[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]





 
                      A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH:

                        IMPROVING FIRE SAFETY IN

                       FEDERALLY ASSISTED HOUSING

=======================================================================

                             FIELD HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                        SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING,
                         COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT,
                             AND INSURANCE

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             APRIL 20, 2022

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services

                           Serial No. 117-79
                           
                           
                           
 [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
 
 
 
 
 
                          ______
 
              U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
47-478 PDF             WASHINGTON : 2022  
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           

                 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                 MAXINE WATERS, California, Chairwoman

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York         PATRICK McHENRY, North Carolina, 
NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York             Ranking Member
BRAD SHERMAN, California             FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York           BILL POSEY, Florida
DAVID SCOTT, Georgia                 BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
AL GREEN, Texas                      BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri            ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado              ANDY BARR, Kentucky
JIM A. HIMES, Connecticut            ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
BILL FOSTER, Illinois                FRENCH HILL, Arkansas
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio                   TOM EMMER, Minnesota
JUAN VARGAS, California              LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey          BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas              ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia
AL LAWSON, Florida                   WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio
MICHAEL SAN NICOLAS, Guam            TED BUDD, North Carolina
CINDY AXNE, Iowa                     DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts       ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
RITCHIE TORRES, New York             JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts      BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin
ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina           LANCE GOODEN, Texas
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan              WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania         VAN TAYLOR, Texas
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York   PETE SESSIONS, Texas
JESUS ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts

                   Charla Ouertatani, Staff Director
                  Subcommittee on Housing, Community 
                       Development, and Insurance

                  EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri, Chairman

NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York         FRENCH HILL, Arkansas, Ranking 
BRAD SHERMAN, California                 Member
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio                   BILL POSEY, Florida
AL GREEN, Texas                      BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas              LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York         TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
JUAN VARGAS, California              JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
AL LAWSON, Florida                   BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Vice 
CINDY AXNE, Iowa, Vice Chair             Ranking Member
RITCHIE TORRES, New York             LANCE GOODEN, Texas
                                     VAN TAYLOR, Texas
                                     
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hearing held on:
    April 20, 2022...............................................     1
Appendix:
    April 20, 2022...............................................    39

                               WITNESSES
                       Wednesday, April 20, 2022

Ampry-Samuel, Alicka, Regional Administrator, Region II, 
  Department of Housing and Urban Development, accompanied by 
  Ashley Sheriff, Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary, Real Estate 
  Assessment Center, Department of Housing and Urban Development.    29
Carrion, Adolfo, Commissioner for Enforcement and Neighborhood 
  Services, New York City Department of Housing Preservation and 
  Development (HPD)..............................................     5
Clayton, Sandra, former resident of Twin Parks North West........     4
Gibson, Vanessa L., Bronx Borough President......................     7
Kavanagh, Laura, Commissioner, New York City Fire Department.....     9
Visnauskas, RuthAnne, Commissioner and CEO, New York State Homes 
  and Community Renewal (HCR)....................................    10

                                APPENDIX

Prepared statements:
    Ampry-Samuel, Alicka.........................................    40
    Carrion, Adolfo..............................................    46
    Clayton, Sandra..............................................    49
    Gibson, Vanessa L............................................    51
    Kavanagh, Laura..............................................    55
    Visnauskas, RuthAnne.........................................    57

              Additional Material Submitted for the Record

Cleaver, Hon. Emanuel:
    Written statement of the Door and Hardware Institute.........    62
    Written responses to questions for the record submitted to 
      Vanessa L. Gibson..........................................    65
    Written responses to questions for the record submitted to 
      Laura Kavanagh and Adolfo Carrion..........................    68


                      A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH:

                        IMPROVING FIRE SAFETY IN

                       FEDERALLY ASSISTED HOUSING

                              ----------                              


                       Wednesday, April 20, 2022

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                           Subcommittee on Housing,
                             Community Development,
                                     and Insurance,
                           Committee on Financial Services,
                                                     Washington, DC
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:01 p.m., at 
the Hall of Fame Playhouse, Roscoe Brown Student Center, Bronx 
Community College, 2155 University Avenue, Bronx, New York, and 
via WebEx, Hon. Emanuel Cleaver [chairman of the subcommittee] 
presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Cleaver, Green, Torres, 
and Dean.
    Also present: Representatives Espaillat and Evans.
    Chairman Cleaver. The Subcommittee on Housing, Community 
Development, and Insurance will now come to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the subcommittee at any time. Also, without 
objection, Members of the House who are not on the subcommittee 
are authorized to participate in today's hearing.
    Today's hearing is entitled, ``A Matter of Life and Death: 
Improving Fire Safety in Federally Assisted Housing.''
    I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
    I would like to welcome our first panel of witnesses, but I 
think maybe we will go back and do the opening statements 
because I want to make sure Mr. Torres speaks on these issues.
    On January 9th, a fire broke out at the Twin Parks North 
West apartment building, taking the lives of 17 Bronx, New 
York, residents in what was New York's deadliest fire in 3 
decades. The fire was reported to have been caused by a space 
heater in a third-floor unit, used to stay warm on what was a 
cold winter morning. As the inferno spread throughout the unit 
into other parts of the building, survivors reported a thick, 
chalky smoke that blocked some residents from escaping and 
incapacitated others as they attempted to flee. Subsequent 
investigations singled out malfunctioning self-closing doors as 
a key reason that smoke from the flames quickly engulfed much 
of the 19-story tower.
    The deaths of all victims, including children as young as 
2-years-old, was later attributed to smoke inhalation. The 
incident at Twin Parks North West was tragic. The incident was 
also preventable. And I want to be clear: What happened at Twin 
Parks North West was unacceptable to this committee.
    I spent 7 years living in public housing with my mother, 
father, and 3 sisters, so I understand the whole issue 
surrounding public housing because I know about it 
experientially. And I know that there are always going to be 
struggles. Growing up and living in public housing was a source 
of pride for my family. If you were lucky enough to live in 
public housing, you actually had an advantage. It is painful 
for me to know that today, there are families like mine who 
wait years and years for Federal assistance, only to live in a 
unit where they must resort to space heaters to keep their 
children warm at night, and families living in buildings where 
property owners have been negligent in their responsibility to 
provide a safe and healthy environment for their residents. 
This is not true of all federally assisted housing, or even 
most, but it is far too common.
    Federal, State, and local governments have a responsibility 
to conduct inspections to enforce the law and, where necessary, 
to hold owners accountable for the safety of their residents. 
The tragedy at Twin Parks North West was an unacceptable 
failure of this system, and it underscores the urgent need to 
improve oversight of fire safety in federally assisted housing.
    The tragedy at Twin Parks North West also underscores the 
effect our country's affordable housing crisis is having on 
American families, and the need for additional investment. This 
committee, under the leadership of Chairwoman Maxine Waters, 
has worked diligently to advocate for Federal investments in 
decent, safe, and sanitary housing for American families. We 
have held hearings. We have drafted and advanced bold 
legislation responsive to the needs of tenants. And we have now 
come to New York City at the request of Congressman Torres to 
highlight the critical need for this committee's legislation to 
advance in Washington. Importantly, the legislation, still 
called Build Back Better, and passed by the U.S. House of 
Representatives in November 2021, includes this committee's 
provision to provide $150 billion to expand access to 
affordable, accessible housing, including $65 billion to repair 
and modernize public housing, $1.6 billion to revitalize 
distressed multifamily properties, and $5 billion to address 
health and safety hazards in low-income housing.
    As members of this committee know, the investments put 
forward by this committee are a matter of life and death for 
American families across the nation. And as many of you 
watching today know, the incident at Twin Parks North West was 
not an isolated incident. I would like to thank you all for 
being here today, and I look forward to your testimony on what 
we need to do now.
    I now recognize my colleague, the gentleman from New York, 
Congressman Torres, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Torres. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am enormously 
grateful to you and to Chairwoman Waters for your commitment to 
affordable housing, not only here in the Bronx, but across the 
country.
    It has been 25 years since the United States Congress has 
held a hearing in the Bronx, and it is the first time we have 
done so on the subject of housing. It is long overdue. The 
Bronx is Ground Zero for the housing crisis in America, a 
crisis of both housing quality and housing affordability. The 
tragedy of Twin Parks North West reminds us that the need for 
safe, decent, affordable housing is not an abstraction. It is a 
matter of life and death.
    It is not an abstraction to the father who lost every 
member of his immediate family, nor is it an abstraction to the 
mother who lost her toddler, nor is it an abstraction for the 
children who have lost their parents. A lack of access to safe, 
decent, affordable housing can be a death sentence. It can be a 
firetrap imposed by a Federal Government whose housing 
disinvestment is so cruel and callous that it puts poor people 
of color at grave risk of losing everything--their lives, their 
loved ones, and their homes--from a catastrophic fire.
    Twin Parks North West has held up a mirror to who we are as 
a society and the grave harm that we have done to the lowest-
income people in our country. Twin Parks North West was a 
tragedy, but it was no accident. It is no accident that New 
York City's 4 deadliest fires in the past 3 decades have all 
been here in the Bronx, from Happy Land, to Woodycrest, to 
Prospect Avenue, to Twin Parks North West.
    Most of the people who died in these fires were immigrants, 
immigrants from Central America and immigrants from Africa, 
immigrants who came here in search of the American Dream, only 
to have their lives ravaged by a nightmare, a nightmare made in 
America and made by decades of deliberate disinvestment in 
communities like the South Bronx.
    Enough is enough. We cannot wait passively for the next 
tragedy to happen. We must make the housing investments 
necessary for keeping our people safe in the very place where 
they deserve to be most safe, which is in their homes.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much.
    I would like to now welcome the first panel of witnesses.
    First, we have someone who has been very helpful to our 
committee over the years, Mr. Adolfo Carrion, who is the 
Commissioner of the New York City Department of Housing 
Preservation and Development.
    Second, we have Ms. Sandra Clayton, who is a former 
resident of Twin Parks North West.
    Third, we have Ms. Laura Kavanagh, who is the Commissioner 
of the New York City Fire Department.
    Fourth, we have Ms. RuthAnne Visnauskas, who is the 
Commissioner and CEO of New York State Homes and Community 
Renewal.
    And fifth, we have Ms. Vanessa Gibson, who is the Bronx 
Borough President.
    Thank you all for being here.
    Ms. Clayton, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give 
an oral presentation of your testimony.

  STATEMENT OF SANDRA CLAYTON, FORMER RESIDENT OF TWIN PARKS 
                           NORTH WEST

    Ms. Clayton. Chairman Cleaver, Ranking Member Hill, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today about my experiences at the Twin Parks North West 
apartment building.
    On January 9th, a fire in my building took the lives of 17 
residents. The fire started when a portable heater fell on a 
mattress and ignited, and it spread because the doors were 
propped open. But tenants had been living in dangerous 
conditions for years, and the property owners swept it under 
the rug. Their neglect led to this fire.
    I was a tenant in the building for 26 years. Over that 
time, I saw my building deteriorate. For years, the heat wasn't 
working properly. I kept four space heaters in my apartment to 
stay warm. Everyone I know had space heaters. I used to put 
plastic covers over the A/C vents to prevent the cold air from 
coming through. Before this tragic event, my building was not 
perfect, but some issues should have been addressed, like 
proper working heat.
    Before the fire, the front doors of the building were not 
operating properly, and the building's alarm system was 
malfunctioning and it would go off at night. When the fire 
alarm went off in January, I assumed it was nothing, because I 
was so used to the alarm going off. The only reason why I knew 
there was an issue and was able to get out safely is because my 
neighbor yelled down the hallway, ``Fire, fire.'' If not for my 
neighbor, who knows what would have happened.
    After the fire, the Red Cross, BronxWorks, and other 
organizations were very generous. They gave me furniture, 
bedsheets, and pots and pans. I am so grateful.
    My whole life changed after the fire. I have been receiving 
counseling services, and I have been diagnosed with post-
traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). I watched people who were 
being resuscitated and were not responding. My ex-girlfriend 
had tubes down her throat for weeks. I am getting physical 
therapy now because I hurt my leg. I am thankful that I made it 
out alive, but I am sad for those who didn't.
    During the fire, I lost my dog. I was trying to save 
myself, my ex-girlfriend, and my dog, but I couldn't. I am so 
hurt inside, even if I walk around with a smile on.
    I am at a new apartment now. I feel safer now. My apartment 
has a sprinkler system, and I control my own heat and air 
conditioning. The laundry is on the same floor. The cameras are 
working.
    But I am worried. I sleep with my doors unlocked. I put my 
clothes for the next day by my bed, just in case I need to run 
out of the apartment if there is another fire. I am hoping that 
I will get over this with time, but I am constantly worried.
    I had to return to the building a few weeks ago, and my 
whole body reacted. I remembered how the smoke was coming 
through the walls, so thick and fast. I will always remember 
that smell. They are trying to cover up the smell, but I will 
never forget it.
    There were many other health and safety issues at my 
apartment building that were never fully addressed. There was 
feces, urine, and garbage sometimes in the stairwells and 
hallways. There were rodents in some apartments. Even though 
they brought in an exterminator, it wasn't fixed, so I had to 
pay for my own exterminator. The security guards didn't keep us 
safe. There were no cameras in places where it was needed, like 
in the stairwells. Management thought that just because we are 
low income, they can treat us poorly. We had become accustomed 
to living in bad conditions like that.
    There has been so much attention to the building after the 
fire. Everyone says they want to fix things, but they should 
have been doing this all along.
    I want Congress to take action to keep our buildings safe. 
It should not take a tragedy before people get serious about 
improving the conditions in these buildings. If this happens to 
us, it can happen to other people, too. Congress needs to step 
up.
    Even more importantly, we need to be respected because we 
matter. Our lives matter. My life matters.
    I am just one person, but I want to help change things so 
that other people do not go through this.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Clayton can be found on page 
49 of the appendix.]
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you for your testimony. I think 
your words are powerful, and we aren't just going to listen to 
them and forget them.
    Ms. Clayton. Thank you.
    Chairman Cleaver. Mr. Carrion, you are now recognized for 5 
minutes.

