border can 
be achieved along with border security by legally transporting animals 
as scientifically deemed appropriate. Large mammals can be transported 
with safe capture across the border to promote genetic diversity while 
birds can fly over and small animals and reptiles can easily slip 
through the bollard-style wall. In addition, American engineers can 
create wildlife friendly, effectively managed passages at some parts of 
the wall to facilitate wildlife connectivity with Mexico. The 
``wildlife'' currently facilitated by these unguarded portions of the 
border has two legs and is headquartered in Sinaloa, Mexico.

                                 ______
                                 

    Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Chilton, thank you for your testimony. And 
now Members of the dais, we are going to take 5 minutes for 
each of you for questioning, and I am going to start out, and I 
am going to start out with you, Mr. Chilton.
    We talked about the environmental degradation, the garbage, 
the pollution that is out there on lands here, including 
Federal lands, in southern Arizona. Is that accurate that this 
problem has been getting worse?
    Mr. Chilton. It has been getting worse. It is an 
environmental degradation. Witness Del Cueto stated that there 
have been millions of people apprehended. Bottom line, if you 
have 3 million people coming across the border at 8.5 pounds of 
garbage apiece, that is 12,500 tons of trash. I get very tired 
of riding through my ranch and seeing and observing trash left 
by these crossers.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, you have seen a massive increase over the 
last couple of decades. Is that correct?
    Mr. Chilton. That is correct.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you very much.
    Mayor, I want to turn to you. You mentioned about social 
media, about how they use that to be able to facilitate these 
illegal crossings. We have a Federal law that prevents someone 
from breaking the law. So, in other words, let's say you took 
out an ad in a newspaper and you said, ``Hey, drive your car 
down to the southern border and you can pick up a bunch of 
people that are hauling fentanyl.'' That would be illegal under 
Federal law. Do you think that law should be enforced in regard 
to the social media companies?
    Mr. McCaa. Chairman Tiffany, yes, sir, I definitely do, and 
the Sheriff can talk for days on this one. That is how these 
load car drivers get their marching orders. They get a text, 
they get a phone call, meet here, the car is stationed probably 
at Walmart or Target, keys are on the tire. Pick up the car, 
drive south, pick up the load, and drive north.
    Mr. Tiffany. Yes. So, we had a Vice President from 
Microsoft say that, I believe it was one of the social media 
companies that said that, yes, our platform gets used to be 
able to facilitate these illegal crossings. I think it is about 
time that the social media companies, who are quick to censor 
some people, that they do their job to prevent these illegal 
transactions from going on.
    Sheriff Dannels, I want to talk about fentanyl for just a 
second. What is the most significant action that happened over 
the last few years that has led to increased fentanyl coming 
into the United States of America?
    Sheriff Dannels. Well, Mr. Chairman, let me just say this. 
The biggest thing is when we defer our Border Patrol, who are 
the frontline agents on the line, and put them in processing 
and other duties assigned you shut down the checkpoints, you 
shut down a lot of your aerostats along the border. Long story, 
I call it the ``infrastructure fracture'' when it comes to CBP. 
You have opened up the border, and the more agents you take off 
the border, the more opportunities. The cartels are the true 
winners in this, and they are exploiting our borders with that 
knowledge.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, in other words, Sheriff, on January 20, 
2021, when President Biden, in effect, declared open borders, 
that is largely what precipitated this massive increase of 
fentanyl coming into our country. Is that right?
    Sheriff Dannels. Yes, I would agree.
    Mr. Tiffany. Yes, and I stopped today at a Border Patrol 
checkpoint. It has not been manned for a long time, and it is 
not the fault of the Border Patrol. It is because they are 
being babysitters at this point. It is terribly unfortunate.
    And by the way, I asked Secretary Mayorkas in a hearing, I 
sit on the Judiciary Committee. Sheriff Dannels was there, in 
Washington, DC. He cited the same exact testimony. It has not 
changed in the three times I have asked Sheriff Dannels this 
question. And I asked, ``Who is not telling the truth?'' 
because Secretary Mayorkas said to us, ``No, the actions of 
January 20, 2021, are not the reason why fentanyl has increased 
the way it has.'' I said, ``Who is lying, the Sheriff or you?'' 
Of course, he would not go after Sheriff Dannels because he is 
above repute amongst not just local citizens here in Arizona 
but amongst the people of the United States who have worked 
with him. Secretary Mayorkas was not telling us the truth.
    The final thing I would say in my closing couple of seconds 
is I really appreciate the testimony of Mr. Del Cueto, and I 
understand the position that the Border Patrol took in regard 
to the bill that was released by the Senate. But I would just 
point out a couple of things to you in regard to the Senate 
bill.
    The President can declare an emergency under that bill at 
any time and have open borders. Do you think for a second the 
current President would not declare an emergency and allow open 
borders to happen?
    Furthermore, one of the lead authors said over the past 
weekend, ``Under that bill the border never closes,'' and went 
on to say, just today, that our priority is not American 
citizens. It is the people who are here illegally.
    I now recognize the Chairman, Mr. Westerman, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Westerman. Thank you, Chairman Tiffany, and thank you 
again to the witnesses for being here. I have read all of your 
testimonies and I appreciate the time and the effort that you 
put into it and the information that we were able to get from 
your testimonies.
    Sheriff Dannels, we received a briefing from you this 
morning, and in your testimony you talked about the $9.4 
million. But you had another stat that you didn't say today but 
you said this morning that wasn't in your testimony about 
nationwide, I believe you said a half a billion dollars of 
costs have been incurred by local law enforcement because of 
the failure to secure the border. Could you elaborate on that?
    Sheriff Dannels. I can. It is called SCAAP, sir, State 
Criminal Alien Assistance Program, which is money allocated by 
the Federal Government, you all, Congress, that is to help 
local and state jurisdictions offset costs for those that are 
incarcerated that are illegally in the country. Since 2009, the 
15 Arizona sheriffs are owed over half a billion dollars by you 
all, and we would like to have our money. We get about 5 cents 
to the dollar on SCAAP right now, which has been ineffective to 
house, especially in a crisis over the last 3 years.
    Thanks to the state of Arizona and the two governors I 
mentioned, Governor Ducey and Governor Hobbs, and the money we 
have set aside for our programs, they are helping us offset 
those costs that otherwise my citizens there in Cochise County 
would have absorbed.
    Mr. Westerman. Mr. Del Cueto, as I mentioned, it has been a 
few years back since I made my first trip to the Arizona 
border. We spent a lot of time out on the ground. I saw the 
piles of trash, the camouflage clothes, the carpet-covered 
shoes, the backpacks, the water bottles, all the trash that was 
discarded. And I saw firsthand how the people coming across the 
border were avoiding Customs and Border Patrol, that they had 
lookouts in the mountains radioing down. I visited many other 
places along the border. In Texas, it is a whole different 
story. You see people in plain clothes walking up, and it is 
almost like they finished the marathon when they see the Border 
Patrol agent. That is who they are looking for. They want to 
turn themselves in and claim asylum.
    So, with everything that has happened with the mass numbers 
in Texas, it appears that is where all the crossings are 
happening, but on our visit this morning your colleague told us 
that in 2020 there were 60,000 apprehensions in the Tucson 
Sector. Today, there are 10 times more than that. I was shocked 
to learn that, even with more wall being built, more access 
along the border, and these are people that are trying to avoid 
getting caught that come across this sector.
    What do you think has caused the increase here, and why is 
that not being focused on more than the masses that are 
crossing in Texas? It is a tragedy everywhere it is happening.
    Mr. Del Cueto. It is the lack of consequences from this 
Administration. They realize that if they cross they just have 
to claim asylum and they get released. So, what has been 
happening in Arizona is you are still having the large groups 
that are coming through here, and they are in more remote 
areas. So, the drive from when agents arrest these individuals 
to an area of processing is sometimes well over 1 or 2 hours 
away, and I think that is some of the issue. So, that is 2 
hours where the agent is now away from the line that allows the 
drug smugglers to start bringing their drugs and everything 
else into the country.
    Now, realistically, you are seeing a lot more focus in 
Texas because the governor in Texas has done a fantastic job of 
allowing the media and having other law enforcement in those 
areas that are able to talk about it and see what the problem 
is. Out here in Arizona, it has been a little bit harder for 
individuals to see what is happening. And I can tell you 
specifically, I think it is approximately right over 60 linear 
miles with Mexico, and it is very limited access to media or 
anyone else to go out there.
    As an example, when you are seeing the mass groups that 
were coming in, in Texas or in areas of Lukeville at the same 
time, that area, particularly an area called the San Miguel 
gate, was experiencing over 1,000 individuals that were 
entering every single morning, and all they had in that area 
were two agents to watch over 1,000 people.
    Mr. Westerman. Thank you. Mayor, I was shocked in your 
testimony, you are the Mayor, you grew up here, and you have 
actually advised your family to stay off the main 
thoroughfares. We are almost out of time but I can only imagine 
what it is like if you used to recreate on the Federal lands 
here how much of a discouragement it would be to use the public 
lands. And to our ranchers and farmers, thank you for what you 
do. Much of what our Committee works on deals with rural 
America.
    I will leave with you a quote by a famous writer named Aldo 
Leopold. He said, ``There are two great spiritual dangers of 
not living on a farm. The first is when you think food comes 
from the grocery, and the second is when you think heat comes 
from the furnace.'' I know it is hard to get young people to go 
into farming today and into ranching, and it makes it 
exponentially more difficult when you are in an area dealing 
with the things you are dealing with, with the border crisis. 
So, thank you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Tiffany. The gentleman yields.
    I want to correct one statement. Earlier I attributed a 
quote which was to Senator Murphy, who is one of the authors of 
the Senate bill, and I want to be precise in what he said. He 
said, ``Our strategy has failed to deliver for the people we 
care about most, the undocumented Americans that are in this 
country.''
    Now I would like to recognize Mr. Curtis for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Curtis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I have reflected, 
waiting for my turn, I don't want to be too dramatic, but this 
just may be the most important hearing that I have attended in 
my 7 years in Congress. If you think about 100,000 lives lost 
to fentanyl, if you think about the many impacts that we have 
talked about today, this is incredibly important, and I hope 
the American people are watching.
    This is my third trip to the border in several years. I 
have been under President Trump's administration and President 
Biden's administration, and I came today with the specific 
purpose to learn about the control of the border. And what I 
learned is that the border is controlled, not by the U.S. 
Government but by the cartels. They control who comes, they 
control when they come, and where they come into the United 
States. I thought that was our job in the United States. They 
even control if they come. I was shocked to learn that if those 
who want to cross the border are not willing to pay the 
thousands and thousands of dollars that they could be shot by 
the cartel coming across the border.
    Every fact here points to the complete failure of President 
Biden and his policies, or perhaps a better way to describe it 
is lack of policies.
    As just one example, as we arrived at the border today we 
were greeted by a wall, almost as far as the eye could see. 
Imagine my surprise to learn that that was President Obama's 
wall, the 20-foot wall. Towards the end of the wall you could 
see where it climbed to 30 feet, President Trump's wall, and 
then, symbolically after that, no wall, representing no 
policies, no effort, no ability to deal with what is happening 
here. And, of course, the piles and piles and piles of 
unconstructed wall laid on the ground next to the wall.
    Sheriff, it was quoted earlier, but I want to restate this 
because all of us were impacted by this. You said, ``We are not 
dealing with an immigration issue. We are dealing with an 
organized crime issue.'' Could you explain that a little bit so 
that everybody else can understand what you meant by that?
    Sheriff Dannels. Well, Congressman, we are dealing with an 
issue where the border, our southern border and northern 
border, let's not be absent to that, is controlled, ingress and 
egress, by these criminal cartels for violence, fear, and 
greed. There is just no other way around it. CBP knows it. 
Locals know it. Law enforcement knows it. We see it every day. 
And I talk to my fellow sheriffs, the crime, the tragedies that 
they are bringing to our country, not just the borders; this is 
America's problem, the criminal cartels, these organized 
transnational organizations are destroying our country, one 
pill at a time, one entry at a time.
    Mr. Curtis. We talked about the millions of crossings. Is 
it fair to say that at the low numbers people are paying 
$5,000, $6,000 per crossing?
    Sheriff Dannels. That is correct, Congressman.
    Mr. Curtis. And those are the low numbers.
    Sheriff Dannels. The higher countries of interest, the 
higher the price. We have seen it all the way up to $21,000 and 
plus.
    Mr. Curtis. Thank you. Mr. Del Cueto, tell me why Utahns 
should care about what is happening here. We live a long way 
away from this, but could you help Utahns understand why this 
impacts them and how this impacts them?
    Mr. Del Cueto. Because the drug cartels are not just 
operating here. They are not just making their money off of 
what they sell on our southern border or in border states. They 
are making their money off of what they sell throughout the 
entire country. And when you are looking at what is being 
apprehended or where these individuals are being apprehended, 
it is known that the drug cartels operate in over 160 different 
countries worldwide. And because of that, they are going to 
continue to operate in different states within the United 
States, including Utah.
    Mr. Curtis. Yes, that has been a fact. Our fentanyl deaths 
in our state have increased dramatically in correspondence with 
the numbers coming across the border.
    Mayor, I was the mayor of Provo, Utah, for 8 years, and 
listen, I think anybody that is a mayor walks on water, and I 
appreciate that.
    Mr. McCaa. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Curtis. I can't imagine financially how you budget for 
the impact of this. Do you have any sense how this impacts your 
budget?
    Mr. McCaa. Sir, my police chief, the deputy chief is here. 
When we have load cars that come through town we have 66 sworn, 
but all those 66 sworn are sectioned out when we have a load 
car come through town, because we don't know when they are 
coming, where they are coming. The Sheriff and the deputies do 
an amazing job of trying to keep the load cars out of town, but 
some come through town and we have to man all posts because we 
have a lot of intersections, we have a lot of families.
    As a matter of fact, one load car came down to our high 
school, which we had to lock down the high school, lock down 
the schools, so that takes away our resources.
    Mr. Curtis. And we are out of time, but I can't even 
imagine. That is one aspect of it. Health care, every aspect of 
this has to impact your budget.
    Mr. McCaa. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Curtis. Let me just say quickly, I have introduced 
recently into the House a bill that would actually reimburse 
states who send law enforcement help to Texas, and we hear you 
loud and clear that you can't afford this, and I certainly, 
with my colleagues, will look for ways to get you help.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield my time.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you for your questions, Mr. Curtis. Now 
I would like to recognize the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr. 
Stauber, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Stauber. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for holding 
this important hearing, and Representative Ciscomani, thanks 
for having us down here. Your staff is doing a great job.
    We talk about the southern border. What is happening at the 
southern border also affects the northern border. I represent 
northeastern Minnesota, so if you are looking at a map, the 
farthest right, eastern part of Minnesota, almost to that 
little notch and beyond. And that is the Grand Forks Sector, 
and you know that, Mr. Del Cueto. There are two agents on duty 
tonight, two, in over 500 miles. Do you know why? Because they 
are down here processing, or they are in their offices 
processing for what is happening down here.
    So, we have two borders, folks. And this is my third time, 
as well, coming down here, and I will just share with you a 
terrorist on the watch list got through the border of 
California, ended up in Minnesota, was there for almost a year 
before we realized that he was on the terror watch list, and 
took him into custody. But in that 8 or 9 months it is alleged 
he was involved in arms sales. And then when you talk about the 
1.7 million got-aways, 1.7 million got-aways, I want to remind 
the people that it took 19 terrorists to do that bastardly 
attack, 9/11. So, we don't know who they are, where they went, 
and what their intentions are, and that doesn't count the 
85,000 children, we don't know where they are.
    And to the men and women in law enforcement who are wearing 
the uniform today, and in plain clothes, we thank you from the 
bottom of our hearts for what you are doing. As one of only a 
few Members in Congress that has ever worn the uniform, I have 
a good idea what you are going through. And Sheriff, when your 
folks are chasing, that is the most dangerous thing they can 
do, but the men and women put their lives on the line for the 
safety of us.
    Representative Fischbach, myself, and others from the 
Minnesota Delegation, we sent a letter to Secretary Mayorkas, 
asking how did that terrorist get into the state of Minnesota. 
And Mr. Chair, I want to put that in the record, if I may.
    Mr. Tiffany. Without objection.

