[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



 
RENEWING THE UNITED STATES' COMMITMENT TO ADDRESSING THE ROOT CAUSES OF
                     MIGRATION FROM CENTRAL AMERICA

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                 WESTERN HEMISPHERE, CIVILIAN SECURITY,
              MIGRATION AND INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC POLICY

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             APRIL 14, 2021

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-25

                               __________

        Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
        
        
        
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               U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 44-120 PDF              WASHINGTON : 2022                      
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                  GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York, Chairman

BRAD SHERMAN, California             MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking 
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey                  Member
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia         CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida          STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
KAREN BASS, California               SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts       DARRELL ISSA, California
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island        ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California                 LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas                ANN WAGNER, Missouri
DINA TITUS, Nevada                   BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California                 BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania             KEN BUCK, Colorado
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota             TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota                MARK GREEN, Tennessee
COLIN ALLRED, Texas                  ANDY BARR, Kentucky
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan                 GREG STEUBE, Florida
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia         DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania       AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey           PETER MEIJER, Michigan
ANDY KIM, New Jersey                 NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
SARA JACOBS, California              RONNY JACKSON, Texas
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina        YOUNG KIM, California
JIM COSTA, California                MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida
JUAN VARGAS, California              JOE WILSON, South Carolina
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas              RON WRIGHT, Texas
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois

    

                    Sophia Lafargue, Staff Director

               Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
                                 ------                                

 Subcommittee on Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, Migration and 
                     International Economic Policy

                   ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey, Chairman

JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas                MARK GREEN, Tennessee, Ranking 
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan                     Member
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
JUAN VARGAS, California

                                     AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
                                     MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida

                  Alexander Brockwehl, Staff Director
                  
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               WITNESSES

Zuniga, Ricardo, Special Envoy for the Northern Triangle, U.S. 
  Department of State............................................     9
Natiello, The Honorable Peter, Acting Assistant Administrator, 
  Bureau for Latin America and the Caribbean, U.S. Agency for 
  International Development......................................    16

                                APPENDIX

Hearing Notice...................................................    45
Hearing Minutes..................................................    46
Hearing Attendance...............................................    47

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN SIRES

Opening statement of Chairman Sires..............................    48

                       INFORMATION FOR THE RECORD

Chart submitted for the record from Ranking Member Green.........    52

            RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Responses to questions submitted for the record..................    53


RENEWING THE UNITED STATES' COMMITMENT TO ADDRESSING THE ROOT CAUSES OF 
                     MIGRATION FROM CENTRAL AMERICA

