[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                       ALL HANDS ON DECK: ENDING
                   VETERAN HOMELESSNESS IN SAN DIEGO

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                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                         THURSDAY, MAY 4, 2023

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-11

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       

                    Available via http://govinfo.gov
                    
                               __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
52-491 PDF                   WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
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                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                 DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman

NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California Ranking 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Member
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
                                     DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                        
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                         THURSDAY, MAY 4, 2023

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman........................     1
The Honorable Mike Levin, Ranking Member.........................     2
The Honorable Mark Takano, Ranking Member, Full Committee........     5
The Honorable Young Kim, U.S. House of Representatives, (CA-40)..     7

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel 1

Mr. Frank P. Pearson, DPT, PA-C, Director, Jennifer Moreno VA San 
  Diego Healthcare System........................................     8

        Accompanied by:

    Ms. Jill Albanese, Senior Advisor and Director of Clinical 
        Operations, Homeless Program Office

Ms. Leilani A. Hines, Housing and Neighborhood Services Director, 
  Oceanside Public Housing Authority.............................    10

Mr. David Estrella, Director of Housing and Community 
  Development, San Diego County Public Housing Authority.........    12

Mr. Matthew Wechter, Supervising Attorney, Public Defendant 
  Homeless Court Team, San Diego County..........................    14

                                Panel 2

Mr. Greg Anglea, CEO, Interfaith Community Services..............    30

Ms. Hanan Scrapper, Regional Director, PATH San Diego, People 
  Assisting the Homeless (PATH)..................................    32

Dr. Dustin Potash, Veterans Director, Adjoin.....................    34

Mr. Sean Spear, President and CEO, Community Housing Works.......    35

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Mr. Frank Pearson Prepared Statement.............................    45
Ms. Leilani A. Hines Prepared Statement..........................    51
Mr. David Estrella Prepared Statement............................    60
Mr. Matthew Wechter Prepared Statement...........................    61
Mr. Greg Anglea Prepared Statement...............................    63
Ms. Hanan Scrapper Prepared Statement............................    67
Dr. Dustin Potash Prepared Statement.............................    68
Mr. Sean Spear Prepared Statement................................    71

                        Statement For The Record

San Diego Housing Commission.....................................    75

 
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                         THURSDAY, MAY 4, 2023

             U.S. House of Representatives,
              Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
                            Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 1:38 p.m., 
Little Theater, MiraCosta College, 1 Barnard Drive, Oceanside, 
California, Hon. Derrick Van Orden, (chairman of the 
subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Van Orden, Kim, Levin, and Takano.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN

    Mr. Van Orden. The subcommittee will come to order.
    In accordance with Committee Rule 5(e), I ask unanimous 
consent that Representative Kim from California be permitted to 
participate in today's subcommittee hearing.
    All right. So ordered.
    Good afternoon. First, I want to thank all of you for 
joining us today at this field hearing for the Subcommittee on 
Economic Opportunity for Veterans on the House Veterans Affairs 
Committee.
    I want to thank the staff for setting everything up. We 
have got all the sound people that flew out here from D.C. and 
spending time away from your homes. I want to thank you for 
doing that.
    My name is Derrick Van Orden, and not only is it my 
pleasure to serve as the Congressman for the 3rd congressional 
District but also I have the honor to serve as the chairman of 
this subcommittee.
    This morning we are at the United States Navy SEAL Team 
headquarters in Coronado, California, dealing with transition 
issues to make sure that we do not have to have this 
conversation much longer because part of making sure our 
veterans do not wind up homeless is to make sure they can go 
from being an active duty service member to being a productive 
member of society.
    My background with homelessness and homeless veterans is I 
worked at First Presbyterian Church cooking at their soup 
kitchen for several years, which is right in downtown San 
Diego.
    My roommate from Navy SEAL training was on the homeless 
outreach task force working as a nurse and so I have a real 
understanding of what is taking place in the veterans' 
community and then also the homeless community writ large, and 
so I am very thankful that this is Ranking Member Levin's 
legislative priority.
    Before we begin I want to say it is nice to be here in 
Southern California. You see my face is a little red because I 
pulled the rookie move yesterday again. The overcast, do not 
worry about sunscreen. That happened.
    This campus is absolutely beautiful. I talked to some of 
the facilities ladies here earlier that got things set up. It 
was very kind of them to show us around, and I appreciate so 
much how the staffs have been working together, including Mr. 
Vogt who was able to make it down to Coronado today to meet my 
SEAL brothers. That was wonderful.
    Then the people of the 49th District are lucky to have our 
ranking member as your representative. He is just doing a great 
job.
    Today we are here to discuss any veterans' homelessness in 
both the greater San Diego area and across the country. This 
topic is one of the reasons I actually ran for Congress, 
because I have a heart for this.
    Permanent housing is an essential component to a stable 
life. After a veteran transitions out of active duty and 
without a home it is much harder to maintain a stable job, 
continuing to acclimate to civilian life, and maintain mental 
health.
    This subcommittee in the past has done an amazing job 
improving programs for veterans but we still have a lot of work 
to do. Improving the Department of Housing and Urban 
Development-Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing (HUD-VASH) 
voucher program, finding a new grant and per diem rate, retain 
VA employees that serve homeless veterans, and getting the VA 
to actually hire more employees with the funds Congress has 
given them are all areas that we are going to continue to work 
on.
    However, it is important that both Congress and the 
Department of Veterans Affairs administer and evaluate these 
programs in a way that ensures veterans are housed in a way 
that is fiscally responsible.
    We have got to find ways to fund these essential programs 
without putting a huge financial burden on the backs of the 
taxpayers now and in the future. These can both exist in the 
same universe.
    We also need to ensure that these programs we have already 
are paid for--that have been paid for by Congress are run as 
intended and we have got to pass programs without ever doing--
excuse me, we must pass programs and continue to do the 
oversight on them and this can never be at the expense of 
veterans getting the services they need.
    Hopefully, we are going to hear from the VA today and local 
government and community providers about the impact of programs 
the subcommittee has already enacted and find new ways to 
improve the lives of America's veterans, and, simply put, we 
just have a lot of work to do, and I am a retired enlisted guy 
so I know how to work.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about how they 
believe what works, what needs to be improved, and how Congress 
can employ them to ensure that no veteran goes unhoused across 
our country.
    I now yield to the ranking member for his opening remarks.
    Mr. Levin. Well, thank you so much, Chairman Van Orden.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF MIKE LEVIN, RANKING MEMBER

    I, first, want to welcome you and thank you for coming to 
our beautiful congressional district. I am so glad that the sun 
is shining. I was a little worried when it was raining this 
morning.
    Very, very grateful to work with you in a collaborative 
manner and also very grateful to both Ranking Member Takano, 
who did a wonderful job as our chairman for these past 4 years, 
and my friend, Young Kim, from not too far away in Orange 
County have also joined us.
    As I mentioned outside, these opportunities to get together 
on a bipartisan basis and learn about each other's districts 
and priorities are rare in the Congress of the United States. I 
hope that you know our commitment to doing that on the House 
Veterans Affairs Committee.
    Today's hearing is centered around the need for all hands 
on deck, which in this case is in reference to the critical 
work of our Marines at Camp Pendleton or sailors down in San 
Diego.
    Rather, we are here to discuss how we can employ all 
available resources to end veteran homelessness in the San 
Diego region. The rate of veteran homelessness in San Diego 
County has dropped by nearly 30 percent over the last 4 years 
and that is thanks to a lot of people in this room, and that is 
according to `22--but according to the `22 point in time count 
conducted in our communities nearly 700 veterans are still 
experiencing homelessness, including 88 here in the city of 
Oceanside.
    In February of this year the Board of Supervisors for San 
Diego County approved this all hands on deck approach to 
reaching functional zero for veteran homelessness in our 
region.
    This approach will require the input, expertise, and hard 
work of every person in this room and many others who are 
unable to join us today to reach our shared goal of ensuring 
that every veteran has a place to call home.
    I want to thank all the dedicated organizations, the 
practitioners, and the experts who are here with us today, some 
of whom you are going to hear from who have been doing this 
critical work for a very long time and will continue doing so 
together.
    There is not a single cure-all to veteran homelessness just 
as there is not a single cause of veteran homelessness. 
Homelessness occurs as the result of complex factors and 
experiences that veterans face, some of which may be related to 
their military service.
    That is why we must take a multifaceted approach to address 
the underlying specific needs of each individual veteran to 
ultimately end homelessness.
    I convened this hearing with my friend, Chairman Van Orden, 
who is doing a great job with that gavel, with the thought in 
mind to bring organizations across our homelessness prevention 
and response system together to speak how their services 
integrate to meet veterans where they are on their journey to 
stable housing.
    As difficult of a time as we faced during COVID-19 we 
learned quite a bit about what is going to--what it is going to 
take to end veteran homelessness and the three key elements of 
that solution, urgency, resources and flexibility.
    During the pandemic, Congress acted swiftly to give VA and 
community providers the resources and the flexibility that they 
needed to ensure the safety and health of unhoused veterans and 
that focused effort, influx of funding, and increased authority 
resulted in a reduction in veteran homelessness across the 
country, including here in the San Diego region.
    I am working with Ranking Member Takano on a policy roadmap 
that will outline key areas where Congress can remove barriers 
at both VA and HUD to ensure a veteran's path to a home is 
smooth and quick.
    A significant roadblock that I hope to discuss today 
relates to the ongoing issue of veterans with service-connected 
disabilities being rendered ineligible for permanent supportive 
housing built specifically to serve their needs.
    Often when a developer undertakes an affordable housing 
project they accept financial incentives that come with 
restrictions on the number of units that must be set aside for 
individuals or families at certain income levels.
    Generally, this is a great practice and ensures affordable 
units are set aside for those most in need. However, when 
calculating income for eligibility purposes a veteran's 
disability compensation is included in that formula and often 
puts them over the limit.
    As a result, many veterans are deemed ineligible for 
housing specifically built for them like permanent supportive 
housing where care and resources are directly incorporated. 
This problem is only going to get worse as more veterans 
receive benefits under the Promising to Address Comprehensive 
Toxics (PACT) Act.
    I look forward to working closely with Ranking Member 
Takano to address this real obstacle to ending veteran 
homelessness and I am eager to hear today from our witnesses 
about this and other roadblocks Congress may need to address to 
ensure every veteran's housing security.
    We have with us on our first panel representatives from 
VA's San Diego Healthcare System--good to see you--a national 
homeless program office to discuss the various programs VA 
offers in the region to identify, treat, and house veterans 
experiencing homelessness.
    We also brought to the table two local housing authorities 
from right here in Oceanside and from San Diego County. The 
housing authorities play an integral role in the provision of 
permanent housing through the HUD-VASH program, which is the 
partnership between VA and the Department of Housing and Urban 
Development that connects veterans with a housing choice 
voucher and the supportive services that they need to thrive.
    I will be interested to hear the latest updates on the 
status of HUD-VASH in our community and how we can improve the 
process to more seamlessly identify housing options and connect 
veterans in need of permanent housing.
    I am also pleased that Matthew Wechter is joining us today 
from San Diego County's Homeless Court. We routinely hear and 
research shows that a top unmet need of homeless veterans is 
access to legal services.
    This innovative program employs practices that assist 
homeless individuals who have committed misdemeanors in 
accessing the services they need with a focus on rehabilitation 
and addressing the root causes of their housing insecurity. I 
hope to see more of these efforts throughout the country as we 
continue the fight to end veteran homelessness.
    On our second panel we will hear from local homeless 
service providers who execute veteran-centered programs across 
the continuum.
    We have Interfaith Community Services--I see Greg up 
there--which operates emergency and transitional housing 
through the Healthcare for Homeless Veterans program and the 
grant and per diem program.
    Their bridge and service-intensive housing in Oceanside 
bring veterans indoors to connect them with treatment options 
and wraparound services as they secure a permanent place to 
call home.
    We have People Assisting the Homeless, or Projects for 
Assistance in Transition from Homelessness (PATH), which I 
would like to welcome back to our subcommittee. PATH testified 
for us this past December in D.C. about their grant and per 
diem program.
    Today we will hear from them about Grant and Per Diem (GPD) 
as well as the rest of their extensive service offerings for 
veterans, including rapid rehousing through VA's Supportive 
Services for Veterans Families program, job training and 
placement through the Department of Labor's homeless veterans 
reintegration program, and permanent supportive housing through 
HUD-VASH.
    We also have Adjoin, which partners with VA's Supportive 
Services for Veterans Families (SSVF) program. Adjoin plays a 
critical role in homelessness prevention and housing assistance 
for very low income veterans and their families.
    They participate in executing new strategic VA resources 
like shallow subsidy, which is a vital tool to stabilize 
veterans in their permanent housing.
    Finally, we will have Community Housing Works, an 
affordable housing developer. We know that a root cause of 
homelessness throughout our country is due to a lack of 
affordable housing. I will be interested to hear the barriers 
that developers may face in constructing, operating, and 
getting veterans placed in their units.
    I am so excited to dive in the conversation today with our 
witnesses. I thank the chairman again for visiting our district 
in beautiful Oceanside.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin.
    I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, 
Mr. Takano, for any remarks he may have.

    OPENING STATEMENT OF MARK TAKANO, RANKING MEMBER, FULL 
                           COMMITTEE

    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you, Chairman Van Orden, and thank 
you, Ranking Member Levin, for inviting me back to your 
district today, and it is indeed a lovely day here.
    It is great to be back in Oceanside again. Last July, I 
participated in the Economic Opportunity Subcommittee's field 
hearing on veteran food insecurity. I am proud of the 
bipartisan nature of the Economic Opportunity Subcommittee and 
your commitment to hosting field hearings in each other's 
districts to hear directly from your constituents about what 
issues veterans face.
    I hope our committee will host many more field hearings 
throughout this Congress. Ending veteran homelessness has long 
been a key priority of mine.
    I echo Ranking Member Levin's statement that there is no 
single solution to ending veteran homelessness and that it 
takes an integrated approach to alleviate housing insecurity.
    I appreciate San Diego and Oceanside's commitment to 
addressing the homelessness crisis with the urgency it 
deserves. Barriers remain to ensuring every veteran has a place 
to call home. I am hopeful that Congress can act to make tweaks 
to existing law to remove unnecessary roadblocks.
    Throughout this Congress I plan to work on a number of 
pieces of legislation with my colleagues that touch nearly 
every aspect of the homelessness services continuum, and ending 
and preventing veteran homelessness will take a concerted 
effort.
    VA has made tremendous strides in pursuit of this goal and 
the numbers--and the number of homeless veterans has reduced by 
over 55 percent since 2010.
    Last year VA housed over 40,000 veterans. Yet, still, 
according to VA--according to HUD's point in time count, 
roughly, 33,000 veterans were experiencing homelessness in 
2022.
    I am interested in learning more about innovative 
approaches to homelessness prevention and how we may be able to 
more adequately address inflow into the system through shallow 
subsidies and rapid rehousing.
    I also want to fully open up the front doors of VA by 
ensuring veterans with other than honorable discharges can 
access the health care for homeless veterans program.
    I am looking forward to hearing from transitional housing 
providers today about improvements we can make to grant and per 
diem program--to the grant and per diem program to ensure 
organizations have the resources and funding they need to serve 
veterans on their journey to permanent housing.
    Now, on the permanent housing end of the continuum 
expanding veteran eligibility for HUD-VASH and modernizing that 
program is a top priority of mine and I believe will lead to 
significant reductions in the number of veterans experiencing 
homelessness.
    As Ranking Member Levin mentioned, we are working on a fix 
to ensure that veterans with service-connected disabilities can 
access the permanent supportive housing built to meet their 
needs by adjusting how income is calculated for the purposes of 
eligibility for that housing.
    It seems backward that veterans with service-connected 
disabilities could be denied housing. It is happening in 
communities across the country and I am intent on removing this 
barrier to ending veteran homelessness.
    The affordable housing crisis is one of the chief causes of 
homelessness and nowhere is that crisis more apparent than here 
in California. I am pleased we will hear directly from 
affordable housing developer today--from an affordable housing 
developer today about how we can encourage the construction of 
more housing units for veterans including through project-based 
funding--project-based HUD-VASH vouchers.
    I believe that by giving VA and providers flexibility and 
fully funding the resources they need they can better address 
the needs of homeless veterans in their care and communities 
who are moving through their system and that is why I am going 
to continue to fight for passage of H.R. 645, Congresswoman 
Cherfilus-McCormick's Healthy Foundations for Homeless Veterans 
Act, which extends VA's authority to pay for basic needs for 
veterans experiencing homelessness.
    I am deeply concerned about the effects that the May 11th 
expiration of that authority and the elevated grant and per 
diem reimbursement rate may have on VA providers and the 
veterans who need our help the most.
    There are a number of other issues within homeless programs 
I hope to address this Congress and into the future, including 
coordinated entry, data collection, and access to legal 
services and program training, and I want to ensure that we are 
encouraging the guiding principles of housing first across our 
homeless response systems so that we are prioritizing permanent 
housing placements for veterans and securing the treatment and 
services they may need as well.
    I hope to hear ideas for how we can make the journey from 
at-risk or homeless to stably housed as smooth as possible for 
our veterans from our San Diego and Oceanside providers.
    I thank the chairman and the ranking member again for 
letting me participate today in this field hearing, and I yield 
back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Takano.
    I would like to recognize my friend, Representative Kim, 
and thank her for making the drive down to the district. If you 
would like to make some opening comments.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF YOUNG KIM

    Ms. Kim. Thank you, Chairman Van Orden and Ranking Member 
Levin, for holding this field hearing in Southern California on 
veteran homelessness and allowing me to participate, too.
    I represent California's 40th congressional District and 
most of my district is primarily in Orange County but I do also 
have parts of San Bernardino and Riverside Counties.
    You know, I was looking up the statistics. California is 
home to 1.8 million former service members and that is about a 
little over 5 percent of the state's population and that is 
also one-third most in the entire United States among all 50 
states.
    We have a lot of veterans here in the state as well as in 
our respective districts so there is a lot of concentration 
about making sure that we take care of our veterans and find 
out what the needs are, which is one of the reasons why in my 
own district I have formed a veteran advisory group where, you 
know, I invite the veterans, those who work with the veterans--
organizations, associations --so that they can come and have a 
regular conversation with me so I can find out what the needs 
are, what resources we have at the Federal level that, you 
know, we can dispense to the communities.
    In my district, like I said, we have a number of 
nonprofits, government, and law enforcement agencies and health 
agency partners that are designed to increase collaboration on 
finding, you know, a temporary shelter, connecting homeless 
veterans to health care and addiction services, and enrolling 
veterans into reintegration programs and help them find 
stability and reenter the workforce.
    We got a lot of work to do but that is one of the reasons 
why I took the time to drive down here to listen from the 
veterans, those of you who are working closely with the 
veterans, to give us some ideas on how we can better our work 
as Members of Congress to disseminate and help our veterans 
better.
    Thank you so much for, again, inviting me and I look 
forward to hearing our witnesses talk to us. Thank you.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Representative Kim.
    I am going to ask the witnesses on the first panel to 
please stand and raise your right hand. Can you do that back 
there? Man, they got you in a tight spot. Raise your right 
hand, please.
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to 
provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth?
    [Witnesses are sworn.]
    Mr. Van Orden. All right. Thank you. Let the record reflect 
the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Please take 
your seats.
    Before we get started, I am a retired Navy SEAL. There is a 
clock that says 5 minutes. That is when you are stopping. Okay. 
I will hold myself to the same standard, just so you know. All 
right.
    Mr. Pearson, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
deliver your testimony on behalf of the VA witnesses.

