[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                  INVESTING IN ECONOMIC MOBILITY: THE
                   IMPORTANT ROLE OF HISPANIC SERVING
                    INSTITUTIONS AND OTHER MINORITY
                          SERVING INSTITUTIONS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               Before The

                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION 
                         AND THE WORKFORCE INVESTMENT

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________



             HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, MARCH 2, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-41

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and the Workforce
  
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]  


        Available via: edworkforce.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov
        
                             __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
56-699 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
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                    COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR

              ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia Chairman

RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona            VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina,
JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut              Ranking Member
GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN,      JOE WILSON, South Carolina
  Northern Marina Islands            GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania
FREDERICA WILSON, Florida            TIM WALBERG, Michigan
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon             GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
MARK TAKANO, California              ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York
ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina        RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia
MARK DeSAULNIER, California          JIM BANKS, Indiana
DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey          JAMES COMER, Kentucky
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington          RUSS FULCHER, Idaho
JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York          FRED KELLER, Pennsylvania
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania             MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa
LUCY McBATH, Georgia                 BURGESS OWENS, Utah
JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut            BOB GOOD, Virginia
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan, Vice Chairman  LISA McCLAIN, Michigan
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota                DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee
HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan           MARY MILLER, Illinios
TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico   VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
MONDAIRE JONES, New York             SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina        MADISON CAWTHORN, North Carolina
FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana              MICHELLE STEEL, California
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York              CHRIS JACOBS, New York
SHEILA CHERFILUS-McCORMICK, Florida  VACANCY
MARK POCAN, Wisconsin                VACANCY
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland

                       Cyrus Artz, Staff Director
              Veronique Pluviose, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                

       SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT

                 FREDERICA WILSON, Florida, Chairwoman

MARK TAKANO, California              MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa,
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington            Ranking Member
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota                GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, Minnesota    ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York
MONDAIRE JONES, New York             JIM BANKS, Indiana
KATHY E. MANNING, North Carolina     JAMES COMER, Kentucky
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York              RUSS FULCHER, Idaho
MARK POCAN, Wisconsin                BOB GOOD, Virginia
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas                LISA McCLAIN, Michigan
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey           DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York          VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona            CHRIS JACOBS, New York
JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut            VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina (Ex 
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon                 Officio)
ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia  VACANCY
    (Ex Officio)
                         
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on March 2, 2022....................................     1

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

    Wilson, Hon. Frederica, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Higher 
      Education and Workforce Investment:........................     1
        Prepared statement of....................................     5
    Miller-Meeks, Hon. Mariannette, Ranking Member, Subcommittee 
      on Higher Education and Workforce Investment:..............     7
        Prepared statement of....................................     9

                               WITNESSES

    Cruz Rivera, Dr. Jose Luis, President, Northern Arizona 
      University (NAU)...........................................    11
        Prepared statement of....................................    13
    Ramsey, Dr. Patricia, President, Medgar Evers College........    29
        Prepared statement of....................................    31
    Davidson, Dr. Janine, President, Metropolitan State 
      University of Denver.......................................    40
        Prepared statement of....................................    42
    Teranishi, Dr. Robert T., Professor of Education, Morgan and 
      Helen Chu, Endowed Chair in Asian American Studies.........    51
        Prepared statement of....................................    53

                         ADDITIONAL SUBMISSIONS

    Chairwomen Wilson:
        Testimony of Z. Scott, President of Chicago State 
          University.............................................    89
    Foxx, Hon. Virginia, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of North Carolina:
        Rice University Report...................................    94
    Castro, Hon. Joaquin, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Texas:
        Testimony dated March 2, 2022, from Dr. Antonio R. Flores   112

                        QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

    Responses to questions submitted for the record by:
        Dr. Janine Davidson......................................   115
        Dr. Patricia Ramsey......................................   119
        Dr. Jose Luis Cruz Rivera................................   124
        Dr. Robert Teranishi.....................................   130

 
                  INVESTING IN ECONOMIC MOBILITY: THE
                   IMPORTANT ROLE OF HISPANIC SERVING
                    INSTITUTIONS AND OTHER MINORITY
                          SERVING INSTITUTIONS

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, March 2, 2022

                  House of Representatives,
    Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce 
                                        Investment,
                          Committee on Education and Labor,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:17 a.m., 
via Zoom, Hon. Frederica S. Wilson [Chairwoman of the 
Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Wilson, Takano, Jayapal, Leger 
Fernandez, Manning, Bowman, Bonamici, Scott (Ex Officio), 
Miller-Meeks, Grothman, Stefanik, Banks, Comer, Fulcher, Good, 
Letlow, and Foxx (Ex Officio).
    Also present: Representative Adams, North Carolina.
    Staff present: Amaris Benavidez, Fellow; Jessica Bowen, 
Professional Staff; Rashage Green, Director of Education 
Policy; Christian Haines, General Counsel; Alison Hard, 
Professional Staff; Rasheedah Hasan, Chief Clerk; Sheila 
Havenner, Director of Information Technology; Eli Hovland, 
Policy Associate; Ariel Jona, Policy Associate; Stephanie 
Lalle, Communications Director; Max Moore, Staff Assistant; 
Kayla Pennebecker, Staff Assistant; Veronique Pluviose, Staff 
Director; Banyon Vassar, Deputy Director of Information 
Technology; Claire Viall, Professional Staff; ArRone 
Washington, Clerk; Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff Director; Mini 
Ganesh, Minority Staff Assistant; Amy Raaf Jones, Minority 
Director of Education and Human Resources Policy; Hannah 
Matesic, Minority Director of Member Services and Coalitions; 
Audra McGeorge, Minority Communications Director; Eli Mitchell, 
Minority Legislative Assistant; Ethan Pann, Minority Press 
Assistant; Krystina Skurk, Minority Speechwriter; Chance 
Russell, Minority Professional Staff Member; and Mandy 
Schaumburg, Minority Chief Counsel and Deputy Director of 
Education Policy.
    Chairwoman Wilson. Good morning. We are ready to begin. I 
will countdown from five and then we will start. Five, four, 
three, two, one. The Subcommittee on Higher Education and 
Workforce Investment will come to order. Welcome everyone. I 
note that a quorum is present. I note for the subcommittee that 
Ms. Adams from North Carolina, the Chair and Founding Member of 
the HBCU Caucus is present to participate in today's hearing.
    She is present with the understanding that her questions 
will come only after the members of the subcommittee on both 
side of the aisle who are present have had an opportunity to 
question the witnesses. The subcommittee is meeting today to 
hear testimony on Investing and Economic Mobility, the 
Important Role of Hispanic Serving Institutions and Other 
Minority Serving Institutions.
    This is an entirely remote hearing. All microphones will be 
kept muted as a general rule to avoid unnecessary background 
noise. Members and witnesses will be responsible for unmuting 
themselves when they are recognized to speak, and when they 
wish to seek recognition. I also ask that members please 
identify themselves before they speak.
    Members should keep their cameras on while in the 
proceeding. Members shall be considered present in the 
proceeding when they are visible on camera, and they shall be 
considered not present when they are not visible on camera. The 
only exception to this is if they are experiencing technical 
difficulty and inform committee staff of such difficulty. If 
any member experiences technical difficulty during the hearing, 
you should stay connected on the platform, make sure you are 
muted, and use your phone to immediately call the committee's 
IT director whose number was provided in advance.
    Should the Chair experience technical difficulty or need to 
step away to vote on the floor, Chairman Scott is hereby 
authorized to assume the gavel in the Chair's absence. I will 
be stepping away because I have another committee markup going 
on now in transportation.
    This is an entirely remote hearing and as such the 
committee's hearing room is officially closed. Members who 
choose to sit with their individual devices in the hearing room 
must wear headphones to avoid feedback, echoes and distortion 
resulting from more than one person on the software platform 
sitting in the same room.
    In order to ensure that the committee's 5-minute rule is 
adhered to, staff will be keeping track of time using the 
committee's field timer. The field timer will appear in its own 
thumbnail picture, so there will be a blink to the note of 1-
minute remaining warning. The field timer will show a blinking 
light when time is up. Members and witnesses are asked to wrap 
up promptly when their time has expired.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule, opening statements are limited 
to the Chair and the Ranking Member. This allows us to hear 
from our witnesses sooner and provide all members with adequate 
time to ask questions. I recognize myself now for the purpose 
of making an opening statement.
    Today I look forward to discussing how Hispanic Serving 
Institutions, and other Minority Serving Institutions deliver 
on our promise to provide higher education for all. This 
discussion is the second in a series of hearings dedicated to 
examining the role of universities that are dedicated to 
serving underserved students. Before I go further, I want to 
address the recent, violent and the horrible threats that have 
terrorized HBCU students, faculty, and staff.
    Yesterday we received a briefing under the Department of 
Justice and Homeland Security that was open to everyone on 
their investigation into these hate crimes. I remain committed 
to ensuring that the Federal Government holds the perpetrators 
accountable for their actions, and that HBCUs and all 
institutions receive the support to remain open and safe.
    I also look forward to continued hearing from DOJ regarding 
their efforts to help keep HBCU campuses and communities safe. 
I want to remain in close contact with Members of Congress and 
colleges and universities leadership regarding the State of 
bomb threats. I remain disgusted and petrified that we did not 
have a classified briefing.
    Disgusted because as a Member of Congress I am due that. I 
earned that. I am petrified because 30 years ago I founded a 
mentoring program with 5,000 role models of excellence for boys 
of color. I have thousands of young men, HBCUs all over the 
country. HBCUs that are receiving death threats, and if 
something happens to one of them in an HBCU, I will blame 
myself because I sent them there.
    I have nightmares. I do not want to call it racism or 
discrimination, but what do you say? Black lives do matter, 
especially for me, and my 5,000 role model boys, and I am crazy 
with anxiety, and so are my thousands of parents. God help us 
all.
    Today we are focused on Minority Serving Institutions, 
including Hispanic Serving Institutions, Predominantly Black 
Institutions, and Asian American and Native American, Pacific 
Islanders Serving Institutions. These institutions play a key 
role in opening the door to higher education, particularly for 
students of color, first generation students, and lower income 
students.
    These institutions provide a low-cost, high-quality post-
secondary education close to home. Importantly, and as I 
embrace students from cultural backgrounds and adverse 
experiences, honoring ancestors and sustaining tradition, all 
serve to signal to students that they belong in college.
    I am extremely proud to have five Hispanic Serving 
Institutions operating in my district--Broward College, Miami-
Dade College, Barry College, St. Thomas University and Florida 
International University. These institutions and other MSIs 
across the Nation provide a unique setting that prepares 
students for success and service engines of social mobility. We 
can see this in significant contributions MSIs make into our 
workforce and our economy.
    For example, MSIs enroll a high portion of historically 
underrepresented students in STEM fields, and they support 
these student's academic and economic development. Moreover, 
2018 research from the American Council on Education 
demonstrates that the economic mobility rate of Predominantly 
Black Institutions and Asian American, Native American, Pacific 
Islander serving institutions was double compared to other 
institutions.
    HSIs were even more likely to move students up the income 
ladder. Simply put, MSIs enroll more low-income students and 
catapult more of those students to the middle class and beyond 
compared to other institutions. Unfortunately, MSIs are often 
underfunded, under resourced, forcing them to do more with 
less.
    To be designated as a Minority Serving Institution, 
colleges must not only enroll a substantial number of students 
of color and must also enroll a substantial number of Pell 
students and have fewer resources than their peer institutions. 
As a result, MSIs lack access to alternate funding sources that 
other institutions rely on, limiting the resources students 
need to complete their education.
    A 2014 report found that in Fiscal Year 2010 MSIs appeared 
on an average of approximately $16,600.00 in for student 
revenue compared to nearly $30,000.00 at other institutions. We 
know that institutions have more resources, they can provide 
high-quality educational opportunities. Investing in MSIs is 
even more critical as our higher education system recovers from 
the pandemic.
    Over the past 2 years, Congress passed the CARES Act and 
American Rescue Plan, which delivered more than 26 billion 
dollars in dedicated Federal COVID relief aid for MSIs. These 
funds help prevent students from experiencing homelessness, 
hunger, and other hardships, and provide institutions in my 
district with the resources to protect the health and safety of 
campus communities.
    While these bills provide desperately needed aid to 
students in institutions, we have a responsibility to continue 
enhancing support for institutions that play an outside role in 
fulfilling the promise of our education. I look forward to 
working with my colleagues to deliver the sustained investments 
that Minority Serving Institutions need to provide high-quality 
affordable education for generations to come.
    Additionally in the future, we will host a hearing that 
showcases the contributions and accomplishments of Tribal 
Colleges and Universities, which also play an important role in 
the higher education landscape. I want to thank our 
distinguished witnesses again for being with us today. I now 
yield to the new ranking member, and we welcome her to that 
position, Mrs. Miller-Meeks for her opening statement.
    I look forward to working with her to support our 
institutions of higher education and help every American access 
a rewarding career.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks.
    [The Statement of Chairwoman Wilson follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Chair Wilson, and 
thank you for that welcome. I look forward to working with you 
as well. Minority Serving Institutions, or MSIs are important 
contributors to the post-secondary education landscape. These 
institutions should be applauded for providing low-income, 
minority, and other disadvantaged students with greater access 
to post-secondary education.
    Hispanic Serving Institutions, or HSIs, Predominantly Black 
Institutions and other MSIs are known for being engines of 
upward mobility for millions of students, many of whom may be 
first generation college graduates, such as myself. Attending 
one of these institutions could be a path for many Americans to 
achieve a successful career.
    HSIs and MSIs deserve to be supported in this worthwhile 
mission. The COVID-19 pandemic put many colleges and 
universities through extreme challenges and hardships, 
including lower than usual enrollment and financial strain. I 
have been impressed to see how some post-secondary institutions 
are rising to the occasion in a way that is beneficial to their 
students.
    We must encourage more colleges and universities to develop 
their own strategic plans for holding themselves accountable, 
cutting costs, and supporting the students and the institutions 
they serve.
    Minority Serving Institutions have received a historic 
infusion of Federal funds, including 5.5 billion in grants as 
part of the Coronavirus Aid Relief and Economic Security, or 
CARES Act, and the Coronavirus Response and Relief Supplemental 
Appropriations Act, and the American Rescue Plan as well, 255 
million in mandatory funding from the Fostering Undergraduate 
Talent by Unlocking Resources for Education Act.
    This being said, relying on Federal funds is inherently 
unstable. That is why it is important to encourage these 
institutions to be more innovative in the way they use taxpayer 
dollars to develop strategic business models and diversify 
their revenue stream, and work with the private sector to help 
students complete their programs and excel in the workforce.
    Colleges and universities have a great opportunity to 
prioritize programming that advances their mission. Cutting 
back on administrative bloat and extraneous programs and 
targeting their investments toward high-impact strategies with 
proven outcomes for student success will help these 
institutions both stay afloat and drive down the cost of 
tuition for their students.
    These institutions might also consider refocusing their 
course offerings and degree programs to align more closely with 
the needs of their workforce, and we will hear about this 
today. We are going through a historic labor shortage. While 
the importance of the soft skills gained through traditional 
higher education cannot be understated, they should be 
incorporated into programs that focus on developing 
technologies, high-skilled trades and other in demand programs 
needed to repair our workforce pipeline.
    Making these adjustments will attract more students and 
provide better outcomes. More colleges and universities should 
focus on helping our Nation's future workers develop the skills 
necessary to succeed in today's workforce. With the cost of 
college rising, and outcomes not always meeting student's 
expectations, we need to institute more transparency in higher 
education.
    No institution should be exempt from accountability, and 
that includes HSIs and MSIs to sponsor access, accountability, 
and completion for low-income and minority students seeking 
post-secondary education. We must reform the Higher Education 
Act to ensure institutions take more responsibility for the 
outcomes of their students.
    I know President Davidson has engaged I many of these 
difficult conversations and has been successful in tackling 
these issues head on. I look forward to hearing more from her 
in a few minutes. Thank you so much, and I yield back my time 
Madam Chair.
    [The Statement of Ranking Member Miller-Meeks follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairwoman Wilson. Thank you, Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Without 
objection, all of the members who wish to insert written 
statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the 
committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5 
p.m. on March 16.
    I will now introduce the witnesses. Dr. Jose Luis Cruz 
Rivera serves as the 17th President of Northern Arizona 
University. Prior to joining NAU he served as President of 
Lehman College of the City University of New York. Dr. Cruz 
Rivera received his BS Degree from the University of Puerto 
Rico and MS and PhD from Georgia Institute of Technology. 
Welcome.
    Dr. Patricia Ramsey serves as the sixth President of Medgar 
Evers College, a constituent college of the City University of 
New York. She is the first woman and first scientist to be 
appointed President of the institution. Dr. Ramsey received her 
BS from Norfolk State University, her MA from Howard 
University, and her PhD from Georgetown University.
    Dr. Janine Davidson has served as President of Metropolitan 
State University of Denver since 2017. Prior to her time at MSU 
Denver, Davidson served as the 32d Under Secretary of the 
United States Navy. Dr. Davidson is a graduate of the 
University of Colorado Boulder, and the University of South 
Carolina.
    Dr. Robert Teranishi is a Professor of Social Science and 
Comparative Education and Director for the Institute for 
Immigration Globalization and Education at UCLA. He also serves 
as the APIA Scholar and AANAPISI steering committee. He 
received his BA from US Santa Cruz and his MA and PhD from 
UCLA.
    To the witnesses we appreciate the witnesses for 
participating today, and we look forward to your testimony. Let 
me remind the witnesses that we have read your written 
statements and they will appear in full in the hearing record. 
Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(d) and committee practice, each of 
you is asked to limit your oral presentation to a 5-minute 
summary of your written statement.
    Before you begin your testimony, please remember to unmute 
your microphone. During your testimony staff will be keeping 
track of time and a light will blink when time is up. Please be 
attentive to the time.
    Wrap up when your time is over and re-mute your microphone. 
If any of you experience technical difficulty during your 
testimony, or later in the hearing, you should stay connected 
on the platform.
    Make sure you are muted and use your phone to immediately 
call the committee's IT director whose number was provided to 
you in advance. We will let all of the witnesses make their 
presentations before we move to member questions. When 
answering a question please remember to unmute your microphone.
    The witnesses are aware of their responsibility to provide 
accurate information to the subcommittee, and therefore we will 
now proceed with their testimony. I will first recognize Dr. 
Rivera.

