[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                      THE ROLE OF YOUNG PEOPLE IN
                  FOSTERING PEACE IN NORTHERN IRELAND

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON EUROPE, ENERGY, THE 
                          ENVIRONMENT AND CYBER

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             APRIL 28, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-121

                               __________

        Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


       Available:  http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://
                            docs.house.gov, 
                       or http://www.govinfo.gov
                       
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
47-355 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                       
                      
                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                  GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York, Chairman

BRAD SHERMAN, California              MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking 
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey                  Member
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia	      CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida	      STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
KAREN BASS, California		      SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts	      DARRELL ISSA, California
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island	      ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California		      LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas	              ANN WAGNER, Missouri
DINA TITUS, Nevada		      BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California		      BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania	      KEN BUCK, Colorado
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota	      TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota		      MARK GREEN, Tennessee
COLIN ALLRED, Texas		      ANDY BARR, Kentucky
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan		      GREG STEUBE, Florida
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia	      DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania	      AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey	      PETER MEIJER, Michigan
ANDY KIM, New Jersey	              NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
SARA JACOBS, California		      RONNY JACKSON, Texas
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina	      YOUNG KIM, California
JIM COSTA, California		      MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida
JUAN VARGAS, California		      JOE WILSON, South Carolina
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas		      RON WRIGHT, Texas
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois              
                                   
                    Sophia Lafargue, Staff Director

               Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
               
                                 ------                                

       Subcommittee on Europe, Energy, the Environment and Cyber

              WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts, Chairman

SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania             BRIAN FITZPATRICK, 
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia             Pennsylvania,Ranking Member
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey		     ANN WAGNER, Missouri
THEODORE DEUTCH, Florida	     ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois,
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island	     BRIAN MAST, Florida
DINA TITUS, Nevada		     DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota	     AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
JIM COSTA, California		     NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas	             PETER MEIJER, Michigan
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois

                      Leah Nodvin, Staff Director
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               WITNESSES

Lynch, Mr. Michael, Chair of Trustees, Integrated Alumni.........     8
Savage, Mr. Cormac, Honorary President, Secondary Students' Union 
  of Northern Ireland............................................    19
Girvin, Ms. Courtney, MA, Conflict Resolution and Social Justice.    24
O'Lynn, Dr. Patricia, Executive Director, Politics in Action.....    33

                                APPENDIX

Hearing Notice...................................................    55
Hearing Minutes..................................................    56
Hearing Attendance...............................................    57

 
    THE ROLE OF YOUNG PEOPLE IN FOSTERING PEACE IN NORTHERN IRELAND

                        Thursday, April 28, 2022

                          House of Representatives,
                Subcommittee on Europe, Energy, the
                             Environment and Cyber,
                      Committee on Foreign Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m., in 
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. William Keating 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Mr. Keating. The House Foreign Affairs subcommittee will 
come to order.
    Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the committee at any point.
    And all members will have 5 days to submit statements, 
extraneous material, and questions for the record, subject to 
the length and limitation of the rules.
    To insert something into the record, please have your staff 
email the previously mentioned address or contact full 
committee staff.
    Please keep your video function on at all times, even when 
you are not recognized by the chair.
    Members are responsible for muting and unmuting themselves, 
and please remember to mute yourself after you finish speaking.
    Consistent with the House rules, staff will only mute 
members and witnesses, as appropriate, when they are not under 
recognition, to eliminate the background noise.
    I see that we have a quorum.
    I am pleased to be here. This is an interesting hearing, 
not just in subject matter, but in format. We are in the 
committee room, some of us live in the committee room; others 
of us are live in the virtual setting, both witnesses and 
members. So, we will work through any technical problems, but I 
do not anticipate anything of any great nature.
    So, with a quorum present, I will now begin the hearing, 
which is entitled, ``The Role of Young People in Fostering 
Peace in Northern Ireland.''
    I will now begin with my opening remarks.
    I want to thank you all for joining us today for this House 
Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Europe, Energy, the Environment 
and Cyber on ``The Role of Young People in Fostering Peace in 
North Ireland.''
    I believe this topic is especially important, as April 
marks the anniversary month of the signing of the Good Friday 
Agreement, an historic document that ended a violent time in 
Northern Ireland, commonly known as ``the Troubles.''
    Last year, we had a hearing focused on Northern Ireland 
where we invited Monica McWilliams and Jane Morrice, two 
representatives from the Northern Ireland Women's organization, 
to discuss the role of women in creation of the Good Friday 
Agreement. During their testimony, as the only group at the 
table represented by women from both sides of the tradition, 
our witnesses, Monica and Jane, discussed their contributions 
to long-term peacebuilding activities, including encouraging 
and development of integrated housing and education, as well as 
the removal of the peace walls that still physically divide 
communities in Northern Ireland.
    In addition, these women underlined the important role of 
the United States in supporting peace in North Ireland. They 
encouraged our committee to continue to focus on this region 
and play an active role.
    Based on the recommendations, and realizing the urgent need 
for renewed focus, Ranking Member Fitzpatrick and I wrote a 
letter to President Biden calling on him to appoint a Special 
Envoy to Northern Ireland. While this envoy has yet to be put 
into place, we have heard from the State Department that they 
will continue to consider its possibility, and we hope they 
will install a Special Envoy soon.
    Finally, these women who talked about the future and the 
need to provide greater opportunities to young people living in 
Northern Ireland, they believe that providing economic and 
educational opportunities to young people would further 
contribute to the development and prosperity of Northern 
Ireland, which I wholeheartedly agree.
    For decades, the United States has supported and developed 
young leaders globally. In Northern Ireland alone, the United 
States has continued to invest in peacebuilding by supporting 
groups like the International Fund for Ireland, as well as 
exchange programs like the George J. Mitchell Scholarship 
Program and the Washington Ireland Program.
    Through these initiatives, as well as the efforts of a 
variety of local youth organizations and non-governmental 
organizations, including those represented by our witnesses 
today, youth organizers and leaders have emerged with an eye to 
the future and are looking for the common solutions to age-old 
divides. Through these initiatives, many young people are now 
leading the change and remain focused on our efforts to 
establish trust among parties and to create common ground.
    Bearing these factors in mind, we decided to invite 
representatives from organizations focused on youth development 
and two youth leaders. All our representatives are leaders in 
their respective communities who have been able to coalesce 
with their peers, despite their varying backgrounds and 
traditions, among common goals and objectives. They have come 
highly recommended by long-serving leaders in Northern Ireland, 
and they are reach accomplished in their own right.
    Dr. O'Lynn, Mr. Lynch, Mr. Savage. and Ms. Girvin, we are 
honored to have you here today with us, and we hope that you 
share some of your personal experiences of growing up in 
Northern Ireland and how you view your region's past. We also 
hope you share with us the policy priorities, whether they be 
the environment, mental health, education, housing, justice, 
economic issues, and why, specifically, these are priorities 
that are important to you and the work that you do.
    Everyone listening, the Good Friday Agreement was signed 
almost 25 years ago, and has since ushered in nearly three 
decades of historic economic growth and relative peace across 
the region. Of course, there have been hiccups along the way, 
but the success of the Good Friday Agreement, and the 
opportunities provided to young people through greater economic 
cooperation, ease of travel, and technological advances have, 
undoubtedly, brought people closer together.
    I hope this hearing can highlight the successes and 
opportunities to ensure our witnesses' future and other future 
generations in Northern Ireland, that they have the opportunity 
to live together in peace and prosperity.
    I will now turn to the ranking member, Mr. Fitzpatrick, for 
his opening remarks.
    Mr. Fitzpatrick. Good morning.
    Thank you, Chairman Keating, for holding this timely 
hearing, obviously, an issue near and dear to both the chairman 
and my heart, both being children and grandchildren of Irish 
immigrants.
    And I want to thank the panel of experts for being here 
today as well and for the work that each and every one of you 
are doing to promote an integrated Ireland.
    And as I have stated oftentimes in the past, Ireland is a 
steadfast friend, a steadfast ally to the United States. Our 
political, our cultural, and our economic bonds were forged by 
young people of each generation as they fought to build a 
better world.
    And the first Irish came with William Penn, who established 
my homestead of Pennsylvania, and they stood shoulder-to-
shoulder as delegates in Philadelphia to sign the Declaration 
of Independence.
    At the height of the famine, the Irish diaspora brought 
millions to America for refuge. And once here, those young 
Irish, men and women, strove alongside a multitude of other 
immigrants of different races, religions, and creeds to create 
a nation that we are blessed to be here in today.
    And fostered by young people, the Civil Rights Movement in 
America helped inform and inspire a similar campaign for reform 
in immigration in Northern Ireland.
    And today, we stand again at a pivotal moment in our shared 
history. Despite the return of the devolved government in 2020, 
the institutions established by the Good Friday Agreement are 
under strain, as Chairman Keating had referenced. The economic, 
political, and cultural challenges which may threaten the 
stability of Northern Ireland cannot be ignored; it cannot be 
underestimated. As the next generation of Irish leaders turn to 
face these obstacles, the United States must work more 
diligently to support them.
    Our subcommittee on reaffirming the Good Friday Agreement 1 
year ago, it was there that I insisted that the administration 
move swiftly to fill the position of the U.S. Special Envoy for 
Northern Ireland to further American resolve for the 
preservation of regional stability and regional prosperity. 
This position remains unfilled, and as long as it remains 
unfilled, our government really forfeits the opportunity to 
engage all parties in conversations that would sustain the 
peace.
    Our diplomatic position toward Northern Ireland cannot be 
reactionary. I am grateful that our subcommittee has taken the 
initiative today to discuss these critical issues that are at 
stake for Northern Ireland.
    Again, thanks to all of our witnesses. Thank you for 
sharing with us your view about the role that the Emerald 
Isle's young people play in formulating the future and the 
steps that Congress can take to make the United States a more 
active participant in the peace process.
    Thanks for the panelists, Chairman Keating, and thanks, 
once again, for having our guests today.
    And I yield back.
    Mr. Keating. I want to thank the ranking member, and thank 
him for his longstanding support on this issue and the Good 
Friday Agreement as well.
    I do want to introduce our witnesses now.
    And I will ask unanimous consent that the written prepared 
statements of all of these witnesses be part of the record.
    And I would like to, first, introduce Dr. Patricia O'Lynn, 
who is the executive director at Politics in Action, an 
organization working to amplify youth voices in politics and 
encourage youth participation.
    So, I will now recognize Dr. O'Lynn for 5 minutes, although 
we are quite liberal in this for this hearing.
    And let's see if we have Dr. O'Lynn here.

