[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S
RESPONSE TO COVID-19 IN LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, CIVILIAN SECURITY, AND TRADE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JULY 1, 2020
__________
Serial No. 116-124
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov,
or www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
41-238 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York, Chairman
BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York Member
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida JOE WILSON, South Carolina
KAREN BASS, California SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts TED S. YOHO, Florida
DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin
DINA TITUS, Nevada ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota JOHN CURTIS, Utah
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota KEN BUCK, Colorado
COLIN ALLRED, Texas RON WRIGHT, Texas
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania GREG PENCE, Indiana
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey STEVE WATKINS, Kansas
DAVID TRONE, Maryland MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
JIM COSTA, California
JUAN VARGAS, California
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
Jason Steinbaum, Staff Director
Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, and Trade
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey, Chairman
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida, Ranking
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas Member
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota TED S. YOHO, Florida
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan JOHN CURTIS, Utah
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas KEN BUCK, Colorado
JUAN VARGAS, California MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
Alexander Brockwehl, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
OPENING STATEMENT FROM CHAIRMAN SIRES
Opening statement submitted for the record from Chairman Sires... 3
WITNESSES
Kozak, Honorable Michael G., Acting Assistant Secretary, Bureau
of Western Hemisphere Affairs, U.S. Department of State........ 10
Hodges, Josh, Senior Deputy Assistant Administrator, Bureau for
Latin America and the Caribbean, United States Agency for
International Development...................................... 17
APPENDIX
Hearing Notice................................................... 42
Hearing Minutes.................................................. 43
Hearing Attendance............................................... 44
RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Responses to questions for Mr. Kozak submitted for the record
from Chairman Sires............................................ 45
Responses to questions for Mr. Hodges submitted for the record
from Chairman Sires............................................ 59
Responses to questions for Mr. Kozak submitted for the record
from Representative Phillips................................... 74
Responses to questions for Mr. Hodges submitted for the record
from Representative Phillips................................... 77
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
USAID letter submitted for the record............................ 81
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S RESPONSE TO COVID-19 IN LATIN AMERICA AND
THE CARIBBEAN
Wednesday, July 1, 2020
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,
Civilian Security and Trade,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC,
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:11 p.m., in
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Albio Sires
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Sires. Good afternoon, everyone. And thank you to our
witnesses for being here today.
This hearing will come to order. Without objection, the
chair is authorized to declare a recess of the committee at any
point, and all members will have 5 days to submit statements,
extraneous material, and questions for the record subject to
the length limitation in the rules.
To insert something into the record, please have your staff
email the previously mentioned address or contact full
committee staff.
As a reminder to members, staff and all others physically
present in this room per recent guidance from the Office of the
Attending Physician, masks must be worn at all times during
today's proceeding except when a member is speaking at the
microphone.
Please also sanitize your seating area. The chair views
these measures as a safety issue, therefore an important matter
of order and decorum for this proceeding.
Please keep your video function on at all times even when
you are not recognized by the chair. Members are responsible
for muting and unmuting themselves, and please remember to mute
yourself after you finish speaking.
Consistent with H.Res. 965 and the accompanied regulations,
staff will only mute members and witnesses as appropriate when
they are not under recognition to eliminate background noise.
I see that we have a quorum, and we will now recognize--I
will now recognize myself for remarks.
I want you to know that I shortened this for you,
Ambassador.
Mr. Kozak. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Sires. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you to our
witnesses for being here today, and thank you for your
patience. Due to this afternoon's votes, I want to be sure that
my colleagues can ask questions, so I will make just a few
remarks and submit my full statement for the record.
In March and April, my home State of New Jersey was among
the places hardest hit by the coronavirus pandemic. While I
worked to help secure personal protection equipment for our
hospitals and ensure the message of our public health experts
were reaching my constituents, as chairman of the subcommittee,
I also continued to watch closely what was happening in Latin
America and the Caribbean.
In the face of this pandemic, which has caused so much
suffering in this country and throughout our hemisphere, I have
been reminded of how interconnected we are. The pandemic has
demonstrated that the security of our neighbors has direct
implication for us.
My message today is that we are all in this together. For
that reason, I have deep concerns about President Trump's
response to the pandemic in Latin America and the Caribbean.
This pandemic has laid bare the cost of President Trump's
approach on going it alone in our foreign policy.
In April, President Trump froze funding for the Pan
American Health Organization, which was doing lifesaving work
in Venezuela. This is the same organization that had worked
closely with USAID a year earlier to reduce the measles crisis
in Venezuela by over 90 percent. The President decided that
making a political point was more important than saving lives.
I know that the cuts he imposed last year to our foreign
assistance programs in the Northern Triangle are still
undermining our ability to reduce poverty and food insecurity
in the region. Nonetheless, I have called this hearing because
we know that this pandemic is not going away anytime soon.
I am grateful to Ambassador Kozak and Mr. Hodges for
testifying. I know they are here representing thousands of
hardworking public servants in the State Department and USAID.
I want to take note of those individuals who worked to
repatriate thousands of Americans at the beginning of the
pandemic, including dozens of my constituents. We are deeply
grateful for your service.
My message to the Trump administration is to let us work
with you, Democrats and Republicans, to support this region in
stemming the spread of the coronavirus. I urge the
administration to reengage with Congress and return to the
normal practice of regularly briefing members and staff,
including on shared priorities like the crisis in Venezuela.
In the coming months, we must work shoulder to shoulder
with countries in the region to address both immediate health
impacts and secondary effects of the pandemic. I will always
advocate for stronger engagement in our hemisphere, and I look
forward to working with the administration and my colleagues to
ensure that Latin America and the Caribbean are prioritized in
our foreign assistance and diplomatic response.
Thank you, and I now turn to Ranking Member Rooney for his
opening statement.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Sires follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Rooney. Thank you, Chairman Sires, for organizing this
hearing on
[inaudible].
According to the John's Hopkins
[inaudible]--there are over nine--I cannot tell if it is
working or not. Is it working?
Mr. Sires. You are working. Get closer to the mic.
Mr. Rooney. Is it working okay now? I am technologically
challenged.
Mr. Sires. You and I both.
Mr. Rooney. There are over 9.1 million COVID cases in the
world and responsible for over 470,000 deaths. The Western
Hemisphere was impacted early. And as the cases began to arise
in the United States, we also saw the disease ravage Peru,
Ecuador, and Chile.
Today we are seeing alarming spikes in Mexico and Brazil.
Brazil alone has over 1.1 million cases. And as winter arrives
in South America, the region enters flu season which may make
things deteriorate further.
Many countries in Latin America and the Caribbean are
facing challenges in their response to the pandemic, which is
overburdening their fragile healthcare systems.
One example is Haiti, which is preparing for an increase in
COVID amid serious economic challenges, political crises,
rampant urban violence, and they still really have not ever
recovered from the earthquakes.
In addition to these challenges, the countries are
struggling to combat misinformation and a lack of public health
education on preventative measures. True to their authoritarian
nature, the regimes of Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua, are
using the pandemic to maintain their stranglehold on power,
manipulate their people, and further oppress their citizens.
The Castro regime in Cuba continues to exploit the pandemic
for political and financial gain by trafficking their doctors
as part of a misleading medical diplomacy. The Ortega regime
has refused outright to acknowledge the true impact of the
disease while reports have expressed burials under the cover of
darkness are exposing their horrible lack of transparency.
Last, the disease threatens to overwhelm Venezuela's
already depleted health system and exacerbate the country's
ongoing social and political instability. Sadly, the Maduro
regime continues to show that it cares more about its hold on
power than it does about the well-being of the Venezuelan
people.
