[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




 
                 H.R. 2989, ``SAVE OUR SEQUOIAS ACT''

=======================================================================

                          LEGISLATIVE HEARING

                               before the

                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                        Wednesday, May 10, 2023

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-22

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources





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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                   or
          Committee address: http://naturalresources.house.gov

                               ______
                                 

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

52-270 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2023











                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES

                     BRUCE WESTERMAN, AR, Chairman
                    DOUG LAMBORN, CO, Vice Chairman
                  RAUL M. GRIJALVA, AZ, Ranking Member

Doug Lamborn, CO                    Grace F. Napolitano, CA
Robert J. Wittman, VA		    Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, 
Tom McClintock, CA		        CNMI
Paul Gosar, AZ			    Jared Huffman, CA
Garret Graves, LA		    Ruben Gallego, AZ
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS	    Joe Neguse, CO
Doug LaMalfa, CA		    Mike Levin, CA
Daniel Webster, FL		    Katie Porter, CA
Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon, PR	    Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM
Russ Fulcher, ID		    Melanie A. Stansbury, NM
Pete Stauber, MN		    Mary Sattler Peltola, AK
John R. Curtis, UT		    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, NY
Tom Tiffany, WI			    Kevin Mullin, CA
Jerry Carl, AL			    Val T. Hoyle, OR
Matt Rosendale, MT		    Sydney Kamlager-Dove, CA
Lauren Boebert, CO		    Seth Magaziner, RI
Cliff Bentz, OR			    Nydia M. Velazquez, NY
Jen Kiggans, VA			    Ed Case, HI
Jim Moylan, GU			    Debbie Dingell, MI
Wesley P. Hunt, TX		    Susie Lee, NV
Mike Collins, GA
Anna Paulina Luna, FL
John Duarte, CA
Harriet M. Hageman, WY

                    Vivian Moeglein, Staff Director
                      Tom Connally, Chief Counsel
                 Lora Snyder, Democratic Staff Director
                   http://naturalresources.house.gov

                                 ------                                







                               CONTENTS

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on Wednesday, May 10, 2023..........................     1

Statement of Members:

    McCarthy, Hon. Kevin, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of California, Speaker of the U.S. House of 
      Representatives............................................     1
    Westerman, Hon. Bruce, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Arkansas..........................................     4
    Grijalva, Hon. Raul M., a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Arizona...........................................     6

Statement of Witnesses:

    Moore, Randy, Chief of the Forest Service, U.S. Department of 
      Agriculture, Washington, DC................................     7
        Prepared statement of....................................     9
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    10
    Townsend, Hon. Dennis, Chairman and Supervisor, District 5, 
      Tulare County Board of Supervisors, Visalia, California....    11
        Prepared statement of....................................    12

    Nelson, Joanna, Save the Redwoods League, San Francisco, 
      California.................................................    13
        Prepared statement of....................................    15

    Desai, Neal, National Parks Conservation Association, 
      Washington, DC.............................................    20
        Prepared statement of....................................    22
    Nieto, Hon. Shine, Vice Chairman, Tule River Indian Tribe of 
      California, Porterville, California........................    23
        Prepared statement of....................................    25

Additional Materials Submitted for the Record:

    Submissions for the Record by Representative McCarthy

        Fresno County Board of Supervisors, Letter dated April 
          27, 2023...............................................    54
        Kern County Board of Supervisors, Letter dated April 26, 
          2023...................................................    55
        Tulare County Board of Supervisors, Letter dated April 
          26, 2023...............................................    56

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Ocasio-Cortez

        Sequoia Protection Action Plan...........................    43

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Grijalva

        The Wilderness Society, Letter dated May 10, 2023........    57
                                     








LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON H.R. 2989, TO IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND RESILIENCY 
  OF GIANT SEQUOIAS, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES, ``SAVE OUR SEQUOIAS ACT''

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, May 10, 2023

                     U.S. House of Representatives

                     Committee on Natural Resources

                             Washington, DC

                              ----------                              

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., Room 
1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Bruce Westerman 
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.

    Present: Representatives Westerman, Lamborn, Radewagen, 
LaMalfa, Webster, Fulcher, Stauber, Curtis, Tiffany, Carl, 
Boebert, Bentz, Moylan, Collins, Luna, Duarte, Hageman; 
Grijalva, Huffman, Porter, Leger Fernandez, Peltola, Ocasio-
Cortez, Hoyle, and Kamlager-Dove.

    Also present: Representatives McCarthy; and Peters.

    The Chairman. The Committee on Natural Resources will come 
to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the Committee at any time.
    The Committee is meeting today to hear testimony on H.R. 
2989, the Save Our Sequoias Act.
    I ask unanimous consent that the gentlemen from California, 
Speaker McCarthy, Mr. Peters, and Mr. Panetta be allowed to 
participate in today's hearing from the dais.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    Under Committee Rule 4(f), any oral opening statements at 
hearings are limited to the Chairman and the Ranking Minority 
Member. Therefore, I ask unanimous consent, that all other 
Members' opening statements be made part of the hearing record 
if they are submitted in accordance with Committee Rule 3(o). 
Without objection, so ordered.
    I will now recognize the sponsor of this legislation, 
Speaker Kevin McCarthy, for his statement.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. KEVIN McCARTHY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
  CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, SPEAKER OF THE U.S. 
                    HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

    Speaker McCarthy. Thank you Chairman Westerman for holding 
today's hearing on the Save Our Sequoias, or the SOS Act, which 
Congressman Peters and I introduced earlier this year, along 
with you, and Mr. McClintock, who sits on this Committee.
    Thank you to our witnesses today, and I want to include two 
special ones: Vice Chair Shine Nieto and Tulare County 
Supervisor Dennis Townsend, both of whom are proudly my 
constituents. I am proud of you.
    I am very proud that you traveled all the way from 
California to be with us today, because I know how much you 
care about this issue, as well, and all the work that you have 
done to provide for our sequoias.
    I sit before you today to discuss the importance of Save 
Our Sequoias Act, a piece of legislation that came together 
after working with our constituents, and because Members from 
both sides of the aisle recognized the importance of a robust 
forest management reform to protect our giant sequoias.
    For millennia, giant sequoias have stood as one of the 
Earth's most impressive natural wonders, with some even dating 
back to the time of Christ. But over the last few years, 
devastating wildfires have led to the loss of over 20 percent 
of these iconic trees, which in their own habitats only die 
when they become so large that they would topple over.
    Last year, along with you, Mr. Chairman, we led a 
bipartisan group of Members touring the Giant Sequoia National 
Forest in Tulare, California, so we could see firsthand what 
the fire-related devastation is doing to these groves. As a 
result, the Save Our Sequoias Act was born. I remember on that 
trip that we would get in our cars together, go grove to grove, 
Republicans and Democrats, with a lot of different key 
individuals who care about them, and just studying what is 
causing this devastation. And that is how this bill was 
created.
    I am proud of the fact that we have 50 bipartisan co-
sponsors who have shared commitment to protecting our giant 
sequoias for future generations.
    At its core, the SOS Act does four main things: it improves 
interagency coordination; it uses science to target high-
priority groves for treatment; it expedites environmental 
review for groves' protection projects using streamlined 
emergency procedures already in place; and provides land 
managers with new resources to get the job done.
    As we went through studying the groves, we know what needs 
to be done. It really just needs this legislation to allow the 
individuals to make it happen, to protect it, and especially in 
California, with how intense these fires have come year after 
year. Time is of the essence. And every day we wait can harm 
these giant sequoias even greater.
    One thing I have known is when dead trees and underbrush 
around the giant sequoias fail to be removed, it creates a 
tinderbox serving as a natural accelerant for forest fires, 
acting like a ladder, allowing flames to get into the forest 
canopies, and ultimately threatening those ancient icons. This 
is unacceptable, and I believe this bill actually shows it from 
the very beginning.
    This is not a partisan bill; this is something that 
everybody can work together. And the time to act is actually 
now. Teddy Roosevelt once said, ``A grove of giant redwood 
sequoias should be kept just as we keep a great and beautiful 
cathedral.'' As the conservation president, his statement 
couldn't be more accurate. Perhaps that is why several giant 
sequoias have been planted on the U.S. Capitol grounds in order 
to preserve their history and inspire the awe to all of us.
    This bill is the result of the guidance and recommendations 
of those who know best, folks on the ground who work day in and 
day out with the giant sequoias. And that is why, from Tulare 
County, the Tule River Indian Tribe to the Giant Sequoias 
National Monument Association and others, combined with the 
technical input from the U.S. Forest Service and National Park 
Service, this legislation would not have been possible.
    With that said, what I would like to do in introducing 
this, Mr. Chairman, I have a short video, ``The Last of the 
Monarchs,'' which was produced by Mariposa County Resources 
Conservation District, and I think really drives the point home 
about the need for action now to protect the giant sequoias. If 
I could, I would like to show that video to all. It really sets 
the tone of what we are dealing with.
    The Chairman. And we will play the video now.
    [Video shown.]
    Speaker McCarthy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me 
to show that. Not everybody got to travel out to see the giant 
sequoias. The thing that is really most moving is lots of times 
you will find legislation where one Member will just sit and 
just write it and put it for their district. This is something 
that Members on both sides of the aisle traveled together.
    It is devastating to watch this. They don't grow any other 
place, except on the western side of the Sierras. Longer than 
life of Christ. And every generation has the responsibility to 
keep it. Normally, they just tumble because they become too 
large after 2,500 years, and fall. But in 2 years, we lost 20 
percent of them.
    Everybody, regardless of your philosophical opinion, 
understands how we can save them. We have seen it. And we sat 
down with all the key players. We had the different meetings 
and, collectively, we came up with this legislation. There is 
one thing Congress can do as a whole together, is make sure 
these sequoias are around for the next generation to see them 
and honor them. And if you go through them, they are just so 
iconic and so massive. We have made part of them, some groves 
into a national monument, but that doesn't save them from a 
fire.
    So, what I would really like to do, if we can move this 
bill together, we get it through the Senate, I think 
collectively the whole Committee should go with us. And before 
we send it down to the President we should sign it inside the 
grove, collectively, together, and show the nation that this 
national monument, what these trees mean, and that we don't let 
politics get in the way of doing what is the best use of 
keeping something as iconic as this.
    And if you travel here you will find they are not just 
enjoyed by those in the region. Around the world will come to 
America and just to these groves, just to see them. The Forest 
Service, if you look at their badge, their hat, that is a giant 
sequoia sitting there. And I thought the comment in this video 
at the end, ``Bureaucracy moves slow, fires move fast,'' I 
would like to change that and show the country where our values 
are and where we care most, and that we put them before all 
others.
    So, thank you for the opportunity, thank you for the panel 
today, thank you for those who traveled so far to be a part of 
it that know it. And I feel very honored that we have a 
Chairman that knows more about trees than anyone I have ever 
learned.
    And we have been working on this for quite some time, where 
he would bring experts in. With the National Geographic, we 
watched this tree here, stood next to it. It is on the cover. 
And the difference that everybody can sit together, and how do 
we make sure they save the next. So, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 
Thank you for the opportunity.

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you for 
your leadership on the Save Our Sequoias Act. I know that the 
majority of the groves are actually in your district, and I 
appreciate your work and the bipartisanship.
    [Audio malfunction.]
    The Chairman. And we seem to be having problems with this 
microphone.
    I think this one works better. I now recognize myself for 
an opening statement.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRUCE WESTERMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
              CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS

    The Chairman. The video that we just watched asks whether a 
team of scientists, firefighters, and loggers could come 
together to save the remaining giant sequoias. I would expand 
that question to everyone in this room, and challenge each of 
you to work with us across party lines to prevent these giants 
from going extinct on our watch. I have made statements before 
that this can't happen on our watch. I am going to do 
everything in my power to make sure it doesn't happen on our 
watch.
    When I was in forestry school, we didn't even think a giant 
sequoia could be killed by fire. They were considered virtually 
indestructible when it came to fire. And on the field trip, we 
learned from the Forest Service that the last evidence of one 
of these monarchs being destroyed by fire until recent history 
was in 1297. Think about that: 1297, and then in 2 years we 
lost, as the video said, 10 percent of the monarchs, about 20 
percent of the groves.
    Giant sequoias rely on low-intensity, frequent fire to thin 
ladder fuels and to clean the duff off the forest floor. And in 
fact, that is what happened in these groves for thousands of 
years; they averaged 30 fires per century. That is what the 
academic research shows. But in the last century, they only 
averaged three fires per grove.
    [Chart.]
    The Chairman. You can see that illustrated on this chart. 
And what happened because of that was the shade-tolerant 
species such as the white fir trees and some pine trees that 
normally would be taken out by the frequent fires, they were 
protected from the fire, so they began to grow in the 
understory. And you give these white fir trees or some pine 
trees that much time to grow, even in the shade, and they can 
get to be 100-foot-tall trees. And it creates what we call 
ladder fuel.
    [Slide.]
    The Chairman. And you can see it illustrated greatly. This 
photograph was taken from the same place. You see the giant 
sequoia trees, and you see the white fir trees growing up where 
the tips of the white fir trees are now up into the canopy of 
the giant sequoias. You can see when the fire came through, the 
fire ran up the white fir tree, got into the crown of the 
sequoias, and wiped the sequoias out. If that white fir tree 
wasn't there, the fire would have never got up into the crown.
    If we don't clear out these hazardous fuels, it is not an 
exaggeration to say, as the video said, the giant sequoias 
could disappear in our lifetime. We have all seen pictures of 
giant sequoias wrapped in tin foil during these mega-fires. But 
honestly, that really doesn't do much to help these trees. The 
bark on some of these trees is 2 feet thick. God made these 
trees insulated from fire. They don't really need foil. But we 
go to great efforts to try to save these trees.
    And you can see what happens when the fire is coming. The 
firefighters go in and they start clearing the underbrush from 
around the sequoias. But the thing they do even more than that, 
that you will see in the next picture is they cut down the 
white fir trees that are growing up next to the sequoias. And I 
guess we don't have a picture of that.
    But keep in mind, they are not completing a NEPA analysis 
before any of this. That is the problem: We know what needs to 
be done, but we are only doing this work reactively, instead of 
proactively. We need to go in and do the work proactively 
before the fires get there.
    When you actually go out to these groves like we did on the 
bipartisan congressional delegation last year, as the Speaker 
talked about, there is an overwhelming consensus that we need 
to rapidly increase the pace and scale of forest management in 
and around these groves, and we need to do it now.
    When we visited the giant sequoias, we hosted a roundtable 
with many of the panelists you see here today, and everyone 
said the exact same thing. They said funding is a problem, but 
so are lengthy reviews under NEPA. There is no place to put 
hazardous fuels, once they are removed, and the land managers 
can improve their communication and collaboration. Those are 
the problems that we heard voiced.
    After these conversations on the ground, we created a 
comprehensive solution that rose to the occasion and treated 
this crisis like what it truly is, and that is an emergency. 
The bipartisan Save Our Sequoias Act will codify emergency 
actions, provide the necessary funding to complete the work, 
and enhance the coordination between the Federal, state, 
tribal, local, and private managers that all have a stake in 
the future of our giant sequoias.
    It is not every day that you see 50 bipartisan co-sponsors 
on a bill and more than 100 organizations supporting it, 
ranging from the National Congress of American Indians, to 
grassroots wildland firefighters, to the California Forestry 
Association. I hope that after today's hearing, Members on both 
sides of our dais will consider co-sponsoring this important 
piece of legislation because we need to ask ourselves if we 
want to stop the long-term damage from catastrophic wildfires. 
If we don't want to do that, then we need to support this bill.
    Again, I want to thank my friends and colleagues who are 
co-sponsoring this legislation. I again want to recognize 
Speaker McCarthy and Representative Peters, who are co-leads of 
the legislation, who are about as passionate about giant 
sequoias as I am and many others in this room are.
    Again, these trees only grow on 37,000 acres in California. 
They have withstood fires for millennia, and in the blink of an 
eye we could lose them all.
    Henry Ford once said that failure is an opportunity to 
begin again more intelligently. The Save Our Sequoias Act is an 
opportunity to begin managing giant sequoias more 
intelligently.
    I thank our witnesses for being here today, and I look 
forward to hearing their expert testimony.
    I indulged myself with some extra time, and I recognize the 
Ranking Member, Mr. Grijalva, for an opening statement.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. RAUL M. GRIJALVA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
               CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

    Mr. Grijalva. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you very 
much. I appreciate you holding this hearing on a very, very 
important topic.
    It is encouraging to see so much attention, passion, and 
effort to preserve native plants and protect our public lands 
from the worst effects of climate change. We don't have 
sequoias in the Sonoran Desert, but we do have giant saguaro 
cacti, another iconic plant species that is threatened by the 
climate crisis and climate change. Today's hearing should mark 
the beginning of our work to protect public lands, advance 
sensible natural climate solutions, and mitigate the worst 
effects of climate crisis.
    When President Clinton designated the Giant Sequoia 
National Monument over 20 years ago, he said, and I quote, ``We 
are here because we recognize that these trees, though they 
live to be very old and grow very large, like life itself, are 
still fragile.'' He was right. And as we see now, the hotter 
temperatures and prolonged periods of drought brought on by 
climate change are creating conditions that even long-living, 
fire-adapted giant sequoias are unable to withstand.
    Fortunately, land managers are working around the clock to 
restore fire and ecological balance to these ancient tree 
groves. The Giant Sequoias Lands Coalition, for one, has 
treated more than 6,000 acres of sequoia groves in just the 
last year alone. That is one-fifth of all existing groves. And 
at Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks, land managers have 
a plan to protect nearly all of the groves within the next 3 
years. That doesn't sound to me like land managers who are 
sitting by idly waiting for the next large wildfire to occur.
    I should mention that all this work is being done in 
compliance with our environmental laws, including NEPA, 
Endangered Species, and the National Historic Preservation Act. 
These laws are working exactly as intended, providing enough 
flexibility to expedite restoration during a legitimate 
emergency, while also preventing undue consequences.
    Saving our sequoias doesn't have to mean selling out our 
environmental laws. Senator Feinstein and Senator Padilla from 
California knew that when they introduced a companion last 
Congress. They didn't attack environmental laws in that 
companion. The National Park Service and the Forest Service 
simply need the funding and the staff to do the job well.
    To that end, I am genuinely encouraged to see that this 
bill authorizes $200 million over the next 7 years, but I am a 
little bit puzzled. Under Republicans' own House Rules, any new 
program or funding has to be offset by cutting a program or 
funding elsewhere, but I don't see that offset anywhere in this 
legislation. Democratic bills have been blocked from hearings 
and markups for those very same reasons, so it is interesting 
to see if the Speaker's bill here today, a bill that violates 
their own rules, will continue. This certainly is a 
contradiction, and I think that contradiction warrants 
discussion.
    Another notable oversight worth pointing out is that over 
half of the existing giant sequoia groves are found in national 
parks, yet the Majority didn't invite the National Park Service 
to join us today. In their absence, we are fortunate to have 
Neal Desai from the National Parks Conservation Association, 
who can help us shed some light on the agency's ongoing efforts 
to steward our national parks and protect these giant trees.
    I hope that as the Committee moves forward on this 
legislation, we are able to do it in a truly bipartisan manner, 
not only incorporating the perspectives of all the relevant 
Federal land managers, but also that it does not set any 
dangerous precedents. I look forward to this hearing, and from 
all the witnesses testifying today, and welcome you to the 
Committee along with the Chairman.
    I yield back.

