[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                   THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS: PART III

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, 
                       SECURITY, AND ENFORCEMENT

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                         TUESDAY, MAY 23, 2023

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-22

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]         


               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
               
                              __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
52-461                     WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
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                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

DARRELL ISSA, California             JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking 
KEN BUCK, Colorado                       Member
MATT GAETZ, Florida                  ZOE LOFGREN, California
MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana              SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
TOM McCLINTOCK, California           HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., 
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin                   Georgia
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              ADAM SCHIFF, California
CHIP ROY, Texas                      DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina           ERIC SWALWELL, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             TED LIEU, California
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  J. LUIS CORREA, California
BEN CLINE, Virginia                  MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            LUCY McBATH, Georgia
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
KEVIN KILEY, California              DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming             CORI BUSH, Missouri
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               GLENN IVEY, Maryland
LAUREL LEE, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
                                 ------                                

            SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY,
                            AND ENFORCEMENT

                   TOM McCLINTOCK, California, Chair

KEN BUCK, Colorado                   PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington, 
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                      Ranking Member
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin               ZOE LOFGREN, California
CHIP ROY, Texas                      J. LUIS CORREA, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island
WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   ERIC SWALWELL, California

               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
          AMY RUTKIN, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                         Tuesday, May 23, 2023

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on 
  Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State 
  of California..................................................     1
The Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee 
  on Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the 
  State of Washington............................................     3
The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary 
  from the State of Ohio.........................................     5
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on 
  the Judiciary from the State of New York.......................     6

                               WITNESSES

Chief Rodney Scott, Distinguished Senior Fellow for Border 
  Security, Texas Public Policy Foundation
  Oral Testimony.................................................     9
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    12
Mark Hetfield, CEO, HIAS
  Oral Testimony.................................................    15
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    17
Teresa Kenny, Supervisor, Town of Orangetown, New York
  Oral Testimony.................................................    32
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    35
Tammy Nobles, Realtor, Norfolk, Virginia
  Oral Testimony.................................................    42
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    44

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on 
  Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement are listed 
  below..........................................................    72

Slides showing Tweets from different House Republicans, submitted 
  by the Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of New York, for the 
  record
An article entitled, ``What Everyone--Except the U.S.--Has 
  Learned About Immigration. Washington remains divided over 
  allowing more foreign workers while global rivals lower 
  barriers to ease persistent labor shortages,'' May 16, 2023, 
  Wall Street Journal, submitted by the Honorable J. Luis Correa, 
  a Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, 
  Security, and Enforcement from the State of California, for the 
  record
Materials submitted by the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking 
  Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, 
  and Enforcement from the State of Washington, for the record
    Statement from the Center for Gender & Refugee Studies (CGRS)
    Statement from the Church World Service (CWS)
    Statement from the National Immigration Forum
Materials submitted by the Honorable Andy Biggs, a Member of the 
  Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
  Enforcement from the State of Arizona, for the record
    An article entitled, ``Biden's back door bid to open the door 
        to legalize migrants,'' Apr. 24, 2023, The New York Times
    An article entitled, ``Border crossings down, but many 
        migrants released to U.S. to ease crowding,'' May 19, 
        2023, Washington Post
    An article entitled, ``WATCH: Human Smuggler Drops Preschool-
        Age Child Over California Border Wall,'' May 23, 2023, 
        Breitbart
    An article entitled, ``WATCH: Georgia Democrat Slams Party 
        for Favoring Migrants Over Americans,'' May 23, 2023, 
        Breitbart
Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member 
  of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
  Enforcement from the State of Texas, for the record
    An article entitled, ``Biden admin to send 1,500 troops to 
        southern border for support roles ahead of expected 
        migrant surge,'' May, 2, 2023, CNN
    Statement from the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of 
        the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
        Enforcement from the State of Texas
An email regarding HHS Case File, submitted by the Honorable 
  Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on 
  Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State 
  of Washington, for the record

                                APPENDIX

An article entitled, ``How the Biden Administration Plans to Deal 
  With the Looming Border Crisis,'' May 10, 2023, TIME, submitted 
  by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of the 
  Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
  Enforcement from the State of Texas, for the record

                 QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES FOR THE RECORD

Questions for Chief Rodney Scott, submitted by the Honorable Tom 
  McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, 
  Security, and Enforcement from the State of California, for the 
  record
Response from Chief Rodney Scott to the questions submitted by 
  the Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on 
  Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State 
  of California, for the record