Despite these challenges, the United States has stepped up
as the single largest donor to the international COVID
response, providing over $82 million in foreign assistance to
at least 24 countries in the Western Hemisphere to support
their pandemic response and recovery.
This health assistance includes support for water,
sanitation, and hygiene, risk communication and community
engagement, and infection prevention, control, and rapid
response. It targets assistance to vulnerable populations like
refugees, migrants, and their host communities.
Last, we have seen the United States provide ventilators to
countries in the region which we know are critical in saving
lives. U.S. leadership during this pandemic is critical.
The emergency assistance we are providing to our neighbors
in the Western Hemisphere demonstrates our commitment to our
region's well-being and builds upon our long-term investment in
our hemispheric prosperity.
As we continue to face immense challenges presented by the
pandemic, it is an opportunity for the international community
to come together, and I applaud the efforts made so far.
Nonetheless, there is still a lot of uncertainty surrounding
the virus and the future impact in the region.
The United States needs a strategy for how it will respond,
and not only to the immediate health impact of the pandemic but
also to the secondary impacts of the crisis on the late
elections in Bolivia, the growing influence of adversaries like
Iran in Venezuela, the exploitation of the crisis by
transnational criminal organizations--and, by the way, thank
you, Chairman, for holding that hearing on
[inaudible] Here a while back--and increased food
insecurity, as well as the continual malign influence of China.
I look forward to the testimoneys of our witnesses and the
many questions that will be raised.
And thank you, Chairman Sires, for hosting this important
hearing. I yield back.
Mr. Sires. Thank you very much, Ranking Member Rooney. Nice
to see you, even if it is on the screen.
Mr. Rooney. Right.
Mr. Sires. I will now introduce----
Mr. Rooney. Nice to see you.
Mr. Sires. I will now introduce the honorable Michael
Kozak, acting assistant secretary for the Western Hemisphere
affairs. As a charter member of the Career Executive Service,
Ambassador Kozak has held many senior positions, including as
acting assistant secretary in the Bureau of Democracy, Human
Rights, and Labor.
He has also held the role of senior director of the
National Security Council's staff and served as the United
States Ambassador to Belarus and the chief of missions in Cuba.
Ambassador Kozak, we welcome you and thank you for your
patience.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE MICHAEL G. KOZAK, ACTING ASSISTANT
SECRETARY, BUREAU OF WESTERN HEMISPHERE AFFAIRS, U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Mr. Kozak. Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Rooney, and
distinguished members of the subcommittee, it truly is an honor
to be asked to discuss our response to the pandemic in Latin
America and the Caribbean, and to see you again, sir. This is a
very welcome place to be.
Latin America is currently experiencing the highest number
of daily reported COVID-19 deaths in the world. Chile, Brazil,
Peru, and Mexico report the region's highest infection rates.
The pandemic has gravely affected all of the region's
economies.
The U.S. Government mounted a robust response to the COVID-
19 pandemic in the region. Our attention first turned to U.S.
citizens overseas. The Department mounted the largest
repatriation effort in its history.
As of June 16, the State Department repatriation task force
has facilitated the return of more than 64,000 U.S. citizens
from Latin America and the Caribbean. And I should say, that is
about two-thirds of what we have done worldwide has been in our
region.
The United States also stepped up to support the region
through foreign assistance. My colleague, Senior Deputy
Assistant Adminstrator for Latin America and the Caribbean,
Josh Hodges, will go into the details, but the State Department
and USAID have provided nearly $120 million in COVID-19
supplemental and humanitarian assistance response in Latin
America and the Caribbean.
Additionally using humanitarian assistance funding from the
U.S. Southern Command and the Department of Defense, security
cooperation officers implemented 183 COVID-19-related
humanitarian assistance projects in 26 countries. These initial
projects added up to more than $10 million in rapidly delivered
support in the form of PPE, cleaning equipment, hand sanitizer,
and field hospital tents.
Thanks to the support of the American manufacturing base,
we have delivered on President Trump's commitment to meet the
ventilator needs of many foreign governments once the projected
needs of the U.S. had been met. We have donated 950 ventilators
to countries in the region, and we are currently processing
2,000 more. To date, the recipient countries include Colombia,
Brazil, El Salvador, Honduras, and Peru.
The U.S. Government has also facilitated the commercial
procurement of U.S. manufactured ventilators by countries in
the region. The U.S. has supported flexible and rapid financing
packages to countries in the region through international
financial institutions to aid in their economic recovery.
With U.S. support, the IMF has deployed $40 billion to 19
countries in the region. We have also supported increased
assistance by the World Bank and the Inter-American Development
Bank.
In addition, the U.S. International Development Finance
Corporation recently launched its health and prosperity
initiative to mobilize private sector investment in support of
global health resilience.
The Department coordinated with other government agencies,
including DHS and HHS, to protect all persons in U.S. territory
from the COVID-19 pandemic. In this regard, sustained
cooperation with other countries on the removal of foreign
nationals is important.
Continuing removal flights during a COVID-19 pandemic has
been a challenge for some countries, but it has also helped
avoid increasing the numbers of immigrants in ICE detention
centers, and thus risking more exposure.
Out of more than 37,000 ICE removals to Latin America and
the Caribbean from March to mid-June, approximately 220
deportees tested positive after removal flights. And I should
mention that virtually all of those were for Guatemala for
reasons we still do not understand. But still, a very small
percentage.
The Western Hemisphere faces this severe health challenge,
I want to take this opportunity to discuss a topic of great
concern to the United States and to Secretary Pompeo, which you
raised, Mr. Chairman.
The administration has ongoing concerns about PAHO's
involvement in the Mais Medicos program in Brazil, in which
doctors who were supplied by the Cuban regime for a large
amount of money paid not to the doctors but to the regime.
On June 23, the PAHO executive committee approved
governance reform measures. It has also--which would avoid
something like this happening in the future without the
involvement and approval of the executive committee. It has
also committed to conduct an independent external evaluation of
the program. We are hopeful that soon the measures for the
independent evaluation will be in place and that that will
allow us to resume our assessed contributions to PAHO.
The combined and complex challenges of the COVID-19
pandemic present a unique opportunity for the United States in
confronting the crisis and its economic effects. Despite all
that has happened, the United States remains the partner of
choice for almost all countries in the region. We will work
together to mount a coordinated, cost-effective, ``Disciplined"
and comprehensive strategy to recover from the virus and
advance prosperity and opportunity in the region.
If we succeed, we will have gone a long way toward
cementing our strong, strategic partnerships in the region with
our closest neighbors. And we look forward to working with you
on that endeavor and look forward to your questions. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Kozak follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ambassador. Thank you.
We will then hear from Mr. Josh Hodges, Senior Deputy
Assistant Adminstrator in USAID's Bureau for Latin America and
the Caribbean. Prior to his current position, Mr. Hodges was a
policy director in the National Security Council's Western
Hemisphere Affairs directorate.
He served previously as a national security policy advisor
on the Senate Judiciary Committee, and military legislative
assistant designee to the Senate Armed Services Committee, as
well as legislative director in the House of Representatives.
Mr. Hodges, thank you for joining us today, and thank you
for your patience.
STATEMENT OF MR. JOSH HODGES. SENIOR DEPUTY ASSISTANT
ADMINISTRATOR, BUREAU FOR LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN,
UNITED STATES AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
Mr. Hodges. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Rooney, members of the
subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to testify today.
I am grateful for the committee's support of the work of
USAID particularly as we address the effects of COVID across
Latin America and the Caribbean. We are committed to the
immediate priority of helping our hemispheric neighbors protect
themselves and combat the pandemic and its long-term effects.
