[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                       OVERSIGHT OF THE OFFICE OF
                         REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT'S
                      UNACCOMPANIED ALIEN CHILDREN
                                PROGRAM

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                              BEFORE THE

                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY,
                    THE BORDER, AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                                 OF THE

                         COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
                           AND ACCOUNTABILITY

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             APRIL 18, 2023

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-20

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Accountability
  
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                       Available on: govinfo.gov
                         oversight.house.gov or
                             docs.house.gov
                             
                               __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
51-892 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
                            
               COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY

                    JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman

Jim Jordan, Ohio                     Jamie Raskin, Maryland, Ranking 
Mike Turner, Ohio                        Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of 
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina            Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Pete Sessions, Texas                 Ro Khanna, California
Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Jake LaTurner, Kansas                Katie Porter, California
Pat Fallon, Texas                    Cori Bush, Missouri
Byron Donalds, Florida               Shontel Brown, Ohio
Kelly Armstrong, North Dakota        Jimmy Gomez, California
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
William Timmons, South Carolina      Robert Garcia, California
Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Maxwell Frost, Florida
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Becca Balint, Vermont
Lisa McClain, Michigan               Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Greg Casar, Texas
Russell Fry, South Carolina          Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Dan Goldman, New York
Chuck Edwards, North Carolina        Jared Moskowitz, Florida
Nick Langworthy, New York
Eric Burlison, Missouri

                       Mark Marin, Staff Director
       Jessica Donlon, Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel
                        Sloan McDonagh, Counsel
             Kaity Wolfe, Senior Professional Staff Member
         Grayson Westmoreland, Senior Professional Staff Member
      Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5074

                  Julie Tagen, Minority Staff Director
                      Contact Number: 202-225-5051
                                 
                                 ------                                

   Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs

                  Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin, Chairman
Paul Gosar, Arizona
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina        Robert Garcia, California, Ranking 
Clay Higgins, Louisiana                  Minority Member
Pete Sessions, Texas                 Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Dan Goldman, New York
Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Jared Moskowitz, Florida
Jake LaTurner, Kansas                Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Pat Fallon, Texas                    Katie Porter, California
Kelly Armstrong, North Dakota        Cori Bush, Missouri
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania

                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on April 18, 2023...................................     1

                               Witnesses

Robin Dunn Marcos, Director, Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR)
Oral Statement...................................................     5

Written opening statements and the statement for the witness are 
  available on the U.S. House of Representatives Document 
  Repository at: docs.house.gov.

                           Index of Documents

  * Article, The New York Times, ``Migrant Children Work Brutal 
  Jobs''; submitted by Rep. Biggs.

  * Article, The New York Times, ``U.S. Was Warned of Child 
  Migrant Labor''; submitted by Rep. Biggs.

  * Letter from Biggs to HHS, October 24, 2022; submitted by Rep. 
  Biggs.

  * Letter from Biggs to HHS, September 10, 2021; submitted by 
  Rep. Biggs.

  * Letter to Biggs from HHS, February 24, 2022; submitted by 
  Rep. Biggs.

  * Letter to Biggs from ORR, January 10, 2023; submitted by Rep. 
  Biggs.

  * Combined Statement for the Record; submitted by Rep. Garcia.

  * December 2019 Study, NCYL; submitted by Rep. Garcia.

  * Statement for the Record, Kids In Need of Defense (KIND); 
  submitted by Rep. Garcia.

  * Statement for the Record, USCRI; submited by Rep. Garcia.

  * Statement for the Record, Young Center; submitted by Rep. 
  Garcia.

  * Sponsor Care Agreement, ORR; submitted by Rep. Gosar.

  * Sponsor Verification Application, ORR; submitted by Rep. 
  Gosar.

  * Memoranda of Agreement, HHS-DOL; submitted by Rep. Porter.

  * Questions for the Record: to Ms. Marcos; submitted by Rep. 
  Perry.

  * Questions for the Record: to Ms. Marcos; submitted by Rep. 
  Grothman.

Documents are available at: docs.house.gov.

 
                       OVERSIGHT OF THE OFFICE OF
                         REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT'S
                      UNACCOMPANIED ALIEN CHILDREN
                                PROGRAM