STATEMENT OF DR. PATRICIA O'LYNN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, POLITICS 
                           IN ACTION

    Dr. O'Lynn. Thank you, Chairman Keating, for that warm 
introduction. And also, let me take the opportunity to thank 
Ranking Member Fitzpatrick, and your committee members, for 
inviting me to give testimony today.
    It is an honor and a privilege to have my voice heard on 
this important topic and, indeed, to speak on behalf of our 
youth community here in Northern Ireland. I hope it is not 
immediately obvious, but I can no longer be classified as a 
young person.
    But I would also like to take the opportunity to say I am 
filled with pride to share a panel with the other expert 
witnesses. Courtney is a former student of mine; Cormac played 
a leading role in setting up the organization, and Michael is 
an inspiration to every professional educationalist in Northern 
Ireland. And I agree the future is bright for Northern Ireland 
with these young people leading the way.
    According to the Northern Ireland Research and Statistics 
Agency, as of 2020, there were approximately 242,202 young 
people age 15 to 24 living, working, and being educated in 
Northern Ireland. Additionally, it is estimated that, roughly, 
600,000 young people have been born in Northern Ireland since 
the signing of the peace concord, a cohort who has since been 
named the ``peace generation,'' marked with optimism and hope, 
given that a great deal has been achieved in Northern Ireland 
since the peace concord was secured in 1998.
    Also, despite the global pandemic and the hardship brought 
with it, youth unemployment in Northern Ireland is at an all-
time low; academic achievement for this cohort continues to 
outrank the achievement rates in other developed nations, and 
more and more young people are moving into higher education and 
higher paid jobs than ever before. In short, there is much for 
young people to be hopeful about in Northern Ireland.
    Yet, in the week leading up to the 25th anniversary of the 
Good Friday/Belfast Agreement, collective youth rioting broke 
out on the streets of Belfast and further across the province. 
This outbreak generated cause for concern that the ongoing 
peace process may be more fragile than originally anticipated, 
given that such sectarian violence was spearheaded by the young 
people who were born post-cease-fire, and therefore, did not 
bear witness to the atrocities of the conflict here in Northern 
Ireland.
    During this week-long spate of violence, cars were set 
alight; a bus was hijacked and set on fire; petrol bombs were 
thrown; 88 police officers were injured; multiple communities 
were left with their property damage, and children as young as 
13 were arrested for riotous behavior. The gravity and extent 
of the violence was evidenced by the level of international 
media coverage received and the fact that commentators 
speculated how the riots were a result of collective youth 
efforts, and therefore, represented some of the worst unrest 
seen since 1998.
    Yet, how much these young people knew about Brexit, or, 
indeed, the Public Prosecution Service's decision about COVID 
breaches at a high-profile republican funeral was, indeed, 
doubtful, as was the extent to which these events drove their 
active engagement in riots.
    In the immediate aftermath of this violence, I was 
particularly struck by an interview given by a young male who 
was involved in the rioting. He explained that, regardless of 
how little he knew or understood about the current State of 
politics and related decisions, adults and leaders within his 
own community told he and his peers that a threat had been made 
to their identity; that the State could not be trusted to 
support them, and that if they did not defend their identities, 
they would lose them. It is this dangerous narrative of 
hostility and otherness which was bolstered by sinister 
paramilitary forces, encouraging youth onto the streets, in the 
hope that doing so would create a snowball effect, but also by 
much deeper and sinister forces leading to their wider 
disenfranchisement.
    [Audio malfunction.]
    Mr. Keating. Well, we need some of that young expertise and 
technology, I think, to do that, although Dr. O'Lynn was 
clearly near the end of her opening remarks. I hope that we 
have her connected for the questioning period that will follow, 
too, because she brought many important points, particularly as 
we will want to deal with our witnesses on why there was an 
uptick in this violence after the period of the Good Friday 
Agreement by a generation that really didn't have that 
connection.
    Our second witness I would like to introduce is Mr. Michael 
Lynch. He is the chair of trustees for Integrated--is it 
Alumni?--a charity working to provide a network for Alumni of 
integrated schools and develop support for integrated education 
in Northern Ireland, one of the most critical areas where we 
have had progress and great hope.
    And we know that he is not going to have any technical 
problems because he is right in front of us.
    So, I would to introduce for your opening remarks Mr. 
Michael Lynch.

   STATEMENT OF MICHAEL LYNCH, CHAIR OF TRUSTEES, INTEGRATED 
                             Alumni

    Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Chair Keating.
    And may I also extend my thanks and gratitude for being 
here today and in person. This is my first time visiting the 
United States, having landed in yesterday, and no better reason 
to come across the pond. So, I look forward to spending some 
time over the coming days to explore the Nation's capital. 
Particularly considering the indispensable contribution from 
the United States in our peace process over the last three 
decades, it has been long a personal aspiration of mine to 
visit the Nation's capital.
    I speak today as someone who cares deeply about the place I 
come from and someone who wants to do what I can to make it 
better. The conditions that were set out in the Good Friday/
Belfast Agreement have really laid the foundations for the 
society we live in today. As someone who has grown up, lives, 
works, and studies in Belfast and would be around Northern 
Ireland frequently, I can advocate that it is an amazing place 
to be. And compared to the generations that have come before 
me, I am very privileged to live and work in the society that 
we have today. With that said, it is still very evidence that 
we have lots of work to do, of which I will address one or two 
matters today.
    I am specifically here to advocate for one of those key 
policy areas, as, Chair Keating, you made reference to in your 
opening remarks. And one of those policy areas was also set out 
in the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement in 1998. And let me set 
the scene by discussing some of my own experience.
    I grew up on the edge of Belfast, then attended a school 
called Lagan College from 2007 to 2014. One of my most striking 
memories was my very first day at Lagan at the age of 11. All 
the new students were brought into the assembly hall together, 
and I remember sitting beside someone who came from an area of 
Belfast that I hadn't heard of before, a primary school that I 
knew was different. And I got the sense that the person that 
was sitting beside me probably had a very different upbringing. 
But, then, realizing in actual fact, that we were very much the 
same--nervously starting our new school journey. That is true, 
we were from very different places, but we were being educated 
in the same classroom together.
    Members, today, approximately 7 percent--that is 7 percent 
of those of school age in Northern Ireland--attend an 
integrated school. Moreover, a recent poll showed that 71 
percent of people in Northern Ireland think that integrated 
education should be the norm.
    I represent a group called the Integrated Alumni. We are a 
network of campaigners and supporters of integrated education, 
and we are primarily past pupils of integrated education 
talking to our own experiences. We are also a volunteer 
network, and we come from all walks of life. I work in a 
software company Monday to Friday, and we, indeed, all come 
from every walk of life--from hairdressers to lawyers--and we 
all have something in common: that we care about the place we 
come from and we want to make it better.
    Last month, a piece of legislation went through the 
Assembly. It was called the integrated education bill. The 
largest voices advocating for this piece of legislation was the 
members associated with the Integrated Alumni, our group of 
young, active citizens. And this is the same for so many other 
policy areas in Northern Ireland. That piece of legislation 
went through our Assembly, and we celebrated that and we were 
delighted that, after quite a substantive amount of effort, the 
integrated education bill was passed. However, I am still very 
skeptical and I am worried about the future. And let me explain 
a little bit why.
    The Good Friday Agreement set out to both encourage and 
facilitate integrated education. That same commitment was also 
set out in the Education Order of 1989, and again, it was set 
out in New Decade, New Approach commitments at the beginning of 
2020. That is alongside many other independent reports and 
independent reviews. But, still, to this day, the department of 
education in Northern Ireland has never established an 
integrated school. The 69 integrated schools in Northern 
Ireland were all set up by parents, supported by their 
respective communities.
    There is very clearly an unmet demand for integrated 
schools in Northern Ireland, but it appears that, really, the 
only substantive way to enact change is for people to take it 
upon themselves and do it.
    Our elections take place next Thursday, and that will 
dictate how long it might be until we have a new executive 
formed. There are, indeed, predictions that it could be up to 6 
months of negotiations, and there is a great degree of 
uncertainty that lies ahead.
    And it does worry me because this time 24 years ago, as, 
Chair Keating, you made reference to in your opening remarks, 
the people of Northern Ireland were presented with an option to 
endorse an agreement--an agreement that set out a very positive 
look to the future of Northern Ireland. But, again, that very 
provision, as set out in the Good Friday Agreement, to 
encourage and facilitate integrated education has still not 
been met.
    And at times like this, when our politics has been quite 
stagnant, it is young people that have really stood up to 
ensure that they are enacting the change that sometimes is left 
as a void within our politics.
    So, to conclude briefly, within our written evidence we 
have identified five key ways of incorporating how the United 
States can both support us directly and indirectly, which 
includes, indeed, the establishment of a Special Envoy to 
Northern Ireland. It includes enacting a civil forum, and as 
well, the continued support from the United States in ensuring 
that we have full implementation of all the principles set out 
in the Good Friday Agreement.
    Thank you very much, again, for the opportunity of being 
here.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Lynch follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Keating. Thank you very much, and I look forward to 
asking some questions.
    I think we have next--and the good news is I think, with 
Dr. O'Lynn, we will be able to reconnect with her after the 
opening statements are given.
    I would like to now introduce Mr. Cormac Savage. And you 
are the founder and current honorary president of the Secondary 
Students' Union of Northern Ireland, a union representing tens 
of thousands of students in schools in Northern Ireland. He is 
currently a freshman at Harvard, where he is studying 
government and Romance language.
    So, thanks for taking time out of school, out of your 
education, to do this, and I certainly look forward to your 
testimony.
    So, again, with some flexibility, we will welcome your 
words for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF CORMAC SAVAGE, HONORARY PRESIDENT, SECONDARY 
              STUDENTS' UNION OF NORTHERN IRELAND

