[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                   BACK TO SCHOOL, BACK TO STARTUPS: 
   SUPPORTING YOUTH APPRENTICESHIP, ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE 
                              DEVELOPMENT

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON INNOVATION,
              ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                             UNITED STATES
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION
                               __________

                              HEARING HELD
                           SEPTEMBER 15, 2022
                               __________


                  [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
                               

            Small Business Committee Document Number 117-066
             Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
             
                              ___________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
48-580                    WASHINGTON : 2022               
             
             
             
                   HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

                 NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
                          JARED GOLDEN, Maine
                          JASON CROW, Colorado
                         SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
                         KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
                        DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
                         MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
                       CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
                         TROY CARTER, Louisiana
                          JUDY CHU, California
                       DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
                     CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
                          ANDY KIM, New Jersey
                         ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
                        SCOTT PETERS, California
              BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
                         ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
                        PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                        DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                        CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
                       ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
                         YOUNG KIM, California
                         BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                         BYRON DONALDS, Florida
                         MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
                      SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
                          MIKE FLOOD, Nebraska

                 Melissa Jung, Majority Staff Director
            Ellen Harrington, Majority Deputy Staff Director
                     David Planning, Staff Director



                            C O N T E N T S

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Jason Crow..................................................     1
Hon. Young Kim...................................................     2

                               WITNESSES

Mr. Noel Ginsburg, Founder & Chief Executive Officer, CareerWise, 
  Denver, CO.....................................................     5
Ms. Deborah Kobes, Senior Director, Jobs for the Future (JFF), 
  Washington, DC.................................................     7
Ms. Shani Watkins, Director, West Sound Technical Skills Center, 
  Bremerton School District, Bremerton, WA.......................     9
Mr. Jared Ebbing, Economic Development Director for Mercer 
  County, OH, Mercer County, OH, testifying on behalf of the 
  Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council (SBE Council)......    10

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:
    Mr. Noel Ginsburg, Founder & Chief Executive Officer, 
      CareerWise, Denver, CO.....................................    28
    Ms. Deborah Kobes, Senior Director, Jobs for the Future 
      (JFF), Washington, DC......................................    33
    Ms. Shani Watkins, Director, West Sound Technical Skills 
      Center, Bremerton School District, Bremerton, WA...........    46
    Mr. Jared Ebbing, Economic Development Director for Mercer 
      County, OH, Mercer County, OH, testifying on behalf of the 
      Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council (SBE Council)..    52
Questions for the Record:
    None.
Answers for the Record:
    None.
Additional Material for the Record:
    Supporting materials following testimony of Deborah Kobes, 
      Senior Director, Jobs for the Future.......................    55

 
                   BACK TO SCHOOL, BACK TO STARTUPS: 
                   SUPPORTING YOUTH APPRENTICESHIP, 
                    ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE 
                              DEVELOPMENT

                              ----------                              


                      THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2022

              House of Representatives,    
               Committee on Small Business,
      Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship,
                                 and Workforce Development,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in 
Room 2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jason Crow 
[chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Crow, Davids, Newman, Houlahan, 
Williams, Tenney, and Young Kim.
    Chairman CROW. Good morning. I call this hearing to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess at any time.
    I would like to begin by noting some important 
requirements.
    Standing House and Committee rules will continue to apply 
during hybrid proceedings. All Members are reminded that they 
are expected to adhere to these rules, including decorum.
    House regulations require Members to be visible through a 
video connection throughout the proceedings. So please keep 
your cameras on.
    Also, please remember to remain muted until you are 
recognized to minimize background noise.
    In the event a Member encounters technical issues that 
prevent them from being recognized for their questioning, I 
will move to the next available Member of the same party. And I 
will recognize that Member at the next appropriate time slot, 
provided they have returned to the proceeding.
    The COVID-19 pandemic upended the labor market like no 
other event in recent times. The pandemic slowed immigration, 
legal immigration, to a crawl, sparked early retirements, and 
forced many to exit the labor force due to factors like lack of 
childcare. These effects combined to expand a longstanding and 
unprecedented labor shortage that we are still working to 
overcome today.
    As of July 2022, the total number of unemployed individuals 
is roughly 5.9 million, while the number of job openings stood 
at 11.2 million. This gap in available workers has hit small 
firms the hardest. According to recent surveys, over half of 
American small businesses are concerned with hiring enough 
employees to fill open positions and overall employee 
retention.
    Given the fundamental importance of small businesses to the 
American economy, we must find ways to ease this labor shortage 
and build a lasting pipeline of talent into these businesses.
    One promising strategy is to bolster workforce development 
programs to attract young people to small firms. As the new 
school year starts up, America's youth are increasingly looking 
for alternatives to 4-year degrees, given high tuition costs 
and the prospect of student loan debt. More than half of 
American adults agree that college costs limit their ability to 
pursue secondary education.
    The COVID crisis has also exacerbated this issue, as total 
enrollment dropped by nearly 1.4 million between fall of 2019 
and fall of 2021. These figures show that America's youth need 
more options beyond a standard 4-year degree.
    Increasingly, young people are turning to youth 
apprenticeship programs to gain valuable, real-world 
experience, in addition to the instruction they receive in the 
classroom.
    In 2022, roughly 214,000 people age 16 to 24 were in an 
apprenticeship. This is double the number of that demographic 
just a decade ago.
    These apprenticeships have been proven to offer a wealth of 
benefits to small firms beyond just attracting new talent.
    In a study of 4,000 businesses that utilized youth 
apprenticeships, nearly 3 in 4 mentioned that it improved 
productivity, and 4 in 10 said it helped them secure new 
business. However, implementing a costly apprenticeship program 
can be daunting for small firms with tight margins.
    Today I would like us to explore ways Congress can make 
youth apprenticeship programs and other workforce development 
tools more accessible for small businesses.
    Programs like CareerWise, which was originally started in 
Colorado, have successfully spread the youth apprenticeship 
model to cities across America and expanded into a range of new 
industries.
    I want to take a closer look at the successes of CareerWise 
and other programs like it and identify ways the federal 
government can help more small firms utilize apprenticeships to 
attract talent.
    Expanding youth apprenticeships and other types of career 
and technical education can provide young people with a 
comparable alternative to a 4-year university education, while 
bolstering the small business labor force.
    I would now like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mrs. Kim, 
for her opening statement.
    Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman.
    As Members of the Small Business Committee, we hear 
directly from small business owners and their employees on a 
regular basis on the challenges they face right now. They 
include ongoing inflationary pressures, consistent supply chain 
issues, burdensome regulations, and workforce shortages. The 
inability to find workers have led owners to make business 
adjustments to account for those ongoing staffing shortages.
    As Chair noted, the federal government's Job Openings and 
Labor Turnover Summary reported that they indicate there is 
about 11.2 million job openings at the end of July and 4.2 
million workers left their jobs in the same month. And a recent 
survey reported 86 percent of small business owners said it was 
more difficult to find and retain employees compared with 3 
months ago.
    So small businesses, as we know, they do not only need to 
fill those open positions, but they also need to fill qualified 
and skilled workers. And, in August, 63 percent of small 
businesses reported hiring or trying to hire employees, and an 
astounding 91 percent of those small employers report hiring or 
trying to hire--reported that they have few or no qualified 
applicants for those open positions.
    So this skills gap has been a growing issue for businesses 
and the economy, and it is time to rethink how to expand 
opportunities for individuals often left out by traditional 
recruiting approaches.
    So that brings us to our conversation today where we will 
examine how apprenticeships and career and technical 
educational programs can help these workforce issues.
    Many small firms have turned to on-the-job apprenticeships 
to fill those openings, and one success story I want to share 
with you today is located in Orange County, the company that I 
visited often and worked closely, Veteran Air. Veteran Air is a 
veteran-owned small business serving my district, and they 
utilize an apprenticeship program with all new employees. And 
their employees are paid full time while they train to become 
certified HVAC technicians.
    Veteran Air serves as an example of small businesses 
utilizing apprenticeships and creating opportunities aligned 
with local workforce needs. And I am very proud to have toured, 
visited this Veteran Air's Anaheim facility, and I met with so 
many of their workers and employees. And I tell you they don't 
just work at Veteran Air, but they are actively participating, 
encouraging their employees to get involved and give back to 
their communities.
    And that is the type of partnership that we want to see. 
These are the type of small businesses also that we must 
empower and support in our local communities. Apprenticeships 
and career development programs are not a new concept. But, in 
this changing economy, they can help small firms reach untapped 
talent and focus on the new potential and invest in solving job 
shortages.
    So I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. And 
I hope to work with my colleagues to address these skills gaps, 
promote career and technical educational opportunities, and 
encourage apprenticeships.
    Thank you.
    And I yield back.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mrs. Kim.
    The gentlelady yields back.
    I would like to take a moment to explain how this hearing 
will proceed.
    Each witness will have 5 minutes to provide a statement, 
and each committee Member will have 5 minutes for questions. 
Please ensure that your microphone is on when you begin 
speaking, and then you return it to mute when finished.
    With that, I would like to introduce our first witness. And 
we will go through all of them, and then we will start with the 
time for each.
    But our first witness is going to be Mr. Noel Ginsburg, 
founder and CEO of CareerWise USA. Throughout his career, Noel 
has stood out as an entrepreneur and nonprofit leader committed 
to serving his community. He founded his first business, 
Intertech Plastics, while in his senior year at University of 
Denver. Go Pioneers. Now it employees nearly 200 people at two 
facilities in Denver, Colorado.
    In 2016, Noel founded CareerWise Colorado, a nonprofit 
designed to create opportunities for students and businesses 
across the State by developing innovative and sustainable youth 
apprenticeship programs. CareerWise has now expanded across the 
country to New York City, Washington, D.C., Indiana, Buffalo, 
and Michigan.
    Last year he was appointed to the Secretary of Labor's 
Advisory Committee on Apprenticeship.
    Thank you for being here, Mr. Ginsburg. I look forward to 
your testimony.
    Our next witness is Ms. Deborah Kobes--am I pronouncing 
that right? Thank you--senior director at Jobs for the Future, 
JFF, and the interim director of the Center for Apprenticeship 
and Work-Based Learning.
    For over a decade, Ms. Kobes has been managing projects to 
develop innovative new training and education models and to 
build capacity for programs--for program delivery among a range 
of organizations. She seeks to create career pathways primarily 
for underrepresented populations, like women and people of 
color, in high-demand areas of the economy.
    Before joining JFF, Ms. Kobes held research positions at 
MIT, the Brookings Institution, and the Urban Institute.
    Thank you, Ms. Kobes, for being here today. We look forward 
to your testimony.
    Our third witness is Ms. Shani Watkins. Ms. Watkins serves 
as the director of the West Sound Technical Skills Center in 
Bremerton, Washington.
    For 25 years, she has worked in both secondary and 
postsecondary education and found her passion working in career 
and technical education. Ms. Watkins is active in her local 
community, serving as a Member of the local Lions Club. She is 
also active in her local regional and national associations for 
career and technical education, currently serving as the 
regional vice president of that organization. Last December she 
was awarded with the ACTE National Administrator of the Year 
award.
    Congratulations.
    Ms. WATKINS. Thank you.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Watkins. We look forward to 
hearing your testimony.
    I will now yield to the Ranking Member to introduce our 
final witness.
    Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman.
    Our fourth witness is Mr. Jared Ebbing. He is the director 
of Mercer County Community and Economic Development. He is 
testifying today on behalf of the Small Business and 
Entrepreneurship Council, also known as the SBE Council.
    As Community and Economic Development director, Mr. Ebbing 
works with Mercer County and its citizens to plan for future 
projects and to find the funding necessary to complete them. 
Additionally, he works with local school districts to ensure 
every student has the knowledge and awareness of the many 
career opportunities that exist in the area.
    To accomplish this, he created hometownopportunity.com as a 
critical tool for the region's workforce development efforts. 
Mr. Ebbing works closely with local companies throughout the 
county to ensure local businesses possess the tools and the 
workers necessary to grow within the region.
    I know Mr. Ebbing's experience working with small 
businesses and vast knowledge of workforce development programs 
will be extremely beneficial to this hearing and our 
conversation today.
    So, Mr. Ebbing, thank you for taking the time to testify 
before us today. Thank you for joining.
    And thank you, all witnesses, for being with us.
    Chairman CROW. Yes. Thank you all for joining us today.
    Mr. Ginsburg, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