 
                   THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS: PART III

                              ----------                              


                         Tuesday, May 23, 2023

                        House of Representatives

            Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,

                            and Enforcement

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:04 a.m., in 
Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Tom McClintock 
[Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Members present: Representatives McClintock, Jordan, Buck, 
Biggs, Tiffany, Roy, Van Drew, Nehls, Moore, Hunt, Jayapal, 
Nadler, Correa, Jackson Lee, Ross, and Swalwell.
    Also present: Representative Lawler.
    Mr. McClintock. The Immigration Subcommittee of the House 
Judiciary Committee will come to order. A quorum is present. 
The Chair asks unanimous consent that Mr. Lawler of New York be 
seated on the Subcommittee for the Hearing. Is there any 
objection?
    Hearing none, Mr. Lawler, welcome to this Subcommittee.
    The Immigration Subcommittee meets today to hear testimony 
on the effect of the ongoing border crisis that began on 
Inauguration Day of 2021.
    We have four witnesses with us today who are going to 
testify to the effects that this is having on the social 
services of our cities as well as the tragedies that it is 
causing for our citizens.
    With that we will begin with--our first witness is Chief 
Rodney Scott, formerly the Chief of the Border Patrol of the 
United States.
    Mr. Scott, we welcome you to the hearing today and 
recognize you.
    Oh, I am sorry, we are going to do--start with--see that is 
what happens when I go script-less. I will actually begin with 
opening statements, and I will begin with myself.
    When President Biden canceled construction of the border 
wall and ordered ICE not to enforce court-ordered deportations, 
we have seen 2.1 million illegal immigrants unlawfully admitted 
to the United States by this administration. That is a 
population larger than the entire State of Nebraska.
    While that has been going on an additional 1.5 million 
known got-aways have entered while the Border Patrol has been 
overwhelmed. That is in additional illegal population larger 
than the State of Hawaii. Combined that is 3.6 million illegal 
migrants admitted to our country. That is larger than the 
population of 20 of our States. That is just in 28 months.
    The danger of this policy should be self-evident. When the 
President surrendered unconditionally to the Taliban and 
abandoned Bagram Air Base in the middle of the night, he 
released 5,000 of the most dangerous terrorists on the planet 
who were detained there. We know where one went. Ten days later 
he went to Abbey Gate at Kabul Airport and detonated the bomb 
that killed 13 U.S. Marines. We know that nearly 200 
individuals on the Terrorist Watchlist were apprehended by the 
Border Patrol in 2022 and 2023, compared to just 14 in all four 
years of the Trump Administration combined. What we don't know 
is how many more are among the 1.5 million known got-aways.
    Now, HHS Secretary Xavier Becerra told his staff that he 
demanded a rapid release of illegal migrants into the country. 
He compared it to an assembly line, and he warned subordinates 
that if they didn't move faster, he would find others who 
would. The lack of any serious vetting of those entering our 
country is producing tragic results for families like that of 
Kayla Hamilton whose grieving mother we will hear from today. 
In her case a 17-year-old MS-13 gang member was released into 
the United States as an unaccompanied alien child. Kayla 
Hamilton is dead as a result.
    Police investigating her murder noticed her assailant had 
gang tattoos. One call to El Salvadoran authorities confirmed 
he was a known MS-13 gang member, something Federal officials 
never bothered to ask as they recklessly allowed him to enter 
the United States.
    Drug trafficking now produces an average of 200 fentanyl 
deaths in the United States every day, the equivalent of a 
passenger jet crashing every day. Just a few days of such 
carnage would ground every aircraft in America.
    We are told that human trafficking is now becoming an even 
more profitable business to the cartels than drugs. Illegal 
migrants arrive deeply in debt to the cartels whose violent 
gangs are proliferating in our cities to enforce these debts. 
In places like Tulare County, California, just outside of my 
district, we are starting to see cartel executions of entire 
families including in this case a mom shot through the head as 
she shielded her baby.
    Every Border Patrol officer says the same thing: This is no 
longer a border problem. If it hasn't already come to your 
community, it soon will. I am afraid this culminate either in a 
terrorist attack by elements that have come in through our 
border or the kind of cartel gun battles breaking out in cities 
that have already become commonplace in Mexico.
    Now, this is not to paint every illegal migrant as a gang 
member or terrorist, but the Biden open borders policy is 
clearly allowing many dangerous gang members, terrorists, and 
criminals into our country, and he doesn't seem to care about 
the resulting damage.
    Meanwhile, the social safety net meant to help Americans in 
need is collapsing under the weight of millions of desperate, 
destitute, and dependent illegal migrants who are flooding our 
country.
    New York City has now turned as many as 20 public school 
gymnasiums into hotels for illegal aliens. Recess is canceled 
because single adult men are sleeping on cots in gyms intended 
for school children.
    We have heard from food pantries whose supplies are 
exhausted because of the explosion of illegal migrants. We have 
heard from hospital administrators at the border who have had 
to tell American citizens that they have no room for them 
because they are overwhelmed by migrants. We hear from law 
enforcement of the increasing presence of criminal cartels and 
foreign gangs in their communities.
    Yet, the Democrats' witness is going to tell us a solution: 
Simply spend more money and process illegal migrants faster. 
This is lunacy.
    It is a crime to illegally enter the United States. Federal 
law requires every asylum claimant to be detained until their 
case is heard and to be deported if it is rejected, but this 
administration simply ignores the law.
    Now, these first hearings have examined the effect of these 
policies. Over the next few weeks, we will turn our attention 
to the cause: What laws are being violated and by whom?
    With that I am pleased to recognize the Ranking Member of 
the Subcommittee, Ms. Jayapal, for five minutes.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    I want to start just by taking a moment to express my 
deepest condolences to you, Ms. Nobles. You have experienced a 
profound loss and I appreciate your coming to share Kayla's 
story with us today.
    Turning to today's hearing, it appears once again 
unfortunately that it is Groundhog Day in our Subcommittee. 
Today is Part 3 of our hearings on the Republicans' assault on 
immigrants and immigration, and I am sure we will have many 
more parts to come.
    I worry that today will be more of the same with my 
Republican colleagues once again showing us that they are not 
serious about governing and finding solutions to the complex 
issue of immigration. After passing their extreme, cruel, and 
unworkable border bill, where the only bipartisan thing about 
it was the opposition, Republicans have spent the last few 
weeks fearmongering over the end of Title 42.
    This fearmongering about the border, let me be clear, 
empowers the smugglers and cartels when our Republican 
colleagues claim that the border is open. That is the most 
important information that they use to continue their 
activities. Turns into disinformation and misinformation shared 
by smugglers, distributed by social media, and stoked by 
relentless right-wing media lies and shouts of open borders, 
all which fuel migration patterns.
    Yet, what are the facts? The facts are that when Title 42, 
a public health policy, not an immigration enforcement policy, 
finally ended, what happened? Border encounters plummeted by 70 
percent. Thus far, the increased migration narrative pushed in 
the right-wing media has not yet come.
    The lower numbers are likely due, at least in part, to the 
Biden Administration's new policies announced in the lead-up to 
the end of Title 42. These announcements detailed how they plan 
to address migration to the southwest border going forward. The 
administration showed that once again Democrats have real 
workable solutions to manage migration and expand legal 
pathways.
    On top of the parole programs created by the Biden 
Administration earlier, this year the administration announced 
the creation of additional legal pathways that are intended to 
relieve pressure at the border. The administration announced 
that they are opening regional processing centers across the 
Western Hemisphere for the first time to facilitate access to 
legal pathways in the United States. This is an important step 
to allow migrants to get their protection and benefits claims 
assessed in a humane way without having to make the dangerous 
journey to the U.S.-Mexico border.
    The administration is also creating new family 
reunification parole processes for El Salvador, Guatemala, 
Honduras, and Colombia. This is for people who already have an 
approved family petition modeled off the Cuban Family 
Reunification Program my colleagues attempted to codify in H.R. 
2.
    The administration is also increasing the number of 
appointments that will be available under the CBP One app, 
which while far from perfect, does increase CBP One's ability 
to process more migrants.
    The administration also implemented new policies that I do 
have significant concerns about. This includes a new asylum 
regulation that limits access to asylum for those who cross 
between ports of entry as well as new expedited processing of 
single adults from Spanish-speaking countries where individuals 
will get an initial asylum screening in a Border Patrol 
facility.
    Now, none of these solutions are perfect. Addressing the 
issue of migration is difficult, but Democrats have shown time 
and time again that we take this complex humanitarian crisis 
seriously. By creating a more human immigration system that 
recognizes the horrific conditions that cause migrants to flee 
as well as contributions of immigrants to America we can 
decrease unauthorized crossings, strengthen our economy, and 
protect migrants and citizens from harm.
    Unfortunately, Republicans have shown us their priorities 
with their border bill and now with their Fiscal Year 2024 
Department of Homeland Security appropriations bill. That bill 
would only create more disorder at the border. Budgets are 
moral documents that show what we value and prioritize.
    Their bill, which was released last week, defunds the 
Emergency Food and Shelter Program which is helping migrants 
who are processed by CBP move away from the border to be with 
sponsors or family in the United States as they await their 
court hearing.
    Their bill ends the use of the Family Case Management 
Program which had a nearly 100-percent success rate in helping 
families show up for their immigration court hearings. It 
disallows the use of alternatives to detention unless the 
secretary himself directly approves it, which would create a 
significant bottleneck for moving people out of CBP custody.
    It defends the Asylum Officer Rule, which allows asylum 
officers to adjudicate asylum claims, helps alleviate the 
growing immigration court backlog, and it ends the use of the 
CBP app for people who are coming through parole, which will 
severely hamper CBP's ability to process migrants in a safe and 
orderly way.
    Now, all these policy choices give the game away. None of 
these policy choices are intended to help the agency. They will 
create more chaos and disorder at the border. That appears to 
be the point of my Republican colleagues' efforts. Create chaos 
and disorder and hope, hope to win the next election.
    Now, if the Chair of the Subcommittee is so concerned about 
airplanes being grounded, I would just say that the Default on 
America Act and the attempts that Republicans are making right 
now to put forward serious cuts--that default would actually 
halt all the air traffic controllers across the country.
    I look forward to hearing from all our witnesses today. The 
American people deserve better, and I hope that our witnesses 
can shed light on real solutions to address the situation at 
our border in a holistic way.
    With that, I yield back, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes the Chair of the House Judiciary 
Committee, Mr. Jordan.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the Chair.
    The Ranking Member started her statement by saying the 
border is secure. Really?
    Ms. Jayapal. I did not.
    Chair Jordan. More than 52 million illegal aliens along the 
southwest border has been encountered since Joe Biden took 
office, two million of these illegal aliens have been released 
into American communities, and more than 12 million known 
illegal got-aways have successfully crossed the southwest 
border undetected. These include criminal gang members, drug 
dealers, and individuals on the Terrorist Watchlist. That is 
not a secure border. That is not a closed border.
    Ms. Jayapal. I never said that--I never started my 
statement with a--
    Chair Jordan. That is--
    Ms. Jayapal. --secure border, Mr. Chair.
    Chair Jordan. That has happened because on day one--
    Ms. Jayapal. I am just--
    Mr. McClintock. The time--
    Ms. Jayapal. I am correcting the record, because you stated 
something that was not true. Thank you, Mr.--
    Mr. McClintock. The gentlelady should know that 
interrupting a Member without making a valid point of order is 
against the rules of the Committee.
    Ms. Jayapal. Not if they lie about what I said.
    Chair Jordan. The time belongs to the Chair. The Chair is 
recognized.
    Chair Jordan. I would just point out the gentlelady said 
Republicans say the border is open. She said that is not so. 
So, what does that mean if it is open? So, is it something that 
is not secure, not closed? I would just say what she referenced 
in her opening statement. Day one of this administration they 
stopped construction of the wall, they ended Remain in Mexico, 
and they put back in place Catch and Release. Day one. That is 
why we have the situation we do.
    In that same period, I just talked about 28 months of this 
administration over 43,000 pounds of fentanyl have been seized 
at the southwest border with an unknown amount making it into 
our communities. There has also been an uptick in the number of 
individuals on the FBI Terrorist Watchlist.
    Just two weeks ago Border Patrol apprehended an Afghan who 
illegally crossed into San Diego Sector in California and days 
later news reports indicate that an additional five watchlisted 
illegal aliens were apprehended in Tucson, Arizona after 
attempting to avoid detection.
    Our witnesses today understand the consequences of our 
borders being unprotected all too well, all of them, and I want 
to thank them for being here today.
    I want to particularly thank Ms. Nobles for bravely 
agreeing to appear here today to talk about the unthinkable 
tragedy that affected her family. Her daughter Kayla was 20 
years old when she was assaulted and murdered. The person 
charged with the crime was an MS-13 gang member who was allowed 
to enter the United States after crossing the border illegally 
as a so-called unaccompanied alien child.
    Despite the UAC having a criminal history in El Salvador 
for MS-13 gang affiliation well before he even entered the 
United States, law enforcement only became aware of this fact 
after Kayla's murder. Why not until after Kayla's murder? 
Because prior to the murder no one in this administration 
bothered to check into the UAC's criminal history in his home 
country. The Hamilton family was not alone this year in 
experiencing such a horrific event.
    In January suspected cartel members massacred six people, 
including a 10-month-old infant, assassination style in Goshen, 
California. In April of this year a nationwide manhunt ensued 
after a man who had been deported on four separate occasions 
killed five people including a nine-year-old boy.
    It is well past time that we enforce the law, secure our 
border, and we should pass--the Senate should pass the bill 
that we passed in the House just a few weeks ago, so we can get 
our border under control and secure.
    With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. The Chair now recognizes the Ranking Member 
of the House Judiciary Committee, Mr. Nadler.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    I first wish to express my most sincere condolences to Ms. 
Nobles. I am so sorry for your loss, and I thank you for coming 
to tell us Kayla's story. May her memory be a blessing.
    Mr. Chair, the United States has a long history of 
welcoming asylum seekers to our shores. Our constituents in 
Manhattan are able to see a reminder of this history every day 
in the Statue of Liberty welcoming the tired, the poor, and 
huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
    Throughout our history refugees from near and far have 
sought safety here. While our laws have never been perfect, 
they have always allowed at least some refugees to enter.
    Our modern refugee program and the world's view about our 
collective responsibility for refugees were radically reshaped 
by the Holocaust. When the United States joined both Canada and 
Cuba in turning away the MS St. Louis and her than 900 Jewish 
passengers in 1939, we allowed asylum seekers to be returned to 
persecution in Europe. Nearly \1/3\ of the boat's passengers 
perished at the hands of the Nazis.
    Many other countries also turned away Jewish refugees 
during World War II. The horrors that followed led to the 
creation of the United Nations and ultimately to the 
international refugee framework that we still use today. It 
took a while for domestic laws to catch up to our international 
commitments, so when Congress moved too slowly presidents used 
their expansive immigration powers to help get people to 
safety.
    In 1956, President Eisenhower oversaw the parole of over 
30,000 Hungarian refugees into the United States. More parolees 
followed including more than 58,000 Cubans between 1961-1962, 
15,000 Chinese refugees from Hong Kong between 1962-1966, and 
over 130,000 Southeast Asian refugees following the fall of 
Saigon in 1975.
    We passed the Refugee Act of 1980 with overwhelming 
bipartisan support which established the domestic framework for 
refugee and asylee processing. The commitment by resident--by 
presidents and lawmakers of both parties to accept refugees 
solidifies--solidified our country's status as a symbol of hope 
for those trying to escape persecution.
    Sadly, that came to a crashing halt under the Trump 
Administration. Former President Trump slashed our refugee 
program both at home and abroad, implemented discriminatory 
bans, demonized immigrants, separated families, and put all his 
focus into building a wall between ourselves and Mexico.
    Still people came because the dangers they faced on their 
journeys here paled in comparison to the horrors from which 
they were fleeing. COVID exacerbated the problems and President 
Trump used authorities under Title 42, a policy to protect 
public health, to turn away asylum seekers arriving at the 
border.
    When President Biden came into office, he reversed course 
on many of the prior administration's most heinous policies, 
but Title 42 remained, even while our Republican colleagues 
claimed that the border was open and that President Biden and 
Secretary Mayorkas were purposefully inviting an ``invasion,'' 
in quotes, ``of migrants to our shores.''
    These claims were used by smugglers to entice migrants to 
make the journey North and echoed by mass shooters in their 
manifestos.
    The Biden Administration has been working to get our 
immigration system back on track, but Republicans have been 
fighting him every step of the way. They voted to end the COVID 
emergency declaration, but they said that the administration 
should not end its use of Title 42 even though that policy was 
tied to the pandemic. They passed a messaging bill over 
bipartisan opposition that would decimate our asylum system and 
send vulnerable people back into harm's way.
    In the weeks leading up to Title 42's expiration they 
stoked fears that we would see chaos and massive numbers of 
migrants crossing at the border. Yet, what happened? Thanks to 
the policies put in place by the Biden Administration the 
numbers at the border dropped by 70 percent following the 
expiration of Title 42, but the fearmongering continues.
    Unfortunately, my colleagues are not ones to let facts get 
in the way of a good story. The latest example comes from my 
home State of New York where Orange County Republicans claimed 
that homeless veterans were being displaced by migrants. This 
was quickly echoed by the Speaker of the House and other 
Congressional Republicans, and even by one of our witnesses.
    On the screen are tweet after tweet by my Republican 
colleagues amplifying this story to stoke fears about the 
border and to distract from their own failures to enact 
meaningful solutions, yet the claims contained in the story 
have turned out to be completely unfounded with even the New 
York Post running a retraction.
    So, here we are again in another hearing about the, ``Biden 
border crisis.'' I am sure that no matter what happens at the 
border we will continue to have hearings on this topic, and we 
will continue to see partisan messaging bills that have no 
chance of ever becoming law.
    As one of my Republican colleagues said, there is a reason 
why we haven't gotten significant border security done and why 
we haven't seen significant immigration reform done. It is in 
the interests of many politicians to have this crisis continue 
to flare up.
    Democrats are willing to work with serious Republicans to 
make changes to our immigration system that would allow people 
to come here lawfully while ensuring the safety and security of 
our citizens. We want to have the tough conversations about the 
best path forward and we have passed bipartisan legislation 
that has addressed some of the thorniest issues like the Farm 
Workforce Modernization Issues, but so long as this majority 
insists on its partisan blame games, we are just going to keep 
talking past each other and nothing will be solved.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. Thank 
you for coming to speak about your experience and your 
expertise.
    I yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection, all other opening 
statements will be included in the record.
    Mr. McClintock. I will now introduce the four witnesses we 
have today.
    The first will be the Hon. Rodney Scott. Chief Scott served 
over 29 years in the United States Border Patrol before 
retiring as Chief of the Border Patrol in August 2021. During 
that time, he held numerous leadership positions at various 
stations and sectors along the South border, as well as several 
leadership and specialized assignments at U.S. Customs and 
Border Protection Headquarters.
    Our second witness will be Mr. Mark Hetfield. Mr. Hetfield 
has been the President and CEO of the Hebrew Immigration Aid 
Society since 2013. Prior to that he held several other 
positions at the Society, worked as an immigration attorney, 
and worked for the Immigration and Naturalization Service. The 
Hebrew Immigration Aid Society is a nongovernmental 
organization that settles refugees and provides legal services 
to aliens.
    I will now yield to the gentleman from New York, Mr. 
Lawler, to introduce the third witness.
    Mr. Lawler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is my distinct 
pleasure to introduce Orangetown Supervisor Teresa Kenny, a 
lifelong Rockland County resident, who cares deeply for her 
residents and their quality of life. Supervisor Kenny is an 
attorney and daughter of a retired New York City police 
officer. She has both a deep appreciation for the rule of law 
and a deep knowledge of our legal system. Prior to serving as 
Supervisor, she served as Deputy Town Attorney for the Town of 
Orangetown and practiced real State law in private practice for 
over 30 years. I can think of no one better to highlight the 
gross overreach by Mayor Eric Adams and other officials in New 
York attempting usurp local zoning laws than Teresa Kenny.
    Any claim that our border is secure you need not look 
further than New York where New York City has taken in over 
65,000 migrants since this crisis exacerbated last year. The 
Governor and the Mayor are asking for an emergency declaration. 
They have nowhere else to house these migrants.
    So, the idea that we do not have open borders is laughable 
on its face. Couple that with New York's sanctuary city policy 
and you have a recipe for disaster in New York City and it is 
spilling out into communities across New York State. That is 
why Teresa Kenny's testimony here today is invaluable to this 
Committee.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Then we will finally hear from 
Ms. Tammy Nobles. Ms. Nobles is a realtor from Norfolk, 
Virginia. She volunteers part-time as the President of the 
Downs Syndrome Association of Hampton Roads. She is the mother 
of Kayla Hamilton.
    We welcome our witnesses. We thank them for appearing today 
and we will begin by swearing you in. Would you please rise and 
raise your right hand?
    Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the 
testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best 
of your knowledge, information, and belief so help you God?
    Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in 
the affirmative. Thank you and you can be seated.
    Please know that your written testimony will be entered in 
the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask that you 
summarize your testimony in five minutes, and we will begin 
with Chief Rodney Scott. You want to turn your mic on.