    Mr. Savage. Thank you very much, Chairman Keating, Ranking 
Member Fitzpatrick, and Representatives, not only for allowing 
me the privilege to address you in this forum, but also for 
your continued passion and care for Northern Ireland and our 
peace processes. It is so, so warming, as an Irish person, now 
a resident in the United States, to see just how much the U.S. 
Congress really cares for our peace process. So, thank you very 
much.
    So, my name is Cormac Savage. I am 19. I am from a small 
town in Northern Ireland called Downpatrick, which is the first 
place our patron saint landed when he came to our island.
    And when I was 17, during the COVID lockdown, I founded the 
Secondary Students' Union of Northern Ireland. It is an 
organization which is for 11-to 19-year-olds in school. We are 
across community, and we choose to view our young people as 
neither Catholic nor Protestant, nor Unionist nor Nationalist--
just simply students.
    And that's exactly how I think peacebuilding and 
reconciliation needs to be in Northern Ireland. So, we are 
diverse and we are exactly what form, in my view, should take. 
We have fought for students on exams, mental health, and, in 
general, the coronavirus and how it has impacted a lot of our 
young people.
    We grew from 12 students to 50,000 in the space of a year, 
and I think that really shows how young people are really 
engaged in Northern Ireland to want to get in and make sure 
that they can make change of policy.
    So, a year ago, you heard from two inspirational women, 
Monica McWilliams and Jane Morrice. And they spoke to you at 
great length about decommissioning in Northern Ireland. And 
those two women are people I admire greatly, and that was a 
wonderful hearing.
    But today, our hearing is about young people and our 
perspective on the Good Friday Agreement, and I think that that 
means we have to take a slightly different tone. And I believe 
the tone we take today is the one we must continue to take, as 
we discuss the Good Friday Agreement.
    A year ago, you sat here and you heard Professor McWilliams 
and Ms. Morrice speak to you decommissioning guns. Now I think 
that approach needs to change for my generation. We require you 
to stop talking about decommissioning guns and start talking 
about decommissioning mindsets.
    So, the Good Friday Agreement predates me. It is 24 years; 
I am 19. It is, for a lot of the older generations, the end of 
a conflict. It is the culmination of 30 years of toil by people 
like John Hume who called for a peaceful agreement for a 
conflict that had ravaged our society. For me, it isn't the end 
of a conflict. It is the beginning of a reconciliation.
    I think that that is the shared story of a lot of our young 
people. So, what our young people will argue is that we need 
this new approach that does not answer--you know, for 
reconciliation--that does not answer bombs and bullets and 
peacebuilding, nor is it going to end in segregation and 
division, but bringing communities together.
    I have a very different experience of conflict than my 
parents. They grew up with bombs and bullets; whereas, I have 
grown up in the shadow of bombs and bullets, but absolutely 
free from their crossfire. And that is largely because of the 
Good Friday Agreement.
    The work of peacebuilding has happened. You know, we now 
must accept the challenge of reconciliation. And it has been 
really encouraging to hear from the United States a lot of the 
rhetoric around protecting the Good Friday Agreement, in 
particular, the Ad Hoc committee to Protect the Good Friday 
Agreement, which have done absolutely incredible work and have 
largely saved Northern Ireland from potential violence to the 
Brexit negotiations. So, I want to pay tribute to them, in 
particular.
    But there is one key thing that stems from the discussion 
around the Good Friday Agreement, in particular, in the United 
States, which is the best way to protect the Good Friday 
Agreement is to implement it.
    In April 2023, we are 25 years from that agreement, and 
still, we have no bill of rights. We are still fighting over 
Irish language rights in the Assembly. It is still going to be 
something that is talked about after our Assembly election. And 
our young people are still under segregated education. We still 
do not have civic forum. And we have still not had 
reconciliation.
    Integrating housing, integrated education are the stuff of 
dreams. These should be reality in Northern Ireland. They 
should become--as Michael noted, 7 percent of young people are 
in integrated schools. That was a commitment under the Good 
Friday Agreement, and no question that we need to ask, now is 
that how we protect the Good Friday Agreement? How do we 
implement the things that we agreed to 24 years ago as an end 
to our conflict?
    So, for my generation, that document wasn't the end. And 
that's what I really want all the Representatives to realize 
today, for my generation, that document represents a beginning, 
the start of a process of reconciliation. And the United States 
helped us start on that path, and I would like to see the 
United States help us reach our final destination.
    You know, I grew up in a very, very Catholic-majority time. 
I went to Catholic school for preparatory school and secondary 
school. And my sporting life revolved around the Gaelic Games. 
And then, I was, outside of school, a member of the Scouts. And 
a quirk of Northern Ireland is that, in scouting, we are 
divided in Scouting Ireland and Scouting U.K.
    So, if you can join the dots there, I didn't meet a 
Protestant until I was 14. I never had a meaningful 
relationship with a Protestant until I was 14. And that is sort 
of simply not good enough. And that is what we need to talk 
about when we look at our peace process.
    You know, when I met a Protestant when I was 14, I was in 
the U.K. Parliament, and we were a group of young people who 
had been put together to represent our various communities. And 
I didn't ask where anyone was from. I didn't ask what their 
identity was, because I didn't care. My parents aren't 
sectarian. No one in my family is sectarian. I just never had 
the opportunity. It is something I call ``the accident of the 
reality of Northern Ireland.''
    And it is something that I think, as people here, we need 
to really, really look at tackling. Because Northern Ireland 
now is a peaceful society, but we are not a reconciled one. So, 
as we talk more about protecting the Good Friday Agreement, we 
really need to look at implementing the parts of the Good 
Friday Agreement that are challenging and the representative 
process.
    So, I want to again thank you all for the opportunity to be 
here today, and I am happy to answer all of your questions. But 
I want to thank you for the opportunity and your interest in 
Northern Ireland, and your passion for our peace success.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Savage follows:]

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    Mr. Keating. Thank you very much.
    And, you know, I was thinking before your statement that we 
are just not getting your perspective on the situation in 
Northern Ireland. We are really--and I think I am speaking for 
most people, but, clearly, for myself--we are looking for an 
action plan from young people. To me, that is the greatest hope 
in going forward.
    And your points are right on target, that, indeed, let's 
talk about implementing what has been in place for 25 years and 
completing that as an action plan. And we can forward and 
spring forward from that, I think, more successfully. But your 
point preempted a later question I had--right on target.
    So, I would like to introduce our next witness, Courtney 
Girvin. She is an activist and a master's graduate in conflict 
transformation and social justice from Queen's University, 
Belfast.
    While attending an alternative education provider, Ms. 
Girvin became involved in an organization for young people of 
diverse backgrounds to lobby education providers, employers, 
and local governments to invest in Northern Ireland's youth.
    So now, I would like to recognize Courtney for 5 minutes, 
or more, if she would like.

 STATEMENT OF COURTNEY GIRVIN, CONFLICT RESOLUTION AND SOCIAL 
                            JUSTICE

    Ms. Girvin. Hi. I, first of all, would like to thank 
Chairman Keating, his staff, and the committee, for having this 
conversation today.
    And I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Dr. 
Patricia O'Lynn, who has been a very positive influence in my 
life and has helped me empower my own voice in a very 
particularly difficult period of my life, and who has helped me 
become the person that I am today. So, I would like to thank 
her here today.
    And as mentioned within my written testimony, I am as old 
as the Good Friday Agreement. I was born in 1998, and 
therefore, I really am a ``peace baby.'' I am very thankful to 
have been spared the fear and anxiety of my parents who lived 
in a military society, all daily public political violence.
    Much like I was born in 1998, my mother was born in 1970, 
which was the height of the Troubles. And some of the stories 
that I heard of her childhood and of my father's childhood are 
completely unrecognizable to the city that I know and love 
today.
    However, I would want to emphasize that this is a peace 
process, and the Good Friday Agreement is part of the peace 
process. And peace process in Northern Ireland did not stop in 
1998, and it did not stop after subsequent political 
agreements. As other witnesses have stated, there is still much 
work to do in actually implementing the original document.
    Northern Ireland remains a divided society. Less than 10 
percent of young people are educated within integrated 
education. Much of our social housing remains segregated. And 
the ironically named peace walls loom and remain over our 
society.
    My own experience, I grew up in a Loyalist part of East 
Belfast, where questions of flags, parades, and policing were 
very much my bread and butter and much my format. I did not 
meet a Catholic until I was 14 and stopped going to school and 
was in an alternative education provider, in which, ironically, 
due to the lack of funding, we weren't segregated and we 
learned together.
    Those areas most impacted by the conflict continue to see 
high levels of poverty and rates of mental illness, as part of 
intergenerational trauma. Our summers continue to be 
characterized as hot, and not due to rising temperatures of the 
result of climate change, but due to the sporadic violence, 
which Patricia referred to in her opening statement.
    I was asked to explain today how young people in Northern 
Ireland view the Good Friday Agreement. In short, it is 
complex. Young people in Northern Ireland are not a homogenous 
grouping and have a broad spectrum of opinion.
    As mentioned within my written testimony, many of our young 
people do not get the opportunity to learn about the conflict 
or the peace process. This is intensified further by the fact 
we are educated separately.
    Similarly, the constructive ambiguity at the heart of the 
Good Friday Agreement means that we continue to have a lack of 
consensus about what the past was. At the time, I think that 
this was a success of the Good Friday Agreement, as it was 
something that both sides of the divide could sign off to, as 
they could both put their own mark on what it was.
    However, 25 years later, we still cannot agree on what 
actually happened. And, of course, this is going to stagnate 
our own understanding and learning about what it was.
    Furthermore, a lack of top-down transitional justice 
mechanisms beyond policing reform has enabled communal myths 
and divisive historic memories to flourish. As we do not learn 
about the conflict or the peace process within neutral and safe 
environments of schooling, young people are forced to get their 
information about the past and about the peace process from 
murals on the wall and adults who very quickly will take 
advantage of young people and fill them with stereotypes and 
biases.
    Young people are fascinated about social issues, such as 
climate change, mental health provisions, and reproductive 
justice, and many more things. I would say many of my 
colleagues take the bull by the horns, for lack of a word, and 
set up their own organizations, such as Pure Mental NI and Stop 
Street Harassment NI.
    But we must reckon with our past. Young people have a 
desire to move beyond our troubled past. But, as we have seen 
in the legacy, their grandchildren and their great-
grandchildren still want the truth about what happened in the 
Franco regime, and I still hear that here today in Northern 
Ireland.
    We must reckon with our past to move toward a peaceful 
future. I ask the committee to continue to invest in our young 
people, but also our young people from marginalized backgrounds 
who have yet to see the benefits of peace.
    And I would like to take this moment to remind our local 
representatives that running from the hard questions of the 
past--policing, flags, and parades--is a disservice to our 
youth and our future.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Girvin follows:]