                       Wednesday, April 14, 2021

                          House of Representatives,
                Subcommittee on Western Hemisphere,
                   Civilian Security, Migration and
                      International Economic Policy
                      Committee on Foreign Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:04 a.m., in 
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Albio Sires 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Mr. Sires. Good morning, everyone. Thank you to our 
witnesses for being here today.
    This hearing, entitled ``Renewing the United States' 
Commitment to Addressing the Root Causes of Migration from 
Central America'' will come to order.
    Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the committee at any point, and all members will have 
5 days to submit statements, extraneous material, and questions 
for the record, subject to the length limitation in the rules. 
To insert something into the record, email the document to the 
previously mentioned address and contact subcommittee staff.
    As a reminder to members, staff and all other physically 
present in this room, per recent guidance from the Office of 
the Attending Physician, masks must be worn at all times during 
today's hearing. Please sanitize your seating area. The chair 
views these measures as a safety issue, and, therefore, an 
important matter of order and decorum for this proceeding.
    As a reminder to members joining remotely, please keep your 
video function on at all times, even when you are not 
recognized by the chair. Members are responsible for muting and 
unmuting themselves, and please remember to mute yourself after 
you finish speaking.
    Consistent with House Res. 8 and the accompanying 
regulations, staff will only mute members and witnesses as 
appropriate when they are not under recognition to eliminate 
background noise.
    I see that we have a quorum, and we will now recognize--I 
will now recognize myself for opening remarks.
    While I am thrilled that we have two experienced witnesses 
with us to discuss how to strengthen U.S. policy and foreign 
assistance toward Central America, I believe our goal should be 
to ensure that every individual throughout Central America has 
the chance to achieve a life of dignity and opportunity in 
their home country. Only--only then will we be able to solve 
the challenge of irregular migration.
    I know from speaking with both of our witnesses that they 
come to this hearing with proposals for how to do this, but I 
am also eager to hear ideas from our members on what we can do 
better. To me, this is what the relationship between Congress 
and the executive branch should look like. We are here to work 
together on a bipartisan basis to achieve the best policy 
outcomes for the American people.
    I have been working on this issue long enough to know that 
success in this effort will not be achieved overnight. It will 
take many years of sustained effort, and I applaud President 
Biden for sending a clear message at the start of this 
Administration that this issue is a priority and that he and 
Vice President Harris are ready to invest necessary time and 
resources to achieve real progress.
    As we all know, this hearing comes at a moment when the 
border arrivals are once again on the rise. Our immigration 
system is in dire need of reform, but the purpose of today's 
hearing is to look south of the border at the issues that are 
forcing people to flee their homes.
    My experience from traveling many times to the region is 
that most individuals who make the journey know that it is 
dangerous. They also know that it is unlikely that they will be 
granted entry into the United States, but they are so desperate 
to escape that they take the costly and dangerous trip anyway. 
Violence, impunity, inequality, and the impact of climate 
change are among the many push factors driving this trend.
    Hurricane Eta and Iota hit Honduras, Guatemala, and 
Nicaragua extremely hard at the end of last year, impacting as 
many as 9 million people in Central America. In San Pedro Sula 
alone, hundreds of thousands of people were forced into 
temporary shelters after their homes were flooded.
    This devastation is closely--is clearly contributing to the 
current wave of migration, and I welcomed the USAID 
announcement last week that it has deployed a disaster response 
team to address food insecurity and other humanitarian needs in 
the region.
    I also urge the U.S. Government to prioritize Central 
America in future efforts to distribute excess vaccines and 
provide resources to help countries buy COVID-19 vaccine 
directly.
    As the U.S. Government takes a longer term and more 
holistic approach to addressing migration, I believe that 
promoting democratic governance and human rights must be 
central. We need to tackle corruption. We saw progress in 
Guatemala and Honduras when the international community 
provided backing and protection to courageous domestic 
prosecutors.
    The anti-corruption mission in Guatemala helped reduce 
homicides by 5 percent annually during the 10-year period in 
which it operated. It showed that reducing corruption directly 
advances all our other policy goals. Unfortunately, there are 
economic and political elites in these countries who will fight 
tooth and nail to protect the status quo.
    In Honduras, after the international mission helped convict 
prominent officials like the former first lady, President 
Hernandez and the Honduras Congress fought back by ending its 
mandate and pushing through a new criminal code to reduce 
corruption sentences. In Guatemala, corrupt officials were 
emboldened after they ended the mandate of CICIG.
    Now they are trying to hijack back the judicial selection 
process and capture the Constitutional Court. We cannot respond 
to these setbacks by throwing our arms in the air. We should 
redouble our support for those investigating and prosecuting 
high level corruption. That is why I included language in the 
Northern Triangle Enhanced Engagement Act, which was led by 
former Chairman Engel and Ranking Member McCaul--and it was 
passed into law last year--to sanction officials who obstruct 
corruption investigations or seek to harass or intimidate anti-
corruption investigations.
    We also need to support local civil society organizations; 
in general, the U.S. assistance to support bottom-up solutions 
that are driven by local leaders. The Inter-American Foundation 
provides one excellent model of this kind of work.
    We must also reinforce our foreign assistance with 
strategic diplomacy. Ambassador Popp is doing a great job in 
Guatemala. We urgently need Senate-confirmed Ambassadors like 
him in El Salvador and Honduras, who are deeply committed to 
combating corruption and protecting human rights.
    Expanding a lawful pathway for Central Americans to work in 
the United States, particularly through the H-2 visa program, 
should also be part of our regional strategy.
    I will close my remarks by addressing an issue that 
threatens to undermine our efforts to engage constructively 
with countries in Central America. In recent weeks, Salvadorian 
government officials have attempted to discredit individual 
members of the U.S. Congress or to use disinformation to 
misrepresent individual members' views.
    Unfortunately, this campaign to manipulate public 
perception has been supported by millions of dollars in payment 
to U.S. lobbyists. Members of Congress are receiving death 
threats and harassment as a result, including this chairman 
here. Members of Congress are receiving death threats and 
harassment.
    Recently, it escalated to the point where El Salvador head 
of State urged a Member of Congress' constituents to vote her 
out of office and designated conspiracy theories supported by 
her political opponents. This is foreign election interference. 
If it continues, we will confront it as a national security 
threat to the United States.
    During his short term in office, President Bukele has 
achieved a historic reduction in violent crimes. Maybe more 
important, he has given Salvadorans hope, and he deserves 
credit for that. But diplomacy is not a one-way street. 
Exposure to criticism is one of the burdens of leadership. 
Trust me, I have gotten plenty of it in my 15 years in 
Congress.
    I have spent my time in Congress advocating for closer U.S. 
engagement with countries throughout Latin America and in the 
Caribbean because I care deeply about the people in this 
region, and I believe wholeheartedly in the capacity and the 
autonomy of the people in this region. I want to promote U.S. 
interests while lifting up our neighbors throughout the Western 
Hemisphere. This can only be done if we engage with one another 
in good faith about the issues where we agree and those where 
we see things differently.
    Let's commit to fostering a culture of integrity, decency, 
and mutual respect. That is what all our constituents deserve.
    Thank you, and I will now turn to Ranking Member Green for 
his opening statement.
    Mr. Green. Thank you, Chairman Sires. And thank you to our 
witnesses. We are here to discuss the crisis of illegal 
migration from Central America and address its root causes. It 
is a timely topic, as President Biden caused the massive surge 
at the border, failed to understand how it happened, named the 
Vice President in charge, who has yet to visit the border, and 
failed to listen to members of his own Administration and party 
who actually seem to get it.
    Unfortunately, there is no action other than a highly 
suspicious $87 million hotel bill, $350 a night per room, and 
as we saw yesterday, a 530 million no-bid contract, and I 
quote, ``potentially worth more than 12 times the group's most 
recently reported annual budget, according to Axios.''
    But I would also like to report that there are members at 
the State Department with whom I have had conversations who do 
get it. You cannot just announce a 4 billion in cash payment, 
pass amnesty in the House, strike down all barriers, and when 
the rush to the border happens, expect people to believe it is 
Trump's fault. The Administration is literally hanging a 
welcome sign at our border, but many Democrats are actually 
acknowledging quietly to us that that is stupid, and that gives 
me hope.
    You see, some of them recognize, like many of us, that 
there are three stages to migration. And if you would, consult 
the handout that I have provided at each of your seats.
    First, this committee meeting is being held to mainly 
address those push factors that you see on the handout that I 
have shared, like improving the safety of people in their home 
countries and developing prosperity opportunities that make 
staying in their home country attractive. However, we should 
also reinstate path migration factors like recruiting the 
Mexican government to block its southern border, something the 
previous Administration did, as well as reinstating barriers to 
entry and asylum agreements which disincentivize illegal 
migration.
    Since this hearing is primarily focused on push factors, I 
would like to share my vision to solve those issues. We have an 
opportunity to address them as well as other foreign policy 
crises in one fell swoop. Let me first summarize the problems. 
Economic opportunity in Latin America was severely 
disadvantaged by the commodity boom and corresponding rise in 
currency values caused by China's growth. It became cheaper for 
Latin Americans to buy Chinese goods. And as they did, they 
lost their own manufacturing base and the corresponding jobs. 
That is problem one.
    China, on the other hand, gained those manufacturing jobs, 
creating a global dependency on that country that was on full 
display during the COVID crisis. That dependency is an issue 
for the United States, PPE, medications. Problem two.
    The loss of opportunity in Latin America, as my handout 
displays, has created a substantial push for migration out of 
Latin America into our southern border. Problem three.
    However, instead of just throwing more cash at the problem 
with no accountability, we should redirect existing dollars 
already appropriated for Latin America to incentivize companies 
to move manufacturing from China to Latin America, decrease our 
dependency on China, increase manufacturing and job 
opportunities for our brothers and sisters to the south, and 
decrease the push factors and pressure on our southern border.
    This is a win-win-win. And I am working on legislation to 
this effect and hope to collaborate across the aisle with you, 
Mr. Chairman, on this.
    In addition, I urge the Biden Administration to fully 
implement the bipartisan United States Northern Triangle 
Enhanced Engagement Act enacted in the last Congress. This 
legislation, as Chairman Sires said, sponsored by former 
Foreign Affairs Chairman Eliot Engel, addresses significant 
issues in Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador. Among other 
things, it requires the Secretary of State, heads of relevant 
agencies, to implement a 5-year strategy.
    While there have been some improvements, there is still a 
lot of work to be done. And I urge the Biden Administration to 
stop rescinding asylum cooperative agreements that were enacted 
by the last Administration. The results of these policy 
reversals have been predictable.
    Rather than requiring migrants to remain in Mexico and 
their home countries for their claims to be processed, we have 
created a refugee crisis in American facilities. The Biden 
Administration has gone so far as to offer Federal employees 4 
months of paid leave to care for migrant children. This is 
unsustainable.
    It is a public health emergency and humanitarian crisis. 
Migrants are risking their lives on the dangerous trek to the 
United States, and many are being violently and sexually 
exploited by human traffickers. Mind you, all of this during a 
global pandemic.
    We do not have the strategy or the resources to deal with 
this. President Biden must show he is serious about ending this 
crisis. Open borders lead to disaster, but it isn't too late to 
reverse course. The Administration must do so immediately if we 
are to have any hope of stemming the flow of illegal 
immigration and the danger refugees face due to our open border 
process.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    I now turn to the full chairman--the chairman of the full 
committee, Congressman Meeks, for opening statements.
    Mr. Meeks. Let me start by thanking my good friend and 
Chairman Albio Sires for inviting me to join you all here 
today. And I am thrilled to participate in such an important 
hearing held by this subcommittee.
    As we look at the ongoing challenges both in Central 
America and at our own southern border, I believe that now is 
the time for an honest and frank conversation about our 
commitment and approach to addressing the root causes of 
migration. And while I am encouraged by some of the initial 
approaches taken by the Biden Administration, it may take years 
to recover from the damage done in Central America by the 
previous Administration.
    The Trump Administration's reckless policies over 
suspending assistance and forcing Guatemala, El Salvador, and 
Honduras into joining bilateral asylum cooperative agreements 
has been a major setback for the United States' credibility in 
the region. Now the heavy task of recuperating some of that 
goodwill falls on the Biden Administration, and it is up to 
us--it is up to us in Congress to play a proactive and 
supportive role.
    The countries of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras have 
long suffered from violence, corruption, and fractured economic 
growth. Severe drought experienced in what is known as the Dry 
Corridor has devastated communities, taken away jobs, and left 
people without food. The very real and present danger of 
climate change has brought on devastating hurricanes and 
natural disasters that are increasing in frequency and 
intensity.
    For years, illegally armed gangs and drug traffickers have 
had a vice grip on the region, terrorizing women and children 
as well as extorting countless families and businesses.
    And, finally, we know that these three countries are facing 
one of the highest levels of corruption in our region.
    Given these underlying problems, it should be no surprise 
that so many Central Americans decide to take the incredibly 
dangerous journey in the hopes of a better life. The key 
challenges and drivers of migration in Central America cannot 
be addressed without serious and constant dialog between the 
United States and the governments of Guatemala, El Salvador, 
and Honduras.
    And while we are--and we will continue to be--critical of 
some of those governments, we must try and find areas of common 
ground that we can work as partners together and explore our 
pathways for action. Rather than cutting assistance, we must 
explore ways to work around obstructive government and 
prioritize funding civil society partners, doing crucial work 
on the ground.
    Now, more than ever, strong implementing partners are 
needed to help push the region to address countless crucial 
issues, like the debilitating impacts of COVID-19 pandemic, 
skyrocketing femicide rates, and to reignite anti-corruption 
and transparency initiatives.
    At the same time, we also need to provide a space to listen 
to the most vulnerable in the region and help empower the 
voiceless. As Members of Congress, we must not be afraid to 
speak out against the numerous injustices that have taken 
place.
    In Honduras, we must continue to call for justice for the 
Berta Caceras and Keyla Martinez and the Garifuna leaders who 
are missing in--who are still missing.
    In Guatemala, we must support indigenous leaders defending 
their land and ensure that country has a transparent judicial 
system.
    In El Salvador, we cannot stay quiet as women who seek 
abortion remain criminalized, and basic press freedoms are 
under attack.
    So, in closing, again I would like to thank you, Chairman 
Sires and Ranking Member Green, for letting me participate and 
join you today. And I look forward to hearing the testimoneys 
from Special Envoy Zuniga and Deputy Assistant Administrator 
Natiello.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    Mr. Sires. I now turn to Ranking Member McCaul for his 
opening statement. Is he on?
    [Off microphone comment]
    Mr. Sires. Okay. We will now--before we go to witnesses, I 
would like to take this opportunity to ask unanimous consent 
that Representatives Abigail Spanberger, Scott Perry, Sara 
Jacobs, and Ronny Jackson participate at today's hearing after 
all subcommittee members have had their opportunity to 
participate and question any witnesses.
    No objection? Thank you.
    We will now go to our witnesses. First, thank you very much 
for being here today. I will now introduce Mr. Ricardo Zuniga. 
He is President Biden's Special Envoy for the Northern Triangle 
at the U.S. Department of State, and a career member of the 
Senior Foreign Service.
    Mr. Zuniga was previously the Interim Director of the 
Brazil Institute and a Senior Diplomatic Fellow at the Woodrow 
Wilson Center. His government assignments have included serving 
as U.S. Consul General in Brazil, Special Assistant to the 
President and Senior Director for Western Hemisphere Affairs at 
the National Security Council, and Political Counsel at the 
U.S. Embassy in Brazil.
    Mr. Zuniga, thank you for being with us today, and we 
welcome you to our hearing.
    We will then hear from Peter Natiello. He is the Deputy 
Assistant Administrator in the U.S. Agency for International 
Development's Latin America and Caribbean Bureau. Mr. Natiello 
has served as a USAID Mission Director in Afghanistan, El 
Salvador, Colombia, and Bolivia. He began his career with USAID 
in Bolivia, and he has also managed USAID democracy and 
governance programs in Ecuador.
    Before joining the Foreign Service, Mr. Natiello served as 
a Peace Corps volunteer in Ecuador and as a Research Analyst 
with the Inter-American Development Bank. Mr. Natiello, thank 
you for joining us.
    I ask each witness to please limit your testimony to 5 
minutes. And without objection, your prepared statement will be 
made part of the record.
    Mr. Zuniga, you are recognized for your testimony.

  STATEMENT OF RICHARD ZUNIGA, SPECIAL ENVOY FOR THE NORTHERN 
               TRIANGLE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE

    Mr. Zuniga. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman, Ranking Member, and members of the House Foreign 
Affairs Subcommittee on the Western----
    [Audio interruption]
    Mr. Sires. All right. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Zuniga. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, 
Ranking Member, and members of the House Foreign Affairs 
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere. Thank you for inviting 
me here today. I am honored to have this opportunity to speak 
with you and honored to serve as the State Department's Special 
Envoy to the Northern Triangle.
    In my role as Special Envoy, my job is to advise the 
Secretary of State and oversee the Department's plan for a 
comprehensive approach to migration in North and Central 
America. To do that, I engage with governments in the region--
Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala, in particular--on 
a range of issues, and my work is also much broader national 
effort defined by President Biden in his February 2d Executive 
Order creating a comprehensive regional framework on migration.
    This approach includes a collaborative strategy for 
managing migration for North and Central America, for 
addressing the root causes of forced displacement and irregular 
migration over the long term. The Vice President leads this 
national effort, and the State Department supports and advances 
the objectives set by the Vice President and defined for U.S. 
agencies.
    Since assuming this role on March 16, I have traveled with 
senior State Department and National Security Council officials 
to Mexico, Guatemala, and El Salvador, where we spoke with a 
wide variety of stakeholders. And here I want to emphasize our 
intent to engage the whole of society.
    Just as all of U.S. society has a stake in the outcomes in 
Central America, so too does the whole of society in Central 
America. So on every visit, I met with members of civil 
society, the private sector, government of course, and other 
interested members, including media.
    The message I am sharing is that the United States is 
committed to working with governments and all those who are--
who share a common vision of a prosperous, secure, and 
democratic Central America. We do so while enforcing U.S. 
immigration laws, promoting safe, orderly, and humane migration 
and improving access to protection for those who need it.
    Mr. Chairman, at this point, I think it is very clear to 
the United States and to the partners of the United States that 
the current episode of migration from Central America is part 
of a recurring pattern of mass migration driven by the push 
factors that have been defined earlier here today--insecurity, 
lack of opportunity, and, most of all, despair that lives are 
going to improve in Central America.
    Our job--our very difficult job--as a government, working 
in consultation with Congress, working with the stakeholders I 
described earlier, is to find a way forward, first of all, to 
enforce our laws, enforce our borders, but also to demonstrate 
that there are other legal pathways that can be used by those 
seeking legal migration to the United States, and most of all, 
generating hope in Central America that they might have a 
better day and a reason to stay.
    Right now, the logic, as you described it, is on the side 
of the push factors, aided by coyotes who are misrepresenting 
the conditions on the U.S. border, and suggesting that it is an 
easy path to arrive in the United States.
    It is important to underscore here that people seeking 
safety, people seeking prosperity, people seeking justice, have 
a right to have all of those things in their countries. And we 
appreciate the recognition when that is provided by leaders in 
El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala about that right. Our work 
is to help generate enabling conditions that make that 
possible. That is difficult work; as you say, difficult work 
that will take many years to accomplish. But we have to begin 
somewhere, and we have to build on what has already been 
accomplished.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Zuniga follows:]
    
   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]  

       
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Mr. Natiello.

