[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                    INTERIOR, ENVIRONMENT, AND RELATED
                     AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2023

_______________________________________________________________________

                                 HEARINGS

                                 BEFORE A

                           SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE

                       COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

                         HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                     ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                              SECOND SESSION

                               __________

               SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERIOR, ENVIRONMENT, AND 
                            RELATED AGENCIES

                      CHELLIE PINGREE, Maine, Chair

  BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota		DAVID P. JOYCE, Ohio		
  DEREK KILMER, Washington		MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho
  JOSH HARDER, California		CHRIS STEWART, Utah
  SUSIE LEE, Nevada			MARK E. AMODEI, Nevada
  MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio
  MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania

  NOTE: Under committee rules, Ms. DeLauro, as chair of the full 
committee, and Ms. Granger, as ranking minority member of the full 
committee, are authorized to sit as members of all subcommittees.

                 Rita Culp, Jocelyn Hunn, Janet Erickson,
              Tyler Coe, Farouk Ophaso, and Marcel Caldwell
                            Subcommittee Staff

                               ___________

                                  PART 6

                                                                   Page
  National Tribal Organizations Public Witness Day................    1                                                                                                             
  Regional Tribal Organizations Public Witness Day................   39                                      
  Members' Day....................................................   83              
  U.S. Forest Service Budget Request for Fiscal Year 2023.........  103
  Department of the Interior Budget Request for Fiscal Year 2023..  151
  Environmental Protection Agency Budget Request for Fiscal Year 
  2023............................................................  179
  National Park Service Budget Request for Fiscal Year 2023.......  215                                                                    
  Arts and Humanities Budget Request for Fiscal Year 2023.........  245
                                  
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                             

                               ___________

          Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations
          
                      U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
49-399                         WASHINGTON : 2022                      
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------             

                        COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

                                ---------- 
                                
                  ROSA L. DeLAURO, Connecticut, Chair


  MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio			KAY GRANGER, Texas			
  DAVID E. PRICE, North Carolina	HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky	
  LUCILLE ROYBAL-ALLARD, California	ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama
  SANFORD D. BISHOP, Jr., Georgia	MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho
  BARBARA LEE, California		JOHN R. CARTER, Texas
  BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota		KEN CALVERT, California
  TIM RYAN, Ohio			TOM COLE, Oklahoma
  C. A. DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER, Maryland	MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida
  DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, Florida	STEVE WOMACK, Arkansas
  HENRY CUELLAR, Texas			JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska
  CHELLIE PINGREE, Maine		CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee
  MIKE QUIGLEY, Illinois	        JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER, Washington
  DEREK KILMER, Washington		DAVID P. JOYCE, Ohio
  MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania		ANDY HARRIS, Maryland
  GRACE MENG, New York			MARK E. AMODEI, Nevada
  MARK POCAN, Wisconsin			CHRIS STEWART, Utah
  KATHERINE M. CLARK, Massachusetts	STEVEN M. PALAZZO, Mississippi
  PETE AGUILAR, California		DAVID G. VALADAO, California
  LOIS FRANKEL, Florida			DAN NEWHOUSE, Washington
  CHERI BUSTOS, Illinois		JOHN R. MOOLENAAR, Michigan
  BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey	JOHN H. RUTHERFORD, Florida
  BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan		BEN CLINE, Virginia
  NORMA J. TORRES, California		GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
  CHARLIE CRIST, Florida		MIKE GARCIA, California
  ANN KIRKPATRICK, Arizona		ASHLEY HINSON, Iowa
  ED CASE, Hawaii			TONY GONZALES, Texas
  ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York		JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana
  JOSH HARDER, California
  JENNIFER WEXTON, Virginia
  DAVID J. TRONE, Maryland
  LAUREN UNDERWOOD, Illinois
  SUSIE LEE, Nevada

                 Robin Juliano, Clerk and Staff Director
       
                              (ii)
                              
 
     DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, ENVIRONMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES 
                        APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2023

                              ----------                              


                                            Tuesday, April 5, 2022.

            NATIONAL TRIBAL ORGANIZATIONS PUBLIC WITNESS DAY

                               WITNESSES

FAWN SHARP, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL CONGRESS OF AMERICAN INDIANS
JASON DROPIK, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL INDIAN EDUCATION ASSOCIATION
WILLIAM SMITH, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL INDIAN HEALTH BOARD
SONYA M. TETNOWSKI, PRESIDENT-ELECT, NATIONAL COUNCIL OF URBAN INDIAN 
    HEALTH
    Ms. Pingree. So I am very pleased to be the first to 
welcome everyone to the return of public witness hearings on 
tribal programs under the jurisdiction of the Interior and 
Environment Appropriations Subcommittee. Due to the ongoing 
pandemic, we are still not back to normal for public witness 
hearings. Prior to the pandemic, we were able to hold 2 days of 
hearings to receive testimony from individual tribes and tribal 
organizations. Last year, we were unable to hold any public 
witness hearings, but we received written testimony from 
tribes.
    While we are still not to pre-pandemic activities, I am 
pleased that this year we are having two virtual hearings, 
starting with today's hearing, to receive testimony from tribal 
organizations on national issues affecting Indian Country. This 
testimony will inform with the fiscal year 2023 annual 
appropriation. Our second hearing, which will take place 
tomorrow afternoon, will focus on regional Indian Country 
issues. As we did last year, we also solicited written 
testimony from individual tribes to focus on specific tribal 
priorities. That testimony was received last month.
    A lot has happened since we last met. The world was shut 
down by a pandemic, resulting in over 900,000 deaths in the 
U.S. alone, with devastating impacts in Indian Country. While 
the pandemic continues with vaccines and therapies, we are 
truly getting back to normal. We also have a new President in 
the White House focusing on addressing the pandemic, dealing 
with climate change, and honoring the Nation's treaty and trust 
responsibility to Native America by requesting investment in 
Indian Country. For fiscal year 2023, President Biden proposes 
$2.8 billion for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, $583 million 
above fiscal year 2022 enacted level. This includes much-needed 
increases of an additional $38 million for public safety and 
justice programs and construction projects.
    With over 55 million acres of land held in trust for 
tribes, Indian Country is poised to be a major player in the 
clean energy industry. The fiscal year 2023 budget proposes an 
additional $104 million for natural resources management 
programs to continue investments to address climate change and 
help Indian Country lead the way as we pivot to cleaner energy. 
Further, the budget proposes to reclassify contract support 
costs and payments for tribal leases as mandatory. For the 
Bureau of Indian Education, the President requests $4.5 
billion, which is $294 million above the fiscal year 2022 
enacted level.
    The President proposes to make substantial investment in 
education construction with a requested increase of $156 
million. The pandemic showcased the failures of current BIE 
education facilities. I recently met with leaders from the 
National Indian Education Association where we discussed the 
need for additional infrastructure investment. This requested 
increase will go towards addressing these needs. For the Indian 
Health Service, the President proposes to reclassify the entire 
budget as mandatory. This proposal is not within the 
subcommittee's jurisdiction. Although no discretionary funds 
were requested, I look forward to today's testimony on priority 
areas for Indian health.
    I am pleased to welcome back national tribal organizations 
to discuss the needs and challenges facing Indian Country. I am 
eager to learn more about Native Americans' national 
priorities, and I look forward to our discussions on these 
issues because I believe it will help to inform us as we begin 
to develop the 2023 appropriations bill.
    Each witness' full written statement will be introduced 
into the record, so please do not feel pressured to cover 
everything orally. After we hear the testimony of each witness 
on the panel, members will have an opportunity to ask 
questions.
    And with that, I am happy to yield to my friend, Mr. Joyce, 
for his remarks.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for 
continuing these important hearings to get input from our 
tribal leaders on a wide array of programs under this 
subcommittee's jurisdiction. I would like to extend a warm 
welcome to the distinguished tribal leaders testifying today. 
All of you have the difficult job of representing a diverse 
array of interests from hundreds of sovereign nations across 
the country.
    I represent the Northeast corner of Ohio, which once was 
the land of the Miami, Seneca and others. I am humbled to be 
joining you in my capacity as ranking member on the House 
Appropriations Subcommittee on Interior, Environment, and 
Related Agencies, and perhaps now more than ever with Indian 
Country recently losing a true leader on Capitol Hill with the 
passing of Congressman Don Young. Though not an official member 
of this subcommittee, he always looked forward to these annual 
tribal hearings and would occasionally join us at the hearing 
table. We will miss him, and as likely he would have wanted, we 
will endeavor to carry on his work on behalf of all American 
Indians and Alaska Natives.
    Like Don Young and many others in Congress, I recognize 
that upholding the tribal trust obligation is a responsibility 
shared by all members of Congress, regardless of congressional 
district. I also fully recognize that the Federal Government 
has a long way to go before fully meeting its trust and treaty 
obligations. That is why my position on the Appropriations 
Committee is a great honor, but it is also a heavy 
responsibility. Fortunately, I have a friend and partner in 
Chairwoman Pingree, and it is my sincere hope that, together, 
we will continue the hard work of our predecessors for more 
than a decade to increase the Federal commitment to meeting 
those trust and treaty obligations.
    So, I look forward to listening and learning from the 
testimony today and working with my chair and the rest of my 
colleagues in the days and weeks ahead to do what we can to 
help in the next fiscal year. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you, Mr. Joyce, and thank you so much 
for remembering our colleague, Don Young. He truly was a 
champion of Indian Country, and we will miss him, absolutely.
    Do any other members wish to make an opening statement?
    [No response.]
    Ms. Pingree. Okay. If not, we will turn to our witnesses.
    So we will begin with Ms. Fawn Sharp, president of the 
National Congress of American Indians. Thank you for joining us 
today. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Sharp. [Speaking native language.] Good morning, 
Chairwoman Pingree, Ranking Member Joyce, and members of the 
House Subcommittee. I am Fawn Sharp, vice president of the 
Quinault Indian Nation and president of the National Congress 
of American Indians. Thank you for the invitation to testify 
this morning.
    This subcommittee's jurisdiction includes some of the most 
critical funding for Indian Country. As detailed in the 2018 
``Broken Promises'' report, chronically underfunded and 
inefficiently-structured Federal programs have left some of the 
most basic obligations of the United States to tribal nations 
unmet for centuries. We call on this subcommittee and Congress 
to get behind the vision of tribal leaders for righting these 
wrongs by providing mandatory, full, and adequate funding for 
Indian Country.
    The President's fiscal year 2023 budget request is a 
historic shift in the paradigm of nation-to-nation 
relationships, one that seeks to restore the promises made to 
our ancestors. It includes mandatory funding for Indian Health 
Service, contract support costs, and Section 105(l) leases. 
Providing mandatory funding to these programs promotes the 
opportunity for a tribal-nation-driven approach to serving our 
communities and citizens.
    Under the current discretionary spending model at IHS, the 
per-patient investment is about 56 percent less than the 
national health spending per capita. At an average age of 37 
years old, IHS hospitals are nearly 4 times the age of hospital 
facilities nationwide. It would take nearly 400 years to 
replace and update these facilities with the funding currently 
provided.
    We see the same staggering issues for education. The 
weighted student unit for the Bureau of Indian Education School 
System is approximately half that of public schools. Further, 
DOI recently rated 86 schools in poor condition with an 
estimated cost of $5.1 billion for replacement. Last month, the 
NCAI board toured the Casa Blanca Community School, a BIE 
school built by the Gila River Indian Community using the 
Section 105 lease program. This state-of-the-art school was 
built in record time with input from the entire community. As 
soon as the children step off the bus, they are grounded and 
surrounded by their culture, their language, and their stories, 
and it fully includes their educational environment. Mandatory 
funding for the 105(l) lease program means empowering tribal 
nations to build the bright future we all see for Indian 
Country.
    Turning to law and justice, the safety of our communities 
is in crisis and of the utmost importance. The 2019 ``Tribal 
Law and Order Act'' report to Congress estimates the need for 
BIA public safety and justice programs at $2.73 billion, 5 
times the amount of funding provided in 2022. With tribal 
nations' criminal jurisdiction being further restored in the 
recent reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act and 
beyond, Indian Country must be provided the necessary funding 
to protect our communities.
    Finally, with the long history of Federal Indian policies, 
many tribal lands have been placed in the hands of the Federal 
Government with the trust responsibility to conserve and 
protect them. However, tribal nations' voices have been heard, 
and we are now assuming greater roles of stewardship and co-
management of public lands. These opportunities demonstrate 
creative management solutions through tribal-Federal 
partnerships. This subcommittee must continue to increase 
resources provided for tribal co-management of Federal land. It 
is essential for tribal nations to bring our solutions, our 
traditional ecological knowledge to the table with Federal 
partners to combat the climate change crisis.
    From what we have seen over the last few years and what we 
have known all along, when tribal nations are provided the 
parity and deference to provide programs and services, we see 
substantial, positive changes within our communities. NCAI 
urges the subcommittee to work with the Budget Committee to 
fund mandatory obligations through mandatory Federal spending, 
and provide funding for programs commensurate to those 
obligations and not just the status quo.
    Tribal nations are resilient, and we have demonstrated our 
resolve and dedication since time immemorial. We expect to 
continue to be treated as sovereign nations and with government 
parity and equity. When we work together, we have proven we can 
achieve more than we thought possible. We must now continue 
down the path of nation-to-Nation growth, and only then will 
all of our people truly be able to flourish.
    [Speaking native language.] Thank you for your time, and I 
am happy to answer any questions.
    [The statement of Ms. Sharp follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much for your testimony.
    Next, we will hear from Mr. Jason Dropik, president of the 
National Indian Education Association. Thank you so much for 
joining us today.
    Mr. Dropik. Chair Pingree, Ranking Member Joyce, and 
members of the subcommittee. [Speaking native language.] Thank 
you for this opportunity to provide testimony on behalf of the 
National Indian Education Association.
    [Speaking native language.] Good morning. My name is 
[Speaking native language], Jason Dropik, serving as president 
of the National Indian Education Association, but I get the 
unique opportunity to also serve as head of the Indian 
Community School in Franklin, Wisconsin, right outside of 
Milwaukee, serving indigenous youth and getting to see the 
impact of what a cultural-based education can do for students 
and their futures.
    NIEA is the most inclusive national native organization 
advocating for culture-based educational opportunities for 
American Indians, Alaska Natives, and Native Hawaiians. Each 
day, our organization equips tribal leaders, educators, and 
advocates to prepare the over 700,000 native students across 
the Nation for success in the classroom and beyond. Native 
education is a bipartisan effort, rooted in the Federal trust 
responsibility to tribal nations and their citizens. NIEA 
thanks the subcommittee for its ongoing commitment to 
fulfilling this constitutional responsibility by advancing 
native education programs and services in fiscal year 2023. In 
particular, we appreciate the subcommittee's oversight of 
Bureau of Indian Education programs and services to native 
students.
    Since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, the national 
education landscape has shifted dramatically. The spread of 
COVID-19 throughout tribal communities shined a spotlight and 
exacerbated existing educational inequities for native 
students. Tribal nations acted quickly to save lives and 
continued educating our youth, often without the structures, 
resources, and means to do so. Fully funding native education 
within the Bureau of Indian Education in fiscal year 2023 is 
essential to ensuring that native students have access to 
resources to recover and thrive after the pandemic and into 
their futures.
    Fiscal year 2023 recommendations we have. As the 
subcommittee considers funding levels for the coming fiscal 
year, NIEA urges Congress to consider the full scope of need 
for education programs in the Department of Interior through 
the Bureau of Indian Education and Bureau of Indian Affairs. 
Congress must continue to invest in and oversee education 
programs central to the cultural and academic progress of 
native students. Such measures are critical to ensure that 
native students have access to these resources. Those resources 
are necessary for their survival. From competitive salaries for 
highly-effective, culturally-competent educators, through the 
Indian School's Equalization Program, to the infrastructure of 
a modern classroom, to native language and culture-based 
programs, Federal appropriations are vital to ensuring equity 
for the only students to which the Federal Government has a 
direct responsibility: native students.
    At this time, I would like to highlight just several of 
NIEA's key appropriation priorities for fiscal year 2023.
    Bureau-funded schools must be appropriated at least $440 
million for urgent school construction and repair. NIEA 
appreciates recent steps to address immediate infrastructure, 
especially in light of more than the 2-year pandemic. However, 
funding continues to fall far short of the total need. In 2016, 
the Office of the Inspector General at the Department of 
Interior found that it would cost $430 million to address 
immediate facility repairs in BIE. Those are immediate repairs. 
Our request is modest when taking into account inflation since 
2016. The President's budget request for fiscal year 2023 is 
only $420 million, far short of what is critically needed.
    The Indian School Equalization Program--ISEP--should be 
fully funded at $500.7 million for the fiscal year 2023 
Presidential budget request. ISEP funds the core budget account 
for BIE elementary and secondary schools. Through this program, 
schools receive funding to pay teachers and other personnel 
salaries. While ISEP is funded at approximately $2 million per 
school, each public school across the country receives, on 
average, $6 million for salaries, wages, and employee benefits. 
Each year, schools are forced to stretch limited ISEP funds 
further to fulfill regulations that require educators to be 
paid salaries comparable to those in only the Federal school 
system.
    The Department of Defense Education Activity: this 
requirement is meant to support parity and access. However, 
Federal corporations have failed to account for increases in 
competitive salaries at DODEA, and in States where BIE schools 
are located, increased investment is required to ensure access 
to high-qualified, culturally-competent educators at all 
schools. When funding is cut in other areas of the BIE budget, 
ISEP funds are often to used to make up the difference. A 
flood, broken heater, or leaky roof can force a BIE school to 
lay off a special education teacher, a student counsel, or 
school security officer halfway through the school year. 
Congress must ensure that ISEP is allocated adequate funding to 
fulfill all program needs.
    In conclusion, healthy education systems are vital to 
thriving tribal nations and communities. Though tribal leaders 
and legislators juggle several priorities, education cannot be 
forgotten. Appropriations have the potential to promote equity 
and ensure access to excellent education options which prepare 
native students to thrive in the classroom and beyond. NIEA 
urges Congress to uphold the Federal trust responsibility for 
all native students by fully funding critical programs that 
support effective and culturally-appropriate native education. 
Our students, including the students in Bureau-funded schools, 
deserve nothing less.
    [Speaking native language.] Thank you so much for your 
time.
    [The statement of Mr. Dropik follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much for your testimony.
    Next, we will hear from Mr. William Smith, the president of 
the National Indian Health Board. Thank you so much for being 
with us today.
    Mr. Smith. Good morning, Madam Chair Pingree, Ranking 
Member Joyce, and members of the subcommittee. On behalf of the 
574 federally-recognized tribal nations and member 
organizations that the NIHB serves, thank you for this 
opportunity to testify for the fiscal year 2023 funding for the 
Indian Health Service. My name is William Smith. I am the 
chairman and the Alaska area representative of the National 
Indian Health Board. As a Vietnam War veteran and a retired 
Army sergeant, I am proud to have served my country and to 
continue the public service by serving the tribal nations 
through the National Indian Health Board.
    For the fiscal year 2023 and beyond, robust investments are 
necessary to fill the Federal trust responsibilities, and 
treaty obligations, and improve the health of all Alaska 
Natives and American Indians. This funding must also empower 
tribes to prevent and prepare for public health emergencies. To 
that end, we are pleased that the President's fiscal year 2023 
budget requests mandatory funding for the IHS at $9.1 billion, 
which increases over the following 10 years. It is a bold 
vision and an end to a chronic funding inadequacy in building a 
comprehensive Indian healthcare system. We urge Congress to 
support the request and work together with administration and 
the tribes to see that it is passed into law.
    My written testimony discusses this proposal and other key 
priorities in more detail. Today, I want to focus on mental and 
behavioral health facilities and, finally, full funding.
    In his December 2021 advisory, the U.S. Surgeon General 
found that native youth were at higher risk for mental and 
behavioral health challenges during the pandemic. While the 
advisory focused on youth, these findings could also apply to 
our adults and other health challenges. Before the pandemic, 
tribal communities were at a behavioral health crisis, 
according to the National Center for Health Statistics. 
American Indians and Alaska Native women experienced a higher 
increase in suicide rate from 139 percent from 1999 to 2017. 
The men between the ages of 15 and 44 experienced the highest 
rate of suicide of all races and ethnic groups. The overall 
death of the adults from suicide is about 20 percent higher 
compared to the non-Hispanic white populations. Suicide has 
skyrocketed for native veterans from 19.1 to 47 in 100,000 
people, but most shocking, for those ages 18 to 39, it was 66 
in 100,000 persons.
    The pandemic devastated our communities. It highlighted the 
consequences of chronic underfunding. For example, according to 
the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 
13 percent of the native populations need substance abuse 
treatment, but only 3.5 percent receives any treatment. 
Congress must tackle these issues head on with aggressive 
funding for prevention and treatment measures for tribes. 
Facilities are also necessary to make an impact on these 
problems. In 2010, Congress authorized the construction of 
inpatient behavior health and other specialty care, such as 
long-term care and dialysis. While suicide and other health 
problems have accelerated, construction has yet to be funded. 
In fact, Congress has not funded or completed a series of 
healthcare facilities still on the 1993 waiting list.
    The Indian Health Service has indicated that the 
construction cost loan is now up to $22 billion, yet Congress 
funded the entire Indian Health Service system at $6.6 billion 
for fiscal year 2023. As a result, tribal leaders and health 
policy experts determined that full funding for the IHS at 
$49.8 is requested to make a difference. This figure takes into 
account mental, medical, and non-medical information, 
complications with the costly Federal mandates, and other 
emerging needs. It is also a more accurate per user benchmark 
based on the national health experience.
    Achieving full funding will be difficult given the 
restrictions spending cap in the subcommittee's allotments, but 
aggressive solutions are needed to make a difference. The 
President appears willing to move the bar. Indian Country 
challenges Congress to also make a difference and move in the 
right direction. The National Indian Health Board and the 
tribal nations stand ready to join in this fight for the 
healthcare of American Indians and Alaska Natives.
    [Speaking native language], and thank you very much for 
listening to us. And I will respond to any questions.
    [The statement of Mr. Smith follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much for being with us today.
    And our fourth witness will be Ms. Sonya Tetnowski, the 
president-elect of the National Council of Urban Indian Health. 
Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to hearing from 
you.
    Ms. Tetnowski. Good morning. My name is Sonya Tetnowski, 
Makah tribal member, and I currently serve as the president-
elect of the National Council of Urban Indian Health, which 
represents 41 urban Indian healthcare organizations across the 
Nation who provide high-quality, culturally-competent care. I 
am also the CEO of the Indian Health Center, Santa Clara 
Valley, a UIO that provides comprehensive healthcare care to 
over 22,000 patients.
    Let me start by saying thank you to Chairman Pingree, 
Ranking Member Joyce, and members of the subcommittee for the 
opportunity to testify today.
    I testify today to request the Tribal Budget Formulation 
Work Group's recommended amounts of $50 billion for IHS and 
$950 million for urban Indian health for fiscal year 2023, 
supporting the President's proposal for mandatory funding for 
IHS, as well as advanced appropriations for IHS. We also ask 
that UIOs are protected from unrelated budgetary disputes and 
have access to the available opioid funding.
    UIOs provide a range of services and are primarily funded 
by a single line item in the annual Indian health budget, which 
is only 1 percent of the annual budget for fiscal year 2022 for 
the over 70 percent of native people living in urban areas. 
Despite historically low levels of funding, UIOs have 
continuously provided services in the hardest-hit areas 
throughout this health crisis. In fact, the county where my UIO 
is located was the first in the country to initiate shelter-in-
place measures as we were considered a hotspot by the CDC. I am 
proud to say that IHCSCU has been fighting diligently from day 
one of this pandemic to do whatever it could to protect the 
community. Our UIOs have played a critical role in natives 
having some of the highest vaccination rates in the U.S.
    However, in order to match the pace of other clinics, we 
need a consistent baseline of funding, as costs for providing 
care continues to increase with a growing shortage of 
healthcare providers. As native people had some of the highest 
infection rates, increased funding is needed to address the 
long-term impacts that COVID has had on our members. I share 
these insights to highlight the need for continued increases in 
Indian health funding and stress the importance of honoring the 
trust responsibility. The Federal trust obligation to provide 
healthcare to natives is not optional and must be provided, no 
matter where they reside. Continuing to fund IHS at its current 
pace is what has led to irreparable health disparities, which 
is why we are fighting for full funding. Funding for Indian 
health must be significantly increased if the Federal 
Government is to finally and faithfully fulfill its trust 
responsibility.
    We want to thank the committee for the report language to 
allow us to finally use our 1-percent line item for facilities. 
Your report was instrumental in its final inclusion in the 
bipartisan infrastructure package. However, because UIOs do not 
receive designated facilities funding, unlike the rest of the 
IHS system, it is critical that the committee increase the 
funding for the urban Indian health line item. Additionally, 
any authorizing language that is specified for tribal 
organizations does not include urban Indian organizations, so 
we ask that the Urban Indian Organization be included in all 
future legislation so that we can work together to close the 
health equity gap that exists today.
    We urge you to please reach out to IHS and NCUIH to ensure 
funding designated to help native communities has the proper 
language to ensure we are included. Another priority is 
advanced appropriations, which, for IHS, is a long-overdue 
request from tribal and urban leaders alike. Advanced 
appropriations is imperative to provide certainty to the Indian 
healthcare delivery system until such time that all trust and 
treaty obligations to all AI/AN are accounted for and provided 
as mandatory spending. Again, the risk is too great and the 
price is too high to continue funding the way that it is now. I 
urge the subcommittee to consider these requests and prioritize 
urban Indian health, thereby enabling UIOs to continue 
providing high-quality, culturally-competent care to native 
people, regardless of where they live.
    Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I have 
provided written testimony to the committee, and I am happy to 
answer any questions.
    [The statement of Ms. Tetnowski follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you all for your presentations and your 
very thorough written testimony. We really appreciate your 
taking the time to be with us today.
    We will now begin the questions. I'll start with a couple 
of questions from myself. Let's see. So I am going to start 
with National Indian Education Association. Mr. Dropik, I want 
to talk a little bit more about the construction, and I really 
appreciate your reminding us of the importance of expanding 
those construction funds and how far behind we are. Certainly 
during the pandemic, we were reminded of how inadequate the 
facilities are everywhere.
    A few years ago, the Bureau of Indian Education developed a 
new methodology for determining school replacement and repair 
needs and priorities. While this new methodology seems 
promising, GAO and some tribal schools have questioned the 
accuracy of the data used to determine the needs and 
priorities. So has your organization engaged with BIE to ensure 
adequate funding and training to provide technical assistance 
to schools to ensure the data is input accurately and timely?
    Mr. Dropik. Thank you so much for that. That is a great 
observation. I would just make two points. One is that NIEA is 
always standing ready to help support whenever we are asked or 
called upon or invited to the table, so to speak. We would love 
that opportunity to share more. I would say that often 
sometimes those decisions seem to be made in isolation, not 
always with consultation with not only NIEA or even BIE at 
times, but also tribal communities that they serve. We really 
feel that that communication has to improve. It does not take 
place in the way that it should.
    The other just real quick point is that also, you know, 
funding in terms of structures isn't just a BIE issue. Our 
structures and functions in public schools and the gap that we 
see with over 93 percent of our native students attending 
public schools, those gaps are huge and continue to further 
separate. And so though we specifically make those asks as it 
relates to BIE funding, obviously from oversight perspectives, 
there is much that needs to be done on infrastructure and 
resources across all schools where students are. And lifting up 
those predominantly native schools lifts up all students in 
those communities, so it really should be a win for all 
communities.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah. Thank you for your answers and also for 
reminding us that all of our public schools need upgrading. 
Coming from New England where so many of our school buildings 
are old, we are acutely aware of that issue.
    Ms. Sharp, I wanted to just ask you a quick question about 
climate change. So we all know that Indian tribes are facing 
the enormous challenge of confronting the threat of climate 
change and the impacts on air, water, land, communities, human 
health, species, and habitats. So the fiscal year 2023 
President's budget includes an additional $29 million over the 
2022-enacted level for climate adaption and tribal relocation. 
Could you describe to me some of the challenges that tribes are 
experiencing and how climate resilience funds would be used to 
adapt to climate change?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes, excellent question. Thank you. I really 
appreciate that. We are on the front lines of climate change. 
We recently convened an NCAI board meeting, and we go through 
what is going on in Indian Country, and every region reported 
climate-related impacts. So all of Indian Country is directly 
impacted, and I could speak specifically to my tribe. We are 
currently under four states of emergency. We face a massive 
king tide. A landslide threatens to take out the only access 
road to our village, and so we really appreciate any funding 
and attention. And the dollars that we would use would not only 
help relocate our villages, but we are also facing the collapse 
of our fisheries in the Pacific Northwest. These are issues 
that are key and central to our identity as native people.
    The visuals from last summer when we had temperatures of 
111 degrees, there is video footage of salmon being cooked 
alive in the Columbia River, heat lesions, and clam resources 
when the tide went out or just baked them in the open sand. So 
we are on the front lines. We are threatened, and these dollars 
will be able to help fuel and fund our ability to adapt and 
mitigate these direct impacts of climate change.
    I really appreciate the question. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Yes, thank you. I think since there are $8 
million specifically for tribal relocation, and you, you know, 
graphically described how it affects your tribe, I think we 
have to, you know, dig in deeper onto that and understand the 
number of tribes that need that level of assistance, and really 
just how big the impact is going to be over the coming years.
    I have used up most of my time, but I'll get a chance again 
later to ask you more questions. So I will yield back and then 
see if Mr. Joyce has some questions he would like to ask.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, and I will continue to follow up with 
Ms. Sharp, if you don't mind. President Sharp, of all the 
proposals in the President's budget that touch on this 
subcommittee's jurisdiction, is it fair to say that mandatory 
funding for IHS is the most consequential?
    Ms. Sharp. I would say yes. Coming out of a global 
pandemic, the ``Broken Promises'' report detailed the level of 
funding. There is a data point in that report that says, per 
capita, the average investment through IHS for individual 
tribal citizens is just over $2,000. The national average is 
over $9,000. That chronic underfunding is what led to our 
vulnerability, and so coming out of the pandemic, it is 
absolutely essential that we have mandatory resources as we 
plan to not only recalibrate the mental health crisis that is 
not even known at this point, but we know it is there. It is 
absolutely essential that we can have funding that we can rely 
on, that is mandatory for planning purposes, and to redefine a 
healthcare system that is responsive to our citizens.
    Mr. Joyce. The mandatory funding proposals for the IHS, 
contract support costs and 105(l) payments for tribal leases 
technically fall under the jurisdiction of the House Energy and 
Commerce Committee and the House Natural Resources Committee 
and not the Appropriations Committee. What is the NCAI doing to 
help move these proposals through the authorizing committees?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes. We are working diligently as a congress, 
but we are also working through our regional organizations that 
you are going to hear from tomorrow. So we know that we have to 
hold the United States accountable to its trust responsibility 
and that, as I pointed out in my testimony, these are chronic, 
longstanding underfunded programs. And so we have to work at 
every level with every region and do the fact finding that we 
have been doing for nearly half a century at NCAI, and be able 
to provide that technical support to our regions, to our 
individual tribes so we can aggressively work to insist that 
these are mandatory. These should not be discretionary dollars. 
Our basic health should be a mandatory expenditure of the 
United States Government.
    Mr. Joyce. Great. Madam Chair, I know we have some other 
members on here. I'll stick around with you for round two and 
let them ask the questions that they may have.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Thank you so much. I think the next 
member up is Mr. Kilmer.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks to all of 
our witnesses for being with us. I wanted to start by directing 
a couple questions to my friend, President Sharp, who has been 
just such an extraordinary leader in our neck of the woods and 
nationally with the National Congress of American Indians.
    You know, the chairwoman in her question touched on the 
impact of climate change, the impact of rising sea levels, and 
you already spoke eloquently about what that has meant for the 
Quinault Nation. You know, if anyone goes online and Googles 
``Taholah,'' which is their lower village, and flooding, you 
can actually see a photograph of someone rowing a canoe through 
the streets of their village because we have seen storm surges 
and flooding. You know, unfortunately in the district I 
represent, we have four coastal tribes that are in the process 
of trying to move to higher ground.
    In the omnibus bill, there was some funding for the Hoh 
Tribe, and the Quileute Tribe, and the Quinault Nation to 
support some of that relocation process. We are working on some 
other stuff. The Natural Resources Committee favorably reported 
out the Tribal Coastal Resiliency Act, which they introduced to 
try to provide some dedicated resources to coastal tribes to 
support their efforts to mitigate threats caused by climate 
change.
    But I think it is worth just pointing out that these are 
significant costs. I mean, we are literally talking about 
trying to relocate, in some instances, entire communities. You 
know, if you go out and visit the Quileute Tribe, their school, 
any one of us could stand at the doorstep of their current 
school and throw a rock and land it in the Pacific Ocean right 
now. And, you know, if you think about the threat of tsunami, 
that is horrifying, and, you know, so building a school is not 
a cheap ticket, and then you multiply that by all of the 
communities that are undertaking this.
    So, President Sharp, I was hoping you could say a bit more 
about how BIA and any other funding advancing climate 
resiliency would help in these relocation efforts, and what you 
think Congress had to do on this front because my sense is that 
the need is far more significant than the funding has been.
    Ms. Sharp. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. When we did look at 
the budget that was released, the infrastructure bill, for 
example, there is $150 million for relocation for tribal 
nations. Our one project at Quinault is about $180 million. So 
the national appropriation for relocating tribal villages that 
is targeted for tribal nations, my one nation would consume 
that entire budget, so the need is tremendous. And if we 
consider the report that was released just yesterday by the 
United Nations, our reality today is only going to intensify 
the climate crisis with respect to sea level rise, mega fires.
    And so the public treasury right now, from our perspective, 
is paying for the mere symptoms of climate change. We are not 
even getting to the infrastructure to actually move these 
villages to higher ground. We are not getting to adaptation and 
mitigation strategies. So my recommendation going forward would 
be to make targeted investments to make a difference, but also 
to recognize the scale of this crisis is beyond the public 
treasury. We have to be creative in public/private partnerships 
with the private sector and also with philanthropy. There is a 
global community waiting to enlist resources and deploy those 
to tribal nations, and I think the United States could be a 
tremendous partner and ally with tribal nations.
    In other parts of the world, indigenous peoples don't have 
political structure. We do, and so I think there is an 
opportunity to meet the needs here domestically but also to be 
a leader globally on these issues with respect to indigenous 
peoples.
    Mr. Kilmer. I am going to try to squeeze in the minute I 
have, you mentioned the ``Broken Promises''' report, which 
really details, as you pointed out, chronic underfunding in 
infrastructure, in housing, in education, in healthcare, in 
economic development for tribes, and, in many cases, failing to 
fully recognize the sovereign status of tribal governments. I 
am working with Senator Warren on some legislation to address 
some of the recommendations outlined in that report. But, 
President Sharp, can you just comment on the importance of 
actually taking action in response to the ``Broken Promises''' 
report?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes, thank you, and I appreciate that question. 
I will try to answer it in 20 seconds. It is critically 
important that we consider this as a foundational document. 
There is a lot of fact finding. It determines not one Federal 
agency is living up to its trust responsibility, so we need to 
partner. To the extent Congress cannot fully fund the services, 
you need to get behind our vision in building our economy, 
including tax parity and our resources to, as Sovereign 
Nations, raise the revenue and advance profitability of our 
enterprises. [Speaking native language.] Thank you.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Very well done. Thank you. Mr. Simpson, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you all 
for being here to testify today. Obviously, Indian health and -
    [No response.]
    Ms. Pingree. We lost you for a minute. I think maybe you 
got muted.
    Mr. Simpson. Can you hear me now?
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah. Yeah.
    Mr. Simpson. Okay. We are back again, but anyway, thank you 
all for being here today. Indian issues and Indian Country has 
always been a bipartisan issue on this committee. We work 
together and try to do the best we can. I noticed almost all of 
you recommended that we do mandatory funding for Indian Health 
Services. It was also mentioned that we do advanced 
appropriations now. If you had mandatory funding, do you need 
advanced appropriations? I guess I'll ask whoever wants to 
answer that.
    Ms. Sharp. I would be happy to.
    Mr. Simpson. Okay. [Laughter.]
    Ms. Sharp. Yes, both are critically important. 
``Mandatory'' means the United States is signaling to tribal 
nations that treaty obligations and the trust responsibility is 
non-negotiable.
    Mr. Simpson. Right.
    Ms. Sharp. That is mandatory. Advanced appropriations is 
also vitally important to tribal nations so that we can plan. 
It is hard to plan for things when we don't know, and there is 
such a level of uncertainty all across Indian Country, and 
specifically to the health sector. When you look at every 
single metric of public health for tribal nations, our citizens 
are off the chart. So we need these resources, and we need them 
in advance so that we could plan effectively.
    Mr. Simpson. Well, I appreciate what you are saying, and I 
agree with you. The Indian Health Service has been underfunded 
for years, and we have tried to increase it and so forth. If it 
was mandatory, you would pretty much know what it is going to 
be the next year. So, I mean, it seems to me, and maybe I am 
wrong. I don't know. It seems to me like if it was mandatory, 
you would have had that certainty rather than through the 
advanced appropriation. But that is a discussion we can have 
later on how best to do that because I understand where you are 
coming from, and I agree with you.
    Let me ask you, if mandatory funding were in place today, 
say it had been passed a couple of years ago, would the $9.1 
billion in mandatory funding for IHS be sufficient to cover 
those costs today, or would that level be higher today?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes, it would be sufficient. As I pointed out in 
one of the previous questions, the disparity is so wide, the 
gap is so significant, it is going to take us years just to get 
to a basic level of healthcare. And when you look at our 
healthcare delivery systems in IHS, we have the resources to 
fund doctors, pharmacists, but do we have a comprehensive 
healthcare system that includes oversight, that includes 
quality of care, that includes access to care? A lot of these 
basic features of a comprehensive public healthcare system does 
not exist in Indian Country. So for us to achieve a basic level 
of parity with citizens in the United States, we need far more 
than what is currently appropriated.
    Mr. Simpson. I understand what you are saying. Believe me, 
Representative Cole has made me aware of this over the years 
and the need to increase funding for Indian Health Services. It 
seems like if the authorizing committee passed mandatory 
funding, that the idea behind that is that brings that level up 
to where it ought to be because it is mandatory, and it does it 
right away. From what I understand in this proposal, it is $9.1 
billion in mandatory funding that will increase based on 
healthcare costs and population growth to $36.7 billion by 
2032. I am trying to figure out mandatory at what level, and 
how do we anticipate those costs.
    And the reason I ask this question is, as you know, a 
little over 70 percent of the Federal budget is mandatory 
funding. Every agency in the world would love to have mandatory 
funding and not have to deal with the Appropriations Committee. 
Believe me, I fully understand that, and it might be the only 
way we can get Indian health up to where it ought to be and the 
funding for where it ought to be. And I don't have a problem 
with that if that is what is necessary in order to get it to 
get it to that level. And I guess I have been trying to figure 
out at what level would it jump right away and how soon would 
we be at full funding under mandatory funding.
    Ms. Sharp. Yes, I really appreciate where you are going 
with that question, Congressman. I really appreciate thinking 
about not only meeting the immediate need but the long term, 
and how do we get to a level of parity, and I would welcome, as 
I am sure all of our partners and colleagues who do some 
significant fact finding. We are coming up to an era of 
understanding the boarding school deaths within our community 
and the murder of our children. There are significant mental 
health crises facing Indian Country. At this point, we don't 
even have the resources to fully understand the scale of the 
healthcare crises facing Indian Country.
    And to answer your question, we should spend the time, in 
partnership with Congress, to really delve in to understand the 
significant right-now health impacts to Indian Country, and 
then, from there, build out. So I really appreciate the 
question. Thank you.
    Mr. Simpson. Yeah, I appreciate your answer, and I am more 
than willing, and I know members of this committee are also, to 
figure out how we get to the level that we ought to be at so 
that there is not disparity between Indian Health Services and 
other health services delivered by the Federal Government 
stuff. And as you said, we have a treaty responsibility with 
these tribes, one that I am painfully aware of, that is 
necessary that we try and meet.
    One other question. I can't see a clock, Chairwoman, so 
this is a briefer question.
    Ms. Pingree. Go ahead. Sure.
    Mr. Simpson. When it comes to Indian education, and it is 
broader than just that, one of the problems that as I talk to 
like the Shoshone Tribe in Idaho, they have some difficulties 
hiring teachers. And it is not just teachers, but it is also 
law enforcement officers. We just had an earmark for a $7 
million fire station in Fort Hall because they needed a fire 
station. The one thing they told me is they have a hard time 
keeping the firemen on the job. They got like 20 or 30 firemen, 
but they are the training ground for the communities around 
that can pay these people much more. So in Indian education, 
law enforcement, other first responders, they do all the 
education. As soon as they get educated, a lot of them will 
move to other communities.
    How do we create a situation where they can pay these 
people to stay on the jobs that they have been trained for on 
the reservation?
    Mr. Dropik. You can go ahead, President Sharp, if you would 
like. Otherwise, I can. Either way.
    Ms. Sharp. Yes, I can address at law enforcement if you 
want to address education. With respect to law enforcement, you 
see that all across Indian Country. The one suggestion I would 
make as we try to achieve parity with State and local 
government, we need parity not only in the number of officers 
but in pay scales. And I have often thought wouldn't it be nice 
to take the Federal pay scale and include those in our self-
governance compacts. We have in our fish hatchery somebody who 
has been there for 30 years, and they are still not at a level 
that is even at the lower end of the Federal scale. When 
someone from college comes right out to our Federal hatchery, 
they are making about $30,000 more. And you are right, you 
could go to every sector. And so if we could achieve parity, 
take Federal pay scales, plug those in, we would be able to see 
a sustained effort to be able to deliver public health safety, 
education, welfare for all of our workforce. It is so 
important.
    Mr. Dropik. And just following up on education, you are 
absolutely right. And education and having teachers in the 
classroom isn't going to be an issue that is solely in native 
communities, but it definitely is going to be, once again, a 
huge spotlight and exacerbated by when you have poor 
conditions, you have people wearing multiple hats because of 
funding deficits, that creates the need for people to serve in 
many different roles as opposed to their other community peers 
where they don't have to serve in three to four different roles 
in their communities. You know, those are some of the 
challenges that come in.
    So, you know, there are many different ways that you can 
help to support that through funding, obviously, those core 
structures which helps to create opportunities, and for 
personnel where there are huge gaps that we talked about in our 
testimony that exist between personnel deficits. But then also, 
we can get creative. There is programming, and it might not be 
specific from appropriations, but really being able to pass 
some meaningful ways in which tribal members can be able to get 
their degrees without a huge burden of debt over their head as 
they go into their communities and they work and to pay it 
back.
    I graduated from a Federal program that created Urban 
American Indian Teachers, and I was able to get part of my 
schooling paid for to serve in urban American Indian settings. 
And those programs are so few and far between and poorly funded 
that they just definitely would help provide some impact into 
our tribal communities. But it is structural. It is personnel. 
It is creating those, and it does start with funding as well as 
creating those conditions for people to stay.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you for that, and let's work on that. I 
am more than willing to work with you. Thank you, Chairwoman 
Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Simpson. I let you 
go a little bit over, but you got the rest of Mr. Joyce's time. 
[Laughter.]
    Ms. Pingree. So we will make it up to everybody else. 
Representative Lee, you are next.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you, Chair Pingree, and Ranking Member 
Joyce, and all the panelists for being here today. I represent 
Nevada, and over 80 percent of our land is federally 
controlled, which means that tribal collaboration and 
participation in Federal lands management is such an important 
issue in my State. I personally have been pleased to see the 
Biden administration's commitments on this front with the 
Tribal Homelands Initiative and Secretary Haaland's new Tribal 
Advisory Committee. Those are all a great start, but as we 
heard from testimony today, much more work remains.
    I have a pair of questions for Ms. Sharp on this front. 
President Sharp, my district is home to Avi Kwa Ame, which is 
the Mojave name for Spirit Mountain, the center of creation for 
10 human-speaking tribes. Right now, a coalition of tribes, the 
local communities, the Nevada legislature, conservation groups, 
recreation interests, and others are working to establish 
Spirit Mountain and the area that surrounds it as a national 
monument, and earlier this year, I sent the Secretary a letter 
supporting such a move.
    You spoke in your testimony about creative management 
solutions to the tribal Federal partnerships when it comes to 
Federal land management. We already know that there are four 
sites in the National Park Service as well as 80 additional 
formalized relationships. From your perspective, are there 
successful models of formal Federal and tribal cooperation that 
could be or should be considered when creating new monuments 
such as the Avi Kwa Ame?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes, absolutely, and before I answer that 
specific question, I think it is important just to point out 
that while tribal nations ceded millions of Acres of lands 
across this country through treaty, we have never relinquished 
our spiritual connection to this landscape, and that is what we 
bring to the table. When we bring our co-management, we bring 
our perspective. We bring our teachings. We bring our songs and 
ceremonies that remain, that have been there since time 
immemorial. So, yes, there are examples all across Indian 
Country where we are able to not only be at the table but to 
bring that wealth, that brain trust, and that heart and that 
spiritual connection to the landscape.
    And you'll find in those instances, the management, it is 
just better. It is an added layer that connects present-day 
management to the beginning of time and our vision to the end 
of time, because we do manage for seven generations, so we 
bring that very broad perspective. I really appreciate that 
question. Thank you.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you. Are there any specific characteristics 
that you believe would be essential to ensuring a productive 
co-stewardship of tribal lands?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes. One of the key features I would strongly 
advance is the ability in co-management, for tribal nations 
that have a decisive say over our land, territories, resources, 
and people, to have what is known as a universal international 
standard of free, prior, and informed consent. When we have the 
ability to have a decisive say over our lands, territories, and 
resources without another sovereign taking unilateral action, 
that is when you are going to find that the relationship 
between tribal nations and the United States is not only 
respected, but advanced in a way that is honorable and that is 
worthy of things that are in the future that we can achieve 
together in a good, positive way.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you. You know, I did want to comment about 
your previous answer. I had the pleasure of touring Spirit 
Mountain with the local Fort Mojave Tribe and witnessing their 
dance and their ceremony, and it was really quite moving.
    So, you know, the Biden administration has the Tribal 
Homelands Initiative, and this is a historic commitment to 
upholding and enhancing the Federal Government's partnership 
and nation-to-Nation relationships. As this effort continues to 
get under-way, what elements should Congress prioritize in the 
near term that will best position this initiative for success 
in the long term?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes. I think a lot of the issues that we have 
touched on have been related to funding, to co-management, to 
having a decisive say. I think it is important to spend time to 
really understand the tribal nations' perspective. I think 
oftentimes when there are new initiatives and innovative ideas, 
a lot of people think they have an idea of what would work for 
us or what is best for us, and that has been the long story of 
Federal-tribal relations. But to the extent there is some early 
engagement to really understand issues from our perspective 
that little investment of time is going to be proved to be 
valuable for years to come.
    Mrs. Lee. Great. Thank you, Ms. Sharp, for that insight, 
and with that, I yield.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much. Mr. Amodei, are you 
interested in asking questions? I am not sure if I see you on 
there.
    [No response.]
    Ms. Pingree. Okay. I hear back from Mr. Amodei. If he wants 
to ask questions later, we will put him back in the line. So 
we'll go to Mr. Cartwright.
    Mr. Cartwright. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for 
our distinguished panel for testifying today.
    I want to talk about broadband internet. We are all talking 
a lot about that, but we have to talk about it in context with 
this hearing. Ms. Sharpe, I want to start with you. In January, 
one of your NCAI colleagues, Mr. Rantaren told the Senate 
Committee on Indian Affairs that half of the tribes did not 
apply for broadband funding, in part because they were unaware 
of the funding opportunity due to the lack of connectivity. In 
other words, they weren't online so they didn't get the notice. 
Well, as we begin to build up better broadband access with the 
IIJA funds, how do we ensure that these tribes and communities, 
who clearly need the funding, are aware of the opportunities 
available to them?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes, thank you, and I am just looking at my 
screen here. I don't know if my face is coming up as red as it 
looks on my screen or if my blood is literally boiling. I am 
not sure. But to answer your question, the one thing that I 
would recommend, for us to really put our broadband programs 
together, we have to go to multiple sources. If we could create 
a one-stop place so that we aren't band-aiding the approach to 
establish broadband, and then also deploy resources to help 
build capacity. Another reason so many tribes didn't apply, we 
don't even have the capacity to be able to begin the planning 
process. And so early dollars for planning one-stop-shopping to 
be able to combine all of the Federal deployment of resources 
targeted to Indian Country in a convenient place, I think that 
would go a long way.
    Mr. Cartwright. Well, thank you, and I want to include Mr. 
Dropik in this discussion. Mr. Dropik, as you noted in your 
testimony, native students often face significant hurdles, 
educational disparities. Can you describe the impact that 
limited broadband access has had on exacerbating these 
disparities, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic, and how, 
if allocated appropriately, the broadband funding in the 
bipartisan infrastructure bill--the IIJA--can help reduce these 
disparities?
    Mr. Dropik. [Speaking native language.] Thank you for that 
opportunity, and you are absolutely correct. So with about 68 
percent of our tribal communities being in rural settings, I 
can speak firsthand. When we had to pivot to remote learning 
within our own school, we had students who had to move back to 
their tribal communities because that is where they had 
families that could take care of them, so they were out of 
their city centers with their parents or went with an aunt or 
an uncle or a grandparent. And there was zero cellphone signal 
let alone broadband access, so we couldn't even give them a 
hotspot that they could use.
    And so infrastructure, parts of it in terms of increasing 
access in rural communities, and we know that in the Southwest, 
the distance and the geographical challenges that exist there 
for making sure that people have adequate access. What that 
does is just there was already a gap. We have seen gaps in 
communities where that isn't an issue, where they are able to 
access online, whether it is our suburban community or urban 
centers. And then also what we did, though, seeing our tribal 
communities, so that gap further spread as students that didn't 
have those same issues were able to engage in some connections 
with other people with meaningful learning experiences that 
were met.
    So it is that communication. We got to let them know, but 
even if they knew, some of our families wouldn't have been able 
to access that because there is just zero capability in their 
community, and it is because there have been no investment 
dollars. If I need a classroom or if I have an opportunity to 
get some high-speed internet, I need a classroom renovation so 
I don't have a ceiling tile falling on my head. And so those 
are our priorities.
    You know, when we make those priorities and we cut funds, 
and infrastructure, and the resources, it takes away from other 
opportunities to grow and to create that access. So I think, to 
President Sharp's point, that collaboration about really 
researching where do we need to have those priorities made so 
that we can make sure that they have access, then we can start 
getting the tools in people's hands, and the communication can 
go out. So that infrastructure part, getting to rural 
communities is huge, our tribal communities, which is where 
many of the lands are, is something that has to be addressed as 
well.
    Mr. Cartwright. Well, that is well said, and thank you both 
for your testimony. And, Chair Pingree, I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much. I think we might have a 
couple of members who want a second question. So I'll try one 
more time. If Mr. Amodei wants to ask a question, just let me 
know. Otherwise, I will go back and we'll go with a couple more 
questions, and I'll start with myself.
    I wanted to ask Ms. Tetnowski, in your testimony, I thought 
it was interesting that there are only two urban Indian health 
facilities for the entire East Coast. Is that because of lack 
of funding, or are there other urban facilities provided or 
interested in providing health services but that are not able 
to do so because of the funding, and what would be the process 
or what is needed to expand Indian healthcare on the East 
Coast?
    Ms. Tetnowski. Thank you so much for that question. Yes, it 
does have to do with our ability to get additional funding to 
increase our service areas. Many of our existing programs were 
created many years ago, most of which are 40-plus years old as 
far as organization goes. And so with a 1-percent line item out 
of the entire IHS budget, the ability for us to expand into new 
areas or to create new facilities in new locations is just not 
possible. We just don't have the bandwidth or the resources to 
be able to sustain them.
    One thing I wanted to follow up on what Representative 
Simpson said about the ability to have advanced appropriations 
versus mandatory funding, advanced appropriation would ensure 
that we weren't shut down during any type of government 
closure. IHS is currently the only healthcare organization in 
the Federal Government that does not have advanced 
appropriations at this time, again, leading to our inability to 
expand programs and plan. Like President Sharp shared earlier, 
planning is critical for those services to expand.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah, thank you for that answer and for your 
thoughts on the mandatory and advanced funding. Mr. Smith, I 
want to ask a question of you. In the fiscal year 2022 budget, 
the Indian Health Service for the first time identified over 
$50 million the Service pays to the Department of Health and 
Human Services for assessments. The subcommittee urged IHS to 
fund these costs from the direct operations line rather than 
hospitals and healthcare care, which is used to provide actual 
service. Has the Service consulted with the tribes about moving 
these costs, and does NIHB have a position on where these costs 
should be funded?
    Mr. Smith. Thank you for that question. As it is going, I 
would have to refer back to my technical support to get you the 
proper answer for what you need. But on another note, when we 
are talking about advanced appropriations, mandatory advanced 
appropriations would give us the stopgap until we can decide, 
and talk together, and work together on the mandatory 
appropriations so we would know the full cost of everything it 
is doing. So like I stated before, we already suffered during 
the government shutdown. Then when you talk about people 
leaving the jobs, we had health persons leaving our Indian 
Health Services jobs because they weren't getting paid and 
going over to the paid section, and we are trying now to get 
qualified healthcare workers back into our system.
    So advanced appropriations would be the solution to 
figuring out what mandatory would be because when you are 
saying ``mandatory appropriations,'' we don't know what that 
would be. But if we had that, just like the VA, it kept going 
during the shutdown, but the Indian Health Service, we suffered 
dearly. So I'll get back to you with your first question----
    Ms. Pingree. Great. That is fine. You can let us know, and 
thank you for that.
    Ms. Pingree. I know those of us in government like to think 
we are never going to shut down again, but it does seem to 
happen, so I understand your concerns.
    One last question, Ms. Sharp. In your written testimony, 
you proposed investments in an economic development pilot 
program. Could you give me some more details on how the program 
would work and how it would differ from BIA's existing economic 
development programs?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes. One of the central points of distinction, 
we know and recognize that healthy tribal economic systems and 
economy is so much more than tribally-owned business. It is 
attracting companies that locate within Indian Country. It is 
also supporting a private sector economy, our individual tribal 
citizens. So what we are after is a comprehensive economic 
development strategy for Indian Country that not only assists 
us in increasing profits, not necessarily governmental 
revenues. That is a system of taxation, and that is a whole 
nother area where Congress needs to support our ability to 
raise revenues. But in the profit sector, tribal nations can 
compete. We can support intertribal trade. We can gain access 
to international commerce and trade. We can also build a 
private sector economy.
    And so we have to look at economic development within 
Indian Country through that comprehensive lens to know and 
understand we are a sovereign tribal nation. We could attract 
companies. We could tax them. We could raise revenues, and we 
can also create strategies to increase our profitability 
through commercial ventures and enterprises. That is what we 
are after.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Thank you. That is a really helpful 
explanation. Mr. Joyce, would you like to ask some further 
questions?
    Mr. Joyce. No, my questions were addressed by the relevant 
questions asked by other members. I certainly appreciate you 
thinking of me.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Well, our colleagues have asked some 
good questions. How about you, Mr. Simpson? Any more questions 
from you?
    Mr. Simpson. Yeah, Chairwoman. I appreciate it. It is not 
really a question, and I am certain that when this is all over, 
I am going to have some staff member--Darren, I am talking to 
you--come over to my office and explain to me where I am wrong 
or whatever on this. But the question of advanced and 
mandatory, I still find that fascinating because you know that 
most mandatory spending, it is completely out of our hands, 
just like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. We don't 
appropriate money for any of those things. Once it goes to 
mandatory, it is mandatory, and that means that, as an example, 
with Social Security, if you get a Social Security check, you 
will get that check regardless of whether the Federal 
Government has any money or not. If we have to borrow the 
money, you qualify for that as long as you qualified for that. 
That is what ``mandatory spending'' means.
    And when and when you say, ``advanced appropriation,'' I am 
sitting here going advanced appropriation of what? If it is out 
of our hands, what are we advancing the appropriation for if it 
is mandatory spending? So we need to work this out so that we 
are all on the same page because I am on your side on what you 
are trying to do here. We certainly need to get the Indian 
Health Services where Indians are receiving the same type of 
medical care that other Americans are. And I think that is 
something that this committee has been working on, but it is a 
huge task, as you know. So let's work together and see if we 
can solve this.
    And also, I am very interested, having come from a city 
council of a town of 10,000 where we had 25 miles away on each 
side, a city of 50,000. We trained all the police officers for 
those communities, and now we are seeing the same type of thing 
happening with tribes where they are training the educators and 
everything else, and then they are going to where they can get 
better pay, and we need to solve that problem, frankly. So I 
appreciate all the work that you all do and for being here to 
testify before this committee today. We want to work with you 
to make sure we get to a good place where we ought to be.
    Thank you, Chairwoman. I appreciate it.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Simpson. I really 
appreciate your points, and I think we have got some sorting 
out to do on those questions and appreciate your insights. And 
to all of our witnesses today, thank you so much. You have been 
really helpful to the committee in thinking about what we need 
to be doing in fiscal year 2023, and we will look forward to 
staying in touch as we work through this process. And, again, 
thank you for your work for your organizations and for 
providing your insights to us.
    So with that, I will call this committee adjourned.
                              
