[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                     BUDGET CUTS AND LOST LEARNING:
                        ASSESSING THE IMPACT OF
                      COVID-19 ON PUBLIC EDUCATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                         COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION
                               AND LABOR
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                     ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

             HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, JUNE 15, 2020

                               __________

                           Serial No. 116-58

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Labor
      
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]      


    Available via the: https://edlabor.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov
    
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
41-105 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
    
    
                    COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR

             ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia, Chairman

Susan A. Davis, California           Virginia Foxx, North Carolina,
Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona            Ranking Member
Joe Courtney, Connecticut            David P. Roe, Tennessee
Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio                Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania
Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan,      Tim Walberg, Michigan
  Northern Mariana Islands           Brett Guthrie, Kentucky
Frederica S. Wilson, Florida         Bradley Byrne, Alabama
Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon             Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Mark Takano, California              Elise M. Stefanik, New York
Alma S. Adams, North Carolina        Rick W. Allen, Georgia
Mark DeSaulnier, California          Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania
Donald Norcross, New Jersey          Jim Banks, Indiana
Pramila Jayapal, Washington          Mark Walker, North Carolina
Joseph D. Morelle, New York          James Comer, Kentucky
Susan Wild, Pennsylvania             Ben Cline, Virginia
Josh Harder, California              Russ Fulcher, Idaho
Lucy McBath, Georgia                 Steve Watkins, Kansas
Kim Schrier, Washington              Ron Wright, Texas
Lauren Underwood, Illinois           Daniel Meuser, Pennsylvania
Jahana Hayes, Connecticut            Dusty Johnson, South Dakota
Donna E. Shalala, Florida            Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
Andy Levin, Michigan*                Gregory F. Murphy, North Carolina
Ilhan Omar, Minnesota                Jefferson Van Drew, New Jersey
David J. Trone, Maryland
Haley M. Stevens, Michigan
Susie Lee, Nevada
Lori Trahan, Massachusetts
Joaquin Castro, Texas
* Vice-Chair

                   Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director
                 Brandon Renz, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on June 15, 2019....................................     1

Statement of Members:
    Foxx, Hon. Virginia, Ranking Member, Committee on Education 
      and Labor..................................................     8
        Prepared statement of....................................     9
    Scott, Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'', Chairman, Committee on 
      Education and Labor........................................     1
        Prepared statement of....................................     6

Statement of Witness:
    Gordon, Mr. Eric, Chief Executive Officer, Cleveland 
      Metropolitan School District, Cleveland, OH................    31
        Prepared statement of....................................    34
    Johnson, Mr. Mark, Superintendent of Public Instruction, 
      North Carolina Department of Public Instruction, Raleigh, 
      NC.........................................................    28
        Prepared statement of....................................    30
    Leachman, Mr. Michael, Ph.D., Vice President for State Fiscal 
      Policy Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, Washington, 
      DC.........................................................    11
        Prepared statement of....................................    14
    Pringle, Ms. Rebecca, Vice President, National Education 
      Association Education Association, Washington, DC..........    21
        Prepared statement of....................................    24

Additional Submissions:
    Courtney, Hon. Joe, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Connecticut:
        Article: Ripple Effects of Downturn Show Pandemic's Early 
          Economic Toll was Just the Beginning...................    49
        Article: Norwich Board of Education Cuts Staff, Rejects 
          Closing Schools for now................................   114
    Questions submitted for the record by:
        Bonamici, Hon. Suzanne, a Representative in Congress from 
          the State of Oregon....................................   119
        Sablan, Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho, a Representative in 
          Congress from the Northern Mariana Islands 

    Responses submitted for the record by:
        Mr. Gordon...............................................   122
        Ms. Pringle..............................................   124

 
                     BUDGET CUTS AND LOST LEARNING:
                        ASSESSING THE IMPACT OF
                      COVID-19 ON PUBLIC EDUCATION

                              ----------                              


                         Monday, June 15, 2020

                       House of Representatives,

                   Committee on Education and Labor,

                            Washington, D.C.

                              ----------                              

    The committee met, pursuant to call, at 12:02 p.m., via 
Webex, Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'' Scott (Chairman of the 
committee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Scott, Davis, Grijalva, Courtney, 
Fudge, Sablan, Wilson, Takano, Adams, Norcross, Jayapal, 
Morelle, Wild, Harder, McBath, Schrier, Underwood, Hayes, 
Shalala, Levin, Trone, Stevens, Lee, Trahan, Foxx, Roe, 
Thompson, Walberg, Guthrie, Byrne, Grothman, Stefanik, Allen, 
Smucker, Banks, Comer, Cline, Wright, Meuser, Johnson, Kelller, 
and Murphy.
    Staff Present: Tylease, Alli, Chief Clerk; Phoebe, Ball, 
Disability Counsel; Ilana, Brunner, General Counsel; Ramon, 
Carranza, Education Policy Fellow; Christian, Haines, General 
Counsel; Sheila, Havenner, Director of Information Technology; 
Ariel, Jona, Staff Assistant; Stephanie, Lalle, Deputy 
Communications Director; Andre, Lindsay, Staff Assistant; 
Jaria, Martin, Clerk/Special Assistant to the Staff Director; 
Richard, Miller, Director of Labor Policy; Katelyn, Mooney, 
Associate General Counsel; Max, Moore, Staff Assistant; Mariah, 
Mowbray, Staff Assistant; Jacque, Mosely, Director of Education 
Policy; Veronique, Pluviose, Staff Director; Lakeisha, Steele, 
Professional Staff; Loredana, Valtierra, Education Policy 
Counsel; Banyon, Vassar, Deputy Director of Information 
Technology; Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff Director, Courtney 
Butcher, Minority Director of Member Services and Coalitions; 
Amy Raaf Jones, Minority Director of Education and Human 
Resources Policy; Carlton Norwood, Minority Press Secretary; 
Chance Russell, Minority Legislative Assistant; Mandy 
Schaumburg, Minority Chief Counsel and Deputy Director of 
Education Policy; and Brad Thomas, Minority Senior Education 
Policy Advisor.
    Chairman Scott. The Committee on Education and Labor will 
come to order.
    I want to welcome everyone and note that a quorum is 
present. The Committee is meeting today for a hearing to hear 
testimony on, quote, ``Budget Cuts and Loss Learning: Assessing 
the Impact of COVID-19 on Public Education.''
    This is a completely virtual hearing, and I will ask that 
all microphones, for Members and witnesses participating 
remotely, be kept muted as a general rule to avoid unnecessary 
background noise. Members and witnesses will be responsible for 
unmuting themselves when they are recognized to speak or when 
they wish to seek recognition.
    Further, pursuant to House Resolution 965 and its 
accompanying regulations, Members are required to leave their 
cameras on the entire time they are in an official proceeding, 
even if they step away from the camera. This is an entirely 
remote hearing, and as such the Committee's hearing room is 
officially closed. Members who choose to sit in there--with 
their individual devices in the hearing room must wear 
headphones to avoid feedback, echoes, and distortion resulting 
from more than one person in the room on the software platform 
as has been reported by other committees.
    They are also expected to adhere to social distancing and 
safe healthcare guidelines, including the use of masks, gloves, 
and wiping down their area both before and after their presence 
in the hearing room.
    And while a roll call is not necessary to establish a 
quorum, in an official proceeding conducted remotely, whenever 
there is an official proceeding with remote participation, the 
clerk will call the role to help make clear who is present at 
the start of the proceeding.
    At this time I will ask the Clerk to call the role.
    Madam Clerk.
    The Clerk. Chairman Scott?
    Chairman Scott. Present.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Davis?
    Mrs. Davis. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Grijalva?
    Mr. Grijalva.
    The Clerk. Mr. Courtney?
    Mr. Courtney. Present.
    The Clerk. Ms. Fudge?
    Ms. Fudge. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Sablan?
    Mr. Sablan. Present.
    Mr. Clerk. Ms. Wilson?
    Ms. Bonamici?
    Mr. Takano?
    Mr. Takano. Present.
    The Clerk. Ms. Adams?
    Ms. Adams. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. DeSaulnier?
    Mr. Norcross?
    Mr. Norcross. Here.
    The Clerk. Ms. Jayapal?
    Ms. Jayapal. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Morelle?
    Mr. Morelle. Present.
    The Clerk. Ms. Wild?
    Ms. Wild. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Harder?
    Mr. Harder. Present.
    The Clerk. Mrs. McBath?
    Mrs. McBath. Present.
    The Clerk. Ms. Schrier?
    Ms. Schrier. Present.
    The Clerk. Ms. Underwood?
    Ms. Underwood. Present.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Hayes?
    Ms. Shalala?
    Ms. Shalala. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Levin?
    Mr. Levin. Here.
    The Clerk. Ms. Omar?
    Mr. Trone?
    Mr. Trone. Here.
    The Clerk. Ms. Stevens?
    Ms. Stevens. Hello. I am here, present.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Lee?
    Mrs. Lee. Present.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Trahan?
    Mrs. Trahan. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Castro?
    Mrs. Foxx?
    Ms. Foxx. Present in the committee room.
    The Clerk. Mr. Roe?
    Mr. Thompson?
    Mr. Thompson. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Walberg?
    Ms. Foxx. Mr. Walberg is having difficulty with his sound, 
but he is present in the room.
    The Clerk. Mr. Guthrie?
    Mr. Guthrie. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Byrne?
    Mr. Byrne. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Grothman?
    Ms. Stefanik?
    Ms. Stefanik. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Allen?
    Mr. Allen. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Smucker?
    Mr. Smucker. Here.
    The Clerk. Mr. Banks?
    Mr. Walker?
    Mr. Comer?
    Mr. Comer. Present in the committee room.
    The Clerk. Mr. Cline?
    Mr. Cline. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Fulcher?
    Mr. Watkins?
    Mr. Wright?
    Mr. Wright. Here.
    The Clerk. Mr. Meuser?
    Mr. Meuser. Present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Johnson?
    Mr. Johnson. Johnson is present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Keller?
    Mr. Keller. Here.
    The Clerk. Mr. Murphy?
    Mr. Murphy. Present in the committee room.
    The Clerk. Mr. Van Drew?
    Chairman Scott, this concludes the roll call.
    Chairman Scott. If people will all remute, there is still a 
lot of background noise, we would appreciate it.
    Thank you.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 7(c), opening statements are 
limited to the Chair and Ranking Member. This allows us to hear 
from our witnesses sooner and provides all members with 
adequate time to ask questions.
    I now recognize myself for an opening statement. But before 
I deliver opening remarks, let me first acknowledge the recent 
protest against police misconduct and in favor of racial equity 
and justice across the Nation. Times are demanding that we 
address this country's centuries-old challenges, and with 
today's hearing, we can be prepared to answer the calls for 
racial equity and justice in education.
    I want to note that this hearing marks the Committee's 
first fully remote hearing, pursuant to House Resolution 965 
and its accompanying regulations.
    Today we are going to examine how COVID-19 pandemic has 
drastically impacted State and local government revenue and how 
projected State and local government shortfalls will further 
exacerbate educational inequities rooted around the country.
    Nationwide school closures due to COVID-19 have had a 
profound effect on all students, especially in what has been 
called the summer slide; only this year the summer slide has 
started a few months earlier than usual.
    Our country's history of educational inequity tells us 
which students will lose the most during these schools 
closures. Today the pandemic is exposing and worsening 
achievements gaps for students of color, students with 
disabilities, English language learners, and students from low-
income backgrounds.
    Vulnerable students are less likely to attend schools that 
have the resources to rapidly establish high-quality distance 
learning programs. They are also less likely to have the basic 
technology, such as a personal computer and high-speed internet 
connections, and the support at home needed to access virtual 
learning.
    Data suggests that only 60 percent of low-income students 
are regularly logging into online instruction compared to 90 
percent of high-income students. Only 60 to 70 percent of 
students in schools serving predominantly black and Latino 
students are regularly logging in.
    It is important to note that States and school districts 
entered this recession with already crumbling infrastructure, a 
teacher shortage, 77,000 fewer school workers, and about 2 
million more public school students compared to prerecession 
levels. These setbacks have not been distributed equally. Our 
continued reliance on local property taxes to finance public 
education has ensured that public schools with the highest need 
are forced to do with less.
    Unfortunately, the achievement gaps exacerbated by COVID-19 
could widen even further.
    This morning the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, or 
CBPP, revealed that States will face a $615 billion revenue 
shortfall over the next 3 years due to the pandemic. States are 
required to balance their budgets every year and public 
education is usually one of the largest expenditures, about 40 
percent of many State budgets on average.
    Unless the Federal Government provides immediate relief, it 
won't be a matter of whether education funding will be cut but 
how deep the cuts will be. While wealthier districts will fall 
back on property taxes, low-income public schools will rely 
heavily on State funding. These districts, which are already 
disproportionally impacted by COVID-19, will suffer severe cuts 
in education and other areas at a time when they can least 
afford it.
    We have already started to see the consequences of these 
shortfalls. Nearly 759,000 public school employees have lost 
their jobs since March.
    In Colorado, State Legislature just passed the budget that 
cuts $1 billion from its schools next year.
    In Virginia, we ended our regular General Assembly session 
just as the pandemic was starting and then reconvened a few 
weeks later for the normal veto session where we consider the 
Governor's vetoes and amendments. Revenues had been reforecast 
during that period of time, and we learned a new word, 
unallocated. That is what happened to the 2 percent teacher 
raise. That is what happened to additional counselors in the 
schools. That is what happened to money going into low-income 
school districts. Because of the renewed revised revenue 
estimates, those expenditures were unallocated. Unless they get 
assistance from the Federal Government, those expenditures will 
just totally evaporate.
    But regrettably the Department of Education has received 
$31 billion to help fund the emergency education funding. That 
happened in the CARES Act. But, regrettably, the Department has 
mishandled those funds and has prevented States and school 
districts from quickly accessing those funds.
    Specifically, the Department issued equitable service 
guidance, which has drawn bipartisan criticism and generated 
widespread confusion, by directing schools to divert funding 
relief away from low-income students in public schools to 
support wealthier students in private schools.
    The Department also announced its intention to use the vast 
majority of the $300 million in discretionary funds it received 
in the CARES Act which was intended to support public schools 
in their effort to respond to the virus, to fund a grant 
program that is virtually indistinguishable from private school 
vouchers.
    Even if the Department had used CARES Act funds in 
accordance with the law, the initial emergency relief package 
would be insufficient to confront the scale of the problem. 
Researchers project that reopening schools could cost the 
average school district about $2 million, with large urban 
districts obviously facing higher costs.
    The American Federation of Teachers projects that schools 
nationwide will need as much as $116 billion to safely reopen 
campuses. Recent history foreshadows the consequences our 
educational system will face if we fail to act.
    In response to the great recession in 2008, Congress 
provided approximately $110 billion in funding for education, 
more than three times the funding we have secured in response 
to the pandemic so far, while helpful research shows that even 
that funding was insufficient and did not focus enough on 
school districts with the highest need. Consequently, schools 
across the country experienced massive budget cuts. 300,000 
school employees lost their jobs, and unsurprisingly children 
in the poorest communities bore the brunt of these cuts.
    This lesson from our past makes clear that school districts 
urgently need more relief, and to that end the House passed the 
Heroes Act last month. This legislative relief package 
dedicates nearly a trillion dollars to help States and 
localities address their budget shortfalls and to avert cuts in 
education.
    Additionally, it provides $60 billion in direct K through 
12 emergency funding that schools can use to cover the costs of 
cleaning supplies and other expenses required to reopen, 
purchase educational technology like laptops and hot spots, 
sustain special education for students with disabilities, 
provide training and professional development for teachers, and 
support school counselors who are helping students tackle the 
trauma of this pandemic.
    This is a pivotal and perilous moment in our fight for 
equity in education. The pandemic has already translated into a 
major setback with students across the country; but with all of 
us wanting to reopen the schools as quickly as possible, we 
cannot put the safety of students, teachers, and communities at 
risk or opening schools without providing the resources they 
need.
    If we fail to give the States and local governments and the 
school districts these recourses, the impact of this 
unprecedented challenge on students will be felt long after it 
is over.
    I want to thank our witnesses for being with us today, and 
I yield to the distinguished ranking member, Dr. Foxx, for the 
purpose of an opening statement.
    Dr. Foxx.
    [The statement of Chairman Scott follows:]

    Prepared Statement of Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'' Scott, Chairman, 
                    Committee on Education and Labor

    Before I deliver opening remarks, let me first acknowledge the 
recent protests against police misconduct and in favor of racial equity 
and justice across the nation and the world. The times are demanding 
that we address this country's centuries-old challenge. With today's 
hearing, we can be prepared to answer the calls for racial equity and 
justice in education.
    I want to note that this hearing marks the Committee's first fully 
remote hearing, per House Resolution 965 and its accompanying 
regulations.
    Today, we will examine how the COVID-19 pandemic has drastically 
impacted state and local government revenue and how projected state and 
local government shortfalls will further exacerbate educational 
inequities rooted around the country.
    Nationwide school closures due to COVID-19 have had a profound 
effect on all students, especially in what has been called the summer 
slide; only, this year, the summer started a few months earlier than 
usual.
    Our country's history of educational inequity tells us which 
students lose the most during these school closures. Today, the 
pandemic is exposing and worsening achievement gaps for students of 
color, students with disabilities, English language learners, and 
students from low-income backgrounds.
    Vulnerable students are less likely to attend schools that have the 
resources to rapidly establish high-quality distance learning programs. 
They are also less likely to have the basic technology, such as 
personal devices and high-speed internet, and the support at home 
needed to access virtual learning.
    Data suggest that only 60 percent of low-income students are 
regularly logging into online instruction compared to 90 percent of 
high-income students. Only 60 to 70 percent of students in schools 
serving predominantly Black and Latino students are regularly logging 
in.
    It's important to note that states and school districts entered 
this recession with already crumbling infrastructure; a teacher 
shortage; 77,000 fewer school workers; and about 2 million more public 
school students compared to pre-recession levels.
    These setbacks have not been distributed equally. Our continued 
reliance on local property taxes to finance public education has 
ensured that public schools with the highest need are forced to do more 
with less.
    Unfortunately, the achievement gaps exacerbated by COVID-19 could 
widen even further.
    This morning, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, or CBPP, 
revealed that states will face a $615 billion revenue shortfall over 
the next three years due to the pandemic.
    States are required to balance their budgets every year, and public 
education is usually one of their largest expenditures, accounting for 
40% of many states' budgets, on average.
    Unless the federal government provides immediate relief, it won't 
be a matter of whether education funding will be cut, but how deep the 
cuts will be. While wealthier districts will fall back on property 
taxes, low-income public schools will rely heavily on state funding. 
These districts--which are already disproportionally impacted by COVID-
19--will suffer severe cuts in education and other areas at a time when 
they can least afford it.
    We have already started to see the consequences of these 
shortfalls. Nearly 759,000 public school employees have lost their jobs 
since March. In Colorado, the state legislature just passed a budget 
that cuts $1 billion from its schools for next year.
    In Virginia, we ended our regular General Assembly session just as 
the pandemic was starting and then reconvened a few weeks later for the 
normal veto session where we consider the governor's vetoes and 
amendments. Revenues had been reforecast during that period of time and 
we learned a new word: unallocated. That is what happened to the two-
percent teacher raise; that is what happened to the additional 
counselors in schools; that is what happened to money going into low-
income school districts. Because of the revised revenue estimates, 
those expenditures were unallocated.
    Unless they get assistance from the federal government, those 
expenditures will totally evaporate.
    The Department of Education has received $31 billion to help 
provide emergency education funding, which happened in the CARES Act.
    Regrettably, the Education Department has mishandled those funds 
and prevented states and school districts from quickly accessing these 
funds.
    Specifically, the Department issued equitable service guidance, 
which has drawn bipartisan criticism and generated widespread confusion 
by directing schools to divert relief funding away from low-income 
students in public schools to support wealthier students in private 
schools.
    The Department also announced its intention to use a vast majority 
of the $300 million in discretionary funds it received in the CARES 
Act--which were intended to support public schools in their efforts to 
respond to the virus--to fund a grant program that is virtually 
indistinguishable from private school vouchers.
    Even if the Department had used CARES Act funds in accordance with 
the law, the initial emergency relief package would be insufficient to 
confront the scale of the problem.
    Researchers project that reopening schools could cost the average 
school district about $2 million, with large urban school districts 
obviously facing far higher costs. The American Federation of Teachers 
projects that schools nationwide will need as much as $116 billion to 
safely reopen campuses.
    Recent history foreshadows the consequences our education system 
will face if we fail to act. In response to the Great Recession in 
2008, Congress provided approximately $110 billion in funding for 
education--more than three times the funding we've secured in response 
to the pandemic so far.
    While helpful, research shows that even that funding was 
insufficient and did not focus enough on school districts with the 
highest need. Consequentially, schools across the country experienced 
massive budget cuts; 300,000 school employees lost their jobs; and, 
unsurprisingly, children in the poorest communities bore the brunt of 
these cuts.
    This lesson from our past makes clear that school districts 
urgently need more relief.
    To that end, the House passed the Heroes Act last month. This 
legislative relief package dedicates nearly $1 trillion to help states 
and localities address their budget shortfalls and avert cuts in 
education.
    Additionally, it provides nearly $60 billion in direct K-12 
emergency funding that schools can use to:

   Cover the cost of cleaning supplies and other expenses 
        required to reopen;

   Purchase educational technology, like laptops and hotspots;

   Sustain special education for students with disabilities;

   Provide training and professional development for teachers; 
        and,

   Support school counselors, who are helping students tackle 
        the trauma of this pandemic.

    This is a pivotal and perilous moment in our fight for equity in 
education. The pandemic has already translated to a major setback for 
students across the country.
    But--while all of us want to reopen schools as quickly as 
possible--we cannot put the safety of students, teachers, and 
communities at risk by reopening schools without providing them the 
resources they need.
    If we fail to give states, local governments, and school districts 
these resources, the impact of this unprecedented challenge on students 
will be felt long after it is over.
    I thank our witnesses for being here today, and yield to the 
Ranking Member, Dr. Foxx, for the purpose of an opening statement.
                                 ______
                                 
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Chairman Scott.
    I want to thank our witnesses also for being here today, 
and I want to particularly recognize, as a former teacher, the 
teachers and schools for their herculean work this spring to 
stand up learning distance mechanisms for students and in some 
cases doing so almost overnight.
    Educators at all levels should be celebrated for their 
dedication in responding to the coronavirus crisis and going 
far beyond their normal responsibilities to respond to the 
needs of their students and communities. Just as our teachers 
are working to overcome the many challenges this global 
pandemic poses, this Nation's elected officials must also step 
up and do the job they were elected to do. This means working 
from D.C. and being physically present, like our founders 
intended. That is why Committee Republicans are participating 
in today's hearing in person from our hearing room.
    The Republican invited witnesses also are with us in the 
hearing room. We can and should be at work here in Washington, 
and I urge my Democrat colleagues to make that a priority 
moving forward.
    The coronavirus pandemic has adversely impacted private and 
public schools alike. An estimated 94 percent of public and 
private schools closed this spring impacting approximately 97 
percent of the country's students. All students, including 
those at traditional public schools, charter schools, and 
private schools, should have access to the tools they need for 
lifelong success.
    That is why Congress responded swiftly and enacted the 
CARES Act, which provided more than $30 billion in emergency 
education funding for students, schools, institutions, and 
States. There has been no evaluation of how $30 billion in 
hardworking taxpayer money has been spent, yet here we are with 
Democrats pushing those same taxpayers to dole out more of 
their hard earned money at a time when many Americans are being 
forced to tighten their belts.
    Given the ever-evolving threat COVID-19 poses, it would be 
irresponsible to rush to throw additional funds at a problem we 
don't understand fully. Also, some schools have not yet spent 
the funds they received from the CARES Act. Despite these 
facts, Democrats are demanding we spend more money. Money is 
not a cure-all solution, and it is irresponsible to blindly 
throw more money at this situation.
    Let's not forget that history has shown that more spending 
does not guarantee better outcomes. In fact, per pupil 
educational spending has increased significantly over the 
years, but high school seniors aren't performing any better 
than they were 30 years ago.
    Congress must first evaluate the impact of the billions of 
dollars in Federal taxpayer education aid already provided 
through the CARES Act before rushing to further burden 
taxpayers with additional spending. Demanding additional funds 
at this time is premature and illogical.
    As we continue to monitor the issues students and schools 
face, it is within this Committee's jurisdiction to explore 
opportunities for long-lasting reforms that will improve the 
education system for all families. For example, families 
experiences this spring illustrated the inadequacy of the 
status quo for providing all students the foundation they need 
for lifelong success.
    I am looking forward to testimony today about what States 
and school districts are learning from the work done this 
spring, how they are identifying weaknesses in the educational 
offerings provided the students and how they are seeking to 
address those weaknesses.
    Superintendent Johnson will talk about the need for more 
personalized learning so that students' needs can be identified 
quickly and instruction can be tailored to ensure each student 
is back on the path to success when school resumes.
    I hope we hear from others about how they are using these 
current challenges to question long-held assumptions. We owe it 
to our educators and students to examine this carefully and 
legislate with meaningful reform.
    I yield back.
    [The statement of Ms. Foxx follows:]

Prepared Statement of Hon. Virginia Foxx, Ranking Member, Committee on 
                          Education and Labor