 STATEMENT OF PETER NATIELLO, ACTING ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, 
  BUREAU FOR LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN, U.S. AGENCY FOR 
                   INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT

    Mr. Natiello. Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Green, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today. Addressing the root causes of irregular 
migration from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras is a top 
priority for USAID, and we are grateful for this committee's 
ongoing bipartisan support for our work.
    At the direction of President Biden, USAID is aggressively 
ramping up programs to address the economic, security, and 
governance challenges that drive irregular migration from 
Central America.
    There is no doubt that the conditions on the ground are 
difficult. COVID-19, plus the damage wrought by Hurricanes Eta 
and Iota, have only further complicated the situation. To help 
mitigate the impact of recurrent drought, severe food 
insecurity, and COVID-19, USAID recently deployed a Disaster 
Assistance Response Team to Guatemala, Honduras, and El 
Salvador. Thank you for mentioning that, Mr. Chairman.
    Providing urgent, lifesaving humanitarian aid is a key part 
of USAID's mission, and we are also particularly focused on 
addressing the root causes of irregular migration.
    USAID uses data to identify migration hotspots, so that we 
can scale up and focus our programs on would-be migrants from 
vulnerable places and help returned migrants reintegrate into 
their communities.
    Our programming strengthens economic opportunities, 
security, and governance, and builds resilience to climate 
change in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. We know that 
opening doors to employment and education for citizens in their 
home countries would lead to safer, more prosperous societies, 
which is why USAID is broadening economic opportunities, 
especially for young people who are most at risk of migrating.
    As just one example, in Guatemala, USAID recently 
inaugurated a new agricultural center in Huehuetenango, an area 
of high out-migration. This center will help more than 20,000 
small farmers improve their productivity, connect them to 
markets, and increase their incomes. While fostering improved 
economic opportunities is key, these efforts will not be 
successful if security challenges are not addressed.
    El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, as has been noted, 
are among the most violent countries in the world, and their 
citizens are the target of crime and violence from criminal 
groups and gangs. USAID is reaching those most at risk of being 
victimized or committing crime and violence.
    Per President Biden's February 2 Executive Order, we are 
particularly focused on addressing rampant gender-based 
violence in the region. To address this in El Salvador, USAID 
provided assistance to establish 52 victims' assistance centers 
operating at justice institutions, with staff trained to 
provide legal and psychosocial services to victims, including 
victims of gender-based violence.
    USAID also supported a specialized training program for 
judges related to gender-based violence crimes.
    Transparent, accountable governance is also essential. 
Citizens of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras deserve 
nothing less. That is why USAID works with civil society 
organizations to increase transparency, build respect for human 
rights, and promote accountability.
    In Guatemala, we have recently done this through support to 
the Attorney General's Office to expand services to new 
municipalities. In fact, last week the Attorney General's 
Office, with our Ambassador, inaugurated 68 municipal 
prosecutors' offices, expanding services from 16 percent of the 
Nation to 100 percent coverage. These types of interventions 
are helping extend access to justice and to stop impunity.
    In Central America, climate change is also a serious issue, 
contributing to more severe droughts and hurricanes and reduced 
water availability. Without predictable harvests that can 
provide stable sources of income, many rural Central Americans 
are driven away from their homes so that they can feed their 
families.
    We are building resilience in Guatemala and in Honduras by 
promoting innovative practices and technologies that help 
farmers maintain and increase sustained yields throughout the 
year. For example, in Honduras in the Dry Corridor, which was 
mentioned earlier, USAID investments have provided agriculture 
and nutrition assistance to 251,000 people in recent years, and 
these beneficiaries have reported that their intention to 
migrate was 78 percent lower than the country overall.
    As the former USAID Director in El Salvador, I have seen 
firsthand the powerful human impact of our programming. At the 
same time, USAID approaches this challenge with humility. We 
know that more needs to be done to ensure people have 
opportunities to build a better future in their home countries.
    As USAID scales up efforts to address the root causes of 
migration, we also recognize that assistance alone will not be 
enough. Our success in the region depends on a long-term 
commitment by governments, the private sector, and civil 
society to combat corruption and improve governance.
    To close, we are committed to supporting countries in their 
efforts at becoming stronger, safer, and more prosperous, so 
citizens can remain at home and create a better future for 
themselves and their families.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Natiello follows:]
    
