[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]






 
                          BUILDING A WORKFORCE
                        TO NAVIGATE THE ELECTRIC
                             VEHICLE FUTURE

=======================================================================

                                     
                                     

                             FIELD HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
                             AND TECHNOLOGY

                                 OF THE

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 20, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-57

                               __________

 Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology

                                     
                                     
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                                 
                                     
                                     

       Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov
       
       
       
                      ______

             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
47-530PDF          WASHINGTON : 2023
 
    
       

              COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

             HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas, Chairwoman
ZOE LOFGREN, California              FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma, 
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon                 Ranking Member
AMI BERA, California                 MO BROOKS, Alabama
HALEY STEVENS, Michigan,             BILL POSEY, Florida
    Vice Chair                       RANDY WEBER, Texas
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey           BRIAN BABIN, Texas
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York              ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
MELANIE A. STANSBURY, New Mexico     MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida
BRAD SHERMAN, California             JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado              DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida
JERRY McNERNEY, California           MIKE GARCIA, California
PAUL TONKO, New York                 STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma
BILL FOSTER, Illinois                YOUNG KIM, California
DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey          RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
DON BEYER, Virginia                  JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas
CHARLIE CRIST, Florida               CARLOS A. GIMENEZ, Florida
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                JAY OBERNOLTE, California
CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania             PETER MEIJER, Michigan
DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina         JAKE ELLZEY, TEXAS
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin                MIKE CAREY, OHIO
DAN KILDEE, Michigan
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
                                 ------                                

                Subcommittee on Research and Technology

                HON. HALEY STEVENS, Michigan, Chairwoman
MELANIE A. STANSBURY, New Mexico     RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa, 
PAUL TONKO, New York                     Ranking Member
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin                ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania             JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana
BILL FOSTER, Illinois                JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas
CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania             PETER MEIJER, Michigan
DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina         JAKE ELLZEY, TEXAS
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              May 20, 2022

                                                                   Page

Hearing Charter..................................................     2

                           Opening Statements

Statement by Representative Haley Stevens, Chairwoman, 
  Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science, 
  Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........     9
    Written Statement............................................    11

Statement by Representative Debbie Dingell, U.S. House of 
  Representatives................................................    13

Written statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, 
  Chairwoman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. 
  House of Representatives.......................................    14

                               Witnesses:

Ms. Jennifer Mefford, National Co-Chair, Electric Vehicle 
  Infrastructure Training Program (EVITP)
    Oral Statement...............................................    15
    Written Statement............................................    18

Mr. Benigno ``Ben'' Cruz, Director, Center for Advanced 
  Automotive Technology (CAAT), Macomb Community College
    Oral Statement...............................................    24
    Written Statement............................................    26

Mr. Josh Nassar, Legislative Director, United Auto Workers (UAW)
    Oral Statement...............................................    30
    Written Statement............................................    32

Ms. Marcia Black-Watson, Industry Engagement Division 
  Administrator, Workforce Development, Michigan Department of 
  Labor and Economic Opportunity
    Oral Statement...............................................    42
    Written Statement............................................    44

Discussion.......................................................    52

             Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

Mr. Josh Nassar, Legislative Director, United Auto Workers (UAW).    64

            Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record

Letter submitted by Representative Haley Stevens, Chairwoman, 
  Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science, 
  Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives
    Anne Marie Graham-Hudak, Supervisor, Canton Township.........    68

Letter submitted by Mr. Marco A. Giamberardino, MPA, Vice 
  President, Government and Public Affairs, National Electrical 
  Contractors Association                                            70


                    BUILDING A WORKFORCE TO NAVIGATE



                      THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE FUTURE

                              ----------                              


                          FRIDAY, MAY 20, 2022

                  House of Representatives,
           Subcommittee on Research and Technology,
               Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., in 
the Oakland County Commission Chambers, 1200 Court Tower 
Boulevard, Pontiac, Michigan 48341, Hon. Haley Stevens 
[Chairwoman of the Subcommittee] presiding.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]



    Chairwoman Stevens. This hearing will come to order. 
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recess at 
any time.
    Before I deliver opening remarks, I wanted to note that 
today's Committee hearing is meeting both in person and 
virtually, today's Committee hearing from the Science, Space, 
and Technology Committee of the House of Representatives 
Subcommittee on Research and Technology. Just a couple of 
reminders for Members about the conduct of this hearing. First, 
Members and Committee staff who are attending in person may 
choose to be masked. It is obviously not a requirement. 
However, any individuals with symptoms, a positive test, or 
exposure to someone with COVID-19 should wear a mask while 
present.
    Members who are attending virtually should keep their video 
feed on as long as they are present for the hearing. Members 
are responsible for their own microphones. Please also keep 
your microphones muted unless you are speaking. Finally, if 
Members have documents they wish to submit for the record, 
please email them to the Committee Clerk, whose email address 
was circulated prior to the hearing.
    And a special thank you to House Science Committee 
professional staff for traveling from Washington, D.C., to 
Oakland County, Michigan, for today's hearing, setting up the 
virtual component, as well as the physical component of today's 
hearing.
    So good morning. It is so exciting to be gathered here in 
Pontiac, Michigan, at the Oakland County Commission Chambers. I 
am delighted to host today's hearing as your Subcommittee Chair 
for Research and Technology, and I extend a warm welcome and 
thank you to my esteemed colleagues and our distinguished panel 
of witnesses, certainly, my colleague Congresswoman Debbie 
Dingell, who has been a champion and a dealmaker of the subject 
matter at hand, the electric vehicle (EV) workforce.
    I also want to extend my gratitude to the Oakland County 
Board of Commissioners. We are joined here today by 
Commissioner Gwen Markham, but the whole Board of Commissioners 
who has let us use their space, their convening space, and 
certainly want to also offer up a special appreciation to 
Oakland County Executive Dave Coulter and Oakland County 
Commissioner Chair David Woodward for their leadership not only 
for our county but again for the subject matter at hand, how we 
are going to win the future.
    We are here today to examine how to build a workforce to 
navigate the electric vehicle future. Michigan has been at the 
forefront, as we well know, of automotive innovation for 
generations. Not only did we put the world on wheels a century 
ago at the beginning of the 20th century, but an entire 
innovation ecosystem sprung up around transformative mobility.
    So let's be clear. Michigan has led the way as the first 
State to complete a border-to-border interstate in 1960, the 
home to the first four-way electric traffic light installed not 
far from here in Detroit in 1918. The first highway materials 
testing lab in the Nation was opened in Ann Arbor in 1912, and 
General Motors (GM) produced the first modern electric 
automobile in 1996.
    Now, our automotive companies, Ford, General Motors, 
Stellantis, along with a remarkable supply chain that surrounds 
us here today in Oakland County, Michigan, are leading the 
world in electric vehicle technology and the innovation 
ecosystems that are at the very backbone of the country's 
economy.
    As many of you know, chief among my priorities is to 
champion our manufacturing economy and its workforce in the 
halls of Congress. I've sought to understand challenges facing 
local manufacturers, keep my finger on the pulse of their needs 
through what I call Manufacturing Monday, my Manufacturing 
Monday visits. Every week, I get the opportunity to see the 
very innovation in the electric vehicle space that is happening 
in our own backyard from Allison Transmission's facility in 
Auburn Hills and Continental to Intecells reshaping battery 
manufacturing technology in Troy to One Next Energy in Novi, 
many of the guests before us here today paying witness to 
today's hearing either virtually or in person here in the 
Oakland County Commission Chambers. The opportunities, my 
friends, are right here.
    So not only has southeast Michigan been at the forefront of 
industry, we have also had the enthusiasm for electric 
vehicle--for an electric vehicle future from local leaders 
hungry to become a part of the solution to a cleaner 
environment, communities like Troy, Royal Oak, Berkley, Canton, 
and Ferndale--we're joined here today by Ferndale's Mayor 
Melanie Piana--are taking great strides to be the early 
adopters needed to support the development and deployment of an 
electric vehicle infrastructure, all of which will be fueled by 
Michigan's workforce.
    Michigan remains the preeminent automotive manufacturing 
hub in our Nation. Our discussion today will focus on a vital 
element of continuing this leadership, the workforce. Because 
let's be clear, we can develop the most cutting-edge battery 
technology in the world, but that innovation only translates 
into economic and environmental benefits through the work of 
talented men and women who make it happen on the factory floor 
and in our communities as they're setting up the 
infrastructure.
    Our panel today includes representatives from the Michigan 
Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity (LEO), as well as 
Macomb Community College, home of the Center for Advanced 
Automotive Technology (CAAT), a National Science Foundation-
funded Advanced Technological Education center. They are doing 
extraordinary work to prepare a workforce to power the electric 
vehicle future. Many autoworkers have spent their entire career 
in the field and are experts in what they do, so I'm also very 
honored to have the United Auto Workers (UAW) here to discuss 
paths that ensure the transition to electric vehicles that is 
good for the environment and good for workers. We can't say 
that enough.
    We cannot discount workers or see them cut out of the deal. 
We cannot see Michigan plants close at the expense of new and 
proliferating technology. Oh, no, my friends, it will be 
exactly the opposite. It needs to be more work and better jobs 
and something that can be led by our friends in labor.
    Manufacturing electric vehicles is just one of an 
electric--one element of an electric vehicle future. The 
bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which I was 
proud to vote for and was signed into law just last November, 
provides $7.5 billion, $7.5 billion to develop the electric 
vehicle charging infrastructure with the goal of installing 
500,000 public chargers nationwide by 2030. The communities I 
mentioned here in Oakland County are ripe and ready for that 
investment. Michigan will lead the way.
    To meet these goals, we'll need a highly trained workforce, 
though, capable of installing and maintaining these charging 
stations. Unfortunately, we may be faced with labor shortage of 
qualified electricians right here when we need them most. But 
we have heard from stakeholders throughout southeastern 
Michigan. We've heard from our friends in IBEW (International 
Brotherhood of Electrical Workers). Thirty-five percent of this 
workforce is retirement ready and may leave in the next 5 to 7 
years.
    So I'm excited to hear more about the gold standard for 
training electricians in the EV sector and the Electric Vehicle 
Infrastructure Training Program (EVITP). There is a story to 
tell coming out of southeastern Michigan that, despite a 
pandemic and shutdowns and at times a stymied workforce because 
of COVID-19, we never stopped, my friends. We never stopped 
responding to PPE (personal protective equipment) shortages or 
supply chain disruptions facing American consumers. In fact, 
while the auto industry sourced and produced PPE and 
ventilators, we continued innovating on the electric vehicle 
front and the products and demand around the world.
    Has it been easy? With a semiconductor and chip shortage, 
certainly not. Do we still need to tackle that issue? 
Absolutely, we do. But today, we are setting the stage from 
Oakland County. We will remember this hearing and the 
incredible words and recommendations of our witnesses. What we 
discover, inquire, and capture here today will not only be for 
memory, it will be etched in the congressional record as part 
of our ongoing legislative body of work, how will electric 
vehicle shape our workforce and how will our workforce lead?
    [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Stevens follows:]

