[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                 EXAMINING THE POLICIES AND PRIORITIES
                  OF THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                              Before The

                    COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________



              HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, MAY 26, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-47

                               __________

    Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Workforce
    
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        Available via: edworkforce.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________
 
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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                    COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR

             ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia, Chairman

RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona            VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina,
JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut              Ranking Member
GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN,      JOE WILSON, South Carolina
  Northern Marina Islands            GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania
FREDERICA WILSON, Florida            TIM WALBERG, Michigan
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon             GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
MARK TAKANO, California              ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York
ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina        RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia
MARK DeSAULNIER, California          JIM BANKS, Indiana
DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey          JAMES COMER, Kentucky
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington          RUSS FULCHER, Idaho
JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York          FRED KELLER, Pennsylvania
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania             MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa
LUCY McBATH, Georgia                 BURGESS OWENS, Utah
JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut            BOB GOOD, Virginia
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan, Vice Chairman  LISA McCLAIN, Michigan
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota                DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee
HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan           MARY MILLER, Illinios
TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico   VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
MONDAIRE JONES, New York             SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina        MADISON CAWTHORN, North Carolina
FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana              MICHELLE STEEL, California
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York              CHRIS JACOBS, New York
SHEILA CHERFILUS-McCORMICK, Florida  VACANCY
MARK POCAN, Wisconsin                VACANCY
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland

                   Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director
                  Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on May 26, 2022.....................................     1

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

    Scott, Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'', Chairman, Committee on 
      Education and Labor........................................     2
        Prepared statement of....................................     4
    Foxx, Hon. Virginia, Ranking Member, Committee on Education 
      and Labor..................................................     5
        Prepared statement of....................................     7

                               WITNESSES

    Cardona, Miguel, Secretary of Education, U.S. Department of 
      Education..................................................     9
        Prepared statement of....................................    11

                         ADDITIONAL SUBMISSIONS

    Ranking Member Foxx:
        Article from FREOPP.org titled ``Is Grad School Worth It? 
          A Comprehensive Return on Investment Analysis''........   115
    Allen, Hon. Rick W., a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Georgia:
        Letter dated April 28, 2022 to Richard Woods.............    36
    Bonamici, Hon. Suzanne, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Oregon:
        Brief from the National Head Start Association...........   137
    Steel, Hon. Michelle, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of California:
        Amicus Brief.............................................    71

                        QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

    Responses to questions submitted for the record by:
        Mr. Miguel Cardona.......................................   142

 
                 EXAMINING THE POLICIES AND PRIORITIES
                  OF THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

                              ----------                              


                         Thursday, May 26, 2022

                  House of Representatives,
                  Committee on Education and Labor,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 12 p.m., via 
Zoom, Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'' Scott (Chairman of the 
Committee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Scott, Grijalva, Courtney, Sablan, 
Wilson of Florida, Bonamici, DeSaulnier, Norcross, Wild, 
McBath, Hayes, Levin, Stevens, Leger Fernandez, Manning, 
Bowman, Pocan, Espaillat, Mfume, Foxx, Wilson of South 
Carolina, Walberg, Grothman, Stefanik, Allen, Banks, Fulcher, 
Keller, Miller-Meeks, Owens, Good, Harshbarger, Miller, 
Fitzgerald, Steel, and Jacobs.
    Staff present: Britany Alston, Staff Assistant; Phoebe 
Ball, Disability Counsel; Melissa Bellin, Professional Staff; 
Amaris Benavidez, Fellow; Jessica Bowen, Professional Staff; 
Nekea Brown, Director of Operations; Scott Estrada, 
Professional Staff; Rashage Green, Director of Education 
Policy; Christian Haines, General Counsel; Rasheedah Hasan, 
Chief Clerk; Sheila Havenner, Director of Information 
Technology; Danyelle Honore, Fellow; Emily Hopkins, Fellow; 
Ariel Jones, Policy Associate; Stephanie Lalle, Communications 
Director; Andre Lindsay, Policy Associate; Aileen Ma, 
Professional Staff; Kota Mizutani, Deputy Communications 
Director; Max Moore, Policy Associate; Casey Peeks, 
Professional Staff; Kayla Pennebecker, Staff Assistant; 
Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director; Manasi Raveendran, 
Oversight Counsel-Education; Jessica Schieder, Economic Policy 
Advisor; Theresa Thompson, Professional Staff; Banyon Vassar, 
Deputy Director of Information Technology; Sam Varie, Press 
Secretary; Claire Viall, Professional Staff; ArRone Washington, 
Clerk and Special Assistant to the Staff Director; Cyrus Artz, 
Minority Staff Director; Gabriel Bisson, Minority Staff 
Assistant; Caitlin Burke, Minority Professional Staff Member; 
Cody Christensen, Minority Research Assistant; Cate Dillon, 
Minority Director of Operations; Mini Ganesh, Minority Staff 
Assistant; Amy Raaf Jones, Minority Director of Education and 
Human Resources Policy; David Maestas, Minority Fellow; John 
Martin, Minority Deputy Director of Workforce Policy/Counsel; 
Hannah Matesic, Minority Director of Operations; Audra 
McGeorge, Minority Communications Director; Eli Mitchell, 
Minority Legislative Assistant; Ethan Pann, Minority Press 
Assistant; Krystina Skurk, Minority Speechwriter; Mary 
Christina Riley, Minority Professional Staff Member; Chance 
Russell, Minority Professional Staff Member; Mandy Schaumburg, 
Minority Chief Counsel and Deputy Director of Education Policy; 
Brad Thomas, Minority Senior Education Policy Advisor.
    Chairman Scott. Good morning. The Committee on Education 
and Labor will come to order. Welcome to everyone, and I note 
that a quorum is present. The committee is meeting today to 
hear testimony on Examining the Policies and Priorities of the 
United States Department of Education.
    This is an entirely remote hearing and as such the 
committee's hearing room is officially closed. All microphones 
will be kept muted as a general rule to avoid unnecessary 
background noise. Members and the witnesses will be responsible 
for unmuting themselves when they are recognized to speak or 
when they wish to seek recognition.
    If a member or the witness experiences technical 
difficulties during the hearing please stay connected to the 
platform, make sure you are muted, and use your phone to 
immediately call the committee's IT director whose number was 
provided in advance.
    Should the Chair experience any technical difficulties or 
need to step away another majority member is hereby authorized 
to assume the gavel in the Chair's absence. In order to ensure 
that the committee's 5-minute rule is adhered to, staff will be 
keeping track of time using the committee's field timer, which 
appears in its own thumbnail picture and will show a blinking 
light when time is up.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(c), opening statements are 
limited to the Chair and Ranking Member. I recognize myself for 
the purpose of making an opening statement.
    Two days ago, 19 children and 2 educators were gunned down 
in an elementary school in Texas. Regrettably, this is too 
common an occurrence in this country, and according to 
Education Week, we have suffered 27 school shootings already 
this year alone. We could have prevented a lot of these if 
elected leaders valued children and families more than guns, 
instead time and time again Congress has failed to act to enact 
any sensible, or widely supported proposals to respond to these 
tragedies and prevent another one from happening.
    Today, I call on each of us as members of the Committee on 
Education and Labor to do everything we can to protect schools 
and communities from gun violence and to ensure that this most 
recent tragedy will be the last. I therefore ask everyone to 
join me in a moment of silence to honor the students and 
educators who have died, and their loved ones, and the entire 
school community in Texas.
    [Moment of Silence]
    Thank you. Secretary Cardona, thank you for being with us 
today. We look forward to hearing your testimony on how we can 
help students recover from the pandemic and succeed. Today, 99 
percent of our schools are open to full-time, in-person 
learning, 5 days a week.
    The safe reopening of America's public schools would not 
have been possible with the President's American Rescue Plan, 
which delivered the largest one-time Federal investment in K 
through 12 education in our Nation's history. Importantly, this 
funding was distributed using the Title I-A formula, so the 
greatest resources went to the communities with the greatest 
need.
    There are expenses that schools need to open safely, like 
fixing dilapidated, or improperly working, ventilation systems. 
This is an airborne pandemic, making sure they have more 
transportation, you cannot pack as many students on a bus 
during an airborne pandemic.
    You have to hire counselors and nurses during the pandemic, 
PPE, things that were not in the budget when the schools began 
before the pandemic. To open safely, they needed the resources 
in the American Rescue Plan which provided the resources so 
that schools could open safely.
    Schools that use these relief funding to cover the costs of 
implementing school-based COVID-19 testing, upgrading 
ventilation systems, and hiring additional staff to reduce the 
capacity in classrooms and buses, and importantly the Rescue 
Plan has also required at least 20 percent of the funding to go 
toward strategies to address learning loss and closing 
achievement gaps.
    The achievement gaps, as everyone knows, were exacerbated 
during the pandemic. To do so, school districts in my community 
and across the country, have extended school days, hired 
counselors, and offered comprehensive after school and summer 
programs.
    Schools are also using this funding to develop innovative 
programs that are helping students not only make up for lost 
learning, but also prepare for the modern economy. Last month I 
visited a new STEM resource lab in my district where elementary 
school students were programming robots to maneuver an obstacle 
course. This is just one example of how investments in students 
and educators can create new opportunities in schools that help 
all students succeed.
    Regrettably for too long, not all students have had the 
support they need to reach their full potential. For example, 
in our K through 12 schools, black students, boys, students 
with disabilities, and others face harsher disciplinary 
practices at disproportionately higher rates. In our 
institutions of higher education, there continues to be a 
prevalence of sexual assault and harassment, and a lack of 
accountability of the institutions to safeguard the students. I 
am pleased that in response, the Biden Harris administration 
has collected data as an initial step to help inform schools in 
addressing disparities in school disciplinary practices, and I 
am looking forward to seeing a new Title I, excuse me, Title IX 
rule, that will improve protections and supports to survivors 
of sexual harassment and discrimination that could be done 
without violating fundamental due process protections for the 
accused.
    Finally, the Federal student loans are critical to 
expanding access to the benefits of a quality, higher education 
for all students. However, over the past few decades it has 
become increasingly clear that today's students are taking on a 
lot more loans than in the past, and that our student loan 
system must be improved to fulfill its promise.
    This is why the Biden administration is taking historic 
steps to forgive more than 17 billion dollars in debt for 
725,000 borrowers, to make sure that our student loan program 
puts borrower's needs first. Since the beginning of the 
pandemic, we have ensured that borrowers of federally held 
student loans were spared from making payments on their loans 
and accruing interest on them.
    The administration has also provided temporary changes to 
expand access to the public service loan forgiveness program 
during the pandemic. Already the administration has given 6.8 
billion dollars in debt, covering more than 113,000 loans 
through this program. This includes 233 million dollars in debt 
forgiveness for roughly 4,000 borrowers in my home State of 
Virginia.
    Simply put, the Department of Education under the Biden 
administration has taken historic steps to get us back on 
track; however, we know that there is more that still needs to 
be done. To that end I look forward to hearing how the 
President's budget proposal will strengthen our continued 
progress to help every student reap the lifelong benefits of a 
high-quality education.
    In addition to whatever the administration is going to do 
with loan discharges, we need to make sure that we 
significantly increase the Pell Grant to restore it to its 
historic value; eliminate or significantly reduce interest on 
loans; make the public service loan forgiveness and interest-
based programs more generous; promote short-term Pell's, so 
that you can use your Pell Grant for job training programs as 
well as college courses that lead to a degree.
    We need to make sure that those are just the beginning to 
make sure that college is accessible to all. Thank you, Mr. 
Secretary for your time today, and your work in support of our 
Nation's students, and I am now pleased to recognize the 
Ranking Member, Dr. Foxx, for the purpose of making her opening 
statement.
    Dr. Foxx.
    [The Statement of Chairman Scott follows:]

  Statement of Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'' Scott, Chairman, Committee on 
                          Education and Labor

    Two days ago, 19 children and two educators were gunned down in an 
elementary school in Texas.
    Regrettably, this is too common of an occurrence in this country. 
According to Education Week, we have suffered 27 school shootings 
already this year, alone.
    We could have prevented a lot of these this if elected leaders 
valued children and families more than guns. Instead, time and time 
again, Congress has failed to enact any sensible or widely supported 
proposals to respond to these tragedies and prevent another one from 
happening.
    Today, I call on each of us, as members of the Committee on 
Education and Labor, to do everything we can to protect schools and 
communities from gun violence, and to ensure that this most recent 
tragedy will be the last.
    Therefore, I ask everyone to join me in a moment of silence to 
honor the students and educators who died, their loved ones, and the 
entire school community in Texas.
    Thank you.
    Secretary Cardona, thank you for being with us today. We look 
forward to hearing your vision to help all students recover from the 
pandemic and succeed.
    Today, 99 percent of our schools are open for full-time, in-person 
learning five days a week. The safe reopening of America's public 
schools would not have been possible without the President's American 
Rescue Plan, which delivered the largest, one-time federal investment 
in K-12 education in our nation's history. Importantly, this funding 
was distributed using the Title I-A formula, so the greatest resources 
went to communities with the greatest need.
    There are expenses that schools need to open safely, like fixing 
dilapidated or improperly working ventilation systems. This is an 
airborne pandemic. Making sure they have more transportation--you 
cannot pack as many students on a bus during an airborne pandemic. You 
have to hire counselors and nurses during the pandemic, PPE, things 
that were not in the budget when the schools began before the pandemic. 
To open safely, they needed the resources of the American Rescue Plan 
provided the resources so the schools could open safely.
    Schools have used this relief funding to cover the costs of 
implementing school-based COVID-19 testing, upgrading ventilation 
systems, and hiring additional staff to reduce capacity in classrooms 
and buses.
    Importantly, the American Rescue Plan also required that at least 
20 percent of the funding districts received go towards strategies to 
address learning loss and close the achievement gap. Achievement gaps, 
as everyone knows, were exacerbated during the pandemic. To do so, 
school districts in my community and across the country have extended 
school days, hired counselors, and offered comprehensive after school 
and summer programs.
    Schools are also using this funding to develop innovative programs 
that are helping students not only make up for lost learning, but also 
prepare for the modern economy.
    Last month, I visited a new STEM resource lab in my district where 
elementary school students were programming robots to maneuver an 
obstacle course.
    This is just one example of how investments in students and 
educators can create new opportunities in schools that help all 
students succeed.
    Regrettably, for too long, not all students have had the support 
they need to reach their full potential.For example, in our K-12 
schools, Black students, boys, students with disabilities, and others 
face harsher discipline practices at disproportionately high rates. In 
our institutions of higher education, there continues to be a 
prevalence of sexual assault and harassment and a lack of 
accountability of the institutions to safeguard students.
    I am pleased that, in response, the Biden-Harris administration has 
collected data as an initial step to help inform schools on addressing 
disparities in school disciplinary practices. I am looking forward to 
seeing a new Title IX rule that will improve the protections and 
support survivors of sexual harassment and discrimination that can be 
done without violating fundamental due process for the accused.
    Finally, federal student loans are critical to expanding access to 
the benefits of a quality, higher education for all students. However, 
over the past few decades, it has become increasingly clear that our 
students are taking on a lot more loans than in the past and that our 
student loan system must be improved to fulfill its promise.
    This is why the Biden administration has taken historic steps to 
forgive more than $17 billion in debt for 725,000 borrowers and ensure 
that our student loan programs puts borrowers' needs first. Since the 
beginning of the pandemic, we have ensured that borrowers of federally 
held student loans were spared from making payments on their loans and 
accruing interest on them.
    The Administration has also provided temporary changes to expand 
access to the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program during the 
pandemic. Already, the administration has forgiven $6.8 billion in debt 
covering more than 113,000 loans through this program. This includes 
$233 million in debt forgiveness for roughly 4,000 borrowers in my home 
state of Virginia.
    Simply put, the Department of Education under the Biden 
administration has taken historic steps to get us back on track. 
However, we know there is more that still needs to be done.
    To that end, I look forward to hearing how the President's budget 
proposal would strengthen our continued progress to help every student 
reap the lifelong benefits of a high-quality education.In addition to 
whatever the administration is going to do with loan discharges, we 
need to make sure that we significantly increase the Pell Grant to 
restore it to its historic value; eliminate or significantly reduce 
interest on loans; make the Public Service Loan Forgiveness and 
interest-based programs more generous; promote short-term Pell so you 
can use your Pell Grant for job training programs, as well as college 
courses that lead to a degree. We need to make sure that those are just 
the beginning to make sure college is accessible to all.
    Thank you, Mr. Secretary for your time today and your work in 
support of our nation's students.
                                 ______
                                 
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Mr. 
Secretary, it is good to see you. There are no right words to 
describe the heartbreaking and horrific tragedy that happened 
at Robb Elementary School. I thank the chairman for having a 
moment of silence at the beginning.
    We as a nation are devastated by the loss of so many 
precious lives. My prayers are with the victims, their fellow 
students, families, colleagues, and the community of Uvalde, 
Texas. We must be thoughtful about how we discuss and handle 
school safety and mental health issues.
    Federal changes should not be made in haste, and there are 
still many details we do not know as the investigation 
continues. Mr. Chairman, as I have said before, we stand ready 
to work with you to examine the Federal programs under our 
jurisdiction to help families, schools, and communities, 
prevent these tragedies from occurring, and while we keep 
Uvalde in our prayers, we will move forward with the business 
at hand today.
    Mr. Secretary, I wish this was going to be a hearing of 
great agreement and examples of our working together. 
Unfortunately, that is not the case. The Biden administration 
has promised to enact unpopular and expensive mass student loan 
forgiveness by executive fiat, but anyone who looks at what the 
Department of Education has done over the past year can see 
that blanket student loan forgiveness is already well underway.
    First the Education Department expanded the public service 
loan forgiveness, PSLF program, well beyond the narrow limits 
set by Congress. In a letter sent to you last October, I 
criticized the Department for turning this already expensive 
program into ``open ended loan forgiveness'' for millions of 
borrowers.
    This is not the only vehicle this administration has used 
to smuggle in mass student loan forgiveness. The Department 
also waived the requirements for income-driven repayment plans, 
canceling debt for ineligible borrowers under the guise of 
targeted forgiveness.
    According to the Department that means potentially wiping 
the student loan balances for more than 4 million borrowers, 
many of whom have incomes well beyond that of the individuals 
these programs were intended to help. The administration is 
right on one thing, these programs are broken. It is hard to 
justify to taxpayers that they should pour more money into a 
program forgiving nearly 200 billion dollars in loans for 
graduate students, or programs like PSLF, which forgives an 
average $100,000.00 in forgiveness per borrower, a third of 
whom are making well into six figures.
    We need programs that protect borrowers and taxpayers, not 
unsustainable programs that will exacerbate the ballooning 
prices colleges and universities charge students. It is clear 
that student loan cancellation was on the horizon when 
President Biden took office.
    His continual extensions of the student loan repayment 
clause, which have already cost taxpayers over 100 billion 
dollars, will signal that mass forgiveness was on the way. 
Never mind the fact that Biden's skyrocketing inflation is 
disproportionately harming those who never went to college, the 
very same individuals expected to foot the bill for Biden's 
loan forgiveness.
    President Biden insists on going even further and is 
reportedly moving toward blanket forgiveness to the tune of 
$10,000.00 per borrower, without congressional authorization. 
Further, forgiving student loans to try to win back some 
voters, while alienating the two-thirds of Americans without 
baccalaureate degrees, cuts directly against our shared goal of 
unifying the country.
    Moreover, what does loan forgiveness do for the millions of 
students taking out loans tomorrow? It does not lower college 
costs, nor does it improve student outcomes. It simply 
exacerbates the problems of our higher education system, which 
is in desperate need of reform.
    Mr. Secretary, I stand ready to work with you, the 
President, and our democrat colleagues to fix it. Let us tackle 
these issues and deliver meaningful bipartisan reform that will 
lower college costs, ensure students graduate with affordable 
debt, and increase college completion, so we can set students 
up for success.
    Mass student loan forgiveness is not the answer. It would 
break the Federal Government's commitment to taxpayers that 
providing access to higher education will benefit every 
American by making those who took out loans a priority, over 
those that did not go to college, or those who paid for college 
without borrowing money.
    Indeed, the loan program provides millions of low-and 
middle-income borrowers the opportunity to move up the income 
ladder, but instituting massive student loan forgiveness makes 
this program unsustainable. Surely, last minute political 
gambles are not worth undermining our ability to provide 
educational opportunities to those who otherwise would not have 
them, and unfortunately, my concerns with the Department of 
Education extend far beyond its higher education agenda.
    We have seen this administration disrespect parents, when 
the National Schools Boards Association insinuated parents for 
the problem. I was shocked when the Department of Justice 
issued a memo basically endorsing that view. I was extremely 
disappointed your department did not rally it to stand up for 
parents.
    Schools should be in partnership with parents, not just 
trying to cast them aside. I also have concerns about your 
continuing to push to end, or limit as much as possible, school 
choice. From the D.C. Choice Program to your Charter School 
Rule, you favor teacher unions over families, and often over 
families desperate for an education that gives their child the 
opportunity to achieve life-long success.
    Finally, I fear your coming rewrite of the regulations on 
Title IX will only exacerbate parent's frustration and mistrust 
by ratifying a world view that denies basic science, treats 
parents as an obstacle, and seeks to undermine the very 
opportunities for girls that Title IX has helped protect and 
expand.
    Finally, conducting robust oversight and holding the 
executive branch accountable for how it spends taxpayers 
dollars, and administers the law are critical for a functioning 
and strong government. Action, without proper oversight and 
transparency, leads to unlawful and careless actions.
    Unfortunately, your agency has been unhelpful, and 
downright obstructive at time. Mr. Secretary, we cannot tackle 
these issues successfully if we do not work together. Thank 
you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    [The Statement of Ranking Member Foxx follows:]

Statement of Hon. Virginia Foxx, Ranking Member, Committee on Education 
                               and Labor

