[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                        THE FUTURE OF FEDERAL WORK II

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS

                                 OF THE

                   COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             JULY 21, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-95

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Reform
      
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]      


                       Available at: govinfo.gov,
                         oversight.house.gov or
                             docs.house.gov
                             
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
48-385 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                                 
                            
                   COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM

                CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York, Chairwoman

Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of   James Comer, Kentucky, Ranking 
    Columbia                             Minority Member
Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts      Jim Jordan, Ohio
Jim Cooper, Tennessee                Virginia Foxx, North Carolina
Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia         Jody B. Hice, Georgia
Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois        Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Jamie Raskin, Maryland               Michael Cloud, Texas
Ro Khanna, California                Bob Gibbs, Ohio
Kweisi Mfume, Maryland               Clay Higgins, Louisiana
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York   Ralph Norman, South Carolina
Rashida Tlaib, Michigan              Pete Sessions, Texas
Katie Porter, California             Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
Cori Bush, Missouri                  Andy Biggs, Arizona
Shontel M. Brown, Ohio               Andrew Clyde, Georgia
Danny K. Davis, Illinois             Nancy Mace, South Carolina
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida    Scott Franklin, Florida
Peter Welch, Vermont                 Jake LaTurner, Kansas
Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr.,      Pat Fallon, Texas
    Georgia                          Yvette Herrell, New Mexico
John P. Sarbanes, Maryland           Byron Donalds, Florida
Jackie Speier, California            Mike Flood, Nebraska
Robin L. Kelly, Illinois
Brenda L. Lawrence, Michigan
Mark DeSaulnier, California
Jimmy Gomez, California
Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts

                     Russell Anello, Staff Director
  Wendy Ginsberg, Subcommittee on Government Operations Staff Director
                    Amy Stratton, Deputy Chief Clerk

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5051

                  Mark Marin, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                

                 Subcommittee on Government Operations

                 Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia, Chairman
Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of   Jody B. Hice, Georgia Ranking 
    Columbia                             Minority Member
Danny K. Davis, Illinois             Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
John P. Sarbanes, Maryland           Andrew Clyde, Georgia
Brenda L. Lawrence, Michigan         Andy Biggs, Arizona
Stephen F. Lynch, Massachsetts       Nancy Mace, South Carolina
Jamie Raskin, Maryland               Jake LaTurner, Kansas
Ro Khanna, California                Yvette Herrell, New Mexico
Katie Porter, California
Shontel M. Brown, Ohio
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on July 21, 2022....................................     1

                               Witnesses

                              ----------                              

Jason S. Miller, Deputy Director for Management, Office of 
  Management and Budget
Oral Statement...................................................     5

Kiran A. Ahuja, Director, Office of Personnel Management
Oral Statement...................................................     7

Written opening statements and statements for the witnesses are 
  available on the U.S. House of Representatives Document 
  Repository at: docs.house.gov.

                           Index of Documents

                              ----------                              

  * Letter to OPM; submitted by Rep. Keller.

  * Daily Torch Article on DHHS Employees; submitted by Rep. 
  Clyde.

  * Questions for the Record: to Mr. Miller; submitted by 
  Chairman Connolly.
  * Questions for the Record: to Ms. Ahuja; submitted by Chairman 
  Connolly.

The documents are available at: docs.house.gov.

 
                     THE FUTURE OF FEDERAL WORK II

                              ----------                              


                        Thursday, July 21, 2022

                   House of Representatives
                  Committee on Oversight and Reform
                      Subcommittee on Government Operations
                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:01 a.m., in 
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Gerald E. 
Connolly (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Connolly, Norton, Davis, Sarbanes, 
Lynch, Raskin, Porter, Brown, Hice, Keller, Clyde, and Biggs.
    Also present: Representative Beyer.
    Mr. Connolly. The committee will come to order. Without 
objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the 
committee at any time.
    I want to welcome everyone to the hearing which seeks to 
apply lessons learned during the pandemic to strengthen and 
secure our Federal workforce. And I now recognize myself for an 
opening statement.
    I want to welcome everyone to the hearing dedicated to 
examining the future of the Federal workforce and lessons 
learned during this pandemic. To do that, we must reflect on 
and recognize the heroic work our civil service accomplished 
during the deadliest parts of the pandemic especially.
    These public servants engaged community-based health 
centers in the distribution of lifesaving vaccines; provided 
healthcare and services to veterans; delivered the mail, 
prescription drugs, food stuffs, and COVID tests; administered 
financial assistance to small businesses and millions of 
American families to make sure they had food on the table and a 
roof over their head. And they fought raging wildfires and 
other climate disasters. They administered financial assistance 
throughout the country, to state and local governments as well.
    While so much has changed over three years, the importance 
of our civil service remains indomitable. With that in mind, 
two essential pillars drive today's hearing. First, we must 
renew our efforts to foster the current Federal workforce to 
ensure that they have the resilience and resources necessary to 
accomplish agency missions. And second, we need to adopt 
policies that educate, attract, and onboard the next generation 
of Federal employees.
    To support those goals, the Federal Government, including 
Congress, must work to provide competitive compensation; 
promote diversity, equity, inclusion, and access; support 
employees' needs for work-life balance; and encourage 
innovation, engagement, and collaboration among agency 
leadership and staff to improve agency operations.
    Over the past four years, this subcommittee has held 
hearings that fought to maintain a merit-based civil service, 
ensured robust collective bargaining rights, honored our 
frontline Federal workers in the pandemic, explored how to 
rebuild the civil service guided by the previous 
administration, examine the future of Federal work and how it 
holds in store--and what it holds in store for the workforce 
itself.
    At today's hearing, we pull our research together and our 
first strategic vision for the future of the Federal work. 
Despite years of efforts, strategic human capital management of 
the Federal workforce has landed in the government 
Accountability Office's high-risk list for the 21st consecutive 
year. GAO notes that myriad items on the high-risk list result 
from the Federal Government's inability to close skill gaps and 
higher training staff up critically in-demand skills like 
cyber, IT, data analytics, and human resources.
    Roughly seven percent--seven percent--of the Federal 
employees are under the age of 30, compared to 23 percent in 
the private sector. Nearly 30 percent of Federal employees are 
over the age of 55, with potentially one-third of the Federal 
workforce eligible to retire over the next several years, 
threatening what has been referred to as a retirement tsunami 
for the Federal workforce.
    These are staggering numbers. And data from the Bureau of 
Labor Statistics shows that the private sector seems to have 
cracked the early career talent recruitment code providing a 
roadmap for the Federal Government.
    If you look at the screen, you will see this discrepancy in 
detail. The red bar shows the age distribution of employees 
across all sectors, public and private. Watch as the figures 
transition to the age distribution to the Federal workforce in 
blue. Young employees make up a much smaller fraction of the 
Federal Government than they do in other sectors nationwide.
    The workforce is the lifeblood of our Federal Government. 
Without people committed to public service, taxpayers, 
vulnerable populations, small businesses, and others will not 
be able to get the resources and services they need. If we fail 
to attract and hire the best and brightest in Federal service, 
our Nation suffers, our constituents suffer.
    To avoid that fate, we crafted the NexGen Feds Act, which 
leverages Federal internships to build a robust cadre of early 
career talent that reflects this Nation's one tool, but an 
important tool.
    In addition to early career talent, the Federal Government 
must ensure the current talent can perform its work regardless 
of the context. Throughout the pandemic, agencies embraced 
telework and remote working arrangements, and it worked. 
Agencies delivered critical services across the country, not 
without problems.
    This subcommittee worked, on a bipartisan basis, to help 
agencies caught flat-footed at the start of the pandemic by 
investing in technologies that facilitate a continuity of 
operations. We must heed the lessons learned and maintain the 
advantages of telework as laid out in the Telework Metrics and 
Cost Savings Act, a bill developed in partnership with Mr. 
Sarbanes of Maryland, and building upon this subcommittee's 
long history of support for telework, including the Telework 
Enhancement Act of 2010.
    Unfortunately, we learned some pandemic lessons a little 
too late. An early failure by the previous administration to 
adopt consistent, clear, and effective safety guidelines led to 
a number of Federal workers contracting and, tragically in some 
cases, succumbing to the coronavirus pandemic while serving 
this Nation.
    One of those civil servants was my constituent Chai 
Suthammanont. Chai worked in the kitchen of the daycare 
facility at the Marine barracks in Quantico. When the pandemic 
hit, Chai worked in a tight kitchen space with additional 
staff, where he was exposed to someone who had coronavirus 
symptoms. He then tested positive for COVID-19, and within a 
few weeks he was dead.
    This morning, I introduced an updated version of the Chai 
Suthammanont Act, seeking to codify safety procedures for the 
Federal workforce across the board, extending beyond the COVID-
19 pandemic. Specifically, the bill would require the heads of 
every Federal agency to establish a plan containing procedures 
and policies for the safety of Federal employees, contractors, 
and subcontractors physically present at any covered worksite 
during the nationwide public health emergency. It would ensure 
that employees are made aware of expectations, procedures, and 
policies that can protect them.
    Further, Congress and the Biden Administration must make 
sure that every Federal job is a good job. This year, the 
Administration called for a pay increase of 4.6 percent, the 
largest annual Federal employee pay raise in 20 years. I 
implore the Administration, however, to implement a 5.1 percent 
pay raise consistent with the FAIR Act I introduced earlier 
this year, which has 60 congressional co-sponsors. This pay 
raise keeps the Federal Government competitive with the private 
sector and deals with the inflation rate.
    Finally, we must ensure that our civil service is vested 
with expertise and not populated by political appointees alone. 
A Sharpie should not dictate how our Federal agencies allocate 
first responders in the aftermath of a hurricane. We must not 
ignore the blazing evidence of climate change destroying 
communities and taking lives all across the globe even as we 
speak.
    Our expert civil service is a crown jewel. Protections are 
warranted. Actions to remove those protections threaten the 
civil service and, I believe, the foundations of democratic 
society. I've introduced preventing a patronage system act to 
put Congress in charge of which Federal employees receive civil 
service protection. Enactment of the bill, which was included 
in the House-passed Fiscal Year 2023 Defense Authorization Act 
would ensure that data and evidence undergird our policies.
    I thank our witnesses for appearing today and look forward 
to implementing our vision of civil service; empowering to 
serve individuals, families, communities, states, and this 
Nation without regard to political affiliation.
    With that, I now recognize the ranking member for his 
opening Statement.
    Mr. Hice. Thank you very much, Chairman Connolly. I 
appreciate you calling this hearing.
    And I am grateful to have here joining us the OPM 
Administrator and deputy director to testify. This is 
unfortunately, but an all too infrequent occurrence in 
Congress, as was the case when the IRS Commissioner was here.
    I deeply appreciate the chance to ask questions regarding 
administrative policies to those who are responsible. And so I 
thank each of you for being here as well today.
    Today's hearing is supposed to focus on the future of the 
Federal workforce of how to make the Federal Government a model 
employer. Too often, ``model employer,'' that phrase is just, 
frankly, a catchphrase for treating Federal workers like a 
privileged and protected class. Looking over the testimoneys, 
the Biden Federal workforce policies are in many ways just 
another platform for leftwing agenda and promotion of that type 
of thing. And I feel it's unfortunate. I want to give some 
examples.
    The emphasis is on creating more perks for Federal workers, 
increasing pay, shielding them from accountability, and 
promoting public sector unions.
    Raising minimum wage for Federal employers, much less 
employees, let's be honest, who pays for that? Well, it's the 
American people? The Biden Administration also never misses an 
opportunity to promote unions. It seems the attitude is jobs 
are not good unless it's involving a good quality union.
    In the Federal agencies, unions are front and center. And I 
can say, and I know the chairman knows, that since I came to 
Congress, I've tried to fight to reduce the amount of time 
Federal employees spend on union activities. They need to do 
the jobs they were hired to do. First and foremost, Federal 
employees are here to serve the public, not organize labor. I 
have fought through such things as the Accountable Feds Act, 
for example, to make sure that Federal employees are indeed 
accountable, so they can face discipline or removal if their 
performance warrants it. But the Biden Administration, to them 
and to many of my other colleagues, it seems more important to 
create knots in the process and obstacles that are designed to 
ensure that it's just too difficult to deal with poor 
performers.
    I support Schedule F, which ensures Federal employees 
cannot thwart the policies that the American people voted for 
if they don't agree with them. Look, these are valid concerns, 
but Democrats seem to dismiss them altogether.
    As we look at retention and recruitment challenges, just 
common sense tells us that we should not forget that talented 
workers do not want careers picking up the slack for poor 
performers. There must be accountability. And not to have it is 
destructive across the board.
    The Biden Administration has also moved to expand 
alternative working arrangements, like telework and remote 
work, and to make these things permanent. Never mind--and this 
is something we've been calling for, for a long time--there has 
been no assessment of how telework impacts agency performance. 
Why would we make something permanent that we haven't even 
checked into as to its effectiveness?
    Never mind that in the State of the Union, President Biden 
said himself that government would lead by example and that 
Federal workers would soon be back in the office. Well, they're 
still not back in the office.
    When Ranking Member Comer and I wrote asking when Feds 
would return, OPM stated Federal employees would continue in a 
mix of in-office and telework arrangements.
    So what changed after the State of the Union? Quite 
frankly, it doesn't appear that anything changed. But I can 
tell you we continue still hearing from our constituents, and 
the fact is that many of them could not get services from 
agencies like the VA or Social Security because no one was in 
the office. This is inexcusable.
    Again, we are here to serve the public, not the other way 
around. It's a matter of good government to have a grasp on the 
real and potential impacts that teleworking and remote working 
would have before we make it permanent. And how do we know that 
OPM has the ability or the intent to monitor compliance with 
telework policies? How will we know whether workers have been 
scattered to the four winds with no intention of returning, and 
yet they continue to draw locality pay from high-cost areas?
    Finally, OPM Director Ahuja says that all employees should 
be treated with dignity and respect--something that we all 
agree with--but are Federal workers still subjected to hostile 
work environments under the guise of racial sensitivity 
training?
    Look, I do have concerns. I do also have areas of 
agreement. I certainly support more skill-based hiring as 
embodied in my Chance to Compete Act. OPM and Chairman Connolly 
also share this view. I also believe we should make military 
spouses a focus of Federal hiring efforts. But, again, the 
bottom line, the Federal workforce issues cannot be a one-sided 
conversation. There has to be accountability, there has to be 
oversight, not just extra perks, extra pay, and extra 
protection.
    Again, the Federal workforce exists to serve the American 
public, and the American people do not exist to serve the 
Federal workforce.
    I thank you. I look forward to our time together.
    And, with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Hice.
    I would like to now introduce our witnesses. Our first 
witness for today is deputy director for the Office of 
Management and Budget, Jason Miller. Our second witness is the 
director of the Office of Personnel, Kiran Ahuja.
    If you would both rise and raise your right hand to be 
sworn in.
    Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to 
give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the whole 
truth, so help you God?
    Let the record show both witnesses answered in the 
affirmative. Thank you.
    Without objection, your full written statements will be 
made part of the record.
    And, with that, Mr. Miller, you're now recognized for your 
five minutes of testimony. Welcome.