                   STATEMENT OF FRANK PEARSON

    Mr. Pearson. Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking 
Member Levin, Ranking Member Takano, and Congresswoman Kim.
    My name is Dr. Frank Pearson. I am the director of the VA 
San Diego Healthcare System and the Jennifer Moreno VA Medical 
Center. I am accompanied today by Jill Albanese, senior advisor 
and director of clinical operations in VA homeless program's 
office.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the topic of 
veteran homelessness, the work in this area by my staff at the 
VA San Diego Healthcare System, and the challenges that we face 
in our efforts to end homelessness among veterans in San Diego.
    The VA San Diego Healthcare for Homeless Veterans program 
collaborates with many community organizations to combat 
veteran homelessness. It all starts with identifying at-risk 
homeless veterans and then helping them with the continuum of 
care and services.
    The most common way to document veteran homelessness is 
through the annual point in time counts. As stated, in 2022 to 
the point in time count recorded almost 8,500 homeless 
individuals in the San Diego region. That was a 10 percent 
change since 2020.
    Six hundred and eighty-six of these individuals, 8 percent, 
self-identified as veterans. These statistics reflected a 27 
percent reduction in the veteran homeless population since 
2020, which was a welcome trend in the right direction.
    While the success leads that have other large cities on the 
West Coast, VA San Diego struggles to meet some of the national 
VA goals for permanent housing placements. Our calendar year 
2022 goal was 842 and we achieved permanent placement for 704 
veterans. The written testimony submitted explains some of the 
reasons why.
    There are new 2023 goals and VA San Diego is implementing 
and has implemented several initiatives aimed at increasing 
permanent housing, decreasing recidivism, and engaging with 
veterans facing homelessness.
    In many ways, the COVID-19 pandemic provided advantages 
that enabled VA San Diego to assist homeless veterans. Namely, 
the city of San Diego utilized the convention center to ensure 
that all individuals and families struggling with homelessness 
had access to shelter, basic necessities, and services.
    This allowed VA San Diego to increase collaboration with 
community partners to streamline services and focus engagement 
efforts in one location. VA programs had over 200 admissions 
into HUD-VASH and 135 veterans were transferred directly from 
the convention center to housing in 2021.
    Other factors that came about because of the pandemic 
included special funding flexibilities provided through Section 
4201 of the Veterans Health Care and Benefits Improvement Act 
of 2020. That was greatly appreciated.
    That law authorized the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to 
use appropriated funds for life-saving food, shelter, goods and 
services for homeless veterans or those who participate in the 
U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Veterans 
Affairs Supportive Housing--HUD-VASH--during the pandemic. That 
funding, as you know and as have been stated, is set to expire 
soon and that is a bad thing, potentially.
    In San Diego the VA uses those funds in many ways. In an 
extremely competitive housing market 4201 funding approval 
enabled an increase of the maximum grant per diem rate for 
grant recipients.
    Programs such as Ride Share enabled over 4,400 rides for 
homeless veterans to get to our clinics for medical care. 
Supportive Services for Veteran Families provided hotel 
vouchers for veterans and their families awaiting permanent 
housing.
    Funding flexibilities also allowed VA San Diego to form new 
partnerships with organizations like Brilliant Corners to 
engage in community programs such as landlord engagement and 
assistance and other San Diego County landlord-assisted 
incentive programs and, similarly, Landlord Engagement and 
Assistance Program (LEAP) in the city of San Diego.
    By definition, the search for affordable housing is a key 
part of our efforts to reduce veteran homelessness. There are 
many programs in our continuum of care that address some of the 
root causes of homelessness.
    We use clinic and street-based outreach to engage veterans 
and provide resources and referrals. VA transitional housing 
programs offer both grant and per diem beds and contract 
residential specialty beds.
    The VA homeless patient-aligned care team offers walk-in 
and scheduled appointments to more than 300 enrolled veterans.
    The Veterans Justice Outreach Program provides resources, 
referrals, and case management service for veterans who are 
incarcerated, on probation or parole, or otherwise in need of 
Homeless Court advocacy, and VA San Diego employment readiness 
staff members assist homeless veterans overcoming housing 
instability as they seek employment.
    VA San Diego Healthcare System is committed to ensuring 
veterans have access to the housing resources and services they 
require and deserve. We are working to improve access to 
programs designed to meet veterans' needs.
    Thank you very much for the opportunity to appear before 
you here today. We truly appreciate the many resources that 
Congress has provided the VA so we can care for our Nation's 
veterans. Now we are happy to respond to any questions that you 
may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Frank Pearson Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. You made it.
    Just so you know, Mr. Pearson, I read all of your testimony 
already. Thank you very much for that and the written statement 
of Mr. Pearson will be entered into the hearing record.
    Ms. Hines, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your testimony.

                 STATEMENT OF LEILANI A. HINES

    Ms. Hines. Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking 
Member Levin, members of the committee, and the public in 
attendance here today and virtually.
    My name is Leilani Hines. I am the director of housing--of 
the housing department and housing authority for the city of 
Oceanside.
    Oceanside in particular has long been defined by its 
neighbor, Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, with over 42,000 
active duty personnel, 73 percent of which live off base, and 
more than 77,000 retired personnel residing in the San Diego 
region.
    Many of these active, retired, and discharged service 
members and their families make Oceanside their home, and since 
2015 this region has worked toward functional zero for the 
homeless population in veterans and we have seen an overall 
decrease, as has been stated.
    That is not necessarily the case here in Oceanside. We have 
experienced a significant increase in our point in time from 
five persons in 2020 to 88 in the last count.
    Oceanside is in collaboration and works to support 
leadership efforts of our continuum of care committed to the 
national built for zero initiatives the board of supervisors 
that have adopted a county framework for ending homelessness, 
creating that unified strategic approach to support coordinated 
services and funding.
    As part of this effort and the growth of homelessness in 
contradiction to the region in Oceanside what we bring to the 
table are our HUD-VASH vouchers, a hundred vouchers. As you 
often hear the media and cause for concern for many in our 
community it is the lack of affordable housing and a 
competitive rental housing market that is a big contributing 
factor for the use of housing choice vouchers.
    To address this and to meet the challenge the city does use 
the 120 percent of our fair market rent for its VASH program. 
We utilize zip code level small area Fair Market Rents (FMRs) 
that better reflect rents within our individual neighborhoods 
to meet those high costs and the changing market in Oceanside.
    The temporary change in the FMR methodology employed for 
2023 incorporates private market rental data that will help us 
to close that gap in high housing cost markets like Oceanside 
where we see a median rent of $3,400 a month, a hundred-dollar-
a-month increases in rents from March to April 2023 and an $800 
increase from the same time last year.
    Consumer choice for our veterans' self-determination 
housing stability are dependent upon the availability of 
housing and its affordability, and so where opportunities arise 
the city does work with our private market developers to 
stimulate development, expand our available housing stock, 
particularly through project-based vouchers, and Oceanside has 
committed to full utilization of 20 percent of the program cap 
for Projected Based Vouchers (PBVs), the additional 10 percent 
for permanent supportive housing to just support housing 
affordability.
    In recent years you have seen all three of our housing 
authorities dedicate PBVs to a number of permanent supportive 
housing developments and as a local municipality our impact on 
the market is truly limited and to services.
    We can, however, take proactive measures to outreach, make 
known the availability of resources to the community to connect 
potential VASH-eligible veterans with our local San Diego 
Veteran Affairs Medical Center.
    We can help to educate and engage landlords and property 
owners of participation in the voucher program, the benefits, 
the availability of incentives we have, and the services that 
can be available through VASH or even the Emergency Housing 
Vouchers (EHV) program.
    While we as a local jurisdiction we have all committed to 
doing what we can there is more to be done for veterans 
experiencing homelessness.
    As the county has alluded to in their written testimony, 
VASH vouchers left on the table are left on the table and 
available. We have utilized only about 50 percent--nearly 50 
percent over the last few years of our VASH vouchers. That is 
lost opportunity.
    Our use of VASH vouchers is truly relying upon direct 
referrals of the VA and their case management services and that 
is what impacts the greatest higher utilization of our 
services.
    Our referrals have been slow and trickling in and we 
continue to examine ways in which we can partner to strengthen 
those relationships and increase our referral rate.
    In the future what we would ask for you to do as we work 
together as municipalities, our Continuum of Care (COC) and 
Regional Task Force on Homelessness (RTFH), we hope to identify 
referrals. We hope that the--we increase program caps for PBVs 
as a useful financing mechanism.
    As Ranking Member Levin has championed, we urge legislators 
to think about the methodology of the FMR and to go beyond 2023 
and to incorporate that data. Last----

    [The Prepared Statement Of Leilani Hines Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    Ms. Hines. Thank you.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Hines, I read all your testimony, too, in case you 
wondered.
    Ms. Hines. Thank you.
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes. I owe that to you. The written 
statement of Ms. Hines will be entered into the hearing record.
    Mr. Estrella, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
deliver your testimony.

                  STATEMENT OF DAVID ESTRELLA

    Mr. Estrella. Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking 
Member Levin, and members of the committee. Welcome to the 
county of San Diego and my hometown, Oceanside, California.
    My name is David Estrella and I am the director of County 
of San Diego's Health and Human Services Agency Housing and 
Community Development Services. As such, I also represent the 
housing authority of the County of San Diego.
    San Diego County is a proud military community. San Diego 
has the largest concentration of military and veteran presence 
in the world with approximately 120,000 active duty personnel 
and 230,000 veteran residents.
    The majority of our active duty service members are split, 
roughly, between the Navy and Marine Corps serving among our 
eight military bases in the county.
    According to the Regional Taskforce on Homelessness, there 
are nearly 1,000 veterans currently experiencing homelessness 
in our region. Over the last several years the San Diego County 
Board of Supervisors has demonstrated its commitment to 
addressing the needs of all people experiencing and at risk of 
homelessness.
    The board adopted the county's Framework for Ending 
Homelessness in 2021, which created a unified strategic 
approach to support the coordination of homeless services and 
funding.
    On February 7th, 2023, the board formally prioritized 
ending veteran homelessness in the region. The county of San 
Diego will join community partners and other local 
municipalities in developing and implementing a regional 
strategic action plan to achieve functional zero for veterans' 
homelessness within a 15-month period and maximize available 
resources to meet our veterans' housing needs across the 
region.
    The introduction of the Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing 
VASH program in 2008 has been a key contribution to an over 55 
percent reduction in veterans experiencing homelessness 
nationwide since 2010.
    According to San Diego's regional 2022 point in time count, 
while the number of persons experiencing homelessness saw an 
overall increase veterans homelessness in the region decreased 
by over 350 veterans since the 2020 report.
    The county of San Diego has engaged in working with the 
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and other partners to 
address the challenges in the region. Some recent highlights of 
the county's effort include enhancing county outreach, 
educating and engaging landlords, and enhancing the county's 
landlord incentive program to reduce the amount of time between 
voucher issuance and lease up in a very competitive rental 
market, connecting veterans with units by providing vacancy 
leads through our landlord liaison and streamlining the 
administrative process to increase efficiencies and reduce 
barriers.
    While remarkable progress has been made there is more to be 
done to help veterans experiencing homelessness. According to 
the February 2023 U.S. Department of Housing and Urban 
Development Dashboard there are 2,334 VASH vouchers allocated 
to three housing authorities in the San Diego region.
    While the housing authority of the county of San Diego, the 
San Diego Housing Commission, and the Oceanside Housing 
Authority have over 1,670 veteran families leased in units and 
receiving VASH assistance, over 650 VASH vouchers remained not 
utilized.
    In order to get our veterans off the street and into 
housing an additional outreach and referrals from the local VA 
are needed throughout the region. In 2022 the county received 
an average of less than 11 referrals per month.
    Recognizing the need to increase outreach and referrals in 
the housing authority's jurisdiction, the San Diego Veterans 
Affairs Medical Center (VAMC) has recently secured a contractor 
to assist the VA with outreach and referrals.
    So far in 2023 the county has received an average of 15 
referrals per month. While we anticipate seeing the referral 
numbers continue to grow in 2023, the current pace is not 
nearly enough to fully utilize the vouchers within the next 12 
months and still leaves too many veterans far too long without 
a place to call home.
    While the county has been successful in applying to HUD and 
bringing additional vouchers to the region in the past, the 
inadequate referral rate has made the county housing authority 
ineligible to apply for additional VASH vouchers based on 
utilization rate thresholds.
    Not being able to apply for additional vouchers is a missed 
opportunity. We can enhance the San Diego VAMC's capacity to 
identify and refer homeless veterans by expanding the local 
VA's current third party referral contract.
    Additional strategies that would help streamline access to 
VASH vouchers for eligible veterans include expanding program 
wide VASH waivers to align with flexibilities already allowed 
under the emergency housing voucher program and stability 
voucher programs, increasing the amount of VASH project-based 
vouchers, or PBVs, that the local VA will support per proposed 
housing development.
    Currently, there is a limit of either 10 VASH PBVs per 
development or 10 percent of the development's units, whichever 
is greater. This minimum should be increased.
    Thank you for your time and I am happy to answer any 
questions that you may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of David Estrella Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Good job. You made it.
    Mr. Estrella, thank you very much. Oh, excuse me. Yes, 
thank you very much, and your written statement, which I did 
read, will be entered into the record.
    Mr.--is it Wexter?
    Mr. Wechter. Wechter.
    Mr. Van Orden. Wechter. You are now recognized for 5 
minutes to deliver your testimony.