    There are no right words to describe the heartbreaking and horrific 
tragedy that happened at Robb Elementary School. I thank the Chairman 
for having a moment of silence at the beginning of this hearing.
    We as a nation are devastated by the loss of so many precious 
lives. My prayers are with the victims, their fellow students, 
families, colleagues, and the community of Uvalde, Texas.
    We must be thoughtful about how we discuss and handle school safety 
and mental health issues. Federal changes should not be made in haste, 
and there are still many details we do not know as the investigation 
continues.
    Mr. Chairman, as have said before, we stand ready to work with you 
to examine the federal programs under our jurisdiction to help 
families, schools, and communities prevent these tragedies from 
occurring. While we keep Uvalde in our prayers, we will move forward 
with the business at hand today.
    Mr. Secretary, I wish this was going to be a hearing of great 
agreement and examples of our working together. Unfortunately, that is 
not the case. The Biden administration has promised to enact unpopular 
and expensive mass student loan forgiveness by executive fiat, but 
anyone who looks at what the Department of Education has done over the 
past year can see that blanket student loan forgiveness is already well 
underway.
    First, the Education Department expanded the Public Service Loan 
Forgiveness (PSLF) program well beyond the narrow limits set by 
Congress. In a letter sent to you last October, I criticized the 
Department for turning this already expensive program into `open-ended 
loan forgiveness' for millions of borrowers. This is not the only 
vehicle this administration has used to smuggle in mass student loan 
forgiveness.
    The Department also waived the requirements for income-driven 
repayment plans, canceling debt for ineligible borrowers under the 
guise of `targeted forgiveness.' According to the Department, that 
means potentially wiping the student loan balances for more than 4 
million borrowers, many of whom have incomes well beyond that of the 
individuals these programs were intended to help. The administration is 
right on one thing: these programs are broken. It is hard to justify to 
taxpayers that they should pour more money into a program forgiving 
nearly $200 billion in loans for graduate students, or programs like 
PSLF which forgives an average of $100,000 in forgiveness per 
borrower--a third of whom are making well into six-figures. We need 
programs that protect borrowers and taxpayers, not unsustainable 
programs that will exacerbate the ballooning prices colleges and 
universities charge students.
    It was clear that student loan cancellation was on the horizon when 
President Biden took office. His continual extensions of the student 
loan repayment pause--which have already cost taxpayers over $100 
billion--were a signal that mass forgiveness was on the way. Never mind 
the fact that Biden's skyrocketing inflation is disproportionately 
harming those who never went to college--the very same individuals 
expected to foot the bill for Biden's loan forgiveness.
    President Biden insists on going even further and is reportedly 
moving towards blanket forgiveness to the tune of $10,000 per borrower 
without Congressional authorization. Further, forgiving student loans 
to try and win back some voters while alienating the two thirds of 
Americans without baccalaureate degrees cuts directly against our 
shared goal of unifying the country.
    Moreover, what does loan forgiveness do for the millions of 
students taking out loans tomorrow? It does not lower college costs, 
nor does it improve student outcomes. It simply exacerbates the 
problems of our higher education system, which is in desperate need of 
reform.
    Mr. Secretary, I stand ready to work with you, the President, and 
my Democrat colleagues to fix it. Let us tackle these issues and 
deliver meaningful, bipartisan reform that will lower college costs, 
ensure students graduate with affordable debt, and increase college 
completion so we can set students up for success.
    Mass student loan forgiveness is not the answer. It would break the 
federal government's commitment to taxpayers that providing access to 
higher education will benefit every American by making those who took 
out loans a priority over those who did not go to college or those who 
paid for college without borrowing money. Indeed, the loan program 
provides millions of low and middle-income borrowers the opportunity to 
move up the income ladder, but instituting mass student loan 
forgiveness makes this program unsustainable. Surely last-minute 
political gambles are not worth undermining our ability to provide 
educational opportunities to those who otherwise would not have 
them.Unfortunately, my concerns with the Department of Education extend 
far beyond its higher education agenda. We have seen this 
administration disrespect parents. When the National School Boards 
Association insinuated parents were the problem, I was shocked that the 
Department of Justice issued a memo basically endorsing that view. I 
was extremely disappointed your Department did not rally to stand up 
for parents. Schools should be in partnership with parents, not just 
trying to cast them aside.
    I also have concerns about your continued push to end--or limit as 
much as possible--school choice. From the D.C. Choice program to your 
charter school rule, you have favored teachers' unions over families. 
Often over families desperate for an education that gives their child 
the opportunity to achieve lifelong success. Finally, I fear your 
coming rewrite of the regulations on Title IX will only exacerbate 
parents' frustration and mistrust by ratifying a world view that denies 
basic science, treats parents as an obstacle, and seeks to undermine 
the very opportunities for girls that Title IX has helped protect and 
expand.
    Finally, conducting robust oversight and holding the executive 
branch accountable for how it spends taxpayer dollars and administers 
the law are critical for a functioning and strong government. Action 
without proper oversight and transparency leads to unlawful and 
careless actions. Unfortunately, your agency has been unhelpful and 
downright obstructive at times.
    Mr. Secretary, we cannot tackle these issues successfully if we do 
not work together.
                                 ______
                                 
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Thank you. Without objection, 
all other members who wish to insert written statements into 
the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk 
electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5 p.m. on June 9, 
2022.
    I will now introduce our distinguished witness. The 
Honorable Miguel Cardona is the 12th Secretary of the 
Department of Education. He previously served as the 
Commissioner of Education for the State of Connecticut, and he 
has for two decades--he has two decades of experience as a 
public-school educator in his hometown of Meridian, 
Connecticut.
    He holds a bachelor's degree from Central Connecticut State 
University, a master's degree, a 6-year advanced certificate, 
and a doctorate in education from the University of 
Connecticut. We appreciate, Mr. Secretary, for you 
participating today, and look forward to your testimony. Your 
written statement will appear in full in the hearing record, 
and you are asked to limit your oral presentation to 
approximately 5 minutes, and after your presentation we will 
move to member's questions.
    The witness is aware of his responsibility to provide 
accurate information to the committee, and therefore we will 
proceed directly to his testimony.
    Secretary Cardona.

STATEMENT OF HON. MIGUEL CARDONA, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION, U.S. 
                    DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Chairman Scott, Ranking 
Member Foxx, members of this distinguished committee, good 
afternoon, and thank you. I will do my best to answer questions 
on the budget, to tell you that this proposal will be our best 
tool to address inequities, the best tool to provide pathways 
to college, and to help our country recover from the pandemic.
    I would be failing you as Secretary of Education if I did 
not tell you how ashamed I am that we as a country are becoming 
desensitized to the murder of children. I would be failing you 
as a Secretary of Education if I did not use this platform to 
say that students and teachers and school leaders are scared, 
that after Columbine, after Sandy Hook, after Parkland, after 
each of these, and the many other massacres, we as educators 
did our best to look parents in the eyes and assure them that 
we will do everything to protect their babies.
    After each of these massacres we have held staff trainings, 
active shooter drills, we have numbered our windows for easier 
access for law enforcement. We have improved online early 
detection screening tools, and we secured our entrances and 
perimeters. That is no match for what we are up against.
    That was no match for Irma Garcia, and no match for Eva 
Mireles, and those 19 beautiful souls. Educators across the 
country have, and would give their lives to protect children, 
but damn it, that is not enough. Unless you have gone to a 
funeral of a child, you will never know. We can do better, and 
we must do better.
    There are no words. As parents, protecting our children is 
more important than anything else. As an educator, helping 
children grow and thrive, that is our calling. We need help, 
and we need help now. I will transition to the purpose of this 
hearing, but do not think for 1 second that my focus today, and 
the focus of all of my team at the United States Department of 
Education is on anything but how we can better serve the 
students of Uvalde, Texas, and their grieving families.
    Let us not normalize this. Let is use every ounce of 
influence that we have to get something done to help prevent 
this from happening again. The time for thoughts and prayers 
alone is over. We need action. Americans are looking to us to 
solve difficult problems. We should be humbled by this 
opportunity to make a more perfect union.
    We need to do better. Our kids deserve better, let us find 
a path forward. Today's hearing is about more than President 
Biden's proposed investments for education in the Fiscal Year 
2023. It is about the needs of our students, and how we can 
meet them if we do work together.
    The priorities in this budget reflect what I have learned 
visiting 32 states across America. I visited small towns, 
affluent suburbs, urban and rural communities, including tribal 
communities. Addressing opportunity and achievement gaps that 
were made worse in the pandemic is more important now than 
ever. Let us close opportunity gaps by investing in our Title I 
schools.
    This is the best tool we have for reducing inequities 
between underfunded schools and their wealthier counterparts. 
Let us also invest in full-service community schools, which 
provide high poverty communities easier access to services for 
health, for nutrition, for enrichment, adult education, and 
much more. In a recent visit to New Mexico, I met with students 
struggling with anxiety and depression, with trauma from losing 
parents amid the pandemic.
    Our children are hurting. Anxiety and depression have 
doubled among youth. Teen suicide rates are on the rise. Let us 
invest a billion dollars in hiring staff and building their 
skillsets to support student's mental health needs, so they can 
be their best in their classroom.
    I met with principals and superintendents, in red states 
and in blue states, trying to fill vacancies, so teachers could 
spend more time supporting the individualized needs that we 
know our students have. They need help. We are proposing 350 
million dollars for recruiting and retaining teachers. The 
profession is in crisis, and we have a solution.
    I traveled the country listening to parents, to students, 
and families. Families are concerned with recovery. They are 
concerned with their kid's reading level in school. They are 
concerned with getting back to school and not letting politics 
divide the classroom. Our parents want their children to learn.
    The American Rescue Plan got us this far. We went from 46 
percent of our schools fully opened when the plan passed to 
over 99 percent of our schools fully open now. With your 
investments let us build more inclusive, affordable pathways to 
higher education and rewarding careers for all of our students. 
Our budget calls for investments in community colleges, 
historically black colleges and universities, Hispanic serving 
institutions, tribal colleges, and other inclusive 
institutions.
    Let us increase Pell by $1,775.00 for `23, so that more 
kids can get to college across America. We are proposing 200 
million dollars for career connected learning, so more 
underserved students graduate high school with the industry 
credentials and the college credits that they need.
    High school students across the country need more options. 
We have a plan. Look, education gave me the tools to achieve 
the American dream. I grew up in a blue-collar community of 
Meridan. I only had what my public schools offered me. I 
attended a Title I school and graduated from a technical high 
school.
    I became a first gen college student. I am a bilingual 
certified educator who benefited from quality teacher 
preparation and professional development. I am a product of the 
investments in this budget. Education brought the promise of 
this country alive for me. We must renew that promise for 
today's students and those to come, and for the last 2 years we 
were tested in ways we could never imagine before.
    We persevered through with a sense of urgency, 
collaboration at the local level, and a focus on our students. 
We are now challenged in a different way. We must work together 
to protect children with a greater sense of urgency and 
collaboration at the Federal level. Our students are watching. 
Let us not let them down, thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Secretary Cardona follows:]

    Statement of Hon. Miguel Cardona, Secretary of Education, U.S. 
                        Department of Education

    Good morning, Chairman Scott and Ranking Member Foxx.
    I am pleased to join you today, and I am proud to testify on behalf 
of President Biden's fiscal year 2023 Budget Request for the Department 
of Education. This request reflects President Biden's deep belief in 
the importance of education and the success and well-being of our 
nation's students. It is my hope that Congress answers the President's 
call for increased investments at the Federal level that will help our 
schools continue to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic, address long-
standing inequities that have existed in our school systems, and 
elevate our country's education system to lead the world. Our task is 
to reimagine and strengthen our entire system of education, from pre-
kindergarten through adult education. As we recover from the crisis, 
let us focus on the opportunities to do just that.
    Last summer traveling in Michigan, I met a woman named Ruth who is 
a middle-aged woman working just to make ends meet. She had a health 
issue that forced her to go to the hospital during the pandemic, which 
opened her eyes to a future in the healthcare field. As she told me, 
``After seeing what our country is going through, I want to live the 
rest of my life helping others who are going through health issues.'' 
Using a Pell Grant, she is returning to school to be a nurse 
practitioner. My point is that it is never too late to go back to 
school, and it is never too late the seize the opportunities ahead and 
we can make it easier for learners of all ages like Ruth to reignite 
their passions and discover new ones.
                      fy 2022 congressional action
    I want to begin by thanking the Members of the Committee who worked 
to provide a fiscal year 2022 appropriations bill. That bipartisan 
funding package delivers for our students and families by making 
essential investments in our schools and building on a cornerstone of 
the Biden-Harris Administration--keeping equity at the center of all we 
do. This bill includes an important commitment, shared by President 
Biden, to significantly increase funding for the Title I program by 
providing $17.5 billion in funding, a $1 billion increase. This is the 
largest increase for Title I in over a decade and an important first 
step that we look forward to working with you to build upon. The 
bipartisan package makes important strides to meet the needs of the 
whole child, to support effective teaching and learning, and to 
strengthen and diversify the educator pipeline. The 2022 appropriations 
bill also makes college more affordable by increasing the maximum Pell 
Grant by $400, which is a down payment on the President's call to 
double Pell and will help more students pursue an education or training 
beyond high school. The President's 2023 Budget Request builds upon 
this legislation by increasing investments in our schools with high-
poverty rates; helping meet the needs of students with disabilities and 
multilingual learners; and expanding access to postsecondary education 
and increasing college completion.
    There is one technical detail that I would like the Members of this 
Committee to keep in mind when reviewing our fiscal year 2023 Budget 
Request. Due to the timing of the passage of the FY 2022 appropriations 
legislation, the baseline for our fiscal year 2023 request levels was 
the fiscal year 2021 enacted level and does not reflect final fiscal 
year 2022 appropriations action. A comparison of our request with 
actual fiscal year 2022 levels could suggest that we are proposing a 
number of decreases for fiscal year 2023, when that is not the case. On 
the contrary, our goal is to maintain and build on these critical 
investments. The Administration is excited about the support of 
Congress and the many increases provided to Department of Education 
funding in FY 2022. We look forward to working with Congress to provide 
technical assistance during upcoming FY 2023 appropriations action. The 
numbers I will be citing in my testimony today will mostly reflect 
differences between the fiscal year 2022 appropriation and our request.
                 department of education funding levels
    The President's fiscal year 2023 request calls for a significant 
increase in Federal support for education from birth through college 
and career. The proposed discretionary request is $88.3 billion for 
Department of Education programs, an increase of almost $12 billion 
over the fiscal year 2022 enacted level. The 2023 Budget would make 
historic investments in the Nation's future prosperity by prioritizing 
funding for five core themes that are at the heart of this 
Administration's vision for education in America: (1) Supporting 
Students Through Pandemic Response and Recovery Over the Long Term; (2) 
Boldly Addressing Opportunity and Achievement Gaps; (3) Supporting a 
Talented and Diverse Educator Workforce; (4) Making Higher Education 
Inclusive and Affordable; and (5) Building Pathways Through 
Postsecondary Education that Lead to Successful Careers.
       supporting students through pandemic response and recovery
    Even with 99 percent of schools open for full-time, in-person 
learning, many students continue to be affected by the pandemic. We 
know that in our communities most impacted by COVID, their recovery 
could take many years. Disruptions caused by the COVID-19 pandemic 
continue to take a toll on the academic success, and physical, social, 
emotional, and mental health of students. It has also taken a toll on 
the well-being of our educators and school staff.
    Responding to these needs can often be a challenge for many 
schools. For example, there continues to be a critical gap, that 
existed prior to and was only made worse by the pandemic, between the 
number of school-based health service providers needed and the number 
of such providers currently serving in our schools, particularly in 
school districts and schools with high rates of poverty. This is why 
the Budget includes a $1 billion investment to bridge that gap through 
the School-Based Health Professionals program, both by building the 
pipeline of such professionals and by providing the dedicated funding 
needed to hire them. We appreciate the additional $90 million Congress 
provided to support similar activities in the FY 2022 legislation, and 
we are committed to building on this investment as more is still 
needed. The Administration estimates that our requested funding, 
together with State and local matching funds, would allow LEAs to hire 
an additional 21,000 school counselors, nurses, social workers, and 
school psychologists.
    Our request further supports students through pandemic response and 
recovery by including $468 million to dramatically expand the Full-
Service Community Schools (FSCS) program. A 2020 study from the Rand 
Corporation, Illustrating the Promise of Community Schools: An 
Assessment of the Impact of the New York City Community Schools 
Initiative, found that community schools in New York City had a 
positive impact on student attendance, on-time grade progression, high 
school graduation rates, disciplinary incidents for elementary and 
middle school students, math achievement, credit accumulation for high 
school students, shared responsibility for student success at 
elementary and middle schools, and students' sense of connectedness to 
adults and peers for elementary and middle school students. Additional 
studies have found similar outcomes for evidence-based approaches to 
Full-Service Community Schools. Our request would allow the Full-
Service Community Schools program to create an estimated 800 new 
community schools serving up to 2.4 million additional students, family 
members, and community members in districts that want to advance this 
approach.
    For districts that may not have the capacity to implement the 
broader community schools approach supported by FSCS, this request also 
includes $25 million for the provision of integrated student supports 
(ISS), one of the pillars of evidence-based approaches to community 
schools. ISS grants would help provide access to services that meet the 
social, emotional, mental and physical health, and academic needs of 
students and families through cross-agency efforts and partnerships 
between districts and with community-based organizations.
           boldly addressing opportunity and achievement gaps
    Even before the pandemic, too many elementary and secondary school 
students faced daunting barriers to receiving a high-quality education. 
This Budget seeks to remove those barriers by providing the resources 
needed so that every student can be successful. Core to that effort is 
Title I, which helps schools provide students from low-income 
communities the learning opportunities and supports they need to 
succeed. This Budget boosts funding for Title I by $19 billion over 
fiscal year 2022 through a mix of discretionary and mandatory funding. 
This substantial new support for the program, which serves 25 million 
students in nearly 90 percent of school districts across the Nation, 
would be a major step toward fulfilling the President's commitment to 
addressing long-standing funding disparities between under-resourced 
schools--which disproportionately serve students of color--and their 
wealthier counterparts. The Budget also includes a first-time $30 
million investment to improve education and outcomes for children and 
youth in foster care, one of our most vulnerable populations.
    The President and I are committed to ensuring that children and 
youth with disabilities receive the services and support they need to 
thrive in school and graduate ready for college and career. I am very 
excited that our request provides an additional $3.3 billion over 2021 
enacted levels--which would be the largest two-year increase ever 
outside of the American Rescue Plan--for Individuals with Disabilities 
Education Act (IDEA) Grants to States, with a total of $16.3 billion to 
support special education and related services for students in grades 
Pre-K through 12. The Budget also nearly doubles funding to $932 
million for IDEA Part C grants, which support early intervention 
services for infants and families with disabilities that have a proven 
record of improving academic and developmental outcomes. The increased 
funding would support States in implementing critical reforms to expand 
their enrollment of underserved children, including children of color, 
children from low-income backgrounds and children living in rural 
areas. The increase for Part C includes $200 million to expand and 
streamline enrollment of children at risk of developing disabilities, 
which would help mitigate the need for more extensive services later in 
childhood and further expand access to the program for underserved 
children. In addition, our request includes a sizeable increase for the 
Preschool Grants program. More than 80 percent of children 
participating in the Preschool Grants program have demonstrated 
significant improvement in academic, behavioral and social and 
emotional outcomes, which is consistent with numerous studies that have 
found that the provision of special education and related services for 
preschool-aged children significantly improved outcomes in these areas.
    Recent results from the National Assessment of Educational Progress 
continue to show significant achievement gaps remain between English 
Learners and their peers. This is directly tied to the educational 
opportunities and resources that are available to support their 
success.
    These barriers to a high-quality education are especially pressing, 
as many states and school districts have experienced an increase in 
arrivals of immigrant children, including refugees from countries 
impacted by war. Accordingly, this Budget includes a significant 
increase of $244 million to the English Language Acquisition grants 
program, for a total fiscal year 2023 funding level of $1.1 billion. 
Further, the increased investment proposed for fiscal year 2023 would 
greatly strengthen the Department's capacity to work with its State and 
local partners to elevate meeting the needs of English learners in the 
context of encouraging multilingualism as a necessary skill for success 
in our globally competitive economy.
          supporting a talented and diverse educator workforce
    The Administration is committed to not only honoring educators but 
making sure they are treated with the respect and the dignity they 
deserve. In addition to promoting supportive working conditions and 
welcoming educators' voices as critical partners to improve education, 
we must make sure education jobs are ones that people from all 
backgrounds want to pursue.For decades, the education sector has faced 
shortages in critical staffing areas, such as special education and 
bilingual education, disproportionately impacting students of color and 
students from low-income backgrounds. The COVID-19 pandemic and tight 
labor market have made shortages worse. These shortages negatively 
impact the education students receive and continue to fall hardest on 
students in underserved communities. For example, teacher shortages in 
areas such as STEM, Career and Technical Education, and advanced 
placement and dual enrollment/early college programs can result in 
these high-quality pathways and opportunities being out of reach for 
students. In addition to comprehensive investments across several 
programs to support a diverse and well-prepared pipeline of educators, 
the Budget includes $514 million for the Education Innovation and 
Research program, including $350 million focused on identifying and 
scaling models that improve recruitment and retention of staff in 
education.
    These funds would support innovative efforts to improve resources 
and support for educators, provide teacher access to leadership 
opportunities that improve teacher recruitment and retention, and 
expand the impact of great teachers within and beyond their classrooms.
    Other key investments include $132 million for Teacher Quality 
Partnership grants to effectively prepare aspiring teachers by 
supporting pathways into the profession such as high-quality teacher 
residencies and Grow Your Own programs, that improve educator 
diversity, effectiveness, and retention; $250 million for IDEA, Part D, 
to support the pipeline of special education teachers and personnel; 
and $20 million for Augustus Hawkins Centers of Excellence to support 
teacher preparation programs at Historically Black Colleges and 
Universities (HBCUs), Tribally-Controlled College and Universities 
(TCCUs), and minority-serving institutions (MSIs). We are incredibly 
appreciative that fiscal year 2022 appropriations provided first time 
funding for the Augustus Hawkins program to support teacher preparation 
programs at these institutions. Recognizing that school leaders are 
second only to classroom teachers among school factors that affect 
student learning, our request includes $40 million in funding for the 
reauthorized School Leader Recruitment and Support program to improve 
the recruitment, preparation, placement, support, and retention of 
effective principals and other school leaders in underserved schools.
            making higher education inclusive and affordable
    Too many students today are deciding that a postsecondary education 
is out of reach. That is unacceptable. To make higher education more 
inclusive and affordable, the Budget increases the maximum Pell Grant 
by $1,775 over the 2022-2023 award year through a mix of discretionary 
and mandatory funding, helping an estimated 6.7 million students from 
low- and middle-income backgrounds overcome financial barriers. This 
historic increase is one piece of the Budget's comprehensive proposal 
to double the maximum Pell Grant by 2029. The Administration continues 
to support expanding federal student aid, including Pell Grant 
eligibility, to students who are Deferred Action for Childhood 
recipients--commonly known as DREAMers--and we are committed to working 
with Congress to advance this goal.
    Any approach we take to postsecondary education must put students 
and families first.
    Too many people currently see our student aid delivery system as 
broken, with a few, but notable, bad actors taking advantage of 
students looking to get ahead and student aid systems that have not 
kept pace with today's demands. Our request will improve the services 
we provide students and families to help them pay for college through a 
historic investment in Student Aid Administration. We are requesting 
$2.65 billion to administer the Federal student aid programs in fiscal 
year 2023, an increase of $620 million over fiscal year 2022 enacted. 
Specifically, the increase will allow us to implement customer service 
and accountability improvements to student loan servicing and ensure 
the successful transition from the current short-term loan servicing 
contracts to a more stable long-term servicing environment. The 
increase is also critical to ensure full implementation of the FAFSAr 
Simplification Act for the 2024-25 award year.
    Of course, access to higher education is just one piece of the 
puzzle. It is also critical to help students obtain the support they 
need to be successful, and to provide institutions with resources to 
ensure their students' success. Just as so many students do not seek 
education beyond high school, too many start but do not complete their 
postsecondary degree or certification. The President and I are 
committed to not only ensuring an education beyond high school is 
accessible and affordable, but that students are provided equitable 
access to resources and supports to persist and complete. The Budget 
supports strategies to improve the retention, transfer, and completion 
rates of students by creating a Retention and Completion Grant program 
in the Fund for the Improvement of Postsecondary Education. The Budget 
also promotes academic success by providing critical resources to 
support students' basic needs, including a $30 million increase to 
institutions providing affordable child care for student parents with 
low-incomes. The request includes significant increases for Federal 
TRIO programs and GEAR UP to expand services that promote access and 
completion in postsecondary education for underserved individuals. The 
Budget would also enhance institutional capacity at HBCUs, TCCUs, MSIs, 
and low-resourced institutions, including community colleges, by 
providing an increase of $703 million over the 2022 enacted level. This 
funding includes a $450 million initiative to expand research and 
development infrastructure at four-year HBCUs, TCCUs, and MSIs.
    building pathways through postsecondary education that lead to 
                           successful careers
    While increased funding for student aid and higher education is 
vitally important, the key to access and affordability really begins 
before any student applies to college. It begins in high school and 
even earlier. This is why the President's Request would help create 
stronger college and career pathways between our Pre-k through grade 12 
systems, our two- and four-year colleges and universities, and our 
workforce partners. We are requesting $200 million for a new Career-
Connected High Schools Initiative within Career and Technical Education 
National Programs, to provide competitive grants that support 
partnerships between local educational agencies, institutions of higher 
education (including community colleges), and employers to support 
early enrollment in postsecondary and career-connected coursework; 
work-based learning opportunities; and academic and career-connected 
instruction across the last two years of high school and the first two 
years of postsecondary education. Our request also supports adult 
learners through a College Bridge Initiative, funded through Adult 
Education National Leadership Activities, and new grants to support 
disconnected youth without a high school diploma.
                    enforcement of civil rights laws
    Finally, we would prioritize efforts to enforce the Nation's civil 
rights laws, as they relate to education, through a 19 percent increase 
for the Office for Civil Rights to protect students, providing a total 
of $161 million to advance equity in educational opportunity and 
delivery at Pre-K through 12 schools and at institutions of higher 
education.
                            closing remarks
    This is our moment to truly reimagine education so that all 
students can succeed. Thank you again for this opportunity to share 
more about the President's plan to invest in students of all ages--like 
Ruth from Michigan--and the schools and institutions that serve them. 
As I and the President have said before, our Budget is a reflection of 
our values and I look forward to working with you to advance this 
historic Budget request. I am committed to learning more about your 
individual interests and priorities related to Department of Education 
programs and activities and working collaboratively with each of you, 
to the greatest extent possible, to help improve educational 
opportunities and outcomes for all students.
    Thank you, and I will do my best to respond to any questions you 
may have.
                                 ______
                                 
