[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
REAUTHORIZING THE NATIONAL APPRENTICESHIP
ACT: STRENGTHENING AND GROWING
APPRENTICESHIPS FOR THE 21ST CENTURY
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION
AND LABOR
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, MARCH 4, 2020
__________
Serial No. 116-55
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Labor
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the: https://edlabor.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
41-102 PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR
ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia, Chairman
Susan A. Davis, California Virginia Foxx, North Carolina,
Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona Ranking Member
Joe Courtney, Connecticut David P. Roe, Tennessee
Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania
Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, Tim Walberg, Michigan
Northern Mariana Islands Brett Guthrie, Kentucky
Frederica S. Wilson, Florida Bradley Byrne, Alabama
Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Mark Takano, California Elise M. Stefanik, New York
Alma S. Adams, North Carolina Rick W. Allen, Georgia
Mark DeSaulnier, California Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania
Donald Norcross, New Jersey Jim Banks, Indiana
Pramila Jayapal, Washington Mark Walker, North Carolina
Joseph D. Morelle, New York James Comer, Kentucky
Susan Wild, Pennsylvania Ben Cline, Virginia
Josh Harder, California Russ Fulcher, Idaho
Lucy McBath, Georgia Steve Watkins, Kansas
Kim Schrier, Washington Ron Wright, Texas
Lauren Underwood, Illinois Daniel Meuser, Pennsylvania
Jahana Hayes, Connecticut Dusty Johnson, South Dakota
Donna E. Shalala, Florida Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
Andy Levin, Michigan* Gregory F. Murphy, North Carolina
Ilhan Omar, Minnesota Jefferson Van Drew, New Jersey
David J. Trone, Maryland
Haley M. Stevens, Michigan
Susie Lee, Nevada
Lori Trahan, Massachusetts
Joaquin Castro, Texas
* Vice-Chair
Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director
Brandon Renz, Minority Staff Director
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT
SUSAN A. DAVIS, California, Chairwoman
Joe Courtney, Connecticut Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania,
Mark Takano, California Ranking Member
Pramila Jayapal, Washington Brett Guthrie, Kentucky
Josh Harder, California Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Andy Levin, Michigan Elise Stefanik, New York
Ilhan Omar, Minnesota Jim Banks, Indiana
David Trone, Maryland Mark Walker, North Carolina
Susie Lee, Nevada James Comer, Kentucky
Lori Trahan, Massachusetts Ben Cline, Virginia
Joaquin Castro, Texas Russ Fulcher, Idaho
Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona Steve C. Watkins, Jr., Kansas
Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, Dan Meuser, Pennsylvania
Northern Mariana Islands Gregory F. Murphy, North Carolina
Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon
Alma S. Adams, North Carolina
Donald Norcross, New Jersey
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on March 4, 2020.................................... 1
Statement of Members:
Davis, Hon. Susan A., Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Higher
Education and Workforce Investment......................... 1
Prepared statement of.................................... 4
Smucker, Hon. Lloyd, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Higher
Education and Workforce Investment......................... 6
Prepared statement of.................................... 7
Statement of Witnesses:
Bustillo, Daniel, Executive Director, Healthcare Career
Advancement Program........................................ 35
Prepared statement of.................................... 38
Foy, Morna K., Ph.D., President, Wisconsin Technical College
System..................................................... 19
Prepared statement of.................................... 22
Noteboom, Jace, Talent Director: IBM Systems, Watson Health,
Cognitive Enterprise Support, IBM.......................... 26
Prepared statement of.................................... 29
Robinson, Tiffany P., Esquire, Secretary, Maryland Department
of Labor................................................... 10
Prepared statement of.................................... 12
Additional Submissions:
Guthrie, Hon. Brett, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Kentucky:
Link to Consumer Technology Association: Why Tech
Companies ShouldOffer Apprenticeships.................. 187
Jayapal, Hon. Pramila, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Washington:
2019 Annual Report: WSDOT Office of Equal Opportunity,
Pre-Apprentice Support Services and On-the-Job Training
Support Services Program............................... 84
Article: Amber--Breaking Down barriers To A Brighter
Future................................................. 102
WSLC: Washington Apprenticeship Growth and Expansion
Study.................................................. 105
Scott, Hon. Robert "Bobby", a Representative in Congress from
the State of Virginia:
Statement from the Center for Law and Social Policy...... 80
Questions submitted for the record by:
Sablan, Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho, a Representative in
Congress from the Northern Mariana Islands
Harder, Hon. Josh, a Representative in Congress from the
State of California
Responses submitted for the record by:
Mr. Bustillo's response to questions submitted for the record 196
Ms. Foy's response to questions submitted for the record..... 198
Ms. Noteboom's response to questions submitted for the record 204
Ms. Robinson's response to questions submitted for the record 206
REAUTHORIZING THE NATIONAL APPRENTICESHIP ACT:
STRENGTHENING AND GROWING APPRENTICESHIPS
FOR THE 21ST CENTURY
----------
Wednesday, March 4, 2020
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on Higher Education
and Workforce Investment,
Committee on Education and Labor
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., in
room 2175, Rayburn House Office Building. Hon. Susan A. Davis
(Chairwoman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Davis, Courtney, Takano, Jayapal,
Levin, Trone, Lee, Trahan, Bonamici, Adams, Norcross, Smucker,
Guthrie, Grothman, Stefanik, Walker, Comer, Cline, Fulcher,
Watkins, Meuser, and Murphy.