  STATEMENT OF DR. JOSE LUIS CRUZ RIVERA, PRESIDENT, NORTHERN 
               ARIZONA UNIVERSITY, FLAGSTAFF, AZ

    Dr. Cruz Rivera. Buenos Dias, and Good Morning Chairwoman 
Wilson, Ranking Member Miller-Meeks, and members of the 
committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you 
this morning. My name is Jose Luis Cruz Rivera, and I am the 
President of Northern Arizona University, whose mountain campus 
in the city of Flagstaff sits at the base of the San Francisco 
peaks, a homeland sacred to Native Americans throughout the 
region, who have lived here for millennium, and will forever 
call these lands home.
    Today I come before you to make the case for increased 
investments in HSIs because of who these institutions serve, 
how well they serve them, and the individual and collective 
benefits these investments can generate for the people of the 
United States of America.
    The investments I am advocating for are urgently needed to 
eradicate two very sad realities. The first is that today 
students from high-income families are approximately five times 
as likely as students from low-income families to obtain a 
bachelor's degree by the age of 24.
    The second is that today only 40 out of every 100 White 
kindergarteners are expected to get a bachelor's degree in 
their lifetime, and that alarmingly this number drops by half 
for Black kids and one-third for Latino and Native American 
children. It is my position that by increasing Federal 
investments in HSIs you can accelerate the progress needed to 
eradicate the educational inequities that have led to this 
current State of affairs.
    Here are three reasons why I believe investing in HSIs can 
help us expand the number of students who can receive the 
equitable access and support services they need to complete 
quality affordable credentials that will offer them increased 
economic mobility and will offer the Nation broader economic 
disparity.
    First, in addition to enrolling two-thirds of the 3.8 
million Hispanic students in college today, HSIs also enroll 
large percentages of other students of color, and large 
percentages of those with financial need, that is HSIs serves 
most of its student in our country who today have the last, but 
who tomorrow contribute the most to resurrect a strong middle 
class.
    Second, while severely under resourced, HSIs have proven 
they can propel large numbers of students into the middle class 
and beyond. In fact, today each and every one of the top ten 
colleges and universities that offer the most economic mobility 
to the United States and HSI.
    Recent studies suggest that addressing education inequities 
head on bring significant value to both individuals and society 
at large, specifically, if equity gaps in attainment were close 
today the Nation could see nearly one trillion dollars added to 
the economy annually. It stands to reason then that additional 
support for HSIs can pave the way for advancing equity, more 
economic mobility, and broader economic prosperity in America.
    To this end my written testimony presents five policy 
recommendations. No. 1, align financial aid with the needs of 
the increasingly diverse students attending HSIs. Let us double 
Pell. No. 2, maximize impact by increasing per student 
investments in HSIs, HBCUs and other MSIs.
    Let us invest equitably in the future of all of those who 
choose to retire. No. 3, incentivize the use of evidence-based 
practices to boost student outcomes at HSIs. We know what works 
we just need the funding to make it happen. No. 4, bolster the 
physical, virtual and research infrastructure at HSI. All 
students be served a safe and modern environment conducive to 
learning.
    No. 5, improve data transparency and invest in P-12 
teachers. We need data to identify opportunities and keep 
ourselves accountable. We need strong P-12 teachers to 
cultivate post-secondary aspirations in their students and 
produce college ready students.
    In closing, please note that Northern Arizona University 
welcomes the opportunity to work with you, and other 
institutions and policymakers across the country to ensure that 
our higher education system works for all who aspire to meet 
their full potential. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Cruz Rivera follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairwoman Wilson. We will now hear from Dr. Ramsey, thank 
you.

   STATEMENT OF DR. PATRICIA RAMSEY, PRESIDENT, MEDGAR EVERS 
                     COLLEGE, BROOKLYN, NY

    Dr. Ramsey. I would like to thank Hon. Chairman Bobby Scott 
and Ranking Member Virginia Foxx of the Committee on Education 
and Labor, Subcommittee Chair Frederica Wilson and Ranking 
Member Miller-Meeks of the Subcommittee on Higher Education and 
Workforce Investment for the invitation to testify today about 
PBIs.
    My name is Patricia Ramsey, and I am the sixth President of 
Medgar Evers College, and as you heard from the Chair the first 
woman to be in that position. I have been here only about a 
year now, but I have spent 25 years as an administrator at 
HBCUs. I have earned the degree at an HBCU that is in Chairman 
Scott's area of the country in Virginia.
    I am proud to serve as the President of Medgar Evers 
College, a college born out of advocacy in the Black community 
of central Brooklyn, birthed with social justice in its DNA, 
named for Civil Rights leader Medgar Wiley Evers, a college in 
the City University of New York, the Nation's leading urban 
public university led by Chancellor Felix Rodriguez, and serves 
more than 275 degree-seeking students and 25 colleges, 18 of 
which are MSIs, two PDI's, Medgar Evers College and New York 
College.
    Central Brooklyn where Medgar Evers is located is a low-
income area, and one of the hardest hit communities during the 
COVID-19 pandemic, 85 percent of our students are Black, and 
most of them come from Brooklyn. At Medgar Evers we believe 
that education can positively transform lives.
    PBIs like Medgar Evers often are confused with HBCUs, 
however they are not HBCUs. There is a difference. You cannot 
be an HBCU and a PBI at the same time. Medgar Evers College, 
although it was actually founded in 1970, is not an HBCU 
because it was not founded before 1964.
    In the PBIs we have first generation college students. It 
has to be 50 percent of people who are in low-income as well as 
it has to a minimum of 40 percent in the African American 
group.
    The graduation rate--how graduation rates are determined by 
the Federal Government in my opinion it is very flawed. 
Graduation rates are currently defined by the U.S. Department 
of Education as a measure of the cohort of first semester, 
degree-seeking undergraduate students that complete their 
requirements and within 150 percent of normal completion time.
    If it takes a bachelor's degree seeking student any factor 
more than 6 years, the student is not counted. Also, students 
who transfer from one school to another, students that started 
the spring rather than the fall, and students who began 
matriculation part-time are not counted in graduation rates.
    Therefore, institutions with the neediest students, such as 
PBIs have hundreds of students who graduate but are not counted 
in the graduation rate. Therefore, these institutions are not 
viewed as a good return on investment. Institutions such as 
Medgar Evers College is No. 2 in CUNY of producing graduates 
with science degrees.
    Since many funders use graduation rates to determine all 
the institution's success, institutions like Medgar Evers 
College are denied funding based on faulty assumptions, 
therefore the Federal definition of graduation rates need to 
change. PBIs provide underserved and under-represented 
communities with significant access to higher education, and 
similarly experience funding challenges.
    In 2021, PBIs served approximately 290,000 students and 
were allocated only 28 million through this funding for 
predominant Black institution program, which amounts to only 
about $96.00 per PBI student. In Fiscal Year 2022 it increased 
to about $138.00 per PBI student.
    PBIs consist of undergrads that are low-income, and these 
students are--institutions that experience things such as 
housing insecurity and--housing instability, I am sorry, and 
food insecurity, and these students are not able to be able to 
provide for themselves, and therefore are not in good health.
    At the forefront of your thinking, I want you to think 
about funding for the PBIs, and I would like to thank you so 
much because PBIs strengthen this Nation, and I am open to 
questions. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Ramsey follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairwoman Wilson. Thank you so much, Dr. Ramsey. Now we 
will hear from Dr. Davidson.