                STATEMENT OF CHIEF RODNEY SCOTT

    Chief Scott. Sorry, I thought it was on. I apologize. Chair 
McClintock, Ranking Member Jayapal, Chair Jordan, and Ranking 
Member Nadler, and Members of the Committee, thank you for 
having me here today.
    I am currently a Senior Distinguished Fellow for Border 
Security and Immigration at the Texas Public Policy Foundation, 
but as stated, before joining Texas Public Policy, I served 29 
years as a United States Border Patrol Agent. I started out as 
a GS-5 Border Patrol Agent Trainee and I was competitively 
promoted through the Civil Service ranks and was ultimately 
promoted to Chief. I served as President Biden's Chief of U.S. 
Border Patrol until I retired in August 2021. I think it is 
important to know I was never a political appointee.
    Over my career, I was honored to participate in the 
transformation of an uncontrolled chaotic southwest border to a 
border that was increasingly secure. Meaningful progress 
started in 1994 under the Clinton Administration when a 
strategy proposed by U.S. Border Patrol was adopted. That 
strategy used focused personnel deployments, barriers, 
technology, and consequences for violations of law to reduce 
the chaos of illegal immigration and free up agents to focus on 
public safety threats.
    The basic principles of this successful strategy endured 
every Presidential Administration until January 2021. My first-
hand experiences taught me that border security and immigration 
are two distinctly different, yet interrelated issues. Border 
security is simply knowing and controlling who and what is 
entering our homeland. Immigration and the customs laws are 
completely irrelevant if you cannot control the initial entry.
    The terrorist attacks on 9/11 also had a profound impact on 
my understanding of border security. Prior to 9/11, terrorism 
was not part of the border patrol's discussions. This changed 
as our Nation realized that foreign terrorists that exploited 
vulnerabilities in our border security. Congress responded 
quickly by creating the Department of Homeland Security and I 
responded by accepting an opportunity to build the Office of 
Antiterrorism with Customs and Border Protection. I quickly 
found myself immersed in classified intelligence briefings and 
interagency planning to mitigate terrorist threats.
    The terrorists that perpetrated 9/11 entered through our 
ports of entry and as such, our priority was improving the 
ports of entry. We knew that as we mitigated those 
vulnerabilities, terrorists would predictively shift to 
entering in between the ports of entry. We also had reason to 
believe that the terrorist organizations would increasingly 
seek operatives that were unknown to U.S. intelligence, so we 
could not rely solely on records checks. We would need skilled 
interviewers.
    The border patrol strategy evolved with an increased focus 
on situational awareness through intelligence and physical 
surveillance. However, deterring illegal immigration through a 
certainty of arrests and application of consequences remained a 
fundamental
pillar.
    When I was selected as Chief, the capabilities of the 
border patrol to detect and interdict illegal entries was 
better than ever and it was rapidly improving. Fewer illegal 
entries combined with the construction of the new border wall 
system made every agent more effective. This equated to 
additional time that agents were spending on interviews to 
identify somebody positively as well as their intent and to 
glean intelligence on criminal networks that was used to 
improved investigations and operations.
    In contrast, I also experienced the reverse of the border 
security and immigration policy that was initiated by the Biden 
Administration. From day one, political leadership ignored 
career professionals and increasingly made policy decisions 
that resulted in thousands of aliens being released into the 
United States. As predicted, the volume of illegal immigration 
rapidly increased. It overwhelmed border patrol and effectively 
transferred control of the United States border with Mexico to 
the drug cartels.
    I watched border security gains that have been made over 
three decades vanish and the safety of border communities 
spiral backward. Policy makers must understand this is not 
simply immigration issues. This is a national security threat. 
Cartels use illegal aliens to overwhelm law enforcement, create 
controllable gaps in border security that they then exploit to 
bring in anything they want. To think the well-resourced 
terrorist networks and hostile Nations are not exploiting this 
same vulnerability is naive.
    Prioritizing immigration processing over enforcement also 
means that the agents are spread so thin when they are deployed 
that even when they detect an illegal entry, they are not 
always able to interdict it. These events are reported by the 
border patrol as known gotaways. It is also important to know 
that this does not encompass the total gotaways. The hundreds 
of miles of border that are left unpatrolled on a daily or 
weekly basis now and that lack persistent surveillance we have 
no idea what is crossed in those areas.
    In my professional assessment, the U.S. Border Patrol has 
lost our ability to know who and what is entering our homeland. 
Please remember, the border is simply a transit location. It is 
not a destination. These people and these things are going to 
every city, town, and State across this Nation. I look forward 
to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Chief Scott follows:]
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    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Next, we will hear from Mr. Mark 
Hetfield.

                   STATEMENT OF MARK HETFIELD

    Mr. Hetfield. Mr. Chair, Ranking Member Jayapal, and 
Members of the Subcommittee, I thank you for this opportunity 
to join you today to speak about securing about border.
    HIAS, founded over 120 years ago, is the Hebrew Immigrant 
Aid Society. It is the oldest refugee organization in the 
world. We were founded to help refugees because they were 
Jewish. Today, we help refugees because we are Jewish. We 
resettle refugees across the United States and partnership with 
the U.S. Government and Jewish communities. We also operate in 
22 other countries, half of which are in Latin America, working 
to help refugees find welcome and safety in their countries of 
asylum.
    HIAS is old enough to remember the importance of American 
leadership in drafting the Refugee Convention of 1951 and the 
Refugee Act of 1980 which passed this chamber and was signed 
into law with strong bipartisan support. These landmark 
measures were intended to ensure that never again would people 
fleeing persecution be turned back to their persecutors.
    Today, however, our asylum and immigration and border 
protection systems are in dire need of investment, updating, 
and repair. We can all agree that the status quo is absolutely 
unacceptable. Congress has not addressed illegal immigration 
pathways in over three decades. The pretext for not doing so is 
that we cannot fix legal immigration pathways until we fix the 
border. This is a false choice, ignoring the laws of supply and 
demand. We cannot fix the border without also reforming legal 
immigration pathways.
    As long as there are jobs to fill that American citizens 
cannot or will not do, the U.S. Government will not be able to 
secure the border. Congress needs to establish more pathways. 
As long as the Government continues to invest in immigration 
enforcement officers without investing in immigration judges 
and asylum officers and in a more and efficient asylum system, 
we will not be able to secure the border. Otherwise, people 
will continue to apply for asylum and be assigned a court date 
many years into the future.
    As long as this system continues to leave people in limbo 
for decades like TPS recipients, streamers, humanitarian 
parolees, and people who have withholding of removal with no 
pathway to permanent residence or family reunion, we will not 
be able to secure the border.
    So long as it is difficult for asylum seekers to access 
legal counsel, you won't be able to secure the border because 
they will not have access to advice on whether or not they 
qualify and should proceed with their application.
    HIAS welcomes the Biden Administration's announcement that 
it is establishing resettlement processing centers in South and 
Central America. To secure the border, we need such safe and 
legal pathways for fleeing for their lives to access 
resettlement, but as a safer complement to asylum, not as a 
substitute.
    Similarly, we welcome the Biden Administration's earlier 
decision to reopen the Central American Minors Program, so 
children will no longer have to risk their lives to reunite 
with family across the border. Separating families, pushing 
people back without a hearing for their asylum claims, and 
subjecting asylum seekers to inhumane conditions on both sides 
of the border in detention shames us, but will not deter people 
from coming here if they have no better options.
    My written testimony details the story of one HIAS client 
in Mexico from Venezuela who after struggling with the glitchy 
CBP app was locked in Mexican immigration detention in March in 
Huarez when the fire broke out where detainees were locked in 
their cells and could not escape. Forty people were killed, but 
he survived by keeping his head in the toilet throughout the 
ordeal. He is now in the United States receiving medical 
treatment for the burns all over his body.
    My written statement provides details on HIAS's proposed 
approaches to the many challenges at the border. I cannot 
overemphasize, however, that there are no easy or cheap 
solutions to make up for decades of under investment, neglect, 
and polarization around this issue. We hope we can rely on the 
administration and Congress and this Subcommittee to find 
bipartisan solutions that provide the legal pathways and the 
enforcement mechanisms necessary to restore equilibrium and 
integrity to our asylum and immigration systems.
    In the meantime, there needs to be additional resources at 
the border and within our asylum system, but those resources 
cannot be solely focused on apprehension, removal, and 
detention or on removal without a screening. The administration 
should not replace one legal fiction barring asylum seekers on 
health grounds with another, barring them because they did not 
go through asylum systems that are even more dysfunctional than 
our own.
    In the immediate term, the administration and Congress 
should focus on increasing resources for the fair and efficient 
adjudication of asylum claims on a last-in and first-out base 
with legal counseling and measures to ensure that CBP follows 
the law and their own procedures to ensure that no one is sent 
back into harm's way. The Refugee Admissions Program should be 
resourced to be safe and orderly for pathways so that people 
can rely on U.S. law rather than on smugglers. We are not the 
only country facing this humanitarian challenge and we cannot 
solve it alone. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hetfield follows:]
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    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. We will next hear from 
Supervisor Teresa Kenny.

                   STATEMENT OF TERESA KENNY

    Ms. Kenny. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and every 
Member of the Subcommittee for giving me the opportunity to 
speak with you today about what transpired with Mayor Eric 
Adams and his efforts to house migrants in a local hotel in 
Orangetown, New York. I am here today as the Town Supervisor of 
Orangetown, a suburban community, approximately 30 miles North 
of New York City to give you some insight into what is 
happening around the country as a result of migration crisis at 
the southern border.
    It is important to note at the onset that what is happening 
in Orangetown is not unique. It is playing out throughout 
communities all over our country as major cities are reaching 
capacity for migrant housing and they are sending into other 
communities without any regard for whether they have the 
resources or capabilities to handle them.
    Orangetown's story began on Friday, May 5th, when New York 
City Mayor Adams called to tell me about a pilot program he was 
implementing as part of his decompression strategy. The plan, 
he explained, was to relocate migrants from New York City and 
to house them in hotels across New York State. He was calling 
to let me know that a hotel in Orangetown has been identified 
as a possible location.
    Mayor Adams downplayed the plan telling me there was a 
chance that no one would be housed in Orangetown, and he 
implied that it would be happening in weeks. When pressed for 
specifics, he told me that a member of his team would get back 
to me.
    I received a call from a member of the Mayor's staff and 
that is when I learned that the plan was to house single, adult 
males in a local hotel and that the buses would be arriving 
imminently. In fact, it was within hours of that call that I 
received photos of hundreds of mattresses stacked outside the 
Armoni Inn and Suites hotel and it was evident to me that the 
plan had been in the works for quite sometime and that it 
included getting local elected officials very little advance 
notice as a means to thwart legal challenges.
    Throughout the following day, it became clear that New York 
City intended to house 340 men at the Armoni Inn and Suites, a 
local hotel in Orangeburg, a small hamlet of just over three-
square miles in a population of approximately 4,500 people. The 
hotel is situated less than a mile from two college campuses, 
two senior citizen housing complexes, and a high school. It is 
located at the intersection of New York State, Route 303, which 
is one of the most dangerous highways in the county and Kings 
Highway, a street of mostly residential homes.
    Mayor Adams' plan was simple, to convert the hotel in 
Orange-
town into a housing facility for long-term residents. In other 
words, to open a New York City homeless shelter in Orangetown 
which is a clear violation of our local zoning standards. So, 
based on this information and what was brought up from the 
phone calls and the observations of medical supplies and other 
shelter items by town officials who inspected the property, the 
town issued a Notice of Violation to advise the hotel that it 
was not consistent with the definition of a hotel as set forth 
in our town code.
    Despite the issuance of the Notice of Violation, on 
Tuesday, May 9th, New York City scheduled a debriefing call 
with elected officials to tell us that they would be sending 
buses the next day. They also described conditions consistent 
with a shelter and that there would be onsite staff available 
24 hours a day, seven days a week, including one social worker 
and one case worker per migrant for 30 migrants and that New 
York City would cover the cost of three meals, laundry service, 
and housekeeping for up to four months. They also introduced us 
to the staff from DocGo, a company that New York City had 
contracted with which specializes in providing medical-related 
services to shelters.
    In light of this, the town filed legal papers in Rockland 
County Supreme Court and retained a restraining order against 
the hotel on Tuesday, May 9th, effectively preventing the use 
of a hotel as a shelter and the arrival of any migrants from 
New York City the next day.
    To be very clear, for our purposes the immigration status 
of the individuals is irrelevant to the town's decision to seek 
legal recourse. The counsel of legal action to ensure the 
integrity of local zoning regulations and the protection of 
those who would be housed in the hotel on a long-term basis as 
a shelter, as well as the community at large.
    I also want to outright reject any charges made that it is 
an act of anti-immigration. Rockland County is home to a 
vibrant immigrant population and in fact, I am married to one, 
but over the last two years, there has been a steady increase 
of migrants finding their way to Rockland County and settling 
in with the support of family, friends, and local community 
groups. This has already started to put a strain on Rockland 
County and Rockland County Department of Social Services so 
much that just over two months ago, Congressman Mike Lawler and 
County Executive Ed Day held a press conference and standing 
with nonprofits explained the financial impact on Rockland 
County.
    The problem with Mr. Adams' plan is that he does not have 
one. That became evident when during the debriefing call, a 
member of staff was asked what would happen with the migrants 
at the end of the four months? The response was that they 
expected them to integrate into the community by that time. 
Orangetown, like the rest of New York State, is in a housing 
crisis, affordability crisis. So, the question is how are these 
men, without English skills, without family support, going to 
integrate into our community?
    So, I will tell you what will happen. They will end up 
renting from unscrupulous landlords and we know it is happening 
because just this past March there was a tragic house fire in 
Rockland that killed five undocumented immigrants including two 
children with five others being hospitalized. Orange and 
Rockland County just do not have the resources or staffing 
levels to investigate and remedy these types of situations on a 
wide-scale basis.
    That the Federal government acting to stem the flow of 
migrants at the border, it was only a matter of time before it 
impacted all our neighborhoods. While it is Orangetown today. 
It will be yours tomorrow. Thank you and I look forward to 
answering questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Kenny follows:]
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    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Finally, we will hear from Ms. 
Tammy Nobles. Ms. Nobles, you have already heard from several 
of our colleagues. Our hearts go out to you, as do the hearts 
of every American who hears your story. I know that grief that 
always feels very alone, but I want to assure you that you are 
not alone, and you are recognized to tell your story.