STATEMENTS OF NOEL GINSBURG, FOUNDER & CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, 
 CAREERWISE, DENVER, CO; DEBORAH KOBES, SENIOR DIRECTOR, JOBS 
    FOR THE FUTURE (JFF), WASHINGTON, D.C.; SHANI WATKINS, 
DIRECTOR, WEST SOUND TECHNICAL SKILLS CENTER, BREMERTON SCHOOL 
DISTRICT, BREMERTON, WA; AND JARED EBBING, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT 
 DIRECTOR FOR MERCER COUNTY, OH, MERCER COUNTY, OH, TESTIFYING 
 ON BEHALF OF THE SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP COUNCIL 
                         (SBE COUNCIL).

                   STATEMENT OF NOEL GINSBURG

    Mr. GINSBURG. Thank you, Chairman Crow and Ranking Member 
Young Kim, for giving all of us the opportunity to speak about 
something which I believe can be transformational for our 
education and workforce system and, in so doing, drive 
opportunity for small and large businesses, but particularly 
small, to build a workforce that will catapult them into the 
future.
    What I would like to start with is why I--where I started. 
When I founded my company, while in college, what I realized 
quickly is that, to be successful, talent would be the core of 
our success, who we could bring in, who I would surround myself 
with.
    And, when I couldn't find that talent, I went to the 
schools, assuming naively that it was their fault that I didn't 
have the talent. But, rather than pointing a finger, I showed 
up at the front door of Montbello High School and said, how can 
I help? And that began what has been a 35-, 38-year 
partnership, because what I realized is the missing piece is 
industry, not to stand on the outside as advisors or critics, 
but to be partners in workforce development.
    The second reason I did this is, over 30 years ago, my wife 
and I sponsored 42 inner city youth through the ``I Have a 
Dream'' Foundation. We made a 10-year commitment that would 
culminate in providing a college scholarship for each one, but 
in that neighborhood, 90 percent were dropping out of high 
school. So our challenge was to change that outcome. Ten years 
later, we graduated over 90 percent of our young people.
    And that sent me on a journey to find a solution that would 
not just serve 42 or a city or a State or maybe even a country. 
And it led me, because I was Chairing the College and Career 
Pathways Council at Denver public schools, to Switzerland to 
learn about a system where, like the U.S., 27 percent of their 
population will get a 4-year degree. Unlike the U.S., 70 
percent will take on an apprenticeship and not just in advanced 
manufacturing or the trades, but banking, finance, insurance. 
And it is a ROI-based system. It is transformational for the 
youth and transformational for the businesses.
    So, with the inspiration from that, I came back to Colorado 
and formed CareerWise with an intention of building a system, 
not a program, that can be that transformational. How it works: 
In the junior year, an apprentice will spend 3 days in the 
classroom and 2 days in a business in a paid apprenticeship, 
not looking over someone's shoulder but learning real skills in 
a whole host of occupations.
    In their senior year, they will spend 2 days in the 
classroom and 3 days in business. And they will get all of 
their high school credit. For some, they will earn college 
credit as a part of their apprenticeship.
    And then, in the third year, they will work either full or 
part time, depending on postsecondary options.
    Then, at the end, the hope is to get a job with the 
training company.
    And so what are we seeing? We have young people now that 
are graduating from their apprenticeship earning between 
$40,000 and as high as $75,000 right out of high school. Our 
completing apprentices are transformational for the businesses 
that they work for and for the future of their own careers.
    Congressman Crow, you mentioned places where in the 
country. On Monday, I was in New York where the CEO Jobs 
Council, founded by the Chairman of J.P. Morgan Chase, Jamie 
Dimon, made a commitment, along with David Banks, their 
chancellor, and Julie Sweet from Accenture, to hire 3,000 
apprentices over the next 3 years in a whole host of 
occupations from banking to finance, both large and small 
business. That represents 135 million in wages and training 
that will go to these young people while they in high school. 
It will change their lives because we have seen that with our 
apprentices to this day.
    The impact of youth apprenticeship is multiples. It defines 
youth apprenticeship early on in a young person's career as an 
options multiplier, not a dead end. And it can lead. You can 
start with the apprenticeship and end with a Ph.D. it 
reinforces that there is equal dignity in multiple career 
paths. College is not the only proxy. We need better ways to 
finance it, and many of our apprentices are getting their 
education paid for through the tuition reimbursement that these 
companies provide.
    It serves young people from marginalized communities in a 
way that is powerful. There is a cement ceiling over many of 
our young people in this country. Youth apprenticeship, 
starting in high school, is like a cement drill, really 
building opportunity for them that is unmatched. For some 
apprentices that choose to continue with a 2- or 4-year degree, 
it has the potential to reduce the financial burden as a 
result.
    So my point here is this can be a transformational 
opportunity--it is for many young people today--but only if it 
is much more than a program. With your help and your guidance 
and the questions that you will ask, hopefully we can move our 
country forward.
    Thank you.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mr. Ginsburg.
    Ms. Kobes, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF DEBORAH KOBES