STATEMENT OF DR. JANINE DAVIDSON, PRESIDENT, METROPOLITAN STATE 
                UNIVERSITY OF DENVER, DENVER, CO

    Dr. Davidson. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Scott, Ranking 
Member Foxx, Subcommittee Chairwoman Wilson, Subcommittee 
Ranking Member Miller-Meeks, and all the members of the 
committee for the opportunity to testify today. Thank you for 
your service to our Nation.
    I am Janine Davidson, President of Metropolitan State 
University of Denver which is Colorado's largest Hispanic 
Serving Institution with over 17,500 undergraduate, and 
graduate students, 5,400 of whom are Latino. I am actually 
considered a non-traditional President.
    I started my career as an Air Force pilot, and then 
returned to school for a Ph.D. Did a short stint as a professor 
before being pulled back into government service in the 
Pentagon. I came to MSU Denver in 2017 following my service as 
the 32d Undersecretary of the U.S. Navy.
    I am a proud product of America's public education system 
from kindergarten to the completion of my Ph.D. I was supported 
by the generous investment of the American taxpayer, and I am 
most grateful for that investment, which I believe humbly, that 
I have more than repaid through my 30 plus years of academic 
military and civilian service.
    Returning to higher ed as a university President, I learned 
that this path, which is my path, is now out of reach for so 
many students today. Whereas 70 percent of college costs were 
covered by public funding when I was in school, today only 20 
to 30 percent of the costs are, and this means that students 
pay higher tuition, and faculty and staff pedal much faster to 
try to keep the price tag affordable.
    In light of this challenge, I was actually thrilled by the 
opportunity to lead a university like MSU Denver. Like other 
MSIs, our university reflects the historic promise of America's 
public higher education system at a time when such opportunity 
seems to be slipping away.
    MSU Denver is holding a line in the American Dream, and to 
be clear, it is not that easy. Today I would like to highlight 
for you what real college is like for the vast majority of 
Americans today compared to the old-fashioned somewhat country 
club like version that is only available today to a privileged 
minority.
    Let me start by sharing some illuminating numbers real 
quick. More than 50 percent of our students are people of 
color, one-third are Latino, 58 percent are first in their 
family to go to college. More than half transfer in from 
community college, or another 4-year university. 80 percent 
work 20 to 40 hours a week and have families to feed. The 
average age of our student is 25.
    30 percent of our students qualified for Federal Pell 
grants to help pay for education. The point I am making here is 
that today's typical college student is not an 18-year-old high 
school graduate who has the time and the money to go full-time 
to get in and out in 4 years.
    They juggle families and jobs, they start and stop, they go 
for a time. In fact, the average course load for MSU Denver is 
only 11 credit hours, just shy of that full-time definition, 
but they persist. In recognizing these realities, we are 
committed to providing an educational experience that fits into 
their complex lives, versus trying to force them to pause their 
paths and their work lives to accommodate some sort of rigid 
out of date linear system.
    We also want the student and government investment to be 
relevant to the real world and their career goals, and we do 
this by helping students chart their path, economically and 
academically, combining Pell grants and scholarships allows 40 
percent of MSU Denver's students to go tuition free.
    Our average student loan debt for graduates is $25,000.00 
and nearly 25 percent of our graduates have zero debt. We focus 
on programs with proven outcomes that provide the winning 
combination advising financial assistance and leadership, 
community building, to ensure these students get over the 
finish line.
    We are working to keep school relevant by partnering 
directly with industry to develop career relevant curricula and 
provide students with work-based learning opportunities before 
graduation. This working while learning is super important 
today as LinkedIn reports that ironically close to 60 percent 
of entry level jobs for holders of bachelor's degrees require 3 
years of experience.
    MSU Denver is aligning academic programs with the critical 
needs of Colorado and the Nation, from cybersecurity and 
aerospace to advanced manufacturing health professions and 
public service. Our partnerships with employer's help build our 
Nation's current pipeline with graduates who are ready to hit 
the ground running on their career.
    Preparing the next generation of Americans is not just a 
two-way partnership, the Federal Government I think has a 
critical role to pay in ensuring that we capture this moment to 
chart the course. I respectfully offer five specific 
suggestions. First, let us change the narrative.
    Telling Americans that college is irrelevant to their 
prosperity or simply out of reach will deter the next 
generation from preparing themselves for this complex 
socioeconomic arena, further fueling our Nation's decline in 
the 21st Century knowledge-based interconnected global economy. 
It is just not true.
    In Colorado more than 75 percent of jobs require post-
secondary education. No. 2, go ahead and keep simplifying the 
FAFSA. We commend Congress for passing FAFSA simplification in 
the last session. At MSU Denver we literally waste time and 
scare scholars helping students fill out that form to confirm 
that they are poor.
    Anything that you can do to double down on Pell will help 
enhancing work study for students, and accounting for metrics 
that matter as Doctor Ramsey pointed out, are all things that I 
totally agree with. In short, I thank you for the meaningful 
investments you have made in HSIs and for inviting me to share 
my perspective with you today.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Davidson follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairwoman Wilson. Thank you so much, Dr. Davidson. Now we 
will hear from Dr. Teranishi.

  STATEMENT OF DR. ROBERT TERANISHI, PROFESSOR OF EDUCATION, 
MORGAN AND HELEN CHU, ENDOWED CHAIR IN ASIAN AMERICAN STUDIES, 
      UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, LOS ANGELES, WHITTIER, CA