                              ----------                              


                        Tuesday, April 18, 2023

                        House of Representatives

               Committee on Oversight and Accountability

   Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs

                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:09 a.m., in 
room 2247, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Glenn Grothman 
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Grothman, Gosar, Higgins, 
Sessions, Biggs, LaTurner, Fallon, Perry, Garcia, Goldman, 
Porter, and Frost.
    Mr. Grothman. The Subcommittee on National Security, The 
Border, and Foreign Affairs will come to order.
    I apologize for being a couple minutes late. The 
Republicans were having a conference, and, along Mr. Biggs and 
Mr. Perry, we had to stay there a little late because Speaker 
McCarthy was giving a spellbinding speech, and we could not get 
away. Make sure you tell him I said that.
    Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any 
time.
    I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening 
statement.
    Good morning and welcome to the witness, Director Marcos. 
Thank you for your attendance and participation in today's 
hearing on ensuring the safety of unaccompanied alien children.
    President Biden's open borders agenda has created a 
humanitarian crisis that encourages the trafficking of migrant 
children in the United States. Since the first day he assumed 
office, President Biden has worked to roll back the deterrence 
that has focused on policies that worked under the Trump 
Administration to maintain operational control of the Southwest 
border and reducing the number of people who are coming here in 
the first place. As a Federal judge recently commented on the 
Biden Administration, ``It has effectively turned the Southwest 
border into a meaningless line in the sand and little more than 
a speed bump for aliens entering this country.'' The judge 
stated, ``The actions of the Biden Administration were like 
posting a flashing ``come in, we are open'' sign at the 
Southern border.
    In Fiscal Year 2021, the Department of Homeland Security 
made over 1.7 million encounters with inadmissible aliens on 
the Southwest border. In 2022, the number rose to 2.4 million. 
Cartels have exploited President Biden's disastrous border 
policies to create one of the largest human trafficking and 
smuggling operations in the world. Cartels charge illegal 
border crossers a fee for the right to cross through Mexico and 
across our Southern border. Border Patrol agents have told me 
that the cartels charge $5,000 to $10,000 to individuals from 
the Western Hemisphere and $18,000 or more for individuals from 
Asia, including Chinese nationals, for the right to cross our 
Southwest border. While most illegal border crossers are single 
adults, many are children, more than 250,000 in the past two 
years. And, the cartels charge them and their families money as 
well.
    Not surprising, with so many more people crossing the 
Southern border, a lot of unaccompanied minors are coming 
across as well. The Florida Department of Children and Families 
published results from interviews conducted with 49 
unaccompanied children about how they entered the United 
States. The interviewed children knew little about the 
individuals who brought them at the Southwest border. They just 
described them as coyotes. That is what we have. People the 
kids don't even know being brought by people they don't know. 
One child detained during her journey to the Southwest border 
said several members of her group were robbed, attacked by gang 
members, decapitated, or raped. The child disclosed that she 
herself was a victim of rape. Again, we have a humanitarian 
crisis along the border that this Administration created.
    The Department of Health and Human Services has a statutory 
obligation to care for unaccompanied alien children referred 
into its custody by the Department of Homeland Security. It 
must also ensure these children are placed in the care of 
appropriate sponsors in the U.S. who are capable of providing 
for their physical and mental well-being. Too often that is not 
happening. Instead, reports indicate that Secretary Becerra is 
pushed to instill a culture at ORR that prioritizes ``assembly 
line speed'' in releasing unaccompanied alien children to 
poorly vetted sponsors across the country to the detriment of 
our children's safety. And I will tell you, it is particularly 
aggravating to see all these kids come across the border and 
have the press not cover what is going on when these kids may 
never see their parents again. And just a few years ago, we had 
the press screaming about broken families.
    Director Marcos' predecessor was reportedly threatened with 
dismissal from what Secretary Becerra considered to be 
insufficient numerical discharges of unaccompanied children in 
ORR custody. She resigned shortly thereafter. Reports reveal 
that many of these poorly vetted sponsors exploit children once 
in their care.
    A Florida statewide grand jury identified several abuses of 
migrant children in sponsors' care. The grand jury found 
evidence of unaccompanied children fleeing sponsors who are 
selling them for sex. One was found to have offered sex to men 
by her aunt, who she never met before. One unaccompanied child 
reported that their sponsor had previously been sent for prison 
for felony battery of a child. They found out that 
unaccompanied children were dropping out of school to work and 
pay cartel debts.
    Remember, a lot of these kids had to pay their way or go 
into debt to the cartels to come in this country. You got to 
think, how are they paying off that debt. A recent New York 
Times report indicates that nearly two-thirds of all 
unaccompanied minors work illegal full-time jobs, likely to pay 
off their debts to cartels for smuggling them into the country, 
and to sponsors for providing basic necessities, such as food 
and housing.
    Today I want to find out a little bit more how the 
unprecedented levels of illegal border crossings, incentivized 
by President Biden's policies, have led to historic encounters 
of unaccompanied alien children that have overwhelmed ORR and 
endangered migrant children. We will also examine ORR's efforts 
moving forward to ensure adequate care and safe discharge of 
these children into the care of appropriately vetted sponsors. 
And we also want to find out what efforts are being made to 
reunite these children with their parents.
    In any event, I would like to recognize my good friend, 
Ranking Member Garcia, for the purpose of making an opening 
statement.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I also 
want to thank our witness. I know that this is a very difficult 
job. And I wanted to just start first by talking a little bit 
about the office and the role it plays and how important it is, 
and also address some of the concerns that I think many folks, 
of course, have.
    First, the Office of Refugee Resettlement has absolutely a 
critical mission in this country. When I was mayor of Long 
Beach, ORR actually opened an emergency shelter right around 
July 2021. We had almost 1,600 migrant children that ORR 
reunited with family or sponsors. I met dozens and dozens of 
these children at the center. It was a heartbreaking 
experience, but also I saw firsthand the incredible work that 
the partners on the ground, the immigration defense attorneys, 
the social workers, the doctors were doing to assist all of 
these young children, many of whom were scared, wanted to see 
family, and many also who are very grateful to be here in this 
country trying to escape a very difficult situation back home. 
And so, I just first want to thank all of the workers at ORR 
who I know do a very, very hard job in this country.
    But it is important to also note that we are concerned any 
time that children are placed in unsafe conditions, and we 
believe that to be, of course, not just heartbreaking but 
unacceptable. We want to be sure that we have an agency that 
supports legal asylum, of course, and folks who come as 
refugees are not victims of human trafficking. I think we can 
all agree on that. We also know that these refugees and these 
children are some of the most vulnerable people that we have, 
and these people need a helping hand to build their lives.
    Immigrants, refugees, folks seeking asylum, they make 
contributions to our community. They make our country stronger. 
I personally am an immigrant myself. I came as a small child. I 
know how difficult that process is, and I see these kids just 
want to have the same opportunities that were given to me and 
to others in this country as well. Now, one of the most 
critical things that we can do is make sure that the Office of 
Refugee Resettlement is strong, is well funded, and is doing 
the important work they have in this country.
    When an unaccompanied child arrives at the border, that 
child is, of course, quickly transferred out of the custody of 
Homeland Security and into the Office of Refugee Resettlement. 
The ORR is tasked with placing them in the least restrictive 
settings, best possible, the best interests of the child while 
the legal immigration process proceeds. And the process allows 
the Department of Homeland Security to do its job while 
protecting children.
    Now, when children are held in government custody apart 
from their primary caregivers for long periods, we know that 
they suffer injury. It is a long-lasting injury for these kids, 
and, so, we know that ORR policies try to connect these kids 
with their sponsors as soon as possible. We all can agree that 
kids do not belong in cages. I want to, of course, thank HHS 
and the White House for transitioning from what was a very 
difficult period of time for ORR and the way we actually served 
children that are coming into our care. But we also know we 
have got to get kids out of unsafe shelter conditions and into 
sponsor homes.
    I know that about 90 percent of kids that are in ORR 
custody end up in sponsors that are direct family, and others 
are, I believe, other types of sponsors that are vetted as best 
as possible through ORR. We do know that by recent reports, 
though, that some kids are being placed in vary exploitive 
conditions. We need to make sure that we have conditions that 
are safe for all of our children, and certainly we want to make 
sure that we have enough trained and qualified managers, social 
workers, that can really cope with the influx that we have of 
children that arrive at the border, and the plans and systems 
that are in place to deal with this demand have gone through a 
process of vetting for sponsors, and that all suspicious 
partners are flagged.
    HHS must ensure that immediate follow-up happens when 
children request assistance regarding labor exploitation or the 
safety and security of their placement. We also need to have a 
serious conversation about how we make sure that we are fully 
enforcing our labor laws and holding corporations accountable 
when they knowingly and illegally profit from child labor. So, 
I personally support legislation to crack down on these 
unethical employers.
    We also want to make sure that unaccompanied children have 
the full range of services they need, including mental 
healthcare, to keep them safe, and certainly and hopefully our 
colleagues are committed to securing those resources. We want 
to make sure that we are not attacking asylum, but that we are 
actually working to ensure that those who are seeking asylum 
are being treated in a way that is fair and with respect.
    We also want to make sure that we are focused on increasing 
funding. The needs that are real at ORR actually need 
additional funding support. Right now, there are bills being 
marked up that would actually stop additional funding, that 
would roll back and eliminate ORR's ability to even do any 
post-release follow up. Some of these bills that are moving 
through the House in the Committee process would actually hurt 
our efforts to make corrections and to improve ORR's capability 
of supporting children throughout the entire process. We also 
want to make sure that we are doing everything we can through 
this Committee to be serious about getting funding for the 
Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of 
Labor, a very important cause.
    So, I am grateful that we have this opportunity to work 
with you to make the necessary improvements at ORR as well. Mr. 
Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. I am pleased to introduce our 
witness today. Robin Dunn Marcos is the Director of the Office 
of Refugee Resettlement, or ORR as we will refer to them today, 
in the Administration for Children and Families at the U.S. 
Department of Health and Human Services, a position she has 
held since September 2022. I look forward to hearing from 
Director Marcos today on the very important issues regarding 
ORR's efforts to ensure adequate care and safe discharge of 
unaccompanied alien children into the care of sponsors. I don't 
know if I look forward to it, but we are going to hear about it 
anyway.
    OK. Pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), the witness will 
please stand and raise your right hand.
    Do you solemnly swear and affirm the testimony that you are 
about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. I do.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Let the record show the witness 
answered in the affirmative.
    OK. Now, I will open things up for myself to ask a few 
questions. Oh, I am sorry. First, we need your opening 
statement.