    Ms. KOBES. Thank you.
    Good morning, Chairman Crow, Ranking Member Young Kim, and 
other Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me to 
testify today about the value and potential of apprenticeship 
for America's youth and in development of the nation's talent 
pipeline.
    My name is Deborah Kobes. I am a senior director at Jobs 
for the Future, and I lead our Center for Apprenticeship and 
Work-Based Learning.
    JFF works to transform America's workforce and education 
systems to achieve equitable economic advancement for all. 
Apprenticeship and work-based learning have the power to 
connect young people to high-demand, high-quality jobs, and 
they offer small businesses a grow-your-own talent solution.
    The good news is that youth apprenticeship is growing. JFF 
just released an analysis that shows that the number of youth 
below the age of 25 registering as apprentices has more than 
doubled between 2010 and 2020, which significantly outpaces the 
growth of Registered Apprenticeship overall. These youth 
apprentices earned an average wage of $31 an hour, which far 
exceeds the average wage for young workers.
    Youth apprenticeship has become more accessible to more 
populations, with female and Latinx representation increasing 
throughout the decade.
    While progress has been made, disparities continue. Nearly 
90 percent of youth apprentices are male, and almost two-thirds 
are white. Male youth apprentices earn nearly twice as much as 
women, and White apprentices earned about $7 more per hour than 
Black apprentices. These data show the need to continue to 
explicitly address diversity, equity, inclusion, and 
accessibility in Registered Apprenticeship and youth 
apprenticeship.
    Employers are central to youth apprenticeship. They hire 
the apprentices. They supervise the on-the-job learning. In 
exchange for their participation, employers benefit from 
recruiting talent, aligning education and training with company 
needs, and building a loyal workforce.
    Yet small businesses face a range of challenges in 
participating in youth apprenticeship. Many express concerns 
about liability issues and insurance costs of youth employment, 
which vary by state and by industry.
    Establishing a work schedule that accommodates state 
requirements for school seat time and attendance, as well as 
navigating other K-12 and postsecondary requirements, can be 
difficult. And identifying and managing the multiple sources of 
public funding for apprenticeship can be confusing and time-
consuming, particularly for small businesses who are unfamiliar 
with the funding sources.
    Yet, while it is especially important for small businesses 
to engage in youth apprenticeship, this can be an expensive 
proposition upfront.
    To drive the expansion of high-quality youth apprenticeship 
programs, JFF recommends that Congress build on the National 
Apprenticeship Act to define youth apprenticeship as a 
Registered Apprenticeship program specifically designed for 
serving youth ages 16 to 24, whether in or out of school.
    Congress should incentivize States to align their education 
and workforce systems and update K-12 policies, such as seat 
time requirements, in ways that encourage engagement in and 
expansion of youth apprenticeship.
    We also urge policies that encourage the development of 
high-quality work-based learning opportunities as part of core 
academic as well as career and technical education programs. To 
drive diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility in youth 
apprenticeship, we recommend that Congress refocus investments 
on completion and wage equity.
    We recommend providing flexible funding that supports pre-
apprenticeship, inclusive outreach and recruitment, accessible 
classroom instruction, robust mentorship, and apprenticeship 
navigators to guide young people through their program.
    Youth apprentices also need supportive services to address 
barriers that are just the cost of training materials and 
testing fees; access to technology and the internet, especially 
in the age of COVID; and transportation to school and work, 
which often have to happen in the same day.
    We recommend that Congress support employers in providing 
inclusive workplaces, facilitating the creation of training, 
funding, and support to small businesses to increase their 
capacity to adopt these best practices.
    To increase small business participation in youth 
apprenticeship, JFF recommends investing in intermediaries, 
particularly local and industry organizations, to convene 
employers and stakeholders, as well as to reduce the 
programmatic and administrative burdens of delivering youth 
apprenticeships.
    Similarly, Congress can support sector strategies that 
convene employers to build career pathways and regional talent 
pipelines while incentivizing youth apprenticeship as a 
featured strategy within those sector partnerships.
    Congress can assist small businesses in accessing 
information and training to navigate the differing state youth 
employment laws, as well as the multiple streams of public 
funding available.
    In parallel, Congress can encourage greater investment in 
youth apprenticeship by stakeholders administering eligible 
funding, such as WIOA, Pell Grants, and the emerging 
infrastructure and CHIPS grant.
    Thank you again for the opportunity share this testimony. I 
appreciate the Committee's longstanding interest in 
apprenticeship, and I look forward to supporting your efforts 
to facilitate the use of youth apprenticeship among small 
businesses.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Kobes.
    Ms. Watkins, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF SHANI WATKINS

    Ms. WATKINS. Good morning, Chairman Crow and Ranking Member 
Young Kim, Members of the committee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to appear before you today to discuss this 
important issue.
    My name is Shani Watkins, and I am the director of West 
Sound Technical Skills Center in Bremerton, Washington. I also 
serve as the Region V vice president for the Association for 
Career and Technical Education, known as ACTE, and am the 2022 
ACTE Administrator of the Year.
    West Sound Technical Skills Center provides advanced career 
and technical education, or CTE programs, to 10 school 
districts across the Kitsap Peninsula. It provides increased 
equity and access for students in small, rural areas, as well 
as larger suburban areas. It serves more than 500 students in 
their junior and senior years of high school.
    Students spend half their day at West Sound Tech and the 
other half of their day at their sending school. We offer 13 
programs across areas such as IT, automotive, construction, 
HVAC, healthcare, law and public safety, and more.
    CTE programs like the ones offered at my school engage 
students through hands-on active learning and prepare them with 
the skills they need for both further education and fulfilling 
careers in vital in-demand industries and occupations.
    At West Sound Tech, we have a variety of partnerships with 
local businesses, including small business, to provide 
important relevant learning and learning, paid work 
opportunities for our students to better prepare for life after 
high school. This morning I would like to share with you a few 
examples of these partnerships.
    Each year, West Sound Tech holds a try-a-trade day where 
our industry partners bring their tools and equipment to our 
local fairgrounds so that students from grades 9-12 can 
experience firsthand what different careers offer. We also hold 
an on-site event for students called the West Sound Tech Works. 
This is a 2-day event where our local business and industry 
partners come to share their experiences and knowledge with 
students. Students attend sessions and participate in different 
workshops provided by our industry partners.
    In addition, West Sound Tech holds an evening event called 
Explore Your Future with community partners including business 
and industry, local support services, 2-year and 4-year 
colleges, apprenticeship programs, and the military. In total, 
more than 65 different partners hold booths with information 
for families about opportunities and pathways after high 
school. Typically we have more than 500 students and families 
in attendance at that event.
    Each spring, we also hold a practice interviewing event for 
students with business and industry partners from the student's 
specific content area.
    In another partnership example, the Puget Sound Naval 
Shipyard supports an annual work-study program, hiring up to 30 
students during the summer between their junior and senior 
years. These students are provided an hourly wage and benefits, 
while participating in work and training situations at 
different shops located throughout the shipyard. Students learn 
key safety requirements, use various hand and power tools, and 
acquire the fundamental knowledge and skills necessary to work 
in an industrial environment.
    At the end of the summer, students return to school for 
their first semester of their senior year. Then, during the 
second semester of their senior year, the students again work 
full time in the shipyard. Often the work-study experience 
leads to a future career for those students. Once hired after 
high school, candidates qualify to enter various apprenticeship 
programs offered at the shipyard.
    This model could be replicated with other small businesses 
to better support workforce needs and experiences for students 
to prepare for living-wage careers.
    As in the shipyard partnership, West Sound Tech has a long 
history of preparing students to enter into apprenticeship 
program after high school. Both our construction careers and 
welding courses have pre-apprenticeship articulations with the 
Laborers and Iron Workers Union respectively.
    Students meet all requirements for entry into the 
apprenticeship programs while they are at West Sound Tech. For 
example, students in the construction program learn all of the 
physical requirements for entry, complete the minimum math 
requirements, and obtain relevant certifications.
    Despite our strong partnerships and work-based learning 
opportunities, barriers exist for our students. The cost of 
programs, transportation, the needs of low-income students for 
paid work experience, and the lack of capacity in small 
businesses are all challenges we grapple with regularly.
    Increased federal funding for programs like the Carl D. 
Perkins Career and Technical Education Act and apprenticeships, 
the expansion of youth and pre-apprenticeship activities, 
incentives for small businesses to partner with educational 
institutions, and targeted investments in paid work-based 
learning experiences, and student certifications can all help 
to address these challenges.
    In conclusion, stronger partnerships between small business 
and secondary schools will help to increase a segment of the 
economy that is currently experiencing significant challenges 
in finding a ready workforce. Students engaged in CTE programs 
are better prepared in the workforce, less likely to need 
significant students loans, and are more likely to have the 
skills and credentials to meet workplace needs.
    Thank you, Chairman Crow, Ranking Member Young Kim, and 
Committee for this opportunity today.
    I look forward to answering any questions you may have.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Watkins.
    Mr. Ebbing, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF JARED EBBING