    As a former teacher I want to begin by recognizing the teachers and 
schools for their herculean work this spring to stand up distance 
learning mechanisms for students, and in some cases, doing so almost 
overnight. Educators at all levels should be celebrated for their 
dedication in responding to the coronavirus crisis and going far beyond 
their normal responsibilities to respond to the needs of their students 
and communities.
    Just as our teachers are working to overcome the many challenges 
this global pandemic poses, this nation's elected officials must also 
step up and do the job they were elected to do. This means working from 
D.C. and being physically present like our Founders intended. That is 
why Committee Republicans are participating in today's hearing in 
person from our hearing room. The Republican- invited witness is also 
with us in the hearing room.
    We can and should be at work here in Washington, and I urge my 
Democrat colleagues to make that a priority moving forward.
    The coronavirus pandemic has adversely impacted private and public 
schools alike. An estimated 94 percent of public and private schools 
closed this spring, impacting approximately 97 percent of the country's 
students. All students, including those at traditional public schools, 
charter schools, and private schools, should have access to the tools 
they need for lifelong success.
    That is why Congress responded swiftly and enacted the CARES Act, 
which provided more than $30 billion in emergency education funding to 
students, schools, institutions, and states.
    There has been no evaluation of how $30 billion in hardworking 
taxpayer money has been spent, yet here we are with Democrats pushing 
those same taxpayers to dole out more of their hard-earned money at a 
time when many Americans are being forced to tighten their belts.
    Given the ever-evolving threat COVID-19 poses it would be 
irresponsible to rush to throw additional funds at a problem we don't 
understand fully. Also, some schools have not yet spent the funds they 
received from the CARES Act. Despite these facts, Democrats are 
demanding we spend more money.
    Money is not a cure-all solution and it is irresponsible to blindly 
throw more money at this situation.
    Let's not forget that history has shown that more spending doesn't 
guarantee better outcomes. In fact, per-pupil education spending has 
increased significantly over the years, but high school seniors aren't 
performing any better than they were 30 years ago.
    Congress must first evaluate the impact of the billions of dollars 
in federal taxpayer education aid already provided through the CARES 
Act before rushing to further burden taxpayers with additional 
spending. Demanding additional funds at this time is premature and 
illogical.
    As we continue to monitor the issues students and schools face, it 
is within this Committee's jurisdiction to explore opportunities for 
long-lasting reforms that will improve the education system for all 
families. For example, families' experiences this spring illustrated 
the inadequacy of the status quo for providing all students the 
foundation they need for lifelong success.
    I am looking forward to testimony today about what states and 
school districts are learning from the work done this spring, how they 
are identifying weaknesses in the educational offerings provided to 
students, and how they are seeking to address those weaknesses. 
Superintendent Johnson will talk about the need for more personalized 
learning so that students' needs can be identified quickly, and 
instruction that can be tailored to ensure each student is back on the 
path to success when school resumes. I hope we hear from others about 
how they are using these current challenges to question long-held 
assumptions. We owe it to our educators and students to examine this 
carefully and legislate with meaningful reform.
                                 ______
                                 
    Chairman Scott. Thank you, Dr. Foxx.
    And all other Members who wish to introduce written 
statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the 
Committee Clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 
Monday, June 29, by 5:00 p.m.
    I will now introduce our witnesses.
    Dr. Michael Leachman, Vice President of State Fiscal Policy 
at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. He directs the 
center's State policy research, overseeing analysis of State 
policy needs, how Federal policy decisions affect States and 
State policy choices and improve equity and boost opportunity.
    Becky Pringle is vice President of the National Education 
Association, the Nation's largest labor union and professional 
association for educators. Ms. Pringle served as a middle 
school teacher in science for 31 years. She has received 
numerous awards for her commitment to education equity, 
received her bachelor of science degree in elementary education 
from the University of Pittsburgh, master's degree in education 
from Pennsylvania State University.
    I now yield to the Ranking Member, Dr. Foxx, to introduce 
Mr. Johnson.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman.
    I am thrilled to have my home State superintendent with us 
today. I have known Mark for several years, and he has done an 
incredible job at North Carolina. Mark was elected North 
Carolina State Superintendent in 2016. He has been involved in 
education in a variety of roles, including as a teacher at West 
Charlotte High School in Charlotte, North Carolina, and as a 
member of the Winston-Salem/Forsyth County School Board.
    I thank Mark for being here today and look forward to his 
testimony. I think Mark's experience leading our State through 
these challenges will be helpful for our members.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you, Dr. Foxx.
    Our fourth witness, Eric Gordon, was appointed Chief 
Executive Officer of the Cleveland Metropolitan School District 
in June 2011 after serve as the District's Chief Academic 
Officer for four years. He serves as a member of the Executive 
Committee for the Board of Directors for the Council of Great 
Cities Schools. Mr. Gordon owns a bachelor's degree in science 
in secondary mathematics education and driver education, and a 
master's degree in education administration and supervision 
from Bowling Green State University.
    I appreciate the witnesses for participating today and look 
forward to your testimony. Let me remind the witnesses that we 
have read your written statements and they will appear in full 
in the hearing record.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 7(d) and Committee practice, 
each speaker is asked to limit your oral presentation to a 5 
minute summary of your written testimony. Let me remind the 
witnesses that pursuant to the Code, it is illegally to 
knowingly and willfully testify--falsify any statement, any 
representation, or otherwise conceal or cover up material facts 
when presenting to Congress.
    During your testimony staff will keep track of your time 
and use a chime to signal--they will use a short chime when 
there is 1 minute left in your 5 minutes and a longer chime 
when time is up. Please be attentive to the time and wrap up 
when your time is over and then remute your system.
    If anyone is experiencing technical difficulties during 
your testimony or later in the hearing, you should stay 
connected on the platform and make sure you are muted with your 
mute button highlighted in red and use your phone to 
immediately call the committee's IT director whose number has 
been provided for you.
    We will let all of our witnesses make their presentations 
before we move to member questions. When answering a question, 
please remember to unmute your system.
    I will first recognize Dr. Leachman for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF MICHAEL LEACHMAN, Ph.D., VICE PRESIDENT FOR STATE 
     FISCAL POLICY CENTER ON BUDGET AND POLICY PRIORITIES, 
                        WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Mr. Leachman. Chairman Scott, Ranking Member Foxx, and 
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today.
    I am Michael Leachman, Vice President for State Fiscal 
Policy of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a 
nonpartisan research and policy institute.
    The COVID-19 pandemic has created an extraordinary, 
unanticipated State fiscal crisis. States rely on sales and 
income taxes for 70 percent of their tax revenue, and with so 
many businesses closed and so many people laid off, these 
revenues have fallen off the table. Based on history and the 
economic projections from the Congressional Budget Office and 
the Federal Reserve, we project total State shortfalls of $615 
billion over the next three State fiscal years.
    It is hard to exaggerate the magnitude of this crisis. The 
shortfalls that States will face in the upcoming fiscal year 
alone far exceed even the worst year of the great recession of 
a decade ago. Federal aid provided so far, while helpful, is 
much too small to allow States to avoid laying off teachers and 
other workers and taking other steps that would worsen the 
recession and delay recovery. States can use this aid to close 
roughly a hundred billion dollars of their budget gaps. Even 
with that aid and with all of the States' rainy day funds, they 
would still fall some $440 billion short.
    These estimates do not include States added costs due 
directly to the COVID-19 virus. School districts, for example, 
face substantial unanticipated costs, including costs for 
distance learning and expanded learning time to offset the 
learning loss caused by school closures.
    Further, our shortfall estimates are for States only. As 
you know schools also depend heavily on revenue raised by 
school districts and other local government entities, and their 
revenues are falling, too. Unless States and school districts 
receive much more in Federal aid, they will lay off more and 
more teachers and other workers and cut spending in other ways 
that would further weaken the economy and delay the recovery.
    When States last faced a budget crisis in the great 
recession a decade ago, emergency Federal aid closed only about 
one-quarter of State budget shortfalls, and school districts 
have never recovered from the layoffs they imposed back then.
    When COVID-19 hit earlier this year, schools employed 
77,000 fewer teachers and other workers than they did before 
the great recession took hold, even though they were teaching 1 
1/2 million more children. These funding cuts and layoffs hurt 
our kids, and that hurts our future. They drove down test 
scores and college attendance rates, and the impact was 
particularly damaging for low-income students and students of 
color, adding to the substantial structural barriers these 
children must overcome.
    Federal aid provided so far includes just $13 billion in 
direct aid for K-12 schools. That is far too little to meet the 
extreme fiscal challenges that schools face. Roughly $60 
billion in additional direct aid for schools in the Heroes Act 
is a significant step in the right direction, but on its own, 
it is not enough. States and localities could use other forms 
of aid in the Act to protect schools, but it is not certain 
that they will, and as such, we would support a significant 
increase in the amount of direct aid for schools in the final 
package.
    Besides aid for schools, States will need other forms of 
fiscal relief to avoid harmful layoffs, other cuts, and tax 
increases. Raising the Federal Medicaid matching rate that was 
under the Heroes Act is a particularly effective form of broad 
State fiscal relief. It can be delivered quickly and, by 
providing direct savings to States, raising the matching rate, 
freeze up funds that they can reallocate to protect schools and 
other fundamental public services.
    An adequate aid package will also need to include, direct 
flexible grants to States and localities like those in the 
Heroes Act. States and localities should have the flexibility 
to use these grants to make up for revenues lost during the 
pandemic. That revenue loss is the primary threat to school 
funding.
    Finally, the best way to deliver aid during economic 
downturns is through permanent automatic stabilizers that 
trigger--that trigger on based on economic indicators that 
adjust depending on the state of the economy, ending sooner if 
the economy recovers quickly, but remaining in place as long as 
needed if the recovery is unexpectedly slow.
    Thank you again for want opportunity to testify, and I will 
be happy to take questions when the time is--when that is time.
    [The statement of Mr. Leachman follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    Ms. Pringle?
    You have to unmute.

    STATEMENT OF REBECCA PRINGLE, VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL 
             EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, DC

    Ms. Pringle. Thank you, Chairman Scott, Ranking Member 
Foxx, and members of the committee. My name is Becky Pringle, 
and I am a science teacher from Pennsylvania and Vice President 
of the National Education Association.
    As NEA's vice president, I am honored to represent more 
than 3 million teachers, education support professionals, and 
specialized staff who share the belief that all students in our 
public schools, no matter where they live or their race or 
ethnicity or family income, should have an education that 
prepares them to live into their brilliance. That is our fight, 
and it is a privilege to wage it.
    The COVID-19 pandemic has deepened the disparities that 
already existed and prompted budget cuts that will devastate 
students, especially in Black and Brown, Native, and rural 
communities. The millions of students who lack access or 
connective devices were faced with this digital divide that 
denied them the opportunity to access remote instruction so 
they could continue their learning at home.
    I met with educators in North Carolina. They talked to me 
about starting the school year knowing they had to not only 
determine where their students were academically, but they 
worried about meeting the emotional needs of their students who 
they knew were suffering from anxiety and fear because of 
uncertainty and tragic losses.
    Layered on top of the pandemic is the crisis we face with 
policing in Black and Brown communities. We were not the only 
ones who witnessed the brutal murder of George Floyd. Our 
children were watching. Some have experienced themselves or 
seen their friends and loved ones subjected to racial 
profiling, humiliating and unlawful detention, or worse.
    NEA members are so proud to see their students demanding 
justice for Black lives, but everything our students are seeing 
and feeling requires that educators are able to use trauma, 
inform practices as they engage with their students. That means 
we need enough teachers, counselors, and other educators to 
nurture every student.
    The bottom line is that districts must spend more, not 
less, especially if we are to reopen schools safely, by 
providing protective equipment for students and staff and 
retrofitting classrooms and other spaces for social distancing. 
This task is more difficult because our school buildings on 
average are over 40 years old. The Rebuild America's Schools 
Act begins to tackle many long-standing infrastructure needs, 
but so much more must be done to keep our students safe.
    No doubt these investments will be a major challenge, 
especially in districts that never recovered from the 2008 
recession. Cutbacks from that recession caused 300,000 
educators to lose their jobs. Already nearly 500,000 public 
education jobs have been lost because of the pandemic. And 
according to NEA's analysis, nearly 2 million educators could 
lose their jobs over the next three years. This will be 
devastating for students in schools that already are 
underresourced. These students desperately need to return to 
public schools with the resources to help them recover and 
thrive.
    NEA has been listening to our members and allies and 
recently released reopening guidance, called all hands on deck, 
because we know reopening schools is also in the best interests 
of our Nation. But those decisions must be rooted in health and 
safety with input from educators who know the names of their 
students, professionals who have the experience to make good 
teaching and learning decisions, and they need the funding to 
reopen schools in the right way.
    That is why the NEA supports the Heroes Act because it 
includes $902 billion in direct relief for State and local 
governments and $900 billion in additional revenue for 
education.
    We thank the House for boldly taking action to pass the 
Heroes Act, and we call on Mitch McConnell and the Senate to 
demonstrate they care about the education of all students. 
Schools are already planning for the upcoming year, and they 
need that funding now.
    My 30 years of experience makes me think and believe that 
we can learn from this moment, that we can finally provide the 
resources and support so every one of our students has access 
and opportunity. NEA members are an optimistic bunch. As 
educators it is our job requirement.
    We know we can address the challenges not only of COVID-19 
but we can and we must address the equity challenges that have 
plagued our schools forever. We stand ready to work with our 
members and to bring about the new day our students deserve.
    Thank you.
    [The statement of Ms. Pringle follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    Mr. Johnson.

      STATEMENT OF MARK JOHNSON, SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC 
 INSTRUCTION, NORTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, 
                          RALEIGH, NC

    Mr. Johnson. Good afternoon, Chairman Scott, Ranking Member 
Foxx, and members of the Committee.
    I am State Superintendent Mark Johnson. It is my honor and 
privilege to serve the students, educators, and citizens of 
North Carolina. Thank you for the opportunity to take part in 
this hearing today, and thank you all for your swift, 
bipartisan efforts to enact the CARES Act in order to use 
Federal taxpayer dollars to support our citizens, our 
communities, and our schools during this unprecedented 
pandemic.
    Together we have faced the unbelievable challenges of 
COVID-19. This virus has threatened our health, our economy, 
our students' education, and even our way of life. Students, 
educators, parents, and caretakers across North Carolina and 
the Nation have made difficult sacrifices to confront this 
crisis, and it has shown that we have the resilience to 
overcome it. States ensure that child nutrition services 
continued, which meant keeping our meal services available no 
matter the obstacle. Schools kept cafeterias open, creating 
grab-and-go locations, and even delivered meals using school 
busses and the mail. In North Carolina, we have served over 30 
million meals during this crisis.
    States also led the switch to remote learning practically 
overnight. North Carolina is a leader in digital education 
strategies, but even as advanced and fortunate as we are, no 
State was ready for the switch from 0 percent remote learning 
to 100 percent remote learning over a weekend.
    Teachers and school leaders connected students where they 
could, and if they couldn't, assignments were delivered by 
school bus, over the phone, and even through the United States 
Postal Service. Now we are able to switch from being reactive 
to being proactive, and the challenges we will face going into 
next school year will actually put on full display the 
resilience of students, parents, and educators. We should all 
be focused not just on coming back strong, but coming out of 
this pandemic stronger.
    Thank you for helping those students of North Carolina with 
Federal taxpayer funds. We will use these funds to protect the 
health and safety of students and educators, and we will also 
use these funds to help innovate and spread strategies and 
tools that will truly help every child work hard in school and 
reach their American dream.
    For example, we are investing in technology, strong digital 
curriculum options, and professional development for teachers. 
Even before this unparalleled moment in our history, North 
Carolina was making the monumental shift in education to 
empower teachers with tools that support personalized learning 
for all students.
    Now this innovation is more important than ever. We are 
going to see a significant loss of learning as a result of this 
crisis. When students return in the fall, we will need to help 
all students catch up; but we don't have to do that with one 
size fits all strategy. The technology in curriculum options we 
are purchasing can also help teachers more easily meet students 
at their abilities and help students catch up at their own 
pace.
    Make no mistake, teachers have been working hard for 
decades to individualize education for students, and this is 
not the remote learning that we have endured the past few 
months. The technology we are pushing for North Carolina will 
be another tool for teachers to help students.
    Our youngest students can use this technology to catch up 
on their reading skills that they need to be successful for the 
rest of school and in life, and our older students can use this 
technology to discover the pathways to success that they decide 
work best for them, whether that is a high-valued credential, 
military service, or a degree from a community college or a 4-
year institution.
    The challenges facing us next school year are enormous, but 
we must also use this moment to reach every single student with 
resources and strategies that help them work hard in school and 
succeed.
    In North Carolina we have a State toast. We say that our 
State is where the weak grow strong and the strong grow great. 
Our Nation is enduring and rising above unprecedented 
challenges. We are strong. Let's grow great.
    Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Johnson follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    And Mr. Gordon.

 STATEMENT OF ERIC GORDON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLEVELAND 
          METROPOLITAN SCHOOL DISTRICT, CLEVELAND, OH