                     STATEMENT OF ROBIN DUNN MARCOS

                DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT

                ADMINISTRATION FOR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES

              U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Chairman Grothman, Ranking Member Garcia, 
and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity 
to appear today on behalf of the Department of Health and Human 
Services. Since assuming my position of Director of the Office 
of Refugee Resettlement in September 2022, I have led a 
dedicated team of professionals who are each committed to 
ensuring the safety and well-being of every child in our care. 
I've visited 18 programs and facilities across seven states 
where I have met children we serve, some of the dedicated 
people who serve them, and witness the commitment of our staff. 
Providing for the safety and well-being of children in ORR's 
care is not only our mandate. It is our guiding principle.
    Under the Homeland Security Act and Trafficking Victims 
Protection Reauthorization Act, ORR is required to provide for 
the care and custody of all unaccompanied children following a 
referral from the Department of Homeland Security or other 
Federal entity until they are released to a vetted sponsor. The 
Flores Settlement Agreement also establishes minimum service 
standards for ORR-funded programs. ORR funds nearly 300 
programs in 27 states. We provide child-appropriate services, 
including education, healthcare, counseling services, case 
management, recreation, access to legal services, access to 
religious services, and access to child advocates where 
appropriate.
    Given ORR's child welfare mission, we know the best place 
for a child is with a family in a community, not in a 
congregate care setting. More than 85 percent of unaccompanied 
children released to sponsors in Fiscal Year 2022 were placed 
with a close family member, including a parent or legal 
guardian, in more than one-third of total cases. Pursuant to 
the TVPRA, ORR conducts due diligence to identify sponsors' 
ability to provide for a child's physical and mental well-
being. Prior to placing a child in their care, ORR seeks to 
work in the best interest of the child to safely expedite the 
release of unaccompanied children to a parent, a family member, 
or other appropriate sponsor, and has thorough screening 
processes in place for all sponsors. This includes verifying 
the relationship to the child, speaking with the child's 
parents, conducting separate interviews with the child and 
sponsor, collecting and verifying sponsor information and 
documentation, administering background checks, address 
verification, public records, and sex offender registry checks, 
as well as FBI checks in certain cases. ORR also conducts home 
studies as required by the TVPRA, or ORR policy, or at ORR's 
discretion if it may provide additional information about the 
sponsor's ability to care for the child.
    While ORR's custodial responsibilities end when a child is 
discharged, our concern for the child does not. ORR has 
policies in place to promote children's welfare as they 
transition into a new community, such as the safety and well-
being calls. Although children and sponsors are not required to 
participate in these calls, and may not answer for a variety of 
reasons, in Fiscal Year 2022, ORR care providers made contact 
with either the child, the sponsor, or both in more than 81 
percent of households. In addition, the 24/7 ORR National Call 
Center connects children and sponsors with resources within 
their community and is required to report any safety concerns, 
including suspected human trafficking, exploitation, or abuse. 
These reports are to ORR, other Federal entities, law 
enforcement agency, and/or Child Protective Services, as 
required.
    ORR is continually assessing and implementing improvements 
to the UAC Program. I am pleased that the DOL and ACF 
Memorandum of Agreement, formalized in March, will further 
expand our work together. Additionally, ORR has launched an 
audit that includes two concurrent efforts: a review of 
unaccompanied children released in 2021 and 2022 to an 
unrelated sponsor who sponsored more than two unrelated 
children, and an ongoing review of current vetting requirements 
for potential sponsors who have previously sponsored 
unaccompanied children. ORR intends to provide information on 
the findings from this audit. Furthermore, ORR more than 
doubled the rate of children provided post-release services in 
Fiscal Year 2022 compared to Fiscal Year 2021, and we are on 
track, with continued support from Congress, to reach our goal 
of 100 percent of children receiving post-release services by 
the end of Fiscal Year 2024.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. 
Children who come through ORR care face unique challenges. ORR 
is committed to caring for these children and doing everything 
within the bounds of our authorities and resources to safeguard 
their well-being following ORR discharge. I am happy to address 
any questions you may have about our critical work.
    Mr. Grothman. Well, thanks much for the opening statement. 
The numbers I have here, and I want to make sure they are 
right. The year ending 2020, in 2020, there were about 15,000 
unaccompanied minors, which came across. I realize part of that 
was because of COVID, but half of that was even before COVID 
really began and changed policy. They quickly jumped up to 
122,000 then 128,000 under the Biden Administration. Do you 
agree the number of unaccompanied minors crossing the Southern 
border has jumped from about 15,000 to 128,000?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Chairman. I can confirm that 
during the paramedic and early into 2021, ORR received 
unprecedented children referred to our care.
    Mr. Grothman. So, you are saying it went up during the 
COVID. I mean, it was 15,000, the entire last year of Trump, 
OK? I am sorry. Yes, during the last full year of Trump, of 
which six months was COVID, and within a year, that it jumped 
up to 122,000. I mean, whatever we are talking about today, 
when you go from 15,000 unaccompanied minors to 128,000, that 
ought to be a real cause for concern, shouldn't it?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Chairman. As you laid out, ORR 
experienced a significant increase in the numbers of children 
that were referred to us. And our mission is to provide for the 
safety and well-being----
    Mr. Grothman. Right.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. [continuing] And well-being of every 
child----
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Right.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. [continuing] That is referred to us.
    Mr. Grothman. Huge problem. Now, I know the Border Patrol, 
and they have some of these kids, they are suspicious. They do 
DNA testing. Percentage-wise, how many of these kids, if you 
claim you have a relative or blah, blah, blah, how many kids 
are you doing DNA testing to see if it is really a relative, or 
grandparent, or whatever?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Chairman, we have extensive vetting 
processes----
    Mr. Grothman. Do you do DNA testing?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. We do----
    Mr. Grothman. On how many do you do?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. We may do DNA testing if we feel that that 
is required.
    Mr. Grothman. Of about 128,000 kids you are processing 
every year, how many are you doing DNA testing on?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Chairman, I will have to look into that 
and come back to you. I don't have that number off the top of 
my head.
    Mr. Grothman. Oh, OK.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. But what I can tell you is that our 
vetting processes are extremely thorough, and we have a number 
of options that we can do, additional steps as required.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. I am just saying, I do not think it is 
thorough if you are not doing DNA testing, but OK. We will wait 
for that answer.
    Mr. Grothman. Next question I have. We live in an era in 
which I am told, everybody crossing the Southern border seems 
to have a cellphone. When you find somebody, percentage-wise, 
how many of the children do you talk to one parent, and 
percentage-wise, how many children do you talk to both parents?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Eighty-five percent of our children are 
joining----
    Mr. Grothman. Just a minute. We got to take a break for a 
second. I guess there is a problem with the microphone. We got 
to wait a couple minutes for the smart people. Well, hopefully 
they will figure this out in a couple minutes, but we are told 
by the people up above we got to wait.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Grothman. We will stand in recess for, why don't we 
say, five minutes?
    Mr. Garcia. OK.
    Mr. Grothman. Yes, we have somebody coming up, a technical 
person, to fix it. OK. Very good.
    [Recess.]
    Mr. Grothman. We will start in about one minute so people 
can get out of the hall or wherever they are.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Very good. In the past Administration, we 
heard a lot about being separated from their parents, and I do 
know that cellphones are common all over the place. I know most 
people who cross the border, the Border Patrol tells me, even 
from obscure places, they all manage to have cellphones. How 
many, percentage-wise, of these unaccompanied kids coming 
across do we wind up talking to one parent, and what percentage 
do we wind up talking to both parents?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Chairman. We reunite 85 percent 
of the kids with close or immediate family members.
    Mr. Grothman. Well, that is not the question because some 
of these close or immediate could be a uncle they have never 
seen before. What percentage do we talk to one parent, and what 
percent do we talk to two parents, so the parents know their 
little children are safe, and so the little children can get 
advice or counsel from their parents?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Chairman, we do everything we can to speak 
to child, sponsor, and parent, if the parent is not the 
sponsor. If both parents are available----
    Mr. Grothman. Well, percentage-wise, say, if we have got a 
group of 1,000 unaccompanied minors, what percent do you talk 
to one parent, what percent do you talk to two parents, and 
what percent do you talk to no parents?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. I will have to get back to you on that.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Now, we know there are fraudulent 
identification. Do you ever find fraudulent identification?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Chairman. Our vetting processes 
are done in a way that if there are fraudulent documents, they 
would be identified in that process. We have a number of steps 
in place. We verify things with consulates.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Yep. One final thing. It was reported in 
The New York Times, according to reports, you have lost or no 
longer know where 85,000 unaccompanied minors are. Was The New 
York Times article right in that, and how frequently do we 
check in with these kids who enter here without their parents?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you for that question, Chairman. I 
would like to set the record straight. We did not lose anyone. 
We provide safety and well-being calls between 30 and 37 days 
after release. ORR's custodial authority ends when they are 
discharged to a vetted sponsor. However, our concern does not, 
and we have a number of things in place where we try to 
maintain contact, and they have--the children, and the 
families----
    Mr. Grothman. OK. If we say we got a sea of 1,000 people, 
six months after they were released, how many of those 1,000 
people do we know where they are? Are they still with the 
sponsors or are the sponsors who knows where? Of those 1,000, 
how many do we know where they are six months after release?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Chairman. ORR does not monitor 
