[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                ASSESSING FEDERAL PROGRAMS FOR MEASURING
                    GREENHOUSE GAS SOURCES AND SINKS

=======================================================================

                             JOINT HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY
                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
                             AND TECHNOLOGY

                                 OF THE

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             JUNE 23, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-62

                               __________
                                  

 Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology
 
 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
 
 
       Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov 

                               __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
47-809PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
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              COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

             HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas, Chairwoman
ZOE LOFGREN, California              FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma, 
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon                 Ranking Member
AMI BERA, California                 MO BROOKS, Alabama
HALEY STEVENS, Michigan,             BILL POSEY, Florida
    Vice Chair                       RANDY WEBER, Texas
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey           BRIAN BABIN, Texas
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York              ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
MELANIE A. STANSBURY, New Mexico     MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida
BRAD SHERMAN, California             JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado              DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida
JERRY McNERNEY, California           MIKE GARCIA, California
PAUL TONKO, New York                 STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma
BILL FOSTER, Illinois                YOUNG KIM, California
DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey          RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
DON BEYER, Virginia                  JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas
CHARLIE CRIST, Florida               CARLOS A. GIMENEZ, Florida
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                JAY OBERNOLTE, California
CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania             PETER MEIJER, Michigan
DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina         JAKE ELLZEY, TEXAS
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin                MIKE CAREY, OHIO
DAN KILDEE, Michigan
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
                                 ------                                

                Subcommittee on Research and Technology

                HON. HALEY STEVENS, Michigan, Chairwoman
MELANIE A. STANSBURY, New Mexico     RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa, 
PAUL TONKO, New York                     Ranking Member
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin                ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania             JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana
BILL FOSTER, Illinois                JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas
CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania             PETER MEIJER, Michigan
DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina         JAKE ELLZEY, TEXAS
                                 ------                                

                      Subcommittee on Environment

              HON. MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey, Chairwoman
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon             STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma,
DAN KILDEE, Michigan                   Ranking Member
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas               ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
CHARLIE CRIST, Florida               RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                CARLOS A. GIMENEZ, Florida
                        
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                             June 23, 2022

                                                                   Page

Hearing Charter..................................................     2

                           Opening Statements

Statement by Representative Haley Stevens, Chairwoman, 
  Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science, 
  Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........     8
    Written Statement............................................     9

Statement by Representative Randy Feenstra, Ranking Member, 
  Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science, 
  Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........    10
    Written Statement............................................    11

Written statement by Representative Mikie Sherrill, Chairwoman, 
  Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and 
  Technology, U.S. House of Representatives......................    12

Written statement by Representative Stephanie I. Bice, Ranking 
  Member, Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, 
  Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........    13

Written statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, 
  Chairwoman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. 
  House of Representatives.......................................    14

                               Witnesses:

Dr. Eric K. Lin, Director, Material Measurement Laboratory, 
  National Institute of Standards and Technology
    Oral Statement...............................................    15
    Written Statement............................................    17

Dr. Ariel Stein, Acting Director, Global Monitoring Laboratory 
  and Director, Air Resources Laboratory, National Oceanic and 
  Atmospheric Administration
    Oral Statement...............................................    26
    Written Statement............................................    28

Dr. Karen M. St. Germain, Earth Science Division Director, 
  Science Mission Directorate, National Aeronautics and Space 
  Administration
    Oral Statement...............................................    35
    Written Statement............................................    37

Dr. Bryan Hubbell, National Program Director for Air, Climate, 
  and Energy, Office of Research and Development, United States 
  Environmental Protection Agency
    Oral Statement...............................................    45
    Written Statement............................................    47

Discussion.......................................................    55

 
                       ASSESSING FEDERAL PROGRAMS
                        FOR MEASURING GREENHOUSE
                         GAS SOURCES AND SINKS

                              ----------                              


                        THURSDAY, JUNE 23, 2022

                  House of Representatives,
           Subcommittee on Research and Technology,
        joint with the Subcommittee on Environment,
               Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The Subcommittees met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in 
room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Haley 
Stevens [Chairwoman of the Subcommittee on Research and 
Technology] presiding.

[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairwoman Stevens. This hearing will come to order. My 
colleague, Congressman Feenstra, we're both running from 
meetings, but this is an exciting and important topic. So 
without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recess at 
any time.
    Before I deliver my opening remarks, I wanted to note that 
today's Committee hearing is meeting both in person and 
virtually. Just a couple of reminders to Members about the 
conduct of this hearing. First, Members and staff who are 
attending in person may choose to be masked. It's not a 
requirement. However, any individuals with symptoms, a positive 
test, or exposure to somebody with COVID-19 should wear a mask 
while present.
    Members who are attending virtually should keep their video 
feed on as long as they are present in the hearing. Members are 
responsible for their own microphones. Please keep your 
microphones muted unless you're speaking.
    Finally, if Members have documents they wish to submit for 
the record, please email them to the Committee Clerk, whose 
email address was circulated prior to the hearing.
    So, good morning, and welcome to today's joint hearing to 
examine Federal programs for measuring greenhouse gas sources 
and sinks. I really want to thank our distinguished panel of 
witnesses. It's just so great to be with so many of you in 
person today.
    The vast majority of American adults, 78 percent, now say 
that they have been personally affected by extreme weather 
events in the last 5 years. This is according to a nationwide 
survey released this week by the Harvard School of Public 
Health, NPR (National Public Radio), and the Robert Wood 
Johnson Foundation. Americans report these events caused 
serious health problems, severe financial woes, and property 
damage. I know just yesterday I was talking to a Michigander 
who said she is still getting her house in order from floods 
she experienced last year. No State in our Nation is untouched 
by the damaging physical and emotional impacts of climate 
change.
    As the hottest part of the year now gets underway, families 
across the country are bracing themselves for another season of 
devastating hurricanes, storms, floods, fires, and heat waves 
all while we're just trying to enjoy the Fourth of July. So it 
is timely that on the brink of this summer season we are 
holding this hearing to examine the tools the government has to 
properly track our greenhouse gas emissions and where our data 
is falling short.
    Greenhouse gases act like a blanket. The gases trap heat in 
the atmosphere. These gases include carbon dioxide, methane, 
nitrous oxide, and other fluorinated gases. And they are 
drive--they are a driving force of climate change. Since the 
start of the Industrial Revolution, human activities have 
vastly increased the volume of greenhouse gases emitted into 
the atmosphere. Reducing greenhouse gas emissions is essential 
to mitigating the effects of climate change. I hope that that 
is no longer a controversial statement in Congress or one that 
requires further explanation. It is the year 2022, and we have 
been talking about this since mid-last century. Yet we seem to 
be arguing about whether or not we should do anything.
    And so I can only hope that this Nation's leaders are able 
to come together soon to enact real policy to reduce emissions 
and address the threats that are already at our door because it 
is not too late for us to respond. And in fact, this can be an 
opportunity for us. I come from an industrial State. I come 
from the heart of automotive land in Michigan, and our industry 
leaders are also environmental leaders because our industry 
leaders are our manufacturers. They are the people who work in 
manufacturing facilities who love to go up north. They love to 
access our Great Lakes. They like a regular temperature over 
the summer. And they certainly don't want to experience 
flooding in their home and incurring the costs.
    So when we don't enact real policy, we need the tools to 
track progress and guide evidence-based decisionmaking. That's 
what this Science Committee is all about. We will want the most 
accurate tools to ensure that we are reaching our goals, but 
also importantly, ensure that we are able to hold other nations 
to accountable measurements to be global leaders. We need 
accurate and consistent greenhouse gas data.
    And that is where our Federal science agencies come in. 
Many of our agencies, including those represented by the 
experts before us today, are engaged in tremendous research and 
development (R&D) work to improve our measurements of 
greenhouse gas emissions. This work spans the whole range of 
greenhouse gas measurement activities, from fundamental 
measurement science and technology development to operation of 
science-based airborne and ground-based sensors and observation 
platforms to maintaining greenhouse gas emissions inventories.
    These agencies do not do this work in a vacuum. Each of 
these agencies represented here today cooperate on vital 
interagency work to improve greenhouse gas measurement, both on 
individual projects and as part of an interagency working 
group. Hurray, government coming together for a productive 
outcome for the public good. This cooperation is essential to 
the success of our greenhouse gas measurements. So much can be 
accomplished when our Federal science agencies leverage their 
respective expertise in support of a common goal.
    I am looking forward to this hearing, and I'm looking 
forward to hearing more about the work that our witnesses are 
here today to discuss with us to support and improve the 
programs underway. So thank you again for joining us.
    [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Stevens follows:]

    Good morning and welcome to today's joint hearing to 
examine federal programs for measuring greenhouse gas sources 
and sinks. I thank our distinguished panel of witnesses--it is 
great to be with so many of you in person today.
    The vast majority of U.S. adults--78 percent--say they have 
been personally affected by extreme weather events in the past 
five years. This is according to a nationwide survey released 
this week by the Harvard School of Public Health, NPR, and the 
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Americans report these events 
caused serious health problems, severe financial woes, and 
property damage. No state in our nation is untouched by the 
damaging physical and emotional impacts of climate change.
    As the hottest part of the year now gets underway, families 
across the country are bracing themselves for another season of 
devastating hurricanes, storms, floods, fires, and heat waves. 
So, it is timely, that on the brink of this summer season, we 
are holding this hearing to examine the tools the government 
has to properly track our greenhouse gas emissions and where 
our data is falling short.
    Greenhouse gases act like a blanket--the gases trap heat in 
the atmosphere. These gases include carbon dioxide, methane, 
nitrous oxide, and other fluorinated gases, and they are a 
driving force of climate change. Since the start of the 
Industrial Revolution, human activities have vastly increased 
the volume of greenhouse gases emitted into the atmosphere.
    Reducing greenhouse gas emissions is essential to 
mitigating the effects of climate change. I hope that is no 
longer a controversial statement in Congress, or one that 
requires further explanation. Yet we still seem to be arguing 
about whether to do anything about it.
    I can only hope that this nation's leaders are able to come 
together soon to enact real policy to reduce emissions and 
address to the threats that are already at our door.
    Because it isn't too late for us to respond.
    When we do enact real policy, we will need the tools to 
track progress and guide evidence-based decision-making. We 
will want the most accurate tools to ensure we are reaching our 
goals, but also importantly, ensure we are able to hold other 
nations to accountable measurements. To be global leaders, we 
need accurate and consistent greenhouse gas data.
    And that is where our Federal science agencies come in. 
Many of our agencies, including those represented by the 
experts before us today, are engaged in tremendous research and 
development work to improve our measurements of greenhouse gas 
emissions. This work spans the whole range of greenhouse gas 
measurement activities from fundamental measurement science and 
technology development, to operation of space-based, airborne, 
and ground-based sensors and observation platforms, to 
maintaining greenhouse gas emissions inventories.
    These agencies do not do this work in a vacuum. Each of the 
agencies represented here today cooperate on vital interagency 
work to improve greenhouse gas measurement, both on individual 
projects and as part of an interagency working group. This 
cooperation is essential to the success of our greenhouse gas 
measurements. So much can be accomplished when our federal 
science agencies leverage their respective expertise in support 
of a common goal.
    I'm looking forward to hearing more about this work from 
our witnesses today and to discussing what we here in Congress 
can do to support and improve these programs. I'd like to again 
thank our witnesses for joining us today.