    Dr. Teranishi. Committee Chairman Scott, Subcommittee 
Chairwoman Wilson, Ranking Member Miller-Meeks, and the 
distinguished members of the subcommittee, it is an honor for 
me to join you today to discuss findings from my research on 
AANAPISIs.
    I want to begin by talking about the ways in which the 
relevance of AANAPISIs, and I will emphasize is directly tied 
to the significant demographic change we are experiencing in 
our Nation. We are seeing a shifting demographic landscape 
where minorities will be half the population in the U.S. by 
2045.
    We have already reached that tipping point in our K to 12 
public schools where minority enrollments surpassed white 
enrollment in 2018, and that is the fastest growing racial 
group in the U.S.
    The AAPI population is a significant contributor to the 
shifting demographic landscape of our Nation. It is also 
important to recognize the diverse demographic makeup of the 
AAPI population. The racial category consists of 48 different 
ethnic groups with wide variation and immigration histories, 
cultures, and religions.
    Despite a perception of universal high academic 
achievement, the significant differences in educational 
attainment rates of AAPI and subgroups. For example, 
approximately half of southeast Asian and Pacific Islander 
college students leave without earning a degree.
    This is an attrition rate that is three to five times 
greater than east Asians and south Asians. It is a particularly 
disturbing demographic trend that is pointing to a downward 
intergeneration ability within the NHPI community, that's the 
Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander community.
    This includes a decline in NHPI college enrollment, and a 
decline in degree attainment rates. AANAPISIs are important 
because it is the most marginalized and vulnerable AAPI 
students, and the institutions that serve them, that benefit 
the most from the program. In fact, a CRS study found that 
AANAPISIs enrolled three quarters of all low-income AAPI 
students.
    A significant portion of these students are the first in 
their families to attend college. We found that AANAPISIs are 
an important cite for innovation.
    AANAPISIs are using their funding to pursue effective 
practices related to the delivery of student service, 
curricular and academic program development, leadership and 
mentorship opportunities, and faculty and staff development.
    De Anza College for example, used their grant to develop 
impact AAPI, which was a learning community that paired 
developmental English with an AAPI literature course, and 
included wrap around support services with an embedded 
counselor.
    Our research, which compared the outcomes of impact to HSI 
students where characteristically similar students were not in 
the program, found that the program increased the likelihood 
that students that have passed their developmental course, and 
transitioned from developmental to college level English.
    Program participants were also more like to earn an 
associate degree and accomplish this in less time. These 
findings help to inform an effort by De Anza to bring to scale 
and institutionalize these grant funded activities.
    The UNLV is using part of their AANAPISIs grant to focus on 
evaluating and improving how they collect and report data on 
their AAPI students.
    This is noteworthy considering the extent to which 
disaggregated data is critical for revealing differences 
between the AAPI sub-groups, with regards to their access to 
and utilization of services, as well as disparities and 
persistence and degree of attainment.
    This is perhaps one of the most important civil rights 
issues for the AAPI community because aggregated data is 
rendering the most marginalized vulnerable groups invisible. 
Improvements to UNLV's data systems and practices will serve as 
a model for the rest of institutions within the Nevada System 
of Higher Education, as well as for the broader field higher 
education.
    Perhaps the most significant challenge for AANAPISIs is the 
inadequate level of funding available for eligible 
institutions. The current level of funding for example has 
resulted in 30 AANAPISIs receiving grants in 2020 and 2021, 
that is only 18 percent of the eligible institutions.
    A higher level of funding will result in an exponential 
increase in the number of students that would benefit from 
these resources, and additional investment in AANAPISIs and 
other MSIs would result in more opportunities to expand, 
replicate, and bring to scale innovative grant funded 
activities.
    To this point greater funding for MSIs is also an 
opportunity to harness the research capabilities of a growing 
number of research intensive MSIs, which include 17 HSIs that 
are classified as R1. I want to thank the committee for 
including me in what I believe to be a historic occasion for 
AANAPISIs.
    To the best of my knowledge this is the first time there is 
been a substantial focus on AANAPISIs in a congressional 
hearing on higher education. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Teranishi follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairwoman Wilson. Thank you. Under Committee Rule 9(a), we 
will now question witnesses under the 5-minute rule. I will be 
recognizing subcommittee members in seniority order. Again, to 
ensure that the member's 5-minute rule is adhered to, staff 
will be keeping track of time, and the time will show a 
blinking light when time has expired. Please be attentive to 
the time, wrap up when your time is over, and remove, re-mute 
your microphone, and please excuse my voice.
    As Chair, I now recognize myself for 5 minutes. Medgar 
Evers has a long history of serving Black students, and 
currently serve a student population that is 82 percent Black. 
Dr. Ramsey what is unique about the Black Predominantly Black 
Institution campus environment that contributes to the 
enrollment and completion of Black students?
    Dr. Ramsey. Thank you for that question. Medgar Evers 
College, located in Central Brooklyn, in a community of low-
income students, is very unique in that many of our students 
come to us where they have not even finished high school and 
have come in with a GED, and we wrap the services around them 
to help them to actually be able to be successful.
    A great example of this is a gentleman who came in with a 
GED, and now he has a PhD, I am sorry a doctorate in social 
work from a very prestigious institution, and because of that 
decided to come back and work with students such as himself. We 
wrap services around these students, so that those students can 
be successful.
    One of the things that we would love to be able to do is to 
wrap more services around because it is a lot more costly to be 
able to do that. Thank you. You are muted.
    Chairwoman Wilson. A college degree has become increasingly 
essential to accessing new jobs and sustaining wages. While not 
every student may want to pursue a college degree, I hope we 
can all agree everyone should have the opportunity to get a 
strong job. Dr. Cruz Rivera can you share with us the mission 
of Northern Arizona University and its impact on socio and 
economic mobility for your students?
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. Thank you, Madam Chair. The Northern 
Arizona University has a 122-year history of serving first 
generation low-income students, Native American students, 
Hispanic students, students from all walks of life. Up to 
recent times the mission has been very much about expanding 
opportunity and solving the region's problems.
    If we look toward the future, we recognize that we need to 
do more, and so we are currently instituting a strategic 
planning effort that will hold us accountable for ensuring that 
we are putting the support services in place and expanding 
opportunity and broadening participation so that students that 
look more like the State of Arizona are actually getting an 
opportunity at NAU to meet their full potential.
    To that end, we are really focusing all of our work around 
the concept of equitable post-secondary value. We want to 
ensure that our students have everything they need, so that 
once they graduate, they are well-positioned for very good 
paying careers, and/or further study. We will be measuring our 
success in terms of the success of our students post college 
graduation.
    Chairwoman Wilson. Thank you. Dr. Ramsey, PBIs and other 
MSIs not only provide a high-quality education, but also thrive 
at meeting the unique needs of their students. How might we 
best evaluate the full impact of an MSI education?
    Dr. Ramsey. Well, I think we need to look at it very 
holistically. The students that we receive are students that 
are coming from underserved areas. Many of the students have 
housing instability and food insecurity. The students at my 
institutions for example family income is less than $35,000.00 
a year.
    They need a number of supports. What we have been trying to 
do is to put some things in place to be able to support these 
students, and so hopefully I have responded to your question 
appropriately. I saw that my timer was not quite at 5 minutes.
    Mr. Scott. Madam Chair, you are on mute.
    Chairwoman Wilson. I am telling you I am not good. I am not 
good at all, not today. I will now recognize the ranking member 
for the purpose of questioning the witnesses.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Doctor 
Davidson in your testimony you mentioned that today's college 
students are not the typical 18-year-old high school graduates 
that are looking to complete their degree in 4 years. I know 
that well as being an older student and going to medical 
school.
    They are largely non-traditional students coming from all 
walks of life, often with some post-secondary education 
experience, and likely balancing other responsibilities such as 
working one or two jobs in addition to their studies. As such, 
it seems as if our post-secondary education system is failing 
as it is modeled after serving a student population that is not 
reflective of this current landscape.
    How should institutions adapt to this reality and meet 
students where they are in their lives rather than where they 
think they should be, or they have been in the past?
    Dr. Davidson. Thank you very much for that question 
Representative Miller-Meeks. It is absolutely true that our 
students do not fit that full-time 4 year stop full on model. 
Most of our students are working 30 to 40 hours a week, and 
what we think that higher education needs to adapt to fit their 
zig-zagging and complicated lives.
    Ways that you can do that is to No. 1, partner with 
industry to make that work experience that they are already 
doing toward their career. If you are flipping pizzas, maybe 
you should get an internship instead with an industry that you 
are thinking about working in as you move along. Higher 
education needs to adapt its curriculum, so that needs to 
partner with an industry left of that graduation timeline so 
that the students can have that relevant experience along the 
way.
    Another thing that we do is we have to change the way we 
talk about college. If you are coming to college and you have 
you know two kids and a full-time job, and you have plotted it 
out so that you can afford it, and you can get through in four, 
five, 6 years, but you are constantly being told that you are 
behind the normal timeline, that is very sort of demoralizing 
for our students. We need to chart the courses that fit into 
their lives as opposed to the other way around.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. It sounds like my father when you talked 
about the school of hard knocks taking 20 years to get to a 
bachelor's degree. What are some other Federal policy changes 
that could be made to help bolster reforms that institutions 
are making to meet the demands of today's students?
    Dr. Davidson. Yes, you know, thank you for that too. You 
know we try really hard to be efficient, and one of the biggest 
inefficiencies ironically is that FAFSA process. Anything that 
we can do to simplify that process will allow me, as the 
President, to put resources on the things that matter, on those 
high-impact practices that get students over that finish line.
    We spend a lot of time and staff and funding actually 
helping students fill out a form just to prove that they are 
poor. I think we can do better as a Nation, and not leave that 
funding on the table for those. Another thing that I think is 
really important is anything we can do to enhance and grow Work 
Study. As you can tell I am really passionate about this idea 
that students have an experiential learning opportunity with 
industry that is career focused.
    Anything you can do to expand that opportunity for students 
would also be very, very helpful.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. I found that in your testimony that you 
had given, and having been a nurse prior to becoming a 
physician, I saw the shortage in healthcare professionals 
before COVID-19, and now due to COVID-19. As a physician 
myself, I can speak firsthand to the challenges healthcare 
providers face, and it is important that, as we recover from 
the pandemic, that we improve our healthcare workforce 
pipeline.
    In your testimony you mentioned how MSU is scaling up its 
college of health and applied sciences to fill the gaps in our 
healthcare talent pipeline. Can you elaborate on what the 
scaling up looks like, and what MSU is doing to recruit and 
retain students?
    Dr. Davidson. Absolutely. Even before the pandemic we knew 
that healthcare was in a bit of a crisis. Lots of students who 
want to be nurses for example, huge demand for nurses. The log 
jam is higher education. We cannot get that through put. 
Unfortunately, the log jam inside the log jam is 
infrastructure. What we are doing is we are trying to partner 
with industry, and also with our State House and donors to 
really build out our infrastructure for our nursing and our 
health institute professions.
    Having some nursing simulation labs will allow us to double 
the number of nurses that get through our program. I do not 
have to tell you, but for every physician there are 16 other 
professions that are required, and we are focusing on those in 
an integrated way as well with our health institute.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Thank you so much for that and I thank 
all the witnesses for their testimony. Chair Wilson, I yield 
back my time.
    Chairwoman Wilson. We will now take questions from the 
members. We have Mr. Takano of California. You may now question 
the witness.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Madam Chair. I am very thankful for 
this opportunity to speak about the tremendous work our 
Hispanic Serving Institutions, and other Minority Serving 
Institutions have done in expanding the access to underserve 
communities. In my own district I am proud of the work that 
University of California Riverside has done to improve the 
success of low-income, first generation students, many of 
whom--actually most of whom are students of color.
    My first question is for Dr. Teranishi. It is my 
understanding sir that you testified in Congress before 2007 in 
support of creating AANAPISIs. Why is it important to designate 
a Minority Serving Institution's designation in order to better 
serve Asian American, Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander 
students?
    Dr. Teranishi. Thank you, Representative Takano, and thank 
you for highlighting the important work that is happening at UC 
Riverside. The thing that is really important about the 
AANAPISI program is it is rightfully aligning the AAPI 
community alongside their other minority population 
counterparts, right?
    It is a signal that a lot of the AAPI students have unique 
needs and challenges, and that there is a role that the Federal 
Government can play in providing resources to address these 
kinds of unique needs and challenges. It is noteworthy that 
despite the common perception that AAPIs are all enrolling in 
the highest, or the most selective universities in the Nation, 
the highest concentration of enrollment can actually be found 
in community colleges.
    This is something the AANAPISI program helps bring 
attention to. The funding in an AANAPISI program is largely 
going to community colleges, and so it is raising awareness 
about those students and their needs, as well as the unique 
needs and challenges of the institutions that serve them.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you Dr. Teranishi. I personally 
know that it is important for AAPIs to not be seen as 
monolithic, and that it is important to understand that there 
are broad differences among the sub-ethnicities. AANAPISIs use 
grant funding to expand student support services by 
incorporating culturally relevant curriculum, academic 
counseling, mentorship. Can you share with the committee some 
of the best examples from your research of how AANAPISI funding 
has been implemented to better support students?
    Dr. Teranishi. Yes, I like your point about the hopefully 
relevant practices. What it is doing is it is recognizing who 
the students are on the campus, what are their unique needs and 
challenges, and then how to apply you know best practices to 
address those unique needs and challenges.
    They have been doing a lot of work around curriculum, 
pedagogy the delivery of services that are addressing a lot of 
the ways that is a gap and the extent to which AAPI students 
have been included and are addressed or even seen in terms of 
the prior curriculum. Like, I liked the discussion earlier 
about, you know, we are serving a fundamentally different 
student body today, and AAPIs are an important part of this 
changing topography.
    Mr. Takano. Well sir, how have AANAPISIs served Asian 
American, Native Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders in more targeted 