    Good morning. It is so exciting to be gathered here in 
Pontiac, Michigan at the Oakland County Commission Chambers. 
I'm delighted to host today's hearing and extend a warm welcome 
and thank you to my esteemed colleagues and our distinguished 
panel of witnesses. I'd also like to extend my gratitude to the 
Oakland County Board of Commissioners for letting us use their 
space--and offer up my special appreciation to Oakland County 
Executive David Coulter and Commissioner David Woodward for 
their leadership.
    We are here today to examine how to build a workforce to 
navigate the electric vehicle future. Michigan has been at the 
forefront of automotive innovation for decades. Not only did we 
put the world on wheels at the beginning of the 20th century 
with automobiles, but an entire innovation ecosystem sprung up 
around this transformative kind of mobility. And let's be 
clear, it was Michigan leading the way. As the first state to 
complete a border-to-border interstate in 1960, the home to the 
first four-way electric traffic light installed not far from 
here in Detroit in 1918. The first highway materials testing 
lab in the Nation was opened in Ann Arbor in 1912. And General 
Motors produced the first modern electric automobile in 1996.
    Now, our auto companies--Ford, General Motors and 
Stellantis, along with our remarkable supply chain--are leading 
the world in electric vehicle technology and the innovation 
ecosystems that are the very backbone of our Midwestern 
regional economy. As many of you know, chief among many 
priorities of mine is to champion our manufacturing economy and 
its workforce in the halls of Congress. I've sought to 
understand the challenges facing local manufacturers through 
what I call my Manufacturing Monday visits. Every week, I see 
the innovation in the electric vehicle space that is happening 
right in our own backyard. From Allison Transmission Facility's 
in Auburn Hills to Intecells reshaping battery manufacturing 
technology in Troy to One Next Energy in Novi. The 
opportunities are right here.
    Not only has Southeast Michigan been at the forefront of 
this industry, but we also have the enthusiasm for the electric 
vehicle future from local leaders--hungry to become a part of 
the solution to a cleaner environment. Communities like Troy, 
Royal Oak, Berkley, Canton, and Ferndale are taking great 
strides to be the early adopters needed to support the 
development and deployment of electric vehicle infrastructure. 
All of which will be fueled by Michigan's workforce.
    Michigan remains the preeminent automotive manufacturing 
hub in our country. Our discussion today will focus on a vital 
element of continuing this leadership--the workforce. Because 
let me be very clear--we can develop the most cutting-edge 
battery technology in the world, but that innovation only 
translates into economic and environmental benefits through the 
work of talented men and women who make it happen on the 
factory floor.
    Our panel today also includes representatives from the 
Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity as well 
as Macomb Community College, home of the Center for Advanced 
Automotive Technology, a National Science Foundation funded 
Advanced Technological Education Center. They are doing 
extraordinary work to prepare a workforce to power the electric 
vehicle future. Many auto workers have spent their entire 
career in the field and are experts at what they do. I'm happy 
to have the United Auto Workers here to discuss paths that 
ensure the transition to electric vehicles is good for the 
environment, and is good for workers. We cannot discount 
workers or see them cut them out of the deal. We cannot see 
Michigan plants close at the expense of new and proliferating 
technology. It needs to be the opposite: more work and better 
jobs, and something that can be led by our friends at labor.
    Manufacturing electric vehicles is just one part of an 
electric vehicle future. The bipartisan Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act, which I was proud to vote for and was 
signed into law in November, provides 7.5 billion dollars to 
develop the electric vehicle charging infrastructure with the 
goal of installing 500,000 public chargers nationwide by 2030.
    To meet these goals, we will need a highly trained 
workforce capable of installing and maintaining these charging 
stations. Unfortunately, we may be faced with a shortage of 
these qualified electricians right when we need them the most. 
We have heard from stakeholders that in Southeast Michigan, 
about 35% of this workforce is retirement-ready and may leave 
in the next 5 to 7 years. I'm excited to hear more about the 
gold standard for training electricians in the EV sector, the 
Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program.
    There is a story to tell coming out of Southeastern 
Michigan that despite a pandemic and shutdowns and an at times 
stymied workforce, we never stopped. We never stopped 
responding to PPE shortages or supply chain disruptions facing 
American consumers. In fact, while the auto industry sourced 
and produced PPE and ventilators, we continued innovating 
electric vehicles and the products in demand around the world. 
Has it been easy with semiconductor/chip shortages? No. Do we 
still need to solve that problem: absolutely. But today, we are 
setting the stage from Oakland County. We will remember this 
hearing and the incredible words of our witnesses. What we 
discover, inquire and capture here today will not only be 
remembered, it will be etched into the Congressional Record as 
part of our ongoing legislative body of work. How will EV's 
shape our workforce and how will our workforce lead?
    Before I introduce our witness, I'd like to ask unanimous 
consent to enter into the record a letter of support from 
Canton's Supervisor, Anne-Marie Graham-Hudak, highlighting the 
importance of today's field hearing for local governments in 
Michigan. Her letter outlined the creative ways Canton is 
partnering with SEMCOG to apply for electric vehicle chargers 
funding through the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the 
workforce necessary to maintain and install chargers. I would 
like to thank her for submitting a letter and for her passion 
on this topic.

