[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                WHAT'S NEXT FOR LIBYA? THE PATH TO PEACE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
         MIDDLE EAST, NORTH AFRICA, AND GLOBAL COUNTERTERRORISM

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                            December 9, 2021

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-96

                               __________

        Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
        
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                                __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                       
                       
                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                  GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York, Chairman

BRAD SHERMAN, California              MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking 
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey                  Member
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia	      CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida	      STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
KAREN BASS, California		      SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts	      DARRELL ISSA, California
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island	      ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California		      LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas	              ANN WAGNER, Missouri
DINA TITUS, Nevada		      BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California		      BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania	      KEN BUCK, Colorado
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota	      TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota		      MARK GREEN, Tennessee
COLIN ALLRED, Texas		      ANDY BARR, Kentucky
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan		      GREG STEUBE, Florida
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia	      DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania	      AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey	      PETER MEIJER, Michigan
ANDY KIM, New Jersey	              NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
SARA JACOBS, California		      RONNY JACKSON, Texas
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina	      YOUNG KIM, California
JIM COSTA, California		      MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida
JUAN VARGAS, California		      JOE WILSON, South Carolina
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas		      
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois  

                    Jason Steinbaum, Staff Director
               Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
               
                                 ------                                

 Subcommittee on Middle East, North Africa, and Global Counterterrorism

                 THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida, Chairman

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia         JOE WILSON, South Carolina, 
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island            Ranking Member
TED LIEU, California		     SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
COLIN ALLRED, Texas		     ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey	     LEE ZELDIN, New York
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina	     BRIAN MAST, Florida
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts	     TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
BRAD SHERMAN, California	     GREG STEUBE, Florida
JUAN VARGAS, California		     RONNY JACKSON, Texas
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois	     MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida

                      Casey Kustin, Staff Director
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               WITNESSES

Sasahara, Karen, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for North 
  Africa, Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, U.S. Department of 
  State..........................................................     7
Doherty, Megan, Deputy Assistant Administrator, Bureau for the 
  Middle East, U.S. Agency for International Development.........    11

                                APPENDIX

Hearing Notice...................................................    31
Hearing Minutes..................................................    32
Hearing Attendance...............................................    33

                   STATEMENT SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Statement submitted for the record from Representative Connolly..    34

 
                WHAT'S NEXT FOR LIBYA? THE PATH TO PEACE

                       Thursday, December 9, 2021

                          House of Representatives,
             Subcommittee on the Middle East, North
                Africa and Global Counterterrorism,
                      Committee on Foreign Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m., via 
Webex, Hon. Theodore E. Deutch (chairman of the subcommittee) 
presiding.
    Mr. Deutch. The Committee on the Middle East, North Africa, 
and Global Counterterrorism will come to order.
    Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the subcommittee at any point. All members will have 
5 days to submit statements, extraneous material, and questions 
for the record, subject to the length limitation of the rules.
    As a reminder to members, please keep your video function 
on at all times, even when you're not recognized by the chair. 
Members are responsible for muting and unmuting themselves, and 
please remember to mute yourself after you finish speaking, 
consistent with H. Res. 8 and the accompanying regulations.
    Staff will only mute members and witnesses as appropriate 
when they are not under recognition to eliminate background 
noise and not to prevent embarrassing statements.
    I see that we have a quorum, and I will now recognize 
myself for opening remarks.
    Pursuant to notice, we are holding a hearing on the current 
situation in Libya and U.S. policy toward Libya.
    I want to extend a warm welcome to Ms. Sasahara and Ms. 
Doherty. Thank you for joining us today. This is a momentous 
time for Libya. The stakes for U.S. interest in the Libyan 
people are very high.
    Since the events of the Arab Spring and the subsequent fall 
of Muammar Gaddafi, there's been so much hope for the Libyan 
people as they attempted to transition to democracy. The 
fracturing of the country in 2019 resulted in violent conflict 
and good hopes of progress on pause as foreign actors seized 
attempts to jockey for influence in Libya.
    However, significant progress has been made over the past 
year and a half: an effective cease-fire since October 2020, 
the establishment of a joint military commission to address 
security disputes, the restoration of oil production, and the 
establishment of the U.N.-led Libyan Political Dialogue Forum 
which generated a credible political roadmap and led to the 
inauguration on March 15th of an interim Libyan government of 
National Unity that had parliamentary support.
    I commend the Libyan people and their representatives for 
taking these important and necessary steps, and I would note 
that these achievements are in no small part thanks to the 
efforts of the U.N. Support Mission in Libya--UNSMIL--and the 
engagement of the State Department and USAID.
    When the interim government was inaugurated, there was a 
renewed glimmer of optimism about Libya's future. For the first 
time in years there was hope that Libya's divided institutions 
might find a way to unify and usher lasting stability to the 
country and that Presidential and parliamentary elections 
scheduled for later this month would mark a pivotal turning 
point on Libya's path to peace and prosperity.
    But the positive developments do not tell the full story 
and much of the promise of the political process has not yet 
materialized.
    Libya's elections are, indeed, scheduled to begin on 
December 24th. But the long-awaited vote faces numerous 
challenges, including unresolved questions about the relevant 
election laws and the eligibility of candidates.
    Despite their enthusiasm for holding a vote, some Libyans 
and analysts have called for postponing the election to allow 
more time for legal and logistical preparation.
    Meanwhile, the U.N.'s top envoy for Libya announced his 
resignation last week. Against the backdrop of such 
uncertainty, I hope our witnesses will address what the U.S. 
sees as the challenge of ensuring free, fair, and credible 
elections in such a compressed timeframe.
    There are two remaining long-standing challenges that have 
festered over the last year: decrepit public services, more 
than half a million migrants, many of whom are still kept in 
inhumane detention centers, nearly a million people in 
desperate need of humanitarian assistance, and persistent human 
rights abuses, which seemingly occur with impunity.
    We need to press harder for a humane migration policy in 
Libya, including through quick implementation of the U.N.'s 
plan for closing migrant detention centers.
    I look forward to hearing from the witnesses about this 
and, in addition, the tools the Administration is using to 
promote accountability for human rights abuses, fight 
corruption, and improve governance, public services, and 
economic recovery in Libya.
    These are all essential ingredients for promoting national 
reconciliation and sustainable peace. Progress in securing the 
withdrawal of foreign actors and mercenaries from Libya remains 
elusive.
    The estimated 20,000 foreign mercenaries including the 
long-reported presence of the Russian Wagner Group and fighters 
who remain on Libyan soil are in violation of the cease-fire 
agreement and the U.N. arms embargo. Their presence aggravates 
the conflict, exacerbates humanitarian needs and human rights 
abuses, and it undermines Libyan sovereignty.
    On this front, I encourage the Administration to apply all 
necessary leverage to allow for the swift departure of foreign 
mercenaries from Libyan soil. We must ensure the terms of the 
U.N. arms embargo are enforced.
    As we know, foreign weapons have long found their way into 
Libya, and I hope our witnesses will confirm that tough 
bilateral and multilateral diplomacy has been used and will be 
used to pressure all outside powers involved to respect the 
arms embargo.
    More fundamentally, we are faced with the stark reality 
that Libya's lawless armed groups have entrenched themselves 
and expanded their influence over the past year, placing 
themselves in a strong position to shape the election's 
aftermath based on their interest rather than the people's 
will.
    We need not wait until December 24th to find examples of 
what this looks like. Already we have heard accounts of judges 
handling election-related cases being threatened. Bearing all 
these challenges in mind, I would like to call attention to the 
bipartisan Libya Stabilization Act, which I introduced with 
Ranking Member Wilson, Mr. Lieu, and Mr. Malinowski. The bill 
passed the House in September and is now awaiting consideration 
in the Senate.
    Our legislation authorizes significant U.S. support for 
good governance, anti-corruption, elections, and economic 
assistance. It also seeks to impose targeted sanctions on 
individuals who commit human rights abuses in Libya, violate 
the arms embargo, or support foreign military intervention and 
militias.
    The bill demonstrates Congress' interest in ending foreign 
intervention, consolidating Libya's political gains, and 
encouraging long-term peace and stability, and I hope our 
Senate friends move swiftly to take up this legislation.
    I was glad to see on October 26th the Administration 
sanctioned Osama Al Kuni Ibrahim, a migrant-smuggling kingpin 
who is responsible for the systematic exploitation and abuse of 
African migrants.
    I'm encouraged by this action. I look forward to hearing 
from the witnesses about further employment of the 
Administration's existing tools and the identification of areas 
where greater congressional support may be needed.
    Finally, Libya's progress over the past last year, year and 
a half, is fragile and situation remains tenuous, I commend the 
Administration for returning U.S. attention to Libya and 
deploying significant diplomatic and economic tools to help the 
government of National Unity succeed.
    But, clearly, there's much work to be done and I look 
forward to hearing from our two qualified witnesses about how 
the Administration views these challenges and is prepared to 
work with Congress and the international community to address 
them.
    I will now recognize our acting ranking member, my friend, 
Mr. Burchett, for purposes of making an opening statement.
    Mr. Burchett. Thank you to my good friend, Chairman Ted 
Deutch, and I want to thank you for holding this important 
hearing today. There's much optimism for the future of the 
Libyan people, but the next steps, I feel like, will be very 
critical.
    As Libyans prepare for elections this month, it is critical 
that these be undertaken without the presence, of course, of 
interfering efforts by foreign governments. There are far too 
many foreign fighters, mercenaries, and other foreign forces 
still in Libya, each asserting the interests of specific 
regional and global powers.
    Russia, in particular, continues to exert its malign 
influence through private military contractors despite denying 
any involvement. A political solution is the only way forward 
in Libya. Prolonged fighting only empowers Russia and fosters 
conditions for conflict and chaos.
    Unfortunately, Russia is not interested in solutions and 
continues to back the warlord, General Khalifa Haftar, of the 
Libyan National Army, whose forces continue to be involved in 
serious human rights abuses and war crimes.
    I'm also more than concerned about human rights abuses by 
the Turkish-backed Syrian mercenaries. I look forward to 
hearing from our witnesses today about how the Administration 
is approaching this challenged set of issues.
    I thank our witnesses for their services and I also want to 
thank, again, my good friend, Chairman Ted Deutch, for putting 
on this meeting for us, and thank you all very much.
    And I yield back.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you very much, Mr. Burchett.
    I will now turn to our witnesses. Let me remind the 
witnesses to limit your testimony to 5 minutes. Without 
objection, your prepared written statements will be made part 
of the hearing record, and we're really grateful for your being 
with us today.
    First, Ms. Karen Sasahara has served as the Deputy 
Assistant Secretary of State for North Africa since November 
2020.
    She is an accomplished member of the Senior Foreign 
Service, previously served as the charges d'affaires at the 
U.S. Embassy in Oman as well as Consul General in Jerusalem. 
Ms. Sasahara holds a Master's degree from the George Washington 
University, a Bachelor's degree from University of Wisconsin 
Milwaukee.
    Ms. Sasahara, many of us have had the pleasure of seeing 
you in the region. It is great to welcome you to the committee.
    Also with us today Ms. Megan Doherty. Megan Doherty has 
served as USAID's Deputy Assistant Administrator of the Bureau 
for the Middle East since February 2020. In this position, she 
provides management and oversight of USAID programs across 
Libya, Tunisia, and the Palestinian territories.
    Before this current position, Ms. Doherty served as 
director for North Africa on the National Security Council as 
well as Senior Advisor in the State Department's Near Eastern 
Affairs Bureau.
    Ms. Doherty, you have previously testified before this 
subcommittee in a personal capacity, and it's a pleasure to 
welcome you back as part of the Biden Administration.
    Thanks to everyone for being here today. I recognize the 
witnesses for 5 minutes each and without objection, again, your 
prepared statement will be made part of the record.
    Ms. Sasahara, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF KAREN SASAHARA, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 
 STATE FOR NORTH AFRICA, BUREAU OF NEAR EASTERN AFFAIRS, U.S. 
                      DEPARTMENT OF STATE