    [The information follows:]

                     Congress of the United States

                             Washington, DC

                                               February 2, 2024    

Hon. Alejandro Mayorkas, Secretary
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
300 7th St SW
Washington, DC 20024

    Dear Secretary Mayorkas:

    We are writing to you with extreme concern about an internal 
federal memorandum, obtained by the Daily Caller, which revealed that 
an Al-Shabaab terrorist entered the United States illegally and lived 
freely in Minnesota for nearly a year until he was recently arrested on 
January 20, 2024. Secretary Mayorkas, your southern border policies, 
which encourage the free entry of military-aged, foreign national men, 
are directly endangering Minnesotans and all Americans.

    While this unnamed terro1ist was apprehended in January 2024, he 
had been in the country since March 13, 2023, after illegally crossing 
the southern border in San Ysidro, California. When apprehended at the 
border, the Terrorist Screening Center determined that the screening 
results concluded this individual was misidentified as an affiliate of 
Al-Shabaab and he was subsequently released. On January 18, 2024, the 
Terrorist Screening Center corrected its mistake and redetermined that 
the individual is a confirmed member of Al-Shabaab. Throughout the ten 
months this terrorist was loose in the United States, reports state 
that he was involved in arms trafficking.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Taer, J. (2024, January 29). Exclusive: Terrorist caught 
illegally crossing the border was allowed to roam free for nearly a 
year, Memo says. The Daily Caller. https://dailycaller.com/2024/01/29/
exclusive-terrorist-caught-illegally-crossing-border-allowed-roam-free-
nearly-year-memo-says/

    It is unacceptable that the Department of Homeland Security wrongly 
allowed this terrorist into our country through the southern border 
after identification concluded he was on the terrorist watch list. 
Sadly, this is just one example of the Biden Administration's policies 
that have led to this crisis. Since President Biden took office, 361 
individuals on the terrorist watchlist have been encountered at the 
country's border.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ U.S. Customs and Border Protection.(2024, January 26) CBP 
Enforcement Statistics. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-
enforcement-statistics

    However, these statistics are only from individuals who were 
screened at the border and do not account for all the illegal 
immigrants who were not. Since the Biden Administration took office, 
there have been 1.7 million individuals who evaded apprehension and 
entered our country, their affiliations unknown.\3\ Bad actors are 
exposing vulnerabilities in national security policies created by the 
Biden Administration and our constituents, as well as everyday 
Americans, have to pay the price.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Border Sector Chiefs confirm operational impacts of Border 
Chaos: Increased Gotaways, closed checkpoints, and empowered cartels. 
Committee on Homeland Security. (2023, December 20). https://
homeland.house.gov/2023/12/20/border-sector-chiefs-confirm-operational-
impacts-of-border-chaos-increased-gotaways-closed-checkpoints-and-
empowered

    Given the news of the apprehension of the Al-Shabaab terrorist in 
Minnesota, we respectfully request the answers to the following 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
questions:


  1.  To provide transparency, will the Department of Homeland Security 
            release the internal federal memorandum that the Daily 
            Caller obtained to Congress?