 STATEMENT OF JASON S. MILLER, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR MANAGEMENT, 
                OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET

    Mr. Miller. Thank you.
    Thank you very much, Chairman Connolly, Ranking Member 
Hice, members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to 
be here to speak to you, and I'm proud to be doing so alongside 
my friend and colleague, Kiran Ahuja.
    Director Ahuja and I, with our teams, have worked shoulder-
to-shoulder under this Administration to harness the potential 
of the Federal Government to be a model employer in order to 
deliver for the American people, and in so doing, to tackle 
longstanding challenges facing the Federal workforce.
    As the deputy director for management at the Office of 
Management and Budget, I am responsible for overseeing 
governmentwide management matters, including broad Federal 
workforce policy. I serve as the chair of the President's 
Management Council, or PMC, which is composed of the deputy 
secretaries, deputy administrators of the CFO Act agencies, as 
well as Director Ahuja, the GSA Administrator, and the Cabinet 
Secretary. The PMC is particularly focused on the Federal 
workforce.
    I've submitted longer formal testimony for the record. I 
will highlight several key points.
    First, I want to start with the point that should be 
obvious but has not been a consistent focus across 
administrations: The Federal Government's greatest asset is its 
people. The strength of any organization rests on its people. 
And to deliver for the public, we must systematically approach 
the Federal workforce and its challenges as critical to our 
success as a Nation.
    The more than 4 million public service servants at home and 
abroad, including military personnel and more than 2 million 
Federal civilians, are dedicated and talented. They serve the 
public regardless of political affiliation or who sits in the 
White House.
    Second, employers are in fierce competition for talent, and 
the Federal Government needs to compete. Our workforce has 
chosen public service. We need to retain our workforce. We also 
need to ensure a strong pipeline that is bringing more talent 
into government to address attrition and to tap into the skill 
sets and capacity needed to deliver for the American people.
    Third, our Federal workforce faces a number of key 
challenges, some of which have been highlighted, including 
demographics, with only eight percent of our Federal civilian 
workforce under the age of 30, 15 percent currently eligible 
for retirement today, a further 30 percent eligible for 
retirement within five years, and with real work to do to 
ensure that the Federal workforce reflects the diversity of the 
public we serve.
    Employee engagement, which tends to correlate to 
organizational performance and for which, on average, the 
Federal Government has lower levels than the private sector. 
And critical skills, such as technology, cybersecurity, and 
data analytics, among a number of other key skill sets. Across 
all three dimensions and others, we need to improve. 
Improvement will take time. It will take commitment, 
leadership, and collaboration with the Congress.
    Fourth, some have argued the challenges we face require a 
fundamental overhaul of the merit system that underpins our 
civil service. I disagree. The merit system principles remain 
essential today. The question is how do we hold true to those 
principles while delivering much needed change on hiring, 
retention, engagement, pay and benefits, critical skills, early 
career talent and internships, culture, leadership, diversity, 
equity, inclusion, and accessibility, and on the workplace and 
personnel policies that will help the Federal Government, a 
mission-driven organization, remain an attractive and 
competitive employer.
    Fifth, the Administration has made strengthening and 
empowering the Federal workforce the first priority in the 
President's Management Agenda, or PMA. This central focus on 
the workforce is a significant action and a significant signal. 
The workforce efforts of our PMA build on Administration 
actions taken to date and include four clear strategies: 
attracting and hiring talent, making every Federal job a good 
job, building a roadmap to the future of Federal work, and 
ensuring the strong central personnel system and support 
required for the Federal Government to be a model employer, all 
of which is driven by performance, performance of our agencies 
on behalf of the public they serve.
    Before discussing the challenges and opportunities, I want 
to say thank you to the Federal workforce for choosing to serve 
your fellow Americans and for stepping up throughout the COVID-
19 pandemic when the country leaned on you more than ever, at 
times at great personal costs. We do not say thank you enough 
to those who have dedicated themselves to public service at all 
levels. Thank you.
    Thank you for the opportunity to appear here today, and I 
look forward to your questions.
    Mr. Connolly. Twenty-five seconds to go. Great job, Mr. 
Miller. Thank you. And thank you for recognizing internships, 
because that's the one piece we can fix fairly swiftly.
    Ms. Ahuja, you are recognized for your five minutes of 
testimony. Welcome.