    Ms. Sasahara. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Ranking 
Member Burchett and members of the committee for this 
opportunity to discuss Libya's path forward.
    As we mark the 1-year anniversary of the Libyan cease-fire 
agreement and approach the upcoming Libyan Presidential and 
parliamentary elections, Libya is at a critical turning point.
    A decade of civil conflict has deepened Libya's 
fragmentation and exacerbated local tensions. The United States 
has partnered with Libyan government institutions, the private 
sector, entrepreneurs, and civil society groups to mitigate 
drivers of violence, preserve the momentum of the political 
process, and improve Libyan lives.
    The United States stands with the Libyan people as they 
work to establish lasting peace, security, and prosperity. We 
share their aspirations for a sovereign, inclusive, stable, and 
unified country in control of its own affairs.
    Vice President Harris, Secretary Blinken, and U.S. Special 
Envoy and Ambassador to Libya, Richard Norland, have rallied 
the international community to support Libyan plans for free 
and fair elections, which is critical to establishing a pathway 
to peace.
    With over 2.8 million Libyans registered to vote, there was 
an overwhelming desire to hold elections. Libya's High National 
Election Commission is aiming to hold the first round of 
Presidential elections on December 24th.
    We expect the second round of Presidential elections to be 
held simultaneously with parliamentary elections in late 
February.
    In addition to the technical support the United States has 
provided to the commission to promote free and fair elections 
with broad participation, the United States is also engaging 
closely with our international partners and Libyan political 
leaders to make clear that there will be consequences for any 
actors who undermine the elections or incite violence.
    While the October 2020 cease-fire remains in effect, 
certain foreign powers continue to exploit the conflict and 
undermine Libyan sovereignty. The United States and 
international partners oppose all foreign military intervention 
in Libya.
    The U.N. Security Council passed the U.N. Security Council 
Resolution 2570 In April, which calls for the departure of all 
foreign forces without delay. This includes Russian mercenary 
proxy forces, Turkish forces and their proxies, and all other 
foreign military forces, mercenaries, and foreign fighters, 
including those from Syria, Chad, Niger, and Sudan.
    Russia's Wagner Group has been involved in facilitating 
multiple violations of U.N. Security Council resolutions and 
has been connected to human rights abuses in multiple 
countries.
    Wagner continues to both destabilize Libya and use it as a 
platform to expand Russia's destabilizing influence in Africa. 
During the Libyan-led Stabilization Conference held in Tripoli 
this past October, the East and West military leaders 
comprising the 5+5 Joint Military Commission announced an 
action plan for the withdrawal of foreign fighters, 
mercenaries, and forces. The United States strongly supports 
and commends the efforts of the 5+5 and encourages the swift 
implementation of its action plan.
    Successful Libyan elections beginning on December 24th and 
a transition to a new government offer the best opportunity to 
curtail Russia's expansion into the Sahel and to remove Wagner 
mercenaries from Libya.
    The United States continues to actively engage with our 
international partners in support of the withdrawal of all 
foreign forces. This will give the new Libyan government a 
chance to reestablish its sovereignty and rebuild a balanced 
range of security cooperation partnerships that will serve 
Libyan interests and promote regional stability.
    We support the inclusion of Libyan civil society and women 
leaders in the ongoing political process, including to ensure 
stronger accountability for crimes committed in the country.
    We were appalled by reports earlier in the year of mass 
graves in Tarhuna, and recent allegations of violence and abuse 
against migrants are similarly shocking. We need to make clear 
that those who commit human rights violations and abuses such 
as unlawful killings, torture, and forced disappearances must 
be held accountable.
    Accountability for all responsible actors is key to 
strengthening the durability of a political solution, providing 
the Libyan people a genuine path to national reconciliation and 
justice.
    Our commitment and partnership are demonstrated through 
long-standing U.S. assistance. Since 2011, the United States 
has provided approximately $900 million in foreign assistance 
for Libya, including nearly $400 million in U.S. stabilization, 
economic, and development support, $160 million in security 
assistance, and over $350 million in humanitarian assistance.
    Libya also participates in the U.S.-funded International 
Organization for Migration Africa regional migration program, 
which builds national capacity to manage migration and increase 
regional cooperation on migration issues.
    The challenges that remain are daunting, but it is hard not 
to be moved by the Libyan people's determination. After 
everything that they have faced, the Libyan people now have the 
best opportunity in a decade to lay the foundation for a stable 
democratic society.
    Now is the time for Libyan political leaders to seek 
consensus, finalize preparations for national elections, and 
fulfill their commitment to the Libyan people to hold the vote 
on time.
    Thank you once again for this opportunity to speak with you 
today and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Sasahara follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you very much, Ms. Sasahara.
    Ms. Doherty, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF MEGAN DOHERTY, DEPUTY ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, 
   BUREAU FOR THE MIDDLE EAST, U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL 
                          DEVELOPMENT