I want to acknowledge the leadership of President Trump,
Vice President Pence, Secretary Pompeo, and Acting
Administrator John Barsa, as well as our talented teams around
the world. I want to also thank Congress and the American
people for the critical resources provided to respond to this
global crisis.
USAID recognizes that to protect our national security
priorities and develop efforts in the region we must begin to
look to the future, adapt our processes and structures
accordingly, and act. USAID is well positioned to manage a
robust and growing response to the threat of COVID.
Since March, USAID alone has provided more than $105
million to respond to COVID-19, in addition to State Department
funds. However, the nature of COVID-19 pandemic, as outlined by
the chairman and ranking member, is compounding ongoing
challenges including those that stem from the threat of Chinese
exploitation in a region overburdened by the Venezuelan
humanitarian crisis.
These challenges add to the complexity of the COVID
pandemic and our response to it. We are deeply concerned about
shortages of food and water estimated to increase as a result
of COVID.
We have seen how malign external actors, such as the
Communist Party of China, are extending alleged assistance that
comes with strings attached that do not have the best interest
of the region in mind.
As the region suffers an unprecedented economic slowdown,
the forecast suggests it could suffer the world's worst
increase in joblessness. USAID, as part of the interagency's
global All of America response to COVID, is rising to the
challenge to stand with our international partners. We are
addressing the effects of the pandemic in over 30 countries in
Latin America and the Caribbean.
For example, we are strengthening healthcare and providing
expert technical assistance, training, capacity building, and
lifesaving diagnostics and treatment. We are improving clinical
care, minimizing the risk of onward transmissions, and helping
to prevent and control infections.
In addition, we are helping ministries of health provide
reliable, verifiable information about how the public can
protect themselves and each other. We are sending ventilators
to care for the most critically ill patients.
USAID has delivered 950 lifesaving, high-quality American-
made ventilators to Brazil, Honduras, Peru, El Salvador, and
Colombia as of this morning. In addition, we have ongoing
shipments to other countries in the region, as well.
But COVID is not simply a health crisis, and our response
cannot just be a health response. We have seen that when we do
not address poor governance and conflict we wipe out
investments in health, education, and other basic social
services.
We are leveraging our development programming to complement
our investments in global health. We are pivoting programs and
dedicating resources to mitigate the nonhealth effects of COVID
by incentivizing the private sector to mitigate the nonhealth
effects of COVID on rural and urban populations. We are
addressing critical needs in social protection, education,
water, sanitation, and food security, as well as creating jobs
and increasing access to credit, as the Ambassador outlined.
We are also analyzing and planning for the medium and long-
term effects of COVID. No other nation can match our
unparalleled generosity, our open, collaborative approach, or
our long-term commitment to helping countries on their Journey
to Self-Reliance.
We are also facing the challenge of malign external
influence, particularly by the Chinese Communist Party, Iran,
and others. Beijing has intervened in sovereign nations'
internal affairs to engineer consent for its policies attaching
strings to our neighbors everyday well-being.
Chinese authorities have attempted to extend their
influence over discourse and behavior around the world,
including in Latin America and the Caribbean. This means the
United States must tell our story effectively and accurately,
and identify areas to engage with local communities in their
own language.
Our line of resources for the challenges ahead including in
areas of health, governance, energy and infrastructure,
investment, digital technology, and others. The COVID situation
in Latin America and the Caribbean remains dangerous, as has
been outlined, and is likely to exacerbate underlying
conditions and ongoing crisis.
This is the right thing to do. We will strengthen the
regional supply chain, and it is our own domestic national
security and prosperity that is also being taken into
consideration.
I want to thank the committee again, and I look forward to
questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Hodges follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Sires. Thank you for your testimony.
I will now recognize members for 5 minutes each. And
pursuant to House Rules, all time yield is for the purpose of
questioning our witnesses.
As a reminder to members joining virtually, please turn on
your video function so I may not only see you but also
recognize you as we move into questions.
Because of the virtual format of this hearing, I will
recognize members by committee seniority and alternating
between Democrats and Republicans. If you miss your turn,
please let our staff know and we will circle back to you. If
you seek recognition, you must unmute your microphone and
address the chair verbally.
I will start by recognizing myself. The World Health
Organization declared on June 1 that Latin America is the new
epicenter of the pandemic. Brazil has the second highest number
of cases in the world, and Peru, Chile, and Mexico are not far
behind. Yet, less than 10 percent of our foreign assistance for
coronavirus response is being provided for Latin America and
the Caribbean.
And the question is, with Latin America accounting for half
of the daily deaths around the world, do you believe that the
region is being adequately prioritized with only 10 percent of
our assistance is being directed there?
Josh?
Mr. Hodges. Yes, sir. I would say that the region is being
adequately prioritized. And just to put this into context, in
addition to the $105 million, we have redirected additional
funds from USAID's ongoing programs to account for the COVID-19
realities that are in place.
And with those two figures included, I believe that it
doubles the amount of COVID-related funding going to the
region. And including, sort of taking a step back from the
funding specifically, sir, with these lifesaving ventilators
that we are providing to the region, in a global context there
are more ventilators being provided to Latin America and the
Caribbean than to anywhere else globally. And so, yes, I do
believe that we are adequately prioritizing the region.
Mr. Sires. How many ventilators you say were provided?
Mr. Hodges. I am sorry, sir?
Mr. Sires. How many ventilators you say were provided?
Mr. Hodges. As of today, as I said earlier, we are--by the
end of the week there will be 1,000 there, and that is more
than has been delivered globally.
Mr. Sires. Is that--how many--to all the countries in the
region?
Mr. Hodges. Yes, sir, to date.
Mr. Sires. As of today?
Mr. Hodges. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sires. Ambassador, how is the U.S. assisting countries
like Brazil, where the outbreak is severe, while President
Bolsonaro has refused to take the pandemic seriously?
Mr. Kozak. Well, sir, let me say first that we have been
collaborating with Brazil. I think they have received well over
$9 million just in COVID-19-related response.
Brazil is a little bit like the United States in terms of
having portions of the country where the virus has taken hold
pretty strongly, particularly in the north and northeast. And
then there are other parts where it has actually not been that
strong.
But also like the United States, the response in Brazil is
largely being governed at the local and provincial or state
level, so that the type of response that has been adopted in
different parts of Brazil is somewhat different, as is the case
here.
And I should mention, just as you look at this region wide,
you know, nobody has got the magic formula yet for dealing with
this disease, so we are being very respectful of the sovereign
decisions of different governments. Some people--sometimes the
same people will criticize somebody for being too harsh in
applying measures and then turn around and criticize them for
being too lax.
We have tried not to engage in that because, you know, we
do not have the secret sauce ourselves. The one place we have
been critical though is countries that are not being serious
about reporting and sharing data and being transparent.
And that is when I talked about how some of the highest
figures of reported infection are in our region, that is true,
but that is not necessarily because that is where the highest
infection is. It is because some countries are massively
underreporting and not being taken to task for that, including
in our region, some that you mentioned and Mr. Rooney
mentioned.
But anyway, the upshot is we have been working
collaboratively with Brazil. We have had to, at different
times, put measures in effect. We have barred travel from
Brazil, routine travel from Brazil. They have banned travel
from the United States simply to avoid spreading the disease.
That is not--you know, it was not done in the spirit of
punitiveness or something. It was a cooperative effort to
reduce it.