  STATEMENT OF KIRAN A. AHUJA, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF PERSONNEL 
                           MANAGEMENT

    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you.
    Chairman Connolly, Ranking Member Hice, and members of the 
subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify today on the 
future of Federal employment and OPM's work over the past year.
    At OPM, we're focused on equipping Federal agencies with 
the tools they need to make every Federal job a good job, 
attract top talent, and strengthen Federal personnel practices 
and policies, all to create a more effective and efficient 
Federal Government. It is my honor to lead OPM in this 
important work. I look forward to highlighting our 
accomplishments over the past year.
    First, I want to recognize the entire Federal workforce, 
both those who worked onsite throughout the pandemic and those 
who adapted quickly to new ways of working, for their 
commitment to mission and service to the American people.
    I am also pleased that my colleague and friend, Jason 
Miller, from the Office of Management and Budget, is here 
today. Jason continues to be a critical and like-minded partner 
in OPM's efforts to execute its mission.
    I want to focus on three important ways OPM serves as a 
strong, strategic partner to agencies and put the goals of the 
President's Management Agenda into action. First, promoting 
retention by making every Federal job a good job. Second, 
attracting much needed talent to the Federal workforce. And 
third, strengthening the workforce for now and into the future.
    The Federal Government's most important asset is its 
people. Particularly in the current labor market, government 
must retain the expertise, commitment, and knowledge of Federal 
workers. OPM is aggressively working to help make every Federal 
job a good job and ensure that the Federal Government, as the 
Nation's largest employer, is adopting employment practices 
that set the pace for other sectors to follow.
    For instance, OPM executed the President's vision on the 
$15 minimum wage for Federal employees, immediately raising the 
pay for more than 67,000 workers, many of whom have been on the 
front lines throughout the pandemic and have been across this 
country. We also partnered with USDA and the Department of 
Interior on key provisions of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law 
that increased wildland firefighter pay and created a new 
occupational series. And we issued comprehensive guidance to 
agencies which outlined actions they should take working with 
unions to implement Executive Order 14003.
    OPM is also working to attract top talent to the Federal 
Government. We're improving competitive hiring across the 
government through a focus on skills-based hiring. In May, OPM 
issued critical guidance to help agencies implement this 
vision. We're also working closely with agencies to bring on 
staff needed to implement key provisions of the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law. I look forward to leveraging the lessons 
learned to support hiring initiatives across the government. 
And we're working to implement the President's executive order 
on diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility.
    The Federal Government is at its best when drawing from all 
parts of society. Our greatest accomplishments often result 
when diverse perspectives join together to overcome our 
greatest challenges. This all leads me to what steps we can 
take to prepare the Federal workforce for the future.
    A key lesson from recent years is that workplace 
flexibilities, such as telework, remote work, and hybrid work 
schedules, help ensure Federal operations continue in the face 
of disruptions and improve employee engagement and morale. We 
look forward to providing agencies with additional resources to 
chart a path forward.
    I also recognize that the Federal Government must capture 
and promote innovation. OPM hopes to work with this 
subcommittee to streamline and strengthen existing 
demonstration project authority to foster further innovation. 
We also want to work with Congress to develop a governmentwide 
cyber workforce plan that puts agencies on equal footing and 
competing for cyber talent.
    Additionally, like the private sector, the Federal 
Government needs flexibility to offer competitive pay to retain 
and recruit its workforce and execute agency missions. This 
would include critical pay--critical position pay and 
incentives for highly skilled experts needed to solve critical 
agency challenges, flexibility on special pay rate limitations, 
and more ability for agencies to determine incentive award 
levels on their own.
    I'm proud of what OPM has accomplished during the past 
year, and I'm excited about what's to come.
    I want to again thank Chairman Connolly, Ranking Member 
Hice, and the members of the subcommittee, for the opportunity 
to testify today. I look forward to your questions.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you so much, Director Ahuja, and right 
on time. Great job.
    We're now going to move into members' questions. Because of 
her schedule, the chair is going to switch with the gentlelady 
from Ohio, one of the most faithful members of the 
subcommittee, Shontel Brown, for five minutes of questioning. 
And, Ms. Norton, then you'll be the next on our side. Thank 
you.
    Ms. Brown, you are recognized for your five minutes of 
questioning.
    Ms. Brown. Thank you, Chairman Connolly and Ranking Member 
Hice, for holding this hearing, and my, colleague Congresswoman 
Norton, for allowing me to switch places here this morning.
    The COVID-19 pandemic has taken a toll on workers in every 
sector. For more than two years, workers have had to constantly 
adapt to changing circumstances in their personal lives and 
working arrangements, all while trying to mitigate the dangers 
of the deadly and ever-changing virus. These circumstances 
have, in many cases, exacerbated existing challenges that 
workers face related to their mental health and well-being.
    In May, the Office of Personnel Management released 
guidance for agencies to raise awareness of mental health 
benefits and services available to Federal employees.
    Ms. Ahuja, one of the goals of the President's agenda is 
for agencies to, quote, raise awareness of available mental 
well-being, support, and services. Can you explain what some of 
these available services are and how agencies have been raising 
awareness following OPM's guidance?
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Congresswoman, for that question. And 
I equally share in the concerns of the well-being of the 
Federal workforce, their morale, especially during this really 
trying period. I think more than ever this pandemic has really 
shone the light on the importance of mental health and well-
being.
    And so in May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month, we 
issued guidance that we wanted to share, and we did share, 
across the Federal Government. In many ways, we do a lot of 
this through the CHCO Council, which is the great partnership 
that we have with leaders in H.R. across government, ensuring 
that agencies have the tools and resources that they need.
    In addition, I just wanted to emphasize as well that our 
Federal health program or health benefits program has for a 
number of years really pushed for mental health parity and 
coverage for those services. And the important piece of this 
is, especially around the time of the pandemic, that we had a 
number of our Federal employees utilize telehealth, with almost 
40 percent using that for mental health counseling. So we 
continue to see that as an important resource.
    Finally, I'd just like to mention that Employee Assistance 
Programs, or EAPs, are a critical part of the Federal 
Government services. We are working to revamp that program to 
ensure that there is continuity and standards of programming 
and that we are really encouraging agency leadership, as well 
as Federal Government employees, to utilize these programs.
    Ms. Brown. Thank you, Ms. Ahuja. And how are you making 
sure the workers are aware of these services that are--and 
promoting them, the services?
    Ms. Ahuja. Well, a big part of the work we're doing, like I 
mentioned is through the CHCO Council and their leadership. We 
are encouraging, you know, constant communication by leadership 
through townhalls, through written communication, through the 
H.R. departments. There is a separate office within OPM that is 
focused on mental health awareness and also mental health 
services across the Federal Government. So a big part of their 
job is ensuring that our H.R. departments and every agency have 
those tools.
    Again, Congresswoman, I do want to emphasize that I would 
love to work with you on these Employee Assistance Programs, 
because I do believe that they are going to be the key to 
encouraging greater engagement on mental health resources, 
really removing the stigma that I think at times is often 
attached to these programs, and would appreciate a partnership 
and, of course, resources to be able to expand our effort in 
that regard.
    Ms. Brown. Thank you for that.
    And one thing that we've learned from the pandemic is that 
workers value communication and get clear guidance from the 
organization. So, Mr. Miller, how is OPM working to ensure that 
agencies develop, communicate, and implement clear guidance for 
employees that prioritizes their well-being and resilience?
    Mr. Miller. Congresswoman, thank you for your attention to 
this issue more broadly. And on the specifics of communication, 
you're absolutely right, good internal communication is 
critical, particularly at challenging times, times of change, 
and those times are definitely right now. This is something 
that we've been very focused on.
    As you know, as I mentioned, the President's Management 
Council is the chief operating officers, deputy secretaries, 
and deputy administrators of all of the agencies. The specifics 
of what Director Ahuja noted around actions that OPM has taken 
were communicated out to all of the PMC members, with the 
directions to ensure that they were using that through internal 
communication channels.
    More broadly, we've been encouraging regular 
communications. We have public information available regarding 
health and safety protocols, well-being, et cetera, that we 
made public, but this time of change is critical. It's an area 
that Federal agencies need to improve. With regards to internal 
communication, it's absolutely central if we want to focus on 
the Federal workforce.
    Ms. Brown. Well, thank you. I see my time has expired. I 
just want to squeeze in that I'm a proud sponsor of the 
Connolly's bill that would codify well-being and safety 
procedures for Federal workforces across the board extending 
beyond COVID-19 pandemic and any emerging public health crisis.
    So, with that, Chairman, I yield back. And thank you again, 
Delegate Norton.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentlelady, and I thank her for 
her co-sponsorship of that important piece of legislation.
    The ranking member, Mr. Hice from Georgia, is recognized 
for his five minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Hice. Thank you very much.
    Director Ahuja, in my opening statement, I made reference 
to the Biden Administration, in my opinion, not taking enough 
steps and actions to ensure that poor performers within the 
Federal agencies can be disciplined or removed without undue 
burden. And look, it's not just me. Year after year, Federal 
employees themselves say that poor performers are not handled 
effectively.
    So first question, am I missing something? What is the 
Biden Administration doing to hold poor performers accountable?
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Ranking Member Hice. It's good to 
meet you. Also a fellow Georgian, I might say.
    Mr. Hice. Go Dawgs.
    Ms. Ahuja. Yes, exactly.
    So I share your concern, and I really do appreciate your 
commitment to the Federal workforce in ensuring accountability 
and, of course, the welfare. I will say that in the case of 
concerns around accountability and poor performance, you know, 
it is a private matter that takes place in agencies. So 
oftentimes, for example, through the FEVS scores, which I'm 
familiar with, that is often not a purview that employees, you 
know, may know about within their particular work unit.
    I will also say that, you know, a big part of the work 
we're doing is to ensure that we're giving managers the tools 
in order to measure performance, to be more metric-driven in 