                  STATEMENT OF MATTHEW WECHTER

    Mr. Wechter. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden, 
Ranking Member Levin, Ranking Member Takano, and Representative 
Kim.
    My name is Matthew Wechter. I am the deputy public defender 
supervising the Pretrial Advocacy and Community Connections 
unit of the Public Defender's Office. On behalf of the county 
of San Diego, department of the Public Defender, our chief 
deputies, and the members of our office, thank you for inviting 
me to testify on this issue.
    Since my first years as an attorney in this office, now 
over 13 years ago, it has been clear to me the strong 
commitment that the San Diego Public Defender and our 
collaborative justice partners and the greater county of San 
Diego community has to serving our homeless veteran population.
    We can do better in two ways. The first is best addressed 
by my panel colleagues today, increasing the housing and other 
nonlegal resources available that they need, and the second is 
to eliminate the legal barriers to being able to utilize and 
meaningfully receive those resources and that is what I will 
focus my comments on today.
    In my written materials I discussed how important the Stand 
Down event has been and continues to be for our county and our 
community members and beyond. The way I have always heard Stand 
Down described is you take a step, we take a step. You walk in 
and ask for help and we will walk with you.
    Homeless courts started its stand down 34 years ago as a 
collaborative justice effort between the public defender, 
district and city attorneys, and the Superior Court, and 
continues to be one of the biggest if not the biggest service 
provider at the event. In fact, most years at San Diego High 
School's field the veterans are lined up early just for legal 
help.
    The public defender is there in force--I call it the public 
defender army--with over 50 volunteers over those 2 days there 
to meet the incoming veterans looking for help.
    In return for coming to the event, engaging with services, 
and working on themselves the public defender and the court 
partners can now research their cases, look for outstanding 
warrants, locate Department of Motor Vehicle (DMV) holds, pull 
those cases and remove those barriers on the spot.
    Never let a pandemic go to waste. We now have that 
technology to do this in real time with a click of a button.
    The criminal case, fine, and relief is just the start of 
what legal help is available at Stand Down. DMV Legal Aid, San 
Diego Volunteer Lawyer, Child Support Services, League of Women 
Voters, county assessor recorder helping with birth 
certificates--it is a one-stop shop for a veteran looking for a 
way out of that cycle. They take a step, we take a step.
    That is only 3 days a year, 3 days twice a year in San 
Diego. What about the rest of that time? Our monthly formal 
Homeless Court Program operates 12 months a year with the VA, 
PATH, Interfaith, Adjoin, and over 90 other approved Homeless 
Court providers in this community, able to refer their clients 
and participants to clear these legal barriers once they have 
met those program requirements.
    San Diego was not satisfied there either. In 2021, on the 
heels of the pandemic, that same collaborative spirit among our 
county and community partners also begun using the model of 
Homeless Court at Stand Down to institute Homeless Court pop-up 
resource fairs throughout the community to remove immediate 
barriers and we hope to expand those to twice per month in the 
near future.
    The Homeless Court pop-up model of hyperlocal meet them 
where they are action is gaining traction through the American 
Bar Association's Commission on Homelessness and Poverty as 
well.
    In fact, I just returned from Charleston, South Carolina, 
supporting their first Homeless Court pop-up resource fair last 
Friday, and there are already discussions to plan their next 
one.
    If you sense a theme to my opening comments today it is 
meeting the unhoused person where they are to lift that 
barrier. For the veteran they came out for us when we needed it 
and now we will come out for them and address their needs.
    Sometimes that first step is the hardest, and the public 
defender and the other community collaborative partners will be 
ready to take those steps with them.
    While this is a field hearing in San Diego, veteran 
homelessness is not unique here. I extend the invitation to any 
and all the members of this subcommittee to join us at any of 
our Homeless Court pop-up events, our monthly Homeless Court 
Program graduation, or our Stand Down event this July to see it 
in action.
    If you are interested in this type of event in your 
community through the American Bar Association on Homelessness 
and Poverty I would be happy to make that connection with your 
community as well.
    Thank you, and I would be happy to answer any questions 
that committee has.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Matthew Wechter Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Wechter.
    The written statement of Mr. Wechter will be entered into 
the hearing.
    We will now proceed to questioning. I ask members and 
witnesses to respect the 5-minute rule--I think we have covered 
that--and I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Hines, you said it is 30--and I read it but I did not 
see what type of apartment costs $3,400. Like, how big is that?
    Ms. Hines. That would be a two-or three-bedroom unit. Our 
two-bedroom units go anywhere from $2,400, $2,800 and then 
three-bedroom units upwards of $3,000 to $4,000.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Ms. Hines. If you have been to the Oceanside community we 
have----
    Mr. Van Orden. Oh, yes.
    Ms. Hines [continuing]. we have had a renaissance, if you 
will, and a lot of new physical developments coming online.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. That would be for a family then?
    Ms. Hines. Yes, it would be.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Thank you, ma'am.
    Mr. Wechter, what qualifies a veteran as homeless and 
allows them access to your services?
    Mr. Wechter. The good part about the way that our community 
has done it is homeless or at risk of homelessness, which 
really opens it up and makes it so that we have as much 
eligibility as possible.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Mr. Wechter. When a person comes there might be suitability 
issues but eligibility is as broad as possible.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Excellent. Thank you.
    Dr. Pearson, as you know, Southern California is an area 
with a significant defense presence--we have discussed that--
and members of the armed forces in the community make the 
transition of the military to civilian life every day. About 
750 members of the Naval Special Warfare community do this 
annually.
    Can you please discuss how the local VA Medical Center 
collaborates with the nearby naval and Marine bases to ensure 
that service members who may not have a housing plan as they 
exit the military are connected with the resources they need?
    Then the second question is does the Department of Defense 
provide warm handovers directly to the local VA for service 
members who do not have a housing plan?
    Mr. Pearson. Okay. Thank you for that question.
    The military offers the Transitional Assistance Program for 
military members that are exiting the Navy or any military 
service. I am a 37-year veteran myself and having been a 
commanding officer I am very familiar with this.
    You know, the military actually has a very good program for 
people that are going to be medically disabled and there is a 
very significant handoff as we have had in this community with 
Wounded Warriors and everything.
    We have a very strong connection between Camp Pendleton and 
Navy Medical Center of San Diego for those veterans or soon to 
become veterans.
    There is a really good handoff process there. When military 
members are exiting the military they go through TAPS. They get 
representatives from the VA who come to share----
    Mr. Van Orden. Dr. Pearson, I do not want to cut you off 
but I have limited time. I was just doing the stuff for this. I 
want to make sure that the Department of Defense (DOD) is not--
like, they are not chilling you out and it sounds like they are 
not so far, from your perspective. I am going to follow up
    --have my staff follow up with you if that is all right.
    Ms. Albanese--is that correct?
    Ms. Albanese. Yes.
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes. Okay. Can you discuss the disparity in 
the treatment of veterans' Federal service disability payments 
between the most Federal agencies and HUD and how this affects 
veterans' ability to get affordable housing?
    Ms. Albanese. Yes. Thank you for the question.
    What I can tell you is of the veterans that are currently 
enrolled in all of our homeless programs nationally about 20 
percent of those veterans would be over income for these 
projects that Mr. Levin described.
    It is a significant number of veterans who would not be 
eligible for those project-based because they are over income 
even though they have a service-connected disability.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Yes, that is unacceptable. We are 
going to work on that.
    Yours is kind of a general question but, Doctor, I am going 
to start with you. I want to know what actually goes into 
trying to deconstruct this problem because I read all this 
stuff again and I see a lot of--I do not see a lot of upstream 
solutions.
    With that transition program in Naval Special Warfare they 
start 24 months out making sure that these service members--
they start off in a productive way. Can you tell me a little 
bit about the upstream solutions that you are working with that 
could potentially help this?
    You have a active duty service man or woman who is 
performing incredible functions and then they wind up in a bush 
on a corner. You know, that just did not happen.
    I really want--and I know Ranking Member Levin is all over 
this--I want to try to deconstruct that problem so we can 
prevent getting here. The reason being is I am not sure that 
the at-risk--I think that is too late at that point. Can you 
address that?
    Mr. Pearson. Sure. The VA has a Move to VA program and so 
that is one program that is helping to facilitate resources for 
military members who are transitioning. We also have veteran 
resource centers and we actually just opened up a brand new one 
at the VA hospital here recently.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. With that, I yield back.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Levin for 5 minutes to 
question the witnesses.
    Mr. Levin. Thanks again, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to 
everybody on the panel for being here today and for all your 
excellent work in the community.
    I wanted to start by discussing barriers to affordable 
housing for veterans and one of the most important tools that 
we have got to improve access is the ability to project base 
HUD-VASH vouchers. We have been talking about that a bit. 
Project-basing vouchers effectively sets aside units in a 
building or development so that there is a dedicated housing 
stock for veterans.
    My understanding is that there has been a slow uptake in 
project basing in the San Diego region despite the difficult 
reality that many veterans face when competing in the rental 
market, as we have been discussing, with a tenant-based 
voucher.
    I would like San Diego and Oceanside public housing 
authorities as well as VA to please discuss the barriers to 
project-basing HUD-VASH vouchers in our community and any 
solutions you are working on to ensure that there are units 
available for veterans, and let us begin with Mr. Estrella.
    Mr. Estrella. Thank you for your question, Ranking Member.
    The discussion of project-based vouchers starts as a 
financing discussion and it is a form of subsidizing permanent 
affordable housing.
    Typically VASH project-based vouchers are included amongst 
a package of other either housing choice project-based vouchers 
and other types of financing, State tax credits, or State 
financing for veterans housing, et cetera.
    Typically what you see is a voucher that is a set aside for 
veterans within a larger affordable housing development, so 
glass half full.
    Part of the question is that it is a portion of financing 
so it does not carry the full burden of affordable housing 
development. It is part of a broader challenge, which is 
financing affordable housing development generally.
    The more project-based vouchers that are made available 
that are VASH vouchers that increases the probability that the 
project will be--the affordable housing development will be 
financially solvable over long term. It will be operational, et 
cetera.
    In summary, affordable housing finance is very difficult, 
particularly in the San Diego region and California region. 
VASH vouchers as project-based vouchers are a tool that can be 
used. Expanding that tool allows us more freedom to build more 
housing.
    Mr. Levin. Ms. Hines, I will ask you the same question.
    Ms. Hines. I think my answer would be very similar to 
David's response, but project-based vouching is absolutely 
necessary when you do financing for the extremely low or very 
low.
    When we look at a development you can have upwards of six 
different funding sources coming in. We recently approved 
Greenbrier Village, which is a 59-unit permanent supportive 
housing all VASH--all project-based vouchers with five VASH 
vouchers. The equivalent value of those project-based vouchers 
was about $21 million.
    You cannot do permanent housing without project-based 
vouchering, and so the more that we have the ability to use 
project-based vouchers the more housing stock we think that we 
will be able to get at those extremely low or very low income 
levels.
    Mr. Levin. Why do not we do more of it? You just think it 
is a financing matter as Mr. Estrella referred to?
    Ms. Hines. At times it is a choice. We can do--we in 
Oceanside have committed to using the full maximum. We are 
obligated under the legislation to only use a maximum of the 20 
percent of our vouchers.
    Increasing that maximum will help us to do more affordable 
housing and then it becomes a choice of a developer or a 
partner and, in the case of the VASH vouchers, the VA as to how 
many of those they will use for a targeted population group.
    Mr. Levin. Dr. Pearson, I will turn to you for my last 
minute in the hope that we will have another round because I 
got a bunch more questions if you are willing.
    Dr. Pearson.
    Mr. Pearson. Absolutely. Thank you for the opportunity.
    I will make it very quick. We have 76 project-based 
vouchers for the city, 13 for the county, and none for 
Oceanside. I would say there is opportunity there.
    Mr. Levin. Zero for Oceanside?
    Mr. Pearson. Right.
    Mr. Levin. Wow.
    Mr. Pearson. Project-based housing, yes.
    Mr. Levin. You do not think that there is--so do you agree 
with the general premise that it is the financing that is the 
challenge?
    Mr. Pearson. You know, that is at a different level than 
what I get involved with but I certainly think there is--cost 
has something to do with everything these days. Absolutely, you 
cannot dismiss that.
    Mr. Levin. Okay. Do you have any insight on why Oceanside 
has not had any of these projects?
    Mr. Pearson. No, sir, I do not.
    Mr. Levin. Okay. Ms. Hines, do you have any insight on 
this?
    Ms. Hines. We just started to get into the game of project-
based vouchering, and so as I discussed the Greenbrier Village 
project was just awarded funding this year.
    Mr. Levin. Out of time. Sorry. Okay.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much, and at the request of 
Ranking Member Levin we will do a second round of questioning.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you, Chair.
    Mr. Van Orden. We will get to--of course, no.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Takano for 5 minutes to 
question the witnesses.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Chairman Van Orden.
    I want to follow up on the chairman's questioning on 
veteran eligibility compensation.
    Mr. Pearson, how often does this issue of veteran 
disability compensation putting veterans over the income 
eligibility requirements for a unit in a permanent supportive 
housing complex--how often does it present itself in the San 
Diego area?
    Mr. Pearson. Surprisingly, it is not significant in San 
Diego because there is plenty of housing to be able to--as far 
as when we are talking per diem and we are talking about Area 
Median Income (AMI) rates, the rates that are currently 
available meet the number that were allocated.
    There is sufficient allotment for what we are available to 
do. Does that mean that project-based housing would not 
appreciate an increase? No, because that would probably make 
ineligibility for more housing available there.
    Mr. Takano. You are not saying you do not encounter this 
that often?
    Mr. Pearson. That is right.
    Mr. Takano. Does it--but does it happen sometimes there?
    Mr. Pearson. Sure. Yes, and I am very familiar.
    Mr. Takano. What happens when it does happen to veterans 
who are turned away from accessing a unit in permanent 
supportive housing because of their permanent--for their 
disability compensation? What do you do in that case?
    Mr. Pearson. Sure. I would like Ms. Albanese to help me 
with that.
    Mr. Takano. Sure.
    Ms. Albanese. Sure. I can tell you one of the consequences 
is that when a veteran does not qualify for these project-based 
then they are--they are able to use a tenant-based voucher 
because San Diego has made those vouchers available so folks 
can get vouchers if they are up to 80 percent area median 
income, which certainly does help and it sounds like Oceanside 
is even 120 percent of FMR. That is hugely helpful.
    When you are a veteran and you are in--you have a voucher, 
you are competing with everybody else in the rental market, 
right. Using a voucher you are already at a little bit of a 
disadvantage.
    That means that you have to go through an inspection. You 
have to figure out how you are going to get the deposit. It is 
a very competitive market and so, again, I would say that that 
can put a veteran at a disadvantage if they cannot take 
advantage of the project-based units.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you for that.
    Let me go to Mr. Estrella. One critical step Congress took 
during the COVID-19 pandemic was to authorize emergency housing 
vouchers, or EHVs, through the American Rescue Plan. EHVs were 
created to help pay rent for individuals or families at risk of 
or experiencing homelessness.
    The new program came with higher rent caps, extra money for 
landlord incentives, and laxer documentation requirements than 
housing choice vouchers.
    The San Diego public area housing authorities were 
extremely successful on using their EHVs unlike many other 
communities in California and across the country. I have been 
working on legislation that would expand administrative funding 
for the HUD-VASH program to mimic the EHV program.
    Can you please discuss--I see some nodding heads over 
there. Can you please discuss why San Diego was successful in 
utilizing its emergency housing voucher allotment? If you 
cannot I will turn to them. So----
    Mr. Estrella. Thank you for your question.
    I think it is a reflection of the collaborative efforts 
across the region, including the Regional Taskforce on 
Homelessness, all of the housing authorities working together.
    Those vouchers were issued during a very difficult time and 
I think the--just the collaboration that came through quick 
referrals, quick processing, and the administrative 
efficiencies that came with the program that would very much 
benefit--you know, is very much modeled and similar to VASH.
    I think those kind of administrative efficiencies help us 
to get the vouchers out in a quick fashion. I think that is the 
best way to respond.
    Mr. Takano. Do you have anything to add, very quickly, 
either one of you?
    Mr. Pearson. I do. In addition to that, again, it is all 
about the dollar. You were--they gave efficiencies of being 
able to provide deposit money immediately whereas HUD-VASH does 
not do that.
    Mr. Takano. Are there any other lessons from the EHV 
program that we could apply to other subsidies like HUD-VASH 
that you would add besides that or was that the key one?
    Mr. Pearson. That is the key one, sir.
    Mr. Takano. Okay. Ms. Albanese?
    Ms. Albanese.
    Ms. Albanese. I would just say that we absolutely would 
support having those same benefits that were included with the 
emergency housing vouchers included with HUD-VASH. It would be 
a game changer for us, sir, so we absolutely appreciate that 
consideration.
    Mr. Takano. Well, it seems like the previous issue I 
raised, which is an issue in other parts, which is the 
eligibility cliff. Seems like that is not such a problem. You 
are all--you are all, like--you are all showing a lot of 
enthusiasm around this particular reform that I just mentioned.
    Ms. Albanese. I would say that it is a bigger problem in 
other communities than it is in San Diego. Not every housing 
authority chooses to raise their eligibility limit to 80 or 120 
percent of fair market rent. So while----
    Mr. Takano. I am going to have to--I am going to have to--
--
    Ms. Albanese. Okay. Thanks.
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. cut us off here. Thanks.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Van Orden. We will have a second round if you want to 
follow up. I now recognize Representative Kim for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Kim. Thank you, Chairman.
    As all of our witnesses know, the veteran homelessness is a 
problem that can be prevented if veterans are connected with 
our local, state, and federal resources before they become 
homeless, right. We can think about the mental problems. The 
emotional health and substance abuse are often the factors 
contributing to veteran homelessness.
    I want to ask all witnesses, and this is open to all of 
you, what are some of the examples at any level like state, 
federal, and local levels that have worked well at preventing 
our veterans from becoming homeless?
    Anyone can go first.
    Ms. Albanese. I can say that one of the--one of the 
programs that we see that has worked very well has been the 
Supportive Services for Veteran Family programs. It does 
provide prevention services. One of the things that we are 
looking at utilizing SSVF for is to use our shallow subsidy 
intervention a little bit further upstream.
    Some folks are at risk of homelessness just because they do 
not have enough income to pay their rent. For those folks a 
shallow subsidy makes sense, and just to explain, the shallow 
subsidy pays up to 50 percent of someone's rent.
    We do feel like we can use that intervention, encourage our 
grantees to use it further upstream. It will reach a broader 
population. That is one of the things that we are looking at.
    Ms. Kim. Does anyone want to----
    Mr. Estrella. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    I guess what I would add on top of that is an 
understanding, one, that this discussion is a discussion of 
poverty when we are talking about homelessness, generally. I 
think you were referencing that.
    Two, any response that we provide should be 
multidisciplinary in nature. Our housing authorities are part 
of Health and Human Services Agency, which means we leverage 
all the services that are available through self-sufficiency 
and behavioral health services and everything that is offered 
through Health and Human Services Agency (HHSA).
    Then understanding that it is a regional effort across 
multiple jurisdictions including--you know, in our case it 
would be the Regional Taskforce on Homeless and all the 
wonderful providers that are part of our RTFH.
    It is very much a comprehensive approach. Less silos and 
more cooperation generally yields better results with the 
resources braided along with that and understanding that health 
also plays a part in that.
    Thank you.
    Ms. Kim. Thank you so much.
    You know, we know that a major issue with veterans getting 
the benefits and resources that they are entitled to is that we 
do not know who they are and we do not know where they are. 
That is probably the major issue, right.
    In California, as you probably already know, we have added 
the voter identification--veteran identification to driver's 
licenses. We can now allow the local veteran service officers--
VSOs--to have a more accurate method of educating our veterans 
on resources that are available to them.
    Outside of this what are the best practice that you can 
share with us when trying to connect veterans to local 
resources and, you know, the resources that have been proven 
effective?
    Mr. Pearson. I would offer that, you know, if a veteran is 
connected to the Veterans Administration, we, through our 
medical system, primarily through our caseworkers, our social 
workers, we are going to identify those issues and we are going 
to connect them.
    We are going to provide every intensive resource that is 
available to be able to connect them. The important point is, 
as you stated, is identifying them. It is difficult unless they 
are connected to us.
    I think there are also opportunities to identify those 
people that are transitioning from the military and then once 
they connect with the VA we have got a great opportunity.
    Ms. Kim. Is there any other methods that you can share?
    Mr. Wechter. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    I would say it is meeting them where they are with these 
types of resource fairs because they are not just homeless, 
right. It is homeless or at risk of homeless or really anybody 
that walks up.
    When we have the representatives from the VA, our Veterans 
Justice Outreach (VJO) team in San Diego, which is amazing, 
they are there to actually discuss what benefits they might 
have. They might not know. Having the access in the community 
where they are is, I think, a crucial step.
    Ms. Kim. We will definitely want to work with you. I have 
my veteran resources staff that works on this. We have 
veterans' resource fairs coming up. You mentioned the pop-up 
events for the homeless veterans. Will love to team up with you 
and then get the information out and collect their information 
as well. Hopefully----
    Mr. Wechter. Orange County just actually wanted to switch 
to that model, too. Thank you.
    Ms. Kim. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, ma'am.
    We will now proceed to our second round of questions. With 
that, I recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    Dr. Pearson, to ensure every veteran has a permanent home 
we also have to work toward employing every veteran that wants 
to work and currently the VA San Diego has two employment 
specialists to provide services to 173 veterans.
    Do you think this is an optimal number or should they have 
more employees helping veterans?
    Mr. Pearson. We are actually in the process of hiring 
additional employment specialists at this time. We will have 
three.
    Mr. Van Orden. You will have three?
    Mr. Pearson. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. What is the linkage between your folks 
there with the State and Federal Department of Labor folks?
    Mr. Pearson. That is a great question and, Ms. Albanese, 
can you help me with that?
    Ms. Albanese. Sure. I can tell you from a national level we 
do work closely with them. There are lots of opportunities for 
us to work with our Federal partners and we certainly do work 
closely with them to look at opportunities for veterans and to 
look at potential policy issues as well as additional programs 
that may need to be developed to help our veterans become 
employed.
    Mr. Pearson. I would also add that, you know, we have USA 
Jobs. It is a wonderful--actually, a website that we are trying 
to create more efficiencies with. There are a tremendous amount 
of opportunities, particularly for the veterans there.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. I want to--Doctor, I want to get a 
little more into this, the upstream solutions here, because we 
are also responsible for the Transition Assistance Program and 
we have--I do not want to use the word obstructionist but I am 
going to.
    I found the Department of Defense to be obstructionist when 
it comes to allowing us to access our Transition Assistance 
Program. I--maybe other than you--I had a terrible experience 
with the Transition Assistance Program. I thought it was nearly 
meaningless.
    I want to work with you guys to make sure that you know 
that there are some very quality things out there that we can 
implement but we have got to break the--we have got to break 
through that with the Department of Defense.
    I mean, I know you are trying to help. I know that we are 
trying to help. I also know that it is my responsibility to 
make things better to the best of my ability.
    I need to know with these--with the TAP program what could 
we potentially do, again, to prevent the productive service 
member who--man, I lived in a bush on purpose for a long time, 
right, as a Navy SEAL--to prevent the person from doing that to 
living in a bush because they have to.
    Are there any other things that you could think of or 
really across the board--I have a little bit of time
    --that we could get into the TAP programs that could help 
prevent that veteran from becoming homeless or even the at 
risk?
    Mr. Pearson. One thought, having gone through TAPS just 
within the last 5 years, is maybe more dedicated time that 
actually we forward, maybe even a VA day. You know, speaking 
honestly, that most veterans or most people that are 
transitioning are very interested in finding out ways of 
compensation.
    We do not really spend a whole lot on examining the whole 
person. VA has a whole health program that does not just take 
you from benefits and everything but it is looking at your 
whole experience of life and part of that is how you are 
transitioning and taking care of yourself.
    That is a recent program that the Veterans Administration 
has. It has been growing and growing to include employees. But 
it is a great opportunity to actually introduce it there at 
TAPS.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Before we leave I want my staff to 
give you a copy of the unclassified document that we got from 
Naval Special Warfare today, which is now in MFP 11, which it 
is a programmatic thing through the Special Operations Command 
for the transition stuff because I think it is nailing what you 
are talking about.
    Before we go, take a look at that and then I would like 
you--I will just give you my personal phone number, if that is 
okay. Give me a call.
    Mr. Pearson. Absolutely.
    Mr. Van Orden. I want to talk to you about this because----
    Mr. Pearson. I was deputy force medical officer there in 
2015.
    Mr. Van Orden. Oh, were you really?
    Mr. Pearson. I was.
    Mr. Van Orden. Oh, what is up, man?
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Van Orden. All right. Well, with that, I yield back. I 
now----
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman, before you yield back all your 
time might I suggest we also look at the skills bridge program 
but we also look at some jurisdictional changes that we--your 
experience with DOD makes me think--we discussed it when we 
were in the majority--the prospect of expanding this 
committee's jurisdiction over some programs that DOD runs like 
skills bridge, for example, which is a 6-month time period that 
those service members still are getting their food and their 
pay but could be doing apprenticeship programs, et cetera.
    It might get better attention from us than it does from 
Armed Services, for example. I might--I might suggest the 
majority look at that.
    Mr. Van Orden. Well, we will. Thank you very much, and I 
yield back.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Levin for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you. As the former chairman of the 
subcommittee I concur with what Ranking Member Takano said.
    It has been a constant struggle trying to get the attention 
of the DOD and the jurisdictional issues and the House Veterans 
Affairs Committee-House Armed Services Committee (HVAC-HASC) 
delineation has been a challenge. We just have to keep working 
at it.
    Dr. Pearson, I appreciate all the hard work that you are 
doing at the Jennifer Moreno VA Medical Center for--on many 
levels but one thing is to hire and retain HUD-VASH case 
managers, particularly since we passed the Isakson-Roe Act a 
couple years ago.
    These case managers have some of the hardest jobs I can 
think of, some of the highest case loads of any VA employee, 
and I am really grateful for their commitment to the mission of 
ending veteran homelessness.
    How does the Medical Center address the high cost of living 
in our area, which frequently makes it difficult to find and 
retain talent that can afford to work and live in our region?
    Mr. Pearson. Thank you very much for your question.
    We have a number of things and PACT Act actually has been 
one of the great benefits of late.
    We have--looking at some of our very hard to recruit hard 
to retain positions and we have--it has afforded us some 
flexibility such as retention incentives and so that has been 
very key to actually being able to keep on existing staff and 
we look at recruitment bonuses also for staff that we want to 
bring on.
    That has been a necessity and very thankful to Congress for 
helping us and getting that passed.
    Mr. Levin. Well, let us continue to dialog on that. When we 
look at HUD-VASH voucher utilization rates we often associate a 
lower rate of utilization with a lack of available case 
managers to staff.
    The vouchers--I remember a conversation I had with your 
predecessor about this. Here, you are operating with a high 
number of your case manager positions filled, yet, the voucher 
utilization rate remains relatively low with our two public 
housing authorities represented here.
    Can you speak to why voucher utilization rates remain low 
with these Public Housing Agency (PHAs) and any ongoing efforts 
to address this, and are there best practices from your 
relationship with the San Diego Housing Commission that you 
could apply to your processes with the county and Oceanside 
PHAs?
    Mr. Pearson. Thank you for that question.
    You know, our numbers might differ a little bit in how we 
are counting because, you know, the VA is in this from the 
beginning all the way through to making sure that veterans are 
getting housed.
    The process is not just with getting the voucher. It is 
actually putting the veteran in a house, and so that is why our 
numbers look a little--so we are counting all of those veterans 
that we are working with because that is a lot of time spent by 
our caseworkers in order to do that.
    Our numbers are a little higher than what you may have 
heard reported. I think there are--were a lot of efficiencies 
that were at the convention center, you know, congregating 
everybody there.
    I think a lot of the wonderful provisions of 4201 that were 
able to give us Ride Share were able to get veterans to medical 
appointments. Of over 4,400 Ride Shares almost half of those 
were for medical appointments and 800 of those were for mental 
health appointments.
    Okay. We are getting veterans to their mental health 
appointments. That--a great efficiency that we are--that we 
gained from that.
    Additionally, we are getting people to employment 
opportunities and housing appointments as well. I cannot also 
be thankful enough for the increases in per diem that were 
afforded through there.
    With 4201(b) we were able to get the increase in per diem. 
You know, we are very supportive of the efforts to increase 
that to 200 percent, going forward, as in the budget that is 
being proposed. Those are necessities and very thankful.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you, Dr. Pearson.
    Ms. Hines, I want to get your thoughts on this as well with 
the time we have got. Can you discuss the referral process 
between VA and the Oceanside PHA and how you are all working 
together to move veterans into permanent housing more quickly?
    Ms. Hines. We are starting to work and we meet on a 
biweekly basis, on a monthly basis, to talk about referrals, to 
talk about case management. It has been a slow trickle. I mean, 
there are months where we get no referrals and months where we 
get a few referrals.
    We are working on that with--directly with the VA and the 
staff, I think, as a region through the county's efforts and 
the framework that they are establishing to look at region wide 
what are those administrative bottlenecks that are preventing 
the referrals and then locally what do we have going on in 
Oceanside. Maybe it is an affordability issue that may be 
preventing those referrals from happening.
    Mr. Levin. I appreciate that. I am running out of time. One 
reason I have heard is--particularly for Oceanside is veterans 
might want to look closer to services in the city of San Diego.
    I will not ask you to answer because I do not want to hear 
the--I do not want to hear you get timeout. Obviously, we want 
to make sure those services are making their way to North 
County and we appreciate it.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. With that, I recognize Ranking Member Takano 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you.
    Ms. Albanese, in our discussion about the emergency housing 
voucher lessons you were sort of cutoff. Do you remember what 
you were wanting to say about--with respect to other 
communities maybe having a greater--so I want to make sure we 
got that on the record?
    Ms. Albanese. Yes. I would just reiterate that we strongly 
support utilizing the admin funds that were available for the 
emergency housing vouchers for HUD-VASH and have that mirror 
for HUD-VASH.
    We do know that we have seen nationwide it has been easier 
in some instances for those emergency housing vouchers to be 
used and it has also been a little bit difficult for HUD-VASH 
to compete with those in some areas. Not everywhere, but in 
some areas.
    If there was a way to make those same benefits and services 
available for HUD-VASH it would certainly help.
    Mr. Takano. What it sounds like to me is we ought to 
examine how we can redesign or reissue HUD-VASH to more 
resemble what was done with emergency housing vouchers during 
the pandemic.
    Ms. Albanese. Absolutely. I will say that we at the VA have 
tried to mimic that ourselves using SSVF. It was the best that 
we could do at the time. Having that attached directly to the 
HUD-VASH voucher would be better.
    Mr. Takano. Okay. Well, that is a big lesson. I thank you 
for that. I am glad we got you more time to get that on the 
record.
    I want to go to Mr. Wechter.
    Mr. Wechter, does the Homeless Court engage with community 
landlords or housing providers to ensure that those who come 
through the court are not discriminated against when accessing 
housing?
    Mr. Wechter. What I can speak to is from the criminal 
aspect from the Public Defender's Office. At our pop-up events 
as well as our monthly graduations we do have representatives 
from the Legal Aid Society of San Diego that handle the civil 
legal end of it.
    We do have available resources so when someone does come to 
a graduation or they do come to one of the pop-up events they 
can consult with Legal Aid to be able to get assistance on 
those matters.
    Mr. Takano. Well, great. With regard to making sure that 
these particular veterans are not discriminated against when 
accessing housing is there anything that you are able to do 
about that?
    Mr. Wechter. On the criminal side, no. It would have to be 
something on the civil side with Legal Aid because we have----
    Mr. Takano. That is why you mentioned the Legal Aid folks--
--
    Mr. Wechter. Correct.
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. being there with them. All right. 
That is maybe a separate line of question we have or another 
witness we have to get here.
    Mr. Wechter. Yes.
    Mr. Takano. I have been working on legislation to expand 
and modernize the HUD-VASH program and a critical part of that 
legislation would expand eligibility for HUD-VASH veterans--for 
HUD-VASH veterans who are transitioning out of incarceration so 
that they do not have to experience literal homelessness to be 
eligible for housing assistance.
    In many cases some of these formerly incarcerated do not 
even have IDs, right, and so at least for our veterans we 
should be doing this for all of our formerly incarcerated. Are 
there additional protections that Congress could consider to 
make it easier for justice-involved individuals to access 
housing?
    Mr. Wechter. Well, what I can say is that with our new 
unit, the Pretrial Advocacy Community Connections Unit, we are 
trying to get in as soon as someone is arrested and developing 
plans so that when they go through the reentry process they can 
get access to a quick ID.
    We were working with the self-sufficiency services for the 
county to try and make sure that if they do have local benefits 
that we can get them access to that as they are, you know, 
leaving.
    The problem is with the previously incarcerated we are 
either dealing with people that have been in for a while or 
they are circulating in and out on these lower level crimes.
    Talking to them and getting them access to those benefits 
and really just getting their idea about what they--what they 
have access to is the most important.
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman, if we think we are having trouble 
with transitioning service members out of the service think 
about veterans who are transitioning out of the justice system 
and how they fall through the cracks.
    That is another--if you think you are having trouble with 
DOD----
    Mr. Pearson. Would you like me to answer that for you?
    Mr. Takano. Please go ahead.
    Mr. Pearson. We have a very successful program, actually. 
We have actually treated or been able to accommodate more than 
233 veterans in this program.
    Mr. Takano. Formerly incarcerated?
    Mr. Pearson. Absolutely, and so we are actually--there is a 
goal that is set nationally. We are actually at 107 percent of 
our goal annually, right, at this point already for this year.
    We are exceeding what the country is. The national average 
right now is about 51 percent and we are over 107 percent. We 
actually are working with intensive case management and working 
to get people to homes.
    Mr. Takano. Boy, I would love to learn more about your 
success, especially as it applies to our veterans who are 
formerly incarcerated.
    Mr. Pearson. Yes.
    Mr. Takano. We, certainly, need to find out how we can do 
this for all formerly incarcerated. Thank you so much. Well, I 
hope we can follow up with the gentleman. Thanks.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Before I introduce Representative Kim, there 
is also a program--I am on the Agriculture Committee and there 
is a program under Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program 
(SNAP) that is specifically designed to help with formerly 
incarcerated folks getting job training to make sure that they 
break that cycle of recidivism.
    That is something we could try to link together between the 
Veterans Justice Outreach Program. That is what you are 
referring to. Is that correct, Doctor?
    Mr. Pearson. Yes.
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman----
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes?
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. I am glad. On SNAP--on the Ag 
Committee on SNAP. There is so much we need to do with regard 
to food insecurity and veterans.
    Mr. Van Orden. Well, then maybe you should come to 
Wisconsin. We will talk there, sir.
    Mr. Takano. I will be glad to join you and put on a 
cheese--put on a cheese hat.
    Mr. Van Orden. That is now in the congressional Record. You 
all heard it.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Van Orden. I now recognize Representative Kim for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Kim. Thank you, Chairman.
    The purpose of the hearing is to hear from all of you, the 
experts who are actually working in this space and actually 
working with the veterans--homeless veterans, specifically.
    As we are talking about the best practices here in San 
Diego County and on the--especially from the Oceanside area 
where you work with a lot of veterans, I wonder in part of your 
best practices in trying to get the support and the resources 
to them because, at the end of the day, we are all here having 
this discussion to better serve the veterans so that we can get 
them out of being homeless into someplace that are stable. That 
is the ultimate goal here.
    In that process how much of your work and effort really 
involve dialoguing and talking directly with the veterans? I 
wanted to know if you can share some of the best practices that 
have worked really well, but at the same time can you also talk 
about some of the initiatives that you found to be less 
impactful in the process?
    I really want to take the information that I am gathering 
here today to be able to take it back to my district, which is 
just next door.
    Mr. Estrella. Congresswoman, I can offer for the county of 
San Diego, I mean, as established it has an existing Office of 
Veteran Services and Affairs.
    That has been a part of our program for many years and, of 
course, most recently the Office of Homeless Solutions was 
created within Health and Human Services Agency specifically 
for outreach and services and creation of new interventions.
    As a part of that very much veterans are included with that 
and then, most importantly, regionally for the entire San Diego 
County region the county right now is in a 15-month effort, you 
know, to create an action plan and blueprint to end veterans' 
homelessness for functional zero.
    Going along the lines of best practices very much that 
regional emphasis and having very specific offices that are 
charged to provide specific interventions to address the needs 
of, you know, each population in the best way that meets them 
where they are and provides the needs that they specifically 
encounter. Thank you.
    Ms. Kim. Ms. Hines, can you talk about, in addition to the 
first question but also if there is any initiative that you 
found to be less impactful?
    Ms. Hines. Sure. Just to add on to the county's efforts, I 
think all of us as local jurisdictions need to play the part. 
We have heard a lot about outreach and intervention.
    I think that that really is the best practice, getting out 
where our veterans are, where folks are. Oceanside has a strong 
history of community events, outreach. We house four community 
resource centers in our more disadvantaged areas.
    Getting information out to our military community before 
they are at risk, before they are homeless, to connect them to 
the right resources, to connect them to the VA, we should be 
leveraging those touch points, if you will, on a day to day.
    Someone may be coming to a farmers market. Certainly, if 
that veteran is thinking--a military personnel thinking about 
and being discharged from the military, having VA part of the 
farmers market, part of resource events that we hold and doing 
that direct outreach, I think, would be beneficial because I 
really think and believe that, again, the theme prevention and 
intervention before.
    Ms. Kim. Sure.
    I would like to ask one last question to Mr. Pearson. You 
know, when VA hears about, you know, from officials like you 
from San Diego County about a particular homelessness program 
that is working really well do you communicate these successes 
to stakeholders at other VA regions to try to replicate them 
and then make sure that all regions are helping our veterans?
    Mr. Pearson. Thank you for that question.
    Yes, we do. We do. As a medical center director
    --we have a forum for medical center directors. It also 
goes up to the network VISN--to the Veterans Integrated Service 
Networks--but also at the case management level.
    All the case management, everybody, is basically working 
together in the various communities to share all those best 
practices.
    Ms. Kim. Well, thank you so much. I will yield back the 
balance of my time.
    Mr. Van Orden. Outstanding.
    Well, thank you very much for coming. The witnesses are now 
excused and I do hope you stick around for the second panel so 
you can get information from them.
    We will take a short recess and get set up for the second 
panel.
    [Recess.]
    Mr. Van Orden. All right. This hearing will reconvene. I 
would like to learn how to turn on my microphone.
    I would like to welcome the witnesses to our second panel 
to the table and, please, just going to ask you to stand and 
raise your right hand.
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to 
provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth?
    [Witnesses are sworn.]
    Mr. Van Orden. Excellent. You may be seated. Thank you. Let 
the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the 
affirmative. It is Anglea? Is that correct?
    Mr. Anglea. Anglea, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Wow. How about that? Mr. Anglea. Awesome. 
You are now recognized for 5 minutes for your testimony.
    Mr. Anglea. Wait, where are the colors?

