[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                      THE IMPORTANCE OF PROTECTING
                     FEMALE ATHLETICS AND TITLE IX

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH CARE
                         AND FINANCIAL SERVICES

                                 OF THE

                         COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
                           AND ACCOUNTABILITY

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                            DECEMBER 5, 2023
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-79
                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Accountability
  
  
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                       Available on: govinfo.gov
                         oversight.house.gov or
                             docs.house.gov
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
54-311 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2024                               
                             
                             
               COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY

                    JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman

Jim Jordan, Ohio                     Jamie Raskin, Maryland, Ranking 
Mike Turner, Ohio                        Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of 
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina            Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Pete Sessions, Texas                 Ro Khanna, California
Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Jake LaTurner, Kansas                Katie Porter, California
Pat Fallon, Texas                    Cori Bush, Missouri
Byron Donalds, Florida               Shontel Brown, Ohio
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Jimmy Gomez, California
William Timmons, South Carolina      Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Robert Garcia, California
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Maxwell Frost, Florida
Lisa McClain, Michigan               Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Greg Casar, Texas
Russell Fry, South Carolina          Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Dan Goldman, New York
Nick Langworthy, New York            Jared Moskowitz, Florida
Eric Burlison, Missouri              Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Vacancy
Vacancy

                                 ------                                

                       Mark Marin, Staff Director
       Jessica Donlon, Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel
                    Tyler Sanderson, Senior Counsel
      Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5074

                  Julie Tagen, Minority Staff Director

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5051
                                 ------                                

           Subcommittee on Health Care and Financial Services

                   Lisa McClain, Michigan, Chairwoman
Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Katie Porter, California Ranking 
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina            Minority Member
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Russell Fry, South Carolina          Jimmy Gomez, California
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Greg Casar, Texas
Nick Langworthy, New York            Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Eric Burlison, Missouri              Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Vacancy                              Vacancy

                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hearing held on December 5, 2023.................................     1

                               Witnesses

                              ----------                              
Ms. Riley Gaines, Ambassador, Independent Women's Forum, Former 
  University of Kentucky Collegiate Athlete
Oral Statement...................................................     5

Ms. Sarah Parshall Perry, Senior Legal Fellow, Edwin Meese III 
  Center for Legal and Judicial Studies, The Heritage Foundation
Oral Statement...................................................     7

Ms. Kim Russell, Ambassador, Independent Women's Forum, Former 
  Head of Women's Lacrosse Coach, Oberlin College
Oral Statement...................................................    10

Ms. Fatima Goss Graves (Minority Witness), President and CEO, 
  National Women's Law Center
Oral Statement...................................................    12

Written opening statements and statements for the witnesses are 
  available on the U.S. House of Representatives Document 
  Repository at: docs.house.gov.

                           Index of Documents

                              ----------                              

  * Report, NCAA, State of Women in College Sports; submitted by 
  Rep. Casar.

  * Report, WSF Title IX at 50; submitted by Rep. Casar.

  * Athlete Statements for the Record; submitted by Rep. Lee.

  * Statement for Record, NCTE; submitted by Rep. Lee.

  * Report, British Journal of Sports Medicine, ``Effect of 
  Gender Affirming Hormones on Athletic Performance''; submitted 
  by Rep. Lee.

  * Roe v. Utah High School Activities Assn.; submitted by Rep. 
  Lee.

  * Article, Daily Signal, ``School Assigned Girl to Sleep with 
  Boy''; submitted by Rep. McClain.

  * Legal Memo, The Heritage Foundation, ``Dept of Ed Revision of 
  Title IX Fails''; submitted by Rep. McClain.

  * Legal Memo, The Heritage Foundation, ``Once More with 
  Feeling''; submitted by Rep. McClain.

  * Report, IWF, Competition--2nd Edition; submitted by Rep. 
  McClain.

  * Statement for the Record, NCAA; submitted by Rep. McClain.

  * Article, The Advocate, ``Judge Blocks Utah Trans Sport''; 
  submitted by Rep. Takano.

  * Letter, from Gov. Spencer Cox, March 22, 2022; submitted by 
  Rep. Takano.

Documents are available at: docs.house.gov.

 
                      THE IMPORTANCE OF PROTECTING
                     FEMALE ATHLETICS AND TITLE IX

                              ----------                              


                       Tuesday, December 5, 2023

                        House of Representatives

               Committee on Oversight and Accountability

           Subcommittee on Health Care And Financial Services

                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:12 p.m., in 
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Lisa C. McClain 
[Chairwoman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives McClain, Gosar, Foxx, Grothman, 
Fry, Luna, Langworthy, Burlison, Ocasio-Cortez, Casar, Lee, and 
Crockett.
    Also present: Representatives Jordan, Sessions, Burchett, 
Greene, Waltz, LaMalfa, Takano, and Robert Garcia of 
California.
    Mrs. McClain. The hearing of the Subcommittee on Healthcare 
and Financial Services will come to order.
    Welcome, everyone.
    Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any 
time.
    I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening 
statement.
    Wait. One second. Oh, we are missing a witness. We are 
missing a witness.
    [Recess.]
    Mrs. McClain. I am sorry about that.
    I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening 
statement.
    Quite simply, men do not belong in women's sports. Let me 
say it one more time. Men do not belong in women's sports.
    The simple fact that this needs to be said out loud is 
really kind of a sad reflection of where the other side is on 
this issue. There should be no debate about this. However, we 
are here today because the Biden Administration is choosing to 
ignore the truth and, I might add, the science.
    The truth is, is that by allowing biological males to 
compete in women's sports is fundamentally unfair. It is also 
unsafe.
    Scientific evidence--and I will say that again--scientific 
evidence affirms that biological males and females have 
unchangeable physiological differences attributed to their sex. 
Some of these differences benefit male athletes. For example, 
males typically have greater muscle mass, lung capacity, and 
bone density than females.
    All of these characteristics give males a competitive 
advantage over females. This is why women should compete 
against women and men should not compete against them. That is 
what Title IX was designed to protect.
    By allowing biological males to compete in women's sports, 
we are placing our daughters in danger every time they step 
onto the field.
    This hearing is about protecting women, period. That is it. 
I am standing up for the rights of women, children, my 
daughter, your daughter, our granddaughters.
    I am frustrated as I continue to hear about female athletes 
who are injured by biological males competing in women's 
sports.
    I am a mother. I have two daughters. Any parent will tell 
you that their most sacred responsibility is to protect their 
children. And that is what I am trying to do, and that is what 
this hearing is about. That is why today is about protecting 
our daughters, our nieces, and our granddaughters. It is time 
for us to get off the sideline and actually stand up for them.
    Unfortunately, the Biden Administration has shown that it 
is putting leftist policies before women and girls. In a 
fraudulent effort to be inclusive, the Biden Administration is 
sacrificing equality.
    Instead of defending the hard-fought protections that Title 
IX secured--I mean, think of how long we fought for Title IX, 
for equality for women--the Biden Administration has proposed 
two rules that will drastically alter Title IX. The Biden 
Administration's proposed rule redefines ``sex'' to include 
gender identity and expands Title IX protections to biological 
males--protections that were created and implemented for women 
and girls.
    If the Biden Administration is successful, it will mean 
that more women will lose out on academic and athletic 
opportunities that should have been afforded to them under 
Title IX--again, the whole reason we put together Title IX.
    Last year, we celebrated the 50th anniversary of Title IX's 
enactment. For the last 50 years, we have seen Title IX's 
success in securing equality for women across the country. We 
cannot allow this Administration to dismantle the rights and 
protections that women fought so hard to achieve.
    We must protect women and girls. And I encourage my 
colleagues on both sides of the aisle to stay centered on this 
issue throughout the hearing.
    To our panel, thank you, thank you, thank you for being 
here today before the Subcommittee. I am looking forward to 
having this very important discussion with you.
    And I now recognize the Ranking Member, Ms. Lee, for your 
opening statement.
    Ms. Lee?
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    It is disappointing to me that, although the title of this 
hearing implies a much-needed discussion, we are likely going 
to be forced to listen to transphobic bigotry.
    Because, actually, protecting female athletes in Title IX 
is important. Participating in sports provides so many benefits 
to our young people. Those benefits range from improved mental 
and physical health to enriched life skills, such as teamwork 
and goal-setting. In terms of mental health, studies show that 
participating in youth sports is associated with lower rates of 
anxiety and depression, lower amounts of stress, higher self-
esteem and confidence, and reduced risk of suicide.
    So why are my Republican colleagues working so hard to 
prevent our trans youth from participating?
    According to the Human Rights Campaign, in just the first 
143 days of 2023, elected officials across the Nation 
introduced more than 520 anti-LGBTQIA bills in state 
legislature. Twenty-three states banned trans youth from 
participating in school sports consistent with their gender 
identity, with some laws focusing on kids as young as 
kindergarten. How competitive is kindergarten? You all are 
working so hard at excluding and demonizing a bunch of kids.
    I think it is important that we raise the voices of 
transgender athletes, their families, and teammates. I would 
like to read a few of their stories, written in the first 
person, the first from CeCe Telfer, a professional track 
athlete, model, and advocate.
    ``I was a former D2 national champion in the 400-meter 
hurdles, and I am now a professional athlete training to make 
it on the Team USA and represent them in the following Olympics 
to come. Sports have given me a plethora of things, but mainly 
sports have given me strength, taught me how to overcome fear 
and stand up when defeated. Sports have given me collaborative 
skills that was developed throughout the years of being an 
athlete and having teammates. Sports taught me how to stay 
focused and committed, along with the necessary skills that 
sports has taught me in giving me clarity and freedom.
    ``Transgender women and girls, transgender people, are not 
a threat. We do not play sports to cheat. We deserve the rights 
as any other women, because that is what we are. There are 
rules and regulations that define our ability to compete.
    ``The narrative that builds on myself and trans kids in the 
community is negative and dehumanizing. It feels as though 
people do not want us to exist. And in order to change the 
narrative--because we do exist, and we are not going to stop 
existing--we need to stop these anti-trans bills. They are 
dehumanizing, and kids are dying.
    ``Instead, I believe the government should step up and 
support trans people on all levels to show that we are seen and 
have rights and are people just like everybody else.''
    From Ember, a transgender female high school softball 
player: ``When I was younger, I played co-ed baseball. I loved 
it. When the teams became single-sex, I no longer fit in. I was 
teased and ostracized, though the most difficult part was not 
feeling like myself, so I quit.
    ``I came out as trans in seventh grade and wanted to play 
softball, but my state requires trans girls to take hormones 
for a year before they can play a sport. So, I waited for 3 
years. During that time, I became self-conscious, uncomfortable 
with my body, and lost all of my confidence. I was diagnosed 
with depression and anxiety.
    ``I was finally approved to play on a girls' team in the 
spring of my sophomore year of high school. Playing on a girls' 
team has been an incredible experience for me. I have made so 
many friends and improved so much, despite starting so late.
    ``My teammates treat me just like everyone else on the 
team. So do my coaches. My team is part of my family. We are 
all so different and come from different cliques, but when we 
are together on the field, we are there for each other no 
matter what. Every kid should be lucky enough to have this 
experience.''
    And from Debbie Jackson, a parent of a non-binary teen: 
``My child, Avery, is now 15 years old. Avery does not even 
remember what it was like to be viewed as a boy. We affirmed 
who they are at a young age and supported their social 
transition before kindergarten.
    ``During that time, Avery was in a co-ed trampoline class 
at a local gym. The gymnastics classes at the gym were divided 
by gender, and as we began referring to Avery as our daughter, 
Avery asked to move into gymnastics. It was one additional step 
toward being affirmed and accepted authentically.
    ``To this day, some of my favorite photos and videos are 
from the first day of that class, when Avery marched so 
confidently onto the mat, with a barely grown-out traditional 
boyish haircut, next to a gaggle of other girls, with their 
bouncy ponytails. Avery enthusiastically followed every word of 
the coach, trying forward rolls and falling off the balance 
beam with every step--literally, every step. Avery was the most 
gloriously awkward, non-athletic creature I have ever 
witnessed.
    ``I can safely tell you that Avery is still a gloriously 
awkward, non-athletic creature who will never win in any 
athletic endeavor. But participating in sports is not about 
winning. Playing sports helps with mental health, teaches 
teamwork, provides camaraderie with others, and teaches 
discipline and goal-setting. It opens doors to friendship, 
connection, and community with others. That is what my child 
experienced in that gymnastics class, and other trans kids 
deserve to experience all of those benefits too.
    ``I am so thankful that Avery did not have to choose 
between not participating in sports or being forced to 
participate as a boy. Forcing a transgender child to choose 
between living an authentic life and playing a game is cruel.
    ``Think about how it would feel to have your body openly 
discussed by others or have the fairness of your existence and 
basic rights debated in a public forum. That is what you are 
doing to innocent kids. Please leave our kids alone. They 
deserve so much better from people in power.''
    I want to thank these people for sharing their stories and 
reminding us that this is about children and daughters and sons 
and siblings and friends. These are real people with real 
experiences who deserve to feel loved and included.
    I would ask unanimous consent to enter these letters to the 
Committee from transgender athletes provided by the National 
Center for Transgender Equality.
    Mrs. McClain. Without objection, so ordered.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you.
    Sports are a vital aspect of education that offers 
important lessons. Athletics allows young people from diverse 
backgrounds to engage in healthy movement and play, learn how 
to work as a team, and form meaningful connections.
    Madam Chair, I ask that while we sit through this hearing 
and hear the hateful misinformation I am sure is going to come 
our way, let us not forget that children are at the core of 
this issue.
    I yield back.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Ms. Lee.
    I will now recognize our witnesses for today.
    Ms. Riley Gaines is a former collegiate athlete for the 
University of Kentucky and now serves as an ambassador for the 
Independent Women's Voice.
    Welcome.
    Ms. Sarah Parshall Perry is the senior legal fellow in the 
Edwin Meese III Center for Legal and Judicial Studies at the 
Heritage Foundation. She is also a former senior counsel to the 
Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of 
Education.
    Ms. Kim Russell is the former head women's lacrosse coach 
at Oberlin College and now serves as an ambassador for the 
Independent Women's Forum.
    And, finally, Ms. Fatima Goss Graves is the President and 
CEO of the National Women's Law Center.
    Welcome, and thank you again for all being here.
    Pursuant to the Committee Rule 9(g), the witnesses will 
please stand and raise their right hands.
    Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you 
are about to give in this is the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
    Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the 
affirmative.
    Thank you. You may all take a seat.
    So, again, I now recognize myself--the witnesses--excuse 
me--I now recognize the witnesses for an opening statement.
    Let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written 
statement, and we will have it appear in full in the hearing 
record. Please limit your oral statements to 5 minutes.
    As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in 
front of you so that it is on, and the Members can hear you. 
You will begin to speak. The light in front of you will turn 
green. After 4 minutes, the light will turn yellow. Then the 
red light will come on; your 5 minutes has expired, and we 
would ask you to please wrap up.
    I now recognize Ms. Gaines for her opening statement.

                       STATEMENT OF RILEY GAINES

                               AMBASSADOR

                       INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S VOICE

                       FORMER COLLEGIATE ATHLETE

    Ms. Gaines. Thank you. My name is Riley Gaines, and I am an 
ambassador for Independent Women's Voice. And I am here today 
to urge you to protect women's sports and uphold the original 
intent of Title IX.
    My story is by now well-known. I was a student at 
University of Kentucky, where I was also a member of the 
women's swim team, finishing my collegiate career as a 12-time 
NCAA All-American, a 5-time SEC champion--still the SEC record-
holder in the 200 butterfly, making me one of the fastest 
Americans of all time.
    In March 2022, female swimmers from around the country and 
I were forced to compete at NCAAs against Lia, formerly Will, 
Thomas. We watched as this male swam to a women's national 
title, beating out the most impressive and accomplished female 
swimmers in the Nation, including Olympians and American 
record-holders.
    Despite tying, down to the hundredth, with Thomas in the 
200 freestyle, I was denied the trophy, because the NCAA 
claimed it was necessary for Thomas to hold the trophy when 
photos were being taken. It was clear to me, my teammates, and 
my competitors that they had reduced everything we had worked 
our entire lives for down to a photo op to validate the 
feelings and the identity of a male.
    But that is not all. In addition to losing out on 
opportunities to Thomas, we also had to share a locker room and 
change in front of this 6-foot-4, fully intact, naked male. And 
as I have testified previously, we were not forewarned of this 
arrangement, we were not asked for our consent, and we did not 
give our consent to this exposure and to be exploited.
    Unfortunately, Thomas was not a one-off. Across the country 
and in various sports, males are entering women's athletic 
competitions, being given spots on women's teams, and being 
granted entry to our locker rooms. There are numerous 
documented instances of males competing, not just in women's 
swimming, but also in women's track, cross-country, basketball, 
volleyball, field hockey, and other sports at all levels of 
competition.
    This issue is incredibly underreported for various reasons, 
but commonsense Americans know intuitively, this is not fair to 
women.
    And science, of course, supports that instinct. In fact, 
studies consistently show males have about a 10-to 12-percent 
athletic advantage over females. This gap is evident in almost 
every sport and at every level of competition.
    Yes, hormone therapy can narrow this gap, but it cannot 
close it. And studies consistently demonstrate that surgery and 
testosterone suppression do not reduce male athletic 
performance to normal female levels.
    Take Thomas, for example. He was mediocre against the men, 
at best, ranking 400ths and 500ths nationally, then dominating 
all of the women in the entire country--by body lengths, might 
I add--in a matter of a year.
    Not only do women have to worry about losing opportunities 
and being exploited in locker rooms, allowing men into women's 
sports also puts girls at greater risk of injury.
    In September of last year, North Carolina high school 
volleyball player Payton McNabb suffered serious injury after a 
trans-identified male player spiked a ball at her head, 
rendering her unconscious. Payton experienced extensive trauma 
to her head and neck and long-term concussion symptoms. Still 
to this day, a year and 3-ish months later, she is still 
partially paralyzed on her right side, her vision is impaired, 
her memory is impaired, and she is not playing college sports 
like she had dreamed of for herself.
    Just a few weeks in Massachusetts, a male player on the 
Swampscott High School field hockey women's team injured an 
opposing player with a shot to the face, sending the female 
athlete to the hospital with significant facial and dental 
injuries.
    Injuries, of course, can and do happen when females are 
playing against other females. But allowing men to play women's 
sports increases the likelihood and severity of such injuries. 
That is one of the reasons why, for 50 years, Federal Title IX 
regulations have allowed schools to offer separate teams for 
women and men when the sports are contact sports or involve 
competitive skill.
    In April 2023, the Department of Education proposed a rule 
that, if adopted, would reverse this presumption. Under the 
proposed rule, women's sports are not just for women, they are 
for anyone who simply says they are a woman, unless a 
particular school can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the 
Department of Education that keeping a particular team female 
meets important educational objectives.
    The new rule mandates that every school in the country must 
demonstrate the unfairness of male participation on each 
specific women's team that they offer and develop rules that 
minimize harm to trans-identified athletes.
    But what about the harm to us? Who is working to minimize 
the harm done to female athletes?
    Let me be perfectly clear: A school that knowingly allows a 
male athlete to take a spot on a women's team or allows a male 
athlete to take the field in a women's game is denying a female 
student athletic opportunity. And that is sex-based 
discrimination, and it violates Title IX, regardless of what 
the new regulations might say.
    It is my sincere hope that Members of this Committee will 
take action to stop the Biden Administration's illegal and 
administrative rewrite of Title IX.
    Of course, there is a place for everyone--regardless of 
gender identity, regardless of sexual orientation, regardless 
of race or what sports you play, there is a place for everyone 
to play sports in this country. But unsafe, unfair, and 
discriminatory practices toward women must stop. Inclusion 
cannot be prioritized over safety and fairness.
    And, Ranking Member Lee, if my testimony makes me 
transphobic, then I believe your opening monologue makes you a 
misogynist.
    Thank you.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Ms. Gaines.
    I now recognize Ms. Parshall Perry for her opening 
statement.