Also present: Representatives Scott, and Foxx.
Staff present: Ilana Brunner, General Counsel; Emma Eatman,
Deputy Press Secretary; Eli Hovland, Staff Assistant; Stephanie
Lalle, Deputy Communications Director; Jaria Martin, Clerk/
Special Assistant to the Staff Director; Katie McClelland,
Professional Staff; Kevin McDermott, Senior Labor Policy
Advisor; Richard Miller, Director of Labor Policy; Katelyn
Mooney, Associate General Counsel; Max Moore, Staff Assistant;
Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director; Banyon Vassar, Deputy
Director of Information Technology; Joshua Weisz,
Communications Director; Rachel West, Senior Economic Policy
Advisor; Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff Director; Kelsey Avino,
Minority Fellow; Courtney Butcher, Minority Director of Member
Services and Coalitions; Amy Raaf Jones, Minority Director of
Education and Human Resources Policy; Georgie Littlefair,
Minority Staff Assistant; Hannah Matesic, Minority Director of
Operations; Audra McGeorge, Minority Communications Director;
Jake Middlebrooks, Minority Professional Staff Member; Carlton
Norwood, Minority Press Secretary; Chance Russell, Minority
Legislative Assistant; Mandy Schaumburg, Minority Chief Counsel
and Deputy Director of Education Policy, and Brad Thomas,
Minority Senior Education Policy Advisor.
Chairwoman Davis. The Subcommittee on Higher Education and
Workforce Investment will come to order. I want to welcome
everyone here this morning. I note that a quorum is present and
we are able to move on.
I also want to note for the subcommittee that Ms. Susan
Wild of Pennsylvania, Ms. Lucy McBath of Georgia, and Ms.
Jahana Hayes of Connecticut are permitted to participate in
today's hearing with the understanding that their questions
will come only after Members on the subcommittee from both
sides of the aisle who are present have had an opportunity to
question the witnesses.
The Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce
Investment is meeting today in a legislative hearing to hear
testimony on Reauthorizing the National Apprenticeship Act:
Strengthening and Growing Apprenticeships for the 21st Century.
Pursuant to Committee Rule 7(c), opening Statements are
limited to the Chair and the Ranking Member, and this allows us
to hear from our witnesses sooner and provides all members with
adequate time to ask questions. I am going to recognize myself
now for the purpose of making an opening Statement.
I look around this room and I see that everyone here is
deeply committed to the mission of giving everyone in this
country a fair shot at achieving the American Dream. While we
might emphasize different means by which to reach this goal,
the fact of the matter is that our best efforts moving forward
will ultimately incorporate a lot more than one single answer
or pathway.
Many Americans believe that attending a traditional 4-year
college is critical to obtaining economic success. But this
specific path of obtaining a higher education may not be the
best fit for everyone. We are here today because we want to
give that conversation a fresh look and acknowledge that we
need to do a better job of ensuring that people, whether young
students or mid-career workers, understand the many pathways
they have to accessing the high-quality lifelong learning
opportunities that apprenticeships provide.
We have all heard the success stories, and I think you are
going to tell us some today, of people participating in
Registered Apprenticeship Programs. And I have been most
impressed by the people I have spoken to who have started as an
apprenticeship and then became the CEO of the company that they
apprenticed for. These programs combine business needs with
quality training standards and have a long track record of
success.
First enacted in 1937, the National Apprenticeship Act has
provided, and continues to provide, hundreds of thousands of
workers each year with access to paid, on-the-job learning
opportunities.
Registered Apprenticeships are unquestionably the Nation's
most successful federally funded work force development
initiative, and we are here today to ensure this success is
part of our national conversation about pathways to and
continuing higher education.
According to the Department of Labor, 94 percent of people
who complete Registered Apprenticeships are employed upon
completion, earning an average starting wage of above 70,000
annually. That probably surprises people, I think.
As this committee has discussed in previous hearings, the
success of these programs is not a mystery. Thanks to high-
quality standards, close engagement with industry, and strong
worker protections, Registered Apprenticeships provide
apprenticeships with wages and benefits that increase as
apprentices build skills and competencies, portable and
stackable credentials that are nationally recognized and valued
by employers, and advancement in a rewarding career path.