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    Mr. Keating. Thank you very much.
    And now that we, I think, have the technical issues over 
with, I would like to go back, if we could, to our first 
witness, Dr. Patricia O'Lynn. And take your time and conclude 
your remarks, please. We will now go back to Dr. O'Lynn.

STATEMENT OF DR. PATRICIA O'LYNN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, POLITICS 
                           IN ACTION

    Dr. O'Lynn. Thank you, Chairman Keating, and apologies for 
the technical difficulties all the way over here in Larne, 
Northern Ireland.
    And where I left off, I just wanted to say that, despite 
the same set that I have been engaging with, most young people 
in Northern Ireland are law-abiding, pro-social, exceptional 
citizens, as our panel has just demonstrated. They are focused 
on peace, prosperity, and progressivism.
    And for what it is worth, I do not anticipate a 
recapitulation of the violence that we have seen in previous 
years, not only because people do not want it, but because our 
young people will not allow it. However, I think it is 
important for us to say that a new conflict is being waged 
across the north, one which bears the trappings of all 
society's transitioning to peace--intergenerational trauma, and 
poverty, exclusion, and ``othering.'' And this is a war that is 
not felt evenly across the north and disproportionately by our 
young people.
    My own work experience has focused on engaging with some of 
the most exceptional, talented, and compassionate young people 
you can imagine. Coincidentally, they are the young people who 
are out rioting. They are committing criminal offenses, have 
been incarcerated, find themselves as teenaged mothers removed 
from school, and some of the most tragic circumstances, losing 
their lives to suicide and other related ills.
    From my own PhD research, I find that the central 
underlying factor which has created these social ills and 
ruined our young people's lives has been oppression. And I, as 
an elected representative and a leader of an organization, I 
have committed my life and my career to amplifying those voices 
of exploited youth.
    The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, 
Article 12, States that all young people have a right to make 
their voices heard and to have their voices acted on. And how 
tragic is it that the voices that are really rarely heard are 
the young people rioting in the streets, losing their lives, 
becoming drug-addicted, or incarcerated?
    So, when we are looking to the future to sustain peace, we 
must learn from our past and look at the lessons that we should 
have learned already. And what are they? Well, the central, 
underlying factors that sparked the conflict was wide, mass-
spread experience and feelings of oppression.
    In 2016, I was fortunate enough to be accepted onto the 
Washington Ireland Program. That program changed my life. Not 
only did I have the pleasure of interning with Senator John 
McCain, but I was immersed in a culture where I got to live 
with an amazing American family, and I was forced to debate 
with others from Northern Ireland of diverse political 
backgrounds, issues that were no-go's and unseen to discuss in 
Northern Ireland.
    More importantly, this program taught me how to critically 
reflect; how to disagree respectfully, but how not to resent. 
It changed how I viewed myself and what could be possible for 
me. Indeed, I accredit most of my career success, the ability 
to become elected in Northern Ireland and move into leadership 
roles, to the time I spent on this program, the mentorship I 
received, and the friends I made--not just from Northern 
Ireland, but in the United States of America.
    And so, the main contribution I want to make to this 
conversation today is I cannot help but think how young people 
who are involved in riots, criminally, and all the other social 
ills that they are experiencing would fare if they had access 
to a specialized-in-scope program like the Washington Ireland 
Program.
    When I was recruited, I was a PhD student. I come from a 
stable family background, and I have all the support networks I 
need to flourish, but these young people do not. They are 
fighting a war of their wound that stems from the Troubles in 
Northern Ireland, and as far as we can see, with our mental 
health crisis and all other crises I have mentioned, it has no 
end in sight.
    The United States brings a long track record of proven 
success in Northern Ireland, and you have the ability to 
leverage outside resources; provide new ideas; help the 
parties, the governments, and young people with the challenges 
I have mentioned.
    One way we can demonstrate our commitment is by designing 
that bespoke program or initiative exclusively for young people 
on the cold face of conflict in Northern Ireland. I believe 
wholeheartedly that, until we amplify these voices, reach into 
these marginal spaces, listen to these young people and see the 
world through their lens, and understand what peace might look 
like for them, then we will continue to be in the situations 
that we are in today and that we faced in April 2021.
    Again, thank you so much for having me here today, and I am 
delighted to answer any questions you might have.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. O'Lynn follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Keating. Thank you very much.
    I will now move to the questioning period of our program. I 
will recognize, first, myself for 5 minutes, and then, 
hopefully, our other members will have some questions as well.
    But I am going to move, Dr. O'Lynn, from my prepared 
question because I was struck with your testimony. Before I was 
in Congress, I was a district attorney, chief law enforcement 
enforcer in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in my region. And 
I instituted programs alternative to prosecution, mental health 
diversion, many other things. And I was struck by your comments 
that the main common denominator, if I can paraphrase you, for 
what occurred in the troubles of so many of these young people, 
including suicide and criminal involvement, comes from 
oppression. Can you expand on that, No. 1.
    And, No. 2, what is the jurisdictional issue? Are there 
criminal justice or prosecution issues that have alternatives 
like that to deal with young people, to get to these main 
causes that exist? Or, if not, what would you recommend? Dr. 
O'Lynn?
    Dr. O'Lynn. Thank you, Chairman Keating. Two great 
questions.
    First of all, we do have diversion programs in Northern 
Ireland and we are engaging in restorative conferencing. And I 
am an advocate of early intervention. And although I know such 
programs have strong enough success rates, I believe that, once 
young people are labeled, they become stigmatized and they move 
back into the communities and cultures that are creating or 
suffering oppression, which makes it difficult for them to 
thrive and move away from their previous experiences that leads 
to re-offending.
    When I talk about the core denomination being oppression, 
it is a much more complex answer to try to give. If we try to 
put structure around my answer and look at the structural level 
of society, as my colleagues here have stated, young people are 
kept apart by education, by housing. They have community 
leaders telling them that their community is being failed, that 
they are failures, that they are being left out, and if they do 
not turn to violence, no one is going to come and help them.
    At a cultural level, these young people have very few 
opportunities to engage in cross-community initiatives or, 
indeed, be educated or live together. And 9 times out of 10, 
they are marginalized or excluded from their schools. So, they 
enter into these communities that have their own complexities; 
do not have adult supervision, or do not have what I would 
classify as appropriate pro-social adult supervision.
    And at the individual level, the young person level, in 
light of everything I have discussed, they are still evolving 
young people. They are vulnerable. They have been left out and 
are missing a sense of belonging. They identify with our 
current elected representatives and have very few opportunities 
for cause of recognition, other than to act out in order to 
cope with the cards they have been dealt in life.
    And----
    Mr. Keating. If I could pause for a moment, and just see if 
either Mr. Lynch, Mr. Savage, or Ms. Girvin can comment on what 
Dr. O'Lynn was talking about herself. I mean, I was, with such 
activists as Ms. Girvin and Mr. Savage, when you both said you 
hadn't seen someone from the other faith until you were 14, it 
is, think about that in such a concentrated geographic area, 
that that is the case. So, could you comment on what Dr. O'Lynn 
was talking about here?
    Mr. Savage. It is shocking, but the norm is that I haven't 
met someone from the other faith until I was 14.
    But one thing I want to note is the riots that we were 
talking about out here that happened last summer with the bus, 
where there was a bus that burnt down in Belfast, this----
    Mr. Keating. Excuse me. Could you move the microphone 
closer? I am sorry.
    Mr. Savage. Yes. Is that any better?
    Mr. Keating. That's better. Thank you.
    Mr. Savage. Good.
    The riots that we discussed earlier last summer that were 
purportedly to be over the Northern Ireland Protocol, but were, 
in reality, being spun to be a breach of COVID regulations at a 
republican funeral--there is actually another story to that and 
those young people.
    Those riots were global news, as Dr. O'Lynn noted, but, 
then, they sort of disappeared out of nowhere. And what wasn't 
covered by the media was why they ended. And I believe why they 
ended was that there was a policy change just the day before, 
which was that our education minister, as a response to lasting 
infection rates of the coronavirus, reopened our youth centers. 
And those gentle people who were on the streets during the 
pandemic didn't have access to youth facilities, suddenly, had 
somewhere to go and couldn't be, in my opinion, targeted by 
these older people and used as almost child soldiers to go and 
fight riots that they, oftentimes, do not know a lot about.
    I mean, I have seen the images that Dr. O'Lynn mentioned in 
her opening statement, and it does really paint a story of a 
lot of times these young people who riot do not have any strong 
beliefs that are anti-peace, and certainly, do not have strong 
opinions about the Northern Ireland Protocol and international 
trade tariffs. I mean, I was 17 only 2 years, and I can tell 
you, I think it would take a lot to get a 17-year-old incensed 
over international trade tariffs.
    Mr. Keating. I think_I think we share that.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Savage. Yes. So, I mean, I think that there is another 
story there; that these are young people here who are 
manipulated, and they are taken advantage of by older members 
of their community. And the best way to protect them is by 
investing in them.
    And if we look back at that decision by the education 
minister to open the youth centers, and how that ended that 
problem, that tells us everything about where we need to go in 
Northern Ireland. It is about investing in these young people, 
investing in these marginalized communities, and that will end 
the threat of violence from these young people.
    So, that is one thing, I think, that wasn't covered in the 
media that I think we really, really need to note, because it 
paints a picture of just how Northern Ireland society 
functions, and how our young people react to the world around 
them.
    Mr. Keating. Yeah.
    Mr. Lynch. If I may comment briefly, and really, I will be 