    Mr. EBBING. Thank you, Chairman Crow, Ranking Member Young 
Kim, and the distinguished Members of the Subcommittee.
    Again, my name is Jared Ebbing. I am the Community and 
Economic Development Director here in Mercer County, Ohio.
    Mercer County is a rural county in west-central Ohio which 
is along the Ohio and Indiana border. We are part of a region 
of Ohio that is known for its small, homegrown companies 
involved in everything from advanced manufacturing to ag to 
food processing.
    My office works with our many local companies to ensure 
that they have the personnel necessary to continue to grow 
their businesses and invest in our area.
    The vast majority of the jobs created here in Mercer County 
can be attributed to small businesses. While we do have a 
couple of nationally known, larger corporations, most of our 
companies started right here years ago in somebody's basement, 
garage, or outbuilding with just a handful of workers. The 
entrepreneurial spirit here has always been alive and well in 
this region because people just know how to make things and 
have never really been afraid of the hard work needed to make 
it happen.
    While these businesses haven't really asked for anything 
more than our local support in their efforts to grow and 
expand, they now are most certainly worried about the 
sustainability of their workforce in the future.
    COVID-19 and its impact created an unprecedented new set of 
challenges for businesses. While larger corporations adjusted, 
utilizing remote work as an option, many of our smaller 
manufacturers had a hard time managing, training, and thus, 
developing their future workforce as a result of the pandemic.
    Additionally, the Great Resignation, supply chain issues, 
increased raw material costs, and now hyper wage inflation have 
all compounded their issues, making it very difficult for our 
small businesses to manage their operations.
    As such, we hear from our companies every day that say 
that, even though there is work there, they are struggling to 
complete it due to the various open positions that they have. 
So many of these unfilled positions are middle-skill jobs, 
meaning they require a high school diploma and some form of 
postsecondary education but not necessarily always a 
traditional 4-year college degree.
    As a result, companies are indeed looking at 
apprenticeships and any other on-the-job training programs that 
could help. In order to make this happen, ongoing collaboration 
among our stakeholders at every level is vital to identify best 
practices and implement impactful programs. I would like share 
one such example of a program that we have implemented to great 
success.
    Hometownopportunity.com is an online-based resource simply 
aimed at increasing the awareness of our many local, great 
careers that exist in our area to our students and to our 
families. Our companies are most certainly in need of our local 
talent, who all too often do not realize that these great 
opportunities exist right here in their own backyard.
    Furthermore, we are utilizing this resource to make 
meaningful connections between our emerging workforce and the 
companies hoping to hire and thus train them.
    We focus our efforts on first making sure students are 
aware of what our local companies do, what skills are needed, 
and what opportunities truly exist.
    Properly educating our students on the myriad of options 
and opportunities to them may sound simple, but it is actually 
surprisingly difficult when teenagers' attentions and interests 
aren't necessarily on their future. We have all been there.
    Through these career navigation tools, new career-based 
curriculum within our schools, and the hiring of countywide 
career coaches, an appreciable increase in the awareness among 
our young people is finally occurring.
    With such awareness and newfound interest, students are 
enrolling in job shadow opportunities, along with pre-
apprenticeship programs, which eventually lead to full 
apprenticeships programs at our local companies. It is a long 
process, but once students are aware of what is here, it is so 
much easier to introduce them to the necessary training that 
combines on-the-job paid experiences with their classroom 
learning.
    Although we feel very good about our local initiatives that 
we have implemented to date, more resources, ideas, and support 
would help. A national push for career development courses 
within our schools is needed. Similar support was given to the 
successful implementation of STEM-based classes across the 
country over the past decade, resulting in more young people 
becoming interested in science and math.
    Encouraging our classrooms nationwide to increase and offer 
more meaningful awareness and guidance curriculum, such as 
CareerWise and Edge Factor, would most certainly have a 
positive impact on our nation's youth. Additionally, an 
expansion of federal programs, such as Apprenticeship USA and 
Pell grants for technical education, would also help our 
emerging workforce become better trained for the careers of the 
future.
    Now more than ever we need to find ways to enhance the 
workforce development initiatives and programs that work. We 
must continue to support the business organizations and 
nonprofits who train, advocate, and bring entrepreneurs 
together, work with our educators to ensure we are not just 
graduating students from school but to an actual meaningful 
career, engage with organizations, such as the Small Business 
and Entrepreneurship Council, U.S. Chamber, and Small Business 
Administration to come up with new ideas, resources, and 
innovative policy solutions.
    Doing so will empower small businesses and thus, our 
communities to succeed long term by investing in our greatest 
asset: our people.
    In closing, thank you to the Subcommittee for the 
opportunity to testify today and for advocating and making 
policies that support small businesses across this great 
country of ours.
    Thank you.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mr. Ebbing.
    I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes. I would 
like to start with you, Mr. Ginsburg. You had mentioned, you 
know, years ago, when you first looked towards Switzerland and 
Europe that already had these well established and very 
successful programs. I would be interested in what you learned 
as you tried to replicate or use elements of that model here in 
the United States, starting in Denver and in Colorado, both 
with respect to resistance that you may have faced, cultural 
resistance or other structural resistance to implementing and 
expanding these models but also just the barriers, both with 
businesses and in the education system, that you faced.
    Mr. GINSBURG. Thank you, Chairman Crow. Big questions. What 
I will tell you, what impressed me about their system is that 
it was market based, meaning that they didn't create 
apprenticeships if the jobs didn't exist. So, as industries 
grew and shrank, at least a young person would have the 
opportunity to know what their opportunities would be post 
apprenticeship.
    Second is that their model scales so that 70 percent of 
young people take advantage of it and 40 percent of businesses 
participate because there is a true return on investment to the 
business. They do not subsidize the wages. Their education 
system is virtually free, much more so than it is here, so the 
related training is not as expensive, and there needs to be 
investments. But that is a powerful driver to scale.
    Now, when you bring that to the U.S., what we have learned 
is, when the U.S. built its road system in the country, our 
highway system, you needed the roads, you needed the off-ramps, 
the on-ramps, everything that made traffic flow and commerce 
flow. Youth apprenticeship in particular is not something that 
is intuitive for a business to think there is an ROI for. Plus, 
they don't have the tools they need to be successful.
    So building those tools for them, creating the connections 
with the high schools so that it could be successful, and to 
drive the ROI, which is what I observed overseas, is that, if a 
young person is still living at home and is making $15 an hour, 
up to $45,000 over the 3 years of their apprenticeship, the 
company is investing in them. As I mentioned, our employers in 
Colorado have invested over $45 million in wages and training 
dollars, but there is a--it is not an expense in the sense of a 
donation. It is an investment in their workforce.
    So the challenges ahead, particularly in a registered 
system, which I think is critical to ensure that, if you are 
doing business in 50 States or 2 States or 3, you are not doing 
business in different ways. The registered system, it is part 
of my role at the ACA is to make it simpler and more 
streamlined for businesses and more business responsive. In 
schools, in 50 States, we have, in essence, 50 different ways 
to do it. When seat time is a requirement, as it is in New 
York, for example, it is very difficult for an apprentice to 
spend time in a workplace.
    Now, we are hacking the system on a small scale right now. 
In Colorado, we have a competency-based system. So our students 
are earning credit for the learning that takes place in the 
workplace. We need more of that across the country. Those are 
some of the challenges.
    With employers, it is about setting up the system. 
Intermediaries are critical. In Switzerland, for example, 
industry associations drive their system. They are not ways to 
lobby Congress or the local Senate. It is, in essence, to build 
their future workforce, and as a result, a very small country 
competes with companies like the U.S. because of the quality of 
their workforce.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you for that.
    Ms. Kobes, you had mentioned the need to invest in 
intermediaries. Can you just briefly describe for us, you know, 
what do you see as the most effective intermediary models that 
you have worked with?
    Ms. KOBES. Absolutely. And I will pick up on some of what 
Noel was saying about intermediaries as well. You know, JFF is 
a national intermediary, so I don't want to undermine our value 
here. But, to your question, I think there is a real need to 
invest in local intermediaries and industry associations 
because that is who small businesses are already working with. 
So, to get the word out to small businesses, to give them a 
partner that they trust in really launching a program, having, 
you know, local chambers, local business associations within a 
specific industry, that is a place that you already have an in 
with small businesses.
    And then those intermediaries can bring together the 
employers to find what their common skills and competency needs 
are, design a program, broker the relationships with the 