    Chairwoman Stevens. So before I introduce our witnesses, I 
would like to ask for unanimous consent to enter into the 
record a letter of support from one of Michigan's 11 very own 
Township Supervisors, Canton Township Supervisor Anne-Marie 
Graham-Hudak, highlighting the importance of today's field 
hearing for local governments in Michigan. Her letter outlined 
the creative ways Canton is partnering with SEMCOG (Southeast 
Michigan Council of Governments) to apply for electric vehicle 
chargers funding for the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the 
workforce necessary to maintain and install chargers. So I'd 
like to thank Canton Township Supervisor Graham-Hudak for 
submitting a letter and for her passion on this topic.
    And at this time I would like to turn to Congresswoman, my 
friend, Debbie Dingell, who will also give an opening 
statement. Thank you.
    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you, Chairman Stevens, for inviting me 
and holding today's important field hearing to examine the 
electric vehicle workforce needs that industry is facing. 
Lawmakers need to understand it as we begin the 
transformational shift toward electrifying the transportation 
sector. If we are to be successful and continue our global 
leadership in building the vehicles of the future right here in 
Michigan, we will need a strong American workforce.
    I've always been a car girl. I'm proud of it. Now I'm an EV 
car girl, and I'm very proud of the fact that Michigan put the 
world on wheels 100 years ago, and I want to make sure that the 
United States and Michigan stays at the forefront of innovation 
and technology worldwide and continues to be the mobility 
leader.
    The future of the auto industry is electric. We know this. 
Michigan has been leading the way on this front. Ford, 
headquartered in Dearborn, Michigan, recently announced a new 
global battery center in southeast Michigan and not only 
unveiled the all-electric F-150 Lightning but is committed to 
doubling down on its production to meet demands.
    General Motors finally I mean, I'm, very--what we want to 
do is be bringing these battery plants to Michigan, and it took 
losing two Ford plants to, I think, wake up the Michigan 
community that we want to make sure we are not losing those 
plants. And General Motors will be, very excitingly, locating 
their next battery plant in Oakland County where it really 
matters. Stellantis is doing the same kind of work. A lot of 
people are looking at locating the kind of work that we want to 
keep here in Michigan.
    I was very proud last year just--it was last August--to 
stand at the White House with the President, all of the OEMs 
(original equipment manufacturers), all of the 
environmentalists, and the union presidents as the President 
announced an ambitious new target to make half of all new 
vehicles sold in 2030 zero-emission vehicles. And by the way, 
that came about as the results of a lot of hard work, the 
environmentalists and the union sitting down at a table, each 
talking about their issues, talking about their concerns, 
understanding each other's concerns, and working together to 
find solutions to where the issues were going to be.
    With this landmark announcement and with more and more EVs 
expected to hit the road over the coming years, it's critical 
we're getting the policies right so this transition is swift 
and supports a strong American-built workforce.
    I was at Region 1A, the UAW, with a cross-section of UAW 
workers at Region 1A about a month ago, and interestingly, the 
No. 1 issue and the only issue that most of them wanted to talk 
about was training the workforce for the future, how people 
were going to need skills, how these were complex vehicles. 
People used to be worried and I think there's still some 
anxiety that as you go from the internal combustion engine to 
an electric vehicle, will there be fewer jobs? There will be 
new jobs, different jobs, and the workers want to make sure 
that they're going to be trained themselves and that there will 
be workers that are going to be trained to work there with 
them. That's very important.
    So that's why today's field hearing is so important. The EV 
workforce is essential to the future of this country, and what 
better place for a field hearing than the home of where it all 
began. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Johnson follows:]

    Good morning and thank you to Chairwoman Stevens for 
holding today's hearing. I look forward to a fruitful 
discussion about the workforce needs that must be addressed in 
order to usher in a bright future for the electric vehicle 
industry.
    Building a STEM (science, technology, engineering, and 
mathematics) workforce equipped to meet the needs of this 
country's emerging industries is an urgent national challenge. 
The Committee on Science, Space, and Technology has worked 
tirelessly over the past two years to develop important 
provisions that have been included in the America COMPETES Act. 
This landmark bill will accelerate progress on key emerging 
technologies like quantum computing, artificial intelligence, 
biotechnology, and clean energy technologies that power 
electric vehicles. These technologies have the potential to 
launch entirely new industries. They will help address pressing 
societal challenges like climate change. They will bolster our 
economy and our national security.
    I am immensely proud of what we've been able to achieve on 
a bipartisan basis. But the vision laid out in COMPETES can 
only be realized if we have a skilled STEM workforce in place 
to translate research and innovation into products and 
services.
    We need more technicians, manufacturers, software 
developers, engineers, and scientists to come to the table. We 
need to foster an inclusive culture to ensure students and 
workers from all backgrounds can contribute their talents. Let 
me be clear, our shortage of STEM workers is holding us back. 
At the very moment when our global competitors and adversaries 
are pulling ahead on critical technologies, we are struggling 
to keep pace. It is time we learned a hard lesson from our past 
mistakes. We cannot race ahead in developing cutting edge 
technologies without building the workforce critical to 
ensuring Americans will reap the benefits.
    Thank you, again to Chairwoman Stevens for holding this 
important hearing. I yield back.

    Chairwoman Stevens. Great. And at this time I would like to 
introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is Ms. Jennifer 
Mefford. Ms. Mefford is the National Co-Chair of the Electric 
Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program, EVITP, a volunteer 
coalition of automakers, utility partners, and EV stakeholders 
that delivers charging infrastructure, installation training, 
and certification throughout the United States and Canada. Ms. 
Mefford has more than 30 years of experience in business and 
workforce development.
    Our next witness is Mr. Ben Cruz. Mr. Cruz is the Director 
of the Center for Advanced Automotive Technology at Macomb 
Community College. CAAT is an Advanced Technological Education 
center funded by the National Science Foundation, something 
that we care a lot about on the Science Committee, that 
partners with industry, education, government, and professional 
organizations to deliver curricula and skills training in 
advanced automotive technology programs. Prior to joining 
Macomb Community College, Mr. Cruz was Senior Engineer Group 
Manager for GM at the Warren Technical Center.
    We are also joined here today by Mr. Josh Nassar. Mr. 
Nassar is the Legislative Director for the United Auto Workers, 
the UAW. In this role he works closely with Congress, the 
executive branch, and stakeholders to design a legislative 
strategy on labor, trade, environment, healthcare, defense, 
energy, tax policy, and other issues. Mr. Nassar previously 
worked as an Assistant Legislative Director for the Service 
Employees International Union. He also worked as the Vice 
President for Federal Affairs at the Center for Responsible 
Lending and served as a Legislative Assistant for Congresswoman 
Jan Schakowsky.
    Lastly, we are also joined by Ms. Marcia Black-Watson. Ms. 
Black-Watson serves as the Industry Engagement Division 
Administrator for the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic 
Opportunity. In this role she leads a team that promotes 
demand-driven workforce-development strategies to help attract, 
retain, and develop talent in high-growth, high-wage industry 
sectors. Marcia has worked in the workforce development field 
since 1998, spearheading a number of State-level taskforces, 
projects, initiatives focused on meeting the workforce demands 
of industry. In January 2021 she received very rightly the 
State of Michigan Symbol of Excellence Award.
    So our witnesses should know that you will each have 5 
minutes for your spoken testimony. Your written testimony will 
certainly be included in the record for the hearing. When 
you've completed your spoken testimony, we will begin with 
questions. Each Member will have 5 minutes to question the 
panel. And if you're all right, Ms. Mefford, we'll start with 
you for 5 minutes.

               TESTIMONY OF MS. JENNIFER MEFFORD,

              NATIONAL CO-CHAIR, ELECTRIC VEHICLE

            INFRASTRUCTURE TRAINING PROGRAM (EVITP)