    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Grijalva, and we 
will now move on to witness testimony.
    Let me remind the witnesses that under Committee Rules, you 
must limit your oral statements to 5 minutes, but your entire 
statement will appear in the hearing record.
    To begin our testimony, please press the ``on'' button on 
the microphone.
    We use timing lights. When you begin, the light will turn 
green. At the end of 5 minutes, the light will turn red, and I 
will ask you to please complete your statement.
    I would now like to introduce Mr. Randy Moore, who is the 
Chief of the United States Forest Service.
    Chief Moore, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF RANDY MOORE, CHIEF OF THE FOREST SERVICE, U.S. 
           DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Moore. Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, and 
members of the Committee, thank you for this opportunity to 
testify on the Save Our Sequoias Act.
    Prior to becoming Chief nearly 14 years ago, I spent about 
that amount of time as Regional Forester in the Pacific 
Southwest Region. This region includes California, Hawaii, and 
the affiliated Pacific Islands. I have seen firsthand the 
destruction that wildfires have on communities, infrastructure, 
and natural resources such as these magnificent groves.
    More than 100 years of fire exclusion, along with extensive 
drought, have left the great giant sequoia grove extremely 
vulnerable to wildfire. In the last 2 years alone, wildfires 
have destroyed nearly one-fifth of all giant sequoias. The last 
recorded evidence of this level of extensive giant sequoia 
mortality occurred over seven centuries ago. We can no longer 
stand by and watch as these American icons are lost to 
destructive wildfires.
    Last July, the Forest Service took extraordinary actions to 
allow immediate implementation of the fuels reduction 
treatments to reduce wildfire risk, particularly those that 
threaten the groves. We initiated these treatments utilizing 
existing authorities under the National Environmental Policy 
Act. The emergency fuels treatment encompasses over 13,000 
acres that will reduce wildfire risk to 12 giant sequoia groves 
by removing surface and ladder fuels.
    Environmental reviews required under NEPA have already been 
initiated for most of the planned treatments. Since approving 
this action, we have conducted work in 9 of the 12 groves, 
including removal of hazardous fuels from around nearly 4,500 
of those monarchs, treatments of over 1,500 acres through 
mechanical thinning and prescribed burning to reduce fuel 
loads.
    Our work in the groves continues, including prescribed 
burns planned in the fall of this year. This work is made 
possible through funding from the Bipartisan Infrastructure 
Law, as well as appropriations from Congress. The intent is to 
complete treatments by 2023, but some may continue through to 
the end of 2024.
    In addition to the agency's work in the sequoia groves, the 
Forest Service is using the emergency authorities found in the 
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to take urgent actions in other 
areas of the National Forest System. Six projects have already 
been approved on this authority to protect public health and 
safety, critical infrastructure, and natural resources. These 
vegetation management projects are focused on increasing the 
resiliency of communities and forest landscapes to wildfires, 
also decreasing the impacts of wildfires within the wildland-
urban interface, allowing for more effective and safe responses 
to wildfires.
    The Forest Service expects to continue to strategically and 
thoughtfully use its suite of emergency authorities to 
accelerate fuel and forest health treatments across a variety 
of landscapes to address the wildfire crisis.
    Now, in regards to the Save Our Sequoias Act, the bill 
provides the USDA and the Department of the Interior 
administrative tools and procedures to address threats facing 
giant sequoias. The bill includes establishing a shared 
stewardship agreement for giant sequoias to enhance 
coordination with our partners, certifying the Giant Sequoias 
Lands Coalition to assess, prioritize, and inform forest 
management projects, and establishing protection projects with 
the goal of expediting forest restoration projects by 
codifying, streamlining existing and emergency procedures.
    The bill also directs USDA, DOI, and signatories of the 
Shared Stewardship Agreement to jointly develop and implement a 
Giant Sequoia Reforestation and Rehabilitation Strategy.
    In addition, the bill establishes a new grant program to 
advance, facilitate, or improve giant sequoia health and 
resiliency through Good Neighbor and also the Healthy Forest 
Restoration Act authorities.
    Now, while USDA has concerns with several aspects of the 
legislation as written, we appreciate the intent of the Save 
Our Sequoias Act, and we look forward to a continued discussion 
with the Committee and the bill sponsors on ways to expedite 
this important work.
    In closing, I want to reiterate that the agency's 
commitment of treating the situation facing the sequoias as the 
emergency that it is. We are very grateful to Congress in 
supporting our work to protect these national treasures.
    Thank you, and I welcome any questions you may have.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Moore follows:]
 Prepared Statement of Chief, Randy Moore, United States Department of 
                      Agriculture--Forest Service
    Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, and Members of the 
Committee, thank you for the opportunity to present the views of the 
U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) on the Save Our Sequoias Act 
under the jurisdiction of the USDA Forest Service (Forest Service).
    The Save Our Sequoias Act provides the USDA and the Department of 
the Interior (DOI) administrative tools and procedures to help address 
threats facing giant sequoias. The bill directs DOI to enter into a 
shared stewardship agreement for giant sequoias with USDA, the State of 
California, and the Tule River Indian Tribe to enhance coordination, 
conduct Protection Projects, and certify the Giant Sequoia Lands 
Coalition. This Coalition is directed to carry out a Giant Sequoia 
Health and Resiliency Assessment to prioritize and inform forest 
management projects, track project implementation, and study giant 
sequoia health and resiliency over time. In addition, this bill 
provides for the establishment of Protection Projects to respond to the 
threat of wildfires, insects, and drought to giant sequoias, with the 
goal of expediting forest restoration projects by codifying and 
streamlining existing emergency procedures.
    The bill directs USDA and DOI and signatories of the shared 
stewardship agreement to jointly develop and implement the Giant 
Sequoia Reforestation and Rehabilitation Strategy to enhance the 
reforestation and rehabilitation of giant sequoia groves. The bill also 
establishes a Giant Sequoia Strike Team to assist USDA and DOI with the 
implementation of the giant sequoia emergency response and Giant 
Sequoia Reforestation and Rehabilitation Strategy. And finally, the 
bill directs DOI, in consultation with other parties of the shared 
stewardship agreement, to establish a new grant program to advance, 
facilitate, or improve giant sequoia health and resiliency.
    Additionally, the bill amends the good neighbor authority, (Section 
8206 of the Agricultural Act of 2014 (16 U.S.C. 2113a)), to add 
activities related to the Save Our Sequoias Act, including authorizing 
an Indian tribe to retain receipts from the sale of National Forest 
System timber to conduct additional authorized watershed restoration 
work. The bill also amends Section 604(a)(2) of the Healthy Forests 
Restoration Act of 2003 (16 U.S.C. 6591c(c)), adding language to 
promote the health and resiliency of giant sequoias. Finally, the bill 
establishes the Giant Sequoia Emergency Protection Program and Fund by 
amending Chapter 1011 of title 54, United States Code.
    Since 2015, wildfires have caused significant destruction of the 
giant sequoia groves and have destroyed nearly one-fifth of all giant 
sequoias in two recent fire seasons. In July 2022, the Forest Service 
initiated emergency fuels reduction treatments under 36 CFR 220.4(b) to 
provide for the long-term survival of giant sequoia groves against 
immediate wildfire threats. These actions make use of a portion of the 
agency's existing flexible authorities under its National Environmental 
Policy Act (NEPA) implementing regulations to conduct emergency fuels 
treatments as expeditiously as possible. The agency is working to do 
more to reduce risks to giant sequoias using all the tools and 
flexibilities available. These emergency actions the agency is already 
taking to reduce fuels before a wildfire occurs will help protect 
unburned giant sequoia groves in high-severity wildfires.
    The emergency fuels treatments encompass approximately 13,377 acres 
on National Forest System lands that will reduce the wildfire risk to 
12 giant sequoia groves by removing surface and ladder fuels. These 
treatments include hand cutting of small trees, mechanical removal of 
trees, application of borate on green stumps, pulling duff away from 
the base of large giant sequoias and prescribed burning.
    Thus far, work has been accomplished in 9 of the 12 groves; 4,442 
Giant Sequoias have been treated for fuel reduction; approximately 
1,531 total acres have been treated; and crews have begun to burn 7,600 
piles, with over 2,200 piles already burned in 4 groves. Additionally, 
a Giant Sequoias Emergency Response Integrated Resource Service 
Contract has been awarded to three contractors for five groves.
    Environmental reviews required under NEPA have already been 
initiated for most of the planned treatments. With the emergency 
action, giant sequoias could receive accelerated protection by as much 
as 9 to 12 months earlier in most groves and years earlier in other 
groves. The intent is to complete most treatments by the end of 2023, 
but some may continue through the end of 2024. This work is made 
possible through funds from President Biden's Infrastructure Investment 
and Jobs Act, also known as the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and 
appropriations from Congress and using existing NEPA flexibility.
    In addition to the agency's work in the sequoia groves, the Forest 
Service is using the additional authorities found under Section 40807 
of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to take emergency actions to 
protect public health and safety, critical infrastructure, and natural 
resources on other areas of the National Forest System. Six projects 
have already been approved under this authority. These vegetation 
management projects are focused generally on increasing the resiliency 
of communities and forest landscapes to wildfire, decreasing the 
impacts of wildfires within the wildland urban interface, and allowing 
for an effective and safe response to wildfires. The Forest Service 
expects to continue to strategically and thoughtfully use its suite of 
emergency authorities to accelerate fuels and forest health treatments 
across a variety of landscapes.
    The emergency facing giant sequoias is unprecedented and USDA is 
already exercising our considerable flexibilities under the current 
suite of management authorities provided by Congress to reduce the risk 
to giant sequoias. While USDA has concerns with several aspects of the 
legislation as written, including concerns about duplication of 
existing authorities and timing requirements in certain provisions, we 
appreciate the intent of the Save Our Sequoias Act and looks forward to 
continued discussions with the Committee and bill sponsors on ways to 
expedite this important work.

                                 ______
                                 

Questions Submitted for the Record to Chief Moore, Forest Service, U.S. 
                       Department of Agriculture

Mr. Moore did not submit responses to the Committee by the appropriate 
deadline for inclusion in the printed record.

            Questions Submitted by Representative Westerman
    Question 1. Chief Moore, this legislation would codify existing 
agency emergency authorities for the Giant Sequoia groves. What are the 
benefits of statutorily codifying administrative authorities?

                                 ______
                                 

    The Chairman. Thank you, Chief Moore, and thank you to you 
and folks at the Forest Service who have been doing great work 
with the resources you have to get on the ground and work on 
this problem.
    I now recognize the Honorable Dennis Townsend, the Chairman 
and Supervisor of District 5 of the Tulare County Board of 
Supervisors.
    You are recognized for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. DENNIS TOWNSEND, CHAIRMAN AND SUPERVISOR, 
   DISTRICT 5, TULARE COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, VISALIA, 
                           CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Townsend. Thank you, Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member 
Grijalva, and members of the Committee. It really is an honor 
and a privilege to be here today. Thank you for inviting me to 
discuss this topic that is really dear to me and my community: 
protecting our nation's giant sequoia groves.
    I am Dennis Townsend. I am the Chair of the Tulare County 
Board of Supervisors. I also serve on committees on environment 
and land use with the rural county representatives of 
California, the California State Association of Counties, and 
the National Association of Counties.
    Many of these groves that we are talking about, including 
those in the Giant Sequoia National Monument, are in my 
supervisorial district. And what we are discussing today is 
quite literally in my backyard. I live about 200 feet from 
where the road closures were and the evacuation orders on the 
last 2 big fires. So, this is truly personal to me. It is not 
just a theoretical public policy discussion.
    We are living with the consequence of decades of failed 
forest management policies, although well-meaning policies. In 
1994, House hearings to consider establishment of the Giant 
Sequoia National Monument, locals from my area who actually 
live in Springville were here to testify, and they actually 
warned that if we changed to a passive forest management policy 
at that point in time, that we would see devastating fires in 
the upcoming years, exactly as what we have seen.
    We also created a video, it is in the background here that 
you are seeing, and this shows the stark contrast between a 
portion of the forest which is in state management and county 
management, and the Forest Service property after the Sequoia 
Complex Fire. I want you to note, when you see it, the 
intensity of the fire on the ring doorbell footage from the 
mountains just above my home.
    [Video shown.]
    Mr. Townsend. Tulare County is roughly the size of the 
state of Connecticut, and about 50 percent of its land mass is 
owned by the Federal Government. We are home to about 60 of the 
giant sequoia groves which contain the vast majority of the 
giant sequoia trees in the world today. The sequoias have been 
threatened by drought, by the related bark beetle infestation, 
and high severity fire.
    Over the past decade, wildfires have destroyed giant 
sequoia groves, critical habitat, and communities. More than 85 
percent of all giant sequoia grove acreage across the Sierra 
Nevada has burned in wildfires since 2015. Within that burn 
scar, 20 percent of the world's mature giant sequoias were lost 
in the Sequoia Complex Fire and Windy Fires alone, 20 percent, 
one-fifth. I really could not believe that statistic when I 
first heard that. And as has been mentioned by Chief Moore and 
also Chairman Westerman, the last recorded giant sequoia kill 
from wildfire was in 1297 AD.
    These iconic, majestic giants are simply irreplaceable in 
our lifetime. We cannot continue to steward them the way that 
we have been stewarding them for the last few decades, and have 
the possibility of losing so many more. High-severity fire is 
caused by the accumulation of fuels, a result of overly dense 
forests, and suppression of naturally occurring wildfires and 
high tree mortality. While the U.S. Forest Service has 
committed to change, and Congress has provided some tools, the 
management reality on the ground remains vastly unchanged, as 
is shown in these fires.
    NEPA and ESA reform are paramount to successfully managing 
our forests. In 2020, the U.S. Forest Service received a 
streamlined categorical exemption for hazard tree removal, but 
are not utilizing all these exemptions on the SQF and Windy 
Fire burn scars for fear of litigation. Organizations use NEPA 
and ESA to litigate projects that protect and improve critical 
ecosystems. This is counter to the intent of both of those 
Acts. I was personally involved in that roundtable that was 
mentioned, and I was amazed that all of those various 
organizations and people that are in this Committee all agree 
that what we have been doing for the last several decades is 
not working.
    But the type of management that we are talking about is 
actually possible. Look at Balch Park in Tulare County. Look at 
the Mountain Home Demonstration State Forest. They have more 
than 4,500 old-growth giant sequoias, and they were spared in 
these fires. You can hardly see the impact of the fires because 
of prescribed burning, because of allowing harvesting of timber 
and biomass products. And it is critical to protecting these.
    So, if we can't work together to get this done and protect 
our national treasures, these 2,000 to 3,000-year-old giant 
sequoias, then what can we get done?
    And by the way, we can do this.
    I give this legislation our full support for Tulare County, 
and I encourage this Committee to get it passed and get it 
operative as soon as you can.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to speak to you today.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Townsend follows:]

Prepared Statement of Dennis Townsend, Chairman, Tulare County Board of 
                              Supervisors
    Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva and Members of the 
Committee, thank you for inviting me to discuss a topic that is dear to 
me and my community: protecting our nation's Giant Sequoia groves. I am 
Dennis Townsend and I'm here in my capacity as Chair of the Tulare 
County Board of Supervisors. Many of the groves--including those in the 
Giant Sequoia National Monument--are in my supervisorial district. What 
we are discussing is, quite literally, in my ``backyard.'' This is 
truly personal and not a distant or theoretical public policy 
discussion. We are living with the consequences of decades of failed 
federal forest management policies.
    The video which you see highlights the stark contrast between our 
state demonstration forest and our national forest after a wildfire 
burned through the area.
    Tulare County is roughly the size of the state of Connecticut with 
approximately 50% of its land mass owned by the Federal Government. We 
are home to about 60 Giant Sequoia Groves which contain the vast 
majority of the Giant Sequoia trees in the world today. Hundreds of 
thousands of people visit each year to experience them. Historically, 
these Federal lands also produced a vibrant timber industry. This 
coupled with tourism played a key role in Tulare County's economy.
    Giant Sequoias, and their mixed conifer ecosystems, are threatened 
by drought, the related bark beetle infestation, and high-severity 
fire. Over the past decade, devastating wildfires have destroyed Giant 
Sequoia groves, critical habitat, and communities. More than eighty-
five (85) percent of all Giant Sequoia grove acreage across the Sierra 
Nevada has burned in wildfires between 2015 and 2021, compared to only 
one quarter in the preceding century. Within that eighty-five (85) 
percent burn scar, twenty (20) percent of the world's mature giant 
Sequoias were lost in SQF and Windy fires alone.
    The property and economic losses experienced are significant but, 
losing these national treasures, these Monarch Giant Sequoia trees, far 
exceeds all these losses. These majestic Giants are simply 
irreplaceable in our lifetime.
    High severity fire is caused by the accumulation of fuels coupled 
with severe droughts. High accumulations of fuels are a result of 
overly dense forests the result from the suppression of naturally 
occurring wildfires over the past 130 years, and high tree mortality in 
recent years. While the US Forest Service has commited to change, and 
Congress has provided some tools to facilitate that change, the on-the-
ground reality remains vastly unchanged. The most recent wildfires 
prove this.
    NEPA and ESA reform are paramount to successfully managing today's 
forests. In 2020 the US Forest Service received a streamlined 
categorical exemption for hazard tree removal but are not utilizing 
this exemption on the SQF and Windy Fire burn scars for fear of 
litigation. Organizations use NEPA and the ESA to litigate projects 
that protect and improve critical ecosystem infrastructure, which is 
counter to the intent of both Acts.
    Much of Tulare County's economic infrastructure supporting forest 
products is shuttered or limited. Tulare County once had three active 
sawmills, but now there is only one with limited capacity. The result 
is scores of log decks waiting to be transported to market. There are 
currently log decks from the 2016 Cedar fire still waiting to be moved 
to market, despite some species becoming unmarketable two years after 
they are harvested.
    Tulare County has experienced detrimental impacts to communities, 
resident's quality of life, economy, and critical environmental 
infrastructure from catastrophic wildfires. Our County has been covered 
in smoke for the past 6 summers due to wildfires that have cost us 
about 20% of the world's mature Giant Sequoias. These will not be 
replaced in our lifetimes and, in fact, cannot be replaced for 
generations. I was personally involved in a round table discussion with 
environmental groups, firefighters, loggers, Forest Service officials, 
residents, hunters, fishermen, wildlife enthusiasts, local, state, 
tribal and federal representatives from both sides of the isle. I was 
amazed that there was total agreement that what we have been doing is 
not working. There is no controversy about this bill's language with 
that group. That is very uncommon today and highlights the need for 
this legislation.
    This type of management can be done. Visit our County's Balch Park 
and its Giant Sequoia stands. Visit Cal-Fire's Mountain Home 
Demonstration State Forest which has several of the largest and oldest 
Giant Sequoia trees in the world. More than 4,500 old-growth Giant 
Sequoias are being protected through active management of the mixed 
conifer forest that surrounds them.
    A full toolbox must be provided to the Forest Service and others to 
achieve active forest management, reduce wildfire risk and create 
healthy ecosystems. Returning prescribed fire to the land, allowing 
mechanical operations where effective and efficient and with proper 
oversight, and utilizing forest products to remove marketable material 
off the land are critical in protecting these Giants.
    If we can't work together to get this done and protect our national 
treasures, these Giant Sequoias, then what can we ever get done? This 
legislation benefits everyone, and no one loses. On behalf of Tulare 
County and our residents, I give this legislation our full support and 
endorsement and urge this Committee to get it passed and operative as 
soon as you possibly can.
    It has been an honor and privilege to address you today. Thank you.