Registered Apprenticeships are also important to our
Nation's employers. By offering successful apprenticeship
opportunities, employers build a talent pipeline of dedicated
workers who are more likely to remain at their jobs for long
periods of time.
For every dollar that employers invest in apprenticeships,
they receive $1.47 in increased productivity, reduced waste,
and greater innovation.
In response to the rising demand for Registered
Apprenticeships, Federal, State, and private initiatives have
created hundreds of thousands of new apprenticeship positions
over the last several years.
Today, Registered Apprenticeships administered by the DOL
and the State Apprenticeship Agencies, or S-A-As, can be found
in over 1,200 occupations, from traditional construction and
military occupations to the nontraditional occupations such as
technology, finance, and healthcare careers.
But we know this, there is significant room for growth.
Apprenticeships currently account for just three-tenths of 1
percent of the overall work force. I will say that again,
three-tenths of 1 percent. Promoting and expanding
apprenticeship opportunities is one of the most effective
policy solutions to give hardworking people a clear path to
financial security for themselves and their families and can
serve as a jump start for people on their career journeys.
To help serve as a springboard for this conversation, I
introduced a discussion draft of the National Apprenticeship
Act of 2020, a proposed reauthorization of the National
Apprenticeship Act that will empower more workers and employers
to participate in our national apprenticeship system. And this
proposal rests on three key pillars.
First, it makes historic investments in apprenticeships by
authorizing $400 million in Federal grants, increasing by 100
million annually, to: create and expand registered
apprenticeships, youth apprenticeships, those for young people
still in school, and pre-apprenticeships, including in
nontraditional occupations; encourage opportunities for
individuals who face barriers to employment; support national
and local intermediaries who play a pivotal role in expanding
apprenticeships; and better align secondary and postsecondary
education programs with apprenticeship programs. According to
our estimates, these steps will create over 1 million
apprenticeship opportunities over the next 5 years.
And, second, the proposal authorizes a dedicated, annual
funding stream for States, which play a critical role in
expanding apprenticeship opportunities. How do we achieve that?
Through a new formula fund for State Apprenticeship Agencies
that will provide consistent and reliable funding for
apprenticeship programs each year. It also means ensuring that
States can receive dedicated annual funding while also applying
for grants to expand apprenticeship opportunities.
And, third, the proposal reflects the consistent feedback
that we have heard from employers by streamlining the process
for registering programs while maintaining Registered
Apprenticeship Programs of high-quality standards for
apprenticeship agreements. This streamlining will not only make
it easier for employers to create apprenticeship opportunities,
but also make apprenticeship programs more consistent to ensure
that all programs meet quality standards and uphold worker
protections.
Perceptions of apprenticeships vary greatly across the
country, making it difficult for programs to expand and reach
their full potential. The proposed reauthorization codifies
clear definitions and standards for Registered Apprenticeships,
youth apprenticeships, andpre-apprenticeships, so that we are
all speaking in a common language about what we mean when we
talk about the opportunities these programs provides.
And as I have said before, the Registered Apprenticeship
system has a proven potential to reach hundreds of thousands,
if not millions, of American workers. And to that end,
committee Democrats and Republicans have been working to
reauthorize the National Apprenticeship Act in a bipartisan
manner. And I certainly hope that we will continue these
efforts, we put our differences aside, of course, to reach our
common goal of helping more people succeed in today's economy
through the Registered Apprenticeship system.
Only with these clearly established programs will we ensure
that families can sit down at the kitchen table, discuss their
futures, and look to the Registered Apprenticeship system as
one of many high-quality pathways to postsecondary education
that lead to the middle class.
The proposed reauthorization before us takes critical steps
toward realizing that important goal. And we have an
opportunity here to receive feedback from key stakeholders and
make sure this proposal is as strong and effective as possible.
And that is why you are here today.
I look forward to working with all my colleagues to advance
the National Apprenticeship Act of 2020, and I now yield to the
Ranking Member Mr. Smucker for his opening Statement.
[The statement of Chairwoman Davis follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Susan A. Davis, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on
Higher Education and Workforce Investment
I look around this room and see that everyone here is deeply
committed to the mission of giving everyone in this country a fair shot
at achieving the American Dream.
Yes, we might emphasize different means by which to reach this
goal, but the fact of the matter is that our best efforts moving
forward will ultimately incorporate a lot more than one single answer
or pathway.
Many Americans believe that attending a traditional 4-year college
is critical to obtaining economic success. But this specific path of
obtaining a higher education is simply not be the best fit for
everyone. We are here today because we want to give that conversation a
fresh look and acknowledge that we need to do a better job of ensuring
that people, whether young students or mid-career workers, understand
the many pathways they have to accessing the high-quality lifelong
learning opportunities that apprenticeships provide.