  2.  What factors led the Terrorist Screening Center to conclude the 
            individual was misidentified as an Al-Shabaab terrorist at 
            the southern border and justified his release?

  3.  What factors led the Terrorist Screening Center to determine that 
            their initial assessment at the border was incorrect and a 
            reassessment was needed?

  4.  Does the Department of Homeland Security have any information of 
            what the Al-Shabaab terrorist was doing in the United 
            States, including his activities in the State of Minnesota 
            or his involvement in arms trafficking, between entering 
            the country in March 2023 and his arrest in January 2024?

  5.  Are you willing to provide a briefing, either classified or 
            unclassified, to the Minnesota congressional delegation 
            about the events surrounding the arrest of the Al-Shabaab 
            terrorist?

  6.  What steps is the Department of Homeland Security taking to 
            prohibit this from occurring again and to ensure terrorists 
            are detained at the border?

    Again, we are extremely troubled by the recent news of the known 
Al-Shabaab terrorist being in the country for almost a year. We thank 
you for your prompt consideration of our questions to provide 
transparency to our constituents and the American people.

            Sincerely,

        Tom Emmer                     Brad Finstad
        Member of Congress            Member of Congress

        Michelle Fischbach            Pete Stauber
        Member of Congress            Member of Congress

                                 ______
                                 

    Mr. Stauber. Sheriff Dannels, first off, this is the first 
time you and I met.
    Sheriff Dannels. Correct.
    Mr. Stauber. You are impressive.
    Sheriff Dannels. Thank you.
    Mr. Stauber. Your service, your get-it-done attitude, and 
your truthfulness, and I am appalled that as a leader, a law 
enforcement leader, in this county that you have not received a 
response from our President, from the National Sheriffs' 
Association, to meet with him. That is appalling.
    Sheriff Dannels. It is.
    Mr. Stauber. Sheriff Dannels, can you elaborate on any 
instances of red tape, whether it be permitting challenges or 
otherwise, that is holding back your department from taking 
necessary action or making necessary investments to better 
respond to this border crisis?
    Sheriff Dannels. Yes, and thank you for the fine comments. 
Thank you. I am humbled.
    Let me say this. We have presented a 16-point action plan 
to Secretary Mayorkas. I actually hand-carried that to him, 
accompanied by about 10 other sheriffs. Four months later, I 
asked him where we were at with that 16-point action plan, 
which was put together by the nation's sheriffs around the 
country. He stated to me, ``Did you give me something, 
Sheriff?'' We have never heard back since. We have sent a 
minimum of four letters to the White House to meet President 
Biden on behalf of the four major county sheriffs' 
associations, with no response. And that has been reconfirmed 
over and over, to meet with us. This is the first President in 
modern-day history not to meet with one sheriff in this 
country, and we call that insulting.
    The other thing that is really hurting us is a failure to 
prioritize our southern border by this Administration, the 
failure to follow the rule of law, the failure to have judicial 
oversight, and most important is the failure to have our CBP 
agents working alongside us because they have been redeployed 
for other administrative duties. We need our agents back and 
our officers back from the Federal Government, and to be 
allowed to do their job.
    Mr. Stauber. Totally agreed.
    Mr. Boelts, Mr. Chilton, thanks for your testimony. I only 
have 20 seconds left. Mr. Chilton, with the number of people 
crossing your lands and wreaking havoc on your crops and the 
garbage, what does it cost you personally?
    Mr. Chilton. We have tried to answer that question and it 
costs me, personally, about $60,000 a year. But the real cost 
is the concern that my cowboys and my family might be violated, 
get caught between Border Patrol and the illegals in a 
gunfight.
    Mr. Stauber. Mr. Chair, can I use 30 more seconds?
    This President today, without any legislation, by executive 
action, can end catch-and-release, re-instate Remain in Mexico, 
enter into asylum cooperative agreements, end parole abuses, 
detain inadmissible aliens, use expedited removal, rein in 
taxpayer-funded benefits for illegal aliens, and issue a 
proclamation to suspend or restrict entry. This is the exact 
same thing that Chairman Westerman just said. He can do that in 
5 minutes by Executive Order, and I yield back.
    Mr. Tiffany. I believe the gentleman from Minnesota 
directed the question to both Mr. Chilton and Mr. Boelts. Mr. 
Boelts, do you want to address that question of the cost to 
your operation as a result of illegal immigration?
    Mr. Boelts. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative 
Stauber, myself and my neighbors, it costs those of us 
operating roughly the 40,000 acres that are closest to our 
international boundary anywhere from a couple hundred thousand 
a year in cleanup to several million dollars a year. It just 
depends.
    We had a unique situation where a whole group of Haitian 
immigrants, who were a little bit unique compared to most 
immigrants and asylum seekers, folks entering the country 
illegally. They camped out alongside one of our fresh produce 
fields and one of my neighbors', and stayed there for a couple 
of days. They were unique in that they weren't walking across 
the border and saying, ``Here I am. Where is my free bus 
ticket, my free meal ticket, my free airline ticket, and my 
hotel room?'' They were less trusting of Federal and local 
authorities, so they camped out for a couple of days, mostly 
women and children. You don't want people sitting next to your 
fresh produce field who you can't get to leave. So, that was a 
unique situation. But yes, unbelievable quantity of trash, 
refuse, trampling of crops. It is extraordinary.
    And the worst part about it is most of the folks that I 
mentioned in my testimony that legally work in agricultural 
fields in my community, the first- and second-generation 
immigrants, ask them what they think about what is going on 
today. They are appalled. These are people that spent tens of 
thousands of their own hard-earned dollars. Sometimes it 
impacted multiple generations. And they sit there and work 
every day and watch our government. They worked hard to become 
part of this country, a legal part of this country. They pass 
through checkpoints. They pass through ports of entry. They did 
it legally, and they are extremely appalled. Many of them are 
the ones out here picking up the trash, refuse, and trying to 
make use of the crops behind this tragedy.
    Mr. Tiffany. I would now like to recognize the gentleman 
from Guam, Mr. Moylan, for his questioning.
    Mr. Moylan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, 
everyone, for being here today to participate in this very 
important hearing. I just wanted to expand a little bit more in 
talking about the financial side of this impact we are seeing 
from this influx of migrants.
    My district is from Guam, and it is not as impacted exactly 
as the issues you are facing, but my constituents know all too 
well the feeling of being left to deal with a large number of 
migrants without adequate financing support from the Federal 
Government.
    My first question is for Mayor McCaa. Thank you for your 
extensive Army service, sir, by the way, and thank you for 
coming today to discuss how your community has been impacted by 
this migrant crisis. You mentioned some of the numbers, but I 
just really want you to expand and help us see it even clearer, 
the impact that your local town budget that you are using to 
provide the services, such as police, fire, and 
hospitalization, that is being taken away from your residents. 
This money has been taken away from your budget.
    What is being neglected? How can you continue on this way 
without the Federal Government coming in and giving you that 
support?
    Mr. McCaa. Chairman Tiffany, Representative Moylan, thank 
you. Our budget is being impacted. We have our CEO of the 
hospital; he is in the room as well. He had said that our 
hospitals are overcrowded. Emergency rooms are overcrowded. Our 
resources, again, our police resources, we only have 66 sworn, 
but when load cars come through town, again, every sworn 
detective, even our own deputy chief, have to go out on the 
road. That takes away from our citizens. That takes away from 
our communities.
    Our budget, I don't have the hard numbers but I can get 
those to you after this is concluded.
    Mr. Moylan. That is fine. I am actually thinking, are you 
having to neglect basic services for your residents because of 
the lack of budget, or the amount of budget that you have to 
use in order to provide these services to these illegal 
migrants?
    Mr. McCaa. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Moylan. For example, what other things are being 
neglected?
    Mr. McCaa. Just regular patrols around town, sir, regular 
patrols that keep our communities safe.
    Mr. Moylan. Sheriff, do you want to add onto that?
    Sheriff Dannels. Yes, if I could add a collective statement 
on that. Under just the jail bookings I shared earlier, over 3 
years ago our percentage of border-related crimes in our jail 
estimated were 5 to 10 percent. We are pushing 44 percent of 
all the crime in our jail is border related. That is a 
collective statement of every community in this county for law 
enforcement, that is what they are addressing in their 
communities too. It is relevant.
    Mr. Moylan. How is your retention rate with your officers, 
and new recruits as well?
    Sheriff Dannels. It is a serious challenge because we spend 
40 to 45 percent of our time dealing with some kind of border 
crime. When you guys were at the border down there, I got back 
in my car and they were looking for a load vehicle, as you were 
sitting at the border. We deal with it all day long. Whether it 
is a death, whether it is a tragedy, whether it is a high-risk 
pursuit, we are dealing with it.
    And let me just say, and it hasn't been discussed, I think 
it is really important, if I get the privilege on this is the 
threats towards law enforcement, I have seen agents where they 
tried to cut their throats, I have seen troopers drug by the 
smuggler drivers, I had two deputies almost killed last year. 
One is still off the job, and I am sitting there at the 
hospital. They didn't think he was going to live, from an 
incident from a load driver going 100 miles an hour. Are we 
sick of it? Yes, we are real sick of it. We are sick of it, and 
we are asking for answers. But these officers, these deputies, 
these agents, and these troopers are putting their lives on the 
line, and thank you all for supporting that. Thank you, sir, 
for what you said on that, wearing the badge with us. We need 
your help on that.
    Mr. Moylan. I would be happy to help, but I just wish our 
President would be more involved in this. You expressed some 
dangerous situations going on here. You are pleading for help. 
You have the facts in front of you. Yet, I don't understand why 
the Biden administration hasn't taken the time to come and 
stand by your side and do what is right.
    Sheriff Dannels. And just to add on that, I was on 
President Biden's transition team on behalf of National 
Sheriffs'. I shared the stories and the good efforts that we 
are doing, the reality of our conversation. I was shocked, 
disappointed, and, again, frustrated that on Day 1, the first 
week, he declared the southwest border a non-emergency, which 
puts us in this position even worse than we have ever seen it. 
It is frustrating.
    I spoke to the White House, Tom Perez, along with four 
other sheriffs just recently. I begged for a meeting with the 
national sheriff leadership, and it has been crickets ever 
since.
    Mr. Moylan. I thank you for your service, and the rest of 
the panel and those coming here today.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
    Mr. Tiffany. The gentleman yields. I would like to 
recognize Mr. LaMalfa, from California, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for 
gathering here today for us to be able to interact with you. I 
have made a couple of trips to the border, and today just 
underlines how futile what we are doing, or what this Federal 
Government is doing, is. It is appalling. And my wish is not to 
politicize this per se. But for President Biden to come on the 
TV and say, ``Well, the Republicans could have been doing 
something about this.'' Hogwash. I mean, they held all three 
branches from 2000 to 2022. They could have done anything they 
want on the Democrat side with their dominance. Any legislation 