ways?
    Dr. Teranishi. Well, we have been looking at a range of 
things we have been doing, and I think the common denominators 
that they are really trying to understand who their students 
are. It is not just a matter of enrolling more AAPI students, 
or having a critical mass of AAPI enrollment, but it is how do 
we serve them and address their unique needs and challenges. We 
are seeing that across a lot of the AANAPISIs, and it is 
working. We are seeing a rise in persistence rates, you know 
more credits attempted, higher GPA's and better outcomes in 
terms of transfer rates to community colleges, 4-year 
institutions, as well as degree attainment rates.
    Mr. Takano. Well, that is so important with regard to 
community college completion and retention. I want to thank the 
Madam Chairman for the time for the questions, and I yield 
back.
    Chairwoman Wilson. Thank you. Now we will have questioning 
from Ranking Member Foxx.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much Madam Chair, and I thank the 
witnesses for being here. Dr. Davidson in your testimony you 
mentioned that the conversations and rhetoric around higher ed 
are often misguided. We agree. And I think one needs to look no 
further than the rhetoric surrounding student debt.
    Proponents of debt cancellation often paint a misleading 
picture that looks much different than the reality encountered 
by borrowers. My concern is this may cause some students not to 
pursue post-secondary education out of fear they will end up 
with hundreds of thousands of debt they cannot afford.
    I think it would be useful for members on our committee if 
you could help separate fact from fiction when it comes to 
student debt, particularly as it pertains to students at MSU. 
What is the average student debt for students at your 
institution?
    Dr. Davidson. Representative Foxx, thank you for that 
question. The average student debt for students who have any 
debt at all is about $25,000.00.
    Ms. Foxx. Oh, $25,000, Okay. What would the monthly payment 
for an average borrower be on that?
    Dr. Davidson. I am not exactly sure what the exact monthly 
payment would be, but I can round that up for you.
    Ms. Foxx. Okay great. Then I am sure you are aware that if 
they were unable to afford that monthly payment, they have the 
option to enroll in an income driven and payment plan to help 
lower that payment, right?
    Dr. Davidson. Correct.
    Ms. Foxx. Correct. What other conversations around higher 
education do you see as particularly harmful or inaccurate, and 
can you discuss the harms that such faulty rhetoric may impose 
for perspective students? What is MSU doing to push back on 
these narratives, and ensure that they do not deter perspective 
students from pursuing a college degree?
    Dr. Davidson. Certainly, you know the first thing is about 
the debt. The headlines that say $100,000.00 and $200,000.00 
debilitating debt really, I think deters many students from 
even opening up the application and thinking about college, 
when it is actually really based on medical school, law school, 
veterinary, dental, we know that drives the numbers up.
    What we are trying to do is reach out to students and say 
``listen, it is more affordable than you think. Come talk to 
us. Come to our website. Gamify your experience.'' That is 
super important, that is the debt piece. The other negative 
narrative that is out there is this narrative that not 
everybody should go--or can go--to college. Now, I recognize 
that there are plenty of opportunities out there for people in 
vocational experiences, but you know 75 percent of the jobs in 
Colorado require a post-secondary degree. We know that to be 
true.
    By telling students that college is not worth it, that is 
too unaffordable, that it is too out of reach deters them from 
even stepping through the door. We really need to change that 
narrative. It needs to happen from everywhere in order to 
encourage students to pursue their dreams.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you. Dr. Davidson, I have long been 
frustrated with the fact that the students unable to go 
complete their degree perhaps due to unforeseen life 
experiences beyond their control have nothing to show for the 
hard work, the financial commitment they made when they 
enrolled.
    How can institutions and Federal policy adapt to allow for 
a post-secondary education system that allows students to earn 
some sort of credential as they progress through their program, 
as opposed to leaving them burdened by student debt without a 
degree if they are forced to pause their studies?
    Dr. Davidson. Yes, I think there are at least two ways that 
we can help students in this regard. One is industry approved 
stackable credentials where along the way they get badges for 
things that they have done. They can put those on their resume, 
and that can help them in the job market, which can help them 
pay off any loans that they might have and maybe come back.
    The other thing that we are doing here in Colorado is 
called reverse transfer. Let us say a student starts their 
journey here with us, and then something like that happens. If 
they have gotten enough credits racked up to give them an 
associate degree, we partner with the community colleges, so 
that they can get a reverse transfer.
    At least get an associate degree on their way to their 
bachelor's if they have to pause out.
    Ms. Foxx. Right, right. You know your Governor was on this 
committee and we got along famously. I have not talked to him 
since he became Governor, but he has a lot of great ideas on 
education. Madam Chair, before I yield back, I ask unanimous 
consent to introduce a study from Rice University.
    I want to note that while the Biden administration is 
currently undergoing negotiated rulemaking process to develop 
new rules that will unfairly target proprietary schools, for-
profits also provide valuable educational opportunities to the 
students they serve, including low-income, disadvantaged and 
minority.
    This recent study from Rice found that attending the 
College of Healthcare Professionals, a proprietary school in 
Texas, graduated at a rate of 78 percent. They had a job 
placement rate of 80 percent and graduated and then had 300 
percent earnings increase compared to the pre-graduation rate. 
Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Wilson. Now we will hear from Ms. Leger 
Fernandez, New Mexico. Welcome.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. I 
really did appreciate our witnesses highlighting the importance 
of having that additional post-secondary degree, and that in so 
many ways our job here in Congress is to create the 
opportunity, right? As we build a better America, we need to 
make sure that we are creating the opportunities so all of our 
students can realize the possibility of their dreams, right?
    I would also point out that every single public higher 
education institution in New Mexico is a Minority Serving 
Institution. In my district alone there are nine Hispanic 
Serving Institutions, three Tribal Colleges, and two 
universities and institutions that serve predominantly Native 
Americans.
    These are institutions that help push their students up the 
income ladder at graduation, especially those from low-income 
families. I want to give a shoutout to New Mexico Highlands 
University, one of the HSIs in my district. It was ranked 19th 
in the Nation by Brookings Institute for boosting student's 
social mobility and earnings, and I know first-hand that it 
does that because Senator Ben Ray Lujan attended Highlands.
    My father, mother, and three of my brothers graduated from 
Highlands. I know what a difference a place like Highlands can 
make. We also have a lot of community colleges, HSIs in my 
district. We know that there are unique benefits that go along 
with a community college, lower tuition and fees, and greater 
flexibility for non-traditional students.
    Dr. Cruz Rivera, as we work toward lifting up students, and 
we look to HSIs to support them, what can we do to ensure that 
community colleges, along with our 4-year universities receive 
the Federal investments that they need to properly educate and 
serve their students?
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. Thank you, Congresswoman. I think there 
are a lot of things that Congress can do to help ensure that 
our community college partners have the resources they need to 
advance the college going aspirations of their students and do 
so in a way that will allow them to transfer seamlessly into 4-
year institutions.
    May I suggest that the broad majority of students that 
enter community colleges do have an aspiration to go to a 4-
year college to get a degree. There are a couple of things 
there.
    One is ensuring that we are funding the community colleges 
adequately on a fair student basis, and we have the resources 
to perhaps add value to the fact that many of these students 
have been short-changed in their P-12 education, but yet have a 
lot of potential, so they need to add value to lift them so 
that they can then not only have the aspirations, but the 
preparation to move on to a 4-year college.
    Then we have to make sure that the 4-year colleges have the 
tools they need to create seamless pathways for those students 
and can received them and socialize them and provide them the 
support they need to move forward. At NAU, we are very proud of 
the fact that we have a very structured relationship with the 
ten community colleges across the State of Arizona.
    We have programs where we are collaborated with the 
community colleges in rural Arizona and the students can stay 
there and do a two plus two bachelor's degree or maybe 90 
credit hours at the community college and 30 credit hours at 
NAU and get that 4 year degree, or perhaps transfer to the 
Flagstaff campus into programs that are available only at our 
flagship institution.
    Funding for the students, and funding for the institutions 
so that they can provide the right program for their students.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Parity, I think that that is a really 
important point that you made because often times it actually 
costs more to recruit the teachers to those rural schools, 
right? You have to offer them a bit more. Sometimes it is not 
parity, but actually enticing.
    Also, I know that HSIs and MSIs play a big role in helping 
with our labor shortage gaps. New Mexico, we have 1,000 open 
teaching positions. We have great need of nurses. We are all 
hearing about that. Can you share quickly because I am running 
out of time, how Minority Serving Institutions or HSIs can help 
address that need, those shortages?
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. We need to make sure that we expand access 
to these opportunities to teach in our states, in our rural 
communities, in a culturally relevant way. One way to do that 
is, for example, the Arizona Teacher's Academy that will pay 
students for their tuition and fee, as long as they commit to 
serving the students of Arizona upon graduation.
    This is really important given that of course the debt 
levels of our students when they enter into important fields, 
maybe not be the highest paying, it needs to be considered. 
Subsidizing them, and then making sure that they have the 
incentive to stay and serve the people of their State.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Muchisimas gracias. I yield back.
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. Muchas gracias.
    Chairwoman Wilson. Thank you very much. Now Representative 
Fulcher, welcome.
    Mr. Fulcher. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I do have a few 
questions. Just the first one is for Dr. Davidson. Dr. 
Davidson, continuing on with the discussion about the cost of 
college. Today the government has moved into the position of 
being the predominant source of student loans, and you can make 
a pretty strong argument that the availability of those 
guaranteed loans have contributed to the cost of education and 
increasing tuition.
    At MSU you have had some pretty good success at keeping a 
low tuition, or relative low tuition rate. My question is two-
fold. One is how has MSU been able to keep their tuition rates 
relatively low, and second, should the government get out of 
the loan business?
    Dr. Davidson. The No. 1 thing that has driven up the price 
tag of higher education in public universities is the steady 
disinvestment by the State. Like I said in my testimony, when I 
was in college 70 percent of the cost was taken by the State, 
and 30 percent was tuition, and now it is basically flipped.
    You can make a chicken and egg argument there about loans, 
having come to fill those gaps. I think anything the Federal 
Government can do to help keep higher education affordable is 
an incredible investment in the future of our democracy.
    Mr. Fulcher. Okay. Thank you for that. I will read into 
that the way I would like to interpret it but thank you. I am 
going to shift gears just a little bit and talk about free 
speech a little bit. There has been a pretty significant 
increase in speech codes around the country, various 
institutions, other types of squelching of free speech.
    How are you handling that? What is MSU doing? Forgive me, I 
had to pop up just long enough I missed a piece of your 
testimony, so if you have covered it forgive me, but please 
address that for me.
    Dr. Davidson. Thank you for that question, Representative 
Fulcher. Free speech is something I am actually very passionate 
about, something that really concerned me when I first came 
back to this, to academia and this position, and recognized the 
degree to which so many college campuses were actually trying 
to shut down free speech. They were trying to shut down 
speakers from coming to campus.
    My general counsel and I decided to co-teach a class on 
free speech. We have done it two semesters, and we were 
pleasantly surprised, or I do not know surprised compared to 
the headlines, at how amazing our students were, and how much 
they valued free speech.
    In the years since, I think we have seen even more of 
challenges to free speech coming from you know whether it is 
the right or the left, or whatever, it does not really matter. 
We are very committed to free speech and academic freedom here 
at MSU Denver.
    We are currently working on an inclusively designed 
statement for free speech that we will be putting forward to 
the trustees here in the next few months.
    Mr. Fulcher. Maybe we can learn something from you here too 
as well. Once again, I am going to shift gears, but I have only 
got a little over a minute left, and you have mentioned in your 
testimony something that I do not fully understand. That is 
industry branded credentials, and in that regard what benefits 
do these industry branded credentials bring to students, 
particularly the non-traditional working students, and how 
prevalent are they?
    Dr. Davidson. Well, I think they are becoming more 
important, and more popular if you will. I do not think they 
are a complete replacement for higher education, but I think 
there is a partnership here. We are talking with a couple 
industry partners about codesigning curriculum that also has an 
element where you are learning on the job with them.
    That they help us design what matters to the industry, and 
we can put it back into our curriculum. It is a shared sort of 
a thing that ensures that what we are doing in higher education 
is consistently relevant to what's happening in the ``real 
world.'' Really important in technology fields, especially 
where there's such innovation happening in the private sector.
    The students that can then take those badges along with 
their regular traditional transcript, and it tells a bigger 
story to the potential employers of what exactly those students 
are capable of doing and what they've learned from their 
experience at our university.
    Mr. Fulcher. Thank you for that, and that is all the 
questions I have got for right now, but I would just like to 
take my last 5 seconds and congratulate Congresswoman Miller-
Meeks on being the ranking new member for Higher Education 
Workforce Investment. Madam Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Wilson. Thank you so much.
    Representative Manning. Representative Bowman.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all 
the witnesses for joining us today to discuss the incredible 
importance of Hispanic Serving Institutions, Predominantly 
Black Institutions and Native Pacific Islander serving 
institutions. I sit on the Science, Space and Tech Committee 
where I think a lot about the importance of diversifying the 
STEM workforce specifically.
    That is part of why I introduced the Green New Deal for 
Public Schools, which includes investments in locally rooted 
curriculum related to the clean energy transition and climate 
resilience, especially for historically marginalized districts 
of color.
    I am excited that Mercy College, an HSI that I attended, 
and where many of my constituents go, recently received Federal 
funding for their STEM Ready program to do just that. Dr. Cruz 
Rivera, how do HSIs and other MSIs play a role in unleashing 
the full potential of all our students in STEM and why is it 
important that they do so?
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. Thank you, Congressman Bowman. HSIs have a 
huge responsibility to ensure that we are allowing our students 
to meet their full potential, and that are being prepared to 
take on the new jobs in STEM fields for example.
    The reality is that HSIs only represent about 15 percent of 
the total number of colleges and universities across the 
country, but they serve two-thirds of all Hispanic students and 
a large proportion of other students of color and students with 