                                 ______
                                 

    The Chairman. Thank you, Supervisor Townsend. I now will 
recognize Dr. Joanna Nelson, who is the Director of Science and 
Conservation Planning for the Save the Redwoods League.
    You are recognized for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF JOANNA NELSON, SAVE THE REDWOODS LEAGUE, SAN 
                     FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

    Dr. Nelson. Thank you, Chair Westerman and Ranking Member 
Grijalva, members of the Committee for the opportunity to 
contribute today. I am Dr. Joanna Nelson, Director of Science 
and Conservation Planning for Save the Redwoods League.
    Our non-profit is dedicated to protecting redwoods, 
including the globally unique giant sequoias, the world's 
largest and among the oldest trees, which can survive more than 
3,000 years and provide places of awe, beauty, and delight. The 
League supports efforts to protect giant sequoias from the 
threats of wildfire and climate change, and the Save Our 
Sequoias Act is such an effort. We look forward to working with 
the Committee and the bill's co-sponsors to enact the best 
possible legislation to ensure the future of giant sequoias.
    Today, we are hearing about the challenges of wildfires 
exacerbated by drought, climate change, and practices of fire 
exclusion, which are occurring at a frequency and severity 
that, if allowed to continue at the current rate, could wipe 
out our irreplaceable and magnificent giant sequoia groves. We 
have heard from some of our other panelists about the 
remarkable losses of nearly 20 percent of the largest, oldest 
giant sequoia, not all giant sequoia, but just the largest and 
oldest trees in only 14 months across the 2020 and 2021 fire 
seasons.
    We are short on time in this emergency. We also know what 
to do to meet this emergency. There is substantial evidence 
that active forest management reduces the risk of giant sequoia 
mortality in wildfire. In addition to reporting on the 
scientific literature, as we did in our written testimony, we 
at the League can report on what we have seen on the ground 
that works through some difficult recent years of wildfire. We 
offer four examples.
    In the 2021 KNP Fire in Sequoia and Kings Canyon National 
Park in Giant Forest, wildfire burned into the grove with high 
energy. But once it reached areas that had previous repeated 
prescribed burns, flame lengths decreased and firefighters were 
able to put it out.
    In the same fire in Redwood Mountain Grove, previously 
treated areas had low to moderate severity fire effects. In 
contrast, areas without a history of prescribed fire burned at 
high severity, and that is in a map in our written testimony.
    In the 2021 Windy Fire in Sequoia National Forest, on the 
Trail of 100 Giants, a highly-visited loop in the Long Meadow 
Grove, there was previous treatment with thinning and pile 
burning. Although firefighters were needed in the grove to 
protect individual trees, giant sequoias, the area came through 
fire with low mortality.
    And fourth, in the Mariposa Grove of Yosemite National Park 
in the 2022 Washburn Fire, that wildfire met the perimeter of a 
2017 prescribed burn, and did not carry.
    With promoting solutions we would like to share the top 
three here. As with other crises, we need to go directly to the 
root causes, particularly two in tandem: climate change due to 
the burning of fossil fuels and policies of fire exclusion for 
over a century that have led to overly dense forests.
    I will add that these policies of fire exclusion have 
included prohibiting Indigenous burning and Indigenous 
genocide.
    As a society in the United States and here in California--I 
know we are here in DC, thinking about California--we need to 
redouble our climate action on all fronts and address the 
overly high densities of forests with active management.
    Of our first solution, we must allocate the funding and 
resources needed to conduct fuel reduction treatments based on 
civic, cultural, and ecological goals, prescribed burns, and 
cultural burns led by Indigenous practitioners in our most at-
risk groves. We need to continue until treatments are completed 
in every grove, and then sustain consistent cycles of fuels 
management to ensure resilience into the future.
    As Chief Moore mentioned, we have started with emergency 
declarations for 23 groves. There are approximately 78 groves, 
so we need to keep going.
    We need more time in the calendar year, where forest 
treatments, pile burning, and broadcast burning is acceptable. 
Right now, we have narrow windows in spring and fall shoulder 
seasons. There are other missing times that are also 
appropriate and safe.
    Third, Federal agencies need an increased ability to 
quickly share resources in the form of skilled people, 
equipment, and materials, not only in response to wildfire 
emergency, but in preventative actions of forest management. We 
need a workforce that is skilled in prescribed fire, as well as 
firefighting centered on equity.
    In conclusion, we need the full weight of our conservation 
communities and our lawmakers to coalesce and prioritize the 
protection and management of the sequoia groves. Thank you very 
much.

    [The prepared statement of Dr. Nelson follows:]
  Prepared Statement of Joanna Nelson, Ph.D., Save the Redwoods League
    I'm Dr. Joanna Nelson, director of science and conservation 
planning for Save the Redwoods League. Our non-profit is dedicated to 
protecting redwoods, including the globally unique giant sequoias--the 
world's largest and among the oldest trees, which can:

     Grow to be more than 100 feet in circumference at the 
            base;

     Reach heights taller than 300 feet; and

     Survive more than 3,000 years, as well as providing places 
            of awe, beauty, and delight.

    The League supports efforts to protect giant sequoias from the 
threats of wildfire and climate change, and the Save Our Sequoias Act 
is such an effort--we look forward to working with the Committee and 
the bill's co-sponsors to enact the best possible legislation to ensure 
the future of giant sequoias. This is the basis of my testimony today.
    Save the Redwoods League was founded in 1918 with a mission to 
protect, restore, and connect people with California's iconic ``big 
trees,'' the coast redwoods (Sequoia sempervirens) and giant sequoias 
(Sequoiadendron giganteum (Lindl.) J. Buchholz). We protect each of 
these related species throughout their entire range. At the time of our 
organization's founding, the major threat to these ancient giants was 
logging. Today, wildfires--exacerbated by drought, climate change, and 
practices of fire exclusion--are occurring at a frequency and severity 
that, if allowed to continue at the current rate, could wipe out our 
irreplaceable and magnificent giant sequoia groves.
    Although giant sequoias evolved with low- to moderate-intensity 
fire, and in fact need fire to reproduce, today's wildfires are killing 
large, mature trees, which is largely unprecedented. In the past six 
years, since the 2015 Rough Fire, we have lost about 20% of the large, 
mature giant sequoia on the planet (1). We see the 2015 Rough Fire as a 
marker of an exponential uptick in wildfire area, intensity, and 
severity. And I'll emphasize that nearly all of that loss (20%) of the 
largest, oldest trees occurred in only 14 months across the 2020 and 
2021 fire events.

    We are short on time in this emergency.
We know what to do to meet this emergency.

    There is substantial evidence that forest management--silvicultural 
and ecological prescriptions to implement restoration thinning, pile 
burning--especially that which culminates in prescribed burning, 
reduces the risk of conifer mortality in wildfire in the seasonally dry 
forests of California and the Sierra Nevada region (2,3). The 
seasonally dry forests of the Sierra Nevada include the mixed-conifer 
forests in which we find giant sequoias.
    Low-severity fire, moving through the understory and clearing out 
duff and fallen branches--without moving up into the forest canopy and 
killing sequoias--tends to lead to the next low-severity fire, where 
that wildfire has less fuel to burn. In contrast, high-severity fire 
tends to lead to the next high-severity fire based on forest condition 
(dead standing or dead-and-fallen trees and heavy shrub growth). High-
severity fire can exacerbate the impacts of climate change on 
California conifer forests (4). In other words, these unprecedented 
fires will come again and again . . . and our immediate forest-
management actions matter for irreplaceable, giant sequoia survival.

Dr. Scott Stephens and collaborators, in a 2020 study of forests of the 
western US, state:

        ``We argue that fire-use treatments (including prescribed fires 
        and managed wildfires) as well as restoration thinning 
        strategies, rather than conflicting with existing environmental 
        objectives, will provide numerous co-benefits, including 
        enhanced biodiversity, increased water availability, greater 
        long-term and more sustainable carbon storage, improved forest 
        resilience and adaptation to climate change, and reduced air 
        pollution.'' (5)

    In addition to reporting on the scientific literature, we, at the 
League, can report on what we've seen on the ground that works--through 
some difficult, recent years of wildfire. We offer four examples:

  1.  2021 KNP fire in Giant Forest, Sequoia and Kings Canyon National 
            Park (SEKI)--wildfire burned into the grove with high 
            energy, but once it reached areas that had previous, 
            repeated, prescribed burns, flame lengths decreased and 
            fire fighters were able to put it out (personal 
            communication with the National Park Service).

  2.  2021 KNP fire in Redwood Mountain grove (SEKI)--previously 
            treated areas had low- to moderate-severity fire effects 
            (pers comm). Unburned areas burned at high severity (see 
            Figure 1).

  3.  2021 Windy Fire--Trail of a hundred giants (Long Meadow grove, 
            Sequoia National Forest, USFS)--this highly visited trail 
            loop, in the Long Meadow grove, had been previously 
            treated. Although fire fighters were needed in the grove to 
            protect individual trees, the area came through the fire 
            with low mortality (personal observation, J. Nelson).

  4.  In the Mariposa grove of Yosemite National Park, the Washburn 
            fire met the perimeter of a 2017 prescribed burn and did 
            not carry. Yosemite scientists wrote, ``Fuels reduction and 
            prescribed fire have been at the core of Yosemite's fire 
            management program since the 1970s and much of this 
            activity has been concentrated in the two areas where 
            firefighting operations were most successful [in the 
            Washburn]'' (https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-
            2520979/v1; and also see https://
            www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/the-key-to-
            protecting-yosemites-sequoias-from-wildfires-more-fire)


[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
            

    .epsFigure 1: Redwood Mountain Grove in Sequoia Kings Canyon 
National Park, California. Results of the 2021 KNP fire. The right 
panel shows fire severity, where high-severity is red. The left panel 
shows the location of prescribed burns in the grove, including some 
that are reburns (repeated prescribed fire). Where there were 
prescribed-fire footprints, the wildfire burned with moderate and low 
severity. Where there were none are the two notable patches of high-
severity fire.

    We know what to do to meet this emergency. However, I'll start with 
a vision of no-action before I move to solutions.
What can we expect in the future if we don't take action?

    a)  We can expect more mass-mortality events for ancient trees, 
until we have very small, isolated, populations of giant sequoia or 
arboretum specimens--at that point we are looking at risk of extinction 
in the wild, in the native range of giant sequoias. That is, of course, 
the ultimate threat: extinction.

    b)  We can expect to keep living in this ``hot, new world'' of 
climate change that we have created, which holds increasing wildfire 
area and severity. We could expect pulses of big-fire years in 
clusters, or simply repeated and consistent big-fire years--either of 
which are devastating. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on 
Climate Change (IPCC), for every one degree Celsius of global average 
warming, we can expect a two-to-four-fold increase in wildfires in the 
US West (6). Because the world has already initiated 1+C of warming, 
and rising, we are living in that at-least doubled fire-world in the US 
West. Given the difference between climate and weather--where weather 
consists of short-term events and climate is a regional or global 
average--our snowy, rainy, and severe weather of this past winter does 
not counteract the trends of hotter and dryer lands, air, and ocean, 
all of which detrimentally impact giant sequoias.

    c)  In fire events that now kill mature trees, including their 
cones and seeds, we will continue to lose seed sources, severely 
curtailing natural regeneration and therefore growth and existence of 
the sequoia ecosystem. Genetic diversity, which has helped the sequoia 
population adapt and thrive for millions of years, will also be 
reduced, threatening sequoia adaptation and therefore existence.

    d)  As an additional fire effect, we could expect ``type 
conversion,'' for example from sequoia forest to shrubs. Type 
conversion means ecosystem conversion--not through an ecological 
dynamic such as successional stages, where, for example, post-fire we 
see regrowth of herbaceous plants, grasses, then shrubs, then seedling 
trees become saplings and take over the canopy--but full conversion to 
other plant communities and corresponding loss of sequoia groves. There 
is a ``vicious cycle,'' called a positive feedback loop, in which 
carbon losses (large, mature trees burning up in fire) continue to 
accelerate global, average temperature increase and beget more carbon 
losses in increasing wildfire. Anything we can do to interrupt these 
harsh breaks in conditions, and tipping points, we must do, to protect 
gradual change and the ability of ecosystems and ecosystem-function to 
adapt (7).
Save the Redwoods League works with our membership and partners to 
        motivate and enact solutions.

    The League serves as a collaborator and affiliate partner within 
the Giant Sequoia Lands Coalition, a formal coalition of federal, 
state, Tribal, county and other members who all steward giant-sequoia 
lands. Every government member is dedicated and active, and still by 
law constrained to their own jurisdiction--one function of the 
Coalition is to see what we can do more effectively together. The 
League plays a unique role in the Coalition, able focus on the species 
across the whole range regardless of ownership. In that key role, we 
provide rangewide evaluation (8) and advocacy for giant sequoia. As the 
League, and a Coalition collaborator, we have conducted extensive media 
outreach and science-based storytelling, resulting in hundreds of 
front-page news stories from local outlets to the New York Times and 
the Washington Post.
    The League currently owns and stewards two properties in giant-
sequoia ecosystems where we conduct post-fire assessment, active land 
stewardship, post-fire restoration, and demonstrations of forest 
treatment. We participate in operational, ecological thinning and 
prescribed fire; we are continuing training to be resource advisors in 
sequoia groves during wildfire. The League has a history of acquiring 
properties in the Sierra Nevada for conservation and transferring them 
to public ownership, having contributed significantly to the current 
state of 98-99% of giant sequoia that are protected in Tribal or public 
lands.
    The League funds modest grants for academic research directly 
applicable to conservation action in giant sequoias: for example, on 
post-wildfire impacts, best restoration and re-planting practices, the 
impacts of Western Cedar Bark Beetles (Phloeosinus spp.), and 
interacting impacts, such as wildfire, beetle attack, and drought in 
combination.
    As a non-profit organization, we have the ability to act in nimble 
ways, and to participate in opportunities not always open to our 
federal and state partners, such as supporting conservation 
legislation.
What are the solutions?

    As with other crises, we need to go directly to the root causes, 
particularly two in tandem: global warming due to the burning of fossil 
fuels, and policies of fire exclusion for over a century that have led 
to overly dense forests. As a society in the United States, and here in 
California, we need to redouble our climate action on all fronts and 
address the overly high densities of forests with active management.
    Studies suggest we have a current window of time to take concerted 
action in forest management (9). Climate disruption and lack of forest 
management cause sequoia mortality. While climate change is a global 
problem requiring meta-solutions, specific local actions can reduce its 
impact on the giant sequoias and preserve a future for these great 
trees while we work for progress on the larger crisis.

    The League has multiple solutions in our written statement, and I'd 
like to share the top three here:

  1.  We must allocate the funding and resources needed to conduct fuel 
            reduction treatments based on silvicultural and ecological 
            goals, prescribed burns, and cultural burns led by 
            Indigenous practitioners, in our most at-risk groves. We 
            need to continue until treatments are completed in every 
            grove--and then sustain consistent cycles of fire 
            management to ensure resilience into the future. Although 
            fuel reduction plans will be site specific and ecologically 
            based, we have generalizable needs for taking action to 
            promote fire-resilient states in groves.

          a.  These low-intensity, controlled burns mimic the natural 
        cycle of fire in the American West. On average, the sequoia 
        ecosystem experienced fire approximately every 3-15 years 
        (depending on the scale, e.g., a small area or a whole grove) 
        (10). The practice of prescribed burning is unequivocally 
        supported by both current Western science and the traditional 
        cultural knowledge and science that Indigenous peoples have 
        practiced for millennia, and continue to practice today.

  2.  We need more time in the calendar year where forest treatments, 
            pile burning, and broadcast burning is acceptable. From 
            high moisture resulting from winter snow melt, to important 
            species' nesting and habitat protection in the spring, to 
            summer fire season, there is precious little time in the 
            year to do the work--narrow windows in spring and fall 
            ``shoulder seasons.'' Currently established windows with 
            acceptable weather, humidity, and air-quality are narrow, 
            and are missing times that are also appropriate. As one 
            example, approvals for active management could be based on 
            spot-weather reports, rather than CAL FIRE declaring, ``All 
            of California is under a red-flag warning.'' We respect CAL 
            FIRE's authority and expertise; we hear CAL FIRE leadership 
            wanting to do more prescribed burning from here on out; we 
            also see opportunities for differing regions or micro-
            climates at specific times. We must begin now and work 
            collaboratively on an ongoing basis before this year's 
            wildfires and next claim more of the giant-sequoia 
            ecosystem.

  3.  Federal agencies need an increased ability to quickly share 
            resources in the form of skilled people, equipment, and 
            materials--not only in response to wildfire emergency, but 
            in preventative actions of forest management. As one 
            example, extending the ``Good Neighbor'' authority to the 
            National Park Service--an option now held by the USFS but 
            not the Park--could be useful. Our federal partners will 
            know more about what is most useful to them.

  4.  We need a streamlined permitting process for the Endangered 
            Species Act (ESA) and the National Historic Preservation 
            Act (NHPA), while upholding species protection and 
            cultural-resource protection. Some examples might include 
            the ability to bundle biological assessments across broader 
            regions and streamlined response to Section 106 of the 
            NHPA. The White House administration has approved the US 
            Forest Service and National Park Service's ``Emergency 
            Declaration'' for 12 groves and 11 groves respectively. All 
            groves need treatment as soon as possible, with a method 
            for prioritizing which come first (these 23 groves come 
            first, and the rest of the approximately 78 groves also 
            need stewardship and treatment).

  5.  We need a paid, on-call, skilled workforce for active management 
            and prescribed fire. The League recommends engaging with 
            Jeremy Bailey, North American director of the Prescribed 
            Fire Training Program (TREX), Calaveras Healthy Impact 
            Product Solutions (CHIPS) which collaborates with local 
            Native Nations, the Sierra-Sequoia Burn Cooperative, the 
            Indigenous People's Burning Network, and the Tule River 
            Tribe. All of these individuals and entities have much to 
            contribute to a workforce discussion, centered on equity, 
            based on their significant on-the-ground experience.

  6.  Our society needs to recognize and support the wisdom and skill 
            of Indigenous communities and nations in forest stewardship 
            and cultural burning. We need their stewardship, active on 
            the land, with fewer barriers to access. We need more 
            clarity, advised by Indigenous people, on what equitable 
            ``co-management'' of lands, air, and water means, with 
            clear roles and responsibilities.

    In conclusion, we need the full weight of our conservation 
communities and our lawmakers to coalesce and prioritize the protection 
and management of the sequoia groves. We are demonstrating our 
connections and consensus in the Giant Sequoia Lands Coalition, and we 
see you here to take action with your authority and expertise as law-
makers. Thank you very much.
Footnotes

(1) a) Mature, sequoia mortality estimates drawn from field sampling 
from the Rough Fire (2015), Pier Fire (2017), and Railroad Fire (2017) 
= approximately one percent. Reference: Shive, K. et al. 2022. Ancient 
trees and modern wildfires: declining resilience to wildfire in the 
highly fire-adapted giant sequoia. Forest Ecology and Management 511: 
120110.

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.foreco.2022.120110

b) Mortality estimates from Castle Fire (2020): 10-14% of all large, 
mature giant sequoia. Reference: Stephenson, N. and Brigham, C. 2020. 
``Preliminary estimates of sequoia mortality in the 2020 Castle Fire.'' 
National Park Service.

c) Mortality estimates from KNP Complex and Windy Fire (both 2021): 3-
5% of all giant sequoia. Reference: Shive, K., Brigham, C., Caprio, T., 
Hardwick, P. 2021. 2021 Fire season impacts to giant sequoias. 
Executive Summary. National Park Service.

A sum of those estimates means a range of 14-20% of mature, giant 
sequoias on the planet were killed in wildfire, 2015 to the present.