       
  
                                          Wednesday, April 6, 2022.

            REGIONAL TRIBAL ORGANIZATIONS PUBLIC WITNESS DAY

                               WITNESSES

KIRK FRANCIS, PRESIDENT, UNITED SOUTH AND EASTERN TRIBES
JULIE KITKA, PRESIDENT, ALASKA FEDERATION OF NATIVES
SERRELL SMOKEY, PRESIDENT, INTER-TRIBAL COUNCIL OF NEVADA, INC.
HAROLD FRAZIER, CHAIRMAN, GREAT PLAINS TRIBAL CHAIRMEN'S ASSOCIATION
MELVIN SHELDON, JR., FIRST VICE PRESIDENT, AFFILIATED TRIBES OF 
    NORTHWEST INDIANS
    Ms. Pingree. So good morning, everyone, and welcome to the 
second public witness hearing on tribal programs under the 
jurisdiction of the Interior and Environment Appropriations 
Subcommittee.
    Due to the ongoing pandemic, we are still not back to 
normal for public witness hearings. However, this year, we are 
having two hearings. Yesterday, we heard about national Indian 
Country priorities to inform the fiscal year 2023 annual 
appropriation. Today, we will focus on regional Indian Country 
priorities. As in 2022, we have also solicited testimony from 
individual tribes to focus on specific tribal priorities. That 
testimony was received last month.
    A lot has happened since we last met. Indian Country is 
struggling with the effects of a pandemic that has resulted in 
loss of lives, including many tribal elders and fluent native-
language speakers, shut down tribal governments, and shuttered 
schools. The pandemic's mental health impacts on Native 
Americans are devastating and will need long-term assistance to 
address. I am very grateful that President Biden is honoring 
the Nation's treaty and trust responsibility to address these 
issues. I also look forward to his focus on the climate crisis 
and the need to transition to clean energy that is impacting 
not only the Nation but the world. Like the pandemic, Native 
America is on the front lines of the climate change crisis and 
has an important role to play in leading the way to a cleaner, 
healthier future.
    For fiscal year 2023, President Biden proposes $2.8 billion 
for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, $583 million above the fiscal 
year 2022-enacted level. This includes much-needed increases of 
an additional $38 million for public safety and justice 
programs and construction projects, plus an additional $104 
million for natural resources management to continue 
investments to address climate change and pivot to cleaner 
energy. Further, the budget proposes to reclassify contract 
support costs and payment for tribal leases as mandatory.
    For the Bureau of Indian Education, the President requests 
$4.5 billion, which is $294 million above the fiscal year 2022-
enacted level. The President proposes to make a substantial 
investment in education construction with a requested increase 
of $156 million. I recently met with leaders from the National 
Indian Education Association where we discussed the need for 
additional infrastructure investment. This requested increase 
is much needed.
    For the Indian Health Service, the President proposes to 
reclassify the entire budget as mandatory. The proposal is not 
within the subcommittee's jurisdiction. Since no discretionary 
funds were requested, I look forward to today's testimony on 
priority areas in the event Congress has not reclassified the 
service accounts before we pass the annual discretionary 
appropriation bill.
    I am pleased to welcome tribal organization to discuss 
regional needs and challenges facing Indian Country. I am eager 
to learn more about your issues and priorities, and I look 
forward to our discussions on these issues because I believe it 
will help to inform us as we begin to develop the 2023 
appropriations bill. Each witness' full written statement will 
be introduced into the record, so please do not feel pressured 
to cover everything orally. After we hear the testimony of each 
witness on the panel, members will have the opportunity to ask 
questions.
    And with that, I am happy to yield to my friend, Mr. Joyce, 
for his remarks.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for 
continuing these important hearings to get input from tribal 
leaders on a wide array of programs under this subcommittee's 
jurisdiction. I would like to extend a warm welcome to the 
distinguished tribal leaders testifying today. This is day two 
of the subcommittee's traditional 2-day annual listening 
sessions with tribal leaders. I know we all look forward to the 
day when we can return to full-day sessions and visit with 
tribal leaders from around our Nation.
    Our witnesses today have the difficult job of representing 
a diverse array of interests from hundreds of sovereign nations 
across the country. I represent the Northeast corner of Ohio, 
which was once the land of the Miami, Seneca and others. I am 
humbled to be joining you today in my capacity as ranking 
member on the Interior, Environment, and Related Agencies 
Subcommittee, perhaps now more than ever. As I said yesterday, 
Indian Country recently lost a true leader on Capitol Hill with 
the passing of my fellow Native American Caucus vice chair and 
Alaska's sole voice in the House for nearly 5 decades, 
Congressman Don Young. Though not an official member of this 
subcommittee, he always looked forward to these annual tribal 
meetings.
    Like Don Young and many others in Congress, I recognize 
that upholding the tribal trust obligation is a responsibility 
shared by all members of Congress regardless of the 
congressional district. I also realize the Federal Government 
still has a long way to go before fully meeting its trust and 
treaty obligations. I suspect we will hear about the important 
work that remains to be done from our distinguished witnesses 
this afternoon.
    That is why my position on the Appropriations Committee is 
a great honor, but it is also a heavy responsibility. 
Fortunately, I have a friend and partner in Chairwoman Pingree. 
And it is my sincere hope that together we can continue the 
hard work of our predecessors for more than a decade to 
increase the Federal commitment to meeting those trust and 
treaty obligations. So, I look forward to listening and 
learning from the testimony today and working with my chair and 
the rest of my colleagues in the days and weeks ahead to help 
you in this next fiscal year.
    I yield back, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much, Mr. Joyce, and thank you 
for your kind words. I look forward to working on this with 
you, and I am also pleased you mentioned our departed 
colleague, Don Young. We are all going to miss him very much 
and his important commitment to Indian Country.
    Do any other members wish to make an opening statement?
    [No response.]
    Ms. Pingree. Okay. Seeing none, we will begin to hear the 
testimony from our witnesses, and thank you all so much for 
taking your time to be with us today. We are really looking 
forward to having a conversation with you.
    I will begin by recognize Mr. Kirk Francis, the president 
of the United South and Eastern Tribes, and I feel very 
fortunate to have Chief Francis as a chief of an important 
Penobscot Tribe in our State. So it is a pleasure to have you 
with us today, and it is always good to hear your voice. So 
thank you so much for joining us, and please go ahead with your 
remarks.
    Mr. Francis. Thank you, Congresswoman, and it is great to 
see you as well. And so, Congresswoman Pingree, Ranking Member 
Joyce, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to allow me to provide testimony. My name is Kirk 
Francis. I serve as president of the United South and Eastern 
Tribes Sovereignty Protection Fund. I am also proudly serving 
as chief of the Penobscot Indian Nation in the Great State of 
Maine.
    We are here today to both celebrate historic proposals in 
the President's budget request and to also once again remind 
you all that the Federal Government continues to fail to 
deliver upon its obligations to tribal nations and native 
people. This failure has persisted regardless of changes in 
administration or Congress. Despite reports, investigations, 
recommendations, and consistent advocacy from Indian Country, 
it has been evident in the 2003 ``Quiet Crisis'' report, the 
2018 ``Broken Promises'' report, and the way the COVID-19 has 
ravaged our Nation's people and communities.
    Deep and chronic failures require bold, systematic changes.
    I am sorry, Congresswoman. Am I not on camera?
    Ms. Pingree. No, you are not. It is a tribal symbol, not 
you.
    Mr. Francis. I just got a notice from your staff. Is that 
better?
    Ms. Pingree. It is. Technology is jinxed today, so we are 
just going to expect this to happen.
    Mr. Francis. Deep and chronic failures require bold, 
systematic changes, some of which now have been proposed by the 
President. This is not a question about addressing poverty and 
needs across Indian Country. Our relationship with the United 
States is ultimately about honor, fulfilling commitments and 
promises. The solutions that we offer involve a fundamental 
shift in Federal Indian policy and funding. They will allow 
Indian Country to realize its great potential and create 
lasting, positive change for tribal nations and our people.
    It is critical that the administration propose and Congress 
demand budgets that contain full funding for all Federal Indian 
agencies and programs. Given our history and unique 
relationship, this funding can no longer be subject to the 
instability of discretionary spending. We must achieve full and 
mandatory funding for all Federal Indian agencies and programs, 
and the President's unprecedented request for IHS, though not 
entirely reflective of the tribal estimate for full funding, is 
an excellent start.
    The process under which OMB develops budgets and policy 
that impact us require reform also. We believe a strong tribal 
affairs office should be created at OMB. In concert with the 
office, OMB must be required to produce full, detailed 
accountings of the Federal funding distributed to Indian 
Country, including only what tribal nations access, not funds 
which we are technically eligible for. While we are 
appreciative of the inclusion of funding for tribal nations in 
the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, this level of 
funding is insufficient to address centuries of unmet 
infrastructure obligations. A much greater Federal investment 
is necessary to rebuild tribal nation infrastructure and 
economies. Similar to the U.S. investment in the rebuilding of 
post-World War II Europe via Marshall Plan, the legislative and 
executive branches should commit to the same investment to 
rebuild tribal nations.
    As we await further details on the President's request for 
fiscal year 2023, we celebrate the historic nature of the 
administration's proposal to move IHS and other funding to the 
mandatory side of the budget as well as a plan to begin to 
close gaps in IHS funding. We are pleased to see the proposed 
$1.1 billion increase to programs within DOI Indian Affairs. 
However, we also note the historic and continued unmet funding 
obligation with regards to BIA's diverse line items. The recent 
DOI report cites the full funding obligation of just public 
safety and justice lines at $3 billion.
    While we firmly believe all Indian Country funding should 
be fully funded today, including the IHS, we recognize that the 
Biden administration has taken a positive step forward in its 
proposal to move us closer to that reality. We now call upon 
Congress, and this subcommittee in particular, to work with 
tribal nations and the administration to fulfill the 
government's responsibilities and to ensure that these 
proposals are enacted. While each member of Congress shares 
equally in trust and treaty obligations, you have a unique 
understanding of these obligations, including unmet funding 
obligations, and, more importantly, an opportunity to drive 
historic change.
    You know how the chronic underfunding of IHS has 
contributed to the lack of access to care, health disparities, 
and preventable death in Indian Country, especially during the 
COVID crisis. We ask that you join us in supporting the 
administration's proposal for IHS as well as CSC and 105(l), 
and use this knowledge in conversations with colleagues. We 
know that it will take tribal leaders an advocates, the 
administration, and congressional appropriators working 
together to enact these.
    In closing, we implore you to lead the change within 
Congress that is necessary to improve how the United States 
views, honors, and fulfills its promises to Indian Country. The 
Federal budget is a reflection of this commitment. We recognize 
that there are many issues that this body considers. However, 
we ask that you always remember this Nation's first promise to 
its first people, the promise that resulted in an exchange 
responsible for the vast wealth, power, and influence of this 
great country.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I am happy to 
answer any questions.
    [The statement of Mr. Francis follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Chief Francis.
    Next, we will hear from Ms. Julie Kitka, the president of 
the Alaska Federation of Natives.
    Ms. Kitka. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and Ranking Member, 
and members of the committee. It is my honor to testify today. 
I serve as the president of the Alaska Federation of Natives, 
the long-term president.
    I want to first thank you for recognizing our long-term 
congressman who passed away on March 18. He was in his 25th 
term, 49 years in that distinguished body. I don't think that 
we have ever really remembered anybody else serving in that 
position on that, and so I want to thank you for allowing him 
to lie in the Statutory Hall with the respect that was given. 
And we are working with our governor on some possible naming 
opportunities to be appropriately respectful of his 
contributions to rebuilding our State on that, but thank you 
for all the courtesies. And he was a character. We know that 
there were many things that people liked and a little 
controversies, but he had a kind heart, and he really, truly, 
deeply loved the native people of Alaska and across the country 
and did his best.
    I also want to thank you for the Congress' support in the 
CARES funding, and the American Rescue, and the Infrastructure 
on that. These are historic levels of funding and effort 
directed in our communities on that, and they really are making 
a difference. When we first were assessing models on the COVID, 
the medical models of how that would impact our population, we 
were scared to death. The worst-case model had projections of 
deaths of 14,000 of our people just in Anchorage and Mat-Su 
within 3 months. Fortunately, through the interventions of the 
health system and everybody's effort, and just the trajectory 
of the virus itself, we didn't have that level of death. I 
believe we have had about 250,000 cases in our State, and the 
death rate has been hovering, I believe, about a little under 
2,000 on that.
    But, again, we threw everything into supporting our tribal 
health system. Everybody threw everything into working 
cooperatively with the State. For the first time ever, we had 
our governor request a unified command from the Secretary of 
Defense, and so we had a very streamlined response working with 
the Federal, and State, and FEMA, and everybody. And I really, 
truly believe it was everybody working together with a good 
deal of luck that we survived what we did. But we are putting 
those resources to good use. We are repairing and replenishing 
our health system and building back up our capabilities.
    For the record, I would like my written comments to be 
considered on some of the regional priorities up here. I 
reiterate the need for further funding for public safety, and 
bring to your attention we have over 60 of our remote rural 
communities that have no on-the-ground public safety presence 
at all. And in this security climate that we are dealing with 
just across our border, a very aggressive Russia, and seeing 
what is happening in Ukraine, and the additional national 
security challenges up here, it is totally unacceptable not 
have public safety and domain awareness all around our vast 
land. So I really want to urge you to support increasing the 
public safety and making sure it gets to where it is needed, 
but also communications, supporting and expanding 
communications.
    Historic levels of funding have been put out into expansion 
of broadband, and we just need to see that is deployed wisely. 
One need that we see on that is the need for coordinating 
mechanisms between tribal funding and funding that goes to the 
State on that. There are also historical levels going into 
State governments. We want to make sure there are no gaps, and 
so a focus on setting up coordinating mechanisms of Federal, 
State, tribal is really, really much needed both on broadband 
as well as infrastructure spending on that. Again, we know 
these are historic levels, and we don't want to waste a dollar. 
We want to stretch them as far as we can, but unless we are 
coordinating all together on that, the risk of things falling 
through the cracks are high.
    Again, in prioritizing resiliency, climate change is 
hitting our communities. We see high levels of erosion. We have 
multiple forums that we have had on the damages to erosion both 
to our airports, and to our hospitals, and our clinics, and our 
military's erosion concerns, housing, community buildings, the 
erosion, the melting of the permafrost, the release of methane 
gas, lots of challenges and the climate change that need to be 
addressed. And, again, the resiliency and adaptation to change 
is going to be critical.
    Another one I want to bring to your attention is the need 
on food security. We recently had 15 of our hunters that were 
stranded as they didn't get the fish in their communities and 
went further afield to hunt for beluga whales and seals and got 
stranded because of the freeze on the rivers on that, and they 
were needing to fill their home freezers and food sources for 
their community. So the climate change also impacts greatly 
food security and the ability for people to continue their way 
of life, so I want to bring that to your attention. I also want 
to encourage you to support public/private partnerships. That 
is the way that we are going to make our leap forward on 
economic development and economic recovery. We can't do it all 
on government funding. We need to be able to reach out and 
build these partnerships, both tribal partnerships with 
government, but also bringing in other private sectors in that.
    So with that, I want to leave you with one thought. One of 
the most effective Federal models for moving Federal resources 
to our communities is the compacting model. I want to urge you 
to expand the legal ability for compacting to occur in other 
departments, such as Department of Justice, dealing with public 
safety, but also Department of Education. We have asked for a 
solicitor's opinion on using the Department of Interior's 
compacting authority to flow other resources into compacting 
from other departments and are awaiting that. We are in the 
process----
    Ms. Pingree. Can I get you to wrap up? I am sorry to 
interrupt.
    Ms. Kitka. My final comment is urge you to support Federal-
State tribal compacting. We have just gotten an education 
compacting demonstration model out of our State Senate on that, 
and it will be among the first Federal-State tribal compacts. 
And we really do think that there is some coordination and some 
innovation that can occur in that.
    So with that, thank you very much for the opportunity to 
speak with you this morning.
    [The statement of Ms. Kitka follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Pingree. Sure. Thank you so much for your time.
    Next, we have Mr. Serrell Smokey, the president of Inter-
Tribal Council of Nevada. Please go ahead with your remarks. 
Thank you.
    Mr. Smokey. [Speaking native language.] My name is Serrell 
Smokey. I am the chairman of the Washoe Tribe of Nevada in 
California, also the president of the Inter-Tribal Council of 
Nevada. Today, I am speaking on behalf of the 27 tribes in the 
State of Nevada, and thank you for your time. I am going to 
start off with environmental issues, funding for environmental.
    Nevada is a huge mining State. Along with mining comes a 
lot of environmental issues, air and water quality standards. 
Our Superfund sites have been set back by decades from the 
previous administration removing EPA and putting in a public 
relations specialist. So now we are trying to reestablish all 
work that was previously done and get back to a solid base so 
we can move forward. General assistance programs, State and 
tribal assistance grants funding has remained stagnant for 
decades, close to 20 years now, without giving anything more 
back to the tribes. They give us the bare minimum to even 
maintain operations with environmental areas within our tribe.
    Living in the desert, water is a rare commodity. It always 
has been. Nevada has a lot of desert. With that, I am going to 
bring up climate change. Whether you believe in climate change 
or not, in the State of Nevada, we are seeing the serious 
effects of it, mainly for the dryness, the lack of water, the 
lack of snow that we get every year. Wildfires are huge. Tribal 
lands have lost thousands of acres this year, more than in a 
long, long time, so we are seeing the effects. Along with that 
comes the loss of cultural plants, medicines, and these things 
weren't only just wiped out from the fires. They were being 
wiped out before that because we are not getting the weather 
that we used to, and unless we take action, they are just going 
to die off naturally. They will not grow back. Action needs to 
be taken. Funding needs to be provided for that, for 
restoration. All we have is the hopes that our future 
generations will be able to know what these cultural 
traditional plants and medicines were instead of them being in 
history books. So we need to take action now.
    I will give you a specific example. First, the Washoe 
people are concerned as the pine nuts and the pine nut trees 
are half wiped out by the fire, the other half drying out 
because of bug infestations because we don't get the snowpacks 
that Nevada used to get. Now, along with that, there is also a 
program for cultural language historical preservation. Many of 
the tribes in the State of Nevada are very small and very 
rural, so we are spread out all across these land bases. And 
when program funding comes down as competitive grants, we don't 
qualify for them or we don't have the capacity to fulfill the 
needs that the grant is expected to. So funding needs to be 
provided to make changes in those policies so that it will also 
fall under Department of Interior because that is where most of 
the tribal monies usually come from.
    Law enforcement, public safety, emergency services. Within 
the State of Nevada, we have a huge setback, especially for 
those tribes that don't have their own law enforcement or their 
own court systems. We have wait times, delays of up to 45 
minutes response times. That would be fires, life or death 
situations, including homicides that have happened that have 
taken over 40 minutes to get a response from a tribal law 
enforcement officer. So there is a huge deficiency there.
    Along with everybody else, within the State of Nevada, we 
don't have an IHS facility. Being under the Phoenix region, the 
closest IHS facility is in Phoenix, which is an average of 12 
hours away from Northern Nevada tribes, which is where the 
majority of the Nevada tribes are located. Behavioral health is 
a huge issue affecting every community in every reservation. I 
know there was a discussion even yesterday about the advanced 
appropriations, mandatory appropriations, including the word 
``mandatory funding.'' That all needs to be clearly defined for 
tribes so that we know exactly what we are getting and so we 
know what we can expect on a year-to-year basis. In 2019, we 
had the longest shutdown, and we had clinics within the State 
of Nevada that we are shutting down that could not service our 
people.
    In closing, I would just like to say that I hope these 
hearings, consultations are all taken seriously. I really 
appreciate the work that is all being done by the committees 
and subcommittees. And I want to remind everybody that we as 
tribes, we are here because of the trust responsibility of the 
government. We did not choose this. We were told that this is 
the route that we had to go. And as long as we are not allowed 
to be true sovereign nations, as is under the definition of 
trust responsibilities, then we want to uphold and make sure 
that the government is doing what is best for our tribal 
nations and taking everybody's comments seriously. And I look 
forward to working with everybody. I look forward to future 
collaborations, and I hope we can all come together and do the 
right thing for native people and Indian Country.
    Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Smokey follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much for your comments, and, yes, 
we do put a very high value on your comments and your testimony 
today. So thank you for participating.
    Next, we are going to hear from Mr. Harold Frazier, the 
chairman of the Great Plains Tribal Chairmen's Association. 
Please go ahead.
    Mr. Frazier. Good morning, and thank you for the 
opportunity to testify before your committee. My name is Harold 
Frazier, chairman of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe as well as 
the chairman of the Great Plains Tribal Chairmen's Association.
    One of the things that really been a big issue for us is 
roads and billions of dollars that come out for infrastructure. 
However, Congress has developed a formula, and this formula 
does not benefit large, land-based tribes. I will give you an 
example. We have a 3.1 million-acre reservation, and we only 
get $2.2 million, and there is just not enough money, so we are 
constantly doing a lot of patchwork here and there. One of the 
initiatives that we believe in is that Congress needs to 
develop an Indian reservation road program where this funding 
is just for Indian reservations that have roads, and I really 
believe that. There had been a program years ago, but it has 
been faded out into transportation facilities, which really 
does not benefit a lot of not only the Cheyenne River Sioux 
Indian Reservation, but a lot of Great Plains tribes.
    Another big issue, however, that really assists us is road 
maintenance funding, and right now, I am understanding that 
area has been cut, so we really hope that could be restored. 
Another other thing we are hoping for, and I am glad you 
mentioned that President Biden is going to increase school 
construction. That is something that is highly needed here on 
our reservation, and we are in discussion with the BIA for a 
new school and a new campus. Another impact that we want to 
discuss is Head Start. Here on Cheyenne River Sioux Indian 
Reservation, we have nine centers. They are scattered across 
our reservation, which is over 3.1 million acres. Right now, we 
get funding of $2.7 million, and that is our entire budget, and 
of that, $1.7 million is in salaries. So 62 percent of our 
funding is in salaries, but our Head Start teachers and 
teachers' aides are severely under paid. I will give you a 
couple quick examples.
    Here on the Cheyenne River, a lot of teachers that work for 
the BIA, they get started out at $30 an hour, and our head 
Start teachers get $20 dollars an hour. And the teachers' aides 
at our BIE schools here are paid between $15 and $20 an hour, 
and the tribal Head Starts are only paid $9 an hour. And I 
bring these up because I think it is high time that this Head 
Start program is really looked at. They are the first to start 
educating our babies, so I think that this needs to be one of 
the high priorities.
    Another thing that is really impacting our reservation and 
throughout Great Plains is meth, and something that we need 
help in is treatment. Right now there is no funding available 
for meth treatment centers or even programs. I mean, IHS, we 
have been there numerous times to try to get, if not funding, 
some assistance on developing good, successful programs to get 
our, you know, people off the drug and back to the way they 
should be.
    Another impact is drought. That is something that we are 
faced with is drought, and one of the things that is the 
driving force of our reservation is agriculture. But when we 
talk about drought, you know, we need programs that will really 
benefit native ranchers, and, you know, things get changed. A 
lot of regs get changed at the State and the county levels, and 
I think it is high time that this funding for agriculture is 
sent directly to tribes. So that is something that we believe 
in.
    And I want to say, you know, thank you guys for 
infrastructure dollars. However, very disappointed when it 
comes to the infrastructure. A lot of trust responsibilities of 
the government was left out. I will give you a quick example. 
There was no big dollars, no dollars I seen, for law 
enforcement, for education, and for roads. A lot of it was to 
close all mines and things like that, and we kind of looked at 
that infrastructure bill was that it appeared to be that the 
government was paying and cleaning up old debts instead of 
really helping us progress, because IHS was fortunate. They 
received billions of dollars for water and sewer 
infrastructure. But one of the things that really is not very 
helpful is that we need to change some language so that these 
funds can be used for development. Right now we are being told 
that these monies are only for existing systems that are not 
deficient anymore. So it really stunts our development and the 
growth of a lot of our tribes.
    So, again, I want to say thank you for allowing me to 
testify, and I wish you guys all good day, unless there are any 
questions.
    [The statement of Mr. Frazier follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much. Well, we will look forward 
to having a conversation with you, and thank you for your 
remarks.
    So last we have Mr. Melvin Sheldon, who is the First Vice 
President of Affiliated Tribes of Northwest Indians. Thank you 
so much for being with us here today.
    Mr. Sheldon. Good morning, or, I should say, good afternoon 
to all of you. Chairwoman Pingree, Ranking Member Joyce, and 
members of the House Interior Environment and Related Agencies 
Subcommittee, thank you, thank you [Speaking native language] 
for this to opportunity to testify, especially on the upcoming 
fiscal year budget.
    Mel Sheldon. I have served on the Tulalip Tribes for going 
on my 23rd year in council, and I have been on ATNI for 12 
years, and currently the Pacific Northwest delegate at NCAI. 
ATNI has been run since 1953, and we represent 57 tribal 
governments from Oregon, Idaho, Washington, Southeast Alaska, 
Northern California, Western Montana, and Nevada. And probably 
today's testimony will be more of a higher view, trying to 
bring out all of our issues that may be in common with all of 
our tribes that we work with. So also, I would like to say 
thank you to the tribal leaders, chairs, and delegates who 
spoke before me so eloquent in sharing the important issues 
that they represent in their geographic areas. My hand is up to 
all of you.
    First of all, I would like to thank you again for this last 
year, 2022, the amount of money that was in in the Consolidated 
Appropriations Act. This increased funding made a big 
difference for a lot of tribes. Of course, you know, we can 
always use more money as our populations are growing, the 
challenges are growing, things like that. Also, thanking the 
President for this upcoming 2023 $4.5 billion potential and for 
you all's time to decide to and hear from them where it might 
be best put, the money for our needs.
    So please stop at me at 4:45 into it. I tested this. This 
was 9-minutes long what they wrote for me.
    Okay. So strengthening tribal communities. Funding under 
the age of tribal government is vital to a ATNI's member 
tribes. Tribes have an ability to utilize these funds through 
Indian self-determination contracts to focus the funding to 
provide numerous tribal government services and functions. This 
funding provides tribal governments with necessary funds for 
the different programs and will ensure, under proper care, the 
stability and operations of tribal governments. However, 
funding is underfunded, leaving tribes without the additional 
tools necessary to offer core tribal government services. ATNI 
is requesting the subcommittee increase aid to tribal 
governments by $25 million for a total funding of $53.5 
million.
    One of the issues that is so important to all of us is 
ECWA, Indian Child Welfare Act. This is so important for all of 
our communities, which was enacted and established. ECWA also 
is about custody of our kids and also a competitive grant 
funding for tribes to operate child welfare services. This 
grant funding is routinely used to ensure proper placement of 
native children in foster or adoptive homes, sustained tribal 
services to intervene in court proceedings, strengthen tribal 
families, and increase native foster homes. So funding is so 
important for ECWA, and we strongly urge putting $17 million 
into ECWA programming and for the total amount of $36 million.
    As mentioned earlier, natural resources management 
challenges all of the tribes whether they are a land-based 
tribe or a small tribal base, like Tulalip. We are only 22,000 
acres, but management of our resources--the timber, the water, 
the rivers--are so important to all of the tribes that ATNI 
represents. Myself being a fisherman for or most of my life, 
the salmon is dwindling, disappearing. How can we ensure that 
the salmon survives along with the orca whale out here in the 
Northwest, symbols of our culture, of who we are? And any type 
of monies that goes for natural resources management will help 
out greatly certainly.
    And then when you think about the poorest, our land 
commissioner has a very interesting program for carbon funding, 
the land commissioner, Hilary Franz, and she has got a great 
program. I sure hope it succeeds in carbonization of our 
forests.
    Ms. Pingree. I am going to get you wrap up if you can.
    Mr. Sheldon. Okay, we are there. Okay. Good. You have my 
written comments submitted for the record. Also, being a 
Vietnam veteran, I want to urge funding for all Native-American 
veterans across the country. Currently, I am 100-percent 
disability as Agent-Orange-related cancer. It will be a fight 
until the end for me, but for all veterans, if you all see any 
money to go for our veterans, I raise my hands to you and say 
[Speaking native language.] Thank you, thank you, thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Sheldon follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much for your testimony, and we 
wish you all the best with your health challenges. I just came 
off of a VA subcommittee myself, and we want to do everything 
we can to support our veterans, so thank you for your service 
and for mentioning that.
    Mr. Sheldon. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Okay. Now we will go into the question 
portion, and I will begin with a couple of questions for Chief 
Francis.
    In your written testimony, you are supporting increased 
funding for the tribal courts. I know that is an important 
issue, too. The fiscal year 2023 President's budget includes an 
additional $9.5 million over the 2022-enacted level for tribal 
courts. Can you describe some of the challenges that the USET 
tribes face with insufficient tribal court funding, and just 
tell me if all of the USET tribes receive some tribal court 
funding?
    Mr. Francis. Thank you, Congresswoman, for the question. 
You know, the institutions of tribal courts within sovereign 
governments are extremely important. USET, like all regions, 
has a tremendous amount of diversity amongst its memberships, 
from law-trained courts like ours at Penobscot, to various 
types of traditional base courts, et cetera. But ultimately, 
the funding for tribal courts is so extremely important when 
you are dealing with, you know, holistic, wraparound approaches 
in various ways within the court. I use the Violence Against 
Women Act provisions, for example, that were so very important 
that this Congress passed recently. Enhancing those 
jurisdictional capabilities requires funding and an opportunity 
to really strengthen those services, to provide real 
opportunities to address real conditions.
    So the funding of tribal courts is not simply about funding 
a program. It is really about an important institution within 
any sovereign government that creates not only justice for our 
people in a culturally-sensitive kind of way with, you know, 
restorative justice programs and a whole host of other things, 
but it is extremely important for the success of any government 
to have a competent, enhanced judicial system. So we appreciate 
the enhancements to the funding for tribal courts, and we look 
forward. And, again, thank you and our delegation for 
supporting the main tribes being included in the VAWA 
reauthorization, and recognizing the importance of that 
institution to the success of our communities.
    Ms. Pingree. Well, thank you for that, and, as you know, we 
are very supportive of the bill. It means we wouldn't have to 
specifically include the main tribes into every piece of 
legislation, but I am glad we were able to do that.
    Ms. Kitka, you mentioned a little bit about the real 
challenges that tribes in Alaska are facing because of climate 
change, and I know some of the tribes have already had to begin 
relocating or thinking about that. I have just a couple of 
minutes, but could you just elaborate some more on the 
challenges that tribes are facing, and particularly around 
relocation?
    Ms. Kitka. Madam Chair and members of the committee, thank 
you for the question. Some of the challenges the tribes have is 
accessing resources to move buildings. We have been doing some 
really creative things to help the tribes on that. For example, 
moving health clinics, we have a health clinic model. We have a 
movable model, so we have been looking at other ones. What 
would be really helpful for some of our communities is support 
behind project managers that can piece together different 
resources in order to meet the high costs on that. We have seen 
success in one community, in particular, that continually got 
denied resources for their relocation, but once they got a 
project manager that was able to communicate in the same way 
with the different funding agencies, they were able to 
streamline; the ability to use surplus heavy equipment both for 
stand and defend operations for people who don't want to 
relocate. They just want to build up barriers in order to 
protect themselves from the storms.
    The ultimate problem is the high cost in relocation and 
getting suitable land close by to do it, and then it is the 
physical relocation on that. We have seven communities that are 
one major storm away from being wiped out, and so it is real. 
People are being really flexible trying to figure out the best 
ways to do that. I think that we have good ideas, but, like I 
said, the project managers to support piecing the things 
together and appoint Federal agencies that are in charge. 
During the Obama Administration, they designated the Denali 
Commission as the Federal point agency for village relocation. 
They a relocation program that they operate that is federally 
funded. Plussing up their resources on that would go a long 
way. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah, thank you so much for your response. I 
hope we can be helpful in that huge challenge you are facing.
    Now I am going to recognize Mr. Joyce for any questions he 
may have.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to talk to 
President Smokey. The question I have, sir, is your testimony 
mentioned the growth of cannabis dispensaries, and I want to 
ask you about the law enforcement problems that have been in 
the news. In particular, last year, BIA law enforcement 
officers raided a home on the land of the Picuris Pueblo in New 
Mexico, and they seized a man's legal supply of medical 
cannabis, despite the fact that the Pueblo passed laws 
legalizing its use. This discriminatory double standard 
concerns me greatly. I am wondering if tribes in Nevada have 
similar concerns and what we can do to keep the BIA focused on 
more pressing public safety and justice needs, including 
missing and murdered indigenous women and human trafficking.
    Mr. Smokey. Yes, thank you. I have not received any word of 
that type of incidents happening with the tribes that do have 
legal cannabis and dispensaries in Nevada, but it might be hard 
to do when you only have two BIA officers for the whole entire 
State. And thank you for bringing that up because that is 
actually where the real issue lies is the lack of law 
enforcement within the BIA to be able to patrol tribal lands 
for all the tribes in the State of Nevada. But that type of 
incident specifically, I have not been aware of. Every tribe 
has been doing fairly well.
    Mr. Joyce. Well, I can't overemphasize the importance of 
tribal sovereignty. Tribes existed before the States, and 
tribes have just as much of a right to continue to govern 
themselves. It is unconscionable the Federal Government would 
take a hands-off approach with the States but enforce its will 
upon the tribes. It is discriminatory, it is not right, and it 
needs to stop.
    Your testimony, President Smokey, discusses the importance 
of the Environmental Protection Agency's Indian Environmental 
General Assistance Program, known as GAP. As you may be aware, 
yesterday EPA announced proposed changes to GAP program 
guidance and allocations. Can you take a moment to describe the 
impact GAP has had on tribes and program change you might 
suggest, that could help improve the program's ability to 
assist tribes in making environmental decisions to better 
protect their air, land, and waters?
    Mr. Smokey. Yes. So the GAP Program has actually been 
really good to tribes, but as I mentioned even earlier in 
testimony, it provides the bare minimum. Tribes are forced to 
really compete with other tribes and other organizations for 
outside funding in order to really meet the needs that they 
have. Tribes do what they can. We are going to do what we can 
for our people and for our land with whatever we get. But that 
is what our request was, was for more funding towards those 
programs because when they remain stagnant, then we don't have 
any additional support, and we are stuck with the programs that 
we have, and we are not able to move forward while everything 
else is happening around us. As we talked about the issues 
with, you know, the different changes in climate, we can't 
address those without additional funding.
    Mr. Joyce. I realize others are on, Madam Chair, so I will 
yield back, and if there is a second round, I will have some 
time.
    Ms. Pingree. All right. We will absolutely have more time. 
So it looks like, Mr. Kilmer, we can take you next. We were 
looking at the order, but please go next.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thanks, Madam Chair, and thanks for holding 
this important hearing. First, I want to just thank all the 
witnesses for coming and providing such powerful testimony. I 
have the honor of representing 12 tribes in Washington 6th 
Congressional District. I am honored to have First Vice 
President Sheldon from ATNI with us today.
    As you know, Congress has taken, I think, some much-needed 
and long-needed steps to invest in historically-underfunded and 
under-resourced minority-serving institutions in recent years. 
These institutions provide access to education and 
opportunities to traditionally underrepresented and low-income 
students. I have heard, though, from tribal members about their 
desire to see additional investments in our tribal colleges and 
universities, too. Most of our tribal colleges, like the 
Northwest Indian College in Washington State, which serves over 
1,200 students annually from more than 75 different tribes, do 
not have endowments to support their educational site and their 
goals. Endowments help institutions admit students who struggle 
to afford the cost of attendance, and conduct research, and 
access new technology, and expand and offer academic programs 
and more.
    So my question is for Vice President Sheldon or any of 
other witnesses who wish. Could you just comment on how 
additional funding under the Department of Interior's BIE 
endowment could help tribal colleges and universities carry out 
their missions?
    Mr. Sheldon. Thank you, Congressman. Good to see you, and 
thank you for your kind words. You know, I am well aware of 
Northwest Indian College, and they are doing a great job, and 
getting our kids to attend higher education is a challenge 
because the funding issues. And, you know, a lot of times, too, 
kids are not ready to go to a college that has 40,000 kids 
there. And by staying more local, it offers them the time to 
familiarize themselves with academia, with the time to 
socialize with other tribal kids and build that foundation so 
they can be a success in the future, that they will have the 
tools as they put more and more tools in.
    And certainly, like Northwest Indian College and other 
colleges in Montana that are directed towards Native-American 
kids, funding is a challenge. Not all tribes have the monies to 
send their kids to school. There are not scholarships 
everywhere, so if a kid doesn't have the grades, the athletic 
prowess to get a tuition paid that way, they are kind of out of 
luck. So the type of funding that we could make available, 
whether it be through Federal funding or programs, would be 
greatly appreciated. I worked my way through college 20 to 40 
hours a week, and that had its own way of educating me as well 
as getting my degree at the University of Washington. So, you 
know, I think anything we can do greatly helps. Thank you for 
the question.
    Mr. Kilmer. You bet. Let me direct one more to you. Many 
tribes in the Northwest and elsewhere have tribal historic 
preservation officers, or THPOS, who are responsible for 
consulting with Federal agencies and others to protect, and 
preserve, and revitalize places of significant historical and 
cultural importance to tribes. The number of tribes, though, 
with historic preservation officers has steadily increased over 
the last 20 years as well as requests for tribal consultations. 
So my question to you, Vice President Sheldon or any other 
witnesses, if you wish, can you expand on the importance of 
tribal historic preservation officers just when it comes to 
protecting important cultural and historic sites, and comment 
on how the BIA could ensure appropriate tribal consultation.
    Mr. Smokey. Thank you very much. Yes, very, very important, 
that preservation officer. As we work with different agencies, 
whether it be a city, county, and/or State, the opportunity to 
share the cultural richness that they may not be aware of is so 
important. And we are seeing more and more different groups 
sitting across the table than before, but we still got a long 
ways to go. For an example, Langley, a small town, they took 
down their story poles because they were not made by Native-
American artists, in respect to tribes. And so we will meet 
with their city council, thank them, and then hopefully we will 
donate a tribal story pole for them in a good way. So a lot of 
good things happening in that respect.
    It does make a difference having a preservation officer 
sharing the culture of who we are and how it how it affects the 
non-tribals out there. A lot of times, non-tribal people don't 
know the history of us, our time living on the land since time 
immemorial, and so a good education and sharing is always 
important.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thanks so much. Thank you, my friend, and thank 
you, Madam Chair, and I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Mr. Kilmer.
    Mr. Stewart, do you have questions you would like to ask?
    Mr. Stewart. Yeah, Madam Chair. Thanks for holding the 
hearing. And to all the witnesses, thanks for not only being 
here today, but for representing your constituents and your 
tribal interests, and it is very important that you have this 
interaction with Congress. I mean, if we don't have a chance to 
talk to you, we are unaware sometimes of the challenges that 
you face. Maybe we are unaware of the intensity of the 
challenges, and this is valuable for us to have this 
interaction with you. So thank you for doing that.
    I am going to be very brief. It is a question that is 
particularly interesting to my, or I should say, important to 
my district and the tribes that I represent in Utah. But I am 
wondering if it may be broader than that as well, and 
particularly, Ms. Kitka, you may have some influence or some 
background in this. And that is, in these very remote areas 
where many of the Native Americans live now on tribal lands and 
other remote parts of the West, emergency air evacuation is a 
real challenge, and, in fact, it has gotten, in some places, to 
be nearly impossible. And some of these families live in areas 
that are, you know, a great distance from not only hospitals, 
but infrastructure, transportation, just a road that is 
drivable, say, in the winter or after heavy rains, for example. 
And the only way to evacuate people in a medical emergency is 
with air evacuation assets that are diminishing. And we had a 
real problem in Southern Utah, for example, where the primary 
contractor there just wasn't able to provide the service 
because they weren't being reimbursed for it, and it is an 
issue that we have been trying to work with for more than 2 
years now.
    I am wondering are any of you aware of other places that 
have the same challenge? And, again, I imagine Alaska would be 
a good example because of the remoteness of some of the tribal 
lands in Alaska. And if you have any insights that would maybe 
help us as we try to fix this problem.
    Ms. Kitka. Madam Chair, would you like me to respond 
through the chair? Yes. No, those challenges, many of those 
challenges were exacerbated with COVID, too, trying to Medevac 
critically-ill people from really remote communities that had 
COVID on that. You had a lot of carriers that weren't able to 
transport people, so that remains for Alaska, our remote 
communities, a vital transportation station. In most of our 
communities, we are not connected to a road system, and air 
traffic, both in healthcare, getting our hospitals a feeder 
system. So we only have a few hospitals in the State that feeds 
from clinics to regional clinics, to a regional hospital, to 
our main hospital on that. And air transport, both in the 
medical field, but for any kind of participation, is extremely 
vital.
    I know that there are programs that support it, and they 
could use additional resources, but especially looking at 
impacts of COVID and how that put carriers out of business, or 
they lost a lot of money during this pandemic. The economic 
recovery, they need to be shored up.
    Mr. Stewart. So, Julie, let me pursue that just a little 
bit. I understand the challenges of COVID, and, again, those 
other things we went through in the last couple years. But 
putting that aside, did you see the same problem where you have 
companies that would be willing and could provide this 
emergency medical transportation, but it is nearly impossible 
for them, again, because they are just not being reimbursed at 
a fair rate. Have you seen that in Alaska, or is that not the 
same problem there?
    Ms. Kitka. I would have to contact our Alaska Tribal Health 
Consortium to get you a written answer on that, and I would be 
glad to do that to give you a few examples on that.
    Mr. Stewart. Yeah.
    Ms. Kitka. I am sure that we have had that situation, but I 
can't give you the specifics, but I will get it to you in 
writing.
    Mr. Stewart. Okay. I appreciate that. And so, Julie, if you 
would follow up because if you are having a problem there, it 
would help us as we are trying to fix this broadly, or if any 
other of the tribal leaders are aware of that, if you would 
reach out to my office and let us know. Again, we want to 
represent all of you, and if many of you are experiencing the 
same challenge, again, if we know about that, it helps us to 
address it. So thank you.
    And with that, Madam Chair, I will yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you, Mr. Stewart.
    We are going to just stick with Nevada here. I think Mrs. 
Lee.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I want to thank 
Ranking Member Joyce as well as all of today's witnesses for 
being here. President Smokey, it is truly an honor to have you 
here representing the Inter-Tribal Council of Nevada. Also, 
thank you for your service to our country both as a member of 
the Army and the National Guard. You are a true public servant 
in every sense of the word, and I give you a warm Nevada 
welcome.
    I want to ask you a couple questions about issues that are 
particularly important to us in Nevada and throughout the West, 
and you did touch on it in your testimony: the alarming study 
that we just found that basically says that the U.S. West is 
experiencing the worst drought in 12 centuries. Secretary of 
Interior Haaland has emphasized, and I quote, ``In this time of 
climate change bearing down on us, indigenous knowledge about 
our natural world will be extremely valuable and important to 
all of us.'' She added that, ``Tribes have been on this 
continent for millennia, for tens of thousands of years, and 
they know how to take care of our land.''
    President Smokey, you touched on how the drought is 
impacting your communities in Nevada and across the West. Could 
you talk about some lessons that the Federal Government could 
draw on for how these communities have been responding both to 
the current crisis and climate change at large?
    Mr. Smokey. Yes, thank you. So I will give you an example 
of what we are doing here at the Washoe Tribe around Lake 
Tahoe. We have groups of tribal members going around actually 
giving speeches and presenting on how the Washoe Tribe used to 
use controlled burns around Lake Tahoe area, knowing that it 
would grow back for three or four generations to come to 
sustain our people. So adding that traditional culture and 
history to modern-day practices is what we are trying to do 
because we have been here for a long time. Our people haven't 
just made it this far for no reason. You know, we adapt. We 
know the area. We know what needs to be done, and we have that 
through our history.
    So, of course, you have to take into account everything, 
modern day, what is going on, but when I go back to the 
wildfires, this was the issue in the first place was all of 
these old practices were not being done. And every time there 
is a fire, we want to just put it right out right away because 
there are houses, residentials, and everything like that, which 
makes it difficult. But at the same time, we could still be 
using the old practices to at least mitigate, you know, things 
that have happened, especially recently in Nevada with the 
Tamarack fire. It was huge, especially impacting the Washoe 
Tribe, but there are others all around the State as well, and 
they are they are suffering from the same issues.
    We are all suffering from the same issues: lack of water, 
drying out, trees dying, cultural foods, medicines. You know, 
all those things are happening all across, and each tribe has 
their specific practices that they have used for their specific 
areas. So it would really be helpful if the government would 
listen and government agencies would listen to those tribes for 
their specific areas to understand how they have maintained 
those areas since their existence.
    Ms. Kitka. Madam Chair could I address the drought?
    Mrs. Lee. Yes.
    Ms. Kitka. Alaska had the longest duration of drought that 
lasted for 79 weeks beginning in 2018, so the idea of drought 
being only in one part of the country, the climate change is 
also impacting us here in Alaska. So further attention to 
dealing with that, we really support that. Thank you.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you. Madam Chair, I am going to run out of 
time before I can ask my second question, so I will yield. 
Thank you.
    Mrs. Lee. Thanks very much. Chair McCollum, do you have 
some questions you would like to ask?
    Ms. McCollum. Yes. First off, thank you, Chair Pingree, for 
holding this hearing today, and I want to thank all the leaders 
from the tribal organizations for sharing their testimony for 
what we can do to work together in a better partnership for 
Indian Country. I also want to add for the record my thanks to 
all national tribal organizations who testified yesterday. I 
was chairing another appropriations hearing at the same time. I 
was unable to hear the testimony in person, but Rebecca Taylor 
from my office, of course, was on that call.
    One of the topics that has come up a lot, it has to do with 
the President's budget, and it has been getting a lot of 
attention from tribal leaders, and it is a proposal to move 
certain accounts to mandatory spending. Contract support costs, 
payments for tribal leases are proposed to be moved to become 
mandatory for the Indian Health Service, the Bureau of Indian 
Affairs, and the Bureau of Indian Education. As for the IHS, 
the funding is proposed to shift from mandatory, and that would 
exempt it from any sequestration in the future, and we need to 
also protect it for any possible government shutdown in the 
future.
    So this is a topic that many of us on this subcommittee 
have been discussing with tribal leaders, such as yourself, for 
a long time, and I am so excited to see the Biden 
administration join in on the conversation. There is no 
question that our treaty trust responsibilities are not getting 
the investments that they are obligated to get to through the 
discretionary appropriations process. And that is not due to 
lack of effort for those of us on this committee and for those 
of us on both sides of the aisle who work with Indian Country.
    But I would like to take a second just to focus in on an 
issue that Chief Francis raised, something I have been working 
on for 20 years since I got here, and that is the lack of 
detail from the Office of Budget and Management and the funding 
that reaches Indian Country. Now, OMB, under its new leadership 
under Ms. Young, I know understands this problem and will be a 
person that we can work with. And as appropriators, we have 
tried to do our level best to increase funding for Indian 
Country, but it is a challenge for even us here, as close to 
OMB as we are, to really watch the investments across the 
various subcommittees. Ms. Pingree and I serve on the 
Agricultural Subcommittee together, and I know we do our level 
best to make sure, where we can help Indian Country in that 
committee, we do.
    So, Chief Francis, could you please, you know, take 2 
minutes plus and tell us what a difference it would make if 
OMB, you know, had an account so that, annually, tribes could 
see what is really being distributed to all of Indian Country. 
And I am going to hold up a piece of paper and one spreadsheet.
    Mr. Francis. Thank you, Congresswoman, for the question, 
and I appreciate seeing you today. This is a very important 
subject. A tribal office within OMB would be extremely 
important to deal with this level of detail that should be 
accounted for. You know, the OMB crosscut, as you know, 
mentions well over $20 billion of resources that are available 
to Indian Country. We in Indian Country really feel like that 
is a grossly inflated number. We believe that that includes a 
lot of money going to States that many times tribes wouldn't 
have the internal resources or even the understanding that 
those funds may be available within State governments that 
tribes could access. It is also important for Congress to be 
able to understand what the true, real starting line is here in 
terms of the unmet need within Indian Country and within tribal 
communities.
    So getting that tribal office in a very dedicated way to 
detail, not what is potentially available, but what is actually 
in reach in Indian Country when we talk about these issues of 
unmet needs. And I appreciate you raising, you know, the 
mandatory spending. That is an extremely important issue as 
well, and they are all tied together in terms of really trying 
to understand how to meet the trust and treaty obligations to 
Indian tribes. So when we talk about the historic nature of 
this budget, for example, and I know we are preaching to the 
choir here, but when we talk about the historic nature of this 
budget, it is not really about a numbers-driven thing. It is 
really about how do we create a new paradigm that really says 
Indian Country is not only important. The nation-to-Nation 
relationship is not only important. We mandatorily now have to 
seek solutions to these issues that face Indian Country.
    And I think an office at OMB that would detail these 
reports, not only for Indian country, but for the success of 
Congress in being able to truly measure how we are addressing 
the disparities in funding in Indian Country.
    Ms. McCollum. Thank you. [Speaking native language] to all 
the testifiers, and thank you, Chair Pingree, for holding this 
important hearing.
    Ms. Pingree. Sure. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mr. Joyce, did you have some other questions you would like 
to ask?
    Mr. Joyce. No thank you, Madam Chair. They have been 
addressed through some of the other fine questions that have 
been asked by our other members.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Yeah, people have been asking some 
wonderful questions. I will ask one more, and I think maybe 
Representative Lee will come back on.
    Let's see. I this is for Mr. Frazier, yeah. Mr. Frazier, 
are you available to answer a question?
    Mr. Frazier. Yes.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Great. I didn't see you. Okay. Great. 
So the committee provides funding to the Bureau of Indian 
education for tribal education departments so tribes can have 
more control of the curricula for native students. This seems 
important. In addition, the committee provides native language 
immersion funds to BIE and BIA for students who do not attend 
BIE-funded schools. So do you find that funding for tribal 
education departments in native language immersion at BIE and 
BIA is helping to incorporate native language and culture into 
elementary and secondary curricular, but do you have any ideas 
about how to increase or improve the use of these funds? I just 
want to make sure they are really getting where they need to be 
and are being effective.
    Mr. Frazier. Yeah, thank you. I think one of the things 
that has really been a challenge for a lot of our Lakota 
language teachers is to be treated equal as a teacher that 
teaches math, et cetera. What we have locally at our BIE and 
our contract schools is many a times, particular with a BIE 
school, they are, you know, definitely paid a lot less. There 
is not enough time in the day to teach our language and 
culture. We feel that there needs to be more staffing, you 
know, because what I see is, like, one person, they are forced 
to teach many areas, such as the culture, the language, the 
music, and things like that, versus I think there should be 
teachers for each area, you know, for fine arts, et cetera.
    And when you talk about curriculum, I feel it is high time 
the Bureau of Indian Affairs comes up with standards where we 
could teach our children. Right now they don't have any 
standards, so we rely on the State wherever we are located, and 
here in South Dakota, that is something in the area of social 
studies. Our governor was trying to eliminate a lot of Native-
American culture and teachings in the State curriculum, so it 
is ongoing battle with that effort.
    But I really think that if we could get more bodies on the 
ground in particular different areas, I think we will be a lot 
more effective. And earlier, I heard a comment, and it is 
unfortunate that through COVID, we lost a lot of our elders, 
too many of our elders with the language and the culture, 
forever gone. But I thank you for that question.
    Ms. Pingree. Sure. Thank you. I don't know if any of our 
other members have questions. I know it is a busy day, and we 
are getting ready to take votes, so a lot of people have had to 
leave our Zoom. So unless I see any other hands out there, 
which I don't, I am just going to thank all of you. I really 
appreciate the time you took, and not only did you all do a 
great job with the conversation today, but your written 
testimony is just full of a lot of rich information that I 
think will be really important as we put together the fiscal 
year 2023 appropriations bill. So feel free to stay in touch.
    If I don't see any other members raising their hands, I am 
going to declare this committee adjourned, and thank you very 
much for your time.

                                           Thursday, April 7, 2022.