how they are judging performance of their employees, that they 
are--and also ensuring the level of, you know, engagement. You 
know, our biggest sort of note here is that when a workforce or 
a member is engaged and put in the right position with the 
right set of tools and skills, oftentimes you are managing for 
that performance.
    Mr. Hice. Well, with that, if I could ask, with that 
information, the data that you're gathering, does any of it 
show how the inability to deal with poor performers impacts the 
other good performers?
    Ms. Ahuja. Well, I will say, in the most recent FEVS, that 
the scores actually did--are quite, you know, quite good with 
employees being recognized for the work that they're doing. So 
good performers--outstanding performers are being recognized, 
and that is shown in the FEVS 2020----
    Mr. Hice. But no info of how the poor performers impact the 
good performers.
    Let me jump over, Mr. Miller, to you. Are you aware of any 
assessments that were taken from the Biden Administration, 
primarily, regarding the impact of telework before it was 
implemented? I mean, how--did we do any studies to determine 
how this would impact agencies?
    Mr. Miller. Congressman, thank you for your attention to 
this. And I completely share your view on performance and 
accountability. That's our North Star, so the performance to 
Federal agencies through this changing time. The entire labor 
market is going through a significant amount of change. Part of 
what we need to manage through is making sure that we're 
competitive as personnel workplace policies are changing writ 
large.
    One of the things that we undertook last year was a 
comprehensive strategic planning process----
    Mr. Hice. All right. But, please, I only have a few 
minutes. But my question was, was there any assessment done to 
determine how teleworking would impact agencies?
    Mr. Miller. We've been managing, and agencies are required 
to manage and report their annual performance plans of 
organizational units, including those that roughly half of 
Federal employees that expanded the use of telework during the 
pandemic. So managing performance and assessing performance at 
an agency in an operational unit is something that's been done. 
That's also something that we've provided guidance on last year 
in our guidance to agencies in June to both build evidence, 
plans, and develop data around the performance of the unit, 
including the use of telework.
    Mr. Hice. I'd like to see that data. If you could send it 
to us, I would like to see what you've determined.
    As I mentioned earlier, the President said in his State of 
the Union that Federal workers were going to return back to 
work, and that has not been the case. In fact, telework and 
remote work is expanding, and that's a bit concerning to me.
    I don't have much time left. Director Ahuja, let me just 
ask this. You may or not have seen this, but a recent report 
claims that as many as one-quarter of HHS employees never even 
logged into their emails for the first 10 months of COVID. I 
mean, this has to have an enormous impact on an agency, if 
these reports are correct. I mean, how in the world can we have 
Federal employees not even look at their emails for 10 months? 
What is the American public out there doing while they're 
waiting 10 months for somebody to even look at an email?
    I really want to see the assessment, the data that you've 
come up with. Is there anything that we know how much work was 
or was not done by Federal employees during COVID?
    Ms. Ahuja. Could I proceed? I know we're--OK. Great. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Hice. Let's let the--Chairman?
    Ms. Ahuja. OK. Thank you.
    Mr. Connolly. Sorry. The director may respond.
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you.
    Can I just say first and foremost, I understand your 
concern. You know, I would like to really point out the 
incredible resilience of the workforce across the board. You 
know, I'm not aware of the particular incident that you 
mentioned, but I'm sure you're aware more than 50 percent of 
the workforce during the pandemic and now showed up every 
single day because that is what their work required to do. So 
we're talking about a subset of the workforce that are now, you 
know, utilizing some of these workplace flexibilities in a way, 
like my colleague Jason Miller has mentioned, in order to 
optimize customer service and operations, as well as continue 
to have those employees stay in their organizations.
    I will tell you, we have a real competition out there with 
the private sector because they're employing these same 
workplace flexibilities. So we need to do it in a way that's 
going to ensure that we keep, retain, and we recruit, as well 
as ensure around performance and accountability as you speak 
to.
    Mr. Connolly. The gentleman's time has expired.
    But let me, if I may, Mr. Hice, piggyback, Ms. Ahuja or Mr. 
Miller, I think we have to establish, whether it's fact or not, 
is it true that 25 percent of the HHS employees did not even 
respond to a single email for 10 months, the first 10 months of 
the pandemic?
    Mr. Miller. This is the first I have heard of that 
instance.
    Mr. Connolly. All right. So I would ask respectfully if you 
could get back to the subcommittee with that one, because it 
sounds like one of those urban myths, but we certainly want to 
get to the bottom of it. I thank the gentleman.
    Mr. Hice. And that report will be submitted.
    Mr. Connolly. Yes, yes, yes. OK. And we will get the 
response circulated. I thank you for bringing it up.
    The Congresswoman from the District of Columbia, Ms. 
Norton, is recognized for her five minutes of questions. And 
thank you for your patience.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this very 
important hearing, particularly coming now as we are hopefully 
coming out of the pandemic.
    The pandemic forced agencies to confront outdated workforce 
policies and legacy information technology systems unprepared 
to facilitate their execution of their mission. So now is the 
opportunity for the Federal Government to try to figure out 
what worked and what didn't during the pandemic.
    I understand the private sector is making the same 
decisions. To remain a model employer and attract and retain 
the best talent, the Federal Government certainly must adapt.
    Mr. Miller, what do you understand to be the state of the 
Federal workforce, looking at both morale and engagement?
    Mr. Miller. Congresswoman, thank you for that question. 
Thank you for your focus on the Federal workforce.
    As I said at the top, I think we need to start with a 
recognition that our workforce is our single greatest asset. 
Prior to this role, as the CEO of the Greater Washington 
Partnership, a regional organization made up of employers in 
Maryland, Virginia, and the District of Columbia, the leaders 
of those organizations across industry, their No. 1 focus was 
talent, their workforce, how they were retaining talent, how 
they were attracting talent, how they were building pipelines. 
It's something that Federal agencies need to focus on more; one 
of the reasons that we made strengthening upon the Federal 
workforce the first priority in the President's Management 
Agenda.
    As we've noted, the Federal workforce was called on more 
than ever during the COVID-19 pandemic, and like many in the 
country, at great sacrifice. Our workforce has been resilient. 
Our workforce has faced a high workload. One area, in certain 
parts of the government, agency leaders are focused on is 
avoiding burnout risk. And it is clear, both from the data that 
we've gathered through employee surveys and what we've seen 
publicly, our workforce is absolutely dedicated to the mission 
of serving the American people.
    Ms. Norton. So the morale and the engagement was not 
affected by the pandemic?
    Mr. Miller. What we've seen in the engagement and one of 
the things we did was launch the first ever governmentwide 
pulse survey so that we had regular information from the 
Federal workforce regarding how they were doing. We've seen 
sustained employee engagement level across the Federal 
workforce, showing their resilience, showing the ability to 
adjust to working arrangements across agencies.
    I would note that our employee engagement level, on 
average, is not where it should be in the Federal workforce. We 
are below the private sector. That is a risk. That is a risk to 
retention. That is a risk to performance going forward.
    Ms. Norton. Important to note.
    In November of last year, the Biden Administration released 
a blueprint of the President's Management Agenda, highlighting 
the need for government to deliver for all Americans by 
focusing on critical areas of bold transformation.
    Ms. Ahuja, President Biden has designated you as a priority 
area leader for the PMA's first category, strengthening and 
empowering the Federal workforce. How are you advancing this 
priority of the PMA to improve the delivery of services to the 
American public?
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Congresswoman, for that question. And 
I appreciate your leadership.
    First, let me just use this as a point of privilege to 
thank my colleague, Mr. Jason Miller, for his leadership on the 
President's Management Council. His level of dedication is very 
awe-inspiring and his commitment. I speak that similar 
sentiments for the entire President's Management Council; all 
the deputy secretaries, deputy administrators.
    When we set out the PMA, there was no question that we were 
going to put--first and foremost out in center was the 
workforce, to strengthen and empower the Federal workforce. I'm 
excited and really honored that OPM is leading that effort.
    You know, I talked about this in my oral statement. I'll 
just mention again. You know, really, the real pillars of this 
priority area, one is attracting talent. And, of course, early 
career talent is really first and foremost. I appreciate 
Chairman Connolly's attention to these issues. I think it's 
important, and we have impressed upon our colleagues the 
importance of building a pipeline.
    The second is every Federal job should be a good job. You 
know, we have huge competition out there, and we really suffer 
on the lower end and higher ends within the Federal Government 
in recruiting the kinds of skilled talent that we need.
    And, finally, the focus of this particular pillar around 
strengthening and empowering the workforce is focused on the 
future of work. We have to be in line with really where every 
other sector is going. There's a work revolution upon us, and 
either we're part of it or we're behind it.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you.
    Mr. Miller, what is this Administration's vision for 
investing in the current workforce and for recruiting and 
retaining the next generation of civil servants?
    Mr. Connolly. I would ask the gentleman to return to that 
subject, but the gentlelady's time has expired.
    The gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Keller, is recognized 
for his questioning.
    Mr. Keller. Thank you, Chairman Connolly, Ranking Member 
Hice, and to our witnesses for being here today.
    During the State of the Union address this year in 2022, 
President Biden said it's time for America to get back to work. 
People working from home can feel safe again and begin 
returning to their offices. So I hope that the President has 
that same feeling for the people who derive their checks from 
the taxpayers.
    You know, because to the contrary, to the President's 
statement, agencies within the Federal Government continue to 
prolong telework policies that have resulted in bureaucratic 
paperwork nightmares, including a three-year tax processing 
pileup at the IRS.
    So, Mr. Miller, I'll start with a question. How has 
telework affected the efficiency of Federal agencies?
    Mr. Miller. Thank you, Congressman. And as noted, 
undoubtedly, the focus for us is performance. That is the North 
Star, agencies delivering on their mission, and they are 
delivering for the people that they serve. That we have 
specific areas--you noted the IRS that has faced challenges to 
the pandemic. As I understand it, the Treasury Department has 
been providing regular updates on the progress that the IRS is 
making, but they need to do more.
    One of the challenges that we faced with the IRS is 
multiple years of chronic underfunding. So then they stepped 
into a unique situation without the staffing, without the 
resources, without the flexibility to adjust. We need to make 
improvements. They're making improvements.