 STATEMENT OF ADOLFO CARRION, COMMISSIONER FOR ENFORCEMENT AND 
  NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES, NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING 
               PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT (HPD)

    Mr. Carrion. Thank you, Chairman Cleaver, and good 
afternoon. Good afternoon, Congressman Torres. Welcome back 
home. And hello to the other members of the committee who have 
joined us, some remotely.
    I am Adolfo Carrion, Commissioner at the New York City 
Department of Housing Preservation and Development (HPD). The 
Twin Parks fire was a devastating tragedy, and we are grateful 
that you are continuing to focus on the important topic of fire 
safety as we all work to prevent future fires. We thank you for 
the opportunity to testify today.
    I want to take a moment to thank the City's heroic 
firefighters, EMS workers, and first responders, who sprang 
into action within minutes of the fire, saving many lives. But 
we continue to mourn the 17 New Yorkers, including 8 children, 
whose lives were lost that day. Our hearts go out to Ms. 
Clayton, who is with us today, and all of the residents who 
were affected on that tragic day.
    Since then, Mayor Adams and teams from across New York 
City, including HPD, have been working tirelessly to respond to 
this tragedy. Our first priority has been to attend to the 
immediate needs of these families, in partnership with the 
building owners, the American Red Cross, the New York State 
Division of Homes and Community Renewal, and our fellow City 
agencies.
    Before turning to HPD's role in code enforcement, and the 
topic of fire safety, I want to stress the critical role that 
Federal resources play in all of these efforts. We are very 
appreciative of the millions of dollars in housing assistance 
allocated to New York City from the Federal Government. 
However, additional Federal resources and tools are needed to 
combat a housing crisis that forces far too many New Yorkers to 
pay too much of their income towards rent or to live in 
overcrowded or unsafe conditions. More than ever, the City 
needs additional funding to protect the quality and longevity 
of our critical public and affordable housing infrastructure, 
to provide desperately-needed rental assistance, to bolster 
local housing code enforcement, and to assist small landlords 
in properly maintaining their properties to ensure the health 
and safety of tenants.
    We were encouraged that significant housing investments 
were included in the Build Back Better Act passed by the House, 
and President Biden's Fiscal Year 2023 budget request to 
Congress that includes increasing the affordable housing 
supply.
    HPD takes our role in ensuring the safety of New York City 
renters extremely seriously. HPD inspectors perform over half-
a-million inspections annually, either proactively or in 
response to 311 complaints. Because we have so many important 
responsibilities, we recognize the need to be surgical in our 
approach to enforcement, beyond the response to complaints.
    In addition, HPD inspectors proactively look for and issue 
violations for multiple health and safety issues regardless of 
whether HPD has received tenant complaints. These issues 
include lead, mold, carbon monoxide detectors, mice and 
roaches, double cylinder locks, self-closing doors, smoke 
detectors, and illegal gates. As part of its outreach strategy, 
HPD continues to educate tenants and owners about health and 
safety requirements during our general communications through 
updates to our ABC's of Housing Information Guide, which is 
also available in more than 10 languages and on our webpage on 
fire safety.
    Given the tragic event at Twin Parks, we know that more can 
and must be done to protect our fellow New Yorkers. In response 
to Mayor Adams' Executive Order Number 12, we are proud to 
strengthen our partnership with the the Fire Department of the 
City of New York (FDNY) around outreach and education, data 
collection and sharing, and strategies for enhanced enforcement 
of the fire code. Partnerships with the FDNY and other agencies 
have intensified our enforcement and education initiatives, and 
the City is fully committed to protecting the health and safety 
of all New Yorkers. We appreciate your support and attention at 
this moment of need for so many Bronx and New York families, 
and we look forward to working with you on this and so many 
other critical housing needs.
    Thank you for your time, and we look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Carrion can be found on page 
46 of the appendix.]
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Carrion.
    Ms. Gibson, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give an 
oral presentation of your testimony.

    STATEMENT OF VANESSA L. GIBSON, BRONX BOROUGH PRESIDENT

    Ms. Gibson. Thank you so much. Good afternoon, Chairman 
Cleaver, Congressman Torres, and members of the Subcommittee on 
Housing, Community Development, and Insurance. I am Bronx 
Borough President Vanessa L. Gibson, and I am grateful for this 
invitation to testify before all of you today on such an 
important topic--improving fire safety in federally assisted 
housing--and for choosing to host this hearing in our Borough, 
on our beloved Bronx Community College campus.
    As many of you know, on January 9th, the Bronx experienced 
one of the most horrific fires in our history. We were shaken 
by this five-alarm fire that took place at Twin Parks North 
West, claiming the lives of 17 of our neighbors, including 8 
children. My office, alongside City and State agencies, 
community organizations, and all of our elected officials, 
quickly sprang into action to provide immediate relief and to 
help find displaced residents temporary aid and accommodations. 
We witnessed how our Borough, the City, and parts of the nation 
came together in response to this tragedy. And thanks to the 
overwhelming support of our communities, we were able to 
distribute aid in the form of food, clothing, bedding, and so 
many other essential items for our families. I am especially 
grateful for our first responders, the FDNY, the Office of 
Emergency Management, the NYPD, and the American Red Cross, who 
acted decisively and heroically to save as many lives as 
possible.
    This tragedy only heightened the many inequities our 
residents have historically faced living in federally assisted 
housing and what we have known to be true all along: There is a 
lack of attention and accountability in addressing longstanding 
violations and a lack of priority and investment for necessary 
repairs to ensure safe, quality, and adequate housing for our 
residents. This fire, as well as many others citywide, could 
have been prevented had these issues been addressed 
accordingly. The Twin Parks fire was determined to have been 
caused by a faulty space heater, a system commonly used by many 
families due to insufficient heating in their building, which 
records show was a constant complaint that went unaddressed 
here at Twin Parks.
    This unfortunate tragedy also escalated due to the 
malfunctioning and faulty self-closing door. Every death at 
Twin Parks was caused by smoke inhalation. The fire itself was 
contained to the apartment that it started in and the adjacent 
hallway. However, the apartment door did not close behind the 
evacuating family, unfortunately, and the fire was able to 
spread quickly throughout this building.
    In addition to Twin Parks, dozens of other families have 
been displaced in fires here in the Bronx and the in City of 
New York just this year. The causes and effects of these fires 
have truly been diverse, but they all show that fire safety 
must be a priority. There is much work that Congress can do 
both to prevent future tragedies like this and to improve the 
housing conditions for the people who have already been 
affected.
    We need stronger laws that hold landlords and property 
owners accountable, and more funding to help revitalize and 
preserve our current inventory of affordable housing. Congress 
should move forward on two of the bills before the subcommittee 
today, introduced by Congressman Torres.
    The first is H.R. 6528, the Housing Temperature Safety Act 
of 2022. This bill would require the owner of federally 
assisted rental dwelling units to install temperature sensors 
in such units on each level of the unit.
    The second bill is H.R. 6529, known as the Twin Parks North 
West Fire Safety Act of 2022, which would require owners of 
federally assisted rental dwelling units to install self-
closing doors in such units. Although this is already the law 
here in New York City, adding a Federal mandate will strengthen 
the enforcement of these policies, particularly when it comes 
to public housing and Section 8 housing.
    Along with local Councilman Oswald Feliz, I have helped to 
introduce two pieces of legislation here in the New York City 
Council that would increase compliance with the requirement for 
self-closing doors. Together, we should be able to ensure that 
every apartment door in New York City closes when necessary.
    I want to commend the House for the passage of the Build 
Back Better Act that is inclusive of housing provisions for 
additional funding for HUD, aimed at expanding access to 
affordable housing, tackling the severe backlog of repairs, and 
addressing health and safety standards in all federally funded 
housing. It has been made clear from the discoveries of all of 
these tragedies that funding is desperately needed, and this is 
truly a matter of life and death.
    I also want to urge Congress to support our President's 
Fiscal Year 2023 budget request, which includes more funding 
for HUD to address housing deficiencies.
    As you have heard from so many residents and witnesses, the 
road to recovery for Twin Parks has been long and burdensome. 
The timeline we envision for relocation has only been extended 
because of current housing crises, coupled with limited Federal 
vouchers. We truly can turn our pain into purpose, and I want 
to thank this committee for your work on tackling fire 
prevention and housing safety as a priority. I also want to 
thank Congressman Ritchie Torres, who has taken the lead in 
crafting Federal legislative action to address the fires that 
we have had this year.
    All levels of government, Mr. Chairman, can truly work 
together--Federal, State, and local government--working with 
all of our stakeholders, to prevent future fires across the 
country.
    I thank you for the opportunity to testify this morning, 
and I look forward to your questions, and thank you so much for 
your leadership and your commitment to all Americans. Thank 
you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Gibson can be found on page 
51 of the appendix.]
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much, Ms. Gibson, for your 
testimony.
    Ms. Kavanagh, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give 
an oral presentation of your testimony.

 STATEMENT OF LAURA KAVANAGH, COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK CITY FIRE 
                           DEPARTMENT