    Ms. Mefford. Great, thank you, Chairwoman Stevens and 
Congresswoman Dingell and distinguished Members of the 
Subcommittee for inviting me to testify today. My name is 
Jennifer Mefford, and I currently serve as the National Co-
Chair of the Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program, 
or EVITP. It seems fitting to be here with you in Michigan 
where EVITP began around the time of the launch of the Chevy 
Volt. We began as a convening of stakeholders, including 
automakers, utility companies, charging manufacturers, and 
safety and electrical professionals, all focused on charging 
installation best practices and standards and specifically the 
critical role of the electrician with EV charging service and 
maintenance.
    Getting the charging experience and safety right was 
critical then and it remains critical today, so we rolled up 
our sleeves and build EVITP together. Partner advisors 
volunteer time, expertise, and content to develop a 
comprehensive brand-agnostic nonprofit training curriculum for 
licensed electricians or, in States without licensing, 
electricians with an equivalent of 8,000 hours of on-the-job 
training.
    EVITP training and certification is an 18-hour 
comprehensive course plus a 2-hour proctored exam. To date, 
we've certified thousands of qualified electricians in all 50 
States and have hundreds of affiliated contractors and are 
recognized by the U.S. Department of Energy and in the official 
National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure, NEVI, formula program 
guidance to States as a highly regarded training program for 
electricians working on EV charging installations.
    EV infrastructure projects are primarily comprised of the 
electrical construction work skills deployed by experienced 
electricians every day. Adding advanced EVITP training to an 
experienced electrician's considerable skills is critical to 
performing accurate site assessment, load calculations, 
adequate sizing, panel upgrades, and much more. It's not a 
simple dryer outlet.
    The majority of EV charging today happens at home. Single-
family, multifamily, apartment living, and the addition of new 
capabilities like bidirectional charging for the Ford F-150 
Lightning all present different site access, power 
requirements, and states of readiness for an experienced 
electrician to consider, other considerations like panel size 
and capacity, for example. For example, in Detroit and 
Cincinnati and many other cities, many homes have 60 to 100 amp 
service, which is likely not enough to add charging right out 
of the gate. And while upgrading electrical components and 
panels does increase the cost of EV charging installations, 
it's essential for the safety of workers, residents, and first 
responders. It's really all about safety.
    The role of the experienced electrician is critical, 
especially in areas where electrical inequity may exist due to 
older infrastructure. Currently, 17 States do not have--do not 
require electricians to be licensed. The ability to verify 
experience and expertise through a nationally recognized EV 
training and certification program, EVITP, will ensure that 
consumers in all market segments are working with highly 
skilled, properly trained electricians. Again, it's all about 
safety.
    So how many electricians will it take to get the job done? 
We're here in Michigan, so I'm going to cite a Michigan 
example. There are currently 19,637 State-licensed electricians 
and master electricians in Michigan. More than 450 have 
advanced EVITP certification skills already. Again, we began 10 
years ago, and we've been upskilling workers ever since. 
Michigan has 6,577 registered apprentices. If Michigan installs 
50,000 charging stations over the next 3 years working in crews 
of varying sizes that include EVITP-certified electricians, 
non-EVITP electricians, and electrical apprentices, Michigan 
needs 90 EVITP electricians, 69 non-EVITP electricians, and 118 
electrical apprentices to install 50,000 charging stations in 3 
years. That's 277 electrical workers out of a total of 26,000-
plus or a little over roughly 1 percent.
    So the good news is that, for today, we're OK, and that 
really mirrors out across the country. Frankly, there's been 
very little infrastructure that's come in, and we've been 
actively upskilling workforce for a decade. So we're very 
excited about where we go from here, but of course we have to 
prepare not for where we are today but for where we're going. 
We understand that this market is growing rapidly, and we need 
to be on top of that and in front of it.
    So from a workforce perspective, it's a great time to 
become an electrician. It's a great time to be one and a great 
time to become one. The entire industry is growing. Electric 
vehicles, solar, energy storage, smart technologies, grid 
improvements, and of course manufacturing for all these great 
facilities to support the industry all offer workforce 
opportunities for many, including electricians.
    The best way to get more qualified electricians is through 
the U.S. Department of Labor registered apprenticeship programs 
and quality pre-apprenticeship programs. Registered 
apprenticeship programs have a proven track record of success 
in training individuals to succeed in the construction trades 
for long-term careers with great wages, benefits, and 
retirement security. Quality pre-apprentice programs prepare 
individuals for registered apprenticeships. These programs are 
crucial for engaging returning citizens, veterans, minorities, 
and other underrepresented groups that have traditionally been 
left out of the construction industry and oftentimes play a 
critical role in remediating math skills that are so important 
to be a highly qualified electrician. The industry will also 
need more qualified electrical contractors. Partnerships with 
community colleges and universities may offer vital dual track 
education to prepare more electricians to become contractors.
    Charging infrastructure plays a key role in the expansion 
of the EV market. While the number of licensed and certified 
electricians in the United States today is adequate for current 
installations, additional training for existing experience 
electricians and onboarding of new electricians through 
registered apprenticeship programs and quality pre-apprentice 
programs will be key to meet future demand. These need to be 
dual tracks worked at the same time, but the good news is that 
we have the infrastructure from a training perspective in place 
to do that. The EVITP training and certification program 
ensures a high level of electrical safety and performance in EV 
charging installation in all markets.
    Thank you for the opportunity to address you today. I look 
forward to questions as we move through the meeting.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Mefford follows:]
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    Chairwoman Stevens. We're one witness in, and we can 
already tell we would like to be here all day, given how 
exciting and important this topic is.
    But with that, we're going to move to Mr. Cruz for 5 
minutes of opening statement. Thank you.

             TESTIMONY OF MR. BENIGNO ``BEN'' CRUZ,

                 DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR ADVANCED

                 AUTOMOTIVE TECHNOLOGY (CAAT),

                    MACOMB COMMUNITY COLLEGE

    Mr. Cruz. Thank you. Representative Stevens and 
distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for inviting 
me to join this meeting--this hearing here today. My name is 
Ben Cruz, and I'm Director for the Center of Advanced 
Automotive Technology at Macomb Community College. And I am 
honored to join the Committee to talk about building a 
workforce to support the future of electric vehicles.
    From my perspective and my role at Macomb Community 
College, CAAT, CAAT is the Center for Advanced Automotive 
Technology. I'm going to refer to it as CAAT from here on. I 
believe that Detroit has taken a new leadership role in EV 
engineering and EV manufacturing. Recent news from OEMs 
including GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, as well as other 
companies, document that they are fast-forward in investments 
in advanced EV technology, EV manufacturing, EV development, EV 
design, and anything that has to do with the EV industry.
    Equally significant is the number of tier 1 EV slot system 
and component suppliers. These are the companies that supply, 
you know, to the OEMs. They have a strong presence here in 
Detroit and the Detroit area. While this is good for southeast 
Michigan, our region is not alone in working to attract 
electric vehicle manufacturing and related industries. Several 
States are putting together great--a great deal of effort in 
becoming significant players in the EV industry ecosystem.
    Fostering and maintaining robust skilled--a robust, skilled 
workforce will be a key component to attracting and retaining 
these industry members. Currently, we have a shortage in 
locally--here locally, and EV--in the EV technically skilled 
workers in the area of vehicle development, vehicle design, 
vehicle test, the research and development (R&D) activity. In--
that needs attention. Representatives from several of our 
companies I've named have come to Macomb--to Macomb Community 
College to look for potential employees. In most cases, they 
are also looking for training programs to upskill their current 
and incoming workers.
    Developing courses and training programs in emerging 
technologies requires input from industry experts. CAAT works 
hard to keep current with training automotive advancements by 
developing and cultivating partnerships with industry. We work 
collaboratively with industry--working collaboratively with 
industry is the foundation from which development--the 
development of courses and programs come from, and this is for 
degree programs and non-credited workforce training. The--this 
ensures providing our students with the most relevant training 
to support them in gaining higher technical skill sets that are 
needed to work in the area companies involved in the electric 
vehicle industry.
    Macomb Community College offers associate degree programs 
in automotive technology, engineering technology, including an 
associate degree like the vehicle engineering technician 
program, the automotive manufacturing technician program. 
Additionally, Macomb Community College--Macomb CAAT also has 
several courses in EV power electronics--electrical drive 
systems, and as well as several industry-related workforce 
development programs. Macomb vehicle--the--Macomb's vehicle 
engineering technician program was developed with input from 
Continental, Bosch, GM, and it's a unique program that blends 
aspects of automotive systems, mechanical systems, electronics, 
instrumentation, software skills, you know, in preparing these 
students with an expertise to be able to work in engineering 
laboratories, engineering test proving grounds, and other 
development facilities of the OEMs.
    Macomb CAAT also works to connect students to the next 
level of education and automotive mobility-related programs. 
Building on their initial education at Macomb, students can 
pursue a bachelor's degree in automotive EV engineering 
technology or a bachelor's of science degree in engineering 
through our partners at Wayne State University, a local 
university here in Detroit.
    We also recognize the importance of introducing to the 
youth the possibilities and opportunities of career and 
emerging automotive technologies. We have STEM outreach 
programs that span through 5th through 12th grade with hands-on 
building projects that demonstrate the performance of wind 
power, electrical solar cells, battery electric-powered cars, 
embedded programming, autonomous vehicle systems, and then with 
a 7th grade--7th and 8th grade students we work with 
electrified and automated smart robot cars, engaging the 
students in constructing and programming the microcontrollers 
and then showcasing the autonomous vehicle performance. 
Additionally, for high school students here at Macomb and CAAT 
support First Robotics. We teach teams fabrication skills, and 
we teach teams embedded microcontroller programming. You know, 
this is something that's going to be used in the autonomous 
vehicle area.
    In conclusion, there is still a much--much work that needs 
to be done, significant efficacy placed in training the new 
workforce, upskilling incumbent workers, training 
underrepresented populations, and conducting effective outreach 
K through 12 to engage and expand youth interest in skilled 
trades, technology, and emerging fields. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Cruz follows:]
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    Chairwoman Stevens. Phenomenal. And with that, we'll hear 
from Mr. Nassar for 5 minutes of testimony.