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Now we will go to member 
questions, and I would like to first recognize the gentleman 
from Arizona, Mr. Grijalva.
    Mr. Grijalva. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank 
you, Mr. Secretary for being with us. I appreciated your 
comments and associate myself with your opening comments 
regarding the tragedy that has unfolded, and the need for us to 
do something to protect children and protect their well-being 
in the sanctity of a school, and I appreciate those comments.
    I want to ask just a couple of general questions on two 
topics. One is adult education. Secretary, you know, adult 
education plays a critical role in helping immigrants, and 
refugees, and other families gain English literacy, so that 
those skills are necessary to fully participate in their 
schools and their kid's education.
    The Department--what are we doing in the budget, and to 
ensure that funding for adult education and literacy programs 
are available?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman Grijalva. I 
certainly agree that when we talk about reimaging education, we 
really need to make sure we are investing and providing 
opportunities for our adults that want to go back to school or 
want to finish their program. We ask in our proposal for a 50 
million dollar increase to support competitive grants to do 
just that: a college bridge for folks who do not have a high 
school degree or equivalency.
    It is important that we provide pathways for all Americans 
to give back into education, and our adult education population 
is critical if we are going to meet the demand that is out 
there for these careers that exist now. We need our adult 
education population to be prepared to be successful. Our 
budget does ask for that. There is also 10 million dollars for 
a new initiative for disconnected youth to reengage them in 
school.
    We know that earning potential is greater when completion 
happens in high school, but also in college, so we do have a 
robust plan for engaging our adult learners.
    Mr. Grijalva. The loss of classroom teachers, particularly 
aggravated even more so with the pandemic, it is leaving gaping 
holes. In Arizona, 31 percent of the teaching positions at the 
beginning were gone and became vacant. 47 percent, almost 48 
percent of those people filling it--those positions lack basic 
qualifications.
    If one in three teachers leave our education system, it 
will take years to recover. I am excited about the infusion of 
funding into that area to retain teachers. Can you elaborate on 
that point if you do not mind, sir?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you. We are very close to a 
crisis, Congressman, with regard to the shortage of teachers 
across our country. I know in Arizona this is the case when I 
visited and talked about. Across the country we are seeing 
this. We believe we need to invest now and act now to promote 
programs that provide through lines between high school 
students, to colleges, and back into the classrooms for 
students.
    We need to invest in this, and we put into our proposal 350 
million dollars to make sure we are recruiting and retaining 
teachers, lifting up programs in states like Arizona that are 
aiming to increase the number of qualified teachers, and that 
is critical, too--qualified teachers in our classrooms.
    We saw what happened in January when many of our schools 
had to close due to the Omicron surge, and teachers were in 
quarantine. It impacts the entire community when parents have 
to learn two, 3 days before that schools are going to be closed 
for a week. I do not want to go there.
    In our proposal we have funds intending to create grow your 
own programs and to lift up programs that are aiming to recruit 
teachers. This investment will go a long way to improving 
education across the country.
    Mr. Grijalva. Just a general, if I may Mr. Chairman, I 
think I just want to compliment the Secretary, inheriting a 
department that basically needed in many instances, rebuilding 
and renewal. I appreciate the comprehensive approach in the 
budget, particularly around Title I, and Justice 40 initiatives 
that are within it, and how that is going to be monitored. 
Yesterday I went to a graduation of my grandson from fifth 
grade to middle school, and I saw all those kids, they are all 
the same age as the kids that died and were slaughtered in 
Uvalde.
    I saw them, and I saw my grandson there, and I saw their 
teachers giving them out their certificates. No different from 
the teachers that were murdered in Uvalde. I think we all can 
relate to that, and I hope this budget is respected for what it 
is trying to do, to rebuild our public infrastructure, the most 
important one we have, which is educating our kids. With that I 
yield back, sir.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Next, we will hear from our 
distinguished Ranking Member of the full committee, Dr. Foxx.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, 
FSA, an office you are ultimately responsible for overseeing 
allowed thousands of individuals' and families' information be 
shared with Facebook, shared without any disclosure to 
families, and apparently unknown to the department.
    To add to the concern, it is fairly evident that your staff 
is either hiding the extent of the information shared, or 
perhaps worse, do not even know. We have been seeking answers 
about this incident, but are now being told the earliest we 
could hear about the extent of this problem is June 3d.
    Enough is enough, Mr. Secretary. This is a concern to many 
families and could impede students from applying for assistance 
if they do not trust the system or agency they have to provide 
sensitive information to. We have sent an invitation to the COO 
Cordray to appear at a roundtable to discuss the issue. Will 
you commit to his attendance?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Ranking Member, for that. Let 
me tell you I share with you the importance of this department.
    Ms. Foxx. I just need a yes or no. I just need a yes or no.
    Secretary Cardona. This is not just a yes or no, Dr. Foxx. 
Yes, we are going to be very transparent with you and everyone 
else, and my staff did provide an update last week. Let me just 
share. You are absolutely right. In the last administration 
information was shared that was not supposed to.
    When we learned, the moment we learned about this we put an 
end to it, and we started an investigation to make sure we 
found out why that happened during the last administration, and 
we are being very transparent. As you mentioned, we are going 
to be having public information on that shared with you as soon 
as possible, and we are going to share I think as early as next 
week with you all what we are finding.
    We did provide an update last week because this is 
important to us, but rest assured, the moment we found out 
about this we put an end to it.
    Ms. Foxx. Okay. Well, I have several other questions, so I 
need to get through them. Last time you testified before this 
committee I asked if you and your staff would respond 
``thoroughly and quickly'' to oversight requests by this 
committee, to which you answered a resounding yes.
    Additionally, your Undersecretary sat in the witness chair 
and assured all of us that we would get all unredacted reports 
and relevant documents by the end of December 2021. To date we 
have not received the complete, validated, and unredacted loan 
valuation reports, reports that you previously said you stand 
by.
    These reports have found that the loan program was 435 
billion dollars in the red, even before the radical policies 
your department has enacted. Thankfully, despite your 
department's continued attempts to stonewall Congress and GAO, 
it seems we may finally get some answers. GAO has been 
persistent in looking at the issue closely to show the American 
people exactly what a catastrophe the loan program has become 
as a result of democrat policies.
    Mr. Secretary, simply put, you have fallen short of your 
promises when you were sitting here last year. However, I want 
to give you another chance to make good on your word. Will you 
confirm today that you will provide all documentation related 
to loan valuation reports my office has requested by next week, 
yes or no?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Dr. Foxx. Yes, we are 
complying with the numerous requests, and we are working with 
GAO, and we are going to continue to share information as we 
have it.
    Ms. Foxx. Will you provide all requested documents, data 
and information with respect to the limited PSLF and IDR 
waivers, Operation Fresh Start, and the repayment paused by the 
end of next week, yes or no?
    Secretary Cardona. We will comply with requests as they 
come in, knowing that it does take time to get information. 
There are numerous requests, and we want to be thorough, and 
make sure we provide accurate information.
    Ms. Foxx. Mr. Secretary, before I yield back, I have heard 
the department has finalized plans for Operation Fresh Start, 
which is expected to be rolled out soon. If what I have heard 
is true, I am deeply concerned. Your actions will have 
significant implications on every person who has, or is seeking 
to purchase a home, a car, jump start a business, and access 
credit for things they otherwise would not be able to afford.
    This would not only be detrimental to everyday Americans 
looking to move up the economic ladder, but also has the 
potential to cause permanent damage to the entire U.S. economy. 
Mr. Secretary, have you or others at the department been made 
aware of concerns that this operation will have on American 
access to credit, such as mortgages, automobiles, and other 
consumer and business loan products? Again, I am almost out of 
time, I need a yes or no.
    Secretary Cardona. We are proud of the Fresh Start program 
giving Americans another opportunity.
    Ms. Foxx. Yes or no, yes or no, Mr. Secretary.
    Secretary Cardona. We are aware of the benefits that it 
provides for Americans who are struggling right now in default, 
giving them a fresh start.
    Ms. Foxx. Have you been told about the problems with the 
program?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, we have had--I have had briefings 
shared about the program, and----
    Ms. Foxx. Is the department planning to announce or 
implement the program in the coming weeks and months.
    Secretary Cardona. Again, the Fresh Start program provides 
opportunity for those that are in default to start fresh again, 
so that they can continue. I will remind you that borrowers 
that are in default is worse for the economy. Giving them a 
fresh start is an opportunity for them to get the supports that 
they need, so that they can pay their loans.
    Ms. Foxx. The average taxpayer is on the hook for what they 
do not pay back, and many of them do not have the same 
opportunities you are providing these people. With that Mr. 
Chairman, I yield back, even though I have more questions, 
thank you.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has 
expired. Next, we will hear from the gentleman from the 
Secretary's home State, the gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. 
Courtney.
    Mr. Courtney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize for my 
voice, Mr. Secretary, the pollen count in Connecticut is very 
high today. First of all, I want to thank you for your opening 
remarks. You and I and Congresswoman Hayes live in a State that 
in 2012 lived through horrible precedent with Sandy Hook.
    I do think you know you are calling for action. There is I 
think an example what happened in 2013 in the way where we 
passed a comprehensive package of gun violence prevention, 
universal background checks, prospective ban on assault 
weapons, red flag statues, and a banning of bump stocks. Also, 
de-weaponizing domestic violence situations.
    That was done on a bipartisan basis, and it showed that, 
you know, when people tried to absorb what happened here, they 
did say enough is enough, and it is time to roll up our sleeves 
and get serious, and hopefully we will see that happen in the 
wake of Uvalde. On page 2 of your testimony, Mr. Secretary, you 
pointed out that the timing of the budget created a little bit 
of a snafu in terms of some of the funding level requests, and 
I would like to focus on two of those really quickly.
    One is on the Career and Technical Education State grants, 
which again you and I visited Grasso Tech in Groton last 
January and saw the welding program, but also some of the other 
great CT&E programs that were going on there, you are a 
graduate. Fiscal Year 2022 budget gave a very healthy increase 
to the State grants, and the budget that came over from the 
administration actually is below the enacted level from Fiscal 
Year 2022, and the same is true of impact aid, which provided 
support for host military communities with children whose 
parents served in the military service.
    I am wondering again if you would just clarify that the 
department actually will work with us to sort of recover from 
again the issue that was caused by the delay?
    Secretary Cardona. Certainly, and you know I share your 
passion for career technical education, and what promise it 
provides. I remember visiting Groton with you and seeing that 
center where not only are high school students, but the adults 
that wanted to go in and learn a skill, and have access to a 
higher paying job was made available to them.
    That and impacting, I appreciate your advocacy for the 
important impact data that's there. What ended up happening, 
and why those totals were low was because we are thankful for 
the Omnibus package, and the funding there. Our Fiscal Year 
2023 proposal was due before the Omnibus was done.
    We sent in a proposal using 21 numbers, and the 22 package 
came out after our proposals came in. We totally support the 
funding for that. In fact, we really believe a big part of the 
work moving forward at the Department of Education is to really 
engage in career connected high schools and making sure that 
the throughlines between our high schools, our 2-year schools, 
and our workforce partners, our 4-year schools, are tighter 
across the country.
    There is so much potential there. I know you support that 
as do we at the Department of Education. Thank you for giving 
me a chance to speak on that.
    Mr. Courtney. Well, I appreciate it. Regarding PSLF, again 
I would just remind my colleagues that there was a bipartisan 
bill that was passed in 2007. It is targeted. It is targeted to 
people who wear the uniform of our country, teachers, cops, 
firemen, fire fighters, people in the nonprofit sector.
    The prior administration was granting less than I think 3 
percent of PSLF applications, and you have been untangling that 
you know wretched State of affairs. I just want to thank you 
because your department joined my office for a webinar to sort 
of walk through the waiver program in terms of just how people 
can connect to it.
    It has gotten rave reviews. I encourage my colleagues to 
take advantage of your staff, who are doing a great job of 
breaking it down to simple terms, and again is that going to be 
part of your effort to again increase people's awareness in 
this opportunity?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely. When Congresswoman Foxx said 
that the system was broken, it is broken. We came in and 
inherited a system for teachers, nurses, all these people we 
should be thanking during the pandemic, 98 percent of them were 
denied. We are really proud of the work we have done in 1 year 
to provide 127,000 borrowers loan relief.
    These are the teachers, the nurses, those who are public 
servants. Yes, we are going to continue to move forward on 
this. As you said, it was a bipartisan bill. It was not being 
implemented well, and we are fixing that, and we are proud of 
that.
    Mr. Courtney. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. We are proceeding by seniority. 
The next one in seniority on the minority side that I see on 
the screen is the gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Walberg.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Chairman. I thank the Secretary for 
being here with us today, and I certainly would share the 
concerns of the horrific event that took place in Uvalde. It 
ought to be a wakeup call for us, and there are many things 
that we certainly can consider.
    I hope we would not neglect some of the other things. I am 
reminded of that wonderful statement in the Northwest Ordinance 
that said religion, morality, knowledge, being necessary to 
good government, and the happiness of mankind. Schools, and the 
means of education shall forever be encouraged.
    We want to encourage schools in the means of education, but 
religion and morality have to be there as well. When you see 
horrific things like this take place, it has to be all hands 
on-deck. In our homes, in our schools, in our churches, and we 
ought to be working together, and we did that for most of the 
history of this country.
    We supplemented and instilled all sorts of those key 
values, and I hope we could coalesce again around those things 
and produce stability in our society again, especially with our 
young kids, that marriage and family would be stable. That 
authority that comes from law enforcement would be stable in 
our lives, that we could work together in those areas, and I 
certainly want to be part of that solution in promoting things 
that are timeless and can move us forward.
    Not walking away from those just because it is the new 
trend in society to say your truth is what you ought to 
determine. We know that that will not work. There is truth, and 
we need to follow that. Having said that, let me move on with 
questions for this hour, and Secretary Cardona, I wanted to 
followup on a topic Ranking Member Foxx raised with you.
    Late last month the markup reported that Department of 
Education used Facebook's Meta pixel and the analytical code to 
collect data from students and parents, filling out the free 
application for student aid, FASFA, and shared that data with 
Facebook.
    The data included names, phone numbers, email addresses and 
zip codes. When initially asked about the tracking the 
department denied it occurred, only to backtrack that statement 
saying it was part of an ``advertising campaign.'' However, 
when asked for a briefing on the situation the department told 
this committee and the Senate HELP Committee that it would need 
to do more research before it could brief members.
    The question I have is that because of the lack of 
transparency to Congress, and parents and students, which is 
alarming, that Dr. Foxx asked many questions regarding the 
depth of this data sharing, but I would like to followup on her 
questions and ask Mr. Secretary do you believe parents and 
students have the right to protect their privacy when filling 
out the government's forms?
    Secretary Cardona. Absolutely, Congressman.
    Mr. Walberg. Well, just this week the Washington Post ran 
an article highlighting that remote learning has led to an 
unfathomable amount of data on children being shared online. 
From the article, and I quote, ``Millions of children have 
their online behaviors and personal information tracked by the 
apps and websites they use for school during the pandemic.''
    The data on students was sent to other companies, ad 
companies, and surprise Facebook, and all of this was done with 
vague disclosures, if any at all, in most cases. Mr. Secretary, 
do you share my alarm with reporting on this issue?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman. I do. I will be 
very frank with you, when I worked in the district, I was an 
Assistant Superintendent, one of the things that we did was 
ensure that as we are evolving our delivery of education, which 
includes online learning, that we were very careful, and very 
open with parents.
    It is critical that parents know how information is being 
used. We learned that Facebook----
    Mr. Walberg. Let me just make sure I understand. You agree 
then, Mr. Secretary, that we need to empower parents. We need 
to communicate with them in a transparent way, and regardless 
of who is asking for the information, they ought to be 
protected from undue access that can be used for purposes other 
than what they were intended.
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, before I was Secretary, I am a 
father. I absolutely agree that parents should have say, and 
they should have whatever information is being shared. They 
should know about it.
    Mr. Walberg. Well, I applaud that, and I certainly think 
that is where we can work together to tighten it down, to give 
security where it can be given, and work with parents first and 
foremost, so that they know what is involved, and know what is 
coming at their kids. I thank you, and I appreciate your 
response. I yield back.
    Secretary Cardona. Thanks.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. I want to remind members that 
insofar as this is a full committee meeting, and we have a lot 
of members, to try to keep an eye on the clock, so I thank the 
gentleman from Michigan for yielding back right at about 5 
minutes. The gentleman from the Northern Mariana Islands, Mr. 
Sablan, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Sablan. Thank you, thank you very much Chairman Scott, 
and Mr. Secretary, good morning and welcome. I want to first 
thank you for, and President Biden, for agreeing to my request 
to include 24 million dollars for supplemental educations 
grants for the Marshall Islands and the Federated States of 
Micronesia. It is important that we, the United States, keep 
its commitments to the Freely Associated States, so thank you.
    The President's fiscal 23 budget calls for an increase in K 
to 12 education investments, including a proposal to more than 
doubled Title I-A funds, and significantly invest in health 
services, and wrap around supports for students and families. 
Can you tell us about the importance of these investments, even 
after the significant investments Congress has made in K to 12 
education through the CARES Act, the CRRS Act of 2021, and the 
American Rescue Plan Act?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman Sablan. Yes, 
prior to the pandemic our country had tremendous disparities in 
access and in outcomes for students, depending on where you are 
in the country, and what access you had to high-quality 
education. Sadly, the pandemic made them worse.
    Title I to me is the best tool we have to level the playing 
field, so that all children across the country have access to 
high-quality education, qualified teachers, and pathways to 
higher education. These programs that are funded through Title 
I ultimately result in reading teachers, in librarians, in 
additional tutoring, after school programming, so that our 
students have the access to the opportunities that might have 
been missed during the pandemic.
    We believe that it is incumbent upon us to make sure that 
all children have a quality education, and Title I program does 
focus on making sure it is leveling the plank.
    Mr. Sablan. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Also, a 
recent report from the GAO found that nearly 1 million students 
never showed up for class in 2021, 2020, 2021 school year. A 
variety of obstacles, reasons, kept students from their 
education, including limited or no adult assistance at home, 
competing demands on their time, such as providing care to a 
family member during the COVID-19 pandemic.
    This is the reason why democrats passed the largest single 
Federal investment in K to 12 education in U.S. history in the 
American Rescue Plan, to help communities and school districts 
return to in-person learning and to help students with their 
educational, social and emotional needs.
    Secretary Cardona, can you please share the department's 
plans for assisting schools and re-engaging disconnected 
students, and making up for lost time in the classroom?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, yes, I can. There is short-
term and there is long-term. Short-term, as you mentioned, the 
American Rescue Plan provided funds where districts can use the 
money to reengage families. I have seen so many creative uses 
of the American Rescue Plan dollars.
    In Nevada, they created a team of parent liaisons that went 
out into the community to help families reengage. In many cases 
these students were also dealing with housing insecurity and 
food insecurity. The American Rescue Plan dollars helped 
reengage those students into the school and provide support for 
those students.
    That is some of the short-term strategies that I have seen, 
and states are using the American Rescue Plan dollars to 
reengage students. Long-term solutions. We are asking in our 
proposal for full-service community schools. Those schools that 
did a better job reengaging students were the schools that had 
a health center located there, that had access to food 
pantries, for the students who were hungry, that had access to 
technology tools, so students could be connected at home.
    Who had mental health support for students that were better 
developed than other schools. The short-term solution is 
ensuring American Rescue Plan dollars are available for this. 
Long-term solutions as investing in full-service community 
schools which we know help students stay engaged.
    Mr. Sablan. All right, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. 
Another topic relative to K12 education, I have a growing 
interest in learning why for example, Guam, and the U.S. Virgin 
Islands have been placed on high-risk for a decade or more, and 
we are going to find out, and understand why this program, why 
despite the effort that at least for Guam, they continue to be 
placed in this situation, but that's for another issue. Mr. 
Secretary, thank you very much for your time, and chairman I 
yield back time.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Perfect, right at 5 minutes. The 
gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Wilson.
    Mr. Wilson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Secretary thank 
you for being with us today. I am grateful for your service, 
and hey, my wife is a teacher, and so we have a great 
appreciation of the profession and our sons have only done well 
because of teachers who really gave them opportunities to learn 
math and science that they could not learn at home, so best 
wishes to our educators.
    With that in mind during COVID-19, charter schools used 
their flexibility and autonomy to meet the specific needs of 
their community, and over the first year of the pandemic, South 
Carolina saw seven new charter schools established as 
nationwide student enrollment grew.
    Mr. Secretary, what are you doing to highlight the 
importance of family choice of flexible education opportunities 
during this critical time?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that, Congressman Wilson, 
and thank your wife for me for her service to the profession. 
It is really important that parents have options, and what we 
have done is we are requesting the same funding, and not 
cutting any funding for that, and we are highlighting schools 
that are successful, including public charter schools who have 
done a good job engaging students and finding innovative ways 
to help students achieve.
    Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, and I need to brag about 
my wife again. She taught at an alternative school, so Mr. 
Secretary, you know these are giving young people a second 
chance, who really in the old days would have not had, and so 
it was so exciting to see these young people given one more 
chance, and many of them actually succeeded with extraordinary 
encouragement from educators.
    Mr. Secretary, I am also grateful that I led a letter from 
38 Members of Congress to the Committee on Appropriations 
requesting strong support for the charter schools programs, 
Fiscal Year 2023. I am concerned that the Federal charter 
schools program would receive level funding by the 
administration's budget when overall spending on education 
programs would increase over 40 percent.
    In South Carolina, 42 percent of the state's charter school 
students are participating in free and reduced lunch programs. 
What are your plans to increase the accessibility of charter 
schools for students and parents seeking this option?
    Secretary Cardona. Again, we are going to continue to 
support charter schools, and we know that they are eligible for 
grants, that while we did not cut funding, we know that the 
proposed increases would benefit charter schools as well. As I 
said before, you know, we want to make sure that we're 
providing options for families including high-quality public 
charter school which, you know, I can tell you from my 
experience in Connecticut, some of the schools that we 
highlighted when I was Commissioner, were charter schools, 
public charter schools that did exceptional work, getting high 
achievements for students.
    I do recognize, similar to what you mentioned with your 
wife, the alternative schools, there are different ways to 
reach students, and it is important that we embrace all of 
them.
    Mr. Wilson. Finally, this may have already been asked, but 
with the COVID funding, nearly 25 percent of the 190 billion 
dollars, only 25 percent has been used. Could this be used to 
address the security concerns that can be addressed to affect 
what occurred this week?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Yes, so we know the American 
Rescue Plan dollars were critical to get our schools safely 
reopened. The focus is providing mental health supports in our 
school, increasing that due to the impacts of the pandemic, and 
obviously, as you mentioned earlier, the importance of science 
and math, and making sure academically our students are caught 
up.
    Indirectly, crises like the one that we just experienced 
this week, if additional mental health supports are available, 
they can help the community. The funds are intended to help 
recover from the pandemic.
    Mr. Wilson. As a former President of a mental health 
association, I really appreciate your referencing this, and 
with that I yield back, and thank you Mr. Chairman. We 
appreciate Virginia.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you, and next we will hear from the 
gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Wilson.
    Ms. Wilson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member 
Foxx, and thank you Secretary Cardona for being here today. I 
want to remind you of your commitment to come to Miami to visit 
our phenomenal school district, thank you.
    Secretary Cardona, I spoke with an amazing young lady from 