                   STATEMENT OF SARAH PARSHALL PERRY

                          SENIOR LEGAL FELLOW

                    EDWIN MEESE III CENTER FOR LEGAL

                          AND JUDICIAL STUDIES

                          HERITAGE FOUNDATION

    Ms. Parshall Perry. Good afternoon, Chairwoman McClain, 
Ranking Member Lee, and distinguished Members of the 
Subcommittee. My name is Sarah Parshall Perry. I am a senior 
legal fellow at the Heritage Foundation.
    As a former varsity athlete, the mother of a girls' varsity 
athlete, and former senior counsel for civil rights at the 
Department of Education, I have, as the saying goes----
    Ms. Lee. Madam Chair, excuse me. I move to have the 
gentlewoman's words taken down.
    Mrs. McClain. The Committee will suspend.
    Ms. Lee. Madam Chair, she is engaging in personalities.
    Ms. Gaines. Could I just ask how it is fair to be called 
transphobic?
    Ms. Lee. No one called you anything.
    Ms. Greene. I would say men disguising themselves as women 
are engaging in personalities.
    Ms. Lee. Order----
    Mrs. McClain. Hang on, hang on, hang on. Order, order. Let 
us get a ruling.
    Ms. Lee. OK. I move to withdraw the point of order.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Ms. Lee.
    I now recognize Ms. Parshall Perry for her opening 
statement. We can start over. Thank you.

                   STATEMENT OF SARAH PARSHALL PERRY

                          SENIOR LEGAL FELLOW

                    EDWIN MEESE III CENTER FOR LEGAL

                          AND JUDICIAL STUDIES

                          HERITAGE FOUNDATION

    Ms. Parshall Perry. Chairwoman McClain, Ranking Member Lee, 
and distinguished Members of the Subcommittee, my name is Sarah 
Parshall Perry. I am a senior legal fellow at the Heritage 
Foundation.
    As a former varsity athlete, the mother of a girls' varsity 
athlete, and former senior counsel for civil rights at 
Department of Education, I have, as the saying goes, skin in 
this game.
    What we are discussing today is an athletic scandal, a 
fraud of unprecedented proportions perpetrated by the Federal 
Government on American students. It turns obvious distinctions 
between the sexes into nothing more than the myths of a bygone 
era, while expecting female athletes to simply look the other 
way.
    In education, one law should stand as a bulwark against sex 
discrimination, as it has for the 50 years since its inception. 
And yet the Department's rulemaking on Title IX purports to 
provide for the participation of men in women's sports, 
rendering the sex discrimination of old new again.
    Title IX made possible opportunities for women historically 
excluded from higher education athletics, graduate school 
scholarships, and more. Because of the law, the rate of girls' 
participation in high school athletics is now 1,000 percent 
higher. Girls now constitute over 56 percent of American 
college students and 42 percent of high school athletes. And 94 
percent of female executives played scholastic sports.
    Title IX was the crowning achievement of the feminist 
movement, its origins incontrovertibly in women's liberation, 
spurred by statements made by the judge famously who proclaimed 
in 1971, ``Athletic competition builds character in our boys. 
We do not need that kind of character in our girls.'' And yet, 
by threatening to gut Title IX's guarantee of equality, the 
Department is on the cusp of perpetuating just this type of 
regressive thinking.
    There are two rules at issue, the latter of which governs 
criteria for athletics--between athletic interests of women and 
transgender-identified men--the Department has called the rule 
of compromise. But a compromise it most definitely is not. 
Instead, it is a self-refuting tangle of considerations, a 
bureaucratic nightmare for any educational institution to which 
it applies. It does not clarify Title IX's sex-based criteria 
in sports; it complicates it.
    It departs from decades of Title IX's application to 
athletics, obscures the plain text of the longstanding 
athletics regulation with vague terms, an unworkable standard, 
and the guaranteed conflict with the contrary laws of 23 
states. It balances the equities against the women and girls 
who were at the heart of Title IX's passage and, impressively, 
does all this while violating constitutional civil rights and 
administrative law.
    The coup de grace? There is a reason to argue that the 
Department even lacks the authority to promulgate an athletics 
regulation in the first place.
    Then there is the rule's refusal to acknowledge obvious 
sex-based competitive advantages to sport. Males have greater 
lung capacity, larger hearts, more bone density, more muscle 
mass, they jump higher, throw further, run faster, accelerate 
quicker, and punch harder than females. And this gap emerges as 
early as the age of 12, when males experience a twentyfold 
boost in testosterone.
    Title IX and its implementing regulations contain a set of 
limited sex-affirmative exceptions allowing schools to take sex 
into account, and a sex binary--male versus female--is the 
foundation upon which the entire statute rests. Its use of the 
words ``both'' and ``either'' reinforces this longstanding 
understanding.
    Even the Supreme Court's determination in Bostock v. 
Clayton County that sex discrimination in employment also 
includes discrimination based on sexual orientation and 
transgender status does nothing to change that, nor did the 
Supreme Court intend to.
    When biological boys are glibly classified as girls, the 
feminist gains of the past 50 years are eviscerated. Womanhood 
cannot be achieved by puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones, 
and it deserves the continued protection of Title IX.
    I urge this chamber not to rewind the clock on women's 
progress but, rather, hold fast to the principles of equality. 
The future of women's sports depends on it.
    If a self-declaration of womanhood and hormones are 
sufficient to open women's sports to men, what, after all, was 
the point of the women's liberation movement?
    I welcome your questions.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Ms. Parshall Perry.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Russell for her opening 
statements.

                        STATEMENT OF KIM RUSSELL

                               AMBASSADOR

                       INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM

                   FORMER HEAD WOMEN'S LACROSSE COACH

                            OBERLIN COLLEGE

    Ms. Russell. Thank you all for being here.
    I am Kim Russell, an ambassador for the Independent Women's 
Forum.
    Why am I here? I am 56 years old. I am an athlete, a coach, 
a mother, and a teacher and a longtime advocate for women and 
girls. This has been my life and my passion. I played two 
sports at the D1 level that never would have been possible 
without Title IX. I have been a lacrosse coach for over 27 
years. I am in three halls of fame for coaching and 
contributing to the growth of lacrosse, and there is actually 
an award in my name.
    Oberlin College removed me from coaching and offered me an 
administrative position after I chose to publicly tell my story 
and refused to be silent or back down about my belief that men, 
no matter how they self-identify, should not be allowed to 
compete in women's sports.
    I joined Oberlin College in 2018 as the head women's 
lacrosse coach and a wellness instructor. I have always been 
pro-woman, then and now.
    Over the course of my coaching career, I have been a mentor 
to many women and girls, sharing advice both on and off the 
field. My athletes, including several who have identified as 
transgender, have always known they can come to me to laugh, to 
cry, or anything in between.
    I have been nicknamed the ``hippie love coach,'' not only 
because I am a yoga instructor--I am usually barefoot; these 
shoes are not my typical wear--I read energy and coach 
intuitively, but because I have given countless individuals a 
safe space to thrive and feel a sense of belonging.
    In March 2022, I had been following the story of Lia Thomas 
and kept thinking someone would speak up. How could a 
biological male be allowed to compete with women, regardless of 
a hormone-blocking regime? I was flabbergasted that coaches, 
parents, administrators, and athletes were OK with this.
    After Thomas won, I reposted an Instagram post on my 
personal story that said, ``Congratulations to Emma Weyant, the 
real woman who won the NCAA 500-yard freestyle.'' I added my 
own short commentary: ``What do you believe? I cannot be quiet 
on this. I have spent my entire life playing sports, coaching, 
and starting sports programs for girls and women.''
    Turns out, it was more controversial than I could have ever 
anticipated. Based on this simple post, I was called 
transgressive, transphobic, and unsafe.
    I was told to write letters of apology to my team and the 
athletic department because of the unrest and disruption I had 
caused. I could not apologize for something that I am not sorry 
for. I would not and will not apologize for saying a biological 
male does not belong in women's sports and private spaces.
    As an athlete and coach for nearly my entire life, I am 
personally familiar with the distinct differences between male 
and female athletes. I gave birth to four kids. I ran the 
sidelines nursing a child while I coached in the state 
championships, and I have had another child on my back at the 
same time.
    After I refused to apologize, I was called in for a meeting 
of my team with a mediator present. A handful of the student 
athletes on my team attacked and vilified me as if I were the 
enemy and had just killed someone.
    A week later, there was another meeting with my team and 
three college administrators. For 1 hour and 42 minutes, the 
same athletes who I had treated like my own kids bashed me over 
and over again in front of the administrators simply for having 
a pro-woman perspective that was different from theirs.
    I had to stay quiet and repeat back everything they said 
and confirm that I had heard their concerns. At the end of the 
meeting, I was given the chance to respond, at which point I 
knew whatever I said would land on deaf ears.
    I was called into the AD's office after the season ended 
and handed a letter. At the bottom, it said, ``This letter is 
intended to help you understand and appreciate the impact of 
your actions and the need for you to immediately modify your 
behavior.'' I asked Oberlin to provide me with a written letter 
on what I had done wrong and how I could improve my behavior 
but was never provided any clarity.
    When I arrived at Oberlin in 2018, I was so excited to be 
part of a community that celebrates free spirit, open-minded 
dialog, freedom of speech, and freedom of expression. I am the 
hippie love coach. I thought I was home. But Oberlin, like many 
higher-level institutions today, only seems to support the 
First Amendment if your values align with theirs.
    Most people have chosen to stay silent in this topic 
because the consequences seem too great--loss of a job, 
reputation, friends, or family, you name it. I am here, in 
part, to speak for them. I will never apologize for believing 
that women and girls should have the right to single-sex 
competition, a right for which women before me fought 
tirelessly. I am hoping that my speaking up will give others 
the courage to do the same.
    I am here hoping to ensure that you understand the 
ramifications of the Biden Administration's proposed regulation 
and that you will each do your job to ensure that the original 
meaning of Title IX is upheld. It was passed when I was 5. I 
have reaped the benefits, and my life's journey continues to be 
massively impacted.
    The Biden Administration is trying to effectively change 
the meaning and language of Title IX. If allowed, this will 
endanger women in sports and private spaces, take away 
opportunities from women in sports and academia.
    Never in a million years did I think I would be sitting 
here at 56 fighting to get back the rights that were given to 
women and girls 51 years ago.
    Since March 2022, many more biological males have invaded 
women's and girls' sports. There have been life-changing 
injuries, opportunities lost, and privacy has been invaded. We 
are harming women and girls.
    You have the opportunity to be heroes. This is about 
upholding truth, protecting the dreams of female athletes, and 
the original meaning of Title IX.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Ms. Russell.
    The Chair next recognizes Ms. Goss Graves.
    Thank you, ma'am.