                              MEMBERS' DAY

    Ms. Pingree. Good morning, and welcome to the members of 
Congress witness hearing for the Interior and Environment 
Appropriations Subcommittee.
    So today we will hear from members of Congress on pressing 
issues, including air quality and monitoring, forest 
management, remediation of abandoned mine lands, and the 
importance of supporting insular areas. The members testifying 
today represent the interests of both Republicans and Democrats 
from cities and rural areas all over the country facing a broad 
range of challenges.
    We have 4 members testifying today. Each witness will have 
5 minutes to present testimony, and we will be using a timer to 
keep us on track. After we hear each testimony, members will 
have an opportunity to ask questions.
    With that, I would like to turn to my friend, Mr. Joyce, to 
see if he has opening remarks.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you for yielding, Chair Pingree, and I 
promise to be brief, and thank you for holding today's hearing 
to receive testimony from our colleagues. I look forward to 
hearing more about the projects and programs in the Interior 
and Environment bill that are important to each of your 
districts and to communities across our country. Your input 
will be critical as we work to fund the agencies under this 
subcommittee's jurisdiction including: the Department of the 
Interior, the EPA, the U.S. Forest Service, the Indian Health 
Service, and several others. Under Chair Pingree's leadership, 
we will work to accommodate these priorities as best we can in 
the fiscal year 2023 appropriations process as it moves 
forward.
    Thank you again to each of our colleagues for taking the 
time out of your busy schedules to speak with us today. We 
thank you for bringing your ideas to our attention. Thank you, 
Chair Pingree. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. Well, we will go ahead and begin, 
and, Representative Griffith, would you like to start us off?
                              ----------                              

                                           Thursday, April 7, 2022.
HON. H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF 
    VIRGINIA
    Mr. Griffith. Yes, thank you very much. I appreciate it, 
and you have got all my materials. But I want to thank you, 
Chairwoman Pingree and Ranking Member Joyce, for what you have 
done in the Abandoned Mine Land Economic Revitalization, now 
known as the AMLER Program. It used to be known as the AML 
Pilot Project. It started off with 3 States, and then we were 
able to get three additional States added, including Virginia.
    In my little corner of Virginia that has coal mines and a 
lot of abandoned coal mine areas that date back decades, this 
program has brought new hope to a lot of communities. We have 
taken down high walls to create industrial development areas. 
We have cleaned up a coal finds pit. That is where the coal was 
too small, and they just dumped it into a lagoon for decades. 
That is just about cleaned up. That will become an economic 
development site of about 200 acres with rail. All this stuff, 
it has got rail, it has got electric, it has got natural gas, 
it has got water, and it is going to be a really great 
opportunity for the community to take an area that was just a 
blight.
    We have done some ecotourism. We have got a solar farm. We 
have helped close off portals for the ecotourism stuff. It is 
just doing some amazing things. And so I just wanted to 
basically say thank you all for what has already been done, and 
to let you know there is still a lot to be done because for 
over 100 years, mining was done before we got the modern laws 
that changed some of the rules. And there are still a lot of 
mine portals, and some high walls, and some other things that 
we can deal with, and then convert it into things that can be 
economic development. The program applies to all, but I can 
only speak to my district. It allows us an opportunity to at 
least begin the process to change our economic fortunes, which, 
as you all know, have not been good over the last couple of 
decades with the diminution in coal production.
    With that being said, again, I appreciate it. I am happy to 
answer any questions, and I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate 
your taking the time to let us know how beneficial that program 
has been and how it has really impacted you and your 
constituents, so that is wonderful to hear. And kudos to your 
own district for taking advantage of those opportunities. It 
just seems like a great way to reclaim abandoned mines, so your 
firsthand knowledge of that, I think, is really helpful to us.
    Mr. Joyce, anything you want to mention?
    Mr. Joyce. No, thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate 
you taking the time to fill us in, and we will look forward to 
working with you on that program in the future.
    [The prepared statement follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Representative Schrier, are you on with us? Do you want 
to----
    Ms. Schrier. I sure am.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. We would love to hear from you. Thank 
you so much.
                              ----------                              

                                           Thursday, April 7, 2022.
HON. KIM SCHRIER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF 
    WASHINGTON
    Ms. Schrier. Excellent. Well, thank you, Chairwoman Pingree 
and Ranking Member Joyce, and it is great to see you, Mr. 
Griffith. I am here today to discuss a few issues of great 
importance to me and my district, specifically funding for 
State and Volunteer Fire Assistance, the Legacy Roads and 
Trails Program, and the Collaborative Forest Landscape 
Restoration Program.
    The first program I want to speak about is the State and 
Volunteer Fire Capacity Programs, previously known as the State 
Volunteer Fire Assistance Programs. Wildfires across my 
district and the country have become bigger and more intense in 
recent years. In fact, in 2021, roughly 59,000 wildland fires 
burned more than 7 million acres and resulted in more than $4.4 
dollars in State and Federal suppression expenditures. These 
programs are essential for keeping communities in my district 
and across the country safe. The State Fire Capacity Program 
helps State and local fire departments respond to wildlife and 
fires and conduct land management activities that mitigate fire 
risk on non-Federal lands. It funds training for State and 
local responders, who are often the first to arrive at a 
wildland fire, as well as equip them with the tools they need 
to put wildland fires out efficiently and safely.
    The Volunteer Fire Capacity Program provides support to 
volunteer fire departments, protecting communities with 
populations of 10,000 or fewer residents. Fire departments 
protecting these smaller communities often lack the necessary 
resources and rely on more volunteer staffing compared to 
departments protecting communities with larger populations. So 
increasing funding and capacity for volunteer fire departments 
is paramount because they are the first responders to more than 
80 percent of wildland fires, whether on State, Federal, or 
private lands. I am leading a bipartisan letter on this program 
with Congressman Mike Bost and respectfully ask the committee 
to fund the State Fire Capacity Program at $79 million and the 
Volunteer Fire Capacity Program at $21 million for fiscal year 
2023.
    Next, I would like to speak about a program that is near 
and dear to my heart called the Legacy Roads and Trails 
Program. And this program leverages public and private funding 
to address water quality issues and access for threatened and 
endangered species, like Chinook salmon, bull trout, and 
steelhead. It was created in 2008 because the general Forest 
Service road maintenance budget was unable to address the sheer 
volume of blocked culverts, landslides, and washouts which were 
impacting water quality and access for threatened and 
endangered species. The need for funding remains great today. 
The Forest Service has identified a backlog of over $3.5 
billion in deferred maintenance for over 370,000 miles of 
roads, hundreds of culvert projects, and over $600 million for 
priority watershed restoration.
    I also want to comment on some troubling information that I 
heard recently that a significant portion of the funding for 
Legacy Roads and Trails may be redirected to wildfire-related 
work. And let me be clear: as you just heard, you will not find 
a bigger champion for wildfire funding than me, but it is 
critical that funding for this program, which addresses 
critical clean water and aquatic habitat work, is protected. 
The language I have pushed for clearly outlines that Legacy 
Roads and Trails' purpose is to protect or improve water 
quality and drinking water and restore habitat for threatened 
or endangered species. Few programs deliver the recreational, 
environmental, and economic benefits as this program, and I 
respectfully request $100 million for this program in 2023.
    Finally, and I can't see my time, I want to speak about the 
Forest Service's Collaborative Forest Landscape Restoration 
Program, which funds science-based ecosystem restoration of 
priority forest landscapes, particularly in Western fire-prone 
States, like my home State. It leverages national, local, and 
private resources to fund these community-based forest 
management programs, and these programs also support rural 
communities. My district contains many areas identified most at 
risk for catastrophic wildfire, and this program is incredibly 
important. I urge you to support this vital program by 
providing full funding for CFLRP in fiscal year 2023.
    And I sincerely thank you for this opportunity and ask for 
that support. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah, thank you so much for your thoughts and 
your remarks, and for the brilliance of doing that in exactly 5 
minutes without seeing the clock. You are exactly on time, so 
clearly you have been in Congress long enough to master the 5-
minute set of remarks.
    So just a couple things I wanted to say. Well, I know from 
having the privilege of serving with you on the Agriculture 
Committee and both of us coming from States that are heavily 
forested, we share a lot of the same concerns, and so I 
appreciate your speaking up about the things that you are 
observing. And I was really pleased to see that on the 
Collaborative Forest Landscape Restorations Program, we were 
able to secure a significant investment in that and, I think, 
actually doubled the funding for that program. So we are going 
to continue to focus on that, and it is really helpful to hear 
your sense of how important it is.
    I just wanted to mention one thing on the Legacy Roads and 
Trails and the Cooperative Fire Assistance programs. I think it 
is helpful to hear kind of what you are hearing out there. You 
know, when the committee did what we called the fire fix, the 
aim was to reduce fire spendings' impact on the rest of the 
Forest Service budget because, as you mentioned, this is just a 
growing problem, and it often eats up a lot of the Forest 
Service budget. So we also in 2022 reinstated the Legacy Roads 
and Trails line item as a separate program aligned to better 
assist tracking of those dollars.
    So we can talk further about this, but I would love to hear 
more about, you know, sort of your insights into how that money 
is not getting to where it needs to be because we consider it 
an important program. We are trying to make sure that the money 
goes where it needs to go. It is there for a critical purpose, 
and we fully understand that it is very hard to fund wildfires 
at the rate that it is going now. But as I said, that was what 
sort of the quote ``fire fix'' was all about. So we can follow 
up with you on that, but I really appreciate you bringing it to 
our attention, and really thank you for taking the time to come 
before our committee today.
    Mr. Joyce, do you want to add anything else or are you 
good?
    Ms. Pingree. Okay. Good. All right. Well, we will keep 
moving on. Thank you, Representative Schrier.
    [The prepared statement follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Pingree. Representative Garcia, thank you so much for 
being with us today. We would love to hear from you if you are 
able.
                              ----------                              

                                           Thursday, April 7, 2022.
HON. SYLVIA R. GARCIA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF 
    TEXAS
    Ms. Garcia. Yes, ma'am. Well, first of all, thank you so 
much, Chairwoman Pingree, for inviting me today, and Ranking 
Member Joyce, I hope you are comfortable over there. And to any 
of the committee members that may be listening in, I am pleased 
to share with you my fiscal year 2023 appropriations 
priorities.
    I am proud to represent the Texas 29th Congressional 
District that includes part of Houston, South Houston, 
Pasadena, Jacinto City, and Galena Park. Most of those cities 
are in and around the Houston Ship Channel in our industrial 
complex. My district is about 78 percent Latino. The average 
household income is about $48,000, and about one-third of my 
district is uninsured. In fact, just last week when the ACS 
Survey was announced, it was also announced that my district 
now has the highest number of people that are uninsured of any 
district in the country, so it is an area where we are really 
very concerned about health risks.
    So for my district, environmental issues are not just 
health issues but also social justice issues. There are racial 
justice issues. In the last decade, a slew of chemical and 
natural disasters have impacted the air quality of the Greater 
Houston Region. Additionally, the region has struggled with air 
quality control and air monitoring due high amounts of ozone 
pollution and smog. For example, air monitors uncovered 
unusually high levels of a cancer-causing chemical, 
formaldehyde, in Houston in 2021. My community has taken great 
strides to monitor air quality more closely and more equitably 
through local communities, State, Federal, and private 
initiatives.
    I remember well when I was county commissioner that we 
worked real hard to try to get more monitoring in and around 
our Houston Ship Channel, but that is not enough. Increasing 
the number of air monitors is one step in the right direction 
so that we can ensure that communities of color are not 
disproportionately impacted by poor air quality, and we can 
hold bad actors accountable, but certainly more needs to be 
done.
    That is why I am proud to champion a request this year, 
among my colleagues, for strong, robust funding for fiscal year 
2023 Clear Air programs. Specifically, I am asking the 
committee and my colleagues to robustly fund the Environmental 
Protection Agency's State and Tribal Assistance Grants Program. 
The EPA State and Tribal Grants Program offers a variety of 
Clean Water and Clean Air Initiatives. My letter asked for 
strong funding for this program, specifically for air 
monitoring and pollution abatement programs. This funding would 
greatly help communities like mine across the country that have 
long been underserved.
    Everyone deserves the right to breathe clean air. These 
monitors can mitigate the harmful pollution that leads to poor 
health outcomes, higher healthcare costs, and potential long-
term disabilities and illnesses that prevent people from 
working. I am proud to see that the committee prioritized 
strong funding last time, and I encourage us to continue that 
funding and make it a little bit more robust. We already have a 
handful of co-signers in our current letter, and, again, our 
priorities for funding is critical, and it is one that can 
benefit everyone: lower/middle income and racially and 
ethnically diverse. Those communities have been the victims of 
environmental injustice for decades, and we can do better.
    Thank you for the consideration to my request. I sincerely 
appreciate the time and hard work that the committee and you 
have spent on making sure that the work of your committee 
reflects the needs and priorities of the districts. So, again, 
I am happy to answer any questions, and thank you so much for 
your time.
    I yield back. I yield back the balance of my time.
    [The prepared statement follows:]
    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    
    Ms. Pingree. Great, and you had 40 seconds left, so you had 
plenty to yield back. Thank you so much. We really appreciate 
your taking the time to come before us and talk a little bit 
about the impact in your community, and I think having the lens 
of environmental justice is so important as we really think how 
our programs are funded and implemented. And actually, I just 
want you to know that your leadership has been very helpful in 
securing increased funding for this program, so it does make a 
big difference that you have chosen to advocate for this.
    I know we are going to be working towards robust funding in 
the fiscal year 2023 bill, but I just wonder if you have any 
suggestions about other ways that EPA could strengthen these 
programs to ensure that they are being as effective as possible 
in your district.
    Ms. Garcia. Well, if there is any way to make sure that if 
the dollars go through our State, that they are guardrails to 
make sure that they do go for this purpose. As you know, I come 
from a State that has a governor that sometimes holds the 
dollars at the capitol and sometimes uses those dollars for 
purposes that the Congress doesn't intend. So finding a way to 
quickly get the money on the ground because I can tell you that 
it seems like Houston has an incident almost, you know, 
sometimes once a month, you know. Some are really bad and some 
are not, but there is something always going on because, you 
know, we are the energy capital of the world. My district is 
home to almost the entire petrochemical complex except for 
Exxon, you know. I am right in the heart of the Houston Ship 
Channel. It is all there, but my workers need to be protected. 
We need more air monitoring, and we need more programs for 
mitigation.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Well, that is very helpful to hear. 
Again, I really appreciate your advocating for this. It is 
extremely important, and your district is a good example of 
that. Anything you want to add, Mr. Joyce?
    Mr. Joyce. No. Thank you, Chair Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. That is quite all right.
    Mr. Garcia. [Inaudible.]
    Ms. Pingree. We are just glad to have your presence, so 
thank you for that.
    And, yes, do we have one more witness? And we are so happy 
to hear from American Samoa, and, Representative Radewagen, 
please tell me if I am mispronouncing your name. And go ahead, 
and we would love to hear from you.
                              ----------                              

                                           Thursday, April 7, 2022.
HON. AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM 
    THE AMERICAN SAMOA
    Mrs. Radewagen. Perfect. Thank you, Chair Pingree and 
Ranking Member Joyce, for the opportunity to testify on behalf 
of an increase for the American Samoa operations account at the 
Department of Interior Office of Insular Affairs for fiscal 
year 2023.
    While the worst is behind most States on Mainland USA, 
almost 10,000 miles away in the Pacific, Omicron rages. 
American Samoa is at its worst state since the pandemic 
outbreak with over 4,000 new cases just in the past few weeks. 
The governor has implemented a Code Red lockdown which will 
last for the foreseeable future. The Federal Government has 
responded quickly and forcefully. I accompanied a FEMA response 
team to American Samoa a few weeks ago, and we in American 
Samoa appreciate their support as our healthcare system has 
been overwhelmed. FEMA had to contract 40 healthcare 
professionals, doctors, nurses, and technicians just to help us 
out at our hospital, which the Army Corps of Engineers has 
reported to Congress is in a state of ``abject failure.''
    Adding to the difficulties, over 1,000 of my constituents 
were stranded away from home for more than 1 year when our 
borders were closed as a protective measure against the 
pandemic. I myself could not get back to my own home district 
for almost 2 years. Can you imagine that? Even when I had the 
opportunity to travel home with the FEMA team, it was for short 
times. I was called back to Washington.
    I humbly ask this committee to help us get a functioning 
hospital, which is a primary charge of the DOI, OIA, ASP 
Account. Additional funding will be needed from other agencies, 
such as DOD, VA, HHS, and the local government, but it is this 
committee's help that is crucial as Interior is the lead. I 
hope that this committee can work with other agencies to find 
comprehensive funding consistent with the Army Corps' findings 
reported to Congress almost 3 years ago.
    Inflation and COVID have taken their toll physically and 
economically in American Samoa. Our tourism is mostly eco- and 
adventure tourism to the American Samoa National Park with 
family run-ins and bed and breakfasts, family businesses that 
were hit especially hard. We were last to receive unemployment 
relief. Months after the rest of the country was getting their 
last checks, we were just getting our first because it took 
that long for the Labor Department to implement the program. 
Similarly, we were shut out of the initial rounds of PPP and 
EIDL Small Business funds. Adjustments were made in the 
American Rescue plan, and other COVID relief measures have been 
a significant aid the past 2 years. Inflation is exacerbated in 
marine-based island economies where food and fuel must be 
shipped in, and local fishermen's fuel costs have skyrocketed 
while the Chinese continue to fish illegally around our EEC and 
marine monuments, seizing even more market share while we play 
fairly by the international rules that restrict our fishing 
days.
    So I ask you, Chair Pingree and Ranking Member Joyce, to 
please look at the well-documented record of the Army Corps of 
Engineers' findings for the need for hospital funding and 
proffered options that range in the hundreds of millions of 
dollars. I am most appreciative of the subcommittee's past work 
to provide increases. I hope that the committee can agree that 
those needs remain and have only increased. Some offset of 
these recent inflationary pressures is needed, and the Army 
Corps report spells out the replacement needs. These funds are 
dedicated to the health and education of our local community, 
which continues to lead the Nation in per capita recruitment to 
the United States Army from our high school ranks. We are a 
proud people always ready to serve our country.
    Thank you both for your time and consideration of the 
people of American Samoa. Madam Chair, I yield back my time.
    [The prepared statement follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Pingree. Well, thank you very much. Thank you for your 
excellent work in representing the people of American Samoa, 
and we are really appreciative that you came before us today. 
My deepest sympathy to the people back home given the COVID 
challenges that they are dealing with right now. You know, it 
is easy for some of us when things seem to be slowing down to 
forget that there are all kinds of places that are in different 
stages of dealing with this horrific illness. So I hope for the 
best, and I hope we can support you in any way.
    And I am just so sorry to hear that you and so many others 
have been restricted from even going home. I can't imagine how 
challenging that must be, but, you know, we want to be able to 
support you in any way possible. I know that the committee put 
$2.5 million in the fiscal year 2022 bill for some of the 
initial planning and design work for the hospital replacement. 
And while it might take multiple sources to get the full 
funding, I certainly pledge, you know, our support to doing all 
that we can to getting that done and, again, to support you in 
any way.
    You know, it is not on the same scale, but I come from a 
State, Maine, where tourism is our largest industry, and so in 
2020, when we were hardest hit by the pandemic, we greatly 
benefited from having PPP and so many other programs. So I 
can't imagine how difficult it has been for all of you not 
having access to that program or having the delays. That really 
had to be extremely difficult. So we will look forward to 
continuing to work with you and working with you on the fiscal 
year 2023 budget, and, again, just thank you so much for the 
work you do and for being before us today.
    Anything, Mr. Joyce that you want to add?
    Mr. Joyce. I second your comments, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. There we go. Well, with that, I think we have 
heard from all of the members who are interested in testifying 
today, and if there are no other members to come before us. I 
don't have any closing remarks, and I don't think Mr. Joyce 
does either, so we will just call this meeting of our committee 
adjourned. So thank you again, everyone, for being with us 
today.

                                         Wednesday, April 27, 2022.

                          U.S. FOREST SERVICE

                               WITNESSES

RANDY MOORE, CHIEF, U.S. FOREST SERVICE, ACCOMPANIED BY ANDRIA WEEKS, 
    ACTING DIRECTOR FOR STRATEGIC PLANNING, BUDGET, AND ACCOUNTABILITY, 
    U.S. FOREST SERVICE
    Ms. Pingree. Good afternoon. This hearing will now come to 
order.
    I would like to welcome to the subcommittee the 20th chief 
of the USDA Forest Service, Randy Moore. We are so pleased to 
have the chance to talk with you today and hear your thoughts 
on the fiscal year 2023 budget request for the Forest Service. 
Joining the chief today is Andria Weeks, acting director of 
strategic planning, budget, and accountability.
    Our hearing today will address the President's 2023 budget 
request for the USDA Forest Service. I am pleased to see 
investments included for climate science and the promotion of 
healthy forests. The budget request includes items, such as 
$320 million for hazardous fuel projects, an increase of $134 
million over the 2022 enacted level; $2.18 billion for the 
National Forest System, an increase of $314 million over the 
2022 enacted level; and $76 million for research and 
development programs, an increase of $26 million over enacted.
    These investments will build upon the fiscal year 2022 
investments this subcommittee secured, including a significant 
increase for wildland fire management funding to allow for the 
implementation of the new Federal $15-per-hour minimum wage for 
firefighters. Also included, a historic investment of $28 
million in the Collaborative Forest Landscape Restoration 
Program, doubling the funding for this program to promote 
collaboration and foster local investment in our forest 
communities across the country; an increase of $35 million for 
forest and rangeland research, both to fuel essential research 
that underpins all the Service's work, and for staff for 
inventory and analysis work, which provides the framework 
necessary for carbon accounting on the national forest land; 
and the reinstatement of the legacy roads and trails line item 
to emphasize the importance of roads and trail remediation work 
that helps threatened species and improves water quality.
    From creating economic development in rural communities to 
reducing extreme heat in urban areas, healthy forests are 
essential to our Nation. Moreover, forests across the country 
are a crucial part of our fight against climate change. One of 
the largest obstacles to healthy forests and long-term carbon 
sequestration is the increase of high-intensity wildfires, 
which are affecting our landscapes. I am concerned to see that 
this year looks like it will be another severe year for 
wildfires. The committee has provided significant investments 
to prevent, combat, and recover from these wildfires in recent 
years. While the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act has 
further provided supplementary funding for these activities, I 
know more needs to be done. I look forward to discussing the 
impact these investments will have and where any gaps in our 
response may still remain.
    I would now like to yield to our ranking member, Mr. Joyce, 
for his opening remarks.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you for yielding, Chair Pingree, and for 
holding today's hearing. I look forward to partnering with you 
and our colleagues on the subcommittee as we begin our work on 
the fiscal year 2023 budget. I am pleased we are joined today 
by the 20th chief of the U.S. Forest Service, Randy Moore, and 
Ms. Weeks. Chief Moore, congratulations on your appointment, 
and welcome to your first hearing before the subcommittee. We 
are a tough crowd.
    I have no doubt that your long career at the Forest Service 
will serve the Nation and our forests and grasslands well. You 
bring a unique perspective to the chief role since you 
previously served as a Regional Forester in both the Pacific 
Southwest Region and the Eastern Region. I look forward to 
hearing your perspective on the Forest Service's planned 
investments and goals for the upcoming fiscal year, and how 
these reasonably build on the funding Congress provided in 
fiscal year 2022.
    For fiscal year 2023, the request asks for an additional 
$1.04 billion in base Forest Service funding, nearly a 20-
percent increase over the enacted level. While was proud of the 
key investments Congress provided for the Forest Service in 
fiscal year 2022 to protect and manage our Nation's forests and 
support our wild and firefighters, I have serious concerns 
about the scale of increases proposed in the President's 
request this year. As the Nation faces record inflation, we 
must be extremely cognizant of the financial decisions we are 
making and do not saddle our future generations with 
unnecessary economic burdens and debt.
    Like all Americans, the Federal Government must live within 
its means, and doing so will require us to make difficult 
choices and discern wants from actual needs. While it will be 
financially difficult to provide the Forest Service's full 
request, I look forward to working with you, Chair Pingree, and 
our colleagues to ensure the Agency has the resources it needs 
to carry out its important mission.
    I was pleased to see that wildland fire management 
continues to be a top priority for the Agency in fiscal year 
2023. The request includes significant funding to support our 
wildland firefighters, aviation resources, and high priority 
hazardous fuels and forest resilience projects. While fire 
investments are critical, we cannot forget that we must also 
provide the resources and flexibilities for the Forest Service 
to actively manage and treat our Nation's forests. Proactive 
forest management is key to improving wildlife habitat, making 
our forests more resilient to diseases and invasive species, 
and mitigating the risk and skyrocketing costs of catastrophic 
wildfires.
    Perhaps now more than ever, forest management is a critical 
tool to protecting the long-term vitality of one of our 
Nation's most valued domestic natural resources and ensuring we 
do not need to rely on foreign countries for wood products. 
Chief Moore, given your time as Regional Forester for the 
Eastern Region, it probably comes as no surprise to you that I 
am also interested in discussing how the fiscal year 2023 
request supports State and Private Forestry programs. The Urban 
and Community Forestry, Forest Health Management, and Forest 
Stewardship programs are critical in my home State of Ohio and 
other States across the Eastern Region, where a large 
percentage of forest land is privately owned, and urban forests 
are prevalent. While I noticed some slight reductions to these 
program, I look forward to working with my colleagues to ensure 
that they receive the attention and the resources they deserve. 
State and Private Forestry funds are crucial to keeping our 
State and private forests protected and healthy and our forest 
canopies robust so they can continue to provide communities 
with clean air and water, recreational opportunities, mineral 
and energy resources, and jobs.
    Today, we are also interested in hearing about the Forest 
Service's ongoing work related to the Great American Outdoors 
Act. As the Agency prepares for a third year of GAOA funding, 
it would be good to understand how these investments have 
helped the Forest Service make strides in conserving public 
lands, tackling maintenance backlogs, and increasing visitor 
access and recreational opportunities, and where potential 
roadblocks might exist. Finally, it would be good to discuss 
the Forest Service's plans for implementing the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act, which provided billions of dollars in 
advance appropriations for the Forest Service. Over the coming 
years, we intend to engage in active oversight of the spending 
of those funds to ensure there is a value for the taxpayer and 
our natural resources without waste, fraud, and abuse.
    Chief Moore, thank you again for joining us this afternoon. 
Your stewardship of the Forest Service is important to our 
environment and communities across the U.S., and we wish you 
all the best in this role. I look forward to our discussion and 
working with you.
    Thank you, again, Chair Pingree. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you, Mr. Joyce, very much for your 
statement, and, Chief Moore, you can see we are very excited to 
have you at our committee today, and we would love to hear your 
opening remarks.
    Mr. Moore. So, Chair Pingree, Ranking Member Joyce, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to 
testify before you today. You know, as I close in on my first 
year as chief, I appreciate the opportunity to provide an 
overview of the benefits that the Forest Service delivers to 
the American people and the outcomes we plan to achieve with 
the resources provided in this proposed fiscal year 2023 
budget.
    The bottom line for the Forest Service is in our motto: 
``Caring for the Land and Serving People.'' It's really what we 
are about. Our job is to sustain healthy, resilient landscapes 
for current and future generations. The national forests and 
grasslands cover about 193 million acres in 43 different 
States, including Puerto Rico. They are the source of drinking 
water for more than 60 million people living in 3,400 
communities across 36 States. In 2020, the National Forest 
System supported more than 370,000 jobs and contributed more 
than $35 billion to the GDP.
    But the benefits that Americans get from their forests and 
grasslands are now at risk. The risks include wildfire crisis 
facing the Nation and the impacts of our changing climate. The 
Forest Service is squarely facing these risks. Improving the 
conditions that we are seeing will require sound science, 
sustained resources, the use of all the tools in our toolbox, a 
robust workforce, hard work, and collaboration with our 
partners. I appreciate the confidence that Congress has 
demonstrated in the Forest Service with the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act. These funds, coupled with the fiscal 
year 2023 budget request, will help restore the long-term 
health and resilience of the Nation's forests and grasslands.
    The Forest Service's fiscal year 2023 discretionary budget 
request is $9 billion. Working with our partners, we will 
improve the resilience of landscapes and watersheds across 
boundaries and reduce wildfire risk by treating the right acres 
at the right scale. We will restore infrastructure, support 
outdoor recreation, and invest in reforested landscapes that 
have been ravaged by wildfires, storms, and other events.
    The wildfire crisis has been building for decades, as you 
know, but we now have the science and tools to implement 
projects that will truly make a difference. The budget, as you 
indicated, dedicates about $321 million for hazardous fuels. 
This will support about 308 million acres of hazard fuels 
reduction treatment projects. This investment supports the 
Agency's 10-year strategy to confront the Nation's wildfire 
crisis. At the same time, we are preparing for another long and 
arduous fire year, made worse by a continuing severe drought 
across the West. Our priority is to protect the health, safety, 
and well-being of the fire management community and the public 
we serve.
    The budget dedicates $1 billion to wildland fire management 
salaries and expenses. This investment will enable us to pay 
all firefighters at least $15 an hour, fund more than 300 
additional firefighters and support personnel, and support 
resilient and mental health programs. But we need to find a 
permanent solution to increase our firefighters' pay and make 
other system changes to ensure firefighting is a career that 
others will pursue in the future, and I want to work with you 
on that.
    Climate change is altering ecosystems nationwide. It has 
amplified impacts of fire, disease, insects, and invasive 
species, and it is shrinking our habitat for our native plans 
and wildlife. The fiscal year 2023 budget builds on the climate 
change investments contained in the fiscal year 2022 budget. 
Our fiscal year 2023 budget request of $318 million of forest 
and rangeland research will continue our work in addressing 
climate change and other critical research needs.
    Our infrastructure needs are pressing as are our economic 
needs of Americans. The fiscal year 2023 budget request 
stimulates construction and maintenance activities in national, 
regional, and local economies. We are grateful for the Great 
Outdoors American Act funds. That helped stabilize our $6.3 
billion maintenance backlog.
    The National forests and grasslands belong to every 
American. They encompass ancestral lands and tribal 
territories. Every person should feel the personal invitation 
and connection to these lands. The Forest Service is addressing 
inequity by ensuring that historically-underserved groups can 
more fully access and participate in Agency programs and 
services. We have taken significant steps to improve policies, 
accountability, and training to ensure a work environment that 
is equitable, respectful, and free from harassments of any 
kind.
    So, in closing, we know what is at stake if we do not 
address the wildfire crisis: the health of our communities, the 
clean water, the camping trips, the wood products, jobs that 
Americans depend on for the national forests and grasslands to 
provide. The risks facing these lands are significant and 
growing. That is why we need to act now. We need to act 
together and act with dedication to meet the challenges before 
us with sound science as our guide. So we are all in. We are 
ready to serve, and we have been here since 1905. Again, thank 
you, and we are grateful to you all for your interest and 
support, and I look forward to any questions that you may have.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much, Chief Moore, for your 
testimony. We really appreciate the years of experience you 
bring to this job and looking forward to working with you going 
into the future.
    I will start the questioning with my own questions, and I 
am going to jump right into some of the issues related to wood 
innovation. It is an important topic in my home State of Maine 
and certainly in many others as we look forward to new and 
innovative wood products. We held a hearing on this topic last 
year and discussed the work of the Forest Products Laboratory 
as well as programs, such as wood innovation grants. In the 
subsequent House bill and fiscal year 2022 enacted bill, we 
included milestone investments in programs that promote the use 
of small diameter timber and innovative wood products that 
utilize sustainable forestry. The fiscal year 2022 bill 
included $12 million for the Community Wood Energy Program and 
$20 million for wood innovation grants and language regarding 
mass timber and other promising wood topics.
    So I would love to hear you talk about this a little bit, 
and it would be great if you can cover a little bit about how 
these investments will be implemented and the on-the-ground 
effects of these investments that the public will see in rural 
communities, including economic development. And I would also 
love it if you could include what progress has been made in the 
last year to expand the market and potentially uses for low-
value and hazardous fuels type of timber, and what other 
challenges do you see existing as we move forward.
    Mr. Moore. So, Chairwoman, you know, that is really a great 
question, and I just had conversations just last week up in 
Skamania with industry talking about helping the Forest Service 
shift gears and us working together with our environmental 
community on what is needed based on the type of material that 
we have out on the national forests and, really, on those 
landscapes to remove. You know, it is not just about sell-offs 
anymore. It is really about low-value, small-diameter wood. 
That is what we have. That is what we have an abundance on our 
forests, and that is what is serving as ladder fuels and 
kindling for these fires that we are seeing across the 
landscape.
    So the question really is, is there a different way to look 
at utilizing material that we have to remove while we create 
jobs in these small rural communities where most of this is 
located, and can we look at wood innovation as a way to help us 
do that. So we are asking industry to work with us, and we are 
asking the environmental community to work with us. Now, the 
Forest Service really provides leadership on innovative wood 
products, and, you know, we feel that this potential is 
critical to the future of sustainable forest management. The 
market for innovative wood, really, we are looking at 
incentivizing forest stewardship to help keep forests as 
forests.
    So in our research and development, it is really supporting 
some of the largest forest management and wood research 
innovation in the world. And our Forest Products Lab there in 
Madison, Wisconsin, is really serving as a hub for basic and 
applied research where we coordinate the work of numerous 
academic, governmental, industrial, and nonprofit groups to 
kick off and accelerate the development of innovative forest 
products that will provide some economic and environmental 
benefits to the Nation. So we are moving rapidly and looking at 
some of these bio-char, cross-laminated timber as some of those 
things, looking at nanotechnology, advanced composites, and 
advanced structural material working with the architectural 
industry.
    So we are rapidly working with the different groups to 
really help us make a shift from where we are to where we need 
to be, and actually I am pretty excited about the reception 
that we are getting, looking at different uses of this material 
that is really serving as kindling for these large catastrophic 
wildfires.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Well, thank you. Thank you for the work 
that you are doing and the Lab is doing, and I think we have a 
lot of exciting things to talk about going into the future. So 
I will yield back my own time and go to the ranking member for 
his questions.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Madam Chair. I recently hosted a 
roundtable in my district with Interior Secretary Deb Haaland 
and local conservancy folks to discuss, among other issues, the 
benefits of turning abandoned properties into green spaces and 
the positive impact these areas and urban reforestation efforts 
can have on hard-hit communities, like those on the East side 
of Cleveland. Chief Moore, having previously served as a 
Regional Forester overseeing the Eastern Region, which has the 
largest number of urban areas of all nine Forest Service 
regions, could you take a moment to discuss the positive 
impacts urban reforestation has on children and their 
communities to public health and the environment?
    Mr. Moore. Ranking Member, thank you for that question as 
well. Let me start by saying when I was in the Eastern Region, 
I created the Urban Connections Program, and there was a need, 
just like you have described, to really get into a lot of the 
large urban areas to not only just learn how to bring people in 
urban areas out to the forest, but how do we create the green 
space within these urban areas, and how do we take parts of a 
city and turn it into green space? And so we partnered with 
some of our partners in some ways to create what we call pocket 
parks and green alleyways. And so when I was in the Eastern 
Region, we had some initial starts. We started in Boston, 
Detroit, Minneapolis, and New York. And so that is where we 
started putting employees there to have education opportunities 
to talk about urban populations.
    You know, one of the things that we recognize is that urban 
forests are about 20 percent of all forests in the U.S., and 
they provide really an important opportunity to increase carbon 
sequestration and really look at trying to mitigate the effects 
of climate change. And, you know, we have seen areas in large 
cities where there are no trees, and we know the value of trees 
in some of these areas cutting down on utility bills. We also 
know the value of urban trees bringing birds into the 
neighborhood. We know that there is a lot of peace, and just 
serenity in just being able to sit out under trees. We also 
have been working with doctors who write a prescription for a 
walk in the woods.
    And so I think it is demonstrated that there is a lot of 
value in this, and so the question for us, I believe, is that 
how do we do more of this kind of work to reach more people, to 
create that stewardship ethic within as well as outside these 
urban areas. And so we would love to work with you going 
forward on some ideas that you may have, but here, again, we 
are all in on this ideal, and we have began to put a lot of 
positions into these areas so that we can learn from our public 
in these urban areas what is it that they are looking for. What 
is it that they would like to have? So we will continue to seek 
opportunities to increase reforestation in urban areas and on 
State, and tribal, and private lands across the country.
    Mr. Joyce. And it would appear that Chair McCollum has the 
perfect backdrop there with all those green trees in her 
background. As you well know, Ohio and other Eastern Region 
states rely heavily on the State and Private Forestry programs, 
especially Urban and Community Forestry. Unfortunately, 
compared to the enacted level, the President's fiscal year 2023 
budget proposes cutting Urban and Community Forest funding. 
What impact would this potential funding cut have on the Forest 
Service's ability to build on prior year Urban and Community 
Forestry efforts, address threats to urban forest health and 
resilience, and promote urban reforestation like we have seen 
working in Cleveland?
    Mr. Moore. Well, I think we have some opportunities within 
the budgets that we have, and even though we may have a certain 
amount set aside for certain things, I think when we look at 
landscape perspectives, and we look at our partners, and we 
look at how do we bring all of our community to the table, and 
how do we look at how we work together to do more. And so even 
if and even when our budget may be reduced in one program area, 
one budget area, the challenge is really to bring that greater 
community to help leverage what we might want to do and what we 
might not be able to do in order to get this work done. You 
know, there is a rural-to-urban gradient, and when you look at 
landscape-level treatments, I think we have to be inclusive. We 
have to look at having equity in our disadvantaged communities. 
We have to look across the whole spectrum and not necessarily 
be guided by what is in a particular budget when you look at 
the direction and the guidelines in the budget, I think in some 
cases we have more flexibility than what we might think that we 
do.
    And I certainly think that working with partners leverage 
our ability to do more of this kind of work because it is, as 
you indicated, it is important.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, sir. I have exceeded my time, Madam 
Chair. I yield back what little time I have left.
    Ms. Pingree. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Joyce, and next 
we go to Chairwoman McCollum. Thank you very much for bringing 
some trees to our hearing today, and we will let you proceed 
with your questions.
    Ms. McCollum. Well, thank you, Chairwoman Pingree, for 
having today's hearing. And first and foremost, 
congratulations, Chief Moore, the 24th Forest Service chief. 
Congratulations to you. And I am singing Mr. Joyce's song here. 
I am up at tree level, and the urban birds really do want your 
attention, so I will be working with Mr. Joyce on that.
    I would like to take just a moment to talk about the Office 
of International Programs on the work that you do partnering 
overseas to support sustainability, forest management, and the 
conservation of biodiversity. I had the opportunity to travel 
internationally to see some of your projects in the countries 
you work in, the best soft power we have. You work on climate 
change, illegal logging, associated trade disaster assistance, 
to stop illegal timber harvest, and undercutting the wood 
production here in the U.S. So all the same time you are doing 
global conservation, saving our planet. So hats off to the work 
you do there.
    I want to talk about watersheds. We don't put the right 
value on water because water is life sustaining. And, you know, 
as you pointed out, out 53 percent of the total of certain 
forests, modern U.S. forests, right? So the Forest Service has 
a special responsibility to protect those watersheds, including 
the priceless watershed and the water in Minnesota, our 
Boundary Waters National Canoe Wilderness Area. So I am 
grateful for the Biden administration for restarting the study 
on the mineral withdrawals in the watershed. I look forward to 
seeing that as soon as possible. There have been a couple 
delays, but we are hopeful that we will have it in the next 
month or two.
    So I know you can't comment on any further than that. The 
study is the study, right? But could you maybe talk a little 
more about what the [inaudible] role that you play on that, and 
then [inaudible] role and sometimes how you are in conflict. 
You are on the surface, and the BLM has the subsurface. So just 
talk about your role in protecting our water.
    Mr. Moore. Okay. So, Congresswoman McCollum, I think I 
heard most of what you were saying. I don't know if it is my 
system or yours, but you were coming in and out. So let me 
start with where you originally started talking in terms of 
working internationally across boundaries of the different 
countries. And, you know, we have participated in the past 
looking at going over and providing technical assistance to 
other countries, and we still do. What is interesting, though, 
is that that even though we go over to provide technical 
assistance, we learn so much. Ecosystem services is one of 
those things that we have learned from other countries that we 
know has a place here in the U.S. And I know that wasn't your 
question, and we can talk about that later, but that is one of 
the new frontiers I think we have to explore.
    The other piece is really around water, and I think you 
would agree that water is the most important natural resources 
that flows from the forest. And one of the things I found out 
just this past year is that the Forest Service manages the 
largest single source of water in the U.S., which is about 18 
percent of the water that flows off through national forest 
managed lands. That is a significant amount of water, and if 
you had to put a value on that water, it is in the hundreds of 
billions of dollars.
    So, first of all, thank you for increased funding for 
vegetation and watershed management in fiscal year 2022 
compared to fiscal year 2021. And, you know, I would just make 
a note that in fiscal year 2023, the budget requests a 
significant increase for that program which I think will help 
us really look at supporting healthy, resilient watersheds and 
sustain that production of clean water that I just talked 
about, the 18 percent of the total water flowing through and 
off national forests.
    I think in fiscal year 2023, our goal is to look at 
improving 16 watersheds in Condition Class 1. That is the 
highest level of a watershed function. So we go in and we do an 
assessment. We look at the existing condition of a Watershed 
Condition Class 3, 2, 1, 1 being the best. And so the question, 
and it is rhetorical, but the question that I would lay out 
there is, at some point we should pursue looking at outcomes 
versus outputs. And the Watershed Condition Class is a great 
example of how to look at outcomes of doing the work in a 
watershed rather than the outputs of acres treated, as an 
example. So rather than acres treated, did we move that 
Watershed Condition Class from 3 to 2 or from 2 to 1, and what 
does it take to do that? So I think it is just a different way 
of looking at how can we be responsible to Congress, and how 
can we be responsible to the American people. And I think we 
need to pursue looking at outcomes a bit more.
    Ms. Pingree. Chief Moore?
    Mr. Moore. Yes?
    Ms. Pingree. I have to cut you off. Chair McCollum, do you 
want me to try to get the last question? It was a little hard 
to hear you on the question about BLM and the watershed, so I 
am not sure that you have got your full question. Maybe we 
could put it into the second round? Yeah. I am just going to 
move on because she has a tough connection.
    So next we are going to go to Mr. Stewart for your 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Stewart. Chairwoman, thank you. Chief, thanks for being 
with us. Thanks for your leadership on a lot of these tough 
issues. I think, as I recall, you were working in my neck of 
the woods up in the Cashew International Forest at some point. 
Is that true, Chief?
    Mr. Moore. That is correct.
    Mr. Stewart. Well, I am sure you miss it. We miss you. It 
was one of the most beautiful forests in the country, a 
beautiful area. Thanks for your service there, and as I look at 
your bio, really all around the country you have a diverse 
background, and we know you will be able to apply much of that 
knowledge because your problems aren't just in the West. The 
forest has concerns, you know, across the country as you have 
indicated here today.
    Hey, could I hit a couple things quickly, and I think we 
really can do it quickly. One of them is just to tell you thank 
you. My former chief of staff here in Washington, D.C., is now 
the director of natural resources for the State of Utah, and he 
wanted me to convey to you the shared stewardship and the 
success you have had we feel like we have had with you and that 
it really has been a great partnership. And because we feel 
like it has worked so well, we hope you and the Forest Service 
agree and that you will continue and a commitment to work 
together on that in solving some of these resource problems. 
So, again, thank you, and we hope that you will continue to 
work with Utah and with directors.
    A concern I have, and I will bet you do, too, as well, 
Chief, is that, as you indicated fire management is, of course, 
one of the primary things we want to talk about. As Ms. Pingree 
noted, it is likely this year is not going to be better than 
last year. In fact, it is probably going to be worse based on 
the drought conditions in the West. And so we have appropriated 
more money, but you know, Chief, a 10-year plan, half of that 
money, 5 years of it is supplemented through the infrastructure 
bill. And it worries me that we get your 5, and now we have a 
50-percent reduction. And I wondered if you could comment on 
that and how you think the best way to address it.
    Mr. Moore. So, Congressman, you know, we have a 10-year 
strategy that we developed, and we are looking at a 5-year 
plan. And we are so grateful for Congress passing the 
infrastructure bill because it has given us more hope than we 
have had in a very long time in this Agency. I also want to 
point out, though, that as welcome as that amount of money is, 
we want everyone to understand this is only a downpayment to 
try to really get at addressing a problem that we see ourselves 
facing in this country. And when you look at the 66 or so 
million acres of National Forest System lands alone, not to 
mention the other 100 or so million acres of other private, 
Federal, and tribal lands, you would understand that it just is 
not nearly enough to really get at the problem, but it is a 
good downpayment.
    I think, you know, when you look at the accountability of 
what Congress has done for the American people and for the 
Forest Service, it is up to us now to work with our partners on 
the accountability end. We want to demonstrate to Congress and 
the American people that here is what we are doing with what we 
have. If we had more, we would do more. But we feel like we owe 
it to you to demonstrate that we can be effective and 
successful in trying to address this problem that we have out 
here, particularly on our Western landscapes, but not only the 
Western landscapes. You know, we have disease and insects, 
hurricanes in the East and the South, and so we have problems 
all across the country.
    Mr. Stewart. Yeah.
    Mr. Moore. And we want to demonstrate to you what we are 
going to do with what we have.
    Mr. Stewart. Well, Chief, I appreciate that, and if I could 
just make one suggestion. And then, again, I know that you have 
considered this many times. But that supplemental 
appropriations for forest fire, which, again, we know is going 
to be a challenge, but we hope you will consider as well the 
forest management side of that, that, you know, rather than, 
you know, having fires and just appropriating money to fight 
the fires, to be, as I know you are, lean into that, be 
progressive and to be aggressive in how do we manage our 
forests to mitigate fires or, you know, to actually decrease 
the likelihood of that fires spread. And, again, I know you 
have had that conversation.
    Could I mention one other thing? So now, two things, and, 
Chief, keeping track for us, shared stewardship. I hope you 
will work with us on that, forest management plans to minimize 
the actual number of fires. And then finally, and I didn't know 
that I would be talking to you about this. It is kind of an 
unusual subject, but it has been brought to my attention that 
we have a bit of a bee controversy in Utah in the sense that we 
have got bee owners, and I grew up farming, and we had hives on 
my father's farm. And we got free honey for that. That was 
great deal, but we have some beehive owners and others who 
would love to, you know, put some of their hives on Federal 
lands. And we feel like there is some real benefit of that and 
the colonization that they would provide. But then we have some 
who oppose that. They say that it crowds out the natural 
pollinators.
    I mean, I didn't know that there was bee crowding on our 
Federal lands. In fact, I think a lot of us are fearful that, 
you know, our honeybees and others, there is a diminishing 
population. But I wonder if you could comment on that or if 
that is something that, you know, we could work with you as 
well to maybe make that opportunity available for private bee 
owners who would like to, again, put hives on public lands.
    Ms. Pingree. I am sorry to say, Mr. Stewart, but you have 
gone over your time. So, Mr. Moore, if you could just either 
answer it in writing or we will save it for the second round.
    Mr. Stewart. Yeah, Chief, if you would, maybe we will just 
talk to you writing. I am sorry, Ms. Pingree. We don't have a 
timer, so I have a tendency to lose track, but thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. They were all, you know, excellent remarks, so 
we appreciate your comments.
    Mr. Stewart. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Mr. Kilmer, to you.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Madam Chair, and, Chief, thanks for 
being with us today. I am really grateful for the work that the 
Forest Service does all over our country, but I want to focus 
on my first and top priority, which is the Olympic National 
Forest. That is an ecological and economic backbone for the 
region that I represent. First, I want to just extend a 
standing invitation to you to come to our neck of the woods to 
see some of the challenges and some of the opportunities that 
we are having on the Olympic.
    The issues surrounding timber and the Olympic peninsula are 
very personal to me. I grew up in Port Angeles. I was in high 
school right around the time that the timber industry took it 
on the chin. I saw a lot of my friends' parents lose their 
jobs, a lot of my neighbors lose their jobs, and I am tired of 
watching our rural economies that depend on Federal timber 
harvest struggle and folks lose their jobs, and we need your 
help. You know, for the past few years, at every Forest Service 
budget hearing, the concern I have expressed is that the 
Olympic National Forest has persistently failed to produce the 
meaningful harvest levels that are needed, not just to support 
timber-dependent communities, but to improve forest health and 
to deal with critical salmon spawning habitats as well.
    We have really good and really dedicated people working in 
our forest and in our region, but the outcomes just have not 
been acceptable. I have consistently asked the Forest Service 
what can I do, what can this committee do to address the acute 
challenges at the Olympic National Forest. I know that resource 
limitations have impacted operations service-wide, and that is 
something our committee has been working to address. But we are 
experiencing some acute challenges on the Olympic that I could 
really use your help on. I honestly cannot remember the last 
time the ONF met its annual harvest target. We have got to do 
better.
    The timber target in fiscal year 2021 was 20 million board 
feet. The actual was 6. We visited the leadership at the forest 
and we were just told recently that the goal for ONF would be 
down the next couple of years, too. So there are real concerns 
that we are not going to provide adequate predictable harvest. 
So that brings me to the opportunities.
    We have got the Olympic Forest Collaborative that has 
actually united folks from the environmental community and the 
timber industry around a common goal of responsibly increasing 
harvest levels on the ONF. And I am proud to say that we have 
actually executed a few pilot projects that would help the ONF 
produce a couple million additional board feet of timber, also 
accomplishing some important restoration tools. These projects 
have demonstrated the power of collaborative forest planning 
for meeting the goals of our region, but we need to scale up, 
and we really need your help to achieve these benefits, 
especially as rural communities throughout my district continue 
to take it on the chin.
    So I want to be really clear. I am grateful for the 
partnership with the regional forester, Glenn Casamassa, and 
the ONF supervisor, Kelly Lawrence, and her team. Both share my 
commitment to supporting the work of the collaborative, but 
there is only so much we can accomplish without dedicated 
support and resources. So here are the questions I want to ask. 
One, how do you plan to support our region's efforts to 
increase harvest levels and forest restoration projects on the 
Olympic National Forest? Two, what do you need from me and from 
this committee to support that effort because we need your 
help. And three, what resources does the Forest Service need to 
help support forest collaboratives like the Olympic Forest 
Collaborative that don't qualify for the Collaborative Forest 
Landscape Restoration dollars?
    Mr. Moore. So, Congressman Kilmer, first of all, I have to 
compliment you on how well informed you are about what is going 
on that forest in your congressional district. So unlike in the 
past where, you are correct, the Olympic National Forest only 
provides about 6 million board feet out of a 20 million board 
feet target, this year I will have you know that the Olympic 
National Forest is on track to sell approximately 18 million 
board feet of timber in this fiscal year. And that is a really 
a mix of Good Neighbor Authority and other Forest Service 
sales.
    Now, the Good Neighbor Authority is one of those tools that 
we have been pretty proud of, and we are getting a lot of 
mileage out of that, particularly with our partners. And so 
last year, they did sell about 6 million board feet out of a 
20-million board feet target. My conversation with the regional 
forester is that they have looked at creating a plan, a 3-year 
plan, and it is not going to take him 3 years to do it. They 
are going to get it done this year. But it is a 3-year plan 
where they can build a pipeline of timber so that when things 
happen, whether there are fires, or disease and insects, or 
some of those things then, you know, the industry doesn't 
suffer because we really need industry if we are going to work 
our way out of this problem that we have in this country. And 
so it is in everyone's best interest that the industry 
continues to survive in this country because it is one of the 
primary tools that we need to help us with this situation that 
we are in.
    So we are monitoring the Olympic. The regional forester 
there is well aware of your concerns, and I think that you have 
already had more effect than what you may realize because they 
have really turned it around this year, and we are working with 
them to sustain this level.
    Ms. Pingree. Sorry I have to cut you off, but if you want 
to continue that, we can do so in another round. And I am going 
to move on to Mr. Cartwright.
    Mr. Cartwright. Thank you, Chair Pingree, and thank you, 
Chief Moore, for being with us this afternoon.
    As you know, my district in Northeastern Pennsylvania, is 
the home of the first head of the National Forest Service, and 
that was Gifford Pinchot, who was also the 28th governor of 
Pennsylvania. But maybe more importantly, my district is home 
to a lot of forest land, including two State forests, Delaware 
State Forest and the Pinchot State Forest, which are important 
components of the economy and the lifestyle of the region. We 
also have thousands of acres of privately-owned forests used 
for recreation, forest products, natural resource conservation.
    I want to talk about riparian buffers for a moment. As you 
know, my district is in the Chesapeake Bay watershed, which is 
the largest estuary in the United States. Unfortunately, for 
decades, the Chesapeake Bay has been polluted by toxic 
contaminants, like pesticides, pharmaceuticals, metals, and the 
effort to restore the Bay has disproportionately fallen on the 
shoulders of people in my district, people who are already 
struggling just to get by. Now, since joining this committee, I 
have fought hard to secure as much Federal money as possible to 
help offset this local burden by helping townships in my 
district improve their stormwater management systems. These 
investments have been really important for my district but.
    But improving stormwater infrastructure is just one of the 
many strategies that can be used to improve water quality in 
the Chesapeake Bay watershed. As you know, another way we can 
manage pollution in the Chesapeake Bay watershed is by 
restoring riparian forest buffers, which are, essentially, just 
the forests alongside a body of water. These buffers mitigate 
the impacts of water pollution by trapping and filtering 
sediment and pollutants carried by stormwater before it flows 
into the Bay. So the question is, how do resources for riparian 
forest buffers requested in your fiscal year 2023 budget help 
Chesapeake Bay watershed States, like Pennsylvania, meet their 
EPA pollution reduction mandates?
    Mr. Moore. So, Congressman, thank you. So we work through 
our State and private programs on part of the Forest Service, 
and the Forest Service is spearheading a riparian forest buffer 
initiative this spring, and it is things like webinars, 
reports, roundtables. And it is really culminating today with a 
high-level workshop that is being held, and this is for State 
partners to reveal their strategic action plan for riparian 
buffer zones. So we play a supporting role in EPA's watershed 
implementation plans, and this is things like helping with 
funding communications, reporting, coordination on all of their 
forestry-related goals.
    We have also been working with Farm Service Agency to 
provide grants for 12 riparian foresters in the watershed to 
provide additional outreach and technical assistance for these 
riparian buffer zones. So the riparian buffer is largely an 
agriculture practice for the Chesapeake Bay Program, and 
forestry is providing the technical expertise on the forestry 
section of that. But we are engaged, in some cases, as a 
supporting role. For other cases, we provide the technical 
institute. In other cases, we provide funding to bring on the 
needed skills that others may need. And so we are actively 
engaged, sir.
    Mr. Cartwright. Well, I thank you for that, Chief, and, 
Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you for your question. Mr. Harder, 
harder do you have questions today?
    Mr. Harder. I do. Thank you so much, Madam Chair, for 
holding this hearing, and, Chief, thank you so much for 
attending and for your incredible work.
    As you know, wildfires are an existential issue for 
communities like mine in California's Central Valley. Last 
year, we experienced 60 smoke days due to these wildfires, 2 
months out of the year where the air was so filled with smoke 
that it was unsafe for kids to play outside. I grew up with 
childhood asthma. I know how bad it gets out here, and these 
wildfires are only making the air quality situation a lot 
worse. And as you know, I am a huge supporter of the incredible 
work our firefighters are doing to prevent and to fight these 
fires, and I am concerned about the continued shortages. I know 
this budget request is intended to address some of those 
shortages, those labor shortages that we are seeing across 
California and the West.
    You have requested about a billion dollars to fund hiring 
additional firefighters. Can you talk about what it will take 
to get the Forest Service fully staffed for the fire years that 
we are seeing right now, and what more might be necessary based 
on the budget request that you are seeing now?
    Mr. Moore. Yeah, thank you. So, Congressman Harder, I know 
all too well about these wildfires, particularly in California, 
after just coming from there. You know, it is getting tougher: 
99 days last year, which is a record of planning Level 4 and 5. 
This is pretty darn significant, and so we have to do something 
about that. The 10-year strategy takes on a piece of that, and 
I think it is the main piece of how we try to get at this 
problem. Now, to be more specific on the question that you 
asked, we had planned to hire about 11,400 firefighters this 
year. We have brought on about 90 percent of that already. 
There is a lot of competition out there for firefighters, and 
so we feel like we are ready. We can make up for that 10 
percent. We are going to do a number of things to make up for 
that, and we say that because we find ourselves in a situation 
in New Mexico and Arizona as we speak in terms of wildfires 
taking place there and the staffing level. Are we ready?
    New Mexico is into an activity level that normally happens 
about 4 to 6 weeks from now. It is that much earlier this year 
there, and the winds are compounding that. We have the ability 
to hire private contract firefighters. We have the ability to 
hire more of what we call ADs. That is administratively 
determined employees. We are also looking to having some 
additional rounds of hiring of seasonal and permanent 
firefighters. And so we going to continue to do all these 
things all the way up and through the year.
    So we are prepared at 90 percent. We know how to make up 
that 10 percent. And so we feel like we are a long ways toward 
where we wanted to be, and we will get there at 100 percent 
shortly, and we do have that ability internally. I mentioned 
11,400 firefighters, but we also have just a firefighting 
community, whether that is with other Department of Interior 
firefighters, State firefighters, local firefighters, and 
private firefighters. So we have a pretty large workforce of 
firefighters to call upon.
    Mr. Harder. Thank you, Chief. That is very helpful. Is 
11,400 the right number because I am concerned that that is 
only a 10-percent increase on the forestry personnel that we 
have seen historically. These wildfires aren't getting 10 
percent worse. They are getting 10 times worse. Are you 
confident that that is going to be enough to really keep our 
community safe?
    Mr. Moore. Well, let me tell you, I don't know if we will 
ever have enough, Congressman, unless we do something 
differently than what is taking place now. We have to address 
the vegetation situation out there on the forest because most 
of these fire-adaptive ecosystems, where you had ponderosa pine 
mixed conifer. I don't want to get too detailed, but I want to 
just explain that most of these ecosystems that we are talking 
about was fire dependent. And what has happened, though, like a 
ponderosa pine mixed conifer, per acre, they used to have about 
40 to 60 trees per acre. Now that same veg type has anywhere 
from 600 to 1,000 trees per acre.
    And so while we are talking about having enough 
firefighters to suppress the fires, we really need to be 
talking about how do we manage the vegetation out there so that 
when these fires do happen, it does its natural thing, and it 
is not really destructive like it is now. And so that is a very 
important piece. That is what the 10-year strategy is for, but 
you are right. We have to put the fires out that are taking 
place now.
    And just to give you some context of the Forest Service, 
even though we talk about 11,400 professional full-time 
firefighters, the Forest Service also has a number of other 
firefighters that do other duties, like timber, like 
recreation, special uses, those sorts of things, and we can 
call on them from anywhere across the country. Last year, we 
had 29,000 firefighters fighting fires primarily in the West, 
and it still wasn't enough. And so that is why we can have 
discussions about do we have enough, and that is a valid 
question to ask, but we have to be really aggressive and 
forthright in trying to reduce the conditions that are the root 
cause of these fires out there.
    Mr. Harder. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Okay. Thank you so much for your question and 
your answers. I don't know how many members want to ask a 
second question, but I think a couple do, so I am just going to 
start a second round. And I will start with one topic.
    I am interested in this question around the forest industry 
inventory. I didn't mean to say ``industry.'' Forest inventory 
and old-growth forests. The committee included a strong 
investment in forest inventory work in the fiscal year 2022 
bill, including $22 million in the program line and $216 
million in forest and rangeland research salaries and expenses. 
And I know last week on Earth Day, the administration made a 
joint announcement about a plan to better catalog old-growth 
forests. So I just want to hear you talk a little bit about how 
you are going to move forward on that, how you will work with 
the Department of Interior to implement the executive order. 
What funding will be utilized for the work? Do you kind of have 
a roadmap for how you are going about doing it? And just any 
other information you can share about the scope of the 
initiative and also the topic of how you will define mature and 
old growth forests in this context?
    Mr. Moore. Well, thank you, Madam Chair. So we are still 
reviewing the language and what it means for the Forest 
Service. Now, you know, we want to have a full understanding of 
the direction, and we want to ensure that our understanding is 
shared with the Department of Interior and vice versa. We 
believe that the executive order really outlines a science-
based approach. We will be working with DOI, again, here trying 
to define and conduct an inventory that can be easily shared 
with the public.
    So it is framed within the context of wildfire risk, so it 
is critically important that we can implement the landscape 
scale treatments that reduce the risk to these communities, but 
also reduce the risk to infrastructure and also the natural 
resources, but at the same time conserve our old and mature 
forests, which is really our important components of climate 
mitigation. And so we have to keep that. I think that executive 
order really addresses that.
    I think the wood products industry is also another 
important partner in trying to achieve this wildfire risk 
reduction goal, and the executive order speaks to the need for 
sustainable wood products industries but using a science-based 
approach to active forest management. So we are looking forward 
to working with all of the stakeholders moving forward on how 
we might implement that executive order to really get at the 
bottom line, which is to create healthy, resilient forests.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you, and we will be anxious to just 
continue to have this conversation as you move forward.
    I will turn to Mr. Joyce. Did you have any other questions 
you would like to ask?
    Mr. Joyce. I certainly do. Thank you. Chief Moore, I would 
like to discuss a newer issue that we have been tracking, beech 
leaf disease. Does it ring a bell?
    Mr. Moore. Yes. I am sorry.
    Mr. Joyce. The potential destructive impact it could have 
on trees in Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, and New England 
States. In Northeast Ohio, maple beech forests make up about 25 
percent of the woodland, so the disease could be extremely 
problematic for the forest canopy, the wildlife, and the 
ecosystem. I am proud that groups in my district are working 
diligently to learn more about the disease, how it spreads, and 
how to potentially breed resistant trees. But as we have 
learned through our experience with the emerald ash borer, 
controlling beech leaf disease will require comprehensive work 
at the local, State, and Federal levels. Can you discuss the 
work the Forest Service is currently carrying out related to 
the beech leaf disease, and how does the fiscal year 2023 
request support research and research partnerships on newer 
diseases like the beech leaf disease?
    Mr. Moore. So thank you, Congressman. So this beech leaf 
disease, you know, we call it BLB, and, you know, it is an 
emerging disease that is affecting the American beech. And it 
has reached across about 10 States in as many years. So it was 
first detected, of course, in Ohio, and it appears to be caused 
by what we call the phytopathogenic nematode, and it likely 
came from somewhere in Asia. We are currently conducting 
surveys across the range of this disease, as we understand it 
now, to try to track and understand how it is moving across the 
country. Like I said, 10 states in 10 years, that is pretty 
aggressive, in our opinion.
    So we are also working with State partners to help us to 
determine the scale of this. I mean, are we missing things? Has 
it occurred somewhere else? So our Forest Health Protection 
Program has provided a number of grants to support State 
surveys, including Ohio, New York, and many other States. And 
so we are working with the States to really do some aggressive 
surveying to really get the extent of this problem so that we 
can map it.
    Now, we have partnered also with the Cleveland Parks and 
Recreation in Ohio to develop and implement what we call a 
reporting app, which any citizen or a citizen scientist. You 
know, we have different things. But any citizen scientists can 
really log in and delineate where they see, you know, the beech 
tree and just see where we are seeing some of this. And so we 
think that that app is going to do a really good job of helping 
us to identify and really help us to map out the extent of 
this. But we are dialed in on this issue. We have our 
scientists working with other science partners across 
particularly the East trying to get a handle on this problem. 
But we feel like it is a pretty significant disease that is 
beginning to spread at what I would consider a rapid rate.
    Mr. Joyce. Well, thank you, and one last quick one. The 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act provided significant 
funding and new authorities to help mitigate catastrophic 
wildfires. Chief, can you provide an update on what the Forest 
Service is doing to expedite that funding and directives to 
help combat wildfires in the West?
    Mr. Moore. So, yes, and I don't know if we will run out of 
time, but I can certainly give it to you in writing. But in 
short, we have developed a strategy. We call it a 10-year 
strategy. It is a wildfire risk reduction strategy. We have 
also announced the 10 landscapes that we are going to begin the 
work in. We are going to focus on high-priority fires sheds, 
protecting communities and resources. We are actually funding 
about $130 million this year on projects that are ready to go. 
And so we looked at the 10 landscapes across 8 States, and we 
are beginning work this year on trying to reduce the fire 
hazard potential in these different fire sheds.
    So this is one of the most aggressive approaches that we 
have taken in a very long time. And so we have gone from 
developing a strategy, implementing a strategy in less than 7 
months, and that is almost a record for us in terms of how 
quickly we have moved. But we understand the urgency of this 
problem. We have been doing this with our partners, and I have 
got to give a lot of credit to our partners. We are all in this 
together. We seem to be working seamlessly across many 
different perspectives and spectrums. And so I am really 
excited about how the community of leaders and partners are 
coming together to address this significant issue.
    Mr. Joyce. While IIJA is a down payment on the work that 
needs to be done, how much funding does the Forest Service 
realistically need to make a sizable dent in the backlog of 
forest management work?
    Mr. Moore. Well, we figure, you know, there is another $20 
billion to really get at the heart of this problem. And while 
that is a lot of money, when you look at the amount of money we 
are spending on suppression, and you look at the amount of 
money that we are spending on communities that have been 
destroyed, lives that have been turned upside down, it is 
really not a sufficient amount compared to the damage of not 
doing that and what it is causing to the American people.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you. I yield back, Madam Chair. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you, Mr. Joyce. Mr. Kilmer, do you have 
another question you would like to discuss?
    Mr. Kilmer. I do. Thanks, Madam Chair. In the first round, 
I asked about harvest levels in the near term. I think there is 
an understanding that probably the most significant impact in 
terms of long term is the forest plan. So I wanted to ask about 
forest plan updates. The Northwest Forest Plan was, as you 
know, Chief, created at a time of crisis. It wasn't intended to 
be extended in perpetuity. It was meant to be revised over 
time. I think there is a sense that we have learned more over 
time about what works for species, and what works for forest 
health, and what is manageable from the standpoint of both 
economic and environmental sustainability.
    When I got to Congress, I asked about the plan to update 
the Northwest Forest Plan. I was told at that time that there 
would be an update in the next 5 years. That was 2013. In the 
fiscal year 2022 bill that the President recently signed, the 
committee requested the Service to create a report on the 
current list of forest management plans requiring revision or 
completion, a proposed course of action, and a timeline for 
compliance. I guess my question is, when can we expect to 
receive save that report? And if you have any information on 
the plan to update the Northwest Forest Plan, I would sure love 
to hear that, or I am happy to wait for the report back from 
the language that we put in requesting an update.
    Mr. Moore. So the fiscal year 2023 budget does allow us to 
really address that issue, Congressman. Now, I will tell you, 
when I was in California, I worked with my counterpart, Glenn 
Casamassa, there, and we were looking at really being really 
aggressive to update the Northwest Forest Plan Area. And so we 
had begun conversations with the environmental community, 
industry, and a lot of other partners about, you know, looking 
at just the scientific literature that is out in those areas. 
But as you know probably better than me, support for forest 
plan revision, it ebbs and flows. And so whether we are able to 
do that or not depends really on how that support ebbs and 
flows in terms of getting that work done. But we are pulling 
together a report of all the plans that are currently outdated. 
There are a significant number of them.
    We also are looking at finalizing our plan for how we would 
really go about that, and I think that once we do that, 
Congressman, we would love to have a conversation with Congress 
about what we see, what we think it will take, and get some 
support and perspectives from you and others as we look at 
trying to finalize that with the administration.
    Mr. Kilmer. I appreciate that, and, again, would just once 
again extend an invitation to you. We would love to have you 
come out to our neck of the woods. I think folks in the Olympic 
would love to talk to you about some of these short-term issues 
and some of the long-term challenges and how we might get 
through them together, so would happily host you. Thank you, 
Madam Chair.
    Mr. Moore. I would love to visit.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much. Mr. Cartwright do you 
have another question you would like to ask?
    Mr. Cartwright. I do. Thank you, Chair Pingree. Chief 
Moore, I am happy to see you have specifically added language 
concerning providing technical and financial assistance for 
invasive plants into this State and private forest budgeting 
line in this year's request. You and I both know that invasive 
plant species can have devastating impacts. The National 
Recreation Area in my district, which is the Delaware Water Gap 
National Recreation Area, is constantly dealing with the 
decline in native plants and the problem of invasive species. 
In fact, plants like the Japanese knotweed, very difficult to 
eradicate, and they are all over the place. Last year, I 
introduced the bipartisan Native Plant Species Pilot Program 
Act, and it combats invasive species by establishing a pilot 
program to promote and increase the use of native plants within 
the National Park Service. Would a similar or analogous program 
be beneficial to the Forest Service?
    Mr. Moore. So, Congressman, there is no question that non-
native invasive species are really confounding climate 
adaptation plans in forest management, and conservation, in 
general. You know, for forests to be resilient to climate 
change and invasive species, native tree diversity and vigor 
must be maintained and enhanced to the greatest extent 
possible. Now, our native plant material policy, which was 
developed back in 2008, promotes the use of genetically--now 
let me get that right--genetically-appropriate, climate-
resilient native plant materials for use in revegetation, 
restoration, and rehabilitation of native ecosystems. And so 
when you look at the amount of work that we need to do in terms 
of revegetating or reforesting these landscapes where we need 
to really go in and do some work, that is going to be a really 
critical piece of how we do that.
    Now, I will just be up front with you. I was once asked by 
scientists and, you know, he asked me he said so, you know, the 
fact that you don't want to introduce non-native species into 
an area doesn't mean that all non-natives are bad. Well, you 
know, that is a matter of perspective, right? I think the point 
that we are trying to make, though, is that, in many cases, a 
lot of non-native invasive species is really creating a problem 
for us from a climate perspective, from a forest management 
perspective, and really from a perspective of trying to look at 
conservation.
    And so we are happy to review your legislation that you are 
looking at. We are happy to work with your staff to provide 
some comments and applicability to Forest Service lands. But I 
do think it is a vital and critical thing that we need to pay 
attention to, and, again, we would be happy to look at your 
legislation, sir.
    Mr. Kilmer. I appreciate your attention to that and your 
offer to work with us on it, Chief Moore. Thanks very much, and 
thanks for your presence here today. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you, Mr. Cartwright. Mr. Harder, would 
you like to ask another question?
    Mr. Harder. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Chair Pingree, 
and thank you again, Chief, for being here. I wanted to ask 
about the hazardous fuel management money that was allocated in 
the infrastructure bill. I believe there was about $2\1/2\ 
billion that was allocated then. We are looking for another 
$650 in this budget request to consider. When you look at the 
$2.5 billion that was allocated last year, how do you think 
about the risk reduction that has happened because of that? How 
do you explain the value of where we would be if that money 
hadn't actually gone out, and where do you think the remaining 
$650 million that we are looking for in this budget request 
will get us?
    Mr. Moore. Yeah. Congressman Harder, let's look at your 
State as an example, and I think it is pretty typical of many 
other States. Our approach has really been trying to take the 
dollars that we have and give everyone a little bit to try and 
get some work done in their areas. The problem with that, and 
it has happened over time. It didn't happen right away, but the 
problem with that is that the scale of these fires has far 
exceeded our current method for trying to provide restoration 
and resilience on these landscapes. And let me stick with 
California for a minute, but we have many other examples. If I 
look at the Caldor fire that happened last year in California, 
that fire started down on the Eldorado National Forest, and 
that fire started in an area where we had a lot of small 
restoration-type projects around that area. We call those 
random acts of restoration, but we had a lot of support for the 
funding.
    What happened when the Caldor fire started, it burned right 
through that type of a treatment, and until they got to Lake 
Tahoe Basin, it did not slow down. It slowed down there for a 
number of reasons. One of the biggest reasons is that we had 
restoration treatment over time at scale. And that is further 
verified by looking at the fire boundary and how consistent it 
was with that landscape level of treatment, the large-scale 
treatments.
    And so I think a part of solution going forward is not 
necessarily doing a lot of those small projects again, but how 
do we bring the community of people together to really get at 
making the scale of work on the ground match the scale of fires 
that we are seeing. And that is why we need a lot of other 
entities, like the industry as an example, wood innovation, 
which Madam Chairwoman talked about. There are a number of 
things that need to take place, and I think we are having an 
opportunity through the Collaborative to bring in the 
environmental community, industry, and everything in between to 
talk about how do we move forward at that landscape scale so 
that we get the social license to do what we think needs to 
happen on the ground to stop----
    Mr. Harder. Thank you, Chief. That is helpful. Just so I 
understand, how much of the $2\1/2\ billion that was allocated 
last year has been spent, and are we on track to hit the Forest 
Service goals in terms of the number of acres on which the 
hazardous fuels have been reduced?
    Mr. Moore. Yeah, and I probably didn't do a good job. So 
last year, our goal was to treat about 3.2 million acres with 
that money. Because of the fire situation and other things, we 
treated about 2.9 million acres, but those 2.9 million acres or 
the 3.2 million acres is what I am talking about. They are 
small, random areas of how we treat it. The difference this 
year, we are looking at the additional increases to increase 
those small plots where we were working to large landscape-type 
treatments because we know that that is what is going to stop 
how that fire behaves as it moves across the landscape. And so 
the answer is we got 2.9 million of the 3.2 we planned to. We 
also are looking at about 3.8 million acres in addition to what 
we are doing based on the infrastructure dollars. We will 
implement that differently than what we have been doing in the 
past.
    Mr. Harder. I guess my only question, and I know I am 
running out of time, is, you know, if we were able to hit 2.9 
million acres with $2\1/2\ billion, is an additional $650 
million enough to get us where we need to be, because that is 
what this budget request is, and it gives me a little bit of 
pause because it seems like we might need even more support in 
order to make sure that we are protecting as many acres as are 
needed. Is that right?
    Mr. Moore. Yeah, that is right, and not all acres are the 
same. There are some acres we can treat fairly reasonable. 
There are some areas that is going to be really expensive to 
treat. The closer you get into communities, the more expensive 
it is to treat those areas. And so, you know, I feel pretty 
optimistic about it. I am happy to have a further conversation 
with you and others on these specific plans for how we are 
planning to approach the additional dollars and the work that 
we are doing. We will also look at unit costs, you know, per-
acre costs to put these treatments on the ground. And so we are 
happy to share that with you, and sit down with you, and answer 
any detailed questions you might have, Congressman.
    Mr. Harder. Thank you so much, Chief. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much for your questions. Well, 
we really appreciate, Chief Moore and Ms. Weeks, that you spent 
the time with us today, and we had a chance to have this 
conversation with you. And I know we will continue to have many 
more as we work through the budget process. So I appreciate 
your time, your testimony.
    And if there are no other questions, this hearing is now 
adjourned.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Thanks. Thanks, everybody.
    [Answers to submitted questions follow:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    