(2) Davis, K.T., Robles, M.D., Kemp, K.B., et al., 2023. Reduced fire 
severity offers near-term buffer to climate-driven declines in conifer 
resilience across the western United States. Proceedings of the 
National Academy of Sciences, 120(11), p.e2208120120.

(3) Stephens, S.L., Westerling, A.L., Hurteau, M.D., et al., 2020. Fire 
and climate change: conserving seasonally dry forests is still 
possible. Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment, 18(6), pp.354-360.

(4) Davis et al. 2023 PNAS, ibid.

(5) Stephens et al. 2020 FREE, ibid., p. 354

(6) Among multiple IPCC reports, one pertinent reference is: IPCC, 
2018: Global warming of 1.5+C. An IPCC Special Report on the impacts of 
global warming of 1.5+C above pre-industrial levels and related global 
greenhouse gas emission pathways, in the context of strengthening the 
global response to the threat of climate change, sustainable 
development, and efforts to eradicate poverty [V. Masson-Delmotte, P. 
Zhai, H.O. Portner, D. Roberts, J. Skea, P.R. Shukla, A. Pirani, W. 
Moufouma-Okia, C. Pean, R. Pidcock, S. Connors, J.B.R. Matthews, Y. 
Chen, X. Zhou, M.I. Gomis, E. Lonnoy, T. Maycock, M. Tignor, T. 
Waterfield (eds.)].

(7) Millar, C., Stephenson N., and Stephens. 2007. Climate change and 
forests of the future: managing in the face of uncertainty. Ecological 
Applications (17)8: 2141-2151. https://doi.org/10.1890/06-1715.1

(8) Burns, E., Campbell, R., Cowan, P. 2018. ``State of Redwoods 
Conservation Report: a tale of two forests.'' Save the Redwoods League, 
San Francisco, California. In addition, the League produced a snapshot 
update of the current state of the giant sequoia with recommendations 
for 2022-2023 actions (https://www.savetheredwoods.org/wp-content/
uploads/files/SAVE-THE-GIANT-SEQUOIAS-Emergency-Actions-for-
2022%E2%80%9323.pdf).

(9) Davis et al. 2023 PNAS, ibid.

(10) Multiple studies by Tom Swetnam, including: Swetnam, T.W., Baisan, 
C.H., Caprio, A.C. et al. Multi-Millennial Fire History of the Giant 
Forest, Sequoia National Park, California, USA. fire ecol 5, 120-150 
(2009). https://doi.org/10.4996/fireecology.0503120

                                 ______
                                 

    The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Nelson. I now recognize Mr. 
Neal Desai, who is the Senior Program Director for the Pacific 
Region of National Parks Conservation Association.
    Mr. Desai, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

     STATEMENT OF NEAL DESAI, NATIONAL PARKS CONSERVATION 
                  ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Desai. Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, and 
members of the Committee, thank you so much for inviting me to 
testify on this legislation. I am Neal Desai, Senior Program 
Director with the National Parks Conservation Association's 
Pacific Region, or NPCA.
    Founded in 1919, NPCA is a leading national independent 
voice for protecting and enhancing America's National Park 
System for present and future generations. We appreciate the 
opportunity to testify on this critically important issue 
within our National Park System: ensuring the survival of our 
majestic giant sequoia trees and their habitat on the west 
slopes of the Sierra Nevada. We are pleased that Congress is 
looking at how to address this challenge.
    Americans hold so much pride for our national parks, and 
are concerned when we are faced with losing iconic species. A 
total of 5.4 million visitors from across the country and world 
flocked to Yosemite, Sequoia, and Kings Canyon last year, home 
to these audacious, humongous trees that stand the test of 
time. In 1890, Congress had the forethought to designate these 
places as national parks in part of protecting these amazing 
natural wonders. Now, in bipartisan fashion, this Congress is 
looking at how to continue the legacy of protecting these 
trees.
    This discussion is also a continuation of something already 
started 7 years ago: funding efforts to protect giant sequoias. 
In 2016, Congress passed the National Park Service Centennial 
Act to fund signature projects coupled with philanthropic 
matching funds. Restoration of the Mariposa Grove at Yosemite 
was one of the first Centennial Challenge projects undertaken.
    To better protect the root system which captures 
groundwater that allows the trees to survive the long, hot 
summers of Yosemite, roads and parking lots were removed to 
restore the natural flow of groundwater. More suitable trails 
and bathrooms were also added to the project. NPCA has worked 
with Congress to establish the Centennial Challenge Fund, and 
continues to lobby to maintain the annual appropriations for 
it. We are grateful for this continued investment, and believe 
the restoration of the Mariposa Grove is a fantastic example of 
putting this important funding to work.
    But as we all know, there is much more work to be done to 
protect these species. The National Park Service is working 
hard to address these threats with active fuel reduction 
treatments and plans for reforestation. For example, in 
Yosemite, the National Park Service has started active 
treatment of the Merced and Tuolumne giant sequoia groves in 
2021, and is continuing this important work that includes 
biomass removal and thinning of trees. The National Park 
Service also plans to implement fuel reduction and forest 
restoration work in the Mariposa Grove this year.
    In Sequoia Kings Canyon, the National Park Service has 
developed a Fiscal Year 2023 to 2025 3-year Sequoia Protection 
Action Plan for fuels treatments for 11 groves that have not 
burned in recent years and have unhealthy accumulations of 
living and dead forest fuels. This work is underway, and is 
planned to be completed by Fiscal Year 2025.
    The Sequoia Protection Action Plan defers treatments on 
three small at-risk groves, which constitute just 5 percent of 
sequoia groves in the parks in order to complete a fire 
management plan that can determine the best way to treat these 
small groves in remote, extreme terrain. The Sequoia Protection 
Action Plan notes that the remaining 23 groves in the parks are 
within a natural burn cycle, and not currently in need of fuels 
reduction treatment.
    Additionally, the National Park Service is proposing to 
replant giant sequoia and other mixed conifer seedlings in up 
to six giant sequoia groves. We applaud the agencies for 
conducting this critical work. They are employing the very 
strategies listed in this bill.
    However, this work can only continue if the National Park 
Service and agencies, including the U.S. Forest Service, have 
the resources, specifically funding and staffing, to implement 
their plans. We are grateful that Congress has passed critical 
legislation such as the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act and the 
Inflation Reduction Act that provided the agencies with funding 
that can be used toward conducting this exact sequoia 
restoration work.
    The work of the Giant Sequoia Lands Coalition highlights 
that, if funding and staffing is provided, impressive results 
can be achieved. For example, in 2022, the Coalition treated 
more than double the acres originally targeted. The cost of 
this work was $10.5 million, and involved 824 personnel. We 
believe that this is the type of work that Congress and the 
Administration should continue to fund and at an increased 
scale.
    We look forward to working with the sponsors and the 
Committee to come up with the best solution that meets the 
goals that everyone here has outlined.
    Thank you for inviting me to testify. I look forward to 
answering your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Desai follows:]

  Prepared Statement of Neal Desai, Senior Program Director, Pacific 
        Regional Office, National Parks Conservation Association
    Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, and Members of the 
Natural Resources Committee, thank you for inviting me to testify on 
H.R. 2989, the Save Our Sequoias Act. I am Neal Desai, Senior Program 
Director in the Pacific Region for the National Parks Conservation 
Association (NPCA). Founded in 1919, NPCA is the leading national, 
independent voice for protecting and enhancing America's National Park 
System for present and future generations. We appreciate the 
opportunity to testify today on a critically important issue within the 
National Park System--ensuring the survival of majestic giant sequoia 
trees and their habitat on the west slopes of the Sierra Nevada.
    We are pleased Congress is looking at how to address this 
challenge--Americans hold so much pride for our national parks and are 
concerned when we are faced with losing iconic species. 5.4 million 
visitors from across the country and world flocked to Yosemite, Sequoia 
and Kings Canyon last year, home to these audacious, humongous trees 
that stand the test of time.
    Sequoia, Kings Canyon and Yosemite National Parks have over 40 
giant sequoia groves. Even though Yosemite has fewer groves, it's known 
for some of the most famous, including the Grizzly Giant, one of oldest 
known giant sequoia trees on federal lands at 3,000 years old. Sequoia 
National Park has the highest density of trees within the park system, 
which includes the largest tree known as General Sherman, which is 275 
ft tall and 36 feet around at its base.
    In 1890, Congress had the forethought to designate these places as 
national parks in part to protect these amazing natural wonders. Now, 
in bipartisan fashion, this Congress is looking at how to continue the 
legacy of protecting these trees.
    This discussion is also a continuation of something already started 
seven years ago: funding efforts to protect giant sequoias. In 2016, 
Congress passed the National Park Service Centennial Act to fund 
signature projects coupled with philanthropic matching funds. 
Restoration of the Mariposa Grove at Yosemite was one of the first 
Centennial Challenge projects undertaken. The Park Service has noted, 
``Sequoias have a relatively shallow but extensive root system, 
reaching to over a hundred feet in all directions from their base. 
These roots capture the groundwater which allows the trees to survive 
the long, hot summers of Yosemite; a healthy root structure is 
essential to ensure their longevity.'' To better protect the root 
system, roads and parking lots were removed to restore the natural flow 
of groundwater. More suitable trails and bathrooms were also added as 
part of the project. NPCA worked with Congress to establish the 
Centennial Challenge Fund and continues to lobby to maintain the annual 
appropriations for it. We are grateful for this continued investment 
and believe the restoration of the Mariposa Grove is a fantastic 
example of putting this important funding to work.

    As we all know, there is more work to be done to protect this 
species.

    While giant sequoias are resilient trees known to be fire-resistant 
due to their fibrous bark, warmer weather and longer, more intense 
drought is having a profound effect on these trees. As the Park Service 
has stated: ``Prior to 2014, scientists recorded only subtle, long-term 
changes in forest health.
    During and after the drought, they observed large, abrupt, and 
novel changes to forests, including in numerous giant sequoia groves. 
These included: unprecedented numbers of large sequoias dying in severe 
wildfires, giant sequoias dying from bark beetle attacks, and acute 
foliage dieback as a short-term adaptation to drought.'' There is no 
doubt the earth is warming and as a consequence drought, invasive 
species and wildfires have become threats to the survival of giant 
sequoias.
    Hotter summers, shorter winters, longer droughts and more intense 
storms are changing our parks. In 2018 researchers at the University of 
California Berkley and the University of Wisconsin looked specifically 
at the effects of climate change on national parks. ``In this study, 
the team used these maps to calculate historical temperature and 
rainfall trends within the parks and over the U.S. as a whole. They 
found that the temperature in national parks increased by a little over 
1 degree Celsius from 1895 to 2010, roughly double the warming 
experienced by the rest of the country. Yearly rainfall totals 
decreased over 12 percent of national park land, compared to 3 percent 
of land in the United States.'' (https://news.berkeley.edu/2018/09/24/
national-parks-bear-the-brunt-of-climate-change/). The impacts of these 
threats are creating unavoidable changes to parks across the country. 
Higher temperatures are melting glaciers in Glacier National Park. 
Extreme drought along the Colorado River is shrinking water at Lake 
Mead and the Grand Canyon. Heavier, unpredictable rains led to extreme 
flooding at Yellowstone. The same threats face the giant sequoias.

    The National Park Service is working hard to address these threats 
with active fuel reduction treatments and plans for reforestation.
    For example, in Yosemite, the National Park Service started active 
treatment of the Merced and Tuolumne giant sequoia groves in 2021 and 
is continuing this important work that includes biomass removal and 
thinning of trees. The National Park Service also plans to implement 
fuels reduction and forest restoration work in the Mariposa Grove this 
year. In Sequoia and Kings Canyon, the National Park Service has 
developed a FY23-25 three-year Sequoia Protection Action Plan for fuels 
treatments for 11 groves that have not burned in recent years and have 
unhealthy accumulations of living and dead forest fuels. This work is 
underway and is planned to be completed by FY25. The Sequoia Protection 
Action Plan defers treatment on three small at-risk groves, which 
constitute just 5% of sequoia groves in the parks, in order to complete 
a Fire Management Plan that can determine the best way to treat these 
three small groves in remote, extreme terrain. The Sequoia Protection 
Action Plan notes that the remaining 23 sequoia groves in the parks are 
within a natural burn cycle and not currently in need of fuels 
reduction treatment. Additionally, the National Park Service is 
proposing to replant giant sequoia and other mixed conifer seedlings in 
up to six giant sequoia groves, since these areas burned at such high 
and unprecedented severity that natural regeneration is unlikely to 
occur. We applaud the agencies for conducting this critical work--they 
are employing the very strategies listed in this bill.
    However, this work can only occur if the National Park Service, and 
agencies including the US Forest Service, have the resources, 
specifically funding and staffing, to implement their plans. We are 
grateful that Congress has passed critical legislation, such as the 
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and Inflation Reduction Act, that 
provided the agencies with funding that can be used toward conducting 
the sequoia grove restoration work.
    The work of the Giant Sequoia Lands Coalition highlights that if 
agencies are provided with funding and staffing, impressive results can 
be achieved. For example, in 2022, the Coalition treated more than 
double the acres originally targeted. The cost of this work was $10.5 
million and involved 824 personnel.
    We believe this is the type of work that Congress and the 
administration should continue to fund and at an increased scale.

    Thank you for inviting me to testify. I look forward to answering 
your questions.

                                 ______
                                 

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Desai. And finally, I would 
now like to recognize the Honorable Shine Nieto, Vice Chairman 
of the Tule River Indian Tribe of California.
    Vice Chairman Nieto, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. SHINE NIETO, VICE CHAIRMAN, TULE RIVER 
      INDIAN TRIBE OF CALIFORNIA, PORTERVILLE, CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Nieto. Thank you, sir.
    [Speaking Native language.] Hello and good morning. On 
behalf of the Tule River Tribe, I applaud Speaker Kevin 
McCarthy, Representative Scott Peters, and Chairman Bruce 
Westerman for working across party lines with all stakeholders, 
including the Tule River Tribe, to ensure that there are 
greater protections of the sacred giant sequoia groves. Thank 
you, Chairman Westerman, for holding this hearing, and 
Committee members for attending, and the Committee and 
legislative staff for your hard work.
    I am Shine Nieto, Vice Chairman of the Tule River Tribal 
Council, the governing body of Tule River Tribe. Our people are 
descendants of the Yokuts Indians who occupied the San Joaquin 
Valley and California for thousands of years prior to contact 
with any settlers. The current Tule River Reservation is 
located between Bakersfield and Fresno, just east of 
Porterville and the Sierra Nevada foothills, and covers 
approximately 58,000 acres. The reservation is home to five 
groves of the giant sequoias, and 1,500 individual trees, 
monarch trees. The Tribe currently has 1,952 enrolled tribal 
members.
    In September 2021, the Windy Fire was ignited by lightning 
on a reservation. The fire spread quickly, especially in areas 
where there was little or no previous prescribed, preventative 
work, known as the hazardous fuel reduction. To minimize fire 
severity, we took on an all-hands-on-deck approach to help 
fight the fire alongside our neighbors and partners. With the 
weather conditions changing constantly, we faced our worst 
nightmare: the fire spread throughout several sequoia groves 
and beyond. When the Windy Fire was finally contained, we 
assessed the damage. We knew that, without the preventative 
work, we would have lost much more.
    H.R. 2989, introduced last week, the Save Our Sequoias Act, 
is a long-overdue effort to empower experts and stewards to 
employ critical efforts to combat the very real threat of the 
fires that plague the California giant sequoia groves. We 
recognize that there are currently few long-term drought 
solutions in place to protect our forests and lands, so we must 
work together to save our sequoias.
    The Tule River Tribe is proud to support passage of the 
Save Our Sequoias Act. We are genuinely committed to contribute 
our traditional ecological knowledge of the forest management 
practices that have kept the giant sequoias true national 
treasures in our presence for thousands of years. Our 
traditional ecological knowledge is science, and we appreciate 
that the legislation not only acknowledges this, but requires 
it. The holder of this knowledge is the Tule River Tribe.
    A key aspect of our traditional forest management embraces 
the need for long-term conditional caretaking of the giant 
sequoia groves. The emergency corrective actions that have been 
taken since the recent fires have been helpful, but are short-
term band-aids. Once H.R. 2989 is enacted into law, long-term 
management approaches will be allowed to flourish.
    The Tribe is proud to note that we are working hard on a 
further contribution to protect the sequoias. After 50 years of 
negotiations, we are on the cusp of reaching a settlement of 
our Indian water rights with the United States. We hope to have 
legislation signed into law that will allow us to construct the 
best permanent drought solution for the South Tule River. This 
settlement will fund a reservoir that will supply a consistent 
water supply throughout the year for the Tule River Reservation 
and downstream users. Better managed water resources are 
crucial to contain high-severity wildfires. The combined effort 
of the tribes, water rights settlement legislation, and the 
Save Our Sequoias Act will ensure the well-being of the giant 
sequoias for generations to come.
    We continue to assist and recover from the Windy Fire, and 
have learned much from it. We have been reminded that we need 
to collaborate to reduce the fires. We need to share our 
knowledge and our resources. We need to respect and employ 
traditional ecological knowledge. We need to do this together 
as co-stewards. We need to do this now. For this reason, we 
urge the Congress to move forward with this legislation.
    Thank you for this opportunity to provide comments in 
support of the Save Our Sequoias Act, and I look forward to 
your questions on anything that our tribe can help with this 
Act, and to help move forward with saving these trees that mean 
so much to us. On our land, we call them our ancestors, because 
they are the oldest living body on Mother Earth. So, we really 
want to do this with you guys, as a tribe.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Nieto follows:]