    Chairwoman Stevens. The Chair is now going to recognize 
Ranking Member Feenstra for an opening statement.
    Mr. Feenstra. Well, thank you, Chairwoman Stevens, and 
thank you for your passion. And thank you to our witnesses for 
your participation today. I'm very grateful to have you here 
and to hear from you.
    We're here to discuss the measurement and monitoring of 
greenhouse gases, which can improve the tools we have available 
to reduce and capture emissions. Importantly, we're not just 
going to discuss emissions but also sinks and the processes 
that remove greenhouse gases from our atmosphere. One example 
is the land use and forestry sector, which offset total U.S. 
greenhouse gas emissions by 13 percent in 2020. This is an 
important contribution to emission reductions, and Federal R&D 
can help us make even this further--go further. For example, we 
now know the potential to improve carbon sequestration in 
cropland through conservation, tillage, and other practices.
    Without accurate data, however, it's difficult to make 
significant progress in any greenhouse gas reduction efforts. 
So Federal science agencies are working with academia and 
industry to improve the monitoring, measuring, and verifying of 
the sources and sinks of greenhouse gas emissions. Better 
monitoring and measurement technologies give us the ability to 
implement more efficient and cost-effective practices to reduce 
greenhouse gases and its concentrations.
    I'm encouraged by the work being done today, and I see 
great potential. For instance, the National Institute for 
Standards and Technology, NIST, is using an innovative approach 
through its Greenhouse Gas Measurement Program. While most 
cities estimate greenhouse gas emissions indirectly through 
economic data such as the number of miles that vehicles drive 
within the city, NIST has developed atmospheric observational 
tools to measure emissions directly. By combining the indirect 
and direct observations, scientists can make better estimates 
for emissions and provide more useful information to its 
stakeholders.
    NIST also operates an Urban Greenhouse Gas Measurement 
Testbed System, which develops and evaluates the performance of 
emission measurement capabilities in Indianapolis, the Los 
Angeles Air Basin, and the Northeast Corridor. In order to help 
measure, monitor, and report greenhouse gas emissions in an 
accurate, standardized, and transparent manner, NIST has also 
initiated a documentary standard effort. This work will help 
develop best practices that improve industry's ability to use 
measurement tools and quantification methods to reduce 
greenhouse gases in the environment. Eventually, the hope is 
that we will lead to the development of technical standards to 
improve the data quality of greenhouse gas emission reports.
    NIST also works with other Federal agencies through 
Greenhouse Gas Monitoring and Measurement Interagency Working 
Groups to coordinate existing efforts. The coordination is so 
critical. We can't afford to have agencies duplicating work or, 
worse, providing conflicting information.
    So I'd like to emphasize to our witnesses today how 
important it is that we continue to coordinate research 
activities moving forward to maximize our resources. In 
addition to learning more about the work being done to better 
understand lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions, I hope to learn 
more today about where measurement and data challenges exist 
and where research gaps remain. I look forward to hearing your 
perspectives on that. And I want to thank our witnesses again.
    Madam Chair, thank you for putting this hearing on, and I 
yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Feenstra follows:]

    Thank you, Chairwoman Stevens and Chairwoman Sherrill for 
holding today's hearing. And thank you to our witnesses for 
your participation here today.
    We're here to discuss measurement and monitoring of 
greenhouse gases, which can improve the tools we have available 
to reduce and capture emissions.
    Importantly, we're not just going to discuss emissions, but 
also sinks, or the processes that remove greenhouse gases from 
the atmosphere.
    Once such example is the land use and forestry sector, 
which offset total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by 13% in 
2020.
    This is an important contribution to emissions reductions, 
and federal R&D can help us make it even better.
    For example, we know there's potential to improve carbon 
sequestration in cropland through conservation tillage and 
other practices.
    Without accurate data, however, it's difficult to make 
significant progress in any greenhouse gas reduction efforts.
    So federal science agencies are working with academia and 
industry to improve the monitoring, measuring, and verifying of 
sources and sinks of greenhouse gas emissions.
    Better monitoring and measurement technologies give us the 
ability to implement more efficient and cost-effective 
practices to reduce greenhouse gas concentrations.
    I'm encouraged by the work being done today and I see great 
potential.
    For instance, the National Institute of Standards and 
Technology (NIST) is using an innovative approach through its 
Greenhouse Gas Measurement Program.
    While most cities estimate greenhouse gas emissions 
indirectly through economic data, such as the number of miles 
that vehicles travel within a city, NIST has developed 
atmospheric observational tools to measure emissions directly.
    By combining the indirect and direct observations, 
scientists can make better estimates for emissions and provide 
more useful information to stakeholders.
    NIST also operates an Urban Greenhouse Gas Measurements 
Testbed System, which develops and evaluates the performance of 
emissions measurement capabilities in Indianapolis, the Los 
Angeles Air Basin, and the Northeast Corridor.
    In order to help measure, monitor, and report greenhouse 
gas emissions in an accurate, standardized, and transparent 
manner, NIST has also initiated a documentary standards effort.
    This work will help develop best practices that improve 
industry's ability to use measurement tools and quantification 
methods to reduce greenhouse gases in the environment.
    Eventually, the hope is that they will lead to the 
development of technical standards to improve the data quality 
of greenhouse gas emissions reports.
    NIST also works with other Federal agencies through the 
Greenhouse Gas Monitoring and Measurement Interagency Working 
Group to coordinate existing efforts.
    That coordination is critical. We can't afford to have 
agencies duplicating work or worse--providing conflicting 
information.
    So I'd like to emphasize to our witnesses today how 
important it is that you continue to coordinate research 
activities moving forward to maximize our resources.
    In addition to learning more about the work being done to 
better understand lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions, I hope to 
learn more today about where measurement and data challenges 
exist, and where research gaps remain.
    I look forward to hearing your perspectives on that. I want 
to thank our witnesses again.
    And Madam Chair, I yield back.

    [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Sherrill follows:]

    Good morning, everyone. I am pleased to welcome you, 
alongside Chairwoman Stevens, to today's joint subcommittee 
hearing. And thank you to our witnesses for joining us today to 
provide their expertise on programs at their agencies 
responsible for measuring greenhouse gas emissions and sinks. 
I'm looking forward to your testimonies.
    Greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous 
oxide, and fluorinated gases, trap heat within the Earth's 
atmosphere causing our planet to become warmer. These 
greenhouse gases can be emitted naturally and through human 
activities. The scientific consensus points to the increasing 
emissions of anthropogenic greenhouse gases as the leading 
cause of climate change. We have often talked on this Committee 
how communities across the nation are already experiencing the 
effects of climate change through record rainfall amounts, 
bigger wildfires, longer droughts, and rising sea levels.
    Every day, many Americans take individual action towards 
curbing their excess greenhouse gas emissions. This includes 
but is not limited to, buying electric vehicles, using public 
transportation, and purchasing carbon offsets. Governments at 
all levels are also supporting these efforts through developing 
energy efficiency standards and the rapid deployment of 
renewable energy infrastructure. This shift in our behavior is 
spurring the growth of the economy through the development of 
new markets and the competitiveness of those markets, as well 
as through innovation. Reducing carbon and other greenhouse gas 
emissions will not only create a healthier environment for all 
communities but will also encourage economic growth.
    My home state of New Jersey has set an ambitious but 
achievable goal of 50 percent reduction of the state's 
greenhouse gas emissions by the end of this decade, and an 80 
percent reduction by 2050. New Jersey also releases a 
comprehensive statewide greenhouse gas emissions inventory 
report every two years. This report is consistent with national 
and international standards for inventory practices. Other 
states and local communities publish similar reports to track 
their efforts to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. While 
these efforts are imperative to monitor our greenhouse gas 
emissions, and reductions, the New York Times reported last 
year that cities across the nation are under reporting their 
emissions by nearly 20 percent. Accurate emissions data is 
essential to understanding where our communities currently 
stand and how the mitigation efforts are progressing.
    That is what brings us here today. While we are working to 
curb excess greenhouse gas emissions to reduce the impacts of 
climate change and protect public health, we do not know 
exactly how much we are emitting and if our efforts to reduce 
these emissions are effective. The federal science agencies 
that we are fortunate to hear from today are some of the 
leaders in cutting-edge research to accurately track greenhouse 
gas emissions globally and domestically. To address this 
challenge immediately, we need to understand the current state 
of observation, measurement, and verification processes of the 
sources and sinks of greenhouse gases, and how to improve those 
processes. We also need to address any challenges there may be 
in monitoring or collecting this valuable data.
    Achieving our emissions reduction goals and meeting our 
commitment to the Paris Agreement requires accurate accounting 
of the sources and sinks of greenhouse gas emissions. We cannot 
mitigate what we cannot measure. The U.S. can continue to lead 
the world in advancing research and technology innovation to 
help tackle this global issue.
    I look forward to the witnesses' testimony today on the 
ongoing federal efforts on the measurements of greenhouse gas 
emission data, as well as any recommendations to the Committee 
on how we can address research gaps related to this important 
issue. Thank you again for being here. I yield back.