financial need, so we really want to diversify the STEM field, 
so that the experiences of our students can impact the way that 
we pursue and that we inform our work moving forward, then HSIs 
really have a role to play there.
    What I will say for example at NAU we are very proud of the 
fact that our STEM programs are growing, and they are being 
supported not only by the work that we are doing on our campus 
here in Flagstaff, and our 20 sites across the State, but also 
through the work that we do at middle schools and high schools 
to create the community engagement and the aspirations for our 
students.
    We learn for example the year program for the State of 
Arizona, and so we are very mindful of the fact that in order 
for our students to be able to contribute in the future for 
tech they need to be thinking about it and preparing for it and 
aspiring at an earlier age to be part of that work, and so HSIs 
are on it, and we are happy to be part of that.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you so much. I have another question I 
want to ask you. We are facing a youth mental health crisis at 
all ages. It is so important that we prioritize student well-
being, and I know that the College of Mt. St. Vincent, another 
Hispanic Serving Institution in my district, has a counseling 
center where they support student's mental health as do many 
other minority service institutions.
    As a former educator, I know firsthand the importance of 
culturally responsive mental health care in communities for all 
ages from early childhood through K to 12 and beyond. I see 
such potential for MSIs to train more Black, Latino and AAPI 
mental health professionals in the same way they are 
diversifying the teaching workforce through the Hawkins Center 
for Excellence program.
    Dr. Cruz Rivera, if provided additional Federal 
investments, how could HSIs and other MSIs play an increased 
role in training mental health providers of color?
    Dr. Rivera. Thank you. That is a very timely and important 
question. Additional funding would certainly expand the number 
of students that we serve in these areas and create programs 
that will incentivize them staying within their communities and 
serving those communities toward the long-term.
    In an earlier question, I talked about programs that we 
have here at NAU that will allow us to place teachers in the 
communities where they can provide culturally responsive 
teaching to those communities by helping subsidize their 
undergraduate degree, so that they do not incur the type of 
debt that may not allow them or persuade them from entering 
into the profession in those rural communities.
    Similarly, we are embarking now on what we call the New 
Economy Initiative, which is to dramatically increase the 
number of allied health professionals and clinical 
psychologists and mental health professionals that will be 
serving the State of Arizona, and part of that is not only 
enduring that we have the funds to pay the infrastructure, to 
serve those students, but also have the resources to place them 
in clinical settings, and then also have the incentives in 
place for them to actually be able to stay and serve the 
communities as many of them would like to.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you so much. Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Wilson. Thank you. Now Mr. Grothman.
    Mr. Grothman. Yes, now for Dr. Davidson. I am a big fan of 
competency-based education where a student's progress is 
measured by what they learn, rather than just the number of 
days they are in a seat. Are you familiar with any of these 
universities, or are you yourself using competency-based 
education as a way to, first of all, make sure that a degree 
means competency, rather than just maybe a certificate of 
attendance?
    Second, as a way to get people through college quicker 
without incurring so much debt.
    Dr. Davidson. Yes, I think there is a lot of innovation 
happening in this area, and I think there is a lot of different 
ways to do it. I am familiar with some of the ways that 
competency-based education is moving along, and we are looking 
at some of those ideas.
    I also think it kind of goes along with what we were 
talking about earlier, which is about the certificates that are 
stackable. When you combine that with the sort of revolution in 
online learning, I think you could really get to a place where 
students are taking charge of their own education. They are 
getting the credentials that they need in a way that speaks to 
employer's needs and actually articulates what it is they have 
learned in the classroom, and online.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. I will give you, or maybe even one of 
the others a question. Pell grants have come up a few times a 
little bit here in discussion. I receive complaints at home 
from parents, from I guess what I would call traditional 
families. Their students of course are not eligible for Pell 
grants because maybe both parents have a job, and they are not 
considered in poverty.
    They complain about the prejudices in our society against 
people like those because they may know somebody else whose you 
know mom and dad are not home, and nobody is working in the 
house, and their kids get free college. They wonder why you 
know they thought they were told when they were younger that 
when you get married, you have children, and there are all 
sorts of different families, and all that is wonderful.
    They feel that you know as a society we are discriminating 
against folks like that. I have also heard you know two groups 
of people who are not getting married specifically to get 
coverage, so it affects both the parents, and it effects the 
students. It bothers me the degree to which we seem to 
discrimination against traditional families in our society.
    A lot of times those families do not have a lot of money 
either, and a lot of times they are not going to contribute to 
their children's education. Nevertheless, we had one witness 
that testified that she thought we ought to double the Pell 
grants, which of course is just even more of a discrimination 
against traditional families.
    What would you say, you, or any of the other witnesses if I 
have somebody from a more traditional family come up to me and 
say that my daughter, my son is $35,000, $40,000, $45,000, 
$50,000 in debt, and their roommate, or their cousin or 
whatever is not in debt because the government seems to favor 
that group? How should I respond to that?
    Dr. Davidson. Well, I think the Pell grant program has been 
transformation for a generation of university-going students. 
Every policy at the Federal level is going to have some 
unintended consequences, and we should be looking at how to 
address those. I think what we see with the Pell situation is 
the following, especially given the changes in our economy over 
the last couple decades.
    You have people at the higher end that can pay, and they 
are going to pay. You have people at the lower end who as you 
said are going to get a lot of assistance. There is a whole 
group of folks in the middle.
    Mr. Grothman. We seem to hate as a society, right? We seem 
to hate those people as a society.
    Dr. Davidson. Yes, I do not know that people hate, but the 
middle people that sometimes are on the edges of those 
boundaries. We work really hard at MSU Denver to fill those 
gaps for students that are maybe not fully eligible for Pell 
and whose families are not fully eligible to pay, are able to 
pay as well.
    Mr. Grothman. I will give you all one more question if I 
have got time. Yes, I do. I am very concerned about student 
loan debt, and some of my more forward-looking university 
administrators, they want the ability to advise students on 
debt, or even tell them you cannot take out this amount of 
debt, because some debt that is being taken out for a 
lifestyle, more than the minimum necessary for the tuition and 
books and that sort of thing.
    Would you folks all like the ability to advise your 
students on the amount of loans they can take out, and even 
forbid them from taking out excessive amounts, because after 
all 19, or 20, or 23 year old's, even older people in our 
society cannot control their debt, and I think we need to hold 
the balance of these excessive loans by saying you know I think 
this semester you only need $4,000.00 rather than $6,000.00 or 
something. Would you guys like the ability to do that?
    Would you like the ability to prevent students from taking 
out what you think are excessive loans that they really do not 
need?
    Chairwoman Wilson. This is the Chair.
    Mr. Grothman.
    Mr. Grothman. Yes.
    Chairwoman Wilson. Time up.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. Could you not hear me or----
    Mr. Scott. You did not say who the question was aimed at.
    Mr. Grothman. I said any one of them, but okay, that is 
fine.
    Chairwoman Wilson. They can submit to the committee.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay.
    Chairwoman Wilson. Okay.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay.
    Chairwoman Wilson. Alrighty. I need to go to vote in 
another committee, so I am going to pass the gavel over to our 
Chair, Mr. Bobby Scott.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I will defer 
questions. Are there other committee members that want to ask 
questions? Who is next? Mr. Good, okay. Okay, I think the next 
is my distinguished colleague from--wait a minute we have Ms. 
Manning just showed up, so she will be--Ms. Manning, are you 
prepared to ask questions?
    Ms. Manning. Yes, I am. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Scott. The gentlelady from North Carolina is recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you very much and thank you for holding 
this important hearing. Dr. Teranishi, could you tell us more 
about why it is important that MSIs receive funding 
specifically for research and policy, particularly as it 
relates to improving institutional equity?
    Dr. Teranishi. Yes. Representative Manning, thank you for 
the question. I think there is a lot we can learn from 
AANAPISIs and other MSIs with regards to their role and 
function in higher education. I think that a greater investment 
of research that is targeted at the study of the Secretary of 
Higher Education is important. The Institute for Education 
Sciences they provide targeted support for MSIs, but a lot of 
times these programs are relegated to training students, as 
opposed to funding research.
    For AANAPISIs in particular, NSF's National Endowment for 
the Humanities, they have established grant programs for other 
MSIs, but they do not include AANAPISIs. I think funding for a 
focus on MSIs can yield insight for effective and innovative 
practices.
    I think we need to build that resource; the knowledge base 
in terms of the research on this sector of higher education. We 
also have a growing segment of the MSIs that are R1s. There is 
17 HSIs that are R1s that I mentioned earlier.
    Of these 17 R1s, MSIs 8 are eligible for AANAPISI, 17 R1 
HSIs, and we have 3 HSIs that are also members of the 
Association for American Universities. We have a growing 
concentration of research intensive Minority Serving 
Institutions, and I think this is a group of institutions that 
we can harness our capabilities to better inform the field.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you so much. Dr. Ramsey, I would like to 
turn to you. Your institution prides itself on preparing 
students to enter the STEM workforce. Can you share with us the 
work Medgar Evers does to support students in STEM education, 
and can you also elaborate on why it is so crucial that Medgar 
Evers addresses the need for people of color in the STEM 
workforce?
    Dr. Ramsey. Well, thank you for that question. Medgar Evers 
College is, I would say, an anomaly in that the greatest 
percentage of our students actually major in STEM areas. Our 
largest department at the college is biology, and we have some 
other programs that we are getting support with grants to help 
increase the students that are in the cyber area.
    It is so important because the students who are at schools 
such as Medgar Evers College will actually contribute to the 
Nation. As you know we want to be competitive as a Nation, and 
so if we have the students who are at the MSIs going into the 
STEM areas, that is going to help the Nation, and help the 
economy of the Nation.
    I am really proud of the fact that we have enough of our 
students who have graduated. We are, in addition to being No. 2 
in science at CUNY, we actually have the second highest 
percentage of students going on to graduate and professional 
schools. As you know for every degree, according to Labor and 
Statistics, it is going to give a family an additional 
$7,000.00 of income.
    It is so important for an institution such as us in a 
community that is an underserved community.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you so much for that. We spend a lot of 
timing talking about how important it is to invest in our 
students, to invest in students of color to make sure that they 
have the opportunity to have good paying jobs and contribute to 
our economy. We spend a lot of time talking about how we can 
better compete with China, and what you are doing contributes 
to both those things.
    Thank you so much for all your work, and with that Mr. 
Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Now my distinguished colleague from 
Virginia, Mr. Good.
    Mr. Good. Thank you, Chairman Scott, and thank you to our 
witnesses. Now with the chain link COVID fence protecting the 
Capitol, and we are assembling in large numbers on the House 
floor, and we finally recognize the uselessness of wearing 
masks, I look forward to Democrats joining us in person in this 
hearing room to do the work the people sent us here to do in a 
spirit of robust debate.
    Millions of Americans come to work every day, and we can 
certainly do the same. The last 2 years have reinforced the 
existing threat to our most fundamental precious of freedoms, 
in addition to the tremendous need for school choice. Parents 
have increasingly seen what is happening in their schools.
    That is why I introduced a Children Have Opportunities in 
Classrooms Everywhere, or CHOICE Act, which will allow families 
to deposit education funds into a 529 account to follow their 
student, the educational option of their choice.
    We need choice and freedom in higher education also to 
reduce wasteful spending and help provide the best possible 
instruction for students who are impacted by skyrocketing 
college costs. Education providers need less regulation when it 
comes to delivering the curriculums for their students, but 
unfortunately most colleges have to work through a maze of 
regulations and policies that serve to only increase costs for 
their students.
    Dr. Davidson, can you speak to the provisions in current 
law or regulations that are particularly burdensome and heavy 
handed and actually serve to inhibit or diminish your efforts 
to improve student outcomes, and offer programs at an 
affordable cost?
    Dr. Davidson. Well, I will say that regulations and such do 
require us to have some overhead so that we can generate those 
data and submit all these requirements. That is true. I cannot 
pinpoint any one particular thing that is so overly burdensome, 
but one of the things is about the way we report our data. It 
takes a lot to get all the data right, and the questions that 
are asked from Washington should be questions that are relevant 
to the experiences of our students.
    I think also one of our other witnesses talked about the 
burden of the IPEDS data that is tracking just a small 
percentage of the students that go to our MSIs, first time 
full-time freshmen, as opposed to so many of our students who 
are transfer students and working adults.
    I think that if we are going to really do right by our 
students across the Nation, it will start tracking with things 
that matter.
    Mr. Good. Unfortunately, the Coronavirus has led to many 
colleges, like some congressional offices, shutting down and 
harming countless students who are seeking an in-person college 
education. Treating them, college students, like senior 
citizens with multiple comorbidity factors.
    Dr. Davidson, can you speak to the importance of college 
students receiving an in person, in classroom education?
    Dr. Davidson. We strive at MSU Denver to offer our students 
whatever sort of flexible options that they need. Some of our 
students, many of our students, do prefer the in-person, and I 
think some have stopped out for a while because of that.
    That said, some of our students have been presently 
surprised that online education has been very useful for them, 
and now that in the post-COVID world where their lives have 
been disrupted, and their kids are in and out of school, and 
they are working, they are also taking online courses.
    What I think higher education needs to innovate, so that we 
can meet students where they are.
    Mr. Good. I think that your point illustrates that we need 
choice and freedom that the students and the colleges should be 
deciding, we should not have onerous burdensome regulation from 
the Federal Government telling us whether or not we can open 
our colleges and let our students learn in person or in State 
governments. Thank you, Dr. Davidson, thank you to all of our 
witnesses, Chairman, I do yield back.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Next is the gentleman from Texas, Mr. 
Castro.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairman. As a diverse and growing 
number of the U.S. population continues to reach for a college 
education, it is vital that we examine how the institutions 
tasked with preparing future generations for a global economy 
are doing, what they are doing to expand opportunity, 