echoing the sentiments of both Cormac and Patricia.
    Civic conversation in Northern Ireland has really been 
vital over the past decades. And coming back to some of our 
earlier sentiments around there is still elements of the Good 
Friday Agreement that have yet to be fully implemented, one of 
the most fundamental, I think, in this is around a civic forum. 
Young people really feel that they sometimes do not have a 
voice or do not have an opportunity to articulate their views 
around civic society and how they can really make a difference 
in their own communities they are living in. And actually, in 
many of these communities there is no real mechanism for them 
to do so.
    And so, whenever Patricia, for example, was talking about 
WIP and some of the other cross-community programs that exist 
even in smaller, tighter-knit communities, that is essential. 
And I think one of the best ways for us to develop a framework 
around that is going back to the initial agreement 24 years 
ago, looking at the concept of a civic forum and actually 
getting to a stage where we can implement an initiative like 
that.
    Mr. Keating. Great. Actually, at the end of that hearing, I 
made quite a point of the fact that the civic forum requirement 
had just drifted away and had not been followed up at all. And 
I agree with that. I think if you want to engage people, they 
have to have the opportunity to engage.
    So, I am pleased to recognize for questions Representative 
Meuser from the State of Pennsylvania.
    Representative Meuser, you have 5 minutes or more, if you 
would like, for questions.
    Mr. Meuser. Thank you, Chairman Keating. Thank you all very 
much. And, Ranking Member Fitzpatrick. I appreciate you holding 
this hearing and this discussion. Very, very revealing, very 
informative, educational.
    I appreciate the specifics, but also the passion that our 
witnesses our speaking to us, all three, or four.
    I did have the occasion of visiting Ireland a number of 
years ago, or 10 years ago or so, on a vacation, not for really 
any other reason. Family has Irish ties, as most do, it seems, 
as did the family I drove with, and we saw family there. And it 
was just a wonderful experience, and I am surprised I haven't 
been back.
    When I came back, I was asked why didn't I go to Northern 
Ireland, and I really didn't have a good answer for it. And I 
said, my next trip, that is where I need to go. So, that has 
stuck with me and that will be my plan.
    Dr. O'Lynn, I would like to just start with you, please. 
You mentioned you dedicated your life to--and I think you 
said--inclusionary or very much of the main focus of much of 
your statements, how non-inclusionary are the schools and the 
children, and the lack of diversity. Could you just expand upon 
that a little bit, what your dedication would be in the most 
specific terms you can?
    Dr. O'Lynn. Yes, of course. So, what I mean when I say that 
is I am dedicating my career to creating opportunities for the 
most excluded and marginalized youth to have their voices 
heard, but not just heard, but also acted upon.
    So, for example, in Northern Ireland, we have the 
Washington Ireland Program. We have Youth Forum by the 
department of education, and we also have a Youth Parliament. 
But, traditionally, the young people that engage in those 
things are not involved in riots; they are not involved in 
criminality. There is a class divide as well as a sectarian 
divide. And I believe my place in this world is to act as a 
conduit to communicate the voices of exploited youth to 
decisionmakers and, indeed, I am part of the entity, the exact 
theme down the line.
    Mr. Meuser. And who is pushing against you? Who is against 
this inclusion? Who is keeping, for instance, Ms. Girvin from 
meeting a Catholic by the time she is 14 years old?
    Dr. O'Lynn. I do not want to speak on behalf of Ms. Girvin 
because I know she is more than capable of speaking herself, 
but I think, as I mentioned earlier, there is three levels of 
societal organizations: structural, community, and individual.
    I think there are structural barriers keeping our 
communities apart in terms of living, in terms of education, 
and in terms of equal opportunities at a cultural level. You 
know, our communities are still separated by walls, as a very 
physical manifestation of how people are kept apart. Generally, 
society runs along quite well. We have mixed workplaces, but we 
do not have the level of opportunity for the most marginalized 
youth to come together at an early age and learn how to 
navigate society.
    And it has been applicable that, when we have those 
structural, cultural, and community barriers, that at an 
individual level, you will feel not just incapable, but 
unworthy of interacting on the forums and the opportunities 
that I have mentioned. In short, these young people that I am 
talking about need serious, serious capacity-building, serious 
investment, and dedicated intensive wraparound services. And 
that is what I mean when I say that is what my career is 
dedicated to.
    Mr. Meuser. Yes, and I appreciate that. Do you find--and, 
Ms. Girvin, I want to get to you; in fact, have you speak for 
yourself. Do you find the educators are inclined to teach in an 
inclusionary manner? Is that one of your obstacles or something 
that you were in conflict with?
    Ms. Girvin. I would find that--so, I went to a single faith 
primary school. And from a very early age, I will say that I 
had very little knowledge about what a Protestant was and what 
a Catholic was. And my first understanding of what a Catholic 
was the older kids in my community, and we were told by them 
that the Catholics had come and vandalized our bus stop. So, to 
me, at 10 years old, I thought a Catholic was similar to a 
bogeyman, and we were told we could identify them because their 
eyes were too far apart.
    I do not believe our educators are intentionally 
exclusionary, but the fact that our education system is set up 
in a way structurally that, if I lived on the Falls Road, I 
would attend one school and never meet a Protestant. Likewise, 
if I lived on the Shankill, I would attend another school and 
never meet a Catholic.
    And the current system in which we would have cross-
community engagement, I would say is one-off opportunities and 
often photo opportunities, and we will stick our young people 
in orange and green hoodies and mark them out, rather than 
enabling them to build relationships with the other side.
    And I fell out of school when I was 13-14 and was told that 
I would amount to very little. And it was thanks to the likes 
of Dr. O'Lynn who provided that wraparound support and provided 
an education that empowered me and encouraged me to look at the 
system that I found myself in and taught me beyond the 
curriculum. And I was able to become the person I am.
    I would like to say that our educational curriculum does 
not look at the Good Friday Agreement and it does not look at 
the conflict, potentially, because it is such a hotbed topic 
and people are uncomfortable to talk about it. So, a lot of our 
young people actually do not get to learn about the conflict or 
the peace process, unless they choose to do it optionally at 
16.
    And this isn't good enough, and this is enabling our young 
people to get their information from leaders who do not want 
the best for them. And when I refer to these leaders, I am 
talking about paramilitary influences.
    I hope that answers your question.
    Mr. Meuser. Yes, thank you. And whoever might have said to 
you, tell them, at the age of--I guess you are 24 or 25--that 
you are advising and directing Congress on how to help improve 
Northern Ireland, and you are.
    Chairman, I appreciate your indulgence. May I have another 
90 seconds or so?
    Mr. Keating. Certainly.
    Mr. Meuser. All right. Thank you, Chairman Keating.
    So, the only other question for each of you--and, Dr. 
O'Lynn, perhaps I will start with you, but, then, I would like 
Mr. Savage to comment. If you were sitting in my seat, you are 
a Member of Congress from Northern Ireland, what would you do? 
And Mr. Savage provided us a couple of ideas here, which, 
frankly, I agree with each and every one of them. Maybe each 
one of you could just say in a 30-second period or maybe expand 
a little bit, what would you do, if you were in my seat, to 
help the relationship with Northern Ireland and help Northern 
Ireland in general?
    Dr. O'Lynn?
    Dr. O'Lynn. Thirty seconds, no question.
    I would absolutely to establish a U.S. Envoy to Northern 
Ireland and work to establish a civic forum, as the exponential 
broker that used to be in the past.
    There are others things I haven't had the chance to talk 
about today, such as investing in the direct transition process 
away from paramilitarism and providing people a table. And my 
main cry would be that we work together to establish a bespoke 
initiative specifically for youth who have been incarcerated, 
who have engaged in rioting, and who are suffering with any of 
the social ills I mentioned previously, in a similar format to 
the Washington Ireland Program.
    Mr. Meuser. Thank you.
    Mr. Savage?
    Mr. Keating. Yes, Mr. Savage wants to respond, 
Representative.
    Mr. Savage. In my written submission, I noted a couple of 
these ideas. But I think I do sum this up--and I will repeat 
this a number of times today--that the United States focus on 
protecting the Good Friday Agreement needs to be supplemented 
with implementing it. So, what the United States needs to be 
focusing on is the civic forum and trying to bring a civic 
forum back, which is permitted in the Good Friday Agreement.
    My suggestion on integrated education would be that 
integrated education in Northern Ireland, I think the latest 
figure suggests that almost 70 percent of parents and 90 
percent of the whole population supports integrated education. 
So, it is very much tragic that it has not been implemented. 
And that is because our politicians kind of worked right away 
to make it happen, but they won't offend anyone or compromise 
their own beliefs.
    So, the United States' place there would be to fund an 
international panel of experts from across the world, non-
Northern Irish, who will act independently to come up a plan 
for our education system to transition to a place of integrated 
education. And that would be my suggestion, and I think that it 
is possibly the most worthwhile thing you can do for Northern 
Ireland, to help us muddle through the transition to 
reconciliation in terms of education.
    I would also suggest that the United States needs to 
understand that Senator George Mitchell moved a mountain when 
he helped us negotiate the Good Friday Agreement. And the 
United States' involvement in our peace process should not end 
there; it should begin there.
    And I think that, after this election, if we end up in a 
situation where, as a consequence of the current political 
climate in Northern Ireland, we do not have a government, the 
United States needs to step up and offer an independent chair 
to chair the negotiations between the parties to get back into 
government.
    The United States, with its history in Northern Ireland, 
has an incredible sway over our politicians. I think that we 
need to really see the United States begin to use that.
    And, I mean, the integrated education commission I think 
should be a priority in Northern Ireland. Because if you really 
want to talk about reconciliation, you need to make sure that 
young people like myself and Ms. Girvin do not get to the age 
of 14 without meeting a Protestant. We need to make sure that, 
when I am sitting in my primary school class at the age of 4, I 
am learning to read and write with a Protestant beside me.
    And I would say as well, outside of the classroom, when it 