    Ms. Kavanagh. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Cleaver, 
Congressman Torres, and members of the Subcommittee on Housing, 
Community Development, and Insurance. My name is Laura 
Kavanaugh, and I am the Acting Commissioner of the New York 
City Fire Department. I want to thank you for the opportunity 
to speak today about the fire at the Twin Parks housing 
development and how we can ensure that the Fire Department and 
our partners and government are doing everything we can to keep 
New Yorkers and all Americans safe.
    On Sunday, January 9th, just before 11 a.m., the Fire 
Department received a call about a fire in a duplex apartment 
in the Twin Parks North West building in the Bronx. 
Approximately 3 minutes later, the first FDNY units arrived. 
The fire ultimately resulted in the death of 17 residents, and 
46 others were hospitalized. The scale of the tragedy was 
staggering even for the veteran firefighters, EMTs, and 
paramedics who respond to life and death incidents every day.
    The deaths and injuries that occurred at Twin Parks were 
the result of heavy smoke that moved rapidly throughout the 
building, reaching stairwells and hallways. In total, the Fire 
Department dispatched 200 firefighters and 57 ambulances to the 
scene. Every available paramedic in the City was sent to help. 
Fifteen residents who were discovered in cardiac arrest were 
rescued and successfully transported to local hospitals. Dozens 
of others received assistance from firefighters and immediate 
medical care from EMTs and paramedics. But for the efforts of 
those first responders, the number of lives lost would have 
been even greater.
    In the aftermath of the Twin Parks fire, Mayor Adams issued 
Executive Order 12, which requires greater information sharing 
between the Department of Housing Preservation and Development 
and the Fire Department. This strengthened coordination will 
improve the way that the Fire Department conducts inspections.
    Executive Order 12 also directs the Fire Department and 
other City agencies to increase public awareness regarding fire 
safety practices. A key lesson learned from the Twin Parks fire 
is the importance of educating New Yorkers about closing the 
door when fleeing a fire. In this incident, the fire itself was 
contained rather quickly, but the door to the apartment that 
was on fire and some doors in the hallways and stairwells 
throughout the building remained open, allowing toxic smoke to 
spread quickly to every floor. Closing the door in the room 
where a fire is located isolates the fire and prevents smoke, 
heat, and flames from spreading to hallways and stairs. The 
Fire Department has devoted a great deal of attention over the 
last several years to making sure that New Yorkers understand 
the importance of closing their doors when escaping a fire. We 
have worked to educate the public via social media messages, 
public service announcements, and community outreach. Our 
message is consistent: Closing the door saves lives.
    Outreach and education are critical to maintaining public 
safety. FDNY's Fire Safety Education unit has a robust program 
that reaches all areas of the City, focusing on messaging about 
closing the door and a variety of other topics. Active and 
retired firefighters host events with targeted fire safety 
content and materials to increase awareness of fire and life 
safety tips, as well as disaster preparedness. This includes 
but is not limited to fire safety presentations, smoke alarm 
installation campaigns, and mobile CPR trainings. The Fire 
Safety Education unit also responds to all major fires, sending 
teams into the surrounding neighborhood within 24 hours to 
connect with the community, distribute fire safety information, 
and sign people up for smoke alarm installations. From 2015 
through 2021, the Fire Department distributed or installed 
200,000 free smoke alarms.
    In 2021, even with in-person presentations severely 
limited, the Fire Department conducted 2,100 fire safety 
presentations, reaching an audience of more than 150,000 New 
Yorkers, and 601 of those presentations were here in the Bronx, 
which amounted to 28 percent of all presentations citywide. The 
rate of those events has increased dramatically this year. In 
the first quarter of 2022, FDNY has performed nearly 1,100 
presentations, including reaching audiences of 22,000 school 
children. And 900 presentations have been scheduled since the 
Twin Parks fire. We also post fire safety education materials 
online. Last year, those pages received more than 26 million 
hits.
    Looking specifically at the Bronx, FDNY ramped up our 
outreach in this Borough in the immediate aftermath of the Twin 
Parks fire, and we have not slowed down. In the weeks following 
the fire, we engaged with partners at the Department of 
Education, the New York City Police Department, the American 
Red Cross, and a wide range of community boards, community-
based organizations, and faith-based organizations. We are 
coordinating with the Department of Education to distribute 
messaging to educators and to share opportunities to schedule 
presentations in their own classrooms. We are working with 
several individual building managers in the Bronx to set up 
virtual fire safety presentations for tenants.
    January 9th was the kind of day that stays with first 
responders for the rest of their careers. Nobody who was 
involved that day will ever forget the devastation and the 
loss. Our obligation to those we have lost is to learn from 
what we have experienced and to recommit ourselves to finding 
ways to better protect the people of New York City. I thank the 
subcommittee and the House of Representatives for your 
partnership and attention to fire safety issues and for the 
opportunity to speak with you today. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Kavanagh can be found on 
page 55 of the appendix.]
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you, Ms. Kavanagh, for your 
testimony.
    Commissioner Visnauskas, you are now recognized for 5 
minutes to make an oral presentation of your testimony.