                    STATEMENT OF FATIMA GOSS GRAVES

                           PRESIDENT AND CEO

                      NATIONAL WOMEN'S LAW CENTER

    Ms. Goss Graves. Thank you, Chairwoman McClain, Ranking 
Member Lee, and Members of the Subcommittee for the opportunity 
to testify today. My name is Fatima Goss Graves, and I am 
President and CEO of the National Women's Law Center.
    The National Women's Law Center was founded the same year 
that Title IX was passed and has worked to remove barriers for 
women and girls throughout the course of their lives throughout 
our founding.
    And since I have had the great honor to engage in this 
critical work, including as an advocate for women and girls in 
school and in sports--in fact, my first Title IX matter was 
more than 15 years ago, where we worked to successfully secure 
equal facilities for girls in a school district in Maryland.
    And over the last 50 years, Title IX has dramatically 
advanced women and girls' participation in school sports. High 
school girls have 3 million more opportunities to play today 
than they did before Title IX, and 44 percent of NCAA athletes 
today are now women, compared to only 15 percent before Title 
IX.
    But significant barriers to gender equity in sport persist. 
Women and girls have over 1 million fewer opportunities to play 
in high school than boys. Some schools still treat girls' and 
women's teams as afterthoughts. We hear complaints of uniforms 
and equipment that are essentially second-class. They are not 
afforded the same level of publicity to showcase their many 
talents. And women in professional sports consistently complain 
about gender bias in pay.
    And we have all learned of case after case of sexual abuse 
against student athletes, where schools overlooked the 
deplorable conduct by coaches and athletic trainers and school 
doctors.
    These barriers to gender equity in sports are well-
documented and they are pervasive.
    Yet none of that is the subject of the hearing today. And 
so, today is really about attacking and dehumanizing 
transgender people and especially trans women and girls.
    And even though trans youth are not responsible for any of 
the problems in sport that I have named, and still we have seen 
at least 24 states who have been racing to move to ban trans 
students from women and girls' sports teams, falsely claiming 
they are protecting women's sports. That is just not true.
    We know from data collected from between 2008 and 2019 that 
including trans student athletes correlates with increased 
participation by all girls. In contrast, girls' overall 
participation in high school sports declined in states that 
enacted trans-exclusionary policies.
    So, let me put it really plainly: Excluding women and girls 
who are trans hurts all women and girls.
    The irony is, this debate about including trans women and 
girls in sports should sound familiar to anyone who has tracked 
the evolution of Title IX over the last five decades, because 
at its root are sexist stereotypes that equate femininity with 
being slower and weaker and likely unathletic.
    Athletes come in all shapes and sizes. And written 
enforcement of who is a woman is dangerous and only encourages 
further discrimination. It invites the sort of gender policing 
that could subject any woman to accusations of being too 
masculine or too good or not a real enough woman to 
participate.
    The reality is that, like their peers, trans girls and 
women, they sometimes lose at sports, and sometimes they win. 
And success in school sports depends on a whole range of 
factors, including how hard you work and coaching and access to 
really good resources and facilities.
    And trans students participate in sports for the same 
reason, as they are kids, because it is fun, because it creates 
belonging and community, because it teaches so much about 
persistence and leadership and discipline--unless they learn to 
lose gracefully, hopefully. And often they learn to win with 
dignity, hopefully. They learn to do the sort of work that 
means you have higher grades and stay connected to school. I 
want every kid to have that chance, to have the chance to play.
    So, I feel compelled to just end my testimony with a few 
ideas for the Committee to pursue if it really wants to work on 
this issue.
    We could make it safer for student athletes who report 
harassment and sexual misconduct. We could address resource 
disparities in sports. We could protect access to healthcare, 
including gender-affirming and reproductive healthcare. Pay, 
promotions, dealing with the caregiving crisis in this 
country--all of that could be your agenda.
    Thank you for having me today.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Ms. Goss Graves.
    I would just like to remind everybody of the title of the 
hearing, since it is my hearing. And the title of the hearing 
is ``The Importance of Protecting Female Athletes and Title 
IX.'' I am for protecting women. We fought very, very long and 
very hard to protect women.
    So, I just want to be clear, there is not a hidden agenda. 
It is actually to protect women in women's sports. So, since it 
is my hearing, I just wanted to clarify, that is my agenda.
    With that, without objection, Representative Jordan of 
Ohio, Representative Sessions of Texas, Representative Greene 
of Georgia, Representative Boebert of Colorado, Representative 
Burchett of Tennessee, Representatives Waltz of Florida, 
Representative LaMalfa of California, and Representative Garcia 
of California are waived on to the Subcommittee for the purpose 
of questioning the witnesses at today's Subcommittee hearing.
    I ask unanimous consent to enter five statements into the 
record: a legal memorandum by Ms. Sarah Parshall Perry titled 
``The Department of Education's Intended Revision of Title IX 
Fails Regulatory and Civil Rights Analysis''; a second legal 
memorandum by Ms. Sarah Parshall Perry, titled ``Once More With 
Feeling: Department of Education Releases Second Title IX 
Rule--and Fails Again''; a report from the Independent Women's 
Forum and the Independent Women's Law Center titled 
``Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat 
to Women's Sports''; an article from The Daily Signal titled 
``Exclusive: School Assigned Girl to Sleep with Boy Who 
Identifies as Trans Without Parental Notification''; and a 
statement for the record submitted by the NCAA on December 4, 
2023.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    The Chair now recognizes Chairman Comer.
    Mr. Comer. All right. Thank you, Madam Chair, for holding 
this hearing, protecting female sports and Title IX.
    As a Kentuckian, when I think about great Kentucky female 
athletes, our witness Riley Gaines is the first name that pops 
out.
    And, Riley, on behalf of every great Kentucky Wildcat fan 
in the Commonwealth of Kentucky, we thank you for how well you 
represented Kentucky on the national level and for your 
advocacy today in being a leading voice in protecting women's 
sports.
    Ms. Gaines, has Title IX had a positive impact on your 
access to athletic and academic opportunities?
    Ms. Gaines. Of course it has. I would not have been able to 
achieve what I achieved without Title IX and without the 
women's sporting category.
    Of course, it has developed me into the leader that I am 
today. It has given me the confidence to stand before this 
Committee and the security to stand firm in my belief that men 
should not be playing in women's sports.
    Mr. Comer. I know we had a witness that suggested that, 
because you worked so hard all your life to be the best--I 
mean, you were the best in female swimming; there is no 
question about that. And to have to lose or share a title with 
a biological male--you know, we had a witness on the panel 
suggest you should have just lost gracefully. I mean, I think 
that is a slap in the face to any athlete who worked so hard.
    I mean, I was a below-mediocre basketball player on my high 
school basketball team, and I cannot imagine the work that you 
put in--that any great athlete, male or female, puts in. And I 
do not think you should lose gracefully. I think you should do 
exactly what you have been doing.
    You are a class act. And you have been a leader. You have 
told your story. Many of us on this side of the aisle have 
heard your story many times, and we respect what you are doing, 
and we stand with you. I just want you to know that.
    Ms. Gaines. Well, I appreciate that a whole lot.
    And just for the record, I have certainly lost gracefully 
many times in my career. Even speaking to the incident of 
Thomas and I at the national championships, we tied for fifth--
granted, fifth in the entire Nation, so it is still an 
incredible achievement, but there were four women who beat me. 
And I am incredibly proud of those women who beat me.
    So, I certainly can and have lost gracefully many times in 
my career.
    Mr. Comer. I lose gracefully a lot on the golf course. Not 
really. But I lose a lot on the golf course.
    Coach Russell, if the Biden Administration successfully 
redefines Title IX to include gender identity, are you 
concerned that young women will miss out on the athletic and 
academic opportunities that would be afforded to them?
    Ms. Russell. Absolutely. So, not only would biological 
males be able to take the positions on teams away from females, 
that includes then scholarship money at different levels; it 
includes awards at different levels; it includes now NIL money, 
so sponsorship money. It is not just a one-off. There are many 
different levels that that will hit, yes.
    Mr. Comer. Well, Madam Chair, before I yield back, I just 
want to thank our witnesses who are here today advocating for 
female sports and Title IX. This is a great hearing.
    And we look forward to working with you to--as a Majority--
to protect women's sports and Title IX moving forward.
    With that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Lee from Pennsylvania for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I must say I am surprised to hear that my Republican 
colleagues care so much about protecting the, quote, ``safety, 
privacy, and opportunities of women,'' since their voting 
record and priorities this Congress shows the opposite.
    A report released last year in conjunction with the 50th 
anniversary of Title IX found that men's athletic programs 
received more than twice as many resources as women's programs 
in 2020 and that expenditures for recruiting and compensating 
head coaches and assistant coaches favored male athletes nearly 
three to one.
    Yet the 2024 appropriations bill did nothing to expand 
access for women in sports. It did, however, contain a rider to 
prevent the proposed Department of Education rule relating to 
transgender athletes' ability to participate in sports.
    Ms. Goss Graves, to your knowledge, do any of the bans 
preventing transgender students from participating in sports 
increase funding for women's sports?
    Ms. Goss Graves. No, they do not.
    Ms. Lee. Do any of these bans improve playing fields or 
increase the number of women's teams?
    Ms. Goss Graves. Absolutely not.
    Ms. Lee. Do any of these bans provide resources to expand 
recreational sports opportunities for low-income female 
athletes?
    Ms. Goss Graves. No.
    Ms. Lee. While this Committee purports to care about the 
safety of women, in 2021, when the House voted to reauthorize 
the Violence Against Women Act, 80 percent of the Republican 
caucus voted against that law. Not a single Republican Member 
of this Committee, nor our current Speaker, voted for it.
    That bill included a provision to close the boyfriend 
loophole. Currently, people convicted of domestic violence 
against a spouse cannot purchase a firearm, but nothing 
prevents a boyfriend from acquiring one.
    Ms. Goss Graves, unlike gun violence, where the data is 
clear, is there any evidence that allowing transgender athletes 
to participate in sports presents a safety concern for women?
    Ms. Goss Graves. Absolutely not.
    Ms. Lee. Because my Republican colleagues also claim to be 
concerned about women's privacy and opportunities, let us also 
discuss the Women's Health Protection Act, which passed in the 
House last year and would protect and expand access to abortion 
care. Not a single Republican voted for this law.
    The right to abortion is rooted directly in the right to 
privacy. And research has repeatedly shown that the ability to 
access abortion corresponds with greater economic opportunities 
for women.
    Ms. Goss Graves, is there any reason to believe that 
allowing transgender young people to participate in sports 
threatens women's privacy or employment or economic 
opportunities?
    Ms. Goss Graves. None of those things are threatened by the 
participation of transgender individuals in sports.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you.
    In fact, is not there a risk that banning transgender 
athletes could lead to privacy violations, either through 
requiring documentation or invasive examinations?
    Ms. Goss Graves. There is a deep worry there. And some 
states have passed that sort of sex verification law, which 
would subject all women and girls to those sorts of 
examinations.
    Ms. Lee. Ms. Goss Graves, what should we actually focus on 
if we want to protect opportunities for women in sports?
    Ms. Goss Graves. There is an opportunity right now to 
promote further resources to address sexual abuse that is 
happening in sports; to provide the sort of resources that mean 
more kids have an opportunity to play; and to advocate that the 
Biden Administration finalize this rule that has been waiting 
for so long. That is where we are.
    Ms. Lee. We have seen these same misguided arguments 
before, rooted in false stereotypes, when athletes of color 
tried to integrate White sports leagues, who were accused of 
taking away opportunities from White athletes.
    Black women in sports, whether they are cis, trans, or 
intersex, constantly encounter shifting roles and expectations 
as a reprimand for their success. They are accused of doping or 
cheating in order to win. People make cruel remarks about their 
perceived femininity and create racist depictions of their 
physicality--all in attempts to discourage and exclude them 
from competing and ultimately to keep them from winning. They 
were wrong then, and they are wrong now.
    I am offended to see hatred and bigotry wrapped up in faux 
concerns about women and girls. We are talking about children 
wanting to play sports, wanting to feel included and accepted.
    I would like to quote the Republican Governor from Utah, 
Governor Cox's veto message, who said, quote, ``Rarely has so 
much fear and anger been directed at so few. I do not 
understand what they are going through or why they feel the way 
they do, but I want them to live.''
    I yield back.
    Mrs. McClain. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Gaines, why is it patently unfair to allow biological 
males to compete in women's sports?
    Ms. Gaines. I mean, look at what has happened, I mean, even 
if you just look at the examples recently. We do not see 
females entering into men's sports and dominating. This is only 
happening one way, and with that way being males entering into 
women's sports and dominating.
    Of course, I could get into the science of it. I mentioned 
the athletic gap in my testimony, which is consistent among 
sports, specifically sports where there is a time, an objective 
time, like swimming or track and field. It tends to be 10 to 12 
percent across the board.
    You look at things like wingspan or height or lung capacity 
or the size of the heart, which does not change with hormone 
suppression. And, again, of course, going through puberty, 
those effects are irreversible.
    Mrs. McClain. So, you are actually telling us to follow the 
science?
    Ms. Gaines. That is true.
    Mrs. McClain. Second question. I know that you have been 
active in working with Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority in Wyoming. 
Can you explain what is going on there and why it is so 
important that sororities remain female-only?
    Ms. Gaines. Absolutely. Which is a part of, of course, this 
Title IX rewrite. It is a lot broader than just women's sports, 
and sororities are a part of it.
    What those girls at University of Wyoming are going 
through--and I know this because I talk to them daily. They 
just refiled their lawsuit this morning. What they are going 
through is nothing short of--I mean, it is perverse, allowing a 
male into their sorority house, watching them as they shower 
and undress, walking around--in the vein of being explicit 
here, but, again, true--walking around erect in their sorority 
house, asking them uncomfortable questions about what 
undergarments they wear, about their breasts.
    That is violating for any young girl, especially a college-
age young girl, who was promised sisterhood, mind you. Granted, 
these girls got the brother they never wanted.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    Ms. Parshall Perry, the Biden Administration has claimed 
that their April 13, 2023, proposed rule governing Title IX and 
athletics will bring clarity. Is that true?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. Well, it was not until this 
Administration where the definition of ``sex'' was ever 
anything other than clear. And, in fact, the entire structure 
of Title IX is built on a sex binary.
    The purpose of regulatory law in the Administrative 
Procedure Act is to let the Federal Government contain and work 
on rules that clarify anything that might be perceived to be 
ambiguous. The previous Administration had already released a 
Title IX rule in 2020 making very clear certain guidelines on 
sexual harassment and sexual assault, and until this 
Administration, there was no ambiguity whatsoever.
    Mrs. McClain. And what harm will come to our female 
athletes by redefining ``sex'' in Title IX to include gender 
identity?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. It is hard to quantity the market 
impacts of the individual girls who are suddenly divested of 
the opportunities to achieve scholarships, play on athletic 
teams, to pursue the classes that they want, to ultimately--
because we know there is a connection between success on the 
field and success later in life. These are individuals who are 
not only going to suffer those particular direct impacts, they 
will bear the brunt.
    In addition, there is going to be a market relationship 
fallout we have yet to even begin to quantity.
    Mrs. McClain. And that--to women and girls?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. Yes, absolutely.
    Mrs. McClain. OK.
    Let me, real quickly--Ms. Russell, can you speak to your 
experiences with cancel culture and the treatment you received 
at Oberlin College because you stood up for women?
    Ms. Russell. My own children just say, ``Mama, you have 
been canceled twice.''
    Yes. I would say I went into Oberlin as a fairly liberal 
person. I still love everyone and support everyone, no matter 
who you want to be, what you want to--who you want to decide 
you want to present as.
    There are extreme differences in the biology of men and 
women. I have experienced it as an athlete and a coach and a 
parent. As an athlete, I chose to play co-ed field hockey as an 
adult. My worst injury I have ever had came from that. A man 
fell on top of me when I fell this way. I am 5'4'', maybe 120 
pounds soaking wet. I have not ever been bigger except when I 
was pregnant. When he fell on me, two of my ribs popped off of 
my sternum. Those are the kind of injuries.
    And what happened to Payton McNabb has recently happened to 
another high school athlete in California whose dad is too 
afraid to say anything. And this cancel culture--what has 
happened is kids are too afraid to say anything. Parents are 
too afraid to say anything. Coaches are in massive fear of 
losing their jobs. Professors are in massive fear of losing 
their jobs.
    Mrs. McClain. All for standing up for women.
    Ms. Russell. Yes.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Ms. Russell.
    And, with that, my time is done.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Raskin.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you kindly, Madam Chair.
    The Ranking Member quoted the Republican Governor of Utah, 
who said something to the effect of, never before had he seen 
so many be so cruel to so few, who just wanted to participate.
    And, Ms. Goss Graves, let me start with you. It sounds to 
me like what we are mostly talking about here is the women who 
are at the very highest levels of their sport in the final 
competitions. We are talking about the very best.
    But do you get complaints about this, or have you heard 
complaints about this, just with people participating in either 
co-ed sports generally or transgender athletes who are part of 
an intramural softball league or people playing not for very 
high stakes but playing for the reason most of us play, which 
is to get exercise and have fun?
    Ms. Goss Graves. You know, about two dozen states have been 
racing to try to ban transgender participation in sports at all 
levels. And many of those states have struggled to identify any 
transgender individuals who are actually playing sports.
    What we are dealing with right now is not an overwhelming 
number of transgender athletes in all places, but, actually, 
the sort of political rhetoric that is creating this fervor 
that makes people believe that transgender people, who are less 
than, you know, half of one percent of the population, have an 
outsized presence in sports.
    And it is not to protect women's sports, it is not to 
expand the opportunity for women to play, it is not to bring 
more resources, and it is not for school districts to create 
safer conditions. There are other things that we know that work 
that increase safety in sports. This is not it.
    Mr. Raskin. So, Ms. Russell, let me ask you, because you 
are a lacrosse coach. I have got two daughters who played 
lacrosse. You seem like you are a great coach. Tell us--first, 
answer that question. Are we talking about just the highest 
level of sports where you are identifying a problem? I mean, is 
it a problem to have co-ed sports or transgender kids playing 
at a lower level, for intramurals and stuff like that?
    Ms. Russell. So, nobody here that I have heard has said 
anything about outlawing transgenders from playing sports.
    Mr. Raskin. And you do not favor that?
    Ms. Russell. No. What I am saying, personally, and I 
believe I have heard here is that I do not believe that 
biological males should be playing on exclusively women or 
girls' teams.
    Co-ed is completely different. When you play co-ed, in 
general, boys and girls know they are playing with each other. 
It is played differently. It is not played with the same 
intensity as a men's sport.
    Mr. Raskin. OK.
    Can I just ask about your personal experience--which you 
alluded to. But you ended up losing your job or leaving 
Oberlin, do I understand it, not because of something that 
happened with your team or a transgender player on your team 
but because of something you said about what happened in 
another league in another state? Is that right? Did I follow 