    [The prepared statement of Mrs. Bice follows:]

    Thank you, Chairwoman Stevens.
    Last week we had a hearing on methane emissions from the 
oil and gas sector. The overall message we heard was that 
monitoring technologies are out there, but federal regulations 
can hinder their widespread deployment.
    Today's hearing is broader than that, as we look at the 
whole suite of greenhouse gases and how they are monitored, 
measured, and verified, no matter where they come from.
    But the overarching message is likely the same: we have the 
ability to improve the most helpful technologies, but we need 
to make sure the path to deployment isn't blocked by burdensome 
federal regulations.
    The United States already has a tremendous story to tell 
when it comes to environmental stewardship and reducing 
greenhouse gas emissions. That is largely due to industry 
taking the lead and acting without being forced to change--or 
outright stop--their productivity.
    We've been the world leader in lowering carbon emissions 
since 2005, reducing more than the next 7 emissions reducing 
countries combined. Methane emissions in our country have also 
decreased by 17% since 1990. And as Mr. Feenstra pointed out, 
our land use and forestry sector continues to be a carbon sink, 
reducing the overall amount of greenhouse gases in the 
atmosphere from all sectors.
    All of this has taken place while the energy and 
agriculture industries increased production and lowered energy 
costs for American households during that time.
    So with in mind, I sincerely hope that today's hearing is 
not an attempt to villainize the energy producers like those in 
Oklahoma, which are producing three times more energy than the 
state consumes.
    What I am hopeful we can talk about today is how our 
federal agencies are collaborating with each other when it 
comes to quantifying and reporting greenhouse gas emissions. 
Because the simple fact of the matter is that if we don't know 
how much or what kind of gas is in the atmosphere, we have no 
hope of preventing its release in the future.
    Make no mistake, this is a whole-of-government approach. 
NASA and NOAA have satellites with global monitoring tools. 
NIST evaluates the performance of measurement and 
quantification technologies. EPA prepares the Inventory of U.S. 
Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Sinks, the premier collection of 
data related to greenhouse gases.
    Each agency has a role to play, but we must ensure that 
federal resources are not being wasted on duplicative efforts.
    With energy prices at record highs, now is not the time for 
virtue-signaling. If there are ways to better monitor and 
quantify greenhouse gases, we don't need to play the blame 
game. We need to understand what is impeding their deployment 
and work to enable their commercialization as soon as possible.
    We must also remember we are talking about a global problem 
in need of global solutions. For every ton of greenhouse gas 
emissions reduced by the United States, China has increased 
their emissions by nearly 4 tons. We can do our part here at 
home, but if monitoring doesn't extend to a global reach, we 
have no hope of real change.
    I want to thank all of our witnesses for taking the time to 
testify today. I look forward to your testimonies and--given 
that you each works for a federal agency--how you are 
collaborating on these efforts. I also hope to hear how each 
agency is incorporating a global outlook when it comes to 
greenhouse gases.
    Thank you Madam Chair and I yield back the balance of my 
time.

    [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Johnson follows:]

    Good morning. Thank you everyone for joining us for this 
joint subcommittee hearing. I especially want to thank Chairs 
Stevens and Sherrill for holding today's hearing. This is an 
important and timely topic.
    Last November, I attended the 26th U.N. Conference of 
Parties, or COP 26, in Glasgow with Speaker Pelosi and many of 
my colleagues. Throughout the conference, we consistently heard 
about the need to keep within 1.5 degrees of warming. This 
Committee has worked tirelessly to pass legislation that 
ensures we develop the tools and technologies to address 
climate change and its worst impacts.
    Ultimately, however, we will need to enact policy to 
regulate greenhouse gas emissions. And for any such policy to 
be successful, we must have high-quality and accurate 
measurements of these emissions. Measurement, reporting, and 
verification will be the backbone of meeting obligations and 
holding parties accountable at the local, national, and 
international level, including under the Paris Climate 
Agreement.
    But ensuring the accuracy of these measurements is a 
difficult challenge. Earlier this month, this Committee had a 
hearing about methane, during which witnesses testified that 
oil and gas companies are failing to measure and mitigate 
methane leaks. A 2021 study showed that many U.S. cities were 
dramatically undercounting their greenhouse gas emissions. 
Failing to accurately measure our emissions will undermine our 
ability to achieve effective climate solutions.
    Fortunately, many of our Federal science agencies are 
working together to address this challenge. Some of our 
agencies, like the EPA, focus on a bottom-up approach, 
analyzing ground-level sources of greenhouse gases. Others, in 
particular NASA and NOAA, collect data top-down through the 
atmosphere. NIST has developed a greenhouse gas measurement 
framework for urban emissions, using both top-down and bottom-
up measurements to calibrate one another.
    In order to reach our goal of trusted measurement 
frameworks, new technologies will be needed to improve the 
accuracy of greenhouse gas measurements while bringing down 
their associated costs. Creating novel measurement capabilities 
will in turn require a workforce with the skills to operate 
them. And finally, we must continue to support and improve 
domestic and international partnerships toward our common goal 
of addressing climate change.
    Today's discussion will rightfully focus on the science and 
technology needs to advance this field. However, we mustn't 
forget the public health impacts of greenhouse gas emissions. 
Communities of color are disproportionately vulnerable to the 
impacts of climate change caused by increased greenhouse gas 
emissions. Improving our ability to accurately measure 
greenhouse gases will in turn improve public health outcomes in 
these communities. The most vulnerable communities must be 
prioritized when improving our greenhouse measurement programs
    I am excited to hear testimony from expert witnesses 
representing each of these agencies about their unique roles 
and activities related to greenhouse gas measurement. I am 
particularly interested to hear if the agencies need any new 
authorities or funding to support their important work.
    Thank you, Chairs Stevens and Sherrill. I yield back the 
balance of my time.

    Chairwoman Stevens. And at this time, I would like to 
introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is Dr. Eric Lin. Dr. 
Lin is the Director of NIST Material Measurement Laboratory, 
MML. MML has more than 900 staff members and visiting 
scientists and serves as the Nation's reference laboratory for 
measurements in the chemical, biological, and materials 
sciences, another best kept secret at NIST. Dr. Lin has also 
served as the Acting Associate Director for Laboratory Programs 
at NIST, during which time he provided direction and 
operational guidance for all of NIST's scientific and technical 
laboratories.
    Our next witness is Dr. Ariel Stein. Dr. Stein is the 
Director of NOAA's (National Oceanic and Atmospheric 
Administration's) Air Resources Laboratory and Acting Director 
of NOAA's Global Monitoring Laboratory. He has extensive 
expertise and experience working with atmospheric transport, 
dispersion, and photochemical models. Prior to his current 
role, Dr. Stein served as a Supervisory Physical Scientist at 
the Air Resources lab.
    Our third witness is Dr. Karen St. Germain. Dr. St. Germain 
is the Division Director of the Earth Science Division in 
NASA's (National Aeronautics and Space Administration's) 
Science Mission Directorate. In this role, she provides 
executive leadership, strategic direction, and overall 
management for the entire agency's Earth science portfolio. 
Prior to coming to NASA, she served as the Deputy Assistant 
Administrator systems for NOAA's Satellite and Information 
Service. She has also previously served in positions at the 
Department of Defense.
    Our third--our final witness is Dr. Bryan Hubbell. Dr. 
Hubbell is the National Program Director for the Air, Climate, 
and Energy (ACE) Research Program in EPA's (Environmental 
Protection Agency's) Office of Research and Development, ORD. 
Dr. Hubbell has worked for EPA for 24 years as an expert on the 
health and environmental impacts of air pollution. He led the 
EPA project team that developed the Environmental Benefits 
Mapping and Analysis Program, which is used around the world to 
estimate the benefits of clean air.
    As our witnesses should know, you'll have 5 minutes for 
your spoken testimony. Your written testimony will be included 
in the record for the hearing. And when you've all completed 
your spoken testimony. We will begin with questions, and each 
Member will have 5 minutes to question the panel. We're going 
to start with Dr. Lin.

                 TESTIMONY OF DR. ERIC K. LIN,

           DIRECTOR, MATERIAL MEASUREMENT LABORATORY,

         NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY

    Dr. Lin. Chairwoman Stevens, Chairwoman Sherrill, Ranking 
Members Feenstra and Bice, and Members of the Subcommittees, 
I'm Dr. Eric Lin, Director of the Material Measurement 
Laboratory at the Department of Commerce's National Institute 
of Standards and Technology, NIST. Thank you for the 
opportunity to appear before you today to discuss NIST's role 
in greenhouse gas measurements. NIST's laboratory programs work 
at the frontiers of measurement science to ensure that the U.S. 
system of measurements is firmly grounded in sound scientific 
and technical principles.
    For this hearing, the NIST Greenhouse Gas Measurements 
Program helps businesses and governments at all levels measure, 
monitor, authenticate, and report greenhouse gas emissions in 
an accurate, transparent, and standardized manner. This 
measurement program will help cities demonstrate that they are 
contributing to the Administration's national greenhouse gas 
emissions reduction targets for the next 20 to 30 years.
    NIST provides a system of observation networks for 
measuring greenhouse gases at the city level and even down to 
the street and block. Our work complements that of our partner 
agencies with their expertise in quantifying greenhouse gases 
on larger scales, our regions and continents.
    To demonstrate the feasibility and validity of NIST's 
granular approach, NIST established the Urban Greenhouse Gas 
Measurements Testbed System. This so-called Urban Dome Project 
provides the measurements and accuracy that businesses and 
governments need for mitigation actions and science-based 
policy decisions. The Urban Dome Project can measure and map 
emissions at any level needed, down to an individual building 
and over a range of time resolutions, from annual variations to 
seasons, weeks, days, and hours.
    NIST operates measurement testbeds in Indianapolis, the Los 
Angeles Air Basin, and the Washington D.C./Baltimore region 
with plans to extend through the Northeast Corridor to Boston. 
These testbeds encompass a range of conditions that represent 
the span of U.S. urban areas. The NIST Urban Dome Project is a 
partnership with members of government, business, academic, and 
nongovernmental organizations. The Urban Dome Project develops 
and provides mature measurements-based scientific tools, 
methods, and data to better estimate greenhouse gas emissions. 
These validated tools will enable the identification of the 
most economically viable emission-reduction opportunities in 
urban areas. Application of these tools before and after the 
deployment of energy efficiency where alternative energy 
solutions can authenticate their effectiveness.
    This toolkit will soon include international documentary 
standards to which NIST provides technical expertise that will 
improve data quality in national greenhouse gas emission 
reports. High-quality data will help the community judge 
progress toward national emissions reduction targets.
    NIST works closely with our Federal partners in the 
Greenhouse Gas Monitoring and Measurement Interagency Working 
Group. Coordination through this group is essential to continue 
to maximize the impact of agency resources; enhance the 
Nation's ability to measure, quantify, and monitor greenhouse 
gas emissions and removals; and accelerate the transition of 
relevant research to operational use.
    Interagency and additional collaborations can enhance our 
understanding of greenhouse gas emissions by linking surface 
emission measurements to satellite and airborne observations 
for even more robust domestic measurement and monitoring 
capabilities; modeling fossil fuel and biogenic emissions and 
uptake to better understand the effects of vegetation, 
wetlands, and similar urban features on emissions measurements; 
developing measurements and models to relate atmospheric 
greenhouse gas concentrations to emissions.
    For more than a century, NIST has conducted measurement 
science that is impartial, accurate, and consistent so that 
decisions in the business and policy realms are made on sound 
scientific footing. NIST helps to provide the measurements and 
data that the United States and other nations need as they 
monitor and choose ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
    We greatly appreciate the Members of these Committees and 
others in Congress for their support of Federal research and 
services that support greenhouse gas mitigation efforts, and 
I'll be pleased to answer any questions that you have. Thank 
you.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Lin follows:]
    
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    Chairwoman Stevens. And now, we'll move to Dr. Stein.