    Ms. Doherty. Chairman Deutch, Ranking Member Burchett, 
members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
speak with you today about Libya's path forward and the role of 
the U.S. Agency for International Development.
    Libya's political transition is neither easy nor direct. 
The Libyan people have now endured a decade of insecurity, 
declining public services, and economic and government 
dysfunction.
    But despite these challenges, the Libyan people want to 
move forward. The nationwide cease-fire that was agreed to in 
October 2020 has, largely, held and today nearly 70 percent of 
Libyan support holding elections. In fact, 90 percent of 
Libyans who registered to vote have already collected their ID 
cards.
    And while the challenges should not be understated and 
there are deep political divisions, it is worth noting that 
those disagreements are taking place in courtrooms instead of 
battlefields.
    That said, significant challenges remain in Libya. The 
United Nations estimates that nearly 900,000 people are still 
in need of humanitarian assistance. There are more than 600,000 
migrants and 41,000 registered refugees and asylum seekers who 
are uniquely vulnerable and subject to egregious human rights 
abuses.
    The recent conflict caused severe declines in services and 
access to water and sanitation, and COVID has further worsened 
the country's struggles. In some places, food costs for basic 
items more than doubled their prepandemic levels.
    So in response to all of this, USAID's goal is to advance 
Libya's ability to establish a unified government capable of 
transparently managing its resources and serving its citizens.
    Thanks to the generosity of Congress and the American 
people, USAID has partnered with the Libyan people to address 
these challenges to improve conditions and to strengthen 
prospects for longer-term stability.
    In the last decade, USAID worked with the Libyans people to 
unify Libyans eastern and western power grids, decreasing 
blackouts. Following the liberation of Sirte in 2016 from ISIS, 
U.S. assistance helped stabilize the city and helped 90 percent 
of the people who had been driven from their homes by terror 
and conflict return.
    USAID has also trained and empowered thousands of women, 
young people, and civil society activists to participate in 
politics and make their voices heard. Most recently, in 
response to COVID-19, USAID has helped Libya's health sector 
fight back.
    Right now, we are working to support the Libyan people with 
their aspiration for national elections. While elections alone 
are insufficient, they are a crucial step forward for Libya and 
we are committed to ensuring that they are held as 
transparently, credibly, and securely as possible.
    To that end, USAID has partnered with the High National 
Election Commission--HNEC--on all aspects of the election 
process from voter registration and ID cards to cybersecurity.
    USAID has equipped HNEC field offices and polling stations 
across the country. We have worked with interior ministry 
officials on risk mitigation and election security planning, 
and we have trained judges and lawyers on election dispute 
resolution.
    In addition, to counter a dangerous uptick in 
disinformation, we have worked with the Election Commission to 
set up a voter information hotline and with civil society to 
make sure that Libyans are able to fact check rumors in real 
time and have access to credible information.
    Several challenges remain. Threats of violence and 
intimidation have risen against HNEC, against judges, and 
against candidates, particularly women, and spoilers continue 
to try and disrupt the process. And all of this reinforces just 
how important U.S. assistance and advocacy are to enable 
compromise.
    In addition to supporting elections, USAID is committed to 
supporting the Libyan people in their broader aspirations for 
stability, accountability, and inclusive governance. Beyond 
elections, Libya will continue to face an array of challenges.
    Government institutions will need to act swiftly to build 
trust and deliver improvements for the Libyan people. USAID 
stands ready to support these efforts.
    Thank you for your time today and for your continued 
support for our work in Libya. I look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Doherty follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Deutch. Thanks so much for your testimony, Ms. Doherty.
    I will now recognize members for 5 minutes each, and 
pursuant to House rules all time yielded is for purposes of 
questioning our witnesses. Because of the virtual format of 
this hearing, I'll recognize members by committee seniority, 
alternating between Democrats and Republicans.
    If you miss your turn, please let our staff know and we'll 
circle back to you. If you seek recognition, you must unmute 
your microphone and address the chair verbally.
    And I will defer to later and I will start by yielding to 
Mr. Cicilline for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Chairman Deutch and Ranking 
Member Wilson, for holding this hearing and thank you to our 
two witnesses. This is very useful.
    Ms. Sasahara--I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly--in 
October, the Human Rights Council voted unanimously to renew 
the mandate of an independent fact-finding mission, which has 
investigated and reported on extensive allegations of war 
crimes and crimes against humanity in Libya. As part of this 
work, the mission has assembled a list of perpetrators 
responsible for gross human rights violations in the country.
    Would you speak a little bit to how the United States is 
working to support these efforts to really hold individuals 
responsible for committing international crimes in Libya and 
how our new reentry into the Human Rights Council in January 
2022 after 3 years of absence might facilitate that effort and, 
you know, just sort of what is underway and how we can make 
certain that it is successful?
    Ms. Sasahara. Thank you very much for that question, sir.
    This is very much at the core of our policy in Libya. It is 
a deviation and distraction from the real task at hand.
    In the Berlin Two and at the Paris Conferences that were 
held this past June and in November, respectively, we called on 
the Libyan authorities to respect and fulfill their obligations 
under international rights and humanitarian law, and we have 
condemned all violations and abuses of migrants, migrant 
smuggling, and human trafficking.
    We do support the U.N. fact-finding mission on Libya and 
its unhindered access to all Libyan territory to carry out 
their work. This also includes support for the Berlin Process, 
the international followup committee for Libya, humanitarian 
law, and the Human Rights Working Group to promote 
accountability through direct engagement with Libyan leaders.
    We are also providing funding to the U.N. agencies and 
civil societies to document human rights abuses through our 
department's annual reporting on human rights trafficking and 
religious freedom.
    It is extremely important that we have rejoined this body 
in Geneva. It is very much at the heart of this 
Administration's foreign policy.
    I believe the President said that, Secretary Blinken had 
said that, and this enables us to get back at the table to be 
able to put some action behind those words, and Libya is 
definitely on our screen.
    We continue to have discussions through the Ambassador's 
Special Envoy Norland directly with the most senior Libyan 
leadership and to consult constantly with our partners, whether 
it's the closest partners, the Berlin Conference, and those to 
continue for a full court press.
    Mr. Cicilline. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Doherty, thank you for your testimony as well. You 
noted in your testimony more than 900,000 people are still in 
need of some form of humanitarian assistance in Libya, and 
while USAID and the U.N. are leading the effort to help supply 
aid on the ground, instability caused by the election could 
further jeopardize vulnerable populations in the country.
    And so would you speak to USAID's preparation to work with 
the U.N. to really scale up humanitarian activities in Libya if 
fighting does break out during or after the election and do you 
have the resources you need to provide the level of assistance 
that will be necessary if that does happen?
    Ms. Doherty. Thank you for your question. There's always a 
risk that elections can stoke tensions or be exploited by 
spoilers and, as we noted earlier, the environment is fragile.
    But we are doing everything in our power to ensure that the 
Libyan elections are set up for as much success as possible, 
and our goal is to minimize the potential for violence.
    So we, to that effect, are working with the Election 
Commission and the Interior Ministry on a joint elections 
security operations center. We have helped establish a national 
election security plan and provided training on election 
security for HNEC officials.
    We have also helped the Interior Ministry set up an 
election violence monitoring dashboard to provide early warning 