education and training providers, and then even step in to help 
with the administration of the program in an ongoing basis.
    So, a lot of small businesses, you know, might be put off 
by the paperwork or not sure, you know, what they are fully 
signing up for in administering a program, and they can find it 
easier to really enter the space if their role is to be the 
employer, not to hold together the whole apprenticeship program 
and all of the different relationships required.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you. My time has expired.
    The Ranking Member, Ms. Kim, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman.
    I really appreciate all of our witnesses focusing on youth 
apprenticeship. It is critically important. And, in my 
district, we have several high schools that are in the IB 
program and then they are also providing technical programs, 
like one high school in my district is, you know, Troy High 
School, and they provide not only the IB but Troy tech programs 
through which they encourage their students to take 150 hours 
of internship, and they do get credit for their graduation 
requirements.
    And both--I mean, all of you spoke about the need to make 
this, as Mr., you know, Ginsburg, you mentioned, you don't want 
this to be just a program, but you want this to be a 
transformational system.
    And, you know, Ms. Watkins, Ms. Kobes, you all talked about 
utilizing the intermediaries, and the Chairman also asked 
through your question how we can replicate this through 
nationwide efforts so that it could become a system, not just a 
program at one school or at one district.
    So what are some of the challenges that you face, Mr. 
Ginsburg, as you make this CareerWise a, you know, successful 
program? When you work with the local school districts, 
presenting this idea to provide the students with the credits, 
what kind of challenges, if any, did you face in making this 
idea into a credit offered system?
    Mr. GINSBURG. I assumed when I first learned about this 
approach at ETH University in Switzerland, that our biggest 
obstacle would be the schools. How do you take a young person 
out of class for both 2 days a week and then 3 days a week and 
then earn their credit? In the room with me in the delegation 
was the head of curriculum at Denver public schools, and she 
said simply: I can do that.
    And we now have 17 school districts that do that.
    So the challenge, frankly, is not the schools directly; it 
is in how they schedule. If you have blocked schedules, as some 
districts do that we--in other States that we work with, it is 
difficult to let a student out. So, you know, changing those 
policies and scheduling to enable it is one way to address that 
problem.
    The real challenge, honestly, is scale with business. They 
need the support, which intermediaries provide, to give them 
the tools, the training, and the technology to successfully 
launch a youth apprenticeship program, and youth is important. 
The statistics that you were sharing earlier go up to 24.
    Doing this while students are skill in school, I believe, 
is key, is the bridge to opportunity and the systemic change 
that we need. And the numbers that we are seeing at CareerWise 
are much more balanced, both in male and female, with over 
indexing on marginalized communities in terms of the outcomes 
in those students that are being hired.
    Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you.
    I want to address the next questions to Mr. Ebbing, who is 
joining us virtually. You know, in your testimony, you talk 
about raising awareness of the opportunities that exist for 
youth apprenticeships and career development courses in high 
schools. I mean, that is what everybody is talking about, but 
specifically through your hometown opportunity. So can you 
please elaborate on that and talk about that resource as well 
as other ways that you are raising awareness for those 
programs, and can you cite some of the examples?
    Mr. EBBING. Yeah, most certainly. Appreciate it. Appreciate 
the question. Yeah, you know, so, when I first got into this 
role, it was just startling at how many young people and their 
families just didn't know, you know. They went through high 
school; they would go through the traditional route and would 
graduate and just didn't know either what was here or what 
training programs even existed. So they just kind of followed 
the beaten down path of what had always been, and what has 
always been isn't what is today and what is the future for our 
companies and what they need, and what the training options 
that are truly out there.
    So we realized early on, you know, all these programs that 
could and would exist aren't going to make an impact if people 
aren't--if students aren't aware of what they need to be, you 
know, aware of. So we kind of just started with that simple 
process of creating, you know, relationships with our schools 
and our companies to make sure the schools, the guidance 
counselors, the teachers all knew what these opportunities were 
and, again, created this platform that really helps connect the 
dots, you know, create that curriculum, create that content 
that students, you know, can say: Oh, I didn't know this was an 
option for me.
    And, just in the last 10 years since we have been doing it, 
I mean, the number of young people that are--you know, 10 years 
ago were just simply just straight going off to college, which 
there is nothing wrong with that, but just simply doing it in 
college, I would say 90 percent of our students were going down 
that path. Now I would say it is closer to probably 50/50.
    Many more young people are going into the career-based 
fields. Our career high schools are filling up. Like I said, at 
least 50 percent of the students are now going that direction. 
And many, many more are enrolling in pre-apprenticeship 
programs and then apprenticeship programs.
    So, to us, it really starts with awareness and making sure 
that students at a very--at early age as possible, understand 
what is here and start to direct them into what programs could 
be--if we do that right, I think more and more students will 
take advantage of these programs and will most certainly 
benefit the companies because they have somebody that, you 
know, truly wants to be there and understands why--you know, 
why they are going in that direction, so----
    Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you.
    I will yield back. We are over time.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has 
expired.
    I will now recognize the gentlelady, Ms. Davids from 
Kansas, the Chairwoman of the Subcommittee on Economic Growth, 
Tax, and Capital Access, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you, Chairman Crow, and to Ranking Member 
Young Kim for holding this hearing today.
    You know, in the Kansas Third and across the country, we 
are definitely seeing serious workforce shortages in every 
sector, and it has, I think, been especially challenging for 
small businesses. And, you know, as we continue to invest in 
our youth and workforce development programs, I know we are 
hearing from you all about some of the better ways for us to be 
able to do that.
    This is going to be the way that we build a stronger and 
more resilient economy, and that includes young people, us 
encouraging the work you are doing and encouraging young people 
to go into and explore entrepreneurship and apprenticeships.
    And that is why I was really, really proud to help 
introduce the 21st Century Entrepreneurship Act with my fellow 
Committee Member Rep. Dean Phillips. And, for folks who aren't 
familiar with this bill, our bill would require the SBA to 
develop an entrepreneurship curriculum for the 21st Century 
Learning Centers, which provide additional educational 
opportunities and resources to typically underserved students, 
which we have heard you all make reference to in your work. 
This curriculum will be developed and implemented using the 
partnership with local volunteers from SCORE, which is the 
Service Corps of Retired Executives.
    So I wanted to--Ms. Kobes, in your written testimony, you 
did recommend expanding youth entrepreneurship opportunities in 
conjunction with youth apprenticeship. I am curious, if you 
could share with us, though, how the legislation like the 21st 
century entrepreneurship bill could help do that, and then 
maybe talk a little bit about the ways that entrepreneurship 
and apprenticeships can go hand in hand.
    Ms. KOBES. Yeah, I will start with the last part of your 
question, which I think youth apprenticeship and 
entrepreneurship actually go together quite well. So I 
appreciate that question, and I think small businesses are a 
place where you see that juncture.
    So, if you think about a student who hasn't really explored 
entrepreneurship before, being in a small business is a setting 
where they are more likely to see all of the different aspects 
that you need to really operate a business. So, through what 
you think of as, you know, the more traditional parts of a 
youth apprenticeship, a student would learn the technical 
skills that they need in the industry that they are focused on.
    And so they could learn--I think you mentioned HVAC. You 
know, they could learn their HVAC skills or, you know, their 
insurance skills or whatever. But then, being in a small 
business, they will actually see much more upfront and closely 
than they would in a large business what it actually takes to 
make all of the back-end decisions to run that business, to 
market the business, you know, the different partners that you 
would need to be engaged with, and the people that they are 
learning from would bring that broader range of skills and 
exposure. And so that value of a small business for students 
who are really considering entrepreneurship is a great pairing.
    In terms of, you know, how specific legislation can support 
entrepreneurship, I can follow up with you in writing. JFF has 
thoughts on that that go beyond my thoughts for this morning, 
so I can put that in the record for you as a follow-up.
    Ms. DAVIDS. Oh, that would be great. And one of the most 
disappointing parts about these is we only get 5 minutes on--
especially when they are very interesting hearings likes the 
one today.
    Mr. Ginsburg, I actually do have a specific question for 
you, but I saw a lot of head nodding while your fellow witness 
was speaking. Do you want to add anything to that first 
question? And then I will follow up. I actually have questions 
for everybody on the panel.
    Mr. GINSBURG. Well, I would certainly say ditto. That is 
why I was shaking my head. Everything you said is so right on. 
And we are now in the second year of a pilot working just with 
Black-owned businesses in inner city Denver, which tend to be 