                 TESTIMONY OF DR. ARIEL STEIN,

         ACTING DIRECTOR, GLOBAL MONITORING LABORATORY

            AND DIRECTOR, AIR RESOURCES LABORATORY,

        NATIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION

    Dr. Stein. Chairs and Ranking Members and Members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today 
regarding Federal programs focused on monitoring, measuring, 
and verifying sources and sinks of greenhouse gases. NOAA's 
mission is to understand and predict changes in climate, 
weather, the oceans, and coasts. To achieve this, we must 
continuously monitor and detect changes as they occur. The 
primary focus of my work is to monitor and detect changes in 
the atmosphere that impact climate. This is something NOAA has 
a long history of doing. With CO2 measurement dating 
back to 1958, NOAA's Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii is the 
global benchmark location for monitoring atmospheric 
composition and was key in determining the connection between 
rising atmospheric CO2 levels and climate change.
    Building off this historic accomplishment, NOAA's long-
term, continuous atmospheric observations serve as a baseline 
and record which can be used to monitor natural and 
anthropogenic emissions and greenhouse gases, as well as their 
uptake by the natural land and ocean-based processes and the 
effectiveness of efforts to reduce climate change through 
greenhouse gas mitigation.
    The Mauna Loa Observatory continues today as a cornerstone 
of NOAA's Global Greenhouse Gas Reference Network. This network 
has grown to a global scale, with more than 70 sites around the 
world measuring over 60 gases. These high-quality data serve as 
the backbone of NOAA's climate mission by providing vital 
environmental intelligence for monitoring the steadily changing 
composition of Earth's atmosphere and understanding global 
weather and climate.
    NOAA uses this foundational climate information to develop 
products and tools to help inform decisionmaking. NOAA's 
greenhouse gas data feed models to predict long-term changes in 
climate that have the potential to impact long-term planning 
needed for industries like shipping, fishing, forest 
management, agriculture, construction, finance, and water 
resources. For instance, NOAA has developed a system based on 
measurements and models to detect long-term changes in sources 
and sinks at the global, national, and regional levels.
    NOAA is also working to better understand changes in 
greenhouse gas emissions and air quality in our Nation's cities 
in partnership with other agencies. In particular, NOAA 
conducted research on how greenhouse gas emissions coming from 
urban environments may not have changed much during the 
lockdown period of COVID-19, while significant changes were 
simultaneously observed in air quality.
    NOAA has also conducted research with the oil and gas 
industry to pinpoint fugitive emissions to realize efficiencies 
while ensuring the safety of these sites and preventing the 
loss of valuable fuel that could be captured and sold.
    These are just a few examples of NOAA's boots-on-the-ground 
approach to providing climate services. Just as with our other 
climate services, by connecting with communities and leverage 
our Greenhouse Gas Network, NOAA helps local decisionmakers 
strengthen our resilience and adaptation to climate change, 
which will help protect lives, lifestyles, and livelihoods.
    NOAA's work on understanding sources and changing 
greenhouse gas emissions and sinks requires cooperation with 
numerous agencies. Each agency represented here today brings to 
the table core capabilities that complement each other and will 
help us advance this field.
    NOAA is also looking toward expanding the Greenhouse 
Observational Network by using new technologies to allow the 
detection of greenhouse gases at higher temporal and spatial 
resolutions. For example, NOAA is working with the airline 
industry to help expand our agency observing network by putting 
instruments on commercial aircrafts to acquire data as planes 
ascend and descend. Much like how the National Weather Service 
already partners with commercial airlines to gather 
meteorological data, these new capabilities have the potential 
to provide orders of magnitude more observation of the 
atmosphere in climate-sensitive regions like the Arctic and the 
tropics, as well as high-emitting regions surrounding many 
metropolitan airports. These data may allow NOAA to detect 
greenhouse gases changes at finer resolutions, which will 
improve the climate information available to decisionmakers at 
the regional and local scales.
    Thank you, and I look forward for your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Stein follows:]
    
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    Chairwoman Stevens. Great. And now, we'll hear from Dr. St. 
Germain.

             TESTIMONY OF DR. KAREN M. ST. GERMAIN,

                EARTH SCIENCE DIVISION DIRECTOR,

                  SCIENCE MISSION DIRECTORATE,

         NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION

    Dr. St. Germain. Chairwoman Stevens, Ranking Member 
Feenstra, Chairwoman Sherrill, and Ranking Member Bice, and 
Members of the Subcommittee and Committee, I'm Dr. Karen St. 
Germain, Director of NASA's Earth Science Division, and I'm 
very pleased to appear before you to share NASA's role in 
measuring, monitoring, and understanding the role of greenhouse 
gases in our warming climate.
    NASA's mission is to provide the observations and 
foundational science that underpin our understanding of the 
Earth as a system. We're working to bring cutting-edge space-
based and airborne instruments and observations, advanced 
modeling, new technologies, and analytic techniques to deliver 
world-class scientific understanding of the Earth system. In 
doing so, we support the broad range of efforts across the 
agencies you see here and many others in the Federal Government 
and beyond. We're committed to open science and collaborating 
with our colleagues here to offer policymakers and Americans 
actionable information in support of their efforts to mitigate 
greenhouse gases and respond to the wide-ranging--the wide 
range of impacts of the climate change.
    We're moving out today to build the Earth System 
Observatory that will consist of five major missions augmented 
by several competed missions. The Earth System Observatory will 
give us an even better overall understanding of the Earth 
system and the interplay between greenhouse gases and the 
carbon and water cycles.
    Today, our instruments that measure greenhouse gases 
include OCO-2, the Orbiting Carbon Observatory, and OCO-3, its 
sibling on the International Space Station. NASA airborne 
campaigns obtain high-resolution temporal and spatial 
measurements of complex local processes, which give us an even 
clearer understanding of what our global satellite observations 
are telling us. For example, the MOOSE (Michigan-Ontario Ozone 
Source Experiment) campaign in Michigan lets us better 
understand why we're seeing elevated ozone levels in the--at 
the Michigan-Ontario border region, while other campaigns have 
been critical in documenting methane super sources.
    NASA continues to advance technology for new space-based 
and airborne measurement capabilities, and in developing these 
tools, NASA strives to make these technologies reliable, 
affordable, and deployable. And when there's opportunity, we 
transition these technologies to the private sector, as is the 
case with NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory partnership with 
Carbon Mapper Inc. Our technology efforts will enable better 
measurements of carbon dioxide and methane fluxes and trends in 
varying conditions.
    The Carbon Monitoring System, or CMS, has allowed us to 
combine observations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere with 
other types of measurements to give us a better understanding 
of the Earth system processes such as the carbon cycle. CMS 
projects have provided insight into the role of forest and 
cropland in greenhouse gas fluxes, including whether certain 
lands under agricultural use are carbon sinks, sources, or both 
under varying conditions. For example, Midwestern cornfields 
are carbon sinks during most years, while during years of water 
stress, they release carbon, even as Oklahoma winter wheat 
might show no notable change under similar environmental 
conditions.
    CMS-funded scientists built a new series of maps detailing 
the global geography of methane emissions from coal, oil, gas, 
and other sources. Using publicly available data reported, the 
research team plotted fuel exploitation emissions that arise 
before the fuels are ever consumed.
    NASA's greenhouse gas research and its applications depend 
also on partners and their assets from NOAA's Suomi-NPP 
(National Polar-orbiting Partnership) to the European TROPOMI 
(TROPOspheric Monitoring Instrument) and the Japanese GOSAT 
(Greenhouse Gases Observing Satellite), and we work with 
partners at NOAA, EPA, and NIST to assimilate many sources of 
data to help understand the nature of greenhouse gas emissions.
    NASA is working with other agencies through the new 
Greenhouse Gas Monitoring and Measurement Interagency Working 
Group to maximize the impact of agency resources, enhance the 
Nation's ability to measure and monitor emissions and removals, 
and accelerate the transition of relevant research capabilities 
to operational use. And we at NASA are building on these 
efforts toward an Earth Information Center with an initial 
focus on prototyping capabilities for greenhouse gas monitoring 
information that will integrate the data from these variety of 
sources with the goal of making that data more accessible and 
usable to Federal, State, local, and tribal governments, as 
well as researchers, the public, and other users.
    NASA's $2.4 billion request for Earth science in the ' 23 
President's budget will allow us to continue to make this 
strong progress in observing and understanding the Earth as a 
system, including greenhouse gas emissions and, just as 
importantly, understand how the widely varying impacts of the 
changing climate are affecting our communities from the coasts 
to the heartland.
    NASA stands ready to work with our Federal, State, tribal, 
local, and commercial partners to address the challenges posed 
by greenhouse gases and their effects. And I want to thank this 
Committee and Congress for its support of Earth science and the 
entire Federal Government's efforts to tackle the challenges 
we're discussing today. And I welcome your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. St. Germain follows:]
    
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    Chairwoman Stevens. Fabulous. And with that, we'll hear 
from Dr. Hubbell.