                    STATEMENT OF GREG ANGLEA

    Mr. Anglea. Thank you, sir.
    My name is Greg Anglea. I am here on behalf of Interfaith 
Community Services. We are a community-based organization 
serving individuals in need throughout San Diego County, 
primarily here in North San Diego County. We provide more than 
75 different programs and last year we had the honor of serving 
786 veterans in need.
    I am here on behalf of the veterans we have served, on 
behalf of our teams, to share a boots on the ground perspective 
of what works, what has been proven effective, and what we need 
to do more of in order to end veteran homelessness here in San 
Diego and support efforts to end veteran homelessness 
throughout this country.
    As I shared in my written testimony, we have decreased 
homelessness as a nation more than 55 percent and the two 
biggest factors in that have been a significant increase in 
investment of resources by the Federal Government and the 
development of strong partnerships, which we have heard a lot 
of today and you have seen here locally. That is partnerships 
between government, community-based organizations, and 
providers.
    As has been referenced, the grant per diem transitional 
housing program has had additional funding that sunsets next 
week on May 11th. That program, which my organization provides 
beds here in Oceanside--64 beds, community-based beds--that 
program has historically been under funded and providers like 
ours have been hamstrung with what we are able to provide.
    I want to share some personal experiences of who we are 
working with so you can understand the level of complexity we 
are dealing with. I will not detail their experiences. It is 
more in depth in the written testimony I provided.
    I shared about Mr. Jones, a Vietnam veteran Marine, who 
came to Interfaith Community Services after he lost his 
daughter and his wife within a 1-week period. He attempted 
suicide and was homeless.
    I shared about Mr. Martin, a Navy veteran who was nearly 
beaten to death in a park while experiencing homelessness. He 
came to Interfaith with a traumatic brain injury, with memory 
loss, and substance use disorder.
    I shared about Ms. Smith, an Army veteran, who has a long 
history of abuse and trauma from people close to her in her 
life and from her military service.
    Next week on May 12th the rate of reimbursement to 
organizations like my own to help individuals like Mr. Jones, 
Mr. Martin, and Ms. Smith will decrease from a maximum of $152 
per day to $64 per day.
    That amount is not enough to purchase a hotel room in a 
community like this, let alone provide housing and the care 
that we were able to successfully provide to the veterans I 
just described.
    Mr. Martin has been approved for HUD-VASH, passed his 
appointment for an interview. He is moving into a new apartment 
home of his own in the coming weeks.
    I included additional testimony from Ms. Smith, who is a 
successful graduate of Veterans Treatment Court, has completed 
her education and is committing her career to helping other 
veterans in crisis.
    These life-changing improvements are not possible in a 
community like San Diego or most communities in this country 
for about $60 a day. It does not fund the housing that these 
veterans need. It does not provide the case management, the 
addiction treatment, the mental health, the employment services 
that are provided.
    My organization has the opportunity to provide a number of 
these services in partnership with Federal and local 
government. We provide recuperative care programs for veterans 
exiting a hospital with a recuperative need.
    I discussed the grant per diem transitional housing 
programs. We are also providing employment assistance, and then 
there was talk on the panel earlier about prevention. We 
provide that as well funded through private donations because 
there is not enough of the existing government resources to 
provide that.
    We strongly, strongly support going back to the 
transitional housing piece, the grant per diem. Passage of acts 
like H.R. 491, Return Home to Housing Act, or other legislation 
that can increase the reimbursement for these programs.
    As we also think about the challenges accessing things like 
HUD-VASH and other resources, the grant per diem program is a 
place. It is a safe haven for veterans to go to access a stable 
home, and for these staff to help these individuals to get into 
permanent housing we do need more support. I outlined some 
other strategies.
    I will close with the words of one of the individuals I 
shared from her words, that she will soldier on. Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Greg Anglea Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Very well. Thank you, Mr. Anglea.
    I just--it occurred to me that I did not realize how that 
was pronounced and it is apropos that you are representing the 
Interfaith Community Services.
    I would now like to recognize Ms. Scrapper for 5 minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF HANAN SCRAPPER

    Ms. Scrapper. Good afternoon to the assembled members of 
this distinguished committee and thank you to Congressman Levin 
for the kind invitation.
    I am Hanan Scrapper, regional director for PATH San Diego 
and it is my great honor to be here on behalf of my 
organization. PATH is the most impactful homeless service 
provider in California, serving over 60 percent of the Golden 
State's unhoused population.
    I supervise many programs targeting veterans experiencing 
homelessness including grant per diem, or GPD, Veterans Affairs 
Supportive Housing or HUD-VASH, Supportive Services for Veteran 
Families, or SSVF, and the Homeless Veterans Reintegration 
Program, or HVRP.
    We also operate a veteran justice reentry program funded 
through the county where we pick up each veteran upon their 
release from custody and ensure they have immediate housing 
placement while providing the supportive services geared toward 
preventing reentry.
    At any given time we have a little over 400 veterans 
enrolled in our programs with an average age of 50. Veterans 
make up about 9 percent of our unsheltered population and 7 
percent of the shelter population in the San Diego region. On 
average there are about 900 individuals who are veterans that 
experience homelessness each month.
    As a community we house about 80 veterans each month on an 
average inflow of 130. To achieve functional zero we need to 
house over a hundred veterans each month. San Diego has a 
strong collaboration with the VA, the continuum of care, 
veteran service providers, and our public housing authorities, 
which is how we were able to reduce veteran homelessness by 30 
percent last year.
    However, the high cost of housing in our region makes it 
challenging for us to find viable affordable housing for our 
veteran families. The average income for veterans in our 
programs is $1,600 per month and an average cost of a one-
bedroom is $2,200.
    Based on these numbers, we are finding veterans to be rent 
burdened, which is proven to place these households at high 
risk of eviction and financial instability.
    San Diego is one of the pilot communities to launch the 
shallow subsidy program through SSVF. Shallow subsidy expands 
housing options and increases the veterans' households' ability 
to meet other costly living expenses while receiving a fixed 
rate of rental assistance.
    This program has been a tremendous help in bridging the gap 
of housing affordability for veterans who meet the eligibility. 
This also shows that SSVF is serving veterans with high needs 
who may need--who may not meet eligibility for HUD-VASH. It 
would be beneficial to consider a multidisciplinary team for 
SSVF that is geared toward meeting the needs of veterans we 
serve in this program.
    We are also very excited to be a grantee for the HUD-VASH 
program in partnership with the VA and San Diego County. As the 
lead street outreach provider for the city and county with 
nearly 70 staff deployed across the region, our goal is to 
connect every veteran we encounter on the streets to a 
permanent housing intervention.
    I wanted to share a veteran family story to demonstrate the 
level of collaboration that was needed to end their 
homelessness. I did change their names for protecting their 
identity.
    Veteran Angela was experiencing homelessness when she 
connected with our SSVF program. Angela had an 8 percent 
household and was caring for two elderly members of the 
household.
    Due to their situation, the household was spread across the 
county. Some were in their vehicles. Others were couch surfing. 
Once Angela and her family were enrolled in our SSVF program we 
were able to place them in a hotel with emergency housing 
assistance.
    During this process we connected them to HUD-VASH and our 
housing specialists located permanent housing through SSVF 
while providing application fees, double security deposit, and 
5 months of rental subsidy until their HUD-VASH subsidy kicked 
in. The veteran family is happily housed and stable.
    Sadly, we know that not every veteran household story ends 
this way. We need to treat veteran homelessness as a 
humanitarian crisis, which is why it is imperative that we 
maintain many of the waivers that were in place during COVID-19 
pandemic.
    Some of the pandemic-era waivers we found to be helpful are 
expanding the length of rental assistance beyond 9 months for 
SSVF, expanding eligibility for homeless prevention assistance 
and shallow subsidy, and increasing providers' flexibility to 
use hotels for GPD programs for veterans who may be more 
successful in a noncongregate setting.
    PATH and fellow providers are a final safety net when all 
other systems and policies fail. We appreciate the dedication 
of this committee and this Congress to helping us increase the 
options available to serving our country's veterans.
    It was a great honor to be here today. Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Hanan Scrapper Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much, ma'am--Ms. Scrapper, 
and along with Mr. Anglea's testimony. Written statements will 
be entered into the hearing record.
    Dr. Potash.
    Mr. Potash. That is correct.
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes. You are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
deliver your testimony.