of potential violence and to help them respond.
    In addition, on the civil society side we are supporting 
strong anti-violence messaging and public awareness campaigns 
throughout the country. So our goal is to keep Libyans 
participating in the process and keep the process peaceful.
    Now, these are all technical solutions, and the drivers of 
violence are inherently political. So this makes the diplomatic 
efforts that DAS Sasahara was speaking to and our support for 
the U.N.-led negotiations even more important.
    And in addition to all of this, we will continue to provide 
robust humanitarian assistance as needed to the Libyan people; 
and beyond that we have flexible assistance so we're able to 
support conflict resolution in local communities, early 
warning, and in addition, public information campaigns and 
significant support to Libyan civil society to encourage peace 
and resolution.
    Mr. Cicilline. Thank you so much for your work, and thank 
you, Mr. Chairman. And with that, I yield back.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Mr. Cicilline.
    Mr. Burchett, you're recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Burchett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to note that 
it's pretty cool that you wait to the last to go for the 
questioning. You miss all the good--then all the good questions 
are taken. You've just got to kind of get involved in casual 
conversation.
    Mr. Cicilline. If you're as brilliant as Ted Deutch you do 
not have to worry about them.
    Mr. Deutch. All right. Everyone stop.
    Mr. Burchett, you're recognized.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Deutch. This is eating away your time. Go ahead.
    Mr. Burchett. Thank you, brother.
    Ms. Sasahara--I think I said that right. I do not know if I 
did, but my name gets murdered all the time anyway.
    So does Libya have a chance at remaining stable should 
Gaddafi or Haftar win the election? What is the outcome should 
Gaddafi win and what about Haftar?
    Ms. Sasahara. Thank you for that question. That, I think, 
is the million-dollar question and I think it's one that every 
Libyan is asking themselves, whether it's the Libyan population 
but also the powers that be.
    I think they are surprised, I think, but they're also 
contemplating what that could mean and whether that is good for 
the country. I think that the chairman alluded to it before 
about the judiciary rulings and I think that that is underway. 
The High National Election Commissioner is looking at that as 
well and there is a lot of intense consultation that is going 
on in terms of the qualifications of the candidates.
    Mr. Burchett. Ma'am, also, but do you think we should be 
concerned with Turkey's extensive presence and influence in 
Libya?
    Ms. Sasahara. I think that--in our consultations with 
Turkey directly they understand that foreign forces need to 
withdraw, to leave from Libya. That is in the October 23d, 
2020, cease-fire agreement. It's in the UNSCR's 2570.
    We believe that they are aware of that and we continue to 
discuss that with them and as well as our other partners about 
that.
    They understand how the Libyan leadership and the Libyan 
people feel about the withdrawal of all foreign forces, 
militaries, fighters, and proxies.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. I think you sort of answered this, but 
could you describe in a little further detail our efforts to 
negotiate Turkey's exit? Should other international forces exit 
as well?
    Ms. Sasahara. I think what we're doing is just talking to 
the leadership in those capitals to try to coordinate a 
balanced and a synchronized withdrawal of all of the foreign 
forces. It's quite a task, as you can imagine. I think there's 
a little bit of distraction by some people from the political 
developments.
    But we have to continue on this track. All of these tracks 
are crucial--the political, the military track. There are 
certain things that you cannot do on one track if certain 
things on another track do not happen.
    And so we feel very, very strongly that this must happen. 
But I think, as you know, there are senior levels of leadership 
that are questioning that. But we continue to work with them 
very intensely on a sequenced balancing synchronized withdrawal 
process.
    Mr. Burchett. How do you feel the State Department is 
planning to counter the increased Russian involvement and 
influence in Libya, ma'am?
    Ms. Sasahara. Yes. It is a destabilizing force. We have 
said that binationally. We have said that in multilateral fora. 
We have--the United States itself has sanctioned Yevgeny 
Prigozhin and the Wagner Group.
    We will continue to push and to consult with our partners. 
The Libyans themselves want it. Their senior leadership has 
traveled to Ankara and to Moscow to relay that directly. I 
cannot think of anything more definitive and authoritative than 
the Libyan people and the Libyan leadership making that 
request.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. Real quick, Ms. Doherty, can you describe 
how the U.S. is working to help combat the human trafficking in 
Libya in North--excuse me, North Africa, overall?
    Ms. Doherty. Thank you. I'll actually redirect that 
question to DAS Sasahara, given the State Department's role in 
human trafficking.
    Ms. Sasahara. Thank you. Again, as I've said, we worked on 
that binationally or nationally just in terms of the programs 
that we have that--to provide funding to Libya to provide 
humanitarian services.
    We have partnerships with UNHCR as well as IOM to provide 
humanitarian services and assistance to the migrant population. 
It is appalling what is going on, as I've said in my testimony.
    We have talked and will continue to talk and press the 
Libyans to abide by international humanitarian law. I was happy 
to hear that they did restart or reestablish the repatriation 
flights, which I think is very, very important for those that 
have decided they would like to return home. They can do so in 
a safe manner.
    But for those that are left behind, as my colleague at 
USAID has said, it's far from over. We work with our colleagues 
to provide assistance. We work to ascertain or to monitor what 
is going on in the detention centers.
    I think it's not just a question of talk, though. We have 
sanctioned one of the directors of the migration center, Mr. 
Kuni Ibrahim, for the horrible abuses--physical, sexual 
abuses--that were going on in that migration center. We will 
continue with that. We will continue to use that tool as the 
most effective way to stop these odious practices.
    Mr. Burchett. Thank you, ma'am. I believe I've gone over 
now and if I haven't, I yield back my time, Chairman Deutch. 
Thank you, brother.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Ranking Member Burchett.
    Mr. Connolly, you're recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Let me ask a devil's advocate question. I will stipulate 
that U.S. policy favors having an election and the withdrawal 
of foreign forces who might have a malign impact on those 
elections.
    But sometimes having elections in countries that do not 
have any democratic tradition can actually lead to more 
instability because they're not ready and can, frankly, empower 
and embolden those forces that want to control the central 
government.
    And so how do you answer--you know, with the best of 
intentions, the United States may find itself here supporting a 
actual element of instability by having elections, even though 
our motives are, presumably, good, but the unintended 
consequences may, in fact, contribute to further instability in 
a place like Libya?
    Ms. Doherty. So we will support our Libyan partners. If 
their expert determination is that a delay is necessary, we 
will support them and we will work with them to address 
whatever the technical issues that they identify are.
    Mr. Connolly. Excuse me. Excuse me, Ms. Doherty. My 
question isn't what their intention is or what--you know, we're 
going to support whatever our partners support. It is, do we, 
in fact, spend any time looking at the unintended consequences 
that could occur and how do we address that?
    Ms. Doherty. Yes. It's our responsibility to identify any 
number of outcomes and to proactively plan for them. And on the 
assistance side, we have maintained flexible approaches.
    We're supporting violence prevention. We're working in 
local communities on conflict resolution, on early warning 
mechanisms. We're also providing support to the U.N.-led 
process to make sure that if there are any disruptions we can 
also help the process get back on track.
    Mr. Connolly. And is it our understanding that other armed 
groups operating in Libya are going to allow an election to 
take place in the territory they control and/or abide by the 
results of those elections?
    Ms. Doherty. So our goal with our assistance is to make 
sure that Libyans continue to participate in the process 
peacefully. That's why----
    Mr. Connolly. Yes. That's not my question. My question 
isn't about our goal. My question is about our analytical 