And I think probably the proof of how things are going in
Brazil, we have got something on the order of 275,000 United
States citizens who live in Brazil, routinely live there. We
were initially thinking, boy, we are going to get a flood when
we--when they started restricting travel.
We have seen very few people leaving, and that is because
so far the health systems in Brazil are keeping up with the
pandemic. I mean, in some areas it is tough. Their ICUs are
getting up 75, 80 percent capacity. But in other parts it is,
you know, going along in an okay way, and people are not voting
with their feet by leaving.
So I think that is a sign that, you know, Brazil, while it
has got a tough, tough problem, there is no two ways about it,
is dealing with it in different ways depending on the part of
the country. And, you know, we are in it together and we will
try to come through it together in full collaboration with
them.
Mr. Sires. I see that the Supreme Court ordered the
President to wear a mask. We should have that here.
Mr. Kozak. Well, courts have different authorities in
different countries, sir.
Mr. Sires. I will now recognize Ranking Member Mr. Rooney
for questioning.
Mr. Rooney. Chairman, I agree with you about the mask
thing. I think lead by example is what leadership is all about.
We have problems--let me read my note here.
First of all, I would like to ask Mr. Hodges, what are we
doing to deal with China's actions in Latin America? I do not
trust China a bit, and they will exploit this to the
[inaudible], and so I would like to know what we are doing
to proactively deal with them and to shore up Taiwan's presence
in Latin America.
Mr. Hodges. Thank you, sir. It is a very pertinent
question. And we are actively, here at USAID, working with our
State counterparts as well as the rest of the interagency
taking this issue of China in the region very seriously.
We have active discussions throughout the region on the
reality of why China is approaching with these deals that they
come to different countries with, as well as just exposing the
truth and the nature of some of those and the debt traps that
are behind them, as well as highlighting areas--in some cases,
it is as simple as showing them what is happening in other
areas of the world, so the heads of State can see that China
does not have the region's best interest at heart.
In other cases we are working with civil society
organizations, we are working on a variety of different fronts
to really just expose the truth behind the Chinese model. And
it really is a question of do you want long-term, sustainable
growth, or do you want something that is going to put your
country in debt and be at the mercy of the Chinese?
They are also looking to expand very aggressively with
digital technology in the region, and I would be happy to have
folks come brief you and your staff on this more thoroughly.
But they are aggressively trying to get their technology into
the region so that they can sort of push more repressive
efforts, as well as just further sort of get their talons into
the region.
Mr. Rooney. Are we doing anything to advance recognition of
Taiwan? I know we have had a lot of countries abandon Taiwan in
the last 10 years.
Mr. Hodges. Sir, this is more in the State Department's
lane, so I will hand it over to Ambassador Kozak, but this is--
--
Mr. Rooney. Sure.
Mr. Hodges. You are absolutely right, and this is an issue
that USAID--I talk regularly with Taiwanese officials.
Mr. Kozak. Yes. Thank you.
Mr. Rooney. Ambassador.
Mr. Kozak. Nine of the 15 countries that recognize Taiwan
are in Latin America and the Caribbean, and we are doing
everything we can to keep it that way.
I think Taiwan has done a good job. It has the same
advantage we do in competing with China, which is, by and
large, countries in the region share our values: They are for
human rights; they are for democracy; they are for free-market
competition. And China is the antithesis of all of those
things.
So we have encouraged Taiwan to be as forward-leaning as
possible on it. In the context of the current health pandemic,
Taiwan actually had some really good best practices and is
exporting them in the region.
And I would say more broadly, as my colleague was just
saying about China's influence in the region, people are
starting to catch on, you know. It only takes so many times
when you realize that China has just loaned some money to your
predecessor in government and now all your oil production for
the next 20 years is mortgaged to China, or that there was some
hidden fine print and that they are going to take over your
major port.
So we are telling the countries, sure, trade with China. We
trade with China. But do it on your 21st century transparent
terms. Don't do it on their 19th century imperialist terms. And
be cognizant of the security risks and so on.
My deputy has been a real champion on this and has gone
around and done not only bilateral diplomacy but public
diplomacy throughout the region to try to bring this out, and I
think we have made a real dent. We have seen national
governments throughout the region really shying away from these
kinds of investments by China that turn into debt traps and so
on.
And what we are seeing is China is now trying to target
like the local and state-level officials because they think
they can still have fun there, and we are trying to counter it
at that level as well.
With the current health crisis, yes, China at the outset
was able to offer all kinds of PPE and so on because, turns
out, supply chains were such that an awful lot of that was
being manufactured in China, and it took us a bit of time to
get back in the game.
But I would say, when you go around the region, sure,
people will take a face mask from China if that is what is
available, but that does not mean that they think China is
helping on this. They all know the figures that China has put
out on its own experience are completely ridiculous and false.
They know that China has not provided information to not
only the World Health Organization but any responsible
international organizations. They have not provided samples of
the early versions of this. They suppressed information that
would have likely reduced the spread and the virulence of all
of this.
So nobody is very happy with China. Yes, they will take
their face masks and their hand sanitizer, but they are not
going to decide that all is forgiven and that China is the
champion on this. So----
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ambassador.
Mr. Kozak [continuing]. We will keep working it. We are
working it hard. We have got a strategy. We are going to
continue to flog it. But we are more than holding our own, I
would say.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ambassador.
I will now recognize Greg Meeks for 5 minutes.
Mr. Meeks. Hello. Can you hear me?
Mr. Sires. I can see you too.
Mr. Meeks. So you can see me and hear me. Good deal.
So let me ask this question. You know, on May 20, I wrote
an op-ed titled, ``A Prescriptive Path forward for Saving
Struggling Countries and Economies.''
And within that piece, I advocated for globally coordinated
stimulus package that provides immediate and much-needed aid
for countries with the least developed healthcare systems, and
urgent stopgap measures to halt the hemorrhaging and emerging
markets, and a push for the private sector to reinvest in these
developing nations, and more sustainably this time, and
rebuilding post-COVID-19 in a way that improves prevention
capacities and resilience and risk readiness.
So I am going to say to the deputy assistant administrator,
I am heartened to see that USAID is already thinking over the
horizon and strategizing about assistance in a post-COVID-19
world.
What additional assistance is planned in future fiscal
years to ensure our allies and neighbors have ample support as
they battle COVID within their borders? And are current U.S.
funding levels sufficient given the enormity of the damage
inflicted by COVID?
Mr. Hodges. Thank you very much for the question, sir. And
I am very happy to be talking about this because it is
critical, ongoing work.
To the immediate question of future funding, there are
ongoing internal deliberative conversations, so I cannot get
into specific amounts, but I can tell you USAID and the State
Department have had a number of conversations to this end.
USAID is actively working to look over the horizon. We
recognize that there is a sense of urgency. We have to address
COVID today but also, at the same time, be working to get ahead
of it and not just weeks ahead of it, and to curb the current
trend in the region but to actually have longstanding,
sustainable development pathways.
And to do that we have both LAC and agency-wide engaged in
an Over-the-Horizon review, and we are meeting regularly to
talk about this, to look at the lessons we are learning
everyday, and just recognizing that we must prepare for lasting
changes in order for the development landscape to stay ahead of
this, to improve the region so that we come out of this
stronger with a stronger supply chain to benefit the United
States, but also just to ensure that Journey to Self-Reliance.
And so we are--to the final question about what we need to
do differently, we are actively looking at our current programs
and operations to see what we need to do differently. And I
would very much like to followup with you on that conversation
as this conversation evolves.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you.
Let me ask, and many of you know that I have been
intricately involved in Colombia, particularly with the plight
of African Colombians and the indo populations. I have heard
repeatedly from those leaders in Choco and the Pacific region
that economic and political conditions in the country continue
to progress slowly despite the peace plan implementation.