or track the whereabouts of children after they are released 
from our care. However, we are very committed to continuing to 
provide support. Post-release services is our best option to 
provide continual care for them.
    Mr. Grothman. So, could the 85,000 number be right that The 
New York Times has? We don't know where 85,000 unaccompanied 
minors wound up?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. We do not track or monitor----
    Mr. Grothman. The answer is no. There are 85,000 kids who 
came across the border. We don't know. Is that right? 
Apparently, it is.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. ORR works within the statutes and 
authorities and resources provided----
    Mr. Grothman. OK. OK. We will take that to mean we don't 
know where they are. OK. Now my Co-Chair, Congressman Garcia.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to just 
also start by asking unanimous consent just to introduce some 
submitted statements from some organizations into the record: 
the Young Center for Immigrant Children's Rights, Kids in Need 
of Defense, the U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants, and 
a letter from multiple organizations, including Church World 
Services. So, without objection, I want to just start by 
getting that all into the record.
    Mr. Garcia. And I do want to just allow you to clarify a 
little bit further just for the Committee, this number that is 
being brought up as far as the unaccompanied children. It is 
also true, and I think it is a really important point, that 
sponsors are not currently, in statute, required to actually 
connect themselves with ORR once the child is released. I mean, 
there is no legal requirement for the sponsor to continue 
working with ORR. Isn't that correct also?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. That is absolutely 
correct. The sponsor is not required to report in to us.
    Mr. Garcia. And so, I think it is really important just to 
note that there is no official tracking system post-release to 
the sponsor, 85 percent of which are family, as you mentioned, 
and that is something that is within statute and within the 
framework of your work. I just think it is important to note 
that many of these families have other undocumented folks, 
could be migrants themselves, and oftentimes there is not a 
positive relationship with the Federal Government because of 
some of the dehumanization that happens to these families. And 
so, I just want to make sure that we note that as well, so 
thank you for that.
    I do want to get back to, really quick, Ms. Dunn Marcos, 
obviously we want to make sure that every single kid is being 
placed in a safe situation. I mean, that is clear to me. 
Everyone is interested in that. Are there new measures being 
put in place, or how are you addressing kind of some of the 
reports that have been brought up here, particularly in the 
last few weeks and months?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. ORR is dedicated 
to continue process improvements. Every sponsor goes through a 
thorough vetting where we are reviewing the documents they 
submit. We are talking to the child and the sponsor. We are 
running a public records check, criminal check, sex offender 
registry check, so there are a number of steps. If there is any 
concern, we can do a home study. And then we also have kind of 
a quality control process in place where the case manager is 
making a recommendation about this particular release. We have 
a third party who is weighing in with the totality of the 
information that has been provided on whether they believe that 
the release would be safe and appropriate. And then an ORR 
professional staff member approves, denies, or sends it back 
for additional information.
    And then I would also like to say that we really make sure 
that both children and sponsors know about the ORR National 
Call Center. This is a 24/7 hotline that can provide a number 
of different resources. I have recently started doing regular 
meetings with the NCC. We are looking at the information that 
is coming in. We are tracking any trends, so we can respond 
appropriately.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you. Let me also just ask because, I 
mean, certainly think any time anyone reads anything about 
child labor or any child, migrant or not, that is being 
subjected to that level of work, has no place in our country. I 
think we can all agree on that. What are we doing through the 
Department of Labor or the relationship there to ensure that 
that is not happening to any of these children?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. We completely 
agree that child labor exploitation has no place in our 
society. ORR is working closely with the Department of Labor. 
We have just signed an agreement where we will provide much 
more coordinated information sharing. We have a number of steps 
in place, that when a particular area or location may be 
flagged, that we can do everything up to temporarily stopping 
placements until we are satisfied that the child is going into 
a safe and appropriate setting.
    Mr. Garcia. And I want to ask you because I think obviously 
part of the mission of ORR is to ensure that a child is placed 
quickly with sponsors. We want to have children the least 
amount of time in any sort of facility or any sort of holding 
center. So, how do you ensure that case workers are also not 
being pushed to act too quickly? What is that balance that you 
try to find with caseworkers?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. A very important 
question because it is our job to release children to a vetted 
sponsor without undue delay. We have gone to a seven-day work 
week. When I have gone out to visit programs, that is one of 
the questions I have asked, is have they ever felt pressured to 
release to an unsafe situation. I have been told no, ORR staff 
listens, they consult with us, and we are keeping the best 
interest of the child in every single decision.
    Mr. Garcia. And I think it is also true and something that 
I think that needs to be addressed, and this could be addressed 
by this Congress. If a child is actually placed in an unsafe 
situation, does ORR have the legal power to remove them from 
the sponsor's home?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you for that question. ORR does not 
have the authority. Our custodial authority ends when the child 
is released to a vetted sponsor.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you. So, I just want to be very clear and 
make that clear again. I think it is a very important part. I 
think that is something that is concerning to me personally. It 
should be concerning to Members on both sides of the aisle that 
once a child is placed in a sponsor's home, ORR does not have 
the legal power to remove that child from a sponsor. And so, I 
think it is really important that we are very clear about what 
actually you are all able to do within the scope of a statute.
    And so, I just, again, want to thank you. This is very 
difficult work, and I just want to reiterate, again, that we 
are also very concerned about the safety of every child. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Biggs. Mr. Chairman, I have a parliamentary inquiry.
    Mr. Grothman. Yes?
    Mr. Biggs. Are we all going to get extra time or are we on 
the five-minute rule or not?
    Mr. Grothman. Well, we have an easygoing Chairman. I went 
over, which is why I allowed my----
    Mr. Biggs. OK. I may want to go over, too, then. Thanks.
    Mr. Grothman. Congressman Gosar.
    Mr. Gosar. Thank you, Chairman, and thank the Ranking 
Member for going down that line. You know, I think it shows a 
very disjointed type of process because if you don't know the 
results, how do you affect it at the very beginning? So, that 
is where I am going to start.
    So, on January 5 of 2021, the Trump Administration's Office 
of Refugee Resettlement upgraded two important pieces of 
paperwork involved in the UAC-sponsor application process in an 
effort to make sure that the people who are applying to be 
sponsors were actually fit to care for those children. One of 
these forms, the Sponsor Verification Agreement, was improved 
to ask a whole slew of very basic questions about fitness of 
care for children, including questions about the intending 
sponsor's background, his or her income, his or her health 
insurance, whether there were sex offenders in the sponsor's 
home, and so on. Again, these were very basic questions.
    I would enter this into the record. Enter this into record.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. So ordered.
    Mr. Gosar. And the other form, the Sponsor Care Agreement, 
was the form the intending sponsor needed to sign to complete 
the sponsorship process. It mostly details the obligations that 
the sponsor would have while serving as sponsor and reminds him 
of all criminal penalties for providing false information in 
the sponsorship application process.
    I want to enter this into the record.
    Mr. Grothman. So ordered.
    Mr. Gosar. Now, the Biden Administration canceled both of 
these key form upgrades, which meant the ORR reverted to the 
previous inadequate form that put UACs who are smuggled and 
trafficked in the United States at risk. Director Marco, I 
would like for you to make a commitment to resubmit the forms 
that I just entered into the record that were produced during 
the previous administration. These versions of the forms 
actually elicit the right information to make sure that a human 
being who applies to be a sponsor is actually fit to have a 
child in their home. Can you make that commitment to me right 
here and right now?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. What I can commit 
to is a review of those forms, and I do want to assure you that 
we continuously review our policies and procedures and make 
sure----
    Mr. Gosar. Well, I mean, I got to stop you there. We are 
limited in our time here. And, you know, it seems that you 
don't have the new form, so you reverted back to the previous 
form which showed it was very inadequate. So, can you recommit 
to me right now that you would look at these forms and start 
implementing, because they have the right information that we 
need on sponsors?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, I respectfully do not believe 
that our current vetting is inadequate. We have----
    Mr. Gosar. Well, that is a subject for you to think about 
because we have lots of problems in regards to that, because it 
showed over and over again that those forms were not adequate. 
Now, frankly, it is unacceptable that you cannot make that 
commitment. Those forms that you see now are a joke. They were 
written in a way that almost seems as if you are trying not to 
learn about or track the lackness of fitness of these sponsors. 
Now, in theory, if ORR is doing the job and actually vetting 
sponsors, it will have a statistically significant rejection 
rate. What is ORR's sponsor application rejection rate?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, I am not sure what our 
rejection rate is, but I----
    Mr. Gosar. You know, I have got to stop you there again. 
You knew you were coming into this hearing. You knew these 
numbers were going to be asked. This is inappropriate behavior 
of somebody of your caliber. Inappropriate. These are numbers. 
We are all elected here to look and govern, and if you cannot 
have these numbers, you cannot make good policy. Good process 
builds good policy builds good politics. I find it a shame that 
you don't have these numbers in front of you and shame for the 
people behind you for not having these numbers.
    We all look at children a little differently than we do 
adults. Children are dependent upon adults and parents to do 
the right thing. I find it very unacceptable, your performance 
so far this morning. I hope that you will--not hope--I will 
demand that you have those numbers. Just what the Chairman 
said, that the Ranking Member asked for, what I am asking for, 
and any Member here asks for, immediately have those numbers, 
and I hope you never repeat this performance again. I yield 
back.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Mr. Frost?