We have all heard the success stories of people participating in
Registered Apprenticeship programs-and I have been most impressed by
the people I've spoken to who started as an apprentice and became the
CEO! These programs combine business needs with labor demands and have
a long track record of success.
First enacted in 1937, the National Apprenticeship Act has
provided-and continues to provide-hundreds of thousands of workers each
year with access to paid, on-the-job learning opportunities. Registered
Apprenticeships are unquestionably the nation's most successful
federally funded workforce development initiative, and we are here
today to ensure this success is part of our national conversation about
pathways to and through higher education.
According to the Department of Labor, 94 percent of people who
complete Registered Apprenticeships are employed upon completion,
earning an average starting wage of above $70,000 annually.
As this Committee has discussed in previous hearings, the success
of these programs is not a mystery. Thanks to high-quality standards,
close engagement with industry, and strong worker protections,
Registered Apprenticeships provide apprentices with:
Wages and benefits that increase as apprentices build skills
and competencies;
Portable and stackable credentials that are nationally
recognized and valued by employers; and,
Advancement in a rewarding career path.
Registered Apprenticeships are also important to our nation's
employers. By offering successful apprenticeship opportunities,
employers build a talent pipeline of dedicated workers who are more
likely to remain at their jobs for long periods of time.
For every dollar that employers invest in apprenticeships, they
receive $1.47 in increased productivity, reduced waste, and greater
innovation.
In response to the rising demand for Registered Apprenticeships,
federal, state, and private initiatives have created hundreds of
thousands of new apprenticeship positions over the last several years.
Today, Registered Apprenticeships administered by DOL and State
Apprenticeship Agencies, or S-A-As, can be found in over 1,200
occupations, from traditional construction and military occupations to
new technology, finance, and health care careers.
But there is still significant room for growth. Apprenticeships
currently account for just three-tenths of one percent of the overall
workforce. Promoting and expanding apprenticeship opportunities is one
of the most effective policy solutions to give hardworking people a
clear path to financial security for themselves and their families and
can serve as a jump start for people on their career journeys.
To help serve as a springboard for this conversation, I introduced
a discussion draft of the National Apprenticeship Act of 2020, a
proposed reauthorization of the National Apprenticeship Act, that will
empower more workers and employers to participate in our national
apprenticeship system.
This proposal rests on three key pillars.
First, it makes historic investments in apprenticeships by
authorizing $400 million in federal grants, increasing by $100
million annually, to:
Create and expand registered apprenticeships, youth
apprenticeships, and pre-apprenticeships, including in non-
traditional occupations;
Encourage opportunities for individuals who face barriers
to employment;
Support national and local intermediaries who play a
pivotal role in expanding apprenticeships; and
Better align secondary and postsecondary education
programs with apprenticeship programs.
According to our estimates, these steps will create over 1
million apprenticeship opportunities over the next 5 years.
Second, the proposal creates dedicated, annual funding for states,
which play a critical role in expanding apprenticeship
opportunities. This means establishing a new formula fund for
state apprenticeship agencies that will provide consistent and
reliable funding for apprenticeship programs each year. It also
means ensuring that states can receive dedicated annual funding
while also applying for grants to expand apprenticeship
opportunities.
Third, the proposal reflects the consistent feedback we've heard
from employers by streamlining the process for registering
programs while maintaining Registered Apprenticeship programs
high-quality standards requirements for apprenticeship
agreements.
This streamlining will not only make it easier for employers to
create apprenticeship opportunities, but also make apprenticeship
programs more consistent to ensure that all programs meet quality
standards and uphold worker protections. Perceptions of apprenticeships
vary greatly across the country, making it difficult for programs to
expand and reach their full potential. The proposed reauthorization
codifies clear definitions and standards for Registered
Apprenticeships, youth-apprenticeships, and pre-apprenticeships, so
that we are all speaking in a common language about what we mean when
we talk about the opportunities these programs provides.
As I have said before, the Registered Apprenticeship system has the
proven potential to reach hundreds of thousands-if not millions-of
American workers. To that end, Committee Democrats and Republicans are
working to reauthorize the National Apprenticeship Act in a bipartisan
manner. I hope, that as we continue these efforts, we put our
differences aside to reach our common goal of helping more people
succeed in today's economy through the Registered Apprenticeship
system.
Only with these clearly established programs will we ensure that
families can sit down at the kitchen table, discuss their futures, and
look to the Registered Apprenticeship system as one of many high-
quality pathways to postsecondary education that lead to the middle
class.