you?
    Or just tell me what the story was. I did not follow.
    Ms. Russell. So, I am sorry, are you asking why I am no 
longer coaching there?
    Mr. Raskin. Yes. I thought that you were telling us the 
story of that, but I could not quite follow the logical 
sequence. Can--maybe it is not related to that. I just--I 
thought that it was related to your views on this.
    Ms. Russell. So, I told the story publicly. And the college 
did not----
    Mr. Raskin. Well, what story did you tell? I am sorry.
    Ms. Russell. Of what happened to me at the college when I 
did speak up about biological males competing against 
biological females.
    Mr. Raskin. But was it at Oberlin? Or it was----
    Ms. Russell. No.
    Mr. Raskin. It was elsewhere.
    Ms. Russell. It was elsewhere.
    Mr. Raskin. So, you do not--do you have any direct 
experience of this, of what you are talking about, or no?
    Ms. Russell. Of biological males playing at Oberlin with 
biological females?
    Mr. Raskin. Yes. In other words, is that where this comes 
from, or no?
    Ms. Russell. No.
    Mr. Raskin. Oh, OK.
    OK. So, Ms. Goss Graves, let me just come back to you 
finally.
    Secretary DeVos, in the Trump Administration, she took the 
position that transgender kids should not be able to 
participate, I think, across the board, you know, not just at 
the highest levels or whatever, but just categorically could 
not participate.
    And the Office of Civil Rights in May 2020 ruled that a 
Connecticut high school could not maintain its policy allowing 
transgender students to participate in athletics on a team 
corresponding to their gender identity.
    How did that policy--because I understand the policy today 
is it is up to the schools to decide when it is appropriate and 
when it is not appropriate, under the Biden Administration 
rules. But how did that policy of categorically banning it 
affect children?
    Ms. Goss Graves. What a categorical ban means is that a 
child who wants to play does not have the chance to play.
    It also means that, even if you are a transgender kid who, 
maybe you do not even want to play sports, you now have a giant 
signal coming from your government that you are less worthy, 
that discrimination against you will be OK.
    And so, it is both the practical harm but then this broader 
message that policymakers are sending to young people that is 
disturbing.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you.
    And I yield back.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Gosar for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Gosar. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    There is an understanding of fairness. It is one that we 
almost instinctively learn from birth. Nothing offends a little 
child more than a sibling getting a treat and he or she does 
not. And America really hates cheaters. Just ask Lance 
Armstrong. Remember Deflategate? The uncovering of the steroid 
era was not kind to baseball. That is why beating women in 
women's sports is so obnoxious to the American public.
    Not only is allowing men to play in women's sports a 
flagrant violation of fairness as well as posing a danger to 
women in a locker room and the bathrooms, making women feel the 
opposite of unique, as then anyone can become one, it 
normalizes and encourages the terrible reality and tragedy of 
children mutilating themselves in a misguided and hopeless 
attempt to change genders.
    The Family Research Council cited the world professional 
association that the transgender health as a source of the 
following list of awful diseases that cross-sex hormones cause. 
Here is a list: blood clots, high triglycerides, cardiovascular 
disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, high red blood cells, a 
destabilization of some psychological disorders.
    It defies common sense that mutilation improves mental 
health. For the love of God, to everyone who promotes these 
terrible ideologies, desist, stop. Every time you claim a man 
can play in women's sports, every time you tell a child that 
they can be whoever, whatever gender you want to be, every time 
you read a book to a child promoting this propaganda, you are 
risking the health, happiness, and well-being of our children. 
Please stop experimenting with our youth.
    Ms. Goss Graves, I want to ask you a question. Is the 
genetic composition of a transgender versus a woman the same? 
No.
    Ms. Goss Graves. Well, I am not a scientist, but----
    Mr. Gosar. Well, we are talking about science here. So, I 
mean, I hope you--they are not the same. So that is why you see 
all these physiological differences.
    Ms. Goss Graves. If I can answer, though. I mean, if your 
question is how do you define woman and woman is an adult 
female, but there is a lot of variation that goes beyond my 
level of biology and so----
    Mr. Gosar. Well, I can tell you, you cannot--I am not 
looking at a definition. I am talking about the science. The 
science genetically is a man is a man, has different genetics 
than a woman, plain and simple. That is just what it is.
    Ms. Goss Graves. I guess what I would say is that it is--I 
am not a scientist or a doctor, but it is my understanding that 
it is more complex than what you are saying in that there is 
variation among men and among women and sometimes more 
variation among than there is between. Again, I am not a 
scientist and, you know, I do not think the panelists are 
scientists either. It seems like it may be a different 
scientific hearing that you can----
    Mr. Gosar. Well, that is why you have the differences. That 
is why you see muscle mass. That is why you see tidal volume. 
That is why you see all of these----
    Ms. Goss Graves. Right, variations. So, for example, in the 
WNBA, there is players that are 5-foot-5 and there is players 
that are 6-foot-9, so a wide variation in height and in size 
and in----
    Mr. Gosar. So let me--now that you have brought that up, 
let us talk about that. So, the center for the Arizona Phoenix 
Mercury, she had to get a genetics test to prove that she was a 
woman, did she not?
    Ms. Goss Graves. You know what----
    Mr. Gosar. She did.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] That is actually going to the 
problem with these sorts of sex verification and sex testing 
that when I think about what all women, but especially Black 
women whose bodies have historically fell outside the sort of 
typical--what is considered the typical norm, the idea that 
people would have to prove up their femaleness to play, it is 
horrifying, and it is going in the wrong direction. I do not 
think anybody wants that, especially----
    Mr. Gosar. Well, I theoretically disagree with you. I think 
we have got to be real with people about what their aspects 
are.
    Riley, how does playing in women's sports affect--how do 
men playing in women's sports affect the esprit de corps of a 
team or the team spirit?
    Ms. Gaines. Speaking to, again, my lived experience, first 
and foremost, it was a major distraction to have a male 
competing with us at the national championships. It was all we 
could talk about as a team. We were fearful to go into the 
locker room. We had to wait and watch if Thomas came out. Then 
we would enter to avoid going in at the same time. Of course, 
our sport is very physical, but there is a mental aspect to it. 
And allowing men into our sports certainly negatively impacted 
that mental aspect, as well as the physical, of course.
    Mr. Gosar. Ms. Parshall Perry, what are the likely costs to 
educational institutions complying with Biden's new Title IX 
rule which makes it almost impossible for schools receiving 
money to limit women's sports to only women?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. This is not just cost to education. 
This is cost to the Federal Government and taxpayers. It is 
cost to the medical community. It is cost to reduced lunch 
programs. And that is because Title IX intersects with section 
1557 of the Affordable Care Act and the Food and Nutrition Act, 
which is the USCA's reduced school lunch program. That means 
that implicating this particular rule does not just affect 
sports. It affects everything from nutrition program funding. 
It affects the cost of litigation. It affects the cost of 
implementation.
    Now we are requiring open locker rooms, open bathrooms as 
well. The cost of implementation, in addition to what are 
certain to be personal injury lawsuits as a result of the fact 
that these female students are now getting concussions, dental 
injuries, facial injuries. A school that does not protect its 
biological girls, maintains sex separate spaces is certain to 
going to be facing significant financial harm.
    Mr. Gosar. Thank you, Ms. Parshall Perry.
    I yield back.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Ocasio-Cortez.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you.
    Now I have spent a decent amount of my time here in 
Congress sitting through panels and hearings of men attempting 
to restrict the rights of women and telling us that it is for 
our own good. But I want to dive a little bit more deeply into 
why this issue targeting trans women in sports is particularly 
problematic, not just for trans girls but for all of us.
    We are here today because there is a proposal here--and 
there is several proposals here--to further marginalize trans 
women in sports. And I think about this all the time because 
trans people in the United States does not even exceed one 
percent of our population. And yet there are so many resources 
and energy and time dedicated to figuring out how we can more 
finely exclude them from our sports. And I thought why--why? 
Why so much effort and dedication of such a tiny portion of the 
U.S. population when there virtually is no major issue that is 
precipitating? And started to realize that a lot of these 
proposals here involve invasion of privacy of all women.
    Ms. Goss Graves, can you tell us a little bit about what 
sex testing looks like for youth in states with trans athletic 
bans?
    Ms. Goss Graves. It is terrible. In some states, any 
individual could challenge whether someone is a girl enough to 
play. In some states, it requires actual genital verification, 
which is shocking. And there are not--it is not as if there----
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And let me just stop you right there. 
You said there are some proposals. And we have seen this in 
Ohio. There was a proposed ban on trans athletes that 
originally allowed for genital examinations on minors in order 
to, quote/unquote, protect women. Is that correct?
    Ms. Goss Graves. Unfortunately, yes.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And so, we are seeing here in this 
guise, under the guise of not only trying to further 
marginalize trans women and girls, we are talking about opening 
up all women and girls to genital examinations when they are 
underage.
    Ms. Goss Graves. That is right.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Potentially just because someone can 
point to someone and say, I do not think you are a girl?
    Ms. Goss Graves. That is correct.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And we are saying this in an environment 
of a post-Dobbs America where states are criminalizing access 
to abortion and want nothing more than data on women to figure 
out when who is getting a menstrual cycle, who does not have 
one, and we are supposed to believe that this is going to make 
us better and safer? I think not.
    And per usual, I do not believe we are sitting here in a 
panel of men that has actually thought about the biology and 
privacy consequences of all women, trans or cisgender, here.
    Ms. Goss Graves, in addition to that, are there certain 
groups more likely to face discrimination under these bans and 
what you were speaking to, particularly when it comes to Black 
women and girls?
    Ms. Goss Graves. Yes. We have seen that there are examples 
of Black women who are even professional athletes whose bodies 
have been more examined and demonized. We have seen that with 
my fan favorite, Serena Williams, whose body is often talked 
about, that sort of challenging them for who they are. If it is 
codified into law, it is something that we would expect to see 
more.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And this also deeply intersects with a 
secondary issue, which is racial bias in the medical field when 
we have vast proportions of populations that have been studied 
and tested, are not racially or otherwise identity-based 
representative of the broader U.S. population. And so, what 
gets determined as a norm oftentimes gets pegged to largely 
White populations that have been studied, and then Black women 
and girls are then further subject to marginalization.
    This has been your experience and what you have seen as 
well, right?
    Ms. Goss Graves. That is correct.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And so, we are supposed to sit here on 
this side of the dais and, to Ranking Member Lee's point, see a 
party that has voted against women's access to abortion, voted 
against our right, the Lily Ledbetter Equal Pay Act, voted 
against the Violence Against Women Act, voted against our right 
to have access to contraception, and also does not even vote 
for equal funding, equitable funding in women's sports. And I 
am supposed to believe that this is who is looking out for my 
best interests? I think not.
    And to that, I yield back.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. 
Grothman.
    Mr. Grothman. Yes. Second hearing I have been at today. 
Earlier today, we had a hearing on anti-Semitism on campuses, 
but they kind of flow together because both show the complete 
lack of commonsense of the people running our universities 
today. So, two different hearings, but we get the same thing 
out of it.
    I am going to start with Ms. Gaines. You had participated 
in a small group that I was with earlier, and I learned 
something kind of out of this. This whole thing is kind of 
based on the idea that, you know, people are one way or the 
other.
    As I understand it, is it true that people go all the way 
in transgender, that they still have to take hormones, that 
they really--you know, like if a boy becomes a gal, he still 
has to--he does not become a gal all the way; he still has to 
take hormones to deal with this?
    Ms. Gaines. So different governing bodies of different 
sports have different rules. So, for example, FINA, which is 
the international governing body of swimming, now has 
implemented a rule that says, if you have gone through male 
puberty, you cannot compete with women. But then you have other 
sports, such as soccer, that says you can have--it is a 
testosterone threshold. So, I believe now it is 10 nanomoles 
per liter of testosterone any person, male, female, can possess 
and still be allowed to play on the women's team.
    So, it varies by sport. But specifically, the NCAA, they 
had a blanket policy in 2010 that just said 12 months of HRT, 
which of course is hormone replacement therapy.
    Mr. Grothman. One of the things I always wondered about 
this--and I will ask Ms. Parshall Perry, and if you do not have 
an answer to that, that is OK. As I understand it, from what I 
have read, the vast majority of people, 80 to 95 percent, who 
go through what they call dysphoric gender identity eventually 
come back to their original gender. And I sometimes wonder, as 
we normalize this idea of guys playing in women's sports, are 
you kind of creating a situation, which would be tragic if it 
is true, that some of these guys are never going to switch back 
because their whole social setting is praising them for 
switching? I think it would be kind of just too bad if they 
would have been in the 80 or 95 percent that snap back but 
because of this they will not.
    Do you think that is a concern, Ms. Perry?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. I think absolutely it is a concern. In 
fact, studies show that 75 to 90 percent----
    Mrs. Foxx. Your mic.
    Ms. Perry [continuing]. Of children if they are allowed to 
progress through----
    Mrs. Foxx. Your mic.
    Ms. Perry [continuing]. Seventy-five to 90 percent of 
children if allowed to progress through normal puberty 
eventually make peace with their natal biological sex and avoid 
the trans dilemma all together.
    We also know, based on studies, that social transitioning, 
including playing on a team specifically articulated by the 
Biden Administration in its Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, 
playing on the team that you want specifically for your gender 
identity not based on sex is an entree into ultimate medical 
transitioning.
    Now, with the rise of detransitioners which we have seen in 
widespread formats, including out in California where Kaiser 
Permanente is subject to multiple lawsuits for fast-tracking 
gender identitarian surgeries, the mind reels at what the 
implications are going to be.
    Mr. Grothman. I did read that these people are 19 times 
more likely than the rest of the public to commit suicide.
    You mean by encouraging these kids to play on an athletic 
team that does not match their actual sex, you may be sending 
them down this path in which they might wind up killing 
themselves?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. Absolutely. In addition to using cross-
sex hormones or puberty blockers, that actually sets off many 
latent medical health--mental health conditions that may not 
have been previously diagnosed.
    A full 30 percent in America of young women who are 
presenting to a gender confirmation clinic have not been 
diagnosed but are ultimately diagnosed with autism spectrum 
disorder. As the mother of two children on the autism spectrum 
disorder scale, I will tell you right now they are very, very 
obvious manifestations that someone not trained to look for 
would have to take into account rather than fast-tracking 
someone into medical and hormonal castration.
    Mr. Grothman. This is really interesting. I mean, I would 
say it is one thing if you are dealing with 30-or 35-year-olds, 
but we are here largely dealing with people whole are so young, 
you know, 14, 15 years old, and you wind up--you are kind of 
pushing them toward transitioning and maybe screwing up their 
whole life. Is that true?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. No question.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Well, thank you very much.
    And I will----
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Mr. Grothman.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Crockett from Texas.
    Ms. Crockett. OK. All right. So most everyone up here on 
the other side of the aisle has endorsed a person that has been 
found liable for sexual abuse of women to be our President of 
the United States, but we are going to talk about how this 
party is going to protect women.
    Protecting women, what exactly does that mean? Are we going 
to talk about sexual abuse? Because we can get into it, because 
we do have some real conversations that we can have about it. 
Considering the fact that we are currently in the middle of, 
say, a war, there has been allegations of rape being used in 
war. Seems like maybe we could have a few conversations about 
what it would look like to prevent that, what it would look 
like to maybe go and get those hostages out, maybe go and send 
some money to our allies. It looks like we could do something 
of value.
    But let me tell you, this session we have set so many good 
records. One of those records was we have had a record number 
of people that have retired or announced their retirements in 
the month of November from the House. And from everything that 
I hear, it is because this body has become completely 
unserious.
    But we do have serious issues, especially when it comes to 
women. So, let us talk about what it looks like to protect 
women in this country.
    When lawmakers like this are so far out of touch with what 
women need, we see states pushing back, at least states that 
will allow you to push back. I am from the state of Texas. And, 
of course, they do not want you to ever have an opportunity to 
raise your voice in the state of Texas. In fact, Ms. Parshall 
Perry, I know your organization, The Heritage Foundation, loves 
Texas. Ooh, they love Texas. They are always sending us some 
nonsense bills that somehow set this country on the wrong 
trajectory. They send them to Texas. They send them to Florida. 
Every deplorable state that we can think about, they usually 
are coming at us, you all's think tank.
    But nevertheless----
    Ms. Greene. Deplorable state. Oh, wow.
    Ms. Crockett [continuing]. When we talk about protecting 
women, what we have seen is, say--and the state of Ohio was one 
of the most recent states. When their lawmakers did not have 
the courage to do what they needed to do because, of course, we 
believe----
    Ms. Greene. Point of order.
    Ms. Crockett [continuing]. Because we believe in 
gerrymandering in this----
    Ms. Greene. Point of order. Point of order. I move to 
strike her words, ``deplorable states.''
    Mr. Raskin. That is not a point of order. Let the 
gentlelady proceed.
    Mrs. McClain. The Committee will suspend. Whoa, whoa, whoa, 
whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. The Committee will suspend. 
Just hold----
    [Discussion off the record.]
    Mrs. McClain. So, I am prepared to rule. This is not a 
statement. A deplorable state is not a statement against a 
person, or it is not engaging in personalities, so I will 
continue, and you can reclaim your time.
    Ms. Crockett. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    So, we saw recently what the state of Ohio did when their 
lawmakers refused to listen to them. We also have seen what the 
state of Kansas decided to do. When it comes to protecting 
women, it seems like the only people that are standing up for 
women on an everyday basis are the people themselves. Because 
their elected officials that somehow get into these positions 
in a gerrymandered way, they do not seem to represent the 
interests of the people.
    But let me talk to you about something that is very real in 
this country, and that is unhoused people. And I am sure that 
while we do not have an expert on the matter here, many of you 
may not recognize that the majority of the youth that are 
actually unhoused in this country are members of the LGBTQIA 
community.
    When we look at mental health issues in this country, if we 
care--because I heard terms that I never thought I would hear 
certain people say up in here--we had have heard about 
equality. We had have heard about regressiveness. We have heard 
about civil rights. I cannot get the Voting Rights Act passed. 
We have heard we need to follow the science. Are you kidding 
me, when we are sitting up here talking about anti-vaxxing and 
all this nonsense?
    But let me tell you about somebody that I love very dearly 
who has struggled and suffered because of the ignorance that 
continues to be perpetuated, which is not what is in the will 
of the people. Young Libby, who has been my constituent for far 
too long and has gone through too much in the state of Texas. 
At the age of 7, Libby started testifying down at the 
statehouse about the bathroom bill--I think that was a Heritage 