 Prepared Statement of Shine Nieto, Vice-Chairman, Tule River Tribe of 
                 the Tule River Reservation, California
    On behalf of the Tule River Tribe, I applaud Speaker Kevin 
McCarthy, Representative Scott Peters, and Chairman Bruce Westerman for 
working diligently across party lines and through all stakeholders, 
including the Tule River Tribe, to ensure that there are greater 
protections of the sacred Giant Sequoia Groves. We are thankful to 
Chairman Westerman for holding this hearing, and to Committee members 
for attending, as well as Committee and legislative staff who worked 
tirelessly to get us where we are today.
    I am Shine Nieto, Vice-Chairman of the Tule River Tribal Council, 
the governing body of the Tule River Tribe. Our People are descendants 
of the Yokuts Indians, a large group of linguistically related people 
who occupied the San Joaquin Valley in California for thousands of 
years prior to contact with non-Indians.
    Following the incorporation of California into the United States, 
several efforts were made, beginning in 1851, to relocate the Tule 
River Indians to a permanent homeland. The current Reservation was 
defined by three Executive Orders issued between 1873 and 1878 and 
today covers approximately 58,000 acres. The Tribe currently has 1,952 
enrolled tribal members.
    On September 9, 2021, the 97,528-acre Windy Fire was ignited by 
lightning on the Tule River Indian Reservation. The fire spread 
quickly--especially in areas where there was little to no previous 
prescribed preventative work known as ``hazardous fuel reduction'' to 
minimize fire severity. We took an ``all hands-on deck'' approach to 
help fight the fire alongside our neighbors and partners. With weather 
conditions changing constantly, we faced our worst nightmare: the fire 
spread throughout several sequoia groves and beyond. When the Windy 
Fire was finally contained and we assessed the damage, we knew that 
without the preventative work, we would have lost much more.
    H.R. 2989 introduced last week--the ``Save Our Sequoias Act'' is a 
long overdue effort to empower resourceful experts and stewards to 
employ critical resiliency efforts to combat the very real threat of 
fire that plagues roughly 70 Sequoia groves as drought conditions 
increase. We recognize that there are currently few long-term drought 
solutions in place in the area to protect our forest and lands--so we 
must work together to save our sequoias. The Tule River Tribe is proud 
to support the passage of the Save the Sequoias Act.
    As part of our advocacy efforts on behalf of this bill, the Tribe 
intends to present a resolution at the Mid-Year Conference of the 
National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) next month to garner 
support from all member tribes across the country. We will provide a 
copy of the resolution to the Committee upon adoption by NCAI.
    We are genuinely committed to contribute our Traditional Ecological 
Knowledge of forest management practices that has kept the Giant 
Sequoias--true national treasures, in our presence for thousands of 
years. Our Traditional Ecological Knowledge is science and we 
appreciate that the legislation not only acknowledges this, but 
requires it. The holders of this knowledge is the Tule River Tribe.
    A key aspect of our traditional forest management embraces the need 
for long-term, continual, caretaking of the Giant Sequoia Groves. The 
emergency corrective actions that have been taken since the recent 
fires have been helpful, but are short-term band aids. Once H.R. 2989 
is enacted into law, long-term management approaches will be allowed to 
flourish.
    The legislation forges a responsive coalition between the Tribe and 
its long-standing partners--federal, state and local land managers to 
bring our very best to the table as we work to advance the resiliency 
of the sequoia groves. The legislation paves the way to formalize a 
clear path forward on how we can combine our strengths to safeguard the 
sequoias.
    The Tribe is proud to note that we are working hard to further 
contribute to protect the Sequoias. After over 50 years of negotiating, 
we are on the cusp of reaching a settlement of our Indian water rights 
with the United States. We hope to have legislation signed into law 
this session that will allow us to select and construct the best 
permanent drought solution for the South Tule River. This settlement 
will fund a reservoir that will supply a consistent water supply 
throughout the year, especially during droughts, to the Tule River 
reservation and downstream users. Better managed water resources are 
crucial to contain high severity wildfires. The combined effect of the 
tribe's water rights settlement legislation and the Save Our Sequoias 
Act will ensure the well-being of the Giant Sequoias for generations to 
come.
    In July 2022, the Tribe hosted over 30 guests including the 
Assistant Secretary of the Interior, Indian Affairs and officials from 
various other federal and state agencies to tour the Tule River Indian 
Reservation and the Headwaters the South Fork of the Tule River located 
in the Sequoia National Monument. The caravan of guests made numerous 
stops and were able to experience a ``boots on the ground'' perspective 
of the gloomy effects of the unforgiving, fire ravaged area. We made 
sure that our guest likewise took time to appreciate the new growth, 
reforestation and recovery from previous fires.
    We stopped to witness our crews hard at work to clean up the downed 
trees, treat the areas and plant over 180,000 new trees to rehabilitate 
damaged areas. Reforestation is no simple task. The burned areas do not 
exactly provide ideal conditions for young vulnerable seedlings. A lot 
of science, care and strategy is needed to ensure that those new trees 
will grow and survive. This work is done in hard-to-reach locations and 
in challenging weather conditions. Our crews include seasoned mentors 
and experts as well as numerous tribal youths from different tribal 
nations that will master these forest management practices and carry 
our Traditional Ecological Knowledge forward as it has been done since 
time immemorial. We know that we need more of this good work to achieve 
our collective goals.
    We were able to show our guests that our traditional forest 
management practices worked. There was a very clear difference between 
those Giant Sequoia groves managed under our traditional practices and 
those that were not. The destruction of the Windy Fire could not reach 
past the lines of our traditional risk reduction treated areas and that 
saved many trees and our Reservation. We are grateful for these gifts 
of knowledge from our ancestors and appreciate that we are in an era 
where these gifts are valued the way that they should be--because we 
all will continue to benefit from them.
    These ancient trees are not easily replaceable. They must be 
protected by all means possible. We continue to assess and recover from 
the Windy Fire and have learned much from it. We have been reminded 
that we need to collaborate to reduce fires. We need to share our 
knowledge and our resources. We need to respect and employ Traditional 
Ecological Knowledge. We need to do this together as co-stewards--and 
we need to do this now.
    For these reasons, we urge the Congress to move this legislation 
forward. Thank you for this opportunity to provide comments in support 
of the Save Our Sequoias Act.