    Mr. Frost. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think we can all agree 
that child trafficking of any kind is completely unacceptable, 
and the reports about the child trafficking victim in Florida 
City, Florida, the state I am from, is truly heartbreaking. And 
I am appalled by yesterday's report in The New York Times that 
shows the Administration's lack of action when it knew about 
these violations as far as child labor laws are concerned.
    One child is too many, and as someone who comes from an 
immigrant family, as someone who believes that our policy 
should be informed by love and compassion, this is something 
that I hope the Administration will work on to ensure it is not 
a problem in the future, to ensure that no child that has 
sought refuge in America is being mistreated, and that we have 
a fully well-funded immigration system that is rooted in that 
love and compassion. These values are what drive my immigration 
policy, and, unfortunately, I see that missing from a lot of 
the Republican politicians on this Committee, in this body, and 
in my home state of Florida.
    And I just have to bring up the fact that, right now, in my 
state, Governor DeSantis and his buddies in the State House are 
moving forward a bill, H.B. 1617, that would make it a third-
degree felony, punishable by five years in prison, to knowingly 
transport someone who is undocumented, and I have to just call 
out the hypocrisy right now. And again, I think that the 
Administration's failure on protecting these children is 
appalling and it needs to be fixed. But at the same time, we 
see this hypocrisy and this sudden caring about undocumented 
children and caring about unaccompanied minors.
    And my question for you is this. A bill like this that is 
being supported by the Republican Party in Florida that makes 
it a third-degree felony to transport an undocumented person, 
how would that impact your work and being able to place an 
unaccompanied child in a safe environment?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. Our legal 
authorities, as provided by Congress, require us to provide for 
the safety and well-being of children in our care, and to 
release them without undue delay to a vetted sponsor. The bill 
that you are speaking of, which I can't get into House bills, 
that is out of my authority as the ORR director, but what I can 
say is that these measures make our job more difficult. And 
when you speak of the compassion of caring for children, I can 
assure you, hundreds of staff across this country, this is 
their mission. They personally believe in what we are doing, 
and they are doing everything within the authorities and 
resources provided to provide good care for these children and 
to release them to appropriately vetted sponsors.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you, and I think it just shows that we 
have this problem we are seeing right now that is showcased 
here on the Committee where we have a party that wants to take 
this problem, that is a problem that needs to be fixed, using 
it for political points rather than actually wanting to fix the 
problem. And that is why I point out this bill in my home state 
of Florida that will continue to make conditions unsafe for 
unaccompanied children in the state of Florida.
    And we see legislation like this across the country. I 
mean, tomorrow the House Judiciary Committee is marking up a 
137-page Republican immigration bill that will continue to 
cause harm to our immigration system. One section of this bill 
is going to codify the Trump Administration mandate that ORR 
share information about sponsors' home with ICE so they can 
target those sponsors with arrest and threats of deportation. 
How would this bill and the codification of the Trump 
Administration policy affect your ability to place children 
with their parents or legal guardians?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. I think steps like 
that create a chilling impact on sponsors coming forward. And 
we know child welfare best practice is a child is best placed 
with their family in a community, not a congregate care 
setting.
    Mr. Frost. And how might arresting and threatening folks 
who come forward to sponsor a child affect the availability of 
good sponsors?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Once again, Congressman, our job is to 
release children as safely and quickly as possible. We want 
them released to their parent, to their legal guardian, to 
their aunts, to their uncles, or other sponsors as appropriate.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you. You know, politicians might talk 
about their desire to help protect children, but every time 
that they have had the opportunity, especially my Republican 
colleagues in Congress, to pursue policies that would help the 
most vulnerable, we see them use it to score political points 
as well. Again, the Administration's failure to protect these 
specific children--I read The New York Times probe and 
article--is alarming. But at the same time, I do not for one 
second buy the lie that Republicans on this Committee and 
Congress give a damn about actually fixing the problem. Thank 
you. I yield back.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. My good friend from Arizona, Andy Biggs.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is pretty weak sauce 
when you come in and ask a Federal official to comment on a 
state law that has not even been passed yet. I thought that is 
interesting and this faux compassion by my colleague across the 
aisle. That is really what it is. It is faux compassion.
    Director Marcos, thanks for being with us today. I also 
want to thank you for your January 10 response to my letter on 
this very topic. In the response, you indicate that the Office 
of Refugee Resettlement lost contact with 42,577 sponsors of 
unaccompanied children since January 2021. And in The New York 
Times piece that came out, published in February, reports that 
the DHS lost contact with more than 85,000 children. And I 
recognize that is post-placement by your office, but you do 
make the calls because you have made, I think, it is like a 
quarter of a million phone calls, somewhere in that 
neighborhood, to follow up.
    And you said in your letter to me, ``We can't make people 
answer the phones.'' I get that, but it is a woeful, woeful 
process that once we have placed these children--and on one 
hand, contrary to your testimony, I think there are a lot of 
holes in the vetting process that you have indicated to us 
today--and then we lose track of them. I also want to point out 
something with regard to UACs. The majority are boys. Two-
thirds of all UACs are boys. Seventy-two are between the age of 
15 and 18. Is that accurate information?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. I am sorry. What was the last percentage?
    Mr. Biggs. Seventy-two percent of all UACs are between the 
age of 15 and 18.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. That sounds about right.
    Mr. Biggs. Yes, but when we talk about this, when we think 
about it, we typically focus on babies, toddlers, preteens, and 
that is about 15 percent. But the reality is the vast majority 
are in that critical age of 15 to 18.
    So, Mr. Chairman, I am going to ask unanimous consent to 
enter the following of the record: February 25 New York Times 
piece; April 17, 2023 New York Times piece; my October 24, 2022 
letter to ORR Director Marcos; January 10 response; my 
September 10, 2021 letter to HHS; and ORS February 24, 2022 
response.
    Mr. Grothman. Without objection, so ordered.
    Mr. Biggs. Yes. So, I think you are telling us that you do 
not disagree with 85,000 number of children that we have lost 
contact with. I am not saying you lost them. I said we lost 
contact with them. We do not know where those kids are. Is that 
fair to say?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. We attempt to make a safety and well-
being----
    Mr. Biggs. I understand that. Let us get to the point here. 
Let us just answer the direct question. When you made the call, 
you didn't get a response. Your letter tells me that you 
usually make three calls. You got no response in any of those 
three calls in 85,000 kids. Is that right?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. In 81 percent of the calls, we are----
    Mr. Biggs. You did not have contact with more than 85,000 
kids. Is that fair to say? I mean, just ``yes'' or ``no.'' We 
are not saying what is your percentage. Eighty-five thousand 
children that were placed by you, you made the calls to check 
on them, and you made three calls on average. Eighty-five 
thousand of them, you have no idea where they are. You do not 
want to answer the question. That is fine. We are going to go 
on to a different topic then.
    And so, let us talk about a person by the name of Linda 
Brandmiller, whistleblower. She pointed out that there was 
individuals, children, that she didn't think were placed 
appropriately, inadequate vetting, and so she raised it. She 
said, ``One sponsor said he was going to employ these three 
boys at a construction company. Another said he lived in 
Florida. One sponsored two children who would have to work off 
the cost of bringing bring them North.'' She contacted 
supervisors. She says it is urgent. Within days, the children 
are released to those sponsors, and not too very long after 
that, she is fired. Are you familiar with that case?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, I read it in The New York 
Times yesterday.
    Mr. Biggs. Other than that, you are not personally familiar 
with it.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. No. I joined ORR in September 2022.
    Mr. Biggs. OK. In the additional article, they mentioned 
five additional whistleblowers who were also terminated for 
raising red flags with regard to placement of children. Are you 
familiar with any of those cases? Have you looked into any of 
those cases? That article was a couple months old.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, I believe that many of----
    Mr. Biggs. Are you familiar with those cases? Let me just 
rephrase it. Did you look into the whistleblowers that were 
listed in The New York Times? Did you look into any other cases 
as they were terminated after raising issues?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, that article just came out. 
We have a team looking into it. Whistleblower----
    Mr. Biggs. Brandmiller was the recent case. The first New 
York Times article, which is more than a month old now, that is 
the one I mentioned.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. There are protections for whistleblowers, 
so I wouldn't necessarily know about specific cases. It may be 
that----
    Mr. Biggs. Did you bother to even look into what I am 
suggesting? Did you bother to even look into these? It sounds 
like you didn't, so let me ask you this question. Matt Haygood, 
a senior director of children's services at the U.S. Committee 
for Refugees and Immigrants, one of the largest organizations, 
sent an email with the subject line ``Trafficking Concerns.'' 
And he talked about trafficking, but he said there was no 
follow-up there. Are you working to make corrections when you 
get tipped off that there are people that are trafficking in 
these children?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Absolutely. When a concern is raised to 
our office, we are following up on it. I cannot speak to what 
happened before I came, and I cannot speak to during the border 
backup. What I can tell you is today's ORR, we are hearing. We 
are listening. We are making sure sponsors and children have 
more information, they know how to get help.
    Mr. Biggs. Last question I will ask you. UAC is under 
TVPRA. If they are from Mexico and Canada, they are returned 
home immediately. Do you think that is a policy that should be 
enforced from all countries to return them to their families?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, ORR is not a law enforcement 
agency or an immigration enforcement agency, and that is 
outside of my jurisdiction as ORR Director. My mandate----
    Mr. Biggs. So, you don't want to opine on that. Is that 