    Mr. Gordon. Good afternoon, Chairman Scott, Ranking Member 
Foxx, and Members of the Education and Labor Committee.
    My name is Eric Gordon. I am the Chief Executive Officer of 
the Cleveland Metropolitan School District in Cleveland, Ohio. 
I am also proud to serve as the co-chair of the Ohio Urban 8 
Coalition and as Chair of the Council of the Great Cities 
Schools. The Cleveland Metropolitan School District is the 
second largest school district in Ohio with an enrollment of 
nearly 38,000 students.
    With over 42 percent of our children living below the 
poverty line, Cleveland has the highest child poverty rate of 
any major city in the country. With a median household income 
of just over $26,000, Cleveland residents often lack basic 
necessities considered essential to today's America.
    Our school community is 86 percent children of color. Over 
17 percent of our students are English language learners, and 
nearly a quarter of our students are identified for special 
education services. Nearly 5 percent of our students, over 
1,900 students, are homeless on any given day.
    Despite these and other inequities, CMSD has gone from 
being the worst performing school district in Ohio to becoming 
one of Ohio's fastest improving school districts. On March 13, 
Ohio Governor Mike DeWine ordered the necessary closing of Ohio 
schools due to the COVID-19 public health emergency. This had a 
significant impact on students across Ohio.
    While my peers in more affluent districts in Ohio focused 
on switching from classroom to online instruction, the reality 
is that more than 40 percent of our families had no reliable 
access to high-speed internet in their homes and that 68 
percent of our families had no device other than a Smartphone 
to even access that internet.
    So CMSD operated 22 grab-and-go meal sites. We also 
established homework hotlines, delivered content that could be 
accessed by cellphone, like posting lessons on Instagram, 
created weekly grade level learning packages, along with 
supplemental packages to support students with disabilities, 
and English language learners, and to support social and 
emotional health which we then mailed to each child's home.
    We created lessons broadcasts on local TV stations and 
established social emotional health hotlines for those who were 
experiencing high stress, feelings of isolation, or signs of 
neglect.
    Over the shutdown period, we froze spending across the 
district to direct all available funds towards the purchase and 
distribution of over 9,000 hot spots with a 1-year subscription 
to the internet and over 16,000 devices. Those devices and hot 
spots which are now in place and will remain distributed 
throughout the summer ensure that my families are now able to 
apply for unemployment, apply for jobs, to access medical care 
through telehealth and to access other essential supports 
afforded to most Americans.
    The inequities my families faced during this public health 
emergency have existed in Cleveland and in communities across 
the country for decades, and it is important to note that these 
inequities are most acute in communities of color.
    Addressing these needs and preparing to return to school to 
both address nine weeks of lost learning and to create a more 
fair, just, and good system of personalized mastery learning 
must also be done within the context of the looming budget 
crisis brought on by the economic recession.
    In my district, we are facing the very real threat of 
losing up to $127 million in State and local revenue in the 
year ahead. That is nearly 25 percent of my district's net 
operating budget.
    If this worst case scenario were to occur, I will have no 
choice but to make deep devastating cuts to my district this 
winter and implement those cuts for the second semester of the 
school year, essentially wiping out the 10 years of growth my 
team and I have generated in Cleveland. I have already received 
a $5.6 million budget cut from the State of Ohio.
    I urge Congress to provide the necessary resources to keep 
our Nation's school districts intact during the economic crisis 
that arose from this public health emergency. While this 
includes resources contemplated in the Heroes Act and future 
Stimulus and Stabilization Acts, this would also include 
additional resources in the years ahead to ensure adequate 
funding for America's most vulnerable children.
    Including Title I, A, disadvantaged and at-risk youth; 
Title I, D for children who have been the victims of neglect; 
Title III for immigrant children; IDEA Part B for students with 
learning disabilities; and the McKinney-Vento Act for homeless 
and foster youth as school districts like mine work to recover 
the learning time that was lost for the most fragile among our 
youth.
    Chairman Scott, Ranking Member Foxx, and members of the 
Education and Labor Committee, on behalf of the 38,000 students 
of the Cleveland Metropolitan School District who I have the 
privilege of serving, along with the 192,000 students of the 
Ohio Urban 8 Coalition, and the 8.2 million students of the 
Council of the Great Cities Schools, thank you for letting me 
be with you today.
    Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Gordon follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairman Scott. Thank you. And I thank all of our witnesses 
for your testimony.
    And now we will begin with questions.
    I will go last and start with the gentlelady from 
California, Mrs. Davis.
    Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you to our witnesses. I know all of you feel so 
strongly about what we are about to face here. It is really 
going to be as great a crisis as our schools have experienced, 
and I think the numbers show that.
    I wonder--you know, we all maybe need to take our own test 
now and then, and I wonder if you could respond. I mean, is it 
possible for us to open the schools if we cannot avoid 
personnel cuts, if we cannot avoid layoffs of teachers?
    Is it possible for us to open up our schools if we cannot 
compensate for learning loss, obviously, particularly in 
reading and math? And is it possible for us to open our schools 
if we cannot keep our students safe?
    Now, if we are struggling with answering those questions, 
then we really have a very difficult decision to make with, as 
you have all expressed, I believe, that the increased costs 
that we are going to be seeing range somewhere, I think, in 20 
percent, at least they certainly do for California and for San 
Diego City schools.
    So I guess the question then is, if that is true and we are 
not able to reach a level where we are comfortable with any of 
those major three issues, what do we do? Where is it that we 
are going to be able to at least reach an appropriate level of 
service if we can't do that?
    I wonder--perhaps, Mr. Gordon, you were just speaking, 
where do you go from there? And I want you to address, as you 
have done, the learning loss particularly for our most 
vulnerable students. If we can't provide the basics for each 
and every student in our school, how are we going to be able to 
do that? And does that mean having more students coming into 
school in those areas, longer time in school? What is it--what 
are you thinking about in Cleveland?
    Mr. Gordon. Thank you to the Chairman. To the 
Congresswoman, thank you for the question.
    As I provided in my written testimony, I think that this is 
both a crisis to face but an opportunity in education to really 
reinvent our systems of delivery of learning. And much like my 
colleague, Mr. Johnson, I am an advocate for moving to a very 
much personalized learning that is driven by mastery of content 
and not simply seat time.
    In Ohio, we are not likely going to be able to bring all 
children back at exactly the same time for the whole school day 
because of the very strict public health guidance we have seen 
so far. So this means we are going to have to have multiple 
scenarios of who we can bring back and for how much time, and 
school districts are talking about things like A days and B 
days where we split classes in half, or a.m.-p.m. kinds of 
shifts, Monday-Tuesday class, meeting Wednesday, Thursday-
Friday class. I am challenging my team to think even more 
nimbly and ask ourselves the question who are those children 
who need the most direct time with teachers? That would be 
students with disabilities, English learners, younger children, 
perhaps our foster and homeless.
    And then who can be more self-sufficient in a proactive, 
high-quality learning environment that can be partially remote? 
That does require keeping our personnel intact. If I have to 
sustain a quarter of my budget cut, that will necessarily 
result in huge layoffs like we experienced in 2010 where we 
closed 23 school buildings and laid off 700 teachers all in a 
single moment.
    And so, you know, we do--will we open? We have to. But will 
it be a high-quality learning system? That will be dependent 
upon whether we are able to keep educators intact.
    Mrs. Davis. Thank you. I believe my time is up.
    Thank you.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    Dr. Foxx, do you want to go now?
    Ms. Foxx. Yes, sir. I will go ahead and ask my questions 
now.
    Chairman Scott. The gentlelady, the ranking member is 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Superintendent Johnson, you spoke in your testimony about 
some of the ways CARES Act money is being spent or that you 
expect CARES Act money to be spent. What is the status of the 
CARES Act money in North Carolina?
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Representative Foxx.
    The CARES Act funding in North Carolina, as you know, came 
through multiple sources. The $95 million that is in the hands 
of the Governor, there has been no decision yet by the Governor 
on how that will support education.
    The schools that will receive a pot of about $400 million, 
the North Carolina State Board of Education has decided to hold 
back the maximum amount, $40 million, to address equity issues 
across North Carolina, but that has not been determined yet 
what exactly that money will be used for.
    The $350, roughly, million that have been left after that 
for schools, that has now--all the application process has been 
done, but school districts have not started drawing down on 
that money yet. And, of course, there is the large sum that 
went to the North Carolina General Assembly and Governor. They 
have dedicated $230 million of those funds to address summer 
learning loss, help with connectivity, and device purchases. 
But, again, we have not spent that money yet.
    There was also on top of that, at the very beginning of 
this crisis, $50 million from State funds that was repurposed 
for school districts to address the reactive measures of the 
crisis, and we have not yet spent all of those funds yet 
either. So we are in a very proactive phase right now with our 
schools in North Carolina.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Superintendent Johnson.
    I can't imagine anyone in your shoes would turn down more 
Federal taxpayer funding from America's taxpayers. However, in 
light of the fact that the overwhelming majority of CARES Act 
money has not been spent, is now the right time to spend 
billions more in taxpayer funds and what steps do you think are 
needed before those decisions are made and what factors should 
Congress consider before determining if another round of aid is 
needed?
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Representative Foxx.
    I would say, as a citizen and educator, that it is 
important for Congress to balance the fact that there is a lot 
of debt being taken out, but also there are a lot of needs out 
there across the Nation.
    I would encourage Congress to work with the State chief 
officers. In North Carolina, we are still waiting on what the 
plan will be for reentering school. Our Governor has set out 
potential plans, but we have not made a firm decision on 
whether or not we are going to have students back in school or 
remote learning. The metrics aren't going in the right 
direction in North Carolina.
    Also, we don't have a State budget yet. So while we are 
concerned about budget cuts, just like everyone else, we do not 
know exactly what those details will be just yet. And as 
mentioned earlier, we are being very proactive. We are very 
fortunate we are not being reactive with our CARES Act funding.
    I would definitely encourage Congress to see where that 
money is spent in North Carolina, as I discussed in my opening 
testimony, focus on, of course, the health and safety of 
students but also using this moment, this opportunity, to 
transform how we meet every student at their ability level and 
help them proceed and excel at their own pace.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you.
    One more question, Superintendent Johnson. There has been 
concern expressed from some about the Federal Department of 
Education's interpretation of the CARES Act equitable services 
provision. Without getting into the weeds of this debate, do 
you believe that each education sector, traditional public 
schools, charter schools, and private schools, deserve 
equitable support and why?
    Mr. Johnson. The short answer would be yes. This is an 
unprecedented crisis that is affecting everyone, and Congress 
actually took those steps with the stimulus check. People who 
lost their jobs and needed help paying bills, they got a 
stimulus check; but also we had people who retired and didn't 
have income, they got a stimulus check as well.
    I think it is important that, you know, if Congress wants 
to help every citizen, that is what they do. Not to get into 
the weeds of the debate, but it is Congress' job to be in 
charge of the purse strings, and I encourage the General 
Assembly, our legislative branch in North Carolina, to be clear 
on their intent and really be sure that they direct where they 
want the funding to go and not delegate too much power to the 
administrative branches.
    Ms. Foxx. Well, thank you.
    I am going to end with a comment, not exactly a direct 
question to you; but if you agree with me, I would appreciate, 
or disagree, you can say.
    I am a student of the Constitution, and I have read it 
many, many times, and I fail to find the word ``education'' in 
there. Can you show me if you found that as a reason to--a 
responsibility of the Federal Government?
    Mr. Johnson. Educators all over the Nation appreciate any 
funding that comes from the Federal Government; but we also 
appreciate not putting a lot of strings attached to it. So we 
appreciate the funding that comes.
    It is in our Constitution in North Carolina; but you are 
correct, I don't believe it is in the Constitution for the 
United States.
    But we appreciate the support. Thank you.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    Mr. Grijalva.
    Mr. Grijalva. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    A couple of questions for Dr. Leachman; but a couple of 
things. You know, I think we are in a situation now that is 
unprecedented, and the threat to the future of public education 
is real, it is severe, and it is upon us.
    And it is not a question of throwing money at a problem, 
and it is not a question of long-held assumptions being the 
rule of the day. But I think it is important that as we go 
forward talking about the Heroes Act and talking about the 
support that is needed at a State level but in particular with 
our public schools that we recognize that there is a legacy, a 
systemic legacy, preexisting conditions in public education, 
and those conditions revolve around the issue of inequity.
    They revolve around the issue of income and the 
manifestations of those have been kids with disabilities, 
English learners, poor kids, digital divide, facilities 
conditions, class size, and the list goes on.
    And I mention that because I think that the pandemic and 
the response to the pandemic has exposed that even more so in 
front of us, and so I think the role of the government is 
twofold.
    To respond to this pandemic and to supplement both the 
public school systems and public education in our country so 
that the issue, the inequities that we know are there that are 
being agreed as we talk don't become the permanent legacy of 
this pandemic, both the inequities becoming permanent and the 
efforts to try to do something about them. So, you know, that 
is a priority. It should be a priority for this Committee to 
make sure that all kids get that.
    Mr. Leachman, one of the things, you know, is that all 
States do things differently, you know, and not all States are 
proponents of public education in terms of their 
administration, so whoever happens to be the governor.
    But given that, and given the fact that, you know, can the 
States afford regardless for the Federal Government to take 
kind of a-wait-and-see approach to State and local fiscal 
relief and the urgency for that Federal relief, why is it a 
priority? And try to give your comments on that question.
    Mr. Leachman. Thank you, Congressman.
    No, I think it is really--this is very urgent that Congress 
act. States already are starting to cut their education 
budgets.
    In Georgia they have--already the Governor and legislative 
leadership have called for substantial cuts across the board 
for the upcoming fiscal year, which starts July 1, in just a 
couple of weeks.
    In Ohio the governor has asked for agencies to submit 20 
percent cut budgets and has already implemented cuts from the 
current fiscal year.
    States and localities have already furloughed or laid off 
about 1.5 million workers. And with their fiscal year beginning 
very soon, States are going to be making decisions that will 
result in teachers and other education workers being laid off 
at just the wrong time, when--it is never a good time, but when 
the economy is especially weak, the last thing we want is more 
layoffs.
    So, in addition, to the impact on schools and kids, there 
is a full affect on the economy at a very important time.
    Mr. Grijalva. Arizona is now one of the top States, if not 
the top State, in terms of the uptick in mortality, infection, 
and spread of the pandemic. And in the middle of this, our 
Governor is saying that the schools will be open in a month or 
less.
    And the cost attendant to doing that right and protecting 
kids and staff, as you mentioned, that is not included in the 
overall need that schools are going to have in order to at 
least be held harmless for the coming school year, financially 
speaking.
    So any response to that?
    Mr. Leachman. Congressman, that is an excellent point.
    The revenue loss here that States are experiencing is 
unprecedented. It is an extraordinary fiscal crisis, and then 
on top of that, we have schools having to deal with substantial 
new costs to try to open safely.
    Mr. Grijalva. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Let's see. The gentleman from 
Tennessee, Dr. Roe?
    The gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Thompson?
    Mr. Thompson. Chairman, thank you so much. Chairman and 
Republican Leader Foxx, I really appreciate this. This is a 
movement towards getting--truly getting back to work and 
performing our duties and responsibilities. The needs of the 
Nation didn't stop, and they don't stop because of any pandemic 
or crisis or emergency. In fact, it probably intensifies the 
need for our work thanks to the members of the panel.
    Superintendent Johnson, I want to thank you for making time 
today to join us today at the hearing. The spread of COVID-19 
has caused significant disruption to educators and students 
across the country. We all know that. An estimated 124,000 
public and private schools closed this spring, including more 
than 3,000 schools in my home State, the commonwealth of 
Pennsylvania.
    Due to this pandemic, Congress responded swiftly, enacted 
the CARES Act, which delivered more than $13 billion dollars in 
formally funding directly to States and school districts to 
help--yep? I went down? I don't know. No, I am still there. 
Thanks, Greg.
    --in formally funding directly to States and school 
districts to help students respond to the coronavirus-related 
needs. I represent Pennsylvania's 15th Congressional District. 
It covers 14 counties and nearly 25 percent of the land mass in 
Pennsylvania. During the outbreak, the number one issue I 
continually heard from my school districts, a very rural 
district in nature obviously, is a lack of broadband and 
technology access.
    Now, these school districts have been creative on how they 
address these connectivity issues, like setting up drive-by Wi-
Fi hotspots near school parking lots, and quite frankly, local 
libraries, different places. However, the need for improved 
broadband service to these areas is absolutely long overdue.
    According to the census data, roughly 15 percent of the 
U.S. households with school-age children do not have high-speed 
internet connection at home. Either don't have it at all, or 
quite frankly, it is even larger than that. They don't have 
sufficient broadband to support the online learning platforms. 
And that number is much higher in my district because I work 
with all of my school districts throughout this time. It is 
unacceptable.
    So Mr. Johnson, in your testimony, you touched briefly on 
this. Is North Carolina experiencing similar issues with access 
to broadband technology, and if so, how are your school 
districts addressing the problem?
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you Representative.
    Yes, I believe every State is facing this same issue right 
now, including North Carolina. We were actually the first State 
in the Nation to connect every single classroom to high speed, 
wireless internet, which is a monumental task and a truly 
amazing accomplishment for our education system. But that does 
not help when students in rural North Carolina or students in 
urban North Carolina don't have that broadband connection.
    We have immediately addressed this by making sure that we 
put money into hotspot devices and innovations that will help 
get wireless internet to students in rural communities. We 
also--we use school buses to get assignments, the phone, mail. 
But this is absolutely something that we would appreciate 
Congress very much helping with and looking at, how do we make 
sure that we innovate and get that broadband access to every 
student. Because we hope to be back in schools in North 
Carolina, but there is the chance that we will be back in 
remote learning like other States.
    Mr. Thompson. Right. Well, I would just comment briefly and 
then to a quick question. My comment is on, I am just so 
appreciative of USDA and what they have done with the, you 
know, providing flexibility and waivers to our National School 
Lunch Program. I have participated personally with that, with 
the distribution of meals, and you know--and the team work and 
the collaboration between the community and the schools.
    My final question though for you, Mr. Johnson, as I talked 
with my school districts, as early--as late as this morning on 
a county advisory committee meetings that I routinely have as 
school board member, the issues most of our schools are looking 
at are the transportation costs, you know, if there is 
implications given for social distancing, you know, especially 
in rural areas, they would have a tremendous amount of 
transportation.
    And North Carolina is a lot--geographically a lot like 
Pennsylvania. Any quick thoughts on what you are anticipating 
in terms of transportation challenges come fall?
    Mr. Johnson. It will absolutely be a challenge if social 
distancing is required in our schools. Again, our governor has 
set out three different plans. We hope to be under the plan 
that allows us to get as many students back as safely as 
possible, but if we are required to have 50 percent capacity on 
school buses and social distancing on school buses, we will be 
in the same situation. It will be very difficult.
    We will probably come to look for more waivers and more 
help when it comes to getting more buses on the road to run 
more routes, or as has been mentioned, the very difficult 
reality of, we might switch to A days and B days and actually 
have to have some students stay at home one day while other 
students go to school and then they switch, but we know that is 
going to be a huge challenge for our communities as well.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you, Chairman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    The gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Courtney?
    Mr. Courtney. Great. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman and to 
the witnesses for, you know, this hearing today which is really 
extremely urgent. And I am actually speaking to you from 
Norwich, Connecticut, where my district office is. It is a 
community of about 42,000 people. A couple of nights ago, the 
Board of Education just voted to eliminate 45 positions in the 
K-through-12 system, which again is a huge hit in terms of just 
the size of the workforce there. Again, it is a relatively 
small community.
    And the superintendent, when they were talking about her, 
she was quoted in the paper saying, at the end of the day, this 
is about revenue and the lack thereof, which is, again, 
precisely the problem which the coronavirus recession has 
created.
    By the way, Connecticut has already distributed the Title 1 
CARES Act funding, and Norwich is a Title 1 area here. Again, 
it was not enough to stop these layoffs. So Ms. Pringle, I just 
wanted to ask you, I mean, we are obviously weeks away from the 
schools reopening, and I know there is a lot of work being done 
about trying to plan for that. Reducing staff is really, isn't 
it the exact opposite of where we should be headed if we are 
trying to reduce class size and accommodate social distancing 
which CDC and all the public health officials are advising? Is 
that correct?
    Is she still there?
    Ms. Pringle. You know, I have been doing enough of these 
virtual calls and I know to unmute, but--thank you so much, 
Congressman Courtney, for that question.
    I actually got a chance to talk with quite a few of your 
educators there in Connecticut last week, and you are 
absolutely correct. Without that additional funding, we know 
that other school districts, like the one you just talked 
about, will absolutely have to lay off hundreds and hundreds of 
educators.
    Teachers, our support staff who nurture our students, bus 
drivers, we just heard that we will need more of those. We know 
that we cannot open our schools safely without these additional 
funds.
    So imagine that we are sending our students back to school, 
and we are all saying that we want them to go back safely, but 
we are cutting--already have cut over 500,000 education jobs. 
And more are coming. Because we know that our States will be 
suffering, and we have already been down this road before. In 
2008, what got cut first? Education. Education jobs, services 
for our students. Our students with special needs, in 
particular, need that additional assistance.
    So for us to think that we are going to send our students 
back to school safely and provide them with the quality 
education that we believe they all deserve, we know that cannot 
happen. So we need the Senate to act right now. You know, I 
heard others say that, you know, some districts haven't started 
spending the money yet. Well, I would ask questions about why 
that didn't happen. I am so glad to hear you talk about yours, 
saying that we are already putting that money to good use.
    Our educators are planning right now, as they should. We 
always do. By the time we are finishing school, we are starting 
to plan for the next year, before we even leave school. In 
June, usually. So they are already making plans.
    If we know that we are going to aim to have our students 
come back to school safely, we have to change a lot of things. 
And so we are having those conversations right now.
    If we don't know the amount of money that we are going to 
get to open our schools safely, if we don't know the changes we 
are going to have to make, or how we are going to provide the 
PPE for our students and our educators, then we can't do the 
kind of planning that is absolutely necessary so our students 
have what they need and what they deserve.
    Mr. Courtney. Well, thank you for that answer because the 
wait-and-see sort of approach which we have heard articulated 
here today and seems to still be in the Senate, obviously, you 
know, the opening of schools is happening really right now in 
terms of certainly the planning.
    Mr. Leachman, real quick, the HEROES Act provided local 
aid, as well as State assistance, and again it targeted about 
half of that locally to communities of 50,000 or less, which 
normally kind of--it gets to the end--they get, kind of, pushed 
to the end of the buffet line. I mean, those communities in 
particular because they have no commercial tax space in most 
instances, they really need to get this direct assistance, and 
as Ms. Pringle said, sooner rather than later. Isn't that 
correct?
    Mr. Leachman. Yes, absolutely. States depend heavily on 
income and sales taxes, so their revenues have fallen off the 
table. But many localities depend heavily on sales taxes as 
well, and of course with--they are having similar kind of 
effects in that regard. So I share your concern for those 
communities as well.
    Mr. Courtney. Great. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, this morning's Washington Post had an 
article, Ripple Effects of Downturn Show Pandemic's Early 
Economic Toll Was Just the Beginning, by David Lynch. I would 
ask to submit it into the record, which again sort of just 
shows how we are really at the beginning of the ripple effect, 
and that is why we got to get it out there.
    With that, I yield back.
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    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    The gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Walberg?
    The gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Walberg?
    The gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Guthrie?
    Mr. Guthrie. Okay. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair. You got that--okay, thanks so much.
    Just a couple of questions, and I think we are kind of 
hitting the same themes because they are kind of equivalent of 
what everybody else, I think, we could say maybe across the 
aisle on both sides that we are all concerned about the same 
things. And one is what we call the summer loss.
    I remember I was in grad school. I attended a talk or a 
presentation on education by a gentleman named Benno Schmidt, 
who had been President of Yale. I remember it striking me that 
he said that one of the correlation studies they have is the 
length of the summer--the length of the summer in terms of 
student performance. And essentially in Kentucky, and I think 
across most of the country, we have essentially had students 
out since spring break. So we have kind of added to that.
    And so it gets to two things. One, to Mr. Johnson--and I 
think, Mr. Gordon, I would be interested in hearing you as 
well--is the quality of the time that you have had since you 
have gone online or since kids have been out of school, how are 
you able to maintain or try to understand the quality of that?
    And number two is, I am also on Energy and Commerce, and we 
are looking at broadband deployment, and one is getting 
broadband to the homes. I have a--one of my county executive's 
number one priority was getting broadband into his rural 
county, Hancock County, in order to be able to have access. But 
I know Mr. Gordon talked earlier--and I appreciate your 
presentation--on a city like Cleveland that probably has ample 
broadband, but it is not just getting the pipeline to the home, 
it is getting the device in the home where people can have 
delivery.
    So Mr. Johnson, if you would go first about your concern 
about the length of the summer and the quality, does school 
essentially end? I know that people were set on doing online 
classrooms after schools were shut down.
    How did you manage the quality of education up until now? 
And then access to, as you go forward, because even if you 
don't open in the fall, you are not going to have broadband 
there at that exact moment, and exact time. How are you going 
to manage that moving forward? So Mr. Johnson and Mr. Gordon, I 
would be interested in your perspective. Thanks.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Representative. I will be brief to 
allow time for my colleague as well. It was extremely 
challenging to go to remote learning, and teachers have been 
amazing in stepping up and making sure they were doing 
everything they could for their students. My daughter is a 
first grader, now a rising second grader. So we are very 
fortunate. We had broadband, we had the device, but even for 
families that were well connected, this was still a struggle. 
And that doesn't even start for families that were not 
connected, didn't have the device, very challenging.
    Teachers have done an amazing job, and what we will be 
doing is making sure that when we come back to school in the 
fall, whatever that is, we will be doing some formative 
diagnostic assessments of students to see how much learning 
they did lose, and then meet them at their ability levels.
    When it comes to connecting the broadband, that is a 
challenge that every State and our Nation should take on. And, 
yes, we can put on some bandaids of hotspots, been putting 
wireless internet on school buses and driving out to rural 
North Carolina. That is helping, but it still makes it--it is 
still very difficult.
    So we would encourage any help and thoughts you all have 
around that, and I know that is a concern for many education 
chiefs across the Nation. Thank you.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you.
    Mr. Gordon, just the quality of your final half a semester 
and then how you are managing broadband going into the fall--or 
access going into the fall.
    Mr. Gordon. Thank you to the chairman, to the Congressman. 
Thank you for the question. We know, because we surveyed our 
students from grades 3 through 12, and their parents, as well 
as our educators, that the quality was directly related to 
whether they had high speed, reliable internet in their home. 
Our students told us that those who had routine access were 
more effective in completing their work. They were more 
confident that they could complete their work. They were more 
focused. They spent more of the day in learning, they were less 
bored, and they were happier. So we know that there is a direct 
line.
    Our educators also were able to share that kids who did not 
have those, despite all of the things we outlined in our 
written testimony, just weren't getting the same learning 
experience. We are--and again in my written testimony I have 
outlined this--we are working over the next year to create a 
nonprofit that exists here in Cleveland to deliver high speed, 
reliable internet to every family. And the district is going to 
be the customer for the time that they are a member of the 
district, so that we can get around hurdles like bad credit or 
other things that prevent families from accessing it.
    And then like my colleague, we are going to assess where 
students are and use this opportunity to be much more 
personalized and get away from old constraints like Gregorian 
calendars or formal grade 2, grade 3, as opposed to multi-age 
group of where children actually are in their learning.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you very much. I appreciate you guys' 