comes to investing in programs in the interim, you need to 
invest in programs that do not put our young people beside one 
another and say, ``You're a Catholic. You're a Protestant. 
Let's make you friends.'' You need to invest in programs that 
teach young people how to write a resume, how to do their 
taxes, or programs like the organization I founded, which said 
to young people, let's give you a voice in your education. So, 
you need to invest in programs that are beneficial to us not as 
Catholics or beneficial to us as Protestants, but beneficial to 
us as people and in our development.
    So, I think that those are some key ``asks'' that I would 
have. I honestly believe that you need to also step in on the 
other issues which are plaguing our society, like compensation 
for victims. So, many of the victims of our conflict have still 
received no compensation for what they have been through. It is 
a sticking point in every political discussion in Northern 
Ireland that relates to the conflict. It is one of the reasons 
we find it difficult to talk about the past. And that is 
somewhere that the United States could act as an intermediary.
    Your role as a country in Northern Ireland and as an 
influencer is to help us sit at the table and to chair the 
talks, and act as an independent mediator. When it is the 
British government or the Irish government, and now, the EU as 
well, there is a perception by one side that a side is being 
taken. The United States is independent. It is powerful and it 
has immense sway over us.
    So, I think that that is a sleeping dragon of assistance 
that needs to be awakened as urgently as possible, and I think 
that the key ``ask'' for me would be a panel of experts funded 
by the United States to help us into the transition in our 
education system.
    Mr. Meuser. All right. Well, thank you. Chairman, I am----
    Mr. Keating. The chair will recognize Representative 
Malliotakis----
    Mr. Lynch. I am happy to----
    Mr. Keating. If we could hear briefly from Mr. Lynch on 
that?
    Mr. Lynch. I will be very brief, and I will echo some of 
Mr. Savage's comments.
    I think, in respect to integrated education, I think back 
to 2003, when Richard Haass had a huge part to play in Northern 
Ireland reconciliation. He made a very poignant statement about 
integrated education, and that made waves back in 2003.
    And even if the United States administration could set out 
their position on integrated education, then that in itself 
could have a really good impact.
    And one other point to remember, when you do visit Northern 
Ireland, please make contact with us and visit an integrated 
school. When George Bush visited Loughview Integrated Primary 
School in 2008, again, that was a real show of strength. So, 
when the Member does visit Northern Ireland, please make sure 
to visit an integrated school.
    Mr. Meuser. Thank you.
    Mr. Keating. Thank you.
    Incidentally, we did have a congressional delegation visit 
planned. It was interrupted with COVID issues. And part of that 
was to go to an integrated school.
    I would like now to recognize, from New York, 
Representative Malliotakis.
    Ms. Malliotakis. Thank you very much, Chairman.
    I am very impressed with the young people that we have here 
today.
    I have been to Ireland twice. I was a member of the State 
legislature prior to coming to Congress, and with the Irish 
legislators, I was able to visit. And we did go to Northern 
Ireland. Very, very impressed. Such a beautiful country, and 
you are both very fortunate to be from there.
    I wanted to just sort of, I guess, followup on some of 
these questions. And I have to say that I am very pleased with 
the United States history also and its involvement in the Good 
Friday Agreement.
    And the Good Friday Agreement States that facilitation and 
encouragement of integrated education and mixed housing are 
essential in the reconciliation process. But, despite this, 
education in Northern Ireland remains highly segregated along 
sectarian lines with only 7 percent of schools being formally 
integrated. And you touched on this today, as to why it is so 
important and your desire to see more integration.
    Most recently, in March of this year, the Northern Ireland 
Assembly passed legislation which places a statutory duty on 
the department of education to provide further support to the 
integrated school sector.
    A two-part question: are you hopeful? Does that legislation 
make you hopeful? And, No. 2, what are some of the other areas 
where we need to tackle this segregation? I believe housing is 
another issue. If you can talk a little bit about those?
    Mr. Lynch. Absolutely, and, in fact, thank you very much 
for your question.
    And the first part of the question, are we hopeful? 
Absolutely, for a number of reasons. If nothing else, what this 
piece of legislation has brought to the fore is a very active 
debate. We recognize that this day 1 week is our Assembly 
elections. So, we will be electing like six MLAs, and they are 
all now out on the doorsteps asking their constituents what 
issues matter to them. And now more than ever, one of the most 
common responses is educating our children together.
    So, this is now very much at the fore of people's minds. We 
have been living in this hiatus since the Good Friday Agreement 
of just struggling to get to the next stage. And now, this is 
at the very fore of the debate. So, if nothing else, that is a 
really positive step forward.
    As I made reference in some way in my opening statement, 
there have been many reports and reviews around educational 
reform in Northern Ireland. There was an independent review 
into integrated education that took place a number of years 
ago. There were provisions set out in the Good Friday 
Agreement, the initial Education Order of 1989. There is an 
abundance of literature, also, on this topic area.
    But, still, we have struggled to make substantive change 
when it comes to implementation. So, with that, as much as I am 
hopeful, I am cautious. And I think a key deciding factor to 
how it will play out over the coming weeks and months will be 
the outcome of our elections this time next week. That will 
really set the playing field in terms of their education 
ministries and their interpretation of the legislation.
    It does place a statutory duty to facilitate and encourage 
integrated education, but, with that in mind, we have had, you 
know, equally, a number of pieces of legislation that have kind 
of come close to that in the past, but we still haven't managed 
to get over the line.
    In terms of other issues to reference, housing is something 
you also alluded to. I think this is a wide-encompassing 
puzzle. I recognize that integrated education will not be the 
single answer to reconciliation in Northern Ireland. There is a 
number of challenges around geography-imposing, as reference, 
and also, just around ensuring that we have this continued 
debate around issues that matter.
    We have referenced climate change. We have referenced 
mental health and the cost-of-living crisis. These all play 
into a wide sort of facet of activities that we need to start 
to debate. That is where we come back to the initial agreement, 
as set out in 1989, that really puts into play the idea and 
where we can start to implement the best way to live in a 
reconciled society.
    And that is why I think looking to one or two key ``asks.'' 
When we talk about a civic forum and when we talk about 
continually implementing the Good Friday Agreement, that's 
really the next stage to continuing the process.
    Ms. Malliotakis. Well, thank you.
    If anyone else wants to add to that, that is fine. Or else, 
I do have one additional--would you like to add?
    Ms. Girvin. Yes. Yes.
    Mr. Savage. I will speak first.
    On the question just about am I hopeful, following the 
integrated education bill, I am a big supporter of that bill. I 
read that bill. I thought it was fabulous. It was one of the 
real first strides where we have integrated education.
    But what didn't make me hopeful was the reaction to that 
bill among the Assembly members. There was a campaign to kill 
that bill that was waged by one of our political parties, where 
they really, really put out attack ads on social media and 
everything against individual members of the Assembly, just to 
try to make sure that bill wouldn't pass. And that, for me, was 
something that really--I really struggled with it. It really 
struck me.
    Because if people actively wage a campaign to ensure that 
there isn't additional support given for our young people to be 
educated together, then you will put all of your political 
resources and political capital into that. Then, what are your 
priorities?
    So, when I referenced earlier that we needed an independent 
international commission to come in and try to manage a 
transition in Northern Ireland for integrated education, that 
is why. Because our politicians in Northern Ireland, they are 
out of step with those they represent, in particular, on the 
issue of integrated education. So, I just wanted to note that, 
in particular.
    Mr. Keating. I think Ms. Girvin wanted to answer that, too.
    Ms. Malliotakis. OK. And I have an additional question, if 
I may, after----
    Mr. Keating. Did you want to answer that, too, Ms. Girvin?
    Ms. Girvin. Yes, if that would be OK.
    Mr. Keating. Certainly.
    Ms. Girvin. I will answer the previous question as well.
    And when asked what I would advise, and used to deny, I 
would say that, while integrated education is very, very 
important, I would also like to State that it is not as easy as 
saying, ``Let's integrate the school.'' And our geography and 
our very maps are lined by ``no-go'' areas and interface areas 
in which violence often occurs.
    And I would also like to point out that, while it has been 
mentioned that our young people are some of the best achievers 
in terms of A levels, some of the most marginalized young 
people that Dr. O'Lynn works with do not achieve five A-to-C 
GCSEs, which, then, increases their exclusion from better 
opportunities of education, employment, and training.
    And I would say I am hopeful for the future, but, as a 
young person living here, I see young people resentful of the 
slow process of change. And many of our great young minds are 
moving away and we are losing that talent, and we are losing 
our creativity and that imagination.
    What I would suggest that you see next time you are there 
having a visit in Northern Ireland, come and speak to some of 
our amazing young leaders and come and speak to some of our 
community leaders who are on the ground and doing the work.
    When we were talking about the violence last summer, it was 
young people on the ground talking to other young people and 
asking them, ``Why are you engaging in this? You know, you're 
the one who is going to end up with the criminal record, not 
the people who are pulling the strings and cheering you on from 
the sidelines.''
    And so, I would say, come speak to our young leaders. 
Empower them. Look at initiatives, like in our city, that are 
on the ground, encouraging the most marginalized young people 
to come see beyond what happened at a bus stop on Friday night 
on Falls Road or what happened on a Saturday.
    I also wanted to encourage our politicians to take a stand 
and actually work with us, rather than fight these issues, and 
initiate top-down truth initiatives that can inform a better 
curriculum in which to learn about the conflict and the peace 
process here.
    Ms. Malliotakis. Thank you.
    And my additional question is for Dr. O'Lynn, or anyone 
else who would like to weigh in.
    I am curious, from your perspective, how has Brexit and the 
Northern Ireland Protocol impacted the lives of people in 