Miami Gardens, who shared with me that she continues to see her 
student loan balances grow, even when she is making monthly 
payments due to interest capitalization and negative 
amortization.
    After that, my staff met with more than seven national 
organizations, including New America, who have written about 
this issue to discuss how we can fix our student loan repayment 
system for current and future borrowers dealing with this 
issue.
    In these discussions we learned just how dire this issue 
has become in our country. Like the young lady from Miami 
Gardens, and so many other Floridians, borrowers are 
experiencing extraordinary hardships because their monthly 
payments are not enough to cover accruing interest.
    As a result, their balances balloon, even as they make 
regular payments. Can you talk about how together Congress and 
the Department of Education can address this issue, and how do 
you propose we deal with this?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that, and I do remember 
the commitment to visit the 305 and see you there. I have heard 
stories in my visits of folks who are doing their best to pay, 
and as you mentioned, the interest rates just balloon, so they 
lose hope in that they are ever going to finish paying their 
loans. This is part of the problem that we are trying to fix at 
the root cause and make sure that Americans are not afraid of 
going to college because of the costs.
    The system is broken, and this is an example of one of the 
ways it is broken. As you know, the department does not--cannot 
set interest rates, right? That is something that is set by 
Congress, but what we are doing is making sure that we have 
regulations that have fair treatment of interest, including 
capitalization, so borrowers do not see their balances go out 
of control.
    We are also looking at the interest benefits of income 
driven repayment. I think this is the part that I really, I 
want to focus a little bit on, because income driven repayment 
in layman's terms say you do not pay more than you can afford, 
and I think many times people are afraid of going to college 
because they are getting these bills, which are too high for 
them to consider buying a house, buying a car, or having 
families.
    We need to control that. It has gotten out of control, and 
we are working really hard with the authorities that we have to 
make it more accessible to students, but also make it more 
affordable. We would love to continue to work with you and 
others on Congress to see how we can fix that, so our borrowers 
do not have this issue anymore.
    Ms. Wilson. Just to sum it up, as the Subcommittee Chair of 
Higher Education and Workforce Innovation, I am going to be 
looking forward to working with you and Chairman Scott to 
deliver on these much-needed changes. We have to make changes. 
We cannot continue in this vein.
    Secretary Cardona, as you know all too well, the gun 
violence that is plaguing our schools and communities is just 
out of control. The citizens of this country have had enough of 
our thoughts and prayers; they deserve better. They deserve 
action. We are here today for policies, solutions, and actions. 
It is beyond time that spineless republican colleagues end the 
extramarital affair with the gun lobby and help us pass gun 
reform in this country.
    Instead, they offer senseless policies that do not address 
the gun violence epidemic our communities are facing. Just 
yesterday they were calling for arming teachers and resource 
officers. Mr. Secretary, like you, as a former school principal 
and teacher, we know that is not the answer. What does the 
department need from Congress to ensure that when kids pick up 
their pencils and take out their books, it will not be their 
last time doing so?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congresswoman. I will tell 
you I was a school principal during the Sandy Hook massacre, 
and the impact that that had on our community. I cannot put it 
into words. Educators go to school to work, to help children, 
socially, academically. We need to make sure that, No. 1, our 
professions are respected, and the solution of arming teachers 
in my opinion is further disrespect to a profession that is 
already beleaguered and not feeling the support of so many 
folks. We need to make sure we are empowering our teachers to 
be successful at teaching our children, and we need to work 
together.
    I think what Americans want to see is collaboration and 
bipartisan working together to do action. As you said, thoughts 
and prayers are not enough anymore. We need to stop that; we 
need to get to work. Americans are looking to us for answers, 
and we must deliver.
    Ms. Wilson. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Next, we will hear from the 
gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Grothman.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. I had some questions prepared, but 
I am going to ask you one a little bit that was not in the 
original materials. The Chairman started off by talking about 
disciplinary differences in school, kind of implying there was 
a racial component, and I always think that that is an 
interesting statistic, but you know, we are not going to change 
people's race.
    I sometimes wonder do you collect any statistics on family 
structure, background of kids, you know, those subject to 
discipline, those that are not? I know so many wonderful 
children raised in all sorts of different backgrounds, but I 
wonder are you making any effort to collect that information?
    Secretary Cardona. I know that the information that we 
collect from the Office of Civil Rights, that civil rights data 
collection, is something that we have done last year, and we 
are doing this year to get more information on 
disproportionality. I could not tell you off the top of my head 
now if it has background information that is required of 
students to fill out on that. I would imagine that it is does 
not.
    Mr. Grothman. Why do you not do that, because maybe we 
would learn something, okay? Why do we not request--you know 
there is a famous football player who recently toured a prison, 
obviously discipline on an entirely different level, but he 
talked about you know disproportionately, way 
disproportionately, kids in there without a father. Why not 
collect that information, and maybe we will learn something 
that might not be that politically correct, but maybe we could 
do something to kind of get America back on the straight and 
narrow?
    Next question, and this is kind of along with my good buddy 
Congressman Courtney, why with all these big spending bills 
have we not put something in there saying that you could 
refinance the government's student loans? Lower the interest 
rate that way. There are several democrat Congressman that are 
out there pushing it. I push it.
    Is there any reason why that is not in any of your big 
proposals?
    Secretary Cardona. I am happy to have my team reach out to 
you and get more information on that. I think what we are 
trying to do Congressman, is really address some of the root 
causes of the issues, poor oversight, or misleading.
    Mr. Grothman. That is okay, then we will go on to the next 
one. I just got out of a Budget Committee, and we of course 
dealt with the huge inflation caused by excessive government 
spending. I see that your request here in the President's 
budget request for 2023, is a 20.9 percent increase over last 
year.
    I mean given that inflation, housing prices, gas prices, 
which teachers' pay, too, seems to me completely out of 
control, and I think there should be almost unanimous agreement 
that it is primarily out of control because of excessive 
spending. Do you feel that it is responsible for the President 
to, in his proposal, increase Department of Education funding 
by 20.9 percent?
    Secretary Cardona. First of all, the supply chain issues 
and the Russian War is contributing significantly. If anything, 
the proposals that our President put forward helped Americans 
with relief during a very difficult time. The reason for this 
request, sir, is because of decades of under-investment in 
education, and it is to me a symptom that we are seeing teacher 
shortages, and we are seeing challenges in education.
    This budget aims to address the years of underinvestment, 
the decades of underinvestment, and I am proud that the 
President----
    Mr. Grothman. Decades? You mean like the Obama and Clinton 
eras? Decades? Well, okay, we will give you another question. 
We have a problem that is becoming a budgetary problem, a 
problem in many other ways at our southern border. Your 
department has asked for an expansion of the Pell Grant program 
to include illegal immigrants.
    I always felt that was kind of bizarre because of course we 
are not including American citizens, and American middle-class 
kids continue to have to go deep in debt for their college 
education, but it has been the policy apparently of the Biden 
administration to push for free, or almost free college, for 
people who are here illegally.
    Do you still stand by that proposal? Or do you think it is 
something you might take off the table?
    Secretary Cardona. Congressman Grothman, I remember having 
a conversation with a teacher who was a Dreamer, who was 
working twice as hard so that she could help the students in 
her classroom. The Biden administration has been very clear 
that we do support ensuring Dreamers have an opportunity for 
Federal financial aid, including the Pell Grant.
    These are students who are making a big difference in their 
communities and----
    Mr. Grothman. Are kids born in America making a big 
difference in their communities?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, they are.
    Mr. Grothman. Why insult them by offering these programs to 
illegal immigrants, and not giving them to American citizens?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, we are proposing an increase in 
Pell Grants for all students, and we hope you can support it.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the few 
extra seconds.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Thank you, the gentleman yields 
back. The next one up is the gentlelady from Oregon, Ms. 
Bonamici.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Chairman Scott, and thank you so 
much Secretary Cardona for your service, for being here today 
to discuss some of the most important issues facing our 
Nation's students. I agree with your compelling words about the 
tragedy in Texas, and we can, and we must do more.
    Last year we discussed the student support and academic 
enrichment flexible block grant program under Title IV-A of The 
Every Student Succeeds Act. We know these grants enable states 
and local school districts to support a variety of 
opportunities and well-rounded education, including the arts, 
music, civics, computer science, second language.
    Title IV-A also supports safe and health students, 
including mental health and violence prevention, and the 
effective use of technology. Based on our earlier 
conversations, I know we agree about the importance of Title 
IV-A and that more must be done to make these opportunities 
available to all students.
    This year I, once again, led a bipartisan appropriations 
letter asking for 2 billion dollars for Title IV-A flexible 
block grants, which is significantly higher than the Fiscal 
Year 22 Omnibus and the President's previous proposed funding 
level.
    Mr. Secretary, I am concerned about the consequences of 
underfunding Title IV-A. What has the administration done in 
the past year to make sure that all students are getting a 
well-rounded education? Should Congress not provide funding for 
Title IV-A in line with the bipartisan letter beyond what was 
proposed in the Fiscal Year 23 budget? If not, how would that 
affect students?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. Thank you for that, and again this 
was an example of us putting a proposal in by the due date, but 
the budget from the previous year was not done. We are thankful 
for the fund and we agree, again, as an educator--and I 
remember my visit to Oregon where we saw programs where 
students had some enrichment with music, so the summer school 
was totally different, and that is why you had over 300 
students on campus.
    Yes, I do believe Title IV, as an educator, I know the 
impact of it. I know that it helps engage students. We fully 
support the proposal to increase Title IV-A, and again, as an 
educator, I have seen the impact of those programs like 
wraparound services for students, that keep students engaged, 
and keep them reaching at high levels.
    Ms. Bonamici. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, and 
thank you for visiting Oregon. It was a great visit, and I just 
want to again emphasize as someone who worked a lot on Every 
Student Succeeds Act, including on the Conference Committee, 
the importance of that well-rounded education piece, and what a 
difference it makes for students.
    I hope that we can meet in advance of the Fiscal Year 24 
budget to discuss the importance of this funding. Secretary 
Cardona, I applaud the fact that payments, interest accrual, 
and collections on federally held student loans have been 
paused since March 2020, to support borrowers as they navigate 
the pandemic.
    I have heard from many borrowers who are, let us say very 
concerned about what happens at the end of the pause, which is 
why I introduced the Student Loan Borrower Safety Net Act, so 
when payments resume, my bill will help by providing earlier, 
and more frequent outreach to borrowers, making it easier for 
borrowers to get into income driven payment plans, and access 
economic hardship support, also provide back-end protections 
for those who end up missing payments after the pause ends.
    The goal is to provide services and a support system to 
help especially the most vulnerable borrowers. We should not 
end the pause until we put these safeguards in place, along 
with a comprehensive plan to help new and future borrowers. 
What steps is the department taking to help borrowers when 
payments restart, and how will you determine whether the 
servicers have the information they need to best support 
student loan borrowers?
    Secretary Cardona. Again, thank you for that. This is an 
example of something that we realize we have to do better. The 
Department of Education has to do better. We are really proud 
of the work that is happening under FSA, Federal Student Aid, 
to make sure that there are better on-ramps for borrowers to 
get back to repayment in a way that is manageable for them, 
where they can be successful, and get back to repaying loans in 
a way that they are not being asked to pay more than they can 
afford.
    We are working on income-driven repayment changes, to make 
sure that it is reasonable and it is manageable for our 
borrowers. We are also communicating early and often with our 
borrowers. We are proactively engaging with them, especially 
those that are at risk of delinquency, to give them options.
    It is very intimidating for our borrowers to have to think 
about going back into the system, but I can assure you the 
system that they are going to be going back to, is not the same 
system they left, or a system where they didn't have answers, 
or it was unclear.
    We take it very seriously, and we too agree that when we do 
start to end the pause, and start the repayment process, we 
have to have a more user-friendly process that is more clear to 
the borrowers, and working with our services to make sure they 
have the information that they need, and that they are taking 
care of our borrowers, so that they can be successful repaying.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, and as I yield 
back, I just want to note the importance of yes, this is a 
short-term solution, but in the long-term we need to make 
higher education affordable and accessible for all. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady from New York, 
Ms. Stefanik.
    Ms. Stefanik. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, the 
National School Board Association recently released the results 
of the independent review into their letter to President Biden 
calling for the DOJ to use counter terrorism tools to 
investigate parents as domestic terrorists.
    The report in fact confirmed that the Biden White House 
colluded with NSBA on the letter, which DOJ immediately acted 
upon to mobilize the FBI to target parents at school board 
meetings. The investigation also revealed that the White House 
used information from NSBA regarding the planned letter to 
include in discussions with the Department of Justice before 
the letter was even finalized.
    In fact, a week before the letter was officially sent, the 
White House had a detailed summary of the contents of the 
letter, and its request for Federal intervention against 
parents, including usage of the Patriot Act. Mr. Secretary, the 
report also reveals that senior officials at your agency, the 
Department of Education, had been in contact with NSBA 
regarding ``concerns about the increased public activism at 
school board meetings,'' as early as last July.
    I want to ask you questions about your awareness and 
involvement in the letter. In August of last year, you 
participated in virtual town hall meetings with NSBA 
representatives. During these events did you request that NSBA 
write the letter, or otherwise indicate support for the letter?
    Secretary Cardona. I think the same report you referenced 
showed that there was no evidence of that, and we have been 
saying since day one that there----
    Ms. Stefanik. No?
    Secretary Cardona. Correct. That is a no, it has been the--
--
    Ms. Stefanik. Then my response to that is----
    Secretary Cardona. Can I finish with my responses?
    Ms. Stefanik. No. This is my time. Did you suggest in any 
manner that the NSBA should solicit Federal intervention and 
resources to deal in any way with local school board meetings?
    Secretary Cardona. Congresswoman, I feel strongly that 
parent's voices does matter, and especially during the pandemic 
when things were not----
    Ms. Stefanik. You are not answering my question. It is a 
question.
    Secretary Cardona. My understanding of your question is 
that you are doing exactly what I did not want done. Let us not 
use this for division. We talked to over 8,400 parents.
    Ms. Stefanik. All I am saying is did you suggest in any 
matter during those virtual town halls with NSBA that--did you 
try to solicit any Federal intervention or resources to deal 
with local school board meetings? It is a yes or no, and I 
follow this.
    Secretary Cardona. No. There was no attempt to do that. 
What we wanted to do--I would love to finish my responses.
    Ms. Stefanik. Mr. Secretary, you answered no. You answered 
no.
    Secretary Cardona. I think it is fair to give me an 
opportunity to respond if you are asking me a question.
    Ms. Stefanik. Mr. Secretary, you answered no. The report in 
fact stated that, ``Some evidence also suggests that you 
requested additional information be sent to your office on 
disruptions at school board meetings during the August 16 town 
hall meeting.'' What did you mean about the additional 
information sent, and did you in fact receive this additional 
information?
    Secretary Cardona. Are you going to allow me to answer the 
question?
    Ms. Stefanik. Yes.
    Secretary Cardona. Okay, thank you. The NSBA, as well as 
other groups that are working with our families, including PTA 
parent groups, routinely communicate with the Department of 
Education, as we are trying our best to be a service agency. 
Concerns were shared about some of the activities in some of 
the board meetings, and that is routine conversation that we 
have with different stakeholders when things are working well, 
and what concerns they have.
    That is typical practice here. As I said before, we did not 
ask for any letters, we did not ask for any information that 
you are alluding to. In fact, if you look at our track record 
Congresswoman.
    Ms. Stefanik. Why did you not make----
    Secretary Cardona. We have met with over 8,400 parents. I 
have had parent groups, parent roundtables at many of my 
visits, and I know as an educator that parents are critical to 
the success of their children. They are the best partners in 
the process. That is why I am fighting for full-service 
community schools that engage parents.
    That is why I expected American Rescue Plan proposals add 
parent engagement in. Look at our track record and social 
footprint as well.
    Ms. Stefanik. Mr. Secretary, I know I have hit a nerve 
here, so I am going to continue asking questions. The answer is 
yes, there was additional information as part of those 
conversations. My followup is, were you, or any Department of 
Education personnel sent a copy, or otherwise made aware of a 
summary of the letter provided to the White House on September 
21? That is a pretty easy yes or no question.
    Secretary Cardona. I do not have any information. I do not 
recall getting any letter, summary letter.
    Ms. Stefanik. Were you made aware of the September 22 
discussion between White House and DOJ pertaining to the 
letter, or ``options we can pursue here'' where you, or any 
personnel at the Department of Education?
    Secretary Cardona. Not that I am aware of at this point. I 
do not have any information on that.
    Ms. Stefanik. When you first, and your staff first made 
aware of the letter on September 29, is that what you are 
testifying to today?
    Secretary Cardona. I can have my staff get back to you on 
what information we received if you like, if it is that 
important to you. Let us focus on what is in the budget to help 
our families.
    Ms. Stefanik. These are important to parents across the 
country, in fact we do have an outstanding Freedom of 
Information Act request which was sent to the department 
requesting all information documents or communications. If 
there is no problem providing this to Congress, why has the 
department not complied with this request?
    Do you intend to comply with the FOIA request, and what is 
the timeline for that?
    Secretary Cardona. We always do, and we want to continue to 
connect with families as we have done in the past, thank you.
    Ms. Stefanik. What is the timeline for that FOIA, complying 
with that FOIA?
    Secretary Cardona. I will have my staff reach out to you 
and give you that information, thank you.
    Ms. Stefanik. I see them handing you papers. I can see it 
on the screen. My final question is President Biden's DOJ has 
in fact not rescinded the memo directing the FBI to use 
counterterrorism tools----
    Chairman Scott. The gentlelady's time has expired well 
over.
    Ms. Stefanik. Thank you.
    Chairman Scott. Okay. The gentlelady's time has expired. 
Next on our side is Takano, Adams, DeSaulnier?
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I am here.
    Chairman Scott. The gentleman from California, Mr. 
DeSaulnier.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you for your 
introductory actions and comments. Mr. Secretary, thank you so 
much for your passion, and your honesty today. I had two, well, 
I have one area of conversation in your budget, and 
prospectively, but I am going to add a second one, so I will 
ask these two questions at the same time because they are 
inter-related, but we also have to distinguish the differences.
    First on mental health, you and I have had this 
conversation multiple times now, I think. We passed a bill out 
offered by myself and the chairman just a week ago, and a 
series of bills, a wonderful bill by Representative Wild, 
Representative Hayes, just had a bill prior. On mental health, 
our bill, the Mental Health Matters Act, the spirit of it is to 
invest and a question on your budget.
    In the whole array of how do we get more services for kids 
and teachers, in particular, from Head Start to higher 
education, a pipeline so we get more people into the field. We 
know from the ACA and parity, that there has been a very large 
increase in requests for mental health services. I very much 
appreciate the hearings we have had, and the sentiment by all 
of my colleagues, including the Ranking Members about stigma.
    What can we do, and what are we doing in the budget, and 
what could we do more in the budget, for mental health in how 
we coordinate with other initiatives and other departments? HHS 
just announced a week ago a grant for the study and 
coordination of social media and its effect on kids. That is 
the first question.
    The second is more related to what is just happened. I am 
reminded of the Steinbeck quote ``that a sad soul has killed 
more people than any germ.'' This hopelessness over what is 
happening in this country, in schools in particular that you 
addressed, and we do have to distinguish these.
    The United States is not an outlier when it comes to mental 
health, but we are when it comes to gun violence. You are 25 
times more likely to be a victim of gun violence in the United 
States. The U.S. has 4.4 percent of the world population, but 
we have 42.5 percent of the guns in the world.
    Separating those two. First, what you are doing in the 
budget to do more for mental health for teachers and students, 
and a career pipeline for people to go into the field of mental 
health, so we can get these services out. Second, can you do 
more about school safety, and specifically gun violence? Do you 
have more authority without the Congress?
    At the same time that you look at that question, and the 
urgency you expressed in your initial opening comments about 
this, can you look at everything you can do to coordinate for 
the very best evidence-based research, that we have had success 
with the minority when it comes to criminal justice reform. 
Give us the facts. Give the states the facts.
    We know in Connecticut, California, what happened yesterday 
is less likely. It still can happen, but it is less likely 
statistically because of the legislative actions they have 
done. If you could answer those two questions--can you do more 
while you work with us to do more statutorily, and the 
conversation with the minority maybe we can have success.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. Thank you for that and thank you 
for your advocacy. I do believe the mental health needs in our 
schools have been greater, even before the pandemic. In my 
conversations with students, as recently as a couple weeks ago 
when I was in Nevada, New Mexico, excuse me, there were 
students who said that if it weren't for the supports that were 
put in place post-pandemic with ARP money, one students said, 
those supports saved my life.
    We are at a crisis right now. I do appreciate the Surgeon 
General lifting it to the level of crisis. This budget proposes 
funds to make mental health supports not just a little bit 
more, but pervasively change the system to make sure it is the 
foundation under which professional development is provided for 
our educators, making sure that more programs are available for 
our families and our students.
    We are supporting community-based programs in our schools 
so that students have seamless access. We know students are six 
times more likely to access the mental health supports in our 
schools than they are in the community. That is why we are 
promoting full-service community schools, and mental health 
supports in our schools.
    Thank you for the $90 million in the Omnibus, but we are 
proposing more because we need more mental health support work 
in our school, so yes, foundationally our schools have to be 
transformative in their changes to make sure mental health 
access is there for all students.
    Going to the second question, we are working very closely 
with HHS on an intergovernmental approach to work more closely 
to make sure that these systems are pervasive in our country, 
and not just pockets of excellence, and we look forward to 
working with our republican colleagues to just remove the 
politics.
    Let us talk about what our kids need and give us the 
opportunity to share from the perspective of educators what the 
needs are in our schools, and I hope we can make some progress.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My time is up. I 
will yield back, but I look forward to further the conversation 
about what you can do more on school safety.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. 
Allen.
    Mr. Allen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. 
Secretary for being with us today. Obviously yes, a dreadful 
day for America, and our great country. Obviously, we have got 
some local issues that you may, or may not be aware of, but I 
wanted to make you aware of, and in our largest city, which is 
also they have demonized and defunded the police in Atlanta, 
Georgia, that it is unsafe.
    In fact, they are trying to separate parts of the city, so 
that other folks get protection. It is just a mess, but I would 
like to make you aware of politically motivated lesson plans 
taught in one of Georgia's largest public school districts. The 
Atlanta Public Schools is opposing Georgia's new election law 
and voter identification.
    I am concerned that our students at Atlanta Public Schools 
are receiving one-sided information on this bill to advance a 
candidate for office and their political aims. I want you to 
know that I wrote a letter to the Georgia Department of 
Education about this concern, in fact this week Georgia had 
their primary election. Under Georgia's new election law, early 
voting increased 212 percent above compared to 2020.
    I think we need to move away from injecting bias, political 
indoctrination, in the classroom, and teach comprehensive facts 
on issues. Are you aware of this, Mr. Secretary?
    Secretary Cardona. Specific to the issue in Georgia, I 
cannot comment. Curricular decisions are made at the local 
level, but what I can tell you, however, is the way our system 
is set up is states and local municipalities are the ones who 
pass curriculums, and it would be important for communication 
to those bodies to take place.
    Mr. Allen. Okay.
    Secretary Cardona. I will tell you is that curriculum 
should be the truth, should be the truth, and it should cover 
you know what makes this country so great, but include the 
parts that we are not so proud of as well.
    Mr. Allen. Yes, well Mr. Chairman is----
    Secretary Cardona. The department, that would be my opinion 
based on myself as an educator.
    Mr. Allen. Right, right, yes, yes, there is a big debate on 
what is the truth, and I would like Mr. Chairman, I would like 
to submit this letter for the record please.
    Chairman Scott. Without objection.
    [The information of Mr. Allen follows:]
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    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T8092.024
    