The proposed reauthorization before us takes critical steps towards
realizing that important goal. Today, we have an opportunity to receive
feedback from key stakeholders and make sure this proposal is as strong
and effective as possible.
I look forward to working with all my colleagues to advance the
National Apprenticeship Act of 2020, and now yield to the Ranking
Member, Mr. Smucker, for his opening statement.
______
Mr. Smucker. Thank you, Madam Chair.
We are here today to discuss reform of the National
Apprenticeship Act, which, of course, is an important tool in
our efforts to promote and strengthen apprenticeships and
strengthen opportunities for American workers so they are
better prepared to compete in today's economy.
And I would like to thank the chair for what I know is her
personal interest in ensuring that more apprenticeship programs
and opportunities become available. I would like to thank her
for introducing this bill that would strengthen the Act. And I
would like to thank her, as well, for working with this side of
the aisle in coordinating and scheduling this hearing today.
So, I am looking forward to discussion and also looking
forward to the continued discussion in regard to a bill. And I
do know that there is a lot that we agree on and hope that we
can work through any remaining differences and really advance a
bill that is done in a bipartisan way and that will have the
support of the administration and something that can be passed
into law. So, again, I would like to first just thank you for
your work on this very, very important topic.
The more we combat the misconception that a baccalaureate
degree is the only viable pathway to a good job, the more we
can better prepare future workers for a successful life.
For too long, there has been a stigma surrounding skills-
based education. And today's hearing is an opportunity to
highlight and recognize that the on-job learning programs are a
proven method of setting students up for success. I was for
years involved as a construction company owner and saw that
there, but this can be expanded to so many other industries.
As we all know, there is a growing interest today in
apprenticeships and other earn-and-learn opportunities across
the world, and for good reasons. Employers of all sizes are
increasingly recognizing the critical role that apprenticeships
play in the development of a qualified work force. As our
economy continues to thrive, and I am proud of the strong
economy that we have due to tax reform and deregulation
efforts, it has created this serious skills gap that we now
face. So, currently today there are more than 7 million jobs
that remain unfilled.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the number of
job openings in the U.S. exceeds the number of job seekers
nationwide. This has increased the demand for skilled workers.
Yet, a 2018 survey of U.S. employers showed that nearly half of
all job creators struggled to hire employees with the right
skills for the job. And for the sixth year running, skilled
trade jobs continue to be the hardest position to fill all over
the world.
Apprenticeship programs offer one of the strongest
solutions and pathways to filling these positions, closing this
skills gap, and strengthening the American work force.
According to the Department of Labor, 94 percent of apprentices
retain employment after completing an apprenticeship program.
And the average starting salary after completion is $70,000.
The Trump administration has long recognized the benefits
and importance of these programs enacted on behalf of our
Nation's students and workers. In July 2018, President Trump
signed an executive order on work force development in which
companies around the country signed a pledge to expand
apprenticeship opportunities and educate 3.8 million workers
over the next 5 years.
As I said, it is abundantly clear that apprenticeship
programs are proven to be effective. We must continue our work
to integrate the education community with the work force so
that classrooms and on-the-job development work hand-in-hand.
We need to adapt in order to propel all students to success in
a rapidly evolving economy.
This committee has the responsibility to work toward
solutions that will increase access to career changing
opportunities. Workforce programs like apprenticeships will aid
in closing the skills gap by building talent pipelines and
putting more Americans to work.
So, I would like to thank our witnesses, as well, for your
testimony today. I am looking forward to having the discussion
about how we can improve the recently released discussion draft
to make the Registered Apprenticeship Program system work
better for students, for families, and for employers so that we
can continue to promote apprenticeships to build our work force
and improve our country. Thank you.
[The statement of Mr. Smucker follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Lloyd Smucker, Ranking Member, Subcommittee
on Higher Education and Workforce Investment
Today we are here to discuss reform of the National Apprenticeship
Act, an important tool in our efforts to promote and strengthen
apprenticeships so American workers are better prepared to compete in
today's economy.
I'd like to thank my colleagues on the other side of the aisle for
working with us to hold today's hearing. The more we combat the
misconception that a baccalaureate degree is the only viable pathway to
a good job the more we can better prepare future workers for a
successful life. For too long, there has been a stigma surrounding
skills-based education. Today's hearing is an opportunity to highlight
and recognize that on-the-job learning programs are a proven method of
setting students up for success.
As we all know, there is a growing interest in apprenticeships and
other earn-and-learn opportunities across the world, and for good
reason. Employers of all sizes are increasingly recognizing the
critical role that apprenticeships play in the development of a
qualified workforce. However, as our economy continues to thrive under
tax reform and deregulation efforts, we face a serious skills gap.
Currently, more than seven million jobs remain unfilled.