In fact, there has been a report that was done by
University of Notre Dame Kroc Institute for International Peace
Studies, which talks about how COVID is devastating to them. I
suspect that similar trends are occurring throughout the
region.
So my question again is, are African Colombians and
indigenous populations in Colombia seeing regressions in
economic and political power? And is COVID further compounding
the eroding political and economic conditions for African
Colombians and indigenous populations region wide?
And the last, USAID and State Department, you know, will
you move forward with the substantive COVID response plans, and
will all agencies consider the fact that systemic disparities
which existed before COVID?
Mr. Kozak. Thanks for the question, Mr. Meeks. And you are
absolutely right that the effect of this on indigenous and
marginalized populations has been even worse than on the
population at large throughout the region. That is true in our
country as well. When you start from a lower base, you have
less margin for error. So we are quite cognizant of that.
We have had programs for years that have been focused on
trying to improve the situation of those populations. I think,
as we look, as my colleague was saying, as we try to retool our
existing programs, that is part of what we will try to do is to
see if we can bring it up.
But what I wanted to note on this problem overall is that
we are building on a solid base here. We have been very
involved and active for decades in this region. That is why we
still are the partner of choice. And we have been--even before
the COVID-19 outbreak we have been looking at ways to say how
do we maximize the benefit of what we have been trying to do in
the development area.
Some of our programs are absolutely critical and I think
are effective in the governance area, in trying to build
stronger civil society and so on. But what a lot of these
countries still suffer from is, you know, corruption, lack of
transparency, lack of rule of law in their legal systems and so
on.
And not only is that bad in and of itself but it
discourages investment, and private investment is going to
produce much more development than anything that we or other
governments can do to bring that about.
So this is why we had started the initiative of America
Crece that Congress did through BUILD Act for the DFC. And we
see a real opportunity there--we saw it before the COVID-19
crisis--to really start bringing investment into the poorest
areas of these countries, you know, build out infrastructure,
build out energy so that those parts of the countries can start
developing.
Yes, it will have to be tweaked and adjusted because the
COVID-19 crisis has made us start from a lower baseline than we
might otherwise have, but I think the fundamentals were in
place ahead of time, and we can take advantage of those and
really make a difference in the aftermath of this pandemic.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ambassador.
Chris Smith? I will now recognize Chris Smith.
I will now recognize Ted Yoho for 5 minutes.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I appreciate our witnesses being there, and the input
has been great.
I want to just commend USAID for the work you guys are
doing, along with the DFC. I talked to Adam Boehler, and he
said he was tasked at getting 150,000 respirators from the
United States domestically and to distribute them. And from
what I understand, El Salvador had 50 respirators in their
whole country, 50 respirators. We have given them over 500, the
way I understand it. And, you know, so the work you guys are
doing are good. It is good. We just need to keep doing that.
The comment I want to get or the response I want to get
from you is when we go into this, and we are in the middle of a
pandemic, we are going to be looking at food shortages before
long--I mean, we already have that now, but with the collapsed
economies around the world.
What we have seen in our country with our farmers in my
State having to plow up their fields because there are no
markets, there is going to be a food shortage that I do not
think we have seen on this level in a very long time. And I
would like to get your thoughts on that of what we are doing
now to counter that.
And then when we go in there with aid, and, Ambassador
Kozak, I heard you and I appreciate it, and I really appreciate
the sentiment that our aid goes to good governance, rule of
law, anti-corruption, anti-narcotics, and we have been doing
that for probably 20 years, but we do not have it right.
And so what happens is China is going to come in there,
they do not care about rule of law, they do not care about
those things that we try to do that really we know and those
countries know is best for them, but China is going to say,
here is your money. And as Mr. Hodges brought out, here is your
5G network. And when you have an authoritarian leader in a
country that is getting its pockets lined with cash from China
they are going to become more authoritarian and line up with
China.
And I just want to hear what your response is, how we can
do something better or different, and then just briefly touch
on Haiti. You know, Haiti has gone through the struggles
probably worse than most countries I have ever seen, especially
in the Western Hemisphere. Yet, today in the 21st century, less
than 20 percent of the people in Haiti have potable water. You
cannot fight a pandemic if you do not have potable water.
And one last thing--I am sorry to do this--is I have
noticed they have cut back in Central and Latin America on the
measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine. There is very strong
evidence that says the rubella component of the MMR vaccine is
giving some cross protection with COVID-19.
And the research is out there. We will be happy to send it
to you. And if there is anything that we could do to help
stimulate any kind of response against the COVID-19 until there
is a tangible, safe, effective vaccine, I would have you look
at this. We have shared this with the administration, CDC, and
all that.
So I have thrown you a lot, and if you want to respond to
any of that, I would appreciate it.
Mr. Hodges. Yes, sir. I will take a couple of those
questions first.
So, yes, in El Salvador, you are correct, sir. Thanks to
the generosity of the American people and what we have done
there to date, the U.S. Government donated ventilators that
supported a 200 percent increase in El Salvador's ICU capacity.
And obviously, there is a long way to go to getting ahead of
this, but we know the people there are incredibly appreciative.
Thanks to these ventilators, they have gone up from 87 ICU
beds pre-COVID to 174 ICU beds, and that is according to the
Salvadoran Ministry of Health. And so we are continuing to move
forward on lifesaving needs throughout the region, and very,
very proud of the work that our teams are doing. And it is
tireless work, but very, very happy to see things continue to
move.
Related to the agriculture industry question that you
raised, I will touch on that just very briefly. We have engaged
USAID for our part, and I do not want to take too much of the
time from the Ambassador here, but we have engaged with the
Department of Commerce to make sure that our programs we are
funding and putting in place related to COVID keep things
moving in the region and connect back here, so that everything
is working together in a strategic way.
But with that, I will--oh, yes, on vaccines, we continue to
work on a vaccine through GAVI. And USAID already invests--
playing a key role in research and development and future
production for availability of future vaccines.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Mr. Kozak. And I might add to that on the questions about
China and Haiti. Look, on China, I mentioned the good
governance and so on. That is a necessary but not sufficient
component of development. And we have seen that in a number of
countries where we have run good programs on that front but we
have not made a dent in the development of those countries, and
we think that is in part because the climate for investment
remains so poor.
But I will give you some examples that I think people are
seeing around the region. Costa Rica had the Chinese come in
and build a sports stadium in the capital. Great. Looks nice.
They have a soccer stadium. The thing has all kinds of
structural defects. They were telling me they cannot--there is
no instruction book. Everything is in Chinese, So the
electrical workers and so on cannot figure out the wiring
diagrams, and it is not turning out to be that good a deal for
them.
On the other hand, Panama, right next door, through U.S.
investment, they have 1.5 billion new liquified natural gas
terminal there and become the hub for the region. That is going
to produce real economic growth throughout the region, and it
is a real investment. It is not a bubble.
El Salvador was telling us that Chinese came in and they
had a deal where they were going to help them develop a port,
but when the Salvadoreans started looking at the fine print the
Chinese were in a position where they could call the loan, you
know, a couple years after it was made and then----
Mr. Yoho. Right.
Mr. Kozak [continuing]. Take over the port.
And in addition, they found that China was going around and
was trying to buy up 73 percent of the coastline of El
Salvador. So they said, we almost became prisoners of the
Chinese Communist Party in our own country. So this is the kind
of stuff we are trying to push out there.
Even if you are a democratically elected leader with
authoritarian tendencies, if you have got independent
parliament, you have got independent journalists and so on
watching this, it is going to be hard to get away with that
kind of an investment.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ambassador.