they wanted, they could have done it, all right. And they did 
not act. Instead, they have opened the gates even wider.
    Nobody wants to hear this partisan stuff. I get it. But you 
have to lay the problem where it is. So, for us to be taking up 
this situation with Secretary Mayorkas, a lot of people say, 
``Oh, it is just a political stunt. You are going to impeach 
this guy, right?'' He has earned it, OK. He has lied to the 
public. He has lied to Congress. He has not done his job. No, 
maybe you-know-what rolls downhill. Maybe the orders are coming 
from the top. But he could do honorable things and either speak 
against it or resign himself if he finds what is going on, what 
his orders are, so abhorrent.
    So, we will be doing that again this coming week, and maybe 
we can get our act together and actually see that through, and 
make the statement on that, and hold him accountable. That is 
what it is about. It is not a political stunt.
    With that, I am a farmer in Northern California in my real 
life, and I wanted to ask a couple of questions of Mr. Boelts 
and one of Mr. Chilton, as well. Mr. Chilton, let me start with 
you. Again, we were out there a minute ago looking at the fence 
line, and all that fence material that we paid millions and 
millions of dollars for, a lot of them have date codes on it. 
They are like from October/November 2020, that material has 
been laying there.
    Did I not hear there was a situation for a while where 
people with private property right up against the border, that 
there were folks helping fund and put up fence on private lands 
and the ability to do that? Mr. Chilton, was that something 
that was offered to you or available to you, or has that since 
been tossed out by a court or something? Do you have that 
availability of somebody building privately and getting the 
funding to fence off your land?
    Mr. Chilton. The 5.5 miles of international border on my 
ranch is all Federal land. The problem is they cross Federal 
land and then cross my private property. Private people have a 
difficult time getting the approval of the Federal Government 
to put in walls.
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK, thank you. Yes, I knew it was going to be 
tough. Well, we still have these gaps in it, and we couldn't 
see them all where we were, but we know about them. On our 
previous trip down to the Yuma area, you could see the gaps. It 
is ridiculous, people just streaming across. Biden promised 
about 2 years ago, ``We are going to fill in the gaps.'' I 
guess they have done a little bit of it now, but it is 
ridiculous.
    Mr. Boelts, when you are talking about the people trampling 
through the fields there, I would like to give you more time to 
emphasize on what the losses are on that, because in 
California, we have implemented very tough, what is it, 
phytotoxicity rules on the leafy green crops and such. You 
can't get anything out of them. They are even talking about 
screening over orchards there so if birds are flying over you 
don't get bird feces on the fruit, and stuff like that. I mean, 
they don't live in the real world sometimes. But what do you 
have to deal with as far as the cost, the other preventative 
measures, because they are out there anyway, in order to 
protect your crops and get your crops so they can pass health 
and food inspection to get them to market? And what is the cost 
to your industry?
    Mr. Boelts. Mr. Chairman, Representative LaMalfa, yes, it 
is an extraordinary situation. Basically, if we have any animal 
or any human being, these are where pathogens come from, right? 
Human pathogens are carried by people, and they are carried by 
wildlife and domesticated animals.
    So, we are very cognizant of it. We are evaluating fields 
before they are planted, at planting. During the growing of the 
crop we are especially attentive. And then immediately prior to 
harvest evaluations happen.
    On a field-by-field basis, roughly an acre of fresh produce 
can be worth $5,000 to $6,000 before a knife is put to it and 
it is harvested. So, we are obviously trying to make the best 
use that we can of----
    Mr. LaMalfa. Like talking for your industry, are we talking 
tens of millions in losses? Are farmers looking at what they 
are dealing with there and saying, ``Maybe I am just not going 
to plant these particular crops by the border.'' That sort of 
thing?
    Mr. Boelts. There are definitely some lands that are not 
put into fresh vegetable production. They are left in other 
crops for that specific reason. There is fencing going in. 
There is crop lost every year because they are not just being 
physically trampled but just when folks that are not properly 
trained enter a field you have to section off that area of the 
field.
    It is an ongoing issue. Our particular issue is largest in 
the very western part of our county on or near the Cocopah 
Reservation. There is no fencing on the Cocopah Reservation. 
That is a unique situation for our State Department, the 
Cocopah Tribe. It is not just a problem for us farmers that are 
farming Cocopah land. It is an extraordinary problem for the 
Border Patrol. There is a concentration up there, resources 
dedicated there because of there being no wall.
    There is some Normandy fencing, but even that has been 
penetrated with vehicles running people and smuggling drugs. 
So, it is an extraordinary problem. It has been going on for 
decades.
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK, thank you. If you are not growing it here, 
and I am not growing it in the Central Valley because they are 
taking the water away and giving it to fish, or in my district 
where the marijuana cartels, because of the border, are making 
water and land unusable, we have a gigantic problem. Thank you.
    Mr. Westerman [presiding]. The gentleman's time has 
expired. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Oklahoma, 
who is also the Chairman of the House Republican Study 
Committee, Mr. Hern, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Hern. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, but I really want to 
recognize your new Congressman, Congressman Ciscomani. He has 
done a fantastic job for you all representing this most 
important issue in Congress to us all. I often say, and I said 
it certainly this morning, there are a lot of people in 
Congress that talk about things they know nothing about. It is 
wonderful to have somebody there that actually has lived it and 
seen it in his entire life. So, thank you, Juan.
    [Applause.]
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, my friend.
    Mr. Hern. You are hearing us all, and it is so great for us 
to be here and to be able to vent to people that live this 
every single day. And I know in your hearts and in your minds 
you are saying, ``They are here. What are they going to do?'' 
We are on your side, and this is almost like us just talking to 
each other. And it is so great. You have a great sheriff here, 
as was mentioned earlier, you know, all law enforcement. It is 
so refreshing across the country. And I want you to know that 
he is backed by county sheriffs across this nation.
    I just had a roundtable this past week in my district, back 
in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and this same narrative, it is everywhere. 
``Congressman, what are we going to do about the southern 
border? We have fentanyl issues. It is killing our people. And 
it is a travesty. We have human trafficking. Homeland 
Investigation Services are just turning people loose. They are 
not letting us arrest people.''
    And, unfortunately, Mr. Boelts, I think you said this 
earlier, it should not be a partisan issue, but it is, and it 
is sad. It is not a partisan issue to go through that precheck 
line at the airport and make sure there are not criminals when 
you are sitting beside somebody, but you all, every single day, 
are living the same kind of threat in your towns, your 
communities, your homes. Many of us up here have been to the 
southern border numerous times, in Texas that gets the most 
highlight. But as the CBP Chief said a minute ago, we are seven 
times, eight times worse than that, anyplace on the Texas 
border. It is a travesty what is going on across this nation's 
southern border, a travesty.
    We saw an article, and I think more and more people, I 
think we can thank Governor Abbott for what he has done to send 
or allow people to leave Texas and go to these sanctuary cities 
because now you have our colleagues on the other side of the 
aisle that are putting pressure on this, and in Washington, DC. 
There is nothing more impactful than politics. And the 
President knows that there is a real problem now, and he is 
trying to figure out how to do it.
    And you heard my colleagues talk about the eight items out 
there. Sheriff or anybody up here, of those eight items which 
would have the biggest impact on the invasion across our 
southern border.
    And before you answer that I just want to say one thing. If 
you haven't seen how people now are starting to report this, if 
you saw ``60 Minutes'' on Sunday night talk about what was 
happening 60 miles east of San Diego, where TikTok was 
instructing people around the world on how to come to this 
particular point, something as similar as the end of the wall 
that we just saw out here just a minute ago, just droves of 
them. And CBS ``60 Minutes'' reported that there were 600 
Chinese illegal immigrants that came across that one hole in 
the wall in a 3-day period, and TikTok instructed them on how 
to do that, how to bring them 7,000 miles away.
    So, Sheriff, if you could talk to us about the eight items, 
which one of them that the President could implement quickly, 
and what impact it would have.
    Sheriff Dannels. Well, the biggest thing I would say is 
this, and I have said this for the last several years, is you 
have to acknowledge that there is a problem. We just finally 
heard that several weeks ago from President Biden that the 
border is not secured. We have the Vice President, the border 
czar, that has not engaged with the border communities, mayors, 
sheriffs, and beyond. So, he has acknowledged it. Now let's 
prioritize it. Let's engage our community leaders to get to the 
table, and we can fix it.
    At the beginning of the day, we wake up with the 
communities. At the end of the day, we go to bed with the 
communities. But the more you neglect communities, the worse 
this is going to get. We need to prioritize and enforce the 
rule of law.
    And I have to say one last thing that I think is so 
important, that Secretary Mayorkas and I spoke about 3 years 
ago. I said, ``We have to have enhanced judicial oversight on 
credible fear, asylum claims, because right now they are 
exploiting it.'' He said, ``I 100 percent agree with you, 
Sheriff.'' That was 3 years ago. We are nowhere different than 
we were 3 years ago. I will leave it at that.
    Mr. Hern. If you saw what the President said today, which 
proves what my colleagues have said, nothing has changed since 
President Trump was in office. The only thing that has changed 
is that President Biden has undone all the things that 
President Trump did that started slowing the crossings of the 
border. He said today that ``since Congress cannot do 
something, I guess I am going to have to implement Executive 
Orders.'' So, he has known all along that he has had the 
ability to do this, and that they have been discussing this for 
months. And there have been people dying across this country 
because of illegal fentanyl flowing, and you all have been 
suffering.
    So, I just want you to know, those are the facts, and he 
was the one that put that out today that he was going to have 
to do Executive Orders.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Tiffany [presiding]. The gentleman yields. I would now 
like to recognize the gentlelady from Wyoming, Ms. Hageman.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. Mr. Boelts, I had the pleasure of 
visiting the Yuma area last year, although unfortunately it was 
for the purpose of understanding the scope of this crisis. I 
want to discuss how the current failure to defend Federal 
borderlands and secure the southern border is impacting you, 
and I want to focus on the impact it has on Yuma agriculture.
    I was incredibly fascinated to learn that between November 
and March, as much as 90 percent of our nation's leafy 
vegetables like lettuce are grown in Yuma. Mr. Boelts, you 
touch on this in your testimony, but I want to give you more 
time to discuss the burden of individuals crossing through non-
ports of entry has on agriculture in your community. What does 
this do for crop production? What I specifically would like to 
get to is can crossing through your fields result in mandatory 
significant crop destruction?
    Mr. Boelts. Mr. Chairman, Representative Hageman, thank you 
for attending and visiting our area down in Yuma and for being 
here. I hope it has proved extraordinarily educational.
    Yes, I think the most impactful thing is just the sheer 