                                 ______
                                 

    The Chairman. Thank you, Vice Chairman Nieto. I will now 
recognize Members for questions in the order provided by staff 
on both sides of the dais. We will alternate between the 
Majority and the Minority, and non-Committee members will go 
last. And we can have more than one round of questions, if 
needed.
    I first recognize myself for 5 minutes, and my first 
question is for the whole panel, and you can answer by just 
raising your hands. Raise your hands if you are testifying 
today on behalf of an organization that directly manages giant 
sequoia groves under your jurisdiction.
    Chief Moore, do you not----
    Mr. Moore. Sorry.
    The Chairman. Are you testifying today on behalf of an 
organization that directly manages giant sequoia groves under 
your jurisdiction?
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. All right. So, 80 percent of our panelists 
are directly involved on the ground with management of giant 
sequoias.
    Are you testifying today on behalf of an organization that 
is a member or an affiliate partner of the Giant Sequoias Lands 
Coalition?
    Thank you.
    Chief Moore, there is an opposition letter to this bill, 
unbelievably, that says that the Save Our Sequoias Act 
designates a ``broad so-called emergency'' for the giant 
sequoias. Would you agree with the characterization that the 
crisis facing the sequoias is a ``so-called emergency''?
    Mr. Moore. I think the crisis that is facing the giant 
sequoias, Congressman, is a crisis.
    The Chairman. It is an emergency?
    Mr. Moore. It is an emergency.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Chief Moore, yes or no, based on 
your understanding of this bill, does it waive any requirements 
for the Forest Service to comply with environmental laws, 
including NEPA, ESA, and the National Historic Preservation 
Act?
    Mr. Moore. No, Congressman, I think it is in compliance 
with NEPA.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Chief Moore. Last year, the Forest 
Service announced emergency actions under NEPA to reduce 
hazardous fuels in 11 giant sequoia groves. While this was a 
great first step, I don't think anybody in this room should 
think that we can treat less than 10,000 acres in a select 
amount of groves, and then call it a day, and think we have 
solved the problem.
    Do you believe the emergency actions undertaken by the 
Forest Service last year ``severely undercut any bedrock 
environmental laws''?
    Mr. Moore. No, Congressman, I do not.
    The Chairman. Can you tell me what the difference is, if 
any, between the emergency actions the Administration took last 
year versus the emergency authorities provided in this bill?
    Mr. Moore. I think the emergency actions that the agency 
took and the authorities in this bill are very similar in 
nature. I do think that the SOS Act does add process and 
reporting requirements that we would be happy to work with you 
on.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Chief. So, if the administrative 
emergency actions didn't undermine NEPA and the Save our 
Sequoias Act simply codifies these actions, it sounds like, in 
your opinion, it adds a little more reporting to it. Would you 
agree that this bill does not severely undercut any bedrock 
environmental laws?
    Mr. Moore. Yes, to my understanding, it would not.
    The Chairman. Thank you again, Chief. Were you able to 
increase the pace of treatments because you received funding, 
or because you utilized streamlined authorities, or both?
    Mr. Moore. Both, Congressman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Chief.
    Dr. Nelson, some have suggested that enough work has been 
done to protect giant sequoias. If a fire were to ignite this 
summer in the Sierra Nevada, could we potentially see another 
high mortality giant sequoia event?
    Dr. Nelson. Thank you. If you are in the room with 
scientists and managers, you hear people's fears of ``I am 
worried about the next wildfire.'' Yes. The next wildfire, we 
could see a high mortality event.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Nelson.
    Vice Chairman Nieto, what would be your response to those 
who suggest that the legislation isn't needed because enough 
work has already happened on the ground?
    Mr. Nieto. I would suggest those people come out to see 
these giant sequoias, and see where they are wrong with what 
they are thinking about them not needing to be protected, 
because without those in our lands, like I said, you are 
missing out on a beautiful sight, first of all.
    And then second of all, they need to be there to protect 
the land that is, the other trees around them, they kind of 
give up themselves to protect those trees. That is why they 
have been there so long.
    So, for someone who doesn't know anything about these 
trees, I think they should come out and get a closer look, and 
they would probably become tree huggers themselves.
    The Chairman. Well, seeing is believing. And Vice Chairman 
Nieto, when we did the field tour, and I got to visit with 
members of the Tule River Tribe, I was impressed by the history 
with the Tribe and the sequoias. And you have discussed how 
your tribe has been managing sequoias not for hundreds of 
years, but for millennia. If we managed our Federal lands like 
the Tribe manages its lands, what do you think the difference 
would be for the health of these giant sequoias?
    Mr. Nieto. I was impressed that when I was a youngster, 
probably about 8 years old, I always went to the mountains with 
my uncle. We went to the redwoods, the Redwood Corral we call 
it, one of our five groves. And that is where we would go to 
get our willows up there, because they are a lot stronger when 
they are more greener in the meadow right there, when they are 
mixed with the redwood. I guess you can say when the redwoods 
hit the meadows and the water from the meadow, it goes into 
those willows and it turns them red. So, they are basically 
redwood willows. And they are a lot stronger than the willows 
down below in the valley.
    And we always had to clean up during the winter time around 
the trees. In the first video, I saw the fire people cleaning 
around the trees. But when we were doing that up there back in 
the day, when I was like 8 years old, we were told that we were 
ruining the food environment for those trees when we were 
actually protecting them from being burned by the fires in the 
summertime, if they happened to come, or even the fires in the 
wintertime when they happen to come.
    We always cleaned out an area around those trees to protect 
them, just like if they were your plant at home. You don't let 
weeds get in the garden if you want your roses to bloom. So, 
that is what we always did. And I was impressed that they are 
finally listening to someone that knows more about the trees 
than themselves.
    The Chairman. That is my point exactly. My time has 
expired. I now recognize the gentleman from California for 5 
minutes, Mr. Huffman.
    Mr. Huffman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
this hearing and for your work on this important issue. Thanks 
to the witnesses for their very helpful testimony.
    Mr. Chairman, we agree on a lot of things today. I think we 
all agree that the giant sequoia is an incredible iconic 
resource, and we don't want it to go away on our watch. I think 
we all agree that it is under unique and emergency stressors 
and threats that need to be addressed. We agree that the mega-
fires we are experiencing in recent years are not natural, are 
not normal, and we agree that 100 years of failed fire 
suppression efforts in our forests is a big part of the 
problem.
    I think the only piece that we might have some nuanced 
disagreements on is I think we need to acknowledge a little 
more directly that the climate crisis is at the heart of this 
conversation and this emergency that we are trying to deal 
with. And as we move forward, hopefully together, to try to 
save the giant sequoia it is important to consider that bigger 
context so that we don't keep doing things that make the 
climate crisis even worse. So, I just wanted to note that.
    The intent of this Act is very laudable, and I especially 
appreciate the efforts in this bill to codify existing work 
that is being done by the National Park Service and the Forest 
Service to respond to this emergency. I think the bill provides 
these agencies with some important tools and with an excellent 
overall framework to respond to this important challenge.
    However, the bill also directs these agencies to stop doing 
something that is actually working quite well, and that is 
moving forward with urgency, with incredible speed, with 
incredible scale in full compliance with all of our 
environmental laws.
    It has been suggested since this bill was first rolled out 
that some of these laws need to give way in order to save the 
giant sequoia. I think if we have learned anything over the 
past year or two, we have learned that the giant sequoia is not 
a poster child for NEPA reform or ESA reform. The giant sequoia 
and the incredible heroic efforts that have been taking place 
to save it are a poster child for how these environmental laws 
actually are a lot more flexible than people acknowledge in 
this Committee most of the time, and maybe a poster child for 
how to use existing environmental laws to do big things very 
quickly on the ground, because that is what we have seen in the 
past year.
    We do not need the carve-outs from NEPA, and the Endangered 
Species Act, and the National Historic Preservation Act that 
are in this bill. And we can debate the nuances of whether they 
violate NEPA and the ESA or whether they just expand existing 
emergency authorities. I am going to ask Chief Moore to expand 
a little bit on some of his concerns, because what may seem 
like nuances to you, Mr. Chairman, I believe are very important 
points of precedent that we need to take seriously.
    Senator Feinstein and Senator Padilla have a bill that does 
not include these provisions, but does include all of the 
important tools to save the sequoias. And I hope that we can 
work together to get to that place where we can move a bill 
forward together that doesn't either intentionally or otherwise 
do harm to our environmental laws. So, I hope you will work 
with us. We have been trying to have that conversation for 
quite some time.
    I saw Chief Moore, in his testimony, invited the 
opportunity to talk about some amendments that would address 
those concerns. We want to do that with you, too, Mr. Chairman. 
We want to get this bill in a place where we can move it 
forward.
    Now, Chief Moore, the scale and the speed of what you and 
your partners have done over the past year or so is just 
remarkable. And the fact that you are on track to get all of 
this work done within the next year, likewise, is remarkable, 
all of it in full compliance with the environmental laws. Is it 
fair to say that you don't need any changes to our 
environmental laws to keep doing this great work?
    Mr. Moore. Congressman, we are going to always embrace what 
Congress gives us. We are looking at this Save Our Sequoias Act 
in particular. And while there are a lot of similarities to 
what we already have in terms of authorities, there are some 
places that we feel adds an additional burden.
    I indicated what those were in my opening comments, 
particularly the reporting requirements that we would be 
interested in working with Congress to share what those 
concerns are, to meet the intent of the bill.
    The other component of it is that it does codify some of 
the work and some of the authorities that we are currently 
using.
    So, we would be happy to work with Congress in any way that 
this Committee, or Congress in general, would like for us to.
    Mr. Huffman. I appreciate that very much.
    And Dr. Nelson, on behalf of Save the Redwoods League, I 
just note that you are also supporting the Feinstein-Padilla 
bill, which does not raise any of these points of disagreement 
over the environmental laws. Correct?
    Dr. Nelson. That is correct as we saw it last year. I don't 
know the current form.
    Mr. Huffman. Very good. Thank you very much.
    I yield back.
    The Chairman. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes the gentleman from California.
    Mr. Duarte, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Duarte. Thank you. Thank all of you for your 
information today. It is very important.
    Mr. Moore, we have seen experience that loss comes from one 
of our most revered natural resources, the giant sequoia tree, 
when there is a lack of management in place. We understand the 
blame and burden does not fall on the shoulders of the Forest 
Service. Like you said, you take what Congress gives you, and 
there is a lot of litigation sometimes involved, and there is a 
lot of bureaucracy involved in doing your jobs.
    Do you feel that initiatives such as this bill, which I am 
a co-sponsor of--I have taken my family to outings at the 
Murphy's Grove of sequoia several times. We live about an hour 
away. And one of my first dates with my wife in 1995, 
Alexandra, was a road trip from Reedley, where she was staying, 
up to the giant sequoias down south there. So, there is quite a 
lot of attachment.
    But other forests are burning also. Other forests are 
burning also. And do you believe that, although this is a great 
step to protect the sequoias, some of these regulation changes 
and resources could be well applied to other forests--may or 
may not be giant sequoias--to protect rural communities, to 
protect habitat, to protect the health of those ecosystems?
    Mr. Moore. If you are asking about this particular bill, it 
doesn't expand beyond, my understanding is, the Giant Sequoia 
National Monument, the three national forests, Sierra, Sequoia, 
and the Tahoe National Forest. It also includes those adjacent 
lands that could have an impact on those areas, should 
something happen like a wildfire.
    Mr. Duarte. Yes. Do you believe that some of these healthy 
forest initiatives to protect the sequoias could help protect 
the safety of rural communities if applied in other forests 
that you oversee?
    Mr. Moore. Yes, absolutely. I believe that we have a lot of 
authorities that we currently have, and some that are being 
proposed that would be very helpful.
    Mr. Duarte. Are you stifled by some of the NEPA and ESA 
regulations from practicing what you would consider to be the 
optimal forest management practices on other lands that you 
govern?
    Mr. Moore. Congressman, what we have focused on 
particularly the last 2 years is really streamlining our 
processes to get more efficient and effective. And if you were 
to ask me what is the result of that so far, I will tell you 
that the efforts that we have undertaken recently we now use in 
about 85 percent of our NEPA documents using categorical 
exclusions, CEs. That is up from about 70 percent just about 10 
years ago.
    And to further break that down, that 85 percent would 
represent about 4,000 categorical exclusions that we perform on 
an annual basis.
    So, we are making a lot of progress by simply streamlining 
the processes, particularly using the tools that Congress----
    Mr. Duarte. So, let me ask--that sounds great, I am glad 
you are making progress on the national forests--the private 
lands in California, Sierra Nevada, are reputed to be more 
sustainably managed through active logging and more commercial 
enterprises in healthier states, having less severe forest 
fires. Similar are some of the recovered Tahoe Basin lands that 
have been more sustainably managed recently. Would you concur 
that private forest lands in general in California are 
healthier when it comes to forest fires, habitat, and 
resilience, than the U.S. Forest Service's, and that maybe you 
are catching up, but that is the mark that you are catching up 
to?
    Mr. Moore. Yes, Congressman. Most people are surprised when 
I tell them what I am about to say, is that most forest fires 
start on private lands, not on national forest-managed lands, 
although those fires on National Forest System lands, because 
of the abundance of vegetation there, and the ladder fuels, it 
creates hazard conditions to everything in its sight.
    Mr. Duarte. I agree. I farm in the Sierra Nevadas, and I 
have had my wine grapes smoked out a number of times over the 
last few years, more so than I ever expected. I have been up 
there for about 20 years. It is definitely getting worse. But 
it is the overgrown nature of the forest that has changed. 
Perhaps global warming, perhaps droughts. But we had droughts 
in the 1970s, we had droughts prior to that, similar warm and 
dry conditions. The catastrophic fires have more to do with 
fuel loads and management practices than they do with the fact 
that fires just start from time to time, whether it is natural 
or human. Is that true?
    Mr. Moore. Yes, and I will give you a good example of that. 
If I was to mimic conditions traditionally in this country, 
particularly in those fire-adapted ecosystems, what you 
normally have is about anywhere between 40 to 60 trees per 
acre. What we have on the landscape now is anywhere of 600-plus 
trees per acre. So, that tells you that we have an abundance of 
vegetation on the landscape that we really need to remove if we 
are going to have a positive effect on how fire behaves as it 
moves across the landscapes.
    Mr. Duarte. Did global warming cause the 600 trees per acre 
versus the 30 or 40 trees per acre, or is that a management 
outcome?
    Mr. Moore. I think it is a combination of things. I think 
that is certainly one of them.
    I think the other thing, too, is that we have----
    Mr. Duarte. Global warming caused the tree density to 
increase?
    Mr. Moore. It is a combination of things. It is not just 
one. It is a combination of things. Global warming certainly 
adds to the complexity of that, but we have also kept fire out 
of fire-adapted ecosystems for over 100 years now. So, those 
ecosystems need fire, and we have kept fire out of those 
ecosystems.
    Mr. Duarte. Is logging an alternative to fire when it comes 
to fuels reduction and sustainable forest management?
    Mr. Moore. I certainly think logging is an option. It is a 
viable option.
    I also say, along those same lines, we need to be looking 
at wood innovations too, because the type of material we have 
now in the landscape is small diameter, low-value material. 
What we have traditionally had in terms of our infrastructure 
is sawlog-type facilities. We need that, but we also need other 
innovations to come into this whole wood industry.
    Mr. Duarte. I am sorry, I am over time, but I am really 
enjoying my conversation with you.
    The Chairman. The gentleman's time has expired, and we can 
do a second round if we agree to that. And I will try to be 
generous if a witness is answering a question when the time 
expires.
    I will now go to the gentlelady from Alaska, Mrs. Peltola, 
who is also a co-sponsor of the bill.
    You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Peltola. Thank you, Chairman Westerman. My question is 
to Vice Chairman Nieto, and I do want to just make the 
observation I think it is interesting that the Federal 
Government has kind of co-opted our term ``Chief,'' and then 
the tribes have co-opted back the term ``Chairman,'' and ``Vice 
Chairman.''
    [Laughter.]
    Mrs. Peltola. So, to Vice Chairman Nieto, I just wanted to 
ask you: the Save Our Sequoias Act, it does facilitate tribal 
stewardship agreements and Good Neighbor Authority and the 
Giant Sequoia Emergency Protection Program and Fund. Despite 
this terrible situation that you are in with the iconic giant 
sequoias, I am pleased to see so much partnership among so many 
different levels. And I just wanted to ask you, Mr. Vice 
Chairman, could you speak about the importance of the iconic 
giant sequoia to the Tule River Tribe, and how your management 
practices helped inform the legislation?
    Mr. Nieto. Yes, thank you. We have been doing this for 
years. Like I said, it has been normal practice for us, as 
tribal members. We have tribal members that are more into 
society, and then we have tribal members like myself that are 
more traditional and just want to be human beings, instead of 
Natives. But we have been knowing this practice since we have 
been kids and since we could walk. We always had a rake or even 
a good-sized cedar branch to brush the area away.
    And like I was telling Mr. Speaker and Mr. Westerman, you 
don't leave weeds in your garden. Everybody always pulls the 
weeds from the garden. So, to get something beautiful and to 
keep something beautiful, you have to clean that area. And we 
have been practicing this forever. If you don't clean the area, 
you give it a chance to burn. There is so much that you can do.
    And plus, before, we had a potbelly stove where we had to 
keep warm. So, most of that wood that was laying around that 
wasn't good to the trees, we used that to warm our homes most 
of the time.
    So, it was always to clean the area, to clean the area, to 
clean the area. Because if you have a yard--we have 58,000 
acres of backyard, so we have to keep our area clean, just like 
Hawaii, everybody knows Hawaii is a beautiful place. If people 
don't clean Hawaii, then it is not a beautiful place.
    To us, those redwood trees are our Hawaii. They mean 
everything to us because without them everything is just a 
regular tree. Everything has meaning to us, and those trees are 
actually called our ancestors. They are not called monarchs. 
They are ancestors to us because they are the oldest living 
thing on our reservation, on our lands.
    And we come from Stockton, the mountain range and those 
trees always meant something to our people, and still do to 
this day. So, we are grateful to be here at this table with 
everybody, and we are grateful for Mr. Moore's people that we 
get to talk to, like Theresa Benson and these other people that 
our other members have made friends with them to put us at this 
table today, and also our lobbyists back here. I know we aren't 
supposed to say too much about lobbyists when we are in these 
areas.
    But us Tule River people, we love the people that work for 
us, they become family to us, just like you guys will to us 
when we go home. It is always what you can give, instead of 
what you can take, for us Tule River people. We are trying to 
give our medicine to whoever can use it to save these trees. 
So, that is why we are here today. That is why I am right here 
representing our tribe.
    Mrs. Peltola. Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I do 
appreciate the fact that you are at the table and volunteering 
your time and energy to provide kind of that deep-time 
perspective, the longer time frame, and some of the management 
tools that have been in your toolbox for a long time.
    With that, I yield back my time, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
    The Chairman. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair 
recognizes the gentlelady from American Samoa.
    Mrs. Radewagen, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Chairman Westerman and Ranking 
Member Grijalva, for holding this hearing today. And thank you 
to Speaker McCarthy and the rest of my colleagues for your 
bipartisan work on this important issue. And thank you to the 
panel for your testimony.
    The sequoias are to the Western United States what the 
coral reefs are to the Pacific. Not only are they incredibly 
important to the local ecology, but they also hold deep 
cultural and traditional significance.
    Vice Chairman Nieto, in your testimony you highlight how 
the Federal Government must work alongside the tribes in 
management and preservation efforts. I would love to hear from 
you about the spiritual significance of the sequoia and more 
about what we can learn from emulating traditional forestry 
practices passed down by Native peoples. You touched on that a 
little bit earlier. Can you please speak a little bit more 
about how this is not just important from a logistical 
standpoint, but also reflective of our obligation to the tribes 
to protect their way of life?
    Mr. Nieto. Yes, ma'am. We have a thing we have been 
teaching Mr. Moore's people, it is a cultural burning that we 
also learn at a young age. With the debris that is around these 
trees, you could only pile the wood so high, or the stuff you 
are going to burn that way around these trees, or anywhere, 
actually. We protect pretty much every tree we can because of 
our deer, because of our bears. Our bears are real sacred 
animals to us, and our mountain lions. We are not able to kill 
them, so they also need a place to be.
    And when we burn these debris around these trees or any 
trees to protect our forest, we can only stack them so high 
because, just like the soil, if you burn your pile too high, 
you are going to burn everything that is under the ground and 
it is going to make a black mark on the ground where it is too 
hot.
    We call it cultural burning so people could understand it 
in the European language, in this language we speak today here. 
But if we don't burn at a certain height, then that ground will 
get burned and nothing will ever grow again. So, when you do a 
cultural burning, it is kind of like putting the seeds in the 
oven, and then you are going to get whatever cupcake or cake or 
even your turkey on Thanksgiving to come out good. You always 
have to have a degree with cultural burning.
    So, with that going on, we are trying to teach Mr. Moore's 
people that way, so they can learn how to protect the redwoods 
on their side of the mountain, because we are not savages and 
settlers anymore. We are all trying to be human beings and 
neighbors. And we are able to give up what we know now, instead 
of keeping it to ourselves, so it doesn't look like we are 
trying to hoard everything. But we have been doing this since 
we have been on this Earth. And we are just trying to be 
neighborly now. Before, we didn't want anyone to come borrow 
sugar from us. Now we are giving them all the sugar we can, 
from your land, of course. I still like C&H.
    Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    The Chairman. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes the gentlelady from California, Ms. Kamlager-Dove.
    You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you 
all for attending today. I have a couple of questions, and I 
think my first question will go to Dr. Nelson.
    Is low to moderate severity fire good for giant sequoia 
groves?
    Dr. Nelson. Yes. They evolved with low to moderate severity 
fire from lightning strikes and Indigenous cultural burning 
that clears out the duff. The cones are semi-serotinous, which 
means, in this case, they need heat to open. And that is where 
the seed source comes from. So, then you have seed rain falling 
down and the removal of that duff. The seeds germinate better 
in mineral soil.
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. Great. Is it also because low to 
moderate severity fire can help reduce the probability of a 
high severity in a subsequent fire?
    Dr. Nelson. That is also correct. Reducing fuels, which has 
many forms, burn piles and prescribed burning are one, but 
reducing fuels in low and moderate severity fire can reduce the 
risk of high severity fire.
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. Thank you. According to Federal fire 
severity and prescribed fire data, since 1984, over 92 percent 
of the total giant sequoia grove area has burned, and 87 
percent of what has burned since then experienced low to 
moderate severity, or a low severity prescribed fire. Wouldn't 
that mean that most groves have experienced a relatively recent 
fuel reduction, reducing the probability of a high severity 
fire over the next several years?
    Dr. Nelson. So, that is a really good area of open 
questions where we know from remote sensing this is low 
severity or moderate severity, and then we have current 
research proposals. We need to go see what that means, right?
    So, a given, I will say pixel, because that is how our 
remote sensing comes back--a given pixel labeled low severity 
could look very different on the ground than any other labeled 
low severity. And we need to be able to go check to ground 
truth and look at, oh, there are areas that still need 
treatment, that still need forest prescriptions, and then other 
areas where it may be that wildfires, where they have burned at 
low and moderate severity, have done some of that forest 
treatment. It is just that they come along with high severity 
patches that are close to complete mortality, and also seed 
loss.
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. So, what would you say is the urgency of 
this bill if only a small fraction of the groves haven't 
experienced fire recently, and if high severity fire has been a 
relatively small or containable component, even in recent 
fires?
    Dr. Nelson. There is still plenty of work to do. Other 
panelists and Chairman Westerman have mentioned ladder fuels. 
Again, even though fires have come through, they come through 
in irregular shapes, and come partway into the grove and not 
into the rest. So, it is correct that most of the grove area 
has burned in the last 6 years. There is still urgency to do 
treatment, to make silvicultural prescriptions, and do the work 
to clear out an overload of fuels.
    We have an example from a property that we steward as Save 
the Redwoods League in Alder Creek Grove, where, it is roughly 
a rectangle, a strip across the northern area and southern area 
burned at high severity. We are going to need to do replanting 
of seedlings there, because there is no seed source. In the 
middle, it was untouched by fire, and we are still going to 
need to do thinning. We have the extremes. We have mass 
mortality or nothing. And that middle area still needs 
treatment.
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. So, we don't have a lot of fire--I mean, 
we don't have a lot of forests in Los Angeles, where I come 
from. But I do represent California, and have had my fair share 
of trips up north. I will have to say I think part of the 
reason we are here is because we, as Americans, as people, have 
misplaced hostility toward fire. I think the fear of fire is 
what brought us to this place where we are today, where we 
really have a reason to fear fire.
    I would also add that I do believe that it is the process 
of colonization that has really limited Indigenous fire 
stewardship practices, and we have to get back to that. It has 
led to radical ecological changes, including high fuel loads, 
decreased habitat for large game, reduction in the quantity of 
acorns, and alteration of growth patterns of basketry 
materials. And I think we do have an obligation to go back to 
Indigenous fire practices and that kind of stewardship if we 
are going to re-examine our relationship both with Mother Earth 
and with our forestry.
    Thank you, and with that I yield back, Mr. Chair.
    The Chairman. The gentlelady's time has expired. The Chair 
recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. LaMalfa, for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this 
hearing, and on this very important subject to our state. I 
live in far northern California, and have enjoyed the area of 
the sequoias over the years as our kids go down to the Hume 
Lake Christian Camp many times there, as we travel the area and 
enjoy the majesty of those amazing trees.
    But I also want to acknowledge, too, in recent years I have 
been very disturbed by the number of trees as we are traveling 
Highway 80 and the other side roads in those forested areas, 
not in the sequoia areas, but the surrounding, that looks like 
50 percent of the trees in those dense forests are gray and 
dead. And it just scares me for what a tinder box that is. So, 
I am going to direct a question to Chief Moore here.
    The previous questioning here is how much does this have to 
do with climate change or global warming. That isn't what makes 
trees grow densely. It is the lack of management and getting at 
it. So, pace and scale is that term I am going to keep using, 
that we have to vastly increase our pace and scale of doing 
forestry work, instead of these half measures we have been 
doing so long. And I know you are tied up with lawsuits, and 
environmentalists are suing all the time over the easiest 
projects, Randy. And it is frustrating for all of us. But we 
have to get real about this, because when that goes up there 
off that Highway 180 area, I don't know how you are going to 
stop it with the density you have.
    So, let me get to one of the major concerns noted by the 
John Muir Project is that this bill is a sneaky way to 
reinstitute old growth logging in our public lands. Do you 
think this is actually a valid concern?
    Mr. Moore. I have not heard that. Are you talking about the 
SOS bill?
    Mr. LaMalfa. On our sequoias bill, yes.
    Mr. Moore. No, I don't believe that at all, from what I 
understand of the bill.
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK, thank you. Yes, I don't think so either, 
but it might be construed that way.
    What precautions have we taken in the bill so that your 
agency will be able to ensure these old-growth forests are 
conserved----
    Mr. Moore. Well, as I indicated earlier, the intent of the 
bill we agree, and we think it is really good. There are some 
concerns that we have, particularly with the reporting 
requirements. In some of the areas it is redundant in some of 
the authorities we have. But we are happy to work with this 
Committee on those areas to make sure that we can more 
appropriately meet the intent of the bill.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Yes, we want to be effective, not redundant.
    Mr. Moore. Yes.
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK, thank you. Indeed, it is a bipartisan 
bill. I hoped it would be more of a victory lap here today, but 
it is one of a long line of bills that are categorical 
exclusions to do a decent amount of work on Federal lands, so 
we can do our jobs more efficiently and effectively, in spite 
of what NEPA frequently requires. So, I am grateful we have 
these CEs, and that they are usually pretty widely supported.
    But the necessity and the frequency that we need to do 
these CEs, it is the result, again, of the NEPA policy being so 
overbearing on doing basic work. So, every time we want to do 
one like this to save the sequoias, we have to overcome these 
restrictions we have in NEPA. Under the current authorities, 
how long would it take, do you think, to treat what are the 19 
most at-risk groves of giant sequoias. How long do you think it 
would take to treat it under current?
    Mr. Moore. Well, I will tell you what we are treating so 
far, in terms of the giant sequoia.
    Mr. LaMalfa. No, I am asking how long do you think it will 
take for us to be able to take these 19 groves out of the risk 
zone under the current pace?
    Mr. Moore. So, we are going to take 12 of the 19. We should 
have those done by next year.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Twelve of nineteen.
    Mr. Moore. Certainly, there is more to be done, but that is 
based on the resources that we have.
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK. Because we have estimates through our 
Committee here that it might take up to 52 years, having to go 
the CE route under current pace, and we don't have that much 
time to risk, especially as you drive 180 up there.
    So, if we get this bill done, though, how long do you think 
it will take to secure these 19 groves?
    Mr. Moore. Well, the bill is one piece, and that is 
probably a necessary piece with some changes and some 
additions. But it also depends, Congressman, as you know, on 
the resources that are provided to actually do the work on the 
ground.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Well, I think we will take care of the 
resources. If you have them, how long do you think it will 
take?
    Mr. Moore. I mean, we have, I believe, 19 of those. We are 
treating 12 of those, and we are treating those 12 in about a 
2-year time frame.
    Mr. LaMalfa. So, do you think you can get it done in, let's 
say 4, 5, 6 years if we had the resources on the last seven?
    Mr. Moore. Well, I don't know. If you provide the 
resources, I would certainly----
    Mr. LaMalfa. That is what we do. We need to hear from you 
what you need, and the authority to do it. That is what we are 
after. How long would it take to do it?
    Mr. Moore. I have never been able to get everything that I 
would like to have. So, it always depends on what Congress 
provides us in terms of resources.
    Mr. LaMalfa. All right. Do you think this bill sufficiently 
increases the pace and scale I am talking about to address this 
problem we are dealing with?
    Mr. Moore. I think it has the intent, and the intention----
    Mr. LaMalfa. The intent. So, you are not sure? Yes or no.
    Mr. Moore. Well, as I indicated earlier, I think the bill 
could be strengthened. And I talked about the reporting 
requirements and those things that are redundant in our 
existing authorities.
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK.
    Mr. Moore. We would be very interested in working with this 
Committee on those areas where we do have some concerns, 
Congressman.
    Mr. LaMalfa. OK.
    The Chairman. The gentleman's time----
    Mr. LaMalfa. I just wonder how many more CEs do we have to 
pass before we can determine that we have a broken process?
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    The Chairman. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair 
now recognizes the gentlelady from New Mexico, Ms. Leger 
Fernandez, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Chair Westerman, for 
bringing us all together, in many senses, to honor the sequoias 
and have each of us walk through our own memory lane of what we 
have done under those giant sequoias. I was able to camp in 
Kings Canyon under the sequoias, because nobody goes to Kings 
Canyon. Everybody stops at the giant sequoias and never makes 
it over to Kings Canyon, where you can actually pitch your tent 
under the giant trees and listen to the water rushing by.
    I wanted to really build on the beautiful comments that 
Vice Chair Nieto provided us. Last year, I chaired a hearing in 
the Subcommittee for Indigenous Peoples on Indigenous cultural 
and environmental preservation, where, similar to you, Ms. 
Elizabeth Azzuz told us about her work to re-establish 
traditional burns in forests, which can create healthier forest 
ecosystems and strengthen tribal cultural practices. And we 
have heard once again directly about the gift that fire indeed 
brings, and about how you are so willing to share with us and, 
in fact, take us to cooking school to share with us exactly how 
you work on that.
    Could you describe a bit more about the work that you do 
working with restoring the sequoias, and how that might indeed 
provide lessons to your colleagues who you are, as I 
understand, in collaboration with on this effort to save the 
giant sequoias?
    Mr. Nieto. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Yes, we have been doing 
this, like I said, for a long time, since I have been walking.
    And we had decided to invite Mr. Moore's people from our 
neighbor's side, the Springville side, or Kings Canyon, or 
anybody that wanted to come to our land and witness the 
controlled burning, learn the controlled burning, so we invited 
them to our meadows and did some controlled burning there with 
one of our friends from the North Fork Tribe, an elder, Ron 
Good. He came back and helped us out because in our way--of 
course, probably in your way, where you come from, our elders 
are the main people we have to listen to.
    So, when we bring someone in, we wanted them to know how it 
goes throughout the land, and that we are all, even though we 
are not the same tribe, we are all the same people. And that is 
how we wanted to treat Mr. Moore's people, as our neighbors, 
and to walk them into our land, and to show them that we are 
not trying to keep this way, but we would like you guys to 
practice it because it will help save our side of the land, as 
well as yours. Because if you don't practice this way in a good 
way, then your land is going to burn, and our land is going to 
burn with yours because your burn is going to come to our side 
and burn our side down also, because you are not keeping your 
yard clean is a good way to say it, I mean.
    So, that is why we invited them over, and then we did a 
burn this last year. So, when the snow finally melts up there 
where we did the meadows, we are going to welcome them back 
again so they can see how the seedlings came up, and what 
actually grew, and how it brings back everything that was there 
from centuries to yesterday. So, they are going to get to see, 
and seeing is believing.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Is that this year?
    Mr. Nieto. Yes, this year. We are looking forward to that. 
And, hopefully, all our gods together will bring those plants 
to life so they can believe that this is actually a real thing 
that is really possible.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you so much, Mr. Vice Chair. And 
I liken your testimony where you actually pointed that this 
beautiful trip that I think all of us really want to be on with 
you is indeed science, right, it is science, and we need to 
recognize it.
    The other thing that I would like to have you touch on 
really quickly is the role of the tribal historic preservation 
officers, because we want to make sure that we don't eliminate 
the importance of the role that tribal historic preservation 
officers play in both the work that you are doing in the 
sequoias--because the tribes have always been involved--but the 
work that is done across this country.
    And we heard testimony that, basically, we don't fund our 
Tribal Historic Preservation Officers sufficiently. They get 
about $75,000 a year, which is inadequate. Do you involve your 
Tribal Preservation Historic Officers in your work, your TPHOs?
    Mr. Nieto. Yes. We never really needed a TPHO officer, 
because we all, like I said, the ones that are cultured, we 
already knew how to work our system, and we are born into it. 
But with all the little hoops you have to jump most of the 
time, we had to establish a TPHO officer. So, ours is actually 
getting into place now, and we don't get any money to support 
it. We have to use our subsidy to support that position now.
    So, we are trying to look into getting more resources 
because, even though we do have gaming, and everybody thinks 
that gaming is the answer to everything, most of our gaming as 
a tribe we put toward our programs, and that TPHO program will 
be one of them.
    And we are not in it for the money, we are in it for 
survival. And just like the trees, they are in it for us to 
protect them. And that is what we want to do. And it is not 
only our sequoias that we want to protect----
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. I hear the 
little pounding of the gavel to close the conversation.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Nieto. Oh, my bad, yes. I usually get that.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. You are bringing important 
information. I am sorry that we do have those timelines.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Bentz [presiding]. Thank you. And with that we 
recognize Mr. Stauber for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Stauber. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chief Moore, we have lost 20 percent of the world's mature 
giant sequoias due to high severity fire in just these past 2 
years. Despite this, yesterday my staff received an e-mail from 
the John Muir Project opposing this legislation because, and I 
quote, ``Moderate and high severity fire means continued life 
for giant sequoias and their ecosystems.'' Chief Moore, would 
you agree or disagree that the giant sequoias need more high 
severity fires?
    Mr. Moore. Congressman, I think the emergency situation we 
find ourselves in today is because of a combination of high 
severity fires in combination with overly-stocked, dense 
vegetation.
    Mr. Stauber. So, you don't agree that we need more high 
severity fires?
    Mr. Moore. What I am saying is high severity fires are the 
reason we have this emergency.
    Mr. Stauber. Right. Giant sequoias need low severity fires 
at intervals of roughly 30 times per century. Recent high 
severity fires have killed, not helped, giant sequoias.
    And then sequoias do need fire to regenerate, but recent 
high severity fires have burned with such intensity there are 
many areas that are unlikely to naturally regenerate. Chief 
Moore, given this fact, would you agree that high severity 
fires are not beneficial for sequoia regeneration, as suggested 
by the John Muir Project?
    Mr. Moore. High severity fires are not beneficial to giant 
sequoias.
    Mr. Stauber. In October 2021, the editorial board of the 
Sacramento Bee released the following editorial about the John 
Muir Project, and I quote, ``By weaponizing Federal protections 
such as the National Environmental Policy Act and the 
Endangered Species Act to obstruct or outright kill various 
wildfire prevention projects, environmentalists imperil the 
very ecosystems they wish to protect. Organizations like the 
John Muir Project have been accused by leading experts of 
spreading agenda-driven science that promotes specific, 
unsupported narratives, and avoids data to back up their 
litigious claims. At least 111 scientists have co-authored at 
least 41 scientific papers to rebut their dubious methods.''
    Amazingly, this organization was also involved in blocking 
a forest management project at Yosemite National Park designed 
to protect giant sequoias. Two days later, a fire breaks out in 
the Mariposa Grove of giant sequoias at Yosemite. Chief Moore, 
can you please discuss how litigation and the threat of 
litigation can imperil the work of land managers to protect 
iconic species like the giant sequoia?
    Mr. Moore. Yes, Congressman. What I can tell you is, 
particularly in some parts of the United States and in some 
regions of the Forest Service, litigation can and does have an 
impact on projects. And sometimes they get delayed to the point 
where we are waiting for the courts to make a decision.
    And it depends on what is the purpose of the NEPA to begin 
with. Let's just say that you had a fire, and you want to do a 
salvage sale out there. Burnt timber only has so long before 
the value goes. So, if the project is delayed long enough, then 
the purpose and need for that salvage evaporates.
    Mr. Stauber. Right. In the interest of time, you mentioned 
NEPA. Based on your understanding of the bill, does it waive 
any requirements for the agency to comply with environmental 
laws like NEPA?
    Mr. Moore. No, Congressman, it doesn't.
    Mr. Stauber. OK.
    Mr. Moore. It is compatible.
    Mr. Stauber. Chief Moore, opponents of this bill have 
suggested this legislation would hand over all decision-making 
authority for giant sequoias to the Giant Sequoia Lands 
Coalition. Based on your understanding, is there anything in 
this legislation that would remove the Forest Service's 
decision-making authority for giant sequoias on National Forest 
System lands?
    Mr. Moore. No, sir. My reading of the bill, the authority 
resides with the Forest Service.
    Mr. Stauber. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Representative 
Ocasio-Cortez for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This overall bill 
dedicates $200 million over the next 7 years to address the 
impact of the climate crisis on the sequoias. And these 
appropriations look almost identical to the Senate version of 
Senator Feinstein's bill, as well.
    But when we look closer at this House version introduced by 
Speaker McCarthy, we see that, unlike the Senate version, this 
version does seem to compromise our bedrock environmental laws 
like the National Environmental Protection Act.
    Additionally, we have also seen from Speaker McCarthy that 
any new spending must be accompanied by cuts to existing 
spending. And I do believe that it is important for the 
Committee to understand what $200 million cuts the Speaker 
intends to impose in order for us to make these important 
investments.
    But let's dig further into this bill. Mr. Desai, I would 
like to understand what emergency actions are already taking 
place at our national parks to restore and conserve giant 
sequoia groves, and can you describe current efforts that are 
currently underway?
    Mr. Desai. Thank you for your question. As I was mentioning 
in my opening statement, specific to Yosemite and Sequoia Kings 
Canyon, Yosemite has already been advancing biomass removal and 
thinning projects in Tuolumne and Merced Grove. They are also 
continuing work at the Mariposa Grove. And what we just saw 
recently, which we are thankful for, is Sequoia Kings Canyon 
has this Sequoia Protection Action Plan that lays out in 3 
years how they plan to accomplish all of their priority fuels 
reduction treatments. So, from what we are seeing, there is 
action taking place by the National Park Service.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you. And in your view, has NEPA 
been an obstacle to these conservation efforts?
    Mr. Desai. They have not. I mean, the Park Service is 
working within their existing authorities. And our interest 
here has been to scale that up. And the way we see that scaling 
up is by actually getting funding and resources so that they 
and this coalition can do their work.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you. And is that what you would 
say are the primary obstacles to improving these conservation 
efforts, just the funding and additional resources? Are there 
any additional obstacles that you see in your purview?
    Mr. Desai. Well, there is stuff at the state level like air 
quality-related issues that Dr. Nelson mentioned, but that is a 
state issue.
    But at the Federal level, what we are seeing is that it is 
funding and staffing. You know, a CE, a categorical exclusion, 
can move as fast as we have people working on it. If we have a 
compliance person spread across 10 projects, that is 10 percent 
working on this. And we would like these expedited processes to 
be maximized as quickly as possible, and that means we need 
staffing and money.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Yes, and I wanted to kind of touch on 
that.
    I would like to seek unanimous consent from the Chair to 
introduce into the record the Sequoia and Kings County National 
Park Sequoia Grove Action Plan.
    Mr. Bentz. Without objection.