I now recognize----
Mr. Yoho. Thank you.
Mr. Sires [continuing]. Joaquin Castro.
Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairman.
And thank you, witnesses, for your testimony today.
It is our understanding that Mexican President Lopez
Obrador will be visiting Washington, DC. to meet with President
Trump soon to discuss USMCA. However, Canada's Prime Minister
Justin Trudeau is not scheduled to meet with them.
Given the rising number of cases of COVID in Mexico, which
you have described, and the United States, which we are all
experiencing, do you believe it is wise for the Presidents to
meet during a global pandemic that is affecting their countries
with some of the greatest number of cases?
Mr. Kozak. Thank you for the question, Mr. Castro. Well,
today is the entry into force of USMCA, so it is a very
important day. We think that, you know--talk about developing
economies in the region. This is really going to increase the
powerhouse of the three countries in North America, so it is
something very worth noting and trying to advance
implementation of.
In terms of response to the virus, U.S., Canada, and Mexico
have worked very, very closely together. We have had
coordination at the head of government level, but we have had
like weekly coordination, my colleague, Deputy Secretary
Biegun, has worked with his counterparts.
So there has been--when you look at like border
restrictions on U.S., Canada, Mexico, those have all been
coordinated amongst the three countries. So we have tried to
find the right balance between keeping commerce going amongst
the countries and at the same time cutting back on nonessential
travel so as to----
Mr. Castro. Secretary Kozak, let me ask you, do you have
any idea why Prime Minister Trudeau was not invited if this is
to celebrate USMCA?
Mr. Kozak. I do not--I have not seen the announcement the
White House has put out yet, but there has been a desire for
some time for a bilateral agreement between the Mexican
President and our President. It will be the Mexican President
Lopez Obrador's first trip abroad as President of Mexico.
You know, we have lots of contact with Canada. I would stay
tuned on that. We are in daily touch and very high-level touch
with Canada on a whole range of issues, including trade issues.
So I would not draw conclusions that--because a week after at
USMCA comes in effect the two Presidents are meeting that that
is somehow an exclusion of Canada.
Mr. Castro. Okay. Let me ask you all, during the
coronavirus pandemic, we have seen several Latin America
governments take on authoritarian physicians and spread false
information to their own people. For example, El Salvador's
government has detained their citizens for violating their
stay-at-home order and forcing them to stay in quarantine
centers.
On the other hand, President Bolsonaro of Brazil continues
to downplay the statistics and danger of the virus, putting
Brazilians in danger. What actions has the State Department and
USAID taken to discourage these displays of antidemocratic rule
and the spread of misinformation?
Mr. Kozak. Well, as I mentioned before, Mr. Castro, we have
tried to be a little bit cautious about telling other countries
how to deal with the pandemic. We have not found the magic
formula yet for getting the right balance between, you know,
stay-at-home orders and recovering the economy.
As I mentioned with Brazil, it is very much like our
country, a Federal arrangement where the power tends to be
vested in local and State authorities anyway, and you see
different reactions all around Brazil and different results.
In El Salvador, you know, we have seen some steps there
that were pretty tough but we have seen those in cities in the
United States as well. So we have not wanted to, you know, put
on our bossy pants about what you should be doing about COVID-
19.
At the same time, we do defend, you know, people's right to
express themselves and that kind of thing and have said so when
that has been affected in other countries.
Where we have drawn the line though is there is some
countries where what they are reporting is simply--we know that
they are cooking the books in terms of reporting on the
disease, not only to their own people but to regional and world
health authorities, and that compounds the problem.
Mr. Castro. Thank you.
Mr. Kozak. So there we have been a little more
prescriptive.
Mr. Castro. I yield back, Chair.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
John Curtis? Is he on?
Ken Buck.
Michael Guest.
Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Gentlemen, I want to thank you both for being here today.
Mr. Hodges, I had the opportunity last week to speak with
Administrator Barsa on some of the same topics that we are
discussing here today. And I wanted to ask you, Mr. Hodges, you
say on page three of your written testimony there on the top
paragraph, you talk about challenges that add to the complexity
of COVID.
Of course, we talk about the shortages of food and water.
We talk about the uptick of violence against women and
minorities. But then the third thing in that paragraph, and you
touched on this briefly earlier, is external actors as the
Communist Party of China are using other's suffering as an
excuse to extend assistance--and you put ``assistance'' in
parentheses--that comes with unsustainable debt and other
strings that only pull countries further away from the goal of
self-reliance.
And could you expand on that just briefly and give some
specific examples of what China is doing in the line of the
predatory assistance in response to COVID and how they are
using this along with what they have been using for some period
of time, their Belt and Road Initiative, to gain influence in
Latin America and South America?
Mr. Hodges. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question.
So for one specific example, in 2017 alone, China extended
more than $6.8 billion in non-concessional loans to the LAC
region. And as we know, Chinese loans come with strings
attached that do not allow countries to progress, as in the
testimony, on this Journey to Self-Reliance.
So what we see is China--and we see this globally really is
that China comes in. They come, as the Ambassador outlined
earlier, in El Salvador. They try sort of a myriad of different
approaches to take control of different--whether it is ports,
whether it is just critical infrastructure so that they are the
ones that own those resources that should belong to the--in
this case the El Salvadorean people, but the region, basically
to the region, and instead China winds up being the de facto
owner of those just due to the balance of debt.
And I would be happy to followup with you and your staff
with some more concrete examples of that, but that is the big
scope of it, sir. They really provide what looks like a good
deal to these countries that are in need of investment, but
when you really dig down into the details of it, it winds up
putting the country at a disadvantage in the long term.
And just to put this into context, in 2017, U.S. official
development assistance was nearly $2 billion to the region
while China's was around $400 million. And that U.S. figure
does not include FDI or U.S. remittances back to the region.
And if you combine all that together, the amount that the
United States and the people of the United States and people
who come here from other countries from the region provide back
to the region for economic benefit dwarfs what China is
offering to them. And our offer comes with the good-faith
promise that we want you to succeed, we want a strong region,
we want a prosperous region.
Mr. Guest. And is Congress providing you and your agency
with the tools you need to counteract what China is doing in
that region as it relates to assistance to developing
countries?
Mr. Hodges. Sir, I would defer to Ambassador Kozak on this
sort of more diplomacy-focused question. But USAID appreciates
everything Congress has been providing us to date. And as I
said earlier, as we look over the horizon on this, I would
welcome the opportunity to come back and speak with you on
this.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Ambassador, is Congress providing you the
tools that you need to combat what we are seeing China's
attempt to grow their influence in these countries?
Mr. Kozak. Yes, Congressman. I would say Congress is, but
with the notion that we are not going to compete with China
sort of dollar for dollar on their terms, because we are not
going to do rotten loans and the kind of thing that my
colleague was just describing. So we are trying to put it in
other areas.
I think some of the tools Congress has given us recently,
particularly the DFC, is a really giant leap forward. And there
are some complications in it that it is limited, we cannot use
it in all the countries in the region because of income level
restrictions and that kind of thing, but those kinds of efforts
are really huge. Anything that allows us to leverage private
investment because, you know, if we can spend $100 million of
taxpayer money and get $1 billion dollars of private
investment, that is a whole lot bigger impact than just the
$100 million. And it really is a force multiplier in dealing
with China where we really do already outstrip them.
But the other part has been public diplomacy efforts, and I
think we have been able to do that effectively. We might be
able to use some help from Congress just as Members travel and
so on, reminding everybody what you get into if you go down the
wrong path with China.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ambassador. I do not think too many
people are going to be traveling in the next 6 months.