numbers that Customs and Border Protection is trying to deal 
with, and then us, as farmers, that are operating those public 
and private lands in the proximity to the border.
    When folks enter into a field if they are not properly 
trained that pretty much ends the harvestability of that 
particular area. At $5,000 to $6,000 an acre, that is roughly 
the size of a football field. We are talking about tens of 
thousands of acres that immediately border our international 
boundary, and that is just in that one part of our county where 
the traffic is heaviest.
    Again, I urge the Federal Government to work with the 
Cocopah Tribe. If they were to work with the Cocopah Tribe and 
then get some additional wall, get some additional resources 
put there, and then if we were able to handle the asylum 
seekers differently, we would dramatically cut the number of 
people that Customs and Border Protection is having to 
interdict that are not crossing through ports of entry, and 
that would be extraordinary.
    And the unusual thing is that in our community we are short 
of workers every day to do work in our fields. A good friend of 
mine recently approached Border Patrol about visiting some of 
the folks who are seeking asylum and who have entered our 
country without documentation that are being held temporarily. 
He approached them about asking them if they wanted to join the 
H2-A program. He addressed over 900 folks that had entered our 
country illegally, awaiting transportation or appointments with 
courts, and he received zero takers on his opportunity to go to 
work.
    Ms. Hageman. They are not here for jobs. They are not here 
for opportunity.
    Mr. Boelts. At least not in the areas where they are 
crossing, for sure.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. I am going to give a couple of metrics I 
would love to have more time to address the Ag issue. I grew up 
in Wyoming, on a ranch. I have been farming, handling water 
issues pretty much my entire life, so I feel for both of you. 
But I want to give a few metrics on something that I think is 
very important for what we are discussing today, and that is 
specifically the environmental impact of the illegal crossing.
    For a NEPA environmental review process it takes 
approximately 6.1 years. To obtain a 404 permit under the Clean 
Water Act it takes 10 or more years and costs hundreds of 
thousands of dollars. Over $1.7 billion is spent each year by 
the private and public sectors obtaining wetlands permits to be 
allowed to undertake even the slightest disturbance to a creek 
or waterway.
    I had a case several years ago, I am a water attorney and I 
had a lawsuit in Wyoming where one of my clients cleaned out an 
irrigation ditch, affected 2.1 acres of land on his own 
property. The EPA concluded that that was a navigable water of 
the United States, brought a lawsuit against him, and when we 
went to trial he was facing penalties of almost $65 million for 
cleaning out an irrigation ditch on his own property.
    The irony is that none of the individuals or companies 
undertaking a NEPA analysis or a 404 permit would ever be 
allowed to cause the type of environmental degradation and 
destruction that the cartels and illegals are causing 
throughout the southern border, as shown in the photographs 
that we saw today.
    I think we have to acknowledge something, and that is that 
the Biden administration has gone to war with the American 
public. They have elevated the financial interests of the 
cartels above and against us. They are turning a blind eye to 
the environmental destruction that is being caused by the 
cartels and the illegals, and we are being punished for it. We 
not only have the economic impact, we not only have the impact 
on our farms and our ranches, our communities, our law 
enforcement officers, but our creeks, our waterways, our 
Federal lands, and our private lands are being destroyed by 
illegal immigration, and this Administration is doing nothing 
about it.
    Again, I wish I had more time to discuss all of these 
issues with you, but it is something that we, as Congress, have 
to address to make sure that we are not losing some of our most 
valuable resources because this Administration refuses to 
secure our border.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Tiffany. The Representative from Wyoming yields. I 
would now like to recognize the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. 
Carter.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
allowing me to waive onto this Committee. Gentleman, I do not 
serve on the Natural Resources Committee but I do serve on the 
Energy and Commerce Committee as well as the Budget Committee.
    Let me tell you about the Energy and Commerce Committee. 
Just recently, I have been honored to be chosen as Chair of the 
Subcommittee on Environment and Critical Materials and 
Manufacturing. Well, I will be quite honest with you. I have 
set a number of goals with my priorities of what I want to 
accomplish in the environment setting but I haven't really 
thought about this until I got here, and then all of a sudden I 
hear about the impact that this is having on our environment. 
So, know that you have influenced another Committee of Congress 
to take action on things that we need to be taking action on, 
and that is very important.
    I also serve, within the Energy and Commerce Committee, on 
the Communications and Technology Subcommittee, and I 
understand that this is a problem, Sheriff, where we are 
hearing that the cartels are using the internet to get people 
and to bring people in to help the people across the border and 
to do all kinds of things, that we need to address Section 230. 
And we have known for a long time, but not because of this. 
This was not one of the reasons why. And we need to address 
that as well.
    On the Budget Committee that I serve on, and Mr. Mayor, I 
was a mayor in a former life too, and you heard Mr. Curtis say 
that. You better be careful. They may sentence you to Congress 
one day. But I know the budget impact. I know the impact that 
this can have on the budget.
    I say all that to tell you that, yes, this is the Natural 
Resources Committee, but it is much more than that. This issue 
is impacting all of America. I represent the entire coast of 
Georgia. I am not sure you can get any further away from this 
area than you can where I represent. But this is a big issue 
for us.
    By profession I am a pharmacist, and I will tell you that 
the fentanyl problem, the crisis that we have in the country, 
killing 200 people every day, the No. 1 killer, as the Chairman 
told you, of adults 18 to 45. As a pharmacist, I was 
embarrassed. I made a mistake. I was in a town hall meeting and 
I referred to it as fentanyl addiction. And a mother stood up 
and corrected me, as she should have, and she said, ``No, sir. 
It is not fentanyl addiction.'' She said, ``My son took one 
pill and he's dead. It's fentanyl poisoning.'' It is poisoning 
our citizens.
    And then I hear, Sheriff, that the price of fentanyl has 
plummeted. And you know, it is simple economics. It is just 
telling you, supply and demand, the supply in America right now 
is decreasing the price. What can we do to help you in that 
respect? I know we need to address it, Sheriff, on the 
internet. Now I am going to do that when I get back to 
Washington. I am going to do that. I am going to address that 
and explain to my colleagues why we need to do this. How else 
can we help you?
    Sheriff Dannels. Well, Congressman, I will say two things. 
The war on drugs needs to be re-addressed. We are losing so 
many good Americans every day, especially our young ones, that 
are attached, best friends, to social media. That is a tragedy. 
That is a true tragedy.
    The second thing is this. We have to hold social media 
accountable. And I appreciate the hearing you all just did in 
DC recently. I think you made an impact on that. And I will say 
this to you. When you can go on social media right now, anyone 
in this room, to include yourselves, and buy a fentanyl pill 
and it is delivered to your house, in our community we call 
that a drug dealer, but for some reason they are immune from 
doing that. Something has to change on that, and thank you for 
doing what you are doing.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, and thank you for bringing that to 
my attention.
    Folks, this is the eighth time in the 10 years that I have 
been a Member of Congress that I have been to the border. Every 
time it has gotten worse, and now it is worse. I want to tell 
you what I have learned since I have been here, and this is 
important. First of all, I want to continue to thank Customs 
and Border Patrol agents for the outstanding work that they are 
doing, the outstanding work that they continue to do.
    I learned today, during this trip, that we have more non-
Mexicans coming across the border than we do Mexicans. I didn't 
know that before I came down here. That has to be of concern to 
us.
    I also learned that the price of fentanyl has plummeted. 
That tells us the supply.
    But Sheriff, you made a comment that I think all of us are 
going to take with us, and that is that this is not an 
immigration problem; this is an organized crime problem. And 
until we realize that in this country, we are not going to be 
able to do anything about it. We are at war with the cartels, 
and we need to start acting that way and responding that way.
    I can't thank you all enough for what you do for our 
country. Thank you, Mr. Chilton. Thank you all for being here, 
and I yield back.
    Mr. Tiffany. The gentleman yields. I would like to 
recognize the Chairman of the Western Caucus, Mr. Newhouse, for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank everyone 
for being here. Thank you for allowing me and other members of 
the Western Caucus to sit in on what has turned out to be a 
very important conversation.
    I don't think it is too bold of a statement to say that I 
think this topic that we are talking about today is the No. 1 
issue facing our nation today. And I just want to thank 
everybody here, all of our panelists for participating, all of 
the Members of Congress for being here, and all of you in the 
audience for taking an interest in helping to solve this 
problem. I can't imagine what it would be like living in what 
we have been told is the best city in the country, and I will 
not dispute that, but you must have a heck of a challenge every 
single day, and I want to tell you, we appreciate what you are 
going through. And we want to be helpful. That is the point of 
this hearing today, to try to be helpful.
    The alarming rate of illegal border crossings and the 
impact that it is having across this nation just proves every 
single day that whether you are in northern Wisconsin, as the 
Chairman is, or southwestern Arkansas, where our Committee 
Chairman is, or whether you are in central Washington, or 
anywhere in the country, we now join southern Arizona as being 
a border state. The impacts are felt everywhere.
    We are very frustrated in central Washington. We, like 
everybody else, have seen a dramatic increase in the number of 
people dying from fentanyl and fentanyl poisoning. I put 
together what I call my Central Washington Fentanyl Task Force. 
We brought together members of law enforcement, judges, medical 
professionals, counselors, educators, even drug addicts, to try 
to come together with ideas to help solve this problem.
    And certainly education and prevention are important, but 
one thing that we have been told by some people is you might as 
well forget about trying to stop the flow of drugs into the 
country. We can't touch that. We can't deal with that. We are 
not going to be able to make any difference there. And I want 
to ask Sheriff Dannels, maybe Mr. Del Cueto, what you think 
about that. Is that a futile effort on our part, as a country, 
to stop this?
    Sheriff Dannels. The return on that, Congressman, is going 
to be a challenge. I agree with that. But we can do it. We 
truly can do it. This is a social problem in our country that 
we have to address at the homeland first, but we can't address 
it here until we secure our borders. There is no other way to 
say that.
    And this is not just a government problem. This is a 
citizen problem. The good Congressman from California asked 
about the border and the private funds and if I can answer 
that. Long story short is we had a fundraiser several years ago 
where the citizens of this great state put money forward. We 
took those funds here in Cochise County and put in a virtual 
system that covers the whole state of Arizona and parts of New 
Mexico, 1,300 cameras strong, that is watched 24/7 here.
    We all have to do our part, just like you mentioned, and if 
we can't recognize that people are dying every day because an 
illicit drug and a criminal cartel is killing us, then shame on 
us, as this country. We can do a better job.
    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you.