    
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    Mr. Sires. Thank you very much.
    We will now start with members' questions. I will start 
myself.
    You know, I have been on this committee now for 15 years, 
and for years I have advocated that this country should focus 
more intensely on the Western Hemisphere. Whether I have not--
you know, I have noticed that we just do not focus enough on 
this region, whether it is Republican, Democratic, and I am 
very happy to hear that President Biden now is really focusing 
in this region.
    But, you know, like anything else, it has to be sustained. 
We are not going to change the things that are wrong with these 
countries, or help change the things that are wrong in these 
countries, overnight.
    And one of the concerns that I always have is the 
corruption piece that when we are just getting ahead in some of 
these areas, you know, all of a sudden there is a change, and 
all of the good things that we did for a few years is thrown 
out.
    So I was just wondering if you can talk a little bit about 
sustaining the effort of this country in the region to make 
sure that we just do not do it when there is a crisis at the 
border, that we need to focus on fixing some of the issues 
there.
    Mr. Zuniga. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I believe 
you have identified exactly the most important issue here, 
which is sustainability. The United States has a long-term 
commitment in Central America, particularly dating from the 
1980's forward. We have assisted, through multiple initiatives, 
beginning with the Caribbean Basin Initiative, and our security 
support during the 1980's, and extended over decades various 
levels of support.
    But as you say, the conditions in Central America have 
worsened over time, and at this point the question is, how do 
we arrest that slide?
    Our cooperation in Central America is really focused on 
three areas: security cooperation to improve that very high 
level of crime that citizens experience; prosperity promotion, 
so that people can have a way of life that is dignified and 
gives them reason to remain rooted; and third, governance.
    And I would say that as President Biden approaches this 
issue, he has put governance at the very center and anti-
corruption at the center precisely because you cannot have 
those other two, prosperity or security, if you do not have a 
government in which citizens can have confidence, a government 
that delivers public good and which deals with cases of 
corruption from the inside and works to improve its 
performance.
    Our approach is really learned from the experience of CICIG 
and MACCIH--CICIG in Guatemala and MACCIH in Honduras--in a 
proven model. And that proven model is that there are people in 
Central America within the public sector and civil society, and 
in the private sector, who have the political will and who have 
the capacity to improve governance. But they face entrenched 
corruption in many cases, and systems that have worked to 
prevent government from working at the service of the people.
    Our job is--as an outside actor is to recognize that change 
has to come from Central America. In order to be sustained, it 
must come--it must be organic, and it must come from the 
systems that exist, but with political cover and other 
technical support for those who are willing to do the hard work 
of uncovering and dealing with corruption. That is the only way 
that we can have sustainability in these other areas.
    I mentioned CICIG and MACCIH. Again, the model works when 
you have outside support, and not just from the United States. 
It can be from the OAS. In the case of CICIG, it was with the 
United Nations. But in the case of El Salvador, we had a very 
active attorney general, Melendez, who all he required was the 
support of the U.S. Embassy, plus the support of a few other 
external actors.
    And what we see is that if you have that level of 
international support and clear backing for those actors, they 
have enormous public backing. The political will exists. It 
exists in the population, and our job is to try to find ways to 
energize that and have that turn into policy locally.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you. My time is up.
    Congressman Green.
    Mr. Green. Thank you, Chairman.
    And, again, thank you both for your testimony today. 
Congratulations on your new positions. I want to--really 
appreciate that, and for your service to the country. Thanks 
for the call yesterday. I really appreciated that and enjoyed 
starting our relationship.
    I think there is a real opportunity for some bipartisanship 
here. I mean, I really do. Despite all of the other stuff where 
we disagree, I think most--or let me--let me make sure my words 
are as accurate as I can make them. There are many Democrats 
and many Republicans who recognize that dependence on China is 
bad for America, certainly in certain supply chains.
    I think there are Democrats and Republicans who see that 
manufacturing jobs have been significantly lost, and 
opportunity in Latin America is down. And I think there are 
Democrats and Republicans who see that that decreased 
opportunity is a part of the push factor out of Latin America, 
decreased opportunity and with the corruption and crime, all of 
the other things that we have talked about. So there is an 
opportunity.
    And I mentioned this--going after whether it is, you know, 
the Development Finance Corporation, you know, private dollars 
or some other source to incentivize--create incentives to have, 
you know, companies that are manufacturing in China move from 
there to Latin America. It would be great if they could come 
into the United States, but in many cases their business models 
just do not support that.
    So my question to both of you, and I really want to make 
sure I leave time for both of you to comment on this, what do 
you think are the real incentives? And what do we have to do to 
get those manufacturing jobs from China to Latin America?
    Mr. Zuniga. Mr. Ranking Member, thank you very much. That 
is a crucial point. The real factor in driving improvements in 
Central America is the creation of opportunities in Central 
America. Over the last month, since assuming this role, I have 
been approached by many U.S. companies and local companies with 
many ideas about ways to incentivize precisely that transfer of 
manufacturing from China to Central America. In many cases, it 
involves building out existing capacity.
    There is extensive capacity in the textiles sector, for 
example, and I think you identified correctly that we have an 
opportunity. And the fact that China is involved in Central 
America is because they also see an opportunity. We are talking 
about the challenges here today, but it is also important to 
note that CAFTA-DR countries represent our third largest market 
in the Americas. They support 134,000 U.S. jobs, and that is in 
dire conditions.
    If we are able to energize manufacturing, working with the 
actors that you named, the Development Finance Corporation, the 
IDB, the World Bank, and other actors, then--and identify those 
roadblocks, and they are beginning to come in with those 
roadblocks, and I would really welcome a chance to talk with 
you about that.
    Mr. Green. Yes. I look forward to that, too.
    And from USAID's perspective, I would really love to hear 
from you as well, sir.
    Mr. Natiello. Thank you for that question, Ranking Member, 
and we absolutely are keenly interested and promote the 
creation of jobs and the placement of young people in those 
jobs in Central America. Our efforts would benefit greatly from 
greater private investment in the region certainly.
    When I was Mission Director in El Salvador and would talk 
to private sector actors there, both from El Salvador and from 
other countries, I would ask them, what are the things that 
prevent greater private investment here? And they would often 
name two things. They would name inefficient customs, and they 
would name high energy costs. And that is why USAID has 
provided technical assistance to those countries, to help 
improve the efficiency of their customs systems and also to 
help with the issue of a regional integrated energy market for 
Central America.
    I do think some of the comments that have been made here 
this morning about perhaps local monopolies, et cetera, not 
having an interest in those kinds of regional integrated 
markets are a block that our diplomatic colleagues have worked 
on. They are important to address because it is tough to break 
those bottlenecks with foreign assistance alone.
    It is really important as we work together with the State 
Department and with our embassies in the region to address 
those kinds of governance blockages to the kinds of issues 
that----
    Mr. Green. Any help that we can give in addressing those 
blockages, as you--to use your term, I am all in.
    Real quick, for the written testimony coming back, because 
I only have 12 seconds, I would love also to hear about your 
thoughts on China and the commodity boom and its impact on the 
environment and how much that is a push factor. And I will have 
to get that in written testimony.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman Green.
    We now recognize Chairman Gregory Meeks.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me, again, thank 
you and Ranking Member Green. And I could not agree with you 
more, Mr. Chairman, that part of the problem has been we are 
not focused enough on the Western Hemisphere. I have been in 
Congress now for 22 years and on the Western Hemisphere 
subcommittee for 22 years before I became chairman of this 
committee.
    And I am saying that this committee will be focused and 
utilizing our oversight responsibility on what we are doing in 
trying to make--in the Western Hemisphere and making sure that 
we have some consistency as to what is taking place. That is 
tremendously important. There is a lot that is going on.
    And when we are talking about the underlying conditions 
that is taking place in the Northern Triangle, it is time for 
us to take a real focus on it and come and to make sure that we 
are getting the best bang for our buck.
    For example, let me ask this question. One of the issues 
that I often, you know, that concerns me, in 2019 the Honduras 
had the highest femicide rate of any Latin American country. 
And it was followed by El Salvador and Guatemala was rated 
seventh in femicides in the region.
    So, you know, then we had COVID-19 and many women and girls 
were isolated in unsafe environments. And although data on 
gender-based violence and femicide during the pandemic is hard 
to collect, we know that it continues.
    So my question is, to our witnesses, how does gender-based 
violence affect women and girls' likelihood of migrating and to 
try to get their children out? And how will the United States 
address gender-based violence in its strategy to tackle drivers 
of migration from the Northern Triangle?
    Mr. Zuniga. Mr. Chairman, thank you for that question. It 
really is central to the social difficulties and challenges 
faced across Central America. Gender-based violence is a major 
push factor, but it is not just that. It is also a major factor 
in the social dislocation that feeds, for example, the growth 
of gangs in El Salvador, and in many cases we have focused 
rightly on transnational organized crime and on crime 
associated with drug trafficking.
    But the fact is, crime is experienced different ways in El 
Salvador and Honduras and Guatemala. Extortion is one way, but 
violence in the home and violence against women is one of the 
leading causes of social instability.
    So the strategy that we are driving is going to put gender-
based violence at the center of our work because of its 
importance across all aspects of society in Central America, 
including for that matter in the economy. Women make up a very 
large proportion of the informal economy. Violence and 
insecurity experienced by women is a drag on every aspect of 
social life.
    Part of this is going to involve raising up the issue of 
gender-based violence as a core problem. But a lot of it is 
going to involve work that has been ongoing, working with civil 
society, working with law enforcement, and working with 
judiciaries to ensure that women have access to security and 
access to the judicial system. Unfortunately, impunity around 
domestic violence has also been a key factor in why it has 
continued.
    I am going to see if the other witness has anything that he 
would like to add. Mr. Natiello?
    Mr. Meeks. Do you have anything to add?
    Mr. Natiello. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that 
question. And I am just going to add to the Special Envoy's 
response that USAID uses foreign assistance resources to 
support responses to gender-based violence.
    Just two quick examples. In Guatemala, we recently 
inaugurated with the government two new centers that co-locate 
10 or more government services and government institutions to 
provide 24-hour services to women and child victims of 
violence. We are now working with the Guatemalan justice sector 
to expand this model to other regions of the country.
    And I will just say that in El Salvador we forwarded the 
establishment of 52 victims assistance centers with the 
Attorney General's Office. These operate with trained staff to 
provide legal and psychosocial services to victims, including 
victims of gender-based violence.
    I visited one of those centers when I was the Mission 
Director there in 2019, and it was good to see those women 
getting the services that they need because we all recognize 
that gender-based violence is an important driver of irregular 
migration.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you. Let me just ask another quick 
question with the little time I have. What impact does climate 
change have on migration? And do you believe that the United 
States should receive climate refugees? Yes or no.
    Mr. Zuniga. Climate has an immense impact on migration from 
Central America. Mr. Chairman, I believe you are familiar with 
the Dry Corridor, the expansion of the Dry Corridor, and the--
so there has to be an intense focus and has been already. We 