responses and being here today. I appreciate it very much.
    Thank you and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentle lady from Ohio, Ms. 
Fudge? Oops.
    The gentle lady from Ohio, Ms. Fudge?
    The gentleman from Northern Mariana Islands, Mr. Sablan?
    Mr. Sablan. Well, yeah, good morning, Mr. Chairman. Thank 
you very much for holding this hearing, and thank you to our 
witnesses for their testimonies. The Government Accountability 
Office recently released a report on the state of public 
schools--public school units in the country.
    Unfortunately, it confirmed that high poverty school 
districts like mine, and across the country, face challenges 
funding new school buildings or maintaining existing ones.
    A 2013 report by the Army Corps of Engineers found $177 
million in deferred maintenance needs in schools in the 
Northern Marianas and other insular areas. The conditions of 
school campuses and facilities from the Nation is a matter that 
will be examined--that will be examined further in a full 
committee member briefing I will be leading later this month in 
my capacity as chairman of the subcommittee on early childhood, 
elementary, and secondary education.
    So Mr. Gordon, if I may, given the State of Ohio's budget 
cuts and Cleveland's local levy prospects, how confident do you 
feel about your city's ability to keep up with healthy schools 
for students in the coming years?
    Mr. Gordon. Thank you to the chairman, to the Congressman, 
for that question. We are in the midst of a school 
reconstruction project here in the city that has been going on 
for the past 20 years, because in Ohio, the buildings have been 
built in the 1960s and 1970s and then not maintained because of 
budget constraints.
    We get a large portion of those resources from the State of 
Ohio's capital budget, which we now believe the capital dollars 
will likely need to be diverted to other priorities and that 
school construction could be halted for the immediate future. I 
have actually found myself in the difficult space of advocating 
that the capital budget be used for the internet, 
infrastructure problem in rural and urban Ohio, at the expense 
of school construction, and have even signaled to our community 
that we may pause the new buildings that were expected to start 
our construction this fall.
    Mr. Sablan. Thank you, Mr. Gordon. I don't mean to cut you 
off, but I have a--it is a decent area where Federal funding 
such as is proposed by our Rebuild America's Schools Act, the 
RAS Act, would help?
    Mr. Gordon. Yes, sir, those acts would be very helpful for 
school districts like mine and across the country.
    Mr. Sablan. Okay. I have other questions that I will submit 
for the record, but I will continue. I have another question. 
Mr. Gordon, you said that many children in your district lack 
home internet access, so some students participated remote 
learning online while others use paper packets. Can you 
describe the impact this will have on achievement gaps, 
specifically for students with disabilities, students with 
economic challenges, and students of color impacted by the 
subpar educational experience?
    Mr. Gordon. So my community is 100 percent poverty, 86 
percent children of color, and over a quarter of our students 
are on an IEP, both because there is a lead health crisis in 
Cleveland and because of lack of resources in charter and 
voucher schools for students with disabilities. So students who 
already face gaps brought on by race and class in this city as 
one of the most segregated cities in the country are only going 
to be magnified by those 9 weeks' learning loss.
    And when we compare them to their suburban peers--and 
again, using our own student data--as ineffective as online 
learning was, in every experience, it was still far more 
effective as reported by students and parents and teachers than 
the kinds of tools we were forced to use--mailing packages and 
those sorts of things.
    We can't fully know the gap until the kids are back with 
us. I can guarantee you without seeing the data, it is going to 
be magnified.
    Mr. Sablan. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, we are also using 
the ACT learning system, but the CARES Act provided $13 billion 
in Federal emergency relief for K-through-12 education. As 
Chairman Scott knows, I advocated early on that there should be 
language to limit the governor--our governors issue. Like in 
our example, the governor had 4, almost $5 million of money he 
could have given to our K-through-12 education. While our 
community college needed $1 million, the governor decided to 
give the community college the entire almost $5 million. They 
were happy, of course. They never asked for that money. They 
were very happy.
    So let me ask Ms. Pringle at this time, looking at where we 
are today, how far will the CARES Act funding, which the 
Learning Policy Institute indicates is less than $300 per 
student, will the student--go with helping students in your 
district? Or actually, Mr. Gordon, go ahead and answer that.
    Mr. Gordon. So Cleveland's portion of the CARES Act direct 
funding is between $24- and $26 million, depending on whether 
Ohio chooses to follow the law or the guidance from the 
Department, and Ohio has not yet made that decision.
    Of that $24 million, we have already had $15 million in 
unplanned expenses and a $5.6 million State budget cut, so 
essentially $20.6 million has been spent. We are able to start 
drawing down those dollars today, so they are finally arriving 
in our district.
    Our governors have not made a decision about the balance. 
Although we are advocating for internet and for children with 
disability to get a compensatory--
    Mr. Sablan. Mr. Gordon, my time is up, but in my district, 
we had over 500 teachers furloughed, and now an additional 40 
support staff have been furloughed also.
    Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I am sorry. I yield 
back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman from Alabama, Mr. 
Byrne?
    Mr. Byrne. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the 
opportunity for you to bring us all together to talk about this 
very important topic. I was worried about this from the get-go, 
because I knew when we--
    Mr. Walberg. I am out of here.
    Mr. Byrne.--so abruptly ended school and then tried to put 
children in the circumstance where they would learn virtually, 
that none of us were prepared for that. Children weren't, 
teachers weren't, administrators weren't, mom and dads weren't. 
So the thing that bothers me now is that we marched into this 
thing without thinking through, and I am worried we are not 
thinking through what we got to do--
    -- I have used it. I have see it be used very effectively.
    Mr. Byrne. So Mr. Johnson, here is the question I have--we 
can have all the great [Inaudible.]
    Mr. Gordon. The short answer, Mr. Representative, is no, 
and I think you would find broad agreement from all spectrums 
of the political aisle that the best place for students to 
learn is in the classroom with a great, caring teacher. There 
is no replacement for it, and I think that has been magnified 
through this crisis when, again, I compliment the steps that 
North Carolina has taken to be a leader in digital education, 
but even in North Carolina, it is very glaring that we were not 
where we needed to be to switch from zero percent remote 
learning to 100 percent remote learning. And there is 
absolutely no replacement for students being in the classroom.
    And I don't just say that as the State Superintendent. I 
say that as the father of a little girl who just finished her 
first grade year through remote learning. And we know that she 
is going to have learning loss herself because as hard as her 
teachers tried, you could not just get through as much as when 
they are in the classroom. But also it took an emotional toll 
on my daughter, and I won't get into the details, but this has 
been very difficult, especially for our younger students.
    Ms. Foxx. Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman, I need to tell you 
that Mr. Byrne is not being shown as he is speaking and that 
you skipped over Mr. Walberg, unfortunately, because you 
could--he was speaking but you could not hear him.
    And I would ask your indulgence, because Mr. Walberg needs 
to step out, after Mr. Byrne. But we need to get Mr. Byrne on 
the camera. This is the reason we ought to be in this room and 
ought not to be doing these things remotely. This is very 
troubling, so I would ask you to please see what you can do 
about getting Mr. Byrne on.
    Chairman Scott. I have Mr. Byrne on my computer. I see him 
well. His voice went out briefly, but I see him on my computer. 
Is anybody else--can you nod your heads, can you see Mr. Byrne?
    Ms. Foxx. I could not see him.
    Chairman Scott. Okay. Some are seeing him, some are not. He 
is right in the middle of my screen.
    Ms. Foxx. Okay.
    Chairman Scott. Okay.
    Ms. Adams. I am able to see him. I am able to see him, Mr. 
Chair. This is Alma Adams.
    Looking good.
    Chairman Scott. And I called on Mr. Walberg.
    Ms. Foxx. And he answered, but you could not hear him.
    Chairman Scott. Okay. Well, we will move him up on the 
list. If he is in a real crunch, if Ms. Wilson will defer, he 
can go next.
    Ms. Foxx. We would appreciate that.
    Chairman Scott. Have you completed your questions, Mr. 
Byrne?
    I can't--I can't--you are right, we can't hear him.
    Ms. Foxx. Mr. Byrne is coming to my microphone.
    Mr. Sablan. Okay. I am not suggesting anything, but 
remember I had that bad experience. He should hold his mike up 
to his mouth. That works.
    Chairman Scott. If you use Dr. Foxx's mic, I think that 
would be helpful.
    Mr. Byrne. The last comment I wanted to make is this. If we 
can make virtual education work as effectively as in-person 
education, we would only need one teacher for every subject, 
and we just blast out that great teacher to everybody in 
America. But we all know that is not enough. We have got to get 
these kids back in school this fall.
    And I know it is up to the governors, that is not something 
we get to control. But if we think we are going to be able to 
substitute, with virtual education, the quality that these kids 
get when they are actually in school with the teacher, we are 
kidding ourselves.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this. And if Ms. 
Wilson is willing to defer to Mr. Walberg, we would be very 
grateful.
    Chairman Scott. I am going to recognize Ms. Wilson at this 
point. Ms. Wilson?
    Ms. Foxx. We can't hear you.
    Ms. Wilson. Mr. Walberg? Go ahead, Mr. Walberg.
    Chairman Scott. Okay. She has deferred, Mr. Walberg. Thank 
you, Ms. Wilson. The gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Walberg, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you Ms. Wilson.
    Mr. Walberg. I thank the gentle lady. Can you hear me?
    Chairman Scott. Yes.
    Mr. Walberg. Can you hear me now?
    Ms. Foxx. Yes, we can hear you.
    Mr. Walberg. I was asking if Bobby could hear me. I know 
you can hear me in the room. Again, it is a great hearing, but 
the reason we ought to have these hearings here is because of 
this stuff. It is difficult to be passed over because of 
technology, and I know it wasn't your fault.
    I appreciate the fact that we have one of our witnesses 
here today. I appreciate you coming all the way from North 
Carolina to be here. And another reason why we ought to be 
here, we ought to open up our country again. One of the best 
things that can provide education funding is have an economy 
that is going, not shut down.
    So another reason, to get the sales tax revenue, the 
property tax, all of that going, and provide the necessary 
funding for our schools.
    Mr. Johnson, the CARES Act created the Education 
Stabilization Fund, which provided over $30 billion for State 
schools and higher education to respond to the coronavirus. 
More specifically, the CARES Act states that local educational 
agencies may use the funding for purchasing educational 
technology, including hardware, software [Inaudible.] and 
connectivity.
    In April the FCC and the Department of Education announced 
a partnership to promote the use of $16 billion [Inaudible.] 
For the use of remote learning.
    Mr. Johnson, a challenge that certainly exists in my 
district is a lack of broadband access. As co-chair of the 5G 
Caucus, expanding broadband connectivity is something of 
particular interest to me. So three questions I want you to 
discuss as I ask them to you.
    The first is, how has your State utilized CARES Act 
resources to promote distance learning? Secondly, do you have 
best practices you can share with districts looking to better 
utilize technology in their schools? And third, are there any 
additional actions that you think Congress should consider to 
further promote connectivity between students and the 
classroom?
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Representative. I will start again 
with urging Congress to look at the need for broadband access 
across our Nation, not just in my State, but this is an issue 
that all States are facing. We have dedicated a lot of our 
CARES Act funding with the idea of addressing these 
connectivity divides.
    Again, there was a large sum that went to the North 
Carolina General Assembly. They have provided tens of millions 
of dollars for devices for students and teachers. They also 
have provided $70 million of those funds to address summer 
learning loss, and I have encouraged local superintendents that 
if we are in a place where students cannot come back in during 
the summer to have their learning loss addressed, we use that 
funding to buy really high quality, professional development 
for teachers, and digital curriculum options for teachers, and 
devices to help address that summer learning loss remotely.
    Then finally, we are getting out the money from the CARES 
Act that go to the local districts and the schools there. That 
money is about $400 million in North Carolina. We have just 
finished the application process for districts, and 
overwhelmingly districts are telling us that they want to use 
that to buy devices and ensure connectivity for students.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. There has been a lot 
of discussion today about how the Federal Government needs to 
add assistance on top of the money that was allocated in the 
CARES Act. And while there may need be significant needs for 
greater assistance--and we have to look into that--are there 
ways the Federal Government can assist States and school 
districts in other ways? Are there flexibilities in Federal law 
that have not yet been used today that would be useful?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes. Thank you. You have heard a lot today 
about this idea of personalized learning, being able to use 
these new tools to empower teachers to do what they have been 
doing for many, many years, individualizing education for 
students, but to actually be able to do that in a practical, 
easier-to-use way, by using technology and these good digital 
curriculum options.
    Let's look at getting some flexibility from our 
accountability metrics so that we still have the accountability 
we need to ensure students are learning, but it doesn't have to 
be through high stakes, end-of-year testing. Let's start 
looking at a program--we are grateful we are part of an 
innovative assessment pilot put on by the U.S. Department of 
Education.
    Let's maybe put that into overdrive and allow formative 
diagnostics throughout the year, to give us the accountability 
metrics but also help teachers inform their instruction of 
students.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you, and I thank Representative Wilson 
for her help on this problem in allowing me the opportunity to 
ask the questions.
    And I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. And Ms. Wilson will speak in the 
time previously reserved for Mr. Walberg. Ms. Wilson?
    Ms. Wilson. Stay safe, Mr. Walberg.
    I am a strong advocate for public schools, and if a 
district--if our districts don't already have enough to worry 
about, Betsy DeVos' misguided equitable service guidance 
threatens to redirect critical resources away from 
disadvantaged students in schools with high concentration of 
children from low-income families and towards wealthier private 
schools--
    Now, in the midst of a pandemic and the worst economic 
crisis since the Great Depression, she is seeking to strip 
desperately needed emergency funding from public schools, all 
while ignoring longstanding precedent, the intent of Congress, 
and the statutory requirements of the CARES Act.
    I have a question for Ms. Pringle. Can you speak to your 
concerns regarding life outcomes for Black students and 
students with disabilities, such as educational, career, socio, 
emotional, and health outcomes through the combination of the 
COVID-19 pandemic and the possibility of gaping holes in State 
education budgets for several years?
    Ms. Pringle. First of all, I want to say thank you for 
making your comments that you made about Secretary DeVos 
ignoring the intent of Congress, specifically the guidance 
around this Every Student Succeeds Act. We know that money was 
designated to go to public schools, and to try to use it for 
private schools and voucher schemes is unacceptable.
    And we thank you for, in the CARES Act, actually seeking to 
make sure that is limited, that what she is trying to do is 
limited, with the intent of that act. Thank you.
    Absolutely, our students of color, our students with 
special needs already--already--were at a disadvantage because 
of the inequitable system that they have found throughout the 
years have not provided the resources they need, the supports 
they need to learn.
    And we know that this pandemic, just like any other crisis, 
always impacts them first, and it impacts them the most. That 
is why we are coming together, our millions of educators all 
over the country are doing everything they can to push the 
Senate to concur with the actions of the House and provide the 
additional funding that our schools need. Because we absolutely 
know that our students with special needs, as well as our Black 
and Brown students, need that additional assistance with 
equitable funding in their schools.
    We already heard that they are more likely to go to schools 
that are crumbling, that are suffering from poor air quality, 
which will predispose them to getting sick. Already. We need 
those additional funding--that additional funding to improve 
the conditions in our schools. We need that additional funding 
to make sure they have access to high quality educators. We 
need that additional funding to make sure that they have those 
resources and supports, especially now.
    And Congresswoman, I can't thank you enough for raising up 
the emotional challenges that our students are coming back to 
school with. We have the twin pandemics, not only the COVID-19, 
but of the institutional racism in this country.
    Our Black and Brown students are suffering, as they are 
watching these inequities all over this country show up in both 
pandemics. And so we absolutely need to make sure we have 
counselors and enough teachers to address their emotional needs 
when they come back to school.
    Ms. Wilson. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ms. Pringle.
    Dr. Leachman, does that mean my time is up? I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. You have 1 minute left.
    Ms. Wilson. Okay. So Dr. Leachman, can you explain why it 
is important for State leaders to ensure high poverty school 
districts are not disproportionately harmed by the budget cuts? 
And how do we--can we explain how school budgets are set, when 
these decisions are made, or how--why it would benefit States 
and districts to know what Federal support they can rely on?
    Mr. Leachman. Thank you, Congresswoman. Both excellent 
questions. Low-income children and children of color already 
face enormous barriers to success. Cutting funding to their 
often already under resourced schools would just increase those 
already very significant barriers.
    Talking about laying off teachers, counselors, nurses, 
librarians, limiting course offerings, extracurricular 
opportunities, putting off maintenance that needs to be done, 
because of the barriers placed in front of those children 
already, these sorts of cuts would be particularly damaging.
    And then to your question about--I am sorry, Congresswoman, 
can you remind me your second question?
    Ms. Wilson. How can we guide school districts to know that 
this money is coming so that they can--
    Mr. Leachman. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Wilson. --address the budget crisis that they have and 
know that--
    Mr. Leachman. Thank you.
    Ms. Wilson.--give us some information on when are these 
decisions made, why would it benefit States and districts to 
know what Federal support they can rely on--
    Mr. Leachman. Yes.
    Ms. Wilson.--as early as possible, considering the 
timelines they have in making--setting up budgets. It is 
important.
    Mr. Leachman. Thank you. Almost all States start their 
fiscal year on July 1st. They are required to balance their 
budgets. So they need to know soon how much Federal aid they 
are going to get because they have to write those budgets.
    And so they are going to be making decisions about cutting 
funding, which will result in layoffs and other crucial, very 
damaging school cuts, unless they get substantial Federal aid. 
So they need to know if that is coming so that they can avoid 
making those harmful cuts.
    Ms. Wilson. Thank you. Thank you so much. I yield back.
    Mr. Leachman. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. That time was previously 
reserved for Mr. Walberg. So we will go back in regular order, 
and I note the gentle lady from Ohio, Ms. Fudge, has returned. 
Ms. Fudge?
    Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and forgive 
me, I had to take a call, Mr. Chairman, doing the work that 
everybody thinks that we can't do unless we are in Washington. 
It is the work I do every day and all day.
    Welcome to all of our witnesses today, and I especially 
want to welcome CEO Eric Gordon from the Cleveland Municipal 
School District, and my friend, Ms. Pringle, it is nice to see 
you as well.
    Mr. Gordon, in your testimony, you talked about schools 
across the country and how desperately we needed funding. In 
your recent--in your written testimony, you state that 40 
percent of families in Cleveland have no reliable access. What 
additional resources are needed for remote learning to be 
successful in Cleveland?
    Mr. Gordon. Through you the chairman to my congresswoman, 
great to see you, and thank you for the question. We estimate 
that just for Cleveland to be connected alone is $40 million, 
to get the infrastructure in place that would connect the kids 
and families that I serve in the district, and that estimate 
was created through our nonprofit partnership, DigitalC. It is 
the way we are delivering the infrastructure here in the city.
    Ms. Fudge. Thank you. You also mentioned a personalized 
system of learning. Can you just briefly tell me what that 
entails?
    Mr. Gordon. So over the past decade, we have really tried 
to test and push against the system. We have changed calendars 
to year-round schools and longer days. We have moved learning 
into museums, Fortune 500 companies, hospitals. We have 
partnered with, you know, any number of nonprofit groups--glee 
for clee, which is our early childhood efforts, mentorships, 
student-organized learning, and remote content, which can be 
researched, can be using databases, can be using learning 
management platforms.
    And so what we seek to do is to make the mastery of the 
content the goal, which all educators want it to be, and the 
time is one of the resources, as opposed to having 180 days 
dictate that is the amount of learning a child is supposed to 
have, but by using a much more flexible environment of all of 
those different resources, so that students move at the pace 
that they are able.
    And what this would allow us to do is, instead of every 
teacher always having 25 children in a class, some who are 
bored because they could be moving faster, could be working 
more independently, and others that could benefit from having a 
small group setting with their teacher, we can then personalize 
how we assign kids, so that kids who are far behind get more 
personalized attention, and kids who are prepared to excel can 
keep moving.
    Ms. Fudge. Okay, thank you. Mr. Leachman, in your written 
testimony you say, an excellent K12 education for children of 
color is vital for overcoming historical barriers. I couldn't 
agree with you more, and that is the reason why Chairman Scott 
and I introduced the Strength in Diversity Act. And you know 
that act provides grants to schools to improve diversity.
    Mr. Leachman, can you talk through the historical barriers 
to education for students of color?
    Mr. Leachman. Congresswoman, thank you for that question 
and raising this very important issue. It is crucial that we 
all understand the connections between historical racism and 
other--and ongoing forms of discrimination and bias on the 
opportunities that are available to families in the communities 
where these schools are located and on the kids themselves. 
Without understanding that history, it is difficult to devise 
policy that will really be effective in addressing--in creating 
opportunities and creating the kind of educational system that 
all of our children need.
    Doing so would benefit all of us, because having all of 
those kids--helping all of those kids reach their full 
potential and overcoming finally these historical barriers, 
would benefit the economy, would make our community stronger.
    Ms. Fudge. Thank you so much. And I thank you all again for 
testifying. And just to a point that I heard earlier about 
education not being in the Constitution, there are a whole lot 
of things that are in the Constitution that my colleagues don't 
follow. With that, I will yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman from Wisconsin, 
Mr. Grothman?
    Mr. Grothman. Can you hear me now?
    Chairman Scott. I can hear you now.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay, real good. I don't mean to beat a dead 
horse here, but I will just request of my good friend, the 
chairman, that I know next week we are going to be around here 
anyway, I think on Thursday and Friday, and I missed today not 
being able to talk with my Democrat colleagues.
    I like to be all bipartisan, and I wish so much I could 
talk to some Democrats to my left, but I can't. So I would just 
ask you one more time, I wish you would reschedule it for, you 
know, next Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday when so many of us 
are around here anyway.
    Second thing, as far as Mr. Gordon is concerned, he is very 
critical of schools that are 40 years old or older. And when I 
was at the district I went to today, not at the time, I think 
all the schools are over 40 years old, and is a very well 
respected school. Everything in my experience indicates the 
important thing is to have good teachers and good parents, and 
how old the bricks and mortar are is secondary.
    But I will ask Mr. Gordon, who was complaining here--I 
tried to do a little bit of research--compared to the State of 
Ohio as a whole, how much they spend per pupil in the Cleveland 
public schools.
    Mr. Gordon. Through the chair to the congresswoman--the 
Congressman, I am sorry--we spend about $11,000 per pupil.
    Mr. Grothman. And how is that compared to Ohio as a whole?
    Mr. Gordon. I don't know the State average. It is widely 
varied in the State. So for example, a neighboring school 
district charges about $22,000 per child. So it is widely 
varied in the State of Ohio.
    Mr. Grothman. I am under the impression, just looking on 
the internet, that you are getting more than the average in the 
State of Ohio. Do you believe that is not true?
    Mr. Gordon. That is likely true, yes.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay, okay.
    A question for Ms. Pringle. One of the things I was 
thinking about, or one of the lessons we learned over the last 
few weeks from the tragedy of George Floyd--and again this is 
for Ms. Pringle--is that this horrible police officer should 
have been removed earlier. And I think around the country, 
unions are looking at this situation and maybe sometimes 
realizing they have done too much to protect the bad police 
officers. I hear from my school superintendents that until 
Scott Walker changed the rules in Wisconsin, that was a big 
problem for them as well. You know, sometimes, the unions were 
too powerful at protecting bad, bad teachers.
    I know a lot of the--or some of the unions are recognizing 
maybe they protected some bad policemen. Do you regret your 
past stances on maybe protecting too many bad teachers?
    Ms. Pringle. So unions don't protect bad teachers. Unions 
are there to ensure that employees' rights are followed, to 
make sure that we have the opportunity as we have, our members 
of the NEA, whose mission is to not only unite our members but 
the entire Nation to fulfill the promise of public education.
    And it is our unions who are fighting to ensure racial and 
social and education justice. It is our unions who are fighting 
to diversify the teaching force. It is our unions who--
    Mr. Grothman. Can I take it to mean you are not going to 
change your policy?
    Ms. Pringle.--making sure that our students and our schools 
get the resources they need--
    Mr. Grothman. Okay.
    Ms. Pringle.--and deserve.
    Mr. Grothman. I guess I got my answer. I will emphasize, 
teachers are important. And I think, say, a bad second grade 
teacher is particularly harmful to a student who comes from a 
difficult background and--but in any event, now we will switch 
to Mr. Johnson.
    You answered questions before about internet in rural 
areas, but I would like to ask how quickly you are able to 
provide more internet and broadband access to people in rural 
North Carolina, and repeat again exactly how far long you are 
on that process.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you. We are able to do that quickly with 
hotspots and mobile devices on buses. We are closing that gap 
as quickly as possible. We have done that for actual physical 
school buildings. But we are still assessing exactly what that 
gap is and using those funds to close that, along with our 
General Assembly.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. About how--when you talk about access, 
though, at home, percentage wise, how many kids at home have 
broadband internet access in North Carolina, you think?
    Mr. Johnson. Percentage wise, we are looking at about--we 
are doing this by devices. We are looking at a few hundred 
thousand devices would have to get out to students. So the 
percentages, we are better along than other States, but we are 
not where we want to be.
    Mr. Grothman. Like, you know, like percentage wise, where 
are you today, and percentage wise, where were you, say, 5 
years ago?
    Mr. Johnson. I would have to get that specific information 
to you, and I can. We are getting the hotspots out, and that is 
why I would hate to say something right now that is incorrect, 
where we actually are better than we were just 3 months ago, 
based on the hotspots we have done.
    Mr. Grothman. So you are making progress that quickly, 
significant--
    Mr. Johnson. Yes.
    Mr. Grothman.--improvement over the last 3 months?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes, I can say that and we will get you that 
progress as the hotspots get out, but we do realize this is a 
major issue that many education chiefs in States are facing.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. Thank you very much. I will maybe--
because I do have a second here--no, I will let it be.
    I will yield the rest of my time.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. And I thank the gentleman from 
Wisconsin, particularly for his opening comments about the 
desire to meet in person. I can assure you that if we are in 
session, any committee proceedings will be in person and not 
virtual, so we will follow through on your suggestion.
    Next is the gentle lady from Oregon, Ms. Bonamici.
    The gentleman from California, Mr. Takano.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My first question is 
directed to Mr. Johnson, the superintendent of schools.
    Mr. Johnson, you know, I understand you are a strong 
proponent of charter schools and school choice, and I want to 
know if you believe that charter schools should be known as 
also public schools or whether there is a--I mean, should they 
be able to claim that moniker?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes. In North Carolina, charter schools are 
public schools. They come out of the State's public-school 
funding.
    Mr. Takano. I would like to highlight a New York Times 
article from this morning about charter schools. Unlike regular 
and traditional public schools, charter schools and private 
schools are eligible for PPP funds through the CARES Act. 
Charter schools are also eligible for the Education 
Stabilization funds. The ability for these schools to tap into 
PPP funds significantly disadvantages traditional public 
schools.
    Should charter schools be allowed to tap into PPP funds 
while they are also benefitting from Stabilization funds?
    Mr. Johnson. I know that relief funds from the United 
States Congress and the administration should help as broad a 
spectrum of students and citizens as possible. I am not 
personally aware of charter schools in North Carolina applying 
for the PPP fund. That is something that I would need to look 
into more with my colleagues.
    Mr. Takano. Well, my understanding is that schools that are 
fairly well--charter schools that have fairly healthy balance 
sheets, that are funded by Mr. Bloomberg, who maximally donated 
to your campaign for State Superintendent, that these schools 
are potentially drawing PPP funds. If true, what do you think 
about this?
    Mr. Johnson. I would say in North Carolina--
    Mr. Takano. [Inaudible.] funds?
    Mr. Johnson. That is a determination for Congress and for 
the Treasury Department. I would say that in North Carolina, 
you have charter schools that are struggling just as much as 
other public schools when it comes to the funding issue, 
because of the way they are funded in North Carolina. They are 
having to find resources for their own buildings. They find 
resources for their own transportation.
    And I will say I have been a very strong advocate for 
charter schools but also for charter school accountability. And 
if there is a charter school that is not doing well, I want to 
make sure that it provides--
    Choice for students. And there are definitely some 
excellent examples of charter schools in North Carolina that 
are providing education for--
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Johnson, I recall my time, please. So, you 
know, my concern is that the administration is refusing to 
disclose who is receiving PPP funds, but some groups out there 
have discovered that at least $50 million has gone to charter 
schools from the PPP program. If there--that is why I asked you 
about why you regard them as public schools.
    Because if they are receiving money from the PPP program, 
they are receiving it as sort of in this--with the 
understanding that they are sort of nonprofit organizations. 