                   STATEMENT OF TAMMY NOBLES

    Ms. Nobles. Thank you to the Members of the Committee for 
having me. My name is Tammy Nobles. I am the mother of Kayla 
Hamilton. July 24, 2002, was one of the best days of my life. I 
gave birth to a beautiful baby girl and named her Kayla Marie. 
She was a happy and easy-going baby. Even back then, she loved 
to smile and laugh. She always kept her friends close and never 
forgot anyone. She was kind, caring, thoughtful, and funny. She 
loved life and God. She showed the world that being yourself 
was OK and you didn't have to follow everyone else.
    Sadly, on July 27, 2022, I received the worse news that a 
parent doesn't want to hear, that my newly 20-year-old daughter 
Kayla Hamilton was murdered in her own room and left on the 
floor like trash. She left behind a mother who loved her, a 
stepfather, a brother, a younger sister, grandparents, and lots 
of aunts, uncles, and cousins. At first, we knew very little 
details of the murder until an arrest was made. The details we 
learned broke us.
    At the of March 2022, Kayla's murderer was apprehended by 
Border Patrol crossing illegally into the U.S. at the southwest 
border and Rio Grande City, Texas. I am not sure if he was 
vetted or not, but he was a 16-year-old known gang member 
affiliated with MS-13 in El Salvador. The MS-13 motto is kill, 
rape, and control. He entered the country as an unoccupied 
alien child. As a UAC, the murderer was allowed to go live with 
his aunt in Frederick, Maryland. She was also an illegal 
immigrant. There were issues with him living there and he went 
to go live with his half-brother who lived in the same trailer 
park as Kayla and her boyfriend.
    My questions are what protocol was the aunt supposed to 
follow? If she couldn't handle him, then why not inform the 
proper authorities? The half-brother tried to get him a job and 
to do the right thing, but that didn't happen. So, the half-
brother told him that he had to leave.
    At the trailer park, an illegal immigrant owned numerous 
trailers and was subletting them out. That is how Kayla was 
able to get a place because she didn't make much and had no 
credit yet. The half-brother asked the owner if she had any 
rooms for rent. She did. The same trailer as Kayla. Kayla's 
murderer was living there less than five days before he 
viciously murdered my daughter.
    Kayla had two jobs. She was working at a cleaning company 
and at a grocery store. Kayla had autism, but she was 
determined to live independently and make her way in this world 
and my baby paid the ultimate price. She had just gotten home 
from working the night shift and said goodbye to her boyfriend 
that morning when he left for work. She then went to sleep. The 
murderer went into Kayla's room, straddling her, grabbed her 
iPod charger and wrapped it around her throat and face while 
strangling her to death. Kayla grabbed her phone and called her 
boyfriend but went to voice mail. The voice mail of the 
murderer strangling her was two minutes and 30 seconds long. 
The murderer then violently sexually assaulted Kayla. Kayla's 
boyfriend came home from work and found her dead on the floor. 
The charger cord was so tight around her neck and face that her 
boyfriend had to use his teeth to get it off. The murderer 
robbed her of her phone and six dollars. Six dollars was all my 
baby had in cash because she used the snack machines at work to 
get something to eat.
    He then went to lunch with his half-brother like nothing 
happened. Local police didn't have enough evidence to arrest 
the murderer, so Child Protective Services took him into 
custody and placed him in an unsecured children's home with 
other children, even knowing that he was a named suspect in a 
premeditated murder case.
    When he was arrest for Kayla's murder, he laughed and 
smirked. For me, this is not a political issue. This is a 
safety issue for everyone living in the United States. This 
could have been anyone's daughter. Kayla wasn't doing anything 
wrong. She didn't deserve to be murdered. I don't want any 
other parent to live the nightmare that I am living. I am her 
voice now and I am going to fight with everything I have to get 
her story told and bring awareness of the issue at the border. 
I will make sure her memory lives on.
    Murder itself is already taboo, but then you mention MS-13 
and nobody wants to touch it. Nothing will change if nobody 
talks about the problem. The U.S. Government has to secure our 
border. We need to properly vet all border crossers. The 
Government could have placed a phone call to authorities in El 
Salvador and found out that he was a gang member, but they 
didn't. If we had stricter border policies, my daughter would 
still be alive today. Nothing will bring my daughter back nor 
the pain, nor will fix the pain of not having her here. I want 
to prevent this from happening to someone else's child. This is 
about protecting everyone here in the United States. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Nobles follows:]
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    Mr. McClintock. We will now proceed with the five-minute 
rule of questions. I will defer mine until the end and 
recognize Mr. Biggs of Arizona.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Nobles, thank you 
again for being here. I thank all the witnesses, but thank you 
for your poignant testimony.
    I think of Steve Ronnebeck, whose son Grant was murdered as 
he worked at a convenience store in Mesa, Arizona by an illegal 
alien or Mary Ann Mendoza whose, son Brandon was a police 
officer was killed by an illegal alien in Mesa, Arizona. Our 
heart goes out to you, Ms. Nobles.
    I am stunned that a witness would say we need to find 
equilibrium at a time when six million plus people have 
illegally entered the country in the last two years. Stunned. I 
am stunned to know that of 31,000, 32,000 people, 21,000 of 
them were released into the country over a 72-96-hour period. I 
am stunned because we don't have control of our border. The CBP 
Chief Ortiz has testified that the cartels control our border, 
as has Sector Chief Modlin of the Tucson Sector, as has Sector 
Chief Chavez of the Rio Grande Valley Sector.
    I will go to you Chief Scott. Has Secretary Mayorkas taken 
the actions necessary and appropriate to achieve and maintain 
operational control of the borders?
    Chief Scott. Absolutely not, sir. If you listen to the 
words he states every time, it's about creating safe pathways. 
When I was Chief, we were not allowed to even discuss 
consequences or actually securing the border. It was all about 
expediting the processing and avoiding the optics of people 
backed up into Border Patrol stations.
    Mr. Biggs. We've heard today about new parole processes 
being implemented. Last year, over 300,000 people received 
parole. This year, it will be over 750,000.
    Prior to the Biden Administration, typically, you might see 
15-20, maybe as high as 25, parole processes. That's because 
that's an individual process. Even Secretary Mayorkas has 
testified before this Committee that it's an individual 
process.
    What has he done to distort the parole process, Chief 
Scott?
    Chief Scott. I, honestly, do not understand how they can 
look at the law and do what they're currently doing with the 
parole process. By law, every one of those approvals is 
supposed to be a case-by-case basis. It's supposed to be based 
on a humanitarian reason or a benefit to the U.S. Government.
    My entire time in the Border Patrol, I probably approved--
and I'm estimating--about six or eight paroles a year, at the 
most, and those were usually to benefit a case or because of 
some type of a medical condition. There were tight restrictions 
put on every one of those. It was probably a packet about an 
inch thick--about keeping track of the individual. Because the 
concept of parole is you're allowing someone into the United 
States that we know does not have a legal right to be here. 
They haven't proven it. So, we're accepting risk on behalf of 
all America. That's a heavy burden. We all took that very 
seriously.
    I do not believe the Border Patrol can be doing today the 
legal assessment required for each individual case. It's just 
not possible.
    Mr. Biggs. Chief Scott, DHS officials--and I'm quoting now 
from a The New York Times piece reads, ``Thousands of migrants 
are successfully using CBP instead of paying smugglers.'' Are 
we to believe that CBP is an alternative to cartel smuggling? 
Or are we actually using CBP to facilitate cartel smuggling?
    Chief Scott. There's--the CBP app is a--from my understand-
ing, it is, basically, a queuing mechanism, like we used to do 
at ports of entry with a pen and paper on the South side. 
Anything that happens on the South side of that border is 
definitely controlled or influenced heavily by the cartel.
    Anything we can do to get them out of the system would be 
fine, but I think the piece that we're missing here, too, is 
we're now taking away from the legal trade-and-travel processes 
of the CBP officers at those ports of entry. They were all 
gainfully employed prior, and the CBP app is pushing more and 
more people into that port of entry that don't have, by 
definition, do not have a legal right to be here.
    The other challenge is it's a magnet. Because to use the 
CBP app--again, from my understanding--you have to be in 
Mexico; you have to be up close to the border. So, that entices 
even more people into that border community, and the throughput 
does not match the demand. Where does that overage go? Right 
back to the cartels.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. My time has expired.
    Mr. McClintock. The Chair now recognizes the Ranking Member 
for five minutes.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Hetfield, thank you for your very compelling testimony.
    As you know, one of the Biden Administration's answers to 
increased migration at the border is to expand legal pathways. 
As Title 42 was set to expire earlier this month, the United 
States announced its opening of regional processing centers all 
over the hemisphere. They will be starting in Guatemala and 
Colombia, and then, expanding to other countries, including 
Mexico.
    This seems like a positive step by the administration to 
build its capacity to take increased numbers of refugees before 
they even make that dangerous journey to our southern border. 
Would you agree with that? What do you think the United States 
needs to do to make these regional processing centers a 
success?
    Mr. Hetfield. Yes, I absolutely agree with that. I also 
agree with Chief Scott's assessment about the overuse of 
parole. The administration needs to rely more on the U.S. 
Refugee Admissions Program as a lawful pathway--with a pathway 
to permanent residence and, ultimately, citizenship and 
suitable vetting, and less on humanitarian parole. This is, 
definitely, a step in the right direction. So, I hope those 
centers are resourced.
    One of the key strategies that's going to have to be 
implemented, though, is you have to make those centers for 
asylum seekers with legitimate claims more attractive than 
crossing the border to seek asylum. So, you have to look at 
things that have been used in the past with the refugee 
program, like the Lautenberg Amendment, and apply that to their 
applications. You have to make sure that they are--that their 
applications are processed expeditiously and fairly. So, yes, 
but I'm absolutely supportive of that measure.
    Ms. Jayapal. If you listen to my colleagues, you will think 
that the United States is bearing the brunt of the global 
refugee crisis alone. HIAS works all over the world, as you 
said. It's simply not true. Can you discuss how other countries 
in the hemisphere are seeing significant increases in the 
number of asylum claims?
    Mr. Hetfield. Yes, absolutely. It really is a global 
refugee crisis, and we are just one player in this global 
refugee crisis. Colombia alone, which was, traditionally, a 
refugee-producing country, is now taking in refugees. Millions 
of Venezuelans, over 2.5 million Venezuelans have sought refuge 
in Colombia, where HIAS operates.
    Likewise, over 1.5 million in Peru; over half a million in 
Ecuador; and nearly half a million in Chile. If you look at 
every single country in the hemisphere, there are many asylum 
seekers. Most of them come from Venezuela, but also from 
Central America, and even outside of the Western Hemisphere, 
seeking asylum.
    So, this really requires international attention, and the 
U.S. has to lead on this issue.
    Ms. Jayapal. It's my understanding that HIAS is actually 
helping some of these individuals apply for asylum in other 
countries. Can you tell us more about that?
    Mr. Hetfield. Sure. I mean, HIAS's No. 1 job is to make 
asylum seekers safe and secure and welcome wherever they are. 
That's in the first countries to which they flee. When that 
fails, then, we try to find them third countries, but, again, 
through safe and orderly means, like refugee resettlement. Our 
operations have expanded massively over the last few years 
because of the refugee crisis, and the Venezuelan migration, in 
particular, throughout the Western Hemisphere.
    Ms. Jayapal. As you pointed out, refugee admissions and the 
need to assist refugees has always been a bipartisan concern 
until recently. In fact, I remember the testimony of somebody 
from the National Evangelical Association saying that our 
refugee resettlement program is the crown jewel of humanitarian 
assistance.
    Mr. Hetfield, I wanted to see if you could discuss 
misinformation and how it spreads among migrants who are making 
the long journey to the border. Can you discuss how rumors and 
misinformation is spread by the cartels of an open border 
impacts the number of migrants that we see trying to come to 
the United States?
    Mr. Hetfield. Sure. It's massive, but it's not all 
misinformation. They're spreading misinformation and, also, 
information about how broken our border and our immigration 
system is. That is an attractant to people to come in, to apply 
for asylum and other benefits, to which many of them are not 
actually entitled.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Hetfield. I couldn't agree 
more. I think our words matter, and I think that you pointing 
out of the importance of really establishing a functioning 
immigration system is absolutely crucial.
    As the Ranking Member of the Full Committee said in his 
opening statement, it is, unfortunately, seen as an advantage 
by many of our colleagues across the aisle to leave our 
immigration system broken, so that we can continue to point 
fingers at immigrants who are simply trying to do what so many 
of our forbearers have done--come to the United States because 
it is a country that has protected so many people fleeing 
terrible persecution and many other ills.
    I thank you for your testimony today and for being with us.
    I yield back, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. McClintock. The Chair recognizes Mr. Tiffany from 
Wisconsin for five minutes.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chief Scott, isn't it correct that many of these people are 
not asylum seekers; that they're actually not legitimate 
asylees?
    Chief Scott. That is very accurate. Most of them, when you 
ask them questions, they're economic refugees, if anything. 
They're seeking work. It's they're not political--
    Mr. Tiffany. Isn't it correct, when Remain in Mexico was in 
place under the previous administration, there was over 90 
percent rejected? They were not legitimate asylees?
    Chief Scott. That is correct. That also acted as a 
deterrent. So, people stopped coming to the border because they 
knew they couldn't get away with fraud.
    Mr. Tiffany. Yes, just for the record, Mr. Chair, I was 
down at the Darien Gap two years ago at this time in May. 
That's exactly what we heard, people were coming--they were 
like, ``We had resettled to Chile and we were perfectly happy 
there--We resettled to Brazil.'' Haitians, others, the 
Venezuelans, they said, ``We were perfectly happy there, but 
since you're going to open the border, we're going to come to 
the United States of America.'' That's not a legitimate asylum 
claim, is it?
    Chief Scott. That is not.
    Mr. Tiffany. Secretary Mayorkas, has he done his job to 
protect the American people?
    Chief Scott. I do not believe that he has. He's focused on 
the processing and completely ignored border security, which, 
by the way, actually decimates our immigration system. Good 
border security supports our good immigration system.
    Mr. Tiffany. Ms. Nobles, if border policies continue as 
they are over the last two years, will there be more Kaylas?
    Ms. Nobles. Yes, I believe so, and that is why I'm 
getting--trying to get her story out. So, people are aware of 
the issue.
    Mr. Tiffany. Might Kayla be alive if the Biden 
Administration had secured the border over the last two years?
    Ms. Nobles. Yes, I believe she would still be here if he 
was properly vetted.