assessment of the situation on the ground.
    Ms. Doherty. We're clear eyed about the challenges and we 
do expect that actors will continue to disrupt the process, and 
that is why we have been doing the contingency planning. But I 
know my State Department colleague has more.
    Mr. Connolly. Ms. Sasahara?
    Ms. Sasahara. Right. No, this--thank you very much, 
Congressman. That's a really good question and this is 
something that we do spend a lot of time with, you know, 
particularly those that have kind of seen this show before in 
other countries in the region where we have been.
    Mr. Connolly. Right.
    Ms. Sasahara. And you're right, this isn't a question of 
just here's a ballot box, let's have an election. This is a 
profound transformation, that Libya is going from a system of 
single dictatorial strongman model from 1969 with Gaddafi up 
until 2011, and then a little rough ride forward.
    So you're right. What are the contingencies that are going 
to happen here? How can this go wrong when you--how can it go 
right if you do not have that history there.
    This is actually what's been really actually kind of 
gratifying and a little bit surprising, not to be 
disrespectful. But you saw, as I said before, just under 3 
million Libyans, they registered to vote.
    They know what's going on with the militias, all of that. 
They've seen it. They've lived through this and they're, like, 
I am going to vote. I'm going to have this right. They know 
what it means.
    The High National Election Commission has been working with 
the assistance of USAID to get down all of the logistics of an 
election that you would see, something--I was really surprised 
to hear how far along they had been because I hadn't heard 
anything. And I'm, like, yes, they've got the observers. 
They've got the polls. They've got the security. Every single 
thing, checking every box down there.
    So the logistics, the administrative, was really right on 
target. They know what they want. We have seen this 
anecdotally, we want to vote, and they're actually quite--
they're watching what we say. They're watching what every 
Libyan politician says about the elections because they want it 
to happen.
    So we think that they want it, they've work toward it, they 
are continuing to work toward it. Even with surprise 
candidates, the desire is still there. But the leadership--the 
Libyan leadership is very much aware of what the public 
sentiment is and, by turn, the militia leadership is aware of 
what the public sentiment is.
    So you're looking at kind of a pause and a quiet, a little 
bit of uncertainty as people look around. But that electoral 
process machine is moving forward.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you. That's very helpful and 
reassuring. Because, you know, the United States needs to be 
very clear eyed when we decide to do something like this and 
get behind it.
    We cannot engage in magical thinking. There's a difference 
between what we want and the reality we face, and our foreign 
policy with respect to Libya or anywhere else needs to be very 
clear eyed, and I'm reassured by your answer. Thank you. I 
yield back.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Mr. Connolly.
    Mr. Mast, you're recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Mast, I think you're muted.
    Mr. Mast, are you talking to us even----
    OK. Mr. Malinowski, you're recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Malinowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to our 
witnesses.
    First, I just want to say in general that I applaud your 
efforts both at the State Department and USAID to support these 
elections and the Libyan people as they try to emerge from a 
decade of conflict.
    I would recall that the last time we supported the Libyan 
people in holding elections they did an absolutely marvelous 
and spectacular job, surprising virtually every skeptic, 
including me, at that time. So let's hope that happens again.
    I do want to come back, though, with you, Ms. Sasahara, to 
the question of foreign interference and our determination to 
hold people accountable for human rights abuses.
    We talk about Russia, we talk about the Wagner group, and 
we should, but it's also easy to do so because it's easy to 
beat up on Russia. It's easy to sanction Russian entities. We 
have been doing it across the board for many years.
    But let me ask you some tougher questions in this regard. 
Has the government of the United Arab Emirates ever 
acknowledged to us that they misused U.S.-provided equipment, 
including C-17 transport aircraft to ship weapons and supplies 
to the Haftar forces in Libya?
    Ms. Sasahara. I'm not aware of any conversation that they 
would have had with us about that issue.
    Mr. Malinowski. Well, would we have had a conversation with 
them about that issue?
    Ms. Sasahara. I do not know.
    Mr. Malinowski. So it's been reported to the U.N. Security 
Council, acknowledged by DOD Inspector General reports, that 
the UAE was using our equipment to funnel masses of military 
equipment to the Haftar forces alongside Russia and we have 
never had a conversation with the UAE about that?
    Ms. Sasahara. I'm not saying, sir, that we didn't have a 
conversation. I just--I myself am not aware of that.
    Mr. Malinowski. Well, I hope you would get back to us on 
that, because that's surprising. I mean, would it be 
appropriate for us to fulfill additional requests from the UAE 
for that kind of equipment including, for example, C-17s if 
they do not acknowledge having misused them in the past?
    Ms. Sasahara. No, I that's a good question.
    Congressman, all of our sales come with a lot of conditions 
and a lot of discussions beforehand, and there are a lot of 
legal requirements, as you know, everything from the SU-35 that 
we sell, and that's all part of the discussion, and I'm going 
to assume that all of that is part of the discussion. It's not 
just an assumption. It is a legal requirement how our equipment 
is sold and how our technology is used.
    Mr. Malinowski. OK. Well, I'd like to ask you to followup 
with us specifically on the C-17s and what they have 
acknowledged to us because I think that's important.
    The U.N. Panel of Experts, as you know, has also 
extensively reported to the Security Council about the role of 
private companies, including those based in our Gulf allies, 
including the UAE, in having illegally funneled weapons to 
warring parties in Libya, and, you know, some of those 
companies include Emirati companies like Lancaster 6, Opus 
Capital Assets, which funded and directed provision of 
helicopters, drones, cyber capabilities to the Haftar forces.
    There was another company called Black Shield Security, 
which deceived Sudanese men into--by telling them that they 
were going to just do private security work and in the Emirates 
but, in fact, they were flown to fight alongside the Haftar 
forces in Libya.
    The Administration has authority to sanction arms embargo 
violators and the House-adopted version of the NDAA asked you 
all to review companies listed in the Panel of Experts' report 
under that sanctions authority.
    Is that something you are looking at, and if not, why not?
    Ms. Sasahara. I think that we're always looking at that, 
particularly the Panel of Experts' reports, and looking at 
sanctions, sanctions busters, and how we can remedy that. There 
is no role for those kinds of companies in Libya. There's no 
role for that exploitation of Sudanese to be used as cannon 
fodder. That's--it's not acceptable. That is not going to bring 
peace and stability. So we work----
    Mr. Malinowski. OK.
    Ms. Sasahara [continuing]. Through U.S., United Nations, 
with the Panel of Experts. We work with our colleagues to 
monitor that, and I do want to get back to you, as you said 
before, about the conversation with the UAE and find out. But 
that's----
    Mr. Malinowski. Thank you.
    Ms. Sasahara [continuing]. There's no role for them.
    Mr. Malinowski. Could I ask you to get back to us on 
companies specifically listed in the Panel of Experts' report 
and just to update us on whether there is serious consideration 
of using the sanctions authorities?
    Again, it is always easier to sanction a Russian than 
somebody from a country that we consider a partner. I get that, 
diplomatically. But I hope you would agree that in this case it 
shouldn't matter.
    If there's a private entity that was involved in these arms 
embargo violations it should be treated equally, no matter 
where it comes from. Would you agree with that?
    Ms. Sasahara. Well, I understand your point on that very, 
very clearly. You know, sanctions are sanctions. So we will get 
back to you. Thank you.
    Mr. Malinowski. I yield back.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Mr. Malinowski.
    Before we go to Ms. Manning, we'll see if Mr. Mast would 
like to be recognized.
    [No response.]
    Mr. Deutch. Ms. Manning, you're recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this very 
important hearing, and thank you to the witnesses.
    Ms. Sasahara, can you talk to us about how the 