                                          Thursday, April 28, 2022.

                       DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

                               WITNESSES

HON. DEB HAALAND, SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
DENISE FLANAGAN, DIRECTOR OF BUDGET, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
    Ms. Pingree. So, good morning. This hearing will now to 
come to order.
    As this hearing is fully virtual, we must address a few 
housekeeping matters.
    For today's meeting, the chair, or staff designated by the 
chair, may mute the participants' microphones when they are not 
under recognition for the purposes of eliminating inadvertent 
background noise. Members are responsible for muting and 
unmuting themselves.
    If I notice that you have not unmuted yourself, I will ask 
you if you would like the staff to unmute you. If you indicate 
approval by nodding, staff will unmute your microphone.
    I remind all members and witnesses that the 5-minute clock 
still applies. If there is a technology issue, we will move to 
the next member until the issue is resolved, and you will 
retain the balance of your time.
    You will notice a clock on your screen that will show how 
much time is remaining. At 1 minute remaining, the clock will 
turn to yellow. At 30 seconds remaining, I will gently tap the 
gavel to remind members that their time is almost expired. When 
your time has expired, the clock will turn red, and I will 
begin to recognize the next member.
    In terms of the speaking order, we will follow the order 
set forth in the House rules, beginning with the chair and 
ranking member. Then members present at the time the hearing is 
called to order will be recognized in order of seniority and, 
finally, members not present at the time the hearing is called 
to order.
    Finally, House rules require me to remind you that we have 
set up an email address to which members can send anything they 
wish to submit in writing at any of our hearings or markups. 
That email address has been provided in advance to your staff.
    Okay. Now we can officially start.
    So, good morning, Secretary Haaland. We are so excited to 
have you with us today, and thank you being here to discuss the 
fiscal year 2023 budget request for Department of the Interior. 
Joining the Secretary today is Denise Flanagan, the Director of 
the Budget.
    Our focus for today's hearing is the President's $16.1 
billion request for the Department of the Interior, an increase 
of $1.9 billion, 12 percent, over the fiscal year 2022 enacted 
level. Notable increases include advancing science and 
conservation efforts, renewable energy, remediating and 
reclaiming orphan oil and gas wells and abandoned mine lands, 
upholding our treaty and trust obligations, as well as 
bolstering wildland fire management. We are very much looking 
forward to a robust discussion on these topics.
    I am proud that our fiscal year 2022 bill continued to 
build upon the increases this subcommittee has provided since 
taking over the majority in fiscal year 2021 to address the 
needs of Native Americans and Alaska Natives, preserve the 
biodiversity and ecosystem services, and ensure the protection 
or our air, water, and natural and cultural resources for 
present and future generations.
    To illustrate that point, since the last Obama budget, the 
subcommittee has provided a 31 percent increase for the U.S. 
Geological Survey. For fiscal year 2023, I look forward to 
expanding upon that work with significant and impactful funding 
that, in tandem with the resources provided in the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, will enable us to focus 
on improving our Nation's economic prosperity while 
concurrently addressing the threats of climate change in our 
interconnected world.
    Secretary Haaland, President Biden has again laid out an 
ambitious agenda for the fiscal year 2023. I know you have a 
big challenge ahead for the Department to rebuild staff 
capacity and morale, reestablish trust in the Department and 
its science, and address a myriad of programmatic issues such 
as Indian education, wild horses and burros, and clean energy 
development.
    I hope our discussion today will allow us the opportunity 
to better understand your priorities, both short term and long 
term, as well as discuss how the subcommittee can advance the 
important work of the Department of the Interior and achieve 
our mutual goals and objectives.
    I would now like to yield to our ranking member, Mr. Joyce, 
for his opening remarks.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    It is my honor to join you in welcoming back Secretary Deb 
Haaland and her Director of Budget, Ms. Denise Flanagan.
    I also want to thank you, Madam Secretary, for coming to 
Cleveland, Ohio, and visiting northeastern Ohio last month. I 
appreciated talking with some of our constituents about our 
importance in urban reforestation and the habitat restoration 
in underserved communities in the Cleveland area and the 
significant role spending time outside played in our lives as 
children.
    As we learned from these constituents, and as I mentioned 
in the hearing last year, conserving our Nation's natural 
resources, preserving our diverse cultural heritage, and 
upholding our trust responsibilities are goals we all share. 
And while we may disagree on many of the details, we remain 
united in pursuit of those goals.
    To that end, the Department's fiscal year 2023 budget 
proposal before this subcommittee is over $16 billion, a 14 
percent increase over fiscal year 2022. This proposed increase 
comes on the heels of a nearly 6 percent increase for fiscal 
year 2022 and a $20 billion supplemental appropriation in the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.
    Some are calling these investments a ``once in a lifetime 
opportunity.'' I remain deeply concerned that the deficit 
spending is getting worse, not better. It is imperative that 
the Federal Government finds a way to live within its means so 
that we do not saddle future generations with even more 
economic burden than what already awaits them.
    Inflation is at a 40-year high, due in part to excessive 
Government spending. Interest rates are on the verge of 
climbing again, which would impact everything from borrowing 
for a new home to the cost of servicing this Nation's $30 
trillion national debt. Until the President's fiscal year 2023 
budget proposal is coupled with credible offsets and bipartisan 
plans for long-term deficit reduction, I believe the proposal 
before us today for the Department of the Interior is excessive 
and unrealistic.
    In addition to the spending, what concerns me most is that 
the proposal continues America's fall from energy independence 
under this administration. Last year, the administration 
announced a freeze on new Federal leases and canceled pipelines 
that would have fed U.S. refineries and yet lifted sanctions to 
allow Russia to profit from its own oil. This year, this 
administration is drawing down the Strategic Petroleum Reserve 
to dangerously low levels, is vilifying domestic producers for 
delayed use of existing leases that are slowed by environmental 
reviews and litigation, and begging Saudi Arabia and Venezuela 
to sell us more oil, and has finally come around to the 
realization that buying Russian oil isn't sound policy.
    The Department's fiscal year 2023 budget makes no mention 
of meeting its mandate for a 5-year offshore leasing plan, 
which is set to expire on June 30 and is a prerequisite for any 
new offshore oil and gas lease sales. Further, the budget makes 
no mention of resuming mandated quarterly onshore lease sales.
    Instead, the budget proposes new and increased fees to 
further disincentivize production. Just days ago, when the 
administration finally scheduled a handful of onshore lease 
sales, the Department highlighted that these sales constituted 
an 80 percent reduction in the onshore acreage nominated for 
leasing and increase in royalty rates.
    Let me be clear. We share the same goal of clean, 
affordable, reliable energy, but we disagree on the speed and 
the approach for achieving it.
    The U.S. and most of the world are dependent upon fossil 
energy for the foreseeable future, whether this administration 
likes it or not. As has become painfully apparent, shutting off 
our own supplies doesn't speed our transition to renewable 
energy. It only makes us more dependent on others.
    Top-down policies that force hardships on Americans never 
works when the costs outweigh the benefits on their everyday 
lives. The price of a gallon of gasoline is more than $4, and 
Americans are feeling the pain not only at the pump, but 
throughout the supply chain. A stunning recent poll by Consumer 
Energy Alliance found that a majority of Americans of every 
age, gender, race, ethnic, geographic, and political 
demographic support immediate domestic energy production over 
increased imports.
    Madam Secretary, I once again urge you not to lock out 
America for the domestic energy and minerals it needs for a 
smooth transition to a cleaner energy future and work with us 
to help our constituents mitigate climate risk in their 
everyday lives while we pursue realistic free market and 
innovative solutions to climate change and protect the 
interests of the American people, our communities, and our 
country's economic well-being.
    Thank you again for being here today, Madam Secretary. I 
look forward to our discussion.
    And thank you as always, Chair Pingree, for yielding time. 
I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much, Mr. Joyce.
    And Secretary Haaland, we are looking forward to hearing 
from you. Please go ahead.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much, Madam Chair, Ranking 
Member Joyce, members of the subcommittee. It is an honor and 
privilege for me to be here on the ancestral homelands of the 
Anacostan and Piscataway people to speak with you today on 
behalf of the President's 2023 budget for the Department of the 
Interior.
    Thank you for your support of Interior's programs in the 
2022 omnibus appropriation. I appreciate your efforts to build 
capacity within the Department and to fully fund our fixed 
costs, which are must-pay bills.
    I have had the honor of being the Secretary of the Interior 
for over a year now, and I recognize the importance of this 
moment for the future of the Department and for our country.
    Through my travels and while working here in D.C., I have 
seen firsthand how every day in every corner of the country our 
employees go to work with a focus on results. They work with 
their local communities, States, tribal nations, and other 
partners to conserve and steward our Nation's natural resources 
and cultural heritage for the benefit of everyone. Interior's 
programs are helping generate jobs, grow the economy, and build 
resilience to the challenges of our changing climate.
    I am grateful to have visited many of you in your home 
districts and meet the great people you represent. The work we 
do would not be possible without your leadership and support, 
and I look forward to our continued partnership.
    Working together, we have the ability to make tangible 
differences in the lives of families across the country. With 
your support, we have already made great progress this year.
    We took steps to accelerate the development of renewable 
energy on public lands and waters. We launched the first 
Federal Boarding School Initiative to address the 
intergenerational impact of Indian boarding schools, deployed 
resources to build resilience to address the drought crisis, 
pursued justice for missing and murdered indigenous people and 
worked to keep tribal communities safe, and helped communities 
prepare against the threat of wildland fire by strengthening 
our Federal firefighting workforce and the resilience of our 
lands.
    We also began implementing the bipartisan infrastructure 
law, once in a generation investments that will help 
communities tackle the climate crisis while creating jobs, 
advancing environmental justice, and boosting local economies. 
This funding is already at work at Interior, kickstarting 
ongoing efforts to address intensifying drought, wildfires, 
flooding, and legacy pollution.
    The President's 2023 budget request complements this with a 
request of $18.1 billion for the Interior Department. Of this, 
$16.6 billion is within the jurisdiction of this subcommittee. 
Our total request is a 12 percent increase from the 2022 
enacted appropriation.
    Specifically, the President's budget invests in our country 
with an unprecedented total of $4.5 billion for Indian Affairs 
programs focused on tribal sovereignty and stronger tribal 
communities.
    Up to $1.5 billion for wildland fire management to increase 
firefighting capacity, continue the transformation to a more 
permanent and professional wildland fire workforce, and ensure 
Federal firefighters are paid at least $15 an hour.
    A total of $4.9 billion across Interior to strengthen 
natural resource management and improve the resilience of 
tribal and Interior-managed lands.
    $125 million to advance the President's ambitious clean 
energy goals by increasing offshore wind energy power 
generation and permitting of onshore renewable energy 
technologies.
    More than $1.4 billion for research and development 
programs across the Department to ensure science continues to 
underpin Interior's core mission activities, and implementation 
of our Department-wide diversity, equity, inclusion, and 
accessibility initiative to proactively advance equity, civil 
rights, racial justice, and equal opportunity.
    I have great ambitions for the Department of the Interior 
and what we can accomplish on behalf of the American people. 
Working together, we can do more to create good-paying union 
jobs, increase the resilience of our lands, expand our ability 
to fight wildland fires, and mitigate drought, strengthen 
Tribal Nations, and improve the lives of Americans everywhere. 
I look forward to continuing our strong partnership.
    In conclusion, we are doing our part to advance priorities 
that build a better America. Thank you again for having me, and 
I am happy to answer any questions you may have.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Madam Secretary. We are 
so pleased to have you with us this morning, and I know we are 
going to have a lively discussion with a lot of questions 
coming from the committee.
    I wanted to start with a very specific issue that actually 
relates to the wonderful visit we had with you in the State of 
Maine, and that is regarding the Indian Boarding School 
Initiative.
    In fiscal year 2022, Congress provided $7 million for the 
Indian Boarding School Initiative, and I know this initiative 
is a personal priority for you. Last June, you and I had the 
wonderful experience, when you visited Acadia National Park, of 
joining with the Wabanaki and other tribal leaders in Maine to 
welcome the sun, which I think was around 4:00 in the morning--
a very early start to our day--and take part in a talking 
circle with the tribal leaders. They shared their experiences 
with the devastating intergenerational trauma that has been 
caused by these Indian boarding schools.
    Immediately after that visit, you signed a secretarial 
order requiring the Department to create a plan for the Indian 
Boarding School Initiative. I appreciate that you have done 
this. I want to commend you for that. And I just want to hear a 
little more about the progress that has been made by the 
Department.
    So can you talk about that to us, about the Department's 
work on this initiative that is so important? How are the funds 
we provided being used to support the initiative? I understand 
a report is being prepared, and I am curious to know when that 
will be finalized. So would love to hear from you on that.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Chair Pingree.
    And yes, thank you. The trip to your State was really a 
wonderful experience for me, and I appreciated your hosting us. 
So thank you very much.
    And I appreciate your interest and the committee's interest 
in this issue. Some of you may have read my op-ed. I talked 
about my grandparents being taken away from their families when 
they were both 8 years old and sent to boarding school for 5 
years, away from their mothers, away from their community. So 
it is important for me to make sure that people know we care 
about this issue, and that we are doing something about it, 
giving them a chance to heal from this intergenerational 
trauma.
    We are working on the Boarding School Initiative. It should 
be out very soon. We are incredibly grateful for the $7 million 
in the 2022 funding. Thank you very much for that. That will 
help us to continue to work on this issue.
    Part of it is making sure that we are really connecting 
with tribes. Tribal consultation has been very important in 
this to make sure we are doing what various tribes would like 
us to do. Tribes have different customs, different traditions. 
Some may want to repatriate or bring back their children who 
have been buried away from their homeland. Others may not want 
to.
    So it will depend on what each individual tribe wants to 
do, but I think the initial start in getting a full listing of 
exactly what Federal boarding schools were in this country, 
where burial sites are, what tribes were relegated to these 
various boarding schools, those are the important facts that we 
are working on now and will get out soon. And of course, we 
will update you when we have some news about the rollout of the 
first report.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. Thanks so much for that.
    I will now turn over to Ranking Member Joyce to see if he 
has any questions.
    Mr. Joyce. Just a few. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    As you know, Secretary Haaland, the President on day one 
issued an executive order temporarily banning new oil and gas 
leasing on the Federal estate and directed the Department to 
conduct a thorough review. The Department delivered its report 
last November. It has been almost 18 months since a lease sale 
has been signed on the Federal estate.
    On April 18, the White House press secretary reiterated 
that the administration's policy is to ban additional oil and 
gas leasing on Federal lands. As you also know, the law 
requires quarterly lease sales. Can you please clarify the 
administration's position? And if the law requires the 
administration to conduct oil and gas leasing, how can it be 
the administration's policy to ban such leasing?
    Secretary Haaland. Ranking Member Joyce, thank you so much 
for the question.
    And as you may know, the Department was required by Federal 
court injunction, which the Department is appealing, to move 
forward with onshore oil and gas leases. But knowing that we 
had to move forward, we made sure that the lease sales 
reflected the highest and best use of public lands.
    I said many times that our public lands belong to every 
single American, and so we felt the need to include significant 
reforms that would benefit taxpayers. We want to make sure that 
we are consulting with tribes, and taking climate change into 
account because this is really the challenge of our time.
    I will continue to implement the oil and gas program in a 
way that is consistent with the law and with my authority as 
Secretary. I am not able to make specific announcements right 
now, but please know that there are about 9,000 permits 
currently available to the oil companies that have not been 
drilled, as well as 11 million acres of land that has been 
leased.
    So I feel that the industry is set, and we are continuing 
to work in the best way possible.
    Mr. Joyce. I hear that a lot. Unfortunately, if by 
regulation and design they can't exercise those leases and 
execute on those leases, the fact we have 9,000 leases doesn't 
make a lot of difference to our supply. But if this 
Department's recent announcement for limited onshore leasing is 
driven by a court order, then is it fair to say that the 
administration would still have a ban on new leasing if it 
weren't for the courts? And if so, then why does the ban 
continue even after the Department delivered its report, 
pursuant to the executive order?
    Secretary Haaland. With all due respect, Ranking Member 
Joyce, there is no ban on leasing right now. And the 9,000 
permits, those have already been approved, and the industry is 
free to use those permits in the way they see fit. They just 
haven't acted on those.
    Permitting actually continues on the land that has already 
been leased, and so, as I mentioned, I feel the industry is 
set. And in fact, production is essentially higher than it has 
been in a couple decades. So on the Federal lands, we are doing 
what we need to do, and we are following the law and making 
sure that we are moving those issues forward.
    Mr. Joyce. I beg to differ with you there, Madam Secretary, 
but I will yield back, Madam Chair, because I know other 
members of this fine committee all wanted to ask questions as 
well.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Mr. Joyce.
    Chair McCollum, do you have questions this morning?
    Ms. McCollum. Yes, I do. And first, to my fellow committee 
members, I apologize for the shaky connection we had yesterday.
    Secretary Haaland, we are so happy to have you back, and I 
am proud, very proud of the increases that this subcommittee 
provided under the leadership of Chair Pingree for 2022. Using 
the 2023 budget request as a base, I hope we can build on that 
success to deliver more resources to implement the Department's 
broad mission, including the conservation of our public lands 
and ecosystem, protecting biodiversity, endangered species, and 
addressing climate change with scientific research.
    But I am going to focus on a part of the Interior's budget 
that funds our trust and treaty obligations to tribal nations, 
the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Bureau of Indian 
Education. First, I want to applaud you and President Biden for 
listening to tribal leaders who have advocated for embracing 
and expanding the Tiwahe Initiative. Fiscal year 2023 budget 
request will not only sustain funding for existing Tiwahe 
sites, including the Red Lake Nation in Minnesota, but allow 
for additional tribal nations to participate in this holistic, 
culturally affirming approach to family and community.
    The President's budget also includes significant increases 
for the Bureau of Indian Education construction. This 
committee, as you know, works in a very strong bipartisan--I 
say nonpartisan--fashion, and we have prioritized children 
because we believe no child should attend a school with exposed 
wires, cracked walls, insufficient heat or air conditioning, 
many of the problems that we see in BIE schools.
    So the fiscal year 2022 funding that this subcommittee 
provided BIE replacement projects will fund the completion of 
three schools. The 2023 proposal would fund an additional six, 
but we know that there is still not enough funding to fill out 
the priority list.
    Could you let us know how the Department is looking at 
issuing new priority replacement school lists to inform tribal 
leaders and this subcommittee which schools are next in line? 
And I want to make clear, I wished every single school was next 
in line, but I know you are faced with hard choices.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Congresswoman, and 
I appreciate you caring so much about Indian Country in this 
way.
    Yes, we wish we could replace every single school that 
needs to be replaced as well. But for the time being, there 
will be six replacement school projects to be started in 2023--
the Cheyenne-Eagle Butte School in South Dakota, the Cottonwood 
Day School in Arizona, the Little Wound Day School in South 
Dakota, Standing Rock Community School in New Mexico, Pierre 
Indian Learning Center in South Dakota, and Santa Rosa Day 
School in Arizona.
    There are many more. It will take us a couple decades at 
this funding level to get to the schools that need to be 
replaced as a priority. We will continue to work on that as we 
can but certainly recognize the need in Indian Country for 
children to attend schools that are safe and a place where they 
can truly learn.
    Ms. McCollum. Serving on the authorization committee 
currently this year, as well as on the Appropriations Committee 
that oversees this, I hesitate to speak for Mr. Simpson, but we 
have traveled in Indian Country ourselves. So we have seen the 
condition of the schools and the roads. And whatever authority 
you need in order to hold contractors accountable and have 
better contract outcome is something that I know I would look 
forward to working with you on.
    Mr. Calvert, when he was chair, we were just shocked at the 
condition at which some of the schools actually were built at, 
with not having the right kind of oversight on construction 
done by the Bureau. So if you need more authority with that or 
something different in the contracts, please let us know so we 
can be of help.
    Thank you.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much. Mr. Simpson, do you have 
questions this morning?
    Mr. Simpson. Yes, thank you.
    I agree with what Representative McCollum just said about 
the schools and the need to address those, and we can't wait 
two decades. That is somebody is born and they become an adult 
before we can improve their school, that is just too long. We 
have got to do something about this.
    But let me, first of all, Secretary, thank you for your 
participation with CEQ and with other agencies in addressing a 
perplexing problem in the Pacific Northwest dealing with salmon 
and salmon recovery of the major species up there and the 
importance that that is to the tribes and, actually, to all of 
the Pacific Northwest. So I appreciate your participation in 
that collaboration that you are working on.
    Let me ask a couple of questions first. With the 6 percent 
increase that we had last year and the 12 percent proposed this 
year, we are still facing a real challenge, and that is with 
finding employees. Everywhere I go, not just in Idaho, but 
across the country, BLM, other agencies--and this is not just 
an Interior problem. I also find it in the Department of 
Agriculture, with ARS or Forest Service or others. We are 
having trouble getting our job done because we can't get the 
employees or we are so behind on employees. What is the problem 
there? Are we having problems hiring people to do the jobs and 
stuff?
    As an example, when we authorized the Great American 
Outdoors Act, there is an awful lot of programs in there that 
we wanted to see started and stuff, but they are telling me 
that the delays in getting the projects approved and stuff are 
because we don't have the employees to approve those projects 
and stuff. What is the problem there?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much for the question, 
Congressman Simpson. And thank you for recognizing this issue.
    As I am traveling across the country, everywhere I go, I 
make it a point to meet personally with DOI employees. We have 
some of the best employees, I think, in the Federal Government, 
who are very dedicated, dedicated to our mission. And I know it 
is a priority for me, working to build up our workforce 
capacity across the Department.
    We have a special emphasis right now in certain areas. One 
is wildland fire, and you probably have seen the wildland fires 
across the Southwest right now, namely in my State of New 
Mexico. So the wildfire preparedness in the BLM is something 
that we are paying very close attention to and working to 
fulfill.
    Being able to pay firefighters a little bit more money is 
helping us to recruit some folks there, and also with the land 
management bureaus, the national parks, the national wildlife 
refuges, you probably have seen there has been up to a 60 
percent increase in visitation in some of these areas across 
the country, namely since COVID happened. People just find the 
need to get outdoors more than they have in the past.
    So those are all priorities for us. We are going to focus 
on positions needed to break logjams in human resources and 
contracting. We are expanding access to qualified candidate 
lists across the bureaus, and in some cases, we are working 
with OPM to address competitive hiring markets.
    So we will continue to pay attention to this. I appreciate 
your interest in it. We are always happy to make sure that we 
give you updates. Don't hesitate to reach out to us, and if we 
have anything else to add, we will absolutely keep you 
informed.
    Mr. Simpson. Well, I appreciate that. But basically, we can 
put all the money into a program in the world. If we don't have 
the personnel to carry out the projects and so forth that is 
necessary, it doesn't really do any good. So those personnel 
and making sure that we have sufficient personnel in the right 
areas is something that is critical for us.
    And along those same lines, you talked about paying 
firefighters. I went out to the Fort Hall Indian Reservation, 
where we did a community-financed project to help them rebuild 
their fire station out there that needed to get done, and what 
I found out from the policemen and the firemen out there, one 
of their biggest challenges is they are the training ground for 
local community fire stations in Blackfoot, Pocatello, Idaho 
Falls.
    They train them in Fort Hall. As soon as they get trained, 
they get hired at a higher pay rate in Blackfoot or in 
Pocatello and leave. So how do we keep those?
    And we will talk about this later because my time is 
running out, but we have got to find a way to keep these people 
on the reservation, be able to pay them enough so that they can 
stay with the organizations that have trained them. But we will 
talk about that later.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you, Mr. Simpson. That is certainly an 
issue I have heard about. So I hope we will get a chance to 
discuss that.
    Next, Mr. Kilmer, do you have questions this morning?
    Mr. Kilmer. I do. Thanks, Madam Chair.
    And thanks, Madam Secretary, for being with us and for your 
leadership and your commitment to ensuring the Federal 
Government fulfills its unmet treaty and trust responsibilities 
to Native American communities.
    I am really grateful for your visit out to my neck of the 
woods last summer to tour the Quinault Indian Nation's Taholah 
Village Relocation Project, which is an effort to move that 
village to higher ground in response to increasing threats from 
climate change and rising sea levels and erosion and flooding 
and tsunami risk. Thank you for coming to see these challenges 
firsthand and meeting with tribal leaders from across the 
region I represent.
    And as you will recall, it is not just the Quinault that 
face urgent and existential threats exacerbated by climate 
change, as you heard during your visit. The Quileute Tribal 
School in La Push is in the crosshairs of a rising ocean. The 
Hoh Indian Tribe is located in a tsunami flood zone, and the 
only developed road in and out of the reservation is regularly 
impassable as a result of heavy storms.
    The Makah Indian Tribe urgently needs to relocate their 
health center, which is not only in a tsunami zone, but also a 
cell and Internet service shadow that impedes emergency 
communication. So climate change and coastal challenges are 
real threats, and they also threaten significant cultural 
landmarks and heritage.
    Just earlier this week, I spoke with several tribal 
historic preservation officers who perform critical work 
protecting important cultural sites. They told me that 
increasing erosion caused by rising oceans have exposed 
ancestral remains and resting places. Unfortunately, they don't 
have the resources they need to monitor and mitigate that 
erosion risk.
    So I share these details in part because I want to just 
emphasize the sheer need and the importance of urgent and bold 
action, and I know that you share that sense of urgency. And it 
is why I appreciate your commitment to addressing climate 
challenges and building resilient communities during your first 
year as Secretary, and in this year's budget proposal, I am 
glad you specifically highlighted the $62 million for the 
Tribal Climate Resilience Program in this year's budget 
request, which is almost double the 2022 enacted level. I am 
also pleased that this committee passed nearly $3.6 million in 
community project funding to help with the relocation efforts 
of three tribes in my neck of the woods that are trying to move 
to higher ground.
    But I think we know that addressing these challenges fully 
will require significant investment above and beyond what we 
have done so far. As NCAI president and Quinault Vice President 
Fawn Sharp testified to our committee earlier this month, the 
cost of the Quinault relocation project alone is $180 million. 
So we are talking about literally relocating entire 
communities. That is homes and schools and health clinics and 
justice centers and community centers and more.
    So, one, I just want to hear your thoughts on how your 
agency and the Biden administration can work with Congress to 
develop and execute a more comprehensive and coordinated plan 
to help tribes that are facing imminent displacement from their 
ancestral homelands and their territory that they have occupied 
since immemorial due to climate change and coastal erosion. And 
secondly, what do you need from us? What does the 
administration need from this subcommittee so that we can be 
good partners to you in this effort?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Congressman, and 
thank you for your dedication to Indian Country not only in 
your district, but across the country. It is very much 
appreciated, given the mission of the Department of the 
Interior.
    Yes, everything you said I completely agree with, 
especially the part about me coming to your district. Thank you 
for being such a wonderful host and I thoroughly enjoyed the 
opportunity to be with the chair and the vice chair.
    You know, funding is one thing. Yes, it is an expensive 
undertaking. There are tribes in Alaska as well that are 
falling victim to coastal erosion. A lot of those communities 
are on permafrost that is melting currently.
    And all the funding in the world would really help these 
tribes when they need to relocate, but I think one of the most 
important things that you spoke about and that we are committed 
to is tribal consultation. These tribes, that is their 
ancestral homeland. They don't know where to live anywhere 
else.
    Often, tribes have been relocated at the behest of the 
Federal Government. But for certain tribes who have been in the 
same place since time immemorial, it is very difficult--it is 
emotional, and it is spiritual--it is a shock to their 
spiritual well-being when they have to move from a land that 
means a tremendous amount to them.
    So absolutely putting tribal consultation as a priority is 
something that we feel very committed to. How does the tribe 
want to move? How do they want to plan, and where do they want 
to plan? These are all things that we have to take into 
consideration, and we do that.
    Later this summer, BIA will announce bipartisan 
infrastructural allocations for community relocation 
demonstration pilot sites. Given the estimated $5 billion cost 
to relocate communities, in Alaska and the Lower 48, we will 
need your help. So we would love to make sure we are staying in 
touch with you.
    I also want to add that President Biden has charged us all 
with an ``all of Government'' approach to Indian Country. It is 
not just the Department of the Interior that is working on 
these issues. It is every other department. It is the 
Department of Education when schools need to move. It is the 
Environmental Protection Agency. It is the Department of 
Energy. It is Housing and Urban Development.
    All of us are charged with ensuring that we are giving 
Indian Country what they need, and certainly, when a whole 
community is relocating, all of us will be responsible for 
making sure it is a successful move.
    So, we are always here to discuss this with you further. 
Don't hesitate to reach out to us if we can answer any specific 
questions, and I appreciate the question.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
    Thank you, Madam Chair, for giving us a little extra time 
on this subject. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. An important topic, and I am looking forward 
to hearing more.
    Mr. Stewart, do you have questions this morning?
    Mr. Stewart. I do. Thanks, Chairwoman.
    And Madam Secretary, thanks for joining with us, and thanks 
for the work that you do.
    You will forgive me. I want to emphasize my agreement with 
Ranking Member Joyce and his concerns regarding energy and oil 
production in the West. I mean, one of the first things the 
administration did was we could argue over the numbers or 
whether they shut it down or just made it very, very 
restrictive, but oil and gas permitting in the West, ANWAR, 
offshore.
    A greater concern is the demonization of the oil and gas 
industry, which is an industry that every American depends on, 
and the attempts to demonetize them, make it hard for them to 
get the financing that they need.
    And the bottom line, Madam Secretary, is it leads to, as 
has been pointed out, nearly doubling in oil and gas prices and 
energy prices. And if you are a working family, if you are the 
working poor, this is a real challenge for people. And so we 
hope we can work with you in the future as we try to take 
advantage of our own natural resources here, and so we don't 
have to go to Saudi Arabia and Venezuela and Iraq and ask them 
to increase their gas and oil production.
    Two questions for you, if I could, Madam Secretary, and I 
think they are things that we can work together on, at least I 
hope we can. They are local issues, but very important to my 
constituents.
    A good friend of mine, one of the great sheriffs that we 
have in my district--and I would argue in the entire State or 
country--is a friend of mine, Sheriff Perkins. Calf Creek Falls 
is a beautiful area in southern Utah. It is part of the Grand 
Escalante National Monument. It is such a beautiful place that 
it is an area that I have asked that we could designate as a 
national park.
    Many, many visitors take the 3-hour hike to Calf Creek 
Falls. It is very, very remote, as you can imagine, and very 
difficult to provide for search and rescue and, many cases, the 
actual rescue.
    It is so difficult that Sheriff Perkins can't get 
volunteers to go make these--carry people out who have been 
sick or injured. Three hours to get in, more than 3 hours to 
get out. Takes a 12-man team. And as I said, he just can't get 
people to do it. It is so difficult, so dangerous, so 
exhausting.
    Here is a very simple solution. All we have to do is clear 
out some willows. We don't have to do any excavation. We don't 
have to build any structures, cut any trees. If we could just 
clear out some willows, we could provide a landing area for 
rescue helicopters, which could do this flight in about 20 
minutes. And yet we have been unable to do that. It really is a 
life or death situation.
    Madam Secretary, can we count on you to work with us to 
implement a solution that we know will save lives and make this 
area actually safer and more accessible to people?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Congressman.
    I appreciate knowing about this. Of course, we are always 
willing to talk with you. We are always willing to work with 
you. We feel very committed to the safety of any American who 
is out in an outdoor Federal space.
    We will be more than happy to follow up with you on this 
issue.
    Mr. Stewart. Yes.
    Secretary Haaland. There is probably a lot more to it than 
just thinking about all the things involved with an issue like 
that.
    Mr. Stewart. Yes.
    Secretary Haaland. We would be more than happy to follow up 
with you on it.
    Mr. Stewart. Okay. Thank you. And that is what I was hoping 
you would say, and of course, I suspected you wouldn't be aware 
of this issue. There is no way you could be. It was, as I say, 
a local issue.
    And Madam Secretary, again, if we were asking for a great 
excavation or a change in the landscape or anything like that, 
I would understand the hesitancy of the administration, but it 
really is a simple solution. It is just some willows that we 
would be able to clear, and it would be--as I said, it really 
is a life or death situation now.
    One other thing, if I could mention it really quickly in 
the 55 seconds that I have left--and again, this is something 
that we would look forward to working with you. And that is we 
have a bit of a conflict in Bryce Canyon National Park. We have 
the concessionaires, which we support, and I know that you do 
as well. They take these horse guides down the trails.
    There is a bit of a conflict between the concessionaires 
and then a large number of private individuals who are doing 
the same thing. We think it has become a bit of a safety issue 
as well, and we would ask once again your commitment to work 
with us to try to find a solution that enhances the experience 
for people, but also leads to additional safety.
    Secretary Haaland. Absolutely. Very happy to follow up with 
you on this.
    As you know, we are very proud that we now have onboard the 
National Park Service Director, Chuck Sams. He is top-notch. I 
will make sure that we are in touch with you about this issue.
    Mr. Stewart. Thank you so much for your help. We look 
forward to working with you.
    And thanks, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much. Mr. Harder, questions from 
you this morning?
    Mr. Harder. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Chair Pingree.
    And Secretary Haaland, it is so good to see you. I smile 
every time I say ``Secretary Haaland.'' It is great to see you 
still in this position and to see your leadership of the 
Department.
    I will join many of my colleagues in thanking you for your 
visit to my district. One of the things that we talked about 
when you came out was the impact that the Western drought is 
having. And since that visit, things have only gotten worse. 
You heard from a lot of the farmers in our area, and one of the 
things that has come up again and again in our discussions is 
people looking at this year, seeing the limited snow pack and 
fearing that we could be headed into an even tougher third year 
when our reservoirs are even lower than they have been.
    I wanted to get a progress report on the investments in 
Western water infrastructure that were passed last year in the 
bipartisan infrastructure law. There was about $1.7 billion 
that was allocated to Western water infrastructure in that. It 
is one thing to have it allocated. It is another thing to get 
it out the door and making sure that it is going to good 
projects that are putting shovels in the dirt.
    Could you give us a progress report on how the Department 
has been using those funds and what projects we might be 
anticipating that being invested in?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much, Congressman.
    Yes, I fully understand the severity of the drought. We 
have staff here at the Department who work on that issue every 
single day. So I want you to know that it is a top priority for 
us, and our heart goes out to so many people who are feeling 
the negative effects of that drought.
    The significant investment in drought and water 
infrastructure available through the Bipartisan Infrastructure 
bill and supplemental funding is much needed, and it is very 
much appreciated. It is important that we leverage this once in 
a lifetime investment to get the most benefit for those 
communities being hit by drought.
    Reclamation is taking this responsibility seriously. There 
is a robust program management plan in place. A team of leaders 
across Reclamation's regions and directorates addresses each 
program area funded through the bill. And detailed spending 
plans for 2022 and 2023 are publicly available. We will 
absolutely make sure that we get you a copy of that forwarded 
to your staff so that you have it on hand.
    And of course, Reclamation is advancing various water 
storage and conveyance projects under the bill that will 
address water scarcity and enhance operational flexibility. 
Reclamation has and will also target projects that advance the 
statutory intent.
    It is an issue that, as I said, we work on every single 
day, and we know how much you care about it. So we will 
continue to make sure that we are connecting with the local 
folks on the ground there and do our very best.
    Mr. Harder. Thank you. I really appreciate that.
    And I would just underline here that I think implementation 
of this bill is actually more important than the dollars that 
were allocated to begin with. I think one of the things that we 
found again and again with water infrastructure is it can be 
one thing to get the dollars in a bank account. It can be 
another to actually make sure that they go out the door.
    We passed a water bond in California a few years ago that 
was well-intentioned. And yet, even in the midst of a historic 
drought like the one we are seeing, a lot of that money has not 
actually gone toward projects that are desperately needed, and 
I want to make sure that we get this right here.
    Do you have a sense of how much of that $1.7 billion has 
actually been invested in projects so far, or can you give us 
some sort of a timeline of when you would expect that money to 
actually be fully invested?
    Secretary Haaland. Congressman, I appreciate the question. 
I really feel the need to make sure that Reclamation follows up 
with you directly. I don't want to misquote or misstate 
anything. But I will make sure that they get to you and answer 
your question specifically so that we can be on the same page.
    Mr. Harder. Perfect. That sounds great. That would be very 
helpful. It would just be great to get some sort of a timeline. 
I know it to be a lot to really work out these agreements with 
individual agencies. And obviously, there are a lot of projects 
in our neck of the woods that we have our eye on, and we want 
to make sure, especially in the drought that we are seeing 
right now, that that money is actually invested in the types of 
projects that we know are very much in need.
    So thank you so much for your leadership, and I will yield 
back the remaining 4 seconds of my time.
    Ms. Pingree. That is a very generous yielding back there. 
So, Mr. Amodei, do you have questions this morning?
    Mr. Amodei. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I do.
    Good morning, Madam Secretary. It is good to see you.
    And I am going to kind of take the same route that some 
other members have taken that there are some things we would 
like to interact with your staff with, but we won't try to do 
it in the magic 5 minutes of this context. And I will give you 
a little heads-up on some of them.
    Obviously, we want to talk about how the administration's 
more recent announcement in terms of supporting a green energy 
agenda, what they have announced that they are going to be 
doing through your Department, how that meshes with how it 
helps and arguably doesn't help or whatever. But that is a 
discussion that is better with staff.
    But I want to put something on your radar screen because 
there has been an application in Nevada for a land withdrawal 
by a fellow administration agency, NASA. And so that is fine. 
You know, they have got a satellite GPS kind of station in 
Railroad Valley, Nevada, and they are concerned about that 
valley maybe being altered--although there is no present 
threat--altered by potential lithium exploration and stuff like 
that.
    So, great. They have applied, Madam Secretary, and they are 
going through the NEPA process, all well and good. Story is 
fine so far. Until we get to the part where this agency in NEPA 
had a request from the county that has planning and zoning 
jurisdiction over Railroad Valley to be a cooperating agency.
    Now you know, and everybody on this committee knows, the 
NEPA process well enough. It is like they just want to be made 
a cooperating agency so that they can provide their input 
directly since it is located in their county. And with all due 
respect to the folks at the National Aeronautics and Space 
Administration, they have said no.
    Now, as a credit to your folks in the Bureau of Land 
Management, you know, your State people, the district managers, 
they are kind of like, hey, well, you know, whatever. And 
NASA's response is, oh, well, we will certainly take whatever 
they have to say into account. But--and these are my words, 
nobody else's--but we just have the impression that it is less 
complicated if we don't let them be a cooperating agency.
    So let me touch rather quick. Ultimately, you will make the 
decision on that land withdrawal, and that is great. But I also 
think that we all have an obligation to respect the system. And 
so when somebody asks to be a cooperating agency who is the 
county in which the application is made, and your people have 
been told no, and BLM--by NASA.
    You will get a kick out of this. So I said, okay, I want to 
be a cooperating agency as a Member of Congress with oversight 
authority and budget authority over you. Guess what? They 
basically turned the volume off on me. Now that won't be the 
last word, but I am sitting here going this is phenomenal 
procedural arrogance in the part of--and it is going to be your 
guys' stuff.
    So the reason I told you all that is we are going to be 
asking to get on whoever the appropriate person at the 
Department of the Interior's calendar, along with the BLM 
person, to say, hey, as the agency who ultimately is going to 
make the decision because NASA had to apply at BLM, it is like 
can we please show a little respect for the NEPA process other 
than as the applicant?
    Now I get if it was something where--but it is like, Jesus, 
if the county in which it is located is told no by an agency, I 
mean, what does that say for our process? So, anyhow, I just 
wanted to give you a heads-up on that where it is like we would 
really like to work--it is like, listen, BLM and Interior will 
make whatever decision they want after taking all the evidence, 
which is fine. But to tell somebody they are not welcome to 
have a voice in the process formally? I just--it is like, well, 
how disrespectful to the whole NEPA process.
    So we will look forward to talking to you about that, and 
like I said, there are a couple of other things. But I wanted 
to put that on your radar screen because I have never seen that 
in all the time, regardless of what you think about NEPA, where 
you are going, no, you are not welcome to come talk, even 
though it is in your county. Holy mackerel.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Secretary Haaland. Congressman, just very quickly, I will 
say that I believe very strongly that stakeholders deserve to 
be heard. I appreciate you going into detail about this, and I 
will make sure that our BLM Director follows up with you.
    Mr. Amodei. Great. Thank you. I look forward to speaking 
with you guys on it.
    Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Yes, thank you so much. Next we have 
Representative Lee.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member Joyce, 
for hosting today's hearing.
    It is great to see you, Madam Secretary, and as mentioned 
here by many people, thank you for taking the time to come 
visit my district and our State. And as you know, no State 
south of Alaska has more Federal lands than the State of 
Nevada, most of which is overseen by the BLM. And as Member 
Simpson said here that the staffing shortage has been an issue 
across the West, and it has inhibited us from meeting some 
public lands challenges with the urgency they deserve.
    In Clark County, in my district, which has fully funded 
parks and trails projects on BLM lands and already funded with 
local funds, it could currently take up to 2 years or more for 
BLM to sign off on the Recreation and Public Purposes Act 
leases that would allow these counties to move these projects 
forward and, more importantly, help the Department carry out 
the America the Beautiful Initiative.
    Could you--other than staffing, could you speak to why this 
approval process takes so long and what we can be doing 
together to help expedite it?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much for the question, 
Congresswoman, and I appreciate knowing how you feel about 
this.
    Yes, we recognize that building capacity in the BLM is a 
priority for us, and we are working on ways to expedite hiring 
for positions that support operations such as contracting 
officers, engineers, and human resources. All those efforts are 
ongoing, and I want you to know that we are working on it, and 
we are happy to follow up with you in any way, shape, or form 
that we can. But please know that we recognize this is an 
issue, and we are doing our best to remedy it.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you. Yes, we will follow up on that.
    Maybe there is a way where we can prioritize projects that 
have the funding, are sort of shovel ready, and get them out 
the door to ease up some of this backlog. And again, I 
completely understand the staffing issue and so have some 
sympathy on that as well, but I would love to see those 
projects move forward.
    I want to turn now to renewable energy. And as we know, it 
is imperative to make this transition, and obviously, time is 
of the essence. And last week, the Department released its 
roadmap for achieving the 10 gigawatts of renewable energy on 
public lands by the end of next year, nearly doubling capacity.
    But across the West, we have seen instances where late or 
insufficient community consultation has prevented some 
renewable projects from proceeding. And in fact, last week 
developers of what would have been southern Nevada's largest 
solar facility pulled their project amid pushback from local 
residents and some conservation groups.
    And so as the Department continues to fast track renewable 
energy development, what are you doing to ensure this kind of 
proactive early concentration with relevant communities and 
stakeholders, let us work to prevent the spread of 
misinformation, protect key resources, and keep our projects 
moving forward in the right direction so that we can actually 
get them constructed. What are your plans to do that?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Congresswoman.
    And yes, I couldn't agree with you more. Proactively 
engaging States, counties, local communities, Indian tribes, 
other interested stakeholders are certainly important to moving 
a project forward. Thank you for that.
    In early 2022, we established an agreement with five 
agencies--the USDA, the EPA, Energy, Defense, and us--to 
coordinate permitting. The BLM is establishing a renewable 
energy coordinating office to work with key partners. We think 
that might help to move the issue forward.
    I have a few examples for you. We have had robust 
coordination in combining multiple projects under a single EIS. 
There are seven solar projects proposed near Tonopah, Nevada, 
that you likely know about. DOI, BLM, NPS were facilitating 
stakeholder engagement.
    And stakeholder engagement is incredibly important to me. I 
feel like we have really tried to do that well and I will make 
sure that we are paying very close attention to that. Regarding 
stakeholder engagement on the Lava Ridge wind proposal in 
Idaho, that will address concerns on potential impact 
surrounding a national historic site there.
    There is a BLM updated policy to rank wind and solar 
projects as high, medium, low priority. We are happy to share 
more about that with you. We want to focus our resources on 
most developed proposals with least anticipated natural and 
cultural resource conflict. They are not all easy, but getting 
the easy ones done first seems like a good plan to get these 
things moving.
    We will continue to work on that. Thank you for your 
patience, and certainly, I will have my staff reach out to you 
so that we can answer any specific questions that you have.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you, Madam Secretary. Yes, this is 
obviously an important issue in our State, where we have many 
opportunities for this type of development. So, love to work 
with your team.
    Thank you. And I yield.
    Ms. Pingree. Chair Kaptur, do you have questions this 
morning?
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you so 
very much, and so glad you chair this subcommittee.
    And I will just say, seeing Mr. Joyce from Ohio, it is a 
modern miracle that there are actually two Great Lakers. We 
both also co-chair the Great Lakes Task Force, and Madam 
Secretary, we are very grateful for your visit to Ohio in your 
early years of service at the Department of the Interior. That 
was a great honor for us.
    And I want to go back to that visit and just discuss with 
you and with the staff that is over there at the Department, 
compared to some of our Western colleagues who are very 
connected to the Department of the Interior, in areas like ours 
east of the Mississippi River, we have some small--at least in 
Ohio--Department of the Interior assets. But the connectivity 
east of the Mississippi with the Department of the Interior is 
nothing like what exists west of the Mississippi. So your 
experience, your travels, your attitude gives us a moment to 
perhaps use some Department resources in ways we hadn't before.
    For example, where you visited, the Ottawa Wildlife Refuge, 
actually came about many years ago from duck hunters, both that 
one and the Cedar Point Refuge. We have built what were very 
tiny assets that were held privately into major points of 
visitation largely without the help of the Department of the 
Interior, although the Fish and Wildlife Service, where you 
visited that one site, over the years, we have been able to 
work with them to increase holdings along Lake Erie, the most 
fragile of the Great Lakes. The shallowest, the most used by 
visitors.
    We have millions of boaters, and we have lots of fish. And 
we have I think it is about a $7 billion fishery, about a $16 
billion boating industry. So we are talking about a lot of 
money, all of it threatened by the Asian carp.
    But what would help us, I think, is to have some type of 
effort working with the Department to bring some of your 
planning staff where we could bring our local stakeholders, the 
Fish and Wildlife Service from the Cleveland area, the National 
Park Service--because the Cuyahoga Valley National Park is one 
of the largest and most visited in the country. It is in the 
top 10. But there is no connectivity.
    We have a Perry's Memorial that is probably the smallest 
Federal park that sits out by the lake memorializing what 
happened related to the war in 1812. But there is no 
connectivity. There is no common interpretation. There is no 
pathway that people move through Department of the Interior 
holdings. There is almost no cooperation between the National 
Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service. It is like two 
different creatures.
    So with the funding in your bill, as well as the new 
funding in BIF that provides for such things as cross-lake 
interconnectivity and trail connectivity, it would be very 
valuable to us to have a discussion, working with our State 
park people. We have very few forests up in our part of the 
State, but there are some down in the southern part of Ohio.
    But the metro parks, the Toledo metro parks, for example, 
were number-one metro parks in the country last year--Toledo, 
Ohio. We are so proud of our community. And the Cuyahoga Valley 
park and some of the metro parks in the Cleveland, Greater 
Cleveland area just have historic visitation.
    We are about to receive along the lake at our refuges 
hundreds of thousands of birders. We have built up birding into 
nature tourism as a major economic development sector for our 
region. But all of this is just dots on the map. There is no 
connectivity.
    So I am just asking if you could consider some type of 
meeting that we could hold, a working meeting where we could 
bring together all these stakeholders that can make a 
difference, and then think about a future where the former 
Northwest Territory, which settled America after the 13 
colonies, would have interpretation.
    That does not exist in the mindset of the Department of the 
Interior. But with your leadership, I think maybe we can take a 
step in that direction. So I am just asking with my question, 
can you think about helping us connect the assets there with 
common interpretation, working our State and local 
stakeholders?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Congresswoman.
    And yes, I recall being at the wildlife refuge with you and 
you talking about this, and actually seeing it in real life. It 
was a beautiful place, and I am so grateful that I had the 
chance to be there with you.
    We are absolutely happy to speak with you. I will make sure 
that my staff reaches out to your staff, and we would love to 
engage in a conversation about this. And thank you so much for 
caring about the area and really wanting, wanting that space 
for folks to truly enjoy.
    So we will be in touch, and I appreciate the question.
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you. And I will just say in terms of 
historical tourism, and I will end with this, if you think 
about the name of Lake Erie, many of the counties you were in--
Cuyahoga, Erie, Ottawa--there is a Native American history 
there that has never been allowed to be brought up, as well as 
the fact that we were on the Underground Railroad, and that 
particular lake and its connectivity with Canada is an historic 
place. It is as though it never happened, but it did happen.
    And so I feel a responsibility, and I think with your 
leadership, maybe for the first time in modern history we can 
do something that has been left out of America's history books.
    Thank you so much.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you, Chair Kaptur. Sounds like you have 
got [inaudible].
    Chair Cartwright.
    Mr. Cartwright. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    And Secretary Haaland, what a delight it is for us to have 
you at the helm of Interior. You are carrying on a proud family 
legacy of public service, with your father a 30-year Marine 
Corps combat veteran, recipient of the Silver Star for Valor. 
Your mother, a Navy veteran, 25 years in the BIA herself. Thank 
you for doing this service and carrying on your proud family 
legacy.
    It was a thrill to have you in my district. It seems like 
you have visited everybody's district on this whole 
subcommittee. What are you up to here?
    And you were up in my district in the chill of winter. I 
know it gets cold in Albuquerque, too, but it was pretty cold 
in northeastern Pennsylvania when you toured abandoned mine 
land sites with me. And thank you for all the work you are 
doing to implement the IIJA and its devotion to cleaning up 
abandoned mine lands and acid mine drainage, and we will be 
talking a lot about that.
    I also was thrilled to have NPS Director Chuck Sams up in 
my district last week. On Friday, we were in the Delaware Water 
Gap National Recreation Area together. What a terrific guy. It 
was a thrill to meet him.
    But I want to say, I want to talk about the MMIW, something 
that you brought to our attention in your time in the House. 
You were a leader in tackling the crisis of violence against 
Native Americans, in particular the crisis of missing and 
murdered indigenous women and persons in general. Under your 
leadership, our 116th Congress, we passed the Not Invisible Act 
of 2019, which directed the Department of the Interior and the 
Department of Justice to establish a joint commission to advise 
both departments on intergovernmental coordination and best 
practice, looking to hear from law enforcement, tribal leaders, 
survivors, and other important voices.
    Now in October of last year, 2021, in response to a GAO 
recommendation, Interior said that it had created a timeline 
for that commission and was in the process of receiving and 
reviewing nominations for it. Madam Secretary, would you be 
able to update us on the status of that commission, its 
nominations, and the proposed timeline for action?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Congressman.
    Yes, it was wonderful, even though it was cold. It does get 
cold in Albuquerque. The thing is, winter only lasts about 2 
weeks there. I am getting used to the cold weather fast. In 
fact, last week I was in the highest point in the United States 
in Utqiagvik, Alaska, and it was 4 degrees up there. And I 
survived.
    But nonetheless, I appreciate the issue. You might remember 
that I worked hard on the Not Invisible Act when I was in 
Congress. I was very proud to get that passed and, of course, 
now I am proud to implement it.
    We are working hard on that. We had a lot of interest from 
folks sending in their names. People, they want to participate, 
and that is really a good thing. I don't have an exact date for 
you right now, but we are working closely with the Department 
of Justice as we need to on this issue, and you can expect an 
announcement soon. And we will absolutely make sure that you 
know about it when we do.
    Mr. Cartwright. Good. And as chair of the House 
Appropriations Commerce, Justice, and Science Subcommittee, I 
am particularly interested in the collaboration of Interior 
with Justice. Will you keep us posted on the collaboration and 
the extent of cooperation that is going on there?
    Secretary Haaland. Absolutely. We will absolutely keep you 
informed, yes.
    Mr. Cartwright. Thanks so much. And Chair Pingree, I yield 
back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thanks very much for your important question.
    Well, Secretary Haaland, with your indulgence, we will go 
to a second round of questions for any members who have things 
that they would like to discuss, and I will just start with a 
topic that I am interested in, these are the USGS Climate 
Adaptation Science Centers.
    In fiscal year 2022, the bill provided an increase of $10.6 
million for the National and Regional Climate Adaption Science 
Centers, known as CASCs. This is a great partnership-driven 
program based out of host universities that goes ahead and 
analyzes the impact of climate change on ecosystems and natural 
resources and develops adaptations to protect natural places 
and local communities.
    So I am curious to hear you talk about how the funding 
increase in 2022 will be allocated, what critical science needs 
it will be focused on, and in the 2023 budget, there is an 
increase of $32.5 million for National and Regional Climate 
Adaptation Science Centers, and I would love to hear more about 
how this will further the ongoing work of supporting climate 
science needs.
    So can you discuss that a little bit?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Chairwoman.
    I am really proud. We have the best team of scientists at 
the USGS, and they work hard every single day, and I have had a 
chance to visit with many of them.
    The USGS Climate Science Center has partnerships with the 
universities, and they conduct climate research and strategies 
to minimize regional climate impacts. In the Southwest, we are 
partnering with the U.S. Forest Service and other public land 
managers to inform post fire forest recovery strategies, which 
we know in this day and age is extremely important, especially 
in light of climate change.
    In your State, we are working with the Wabanaki Tribal 
Nations to mitigate climate impacts to critical tribal natural 
resources, building a regional tribal network for climate 
adaptation, and documenting culturally appropriate adaptive 
management tools and techniques for tribal leaders. We feel 
very committed to ensuring that tribes have opportunities to 
move on these issues as well.
    And I want to mention here, Chairwoman, that tribal 
ecological knowledge is something that is extremely important 
to us. We feel very committed to and grateful, in fact, that we 
are able to learn from tribes who have stewarded these lands 
since time immemorial, for a lot longer than our country has 
been a country. So wherever it is possible, we are working with 
tribes in that area as well.
    Ms. Pingree. Yes, thank you for bringing that up, and I 
really appreciate your unique perspective on that. As you say, 
we have a lot to learn from the tribes and their long-term 
preservation of the land. So it is an important time to be 
melding those two things.
    And also I am excited about this work at the USGS. I feel 
like that is one of our underrecognized and extremely important 
agencies of science, and given the fact that so much of our 
future focus is going to be on the science of weather, they are 
in such a good position to do it. So I hope we can continue to 
support their work in any way possible.
    And lastly, I would just like to say thank you so much for 
your strong support of science and bringing back science to the 
Department of the Interior and recognizing it as a critical 
role that you play. So we want to continue to support you with 
that.
    And with that, I will recognize Mr. Joyce for any questions 
he has.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you again, Madam Chair.
    I hate to sound like a broken record, Madam Secretary, but 
the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act requires the Department 
to prepare and maintain a 5-year offshore leasing program that 
best meets the national energy needs. The current 5-year plan 
expires on July 1 and authorizes three areas for lease sales on 
which the Department has not acted.
    Question. Will the Department have a new offshore 5-year 
plan in place on July 1? And if not, does the Department intend 
to finalize the next 5-year plan in fiscal year 2023?
    Further, does the Department intend to conduct further 
lease sales in fiscal years 2022 and 2023, and when does the 
Department anticipate resuming holding lease sales in the Gulf 
of Mexico that are already authorized in the current 5-year 
plan?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Ranking Member 
Joyce. I will try to answer all of your questions. If I forget 
one, please remind me. I appreciate that.
    So with respect to the new 5-year plan, you may know that 
the previous administration, had stopped all the work on a new 
5-year plan in 2018. That was after their proposal received a 
lot of opposition for drilling in places where folks didn't 
want drilling.
    The internal work at BOEM has been moving forward on a new 
5-year plan. Our staff there has been working hard on this. 
There is significant amount of internal work that still needs 
to be done. You also know that there is a lot of varying and 
conflicting litigation that has been a complicating factor for 
our Department, and of course, we are always happy to update 
you on timing as our work continues in that area.
    And were you asking about the status of remaining lease 
sales as well?
    Mr. Joyce. Yes.
    Secretary Haaland. Okay. So the current 2017 through 2022 
National OCS Program that expires on June 30 has three 
scheduled lease sales remaining--258, 259, and 261. Recent 
court decisions have impacted work on remaining lease sales for 
that period of time, and BOEM's internal work remains ongoing. 
As I always say, we want to make sure we are following the law 
on these things.
    No decisions have been made regarding the remaining lease 
sales for that period, 2017 to 2022, and so I don't have any 
updates today. But of course, we are always happy to be in 
touch with you and your office.
    Mr. Joyce. I certainly appreciate that and any updates that 
may follow.
    I want to switch subjects to something else that is of 
interest. Last September at Picuris Pueblo in northern New 
Mexico, BIA law enforcement confiscated nine cannabis plants 
from a man who was growing them in his house. He was enrolled 
in the State's medical marijuana program to ease post traumatic 
stress and anxiety, and these plants provided a full year of 
treatment.
    Though not a tribal member, the gentleman lives on the 
pueblo, where the tribe, like the State, has decriminalized 
medical marijuana. The incident had sent a chill through Indian 
Country as tribes are unsure if the Federal Government will 
continue to enforce and prioritize Federal marijuana laws only 
on reservations.
    Do you agree with BIA's law enforcement action in this 
case? And further, have you taken any or do you plan to take 
any steps to change policy from such actions occurring in the 
future where both the State and the tribes have legalized 
medicinal marijuana?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much for that question, 
Ranking Member Joyce.
    And of course, this question involves the authority and 
policy of the Department of Justice as well as the BIA, and 
therefore, I respect that we have to have a unified 
administration approach on this issue. Tribes have authority to 
make marijuana legal on their reservations under tribal law. 
Although I cannot change the Federal law, I understand the 
issue. I understand what tribes are saying, and I respect 
tribal laws. We want to work in partnership with tribes on any 
public safety issues and their priorities.
    Here, this specific policy approach involves the Department 
of Justice, and what I can say is I am always happy to work 
with the Department of Justice on a variety of Indian Country 
issues. And I will be happy to continue to update you or speak 
more specifically about this issue. I understand and appreciate 
you caring about it.
    Mr. Joyce. Well, God bless you, Madam Secretary, and all 
your hard work. And I continue to look forward to working with 
you, together with Chair Pingree and the rest of this 
committee, moving forward.
    Thank you. I yield what no time I have back. [Laughter.]
    Ms. Pingree. There was imaginary time you yielded back.
    And thank you for bringing up that last topic. I think that 
is important, and I hope we can have a further conversation 
about it.
    Chair McCollum, do you have a second question you would 
like to ask?
    Ms. McCollum. Yes, I do. I am going to kind of go back to 
the budget in general. I think something that has been very 
frustrating for all of us in a nonpartisan fashion is as we 
want to move Indian Country forward, we find ourselves trapped 
in spending patterns that were developed by past 
administrations. We can go back hundreds of years on this for 
Indian Country.
    So I am encouraged to see the administration trying to do 
the right thing in moving towards the way contract support 
costs are being held and payments for tribal leases are being 
held by changing that in a way to reclassify them as mandatory 
spending. Because they are obligations. They are not options. 
And when this committee is forced to treat them as options 
because Chair Pingree has EPA, Bureau of Land Management, and 
so many other responsibilities in here, to try to get the right 
thing done the right way becomes very hard.
    So I would like you to talk a little more about how living 
up to our trust and treaty responsibilities by treating these 
as mandatory will not only help right wrongs in Indian Country 
but will also help engage all the important work that you do 
side by side with this committee for all the other spending we 
need to do.
    And if you have a comment, and maybe in lieu of taxes also 
I believe used to be mandatory, and then it was made 
nonmandatory by a previous Congress. That has also had a huge 
impact on our ability to do things right for the Department of 
the Interior. And that year alone, it has a 10 percent 
increase. And I am a recipient. My State is a recipient of 
payment in lieu of taxes. I think it is the right thing to do, 
but that also should be mandatory.
    So I am going to give you 3 minutes to talk big picture 
about how we can right size this budget. Thank you.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Congresswoman.
    Generally, if tribes don't have to worry about certain 
parts of their budgets, then they are free to work on things 
that they know will help their communities. I think it is 
difficult for them sometimes to plan ahead when they don't know 
what they can expect. And of course, we appreciate everything 
that the Congress does and your committee does to ensure that 
we have the best support possible to give to tribes.
    With respect to contract support costs and tribal lease 
payments, the budget proposes to reclassify funding for tribal 
contract support costs and tribal 105(l) lease payments from 
discretionary to mandatory in 2023. That would be a game-
changer for tribes. And as I mentioned, they wouldn't have to 
fight for these funds every year or trade off or cuts to other 
tribal programs. If you recall when I first came into Congress, 
shortly before I was sworn in, the U.S. Commission on Civil 
Rights came out with the Broken Promises report and pretty much 
laid that out over decades and decades that tribes have been 
underfunded in so many ways.
    So we recognize that. We think that the 105(l) lease 
funding would allow tribes to drive infrastructure investments, 
which we know is incredibly important to them. Sometimes folks 
just want to have running water, or they just want to be able 
to log on to the Internet, and their kids should be able to 
attend a school that isn't going to flood when they walk in.
    These are all things that we know would be a tremendous 
help to Indian Country. This proposal, with respect to the 
105(l) leases, would ensure that funds are available without 
reducing funding for other tribal priorities.
    Everything is a priority in Indian Country, and so we will 
absolutely do our best to make sure that whatever we can do, we 
will do. And a lot of these priorities we learned because we 
feel that tribal consultation is a hallmark of this 
administration. It is President Biden's priority. It is our 
priority not just at the Department of the Interior, but across 
the Federal Government to consult with tribes. Those are the 
things they tell us, and we are very grateful that you are 
listening as well.
    Ms. Pingree. I think you are muted, Chair McCollum, if you 
were saying something else.
    Ms. McCollum. I was just thanking you for being so gracious 
and such a fabulous chair. And thanking the Secretary.
    Ms. Pingree. Whoa, thank you. There is never enough 
thanking of the Secretary.
    Representative Simpson, do you have a question you would 
like to ask?
    Mr. Simpson. There we go. Okay. Yes, I would like to--first 
of all, I would like to thank you, Secretary, for being here 
today. And as you can tell, both Republicans and Democrats, 
whether it is under Chairman Pingree or McCollum or Ken Calvert 
or myself--even back to Norm Dicks or Jim Moran--when I served 
on this committee, in a bipartisan fashion, we have all been 
committed to keeping our treaty obligations and trust 
obligations with tribes.
    And you have got a committee that will work with you to try 
to make sure we do that. So I appreciate that, and I appreciate 
the emphasis that the administration and you have placed on 
that. And we want to work with you on that.
    Three things I do want to bring up. Two of them are just a 
little advice maybe, and the last one is a question.
    So the first one is, as you know, I have been able to put 
language in the appropriation bill for several years preventing 
the listing of sage-grouse in the West. It is not because we 
don't care about sage-grouse. It is because when it was 
originally started under Secretary Salazar, he encouraged the 
States to get together and create sage-grouse plans with local 
communities and the Federal Government and then to enact those 
plans.
    And States have worked very hard to do that. Idaho has 
worked very hard to do that. If we are going to save sage-
grouse and the habitat for sage-grouse, it is going to take the 
local communities, it is going to take the States, and it's 
going to take the Federal Government.
    When you list sage-grouse, all of a sudden, you eliminate 
the State and local input or the desire to participate in that. 
So I want you to keep track of that and remember we need to 
keep the States and local communities involved in that. That is 
the only reason we put that language in there so that we don't 
list them. It is not to prevent--that we don't care about sage-
grouse going extinct. That is not the case at all.
    So that is just a little piece of advice to look forward. 
The other one I want to get back to is the personnel in this 
Department. And coming from the West, you know that the reason 
that many of us live in the West is because we love our public 
lands and we want to have access to those public lands. Access 
is an issue.
    The Great American Outdoors Act, it was supposed to 
increase the access to these public lands and stuff, but we are 
having a real difficult time in trying to enact some of those 
programs and some of the projects because we don't have the 
personnel to do that. So whatever we can do to help you get the 
personnel so that we can move on those in a quicker fashion and 
implement the intent of the Great American Outdoors Act, as 
well as other programs, let us know because that is critical.
    As I said, you can have the best--you can put a lot of 
money into these programs, but if you don't have the personnel 
to carry them out, it doesn't really mean anything.
    The last issue that I want to bring up is we have talked a 
lot about gas and oil. The other issue is our supply chain in 
critical minerals in this country. It is a huge issue that we 
are dependent on, frankly, countries that don't really like us 
for a lot of the critical minerals.
    As an example, in Idaho, we have a mine that is developing 
antimony, gold and antimony that will actually do a clean-up of 
a previous mine from World War II. Spent 6 years in trying to 
get that permitted, which is just crazy.
    We have another one that is cobalt mines. They have been 
over a decade getting the permitting for that.
    What are you doing or what should we be doing to streamline 
the permitting process so that we can have access? We have all 
these critical minerals and rare earths in the United States. 
Most of them are located on public lands. So we need the 
access. We need to streamline the permitting process so that 
there could be some certainty in that and that we don't become 
more and more dependent on, frankly, people that don't like us 
for some of these rare earths and critical minerals.
    So what can we do to help you streamline this process so 
that we can get access to these things?
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much for the question, 
Congressman.
    The permitting process ensures mining of critical minerals 
is not done at the expense of natural resource consideration 
and tribal and rural communities. We recognize the importance 
of critical minerals and the need to improve the process. As 
you know, President Biden believes very strongly in energy 
independence here in our country, and critical minerals are 
important to our transition to clean energy.
    We established an interagency working group that will 
recommend reforms to the hard rock mining laws and permitting 
regulations. One of the goals of that interagency working group 
is to improve permitting efficiency.
    Yes, 10 years is a long time. I recognize that. This report 
will be delivered to Congress later this year with 
recommendations. We would appreciate your input at that point. 
Just know that BLM continues to process mining applications 
currently, including those for lithium, vanadium, and other 
critical minerals. They will continue to do that, and we are 
working on the permitting efficiency and outcome.
    Thank you so much for the question and I'm happy to give 
you more details as time goes on.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you. I look forward to working with you 
on that because it is something critical we have got to do. And 
of course, with the goal of batteries, wind power, nuclear 
power, all of those kind of things, a mineral like antimony is 
critical to all of those things. So achieving some of your 
goals, it is important that we have those critical minerals.
    But thank you, Chairwoman Pingree, and thanks for this 
hearing.
    And thank you, Secretary, for being here today.
    Ms. Pingree. Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Simpson. I think 
that is a really important topic that you brought up at the 
end, and I will look forward to having a chance to hear more 
about it. I think we are all going to learn the names of 
minerals that we never knew existed before, and we got to do a 
crash course in that.
    So, Secretary Haaland, thank you so much for the time you 
spent with our committee today. We are really pleased to have 
you in your role. Thank you for bringing your experience and 
your perspective to that role. We look forward to continuing to 
work with you on this year's budget.
    And thank you to Mr. Joyce for being part of this important 
hearing.
    And with that, seeing no more questions, the hearing is now 
adjourned.
    Secretary Haaland. Thank you.