very small. There might only be two or three employees, but now 
they have an apprentice. And for all the reasons you said, 
these young people are getting to see the entire business. It 
is what I did when I started Intertech with 12 employees. I 
learned everything.
    So apprenticeship works particularly well for small 
businesses because the economics works well, and people like 
working with young people and seeing them grow and expand. So 
more to come in terms of the evidence, but what I know from the 
evidence we have so far with Black and Brown students in our 
programs is they take advantage of this more so than White 
students, frankly, because the narrative of ``I am going to 
college'' still exists. So, for marginalized communities, this 
is a real game changer and ultimately can make college more 
affordable if they choose.
    Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you. And we will definitely follow up. I 
would love to hear more about the pilot program. Chairman, I 
yield back.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you. And we will have a chance to go 
for a second round if we want to as well. The gentlelady yields 
back.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Williams, the 
Vice Ranking Member of the Committee for 5 minutes.
    Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, 
Ranking Member Young Kim, for bringing everybody here.
    And thank you for the panelists. It is a great panel.
    Just to begin with, I am from Texas. I employ 700 people 
down there as we speak. I think we got six apprentices working 
for us this morning. But I would like to start off by 
addressing the recent announcement we have had of another month 
of staggering high inflation.
    And, for over a year, American families and businesses have 
been put under increased financial stress due to increasing 
prices. And Tuesday's consumer price index reading of 8.2 
percent showed that inflation is still painfully high, causing 
more uncertainty for small business owners on main street.
    A recent survey by the NFIB found that 86 percent of the 
business owners reported having to raise their average selling 
prices due to Biden's skyrocketing inflation. And I am in the 
car business, and it is not easy to raise prices on customers. 
These constant rising prices are not sustainable. We must keep 
reckless government spending and begin to get more disciplined 
with our finances, just as every business and family across the 
country is forced to do.
    So, Mr. Ebbing, briefly, can you elaborate on how increased 
prices have altered operations for the businesses you work 
with, and how does this affect their ability to plan for future 
growth opportunities? If you can do that fairly quickly.
    Mr. EBBING. Yeah. Everything you said we do here on a daily 
basis. They have to make ends meet, and they are reluctant to 
increase their pricing because they don't want to lose, you 
know, potential business, but at the same time they have to. 
And, on top of that, you know, the hyper wage inflation that 
they are experiencing, they are being forced to do more with 
less.
    So it is very challenging. You know, obviously the 
workforce piece of it is a huge piece of the puzzle that we 
need to try to help solve because there is a lot of other 
things going on right now, again, including increased prices 
that they are having to deal with every single day. We hear it 
every day.
    Mr. WILLIAMS. Yeah. As I said, I have been in the car 
business now for 51 years, an 89-year-old family business. We 
have hundreds of people. And I know firsthand that we are 
always in need of more mechanics, technicians, other critical 
skilled workers.
    I was secretary of state of Texas before I was in Congress, 
and one of the stories I like to tell is that we lost a 
billion-dollar improvement in Texas on the coast, Governor 
Perry and myself. We had locked it in, were going to sign it 
next week, and I get a call in, and they decide to go to 
Minnesota. And, if you are from Texas, Minnesota is not a 
factor. But they are going to Minnesota simply for one thing: 
Minnesota had welders. And I always tell that story because 
this is a good example of what we are talking about.
    So I know about the need of these skilled workers, and our 
country is facing a growing skills gap, as we have talked 
about, as younger generations are not joining the vocational 
workforce at a high enough rate. We have 100,000 kids every 
year dropping out of school in the ninth grade in Texas. That 
is 100,000 every year, and we need to let them know it is okay 
to be a welder, plumber, carpenter, mechanic, and so forth, and 
you all are doing that.
    And so it is not necessary for a high school student to 
always attend a 4-year college. I think we have seen that. But 
a 4-year degree is not for everyone. So we need to ensure 
students know that there are other higher demand opportunities 
that provide them with a good-paying job, successful career. 
And we know the jobs what they can get when they get out, 
right. Everybody thinks lawyer, business guy, architect, or 
whatever, but lots of times--many times there is more out there 
for these paying jobs than is in other areas.
    And that is why I introduced the Student Debt Alternative 
and CTE Awareness Act--check it out--which informs high school 
students about career and technical education opportunities 
before they commit to a traditional 4-year university and take 
out student loans. Of course, they may not have to pay the 
student loans back, but at least they have that in front of 
them. Instead of forcing students into years of debt, this 
ensures that high school seniors know what their viable options 
are.
    So, Ms. Watkins, how can we encourage more students to 
pursue CTE, and how is your center ensuring that high school 
students are made aware of the CTE programs and continue to 
stay involved?
    Ms. WATKINS. That is an excellent question. I think we are 
often what we consider the best-kept secret in our area. In 
terms of recruiting and marketing and supporting students, a 
huge part of that goes back to what parents understand and what 
our typical rhetoric has been, which is college for all, which 
is great if that is the direction you want to go. If you have 
interest and opportunity in other areas, such as welding--for 
example, I have a 16-year-old son who has decided he wants to 
be a welder, and he is going to work in Louisiana. So it is 
giving them an opportunity to see their aspirations and to try 
things out when they are younger. And so I think a big part of 
this goes back to exposing students at younger ages to a 
variety of careers that go beyond what is typically addressed 
in an academic environment.
    Mr. WILLIAMS. Go ahead. I am sorry.
    Ms. WATKINS. Oh, that is okay.
    Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I was going to say, in closing, there 
is no reason a kid in the ninth grade should lose hope----
    Ms. WATKINS. No.
    Mr. WILLIAMS.--in this country. And that is why it is 
important what you are doing and what my bill does and others. 
We have to keep--the greatest workforce in the world is right 
here in America.
    Ms. WATKINS. Absolutely.
    Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield my time 
back.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you.
    The gentleman yields back.
    I will now recognize the gentlelady from New York, Ms. 
Tenney, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member.
    And thank you to the witnesses for this great Committee 
discussion because I am a small business owner that is always 
looking to try to find people to work in our business and to 
work with our community partners. And, you know, we hear a lot 
about this labor shortage. It is the number one thing I hear on 
the campaign trail from employers is how do we get people to 
come to work, how do we get them trained and skilled.
    And we are advertising for the first time extensively 
instead of having a waiting list for employees, which is really 
unusual for our business. We are in a rural area where we could 
provide a lot of benefits that most businesses don't, except 
the government, but we compete against the government for great 
employees.
    But, you know, this is great that we are trying to find 
students younger and get them into things. And, you know, the 
tight labor market obviously is great for students--or great 
for young people and great for people to get--you know, to 
drive up the wages, get better benefits. We know what that is 
like because we are in a rural area, so we have always 
experienced the tight labor market. And it gives the employees 
an advantage to be able to take care of their families.
    One of the issues that arise for us that I am looking at is 
we cannot find candidates really who have the experience, so 
this is really why it is so important. And this is not good for 
workers who are not able to take advantage of these job 
opportunities and what employers are looking for and needing 
the staff. We have always tried to bridge gaps with--a lot of 
our salespeople are very clever. They know how to--you can work 
with the local BOCES and get, you know, an apprentice to come 
in and help. And that is one of the things that I think that we 
need to rebalance, how the government responds to this tension 
and without getting in the way of the employers but providing a 
resource.
    And, you know, we obviously have a lot of immigrants that 
are coming in, which are wonderful in our farm communities and 
especially helping us, but we also have foreign labor that are 
being incentivized to come in and take jobs from others. And 
this sometimes can be a disincentive through some of our small 
businesses who really just want to hire, as my colleague from 
Texas pointed out.
    We have great educational institutions in my region. I just 
want to mention our BOCES again. They are phenomenal with the 
work that they do. Herkimer College, Mohawk Valley Community 
College in my area, the community colleges, and generally the 
system in New York are doing a wonderful job, and they provide 
this hands-on training and extra training and high-tech 
training. Yesterday we talked about right to repair and getting 
people to be able to learn how to fix things again, and that is 
a big issue.
    But right now the answer to this--what I am concerned about 
with this tight labor market is also--one thing I wanted to 
just bring up, and I know it is--I am using up a lot of my time 
that I want to ask a couple of you questions--is that one of my 
greatest experiences as a Member of the New York State Assembly 
was an inner city group came in, young students who said they 
were for keeping the minimum wage the same because if the 
minimum wage went up, there would be less of them who would be 