  STATEMENT OF RUTHANNE VISNAUSKAS, COMMISSIONER AND CEO, NEW 
             YORK STATE HOMES AND COMMUNITY RENEWAL

    Ms. Visnauskas. Thank you, Chairman Cleaver, Congressman 
Torres, and other Members for holding today's hearing on the 
need for new legislation to better ensure the safety of public 
and affordable housing in America. I would like to thank my 
counterparts at HPD for being great partners in this process. 
And we would like to thank the FDNY for their bravery on that 
January 9th day. We thank the borough president for really 
being a tireless advocate for the residents in this community. 
And we thank Ms. Clayton. We really value your voice in this 
conversation and we are happy to be alongside you today.
    I am RuthAnne Visnauskas, Commissioner of New York State 
Homes and Community Renewal (HCR), where our mission is to 
build, protect, and preserve affordable housing throughout New 
York State. As part of that work, HCR supports local 
governments and municipalities in administering Section 8 
vouchers, rent stabilization and rent control, and State home 
ownership assistance programs, and we are charged with 
implementing Governor Hochul's ambitious 5-year, $25 billion 
housing plan to create and preserve affordable housing.
    Today, I am here to talk about the tragic Twin Parks fire 
that took the lives of 17 people and upended the lives of all 
of the residents in the building, as well as their extended 
families and the larger community. I am also here today to 
share both the State's response to the fire and to discuss what 
more Congress and State and local governments can do to protect 
residents living in affordable housing, including those in 
lower-income, working-class, and immigrant families.
    Following the fire, the primary focus of HDR and my State 
colleagues has been to support the residents in securing safe 
new housing in a community of their choice. Together with the 
New York City Department of Housing Preservation and 
Development, the State Office of Temporary Disability 
Assistance, the Borough President's Office, and many of your 
offices, as well as the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban 
Development, we have actively engaged with the tenants, the 
property owner, and the affordable housing community to ensure 
that the building's residents received both immediate emergency 
assistance, as well as options for long-term relocation.
    Additionally, HDR engaged CVR Associates, which administers 
Project-based Section 8 vouchers on behalf of the agency in the 
Bronx, to work with all of the residents of Twin Parks who wish 
to relocate. Current voucher holders can take their vouchers 
with them if they move, and HDR has worked closely with HUD to 
provide new access to Section 8 vouchers for eligible 
individuals who were living in the building without a subsidy.
    Additionally, Governor Hochul made $2 million available to 
victims for housing relocation services, case management, 
moving expenses, security deposits for new apartments, and 
reimbursement for families in need of new furniture and other 
necessities. We are thankful that the City of New York quickly 
made available a newly constructed affordable property in the 
Bronx called La Central. To date, more than 95 families have 
applied to the new building, 66 families have signed leases, 
and 58 have already moved in.
    CVR is continuing to work with each family to identify 
housing that meets their needs in the neighborhood or community 
of their choice and on a timeline that works for them.
    Looking forward, we must work together at all levels of 
government to strengthen public and affordable housing 
protections before another tragedy can strike. The construction 
and maintenance of subsidized housing in this country is a 
multilayered collaboration between Federal, State, and local 
agencies that crosses urban and rural areas. Within this 
ecosystem, one of HDR's primary roles is to ensure that 
building owners comply with Federal guidelines and 
requirements. As the affordable housing agency for the State, 
we administer several programs, including HOME, CDBG, Section 
8, as well as 4 percent and 9 percent low-income housing tax 
credit programs. We provide fiscal, regulatory, and physical 
oversight of these buildings. We are required to conduct 
ongoing compliance visits in accordance with the Federal rules 
by inspecting units in federally subsidized properties to 
confirm that owners are meeting those Federal standards.
    We take our responsibility of making sure that building 
owners comply with these requirements very seriously. The 
tragic fire is a clear signal that we must do more. Our 
constituencies are depending on us all, Federal agencies, State 
agencies, and local agencies, to identify and implement new 
ways to mitigate safety risks and to enhance health and safety 
requirements for public and affordable housing. As part of 
this, New York State urges Congress to advance some key 
measures.
    One, increase Federal funding specifically for safety 
inspections, as well as funding to support new technology-based 
infrastructure between local, State, and Federal partners to 
better ensure compliance monitoring.
    Two, improve subsidized and affordable housing through the 
$150 billion proposed Federal investment from Build Back Better 
to address the massive backlog of public housing capital needs 
and improve conditions for tenants in all affordable housing.
    Three, require that space heaters be produced and sold with 
automatic shut-off switches.
    Four, work with industry experts to determine the efficacy 
and affordability of heat sensors in subsidized multifamily 
buildings to increase building safety.
    And lastly, create a commission with owners, tenants, State 
agencies, and local code enforcement entities to examine, 
change, or update the HUD inspection protocols.
    Local perspectives are critical, as it is the local 
entities and tenants who are most aware of the unique features 
and the challenges of the housing stock in their own 
communities. We must work together to keep our low-income 
households, our seniors, our veterans, and our vulnerable 
populations free from the risk of tragedy in their homes. While 
we have been doing this for decades, there is still much more 
to be done. HDR stands ready to work with our partners towards 
systemic as well as practical measures at both the Federal and 
the local level that will increase the safety of buildings and 
better protect the individuals and families who reside in 
affordable housing across this State.
    I thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I 
welcome your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Visnauskas can be found on 
page 57 of the appendix.]
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much, Ms. Visnauskas.
    I will now recognize myself for 5 minutes for questions.
    Ms. Kavanagh, when I grew up in public housing back in the 
Cro-Magnon era, the issue of self-closing doors was nothing. 
Nobody said anything about doors self-closing, you know? We 
just made ourselves vulnerable based on what we know today. And 
following the 2017 fire that claimed the lives of 13 people in 
a Bronx high rise, the City Council passed a law requiring 
self-closing doors in all buildings with three or more 
apartments.
    Can you explain the function of self-closing doors as it 
relates to reducing fatalities and property damage during a 
fire emergency?
    Ms. Kavanagh. Sure. I would say that I would also recognize 
that is not something I knew growing up either, and that is why 
public education is very important to us and to me personally. 
I don't think it is a given. We would like it to be. We would 
like it to be like stop, drop and roll is, something we all 
learned so often as kids we don't even know where we learned it 
but it is just there. That is what we want, ``close the door,'' 
to be common, so that is what we are working towards.
    But the reason is actually quite simple. It contains the 
fire to either the apartment or even the room within the 
apartment. And I think that is why this is important to 
emphasize even as we increase enforcement for self-closing 
doors, because in some cases we may be talking about an 
interior door to the bathroom or a bedroom that you could close 
and it would contain the fire to that room, and thus contain 
the smoke to that room. And as you have heard, in this fire, 
smoke was the cause of the deaths, not fire. And so, it is as 
simple as containing the fire to as small an area as possible.
    Chairman Cleaver. But the malfunctioning doors did 
contribute?
    Ms. Kavanagh. Correct. In this case, the doors did not 
close in a number of areas, not only in the apartment but in 
some of the hallways as well.
    Chairman Cleaver. Do they require some constant 
maintenance? Is there a process by which the Fire Department or 
some City Government agency checks the buildings to see if 
there is, in fact, compliance?
    Ms. Kavanagh. Yes. The Fire Department checks common areas, 
and this is one of the things we check, self-closing doors. 
HPD, our partner agency, is the one who inspects interior doors 
in apartments, so that is not something that we check. But both 
agencies have that in their inspection protocol. I am not sure 
about the maintenance. I am not an expert in self-closing 
doors. But what I would say is there can be a few causes. It is 
not always that the same part of the door might malfunction. 
Things like putting down a new layer of flooring could cause a 
door to get stuck open, which isn't about the hinge 
malfunctioning. That is why it is very important to check 
frequently.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Carrion, in 2016, the Housing Opportunity Through 
Modernization Act (HOTMA) was signed into law. HOTMA made a 
number of changes to statutes that govern HUD programs, 
including the establishment of minimum heating standards for 
HUD-assisted dwelling units. Residents in public housing have 
continued to raise concerns about the temperature of units and 
at times reported using equipment such as portable space 
heaters or leaving ovens open to stay warm.
    How does New York City ensure that housing units meet these 
temperature requirements to comply with both Federal and local 
laws?
    Mr. Carrion. Mr. Chairman, the New York City Department of 
Housing Preservation and Development is responsible for 
inspecting all of the multifamily, privately-owned residential 
buildings in New York City. There are approximately 825,000 
residential buildings in New York City, and approximately 
212,000 of those are multifamily, privately-owned buildings, 
which is an incredible amount of real estate and an incredible 
amount of housing units.
    We have a proactive and a reactive system. On the reactive 
side, it is what every smart municipality does, which is you 
create a system where people are able to file complaints and 
then you respond to those complaints. We have a corps of 
inspectors. We are budgeted for 429 inspectors in our agency. 
We currently have 287, so we are short about 142 inspectors. 
But we are responsible for going out there and responding to, 
in the case of Fiscal Year 2021, in excess of 500,000 
complaints that came in, and we did 630,000 inspections in just 
one fiscal year and issued 620,000 violations, many of them 
heat-related.
    But we have a nine-point system, and I want to put it into 
context, because every time we go out, we check for health and 
we check for fire. We check for lead, mold, carbon dioxide 
detectors, mice and roaches, double cylinder locks, smoke 
detectors, illegal gates, and self-closing doors. We also 
answer heat and hot water complaints.
    So, there is a constant drumbeat of inspecting properties, 
residential properties throughout New York City, to ensure that 
folks have heat, and there is a system of violations where 
those violations need to be corrected almost immediately. There 
is a clock on those. We are constantly chasing this challenge.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much for your response.
    The gentleman from New York, Mr. Torres, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Torres. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    We know that if the self-closing door had been properly 
functioning at Twin Parks North West, the smoke would have been 
contained and countless lives would have been saved.
    Local law requires landlords to install and maintain self-
closing doors. In addition to HPD, the housing department, both 
the buildings department and the Fire Department, have the 
authority to issue violations relating to self-closing doors; 
is that correct? And these violations are adjudicated by the 
Environmental Control Board, which as of 2020 had $1.5 billion 
in uncollected fines. The inability to collect fines raises 
serious questions about the effectiveness of the City's 
mechanism for enforcing the self-closing door mandate, hence 
the need for Federal intervention.
    My question to the HPD Commissioner is, if there were a 
Federal mandate for self-closing doors, and if you had the 
authority to suspend a Section 8 payment to a landlord based on 
a violation of that mandate, would that provide the City of New 
York with a powerful enforcement tool?
    Mr. Carrion. Thank you, Representative Torres. We passed, 
and you were in the City Council when it happened, a local law 
making the self-closing door a life and safety emergency repair 
required condition that needed to be corrected within this 21-
day period that is in the local law. That is a very important 
step toward addressing this problem. The housing quality 
standard at the Federal level still does not have the self-
closing door as a requirement, and other agencies can speak to 
this. We are encouraged by the fact that in our conversations 
with HUD, they are moving in that direction, with an expected 
date of requiring self-closing doors of September 2023. We are 
encouraging that that happens sooner rather than later.
    Mr. Torres. And that would enhance your ability to 
enforce--
    Mr. Carrion. That would create a Federal backstop. It would 
show the Federal commitment to this important issue.
    Mr. Torres. You spoke about intensified enforcement. Do you 
have data on the number of--since the fire in Twin Parks North 
West, how many inspections has the City conducted? How many 
violations has the City issued in relation to self-closing 
doors?
    Mr. Carrion. It is an interesting phenomenon. I think it 
points to the need for us to educate the public because of that 
huge number of violations that we issued, 620,000. Less than 
about three-tenths of 1 percent, or 99.7 percent of the 
violations issued were not for self-closing doors. We issued 
22,000 violations in one fiscal year. Eighty percent of them 
were cured, but the violations and the complaints don't quite 
match up.
    Mr. Torres. What about since the fire? How many 
inspections? If you don't have the data, can you get the 
committee that information?
    Mr. Carrion. I'm sorry. What was the question?
    Mr. Torres. The number of inspections and violations since 
the fire.
    Mr. Carrion. Oh, we can provide that. Certainly, for sure.
    Mr. Torres. As you know, the use of space heaters is often 
a cry for help, and a cry for heat. And when it comes to heat 
in the apartment, common sense dictates that the temperature on 
the inside should depend on the temperature on the outside. If 
the temperature on the outside is lower than the temperature on 
the inside, it should be higher to keep tenants warm. And yet, 
during nighttime, New York City law only requires the indoor 
temperature to be 62 degrees, regardless of the outdoor 
temperature. The outdoor temperature could be 50 degrees or 25 
degrees, or zero degrees. No matter what the outdoor 
temperature might be, the required indoor temperature at 
nighttime remains frozen at 62 degrees.
    Does that make sense? Does it make sense to have the same 
indoor temperature requirement for zero degree weather as you 
would have for 50 degree weather?
    Mr. Carrion. I am not a heat expert.
    Mr. Torres. At the level of common sense.
    Mr. Carrion. Right. Common sense tells you that you might 
want to be a little warmer than 62 degrees. I keep my home a 
little warmer than that.
    We have a heat season that starts in October and runs 
through the spring. We are coming up on that heat season, and I 
just want to take this opportunity to tell Congress that with 
your support, we could increase the corps of inspectors that we 
have, the army of inspectors that we have, the creation of 
affordable housing, the quality of that affordable housing, 
make it modern, smart heating, all the things that our agency 
is charged with doing, which is creating high-quality housing 
that is affordable to New Yorkers.
    Mr. Torres. It seems like you acknowledge that even if the 
landlord is providing the legally required amount of heat, what 
the law requires might fall short of what tenants would need to 
remain warm in their apartment. You acknowledge that at some 
level.
    Mr. Carrion. I think just as a human being, yes, not as an 
official.
    Mr. Torres. I am going to wrap up, but how often do HPD and 
HCR--both administrators of Section 8, a federally funded, 
federally regulated program but administered by local 
authorities--conduct Section 8 inspections of apartments in 
buildings? And are those inspections proactive or complaint-
based?
    Ms. Visnauskas. I will give you a rest. I will go first for 
a second.
    We go out annually for a project-based voucher. As a tenant 
base, we are going out upon lease-up. So, we are going out if 
the apartment turns over annually, and on the project-based we 
go out and inspect 20 percent of the units every year in those 
buildings.
    Mr. Torres. Annual inspections? How often? The Section 8 
inspections.
    Mr. Carrion. Yes. The bonus that the Section 8 voucher 
holder in New York City gets is that they get a lot more 
inspections from the City of New York than any other agency.
    Mr. Torres. How often are those inspections?
    Mr. Carrion. But the Section 8 inspections, I am thinking 
they are biennial for the housing quality standard. And if I am 
wrong, we can correct the record.
    Mr. Torres. Get back to us on this.
    Mr. Carrion. Yes.
    Mr. Torres. So, if I am a tenant with an HDR voucher, and I 
submit a complaint about inadequate heat and hot water, do you 
just wait a year in order to conduct the inspection, or is 
there a complaint-based inspection, and how long would it take 
to send a Section 8 inspector to my apartment?
    Ms. Visnauskas. If we find a heat issue on the inspection, 
to the extent it was a health and safety, it would have to be 
corrected within 24 hours. Otherwise, there's a 30-day for all 
inspections to be cured if they are not life and safety. But we 
also respond to tenant complaints proactively. So if a tenant 
calls us and complains, we would go out. We also would refer 
tenants to the City's 311, which is really the first line of 
defense for issues around heat and hot water as they are 
enforcing the housing maintenance code.
    Mr. Torres. And I am going to wrap it up.
    New York State and New York City have a confusing patchwork 
of inspections. There are inspections conducted under Federal, 
State, and local law: inspections conducted by HUD at the 
Federal level; each year at the State level; HPD/FDNY/DOB at 
the local level; there are inspections of public housing 
conducted by HUD; inspections of regulated housing conducted by 
HCR; inspections of all units conducted by HPD, and inspections 
of Section 8 units conducted by HCR, HPD, and NYCHA. This 