Foundation situation as well--started testifying at the age of 
7 about how it made her feel. Then, ultimately, Libby has been 
testifying, and at this point Libby is 13 years old.
    And I am going to tell you something. I know that it was 
characterized as, oh, this is the cool thing to do and maybe 
people are encouraged to be trans and so they do not want to 
speak out and now that--it is not the easy thing to do when you 
have to sit here and prove your personhood every single time 
that you are walking around. You have got people that feel a 
way because they are losing in a sport--and listen, the trans 
person it do not sound like even came in first, from what I 
could tell.
    But, nevertheless, I think we need to focus on real things 
that are real issues as relates to women. If you care about 
women, let us get the ERA passed so we can have equal rights. 
Let us make sure that we fully fund access to reproductive 
health. Let us make sure that we are protecting those that are 
being raped because they are being raped in this country as 
well as abroad. And this party has decided that even if you are 
raped and you are a child, guess what, you should not have 
access to reproductive healthcare. That is not protecting 
women.
    And I will yield.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    Before this gets even more out of control, I am going to 
try and reel it back in. I am going to remind everybody on what 
the title of this hearing is, ``The Importance of Protecting 
Female Athletes and Title IX.''
    So, Title IX was designed to give female athletes equality, 
fairness. This is about--and I am going to restate it again 
because we are getting off track--Title IX and protecting 
female athletes. I am happy to have other hearings, but I would 
like to stay focused on this hearing, if we could, which, 
again, is ``The Importance of Protecting Female Athletes and 
Title IX.''
    And with that--without objection, Representative Takano of 
California is waived on to the Subcommittee for purposes of 
questioning the witnesses at today's Subcommittee hearing.
    And with that, Mr. Burlison is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, for holding this 
hearing.
    I think this is an extremely important topic. And I want to 
reiterate the words of our colleague from Wisconsin. What is 
happening in our universities is insane. It is almost a de-
evolution of thought that has occurred in Western culture for 
thousands of years, from philosophers like Plato to Descartes 
to Bacon that what is in your mind is not necessarily reality 
and the truth. And you can believe all day long in one thing; 
it does not mean that it is so.
    And so, it is almost like this Nation and this attitude 
that we want to throw out all of this conventional thinking for 
centuries is really going to be the undoing of this Nation. But 
if you want to know where this Administration stands, all you 
have to do is look at the position statement from President 
Biden. He said, and I quote, ``Let us be clear, transgender 
equality is the civil rights issue of our time. There is no 
room for compromise when it comes to basic human rights.''
    There is no room for compromise? That is pretty--that is a 
very definitive statement.
    Ms. Gaines, what would you say to those that claim that 
there is no room for compromise when it comes to men competing 
in women's sports?
    Ms. Gaines. That statement, I am just--truthfully, I am not 
even honestly sure what that would entail. In terms of 
compromise from women, I do not believe we should have to 
compromise anything. We should be--and this is what Title IX's 
original intent was, we should be entitled to competing on the 
basis of sex and without facing discrimination. But, again, 
what myself and my teammates and my competitors and girls 
around the country, high school level, college level, continue 
to face is blatant discrimination on the basis of our sex.
    Mr. Burlison. Yes. I can tell you, I am a father of two 
girls who both participated in sports. And I will tell you, 
when you are the parent on the sidelines and you are watching, 
the competitive--you know, every--all that nature flows. And 
when you see an injustice occur, you know, whether it is teams 
that are having children that are older than your kids, you 
know, playing or in the--and sometimes--I will never forget. 
For many years, boys and girls were equal, especially in 
soccer, right, which my girls competed in. But there was a 
point in which it was no longer the case. And as a parent, and 
all the parents on the sidelines, we would actually count the 
number, especially still in co-ed, we would count the number of 
boys and determine, you know, which team is probably going to 
win. And so, it was nice whenever they were able to actually 
hit an age where they were able to compete against other girls 
and other women.
    But sadly, that is why everybody who sees what is happening 
knows that this is injustice. Anyone who is a parent who sees 
what is happening knows that this is an injustice. In fact, a 
survey of parents in the United States concluded that 70 
percent of parents do not think that this is a good idea, and 
yet we are doing it. And so--or that it is being done at our 
university levels. And, of course, if you object, you are 
considered trans--you know, transgressive or transphobic, and 
you are effectively canceled.
    Ms. Russell, you were effectively canceled for standing up 
for female athletes on your team. What would you say to others 
in a similar position who are wondering whether or not they 
should speak out?
    Ms. Russell. I would still suggest that everybody speak up 
because it is because of silence that this continues. There 
are--the amount of support I received once I went public, the 
number of emails, direct messages, phone calls all was 
positive. Everything on social media was positive in support of 
this position that girls and women sports needs to stay female 
only.
    Mr. Burlison. Well, Ms. Russell, thank you for your 
courageous stand. We appreciate that.
    I just want to say, you know, to Ms. Gaines, what happened 
to you is tragic. I mean, you were robbed of the glory. You 
were robbed of your opportunity to be clearly the victor. And 
if it were not so tragic, it would be comical. And I understand 
there is a movie being made, the comedy about this very issue, 
on The Daily Wire that I cannot wait to see.
    Ms. Gaines. I encourage everyone to watch it. And, 
truthfully, I think that is what is needed, because what we are 
seeing, again, what myself and my teammates and my competitors 
saw was a mockery, a mockery of women. And I believe it is time 
we mock the mockery through comedy because, you are right, it 
is objectively funny. It is inherent to almost look at this and 
laugh because it feels like satire. But watching that movie, to 
which I watched, it did not feel like satire. It felt like a 
documentary of what, again, myself and girls around the country 
continue to go through.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    My time has expired.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Takano for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Takano. I thank the Chair, and I thank the Committee 
for the opportunity to participate.
    You know, Ms. Russell, these numbers--I will try to get the 
substantiation somewhere. But men in this country 
interscholastically receive $252 million more in athletic 
scholarships than women for the 2019-2020 year. And girls 
generally have approximately $1.1 million fewer opportunities 
than boys to participate in high school athletics. Title IX has 
not been able to fix that.
    Does this seem--does this ring true, the statistic I just 
read to you?
    Ms. Russell. I do not have the statistic in front of me, 
but what I do know is that there are so many more opportunities 
because of Title IX. And if we allow men and boys into women's 
sports, which is what is happening, then those opportunities--
--
    Mr. Takano. I just want to get your reaction to whether----
    Ms. Russell [continuing]. For more scholarships go away for 
women.
    Mr. Takano. Well, I do not know whether or not excluding 
transgender athletes from participating fixes this gross 
inequity of $252 million more in athletic scholarships for 
women [sic] and $1.1 million fewer opportunities for girls than 
boys to participate in high school athletics. My point is that 
excluding transgender athletes who constitute less than one 
percent of this country is not a fix to the gender inequities 
in sports.
    Let me just read to you----
    Ms. Russell. Am I allowed to say something?
    Mr. Takano. No. I reclaim my time.
    I want to read to you an excerpt of the veto message from 
Governor Spencer Cox of Utah when he vetoed the trans ban in 
sports. He said there is--he reads his final reason for this 
veto. He says, ``I must admit, I am not an expert in 
transgenderism. I struggle to understand much of it and the 
science is conflicting. When in doubt, however, I always try to 
err on the side of kindness, mercy, and compassion. I also try 
to get proximate, and I am learning so much more--so much from 
our transgender community. They are great kids who face 
enormous struggles. And here are the numbers that have most 
impacted my decision: 75,000, 4, 1, 86, and 56.
    "75,000 high school kids participating in high school 
sports in Utah. Four transgender kids playing high school 
sports in Utah. One transgender student playing girls sports. 
Eighty-six percent of trans students reporting suicidality. 
Fifty-six percent of trans youth having attempted suicide.
    ``Four kids and only one of them playing girls sports. That 
is what all this is about. Four kids who are not dominating or 
winning trophies or taking scholarships. Four kids who were 
just trying to find some friends and feel like they are part of 
something. Four kids trying to get through each day. Rarely has 
so much fear and anger been directed at so few. I do not 
understand what they are going through or why they feel the way 
they do. But I want them to live. And all the research shows 
that even a little acceptance and connection can reduce 
suicidality significantly. And for that reason, as much as any 
other, I have taken this action''--meaning to veto this bill--
``and hope that we can continue to work together and find a 
better way. If a veto override occurs, I hope we can work to 
find ways to show these four kids that we love them and that 
they have a place in our state.''
    I find that remarkable.
    Now, following that veto and following the override, it is 
interesting because there was an incident in Utah where parents 
perceived that the winner of a contest, of an athletic contest, 
was really not of that gender, was not really a girl. And so, 
what happened is the parents forced this woman, this young girl 
to undergo a genital inspection because her body type did not 
conform to that of what they thought was a girl and feminine.
    And I just want to insert this article, you know, ``Judge 
Blocks Utah Trans Sports Ban, While Probe of Athlete Emerges,'' 
into the record.
    I also would like unanimous consent to enter into the 
record the veto message of Spencer Cox of Utah, the Governor of 
Utah.
    Mrs. McClain. Without objection.
    Mr. Takano. Ms. Goss Graves, I mean, you cited earlier this 
issue of straight girls who win being subjected potentially to 
this invasion of privacy.
    Ms. Goss Graves. That is correct. All girls are subject to 
these sorts of sex verification processes, whether it be the 
abusive genital examinations or tracking menstrual cycles or 
other sorts of deep invasions of privacy. But I think who will 
be most harmed by that, actually, are the girls who do not 
generally fit a stereotype, and there has been a lot of 
stereotype conversation today. Lots of people fit a stereotype 
and lots of people do not conform to stereotypes. And Title IX 
for 50 years has had something to say about that.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you.
    I am sorry for going over, Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    Ms. Russell, I will give you a few seconds to respond.
    Ms. Russell. This is the second time I have heard in here 
exclusion of transgender athletes. We are not talking about 
excluding anyone. We are talking about keeping female sports 
for biological females only, women's and girls' sports for 
biological females only. That does not exclude anyone.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Foxx, Chairman Foxx for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Foxx. Ms. Russell, I would like to continue on this 
issue. In terms of what Mr. Takano was saying, my understanding 
is, along your line, it is not just--and it is not a matter 
of--it is not just a matter of people who pretend to be girls 
or women who are biological males moving into girls' and 
women's sports to take a place, but is not there an issue of 
the difference in strength and the issue of safety? Aren't 
those primary issues with saying biological men should not be 
competing against biological women?
    Ms. Russell. You are correct. So even if a biological male 
is on puberty blockers--I mean, sorry--testosterone blockers, 
they can still maintain their muscle mass with their workouts.
    As far as the safety, right now we just talked about three 
different high school athletes who have been injured by 
biological males. One of those biological males is not 
transgender. And the speed of the shot that he took that hit 
the girl in the mouth in field hockey, if you do not know what 
a field hockey ball looks like, it is harder than a baseball 
and harder than a lacrosse ball. The muscle mass in men, it is 
not just that; it is the body composition. The hips are 
thinner. They are not made to give birth to children.
    Ms. Foxx. Right, right.
    Ms. Russell. They are not made to breastfeed children.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Gaines, thank you very much for the great work that you 
are doing in bringing this issue, keeping this issue in the 
forefront of people's minds.
    The lack of transparency provided by the Biden 
Administration about changes to Title IX and other aspects of 
their social agenda is concerning, particularly for parents. 
Ms. Gaines, how did your parents find out you would be changing 
clothes in the same locker room as a biological male?
    Ms. Gaines. Well, I had to call my parents. As mentioned in 
my testimony, we were not forewarned we would be sharing a 
changing space. The only time--the first time we became aware 
we would be forced to undress next to, again, this 6-foot-4, 
22-year-old male, fully intact with and exposing male 
genitalia, was when we were inches away from this male also 
simultaneously undressing.
    And I will tell you, I called my parents, specifically my 
dad, and he was outraged.
    Ms. Foxx. And so, no one was informed about this ahead of 
time.
    What are your former teammates--I am sure you have been 
around them. How are they responding to these sweeping changes 
in women's sports?
    Ms. Gaines. Being team captain at University of Kentucky 
both my junior and senior year, I made sure to facilitate an 
environment where everyone felt comfortable sharing their 
views. And what I noticed was 38 out of the 40 girls on the 
women's swimming and diving team felt the exact same way I am 
sharing with you. And, again, I do not claim to speak for every 
single girl, but I do claim to speak for the overwhelming 
majority of us because I saw the tears from the girls who, of 
course, placed 9th and 17th and missed out on being named an 
all-American by one place. And I felt the extreme discomfort, 
and I can attest to the whispers of anger and frustration from 
those girls who, just like myself, had worked our entire lives 
to get to that point.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you.
    Ms. Parshall Perry, what impact do you believe the Biden 
Administration's attempts to change Title IX will have in 
parental involvement in women's sports? And how important is 
parental involvement? Why should we protect it?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. Well, this Administration is keen to 
divest parents of their constitutional authority to oversee the 
care and upbringing of their children at every turn. And the 
rise in what we have seen of these confidential gender identity 
policies and publicly funded schools is a perfect example of 
that, divesting parents from their ability to be involved in 
the children's sports. The competitive nature of what will 
ultimately invest them going forward with the maturity and the 
success that they will need later in life I do not think just 
involves parents, I think ultimately involves a disservice to 
teachers, to educators, to school administrators. And the fact 
of the matter is just the second of these two rules is patently 
unconstitutional and will not survive a legal challenge.
    Ms. Foxx. Ms. Parshall Perry, in their April 13 proposed 
rule, the Biden Administration uses the Bostock v. Clayton 
County ruling as justification. What is the Biden 
Administration's error in using this ruling?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. It is hard to contain it into a very 
brief statement, but I will say that the opinion began with 
Justice Gorsuch writing, ``We begin with the assumption that 
sex means biological distinctions between male and female.'' At 
no point was sex expanded to include gender identity. Title IX 
and Title VII are completely different. Title VII, which was at 
issue in Bostock, is an employment law that prevents 
consideration at all of underlying sex or sex characteristics. 
Title IX, however, is exactly the opposite. It requires 
consideration of sex.
    And because Gorsuch was clear to cabin the opinion saying, 
exclusively, we are not talking about anything but employment 
discrimination law, we are not discussing pronouns, bathrooms, 
dress codes, or locker rooms, that, unfortunately, was not a 
message I think the Department of Education was keen to listen 
to, so they patently ignored it.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Ms. Parshall Perry.
    I want to make one clarification that the Ranking Member of 
the full Committee made. Our current Title IX rule in no way 
prevents transgender students from participating in sports. It 
simply said a school did not violate Title IX by having them 
compete based on their biological sex.
    So, I just want to clarify that for the record.
    And since I gave Ms. Russell a few extra minutes, I will 
tack that time on to you, Mr. Casar, so I----
    Ms. Lee. Madam Chair, I ask unanimous consent to enter into 
the record this study by the British Journal of Sports Medicine 
showing that after 2 years of hormone therapy, most athletic 
performance differences between trans women and cis women 
disappear, challenging what we have heard today that would have 
you think all trans women are so physically superior to 
cisgender women that they are bound to win every match and 
injure all opponents along the way. This narrative is not 
supported by science.
    Mrs. McClain. Without objection, so ordered.
    Mrs. McClain. With that, the Chair now recognizes Mr. Casar 
for 5-ish minutes.
    Mr. Casar. Thank you, Chair.
    I want to take a step back and think about the big picture 
of what we have been talking about in this Committee hearing 
when we talk about trans youth participating in sports. Because 
when we are here at the seat of government in the U.S. Capitol 
and we talk about young people, I think we should be talking 
about how we support them. And if anyone needs support, it is 
probably trans youth who are more likely to have faced bullying 
and isolation and doubt and usually have a harder time than 
most of our kids.
    But instead of talking about how to support all of our 
youth, especially our most vulnerable youth, people in my 
state, like Greg Abbott, have used their government power to 
pick on trans kids and get TV news hits about those kids' 
ability to play in sports. And instead of funding schools, 
supporting teachers or counselors or youth programs, I have got 
an extremist legislature singling out what we have been talking 
about today, a small handful of kids who are already suffering 
from pain with more pain.
    Because those families that I have met with and am talking 
about, they know that when we spend our time in these seats of 
power talking about them instead of with them about these 
challenges, that creates even worse mental health issues, even 
more just really hard times for some of these families who are 
now questioning their own residency in my state. That is what 
we are dealing with here today.
    And so, like any other athlete, trans athletes sometimes 
win, sometimes they lose. But in talking with a very small 
handful of them, they talk about how this is a chance at 
comradery, this is a chance at relaxation, this is a chance at 
teamwork.
    And so, in my view, instead of spending our time picking on 
trans youth, we should be listening to them, bringing 
communities together, figuring out how to solve the real 
challenges that our youth face, rather than angling for the 
latest segment on FOX News. We should be focused on expanding 
opportunities for all of our young people and find ways to let 
kids be kids.
    So, now for my questions. Ms. Goss Graves, are you aware of 
any reason to believe that allowing trans athletes to 
participate in girls' athletics is limiting opportunities for 
cisgender athletes?
    Ms. Goss Graves. Absolutely not. In fact, there is a lot of 
gender inequity in sports and in schools. The trans athletes 
are not the source of it. They are not the source of resource 
inequity. They are not the source of not having the same level 
of coaching. They are not the source of not opening up new 
sports teams when you have a group of girls who say, ``I just 
want to try playing lacrosse and your school will not start a 
lacrosse team.''
    Trans athletes are not the reason that we have gender 
inequity in sports, and they are not the reason that, 50 years 
after Title IX was passed, its broad promise of addressing sex 
discrimination in education is still unfulfilled.
    Mr. Casar. Thank you for that answer.
    And so, Ms. Goss Graves, how could we, since we are in 
these seats of power, better support women's athletics and 
increase opportunities for girls and women who want to 
participate in sports?
    Ms. Goss Graves. There is a range of things that would be 
important. You could provide additional resources to schools, 
especially schools who have fewer resources to devote to 
sports. Oftentimes what we have found in areas where they have 
fewer resources, what they end up doing is investing hugely 
into male sports programs and deciding that they are not going 
to invest in female sports programs.
    You could also take action on the information that has come 
out about sexual abuse in sports, abuse by coaches, by athletic 
trainers, by sometimes medical doctors. This is not something 
that is coming out about trans athletes. It is about schools 
looking away from the harm that their employees are causing.
    There are a range of things I would be happy to work with 
you and with this Committee on it.
    Mr. Casar. So, as Mr. Takano mentioned, the four trans 