                TESTIMONY OF DR. BRYAN HUBBELL,

                   NATIONAL PROGRAM DIRECTOR

                 FOR AIR, CLIMATE, AND ENERGY,

              OFFICE OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT,

         UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

    Dr. Hubbell. Good morning, Chairman--Chairwoman Stevens and 
Sherrill and Ranking Members Feenstra and Bice. My name is Dr. 
Bryan Hubbell. I'm the National Program Director for the Air, 
Climate, and Energy Research Program in U.S. EPA's Office of 
Research and Development, known as ORD. I have 24 years of 
experience at EPA applying, conducting, and leading research on 
the health and environmental effects of air pollution and 
climate change. A key element of the ACE program is development 
and application of methods for measuring air pollutants and 
greenhouse gases. I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you 
today about ORD's important work to advance greenhouse gas 
measurement.
    Accurately quantifying greenhouse gas emissions is an 
important part of EPA's work. Greenhouse gas data are used in a 
variety of ways to inform decisions that help protect the 
health of our Nation. Accurate and comprehensive source-based 
greenhouse gas emissions data provide the foundation of EPA's 
emission reduction programs and allow EPA and others, including 
Congress, to evaluate the effectiveness of those programs. 
Emissions data are also used by States and communities to 
understand their emissions and develop mitigation strategies 
for their particular needs.
    EPA's Office of Air and Radiation also uses source-based 
emission measurements and modeling for the U.S. greenhouse gas 
inventory. While ORD does not make policy decisions, we work 
hard to ensure that EPA program offices, other Federal 
agencies, States, tribes and communities have the highest 
possible data quality so they can make well-informed decisions 
with competence.
    ORD's research is currently focused on source-based 
measurements of methane and other non-CO2 gases. 
This work is critical to informing both national and 
international greenhouse gas inventories, and it supports 
regulatory and voluntary emissions reduction programs. It also 
contributes to EPA's broader efforts to close the gap between 
source-based, bottom-up inventories and top-down emission 
estimates. Our work in this area includes exploring ways to 
more accurately quantify methane emissions from oil and gas 
operations, improving mobile ground-based remote-sensing 
technologies to measure methane concentrations at facility 
fence lines, and evaluating methane emissions from municipal 
solid waste landfills.
    In addition to this in-house research, ORD is also 
developing a request for applications through our Research 
Grant Program to study methane emissions from landfills. We're 
planning to award $1 million in research grants under this 
request, which we anticipate releasing by the end of the year.
    While methane emissions from landfills and oil and gas 
facilities is a focus, our researchers are also looking at 
other greenhouse gas emission sources. For example, our 
research has significantly improved the understanding of 
greenhouse gas emissions from freshwater reservoirs, lakes, 
rivers, and other water bodies, which can be sources of 
methane, CO2, and nitrous oxide. Accurate 
measurements of these emissions are crucial to understanding 
the big picture of greenhouse gas emissions. New techniques 
developed by ORD researchers have already improved national and 
international greenhouse gas methodologies and inventories.
    And finally, we plan to evaluate how aquatic systems such 
as watersheds and wetlands can remove and store CO2 
from the atmosphere. And we plan to research the role of blue 
carbon and how protecting coastal estuaries can benefit local 
communities, while also reducing atmospheric CO2.
    Monitoring and measuring all sources and sinks of 
greenhouse gases requires the combined expertise of multiple 
Federal agencies. EPA partners and coordinates with NOAA, NIST, 
NASA, DOE (Department of Energy), and USDA (United States 
Department of Agriculture) at multiple levels to ensure we're 
using the best available data and measurement technologies and 
practices. This includes engagement through the U.S. Global 
Change Research Program and the Greenhouse Gas Monitoring and 
Measurement Interagency Working Group, and also on other 
research efforts. For example, ORD is collaborating with NIST, 
NOAA, the California Air Resources Board, and others to combine 
airborne, satellite, and ground-based measurements for landfill 
greenhouse gas emissions assessments.
    While EPA and other Federal agencies have made great 
strides in greenhouse gas measurement, there are gaps in 
knowledge that we are working to address. This work includes 
resolving uncertainties in various airborne and satellite 
systems, establishing approaches that capture information about 
source locations and operational status, and identifying 
locations and events that can account for disproportionate 
amounts of greenhouse gas emissions. Even though my office does 
not directly make decisions regarding greenhouse gases, I'm 
proud of the research we do that helps ensure that our EPA 
program partners, other Federal agencies, States, tribes, and 
communities have the data and information they need to make 
decisions to protect health and the environment. We look 
forward to continuing this research and to addressing key 
research needs the future.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you 
today, and I'm happy to take any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Hubbell follows:]
    