We have votes. We are going to try to keep this within the
time.
Adriano Espaillat is recognized for 5 minutes.
Dean Phillips is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and to our two
witnesses.
You know, earlier this month, the prominent Mexican labor
lawyer Susana Prieto was arrested on trumped up charges and
subsequently denied bail, in retaliation for her labor
advocacy, which comes on the eve of the implementation of the
USMCA, in which ensuring Mexican labor standards is clearly a
vital component. When asked about Ms. Prieto's arrest in a Ways
and Means Committee hearing, U.S. Trade Representative
Lighthizer shared that he believed that Prieto's arrest was a
bad indicator, quote, ``bad indicator,'' of Mexico's commitment
to labor reform.
As Mexican President Obrador is set to visit Washington of
course this month, I urge President Trump and Secretary Pompeo
to raise that matter and stress its importance to the United
States.
My first question is directed to you, Mr. Ambassador. I
trust that you believe that heads of State should respect the
separation of powers and the constitutional roles of each
branch of government. Is that a fair statement?
Mr. Kozak. Yes, sir.
Mr. Phillips. I am glad to hear that. So I have a series of
questions about El Salvador where President Bukele continues to
undermine democratic institutions. Do you believe it was
appropriate for him to send El Salvador's armed forces to the
national assembly after lawmakers refused to give him the
funding that he had asked for?
Mr. Kozak. No, and we said so at the time.
Mr. Phillips. I presume it is not the right approach to
civil military relations, of course.
My second question is relative again to the national
assembly, which passed legislation twice that did not give the
President the authority that he wanted. Both times, President
Bukele put in place executive orders undermining the assembly
and granting himself those powers. Also, both times the
country's constitutional court ruled that President Bukele was
in violation of the Constitution. Most egregiously, both times
the President went ahead with his executive orders anyway.
I presume you feel it was not appropriate for the President
to disregard the will of the national assembly and the
Constitutional court. Is that fair?
Mr. Kozak. Not to--yes, not to disregard the authorities of
the court. But I would say this part of the dispute within El
Salvador, there is an argument over what powers the President
has constitutionally and in an emergency, whether he needs
enabling legislation from the legislature or not. The three
branches are having a robust argument about that. We have tried
to urge them all to be respectful of each other and to try to
come to some accommodation on a practical way forward, but it
is on the theoretical or constitutional level of who has the
inherent authority to do one thing or another and what
limitations it is subject to. You know, we are trying to see
them do an orderly good-faith process, but it is a little bit
of a political question doctrine too.
So we have been reluctant to jump into the middle of the
legal debate, as distinct from when you bring troops into a
legislature, that is not a legal debate anymore. And in that
case, I must say the President ended up deferring to the court
that he should not have done that.
Mr. Phillips. Okay, yes. Mr. Ambassador, you might recall,
in an April 24 press briefing you were asked about President
Bukele's actions on democratic actions. Your comment was,
quote, ``He's got extremely high popularity ratings so far for
his handling of the crisis,'' end quote. I trust you do not
believe that his popularity should make him exempt from
respecting democratic norms. Is it that fair to say?
Mr. Kozak. That is correct. And that was not the intent of
my answer. I think that was a longer answer. And one of the
other questions had been whether the measures he was taking
were too draconian. And I was pointing to the approval ratings
of the population for the majors to say apparently they did not
find them to be draconian, but that certainly would not be an
excuse or a reason for violating a constitutional separation of
powers.
Mr. Phillips. I appreciate that. And, last and relative to
El Salvador, while the Trump administration, you know, has been
vocal about the disastrous public health responses in both
Venezuela and Nicaragua, it has really been silent about power
grabs in El Salvador and Bolivia. So do you believe that the
State Department's inconsistency in calling out these
governments undermines our interests by feeding into the
perception at least that our criticisms on human rights grounds
are informed by ideology rather than democratic principles?
Mr. Kozak. Sir, I believe our criticisms with respect to
both Venezuela and Nicaragua have been a systematic effort to
cover up what is going on on the medical front, reporting false
information, not only to their own populations, but to medical
authorities and so on. That is distinct from the legal issues
of whether one branch of government has a certain amount of
authority over it or not. This is kind of unprecedented areas.
But it is--that is why I was saying we have been critical
of countries that are falsifying data, basically. We have been
much more willing to cut some slack to countries that are
struggling to get it right on what is the right balance between
shutdowns and opening up your economy and that kind of thing.
It is the same kind of issues that we are struggling with at
home, and we do not want to try to usurp that decision.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ambassador.
Andy Levin.
Mr. Phillips. Yes, my time is up. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. The chair recognizes Andy Levin.
Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate
you holding this hearing.
Ambassador Kozak, you have a long career of service focused
on the Western Hemisphere and human rights. So I know you are
aware of the human rights abuses that the Haitian people have
endured. I am committed as a Member of Congress and a long-time
human rights defender, including in Haiti, to fight for Haitian
human rights. And I am extremely worried that this
administration's policies have done the opposite, especially
when it comes to COVID.
The State Department issued a do-not-travel advisory for
Haiti on March 5. That is the highest level travel advisory a
State can issue, and this was weeks before the Department put
out a global travel advisory because of COVID. The Haiti
advisory warns emergency response, including ambulance service,
is limited or nonexistent, that is a quote. To me, that says
that the Department understood that Haiti's healthcare
infrastructure was incredibly weak. Yet just 1 month later, on
April 7, our country began to deport Haitians, despite the
pandemic and the knowledge that Haiti was not equipped to
contain it. And the U.S. has continued these deportations even
after a number of Haitians arrived in Haiti, were tested, and
were positive for COVID.
So my first question is this. We know COVID has devastated
even the best healthcare systems. We know Haiti cannot handle
it. We know how quickly this virus jumps borders. So even if we
control the virus in the United States, if it takes hold in
Haiti, our whole region remains at risk. Are you confident,
sir, that Haiti can respond possibly to a sizable outbreak of
COVID?
Mr. Kozak. Well, on the latter point, there is no doubt--
your premise to your question is quite right--that the Haitian
infrastructure in this area is very weak, as it is in many
areas of their society and culture.
Mr. Levin. Okay. Yes, in many countries. And how many
people has the United States deported to Haiti who have tested
positive for COVID?
Mr. Kozak. It has been a handful. Let me mention, though,
the policy on that so that there is some understanding of why
we are doing it and how we are doing it. And I have had this
conversation with all of the most senior officials in the
Haitian Government as well.
The U.S. has continued, as I said in my testimony,
removals--people with final orders of removal from the United
States because we did not want to start piling--having people
pile up in ICE detention facilities once they have got their
final orders of removal. If you do that, you are creating a
congregate setting in which the spread of disease is at some
risk. So the calculation has been that it is much better for
people to be home with their families----
Mr. Levin. Sir, excuse me, I have limited time, and I am
going to reclaim my time. Sir, I have limited time; I want to
reclaim it.
I do not think it is credible for this administration to
say it is concerned about people piling up in ICE detention
facilities when we continue to detain scores and hundreds and
hundreds of people who have nothing but a civil infraction in
ICE facilities, and the danger of COVID-19 spread in them is
incredible. So the small number of people who you might, you
know, deport to Haiti or whatnot is a tiny fraction of that
problem.
I want to know what U.S. policy is advanced by deporting
COVID-19-positive people to Haiti, as we have done. I believe
it is at least eight people and maybe more.