    Mr. Allen. Okay. Mr. Secretary, in your testimony you 
stated that you are committed to reversing funding inequities. 
There is nothing more inequitable than a wealthy parent being 
able to send their child to any school they want, but outdated 
education policies telling low-income parents they cannot have 
the same opportunity.
    We do not want to lose one child in this country. The idea 
of school choice is not public versus private schools, but the 
opportunity for parents to choose the best school for their 
child regardless of their zip code, whether that be a 
traditional, public, private charter, or faith-based school. 
Last year, I asked you if you would support the idea of school 
choice, and you could not give me a direct answer.
    I ask you Mr. Secretary, will you embrace the idea of 
school choice to allow every student to flourish in a learning 
environment they are best suited for?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. I do support.
    Mr. Allen. Okay, great, thank you. Mr. Secretary, another 
issue I would like to discuss is the lack of transparency being 
taught in the classroom, specifically lessons stemming critical 
race theory. I am proud that Georgia State Board of Education 
adopted a resolution affirming they will work to prevent for 
more promotion of divisive ideologies.
    Parents want an educational system that will allow their 
students to gain skills needed to obtain good-paying jobs, and 
that will allow them to be successful. I hope you will be 
committed to addressing these issues, and to supporting school 
choice in the department's budget.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Mr. Allen. All right. Well, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman yields back, and 
next we will hear from the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. 
Norcross.
    Mr. Norcross. Thank you, Chairman and Secretary, welcome. 
Unfortunately, very difficult circumstances in the last 48 
hours, just incredible on so many levels. The idea of taking 
your kids to school and dropping them off, no parent should 
ever have to wonder whether those kids will be alive when they 
pick up, so I appreciate the comments by the Chairman and by 
you earlier on.
    I want to make a small deviation on safety in terms of guns 
and certainly violence and change a little bit to a letter that 
we have sent to the appropriators, and certainly to your office 
talking about the Office of School Infrastructure and 
Sustainability. I understand that is going to be included in 
the budget, but I would like to get a little bit of feedback 
from you on why, given the experiences we just went through, 
particularly with COVID, and the direct connection with 
spreading of viruses, in this case COVID, but in general.
    What we can do to upgrade our schools? Have that central 
clearing house. Hospitals obviously know about this 
particularly given the nature of what they are dealing in, and 
schools do not always look at it that way because it is not 
health and safety all the time the way hospitals are. Can you 
talk a little bit about bringing the experiences from around 
the country, and certainly from the experts that we are dealing 
with in Washington?
    Secretary Cardona. Certainly, Congressman Norcross. Thank 
you for the opportunity to speak to this. You know, absolutely. 
I think we have the responsibility under the Department of 
Education to lift up best practices across the country, and to 
support and be a service agency where we see that there is a 
great need.
    I can tell you from experience that you know when I was 
serving as a principal of an elementary school during a 
massacre that took place about 35-40 minutes away from where 
the school I worked in was, we overhauled our protocols, our 
sign-in procedures, our background checks.
    We had devices in our office. We had a single point of 
entry. We had as I mentioned in the beginning, windows were 
numbered, and we had ongoing professional development and 
training for this. There were some things that we did, and then 
as things changed, the protocols changed, our connections with 
the police department.
    These are all valuable tools that we believe. When we are 
talking about not only responding or preparing for these, but 
when we are building schools, we need to be aware of what 
things we should be taking into account to ensure student 
safety and staff safety.
    Mr. Norcross. Almost 10 years ago when I was serving in the 
New Jersey Senate, there were a series of shootings--mass 
shootings that all brought it home. There were those that want 
to turn our schools into literally encampments that are locked 
down, that you could not go outside. There is a definite fine 
line in keeping our children safe, but making sure they are not 
in a prison, that they still enjoy going to school.
    This is where those best practices are going to have to 
come into play. Not one size fits all when it comes to 
infrastructure. We are a free and great nation, but we cannot 
get locked down. If you can just talk about that sort of 
dichotomy.
    Secretary Cardona. We have to thread the needle right? We 
want our schools to be happy places where kids are being kids. 
They are jumping, they are laughing, they are playing recess 
without fear of you know, having to worry about, having being 
fenced in, or blocked in, or having recess indoors.
    We have to thread that balance, and we wanted to make sure 
that our school concerts have grandparents there, and family 
members celebrating the achievements of the children. Schools 
are happy places. They are communities. We have to have a 
balance. With that said, it is really important for us to 
broaden the conversation, right?
    We have to be sensible about legislation that could protect 
public places because it is not only schools, a week and a half 
ago it was a grocery store. It was a church. We need to be 
sensible and realize that it is not one solution that is going 
to take care of all of that. We are a part of it. We always 
have to be vigilant, and balance that, but it is not just that.
    We had have to be thinking globally about things that over 
80 percent of Americans agree on certain policies that are 
being not discussed when I cannot find too many things that 80 
percent of Americans agree on today, yet there is some very 
sensible legislation that can be passed that we need folks to 
act on now.
    Mr. Norcross. Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my 
time, chairman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman from Indiana, Mr. 
Banks.
    Mr. Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, Title IX 
of the education amendments of 1972 prohibits discrimination on 
the basis of sex. However, your department is currently pushing 
a rule to force every school in America to add non-binary as a 
sex characteristic.
    How can the Department of Education enforce sex-based 
discrimination when the very definition of sex is so unclear?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman. We are not 
pushing for that. We are allowing states who have different 
categories to use those different categories of data collection 
that they are already collecting.
    Mr. Banks. You are not pushing for a rule to add non-
binary?
    Secretary Cardona. We are allowing states to report 
whatever classifications they have in their states, yes.
    Mr. Banks. Interesting. Mr. Secretary, do you believe that 
biological male athletes competing in women sports are in 
conflict with Title IX protections for female athletes?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, I understand where your line of 
questioning is going. I would love to talk to you about how the 
budget is going to help the students in your community. I am 
proud of the Title IX regulations.
    Mr. Banks. Wait, Mr. Secretary, it is a question. Is it 
fair for biological boys to compete against girls in sports?
    Secretary Cardona. Really, all children should have an 
opportunity to engage in extracurricular activities, including 
athletics, including the arts because that is what our schools 
provide. Every student should have access to it.
    Mr. Banks. Mr. Secretary, never before have we had an 
administration like this one, that is decimated Title IX like 
you guys are. Do you believe it is fair or not for biological 
boys to compete against girls in sports? It is a simple 
question.
    Secretary Cardona. I believe all students should have 
access to sports.
    Mr. Banks. You do support biological boys competing against 
girls in sports?
    Secretary Cardona. I believe I answered the question.
    Mr. Banks. No you have not. It is a simple question, just 
answer the question. The administration either supports it, or 
you do not.
    Secretary Cardona. You are saying do I believe transgender 
girls should have access to sports? Yes, I do.
    Mr. Banks. You and this administration support biological 
boys competing against girls in sports? Furthermore, you do not 
believe that that is in direct conflict with Title IX?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, I see where your questions are 
going, and I am going to be very clear with you. Our 
transgender students need to feel supported, included, and 
seen, and your line of questioning is, even by describing it 
the way you are doing it, shows me that you do not believe that 
all students should have access to the extracurricular 
activities that schools provide.
    Mr. Banks. Well, I guess where I am going, Mr. Secretary, 
is you can defend, you believe that Title IX protects 
biological boys competing against girls in sports, does this 
administration stand by that? We are about to celebrate the 
50th anniversary next month of Title IX, which was brought 
about with bipartisan support 50 years ago, and somehow, 
somewhere, you and this administration believe that Title IX 
somehow protects biological boys from competing against girls 
in sports. You are okay with that.
    Secretary Cardona. I have had conversations with girls who 
are transgender, who also looked to sports to develop their own 
sense of accomplishment, to set goals, to work as part of a 
team. I do support their ability to access what the public 
schools provide, both at the K-12 level, and at the higher ed 
level.
    Mr. Banks. All right. Now Mr. Secretary, do you agree that 
school districts should keep a child's involvement and gender 
transition a secret from their parents?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, I would love to answer questions on 
the budget, which is why I am here, and I think what----
    Mr. Banks. Mr. Secretary, these are policies that your 
administration stands behind. You are asking me to fund your 
budget, these are policies that you stand for. It is completely 
relevant as to why you are here today, it is a simple question. 
Answer the question, do you think that schools should keep it a 
secret for their parents if their children are involved in 
gender transition?
    Secretary Cardona. Parents--listen, parents and schools 
must work together to support students, and I do strongly 
support, and if you look through the work that we have 
supported, and our policies, and our practices, we want parents 
and----
    Mr. Banks. Should schools keep that a secret from parents?
    Secretary Cardona. Excuse me?
    Mr. Banks. Should schools ever keep it a secret from 
parents if their children are involved in gender transition? 
Should that be a secret from parents?
    Secretary Cardona. Schools should be partnering with 
parents and communication, and there are times where schools 
are working and supporting students on issues that are very 
sensitive, but I do believe that parents should be connected 
with schools, and in many cases, working together is what is 
going to help the student.
    I have spoken to students who've shared whatever situation 
is at the home, that they felt safe at the school, and we have 
to be careful not to try to turn this into something that it is 
not. Our schools are safe places for our students, and our 
teachers are often the front liners when it comes to supporting 
students when they have issues in their lives.
    Mr. Banks. That is a very bizarre answer. Mr. Chairman, I 
yield back.
    Chairman Scott. The gentleman yields back. Thank you. Let 
us see, the gentlelady from Washington, Ms. Jayapal, Mr. 
Morelle, Ms. Wild? The gentlelady from Georgia, Mrs. McBath.
    Mrs. McBath. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you so much. 
Thank you so much Secretary Cardona for being with us today. I 
was really prepared today to ask you about the Department of 
Education's expansion of Pell Grants. I really wanted to kind 
of bring those questions to light, but with the recent massacre 
at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas, you know, a story this 
Nation has had to tell over and over and over again. It is just 
difficult to discuss college grants for our children when we 
cannot even be sure if they are going to survive elementary 
school.
    On Tuesday afternoon our Nation learned once again that we, 
we the adults in this country allowed our children to be 
slaughtered because some of our colleagues in the United States 
Capitol, some of our colleagues on this committee, were too 
afraid to stand up to the NRA, and prevent this from happening.
    We lost 19 young children on Tuesday. 19 young babies, 
children with goals, children with hope, children with futures. 
We did not lose them, we allowed them to be taken, taken by 
those who should not be able to access guns. As I have told 
this committee before, and as I have told the American people 
before, I sadly know these parents in Uvalde. I know how they 
feel.
    I know the horrifying, heartbreaking, soul crushing feeling 
of losing your baby, realizing that they will never walk 
through your front door again, that you will not see them walk 
across their graduation stage. That you will not have that 
first dance with them. That you will never be able to hug your 
child again. It is a pain that never goes away, and while it 
takes away your baby, your children, it leaves you with this 
fiery and everlasting resolve to ensure that this happens to no 
other mother, to no other family, to no other community.
    That is why I am so thankful today that my Federal Red Flag 
Bill will finally, finally, be on the House floor when we 
return in June. Red flag laws have been enacted in 19 other 
states and the District of Columbia. They empower our families, 
household members, and law enforcement to ensure that those who 
pose a threat to their community or themselves, do not have 
access to firearms.
    My bill will allow these close contacts to petition a 
Federal District Court to have guns taken out of the wrong 
hands. Once a Federal District Court has issued an ERPO order, 
law enforcement will be empowered to take these firearms and 
ammunition out of the hands of dangerous people, or people that 
are a threat to themselves. I urge my colleagues on the other 
side of the aisle, to finally stand up for the children in 
their districts as well, for the children in America, and 
support a Federal Red Flag law, my bill, H.R. 2377.
    We have the power to stop this. I have been listening over 
and over again as everybody talks about prayers and thoughts, 
and how sorry they are for the families, but yet we refuse to 
act. There are no excuses anymore to any of my colleagues, no 
excuses. Not a one of us, not any one of us has constituents in 
our communities that are immune to this kind of violence.
    It is happening everywhere. We have the power to protect 
our babies, we cannot continue to wait any longer. I yield back 
the balance of my time.
    Chairman Scott. The gentlelady yields back. The gentleman 
from Kentucky, Mr. Comer, the gentleman from Idaho, Mr. 
Fulcher.
    Mr. Fulcher. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I 
should have interjected earlier, but these first few seconds of 
my time to communicate that I do take personal offense to what 
Congresswoman Wilson stated earlier. I took that as insulting 
about being spineless and having some kind of elicit affair 
with some lobby, so I just want the record to show that.
    Now I will proceed with my questions.
    Chairman Scott. All members are advised to leave out 
questions of motive, or character of other members, so the 
gentleman from Idaho's point is well-taken.
    Mr. Fulcher. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. 
Secretary for being here today, and I appreciate your comments 
and testimony. In regard to that, you had previously discussed 
in your written testimony the need to strengthen the budget to 
address what you referred to as daunting barriers to students, 
especially students of low-income communities, that face 
obtaining high-quality education.
    Your budget request seeks to remove those barriers, and yet 
my colleague, which is Representative Jacobs, put forward a 
letter that I, and many of us signed on the committee signed, 
that seeks to prevent additional barriers the department is 
putting in the way of charter schools to get started and 
operating.
    This is the notice of priorities, requirements, definitions 
and selection criteria, NPP, for charter school and charter 
school programs. These schools help the poor and the rural 
students, especially in my State. Would you please speak to 
that? How do you reconcile the apparent conflict here?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question, Congressman, 
and I do agree that quality education comes in different forms. 
Quality public charter schools are an option. As I have said 
before, I have seen great examples of public charter schools 
meet the needs of students and provide innovation.
    What we are doing here through the regulatory process is 
proposing what we believe are reasonable proposals that 
increase greater accountability and transparency and fiscal 
responsibility, responsiveness to community, and collaboration. 
Now a lot of the information in these proposals are not--they 
are not set yet, have been twisted a bit to make it seem like 
we are requiring it, and that is absolutely not the case.
    These are proposals, and we have done a lot of listening, 
and we have gotten a lot of good feedback, which is the way the 
process should work.
    Mr. Fulcher. Mr. Chair, thank you for that. Just a 
statement here. I want to make sure to communicate something. 
Charter schools consistently enroll about 10 percent of Idaho's 
students, and they have achieved largely positive results, both 
academically in terms of career enrollments, especially the 
brick-and-mortar ones, and our traditional public schools have 
a large positive relationship within the school district.
    According to a Stanford study in 2019, the average Idaho 
charter school outperforms traditional public schools, and they 
also do well on average with the ISAT, the Idaho Standard 
Achievement Test, and so, they excel. The administration 
appears to have some heartburn with the charter school 
situation, and I just want to go on record and tell you that 
look, it worked in our State.
    If you would like to comment on that great, but I do have 
another question I would like to get to here as well.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Mr. Fulcher. Good, I am going to proceed. Mr. Secretary, 
regarding loan forgiveness, on the borrower defense to 
repayment, FSA's website states, ``The summary reports on the 
number of claims filed approved, et cetera, are supposed to be 
published on a monthly basis.'' Are you aware there has not 
been any report published since December 2021?
    Secretary Cardona. I will look into that sir, and have my 
staff reach out to yours about the reporting frequency.
    Mr. Fulcher. Please do. It would just be helpful that to 
understand the volume of borrower defense claims before the new 
proposed regulation is issued, and it is my understanding that 
there is a proposed rule updating the BDR discharge process to 
be released in the coming weeks. Is that your understanding? Is 
that correct?
    Secretary Cardona. Again, I can have our team reach out to 
you regarding borrower defense. We know that over 2 billion 
dollars in borrower defense was provided to 132,000 borrowers 
to date.
    Mr. Fulcher. We just need that information, Mr. Secretary, 
it is important as part of the process. I also think a better 
understanding of all the claims are important given the need to 
be aware of some concerning practices by advocacy groups that 
appear to have the President's ear with respect to debt 
cancellation.
    Mr. Secretary, are you aware of a group called the Debt 
Collective?
    Secretary Cardona. No, I am not in communication, or aware 
of.
    Mr. Fulcher. Actually, I am just about out of time here, 
but it is an left wing organization. Their mission is to 
achieve full debt cancellation for all. Just want to bring that 
to your attention, that is what we are up against, thank you, 
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. The gentleman yields back. Next is the 
gentlelady from the Secretary's home State, the gentlelady from 
Connecticut, Ms. Hayes.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you Mr. 
Secretary for being here. He is actually my constituent. My 
questions--I had different questions for today, but as you can 
imagine in light of everything that just happened, I want to 
shift my line of questioning because like you, I was in the 
classroom when Sandy Hook happened, and like you, I have 
children who are being educated in this State then and now.
    In 2020, 3 million teenagers reporting having serious 
thoughts of suicide, nearly 4 in 10 people in the U.S. are now 
reporting symptoms of anxiety and depression. Prior to COVID it 
was 1 in 10. 1 in 5 young people report that the pandemic had a 
significant impact on their mental health, and 80 percent of 
youth in need of mental health services do not have access in 
their community.
    Finally, in 2019, no State met the student to social worker 
ratio, for one social worker to every 250 students as 
recommended by the National Association of Social Workers. 
There is a lot of conversations being had about where we go 
from here. Last week in this committee we marked up the Mental 
Health Matters Act, which included my bill, the Supporting 
Trauma Informed Education Practices.
    My question to you Mr. Secretary, is what are the plans of 
the department to address the mental health needs of not only 
our students, but of our educators who are not prepared, and 
should not be expected to deal with this type of trauma, and 
also to better prepare them to identify red flags, and changes 
in behavior, and have the resources and the support when they 
try to report those things.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congresswoman Hayes. I 
appreciate the work that you are doing to really lift up the 
importance of trauma informed schooling and providing real 
professional learning opportunities for teachers to really 
develop those skillsets, to look for those flags, as you have 
called them, to make sure that students are getting the help 
that they need.
    We appreciate in the Omnibus, the 90 million for mental 
health supports, and in this budget proposal, we are proposing 
not only funding for additional school social workers and 
psychologists. I am very proud to say that the American Rescue 
Plan dollars have increased the number of school psychologists 
and social workers, so thank you for the support of that.
    We are also looking at full-service community schools 
because we know in our schools where mental health supports are 
also community-based, it is more likely that our students get 
access to it. As an educator in Waterbury, it is really 
important that children have access to mental health supports 
as a foundation of their learning, and that it is 
destigmatized, so that there are various pathways to mental 
health supports.
    I appreciate the statistics that you shared. For us as the 
Department of Education, we are really looking at mental health 
access as a pillar of how we reimagine schools, and we have 
asked the American Rescue Plan funds be used for that, and we 
are expecting with our budget that it can also promote better 
strategies across the country.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I will also add not 
only for the professionals who are trained in those areas, but 
many of our classroom teachers who never had any of this high-
level training are the first ones who have to deal with these 
type of traumatic events. There is a lot of conversation about 
where we go next, and I was discouraged by the fact that many 
of my colleagues on this committee voted against supporting 
trauma informed education practices, voted against many of the 
mental health bills that we brought for to this committee.
    As we go forward that has to be a part of any comprehensive 
strategy that we have. My other question was actually about 
Title IX, and I appreciate the answers that you gave, and your 
commitment to supporting all of our students, because I do not 
know how you single students out until there is a critical 
mass.
    I know that there will be coming up--there is going to be a 
re-evaluation of the way--of Section 504, with regulations 
regarding students with disabilities. Can you tell us how you 
plan to engage all families as before, as part of the 
decisionmaking process in that area?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. Thank you very much for that 
question, and I certainly agree before I get into that, the 
importance of classroom teachers, and making sure our teacher 
preparation programs understand trauma informed instruction is 
critical. Those connections are critical. Yes, we have an 
opportunity here to listen, to engage families of different 
backgrounds, people who have had good experiences with the 504 
process, and people who feel that did not work for them.
    As an educator myself I have seen examples where it seems 
like the program, the implementation of it does not work the 
way its intended. Our agency is aiming to have a very wide net 
of stakeholder engagement to make sure that whatever we put 
forward has the input of those families and students that we 
serve.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, because the answers 
will be different than they were 50 years ago. Mr. Chair, I 
yield back, thank you.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman from Pennsylvania, 
Mr. Keller.
    Mr. Keller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Cardona, a 
new rule for gainful employment was discussed in the 
department's most recent negotiated rulemaking session. A 
number of negotiators suggested that the department go back to 
the 2014 gainful employment regulations as a base to jumpstart 
negotiations.
    However, the department did not do this. Instead, the 
department limited negotiators to two sessions to view and 
discuss their gainful employment. The proposal made several 
changes, including the removal of any ability for an 
institution to appeal the data before becoming ineligible for 
Title IV programs and proposed to give the Secretary authority 
to remove an entire institution's ability for Title IV because 
of the small program rates, debt-to-earnings rates, and the 
earnings threshold measure, among other items. Mr. Secretary, 
what is the rationale for these changes?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. We feel 
strongly that we have a responsibility to improve, and I see 
you do not disagree with that, to improve gainful employment, 
and to make sure that students who are going to higher 
education institutions have a good return on investment and are 
able to be employed.
    The processes that we are using does take into account 
input, and I would be happy to followup with your team if you 
want to hear more information about why it was done in the way 
it was done.
    Mr. Keller. Okay. Just real quickly, why was the department 
unwilling to allow for institutions to appeal any of the data?
    Secretary Cardona. Again sir, I would be happy to have more 
detailed followup with the folks from the higher education team 
with your team to share more information about how the 
decisions were made to move forward with our gainful employment 
processes.
    Mr. Keller. Okay. I will move along here. On June 24 of 
2021, when discussing higher education policy, you stated 
before the committee your intent to hold all higher educational 
institutions accountable for misleading students, not just the 
ones the department does not support.
    The department is leading an Office of Enforcement to 
increase oversight over proprietary institutions while non-
profit institutions do not face similar scrutiny. The FTC, in 
particular, has threatened to take action against the largest 
proprietary institutions by their own admission, using the 
Department of Education's published data on revenue and 
enrollment size of these institutions, despite having zero 
reasons to believe there has been any wrongdoing at these 
specific institutions.
    Mr. Secretary, can you please explain how the department 
plans to keep its focus on providing value for the student, 
rather than scrutinizing institutions based upon their 
taxpaying status?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman Keller, and I 
again appreciate your engagement on the topic. We are setting 
out to improve services and ensure students are not taken 
advantage of. We recognize that there are some institutions 
that are more likely to do this, so we do have our FSA 
enforcement unit, but we do believe that all schools should be 
held to a high account when it comes to providing a return on 
investment.
    This is work that we are going to continue to do because 
the system is not working now, and I welcome your input, I 
welcome your thoughts on this, on how we can do better, but the 
goal for us is really to make sure that we are enforcing good 
practices, so that our students are not left in major debt and 
inability to pay.
    Mr. Keller. Well, that should be a goal of all of ours that 
people get a quality education regardless of the institution's 
filing status. We can all agree on that, right?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes.
    Mr. Keller. The filing status of an institution, whether it 
is proprietary, not for profit, public, it does not matter. If 
they are providing a good education, we need to support them. 
If they are not, we need to make sure we hold them accountable. 
I want to keep the focus squarely on the student, and I think 
we all want to do that, and make sure that they have the tools 
to succeed.
    Again, I think we can agree on that. We did it in our last 
meeting, and I guess I would just want a commitment. I know the 
last time we talked we agreed on making sure everybody's held 
accountable in the same method. Have you come up with any plans 
since our last discussion on how we are going to do that?
    Secretary Cardona. Well, yes. The strategies that are 
coming out of higher ed with the scorecard. With our 
conversations, we are meeting with these folks regularly. 
Private, public institutions, and the message is the same.
    Mr. Keller. Well, I would just say this. If that is the 
case, and we care about the student, then I think we should get 
a hold of the FTC, and make sure that they are not targeting 
proprietary institutions, and using your information to do 
that. I guess I would just--let us make sure that we have the 
agreement that nobody should be using the Department of 
Education's information to target any institutions simply 
because of their status.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