have dedicated significant resources to helping improve water 
systems and irrigation systems. That is also going to be an 
area of focus.
    The reality is that we have to help, in many different 
ways, the agricultural industry adapt to the new realities that 
we are seeing. Central America is one of the most impacted 
areas in the world as a result of climate change, affecting 
everything from the coffee harvest, the main export crop of 
Honduras, for example, to the ability of subsistence farmers to 
endure 1 year after another.
    And, finally, I would note that the historic hurricanes, 
two in a row, one right after the other in November of last 
year, are further evidence of the vulnerability of the region 
and why we are spending time there.
    On the issue of climate refugees, that is beyond my scope 
as Special Envoy, but I am happy to take that question back to 
the Department of State.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you. I am out of time. I yield back.
    Mr. Sires. We are now going to recognize Congressman 
Pfluger.
    Mr. Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Ranking Member 
Green; to the witnesses, congratulations, as my colleagues have 
mentioned, for your service, and thank you for stepping 
forward.
    Mr. Zuniga, for you, have you been to our southern border 
in the last couple of months to visit any of the facilities, 
whether they are processing sites, emergency intake facilities?
    Mr. Zuniga. Representative Pfluger, thank you very much for 
that question. I have not been to the southern border to 
examine the facilities. My very first posting was actually in 
Matamoros, Mexico. I am familiar with the Rio Grande Valley. 
But in this role, I have been focused on cooperating with 
governments in the region and assisting my colleagues who are 
very focused on the border itself, which is a very large 
contingent of both DHS, Health and Human Services, and other 
colleagues.
    Mr. Pfluger. So we have an HHS facility in my district that 
was just opened about 4 weeks ago. And one of the things that 
HHS officials are saying in Midland, Texas, and I suspect this 
is also the same in others, is that the asylum cooperative 
agreements that were in place and, you know, other policies, 
MPP, that have been rescinded, have directly led to an 
opening--a thought, a perception of opening the border.
    And right now you can look at the numbers. I think they 
speak for themselves. Whether it is 34,000 in March 2020, 
172,000 in March 2021, you know, there is an enormous amount of 
pressure on our southern border. So when will we get--I know 
there is discussions on these cooperative agreements. When will 
they actually be put back in place from the State Department's 
or the Administration's perspective?
    Mr. Zuniga. So President Biden, upon taking office, as part 
of his Executive Order suspended the implementation of the 
ACAs. Certainly, we recognize that there is immense pressure on 
the southwest border, as there has been in past years. In 2019, 
there was another massive wave of migration, even though it was 
very clear that the messaging was that people would not be able 
to get across the border.
    Our assessment is the push factors at this point, and 
especially now because of the hurricanes and the effects of the 
pandemic, are driving migration, along with messaging. Much of 
it is driven by coyotes and others who are making money.
    Mr. Pfluger. Do you think that the reason that the cartels, 
the coyotes, the drug trafficking organizations are 
incentivized--because the HHS officials in Midland have told me 
specifically that the--this is the largest amount and 
percentage of children who are being trafficked in the history 
of these issues.
    So I am very concerned, and I appreciate your testimony 
saying that Vice President Harris is going to take a strong 
stance to work with agreements in this countries. But to date, 
I have not seen any messaging. And as reflected in the lack of 
agreements, the reversal of these agreements, that is causing 
this surge right now.
    So I would like to understand what Vice President Harris is 
going to do, what you all are recommending to her on 
communication, coordination, and these different agreements 
with these countries that will stop that surge and actually 
lead to a more humane way of dealing with some of these folks 
who are in bad condition.
    Mr. Zuniga. So I think--Representative Pfluger, I think it 
is very important for us to communicate that we are going to 
enforce our border, that the law will be enforced.
    With respect to the ACAs, looking back at where they were 
implemented, it was really only implemented in Guatemala, and 
the total number of people removed under the ACA was 1,000 
people. Given the numbers of people that came in 2019 during 
that wave, and in earlier years and in the current one, that 
ultimately did not represent much of a disincentive.
    The other is there are many ways to communicate and create 
a psychology that people have a better reason to stay than to 
try to make that dangerous journey. And among other things, we 
have to work with governments on the communication side of 
this, and we do that. Just for one example, in the case of 
Guatemala, we communicate in five different indigenous 
languages using local providers who know the community and 
using information gleaned from the people who have had that 
experience to highlight the areas. The story is not just do not 
come, but why should not you come.
    Mr. Pfluger. I appreciate that. I am going to reclaim the 
last 15 seconds. And, look, I think the comments have been made 
before, we need to address the root causes, but there are also 
systemic symptoms that we can communicate better on that tell 
cartels and those organizations that are trafficking people 
that it is not okay to exploit children, especially right now.
    Title 42 should remain in place. It should be applied 
across the board, especially with the threat of COVID. Ten to 
11 percent in Midland, Texas, in our facility are positive with 
COVID, and this is just one of the issues that is going on.
    I would encourage everyone to think about how we 
communicate. It is imperative that Vice President Harris 
communicate that our border is closed. We will address the 
situation and the root causes in the best way we can, but right 
now that message is not being delivered. It needs to be 
delivered to everyone.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, thank you for the extra time.
    Mr. Sires. We now recognize Congressman Castro, and then we 
will go to our Ranking Member McCaul.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you. Earlier this week there were reports 
that the Biden Administration had made an agreement with the 
governments of Mexico, Guatemala, and Honduras to temporarily 
increase security at their borders in order to stop migrants 
from reaching the United States border.
    We have been informed by the State Department that those 
reports were not accurate, and there were no agreements reached 
with these countries. Rather than agreements, we have been told 
that there are continued conversations about reducing the flow 
of migration, including by strengthening border security. As 
you may understand, these early reports cause many human rights 
organizations to express concerns about potential escalating 
violence against migrants in the hands of police and troops.
    So I just want to confirm, were there any agreements 
reached in relation to increasing border security in these 
countries?
    Mr. Zuniga. Representative Castro, no, there were no 
agreements concluded with governments regarding border 
security. We do agree that it is very important to continue to 
work together and collaborate, to manage migration in a way 
that enhances the security of every country and allows 
governments to enforce their borders as--just as the United 
States does.
    In the case of unaccompanied children in particular, this 
very vulnerable group, one area that we want to continue to 
work on is with--to enhance the ability of social welfare 
agencies in each country to identify children that are 
traveling with caravans and other groups, and ensure that they 
are not able to continue on that dangerous journey unattended 
by any supervision at all, and there we have had some progress, 
including in Honduras, including in the most recent caravan. 
That seems to be an area where we have some additional 
cooperation.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Castro. All right. I have a question for Mr. Natiello. 
The role and presence of the United Nations in Mexico and 
Central America has increased significantly in the last several 
years. Today organizations like the U.N. Refugee Agency have an 
active and daily role in the processing of refugees reaching 
the U.S.-Mexico border.
    Can you describe the role of the U.N. in supporting 
refugees in the U.S.-Mexico border--at the U.S.-Mexico border?
    Mr. Natiello. Thanks for that question, Representative. Our 
colleagues at the State Department, the PRM colleagues, manage 
the refugee challenges, so they are best placed to respond to 
that. I will simply say that USAID has important partnerships 
with U.N. agency----
    Mr. Castro. Yes. I was going to ask, how can USAID work 
with the U.N. on this mission?
    Mr. Natiello. Thank you so much for that. And so through 
our humanitarian assistance programs--and, again, as I have 
mentioned earlier, we have recently stood up a Disaster 
Assistance Response Team, a DART. We stood one up in November 
after the hurricanes and took it down, but have stood it up 
again, given the serious acute food insecurity issues. We work 
very closely with the U.N. on humanitarian assistance with the 
World Food Programme, and with other U.N. organizations, as 
well.
    We have close relationships with the International 
Organization for Migration, and with IOM we are supporting 
returnees to have a dignified and a humane return back to their 
countries when they are sent back. With IOM, it is part of the 
U.N. system. We support seven returnee centers in the three 
countries, in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala.
    We also work closely with the UNDP on a program called 
Infosegura, and it is a really important tool to help the three 
governments collect data on crime and violence. And the 
governments and civil societies in those countries are using 
that data from UNDP to inform the making of public policy and 
to help mayors come up with better responses for----
    Mr. Castro. Thank you, Mr. Natiello. Let me reclaim my 
time, just because I want to make some closing remarks here.
    First of all, Mr. Zuniga, I want to wish you the best of 
luck on all of your very important work. I do think that the 
Biden Administration has a chance to reimagine how we approach 
this challenge. I think that whatever our politics are, I hope 
that we can agree that most people do not want to trek 1,000 
miles, leaving their home country, oftentimes with kids in tow, 
if they do not have to. I do not think that people consider 
that a summer camp activity.
    And so, as you think about how you do development, I think 
we have to be mindful of a few things. I mean, there are 
current conditions like the natural disasters, the abject 
poverty, corrupt leaders, violent drug gangs, that force people 
to leave their homes.
    There are also historical facts, including destabilizing 
U.S. interventions, significant interventions in Latin America 
over the years, if we are going to be honest with ourselves, 
that have destabilized the situation there.
    And we also have to make sure that in terms of our 
development work, often what I have seen is that the part of 
the way that we measure success is whether American companies 
get rich doing business down there. That is not the measure of 
success.
    I mean, look, we are all for American enterprise. We want 
our businesses to do well. But if we are talking about lifting 
a group of people and nations out of poverty, the measure--the 
primary measure cannot be whether, you know, a Fortune 500 
company or--you know, makes a lot of money in Latin America.
    So we have to be mindful of what we do with our investments 
and how we give the people of those nations a stake, including 
I think an ownership stake, in these enterprises, so that they 
can also take ownership and be lifted out of poverty and 
restore the rule of law in many of these places.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you. Ranking Member McCaul?
    Mr. McCaul. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, for 
holding this very important and timely hearing. I have dealt 
with this issue probably my entire professional career, both as 
a Federal prosecutor in the Western District of Texas, as 
chairman of the Homeland Security Committee for 6 years, and 
now as the ranking member of the full committee on the Foreign 
Affairs Committee.
    You will see in these pictures the recent trip--I just 
returned from the Rio Grande Valley sector. I think as both of 
you know, it is probably the most active, busiest sector, down 
on the border right now. It was, in my judgment, the worst I 
have ever seen it. A true humanitarian crisis.
    A trail of tears coming out of the Rio Grande River to the 
temporary detention facility, and then to the Donna Detention 
Facility, where these children were 100 percent over capacity 
in the pod space. Ten percent have COVID. That 5-year-old 
crying, not knowing where she was, not knowing--her parents 
aren't there, her family is not there, she is 5 years old.
    This should touch all Americans, not just Republicans or 
Democrats, but it is a sad, sad story. And we need to do 
something about this.
    When I talked to the Border Patrol sector chief, he told me 
this was not a seasonal phenomenon, that this was a direct 
cause and effect by the rescission of certain policies from the 
previous Administration, specifically the Remain in Mexico 
policy and the agreements that were hammered out between 
Central America, the asylum cooperation agreements.
    On the first day of office, President Biden rescinded these 
agreements. And within 2 months, we have the worst crisis that 
we have ever seen down there. And the Border Patrol--you listen 