And schools, public schools specifically, are not allowed to 
receive PPP funds.
    So do you think that the administration should disclose who 
the recipients of PPP funds are so we can understand which 
charter schools actually have been receiving PPP funds, 
including those that may have very healthy balance sheets and 
are backed by wealthy billionaires?
    Mr. Johnson. I would support transparency in everything the 
Federal Government is doing.
    Mr. Takano. So you would call upon the Trump administration 
to disclose, you know, whether or not charter schools have been 
receiving PPP funds in addition to stabilization funds?
    Mr. Johnson. I won't go so far as to make that grandiose 
statement when we are here to talk about the public schools, 
and the PPP is out of my realm of expertise, self-admittedly. 
But, no, I absolutely agree with you; transparency in 
everything is very important for government.
    Mr. Takano. Well, I thank you for that, sir. We are talking 
about funding the public schools. My concern is that currently 
charter schools, what you call public schools, are drawing from 
the stabilization program, which was intended for public 
schools under the CARES Act, yet they are also able to be 
nonpublic schools because public schools cannot--I would say 
the conventional public schools are not able to draw on PPP 
funds.
    So I don't know what they really are. The public schools 
are not, but we should take advantage of this moment.
    I yield back Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    The gentlelady from New York, Ms. Stefanik.
    Ms. Stefanik. Thank you, Chairman Scott. And thank you to 
all of our witnesses for your testimony today on an incredibly 
important subject.
    In my district in New York's north country, we have been 
working very closely with our teachers, our superintendents, 
and our parents to get their feedback in real-time, and my 
district is one of the most rural districts east of the 
Mississippi River. It is certainly the most rural district in 
New York, and there are some school districts where up to 50 
percent of the students do not have access to broadband. So I 
echo my colleagues sentiments on the importance of closing that 
digital divide.
    In addition, I have heard from parents and families of 
students with special needs who have been woefully underserved 
during this crisis.
    I wanted to ask you, Mark, what are the biggest lessons 
that you have learned in terms of where online learning does 
not meet the need of our students? Because we have learned a 
lot over the past few months. We have learned that many 
students have completely fallen out of contact with our school 
systems. We have learned that some students who have very 
hands-on parents have thrived or caregivers who are involved in 
helping them navigate this new technology.
    So I would just like to hear from you, Mark, what your 
biggest lessons are, from your perspective, with a particular 
focus on rural students.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you for that question, Representative.
    Absolutely we are making sure that we do everything we can 
to help students thrive; but, again, as the father of a young 
daughter myself, I can tell you, even with the connectivity, 
this is still a struggle for parents having to step in and 
especially parents who are educators themselves, parents who 
are first responders. I mean, they were on the frontlines 
educating and saving lives and still are during this crisis, 
while students also needed that extra help with the remote 
learning.
    I think that is one of the biggest challenges. Obviously, 
there is the glaring, glaring issue of the lack of connectivity 
and the need for us to really help connect all students, 
especially if we are going to be relying on the no learning, 
but then also going into the proper professional development 
opportunities that we can afford for our teachers to support 
them in really best practices for remote learning and the 
digital curriculum options.
    We have heard a lot about personalized learning today. 
Personalized learning is the idea that when our students come 
back, we can do a formative assessment on where they are and 
what their ability level is, how much learning they have lost. 
And then all of this technology we are buying, use that 
technology to help teachers meet them where they are in their 
ability, and they can progress at their pace.
    As my colleague said, you know, my words are that we have a 
system that, you know, it is not any educator's fault, it is 
not any the leader's fault. We just have a system that was 
designed a hundred years ago for an agrarian industrial 
society.
    We are now in the digital age, and we should use this 
moment to transform our education to digital age practices, but 
that is going to be a heavy lift, and it is definitely going to 
take support from States and school districts for our educators 
and students.
    Ms. Stefanik. Thank you.
    And I just want to take this moment to thank all of the 
teachers and educators in my district who I have spoken with 
and those I haven't had an opportunity to speak with, they have 
just been tremendous in rising to this challenge as a 
community, and we couldn't be more proud of our teachers across 
this country and our students during this difficult time.
    And with that, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Thank you.
    Next is the gentlelady from North Carolina, Dr. Adams.
    Ms. Adams. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And let me thank all of 
our witnesses here today. Thank you for your testimony. Thank 
you for your support of children.
    I want to shout out to my district in CMS in Charlotte and 
my former district, Guilford County in Greensboro.
    Mr. Johnson, thank you for joining the committee. It is 
always great to have an opportunity to talk policy with fellow 
North Carolinians, and because of my particular interest in the 
State of North Carolina and its public-school system. I was on 
the school board many, many years ago. And I am a 40-year 
retired teacher, but--or a professor.
    But my questions will be very State specific, and so I 
would appreciate if we could have succinct answers because, you 
know, we are on a really short time limit.
    We both know that the commitment our State made to public 
education dated all the way back to the Great Depression, and 
as many other States suffered rampant school closures, not one 
public school closed in North Carolina due to the depression. 
But since the depression of 2008, priorities have changed, and 
today North Carolina is only one of seven States where State 
investment in education has still not reached pre 2009 levels 
adjusted for inflation.
    So the State is projecting a revenue shortfall of $1.6 
billion in 2019-2020, $2.6 billion in 2020-2021. So given these 
facts, what is your plan as the State superintendent to ensure 
North Carolina students recieve a sound basic education despite 
the anticipated shortfalls in revenue?
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Madam Representative. It is a 
pleasure to see you, and thank you for your questions on North 
Carolina specifically because you definitely know a lot about 
North Carolina, and we appreciate that and appreciate your 
service.
    I would say that there are multiple plans in place. One, we 
are working very closely with the North Carolina General 
Assembly to make sure that we protect our education budget as 
much as possible. We should be hopefully seeing the education 
budget come out soon over the summer. That, plus the Federal 
relief that Congress was able to send to North Carolina, 
definitely putting all of that together to see how it helps 
and, quite frankly, getting into the weeds a little bit on just 
one particular thing, we are very fortunate in North Carolina 
that we do live in a State where teacher salaries have 
increased a lot just in a very short amount of time.
    And in North Carolina last school year, the median teacher 
salary was actually more than the median household income, 
which is--it just reached it last year and we are very excited 
about that; but we have launched a teach-and-see program where 
we want to recruit great candidates to come and teach in our 
schools because it is such an amazing important career.
    We are going to double down on that. Especially when you 
see all of the job losses in our economy and what that could 
mean, we really want to reach these amazing graduates who are 
just now graduating from college, put them in programs where 
they can come teach in our schools, but we will need to make 
sure we have the teaching places for them. And I believe we are 
on track for hopefully the North Carolina General Assembly to 
fund enrollment growth in North Carolina.
    Ms. Adams. Well, thank you very much. And I served 20 years 
in that General Assembly. I know some of the players who are 
still there. I also know that Senate Bill 704, which set the 
August 17 date for schools to be open, like many of my 
colleagues, I am very concerned about how they can open safely. 
And in the plan that was put together, what was your 
involvement? Did you consult teachers or parents or community 
leaders in developing it?
    Mr. Johnson. Oh, absolutely. The Governor came out with the 
plan that was in partnership with the education system, many 
diverse stakeholders, from teachers, to staff, to 
superintendents. Right now the Governor's plan is the plan A, a 
plan B, and a plan C. And I will be very brief.
    Plan A is getting as many students back into school as 
possible. Plan B is advance social distancing requirements. 
Plan C is remote learning. The Governor is going to make his 
call on what plan we will be in by July 1.
    Ms. Adams. Okay. I am going to have to send you a question 
now in writing. But I just wanted to know what role you played 
in the plan. But you don't need to answer that right now.
    But. Mr. Leachman, let me ask you, what is the best way for 
States and localities to spend CARES Act funds?
    Mr. Leachman. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    Ms. Adams. I have got about 59 seconds.
    Mr. Leachman. Yes, ma'am.
    So, first and foremost, it should be spent on dealing with 
the pandemic. If we don't do that, then the economy and 
everything that we care about is going to suffer. We do that 
first and foremost. The second thing is to address the harm on 
the people that have been hurt the most.
    So I would say those two things, including--and including 
distance learning and doing as much as you can in the schools 
as part of those efforts.
    Ms. Adams. What lessons, Mr. Leachman, can Congress learn 
from the Great Recession and support our States and school 
districts?
    Mr. Leachman. The aid provided during the Great Recession 
was helpful, but it was too small and it ended too soon, only 
covered about a quarter of State shortfalls. We had to make 
cuts that we are still feeling the effects of.
    Ms. Adams. All right. I don't want the chairman to gavel 
me. I am out of time.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thanks very much.
    Chairman Scott. Okay. Thank you.
    The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Allen?
    The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Allen?
    The gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Smucker.
    Ms. Foxx. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Allen is on.
    Mr. Allen. Yes.
    Chairman Scott. Okay. Okay. Mr. Allen.
    Mr. Allen. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And I just wanted to share with everyone what I am hearing 
in the 12th District of Georgia is that we must open this 
economy and it is critical that we get schools open for the new 
school year, and I can't get anybody to tell me there is 
another option.
    This is an important discussion that we are having today. 
In fact, it is critical that we, as a Congress and as a 
country, come together and try to decide exactly how we are 
going to move forward.
    Mr. Johnson, you spoke of some concern as a citizen on the 
amount of Federal spending as a result of COVID-19 in your 
opening remarks. Since you are a teacher--I don't know if you 
are a math teacher, but I thought I would give you a little 
math that we have had to deal with here.
    This year the Federal budget at the beginning of the year, 
October 1, was 300 billion above the previous year and 200 
billion above 2018. Most of this was discretionary spending, 
which is about 30 percent of the total federal budget, which 
has increased from 1.2 trillion to 1.5 trillion in 3 years. In 
the last 3 months, it has tripled. It has gone from $1.5 
trillion to $5.5 trillion, or four times that originally 
budgeted.
    I have heard the Heroes Act mentioned here today which 
would double the accelerated level from 5.5 trillion to 8.8 
trillion. The Heroes Act also includes a large tax cut for 
those who live in high tax States, known as the State and local 
tax deduction, SALT.
    As a citizen and an educator, how would you explain this 
debt that we are putting on the backs of these very children 
that we are trying to figure out how to get back to school this 
fall, how would you explain this to them?
    Mr. Johnson. Well, again, I will emphasize that I am the 
father of a 7-year-old, and I agree with you, that is one of 
the balances that Congress has to, unfortunately, strike in 
this situation.
    We absolutely are going to need resources for schools. 
There is no doubt about that. But we know that the amount of 
money coming from Congress is being done through debt, and 
while we absolutely want to connect every student, we owe it to 
every student to find the innovation to make sure we get them 
the tools and strategies they need to succeed; but we also 
don't want to burden them with even more of this debt that is 
being piled upon them that eventually they are going to have to 
pay.
    So I would say it is a very hard balance that we are asking 
Congress to make; but that is one reason why I just bring the 
information from North Carolina about how we are still working 
through the funding that you all have so graciously given us so 
far.
    Mr. Allen. Well, it is a very, very difficult situation, 
particularly when we are asking our educators and everyone 
across the State in Georgia, which has been mentioned earlier, 
to reduce expenses as a result of COVID-19, and here we have 
the Federal Government that has, I mean, almost six times, 
increased spending almost six times to deal with this, plus we 
have an economy that is currently being restricted because of 
the COVID and other reasons that are a little bit beyond our 
control.
    But as far as the funding levels, assuming that we--I don't 
know how we are going to deal with this situation. We have put 
ourselves in a terrible situation. In other words, in Georgia 
we had a $3 billion rainy day fund, and we are going to deal 
with it. But, you know, what have you got to have to, I mean, 
get your school system open this fall? I mean, can you get me a 
number and what you think it looks like for the rest of the 
country? Have you looked at any numbers there?
    Mr. Johnson. No. And I know that there is actually the 
group of chief State school officers that is working on 
providing a number; but it is very important that we put 
everything together when we make these decisions because you 
are making some very difficult choices, everyone is.
    And part of this is sometimes they are just really, really 
tough challenges that we face with this COVID-19 crisis. But I 
do believe that we will be able to work through it together and 
get through it together.
    Mr. Allen. Well. We have done it this so far to save lives, 
and that is important; but we have got so many other things 
that are confronting us right now, and it is difficult. And we 
don't take this spending lightly; I don't, because it is going 
to be a tremendous impact on future generations. We don't even 
know what that impact is going to be.
    So I thank you for your time.
    And I will yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you, thank you.
    The gentleman from California, Mr. DeSaulnier.
    The gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Norcross.
    Mr. Norcross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and to our ranking 
member. We appreciate you putting together this hearing. It is 
a remarkable time in our country given what has gone on over 
the course of the last few years.
    Just a reflection, that when we look at our children, who 
are our future, this is why it is so important that when we do 
open, we open the right way. We have seen what happens across 
this country with this spike coming after what happens when you 
open the wrong way.
    And to my colleague who suggested bricks and mortar don't 
matter, well, they certainly do to those children who would be 
in those facilities. The old schools had asbestos. They had 
PCBs. They had lead. Now they have COVID. So there is a smart 
way to reuse your buildings. That is why Mr. Scott and I have 
introduced a bill to address that.
    But I just want to talk about what is going on today, this 
massive revenue loss, which is important when it is the 
children that is the primary goal for us to make sure that they 
don't do it. So I asked a number of teachers in my district how 
they are dealing with it. We now have physical distancing as we 
are communicating, but we know how important it is for a 
teacher in her classroom to physically see the children, that 
they can react and see difference nuances when a child is left 
behind.
    Ms. Pringle, how are teachers dealing with this online when 
there is a disruption or there is an issue when you can't see 
it and sometimes you can't even hear it? How are teachers 
dealing with this?
    Chairman Scott. Need to unmute.
    Ms. Pringle. Thank you, Congressman, for that question.
    I cannot tell you how proud I am of our teachers all over 
this country who are, once again, standing in the gaps for our 
students.
    So I talked with one of those teachers who told me that she 
actually spent almost a thousand dollars to get a device, 
technology, where she could do exactly what you were talking 
about, where she could actually see her students working 
through the math problems so she could identify where they were 
having problems. That is the kind of resource investment we 
need.
    We need that now, and I will tell you that it is 
unacceptable, it is unacceptable, that we can find money to 
bail out billionaires, and millionaires, and corporations, and 
we cannot invest in our students right now and in their future. 
That is unacceptable.
    So we have our teachers who are stepping up, but we need 
our government to step up, too.
    Mr. Norcross. And also the one thing I hear time after 
time, different ages act in different ways. When you have a 
smaller child who has the guidance of their parent or guardian, 
that is one thing; but as they get into high school, something 
happens to students if we can all remember that. So that is a 
challenge we have to continue.
    But, Mr. Gordon, I wanted to ask about reopening schools. 
The pandemic has changed normal. There will be a new normal. 
What that looks like will depend on how this pandemic and this 
virus reacts.
    What steps have you taken--because traditionally the summer 
months which, we are right now, is the construction season, 
that opportunity to prepare schools for the next coming year, 
which is only a couple of months away.
    What guidance have you had in preparing the physical 
schools for the pandemic and children that are coming back in 
September?
    Mr. Gordon. Thank you, sir.
    We are very fortunate to have a very highly respected 
medical community in Cleveland, and so we have been working 
with University Hospitals, who has put together a team that is 
actually coming into our buildings and walking the buildings 
with us to let us know how we can safely implement Ohio's and 
the CDC's guidance. We also--
    Mr. Norcross. Let me interrupt for a minute.
    Mr. Gordon. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Norcross. You say guidance. We have heard protocol. But 
these aren't standards. They are not enforceable by anybody. 
You are voluntarily accepting them; is that correct?
    Mr. Gordon. Well, Governor DeWine has not yet released his 
guidance, so we do not yet know if it will be through an order 
or whether it will be guidance. Most of his releases have been 
mandates of how industries should run, then best practices. So 
right now I anticipate that we will have mandatory public 
health rules.
    Mr. Norcross. Well, this is why we and Bobby Scott, again, 
has another bill that talks about these enforceable standards 
that are directly related to how employees and teachers, but, 
more importantly, our kids, are going back into these public 
institutions with guidelines. We need standards so people know 
what to follow.
    With that, that is my call. But, again, this is an issue 
that is not going away. September is here.
    And I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    The gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Smucker.
    Mr. Smucker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your 
scheduling this hearing on this very important issue.
    I would like to thank the witnesses, Mr. Gordon, Mr. 
Johnson, Ms. Pringle, for participating in this and for the 
work that you all are doing to ensure that our students can 
respond in the best way possible and can continue to learn 
through this unprecedented time.
    I can tell you with conversations with administrators, 
superintendents in my area, as well as teachers, I am so proud 
of the work that is being done in PA 11. There was talk of 
internet access. You know, in my area, I have some rural 
communities in my area, but we don't have a big problem with 
broadband access, but when schools switched to remote learning, 
they realized that many families still didn't have the internet 
access that they needed. And so it presented a lot of 
challenges in the rollout of those remote learning platforms.
    And so one of the creative solutions in my area was that 
superintendents sent bus drivers out with hot spots on their 
buses, and they drove around throughout the community. It would 
stop at different areas creating mobile internet hubs. So that 
was just one example of creative solutions that were taken 
right here in our community.
    My son was a junior, will now be a senior in Lampeter-
Strasburg, the school district where we live, and I was so 
pleased to see the tremendous effort that the teachers took to 
ensure that learning continued, even--just one example of a 
teacher, you know, ran some sort of contest to keep the 
students engaged and online and took her own personal time to 
drop off some gift certificate to a local, I don't know, 
Starbucks, or whatever it was, for my son.
    So it just showed the kind of commitment that teachers were 
making, I am sure all across the country, certainly I observed 
firsthand all across our district here. So we appreciate all 
the work.
    This does obviously create a massive funding issue. Just 
one comment on that. You know, the longer we are closed down, 
the more additional revenue is lost. I have been disappointed 
in Pennsylvania that data has shown that the curve was 
literally crushed here, hospitals were never overwhelmed, but 
we are far behind other States in reopening.
    And every day we do that, it is not only additional revenue 
that is lost that could be going to schools, but it is also 
additional businesses that may not come back to reinvigorate 
the economy when it does open. So I think it is urgent that we 
continue to safely reopen and allow businesses that can safely 
reopen to do so as quickly as possible.
    And I was talking a long time and didn't get to a lot of 
questions. But, Mr. Gordon, in particular, I was very 
interested in one of your comments in regards to competency-
based learning as opposed to measuring--I believe this was you, 
Mr. Gordon, but as opposed to measuring seat time, which I have 
always been an advocate of. I think we should move students 
along based on what they know, not necessarily the amount of 
time they were sitting in the seats.
    But you said you have potentially learned some things 
through this that you might be able to apply. I wondered if you 
could just expand on that. I was curious what you meant by 
that.
    Mr. Gordon. Certainly, Congressman. Thank you.
    So I have long believed that we need to write our education 
system so that it focuses on the mastery of learning and not 
just a forced march. I say in my own community, there is no 
science that says 25 kids can only learn English language arts 
from 9:07 to 10:11 Monday through Friday. That is an efficiency 
of scheduling, not a design for learning. And we have a decade 
of work of trying to create more mastering of important models 
in Cleveland.
    What we learned in this shutdown is--and you heard it from 
my colleague in North Carolina--is different kids respond in 
different ways. Younger children struggled more with the 
digital platforms in general than older students with 
disabilities.
    And then based on need, I have a parent who wrote to me 
very upset because she has three children. She is a single 
parent. She has two jobs, and both are considered essential. 
And I want her making sure her kids do all of this stuff, and 
she is overwhelmed. But even things like that add impact.
    And so it is really pushed my team and I. I am proud of my 
teachers because we scheduled student-parent-teacher 
conferences at a schedule that met the family's need as opposed 
to everybody gets a call every day or everybody gets a call a 
week. That overwhelmed mom can't take a call every day. And I 
think we did more and better for our kids because of how much 
effort my educators made to find out where that family was and 
walk along with them.
    Mr. Smucker. Well I am out of time already, but I do want 
again to say thank you for your leadership. And this has been 
tough in many different areas, including education; but, you 
know, perhaps we will learn a few things about how we could do 
things differently. I know that is true in telemedicine. It is 
going to change the way I think we work, but probably also see 
some positive changes in terms of how we approach education.
    So thank you for those comments.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    The gentlelady from Washington, Ms. Jayapal.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to all 
of our witnesses for being here today.
    This hearing is incredibly timely as demonstrators and 
activists across the country are calling on their elected 
leaders to correct long-standing funding inequities that 
disproportionately harm Black people. For far too long funding 
for militarized police forces in Black communities is 
prioritized instead of equitable public education for these 
same communities.
    And I am deeply troubled that this pandemic will only 
further widen achievement gaps for Black students, low-income 
students, and students of color.
    In Washington State, while 96 percent of K-12 funding is 
constitutionally protected, we are all incredibly concerned 
that it would still be subjected to cuts. With a $7 billion 
budget shortfall projected over the next 3 years in our State, 
school employee hiring freezes and layoffs seem likely without 
Federal support, especially when staffing makes up about 85 
percent of K-12 costs in my district.
    Ms. Pringle, thank you so much for your testimony and for 
your work. How do staff cuts disproportionately hurt students 
of color and low-income students?
    Ms. Pringle. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    Absolutely, we know this throughout history, that when we 
have a crisis, it will disproportionately impact our Black and 
Brown students, our students living in poverty, our students 
with special needs. We already are not providing the resources 
that they need when they need it, and this pandemic is just 
like every other crisis throughout history that has impacted 
them.
    So we know that they already are in schools that have high 
class sizes so that those teachers cannot provide that 
individualized learning. If we do not get the funds from the 
Heroes Act, we know that over 500,000 more teachers will be 
laid off, and that will increase class sizes.
    Let's talk about the safety around COVID-19. We know that 
if we are going to try to practice those guidelines of social 
distancing, if we have fewer staff, we know that they are going 
to be impacted at a greater degree.
    And then we also know--and this is what I have heard from 
teachers all over the country--that they know they need to 
prepare now for trauma informed practice. We cannot do that if 
we do not have enough teachers and counselors and support 
professionals to surround our students with the care and 
nurturing they need to try to help them with the emotional 
trauma that they have been experiencing over these 3 months.
    So, absolutely, those students will need that additional 
support, and so we are asking everyone to ensure that we lift 
up our voice right now so they get what they need.
    Ms. Jayapal. Incredibly important.
    Let me ask you a follow-up question, Ms. Pringle. Secretary 
DeVos has stated that she plans to move ahead with a policy 
that would transfer CARES Act dollars from public schools to 
wealthier private ones, and that is a departure from the usual 
practice of how federal funding for equitable services is 
allocated under Title I.
    So as an educator, knowing the amount of learning loss we 
have already seen among students of color due to the pandemic, 
can you tell us what impact such a policy decision would have 
on high poverty schools?
    Ms. Pringle. Congresswoman, the same impact that Secretary 
DeVos's decisions have had throughout her tenure, it is why 
hundreds of thousands of educators all over this country rose 
up and said she should not be confirmed. She is not fit for her 
office. She is the most unqualified Secretary of Education we 
have ever had. And we see in the middle of this crisis, she is 
still trying to promote her schemes around privatization.
    We are standing up and calling that out, and we thank you 
so much for including language in the Heroes Act to call that 
out, too.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you.
    Dr. Leachman, very quickly, why is direct aid dedicated to 
K-12 so important? You have just got a very short period of 
time, but if you could.
    Mr. Leachman. Well, it is crucially important because our 
schools are so important, and we want to make sure that they 
are protected and the educations of our kids are protected. So 
we need a range of tools to provide physical relief; but a key 
part of that is direct aid to schools.
    Ms. Jayapal. And what scale is needed to address the 
crisis? You know, we put nearly a trillion dollars--excuse me, 
an infusion of approximately $58 billion and nearly a trillion 
in aid to state and local governments in the Heroes Act. What 
scale do you think is necessary?
    Mr. Leachman. Well, we are projecting over $600 billion in 
overall shortfalls for States only, right. Schools account for 
roughly a third of that. So just on very rough terms, that gets 
you somewhere around 200. Then you have got the additional 
shortfalls at the local level, plus the additional costs of 
dealing with COVID-19 and opening up safely. So, you know, it 
is a substantial sum that schools need.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    The gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Banks.
    Mr. Banks. There we go, Mr. Chairman. Can you hear me now?
    Chairman Scott. I can hear you.
    Mr. Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I appreciate the opportunity to be a part of this hearing 
today because I believe it is the most important conversation 
that we should be having in America at the moment: How do we 
get our kids back in the classroom?
    I am pleased to see a number of my colleagues in the 
hearing room. I do believe, Mr. Chairman, we have cheapened 
this conversation today by not having an in-person hearing, and 
I hope we will make up for it in the near future and perhaps 
have many more committee hearings in this important 
conversation in the days to come.
    What is it going to take to get our kids back in the 
classroom? And, Superintendent Johnson, you and I have 
something in common. We both have young kids. I have a first 
grader, a second grader, and a fourth grader, and it has been 
tragic watching what they have gone through every single day 
through this, trying to get a good education through virtual 
learning.
    All of the studies are showing that virtual learning has 
failed to provide an adequate educational opportunity to our 
kids. And the conversation today is about what is it going to 
take to get our kids the education that they deserve, America 
is the land of opportunity because we guarantee an educational 
opportunity to every kid in this great country, and we are 
about to leave a generation of kids behind if we don't do 
everything absolutely possible to get our kids back in the 
classroom in the fall.
    Superintendent Johnson, from what you have already told us 
today, I think you and I agree that the education that kids 
have received through virtual learning is far inferior to what 
they would receive in the classroom; is that correct?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes. I think we will have the actual analytics 
to prove that as well; but we definitely have the stories from 
not just students, not just parents, but also educators 
themselves and everything they are doing, and they truly have 
been champions during this crisis. But they even know that this 
is no replacement for having students in the classroom. Even 
when there is at least more in their control during this remote 
learning that they are putting in the efforts in towards, they 
know, they see the results every day. This is no substitution 
for being in the classroom.
    Mr. Banks. There is no doubt about it, our teachers are the 
super heroes in all of this trying to do whatever it takes to 
deliver that education to these kids. But I haven't spoken to a 
single teacher yet that tells me that kids don't deserve to be 
in the classroom in the fall, that they shouldn't be in the 
classroom in the fall, that they should be left to remain at 
home receiving an inferior education, because our teachers 
understand better than anybody that experience in a classroom 
is far superior to what they have experienced over the last few 
months.
    There has been a lot of talk, Superintendent Johnson, today 
about money, but what else do our schools need to accomplish 
the end goal of opening our classrooms in the fall? And on that 
note, can you talk about liability protection? I have had a lot 
of school leaders call me and say that liability protections 
are an important piece of the puzzle. Can you talk about that? 
And what else is it going to take to move this conversation 
toward doing whatever possible to get our kids in the 
classroom, in the fall?
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you.
    We are still awaiting the guidance from our Governor in 
North Carolina. That is going to be a very pivotal moment for 
our schools. Are we going to try to get as many students back 
in the school building as possible? Are we going to have to 
shift to strategies that promote social distancing? Which we 
know already the challenges that will bring with just trying to 
get students on the school bus, trying to get students in the 
classroom, it is going to be quite an uphill challenge.
    For the liability, that is something that more and more 