what you are saying?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. My mandate is to care for the----
    Mr. Biggs. And you don't want to opine on that. Is that 
right?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. My mission as ORR director is to care----
    Mr. Biggs. So, I guess the answer is you do not want to 
opine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Grothman. You are going to have to answer it after this 
hearing. Congressman Perry.
    Mr. Perry. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Director, just to set the 
framework, as I understand it, ORR has a statutory obligation 
to care for the unaccompanied child. That is what I am reading 
here in your mission or your mandate, right?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. That is correct.
    Mr. Perry. Statutory. There is a law, the obligation to 
care for these individuals. If that is the case, why is it on 
March 22, ORR removed the proof of address requirement and 
exempted other household members from submitting to a 
background check or providing identification? How does that aid 
in the obligation to care, remove proof of address requirement?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. I think what you are referring to was in 
the spring of 2021.
    Mr. Perry. Yes, the March 22, 2021. I gave you the date. 
What----
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. OK. When there were----
    Mr. Perry. How does it----
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. [continuing] Children backed up, over 
4,000 in DHS----
    Mr. Perry. So, since they are backed up, we just remove the 
requirement, lower the standard. I mean, that is essentially 
what we are saying, right?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. There are a number of layers of checks----
    Mr. Perry. I get it, but how does that enhance----
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. [continuing] And steps----
    Mr. Perry. OK. Maybe I should ask the question this way. 
Does that removal of the proof of address requirement for the 
household members that are submitted for, you know, these 
children that we are trying to find a place for, does that 
enhance your obligation to care or does it not enhance it?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, we check the addresses of all 
sponsors.
    Mr. Perry. It says proof of address requirement and 
exempted, remove the proof of address. So, you can check, but 
you don't have any proof, right? You can ask. I get it. You 
ask, right? Hey, what is your address, Mr. or Mrs. Sponsor, and 
they give you the address, and you write it down, and that is 
the end of it now. There is no requirement of proof of address.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. I don't think that that is a fair 
characteristic of the thorough----
    Mr. Perry. Well----
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. [continuing] Vetting process that our 
staff go through, and if there is any----
    Mr. Perry. Well, let me ask you this then. On March 31 of 
2021, so just a couple days later, ORR eliminated the 
background check requirement for immediate relatives other than 
a parent or legal guardian. Why would that be? How does that 
enhance the obligation to care?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. ORR's belief is that a child is best with 
their parents and guardians.
    Mr. Perry. OK. Awesome. I believe that, too. Let me ask you 
this. How do you know that they are with their parent? How do 
you know? Are you familiar that the Department of Homeland 
Security, under 8 U.S.C. 1365(b), shall create a biometric 
entry and exit data system, right, even though they have not 
and they have not implemented anything like that. Other than 
asking and other than public source information, how can you be 
sure it is their parent?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, we go through a number of 
vetting procedures.
    Mr. Perry. I am sure you do.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. We ask the child and the parent or the 
sponsor questions on the same day. We verify things with 
consulates.
    Mr. Perry. OK. So, what is the percentage of children that 
are reunited with their parent provable? What is your 
percentage, and how do you prove that?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. We go through a number of steps of that--
--
    Mr. Perry. No, what is the percentage, ma'am? I know you go 
through a number of things. You are stalling. Just answer. Just 
tell me, do you have a clue?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. So, in this fiscal year, I believe 37 
percent of children----
    Mr. Perry. Thirty-seven percent end up with their parent.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. With their parent.
    Mr. Perry. Let me ask you this. Do you ever refer charges 
for abandonment? Do you understand that abandonment in many 
states is a felony offense, and these children are coming to 
the border without their parent, which qualifies them as 
unaccompanied, right? That is the characterization. Are charges 
ever referred for abandonment?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, ORR is not a law enforcement 
agency.
    Mr. Perry. I did not say you were a law enforcement. I did 
not ask you to enforce the law. Do you ever refer? Like, if you 
found somebody doing a criminal act in your vetting process to 
one of these children--you are not a law enforcement agency. 
Would you refer charges in that case?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. We would refer and report to the 
appropriate authority.
    Mr. Perry. OK. So, how many have you referred or reported 
for abandonment?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Our job----
    Mr. Perry. Is that zero because they are all coming to the 
border unaccompanied, and if they are unaccompanied, that means 
they don't have their parent, right?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman----
    Mr. Perry. I mean, by definition.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Our job, by Congress, is to provide for 
the kids----
    Mr. Perry. God bless you. We want you to do the job. The 
question is these kids----
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. [continuing] The children who are in our 
care.
    Mr. Perry. Look, I am not reading from stuff that I made 
up. ORR sent over 100 unaccompanied children to a single-family 
house in Texas. I mean, if this vetting process is working, how 
does that happen? Whistleblowers from ORR knowingly transferred 
UACs to criminal and sex traffickers. If this process is 
working, how is that happening? A Florida grand jury pointed 
out an incident where a 24-year-old male was erroneously vetted 
as a child by ORR and then proceeded to violently murder his 
sponsor. I am sure you saw it in the news.
    If this process is working, how are these things occurring? 
And let's face it, these children are coming and they are 
unaccompanied because someone has abandoned them. Why don't we 
refer charges for abandonment? I am not asking you to do the 
law enforcement work, but, my goodness, if your job, your 
obligation, statutory obligation is to care for those minors, 
my goodness. If you saw somebody beating up some little kid on 
the street, wouldn't you call the police?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Of course, I would.
    Mr. Perry. Thank you, ma'am. I yield the balance.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Mr. Goldman?
    Mr. Goldman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Dunn Marcos, 
thank you for coming here today. You have just received a 
number of questions about your ability to vet unaccompanied 
minors, to respond to the overwhelming demand on your office, 
to address what is a significant problem. I am just going to 
ask you first, what are the very specific requests you would 
have for your office to do its job to its fullest capability? 
What can Congress do for you?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. I think one of the 
issues that we are here about today is what happens to the 
children after they leave our care. I think the children are 
safe and well cared for while they are with ORR, and we do 
everything possible to release them to a well-vetted sponsor, 
and, again, 85 percent, close or immediate family members.
    I think one of the things that we would appreciate 
Congress' support in is expanding our post-release services. 
Post-release services are an opportunity for professional staff 
to continue to support the child, the sponsor, the whole 
household, making sure that the child is connected with 
services, making sure that the child is attending school, 
making sure that the child does not fall into exploitive 
situations that we have seen reported. So, I think continued 
support in expanding post-release services and legal services 
are critical to providing care for these children after they 
leave our custodial authority.
    Mr. Goldman. It is interesting to me that that is the No. 1 
request you have. On March 24, my Democratic colleagues and I 
submitted an appropriations request specifically to build 
additional capacity and strengthen ORR's post-release services 
for all unaccompanied children. And I hope my colleagues on the 
other side of the aisle will support that request because I 
think we all are concerned, or at least should be concerned, 
about unaccompanied minors coming into the country and 
providing the services that they need.
    One of the things you mentioned is legal services, and as a 
former, I guess, current, present lawyer as well, I am very 
concerned about representation of these unaccompanied minors, 
and even more so a process that addresses the peculiar needs, 
especially the emotional needs where you often have very, very 
young children who do not speak English, who go before judges 
for adjudication of some sort. Can you offer some thoughts on 
how that process could be improved?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. ORR has been 
working with grantees and partners to do everything possible to 
make sure that children have representation, pro bono if not 
available. It is critical to making sure that the children have 
their rights protected, that they make sure that they 
understand the immigration process, they show up for their 
hearings. Again, the post-release--so, the post-release 
services, which not only do we want to expand to 100 percent by 
the end of 2024, but also legal services. Those are the most 
critical services that we can provide these children to keep 
them out of harm's way after release from our care.
    Mr. Goldman. The other thought is, and a colleague of mine, 
Congresswoman Scholten, and I have made a recommendation along 
these lines. And I am curious what your thought is, is to have 
a, essentially, a separate part of the court that is solely 
designed to address the needs of unaccompanied minors so that 
we have judges with expertise in those areas. We have the 
wraparound services provided there. Can you describe whether 
you think that would be successful or perhaps another 
recommendation you would have to address the specific needs of 
unaccompanied minors?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, I think anything that can be 
done to support the unique and complex needs of these children 
is welcome.
    Mr. Goldman. And then finally, I know my time is about up, 
but when you are addressing the unaccompanied minors that come 
in, can you break down what the sort of most common situation 
is, how they find themselves to be unaccompanied minors coming 
into the country?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. It is a great 
question. Many of the children are fleeing gang violence. Many 
of them have unique and complex situations. I can tell you 
about one child who, diagnosed with a terminal illness, was 
given two to four months to live, took the journey to the U.S. 
so he could join his mother and sisters. Our team worked hard 
to get them reunited. He spent the last six months of his life 
in home with his mom and sisters. Another young adult who was 
gang raped by gang members, reported it to the police, and that 
brought on greater heat from the gang and targeting of her and 
her family, and she made the decision to leave for her safety 