to them, not the politicians--they will tell you it is a direct 
cause and effect of the President's actions.
    So, but I think we can still solve this problem, and we 
have to. We cannot allow this to go on. The traffickers, quite 
simply, are controlling our borders now, out-resourcing our 
Border Patrol agents, better technology, making $15 million a 
day, almost half a billion dollars a month, off these children 
that they exploit the 40-day trek from Central America. They 
exploit them and extort, as you know, the families, at 5-to 
$8,000 a child. They have to mortgage their homes and their 
ranches. We also need to address the root cause.
    I can talk all about border security all day long. But 
until we address the root cause it is going to continue to 
happen.
    We passed bipartisan--the chairman and the former chairman, 
Eliot Engel, and I--the Northern Triangle Enhanced Engagement 
Act signed into law. It requires basically the Administration 
to submit a 5-year strategy to address the drivers of illegal 
immigration. I think that is very prescient looking back on it, 
and we look forward to the report that is due I think within 
the first 6 months of this Administration.
    I want to close with this, and I have been talking to our 
Ambassadors, Mr. Zuniga, as I know you have been working very 
closely. I will be meeting with several of them later today 
about solutions.
    One solution I want to throw out to you. If the President 
is not willing to take these asylum policies and bring them 
back in place, we need to look at I think a very creative 
approach. This committee authorized into law the Development 
Finance Corporation. It was designed essentially to eliminate 
the political risk in developing nations to counter the 
influence of the Chinese Communist Party.
    I can think of no region in the world where this 
corporation, the DFC, could fit better, given China's 
activities in Central America. I have talked to a lot of 
investors about whether they think this is an opportunity, and 
I think the Development Finance Corporation, as you know, gets 
a return on its investment.
    I would urge you--I look forward to working with you, the 
two of you, on this very creative approach that I think from a 
foreign policy standpoint--I would consider this to be a 
foreign policy blunder, but I think a foreign policy success 
for all Americans and this Administration would be to work with 
the DFC and private investors.
    When I talked to the investor from Guatemala, he told me 
that that would help more than anything. Throwing billions of 
dollars down a rabbit hole in corrupt governance isn't always 
the answer. But this I think creates a very good opportunity 
that we should all be taking advantage of that can really get 
to the root cause of the problem.
    With that, I yield to the witnesses.
    Mr. Zuniga. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member. And I have to 
say, in fact, we have been working very actively with the DFC 
precisely because we believe that assistance has to be 
targeted. It is limited in how we can use it. Often you cannot 
use it with governments for precisely the oversight reasons 
that you mentioned. And it really is about creating 
opportunity.
    And so we have to work with people who know how to create 
opportunity, and that is the private sector, that is technical 
specialists in the DFC and others who know how to build small 
and medium enterprises, which is the major employer really in 
Central America beyond manufacturing and large-scale 
enterprises.
    There is a lot of talent in not just the DFC but in the 
partners that they work with. For example, in the Central 
American Economic Integration Bank where they already have $100 
million to assist small companies affected by COVID, the 
pandemic, and there is enormous opportunity there.
    With regard to the strategy, we are in fact working on that 
strategy. We would like it to be collaborative. And rather than 
presenting a finished product, what we want to do is bring a 
product that--and we are going to continue to work with you and 
your teams to ensure that we have as much of a consensus vision 
as we can possibly get regarding our investment, the investment 
of tax dollars, but also the investment of our political 
profile and our time and the time of Members of Congress to 
address these root causes, and beginning with rule of law, 
which--and creating a level playing field for those who want to 
invest in Latin America and Central America.
    Ambassador Quinonez of Guatemala is an excellent partner, 
and we completely agree and we work very closely with him and 
look forward to working with you and your team.
    Mr. McCaul. Mr. Chairman, if I could say in closing, I am 
not--I am really not interested in scoring political points on 
the backs of these children. What I am interested in doing is 
solving a crisis, and it is a crisis. So I would offer my 
assistance to work with this Administration to resolve this 
issue, because it is an American issue that we need to fix for 
these children precisely.
    And this is, Mr. Chairman, why this committee I think had 
the foresight to authorize the Development Finance Corporation 
into law in the first place. I was one of the main authors of 
that bill, and I know this is precisely what it was designed to 
do.
    And so thank you so much. I yield back.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    We now recognize Congressman Andy Levin for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, for holding 
this incredibly important hearing.
    Hurricanes Eta and Iota devastated Guatemala and Honduras 
last year. People lost their homes and in some cases their 
crops, schools, and access to roads. These storms were part of 
the most active Atlantic hurricane season on record, and 
climate change experts say it is just a preview of what is to 
come for Central America.
    Storm winds and rains are getting heavier, and storms are 
getting slower, sitting on top of communities for days at a 
time. Experts say that as these impacts of climate change 
intensify we should expect to see even more migration 
northward.
    So let me ask both of you to comment briefly. Given that 
the region has struggled with repeated environmental shocks in 
recent years, does the Administration intend to put a greater 
emphasis on climate adaptation efforts as part of its plans to 
tackle the root causes of migration?
    Mr. Zuniga. Thank you very much, Representative Levin. Yes. 
That is absolutely the intent of the Administration. As you 
say, the extraordinary vulnerability of populations in Central 
America to the effects of climate change, which are felt today 
and in recent years, and not at some future date, we understand 
that that is a major driver of insecurity and lack of 
opportunity in Central America.
    That seems like a very clear area in which we need to put 
our focus. That happens to be one of the areas where the Vice 
President is very focused as well. And we are looking to work 
with partners to drive that agenda.
    Mr. Levin. Mr. Natiello, do you want to comment briefly?
    Mr. Natiello. Yes. Thank you very much for that question. 
And we see climate change certainly as a critical issue for the 
region. USAID has and will continue--and we expect to deepen 
our efforts under the current Administration--to support 
communities, particularly in the Dry Corridor, to better manage 
their water, so better watershed management.
    We currently do--we work with thousands of farm families on 
drip irrigation. We have had great success with that. As I 
mentioned in my opening comments, we have reached about 250,000 
people in Honduras in the Dry Corridor with those efforts which 
are increasing incomes. And these people say they are less 
inclined to migrate than the national average.
    We also help farmers diversify their crops to manage their 
risks against climate change, and particularly by introducing 
agroforestry and tree crops because those are important for 
climate as well.
    And the last thing I will say is that our Bureau of 
Humanitarian Assistance at USAID is very focused on these 
issues. They just stood up a Disaster Assistance Response Team 
and are providing support now, given the acute food insecurity 
in the region that we are seeing. And that will continue to be 
an important intervention for USAID. We will continue to 
support governments in terms of strengthening their 
capabilities to better manage disasters and to get out ahead of 
them, so that there is a lower impact on human lives.
    Mr. Levin. All right. Let me move to my next point. And 
since you already spoke to this, I am just going to ask you to 
get back to me on it. Regardless of how well we do with 
mitigation, the impacts of climate change are so massive at 
this point that we are not going to prevent climate refugees 
from Central America from migrating northward altogether, in 
the short term certainly.
    So I am going to ask you to get back to me. You said that, 
you know, the whole question of asylum for climate refugees is 
something that you are not sure about or it is not in your 
wheelhouse. I am going to ask you to get back to me about the 
Administration's policy, because this is something we simply 
have to deal with.
    Finally, let me ask you, Mr. Zuniga, about our history in 
Central America, our history of intervention, which is both 
very long and goes to very recent times, including overthrowing 
democratic governments.
    What can you tell us about the level of trust or, on the 
other hand, the level of skepticism that exists in the region 
about our relationship, and how does that impact your 
diplomatic efforts? And given the level of skepticism, what do 
you think could be done to rebuild trust between the United 
States and the countries of the Northern Triangle?
    Mr. Zuniga. Thank you, Representative Levin. I think the 
important point here is twofold. One, that certainly we have a 
complex history in Central America. We also have very deep 
connections between our societies. Just in the case of El 
Salvador, with 3 million Salvadorans living in the United 
States, the reality is that they view, Central Americans view 
themselves as deeply connected to the United States.
    And I would say that the recent episodes demonstrate that 
when things go wrong in Central America, they impact the United 
States. That is why it is so important for us to respond as a 
nation on that point.
    The second point I would say is, how do we build trust? 
First, by presence, by being there, by demonstrating that we 
are on the side of those who are enduring difficult conditions, 
and in particular in the area of government. They should have 
hope, and that is something that the United States can do in a 
very clear manner.
    Mr. Levin. My time has expired. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 
very much.
    Mr. Sires. We now recognize Congresswoman Salazar.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Chairman, and Ricardo Zuniga, 
welcome, and may the Lord help you with your new job.
    You know, I represent District Number 27, which is the home 
of thousands of people from Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, 
Nicaragua, Miami, the capital of the Americas. Not only I lived 
in Central America, was a war correspondent for Univision 
Network while the civil war was going on, so I not only love 
the area, know it very well, but now represent the people.
    We have been talking about child sex trafficking, which is, 
I am sure you know, one of the fastest-growing international 
crimes in the world, and unfortunately the southern border is 
the port of entry. This year, the Biden Administration has 
apprehended 52,000 families, but only 140--52,000, under 140 
were DNA tested.
    So that means that we do not know if the adult that is 
accompanying the child is the father or the trafficker. And now 
it has stopped running DNA samples--the Administration.
    So, in other words, if you think about it, the American 
authorities are facilitating the traffickers to keep their 
preys. Don't you think this is embarrassing? This is a problem.
    Mr. Zuniga. Thank you, Representative Salazar. I agree that 
it is a priority to identify and for the U.S. authorities to be 
able to make sure that the welfare of the children is at the 
top of the agenda.
    Ms. Salazar. But it is not happening. It is not happening, 
and there is no money to it. Now let's go to the money; that is 
what we are here for. $4 billion in direct cash payments to 
Central America. I agree with you that we should have a marshal 
plan in place for the area. But when you see that the 
Hondurans--1 out of $10 in Honduras goes to the hands of 
corruption or to corrupt politicians or to the drug cartels.
    And in Guatemala, 65 percent of the Guatemalans do not 
trust the government. One out of 4 has paid a bribe. Who are we 
giving this money to? To the NGO's?
    Mr. Zuniga. Primarily to--first of all, we completely agree 
that oversight of U.S. taxpayer dollars has to be the priority.
    Ms. Salazar. Right.
    Mr. Zuniga. So the way that we do that is by working with 
trusted partners who have reliably worked----
    Ms. Salazar. And who are those?
    Mr. Zuniga. So it depends on the circumstance, but usually 
it is implementers that the United States has a long experience 
with that are either in the United States or in the region. 
So----
    Ms. Salazar. But who are they, NGO's, private sector?
    Mr. Zuniga. NGO's.
    Ms. Salazar. Because the private sector does not have--this 
bill does not include any moneys directly to the private 
sector. And as my colleague Congressman Mark Green said, that 
we need to be giving incentives to the private sector to 
attract those American companies that leave China and come to 
Central America. But you do not have one penny in this $4 
billion package that will do that.
    Mr. Zuniga. So the money that we are talking about here is 
money that is for development assistance. There is funding that 
goes to finance--to prioritize financing. The Development 
Finance Corporation uses and stimulates private lending, but 
there is also additional forms of financing that----
    Ms. Salazar. How much is that? Don't you think that a piece 
of the 4 billion should be going to incentivize the American 