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    Chairwoman Stevens. Well, thank you so much.
    And at this point, we're going to begin our first round of 
questions, and the Chair is going to recognize herself for 5 
minutes.
    So you all have spoken today about the fantastic work your 
agencies are doing and the interagency partnerships that are 
going to enable the success of much of the work at hand. Given 
all this collaboration, I wanted to dive a little deeper on the 
idea of integrated greenhouse gas observing system. So what is 
the ultimate vision of an integrated greenhouse gas observing 
system, and what do we need to do to achieve such a system? And 
anyone of you can start with that. Dr. St. Germain?
    Dr. St. Germain. Certainly, thank you for the question. 
So--and I think that all of the members of the panel may have 
something to contribute to this one.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Yes.
    Dr. St. Germain. I think it's really about doing the data 
assimilation. There are two elements, right, bringing together 
the data and the models that we that we have and the strengths 
of those from each of the agencies, but then also creating the 
interface that makes that easy to access, so, you know, 
unleashing the power of that science by making it easy to 
access and understand by users at all levels to inform the 
decisions they have before them.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Yes, Dr. Stein?
    Dr. Stein. An integrated system will require going from 
global measurements and models all the way to the local realm. 
I would envision the idea of using satellite, in situ, tower, 
airborne platforms, along with the integration of models 
together. We also need vertical profiles of the atmosphere in 
order to understand the three-dimensionality of that, and going 
again from the global to the local and also taking into account 
the sectors that we are going to study. Each sector is going to 
require a different solution. The stacks or industrial sectors 
do not have the same--do not--are not looking for the same 
solutions as the urban areas. The forest problem or the uptake 
from forests requires a different set of tools. So all of the--
that integral way of responding to this problem is key for 
tackling it.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Yes. And, Dr. Lin, as we answer this 
question, just for the folks who are watching back at home, and 
given the division of NIST that you oversee, could you just 
give some examples of the units of measurement that we're 
talking about?
    Dr. Lin. Well, probably the most important one is the 
concentration level. So of all the greenhouse gases, you need a 
concentration, so you need a composition measurement of the 
quantity of any gas within a given environment. That would be 
one. Another one would be basically all of the quantities that 
are used to connect to those concentration levels, so those 
would be like spectroscopic measurements where you need to know 
wavelengths and those types of units. But I'd say concentration 
is probably the most important.
    Chairwoman Stevens. And those are global measurements? It's 
a universal unit of measurement----
    Dr. Lin. Yes, yes.
    Chairwoman Stevens [continuing]. Not subject to the pain of 
the imperial system----
    Dr. Lin. No, it's part of the system, international system 
of measurements, the SI system. The relevant one here is really 
the mole and the gram, so it's a measure of quantities. And we 
say concentration is a quantity per unit volume, which is 
related to mass. So these are all very universal and tied to 
the SI system. And we work very closely with our partners to 
take these fundamentals of something as straightforward as 
concentration and mass and we have to connect it to 
concentration in the reference materials that are done in 
partnership with NOAA as the official reference materials, 
primary laboratory for the international system.
    Chairwoman Stevens. And so, Dr. Hubbell, how does this 
system of--enable us to meet the goal to reduce greenhouse gas 
emissions? This is the Integrated Greenhouse Gas Observing 
System.
    Dr. Hubbell. Right. So I just want to point out that in 
addition to these kind of global measurements, it's really also 
important to get very local to be able to inform mitigation. So 
the ground-based measurements that we typically are engaged 
with are looking at things like emission rates and looking at 
emissions coming from specific parts of the production process. 
So it's really important to--as we're thinking about global 
measurements of concentrations, to also remember that we need 
to get a good understanding of emissions from individual 
sources and parts of sources so that we can create mitigation 
strategies. That's a critical part as we're moving forward with 
thinking about these integrated systems.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Yes. Great. Well, I know Dr. St. 
Germain mentioned that in her testimony, and we're very proud 
in Michigan of our border relationship with Canada and the 
great work that we do, and this is another phenomenal example.
    So I'm just slightly over time. I'm going to yield back. 
I'm going to recognize my hardworking colleague, Mr. Feenstra, 
for 5 minutes of questions. Thank you.
    Mr. Feenstra. Well, thank you so much, Chairwoman. And I 
want to thank each of you for your testimony. It was very 
impressive and good information.
    Dr. Lin, as you know very well, NIST's expertise lies in 
standards, and NIST has initiated the development of technical 
standards to help support accurate greenhouse gas emission 
measurements. Could you provide us with an update where NIST is 
in the process and how NIST is working with the industry to 
develop these standards?
    Dr. Lin. Thank you very much for the question. So for us at 
NIST, as you know, we work in standards as a voluntary, 
consensus-based system, and so we really look for forums to 
where we can gather industry and other stakeholders in order to 
develop the standards that are needed. So NIST is currently 
very active in the international standards arena of really 
trying to provide technical expertise and focused on the 
technical standards that'll enable transparency and consistency 
across all the measurements that are needed to track emissions 
and sinks.
    Currently, we are working in the technical groups and the 
International Organization of Standardization, ISO, and also 
within the American National Standards Institute, ANSI, and 
with a subcommittee that is focused on these greenhouse gases 
and related activities. It's very active, and a lot of progress 
is being made.
    Mr. Feenstra. That's exciting to hear. Are you going to get 
consensus? I mean, this is a global thing. I mean, do you see 
some consensus happening in the next 2 years?
    Dr. Lin. On the technical front I think we are making 
progress, and since it's a technical foundation and focus for 
the areas of work we're concentrating currently, then it's a 
yes, I believe that's certainly----
    Mr. Feenstra. Well, that's great to hear.
    Dr. Hubbell, a study conducted by Argonne National 
Laboratories revealed that the use of corn ethanol reduces 
greenhouse gases, very important to me. I am No. 1 in the 
country in ethanol production. From 2005 to 2019, corn ethanol 
production nearly quadrupled in the United States. During that 
same time, scientists found a 23 percent reduction in ethanol's 
greenhouse gas emission intensity. EPA's greenhouse gas 
reporting program collects greenhouse gas emission data from 
individual facilities and suppliers of certain fuels and gases.
    So the question is this, it sort of begs the question, is 
corn ethanol one of those things that can help us and at what 
level of engagement can we see from this sector? I mean, is 
this something that we should promote and that's positive?
    Dr. Hubbell. So I can only really speak to the research 
that we're doing, which has been focused on the oil and gas 
industry and on landfills. I think that this question of 
emissions from ethanol is a very important one, and we have 
folks within our Office of Air and Radiation who can probably 
speak better to the question of how that feeds into greenhouse 
gas inventories and the role that they play. So if--I'm happy 
to take that back to our colleagues in the Office of Air and 
Radiation if you'd like.
    Mr. Feenstra. Yes, to me, it's really interesting. And for 
me, it's about the regulatory environment with the EPA and when 
it comes to agriculture and ethanol and where that's going.
    With that, I've got another question for Dr. Lin. You know, 
our farmers in Iowa, we can all say that carbon in the soil is 
a great thing because it because it can increase crop yields. 
That's a fact. And in fact, land absorbs approximately 26 
percent of the total emissions humans put into the atmosphere 
each year, so this is really big. But when it comes to 
specifics, exactly where sinkholes are located, how they work, 
and how long they will continue to absorb carbon dioxide, 
there's a lot of uncertainty.
    So my question is, how do we increase the knowledge related 
to greenhouse gas sinks and their single area of research and 
whether there's--you know, what type of data collection and 
modeling and verification can we do that can be beneficial? 
Again, I come from an agricultural State, and this is sort of a 
big deal.
    Dr. Lin. Certainly, those are worthy of research, as we've 
heard from my colleagues, and we work in partnership for that. 
And basically in the scientific enterprise is really focusing 
attention and resources to do the best possible way to both 
understand and to quantify the effects that you named. So I 
think it really takes a whole system approach of many different 
types of measurements and modeling, especially modeling 
approaches to really get at the detailed answer that we need to 
be able to answer that question.
    Mr. Feenstra. Yes. So my time is running out, but, Dr. Lin, 
would you agree that farming, agriculture promotes the 
reduction of carbon in the atmosphere?
    Dr. Lin. That's not my area of expertise, but I would say 
that can be monitored and measured and quantified.
    Mr. Feenstra. OK. Thank you. Thank you for that. And I 
yield back. Thank you very much.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Great. And with that, we're going to 
hear from Mr. Tonko for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Tonko. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I thank you and 
Chair Sherrill and Ranking Members Feenstra and Bice for 
holding today's hearing and to the witnesses for being here 
today.
    The concentration of greenhouse gases in our atmosphere due 
to human activities hits record levels every year. Without 
major cuts to emissions, the driving force of the climate 
crisis, humanity and our environment will continue to endure 
the consequences of an increasingly warming planet.
    The work that all of you are doing at your respective 
agencies is indeed critical to ensuring that we have the 
scientific and technical data. These data are then utilized to 
improve our understanding of greenhouse gas emissions, their 
sources, and indeed their solutions. I believe our first 
priority in climate action is to mitigate our emissions in 
every possible way.
    So, Dr. Hubbell, how does ORD's research on greenhouse gas 
emissions measurement support innovation?
    Dr. Hubbell. So we work very closely with industry 
partners, as well as with other agencies and with States to be 
able to identify the best new technologies that can help us to 
be able to characterize emissions, especially from leaks that 
are coming from oil and gas operations and in landfills. And we 
do this in a number of ways. We have cooperative research and 
development agreements that we enter into with industrial 
partners. We've worked with close to 20 industrial partners 
over the last number of years to be able to develop and test 
these technologies. And these cooperative research and 
development agreements allow us to more easily share data and 
expertise, including proprietary information, so that we can 
get the best technologies developed.
    We also have our Small Business Innovation Research program 
that allows us to fund developers of innovative instruments to 
be able to address the emissions from these important sources. 
And we also have a prize challenge program that we work on with 
other agencies to encourage innovation by putting out a problem 
and then asking for creative solutions that we then are able to 
promote and support. So we have a number of different ways we 
work on innovation, but it's always in a partnership, and 
that's a really key part of the work we're doing on emissions 
measurement.
    Mr. Tonko. Thank you. I appreciate that. And you stated in 
your testimony that you have helped improve greenhouse gas 
inventories. Can you share some examples, please?
    Dr. Hubbell. Sure. So one of the other areas that we work 
on in addition to landfills and oil and gas is we identified 
there was an opportunity to better characterize the emissions 
coming from reservoirs, as well as other freshwater bodies like 
lakes and rivers. And there was a recognition that these water 
bodies can be a significant source of CO2, methane, 
and nitrous oxide and that it'd be very valuable to be able to 
characterize these sources so that we got a better overall 
picture of the national greenhouse gas inventory.
    So our scientists have worked with others in the Federal 
Government, including USGS (United States Geological Survey), 
to be able to characterize these emissions, especially for 
methane. That information has already been included in national 
and international greenhouse gas inventories. It's been 
recognized by the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate 
Change) and as useful to other nations, as well as the United 
States. In addition, the work has got some very specific 
benefits to operators of these managed aquatic systems, as 
they're looking for ways to address multiple objectives like 
managing water flows, as well as trying to reduce emissions. So 
this has been very important research that we've conducted 
recently.
    Mr. Tonko. Thank you. And would you cite additional 
opportunities within your agency for collaborations with the 
private sector, with research institutions, and other 
stakeholders to address both community-level and broader 
measurement concerns?
    Dr. Hubbell. Yes, we are always looking for opportunities 
for additional collaborations with industry partners. We do 
also have a Science to Achieve Results grant program that 
provides funding to academic institutions. And in fact, we 
are--as I mentioned in my testimony, we are issuing a request 
for applications this year, hopefully, to be able to address 
landfill emissions, and we hope to be able to fund about $1 
million in grants to help address this important sector.
    Mr. Tonko. Great. Are there any--are other members on the 
panel wishing to comment on that given set of opportunities 
that you see for your agency? Dr. Stein?
    Dr. Stein. In terms of interacting with the private sector?
    Mr. Tonko. Private sector or institutions for research----
    Dr. Stein. Yes, in terms of the private sector, as I 
mentioned in my testimony, we are closely working with the 
airline industry to include measurements of greenhouse gases in 
their airplanes and basically to detect changes in the 
vertical, which is key to link the satellite images with 