According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, the number of job
openings in the United States exceeds the number of job seekers
nationwide. This has increased the demand for skilled workers. Yet, a
2018 survey of U.S. employers showed that nearly half of all job
creators struggle to hire employees with the right skills for the job,
and for the sixth year running, skilled trade jobs continue to be the
hardest positions to fill all over the world.
Apprenticeship programs offer one of the strongest solutions and
pathways to filling these positions, closing this skills gap, and
strengthening the American workforce, but don't just take my word for
it. According to the Department of Labor, 94 percent of apprentices
retain employment after completing an apprenticeship program and the
average starting salary after completion is $70,000.
The Trump administration has long recognized the benefits and
importance of these programs and acted on behalf of our nation's
students and workers. In July of 2018, President Trump signed an
Executive Order on workforce development, in which companies around the
country signed a pledge to expand apprenticeship opportunities and
educate 3.8 million workers over the next five years.
It is abundantly clear that apprenticeship programs are proven to
be effective. We must continue our work to integrate the education
community with the workforce, so that classrooms and on-the-job
development work hand in hand. We need to adapt in order to propel all
students to success in a rapidly evolving economy.
This committee has a responsibility to work towards solutions that
will increase access to career changing opportunities. Workforce
programs like apprenticeships will aid in closing the skills gap by
building talent pipelines and putting more Americans to work.
I'd like to thank our witnesses for their testimony today. I'm
looking forward to having a discussion about how we can improve the
recently released discussion draft to make the registered
apprenticeship system work better for students, families, and employers
so we can continue to promote apprenticeships to build our workforce
and improve our country.
______
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you, Mr. Smucker.
I want to thank our ranking member because we have had a
really good, a strong working relationship, and I appreciate
your insights into this issue. Thank you so much.
Without objection, all of the Members who wish to insert
written statements into the record may do so by submitting them
to the Committee Clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format
by 5 on Tuesday, March 17th.
And we now turn to our witnesses, and I am pleased to
recognize my colleague, Representative Trone of Maryland, to
briefly introduce his constituent who is appearing before us as
a witness today.
Mr. Trone. Thank you, Chairwoman Davis and Ranking Member
Smucker, for holding this important hearing.
I am very pleased to introduce a leader in my State of
Maryland, Secretary Tiffany Robinson. Tiffany Robinson was
appointed secretary of the Maryland Department of Labor in July
2019. In this role, she leads the Department's work in
protecting and empowering Marylanders by safeguarding workers,
protecting consumers, and cultivating a thriving work force
that meets the demands of Maryland's dynamic economy, and
oversees Maryland's State Apprenticeship Agency.
Prior to her appointment, Secretary Robinson served as
deputy chief of staff for Governor Larry Hogan. Before this,
she was assistant secretary with the Maryland Department of
Housing and Community Development and director of the Community
Development Administration and the Housing Finance Agency for
our State. Secretary Robinson is a graduate of the University
of Maryland, Baltimore County, and the University of Baltimore
School of Law.
Thank you for being here. Secretary Robinson, I look
forward to continuing to work with you to strengthen our
Registered Apprenticeship Programs in Maryland and throughout
the country. Thank you.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. And I am now pleased to
recognize my colleague, Representative Grothman of Wisconsin,
to briefly introduce his constituent who is appearing before us
as a witness today. Mr. Grothman.
Mr. Grothman. It is my honor to introduce Dr. Morna Foy as
president of the Wisconsin Technical College System. One of the
best in the country. We have 16 public 2-year institutions
serving more than 300,000 students enrolled in degree, diploma,
and transfer programs, dual credit courses with high schools,
basic adult education, and customized training in partnership
with employers. The technical colleges, five of which I have in
my district, are the primary provider of classroom instruction
for Wisconsin's Registered Instruction Program, the first in
the Nation, which was created in 1911, the same year as the
State's Technical College System.
Dr. Foy has been engaged in higher education policy and
leadership for 30 years, and believes strongly in the value of
apprenticeship programs, which is why we have her here today.
We are very pleased to have her here to highlight Wisconsin's
program and how we can improve apprenticeships at the Federal
level. Dr. Foy has a undergraduate degree from the University
of Wisconsin, a master's degree from Indiana, and doctorate at
our joint alma mater, the University of Wisconsin. Thank you
for being here, Dr. Foy.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. And I will now introduce the
remaining witnesses. Jace Noteboom is the talent director for
the IBM Systems and Cognitive Enterprise Support units of IBM.
Where, as a member of the human resources executive team, she
has global responsibility for the work force skills, talent,
offerings, and employee experience including creating and
overseeing IBM's Registered Apprenticeship Programs.