    Chairman Scott. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman 
yields back?
    Mr. Keller. Yes.
    Chairman Scott. Next is the gentleman from Michigan, the 
gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Levin.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Secretary 
Cardona, it is so great to have you here. I have been honored 
to have your leadership on many initiatives I work on, 
including the Jobs Act, and expanding Pell Grants, WIOA, and of 
course America's College Promise Act, and I was so delighted to 
welcome you to both Oakland and Macomb Community College in 
Michigan last year.
    We have had deep and meaningful conversations about how to 
protect and strengthen our public education system from pre-K 
to post-secondary, and I want to focus--take a moment to focus 
on one aspect of that all here right now. That is the student 
debt crisis in this country.
    You know about it so well. I cannot commend you enough for 
the 17 billion dollars in forgiveness that your department and 
the President have provided for students defrauded by 
institutions, and for your strong start in fixing the broken 
public loan forgiveness program.
    That is all great, and yet we must do more. Millions of 
Americans have been prevented from fully participating in our 
economy, by buying a house, or changing careers, or starting a 
business, or even starting a family because they are saddled 
with this student loan debt.
    The student debt crisis is a racial gender and economic 
justice issue that impacts people of color and women 
disproportionately. Black borrowers on average owed $25,000 
more than white borrowers, and 58 percent of all student loan 
debt is held by women. The student debt crisis is also fueling 
other crises in our public education system, including the 
educational staff shortage that threatens to leave us without 
enough teachers and other school personnel that teach and take 
care of our kids in the classroom.
    Young people are not pursuing careers in education in part 
because they cannot afford to pay off their debts, and 
educators with debt are leaving the profession all together for 
the same reason. We have an opportunity here to provide 
immediate relief. Research shows, the bolder the cancellation, 
the better the outcome.
    Cancelling $50,000.00 of student loan debt will make 76 
percent of current borrowers debt free, transforming lives and 
delivering the biggest racial justice impact. Poll after poll 
has indicated that Americans want student debt relief. It is 
now really a question of when this will happen.
    Secretary, can you give us an update on when the President 
might announce--do you feel like this is going to happen, and 
when might the President announce an effort to relieve people 
up into, as you know, their 60's and 70's even, of this burden.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman, for the work you 
are doing around supporting our students, and I enjoyed the 
visit with you to see it on the ground. You know with regard to 
the broad-based student loan forgiveness, you know, the 
conversations are ongoing with the White House, and the 
Department of Education. We heard the President speak several 
weeks ago, and while I have nothing to share on that, you do 
know the conversations are going.
    I will tell you that we are not waiting for that to act for 
our borrowers who have been defrauded. We are proud of the work 
in 1 year to relieve over 19 billion dollars now in loans for 
over 770,000 borrowers, and this includes folks who are totally 
and permanently disabled.
    There is 8.6 billion dollars in relief there. Many of them 
are veterans.
    Mr. Levin. Yes.
    Secretary Cardona. You know the public service loan 
forgiveness, you brought it up, but in 1 year we are fixing 
that program it went from 98 percent denial rate. Now we have 
127,000 people who have benefited from it, teachers. You do not 
have to wait for the announcement.
    There are teachers who are eligible for loan forgiveness 
today. Studentaid.gov. Check it out. Police officers, firemen, 
professors, who are working in public service have eligibility 
now, so we are going to continue to do that. We are going to 
address the loans, outstanding loans for schools that have 
closed, for schools that took advantage of students, and sold 
them something they never delivered.
    We are proud of that record. We are going to continue doing 
that, and I appreciate your having this for that.
    Mr. Levin. Yes, well thanks, your work there has just been 
so fantastic. Turning to the budget for Fiscal Year 202023, and 
I do not have a lot of time left, but I would love for you to 
talk about steps you are taking to of course, bring down the 
cost of higher ed, because we cannot just fix the problems from 
the past, we have to fix it going forward.
    You have been such a staunch champion of my America's 
College Promise Act, I would love to hear you shout out again 
that you and the President and the First Lady are still you 
know, we are going to get that done at some point. Speak about 
the budget, and how you are going to lower the cost of higher 
ed.
    Secretary Cardona. We are really--we want to stop the 
bleeding. We do not want to be in the same position 5 years 
from now. We have increased FSA enforcement, the college 
scorecard, we have been meeting with institutions of higher ed, 
and we are going to push for a return on investment. That is 
what the American people need.
    Mr. Levin. Outstanding. Thanks, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Next, we will hear from the 
gentlelady from Iowa, Dr. Miller-Meeks.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Chairman Scott, and also 
Ranking Member Foxx, and thank you to Secretary Cardona for 
appearing here today, and I just want to say although Secretary 
Cardona you were not in place at the time that ARP was passed. 
I had two amendments of the time of that 14-hour markup that 
would allocate or appropriate 2 billion for mental health 
funding through K through 12 and 2 billion for mental health 
funding for higher education that was voted against by every 
single democrat on this committee.
    I do appreciate my colleague bringing up mental health 
issues, but I also want to remind that there were amendments 
that were passed to funding that has gone out the door, and yet 
there is still funding that has been unspent out of the ARP 
fundings that were appropriated to schools.
    We also recently heard about the student loan forgiveness, 
and with all the discussion about student debt forgiveness, I 
think it is important that we identify who in fact holds all 
the debt, and I will say that I am a physician who left home at 
16, starting at community college, worked myself through 
college, through a masters in education, and then to medical 
school, and was one of those individuals who did have student 
loan debt at 13 to 18 percent interest rates.
    According to Federal Reserve data, nearly 60 percent of 
outstanding student loan debt is held by borrowers with 
graduate degrees. During negotiated rulemaking sessions, your 
staff repeatedly noted that including graduate students and the 
new income driven repayment plan would provide benefits beyond 
the limited scope to which these repayment plans were designed, 
that is targeting benefits to low-income borrowers. I would 
agree with that.
    Can you confirm that the department will stick by its 
initial proposal and exclude graduate students from new income 
driven repayment plans?
    Secretary Cardona. We are having conversations about that, 
but I want to use this moment to share that teachers for 
example have graduate degrees, and are woefully under 
compensated compared to peers that have similar education 
levels, so not all graduate--folks with graduate degrees are in 
a position where they would not benefit from income driven 
repayment.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. It does not sound like you have given me 
no, you know, confirmation that you would limit those that are 
not within low-income borrowers, so that is not very 
reassuring. Furthermore, student loan forgiveness has also the 
effect that there is no requirement for schools to address 
spiraling or skyrocketing costs.
    I would also like to thank my colleague, Representative 
Fulcher, for bringing up charter schools. In our State in Iowa, 
we have robust educational opportunities, and our Governor has 
made that a point. Given the increase in achievement, 
especially in our minority populations, I think that all of us 
would agree that the most important thing we do is to educate, 
regardless of what institution. With that, I am going to yield 
the balance of my time to Representative Foxx.
    Ms. Foxx. I thank the gentlewoman for yielding. Mr. 
Secretary, to stick with this issue about loans, Operation 
Fresh Start, do you plan on announcing the details of the plan 
within the next week, and if not, when?
    Secretary Cardona. I do not have the information from the 
higher ed office when they plan on announcing, but I could have 
my team reach out to you within the next week to share when it 
is going to be set.
    Ms. Foxx. Well, when we were talking about the issue 
earlier your comments made me think we were talking part one, 
past one another, pardon, past one another. Can you provide us 
with the details of what ED is planning to do, whether you can 
tell us when it is going to do it, but what are you planning to 
do?
    Secretary Cardona. Sure. We recently announced, Ranking 
Member, the Fresh Start Program to allow borrowers who are 
either in default or delinquent in their payments to have the 
benefit of a fresh start, so that they can get back on, and it 
would not harm their credit score, and their ability to move on 
financially.
    We have announced that. I am not sure if that is what you 
are referencing.
    Ms. Foxx. Yes. As I have brought up to you earlier, that is 
going to cause a major problem with credit, with people who put 
together the credit scores and credit histories and may indeed 
harm those people from getting loans for other things in the 
future. We do not believe you have the authorization to do most 
anything of what you are doing, so we will continue to press 
you under what authorization you are doing what you are doing, 
and I thank the gentlelady for yielding, and Mr. Chairman, I 
yield back to her.
    Chairman Scott. The gentlelady yields back. Thank you. The 
gentlelady from Minnesota, Ms. Omar, the gentlelady from 
Michigan, Ms. Stevens.
    Ms. Stevens. Ms. Stevens is present. Thank you, Mr. Chair, 
and thank you, Mr. Secretary for coming to speak with us. I 
very much appreciate the opportunities I have had to discuss my 
passion around helping the 200,000 COVID-19 orphans in the 
United States of America, and what we are going to do to help 
them.
    I also deeply appreciate you coming before this committee 
as we are examining this year's budget. It is a profound and 
deep irony that this committee, which has some of the greatest 
opportunities to benefit the young people of America, had to 
take a vote last week in a committee markup on Congressman 
Johanna Hayes' bill to invest in mental health resources for 
college students.
    We had to take a vote on an amendment that would strip the 
protections for LGBTQ students, and it is further ironic that 
that is the priority of my colleagues on the other side of the 
aisle, when we have yet again witnessed another tragic and 
horrible shooting, and yes, we pray for, we honor, we mourn 
with those families, of the 19 students.
    I am not sure, Mr. Secretary, if you have had a chance to 
hear the testimonial, the witness statement from the young boy 
who survived that mass shooting, but everything we are doing as 
lawmakers does not make sense if it is not prioritizing the 
safety of our students, and we are failing at that, and I know, 
Mr. Secretary, that this is a pain for you--a pain point for 
you, a pain for your heart.
    I know that in the Cabinet of President Biden you are 
trying to do everything you can, and we will continue to 
support you in that effort. The misguided attempts of our 
colleagues on the other side of the aisle, all 17, who voted to 
strip away protections of LGBTQ students at the college level 
seeking mental health when we have gun violence after gun 
violence, and by the way they do not take the votes, even to 
study gun violence in our schools.
    Inner agency efforts to promote safety Mr. Secretary are 
paramount. I wanted to ask you about a passion point of mine 
which is around the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Act, IDEA funding, as we know the Fiscal Year 202023 budget, a 
3.3 billion dollar increase for IDEA grants to states, the 
largest 2 year increase ever for the program, and an amount 
that puts us on the path to fully funding IDEA, the $250 
million for IDEA Part D to support the pipeline of special 
education teachers, and personnel, which is so, so important.
    I was just wondering, Mr. Secretary, if you could lend us 
some of your time in speaking to why these significant 
increases in funding for IDEA are needed?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that, Congresswoman 
Stevens. Let me just put an exclamation point if I could. 60 
percent of our LGBTQ youth who wanted mental healthcare just 
last year did not have access to it. This is a group of 
students that has told us repeatedly the pandemic has increased 
the anxiety, the trauma, so thank you for sharing that.
    IDEA grants, let me tell you as a principal, as a teacher, 
as a school district leader, the work to make sure that all 
students have access to high-quality learning through 
individualized educational plans, based on the different 
abilities that our students have is critical. Many times, these 
plans are what allow for additional para-educators to support 
students, assisted technology.
    It gives students the ability to speak and speech services, 
so for us this is fundamental. I will just be brief in the next 
part. The pandemic exacerbated gaps between our students with 
disabilities, and our other students, and we have heard loud 
and clear from parents that they need more now, so this money 
is critical.
    Ms. Stevens. Yes. Well, I think to everyone watching back 
home for this very important hearing, it is very clear who is 
standing for all students, who is making sure that we are 
pushing for equal funding for IDEA, for full funding for IDEA, 
which is a critical part of my mission on behalf of Oakland 
County, and as a Representative who has brought attention to 
this topic through town halls and what not, and thank you, Mr. 
Secretary too, for the datapoint because it is sad when we have 
to take votes, which by the way many of our colleagues on the 
other side of the aisle weren't even present for that vote.
    When you cannot even take the steps to invest in mental 
health for LGBTQ and also cannot do the basic work to keep 
students safe. Thank you so much Mr. Chair, great hearing, and 
I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman from Utah, Mr. 
Owens.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you, thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. 
Secretary, and I would like to add a quick response to your 
opening statement. I am one who has benefited throughout my 
life from talking prayers (inaudible)--and represent this great 
nation, a nation based on Judeo-Christian values, we should 
never present our co-Americans with a false notion it is too 
late, and too uncool, to have faith, prayers and God for each 
other.
    We are one nation under God, it is the one way to reconnect 
with those experiencing dark times, and I am sure the community 
of Uvalde would really appreciate it. Mr. Secretary, over the 
past year the price of gasoline in Utah has increased more than 
37 percent, between Utah's open enrollment in public schools 
and charter schools, many parents in my district drive their 
children to school outside of the neighborhood.
    Families accessing school choice are not wealthy and are 
struggling to keep up with inflation and rising transportation 
costs. I have heard from several schools in my district that 
have drops in the student attendance, for in part due to higher 
costs at the pump. We are told inflation is (inaudible), and 
yet the cost of living for families increased last month by 8.3 
percent, which is knowledge that the inflation is negatively 
impacting the choice of school education for students and their 
parents.
    Secretary Cardona. I did not hear the question there. I 
heard you sharing about the cost of inflation.
    Mr. Owens. Would you acknowledge that inflation is 
negatively impacting the choice of school education for 
students and their parents?
    Secretary Cardona. I do not have information on that. I do 
recognize the challenge that inflation has caused on all 
aspects of life. Whether or not it has resulted in lessening 
school choice, you know, I am hearing what you are sharing with 
me, and I recognize that this is happening in your community, 
but I do not have any other information that tells me that this 
is in other communities.
    Mr. Owens. Just know that across the country parents have 
to get in their car and drive that distance to make sure their 
kids' education, it is impacting all parents who care that 
much, and I think investing in children that way. Okay. Like 
you, I was devastated to watch the events in Texas unfold.
    I was dismayed to see how some Members of Congress, and 
other elected officials took such a harsh political line so 
quickly. I speak on behalf of many of my colleagues who want to 
invest in the conversation on this topic. I would be happy to 
sit down and discuss what we can do to help schools address 
these security issues.
    Recently I looked into what school safety programs exist, 
which are presently funded by the Federal Government. I learned 
that we had related programs in several agencies, and those 
programs are to address prevention, mitigation, and response, 
and recovery. Mr. Secretary, your agency implements a lot of 
these programs. Can you tell us the current status of school 
safety programs under your jurisdiction, what guidance you have 
issued to address school safety with other agencies to assure 
that the guidance is responsive, correct, and also coordinated?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you very much. I appreciate your 
sentiment about wanting to partner with us, and I welcome an 
opportunity for my team to meet with yours to discuss this 
because I agree with you. It should be bipartisan, and we 
should be working together on this.
    We have a team that is developing more strategies, bringing 
together different strategies from across the country. We have 
the Project SERV, which is school emergency reduction of 
violence funds and team that has been in contact already with 
this community in Texas, and will continue to be.
    Part of this team's work is to lift up practices of what is 
happening across the country. It is an ongoing process, but 
happy to have my team meet with yours to hear your thoughts, 
and to work together on this.
    Mr. Owens. Okay thank you. I just want to wrap up with 
something we talked about earlier. I agree with the concerns of 
an answer that you gave to one of my colleagues earlier about 
keeping secrets from parents. It was in all due respect, a 
pretty different, or weird answer.
    My parents, my dad and my mom were both educators, but 
never would they have suggested that a teacher would parent a 
children who are not theirs. They are keeping secrets from 
parents regarding their children's physical and mental health 
being a secret that they are not learning ABCs, but instead are 
going through indoctrination of gender transitioning, is 
extremely disturbing.
    To be honest with you, it is hard to believe that any 
father or mother (inaudible)--would be okay with secrets being 
kept from them regarding the health and welfare of their 
children. With that, I want to yield any remaining time I have 
to Dr. Foxx.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Burgess. Mr. Secretary, what 
specific language in the ESEA authorizes you to add additional 
requirements to the charter school program? We think the 
statute is clear about your requirement to consult with charter 
school officials before developing rules and regulations, and 
you are not authorized to do it without that consultation.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. I know the time is up, but I 
do want to respond. This is for discretionary funds, and there 
are proposals that we have.
    Ms. Foxx. You have discretion, you have authorization under 
the statutes because they are discretionary funds? Is that your 
answer?
    Secretary Cardona. We have authority to make proposals. 
Happy to discuss.
    Ms. Foxx. You are adding additional requirements to the 
charter school program. What is the authorization in the 
statute?
    Secretary Cardona. What we are trying to do is increase 
accountability, engagement, which are all things that I think I 
have heard from you are important in education. I think there 
is a misconception that we do not support quality public 
charter schools. I want to be very clear that that is not the 
case.
    Ms. Foxx. Well you are not answering the question. Thank 
you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Owens. I yield back my time. Thank you.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady from New Mexico, 
Ms. Leger Fernandez.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Chairman Scott and 
Secretary Cardona, for getting today's hearing, by 
acknowledging the 19 families who will not be telling stories 
to their babies tonight, who will not see their child go on to 
middle school, or take pictures of them before their first 
school dance.
    Who will not get to help them decide which college to 
attend, or take them to college, or what their life plans are. 
It is not just them, but we know that Uvalde, what we have 
learned of it, is a tight-knit community, and the whole 
community is suffering.
    (Speaking in Spanish)
    My constituents and I are sick of inaction. The House 
passed multiple bills to address the gun violence crisis, some 
of them even with some republican votes, bipartisan, and all we 
need is ten republican Senators who have the courage to stand 
with the nearly 90 percent of Americans who support sensible 
gun safety legislation.
    We can use the help of more republican House members. The 
republicans on this committee and others who are going to put 
our children as a priority instead of the gun lobby because we 
cannot effectively teach our Nation's children if everybody is 
not safe in those schools.
    Secretary Cardona, thank you for the work that you are 
doing with regards to safety and for your fairly measured and 
intelligent responses today. I want to talk about minority 
serving institutions because every institution of higher 
education in my district is a minority serving institution, and 
the majority of those are Hispanic serving institutions, or 
HSIs.
    In the wake of COVID-19, HSIs are being asked to do more 
with less as they continue to educate and serve their students 
in buildings which are not adequate, with inadequate funding 
because we all know that HSIs are severely underfunded. I 
noticed that $236.7 million dollar request in your budget, and 
question I think it continues to be insufficient, and maybe the 
needs of the 559 HSIs and the 5.1 million students they educate 
and serve.
    Secretary, how do you envision closing the disproportionate 
inequitable gap for the 559 HSIs with a request for Title V 
Part A at $236.7 million?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for your remarks, and for your 
passion around not only Uvalde, but the responsibility that we 
have to protect our babies. Hispanic serving institutions, 
TCCUs, HBCUs, they all provide tremendous value, they punch 
above their weight, and in many cases their institutions do not 
have the level of funds that they need to keep up with research 
and development, and make sure that they can continue to grow.
    We are proud that in this new budget proposal there's 450 
million dollars proposed for new initiatives to expand research 
and development and infrastructure at minority serving 
institutions such as HSIs as well. We recognize, and the 
President has been very clear from day one, the importance of 
these institutions, and how we need to make sure that they have 
the funds needed to not only serve the students during the 
pandemic, but also grow for their institutions as well.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you. I also want to discuss an 
issue that is brought up to me wherever I go, and that is 
education workforce shortages, especially the need to recruit a 
diverse workforce here in New Mexico, it is Native American, 
and Latino bilingual education speakers. We do not have a lot 
of time, but how are you going to be working to support states 
and school districts in strengthening and diversifying the 
educator workforce?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. My proposal does ask for 
funds there, so I am going to be very specific. I want pipeline 
programs in our high schools. I want high school students 
getting high school credit and college credits and be connected 
to a 4-year school, so that that 4-year school when they 
graduate, they are ready to go back into that community that 
served them so well to become teachers.
    I want to use the funds to initiate programs that have 
apprenticeships around teacher preparation programs, a 
mentorship program to retain our teachers too. It is not just 
getting them, it is keeping them in the profession, and I want 
to make sure that we are supporting our teachers and elevating 
the profession so more people want to go into it.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Secretary Cardona, and that 
issue of getting them from the community because then they'll 
stay in the community is so key. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 
Thank you for this hearing.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. My colleague from Virginia, Mr. 
Good.
    Mr. Good. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for being 
here, Mr. Secretary. Mr. Secretary, I realize it is difficult 
when you are on the losing side of every issue, and the truth 
about your policies are not popular with the American people, 
but I hope you can also appreciate that it is our job to 
exercise oversight on behalf of Americans, and expose the 
harmful impact of these policies, so you are succinct and 
truthful answers would be most appreciated.
    In your testimony, Mr. Secretary, you said that you were 
calling for more COVID funding for schools. Why should we do 
this when schools are requesting more time to spend the 
previously allocated funds, and some are even spending them on 
things like football fields and weight rooms.
    Secretary Cardona. With regard to American Rescue Plan use 
of funds, I can tell you I am proud of what I have seen when I 
visited the 32 states. Schools were able to reopen better 
ventilation systems. I visited White Plains, New York, and 
their school was able to open as quickly as they could.
    Mr. Good. Okay. Reclaiming my time. I am not asking what 
they might have used it for, I am saying why in the world would 
we give them more money when they have not spent the money that 
is already been allocated? Some of them are using it for things 
that obviously have nothing to do with the virus situation.
    It does not cost anything to stop doing the things that 
harmed our children over these past 2 years. Switching to 
student loans for a moment, the Biden administration's 
moratorium on student loans has already cost taxpayers some 100 
billion dollars before any ill-conceived effort this fall in a 
desperate attempt to buy votes that we might try to forgive 
student loans this fall.
    Who do you think should pay a person's student loan? Who 
should that debt be transferred to?
    Secretary Cardona. Congressman, if there are cases where 
you think money is not being used, please work with our team 
because we want to make sure that we are following that.
    Mr. Good. Who do you think should pay a person's student 
loan if they do not want to pay it, or who should that debt be 
transferred to?
    Secretary Cardona. I think our loan forgiveness work this 
year is something that has helped many Americans----
    Mr. Good. Answer me specifically, who do you think should 
pay a person's student loan if they do not want to pay it, or 
they cannot pay it, or they just wish they did not have it, and 
who should that debt be transferred to?
    Secretary Cardona. I am not sure. The person who took out 
the loan should be paying the loan. If they were not misled--
    Mr. Good. The person who took out the loan should pay the 
loan.
    Secretary Cardona. Correct.
    Mr. Good. Okay. You agree we should not have somebody who 
did not go to college should not have to pay someone else's 
student loan, is that correct?
    Secretary Cardona. I think I know where you are going with 
this, and what I would want to say to that is there was poor 
oversight.
    Mr. Good. Okay. Do you think someone who did not go to 
college should be forced through their tax to pay somebody 
else's student loan?
    Secretary Cardona. There was poor oversight, and I 
believe----
    Mr. Good. Do you think somebody who did not go to college 
should be forced to pay somebody else's student loan? Do not 
tell me about oversight. Do you think somebody who did not go 
to college should be forced to pay somebody else's student 
loan?
    Secretary Cardona. I see where you are going with the 
question.
    Mr. Good. How about somebody who worked their way through 
school so they would not have student loans, should they have 
to pay somebody else's student loan?
    Secretary Cardona. The public service loan forgiveness 
program----
    Mr. Good. Okay. How about somebody who has already paid off 
their student loan. They just doubled down, they worked hard, 
they worked two or three jobs, they paid off their student 
loan. I mean you do know where the money comes from right? You 
do know the money is from the American people? You realize 
government has the money, right?
    You cannot forgive student loans, we like to use that term. 
You realize that it is just transferred to somebody else. My 
question is who should it be transferred to, or who should be 
forced to pay for that? Especially when 60 percent of these 
student loan balances are held by high income owners who went 
to grad school, and so it poses a disproportionate impact 
toward high income earners if we forgive all student loans, so 
who should have to pay that?
    Secretary Cardona. The bipartisan public service loan 
forgiveness is an example of a loan forgiveness program that 
was bipartisan passed and was mismanaged.
    Mr. Good. Okay, well thank you. That is what I was 
referring to earlier, I just would like you to say the answer 
on the impact of this administration's policies, and I have got 
a Federal Student Loan Integrity Act that I have sponsored 
along with Jim Banks who is on this committee that would 
prohibit you from extending the moratorium on student loan 
repayments at least, let alone forgiving.
    School choice. You said today that you support school 
choice. You said that during someone else's earlier 
questioning, and that parents should be able to decide where 
their kids go to school. Will you help us advocate for Congress 
to pass school choice legislation?
    Secretary Cardona. I do not push for specific legislation. 
I ask that you work in collaboration----