    Mr. Tiffany. Would you prefer from us, if you had a choice, 
to get condolences from Members, which I'm sure are very 
heartfelt--would you prefer condolences or would you prefer 
changes in the law, like the Secure the Border Act to make--
    Ms. Nobles. I would like--oh, sorry. I would like to have 
changes in the law, and I want to put a law in Kayla's name to 
help to have her memory live on, and so those will know that 
she was the one that could that changed the law.
    Mr. Tiffany. Unfortunately, Mr. Chair, we have a name for 
these people, angel families. That is a horrible thing here in 
America, that we have such a thing, that we have to name all 
those people that have been killed by people who came in here 
illegally into our country.
    I want to go back to you, Mr. Scott. Have you had a chance 
to see the grand jury presentment in Florida? Have you reviewed 
that?
    Chief Scott. I have not reviewed it in its entirety, no.
    Mr. Tiffany. Would it surprise you, out of that 
presentment, a 24-year-old male was processed by ORR, the 
Office of Refugee Resettlement, and went on to violently kill 
his sponsor by stabbing him 50 times? Would it be a surprise 
that this person came in as a minor, but, actually, was a 24-
year-old male? Is that surprising to you?
    Chief Scott. It is not surprising. I'm familiar with that 
case. There's no data base that we can check people's ages off 
of. So, you have to go with their word.
    Mr. Tiffany. Would you be surprised, out of that 
presentment, that many don't carry any form of identification 
or authentic IDs?
    Chief Scott. I'm not surprised. Usually, they get rid of it 
before they cross the border.
    Mr. Tiffany. Are you surprised that UACs, unaccompanied 
alien children, are not rapid DNA tested or biometric tested?
    Chief Scott. To be honest, they're not even fingerprinted 
and photographed on many occasions if they're under 14. So, no.
    Mr. Tiffany. Would you be surprised to know, out of that 
presentment, that most case managers at ORR do not have any 
special training and many have been hired over the phone, sight 
unseen, with a very cursory approach?
    Chief Scott. That's very troubling, but, unfortunately, I'm 
not surprised.
    Mr. Tiffany. Would you be surprised that agents in the El 
Paso region discovered more than 665 adult illegal aliens in 
2021 alone who tried to pose as unaccompanied minors to gain 
expedited entry into the United States in the past 12 months?
    Chief Scott. I am not surprised. Anytime you carve out a 
special group, people try to take advantage of that and lie and 
get into it.
    Mr. Tiffany. Would you be surprised if an ORR attorney, the 
Office of Refugee Resettlement, stated, ``We only get sued for 
keeping them too long. We don't get sued by traffickers.''?
    Chief Scott. I am not surprised, no. It's consistent with 
what I was told and heard during my time as Chief in this 
administration.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you to all the people that are here 
today.
    I would just close: We heard all kinds of data from the 
Ranking Member here in his presentation over the course of 
three decades about--I believe it added up to about 233,000 
people came in via parole. That was over the course of three 
decades. We've had over a million people come in, Mr. Chair, in 
just a little over two years. That is not humane in any way. 
Terrorists, human traffickers, and fentanyl poisonings are a 
product of what has happened under the Biden Administration and 
Secretary Mayorkas.
    I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Nadler.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Hetfield, our Republican colleagues use a lot of 
inflammatory rhetoric, calling migrants arriving at the 
southern border ``an invasion.'' Can you discuss the impact 
this kind of language has on the work that you and HIAS do?
    Mr. Hetfield. Yes, that's a difficult topic. It's had a 
significant impact, especially as a Jewish agency. First, 
there's the vilification of undocumented immigrants and asylum 
seekers, which is having a major impact on the agency, security 
issues regarding the agency, and on relationships with the 
people that we deal with.
    The vast majority of asylum seekers are coming here because 
they are fleeing persecution. Many people who come here are not 
in need of protection, but that's why we need a system that 
makes that distinction. We don't have one right now.
    In terms of HIAS itself, unfortunately, the theory of 
replacement theory is gaining more and more mainstream 
attention, which is that there is a conspiracy of Jews and 
others to bring in Brown people and non-Christian people to 
replace White Christian Americans. This is becoming a serious 
problem for us. It's gaining more and more mainstream 
acceptance, and I'm not really sure what to do with that.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    The United States, along with others in the hemisphere, 
recently signed the Los Angeles Declaration on Migration and 
Protection. As part of the declaration, the United States 
committed to taking 20,000 refugees over the next two years 
from the hemisphere. This feels like a start, but seems wholly 
inadequate, given that seven million people are displaced from 
Venezuela alone. Would you agree and can the United States be 
doing more to take refugees from the hemisphere?
    Mr. Hetfield. Yes, absolutely. We're very late to that. As 
I said, many other countries are accepting many Venezuelans in 
much larger numbers than we are through more efficient 
processes. Venezuelans now make up the No. 1 population in the 
United States for asylum seekers. It is a hemispheric problem 
that needs a hemispheric solution, and we need to be part of 
that strategy, and accepting more to the Refugee Settlement 
Program. Again, a safe and orderly program is the best way to 
go.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    Can you discuss how the United States stepping up its 
refugee program can have a positive impact on the number of 
asylum seekers we see at the U.S. border?
    Mr. Hetfield. Right. It needs to be done in conjunction 
with having an asylum system that gives--that's efficient and 
that gives responses quickly and makes decisions quickly. It 
provides a safe and legal pathway for people who need 
protection, and therefore, discourages them from taking their 
lives at risk trying to cross the border to get that 
protection. It's absolutely a necessary safety valve and legal 
pathway.
    Unfortunately, the Biden Administration has not yet 
succeeded in rebuilding that program. As you know, the refugee 
resettlement admissions ceiling last year was 125,000, and we 
fell 100,000 short of that.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    Barriers to work authorization have devastating 
consequences for arriving migrants in local communities, which 
is one reason there has been bipartisan support for improving 
access to work permits and addressing lengthy processing 
backlogs. What does Congress and the administration need to do 
to support local employers and improve access to work 
authorization?
    Mr. Hetfield. Well, this is a really vexing problem, where 
asylum seekers are not allowed to accept employment, nor are 
they allowed to receive any assistance while their asylum 
application is pending for a minimum of six months. In many 
cases, it's much, much longer than that.
    So, basically, they have to find a way to support 
themselves and there are no legal means for doing so. So, that 
is a system that is destined to fail.
    H.R. 1325, the Asylum Seeker Work Authorization Act of 
2023, does provide a solution. So, I would urge that this or 
similar measures be supported.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    My final question is, we heard the story of the person who 
murdered Ms. Nobles' daughter. Now, this person, I gather, 
was--came in as an unaccompanied minor. Has any change been 
made between the Trump and Biden Administrations that would 
have affected the ability of an unaccompanied minor to come 
into this country and what he would do afterwards?
    Mr. Hetfield. Many changes have been made by the 
administration; that the Trump Administration was, as you know, 
pushing, pushing minors back at the border. The bottom line is 
that this goes back to the other parts of my testimony, which 
is that we need a system where control does not stop at the 
border, but continues into the United States. So, right now, 
we're not properly resourcing the system to do that, including 
as The New York Times recently exposed, with regard to the 
treatment of unaccompanied minors.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    Thank you. My time has expired. I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Mr. Van Drew?
    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Well, here we go again--addressing the continued policy 
failures of this administration at the border. As our border 
descends further into chaos, I can't help but worry that this 
Nation is becoming increasingly comfortable with accepting 
weakness, not accepting the rule of law, and accepting it all 
as our new normal--an acceptance of weakness that led to the 
highest number of border encounters in a single day ever.
    By the way, there was a comment from somebody from the 
other side and they said that Republicans enjoy this because 
they can use it as political fodder. Let's be clear. The 
Democrats were in control for two years. They had the 
presidency; they had the Senate; they had the House of 
Representatives. They could have done anything. They could have 
made this better. They could have straightened it out. It 
wasn't a split. They didn't; that's the reality.
    So, let's talk about what's really true and let's not just 
talk political talk that doesn't make sense. An acceptance of 
weakness has turned every town in America--from El Paso, Texas, 
to Orange County, California--I'm sorry--New York, into a de 
facto border town.
    An acceptance of weakness that has turned public parks, 
police stations, and school gymnasiums into makeshift shelters. 
Tell me that's good for America. Anybody sitting out there 
right now, you tell me that's good for our America.
    An acceptance of weakness that led to the tragic case of 
Kayla Hamilton, where an MS-13 gang member was allowed into our 
country as a supposedly, quote, ``unaccompanied minor''--
despite a history of criminal activity and of violence. Tell me 
that's good for our America.
    If you have strong borders--if you don't have strong 
borders, excuse me, you are not a strong Nation. Every country 
in the world, basically, has strong borders. Third world 
countries have stronger borders than we do right now.
    If this administration cannot protect its citizens, they 
are not worthy of the authority Americans have trusted them 
with. Personally, I do not think that Secretary Mayorkas is 
worthy and I do not think our President is.
    If you continue to accept the weakness we are witnessing, 
you are surrendering the very foundations of our democracy, the 
disregard for our laws. We're not a Nation of the rule of law 
anymore. Think about the premise in which we argue, discuss, 
and debate this. It's against the law to illegally enter the 
country. It's against the law. You've broken the law. I don't 
understand why the law doesn't matter anymore. Are we a Nation 
of laws or are we not? That's the important question here.
    It's gotten so out of hand that our Secretary Mayorkas is 
celebrating--actually, celebrating--6,300 illegal encounters as 
a good day. That's a good day. Think about that. President 
Obama's Homeland Security Secretary once claimed that a 
thousand encounters a day would be a crisis. Now, 6,300 is a 
good day. Today, it's a triumph.
    This is the acceptance of weakness consuming our Nation, 
and it threatens the safety and well-being of each and every 
American, and we should not tolerate it and we should change 
it. You can be a humane and good country, but still believe in 
the rule of law.
    I wonder how Kayla's family feels about it all. I wonder if 
she thinks this is good.
    I have three quick questions for Chief Scott. With the 
number of crossings our country is experiencing, can Border 
Patrol properly debrief and access the information and 
intentions of every migrant trying to come across our border? 
Yes or no?
    Chief Scott. No.
    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you.
    Do you believe it is easier for a terrorist to get into the 
United States undetected today than five years ago? Yes or no?
    Chief Scott. It definitely is.
    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you.
    As thousands of illegal migrants are accepted into our 
country every day, are there less obvious threats to Americans 
that we aren't noticing yet or are we looking into them enough? 
The question is, are we looking into these threats enough? Yes 
or no?
    Chief Scott. No, the Border Patrol barely has time to 
process who's in custody. They're leaving hundreds of miles of 
border unpatrolled every day. No.
    Mr. Van Drew. Exactly. This is--and thank you, sir. Thank 
you for your work.
    This is a joke. Let's really talk about the real issue. 
It's the rule of law. It's the safety of our people. We're 
breaking the law and we're becoming weaker, and we've got to 
stop it.
    Thank you, Chair. I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair recognizes Mr. Correa of California.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    First, Ms. Nobles, I also want to express my condolences, 
as a fellow parent. I also have a daughter about the same age 
that your daughter. About two years ago, I got a phone call at 
home--I should say, at work--from home. My daughter was all 
alone at home; called me screaming, crying, saying, ``Daddy, 
there's two men in the house.'' Two men were burglarizing the 
house. ``What do I do, Daddy?'' I said, ``Stay by the dogs. Let 
me call 911.'' Those moments of terror, I hate to think what 
would have happened if those German Shepherds weren't there, or 
if our local Santa Ana PD had not gotten there in minutes.
    Ma'am, I can guarantee you that no one condones criminals 
in our streets with or without documents. This is about our 
families and the safety of our families. With or without 
documents, I do not condone anybody in our streets that would 
harm our families.
    Ms. Nobles, my prayers are with your family.
    Mr. Chair, without objection, I'd like to submit for the 
record this Wall Street Journal article entitled, ``What 
Everyone--Except the U.S.--Has Learned About Immigration. 
Washington remains divided over allowing more foreign workers 
while global rivals lower barriers to ease persistent labor 
shortages.''
    Mr. Chair?
    Mr. McClintock. That's right. Without objection.
    Mr. Correa. Mr. Hetfield, if I may, COVID, the aftermath of 
COVID, it seems that the USA is again the world's economic 
locomotive. The world seems to be devastated economically. Even 
the great China, even the great economy is sputtering right 
now.
    I got a phone call the other day from the President of 
Guatemala asking for help with the refugee challenge Guatemala 
is facing. You mentioned Colombia, 2.4 Venezuelan refugees. 
Mexico is having a challenge. This is a worldwide phenomenon.
    You've already addressed it, but I want you to, again, 
repeat, is this a U.S. challenge at this moment? We can look at 
this last two or three years and say this is wrong, but you've 
got to open it up beyond just the United States. It's a 
worldwide phenomenon. Am I correct or not?
    Mr. Hetfield. Yes, you're absolutely correct. The United 
States cannot solve this problem alone, but we're not going 
through it alone, either. The global refugee crisis is over 120 
million people right now.
    Mr. Correa. I'm always tempted to say this is a refugee 
challenge like we haven't seen since World War II, when 60 
million Europeans were on the move. Am I correct in that 
assessment?
    Mr. Hetfield. Yes, the actual number is double that in 
terms of forcibly displaced persons. So, you're not incorrect 
at all. As a proportion of the world population, of course, 
it's smaller, but, in absolute numbers, it's double.
    Mr. Correa. Chief Scott, if I may ask you a question, sir? 
I want to say, first, you are doing an impossible job. Thank 
you for what you're doing.
    The private sector in our society continues to be a magnet 
for workers. Sixty percent of the individuals that come across 
blend into society. They have families they arrive with. They 
blend into society.
    Fifty percent of our farm workers aren't documented. I 
would say that, as long as we don't have immigration reform, 
that it's sensible, that it works for our private sector. The 
need for workers in this country is also a magnet. Would you 
say that or not?
    Chief Scott. I started out in the Immigration and 
Naturalization Service, where I was taught border security 
supports our legal immigration system, so that we can meet 
needs like that. They do go hand-in-hand, but I do point out 