able to engage in summer programs. So I just want to mention 
there was a lot of interesting aspects of teaching students 
about the economy and economic issues.
    But I first want to just draw my attention to Mr. Ginsburg. 
And you wrote about how many enterprise employees have 
effective training programs but have difficulty in recruiting 
young people. What is the problem with recruiting young people? 
And I have this question burning in my mind: Why aren't they 
coming out to work, and how do we get them out to work and 
understand the value and dignity of good work?
    Mr. GINSBURG. I don't think that it is--well, thank you for 
the question. It is not because they don't want to work; it is 
they don't know what the opportunities are. What is unique 
about youth apprenticeship that starts in high school and does 
career exploration in middle school is they then have an idea 
of what they might be interested in.
    The second part of that though is--and as an employer, I 
tried for many years to make those connections, but until 
CareerWise working as that intermediary, we didn't have the 
connection to the schools to help the students explore what it 
is their interests are, to be exposed to the different career 
options, and what the compensation looks like----
    Ms. TENNEY. So you are saying the schools aren't even 
talking about this?
    Mr. GINSBURG. They are not connected to the businesses 
until now. It is not that they didn't want businesses to share 
that information. Businesses were not showing up. We have 
created an opportunity----
    Ms. TENNEY. So career day and job fairs and all the things 
that we host as Members of Congress?
    Mr. GINSBURG. Very episodic.
    Ms. TENNEY. Yeah.
    Mr. GINSBURG. Not systemic.
    Ms. TENNEY. Okay.
    Mr. GINSBURG. And the systemic component--we have--in our 
tech platform, it enables employers to see the apprentices, see 
what their resume is essentially, have a video of that young 
person explaining their interests and why, and it makes those 
connections.
    Ms. TENNEY. Quickly, because I want to ask you this though, 
what are the--in manufacturing, what are the toughest jobs to 
fill? I only have a few seconds left.
    Mr. GINSBURG. All of the technical skills.
    Ms. TENNEY. All of them.
    Mr. GINSBURG. I will tell you that we have an apprentice 
who designed, engineered, and built and programmed automation 
cells that enabled us to bring product back from China, over $5 
million worth of product back from China. And he was a high 
school student when he did that. He is now earning $70,000. The 
difference was we connected with the schools, in this case 
Cherry Creek School District, and made the opportunity 
available for him. It has changed his life.
    Ms. TENNEY. That is tremendous. Thank you so much. I yield 
my time back. Thank you.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back.
    I am going to take an opportunity to do one more quick 
round here because I know there is some more questions, and if 
you all had some more, I will loop back with you.
    But I wanted to flesh out--so I will recognize myself for 
another 5 minutes--with Ms. Watkins, because one thing that you 
touched on at the beginning, and you have touched on a couple 
of points, because we have talked a lot about systematic issues 
in the school districts and the education issue, systematic 
issues within the business system, but I really want to drive 
on the students, the apprentices themselves, right. And you 
touched on in your opening testimony the idea of some barriers 
that they face, whether it is transportation, whether it is 
childcare.
    So, in CTE and the shipyards and the areas in Bremerton 
where you do business, like what are some of those barriers 
that the individuals are facing, and what are you seeing as 
effective to breaking down those barriers?
    Ms. WATKINS. Thank you for the question. So I would say, 
first of all, transportation is a huge challenge for 
particularly our location. We are very rural. We have students 
that travel an hour and a half one way each day to participate 
in CTE programs with us because they are not offered in their 
areas. And those students have less access to viable careers in 
their industries locally, so transportation for them to do an 
apprenticeship program or to have a work-based learning 
experience is more challenging. So transportation is a huge 
issue.
    The other thing that happens with a lot of our students is 
that they come from poverty. We have a lot of students that 
have to support their own families, and so that creates a 
barrier when internship opportunities, work-based learning 
opportunities are nonpaid; they have to make a decision between 
finding a job versus finding an opportunity for that career. So 
that is two of the big ones for us.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you for that, and I appreciate it.
    I will now yield to the Ranking Member, Mrs. Kim, for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you very much. I am really glad that 
we held up the hearing as long as we could so we can have 
Member Houlahan join us because I know you always engage our 
witnesses with great questions. So I am glad you are here.
    And I know on our side we have some Members who want to ask 
questions. But, rather than asking a question, I just, again, 
wanted to reiterate my special thanks for all of you being here 
to share your expertise on how the youth engagement, youth 
apprenticeship, the programs that you are, you know, 
implementing is really working.
    And I am really glad to hear, Ms. Watkins, to hear that 
your 16-year-old son is engaged in welding and becoming a 
certified welder. That will surely prepare him for the job 
market that is out there.
    But the challenges that we talked about is also, even when 
we have hearings like this, we have great, you know, Members of 
the small business community that we wanted to bring and share 
their experience as well, just like you are doing. But the 
challenge is they can't be here because they can't take the 
time off because they are small businesses. How do they 
backfill if they leave their operation?
    So those are the challenges of meeting the labor force, you 
know, the shortages. So I just wanted to echo the difficulties, 
the challenges, the workforce development that we need to focus 
on, training, retaining, the quality labor force; these are the 
challenges. So it is really important.
    And, Chairman, I really want to thank you for your 
leadership for us holding these type of hearings. More and 
more, it is needed. But obviously we want to be able to do more 
roundtable type of discussions so that we can listen to more 
real life expertise, meeting with those challenges by telling 
us what we can do better so we can help build that workforce 
and fill the gap and all that stuff.
    So I just wanted to thank you again and share that we 
understand what you are facing. We appreciate the information 
you are sharing, and we will go to work in making sure that 
youth apprenticeship, for example, as Mr. Ginsburg and all of 
you mentioned, that it is not just a program, but we can help 
to make it a transformational system that works.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you.
    The gentlelady yields back.
    I will now recognize the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms. 
Houlahan, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you so much 
for the chance to speak. And sorry for being tardy. I am trying 
to straddle three different committees today at the very same 
time slot. But my heart is very much with small businesses. I 
am an entrepreneur myself, and I am grateful for the 
opportunity to sit with you today.
    Thank you again for your testimonies.
    There is definitely going to be a generation of youth that 
will be on the forefront of addressing the emerging challenges 
that we are all facing collectively today. Because these 
challenges will inevitably require innovative, technical, and 
advanced solutions, the benefits of youth apprenticeship and--
of CTE can't be underestimated especially amid our workforce 
issues that are impacting businesses on account of the 
pandemic.
    So I am hopeful that today's youth will be able to benefit 
from the recent action that has been taken in Congress to 
address some of our nation's most pressing issues, including 
the passage of the bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and 
Jobs Act, the bipartisan CHIPS and Science Act, and the 
Inflation Reduction Act.
    It is really critical that our nation's youth and small 
business owners will be able to access the vital workforce 
development resources that we have provided in light of these 
once-of-a-generation investments and the millions of jobs that 
we hope that they will be able to create.
    My first question is to Ms.--is it Kobes?
    Ms. KOBES. Kobes.
    Ms. HOULAHAN. Kobes, apologize. You mentioned in your 
testimony that recipients of these new federal resources will 
require assistance to be able to learn about apprenticeships 
and connect to appropriate stakeholders. Could you please 
elaborate on what this Committee and what Congress in general 
can be doing to make sure that small businesses can tap into 
the public funding that is available for youth apprenticeship?
    Ms. KOBES. Yes. Thank you for the question. And I think 
that ties into the earlier questions around inflation and how 
our economy is affecting individuals as well. It is certainly 
true that the economy has affected small businesses in a very 
serious way. It is also exacerbating the challenges faced by 
the rising inequality in our country, and individuals who are 
left out of economic opportunity are facing those consequences 
even more severely during inflation. And, you know, the 
investments made through the bills that you mentioned really 
create an opportunity to invest in our workforce.
    And I have seen--my husband even works for a manufacturing 
company in batteries, and they were applying for, you know, a 
new grant, and it includes now, you know, an equity plan around 
job quality, around workforce development. And he came to me 
and he said: Who should we be talking to?
    You know, they are in Colorado as well and expanding into 
other locations. But they don't have the background to know 
these are the workforce development agencies that we can work 
with; these are the schools that could provide us talented 
solutions; you know, these are the intermediaries even that we 
should be tapping into.
    And so what you have now is funding that is going out to 
more businesses, to, you know, state agencies, transportation 
agencies, all of these different opportunities that build in 
workforce as a core strategy to actually succeed through these 