                   STATEMENT OF DUSTIN POTASH

    Mr. Potash. Thank you so much.
    Good afternoon, members of this committee and fellow 
providers. I am honored to be here on behalf of Adjoin.
    My name is Dr. Dustin Potash and I have the honor and 
privilege of serving as the veterans' director for Adjoin. I 
oversee multiple programs including the SSVF and shallow 
subsidy programs. With nearly 12 years of work in this sector 
our organization is built upon the housing first model, 
ensuring the goal of low barriers to entry for those in need.
    San Diego has seen a reduction in veteran homelessness 
through the use of the SSVF and shallow subsidy programs. These 
reduced numbers have only come because of the continued efforts 
made by service providers, Congress, and local partners, and 
the use of the housing first model.
    This model ensures that those veterans who may have mental 
health needs due to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) from 
events during their time in the military have permanent housing 
to better address their needs.
    Many of our clients come in with high barriers that make it 
very difficult for them to be housed. We would encourage this 
committee to continue the landlord incentive program so that we 
can continue to offer more options.
    At this time I would like to share a story of one of our 
clients. The names have been changed.
    Emily is an Air Force veteran who received an honorable 
discharge. When she came into the program she was living in an 
abandoned RV that had no running water or electricity. She had 
been asked to leave the RV as it was parked on someone's 
property.
    Emily was a registered nurse. By the time she came to the 
program her nursing license was suspended. Emily had a service 
connection compensation of $1,100 per month from the VA. At the 
time of enrollment Emily's money was spent on paying for drug 
testing as required by the licensing board as part of her 
efforts to reinstate her license.
    Most of the time Emily was left with no money for other 
needs. Emily was in high crisis mode when she reached out to be 
enrolled in the SSVF program and it was often challenging to 
engage with her.
    Emily was consistently stressed due to not having a place 
to live and no money to cover basic needs. Emily was estranged 
from friends and family due to her constantly asking them for 
money to sustain her needs.
    With the assistance of an SSVF housing coordinator Emily 
found a unit that she liked and we helped her move in. Emily 
continued to work on completing all requirements with the 
licensing board and after being housed she was able to apply 
for Cal-Fresh assistance and was approved.
    With the assistance of Adjoin with rent payments and 
utilities Emily was able to concentrate on getting her nursing 
license reinstated. Emily is now a full time nurse at a local 
hospital making $36 an hour.
    Her license was reinstated in January 2022. Emily has since 
moved into our shallow subsidy program where she has been very 
successful.
    We appreciate the dedication of this committee and this 
Congress for helping to find more solutions to end veterans' 
homelessness like Emily.
    I do believe, however, there is still a gap in our system 
when it comes to a service member transitioning from the 
military to civilian life. When talking to many of our clients 
many of them state they were rushed out of the military with no 
plan in place, which played a role in them becoming homeless.
    Since my separation from the military I know this committee 
and Congress has implemented the Transition Assistance Program 
to help service members with resources, classes, and training 
but I believe it needs to go a step further.
    It is my belief that service members should already have a 
job, permanent housing, and VA disability income if applicable 
all secured before leaving the military. I do not know whose 
responsibility that falls onto, the military or the community.
    One possible solution is to allow providers and grantees to 
be a part of that transition process on military installations. 
I believe this type of collaboration will drastically reduce 
the number of homeless veterans not just here in San Diego 
County but nationwide.
    The rental rates here in San Diego are high and the 
available housing is low, which is another barrier for our 
clients. A possible solution would be to allow SSVF and shallow 
subsidy providers to turn rundown hotels and motels into 
permanent housing units.
    Case management and wraparound services would be available 
onsite to address needs. Ending veteran homelessness can be 
achieved with out-of-the-box thinking and working as a 
collaborative.
    It was an honor and privilege to testify in front of you at 
this committee about the SSVF programs, shallow subsidy 
programs, and some possible solutions to better protect those 
veterans who served us.
    I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Dustin Potash Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Dr. Potash.
    The written statement of Dr. Potash will be entered into 
the hearing record.
    Mr. Spear, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF SEAN SPEAR

    Mr. Spear. Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden and Ranking 
Member Levin. My name is Sean Spear and I am president and CEO 
of Community Housing Works.
    I, first, want to thank you for holding this hearing today 
and giving each of us the opportunity to share our perspectives 
and ideas with you.
    As mentioned earlier, Community Housing Works is a 
nonprofit affordable housing developer and owner. We also 
provide services to our residents as well.
    We are a nationally recognized organization that has been 
around for 35 years serving the greater San Diego County, 
although we have properties in other--in eight other counties 
scattered throughout California as well as property in Texas.
    We emphasize providing affordable housing for working 
families, seniors, and those with special needs, including 
veterans and other people who may have recently experienced 
homelessness.
    CHW believes that opportunity begins with a stable home and 
providing a place that translates to a sense of pride of self 
and that that spirit of hope leads to the realization of 
dreams.
    Today CHW owns more than 4,000 life-changing apartment 
homes across the State as well as in Texas, as I mentioned 
earlier, with--and that we--our services themselves emphasize 
the notions of providing better outcomes to our residents once 
they have moved into our developments.
    Our services themselves focus on education outcomes from K 
through five all the way through those graduating high school 
and going on to college or to other certificate programs.
    We also provide financial sustainability and well-being 
programs and also health and well-being programs primarily 
geared toward seniors and those with special needs.
    Our informal model is we build futures and that emphasizes 
that we do not just provide a roof over people's heads but that 
we also help them achieve their dreams of a better future for 
themselves and their loved ones.
    We at CHW pride ourselves on serving people of many 
different backgrounds, including our community's honored 
veterans who have done so much for us. We currently have 
dedicated veteran units in four of our housing communities with 
additional self-identified veterans living within two other CHW 
supportive housing communities that are utilizing our partner-
provided case management services.
    Whether it is from our own staff in terms of providing the 
services or from third party partners, a few of which are at 
this table with me, as well as partnerships with the Veterans 
Administration more recently, the emphasis is really on 
providing resident services that are freely offered to these 
residents with the goal of helping them develop a sense of 
belonging, camaraderie, and pride for one another and their 
community.
    For our veterans specifically this work could not be done 
without the strong partnership that we have recently forged 
with the VA as well as other local HUD-supported public housing 
authorities.
    I want to emphasize that while we have built positive and 
lasting relationships with our local VA offices while utilizing 
the HUD Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing Program, or VASH 
for short, we believe that there are administrative steps that 
Congress could facilitate to have this program support the 
creation of even more veteran-serving affordable housing as 
well as get vulnerable veterans into those units more quickly.
    In my written statement shared with you earlier I provided 
some detail on a set of challenges and suggested solutions 
centering around, one, reducing the time lag between when new 
units are ready and when VASH-supported veterans are able to 
move into those units; second, the unfortunate disqualification 
of many needy veterans from being able to occupy those units 
based upon their disability benefits and how those are treated 
in their income eligibility certification process; and, third, 
a set of real estate-related measures that could attract more 
private capital to potentially generating thousands of new 
veteran-serving affordable housing units and supportive housing 
units nationwide.
    Authority to project base more rental subsidies within a 
given community, more co-location of housing on VA-controlled 
land, expanded use of the existing funding authorized under the 
2022 PACT Act, and other key reforms that have been spelled out 
for the housing tax credit program would be potentially cost 
neutral changes that could ultimately spur more of those units 
for more veterans.
    If time permits as we go forward I am hoping to elaborate 
on some of those ideas as well.
    Just quickly to say that, you know, we really appreciate 
the opportunity to come before you, to share our ideas, and 
also hopefully discuss some solutions as we go forward. Thank 
you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Sean Spear Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Spear.
    Mr. Spear's written statement will now be entered into the 
record. We will proceed to questioning and I recognize myself 
for 5 minutes.
    I got to tell you, housing is really hard. I live in rural 
Wisconsin and we have a similar problem that you do here in San 
Diego. You call it the Pacific Ocean. I call it the Mississippi 
River.
    We just--you just cannot go that way any farther and how it 
affects me in Wisconsin's 3rd District is that we have a real 
issue housing migrant agricultural labor and it is the same 
story. You know, that is for another committee. We are here 
talking about veterans.
    I did not see in anybody's testimony the public-private 
funding breakdown comparison between, like, 2020 and 2023. Mr. 
Anglea, you referred to this, that your donations have kind 
of--not there so much anymore. What is the ratio between in 
2020 private donations, Federal Government money?
    Mr. Anglea. In 2020 the community was very generous in 
response to COVID. Private donations made up about a third of 
our revenue that year.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Mr. Anglea. For this year it will make up closer to 15 to 
20 percent, and I also spoke in my written testimony to our 
private intervention is simply not scalable to the level of the 
need.
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes. I got you.
    Ms. Scrapper.
    Ms. Scrapper. Generally, for San Diego we rely heavily on 
federal-local funding, city and state. We--about 10 percent of 
our operating budget would be maybe privately donated or 
foundations and such.
    Mr. Van Orden. That is consistent from 2020--2019 to 2023?
    Ms. Scrapper. Correct. A little spike in the pandemic 
during 2020 because people did respond generously.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    I am going to skip you for sec, sir. I am going to go to 
Mr. Spear. You were quick on that microphone.
    Mr. Spear. Sorry. We are a little bit of a different 
animal. As a affording housing developer----
    Mr. Van Orden. Right.
    Mr. Spear [continuing]. we have primarily used both a 
combination of developer fee that is allowed under some of the 
programs that we use as well as some amount of rental revenue 
that comes off of after payment of debt service on properties, 
and then we will fund raise for usually our resident services.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. If your----
    Mr. Spear. Generally, it is about a third--a third in each 
of those cases.
    Mr. Van Orden. Has there been a change in that between 2020 
or 2019 to now?
    Mr. Spear. We have seen some challenges during COVID in 
terms of our fundraising work for our resident services. That 
has rebounded a bit but we still have a target. Essentially, 
the kind of profit that we get off of the developer fee and off 
of the rental we then turn back into services.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. I just----
    Mr. Spear. We have had to put more into the services. So--
--
    Mr. Van Orden. My concern is this, and I expressed this 
when I was running for office, is that a lot of people, 
unfortunately, folded some of these funds--these emergency 
funds--into essentially programmatics and they started 
depending on them knowing full well that they were going to 
sunset.
    We got to figure out a way to continue to provide the 
services that we have, and thank you for being very honest with 
that.
    Okay. Dr. Potash, me. That is the answer to your question, 
me. I am responsible for the Transition Assistance Program as 
the chairman of this subcommittee.
    When this is not going right it is my fault, and I have 
been in Congress for 111 days or something like that. I am 
working on it. I also want--I want you to know that these are 
the problems that keep me up at night. Like, how did--how did 
Emily go from being an RN to living in a mobile home or a RV 
without electricity? Again, that did not just happen.
    You had a productive person working, I am assuming, at the 
time as a registered nurse because she lost her license. How 
did she go from there to here? Do you know the answer to that 
question? I am asking you.
    Mr. Potash. No. You know, that is a big question, right, 
and I think it goes back to before she even left the military, 
right, addressing any type of needs that she may have either 
mental health, substance abuse, the whole gamut. Someone 
actually needs to do a hand holding process for these service 
members because a lot of them do not have plans----
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes.
    Mr. Potash [continuing]. and they are being rushed out of 
the military.
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes. I just--I want to find the answer to 
that question because, again, we have to start doing upstream 
solutions----
    Mr. Potash. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden.--and the only way we are ever going to do 
that is if we really meticulously look at how did the person 
got there to begin with. Thank you very much for that.
    Mr. Potash. You are welcome.
    Mr. Van Orden. I appreciate it. With that, I yield back. I 
now recognize Ranking Member Levin for 5 minutes to question 
the witnesses.
    Mr. Levin. I thank the chairman again and I thank all of 
you for being with us and for all the great work that you do.
    Mr. Anglea, in particular I want to thank you and the work 
Interfaith does. You had mentioned that the higher per diem 
reimbursement rate for providers that operate GPD transitional 
housing is set to significantly decrease in one week and you 
also discussed how that is going to impact your ability to 
provide services and resources for veterans under your care.
    I strongly support fixing this and I hope that we can work 
on a bipartisan basis to figure this out. Short of 
congressional action what is your plan in the near term? How 
are you going to, as you said, soldier on?
    Mr. Anglea. Well, Chair Van Orden, as you described, many 
organizations received emergency one-time support that was 
built into ongoing programming. We did not. We used the one-
time support to provide one-time additional assistance to the 
veterans we were working with.
    What that means, though, is that we were not able to 
provide wage increases that we would like to our master's-
educated case managers, to our licensed behavioral health 
specialists providing mental health services, to the addiction 
treatment specialists doing this work.
    We are working to secure additional revenue sources, 
particularly public-private partnerships with health care to 
bring forward additional revenues to increase those salaries so 
that we can bring on credentialed workers to do this.
    Also, increasing peer engagement specialists with lived 
homeless experience, and we will rely upon the generosity of 
this community to support that work and do the best that we 
can.
    Mr. Levin. Well, you have my commitment, being very 
knowledgeable about the work that you do, that our office will 
do whatever we can to assist in that regard.
    Ms. Scrapper, I was really pleased to hear PATH is now 
providing services for veterans residing in permanent housing 
in the HUD-VASH program. I have been exploring tweaks to 
modernize the HUD-VASH program including expanding eligibility 
to veterans with less acute needs than those historically 
served.
    Given the significant number of unused HUD-VASH vouchers 
across the country and here in San Diego the hope would be to 
allow more veterans who just need the vouchers to utilize them 
while ensuring case management is retained for veterans who 
need that support.
    Could you discuss how that might affect the allocation of 
case management resources for the veterans who require the most 
intensive services?
    Ms. Scrapper. Thank you, Congressman.
    I think if we are thinking about having HUD-VASH vouchers 
for veterans who may not need the case management component I 
would worry about losing the much-needed vouchers for those who 
truly need case management unless we are thinking about 
increasing that utilization or the number of vouchers that 
would come into the community.
    This would absolutely bridge the gap in housing 
affordability that we are talking about because veterans may 
not need that long-term high need case management but they are 
still at high risk of recidivism and continuously being in the 
cycle of homelessness if they are not in a housing stable 
situation.
    I would say, first, we need to fix our utilization rate so 
that we are getting more referrals of veterans into housing and 
also looking at the inflow and preventing homelessness from 
occurring to begin with, and then also utilizing basic Section 
8 that could be considered HUD-VASH that--for veterans who need 
that long-term subsidy without case management.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you for that answer for the work that you 
do.
    Mr. Spear, I will turn to you. I appreciated you sharing 
how Community Housing Works uses the project-based HUD-VASH 
voucher allocations to develop permanent supportive housing for 
veterans, and I think you heard the commentary on our first 
panel with our government witnesses about the slow uptake of 
these sorts of projects in our region.
    Do you have any comments you would like to share in 
response to that discussion, how should public agencies be 
working with organizations like yours and how can we improve 
these numbers?
    Mr. Spear. Yes. I think the biggest thing is the notion of 
the availability of it and, you know, there is a process for 
being able to dedicate a certain number of units to serving 
veterans through the VASH program.
    Certainly, you would want to have more bang for the buck by 
being able to kind of lift that cap that was spoken to earlier 
about the notion of no more than 10 units or no more than 10 
percent of a given development.
    This is a resource that when used properly then can 
leverage an additional amount of private capital to come to the 
deal. By having the rent revenue in the FMRs that gets set, for 
instance, by, like, Oceanside and having that become the basis 
for the rent that then can attract more debt to the project 
that means less public resources that need to be done in order 
to do that affordable housing development.
    It is a win-win in terms of being able to not only have 
additional veterans served but also be able to leverage 
valuable public resources for more private capital.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you so much for all the work you are 
doing. I am out of time but greatly appreciate you all being 
with us. Look forward to working with you in the months and 
years ahead. I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. I want to thank everybody for coming out 
today and to have me back in California, even though I would 
much rather be in Wisconsin, let us be honest. I just--I love 
it there. You guys come visit. You will see. I will give you 
cheese and your choice of malt beverage.
    Listen, no veteran should be going unhoused. We just--we 
just should not, and some of my veteran brothers and sisters, 
unfortunately, you know, wind up in that situation.
    I want to thank you, Mr. Levin, for having us here. I 
really do appreciate it and I appreciate your openness and your 
candor and the fact that I truly believe that you care about 
what we are dealing with and that you truly understand that 
sometimes we are not going to agree on everything. I guarantee 
if we keep these people and our veterans on the forefront of 
our minds that we are going to come to an equitable solution.
    Thank you very much for that. We are going to get back to 
D.C. and we are going to go to work. That is what--I came here 
to get tasked by you and I am going to get down and I am going 
to sit down, as I said, with Ranking Member Levin here and come 
up with some solutions that are the best for the most amount of 
people we possibly can come up with because that is what we 
have been tasked to do by you folks here.
    That is what we tasked Mike with and back in the 3rd that 
is what they tasked me to do. I will tell you what, I have 
learned several different things that were disconcerting during 
your testimony and, again, a lot of these problems keep me up 
at night.
    I am a retired senior enlisted man, which means the rubber 
will meet the road. There is a lot of time for talk. There is 
time for some action.
    With that said, I would like to yield back to Ranking 
Member Levin for any concluding remarks you might have.
    Mr. Levin. Well, I just want to thank the chairman again 
for joining us today and I want to thank all of our witnesses 
on the first panel and the second for representing our 
community really, really well.
    I am so grateful for the leadership that you show and the 
collaboration that you employ in your duties to serve our 
veteran community and it is really an honor to get to work with 
all of you in your responsibilities.
    I will also take back to Washington, D.C., that sense of 
camaraderie and that sense of collaboration because I think it 
is sorely lacking in Washington, D.C.
    I really want to thank the staff as well, both majority and 
minority, for working together in a spirit of collaboration as 
well as has been the case for the last number of years on the 
committee.
    I look forward to going to Wisconsin. I am ready and I am 
also ready to take you to one of the great craft breweries in 
North County San Diego after this hearing.
    With that--with that, I will yield back. Thank you.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin.
    Again, thank you all again for participating in today's 
hearing. I ask unanimous consent that all members may have five 
legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include 
extraneous materials and I ask unanimous consent to enter into 
the record a statement from the San Diego Regional Housing 
Commission. Without objection, so ordered.
    This hearing stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:43 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
=======================================================================


                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                    Prepared Statement of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                  Prepared Statement of Frank Pearson

    Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and 
distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. I also want to acknowledge 
Ranking Member Takano who is also with us today. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify on the topic of Veteran homelessness and the 
challenges and efforts in ending homelessness among Veterans in San 
Diego. I am accompanied today by Jill Albanese, Senior Advisor and 
Director of Clinical Operations, VA Homeless Programs Office.