    One of the things we did for the IRS, a combination of OMB 
and OPM, was made sure that they had flexibility and resources 
and the ability to hire thousands of new employees to try and 
address the challenges and the backlogs that they were facing.
    Mr. Keller. Well, I will just--you know, we're talking 
about teleworking. The question I would have is, what was the 
backlog prior to the pandemic--and everybody's going to say it 
made it worse--but have we become more efficient? I don't know 
whether we measure that or not, efficiency in clearing cases.
    But, you know, we're going to talk about telework and what 
we're doing here. You know, Members of Congress don't even have 
to be in D.C. And if you want to see how inefficient telework 
can be, particularly when you're dealing with the Federal 
Government, all anybody has to do is watch the footage of this 
committee's markup yesterday. Quite frankly, it was pathetic.
    It took over two years to pass a bill that will return 
National Archives records administration employees to the 
office to process a 600,000 request backlog of paperwork that 
did not--that had not been digitized. How are current telework 
policies affecting agencies' customer service abilities? Mr. 
Miller?
    Mr. Miller. Great. Thank you, Congressman. One of the 
things that I think is important is, did we have the right 
systems in place to have flexibility? Did we have digitized 
records? Did we have digitized processing?
    The second pillar, the second priority area of the 
President's Management Agenda is delivering excellent services 
and customer experiences. We're increasing the measurement of 
that. We're reporting that broadly. We have designated 35 high-
impact service providers. We work with each of them to improve 
services. This is a major focus. Some of it is making sure our 
agencies have the tools to deliver across, across the 
government, across the public that they serve, and be able to 
measure it from the experience of the individual, not from the 
experience of the silo or the bureaucratic organization that is 
delivering that service.
    Mr. Keller. Well, I guess I just have another question on a 
concerning note of OPM backlog of unprocessed retirement claims 
for Federal employees. It recently hit a high of 35,424 backlog 
in February, according to the OPM data. This problem is hurting 
Pennsylvania correctional officers and other Federal employees' 
ability to receive their full annuity upon retirement.
    Since we're short on time, I'd like to submit a letter I 
sent to the Office of Personnel Management back on April 8 into 
the record.
    Mr. Connolly. Without objection.
    [The information
    Mr. Keller. Thank you.
    Ms. Ahuja, what is the current status of the issue, and 
what is OPM's plan to resolve the backlog for these records?
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Congressman. And let me just first 
say that I share in the concern around the backlog. Federal 
retirees and families deserve the best customer service, and 
that is what I am committed to.
    I will mention that we're managing a backlog in the midst 
of a surge in retirement over the past year. It's really been 
unprecedented in the numbers. So we're both managing that 
backlog as well as a lot of the incoming.
    I will tell you that we've implemented a number of business 
improvement processes. We have upped production by 20 percent. 
We've brought the backlog down by 15 percent. Certainly, we can 
do more. As well, a big part of this is this particular side of 
OPM, as you know, we faced a potential merger. In the last 
Administration, we were underfunded. We don't have the staff in 
order to manage now a surge in retirement. We appreciate the 
budgets that we've received over the past couple of years and 
will look to work with all of you to ensure that we have the 
staffing.
    I will mention also, like Mr. Miller, is that we're working 
to a process of technological improvements around 
modernization. We have a new call center that's cloud-based 
that now we no longer have dropped calls. We have--people get 
callbacks as well as wanting to bring on the online retirement 
application.
    Mr. Keller. OK. I will just mention, you know, somebody 
that's in need of those benefits, really, they want to have an 
answer. And I just wonder when I can expect to have the 
response from the OPM--can I expect that in the near future.
    Mr. Connolly. The gentleman's time has expired. But let me, 
on his behalf, request, Director Ahuja, we'd like a more 
detailed response, I think, to the whole issue of backlog, 
because it's more than one agency and, obviously, our 
constituents are affected. So I'd ask you, for the record, to 
submit a more detailed analysis of what is the problem and what 
are we doing about it and what's the timeline.
    Ms. Ahuja. Absolutely.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank you.
    Ms. Ahuja. And I would like to mention, Chairman, that we 
do provide regular briefings to your staff, and we can continue 
to do that as well.
    Mr. Connolly. Great. Thank you so much.
    The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Davis, is recognized for 
his questioning.
    Mr. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I also want to 
thank our witnesses for being here and for their informative 
information.
    In June 2021, President Biden signed an executive order to 
strengthen the Federal workforce by promoting diversity, 
equity, inclusion, and accessibility. The Biden 
Administration's vision is to, quote, attract and hire the most 
qualified employees who reflect the diversity of our country in 
the right roles across the Federal Government, end of the 
quote.
    Further, the President's Management Agenda outlines three 
core priorities of this Administration: strengthening and 
empowering the Federal workforce; delivering excellent, 
equitable, and secure Federal services and customer experience; 
managing the business of government.
    Mr. Miller, how does a more diverse, equitable, inclusive, 
and accessible Federal workforce deliver a better customer 
experience from Federal services?
    Mr. Miller. Congressman, thank you for that question. 
Absolutely, part of this approach with regards to DEIA in the 
workforce is about the output that agencies deliver. DEIA both 
helps us attract the full pool of talent, it helps individuals 
perform at their best on the job, and it ensures that we have 
the diversity of the public that we serve, so that our 
agencies, our operating units can put themselves in the shoes 
of the customers who are receiving their services and come up 
with new and innovative ways for how to improve them going 
forward.
    Mr. Davis. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Ahuja, how do paid internships and fellowships promote 
diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility in the 
workforce?
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Congressman Davis, for that question 
and for your commitment to these issues.
    So I've talked a lot about how diversity really--in drawing 
from that diversity makes the Federal Government a much more 
effective employer, drawing from the vast talent that we have 
across this country. I will say in particular, we have been 
talking a bit during this hearing, I know the chairman is very 
concerned and focused on early career talent. Paid internships 
are critical to that piece of ensuring diversity.
    Listen, not everyone can afford an unpaid internship in 
Washington, DC, nor should that be the norm. We really should 
be providing compensation for those early in their careers. I 
would like to point out, Congressman, that we issued direct 
hiring authority focused on post-secondary students who can 
actually get a good-paying job while they're in school so they 
can pay for those fees and also build a level of experience.
    A big part of also the paid internship--our paid internship 
focus is also ensuring a focus on skills-based hiring. So 
certainly this is not just about those who are coming, you 
know, through schools, colleges, but those who are getting 
their experience elsewhere that we're really going to benefit 
and expand the talent pool in so many different ways.
    And as you know, the DEIA executive order talks about 
diversity in very broad ways. We're not just talking--we're 
talking about communities of color, but we're talking about 
individuals with disabilities. We're talking about veterans, 
military spouses, those with economic challenges, whether in 
the rural or urban areas. So we really are going to benefit 
from a broad swap of this country, not only in--not only 
focused on internships and early career talent but across the 
Federal Government workforce.
    Mr. Davis. Let me thank you both for your responses. And I 
also want to take a moment to mention that July is Pride and 
Disability Month and commend the Biden Administration for 
making it a large priority to attract individuals to Federal 
service who otherwise may not have been able to serve. So I 
thank you very much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I yield back the balance of my 
time.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Davis.
    The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Clyde, is recognized for 
his questions.
    Mr. Clyde. Thank you, Chairman Connolly and Ranking Member 
Hice.
    We are here today to talk about a very important matter, 
the future of the Federal workforce. I'm grateful that we're 
having this hearing, because this issue is a tremendous 
problem.
    You know, as a small-business owner myself, I understand 
that a company is only as good as its workers. That's truly 
what make up, you know, what you do and how well you do it. 
It's the people that you employ and how you hold those people 
accountable for the job that they actually do.
    So, you know, when people do not work in person, then it 
becomes very problematic for what they're able to accomplish. 
So I think people need to get back to work.
    I know my Democrat colleagues don't necessarily understand 
these concepts, since many of them are still routinely proxy-
voting and tuning into these committee hearings via video 
conference. And as Mr. Keller mentioned, we had a huge issue 
with that yesterday.
    It's long past time that people return to work in person. 
It's unacceptable that many Federal employees are teleworking 
more than 2-1/2 years since the start of COVID-19. You know, 
even if folks in Washington don't want to recognize it, the 
rest of the United States has moved on and has returned to work 
in person.
    So I think it's imperative that Federal workers return to 
work in person, because people are being hurt by the 
continuation of this telework. Since the start of COVID-19, for 
example, our veterans, of which I am one, have suffered greatly 
by experiencing delays in accessing and receiving their records 
from the NPRC, which has been doing an abysmal job and has a 
tremendous backlog.
    So this leads to my question. Earlier this summer, it was 
reported that 25 percent of Federal bureaucrats at the 
Department of Health and Human Services--this is the Department 
of Health and Human Services now--failed to log in to their 
office suites that included their work email during the first 
10 months of the COVID-19 pandemic.
    And this particular article--and, Mr. Chairman, I would 
like unanimous consent to submit this for the record.
    Mr. Connolly. Without objection.
    Mr. Clyde. All right. It's called ``Quarter of Federal 
Health Workers Failed to Check Email Amid Pandemic.'' It's an 
article from the Free Beacon of June 17, 2022.
    Mr. Clyde. Now, mind you, HHS, they employ 80,000 workers, 
so that's 20,000 employees. And they have a requested mandatory 
budget of $1.7 trillion and $127 billion in discretionary 
spending. That's huge.
    And 25 percent of them for 10 months don't know how to 
check their email or are unable to or simply don't? How in the 
world do you do your work? I mean, if we didn't have email, I 
simply couldn't do my work. How can they do theirs?
    So I want to know, do you find this acceptable, Ms. Ahuja?
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Congressman Clyde, for that question. 
And I know we were speaking about that earlier, about this 
particular issue, and we're certainly going to look into it, as 
Chairman Connolly had mentioned and asked us to.
    I will say that we've talked also a lot about the fact that 
during the pandemic more than 50 percent of the workforce 
continued to show up every day.
    As you know, this is--embracing workplace flexibilities is 
happening in the private sector as well. They are restructuring 
their jobs for telework----