And also, Daniel Bustillo. Daniel Bustillo is the executive
director of the Healthcare Career Advancement Program, or H-
CAP, a national organization of SEIU unions and healthcare
employers who are participating in support of developing
quality healthcare career education models, including
Registered Apprenticeships for high road jobs that increase
equity in the healthcare work force.
Thank you, all of you, for being here. We appreciate that,
and in some cases, we know that you have traveled a long
distance to be here today. I just want to remind witnesses that
we have read your written Statements and they will appear in
full in the hearing record.
Pursuant to Committee Rule 7(d) and committee practice,
each of you is asked to limit your oral presentation to a 5-
minute summary of your written Statement. Before you begin,
please remember to press the button on the microphone in front
of you so that it will turn on and the members can hear you.
And as you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn
green. After 4 minutes, yellow, to signal that you have 1
minute remaining. And when the light turns red, your 5 minutes
have expired and we ask you to please wrap up.
We will let the entire panel make their presentations
before we move to member questions. When answering a question,
please remember to again turn the microphone off. And I will
first recognize Secretary Tiffany Robinson. And then we will
just go right through the line. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF TIFFANY P. ROBINSON, ESQUIRE, SECRETARY, MARYLAND
DEPARTMENT OF LABOR
Ms. Robinson. Good morning, Chair Scott, Ranking Member
Foxx, Subcommittee Chair Davis, Subcommittee Ranking Member
Smucker, and distinguished Members of the subcommittee. My name
is Tiffany Robinson. I am secretary of the Maryland Department
of Labor under Governor Larry Hogan.
I am honored to be here today and I thank you for this
opportunity to discuss and share with you the successes and
challenges of the Maryland Apprenticeship and Training Program.
Maryland has transformed the State's Registered
Apprenticeship Program into the premier work force tool that it
is today by developing best practices and strong partnerships
with education and industry leaders, job seekers, and
businesses.
During the Hogan administration, Maryland has experienced
tremendous growth with its number and diversity of
apprenticeships. We went from 7,340 Registered Apprentices to
10,500 as of today, and from 125 program sponsors to over 164
sponsors. By the end of this year, we expect to set another
record and surpass 11,000 apprentices in the State of Maryland.
In terms of increased diversity, I don't mean a slight
increase. This administration has seen a 70 percent increase in
the number of female apprentices in Maryland, as well as a 40
percent increase in the number of minority apprentices.
As you can see, our focus on growing diversity already
aligns with the new goals of the draft Reauthorization Act.
We are very proud of this growth, which is due to the
rebranding of our Registered Apprenticeship Program through a
mass coordinated outreach campaign. The inclusion of
nontraditional industries and competency-based instruction and
increased State incentives combined with U.S. DOL
apprenticeship expansion grants.
One of the most significant changes that we have made in
Maryland was to build on the growing realization that college
is just not for everyone. It sounds simple, but we are actually
changing the perception of apprenticeship by increasing our
personal outreach to current and prospective stakeholders. For
example, over the past 3 years, we have visited every single
apprenticeship program in the State. This obviously helps to
ensure compliance, but it also strengthens our relationship
with our businesses and our sponsors. Believe it or not, when
it is my team taking a tour, meeting apprentices, and providing
technical assistance, Maryland businesses actually welcome a
site visit from the government.
We have also found that the perception is changing among
the nontraditional industries who once believed the
apprenticeship model could not work for them. Innovative
competency-based programs have resulted in over 60 percent of
our new apprenticeship sponsors being in nontraditional fields
such as healthcare, information technology and cybersecurity,
transportation and logistics, advanced manufacturing, and
hospitality.
The Hogan administration has also more than doubled its
funding for the apprenticeship programs, which has helped to
lead to the State's 45 percent increase in the number of new
apprentices. Maryland's program particularly benefited from the
Governor's More Jobs for Marylanders Act, which included a
Registered Apprenticeship tax credit allowing an employer a
$1,000 tax credit per apprentice hired. This credit has
received overwhelmingly positive feedback from businesses and
is being considered currently for expansion this legislative
session.
While Maryland continues to grow and scale these programs,
the primary challenge that we have faced is the lack of
consistent and sustainable Federal funding at the program
level. So, I was thrilled to see the inclusion of formula
funding, as well as continued Federal grant options in the
draft reauthorization language. The formula funding will
enhance our State's ability to expand and integrate
apprenticeship within the work force system, while growing our
dedicated team. And it will finally allow States to fully
incorporate pre-and youth apprenticeship into our programs
through a dedicated funding stream.
And while I am happy to see the grant funding will still be
available, I might add that it would be beneficial to States if
the lifespan of those grants were increased to 4 years to
coincide with the newly required State plan and data reporting
requirements, especially considering that most apprenticeship
programs are also 4 years.