companies to come to Central America and absorb that labor 
force?
    Mr. Zuniga. At this point, I believe the Development 
Finance Corporation has over $1 billion invested in 
facilitating the economy, in stimulating the economy in Central 
America, with a focus on small, medium-sized----
    Ms. Salazar. That is a good start.
    Mr. Zuniga [continuing]. Business.
    Ms. Salazar. You know, corruption. We have been talking 
about corruption. It starts when the police force stops doing 
its job and loses credibility.
    Here is a fact: 66 percent of Hondurans do not have any 
confidence in their police force. And look at Guatemala. That 
is the Guatemalan map. Those red dots are land invasions by 
narcos, and the Guatemalan forces do not have the capacity to 
go in there. It is the whole country. Did you know about this? 
I am sure you will.
    So this 4 billion package does not include security 
cooperation agreements. What is that? American advisors, ex-
military colonels or military personnel, going and living in 
those countries and helping train those--I am sure you know 
this--and helping train the police forces in Guatemala, El 
Salvador, throughout the whole Central America.
    This 4 billion package does not have any of that. So if 
you--if the police force cannot go save their own people, do 
you think the NGO's are really going to invest anything or any 
money in this? So do not you think it would be a good--so did 
you know about the security cooperation agreements?
    Mr. Zuniga. So, Representative Salazar, actually, a 
percentage of the $4 billion is going to go through State INL, 
which is intended to support exactly the kind of police units, 
particularly vetted units that we can trust to help us overcome 
the very significant threat of transnational organized crime.
    And I think you exactly identified the main point here, 
which is lack of trust in government. And that requires work on 
behalf of our partners. We think----
    Ms. Salazar. In simple terms, in which way we, our 
military, can help and train those police officers or those 
police forces?
    Mr. Zuniga. U.S. military cooperation in Central America 
has been a vital supporter of stability but also governance. 
And that is going to remain a very important fact of our 
cooperation. U.S. Southern Command has extensive relationships 
and uses those to promote exactly the kind of close 
collaboration and respect for civilian leadership that we 
support in the United States.
    Ms. Salazar. But you are not giving them extra funds to 
expand that program, coming from the Southern Command, in this 
4 billion direct cash payments to Central American governments.
    Mr. Zuniga. So there is security cooperation over which DoD 
has control through DoD funding, and then you also have 
basically collaboration between U.S. Southern Command and the 
work that is done with development dollars.
    And just as one example, the U.S. Southern Command also 
helped build resilience for natural disaster response. They 
were very active after the hurricanes. In fact, they were the 
first forces on the ground in Guatemala and Honduras in 
delivering aid but also in rescuing people, so we have a very 
close relationship----
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Mr. Zuniga [continuing]. With them.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you.
    Mr. Sires. Congressman Vincente Gonzalez, you are on.
    Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you. And thank you to the panel, and 
thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Folks, I am going to ask you--I have a few questions, so if 
you can keep your answers as concise as possible.
    And I agree with a lot of Representative Salazar just said. 
The Biden Administration has emphasized the importance of the 
private sector in creating employment opportunities in the 
formal sector and contributing to economic growth. For 
communities in the Northern Triangle, the concern seems to be--
in the U.S. is these funds going to corrupt institutions or 
officials or NGO's that really do not get the job done. We have 
invested hundreds of millions already, and really we--a lot of 
us do not see the results.
    What are we doing differently this time to be able to 
measure results and be able to pull the plug on something that 
is not working earlier on before we go all the way in? Do we 
have a system in place to where we have expectations, whether 
it is an NGO or the private sector or whatever government 
institution we are dealing with, so that does not happen?
    Mr. Natiello. Thanks for that question, Representative. 
Just a few quick points on that. As a general rule, at USAID we 
do not give our funds to foreign governments. That is 
particularly the case in the Northern Triangle.
    Just to put it in perspective, of our Fiscal Year budget of 
$311 million, 5.8 million I believe went to governments. That 
is about 1.6 percent of the total appropriation in 2020.
    Again, we work with trusted partners, contractors, NGO's, 
international organizations like the U.N. that I mentioned 
earlier. We work through grants and contracts that are subject 
to audits. The oversight starts with our field missions in the 
three countries, and it certainly extends to the USAID 
inspector general----
    Mr. Gonzalez. So what are we----
    Mr. Natiello [continuing]. Who watches those and--yes.
    Mr. Gonzalez. What are we doing to check in on them 
regularly, every so often, to assure we are moving in the right 
direction? Because we have spent hundreds of millions of 
dollars in Central America and still I can tell you--I 
represent a border district, the Rio Grande Valley, that has 
really been hit hard by the complexities of Central America.
    So I would love to see the investments have results, and 
hopefully calm the migration that we have coming. What are we 
doing besides getting NGO's and USAID? Do we have a plan in 
place to have measurable results before we spend all of these 
billions of dollars that we are committed to, to assure that at 
the end of the day we have measurable results that have a 
lasting impact on our southern border?
    Mr. Natiello. Thank you for that, sir. For all of the 
investments that we make, we do have performance monitoring 
plans. We have project managers that monitor regularly those 
investments. We absolutely take feedback from our monitoring 
systems and we make adjustments.
    I will just give you one quick example. When I got to El 
Salvador in 2017, we had just cutoff a project in a 
municipality where the mayor was not keen to work with us, and 
he was not serious about addressing the challenges that we 
wanted to address in partnership with him and with his 
municipality.
    More recently, in El Salvador, we took a look at our data. 
We take a hard look at data on who is migrating and why, and we 
used that data to shut down one line of effort, which was 
university partnerships, and we are moving it toward more 
vocational training for young men, unemployed, victims of 
violence, in urban areas.
    Mr. Gonzalez. I have a few more questions I would like to 
ask. The next concern is Honduras. As we know, the present 
president's brother is serving a life-term sentence here in the 
United States. I think he has been looking at--he has been 
looked at, and now we have a candidate, Yani Rosenthal, who 
spent 4 years in U.S. prison and is--now I believe is indicted.
    What are we doing to assure that people like this do not 
become presidents of these countries?
    Mr. Zuniga. Thank you very much, Representative Gonzalez. I 
think it is important here to point out that it is really up to 
the people of Honduras to elect their leaders, but of course 
the United States selects who we work with. And as we have made 
very clear, we are prepared to work with those who are as 
committed as we are to the fight against corruption and 
transnational organized crime.
    So we respect the elections, but we also have standards for 
the people that we work with.
    Mr. Gonzalez. Yes. This is obviously a critical concern. 
And last, and I know we are running out of time, is--and some 
of you all may know, I have been advocating being on the 
border, and on border with small municipal communities that 
cannot--do not have the resources to deal with, you know, the 
last 173,000 people who came mostly to my section of the 
border, has really overwhelmed us and overwhelmed, you know, 
all our local capacity.
    And what I have advocated for is to have the same system 
that we have in my district in a very humane, clean, first-
class American facilities closer to them on the southern 
Mexican border or the Guatemalan border, because I do not 
believe this is going to end. I mean, we are talking about 
climate migration down the road, and maybe other countries down 
the road.
    What are we doing in planning long-term ideas to be able to 
help folks closer to home and have these processing centers and 
maybe refugee settlements, or whatever it is to do--to help 
this mass migration that is coming north, further south, and to 
keep them from coming through Mexico, which at this time me and 
my neighboring Congressman calculated that just in the last 90 
days cartels have probably been enriched about $1.2 billion 
just from the migration that occurred this year.
    At $6,000 a head, at an average of $6,000 a head that they 
are charging, I figure that if we had the operations that we 
have in my district, in cooperation with Mexico or Guatemala or 
both on that border, and had the same system in place, and 
whether you are looking for a credible threat or ultimately I 
envision actually having--being able to have your asylum 
hearing in safe zones where we can assure their--guarantee 
their safety, I think we need to start having out-of-the-box 
ideas or we are going to continue dealing with this on our 
southern border.
    And when I say ``doing this in these countries,'' I mean 
doing it in a fashion that is first class, that is respectable, 
that is humane, that is clean and dignified, no different than 
as if they came to the United States. And if they have a 
credible threat, or if they are granted asylum, they can just 
get in an airplane and fly in and kick the cartels out of this 
equation.
    And with that, I yield back.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
    Do you want to respond to that?
    Mr. Zuniga. If I could. Congressman, you have exactly 
defined our effort in Mexico and in northern Central America to 
build that capacity locally because, among other things, Mexico 
is no longer just a transit country. It is a destination 
country.
    And we do know that--and, in fact, we have committed 
significant resources over the last few years working with 
international organizations to build protect capacity into the 
immigration systems along the way, and in close collaboration 
with governments in Mexico and in Central America to do 
precisely that.
    And, as you say, the importance has to be treating people 
with dignity and giving them access to the resources locally so 
that they do not feel like they have to transit to the U.S. 
border.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you. I would----
    Mr. Sires. Lo siento. Sorry.
    We now recognize Juan Vargas, who is a member of the 
committee, and then we will do Mr. Scott Perry.
    Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I 
appreciate, again, the opportunity to speak. I want to thank 
you for holding this hearing, and the ranking member of course, 
as well as the witnesses who have testified here today.
    I want to agree with some of the things my colleagues have 
said on that side of the aisle. I certainly think that China 
poses the greatest threat for the United States going forward, 
and I do think that many of the things they are doing in 
Central America are very damaging, not only to Central 
Americans but certainly to us.
    And I do hope that there are ways for us to bring 
manufacturing back to the United States. If we cannot bring it 
back to the United States, Central America, or Mexico, or other 
places, again, I think that China is our--not only our greatest 
competitor but our greatest threat. I agree with that--my 
colleagues on the other side.
    I do agree also that many of them who spoke and have great 
sensitivity and love for the children that are coming and want 
to take care of them, I agree wholeheartedly with that. But the 
notion that we have open borders is ridiculous, absolutely 
ridiculous.
    I live on the border. I can tell you we have 60 miles of 
border in San Diego, linear border. We have 2,200 border patrol 
agents. In 1993, we had 1,000. If you take a look at some of 
the apprehensions that we have had, certainly they are high, 
but nowhere near as high as we had in 1986 and 1996. We had 
ones that reached up to 1.6 million. The numbers were much, 
much larger. It all depends on what happens in Central America 
or Mexico.
    We have had, of course, these disasters in Central America. 
We have had these two giant hurricanes. And something that was 
brought up just slightly by my colleague, Representative 
Salazar, I, too, lived in El Salvador for a while. I was a 
Jesuit at the time studying to be a priest. I was in an 
orphanage.
    I can tell you, during that civil war, 200,000 Guatemalans 
were killed, most of whom were murdered because they were 
indigenous people that were supposedly potentially guerillas or 
guerilla sympathizers. They were murdered by death squads, and 
they were murdered by the military.
    In El Salvador, 70,000 people were killed during that civil 
war, again, many murdered by death squads, and also by the 
military, so--including a number of my Jesuit colleagues.
    So when you take a look at what is happening in Central 
America, it has been a disaster. But the notion that this is 
new, that this has never happened before, is not true. We have 
had this in our history. I can tell you along--I have lived 
most of my life along the border in California and Mexico. We 
have at different times large numbers of migrants coming. That 
is just the way it has been.
    I do want to ask, however, about the issues associated with 
the two hurricanes and especially in Honduras. It does sound 
like climate change, the dry areas that they speak of have 
really been disastrous for Honduras and the rest of the country 