                 TESTIMONY OF MR. JOSH NASSAR,

        LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR, UNITED AUTO WORKERS (UAW)

    Mr. Nassar. Thank you, Chairwoman Stevens and Members of 
the Subcommittee and guests. I'm really honored to be here 
today on behalf of not just the 1 million members of UAW and 
retirees but also our President Ray Curry and the Executive 
Board.
    It's really fair to say that the majority of UAW's members 
and retirees' livelihood and retirement security depends on the 
success of the U.S. auto industry. There's an awful lot at 
stake here for UAW members and retirees, but also it's much 
broader than that because it's also we're talking about the 
communities where folks live in and the fact that, you know, 
auto manufacturing has always been the cornerstone of domestic 
manufacturing in the United States. And as this transition 
happens, we need to keep it that way.
    But the reality is that U.S. autoworkers are facing a lot 
of difficulties and headwinds. When you adjust for inflation 
over the past 15 or so years, you see that wages have not kept 
up with productivity and cost of living at all for autoworkers. 
In fact, it's dropped by about 20 percent, again, when adjusted 
for inflation. Why is that happening? Well, it's happening for 
a plethora of reasons. You know, bad policies frankly, tax laws 
that reward offshoring, trade policies that are for 
corporations' interests rather than workers', weak labor law, 
lack of worker centric procurement. But overwhelmingly, we've 
lacked an industrial policy.
    I think it's really important to point out that China, for 
example, they have made at least $60 billion worth of support 
to foster their EV industry, which is far ahead of ours. And 
they're also dominating the supply chain. And some people tend 
to--you know, will assume that they dominate the supply chain 
for electric batteries because of some kind of geographic 
advantage, but that's really not true. The vast majority of the 
minerals, they are not located in China. It's just they've been 
very proactive and they've had a policy of trying to secure 
domination in EVs, we haven't done that.
    And it's happening. The EV transition is happening. While 
it's still a small percent of the overall auto market, there's 
no question it's going to grow. So the question is not whether 
more EVs are going to be on the road or built but where are 
they going to be built and what kind of jobs are they going to 
support? So it's really going to be important that the Federal 
Government use all levers of power to ensure that taxpayer 
money to support this industry is used in support of creating 
and maintaining good union jobs. That's absolutely critical.
    We have seen--you know, there's quite a few startups in 
this industry. We don't know a lot of times kind of how they're 
going to interact with the workforce, but we have seen 
troubling things from many foreign-based auto companies who are 
unionized in their home countries and then they come to the 
United States, they take a very hostile view toward unions. 
There are companies that have their only nonunion facilities in 
the U.S.
    So clearly we have a lot to do as far as labor law, as far 
as creating incentives to reward the creation of good union 
jobs. That's one of the reasons why we're so happy with the 
House-passed Build Back Better and the Kildee-Stabenow EV tax 
credit that actually encourages and rewards the creation of 
good union jobs and also encourages cars to be made 
domestically. We think that's really important, and we hope the 
Senate, you know, will pursue those policies.
    But the real bottom line here is that this--we cannot leave 
workers behind. This cannot be a process where workers are an 
afterthought, where we just leave it up to the--you know, the 
decisions made in corporate board rooms to--and Wall Street to 
decide where this industry is going to be built and where these 
jobs are going to be made. And we need to secure the entire 
supply chain from the gathering, you know, of minerals to the 
production of the batteries, not just the battery packs but 
the--all the way through.
    As far as job training and getting folks ready, we 
absolutely need to have a focus on that. I will point out that 
UAW has successfully worked with many of our employers through 
our collective bargaining to have really effective 
apprenticeship programs. I think that's something that I've 
encouraged the Congress and this Committee to look at where 
people get--basically are skilled to the new technologies.
    There's constant evolution in the auto industry. 
Autoworkers are prepared to make the vehicles of the future. 
They're doing it already. But this transition is not going to 
be as successful, it's not going to be as good for workers as 
it needs to be unless Congress is very proactive here and 
unless we have very deliberate policies. And again, we can't 
just go with the idea that, you know, whatever corporations 
decide to do or invest in, that's going to solve it all because 
that won't end well for working people and for our communities.
    So thank you for the opportunity to testify. I really look 
forward to answering questions. Again, it's an honor to be here 
today. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Nassar follows:]
    
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    Chairwoman Stevens. Great, thank you, Josh. And with that, 
we'll hear from Ms. Black-Watson virtually.

             TESTIMONY OF MS. MARCIA BLACK-WATSON,

          INDUSTRY ENGAGEMENT DIVISION ADMINISTRATOR,

           WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT, MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT

               OF LABOR AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

    Ms. Black-Watson. Good morning. I apologize for not being 
able to be there. My intention was--U.S. 23 North has been shut 
down, and I am sitting on the side of the road with my hazard 
blinkers on. But I'm happy to be before you this morning.
    So Chairwoman Stevens and the distinguished Members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you so much for the opportunity to testify 
at this important hearing to explore the workforce needs of the 
mobility and electrification industry. My name is Marcia Black-
Watson, and I serve as Industry Engagement Director for the 
Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity Office of 
Employment and Training. Our agency, also known as LEO ENT, 
develops customized workforce solutions for both businesses and 
individuals, including those individuals with disabilities. We 
accomplish this through a myriad of programs hand-in-hand with 
partners at the Federal, State, and local level.
    Recognizing the importance of a future of mobility by 
executive order, Governor Witmer created both a council and an 
Office on Future Mobility and Electrification and the position 
of Chief Mobility Officer within our department. The council, 
who was responsible for public policy recommendations that will 
maintain Michigan's leadership in mobility and electrification 
cited in their 2020 report that industry is expected to need 
12,000 new workers by 2030. Already since 2019 more than 15,000 
mobility and automotive manufacturing jobs have been created, 
many supporting increased EV manufacturing right here in 
Michigan.
    So as mobility and electrification continues to develop, 
investments in manufacturing, technology, and testing are 
leading to significant growth that we've heard about earlier in 
our State, expanding opportunities for companies, investors, 
and workers alike. Michigan is positioned--we have positioned 
ourselves to be at the center of that growth by proactively 
preparing the talent needed for current emerging and future 
jobs and career pathways.
    Now, one such effort at the State level is the Michigan 
Revolution for Electrification of Vehicles, also known as the 
Michigan EV Jobs Academy, which is the State of Michigan's 
initial $5 million 5-year effort supporting an employer-led 
collaborative approach. This approach is designed to respond to 
specific knowledge and skill demands of the industry. LEO ENT 
competitively awarded these grant funds to the Southeast 
Michigan Community Alliance's Workforce Intelligent Network, 
also known as SEMCA WIN, to sustain and expand the academy's 
multiple collaboratives.
    The SEMCA WIN partnership with LEO ENT leverages the 
Michigan Alliance for Greater Mobility Advancement, or MAGMA. 
It is an existing collaborative established in 2009 to address 
skill gaps among professional workers such as technicians and 
engineers needing training to design and build hybrid vehicles. 
MAGMA has a governing board of OEOs, suppliers, and educational 
institutions, and the academy leans on MAGMA's experience, 
their established structure, leadership, and employer champions 
for the development of its collaborative.
    Using a multistep supply chain approach to workforce 
development, the academy is focused on closing skill gaps 
across the State and serving historically underrepresented or 
underserved populations while creating a comprehensive end-to-
end talent pipeline. This will be done by the identification of 
projected job openings, skills, and competencies by reskilling, 
upskilling, and training both incumbent workers and jobseekers; 
career awareness, exploration, promotion, and advancement 
opportunities of in-demand occupations as well.
    A recent survey of the academy employers identified top in-
demand entry-level, middle-skilled, and high-tech jobs. This is 
from assemblers up to the career matter to electrical 
engineering technologists. The academy will deliver measurable 
return on investment for both employers and learners. Initial 
outcomes include enrolling about 700 learners into training, 
close to 500 completing training, and nearly 50 percent of 
those obtaining new employment.
    So by working collaboratively across both private sector 
and the public sector, we will continue to encourage EV 
adoption in Michigan, support our workforce, and build our 
manufacturing core. So thank you for this opportunity again to 
testify today on this important topic, and I look forward to 
any questions that you may have.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Black-Watson follows:]
    