                                            Friday, April 29, 2022.

                    ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

                               WITNESSES

MICHAEL REGAN, ADMINISTRATOR, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, 
    ACCOMPANIED BY FAISAL AMIN, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, ENVIRONMENTAL 
    PROTECTION AGENCY
    Ms. Pingree. Good morning. This hearing will now come to 
order.
    Today, the Interior, Environment Subcommittee will examine 
the President's fiscal year 2023 budget request for the 
Environmental Protection Agency. Joining with us this morning 
is EPA Administrator Michael Regan. With him is Chief financial 
Officer, Faisal Amin. It is good to see you, Mr. Administrator, 
and welcome, Mr. Amin.
    Before you start, I want to personally thank both of you 
for your partnership in completing the fiscal year 2022 bill, 
and I look forward to working with you as we begin our work on 
the fiscal year 2023 bill. Administrator Regan, I also want to 
thank you so much for your visit to Saco a couple of months 
ago. I appreciated your insight and commitment to help not just 
with our PFAS issues in Maine but across the country.
    For fiscal year 2023, the President is requesting $11.9 
billion for the EPA, a $2.3 billion increase over the enacted 
level. In addition to this request, the EPA has released its 
strategic plan with seven clear and ambitious goals. For this 
first time, this plan includes a goal focused on solely on 
addressing climate change. This also includes an unprecedented 
goal to advance environmental justice and civil rights. I 
applaud you for taking on these two critical issues and look 
forward to supporting you in these efforts. During this 
hearing, I hope that we can explore further how this request 
will support your strategic plan and primary mission to protect 
human health and the environment.
    Some highlights of the budget request include increasing 
staffing after years of decline to its highest levels in over a 
decade; tackling the climate crisis head on through robust 
funding for the EPA science, and technology, and environment 
programs; taking decisive action to address environmental 
justice and civil rights so that we can finally make 
significant strides in communities that have been historically 
under served and overburdened; and building on the funding 
provided in the American Rescue Plan and the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act to fix our Nation's crumbling 
infrastructure and to address public health challenges that we 
currently face.
    I firmly believe the EPA's missions is achievable when it 
is fully resourced and staffed. That is why our fiscal year 
2022 bill provided the EPA with the second-largest increase to 
its budget in over a decade. We also funded environmental 
justice at $100 million, which is the largest increase the 
program has seen in its 50-year history. The President's 
request builds on the success of our fiscal year 2022 bill, and 
I look forward to collaborating closely with the administrator 
and President Biden in achieving our shared vision for a safer, 
more prosperous, and more just Nation.
    I would now like to yield to my friend, the ranking member 
of the subcommittee, Mr. Joyce, for any opening remarks he 
would like to make.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you for yielding, Madam Chair. I 
appreciate today's opportunity to discuss the Environmental 
Protection Agency's fiscal year 2023 budget proposal. Welcome 
back, Administrator Regan. Thanks to you and Mr. Amin for 
joining us this morning. Mr. Amin, I believe this is your first 
time appearing before the subcommittee in this capacity, so 
congratulation on your appointment and welcome.
    Mr. Regan, your stewardship of the EPA is important, and we 
value the work you and your staff do day in and day out to keep 
our air, land, and water clean. I also appreciate that you have 
made a point to travel around the country, including to my home 
State of Ohio, to see how States and tribes rely on EPA funding 
to manage core environmental programs, make critical 
infrastructure upgrades, and protect our natural resources.
    When you appeared before us last year, I raised the 
importance of reining in our Federal spending following the 
pandemic. Regrettably, the administration's fiscal year 2023 
budget is a substantial departure from the bipartisan funding 
agreement Congress passed last month. For EPA, this request 
includes an additional $2.3 billion and seeks to add well over 
1,000 new Federal employees. Notably, the budget proposal is 
nearly $650 million more than the administration's request last 
year. We seem to be moving in the wrong direction, 
Administrator.
    Right now, inflation is at a 40-year high, gas prices are 
skyrocketing, and Americans across the country are struggling 
to pay their bills. To create a vibrant economy today and for 
our kids and grandkids, Congress and this committee, in 
particular, cannot entertain unrealistic spending levels. We 
have a duty to the taxpayer to work within spending 
constraints, implement fiscally-responsible policies, and 
ensure that every dollar we provide to the EPA helps to meet 
your mission.
    To that point, I was pleased to see EPA's requests focuses 
on providing funds to ensure clean and safe water for our 
Nation's citizens, support much-needed infrastructure 
improvements, revitalize contaminated areas through the Brown 
fields Program, and to partner with States, tribes, and local 
stakeholders to address environmental and public health 
threats. Notably, these programs make substantial differences 
in communities without the use of top-down, heavy-handed 
regulations. Unfortunately, these core investments are 
overshadowed by the Agency's emphasis on providing 
extraordinary funding levels to write regulations, hire more 
lawyers, push unrealistic climate goals, and carry out a robust 
enforcement agenda. I plan to work with the chair to ensure the 
programs that have significant impact in States and localities, 
like the Superfund cleanup programs, rural water technical 
assistance grants, and regional water programs, receive the 
attention and increases they deserve.
    Restoring geographic program dollars, like those provided 
through the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative, are essential 
in protecting some of our Nation's most valuable natural 
resources. I know firsthand that now is not the time to take 
our foot off the gas, especially when it comes to protecting 
the lakes. Building on the GLRI investment from fiscal year 
2022 is vital to ensuring that the Great Lakes, which provide 
clean drinking water to 48 million Americans, support more than 
1-and-a-half million jobs, and generate over $62 billion in 
wages each year, are safeguarded from longstanding threats, 
like harmful algae blooms, water pollution, invasive species, 
and coastal erosion.
    I have no doubt that we will also have a robust policy 
discussion given what is playing out on the world stage. With 
the conflict rating in Ukraine and the steep prices we are 
seeing at the gas pump, it is now more important than ever that 
we continue to promote an all-of-the-above domestic energy 
strategy. Utilizing all of our domestic resources to increase 
production and brings stability to the marketplace, reduces 
energy costs, spurs economic growth, and creates good-paying 
jobs. More than that, it puts America on a path to energy 
independence, which is imperative to our national security.
    I am concerned, though, that this administration is 
pursuing an agenda that, simply put, undermines the American 
energy sector and fails to put American industries first and 
businesses first. Rather than imposing burdensome and costly 
regulations, EPA and its Federal partners should be 
collaborating with the energy sector to leverage free-market 
solutions, spur innovation, and enhance emission reduction 
technology to unleash energy production here at home. If not, 
we and our allies will be forced to turn to foreign countries 
to meet our energy needs.
    I look forward to having a constructive conversation about 
how the fiscal year 2023 budget can support, rather than 
sideline, American energy. I also look forward to understanding 
how the Agency is implementing commonsense, cost-effective 
rulemakings to help us protect the environment while providing 
regulatory certainty to our small businesses, farmers, and 
ranchers. We have all struggled the last couple of years, and I 
want to ensure the EPA is doing its part to boost, not burden, 
all sectors of the economy.
    Thank you, again, for joining us this morning, 
Administrator Regan. As the fiscal year 2023 process moves 
forward, I look forward to working with the chair to provide 
the EPA with the necessary resources to meet its mission to 
protect the American people and our environment. Thank you, 
Chair Pingree. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much for your Statement. Mr. 
Regan, we would love to hear from you now. Thank you very much 
for joining us this morning.
    Mr. Regan. Well, thank you, Chairwoman Pingree, and Ranking 
Member Joyce, and members of the committee. You know, I really 
appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to 
discuss the bold vision laid out in the U.S. EPA's proposed 
fiscal year 2023 budget. In this budget request, we lay out an 
ambitious and transformative plan for the EPA with the goal of 
a healthier, more prosperous Nation where all people have equal 
access to clean air, clean water, and healthy communities.
    President Biden's proposed fiscal year 2023 budget request 
for EPA provides $11.9 billion to advance key priorities 
tackling the climate crisis, delivering environmental justice 
and equity for everyone, protecting air quality, upgrading the 
Nation's aging water infrastructure, revitalizing our Nation's 
magnificent water bodies, and rebuilding core functions at EPA 
to keep pace with the growing economy. Over the last year, we 
have made important progress towards many of these goals, and I 
am proud of the foundations we have laid and partnerships that 
have underpinned our successes. But there is still so much more 
work to do to ensure that all children have safe, healthy 
places to lives, learn, and play, to build a stronger, more 
sustainable economy, and to advance American innovation and 
ingenuity in ways we haven't seen. Put simply, investing in EPA 
is an investment in the health and the well-being of all of the 
communities we serve. It is also an investment in the economic 
vitality of our Nation.
    I have had the privilege to visit many communities in your 
States and see firsthand the environmental and public health 
challenges that many of your constituents continue to 
experience, from unprecedented flood experiences to crumbling 
water infrastructure. I have spoken with mothers whose children 
have been lead poisoned. I have met with people who are living 
with toxic waste in their backyards, and I have seen conditions 
that are simply unacceptable in the United States of America. 
From investing in our Nation's climate resilience to cleaning 
up contaminated land, there is no shortage of critical work 
that needs to be done.
    Members of the committee, EPA is up to the task, and we are 
ready to partner with you. We are eager to work with all of you 
to deliver for our fellow Americans and to secure our Nation's 
global competitiveness, but we need your support. Both the 
urgency and economic opportunity presented by the climate 
change crisis require that we leave no stone unturned. The 
fiscal year 2023 budget invests $773 million towards tackling 
the climate crisis and reaping the benefits that come with 
that: healthier communities, good-paying jobs, and increased 
energy security.
    The communities hit hardest by pollution and climate change 
are most often communities of color, indigenous communities, 
our rural communities, and economically-disadvantaged 
communities. For generations, many of these vulnerable 
communities have been overburdened with higher instances of 
pollution in their air, water, and land. This inequity of 
environmental protection is not just an environmental justice 
issue, but it is also civil right concern. In the fiscal year 
2023 budget, EPA will expand upon the historic investments made 
in environmental justice and civil rights to reduce the 
historically-disproportionate health impacts of pollution in 
communities with environmental justice concerns.
    Across the budget, EPA is investing more than $1.4 billion 
to advance environmental justice, clean up legacy pollution, 
and create good-paying jobs in the process in those 
communities. Across the country, poor air quality affects 
millions of people, perpetuating harmful health and economic 
impacts. For the fiscal year 2023 budget, the Agency will 
protect our air quality by cutting emissions of ozone-forming 
pollutants, particulate matter, and air toxics. The President's 
budget also includes $1.1 billion to improve air quality and 
set standards that reduce pollution from mobile and stationary 
sources.
    A thriving economy also requires clean and safe water for 
all. Although progress has been made, many still lack access to 
healthy water, face inadequate wastewater infrastructure, and 
suffer from the effects of lead pipes. America's water systems 
are also facing new challenges, including cybersecurity 
threats, climate change, and emerging contaminants like PFAs. 
The fiscal year 2023 budget positions EPA to create durable 
environmental policy that sets our Nation on a path to win the 
21st century. It will allow us to meet the pressing needs faced 
by millions of Americans and fundamentally improve people's 
lives for the better.
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here today and offer 
this testimony, and I look forward to our continued 
partnership, and I look forward to the conversation that we are 
going to have today.
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    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much for your opening remarks, 
and thank for your service. We are looking forward to 
discussing many topics with you today.
    I am going to start the questions myself, and I just want 
to dive right into something that is critically important to my 
State. I mentioned before that you were kind enough to come and 
visit in the State of Maine, and you joined with me in a really 
challenging meeting talking to people who are dealing with the 
front lines of the crisis around PFAS contamination, 
particularly in agricultural land in our State, but also in 
drinking water and beyond. This is a growing environmental 
crisis for us, and I imagine this is going on in many other 
States, but perhaps it is undetected. We continue to learn more 
about these chemicals' health effects, and more Americans are 
becoming deeply concerned that their families could be at 
serious risk.
    Along with the billions provided in the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act, this subcommittee has provided 
significant resources to address PFAS. I was pleased to see 
that the budget request builds on this funding and continues a 
strong focus on PFAS research and regulatory action. Can you 
talk about that a little bit, give us some more insight into 
the EPA's current and future work on this very complicated set 
of chemicals, and also give us some ideas of how that work ties 
into the Agency's PFAS strategic roadmap.
    Mr. Regan. Absolutely, and first and foremost, Chair 
Pingree, thank you for inviting me to your district to have 
that important conversation. I think my decisions have been 
shaped by my personal experiences as the secretary in North 
Carolina dealing with the PFAS crisis. And the roundtable that 
you and I had and the roundtables that I have held really are 
informing this sense of urgency around these forever chemicals. 
So we are taking action.
    In October of last year, I announced a PFAS strategic 
roadmap which lays an all-of-the-above, comprehensive approach 
across all of EPA's media offices. Since I have announced that 
group, we have taken action. We started a rulemaking 
designating PFOA and PFAS as a hazardous substance under the 
Superfund law. We are developing a national PFAS testing 
strategy under TSCA to deepen our understanding of the impacts 
of categories of PFAS, including potential hazards to both our 
health, but also our environment. We have also started a 
rulemaking to establish a national primary drinking water 
regulation for PFOA and PFAS that would set enforceable limits. 
And finally, we have finalized a rule to undertake nationwide 
monitoring of PFAS in our drinking water.
    I think it is important for me to also say that we 
understand that the conditions on the ground differ in the 
States and that we serve an important role in setting a health 
baseline and a better understanding. But a majority of the 
resources that EPA receives in our budget is passed through to 
the States so that they can develop specific strategies on the 
ground that are more protective to their communities. So I 
would hate for anyone to walk away and look at these budget 
requests as EPA inflating itself or growing tremendously. A 
good portion of these resources go to our State partners who 
know their communities better than we ever could.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah. Thank you so much for emphasizing that 
because I do think that is a really critical point, and I know 
our States greatly benefit and really appreciate the way the 
funding is structured so that they can make the decisions for 
their own States about the most critical issues. I will yield 
back my time and happy to recognize the ranking member for his 
questions.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Administrator 
Regan, I am supportive, as I am sure you are, of advancing 
domestic recycling efforts, especially for metal, given the 
environmental and economic benefits. Recycling scrap metal 
helps reduce pollution, limit waste, and reuse materials. Does 
the EPA support scrap metal recycling, and is the Agency 
supportive of advancements in metal recycling technology 
applications, more specifically, metal shredder plants?
    Mr. Regan. You know, we definitely embrace recycling, and 
we actually have invested a lot more time and resources to 
support and focus on recycling within this administration. So 
we recognize that if we can create some closed-loop systems in 
our economy, that we can protect against having to mine for 
precious metals any more than we have to, we can also create 
efficiencies in our economy. So, yes, recycling is a top-of-
mind issue for this Agency, and we are investing the resources 
in it to ensure that we understand how we can tackle these 
problems.
    Mr. Joyce. Does the EPA understand the necessity of metal 
shredding plants with respect to infrastructure, both as a 
processor of obsolete infrastructure, like bridges, roads, et 
cetera, and as a provider of raw materials to steel mills and 
foundries?
    Mr. Regan. We absolutely do, and that is why we are 
covering as much material and reducing as much waste as 
possible as a key part of the way we are looking at, not only 
improving our economy, but also improving, as you say, and 
strengthening our infrastructure.
    Mr. Joyce. Well, if vehicle and appliance shredding plants, 
including plants that use the latest pollution controls, are 
prohibited from operating what does the EPA believe will happen 
to the roughly 15 million vehicles that reach the end of their 
life annually? Also, where will the steel industry source the 
raw materials it needs to continue production and meet demand? 
The only alternatives I am aware of are more mining or sourcing 
recycled steel from foreign countries, like China. In your 
opinion, are those desirable solutions?
    Mr. Regan. I think the desirable solutions are for the 
opportunities to let recycling facilities work to their 
potential to continue to increase, again, in economic 
development and jobs, and contributing to our modern 
infrastructure. Obviously, any of these facilities, whether it 
be recycling, or whether it be a petrochemical plant or any 
plant, we believe should be properly placed in any kind of 
situation where there aren't disproportionate impacts to any 
communities, especially communities that are already 
disproportionately impacted by other facilities and operations. 
And so, yes, there is a role for recycling facilities. We 
firmly support that, but those facilities have to be put in a 
place where they don't exacerbate or create hazard and harm.
    Mr. Joyce. So, I take it from your answer then, you are 
willing to work with the metal recycling industry given their 
contribution to the administration's infrastructure and 
circular economy goals.
    Mr. Regan. I think this Agency has done that. I think we 
have worked with recycling facilities all around the country. I 
think that, you know, it is our job to be sure that we balance 
environmental protection, public health protection, and 
economic prosperity, and we are working hard to do that as 
really good partners and honest brokers in that situation.
    Mr. Joyce. I recognize that environmental justice is a key 
priority for the administration and your Agency. I also 
recognize the importance of balancing environmental justice 
with beneficial economic and environmental opportunities in 
these impacted communities. For this administration, are 
environmental justice concerns always going to take precedence 
over established zoning policies in most major cities, which 
seek to locate businesses in proximity to others of a similar 
nature?
    Mr. Regan. You know, our goal is to really partner with our 
governors, our State secretaries of health and environment, and 
our locally-elected officials. It is my goal to work as the 
administrator to provide technical support and resources so 
that communities, mayors, county commissioners, economic 
developers, State secretaries, can make the best decisions that 
they believe are appropriate for their communities. We have 
done a good job of that, and I hope that we can continue to do 
that. I want to be able to provide the technical assistance and 
resources to locally-elected officials so that they can make 
the best decisions for their constituents.
    Mr. Joyce. In what cases should the longstanding industrial 
nature of certain urban areas be taken into account on equal 
footing with residential uses that arose later in these areas?
    Mr. Regan. You know, I think it is an opportunity for us to 
really take a look at how we invest in our economy and the 
growth of businesses without it being at the expense of any one 
community. My attitude towards this is that there are lots of 
ample opportunities for job growth and economic development, 
but it doesn't have to come at the expense of any one 
community. So where we see disproportionate impact, predatory 
behavior, we look at the sound science. We look at the facts. 
We look at the impacts on humans, and then we can govern 
ourselves accordingly. There are lots of ways we can situate 
facilities in this country so that we can be globally 
competitive, and we want to be a partner with the business 
community to choose the right places to do that.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you. I appreciate your time, and, Madam 
Chair, I yield back what time I have left. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. You can always have all the time 
you ever want. So, Mr. Harder, you are next for questions.
    Mr. Harder. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Chair Pingree, 
and thank you, Administrator Regan, for being here today. I 
look forward to discussing how we can keep toxic chemicals out 
of our community drinking water systems.
    In my district in the California Central Valley, the City 
of Manteca is dealing with an ongoing contamination of the 
carcinogenic 123 trichloride propane, noticed as TCP, in its 
water system. In Manteca, the TCP water contamination was 
caused by the soil fumigants manufactured by Shell Oil Company 
and Dow Chemical Company. California currently regulates TCP 
because it causes cancer, but the EPA has failed to regulate it 
on its primary drinking water contaminate list. For decades, 
the EPA has declined to seriously regulate TCP. With the EPA's 
budget of over $2.8 billion for clean drinking water, why has 
the EPA failed to act on regulating or removing TCP from 
vulnerable public water systems, like the one in Manteca?
    Mr. Regan. You know, I think we are taking a very strong 
look at all of the threats to our drinking water, whether they 
be some of the traditional contaminants that you have raised or 
some of the new emerging contaminants. It is no secret that 
this Agency was underfunded during the last administration, 
and, quite frankly, funding has been low for a number of years. 
So we are really seeking the resources that we are asking for 
for a reason, and that is so that we can do more, and so that 
we can move faster.
    Our scientists are ready, our programs are ready to take 
aggressive action to do the proper analytics required to 
protect public health. And unfortunately, we have had to rely a 
lot on State leadership because, traditionally, this Agency 
hasn't had the resources to do the technical analysis that we 
need to move as quickly on all the rules that people have 
raised to us. And so I will take this back to my team to take a 
look at where this regulation fit in terms of our analysis, but 
we have a lot of challenging issues before us, and that is why 
we are asking for these resources, these precious resources, so 
that EPA could be equal footing to protect our public.
    Mr. Harder. Administrator, the March 2021 final regulatory 
determinations for the fourth drinking water contaminant 
candidate list said it needed more data as an excuse for why 
TCP was not regulated at the Federal level. That doesn't make a 
whole lot of sense to me because many States--California, New 
Jersey, Hawaii--are successfully measuring and regulating TCP 
today. Do you believe that TCP should be regulated by the U.S. 
EPA?
    Mr. Regan. You know, I think our scientists have said, 
correctly so, that States can move faster in some instances 
than the Federal Government. We take very serious our 
regulatory role, and when we set a regulation, we are 
responsible for setting a national regulation for 50 States. We 
have to take those 50 or so States in account. And so this is 
why we have strong partnerships with our States where in some 
States where we see certain vulnerabilities, States can move 
faster, and they are doing a good job of protecting their 
communities. In other States, there may not be that looming 
threat. And so we try to prioritize these regulatory 
approaches, and that is why you are seeing us approach this 
issue in the way that we are.
    We want to collect all of the data needed to set a Federal 
regulation that would be appropriate for the Nation, while also 
complementing the regulations that many States decide to move 
forward on quicker and faster than the Federal Government can.
    Mr. Harder. Thank you. I think the determinant a year ago 
was mistake, and I would really encourage the EPA to look at 
this contaminant seriously. One more question. With EPA's 
budget on civil enforcement of polluters, can you talk about 
the EPA's plan to hold these large oil and chemical companies 
accountable for the contamination and removal of TCP from the 
water systems that they have contaminated over decades?
    Mr. Regan. Well, I think you will notice in this budget 
that, again, we are making a plea to get the resources we need. 
We have lost tremendous resources on the enforcement side, and 
I think a lot of our staff, quite frankly, are coming out of a 
COVID posture. We are ramping up the enforcement mechanisms 
where we believe it makes the most sense, but we are woefully 
understaffed. And so in this budget, you will see that 
enforcement is a strong tool that I believe should be used 
where appropriate, but in order to use the tool appropriately, 
we need to have the appropriate number of inspectors and folks 
that can actually do the work. You are seeing a budget request 
in there for 2023.
    We did not get the resources that we asked for in 2022. We 
are hoping to get it in 2023. But if we want to see more 
enforcement of the laws that are on the books in a responsible 
way, we have to have the resources to do it.
    Mr. Harder. Thank you for your answers. I hope we can work 
together on removing TCP and other toxins from our water 
systems as well as making sure that we are holding the feet to 
the fire of the folks who contributed to the situation we are 
dealing with in many communities like mine. Thank you.
    Mr. Regan. Absolutely. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much. Mr. Simpson, do you have 
questions this morning?
    Mr. Simpson. Certainly. Thank you. Thank you, 
Administrator, for being here today and talking about some of 
the subjects. I look forward to the day when we can actually 
sit down and talk person-to-person and meet face-to-face and 
discuss some of these issues.
    There are a couple that I want to address. In this first 
round, I will deal with one of them. It is a never-ending 
debate that has been going on ever since I have been in 
Congress. It probably will be for the next 20 years. I hope 
not, but it is a constant concern that I hear about from my 
farmers, and ranchers, and businessowners across Idaho and 
really across the country. It is about the extremely broad 
definition of ``waters of the United States,'' or WOTUS, under 
the Clean Water Act.
    Considering there is a case related to the scope of the 
Clean Water Act pending before the Supreme Court, and this case 
is expected to address Federal jurisdiction under WOTUS, it 
seems only logical that the EPA would hold off finalizing the 
rule until the Supreme Court has decided this case. However, in 
front of the Senate EPW Committee just a few weeks ago, you 
stated that the EPA will forge ahead with rulemaking despite a 
pending case. Now, you talked about the resources that you need 
and so forth and talked about the previous administration's 
underfunding. I suspect that means the previous chairmen of the 
Appropriations Committee, me being one of them and some others. 
What we tried to do is right-size the EPA budget, not underfund 
it.
    But this is an example of why is the EPA wasting critical 
staff time and resources rushing through a rulemaking that the 
Supreme Court is going to reconsider in just a few months 
anyway? This is some of the questions we have about how the EPA 
spends their money, and maybe that is why some of the budgets 
haven't been as robust in the past as you would like. Could you 
address that for me?
    Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question, and, yes, you know, 
I was just in North Carolina with USDA agriculture Secretary 
Tom Vilsack spending time with farmers and ranchers talking 
about this very issue, and here is the reality. We proposed a 
rule last year that basically takes the rule back to pre-2015 
decisions prior to President Obama's WOTUS interpretation and 
prior to President Trump's interpretation. What farmers and 
ranchers have told me on the ground is that they need some 
regulatory certainty, and despite the Trump and Obama 
administrations, there are still decisions that are being made 
that have farmers or ranchers in limbo.
    So what we have decided to do is move very pragmatically 
and say let's go back to pre-2015 before the last two rules 
were put into place. Let's try to codify some decisions that 
the Supreme Court has already spoken to, and let's box in some 
of the exemptions and exclusions that farmers and ranchers need 
right now. We know that there is a Supreme Court case pending. 
That Supreme Court case will address some aspects of WOTUS, but 
it won't address all. It won't provide some of the certainty 
that we believe our farmers need sooner rather than later 
because they are making decisions right now.
    We also believe that if we move forward, and we have done a 
lot of listening to our ranches and farmers. As a matter of 
fact, we are now going through 10 roundtables that we are 
hosting all across the country, being hosted by our farmers and 
ranchers, in my home State of North Carolina, being hosted by 
the Farm Bureau, because we are continuing to collect 
information and data. Decisions are being made right now. 
Farmers and ranchers need certainty. We believe we can put a 
strong rule in place if we finalize it in a way that will 
complement and be situated to move forward after we hear from 
the Supreme Court.
    So we have to walk and chew gum at the same time. I don't 
believe that it is a waste of staff time. I believe that we 
have engaged with farmers and ranchers, asked CEOs all across 
this country for over a year, and we want to make good on the 
promise that we have made, which is providing a durable rule 
that will give them some regulatory certainty sooner rather 
than later.
    Mr. Simpson. Well, I appreciate that answer. I wish my 
ranchers, and farmers, and others felt the same way. They feel 
like they are being left out in this rulemaking process. And 
you are right, it is certainty that they want. And going back 
to the pre-2015 rule, that was the problem. It was the 
uncertainty that was created. That is why the courts have ruled 
twice you need to rewrite this rule to create some certainty in 
it so that people know what they are doing. And it just seems 
like writing a new rule in the midst of all this uncertainty 
before the Supreme Court rules seems premature now. I mean, you 
are going to spend time and money on this. I suspect whatever 
the Supreme Court decides, unless you have some pre-knowledge 
of what the Court is going to say, that you are going to have 
to adjust the rule whatever it is that you write.
    It just seems like we are out of step here in trying to do 
this, but I appreciate your comments. I appreciate what you are 
trying to do. It is a frustrating problem for all of us, that 
we ought to be able to come up to a conclusion. I have kind of 
come to the conclusion, no matter what rule we write, we are 
going to get sued. There are going to be more challenges. I 
don't know if this is an ever-ending process, and it is 
frustrating as hell.
    Mr. Regan. Well, and Congressman, I really appreciate their 
perspective, and I think you are right. There is a level of 
frustration that we all share. And I can tell you in all 
earnestness in the conversations we are having, continuing to 
move forward, whether we finalize or not before the Supreme 
Court ruling, to continue to move forward, we believe that 
there is a lot of good work that has been done, and we respect 
the Supreme Court's jurisdiction obviously. And we believe our 
rule will be in position to respond and adjust to the Supreme 
Court ruling in a way that this process will be more advanced. 
So as soon as the Supreme Court speaks, we will have the 
process advanced enough so that will be providing those farmers 
and ranchers certainty sooner than we would otherwise.
    If we stopped right now, if we discontinued the 
conversations, if we discontinued the roundtables, we are going 
to lose a lot of ground, and we won't be poised for success 
after the Supreme Court rules, so we are trying to balance that 
and thread that needle. But I can assure you it is in the 
effort to provide a durable rule and certainty to our farmers 
and ranchers.
    I come from an agricultural State of North Carolina. I have 
spent a lot of time on this issue. I spent time trying to 
interpret the Obama rule when I was a State secretary, and I 
spent time trying to prepare for the Trump rule. And I can tell 
you on the ground, neither will provided that certainty that 
our farmers and ranchers are looking for, and they were very 
hard to administer because of the uncertainty. So I am very 
sensitive to these needs, and I am very sensitive to our 
farmers and ranchers, and I hope we can continue work together 
on this.
    Mr. Simpson. Well, I appreciate that, and I would invite 
you to come to Idaho and sit down with a roundtable of people 
who have concerns about this and explain that to them and 
stuff. And I would love to have you do that. Maybe we can set 
something like that up. I will save my next round of inquiry 
for the next round of questions, and I yield back, Chairwoman 
Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Thank you. Thank you, both of you, on 
that important topic.
    Mr. Cartwright, you are next. Excuse me. Good morning, 
Chair Cartwright.
    Mr. Cartwright. Yes, I was highly offended, Chair Pingree. 
[Laughter.]
    Mr. Cartwright. Good morning, Chair Pingree, and all of the 
intrepid members of the Interior Subcommittee of 
Appropriations, and, Administrator Regan, great to have you 
with us this morning. Congratulations on making Mike Simpson 
smile before 10:00 in the morning. That is an accomplishment. 
[Laughter.]
    Mr. Cartwright. Mr. Regan, as you may know, I am from 
Northeastern Pennsylvania, and my district lies within the 
Chesapeake Bay watershed for the most part. Millions of people 
in my district depend on that watershed. Millions of people in 
Chesapeake depend on the watershed for drinking water, jobs, 
seafood, recreation, lots more. But for years, as all of us 
know, the Bay was too dirty to swim or fish in, and eventually 
the Federal Government stepped in to limit the pollution 
running off into the Bay.
    Now, we Pennsylvanians are proud of our natural resources. 
We care about keeping them healthy, and we want our families to 
have access to clean drinking water. We want to be able to fish 
and swim safely in our streams, our creeks, our rivers. We want 
to leave a legacy of clean water for generations to come, but 
here is the thing. Cleaning up dirty water is not easy. It 
costs money to update our stormwater infrastructure and keep 
pollution out of our waterways. And for too long, homeowners 
and businesses in my district have been footing the bill for 
this work. We are talking about all kinds of people, including 
retired senior citizens on fixed incomes footing the bill for 
stormwater infrastructure improvements. Now, making local 
communities shoulder that burden alone to restore the watershed 
is not a fair solution, and it is not sustainable.
    So since joining this subcommittee, I have fought to 
increase investments in stormwater programs and secure 
Northeastern Pennsylvania's fair share of these Federal 
dollars, and here is the question, Administrator Regan. How is 
the EPA supporting communities in their efforts to address 
stormwater runoff?
    Mr. Regan. Well, thank you for the question, Congressman. 
And, you know, I couldn't agree with you more, and I believe 
that that is why the President was so focused on the $50 
billion provided by the bipartisan infrastructure law because 
we are seeing the stormwater issues all across the country, and 
we know that towns, cities, and localities should not bear the 
brunt for paying for these. We are looking for the opportunity 
to apply bill dollars all across the country for stormwater--
$50 billion for stormwater, wastewater, a number of our 
infrastructure needs--and we know that that is not enough 
resources, right, which is why in this budget, you will see the 
modest request that we are proposing so that we can help 
communities just like the one you just identified.
    Stormwater is so important because not only do we want to 
prevent the runoff into our precious waters, like the 
Chesapeake Bay, but we want to prevent these flooding and these 
economic disasters that we are seeing from climate change, and 
stormwater plays such a critical role. So, yes, we know that 
the resources were requesting for this budget, coupled with the 
bipartisan infrastructure law resources, will help communities 
just like yours all across the country.
    Mr. Cartwright. Thank you. You mentioned the IIJA, and in 
that, we have the Clean Water State Revolving Fund, and I am 
sure that is what you are referring to. As you know, Congress 
recently made the single largest investment in water in our 
Nation's history with the IIJA. That law provided $11.7 billion 
to the clean water state revolving fund alone. Can you talk 
briefly about opportunities for stormwater management projects 
under this Clean Water State Revolving Fund investment?
    Mr. Regan. There are absolutely tremendous opportunities 
there. I will say that of the $50 billion awarded to EPA, we 
all know that they are probably about $720 to $750 billion of 
infrastructure needs as it relates to water infrastructure. So 
we do have a good shot in the arm through our State revolving 
funds. We also have a few other financial resources that we can 
leverage through programs at EPA that will really come from 
some of the resources we are requesting from our budget, and 
that is the EPA Water Infrastructure and Resiliency Finance 
Center to help us think through how we make smart investments 
and leverage those resources. Green streets, green jobs, green 
towns grants, there are some grant mechanisms that we believe 
we can add to this mix that complement some of the solutions on 
the ground we are hearing from communities like yours. And then 
there are some other financing opportunities.
    We are going to have to couple together all of EPA's 
financing resources to solve this problem sooner rather than 
later. It is about preventing runoff. It is about preventing 
flooding. It is about creating jobs, and it is also about the 
economic vitality of our communities. We should not continue to 
rebuild our communities in the same way and only have our 
businesses shut down and public health threatened, because we 
can predict some of this. And stormwater runoff is a 
significant contributor to that success.
    Mr. Cartwright. Thank you, Mr. Regan. I look forward to 
working with you on that. I yield back, Chair Pingree.
    Mr. Cartwright. Thank you. Representative Lee, do you have 
questions this morning?
    Mrs. Lee. I do. Thank you, Chair Pingree and Ranking Member 
Joyce. Also, it is great to see you, Administrator. You serve 
such a pivotal role right now at this time for our country and 
our planet, and EPA's budget request cites compelling and clear 
evidence of the changes to our climate reflected in rising 
temperatures, droughts, heatwaves, and wildfires. I come from 
Nevada, and clearly we have seen this evidence firsthand with 
the worst drought in 1,200 years.
    Administrator, the WaterSense Labeling Program is a public/
private partnership that is designed to make or to encourage 
users to save water choosing water-efficient products and 
services. And we have seen the difference that this product can 
make in drought-impacted communities just like mine. Just to 
give you a sense of how dire the situation is, just this week, 
the water levels in Lake Meade became so low that one of the 
intakes responsible for supplying the entire Las Vegas Valley 
with water is now visible above the lake surface, so this is 
long past an emergency. So I am asking can you commit to 
continuing EPA's longstanding support for the effective and 
empowering Water Sense Program?
    Mr. Regan. Absolutely, and I appreciate you recognizing 
this program. This is a great example these resources that we 
get or asking for from you. Water Sense is a public/private 
partnership, and it is also one of the best programs that 
highlights community solutions. So we absolutely want to 
continue to partner with you. It is a great way to show how the 
government, and our corporate citizens, and our communities can 
work together to provide local solutions.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you. And I just want to ask, could you 
speak more broadly on how the EPA is going to use the 
infrastructure bill to address the unique water infrastructure 
needs in the Nevada and the West?
    Mr. Regan. One of the great parts about the bipartisan 
infrastructure law, again, it doesn't inflate EPA in terms of 
flooding us with resources. It gives us the resources to pass 
through to the States. And that flexibility is so important 
because, as you know, the conditions in North Carolina are very 
different than the conditions in your State. And we know that 
there are members of your community and there are elected 
officials that have solutions that are ready to go. And so what 
we want to be able to do is pass through these precious 
resources so that we can hit the ground running. We should not 
provide academic solutions from here in Washington, DC. We need 
to get the resources into your communities' hands to solve some 
of these problems. I think water reuse, water efficiency, on-
the-ground solutions that many of your stakeholders are already 
putting in motion need additional resources because we don't 
have a moment to lose.
    Mrs. Lee. Absolutely, and I must say that our local water 
authority has done an incredible job at conservation. I want to 
turn to hard rock mining. The administration released the 
Fundamental Principles for or Domestic Mining Reform, 
highlighting 500,000 legacy mining sites in the Western U.S. 
alone, and calling on Congress to formalize and fund a durable 
program to remediate these sites as well as provide some legal 
certainty for Good Samaritans working to remain remediate 
legacy pollution. The Nevada Division of Minerals estimated 
that there are some 300,000 abandoned mine features just in my 
home State alone. Meanwhile, the administration has recognized 
that there is not one single Federal agency with the authority 
over domestic mining.
    Could you discuss EPA's perspective and role in 
facilitating the cleanup of legacy mines?
    Mr. Regan. Absolutely. We know that these mines pose 
significant risk to human health and the environment. And while 
the Department of Interior is the principal land management 
agency, we also recognize that we have a role to play. So to 
the point you just made, it requires partnership. Through EPA's 
Abandoned Mine Lands Program, we are partnered with DOI and 
other Federal agencies and coordinating with the States and 
tribes on the ground to provide technical expertise in research 
cleanup, and the redevelopment of these legacy mines. So, you 
know, we know that we have an important role. We are sort of 
following the Department of Interior's lead, but we understand 
the severity that this poses to human health, and we are doing 
everything we can to accommodate this mission.
    That can be accomplished through many of the resources we 
are asking for via this budget, but we know, as you raised, it 
is a significant issue. And so we are going to leverage the 
bipartisan infrastructure law resources to help expedite some 
of this cleanup as well through our Superfund program.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you. I am running out of time. I just sort 
of want to put a plug also for EPA's support for the Good 
Samaritan cleanup as well, so I would love to follow up with 
you on that. Thank you, and I yield the time I don't have. 
Thanks.
    Ms. Pingree. You are welcome to all the time you did not 
have, and thank you for your questions.
    Mr. Kilmer.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks, Mr. 
Administrator, for being with us today. I really appreciate the 
work that you and your team do, and, in particular, I just want 
to praise and thank you for the work that the EPA does in 
protecting and restoring Puget Sound. As you likely know, Puget 
Sound is our Nation's largest estuary by volume. It is the 
center of Washington State's economic engine. It is a place 
where generations of Washingtonians and Native Americans have 
built their lives and made their livelihoods. It is really 
important to our economy through jobs in fishing, and shellfish 
harvesting, and maritime industries. On top of that, there are 
19 Federally-recognized tribes that have made Puget Sound their 
home since time immemorial, including 17 with tribal treaty 
rights, to harvest fish and shellfish. And as a consequence, 
the Federal Government has a trust responsibility to support 
Puget Sound recovery and uphold those treaty rights. That is, 
in my view, a critical environmental justice issue.
    Here is the problem. We have a really sick body of water, 
and the EPA's role in this, I think, is just profoundly 