educators are looking for action from their elected leaders. 
Whatever school looks like when we go back in the fall, we do 
not want educators to have to worry about being held liable if, 
heaven forbid, there is a spread of COVID-19, or even beyond 
that, just being liable for making sure that the student is 
keeping a face mask on.
    In North Carolina it is not going to be a requirement for 
face masks, but that just shows how it is going to be different 
State by State. And anything the Federal Government can do to 
help with giving some reassurance to educators around the 
liability question would be very much appreciated.
    Mr. Banks. It has been suggested that liability protections 
are pro teachers, that our teachers are expecting liability 
protections?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes, I believe that is something that 
education leaders and educators would very much support.
    Mr. Banks. Let me move on to another question.
    Have you read the CDC guidelines and the recommendations 
for reopening?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes.
    Mr. Banks. Are they reasonable?
    Mr. Johnson. I do believe--I hope that they can be 
reasonably accommodating. We, again, in North Carolina, are 
looking at that as a baseline. We are hoping to get into a 
plan. We are going to get as many students back into school and 
as safely as possible. It is going to be very difficult.
    One point under the CDC's guideline of screening students 
before they come into schools, that is something we are doing a 
lot of work on right now of how do you actually practically 
make that happen to ensure that guideline is met but you also 
cannot interrupt the school day.
    Mr. Banks. Thank you very much. You have given us a lot to 
think about.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    The gentleman from New York, Mr. Morelle.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, for your 
leadership throughout this crisis and for providing the 
Committee with a number of different ways, both through your 
briefings and this hearing virtually, to continue our vital 
work.
    You know, the revenue shortfalls, which is the subject of 
this conversation, particularly for State and local governments 
as a result of COVID, are devastating, and I am very grateful 
we are having this opportunity to have this conversation about 
that.
    The challenges and losses are obviously on an unprecedented 
scale. And, again, something like the virus, we have seen 
something like 21, 22 States are now seeing an increase in the 
number of cases, something that we experienced in New York some 
weeks ago.
    Our numbers are down dramatically, and I am in Upstate New 
York, Rochester, where we have had a relatively flat curve in 
terms of number of hospitalizations, et cetera.
    But even as we regain our footing, if that is the case, we 
have a real opportunity to be intentional about what we do in 
terms of revenues and about guarding against future fallout, 
and that is why I think this is such an important conversation. 
I have spent many years in the State Legislature in New York, 
in the State Assembly, so I am particularly keen and interested 
in the impact that this has on State governments.
    I think as it was noted earlier, the revenue loss 
anticipated somewhere in the neighborhood of $615, $620 
billion. Here in New York alone, we are expecting a $14 billion 
shortfall. We provide, as a State government, I think more per 
capita to K through 12 than any State in the Nation; but our 
ability to do that is going to be dramatically impacted, and 
obviously the quality of education is going to be impacted as 
well.
    And the other thing that this has pointed out--and I am 
just commenting on some things that have already been 
discussed--is the real digital divide when you go to and look 
at the disparities between some communities, particularly urban 
and rural, who don't have access to broadband, don't have 
access to devices. And the more and more that we try to 
compensate for the inability to be together by using distance 
learning, that divide, that disparity, grows worse and worse, 
particularly among communities of color.
    I do want to say that I think the teachers throughout this 
country have done an amazing job, like our healthcare workers, 
have gone above and beyond whatever would have been expected of 
them to try to accommodate their students, and they are all 
going to work through the summers. I think, as has been said, 
teachers start thinking about the fall in June as the class 
year starts to end.
    So I think perhaps Mr. Gordon could answer this. I suspect 
others could pitch in as well. But I wanted to go back a little 
bit to learning loss. The Northwest Evaluation Association said 
there will be at least a 30 percent learning loss in reading 
and a 50 percent learning loss in math as a result of the 
school closings. That is on top of the learning loss that we 
have already talked about.
    So if we could just talk about the impact, Mr. Gordon, or 
maybe comment on the lack of access to quality remote learning 
which is impacting vulnerable students and as a result they are 
falling further and further behind.
    What could we do? What do you expect Congress should do to 
try and address that and to help students adapt to remote 
learning particularly in vulnerable populations?
    Mr. Gordon. Thank you, Congressman.
    I think that Congress is going to need to take a long view 
of what recovery for most fragile communities looks like, and I 
think in my community it is not actually learning loss. We can 
still learn. Our children can still learn reading and math 
everything. It is learning time loss, and that is going to take 
time to make up.
    You know, so immediately we are asking for support to keep 
our districts whole. Like my colleague in North Carolina, we 
are looking at how do we personalize and really start where 
each child is and assess where they are and how we move them 
forward. But I think my biggest fear, we know in past 
recessions, public institutions come out of recessions much 
more slowly. For Cleveland, it was 2012.
    If the country is kind of up and humming and everybody kind 
of forgets that we have to make up this time for children over 
time and we don't adequately fund the Title programs, IDEA, 
McKinney-Vento, those programs that are designed for these 
children, that is where we will ultimately fail because our 
educators are going to need to work more deeply and with more 
time with these fragile communities than they would with a more 
typical peer.
    Mr. Morelle. And before I run out of time here, on that 
topic of time learning, you mentioned 12-month-a-year school 
years. Do you expect that is going to be the norm around the 
country as we try to get back that lost time?
    Mr. Gordon. Thank you, Congressman.
    In Cleveland we already have several year-around schools, 
and the reason we moved to that is we know from the evidence 
that 3 weeks is about the length of break before you actually 
do start seeing regression in learning. And so we have 10 weeks 
on, 3 weeks off.
    I would have the whole system there if I could afford it. 
It is a cost issue because you are bringing in your faculty, in 
our case, 8 more weeks to give them a learning time and 
students for 4 more weeks a year, but it is the right way to go 
and really lets us rethink the old agrarian calendar.
    Mr. Morelle. I yield back my time.
    Thank you very much.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    The gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Walker. The 
gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Walker.
    The gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Comer.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I would like to begin by stating again for the record that 
I am here in the committee room. I believe that it is important 
for Congress to lead by example. I believe it is very important 
that we reopen our economy and that Congress should again lead 
by example, which takes me to my first question.
    A lot of my colleagues have been stating the obvious that 
many school districts across America, if not every school 
district, is going to be faced with huge budget challenges. 
These challenges are obviously a result of the COVID-19 and 
having to temporarily shut the economy down. That is why I 
think it is imperative that we get serious about reopening the 
economy.
    Some States have done a much better job of safely reopening 
their economy than others, but I think that is something that 
is important to know as we talk about funding challenges in 
public education as we move forward.
    One of the complaints that I have always had and heard from 
school superintendents, school board members, administrators, 
and school districts is that a lot of times they have adequate 
budgets, but they don't have flexibility to spend the money in 
programs that they see fit that work better in the local areas.
    Mr. Johnson, are there flexibilities in the Federal law 
that have not yet been addressed today that would be useful for 
local school districts?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes. I will just highlight, again, that we 
would appreciate flexibility around the high stakes assessments 
at the end of the year. There is work going on around that, but 
possibly we can put that into overdrive in order to have that 
be something that can help address the COVID-19 crisis as well.
    And then I will speak on behalf of the professionals in my 
Exceptional Children's Department at the State agency in North 
Carolina. They would appreciate some flexibility on the 
timelines per their requirements.
    Mr. Johnson. Not throwing out any requirements when it 
comes to serving our students who honestly need the most 
service from educators, but looking at the timelines for those 
requirements given just the unbelievable challenges that we 
will all face coming up this next school year.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you very much for that.
    And, Mr. Chairman, hopefully that is something that this 
committee can do in a bipartisan way to give our local school 
districts more flexibility as we move forward.
    Speaking of bipartisan, at the beginning of the pandemic, I 
partnered with my Democrat colleague, Representative Bonamici, 
to introduce legislation which allows school officials to 
distribute food in any number of settings across our most 
crucial nutrition programs and allow for flexibility on meal 
components if food supply procurement is disrupted.
    I am grateful that we took this step forward to prioritize 
families and children affected by the coronavirus and am very 
happy that President Trump signed it into law. However, having 
worked with the food service directors during my time as 
Commissioner of Agriculture in Kentucky and now as a member of 
this Committee and the Agriculture Committee, I know these 
issues don't go away as soon as students step back through the 
classroom doors and recognize the amount of planning that goes 
into the execution of our school meal programs. Some districts 
are even considering adopting modified schedules or other 
alternative education delivery methods for the fall semester.
    Mr. Johnson, can you describe how the flexibility offered 
by the U.S. Department of Ag has been helpful in that, and are 
there any waivers that could be extended that would be 
especially beneficial as you plan for the next school year?
    Mr. Johnson. Absolutely. Thank you for that question.
    This is something where the waivers have been very crucial 
for meal delivery services to our students in two main 
categories that you can think of: One, we were using school 
buses to deliver meals to students. You might have a group of 
students at the school bus stop, you might have parents there 
on behalf of their students, but the flexibility around the 
rostering and being able to hand out the meals is extremely 
helpful.
    And then also we had cafeteria and food and nutrition 
workers who were in the at-risk category and were not able to 
go in and perform their services and being able to use other 
school employees to help fill in those roles was very helpful 
as well.
    We would absolutely encourage the Federal Government to 
extend those waivers, and hopefully we can get back into 
schools as normal as possible but, heaven forbid, we are back 
in a place where it is remote learning and remote meal 
delivery, we will absolutely rely on those waivers again.
    Mr. Comer. And, Mr. Chairman, one last question if I may.
    Mr. Johnson, in your view, what has been the biggest 
challenge for districts trying to adapt to distance education, 
aside from the lack of broadband in many rural areas, like my 
congressional district that has already been discussed heavily 
in this committee hearing? What are the other challenges for 
school districts trying to adapt to distance education?
    Mr. Johnson. People are social creatures by nature and that 
is how we learn as well. We don't learn well or meet well over 
our screens. That is very true for our younger students, and 
the impact a teacher has when they are physically in that 
classroom with students cannot be underestimated or ever 
undervalued.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you.
    And hopefully we can get our school districts open just 
after Labor Day and try to get things back to normal as quickly 
as possible. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    And I would say there was some feedback in that last 
exchange. We could hear okay, but there was a little echo. 
Okay. If people in the room would use earphones, that would cut 
most of that echo.
    The young gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms. Wild.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I would like to direct my first question to Ms. Pringle of 
the National Education Association. At the beginning of this 
pandemic, many schools moved instruction online and engaged 
students in remote learning, but because of the structural 
inequities that we know exist in public education systems, 
schools with more resources adjusted to remote learning much 
more quickly.
    In my home State of Pennsylvania 7, the Lehigh Valley of 
Pennsylvania, school districts with more resources and higher 
income families were able to begin online instruction weeks 
before their neighboring school districts which received less 
funding and enrolled more low-income students.
    The uneven transition to online learning I think 
exacerbates learning loss amongst students, meaning that 
students will lose the educational and academic progress that 
they have once achieved.
    So I guess my question, first of all, to you is what 
academic effects do you expect to see as a result of these 
students' uneven transition to remote learning as we move 
forward and hopefully do get children back in the classroom, 
students back in the classrooms?
    And also I want, as part of that, have some students been 
disproportionately left behind in the transition to remote 
learning?
    Ms. Pringle. Thank you, Congresswoman. Absolutely, we know 
that we could have anticipated it because we know that over 12 
million of our students across the country did not have access 
to the internet or access to digital tools that allowed them to 
continue their learning.
    And we saw things vary exactly the way you described it, 
based on whether or not those school districts, those families, 
those communities had resources or whether they did not. We 
have too many of our students who are living in poverty, are 
students of color who did not--not only didn't have those 
digital tools, but they had parents who had two and three jobs 
who were essential workers and couldn't sit down with them to 
actually make sure they were connected.
    Ms. Pringle. Or those families might have had a device, but 
everyone in the family had to use the same device. And if that 
parent had to use those devices to continue to work, then we 
saw that our students weren't able to join. And so we saw--we 
heard from teachers all over the country where they had maybe 
only 50 percent of their students who were present in the 
classrooms.
    They know that the learning for those students is 
interrupted, and so they are looking at ways right now that 
they can reach out, and they have been doing that after hours, 
reaching out to students and parents, and trying to make up for 
that, dropping off learning packets, going and sitting outside 
of students' homes, by the way. We have teachers who are doing 
that too.
    But we know that these are issues. This digital divide is 
not new. In fact, we put together a homework gap collaboration 
back in February before our students were out, because we knew 
that gap existed. And so we are fighting hard to make sure that 
the Federal Government provides the resources to close that 
gap, and asking for that additional $4 billion to do just that, 
to invest in the E-Rate program.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you, and you anticipated my next question, 
but first let me say that I do believe that most teachers, even 
in good times, go above and beyond what is expected of them and 
required of them, to--that they really have a passion for 
helping students learn, and they are certainly to be commended.
    So my next question is, how can schools start preparing to 
address the learning loss that the students have experienced as 
a result of this interrupted school year? What kind of 
challenges do you think that the students and the teachers are 
going to face? As we move into the fall, let's assume that 
everybody is back in school.
    Ms. Pringle. So Congresswoman, let me tell you what we are 
talking about with our teachers in the country. That, you know, 
we have a shared responsibility to meet the needs of all 
students. And so we are asking everyone to come together and do 
their part. So we are having those conversations right now, 
trying to make sure that everything our students need, 
including those social, emotional needs, are being met, and we 
are beginning that work before they go back to school.
    But even when they get back to school, we need to make sure 
that they come back to school in safe environments. If our 
students don't feel safe and supported, they can't learn. So we 
are working hard with community members, with educators, with 
lawmakers, elected and appointed officials, to make sure that 
we have the resources our students need, our educators need, 
our parents need, to meet the needs of every one of our 
students.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    My distinguished colleague from Virginia, Mr. Cline.
    Mr. Cline. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to also echo the 
comments of everyone on this committee who praised the 
hardworking men and women in our educational systems at the 
local level for the great job they did in the spring, getting 
our kids educated back home, getting them the information they 
needed, and even now, preparing for the fall term. It is a 
really, really outstanding job that everyone has come together 
to do.
    This committee has the important task of working on policy 
that can better allow future generations to flourish through 
having a quality education. We must remember that policy we 
implement in response to COVID-19 now will have lasting 
implications on students' opportunities in the future.
    I am glad we are having a hearing today on the topic of 
budgeting as it relates to education, but I believe the focus 
needs to be on evaluating what we have already spent before 
rushing to put our Nation unnecessarily deeper in debt. We owe 
it to students to carefully examine our spending instead of 
blindly spending more hard-earned tax dollars.
    During the 2018-2019 school year, the Federal Government 
contributed $59 billion to education. States spent $362 
billion, and localities spent $332 billion. Additionally, 
almost $79 billion came from other sources, mostly coming from 
private philanthropies. This comes to a total of $832 billion.
    As these numbers show, the majority of funding for 
education comes from States and localities. And from my time 
serving in the Virginia House of Delegates--and I know the 
chairman did as well--I know how important it is to maintain 
those strong fiscal ties as close as possible to the homes and 
schools they serve. Each State and district have unique needs 
and priorities, and government should be enabling those closest 
to it to serve them as they best see fit.
    The CARES Act nearly doubled the amount of core Federal 
education funding provided to school districts for fiscal year 
2020 by providing $13.5 billion to State and school districts 
through the Educational Stabilization Fund. It provides $3 
billion to governors who to award grant to elementary and 
secondary schools, institutions of higher education, and other 
education-related entities, and gave the Secretary the ability 
to allow for more flexibility in repurposing current funds for 
technology needs. And that is something that we want to focus 
on, that flexibility.
    Mr. Johnson, there has been a lot of discussion today about 
how the Federal Government needs to spend billions more 
[Inaudible.] taxpayer funds, but how could the Federal 
Government use that flexibility to assist States and school 
districts in other ways? Are there flexibilities in Federal law 
that have not been yet--been used to help those States and 
localities that could be useful?
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you for the question. Again, I sound 
like a broken record, but we would love to have flexibility 
from the high stakes standardized assessments. Understanding 
that we are not going to replace accountability, because when 
the Federal Government invests in education, you want to make 
sure that students are getting the education that they so well 
deserve. That would be a true highlight.
    And then beyond that, I think probably share the sentiments 
of many people testifying today that with Federal dollars that 
are coming for this crisis, do not put too many strings 
attached to them. Let districts spend that on the needs that 
they have.
    Mr. Cline. And to what extent are you engaging with 
businesses and other private sector entities to assist with 
school districts' responses to COVID-19?
    Mr. Johnson. We actually have had a lot of educational 
vendors step up and offer their platforms for free. That has 
been a local district decision. We just want to make sure they 
are high quality. We have had the industries that help with the 
connectivity provide services for free during the crisis. 
Hopefully that is something that can continue.
    And on another topic, you know, we are making sure that we 
connect the business and job world to what is going on in the 
classroom, so we better connect students to see all the 
pathways.
    In North Carolina, a great example, even in the midst of 
this COVID-19, are the jobs that are available in some kind of 
computing or coding services. We have tens of thousands of jobs 
still open, even with this crisis, and that could be a high 
valued credential, or an associate's degree, or if students 
want a 4-year degree, we are making sure we are partner with 
business to make sure students know their path.
    Mr. Cline. Great. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    The gentleman from California, Mr. Harder.
    Mr. Harder. Thank you. It is good to see you, Mr. Chairman, 
and thank you so much for holding this hearing.
    My first question is for Dr. Leachman. Dr. Leachman, it is 
clear that we are looking at the kind of strain on school 
districts that we haven't seen in a decade. How did States, 
families, and school districts cope with the massive fiscal 
strain of the Great Recession? And how do you expect this 
crisis to be similar or different than what we just went 
through the last decade?
    Mr. Leachman. Thank you, Congressman, I appreciate that 
question. As I briefly mentioned earlier, the Federal aid that 
was provided under the Recovery Act, during the Great Recession 
was really important, but it only covered about a quarter of 
State budget shortfalls, and it ended too soon, when States 
were still struggling to meet their needs. As a result, States 
enacted lots of layoffs and cuts, and those layoffs and 
spending reductions slowed the economy's recovery in a 
significant way.
    And the impact at the school level was pronounced, and so 
just to take a couple of examples, in Georgia, the school year 
was shrunk, there were reductions. Arizona ended its full-day 
kindergarten. Those kinds of effects were widespread, and in 
many cases are still with us today. I mentioned that there are, 
even heading into the pandemic, there were 77,000 fewer 
teachers and other school workers in our schools in this 
country than there were when the Great Recession took hold, and 
yet we are trying to teach one and a half million more kids.
    Mr. Harder. Thank you, Dr. Leachman. What lessons do you 
think we can learn from the Great Recession to better support 
States and school districts during this pandemic?
    What did we do right, that we should do again, or what did 
we maybe not do that we should think about now?
    Mr. Leachman. Well, substantially, it is really crucial, 
the aid that was provided to States and localities made a big 
difference. Numerous economists across the political spectrum 
have looked at this issue and found significant bang for the 
buck in State and local aid because it keeps economic activity 
going. It makes sure that you are not laying off people at 
exactly the worst time.
    But we should take a lesson from the Recovery Act in 
assuring that the aid that we provide is enough, so that States 
don't have to do those layoffs and make those cuts, and that it 
stays in place as long as it is needed. As I mentioned, the 
Recovery Act aid ended in 2011. In 2012, you can see it happen, 
you can see that States imposed cuts that year that are still 
with us today. So it needs to be enough, and it needs to stay 
on as long as it is needed.
    Mr. Harder. Thank you. My next question is for Ms. Pringle. 
Ms. Pringle, what actions can we take to make sure that we are 
protecting teachers and students, especially those who are in 
at-risk groups, from COVID-19? What can Congress do to help 
them out?
    Ms. Pringle. Well, the language in the HEROES Act, 
Congressman, goes a long way to do just that. Making sure that 
we have PPE for our students, as well as our educators, making 
sure that we are addressing the needs that already existed in 
buildings that were not safe for our students, that had issues 
with rats and rodents, poor air quality, those kinds of issues 
need to be addressed, and we--
    And the funding that is provided for in the HEROES Act can 
do some of that. It is not enough, as I said before, but at 
least it is taking the steps in the right direction.
    We also need to make sure that we have enough educators, 
not only our teachers, but we need our support staff who 
support them, from school secretaries to para professionals, to 
bus drivers. We need to make sure that we have additional 
counselors and nurses. We have to be able to address 
[Inaudible.] as well. So we have got to make sure we have the 
funding to do those things.
    Mr. Harder. Thank you, Ms. Pringle.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Thank you.
    The gentleman from Idaho, Mr. Fulcher? The gentleman from 
Idaho, Mr. Fulcher?
    The gentleman from Kansas, Mr. Watkins? The gentleman from 
Kansas, Mr. Watkins?
    The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Wright? The gentleman from 
Texas, Mr. Wright?
    The gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Meuser?
    Mr. Meuser. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Ranking 
Member Dr. Foxx. Appreciate all those testifying today being 
here with us on a very important subject. Certainly it is 
absolutely essential we safely and responsibly open our schools 
to all of those who can attend. It is equally as important as 
safely and responsibly opening our economy.
    Mr. Johnson, the plans that you have outlined and work on 
and discuss and strategize, do they include funding for PPEs 
and other safety precautions, such as plexiglass and perhaps 
new areas for spacing out the students properly?
    Mr. Johnson. The short answer is no, we have not gotten to 
that decision point yet. There is work for the North Carolina 
governor's Department of Health and Human Services to work on 
funding for the school nurses and PPE for them. But again under 
the governor's requirements, we are not looking at having the 
requirement for PPE.
    The Federal CARES Act dollars that will be going to 
districts, that is something districts could use that money for 
if they decided to go beyond the guideline from our North 
Carolina Department of Health and Human Services.
    Mr. Meuser. Right. Are you looking at what other States are 
doing? Are you having a good level of communication on seeing 
who might have some best ideas and doing comparisons?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes, absolutely. We have been--a lot of 
education chiefs around the Nation have been in very frequent 
contact to share best practices. We also have been making sure 
that we listen to staff and teachers on the ground in North 
Carolina, and also we are watching other Nations who have 
already opened up schools to see how they are handling the 
situation.
    Mr. Meuser. Okay. Great. Are you beginning to figure out a 
budget estimate for that first tranche that I asked about, 
related to the PPEs and general safety within the classroom in 
school?
    Mr. Johnson. We are at the very beginning stages of that. I 
would not be able to provide you a number now from North 
Carolina. What we are watching is, again, North Carolina, the 
State government gave $50 million to districts, we are watching 
how that was spent. It has not all been spent yet.
    And then we are watching very closely how the CARES Act 
funding is spent. The highest priority from the districts, that 
they note in their applications, are connectivity and devices, 
as well as the extra supply that would be needed for when 
students and teachers safely return to school in the fall.
    Mr. Meuser. Are you beginning to weight it somewhat by 
where a hotspot was versus a more rural area that had very few 
cases? Have you taken that into consideration in your equation?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes. Yes, that will be taken into 
consideration. Our North Carolina State Board of Education will 
be making a determination on where the funds go that they have 
held back. And I do believe we will be addressing, with an eye 
towards equity and where the need is, especially when it comes 
to connectivity, in giving those dollars out.
    And the governor of North Carolina has indicated that he 
wants his plan to be statewide, but it could be regional based 
on the metrics.
    Mr. Meuser. Liability comes up all the time in higher ed. 
It is a significant concern certainly within pre-K through 12. 
What are your thoughts there? A State solution is one thing, a 
Federal solution is probably better. What are your thoughts on 
liability?
    Mr. Johnson. We would welcome any help that we can get on 
the Federal level. This is something we are looking at what 
already--already the protections in place in North Carolina 
State level, if we can do more, but the more we can do for our 
educators, the better, and any Federal help would be very 
welcomed.
    Mr. Meuser. Okay. Is there serious consideration being 
given to a safety officer in a school, for instance, to just 
assure and monitor that the safety standards continue?
    Mr. Johnson. We have not had discussions about that on a 
State level. That is something that absolutely would be school 
by school, but it is an idea that is on the table. And local 
districts right now are in the process of making their plans, 
to plan for the governor's requirements and guideline, and they 
will be submitting those as they have been finalized.
    Mr. Meuser. Great. Well, thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Thank you, and again, for people 
in the room, if you would use earphones, it would eliminate 
some of the feedback. We could hear all of the questions, so 
thank you. I thank the gentleman from Pennsylvania.
    The gentle lady from Georgia, Mrs. McBath.
    Mrs. McBath. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you so much 
for this timely and relevant hearing today, and I want to thank 
all of our witnesses for testifying, lending your time and your 
expertise. And I just want to say, you know, we are at a very 
critical point in our Nation's history. And 3 months ago we hit 
the coronavirus pandemic, and now in the midst of this 
pandemic, we are finally addressing another pandemic that has 
plagued our country for generations. We are talking about 
really the racism and the systemic inequities that causes this 
in our public school system.
    So millions of jobs have been lost due to COVID-19, and 
States, we are seeing, are decreasing the revenue for the 
upcoming fiscal year. My own State of Georgia, we have just 
been made known that--it has been announced that about 11 
percent of a reduction there will be in our budget for next 
year, which is just so devastating for us to undergo.
    And unfortunately, as we all know, when States start 
cutting their budgets, education is one of the first areas to 
be cut, and you know, our students frankly really do deserve 
much better.
    This fall school districts will be faced with how they are 
going to educate their students while staying socially 
distanced and how to address the racial inequities in the 
school system and the lack of diversity in our teaching 
workforce. So all of which will be exacerbated by budget 
shortfalls. And I am glad that we are here today to really 
start talking about finding solutions to these problems.
    And my first question is for Mr. Gordon. Mr. Gordon, there 
has been a lot of discussion about reopening schools and the 
normal, returning to normal, as we say, but you know it is 
really going to be a new normal. Given the health, education, 
and racial justice crisis in our country, what can Congress do 
to make sure that our students receive an education that meets 
or exceeds the standards that they deserve in the coming year? 
And we know that Mr. Leachman just kind of touched upon this a 
little bit earlier today, but could you expand on that, or do 
you have any thoughts?
    Mr. Gordon. Thank you, Congresswoman. I would just say that 
I think that this is a really important moment. Tamir Rice was 
my 12-year-old little boy in Cleveland who was shot 2 seconds 
after police got to a scene, so this is personal for me. What 
is different is that, in all of the past, we had to change the 
existing system. That is what I have been doing in Cleveland 
for the last 13 years is pushing against the existing system.
    The current education system, as we know it, has been 
obliterated. So we not only can't go back there, as you have 
heard from my colleagues, but we don't have to. We can actually 
design systems that are more fair and just and good for our 
kids.
    One of the things we know is that children who are living 
in deep poverty--Cleveland has the highest childhood poverty of 
any major city--it is not just education; it is the entire 
environment. I actually, for a period of time, left urban 
education and worked in one of the most affluent school systems 
in Ohio, almost exclusively white, and the learning that was 
happening was not just the time in my classroom, but it was the 
learning happening when they were with family, all of the 