that, if you can't control the flow in any way, then you really 
can't--and any kind of numbers or any kind of decisions you put 
at the other end are irrelevant.
    I do believe this country was based on immigration. I think 
everybody in the Border Patrol supports immigration. That's why 
they got in. We support it legally.
    Mr. Correa. I agree with you. The problem is there is no 
way to get in to work in this country right now. Our economy 
would suffer. Again, 50 percent of our farm workers being 
undocumented. I don't think anybody supports a policy to deport 
those workers because that would affect our food security.
    I look forward to working with all of you in making sure we 
do some common-sense reforms that are good for the American 
economy and the American people.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I yield.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
    Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair?
    Mr. McClintock. For what purpose does the gentlelady seek 
recognition?
    Ms. Jayapal. I have a unanimous consent request to enter 
the following statements into the record: Organizational 
statements from the Center for Gender & Refugee Studies, Church 
World Service, and National Immigration Reform.
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you.
    Mr. McClintock. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Roy of Texas.
    Mr. Roy. I thank the Chair.
    Mr. Scott, we were just told that we're unable to get 
workers into this country. True or false, we get somewhere 
around a million green cards every year and we have seasonal 
workers available to come here and work under our current 
system under the law?
    Chief Scott. That's correct.
    Mr. Roy. Currently, at our border, what do we have right 
now in terms of our ability for Border Patrol to stop the flow 
between ports of entry or is it, in fact, that Border Patrol is 
processing people at the ports of entry?
    Chief Scott. The Border Patrol stays outside the ports of 
entry themselves, but the Border Patrol is, literally, it's 
almost acting as a port because they're processing getaways and 
they're leaving hundreds of miles of border wide open.
    Mr. Roy. For example, at a tent like in Eagle Pass, right, 
where you've got a 10-acre facility where you're processing 
1,500 people a day? Is Border Patrol a part of that operation?
    Chief Scott. Yes, sir. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. As opposed to actually being on the line and being 
able to go patrol the border between the ports of entries, as 
they're supposed to do?
    Chief Scott. Correct. There's been some numbers reported, 
but I think what's important is, even if half of the Border 
Patrol agents are deployed to the field at the beginning of a 
shift, within an hour or so, they're overwhelmed with thousands 
of more illegal aliens, and then, they are processing as well--
leaving the border wide open.
    Mr. Roy. Chief Scott, do we know how much fentanyl or 
dangerous narcotics come in between our ports of entry or 
dangerous individuals?
    Chief Scott. We have no idea, but there's no shortage in 
Chicago or New York.
    Mr. Roy. Right. So, this claim by my colleagues on the 
other side of the aisle that all the fentanyl comes in at the 
ports of entry--we, literally, don't know how much is coming in 
between the ports of entry because the Border Patrol is unable 
to do its job while it's being overwhelmed by the failed 
policies of this administration? Is that true?
    Chief Scott. That is accurate. If you look at the 
statistics, anytime illegal immigration across the border 
between the ports slows down, drug seizures actually increase 
because agents are actually out there identifying it.
    Mr. Van Drew. Supervisor Kenny, your community has been 
dramatically impacted, right, by the number of individuals that 
have been dumped in your community? Can you quickly--it's just 
a matter of time--explain how much that has negatively impacted 
your community?
    Ms. Kenny. I'm from Orangetown in Rockland County. We, 
actually, obtained a restraining to prevent them from coming 
until it goes through the court system. The county just North 
of us has received hundreds and hundreds at this point, and I 
can't speak for them.
    Mr. Roy. You have had hotels filled up with like single, 
often single males that are filling up places, so that needy 
individuals aren't able to get facilities and they aren't able 
to get the resources they need? Is that true?
    Ms. Kenny. Yes. The goal of Mayor Adams was to send 340 
single, adult men to a hotel in my town. It's been put on hold 
by the courts.
    Mr. Roy. Where is your town again?
    Ms. Kenny. In Orangetown, which is 30 miles North of New 
York City.
    Mr. Roy. OK. So, not on the southern border of the United 
States?
    Ms. Kenny. No.
    Mr. Roy. So, this is something we're dealing with. As my 
friend from Arizona, Mr. Biggs, knows, and my friend from 
California, Mr. McClintock, and others know, on the border, we 
deal with it all the time in our communities in South Texas, 
but this is something that the entire country is now dealing 
with.
    I'd like to now move to Ms. Nobles. I cannot possibly put 
into words, Ms. Nobles, what you have experienced as a result 
of the failed policies of this country.
    I would simply ask, as carefully as I can, having met with 
numerous family members who have lost loved ones due to these 
failed policies, whether it's through violence, as you have, 
unfortunately, experienced, or whether it is through, for 
example, fentanyl poisonings that so many of our moms have 
experienced.
    I met with three fentanyl moms just two weeks in Austin, 
Texas. I've met with dozens. I've met with dozens of 
individuals who have lost loved ones, including a family member 
in San Antonio whose son was killed by an illegal immigrant who 
had been here, had been arrested; let go; arrested; let go, and 
then, burned this woman's son to death.
    That's what we have going on in our country, while our 
colleagues on the other side of the aisle bury their head in 
the sand and pretend that somehow, it's compassionate.
    I would just ask you, Ms. Nobles, to explain whether or not 
you've had interactions with other moms and family members who 
have had similar unfortunate experiences as a result of our 
failed policies?
    Ms. Nobles. Unfortunately, I haven't. I haven't seen 
anybody talk about their story or shared anything about what--
because I know that Kayla wasn't the only one. Where are they? 
So, that's why I'm standing up and talking about her story and 
getting her story out. At least, I can speak for my child and 
make sure that I make people aware of what's going on.
    Mr. Roy. Well, Ms. Nobles, I'm going to, after this 
hearing, connect you with angel families who have had a number 
of these experiences that they've put out--with the Vargas 
family in San Antonio who have been dealing with it, with lost 
from these kinds of policies.
    I would just ask, Chief Scott, are the current policies 
stopping the kind of violence that can occur through having, 
for example, in this case, a UAC, an unaccompanied alien child, 
who ended up carrying out this crime that Ms. Nobles had to 
suffer from? I want to ask you that question.
    I also just want to point out before you answer the 
question--and then, I'll yield back--I just came back from the 
Federal District Courthouse because I went over there to 
support Jaime Zapata's family. Because Jaime Zapata was gunned 
down by the cartels in 2011 and the sentencing is going on 
right now, as we speak.
    Cartels are empowered at our border. They are empowered by 
China. They are empowered by our own Federal government failing 
to do its job, and Americans are dying as a result, and so are 
migrants.
    Mr. Scott, if you can answer that question? Then, I'll 
yield back.
    Chief Scott. The current crisis is making it impossible to 
be able to weed out the criminals, especially the UACs, from 
anyone else. The agents don't have time to do face-to-face 
interviews. There's no global, like, data base of criminal 
records.
    Mr. Roy. Thank you, Chief Scott.
    Mr. Biggs. Mr. Chair, I seek unanimous consent on various 
articles--to put a piece from The New York Times, dated April 
23rd, ``Biden Opens a New Back Door on Immigration''; the 
Navajo Nation requesting answers to questions; ``Border 
Crossings Down''--this is a Washington Post article from May 
19th, ``Border Crossings Down, But Many Migrants Released to 
the U.S. to Ease Crowding''; a Breitbart piece entitled, 
``Human Smuggler Drops Preschool-Age Child Over California 
Border Wall,'' dated today's date; as well as a piece dated 
today, ``Georgia Democrat Slams Party for Favoring Migrants 
Over Americans.''
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
    Mr. McClintock. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Jackson Lee of 
Texas.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and to the Ranking 
Member.
    As one would expect, Ms. Nobles--and I'm over here; Ms. 
Nobles, I'm in this direction.
    Ms. Nobles. Oh, yes.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. As a mother, I couldn't say anything less 
than the pain that I know that you're experiencing. I could say 
my heart goes out to you, but I want to acknowledge the pain 
for any mother, any family, to lose their precious child.
    I want your daughter's story to be heard. If we can work in 
a bipartisan way, I will sign onto any bill that enhances her 
heroic story. I think that's what you are surviving on.
    What a young woman--wanting to be independent, working two 
jobs, holding her head up high. A vicious act.
    Forgive me if I say this is not solely immigration. It's 
poor police work, to be honest with you. Frankly, we wanted 
that not to happen. No one on this panel is championing MS-13; 
I can tell you that.
    So, we've got to find a way to decipher, discern, to weed 
out. Because if there is a mother trying to come just to work 
in the fields, I know that may not be the best way for her to 
come, but that is not the MS-13. They don't deserve to be in 
this country, period.
    So, let me just--I don't want to say thank you, because 
you're here in pain. I just want you to know I think her story 
has to be told.
    Thank you for your presence here today.
    Chief, I assume we served overlapping; I'm not sure. What 
years were you? You're retired. So, what years have you served, 
sir?
    Chief Scott. As the Chief, it was 1920, February 2020 until 
August 2021. I was a Border Patrol Agent for over 29 years.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Starting what year?
    Chief Scott. 1992.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Yes. So, you've had several leaders, 
Presidents, and then, of course, Homeland Security came into 
being after 9/11. I was on the Committee in its origins and 
know just about every one of your Border Patrol leaders.
    Would you say that it would be better to approach 
immigration reform, Republicans and Democrats, in a terminology 
that we coined under the late John McCain, comprehensive 
immigration reform, which, in essence, deals with border 
security in the North and the South and recognizing legal 
pathways for entry? Would you accept that would be a better 
approach?
    Chief Scott. I believe border security is exactly like your 
home; it gets overcomplicated a lot of times in the public 
discussion, but it's exactly like your home. We just need 
people to come through the front door in a legal manner. 
Congress gets to pick who those people are, not the Border 
Patrol.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. So, my time is short. I want you to answer 
the question specifically. Comprehensive immigration reform 
with border security and legal pathways, would you accept that?
    Chief Scott. Based on my experience, the border security 
has to come first.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, I can't put words in your mouth, but 
you're not going to get border security coming first. You need 
to be able to balance it. You would not accept a border 
security and recognizing pathways to legal entry?
    Chief Scott. Based on my experience, and looking at 1986 
IRCA, you have to be able to secure the border first--
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, you'll be stuck--
    Chief Scott. --or all the other conversations are 
irrelevant.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Yes, I appreciate that.
    Reasonably, Mr. Hetfield, as you understand, when John 
McCain, the late John McCain--we had a very strong 
comprehensive bill, and it had border security and a legal 
pathway. We get stuck on border security. We're not listening 
to the witnesses here. We're not listening to the New York town 
that is frustrated with what's happening to them--and rightly 
so.
    So, let me just get you to this, espouse, because my time 
is going.
    First, your organization was affiliated with the Tree of 
Life, was it not? Or the attitude of that killer?
    Mr. Hetfield. Yes, I'd rather not discuss the Tree of Life 
because the prosecution is ongoing at this point.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, let me just say, since I went there, 
let me just say that the attitude was that Jews were bringing 
in migrants and immigrants. Was that true?
    Mr. Hetfield. That is correct.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. It resulted in death, did it not?
    Mr. Hetfield. That is correct.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. All right. Let me just get to the point of 
the work that you do. That is, have things changed in the 
hemisphere, so that more refugees are coming and you work with 
refugees to help the United States, so they don't result in 
being lost or being in the wrong direction? As well, I would 
assume that you abhor MS-13 as well? If you can answer those 
two questions, I'd appreciate it.
    Mr. Hetfield. Absolutely and absolutely.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. You've got to say--
    Mr. Hetfield. Yes. Yes, HIAS is entirely focused on legal 
pathways to bring people into the United States, so they do not 
resort to fleeing across borders to seek asylum. We try to 
provide them with safe and legal alternatives to that, and in 
partnership with the U.S. Government and Jewish communities.
    Absolutely, we need a system of control which can identify, 
vet, and detain, and reject and remove people who are a danger 
to the society.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Like MS-13?
    Mr. Hetfield. Yes.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Yes.
    Mr. McClintock. The Chair recognizes Mr. Moore of Alabama.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I yield back.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Certainly, I want to thank all the witnesses for being here 
today.
    I've said this before and I'll say it again--that a closed 
border, a controlled border is actually a compassionate 
border--and not just for the migrants who get turned into 
indentured servants, or worse, but for the Americans that some 
of these illegal aliens harm.
    For example, in my district, the 2nd Congressional District 
of Alabama, a couple of weeks ago, the Autauga County Sheriff 
Department arrested Grevi Zavala, a 29-year-old illegal alien 
from Honduras for the rape of a teenaged girl in Prattville. 
It's alleged that he dragged her into a bathroom in a 
restaurant. Press reports indicate that he entered the United 
States in November 2021 through Texas, using a fake name, but 
was allowed to enter into this country. In addition, according 
to the press reports, he had a criminal record in Honduras. I 
don't know how this is possibly acceptable.
    Ms. Nobles, unfortunately, you and your family know this 
all too well. I am terribly sorry for what happened to you and 
your daughter. I'm a proud father of four. I've got two girls 
and a granddaughter that will be born probably by Friday, I 
understand. That's what the experts are saying. Anyway, we 
should never let this happen.
    So, Mr. Hetfield, I want to go to you initially. You said 
we've got a lot of people coming to this country that are not 
qualified. What do you mean by that?
    Mr. Hetfield. The only way for many people to come into 
this country is through the asylum system. That's the only way 
to be able to not be expeditiously removed at the border, is to 
claim a fear.
    So, of course, people are using that pathway, if they're 
coming here for reasons that do not qualify them for asylum, 
such as they need to support themselves. They're trying to 
escape poverty. They're trying to reunite with family. Which is 
why we need to have an asylum system that functions and 
efficiently determines whether or not somebody has a legitimate 
asylum claim or not.
    Mr. Moore. Mr. Hetfield, let me ask you this: I was in 
Yuma, Arizona. This is our third hearing and we had one in the 
district in Yuma, or actually on the border. The sheriffs 
informed us there that, basically, they're just--the border 