there, but especially Honduras.
    Can someone comment directly on that? Maybe Mr. Zuniga.
    Mr. Zuniga. Thank you, Representative Vargas, and I should 
just add, I was with the rector of the University of Central 
America, Padre Andreu, last week and had an opportunity to 
speak with him about the work done by the Jesuit community in 
El Salvador and the work that they continue to do to promote 
civil society and human rights in Central America.
    With regard to the hurricanes, we are talking about storms 
that displaced hundreds of thousands of people, that as the 
chairman noted at the very beginning affected 9 million people 
in total in Central America over a period of several weeks. 
That disaster is not over. It continues. There remain tens of 
thousands of people who are effectively displaced, joining, in 
the case of Honduras, up to 250,000 people who were already 
displaced for other causes.
    This is the community that is highly at risk, and so this 
is why we dedicate significant resources to attending to their 
humanitarian needs as an acute manner. As opposed to being a 
root cause, this is an acute cause, and we need to focus on 
victims of disaster now, and that is how we have been directed 
to dedicate our time and attention. And we are pleased to do 
that with our colleagues at USAID.
    Mr. Vargas. Any comment from USAID?
    Mr. Natiello. Yes. Thank you, Representative Vargas, for 
that question. Just with respect to the Dry Corridor in 
Honduras, again, we are very focused on that. We work with 
thousands of farm families there. Our focus has been 
onmanagement, introducing drip irrigation, diversifying crops, 
and helping farmers grow crops that have better market 
opportunities.
    And we combine that with nutritional interventions, so that 
families have a better diet. And, again, we have--just going 
back to the issue of measuring, when we survey a sample of 
those farmers and their families, they tell us they are 78 
percent less likely to migrate as they see these improvements 
in their situation than the national average of Hondurans. So 
that is just one example of the kind of work we are doing in 
the Dry Corridor.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Vargas. Thank you. And just to conclude, I want to 
thank Mr. Zuniga for mentioning La UCA. La UCA is the 
Universidad Centroamericana Simeon Canas. They were my 
superiors when I was there, and the director there was Ignacio 
Ellacuria, one of the Jesuits who were murdered. They are great 
people, and thank you for working with them. I appreciate it.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
    We now recognize Scott Perry, Congressman Scott Perry.
    Mr. Perry. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for the 
opportunity to speak this morning. And congratulations to Mr. 
Zuniga.
    And for many Americans, what seems to be happening or what 
they believe right now is happening is what appears to them is 
we are replacing national-born American, native-born Americans 
to permanently transform the political landscape of this very 
nation.
    The President's policies have led to nearly 19,000--19,000 
unaccompanied minors being apprehended last month. That is a 
100 percent increase from February.
    A 2017 survey conducted by Doctors Without Borders 
indicates that nearly one-third of all girls and women were 
sexually abused during their journey to the United States. That 
is staggering to me. That is staggering to me. Because of 
this--the Biden-Harris Administration's immigration initiatives 
that actually encourage disregard for our laws, border 
traffickers reportedly made $14-to $15 million a day. I do not 
know which one it is. But it is a whole lot of money, and we 
are encouraging that. We are aiding and abetting that. I find 
that completely unacceptable.
    The human and drug trafficking are a twofold scourge on our 
Nation, and this Administration's negligence in confronting the 
exploitation of children--of children. It is disgusting, 
untenable, unacceptable, and in complete contradiction of our 
values.
    Now, this Administration is proposing taxpayers now pay 
billions to Central America to stem this tide. While we are 
talking about resources, let's just talk about what a Border 
Patrol agent would tell you if you asked them what they need, 
what they are looking for to do their job, to protect our 
country. That is a border wall.
    On day one of this presidency, this President stopped wall 
construction, which had an estimated cost of 2-to $3 billion to 
terminate all of the construction contracts. Whether this $4 
billion, or whatever it is going to be, is meaningful and 
successful or not, is immaterial to the fact that we just threw 
2 to $3 billion away for something that does, in some effect, 
work. Not completely. It is in concert with other things. We 
just threw that money away.
    The sad truth is that border officials encountered 172,000 
migrants last month, which is 10 times the figure from April in 
2020. I disagree with my good friend from San Diego that this 
isn't a problem and this hasn't happened before.
    Let me ask you this, Mr. Zuniga. Does this Administration 
consider Mexico an unsafe country?
    Mr. Zuniga. Mexico, as the authorities in Mexico themselves 
would tell you, has to contend with a very high level of 
violence and insecurity. In fact, they dedicate significant 
resources to contending with precisely that.
    Mr. Perry. So does that mean the Administration--do you 
consider Mexico an unsafe country?
    Mr. Zuniga. Mexico has to contend with----
    Mr. Perry. I mean, I am using the term ``unsafe country'' 
because, as you probably know, it is definitional regarding 
policy. So unsafe or not? I mean, I know you--I know I keep 
saying it, but I am trying to figure out if you are going to 
say it is unsafe or not.
    Mr. Zuniga. Representative Perry, Mexico has areas that are 
safe and areas that are not. It is a large country, and there 
are areas that are particularly vulnerable to transnational 
organized crime.
    Mr. Perry. The foreign minister, in September 2019, Ebrard, 
stated that the trend is irreversible, that we did not need a 
safe third-party agreement with Mexico because there were less 
and less people going to the border, due to policy by the way, 
due to policy, but he said the trend is irreversible, so we do 
not need a safe third-party agreement, which goes to unsafe or 
safe.
    You are saying it is--well, you are not saying anything. 
You will say some of it is safe, some of it is unsafe. For the 
point that it is unsafe, I would ask you, why are we allowing 
hundreds of foreign nationals from this unsafe country to come 
into America? And I am sure you know, over 1,000 of people that 
came in just last month convicted of assault, battery, domestic 
violence, burglary, robbery, theft, drug possession and 
trafficking, sexual offenses, some on the terrorism watch list. 
Why would we allow that?
    And if it is not unsafe, and if it is a safe country, then 
why aren't we enforcing the international standard that 
refugees who seek asylum in the first safe country--why aren't 
they doing that in Mexico? And I would just ask you, one or the 
other.
    Mr. Zuniga. So, Representative Perry, No. 1, the 
Administration is committed to enforcing U.S. law and to 
securing the border. Second, as has been noted, the United 
States has dedicated resources and worked with Mexican 
authorities and international organizations to reinforce the 
ability of Mexican authorities and others to provide security 
in Mexico and to provide security for those who are in 
vulnerable situations.
    So improving protection capacity, not just in Mexico but in 
Central America as a whole, is part of the Biden 
Administration's policy toward Central America.
    Mr. Perry. I yield back. It ain't working, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Congresswoman Sara Jacobs, you are recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Jacobs. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks for letting me 
participate in this subcommittee hearing. I would first like to 
just associate myself with the comments of my fellow San 
Diegan, Representative Vargas, about the situation we have in 
San Diego, and welcome any of my colleagues who would like to 
come visit us and see.
    To our witnesses, thank you for joining us.
    I wanted to talk a little bit about violence reduction. You 
both mentioned in your testimony how important violence was as 
a push factor, and we know that gang violence is distinct from 
other forms of conflict but also has a lot of similarities.
    So I was just wondering if you both could talk about what 
you are doing to address violence and what we have learned from 
other efforts to address violence and conflict in the region.
    Mr. Zuniga. I will speak briefly, but my colleague from 
USAID has direct experience in El Salvador where we have 
managed many of those.
    I would say we have actually learned quite a bit over the 
last few years about how to deal with what is a very deeply 
embedded social violence in the case of gang violence. It is 
not just in the case of homicides, which have come down 
significantly, but also in what people experience in daily life 
in terms of insecurity and their perception of insecurity. That 
changes behavior, and it changes the sense of when people feel 
like they can make their lives and home.
    What we found is that there are interventions that are 
particularly effective, and they are not always, at first 
glance, what would be popular in communities that have been 
racked by violence. But interventions like cognitive behavioral 
therapy, not just with perpetrators but with their families and 
people who are their victims, it is particularly effective over 
time.
    One thing that we found is that one of the real challenges 
of gangs, not just in Central America but in many other places, 
is an inability of people to leave that life. And so looking at 
it as a phenomenon and not just the crime that happens, but 
where it comes from, is an important part of finding ways to 
contend with it, and we have found excellent partners across 
Central America in helping us deal with this.
    It is an intensive approach, but it does yield results. 
There are others as well, some involving law enforcement, and 
that is very important. This is not a situation where you can 
take law enforcement out of the equation. It has to be a part 
of it, but there also need to be other interventions.
    Let me pass this on to my colleague.
    Mr. Natiello. Thank you. Thank you, Representative Jacobs, 
for that question. USAID is very engaged in this space, and let 
me talk about how we work at the national level and then come 
down to the community levels.
    At the national level, we do a lot of work to collect data 
and evidence on what kind of crimes are occurring and where 
they are occurring. We share that data. We use that data to 
bring together policymakers from the three countries, so that 
they can make smarter policies that address violence. That is 
at the national level.
    We share that data with mayors in the most dangerous 
municipalities. And then we work closely with those mayors, 
with the local leaders in those municipalities, to focus even 
at the neighborhood level, to build community centers and 
after-school programs for kids, the kind of therapy programs 
that the Special Envoy mentioned when we find at-risk families.
    And I think it is important to note that over time the 
murder rates in the three countries have gone down 
considerably. I think in 2013, in El Salvador, the murder rate 
was 103 people per 100,000 citizens. I think in 2019, it came 
down to 52, and I think today it is even much lower. So we are 
seeing impact. We are seeing positive impacts in that space.
    And then another key thing that we do as part of these 
efforts is to take back territorial control from the gangs and 
from the violent actors. One quick example there, the Cuscatlan 
Park in the city center of San Salvador, really an emblematic 
park for that country, was overrun by gangs and violence.
    We worked with the mayor, we worked with community leaders, 
we worked with the private sector, to take that park back. 
There were 70,000 visitors to that park over the course of the 
3 months prior to COVID, and I think about 90 percent of those 
people said they feel safe in that park.
    That is an example of taking space back for citizens, so 
they can be with their families, they can recreate their 
communities, and they can envision a better future.
    Ms. Jacobs. Well, thank you for that work and the progress. 
In my last couple of seconds, Mr. Natiello, I was just hoping 
you could talk about the Partnership for Growth model, if you 
are planning on bringing it back, or if there are any lessons 
you are taking from that program to how you are operating in 
these countries now.
    Mr. Natiello. So on the Partnership for Growth, I would say 
that, you know, we will implement the policies of the Biden 
Administration, and certainly economic growth is critical to 
address the kind of problems that we have discussed here today. 
USAID is very engaged with private sector partners and with 
governments to try to create economic opportunities in these 
three countries.
    We have had some success, but as many have said, this is a 
long-term challenge that requires us to continue to look for 
those private sector partnerships, build those conditions for 
private investment, so that the jobs can be created 
particularly for young people in these countries.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you. Thank you again to our witnesses and 
the members for joining us for this important hearing. Stemming 
the flow of irregular migration from Central America will 
require long-term commitment from the United States to deepen 
our diplomatic and foreign assistance efforts.
    I look forward to working closely with my colleagues and 
the Biden Administration to help foster the necessary political 
and economic conditions whereby citizens throughout the region 
can imagine a future in their home country.
    With that, the committee is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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