    Mr. Good. Could you support legislation that would support 
school choice? For example, I have got H.R. 3704, the Choice 
Act, which would allow struggling families a choice of where 
their educational dollars go, they would follow their children 
to the school, or educational opportunity of their choice, or a 
529 savings account. Are you in favor of such things?
    Secretary Cardona. I am in favor of making sure public 
schools have access to adequate funding, so that all students 
have an option, including----
    Mr. Good. I have another question for you if I may.
    Secretary Cardona. I would like to finish my response on 
the previous question first.
    Mr. Good. Have you gotten an update from regarding Attorney 
General Garland's memo about going after school parents? Have 
you gotten an update on that? We are having trouble getting 
answers on what the status of that review is, have you got an 
update on that?
    Secretary Cardona. I support a choice, but I also do not 
support----
    Mr. Good. Have you gotten an update on the targeting of 
school parents based on October 4 memo from AG Garland?
    Secretary Cardona. My staff might have received information 
on that. I have not, but I would be happy to have my team reach 
out to you if you have questions about the roll out event.
    Mr. Good. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Mr. Chairman, I yield 
back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady from 
Pennsylvania, Ms. Wild.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, 
Secretary Cardona, for being here today, and I apologize for 
the tone and attitude that you have been experiencing from some 
of our questioners. Dr. Cardona, the COVID-19 pandemic has 
changed the life of every American. and has had an especially 
dramatic effect on our Nation's young people, and I have to 
tell you, I am candidly very proud to have helped in the 
American Rescue Plan last spring, which sent 130 billion 
dollars in Federal funding to schools and students.
    Schools in Pennsylvania,--I represent Pennsylvania 7, 
received more than five billion dollars through this law, and 
schools just in my home at the Lehigh Valley received hundreds 
of millions of dollars. I am very proud that this funding is 
being used today to safely keep schools physically open and to 
get students back on track.
    I just, I have to say as a matter of pride, I want to tell 
you a couple of examples. First of all, the Easton Area School 
District in my district has hired new staff to provide 
supplemental instruction to help students catch up on their 
academics. That school district has also purchased new 
technology for students, more library books, and more STEM 
materials.
    The Bethlehem Area School District has paid for new HVAC 
systems for three buildings to improve air quality and keep 
students safer in their classrooms. That district has also 
hired new instructional coaches to improve students' math and 
literacy skills, and to support their mental health needs by 
providing extra social and emotional learning.
    The Allentown School District, the most distressed public 
school district that we have, has paid for facilities upgrades 
and HVAC improvements which were deeply necessary because some 
buildings in the district were built in the 1800's. In 
addition, the district has prioritized programs to address 
learning loss, including academic recovery and acceleration 
efforts.
    I am just proud to share these stories with you to 
emphasize the ways in which the funding that was brought into 
law as a result of the American Rescue Plan has continued to 
support our students and educators.
    Dr. Cardona, what I would like to do is have you highlight 
some additional ways that you are aware of that schools and 
educators across the Nation have been using ARP money to enable 
safe in-person learning, and make up for lost instructional 
time, and I do not mean to put you on the spot, but if any 
cases particularly come to mind I would love to hear them.
    Secretary Cardona. I will tell you I visited New Mexico 
recently, and I was in a high school, and I spoke to a student. 
We had a roundtable. This was really pointed for me. This young 
man said, ``My life was spiraling out of control during the 
pandemic.'' His mother died due to COVID, and he said that he 
was engaging in very bad activity and got to a point 1 day 
where there was going to be an act of violence committed toward 
another student.
    If it were not for the restorative circles that the school 
did with a staff member whose salary is paid for by the 
American Rescue Plan, that he might have committed that act. He 
said to me literally, ``This saved my life.'' Now he is on a 
path to mental health support and graduation. That is one 
example.
    I visited Oregon. I saw summer programs with double and 
triple the size, the number of students who are benefiting from 
social interaction. These are students who for the year prior 
were working on a laptop, or on a device, and did not have 
social interaction. We know the importance of social 
interaction for young children.
    I mentioned White Plains before. The improved air flow 
allowed the schools to reopen quicker. After school programs 
for students to get reading support because the reading 
instruction was not what it should have been during the 
pandemic. Mental health counselors, New York is hiring hundreds 
of school social workers for their schools with the American 
Rescue Plan dollars.
    Ms. Wild. I am going to stop you there for a second, 
Secretary, because you just--you have been talking about mental 
health, and my next question was going to be about that. I 
think it is wonderful the way states and districts have been 
able to use the ARP funds to implement trauma informed 
practices and support students' social and emotional and mental 
health needs.
    Can you tell this committee why this extra funding support 
is necessary, and why will it continue to be needed for the 
next few years?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that second part of the 
question. This is not a one-time thing. Mental health needs 
were greater before the pandemic, but now I mean research study 
after research study shows that it is at a point now of crisis. 
The Surgeon General called it a crisis in our schools, a crisis 
in our country, the mental health needs.
    We have anxiety levels up. Suicide rates are up. If we want 
to protect lives we need to look at mental health supports, not 
only as a fix for the pandemic, but an underlying foundation of 
successful schools that meet the needs of students 
holistically.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you very much. I would love to talk to you 
further about this, but my time has run out. Mr. Chairman, I 
yield back. Thank you for the time, and thank you, Secretary.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady from Michigan, 
Mrs. McClain is not on the screen. The gentlelady from 
Tennessee, Ms. Harshbarger.
    Mrs. Harshbarger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking 
Member Foxx, and thank you, Secretary, for being here to answer 
questions. I want to followup with the representatives to find 
this line of questioning. Since you said no to having anything 
to do with soliciting the letter requesting that the DOJ 
investigate concerned parents as domestic terrorists, will you 
instead commit to call upon Attorney General Garland to rescind 
his memo asking the FBI to investigate parents? That is just a 
yes or no.
    Secretary Cardona. If you have questions for the DOJ, 
please reach out to the DOJ about their letters.
    Mrs. Harshbarger. Okay. I assume that is a no, but let me 
turn my attention to your written testimony today. Mr. 
Secretary, you only used the word parent once in your 
testimony, even then not in any way that would indicate how 
important parents' involvement is in their children's 
education.
    Do you believe parents should have a role in the education 
of their children, yes or no.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. I believe if you will allow me to 
followup I can share with you what we have done in the last 
year.
    Mrs. Harshbarger. Well, that is my next question. What role 
do you think parents have in determining appropriate curriculum 
for their children at our schools?
    Secretary Cardona. I have always said parents are their 
child's first and most influential teachers. We only play a 
supporting role in the education system. As a parent myself it 
is critically important that I am engaged, and that I am 
involved in the process. I want to be very clear about that.
    When we asked for states to submit plans on the American 
Rescue Plan, how are they going to use the money, stakeholder 
engagement was a requirement, even though it wasn't passed by 
Congress, that it was a requirement, we required that states 
provide that.
    We have had conversations of more than 8,400 parents in 1 
year because we want to hear from them. It is not just talk, we 
have done that. In terms of curriculum, I do believe parents 
engagement is critical for the holistic experience of children, 
including topics like curriculum, and that is why we have 
Boards of Education set up, made up in many cases by parents, 
and that is why they should have public comment portions.
    I support that, and as a former assistant superintendent, I 
value the input of those local parents, the benefit of 
curriculum, but also the challenges that they felt the school 
was providing.
    Mrs. Harshbarger. Well, you know that goes back to the 
Attorney General and the letter sent you know by the DOJ. 
Evidentially they do not think that parents should have a 
bigger role in that curriculum, and I believe that parents 
should have a bigger role in the curriculum their children are 
learning, and honestly, you know I am sick of bureaucrats 
telling us what is inappropriate or appropriate for our own 
children.
    If it were up to me ,sir, I have sworn I would just do away 
with the Department of Ed and Labor all together and give the 
authority back to the states. That is just me. In the time 
left, I want to yield to Representative and Ranking Member 
Foxx.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Representative Harshbarger. Mr. 
Secretary, FSA and CFPB are clearly in regular communications 
as their actions and press strategies are obviously 
coordinated. I am not asking, I am simply observing a fact. 
What I do want to know though is why you are not coordinating 
or providing the same clear and consistent guidance to 
borrowers and your contractors about how the various waiver 
programs and the return to repayment are supposed to work.
    I am not talking similar or close. I mean the same exact 
guidance, so everyone understands the rule of the road. You or 
CFPB cannot come back months or years later and change your 
minds. Borrowers, as well as your contracted partners deserve 
detailed and consistent guidance from all government agencies.
    Mr. Secretary, is the lack of communication a failure of 
your department to develop detailed plans before putting out 
flashy press releases? Or is this vague, deceptive or non-
existent guidance intentional because the full plan is not 
actually known at the time of flashy press kits?
    Secretary Cardona. Dr. Foxx, with all due respect, I think 
those are two bad options that I have. I could tell you we want 
to work with you, and if there are ways that you think that we 
need to improve communication, as you said at the beginning, 
let us work together. As I said when I sent you that letter you 
know 7, 8 months ago, there is so much coming out, let us work 
together on the things we can improve together.
    I believe we are in this situation because of poor 
information, and we are working really hard to be clear with 
our borrowers, to provide clarity so that they are not misled, 
like so many places misled them, which is why we are doing 
borrower defense the way we are.
    Ms. Foxx. Well maybe it is because your contracted partners 
and the loan servicers are not getting clear information from 
the department on how to handle it. You should not be bypassing 
those people because they are the partners you have to help you 
do it. You cannot do this through the department. You 
contracted with the people, and you are treating them very, 
very poorly.
    Chairman Scott. Ms. Foxx, you are on mute.
    Ms. Foxx. Yes, I am sorry. I yield to the gentlewoman from 
Tennessee.
    Mrs. Harshbarger. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield 
back.
    Chairman Scott. The gentlelady yields back. The gentleman 
from New York, Mr. Jones, gentlelady from North Carolina, Ms. 
Manning.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, 
Secretary Cardona, for all your work, and for your patience 
today. Before turning to my questions, I want to first response 
to my republican colleague's claim that school districts are 
not spending COVID-19 relief funding.
    The Federal Government has awarded 100 percent elementary 
and secondary school emergency relief funding across all 50 
states, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico. As of March 
23, 2022, approximately 91 percent of the CARES Act ESSER funds 
have been drawn down or spent by states and districts.
    Each week more funds are drawn down. According to submitted 
State and district plans, which are required by the American 
Rescue Plan, ESSER funds are being used to implement evidence-
based practices that address learning loss, and support 
students' social, emotional, and mental health. I would like to 
point out for my republican colleagues, that focusing on 
spending data alone is misleading.
    In a recent report the nonpartisan Government 
Accountability Office found that it is important to consider a 
State or district's financial commitments or obligations to 
paint a more complete picture. For example, schools that have 
used ESSER funds to hire teachers or school counselors, will 
spend ESSER money each time payroll is paid from now until 
2024.
    Likewise, many school districts are required to pay out 
contracts only after all services have been rendered. A 
district that has a yearlong contract with a tutoring company 
might spend ESSER funds to pay out the contract at the end of 
the year. The Federal Government has obligated COVID-19 relief 
funding, and as we have heard today, states and districts are 
using these funds to help schools recover.
    Now I would like to turn to my questions. Mr. Secretary, as 
we know this pandemic has taken a tremendous toll on our 
Nation's youth. There's been a 25 percent increase in pediatric 
emergency room admissions for mental health cases since the 
start of the pandemic, so we know addressing mental health 
needs has become increasingly important for our Nation's youth.
    That is why I have introduced H.R. 5526, the Improving 
Mental Health Wellness in Schools Act to add mental health 
education to existing guidelines for local school wellness 
policies, and to increase resources for more mental health 
providers in our schools. We know these resources are 
desperately needed to help our students. I have heard it from 
the superintendents in my district, North Carolina 6.
    We have also been hearing Mr. Secretary, from our 
educators, our first responders, and our healthcare workers, 
that we simply do not have enough mental health providers in 
our country. I was extremely pleased to see that the 
President's Fiscal Year 2023 budget proposal includes a billion 
dollars for the creation of a new grant program to increase the 
number of licensed mental health professionals in our schools.
    Can you speak to the importance of this proposed funding, 
and talk about how the department will work to ensure that this 
program has its intended effect?
    Secretary Cardona. Sure, thank you very much, and I 
appreciate the comments you made earlier about how districts 
are actually using the money, and how you obligate it you do 
not spend it all in 1 day. When the services are done that is 
when they get the payment.
    Yes, thank you for bringing up the fact that you know this 
budget does propose long-term remedies to problems that we are 
dealing with now, not just short-term remedies. What it does is 
provides funds to create programs that help develop the mental 
health personnel that we know we are going to need moving 
forward. It is not only embracing the need for more mental 
health support workers through some of the other funding, but 
investing in programs that will lead to sustainable production 
of highly qualified mental health support staff.
    We are proud of that, and we are hopeful that this could 
really launch model programs that could be replicated 
throughout the country, not only with mental health, but 
special education, bilingual education. There are so many areas 
that are shortage areas, and I am pleased that this budget does 
put funds to try to address that problem.
    Ms. Manning. Mr. Secretary, I am also pleased to see that 
the President's budget requests an increase of 752 million 
dollars over Fiscal Year 2021 levels for HBCUs, MSIs and TCCUs, 
including $450 million dollar initiative to expand research and 
development infrastructure at these institutions. I have three 
excellent HBCUs and an excellent MSI in my district. Can you 
talk for just 10 seconds I have left about the importance of 
that funding.
    Secretary Cardona. I only have 4 seconds. They are punching 
above their weight, and this is a recognition that education is 
the great equalizer in our country.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Mr. Chairman, I 
yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Do we need a 10-minute break?
    Secretary Cardona. Are you asking me, sir?
    Chairman Scott. Yes.
    Secretary Cardona. We could go a few more if that is all 
right with you.
    Chairman Scott. Okay, thank you. The gentlelady from 
Illinois, Ms. Miller.
    Mrs. Miller. Yes. Mr. Secretary, during the BLM riots in 
2020, many left-wing school districts ended their contracts 
with police departments and removed school resource officers 
from schools as part of the left's defund the police movement. 
Does the Biden administration now believe that the defund the 
police movement was a mistake, and officers do belong in 
schools?
    Secretary Cardona. I have never mentioned anything about 
defunding police.
    Mrs. Miller. Sir, for 2 years the democrats have supported 
defunding the police. Because of their defund the police 
movement, school resource officers have been removed from 
schools--Minneapolis, Portland, Denver, Seattle School 
Districts--removed police from schools.
    I want to know, do you now say it was a mistake, and that 
officers do belong in schools?
    Mr. Cardona. As a former Assistant Superintendent in a 
district that had school resource officers that worked really 
closely with our educators, our students, we found there to be 
great value there. As I said earlier, I have never commented 
defund the police, so.
    Mrs. Miller. Well, the democrats definitely supported 
defunding the police for 2 years. They painted on the sidewalks 
of burning cities, they shouted out while burning down police 
stations in Minneapolis. Vice-President Harris herself raised 
money to bail out the rioters, and your favorite leftist TV 
stations have covered it all, all Americans saw it.
    Now what I want to know, you represent the Biden 
administration. Has the Biden administration changed their 
stance? Do they still support defunding the police, or do they 
now say school resource officers belong in the schools? We 
would like to know.
    Secretary Cardona. I am not sure if you were present at the 
State of the Union, but the President said we need to fund the 
police more, not defund the police. I recall that sitting 
there, and I felt pretty strongly about that message there.
    Mrs. Miller. Right. I call that hypocrisy. I taught my 
children that you know what you do is more important than what 
you say, so following I will assume then that you are saying 
that you still support defunding the police, the Biden 
administration, and that you do not support having these 
resource officers in our schools.
    Moving on, Mr. Secretary, this week outrageously it was 
revealed that the National School Boards Association wanted the 
Biden administration to use the military--the military, to 
prevent parents from attending school board meetings to speak 
out in opposition to the Biden education agenda. Do you believe 
that President Biden should use the military or the FBI's 
domestic terrorism unit to prevent parents from opposing his 
policies at school board meetings?
    Secretary Cardona. I believe we should fund police with 
adequate supports, so please do not mischaracterize my 
responses, which I thought were pretty clear. With regard to 
your question----
    Mrs. Miller. You are saying then that the Biden 
administration has changed their stance? They now support 
funding the police, and they have changed their stance, they do 
support putting resource officers in the schools? I am so glad 
to hear that. I am glad you changed your mind because we all 
want our children to be safe, thank you.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, we do.
    Mrs. Miller. Well, like I say hypocrisy is when the actions 
do not followup with the words. My next question has to do with 
this past week, the National Schools Boards Association now has 
revealed that they want the Biden administration to use the 
military to prevent parents from attending school board 
meetings. Do you believe that President Biden should use the 
military or the FBI's domestic terrorism unit to prevent 
parents from opposing his policies at school board meetings?
    Secretary Cardona. Parents should have access to school 
board meetings and their voice does matter. If you have 
questions for the Department of Justice, I would suggest you 
direct them toward the Department of Justice.
    Mrs. Miller. Yes, but the Biden administration did send a 
memo authorizing the FBI to go after parents for showing up at 
school board meetings, so do you support, or not support using 
the FBI against parents?
    Secretary Cardona. I support parents having their voices 
heard, especially during this pandemic, when they know their 
children better than anyone else. We should work as partners, 
and that is what I support, and that is what everyone at this 
department supports. You can tell by the fact that we have 
listened to over 8,000 parents and will continue to do so.
    Mrs. Miller. We all know that the whole point of that DOJ 
memo was to send a message to parents, to scare them from 
showing up. Was that not the point? Well, what was the point of 
the memo then?
    Secretary Cardona. You would have to ask the DOJ. What I 
will tell you is that we welcome parents' input now more than 
ever.
    Mrs. Miller. Yes. Well, you also said parents should not be 
the primary stakeholder in children's education. Mr. Secretary, 
to close up here every time you have appeared before this 
committee I have asked you questions about parents' rights in 
education because the Biden administration is launching a 
coordinated assault against parents' rights, and the ability of 
parents to make the best educational decisions for their 
children.
    We saw the result of your woke educational agenda in 
Virginia, where parents were outraged by the Biden 
administration's policies, and they loudly stood up for 
parental rights, and I have to say that I look forward to 
parents across the country sending you the same message very 
soon, and with that I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. The young lady's time is expired, and we 
will now take a 10-minute break. Banyon, if you can put 10 
minutes on the clock, thank you.
    (Break)
    Chairman Scott. Let us see, the next person in line on the 
screen is the gentleman from New York, Mr. Bowman.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, for holding 
this important meeting. Before I get to my questions, first of 
all thank you, Mr. Secretary, for being with us today. Before I 
get to my questions, I just want to mention how impressive your 
stellar career has been in education, Mr. Secretary. You were a 
teacher in our schools, you taught the youngest and most 
vulnerable among us.
    You have been a school administrator, you have been a 
district superintendent, you have been commissioner of 
education for a State, and now you sit here as a Secretary of 
Education. Your career has been stellar. You have served our 
kids admirably. You are one of the only State leaders to open 
schools safely, and I want to thank you for that, even prior to 
the full American Rescue Plan, you opened schools safely, so 
thank you for your stellar service and stellar career. I just 
wanted to mention that.
    Mr. Secretary, I wanted to ask a question about common-
sense gun reform. You know democrats have passed common sense 
gun reform in the House over many years, and gun reform 
continues to be blocked in the Senate. Can you speak briefly to 
how common-sense gun reform, which would keep assault rifles 
out of the hands of those who are most dangerous, how would 
that help decrease the amount of mass shootings and keep kids 
alive and in our schools across the country?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the remarks earlier. You 
know, common sense, if more guns mean we are safe, we should be 
the safest country in the world. I feel like in order to 
protect our students there is no easy answer. We need to work 
together on it. A recent poll found that over 80 percent of the 
folks in our country agree or support with some level of red 
flag provision, you know, and 81 percent of Americans support 
background checks for private gun sales and gun show sales.
    Like the American people, both sides agree that common 
sense actions are needed now. We are becoming desensitized. I 
said at the beginning, we cannot normalize this. We cannot ask 
our educators to be going in, in addition to addressing the 
disparities that were made worse, now to shoulder this. We need 
to do better.
    Mr. Bowman. 100 percent, and as a former educator myself, I 
know you are grieving today for the 21 lives that were lost in 
Texas the other day, and I know you still grieve for what 
happened in Sandy Hook, and you grieve for Columbine, and you 
grieve for Virginia Tech, and you grieve for the 3,656 school 
shootings that have happened since Sandy Hook.
    I want to thank you again for your service. I have another 
question about student debt. As you know, American borrowers 
across this country hold more than 1.7 trillion in Federal 
student debt. I speak with constituents in my district, and so 
many of them carry student debt.
    It is our young people, and it is our elders. I frequently 
hear from constituents in their 60's and 70's who are still 
trying to pay off decades of old student debt. They have paid 
back far more than they ever borrowed because of compounding 
interest. This debt needs to be canceled. It has been 
predatory, and it is crushing.
    Looking forward, we absolutely need to have free public 
college and free community college in my opinion, but we also 
need to start by canceling student debt which has profited off 
of everyday Americans for far too long. Two quick questions. 
One, I would like to get more clarity around the 1.7 trillion 
plus in student debt.
    How much of the 1.7 trillion is made up of the principal 
balance, and how much is accrued interest? The second question 
is how many people have paid more than they originally 
borrowed, but still have a student debt balance because of 
interest?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the questions, and I agree 
with you. The system is broken. There are too many people that 
are afraid of even thinking about higher education because of 
the fear, and we have to fix the system. We have to be bold, 
and make sure that we are not there again in 5 years.
    Those two questions are very specific, and I do not want to 
venture to guess right now a number, but I will have my team 
followup with you on those very specific questions, but I think 
your point is well-made. There are people who are paying just 
interest, not even touching the principal, that is 
unacceptable.
    We have to do better with that, and while we cannot set 
interest rates--that is an act of Congress, we are putting 
together regulations that will improve this. We agree with you 
100 percent.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Next, we will hear from the 
gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Fitzgerald.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for being with 
us. Since I think the last time we visited some--then part of 
some discussions on the student loan issue, so I kind of wanted 
to go back to that. There are a couple of things I think I am 
hearing from constituents on that front, that I am not sure if 
the department has had the ability to gather data on, and I 
just listened to Representative Bowman kind of talking a little 
bit more about a deeper dive on you know where we are at.
    I think what I am hearing is the one thing that is out 
there that is probably not being directly addressed is--and it 
is kind of a nuance, it is the parent plus loans. It appears 
that many families throughout America have kind of this 
informal arrangement between the parent and the student where 
the student obviously approaches the parent to say is there any 
way that you can pick up the debt on this tuition bill?
    Then informally says, but do not worry about it, mom or 
dad, you know when it comes down to actually making the 
payments when I graduate you know, I will make the payments 
myself. There is kind of this informal arrangement, and I have 
no idea if you have any numbers on that, or you know if that is 
even tracked as to who is actually writing the check every 
month to pay off some of these loans? That would be kind of the 
first question I might ask you.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question, and as a 
parent who is now thinking about that, my own son, you know I 
recognize that this is something that many parents across the 
country are wondering, and I am sure in your district as well. 
I do not have specific information on that, but it is so 
nuanced that I would not dare to make a statement without 
having me verify it.
    What I will do is, Congressman Fitzgerald, have someone 
from my higher ed team discuss. If a parent is writing the 
check, what happens if the student qualifies for some loan 
forgiveness, and I think that is a very, very, valid question 
that I want to make sure I give you the right information on.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes. That is kind of--that leads to the 
second part of my question, which is as you do the expanded 
PSLF, you know it absolutely would be something that I would 
hope that the department would somehow be able to consider if 
there is some type of final calculation.
    That is without even you know making any judgments on how 
much forgiveness should there be or should there be forgiveness 
at all. What I will also--it is not news to you I do not think, 
but the other thing I have heard quite a bit when you talk to 
people about this issue is they are just frustrated by the 
interest rates.
    If there was some way of bringing that interest rate down, 
and I understand you have already made it clear that is an act 
of Congress, that certainly that would have just as dramatic 
impact on the overall situation nationwide as some forgiveness 
would be as part of PSLF. It would be another thing to 
consider.
    Let me just shift gears real quick. As a member of the 
Small Business Committee, one of the things that we are 