Administration is working to address and remove the presence of 
Russian-backed forces from Libya?
    Ms. Sasahara. Thank you, Congresswoman. Yes, as I mentioned 
a little bit earlier, what we have done directly the United 
States has sanctioned the Wagner Group.
    We have sanctioned the group itself and, of course, its 
leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, and I believe there are other 
countries that have done that as well. I think the U.N. has. We 
are going to continue to push and to support the Libyan efforts 
to do such.
    I mentioned a little earlier that shortly after they were 
sworn in, I think, that they foreign minister and the prime 
minister themselves traveled to make that point that they want 
all foreign forces out of Libya, and that actually is a direct 
reflection of what the Libyan people themselves want.
    They want everybody gone. They want the opportunity to 
rebuild without having these kind of nefarious forces that are 
just pushing their own agendas or using Libya for their own 
regional purposes. So we will to push on that.
    Ms. Manning. OK. Are those efforts having any impact? Are 
you seeing any result of what you've just described?
    Ms. Sasahara. I think that they are. I think that there 
is--it is not a wide open space or free fire zone that Wagner 
works in there. There are limits on what they can do and there 
are, certainly, limits and the Libyan people themselves have 
been very vocal about what they do or do not want to see in 
their country.
    Ms. Manning. Can you talk to us about the extent to which 
the arms embargo on Libya is being enforced and what actions 
we're taking to get countries, including some of our partners, 
to stop sending arms to Libya?
    Ms. Sasahara. We are working with the Panel of Experts at 
the U.N. to monitor who is doing the sanctions busting, what is 
it that they're bringing in, and how we can stop that. It's 
hard. It's hard with all of--we have so many different forces 
that are on the ground there and it's difficult to monitor all 
of that.
    So we do work with the United Nations and the partner 
nations to implement asset freezes, for example, travel ban 
measures on violators of the arms embargo.
    In July 2020, the United States imposed sanctions on three 
individuals and five entities that are linked to the Wagner 
Group after the group placed land mines in civilian areas in 
Tripoli.
    So we do have a number of concrete instruments and steps 
that we can take and that we have taken them.
    Ms. Manning. So, again, are those steps having any impact 
that you can see so far?
    Ms. Sasahara. They are not spreading their activities 
further throughout the country unimpeded and at free will.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you.
    Ms. Doherty, I want to ask you about the status of women's 
rights and women's political involvement in Libya. The 
provisional government includes women but it still falls short 
of a minimum of 30 percent women in leadership roles that's 
called for in the Libyan Political Dialogue Forum Roadmap.
    Of the 98 registered Presidential candidates in the 
upcoming election, just two brave women have stood for 
election. What sort of threats do they face and how do we plan 
to monitor and prioritize the greater inclusion of women in 
Libya's political and civic life, going forward?
    Ms. Doherty. Thank you for that question. Empowering Libyan 
women is a major priority for USAID and you've noted well the 
challenges that they face. We have seen brave Libyan women 
stand up to run as candidates and community leaders, and we 
have seen them be met with harassment.
    We have seen them face actual in-person bullying. We have 
seen horrific online attacks. We have seen falsehoods spread 
about women candidates. We have seen their integrity 
challenged. We have seen violence and we have also seen 
abductions of women candidates.
    So our goal in all of this is to make sure that women in 
Libya have the support and the protection that they need to 
stand up and to run for office and to be empowered civil 
society activists.
    So right now through our programs we are supporting women 
as advocates, as candidates, and as election observers. We're 
partnering with the European Union and with U.N. Women on a 
number of training programs for candidates and campaign 
managers.
    We have trained many women to safeguard the polls as 
domestic election observers and we have supported a 30 percent 
quota campaign, which is a women-led advocacy initiative 
pushing for a 30 percent quota in parliamentary elections.
    And, in addition, we're also working beyond the elections 
themselves with the education ministry on a ``Not Before 18 
"campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of child marriage 
and, more broadly, supporting elected women leaders.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you. Thank you both. My time has 
expired. I yield back.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Ms. Manning.
    Mr. Vargas, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and, again, 
I want to thank the ranking member, Tim, as well as the 
witnesses today.
    I do have some questions about the elections themselves 
now. Listening today, I understand that you have great sympathy 
and encouragement that the elections will be held, that the 
elections will work, and the Libyans want to vote, and I'm with 
you on that.
    However, we do see from the congressional Research Service 
that they may not be aligned with that. They may think that, in 
fact, there will be delays and that there will be problems with 
the vote.
    Could you explain here the difference? There seems to be a 
little bit of a different take on this issue of the elections.
    Ms. Sasahara. Yes. I think in terms of a delay, I mean, the 
target is still December 24th, as I mentioned just a little bit 
earlier, that election preparations--the technical, logistical 
and administrative tasks--are still being carried out.
    But it's--there has been kind of a compressed time in which 
for that to happen, and I think people want to make sure that 
the elections are carried out well. There is an expectation, a 
public expectation, that they are going to happen.
    If there is any kind of a delay in the elections, it's 
going to be because of technical issues. People want to make 
sure that everything is in place, that people have their voter 
registration cards, that they know where they're supposed to 
show up and that there is real security and integrity in terms 
of securing the ballot boxes and the counting.
    So there are still a lot of technical steps that need to be 
carried out. But the intention is to hold it on the 24th.
    Mr. Vargas. OK. Let me read what they have written here 
because I think it's interesting. ``These challenges may be 
compounded by the absence of an agreed constitutional framework 
proscribing the relative powers of newly elected entities.''
    I mean, it sounds like they're saying when I was reading 
this and looking at it, that, OK, we may have the elections but 
once we do all of a sudden we're going to have all these other 
problems because we really do not have a framework set up for 
these entities.
    What can you tell me about that?
    Ms. Sasahara. Well, in early October, the House of 
Representatives actually did come up with a legal framework in 
which to hold the elections. I know that that had been 
something that had been dragging on for months and months and 
months.
    But the speaker did announce and present a framework in 
which the elections could be held and that there was--there 
were a couple of rival power personalities, frankly, that did 
voice their opposition and I know that there was concern about 
whether this was good enough, whether this was legit, so that 
you could go ahead and go forward.
    But it's December. Preparations are still going forward. 
The candidacy registration opened up in early November. The 
candidates registered. It's been closed. So all of the steps 
are moving forward.
    Mr. Vargas. OK. I hope you're right. It seems to me, too, 
that there's so many other groups that are trying to frustrate 
these elections that the elections may not work.
    The reason I bring all this up is, of course, there's no 
history of elections there, really, that work, in my opinion. 
As you have noted yourself, you've had a strong man there, 
Gaddafi, for so long, and all of a sudden, we want these 
elections to work. I mean, we're democrats in the larger sense 
of the word.
    But there's really no good history of this and it does seem 
to be that there's a lot of issues we may be pushing that may 
not work, at the end of the day, and we have a cease-fire right 
now that could fall apart because of these elections.
    Ms. Sasahara. No, that's a good point. Actually, I want to 
make the point. Congressman Malinowski corrected me when he 
pointed out that there were elections in 2014. So there 
actually--there is--there is a history there.
    So I stand corrected. You're right, it is fraught with 
peril. It's a--there's a lot of firepower there. But there is a 