    Mr. Del Cueto. There are tons of drugs coming across the 
border because there aren't enough agents out there watching 
the line. I know often it has been said if you hire more agents 
you can put them out there on the line. Under this 
Administration, the more agents you are going to hire they are 
just going to put them in the processing centers so they can 
process individuals faster.
    The only way you are going to stop this is if you stop 
giving the incentives and you actually have some type of 
consequence for the individuals that are crossing. The cartels, 
yes, they control the border. They realize that they can flood 
one area of the border, send as many individuals as they can. 
They know all the agents in that area are going to be forced to 
go into the processing centers, and that is when it gives them 
the opportunity to bring their drugs across.
    Now you have seen some of the camera footage that Mr. 
Chilton has put up. I know Sheriff Dannels has camera footage, 
videos, that I am sure he has shown you. But the reality is you 
don't have cameras across that entire border, and the drug 
cartels are very much aware of that. So, there are tons that 
are coming in that we don't even know are coming in. There are 
individuals that are coming in that have been apprehended on 
the terrorist watch list, but at the same times those 
individuals have been apprehended with other large groups, and 
the other individuals in that same group may come from the same 
area of the world that they have come through, but if they are 
not on the terrorist watch list they are asking for asylum and 
they are getting released as well. You need to stop just 
allowing them to be released, and you have to have true 
consequences for the crimes that are being committed.
    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you. This is a hearing on the impact of 
public lands. I am a farmer myself in central Washington, so I 
really relate to the testimony of you two gentlemen as it 
relates to the impact on your farms. I can only imagine, Mr. 
Chilton, you mentioned the safety of your family, of your 
workers, trying to farm, trying to ranch under these 
circumstances has to be challenging. I hear it is expensive. 
And I wish we could spend another hearing just on this subject 
alone because it is so important.
    But thank you all for being here. Thanks for being part of 
the solution. And I see this as just a start of the 
conversation between us. We need to stay closely in touch, so 
thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Tiffany. The gentleman yields. I would like to 
recognize the gentlelady from Minnesota, Ms. Fischbach, for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Fischbach. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, I just 
want to say thank you, Representative Ciscomani, for the 
invitation down, and thank you to the Western Caucus, and thank 
you to the Chair, because I think it is so important that we 
have these meetings and we are out and about and we are 
actually looking at the border, not just talking about it, and 
we know what is going on, and we are talking to the people that 
it affects.
    And I also thank you for waiving me onto the Committee. I 
actually sit on Ways and Means, but we are doing the field 
hearings too, and I see such great value in them. So, I really 
appreciate the community welcoming us and such hospitality. And 
I also really am pleased to see that you are all together on 
this. This is a huge issue for you, and you want to make sure 
that we are helping you and not hindering what is going. So, I 
appreciate you all being here, and actually, I have 
constituents here, if you can believe, because they are just so 
excited to come down and see me.
    I am just teasing. They are here for other reasons than to 
see me. But they are concerned about the border too, and that 
is one thing. Representative Stauber represents one-half of the 
northern border in Minnesota. I represent the other half in 
Minnesota. And I mentioned this to the Sheriff earlier. We are 
already getting reports that we are having illegal crossing 
there. So, maybe very soon we are going to be seeing the same 
problems, unfortunately, so we need to make sure that we are 
doing what we can to help you secure and do what you can so 
that we can do the same when we need to.
    But I think there have been a lot of great questions, a lot 
of great comments. And since I am second to last, what I want 
to do is give everybody, I have 3 minutes, if you have anything 
that you wanted to say that you weren't offered the opportunity 
to, here to just finish up. If there a comment you want to 
make, kind of last chance, unless Representative Collins 
decides to turn over some time. And it looks like Mr. Del Cueto 
has something?
    Mr. Del Cueto. Yes, ma'am. Look, we understand that there 
are things that President Biden can do, but we know he is not 
going to do them. And that is why we need bills and laws to 
come through so we can actually hold him accountable and 
actually get things done. H.R. 2 happened to be the perfect 
bill. There was no attacking it. But we need to pass bills. We 
can't just say, hey, he can do this, or he can do that, because 
we are aware of what he can do, but we are also aware of what 
he is not going to do. We need Congress to work together and 
get bills across so we can stop what is happening on our 
southern border.
    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing. The 
drug cartels do not care. They just want to come into the 
United States, harm American citizens, and if we continue just 
pointing a finger at one way or the other, we are never going 
to get anything done. Thank you.
    Ms. Fischbach. And Mr. Del Cueto, can I ask, are you 
engaged with both parties in Congress or whoever is on that? 
Because we need your engagement before it gets to that point if 
there is a bill, but the input on the policy. So, I would love 
to see you engaged with that as it is produced.
    Mr. Del Cueto. The National Border Patrol Council is 
engaged with both sides, and we do have a good relationship and 
we are able to talk to certain individuals on either side. 
Obviously, we have better relationships with some than with 
others, but yes, we are engaged with different sides to try to 
get the right things done.
    Also, aside from your question, I want to thank Congressman 
Ciscomani for putting this together and coming down here. I 
will add that he is one of the Congressmen in Arizona that has 
continuously been engaged and continuously makes phone calls, 
asking not just what is going on with the border but also 
asking how the Border Patrol agents themselves are doing. So, I 
want to thank you for that.
    Ms. Fischbach. And I appreciate making sure you are engaged 
in making those suggestions on policy because that is what we 
need. And I believe someone else had another comment. There you 
go. I am sorry.
    Mr. Chilton. I am stunned that nobody has talked about 
securing the border at the border, finishing the wall. You 
can't tell me that the U.S. Government can't secure the border 
if it wants to. We need to complete the wall. We need to put 
the fiberoptic communications in, the sensors in, the 
electricity, and put the military, if necessary, or the 
National Guard on the border. We need to secure the border at 
the border.
    [Applause.]
    Ms. Fischbach. Thank you very much. And does anybody else 
want the last word?
    Sheriff Dannels. As elected sheriff, you know I am going to 
say something. I will say this. I did the meeting interview a 
while back and they asked me, similar to what you have all 
made, and I appreciate the kind comments to all of us here on 
the panel, but, ``Sheriff, why do you do what you do?'' No. 1, 
we signed up for it, just like you all have. But they really 
hit that hard, you know, we have given up, we are not going to 
do it anymore, we are not going to do it anymore. And I made a 
comment and I want to share it with the people in the audience 
today and you all today, that is, I was elected to promote this 
quality of life of the citizens of this county, to enforce the 
rule of law. The day I give up hope is the day we are in a hell 
of a lot of trouble here in Cochise County, and we are never 
going to give up hope. We, as leaders today, have to stand 
united, state, local, and Federal. If we can do that in this 
country, this problem will go away.
    So, thank you for the opportunity to address that.
    Ms. Fischbach. And thank you very much, and thank you all 
for being here. I appreciate it. Thank you to the whole 
community coming together to address this. And you heard so 
many folks have been here numerous times, have been to the 
border. I know that we have to address it, and I know that 
these folks continue to come down. And the fact that, what, 12 
or 13 of us showed up to come down here to see what is going 
on, we will do our best, we will do what we can, and we 
appreciate your support and help too.
    So, thank you very much, and I yield back.
    Mr. Tiffany. The gentlelady yields. I now would like to 
recognize the other gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Collins.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As an old trucker 
from Georgia in his first term in Congress, I ran on several 
different things, and the border issue was right up there as 
No. 1, securing that border. Mr. Chilton, you took the words 
right out of my mouth, that walls work, and we need to finish 
that wall.
    When I have been up here over a year, I have had the 
opportunity to go, I think this may be my seventh or eighth 
field hearing. And most of the time we sit in DC, and we hold 
these hearings, and haul these intellectuals in from Harvard 
and Yale, you know, the ones that know everything. But that 
isn't where the real story is at. And it is nice to come out 
here to see real people, and to look out there and see on your 
face the concern that you have, not just for you but for your 
family and for your kids.
    I represent about 20 counties, and we have a county that is 
barely 1,500 people. Man, they are losing a person, more than 
one person a month, to fentanyl. And this is up in the North 
Georgia Mountains, good blue-collar people.
    Sheriff, sometimes I like to rant and don't ask questions, 
but I have to know something because I am like Representative 
Buddy Carter here. I did not know, I thought that when you 
wanted to cross the border you shelled out, I don't know how 
these folks have $8,000 to $10,000. I thought they were poor 
and couldn't afford nothing. But I thought that you just came 
here, shelled out money, and you went across the border. But 
from what I understand, and I want you to elaborate just to 
tell the American people exactly how this works. Because 
apparently there are certain sections of the border that you go 
across, depending on who you are, what you are, and this thing 
is way more organized than just a ferry boat ride across the 
river.
    Sheriff Dannels. Congressman, you are exactly right on 
that, and thanks to your sheriff and your district that came 
out and spent some time with us too, Sheriff Long. But it is 
true. It is the gatekeepers by the cartels that control the 
fees, control who comes across the country. As my friend here 
from Border Patrol will tell you, too, it is $7,000 and up, 
based on who you are and who is taking the money from you. And 
a lot of those people, Congressman, don't have the money, so 
they become servants. And that is where that word, the modern-
day slavery, and it is amazing that we are allowing that to 
happen, to come to the country. They are servants to the 
cartels for labor, sex, enforcement, whatever the case may be. 
We have to address the cartels, not as a political body but a 
criminal body. And you have heard me talk about that earlier 
today too.
    So, it is a tragedy what is going on with these cartels, 
and it is sad that we are down here, state, local, community 
leaders, doing everything we can while the White House and 
Members of Congress are turning their back on that criminal 
cartel, because they are the ones winning here.
    Mr. Collins. I appreciate that. The criminals that are 
coming across, they don't respect our borders. They don't 
respect that trash or the firewood. They don't respect our law 
enforcement or our laws.
    I want to tell you all something. The hearings I have been 
on, the Federal Government doesn't give a rat's butt what you 
think. It is complete overreach. It is completely out of 
control. It is dominance. It is dominance over the American 
people to push us far left into a socialistic society. And if 
they can import people, like the people you have seen out there 
with these protests, that don't have any respect for law 
enforcement, then they have more voters in the country.
    The thing I think I want to get across today is, and I want 
two things to come across. No. 1, by God, the political winds 
are changing in this country. Sir, you are exactly right. That 
border bill the Senate put out there, it was crap. I am glad 