    Mr. Clyde. OK. I just asked the question; do you find that 
acceptable? ``Yes'' or ``no'' would suffice.
    Ms. Ahuja. Well, again, we--the workforce has been 
resilient, and they have showed up, and we have embraced----
    Mr. Clyde. Just answer the question, ma'am. That's all I 
want you to do.
    Ms. Ahuja. We have embraced the telework and remote-work 
arrangements in a way that I think will utilize and maximize--
--
    Mr. Clyde. Ma'am, do you find that 25 percent didn't even 
check their emails for 10 months, is that acceptable or is that 
not?
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Congressman Clyde, for that question.
    As we had discussed earlier----
    Mr. Clyde. I've asked it three times now.
    Ms. Ahuja [continuing]. We are looking into it, and if that 
is the case, that would not be acceptable, no.
    Mr. Clyde. OK. Thank you. That's exactly what I want. So 
that is not acceptable. All right.
    Because what I want to know is, what is the Biden 
Administration's top priority here? Is it giving timely, high-
level customer service to the American people?
    I mean, you just told my colleague Mr. Keller that OPM is 
committed to the best customer service. Is that right?
    Ms. Ahuja. I did.
    Mr. Clyde. OK. All right. So is that the Biden 
Administration's top priority? Or is it, as his executive order 
put out, diversity and inclusion? I mean, what is it? What's 
the top priority?
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Congressman Clyde, for the question.
    I think we have multiple priorities that we're focused on--
--
    Mr. Clyde. Well, what's the top priority? That's what I 
want to know. What's the top priority?
    Ms. Ahuja. We're focused on ensuring that we have a 
workforce that can deliver on customer service and mission to 
the American public.
    We're focused on ensuring that our workforce engage, that 
they feel that there's an inclusive work environment so they 
can excel.
    We are focused on the fact that we have to be a part of 
this future of work. It is also----
    Mr. Clyde. OK. Thank you.
    Ms. Ahuja [continuing]. Being----
    Mr. Clyde. I have one more quick question before my time--
--
    Mr. Connolly. No. No. The gentleman's time has expired. 
The----
    Mr. Clyde. OK.
    Mr. Connolly [continuing]. Gentlemen's time has expired.
    Mr. Clyde. Thank you.
    Mr. Hice. Mr. Chairman?
    Mr. Connolly. Just one second.
    Mr. Sarbanes, you are next, but if you'll just suspend for 
one second.
    The chair recognizes the ranking member for a 
clarification.
    Mr. Hice. Thank you.
    Yes, just a point of clarification, Director Ahuja. You 
mentioned a while ago about briefings that you were providing 
regarding the backlog, to the staff.
    Ms. Ahuja. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Hice. I've been informed, our staff has not received 
any briefings. Can you clarify what briefings you're talking 
about and where are they, why we don't have them?
    Ms. Ahuja. It's for the Appropriations Committee, I 
apologize, not specifically for this committee. But we've been 
providing briefings for the Appropriations Committee, I 
believe, on a regular basis.
    Mr. Hice. All right. But not to this committee?
    Ms. Ahuja. No, sir.
    Mr. Hice. With this committee being Oversight, could you 
provide that to this committee----
    Ms. Ahuja. Absolutely.
    Mr. Hice [continuing]. As well?
    Ms. Ahuja. Absolutely.
    Mr. Connolly. Yes, we get a little touchy, as authorizers, 
when someone invokes Appropriations.
    Ms. Ahuja. Yes, I stand corrected. It was for 
Appropriations.
    Mr. Hice. Well, Oversight needs it. That is our role. Thank 
you.
    Ms. Ahuja. Yes.
    Mr. Hice. And thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the ranking member for the 
clarification. Appreciate it.
    Mr. Sarbanes, you are recognized for your line of 
questioning.
    Mr. Sarbanes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Director Ahuja and Deputy Director Miller, thank you for 
your testimony today.
    I want to first thank Chairman Connolly for his work on all 
of these various issues but certainly his commitment to 
telework. And I was proud to join him recently in introducing 
legislation that will further enhance our ability to gather 
data and refine how telework is distributed across our Federal 
agencies.
    We've already had some conversation about the benefits of 
telework in the hearing today. Obviously, it's a morale 
booster. It helps with continuity of operations. It helps with 
productivity within the agencies.
    Interestingly, as Chairman Connolly knows and I'm sure our 
witnesses know, in agencies that take full advantage of 
telework, we see not only productivity go up among those who 
are using that resource, but it goes up across the entire 
agency, because I think it allows them more focus on metrics 
and performance and other things that can help with the 
efficiency and effectiveness of these agencies.
    I wanted to turn, though, to the recruitment dimension of 
telework. And maybe each of you could speak for a moment to 
exactly what that looks like.
    How is the availability of telework within Federal agencies 
being presented to that potential workforce out there? How are 
you using it in your recruitment efforts? Take me through what 
that process looks like.
    And what's the data showing you on how important the 
telework opportunity is for Federal workers in that recruitment 
effort?
    And why don't we start with Director Ahuja, and then we can 
go to Deputy Director Miller. Thank you.
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Congressman. And I think you laid out 
very eloquently the importance of these workplace flexibilities 
when it comes to productivity, operational ability within an 
organization.
    I think what we're seeing, both in the individuals that we 
have in the workforce around retention, defining the job based 
on the set of responsibilities and whether there can be 
flexibility, both in person and working from home, I think 
we've learned that employees really do want to be able to have 
the flexibility to manage their personal responsibilities.
    In the context of recruitment, absolutely, what we are 
seeing is agency-hopping based on where, you know, employees 
see levels of flexibility. We don't want agencies having to 
compete with each other, you know, for different, you know, 
employees within the Federal Government.
    We're also seeing that this is the wave of the future in 
the private sector. The private sector is defining these 
positions based on if they can provide more workplace 
flexibility. They're training their supervisors; they're 
upgrading their IT. They're working on all these dimensions 
that we want to be doing in the Federal Government so we can 
compete for talent.
    I think one thing I should mention around recruitment is, 
we've now expanded the talent pool. You know, more than 80 
percent of Federal jobs are outside of Washington, DC. We have 
ability to recruit in literally every county, every part of 
this country, in ways that we weren't able to do so before.
    Mr. Sarbanes. Mr. Miller, I'd love to get your perspective.
    Mr. Miller. Great. Congressman, thank you for your 
attention to this issue.
    The only one item that I would add to Director Ahuja's 
statement on this topic is that this is a tool that is 
particularly useful for jobs that are of critical skills. 
Cybersecurity, IT, data analytics--some of those areas where 
some of this work can be performed in a telework setting is 
absolutely critical.
    It's an area that we have a gap today. Being consistent 
with those sectors, with those workers across the country, 
including in the private sector, that's a major tool for us to 
make sure that we're filling that gap and addressing it going 
forward. And it's an expectation, particularly those in early 
career.
    Mr. Sarbanes. Thanks very much.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentleman.
    And the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Biggs, is recognized 
for his round of questions.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this 
hearing.
    Director Ahuja and Deputy Director Miller, thank you for 
being here today.
    Mr. Miller, on your biography, it says you used to work for 
the Boston Consulting Group. BCG works with the Partnership for 
Public Service to survey, assess, and rank Federal agencies and 
their employees to identify the best places to work in the 
Federal Government.
    Are you familiar with that report?
    Mr. Miller. I am, yes.
    Mr. Biggs. Yes. And an agency's score is calculated using a 
proprietary and weighted formula looking at responses to three 
different questions. The questions are: I recommend my 
organization as a good place to work. Considering everything, 
how satisfied are you with your job? And considering 
everything, how satisfied are you with your organization? And 
the more that that question predicts intent to remain with the 
agency, the higher it is weighted in the score.
    Now, the 2021 report was released in the past few weeks. 
Have you had a chance to look at that, Deputy Director Miller?
    Mr. Miller. I have. And I was at the event where it was 
released.
    Mr. Biggs. OK. So you're all in on it.
    So I found the data startling, myself. The report indicates 
that employee engagement and satisfaction dropped by 4.5 points 
from 2020 to 2021. Among large agencies, 16 of 17 dropped; 
midsize agencies, it fell from 12 to--12 of 25 agencies; and 
among small agencies, 17 of 29. I find that startling.
    In your written testimony, Deputy Director, you indicate 
that, quote, ``for the first time in the history of the 
President's management agenda, we place strengthening and 
empowering the Federal workforce as the first priority.''
    So some of these guys are asking about priorities. That, 
apparently, is the first priority of the PMA. The second PMA 
priority focuses on delivering excellent, equitable, and secure 
Federal service and customer experience.
    I am going to correlate the change in the focus on the 
priority with the decline in worker satisfaction in the 
weighted survey that I was just referring to.
    And the reason I do that is that my experience and past 
workplace studies over decades have typically indicated that 
satisfaction in employment is directly correlated to meaningful 
work. And providing service, topflight service, is considered 
by many in the private-sector employment field to be meaningful 
work.
    And it seems to me that the PMA gets this absolutely bass-
ackwards by saying, we're going to go ahead and focus on happy 
employees, if you will, but, at the same time, our second 
priority is going to be service to our customers.
    I mean, I'm going to give you a chance to respond to that, 
because I think it's only fair to let you respond. But that's 
the problem with the PMA, the way I view it. But I'll give you 
just a few seconds to respond, because that's all I've got.
    Mr. Miller. Thanks, Congressman.
    I think we should be concerned about employee engagement 
levels, because, today, Federal employee engagement levels are 
lower than they are in the private sector on average. I think 
that's a problem. I think we should aspire to do better. The 
last two years have been the highest level of employee 
engagement for a long time, but we're far from where we need to 
be.
    We do have some agencies--large, medium, and small--that 
are outperforming the private sector, but, on average, we're 
underperforming.
    Mr. Biggs. Yes.
    Mr. Miller. It absolutely is an issue. The reason----
    Mr. Biggs. OK. So I'm out of time. I mean, we might want to 
extend it sometime when we get more than just 2 or 3 minutes to 
deal with it. But I would like to hear more of what you have to 
say on that, because I don't think it's fair to just cut you 
off, but it's where I've got to go.
    Are any Federal workers with a D.C. duty station--this is 
for you, Director Ahuja--still receiving D.C. cost-of-living 
increases even if they've relocated to areas with lower cost of 
living?
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Congressman, for the question.
    So, if an employee moves out of a particular area or 
adjusts and actually takes on a remote-work arrangement, then 
their duty location changes, according to our guidance, and 
they take on----
    Mr. Biggs. So I guess----
    Ms. Ahuja. They take on the locality pay of that particular 
area that they're----
    Mr. Biggs. So you're telling us, then--I'm going to 
extrapolate from that, you're saying that, no, nobody with a 
D.C. duty station who's relocated to an area outside of a D.C. 