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    Chairwoman Stevens. Well, thank you to our witnesses. And 
allow me to say for the record I'm in my 4th year of chairing 
this Subcommittee, and never have we had such a dedicated 
witness. And if there is any member of the press here, let it 
be captured beyond the record the true dedication that our 
professionals and our stakeholders have to this technology, to 
the workforce, and to the training of Michigan workers. This is 
absolutely remarkable.
    With that, though, since we are joined by a distinguished 
colleague of mine from the Michigan delegation and also from 
the Energy and Commerce Committee, I'd like to start with 5 
minutes of questioning from my colleague Congresswoman Debbie 
Dingell. Thank you.
    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to start 
with Mr. Nassar from the United Auto Workers if he can hear me. 
Mr. Nassar, what are the potential consequences for the United 
States' autoworkers if the United States embraces a rapid 
transition to EVs without significantly scaling up domestic 
manufacturing capabilities?
    Mr. Nassar. Well, I mean, if we don't have the demand and 
we don't have the infrastructure, the sales simply will not 
happen to the degree that we need them to, and ultimately, the 
EVs will be built elsewhere and will be imported. So, I mean, 
what we really, really need to do is put policies--lower the 
cost of EVs so consumers can--more consumers can buy them, and 
we absolutely have to create the infrastructure and help the 
retooling to make this happen. But I want to reemphasize, when 
Federal money--when taxpayer money is given to companies, we 
think that they have a responsibility to create good jobs and 
to maintain good jobs in the United States.
    Mrs. Dingell. So let me build on that. Do you think that 
the current suite of Federal initiatives is paying enough 
attention or we've done what we need to do to get to even that 
50 percent goal for 2030? And then on top of that, do you think 
we're doing enough for the workers' challenges and training?
    Mr. Nassar. The answer is no, unfortunately, to those 
questions. I don't think we're doing enough. I think the House 
took some important action but, you know, there's not a bill on 
the President's desk to really lower the cost of EVs and to 
have, again, that support for the supply chain and for the 
infrastructure. So I think a heck of a lot more investment is 
needed and a lot more really what I would say is industrial 
policy.
    The other thing, too, is that we need to make sure that 
these--the battery jobs are good union jobs. They're auto jobs, 
no doubt about it, they're moving a car forward, but there's--
it's not assured by any way that they're going to be the good 
middle-class union jobs that they need to be. So there's a lot 
of open questions out there, a ton of work to be done. I hope 
that answers your question.
    Mrs. Dingell. Well, it does partially. I think that a lot 
of people don't understand that there are a lot of things that 
have to happen to get to that goal. And then I want to build on 
that last point that you were making about what can be done to 
mitigate the worker displacement and then ensure that these new 
jobs are good-paying jobs and that are providing worker 
protections, which many workers are worried about.
    Mr. Nassar. Well, the first most fundamental thing is 
making sure workers have an ability to have a voice on the job 
because what we're seeing now not just in the auto industry but 
across the economy is a really hostile atmosphere toward 
workers having a voice. And workers having a voice, you have 
more investment, you have better jobs, you have better 
retention. That's just a fact.
    But what we're seeing now is our labor laws, you know, 
they're so anemic, the penalties are so weak for breaking the 
law that it creates little disincentive for employers who are 
just hell-bent on not having a unionized workforce with a 
voice. So passing the PRO Act, which the House has done, the 
Senate really needs to do that.
    Just one thing, for example, captive audience meetings, in 
most union drives, the vast majority of them where employers 
are opposed, they'll have daily meetings where they force 
workers to go in there and just get lectured about all the harm 
that will happen to them and their career and their lives if a 
union is there. And it really wears people down and it's 
obviously very intimidating. That's something that the PRO Act 
would eliminate, would not make them mandatory anymore. So 
striking labor laws, giving workers a voice is the first 
fundamental step, but again, you need these, you know, suite of 
other policies to really make sure those investments and those 
jobs are going to be in the United States.
    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you. Not that I'm testifying, but I 
want to add mineral development to that list and battery R&D.
    Let me go to Ms. Mefford. The U.S. Department of 
Transportation has launched its sixth round of funding to 
establish alternative fuel corridors across the United States. 
The Administration has also announced the new NEVI Formula 
Program, which will provide nearly $5 billion over the next 5 
years to help States create this network of EV charging 
stations that we need along these routes.
    First, can you articulate why it's important for the 
economy that the United States continue to push for the 
electrification of transportation infrastructure, including 
through the creation of these charging stations across the 
country?
    Ms. Mefford. Sure. The infrastructure really plays such a 
critical role in the growth of the market as a whole. Consumer 
confidence, consumer ability to really--to purchase a vehicle, 
make sure that it serves all of their needs, and that they feel 
really comfortable and confident purchasing that vehicle is 
very dependent on the infrastructure access. I have these 
conversations often as I move through markets and around the 
country. Consumers are very excited about the EV products 
coming to market. The auto industry is doing an amazing job 
designing and manufacturing really cool vehicles that people 
want. The hesitation at this moment is still what does the 
infrastructure piece look like? So I'm very excited about the 
plans and the investment in building out these infrastructure 
corridors.
    While most charging is--still happens at the home, people 
want to know they can get from place to place and drive and be 
mobile in their communities and their lives as they normally 
would with a different type of vehicle. So infrastructure plays 
a key role in the expansion.
    Mrs. Dingell. So I'm going to build on that. So I'm going 
to submit questions for the record because I had three more for 
you and we won't get it, but I don't think most people 
understand that most people buying EVs right now are for short 
distances. And what we're trying to do, by getting to that zero 
emission by 2030 is that, you know, the F-150 will do 
everything the F-150 can do now, including getting from here 
all the way up to the Upper Peninsula. So can you be even 
clearer that they want to know that they can get a charge if 
they needed if that----
    Ms. Mefford. Yes.
    Mrs. Dingell [continuing]. If they're going to take a 
longer trip?
    Ms. Mefford. Yes, so, you know, I'm fortunate to be able to 
talk to really a lot of consumers in convenings and have been 
over the last 10 years. And this market is--has shifted so much 
since that time. When the Volt came out, it was really designed 
for the average driver going 40 miles a day, right? So 
consumers want to have a vehicle that fits their complete 
lifestyle, and they just want it to be electric. So go--being 
able to--you know, Michigan, the amazing tourism State, they 
want to be able to go from southeast Michigan up to Mackinac. 
They want to be able to go across the State to the west side of 
the State. They want to be able to live their lives as they 
normally would just in an electric vehicle. That's where those 
corridors and the thoughtful placement of fast charging, as 
well as level 2 charging and the accessibility of that charging 
becomes really critical.
    I travel a lot for my work, and I'm on the road a lot, and 
I--one of my considerations is where are those chargers 
located. How does it feel when I'm there? Is it well-it? Are 
there security cameras? What's happening to me as a consumer 
when I'm interfacing with that charging station?
    Again, infrastructure is just starting to come to the 
market, but what's been in place at this point has been there 
for a while in many instances, not uncommon for 25 percent of 
charging stations to not be operable when you get there. That's 
a huge issue. That's a huge issue for a consumer. So the 
installation is a piece of it, the service and maintenance is 
also a critical piece of it, but for me also the security and 
the thoughtful, again, design and planning of where the 
stations are and what that consumer experience looks like will 
help accelerate this market.
    The vehicles that are planned and coming out and being made 
here--many here in Michigan, I mean, it's amazing. And they're 
so exciting, but we have to shore up that infrastructure piece 
to get those vehicles with consumers.
    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you. I'm out of time, and I yield back, 
Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Thank you. And with that, the Chair 
will recognize herself for 5 minutes of questioning.
    We do have other Members of Congress participating in this 
hearing who will be asking questions, and I will be recognizing 
them next.
    I also wanted to take a minute of personal privilege to 
recognize the Mayor of Plymouth, Nick Moroz, who has joined us 
as well. Plymouth, Michigan, has certainly been in the list of 
communities that has been eager to be an EV infrastructure 
adopter and has kept their eyes on the prize of this 
proliferating technology opportunity.
    And also as a point of personal privilege, given the nature 
of this hearing, EVs are complicated, they are new, exciting 
technologies, they are a moonshot of the 21st century, 
something that we recognize is coming from a place called home, 
a place called Michigan, but are also a part of the broader 
plight of our automotive industry to achieve zero emissions, 
right. It is common to say in industry zero emissions, not just 
electric vehicles but also recognizing the potential that comes 
from hydrogen technologies, similar development of skateboards 
and I guess you want to say technology but also just 
manufacturing.
    And that also has a huge presence here in southeastern 
Michigan from Forvia, otherwise known as Faurecia, a large tier 
1 supplier producing hydrogen platforms for vehicles, Noble 
Gas, which exists in Novi. And we also know in the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act that hydrogen hubs were 
designated--received designated funding and certainly want to 