they didn't take it up. H.R. 2 has been sitting over there in 
the Senate for almost a year. Hell, it has enough dirt on it 
you could plant produce in it. But they are not going to take 
that up. Of course, they are not. They are not going to take up 
anything. They are not going to do those eight suggestions. I 
have them posted outside my wall. They are not going to do 
that. That would interfere with their agenda.
    But I tell you what, November is coming quick. Biden had 
all three houses when he first came in. If they wanted to 
really pass a border law they could have done it then. What 
chamber were they missing? Nothing. We can fix that in 
November. If we put the right people in place up there, and by 
God, we will let these folks know that came into this country 
illegal, it is time to go home, because if you don't want to go 
home, we are going to pick you up and we are going to send you 
home, because it is time to take our country back.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back with that.
    [Applause.]
    Mr. Tiffany. The gentleman yields. I would now like to 
recognize Mr. Ciscomani for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and well, again, I am 
the last one. I just want to thank again everyone here on the 
table for being here, for listening so attentively to the 
witnesses. That is what I do. This is where I get my 
information, so now you know. If you like what I am saying up 
there, it is because I listen to the right people here.
    I am not sure, though, if I totally appreciate Mr. Carter 
trying to encourage Mr. McCaa over there running for Congress. 
I mean, I just got here. OK. But Mr. McCaa, thank you for what 
you do.
    Mayor, I will start with you real quick. I have a few 
questions and only 5 minutes left, of course. But, we often 
hear about the partisanship on the border issues, and one thing 
I talk about in Washington all the time, that it may be 
partisan in Washington, and it is. We have seen it. But I 
always say that at home it is not. At home, we have mayors on 
both sides of the aisle, county supervisors on both sides of 
the aisle, constituents on both sides of the aisle that care 
about this. And I think by this panel we have a clear example 
of that. By people in the audience we have a clear example of 
that.
    Can you talk about that, how this issue is not a partisan 
issue here at home?
    Mr. McCaa. Yes, sir. Chairman Tiffany, Congressman 
Ciscomani, the letter that we wrote to President Biden on 
January 5, it doesn't have Republican or Democrat on it. We 
have seven mayors here in Cochise County that have gathered a 
coalition, Democrats, Independents, as well as Republicans, to 
back our sheriff, to back our police chiefs, and our Federal 
partners. We wrote a letter to him. We haven't heard. The only 
person I heard from was Representative Ciscomani. We carbon-
copied the Vice President, Mr. Mike Johnson, Senator Sinema, 
Senator Kelly, Representative Juan Ciscomani, Governor Katie 
Hobbs, my dear sheriff, we always talk every day, but I have 
not heard a squeaking wheel from anyone else.
    Mr. Ciscomani. That is a shame.
    Mr. McCaa. We, as mayors in this county, are gathered 
together because we have an issue here. We have a problem, and 
we are going to back our sheriff and our police chiefs, and we 
are going to make sure that Washington hears our voices.
    Mr. Ciscomani. I love that, and if there is something that 
I want my colleagues to take away from this is that example, 
that this is not a partisan issue at home. At the border it is 
not. In Washington, where we fight every day, it is, but right 
here it is not.
    Sheriff Dannels, real quick, we met back in December, we 
discussed the burden of the border crisis on the County 
Attorney's Office and the increasing crime rates here. Can you 
elaborate a little bit on what crime you see and how the county 
is dealing with it?
    Sheriff Dannels. First of all, Congressman, thank you. We 
are honored to have you serving us here. And I will say in the 
short tenure you have been in Congress you have been the most 
engaged U.S. Congressman I have ever dealt with, so thank you 
so much for leading us and everything you are doing. We are 
honored to have you, I will say it again.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you.
    Sheriff Dannels. Our biggest threat is the international 
draw to Cochise County by the cartels, through social media, 
coming down here. They are bringing their criminal baggage, 
their stolen cars, their warrants, teenagers. We had a case out 
of Ohio where a fugitive came down here with a 17-year-old 
missing and exploited child from the state of Ohio. We see it 
all here, and the murders and the tragedies from our citizens 
and death along our highways.
    We had a third-grader walking to school and came across a 
migrant that had come across the border illegally, died in the 
back seat of the smuggler's car. They rolled his body out along 
the highway, and here comes a third-grader going to school. You 
name it, we see it, Congressman, and that is what I am saying. 
We have to do something different because we are changing lives 
every day in this country because we are doing nothing. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Sheriff. I have been spending the 
night tour with you, and you are still very active out there, 
making stops yourself, and I appreciate that.
    Speaking of that, I will go to Mr. Del Cueto here. On that 
same note, on the agents, and today you are wearing a really 
nice suit and a tie, and I appreciate that.
    Mr. Del Cueto. Thank you.
    Mr. Ciscomani. But every time I see you, though, you are 
working out in the field. You have actually been injured on the 
job due to the attacks that you have received yourself. The 
same goes for the agents that work there, that you represent so 
fervently every single day, and you speak on their behalf. And 
you and I have talked about this before.
    My last question here will go to you. Can you talk a little 
bit about the morale of the agents right now, and what they are 
facing? What is happening in terms of the turnover, and what 
that means for the force, as well.
    Mr. Del Cueto. The morale is the lowest that I have ever 
seen it. I remember when I first started I would see agents 
that would get near the point of retirement and many of them 
would ask for extensions so they could stay. Many other agents 
would stay until it was time for them, mandatory, to leave the 
job. Right now, you are getting so many agents that the first 
thing they do, as soon as they are eligible, they are leaving 
the job. They are just saying they cannot deal with it. A lot 
of it is because they have an Administration, they have 
leadership within the agency that has not backed them up. We 
have talked about it, and we have seen what happened with the 
horse patrol and everything else. It is getting so difficult 
for agents to be out there and actually do their job, and do it 
knowing they are doing the right thing, but obviously always 
underneath a microscope, and we have an Administration that 
just will not back them up for what they are doing. The morale 
is the lowest I have ever seen in my entire career.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you for what you do, and thanks to 
everybody on the panel. With that, I yield.
    Mr. Tiffany. The gentleman yields. Mr. LaMalfa, you asked 
for 1 more minute. I will give you 1 more minute.
    Mr. LaMalfa. It is just an action I will throw, an action 
people can take. Mr. Del Cueto, I appreciate your passion on 
that. We passed legislation in DC to do these things. On 
September 29, under Speaker McCarthy, we had in a continuing 
resolution tough border policy, and we were shot down by some 
of our own dummies on that one.
    But previously, last May, on May 11, H.R. 2 passed the 
House on a partisan vote, 219 to 213, and it is sitting over in 
the Senate. So, if people want something to do, call your 
United States Senators from Arizona that profess to be 
moderate, and ask them, ``Where is H.R. 2? Why is that not 
moving in order to fix this?''
    One more thing you can do is call the White House on the 
eight points that Mr. Stauber listed, that the President could 
do without having to pass a bill through Congress or blame us 
or anything. He could do that by executive action and it 
wouldn't even be unconstitutional. On those eight points he 
could take action. Folks, demand those actions and we will see 
some results.
    Thank you, and God bless you.
    Mr. Tiffany. The gentleman yields. And we are going to 
conclude this hearing, but first the Chairman of the Natural 
Resources Committee made a commitment at the start of this 
session to have hearings across the United States of America, 
and we have been fulfilling that commitment, including we went 
to Guam earlier, in 2023. We have been having hearings across 
the United States of America, and I appreciate him keeping that 
commitment. And I would like to give the Chairman of the Full 
Committee another little bit of time for brief closing remarks.
    Mr. Westerman. Thank you again, Chairman Tiffany, and thank 
you to everyone here today for the hospitality that you have 
shown to us, for the interest you have, to all of our 
panelists, and to all the Members who took time from very, very 
busy schedules, from all parts of the country to come here 
today.
    And the reason we are here is because this is important. 
This is extremely important. And I can tell you, when I became 
first Ranking Member of the Natural Resources Committee and 
then Chairman of the Committee, hearings on border security 
weren't what you would think the Natural Resources Committee 
would be addressing. But this problem infiltrates all of our 
country, from sea to shining sea, and Alaska and Hawaii and our 
territories as well.
    And to illustrate that, I ended up in New York City, of all 
places, on National Park Service land in Brooklyn, where this 
Administration waived every environmental law, they waived 
NEPA, they waived the Endangered Species Act, they waived the 
Historical Preservation Act, in 1 week to build migrant 
shelters to process illegal migrants in New York City. So, 
don't tell me that this doesn't affect every nook and cranny of 
our country.
    We all took an oath to uphold the Constitution. Our 
Committee has full jurisdiction over Federal lands, 35 percent 
of the southern border is Federal lands, and things happen on 
those lands from the actions of illegal migrants that American 
citizens would be arrested for, would be fined or arrested for. 
That is not right.
    This sounds partisan. A lot of the things we say sound 
partisan, but I want to try to be as nonpartisan as I can be 
and just talk about the facts and the data.
    Since 2020, the number of illegal crossings has gone up 
exponentially. We saw it right here in the data that we learned 
today that in 2020, 60,000 people were being apprehended. It is 
10 times that much today.
    The facts are when President Biden came into office, he 
undid every policy that was there that was aimed at securing 
our border and opened up the border. Why he did that, I have no 
idea. I don't see who benefits from that. Mr. Del Cueto, you 
made an excellent point. I don't think this President is going 
to do anything that he is not forced to do, and that is why we 
passed H.R. 2, because Congress wanted to force him to do the 
right thing. That is also why the Senate will not take it up 
and why he would never sign it into law, and it is also why 
anything that he would sign into law would not force him to do 
anything that he doesn't want to do.
    So, we are going to continue fighting for you, we are going 
to continue fighting for our constituents across this country, 
and we are going to continue to make sure that Americans 
control Americans, not Mexican cartels and drug lords and 
despicable people that are controlling it right now.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Tiffany. Yes. Thank you, Chairman Westerman. And just a 
public service announcement, on Sunday down at the Chilton 
Ranch you are welcome to join them. They are going to be 
installing more cameras. Is that correct?
    Mr. Chilton. Sounds correct, sir.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, you are welcome to join them down there as 
they install more cameras down on the ranch.
    OK. I would like to thank all the witnesses for their 
valuable testimony and the Members for their questions. Members 
of the Committee may have some additional questions for our 
witnesses today, and we will ask that they respond to them in 
writing. Under Committee Rule 3, members of the Committee must 
submit questions to the Committee Clerk by 5 p.m. on Tuesday, 
February 13, 2024. The hearing record will be held open for 10 
business days for your responses.
    If there is no further business, without objection, the 
Subcommittee on Federal Lands stands adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 3:59 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