important. I think now, more than ever, there is a real 
opportunity for Congress and for your Agency to take action to 
protect the Sound for future generations. Look, we know that 
investing in restoring Puget Sound by addressing everything 
from persistent flooding and stormwater runoff to improving 
nearshore habitat, and removing culverts that affect water 
quality and fish passage, all of that is essential for 
increasing climate resilience, for restoring salmon runs, and 
for creating good jobs. So first, I want to extend to you an 
invitation to come out and visit the Puget Sound region and to 
see firsthand the urgency and importance of protecting Puget 
Sound. The weather is particularly nice in the summer, so I 
would love to have you visit.
    But I am also hoping you can just speak to some of the 
opportunities you see to strengthen the EPA's partnership role 
in Puget Sound, including funding for the Puget Sound 
Geographic Program.
    Mr. Regan. Well, number one, I thank you for your 
leadership on the Puget Sound. I think with the resources that 
you all have really fought hard for in our geographic programs, 
they are making a tremendous difference, you know for all of 
our national treasures, but especially for the Puget Sound. And 
I appreciate you highlighting the fact that this is a perfect 
example of tourism, jobs, the economy, ecosystem protection, 
public health protection, the impacts of climate change. All of 
these things converge together, and we want to work very 
diligently with you on solutions.
    I believe that our work with the Puget Sound Partnership 
State agencies, and tribes, and others has supported gains in a 
comprehensive regional plan to restore the Sound, leveraging 
over $1 billion for recovery. We partner with 19, as you say, 
federally-recognized tribes and an international collaboration 
with Canada. I think taking that international approach is so 
critical, but also the nation-to-nation relationship rebuilding 
with those tribes really helps us to understand, you know, 
exactly what approaches we take and why we take them. There are 
cultural reasons that our partners want this work done. There 
are health reasons. There are economic reasons. We have seen a 
net increase of over 6,000 acres of shellfish beds and over 
41,000 acres of habitat protected or restored by the 
partnership we have already started.
    So the goal for us is to keep the pedal to the metal, 
continue to strengthen our partnerships, and we can do that 
because of the resources you have already invested, but we need 
more. As you said, this is a sick body of water. We have a lot 
of work to do, but we are ready to do that work.
    Mr. Kilmer. I am really pleased to hear you say that. I 
think these investments do pay off, and I also appreciate your 
just acknowledgement that this requires a coordinated approach 
that includes strong Federal investment but also partnership 
alongside State and tribal efforts. In that regard, that is 
actually why I introduced a bill called the Puget SOS Act, 
which certainly it is funding, but also establishing a Puget 
Sound recovery national program office in the EPA and codifying 
the Puget Sound Federal Leadership Task Force that was set up 
under the Obama administration. That would ensure that the 
Federal Government steps up to assist with the regional efforts 
that are required to save our Sound and to resource salmon and 
orca populations, and ensure future generations have access to 
these same economic opportunities, and uphold tribal treaty 
rights.
    The bill did pass the House on suspension last year, and I 
certainly hope I can count on your partnership and support for 
hopefully getting it across the finish line this Congress.
    Mr. Regan. You can absolutely count on our partnership. As 
a former State regulator, listen, I really, really, really 
respect cooperative federalism. I know what can be done on the 
State level if you have a strong Federal partnership, and I 
know that things can't be done if you don't have a strong 
Federal partnership. So I take this role very serious, and I 
understand what the States need, what the tribes need, and we 
cannot do this alone. So, yes, you have our strong partnership 
and commitment to continuing to work across the State, Federal, 
and tribal boundaries.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Mr. Administrator, and thank you, 
Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you. Chair McCollum, do you have some 
questions this morning?
    Ms. McCollum. Yes. Yes, I do. First, welcome, 
Administrator. Welcome to the Interior Subcommittee. And I just 
want to say that because of the work and leadership of Chair 
Pingree, we were able to have increases to the important work 
you do in the Environmental Protection Agency, and we look 
forward to funding that work into the future because you 
provide human health and a healthy environment, and that is 
important to the success of our national security, and it is 
also important to family and personal security, too. So thank 
you for your work.
    I am going to ask you a question about some budgetary 
needs, but first I want to touch on something that has been a 
strategy that I have been working with the committee on, and it 
has to do with the Mississippi River. The subcommittee directed 
the EPA to develop a strategy for fiscal year 2021 in a report. 
Could you please tell me where we are in this process with the 
Mississippi River restoration and resilience strategy?
    Mr. Regan. Absolutely. We are so eager to work with you on 
a Mississippi River restoration strategy. We have actually 
turned in our homework to the Office of Management and Budget. 
We believe that we put forward a very, very strong strategy. We 
are waiting for them to grade our homework, and once they get 
it back to me, I look forward to sharing with you what that 
product looks like and where we go from there.
    Ms. McCollum. Well, everybody has invited you to their 
districts, so I am happy to invite you to the headwaters, but I 
will include the rest of the Mississippi River down to the Gulf 
in Louisiana, to look at some of the work that we can do 
together on that and protect this great working river, and the 
habitat, and the communities that live alongside of it. Given 
your background in North Carolina, you are very familiar with 
what this Agency needs to do to address PFAS. The Agency's 
Strategic Road Map says by the end of 2021 that the Agency was 
going to issue orders to companies to require them to provide 
information about the health effects of some of these 
substances, information we currently do not have, and I think 
all of us on the committee, but especially the chair, know we 
need to have ASAP.
    So we are hearing that there are some delays in getting the 
Toxic Substance Control Act back on track from the previous 
administration. It is a vital important gatekeeper in 
preventing the next set of dangerous chemicals, like PFAS, from 
getting into commerce without first taking steps to make sure 
that they are saved. So what can you tell us about these 
delays? What are you doing to address them? What can we do to 
help you address them? And, you know, we just want to make sure 
that the EPA is going to be able to do its TSCA reviews and 
prioritize them in a timely fashion to protect the most 
vulnerable populations, and that includes the children here in 
the United States.
    Mr. Regan. Absolutely, and I think that the new TSCA law is 
a great example of a bipartisan approach to some of the most 
dangerous chemicals in this country. Unfortunately, during the 
previous administration, after TSCA reform was put into place, 
the previous administration didn't ask for any resources and 
didn't put a plan in place to implement the law as you all 
dictated, which is why this agency has missed 9 of the first 10 
chemical risk evaluation deadlines. We walked into a situation 
where the Agency actually was not funded to do the work that 
Congress asked us to do. And so that is why we only right now 
have about 50 percent of what we think we need to review the 
safety of new chemicals as quickly as possible, not only to 
follow the law that Congress has asked, but that the private 
sector wants to see so that we can get things moving and put 
the right replacement chemicals on the market.
    You see a very genuine budget request here for TSCA support 
and implementation. Congress has given us the marching orders. 
We don't have the resources to get the job done on time and on 
budget. And so we are asking for those resources so that we can 
make up for lost time and keep pace with a very strong law that 
you all have asked us to perform.
    Ms. McCollum. Well, I will speak for myself right now. You 
can count on me to do whatever I can to help you with that. As 
people are, you know, asking questions as to why you are behind 
in your homework--I am a former teacher--I can tell them you 
were never given the homework tools to complete the assignment. 
So we are going to right that wrong, and we are going to work 
with you on that. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much for your questioning. Chair 
Kaptur, do you have some questions this morning?
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you, Madam Chair, very much. Thank you 
for this great hearing, and I want to thank Administrator Regan 
for coming to Ohio to the heart of the industrial Midwest and 
for making that trip on such a cold, cold windy day. Thank you 
very, very much, and I am glad to see you back in Washington. I 
just want you to know that the woman whose home you visited, 
Karen George, and the work of lead pipe removal has given new 
hope to that neighborhood where they actually were re-energized 
to work with their local organizations to try to get abandoned 
buildings ripped down and community gardens established. And so 
the lead pipe removal became a sign of hope for that area, Mr. 
Administrator, so know that I and they thank you very, very 
much, and you are always welcome here, always.
    Mr. Regan. Thank you.
    Ms. Kaptur. I wanted to turn to the bipartisan 
infrastructure law and its relationship to EPA. And we know 
that there was significant new funding in BIF for expanding 
alternative fuel infrastructure and alternative fuel vehicles, 
including natural gas vehicles. As part of these new programs, 
a lot of the funds will go to electric vehicles, but Congress 
also made sure that other low-emission and alternative fuel 
vehicles qualify for many of the new programs. In fact, we just 
had a situation where the labs at the Department of Energy 
cleared a Class 8 truck to come to Washington and go back, 
fueled completely 100 percent on ethanol.
    And so one of my questions is, how does the EPA and the 
administration plan to ensure that the intent to encourage a 
variety of alternative fuel vehicles is honored? And because I 
represent companies like Ford that makes the heavy trucks at 
Avon Lake, Ohio, I represent the Ford EcoBoost engine plant at 
Brook Part, Ohio, I represent the General Motors transmission 
facility which has had its employment cut by half because they 
make transmissions for conventional vehicles, and also the Jeep 
Wrangler plant at Toledo, their largest facility on the 
continent. So the automotive industry is at the heart of so 
much of our job base here and this transition will be difficult 
for the country and certainly for the people that I represent. 
So I am interested in alternatives, new technology, what EPA's 
role might be with the new infrastructure bill.
    And then secondly, I just want to make you conscious, not 
that you can do anything about this, but maybe you can be a 
voice inside the administration indirectly. I have come to 
learn that with this transition to new vehicles, I have gotten 
in a lot of garages where old vehicles are being repaired--
garbage trucks for cities, police cars, fire engines, the whole 
public fleet that exist, excavators, all this equipment that is 
out there--and the conditions in which the people who repair 
them work. And learning that, in fact, in places like Ohio--
maybe it is not true in other States--but we have a rampant 
pulmonary illness and lung cancers because of breathing in 
diesel emissions.
    There is no real voice for this because of the manner in 
which the repair work is fragmented across counties, cities, 
bus companies, transit authorities. It is very interesting. 
They work in these old crummy buildings, and in Ohio, I found 
out from the fighters, our firefighters are not even covered by 
OSHA. I couldn't believe it. I know that is not your job, but 
if you go to Cleveland, if you come to Toledo, I will take you 
to these garages. I have the county garages. It is very hard to 
get your arms around this, but we know we are 1 million 
mechanics short in our country today, and part of the reason is 
because the career has not been modernized in the sense of 
making sure that they work in safe facilities.
    I don't know what EPA can do about that. Maybe you can find 
out the best places in the country where this is occurring. 
Maybe we can work with the Labor Department and Education 
Department on a training program so that it is a respected 
profession and not just tangential. We are talking about a lot 
of people and young people that we want to attract to this 
field. And so I just wanted to point out that issue to you to 
how make it an environmentally clean profession. It is a 
dangerous profession, and so changing to a new energy age also 
means helping the people who will be doing the work, and there 
is not a focus. You can hardly find the word ``mechanic'' in 
the BIF, a thousand pages or whatever it is. They talk about 
workforce. Well, that is not enough. We have to care about the 
people and where they work, and maybe EPA could help us be a 
voice there.
    So thank you for listening, and my question goes back to 
what can we do with the infrastructure law, and what is your 
authority to ensure that we will have a variety of alternative 
fuel vehicles and that they are safe and clean?
    Mr. Regan. Well, thank you for that question, and I will 
definitely work with Labor and HHS and identify our role as we 
think about the safety of mechanics and those conditions.
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you.
    Mr. Regan. The president has said that we have to have a 
whole-of-government approach, and anytime we hear a question, 
we take it back to the team and we try to think about a 
solution, even if it doesn't fit neatly into one of our 
purviews. So I will take that back.
    More importantly, I think on the fuels piece, I have had a 
lot of conversations with Secretary Vilsack, and Secretary 
Buttigieg, and Secretary Granholm about the evolution of our 
technologies as we think about fuel choices. We know that 
electric vehicles are the future, but they are not going to be 
readily available for everyone tomorrow. We also know that our 
agriculture industry plays an important role in this 
transition. And so as we think about advanced technologies, we 
also think about advanced biofuels and advanced fuels, and so 
this transition we know will take place over time. There is a 
role for agriculture in that transition, we are really focused 
on making sure that that role is properly managed.
    The other thing that Secretary Vilsack often says and 
reminds me of this there is also a big play in our aviation 
fuel space as well. And so EPA, DOT, and the Department of 
Agriculture are thinking very seriously and strategically about 
the role of biofuels and advanced biofuels as we advance our 
transportation sector, that being both, you know, vehicles, 
ground vehicles, and aviation vehicles as well.
    Ms. Kaptur. Mr. Administrator, thank you so very much. I 
just will say that the first biofuel plane flown by the 
National Guard in our country was flown out of our district 
almost 20 years ago and one of our little jets. And so the 
180th Fighter Wing Ohio distinguished itself. We even got on 
the cover of Buckeye Guard magazine and so forth. So it was a 
Guard unit. It wasn't active duty. It was a Guard unit. So they 
are out here in rural America and trying to make a difference. 
So maybe we will get you up in one of those planes sometime. 
[Laughter.]
    Ms. Kaptur. I love your energy. I love your positive 
attitude. All the best to you, and thank you so much for 
answering my questions today.
    Mr. Regan. Well, thank you, and I think you know, I come 
from a rural State, and I know that our agricultural economy is 
so vital to what this country is doing. The President pledged 
that agriculture will have a seat at the table, advanced 
biofuels would have a role in this low-carbon future, and we 
are going to keep that commitment.
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you so much, and you get that DOD 
involved. We had to drag them. Drag them. Believe me, they 
didn't even think about energy. It wasn't even on their mind. 
It was the Marine Corps that led the way because they were 
dying for it, so they understood the problem and resupply and 
so forth in theater. So, believe me, there are some folks over 
there that now do care.
    Mr. Regan. Well, if I might add--I know we are over time--
but I can tell you the relationship that I have with Secretary 
Austin I believe is historic, and I can tell you on climate 
change and on PFAS, I have had no stronger partner than 
Secretary Austin.
    Ms. Pingree. That is great. Well, thank you both for that 
exchange, and I am thrilled to know the first biofuel plane 
went up 20 years ago. We got some catch-up to do here. It seems 
like we should have figured that out a long time ago, but thank 
you both for that.
    And now we have an opportunity to ask a few more questions. 
Mr. Regan, if you have time, we would be happy to welcome 
questions from other members of the committee who want to take 
up another topic, and I will just start with myself.
    I am really pleased to see that for the first time, and it 
is sort of surprising it is the first time, but EPA's strategic 
plan includes a new goal focused specifically on addressing 
climate change. Clearly it is long overdue that that we have 
that focus, and I really look forward to supporting you and 
your work towards achieving the goal. So can you just describe 
a little bit how your budget request intends to achieve the 
goal and your focus on climate change?
    Mr. Regan. Absolutely, and this is a great way to sort of 
highlight how, you know, a lot of refer to them as regulations, 
but they are really technology standards. And Congress 
basically gave us an assignment to phase down 
hydrofluorocarbons. We proposed a rule and finalized that rule. 
We are working with the industry to reduce HFCs by 85 percent 
in 15 years, and do it in a way where we are transitioning our 
economy and asked for resources for technical expertise, and 
ability to continue to work with the private sector.
    When you look at our finalized rule for light duty 
vehicles, cars, and trucks, we did that in concert with the 
automobile industry, the UAW, and our unions, and we looked at 
what was technologically feasible to drive the economy in a way 
where we were reducing greenhouse gas emissions, but we are 
remaining globally competitive with our international 
competition. And we are also doing it and keeping those jobs 
right here at home. So our technology standards in our 
regulations to reduce climate, we believe we are doing a great 
job working with the industry.
    Look at our oil and gas sector, our methane regulations. We 
have proposed one of the most stringent regulations to reduce 
and capture methane that this country has ever seen, but it was 
done because API and the Chamber said we need some rules of 
engagement and rules of the road in how we are going to reduce 
that pollutant. I have worked very closely with the power 
sector and their CEOs to understand what technologies are 
available, what is cost effective. How do we capture those 
emissions, but equally as important, how do we capture that 
lost product because that product, that gas is valuable. So on 
cars, on methane, on hydrofluorocarbons, and we are also 
beginning to look at our power sector more holistically. We are 
convening meetings, putting strong regulations in place, and 
reducing the threat that climate change poses while continuing 
to create jobs and advance our economy.
    The last thing I will say is everything that we have done 
as it relates to climate change and the rules that we have 
proposed, has been done in a way to capture innovation, 
entrepreneurship, and remain globally competitive while we 
protect public health.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. That is really helpful to hear that 
description, and we certainly appreciate that lens that you 
have on it. You know, one other part of this, and I know you 
have brought it up, you know, in other questions, is just this 
whole-of-government approach, and I would love to hear more 
about how you are working with, you know, both the whole-of-
government at the Federal, but also tribal, State, local 
agencies, you know, just to make sure that there is a lot of 
coordination going on. That seems like an important role for 
your Agency.
    Mr. Regan. You know, just maybe a month ago, you know, our 
Environmental Council of States held a meeting in my home State 
of North Carolina. I met with, I believe, 45 of the 50 
environmental State commissioners of secretaries to talk about 
the appropriate relationship that Federal and States should 
have. We are also hosting a lot of conversations with our 
tribal sovereign governments as well and looking at how we do 
some Nation-to-nation partnership building. It is very 
important for me to stress that if we are going to achieve our 
goals, we have to have strong partnerships with our States and 
our tribes. We have to take advantage of the autonomy that they 
possess so that there can be creative solutions on the ground. 
That is extremely important.
    Equally as important is for me to have a strong 
relationship with Secretary Austin as we think about our 
national security as it relates to climate change, or how we 
think about contamination in water that has plagued our 
retirees, our veterans, and our soldiers for years just like 
some of our civilian communities, a strong relationship with 
Secretary Vilsack. There is a consternation around pesticides, 
herbicides, waters of the U.S. I cannot make these decisions in 
a vacuum. I have to consult with Secretary Vilsack. Marty Walsh 
on Labor. There are implications to our technology standards 
and regulations on economic development and job growth. 
Secretary Raimondo in Commerce, Marty Walsh in Labor, if we are 
not talking, we are not meeting the moment.
    So as we think about the bipartisan infrastructure law, as 
we think about these investments that we hopefully get from you 
all in Congress, we are leveraging all these resources to make 
sure the Federal Government is speaking in one voice and 
leveraging the partnership, the appropriate partnership, we 
should have with our State, tribal, and local officials.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Great. Thank you for that answer, and 
we really look forward to supporting you in that work.
    Ranking Member Joyce, would you like to have some more 
questions?
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, again, Chair Pingree. Administrator, 
does the administration's goal to limit emissions from mobile 
sources not dictate that recyclable materials should be 
transported the shortest distance possible from their point of 
origin to processing locations? And how can this goal coexist 
with the way EPA has interpreted and tried to implement 
environmental justice actions under this administration?
    Mr. Regan. Yeah, as I think we look at the holistic 
picture, yes, we want to limit emissions for climate reasons. 
We also want to limit emissions in terms of public health 
exposure, putting people first. I don't believe that they are 
false options. I believe that these goals can coexist. You 
know, one of the things that we would like to do is make sure 
that these facilities have the appropriate control technologies 
and measures so that they don't put their community members in 
danger. We also want to be realistic, though. Some of our 
communities in this country have been dumped on. Some 
communities have a disproportionate number and level of 
industrial processes, chemical manufacturers, coal plants, and 
it is unfair for any community, because of race, because of 
economic status, to have all of these polluting facilities 
located in just one area. We have to spread some of these 
things out. It is not that we have to go without. We just have 
to think more strategically about placement to ensure that all 
people are equally protected under the law.
    Mr. Joyce. When you opposed a particular scrap metal 
recycling permit application in Chicago, were you aware that 
the only other large metal shredding facility in the city was 
an environmental justice area that is more densely populated 
than the Southeast side? Were you aware that the other 
operation is located closer to schools and homes? And were you 
aware that this facility was operating and continues to operate 
without any of the pollution controls on its shredder?
    Mr. Regan. I was aware that this facility operated on the 
North side of town. It was a better-financed community, a 
community that had stronger representation from their elected 
officials, and that that facility was relocated because of 
persistent violations of the Clean Air Act and other 
violations. So the record wasn't strong. So when that facility 
moved from the North side of town to the Southeast side of town 
where those community members have been persistently dumped on, 
what EPA said was let's take a pause. I am not going to make 
the decision. The decision is the mayor's decision, but EPA 
will provide the mayor with the technical assistance needed to 
properly evaluate the health impacts.
    The city used those resources by EPA and HHS and came to 
the determination that there would be a disproportionate impact 
to that community. And with the track record that that company 
had for violating the law, I believe that the city made the 
proper determination that that was not an ideal location for 
that facility.
    Mr. Joyce. When you referred to the denial of such permit 
as ``environmental justice at work,'' were you aware of the 
fact that the overwhelming and admittedly conservative health 
impact assessment yielded results that were well within the 
EPA's benchmarks?
    Mr. Regan. I think when you take a look at the decision 
that the city made, I think the city made a decision that when 
you look at the cumulative impact of the disproportionate 
pollution that that community would bear, the city made the 
determination that permitting one more facility could 
potentially be that straw that breaks the camel's back for that 
community. Again, EPA's role was to provide technical 
assistance and resources to the city so that the city could 
make the proper determination.
    I believe that Mayor Lightfoot made the right decision 
because I follow science, and I follow data, and I follow the 
law. And when you look at all three of those things, I believe 
the City of Chicago made the right decision, and I think it is 
important to really keep our eye on the ball. The City of 
Chicago made that decision. EPA provided additional resources 
so that they could properly evaluate the health impacts, but 
the City of Chicago made that decision.
    Mr. Joyce. Well, Administrator Regan, I would be remiss if 
I didn't address the Great Lakes. My dear friend and colleague, 
Marcy Kaptur, I am going to beat her to this issue, but I am 
sure she will expound upon it. In my backyard, Lake Erie is 
especially prone to the dangerous impacts of harmful algal 
blooms given it is the warmest shallowest, especially in 
Marcy's end, and has the most shoreline development of the 
Great Lakes. While I recognize the Agency is focusing on 
delisting Areas of Concern, given the issues Governor DeWine 
outlined in his January 2022 letter to the Agency, can you take 
a moment to explain how EPA plans to prioritize and distribute 
GLRI dollars to reduce toxin-producing harmful algal blooms and 
improve water quality in the Great Lakes?
    Mr. Regan. Absolutely, and I know that bill does put a 
priority on the AOCs. But we also know that we need to direct 
resources to really focus on these algal blooms. I believe we 
have invested approximately $10 million of GLRI funds each year 
in Lake Erie focusing on nutrient reduction efforts. From 2015 
through 2020, I believe that number has exceeded about $60 
million. So we want to ramp that up, which is why I believe you 
will see in the budget there is a reflection to really focus on 
important issues like these algal blooms.
    I am also spending a lot of time with my good friend, USDA 
Secretary Tom Vilsack, because we know that we have nutrient 
runoff occurring. We also want to leverage the bipartisan 
infrastructure law and the resources we are asking for for our 
water program because we know stormwater is a significant 
contributor here. So, Representative, I can tell you, 
Congressman, I can tell you, I am looking across all of my 
programs trying to, you know, leverage every dollar. I don't 
want to rob Peter to pay Paul. I want to be able to leverage 
all of my resources and channel and focus on these important 
issues that you are raising. And I know these algal blooms are 
critically important not just for public health, but the 
economic vitality of that national treasure that you sit so 
closely to.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you very much. You will find that on this 
committee, we are bipartisan on preservation of the Great 
Lakes, so I will pass it off to Marcy. She will be able to ask 
you some more questions.
    Mr. Regan. Thank you, sir.
    Ms. Pingree. Double teaming on the Great Lakes there. Let's 
see. Mr. Kilmer, do have some more questions?
    Mr. Kilmer. Thanks, Madam Chair. I just have one, and 
hopefully it won't exhaust too much time. I wanted to just 
continue, Mr. Administrator, on the importance of investing in 
Puget Sound, but in so doing, I wanted to just highlight 
another program that I think is really important, and that is 
the National Estuary Program, which, as you know, is an EPA 
program to protect and restore water quality and ecological 
integrity for estuaries of national significance. Obviously 
Puget Sound is one of the big ones in that regard. I was just 
hoping you could speak to how the EPA intends to strengthen the 
important work done under that program.
    Mr. Regan. You are speaking of the National Estuary 
Program?
    Mr. Kilmer. The Estuary Program, correct.
    Mr. Regan. What I will do, Congressman, is get back with 
you on the specifics of that correlation of those two programs.
    Mr. Kilmer. Super. Thank you. We are happy to follow up 
with your team. Again, it is one of those that has an impact on 
a lot of our Nation's estuaries and certainly Puget Sound, 
among them. So we will look forward to following up with your 
team. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Mr. Regan. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. Mr. Simpson.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Chairwoman. This is the second 
series of questions. I wanted to ask you about a second 
subject. It is one that I brought up. First of all, let me just 
say I am happy that Mr. Cartwright recognized that I can smile 
before noon. It is not often, but occasionally I can, so I am 
glad somebody recognized that.
    This is a subject that was brought up somewhat in different 
manner with Congressman Lee, and that is about abandoned mine 
sites and cleaning up abandoned mine sites. This is a subject 
that I brought up with both the Secretary of Energy and the 
Secretary of Interior, and anyone else who would listen. As you 
know, critical minerals are critical, and unfortunately, a lot 
of the critical minerals that we have in this country, we rely 
on other countries that don't like us for the supply of them. 
If you are going to reach your climate goals, and renewable 
energy, and those types of things, you can't outstrip our 
ability to deliver the critical minerals that are necessary in 
batteries, in solar, in other things, and for our defense 
purposes, frankly. The Defense Department is very concerned 
about the supply of critical minerals.
    As you probably know, Idaho is rich in what is deemed 
critical minerals, and some of those in Idaho are significant 
in their applications, and we shouldn't rely on foreign 
countries that don't like us for those. It is important that we 
get these out of the ground here in Idaho in this country in a 
responsible way. So I want to tell you a story about what is 
going on, and then I want to ask you a series of questions and 
have your thoughts on it.
    Cobalt and antimony are very critical minerals, frankly. 
Antimony, Defense is very concerned about it, and it is 
critical in our renewable energy goals, frankly. And so there 
is a mine in Idaho that was developed during World War II. It 
was used to mine antimony that was used for war purposes in 
World War II. After the war, it was abandoned. It has been 
sitting up there in the mountains of Idaho, and the tailings 
are there. There is a runoff from those tailings that pollute 
the waters and some other things. That blocks access to a few 
hundred miles of potential salmon habitat, and those types of 
things. There is a company that has come in that wants to clean 
it up, frankly, and remove those tailings, and clean the water, 
and everything else. They have got a heck of a good plan there. 
It has taken them so far 6 years to get licensed, and they are 
not licensed yet, but it is 6 years. The cobalt mine that is in 
Idaho has taken 10 years, a decade to get licensed for this. 
That is just too long, and so let me ask you these series of 
questions.
    Am I correct that you support, A, the President's critical 
minerals agenda? Do you agree that we should focus on remining 
historical mining districts as opposed to greenfield frontier 
projects that would open new mining if we can do this by 
remining sites? Will you support remining projects that would 
have the co-benefit of improving the environmental conditions 
at historical mine sites? And finally and maybe most 
importantly, will the EPA demonstrate flexibility in the 
permitting process to permit remining for critical minerals 
that improves the condition of the environment at the site, 
improves it, but not necessarily the extreme position to 
meeting pre-mining conditions, conditions that existed before 
there was ever a mine there? If we don't do this and this, and, 
to me, the research I have done on this makes perfect sense, 
but if we don't do this what you are going to leave is just a 
site that still continues to pollute the river and other things 
with runoffs, and not have the ability to clean this up.
    So I think we can work together to solve this, but part of 
it is getting the permitting process streamlined so that we can 
get it done and clean up these sites. And when you are going to 
the Puget Sound and flying over Idaho, there are a couple 
airports that I can have you land at, and we can get on our 
jeans and boots, and they would be happy to take us up there 
and show us some incredible country and what is going on up 
there.
    So, listen, I look forward to your response on this, but 
let me say before I quit that I know sometimes it sounds like I 
am really critical of the EPA. I am not. I think you do a very 
important job, and I look forward to working with you to make 
sure that we can do this job that we all want to do in making 
sure that we have a clean environment. Thank you.
    Mr. Regan. Well, I appreciate the question, and I look 
forward to visiting with you in your district in and doing 
exactly what you just laid out because I believe we have to get 
out from behind the desk in Washington, D.C., and actually see 
things with our own eyes listen, and bring these things back to 
Washington, D.C. So I look forward to the district visit.
    I do support the President's aggresive goals as it relates 
to critical mining. I am also talking with my counterparts. 
This is, once again, another whole-of-government approach. It 
is very important that DOI, DOD, EPA, Commerce, it is important 
that we are all looking at the needs if we want to win the 21st 
century in terms of this global competition to reduce climate 
change but grow jobs and grow the economy at the same time. We 
can't ignore that we have betrayed the trust of many people in 
the past because we haven't done some of this mining right in 
the past. And so what we have to do is restore public trust. We 
have to have processes in place where the Federal Government 
actually talks across agencies and looks for the most expedient 
ways to get access to these critical minerals while protecting 
public health and the environment. I believe that we can do 
that.
    You raised some very good points that it has taken 6, 10, 
15 years. Well, there has been no administration and no 
President has focused on this issue like this President. There 
has been no President that has said all of these agencies must 
work together if we are going to win the 21st century. So, yes, 
I believe that we can put the proper processes in place to 
access critical minerals in a way that supports our climate 
goals and allows for us to win the 21st century and grow a lot 
of jobs.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you for that, and I look forward to 
working with you on it. Thank you for being here today, and 
thanks for the important job you do.
    Mr. Regan. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Simpson. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. That is a really important topic, 
and I feel like I learned a little bit there. So Chair Kaptur, 
it is your time to discuss the Great Lakes or anything else you 
choose.
    Ms. Kaptur. All right. Well, I have got three little 
points, and I will end with the Great Lakes, and I am so glad 
that Congressman Joyce and I are able to co-chair the Great 
Lakes Task Force. We really have our work cut out for us, I 
will tell you.
    But let me begin with this. Mr. Administrator, you 
mentioned you are good friends with Secretary Austin. Well, I 
have an idea, and it would take leadership by both of you, and 
I know you have your hands full. But as we think about the new 
world of vehicles, the Department of Defense spends an enormous 
amount of money going around the country before their air 
shows, like with the Thunderbirds, and they have a ground show. 
They bring in big rocket trucks, and they bring in all these 
vehicles, and there are hundreds of thousands of people, and 
they cheer the Department of Defense and the Thunderbirds. And 
I have often thought that that could be just a tremendous place 
to introduce environmentally clean technologies that are either 
working or in the development stages. That would educate and 
inspire across our country. The Marine Corps has got some 
vehicles they have worked on and so forth.
    But I think in the area of cars and trucks, which somewhat 
fall under you, we could do a lot more, and I also think that 
there should be a national program that inspires our young 
people that we want to go into the fields of technology at 
places that you have never heard of, like Norwalk Dragway in 
Ohio, and Milan Dragway up in Michigan just north of Toledo. 
These are places where the future is being born. Nobody pays 
attention to these individual young people that are trying to 
get a double A fuel dragster to go faster than the guy in the 
other lane, and this is where our talent comes from. We don't 
see it at the Federal level. You know, they go to these big 
companies and all that, but down here where we have the people 
that live right next door to the automotive industry or 
probably out in Derek Kilmer's State where they live right next 
door to where airplanes are made. There is tremendous 
opportunity that I think that we miss and that we don't 
inspire.
    So I think there should be a prize for, you know, the new 
American car, you know, that is built by young people who are 
under 25 years of age or whatever. Something creative has to be 
done there to inspire them that they matter. They matter 
because they are different than kids that just, you know, maybe 
are advantaged their whole lives and go on to Harvard or 
wherever, and these kids are down here working with raw 
material every day, trying to work on electric cars in their 
classrooms in high school and all, and they are really worth 
paying attention to. I will send you something on that, but I 
think we should build the new car starting with them. And I 
think your Department and Secretary Austin could really do 
something with these shows that the military puts on anyway all 
across the country. So that is No. 1. I don't expect you to 
respond but just be interested.
    Secondly, for the Great Lakes cities that are heavily 
burdened with environmental debt, we are trying to do our job, 
but Detroit and Cleveland each have a municipal bonded 
indebtedness of more than $2 billion, most of which is due to 
environmental mandates. Toledo owes--little Toledo now--$1.6 
billion. They are at the base of a watershed that rains into 
it, so the poorest community has to pay for all these 
environmental mandates, and the region that surrounds it walks 
away without those responsibilities: Milwaukee, $1.4 billion.
    So as we think about the problems of the Great Lakes, if 
there is any group in your Agency that could take a look at 
bonded indebtedness in the Great Lakes related to environment 
and some possible solutions. Maybe Brian Deese could help us 
come up with some solutions with his knowledge of finance, but 
sometimes put this dead on the poorest places is absolutely 
morally wrong, and I know that Congressman Joyce probably 
Ashtabula and some of the smaller communities. You know, 
something is wrong with this formula, and so I just wanted to 
point that out and see if there isn't a way to help us think 
through more a creative financing mechanism.
    Finally, with the Great Lakes, again, we are in real 
trouble. We are in real trouble. If there is any way you could 
set up a task force across agencies, including Terry Cosby at 
the Natural Resource Conservation Service at USDA, yourself, 
and people you would appoint, some of the clean climate people 
maybe over at the White House. I don't know, but we are losing 
this battle. The invasive species that have come to the Great 
Lakes, removing the natural phytoplankton, and the accelerating 
growth of algal blooms, it is overwhelming. And our lake is the 
shallowest. Erie is the shallowest. Ontario is in terrible 
shape because she gets our water once it comes out of the Great 
Lakes.
    But we have no political boundary for the problem. The 
problem of Lake Erie lies in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, and 
Western Ontario. Yeah, we have a lot of agencies and we give 
them a lot of money, but there is no concerted focus for every 
month what we have to do to make a difference. In the western 
basin of Lake Erie, I can tell you there are no facilities 
above manure lagoons that turn that effluent into power. Yeah, 
the governor has a program, but it hasn't [inaudible]. And we 
put millions of dollars working with the Senator Stabenow from 
up in Michigan, and David Joyce, and others from using USDA 
funds to try to get out into the watershed and try to contain 
the phosphorus that is coming toward the lake. But half our 
land is absentee owned, so there aren't farmers. There aren't 
farmers there to really tend the land. It is an enormous 
problem. We need some kind of strike force for Lake Erie to 
save it. I am not unhopeful, but I am extremely worried at this 
point. And Toledo experienced something very terrible in 2014. 
You are aware of that. It is going to happen again if we don't 
deal with this. It is a massive environmental challenge.
    And so I am asking for consideration of a strike force 
involving the agencies if you could just give that 
consideration. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Regan. Well, thank you for that, Congresswoman, and I 
will take that idea back of the strike force to the Cabinet, 
and we can see what we can do with that suggestion. I can tell 
you, thank you all for your leadership in giving us the 
resources to begin to try to address some of these issues. EPA 
is throwing everything we have at the Great Lakes. And, you 
know, on the issue of the bond and the indebtedness, I think 
that what I would like to do, we do have an Environmental 
Finance Board that I will take that back to see if they have 
been thinking about this issue, what solutions they might have. 
If they haven't been thinking about these issues, I will be 
sure to let them know that you have asked for us to take a 
strong look at that.
    You know, I love the fact that bipartisanship is working 
here between you and the Congressman from Ohio. I don't know if 
I like being the recipient of the double team, but is a rare 
and beautiful thing to see. [Laughter.]
    Mr. Regan. The Great Lakes is a national treasure. We 
understand that. We know we are playing catch-up. And so I 
appreciate the way you all are asking these questions and 
formulating these requests because I believe that there are 
certain aspects of it that we can meet the moment of, but there 
are some that are really huge mountains to climb, and we look 
forward to tackling those mountains with you. I can also tell 
you that I love your idea about youth engagement.
    I am in the process of creating a youth council here at EPA 
because as I travel the country, some of the best ideas are 
coming from our youth. And what I will do is we are trying to 
look at criteria for who is on that council. You have just 
given us some really great criteria to add to that potential 
idea. And in terms of your request with DOD, there is a 
gentleman that likes to test drive electric vehicles that 
happens to run the country that is leaning on Secretary Austin 
more than I ever could. So I think having cleaner vehicles, 
especially with our military departments, is something that is 
a top priority, but I will also take that request back as well.
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you so very much. Thank you for allowing 
me the time to discuss this.
    Mr. Regan. Absolutely.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Chair Kaptur. We are 
always happy to hear more about the Great Lakes, and 
Administrator Regan, you were not just double teamed. This is 
like a force of nature here. [Laughter.]
    Ms. Pingree. So keep the Great Lakes in your focus, and 
since I grew up in Minnesota on Lake Superior, I am a strong 
supporter of anything and all Great Lakes, even though I am 
devoted to the ocean these days.
    Mr. Joyce. Good thing Chair McCollum wasn't here, too. She 
would have really got him.
    Ms. Pingree. This committee is heavily weighted to the 
Great Lakes. The real power rests there, so we just struggle to 
get a little attention to the ocean on the East and West Coasts 
and the South as well.
    Well, we are very appreciative of your time today and your 
thoughtful answers to all of our questions, and, of course, we 
look forward to working with you in this budget process. And I 
think I speak for myself and the ranking member. I don't know 
if you want to make any other remarks, but we are just happy to 
have had you here today.
    Mr. Joyce. I just thank you for your time. I missed you 
when you were here in northeast Ohio. As everybody on the 
committee knows, I have been recuperating, but now 5 weeks 
later, I have a new knee, so, there is no stopping me now. I 
will follow you wherever you need to go.
    Mr. Regan. Well, I tell, you know, I hate that we couldn't 
time it in the way that you could participate, so that just 
means I have to come back and visit you. I am committed to 
visiting the districts and spending time because I believe that 
that is where the solutions come from.
    Mr. Joyce. Lots to show you.
    Mr. Regan. Absolutely.
    Ms. Pingree. Well, thank you very much. Thank you to the 
committee.
    If there are no other questions, this meeting stands 
adjourned.
    Mr. Regan. Thank you all.

                                           Wednesday, May 18, 2022.