see Michigan in line for that as well, always in which we're 
going to win the future.
    But with that, the U.S. Department of Transportation, as 
the previous questioner had mentioned, has announced that NEVI 
Formula Program to provide nearly $5 billion in funding over 
the next 5 years to help States create a network of EV charging 
stations. And so just to dive a little deeper, Ms. Mefford, 
just any other things that you can mention about workforce 
barriers? And certainly in your testimony you give a lot of 
notes of inspiration, which we appreciate, but any of the 
workforce barriers that you could touch on to overcome getting 
these EV charging stations into communities?
    Ms. Mefford. Certainly, thank you. I--you know, our 
training program is really designed for existing experienced 
licensed electricians, and in States without licensing, those 
that have 8,000 hours. So I think goal No. 1 was really to 
upskill existing electricians to work very safely, 
understanding that we're building skills, we're building a new 
technology and EV charger infrastructure on top of existing 
skill level. So that was really one of those--one of the first 
goals.
    The second goal of course looking at not only the EV 
pipeline of work coming but looking at the integration of 
solar, of energy storage, of security, of grid resiliency, all 
of this is in that electrical space. So it really does need to 
be a parallel effort to onboard new folks into an 
apprenticeship.
    One of the things I've seen that's worked extremely 
successfully, especially in communities that may not be 
interacting with the construction industry as a whole, are 
qualified pre-apprenticeship programs where they're 
experiential in nature and they let an individual look at the 
electrical pathway, connect to it, have on-the-job experience, 
all of it, and explore whether this is really for them and then 
also be connected to those meaningful Department of Labor-
recognized apprenticeships. So it's truly a career pathway.
    One of the barriers at that point can be math skills. It 
absolutely requires a high level of algebra, geometry, and 
trigonometry competency to be a successful electrician at this 
level. So those qualified pre-apprenticeship programs and even 
partnerships with our community college network can really help 
address any of those deficits that may occur that might be a 
barrier for an individual coming into a qualified pre-
apprenticeship, moving into apprenticeship, and then into a 
successful career as an electrician. And the--you know, the 
goal is to get them the training and the quality--the qualities 
and qualifications where they can work in any electrical 
sector, so it is truly a career pathway.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Well, that is certainly quite powerful.
    And, Mr. Nassar, in your written testimony you had 
referenced the decision that I've been eying very closely for 
Oshkosh Defense to move their awarded $6 billion contract--let 
me say that again for the people in the back, $6 billion 
contract to build the next generation vehicles for the U.S. 
Postal Service to a totally new nonunion plant instead of 
having UAW members in Wisconsin carry out this lucrative 
contract.
    We have seen the pitfalls that happen when some auto 
manufacturers look to reduce their labor costs by building EV 
manufacturing facilities in nonunion-friendly places where, you 
know, right-to-work laws allow companies to shortchange their 
workers on wages, benefits, and workplace safety standards. And 
certainly, you know, the Congresswoman--the Chair is 
enthusiastic for the PRO Act, but this egregious decision that 
I reference is one of the reasons why I introduced the Union 
Autoworkers Job Protection Act. This is a bill that require 
bids and contracts to build motor vehicles for the Federal 
Government to stipulate in which plants motor vehicles will be 
made or assembled, so if a contract awardee wants to move 
production, they must get written permission from the executive 
agency and provide the same-day notification to impacted labor 
unions when they seek permission.
    So, Mr. Nassar, how can policy work to reverse the 
migration of EV manufacturing to the south and reward employers 
who are doing right by their workers?
    Mr. Nassar. Well, I mean, you know, in addition to kind of 
just have workers having a stronger voice in general, I really 
think there has to be--you know, I like your legislation. There 
has to be a real, you know, intentional effort to ensure that 
companies who are benefiting from large public contracts, you 
know, have an accountability for what they're doing with their 
workforce. As far as we can tell--I mean, so there's an 
incumbent workforce that's been there for, you know, over 80 
years in Oshkosh that the company apparently is deciding to 
ignore, and that's just unacceptable.
    And so what has to happen is, I mean, we've got to have far 
more transparency, and there really has to be--this has to be 
taken into account. It needs to be a factor. Like how are the 
taxpayer dollars, how are these investments going to impact the 
communities, you know, where manufacturing is taking place and 
the actual workforce? So just a far more deliberate and kind of 
across-government approach is needed.
    There's a lot of work to do in this area. It's a decision 
that we hope the Postal Service in Oshkosh, you know, will 
change and revisit and do the right thing here.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Great. Thank you so much. And, Ms. 
Black-Watson, what are the barriers to entry and retention for 
women and people of color working in the EV automotive 
electrician and construction occupations, and what steps is the 
State of Michigan taking to provide more opportunities for 
future EV workers from underrepresented groups?
    Ms. Black-Watson. Thank you for that question. Yes, the 
barriers really stem from a number of different factors. One is 
awareness and exposure to opportunities of these careers and 
career pathways that oftentimes individuals in underrepresented 
population groups are not aware of. And then--so really being 
very intentional and strategic about outreach and promotion, 
and that's why some of our efforts are really focused on 
working very closely with our workforce development boards, the 
16 across the State or the Michigan Works! agencies, as well as 
the community colleges that have access to individuals with 
underrepresented populations.
    Another barrier oftentimes are sort of the upfront 
requirements, and some of the employment barriers that really 
exist if you're thinking about--I mean, we've seen this a lot 
with the pandemic, childcare and transportation to these 
employment opportunities, and so our efforts really stem 
toward, one, assessing and identifying these barriers; and then 
two, making sure that there are supportive services that are 
available to mitigate the barriers, not just to employment but 
also to education and training.
    We've talked about the various modes of training, including 
courses and programs, degree programs, as well as registered 
apprenticeship programs. So we certainly want to make sure that 
underrepresented populations who haven't been able to enjoy the 
benefits of education and training and the good-paying jobs 
that are associated with this industry have the ability to do 
so by mitigating those barriers from all different facets.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Great, thank you so much. And I am out 
of time, but I certainly don't want to overlook Mr. Cruz and, 
you know, the role you are playing in our EV workforce, so we 
will dogear that. And I will--or I will turn to my colleague 
Congressman Tonko from New York, who's joined us virtually for 
5 minutes of questioning. Thank you so much for being here, 
Congressman Tonko.
    Mr. Tonko. It's my pleasure, and thank you, Chair Stevens, 
for holding what I believe is a very important hearing on a 
critical topic, a vital topic. And I do appreciate your 
enthusiasm.
    America's auto industry has a strong history with union 
labor. Good union autoworkers jobs have supported the building 
and the strengthening of our American middle class. It is 
crucial that we continue this tradition as we move forward into 
the next era of transportation.
    As part of that, it's also very important that we make 
certain that the EV workforce is representative of our diverse 
society and that everyone has access to good-paying, secure 
jobs in this sector. So I'm proud and pleased to see community 
colleges represented here today. I think these institutions are 
invaluable to the training of skilled technical workers for the 
growing clean energy sector. In my district, Hudson Valley 
Community College is doing a fantastic job with the critical 
mission of training people for clean energy and advanced 
manufacturing jobs, and they have emphasized that they're going 
to make certain that the diversity of my district is well-
represented in that workforce pipeline.
    So, Mr. Cruz, can you share with us more about the role of 
community colleges in developing a diverse technical workforce 
and what further support would be helpful toward that mission?
    Mr. Cruz. Yes. First of all, there is--there are obviously 
some--excuse me, there are obviously some barriers to get, you 
know, more students into the community college, and some of 
those have to do with what Mrs. Blackstone--Black-Watson was 
talking about, and that's the barriers of transportation, the 
barriers of childcare, you know, giving--or offering an 
opportunity to pay for an education via a scholarship or a 
grant, you know, for an individual doesn't necessarily give 
that person the ability to attend those classes because there 
are many other problems with--in the underrepresented areas 
that can be significant barriers to even getting that 
education.
    Additionally, there are some academic barriers that has 
been stated a little bit here with Mr. Nassar--or, yes, Mr. 
Nassar and Mr.--and Mrs. Watson that, you know, there's the 
mathematical barrier. You know, there is--oh, I'm sorry, that 
was you--that there's a barrier, you know, to the math that's 
actually required in some of the electrical and some of the 
pre-engineering classes that are at community colleges. 
However, that is being mitigated by providing tutors, by 
providing people that can actually coach, you know, these 
individuals to be able to, you know, get that background, you 
know, to be able to continue and finish the courses.
    In terms of, you know, recruitment, you know, our community 
college certainly has, you know, a process and a strategy to be 
able to go out and do outreach in the lower socioeconomic 
areas, the underrepresented areas, and we are pushing to make 
sure that we do offer these areas an opportunity to come to 
school and have the opportunity to come and, you know, take 
part in a lot of our educational classes at Macomb.
    Mr. Tonko. Thank you. And I understand from IBEW that the 
Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program is vital to 
strengthening their members' skills in EV infrastructure 
installation. So, Ms. Mefford, can you speak to EVITP's role in 
supporting a union workforce and how the program contributes to 
equity both in workforce numbers and in access to EV 
infrastructure?
    Ms. Mefford. Yes, thank you for the question. EVITP is open 
to all, so we are really an industrywide program, and we look 
to certify qualified electricians that are licensed in States 
with licensing and electricians in States without licensing 
that have 8,000 hours of experience. We are really looking to 
support electricians at a high level to make sure that they 
have specific training for the EV industry to make sure that 
all those installations are done safely.
    One of the things I wanted to just circle back on, too, is 
some of our efforts. We were fortunate enough to work with 
Bloomberg Philanthropies American Cities Climate Challenge on 
26 cities in the United States to deliver scholarships to 
qualified electricians. Fifty percent of those scholarships for 
EVITP training were for women and underrepresented groups. So 
we are actually currently in the process of doing that right 
now, but there are over 1,200 scholarships that have been 
awarded around the country to make sure that those existing 
qualified electricians in underrepresented groups are receiving 
EVITP training.
    Certainly, we support union electricians. We support 
nonunion electricians. We are really looking to create a 
wonderful standard of safety and competency in the electrical 
industry to support EV charging.
    Mr. Tonko. Thank you. I ran out of my time, I see, but Mr. 
Nassar, I'll get a question over to you and have you respond in 
writing, but it was about describing some of the benefits of 
historically having a unionized automaking workforce in the 
United States, so if you could share that in written context 
with the Committee--Subcommittee, I would appreciate it.
    And with that, Madam Chair, I yield back, and I applaud 
your leadership on the issue.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Yes, thank you so much, Congressman 
Tonko, and thank you for your leadership and always the bright 
contributions to this Committee and our hearings.
    I am really excited to introduce our next Member of 
Congress who's joining us virtually, a dear friend as well, 
Congressman Don Norcross from New Jersey.
    Mr. Norcross. Well, thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And we 
really appreciate the kind introduction and, more importantly, 
thank you for holding this hearing. The vision and knowing what 
this means to our country and to the next generation of workers 
is incredibly important, and again, we appreciate it. And I 
wish that all our Members could be here today listening to what 
is going to be the future. And I know we use that quite often, 
but this is real.
    So I love hearing questions from my colleagues about 
electricians. Gee, I happen to be one. We have 200 lawyers, God 
bless them, but we have an electrician. And certainly going to 
the other 4-year school, which was an apprenticeship, gave me a 
little bit different view. And I had been following this, been 
out to Michigan several times, you know, you have a great 
district, Ms. Haley, and, more importantly, while I was out 
there, one of the major features we were looking at was the 
next generation of technology. I was over at GM, the battery 
technology development of fuel cells. And I Chair, in addition 
to being on Education and Labor, Tactical Air and Land, which 
talks about our military and where they're going.
    So GM literally is on the cutting edge of the ISV (Infantry 
Squad Vehicle). It's their next generation of squad vehicle, 
how it can be electrical. And that technology, as I went 
through the plant, is just sitting there on display and being 
put right into not only the cars we're driving on the road, but 
helping to make sure that our servicemen and women have the 
best, appropriate vehicles that they can have, and that happens 
to be electric in many cases.
    So when I hear about trained electricians, standards, we 
see the difficult fight between what they want to do is break 
down those standards, and this is why this program that, Ms. 
Mefford, you're talking about, the EVIT program, becomes very 
personal to me, A, to make sure those who are going to install 
it have the right training, in addition to making sure that 
they have a job that pays the right amount and benefits and 
certainly retirement, but it gets installed correctly because 
what--I've seen unfortunately what happens when that doesn't 
happen. Not only does the worker get injured or killed, but in 
this case when you go to plug in your car, you want to make 
sure it's correct and it doesn't blow up, kill you.
    So talk to me about those standards that are set into place 
here and why that's important. Because you mentioned we're 
taking those who have been through an apprenticeship or a 
training program 8,000 hours, but this is additional training 
because of its connection to not only cars but people.
    Ms. Mefford. Yes, thank you for that question. So EVITP 
began really as this coalition of stakeholders that really 
wanted the EV industry to evolve out of safety, right? They 
wanted to make sure that installations were done safely and at 
the highest level, and that included automakers and utility 
companies and the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) 
and NEIS (National Electrical Installation Standards) and 
everybody that needed to look at this to make sure that we were 
building a program that met all those needs. The goal has 
always been to make sure that installations are done safely for 
any market, residential, commercial, public fleet. And it 
continues to be that today.
    So that's why we built this additional credential for 
qualified electricians that's 18 hours. It speaks to every 
aspect of the charging infrastructure industry locale, site 
assessments, the integration of solar, storage, you name it. 
This market is changing so rapidly. And one of the things that 
I think is so powerful about the partner advisor group that is 
still with EVITP today is that they are from industry. So as 
the industry changes and advances, as charging technology 
changes and advances, we are able to source that material 
directly from industry and integrate it into the curriculum, 
which keeps it fresh. We're on our fourth iteration of EVITP 
right now. It's a dramatically different course than it was 10 
years ago because this is a dramatically different EV industry. 
It will change again.
    I am personally very excited to see the advances in 
charging technology, bidirectional charging, sequential 
charging. I think that in 5 years, 3 years we'll probably see a 
whole different level of charging in vehicle than we are today, 
and that's really exciting, but that will require us to 
continue to evolve training and to make sure that qualified 
electricians and credentialed electricians are the ones that 
are interacting with this technology because on the other end 
of it they are consumers, and it needs to be done properly and 
safely. Thank you.
    Mr. Norcross. I certainly appreciate, as my time runs out, 
just to reiterate that the connection to those existing 
particularly in apprenticeship programs, whether it's the IBEW, 
which has the largest, is that as it changes--and you mentioned 
you're already through four changes, it continues to connect to 
those electricians in the field so they have the latest and 
safest way of doing it.
    And with that, Madam Chairwoman, again, I appreciate the 
hearing, and I yield back.
    Chairwoman Stevens. Well, thank you, and I think all of us 
can see here in Oakland County how fortunate we are in the 
Congress to have such engaged colleagues and eager champions of 
the topic at hand.
    And I want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. As 
I mentioned in the opening remarks, this hearing is absolutely 
historic. It is absolutely a part of the House record. It is 
absolutely a part of a moonshot that we are leading here in 
Oakland County and throughout southeastern Michigan. And it's 
also been a little historic because we've had witnesses engage 
in a hybrid fashion. Again, you know, our deep appreciation to 
Ms. Black-Watson for her dedication and Zooming in from her car 
to testify. I think the things that she was able to touch on--
and by the way, for those who listened to her opening remarks, 
her written opening remarks, alongside our other witnesses, 
were really quite fantastic with some of the charts and the 
graphics and the deep thinking that the State of Michigan 
through LEO is bringing to just this one workforce topic on EVs 
and absolutely needs to be commended and particularly through 
the lens of diversity, equity, and inclusion, something we hear 
over and over and over again on the Science Committee. Let's 
not leave people behind, right? Let's not leave behind our own 
talent geographically or demographically.
    And certainly, you know, I laud the testimony of, you know, 
our other witnesses from UAW to our training programs here at 
the community college and those that Ms. Mefford mentioned. So 
that's the deep gratitude to our witnesses, the deep gratitude 
to our audience members, particularly our community members as 
well. We have the--we did have for most of the hearing the head 
of Oakland County's Economic Development here, as well as the 
support of our Oakland County Commissioners.
    So we will leave the record open for 2 weeks for additional 
statements from Members and for additional questions that the 
Committee may ask of our witnesses. I know Congresswoman Deb 
Ross from the Research Triangle in North Carolina was on for 
part of the hearing and plans to ask some questions, as well as 
fellow Committee Member Congressman Bill Foster of Illinois, 
who had kind of a prehearing to this one in his role on 
oversight around the R&D needs, the battery needs, the supply 
chain needs, the technical needs.
    So with that, the witnesses are excused, and the hearing is 
now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:34 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

                               Appendix I

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                   Answers to Post-Hearing Questions




                   Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Responses by Mr. Josh Nassar
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                              Appendix II

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                   Additional Material for the Record




            Letter submitted by Representative Haley Stevens
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            Letter submitted by Mr. Marco A. Giamberardino,
              National Electrical Contractors Association
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