    [The information follows:]

Submission for the Record by Rep. Ocasio-Cortez

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mr. Desai, do you happen to be familiar 
with this report?
    Mr. Desai. Yes.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And this action plan does lay out a 3-
year timetable for caring for the sequoia groves. But it also 
notes that the action plan is ``subject to staffing 
availability,'' to your note. Do you believe that this plan is 
achievable, given current staffing levels, and what would 
appropriate staffing levels look like for us?
    Mr. Desai. Yes, that is what the Park Service has said. And 
when we enter fire season, staffing is deployed to all these 
other uses, right? So, we need dedicated folks to this exact 
sequoia protection project. And I think the needs have been 
identified, at least by Sequoia Kings Canyon. I don't know what 
that exact number is, off the top of my head, but that is what 
we need to fund. Or at least get the Administration to release 
funds, because Congress has provided through the BIL, through 
the Inflation Reduction Act, the funding that can be used for 
this exact purpose. So, that is where we think we would like to 
spend some of our attention.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Wonderful, thank you. And this action 
plan does not require changes to NEPA or any bedrock 
environmental laws, correct?
    Mr. Desai. It is working within the existing authorities 
for the Park Service.
    Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you. With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Representative 
Hageman for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Hageman. Good morning, and thank you.
    For decades, Federal regulations have limited the ability 
of Federal and state agencies, as well as our tribes, to 
properly manage our national forests. Many Western forests, 
including in my home state of Wyoming, are dying from bark 
beetle attacks and extreme wildfires. Many radical 
environmental groups have weaponized the Federal process 
through serial litigation, resulting in the tightening of 
Federal grip on our public lands. And these serial litigants 
don't just cause uncertainty for farmers, ranchers, and 
producers; they also cripple our ability to manage our forests 
with preventative wildfire and harvesting techniques throughout 
the West.
    Such was the case in the unfortunate burning of the 
Mariposa Grove of giant sequoias, and by weaponizing Federal 
protections such as NEPA and the ESA, serial litigators blocked 
management projects that land managers identified as crucial to 
protecting giant sequoias in Yosemite National Park. And such 
is the case with many of our western forests, including in 
Wyoming, which still suffer from unwise and destructive 
management policies such as the 2001 roadless rule that 
negatively impacted forest health and sustainability.
    Unfortunately, our tribes disproportionately bear the brunt 
of these harmful Federal policies, resulting in the destruction 
of many treasured and sacred landscapes. In 2021 alone, nearly 
400,000 acres of Federal Indian reservation lands were burned 
by wildfires. The proximity and interconnectedness of Federal 
tribal lands and lands managed by the U.S. Forest Service and 
the Department of the Interior requires the highest level of 
accountability of our Federal employees for appropriate 
wildfire prevention efforts, or lack thereof.
    Mr. Nieto, you have made it clear that the SOS Act will 
improve the ability of the Tule River Indian Tribe of 
California to collaborate with forest managers and ultimately 
expedite wildfire prevention activities. With regard to your 
past experience, can you please talk about the impact to tribal 
lands when Federal lands are not managed appropriately?
    Mr. Nieto. Yes, ma'am. Like I said, we had two fires that 
hit our reservation. One was natural, from the lightning, the 
Windy Fire, and then another one was a car wreck on the 
Springville side of the river over there. And since they didn't 
manage their land too well, without the clearings that they 
needed to do as people, that fire came raging over our 
mountains and burned a lot of our fires before we could get to 
it.
    And both sides of the mountain are very steep and rough 
terrain, so we understand some of the stuff that they couldn't, 
but where the fire had started, if they would have controlled a 
little bit of that better, it probably wouldn't have gotten so 
far, it probably wouldn't have jumped the river.
    With that being said, it is easy to point fingers after 
something is done, but it is hard when all these guys get to 
make the rules, and we have to listen to them and obey them, 
when we could be protecting things.
    So, I am glad Mr. Moore's people are finally sitting down 
at the same table with us and welcoming us into the room. We 
actually opened up their new building in Porterville with them. 
And I just left there last week. They hired one of our tribal 
members as a liaison, so we are working pretty close with them 
now.
    Ms. Hageman. I am glad to hear that. That is great. Bad 
forest management can result in a catastrophic outcome, can't 
it?
    Mr. Nieto. Yes. And then also, too, like in my testimony 
about our water and our reservoir, our river is so decimated 
with less water nowadays that when it did come to our side, the 
reservation, we had nowhere for the helicopters to get water 
because our river was so shallow. So, they had to go off land 
to get water just to put our fire out.
    So, even though we controlled our land and cleaned it, 
there was no water for them to even try to put the smallest 
fire out. So, it kept burning. That is why our water thing was 
in our testimony today, because no matter what, we are still 
going to need water to fight fires, let alone to survive.
    Ms. Hageman. That is exactly right, and I appreciate your 
perspective.
    If there is no expedited process to care for these forests, 
such as the SOS Act, or if we don't act on this legislation, 
what will be the impact on your tribes, specifically in the 
next 10 to 20 years?
    Mr. Nieto. Well, we will never see those groves again. They 
will be gone.
    I welcome anybody that opposes this bill to come to our 
land and see the difference of both sides of what we are 
talking about, or what I am testifying today. I welcome anybody 
to Tule River that opposes this bill, so they can see how bad 
those trees burn. Those trees burned right in the middle of it. 
When I see that video of Jose crying, I am a grown man, and 
when I take myself back to seeing that for the first time, it 
still bothers me today because that is something that we love. 
We love everything that we have, and what little we have today, 
we try to protect as much as we can.
    Ms. Hageman. Again, I thank you so much for your 
perspective, and being here today. I thank all of the 
witnesses.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Mr. Peters for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Peters. Thank you so much. I want to thank Chairman 
Westerman, Congressmen Costa and Panetta, and all of our 
partners, including our tribal partners, for supporting this 
important legislation.
    The Save Our Sequoias Act is a comprehensive, bipartisan 
bill that will save an iconic species from extinction. It 
provides sufficient funding to staff and support sequoia 
protection projects, helping the Park Service and Forest 
Service scale their existing efforts. It provides clear 
statutory authority so land managers can take immediate 
emergency action with fewer legal risks. And it was developed 
with a group of local, state, Federal, and community 
representatives, and shares strong supports in Congress, with 
50 co-sponsors, including 23 Democrats. The Save Our Sequoias 
Act is the only bipartisan bill in Congress capable of 
protecting this species from extinction, and we should pass it 
right away.
    Dr. Nelson, Save the Redwoods League is a science-based 
organization that manages redwoods and giant sequoia. In your 
expert opinion, are the giant sequoias facing an emergency 
threat from extreme wildfire?
    Dr. Nelson. Yes, they are.
    Mr. Peters. Do you agree that ecological thinning, 
mechanical and handcrew treatments, and pile and prescribed 
burning are critically important to protect sequoia groves from 
the risks of wildfire?
    Dr. Nelson. I do. You have listed a suite of tools, and we 
are going to have experts such as registered professional 
foresters giving specific prescriptions to specific places and, 
yes, they are going to be drawing on those tools.
    Mr. Peters. Great.
    Chief Moore, in June 2022, the Forest Service announced it 
would take emergency actions, including the authorities 
codified in our Save the Sequoias Act, to protect giant 
sequoias in 12 out of the 37 U.S. Forest Service-managed 
groves, which you have discussed before, and thank you for 
doing that.
    These emergency actions were taken prior to the completion 
of a formal NEPA analysis. Why did the Forest Service choose to 
use its emergency authorities proactively to protect giant 
sequoias?
    Mr. Moore. I would like to start by saying that the action 
that we took was NEPA. It was authorities that we have had in 
place since, I think, about 1989, and it is called the 
alternative arrangements. That is basically where we develop an 
action alternative, and begin to implement the work without 
having an objection period. That was the authority we used.
    So far, we have approved six projects, and we have a number 
of other projects in the pipeline working their way up.
    Mr. Peters. How does the Forest Service balance the need to 
conduct forest treatments quickly, while still conducting sound 
environmental analysis?
    Mr. Moore. Well, we think it is important to have sound 
environmental analysis. What we also think is it is important 
to have a streamlined approach to how we do that analysis. And 
looking at the traditional ways that we do business is 
categorical exclusion, environmental assessment, environmental 
impact statements. And each of those depends on the level of 
significance.
    We are finding that we are able to streamline our 
processes. And to give you an idea, 85 percent of all of our 
projects now are done with categorical exclusion, and that is 
up from about 70 percent as long as 10 years ago. And a big 
part of that is just streamlining the process, but also 
educating the workforce on when and where to use the right 
tool.
    Mr. Peters. Well, you have a pragmatic approach to getting 
the job done within all the legal framework that you have, and 
also with the resources you have. And I think we are trying to 
help you with that with this bill.
    And Mr. Desai, the Save Our Sequoias Act would provide over 
$200 million in funding to support giant sequoia protection 
projects. How would this funding help scale the Park Service's 
existing efforts to protect giant sequoias from extreme fire?
    Mr. Desai. Thank you for the question. We need money, a 
combination of Congress appropriating money and the 
Administration, what they have releasing it to these agencies 
for the National Park Service. They have this 3-year action 
plan, Sequoia, but this work is going to continue. It is not 
just we are doing it for 3 years or we are doing it for 7 
years, right? It is going to continue over the long term, and 
really bringing back the combination of traditional ecological 
knowledge, the work that these agencies have been doing to keep 
fire into this environment.
    So, the money is needed. It needs to be appropriated as 
soon as it can. I think it gives these agencies certainty so 
that they can plan, yes.
    Mr. Peters. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thanks 
again for being here.
    Look, this strikes me as one of the easier challenges we 
are going to have on this wildfire issue. If we can't come 
together on sequoias, I think it is going to be much more 
difficult for us to address the larger wildfire issues that we 
have in California, Oregon, Washington, and across the West. We 
have a lot of work to do, and I am looking forward to working 
with you all and with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle 
to deal with what really is a huge risk for the environment and 
for our way of life. So again, I thank you for your expertise.
    And Mr. Vice Chairman, in particular, thank you for the 
constructive input you have had as a tribe. It is very, very 
helpful to us. We very much appreciate it.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Mr. Fulcher for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. Fulcher. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, Mr. Chairman, I 
assume that Chief Moore is expecting me to talk to him about 
Good Neighbor Authority again, because I think every time I 
talk with him, that is a broken record, and I know he hears 
that a lot. But I am not going to do that today because there 
is another person here that I would like to talk to about the 
same thing, and that is Vice Chairman Nieto.
    Thank you for being here, and for your insight. And also, I 
feel I should just explain right up front that my motive here 
is hopefully to embrace you to help me sell Mr. Moore on the 
Good Neighbor Authority, although I think he has been very 
receptive to it. But that is the basis of my question.
    And as you know, this bill, it would expand the Good 
Neighbor Authority to tribes in relation to the giant sequoias. 
And I would just ask you to the extent you are familiar with 
that, and just what you think about that, and is that something 
that you believe would be beneficial both for the environment 
and for the tribes?
    Mr. Nieto. Yes, I think not only my tribe, but also other 
tribes are willing to help Mr. Moore and his people, as well as 
the United States and anywhere we go because like I said, those 
trees are not only something that we need, those trees mean a 
lot to us as a tribe.
    They are our ancestors, like I said. We heard earlier today 
that they precede the Mayflower, they precede maybe even 
Christ, which most people don't like to get into. But without 
that, without saving these trees and other trees, where do you 
take your kids when you talk about the forest? You know what I 
mean? Where do you take the future generations when there are 
no trees left? Where do you go? You can't just go to the beach 
all the time. Some people like to go to the mountains, and if 
there are no trees to see, then you have nothing.
    And I can only speak for my tribe, but we are right in the 
door with Mr. Moore's people, and we welcome them any time they 
want to come. Our land is open to them.
    Mr. Fulcher. Mr. Nieto, on a related note, in your written 
testimony, you spoke about preventative work that your tribe 
does and did specifically prior to the Windy Fire, which was so 
devastating. Talk about that preventive work just a little bit. 
I know you have touched on it, but I am going to ask you to 
touch on it again because I think we can all learn the 
importance of preventative work, and clearing of growth, and so 
on.
    Mr. Nieto. Yes, sir. An easy picture for you guys or 
anybody that is opposed to this is, a firefighter makes a 
firebreak to stop the fire from burning. Then he backburns that 
fire. So, to put a firebreak, as per se, around these big 
trees, these monarchs, as you guys say, that we call the 
ancestors, it helps prevent them from even getting touched. And 
then their bark actually could just feel the warmth of the 
fire.
    When someone says they need the fire to breathe, to 
actually live, they are actually right. But the fire doesn't 
have to get right up to their porch and burn the roots of them, 
because once you burn the roots of them there is no soil to 
hold them there, and then they fall. We have seen that, and we 
witnessed that on the BLM side of our land.
    And we watch these trees break in half from the middle of 
them. And to see some of them break in half is something I 
never thought I would see in my lifetime, just like our river 
never going dry. I never thought I would see that in my 
lifetime. But I have seen both. And it is pretty painful to 
see, as a person that loves the land, and that has been taught 
to respect the land.
    Mr. Fulcher. Thank you.
    Mr. Nieto. The only thing that we would probably want to do 
is take Mr. Moore's job. But I don't want to move to DC, so I 
would like to stay where I am at.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Fulcher. Yes, I don't blame you for that, Mr. Nieto. 
Thank you for the input.
    Mr. Moore, thank you for being a good sport, and for 
listening to me again, just indirectly this time, regarding 
Good Neighbor Authority. But it is a good thing. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Ranking Member 
Grijalva for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Grijalva. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Desai, I want to ask you some questions about the 
ongoing restoration efforts regarding the sequoias, obviously, 
and to re-emphasize some points.
    This is a critical piece of bipartisan legislation, it 
needs to be a priority. Protecting the sequoias needs to be a 
priority. But I just want to reaffirm three points that have 
come up during these discussions.
    From your perspective, does the Park Service need new 
authority to be able to protect and save the sequoias?
    Mr. Desai. When it comes to the compliance and categorical 
exclusions? No. I mean, there----
    Mr. Grijalva. Is there active litigation? Because we heard 
about that today and constantly. Is there active litigation on 
the current emergency actions that are being undertaken?
    Mr. Desai. No, not to my knowledge for the Park Service or 
the Forest Service.
    Mr. Grijalva. And the factors that are really needed right 
now to continue the ongoing work and to scale up?
    Mr. Desai. Yes. Just to restate, it is funding, it is 
staffing, it is everything from the people on the ground during 
the summer where we can have dedicated folks making sure that 
we are clipping through this 3-year program, and the resource 
is not being diverted toward other important things like 
wildfires, which staff will get diverted.
    Right now, the Park Service does not have the resources to 
carry all of this stuff out, but also it is a compliance issue, 
if we want to really maximize these categorical exclusions and 
make use of them, we need people to be actually working on 
them. And the problem is that they are spread thin, and we are 
not giving them the resources to expedite as fast as we want 
and scale up. That is the goal, right? Scaling up.
    Mr. Grijalva. Thank you.
    Dr. Nelson, can you briefly discuss how warming 
temperatures caused by fossil fuel consumption are impacting 
the giant sequoias in the short term and the long term?
    Dr. Nelson. Yes. I will start with a study in the Western 
United States that shows that human-caused climate change has 
doubled the forest fire area since 1984. And that parsed out 
human-caused climate change from all forms. So, climate change 
is making the problem worse. In the giant sequoia, it leads to 
warming air temperatures and land temperatures. We have drier 
fuels that are more flammable.
    Mr. Grijalva. Thank you very much.
    Chief Moore, one of the issues is having the capacity, i.e. 
the resources, to be able to implement at a more rapid scale 
and at a higher scale, what is ongoing right now in terms of 
the Forest Service and the protection of sequoias. If 
projections are accurate--and I believe they are--in terms of 
what the recently-passed budget on the part of the Majority, 
the Republican Majority, here in the House, what impact would 
that resource issue that seems to be central to the discussion 
of response and long-term protection to sequoias, what would 
that do?
    Mr. Moore. Congressman, I have not been briefed on the 
potential impacts of the proposed budget. Right now, we are 
looking at the Administration's budget and what it would mean 
to these efforts going forward.
    Mr. Grijalva. And I think I would like to at some point, as 
we go forward with the proposed--there is not a lot of 
specificity to it, but let's pick a percentage, 22 percent cut 
in non-defense areas. What would that do in terms of the 
response?
    But that is something you can forward to us. It is a 
general question. You haven't been briefed on it, so we will 
hold for that one.
    Mr. Moore. I am happy to.
    Mr. Grijalva. Chief Moore, the other question I want to 
switch to is to focus on the land transfer of Oak Flat. And I 
decided to shift to that question because my colleague making 
the very valid point of the treasured and sacred tribal lands 
that need to be protected and taken care of. So, I switched to 
that.
    Oak Flat will be transferred to this foreign-owned 
Resolution Copper mining company after USDA releases its final 
EIS in the near future. In 2021, the Biden administration 
rescinded the FEIS and re-initiated the consultation process 
with the Arizona Tribes. While I appreciate this decision and 
the Biden administration's Memorandum on Uniform Standards for 
Tribal Consultation, I am concerned about the fact that the 
agency has not re-initiated formal tribal consultation with the 
San Carlos Apache Tribe.
    Before considering the publication of any updated EIS 
statement, I would implore USDA and your agency to conduct 
effective, meaningful consultations with the tribes in Arizona, 
and specifically the San Carlos Apache Tribe under the recent 
executive memorandum and the 2022 CEQ regulations. I leave that 
as more of a message than a question, Chief.
    Thank you very much. I yield back.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes himself for 5 
minutes.
    Do any of the witnesses believe that the giant sequoias are 
not in danger? If you think they are not in danger, raise your 
hand.
    Let the record reflect no one is raising their hand.
    Mr. Desai, you indicated that we should probably try to get 
the Administration to release funding. And by that I think you 
are talking to the so-called Inflation Reduction Act monies. 
And I would just look quickly here at some literature. It 
indicates that on January 19, 2023, just a few months ago, that 
Secretary Vilsack stepped up and said that they are going to 
release $490 million, and have, apparently. Is this the money 
you are talking about that is not being used to address this 
issue?
    Mr. Desai. Thank you for the question. There is a different 
provision. I believe it is a different provision that lists out 
certain amounts of money, and it actually specifies giant 
sequoias as being a potential beneficiary of that.
    There is also funding in there for staffing to support 
these types of compliance work, so we can move quickly on the 
categorical exclusions.
    And then just general--at least specifically for the 
National Park Service--money for staffing for resiliency 
projects like this giant sequoia restoration.
    So, that may be a funding source, but there are other ones 
too that could apply to helping them move forward this good 
work, and increase the pace and scale.
    Mr. Bentz. OK. So, I have listened to most of the hearing 
today, and I am trying to find out exactly why we aren't doing 
something. We have the money, big piles of it, but nothing--at 
least not enough--is happening. I hate to say nothing. 
Something has. We heard about it from Chief Moore. So, in your 
opinion, Mr. Desai, what is preventing that money from flowing 
out and saving these trees?
    Mr. Desai. Last year, I believe it was the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law that released funds that Congress had 
provided. I don't know exactly where the Park Service is in its 
process, but releasing the funds should be coming up soon. So, 
hopefully, that will be applicable to this. It is something 
that we would advocate for.
    Mr. Bentz. OK. Well, again, I am sure we would all advocate 
for it. What I am trying to do here is identify what we need to 
do now, today, to try to address what could be a huge issue in 
just a couple of months, as soon as all the snow goes off and 
all that water we all wanted produces a huge amount of 
undergrowth, and that leads to more fires.
    So, tell me, what can we do today to help? If the money is 
there, what is it that is slowing it down? What? I need you to 
tell me. If you don't know, then I am going to ask somebody 
else. But if you do, tell me.
    Mr. Desai. Open it up for anyone else here, but on my end I 
would say that we need to collectively advocate for any funding 
where sequoia restoration is eligible. That is one thing.
    And then separately, what can Congress do to actually 
appropriate monies so that over these coming years, this is 
going to be a multi-year process----
    Mr. Bentz. It is going to be--forgive me for interrupting, 
but $400, almost $500 million was just allocated a few months 
ago. That money has not been spent, and it could be focused on 
these trees.
    Supervisor Townsend, what, in your opinion, is preventing 
us from moving forward? Or in your opinion, are we doing just 
fine?
    Mr. Townsend. As I mentioned in my testimony, the NEPA and 
the ESA do provide an opportunity for litigation, and there are 
groups that, as was mentioned by other Congressmen today, 
groups that come out and say that this bill, these types of 
bills are going to cause us to reinstate bad forest practices, 
things like that. So, there is a hesitancy with the people that 
are in charge on the ground to actually implement some of these 
policies, even though maybe some funding has been provided. 
There is a hesitancy due to litigation.
    Mr. Bentz. For fear of a lawsuit being filed, nothing is 
happening, and these trees are being put at risk. So, that 
would be your opinion of what is stopping us from saving these 
trees, this fear. Is there some way we can overcome this fear?
    Mr. Townsend. Well, I would say that if we would go ahead 
and get this codified, that we could say, OK, we all agree now, 
Congress has provided this Act, that we can go ahead and move 
forward, and do it quickly. I think that providing that funding 
for a sustained period of time would be instrumental in getting 
that done.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you, and I want to thank all of our 
witnesses for your testimony. It has been extremely 
enlightening, and, of course, the Members for their questions.
    The members of the Committee may have some additional 
questions for our witnesses today, and we will ask that they 
respond to these in writing. Under Committee Rule 3, members of 
the Committee must submit questions to the Committee Clerk by 5 
p.m. on Monday, May 15, 2023. The hearing record will be held 
open for 10 business days for these responses.
    If there is no further business, without objection, the 
Committee on Natural Resources stands adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 12:36 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