raises the question, does the left hand know what the right 
hand is doing?
    Suppose a New York City HPD inspector found a dangerous 
condition in a Section 8 rent-regulated unit. Would that HPD 
inspector automatically notify the Section 8 administrator--
say, HDR--about the dangerous condition in the Section 8 
building? Is there a system of automatic notification among the 
various inspectors?
    Mr. Carrion. The first level of responsibility is to 
contact the landlord, the tenant, start the clock on any 
especially emergency condition, and level the penalties 
immediately if the condition doesn't get corrected. I have been 
on the job for 8 weeks, so I am not entirely sure what the 
protocols are between our agencies in terms of sharing that 
automatically, but I am sure there is--
    Mr. Torres. I suspect there is no system of automatic 
coordination and notification. Is that correct, Commissioner?
    Ms. Visnauskas. Correct. I think in general, the first line 
of defense would go to the City. The City would ensure that 
violation is corrected. And certainly in the case of an 
emergency violation, immediately. But they would not 
necessarily notify us if they--
    Mr. Torres. The City is conducting inspections under the 
local law, whereas if you are a Section 8 administrator, you 
are enforcing housing quality standards under Federal law?
    Ms. Visnauskas. Correct.
    Mr. Torres. There should be a system of automatic 
coordination and notification among Federal, State, and City 
inspectors, and I will leave it at that. Thank you.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    The gentlewoman from Pennsylvania, Ms. Dean, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you, Chairman Cleaver, and Congressman 
Torres, for holding this hearing and for allowing me to 
participate. I thank all of our witnesses also for testifying 
today.
    First, my deepest condolences to the extraordinary loss 
that your entire community suffered, and, of course, that we 
all suffer after such a tragedy. The devastating fire that 
occurred at Twin Parks North is just unforgivable and 
preventable. So, I am appreciative of this hearing and the 
chance to listen and to learn from all of you.
    And while we are in the Bronx today, I wanted to shed light 
on what happened and what we can do differently in the future 
to avoid another Twin Parks North West.
    I wanted to take a moment to focus on a horrific blaze that 
occurred in our City, Representative Evans' and mine, 
Philadelphia, just days before your tragic fire. In the early 
morning hours of January the 5th, a fire broke out in a 
Philadelphia row house owned by the Philadelphia Housing 
Authority, killing three sisters and nine of their children. In 
fact, Mr. Chairman, I have an article from the Philadelphia 
Enquirer entitled, ``Remembering Those Lost in the Fairmount 
Fire,'' that I will enter into the record.
    Chairman Cleaver. Without objection, it is so ordered.
    Ms. Dean. My heart breaks for these families. They were 
loving mothers, aspiring students. One of their children was a 
2-year-old baby. Even more heartbreaking are some of the facts 
that have emerged around this fire, not that I am claiming to 
have expertise as to causes of fires, but it became clear 
through these tragic deaths in Philadelphia that they could 
have been prevented with greater safeguards, just like the 
things we are talking about today.
    In that property in Philadelphia, of the seven smoke alarms 
in the house, all of which were the kind that require a 
frequent battery replacement, four were in drawers, one was on 
the floor without batteries, one was on the ceiling without 
batteries, and a final alarm was working but located in the 
basement.
    I have entered some legislation around smoke detectors in 
federally assisted housing, and to authorize $2 million for 
public awareness campaigns on health and safety.
    My first question really is for Ms. Clayton. I am so sorry 
for the loss and the trauma you have suffered. Can you talk 
about your experience as a resident in the tower in terms of 
the property maintenance, in terms of responsiveness to 
complaints by residents of health and safety problems?
    Ms. Clayton. Thank you. In response to maintenance, I have 
put in a number of complaints about the heating. They will come 
and they will look, because we have baseboard heaters. And they 
call themselves blowing it out or whatever, because I don't 
know what they are doing, okay? So it gets warm for maybe a 
day, and we are right back to my normal, putting on my portable 
heaters.
    Ms. Dean. And that was a common lot within your properties; 
is that correct?
    Ms. Clayton. Yes.
    Ms. Dean. I have dealt with this at the local level here 
with private housing, not federally assisted housing, but the 
same kind of thing where the property owner responds, puts a 
temporary fix, and really never answers the questions around 
health and safety.
    Mr. Carrion and Ms. Visnauskas, what are some of the 
barriers to ensuring that every affordable housing unit has 
fully-functioning smoke detectors, for example?
    Ms. Visnauskas. I would say--thank you for the question--
that we are very vigilant in our inspections around smoke 
detectors, and even in places where they are not always 
required when we are doing work in buildings, making sure they 
are being installed in the case of preservation and 
rehabilitation work. I think in general there is a New York 
State, and perhaps similar in some parts of Pennsylvania as 
well--the housing stock is very old and it is very much in need 
of investment. And I think at the New York State and New York 
City level, we have made incredible investments in terms of 
capital into the housing stock, but we need more. And we have 
been fixed certainly from the perspective of Federal resources, 
whether it is Section 8 vouchers or low-income housing tax 
credits, tax-exempt volume cap, these resources are the 
backbone of the work that we do to invest in the existing 
housing stock in this State, and we need more of them, and we 
need more of them by a large stretch, and they have been 
somewhat stagnant for a decade or more.
    So, I think it is incumbent on all of us to keep pressuring 
and asking for resources like what was proposed in Build Back 
Better so that we can exponentially increase the amount of 
investment we are making into the existing housing stock to 
make sure things like smoke detectors that are in older 
buildings, where they may not be hardwired or may not be 
properly functioning, are made safe for all the residents who 
live there.
    Chairman Cleaver. Congresswoman, we may have another round 
of questioning.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you. I appreciate those answers, and I 
yield back.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania, 
Mr. Evans.
    Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for inviting me to 
participate in this critical field hearing. My congressional 
district encompasses parts of the City of Philadelphia, where 
in January, as Congresswoman Dean stated, we lost 12 Fairmount 
residents in a fatal house fire. Eight of those who died were 
children. Our community remains devastated.
    But I also appreciate HUD and the House Financial Services 
Committee for investigating this particular tragedy, and I 
thank Congressman Torres for taking the leadership that he is 
showing, since this is obviously not just a problem in New 
York, but one that faces our nation.
    In the Philadelphia fire, the four smoke detectors were not 
functioning. The 3 stories and 2 apartments housed 26 people. 
People do not settle for unsafe housing when they have better 
choices, but our nation has done little to provide financial 
stability and housing support for Black and very low-income 
families. They live in places where they are exposed to serious 
hazards, and it is important that we address it.
    I look forward to working with Mr. Torres on the Financial 
Services Committee, and with HUD on Federal policies relating 
to financial strategies, particularly for federally assisted 
properties.
    The site of the fatal Philadelphia fire was old. But, Ms. 
Kavanagh, does much of our nation's pre-1992 public housing 
stock meet the standards under the Fire Administration 
Authorization Act?
    Ms. Kavanagh. I can't speak to that Act specifically, but I 
can say that the newest constructed housing is the safest. It 
is built under the newest codes and has the most safety 
protections.
    Mr. Evans. What would you suggest in terms of policies 
around smoke detectors, involving safety conditions in 
federally assisted housing, to prevent similar tragedies from 
occurring?
    Ms. Kavanagh. I think when it comes to smoke detectors, as 
my colleagues have referenced, things like hardwired detectors 
are the safest. It means they are less likely to fail, run out 
of battery, or even be able to be disabled for a number of 
reasons. But in the absence of hardwired detectors, we strongly 
encourage and run many of our own programs and give away, as 
you heard, thousands of smoke alarms every year to ensure that 
those residents who need them have them, especially maybe those 
who can't afford them, or seniors who may not be able to put 
them up when they fail. So, we run a whole program around that, 
about getting detectors into the homes where they are needed.
    Mr. Evans. How could Congress and building owners improve 
safety measures and reduce fire risk?
    Ms. Kavanagh. I think many of the things that we have 
discussed here, many of the things that were in the Mayor's 
Executive Order will help from the top down. But we continue as 
a department to also work, and certainly the departments in 
your cities would probably love to do the same or already are 
doing the same work from the community level as well, to help 
residents know about their lived experiences in buildings and 
respond to those specific conditions and get them the materials 
that they need and the detectors that they need in their homes.
    Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back the 
balance of my time.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Evans.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr. 
Espaillat.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Chairman Cleaver, and I also 
thank my colleague, Congressman Torres.
    Much has been said about the tragic fires in the Bronx. The 
Bronx seems to be the borough that in the past decades has 
witnessed and suffered tremendous tragedies with fires. Other 
neighborhoods in the City also have a similar housing stock and 
also suffer tragedy in fires.
    The Fire Administration Authorization Act of 1992 requires 
the installation of fire sprinklers in high-rises. Obviously, 
much of the housing stock has been built before that, and 
probably a lot of the housing stock is currently not meeting 
those safety standards established by the Fire Administration 
Authorization Act.
    I believe very strongly that prevention is driven by 
inspection and education. Commissioner Carrion, how many 
inspectors does HPD have?
    Mr. Carrion. Thank you, Congressman. We are currently 
budgeted for 429 inspectors, and I think, before you arrived, I 
mentioned that we have approximately 825,000 residential 
buildings in New York City, and 212,000 or so multifamily 
buildings. We currently have 287 inspectors, so we have 
vacancies. We have had severe attrition, so we are trying to 
backfill those vacancies. Those are positions that are 
budgeted, but we need to backfill them.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you.
    Commissioner Kavanagh, how many fire inspectors do you 
have?
    Ms. Kavanagh. We do inspections two ways. We have fire 
protection inspectors who work out of headquarters and a few of 
our district offices. There are approximately 300 of those. 
Much like HPD, we have suffered, especially under COVID, some 
attrition, unfortunately, the loss of some inspectors, but we 
are hiring again now. But our field units are fire field units 
who also inspect buildings in their administrative units. And 
we have done approximately 40,000 of those in 2021 by field 
units.
    Mr. Espaillat. Commissioner Visnauskas, how many inspectors 
do you have?
    Ms. Visnauskas. Housing inspections around the State are 
generally handled by the local housing agency.
    Mr. Espaillat. How many do you have for New York City?
    Ms. Visnauskas. We have about 50 inspectors who do 
inspections in our asset management portfolio, but we also have 
a series of administrators who are responsible for our Section 
8 buildings, and they have inspectors that they hire. I don't 
have the full number for--those would really be the inspectors 
that are covering all the Federal, the Project-based Section 8 
federally subsidized portfolio. They are not centralized State 
staff. They are contractors that we use, so I can get back to 
you with that number.
    Mr. Espaillat. It seems to me that given the conditions of 
the housing stock in the Bronx and in other neighborhoods of 
the City of New York, the very dilapidated, unsafe conditions 
of the housing stock where families live, obviously, that we 
don't have enough fire inspectors. And again, prevention is 
driven by inspection and education.
    And so, Mr. Chairman, we must see how we can assist local 
authorities, but also I think that the local authorities have 
the responsibility, also the budgetary responsibility, to see 
how much more they put in their budget to hire additional 
inspectors.
    The second issue is education, because there is a direct 
connection between education and fire safety. I remember 
speaking to Commissioner Kavanagh about this issue. I know that 
in this building, in the Twin Parks building, many of the 
families were immigrants, and this is a City that is very 
diverse. People come from different countries, they speak 
different languages, they have different customs.
    How diverse, Commissioner Kavanagh, is the fire safety 
education initiative program within the City? Is it bilingual? 
Trilingual? Do we connect it to the Russian community in 
Brighton Beach, the Chinese community in Flushing, the Mexican 
community in a barrio, to the Dominican community in the Bronx, 
to the African-American community in Harlem and in the Bronx? 
How do we address the bilingual and cultural competency needs 
of fire safety, and do we have a reliable program that will 
educate tenants to take the measures that they need to take to 
save their families?
    Ms. Kavanagh. We do have everything you mentioned. We do 
have bilingual and trilingual fire safety educators. We have 
also implemented local field units going and doing education 
themselves, and one reason that is so significant is that the 
department, as it has diversified, has given first priority to 
where a firefighter works, to the neighborhood they grew up in. 
And what that also means is that in neighborhood schools, if 
you are getting it from your local company, you are far more 
likely to be getting somebody who grew up in that neighborhood, 
likely speaks the same language as you, maybe comes from a 
similar cultural or religious background, and we think that is 
really important. So, we are doing all of those things. Our 
website also comes in every language imaginable, so you can 
download materials in any language you need.
    But I would say I think one of the things that has been 
significant in the wake of this fire, and that the Adams 
administration has done for us is taking down the silos between 
agencies and trying to engage the community significantly more. 
As a community organizer myself, I really believe that 
education is not just about handing out literature, and no 
matter how many languages you have it in, it really is about 
understanding the local community and engaging it from the 
ground up, and so you are seeing a lot more of that. The 
connections with clergy following this fire have been very 
important, and the connections, I think particularly in the 
local schools, where many of the children of these immigrants 
attend and are bringing back information to their parents.
    Mr. Espaillat. Mr. Chairman, if I may just conclude, this 
is a huge undertaking. I cannot guarantee that we have the 
tools in place to prevent this from occurring again. Just the 
number of properties across the City and the condition that 
they are in, the dilapidated, abandoned condition that they are 
in requires a robust effort to inspect and to educate, and I 
think requires a major investment.
    Mr. Chairman, I look forward to working with you and 
Congressman Torres and the committee to see how we can assist 
the City of New York, and particularly the Bronx, the Borough 
of the Bronx, in this endeavor.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    I am not sure if Mr. Green from Texas is on the platform or 
not.
    Mr. Green. Mr. Chairman, can you hear me?
    Chairman Cleaver. Yes, we can, but we cannot see you.
    Mr. Green. Okay. Well, I am showing on my camera. I am so 
sorry. I am mobile at this time and I see myself in the camera, 
and I obviously can hear what is going on at the hearing and 
see it. But if you can't see me, I will understand and I will 
simply say that I appreciate you having the hearing and I look 
forward to doing all that I can to help you with the remedies 
that are necessary.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. 
Green.
    We are going to have another round of questions. We will 
give each Member 2 additional minutes to ask a question, and 
then I am going to do something I was told not to do.
    But we will now start the second round, and I would open 
the second round of questioning by asking Ms. Gibson if you can 
explain to me--and maybe everybody else knows it--how the 
tenant organizations can help articulate the problems to people 
in positions of government and how the tenants can become the 
eyes and ears that take in information and then give it to the 
proper sources.
    Ms. Gibson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question. For 
us, the tenant and tenant leaders and organizations on the 
ground are credible messengers. They have the ability to 
connect and communicate with many of the residents. Oftentimes, 
they have a continuity of relationships. And what we have 
learned in the days of Twin Parks is that there are credible 
messengers on the ground, organizations like the Gambian Youth 
Organization (GYO), and the Muslim Community Network. Many of 
our Muslim leaders and other community leaders of different 
faiths have really come together and really surrounded these 
families with love and support. And of course, the first 
priority was to guarantee that there would be hotel 
accommodations in the immediate days after January 9th, and 
now, weeks later, we are still working to accommodate long-term 
relocation efforts for the families.
    But what we have also learned and what you typically will 
learn in the event of these types of tragedies is that there 
are many families in our City and in our State who are doubled 
and tripled up. You have many families with multiple children, 
large families who are living in apartments that are not 
conducive to their household size.
    What we have been able to do on the ground with 
organizations like BronxWorks and CVR is a lot of intensive 
case management, understanding the household needs, the 
household size, and the household incomes. There are working-
class families in this building where many of the families had 
working income, and so many of them need to be accommodated as 
well.
    Working with a lot of our tenant organizations like GYO and 
others, we have been able to understand a lot of the very 