athletes in Utah, it is not them that caused the huge 
disproportionality in funding for men's sports versus women's 
sports. In fact, what you are saying here is it may not be 
trans athletes or is not trans athletes taking opportunities 
away who are in sports; it might actually be guys like us on 
daises like this one not investing equally in women's sports.
    Actually, I have here an example from the Women's Sports 
Foundation saying that men received $252 million more in 
athletic scholarships than women in the years 2019 and 2020. A 
report released last year for the 50th anniversary of Title IX 
found that men's athletic programs received more than twice as 
many resources as women's athletic programs in 2020, and 
expenditures for recruiting and compensating head and assistant 
coaches favored male athletes about three to one.
    So, I want to enter both of those documents into the 
record. First, the May 2022 report from the Women's Sports 
Foundation, titled, ``50 Years of Title IX: We're Not Done 
Yet.'' So, I would like unanimous consent to enter that into 
the record, along with this report from 2022 from the NCAA, 
titled, ``The state of Women in College Sports.''
    Mr. Fry. [Presiding.] Without objection.
    Mr. Casar. Thank you.
    So, I think that this is a really important part of the 
question. One, how can we better support young people in 
general? And then, second, if the claim is that by supporting 
trans young people and their mental health and their ability to 
be fully included in themselves, we are hurting women's sports, 
then we will actually ask ourselves, what is actually hurting 
women's sports? And it might be the amount of scholarship money 
that many of us who were male athletes immediately had access 
to that women athletes did not have access to, or the fact that 
many of us who were male athletes could participate in sports 
over the summer and in the fall semester and in the spring 
semester and do a second set of sports and that you already had 
your uniforms paid for and you already had the ability to get 
state championship trips paid for. Maybe we could be talking 
about those things if we are going to be talking about sports.
    Ms. Goss Graves, just to close here, how can bans on trans 
athletes participating in girls' and women's athletics actually 
also harm those cis students?
    Ms. Goss Graves. Well, we have talked a lot about the sort 
of sex verification that we have seen. And that is how you 
prove--how states are requiring proving up that you are girl 
enough or woman enough to play. But I also just want to say 
this has been studied. The issue of trans exclusionary 
policies, sports participation for girls overall in high school 
declined in states that had trans exclusion policies. So, when 
we are inclusive, everyone wins.
    Mr. Casar. Wait, so you are saying where there have been 
more trans inclusive policies, you have actually had more women 
participate in sports?
    Ms. Goss Graves. Correct. That is correct.
    Mr. Casar. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Fry. The gentleman yields.
    The Chair now recognizes himself for 5 minutes for the 
purpose of asking questions.
    You know, what is interesting about this entire debate, we 
dealt with this in South Carolina when I was in the general 
assembly. It shocked me the polling when you look at this, the 
amount of people that support keeping girls in girls' sports 
and men in men's sports, 70 percent around the country. The 
American people cannot agree 70 percent on anything. But on 
this they are there. They understand it, and it makes 
commonsense.
    And so, Ms. Gaines, when you travel the country, what are 
some of the things, the stories that you hear from women who 
are seeing this in their schools and on their campuses?
    Ms. Gaines. Well, first and foremost to your point, as we 
see a lot of times both at the state and Federal level how 
Representatives vote, Senators vote, Delegates vote, how we see 
the media portray this issue, it seems as if it falls on party 
lines. But just as you said, that could not be further from the 
truth.
    This extends beyond the political aisle, and that is 
certainly something I have seen traveling the country, going 
state to state, talking to women who have been impacted by this 
in some capacity, whether that be in their sport, whether that 
be women in prisons who have dealt with men--male inmates being 
allowed into their prisons, whether that be, again, the case of 
the sorority in Wyoming, whatever the situation might be, 
bathroom instances. As we saw this week a headline about a male 
who was allowed to sleep in a bed and be roomed with a woman, 
and the answer is always the same thing, in that this is 
harmful specifically to women. It adversely affects women.
    Again, this whole hearing we have not talked about females 
entering into men's sports because that is not a threat, and it 
is not happening, and it will not happen because this is only 
happening one way, and that way is the way that affects women 
negatively.
    Mr. Fry. Right. And so, you look at the polling on this--
and we just talked about this, but it is remarkable to me--I 
mean, this is the success of Title IX. When you have, you know, 
roughly 300,000 at the start in 1972, female athletes and now 
you are over 3 million, people understand what is going on. 
Your parents understood what was happening in your locker room. 
They understand what is going on. That is why they are so 
supportive of keeping a fair playing field and supporting Title 
IX in its original intent.
    What are some of the concerns--and maybe not the specific 
instances, but maybe some of the themes that you hear from 
women across the country?
    Ms. Gaines. Well, one, as we mentioned, safety aspects, 
especially in sports that require physical contact or throwing 
something at one another or collision, these girls are scared.
    Another thing I hear across the country is women are 
terrified to speak out. They are terrified to be vilified. They 
are terrified to be called transphobic or bigots, like we have 
been called in this hearing today, for stating our views, and 
that is a real threat. And I understand it, because since 
taking the stance that I have taken, my address has been 
leaked. And since my address was leaked, I have had people 
showing up at my doorstep. I have had drones flying above my 
house. I cannot even tell you the amount of death threats that 
I have had that have rendered the FBI getting involved. It is 
real. The vitriol I have faced. I have been held for ransom for 
over 4 hours where these protestors demanded that if I wanted 
to make it home to see my family safely again, I had to pay 
them money. I have been hit. I have been spit on. I have had 
bottles thrown at me, drinks poured on me.
    Again, Thomas' teammates in particular, they were forced 
every single week to go to mandatory LGBTQ education meetings 
to learn about how just by being cisgender, they were 
oppressing Thomas. And when they were concerned about the 
locker room aspect and 16 of these swimmers, Thomas' teammates, 
sent an email to their administration, with their parents on 
the email, expressing their discomfort in the locker room, the 
Administration responded back with, ``if you feel uncomfortable 
seeing male genitalia, here is some counseling resources that 
you should seek in an attempt to reeducate yourself.''
    At Roanoke College----
    Mr. Fry. In light of the time, Ms. Gaines, just real 
quickly----
    Ms. Gaines. Yes.
    Mr. Fry. I know that the locker room situation that you 
described earlier, do you think that the NCAA is actually 
working to improve this situation or is it kind of status quo 
with them and sweeping it under the rug?
    Ms. Gaines. It is certainly status quo. President Charlie 
Baker testified in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee a 
few weeks ago. And when confronted with that exact question, 
you know, what does this policy pertaining to the locker rooms 
look like right now, he could not answer. He did not know what 
the policy was. He had to tell Senator Hawley, well, let me get 
back to you in writing.
    And I think that is incredibly telling for the NCAA 
president to not even know the policy as it stands pertaining 
to locker rooms.
    Mr. Fry. Ms. Parshall Perry, you described that the Federal 
Government is perpetuating an athletic fraud of unprecedented 
proportions on students.
    Do you think, one, that the Biden Administration's efforts 
will actually leave a lasting impact on women's sports? And a 
followup of that, do you hope to see a different approach in a 
different administration?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. I think the best and different approach 
would be to leave Title IX alone as it was originally intended 
to be interpreted. There was no ambiguity whatsoever in the 
definition of sex. And, ultimately, what keeps us here is our 
failure to identify biological distinctions between one sex and 
another. We can use terms like ``cis'' or ``trans'' all we 
want, but men and women are different, and the American public 
knows it, which is why 70 percent of the American populous 
wants sports separated by sex. The Washington Post, Harvard 
Harris, Rasmussen Reports, all of them across the line, no 
matter their ideological bent, all indicate that Americans want 
sex-separated sports.
    I do have a very strong feeling that this law will 
automatically be challenged in a Federal court. We know that 
the notice of interpretive guidance has already been seized. It 
is already now based on 20 states. It is in a holding pattern 
based on the ultimate release of this final rule. It Is a 
violation of administrative law, civil rights law, and 
constitutional law. And the ways to challenge it are too long, 
I think, for the timeframe of this hearing today.
    Mr. Fry. Thank you for that, Ms. Parshall Perry.
    And with that, I recognize Mr. Garcia of California for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Lee. Very quickly, Mr. Chair. I would like to seek 
unanimous consent to enter into the record a court decision 
from the District Court of Utah in Roe v. Utah High School 
Activities Association. My colleagues have asserted that their 
proposed interpretation of Title IX would not prevent trans 
kids from participating in a sport. But as a Utah district 
court acknowledged in Roe v. Utah High School Activities 
Association regarding trans girls on girls' sports teams, 
quote, ``If they are not eligible to play on girls' teams, they 
have no meaningful opportunity to play at all.''
    Mr. Fry. Without objection.
    Mr. Fry. Mr. Garcia, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, I, 
first of all, thank you for allowing me to waive on this 
hearing today.
    I think it is important to have different perspectives. 
And, certainly, before my time being here in Congress for this 
last year, I served as Mayor of my community, but before that, 
most importantly, I worked for 10 years on a college campus. 
And so, I understand very well what the experiences of my 
former students have had and what being an athlete and having 
those experiences also means for so many students.
    Let me also just say that an advancement for women in 
sports and athletes has been incredible, of course, over the 
last two decades. And I have seen even my own institution, the 
university where I worked at, the ability to transition and 
encourage women's sports, to fund sports in a way that is 
equitable for all of our students has always been really 
important. And so, I celebrate in advance how far women 
athletes have come in sports for women across our university 
systems and community colleges. It has been really something to 
celebrate.
    I also think it is important as an openly gay person to 
recognize that our community, especially trans people in our 
community, are constantly being attacked. And I know that some 
folks have said that--or being called bigots or you fear there 
is bigotry, well, there is a lot of bigotry, particularly 
against people that are trans in this country and against the 
LGBTQ+ community.
    What the rest of us like myself as an openly gay person, 
gay man, faces nothing compared to what transgender people face 
in this country. And our community needs to be divided--and we 
cannot be divided amongst ourselves when this hateful, kind of 
vile language happens to so many that are already suffering 
from severe challenges and disadvantages in this country.
    Now, we know this Subcommittee is tasked with oversight 
over Federal healthcare policy, food and drug safety, and 
monetary policy, all important things, but instead, of course, 
we are focused on the cruelty toward the LGBTQ+ people at the 
Federal level. Now, our voters sent us here to address our 
country's biggest challenges, but instead we are, once again, 
going into battle and trying to move our rights backward not 
forward.
    We know that the Majority oftentimes goes back to moral 
panic and inciting what I believe is violence and hatred toward 
gay people, and we have seen this playbook over and over again.
    Now, sports remain a place where all LGBTQ+ people can feel 
free to play and to be accepted. We also know that LGBTQ+ 
people are underrepresented in sports and particularly trans 
and nonbinary athletes. There are fewer, by the way, than 100 
trans and nonbinary athletes in NCAA sports out of over a 
quarter of a million athletes. So, the 226,000 athletes that 
participate, we are talking about less than 100 actual people. 
And I want to remind us that there are less than one percent of 
people identify as trans in the United States when you look at 
the whole population. Either it is .4 or .5 percent identify as 
trans.
    So, what we are really talking about here is a very small 
percentage of the population that are constantly being attacked 
and attacked and attacked over and over again. And we know that 
for trans people, their lives are already endangered in so many 
ways around mental health challenges and access to healthcare.
    Now, Ms. Goss Graves, is there any reason to think that 
people are transitioning, often completely radically changing 
their life and their health, just to gain a competitive 
advantage in women's sports?
    Ms. Goss Graves. There is absolutely no evidence of that. 
And, actually, putting that notion out there in a formal 
setting with policymakers sends a really terrible message.
    If I could just say one thing about what I hope transgender 
young people who may be watching this hearing know, and that 
is, the sort of legislative bullying that they may experience 
in their states or they may have heard in these halls is not 
where the majority of the people in this country are. In fact, 
the vast majority of people see right through it and do not 
like that bullying.
    Mr. Garcia. And I agree with you.
    And you may or may not know this, but there are more 
Republican and far-right bills moving through legislatures and 
through different bodies across the country than they are 
actually trans kids and youth playing in sports across the 
country. And so, the attacks that are happening we should be 
ashamed of.
    And, as I reminder, as I conclude, half of trans and non-
binary youth struggle with thoughts of suicide every single 
year. And that is what this hearing should be about, versus the 
attacks on trans athletes.
    I yield back.
    Mrs. McClain. Again, this is a hearing about women, 
protecting women and protecting Title IX. It is not against any 
group.
    But, with that, I recognize Mr. Langworthy for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Langworthy. Thank you, Chair McClain, for holding this 
hearing.
    And I cannot believe that I have to say this here today, 
but biological males competing in women's sports is 
fundamentally unfair.
    My colleagues on the other side of the aisle time and again 
tell us to follow and trust the science. Yet we are here, 
having to have a debate on a subject in which science has 
proven definitively that males have a physiological advantage 
over women, including body size; greater muscle mass; increased 
lung capacity; larger hearts, bone density, and mass; and less 
body fat.
    These differences create significant performance gaps 
between post-pubescent males and females. And these are the 
facts. And those who claim otherwise are threatening the 
integrity of Title IX and the ability of women to compete on an 
equal playing field.
    The Department of Education's proposed rule conflates sex 
with gender identity and block schools from adopting and 
enforcing policies that altogether ban transgender students 
competing on teams consistent with their gender identity. This 
move sacrifices the integrity of sports, denying the importance 
of maintaining a level playing field for all athletes.
    Ms. Parshall Perry, you previously wrote that, rather than 
clarifying Title IX's application to sex-based criteria to 
athletics, that this proposal complicates it. Could you 
elaborate on that?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. It makes something that was previously 
very cut-and-dried, very simple, and for which there are five 
decades of jurisprudence and congressional history, and 
suddenly likes to pretend that we do not understand what this 
definition of ``sex'' was.
    In fact, this took--this particular law that we discuss 
today was the result of 250 different versions between House 
and Senate bills and months and months of negotiation. So, to 
say that somehow ``sex,'' when it was adopted, was somehow 
ambiguous is just patently untrue.
    So, what we have seen, even after Title IX was amended in 
1987 with the Civil Rights Restoration Act, there was 
specifically an opportunity to again go back to the drawing 
board to expand the definition of ``sex'' to include gender 
identity.
    This is about, at bottom, the rule of law, the 
Constitution, and congressional authority. The Biden 
Administration cannot, with the stroke of a pen, unilaterally 
redefine longstanding Federal law without going through the 
appropriate process.
    Mr. Langworthy. Thank you.
    And, Ms. Gaines, your profound dedication to sports, 
including your tenure as a swimmer at Kentucky's women's teams, 
it speaks volumes.
    Given your extensive experience, do you fear that if the 
Biden Administration redefines Title IX to encompass gender 
identity that it might deprive young women of academic and 
athletic prospects that they rightfully deserve?
    Ms. Gaines. Of course.
    As we have seen, again, at least the past year and a half 
since I have really started noticing this issue after I was 
directly impacted by it--we are seeing this as a trend, and it 
is an exponential trend, and, again, only going one way--and 
that is, adversely affecting women.
    So, I believe if the Biden Administration pursues this 
rewrite and equates sex with gender identity, this would most 
certainly negatively harm women.
    Mr. Langworthy. And as per the Washington Post, women's 
sports have seen an incredible surge, growing over 1,000 
percent in the last 50 years, and, as many have said, 3 million 
participants in 2022.
    Do you share the concerns that allowing biological men to 
dominate women's sports might discourage women and girls from 
pursuing athletics, K-12 and in higher education?
    Ms. Gaines. Absolutely. And it is not only necessarily the 
domination aspect. It is the safety aspect. It is the fear of 
speaking out. It is the locker-room aspect. Those are all 
contributors to ultimately discouraging women from playing 
sports.
    And I want to say, too, it is not about domination. A male 
playing on a women's team, even if he places dead-last, it is 
still taking a roster spot, it is still taking an opportunity 
away from a deserving woman. So, it is not all about 
domination.
    But, yes, I certainly believe this issue does discourage 
women from playing sports.
    Mr. Langworthy. Thank you.
    This intrusion threatens to undermine hard-fought progress 
and to deter future generations from embracing the 
opportunities sports offer.
    And with my remaining time, I want to turn back to you, Ms. 
Parshall Perry. What more can Congress do to ensure that the 
Biden Administration is not able to radically alter Title IX?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. A couple of things.
    First, if this rule is published, this chamber has 60 days 
to be able to vote on a congressional Review Act challenge and 
disapprove the law. I encourage the individuals who are 
forthright and brave, with a courageous steel spine, to be able 
to do just that.
    If for some reason a congressional Review Act challenge 
fails and it goes through to the Federal Register, I am quite 
certain there are a number of individual public-interest law 
firms that are ready to file suit.
    And in the interim, this chamber, as well as the upper 
chamber, should consider passing legislation specifically to 
keep sex separated and distinct by biological sex.
    Mr. Langworthy. Thank you.
    Many of us in this Committee and across Congress were 
parents and were grandparents to young women who will directly 
bear the consequences of an Administration that chooses to 
ignore a scientific reality--the clear and biological 
differences between men and women. We cannot stand by and allow 
radical policies to trample on commonsense.
    And I am proud to yield back, Madam Chair.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mrs. Luna for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Luna. Madam Chair, I would like to make a point of 
order.
    Mrs. McClain. The Subcommittee will suspend.
    State the point of order.
    Mrs. Luna. I identify with my pronouns as state and states, 
and, thus, I move to strike ``deplorable states'' from the 
record.
    Mrs. McClain. The Committee will suspend.
    The point of order is not timely due to intervening debate 
occurring after the words were said. Point of order is 
overruled.
    Mrs. Luna. Thank you.
    Ms. Gaines, are you familiar with the name Caitlyn Jenner?
    Ms. Gaines. I am.
    Mrs. Luna. Can you tell me real quick--because we are on 
time here--who Caitlyn Jenner is?
    Ms. Gaines. Yes. Caitlyn Jenner is formerly Bruce Jenner, 
who, of course, was and still is one of the world's most 
renowned and accomplished athletes, competing in the men's 
decathlon, winning gold medals and world records, but now, of 
course, has transitioned, identifies as Caitlyn Jenner, and is 
not competing in sports anymore competitively.
    Mrs. Luna. Are you aware that Caitlyn Jenner has come out 
against men competing in women's sports?
    Ms. Gaines. I am.
    Mrs. Luna. Why do you think Caitlyn Jenner did that?
    Ms. Gaines. Given the fact that he is an athlete himself, 
was an athlete, I believe he understands the differences 
between men and women.
    And given the fact that he has also transitioned, I believe 
he understands the struggles that come with gender dysphoria 
and what that looks like, has weighed the differences between 
the two, and still sees a fundamental unfairness about allowing 
men into women's sports.
    Mrs. Luna. As a Member of Congress, we are in charge of 
putting together the guidelines for our offices, specifically 
referencing sexual harassment.
    Would you consider exposing genitalia to someone who does 
not want to see that as sexual harassment?