                         NATIONAL PARK SERVICE

                               WITNESSES

CHARLES ``CHUCK'' F. SAMS III, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
JESSICA BOWRON, COMPTROLLER, NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
    Ms. Pingree. Good afternoon. This hearing will now come to 
order. As the hearing is fully virtual, we must address a few 
housekeeping matters.
    For today's meeting, the chair, or staff designated by the 
chair, may mute participants' microphones when they are not 
under recognition for the purposes of eliminating inadvertent 
background noise. Members are responsible for muting and 
unmuting themselves.
    If you notice that you have not unmuted yourself, I will 
ask you if you would like the staff to unmute you. If you 
indicate your approval by nodding, the staff will unmute your 
microphone.
    I remind all members and witnesses that the 5-minute clock 
still applies. If there is a technology issue, we will move to 
the next member until the issue is resolved, and you will 
retain the balance of your time. You will notice a clock on 
your screen that will show how much time is remaining.
    At 1 minute remaining, the clock will turn to yellow. At 30 
seconds remaining, I will gently tap the gavel to remind 
members that their time is almost expired. When your time is 
expired, the clock will turn red, and I will begin to recognize 
the next member.
    In terms of speaking order, we will follow the order set 
forth in House Rules, beginning with the chair and ranking 
member. Then members present at the time the hearing is called 
to order will be recognized in order of seniority and, finally, 
members not present at the time the hearing is called to order.
    Finally, House rules require me to remind you that we have 
set up an email address to which members can send anything they 
wish to submit in writing at any of our hearings or markups. 
That email address has been provided in advance to your staff.
    Okay. Now we can begin.
    This afternoon, we will be hearing from the 19th National 
Park Service Director, Mr. Charles F. Sams, about the fiscal 
year 2023 budget request for the National Park Service. He is 
accompanied by Jessica Bowron, the National Park Service 
Comptroller.
    Director Sams, welcome. We are so pleased to have you 
before the subcommittee today. You have come to the Park 
Service at a critical time for the agency, which has been 
without a permanent Director for 6 years.
    During that period, the Service has faced some significant 
challenges, including record visitation of the parks, the 
COVID-19 pandemic, and the positive, but nonetheless 
challenging ramp-up of the construction program to implement 
the Great American Outdoors Act. I commend the career staff for 
their commitment and dedication to keep the agency on track.
    Our focus for today's hearing is the President's $3.6 
billion request for the National Park Service, an increase of 
$346 million, or 10.6 percent above the fiscal year 2022 
enacted level. Notable increases include $228 million for 
tackling climate change, conserving our natural resources, and 
using science to inform decision-making; $148 million to 
increase staff capacity throughout the parks; and $48 million 
for advancing racial equity and support for underserved 
communities.
    These are important investments that will better enable the 
National Park Service to understand and adapt to the 
significant challenges it faces in the 21st century so that it 
can meet its mission for future generations.
    Director Sams, I am eager to hear about your vision for the 
National Park Service, to learn about what you believe are its 
most critical needs, and to gain a better understanding of how 
we in Congress can help support the National Park Service so 
that millions of people can continue to enjoy these majestic 
natural and cultural resources.
    I would now like to yield to our ranking member, Mr. Joyce, 
for his opening remarks.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you for yielding, Madam Chair.
    I would like to welcome Director Sams and the Park 
Service's Comptroller Jessica Bowron. Thank you for joining us 
this afternoon, and congratulations on your historic 
nomination, Director Sams.
    As the first American Indian to lead the National Park 
Service, I have no doubt that your heritage, experience, and 
respect for our public lands will serve the country well, and 
you will be a great steward of our national parks. As the son 
of a World War II veteran, I also wanted to thank you and your 
family for your service to our country.
    The fiscal year 2023 budget request is $3.6 billion for the 
National Park Service, which is a 10 percent increase over the 
current year level. While I wholeheartedly support the parks 
and want to protect them for future generations, I worry that 
it will be difficult to provide the Service's full request, 
given the country's current financial situation.
    With the national debt now over $30 trillion, we must take 
a careful look at Federal spending and make responsible choices 
where we can. It has been several years since the National Park 
Service has a confirmed leader. So today provides us with a 
good opportunity to hear firsthand how the fiscal year 2023 
request makes investments to help the Park Service carry out 
its mission.
    Last year, the national parks welcomed more than 297 
million visitors, up nearly 60 million visitors from 2020. As 
visitation rebounds following the pandemic, it is important we 
provide the necessary resources to expand access to the parks, 
increase capacity and recreational opportunities, and improve 
visitor experiences.
    Deferred maintenance continues to be an ongoing issue for 
nearly all national parks, including those in my district, like 
the Cuyahoga Valley National Park and the James A. Garfield 
National Historic Site. I look forward to discussing how the 
request, along with the funding provided through the Great 
American Outdoors Act, will address the Service's extensive 
maintenance repair backlog to help us preserve the parks for 
future generations.
    Additionally, with the Ohio and Erie Canalway National 
Heritage Area in my back yard, I remain supportive of programs 
that provide technical and financial assistance to partners and 
groups that operate outside of the national park boundaries. 
These dollars go a long way to help local communities preserve 
their history, conserve natural resources, and spur economic 
growth.
    Director Sams, thank you again for joining us today. When 
your schedule allows, I invite you to come out and visit our 
parks in northeast Ohio. It would be a great opportunity to 
show you the impact that National Park Service sites have on 
our region and our State.
    Thank you again, Chair Pingree, for calling this important 
hearing today. I look forward to the discussion, and I yield 
back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. Thank you to the ranking member for 
your statement.
    And Director Sams, we would love to hear from you.
    Mr. Sams. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the 
committee. Thank you for having me here today.
    Madam Chair and members of the subcommittee, thank you for 
the opportunity to appear before you on the fiscal year 2023 
budget request for the National Park Service. I would like to 
summarize my testimony and submit my entire statement for the 
record.
    I want to begin by thanking you for your support of the NPS 
for fiscal year 2022. Thanks to the additional funds you 
provided, all parks are preparing for the summer season with 
full fixed costs covered, and we are moving forward with 
important efforts such as ensuring all of our U.S. Park Police 
officers and law enforcement rangers have body-worn cameras.
    I would also like to thank Chair Pingree and Ranking Member 
Joyce for our recent visits. I appreciated the opportunity to 
hear your priorities and was so pleased that so many of our 
goals align for the future of our parks and our dedicated 
employees.
    I have visited parks across the country in recent months 
and seen firsthand some of the challenges facing our parks, 
like climate change, increased visitation, and a need to expand 
the breadth of the histories we are telling. I have also heard 
from our employees about challenges like housing, connectivity, 
and capacity. I am pleased to share with you today how our 
fiscal year 2023 budget request addresses many of these issues.
    The discretionary budget request for the NPS is $3.6 
billion, an increase of $345.6 million compared to fiscal year 
2022 enacted funding levels. Our budget request makes bold 
investments essential for the Service's continued success in 
its second century by investing in our most valuable resources, 
our employees.
    I want to highlight a few components with you that we are 
particularly proud to include in this year's budget request--
conservation, racial justice, and restoring capacity. Our 
request proposes an additional $225 million in targeted 
service-wide investments to protect natural resources from 21st 
century threats. Fundamental to this effort is a $57 million 
increase for park capacity in our natural resource programs.
    We also propose additional funding to complete natural 
resource projects, transitioning the National Park Service 
fleet to zero emission vehicles, complete climate vulnerability 
assessments, and better position the agency to respond to 
natural disasters.
    President Biden's Executive Order 13985, Advancing Racial 
Equity and Support for Underserved Communities, directs Federal 
agencies to operate in an environment that advances equity for 
all. The fiscal year 2023 NPS budget proposes $36 million in 
increased targeted investments to advance racial justice and 
equity for underserved communities.
    Fourteen million dollars would fund new and critical 
responsibilities at parks, preserving the stories of 
underrepresented communities. This funding will support many of 
our newest units, such as the Medgar and Myrlie Evers Home 
National Monument, as well as existing units like Minidoka 
National Historic Site.
    The budget also reflects our commitment to respect and 
strengthen indigenous connections and enhance our nation-to-
nation relationships. We request an additional $6 million to 
support additional tribal liaisons in parks and regional 
offices and an increase of $7 million in grant funding to 
Tribal Historic Preservation Offices.
    The fiscal year 2023 request also proposes investments in 
our employees. The NPS has lost more than 15 percent of our 
ONPS-funded capacity since fiscal year 2010. Over the same 
period, 33 units have been added to the National Park System, 
and visitation has grown by more than 40 million, or greater 
than 15 percent.
    We have already seen visitation levels rebound in many 
parks from the pandemic decreases. To meet this demand, the 
budget requests $148 million across initiatives to support more 
than 1,000 additional FTEs.
    The budget also proposes increases of $7 million to lease, 
construct, or rehabilitate housing for NPS employees, $7 
million to improve connectivity for sites with limited 
bandwidth, and $600,000 to stand up an office that would 
provide targeted support for employee mental health and 
wellness.
    Finally, I am pleased to update you on our progress to 
implement the Great American Outdoors Act. To date, funding 
from GAOA has provided almost $2.6 billion to the NPS for 
deferred maintenance and repairs. We have obligated $730 
million to date, with 26 projects underway and more starting 
this summer.
    From the Land and Water Conservation Fund, the NPS has 
received nearly $200 million for land acquisition activities, 
and we are working with willing sellers across the country to 
protect lands within park boundaries.
    The NPS has received $690 million for State grant programs 
matched by non-Federal funds for a total impact of more than $1 
billion and continues to work with State partners to support 
State and local recreation priorities.
    Madam Chair, this concludes my summary, and thank you for 
the opportunity to testify today and for your continued support 
of the National Park Service.
    I would be happy to answer any questions.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. Thank you so much for that and for 
taking on this extremely important job. It is going to be 
wonderful working with you.
    We are going to start with our questions, and I will start 
with myself. A topic that you have already mentioned, and that 
is climate change.
    So in our park in the State of Maine, we are already 
feeling the impacts of climate change in Acadia National Park. 
The Gulf of Maine, which surrounds the park, is warming more 
rapidly than the oceans anywhere else in the world, and its 
temperature has risen 3 degrees over the last century.
    The park itself is also getting warmer, and your scientists 
predict that its temperatures will rise by 5 to 13 degrees by 
the end of the century. This warming will have major impacts on 
the park and local economy, and it is already starting to be 
felt.
    It is imperative that we take immediate action to fight 
climate change, and I believe that research should underpin 
those efforts. So I am pleased that the budget requests $17 
million for research learning centers and proposes to increase 
the Inventory and Monitoring Program by $16 million.
    Could you just talk a little bit more about the National 
Park Service climate change research and how it has helped to 
identify what resources are at risk and how it is influencing 
management actions to help increase their resilience?
    And also can you talk a little bit about how the Service 
can communicate what you are learning about climate change to 
the millions of visitors who come through the parks?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    The NPS has completed several assessments on this issue--80 
park-specific reports, 100 climate change vulnerability 
assessments for selected resources, and sea level rise 
projections for 118 coastal park units. However, many of the 
parks lack targeted climate change vulnerability and risk 
information. I want to thank the committee for the $1.8 million 
for the fiscal year 2022 spending bill for climate change 
assessment.
    We apply climate science research across our mission. A 
couple good examples, of course, is from Acadia, where the park 
works with the Schoodic Institute and Friends of Acadia to 
understand how climate change will affect its forests, 
mountaintops, and intertidal areas. The park is using this 
information as it restores wetlands, ensuring the plant species 
that are planted are suitable for Acadia's climate future.
    As our knowledge base grows, visitors are becoming better 
educated in the entire ecosystem of coastal Maine and the 
fragile balance between the flora, fauna, and the rising sea 
levels. And we want to continue to make sure that we do that 
public education so that it goes far and wide not only to 
Mainers, but of course, across the country as a good example of 
how we can work on resiliency.
    The fiscal year 2023 budget proposes historic investments 
in addressing the effects of climate change and other 
conservation issues in the National Park System with a $224.6 
million increase proposed for these conservation efforts. The 
NPS has completed several of these assessments as discussed, 
and we are ready to move forward on more of those in fiscal 
year 2023 if our budget is approved.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Thank you.
    I do, of course, hope we get a chance to welcome you to 
Acadia National Park and to see the great work they are doing 
with the Schoodic Institute really to help us sort out how the 
park is going to fare and also surrounding areas in our State. 
And I am pleased that the park uses these opportunities for 
what they have learned as a teaching tool.
    I think climate change is so confusing and abstract to 
people. Sometimes when you are visiting the park and you get a 
chance to talk to a ranger about your real questions of what is 
happening, or an interpretive worker, it is a really wonderful 
moment in time.
    I am going to yield back and turn it over to Ranking Member 
Joyce.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Director Sams, now that the Land and Water Conservation 
Fund is fully funded, spending the annual appropriation 
efficiently and on quality projects will be key to the 
program's continued success. In that context, I want to raise a 
concern about the appraisal process and particularly about 
appraisal delays that may be posing a threat to the success of 
the LWCF projects we fund in our bill.
    I understand the Department's Appraisal Office isn't under 
your control, but we are hearing from your partners on 
battlefields and other projects. Specifically, we are hearing 
that an appraisal process that used to take a few months, as it 
does in the private market, now takes a year or two or even 
longer.
    Granted, no one wants the Appraisal Office to cut corners 
or otherwise detract from the integrity of the process. We need 
good appraisals to protect public funds and honor the rights of 
the landowners to just and fair compensation when they choose 
to sell. But with these kind of delays, landowners and others, 
including partners who bring non-Federal dollars that leverage 
and stretch your conservation reach, could give up and walk 
away.
    Are you aware of the problem, and if so, what can you share 
with us about steps being taken to fix it? For example, does it 
make sense to move appraisal functions back under the Park 
Service?
    Mr. Sams. Well, thank you, Representative Joyce.
    I am very familiar with this. Having come from the private 
sector before this and working with the Trust for Public Land, 
I know the challenges that are faced when trying to get 
appraisals done as quickly as possible through the process. And 
of course, the National Park Service is reliant because 
appraisals are handled by the Department of the Interior's 
Appraisal and Evaluation Service Office.
    We will continue to work with DOI, ensuring its services 
are completed in a timely manner. I know that it is a top 
priority of our staff, and I know that this problem is being 
investigated and looked at at the highest levels.
    And I hope to come back and be able to report to you soon 
exactly how we are going to deal with that so that we can move 
these through and we don't miss the opportunities with these 
willing landowners who really wish to work with us. And I am 
very appreciative of their willingness to work with us.
    Mr. Joyce. I am, too, sir. Thank you.
    For the first time in several years, the National Park 
Service released deferred maintenance estimates. The updated 
estimates total $21.8 billion, nearly double the Park Service's 
2019 estimate. I recognize that construction costs have gone 
up, but can you take a moment to explain the spike in estimates 
and how your assessment process has changed?
    And what types of deferred maintenance were not previously 
accounted for and how we can actually be sure that the Great 
American Outdoors Act funding is making progress to tackle the 
backlog?
    Mr. Sams. Absolutely. Thank you.
    DOI recently standardized the deferred maintenance and 
repairs definition across all of our bureaus. As part of that 
standardization, the Park Service added project execution costs 
for planning, design, and construction management into the DM&R 
calculations.
    While these costs increase the total, they do better 
represent the funding necessary to bring assets into acceptable 
conditions. And as you pointed out, our now estimate did jump 
to $21.8 billion. And yes, there are also those associated 
costs, as you pointed out, with rising inflation.
    But this new standardization that we use, which is much 
more consistent with other Federal agencies, captures the full 
cost of this deferred maintenance, which wasn't caught 
previously. And we feel secure in these current estimates of 
what we have moving forward as we gather more data from the 
field on those deferred maintenance issues.
    Mr. Joyce. So is the annual maintenance funding request for 
fiscal year 2023 enough to prevent adding to the deferred 
maintenance backlog? And if not, how much more is really needed 
for annual maintenance?
    Mr. Sams. You know, that will just depend as we continue to 
evaluate each one of our sites. Maintenance will always be an 
ongoing issue. Things deteriorate or break down, depending on 
weather conditions, usage, and current upkeep and maintenance 
practices.
    And so as we are trying to build this out, of course, even 
and one of our requests is bringing on additional staff that 
would help with that maintenance upkeep in check. By being able 
to have those staff in the field, we think we can better get a 
tackle--tackle this situation and do preventive maintenance. 
But of course, maintenance will always be there as long as we 
construct things within the park system itself, and those costs 
will continue to go as things start to deteriorate and fall 
apart.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, sir. I yield back, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much. We are going to go to 
Representative Lee.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you. It is good to see you, Commissioner, 
and thanks for all of your hard work with the Park Service. I 
personally am a big user of the National Park Service. So I 
appreciate everything you do.
    I wanted to talk about something that I have been 
consistently talking about since I have been in Congress, which 
is the drought that is engulfing the Southwest and obviously 
Nevada, my home State. It is the worst drought that this region 
has seen in 12 centuries, and honestly, too many children in my 
district don't even--have not lived a life without it.
    And so last April, the administration launched the 
Interagency Drought Relief Working Group, and it was co-chaired 
by the Departments of the Interior and Agriculture, to address 
the needs of communities like mine who are suffering from the 
drought. I wanted to ask you what role has the Park Service 
specifically played in fulfilling the working group's mission?
    Mr. Sams. Well, thank you, Madam Representative.
    And yes, this has been a major topic among myself and my 
other bureau--the other bureau heads here in the Department as 
we are figuring out how best to tackle this issue. The National 
Park Service is an active member of the working group and 
coordinating across those Federal agencies as we work with our 
partners to also include State, local, and tribal governments.
    Between the Great American Outdoors Act funding and the 
fiscal year 2022 disaster supplemental, the NPS has prioritized 
more than $45 million for drought-related projects at Lake Mead 
National Recreation Area and Glen Canyon National Recreation 
Area. Projects include relocating the Callville Bay water 
intake barge at Lake Mead and repairing a well at Wahweap due 
to low water at Glen Canyon.
    The fiscal year 2023 budget also requests an addition $7 
million for emergency and unscheduled construction projects 
specifically meant to rapidly respond to the impacts of climate 
change, such as drought, fire, and floods.
    And so, yes, we are working very closely. I know that my 
fellow bureau heads and I have had a lot of discussion around 
the drought issue, including looking at plans for ourselves to 
go out together to start addressing more of these concerns.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you.
    I want to talk a little bit more about the Lake Mead 
National Recreation Area, which is in my district and provides 
recreation for--not just recreation, but obviously water for 25 
million people in Nevada and neighboring States.
    Lake Mead is also the first and largest national recreation 
area, and the declining water levels have completely reshaped 
the lake's shorelines and significantly reduced recreational 
opportunities. In fact, it was just announced this week that 
there is only one working boat launch ramp in the lake with a 
completed extension. And so, in addition, most of the launch 
ramps at Glen Canyon's National Recreation Area have likewise 
been closed.
    So you mentioned dollar amounts, but what specific steps do 
you foresee in the next year and beyond to help mitigate the 
impacts of this drought, and does the Park Service plan new 
access points? What specifically is in that plan?
    Mr. Sams. We are. We are talking with our leadership out 
West about different access points, what that is going to look 
like, how that is going to affect our concessionaires and the 
general public. And we are laying out mitigation proposals that 
are coming in from the recreation areas to tell us exactly what 
the public is saying and how we can ensure that there is still 
access to this great jewel that we have out West.
    So as we are laying out those plans, I look forward to 
coming back and speaking with you directly about this, and I 
can talk with your staff as we come to some conclusions on 
that.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you. I am very much looking forward to 
working with you on this issue and, obviously, the impact of 
our climate change on drought and its impact on our national 
parks.
    With that, Madam Chair, I will yield.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you for your question.
    Representative Simpson, you are next.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Chairwoman.
    And Director Sams, thank you for being here today. You are 
lucky in that I think there is really good bipartisan support 
and has been for the National Park Service in this committee 
over the years, and I am sure that will continue because we all 
love our national parks. In fact, the reality is we love them 
too much, and that creates the challenges that we have in the 
maintenance and so forth.
    But let me ask just a couple of specific questions. One is 
in this budget request, you have requested--and I think you 
mentioned it in your opening testimony--$7 million, an increase 
of $7 million for grants for Tribal Historic Preservation 
Offices. What is that $7 million on top of? What is the total 
request for Historic Preservation Offices, Tribal Historic 
Preservation Offices?
    Mr. Sams. If you will allow me, I am going to defer to 
Jessica on this for the total amount.
    Ms. Bowron. The total amount requested for the Historic 
Preservation Fund is $151.8 million.
    Mr. Simpson. Okay. That includes the $7 million increase, 
right?
    Ms. Bowron. Yes.
    Mr. Sams. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Simpson. Okay. To me, that is a very important program, 
and we need to make sure that it gets funded at an adequate 
level to be able to carry out their responsibilities and stuff, 
as I am sure you are well aware.
    Talk to me a little bit about your personnel challenges you 
are facing. Every Federal agency I talk to, whether it is the 
Forest Service or the BLM or any others, are facing shortages 
in personnel, which are delaying the time it takes to get 
permitting and that type of stuff. With the National Park 
Service, you mentioned this somewhat in your opening statement. 
What is the challenges you are facing with personnel?
    Mr. Sams. It really is about capacity and bringing in, 
ensuring that we have enough people to do all the jobs 
necessary. And so in my request, we are requesting nearly 1,100 
FTEs to help us try to get back to where we were at least a 
decade ago. And that is across all points of the Service, 
whether that is from our science staff to the back-end finance 
staff to our permitting staff.
    Right now, folks are pulling double, triple duty. As I have 
been able to travel across the United States over the last 4 
months--in particular, I have hit almost nearly 40 national 
parks--this comes up repeatedly that our workforce is highly 
dedicated to the mission. I would say that most folks within 
the Park Service truly bleed gray and green. That being said, 
they are doing double duty on so many other things.
    And so we are asking this funding so that we can make sure 
that we are able to implement the programs that we are doing, 
that we are ensuring that the investments that are being made 
through GAOA and bill are being effective, and that we are 
being responsive to the American people so that they can have 
the experience that they are looking for when they are going 
into the parks.
    And as you know, there are so many more things that happen 
on the back end. And while the rangers, who do the 
interpretation, and law enforcement are always on the 
forefront, they are supported by several to eight other people 
in order to make sure that a person has a seamless opportunity 
to enjoy the nature, the monuments, and the memorials across 
this great Nation.
    And so this request that I have out here is to help fill 
that backlog of folks that we need to get out on the ground to 
support that work.
    Mr. Simpson. What about summer employment that helps the 
rangers and stuff that are out working in the national parks? 
People--that is their kind of summer job--especially senior 
citizens sometimes come to our national parks and spend their 
summer there working at various places. Is that a challenge?
    Mr. Sams. It can be a challenge if we are hiring them on as 
seasonal staff. As we are getting through ensuring that we have 
enough human resources personnel to start processing that, we 
are looking at it, and I have taken a very strong look at this 
and recentralizing some of our HR practices so that we can have 
a much more smoother opportunity to folks coming in through 
that process to be hired.
    But I do want to give notice to the 240,000-plus volunteers 
that we have who are our force multiplier in the National Park 
Service. Without those volunteers, we wouldn't be able to get a 
lot of what we do done, and they are an important factor who 
provide everything from interpretation to helping keeping up 
the grounds themselves.
    And so bringing in, though, a dedicated workforce either 
through the summer months as seasonal employees or permanent 
employees is critical for our success.
    Mr. Simpson. Well, I appreciate it, and I appreciate all 
you are doing. And over the next couple of weeks, we are going 
to be off from Congress here, so me and my wife and my dog are 
going to take a road trip and go out through--as you know, we 
live in Idaho Falls. So we are going to go up through Grand 
Teton and Yellowstone and see them for a while. I haven't been 
there for a little bit. So, look forward to seeing them again.
    And thank you for all you do.
    Mr. Sams. Thank you. Safe travels.
    Mr. Simpson. You bet.
    Ms. Pingree. Are you yielding back, Mr. Simpson? Yes, you 
are? All right. Thank you.
    And sounds like a great trip. You all just have to bring us 
all along. [Laughter.]
    Ms. Pingree. Representative McCollum, do you have a 
question or some questions?
    Ms. McCollum. Yes, I do. Thank you so much, Chair Pingree.
    This is like a good hearing today because we are going to 
learn what we can do to help our parks, but it has also filled 
a great opportunity, I think, to showcase the work that we need 
to do in this committee.
    I want to focus on the Park Service commitment to racial 
justice and equity and how we can embrace that by expanding our 
outreach to underserved communities. So that we are talking 
about urban youth, disabled Americans, people of color, or 
whether they are Americans who have just historically faced 
barriers in accessing and enjoying our public lands.
    So I have been working with this subcommittee and the 
Forest Committee--Forest Service over the last few budget 
cycles to expand the successful Urban Connections program, 
which addresses the equity gap and accessibility by forging 
relationships with urban youth leaders and organizations to 
create recreation and learning opportunities in our national 
forests, our wilderness areas.
    So I would like to get a check-up on how the National Park 
Service is doing. And I heard what you were saying about 
personnel shortages, and you fully have my sympathy on that, 
and I am ready to do whatever I can to help with the chair to 
increase the people that we have to work on this. But right 
now, I know you are still working on it and in spite of not 
having the full complement of staff that you would like.
    So just fill us in a little bit about what you are doing to 
connect marginalized communities to the outdoors, especially in 
urban parks. And I have two of them, and they are river parks, 
the Saint Croix National Recreation Area in my district, and 
then we have the Mississippi--excuse me, the Saint Croix is the 
scenic river. The Mississippi River is the river that has the 
recreation area assigned to it.
    So a book that I read a while ago and I keep in my office 
is ``Last Child in the Woods,'' and you could say ``Last Child 
on the Prairie,'' ``Last Child on the Coast,'' whatever, and it 
is about how we need to connect children to nature, and I know 
the Park Service has been doing a lot on that.
    So could you just tell me some things that we need to do 
more to overcome barriers with that, especially for 
historically marginalized communities? It is different when a 
child drives on a bridge over the river versus being on a canoe 
or walking along the shores of a river and the connection that 
they have to it.
    So public-private partnerships, what do we need to do to 
help you do more?
    Mr. Sams. Well, thank you, Madam Representative.
    I feel very fortunate that grew up outdoors most of my 
life, with a grandfather who made sure that my education began 
by understanding my natural environment. That being said, one 
of my top priorities is to advance equity, inclusion, and 
access in carrying out the National Park Service mission.
    The fiscal year 2023 request includes $36 million to 
advance racial justice and equity. This includes $2.4 million 
for underserved community outreach coordinators in urban 
national parks to build strategic community relationships and 
increase engagement with historically excluded communities.
    This is critical for us to be able to understand those 
local histories much better and to make sure that we are 
including them in the stories we tell, whether that is at the 
memorial site, a monument, or in the national park itself.
    In addition, we also included $5 million to identify and 
address transportation barriers that inhibit underserved 
communities from accessing parks and $5 million to expand our 
accessibility expertise across the country to ensure we are 
meeting our physical and programmatic accessibility 
requirements, and we are seeing some of that here in the 
Nation's capital, especially around the FDR Memorial.
    That being said, as I travel across the country, I do see 
several marginalized communities who are finally feeling that 
they have a seat at the table not only just within their 
community, but with us as a Federal organization to be able to 
tell their story in a much more broader concept.
    And whether we do that, as you may see, the Chinese 
American community at Yosemite or the Native community in a 
number of parks where Native people have lived here for 10,000-
plus years, we are reaching out to a much more diverse group of 
people and helping us tell those stories so that it is much 
more inclusive. Because one of my goals is to ensure that every 
American sees themselves in our park system.
    It is ensuring that it builds us a much more perfect union 
and an understanding of who we are as Americans and these crown 
jewels that we have, that we love so much, and how they are 
going to protect them not just for themselves, but also for 
future generations.
    Ms. McCollum. Well, we thank you for that. And I know Mr. 
Simpson and I--and I have been at Acadia with the chair. Some 
of our parks were designed for ADA. They weren't designed for 
strollers. They weren't designed for families. And so that is 
something that I know you are working on as well as personnel.
    And so we have got some great partnerships out there, 
nonprofits like Urban Connections and that. And anything that 
we can do to grow that, I am happy to do that and, at the same 
time, tell an inclusive story. And I mean that as a social 
studies teacher.
    Thank you so much. I yield back, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you, Chair McCollum, for your questions.
    Chair Kaptur, you are next. Do you have any questions?
    Ms. Kaptur. All right. Thank you, Madam Chair, very much. 
An interesting hearing.
    And thank you so much, Director Sams. Great to have you 
here with us today.
    I keep thinking--as I am looking at David Joyce on the 
screen, I keep thinking of two of our predecessors, Ralph 
Regula and John Seiberling, who, Republican and Democrat, 
together worked to allow us to have the assets we have today 
along Lake Erie and, in fact, across the Nation. They were 
completely dedicated to the National Park Service and to the 
assets of the Department of the Interior.
    So thank you for being in the Service.
    My question really goes to our region first and the 
Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation Area, which is one of the 
10 most visited park systems in the country. With the funding 
we provided in other bills as well as your annual budget, here 
is my problem.
    The Cuyahoga River was the western boundary of the United 
States when we had the 13 colonies. When you try to traverse 
the Northwest Territory, which started at the Cuyahoga River 
and then goes west to several States in the middle part of the 
country, there really isn't any common interpretive mode that 
occurs.
    So, for example, I represent one of the smallest national 
parks in the country at the Perry's Victory Memorial, Victory 
and Peace Memorial. It is 25 acres. Woo-hoo! We are really 
glad. That little place gets 200,000 visitors a year, 200,000.
    Okay. Nearby are something not in your control called the 
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. And we have been working since 
my very first year in office to expand the number of holdings 
from about 3,000 acres, we are now close to 12,000 acres along 
Lake Erie's southern rim, which is extremely fragile and serves 
as a wetland filter to a very troubled lake, which we must not 
let die.
    And I start looking a little bit west of that, and we have 
something called the Fallen Timbers Battlefield, which has a 
relationship with the National Park Service and the Fort Miamis 
National Historic Site and the Fort Meigs State Memorial 
because one of the biggest battles, the Battle of Fallen 
Timbers, occurred there in that Northwest Territory.
    There is no common interpretation across this region. So 
what I am asking for, is anybody in your operation there able 
to work with us in our region, the former Northwest Territory, 
to begin to interpret America's first frontier in a more 
coherent manner? We have all these little dibs and dabs. This 
goes up into Michigan to the Dunes there, over into Indiana, to 
the Northwest Territory.
    We so need this, and I am not quite sure how to get it. One 
time, I had a former National Parks Director in my district, 
great guy, one of your predecessors. I said, ``What can you 
do?'' And he answered me, ``Well, in our building in 
Washington, I am on the same floor as the Park Service.''
    So I have never been able to get the two instrumentalities 
to work together. Our Fish and Wildlife Service area probably 
gets--just right now in the spring, we will get 100,000 
visitors because that is where the Mississippi and Atlantic 
flyways cross. We got trumpeter swans that didn't go south this 
year. Man, they are magnificent.
    And, but between the Victory Memorial and the British, 
American, and French heritage that is all tied up there, and 
the wildlife refuges, we probably get--oh, my--half a million 
to a million visitors a year. I would have to total it all up. 
That is the thing. We don't even know.
    So how do we get this? Do I have to pass a special piece of 
legislation? Do you have some authority to help us with 
coherent planning? What can we do?
    Mr. Sams. Madam Representative, thank you for the question.
    So on my non-Indian side, we came in through New York, New 
Jersey, Pennsylvania, and eventually, my eighth-great-
grandfather, Henry Sams, had fought in the Revolutionary War 
and then homesteaded in the Northwest Territories and 
eventually landing in Richland County. And so the story that 
you are wanting to tell is also very important to me on a very 
personal level.
    My wife's family comes from Cuyahoga and has had one of the 
in-holdings there and was just on Boston Mills Road growing up.
    Ms. Kaptur. Wow.
    Mr. Sams. That being said, I want to make sure that we do 
remain committed to collaborating with State, county and 
cities, and other Federal agencies like the U.S. Fish and 
Wildlife Service on management and interpretive opportunities 
across the Service and in the State of Ohio.
    Perry's Victory and International Peace Memorial 
collaborates with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the 
Ottawa National Wildlife Refuge, in a ranger exchange, with NPS 
rangers participating in the biggest week of birding and U.S. 
Fish and Wildlife rangers participating in the Perry Education 
Days.
    The NPS Rivers and Trails Conservation Assistance Program 
has facilitated connectivity among agencies, cities and 
counties, and States through 3 years of work on the Ohio River 
Recreation Trail. The trail connects communities and promotes 
recreation on 270 miles of the Ohio River through Ohio, 
Kentucky, and Indiana.
    And a summit of elected officials----
    Ms. Kaptur. What was the name again?
    Mr. Sams. That was the Ohio River Recreation Trail.
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you.
    Mr. Sams. And a summit of elected officials was held on May 
12, hosted by the Mayors of Cincinnati and Louisville, to 
discuss the benefits of the Ohio River Recreation Trail. The 
National Park Service hosted a very similar summit last October 
in 2021.
    In addition, we also--NPS's Underground Railroad Network to 
Freedom also connects themes across the States. Last year, it 
provided $180,000 in grant funding for network sites, including 
the Beecher family home, which is a State-owned asset in 
Cincinnati, and the John Brown House, which is a locally owned 
asset in Akron. The UGRR expects to award over $100,000 in 
funding for the most recent grant round, and it just extended 
its grant application to Juneteenth, or June 19, 2022.
    NPS will continue to work within DOI's Great Lakes Region, 
and its bureaus are park partners in the State of Ohio in 
developing a good forum for discussing further ways that we can 
collaborate on these important projects and to tell a much more 
coherent and strong story about America's expansion in the 
Northwest Territory.
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Ms. Kaptur--go ahead. I am just saying I think 
you are out of time, but it sounds like your Ohio is in very 
good hands with our National Park Service Director.
    Ms. Kaptur. It sure does. Finally, somebody who knows where 
we are.
    Ms. Pingree. Okay. Representative Kilmer.
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    And thank you for being with us today. I want to 
congratulate you on your appointment and just recognize the 
significance of it. It is also great to have a park Director 
from the Northwest. So congratulations to you.
    Rather than treading territory that has already been tread, 
I just want to associate myself with Ranking Member Joyce's 
questions about deferred maintenance and some of the concerns 
there. But I want to ask about two topics with the time I have.
    One, as you know, during World War II, thousands of 
Japanese Americans across our country were forced from their 
homes after Franklin Roosevelt signed an executive order 
authorizing the exclusion of Japanese Americans from military 
areas. This was a really dark chapter in our history, 
especially relevant to the Pacific Northwest and the folks I 
represent.
    On Bainbridge Island in my district, 227 Japanese Americans 
were forced to leave, forced to board a ferry at Eagledale to 
begin the journey that would put them in internment camps for 
the duration of the world. There is a memorial there, managed 
in part by the National Park Service, that is located at that 
former ferry dock.
    And it is a site that remembers and honors those that were 
forced from their homes, and the memorial reminds us to learn 
from the past. It is extraordinary. I invite you there. And it 
is powerful, and it reminds us of a time when Japanese 
Americans were denied their civil liberties and their 
constitutional rights.
    My question for you is how does the National Park Service 
intend to strengthen its work of preserving and interpreting 
sites where Japanese Americans were incarcerated during World 
War II, and how can the committee support that important work?
    Mr. Sams. Well, thank you very much, Congressman.
    The President signed Amache into our system now, and we 
will be working very closely to be able to also tell that 
story. But it is important we tell all the stories of those 
parks that we have and those facilities that are under our 
jurisdiction. And for fiscal year 2023 budgets, we propose 
there is $198,000 for interpretation services at the Japanese 
American exclusion memorial for Bainbridge Island because we 
want to make sure we tell that story very clearly.
    It is important that we do tell this particular story so 
that we don't repeat our past, and understanding the pain we 
caused our fellow Americans in that and also be able to tell 
and celebrate the accomplishments that they made when they did 
serve during the Second World War, whether that was during the 
Italian campaign in European theater, or those who were 
interpreters for us in the Pacific.
    And so we have taken a very strong approach to this. As you 
know, the Biden administration came out with a strong 
proclamation, and we continue to bring in those stories. And we 
are very fortunate to have some that are still alive who, 
sadly, had to live that, live in those camps. But they are able 
to tell their stories firsthand still.
    Mr. Kilmer. I had an opportunity to meet with some of those 
families and, again, would love to--they have got amazing plans 
for what they would like to do in terms of interpretation and 
visitor experience. And I am sure if you ever are so inclined 
to come out and visit Olympic National Park and visit the 
Bainbridge Island Japanese American Exclusion Memorial, they 
would love to share their plans.
    Let me, with the time I have left, I wanted to ask there is 
a lot of coastal tribes, including many in my district, that 
are facing urgent threats from climate change--tsunami risk, 
persistent flooding, coastal erosion. All of these are, 
unfortunately, existential threats.
    The Hoh Tribe, for example, lives in a remote and difficult 
to access area near the Pacific coast, surrounded by the 
Olympic National Park. The majority of the tribe's developed 
land, including many homes, is located in a tsunami inundation 
zone, and unfortunately, there is only one road in and out of 
the reservation. It is frequently impassable during storms.
    In the event of a tsunami, the only option for evacuation 
is an uphill walking path that is inaccessible to tribal elders 
and others with mobility issues, and it is difficult to 
maintain, given wilderness restrictions on heavy equipment. The 
tribe has an urgent need for an evacuation route that would 
allow passage of a small vehicle to transport elders and 
others, while continuing to protect the ecological value of 
that land.
    While conversations have started at a local level to 
establish a vehicular evacuation route, how can the National 
Park Service engage with the Hoh Tribe and, frankly, other at-
risk tribes to develop emergency plans in the face of potential 
natural disaster?
    Mr. Sams. Yes, so many of the coastal tribes will face 
these issues as we see climate change and sea level rising. 
That being said, I am aware that the Hoh Tribe has proposed to 
construct a 2-mile long trail that would accommodate some 
offroad vehicles that would come to the park. The park 
continues to assess the proposal, and we are gathering more 
information. And we have discussed informally with the tribe 
what that may look like in preparation for such more formal 
consultation.
    The administration, while it hasn't taken an official 
position, is going to rely on that information that we bring 
back in from the tribes and so that we can assess that better 
and come up with a plan. I look forward to working with you and 
your staff as we come to a much more conclusion because I know 
that you are very keenly aware that the Hoh Tribe wants to move 
this as quickly as possible and most likely will deal with some 
form of legislative action that we will need in order to 
accommodate.
    Mr. Kilmer. We will look forward to partnering with you.
    And thank you, Madam Chair, for a few seconds of 
indulgence. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Absolutely. I know how important that topic is 
in your district.
    I think we have time for a couple more questions. So I will 
go back to one of mine.
    I am going to use Acadia National Park again as an example, 
but I know the issue of employee housing is serious all over 
the country and one that you really have to tackle. In Acadia, 
we welcomed 4 million visitors last year, which was nearly 3 
times our State's population. The competition for homes, 
lodging, has created a great strain on housing in the area, 
which makes it difficult to attract and retain staff.
    The budget requests $2 million to support seasonal housing 
for National Park Service employees around our national parks. 
Can you tell me how you envision addressing housing concerns, 
and how will you use that requested funding to improve housing 
shortages like we have in Maine? And as just an aside, $2 
million doesn't sound like a lot to deal with the crisis that 
we have out there.
    Mr. Sams. Affordable housing is becoming increasingly 
difficult, and that is being made very clear to me by the staff 
as I travel around the country. And it is difficult for them to 
find in gateway communities and especially for our seasonal 
employees.
    Median home purchase prices continue to rise throughout the 
United States in many of our gateway communities, and short-
term vacation rental markets are thriving and, therefore, 
taking away from our seasonal staff who usually would be able 
to find housing in our gateway communities.
    The fiscal year 2023 budget proposes an increase of $4.9 
million for new construction or rehabilitation of existing 
employee housing, where local market data show limited 
availability of affordable housing for purchase or rent. In 
fiscal year 2023, these funds would largely support 
construction of new units at the Grand Teton National Park.
    Between Grand Teton, Yellowstone, and Yosemite, we are 
really looking at best management practices, sustainable 
housing, and housing that will meet the needs of staff at 
multiple levels, whether those be seasonal or permanent staff, 
for growing families. We are going to try to bring--we most 
recently held a housing summit among the staff to bring forward 
the best ideas to determine what authorities we do have or what 
authorities we may be needing in the future.
    I look forward to reporting out more on that and trying to 
get a better understanding of what the total cost may be in the 
end. But this initial funding will help us greatly to be able 
to tackle these immediate issues, along with being able--an 
additional--the $2 million to help us be able to get leases for 
our seasonal staff so that they will have somewhere to live 
during this season or in the next season.
    Ms. Pingree. Well, thank you for making this a priority, 
and we will look forward to following up with you, as you have 
gotten a better sense with how you are going to move forward on 
some of those challenges.
    The ranking member, do you have questions?
    Mr. Joyce. No, I will submit my questions in writing so the 
Director has the opportunity to address them and defer to our 
other fellow members so they can ask questions accordingly.
    Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. All right. So we are now in a second round of 
questions, and I am not exactly sure who wants to ask, but I 
will start. Chair McCollum, do you have any questions you would 
like to ask?
    [No response.]
    Ms. Pingree. Chair Kaptur, would you like to ask a second 
question?
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    I wanted to go back to the Director and ask if one wanted 
to work with the Department of the Interior as a result of the 
infrastructure bill, as well as your current responsibilities, 
because we face the lakefront up in northern Ohio, what would 
be the framework we could use to bring together stakeholders--
the metro parks, the State parks, the wildlife refuges, the 
National Park Service--to look at a lakefront interpretation?
    I am not going to exclude the State of Michigan, but if you 
want to, that is okay with me. But I am trying to get a bigger 
picture of how we work together with common interpretation. It 
was interesting what you revealed about the immigration story 
of our region. Frankly, I think the most magnificent place in 
America, to even describe it, isn't part of the Park Service, 
but it is part of Cleveland's heritage with the Cultural 
Gardens.
    It is just magnificent, along Martin Luther King Drive in 
Cleveland. There is no--even the United Nations doesn't have 
it. Nobody in the world knows about it except the people that 
live in Cleveland. I keep telling them you have got a world 
asset here. Showcase it a little bit more.
    What experience could you offer? We have Native American 
interpretation that is a part of the settlement of the 
Northwest Territory. There is immigration. There is battles. I 
mean, how do we put the pieces of the historical puzzle 
together? What examples do you have around the country?
    Mr. Sams. Well, thank you for the question.
    I think, as we have done summits in the past, if we 
concentrated on a summit to bring all of those multiple 
stakeholders and partners together to have a more robust 
discussion along shoreline issues and the history of that, I 
think is extremely important.
    While I was out in your territory, both in Ohio and in 
Detroit, Michigan, we talked about along the Detroit River 
itself and then, of course, the lakefront. What are all of 
those stories that we still need to tell that have not been 
heard? Whether that was from folks coming on the Underground 
Railroad to first contact between Native people and non-Native 
people, French traders who have used those systems between 
Canada and the United States and what that meant for the 
building of commerce for the United States.
    I think those are all important stories that we need to be 
able to tell in a much more comprehensive manner. And similar 
to our previous discussion, I think we could be part of a 
convening group to bring a summit together to have that 
discussion.
    I would need to talk to the regional director about this a 
little bit more in depth, along with my operational staff, to 
see how we could do that. But I would welcome that opportunity, 
along with our sister bureaus, who have interest in the area 
and, of course, the States and local communities and counties 
in figuring out how best to hold a summit that would have this 
longer discussion.
    Ms. Kaptur. I would really welcome your thoughts on that, 
and I have a hunch Congressman Joyce might be equally 
interested.
    We have Native American interpretation. I learned that--I 
represent a place called Catawba Island, and I didn't know 
until I went and looked at a chart at the Native American 
Museum in Washington that it was a disappeared tribe. And I 
traced the history of why that name ended up there, even though 
the tribe was in North Carolina. I still don't understand it 
all.
    But you look at our names--Erie, Ottawa, Cuyahoga, Maumee--
these are all Native American names through our area. There is 
nothing said about that.
    So we have a lot of historical gaps here, and I think we 
need to fill them. So I am just pleased with your openness, and 
I will talk to Congressman Joyce. Maybe we can work together 
somehow here, figure out how to do that.
    I think it would be exciting, and I think we are going to 
miss an opportunity if we don't do this right with the 
infrastructure bill. Because we got communities along the coast 
trying to interconnect, you know, and trying to get the 
Cuyahoga route, Cuyahoga Valley Recreation Area, to go up to 
the lake and interconnect that way.
    So there are a lot of things happening, but nobody is 
working all together. So your leadership could really be--with 
the Fish and Wildlife Service, by the way, together. It would 
really be important from, I think, a standpoint for our region. 
We could use your help.
    Mr. Sams. Well, thank you.
    I also would invite the Department of Transportation, both 
the Federal department and the States' Departments of 
Transportation. The highway systems are the trails that were 
originally used for commerce by tribes for thousands of years, 
and so they have funding and opportunities to be able to do 
additional interpretation along those roadways.
    Ms. Kaptur. All right. Well, thank you so very much.
    Thank you, Madam Chair and members.
    Ms. Pingree. Absolutely. Representative Simpson, do you 
have a second question you would like to ask?
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you, Chairwoman.
    Not really a question, just a statement. Following up on 
what the chairwoman's question was about housing in our 
national parks and stuff, the money you have requested is 
probably not going to go very far. The way housing prices are 
going and the fact that construction prices are following that, 
I am afraid we are not going to get much done for that request.
    What I would like to see, and I am sure you guys have got 
it somewhere, is like a 5- or a 10-year plan of what the needs 
are to address this so that we could address this backlog of 
housing for our employees in our national park so that we would 
know as a committee, what do we need to commit year after year 
after year to meet that goal to get it done?
    And so if somehow you could put that together for us so 
that we would have some view into the future of what this is 
going to be--because this is going to be a challenge for a 
long, long time until we address that need. So that is just my 
suggestion.
    But I appreciate you being here today, and I look forward 
and this committee looks forward to working with you to try to 
improve the national parks that we all love.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Sams. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. I don't think any other members have 
questions. Let me just double check here. No.
    So I just want to thank you very much for the time you have 
spent with us today. Mostly, we want to take this time to just 
thank you for taking on this job. There are a lot of 
challenges, as we know, in the National Park System, but also 
it is a very exciting time with opportunities for everything 
from the Great American Outdoors Act to the real upsurge in 
interest of people who want to be in their national parks and 
participate. And I can tell that you are going to handle these 
challenges well, and we are all here to support you.
    So thank you for taking the time today, and we will look 
forward to catching up with you soon in the future.
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, members of the 
committee. It has been a pleasure.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. This hearing is now adjourned.
    [Answers to submitted questions follow:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    

                                           Wednesday, June 8, 2022.

      FISCAL YEAR 2023 BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE ARTS AND HUMANITIES