grants. But they are not workforce people, and so you really do 
need a way to get the word out to all of those potential 
grantees so they can navigate the new workforce incentives that 
are built within the grant opportunities.
    Ms. HOULAHAN. Does anybody have anything else to add? I 
have another question I would love to ask as well, but, Mr. 
Ginsburg, you look eager.
    Mr. GINSBURG. What I would say is, in order to scale this, 
how we connect with business, at CareerWise we say we are 
student centered but business driven, that that connection in 
educating businesses on how this impacts their bottom line in a 
positive way, how it fills that early pipeline of talent that 
is essential is part of it, and those intermediaries are 
essential to make it easier for them until it becomes systemic.
    And we need our colleges, our community colleges. Our CTE 
programs are powerfully effective, but it--right now it is a 
fragmented system. It needs to be a holistic system. So driving 
investments to bring those people together and to ensure that 
business voice is at the center because, if it won't, they 
won't do it. And that is a tragedy for them and our young 
people and ultimately our country.
    Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, could I ask a second 
question? I just want to make sure I don't run out of time.
    Chairman CROW. Yeah.
    Ms. HOULAHAN. Perfect. Thank you.
    I also would like very much to focus on the importance of 
youth workforce development with regard to STEM and STEAM. 
Very, very excited that my community is actively investing in 
initiatives that would be able to prepare our youth for 
valuable and needed STEM careers with the development of new 
STEM high school academies in places like Reading, 
Pennsylvania, that have been funded by federal COVID aid, as 
well as West Chester University's new sciences and engineering 
center.
    To, Mr. Ebbing, who I believe is on the screen, similar to 
my community in Pennsylvania's Sixth District, you mentioned 
that local schools in your area are establishing new career-
based curricula. Can you please describe how these developments 
benefit local communities across our country as well as student 
success and career readiness?
    Mr. EBBING. Yes. Thank you very much for the question. 
Yeah, it has been a game changer for us. We have been layering 
career connection curriculum in at the freshman and sophomore 
year already in with the STEAM curriculum so that they not only 
become interested in STEM and STEAM and all that goes with it 
but how the careers, you know, relate to those courses.
    So, to us, it has been a game changer in the sense of just 
truly layering in that information at an early age. So every 
freshman will take the class. A lot of sophomores will take it 
to, again, learn not just about the class work but how it 
relates to the real world. And we bring companies in to educate 
them on what this class work means to them as a company.
    And it just sows the seeds, you know, of awareness and 
connecting the dots that, when the students become juniors and 
seniors, whether or not they want to go into career technical 
education or straight into a pre-apprenticeship program, now 
they are armed with that information of truly understanding 
what this class means to the real world and the careers. So 
layering it in, we believe, is very important as part of that 
education model in their early high school years.
    Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you. I appreciate all of your time, and 
I yield back.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you.
    The gentlelady yields back.
    I will now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. 
Williams, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Chairman.
    And I just made a few notes here. You know, one thing we--
and I am sure you are involved with them too. I represent Fort 
Hood, large military base in America. We have got a lot of 
soldiers that are transitioning out, that need some assistance. 
And I hope somehow they are included in your program too 
because a lot of them are 20, 21, 22 years old. They are 
disciplined. They know how to work. And they need a job, and 
they are pretty good. So that is a big, I think, opportunity 
for us to do that.
    And I think also a lot of these kids today don't have the 
background we had from the fact that you go to work and, hey, 
if you make money, that is good. Profits are really good and so 
forth. They don't hear that so much anymore. They almost hear 
the opposite. They hear that $15 minimum wage is a career. It 
is not a career. Okay. They need to think bigger than that. 
Drawing unemployment is not a career. Okay. They need to--
bringing a payroll check home is pretty good. And I think they 
have to fight with that all the time.
    And then they hear about, well, that you can borrow money, 
and it will be written off; you don't have to pay it back. Then 
they hear back that this--like the student loans, they don't 
have to pay their car notes for various reasons. They have got 
forbearance on their apartments. I mean, it sets a bad tone for 
a mind that wants to work and get after it. We need to be much 
more positive towards these kids and show them how to make a 
living. They don't need all this.
    And, at the end of the day, from a small business owner 
standpoint, we need to cut taxes. We need to quit raising taxes 
and talking about it, cut taxes so I have extra money that I 
can go out--instead of having six apprentices, I can go have 16 
apprentices. So that is kind of the things we need to do.
    And so I would just say real quick, Ms. Watkins, and we 
have talked about this, but I want to hear what you have to say 
about the opportunity, what steps can a business owner like 
mine--I employ over--almost 300 people--what can I do to 
establish connections with CTE programs and recent graduates? 
You know, I told you, we have got a bill; we would tell them: 
Hey, there is opportunity out there.
    But how can I do that?
    Ms. WATKINS. That is a great question. So I think, first of 
all, going back to the Swiss model or the German model, one of 
the key things is that it is like a stool with three prongs. It 
has government support. It has business support. And it has the 
school support. And I think small businesses, in particular, 
helping us reach out to you and you reaching back to us. I 
think there is opportunity as simple as reaching out and 
saying: Hey, I need employees that can do these things.
    We have an automotive program right now, and right across 
the street from our center is the Haselwood Group, and the 
Haselwood Group is an automotive group that is next to us. So 
they actually work with bringing our students in just to see 
what their shops look like now because the parents' shop days 
of what it looked like in an automotive shop is not what it 
looks like today. So getting them involved and into and 
interested in that way also I think is really critical.
    Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, you are right. I mean, I get back to my 
business, and these kids are electricians. They are not 
mechanics, you know, or you used to call them wrenches. And 
these are smart kids.
    Ms. WATKINS. Absolutely.
    Mr. WILLIAMS. And they really, really do well, and it is--
shops are cleaner. Just a great opportunity for them. And we 
need them bad. We need body people. We them in body shops; we 
need them badly, that can fix these cars and so forth.
    So, anyway, look, we get political here a lot. Most of the 
time we are. I have already been political in my statements 
today. But, at the end of the day, what you all are doing is 
great, and it is going to--my business is a third-generation 
business. Now my kids run it. And they have got to be able to 
have a workforce to continue the business and so forth. And we 
have got to make tax cuts permanent so we make more money 
because what we don't have--what people are saying about 
businesses like mine and yours, that if we make money, we don't 
save it; we spend it, and we invest, and we give opportunities.
    So thank you for being here. I yield--yes, sir, Mr. 
Ginsburg.
    Mr. GINSBURG. Well, something you said resonates with me in 
that the jobs that you create in your shop pay really well. 
But, in this country, if we say there is only one path to 
opportunity and that is a 4-year degree, then there is 
something less than in a job in your shop or in my company. And 
it shouldn't be. There should be equal dignity in any path that 
you choose that leads to a career that puts a roof over your 
head, a car in the garage, and opportunity for your children. 
And business holds the key to that.
    And I just want to emphasize that, when we talk about the 
future, it is not just one pathway to opportunity in this 
country anymore. That ends up with trillions of debt, 
noncompleters in our 4-year system, and business without the 
talent they need.
    Mr. WILLIAMS. I mean, you talk about dignity, I can tell 
you, we had a cold snap in Texas, and those plumbers and those 
welders were called, and nobody asked them, what are you going 
to charge me when you get out here? So they--but you are right. 
A job is a job. A job in America is the greatest job. I yield 
back.
    Chairman CROW. Thank you.
    The gentleman yields back.
    Thank you to our witnesses, again, for joining us today. 
The pandemic inflicted a deep shock on the American labor 
force, and as we continue to work back toward normalcy, 
workforce development programs can help boost our pool of 
qualified workers, provide young people with the education and 
skills they need to launch their careers.
    Although I will say, some people say ``return back to 
normal,'' and we are not ever going to return back to the 
normal as it used to be because things are changing. The 
workforce is evolving. The future is looking different, and it 
should because I think, as you all mentioned, there are greater 
opportunities for our young people that we have to pursue for 
them.
    We have seen the power of youth apprenticeship programs in 
providing that and the ability to upskill workers and to help 
small businesses meet their staffing needs. So I think there is 
consensus that embracing this model and others like it, we can 
make these programs more accessible to young people and small 
businesses alike. So I look forward to working with the 
Committee Members to pursue policies that will help achieve 
this goal.
    Without objection, Members have 5 legislative days to 
submit statements and supporting materials for the record.
    And, if there is no further business to come before the 
Committee, without objection, we are adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:21 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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