agents have become concierges. They're just giving these people 
a Motion to Appear, an $800 taxpayer-funded subsidy, and a cell 
phone. Then, when we take their calls for court dates, they're 
not--they'll take our phones, but they're not taking our calls.
    Do you find that alarming, that we're just turning people 
loose with very little background checks?
    Mr. Hetfield. I find it very alarming that people are 
getting lost in the system, waiting for years to get an asylum 
hearing. That doesn't work for anybody.
    Mr. Moore. Speaking of lost in the system, we heard a few 
weeks ago that we had lost 85,000 unaccompanied minors. The 
Federal government had shipped them to Google addresses in 
America. Now, it sounds like, based on testimony, that they're 
not all minors and there are actually some of them here doing a 
great deal of harm.
    Mr. Scott, I want to ask you a question really quick. I 
heard prices people had on their heads for coming to this 
country. Just South of the border, the last time I heard, it 
was about six or seven thousand dollars to come of Mexico. 
Further South, the Triangle Nations, it's about nine or ten 
thousand dollars. Then, Syria was $20,000. Russians were paying 
$19,000, and Chinese nationals were paying $80,000. Where is 
that money going, do you think, Mr. Scott?
    Chief Scott. It goes directly to fuel the cartels.
    Mr. Moore. It fuels the cartels. What happens if somebody 
doesn't have the money? Do they actually become indentured 
servants or slaves? Is that what happens?
    Chief Scott. So, that is one of the many things that could 
happen. The prices vary, depending on how much risk you're 
willing to take, how far out in the desert you'll go. So, they 
vary.
    The price also varies if you're willing to do other things. 
So, if you're willing to guide or you're willing to smuggle 
narcotics, or you're willing--
    Mr. Moore. I heard that--that's interesting, Mr. Scott. I 
appreciate you mentioning that they'll actually, if you'll 
backpack that heroin or cocaine or fentanyl, that your passage 
is somewhat considered paid if you're willing to be a drug mule 
rather than a slave. Is that correct?
    Chief Scott. That is how some people cross, yes.
    Mr. Moore. Ms. Nobles, have you heard anything from the 
Biden Administration concerning the loss of your daughter?
    Ms. Nobles. No, I haven't.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair. With that, I'm going to yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
    For what purpose does Ms. Jackson Lee seek recognition?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I'd like to ask unanimous consent that I 
can submit into the record an article, ``The Biden 
Administration To Send 1,500 Troops to the Southern Border,'' 
for support ahead of expected migrants, and also, to have a 
statement that reflects that the numbers have gone down, as it 
relates to those entering the United States at this time. I ask 
unanimous consent.
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
    Mr. McClintock. The Chair recognizes Ms. Ross.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you to all the witnesses, and, in particular, to Ms. 
Nobles for sharing your story. Please know that I join with my 
colleagues in wanting justice for her and for other people who 
have, similarly, lost their lives through senseless--
senseless--acts. At least know we're with you.
    Earlier this spring--and the Ranking Member may have 
brought this up in her opening comments--we traveled to McAllen 
and Brownsville, Texas, two Texas border towns. Our 
conversations with U.S. Customs and Border Protection during 
that visit reinforced my commitment to ensuring that CBP has 
the resources that it needs to strengthen border control.
    Agents we spoke with specifically emphasized the need for 
sophisticated surveillance technology to monitor border 
crossings. They talked about how the cartels had more drones 
and kids on roofs who are operating the drones than the kinds 
of technology that we needed to see people before they get to 
the border and be able to stem that. I see that Chief Scott is 
nodding, as I talked about that.
    During our visit, I was also struck by the reliance of our 
immigration and asylum systems on nonprofits and local 
governments; that they were not getting the support from the 
Federal government or the State governments to do their jobs. 
What goes on in Brownsville, Texas, on the local government tax 
dollar is nothing short of extraordinary, to make sure that 
people who have been allowed to cross the border can get on 
their way quickly, and not be in Brownsville and not be in 
those hotels. They say they don't want people to stay overnight 
in Brownsville. They want to get people to the bus station. 
They want to get people to the airport.
    Now, while their work is admirable, this responsibility 
shouldn't fall solely on NGO's and local governments. State and 
Federal governments need to bolster the resources dedicated to 
responding to this many people who enter the United States 
under asylum claims and through other legal pathways. The 
Federal government must fund the technology that CBP needs and 
the training and the personnel, so that they can do their jobs.
    Immigration is an extremely complex issue, and Democrats 
are pushing for implementation of effective solutions to 
strengthen border security and expand legal pathways to enter 
this country. It is important that we expand legal pathways 
because we simply need the workers.
    I represent North Carolina. I heard from the agriculture 
industry every day. I went to visit a small, family farm two 
weeks ago. No. 1 issue, immigration. Hospitality industry, No. 
1 issue, immigration. Tech industry, No. 1 issue, immigration. 
We need to do both.
    In fact, we need to make sure that our rhetoric doesn't 
make the immigration problems worse. Unfortunately, it's been 
documented that repeated right-wing claims about the border 
being completely open are used on social media by smugglers to 
encourage more people to attempt to come to the United States 
without authorization. We need to have that stopped. We need to 
put aside our partisan blinders and use these hearings, not to 
magnify the problems of our immigration system, but to solve 
them in a bipartisan way.
    With the remaining minute I have, my first question is for 
Mr. Hetfield. Unlike many countries, ours does not have a 
reception system for asylum seekers after they've been 
initially processed by immigration officials at the border and 
allowed to come into our country.
    NGO's and local governments, like Brownsville, Texas, are 
stepping in to fill the gap that the Federal and State 
governments have left. We simply need a more orderly process. I 
wish everybody could see how well Brownsville does its job.
    From your experience, how are these programs contributing 
to a safe and orderly immigration system, and what more can be 
done--in 14 seconds?
    Mr. Hetfield. They're absolutely essential. When I directed 
the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom's study 
on expedited removal a few years ago, we did find that, when 
you provide that kind of counseling, you actually have a very 
high dissolve rate by asylum seekers, because they realize that 
they're actually not eligible for the benefit. So, they 
withdraw their claims. By not having a reception system, you 
are just contributing to having people get lost in the system.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. The Chair recognizes Mr. Nehls of Texas.
    Mr. Nehls. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Ms. Nobles, thank you for your testimony today. I can't 
imagine. I have three daughters--22, 17, and 10. I can't 
imagine what you and your family have been going through. Like 
so many other families across the United States, I'm incredibly 
sorry for your loss.
    Chief Rodney Scott, I thank you for being here.
    I had the opportunity to review the case file. This is the 
case file on this murderer, this--well, I'm going to stop with 
that--on this alleged 17-year-old unaccompanied alien child who 
brutally killed and raped Kayla Hamilton. I know you're 
familiar, sir. You're familiar with the intake forms.
    Record of Deportable/Inadmissible Alien, this is the form 
here. So, I'm going to walk through a few things that I 
noticed, that I saw on this form--that this bad hombre said his 
intended location was Texas. As we know, he went to Maryland. 
He didn't stay in Texas. He didn't stay there very long.
    This bad hombre said he had no funds in his possession, and 
that his father was his method of support. As we know, he 
somehow was moved to live with his aunt.
    This bad hombre said he was claiming credible fear--
credible fear, like everybody up there. We know that a majority 
of those claims are unsubstantiated. I think it's about 10 
percent. Later said on his HHS intake form that he had come to 
work.
    So, he's a liar. He's a bad hombre and a lying one at that.
    The UAC said he had no prior criminal history--no prior 
criminal history. However, after his arrest, Maryland law 
enforcement--think about that. We can't count on the Federal 
government down at the border to make sure that the people 
entering our country are decent people that don't have criminal 
records.
    It took local and State law enforcement in Maryland one 
phone call to El Salvador. That's it. Get on the phone. I call 
El Salvador. I say, ``Hey, let me ask you about this bad hombre 
that entered our country. Has he been arrested?'' They say, 
``Oh, yes. Oh, yes, sir, he's been arrested in El Salvador in 
2020 for his illicit association with MS-13 gangs.''
    Couldn't figure that out down at the border. We've got to 
find out after he kills, rapes, and murders a young woman in 
the United States.
    He said he was 16. He wasn't 16. He had no parole form. You 
don't need to prove your age. You just say, ``I'm 16.''
    We were in a case here a month or so ago about the 
gentleman that comes through. He claims he was a UAC. He goes 
to Florida with his caretaker and butchers the guy in Florida.
    I saw a picture of this guy. He had more chin whiskers than 
the witness next to you. He's 25 years old. He came in as an 
unaccompanied alien child. How does that work? How does that 
happen? How or why don't we have more safety guards, safety 
wheels, down at our southern border?
    So, we were able to establish this man--or, Chief, any of 
the 380,000 UACs that have entered since Joe Biden took 
office--were under the age of 18. How are we able to determine 
whether they're actually truly under 18?
    Chief Scott. We really can't, sir. That's where a seasoned, 
professional agent comes in. When they interview them, a lot of 
those inconsistencies you talked about come up in the story 
immediately. The chaos that we have on the border today 
prevents the agents from having that amount of time. The 
administration is yelling at them to process and move them down 
the assembly line as fast as possible.
    Mr. Nehls. So, when Secretary Mayorkas gets in front of the 
camera and lies to the American people every other day, if not 
daily, and he says these people are betted, is that a true 
statement, sir?
    Chief Scott. They're vetted against a blank sheet of paper. 
There's no global data base to vet them off.
    Mr. Nehls. Yes. What kind of a border--what kind of 
background check is done on these individuals?
    Chief Scott. They're ran through a United States 
Government's NCIC, which runs through criminal data bases. 
Unless the individual has been in the United States, committed 
a crime here before, it's not going to be in that system.
    Mr. Nehls. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. This 
is No. 3, the third hearing on the border. All Joe Biden had to 
do, when he was inaugurated on January 20th--I sat; I went 
there; I respect the office of the President--all he had to do 
was keep his mouth shut. He didn't have to say anything about 
our southern border, and we'd be a much safer country today.
    On March 12, 2021, I have a report. Hold it up. Following a 
reassessment, the CBP Director terminated Title 42 with respect 
to unaccompanied alien children. If I'm understanding this 
correctly, is it true that for the last two years we created a 
blanket waiver to allow anyone claiming to be under 18 into the 
United States, despite their criminal records or gang 
affiliation? Yes or no?
    Chief Scott. I believe the gang affiliation, if they know, 
they could still deport them. For the most part, that--yes.
    Mr. Nehls. Parents let's be clear, MS-13 stands for kill, 
rape, and control. Joe Biden and Secretary Mayorkas are 
allowing potentially 30-year-old gang members into our 
communities, into our schools, and around our kids, where they 
will do the exact damned thing they did to Kayla Hamilton. 
Shame on them, and we must hold them accountable.
    I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. For what purpose does the gentlelady from 
Washington seek recognition?
    Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent that the 
following be made a part of the record.
    This is an email that was sent yesterday by the Department 
of Health and Human Services reminding my colleagues that HHS 
allowed Committee staff an in-camera review of this, the 
individual, the unaccompanied minors' file, with the 
expectation that the Committee would refrain from disclosing 
any nonpublic information it obtained.
    It is imperative that we do not interfere with the 
integrity of criminal proceedings. I would hope that my 
colleagues would not disclose any information that could impact 
the criminal proceedings or Ms. Nobles' ability to get justice 
for her daughter.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentlelady was recognized for a 
unanimous consent request. Without objection.
    Ms. Jayapal. It was a serious violation.
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection, that will be entered 
into the record.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. McClintock. I'll next recognize myself for five 
minutes.
    Supervisor Kenny, again, 3.6 million illegal immigrants 
entering this country over the past 28 months. Gallup, by the 
way, told us last year they're estimating in Latin American and 
the Caribbean alone 42 million people intend to come here now 
that the borders are open.
    What's this doing to the situation in your homeless 
shelters, in your food pantries, and what are you hearing from 
other cities in New York?
    Ms. Kenny. Yes. So, as I've learned in recent weeks, we 
already have a lot of migrants finding their way to Rockland 
County through family and friends. It's already putting a 
burden on our social services in our Rockland county--so much 
so that they recently had to give another million dollars to 
the food pantries. Keeping in mind that Mayor Adams got eight--
I'm sorry. He got a billion dollars from New York State, and he 
is looking to put them in hotels in our town without any 
support or any--
    Mr. McClintock. What are your constituents telling you?
    Ms. Kenny. The constituents have concerns and as you--as I 
sit here today, and I hear this testimony and I understand why. 
There are questions raised about where the individuals are 
going to be vetted and they were told this would be--they would 
be vetted at the border. So, in light of what I'm hearing today 
it gives pause for questions about who should be in our 
community.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
    Chief Scott, one of our colleagues said that you had an 
impossible job. Was your job impossible when we were actually 
enforcing our immigration laws?
    Chief Scott. It was not impossible, and we were getting 
better at it every single day and we had a strategy to actually 
secure the border.
    Mr. McClintock. It is basically becoming impossible since 
Biden changed those policies, is that correct?
    Chief Scott. Correct. The current flow of illegal 
immigration will exceed any ability to be able to secure--
    Mr. McClintock. When Mr. Biden canceled work on the border 
wall did that also cancel work on the technology at the border 
to detect illegal crossing?
    Chief Scott. It did that and it also shut off our new 
communications capability that was being built into the wall 
system as well.
    Mr. McClintock. Under the Immigration and Naturalization 
Act foreign nationals claiming asylum are required to be 
detained until their claim is heard. Are they?
    Chief Scott. No.
    Mr. McClintock. What can you tell us about cartel and gang 
activity being introduced into our country over the past two 
years?
    Chief Scott. So, everything that crosses that southwest 
border now is controlled by the cartels. The cartels control 
the illegal migrant crossings so that they can create these 
gaps in border security and then they smuggle--when I say gaps 
in border security, I mean they overwhelm all the law 
enforcement in the area beyond Border Patrol. Then that opens 
gaps where there's no law enforcement and they bring anything 
they want into the country behind that.