Northern Ireland, and if you see a practical change to day-to-
day lives.
    Dr. O'Lynn. So, that is a great question. In short, I think 
what Brexit has done, it has stoked divisions that were 
previously lying a little bit lower than what they were in the 
past. Personally, I have not seen massive destruction to my 
life. Northern Ireland has always struggled with getting 
certain packages or access to different materials from 
different markets. I do not believe that Brexit has made that 
any worse. Indeed, I believe we are in an advantageous 
situation where we have the best of both worlds. Very few 
people are focusing on the positives that can come out of this 
situation.
    In terms of education, I would say--sorry--and exclusion, I 
would say that no school or exclusion society exists in a 
vacuum. There are microcosms of society, and the educators I 
work with daily report that, in some instances, things have 
become more polarized within the classrooms and they see more 
extreme behavior and behavioral responses, not just as a result 
of Brexit, but, indeed, the global pandemic.
    And if you will indulgence me just a minute longer, I would 
like to just nuance on some of the responses that the panel 
gave to the previous question.
    And I am delighted to hear Michael and Courtney nuance the 
statements about integrated education because it is so 
important that we realize that, whilst it is an important 
movement, it is not the panacea.
    Now I will put it in context before I end up in trouble in 
work tomorrow. It is my own party that brought that piece of 
legislation. I am a deep supporter of integrated education, but 
it is based on contact theory; i.e., you bring young people 
together. You educate them. You send them back to segregated 
communities, and they go back to the segregation. So, we still 
need to really focus and hone in on integrating housing.
    But, also, more importantly, what integrated education does 
bear is endorse critical thinking and challenge young people to 
reflect on their perspectives; and also, to challenge 
themselves to think beyond their binary thinking.
    And just one more point, if I may. This may be slightly 
cheeky. One place in the education system that is wholly 
integrated is our school exclusion centers, because, as Ms. 
Girvin said earlier, they do not have the financial luxury of 
being separate. The resources are low. So, if you are excluded 
or removed from the mainstream system, you are put into an 
integrated school exclusion center, if you are lucky. And there 
are deep lessons that can be learned there.
    Mr. Keating. OK. Thank you.
    I would like to recognize Representative Titus from Nevada 
for 5 minutes.
    Representative Titus.
    Ms. Titus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I would like to followup on some comments that were made to 
the previous question about young people's general engagement.
    I taught political science at the university level for many 
years. And at times, students were very engaged. Sometimes they 
were very liberal, more so than the teacher. Sometimes they 
were more conservative than the teacher. Sometimes they didn't 
really care who was in politics.
    Now I know you all are very engaged. I am kind of preaching 
to the choir here. But I wonder about young people in general.
    In this country, 18-to 25-year-olds are the least likely to 
vote. They do not turn out. But there are some who are very 
engaged and they seem to engage around issues like the 
environment, something that everybody can kind of get together 
on.
    I wonder how, generally, young people are in terms of 
voting patterns, or what issues might unite you, like 
environment. Any of you can answer.
    Mr. Savage. If I can speak to this, given my experience 
working with young people in the Secondary Students' Union for 
the past 2 years.
    One thing that I will note is that a lot of our young 
people might not engage in the political process in the way we 
expect them to or want them to. And that is because they do not 
feel it reflects them.
    I mean, if you look at the Northern Ireland news in the 
last month, it has been about Brexit; it has been about the 
Northern Ireland Protocol. And as I noted earlier, a lot of 
young people do feel disconnected, unsurprisingly, from trade 
tariffs. It is not something that they particularly understand, 
and myself included a lot of the time, or are passionate about.
    But what I note is, when I was in the Secondary Students' 
Union, we brought young people in, young people who maybe 
didn't know the most about politics, weren't that engaged in 
public life. But, as soon as we gave them a vehicle and invited 
them to deal with an issue that they all understood, it was 
education; it was what they lived; it was there every day. They 
were talking about the issues that were 9 to 3:30 for them 
every day. And once we gave them a vehicle and a platform to 
engage on those issues, that opened the door to them, 
engagement on larger issues.
    So, what we did was, in the Secondary Students' Union, our 
initial campaign was about A-level grading, and then, we moved 
after that to examinations in the next year in the context of 
the coronavirus.
    But, then, we realized that we really had an opportunity 
here. We had a lot of young people engaging in this work that 
had never really engaged before. So, what we did then was we 
started to look at mental health. We offered a mental health 
report which was massive in policymaking in Northern Ireland, 
and I am very, very grateful the policymakers took it very 
seriously. It was based on a survey of 3,000 young people--I am 
sorry--2,300. In 24 hours, we were able to get 2,300 young 
people to respond to a survey on mental health.
    Ms. Titus. Wow.
    Mr. Savage. And for me, if that does not say we are 
engaged, we care, then I do not know what does.
    And we moved after that to, then, look at issues at our 
annual conference on everything from the environment and its 
sustainability to LGBTQ rights. And honestly, education we used 
to get people involved. And the reason that more young people 
aren't involved or voting, as you noted, Representative, in the 
political process is because they do not feel it reflects or 
represents them.
    If you look at the order of business in the Northern 
Ireland Assembly, chances are most of it will be sort of 
esoterical legislation that young people do not understand, and 
maybe it does not impact them.
    But, if we can make sure that opportunities to engage on 
issues that impact young people and reflect their needs are 
given to them, then that opens the door to engagement that goes 
far, far beyond that.
    Ms. Girvin. I would also agree with what Cormac had said. 
And I think engagement with politics is--there are different 
ways that we can engage in politics. Of course, we can go 
differently and we can put our number--here, we have two voting 
systems. We can do our STV 1, 2, 3, or when we are voting with 
our Westminister elections, we can put our ``X'' on a box.
    And I think part of the issue and why young people do not 
engage in politics, traditionally, is because we do not have 
the education, and our curriculum is not set up to deliver 
political education, nor is it set up to deliver local 
historical education, either.
    And as I said previously, it is only until you reach the 
age of 16 that you can have that optional module of history, 
and even then, it is not taught. Likewise, the first time I 
engaged in political education was when I was 17 at A level.
    But I would say that young people engage in politics every 
day on the ground, and many of our young people have been the 
ones leading the teams to have these bills that we have now 
seen that are much more progressive for Northern Ireland come 
through the Assembly.
    Like Stop Street Harassment NI has worked with our justice 
minister, Naomi Long, and worked on getting cat calling and 
make it illegal. Likewise, we have a lot of climate unrest, and 
our young people engage in the strikes for climate. These are 
all political actions. Whether we see it as important as 
putting an ``X'' box or not, these are political actions that 
our young people are taking every day. And----
    Ms. Titus. But do you think the young people will have an 
impact on the upcoming election? Do politicians seek you out 
and try to encourage young people to vote?
    Ms. Girvin. I do not think so. I think the way that our 
political system is set up is why we share a card with the 
consultational system. It is orange-and-green politics. So, 
they have very traditional voter voices, particularly, our 
dominant Unionist Party, the DUP. And I do not think they are 
interested in what young people have to say. They are not 
interested in the issues that young people are interested in. 
And they do position themselves against what young people are 
interested in. They are anti-LGBT. They are anti-human rights.
    But, as I say, our young people push on the ground. They 
set up organizations. They lobby other political parties to 
bring their views and issues forth. And thankfully, with the 
reform of the Petition of Concern, the DUP can no longer use 
what was meant to be a safety net to block these issues.
    But I would say I have seen changes in the arrangement of 
the local institutions. We have seen more Green MLAs be 
elected. We have seen the likes of People Before Profit be 
elected. These are parties that did not get elected prior to 
the peace generation being able to vote.
    Ms. Titus. Well, thank you very much. It is always 
encouraging to me to see young people. You are the agents of 
change. And so, it is nice to hear how involved you are and you 
are getting others as well.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
    Mr. Keating. Thank you.
    The chair will now recognize Mr. Titus from Minnesota.
    Mr. Phillips. Oh, Mr. Phillips, right. Right?
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Keating. We just had Ms. Titus. Mr. Phillips--I am 
sorry--from Minnesota.
    Ms. Titus. I haven't gotten married lately to Mr. Phillips.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Keating. Yes. Well, he is not on right now and he is 
not elected. You are, Representative Titus.
    So now, it is Representative Phillips from Minnesota.
    Mr. Phillips. OK. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And greetings, everybody.
    Having spent some wonderful time in Belfast and done 
business in Portaferry, of all places, I have great affection 
for Northern Ireland.
    I am so grateful to all of you for joining us today.
    My question is about housing. After the agreement was 
signed in 1998, I know that there was a distinct effort and a 
commitment between the U.K. and Northern Ireland to provide 
public housing to those who wished to live in multi-
denomination communities. And despite that, I know most people 
still live in segregated communities, despite an overwhelming 
majority of those surveyed wanting to cohabitate in communities 
with both major religions.
    So, my question is, how is housing driving either division 
or opportunities to provide more reconciliation? And starting 
with anybody who wishes to take the question.
    Ms. Girvin. I am, I suppose, speaking anecdotally. And as I 
said, I lived in a segregated area of Northern Ireland, and I 
lived close to an interface area. So, I suppose to clarify an 
``interface area,'' it is when a majority Loyalist area and a 
majority Republican area are on like a boundary. So, we can see 
each other from across the road. And normally, this is where 
the likes of bottles and bricks and things are thrown at each 
other in the summer months.
    But just up the road from where I grew up, we did have an 
integrated parties project, for lack of a better word. And I 
had an opportunity to speak to some of the young people there, 