unique needs of many of these families, immigrant families who 
come from so many different places, parts of West Africa, the 
African American and the Latino community. We have been able to 
really navigate and help understand what they are going through 
every day.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much.
    My 2 minutes are up, but we are going to try to get Mr. 
Green from Texas on. If you can't see him, I am describing him 
as a very handsome, youthful man, athletically built.
    [laughter]
    Mr. Green, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Green. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for those 
very kind words. My mother would love you for that. Thank you.
    I do have a question. As you know, the American Rescue Plan 
provided some $20 million to fix the Fair Housing Initiative 
Program, and we have some $70 million proposed in the Build 
Back Better Act. My question has to do with safety and how this 
additional money could be a benefit.
    Is there someone who would like to respond to how an 
additional $70 million could help us with some of the issues 
that we are currently confronting? And I do want you to know 
that these issues touch our hearts, because people are losing 
their lives, and the title for the hearing is most appropriate. 
Would someone kindly respond to the question with reference to 
providing an additional $70 million to this program?
    Chairman Cleaver. Any of the panelists?
    Ms. Visnauskas. Is the funding specifically targeted to 
outreach, or is it another thing?
    Mr. Green. The funding is from the Fair Housing Initiative 
Program and is for enforcement with these new funds, to help 
you with enforcement.
    Ms. Visnauskas. I think I could sort of just table set and 
say I think we all believe on this panel that there is a big 
opportunity with our Federal counterparts at HUD to be better 
coordinated on communication. It certainly has been something 
from the Hochul administration day one, and down towards the 
Adams administration around better communication and 
coordination. I think funding with a coordinated strategy in 
New York City and really statewide around space heaters, around 
self-closing doors is really critical, and we rely on tenants 
to understand also when something isn't working, that they know 
whom to call and they know that they can report it. Oftentimes, 
people are afraid to report things that are wrong in their 
apartment, so sort of addressing that issue I think as part of 
an outreach plan would certainly be something that I think all 
of us at this table would be happy to utilize funding to really 
make sure people understand what type of enforcement is 
available and what their rights are.
    Chairman Cleaver. Mr. Carrion?
    Mr. Carrion. If I may, Mr. Chairman, just echo that to the 
Member, the good-looking gentleman from Texas, we would be 
deeply appreciative for an additional $70 million in Fair 
Housing Initiative funds that advanced safety in housing, both 
private and public. That is our challenge, doing that, and it 
is part of our mission to enforce the Fair Housing laws. We 
would deeply appreciate that.
    And let me say that, very quickly, one of the problems that 
we face here, going back to Congressman Espaillat's comment 
about education, is that we get so few complaints from certain 
pockets of the population, from certain buildings. The number 
of complaints for self-closing doors was infinitesimally small. 
And now, with the Mayor's Executive Order that brings the Fire 
Department and the HPD together to address this issue and 
enhance education, this $70 million would go a long way.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    Mr. Green. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am grateful for the 
time, and I yield back.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr. 
Torres.
    Mr. Torres. Madam Borough President, you have been in City 
and State Government for more than a decade, and City and State 
Government can be siloed, and I worry about a lack of 
coordination and communication among the inspectors at various 
levels of government. Not only is Twin Parks North West subject 
to the housing code and the fire code and the building code, 
all of which have their own inspectors, but the tenants have 
Section 8 vouchers from three administrators--HPD, HCR, and 
NYCHA--all of which have their own inspection regimes. So, the 
patchwork of housing inspections is often more of a cacophony 
than a symphony. Do you share those concerns?
    Ms. Gibson. I do, and I think it is important that we 
continue to work together and have interagency coordination 
from HUD, from HCR, from HPD, and from the Mayor's Executive 
Order making sure that there is more consistency on 
inspections. When you hear the numbers--and I agree with 
Congressman Espaillat--we need to make sure that we are at our 
budgeting capacity on all of the inspectors that we have at 
HPD, and HCR, as well as FDNY, because it is really important. 
Tenants feel a sense of calling 311 multiple times and not 
getting any response, or it taking days for inspectors to come 
out, and by the time the inspectors come out, those issues are 
sometimes corrected, and sometimes, they are not.
    I think that while we encourage New Yorkers to call 311, we 
have to make sure that there is a consistency on the inspectors 
that are coming out and that the agencies are actually working 
together. I think in all of these tragedies, because since Twin 
Parks on January 9th, we have had a series of other fires far 
less fatal where we have not had any fatalities, thank God, but 
we have had a lot of displaced families. We have had fires in 
Morris Park, in Allerton, in Parkchester, and in other parts of 
the Bronx, and we have a number of families right now who are 
housed in area hotels.
    And so, it has called into question not only the housing 
stock, the aging infrastructure of some of our housing stock, 
and the usage of safe space heaters that sometimes are not 
working and the faultiness of that, but also holding landlords 
accountable and making sure that they do the work that they are 
supposed to do. I agree that there has to be more coordination, 
and if we learn anything from Twin Parks, we have to learn that 
coordination is critically important in keeping affordable 
housing safe and essential for New Yorkers.
    Mr. Torres. And if I can squeeze in one more question to 
the Commissioners, what can the Federal Government do to create 
a system that enables all inspectors at every level of 
government to coordinate and communicate and talk to each 
other? How do we create more interoperability?
    Ms. Visnauskas. I certainly think HUD convening us for a 
conversation like that would be incredible. As you said, with 
the HQS inspections being done by NYCHA, by HPD, and by HCR, as 
well as other Federal inspection regimes, I think making sure 
they are coordinated across them all and making sure that we 
are all coordinated up and down the chain, I think would be 
great. As we come out of an important hearing like this with 
things to do to make things better would really be an important 
first step in that effort.
    Ms. Kavanagh. Yes, I would agree with that, and also say 
that this data sharing between agencies at different levels is 
really important. Obviously, we have increased our coordination 
significantly under the Executive Order with our fellow City 
agencies, but getting that coordination and that data--our 
inspection regime is based on a risk-based algorithm. So, the 
more data that algorithm has about the experiences of 
residents, about the violations at maybe other levels of 
government that we don't have, makes our algorithm more 
powerful. It means we are getting to the buildings most in need 
more often.
    Mr. Carrion. Congressman, I agree with those points made by 
my colleagues. We currently have task forces that we sit on at 
the local level that include the Department of Buildings, the 
Department of Investigations, the Fire Department, and the 
Department of Health and Mental Health, but that is at the 
local level. I think there is an opportunity for us to do it at 
different levels of government. When I served as HUD Regional 
Administrator, we convened locally the HCR Commissioner or the 
HPD Commissioner and the NYCHA Chair on a regular basis. That 
was just sort of a symbolic gesture at the time, and we tried 
to figure out how best to coordinate our efforts. But, in fact, 
at the national level across the many municipalities, the 
thousands of municipalities, if the Federal Government can step 
in and encourage and cajole that kind of activity, that would 
be very helpful.
    Mr. Torres. My time has expired.
    Chairman Cleaver. The gentlewoman from Pennsylvania, Ms. 
Dean, is now recognized for 2 minutes.
    Ms. Dean. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
    I will go back to something that Ms. Clayton said about 
warning systems, and that the fire alarm would go off so often 
as a false alarm in the building that they got to the point of 
not thinking it was an urgent call for the residents to get 
out.
    Commissioner Carrion and Commissioner Kavanagh, could you 
speak to the state of play in public housing in New York around 
smoke detectors, hardwired or not, functioning within the 
buildings or not, and what your inspections showed there, what 
percentage of our public housing stock has safe, working smoke 
detectors?
    Mr. Carrion. Congresswoman, thank you, and our condolences 
to you, from one city to another, on your loss on January 5th.
    Our army of inspectors goes out every day. They did so 
right through the pandemic, nonstop, and they check nine very 
important items: lead, mold, carbon monoxide detectors, mice 
and roaches; and then they do a four-point test on fire safety: 
double cylinder locks, smoke detectors, illegal gates, and 
self-closing doors. By the way, HUD is now looking to add to 
their housing quality standard. If any of those systems is not 
working, we issue a violation right away. And on the smoke 
detectors and self-closing doors, those are to be corrected 
immediately.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I see my extra time has expired. I thank you 
for offering that to me. I yield back.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania, 
Mr. Dwight Evans.
    Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I would like to ask the president of the borough the same 
question I asked Ms. Kavanagh. Do you have any suggestions in 
terms of saying to Congress, incentivize building owners to 
improve safety measures? What would you suggest?
    Ms. Gibson. Thank you for the question. I definitely think 
that increasing more inspections in federally assisted HUD 
buildings would be great. I think having the Federal presence 
on the ground is a critical part of this work. I definitely 
think that access to additional HUD vouchers will be great.
    What we have learned in Twin Parks is that many of the 
working families were not initially eligible for vouchers and 
many of them felt that they should be accommodated, although 
they have working income. But because of the trauma faced by 
the fire at Twin Parks--and they also think that there needs to 
be Federal intervention when it comes to the regulation of 
space heaters. Space heaters do not have automatic shutoffs, 
and sometimes, if you buy them in certain parts of our City, 
they are inexpensive but they are not necessarily the best 
quality. But families in our City are forced to use space 
heaters because of insufficient heat by their landlords and 
management companies.
    I think if we had access to additional vouchers, as well as 
more Federal oversight in terms of inspections of self-closing 
doors and the regulation of space heaters, I think that would 
be a great step of progress.
    Mr. Evans. Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr. 
Espaillat.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Following up on the borough president and space heaters, it 
almost seems like a natural thought to me, having represented 
districts with the highest concentration of rent-stabilized 
apartments, and now the highest number of NYCHA units, that any 
time there is a fire, almost my automatic response is there 
must be a space heater involved in it. And it comes as a result 
of lack of heat, and it is not usually on the cold days. On 
really cold days, you get the heat. It is on days like today, 
not too cold, and not too warm.
    Commissioner, could you give us the breakdown on what the 
regulations are of when landlords are supposed to provide heat, 
just a Heat 101 course?
    Mr. Carrion. Congressman, I wish I could do the Heat 101 
course. I will tell you in very general terms that our heat 
season starts in October and goes through the spring. I believe 
the temperature outside has to be below 55 for heat to be 
required, or something like that.
    Mr. Espaillat. Fifty-five for the heat?
    Mr. Carrion. I believe so. And again, the record might be 
corrected.
    Mr. Espaillat. So on a day like today, you are not getting 
any heat, but the temperature may dip down to 40 later on this 
afternoon.
    Mr. Carrion. Yes.
    Mr. Espaillat. I think there is a problem there. I get a 
lot of complaints from seniors and families that they are not 
getting enough heat, and I think if the day starts at 55 or 57 
degrees but it dips down to 40, at night it is going to be very 
cold, and they are going to turn on that heater, and that 
contributes to the number of fires. Is there anything that the 
City can do to regulate better, maybe increase the threshold 
for landlords to provide heat?
    Mr. Carrion. I will tell you, not just as a Commissioner, 
but also having served on the City Council and as Borough 
President number 12, that this is an ongoing debate. Is the 
threshold temperature at the right place, and are the dates 
correct? I am not prepared to address that as Commissioner, but 
I certainly am interested in coming back to the committee with 
some expert advice.
    Mr. Espaillat. Let me just conclude, Mr. Chairman, and say 
that it is rampant, the numbers of complaints that I get in 
NYCHA buildings and rent-stabilized buildings about a lack of 
heat on days like today. Something is wrong there, and I think 
that is forcing families to go to the local store and buy that 
space heater that will then potentially, because of the bad 
quality of the equipment itself, and other matters as well, 
contribute to these tragic fires.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    We now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green.
    Mr. Green. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman. I did not thank 
you appropriately enough. This hearing is most important 
because this involves multiple places, not just one city, and 
it is important also because we are losing lives. I don't know 
how we can allow what we see to happen and not make the kind of 
inquiry that you are making. So, I am eternally grateful to you 
for giving us this opportunity to address some of these issues.
    Having listened to the questions and heard the responses, I 
have one final commentary, and it is that I stand ready and 
willing to work with my colleagues. We have a number of pieces 
of legislation proposed. Having had an opportunity to peruse 
them in a very cursory way, I find favor with them, and I look 
forward to seeing us flesh them out so that they can become a 
part of the healing process, and this is a great opportunity 
for us to do some good. I look forward to working with my 
colleagues on this good agenda.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Green.
    Just as we close out this hearing--we normally don't do 
this, but, Ms. Clayton, is there a question that we did not 
ask? Is there a question that should be asked? Is there 
something that you want to know?
    Ms. Clayton. Thank you. My question is, why is it that it 
is only once a year that the buildings or the apartments are 
inspected? Me personally, I think they should be inspected at 
least 3 times a year.
    Chairman Cleaver. Anybody else?
    Ms. Visnauskas. It is a great question to ask, and I think 
that we would all say that I think we are in lots of buildings 
multiple times, and I think that in the case of this building, 
certainly for our inspections, we didn't have any heat 
complaints. And so, there is also sort of a disconnect I think 
on some level between the lived experience of the people in the 
building and what is showing up on the inspection reports, and 
I think that is a complicated issue to tackle about the 
efficacy or what is required in the inspections, if we did them 
more, would we get more, if we still got the same outcome or 
not in the right place.
    I think it is a great question to ask. I don't necessarily 
have an answer about doing it more as much as to sort of 
acknowledge that I think that there is a little bit of a 
disconnect in what we see when we go out there and what is 
actually happening, and we have to get at the root of that.
    And I also think it goes back to investment in older 
housing stock, and we just have to be making sure that we are 
making capital investments in multifamily buildings occupied by 
low-income households, by seniors, by children, and by every 
vulnerable population we have in this City, to make sure that 
they are living in safe, warm apartments. It is essential, and 
that is a big ask of the Federal Government and for State and 
locals to do that kind of investment, but it is really at a 
crisis point and we need it.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    Ms. Kavanagh. I think I would just second that, actually, 
and say that I think we had a good takeaway from this hearing, 
which is to meet with our Federal and State partners because 
the additional data, especially from the residents, can make a 
difference in how often we inspect a building.
    Mr. Carrion. And if I can just close out with this: We had 
the same experience. We have a lot of visits to buildings, a 
lot of inspections. You heard the numbers, and they are huge, 
620,000 violations, et cetera. But then we look at the history 
of a particular building and we find that there were 10 or 12 
heat complaints. And then, this fire happens.
    And so, I think there is an element here that is the tenant 
human element of maybe a fear of complaining for fear of 
reprisal that we are going to have to really deal with, and 
that is an issue for us to take up as we go forward.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ms. 
Clayton. Thank you for raising that issue. You are the person 
who is most impacted by the questions and the answers and the 
actions that are forthcoming.
    I would like to thank all of you, all of the witnesses, for 
your testimony today.
    We are going to take a 5-minute recess before the next 
panel, which is a panel from the U.S. Department of Housing and 
Urban Development (HUD).
    And let me thank all of the Members who are on the virtual 
screen. If you are able to stay, we appreciate it.
    But we will take 5 minutes to change witnesses. Thank you.
    [brief recess]
    Chairman Cleaver. --our first panel of testimony today. 
Next, we have Ms. Ashley Sheriff, who is the Acting Deputy 
Assistant Secretary with the Real Estate Assessment Center at 
HUD, who will be appearing as a technical witness for us today.
    As a reminder to our witnesses, you are limited to 5 
minutes, and without objection, your written statements will be 
made a part of the record.
    Ms. Ampry-Samuel, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
give an oral presentation of your testimony.