particular for students from low-income backgrounds.
    Hispanic Serving Institutions, and other Minority Serving 
Institutions play an important role in lifting their students 
from the bottom to the top of the economic distribution in our 
country. In fact, research shows that MSIs are more successful 
in boosting the economy mobility of their students than non-
MSIs, and so I have a few questions here during my time.
    First, Dr. Rivera, in your testimony you mentioned that 
while there has been significant progress, students from low-
income backgrounds continue to lag behind their high-income 
peers attending college. Can you share how HSIs are working 
with the regional students to close gaps in college attendance, 
and not only college attendance, but also retention and 
completion?
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. Thank you, Congressman Castro. HSIs are 
trying to do the best they can to meet students where they are, 
and to ensure that those students are given every opportunity 
to not only develop the aspirations to go to college, but also 
be prepared and supportive once they get there. I will give you 
an example from Northern Arizona University, who has just 
recently designated as an HSI this past year.
    When we looked at our admission requirements and compared 
that to the high school graduation requirements across the 
State, we noticed that there were 50,000 students, primarily in 
rural communities, and primarily of minority backgrounds, that 
only had access in their high school to the 14 courses that are 
required for high school graduation, whereas our university 
required 16 courses to be admitted.
    We have entered into a pilot program where now if a student 
completes high school with a 3.0 GPA, they are guaranteed 
admission to NAU, and then it will be up to NAU to ensure that 
we are providing them the supports that they need to be 
successful. We have also found that one of the obstacles, and 
this has been mentioned earlier, is that there is no clear 
messaging around the actual affordability of our institutions.
    The fact of the matter is that the sticker price is almost 
always at odds with the actual net costs that our students pay. 
Here at NAU, we are looking to clarify to our price positioning 
and financial aid packaging, that if you're a student that 
comes from a household with a particular level of income, NAU 
has evaluation requirements, you are not only guaranteed 
admission to NAU, but you will also expect zero dollars out of 
pocket for tuition and fees.
    We are also making sure that our curriculum is reflecting 
of the needs of the communities that we are trying to serve, 
that our student support services to get them through 
graduation are well aligned and culturally relevant, and we are 
doing more while we have them with us to not only give them a 
degree upon graduation, but also some sort of experience, a 
degree clause if you will, undergraduate research, study 
abroad, internships, that will position them better for post-
college outcomes once they graduate.
    That is the work that HSIs need to do, and that we are very 
excited to be part of that community.
    Mr. Castro. Great. Let me ask one more question, because I 
just have about a minute and a half, but the Hispanic 
Association of Colleges and Universities published a report in 
September 2021, that outlines the need for increased Federal 
fundings for HSIs to improve their educational capacity.
    In other words, the number of students that they can serve. 
As we come out of this pandemic, how can we be sure that HSIs 
are not left behind as they continue to educate and serve their 
students and community, while they themselves, continue to be 
federally underfunded?
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. That is a great question. The fact of the 
matter is that we not only have to provide access to the 
students, but we have to provide access to excellence, and so 
we have to do this at the same time that we have to expand and 
broaden participation. Additional funding for HSIs in 
particular, who, when you look at the overall landscape in 
higher ed, you see significantly less money per student will be 
of increasing importance.
    The fact of the matter is that in order for us to, once 
again, lead the world in educational attainment, we need 6.2 
million more Hispanics to earn degrees in the near future.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you. With that Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Scott. Oh, thank you. Next, we will have the gentleman 
from Kentucky. Mr. Comer you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Davidson, I serve 
as the Ranking Member of the House Oversight and Reform 
Committee where we focus on government efficiency, 
accountability, transparency. We try to root out waste fraud 
abuse, and mismanagement in the Federal Government.
    I recognize the need for institutions to be accountable for 
any taxpayer funding provided to them. Are there any changes 
you would like to see in a potential Higher Education Act 
reauthorization regarding the amount of administrative burden, 
we are affording on universities, and where there is innovation 
like the stackable credentials you mentioned, which we should 
be focusing on in higher education?
    Dr. Davidson. Thank you for your question and concern about 
efficiency. Higher education in America because of so much of 
the disinvestment is incredibly efficient, despite the 
requirements of reporting and what not. I will go back to what 
I said before. I think it is important that we are held 
accountable for the funding that we receive from the 
government, and for our outcomes.
    I will also say that we should make sure that we are 
measuring what matters. If you are only counting a certain 
number of students, and a certain kind of environment, and then 
applying it to other kinds of universities, MSIs in particular, 
to which those are less relevant, then you are not really 
getting what you need from us.
    I would say looking for ways to measure what matters, so 
that you can actually hold us accountable for the mission that 
we are actually doing in service to so many Americans that are 
trying to reach their dreams.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you, Dr. Davidson. One of my biggest 
complaints with higher education is the lack of coordination 
between the universities and the private sector in developing a 
curriculum that is needed in today's society. That is the 
biggest complaint I would hear from job creators is you know we 
get these kids right out of college, and they do not have any 
skills that apply to us.
    I believe institutions should be partnering with industry 
to develop curriculum relevant to the needs of their region, 
and every region is different. What do you consider when 
evaluating the potential of industry partnerships to meet the 
needs and capacity of employers while providing well-paying 
jobs for MSU students upon graduation?
    Dr. Davidson. Sure. Whether or not we are providing the 
right kind of talent for industry is for the industry to decide 
really. What we try to do at MSU Denver is the reason we 
created our classroom to career hub with industry partnership 
program, so that we can reach out to those industry partners 
and bring them in and say listen, what is happening in the 
industry, what do you need.
    How can we partner to co-create curriculum that matters, 
and even more importantly, co-create experiential learning 
opportunities, paid internship opportunities, apprenticeship 
models and co-ops that allow our students to get relevant work 
experience toward their career before they graduate, so that 
when they graduate the jobs that they are taking make so much 
sense.
    We have industry partners who have partnered with us and 
done this, and higher 80 to 90 percent of those graduates, and 
they love it because they say straight out what you just said, 
we love hiring MSU Denver graduates because we know what they 
are learning because we helped them design the curriculum. In 
many cases, they are adjuncts here as well.
    Mr. Comer. Good deal. Well, I think that is the key, that 
is one way that I think universities should measure success. A 
year later where is this graduate? What job do they have, and 
is that pertaining to the education that they received, their 
major, their minor, their certification whatever, and what's 
their salary? To me that is a good way to monitor success in 
universities.
    Some universities do it. Unfortunately, others do not, but 
hopefully we can continue to expand the certification process 
in the university, some universities have embraced that, others 
have not. Also, I am a big believer in cooperatives, co-ops and 
internships, and I think that is great because it is all about 
getting that suit up ready to be successful in their career 
path, whatever career that may be.
    Thank you for being here today. I thank all the witnesses, 
and Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Next the gentlelady from Washington, 
Ms. Jayapal.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Minority Serving 
Institutions have remarkable track records of improving 
economic mobility for low-income students of color. Students at 
MSIs are more than twice as likely to experience upward 
mobility than those at non-MSIs.
    In King County, in the district I represent, AANAPISIs like 
the Seattle Colleges and Shoreline Community College have 
propelled low-income students into economic success by offering 
tuition free degrees through the Seattle Promise and the 
Washington College Grant.
    By investing in programs that reduce or eliminate cost 
barriers, MSIs are able to help more low-income students of 
color succeed without the burden of student loan debt. Dr. Cruz 
Rivera, in your testimony you discussed the importance of the 
Pell grant. Since the Pell grant was established, it has gone 
from covering 75 percent of the cost of attending a public 4-
year institution, to only 30 percent. What does this mean for 
your students?
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman 
Jayapal. It means that our students, even if they are eligible 
for the Pell grant programs still incur insignificant unmet 
need and this unmet need then needs to be addressed through 
either a significant amount of work that takes them away from 
their studies, and/or loan debt that could also have an 
implication in their ability to succeed post-graduation.
    That is the current State of affairs right now.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. At our HBCU hearing a witness 
stated that we need a true public option in terms of free 
college to support economic mobility. Rhode Island has a 
tuition-free program that tripled its graduation rate, and it 
was ninefold for students of color.
    The Arizona Promise is another tuition free program, and it 
is fairly new. Would a Federal investment in the Arizona 
Promise support economic mobility for your low-income students 
of color, Dr. Rivera?
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. It would. It would go a long way toward 
allowing us to expand the number of students that could get 
access to the Arizona Promise program, and also could have the 
potential of allowing us to go beyond tuition and fees, and 
going to the realm of total cost of attendance which is so 
important at the end of the day to ensure that our students are 
graduating in a good position to advance their careers.
    Ms. Jayapal. Incredibly important to have that 
comprehensive set of services included. Dr. Teranishi, Congress 
added a question on race to the FAFSA that captures the racial 
group specified on the Census Bureau's American Community 
Survey, which would include subgroups within the Asian 
American, Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander Community.
    Why is this kind of disaggregated data, this level of 
disaggregated data, important to understanding the outcomes, 
and how can it help institutions and policymakers support 
students?
    Dr. Teranishi. Thank you Representative Jayapal. Data is an 
essential tool for assessing the impact of educational 
resources and programs, as well as for capturing gaps in 
educational participation of representation. For the AAPI 
community, basically what is happening is that aggregated data 
is concealing the unique needs and challenges of ethnic 
subgroups.
    There are significant disparities in college participation, 
and degree attainment, as well as differences in access to 
utilization of programs and services, such as access to 
financial aid. The lack of disaggregated data is a key barrier 
to policy and program development that advances the equitable 
treatment for the AAPI community.
    As I mentioned, you know I really do think it is one of the 
most important civil rights issues for the AAPI community 
because it is rendering a lot of marginalize vulnerable groups 
within the population invisible. Now is the time to address 
this issue given the fact that you know data driven decisions 
are more prevalent than ever.
    Ms. Jayapal. I cannot say how important that answer is, and 
for people to understand, and being the first and the only 
South Asian American woman, I am constantly having to explain 
that Asia is a very, very big place. You add all the different 
pieces that are part of the classifications that are on the 
forms, and you miss all of the specific information that you 
need to cater to different minority communities that speak by 
the way dozens and dozens and dozens of languages, that are all 
different.
    We really miss the opportunity to tailor our work to these 
communities in the AAPI community. Really excited that you 
raised that, and also want to say you know I think this is--
this hearing is important for us to remember the importance of 
doubling the Pell grant because a lot of our students that need 
this the most really need that doubling, with that I yield 
back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady from Louisiana, Ms. 
Letlow.
    Mrs. Letlow. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and to all the 
witnesses thank you for taking the time to testify before the 
committee today. I appreciate you sharing about innovation 
occurring at your institutions and making policy 
recommendations on what Congress can do to help you continue 
serving minority students.
    My questions today are for Dr. Davidson. Dr. Davidson, it 
is no secret that the United States is facing a significant 
workforce shortage. Even prior to disruptions caused by COVID, 
there were 7 million unfilled jobs, and unfortunately that 
number has grown even more.
    To address skilled worker shortage, many Republicans have 
supported policies to expand Pell grant eligibility for short-
term credential programs. What are your thoughts on expanding 
Pell eligibility for these sorts of programs, and if such a 
policy were enacted, can you discuss how they would benefit 
both MSIs and the students they serve?
    Dr. Davidson. Well, the Pell program has been 
transformational for generations of Americans, and especially 
at MSI where so many of our students are also low-income. About 
30 percent of our students qualify for Pell, and then there is 
that section of like what we call that mirky middle.
    One of the issues we do have is that a lot of times 
students are coming back just to upskill, and because they're 
not considered degree seeking or full-time, they do not always 
qualify for the kinds of Federal aid that could be out there 
for other students, and given what you just described about the 
nature of our economy, and students that are needed to come in 
and out and upskill and go back, we really should think about 
expanding opportunity for those sorts of programs for students 
who are seeking non-traditional paths.
    Mrs. Letlow. Thank you. Thank you for your statement. Dr. 
Davidson the COVID-19 pandemic caused massive disruptions to 
nearly every industry, including higher ed, and it also 
accelerated many of the fundamental transformations in post-
secondary education that were already beginning to surface 
prior to the pandemic.
    In your testimony you mentioned that your institution used 
COVID-19 relief dollars to build the infrastructure needed to 
support this transformation. Can you discuss further where you 
see higher ed heading, and how MSU is adapting to this new 
reality?
    Dr. Davidson. Absolutely. We pivoted online in the spring 
of 2020 like everybody else did, and our professors, and our 
students, and I was teaching a class at the time, learned that 
wow, you can actually do a lot more online than a lot of people 
thought. That was just with basic pivoting the class that you 
already designed into an online mode.
    What we decided was that we knew the pandemic was not going 
to go away, and we decided we were going to go 90 percent 
online in the fall, and we spent the summer investing those 
Federal dollars in upgrading our IT backbone. A lot of people 
do not realize what goes into it to make a good, or an 
excellent online course.
    In conjunction with that we also spent money to train our 
professors, many of whom had never taught an online course, to 
show them how they can do it, and how they can do it in a 
really excellent way. My not-so-secret hidden agenda was that 
that would catapult us into another phase in the post-COVID 
environment, and it surely has with so many students whose 
lives have been disrupted, going back to work, and trying to 
also get back through college.
    They are going to need more flexible options. Our academic 
transformation plan for the future is to leverage this 
skillset, and this new awareness of what we can do in the 
online space to offer students opportunity. My dream would be 
that a student could take any course in any modality that fit 
into their lives so that they can get to their dream.
    Mrs. Letlow. Thank you so much, Dr. Davidson. I really 