    Ms. Gaines. I certainly would.
    Mrs. Luna. Do you feel that you have been sexually harassed 
as a result of biological men competing and having to undress 
in front of you and other women in the locker room?
    Ms. Gaines. I do. Again, nonconsensually being exploited in 
front of a fully naked and fully intact male, I believe that 
meets the definition of sexual harassment.
    Mrs. Luna. Have you ever been physically attacked by 
standing up for women's rights in sports?
    Ms. Gaines. I have.
    Mrs. Luna. Can you name the biological sexes of those that 
have attacked you?
    Ms. Gaines. They were men who were dressed as women.
    Mrs. Luna. Can you repeat that again?
    Ms. Gaines. They were males who were dressed as women.
    Mrs. Luna. So, you were attacked by men?
    Ms. Gaines. Yes.
    Mrs. Luna. Can you let me know whether or not law 
enforcement pressed charges?
    Ms. Gaines. There were no charges pressed.
    The university actually--this was at San Francisco State 
University. The university, in the days following--actually, 
that next day after this attack took place--where, again, I was 
held for ransom for 4 hours, with the police actually being 
held for ransom in the same room with me--the university 
released a statement.
    It was Dr. Jamillah Moore, who is the Vice President of the 
Student Affairs at San Francisco State University. She released 
an email to their entire student body saying she was so proud 
of their brave students for handling me in the manner that they 
did, applauded them, and then gave them counseling resources to 
help cope with my presence on their campus.
    Mrs. Luna. Do you think that there should be accountability 
for a man who hits a woman?
    Ms. Gaines. Absolutely.
    Mrs. Luna. Do you feel that you are personally being 
basically outed by even some Members up here because of the 
fact that you are standing up for women's sports?
    Ms. Gaines. Yes. I believe being called transphobic for 
saying that women deserve privacy, that we deserve safety, that 
we deserve equal opportunities, we deserve to maintain our 
dignity--I believe that is certainly an attack on my character, 
for sure.
    Mrs. Luna. I would just like to clarify for the record, I 
do believe in a woman's right for self-defense. So, I mean, as 
someone who has personally applied for my concealed carry, I 
think that you should do the same, because, obviously, you are 
being attacked. And I think that that would be a great second 
debate here with House Oversight. But I think that that is 
something that you should consider doing, being that you have 
received threats because of what you are doing currently. So, 
just for the record.
    Ms. Gaines. I am way ahead of you.
    Mrs. Luna. Good.
    I just want to close out by saying this. You know, up here, 
especially being a new mother, I find it very ironic that 
people that seem that they would champion women's rights are 
now throwing someone like you under the bus.
    And I just want to say for the record, there is no such 
thing as a ``birthing person'', it is called ``mother.'' There 
is no such thing as ``chestfeeding'', it is called 
``breastfeeding.'' And, finally, there is no such thing as 
equality for women if you are attempting to eliminate from 
sports.
    Thank you, Ms. Gaines.
    Ms. Gaines. Thank you.
    Mrs. McClain. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Sessions for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Sessions. Madam Chairman, thank you very much, and 
thank you for holding this hearing.
    I would like to, if I could, engage at least Ms. Parshall 
Perry and Ms. Russell, as coaches and people who have been into 
sport for a huge number of years.
    You have recognized the NCAA and their authority over 
sports. As it conducts itself--what I believe is, they have 
always tried to create fairness, whether it is betting, whether 
it is hundreds of rules and regulations about recruiting, 
things that they have rules on literally A to Z.
    I was an athlete. I do not remember if it was a D1 or D2 
school, quite honestly, because if I called it a D1, I think it 
used to be a D2 school; it is now a D1 school. But I was a D1 
or -2 athlete and went through a number of rules and 
regulations, and right and wrong, and good and bad, and how 
things worked, and have been used to that, as one of my sons is 
a recruited D1 athlete.
    And the NCAA has a lot of governance. And they always tend 
to know the answer. And they always tend to have a rule 
governing what I think is fairness but also safety.
    This seems like, to me, that the NCAA, if they are the 
governing body over what occurs at NCAA meets or matches, 
should be very concerned about this.
    What do you believe--where do you believe they have failed 
to provide guidance and governance and safety in this issue? 
Either one of you, please.
    Ms. Parshall Perry. I can say specifically that the NCAA 
has kicked the ball down the road, as it were. They have 
decided to leave leadership of the governing sports 
organizations to their own rules, developing whether or not 
individuals need, for example, testosterone suppression or 
whether or not sports can be separated by biological sex.
    Unfortunately, the NCAA has a significant influence. Their 
membership, their ranking system is a sword of Damocles, where 
the other athletic organizations, the managing bodies, and the 
institutions that want to maintain their ranking--whether that 
is D1, D2, or D3.
    And so, to fail to make a unified policy maintaining sex-
separated spaces, as the NCAA has recognized for years, it is 
ultimately made it harder for college administrators, who are 
now faced with the Hobson's choice of, do we forego our 
ranking, do we forego the revenue that comes with it, or do we 
essentially tow what is coming from the Federal Government's 
party line, that sex equals gender identity?
    Mr. Sessions. So, you believe they are being led in this 
case by the Federal Government?
    Ms. Parshall Perry. I think it is setting the tone for the 
entire Nation.
    Mr. Sessions. Ms. Russell?
    Ms. Russell. I would agree with Ms. Parshall Perry. The 
NCAA has passed the buck.
    I went on their website and looked at every single sport to 
see what each sport's policy was. Many of them were the 10-
nanomoles-of-testosterone level. The ones that had the 
strictest rules against biological males were triathlon and 
water polo. So, if you want your daughters to have the best 
chance to play, put them in triathlons and water polo. 
Otherwise, good luck.
    Mr. Sessions. Well, it seems to me that the NCAA has failed 
in its, what I believe is overburdensome governance, that they 
have failed in this.
    Ms. Gaines, you and I spoke last August in Colorado, and 
you were still, very appropriately, really shocked and 
surprised that this even happened without your notice, without 
your consent, without the coaches being aware. And you 
considered it to be an assault--I am going to use those terms--
that you were faced with a male in a locker room. And it is 
true that I think that there should have been some 
understanding that they were going to take advantage of you and 
the things that were of norm.
    Have you clarified your--or would you clarify your ideas 
now about how you felt with this?
    Ms. Gaines. Just as you said. I do believe it was an 
assault. And to sum it up in words here, of course, undressing 
next to a male who is also undressed, of course it is awkward, 
it is embarrassing, it is uncomfortable, but I believe the best 
words to describe this--of course, it is utter violation. It is 
betrayal by the people who were in place to protect us--at 
least supposed to protect us. And I believe the best word is 
``traumatic.''
    And not even necessarily traumatic because of what we were 
forced to see or, again, how we were forcibly exploited. It was 
traumatic to me and my teammates to know just how easy it was 
for those people in power who created these policies to totally 
dismiss our rights to privacy without even a second thought, 
without even, bare minimum, forewarning us.
    Mr. Sessions. I want to thank each of you for being here 
today.
    Madam Chairman, thank you very much. I yield back my time.
    Mrs. McClain. The Chair now recognizes the Chairman of 
Judiciary, Mr. Jordan.
    Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I want to thank all our witnesses for being here as well.
    It seems to me there are, sort of, two problems here. There 
is the fundamental problem, which is, you know, letting men 
compete against women in sports is just crazy. I love what 
Governor Huckabee Sanders said in the response to the State of 
the Union. She said, ``The divide in America today is normal 
versus crazy.'' And this is one of those obvious divides. It is 
crazy to think it is OK to let guys compete against girls in 
sports. That is just a given. The whole country knows that. 
Anyone with common sense understands that.
    But I am also more concerned--or maybe not more concerned--
just as concerned with what happens if you speak out against 
it, which is exactly what happened to Ms. Russell.
    Because, Ms. Russell, my understanding is, you had a--you 
coached, what--first, you were a Division 1 athlete; is that 
right?
    Ms. Russell. Yes, that is correct.
    Mr. Jordan. Division 1 lacrosse player. And then you 
coached for, I think, 27, if I read your thing--27, 28 years 
you coached?
    Ms. Russell. Yes.
    Mr. Jordan. So, you are not just some rookie coming in off 
the street. You have coached a long time. You have had all 
kinds of success, right? You have won awards. I think you run 
the national program at some other--not in the United States 
but somewhere, I read in your thing. Where do you run the 
national program?
    Ms. Russell. The U.S. Virgin Islands.
    Mr. Jordan. So, you are an accomplished coach. But because 
you said what was normal, you got fired. Is that right?
    Ms. Russell. Because I said what was normal, it was not 
liked.
    Mr. Jordan. Yes. And they----
    Ms. Russell. And I was canceled.
    Mr. Jordan. Well, I should not say ``fired.'' Yes, you were 
canceled, because you were not allowed to coach anymore.
    Ms. Russell. Correct.
    Mr. Jordan. They moved you somewhere else--I read your 
testimony last night. They moved you somewhere else in the 
athletic department or in the university at Oberlin. Is that 
right?
    Ms. Russell. Correct.
    Mr. Jordan. Yes.
    And I always tell people, do not think they wo not come 
after you. Because I do not think--you are not some, you know, 
crazy, right-wing, conservative Republican, are you, Ms. 
Russell? You are just a coach. In fact, you even used the 
term--what did you say? You are the ``hippie love coach''?
    Ms. Russell. That is correct.
    Mr. Jordan. That is not exactly how you describe 
Republicans--normally not how you describe Republicans.
    So, this is your words. You have been nicknamed the 
``hippie love coach.'' You worked with all your student 
athletes, even some--I think you even said some who are 
transgender.
    Ms. Russell. Yes. I have coached three transgender 
students.
    And in my support, after I spoke out, I have had many gay 
men, many lesbians, and a group of transgender athletes and 
people who are not athletes let me know that they support this. 
They support that women's sports should stay female-only.
    Mr. Jordan. Yes. And they were willing to confide in you 
because they trusted you. They knew you were a good coach. They 
knew you were there to help the student athlete. They 
understood that, and they were willing to come--but that was 
not good enough.
    This is the part that is so frightening. It is never good 
enough for the left. It has always got to be every single thing 
they want, or ``we are coming after you.'' Even if you are the 
hippie love coach, they are coming after you. And that is what 
they did to you. I mean, this is how the left, this is how the 
cancel-culture mob operates. It is a total attack.
    So, this is bigger than--as bad as it is, what Ms. Gaines 
described, what she had to go through--and if I remember your 
story right, Ms. Gaines, you won but you were not able to be 
No. 1 because of this Lia Thomas individual. You actually won 
the race. I mean, bad enough as that is, this attack on the 
First Amendment and your right to speak out against that is 
just as bad and just as scary. Because that is across the 
board.
    And I tell people all the time, you have five liberties 
under the First Amendment: your right to practice your faith, 
your right to assemble, your right to petition the government, 
free press, free speech. The most important one, by far, is 
your right to talk, because if you cannot talk, you cannot 
practice your faith, you cannot share your faith, you cannot 
petition your government.
    And you spoke out against something that anyone with any 
common sense knows is ridiculous, and they came after you.
    That is why this panel--and, Chairman, thank you for doing 
this--this panel and this subject is so darn important, because 
it is fundamental to who we are as a country. You cannot have a 
country if you are only allowed to say what the left says is 
OK.
    And for people who stand up and defend that, they need to--
Ms. Goss Graves, I do not know, I was not able to be here for 
all of this, but my guess is you are defending this idea that 
guys can compete against girls. Maybe not. I did not hear it. 
Do not think they wo not come after you at some point too.
    I mean, here is how bad the left is. The left--the left--
Dianne Feinstein, liberal, iconic Senator for the left, was not 
even good enough for the left. It was the Dianne Feinstein 
Elementary School in San Francisco--they went back and found 
something she said 30 years ago, and they said, we have got to 
rename the school.
    So, no one is safe. If they can go after Ms. Russell, 27 
years coaching, for saying something that everybody knows is 
true, they can come after anybody. And that is a dangerous 
world to live in.
    I did not mean to speak that long. I actually wanted to let 
you guys talk. Ms. Gaines or Ms. Parshall Perry, if you want to 
say something, go right ahead.
    Ms. Parshall Perry. I think what we are seeing is sort of 
this philosophical devolution on truth. We have gone from an 
ontological perspective on truth--truth is truth, no matter how 
you feel--to a consequentialist approach on truth--truth is 
truth, so long as it does not hurt your feelings.
    The law does not care about feelings. The law is the law, 
so that we have a method of American constitutional governance. 
And Title IX and the Constitution are very cut-and-dried. It 
does not matter whose feelings are hurt.
    And if there are indeed less than one percent of 
individuals in the country who are transgender, as 
Representative Garcia mentioned, why the urgency from the Biden 
Department of Education to suddenly upend 50 years of civil-
rights protections for biological women who benefit----
    Mr. Jordan. Great.
    Ms. Perry [continuing]. From Title IX? That is throwing the 
entire canon of civil-rights law on its head.
    Mr. Jordan. Thank you all.
    Madam Chair, I yield back. Thank you.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Greene for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Greene. Thank you. And thank you, Chairwoman McClain, 
for holding this hearing. It is extremely important.
    I say that not only as a former athlete but also very proud 
mother of a daughter who played her entire life, earned her D1 
scholarship to her sport, which was softball. I am so proud of 
her, proud of her records. And I am also very grateful. She 
never had her opportunities, her records she set, stolen from 
her from a biological man trying to replace her, beat her, 
dominate her in her sport. So, I am very thankful.
    I cannot believe we are here, though. I cannot believe we 
are holding a hearing today. As a matter of fact, I cannot 
believe many things.
    Today, we have something called ``gender-affirming care'' 
in our country, which is really cutting off the body parts of 
people in order to make them feel like they are another gender, 
which is completely wrong. And this is something being pushed 
on kids, cutting off their breasts, castrating them, which 
really will lead to lifelong debilitating conditions, physical 
conditions, and mental illness--hopefully not suicide, but 
unfortunately that is the case.
    Reproductive healthcare has been mentioned here, even the 
term ``reproductive justice,'' which is really capital 
punishment for innocent babies. There is nothing reproductive 
about abortion. It is murder.
    But one thing I would like to talk about right now is a 
Gallup poll that was done in May 2023. Sixty-nine percent say 
transgender athletes should play on teams that match their 
birth gender or biological sex.
    But guess what? That has actually gone up, because the left 
is losing the battle. Because in 2020, May 2020, the exact same 
Gallup poll was done, and it was only 62 percent that agreed 
that transgender athletes should play on teams that match their 
birth gender or biological sex.
    So, watching biological men dominating real women in sports 
is moving America's opinion to defend biological women and 
Title XI. This is a losing issue for Democrats because America 
fully agrees we have to protect women's sports.
    Ms. Goss Graves, in 2013 the National Women's Law Center 
tweeted, ``What have sports meant to you or a girl you know? 
Tweet it with the hashtag''--and then you put the hashtag.
    You responded, ``National Girls and Women in Sports Day. I 
am grateful to tennis. It is my late-night outlet that I still 
play 20 years after high school.''
    Do you still play tennis, Ms. Goss Graves?
    Ms. Goss Graves. Not well anymore. My knees struggle.
    Ms. Greene. But it is a great sport, and it is always fun.
    Ms. Goss Graves. Yes. I have enjoyed playing it.
    Ms. Greene. And you mentioned that you are a fan of Serena 
Williams. Is that right?
    Ms. Goss Graves. I am. I am a Williams sisters fan. I am a 
tennis fan. I am actually a fan of most sports. I grew up 
playing sports and in a family that understood that there is so 
much value in playing sports, whether you are the best or not 
the best.
    Ms. Greene. I agree with you. And I am a fan of Serena 
Williams too. I think she is strong, I think she is powerful, 
and I think she is beautiful.
    In 2013, Serena Williams stated, ``If I were to play Andy 
Murray, I would lose 6-0, 6-0, in 5 to 6 minutes, maybe 10 
minutes. No, it is true. It is a completely different sport. 
The men are a lot faster, and they serve harder, they hit 
harder. It is just a different game.''
    So, it sounds like she does not think she could beat men 
either.
    But let us talk about some of your comments. You said that 
this is attacking and dehumanizing on trans.
    Ms. Goss Graves, how do you think Ms. Gaines felt? Do you 
think she felt dehumanized, being forced to undress in front of 
men in her sports, or attacked?
    Ms. Goss Graves. Here is what I think about----
    Ms. Greene. That is a ``yes'' or ``no'' question.
    Ms. Goss Graves. But, if I could----
    Ms. Greene. Being forced to undress in front of a man, 
isn't that dehumanizing or attacking?
    Ms. Goss Graves. If I could answer this question, Madam 
Chairman, because I actually think this is really, really 
important.
    The issue of privacy in locker rooms and in bathrooms, 
there is a wide range of ways and rules to----
    Ms. Greene. So, you feel like Ms. Gaines should have had 
privacy?
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Address that. You could put 
up a curtain. You could put up a door. You could have 
rotations. There are so many----
    Ms. Greene. I reclaim my time, Ms. Goss Graves.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Ways to address that. And----
    Ms. Greene. Ms. Gaines, did you feel attacked and 
dehumanized?
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] What I have----
    Ms. Greene. Ms. Gaines, did you feel attacked and 
dehumanized?
    Ms. Gaines. I certainly did. And in swimming locker rooms, 
there are no curtains, there are no stalls, there are no 
doors----
    Ms. Goss Graves. But there could be. There could be 
curtains----
    Ms. Greene. I reclaim my time. It is Ms. Gaines' right now.
    Ms. Gaines. That would be restructuring how I have competed 
my entire 18 years of competing for what we have described in 
this hearing today as such a small percentage of the 
population.
    We would restructure and uproot what we are used to and 
what works and allows us to be--I think we can all agree, a 
locker room, in general, is not a comfortable place, even, of 
course, undressing in front of all women. But growing up a 
swimmer in that environment, again, for 18 years of my life, 
you become comfortable being vulnerable in that environment. 
And I had, and my teammates and my competitors, we had our 
vulnerability stripped from us by the leaders of the NCAA and, 
again, those who implemented this policy.
    Ms. Greene. Thank you, Ms. Gaines.
    I yield.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Burchett for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Burchett. Thank you, Chairlady. And thank you for 
bringing this important matter to our attention.
    Ms. Gaines, in your experience, do the biological men 
competing in women's sports start competing before or after 
taking hormones?
    Ms. Gaines. I guess it depends, but I have certainly seen 
both ways.
    Mr. Burchett. Both? OK.
    What guidelines does the National Collegiate Athletic 
Association, NCAA, have regarding male-to-female student 
athletes being treated with testosterone suppression?
    Ms. Gaines. Well, from 2010 to 2022, they had a blanket 
policy in place for all sports that said just 12 months of 
hormone replacement therapy and you compete with the team that 
aligns with your gender identity.
    But now the NCAA--and I think this is incredibly telling--
they are in a phase-out approach, meaning they want nothing to 
do with the topic, which I think is--again, if they 
wholehearted stood by the fact that they believed males could 
be women and become the same as women, they would stand by 
their policy, but they are not.
    They want to leave the responsibility and accountability up 
to each specific sport governing body. I believe they are in 
phase three or so of this approach, and it should be done by 
2024 or 2025.
    Mr. Burchett. Wouldn't men competing in women's sports at 
the collegiate level have already gone through puberty?
    Ms. Gaines. Again, I do not know the exact statistic, but 
every single male that I have seen competing at the collegiate 
level in the women's category has gone through male puberty.
    Mr. Burchett. Right.
    If a male takes a year of testosterone suppressants, does 
his bone structure and muscle mass change enough for him to be 
similar to biological women?
    Ms. Gaines. No, nor does his height, nor does his lung 
capacity, nor----
    Mr. Burchett. All right.
    Ms. Gaines [continuing]. Does his heart size, his wingspan, 
foot size. The list goes on.
    Mr. Burchett. And doesn't testosterone have permanent 
effects through early life exposure?
    Ms. Gaines. Of course.
    Mr. Burchett. OK.
    Ms. Gaines, another question. Once a man has started 