   STATEMENT OF ALICKA AMPRY-SAMUEL, REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR, 
 REGION II, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT (HUD), 
    ACCOMPANIED BY ASHLEY SHERIFF, ACTING DEPUTY ASSISTANT 
SECRETARY, REAL ESTATE ASSESSMENT CENTER, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING 
                     AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT

    Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you 
so much. Chairman Cleaver and members of the committee, I am 
honored to have been invited to address the Committee on 
Financial Services.
    Appointed by President Biden, I serve as the United States 
Department of Housing and Urban Development's Regional 
Administrator for New York and New Jersey. I was born in 
Brooklyn and grew up in NYCHA public housing, so the 
opportunity to address you all today on matters of safety in 
HUD housing is particularly personal. Prior to serving HUD 
Secretary Fudge and President Biden, I had the honor of 
representing Brooklyn as the City Councilwoman for the New York 
City Council District 41, which has the largest concentration 
of public housing in the country.
    Above all else, I want to first offer my condolences to the 
families of the victims of the tragic fire at Twin Parks North 
West and let them know that HUD continues to do whatever it can 
to support you in this time of grief and need. And thank you, 
Ms. Clayton, for sharing your story. No loss of life due to 
fires or other health hazards, wherever it occurs, is 
acceptable to us, and we grieve with you, and we are here to 
support you.
    While it is beyond our authorities to manage fire 
prevention in every home, HUD takes very seriously the role we 
play in fire and safety standards in HUD-assisted housing. As a 
former NYCHA resident, I am extremely passionate about carrying 
forward this work that is a top priority for Secretary Fudge. 
Although we can sadly not change the events that made this 
hearing necessary, I am here today to discuss the substantial 
work HUD is doing to make its housing safer in the Bronx, in 
Philadelphia, and in all communities nationwide.
    In March of 2020, HUD paused its health and safety 
inspections due to the risk of COVID exposure. In April of 
2021, Secretary Fudge announced that HUD would resume health 
and safety inspections of its approximately 35,000 multifamily 
and public housing properties on June 1st of 2021. Secretary 
Fudge set a bold goal for HUD of completing inspections of all 
multifamily and public housing properties by September 30, 
2023. I am pleased to report that since restarting inspections, 
HUD has inspected over 13,000 multifamily and public housing 
properties and is ahead of schedule for inspecting 100 percent 
of these properties by September 30th of 2023. This would be 
the first time HUD has done this in an approximately 2-year 
span.
    HUD has made tremendous progress to substantially improve 
its physical inspections across all HUD-assisted housing. In 
this effort, the National Standards for the Physical Inspection 
of Real Estate, known as NSPIRE, would emphasize resident 
health and safety and standardize inspection requirements 
across HUD's rental programs, as opposed to the two standards 
that are used today. NSPIRE also includes several new and more 
stringent health and safety requirements for smoke alarms, 
carbon monoxide detectors, fire doors, electrical systems, and 
infestation. NSPIRE would provide an opportunity for tenants to 
provide formal feedback about their unit's condition that could 
be used to prioritize inspections and address urgent concerns.
    For fire safety, NSPIRE standards would implement the 
National Fire Protection Association 72, which is the 
preeminent national standard for smoke detectors and fire 
signaling. It also would establish a minimum temperature 
requirement and require a permanent heating source, allowing 
residents to live more comfortably and be less reliant on 
supplemental heat sources.
    In conclusion, I thank you for your attention and 
dedication to keeping our HUD families safe. HUD shares this 
commitment, and we know that there is more that the Federal 
Government must do. Beyond inspections, much of the public and 
multifamily housing stock is in need of significant repairs and 
renovation. President Biden and Secretary Fudge stand behind 
House-passed proposals to significantly increase funding that 
will restore housing developments across the country so that 
people can live in safe, healthy housing of which they can be 
proud.
    On behalf of Secretary Fudge, HUD appreciates your ongoing 
support of NSPIRE initiatives; and as the new HUD Regional 
Administrator, I thank you for holding a field hearing in this 
community, my community, that has suffered such tremendous 
tragedy at Twin Parks North West. I look forward to working 
with you to serve this community. It was an honor to speak with 
you, and I am happy to answer any questions. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Ampry-Samuel can be found on 
page 40 of the appendix.]
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much, and let me 
congratulate you on your appointment to this significant 
position.
    I represent Kansas City, Missouri, and we are having an 
issue right now with one of our major developments failing an 
inspection. I want to just, if I can, spend my 5 minutes 
dealing with this issue of inspections. And I recognize that 
you have only been doing the job for a short period of time, 
but how many HUD-assisted properties received a failing score 
during their last inspection, and what percentage of the total 
HUD-assisted portfolio does this represent?
    Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that 
question. Because it is such a technical issue, I would like to 
have the Deputy Assistant Secretary, Ash Sheriff, respond to 
that question.
    Chairman Cleaver. Okay. Thank you.
    Ms. Sheriff. Great. Thank you, Chairman Cleaver, and thank 
you for the opportunity to be here today. It is an honor to 
participate in this hearing. And thank you for your attention 
to these issues.
    Approximately 5 percent, a little less than 5 percent of 
properties fail our Real Estate Assessment Center (REAC) 
inspections, at least based on the most recent REAC inspections 
conducted of both the public housing and the multifamily 
portfolios. Certainly, we at HUD view any failing property as 
problematic, and we want to get that number to zero percent 
ultimately, where we have no failing properties.
    But unfortunately, we do have failing properties, and you 
mentioned one in your community of Kansas City, Parade Park 
Homes East, which we are very well aware of, and certainly we 
want to do everything we can within our power at HUD in terms 
of both using our inspections as well as our other oversight 
monitoring and enforcement tools to make sure that we are 
raising the level of housing in our properties.
    Certainly, as has been discussed on the previous panel, as 
well as in this forum in the Regional Administrator's opening 
statement, HUD housing is in need of investment, and 73 percent 
of our housing was built before 1984, at least for the public 
housing portfolio, and declining investment in public housing 
results in declining physical condition. So, we work with our 
housing partners to help them do what they can to maintain safe 
and healthy housing, and the inspections are one part of it, 
but there are other components to ensuring that housing is 
safe, healthy, and of good quality for our HUD families.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you. Parade Park actually should 
have failed the REAC inspection. Had they passed it, I would 
have been here with another whole list of questions and issues 
and anger.
    But what happens when a housing choice voucher unit 
receives a failing inspection? What is the next step, and then, 
the next step?
    Ms. Ampry-Samuel. I am going to have to ask our Deputy 
Assistant Secretary to respond to that one too, because it is a 
very technical question.
    Ms. Sheriff. Sure, and thank you again, Chairman Cleaver. 
When a housing choice voucher unit or a voucher unit fails 
inspection, it depends on whether or not the unit is occupied 
at that time. Prior to a family moving into a unit, a housing 
quality standard inspection is required to take place. If that 
inspection results in a failed unit, the family is not allowed 
or the household is not allowed to occupy that unit. If it is 
one of, for example, the annual housing quality standard 
inspections that take place typically and a family is already 
in the unit, there are multiple requirements in place to ensure 
that unit is brought up to the conditions that we expect and 
meets our health and safety standards.
    First and foremost, they have to address the health and 
safety issues within 24 hours. That is a requirement across all 
of our inspection protocols. Where life-threatening defects 
have been identified, it is HUD's expectation that those are 
remediated as quickly as possible, and those need to be 
certified to either HUD or the public housing agency that 
administers those vouchers.
    For other defects, they typically have to be addressed 
within 30 days. If the defects, Chairman Cleaver, are not 
remediated in the timeframe specified by HUD, HUD has a number 
of tools at its disposal and works with its public housing 
agencies accordingly, and PHAs, and it is important to 
recognize that PHAs manage the contract with the owners and 
landlords of those units. But under HUD requirements, those 
PHAs could abate those housing assistance payments (HAPs) to 
owners/landlords, and that is a compelling way to bring about 
the changes and the remediation necessary.
    In extreme circumstances where the housing assistance 
payments have been abated, and these deficiencies have not been 
corrected, the PHA should terminate the contract and find an 
alternative rental unit for the family.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Green of Texas for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Green. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman, for your kindness 
and for your caring as well.
    I am most appreciative to you, Madam Regional 
Administrator, for indicating that you are sympathetic with the 
plight of persons who are suffering at this time. It means 
something to me to hear that come from you as an Administrator.
    I am concerned about the inspections, and I am appreciative 
that you are doing what you can through NSPIRE to improve 
standards. I think this is important, and I believe that the 
Fair Housing Initiative Program (FHIP), as I mentioned earlier, 
is of great benefit in this process. We have tried in Congress 
to make sure that FHIP is properly funded such that it can be 
of assistance to you. The Fair Housing Initiative Program 
allows for some help for you, help with enforcement. Can you 
just address how the Fair Housing Initiative Program, or Ms. 
Sheriff as the Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary, how this 
program helps you with the enforcement as it relates to these 
issues that we are confronting?
    Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Thank you so much, Congressman, for that 
question, and it is something that we discuss all the time. 
Entities that receive FHIP resources help people who believe 
they have been victims of housing discrimination, which 
includes when the protected group has limited access to high-
quality, safe, accessible housing. And on health and safety, 
FHIP organizations can play a critical role in raising 
awareness of emerging issues in communities to Federal, State, 
and local governments, as well as assisting with fair housing 
investigations that seek to remedy such concerns. Resources for 
FHIP entities allow them to advertise their services, and 
educate tenants on their rights, and all of these things can 
have a deterrent effect if there is something going wrong or 
potential wrongdoers.
    So, assistance and being able to get funding around these 
resources, in particular for the Fair Housing Initiative 
Program, is critical, and I am not sure if the Deputy Assistant 
Secretary wants to jump in, if I am leaving anything out, but 
this is very critical and needed, and this is something that we 
discuss all the time.
    Mr. Green. Thank you. I welcome any commentary from the 
Deputy Assistant Secretary if she has some.
    Ms. Sheriff. I think the Regional Administrator covered it 
very well, and certainly I will add with respect to inspections 
in particular that we believe what we are trying to do under 
NSPIRE is very much aligned with what we are trying to do to 
promote fair housing and fair housing outcomes for residents.
    We know that 66 percent of residents of public and assisted 
HUD housing are members of communities of color, and it is 
critical that their housing is as safe and decent and sanitary 
as the housing that is available to market-ready residents. And 
so, we have made that a priority of what we are trying to do 
with NSPIRE, and we have had resident workshops, and worked 
with our Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, and they 
have commented on our standards, and we believe that the lived 
experiences of those residents are absolutely critical to 
developing our NSPIRE standards and making sure that those 
standards promote housing that is fair and equal with other 
residential housing that is available to market-rate renters 
and owners.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much, Ms. Sheriff.
    And we will now recognize the gentleman who is responsible 
for requesting that we do this hearing, the gentleman from New 
York, Mr. Torres.
    Mr. Torres. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Regional Director Ampry-Samuel, before you were the 
Regional Director, before I was a Congressman, before Vanessa 
Gibson was the Borough President, we were all on the City 
Council and we passed a law that established a New York City 
heat sensor program. Heat sensors have the ability to monitor 
and report heating levels in apartments in real time so that 
you can hold landlords accountable for providing tenants with 
heat and hot water. During the heating season of 2020 to 2021, 
the HPD pilot program led to the installation of heat sensors 
in 26 buildings with a history of heat violations and 
complaints. Among those buildings with heat sensors, complaints 
fell by 56 percent. Among those buildings with heat sensors, 
seven buildings had one violation, two buildings had two 
violations, and none of the buildings had more than two 
violations. Indeed, one building had 500 fewer heat complaints 
than it did in the previous heating season.
    Given the success of the City's local heat sensor program, 
would HUD support the creation of a Federal heat sensor 
program?
    Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Thank you so much, Congressman Torres. 
And I just have to say in this quick moment of time that it is 
an honor to be in this position before you as a Member of 
Congress.
    HUD shares your commitment to fire safety, and I know that 
our HUD headquarters has been engaged with your staff, your 
team, and your committee as it relates to the proposed bills, 
and we all are working towards the same goals. And I have to 
say that with NSPIRE--and I know we have talked about this 