appreciate your answers. Mr. Chairman I yield back the 
remainder of my time.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady from Oregon Ms. 
Bonamici.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you so much Chair Scott, and thank you 
to Chair Wilson and Ranking Member Miller-Meeks as well, but 
especially thank you to the witnesses for being here, for 
bringing your expertise to this important hearing. Minority 
Serving Institutions, including Umpqua Community College and 
Pacific University in Northwest Oregon, serve an important role 
in expanding opportunities for historically under-represented 
student populations.
    There are several things that we can do to set up more 
students to succeed and to thrive in higher education, 
including increasing resources to engage parents and families 
of first-generation students who may otherwise be unaware of 
post-secondary pathways, increasing resources for financial aid 
and background services for students and their families.
    I had a meeting, a virtual meeting yesterday with students 
in Oregon who were talking about the importance of the Pell 
grant and how doubling the Pell grant would make a significant 
difference. As Representative Jayapal pointed out, the Pell 
grant is not meeting the needs that it used to over the years.
    My first question is for Dr. Teranishi. You noted in your 
research that many students of color, and low-income students 
attending Minority Serving Institutions face various challenges 
prior to even setting foot on a college campus. What are some 
of those challenges? What role should institutions of higher 
education play to specifically address those challenges, and 
how can Congress help?
    Dr. Teranishi. Yes, thank you very much for the question, 
and I guess I will respond to that question in the context of 
aid. One thing that we have observed through our research is 
the extent to which low-income, first generation AAPI college 
students are low numbers.
    They are approaching their education I guess as a pay as 
you go pathway, and they are working multiple jobs. They are 
working you know just a high number of hours per week. A lot of 
times they are also put in a position where they have to help 
out in terms of needs and their families at home.
    Ms. Bonamici. Right, right.
    Dr. Teranishi. You know so there are multiple barriers that 
they are facing, and a lot of these things are interconnected, 
but institutions need to learn more about what those barriers 
are, and how to address those unique needs and challenges.
    AANAPISIs are put in a position where they could use the 
resources they are getting from the Federal Government to build 
their capacity to, you know, I guess test--experiment with ways 
of better understanding where their students are and how to 
serve them, and then institutionalizing those best practices.
    Ms. Bonamici. That makes sense. Thank you so much. I found 
that programs like TRIO really make a difference. Dr. Ramsey, 
diversity is not limited to an institution student body. 
Fostering diversity among faculty and staff has shown to create 
a stronger sense of belonging among students of color on 
campus.
    What efforts should Predominantly Black Institutions and 
other Minority Serving Institutions do to help create that 
pipeline for faculty and staff of color?
    Dr. Ramsey. Well, thank you for that question. Diversity is 
very important to any institution in my opinion because the 
students that you have at your institution in many ways should 
look very similar to the faculty and the staff that you have at 
that institution because the research has shown that students 
do better in that regard.
    At our institution we are a Predominantly Black 
Institution, but the thing that is very interesting about us is 
that we have many different cultures at this institution, and I 
really like it when I heard the Congresswoman say that in 
Southeast Asia you have people that are putting people in 
pretty much a lump, and then there are all these different 
languages.
    We have that same kind of thing that happens. Diversity 
happens in many different ways, and so you could look at a call 
to diversity, but also a group that people often forget about 
is those people with special needs. It is very, very important 
because it helps encourage those students to do their best.
    Ms. Bonamici. That is great. We are doing some great work 
out in Oregon with the sort of grow your own programs, 
particularly in the Latinx community, encouraging students to 
go into teaching, so they can go and then teach in institutions 
where we have high populations of students of color.
    Well, thank you so much. I have just a few seconds left, 
and I am going to yield back the balance of my time. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. I recognize myself for questions. I 
will begin by just pointing out to our witnesses, I think just 
about all have endorsed doubling the Pell grant. I point out 
that doubling the Pell grant will not even get us back to where 
we were in the 1970's where it was covering 75 percent. We need 
about two and a half times the present Pell grant to get there.
    We do have support. The President mentioned significant 
increases of Pell grants in his State of the Union last night, 
so we are going to do the best we can to make sure those 
increases take place. Dr. Davidson you mentioned improving the 
FAFSA form. We thought we had done that already. Do you have 
specific suggestions as to how we could further simply the 
FAFSA form?
    Dr. Davidson. Well, the speedy implementation of the 
reforms that you have already done have been very, very 
helpful. Like I said, we spend a lot of time helping students 
fill these forms out. One of the other innovations I think 
people talk about is maybe linking this to your taxes, so it is 
not this transfer of all this information that goes on.
    It is very hard for our students to have to go and track 
down their parent's tax returns and those sorts of things. From 
their perspective, it is the Federal Government asking for its 
own information, sort of inefficient.
    Mr. Scott. I think some of the tax coordination is 
presently available. The question is whether you can get 
permission to get there. Work studies--should we limit work 
study opportunities to areas relevant to your curriculum?
    Dr. Davidson. I am for Work Study opportunities in every 
area. Almost anything that our students are doing in our work 
study environment is enhancing their educational experience, 
whether you call it soft or essential skills, or skills that 
are directly related to an engineering degree. It is all very 
relevant.
    Mr. Scott. Okay. Thank you. Dr. Ramsey, I want to 
congratulate you on your academic credentials, particularly 
those that are decorated with green and gold.
    Dr. Ramsey. Thank you.
    Mr. Scott. Can you--you indicated that you get no credit 
for graduation for part-time students that do not have time and 
take seven or 8 years, you get no credit for transfers, or 
those who even start in the spring. I think we need to look at 
that, but can you tell us with more resources what kind of 
evidence-based programs you could actually fund to make a 
difference in helping people graduate?
    Dr. Ramsey. Yes, thank you for that question. We are 
looking very closely at what we can do to help the students in 
this community in particular. One of the things that we did was 
to--since we set that, write a proposal, some people on my team 
and I, and submitted it to the mayor's office, and we were able 
to get the largest grant in the history of the college, roughly 
at 20 million dollars to help provide wrap around services for 
the students and for high impact practices.
    What we are using the funds for is for scholarships for 
students, and the thing about I have been listening to the Pell 
conversations, the thing about it is with the tuition being 
paid, with students that are in an urban area like Brooklyn, 
those students need to have a way to be able to get to the 
school as well, and so we are providing them with Metrocards, 
as well as with funding for books.
    Then related to the students and how they are to actually 
be successful when they go out into the work world, we have the 
Brooklyn Recovery which is an initiative that is a part of that 
fund that we received, where we are sending students out to 
partners, and those partners--we have a number of partners 
actually, and those partners are actually providing real world 
experience for those students.
    We are paying the students, and so they are partnering with 
non-profit and with small businesses, and so we are helping the 
community as well as helping our students with that.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Let me ask Dr. Rivera, you mentioned 
evidence-based programs in need of funding. Can you mention 
some of those, and if you do not have time in 30 seconds, 
provide us the kinds of programs you could fund with additional 
resources?
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. Sure. I will just State given the time 
limit, and we will submit more details later that we are 
generally talking about high impact practices, things that we 
know that work like supplemental instruction, peer mentoring, 
undergraduate research, internship opportunities, exponential 
learning, those sorts of programs have been shown to 
disproportionately impact the under-represented and underserved 
students to graduate, and those are the things that we need 
some funding to scale up.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you so much. My time has expired. I do not 
think there are any other members of the subcommittee that are 
seeking recognition, but we do have a member of the committee 
who was very interested in the subject matter and has asked to 
participate, Dr. Adams from North Carolina has worked in this 
area for a long time, particularly with HBCUs, and Dr. Adams 
you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Adams. Thank you, thank you Chair Scott, and also to 
Chair Wilson, and Ranking Member Miller-Meeks, thank you for 
hosting today, and to our witnesses as well. Thank you for 
allowing me to waive on today. The conversation is one that is 
important to me. I am a two-time graduate of an HBCU, spent 40 
years teaching and as an administrator in HBCU, and currently 
the founder and co-chair of the bipartisan HBCU Caucus.
    Our schools, and I mean a lot, and including our HBCUs and 
HSIs and TCUs, AANAPISIs, NASNTIs and ANNHs, but they have been 
neglected and ignored and under resourced by the Federal 
Government for much too long, and so I am announcing that we 
will be introducing my signature legislation, the IGNITE HBCU 
Excellence Act as the IGNITE HBCU and MSI Excellence Act.
    My first question goes to--let us see, Dr. Cruz Rivera, Dr. 
Ramsey, and Teranishi. In your testimony, all three of you 
agreed on the following: That your institutions need to improve 
their research infrastructure, so if you could briefly tell us 
what Federal resources do you currently have access to that 
would allow you to improve your campus and research 
infrastructure, and is it sufficient for your current needs? 
That would be to each of you.
    Dr. Cruz Rivera. Thank you, Congresswoman Adams. Right now, 
we have from the standpoint of research infrastructure access 
to funds from NSF, NIH, Department of Defense, that are 
targeted to specific areas of inquiry, and provide also funds 
for major research implementation grants.
    The issue here is that our HSIs and MSIs more broadly 
across the United States really have been underfunded from an 
equity perspective, compared to non-MSIs, and so we do need 
some infusions of funding so that we can accelerate progress 
and get our infrastructure up to par.
    Not only because we are interested in advancing research 
from an applied, or a basic standpoint, because a lot of the 
research that we do also takes care of the regions that we 
served. At Northern Arizona University we work very closely 
with our Native community.
    We work very closely with ensuring that we can eradicate 
health disparities among different groups of people. We work 
very closely with land and water management. The extent we can 
have some direct infusions to compensate for past inequities, I 
think we will be able to better serve the Nation.
    Ms. Adams. Great.
    Dr. Ramsey.
    Dr. Ramsey. Yes. Thank you for that. We are able to get 
funding through grants, and that has been very, very helpful. 
One of the things I discovered, and we have an excellent 
science building program over here with much equipment that's 
really, really great, but it would be helpful if we could get 
funding to actually support that equipment because the 
equipment needs to have maintenance, and that is a challenge 
for us because with science equipment it's very, very costly 
for maintenance.
    If we were able to get additional funding from the Federal 
Government to help support us with the maintenance of that 
equipment, as well as actually doing the project, it would be 
very, very helpful.
    Ms. Adams. Okay thank you. To the last witness, Dr. 
Teranishi, can you quickly, we are running out of time, and I 
do want to hear from you.
    Dr. Teranishi. Yes, thank you. I spoke with the Rise in 
Minority Serving Research Institutions within the UC system, 
there are--five of the nine undergrad enrolling campuses are 
now designated HSIs. There is a lot of talent and expertise 
within these institutions in terms of their research 
capabilities, and we are in the process of exploring what it 
means to be Hispanic serving, research intensive institution, 
as opposed to just a Hispanic enrolling institution.
    I think there are a lot of opportunities to build and 
strengthen our research capacity in the area, and also to 
establish a better working relationship with our other 
institutions in the State, including community colleges and the 
CSU system.
    Ms. Adams. Thank you. I just want to before I close, Mr. 
Chairman, just to say that the legislation that I am proposing 
for HBCUs and MSIs would do just the kinds of things that these 
folks spoke about in terms of their needs, and so I would 
certainly hope that we can champion this bill, and get the 
legislation marked up. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I 
yield back.
    Mr. Scott. Well, thank you, and I want to thank our 
witnesses. I do not think there is anyone else seeking 
recognition to ask questions, so I am going to remind my 
colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, materials for 
submission for the hearing record must be submitted to the 
committee clerk within 14 days following the last day of the 
hearing, so that would be by close of business on March 16, 
preferably in Microsoft Word format.
    The materials submitted must address the subject matter of 
the hearing, and only a member of the subcommittee, or an 
invited witness may submit materials for inclusion in the 
hearing record. Documents are limited to 50 pages each. 
Documents longer than 50 pages will be incorporated into the 
record by way of an internet link, so that you must provide to 
the committee clerk within the required timeframe, but please 
recognize that in the future that link may no longer work.
    Pursuant to House rules and regulations, items for the 
record should be submitted to the committee clerk 
electronically by emailing submission to 
edandlabor.hearing@mail.house.gov. Again, I want to thank our 
witnesses for their participation today. Members of the 
subcommittee may have some additional questions for you, and we 
ask witnesses to please respond to those questions in writing, 
and the committee hearing record will be held open for 14 days 
in order to receive those responses.
    I remind my colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, 
witness questions for the hearings must be submitted to the 
majority committee staff, or committee clerk within 7 days and 
the questions submitted must address the subject matter of the 
hearing.
    Does the ranking member left, the gentleman from Idaho wish 
to make a statement?
    Mr. Fulcher. No Mr. Chairman, thank you.
    Mr. Scott. Okay. I know recognize myself for the purpose of 
making a closing statement. I want to thank our witnesses for 
their testimony. Today we discussed the important role that 
Minority Serving Institutions play in expanding access to 
higher education and propelling the underserved student into 
the middle class and beyond.
    Unfortunately, as our witnesses shared, many MSIs continue 
to be left under resourced, forcing them to do more with less, 
and the dynamic has only worsened the financial strain. To help 
MSIs recover from the pandemic, Congress has already delivered 
more than 26 billion dollars in dedicated Federal COVID relief 
aid, however we know that our work to support these 
institutions cannot end there.
    We must secure enhanced and sustained funding so that MSIs 
can continue fulfilling the promise of higher education for 
generations to come. Moreover, in light in the deplorable 
threats that have been received at HBCUs and terrorized the 
students, staff, and faculty, it is critical that Congress and 
the administration deliver the support to both HBCUs and MSIs 
to support students' safety and success.
    I look forward to working with my colleagues on this 
committee, and all the relevant stakeholders to ensure the 
institutions not only survive but continue to thrive and grow 
for decades to come. Again, I want to thank our witnesses for 
being with us today, and if there is no further business to 
come before the committee, without objection the subcommittee 
stands adjourned. Thank you, and I want to thank our witnesses 
again.
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    [Whereupon, at 12:31 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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