and joined an aunt, and is doing well.
    But they are very complex and many of them are 
heartbreaking, and the professional staff at ORR and our 
partners do everything we can to provide comprehensive services 
once they are referred into our care.
    Mr. Goldman. Well, thank you for all of the work you are 
doing. You are dealt with a really difficult situation, and I 
yield back.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Congressman Higgins?
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam, thank you for 
being with us today. What happens when these minors that you 
are charged with supervising to some extent, what happens when 
they turn 18?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. When they turn 18, we report that to DHS, 
and we provide a plan for them to access----
    Mr. Higgins. But they are out of your supervision at that 
point.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. That is correct.
    Mr. Higgins. OK. So, just to clarify this for America, when 
we discuss unaccompanied minors, Americans envision a lost, 
frightened, abandoned, small child, and as compassionate 
children of God, every American wants to just hug that child 
and care for that child, but that is not the reality, America. 
What they are talking about here is not a lost and abandoned 
and a frightened small child. The vast majority of these so-
called children, unaccompanied children, are actually 
undocumented illegal young adults.
    They come into your system with whatever vetting. I am not 
going to argue about it because you got no answers. They come 
into your system with whatever standard of vetting you are 
deciding that month to enforce. They get sent, at the expense 
of the American people, they get sent to their home of 
destination, recorded destination. They are 16, 17 years old. 
They are already short-timers in your system when they enter 
your system, and they are out, man. They are into the fabric of 
our country. They turn 18. They are gone.
    Of course, you say 81 percent. You chose your words very 
carefully. You are an intelligent American woman. You said 81 
percent of the time you have spoken to the sponsor or the 
child. I am not going to ask you because you will say you will 
get back with us with that data. You don't know it. But I would 
be willing to bet, that that 90 percent of the 81 percent, you 
spoke to some adult on the phone that identified himself as, 
yes, I am the sponsor. Yes, that is it. Check that box. We have 
contacted either the sponsor or the child, who is not really a 
child, the 17-year-old young adult, about to be out of your 
system.
    What does your department do with reports from local law 
enforcement, ma'am, when they are investigating criminal 
actions that include allegations of physical or psychological 
trauma or abuse for the young adults or so-called children that 
are allegedly under your care? What do you do? How many reports 
do you receive from local or state law enforcement across the 
country because these young undocumented adults are scattered 
across America, and they are coming into contact with local law 
enforcement?
    And you already know the answer to this question, but I 
would like to see what you have to say about it. What does your 
organization do? How frequently do you interact? Do you look at 
reports from local or state law enforcement that involve 
criminal investigations where your minor has been encompassed 
in that investigation in some way, not necessarily as a 
suspect, perhaps as a victim of the circumstance of the 
criminal environment that they find themselves in?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. ORR's custodial 
care ends when they are released to a vetted sponsor, so we do 
not track children. However, if law enforcement or CPS, if we 
become aware, we absolutely cooperate, support. It is local law 
enforcement and CPS that have the jurisdiction for children 
once they have been released from our care. If a call does come 
into the National Call Center reporting exploitation, abuse, we 
absolutely work with local law enforcement entities as well as 
the Office for Trafficking in Persons, DHS, et cetera.
    Mr. Higgins. I appreciate your response. Mr. Chairman, my 
time has expired. I yield.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Congresswoman Porter.
    Ms. Porter. This hearing is about a system that is failing 
kids. It is about a system where corporations exploit migrant 
children for a profit. It is about a system where our 
government fails to stop corporations from breaking child labor 
laws. Ms. Dunn Marcos, what practices has your Agency employed 
to ensure that children are only seeking safe and age-
appropriate employment opportunities once released to sponsors?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congresswoman. ORR's custodial 
authority ends when the child is released to a vetted sponsor. 
However, we do try to make sure that both the child and the 
sponsor understands labor laws, they understand where to get 
help if they are found to be in an exploitive or abusive 
situation. We have also just entered into an agreement with the 
Department of Labor and are working much more closely. We are 
also providing increased training to our staff to make sure 
they are best equipped to provide the orientation and guidance 
to children. We are also making sure that every child that 
departs our care has the National Call Center and knows how to 
get help in these situations.
    Ms. Porter. Today, you might expect that a Democrat would 
say that is good enough. The truth is, HHS can and must do more 
to vet sponsors and to follow up with kids, and it must be 
given sufficient resources by Congress to do exactly that and 
then held accountable to deliver. Look, no one gets a pass from 
me today, not when the number of minors employed illegally has 
increased by 283 percent since 2015. But, HHS is not getting a 
pass. HHS is here. I am worried about who is not on this panel. 
Ms. Dunn Marcos, who hires child laborers? Is it your Agency or 
big corporations?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congresswoman, it is private industry. ORR 
does not employ children.
    Ms. Porter. OK. Private industry. And who assigned more 
than 100 minors, many of whom were migrant children, to work 
overnight shifts in hazardous conditions at meatpacking plants 
across eight states, your Agency or big corporations?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Big corporations.
    Ms. Porter. And who employed migrant children as young as 
12 years old at several automotive manufacturing plants in 
Alabama, your Agency or big corporations?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Big corporations.
    Ms. Porter. Well, we don't have big corporations on the 
panel today. We do not even have the agencies that are 
responsible for enforcing child labor laws. I hope we have a 
follow-up hearing to address this gap because if we are serious 
about solving this problem, we need to hear from all of the 
actors that are part of creating it. Until then, Ms. Dunn 
Marcos, can you tell me what proactive steps your Agency is 
taking to better coordinate with the Department of Labor and 
state agencies? Not better coordination, specifically, what are 
you doing because it is concerning to me to hear you talk about 
educating migrant children, educating sponsors, having 
hotlines, when we have a lot of evidence that those very tools 
are failing kids. When they are calling hotlines, when they are 
raising flags, it is not getting followed up on. So, 
specifically, what are you doing?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congresswoman. There is a 
number of things we are doing, and I want to state that ORR is 
dedicated to continuous improvement. We take this job so 
seriously. This is about children, so we will never get to the 
goal post. We will continually improve to care for these 
children. Specifically, with this, we are working more closely 
with the Department of Labor. We have a number of things that 
we are looking at in terms of protocols when a report comes in. 
We can add additional supervisory review. We can stop 
placements to a particular zip code until we find more 
information. I mean, we do not and cannot, you know, cause 
undue delay in vetting, but we have to make sure that we are 
providing proper vetting and that we are releasing to a sponsor 
that will provide for the care and well-being.
    So, additional supervisory reviews, home visits, stopping 
placement, you know, working with local law enforcement as 
appropriate. There are a number of steps that we will continue 
to lean in on this to help resolve this situation.
    Ms. Porter. Look, corporate America needs to be held 
accountable for putting children in danger to boost their 
profits. It is gross and it is wrong, but I have always 
promised to hold the powerful to account regardless of 
political party. Ms. Dunn Marcos, I am calling on your Agency, 
as well as the Department of Labor and the White House, to 
continue to provide answers to the Committee on how will it 
address these abuses.
    In your testimony, you talk about how you have brought down 
the time to placement, 24 hours instead of the 72 maximum under 
the law, how you have brought down the time to within 30 days, 
but it is not just about the time. It is not just about the 
metric. It is about the quality of life and safety of these 
children, so I am asking you to please do better. I yield back.
    Oh, Mr. Chair. May I ask unanimous consent to introduce the 
HHS-DOL Memorandum of Agreement, dated March 2023, into the 
record?
    Mr. Grothman. Yes.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Congressman Sessions.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much, and I want 
to thank our witness for being here and the conversation that 
she is having with the Committee. Could you please tell me 
about your visits to the border?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, I have made one visit to the 
border. As the Director of ORR, my primary responsibility is to 
the children that are in our care.
    Mr. Sessions. Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much. When was 
that one visit?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. I started in September. I believe it was 
October or November.
    Mr. Sessions. So, you started in September 2022. Is that 
correct?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Yes, that is correct.
    Mr. Sessions. So, since September 2022, you visited the 
border one time. Where did you visit?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. I visited El Paso, and I may add that the 
border is DHS'.
    Mr. Sessions. That is not my question. I am not trying to 
expect anything other than the questions that I am asking you. 
What did you see when you were there? What was the purpose of 
your visit?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. I wanted to understand the full process 
that the children that come into our care go through, and I 
wanted to see firsthand that part of the process.
    Mr. Sessions. What were your evaluations of that?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. That these children experience an 
incredible amount of trauma in their journey to the U.S., and 
it is frightening and scary to be processed and not understand 
what may be happening to you.
    Mr. Sessions. OK.
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. So, I----
    Mr. Sessions. So, these are children, and many times they 
are with people that may or may not be their actual parents. We 
have heard stories. I have been to the border seven or eight 
times and heard the stories directly from people who are 
Federal agents and others who have said it is very routine that 
a person was put with an older person, and then they found out 
that that was not even their family. They were simply children 
that came along.
    I have heard you say today about the extreme conditions 
that people went through to come illegally to the United States 
of America. At any point, have you expressed to this 
Administration that the task that you are faced with, the 
important task of dealing with children, that perhaps what 
these children are going through, which will be lifelong images 