duty station is receiving D.C. duty cost of living?
    Ms. Ahuja. I was talking generally what happens when----
    Mr. Biggs. I'm not talking generally. I'm talking 
specifically.
    That's the problem with your answers today. They've been 
generic, 30,000-foot. When people have asked you specific 
questions, I get an ethereal answer. I have a specific 
question. It's a ``yes'' or ``no'' answer. Generically, I would 
say, ``OK, well, she must mean no,'' but I don't know what the 
answer to the question is, because you didn't answer it.
    Ms. Ahuja. Well, I apologize if that came across. You know, 
I was just trying to give the general sense of how----
    Mr. Biggs. I have the general sense.
    Ms. Ahuja. OK.
    Mr. Biggs. I'm not an idiot. We do this for a living. I 
want to know about the D.C. workstation stuff.
    Mr. Connolly. The gentleman's time has expired, but the 
Director is allowed to respond briefly.
    Ms. Ahuja. Sure. Thank you, Chairman.
    So, right now, the current policy is, if you're in a 
particular area where you report two days a pay period to your 
duty location, then you are paid that particular locality area.
    Now, we are hoping to work with the subcommittee where we 
can make changes in the case where actually that person is 
still within the broader, you know, national capital region but 
is living much farther beyond but is still able to report to 
the duty location two days per pay period.
    So that's how it stands. That's the current guidance and 
law as it is. We look forward to working with you----
    Mr. Biggs. So that would be a ``yes'' to the question I 
asked, and reform needs to be undertaken. Is that----
    Mr. Connolly. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Ms. Ahuja. Uh-huh.
    Mr. Biggs. Is that fair?
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentleman.
    The gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Raskin, is recognized for 
his line of questioning.
    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
    Our constituents, you know, relay on the USAJOBS website to 
find out about different employment opportunities and job 
openings, and that site has been plagued with a lot of 
difficulties in the past.
    I know some improvements have been made. But I'm wondering, 
Ms. Ahuja, how OPM is working to continue to improve the 
website and the Federal hiring process so our constituents 
aren't so frustrated by it.
    Mr. Connolly. You need to turn your mic on.
    Ms. Ahuja. I think I turned it off when I meant--thank you, 
Congressman, for that question.
    There's been a lot of effort focused on the USAJOBS 
website. We know it's an important portal that hundreds of 
applicants go to.
    It's really a two-part process. We're improving the 
platform both in creating career paths on the job site, doing 
better tagging of the jobs so that if you're looking for cyber 
positions you can find those readily, easily. We're also 
working more closely with the agencies around being more 
responsive to applicants.
    So there's the side where you have the agencies and how 
they're interfacing with the job website and ensuring--you 
know, one of the complaints we, you know, receive often is 
applicants being able to get some feedback on where their 
application is. So, really, that is in the training and 
encouraging agencies to do that. On the flip side, it's also 
making the job site much more user-friendly.
    We've been doing a lot of training and outreach and 
webinars with prospective applicants, as well, in order to get 
them more comfortable with the website.
    I should mention that, most recently, we've also created an 
ability for agencies to tag their positions as remote 
positions. We see this as a great opportunity, again, to expand 
the applicant pool, to give agencies a much, kind of, broader 
breadth in who they're bringing in to the Federal Government.
    Mr. Raskin. I appreciate that.
    A couple of--several constituents, actually, have talked to 
me about the problem of age discrimination. And there's a 
recent study that showed that 78 percent of older workers 
experience age discrimination.
    I know that older workers are not leaving their age on the 
USAJOBS website, but, you know, there's still the opportunity 
to determine their age or roughly what their age is. What steps 
are you taking to protect older workers from age discrimination 
in the job-application process?
    Ms. Ahuja. Congressman, I appreciate that question.
    You know, like you said, we do encourage applicants, again, 
you know, not listing years of when they graduated, that there 
is--again, really looking at the set of skills and experience 
that an applicant has.
    You know, as a part of our diversity and equity inclusion 
and accessibility executive order we have, really, every agency 
has created their strategic plan to focus on ensuring that they 
have a fair and equitable way in how they do recruitment and 
also how they do retention around promotions and development.
    And then, finally, I'd like to say, you know, we have a 
workforce that, you know, skews in the 40's and 50's, and, you 
know, we do tend to draw in individuals with much more 
experience who are later in their careers. And Chairman 
Connolly showed that in his earlier example during his 
statement. So we do pride ourselves in trying to bring in, you 
know, a vast diversity of individuals no matter, kind of, their 
experience or age or their background.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you.
    There are critical skills gaps in a bunch of different 
Federal positions, like cybersecurity, human resources, and so 
on.
    Mr. Miller, what do you see as the primary skills gaps 
taking place across the government? And what happens if we're 
not able to fill those?
    Mr. Miller. Congressman, thank you for the question. Thank 
you for your attention to your constituents, because I am one 
of them.
    I want to--on this, this is something I am very focused on. 
We held a convening--the Administration held a convening 
earlier this week on cyber jobs. This is a challenge across the 
economy writ large, noting that there's over 700,000 cyber job 
openings.
    This is an area that the Federal Government needs more 
talent in-house, needs more capability in-house, given the 
transformation that is underway. OMB released a zero-trust 
strategy that our agencies are implementing over time. We need 
the people to be able to do that. Cyber and tech are front and 
center, and that's an area that we're particularly focused on.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you very much.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentleman.
    The chair recognizes himself for his questioning.
    Ms. Ahuja, I've talked a lot, and you and I've talked 
privately as well, about using internships as a way to recruit 
talent and hopefully retain it. And I've shared with you my 
chagrin at the complete lack of uniformity, any kind of 
systematic approach.
    In fact, in some Federal agencies, it would be better to 
abolish any internships than continue them, because we have 
people saying, after they complete an internship, ``I'd rather 
put my head through a pencil sharpener than ever work for the 
Federal Government.'' That's how successful internships are.
    And when we contrast it with the private sector, as you 
know, Mr. Miller, it is unbelievably different. I know one firm 
where, if you--it's a competitive process. It's a prestige 
thing to do on a college campus. If you are lucky enough to be 
selected through a rigorous process to be an intern, the 
chances of a job offer are in the 80th percentile. We're in the 
single percentile, I think, in the Federal Government.
    Ms. Ahuja, just for the record, can OPM tell us the exact 
number of Federal interns across the Federal Government?
    Ms. Ahuja. So we're only able to determine with the 
authorities that we have--so the Pathways and the direct hire 
authorities--but we're not able to do that across----
    Mr. Connolly. So there's no central data base to know how 
many interns are there?
    Ms. Ahuja. No, there isn't.
    Mr. Connolly. Huh.
    Second, can OPM determine how many interns are paid or 
unpaid in the Federal Government?
    Ms. Ahuja. With the various programs that exist across the 
agencies, we're not able to do that, Chairman.
    Mr. Connolly. So we don't know how many, we don't know 
whether they're paid or they're unpaid, and we don't know the 
mix.
    At this time, can OPM determine how many Federal 
internships are converted into permanent Federal employment?
    Ms. Ahuja. And this is also a particular concern for me, 
because I think the conversion piece is important. And we're 
able to do that for Pathways and some of the specific 
authorities, but not across----
    Mr. Connolly. Right.
    Ms. Ahuja [continuing]. The board, no.
    Mr. Connolly. This is unbelievable.
    So, Mr. Miller, I like looking at problems that maybe lend 
themselves to straightforward fixes. Not everything does, but 
some things do, and it's a start. This one seems, to me, a very 
fixable problem.
    But it requires political will to systematize in order to 
utilize internships as a tool, a portal, for recruitment into 
the Federal Government and hopefully retention. But it's got to 
be a program that I leave feeling it was meaningful, it really 
gave me an orientation, there's a desire for public service 
after this exposure because I'm motivated. Apparently, we're 
not doing any of that.
    And Director Ahuja's Office of Personnel Management, which 
is kind of the HR, you know, focus of the Federal Government, 
doesn't have the legal authority or the tools to even collect 
the data that would help us decide what's the problem and how 
do we fix it.
    Would you comment?
    Mr. Miller. Thank you, Chairman.
    And, yes, internships are a key tool for most private-
sector organizations, most large private-sector organizations, 
as early career talent. In one of my previous stints in the 
private sector, the vast majority of our early career talent 
came through an internship program.
    In the Federal Government, it doesn't work that way. It is, 
most interns do not convert into career hires. That's something 
that we have talked about at the PMC level. It's a huge 
problem.
    We've made this a focus, including by increasing paid 
internships because it gives us a mechanism for agencies to 
both have measurement and accountability. By paying for 
interns, it also increases the incentive structure in an agency 
to have a good experience so they're getting a return on 
investment, including by converting to early career talent.
    One additional thing I would note, because it is an area of 
focus for both Director Ahuja and I, is improving the personnel 
vetting system. Internships are a way to improve the personnel 
vetting system by getting people earlier in their career, in an 
internship, into the national security clearance process.
    Mr. Connolly. So what do you think we should do about it? I 
mean, everything you said is good, but, given Director Ahuja's 
answers to my three questions about this data, it sounds like 
everything we're doing is anecdotal, so, ``We think this would 
happen,'' ``We're pretty confident that if we paid this 
happens.''
    Mr. Miller. Yes.
    Mr. Connolly. But there's no rhyme nor reason across the 
Federal Government to internship policies, let alone having 
some kind of central data bank that allows us rationally to 
make informed decisions about that program and how best to 
utilize it.
    Mr. Miller. Absolutely. Improving our H.R. data is 
something that we need to do writ large. And internships are 
one example of the problem that we have on centralized H.R. 
data.
    Mr. Connolly. My time has expired, but let me just tell 
both of you, I'm a dog on a bone on this subject. I've been 
working on it for 14 years, and I'm hoping this time's the 
magic. But I hope I can recruit both of you to cooperate with 
us to try to really at least fix this part that helps your job 
of recruitment and retention a little easier.
    I thank you both.
    I see Mr. Lynch has joined us. The gentleman from 
Massachusetts is recognized for his line of questioning.
    And before I call on you, Mr. Lynch, if you would just 
indulge us, I would ask unanimous consent that the gentleman 
from Virginia, Mr. Beyer, be waived on to the subcommittee for 
the purpose of questioning our witnesses.
    Without objection, it is so ordered. Thank you.
    Mr. Lynch.
    Mr. Lynch. All right. Good morning, and thank you, Mr. 
Chairman. I appreciate you putting this together.
    Mr. Miller and Ms. Ahuja, I know that in certain sectors 
we've had substantial increases in wages. And I will give you a 