enrichment experiences that they had, many of which my kids 
will never have access to. And so I think that Congress really 
has an opportunity to seize this, to say how do we, in the 
short-term--and that being the next several years--continue to 
support the most fragile children through the Federal programs 
that I mentioned earlier, but how do we do it with an eye on 
diversifying wealth in our communities, because that is the 
exit.
    If you can't own a home, like many Black and Brown people 
simply cannot because they can't get a mortgage, you never have 
wealth to leverage against to send your child to college or to 
do the things that middle-income families have.
    So, I would really urge Congress to take this opportunity 
to evaluate how do we start reintroducing wealth into 
communities so that these communities become self-sustaining 
and carry forward as opposed to simply continuing to fund the 
programming that has kind of reinforced the status quo. You 
can't log out until there is something else for it, so I think 
this is an opportunity unlike any other.
    Mrs. McBath. But thank you so much for that answer.
    And Ms. Pringle, according to the National Center for 
Education, both statistics, the teacher workforce is nearly 80 
percent white, while a majority, and growing, of the public-
school students are of color.
    What are your thoughts to use this moment as a means to 
reboot, to diversify the teacher workforce? And what happens to 
students when they actually have the opportunity to be able to 
be taught by individuals and teachers that look like them?
    Ms. Pringle. Thank you, Congresswoman, and I want to thank 
the chairman, because he has been leading those efforts as 
well. We have known for far too long that our teaching 
workforce does not reflect our--what our students are coming to 
school facing from their communities, from their homes. We know 
there is a racial disparity in our teachers versus our 
students, and that has been for a long time.
    So, we need to do something at this moment about that, and 
I want to say this. Not only does it impact in a positive way 
our students of color, but all students need to see teachers of 
color as well. It improves the learning of all of our students.
    And so as we think about how we are allocating resources 
from the HEROES Act, which we know we will fight so hard to 
make sure we have those funds, that some of those funds will be 
used, not only to recruit Black and Brown teachers--and this is 
really important to remember--we have our teachers of color 
leaving the teaching profession at a disproportionate rate. So 
we have to focus on their retention. We know we can do that, if 
we have the resources to change what is happening in our 
schools.
    Mrs. McBath. Thank you so much, and my time is up. Thank 
you for your answers.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman from South Dakota, 
Mr. Johnson? The gentleman from South Dakota, Mr. Johnson?
    The gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Keller?
    Mr. Keller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Glad to be able to be 
here in Washington to participate in this important hearing. 
And again, having gone toward the end here, many of my 
questions have been answered, but I do have a few things that 
did pop up. You know, in looking at what we have already done 
as far as CARES funding--and I will speak specifically to 
Pennsylvania--between the governor's Emergency Education Relief 
Fund, the Elementary and Secondary School Emergency Relief 
Fund, and the Higher Education Emergency Relief Fund, 
Pennsylvania has received over $713 billion. And when we look 
at this--$713 million, sorry. And when we look at all the money 
that has been received, it hasn't all been disbursed yet.
    And when looking at what we are doing in going forward, I 
think it is a little premature to say we need to do more, 
because I think the point has already been made, that our kids 
are going to be the--our students, the ones we care so much 
about, are going to end up paying this debt back. So I think we 
need to make sure it is very well invested.
    And my good colleague from Pennsylvania, Mr. Meuser, asked 
a couple questions regarding budgeting, and, you know, so do we 
know if the States or what percentage of the States--and I 
guess I will ask you, Mr. Johnson since you have been working 
with North Carolina--do you know how much of the money in North 
Carolina has already been distributed?
    Mr. Johnson. It has not been much of the money. Again, $95 
million was to the governor. That has not gone out yet; $230 
million came from the General Assembly through the large relief 
package. That is in the process of going out. Then the 
Education Stabilization Fund is roughly $400 million in North 
Carolina. That has just finished through its applications, and 
districts will be applying, will be accessing those and drawing 
down, but that has not happened yet.
    Mr. Keller. So we think that many of the States are 
probably in the same situation where they have not driven all 
the money out yet?
    Mr. Johnson. I can't answer for other States. It might be a 
State by State, but I can tell you, North Carolina, we have not 
done the governor's fund yet, we have not done the General 
Assembly's fund. All that is in the works, of allotments and 
getting it out, but also the school districts have not drawn 
down their funds yet either.
    And the State relief funds, which is just North Carolina, 
the $50 million, not all that has been spent yet either. And so 
we are watching that closely, but that will give us an 
indication of where districts are spending for their need.
    Mr. Keller. And I guess I would follow up on the need, 
because I have heard many people tell us that this isn't 
enough, but do we know what--any budget numbers for what 
districts think they are going to need moving forward for their 
plans, whether it is PPE, whether it is distance education, and 
those things? Do we have any idea what that might be costing?
    Mr. Johnson. There are definitely estimates out there. I 
would say in North Carolina, we do not have hard numbers. We 
have plans that range from recommendations from the governor to 
requirements. At districts right now, we are trying to put 
together how they will respond to those plans. So we should 
have those numbers in the weeks ahead.
    And then we also have the CARES Act funding that will help 
support those plans as they come closer to fruition.
    Mr. Keller. So would it be fair to say that some of the 
plans that are forthcoming would have funding through money 
already appropriated by Congress?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes. That is absolutely fair to say for--
especially I can say that for North Carolina, yes.
    Mr. Keller. Yeah, I think that might be a lot of the case, 
you know, across our Nation. In looking at Pennsylvania, in 
addition to the CARES funding--excuse me--the stuff for 
education, there was also the $150 billion, and Pennsylvania 
got $4.9 billion into the treasury. And they are still sitting 
on, you know, over $1 billion of that money too.
    So there has been a lot of things that have been done to 
help the States, and I think the biggest--or the best thing we 
can do as a Nation is safely reopen our economy. Because as 
been mentioned, many of the things are because of budget 
shortfalls.
    And some States I would imagine have less of a budget 
shortfall because of the way they handled their reopening, 
their closing, their reopening, more so than other States. 
Because I know in Pennsylvania, it was a total mess. The 
governor didn't have a good plan and shut businesses and had 
waivers and a whole bunch of different, a lot of confusion on 
top of an already tenuous situation. So wouldn't you think that 
reopening our economy safely might be helpful to our districts?
    Mr. Johnson. Absolutely. We should reopen safely, and we 
should get students and teachers back to school as safely as we 
possibly can. That would be the ideal situation for--I believe 
everyone would agree that would be the ideal situation. We have 
to make sure we do it safely.
    Mr. Keller. I appreciate that. And that even goes even for 
our committee hearings, because I did hear some of our 
educators on the meeting here today mention about how it is 
good to be able to see the reaction of people where they are 
students, between the student and the teacher, and how they are 
interacting.
    I think that is still valuable too when we are talking 
about Members of Congress communicating with one another or 
with the witnesses that are here in the room. I think there is 
a lot of value in making sure that we lead by example and we 
make sure that we are back doing the people's work. We are 
supposed to be meeting in Congress, not in our living rooms. 
Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady from Washington, 
Dr. Schrier?
    Ms. Schrier. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our 
witnesses for your compelling testimonies. I first just want to 
say that it is a joy to be able to do this safely from my home, 
to see your faces. If we were in person, we would be in masks, 
and I just appreciate this effort to be in the 21st Century.
    I have two areas of questions. The first is a really quick 
one and just regards public education funding, and the second 
is about issues with the reopening of schools. And so 
education, no question, is one of the most important 
investments we make as a country.
    Dr. Leachman, could you break down super quickly, in terms 
of percentage funding of K12 education, how much the Federal, 
State, and local governments contribute?
    Mr. Leachman. Yes, Congresswoman. States provide 47 
percent, local governments, mostly school districts, provide 45 
percent, and the remainder is from the Federal Government.
    Ms. Schrier. And so given that data--I just want to really 
drive home this point that I know you want to make--what is the 
number one, single, most important thing Congress can do to 
support K12 education right now?
    Mr. Leachman. Provide aid to States and localities that 
they can get to schools, so they don't have to lay people off 
and make cuts that we know will hurt our kids.
    Ms. Schrier. Thank you. I appreciate that. And, of course, 
the need for State funding is even more important for 
underserved communities because States can make up for 
differences that local governments can't get from property 
values, for example.
    The second question is--I am a pediatrician. I like to make 
evidence-based decisions. My first question, by the way, will 
be for Ms. Pringle, but I first wanted to just say, there is a 
lot we still don't know about this virus. We do know that in 
the general population, 25 to 50 percent of the people with 
this infection don't have symptoms. We know they can still 
spread it. We know there are several days that they can spread. 
We know that masks are effective, and so I am surprised that 
North Carolina will not be requiring masks in the classroom.
    We also know that children, at least acutely, are not so 
much affected and that this inflammatory syndrome is rare. And 
so the goal here is not necessarily to protect the children but 
to protect the teachers and the community at large and the 
families, and the families who are most at risk like the 
families in Cleveland are exactly the ones whose parents are 
more likely to die from this illness.
    So I wanted to ask, Ms. Pringle, first of all, can we learn 
anything from other countries that have opened schools, who has 
done it successfully, and how have they managed to do that?
    Ms. Pringle. So, Congresswoman, first of all, let me thank 
you for taking care of our babies. It is absolutely essential 
that we figure out how to open our schools safely. And there 
are a lot of lessons for those countries who have taken those 
safeguards, to protect their students. And by the way, you are 
right, all that you just said is correct.
    But here is the thing, everything impacts learning. 
Everything. So if our students' families are not secure in 
their health, in housing, in economics, then that is going to 
impact their learning. So we can't only think about what is 
happening in schools, we have to think about what is happening 
in their communities.
    And so when we look to other countries, they have those 
social safety nets in place already. And with the pandemic, 
they realize that is where they needed to invest. They needed 
to make sure that the entire, the whole family, was healthy and 
they got the support they needed. They needed to make sure that 
their families--that the parents were earning an income so they 
could feed their children. You know our babies can't learn if 
they are hungry. So there are all of those lessons to look at.
    Ms. Schrier. Oh, I ran out of time. Okay, thank you. I 
yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentleman from North 
Carolina, Dr. Murphy? Dr. Murphy?
    Mr. Thompson. He is on. He is just trying to figure out how 
to unmute is all.
    Chairman Scott. Okay. He has to unmute.
    Mr. Thompson. There we go.
    Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Johnson 
for--I know it has been a long day for all our witnesses, and I 
appreciate you guys coming and sharing your expertise. 
Obviously we are in a very, very challenging time. None of us 
have lived through this before, and as I have said many times, 
we are kind of building a plane while we are flying it.
    I think everybody in this committee room and everybody 
sitting at home shares in the belief that we should care about 
our children and their education. That is what their future is 
about, educating them. And I think we all share a deep concern 
in that. I think we have some different ideas about how that 
best can be achieved, but I think we are all together on the 
same page about how we get there.
    You know, parents with kids being at home have been 
challenged. They are not trained teachers, and a lot of them 
don't want to be after this episode, and are happy to give 
their kids back. We need to get those kids back into school 
because not only the education that comes from a book, but also 
the education that comes from socialization, and that is 
critical.
    And you know, balancing these things, balancing their 
safety, balancing their welfare, is critical. It can be done. 
Other countries have demonstrated that it can be done. And I 
believe if we keep hiding under the sheet, we are not doing our 
children any good in the future. I do think that children do 
not learn nearly as well from online learning as they do in 
person. I don't believe they do--they learn from computers as 
well as they do from textbooks and writing those things down. 
Maybe I am old-fashioned that way.
    But I think we are all on the same page, and I think we are 
really working towards the same goal. I appreciate what you 
guys are doing.
    Just a couple questions because I know it has been a long 
day that I am going to direct towards Mr. Johnson. Thank you 
for the work that you are doing in North Carolina. Just, you 
know, I just want to clear up a few things about charter 
schools. Just if you don't mind answering these questions. 
Charter schools teach students, correct, Mr. Johnson?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes, that is correct.
    Mr. Murphy. Okay. So they teach students. And in North 
Carolina, charter schools are open to any student that applies 
to them, correct?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes, that is correct.
    Mr. Murphy. Okay. So that would--that education in that 
charter school is provided by public sources, correct?
    Mr. Johnson. That is correct.
    Mr. Murphy. Okay. So charter schools in North Carolina are 
public schools?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes. In North Carolina, we label schools 
traditional public schools and public charter schools, yes. We 
also have a menu of options of magnet schools and cooperative 
innovative high schools, a lot of school choice in North 
Carolina that ultimately helps students.
    Mr. Murphy. Okay. Well, great. I just didn't want some 
misconception that kids who are going to charter schools are 
privileged or something. Every opportunity is affordable to any 
student, and a lot of the burden is borne upon their parents to 
take the initiative--which some parents do, some parents 
don't--about educating their children. So I just wanted to 
clarify that.
    You know, I feel like sometimes some of my colleagues want 
it both ways, where they want to get the kids educated, but 
they also want to keep them sheltered, which we all do, but 
understand the reality of things is that a lot of students--and 
we talk especially about minority students--either don't have 
access or don't have the social backing, you know, to get 
online learning.
    So how do you, in your opinion, in just a very short time, 
how do we balance that moving forward? How do we do that for 
our children in North Carolina? What is the best move forward? 
Because I do believe that online learning, while it has its 
place, does not have--it should not take the priority place for 
our children.
    Mr. Johnson. Well, what we are very much hoping to have a 
decision on by July 1, we are really hoping that our governor 
will implement his plan A, that is, getting students, as many 
as possible, as safely as possible, back into school buildings. 
That means that social distancing will be a part of that 
strategy, but it won't hamper any students from getting into 
the building. And there will be options for students who might 
be at high-risk, for teachers who might be at high risk to 
continue remote learning or to have other set-ups in the 
physical school building.
    But we know that we really want to get our students and 
teachers back into the physical classrooms because that is 
where most learning occurs.
    Mr. Murphy. All right. I believe that is my time. I thank 
you, all the witnesses for coming today, and I appreciate the 
work that you guys all do.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I will yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady from Illinois, 
Ms. Underwood?
    The gentle lady from Illinois, Ms. Underwood?
    The gentle lady from Illinois is recognized for 5 minutes 
to ask questions. Ms. Underwood, can you hear me?
    Ms. Underwood. On a press conference.
    Chairman Scott. Oh, okay.
    The gentlelady from Connecticut, Mrs. Hayes?
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. A couple things. Can you 
hear me okay? Wait, I can't hear you now.
    Chairman Scott. I can hear you.
    Mrs. Hayes. Oh, okay. I have heard many Members talk about 
the fact that we are doing this hearing remotely. I just would 
like to just make a statement that in the over a year since I 
have been in Congress, I have sat in hours' long committee 
hearings and markup, gavel to gavel, and seen empty chairs on 
both sides. I have seen hearings where Members weren't even 
there for testimony and just came in to vote, and I have always 
assumed that they were working remotely and listening from 
their offices or the anteroom. So I remind you that it is just 
geography, and we can still continue this work.
    Thank you, everyone, for being here. Thank you, Mr. Chair, 
for holding this hearing.
    Ms. Pringle, you brought up something earlier that I want 
to touch on, and you talked about we need to--we have invested 
in bailing out businesses and all these other things, and we 
need to do the same thing for public education.
    I have heard my colleagues use terms like Herculean efforts 
that teachers have done or are referred to teachers as 
superheroes. Yet we are not willing to make those investments. 
And I think we all want to be good stewards over taxpayer 
money. We invested $650 billion into the Payroll Protection 
Plan. Half of that was allocated, and then we went back with a 
second round of funding before that first round was even used 
up, because we anticipated that this money would be needed.
    The Constitution says nothing about small businesses, last 
I heard, but we knew that because of the pandemic and what was 
going on, that this was something that we needed to make an 
investment in, for the impending crisis.
    So again, as I have said so many times before, we are 
always thanking teachers and talking about how wonderful they 
are and the Herculean efforts that they are making, yet fail to 
invest when teachers need us.
    I would like for you to tell us just a little bit about--
you talked about something that we haven't really talked a lot 
about--is those, the trauma that kids will have returning to 
the classroom. Can you talk a little bit about that and talk 
about why it is important to make those investments before we 
get to the bottom of the pot, when there is no money left, and 
it is empty? How can--since we already can anticipate what will 
happen.
    You are muted.
    Ms. Pringle. Thank you. Congresswoman Hayes, it is so good 
to see you. This was an issue brought up by teachers within 
your own State that I talked with last week. And this is not 
new. We know that particularly in our vulnerable communities, 
our students with special needs, our Black and Brown students, 
our students living in poverty, that they come to us already 
with trauma. Food insecurity, housing insecurity, economic 
insecurity, all of those things are finding those ways into our 
schools anyway.
    We know that too often they rely on schools for their 
meals, not just for themselves but their families, as well as 
healthcare. So that is already there.
    Now on top of that, we have the pandemic. We know that our 
students are seeing family members get sick, some who have 
experienced tragic losses, and we know they will come back to 
us having the need for someone that is there, trained 
professionals, who will help to meet those needs. You are a 
teacher. You know if you don't meet those needs, they are not 
going to learn. It is not going to happen.
    And so for us to be thinking about starting school with 
less teachers, less counselors, less nurses, are you kidding 
me? It is when we need more of those educators to surround our 
students with that support. This is what we need our Members of 
Congress to step up to. We need those additional supports for 
our students.
    They are watching. Congresswoman Hayes, they are watching, 
right? They are already traumatized by what is happening with 
the uncertainty in the world. And now we are seeing killings in 
our communities of color, and they are wondering why, why is it 
happening, will they be next? We have got to create the space 
for them to have those conversations, and we have got to know 
that we have educators there to provide them with the 
individual attention they must have so they can learn.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you, Ms. Pringle. You are absolutely 
right, I do know these things. It is just, I wanted it on the 
record for my colleagues to hear, because I questioned when we 
start our first COVID relief package, included airlines, and 
now we are talking about budget cuts for schools. Blows my 
mind.
    My next question is for Mr. Gordon. How do you plan to 
address the needs of students who come from vulnerable--who 
themselves are vulnerable or come from households where they 
have members of their family with health conditions and may not 
feel comfortable returning to school in the fall?
    So even if the schools open, if kids or families don't feel 
safe, how do we address those needs?
    Mr. Gordon. So in our district, we are anticipating having 
three to five different scenarios that we can turn on or off, 
dependent on the health and safety factors that are in our 
community, and one of those is those families that are either 
physically vulnerable and cannot return, or emotionally 
vulnerable and will not. And so we are planning to deepen our 
investments in homeschooling and E-school options. We used to 
have that in kind of a contract. We think we need our teachers 
trained to do that, as well as deepening our investments in 
social and emotional learning practices.
    We have had over a decade of working with a collaborative 
of academic, social and emotional learning, so that we can help 
kids and families make these transitions safely and emotionally 
safely back into our school.
    We are right now running remote hotlines where we are 
watching for signs of neglect or anxiety or those sorts of 
things, so that we can connect our students to social workers 
or mental health services, and we will keep deepening those 
practices as well.
    So it is a blend of creating environments where students 
and families can be physically and emotionally safe, and then 
providing the support to move them into more open environments 
to the extent that it is reasonable and safe to do so.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is all I have.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Did the gentleman from South 
Dakota have an opportunity to ask questions?
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. I have not yet, sir, no.
    Chairman Scott. All right. The gentleman is recognized for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Thank you very much. My 
question would be for Mr. Johnson.
    Mr. Thompson, the gentleman from Pennsylvania, asked some 
questions about school lunch, but I was just curious, as we 
look forward, what should we--I mean, the next time we have 
this incredibly disruptive experience to onsite education, what 
do we make sure we do differently as far as the nutritional 
needs of the students?
    Mr. Johnson. Well, this is surely something that has been 
amazing from school nutrition services in our State. We really 
have done an amazing job, and thank you for the Federal waivers 
that actually allowed us to get so many meals out to so many 
students.
    One thing that we could do better is obviously as we know 
more about this virus and what we need to avoid, what we can do 
safely, getting students and families more access to the 
nutrition sites would be better.
    I mean, it is great that we had the ability to deliver 
school bus meals, but obviously getting families, and entire 
families, meals, is something that would be very important as 
well.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. So I mean, I will be a little 
unfair to you, so feel free to beg off or dodge, because I am 
not asking just about your State but what you know about being 
involved, you know, nationally. Were there particular things 
that the Federal Government didn't do, that we should have 
done, to provide your State or others the flexibility they 
needed to get this job done, feeding kids?
    Mr. Johnson. You know, it is not in my wheelhouse of 
expertise, but like many other Americans, we did see that once 
the demand at restaurants started going down, there were the 
crops and the food that was not in the supply chain. I know 
there have been lots of efforts to get that supply chain 
focused on helping feed students and families that need it. 
That would be something to look at if, heaven forbid, we have 
to go into a shutdown again.
    But again, we are all hoping that we are not going to be 
back in the same situation we were in March come this fall.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Yeah. Very good, very helpful.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for doubling back and giving me an 
opportunity. I appreciate it.
    You are muted, sir.
    Chairman Scott. The gentle lady from Florida, Ms. Shalala?
    Thank you.
    Ms. Shalala. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank 
you for your leadership. I have sat through this whole thing. 
It has been a very substantive and I think very thoughtful 
hearing.
    Mr. Gordon, I am a proud graduate of the Cleveland public 
schools. I grew up in Cleveland, and I know the schools very 
well, and I am very appreciative of your leadership. I am 
interested in data. Many national educational policy 
researchers are highlighting the importance of having accurate 
and publicly accessible data surrounding the at-home, virtual, 
and distance learning. They are doing this to shine a light on 
the inevitable gap that you talked about, that will 
disproportionately affect low income and minority students who 
are already struggling the most, particularly when it comes to 
attendance.
    While we don't have national or a State database system, of 
the 82 or so school districts that have publicly shared some 
information on distance learning, only 19 are tracking 
attendance. And I am proud to say that one of those is my own 
Miami-Dade County public schools--I represent most of Miami-
Dade, of Florida 27--and they are following up with a strategy 
to identify those young people.
    This has resulted in data showing which students have made 
the least progress or spent the least amount of hours taking 
classes online, which they are going to use to build an 
enhanced summer school program to help them catch up. But 
again, this is not the case for every school district in the 
country.
    How important is it that we collect this kind of data, and 
once we have it, how important is it to identify students and 
parents who haven't participated in virtual classes and target 
them with phone calls, emails, text messages, and actual visits 
to get the kids into these summer programs?
    Mr. Gordon. Thank you, Congresswoman. And I know you are a 
proud Cleveland graduate, so greetings from home.
    I would say that it is absolutely critical, but we also, 
many of us across the country, did not have the infrastructure 
to do the kind of job that Miami-Dade did. I am very familiar 
with the work they have done. Fortunately, they had already 
made deep investments in one-to-one technology and a single 
platform which made it a lot easier for them to do that.
    We were not that far along in Cleveland. As an example, we 
had a much more autonomous system of choice, which means our 
students and families found themselves having multiple 
different platforms to work with, if they even had access to 
the platform.
    We--you know, obviously much more difficult to measure how 
many students completed a learning package that we mailed into 
a home, than to monitor the dashboards of with these digital 
tools.
    We are currently researching through, as I mentioned 
earlier, our student, teacher, and parent surveys. We have been 
harvesting dashboards from all of the platforms to get some 
estimates of performance. And when we are permitted to be back 
with students, which we are not yet permitted in Ohio, we 
expect it is going to be individual assessments to see exactly 
where each child is.
    We did use some of our summer school resources, though, to 
extend learning, remote learning, for those students and 
families that we knew we had not reached effectively. And so, 
our teachers are still reaching out to those students and 
families, and we are still deploying all of our other 
enrichment activities that we did in the year, all summer, just 
so that we stay connected with those families until we can see 
them personally again.
    Ms. Shalala. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Pringle, if we don't pass the money for State and local 
governments that can be passed on to the school districts, do 
you expect more layoffs of teachers? I think that is a yes or 
no question.
    Ms. Pringle. Yes, Congresswoman. We already have had 
500,000. We expect, within the next 3 years, probably about 2 
million.
    Ms. Shalala. Thank you very much. And I resent any 
suggestion that the NEA or the AFT are not interested in the 
quality of education. My experience is just the opposite.
    Mr. Johnson, a quick question. The CDC guidelines have not 
been followed in North Carolina. North Carolina still has an 
increase in COVID-19 cases. Why is North Carolina talking about 
opening schools when they are not following the CDC guidelines? 
Isn't it dangerous to open schools when you are still seeing 
increases in COVID-19?
    Mr. Johnson. We are relying on the decisions by our North 
Carolina governor and his health advisers. We hope to get back 
to school as safely as possible, because we know that is where 
we want students and teachers. But obviously the metrics are 
going to determine the decisions that are made by his team.
    Ms. Shalala. But the metrics are showing the opposite, that 
it is not safe to reopen, according to the CDC. That is my 
concern. My concern is, it is hard to open up safely when you 
still have increases.
    Thank you, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you. Dr. Van Drew of New Jersey--
    I understand Ms. Underwood is back.
    Ms. Underwood. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Our public schools in northern Illinois are the pride of 
our community, and like schools across the country, they are 
facing incredible financial and educational challenges from the 
coronavirus pandemic, which is why Congress prioritized 
emergency funding for K12 schools through the bipartisan CARES 
Act. And that was almost 3 months ago.
    Schools and students are still hurting. They need all of 
that money, but Secretary DeVos is holding it hostage, 
blatantly violating the intent of the CARES Act. Instead, she 
is pushing new, quote, ``equitable services,'' end quote, 
guidance, that redirects that funding away from public schools, 
counter to decades of education law.
    Under Secretary DeVos' guidance, public schools in West 
Aurora School District, just down the road, will lose $370,000 
of their CARES Act funding. And the Woodstock Community School 
District will lose over $75,000 in funds meant to support low-
income students.
    Mr. Gordon, these are not just numbers on a page. These are 
our kids and our teachers. You wrote in your testimony that 
your school district stands to lose a similar share of its 
CARES funds under this guidance. What would this mean for the 
students and teachers that you serve?
    Mr. Gordon. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    In our estimate, it is up to $2 million of money that would 
otherwise be going to my district which serves the highest 
childhood poverty in the Nation. I want to be clear that I am 
not opposed to equitable services. The Cleveland parochial 
system does serve a number of children in poverty, and those 
children deserve every bit of Congress' support as my children 
do.
    What this guidance is doing, though, is pushing dollars to 
children who do not live in poverty and away from those who do, 
and that is the problem with it.
    I represent the Ohio 8 Coalition. Across our coalition is 
$10 million in the State of Ohio's eight large urbans alone, 
and we know from the national look that it is millions and 
millions more. So it is really critical that the dollars be 
distributed in the way that Congress intended because, as I 
mentioned, of the $24 million that we believe will be--well, we 
know will be drawing down from Ohio, $15 million will be going 
to already unplanned expenditures, another $5.6 to my State cut 
that already occurred, leaving only $4 million left to even 
begin thinking about investing in the next school year.
    Ms. Underwood. Thank you so much.
    Can you expand on--to Ms. Pringle, can you expand on just 
how unprecedented and harmful to public education Secretary 
DeVos's actions are from a policy perspective?
    Ms. Pringle. So from the beginning--thank you, 
Congresswoman Underwood.
    From the beginning, Secretary DeVos has made clear that her 
goal is to destroy public education, by siphoning money away 
from our public schools, by putting it in the hands of those 
who are not interested in making sure that our public schools 
have the funds they need so they can successfully educate all 