reminded of all the time is PPP loans, and it has been 
determined to be successful. PPP loans saved many small 
businesses throughout the Nation.
    The second part I would say is we are hearing from 
districts about some of the COVID relief funds, and whether it 
was part of the CARES Act. How are you guys doing on tracking 
that and making sure that districts--you know because you are 
hearing these stories out there that the money was misspent or 
misallocated.
    I know as a member of Small Business, we are having a very 
difficult time tracking how those funds were spent, and then 
the direct SBA loans that have been made, the claw back on some 
of those as a result of fraud and abuse is significant. This is 
a different arena, but it feels kind of the same, and that is 
why I would ask how the department is doing on tracking some of 
those funds.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for those questions. I 
remember the first part of the pandemic when I was in 
Connecticut, the Commissioner having conversations about PPP, 
and how we are making sure it is being used, and some of those 
investigations.
    With that experience, we wanted to at the Department of ED, 
make sure that we are putting in checks and balances. We have--
I think we have a robust system here. We have--every district 
has to submit a plan publicly. It has to be on their website. 
We have quarterly monitoring reviews.
    We created a program called ARP Paths, and it is another 
form of public accountability, so it is not only accountability 
to us, but more importantly to the parents, to the students, to 
the folks in the community. We do annual reporting also, and we 
are working closely with our Inspector General and auditors, to 
make sure they have all the information they need as they do 
their investigations as well.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you. I yield back, thank you, 
chairman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman's time has 
expired. Next the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Pocan.
    Mr. Pocan. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. 
Secretary, for being here. It is good to see you again. I also 
want to say thank you to Representative Fitzgerald for making 
Wisconsin proud, the way he asked questions. He may disagree 
with the Secretary, it was great. It was not MAGA open mic 
night, which the Secretary has had to endure a little too much 
of this afternoon, so hey, Fitz, thank you. You did Wisconsin 
proud, and I just want to point that out.
    I know a few people have said they have no words for what 
happened in Texas. I do. Dereliction of duty, of Congress and 
State legislatures to not act. Far too long these institutions 
have been afraid of the gun manufacturers and their lobby, NRA, 
rather than caring about the kids that we are supposed to 
protect in our schools.
    Again, Mr. Secretary, your moral outrage in the beginning 
of your remarks I appreciate it, and felt with you, and thank 
you for that. I want to ask you if I can get to two areas, but 
one specifically. We had a special hearing yesterday in 
Appropriations, talking about teacher shortages. I believe in 
your opening remarks you mentioned something about 350 million 
that might help go toward attracting and retaining teachers.
    We had a great list of witnesses. Some of the suggestions 
that came through were things like the Hawkins Center of 
Excellence, providing more support to grow your own programs, 
community schools to provide wrap around services, the teach 
grants. Could you just give us a little bit of a deep dive on 
what you are doing because in Wisconsin you know, we had a 
significant drop-off in people applying to our schools of 
education post some actions that happened a number of years ago 
in the legislature.
    In my Madison School District, which has been one of the 
most attractive districts for people, it used to be almost 
impossible to get in. Now sometimes they are getting two or 
three applications for an open position. We have got a real 
problem here, and I see it across the district. Love to hear 
what you are going to do in this area.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for acknowledging that. First 
and foremost we are going to lift the profession and really 
honor educators and make sure that we are listening to them as 
we reimagine schools. I think you know teacher salary, working 
conditions, and teacher voice do matter, and that is what is 
going to bring people into the profession, but we have to have 
programs that incentivize it.
    I am really proud that the budget proposal includes 350 
million dollars to improve teacher recruitment and retention. 
$132 for teacher quality partnerships, like grow your own 
programs, which I really want to see because it takes folks 
from the community, gives them training, opportunities to go to 
the higher education institutions, and then they go back.
    You mentioned the Hawkins Center of Excellence, to increase 
the diversity in the teaching profession we want to make sure--
data shows all students benefit when they are instructed by 
teachers from different backgrounds. $250 million for IDEA Part 
D, which includes additional teachers for our youngest and most 
vulnerable students.
    I am really proud of this proposal, and the President's 
commitment to education. Thank you for the opportunity to speak 
on it.
    Mr. Pocan. Yes, thank you, and just so you know, respect 
was probably the universal word that everyone brought up, and 
you know from personal experience I have heard that directly 
from teachers, and you know whatever we can do again as you 
said, to lift the profession I think is really needed right 
now.
    The other issue is the Pell Grant increase. I was very 
fortunate. I was out with some of my college buddies on Friday 
night here in Wisconsin, and we got talking about how at the 
University of Wisconsin our tuition was $500.00 a semester. It 
is not $500.00 anywhere a semester anymore. Even then we had 
student loans. I came from a lower income family, so I had Pell 
Grants. I worked throughout. I never took a spring break 
because I had to work during that time, so I could pay for 
school.
    I am glad to not lift that ladder back up from other 
people. I think the increase in Pell is really significant. Can 
you just talk about that, and the goal that I know many of us 
are trying to get to, which is doubling Pell Grants?
    Secretary Cardona. Yes. I am happy to. We know, you know, 
college affordability is like a runaway train, and we are 
trying to put the brakes on that. We are putting in systems to 
stop--what I call stop the bleeding right, to make sure that 
there is a good return on investment, and I am thankful that we 
have our partners in the higher ed field who are locking arms 
with us, and working with us, so that is really good.
    Pell is the best opportunity to level the playing field to 
make education accessible to most students, and you are 
absolutely right. Back in 1979, Pell was 80 percent of the cost 
of attendance at a 4-year public institution. The Pell Grant 
would pretty much cover 80 percent of it.
    Today that number is 30 percent. It was 100 percent of 
community colleges. Today that is at 52 percent. It is not 
enough. We are thankful that we are able to look at Pell as the 
equalizer, and we strongly encourage support for Pell. All 
students benefit from that, rural communities, urban 
communities, you know it is really leveling the playing field.
    We are also holding colleges accountable for return on 
investment, so it is not one without the other.
    Mr. Pocan. Great. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, thank you very 
much, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady from California, 
Ms. Steel.
    Mrs. Steel. Thank you very much, Chairman Scott and Ranking 
Member Dr. Foxx, and thank you, Secretary Cardona, such a long 
time hearing today. We have spoken a couple of times about the 
Harvard Asian discrimination case, and I would like to submit 
for the record a recent amicus brief I led on the Students for 
Fair Admissions vs. Harvard and UNC.
    Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Scott. I am sorry without objection.
    [The information of Mrs. Steel follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mrs. Steel. Thank you. Your administration also filed a 
brief, the brief said the Harvard admissions intend to treat 
every applicant as an individual, yet the current 
administration appears to support Harvard and their racially 
discriminatory admission policies. Asian American applicants 
are routinely rated lower than applicants of other races on 
traits like positive personality, likeability, courage, 
kindness, and being widely respected.
    How is this not discrimination? As a Secretary of Education 
is it okay for a university to discriminate against a student 
because they are Asian, is that treating each applicant as an 
individual?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that, Representative 
Steel. We are firmly in support of providing all students 
opportunities and fighting against discrimination. I know we 
have staff looking into that specific issue, and I would be 
happy to have my staff followup with you on where we are with 
that, and kind of the updates, and any information we have on 
that. Thank you.
    Mrs. Steel. Thank you, very much. Mr. Secretary, how would 
you score me on my likeability or courage traits? If you will 
give me a low score--you do not have to answer this.
    Secretary Cardona. I understand the line of questioning, 
and I understand why you are asking it, and I will have my 
staff look into it, and provide you an update. I do appreciate 
your advocacy on behalf of the students you represent.
    Mrs. Steel. Will you commit to require schools that receive 
Title IV funding to have fully transparent and easily 
accessible admissions policies? Do you agree that if students 
are being scored on personality traits, students, their 
parents, and the public have the right to know how you use 
personally use traits in making admissions decisions.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, parents should know. It should be 
very clear how the decisions are being made. That is critically 
important. I think you know those are decisions that have to be 
looked at too when parents are deciding schools. I am a big 
supporter of transparency, clarity around it, and making sure 
that universities are able to explain how they select students 
for admission.
    Mrs. Steel. Mr. Secretary, as a parent, I believe that 
school choice is good for my family. The Federal Government 
should never create rules that pick winners and losers. The 
charter school program allows for additional high-quality 
schooling options that close the achievement gap for low-income 
families, and I heard at today's hearing that you support 
charter schools.
    Why are your intentions to limit choice by proposing new 
burdensome rules on the charter school program?
    Secretary Cardona. We do support high-quality schools, 
neighborhood schools, charter schools that are serving 
children. As I said before, I have seen great examples of them. 
I have highlighted examples of them. I do believe the 
proposals, and they are just proposals at this point, are 
reasonable. We want to make sure, across the board, not just 
with public charters, but all schools, that there is a great 
level of transparency and accountability.
    We know that in many places our charter schools are places 
of innovation, and we would love, and we would encourage 
connections between our charter schools, and our neighborhood 
schools, but it is not a requirement. We feel they are 
reasonable; we are listening to the feedback that we have, and 
we are taking that into account as we move forward with 
whatever recommendations we are going to put out.
    Chairman Scott. Steel, you have got on mute inadvertently.
    Mrs. Steel. I yield back the rest of my time to Dr. Foxx.
    Chairman Scott. Dr. Foxx, you only have 15 seconds, it is 
hard to imagine that you are going to ask a question and get a 
response within the next couple of seconds.
    Ms. Foxx. Mr. Chairman, and you used up part of those, so I 
will yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    Mrs. Steel. I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman from New York, Mr. 
Espaillat.
    Mr. Espaillat. Mr. Chairman, can you hear me okay?
    Chairman Scott. I can hear you now.
    Mr. Espaillat. I wanted to ask the Secretary a question 
about EL students (inaudible) that is going to be provided for 
English language learners. I know that our efforts are to make 
students proficient in English as quickly as possible, but if 
we want to be competitive, we must also allow bilingual 
students have expertise in dual language. I want to know what 
efforts are you making to get there?
    Secretary Cardona. Claro que yes. I firmly agree that--and 
the research shows that when students are bilingual there are 
more opportunities, and the learning actually increases. We 
have in the proposal a 1-billion-dollar request for Fiscal Year 
2023. It is 244 million over 22 enacted level. I could not 
agree with you more.
    Looking at language as an asset is critical, and if we are 
going to be competitive internationally, being bilingual is a 
starting point. In many other countries students are multi-
lingual. They are bilingual or trilingual.
    Mr. Espaillat. Okay. My last question.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, okay go ahead.
    Mr. Espaillat. My last question is what measures is the 
department taking to ensure they have complete and accurate 
date for Title I Part D grant recipients.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. We are working more closely 
to make sure we are engaging with our stakeholders, our 
recipients of grants and seeing how they are drawing down the 
funds looking at best practices, we will continue to do that 
moving forward. Happy to followup with your office if there are 
specific questions, but oversight of the funds is critical to 
them meeting the needs of our students.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you, Mr. 
Secretary.
    Chairman Scott. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman 
yields back. The other gentleman from New York, Mr. Jacobs.
    Mr. Jacobs. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, 
thank you for being here today to talk about many important 
issues for our children throughout the United States. I wanted 
to ask a couple questions regarding the proposed rule change to 
the charter school program.
    The section 4307 of the Elementary and Secondary Education 
Act requires the department to consult administrators, 
teachers, and other individuals involved with the operation of 
charter schools, and the development of any regulation that 
impact charter schools.
    Leaders in the charter school community that I talked to 
could not identify any members of the community who were 
consulted in regard to development of this new proposed rule 
change. Could you tell me how your department complied with 
4307, which specific individuals or groups were reached out to 
in regard to the proposed rule?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. Yes. We 
recognize there is some concern about the proposals from some 
in the charter community. We can assure you that the process 
did take in feedback and comments, and it was the open comment 
period that led to our proposed rules. I do not have that 
specific information with you--I am happy to have my team 
followup with you with very specifics, who was spoken to, and 
who we received comments from.
    Mr. Jacobs. Okay, thank you because I would be stuck with 
the likes of national alliance of public charter schools, which 
I would have thought would have been one of the first ones, 
they were not contacted. I would say if, you know, I would ask 
some consideration if you did in fact not comply with this, 
that you might consider pulling back this process and starting 
again right.
    In regards to the rule itself, one of the proposals in that 
rule effectively gives de facto veto power they over charter 
school application to a traditional public school district if 
it seeks to open. It requires a memorandum of understanding 
with the district school. Having been a co-founder of a charter 
school in Buffalo, New York, I can tell you that the public 
school system works with us, but I do not think they would 
choose to if they had to.
    They were very comfortable being a monopoly. I think this 
is you know, this is really tipping the hand to the traditional 
school districts to the special interests kind of involved with 
the traditional school districts at the expense of trying to 
provide children and families who are desperate for high-
quality choices. I heard in your recent answer that it was a 
reasonable proposal.
    I just beg to differ that it is not reasonable, and it is 
kind of a backdoor way, in my mind, of crushing innovation in 
charter schools.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. If I could comment on that is 
that okay?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, please.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you. I appreciate your 
perspective, No. 1, having experience with charter schools and 
seeing the benefits that they provide students. I think there 
is a lot of misinformation out there, and that is why it is 
really important No. 1, that I communicate that these were 
proposals. They are not rules yet.
    The word was encourage, not require. I hear what you are 
saying, and I understand that some community schools or 
neighborhood schools are not, are the reasons why maybe the 
partnership will not happen. I have heard from charter school 
leaders saying hey, even if we wanted to, maybe the school 
would not want to. We would not want to hold that against our 
charters, but we do know that in many cases there is a lot to 
be learned when schools will work together.
    It was an encouragement, and again these are proposed 
rules, we have not completed, but I do appreciate your 
perspective on it.
    Mr. Jacobs. Okay. I also served on the Buffalo School Board 
for 7 years, and I do believe the challenge and innovation that 
came out, and the competition that came out by the charter 
school movement in our city actually improved the Buffalo 
schools, made us up our game. We have collaborated, but a sign-
off, or a requirement that there is no vacancies in the public 
school system, if that was a hard and fast rule it would be 
detrimental because typically the vacancies in our schools that 
kids do not want to attend.
    Anyway, thank you for your time, and I yield back.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, and I agree with you on that 
last point.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Are there other members that 
wish to be recognized? If not, I will recognize myself for 5 
minutes. Mr. Secretary, we heard a suggestion that democrats 
support ``defund the police.'' Just for the record I would want 
to point out that I am not aware of any meaningful number of 
democrats that support defund the police.
    Nobody in leadership, no committee chairs. A handful of 
members apparently do support that, but it is the suggestion 
that democrats support defund the police is not accurate. There 
is on--let me ask you a question on Robb Elementary School. 
Were school resource police officers assigned to Robb 
Elementary, are you aware?
    Secretary Cardona. Sir, I know there are conflicting 
reports on whether or not there were officers present. I really 
do not feel like I have the most up to date information.
    Chairman Scott. Okay. Well the evidence I have seen on the 
effectiveness of school resource officers are that whatever 
value they have could be provided by counselors, not police 
officers, or the presence of police, tend to add to the school 
to prison pipeline, so if you could provide for the record 
studies that show the effectiveness of school resource 
officers, I would like to see it.
    The other is, just clarify, there is a little uncertainty 
of support for vouchers and public school or private school 
charters. Could you State whether or not you support private 
school vouchers, and private charters, or whether that support 
is confined to the public system overseen by the school boards?
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you for this opportunity. Without 
question, you know, as a parent there might be--for example I 
went to a technical high school. Those are public school 
options that I had. I do not support Federal dollars for 
voucher programs that leave a system gutted, so that we have 
other options and not take care of our neighborhood schools.
    The overwhelming majority of parents want to choose their 
neighborhood school, but I do believe choices within the public 
school options are healthy for families.
    Chairman Scott. Okay, thank you. Are you aware of threats 
to the lives of school board members?
    Secretary Cardona. I am not aware of any current threats to 
school board members.
    Chairman Scott. In some of the meetings where school board 
members have to be escorted into the school board meetings by 
police protection?
    Secretary Cardona. I have seen examples of that over the 
last year.
    Chairman Scott. Can you say what your budget does for CTE, 
career technical education, you mentioned?
    Secretary Cardona. Happy to do so. Let me just--I will talk 
about the budget proposal, which is 183 million dollar increase 
over the 22 enacted level. I want to talk more globally that 
this has to be a big part of how we reimagine schools. Career 
and Technical Education has often been pushed aside, and it is 
a 4-years or bust mentality.
    We need to change that. We are going to change the culture 
of that. We are going to create better pathways in our schools. 
This is a bipartisan issue. Every State that I visited is 
working on this, but we have pockets of excellence sir, and we 
want to make sure that states have access to great programs, 
funding to make sure that the connection with the employers is 
there, and that we can support good Career Technical Education 
in our schools.
    Chairman Scott. Can you say a word about how important it 
is for states and districts to collect data, so we can know 
which students to help? How we can deal with the achievement 
gaps?
    Secretary Cardona. Sure. Data collection, in particular 
after the pandemic, it is critically important. We know 
everyone was affected by the pandemic, but not everyone was 
affected equally. In order for us to utilize the resources of 
the American Rescue Plan for the next couple years, we have to 
know which students were impacted the greatest, and the funds 
need to make sure that we're addressing the inequities that 
were made worse during the pandemic.
    Collecting data not only on student outcomes and 
achievement, but also on their ability to learn. Are they 
coming to school? Do they have other issues at home? Are they 
in need of support, additionally, from academics, to make it 
more possible to move forward?
    Chairman Scott. That data is required under the Every 
Student Succeeds Act.
    Secretary Cardona. Yes, it is.
    Chairman Scott. Finally, what are you doing to deal with 
the fact that the public schools now are segregated now as they 
were in the 1960's?
    Secretary Cardona. We are promoting and supporting programs 
that are aimed at removing those racial isolation, racial 
barrier between schools, promoting magnet programs that make 
integration of students a core tenant of their school's 
programming, and we're going to continue to do that.
    We are also going to make sure that we recognize, and we 
work with our stakeholders that are not education stakeholders, 
to look at housing patterns that also impact where students 
attend schools. Students are investing in diverse communities, 
and it is really important that we promote that as a positive 
thing.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. My time has expired. There being 
no other members seeking recognition we will say that pursuant 
to committee practice, materials for submission to the hearing 
record must be submitted to the committee clerk within 14 days 
following the last day of the hearing.
    That means by close of business June 9, preferably in 
Microsoft Word format. Only a member of the committee or an 
invited witness may submit materials for inclusion in the 
hearing record, and the materials must address the subject 
matter of the hearing. Please submit materials to the clerk 
electronically by emailing submission to 
edandlabor.hearings@mail.house.gov.
    Again, I want to thank you, Mr. Secretary, for 
participating.
    Ms. Foxx. Mr. Chairman, will we have closing statements?
    Chairman Scott. Yes.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you.
    Chairman Scott. Again, I want to thank the Secretary for 
his participation today, members of the committee will have 
some additional questions for you, and we ask that you please 
respond to those questions in writing. The hearing record will 
be held open for 14 days in order to receive those responses.
    I remind my colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, 
witness questions for the hearing must be submitted to the 
majority committee staff or committee clerk within 7 days. The 
questions submitted must address the subject matter of the 
hearing. I now recognize the Ranking Member for her closing 
statement.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Pardon me, I appreciate 
the Secretary being here today. I particularly appreciated his 
comments about reimaging the schools to include pathways to 
careers. As the Secretary knows, he and I have spoken several 
times about his background, the fact that he has a technical 
background I think gives him great background for what he has 
done--for what he could do as the Secretary, and I appreciate 
that very much.
    If you are going to reimagine schools that way, I think you 
give some comfort to parents, but if you are reimaging schools 
in other ways, I think that is a great concern. One way I am 
concerned about the possibility of reimaging schools is what 
might happen with Title IX.
    We did not talk very much about Title IX, but I think, Mr. 
Secretary, you know this topic is generating intense interest 
across the country on all sides of the issue. I know my 
constituents are concerned that your actions are going to 
subject their sons or daughters to potentially life altering 
and irreversible medical procedures without any parental 
involvement.
    We worry that that is one of the ways you are going to 
reimagine schools and what the schools are doing. I am going to 
ask you to commit, and I know you cannot answer questions in my 
closing comments, but ask you to commit, to personally briefing 
both the republicans and the democrats on the committee on any 
proposal which you put forward on Title IX to reassure us that 
this was not one of the ways you are going to be reimaging the 
schools.
    Mr. Secretary, I was very interested in the way you talked 
about having honesty and transparency coming from colleges and 
universities and from charter schools, and you've asked us to 
work with you. Mr. Secretary, we want that same kind of honesty 
and transparency from the department and accountability.
    What we see happening is that the department is pushing 
through illegal shifting of responsibility from the person who 
took out the loan for college to hard-working taxpayers who did 
not get an advantage of even attempting to get a degree. Mr. 
Good questioned you about who do you think should be paying for 
those college debts.
    He never got an answer from you. Well, the term forgiveness 
is just a euphemism for pushing off from the person who assumed 
the debt to taxpayers. That is what it is. Let us call a spade 
a spade here. Forgiveness means you do not pay back your loan, 
and the public eats that loan.
    You talked about, again, transparency and accountability on 
admissions. Well, let us be a supporter of accountability and 
transparency everywhere, not just for certain segments of 
education, but for all segments of education. Most importantly, 
Mr. Secretary, we need transparency and accountability from the 
Department of Education.
    We are not getting that right now. We cannot get straight 
answers from you, so we are having to turn to other agencies 
like the GAO to get information you already have in your 
possession, but you refuse to give us. As I have said to you, 
Mr. Secretary, I think you have the capability of being as good 
a Secretary of Education than any person who has ever been in 
that position.
    However, I do not believe you are living up to your 
potential. It may be that you do not have the authority to do 
what you need to do, but you are in the position, and you 
should be held accountable for providing that information from 
the people who report to you. We want to work with you, Mr. 
Secretary. I have told you that from the very beginning, but I 
cannot work with somebody who hides what it is that he is 
doing.
    I looked up a quote a few minutes ago to see the issue of 
truth and silence. I do not know where this quote came from, I 
will find it--the source because I am big on sources. The 
source, when I went to Google--it is the name of--the person is 
Yevgeny Yevtushenko.
    When truth is replaced by silence, then silence is a lie. 
We cannot trust that we are getting the information that we 
should be getting in our role in oversight. When we get silence 
back, our assumption is that you are not giving us the 
information because there is something you are hiding, Mr. 
Secretary.
    Remove that feeling from us, Mr. Secretary. Give us the 
information that you have, so that we do not believe that 
silence means there is a lie there, or something you want to 
hide. That should not happen in our government. The public is 
getting more and more distrustful of our government. That is 
not healthy for a republic, and we want you to help us keep 
that distrust from occurring.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to make a closing 
statement, and I look forward to getting the information we are 
requesting, Mr. Secretary. God bless you.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. I now recognize myself for the 
purpose of making a closing statement. I want to thank you 
again, Mr. Secretary, for being with us today. Today we 
reflected on the administration's work to expand access to 
high-quality education--K through 12 and higher education--and 
help students recover from the pandemic and succeed.
    Notably, the Department of Education has helped reopen the 
schools to fulltime in-person learning safely. They have helped 
address persistent educational disparities to ensure that our 
student loan program can deliver on its promise to students. 
Simply put, the Department of Education has taken historic 
steps to get us back on the right track; however, we know that 
a lot more needs to be done in the future to improve the lives 
of our students, educators and communities.
    Mr. Secretary, I look forward to working with you as we 
deliver on the promise of education to ensure that every 
student in America can reach his or her full potential, so 
thank you again for your time, and again we look forward to 
working with you. If there is no further business to come 
before the committee, the committee now stands adjourned.
    Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Chair.
    [Whereupon, at 3:52 p.m., the Committee adjourned.]
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