concentrations so we can utilize that in a unified system that 
can provide information to the stakeholders.
    Mr. Tonko. Thank you. Anyone?
    Dr. St. Germain. And I'll just add that we are working with 
the private sector to transition our technologies, our 
observation technologies to them so that they can play a role 
and we can move on to the next, more difficult science 
questions, as well as interacting with industries like 
agriculture so that they can understand both how their crops 
are serving as sources and sinks of greenhouse gases, but also 
how their crops may be impacted by the climate change and how 
that may drive changes in how they interact in the carbon 
cycle.
    Mr. Tonko. Wonderful. Thank you. Well, I've used up my time 
and more, and so I appreciate the patience of the Chair. And 
with that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Stevens. All good stuff. And if there are 
Members who wish to submit additional opening statements, your 
statements will be added the record either at this point or 
from the time when we concluded opening statements.
    I'd also right now like to recognize Dr. Baird for 5 
minutes of questioning. Thank you.
    Mr. Baird. Well, thank you, Ranking Member Stevens and--or 
Feenstra, and, Madam Chair Stevens, I appreciate you 
coordinating this Committee. And I always appreciate the 
witnesses sharing their expertise about these subject matters.
    And so with that, Dr. Hubbell, I'm interested that--and 
from the fact that in my district, Purdue University has the 
Climate Change Research Center, which is focused on the 
interdisciplinary aspects of climate change. My question is, so 
how does each agency translate monitoring and the numbers to 
people on the ground? For example, agricultural communities 
seem particularly capable of immediate actions that slow 
climate change and enable them to benefit economically. So how 
is greenhouse gas data like that coming from NASA and NOAA 
satellites being translated to the actionable farming community 
and farming practices?
    Dr. Hubbell. So I'll certainly let my colleagues at NASA 
and NOAA speak to translate their satellite and other 
information. We do work to try to provide information in usable 
formats for different types of decisions, and one of the things 
that we've been working on in ORD is trying to, for example, 
develop more opportunities for community-engaged research where 
we work with the communities directly to understand 
measurements and be able to interpret them for supporting their 
decisions. And, you know, we are hoping that the work we're 
doing to reduce the cost and increase the ease of use of 
different measurement technologies will allow communities like 
the ones in your State to be able to better understand the 
measurements they're seeing and use that information to support 
their decisionmaking. So we are working to try to not just 
reduce the cost and improve the accuracy of measurement 
technologies, but also to make them easier to use and for us to 
make it easier to share information that's collected by those 
technologies.
    Mr. Baird. You know, along in that same vein, it just 
occurred to me about, you know, we're collecting a lot of data 
on the farms with our machinery and our equipment. Is there--or 
do you have access to that kind of information or do you get 
feedback from the agricultural community and the monitoring 
that they do?
    Dr. Hubbell. So as I've mentioned, we're not doing any 
current research with the agricultural community looking at 
measurements with the ground-based measurements. Certainly, you 
know, EPA has worked with USDA and others to be able to think 
about ways we can address emissions from the agriculture 
sector, but for right now, we're not doing any current research 
in that area.
    Mr. Baird. Thank you. Dr. Lin, do you have any additional 
concerns that you might share with us regarding this question?
    Dr. Lin. I think that we have models of which we are 
testing with the Urban Dome testbed is an approach that is 
looking at how to integrate multiple sources of information 
into a whole so we can get holistically a lot more accurate 
picture of that. That idea certainly could be extended into 
rural areas and as a conceptual idea, and so I think any 
information certainly is useful to obtain.
    Mr. Tonko [presiding]. And, Dr. St. Germain, I think that 
earlier they referenced NASA in regard to Dr. Baird's question, 
so perhaps you want to comment there?
    Dr. St. Germain. Yes, absolutely. We have a lot of work 
going on with the agriculture sector in terms of exchange of 
information and understanding. And there are three, I'll say, 
principal mechanisms by which that happens. One is through 
other agencies like USDA or Department of Interior that--where 
we integrate our information into data products and tools that 
are already accessible to these communities so they don't have 
to learn another one.
    In cases where we can make tools, information, insight 
available to them where such a tool doesn't exist through 
another agency, we do direct applications. We build 
applications, generally making them openly available, web-
based, and that sort of thing.
    And the third--and this is a recent thrust area is working 
directly with the agriculture sector. That is everything from 
the direct--the farmers themselves to agribusiness, to actually 
learn more about what data they have on the ground that may be 
useful to us to improve our models and capabilities, and 
likewise, how they need information delivered to them. And I 
just spent a week this summer or earlier this spring at the 
Commodity Classic meeting with the major commodities groups to 
really figure out how to tighten up that coupling. Thanks.
    Mr. Baird. Great. We really appreciate you doing that. So, 
Dr. Stein, we only got about 30 seconds. Do you have any----
    Dr. Stein. Yes, I can give you a couple of examples of what 
NOAA is doing in terms of actionable data for agriculture. We 
run the National Integrated Drought Information System, and in 
climate.gov you can have that information readily available. 
And also we have our Geostationary Operational Environmental 
Satellite Series that are providing operational and long-term 
measurements of changes in land use that can be very useful for 
the agricultural sector.
    Mr. Baird. Thank you very much, and I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania, 
Representative Conor Lamb. You're recognized for 5 minutes, 
please.
    Mr. Lamb. Thank you, Mr. Chair. My first question is for 
Dr. Lin.
    You know, Dr. Lin, in western Pennsylvania, there's a fair 
amount of natural gas drilling taking place and has been for a 
long time. And what you hear from some of these companies is 
that they are basically being rewarded by their own investors 
and stakeholders for continuing to try to reduce methane 
emissions below 1 percent if possible. And, you know, that is 
also their strongest argument for being a progressive 
alternative to coal in terms of, you know, our progress toward 
climate change. But both of those claims rest on accurate 
measurement of what their methane emissions actually are all 
throughout their system.
    And so my question for you is about your level of 
confidence in what drilling operators are using to sense and 
detect and report their own methane emissions, as far as the 
reliability of the equipment, the accuracy, whether they're 
measuring everywhere that they should be measured, whether the 
standards for this equipment are what they need to be, or, you 
know, sort of how far we have to go in terms of making sure 
that the measurement being used onsite from the wellhead all 
the way to the end user is as accurate as it should be.
    Dr. Lin. Thank you very much for the question. Certainly, 
those are very important questions for the reasons that you 
stated and also for us as a measurement institute for the 
interest of making sure the data is consistent, transparent, 
and accurate. At this point, as I understand it is that the 
industry is using a range of technologies to do these 
measurements and reporting them, and new technologies are being 
developed every day. So, I think this is an area where a 
standard [inaudible] based on the best [inaudible] would be 
appropriate. I'm not exactly sure how that is related to this 
specific industry at this point but that is an area where I, 
where we could look into.
    Mr. Lamb. It looks like the hearing room froze on us. I'm 
not sure what it looks like in there.
    Staff. Yes, it looks like it has. Mr. Lamb, I am checking 
with folks right now, and I'll check in the room as well.
    Mr. Lamb. Oh, it looks like he's back if you could just 
unmute the hearing room. It looks like Dr. Lin is back. You're 
still muted, Dr. Lin, so just hold on a second.
    Staff. Yes, they probably don't hear. I'll let them know. 
It looks like we have audio back in the room. We're just 
waiting for the video to return.
    Staff. Hearing room audio test, test.
    Staff. We've got that coming through.
    Staff. Larry, I can hear you.
    Staff. Yes, and I can hear you.
    Staff. Testing 1, 2, 3 audio in the hearing room, test.
    Staff. Yes, I'm hearing. Can you hear me?
    Staff. I can hear you, Larry.
    Staff. OK, great. We've got audio. We just got to get the 
video back in the room. Thank you.
    Staff. OK.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Mr. LaTurner, can you hear us? OK. 
Can--well, what about Dr. Hubbell?
    Staff. Mr. LaTurner is not connected.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Oh, good, but Dr. Hubbell can hear us?
    Dr. Hubbell. Yes, I can hear you.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Oh, good. Well, so this--I mean----
    Staff. Yes, we've got----
    Chairwoman Stevens [continuing]. Well, we'll----
    Staff [continuing]. Audio back, ma'am. We're just waiting 
for the recording studio to return the video picture back, and 
then we can start back up.
    Chairwoman Stevens. OK, thanks. We're going to get the 
video started and we'll get started. Thanks.
    Staff. Yes, and there's the video, so we can start back up. 
We were still with Mr. Lamb.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Congressman Lamb, we're going to 
recognize you for another several minutes of questioning. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Lamb. All right. Yes, we don't need too much more. I 
just--I'm going to restate it because we didn't get a whole lot 
of Dr. Lin's answer.
    But my basic question is that it's increasingly important 
that drillers and natural gas distributors and everyone who's 
responsible for that whole kind of ecosystem are able to report 
accurate results as to their methane emissions. It's very 
important for their own investors. Obviously, it's important 
for any future scheme in which we are trying to either pay for 
or tax, you know, carbon emissions or savings.
    So my question is really a technical one about your level 
of confidence in the quality of the sensors and equipment that 
they're using right now and whether new standards and rules are 
needed in order to make sure that what they're using actually 
provides us with accurate information.
    Dr. Lin. So for our point of view at NIST as a measurement 
institute, the problem you described is a very real one. And we 
would go more toward the voluntary standards arena for where 
the stakeholders within the problem space you described could 
get together to to really tackle exactly what are the standards 
measurements for the technologies and how to report them. Since 
there's a range of technologies, each one has its strengths and 
weaknesses. I'm not really in a position to comment on any of 
those. Perhaps my colleagues who also have equities in this 
space could have more to add.
    Mr. Lamb. Yes, I thought Dr. Hubbell potentially, I mean, I 
believe it's the EPA that has actually published some of the 
data showing the way that methane emissions are underreported 
and have been for some time. So I don't know if you had 
anything to add to that as far as just kind of weighing in on 
the quality of the equipment that we're talking about. You 
know, sometimes we talked about just are they monitoring it at 
all? Are they monitoring it in the right places? But even--I 
guess my question is even where they are monitoring methane 
emissions, are we using equipment and sensors to do so that are 
up to the proper standard?
    Dr. Hubbell. So just as Dr. Lin said, I think it depends on 
the technologies and there--and there's a wider range of those 
technologies that are used. You know, and again, we're focused 
right now on trying to improve the technologies for leak 
detection and repair so that we can quickly identify these 
sources of methane and stop them. So that's really our focus 
right now is on developing better ways to do that. And also, 
you know, it's not just the accuracy of the measurements, but 
it's also, you know, making them at a low enough cost that they 
can be used----
    Mr. Lamb. Right.
    Dr. Hubbell [continuing]. And to trying to make them easier 
to use because some of these very accurate measurements are 
more costly and more difficult to operate, so it's really 
important to think about all those----
    Mr. Lamb. Well, I guess what I'm getting at is I don't 
believe that we have any real requirements in place to sort of 
force operators to choose the highest quality equipment or 
whatever, the cutting edge of what you're discovering, right? I 
mean, to Dr. Lin's point we're still in a very voluntary world 
when it comes to choosing, you know, the best the best 
equipment to use.
    Dr. Hubbell. Yes, and again, I think it's important to work 
with our industry partners to understand what the needs are in 
the particular industries in then different parts of the 
country as well.
    Mr. Lamb. Great. Well, thank you very much for your 
participation and for all your hard work. And Madam Chair, I 
yield back.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Thank you. And now we're going to 
recognize the Congresswoman from North Carolina for 5 minutes 
of questioning, Ms. Ross.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you so much for 
your leadership on this important topic. And thanks to the 
Ranking Member and all of our witnesses for joining us.
    Before being elected to Congress, I was a renewable energy 
lawyer in North Carolina and worked with companies there to 
mitigate and repurpose captured greenhouse gases, some of the 
first methane and also biogas projects I got to work on. And in 
my State of North Carolina, we're home to a unique kind of 
carbon sink ecosystem called pocosin, which is naturally 
occurring wetland. In fact, in the 1960's, North Carolina was 
home to over 2 million acres of pocosin ecosystems, nearly 75 
percent of the country's total. And the measurement of carbon 
emissions of these ecosystems is vital to land management that 
keeps carbon locked in the soil rather than in the atmosphere.
    My first question is for Dr. Lin. In your testimony, you 
discussed how vegetation and wetlands in cities complicates 
measurements of urban methane and carbon dioxide emissions that 
make it difficult to identify their sources. Can you talk about 
why the presence of vegetation and wetlands in cities 
complicate these measurements and what is needed to improve the 
accuracy and attribution of urban and regional methane and 
carbon dioxide emissions to specific sources?
    Dr. Lin. Thank you very much for the question. It's 
certainly a complicated system to look at. Basically, 