strong desire to do this, and I think the political elites are 
finally realizing that the Libyan people are going to hold them 
to an account.
    Even through all of the doubt, all of the debate, all of 
the shenanigans, Libyans, millions of them, continued to 
register, continued to say, you know, I want to vote. I want 
this vote to happen.
    So I think there is a realization there. But it is correct 
to say that there are still some technical aspects about the 
actual voting that still need to be worked out. But----
    Mr. Vargas. I just have 10 seconds left. I want to thank 
you. But I do want to just thank USAID. I appreciate the work 
that you do everywhere around the world, especially in these 
difficult locations, and thank you for what you're doing there. 
I wish you the best. I do. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Mr. Vargas. I echo your sentiments 
about USAID.
    And I yield to Mr. Schneider for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Schneider. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I'll echo the 
same sentiments about USAID and I thank the witnesses for 
joining us today.
    I'm going to build on some of the things said by my 
colleagues, Mr. Connolly, Mr. Vargas.
    You know, Ms. Doherty, you said in your opening statement 
the United States has a strategic interest in a stable and 
prosperous Libya, which is certainly true.
    You later went on to say that while elections alone are 
insufficient, they are a crucial step forward for Libya. And, 
Ms. Sasahara, you just said a moment ago elections are fraught 
with peril.
    So I have three kind of related questions. First is what do 
you see as the necessary steps besides elections for a stable 
and prosperous Libya? What is the sequence of those steps?
    Specifically, what has to happen before we can have success 
or expect successful elections, and how should we measure 
progress and readiness to increase the likelihood that the 
elections will be successful and the outcome after the 
elections will lead us to that stable and prosperous Libya that 
we're all hoping for?
    Ms. Doherty. Thank you for that question.
    DAS Sasahara, do you want to go and then I'll weigh in?
    Ms. Sasahara. Oh, sorry. No, I didn't mean to take your 
time, Megan. My apologies.
    I think that the elections are a huge sign--signal of 
success that we were able to do this. We are truly making the 
transition from the strong----
    Mr. Schneider. I agree, but what steps have to happen? And 
we're on a short timeframe, but what do we need to see in place 
to have the confidence or to help ensure that these elections 
and the post-period after the elections will put us on that 
path toward a stable and prosperous Libya?
    Ms. Sasahara. OK. I think what we're seeing--what we need 
is what we're seeing now is that the cease-fire that was broken 
October 23d, 2020, is still in place.
    Yes, there are militias. Yes, there are other armed 
factions. But the cease-fire is holding. It is in place and 
that's very, very important. You know, people are allowed to--
you know, they're making their statements. They're campaigning. 
They're traveling around.
    As I said, the registration is going on. There has not been 
harassment, anything of that matter. People continue to 
register. They're able to pick up their voting cards. That's a 
very, very strong signal and I think that bodes very, very 
well, despite a lot of the things that are in the background 
there.
    When you're talking about after the elections, and that is 
going to take a little bit--as I said, you have sequenced 
elections. You've got the Presidential one. The first round is 
going to be on the 24th. The second one is going to be 
simultaneously with the parliamentary elections.
    So that's when you're really going to see what is this 
government going to look like. It's, obviously, going to take a 
couple few days for the final results to be announced.
    And so I think getting back to your question, the next 
thing has to be that those results are respected, that a 
credible election has occurred. There is a winner. Those 
results have to be respected, and then a government needs to be 
formed.
    There needs to--it needs to be the government not just of 
the west, not just of the east or the south, but it has to be a 
unified government in which they believe that they are better 
united than they are divided into these two factions. Foreign 
forces----
    Mr. Schneider. And I'm sorry to interrupt but just to----
    Ms. Sasahara. Yes.
    Mr. Schneider. Are there are things that we, our allies, 
the international community can do to increase the opportunity 
and the likelihood of a government forming? There will be 
winners and losers in election, by definition. But at the end 
of the day, the Nation has to be the beneficiary of the outcome 
of that election.
    Ms. Sasahara. Right. So we have already seen what that 
looks like. When the Libyan Political Dialogue Forum selected 
the interim government--February 25th or 26th it was--the 
government was then sworn in in Tobruk in Libya on March 15th 
and they immediately went to work.
    So there is proof of concept that's already happened, and 
they continue to do their work to carry out their tasks based 
on their ministries. So it's already happened. What we're 
looking at now is a permanent government.
    What we're looking at is then good budget execution, 
services to people, and a more long-term vision, focus on the 
economic track. The security track is going well and we have to 
give a lot of credit to the military leaders of the east and 
the west that have actually come together in a group called the 
5+5, kind of like, in my mind, sort of the unlikely heroes that 
realize that they are better united together. They themselves 
came up with a foreign forces withdrawal plan on October 8th.
    Mr. Schneider. OK. And----
    Ms. Sasahara. Yes, please.
    Mr. Schneider. And I'm sorry to interrupt you. I only have 
a few seconds left. I want to make sure Ms. Doherty has a 
chance to talk about what she envisions as the other steps as 
well.
    Ms. Doherty. Thanks so much. I appreciate that.
    In addition to what Karen mentioned, the key point here is 
that elections need to lead to something. They need to lead to 
governance and they need to lead to change.
    So your question of what are we doing to make sure to set 
this up for success, the answer is that we are working to plan 
robust governance support to make sure that any future 
government can deliver services and improvements for the Libyan 
people. We're working on conflict resolution in many 
communities throughout the country to make sure that Libyans 
who lose at the ballot box know that the government that is 
elected will respond to their needs and address their concerns.
    Mr. Schneider. Great. Thank you both. I wish we had not 5 
minutes but hours to talk about this. There's so much here. You 
guys are dealing with this day in and day out, and I appreciate 
your commitment to it. As you said, we're all hopeful for a 
stable and prosperous Libya. We look forward to having further 
conversations.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you. Thanks, Mr. Schneider. Thanks once 
again to all of the members for outstanding questions.
    I will yield myself the time that I need. I would like to 
followup on something that Ms. Manning asked about earlier.
    Ms. Sasahara, the March 2021 Panel of Experts report says 
that the arms embargo remains totally ineffective. It said 
violations are extensive and blatant with complete disregard 
for the sanctions measures.
    Do you agree with that? And clearly, whether it's a total 
failure or not, the massive flow of arms is a huge problem. 
What do we do to strengthen the enforcement?
    I think you're muted.
    Ms. Sasahara. Sorry. Thank you for that. I do not think 
it's a total failure. I think if it were, we would see an 
incredible amount of weapons and we would see, I think, a lot 
of really dangerous behavior.
    We do not see that now. It is difficult policing up all the 
borders. But we try to partner with the Libyans as well as with 
others to make sure that we keep as much out of Libya, off the 
battlefield. Again, I go back to the fact that the cease-fire 
continues to hold.
    That took some doing, but it has been respected by all 
sides, which I think is the real success, that they realize 
that they're better off in a peaceful place than trying to win 
on the battlefield.
    Mr. Deutch. Thanks.
    Ms. Doherty, let me ask a question about politics as we 
approach the elections. There still seems to be this disunity 
at the national level and having municipal governments cope 
with the instability. What does USAID programming do? How do 
you work to strengthen and build capacity at the local level?
    Ms. Doherty. Thank you, Chairman. The local governments in 
Libya have been bright spots over the past decade. We have 
worked with them for years. They have been great partners. And 
our goal in supporting the local councils has been to improve 
their service delivery and also help them build trust and 
credibility with their citizens.