Introduction

    While VA provides programs and support services to combat Veteran 
homelessness nationwide, we are here to speak about the Healthcare for 
Homeless Veterans (HCHV) Program at the VA San Diego Healthcare System 
(VASDHS). Our programs have served Veterans to promote housing 
stability since 1987, and we work collaboratively with many community 
partners to ensure a full continuum of care and services.
    The COVID-19 pandemic brought forth many added challenges for 
Veterans facing housing instability. However, the VA San Diego HCHV 
team relied on innovative solutions, initiatives, and collaborations to 
ensure that Veterans have access to housing and services to the 
greatest extent possible. This has been achieved through full 
participation in coordinated outreach and the use of the community's 
coordinated entry system, the provision of permanent and transitional 
housing programs and referrals, and the strengthening of our community-
based partnerships.
    During the 2022 Point in Time (PIT) Count, the San Diego region 
recorded a total of 8,427 sheltered and unsheltered individuals 
experiencing homelessness on a single night in February. Sheltered 
individuals were considered residing in an emergency shelter, 
transitional housing, or a safe haven. Unsheltered individuals were 
considered residing in a location not meant for habitation. Of the 
persons counted as homeless, 686 (8 percent) self-identified as 
Veterans. The homeless person's status as a Veteran and their character 
of discharge were not verified during the Count. Of those who self-
identified as Veterans, 308 were sheltered and 378 were unsheltered. 
Based on these annual counts, the total number of Veterans experiencing 
homelessness in the region has decreased by 27 percent since 2020. 
During this same period, the count for the non-Veteran community 
increased by 10 percent. The PIT counts show a downward trend of the 
region's number of Veterans experiencing homelessness which has 
decreased by 58 percent. The COVID-19 pandemic caused a national 
suspension of the 2021 Point in Time Count.
    Despite decreasing homelessness since 2011, there were challenges 
in meeting National VA Goals for permanent housing placements in San 
Diego. Nationally, the calendar year (CY) 2022 goal was to house 38,000 
Veterans, with San Diego being assigned 842 of those 38,000 placements. 
During 2022, we housed 704 Veterans, reaching 84 percent of our goal. 
While we increased our housing placements from the year prior, we fell 
short of meeting the CY 2022 Permanent Housing Placement goal. San 
Diego original goal was impacted by special circumstances in FY 2021 
during the COVID-19 pandemic. In 2020 and 2021, the city of San Diego 
utilized the Convention Center and centralized all services for 
homeless individuals in the area. This created efficiencies that 
enabled us to increase the rate of housing placements. These 
efficiencies were not able to be replicated when the Convention Center 
closed in 2021, which had an impact on providing services and housing 
Veterans in 2022. VA San Diego has also implemented many initiatives 
reflected in the testimony below to meet CY 2023 Permanent Housing 
Placement goals, aimed at increasing permanent housing, decreasing 
recidivism and engaging with Veterans facing homelessness.

COVID 19 Pandemic Impact on Homeless Services

    Many of our strongest partnerships and initiatives were further 
developed during the early months of the global pandemic. During this 
period, VA and our community partners embraced the public health 
mandate that aligned with increased funding to engage and house as many 
Veterans as possible. While this time was challenging, there were 
positive and long-lasting impacts on the community that led to rapid 
housing that reflects the decrease in the Point in Time Count data 
above. Examples include:

      The city of San Diego utilization of the Convention 
Center to ensure that all individuals and families struggling with 
homelessness had access to shelter, basic necessities and services. 
This allowed VA San Diego to increase collaboration with community 
partners to streamline services and focus engagement efforts in one 
location. VA Programs had over 200 admissions into HUD-VASH and 135 
Veterans were transferred directly from the Convention Center into 
housing over 11 months. This streamlined process was supported further 
by Department of Housing and Urban Development waivers, which San Diego 
Housing Commission applied for, and provided increased flexibilities of 
documentation that was needed to apply for housing vouchers. While the 
national waivers have ended, and the Convention Center closed, these 
enhanced partnerships between VA San Diego and our community partners 
endure.

      Funding flexibilities that permitted Grant and Per Diem 
(GPD) to increase the maximum per diem rate for grant recipients which 
resulted in additional services to Veterans, including COVID-19 
isolation hotels, increased wages for staff retainment, additional 
support staff such as housing navigators, and creation of isolation 
rooms, in addition to other support services. Each GPD grant recipient 
in San Diego benefited from the increased per diem rates which 
addressed increased local operational costs. After May 11, 2023, the 
per diem rates will return to no more than 115 percent of the State 
Home domiciliary rate which is a maximum GPD grant per diem rate of 
$64.82 per Veteran per night. We support the legislative proposal 
included in the FY 2024 budget that allows VA to increase per diem 
payments up to 200 percent of the State Home domiciliary rate. The 
increased per diem rates are essential to the survival of our 
transitional housing programs, and to ensure Veterans receive the 
support they require on their way to permanent housing.

      Programs including Ride Share, which enabled Veterans 
improved access to health care and housing services. Through Ride 
Share, over 4,400 rides were provided in FY (FY) 2022, with almost 50 
percent of those rides being used for medical care, and other rides 
being given for therapy appointments, vaccinations, employment, 
housing, legal follow up, and to access food.

      Supportive Services for Veteran Families (SSVF) provided 
hotel vouchers to be utilized by Veterans who required a non-congregate 
setting prior to obtaining permanent housing services.

      SSVF also released a special Notice of Funding 
Availability (NOFA) in FY 2022 to provide funding and increased 
opportunities to support Veterans, including housing navigation staff 
and support to locate housing and engage with landlords. In addition, 
the NOFA included special funding to assist in payments for Veteran 
security deposits, landlord incentives, and a discretionary fund for 
Veteran stabilization post housing.

      VA San Diego established new partnerships with community-
based programs including Landlord Engagement and Assistance Program, 
Brilliant Corners, and San Diego County's Landlord Incentive Programs. 
These programs provide ancillary financial support, housing navigation, 
and a discretionary fund to Veterans seeking and stabilizing in 
permanent housing. These partnerships expedited permanent housing 
placements in a housing market that has a high cost of living and low 
vacancy rates.

    VA Continuum of Care & Programs for Veterans with Housing 
Instability

    The VA San Diego Healthcare for Homeless Veterans (HCHV) Program 
provides a continuum of services that includes outreach, medical care, 
transitional and permanent housing programs, legal support, employment 
services, and many partnerships with community providers. In FY 2022, 
the Healthcare for Homeless Veterans team served over 2,000 unique 
Veterans within the continuum of care. These programs work 
collaboratively with each other, as well as with our community 
partners, to assist Veterans in accessing housing and clinically 
indicated resources to move toward the goal of ending and preventing 
Veteran homelessness.

    The VA San Diego HCHV Outreach team utilizes a combination of 
clinic and street-based interventions to engage Veterans and provide 
resources and referrals. They work closely with our community partners 
to screen and refer Veterans to appropriate housing and clinical 
services. This is achieved through partnering in the community and 
meeting with Veterans together, connecting through our Coordinated 
Entry System, bi-monthly case conferencing, and attending community-
based meetings. Additionally, there is a walk-in clinic located at the 
VASDHS and staff respond to 40-50 hospital-based consults on a monthly 
basis and over 200 monthly national calls from the National Call Center 
for Homeless Veterans. In FY 2022, VASDHS received 2,708 calls and as 
of March 2023, VASDHS has received 1,413 calls from the National Call 
Center.

    Special initiatives on this team include:

      North County partnership with Interfaith Community 
Services, Oceanside Homeless Outreach Team, People Assisting The 
Homeless in Downtown San Diego, within the Homelessness Response 
Center, coordinated outreach events planned by the city of San Diego, 
and multiple annual stand down events. Stand downs are events during 
which VA staff collaborates with our community partners and volunteers 
to provide food, clothing and health screenings to homeless and at-risk 
Veterans. In addition, Veterans also receive referrals for health care, 
housing, employment, substance use treatment, mental health counseling 
and other essential services.

      Participation in the Coordinated Outreach weekly meeting 
hosted by the City of San Diego and regular meetings with various 
homeless outreach providers.

      In the next year, the Social Work team will regionalize 
and assign an outreach specialist to different parts of the region, to 
include North County, East County, South Bay, and Central San Diego to 
include Downtown. This will increase specialization and ensure that the 
team can respond to the unique needs of each region within San Diego 
and build strong relationships with community-based outreach providers.

    VA Transitional Housing Programs offer both Grant and Per Diem 
(GPD) beds and Contract Residential Specialty Beds with a variety of 
program models including bridge housing, service intensive beds, low 
demand, and clinical treatment. In FY 2022, these programs served more 
than 450 unique Veterans amongst 5 different programs. VA liaisons work 
collaboratively with community partners with clinical and 
administrative collaboration meetings to decrease barriers to entry, 
enhance engagement, and connect Veterans to services. They ensure each 
Veteran has a viable permanent housing plan. New transitional housing 
programs that aim to enhance Veterans services include:

      Under 38 USC 2061, a new Special Needs Grant for the 
Frail and Older Adult Veteran population that works with individuals 
who struggle in at least one activity of daily living.

      Existing community partners have recently applied for 
both transitional housing and case management grants to improve access 
to services for Veterans.

      Partnerships between transitional housing programs and 
Supportive Services for Veteran Families and HUD-VASH to ensure timely 
referrals and access to permanent housing placements.

    The VA Homeless-Patient Aligned Care Team (H-PACT) team offers both 
walk-in and scheduled appointments to more than 300 enrolled Veterans, 
assisting Veterans in transitioning out of the hospital and those who 
require regular primary care services. Currently, a third of those 
enrolled in H-PACT are over 65 years of age and have Care Assessment 
Need (CAN) scores of over 90, which indicates that they have higher 
medical and mental health needs. The H-PACT team works closely with 
both VA medical services and the VA homeless team to ensure that the 
Veterans have increased access to care and housing supports.

    Special initiatives include:

      A vaccination effort in response to community outbreaks 
of hepatitis A.

      Ongoing efforts to better integrate primary care medical 
services into the VA Emergency Department to ensure that any Veteran 
needing emergency care has primary care follow up, and to divert those 
from the emergency room to primary care, when medically indicated.

      A mobile medical unit is slated to be delivered in 
quarter (Q)4 of this year that will aim to increase medical outreach 
services in the community. The medical unit will allow H-PACT staff to 
go into the community to meet with Veterans where they reside for 
medical care and support. The medical unit will be shared with the 
outreach team for additional efforts to engage Veterans who require 
housing supports or other services.

    The Veterans Justice Outreach (VJO) Program provides outreach, 
resources, referrals, and case management services to Veterans with a 
variety of justice-involved needs, ranging from those participating in 
Treatment Court to those who are incarcerated, those that may be on 
probation/parole, and for those in need of homeless court advocacy. 
Assisting Veterans in navigating their legal challenges, allows for a 
better transition from incarceration to housing, ensures that legal 
debts can be forgiven so Veterans can focus on their housing or 
clinical needs, and supports diversion so Veterans can access care over 
incarceration. Special initiatives include:

      Case management services to Veterans involved in the 
following treatment court programs: San Diego Superior Court's Veterans 
Treatment Court, Federal Military Diversion Court, Homeless Court 
Program, and Federal Veterans Treatment Court.

      Homeless Court began in 1989, during the first Stand 
Down, and inspired many other communities to build similar courts to 
serve those struggling with legal infractions linked to housing 
instability. Homeless Court assists any individual that is working on 
their housing and clinical goals, to address legal infractions and 
fines. In FY 2022, Homeless Court dismissed $27,345 in court fines and 
fees across 20 participants, with over $375,000 of fines and fees 
dismissed since 2018. This program began in 2013, with close to 400 
Veteran participants.

      A Veterans Module at the Sheriff's Department in the 
Vista Detention Center to offer information, resources, and participate 
in discharge planning for incarcerated Veterans to ensure that Veterans 
are linked to housing, substance use, medical, mental health, and 
employment programs prior to their release and case management services 
and post services to help reduce recidivism.

      A recent expansion of Veteran services within the San 
Diego Prison network offering resource information for incarcerated 
Veterans regarding filing for VA benefits and resources needed for 
reentry.

    Employment Support: The HCHV team has employment readiness staff 
for those who are interested in workforce participation. Many Veterans 
face challenges to obtain or maintain employment when struggling with 
housing instability, and they benefit from full or part time employment 
once they are housed. Their interventions include assistance with job 
placement, coaching, referrals to appropriate community training 
programs, resume building, and other employment readiness, which can 
include civilian employment opportunities at Federal agencies. The US 
Department of Labor provides many Veteran employment services to 
include Veteran job listings on USAJobs.gov, information on starting a 
business through the Small Business Administration, a national resource 
directory, My Next Move for Veterans, employment opportunities by 
industry, and the Career One Stop website for career exploration, 
training, and jobs. Currently, the VA San Diego has two Employment 
Specialists providing services to 173 Veterans. Employment outcomes 
within the VA San Diego HUD-VASH program are currently at 41.46 
percent, and GPD employment rates are at 50 percent. VA San Diego is 
working to on-board additional staffing resources to increase 
employment services and improve employment outcomes. Special employment 
initiatives focused on continuing to meet these goals include:

      Increased collaboration between employment support and 
transitional housing program participants to assist Veterans in 
accessing employment support as they prepare to transition to permanent 
housing.

      Job readiness groups in the Vista Detention Facility on 
the Veterans module. These groups assist Veterans with linkage to 
employment in the transition from incarceration back to the community.

    The HUD-VASH Program is a partnership with the Department of 
Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and the Veteran Affairs Supportive 
Housing (VASH) to align HUD housing vouchers for Veterans with 
supportive case management services from VA. Currently, HUD has 2,369 
vouchers among 4 different Public Housing Authorities that are assigned 
to the VASH Program. Of those, 33 are reserved for future project-based 
programs, and 35 were awarded in FY 2023, and will actively be included 
in VA metrics starting in FY 2024. Hence, there are 2,301 vouchers 
actively counted. As of March 2023, there are 1,738 Veterans housed, 
which indicates a voucher usage of 75.5 percent. However, there are 
also 147 Veterans and their families with active vouchers searching for 
housing, and 39 Veterans and their families have identified housing and 
are awaiting PHA approval to sign the lease and move forward with the 
identified unit. That indicates an 84 percent usage of vouchers, with 
16 percent (377 vouchers) available for use. In comparison to the last 
two fiscal years, the percentage of vouchers utilized has remained 
steady. However, San Diego has been awarded new vouchers each year 
which means increased housing placements for Veterans.
    We continue to expand our efforts in the HUD-VASH program with the 
work of our VA Supportive Housing Case management team, which has a 
robust multi-disciplinary team that includes Social Workers, Nurse 
Practitioners, Occupational Therapists, Housing Specialists, and 
Registered Nurses.
    They work closely together to creatively address challenges in 
voucher utilization and the needs of the Veterans they serve with many 
initiatives, to include:

      Expansion of both project vouchers and sponsor-based wrap 
around services to address challenges in availability and cost of 
housing.

      Expansion of service area into Imperial Valley and 
working collaboratively with established medical, mental health, and 
SSVF providers in the area to identify and work with Veterans requiring 
housing and case management services.

    * Service provision to Veterans that were previously considered 
ineligible due to the character of their military discharge status or 
time in service, with the national expansion of eligibility, and 
working with community-based providers for needs outside of housing.

      HUD-VASH services contract that was awarded to People 
Assisting The Homeless (PATH). The contract enables PATH to provide 
case management services for homeless Veterans and assist them with 
obtaining and maintain housing through a HUD-VASH voucher.

      VA San Diego has worked with our local Public Housing 
Authorities to identify special housing types to include board and 
cares, independent living facilities, and other shared living 
arrangements that are not traditionally used with a housing voucher. 
These housing types focus on older adult Veterans to support 
independent housing whenever clinically possible through collaboration 
with VA Geriatric Extended Care program in an initiative to identify 
available resources for our older adult Veterans and decrease barriers 
to accessing those resources.

      VA San Diego also supported San Diego Supportive Services 
for Veteran Families (SSVF) Grantees in applying for additional funds 
to support Veterans struggling in obtaining housing. These awarded 
funds allowed grantees to serve increased numbers of Veterans, as well 
as provided additional housing navigation supports, landlord 
incentives, and other financial incentives for eligible Veterans who 
have barriers to obtaining housing. This funding also expanded Veteran 
eligibility from 50 percent Area Median Income to 80 percent to allow 
more Veterans to be eligible for these services.

      VASH recognizes the need to assist Veterans who have 
graduated from services and prevent returning to homelessness. VASH's 
robust Aftercare Team provides services to Veterans who require short 
or longer-term assistance, ensuring that Veterans maintain housing. 
They engage in over 1,000 calls a year, more than 300 annual HUD 
recertifications, and support almost 800 Veterans who are considered to 
be in ``graduation status'' to ensure that services are available when 
needed. It is estimated that in FY 2022, 378 Veterans were able to 
maintain their housing vouchers due to this support.