                               WITNESSES

SHELLY C. LOWE, CHAIR, NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE HUMANITIES
MARIA ROSARIO JACKSON, CHAIR, NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE ARTS
LONNIE G. BUNCH, III, SECRETARY, SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
KAYWIN FELDMAN, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL GALLERY OF ART
    Ms. Pingree. Good morning. This hearing will now come to 
order.
    I am so pleased to welcome our first panel of witnesses 
today, Shelly C. Lowe and Dr. Maria Rosario Jackson, chairs of 
the National Endowment for the Humanities and the Arts. Both 
witnesses are appearing for the first time before our 
subcommittee. Congratulations to both of you on your 
confirmation, and thank you. Today's hearing provides us with a 
chance to hear more about the great work both Endowments have 
done over the last couple of years in supporting our 
communities across the country economically, culturally, and 
educationally.
    The National Endowments for the Arts and Humanities are a 
perfect example of how the Federal Government can be a positive 
force in communities large and small in every single State. In 
your statement following your confirmation, Dr. Jackson, you 
said, ``In addition to serving an economic engine, arts and 
creativity are core to what it takes to heal our Nation, our 
communities, and ourselves,'' and I wholeheartedly agree.
    The fiscal year 2023 budget request for the National 
Endowment for the Humanities is $200.68 million, $20.68 million 
over the fiscal year 2022 enacted level. The request for the 
National Endowment for the Arts is $203.55 million, $23.55 
million over the fiscal year 2022 enacted level. These requests 
build on the vital increases in funding this committee has 
provided to the Endowments in fiscal year 2022. The enacted 
bill provided $180 million to each Endowment, an increase of 
$12.5 million apiece above fiscal year 2021. In addition, 
Congress has provided funding to both Endowments through the 
CARES Act and the American Rescue Plan. These additional 
investments total $210 million for each Endowment. This 
supplemental funding saved jobs, saved cultural institutions 
across the country, and provided an essential lifeline to 
industries hit very hard by the pandemic.
    Following the passage of the 2022 bill, Chair Lowe, you 
released a statement highlighting how that funding would help 
NEH to support cultural and educational institutions which were 
still in the midst of recovering from the pandemic, a recovery 
which still continues to this day for much of the sector. 
Furthermore, as you pointed out, that funding was designed to 
expand essential access to humanities resources to all 
Americans in this critical time. Looking forward, there is 
still more work to be done. Every dollar provided to the 
Endowments has an economic footprint many times larger on the 
community it is invested in. And as we will discuss today, 
continuing strong funding for the Endowments' work provides 
benefits to far-ranging fields from rural design and 
development to civic education.
    I am looking forward to both of your testimonies, and I 
would like to now yield to our ranking member, Mr. Joyce, for 
his opening remarks.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you for yielding, Madam Chair, and for 
holding today's hearing to discuss Arts and Humanities funding 
for fiscal year 2023. I would like to join you in welcoming our 
first panel of witnesses, Shelly Lowe, chair of the National 
Endowment for the Humanities, and Dr. Maria Rosario Jackson, 
chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts. 
Congratulations on your recent confirmations. Your stewardship 
of the Nation's arts and humanities is important and impacts 
students and communities across the country, so we appreciate 
you taking the time this morning to join us.
    I look forward to learning more about the NEH and NEA's 
goals for the upcoming year and how the fiscal year 2023 
request will enable your Agencies to support cultural 
Institutions, art organizations, and universities, and to 
provide easier access for all Americans to arts, cultural, and 
educational resources. Chair Pingree has always been a strong 
advocate for the arts, and I look forward to working with her 
and our subcommittee colleagues to continue providing NEH and 
NEA with the necessary resources, within reasonable spending 
limits, to meet their missions in fiscal year 2023.
    Thank you, Chair Pingree. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Mr. Joyce, and I would 
now like to recognize Chair Lowe then followed by Chair Jackson 
for their opening remarks. Thank you so much for being with us 
today.
    Ms. Lowe. Good morning. [Speaking native language.] Good 
morning, everybody. Good morning, Madam Chair, Mr. Ranking 
Member, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. My name 
is Shelly Lowe, and I have the honor of serving as the 12th 
chair of the National Endowment for the Humanities. I am 
pleased to be here today to speak on behalf of NEH and our 
budget request for the upcoming fiscal year.
    NEH is the only Federal agency dedicated to funding the 
humanities, to include history, philosophy, literature, 
language, archaeology, jurisprudence, and comparative religion. 
We fund numerous types of projects, such as advanced humanities 
research, leading to book publication, curriculum initiatives, 
and professional development for educators at all levels, the 
documentation and preservation of languages on the brink of 
loss, physical and digital infrastructure for cultural and 
educational institutions, along with many more endeavors 
essential to national progress and scholarship in the 
humanities.
    NEH has spent much of the past 2 years working to stabilize 
and support colleges and universities, museums, libraries, 
historic sites, public television and radio stations, 
independent researchers, and documentary filmmakers struggling 
to cope with the economic fallout of the COVID-19 pandemic, 
which we continue to grapple with to date. Thanks to funding 
from the CARES Act and the American Rescue Plan, NEH has been 
able to distribute millions in economic recovery funding, 
helping organizations retain staff, maintain programs, 
facilities, and operations, and convert physical programs into 
digital offerings to increase access even from a distance. But 
there is still much to be done, and the humanities are vital to 
rebuilding our communities, institutions, and regional 
economies.
    The NEH fiscal year 2023 budget request submitted by the 
White House is $200.68 million. This funding will allow NEH to 
continue to support the fundamental building blocks of American 
civil society and fund projects that help us examine the human 
conditions, understand our cultural heritage, foster mutual 
respect for diverse beliefs and cultures, develop media and 
information literacy, and promote civics education. And it will 
allow us to expand some of NEH's impactful initiatives and 
grant programs in fiscal year 2023. This includes providing 
additional support to projects in the humanities and for awards 
to NEH's partners in each of the 56 States and jurisdictions 
through our Federal/State Partnership Office. These projects 
reach millions of Americans in rural areas, urban neighbors, 
and suburban communities. In the last year, projects supported 
by the State and jurisdictional councils and their sub-
recipients reached more than 6.6 million participants. The 
proposed fiscal year 2023 appropriation will also enable the 
expansion of NEH's A More Perfect Union initiative, which 
builds on NEH's 57-year investment in projects that catalog, 
preserve, explore, and promote American history, and support 
the utilization of these lessons of history to address today's 
challenges.
    As NEH chair, I am deeply committed to expanding the reach 
of NEH's grant making and the projects and products we support 
so that all Americans have opportunities to participate and 
benefit from humanity-centered research, education, and public 
programs. To meet this goal, we plan to create an NEH office of 
data and evaluation to analyze the effectiveness of Agency 
programs and policies in advancing equity and support for 
underserved communities; an office of outreach to focus on 
increasing NEH's engagement with underserved communities and 
institutions; and a chief diversity officer position to advise 
the Agency on all matters of diversity, equity, inclusion, and 
access. Recognizing our changing climate, NEH is also 
developing new initiatives to study and address the impact of 
climate events on our cultural resources, museums, and historic 
sites.
    The budget request before you will allow NEH to build upon 
our current work and move the Agency forward in changing our 
world. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much. Chair Jackson, we would 
love to hear from you.
    Ms. Jackson. Thank you. Good morning, Chair Pingree, 
Ranking Member Joyce, and distinguished members of the 
subcommittee. I am grateful for your leadership and your 
support for the arts, and it is an honor to serve as chair of 
the National Endowment for the Arts and to discuss with you 
President Biden's fiscal year 2023 budget request of $203.55 
million for the NEA.
    Before doing so, I would like to share a little bit about 
myself. My commitment to the arts began at home. My father, who 
retired from the U.S. Postal Service, and my mother, who worked 
for the Los Angeles Unified School District, looked to the arts 
to teach my brother and me about the richness of our cultures. 
They wanted us to be proud and curious about our own stories 
and the stories of others. Through the arts, they wanted us to 
become aware of our similarities, our differences, and our 
shared humanity, and to understand the power of creativity, 
imagination, and entrepreneurship spirit. Those values have 
been foundational throughout my career.
    The work of the NEA is more important now than ever. The 
arts, in addition to serving as an economic engine, are 
essential to improving our children's education and to the 
well-being and health our Nation. For these reasons, advancing 
equity and access to the arts for all people is critically 
important.
    The NEA is small but mighty. Every congressional district 
benefits annually from NEA awards, and due to tremendous need 
throughout the arts sector, we must do more. This budget 
increases investments in programs that have a tangible benefit 
in your communities, allows for greater engagement with 
organizations regardless of size or zip code, and makes 
possible additional strategies that promote the health and 
well-being of people. Whether in rural or urban areas, all 
Americans should be able to participate in the arts; that is, 
to experience art works, to be expressive and make art, to 
teach and learn, to have creative outlets, and, in other words, 
to lead artful lives essential to our reaching our full 
potential as a Nation.
    The arts serve as an economic engine. In a recent study by 
the Bureau of Economic Analysis with the NEA, arts and cultural 
economic activity accounted for 4.2 percent of GDP, or $876 
billion, in 2020. That report also shows that arts workers were 
especially hard hit. While the arts have great power to fuel 
our economy, the sector requires significant support. As you 
know, the NEA received CARES Act funding of $75 million and 
American Rescue Plan funding of $135 million. As part of ARP, 
the NEA distributed resources to the six regional arts 
organizations, 56 State and jurisdictional arts agencies, and 
made awards to 66 local arts agencies for sub-granting in 38 
States. The Arts Endowment also approved grants to 
organizations in all States, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin 
Islands, and the District of Columbia. The President's budget 
builds upon past investments and recognizes the NEA's critical 
role in supporting communities. This includes programs focused 
on small- and first-time applicants and programs that 
strengthen communities through arts and design.
    Turning to education and well-being, NEA's arts education 
funding helps to close the opportunity gap for students who 
have the least access to the arts. In health, the NEA research 
labs are exploring the arts' ability to treat chronic pain, to 
delay cognitive decline among older adults, and to foster 
social and the emotional development in early childhood. 
Health-related work also includes creative forces. NEA's 
Military Healing Arts Network focuses on military and veteran 
populations exposed to trauma. Arts, culture, and design also 
play essential roles towards more inclusive and equitable 
communities by building bridges across cultures, fostering 
mutual respect, helping people enter meaningful careers, and 
much more.
    This budget will build on successful engagement with 
historically black colleges and universities and tribal 
communities, and increase outreach to Hispanic-serving 
Institutions. It will allow the NEA to continue a comprehensive 
approach to advancing equity for all Americans, including 
veterans, people with disabilities, and those in rural and 
urban areas alike.
    In closing, I want to again thank you, Chair Pingree, 
Ranking Member Joyce, and all members of the subcommittee. I 
look forward to continuing to earn the Arts Endowment's 
longstanding bipartisan support, and I am happy to take your 
questions. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you both so much. It is great to have a 
chance to have both of you in front of our committee, and we 
apologize that we had to cancel once and bring you back today. 
And we may have some members coming and going. It is a busy day 
for everyone on the Hill, especially when you reschedule to a 
time you hadn't originally planned, but we are just thrilled to 
have you here. So we will start with some questions, and I am 
going to jump right in.
    Rather than talking about your overall budget, I just want 
to talk about a couple of the specific programs that you are 
both doing, and, again, I just really appreciate the work that 
you did there. And I think it is so important to recognize the 
role that the NEA and NEH played in helping our cultural 
institutions through such difficult times as we have 
experienced during the pandemic. Many of them aren't through 
with those challenges yet, but, as you mentioned, some of the 
funding Congress was able to make available I know have been 
critically important.
    So one program I want to talk about through the NEH is the 
work that Collaborative Citizens Institute on Rural Design has 
been doing in improving the quality of life and economic 
revitalization of rural communities across the United States. I 
come from the most rural State in the Nation, and so we know 
some of the challenges that communities have had to face in 
going through extreme change. The Institute has worked with the 
community of Millinocket, which is in my home State, to empower 
the community in its economic revitalization. It has been 
pivoting from a previous focus on the paper industry to looking 
forward to what their future will be.
    So could you talk a little bit about how the work of the 
Institute promotes economic strength in communities alongside 
building community cohesion?
    Ms. Jackson. Absolutely. Thank you, Chair Pingree. It is 
good to see you again. The Citizens Institute on Rural Design, 
having a planning background myself, is one of the programs 
that really calls my attention at the Arts Endowment. And the 
strength of it is the network of citizens and leaders who have 
the opportunity to delve into design principles, to better 
understand what is possible in terms of community development 
in rural areas. So this includes exchanging best practices 
across the country, being able to access design resources that 
wouldn't otherwise be available to them. It is helpful in 
getting organizations ready to compete effectively for funding 
in design and the arts, among other fields, because it 
strengthens the ability to do problems solving and to think 
imaginatively about what is possible.
    So certainly, again, the ability to have citizens and 
leaders come together, draw from other resources, and also 
exercise their imagination in understanding what could be 
possible in their communities is really an important feature.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah thank you for that, and I do really 
appreciate your planning background to bring something 
completely different to this important program. I just want to 
talk a little bit about the NIH about the Infrastructure and 
Capacity Building Challenge Grants. The request is for $1.7 
million over enacted, and can you tell us a little bit, Chair 
Lowe, about how the NEH leverages Federal dollars to catalyze 
non-Federal investment in humanities projects through the use 
of those Challenge Grants?
    Ms. Lowe. Absolutely. Thank you for that important 
question. One of the unique aspects of NEH in our grant-funding 
lines are the ability for projects, institutions, organizations 
to apply for Challenge Grants or Infrastructure Grants, and 
these are large grants. These are large projects. And what we 
do is we require a matching set of funding from outside 
entities, non-Federal entities. So when an institution applies 
to these grants and they are awarded through NEH, because we 
have such a rigorous evaluation process, we often have entities 
come to us to say, well, that gives us kind of a stamp of 
approval, you know. We have gone through this very rigorous 
application process. We have been deemed to have a very good 
project. This amount of funding will come from NEH. Now we can 
go out and we can ask for private funding and/or State funding, 
philanthropic funding, individual funding to help support these 
amazing projects to come to fruition. So it really does allow 
us to use our Federal funding to say these are excellent 
projects that are going on out there and allow those 
individuals to seek private funding for those projects.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah, that is so great. I mean, given the 
small amount of funding that the NEH has overall, it just seems 
critically important that we help communities to leverage more 
and seek other sources of funds out there. I will yield back my 
time and recognize Ranking Member Joyce for his question.
    Mr. Joyce. As always, thank you, Madam Chair. Chair 
Jackson, welcome. I am always impressed by the work your Agency 
carries out through Creative Forces: NEA's military healing 
arts network to help our military and our veteran populations 
exposed to trauma as well as their family and caregivers. Can 
you discuss how Creative Forces has expanded over the years and 
the impact it has had on military families and veterans, and, 
if you could, how the fiscal year 2023 request continues to 
support these efforts?
    Ms. Jackson. Thank you for that question, Ranking Member 
Joyce. The Creative Forces Program is an amazing initiative, as 
you well know. It has grown over the last 10, 12 years to have 
12 sites all over the country. It is a collaboration between 
the Department of Defense and Veterans Affairs. And the impact 
that it has had not only on military personnel who have 
experienced trauma, but, by extension, their families and 
communities, has been documented in ways that are credible 
scientifically. I think it is a remarkable program that has the 
capacity to inspire other ways of understanding the arts in 
society in general. It is one of the things that I am very 
excited about is what we are learning from that work at the 
intersection of arts and health through the military and its 
application in those communities for sure and beyond.
    One of the ways that the program is expanding is there is a 
grant program now that is focused on community resources that 
are available to expand the work beyond the sites that are 
based in military facilities. So bringing more and more people 
into the fold as we think about individual healing and 
community healing, I think, is critically important, and 
Creative Forces is such a source for the military community, 
and, I think, also beyond.
    Mr. Joyce. How did the NEA and its partners continue 
providing therapy and care throughout the pandemic? What 
lessons were learned that will help this program in the long 
run?
    Ms. Jackson. Thank you for that question. There was great 
care to ensure that there would not be disruptions in 
treatment. And I think innovations were made in terms of 
delivery of services through technology, through the internet, 
applications that didn't exist before and are now available to 
us as options, because we had depended in so many ways to 
rearrange our lives and the way we work. So there are a host of 
teleservices, if you will, that are now options for these 
programs that weren't available before.
    Mr. Joyce. That is great. Thank you very much. Chair Lowe, 
I understand that you grew up in a small Navajo community in 
Northeast Arizona where you saw firsthand the impact that the 
humanities can have on individuals and communities in rural 
America. In your role as chair, how do you hope to expand NEH's 
reach to more children and communities across the country and 
ensure that humanity resources are more evenly distributed 
throughout the country?
    Ms. Lowe. Thank you for that question. This is very close 
to my heart. As you said, I did grow up in a very small, very 
rural community, and having been on the National Council for 6 
years, I paid a lot of attention to where our NEH funding had 
been going, but, more particularly, to where our NIH funding 
had not been going, and not for the fault of the Agency, but 
more so that applications were not coming in from rural areas 
and small institutions.
    So it is a big goal of mine to ensure that the work that we 
do is going to be reaching smaller communities and rural 
communities, and this will be done in a couple of different 
manners. One, we hope to very much create an office of data and 
evaluation that will look at where we have been doing our 
funding, where we haven't been doing our funding, and with 
that, create an office of outreach. And that office of outreach 
will help us to get into those communities and share 
information about the Agency with those communities we have not 
yet served.
    And, in particular, when it comes to serving children and 
young people, which I think is extremely important when it 
comes to humanities, particularly civics education, we have 
done a very large grant with the Department of Education for a 
civics education program, Educating for American Democracy, 
which created a roadmap that schools, communities, institutions 
can use to create civics education that fit their population. 
So that will fit rural communities as opposed to urban 
communities, that they can really make it something that is 
theirs and really kind of points to the specific important 
topics that they need to be addressing in their communities. I 
am also very interested in supporting National History Day and 
making sure that our State and jurisdictional humanities 
councils are able to get into those rural communities, that 
they have access to and really start to encourage National 
History Day in the high schools and get students to be looking 
at history projects. The third way that we do a lot of outreach 
into communities, and we are hoping to make sure to make 
inroads, is to support our Edsitement, our online curriculum 
program, and making sure that people have access to that.
    Mr. Joyce. Great. Thank you very much. I yield back with no 
time I have left. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Always have time for you. Chair McCollum, do 
you have questions today?
    [No response.]
    Ms. Pingree. I think you are muted.
    Ms. McCollum. All right. The clock is going to give me back 
my 5 seconds I hope. Anyways, thank you so much for 
rescheduling this meeting with the chair of the national 
endowments, and, Chair Pingree, thank you very much for all the 
work that you did to make sure that we had a healthy budget for 
both panels that are appearing today.
    So it has been really important what we have done during 
the pandemic, especially with the crisis facing our Nation with 
the role of the arts and the humanities in here. The Rescue 
Plan, I have to give both of your organizations kudos for your 
previous leadership in making sure that money was out in a 
flexible way to support arts and humanities organizations, who, 
as we know, suffered greatly being the type of nonprofits that 
they are in local communities. So thank you for that. And I 
know I have got two libraries in St. Paul that are very excited 
that serve underrepresented communities and hope that if you 
are ever out, you know, that you can come visit our libraries. 
That would be great. And Springboard for the Arts was just such 
a catalyst, and I know they will appreciate the grant that they 
received from the NEA because they helped coordinate with 
nonprofits, the State, in how to make sure that pandemic money 
went out.
    Mr. Joyce was asking about the work that you do with the 
Department of Defense and Veterans Affairs. I chair the Defense 
Subcommittee on Appropriations, and we are going to be reaching 
out to both of you about maybe some of the work that you have 
looked at or groups you have been approached on suicide 
prevention. We have done a lot with traumatic brain injury, and 
healing, and things like that, but also some maybe work we can 
do together with money, Madam Chair, from the Defense 
Department. I am going to make the dollars stretch for 
everyone.
    So, Chair Lowe and Chair Jackson, could you just kind of 
give me a snapshot of where you think you are going to have to 
go with some of the challenges that you are still facing with 
some of the organizations that you work with as we go through 
the recovery, as we are dealing with inflation, and as we are 
dealing with, you know, rebuilding institutions? Just some of 
the things that we should be aware of as a committee here to be 
supportive of the work you are doing in our communities. I am a 
former teacher. I am not going to call on who goes first. You 
women can decide amongst yourselves.
    [No response.]
    Ms. McCollum. You got the Minnesota nice thing going on. 
Okay. Chair Lowe, take it.
    Ms. Lowe. Thanks for that wonderful question, and I think 
that you are absolutely right. We are still trying to identify 
the needs of our communities, the needs of our humanities 
institutions, particularly as we start to come out of the 
pandemic. But we are not yet out of the pandemic as we see 
inflation and costs rising after all that we have been through 
the past couple of years. I really want to, first, you know, 
acknowledge our staff who really got down, and got to work, and 
got the CARES and ARP funding out, and were very cognizant of 
the needs of institutions. But we understood and what we have 
found is that the need is much larger than what we have to be 
able to support. So we are going to continue to see 
institutions coming to us with really, really big needs and 
asks for things that they have to either rebuild, reopen, or 
reestablish after the pandemic.
    We are being very clear to work with our Office of General 
Management and also in thinking about how do we support BABA--
Buy America, Build America/Build America, Buy America--and make 
sure that we can support these projects in the best way 
possible, but also make sure that we are leveraging our funding 
in the best way possible to support these projects that are 
coming forward. I think there is going to be a challenge that 
we are going to have to be really looking at and paying 
attention to. And at NEH, in particular, our new office of data 
and evaluation will help us to really assess those challenges 
and those needs.
    Ms. McCollum. Chair Jackson, anything you would like to 
add?
    Ms. Jackson. Just, as Chair Lowe said, to give accolades to 
the staff at the NEA that did a remarkable job in getting that 
money out to really deserving organizations and helped to keep 
things going. In addition to that, I think one of the 
challenges is to harvest the lessons of the last few years and 
resist the urge to just snap back to business as usual. So I 
think that is one of the challenges, and I really do hope to 
advance the work of the NEA as a national partner, not only 
through our grant making but through our ability to convene, 
our ability to disseminate information and be a partner with 
other national entities and local players in building healthy 
arts ecosystems.
    Ms. McCollum. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going 
to try to come in and out for the second panel as I do have a 
conflict with Natural Resources. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah, thank you very much. Representative 
Simpson, do you have some questions today?
    Mr. Simpson. More comments than questions or anything, but 
I always like this hearing because the Endowments are one of my 
favorite organizations, both of them, that do such great work. 
And, you know, sadly, it is probably underrecognized by the 
American people the importance of the work that you do out 
there. One of my advocacies is to make sure that we get grants 
and so forth out to rural communities because, you know, I have 
often said, and I don't mean it 100 percent, but, you know, New 
York and Los Angeles don't need a lot from the arts. They have 
got arts there, and they have got benefactors and everything 
else. But you get into rural America, and I was surprised to 
learn just a minute ago that Maine is the most rural State. I 
always thought Idaho was one of the most rural States, but we 
both grow potatoes, so that is okay.
    But I do want to thank you for the work that you did in 
making sure that these local organizations could survive during 
this pandemic because it was critical to a lot them. And I am 
hopeful that, before long, we can get back to normal where we 
can actually have a hearing in person and talk to you face to 
face and stuff. And I can't wait till we restart the Authors 
Program that the Humanities helps fund in Idaho. And I tell 
you, they are so well attended and so appreciated by the public 
as they go around the State and put on these various things, 
and I have talked to several art museums and local arts 
council. In fact, I talk with one member of an arts council 
almost every night, and my wife serves on the Idaho Falls Arts 
Council, so she gets involved in that. So I have learned a 
great deal about the importance of the help that you have given 
these organizations in making sure that they can make it 
through some very, very difficult times.
    You know, I have always found it kind of interesting that 
our committee, even when I was chair and even before that, we 
looked at the Arts and Humanities Councils, and we give them 
the same appropriation. I noticed that you have requested 
different appropriations this year, one for $200 million and 
one for $203 million. I don't know what is going on there, but 
ultimately, I suspect that they will be the same in the long 
run. But how much of the current $167.5 million in this year's 
budget goes to local communities and grants to State and local 
communities in both the arts and humanities?
    Ms. Lowe. I can probably answer that. Thank you for that 
question, Representative Simpson. Forty percent of the NEH 
budget goes directly to our State and jurisdictional humanities 
councils. And, you know, I want to say that they have been 
great partners. They have been extremely excited about some of 
the propositions that NEH has for the fiscal year 2023 budget. 
They are very much looking forward to working with our new 
office of data and evaluation and the office of outreach, and 
we know that they do amazing work getting our name and our work 
into the smaller rural community, so we are very excited to 
continue that work.
    Ms. Jackson. And I would say, similarly, 40 percent goes to 
State arts agencies, regional arts organizations for sub-
granting. We really appreciate the partnerships that we have 
with those agencies because they are proximate to the places 
where the investment should go, so they actually have a level 
of information and knowledge that is more difficult for the 
distance. So very grateful for their collaboration in this.
    Mr. Simpson. Is the 40 percent statutory, or is that just 
what we do?
    Ms. Lowe. Forty percent is statutory.
    Mr. Simpson. Statutory? So if you got the $200 million or 
$203 million that that is being requested by the Arts, you are 
looking at probably an increase of, I calculate it and I was 
never a math genius, but about $13 million more that would go 
out to grants and so forth for local communities and stuff.
    Ms. Lowe. It would increase the amount to sustain 
jurisdictional humanities councils, yes.
    Mr. Simpson. Do you think the 40-percent level is the right 
level between the Federal Government and the State and local 
communities, or could you increase that percentage that goes 
out to local agencies?
    Ms. Lowe. What we find is that the projects that NEH funds 
through the funding that does not go to the State and 
jurisdiction humanities councils go to nationwide projects that 
then support all populations across all the States. So a lot of 
our funding for nationwide projects allow individuals in any 
State to access materials and research freely online, or to 
develop documentaries that are available to everybody online. 
So at the moment, we want to ensure that we have enough funding 
to have those large national projects while still supporting 
our State and jurisdictional councils.
    Mr. Simpson. Same with the Arts?
    Ms. Jackson. Yes, it is a similar story.
    Mr. Simpson. Okay. Well, listen, I appreciate what you do, 
and I would love to entertain you out in Idaho. I think the 
last four NEA directors have been out to Idaho, and we have had 
a great time with them out there. And so anytime you can make 
it, we would love to have you out there and show you around a 
great State, and what they are doing in Idaho and what you are 
doing in Idaho. So I appreciate it. Thanks for being here 
today.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Mr. Simpson. Thank you 
for your, you know, eloquent support for the arts in rural 
States. I have no idea who rates the States as most rural, and 
I won't conjecture that it is because of the quality of their 
potatoes, but we will just see. I will find out how that rating 
system gets done, but we all know Idaho is a very rural State, 
so we both are thinking the same way about this.
    So, Representative Lee, do you have questions today?
    Mrs. Lee of Nevada. Yes, I do. Thank you, Chair Pingree and 
Ranking Member Joyce. I also want to thank the chairs for being 
here. It is great to be able to speak to both of you. I am 
proud to represent Las Vegas in Southern Nevada, which is the 
epicenter of our country's creative and cultural economies, 
renowned for unforgettable experiences and memories that we 
provide annually to tens of millions of visitors from around 
the world.
    Chair Lowe, I wanted to ask you, acknowledging that much of 
NEH's funding is delivered not directly to projects but through 
humanities councils, such as the Nevada Humanities. And in my 
State, this council has been incredibly effective in getting 
the humanities funding exactly where it needs to go. So could 
you talk about how NEH's support for State humanities councils 
allows these councils, or the Federal funding, to be leveraged 
several times over at a local level, serving as seed money that 
enables these councils to be able to use that to raise 
additional funds to advance programming and projects beyond 
those funded directly by NEH?
    Ms. Lowe. Sure. Thank you so much for that question. Our 
funding that goes to State and jurisdictional humanities 
councils allows the councils to do a number of things. One is 
to provide their own programming, which they use our funding to 
do public speaker events, to do major events in certain 
locations, libraries, museums. But the second thing that the 
funding allows each council to do is to provide then regranting 
funds to organizations, usually small, local, rural 
organizations, and these funds can do one of two things. They 
can provide planning grants that allow these organizations to 
really develop some programs and to develop even fundraising 
ideas and avenues to build these programs. The second thing 
that it does is it allows programs to then start small, and to 
then bring in outside funders who see the impact of these 
programs within the State and within the communities, and then 
bring in additional funding to support and/or even sometimes 
endow of the programs that move forward.
    Mrs. Lee of Nevada. Thank you. Yeah, I have been the 
beneficiary of many of those programs and being able to enjoy 
them in our community, so I appreciate that. Chair Jackson, my 
State is not alone in facing a mental health crisis, especially 
as a result of this pandemic. A recent survey released last 
month found that close to 6 out of 10 Americans have 
experienced concerns either about their own mental health or 
that of families and friends, and this is up 9 percent since 
the spring of 2020. You have said that you are especially 
excited about the growing body of work that the NEA is doing in 
advancing the intersection of arts and health, and I wanted to 
ask you if you could please speak to how you believe the NEA is 
positioned to improve Americans' mental health in particular, 
especially through the intersection with the arts.
    Ms. Jackson. Thank you for that question, Representative 
Lee. There are several things that are happening at the NEA 
that I think are relevant to your interest. One, of course, is 
Creative Forces, which was discussed a bit earlier. Another is 
the Sound Health Network, which is a collaboration of the NEA, 
the University of California-San Francisco, the National 
Institute of Health, the Kennedy Center, and Renee Fleming. And 
it is a national resource center that helps with connecting 
research, public awareness, and actual services on music, 
health, and wellness.
    This month, they are actually having a gathering of 
neuroscientists, music therapists, musicians, and health 
professionals to examine evidence about music and mental 
health. So that is an example of, I think, powerful players 
coming together to develop a national resource and hopefully 
create some other ways of thinking about how to address mental 
health issues, and how to frame them in ways that we can 
actually make a difference. That is one of the things that I 
find most powerful about the arts is the ability to reframe 
issues and think of different ways of arriving at solutions, 
and health is a really important area where that is possible.
    Mrs. Lee of Nevada. Thank you, Chair Jackson. I couldn't 
agree more. I think this is an exciting body of research and 
looking forward to that. And with that, I will yield back. 
Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. Representative Kaptur, do you have 
questions today?
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I wanted to welcome 
Chair Lowe and Dr. Jackson. Thank you so very much. I also 
begin with a deep thanks for sending such talented people out 
to our region to have a discussion about how to better relate 
across Northern Ohio, from Cleveland to Toledo, to your 
instrumentalities. We can keep doing better at that in our 
region.
    My first question, and I have a couple, relates to Chair 
Lowe on the potential to do more to collect the stories of 
Americans who trace their heritage to Eastern and Central 
Europe. I am wondering, especially given the war in Ukraine and 
the focus of our country in the world on that, how your Agency 
might use funding from the budget request to help support the 
archival, a collection of stories documents and other materials 
from America's cultural diasporas, who have come from that part 
of the world to our country, most of the countries of the 
former Soviet Union. For example, I accidentally discovered a 
Slovak museum, Czech museum, in Iowa, a Lithuanian museum in 
Chicago, a Ukrainian museum in Cleveland, and a Polish Piosk 
museum in Hamtramck, Michigan. And as I sort of dug into it, I 
found out that our Library of Congress, our major humanities 
organizations, don't really relate to them in any kind of 
coherent manner.
    And so my first question is, you know, what might we do 
better in terms of administering collaborative humanities 
research and maybe a set of exchanges between American scholars 
who are knowledgeable of these collections, and even extending 
to some of the scholars that, you know, that may exist in that 
part of the world, and how we might shape an initiative like 
that.
    And then, Dr. Jackson, I want to ask a question about 
marketing of the arts. Between Cleveland and Toledo, we 
probably have 10,000 artists. They are phenomenal. I think 
artists are left brain people and marketers are right brain 
people, and I think we have a little trouble getting the arts 
elevated. And I am wondering any kind of direction you might be 
able to give to local arts communities on how to do a better 
job of marketing and also protecting their trademark or their 
patents. I don't like the idea that regions like mine may be 
left behind to the larger, wealthier metropolitan areas. And a 
related concern is, for the 40 percent of your funding 
distributed to State arts agencies and regional arts 
organizations, how consciously do we direct the States to make 
sure to be equitable in the way that those dollars are 
distributed so that all communities have the opportunity to 
participate and, you know, to be respected? I have one museum, 
and the African-American community in Toledo wants to do some 
work for set of collections there, or a major jazz center and 
so forth, and, boy, it has been so hard to get the State of 
Ohio to do anything.
    So those are my questions, and I will listen for any 
insights. And, again, thank you for coming out to our region 
and introducing yourselves.
    Ms. Lowe. Thank you much, Representative Kaptur. You know, 
I want to start with saying that myself and the staff at NEH, 
our hearts and our minds are with the people of Ukraine, and 
with everything that has been going on. There are a number of 
ways that NEH can support the preservation of oral history and 
the culture of Eastern Europe. We can do that through our 
Division of Preservation and Access programs through grants 
that institutions, like you named, could come in and apply for. 
We can do it through the State and jurisdictional humanities 
councils, who may want to do the same thing, particularly with 
immigrants who are coming into their communities. We can 
provide grants to help do oral history projects. We can also do 
interagency agreements that allow us to really specify and look 
at a particular project and work with other agencies to make 
sure that we can move that forward. So there are a number of 
instances or things that we do.
    The last thing we can do, which is a little bit more quick 
than our regular grant programs, is we have Chairs Grants. And 
Chairs Grants at the moment can be initiated to really address 
the issues of Eastern European individuals, particularly those 
coming into the United States, in trying to capture their 
stories and experiences.
    Ms. Kaptur. Have you ever worked with the Library of 
Congress on the veterans history collection there that relates 
to World War II, the World War II Veterans History collection, 
and trying to connect why America fought that war, why so many 
Americans gave their lives? Are you aware of any effort through 
the Humanity?
    Ms. Lowe. We have done many projects with the Library of 
Congress. I would have to connect with the staff to have to 
find out specifically on that, and we will get back to you.
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you. Thank you so much.
    Ms. Kaptur. Dr. Jackson.
    Ms. Jackson. Just to comment on your question about 
distribution of resources of the 40 percent, thank you for that 
question, Representative Kaptur. We work closely with the 
National Assembly of State Arts Agencies. That is the 
professional organization that supports the 56 State and 
jurisdictional agencies in our country, and they have a strong 
research office, which, together with ours, tracks the NEA 
grantmaking through State and regional partnerships. Mapping 
that data helps us better understand distributions and 
disparities. So we are very aware of your concern and eager to 
continue using that tool to help us understand how to make sure 
that we are working in an equitable fashion. I am very grateful 
for the National Assembly of State Arts Agencies and the 
capacity to be able to do that.
    On your question related to artists and marketing----
    Ms. Kaptur. Yes.
    Ms. Jackson. Yeah, I think it is important to look to the 
local and regional entities that exist as artists support 
systems, in some ways. Connections to small business 
associations, to other resources that one may not think of as 
exclusively for artists could be beneficial. Certainly artists 
have particular needs as it relates to programming and to the 
marketing of their contributions. I think in many areas, there 
are intermediary organizations that could be strengthened to 
help artists do that kind of business development, whether they 
are working in the nonprofit realm or meandering between 
nonprofit and for-profit. The ability to have resources to help 
them construct their careers is really important.
    Ms. Kaptur. Yes, Doctor. On that marketing issue, if you 
could send me examples around the country of where some places 
are doing it well.
    Ms. Jackson. I will get back to you. Yes, I am happy to get 
back to you with that.
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Chair Kaptur, and at this 
point, I think we will thank our panel. We had time for one 
round of questions, and we certainly appreciate that.
    And just before I end the panel, I want to ask unanimous 
consent from the members present at the hearing today to enter 
into the hearing record testimony from AFL-CIO Department of 
Professional Employees. This testimony highlights the 
importance of funding for the Endowments, the economic benefits 
that funding provides, and the importance of promoting 
diversity in these industries.
    Hearing no objection, the document will be entered into the 
record.
    Ms. Pingree. So I want to thank both witnesses for 
appearing before us today. We appreciate your testimony, your 
answers to our questions. And just thank you very much for the 
work you are doing, and we are going to continue to look 
forward to working with you as a committee as we go through our 
budget process. So thank you so much for being with us today.
    Mr. Simpson. Chairwoman Pingree.
    Ms. Pingree. Yes.
    Mr. Simpson. Could I just make a quick statement----
    Ms. Pingree. Of course you can. Absolutely.
    Mr. Simpson. To Chairwoman Lowe, Jim Leach, who used to be 
the chairman of the Humanities for years, served in Congress 
with us, when he started, he went out on a project on trying to 
ensure civility in this country. If there is ever a time when 
that initiative needs to be restarted or it needs to be worked 
on, I would encourage you to do it now because it is now more 
necessary than ever before.
    Ms. Lowe. Thank you, Representative Simpson. I agree, and I 
think that this is very much a priority for the Agency and for 
myself as we move forward.
    Mr. Simpson. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. A very good point to make at this moment in 
time, so thank you for that. And with that, we will allow our 
panel to depart and get back to their busy days, and look 
forward to hearing from our second panel, who I am assuming are 
with us.
    Ms. Jackson. Thank you all.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you so much.
    Ms. Lowe. Thank you. Have a wonderful morning.
    Ms. Pingree. You, too.
    Ms. Pingree. So I would like to welcome our second panel--
Secretary Lonnie G. Bunch, III, the 14th secretary of the 
Smithsonian Institution, and Kaywin Feldman, the director of 
National Gallery of Art--who are joining us to discuss their 
fiscal year 2023 budget request and their collaborative 
projects.
    I want to note that this is Secretary Bunch's first time 
testifying before the committee, so I am eager for the 
opportunity to learn more about your vision for the 
Institution. In 2021, the Smithsonian celebrated a milestone, 
its 175th anniversary. We hope today's hearing will provide an 
opportunity for you to discuss how you imagine the treasures, 
research, data, and scholarship of the Smithsonian will be used 
to achieve your mission, the increase and diffusion of 
knowledge in the next 175 years. The 2023 budget request is 
$1.75 billion, an increase of $112 million over the fiscal year 
2022-enacted level. We look forward to discussing how this 
requested increase will support the Smithsonian's digital 
transformation, educational goals, robust research programs, 
and make essential investments in both the facilities and the 
workforce.
    The fiscal year 2023 National Gallery of Art budget request 
is $209 million, an increase of $28.7 million over the fiscal 
year 2022-enacted level. The fiscal year 2023 budget request 
represents an exciting time of change for the National Gallery 
as it moves forward with both renovations to the main Gallery 
buildings as well as the construction of the Pod 6 joint 
storage facility in cooperation and with the Smithsonian. 
Furthermore, the Gallery's budget includes strategic 
investments in additional staff to support its work to advance 
racial equity from the artists whose work is being displayed to 
the Gallery staff and audience.
    According to the Gallery's budget request, in fiscal year 
2019, over 7 million people benefited from the Gallery's online 
presence, and over 33 million people utilize free educational 
resources from the Gallery. In addition to the broad engagement 
these statistics show, the Gallery makes hundreds of art loans 
available across the country to benefit Americans beyond those 
that can make the trip to visit the Gallery in person. I look 
forward to hearing more about your efforts to expand this 
engagement and work towards your other priorities, Director 
Feldman.
    Secretary Bunch and Director Feldman, I appreciate the work 
that you and the employees of the Smithsonian and National 
Gallery do to advance the civic, educational, scientific, and 
artistic life of this Nation. I look forward to your testimony 
this afternoon and to hearing more about your plans for your 
organizations and through the next fiscal year.
    I would like to yield to our ranking member, Mr. Joyce, for 
his opening remarks.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you again for yielding, Madam Chair, and 
welcome, Secretary Bunch and Director Feldman. We appreciate 
you joining us this morning to discuss the budget priorities 
for the Smithsonian Institution and the National Gallery of Art 
for fiscal year 2023. I think it is fair to say that you have 
the most interesting jobs in Washington. You are entrusted with 
the challenging responsibility of operating and maintaining two 
of our Nation's most revered and visited institutions. Each 
year, millions of visitors, both in person and online, access 
your treasured collections. Through your exhibitions and 
outreach programs, you have inspired children and scholars 
across the globe to discover new knowledge, experience art, and 
explore the world around them.
    Today, I look forward to understanding how the fiscal year 
2023 budget supports your Agencies' priorities for the coming 
year, reasonably builds upon the investments Congress provided 
in fiscal year 2022, and ensures that your facilities are 
properly maintained to reduce risks to your collections, 
visitors, and employees. In particular, I would like to discuss 
progress on development of your shared off-site storage 
facility, as well as the multiyear renovation of the 
Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum. Over the coming 
months, I look forward to working with you and my subcommittee 
colleagues to provide the Smithsonian and National Gallery with 
the necessary resources to ensure that both of your invaluable 
collections are protected and maintained for future 
generations. I look forward to our discussion.
    Thank you, Chair Pingree. I yield back.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Mr. Joyce. Now I would 
like to yield to Secretary Bunch and then Director Feldman for 
their opening remarks.
    Mr. Bunch. Thank you very much. Congresswoman Pingree, 
Ranking Member Joyce, and members of the subcommittee, thank 
you for the opportunity to testify before you today about the 
Smithsonian's fiscal year 2023 budget request. I realize it is 
a sizable request, but to accomplish what you have asked of us 
requires a robust budget, especially as we recover from the 
fiscal challenges of the pandemic. With two new museums on the 
horizon, big renovation plans, existing maintenance 
requirements, and the need to expand our reach, relevance, and 
impact, it is critical we can count on the full support of 
Congress.
    My priorities for the Smithsonian are based on my 
conviction that our shared future as a Nation depends more than 
ever on our ability to work together, and that the Smithsonian 
can play an important role in giving people the tools to 
confront our greatest challenges. As such, our strategic focus 
priorities can be viewed through the lens of the impact they 
will have on our shared future. We clearly want to ensure every 
home and every classroom can have access to the Smithsonian's 
digital content. We want to work together to build a more 
nimble, more effective Smithsonian. We want to be a trusted 
source that explores and grapples with what it means to be an 
American, and we want to harness Smithsonian expertise to 
elevate science in the global discourse. And finally, we want 
to build and enrich a national culture of learning by engaging 
with educational systems nationwide.
    We have several Institution-wide initiatives that touch on 
these priorities. Most of those were sped up as a result of the 
pandemic. To outline just a few, one exploring the American 
experience will form local partnerships to promote discussion 
and dialogue with underreached rural audiences, and another 
already underway is increasing the use of audience-driven data 
to inform our decision makings. And to be a nimbler 
Smithsonian, we are developing the policies and toolkits 
necessary to implement flexible work practices.
    Our newest museums--the National Museum of the American 
Latino and the Smithsonian American Women's History Museum--
present an opportunity to put all these into practice. They can 
model what a modern museum should be: truly digital, 
impressively nimble, with rich educational platforms that spur 
conversations and improve communities. These museums, though, 
are a lifetime-shared commitment between Congress and the 
Smithsonian, increasing our need for collection space, 
maintenance, and staffing in perpetuity. I am confident that 
your full support will allow them to be the exemplars for 
decades to come.
    We must also face the condition of our existing buildings 
and collection storage spaces when planning. Deferred 
maintenance is concerning since it threatens our collections. 
Our most important facilities management issues are controlling 
environmental conditions and preventing water from broaching 
some of our buildings. Your ongoing support will help us 
strategically apply our maintenance funds and capital projects 
towards aging infrastructure. With nearly one-half of our 
current backlog in the Air and Space Museum and in the 
Smithsonian Castle, our planned revitalizations will address 
the most pressing concerns. And given the extra space 
necessitated by the new museums and by the Hirshhorn and 
American History's revitalization projects, the expansion of 
both the Suitland and Dulles sites are vital. One near-term 
capital project is the New Museum Support Center Pod 6 that 
will be a shared storage space for us and the National Gallery 
of Art. The President's fiscal year 2023 budget addresses some 
of these challenges, and your support and guidance gives me 
confidence in our future success.
    Recently, the National Science Foundation announced the 
creation of an image of a supermassive black hole in the center 
of the Milky Way. The Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory 
played a key role in that image, an example of the cutting-edge 
collaborative work that we do at the Smithsonian. Whether it is 
giving students and teachers tools to understand history, 
whether it is bringing people together to discuss issues that 
affect their communities, or peering across the stars for a 
clearer look at our galaxy, our work benefits everyone. With 
your help, we will be able to continue to increase and diffuse 
knowledge for another 175 years.
    Thank you for holding this hearing, for your ongoing 
support, and for your commitment to working with us for a 
better shared future. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you. Director Feldman.
    Ms. Feldman. Chair Pingree, Ranking Member Joyce, members 
of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify 
today. It is my great pleasure to talk to you about the 
National Gallery of Art and our fiscal year 2023 Federal budget 
request. I would also like to thank you for your support of our 
fiscal year 2022 budget that provided the necessary funds to 
keep the National Gallery operational during this challenging 
time.
    Like the Nation we serve, the National Gallery has endured 
2 tumultuous years marked by a global pandemic. We became adept 
at pivoting to keep the museum available for our visitors, and 
despite closings and re-openings, our 2021 calendar year 
attendance was 1.7 million, which is the 2nd largest attendance 
for an art museum in the United States, and the 5th largest 
globally. I am delighted to share some of the ways we have 
innovated during this time to return to and expand on our 
regular operations.
    Through robust engagement across our digital channels, we 
increased digital attendance by over 50 percent. Our website 
and social media platforms featured 360-degree virtual tours, a 
new storytelling blog, a podcast that brought musicians 
together with works of art, and a fresh approach to video on 
YouTube. And online, we reimagined our popular educational 
lesson plans to serve teachers working with remote classrooms. 
These educator resources reached nearly 1 million individuals 
in fiscal year 2020, which is a 200 percent increase. Onsite in 
April, we opened Afro-Atlantic Histories, which takes an in-
depth look at the historical experiences and cultural 
formations of black and African people through the eyes of 
artists since the 17th century. I have been moved by several of 
our long-serving staff who have mentioned how wonderful it is 
to see their own story on our walls for the first time. I hope 
you all have an opportunity to see this important presentation 
before it closes on July 17.
    We have seven additional exhibitions opening, including 
American Silence: The Photographs of Robert Adams, featuring 
works that show us the wonder of the American West, which I 
know is a subject that this subcommittee knows very well. Later 
in 2022, we will offer a wide range of presentations, including 
works by Whistler, Sargent, and Carpaccio, and the exhibitions 
``The Double: Identity and Difference in Art Since 1900,'' and 
``Called to Create: Black Artists of the American South.'' The 
National Gallery has a long history of loaning works of art to 
American museums to share the Nation's fine arts collection 
with as many Americans as possible. In 2021, the Gallery loaned 
285 artworks to 88 museums in cities across the United States.
    With immense gratitude to you, our public partners in 
Congress, and the administration, we made significant progress 
on the master facilities plan, and the East Building atrium 
skylight has been replaced, and the iconic building will reopen 
on June 30. We can literally and metaphorically see daylight 
again. Visitors will now enter through a more accessible main 
entrance, find a separate elevator lobby within the newly-
refurbished auditorium and access to additional restrooms. We 
are also advancing our partnership with the Smithsonian for the 
shared art storage facility that Secretary Bunch mentioned, 
known as Pod 6. This project is our highest priority in the 
fiscal year 2023 request. We will no longer rely on a third-
party provider for inadequate offsite art storage, and it will 
allow us to have capacity for collections growth for the 
foreseeable future while also permitting galleries currently 
used for art storage to be reopened to the public.
    Our fiscal year 2023 budget request for renovation also 
includes funds to continue to address much-needed and overdue 
stone repair work and to finish portions of the West Building 
roof, and we have much more to do. We have mapped out a 
strategic plan for the next 18 months that will strengthen our 
mission, expanding the understanding of our audiences and our 
ability to reach them.
    Your commitment confirms our role is a truly national 
gallery. We welcome you, your constituents, and our audiences 
from around the world to explore our galleries, collections, 
and programs, which connect us all to triumphs of creativity 
and our shared humanity. Thank for your ongoing support of the 
National Gallery of Art and for the opportunity to speak with 
you today. I am happy to answer any questions you have. Thank 
you.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you both so much for your testimony 
before us, but also for the work that you are doing and the 
amazing work you have done during the pandemic, and all the 
challenges that it has brought to us.
    I am going to go right to Ranking Member Joyce for the 
first question.
    Mr. Joyce. You are very kind, Madam Chair, as always. Thank 
you very much, and, again, thank you both for being here today.
    Director Feldman, last year, the National Gallery lent over 
280 artworks to 88 museums in cities across the country, 
including Cleveland's Museum of Art. I think that is a 
wonderful partnership that allows Americans across the country 
to see some of the Gallery's collection and original works 
without necessarily having to travel to Washington, D.C. Can 
you discuss the importance of this loan program and the 
National Gallery's plans to work with additional museums this 
year?
    Ms. Feldman. Thank you very much, Ranking Member Joyce. I 
am very proud of our policy on loans. Here at the National 
Gallery, we start with the answer ``yes'' when we get a loan 
request, and it is only after doing our research about the 
facilities and other issues about whether or not a work of art 
might already be committed that we might decline, so we are 
very generous about it. The number that you mentioned of 285 
works is about 60 percent of what we normally lend, so that 
really represents the fact that so many museums were closed 
during COVID, so we do everything in our power to get those 
works out. I am also proud that we partner, of course, with 
museums with our exhibition program, and over the last 5 years, 
we have sent exhibitions that we have organized to 66 different 
museums. So that is another way where we actually are able to 
partner and get those works out around the country.
    Mr. Joyce. That is fantastic. Thank you. Secretary Bunch, 
you noted in your testimony that as the Smithsonian begins 
developing the two new museums, the Institution must also 
factor in the condition of existing buildings when planning. 
Given your request includes another $23 million to continue 
renovations at the National Air and Space Museum that began in 
2018, can you provide a status update on those renovations? And 
can you walk us through some of the cost and scheduling impacts 
that you have experienced?
    Mr. Bunch. Thank you very much for the question. The 
National Air and Space Museum renovation is on track, but as 
you know, it went over budget for a variety of reasons. The 
most important reason was that as we began to actually take the 
cladding off the building, there was much more damage than we 
ever thought, and that led to us basically having to spend much 
more money on steel and the like. Also, I think what was 
important is that we have all been affected by the supply chain 
and that, in essence, we had trouble getting materials, and 
that allowed us to go over budget. But because of your support, 
last year we were able to sort of take about $53 million of 
that override, and that is why the other $23 million will allow 
us to finish the work on the Air and Space Museum so that we 
can open again to the public in the fall.
    Mr. Joyce. Well, thank you, and I applaud the two of you 
working together. Director Feldman, your fiscal year 2023 
request includes $27 million for the Gallery's share of 
construction and project management cost for Pod 6, the new 
shared art storage facility at the Smithsonian Museum Support 
Center. Can you provide us with an update on Pod 6 status and 
explain how the shared storage center will help the Gallery 
save on storage costs in long run, and can you discuss what has 
been driving these costs increases?
    Ms. Feldman. Yes. So we are really excited to be partnering 
with our colleagues at the Smithsonian. This is the first time 
we have done a major construction project together, and we feel 
it is much more efficient and effective to work together. And 
we are just about finished with the design portion of Pod 6, 
and we hope to contract by the end of the calendar year, I 
believe, and actually occupy the building in 2025, so we are 
moving forward.
    And the cost increases came from a couple of different 
factors. One was our original projections were based before the 
building was fully designed, so as we had more information, we 
learned more about the actual costs. Our percentage of the 
shared facility actually increased. We originally planned to 
have 33 percent of the building for storage, and the design 
dictated a certain level of split, so we now will have 42 
percent of the building. And so that increases the Gallery 
costs but reduces on the Smithsonian side. And then the final 
area of cost increase that both the Smithsonian and the 
National Gallery experienced is because of the increased cost 
of materials after the global pandemic, so.
    Mr. Joyce. Secretary Bunch, do you have anything to add?
    Mr. Bunch. I am just telling you I am just so excited about 
this because this is really an example of how, if we work 
together, we save costs and we handle one of the major problems 
we both face, which is storage. And I think the fact that we 
were able to sort of adapt the building to make sure it worked 
both for the National Gallery and for the Smithsonian, while 
that led for some increased cost, what it really meant is we 
now have a model going forward of how we can work together, and 
this really has a major impact for the Smithsonian. It really 
allows us to sort of move materials from some of the areas 
where we are most concerned, like the Garber facility, so that, 
therefore, we can actually make sure that some of the 
collections most at risk are taken care of. And it just reminds 
us that we really have to make sure that we continue to work 
and point towards how we preserve our collections in the 
future.
    Mr. Joyce. I applaud your efforts, and it is a high 
watermark on how government should be operating together and 
efficiently. Thank you for your time, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah, thank you for those really excellent 
questions. Chair McCollum, do you have questions today?
    [No response.]
    Ms. Pingree. You might still be muted.
    Ms. McCollum. I am pretty much sitting in this room by 
myself, but I am trying to make sure I don't contribute to 
background noise.
    It is great to see you both. Minnesota misses you both and 
in very different ways, but we are excited to be here today. 
And once again, Chair Pingree, you have done a great job 
working with Ranking Member Joyce in making sure that we 
protect these iconic institutions here in Washington, DC, which 
our constituents come to see. You both are, you know, at 
transformational points in how we are reaching audiences, and 
you are both reaching a high water of cooperation, and I know 
that you also cooperate working with the Library of Congress, 
so I couldn't be more proud of, you know, the team spirit here 
in making sure that our collections are shared by all and 
accessible to everyone.
    So there are a lot of challenges museums and our 
collections are facing right now with repatriation, and, Chair 
Bunch, I know you are dealing with one right now with the Benin 
Kingdom Court style pieces, returning things to Nigeria. Could 
you talk about how this is fitting into the Smithsonian's role 
in the future? I am right now going into a hearing in the 
Natural Resources Committee, which we are working on 
repatriation for Native-American treasures and try and protect 
Native-American culture, which has been, you know, sold off and 
abused. Could you maybe tell us a little bit what is going, Mr. 
Bunch maybe first about what is going on with Nigeria, and then 
anything you would like to share--I almost used your first 
name--Chair Feldman.
    Mr. Bunch. Well, thank you so much. It is always good to 
see you. It is really important for the Smithsonian to provide 
global leadership in the cultural community. And one of the 
most important issues is this question of how do we make sure 
that the materials we have in our collection are really taken 
care of but also are effectively owned by the Institution. And 
I created a kind of group to look at this whole notion of 
repatriation to basically say, how do we make sure we have the 
highest standards. And one of the things we have done is we 
have built on the history of repatriating Native-American 
materials through NAGPRA. But what I wanted to do is to have a 
system that would allow us, rather than to work ad hoc, to 
think strategically about how we return, how we work, and how 
we share our collections.
    And the best example is the one you mentioned, which is the 
bronzes from Benin. These were bronzes that were stolen by the 
British with a raid in 1897, and they were then sent around the 
world, and the Smithsonian has 30-some of these bronzes. And 
what we did is I decided to look at this as we heard from the 
country of Nigeria about are these the bronzes from the raid, 
so we did the research, and it turned out the 29 of the bronzes 
are from the raid. And so what we are doing is moving towards 
returning those bronzes in a way that satisfies the country of 
Nigeria but allows the U.S. to still have access to it.
    So, for example, what we are doing is, if the Board of 
Regents approves at their next meeting, we are going to return 
permanent ownership to the country of Nigeria, and we will 
return a number of them, but others will stay on a permanent 
loan so that we can continue to sort of tell the story about 
these bronzes. So I think that is a really good solution, and 
the response of the museum community around the world has been 
very, very positive, the notion that we found a way to do 
something ethical but also to make sure that the material is 
still accessible to wide audiences. And I think this is 
something that we will continue to look at as we move forward 
in working with other nations and other cultures.
    Ms. Feldman. I can actually add in there, too, that I was 
surprised my first month at the Gallery to learn that we also 
have a Benin bronze in our collection. It is the only work of 
historic African art that we have. And so about 2\1/2\ years 
ago, we reached out to Nigeria to start the process of 
repatriation, and we are hoping that this summer we will 
actually return the Benin bronze in our collection back to 
Nigeria, because as Secretary Bunch said, we have confirmed 
that it was part of that 1897 looting. So we are also 
participating.
    Ms. McCollum. Well, it is wonderful that you are doing the 
right thing, the ethical thing, but it is also great to see the 
United States take leadership on this. And thank you, Chair 
Pingree, for I am going to get back into Natural Resources and 
talk about boarding schools and what we need to do to get the 
history right on that. And I know the Arts and the Smithsonian 
Institution will have something to say about that as we go 
through our healing process. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Pingree. Thank you very much, Chair McCollum. That is a 
really important topic, and I appreciate you bringing it up. 
Chair Kaptur, do you have any questions that you would like to 
ask today?
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you, Madam Chair, for your leadership and 
that of my Ohio colleague, David Joyce. Both of you represent 
magnificent institutions yourselves.
    I have two questions, the first one to Director Bunch. 
Would the Smithsonian be willing to explore a partnership with 
the National Park Service to enhance historical interpretation 
and commemorative activities at the National World War II 
Memorial? And let me explain. With Russia's invasion of 
Ukraine, I do believe that we have a teachable moment unlike 
any other that I have seen in modern history for our own people 
about the unvarnished face of tyranny and why liberty matters. 
I am amazed that the younger people of this country, as that 
horrible war proceeds, that they haven't seen this before.
    I am the author of the bill that created the World War II 
Memorial. We started in 1987. Over 85 million people have now 
come to that memorial. I think it is at a place, especially at 
this moment, which we have to think hard about helping to 
inform the American people themselves. Only 1 percent of our 
people participate in the military now with an enlistment 
system as opposed to a conscripted system, and I have just been 
astounded actually at some of the younger people of our country 
and what they don't know even about our own history. The 
National Park Service, when we first built the memorial, I was 
very reluctant to agree to turn it over to the Park Service 
because I said they are not experts at history on the why of 
America fought, and that need still exists.
    So I just wanted to checkmark that particular issue. I will 
do a follow-up letter to you, but I think you have the ability 
to add depth to what occurs with the multiple ceremonies across 
that memorial during the year. 2024 will be the 20th 
anniversary of the actual opening of the memorial, so, I mean, 
millions upon millions of people have gone there. It is 
something to think about.
    And then secondly, I wanted to say to Director Feldman, 
across our country we have Ukrainian museums and archives, such 
as in Cleveland, Ohio, which is better than Harvard University. 
And with this war going on, I think there might be an 
opportunity to bring collections that exist, that there could 
be an exhibition at the Smithsonian. I don't know if you are 
allowed to do fundraisers, but keep that in the back of your 
mind. We can probably get not-for-profit groups to help. But 
some of the artwork, some of the political posters dating back 
to the Soviet period, the artistry of the Ukrainian-Americans 
themselves, and the support of nations, like Poland, and 
Lithuania, and Estonia, which is astounding what Finland has 
just done in this last couple days. I think there is something 
there, and I think we need to think about it because the Slavic 
peoples, of which I am one, we have no museum in Washington. 
Nobody even sees us. My constituents don't know that the word 
``slav'' comes from ``slaves.'' We were white slaves, and so 
there is this big gap.
    And because the Soviet Union was our ``ally'' during World 
War II and American soldiers never got east of Berlin, there is 
this huge gap, and I am discovering places. I was in Iowa. I 
saw the Slovak museum there, the Czech museum, the Lithuanian 
museum in Chicago, the Piosk Institute in Hamtramck, Michigan 
of all places. And I am seeing these things, and I am saying, 
you know, there is some lack of connectivity to Washington here 
and our national understanding of why these people are here and 
that they survived to live out their lives here.
    So I just wanted to put that set of issues on the table for 
you. We will follow up with a letter, but I think we could do 
better. The artworks, oh my goodness. Some of what exists needs 
to be seen, and we need to elevate this, especially now. So 
thank you for listening, and if you have any response, that is 
fine, but hopefully you will be open to exploring these 
pathways forward.
    Mr. Bunch. Well, I think you have raised such an important 
set of issues. We feel very strongly that part of our job at 
the Smithsonian is to make sure America understands its full 
history, its complicated history, its interesting history.
    Ms. Kaptur. Yes.
    Mr. Bunch. And so part of that is the collaborations we 
already do. We have hundreds of affiliate museums that we help 
tell the stories they want, and some of those are museums to 
deal with Lithuanian culture, Ukrainian culture. So I think we 
would be very interested in working with you to think about how 
do we sort of tell these stories. How do we make sure that the 
struggle and the achievement of our military experience through 
World War II is never forgotten and is celebrated both as 
something to look back to when it is something to build on, and 
I think that is something the Smithsonian really wants to do.
    And tied to this is, I made a major commitment by creating 
a kind of Smithsonian Cultural Rescue Initiative. And we have 
spent time around the world helping nations that have either 
suffered catastrophes, like an earthquake in Haiti or the 
destruction in Mosul, and we are now working with looking at 
Ukraine. We are working with our partners, and we have created 
a satellite opportunity to review damage on historic sites so 
that when the war is over, we will know where to go, how to 
help. We are also providing training for Ukrainian experts to 
basically be able to conserve the materials when the war is 
over, but what we are also doing is we are working with 
partners now to actually provide fellowships for Ukrainian 
scholars and museum professionals to come to Washington so that 
as they are displaced, they have a chance to do their 
scholarship and engage with other colleagues.
    So this is really important for us, and it is part of my 
commitment of saying that the Smithsonian has been given so 
much, and now we have to make sure we give back.
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you for that response. Just so you know, 
the Ukrainian Caucus in the House, we founded it back in the 
90s, and we have 90 members. So there's a Polish Caucus, there 
is a Hungarian Caucus, but these are largely ignored cultural 
groupings in our country, and, frankly, many of their 
collections are deteriorating. They are viewed as unimportant, 
and I just wanted to sensitize you to that, and I appreciate 
your openness.
    Ms. Feldman, did you want to say something?
    Ms. Feldman. I saw just wanted to also add my gratitude for 
bringing the topic up. It is something that we feel is very 
important. And like Secretary Bunch, my colleagues and I are on 
part of many different conversations and calls with global arts 
leaders about what we might be able to do and particularly 
think about artistic diplomacy and cultural diplomacy. Our 
conservation team has done a lot of work and research that we 
want to share with our colleagues. So we are ready to help and 
also look forward to exploring the idea of doing some kind of a 
loan partnership so that we can raise awareness.
    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair. I 
just will say one insight I have had, because American soldiers 
never made it east of Berlin during World War II, and 
unfortunately, we were allied with Stalin. There is this great 
gap, and what shocked me with this war in Ukraine is to look at 
these young people as I go out to the schools. They don't even 
know there was a 20th century, right? So they have no context 
in which to understand what is happening, and they are just 
awestruck. They were stuck to the TV and to their devices and 
everything. I thought, oh my goodness, they don't even know how 
many Americans lie in graves across Europe. And so there is a 
huge, huge gap here, and it is a generational gap. So I 
appreciate you listening, and I thank the chair and the ranking 
member. Thank you.
    Ms. Pingree. Yeah, thank you so much for your questions and 
to both of you for your answers to such important topics.
    Well, we have brought up a lot of important issues, and I 
am just going to finish the questioning with going back to some 
of the more pedestrian parts of what you do. But could you both 
talk a little bit about the work you have been doing and what 
you are working on in the future on the whole digitizing of 
your collections, making it more available to the public? I 
know you have made great leaps, as both of you mentioned, 
during the pandemic to make things more accessible digitally, 
and also have big goals, I know at the Smithsonian, to have 
everything digitized. But tell us a little bit more about the 
educational opportunities there, you know, just how that is 
going, how the funding is being used, and if you both could 
just respond a little bit about that. I know you have plenty to 
say about what your work is.
    Mr. Bunch. Kaywin, I will let you go first.
    Ms. Feldman. Thank you, Secretary Bunch. Yes, like 
everybody else, with the pandemic, we launched into digital in 
a much more substantial way than we had done before and, as I 
mentioned, saw our subscribers and views increase 
substantially. And that has also led us to realize that we need 
to redesign our website because our website was really designed 
20 years ago for a different type of digital use. And so we are 
in the process of starting the redesign, focus much more on how 
people use websites today, and that means, you know, better and 
shorter videos. The views of hour-long lectures are decreasing. 
It breaks my heart, but decreasing today, so we are looking at 
quicker videos as well as some of the hour-long, doing blogs 
and podcasts, just sort of different ways to engage people. We 
know the work that we do here is profoundly interesting, and 
every day I hear of some new research tidbit that is exciting. 
And so what we are trying to do is get better at actually 
telling our stories, so lots of initiatives there.
    We recently launched something we are calling Artle, which 
is modeled on Wordle, and people can go on our website every 
day and they get four attempts at identifying an artist, and 
that has been wildly successful and has increased participation 
on the website. And then I will just finish by saying that, of 
course, we are also thinking about how we work with teachers 
and students, and we saw such an increase in the needs for our 
programs during the pandemic. I learned just yesterday as I was 
leaving the building from one of our educators that we are 
still seeing a huge demand for digital learning with schools 
and classrooms even though we have returned to in-person school 
tours. And so now we are doing both in-person and doing a 
better job even of reaching the rest of the country now as we 
return to more in-person work. So I am really excited about 
those educational initiatives, too.
    Mr. Bunch. And we learned during the pandemic that, though 
I closed the buildings, we made sure the Smithsonian wasn't 
closed by pivoting digitally, and that, in essence, what we 
have learned, much like Kaywin has learned, is that, basically, 
this is now the new normal, that there were great opportunities 
to watch teachers utilize both in-person and digital as part of 
their training and part of their teaching, and I am really 
pleased.
    I think that we have reached over 10 million more people 
through our educational programs in 2021, and so that has 
really been very exciting because what has happened is that 
teachers have reached out to us from the very beginning of the 
pandemic to say help us. Help us educate. Help parents who 
became teachers. How do they educate? So we did several things. 
We actually worked with teachers around the country and curated 
a series of long-distance learning modules that worked for 
teachers, that really gave them the information they wanted and 
that allowed us to make sure that it wasn't something we 
created and we hope they use it. It was something that was 
really directly shaped by the teachers.
    And one of the things that has really moved me has been our 
Learning Lab, and what we have done is we have taken tens of 
thousands of our artifacts and made them available to teachers. 
But what happens is that teachers go into the Learning Lab, 
and, oh, they type in ``Abraham Lincoln'' and find everything 
we have on Lincoln, but also as they use those, whether it is 
for lesson plans or teacher activities, they then share that 
back to the Smithsonian so thousands of other teachers benefit 
from their work. So, in essence, our Learning Lab is kind of 
like a rock in a stream, that it is a ripple effect that other 
people are amplifying. And so it allows us to recognize that 
our greatest strength is also figuring out how we are an 
effective collaborator.
    And so in a way, our educational programs, our use of 
social media has really allowed us to learn more about what the 
audiences need, shape our programs to do that. It has allowed 
us to recognize, and I believe strongly that we have to be in 
every classroom, and so we are really thinking what are the 
ways we do that. And also, quite candidly, we are also thinking 
about how do we make sure we have low technology or no 
technology opportunities because there are people, as you know, 
that the digital divide is tough, and not everybody learns the 
same way. So we have created collaborations with things like 
the USA Today to actually get out tens of thousands of study 
guides and learning activities that go to schools.
    So we are really committed to saying that education is at 
the heart of what the Smithsonian is. And as a result of that, 
I actually committed for the first time, created an 
undersecretary for education that the Smithsonian has really 
never had at that level. And so this is really part of our 
commitment to think how do we recognize that the wonders of the 
Smithsonian are too important just to be in Washington, and 
that the wonders of the Smithsonian are part of the way people 
now learn. I was trained, you learn. It is history. It is art. 
It is math. But now today, it is all integrated. Where better 
than the Smithsonian to bring our science, our history, our 
culture together?
    So in some ways, I want to make sure that the Smithsonian 
is really at the leading edge of how we help what has been the 
biggest challenge this country has faced, how we make sure we 
provide equal educational opportunities for all of our 
students.
    Ms. Pingree. Great. Well, thank you so much, really both of 
you. I can tell we are moving, you know, by leaps and bounds 
here, and it is just so critically important. We never really 
can address anything as a silver lining of the pandemic, but I 
think the way our Institutions have reacted to the pandemic, 
and you two are both great examples of understanding, you know, 
something we should have been doing for a long time, and that 
is make these resources available to everybody, and, you know, 
integrate the ability for educators to do that. So that is just 
wonderful.
    We greatly appreciate that. I think we have completed our 
questions for the day, and we thank you so much for the work 
you are doing, for taking time out of your busy days to be with 
our committee. We look forward to continuing to work with you 
as the budget process moves forward, and just thank you again.
    So with that, I will consider this hearing adjourned. Thank 
you very much.
    [Answers to submitted question follow:]
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                           W I T N E S S E S

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                                                                   Page

Bunch, Lonnie G., III............................................   261

Dropik, Jason....................................................     9

Feldman, Kaywin..................................................   262

Francis, Kirk....................................................    41

Frazier, Harold C................................................    61

Garcia, Hon. Sylvia R............................................    93

Griffith, Hon. H. Morgan.........................................    83

Haaland, Hon. Deb................................................   154

Jackson, Maria Rosario...........................................   247

Kitka, Julie.....................................................    48

Lowe, Shelly C...................................................   246

Moore, Randy.....................................................   105

Radewagen, Hon. Aumua Amata......................................    96

Regan, Michael S.................................................   181

Sams, Charles F., III............................................   217

Schrier, Hon. Kim................................................    87

Sharp, Fawn......................................................     3

Sheldon, Melvin, Jr..............................................    67

Smith, William...................................................    14

Smokie, Serrell..................................................    55

Tetnowski, Sonya.................................................    20
      
       
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