good example. In the healthcare industry, especially direct 
care within institutions in the eastern part of the United 
States, we have seen 10-to 15-percent increases over the last 
two years since 2020 in hospitals among, you know, nurses and 
staff and therapists and doctors.
    I have three VA hospitals in my district, and I know that 
those individuals are some of our highest performers. And 
especially during this pandemic, they have been absolutely 
heroic in the work that they have done in our VA facilities. 
Their outcomes have been substantially better, I think, in some 
cases, then private institutions performing similar services.
    And I just want to ask you about our ability to retain. And 
we are in a competitive relationship with the private sector 
here when we try to hire individuals to come onto the Federal 
payroll. I want to talk about some of our top performers, our 
best performers, and what motivates them to stay on the public 
payroll, working for the Federal Government, serving our 
veterans in this case, rather than going for higher wages in 
the private sector.
    Could you speak to that a little bit, Mr. Miller or Ms. 
Ahuja?
    Mr. Miller. I think one of the things that distinguishes 
our public servants, irrespective of their role, including 
those who are top performers or bringing specific technical 
skills, is the ability for impact. It's the public service that 
they're doing each and every day that is what motivates them.
    But, at the same time, we do need to be competitive. It's 
not just about one individual, but if we look at things like 
healthcare workers or cyber and tech or other areas, we do need 
enough flexibility to be competitive.
    And we also need to do it in a way that's consistent across 
the Federal Government. When we have different authorities and 
different approaches to similar types of jobs and similar types 
of skills in one agency over another, it creates an imbalance 
that harms the Federal Government overall and makes us less 
competitive in the labor market.
    Ms. Ahuja. And, Congressman, I'd like to add that, in 
particular, you know, we have a couple of proposals that we'd 
love to work with this committee on around increasing 
competitive pay for some of these highly skilled experts.
    And, also, particularly in the cyber and IT fields, we 
really do suffer in this area around competition, and we've 
created competition within and among our agencies. This 
Congress passed a particular cyber talent program for DHS that 
has now become, sort of, you know, kind of the king of programs 
within the Federal Government, and other agencies are having to 
compete with that.
    I will mention that VA just recently passed a bill--or a 
bill was passed to support some of the VA efforts related to 
the toxins with burn pits, and they had a number of proposals 
focused on recruitment and retention and pay that they needed 
in order to bring doctors and other healthcare personnel into 
their facilities.
    Mr. Lynch. Well, thank you very much. I'd be happy, and I'm 
sure the chairman will be happy, to work with you, and the 
members of this committee, on those incentives in highly 
competitive areas.
    I would like to ask you about cyber and--well, 
cybersecurity, principally. How are we doing--in the private 
sector, this area is rich in opportunity. And we seem to be 
falling farther behind in our efforts to protect the Federal 
cyber system.
    So where are we now? I know we've had some hellacious 
breaches. I know OPM, there was a major hack a few years ago. 
We're dealing still with a couple of vulnerabilities, some 
zero-day breaches.
    Where are we in terms of trying to attract personnel that 
could help us in that area?
    Mr. Connolly. In 20 seconds.
    Mr. Miller. So this is a place that is a challenge for the 
Federal Government; it's a challenge for a lot of employers. 
There's a shortage across the country.
    We're very focused on it. Cyber is an opportunity. We've 
put a lot of effort in with this release of the zero-trust 
strategy. It gives us a roadmap. It's been lauded by the 
private sector.
    And giving people the opportunity, whether it's on a 
permanent basis or on a tour-of-duty opportunity, is a huge, 
huge place for us to go. But it's going to be a lot of people 
that we need to bring in.
    Mr. Connolly. You sound like the King of Siam Mr. Miller
    Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Lynch.
    Everything he said was--frankly, it's a puzzlement. It's a 
challenge.
    And, by the way, we were talking about internships and how 
successful they can be. You can see, we have succeeded in 
recruiting the youngest generation.
    Camry, welcome to the government Operations Subcommittee. 
You're a welcome addition.
    The gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Beyer, is recognized for 
his line of questioning.
    Mr. Beyer. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. And thank you 
for allowing me to waive on to the hearing. It's an honor to be 
a temporary waived-on member of the Oversight Committee.
    Chairman Connolly, historically, the government has served 
as a model employer in terms of benefits to employees----
    Mr. Connolly. What happened?
    Mr. Beyer. I keep getting video turned off, but I will try 
to turn it on again as I failed to start.
    Mr. Connolly. Well, could you repeat the question?
    Mr. Beyer. Yes, please.
    To Ms. Ahuja, how does a lack of paid leave create a burden 
on Federal employees who have a serious illness, seriously ill 
family members, or a deployed family member?
    Ms. Ahuja. Thank you, Congressman. And just so I 
understand, you were saying the lack of paid leave and how that 
impacts an employee?
    Mr. Beyer. Exactly, yes. Thank you.
    Ms. Ahuja. No, I appreciate that question and your concern 
about having the support systems for employees. And I think, 
certainly, we've seen that during the height of the pandemic, 
where we were able to institute some of those flexibilities to 
manage illness, to manage exposure.
    We have benefited greatly from the paid parental leave, the 
paid parental leave that Chairwoman Maloney was a real champion 
for. And that has been a real incentive. Our recent Federal 
health benefits survey showed that women, females 40 and under 
see it as a major reason why they stay in the Federal 
Government.
    I would say, for the same reason, there's a real interest 
in providing broader paid leave. We have the FMLA. We know 
oftentimes that our employees deal with major illnesses. They 
certainly can utilize FMLA. They can utilize voluntary leave 
banks, and I know that's an effort that exists in a lot of 
agencies.
    But, certainly, we're looking, as we've talked earlier, 
about mental health, about morale, about creating a workforce 
that is a model employer, that's providing a range of benefits 
that I think will be a part of the attraction to the Federal 
Government.
    Mr. Beyer. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Ahuja, when looking at the future of Federal work, how 
would providing comprehensive paid family medical leave make 
the government benefits comparable to those offered by the 
large private-sector corporations, the ones who are competing 
with us for that talent?
    Ms. Ahuja. And just so I understand, Congressman, you're 
talking about comprehensive paid parental leave or just paid 
leave?
    Mr. Beyer. Comprehensive paid Federal leave. How would that 
affect our ability to compete for the talent?
    Ms. Ahuja. Well, right now, yes, you know, we have paid, 
you know, maternity/paternity leave, which has been a huge 
incentive. I think it allows us to be competitive. You know, we 
talk about every Federal job being a good-paying job, and a 
part of that is having a comprehensive set of benefits.
    I will tell you, also, in our surveys, that our retirement 
program, TSP, the annuity that Federal employees get, is a 
major reason why we have such high retention in the Federal 
Government.
    So I would agree that providing, you know, broader support 
around leave would only, you know, further add to the 
commitment that we have from Federal employees.
    Mr. Beyer. Thank you.
    And one more question. When the President took office, one 
of his first acts was to sign Executive Order 14003. That 
reversed several of the policies that took time away from union 
access to facilities. This executive order allowed unions to 
better negotiate with management, took away the disaster 
Schedule F proposal.
    Can you walk us through the executive orders? And why do 
you think President Biden prioritized these?
    Ms. Ahuja. Is this to me, Congressman? OK. Yes, of course.
    Well, you know, let me first say that I share the 
President's commitment to a strong partnership with our union 
partners. They are the voice of employees on the front lines. 
They provide, you know, broad perspective around ideas around 
efficiency and how we can be a more effective government. I 
have certainly see that firsthand.
    You know, the President in his first week made it very 
clear that, you know, we were going to reset the relationships 
with our union partners, and OPM takes a lot of pride in really 
being out there, front and center, in supporting agencies and 
rebuilding those relationships. We serve as a point of 
escalation. You know, there's 2,000 bargaining units across the 
Federal Government, and we are certainly working hard to reset 
those relationships and get on better footing.
    I should also say that, you know, we're a part of the Task 
Force on Worker Empowerment and Organizing, and really trying 
to set the tone for positive, you know, engagement with unions, 
how we can ensure that we really are creating a workspace where 
workers can organize.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentleman. His time has expired.
    Mr. Beyer. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you for joining us today, Mr. Beyer.
    And let me just say, we just learned that the President of 
the United States has been diagnosed with COVID-19, 
underscoring the fact that this pandemic is not over and 
underscoring the fact that even the highest Federal employee is 
vulnerable to this virus.
    We wish the President well and hope he has a speedy 
recovery.
    Let me just say in closing, I want to thank my friends on 
this side of the aisle for their cooperative spirit in trying 
to make sure we get this hearing concluded before votes are 
called, and we've done that.
    I also want to say, I want to thank our two witnesses for 
their commitment to the Federal workforce and the Federal 
employees, individually and collectively.
    We've hopefully learned a lot from the pandemic, and 
there's more we've got to learn from. There are going to be 
changes in the Federal workforce as we go forward, some of them 
pandemic-driven or--accelerated, some of them not related to 
the pandemic but just demographics. We've got to recruit and 
retain the workforce of the future. And we're looking at not a 
small number of people, as Director Ahuja indicates; we're 
talking hundreds of thousands of people.
    I do believe that, as I said earlier, there are some 
things, though, that lend themselves to fairly straightforward 
fixes if we put our mind to it. They're management issues. 
They're not rocket science.
    And I believe trying to make a viable internship program 
that's a stellar program, like the private sector often has, is 
one step in the recruitment and retention challenge we can fix 
if we have the political will to do it, if we care enough to 
make that a priority. It is a priority for me, and I hope it 
will be for both of you. And we look forward to working with 
you.
    We've also had requests for information we want to make 
sure we followup on. The story in the Free Beacon on not 
checking emails, we've got to track that down and make sure--
hopefully, that's not true, but if it is, what corrective 
measures we're going to take. And then we're also going to look 
at briefings that the Appropriations Committee apparently got.
    But we very much look forward to working with you. You 
know, during this pandemic, there are heroic figures in the 
Federal Government--Federal employees who put themselves at 
risk to try to make sure the American people are served with 
vital services every day. And we know that, and we appreciate 
that. And we want to make sure, as we move forward, that they 
continue to be protected and honored for their service.
    Thank you. This hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 10:41 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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