            [ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD]

Submission for the Record by Rep. Tiffany

                           Chilton Ranch LLC

                            Arivaca, Arizona

                                              February 13, 2024    

Hon. Thomas P. Tiffany, Chairman
House Natural Resources Committee
Subcommittee on Federal Lands
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

    Dear Chairman Tiffany:

    Thank you for permitting me to present Testimony at your Committee 
hearing in Sierra Vista, Arizona, February 8, 2024. Recently, a 
reporter called my attention to an answer I provided to your important 
question about the cost to me, a border rancher, resulting from the 
thousands of illegal trespassers crossing through my ranch. A portion 
of my answer included the annual cost of the trespassers was $60,000.

    May I respectfully explain the estimated $60,000 per year cost to 
me:

  1.  Fixing 13.5 miles of surface pipelines cut by unlawful aliens 
            seeking water; these water infrastructure improvements are 
            the only reliable source of water for cattle or wildlife on 
            the entire ranch.

  2.  Picking up trash left by border crossers;

  3.  Cattle dying due to their ingesting of plastic bags discarded by 
            intruders;

  4.  Regularly (roughly every 48 hours) inspecting twenty-four 
            different wells by two cowboys rather than one cowboy due 
            to border safety concerns; and

  5.  Ensuring 32 wildlife and stockwater troughs/float valves have not 
            been damaged by crossers and then repairing the frequently 
            encountered damage.

    Please consider sharing this letter with the Honorable Members of 
the Committee.

    If the international border were secure at the border, I would not 
have the aforementioned costs.

    Thank you for all you do for all of us all of the time.

            Respectfully,

                                                Jim Chilton

                                 [all]