vegetation and wetlands near cities complicates measurements 
because they are fluctuating, and they're fluctuating at levels 
that would impact the accuracy of the overall measurements of 
what the greenhouse gases emissions and sinks are. And so what 
we need is a much better idea, a study about the modeling about 
how vegetation and wetlands and their fluctuations have an 
impact on greenhouse gases. And we'd also need to advance ways 
which we have been doing of how to detect greenhouse gases that 
are coming from organic and vegetation sources as opposed to 
human and more urban sources. So there's a lot of work to do 
there. And certainly, we're doing that with our partners here 
across the government, which have very extensive efforts in 
attacking the details of how to understand that.
    Ms. Ross. And picking up on Congressman Lamb's last point, 
how can the private sector be involved and be helpful in these 
efforts, if at all?
    Dr. Lin. Well, certainly the private sector is very much 
engaged for many of the drivers that have been shared earlier. 
So at NIST, our approach is to really build consensus and to 
convene parties to try to address them collectively. So our 
Urban Dome testbed program is an example where industry and 
multiple stakeholders come together, share information, and 
contribute to the overall quality of the measurement of the 
overall system, in this case, an urban testbed.
    Ms. Ross. OK. Thank you. And then I wanted to take a little 
bit of a broader view because, as you've all indicated, we're 
not just measuring greenhouse gas emissions from the United 
States but from all over the world. And to anyone who wants to 
use this next minute and 30 seconds, why do we need global 
measurements of greenhouse gas emissions if the primary focus 
of Congress is on the United States? And I'll open it up to 
whoever is interested in answering.
    Dr. St. Germain. Yes, Congressman Ross, thank you for the 
question. It's the Earth--as I mentioned earlier, the Earth 
operates as a system and so emissions in one location, of 
course, don't stay put. They mix in the atmosphere. They affect 
the entire carbon cycle. Likewise, regions around the world 
absorb carbon dioxide in different measures. And that's really 
where the power of merging surface-based observations with 
space-based observations can be most impactful. It's the 
satellite observations that can give us those insights in 
regions of the world where we don't have the surface-based 
observations because they, too, are impacting the global 
system.
    Ms. Ross. Does anyone have anything to add?
    Dr. Stein. Yes, in terms of the--we need a global view 
because everything, as Dr. St. Germain presented, it's 
intermingled. And we also not only want to detect changes in 
the United States, but we also want to detect changes in other 
countries and see if other countries are really--and holding 
them responsible for their commitments. So that is really an 
important thing.
    And let me just give you an example. Going back to your 
question about wetlands, the work that we are doing at NOAA in 
terms of detecting changes in natural environments like in 
wetlands, we can use isotopes of carbon to distinguish between 
natural and anthropogenic sources there. And we--we're able to 
distinguish, for instance, that the latest increase in methane 
that we have observed--that we have been observing in the last 
10 years globally is due to changes in biological activity.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you very much for your indulgence, Madam 
Chair, and I yield back.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Indulge away. With that, we're going to 
hear from Ms. Stansbury from the beautiful State of New Mexico 
for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Ms. Stansbury. Well, thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and also 
to the Ranking Member, and thank you to all of our esteemed 
panelists for being here today. You know, I know we've been 
talking a lot this morning about the science specifically and 
how we address the issues around monitoring, around 
standardization of how we measure greenhouse gases, and then 
what do we do with that information to help inform our climate 
action?
    And I want to kind of direct the panel toward the policy 
side of the equation now and specifically science policy. You 
know, we all know we're at a global tipping point. We know that 
we have to take action as quickly as possible. And part of 
being able to take effective action on climate change requires 
that we know that the methods and the tactics that we're using 
to tackle emissions and sinks is actually effective and that we 
are making the investments that have the biggest bang for the 
buck.
    And so I know we've already touched on some of this this 
morning, but I want to ask each of the panelists since you sit 
in different agencies and work on these with your other agency 
partners, are there specific policy actions that you feel 
Congress or the Federal Government as a whole could take that 
would help to standardize the way that we do measurement, the 
way that we deploy instrumentation across the United States on 
measuring carbon emissions and sinks as a sort of network of 
monitoring, and, as I said, standardizing the ways that we do 
it, and then how we deploy that information in terms of 
determining where to make investments as the Federal Government 
in both emissions reduction and in sinks? So if we could, why 
don't we go ahead and start with the panelist from NASA and go 
down the line.
    Dr. St. Germain. Yes, so I think NASA's contribution in 
this space is really to provide the global, transparent, 
repeatable, open, trusted science on which policy decisions can 
be made. And that is reliant upon the sustained support and 
open process for calibrating our surface observations, and as 
well as our airborne and spaceborne. So I think the sustained 
focus on having that open--those open sources of data is really 
going to be foundational to informing the policy choices that 
Members of this Committee and others have before them and 
assessing the efficacy of those as we move along in time.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you. And let's go to Dr. Lin next. You 
know, are there things that we can do as a Federal Government, 
like I said, either as Congress or in the administrative branch 
that would help to standardize the way that we're doing 
emissions tracking and that would help to bring more coherence 
to all of the science that you all are talking about today?
    Dr. Lin. I think the progress in the interagency working 
group has been really outstanding, and that is the forum in 
which these questions you're asking are being addressed. And so 
I think it's really as a continued, sustained--as my colleague 
stated, a sustained support of encouraging and facilitating 
that exercise. It's very difficult to pull all these multiple 
measurements and different points of view into a coherent whole 
that's precise, transparent, and we can have confidence in it. 
But a tremendous amount of progress has been made, and 
certainly there's more room to go.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you. And Dr. Stein?
    Dr. Stein. Yes, we're making--I'm part of the interagency 
working group, and we are making strides to tackle this problem 
from day one. And we see this as a big challenge in terms of 
harmonizing and sharing data sets. Also, the World 
Meteorological Organization is tackling this problem at this 
right moment. So you're asking the right question. And we are 
trying to provide an answer as soon as we can, so we're working 
on that.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you. And Dr. Hubbell?
    Dr. Hubbell. Yes, I just wanted to start by saying that, 
you know, the current inventory that we have is very high 
quality. And really what we're trying to do is being able to 
identify those few areas where there's an opportunity for 
improvements that can help us inform mitigation actions, but 
what we have now is very high quality.
    I think in terms of the interagency effort, I think, as the 
other panelists have said, the interagency working group has 
been really a great place to be able to work on these 
challenges. And one thing I did want to add to that is that 
it's important as we're getting new research and getting these 
systems linked to be thinking about having a steady flow of 
high quality data so that we can track trends and not just a 
snapshot in time, so being able to do this over time is really 
important.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you. And I know I'm out of time, Madam 
Chairwoman, but I just want to add that myself and other 
colleagues are very interested in looking at opportunities for 
Congress to partner with the Administration to help bring a 
policy framework to coherence and how we measure and deploy 
different climate strategies. Obviously, this is the most 
important and pressing question of the day is how do we meet 
our goal of reducing our carbon emissions by 2035, 2040 so that 
we don't cross this catastrophic tipping point? And so I look 
forward to working with all of you on that, as well as climate 
resilience and climate justice. And really thank all of you who 
are working in our Federal agencies for your service in this 
area. You are doing some of the most important work on the 
planet, and we thank you for your service.
    Mr. Tonko [presiding]. The gentlewoman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Illinois. Dr. 
Foster, you're recognized for 5 minutes, please.
    Mr. Foster. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I'd also like to 
thank Chairwoman Stevens, Ranking Member Feenstra, Chairwoman 
Sherrill, Ranking Member Bice, and our witnesses for joining us 
here today. Much of the testimony today has emphasized how this 
area of research is really reliant on a number of stakeholders, 
both throughout the Federal Government, as well in--as other 
sectors. Drs. Stein and Hubbell, in both of your testimonies 
you mentioned several partnerships that your departments are 
involved in. Could you expand on what partnerships your 
departments have with the Department of Energy and our national 
labs and the impact that these partnerships have on monitoring, 
measurement, and verification of sources and sinks of 
greenhouse gases?
    Dr. Stein. Thank you for the question. We have a long-term 
partnership with the Department of Energy, mostly working on 
modeling of climate variables. We also have worked with and 
continue working with the Department of Energy in terms of 
developing measurement techniques mostly for boundary layer, 
the lower part of the atmosphere, measurements, mostly in terms 
of meteorological variables. There is a very long-term 
relationship between the Department of Energy and NOAA in 
particular in that area.
    Mr. Foster. Thank you.
    Dr. Hubbell. And I'll just add that, you know, our work 
right now on the oil and gas sector, we do have some 
collaborations and coordination going on with DOE, as well as 
with our other Federal partners, to be able to better 
understand how we can characterize emissions from this sector. 
And we've also worked with DOE and--we've also worked with DOE 
and other agencies in addressing the overall inventory for 
almost 30 years. So it's been a long-term partnership, and it's 
something that we expect to continue going forward.
    Mr. Foster. Thank you. And, Dr. Lin, your testimony 
highlights how NIST has initiated a documentary standards 
effort aimed at advancing the implementation of mature, 
measurements-based scientific tools and methods. This aims to 
lead the development of global standards as well. And so how 
does NIST incorporate the best practices of the research 
community into their standards development?
    Dr. Lin. Thank you for the question. Our research and our 
attention to the research environment directly informs our work 
in the standards forums. So in these forums, those are 
voluntary consensus areas which are focused on the technical 
solutions and standardization, and we bring all the knowledge 
and the input from the research space that we know into that 
arena so that the best technical solutions can be determined.
    Mr. Foster. OK. And could you speak a little bit about the 
importance of developing these global standards as we continue 
to understand the global impact of greenhouse gas?
    Dr. Lin. Well, I think, as my colleagues have very well 
stated is that the global system is one as a whole. There's no 
boundaries for gases as they traverse the globe. And so as we 
are monitoring our own emissions and sinks, that we need to 
have a consistent way of how to know where the greenhouse gases 
and other things we're monitoring are, and to put it on the 
same baseline is a critical step in that.
    Mr. Foster. And how important is the impact of the loss of 
contact with Russian scientists going to be in this field? And 
I know from my experience in physics that the Russians are some 
of the most brilliant and well-trained scientists on Earth. And 
they've also been very involved in things like understanding 
what Siberia is going to do to greenhouse gas emissions. And 
some--in light of the current situation in Ukraine, some 
Russian scientists are heroically standing up, others not so 
much, but we're going to lose contact with a lot of them. And 
how big a hit is that going to be in our ability to deal as a 
planet with greenhouse gases?
    Dr. Lin. For our point of view--so I'm not sure--I don't 
know directly on this particular field of the impact of of what 
you noted. But in general, we've concentrated on multilateral 
fora which--it's a multilateral engagement and so it's not 
really dependent upon one country or another. And even in that 
environment in the technical arena where we work on, largely 
that is still in place because we're looking at technical 
solutions.
    Mr. Foster. Yes. Anyone else want to comment on that?
    Dr. St. Germain. Likewise, when our interactions with 
Russian scientists have generally been through multilateral 
fora, we haven't historically had access to Russian space-based 
data, so we aren't seeing a loss there. And we'll--we're 
continuing to use the data from U.S. systems, as well as other 
international partners to understand all regions of the globe, 
including the--Russia.
    Mr. Foster. Yes. And I think, you know, Russia, as a 
country has not always been interested in having the numbers 
well known as they apply to Russia, but it's--you know, it's 
going to be--my guess it's going to be very important because 
this is a whole-of-planet effort. Anyway, I am now out of time 
and yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman from Illinois yields back, and I 
believe that concludes the list of colleagues who choose to 
question our panelists.
    Before, however, we bring the hearing to a close, I thank 
our witnesses for testifying before the Committee today, and I 
offer those thanks certainly on behalf of the the Chairs and 
Rankers who hosted this Committee hearing.
    The record will remain open for 2 weeks for additional 
statements from the Members and for any additional questions 
the Committee may ask of the witnesses. I ask, if you would, 
please, respond in a prompt fashion.
    And with that, the witnesses are excused, and the hearing 
is now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:24 a.m., the Subcommittees were 
adjourned.]

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