Mr. Kozak. Congressman, the total number of COVID-19-
positive are people who have been deported and later have shown
up as COVID-19 positive is 220 out of 37,000. Of those, I think
186 were Guatemalan. We are still trying to figure out why the
numbers are so high there. So it is a very small percentage,
and if you exclude Guatemala, it is a super small percentage.
The reason it is small is that the policy of ICE, and they
would be able to go into it in more detail, they do not put
anybody on a removal flight who they have any indication has a
contagious disease or is sick in any way. They wait for them to
recover before they take them out.
The reason you get a handful where they turn up positive at
the other end is that with this disease, you can test
positive--or test negative in the morning and test positive in
the afternoon. So there has been a conscious effort. They have
improved their protocols all along. We worked with the other
countries to put in place good sound protocols. It has been a
very good cooperative effort. But the bottom line is getting
people back home to their families, out in their communities,
away from being in a congregate setting is better for them. The
leaders of those countries recognize that as well, and----
Mr. Levin. Okay. Sir, I am going to reclaim my time again.
Mr. Kozak [continuing]. They have worked with us.
Mr. Levin. Sir, the idea that deporting people and sending
them back to their families is an absurd statement, with all
due respect. Many people we are deporting have not been in
those countries many years.
Let me just ask you one other question because my time is
limited. I know Omlo_
[sic]_is visiting President Trump next week. Will President
Trump bring up with Omlo the unconscionable and unacceptable
detention of the labor activist and attorney Susana Prieto?
Will he bring that up with Omlo, yes or no, or will you
encourage him to?
Mr. Kozak. Well, I cannot tell you what the President will
do until he does it. But I can say that her case is very
familiar to us. We are in close touch with her through her
family and are tracking it very closely.
Mr. Castro. Okay.
Mr. Kozak. And as Ambassador Lighthizer said, we see this
as a very bad development. I think the Mexican government knows
that. And----
Mr. Castro [presiding]. Secretary Kozak, I am going to have
to--thank you, Representative Levin. We are going to have to go
on.
Mr. Levin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Mr. Castro. Absolutely. It should be noted, though, I was
at two ICE detention centers in the last few weeks and they do
not test everybody who was there. Just to make that clear.
Let me go on to Vicente Gonzalez of Texas.
Vicente, are you around?
How about Representative Vargas?
Mr. Vargas. Yes, I am here. Can you hear me, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Castro. Yes.
Mr. Vargas. Mr. Chairman, thank you again for holding this
hearing, Mr. Sires. And thank you, Ambassador and Director, for
being here.
I do want to followup with some of the questions of the
deportations. In particular, on March 20, 2020, the CDC issued
an order using COVID as a pretext to circumvent the asylum
process and humanitarian protections for unaccompanied children
and others. The order was extended indefinitely in May. Since
the order went into effect, you said 37,000 people have been
deported, but I believe it is 43,000 people have been
automatically expelled without due process, including 2,175
unaccompanied children. The majority are being pushed into
Mexico. Children are being deported into crowded deportation
flights into their home countries.
Title 42 proceedings, the public health authority claims to
give authority to automatically expel asylum seekers and
children without due process. The provision was never meant to
regulate immigration and I think is being grossly misused. And
we do know that some of these people that have been deported,
as you just stated, 220 have COVID, but not all of them are
tested.
So I would like to ask you, how is that in any way humane,
and how are we doing the right thing, especially when we are
trying to show the world, especially Latin America, that we are
not China?
Mr. Kozak. Thank you, sir. And you are right, I was talking
about 37,000 coming out of ICE detention facilities as opposed
to people who are encountered at the border and turned around
pursuant to the Title 42 order of CDC. And I think the numbers
you cited are the right ones for that.
I would note, for those people, the--again, the rationale,
as I understand it, behind CDC's order was to avoid large
numbers of people congregating at the border control points,
ports of entry. And the result is that the people who we are
turning back, I think in the 95, 96 percent of them are going
back into Mexico within 90 minutes to 2 hours of arriving at
the port of entry. So it is a very different deal.
In one case, you have people who have been held in
detention for some time; in the other, you have people who show
up and you are saying, wait, do not come in now, we are not
open for business. And so that is the distinction.
Mr. Vargas. But with the rapid--you stated and I believe
the chairman also stated that the epicenter of the coronavirus
is in Latin America, do not you think it is unconscionable that
we just send these people back, not knowing exactly the
situation in the country, especially the children? How is that
in any way humane or the right thing to do?
Mr. Kozak. Well, again, I would refer you to the health
authorities, but I would observe that the country with the most
infections is the United States. So they are coming from
countries with lower infections into--if we let them into the
United States, then, you know, you have a risk here as well.
So, you know, you have to--I would have to refer you back to
colleagues at CDC as to all the rationale that went into the
decisionmaking on this.
We are involved in the diplomatic part of it, not the
operational part, but in trying to work with other governments
to be sure we are coordinated and aligned on this. And I must
say, in that, we have had extremely good professional
cooperation across the board. There has been a willingness,
everybody realizes that this is an extremely difficult
humanitarian situation and has worked with us and very
effectively to try to deal with it.
Mr. Vargas. Well, I guess, again, I do want to thank you
for your service. I know you have had a long and distinguished
service, but frankly, I think that the nations down there see
what--especially the people there--see exactly what we are
doing, is we are not giving the immigrants that come here an
opportunity to go through a due process procedure where they
are asking for asylum. Instead, we are simply throwing them
back into their countries into situations very difficult,
without giving them any opportunity to prove their case. And I
do not think it is a good situation, especially when we are
trying to combat what is happening in Latin America, vis--vis
the Chinese, who I think are giving the Latin Americans a very
raw deal.
Mr. Kozak. Well, sir, I would observe one thing that we are
avoiding, which is the human smugglers. They are really adept
at finding every--every time we change a procedure, every time
we do something, they immediately shift around and try to
victimize people who would fit the category they think they can
smuggle into the U.S. And, frankly, that is one of the biggest
dangers. If you start getting large numbers of people being
coming out of Central America in caravans, going in the back of
trucks through the desert and everything, again, that is
certainly not going to be healthy for them either.
I would like to put some emphasis on some of the things we
are trying to do to deal with protection concerns of people in
the region, though. It is not that people do not have
legitimate concerns in some of these places. But one of the
little known things we have been doing for some years now is
working with the U.N. authorities. There is a system called the
protection transfer arrangements in the three Central American
countries. And if people have protection concerns, they are
saying I am being persecuted for political, religious, social
reasons, they can go to UNHCR, they can get their case
adjudicated. And if it is found meritorious, they will try to
place them.
A great percentage of the people who have been found
meritorious that way have been placed in the United States, but
they are coming here in a safe, orderly, legal way and not
coming, showing up at the border in the hands of human
smugglers. So this is what we are trying to do is channel that
demand into a channel that is safe, orderly, legal and is not
being abused and subjecting a lot of people to abuse by
smugglers.
Mr. Vargas. I think my time has expired. I certainly would
have challenged you on that. But, again, thank you very much. I
appreciate it.
Mr. Sires [presiding]. Vicente Gonzalez is recognized for 5
minutes.
Well, this has been a very interesting hearing, not only in
the process, but all the good information that we received.
Thank you again for being here and for joining us, whether
virtually or in person, for this important hearing.
This virus has taken nearly 130,000 lives in our country
and another 100,000 lives in Latin American and the Caribbean.
In the face of this devastation, we must come together to work
with our southern neighbors to bring the coronavirus under
control.
I thank our witnesses and the members for their
participation. I look forward to working with my colleagues in
Congress and the administration to support the public health
response and economic recovery in the region.
And with that, the committee is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:36 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
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RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
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