competing on a women's teams, do they ever switch back to 
compete on male teams?
    Ms. Gaines. Not that I have seen.
    Actually, I will say, there was a half-marathon runner--or, 
a marathon runner who just won in the open category, the non-
binary division, at the Boston Marathon. Again, a male 
identifying as a woman, he has competed just this year alone in 
the men's, women's, and open category.
    Mr. Burchett. OK.
    Ms. Goss Graves, in 2022, you tweeted, ``Maybe anti-trans 
laws are not actually about protecting women's sports.'' Now, 
that is not true. These laws are not only are to protect 
women's sports but women too.
    Last year, a biological male playing on a women's 
volleyball team spiked a high-speed ball into a girl's face, 
causing a concussion. And I believe I have the video, if we can 
show that.
    [Video shown.]
    Mr. Burchett. You see he just rifled it right into her 
head.
    And that is not only example. Recently, during a field 
hockey game in Massachusetts, a biological male hit a female 
player in the face, reportedly knocking her teeth out. In 
another instance, three female rugby players were injured by a 
biological male player.
    These are not just things that just--these are not just 
rare occurrences. You can find them all over the place, even in 
Tennessee, if you would look close enough.
    Ms. Goss Graves, do you have any concerns at all about 
biological males competing in women's sports injuring females?
    Ms. Goss Graves. I have deep concerns around injuries, 
generally, in sports. And I think the answer for this body, if 
they are interested, are the sorts of resources that reduce 
injuries----
    Mr. Burchett. No, but I mean, are they not higher among 
biological men?
    [Crosstalk.]
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Facilities, equipment.
    I mean, the thing is--I know this is hard to hear--that 
people who play sports, that injury is a part of it. And it is 
unfortunate. And yet people still play, because they love it, 
they love playing.
    Mr. Burchett. Yes, ma'am, but when you----
    Ms. Goss Graves. I did, too, as a kid.
    Mr. Burchett [continuing]. Take away their ability----
    Ms. Goss Graves. I understand that.
    Mr. Burchett [continuing]. To compete against some--ma'am, 
I am talking, please. I apologize. But when you take away their 
ability to compete by putting someone who is far superior 
biologically--that is the way God made them; that may come as 
some disruptive talk to some folks up here, but that is just 
the way it is--it is not fair.
    So that was basically a ``yes'' to my question. And I want 
to----
    Ms. Goss Graves. No, I do not think it was. I think what I 
was trying to say, that I am concerned about injuries in 
sports, and I think there are things to do to reduce injuries 
in sports, and that additional resources to ensure things like 
coaching, to ensure things like equipment are more equal----
    Mr. Burchett. OK. Let me stop you.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Would actually reduce 
injuries that girls across this country face because they play 
sports.
    Mr. Burchett. Yes, ma'am, but they do not play contact 
sports against men.
    Now, Ms. Gaines, would you care to comment on that?
    Ms. Gaines. Yes, I absolutely agree. Allowing men into 
women's sports of course increases the severity and the greater 
likelihood of women getting injured. And to ignore that is 
entirely disingenuous.
    And let me just add one more point about the NCAA 
championships, in particular, that I find to be incredibly 
interesting, that we have not talked about in this Committee.
    In that same meet where we had Thomas, who, of course, is a 
male identifying as a woman, we had another trans athlete, who 
was a female identifying as a man. We were told we had to refer 
to this person using he/him pronouns.
    And so, I guess I wish there were more Democratic Members 
on the Committee, because I would love to ask, just plain and 
simple, the question of, do we believe that that person that we 
were forced to compete against, from Yale, Izzi Henig, who now 
identifies as Iszac Henig, should compete against the men? And 
why did this person compete with the women? And I can answer 
that question. It is because Izzi, now Iszac, would never and 
will never be able to compete at the same level against the 
males.
    So not only were we, I guess, facing this discrimination 
against male athletes, we also had a female identifying as a 
man competing with the women, which I have no problem with if 
there was no testosterone being taken.
    Mr. Burchett. Thank you all, and thank you ladies.
    There are Democrats on this Committee. They just chose not 
to be here because this is obviously such an obvious answer to 
these questions.
    Thank you, Chairlady.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. LaMalfa for 5 minutes.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate you 
allowing me to sit in on Committee here today.
    It is a lot of contentious discussion here today. We have 
seen a lot of name-calling, people referring to people with 
different ideas or disagreements as some type of--phobes, 
transphobes or homophobes or whatever. And that is not really a 
place for you to have ideas or discussion about differences on 
important issues.
    So, I have even seen, in my home state of California, where 
parents would want to talk with their children about if they 
are feeling feelings of wanting to associate with another 
gender, for example, that our California legislature has shut 
down the ability for kids to have counseling.
    So, if there is--phobes on this--I saw, at the beginning of 
the hearing, Ms. Gaines was moved by a Democrat Member to have 
her words taken down because she cared to disagree with the 
name-calling that was being called her and, instead, put one 
back on and said, well, maybe you are a misogynist for not 
agreeing, you know.
    So, it is pretty discouraging that you cannot have a 
rational conversation here, so--or even counseling for kids in 
California. It looks a lot like canceling to me.
    So, I wanted to--a question for Ms. Goss Graves there.
    Now, you are the president of what is known as the National 
Women's Law Center, right?
    Ms. Goss Graves. That is correct.
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK.
    So, we saw this report where a girl on a school trip was 
forced to share a bed in a motel room, I guess for expediency. 
I think she was about seventh grade, and a boy who was probably 
about seventh grade.
    Does that seem like a good idea at that age? And what would 
the parents think about it, let alone what would the girl think 
about that? Is that a policy that your organization would 
support?
    Ms. Goss Graves. I am sorry, I do not--I am struggling to 
understand the example that you are talking about. There was a 
school trip----
    Mr. LaMalfa. It has been widely reported that----
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Where were boys and girls 
sharing a bed?
    Mr. LaMalfa. Yes.
    Ms. Goss Graves. I have never heard----
    Mr. LaMalfa. A school trip.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Of this happening.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Well, as a policy, as a generic policy, what 
would you think of that?
    Ms. Goss Graves. I would advise that schools not require 
their students to share beds.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Well----
    Ms. Goss Graves. I mean, I do not----
    Mr. LaMalfa. Maybe for expediency for a trip, girls with 
girls, boys with boys, whatever, if that is what they came up 
with.
    In this case here, because they wanted to protect this 
identity, they forced this girl to be in that situation, 
sharing with a boy. Does that seem like a good idea to you?
    Ms. Goss Graves. So, are you trying to call a transgender 
girl a boy? I am just trying to understand the example that you 
are giving me.
    But, in any event----
    Mr. LaMalfa. You know what I am talking about, a----
    Ms. Goss Graves. So, here is what I would say. I would 
advise schools to not have students share beds. I would advise 
schools to be really clear, if they have----
    Mr. LaMalfa. In this case, they required them, because that 
is what they did, and they required this girl to share with a 
boy, so----
    Ms. Goss Graves. Well, I would advise against it. So----
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] I would say that that----
    Mr. LaMalfa. All right.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Is not a good idea. Schools 
have----
    Mr. LaMalfa. All right. All right. Let us move----
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] A longstanding obligation to 
address----
    Mr. LaMalfa. Let us move to a different question.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Harassment and create----
    Mr. LaMalfa. Let us move to a different question. So----
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Conditions where students can 
thrive.
    Mr. LaMalfa [continuing]. In general, it does not sound 
like that is for girl's and women's safety.
    I have not heard your organization yet speak out against 
the horrific--or condemn publicly, what is going on with Hamas 
and the Jewish women that were dismembered by rape, by torture, 
the dehumanizing of Jewish women. Would you like to, here, 
clarify for us how your organization would feel about that?
    Ms. Goss Graves. So, rape in conflict and the information 
that has come out about what happened to women in Israel is 
horrific and devastating and godawful.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Well, many lead organizations have not even 
expressed anything. It seems to be pro-Hamas. Is your 
organization willing to go on the record to say, we are against 
what Hamas did to women, we are against----
    Ms. Goss Graves. I mean----
    Mr. LaMalfa. [continuing] We are against Hamas?
    Ms. Goss Graves. So, I should just be really clear, I do 
not support groups, but I also do not do global work. I work--
--
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK. All right.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] In the United States----
    Mr. LaMalfa. All right.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] On gender----
    Mr. LaMalfa. All right.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Justice issues.
    Mr. LaMalfa. I will reclaim my time. Thank you.
    Ms. Goss Graves. But I am an expert----
    Mr. LaMalfa. Reclaiming my time.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] On sexual violence----
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] And rape is horrific in any 
setting. And the----
    Mr. LaMalfa. Sure.
    Ms. Goss Graves. [continuing] Fact that in the context of 
war and conflict----
    Mr. LaMalfa. Reclaiming my time, please.
    Ms. Gaines, I would like to switch a question to you.
    Ms. Goss Graves. This is so important, and I do not want to 
leave any misunderstanding.
    Mr. LaMalfa. You did not answer the question directly, and 
that is----
    Mrs. McClain. Well, he has reclaimed his time.
    Ms. Goss Graves. OK.
    Mr. LaMalfa. So, Ms. Gaines, again, you have been 
courageous in your battle, with the name-calling and the stuff 
that happened in San Francisco.
    Let me talk about, real quick, when you have transgender 
athletes, as they are called, participating in a sport, and let 
us say in track, for example, the top two are former males, 
they claim the top two spots, they qualify for, you know, 
scholarships in college, the first two places at the national 
meets, what does that feel like for the girls?
    Do they, A, want to start boycotting games where there is 
males playing? Or do they just want to give up altogether? What 
is that going to do for women's sports if more and more of this 
happens?
    Ms. Gaines. It is certainly a mix. There are some women who 
would love to boycott, but we have been told, you know, you 
signed a scholarship. So, there is fear of retaliation from 
your school.
    There are some women who were so discouraged they quit. 
Speaking of, again, the case that we saw with Lia Thomas--I 
know I have referenced it a lot, but it is, of course, my lived 
experience--the University of Princeton had, I believe, 13 of 
their swimmers quit the sport entirely, to stop playing, being 
in the Ivy League, having to deal with this time and time and 
time again. And after talking with those girls, they explicitly 
stated they quit because they were subjected to allowing men 
into their sports and locker rooms.
    Mr. LaMalfa. So, if the girls do not want to share a bed, 
they do not want to share a locker room, if they feel like they 
are being violated, and they finally sit out the sport, is that 
really good for, for example, executives? Ninety-four percent--
--
    Mrs. McClain. The----
    Mr. LaMalfa [continuing]. Of executives have been in 
women's sports. It is probably not good for them, huh?
    Ms. Gaines. No.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you.
    Mrs. McClain. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate it.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you. Thank you.
    In closing, I want to thank all of you very much for taking 
time out of your day to be here today. I want to thank you for 
your testimony. I know it is heartfelt, and I appreciate it. It 
means a lot to me, as a mother, as an athlete, as a coach, as a 
woman. So, thank you for being here.
    I now want to close, and I want to yield to the Ranking 
Member, Ms. Lee, for her closing remarks.
    Ms. Lee?
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    First, I just want to seek unanimous consent to enter into 
the record this statement by the National Center for 
Transgender Equity--excuse me, Equality.
    Mrs. McClain. So, ordered.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you.
    A recurring theme from my Republican colleagues and their 
witnesses is that trans girls are more likely to injure other 
players during sports.
    I would like to read a statement by a trans female high-
school rugby player. And I quote: ``At 5-foot-7 and 
approximately 140 pounds, I routinely go up against other 
women, from 5-foot-3, 100-pound players who are quick and 
agile, to 6-feet-tall, 250-pound women who are nearly double my 
size.''
    She continued, and I quote: ``And during a scrimmage a few 
weeks later, I had my arm broken in a collision with a 
cisgender player. While unfortunately I cannot help but 
chuckle, because my experience is the opposite of narratives 
playing on unfounded fears, that cisgender women face a higher 
risk of injury from transgender women on the field. My 
colleagues are grasping at straws for arguments that support 
their transphobic and dangerous stereotypical views of women's 
bodies.''
    I think this hearing has shown how vital immediate action 
is to protect our transgender young people. On April 6, 2023, 
the Department of Education announced a proposed revision to 
Title IX regulations on students' eligibility for athletic 
teams. The Administration's proposed revision to Title IX would 
prevent institutions that receive Federal funding from applying 
blanket sex-related criteria that would limit or deny a 
student's ability to participate on a male or female team 
consistent with their gender identity. This proposed revision 
must be finalized.
    We have seen how, without these protections, Title IX can 
be weaponized against transgender students. During her time 
running the Department of Education, Secretary DeVos repeatedly 
leveraged Title IX's prohibition of sex discrimination to roll 
back protections for transgender student athletes.
    For example, in May 2020, the Department of Education 
prevented a Connecticut high school from maintaining its policy 
allowing transgender students to participate in athletics on a 
team corresponding to their gender identity.
    In another case from 2020, Secretary DeVos's department 
successfully forced Franklin Pierce University to rescind its 
transgender participation and inclusion policy, despite the 
policy's compliance with the NCAA guidance for transgender 
athletes.
    We need our Department of Education to be able to stand up 
and defend our transgender students, because they, like all 
willing young people, deserve to participate in sports. 
Transgender youth participate in sports for the same reasons as 
everyone else--to build and nurture friendships, increase self-
esteem, and develop crucial skills like teamwork and 
discipline.
    Equal access to school programs goes hand-in-hand with 
academic excellence. The Travel Project found that transgender 
and non-binary athletes had significantly higher grades than 
their transgender and non-binary peers who do not participate 
in sports.
    You do not have to be an expert on what it means to be 
transgender to understand that singling out a small group of 
youth who simply want to participate with their peers is not 
how we, as elected officials, should be spending our time. 
These youth already face stigma and bullying, and these attacks 
only exacerbate those challenges.
    Youth sports should be open to all, and policing the bodies 
or appearances of our youth hurts everyone. The anti-trans 
sports bills being signed into law across the country seek to 
create a problem that just does not exist, all for the sake of 
perpetuating hate against vulnerable groups.
    This is not about preserving competition in sports. It is a 
way to mobilize would-be voters by turning trans rights into a 
political football.
    I encourage the Department of Education to prioritize 
finalizing this proposed revision to protect our transgender 
youths. And I encourage my Republican colleagues to stop 
picking on kids.
    I yield back.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Ms. Lee.
    Whatever happened to ``I am woman, hear me roar''? What--
what--have we lost our minds?
    I sat here and listened to every--every label imaginable. I 
am here to protect women, girls. My God, why do I have to 
apologize for that? We spent decades trying to protect women, 
and you know what? We won. We won. So, I will not apologize now 
or ever for trying to protect my daughters and women in sports. 
And that is what this hearing was about, protecting women.
    So, you know what? I am a woman, and let me tell you, hear 
me roar, because I will not stop protecting women. You want to 
know why? Because we have rights too. Women have rights too. 
And our daughters have rights too. Let me be explicitly clear 
on that. And I will never stop protecting our daughters. I will 
never stop protecting women. That is my job as a mother, and it 
is the right thing to do.
    This hearing today has been extremely informative and 
heartbreaking. Frankly, I am mystified by the Biden 
Administration's shameless failure to protect women's rights. 
We talk about protecting women's rights like that is such a bad 
thing, that that is so evil, to protect women's rights. Have we 
lost our mind?
    The Administration's proposed Title IX rule will rewind 
decades of progress in women's rights. The Biden Administration 
is weakening Title IX by allowing all males who identify as 
women to participate in women's sports. OK. ``Identify as 
women.'' How about just be a woman? Why can't I protect my 
women? Why can't I protect my daughters?
    Title IX was implemented by Congress to give women equal 
educational opportunities, including within federally funded 
school athletic programs. No, we are not there. Do we have a 
lot of work to do? You are doggone right we do. But if this 
language gets in by the Biden Administration, it will 
definitely not help women, I can assure you that. It will not 
help us on the progress route.
    The Biden Administration's rule would eliminate women's 
sports as we know it. That is a fact. And you know how it 
starts? It starts little by little by little by little. All you 
have got to do is look at--it is called the salami mentality. 
Little by little by little. It starts by just a little, and 
then, before you know it, look at our tax system, right?
    As we have discussed today, the Biden Administration has no 
legal grounds to support this rule. Congress is the Nation's 
lawmaking body, not unelected bureaucrats in the Biden 
Administration.
    In this world--in a world where biological males compete in 
women's sports, women lose access to roster spots. It is true. 
It is not about your feelings. It is the fact. Women lose 
championships, records, and scholarships. That is just a fact. 
I am sorry if it does not fit your narrative, but it is the 
fact.
    Women face serious injuries from contact sports with 
physically biological--or larger biological males. Again, do 
not let the facts gets in the way of a good story.
    Women face emotional trauma of exposure to biological males 
in spaces that should be safe and private for women, like the 
locker room.
    And why should women have to change all the time? It would 
have been nice if we would have gotten a little heads-up, 
Riley, huh, about, hey, we have got a biological male 
competing. It would have been nice to have a heads-up. Then 
maybe we could have put the curtain up. But we do not even 
bother to tell anybody.
    What about defending our women? What about defending my 
daughters? Don't I have a right? You know what? I say, yes, I 
do.
    The proposed Department of Education rules will do nothing 
to preserve the safety or fairness of women's sports. This is 
about protecting girls and women. This is about protecting our 
daughters, our sisters, our nieces, and our granddaughters. And 
you know what? Lisa McClain is here to fight for them.
    That is why I have drafted a bill, Save Women's Sports Act, 
to protect sports and fair competition across the Nation. 
Remember Title IX that we fought so hard for? My bill prohibits 
any school or university that receives Federal funding from 
allowing biological males from participating in women's sports.
    So, you can do it; we are just not funding it. If schools 
violate the provision of this bill, they lose access to all 
Federal funding. You can be who you want to be, but the 
American people do not have to fund it, especially since about 
70 percent of them actually agree with me.
    Simply put, this bill will stop the pattern of unremarkable 
male athletes that switch to women's sports and suddenly come 
in first place, men like those we have heard stories about--men 
like the ones that we have heard stories about today.
    I ask my colleagues to join me in protecting women's sports 
by signing this bill.
    In closing, again, I want to thank our panelists once again 
for your brave and important testimony today. I am sure you are 
going to get canceled. I am sure I am going to get canceled. 
But you know what that tells me? My ladder's on the right wall 
and I am doing the right thing.
    Thank you for sharing your stories. I do appreciate it.
    And, with that, without objection, all Members have 5 
legislative days within which to submit materials and 
additional written questions for the witnesses, which will be 
forwarded to the witnesses.
    Mrs. McClain. If there is no further business, without 
objection, the Subcommittee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 6:05 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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