of our students. And we know that it is an issue of equity.
    We need to understand that for all of our students to be 
successful, we have to ensure that we provide the resources 
they need when they need it. And the Secretary is doing 
everything she can to undermine the will of Congress. And so 
let me say again to you, thank you for underscoring that in the 
Heroes Act, that she is not given the authority to change what 
your intention is to direct those funds to public schools. 
Public education is the foundation of this democracy.
    Ms. Underwood. Thank you.
    Ms. Pringle. And that was the intent of that act.
    Ms. Underwood. That is right.
    I am also concerned about the facts of this pandemic on 
students' mental health, especially those who may be 
experiencing increased stress or trauma during this time. A 
number of educators in my district have reached out to me 
needing additional resources in order to fully support kids' 
mental health.
    Ms. Pringle, can you tell us more about how you and other 
educators are seeing this pandemic affect students' mental 
health and any specific resources, personnel, or funds, or 
anything else, that the schools would need in order to best 
serve these students in the short and long term?
    Ms. Pringle. Absolutely. Our students are experiencing 
trauma. They are experiencing loss. They are experiencing being 
away from their fellow students. They are experiencing a level 
of uncertainty that makes it very difficult for them to learn. 
And so we have got to make sure that we have the healthcare 
professionals, enough teachers, enough nurses and counselors. 
All of those things are important, but most especially they 
need to know that they are coming back to safe schools, safe 
schools. So, we have to make sure that when we welcome them 
back, they feel like they are safe and are prepared to learn.
    Ms. Underwood. Thank you so much for all you do. Thank you 
for the witnesses for being here.
    And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    Mr. Levin, the gentleman from California.
    Mr. Levin. Yes. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, for 
holding this really important hearing.
    I want to--I have been listening right along, and I have a 
feeling we may have some agreement on something.
    Mr. Johnson, I read that according to the North Carolina 
Department of Public Instruction, 300,000 students in North 
Carolina lack internet access at home. And you have mentioned, 
and I so agree with you, that we would all love to get kids 
back to the classroom as soon as we can do it safely. But even 
when we do, around the country there are likely to be outbreaks 
and kids will have to deal with this remote learning.
    So, would you consider it a public policy priority to make 
sure everybody has access to the internet at home through high-
speed access?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes, I think that is something that Congress 
should definitely look into. I will not, again, get out of my 
wheelhouse and claim to be the expert on this. How that is done 
can take many different forms.
    Mr. Levin. Right.
    Mr. Johnson. There are a lots of different ways now coming 
up--
    Mr. Levin. But as an educator, you think it would be a 
priority.
    And, Mr. Gordon, you represent a large urban school 
district. Would you consider that to be a priority as well?
    Mr. Gordon. Yes, not only for education, but for everything 
else that we rely on by accessing the internet.
    Mr. Levin. Right. So I really hope that as we move forward 
on infrastructure, Republicans and Democrats will work together 
to provide all of our people, our rural and urban kids, access 
to broadband because, as Congresswoman Shalala said, we have a 
ways to go before we are going to have everybody in classrooms 
safely all around this country.
    Ms. Pringle, let me turn to you. It is good to see you. You 
were talking with my colleague, Representative Underwood, about 
Secretary DeVos just a few minutes ago. You know, as a 
Michigander, I know all about Ms. DeVos and her long crusade to 
destroy public education in this country. But I want to talk 
about systemic racism.
    You know, the rules she proposed would funnel money away 
from school districts and the students most impacted by COVID-
19 to private schools. She claims all students are impacted by 
COVID-19 and so all students deserve funding. That is like 
yelling ``All lives matter'' in response to the Black Lives 
Matter Movement.
    I wanted to ask you about this question. You know what, a 
2016 study in Michigan by Bridge Magazine found that in the 
2009-2010 school year, about 64 percent of choice students 
moved to a less diverse district, and that rate is now 
approaching 70 percent.
    So, talk to me about Ms. DeVos's policy and our effort at 
long last to deal with the systemic racism that has shaped this 
country since before we were a country.
    Ms. Pringle. So, Congressman, you know all too well that 
Michigan was a canary in the mind, right--
    Mr. Levin. Yes.
    Ms. Pringle.--of what Ms. DeVos intends to do with public 
education throughout this Nation. There is no question that we 
have--the country has been wrestling with this issue and 
unsuccessfully addressing the inequities that have persisted, 
quite honestly, forever.
    When the Elementary and Secondary Education Act was passed 
back in the sixties, the intent was for the Federal Government 
to step in and try to alleviate some of these inequities. We 
have gotten so far away from that.
    With ESSA being passed a couple of years ago, we tried to 
recenter that conversation around equity and access and 
opportunities. I know right now, I could take a clipboard into 
our best public school and list all of the things those 
students have, from AP courses to healthy environments where 
they can learn.
    I disagree, our public infrastructure--the infrastructure 
in our public schools must be addressed. It has always been 
there in the face of our students saying they don't deserve 
better than that.
    It is absolutely unacceptable that we have a Secretary of 
Education who doesn't understand what equity means. This is an 
opportunity for us to actually change what is happening in our 
public school systems, to change how we fund them, to make sure 
that when we say ``every,'' we mean every, that every one of 
our students has what they need.
    Mr. Levin. Really we couldn't say that we have taken on 
systemic racism in this country until we deal with the equity 
of funding in education, could we, in public education?
    Ms. Pringle. We absolutely cannot, absolutely cannot. And, 
by the way, we need to be talking about structural racism 
because all of those systems from housing to healthcare to 
economics impact whether our students can learn, all of them. 
We must do better as a country.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you so much.
    It is certainly true, Mr. Chairman, that even if you have a 
good school, if you don't have a home to live in, if you are 
hungry, you don't have food in your belly, if you don't have 
access to healthcare that you are not going to be able to 
thrive.
    So with that, I know we have passed the 4 o'clock hour, Mr. 
Chairman. I yield back, and I thank you again so much for your 
leadership on this issue.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    Let me see, the gentlelady from Minnesota, Ms. Omar.
    The gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Trone.
    Mr. Trone. Mr. Chairman, am I coming through?
    Chairman Scott. Yep, yep.
    Mr. Trone. Great. Thank you, Chairman Scott and Ranking 
Member Foxx, for holding this important hearing and a really 
big thank you for doing it remotely. I am right here on the 
Hill in my office safely and separated from the rest of the 
Members. So, it is great to be able to do this remotely, and 
thank you for your leadership and thinking about everybody's 
safety.
    The other thing I want to touch on was touched on by Member 
Levin, and I think we have seen this back and forth, 
Republicans, Democrats, we are all on the same page, but we 
have got to get something done on the broadband issue. It has 
hampered us here in tele-education, it has hampered us on 
telehealth, and it has hampered many areas like some of my 
counties on telework.
    Up to 40 percent of my students got zero because they don't 
have the broadband in certain counties. So, we have got to get 
this fixed. We owe it to the American people.
    Ms. Pringle, when the schools reopen, States will need to 
invest in meeting the social, emotional, mental health needs of 
their students, ensuring support for trauma and for healthcare 
and social and emotional learning, including offering 
professional development. Redesigning schools for stronger 
relationships and providing curriculum support is so important 
so we can build the tools to help our students, our kids work 
through all of the stress. Children can be confined at home. 
The families experience job loss, COVID. Hospitals are seeing 
severe cases of child abuse.
    So, building on what Member Underwood talked about, what is 
the percentage of schools that you think currently have enough 
counselors to help students cope with the trauma of this 
pandemic and how important is it that they get those resources? 
Give us a number.
    Chairman Scott. Who did you address that question to?
    Mr. Trone. Ms. Pringle
    Ms. Pringle. Thank you, Congressman. Thank you for that 
question.
    I don't know what that percentage is, but this is what I 
know. Far too many of our students, especially our students of 
color, those living in poverty, attend schools that are 
understaffed, from teachers to support professionals, 
especially nurses and counselors, and we know those healthcare 
professionals, specifically those who are trained in mental 
health services, are going to be more needed now than before, 
and we already had that need for them.
    We are so worried about the fact that even with the money 
that is allocated in the Heroes Act, that we are not going to 
have enough funds to meet the needs that are growing because of 
this pandemic. We are worried that we will not have the 
educators available to come into our schools and teach.
    We talked earlier about the fact that it is so important to 
have a diverse work force. We know that our students graduating 
from college, particularly our students of color, have more 
debt and are less likely to go into teaching or stay in 
teaching because they are overburdened by that debt.
    These are all issues we as a society must confront, and we 
are asking for our elected leaders to finally do something to 
change what is happening for our students. We know what they 
need. We need your support in giving them everything they need 
to be successful.
    Mr. Trone. I think we should add we need it now. We have 
got 2 months to go, and all of the trauma the Nation is going 
through now, on top of the financial collapse, on top of COVID, 
it is a trifecta that our kids are paying a price for. We have 
got 2 months to make some decisions and provide the assistance.
    Ms. Pringle. Right now. Thank you.
    Mr. Trone. The stress and trauma of COVID-19 can be 
mitigated by trauma-informed practices, fostering trusting 
relationships. This is for you, Mr. Gordon. Strategies include 
keeping or looping teachers with the same students, doing 
grades and incorporating social and emotional learning and all 
of the school experiences digital and in person.
    Mr. Gordon, how should the schools plan on meeting the 
social and emotional learning needs of students when they get 
reopened?
    Mr. Gordon. Congressman, thank you for the question.
    Fortunately, this is an area my district has been investing 
in for over a decade. There are great resources out there, from 
the collaborative of academic social and emotional learning 
that are guides for how we integrate social and emotional 
learning into every classroom experience so that our students 
are able to self-regulate, self-monitor, and participate. But 
it is also going to provide a lot more of the adult supports 
that you just were speaking of.
    And just to answer your question very directly, we know we 
have far too little in this community or the high need our 
children had before COVID-19, so we have been investing through 
philanthropy and partnerships with our county in additional 
social workers that our schools don't have. We don't have 
enough nurses, enough guidance counselors, things that when I 
worked in an affluent suburb community, I had access so even 
though my kids had less need.
    So it is got to be both integrating into the actual 
experiences, classroom experiences, the content development, 
but also having that support network in place, and that is why 
these resources are going to be so critical for us because, you 
know, communities like mine, our social and emotional learning 
work came out of a school shooting in 2007 where a young man 
took--shot two teachers, two students and took his own life. 
And we invested deeply in social and emotional learning, but we 
also invested in a hardening of security, and so we have more 
safety personnel in our district than we have counselors for 
social and emotional health.
    Mr. Trone. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you, thank you.
    Next, the young lady from Michigan, Ms. Stevens.
    Ms. Stevens. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and greetings from my 
office in Livonia, Michigan. It has been a wonderful hearing. I 
have been here for all of it. Thank you so much to our 
witnesses for your testimony.
    I will say I am so proud, I have been able to give the 
taxpayers a bang for their buck this morning. As part of my 
Manufacturing Monday Program, I visited Unified Business 
Technologies, which is a women-owned, minority-owned business 
in Troy, Michigan. It is owned by Michelle D'souza who came to 
this incredible country with $500 in her pocket and has grown 
this incredible business that today is making masks, is fixing 
electronic circuit breakers for the FAA, and also they have 
used this pandemic period to create a new tool called IRRUPT.
    IRRUPT is a machine that uses UV light to disinfect all 
types of surfaces. I don't know if any of you have yet had a 
chance to see the IRRUPT machine, but here is a picture of me 
using it today. It was just remarkable. I want to see this in 
our schools.
    I know our schools want to see this piece of equipment in 
their schools. It also works the arms while you are using it, 
and it is about 700 bucks. That is how much IRRUPT costs. And, 
again, it cleans, it disinfects the surfaces using UV light. 
And it was made right here in Michigan. And we want our 
schools--
    Ms. Pringle, I have heard you repeatedly. Mr. Gordon, thank 
you so much, safety, safety, safety, get back to certainty. 
And, Mark, I know--Mr. Johnson, you are at statewide 
superintendent. It has been nice to hear what is been going on 
in North Carolina.
    Mark, do you have any idea how much Michigan's budget 
shortfall is for our schools projected for next year?
    Mr. Johnson. I don't.
    Ms. Stevens. It is $1.3 billion, Mark, $1.3 billion for 
Michigan. And I got the Farmington School District, they are 
looking at a $3.5 million cut alone just for this next year. 
And then I have got the Rochester School District. They put 
together this brilliant safety plan, and I am a product of 
these Rochester Public Schools. I saw the blueprint of my old 
middle school, 219 new buses if they are going to do this 
safely.
    So, okay. Now, Mark, okay, are you familiar with this 
House--just on the off chance--State House Resolution No.
    267? Are you familiar with it? Okay, I will tell you, it is 
a resolution, quote, a resolution to memorialize the Congress 
of the United States to not enact a Federal bailout for the 
States.
    This came from the Michigan State House Republican 
conference, okay. This was introduced by Crawford, who is 
neighbors with Farmington, who represents Novi, Burmann of 
Commerce and West Bloomfield. I am just scratching my head 
because what does it mean for the state to reject the Federal 
assistance dollars?
    Who can talk to me about this? Maybe Gordon or Leachman, 
just real quick, if you are going to reject Federal assistance 
dollars similar to CARES, would that get your schools back on 
track?
    Ms. Stevens. No
    Mr. Gordon. Congresswoman, this is Eric Gordon. It wouldn't 
get our schools on track. We have already had a $5.6 million 
cut this year from my State.
    Ms. Stevens. Yeah. So this is a big issue, and so we are 
wondering about this. And then I hear my colleagues, who I have 
got respect for. I respect all of my fabulous colleagues in 
this committee. You know, they are saying we want to get back 
to work, right? They are saying we want to get back to work, 
but we have got to do it safely.
    So, tell me how an amazing company like the Unified 
Business Technologies gets this machine sold, right, it is 
getting people back to work, if our schools can't buy it? Do we 
have an answer for that? I don't think so.
    So, we need to get back to robotics training. That is being 
cut. We need to get our guidance counselors secured, and we 
have got to get the people who have been funded by Betsy DeVos 
to stop making our laws in Michigan.
    Thank you all so much.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you, thank you.
    The gentlelady from Nevada, Mrs. Lee.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you, 
Ranking Member, for having this important hearing.
    Also, I want to thank all of our witnesses today. First of 
all, thank you for your service to the students across this 
country and thank you for being here.
    I have to give a special shout-out to all of the teaching 
professionals and support professionals who literally at the 
drop of a dime went from teaching in person to online learning, 
dealing especially in a state like Nevada where we saw almost a 
third of our students lacking devices to do distance learning.
    And, you know, Nevada, like many States, we are planning 
for drastic reduction in our State revenues at a time when we 
are trying to plan to get back to school in an environment 
where we are already dealing with overcrowded classrooms.
    We don't know how we are going to pay for additional 
transportation, continue to have high quality distance 
learning, which I believe needs to include some high quality 
professional development as well, additional school meals.
    You know, our education shortfalls are running into the 
hundreds of billions of dollars, and we are already seeking 
cuts in Nevada where we have an $812 million budget hole caused 
by coronavirus.
    As a result of these closures to our local businesses and 
losses from crucial tax sources to pay for that budget, we are 
looking at an anticipated $265 million projected shortfall K to 
12 funding. We know many states across this country are 
planning for budget cuts in the 2020-2021 school year, but we 
have to be prepared to see continued shortfalls into the 2021-
2022 school year, and it is clear that incredibly tough 
decisions are going to have to be made.
    And I would like to ask Mr. Leachman and Mr. Gordon, can 
you please share with the Committee some of the cuts to the K 
to 12 education budgets that we can expect to see, including 
the likely impact of these cuts on programs and staff?
    Mr. Leachman. Sure. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    The first thing is because teachers will be laid off, other 
school workers that are crucial to the experiences of our kids 
will be laid off, librarians, counselors, nurses, and others, 
and that will really affect the experiences of our kids.
    That will be the first thing because labor costs are so 
important. You need those people in order to properly educate 
our kids; but there are other things, too. We won't be able to 
make equipment purchases that would help to improve the 
technology in our schools.
    We won't be able to make building upgrades that would help 
or even keep up with maintenance that is needed in our school 
buildings. We talked earlier about some of the problems with 
asbestos and lead in some of our schools, those sort of things 
would be put off.
    So all of those effects--and you can see them playing out--
you saw them playing out during the Great Recession. Well, this 
is even worse.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you.
    Mr. Gordon?
    Mr. Gordon. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    If we sell the 25 percent budget reduction that we could 
possibly see, we would cut like we did in 2010, where at that 
time we closed 23 schools, we laid off over a thousand 
educators at all levels of the system. We eliminated student 
transportation. We eliminated sports and extracurricular 
activities.
    We cut art, music, physical education, and library media 
out of our K-8 schools and electives out of our high schools. 
And we would be forced to do exactly those things again, simply 
keeping the lights on, if we saw the worst of the cuts that we 
could forecast.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you.
    Mr. Leachman, I just want to follow up on the issues I just 
brought up. We can look back to the Great Recession during 
which Congress provided $160 billion under the Recovery Act to 
K to 12-- this included $60 billion to K to 12 education. The 
CARES Act allocated $13.2 billion primarily for K to 12.
    Is this enough funding to meet the needs of States and 
school districts? And do you have any recommendations for this 
Committee on what the CBPP believes would be an appropriate 
response given the circumstances that we are facing?
    Mr. Leachman. No. $13.2 billion is not remotely close to 
what will be needed. As I mentioned at the top of my testimony, 
we are projecting overall state only shortfalls of $615 billion 
over the next 3 fiscal years. This is an extraordinary crisis, 
and providing way less funding than we provided during the last 
recession is not going to cut it.
    You know, we believe that the additional amount that should 
be provided to states and local governments should be 
sufficient to meeting the shortfalls that states face. So 615--
now, States have received some aid and they have some rainy day 
funds; but even after you use those things, overall States only 
face shortfalls of $440 billion, and then you add on the local 
government shortfalls and the other needs that we have in terms 
of addressing the COVID crisis, and we need to get much higher 
than $13 billion.
    Mrs. Lee. Thank you.
    Yeah, I think it is rather clear to us that the discussion 
about letting state and local governments go bankrupt is really 
bankrupting the future of our children.
    So thank you.
    And I yield. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    The gentlelady from Massachusetts, Ms. Trahan.
    The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Castro.
    I don't see anyone who hasn't been recognized, so I will 
recognize myself for 5 minutes for questions.
    Mr. Gordon, can you say just very briefly what the 
difference is between equal and equitable in terms of providing 
educational services?
    Mr. Gordon. Equitable is giving students what they need to 
create an equal experience. That is how I would say it, is that 
giving every child what they need so that they have an equal 
opportunity and that is different for each child.
    Chairman Scott. Okay. Thank you.
    And, Mr. Johnson, you indicated that you are trying to get 
devices to students that didn't have those, and I assume that 
would be consistent with an equitable distribution, not equal 
distribution; is that right?
    Mr. Johnson. Absolutely.
    Chairman Scott. And you said something nice about school 
meals. That is one of the first things that Congress recognized 
in the coronavirus response, making sure that we gave waivers 
and extra funding to make sure students could receive their 
school meals even though the schools were closed.
    Can you say a word about why those meals are important and 
how the provision of meals is absolutely consistent with the 
educational experience?
    Mr. Johnson. Oh, it is so important because you can't just 
nurture the mind, you have to nurture the body, and that is 
exactly what school nutrition does. And we all wish that we 
were not in a place where we relied so heavily on school meals 
for students to get their nutrition, but we are, and we have to 
make sure those students get what they need. And that is really 
where it has truly been amazing that the school nutrition 
services has stepped up in this crisis. Thank you all for your 
support and waivers. And we are using some of our CARES funding 
to even go beyond with school nutrition. It is so important for 
students to have that healthy meal as often as we can provide 
it from our schools.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    Ms. Pringle, can you say something about the importance of 
summer programs and what kind of summer programs are needed? 
Everyone doesn't need a summer program, but some desperately 
do. What should we be looking at in terms of our summer 
experiences to deal with the summer slide?
    Ms. Pringle. Your question--Congressman Scott, first of 
all, thank you for having this hearing. Your question earlier 
about equal versus equity comes into play here, too. We know 
forever that when our students are not with us during the 
summer, if they don't have the opportunities for enrichment, if 
they don't have the opportunities to continue to learn, they 
are going to experience a gap.
    And so, we always try to provide them with either learning 
packets or provide them with extra services during the summer 
to meet those needs.
    Of course, in this moment of COVID-19, that provides a lot 
of challenges for us because we can't do what we normally do. I 
would say that any kind of summer services, we would say the 
exact same thing, that we can't provide those unless we are 
ensuring that our students are safe. So the digital divide that 
we are experiencing right now while school is still in session 
will exist over the summer.
    We need to have the funds that you provided in the Heroes 
Act right now so that we can begin to close that digital divide 
so that we can begin to make up any of those learning losses 
throughout the summer. That is exactly what I know you 
intended, and we hope that the Senate will act quickly to 
provide those resources.
    Chairman Scott. Well, if you have a 2-month summer slide 
every summer, K through 12, that is a couple of years' worth of 
achievement gap. That is just normal. How do you--what kind 
of--how do you deal with that? What should we be looking at in 
terms of programs and funding to make sure it is not any worse?
    Ms. Pringle. Well, we have to make sure we have educators 
available to provide the teaching that our students will need. 
So we know that with so many of our educators being laid off 
already, we have to make up that gap. So that is first of all. 
We know we need additional tools, digital tools for our 
students. So we need that additional $4 billion for that 
funding for technology for our eWay Program.
    We know that we need to ensure that our students have 
access to mental health professionals and counselors so that we 
can take care of their social and emotional needs. We need to 
do that right now so we can begin to try to fill those gaps 
today.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    And, Mr. Leachman, you indicated automatic stabilizers, 
automatic triggers. How does that work? Are there education 
specific stabilizers that you are talking about or is that just 
dealing with the unemployment compensation, food stamps, 
Medicaid? Anything specific that you were talking about?
    Mr. Leachman. No. I am describing here the way in which aid 
is generally distributed. It is best if it goes out based on 
economic conditions so that it stays in place as long as it is 
needed. And, you know, this situation is uncertain, so you set 
it up so that the aid provided matches how the economy evolves.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    And one final question to Mr. Johnson.
    Mr. Johnson, are you familiar with discounts that low-
income families can get to get broadband services?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes. We have had that offered in North 
Carolina during the height of this pandemic a few months ago, 
yes.
    Chairman Scott. Are there general discounts that are 
available?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes. And there were some services offered for 
free. One big question, obviously, is going to be how that 
continues going into next school year and over the summer.
    Chairman Scott. Okay. Thank you very much.
    I want to thank all of our witnesses for your testimony. I 
think we are at the end of the questions, and I will call on 
the ranking member to see if she has closing comments.
    Dr. Foxx, do you have a closing statement?
    Ms. Foxx. I do, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much.
    I want to thank the witnesses again for their testimonies 
and particularly Superintendent Johnson for being with us here 
in person today.
    There has been a lot of talk about the need for more 
funding. It is possible that after we have evaluated the impact 
of the CARES Act, we will consider whether or not additional 
aid from Federal taxpayers will be necessary; but first we must 
evaluate how the money that has been spent, what effect it has 
had.
    But I want to make one important point. Mr. Cline talked 
earlier about the total amount of funding spent by private and 
public schools in 2018-2019 and the breakdown of that funding 
by source. Looking at just public schools, those schools spent 
$726 billion nationwide in 2017-2018 according to the National 
Center for Education Statistics. If the worst projections do, 
in fact, occur and schools experience as much as the 25 percent 
cut to their budgets, that would be a $181.5 billion loss.
    That is significant, but that would leave schools 544.5 
billion, 544.5 billion, or more than was spent in 1998-1999 
calculated in 2017-2018 dollars. That needs to sink into 
people.
    In other words, even if the worst happens, education 2 
years from now will still be more expensive to taxpayers than 
it was nearly 25 years ago, and I think any of us would be okay 
with that if education was delivering better results than it 
was 2 decades ago.
    But to pick one measure and one measure only, eighth 
graders scored 263 on the NAEP Reading Assessment in 1998. Let 
me repeat that. Eighth graders in 1998 scored 263 on the NAEP 
Reading Assessment. And in 2019, guess what? They scored 263, 
the exact same score for a lot more money. Only in the Federal 
Government do people ask for more and more money but make no 
pledges to improve delivery of services or to get better 
results.
    This is unacceptable. So, as we rush to again throw more 
and more taxpayer money that taxpayers can't afford at the 
current challenges, we must pause for at least a moment to 
consider why all the money we have spent in the last two 
decades hasn't produced better results.
    And we can go back even farther, Mr. Chairman, to all of 
the money being spent in other areas, and we will show the same 
thing: Lots of money spent; no better results.
    I want our children to get the best possible education they 
can get. People know I came from very, very poor, very poor, 
disadvantaged background, and I got an excellent education. 
That isn't happening now, and we need to look at why, and maybe 
it is not just the result of what's happening in the schools.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Scott. Thank you.
    I, too, want to thank our witnesses for the information 
that they have brought to us. It is extremely important as we 
consider legislation to help students survive the COVID-19 
pandemic. We have heard about the urgency to use equity to 
address this challenge because many students are showing up in 
school with more challenges than before.
    We need to focus on achievement gaps, the summer slide 
starting months earlier than usual, and revenue challenges. And 
so we have a lot to work on, and I want to thank our witnesses 
for helping us today.
    We have heard about the fact that we are incurring debt. 
That is true. Many experts have said that if we don't spend the 
money now, it could get even worse, we could go further in 
debt, because if we don't support the economy today, we could 
go so deep into a recession that it may take years and even 
decades to come out of.
    The Great Depression of the 1930s really never ended until 
we went into World War II. We don't want that to be the case. 
So, we have to make the investments, and when we recover the 
economy, then we have to address the fiscal situation that we 
find ourselves in.
    A lot has been made about the virtual hearing. Over the 
past few months, the Committee and Congress has demonstrated 
the ability to work in a virtual setting, using the directions 
of the CDC, the Attending Physician, and the Architect of the 
Capitol.
    And we should focus, in my judgment, not on where we are 
doing the work, but the work that we are actually doing. Over 
the past few months, we've gotten a lot of work done. We passed 
the Families First Coronavirus Response Act, the CARES Act, the 
CARES Follow-Up Act, because the money ran out, and the Heroes 
Act, all of that was done.
    This committee has held briefings on remote learning, 
workplace safety, challenges facing aging Americans and 
individuals with disabilities, child care, contact tracing, 
union representation elections, and today's hearing on 
challenges that are caused by the pandemic in terms of 
education.
    Unfortunately, some of our Republican colleagues have been 
invited to participate in all of these briefings and to offer 
expert panelists to ensure that the conversation reflects a 
range of views, but, except for one previous hearing, they have 
declined to do so. But I think this hearing today shows the 
value of everybody working together.
    And so, we have additional briefings planned, one 
additional briefing planned for Thursday on Work Force 
Investments, Relaunching America's Work Force Act which would 
provide critical investment on our work force development, as 
we restart the economy. A lot of people have lost their jobs, 
over 40 million have filed initial unemployment compensation 
claims and, regrettably, a lot of them may think they are going 
back to their old job, but a lot of them aren't, and they will 
be looking for work force investment investments.
    At this point, people should be comfortable with the 
virtual technology, and we've seen how this works. Most of the 
problems we have had in this have occurred because everybody 
tried to get into the same location, and the bandwidth in the 
committee room could only accommodate so many computers, so we 
had a little problem there. But we look forward to working with 
everyone in the briefings and hearings coming up.
    And if there is nothing else to come before the Committee, 
we want to thank our witnesses again. This has been a great 
hearing. All of the witnesses have just been tremendous.
    Is there is anything else to come before the Committee? If 
not, the committee hearing is now adjourned.
    And thank you very much.
    [Additional submission by Mr. Courtney follows:]
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    [Questions submitted for the record and their responses 
follows:]
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    [Whereupon, at 4:39 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

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