    Even on the U.S. side, if it's narcotics or even aliens, 
they are basically facilitated or guided to their ultimate 
destinations through cartel on this side in very, very, very 
tight ties with many of the gangs, MS-13 and others. Can't 
really tell where the cartel ends and where they don't. It's 
more of a terminology. This is a huge threat and it's gotten 
significantly worse with the open border created.
    Mr. McClintock. So, they are brought in by the cartels to 
whom these migrants pay thousands of thousands of dollars, 
arrive at the border deeply indebted to those cartels, and then 
they are trafficked throughout the country, are they not?
    Chief Scott. They are. I really use--
    Mr. McClintock. Who is doing that trafficking?
    Chief Scott. Again, that's still cartel and that's still 
gang affiliations or anybody--
    Mr. McClintock. Do we not also have a lot of 
nongovernmental organizations that are assisting in 
distributing these migrants across the country?
    Chief Scott. So, yes. So, currently they're getting 
millions of dollars. The nongovernmental organizations are 
getting millions of through FEMA. The people get to choose 
where they go. So, it's not necessarily those nongovernmental 
organizations that are telling them go to New York and hook up 
with smuggler.
    Mr. McClintock. Right.
    Chief Scott. They're just getting the free plane ticket, 
the free care, and the feeding and place to rest for a while.
    Mr. McClintock. Well, free? Nothing is free. Who is paying 
for those plane tickets?
    Chief Scott. You are. It's going through FEMA and its 
basically money being laundered and given to the NGO's to 
support this entire enterprise.
    Mr. McClintock. The Dems tell us this is just a hemispheric 
problem beyond our control, but when we had the Remain in 
Mexico policy and were completing the border wall and were 
enforcing court-ordered deportations didn't illegal immigration 
slow to a trickle?
    Chief Scott. Dramatically. I agree with the colleague to my 
right, when people knew what the parameters were and they knew 
they couldn't defraud the system and get released into the 
United States before a judge adjudicated their case, they 
stopped coming. That reduced flow allowed agents to be more 
effective.
    Mr. McClintock. Ms. Nobles, can you tell us what you 
thought when you found out that the suspect in Kayla's murder 
was found to be an MS-13 gang member and that it was confirmed 
by a simple phone call by the local police department to El 
Salvadoran authorities and then discovered that the Federal 
authorities never bothered to make that call before releasing 
him into the country?
    Ms. Nobles. I was very angry about the whole thing.
    Mr. McClintock. What would you have to say to the 
organizations and officials responsible for the illegal entry 
literally of millions into this country over the past couple of 
years?
    Ms. Nobles. It's unbelievable. Like I'm really upset about 
how it was failed at the border and then allow him to go with 
his aunt. Then all it started right at the border and then it 
just went downhill from there.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Hunt. Or no, Mr. Jordan.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the Chair.
    It seems to me, Chief Scott, that the fundamental question 
that people are asking is why? Why is this happening now at 
this scale? It is certainly the question Ms. Nobles has about 
what happened to her daughter Kayla. It is a question the 
supervisor--it is a question the American people have. Why is 
this happening at this scale? Is it because--well, let me--give 
me an answer, Chief, what you think the why is.
    Chief Scott. The short answer is Catch and Release.
    Chair Jordan. Yes.
    Chief Scott. As long as people know they're going to be 
released into the United States that is the prize. They don't 
care about all the rest of the immigration process.
    Chair Jordan. Until you change that fundamental incentive 
that now exists you will not correct the problem, right?
    Chief Scott. Correct.
    Chair Jordan. This administration decided on day one--I 
think this is so important for everyone to fully--on day one 
they decided they were going to stop building the wall, as you 
just talked about in your question--in response to the Chair. 
They said we will stop building the wall. We are going to end 
Remain in Mexico and we are going to release you once you get 
here. They made that decision on day one. That says it all.
    So, people come, and they say you know what, we won't have 
to wait in Mexico. There is not going to be a wall to get over 
and when we get in, we are going to get released to wherever we 
want to go. Who wouldn't come to the greatest country ever? 
Good people and a lot of bad people. Right?
    It seems to me this administration made an intentional 
decision to put in place policies that have led to everything 
we have been talking about this morning. Do you agree, Chief?
    Chief Scott. I agree with that. All the conversations I was 
part of focused on expediting the release of people into the 
United States. They were adamantly opposed to detention.
    Chair Jordan. When you bring in, as the Chair just talked 
about, two million who come here, are encountered, who are 
released, another 1.5 million that we know came, but we didn't 
actually get--they snuck in somehow, they got in somehow, 32 
million people, there are going to be some and people in there.
    Chief Scott. Statistically that is guaranteed.
    Chair Jordan. Drug dealers, gang members, as Ms. Nobles 
knows about all too well unfortunately, they are going to be 
there. Also, terrorists. What is the number up to now? Like we 
are close to like 100 people who have been on the Terrorist 
Watchlist who have been encountered on our border because of an 
intentional decision the Biden Administration made on January 
20, 2021. Is that accurate, Chief?
    Chief Scott. I believe that is accurate.
    Chair Jordan. What is the solution?
    Chief Scott. The solution is to put back in place 
procedures that make sure that somebody has due process, that 
they don't get the prize until a judge adjudicates the case. 
You have to end Catch and Release. You can do that through 
detention or you can do that through something like the Remain 
in Mexico Program.
    Chair Jordan. We want to let good people come to this 
country. Legitimate asylum seekers, we went to let them in. You 
know what our legislation did? It did what you just described. 
It said when you come to this country you will either have to 
wait in Mexico or we will detain you while we evaluate your 
claim.
    The Democrats say that is radical. That is common sense. If 
we would have kept that policy Kayla may be alive today, but 
because we didn't, all kinds of bad things happened.
    That is what has to happen. Until the country understands 
that, the Democrats understand that--it is just so basic: You 
can't just let people come in the--you have to evaluate their 
claim. While you are doing that they have to be detained or 
they have to remain in some other country before we let them 
come to the United States. That is the answer.
    Chief Scott. That is the answer. It worked.
    Chair Jordan. Worked before. It will work again. We just 
have to have the will to put it back in place so that the bad 
things we see happening all over the country won't continue.
    Chief Scott. Correct.
    Chair Jordan. With that I yield back, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. McClintock. The Chair recognizes Mr. Hunt.
    Mr. Hunt. First, I want to thank the witnesses for being 
here today to discuss this very important topic that is facing 
our Nation.
    To you, ma'am, Ms. Nobles, I am so sorry for your loss. We 
failed you. I am so sorry that you lost your daughter, and I 
can assure you that you are sitting here today means that she 
lives through you and we will do everything in our power to 
make sure that her voice will be heard for the future to stop 
this foolishness from happening again. Thank you for being 
here, ma'am. I really appreciate it.
    Ms. Nobles. Thank you.
    Mr. Hunt. You might be wondering what this photo is behind 
me. This is a photo of a room in a plush New York City tent 
made specifically for migrants. There are Xboxes and flat 
screens everywhere. Every creature comfort that you could think 
of is in this tent. This tent is actually nicer than my room at 
West Point. I wish I had this stuff.
    My colleagues on the left often talk about the long arduous 
journey to get to this country. I ask you this: Why would 
illegal immigrants not make the journey to this country if this 
was going to be the end result?
    In this facility they get free room and board, flat 
screens, three meals a day, free Internet, and phones. This is 
the carrot that is bringing millions of illegal aliens to this 
country at a time when this country can least afford it. For 
the Democrats migrants jump to the top of the list while 
Americans are consistently left behind.
    Mayor Eric Adams never thought the border crisis would make 
it to New York City and now even he has to admit that the Biden 
open border policies have created a, quote, ``real-life 
humanitarian crisis.'' I say again, a real-life humanitarian 
crisis. Welcome to the party, sir.
    Let me show you a real-life humanitarian crisis. It is 
American cities due to Democrat policies. American cities had 
been crumbling long before President Biden opened the border. 
Now, that every town that we know of including New York City is 
a border town, it is about to get worse.
    This is Philadelphia. These are not illegal immigrants. 
These are American cities currently living in abject poverty. 
This situation is about to get worse.
    Greetings from Gary, Indiana. Or is that eastern Ukraine? 
It is hard to say, but I can guarantee you that if this were 
eastern Ukraine the government would be printing as much money 
as possible to help them, but not our own American citizens. 
Not so good for the people of Gary, Indiana. This is not the 
Dust Bowl or the Great Depression. This is yesterday. Our 
situation is about to get worse.
    It has been three months since the train derailment in East 
Palestine and the people of East Palestine don't have the 
necessary resources to rebuild and the community can't even 
drink clean water today. Like Philadelphia and Gary, Indiana, 
East Palestine, Ohio, is part of the forgotten America, the 
Americans left behind as Democrats provide the American dream 
to illegal aliens and not to our fellow Americans. I have got 
news for you: It is going to continue to get worse.
    We have San Mateo, California in California's 15th 
Congressional District. If some of my colleagues would spend 
more time in their districts instead of inside the Beltway, 
they would see the destruction that their policies are causing 
their own districts and their own towns. Perhaps then they 
would have a different position on the southern border. It is 
about to get worse.
    Wait, there is more. This is Redwood City, California. Or 
is it Tent City, California? Does this look like a country that 
is thriving? Does this look like a country that is equipped to 
handle a massive influx of millions more into this country 
illegally? I think not. The situation is only going to get 
worse.
    This is the death of the America dream and it starts with a 
carrot, as I discussed in the very beginning, and ends in 
abject poverty and despair for Americans. It ends in us losing 
control of our sovereign border. It ends with cartels running 
our sovereign border and killing our young people. It ends in 
fentanyl overdoses. It ends in crime.
    I am a military guy by trade. I have never seen a derelict 
of duty like this in my entire life. This is insanity. While we 
owe the American people an apology, we also owe them to do our 
damn jobs.
    Thank you so much for being here.
    With that, I yield back.
    Thank you, ma'am. God bless you.
    Ms. Nobles. Thank you.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair recognizes Mr. Swalwell of California.
    Mr. Swalwell. Thank you, Chair.
    I am proud to represent the 14th Congressional District of 
California. I will tell the colleague of mine who represents 
the 15th that he should probably come and defend his great 
district because our two districts are some of the most 
diverse, wealthiest, most educated places in America, and one 
of the biggest complaints I have from my constituents is it is 
too damn expensive to live there because there is too much 
demand on housing.
    So, we have got a housing crisis. We have got a congestion 
crisis because of traffic. It doesn't look like a place that 
nobody wants to live, but certainly with open hearts and open 
minds we are doing everything we can to address immigration in 
our country.
    What I hear from my colleagues in this hearing is more 
chaos, an appetite not for solutions, but an appetite to pander 
to grievances. They don't want to solve the problem. That is 
not worth anything to them politically. They want to stoke 
fear. When the Border Patrol seizes fentanyl at the border, God 
bless them. Thank them for doing that. They don't celebrate the 
Border Patrol. They try and use that to own the libs, and clap 
back at Joe Biden.
    Where I come from when cops do their job and catch the bad 
guys and take drugs off the street, we thank them. We don't use 
them as political tools because we don't have any ideas or 
solutions when it comes to immigration.
    When they say we are a country of open borders, that 
doesn't recognize the thousands of Border Patrol agents who 
work on the border, work hard every day and are trying to make 
sure we can secure the border. What it does is it invites 
people to believe that the borders are open, and it invites 
more immigration to our country. Again, they don't want to 
solve this problem.
    If they wanted to solve this problem, they would have 
brought to the floor the comprehensive immigration bill from 
2014 where 68 Republican and Democratic senators voted to 
secure the border, to put 20-plus-thousand more border agents 
on the border, to have a pathway for earned citizenship, to 
take care of the dreamers who came here by no fault of their 
own. Republicans and Democrats voted for that. They walked away 
from it. So, this is really just more border theater, not 
border solutions.
    Mr. Hetfield, thank you for being a serious participant in 
this process. I would just like to ask you, if we had passed 
that comprehensive immigration bill, the bipartisan bill back 
in 2014 where the most conservative Members of the Senate 
joined some of the most liberal Members of the Senate, where 
would be today as far as immigration in America?
    Mr. Hetfield. There's no panacea, but we'd be in a much, 
much better place. We would have a fighting chance to address 
this issue. I mean, Congress has not passed immigration reform 
about legal pathways since 1990. We barely had the--we didn't 
have the Internet then, right? Most people didn't have 
computers then. This was a totally different world and that 
illegal pathways have been totally ignored for 33 years.
    Mr. Swalwell. Talk to me about a shortage of labor. I see 
this in all sectors across my district. I see it in childcare, 
I see it in tourism, I see it in hospitality, I see in 
construction. I have got 50-plus wineries in my district. I see 
it with the wineries when harvest comes. What would an earned 
pathway or a skilled workforce pathway mean for addressing 
labor shortages that only lead to every one of my constituents 
having to pay more for the goods and services they consume?
    Mr. Hetfield. Yes, that's exactly right. Like we need legal 
pathways, so that people can take jobs that American citizens 
are not willing to take. There has been no movement in that 
area in decades.
    People are not coming here to bring fentanyl and to kill 
people. They're coming here primarily to work and to seek 
protection. We need a system that actually identifies the 
people that are coming here for legitimate purposes and to give 
them legal pathways to do that and to identify the bad actors. 
We don't have that right now. Our system is totally out of 
control because we have not resourced
--we have not resourced it.
    Mr. Swalwell. Thank you. Yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
    If there is no further business to come before the 
Subcommittee, that will conclude our hearing.
    I would like to thank our witnesses again for appearing 
before the Committee today.
    Without objection, all Members will have five legislative 
days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses 
or additional materials for the record.
    Without objection, the hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:13 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the 
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
Enforcement can be found at the following links: https://
docs.house.gov/
Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=115998.

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