VA Initiatives and Collaborations

    VA San Diego Healthcare System has well established partnerships 
with many different faith-based and non-profit programs including: 
Interfaith Community Services (ICS), Veterans Village of San Diego 
(VVSD); Volunteers of America; Southwest (VOA); People Assisting the 
Homeless (PATH); Regional Task Force on the Homeless (RTFH); Family 
Health Centers of San Diego (FHCSD); Alpha Project, San Diego Police 
Department Homeless Outreach Team (HOT); Oceanside Police Department 
Homeless Outreach Team (HOT); Vista Detention Center; San Diego 
Superior Court--Veterans Treatment Court; Federal Military Diversion 
Court; Federal Veterans Treatment Court; The Elks Club; AmVets; 
Brilliant Corners; The San Diego Housing Commission; The County of San 
Diego Public Housing Authority; the Imperial Valley Housing Authority; 
The city of Oceanside Public Housing Authority; HUD; and many other 
community partners. VASDHS is the co-founder of Stand Down alongside 
VVSD. These community partners have been strong allies in our efforts 
to address Veteran homelessness, and we appreciate their contributions 
to Veterans' health and welfare. VA cannot end Veteran homelessness 
alone, and depend heavily upon collaborative, joint efforts from 
community agencies and local governments.
    The VASDHS Chief, Social Work Service, is a Board Member of the San 
Diego Continuum of Care (CoC) Advisory Board. As part of the CoC, HCHV 
is a co-leader for the Veteran's Consortium Committee, which focuses on 
community action planning, data sharing, navigating community 
relationships, and creating sustainable systems in an effort to end 
Veteran homelessness. The Veteran's Consortium is dedicated to creating 
an accurate by-name-list of homeless Veterans and utilizing the case 
conferencing to identify programs and supports needed to move the 
individual to permanent housing.
    Included in this effort is the utilization of our community's 
Coordinated Entry System to track inflow and outflow of Veterans 
experiencing homelessness. This data is utilized to better understand 
Veterans needs and provide timely housing services for any Veteran 
facing housing instability. The VASDHS' HCHV program participates in 
the local Coordinated Entry System (CES). The Coordinated Entry System 
is a centralized data base system where Veterans are entered and 
matched to the most appropriate level of intervention, based on their 
acuity, vulnerability, and housing placement needs. Any participating 
agency in the region can enter homeless Veterans' information into the 
system which will connect them with available resources that are most 
appropriate to the level of intervention needed, including permanent 
supportive housing or rapid re-housing programs. In addition to the 
work with the CoC, HCHV is currently involved in the County Board of 
Supervisors' Initiative to end Veteran Homelessness and participating 
in the community workgroups created through the initiative. Past 
initiatives that VA San Diego participated in include the Mayor of San 
Diego's 1,000 Veterans program, the 25 Cities Initiative, Project 25, 
and many others.

Community Based Challenges Facing Veterans

    Although our community has made significant efforts to address 
homelessness among Veterans in the San Diego area, several challenges 
remain. This includes a lack of affordable housing inventory and the 
high cost of living in the area. San Diego also would benefit from 
increased prevention funds to help Veterans and families maintain in 
their current housing whenever possible. We support the FY 2024 HUD 
budget proposal that seeks $13 billion for housing vouchers for 
extremely low-income Veterans. These Veterans have what HUD calls 
``worst case housing needs,'' namely, incomes that do not exceed the 
Federal poverty line or 30 percent of the area median income; pay more 
than half of their income for rental costs or live in housing with 
faulty heating or plumbing; and receive no housing assistance.

Conclusion

    VA San Diego Healthcare System and HCHV are committed to ensuring 
Veterans have access to housing and services they require and deserve. 
We continue to improve access and services to meet the needs of 
Veterans. We appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today and 
the resources Congress provides VA to care for the Nation's Veterans. 
We are happy to respond to any questions you may have.
                                 ______
                                 

                  Prepared Statement of Leilani Hines
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                  Prepared Statement of David Estrella

    Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and 
members of the committee. Welcome to the County of San Diego. My name 
is David Estrella, and I am the Director of the County of San Diego's 
Health and Human Services Agency--Housing and Community Development 
Services. As such, I am also representing the Housing Authority of the 
County of San Diego.
    San Diego County is a proud military community. San Diego has the 
largest concentration of military and veteran presence in the world 
with approximately 120,000 active-duty personnel, and over 230,000 
veteran residents. The majority of our active-duty service members are 
split roughly evenly between the Navy and the Marine Corps, serving 
among our eight military bases in the County. The region has long been 
defined by its military presence, however the connection extends past 
active-duty service, resulting in military and veterans and their 
family members accounting for approximately 35 percent of the entire 
San Diego population.
    According to the Regional Task Force on Homelessness (RTFH), there 
are nearly 1,000 Veterans currently experiencing homelessness in the 
region. Over the last several years, the San Diego County Board of 
Supervisors (Board) has demonstrated its commitment to addressing the 
needs of all people experiencing and at-risk of homelessness. The Board 
adopted the County's Framework for Ending Homelessness in 2021 which 
created a unified strategic approach to support the coordination of 
homeless services and funding. On February 7, 2023, the Board formally 
prioritized Ending Veteran Homelessness in the region. The County of 
San Diego will join community partners and other local municipalities 
in developing and implementing a regional strategic action plan to 
achieve functional zero for Veteran homelessness within a 15-month 
period and maximize available resources to meet our Veteran's housing 
needs across the region.
    The introduction of the Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing (VASH) 
program in 2008 has been a key contribution to an over 55 percent 
reduction in Veterans experiencing homelessness nationwide since 2010 
(from 76,329 Veterans in 2010 to 33,136 Veterans).\1\ According to San 
Diego's regional 2022 Point-in-Time Count, while the number of persons 
experiencing homelessness saw an overall increase, Veteran homelessness 
in the region decreased by over 350 Veterans since the 2020 report, 
representing a 35 percent decrease over a 2-year period.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ San Diego Regional Task Force on Homelessness -Point in Time 
Count Results
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The County of San Diego (County) has been engaged and working with 
the US Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and other partners to 
address the challenges in the region. Some recent highlights of County 
efforts include:

      Enhancing outreach efforts to identify and connect 
potential VASH eligible Veterans with the local San Diego Veterans 
Affairs Medical Center (VAMC);

      Educating and engaging landlords and enhancing the 
County's Landlord Incentive Program (LIP) to reduce the amount of time 
between voucher issuance and lease-up in competitive rental market;

      Connecting Veterans with units by providing vacancy leads 
through our Landlord Liaison to the VA for housing navigation; and

      Streamlining administrative processes to increase 
efficiencies and reduce barriers for Veterans.

    While remarkable progress has been made, there is more to be done 
to help Veterans experiencing homelessness. According to the February 
2023 US Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Dashboard, 
there are 2,334 VASH vouchers allocated to three of the housing 
authorities in the San Diego region. While the Housing Authority of the 
County of San Diego, the San Diego Housing Commission, and the 
Oceanside Housing Authority have over 1,670 Veteran families leased in 
units and receiving VASH assistance, over 650 VASH vouchers remain not 
utilized. In order to get our Veterans off of the streets and into 
housing, additional outreach and referrals from the local VA are needed 
throughout the region.
    In 2022, the County received an average of less than 11 referrals 
per month. Recognizing the need to increase outreach capacity and 
referrals in the Housing Authority of the County of San Diego's 
jurisdiction, the San Diego VAMC has recently secured a contractor to 
administer a portion of the County's 300 unused VASH vouchers. So far 
in 2023, the County has received an average of 15 referrals per month. 
While we anticipate seeing the referral numbers to continue grow in 
2023, the current pace is not nearly enough to fully utilize the 
vouchers within the next 12 months and still leaves too many Veterans 
far too long without a place to call home.
    The VASH program has been one of the most instrumental resources 
available in helping Veterans overcome homelessness. Where the County 
has been successful in applying to HUD and bringing additional VASH 
vouchers to the region in the past, the inadequate referral rate has 
made the Housing Authority of the County of San Diego ineligible to 
apply for additional VASH vouchers (based on utilization rate 
thresholds). Not being able to apply for additional vouchers is a 
missed opportunity to help more Veterans move from the street and into 
permanent housing.
    Identifying ways to enhance the San Diego VAMC's capacity to 
identify and refer homeless Veterans to the housing authorities, such 
as expanding the local VA's current contract or entering an additional 
contract, is critical to fully utilizing the VASH resources available 
within San Diego County. Additional strategies that would help 
streamline access to VASH vouchers for eligible Veterans include:

      Expanding program-wide VASH waivers to align with 
flexibilities already allowed under the Emergency Housing Voucher and 
Stability Voucher programs, programs with populations like VASH 
recipients.

      Increasing the amount of VASH project-based vouchers, or 
PBVs, that the local VA will support per proposed housing development. 
Currently there is limit of 10 VASH PBVs per development or 10 percent 
of the requested PBV units; whichever is greater.

      Ensuring the San Diego VAMC and other partners provide 
adequate and equitable outreach/referrals throughout the region. The 
Housing Authority of the County of San Diego's jurisdiction includes 13 
of the 18 incorporated cities and all unincorporated areas.

      Encouraging HUD to release guidance on qualifying housing 
authorities to become Designated Service Providers to help the VA with 
outreach and case management for a portion of the VASH vouchers.

    Through a comprehensive, urgent, and collaborative approach, the 
County has committed to work in partnership with stakeholders including 
local municipalities, the Regional Task Force on Homelessness, the VA, 
and other community partners toward Ending Veteran Homelessness in San 
Diego.
    Thank you for your time and attention and for inviting me to share 
our experiences in helping Veterans overcome homelessness. I welcome 
any questions that you may have.
                                 ______
                                 

                 Prepared Statement of Matthew Wechter

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and distinguished members 
of the Committee: On behalf of the County of San Diego Department of 
Public Defender, our Chief Deputies, and the members of our office, 
thank you for inviting me to testify on the issue of Veteran 
Homelessness.
    Thank you for inviting me to the hearing on this very important 
topic. Since my first years as an attorney in this office, it has been 
clear to me the strong commitment that the San Diego Public Defender - 
and the greater County of San Diego community - has to serving our 
homeless veteran population. Veteran issues are always at the forefront 
of our concerns; our court has a Veteran Court, we have the new 
Community Care Coordination for Veterans program, and are always trying 
to find ways to support our veteran community - housed or unhoused.
    Let's be clear - not all veterans are unhoused, and not all 
unhoused individuals are veterans; but veteran homelessness is an 
unacceptable combination phenomenon. Of all our various populations 
that do not have adequate shelter, veterans should not be counted among 
them. All levels of government have worked hard over the past several 
years, and made great strides to reduce the number of unhoused 
veterans; they should be applauded for their amazing efforts and 
results in this area.
    With several military facilities within our borders, San Diego 
County is a heavily veteran-focused community that still has work to 
do. That being said, San Diego CAN get to Functional Zero - but only if 
we remove barriers to their success. I will focus my written comments 
on how we can make that happen through removing legal barriers.

Addressing Legal Issues is Paramount to Exit the Cycle of Veteran 
Homelessness

    Two examples of this scenario may be illustrative.

    Example 1: A veteran is cited for a minor quality of life offense, 
and doesn't show up to court (as is often the case) because they are 
more concerned with their next meal or their safety on the streets than 
keeping track of the court citation. As a result of their non-
appearance, a warrant is issued for their arrest. That warrant may 
result in them being denied certain benefits, or housing, they may face 
barriers to some treatment programs that will not allow entry, or they 
may refrain from reporting themselves as a victim of a crime because 
they are frightened of being arrested. In either situation, that 
veteran is more likely to stay on the streets for years in the cycle.

    Example 2: A veteran is cited for the same offense, but shows up to 
court. They plead or are found guilty, and are assessed fines and fees 
and put on probation. Through probation, or on their own, they engage 
in substance use or mental health treatment, or work with a housing 
provider for a voucher. At the end of working with that case manager, 
they are ready to graduate and get into housing. However, the fines and 
fees have gone to collections, and they owe several thousands of 
dollars in fines/fees, the housing is denied, and they fall back into 
homelessness.
    In both of those examples, without addressing the legal issues that 
are the collateral consequences of being unhoused, the cycle of 
homelessness will continue. What can be done?

Origins of Homeless Court in San Diego - Stand Down

    In 1988, the first Veteran Stand Down event was held in San Diego 
County. Stand Down events are one-stop-shops, where those veterans and 
their families that are homeless, or at-risk of homelessness can come 
and engage with community services. In San Diego, that event is a 3-day 
event, formerly at the San Diego High School field, where the veterans 
can stay for the duration of the event onsite, bunking with other 
veterans in a safe, secure and welcoming environment. Volunteers come 
from all aspects of the community - food service, clothing, medical, 
dental, jobs, substance use help, musical entertainment, haircuts, and 
so much more.
    One of our retired Public Defenders was among those volunteers - 
Steve Binder. He was part of an exit survey of the veterans at the 1988 
event; the most requested item for help listed was ``legal help''. In 
response to that survey, Mr. Binder went to the Superior Court and 
asked that the court participate in future events. The court's initial 
- and understandable - response was, ``we are open 9-5 Monday through 
Friday, have them come down and we will help.'' Mr. Binder's response, 
in 1989, was ahead of its time; he and the members of the Stand Down 
volunteer team told the court, ``Your Honor, with all due respect, that 
isn't good enough. We need to serve and meet these veterans where they 
are.'' And the Court listened. So, in 1989, the Public Defender, the 
Superior Court, the City and District Attorney, all came to the Stand 
Down event to do just that. Based on the participation and engagement 
of the veterans with the multitude of services provided to them, minor 
quality of life offenses \1\, fines, and fees that had been hanging 
over the heads of these veterans were pulled from the courtrooms to the 
Stand Down ``courtroom'' where the judge appeared and lifted the weight 
and burden of these cases off their shoulders.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The cases handled at Stand Down/Homeless Court are of the minor 
variety - infractions and minor misdemeanor cases. These may be a minor 
nuisance to any one of us, but getting to court across town, on time, 
and/or a $100 fine for an unhoused individual who is attempting to find 
food for their next meal or find shelter from the cold can prove to be 
an insurmountable barrier.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    These cases being lifted are not insignificant. Many times a minor 
unpaid traffic infraction can result in a court ``hold'' on someone's 
Driver's License, or be referred to collections and cause a negative 
report on a credit report. An outstanding warrant can prevent someone 
from accessing the full benefits or receiving housing for which they 
may be entitled. The Homeless Court portion of Stand Down successfully 
provides opportunities for veterans experiencing homelessness, mental 
health issues, and substance abuse to receive services to address their 
needs. With the exception of COVID, the Public Defender and the rest of 
the justice partners have been there almost every year since 1989, rain 
or shine, to continue that tradition. Homeless Court @ StandDown was 
born.

Homeless Court and Stand Down Today

    In 2001, through a grant, the monthly Homeless Court Program, 
similar to its current form, was born. Building off the model of the 
Stand Down event, individuals who are homeless or at risk of 
homelessness, can participate with an approved Homeless Court Program 
community provider (including the VA, and some others testifying on 
this panel), be referred to us, and their minor infraction and 
misdemeanor cases can be dismissed and/or fines and fees satisfied. The 
model is one of ``recognition'' of the work someone is doing on 
themselves to identify the root causes of their homelessness and 
justice-involvement, addressing it through engagement in services, and 
the Court merely getting out of the way of their positive trajectory.
    Homeless Court @ Stand Down and the standard Monthly Homeless Court 
Program are alive and even stronger today. The American Bar Association 
Commission on Homelessness and Poverty \2\ lists the Homeless Court 
Program as one of its national initiatives, providing technical 
assistance to jurisdictions across the country to create or improve 
their Homeless Court Programs with San Diego as the gold standard. The 
California Chief Justice's Workgroup on Homelessness Report listed 
creation of more Homeless Courts as one of the recommendations to the 
Chief Justice \3\. We are in the planning stages now, with Veteran's 
Village of San Diego, to put on the 2023 Stand Down event in late July.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_interest/
homelessness_poverty/initiatives/homeless-courts/about-homeless-courts/
    \3\ https://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/hwg_work-group-report.pdf 
(Recommendation 2.1)

Innovation in the HCP Model - Stand Down as a Model for the San Diego 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homeless Court Pop-up Resource Fair

    In the same way the Stand Down Homeless Court paved the way for the 
monthly Homeless Court Program accessible to veteran and non-veteran 
alike, in 2021 the Public Defender, City Attorney, District Attorney, 
DMV, County Office of Homeless Solutions and Equitable Communities, and 
Superior Court decided to go even further in adoption of the Stand Down 
model to all unhoused individuals. On a monthly basis, the above 
partners and several hyper-local community-based providers join 
together in a geographic location(s) where there is demonstrated need 
for these services. The events have been widely popular, and many 
communities have asked for the HCP Pop-up Resource Fair to be held in 
their community.
    At the Pop-up, veterans (similar to the Stand Down model) and non-
veterans alike can walk up to engage in resources, including benefits, 
medical, showers, substance use. In exchange for that engagement, the 
Homeless Court is there to immediately clear the cases holding up their 
license, and clear outstanding warrants that may prevent them from 
accessing benefits or housing. We can do this immediate relief now as a 
result of the forced innovation to keep the court lights on during 
COVID. With a judge and clerk on call at the courthouse, relief can be 
granted with a click of a button.
    If the clients have other non-immediate barriers, they are referred 
to one of our approved Homeless Court Network Providers \4\ to further 
work on themselves and go through the traditional Monthly Homeless 
Court Program to satisfy the remainder of the cases/fees.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ http://homelesscourtprogram.org / http://bit.ly/sdhcp

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homeless Court for Veterans nationwide

    Stand Down may have some of its initial origins in San Diego, but 
they occur throughout the country in communities with a high veteran 
population. Several Federal agencies also support Stand Down events 
through grants and other supportive work.\5\, \6\ Stand Down 
events are an important ``surge'' to provide community support in a big 
way, but these events are traditionally one time per year, and have 
varying degrees of court/legal barrier relief; some may include civil 
legal aid, or basic post-conviction consultation, but no meaningful 
active case assistance. Without relief of legal issues, the cycle of 
homelessness for veterans will continue.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ https://www.va.gov/homeless/events.asp
    \6\ https://www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/programs/
StandDown#:?:text=Stand %20Downs %20(SD) %20are %20typically,VA 
%20Social %20Security %20benefits %20counseling.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion

    San Diego has been a leader in addressing the legal needs of its 
veterans for the past 30 years - both in the San Diego County community 
and beyond in consulting with other jurisdictions to improve their 
offerings. By supporting more regular monthly Homeless Courts and Stand 
Down/Pop-up style events that clearly incorporate legal relief, where 
the veterans need it most, we can further stem the tide of veteran 
homelessness and work toward veteran Functional Zero.
                                 ______
                                 

                   Prepared Statement of Greg Anglea

Introduction

    Today, we can honestly say that ending Veteran homelessness is 
possible. We can say that empirically, because as a nation since 2010 
we have decreased Veteran homelessness more than 55 percent. This 
progress included an 11 percent decrease between 2020 and 2022, 
demonstrating that even among the challenges of pandemic, ending 
Veteran homelessness is possible.

    Two factors are primarily responsible for these successes:

        1) Increased investment from the Federal Government in housing 
        solutions and supportive services for Veterans experiencing and 
        at-risk of experiencing homelessness

        2) Strong coordination and partnership within the Federal 
        Government (especially the VA & HUD), with State and local 
        government at all levels, community-based organizations, 
        Veterans groups, business leaders, philanthropy, and faith 
        communities.

    San Diego County has exemplified the positive outcomes of these 
factors, realizing a more 30 percent decrease in Veteran homelessness 
over the past four years. Recent and ongoing commitments from our 
congressional Representatives, the County of San Diego, the San Diego 
Regional Taskforce on Homelessness, and a large network of Veteran-
serving community-based organizations will build on these strengths and 
drive San Diego toward ending Veteran homelessness.
    Despite these strengths and the positive progress we have realized, 
significant challenges remain. Veterans need additional Congressional 
support to end Veteran homelessness in San Diego, and to support 
similar efforts in communities throughout the United States.