of not only disparity but of disrespect and harm to their 
lives, was encouraged, aided, and abetted by a policy that the 
President of United States and the Democratic Party is 
encouraging? Have you ever expressed that or thought those 
ideas?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, respectfully, my focus has 
been on the job I was hired to do.
    Mr. Sessions. So, in other words, you have no authority or 
responsibility to report, ``hey, Secretary Mayorkas, we are 
creating a circumstance here that is harmful and destructive to 
people's future.'' We have already heard a Member of this 
Committee suggest that that they should come here and not be 
able to get jobs, not be able to work, blame corporations for 
that. Well, it is hard for me to understand how this 
Administration continues to encourage, not only violations of 
the law, but bring millions of people here and thrust them to 
the streets. And then we wonder why we have drug epidemics and 
why we have crime rampant in our country. Just bring them here. 
Let them just sit on the side of the road.
    This is an embarrassment, in my opinion, and I think the 
opinion of most people where I represent in Texas, that we are 
encouraging this behavior. We are encouraging this, not only 
violation of the law, but against the dignity of men and women, 
by encouraging inducement of this process. So, it is my hope 
that next time, when you leave here, that you may go back and 
say, you know, maybe we are encouraging bad, not just illegal 
behavior, but things that will harm people's future.
    I want to thank you for taking time to be here today. I 
hope you will consider some of the feedback that this 
Subcommittee offers to you, and I want to thank you for your 
service. I yield back my time, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Grothman. Thanks much. Mr. LaTurner.
    Mr. LaTurner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
being here. Since President Biden has been in office, there 
have been over 4.8 million migrant encounters at the Southwest 
border, not including the roughly 1.3 million got-aways who 
evaded law enforcement completely and entered our country 
undetected. This unprecedented national security and 
humanitarian crisis has overwhelmed Federal officials and 
endangered the well-being of unaccompanied migrant children as 
a result.
    According to data published by the Office of Refugee 
Resettlement, since March 2021, HHS has averaged approximately 
11,000 children in its care per month. In 2015, the annual 
total of children released into the custody of sponsors in this 
country was 27,000. In 2022, that number was approximately 
127,000. That is nearly a fivefold annual increase over that 
timeframe.
    Congress has been attempting to conduct proper oversight of 
the Office of Refugee Resettlement for years, yet Agency 
decision-makers have willfully obstructed our constitutional 
mandate, as detailed by a 2021 Senate Finance Committee report. 
ORR's behavior has drawn bipartisan condemnation, but it is not 
just the run-of-the-mill bureaucratic obstruction which I find 
most concerning. It is that Agency decision-makers seem 
determined to undermine ORR's primary directive of safely 
relocating at-risk children.
    Secretary Becerra has urged HHS employees to process UACs 
out of this program at assembly line speed, resulting in at-
risk children being released to sponsors without proper 
vetting, exploited for illegal child labor, and put at risk for 
human trafficking. Furthermore, recent reporting issued by a 
grand jury in Florida alleges ORR actively discourages case 
managers and background checkers from questioning internal 
processes, instead, encouraging them to prioritize the 
processing speed of unaccompanied alien children over 
performing due diligence in regard to their safety. One Federal 
employee was even told by an ORR attorney to stop questioning 
agency policy regarding the resettlement of children to 
potentially unsafe sponsors or guardians because doing so would 
cause delays and that, ``We only get sued for keeping them too 
long. We don't get sued by traffickers. Are we clear?''
    These appalling anecdotes certainly make something clear: 
the Biden Administration's weak border security policies have 
not only invited the masses of people flowing over our Southern 
border, but incentivized the agencies responsible for 
processing them to sacrifice the livelihoods of children for 
the sake of political posturing. But, there is a simple 
solution to begin humanely addressing the record-high backlog 
of resettlement cases: securing our border.
    Director Marcos, operating under the assumption that many 
unaccompanied alien children either don't possess an ID or 
intentionally discard their ID as they approach our Southern 
border, is there a process in place for ORR to verify their 
age?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Thank you, Congressman. DHS does the 
initial assessment of the children and provides biographical 
information. They fingerprint anyone over 14 years of age. So, 
we receive this information on the child when they come into 
our care.
    Mr. LaTurner. Has there been an instance in which the age 
verification process has proven someone claiming to be a minor 
is actually an adult?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. That has happened, and when it happens, 
ORR has very strict policies and procedures in place. Anyone 
who would be suspected of an adult who came into the program, 
would be isolated, would not be around children, and we would 
go through steps to verify the age of that individual.
    Mr. LaTurner. In the event ORR receives intelligence that 
an unaccompanied alien child is potentially being victimized or 
abused by their sponsor, what Agency protocols are in place to 
alleviate the situation?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. A report is done immediately. We refer it 
to local law enforcement, Child Protective Service, and other 
Federal entities if and as appropriate.
    Mr. LaTurner. Approximately 66 percent of UACs work full-
time jobs, as reported by The New York Times. The Biden 
Administration only began to take corrective action to rectify 
the illegal child labor market following the publication of 
this piece. Was the Biden Administration unaware of this labor 
market vulnerability or unwilling to address it at the risk of 
drawing further attention to this issue?
    Ms. Dunn Marcos. Congressman, I can only speak to--since I 
have joined, I know that our team has been working with DOL on 
cases, I believe, since 2021. We have just formalized an 
agreement and really are leaning into increasing policies and 
procedures to combat this. This is a whole-of-government 
approach.
    Mr. LaTurner. Please hear me when I say this. We want you 
to be successful, but sadly, today, you are not. Mr. Chairman, 
I yield back.
    Mr. Grothman. It looks like that is all we have here. I 
would like to ask Mr. Garcia, do you have any closing comments 
you would like to make?
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank 
our witness, again, for being here today. And I just want to 
also remind the Committee that this is a very broad crisis were 
facing, and that you have a piece of a very serious problem 
that we are trying to address here in the Congress. And while 
we are having this conversation, we know that right now, the 
House Republican solution is to try to literally just attempt 
to end immigration and asylum. These are building block blocks 
of our country, particularly for unaccompanied children.
    Just this week, they are marking up a bill that would 
effectively end any sort of support and the work that you are 
doing, actually take us backward as it relates to funding for 
ORR and its critical mission. This bill within the Judiciary 
Committee that they are marking up, requires deportation for 
unaccompanied children and will drive undocumented children in 
the U.S. underground to even have less contact with Federal 
agencies. As we know, it is being discussed today. Children may 
attempt to completely cut ties and/or sponsors with all 
government agencies, including those designed to support and 
protect them from unlawful labor practices to avoid the risk of 
deportation. So, as a result, these bills currently in markup, 
and if they pass, would effectively make children more 
vulnerable to exploitation.
    We have a situation in front of us where, if we actually 
want to assist in the work of protecting children, expanding 
our follow-up process, ensuring that more children are safe, we 
should be funding these agencies appropriately. We should 
uplift the work that you are doing while also ensuring that 
every children is safe and protected. So, thank you. I yield 
back to the Chairman.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Thank you for coming over. I think 
I speak for probably all Majority Members on the panel, I am 
very disappointed of all the answers you were unable to give 
us. To me, look, overall, we have gone from in the final year--
COVID was half of the final year--having 15,000 unaccompanied 
minors having to deal with, within a couple of years, it shot 
up to 128,000, which the entire year was COVID related. So, a 
lot of these problems stem from just the open borders policy. 
You cannot go from 15,000 kids to 128,000 kids and not think 
you are going to be able to remotely handle them.
    I am very disappointed that you do not know, percentage-
wise, those 128,000 you did DNA testing on. I know the Border 
Patrol does it occasionally, and it is not unusual for them to 
find a situation in which they were lying about whether the kid 
is related or not. You do not know the percent of these kids 
who you talk to one parent and percent two parents. I would 
like to know that. I think it is relevant. A couple of years 
ago, under the past Administration, it was considered nothing 
worse than having children separated from their parents for a 
few weeks. Now we have children being separated from their 
parents for the rest of their lives, and you don't know how 
many times we have not even had contact with the parents.
    There was a very good question here, the sponsor rejection 
rate, are any of these sponsors, you know, inadequate. You did 
not know what the percentage of that rate is. The fact that we 
do not know where 85,000 unaccompanied minors are, according to 
The New York Times, is kind of scary. I realize that is not 
necessarily your responsibility, but to say 85,000 kids running 
around this country, we do not know where they are? I mean, 
that is just unacceptable.
    You were unable to ask the question what is being done to 
prevent whistleblower retaliation and ensure reports are taken 
seriously. That is something we should know about, and I think 
we do not have an adequate response as to what we know about 
other people in these families. I mean, you imply that we found 
an uncle for this person. There are people who know their 
uncles like their brother, and there are people who have never 
met their uncle before in their life. And, you know, sometimes 
these sponsors are in a household, maybe the one person we 
don't have a background check on, or we do a background check 
on, but other people we do not.
    So, a lot of people have been asking questions that, 
presumably, you will get back to us within a week or two with 
the answers. I am glad we had the hearing. I guess the takeaway 
on the hearing is, if you go with this open doors policy, part 
of the open door is going to mean we have a lot of 
unaccompanied minors attached from their parents coming to the 
country, and, not surprisingly, we have no idea where they are 
winding up or no idea whether they are safe or not. But in any 
event, that is it.
    With that, and without objection, all Members have five 
legislative days within which to submit materials and submit 
additional written questions for this witness, which will be 
forward to the witness for her response.
    Mr. Grothman. If there is no further business, without 
objection, the Subcommittee stands adjourned. Thank you.
    [Whereupon, at 11:57 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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