before--those standards also contain enhanced fire safety 
standards which address many of the issues that you have 
outlined, and we are doing that now. We have rolled out NSPIRE 
as a pilot program to be fully introduced by 2023 across all of 
our properties. And so, we are doing that under NSPIRE.
    But I can say that our staff, our team at HUD headquarters 
will continue to engage with your committee so that we can all 
be working towards the same goal.
    Mr. Torres. As you know, I have legislation that would 
require self-closing doors in federally funded affordable 
housing developments. But earlier, Commissioner Carrion from 
the New York City Housing Department, the Housing Preservation 
Development Agency, testified that HUD was moving in the 
direction of mandating self-closing doors as part of HQS 
standards by rule, by regulation. Is that accurate, and what is 
the timeline for finalizing such a rule?
    Ms. Ampry-Samuel. I will ask Ash Sheriff to chime in on 
that. But I did want to say quickly that there are, and I 
recognize just from your previous comments that there are 
several standards, safety standards. We have HQS, we have REAC, 
we have the UPCS. So again, with NSPIRE, it would be a way to 
make that more consistent across HUD-assisted and unassisted 
properties. But I will have the Deputy Assistant Secretary 
chime in.
    Ms. Sheriff. Thank you, Congressman Torres. We have greatly 
appreciated working with your committee, and we have evaluated 
the legislation through the formal technical drafting service 
process. You are correct that under the NSPIRE regulations that 
are proposed right now, we will be increasing the standards and 
including a requirement for self-closing fire doors, and that 
will apply to all HUD housing. So, it will apply to the public 
housing portfolio, the multifamily portfolio, and voucher 
units. Where our standards are not aligned today, NSPIRE will 
align our standards for all types of HUD housing, so that 
wherever you live, if you are a resident of HUD housing, your 
unit will be subject to the same, more stringent requirements 
that we are proposing under NSPIRE, and that includes for self-
closing fire doors, that includes--
    Mr. Torres. What is the timeline? Just to interject.
    Ms. Sheriff. Yes, I apologize. We hope to have NSPIRE 
implemented by the end of Fiscal Year 2023, September 30, 2023. 
However, I will say we are already conducting NSPIRE 
demonstration inspections and have done over 400 of those 
inspections so far.
    Mr. Torres. My time is actually running out, so I just 
wanted to check in. I pointed out earlier that government is 
heavily siloed. There is a patchwork of housing inspections at 
every level of government. I will take as an example Twin Parks 
North West. Not only is Twin Parks North West subject to the 
fire code and the building code and the housing code, all of 
which have their own inspectors, but the tenants have vouchers 
from three State and local Section 8 administrators--HPD, 
NYCHA, and HDR. And there is no system to ensure that these 
inspectors are coordinating and communicating and talking to 
each other.
    Is HUD willing to play a role in convening all of these 
inspection regimes in the hopes of creating a system that 
breaks down these silos and enables these inspectors to talk to 
each other?
    Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Congressman, I wanted to mention that 
Commissioner Carrion mentioned that when he was the Regional 
Administrator, he started these quarterly meetings, and those 
meetings have not stopped. And as the new Regional 
Administrator, I too will continue with those quarterly 
meetings so that everyone will be able to sit at the table and 
be able to discuss what is happening and work together towards 
the safety standards, and I have already started. I had my 
first meeting with HPD and HDC and the Mayor's Office, and so 
we are starting that, we started that about a month ago. And we 
are committed to making sure that we are having these quarterly 
meetings so that we can have a more consistent way of having 
safety standards for our residents.
    Mr. Torres. I see my time has expired. Thank you so much.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Congresswoman Dean for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, again for 
convening now this second panel to talk about these critically 
important issues to all of our communities. And I want to thank 
our public servants in HUD. Thank you for the extraordinarily 
important work that you do, and thank you for sharing your 
knowledge and experience and information with us today.
    I had talked with the previous panel about the twin 
tragedies: on January 5th in Philadelphia, the rowhouse fire 
killing twelve, three sisters and nine of their children; and, 
of course, the fire that we are more focused on today. I am 
wondering if HUD, following those tragedies within days of each 
other, had any emergency meetings or after-action items that 
took place as a result of these twin tragedies, recognizing 
that there are many other fires and other tragedies, but these 
were just so striking. Was there any action by HUD in response 
to the two fires?
    Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Thank you. Thank you so much, 
Congresswoman, for your question. Again, my condolences to the 
families in Philadelphia as well.
    There is a procedure at HUD when there are incidents to 
this level and we are talking about tragedy and disasters, 
these fires, that is something that is automatically flagged by 
our Secretary herself, and our Deputy Secretary. HUD reached 
out to the public housing agency in Philadelphia. HUD reached 
out immediately to folks on the ground in the Bronx, and we had 
meetings right away. But because I wasn't there at that 
particular time, I was not the Regional Administrator, I will 
ask the Deputy Assistant Secretary to step in. But I know that 
just from briefings today, we are still briefing every single 
day about the fires. There is a weekly meeting held to make 
sure that families are receiving the services that they are 
supposed to be receiving. But I will have the Deputy Assistant 
Secretary step in.
    Ms. Sheriff. Thank you, Congresswoman Dean. Yes, I was in 
my capacity at the time, and there were several emergency 
meetings immediately once we found out about both of those 
terrible tragedies, and I share my condolences as well. And we 
continue to meet on a daily basis about what we can do to 
prevent those types of tragedies in the future, in addition to 
providing kind of localized assistance to the families. We have 
started looking at everything that we can do from a health and 
safety standpoint, not just through NSPIRE, but are there more 
short-term things that we can do. We have offered assistance to 
the housing agencies that were involved in both cases, and we 
have even offered up our inspectors to come up and supplement 
inspections of those particular housing agencies.
    So, this is something we take very seriously. As the head 
of the Real Estate Assessment Center, I can honestly say that 
week was the worst week of my professional career. We take 
these issues very seriously, and we want to do what we can to 
prevent these types of tragedies in the future.
    Ms. Dean. I appreciate that. And something else I was 
thinking about in terms of your work and reviews of these 
tragedies and your assistance is the state of the art on 
sprinkler systems. We know, for example, in the Philadelphia 
fire, what I understand from reading and speaking to those on 
the ground is it was an extremely fast-moving fire, and had 
there been a working sprinkler system, it could have prevented 
some of that horror, maybe put the fire out well in advance. I 
get that fire sprinkler systems, retrofitting older buildings, 
is expensive, and I know in both public housing and private 
housing there are going to be property owners, landlords 
resistant to that. I have combated that at the local level in 
my own communities where a property owner is fully renovating a 
building but doesn't want to go to the expense of putting in 
sprinkler systems, as he or she should.
    I am a co-sponsor of legislation by Congresswoman Bonnie 
Watson Coleman, the Public Housing Fire Safety Act, that would 
create a HUD grant program for public housing agencies to 
install automatic sprinkler systems. I know my time is running 
low, but can you speak to that legislation and HUD's 
perspective on moving us into the next century and retrofitting 
buildings with sprinkler systems?
    Ms. Sheriff. Congresswoman Dean, I can answer that. We 
welcome any efforts and corresponding funding to retrofit HUD 
housing and bring HUD housing up to better physical condition 
with modern technologies like fire suppression systems such as 
sprinkler systems. And certainly, the aging/aged housing that 
we have in our portfolio is extremely expensive to retrofit. 
However, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be something that 
should be addressed. And if you look at the language of the 
1992 Fire Administration Act, it says that any new construction 
and/or substantially rebuilt construction should be built with 
these types of systems in place.
    Because HUD housing is old, and because we have not been 
able to keep up with the backlog of physical needs, it has been 
hard to do those substantial rebuilds that would be required. 
But certainly, those types of systems have proven to be 
extremely effective in protecting life in these circumstances.
    Ms. Dean. We will keep fighting for that, and I admire my 
colleague for putting forward the legislation.
    Again, thank you both for your work, and I yield back, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania, 
Mr. Dwight Evans.
    Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I appreciate HUD's effort to respond to the fatal fires in 
my congressional district in Philadelphia, and Mr. Torres' 
leadership that he has taken not just in his particular 
district but for what is occurring.
    To the Regional Administrator, I would like to ask you, can 
you explain the connection between Federal disinvestment, 
affordable housing shortages, and the increase in the fire 
risk?
    Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Thank you so much, Congressman, for your 
question. Yes, we know that far too many people with low 
incomes, especially people of color with low incomes, live in 
deteriorating housing, and affordable housing is scarce in 
Brooklyn and in Pennsylvania, and we must preserve whatever 
affordable housing that we absolutely can.
    President Biden supports increased funding to rehabilitate/
redevelop public and private affordable housing, and we know 
that was part of the Build Back Better legislation, which 
included $170 billion for affordable housing investments. But 
we also know that there is increased fire risk in older housing 
stock because safety standards have to be evolved, they have to 
be modernized, and that is what we keep talking about over and 
over and over, that even though we have this deteriorating 
housing stock, we need to make sure that our safety standards 
are speaking about the issues that we see today. And as we 
renovate or redevelop housing, we also bring that housing up to 
modern-day safety standards.
    So, more funding is needed. I can talk about that over and 
over and over, but that funding will help us to improve fire 
safety and other health and safety concerns for our residents. 
And there is a connection between Federal housing investments 
and fire risk, and we know that requires, like we have been 
talking about today, more funding and more modern safety 
standards.
    Mr. Evans. I would like to piggyback quickly, in your view 
or in HUD's position, what are the consequences of the Senate's 
failure to advance the Build Back Better Act on this critical 
housing investment?
    Ms. Ampry-Samuel. The consequences are a matter of health 
and safety, life and death. This hearing today is about tragic 
fires where there was a loss of life for children and families 
in two States. We need funding, and we share that commitment. 
We share that commitment in making sure that our units are 
safe. But it is definitely a detrimental impact if we don't 
have the funding that we need. And ultimately, when Congress is 
able to make substantial investments into affordable housing, 
we know that our families will be safe and this conversation 
around fire safety and folks dying because of it will be 
addressed. We need more funding, and the problem is if it is 
not addressed--it passed in the House and did not pass in the 
Senate, so we need more support. It is detrimental to life.
    Mr. Evans. I yield back. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for 
this hearing, and my colleague for his leadership. I really 
appreciate it, as well as Chairwoman Maxine Waters. But just 
having this discussion, I think is fantastic. I yield back, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
    Let me also thank Administrator Ampry-Samuel. Thank you 
very much. And again, congratulations on President Biden's 
appointment to you for this region. And, Ms. Sheriff, thank you 
very much for your participation.
    I would also like to thank my colleagues, Mr. Green from 
Texas, Ms. Dean, and of course the gentleman of great 
distinction from Philadelphia, Mr. Dwight Evans.
    And I would like to thank Maxine Waters, the Chairwoman of 
the Financial Services Committee, for her willingness to allow 
us to do this hearing. And I have to say that I have been 
around for a while, and Maxine Waters is about as close to a 
Tasmanian Devil as you can get when it comes to affordable 
housing. She is obsessed with it, which I love, which is why I 
am on this committee. And we were certainly given additional 
fuel when Mr. Ritchie Torres was appointed to this committee, 
and I am thrilled that he is here, and I am also thrilled that 
he asked that we come to the Bronx to deal with this issue that 
should be painful to every single American.
    Frankly, if we do nothing, I think we are guilty of 
whatever happens down the road. We need to move, and we need to 
move quickly, and that is one of the reasons I think this 
legislation that the President has put before us is extremely 
important. We have to approve that so that we can begin to deal 
with these problems.
    We can still do big things in the United States of America. 
We can still do those things. We have to put some pettiness 
aside and understand that you cannot sting and make honey at 
the same time. You have to choose what you want to do. I choose 
honey.
    The Chair notes that some Members may have additional 
questions for these witnesses, which they may wish to submit in 
writing. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open 
for 5 legislative days for Members to submit written questions 
to these witnesses and to place their responses in the record. 
Also, without objection, Members will have 5 legislative days 
to submit extraneous materials to the Chair for inclusion in 
the record.
    Thank you very much. This hearing is now ended.
    [Whereupon, at 2:27 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                            A P P E N D I X                           

                             April 20, 2022
                             
                             
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