    Interfaith Community Services' Role in Ending Veteran Homelessness
    Interfaith Community Services (Interfaith) operates more than 75 
diverse but complimentary programs addressing poverty, inequities, and 
homelessness throughout San Diego County, with an emphasis on North San 
Diego County. Last year we provided services to 19,175 people, 
including 786 Veterans.

    Interfaith operates the following programs exclusively for 
Veterans:

      Post-Hospitalization Recuperative Care for Veterans

                o 16-bed contract with VA for Veterans with VA 
                Healthcare Benefits who are discharging from local 
                hospitals (including VA Medical Center), and in need of 
                both housing and medical respite care

      VA Grant Per Diem Transitional Housing for Veterans

                o 64-beds of community-based Service Intensive 
                Transitional Housing as well as Bridge Housing Grant 
                Per Diem VA-funded Transitional Housing

      Equity Target Populations Fund Employment Training 
Program for Veterans

                o State California Employment Development Department 
                (via Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act 
                Governor's Discretionary funds) grant to provide 
                workforce training for Veterans

      Veterans Housing Stability

                o Privately funded case management and homeless 
                prevention rental assistance for Veterans at-risk of 
                homelessness

      Veterans Behavioral Health

                o Privately funded behavioral health clinicians to 
                address Veteran mental health needs pre/post entry into 
                existing Interfaith Veterans programs

    Strengths, Challenges, and Opportunities for congressional Action

    1) VA Grant Per Diem (GPD) Transitional Housing
    Nationwide, GPD programs housed more than 10,000 Veterans in 2022, 
with the VA reporting that GPD providers are demonstrating some of the 
highest performance outcomes in GPD history.

    This is a direct result of the two primary factors cited above:

        1) Increased investment by the Federal Government in Veterans 
        in the GPD program

        2) Strong partnership and coordination between government, GPD 
        service providers, and key community stakeholders

    The increased investment in Veterans via GPD was the result of 
COVID public health regulations which will sunset May 11, 2023. This 
will reduce the maximum per diem rate for a GPD provider from $152.73 
to just $64.52. In high-cost communities like San Diego, $64.52 per bed 
night does not support the cost of emergency shelter, and it certainly 
will not cover the cost of proven effective and critically needed, 
service-intensive GPD Transitional Housing programs serving the complex 
needs of Veterans experiencing homelessness.
    To demonstrate the severity of these challenges, we would like to 
share the following stories of Veterans Interfaith has been able to 
effectively serve this past year as a result of increased GPD 
reimbursement rates (names have been changed):

        Rick Jones, USMC Vietnam Veteran. Mr. Jones was living in his 
        car when coming to Interfaith, after his wife died from an 
        accident and his daughter died in that same week from a heart 
        attack. He was drinking alcohol daily, and attempted suicide 
        before coming to the GPD program. In GPD he received support 
        from case management, participated in an active recovery group, 
        and engaged in behavioral health counseling. He stabilized his 
        mental health, was taken off the suicide prevention list, and 
        stopped drinking alcohol daily. He completed steps to ensure 
        his financial stability, and was able to save $9,000 while in 
        the program.

        Tim Martin, Navy Veteran. Mr. Martin came to Interfaith about 
        being attacked while sleeping in a park. He has a Traumatic 
        Brain Injury, memory problems, and substance use disorder. He 
        had problems budgeting his money, using appropriate social 
        skills, and remembering his appointments. While at Interfaith's 
        GPD program he was able to attend his doctor appointments, 
        learn budgeting skills in order to be able to pay his rent, and 
        improve his social skills. While at the program he attended 
        case management, active recovery group, and life skills. Mr. 
        Martin has displayed a need for continued case management, so 
        Interfaith has helped him apply and gain acceptance into the 
        HUD-VASH program. He recently passed an interview for an 
        apartment application and will be moving in soon to his new 
        home.

        Vanessa Smith, Army Veteran. Ms. Smith has a long history of 
        abuse and trauma from people close to her, including her 
        family. She suffers from physical, mental health, and substance 
        abuse related issues. Interfaith's GPD has provided a safe 
        haven for Ms. Smith to heal and recover. She entered without 
        housing, traumatized, unemployed, and with significant debt. 
        Through case management support, therapy, and Veterans 
        Treatment Court, Ms. Smith has completed her education, found 
        stable employment, paid off her debt, and learned to use the 
        supportive resources to establish her independence.

    Dignified and safe housing which provides professional, Veteran-
centered support services to address trauma, physical problems, mental 
health, and addiction, cannot be provided for $64.52 per day in a 
community like San Diego.

    The success of more than 10,000 Veterans served throughout our 
Nation in 2022 in the GPD program, supported by a funding reimbursement 
rate commensurate with the actual cost of providing these services, 
have proven that we have the resources and strategies to overcome the 
most challenging of situations for Veterans who have served our 
country.

    Opportunity for congressional Action: As a GPD provider facing the 
funding cliff May 12, 2023 will bring, we emphatically support and 
advocate for passage of H.R. 491 - Return Home to Housing Act, which 
would increase the maximum rate of per diem payments provided by the 
VA.

    2) Homeless Prevention
    The VA's Supportive Services for Veteran Families provides a small 
amount of homeless prevention rental assistance, which in practice does 
not meet community need. Veterans and Veteran families proactively 
reach out to providers like Interfaith seeking to maintain their 
housing, but we often do not have the resources to prevent them from 
becoming homeless.
    In San Diego County the Regional Taskforce on the Homelessness 
Homeless Management Information System reports that over a 12-month 
period, for every 10 persons who overcome homelessness 13 people became 
homeless for the first time. We cannot end Veteran homelessness in San 
Diego or in other communities unless we can do a better job of 
preventing more Veterans from becoming homeless in the first place. 
Interfaith currently addresses this need through limited amounts of 
donations from foundations, individual donors, and faith communities. 
That resource cannot scale up to meet societal need among Veterans. 
Additional Federal investment is needed.

    Opportunity for congressional Action: Support increased homeless 
prevention rental assistance funding, which will leverage existing VA 
investments, and reduce longer-term need for homeless-focused housing 
and service interventions.

    3) Supportive Housing for Medically Fragile Veterans
    The VA's Healthcare for Homeless Veterans (HCHV) program supports 
critical functions nationwide for medically fragile Veterans:

      Outreach Services

      Case Management Services

      Contract Residential Service Programs

    Interfaith currently operates a 32-bed post-hospitalization 
Recuperative Care program, which includes a 16-bed HCHV contract for 
Veterans being discharged from local hospitals. Interfaith has 
leveraged the success of this program to secure a $9MM investment from 
the County of San Diego and $5MM of private donations to purchase and 
renovate former motel site in Escondido, CA which will open in May 2023 
as the 106-bed Abraham & Lillian Turk Recuperative Care Center.
    Interfaith programs serving medically fragile, often older 
Veterans, also heavily refer to and utilize local CalVets Veteran Homes 
in San Diego (Chula Vista) and Barstow, which provide an array of long-
term supportive housing options, including memory care and assisted 
living.
    HUD-VASH provides critically needed permanent supportive housing, 
though there are a growing number of Veterans who require greater 
levels of support than most stand-alone, community-based, HUD-VASH 
housing provides. Additionally, there are not enough safe, dignified 
housing units locally for Veterans who have secured a HUD-VASH voucher.

    Opportunity for congressional Action:

      Explore additional HCHV opportunities to leverage growing 
intersection between health and homelessness to increase Contracted 
Residential Services Programs for medically fragile Veterans, also 
strengthening Outreach Services to better utilize existing VA and 
civilian resources which can benefit medically fragile Veterans

      Support the creation of additional Veteran Homes for 
older and/or medically fragile Veterans, building off the success of 
CalVets Veterans Homes

      Provide longer term substance use disorder treatment 
programs geared toward Veterans

    Conclusion

    The Federal Government and its partners throughout the Nation have 
proven that ending Veteran homelessness is not only possible, but in 
communities like San Diego it is well within our grasp in the months 
and years ahead. Congress has the opportunity to build on the successes 
of the VA GPD program, Homeless Prevention, and Healthcare for Homeless 
Veterans. Doing so will support an end to Veteran Homelessness not just 
in San Diego County, but in communities throughout the United States.

    I will close with words from a Veteran Interfaith has had the honor 
of serving, and who has found success through both the GPD program and 
Veterans Treatment Court:

        When I took off my uniform, I believed that my service had 
        ended. The way that it ended is something that I have struggled 
        with every day since. I remained in isolation believing my 
        service had been dishonorable. I had not been able to reconcile 
        my sense of duty and love for my country with this assumption. 
        What I know now is that although I have taken off my uniform my 
        service has not ended. What I will not do is take for granted 
        those who have fallen and been lost to the wars within by 
        giving up or retreating in isolation. I will honor them by 
        continuing to serve to the best of my ability and all of the 
        capacities for which I am most suited.

        What I will not do is fall prey to the belief that I can find 
        an easy way or quick fix. I will not turn to any substance or 
        any other person to fill empty spaces within. I will not allow 
        a bad day accumulate into bad weeks or months or years. I will 
        not allow one person's disapproval or rejection of me convince 
        me that it is a representation of the entire world viewpoint of 
        me. I will not let one mistake represent total failure. I will 
        not let one bad mood trick me into relapse. I will show myself 
        grace and fill empty space with routine, consistency and 
        accountability. I will soldier on.

        Going back to school, getting a degree in criminal justice, 
        starting as a paralegal, and allowing myself to find where I 
        can be most effective in ensuring that no one is ever left 
        behind; that is my path.

    Thank you for your time today, for inviting Interfaith to share our 
experiences and expertise helping Veterans and Veteran families 
overcome homelessness. We look forward to and offer anything that 
Interfaith Community Services can do to help this committee in your 
work.
                                 ______
                                 

                  Prepared Statement of Hanan Scrapper

      Good afternoon to the assembled members of this 
distinguished Committee and thank you to Congressman Levin for the kind 
invitation.

      I'm Hanan Scrapper, Regional Director for PATH San Diego, 
and it is my great honor to be here on behalf our organization.

      PATH is one of the most impactful homeless service 
providers in California, serving over 16 percent of the Golden State's 
unhoused population.

      I supervise many programs targeting Veterans experiencing 
homelessness, including grant per diem, or GPD; Veterans Affairs 
Supportive Housing, or HUD VASH; Supportive Services for Veterans 
Families, or SSVF; and the Homeless Veterans' Reintegration Program, or 
HVRP. We also operate a Veterans Justice Re-entry program funded 
through the County. Where we pick up each Veteran upon their release 
from custody and ensure they have immediate housing placement while 
providing the supportive services geared toward preventing re-entry.

      At any given time, we have a little over 400 Veterans 
enrolled in our programs, with an average age of 50.

      Veterans make up about 9 percent of our unsheltered and 7 
percent of the sheltered population in the San Diego region. On 
average, there are about 900 individuals who are Veterans that 
experience homelessness each month.

      As a community we house about 80 Veterans a month with an 
average inflow of 130. To achieve functional zero, we need to house 
100+ Veterans each month.

      San Diego has a strong collaboration with the VA, CoC, 
Veteran service providers and our public housing authorities, which has 
helped us in reducing Veteran homelessness by 30 percent as shown in 
the 2022 Point In Time Count data.

      However, the high cost of housing in our region makes it 
challenging for us to find viable affordable housing for our Veteran 
families. The average income for Veterans in our programs is $1,654 per 
a month and the average cost of a 1 bedroom in San Diego is $2,295. 
Based on these numbers we're finding Veterans to be rent burdened which 
is proven to place these households at high risk of eviction and 
financial instability.

      San Diego is one of the pilot communities to launch the 
Shallow Subsidy program through SSVF. Shallow Subsidy expands housing 
options and increases the Veteran households' ability to meet other 
costly living expenses while receiving a fixed rate of rental 
assistance.

      This program has been a tremendous help in bridging the 
gap of housing affordability for Veterans who meet the eligibility to 
receive the assistance. This also shows that SSVF is serving Veterans 
with high needs who may not be eligibility for HUD-VASH. It would be 
beneficial to consider a multidisciplinary team for SSVF that is geared 
toward meeting the needs of Veterans served in the program.

      We're also very excited to be a grantee for the HUD-VASH 
program in partnership with the VA and San Diego County. As the lead 
street outreach provider for the City and County with nearly 70 staff 
deployed across the region, our goal is to connect every Veteran we 
encounter on the streets to a permanent housing intervention.

      I wanted to share a Veteran family's story to demonstrate 
the level of collaboration that was needed to end their homelessness. I 
did change the names in this story to protect their identities.
      Veteran Angela was experiencing homelessness when she 
connected with our SSVF program. Angela had an 8-person household and 
was caring for two elderly members of the household. Due to their 
situation the household was spread across the County, some were in 
their vehicles and others were couch surfing.

      Once Angela and her family were enrolled in our SSVF 
program, we were able to place them in a hotel with emergency housing 
assistance. During this process, we connected them to HUD-VASH.

      Our housing specialist located permanent housing through 
SSVF and provided application fees, double security deposits and 5 
months of rental subsidy until their HUD-VASH voucher took over the 
rental payments. The Veteran family is now happy and stably housed.

      Sadly, we know that not every Veteran household's story 
ends this way. We need to treat Veteran homelessness as a humanitarian 
crisis, which is why it is imperative that we maintain many of the 
waivers that were applied during the COVID-19 pandemic.

      Some of the pandemic era waivers we found to be helpful 
are: expanding the length of rental assistance beyond nine months for 
SSVF, expanding eligibility for homeless prevention assistance and 
shallow subsidy, and increasing providers' flexibility to use hotels 
for GPD programs for Veterans who may be successful in non-congregate 
settings.

      PATH and our fellow providers are there as a final safety 
net when all other systems and policies fail.

      We appreciate the dedication of this Committee and this 
Congress to helping us increase the options available to us to serve 
our country's Veterans with dignity.

      It was a great honor to be here today to share our 
experiences with operating various Veteran programs and some 
suggestions on how to improve its efficacy moving forward.

      Achieving functional zero for Veteran homelessness is 
possible, but we can only do this together.

      Thank you.
                                 ______
                                 

                  Prepared Statement of Dustin Potash

      Good Afternoon to the assembled members of this 
distinguished Committee. It is my great honor to be here on behalf of 
ADJOIN.

      I want to specifically thank Congressman Levin for 
inviting me here today and for his persistent pursuit to find solutions 
to end Veteran homelessness.

      My name is Dr. Dustin Potash and I have the honor of 
serving as the Veterans Director for ADJOIN.

      ADJOIN is one of the most impactful veteran homeless 
service providers in San Diego and Imperial County, serving over 4,000 
homeless veterans since its inception in 2011.

      I supervise several programs that focus on Veterans 
experiencing homelessness, including Veterans Affairs Supportive 
Housing, or HUD VASH; Supportive Services for Veterans Families, or 
SSVF; and the Veterans Affairs Shallow Subsidy Program; and I've been 
working with unhoused Veterans for a large portion of my career.

      The most significant point that I can share with you 
today is that San Diego is making great advances in reducing Veteran 
homelessness through' the use of SSVF and Shallow Subsidy.

      This remarkable progress has come thanks to a meaningful 
focus and investment from Congress, our Federal partners, strong 
collaboration at the local level, and our dedication to the Housing 
First model.

      This model is especially vital to our Veterans, who may 
have greater substance use and mental health needs due to the 
inherently difficult, and potentially traumatic, nature of their 
military experiences.

      With nearly 12 years of work in this sector, our 
organization is built upon the Housing First model, ensuring the goal 
of low barriers to entry for those in need.

      ADJOIN is a firm believer in this approach and is fully 
committed to this goal

      Greater adherence to the Housing First model in all SSVF 
programs across the nation can help to replicate San Diego's success in 
reducing Veteran homelessness.

      Most of our participants frequently have high barrier 
obstacles that make it harder for them to successfully get housed. We 
would encourage you to continue the landlord incentive program so that 
providers can continue to offer a greater variety of options to this 
important population.

      ADJOIN and our fellow grantees are here as a final line 
of defense when all other systems and policies fail.

      In order to demonstrate the effectiveness of this 
approach and show how these programs are working in real life, I'd like 
to share a client story; I did change the names in this story to 
protect identities.

      Emily is an Air Force veteran who received an honorable 
discharge. When she came into the program, she was living in an 
abandoned RV that had no running water or electricity.

      She had been asked to leave the RV as it was just parked 
on someone's property and Emily did not pay rent to live there.

      Emily was a registered nurse but at the time she came 
into the program, her nursing license was suspended.

      Emily had a service connection compensation of $1100.00 
per month from the VA. At the time of enrollment, Emily's money was 
spent paying for drug testing as required by the licensing board as 
part of her efforts to reinstate her license.

      Most of the time Emily was left with no money for other 
needs. Emily was in high crisis mode when she reached out to be 
enrolled in the SSVF program and it was often difficult to engage with 
her.

      Emily was constantly stressed due to not having a place 
to live and no money to cover her most basic needs.

      Emily was estranged from friends and family members due 
to her constantly asking them for money to sustain her needs.

      With the assistance of a SSVF housing coordinator, Emily 
found a unit that she liked and we helped move her in.

      Emily continued to work on completing all requirements 
with the licensing board and after being housed, she was able to apply 
for Cal-Fresh assistance and was approved.

      With the assistance of Adjoin with rent payment and 
utilities, Emily was able to concentrate on getting her nursing license 
reinstated.

      Emily completed all requirements, and her license was 
reinstated in January 2022. Emily was hired as a nurse and Adjoin 
assisted with her nurse uniforms and shoes.

      Emily is now a fulltime nurse at a local hospital, making 
$36 an hour.

      Emily has since moved into our Shallow Subsidy program 
where she has been very successful.

      We appreciate the dedication of this Committee and this 
Congress to helping us increase the options available to us to serve 
our country's Veterans with dignity in the hopes of replicating success 
stories like Emily.

      I do believe however, that there is still a gap in our 
system when it comes to a service member transitioning from the 
military into civilian life.

      When talking to many of our clients, many of them state 
that they were rushed out of the military with no plan in place which 
played a role in them becoming homeless.

      Since my separation from the military, I know this 
Committee and Congress has implemented the Transition Assistance 
Program to help servicemembers with resources, classes, and training 
but I believe it needs to go a step further.

      It is my belief that service members should already have 
a job, permanent housing, and VA disability income (if applicable) all 
secured before leaving the military.

      I don't know who that responsibility falls on to; the 
military or the community?

      One possible solution is to allow providers and grantees 
to be part of the transition process on military installations.

      I believe with this type of collaboration it would 
drastically reduce the number of homeless veterans not just in San 
Diego County, but nationwide.

      The rental rates here in San Diego are high and the 
available housing is low which is another barrier for our clients.

      A possible solution would be to allow SSVF and Shallow 
Subsidy providers to take over run down hotels and motels in undesired 
parts of the county and bring in development dollars to turn them into 
permanent housing units.

      Case Management and wrap-around services would be 
available onsite.

      It was a great honor to be here today to share our 
experiences with the SSVF and Shallow Subsidy programs and some 
suggestions on how to improve its efficacy moving forward.

      Achieving functional zero for Veteran homelessness is 
possible, but we can only do this together and with out of the box 
thinking.

      I look forward to answering your questions.

      Thank you.
                                 ______
                                 

                    Prepared Statement of Sean Spear
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                        Statement for the Record

                              ----------                              

           Prepared Statement of San Diego Housing Commission
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                                 [all]