and it flourished. But, as tends to be the case, when political 
tensions are high, and when issues of Brexit and things like 
that become orange-and-green issues, our paramilitaries are 
very much active.
    And what happened in that particular community was 
paramilitary leadership went in and they told the Nationalists 
living in that area that this was not an area that they were to 
live in. They broke the policy of having no flags, as a lot of 
these integrated housing areas will try to keep the space 
neutral, of course, for obvious reasons. The flags went up, and 
shortly afterwards, it became a Loyalist eState, rather than an 
integrated area.
    And so, I think part of the issue is, when we try to have 
these projects, and we try to break down these barriers, there 
are people in our society who want to go back to the past, who 
enjoy being in a position of control and feeding off the fears 
of local people in general.
    And I know, speaking from when I lived with my mother, I 
put a Black Lives Matter sign in my window during the height of 
the George Floyd protests, and my mom was terrified that we 
were going to be put out. And I said, ``Mom, but how come 
they're allowed to fly a flag that says UVF on it?'' I said, 
``That's a terrorist organization.'' And she was absolutely 
petrified that we were going to put out of an eState where we 
have lived for 20-plus years.
    I suppose, while that is not a statistic and while that is 
not fact-based, that would just be my anecdotal experience of 
the issues in getting integrated housing.
    Mr. Phillips. Housing matters, yes.
    Does anybody else want to address that question?
    Dr. O'Lynn. Yes, if I could, Congressman?
    I think what Ms. Girvin has said is very important, but it 
is also important to note that, in the areas that remain deeply 
segregated by peace lines, there is tremendous activism going 
on, tremendous efforts at peace work.
    I am sure Professor McWilliams highlighted, for example, 
there is a cross-community women's group that continues to meet 
on the interface between the Shankill and the Falls Road on a 
weekly basis that does fantastic peacebuilding work. And more 
and more, we see young people engaged in cross-community 
initiatives, where they have the opportunity, trying to do the 
same thing, build bridges across the divides.
    And at times, you do get the sense that it is more the 
structural and the deviant sort of criminal paramilitary 
aspects of society that is holding us back, which creates a 
hesitancy of a readiness. But, still, I believe readiness is 
there.
    And also, when we talk about young people and young adults 
coming through, the majority of young people here who are 
moving into higher education, further training, or 
apprenticeships are moving into shared living spaces in the 
center of the city, and further affiliated with our higher 
education placement.
    There is also a mass class dynamic at play here. Those of 
us who have the privilege to own our own properties opt for 
neutral areas and opt for neutral areas where the schools are 
accessible; childcare is good, and there is a good standard of 
living.
    So, I believe the readiness is there, but there are 
structural criminological aspects that are deterring people and 
giving the perception that readiness is not there.
    Mr. Phillips. OK. I see my time has expired.
    I want to thank you all again for joining us today.
    And with that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Keating. Thank you very much, Representative.
    And I would just like to say this hearing has been 
something that I think has been very important. There are a few 
other issues going on in Europe right now, as we all know, and 
we have paid a great deal of attention to those issues, as we 
should. But this is an issue that I think has been very 
concerning to so many people in the United States, so many 
Members of Congress, including people that were here that 
participated in the Good Friday Agreement originally.
    But I do think that many of the issues that we have 
discussed point to this, and I think our witnesses did an 
extraordinary job of bringing these issues forward. The Good 
Friday Agreement is fragile. The Good Friday Agreement has been 
an enormous success in terms of going from point A to point B 
in terms of violence. However, it hasn't been fully 
implemented.
    And I look back at our own history in the United States. 
And here in our country after the Civil War, after slavery was 
abolished, we had a period in the United States where there was 
such a focus on unity and a union, that we ignored dealing with 
the issues that had to be dealt with at that time to truly make 
civil rights real for individuals.
    And for decades and decades and decades, we didn't deal 
with those issues. And the laws that were there and that were 
put in place going forward weren't implemented successfully. 
And we are living with, in our own country, the results of not 
dealing with those issues today.
    And I think you brought forward that the issues in Northern 
Ireland, segregation that still is very real in terms of the 
actual day-to-day lives hasn't been dealt with, either. And the 
idea that I think Mr. Savage brought up that, as we move 
forward on these issues and want to engage a new generation, we 
have to broaden our roles, too, in terms of other issues of 
interest that are just, some of them, existential like climate 
change, that can bring people together. Once people are 
together and working on those issues, that facilitates things 
greatly.
    We are also remembering here in our own history Jackie 
Robinson, a baseball player who broke the color barrier in 
Major League Baseball. And, you know, baseball was a common 
interest, but it was that intervention that helped, I think was 
a major point in our moving forward in our own country. And we 
saw the same thing in South Africa with soccer.
    But we have critical existential issues in front of us and 
things necessary for a generation of people's progress: 
education, housing issues that you mentioned. So, these are 
common areas that will bring people forth, I think, in a very 
meaningful way.
    But I think, fairly or unfairly, the success of the Good 
Friday Agreement in fully being implemented is going to rest on 
your generation. That is why I think this is so important. It 
is unfortunate that it has been the case, but I do believe you 
will be the ``make it or break it'' generation.
    And I became so concerned--and I think Dr. O'Lynn mentioned 
this in her testimony--when I began to hear years ago how a new 
generation of violence is springing forward. And that was a 
generation that did not have the direct connection to that time 
period of the Troubles. And that is something that should be of 
great concern as well.
    So, we have to come together on these issues. And I think, 
as we did with our past hearing, the idea of civic forums, 
engagement in that respect; the implementation of the Good 
Friday Agreement in all aspects has to be dealt with.
    And the timing of this hearing, it is coming at a very 
important time as well, because the elections are just days 
away. And when I was in London and spoke to Foreign Minister 
Truss about the urgency in dealing with some of the protocol 
issues in Brexit and getting it behind us before these 
elections, it was a great concern because we saw the government 
devolve around some of those issues. And I believe, all of us 
here believe that division is much deeper than the protocol 
issue.
    And if we cannot reconcile this, and the outcome of those 
elections should be, for instance, if Sinn Fein wins, and this 
is the first minister, is that going to result in a devolution 
again? Are we going to keep going backward in a cycle?
    So, what all of you have expressed here, all four of our 
witnesses identifying where we are in a very real sense, that 
is where you begin to move forward, acknowledging the fact that 
things have not been implemented; that we haven't gone forward 
with the things that are already on our plate before--we can 
pretend that we are moving forward without dealing with that, 
but these things have to be done. But it will be done with your 
generation.
    I think the programs that we had, like the Washington 
Ireland Program that Dr. O'Lynn participated in, she said today 
that changed her life. And look at how she has moved forward 
herself in a leadership role, trying to make those changes.
    And you two have, with your leadership and your connection 
with your organizations, you are doing the same thing. It is so 
important, and we are here to help.
    The United States, I take great pride anytime I am talking 
to someone from Ireland, when they say, ``You were the 
indispensable partner in the Good Friday Agreement,'' that is 
something that I think all of us here in Congress, as well as 
so many citizens in the United States, feel we are a part of 
that success. Well, if we are a part of it, I hope we can 
continue to be a part of it, and hopefully, become 
indispensable in terms of assisting all of you in what you have 
to do to make sure that is fully implemented, and then, go 
beyond there.
    So, this has been a very important hearing to me. I think 
it is an important hearing to those who care about the progress 
that is necessary in Ireland, given the fact that so much 
progress has already occurred.
    And I think a generation is necessary, not just to come 
together, but to move us forward on these other issues. I was 
first elected in the Massachusetts legislature when I was 23 
years old. And at that time, people said the biggest reason 
they shouldn't have elected me, I was too young. Hopefully, I 
will be out of here before they say I am too old.
    [Laughter.]
    But the real issue is this: that you are dedicating so much 
of your lives now and your attention, and your great talents, 
toward this. If we can be helpful--I think you heard from the 
members of this committee that asked questions the tone--in 
fact, some substance of those questions--was, indeed, what can 
we do to be helpful?
    I think we can engage. I think we could do things as we had 
planned, and hopefully, can reconstitute coming back, showing 
interest by visiting schools that have desegregated, albeit 
only 7 percent of them are. I think we can engage on issues of 
climate change together.
    And I think that a person very interested in this hearing 
today, who made an effort to come, was Ambassador Mulhall. And 
he is very importantly involved in promoting a group in the 
U.S. college system for Irish involvement for the American 
students. So, maybe that is another network to tap into as 
well. I will be talking with him later today.
    But, in any case, thank you for what you are doing. Thank 
you, Ms. Girvin. Thank you, Dr. O'Lynn.
    This has been a hearing where we took the virtual hearing 
and the physical hearing and put it together. I think, other 
than a few minor snags, it went very well.
    I want to thank you for being here. And we are here to 
continue to work together at a cause that not only is important 
to Ireland, but you could go all around the world, and you 
could do it in the United States.
    As we did with the Good Friday Agreement, when I go to 
other parts of the world where the causes of conflict seem 
hopeless, I always point to the Good Friday Agreement, but we 
have to finish the job and inspire not only young people in 
Ireland, but young people globally, and particularly young 
people here in the United States, to also engage in working 
together on those very important common goals.
    So, with that, this hearing is adjourned. Thank you. Thank 
you so much.
    [Whereupon, at 11:46 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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