    So to give you a few examples of our work, we have helped 
18 municipalities across Libya become financially self-reliant, 
helping them with financial planning and things like revenue 
collection.
    We helped 24 local councils improve their budgeting and 
promote transparency, which is sometimes a radical concept, 
through things like town halls and publishing, sending 
information.
    And, more broadly, we have supported 22 peaceful successful 
local elections for municipal councils, and we have been 
providing training and support to local elected officials 
including targeted support to elected women councilors.
    And through all of this work across the country and with 
these local councils and in the communities, we have actually 
seen perceptions of local governance improve.
    Mr. Deutch. I appreciate that.
    I see Mr. Sherman has joined. So let me--let me just move 
on and go back to Ms. Sasahara. The House, as I mentioned 
earlier, passed the Libya Stabilization Act, which, among other 
things, seeks to impose targeted sanctions on individuals who 
commit human rights abuses in Libya, violate the arms embargo, 
and support foreign military intervention that threaten peace, 
security, and stability of Libya.
    We want this to be a helpful tool. I'd like your thoughts 
on that and what else Congress can do to bolster the 
Administration's work on this issue.
    Ms. Sasahara. Thank you for that, sir. I think we agree. We 
want to have the right tools in order to make some concrete 
progress on that.
    Now, I understand that the Administration hasn't yet taken 
a position on that legislation. But we welcome any legislative 
initiatives that contribute to further stabilizing Libya.
    We believe that we do need those types of tools that have 
the broad range from, you know, pressure all the way up to 
something that has some teeth in it, as we have used before 
with that--the director of that migration center, Mr. Al Kuni 
Ibrahim.
    Those are helpful tools and it does help to put those 
actors on notice that they have been used and they will be used 
and can be used.
    Mr. Deutch. I appreciate that. In addition to the tools 
that we're trying to give you, if you could, finally, just 
speak to additional measures you may be considering to compel 
foreign forces to leave and tell us about any conversations--
ongoing conversations, pressure, on--there's been a lot of talk 
about the Russians and Emiratis, but the Turks as well.
    Ms. Sasahara. Yes. I think we--I think particularly 
following the elections. There's no pretext there. You're going 
to have a permanent government, a government that is going to 
want to decide what are the most appropriate military 
relationships that it is going to have with other countries, 
large and small, ourselves included, any of them.
    So I think that that is going to be a very key point. We 
all know that every embassy has an attache and security 
assistance and these types of things. But we're looking at 
something that is very, very different. It is not even under a 
flag. There's a pretext that it's not linked to a government.
    So I think that continuing to support and work with the 
Libyan people and the Libyan leadership in their often-stated, 
publicly stated, desire we want all foreign forces out. I think 
it would be very difficult for any country to try to defend its 
extensive military physical presence there.
    Mr. Deutch. It would indeed. Thank you very much. Thanks to 
both of you. And Mr. Sherman has joined. Mr. Sherman, I'm happy 
to yield 5 minutes to you.
    Mr. Sherman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
holding these hearings. I want to focus on the involvement of 
Turkey and Russia and focus on what each country would hope to 
gain.
    Turkey, obviously, ruled the area for hundreds of years--
hundreds of years ago, or a hundred years ago, although the 
level of Turkish control was never all that great.
    Does Turkey aspire to have military and naval bases in 
Libya? Does it see itself as a regional power and does Turkey 
imagine that it will somehow get a big chunk of the oil 
revenues from Libya 1 day?
    Ms. Sasahara. I think that--I think there's always an 
element of looking at what how one can strengthen or, you know, 
project political influence and form new commercial 
partnerships, and Libya is an oil-rich country.
    Libya is part of the Southern Med. So I think that there 
are a couple of different reasons why you would have a country 
like Turkey that's interested in Libya.
    Like any other country, they have the right----
    Mr. Sherman. But we haven't seen Turkey try to establish 
naval bases outside of its own region. It's not like they're 
talking to Algeria about putting naval bases there. Do they--
are we aware of any plans that would provide tens of billions 
of dollars of profit to either Russia or Turkey as a result of 
their involvement?
    Ms. Sasahara. No.
    Mr. Sherman. And now, Russia, the strategic--you know, 
their desire for warm-water ports and a revision--a return to 
great power status would, obviously, be helped if they could 
have a naval base in Libya.
    How much effort is Russia and Turkey putting in in terms of 
their own money? Or is this being funded by Libyan oil? Is 
Libyan oil paying for the 20,000 mercenaries, et cetera, or are 
Turkey and Russia dipping into their own revenues to pay for 
this involvement?
    Ms. Sasahara. No. Libyan oil isn't used to fund that 
activity. I think that, alluding back to what I--in my spoken 
remarks the Russians are definitely looking to get a foothold 
into the continent and Libya is an extremely attractive 
launching pad for them. And so it is in their interest to have 
a physical presence there.
    That is not compatible with what the Libyan people have 
stated that they want. That is not----
    Mr. Sherman. I'm just trying to see this from Moscow's 
perspective how expensive is this for them and are they dipping 
into their own pockets.
    Let me ask another question about the Libyan people, and 
that is at various times in history this has been two 
countries, an east and a west. How much patriotism is there in 
the east and the west that this be one country, particularly 
when the oil is only--is predominantly in one section?
    How strongly does--along the entire east-west coast is 
there a belief in Libyan unity? Or is there a separatist or, 
what I'd say, a de facto separatist support--there is support 
for de facto separatism?
    Ms. Sasahara. Yes. I think--like a lot of people, I think 
they recognize themselves as Libyans whether that's outside the 
country or whether it's inside the country, and it is true--you 
have touched on something--that it's, you know, where the oil 
is.
    But I think that there has been equitable distribution. I 
think that, getting back to remarks about the occasional, you 
know, winner take all aspects of Libyan policy, this is where 
that can come into play. Oh, he's a westerner or, you know, 
he's an easterner.
    Mr. Sherman. OK. I do want to squeeze in one question and 
that is are the various forces in Libya willing to accept 
international observation of elections from credible observers?
    Ms. Doherty. Thank you. Yes. The Election Commission has 
invited international groups to observe and, in fact, we are 
currently exploring what we can do to support.
    Already the African Union and the EU are preparing small 
missions as is the Arab Organization for Human Rights and also, 
I believe, the Arab Organization for Electoral Management 
Bodies.
    Mr. Sherman. It is so important that the Libyan people 
accept the outcome of this election, and I could say that for 
another country that's important to me as well.
    And I'll yield back.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Mr. Sherman, and I thank all--I 
thank the witnesses, first of all, and all the members for 
being here today for participating.
    Ms. Doherty, Ms. Sasahara, your insight is much 
appreciated. Your efforts are really significantly impacting 
Libya, and, as you can tell, the subcommittee has a keen 
interest in what happens in Libya, particularly at this 
critical juncture and we intend to continue to maintain our 
focus to ensure that post-election, we move toward a unified 
Libya with a government that functions well without the outside 
intervention of military groups.
    And we acknowledge that this is going to require a 
concerted effort and ongoing focus from this committee, from 
Congress, and from the Administration. We look forward to 
working with both of you, going forward, on these important 
issues.
    And I would remind the members of the subcommittee that to 
the extent they have additional questions for our witnesses we 
ask them to submit those and that the witnesses will have the 
opportunity to respond in writing, and any witness questions 
for the hearing record should be submitted to the subcommittee 
clerk within five business days.
    And, again, I thank you both so much.
    And without objection, the hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:19 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]

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