            [ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD]

Submissions for the Record by Rep. McCarthy

                   Fresno County Board of Supervisors

                           Fresno, California

                                                 April 27, 2023    

Hon. Kevin McCarthy, Speaker
U.S. House of Representatives
Washington, DC 20515

Re: The Save Our Sequoias Act--SUPPORT

    Dear Speaker McCarthy:

    On behalf of the Fresno County Board of Supervisors, I am writing 
in support of the ``Save Our Sequoias Act'' (SOS Act) which would 
protect, enhance, and restore our Giant Sequoia groves here in Fresno 
County and adjacent counties.

    These ancient trees have survived several millennia only to be 
threatened by forest management practices over the last few decades. 
These practices have created a massive build-up of fuels in and around 
our Giant Sequoia groves. Although Giant Sequoias are naturally fire-
resilient, this accumulation of fuel has led to unnaturally intense, 
high-severity wildfires. In the last two years alone, these fires have 
decimated nearly one-fifth of all Giant Sequoias on the planet. With 
this expedited timeline of destruction, the very existence of our 
world-renowned Giant Sequoias is at risk.

    Significant action to mitigate the dangers of these wildfires 
through fuel reduction practices has been too slow due to lack of 
resources, environmental resistance, regulation, and litigation. At its 
current pace, it would take the U.S. Forest Service approximately 52 
years to treat just their 19 most at-risk Giant Sequoia groves. We need 
to take immediate action to secure the health and longevity of these 
groves.

    The SOS Act will provide land managers with the emergency tools and 
resources needed to save the remaining Giant Sequoia groves. The bill 
will improve interagency coordination between Federal, State, Tribal, 
and local land managers, through shared stewardship agreements. The SOS 
Act also establishes a comprehensive reforestation strategy to restore 
groves that have been lost to wildfire and funds a new grant program to 
facilitate increased hazardous fuel reduction practices. All this will 
take place under an expedited process provided by a declared emergency 
to codify existing emergency procedures, fast-track environmental 
reviews, while also maintaining robust scientific analysis.

    The SOS Act will ensure that our Giant Sequoia groves are healthy 
and thriving for generations to come. For these reasons, the Fresno 
County Board of Supervisors strongly supports the SOS Act.

            Sincerely,

                                              Sal Quintero,
                                                           Chairman

                                 ______
                                 

                    Kern County Board of Supervisors

                        Bakersfield, California

                                                 April 26, 2023    

Hon. Kevin McCarthy, Speaker
U.S. House of Representatives
2468 Rayburn House Office
Washington, DC 20515

Re: Save Our Sequoias Act (McCarthy & Peters)--SUPPORT

    Dear Speaker McCarthy:

    The Kern County Board of Supervisors is pleased to support the Save 
Our Sequoias (SOS) Act, which will enhance coordination between 
Federal, State, Tribal, and local land managers to accelerate science-
based forest treatments to improve the resilience of Giant Sequoias to 
the dangers of wildfire.

    Over a century of fire suppression mismanagement has created a 
massive build-up of hazardous fuels around the Giant Sequoias, leading 
to unnaturally intense wildfires. Since 2015, fires in California have 
destroyed nearly one-fifth of all Giant Sequoias.

    The County of Kern applauds the SOS Act's funding and establishment 
of a new grant program to support the implementation of hazardous fuels 
reduction treatments in and around Giant Sequoia groves. Additionally, 
the codification of expedited emergency procedures and environmental 
reviews along with comprehensive reforestation strategies to regenerate 
Giant Sequoias will help ensure the survival of one of California' s 
most revered natural wonders.

    For these reasons, our Board fully endorses the SOS Act and will 
continue to support this legislation.

            Sincerely,

                                               Jeff Flores,
                                                           Chairman

                                 ______
                                 

                   Tulare County Board of Supervisors

                          Visalia, California

                                                 April 26, 2023    

Hon. Kevin McCarthy
U.S. House of Representatives
2468 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

Re: The Save Our Sequoias Act--SUPPORT

    Dear Speaker McCarthy:

    On behalf of the Tulare County Board of Supervisors, I write in 
strong support of the Save our Sequoias Act (SOS Act) which would 
protect, enhance, and restore our Giant Sequoia groves here in Tulare 
County.

    Tulare County is home to the vast majority of the 37,000 acres of 
Giant Sequoias available in the world. These ancient trees have 
survived several millennia only to be threatened by poor forest 
management practices over the last few decades. These practices have 
created a massive build-up of fuels in and around our Giant Sequoia 
groves. Although Giant Sequoias are naturally fire-resilient, this 
accumulation of fuel has led to unnaturally intense, high-severity 
wildfires that have destroyed nearly one-fifth of all Giant Sequoias on 
earth, in the last two years alone. With this expedited timeline of 
destruction, the very existence of our world-renowned Giant Sequoias is 
at risk.

    Significant action to mitigate the danger of these wildfires 
through fuel reduction practices has been advancing at a snail's pace 
due to lack of resources, environmental resistance, regulation, and 
litigation. At its current pace, it would take the U.S. Forest Service 
approximately 52 years to treat just their 19 most at-risk Giant 
Sequoia groves. We need to take immediate action to secure the health 
and longevity of these groves. The SOS Act will provide land managers 
with the emergency tools and resources needed to save the remaining 
Giant Sequoias.

    This bill will improve interagency coordination between Federal, 
State, Tribal, and local land managers through shared stewardship 
agreements. The SOS Act also establishes a comprehensive reforestation 
strategy to restore groves that have been lost to wildfire, and funds a 
new grant program to facilitate increased hazardous fuel reduction 
practices. All this will take place under an expediated processes 
provided by a declared emergency to codify existing emergency 
procedures, fast-track environmental reviews, while also maintaining 
robust scientific analysis.

    The SOS will ensure that our Giant Sequoia groves are healthy and 
thriving for generations to come. For these reasons, I stand in strong 
support of the Save our Sequoias Act.

            Sincerely,

                                           Dennis Townsend,
                                                           Chairman

                                 ______
                                 

Submissions for the Record by Rep. Grijalva

                         The Wilderness Society

                                                   May 10, 2023    

Hon. Bruce Westerman, Chairman
Hon. Raul Grijalva, Ranking Member
House Committee on Natural Resources
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

    Dear Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, and Members of 
the Committee:

    On behalf of our more than one million members and supporters, The 
Wilderness Society (TWS) writes to express our views on H.R. 2989, the 
Save Our Sequoias Act, which is being heard before the Committee on May 
10, 2023. We respectfully request that this letter be included in the 
hearing record.
    TWS has many concerns with H.R. 2989, particularly with the 
proposed changes to the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), the 
Endangered Species Act (ESA), the National Historic Preservation Act 
(NHPA), the Wilderness Act of 1964, and administrative and judicial 
review.
    Section 6 of H.R. 2989 mandates that certain forest management 
activities be carried out as ``Protection Projects,'' which may then be 
implemented before conducting a NEPA analysis, an ESA consultation, or 
a NHPA consultation, thereby waiving the requirements of these three 
important statutes. Carrying out a project prior to initiating NEPA, 
ESA, or NHPA processes would make any subsequent implementation of 
those laws moot and would subvert the very purpose of ensuring 
environmental harm is minimized and mitigated before a project begins.
    Sections 6 and 7 further shortcut environmental reviews by 
exempting both Protection Projects and reforestation and rehabilitation 
activities from NEPA compliance by declaring that these projects are 
``hereby designated as being categorically excluded from the 
preparation of an environmental assessment or an environmental impact 
statement'' under NEPA (Sec. 6(a)(4)(A)).
    H.R. 2989 excuses Section 6 Protection Projects from complying with 
the ESA's requirement to avoid harm to critical habitat by declaring 
that all Protection Projects are consistent with improving the health 
and resilience of critical habitat for threatened and endangered 
species (Sec. 6(a)(4)(C)(i)). TWS is concerned that the bill's 
subsequent requirement to use the ESA informal consultation process 
(Sec. 6(a)(4)(C)(ii)) is therefore contradicted and rendered 
meaningless by the bill's allowance for Section 6 Protection Projects 
to be implemented prior to initiating ESA consultation. Similar to our 
concerns around the NEPA provisions, the only way to avoid harm to 
critical habitat is to conduct these consultations before project 
implementation. The ESA consultation process is a vital safeguard for 
more than 400 listed species that are found in the National Forest 
System. Proper planning and management of these public lands offer the 
best opportunity for recovery of many of these imperiled species whose 
unique requirements for survival exist on federal lands.
    The bill would also limit judicial review of Section 6 Protection 
Projects by restricting choice of court venue, specifying the duration 
of preliminary injunctions, and constraining the court's ability to 
enjoin projects. In addition, the bill would eliminate agency oversight 
of Protection Projects by exempting them from the Forest Service's 
normal administrative objection process (Sec. 6(a)(2)(B & C)).
    During the 58 years since it was enacted, the Wilderness Act of 
1964 has remained essentially intact. H.R. 2989 would break that 
precedent by amending the Wilderness Act specifically to allow giant 
sequoia reforestation activities in designated wilderness areas burned 
by wildfires (Sec. 7(c)). It is neither necessary nor appropriate to 
amend the Wilderness Act to conduct giant sequoia reforestation work in 
wilderness areas. While managed reforestation in designated wilderness 
is not typical, the Wilderness Act does not prohibit reforestation 
activities as long as they comply with the Act's requirements, 
including its limitations on building roads and using motorized 
equipment or mechanical transport. The open-ended amendment proposed in 
Section 7 of H.R. 2989 potentially could sweep aside any limits on such 
activities in designated wilderness areas.
    The theme tying the above-mentioned provisions together seems to be 
a desire to expedite forest management work in the sequoia groves to 
increase resilience to uncharacteristic wildfire. While TWS greatly 
appreciates the wildfire threats these groves and much of our national 
forests have faced in recent years, weakening bedrock environmental 
laws and undermining our country's legal system are not the answers.
    Decades of fire suppression combined with the effects of climate 
change have put many of our public lands at risk from uncharacteristic 
wildfire. The U.S. Forest Service and other land management agencies 
have needed the resources to scale-up work in a way that can 
meaningfully deal with this threat. Thankfully, they received these 
resources with the passage of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs 
Act and the Inflation Reduction Act, and although these bills passed 
relatively recently, we have already seen the positive effects. In the 
sequoia groves alone, the Giant Sequoia Lands Coalition stated that in 
2022, they were able to more than double their annual goal of acres 
treated.\1\ All of this progress was achieved due to increased 
resources, not by weakening bedrock environmental laws.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Heller, Marc. ``Giant sequoias better protected from fire, 
group says'' E&E News, December 15, 2022.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Furthermore, during budget hearings by both the Senate Energy and 
Natural Resources Committee and House Committee on Natural Resources, 
Subcommittee on Federal Lands (occurring on April 18 and April 26, 
respectively), U.S. Forest Service Chief Randy Moore stated that 85 
percent of all projects are completed using categorical exclusions 
(CEs), meaning the agency does not need to prepare an environmental 
impact statement or environmental assessment before implementing the 
project. This extraordinarily high percentage is further evidence that 
additional amendments to NEPA are unwarranted.
    Based on the information above, The Wilderness Society opposes the 
H.R. 2989, the Save Our Sequoias Act. Thank you for considering our 
views.

            Sincerely,

                                               Lydia Weiss,
                              Senior Director, Government Relations

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