It is also my hope that the grant funding remains flexible,
similar to the Governor's set-aside WIOA funds. As you know,
newly formed programs simply don't have the same foundation as
unions and associations who have had decades to establish a
generational presence. So, a grant with more flexibility and a
longer lifespan will help sustainably grow these new programs.
We are very proud of the profound impact that the Maryland
Apprenticeship and Training program has had on our business
community, job seekers, and students in Maryland. Businesses
across the country, as you mentioned, are facing a shortage of
skilled workers. So I can't think of a better time to
reauthorize the National Apprenticeship Act.
On behalf of the Hogan administration, Maryland is thrilled
to partner with you on this important endeavor. And we look
forward to continuing our growth of the apprenticeship programs
in years to come.
Thank you, again, for your time, and I look forward to
answering any questions you may have.
[The prepared Statement of Ms. Robinson follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Dr. Foy.
STATEMENT OF MORNA K. FOY, Ph.D., PRESIDENT, WISCONSIN
TECHNICAL COLLEGE SYSTEM
Ms. Foy. Chair Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, members of
the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on
the National Apprenticeship Act and the need to strengthen and
grow apprenticeship.
I am Morna Foy, president of the Wisconsin Technical
College System. I am also a board member for Rebuilding
America's Middle Class, or RAMC, a nationwide coalition of
community colleges seeking to ensure Federal policy represents
the needs of our students.
I would like to acknowledge Representative Grothman in his
unwavering support for apprenticeship and for the Wisconsin
Technical College System, but mostly for his consistent focus
on connecting employers with educators.
Wisconsin has a strong State-registered apprenticeship
program administered by our Department of Workforce Development
with more than 11,000 registered apprentices headed for careers
as carpenters, medical assistants, IT software developers, and
many others. Our 16 technical colleges provide the majority of
the related classroom instruction for registered apprentices in
our State, including 77 distinct apprenticeship programs, 11 of
which are new since 2014. Five more are under development and
will be available this year. I have provided a handout with the
complete list.
Apprenticeship receives extensive support in Wisconsin. It
has consistently enjoyed broad bipartisan support among
policymakers. And perhaps more importantly, our employers
support it as a vital talent development strategy. More
recently, apprenticeship has proved invaluable in addressing
demographic challenges, an aging work force, and fewer high
school graduates that Wisconsin has not experienced alone.
Apprentices certainly benefit, too. Those recently
completing an apprenticeship for which a technical college
provided the related instruction, reported an annual median
income of $80,000, more than twice Wisconsin's annual median
income. I refer you to the annual report provided to members
for additional apprenticeship outcome data.
Wisconsin's technical colleges excel in aligning
apprenticeship with formal education because we intentionally
bring that perspective when designing and providing
apprenticeship instruction. First, apprenticeship has strong K-
12 connections in Wisconsin, where the Department's Youth
Apprenticeship program is open to high school students with
related instruction provided by high school partners.
Our technical colleges, through agreements with local
school districts, award youth apprentices dual credit, college
credit that also counts toward high school graduation.
From 2015 to 2019 we awarded more than 5,100 college
credits to about 1,300 youth apprentices in public and private
high schools.
At the postsecondary level, registered apprentices who
complete the work and classroom requirements are awarded a
nationally recognized apprenticeship completion certificate.
That certificate is recognized as the first 39 credits of a 60-
credit associate degree in technical studies, which can be
completed by earning 21 general education credits, many offered
online, and lead to transfer to 4-year institutions in
Wisconsin as an individual's career progresses.
In that example, the degree was earned after completion of
an apprenticeship. We have begun designing our newest
apprenticeship programs with a degree embedded as part of the
program, allowing individuals to earn a traditional degree in
tandem with, rather than after, apprenticeship completion. This
model shows particular promise for professions such as medical
assistants, where national certification exams and
accreditation bodies guide the design of program requirements.
This model is strongly supported by industry partners who want
employees with educational and career pathways beyond the
completion of the apprenticeship itself.
To encourage better alignment of apprenticeship and
postsecondary attainment, it is my hope that reauthorization
will acknowledge the role of community colleges in
apprenticeship. First, a separate statutory formula program for
States would better support the engagement of 2-year colleges
in the development and delivery of a related apprenticeship
instruction. Second, an interagency agreement established
between the Federal Departments of Labor and Education would
acknowledge that apprenticeship is more than just work force
development. Apprenticeship, as the Wisconsin model has shown,
is a highly effective, cost-neutral path to postsecondary
attainment. Finally, the State Registered Apprenticeship
Program works well for Wisconsin and should be maintained.
I really want to thank the committee for the opportunity to
testify at today's hearing. I hope my perspective adds value to
your discussions. And I would be happy to answer any questions.
[The prepared Statement of Ms. Foy follows:]
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Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Ms. Noteboom.
STATEMENT OF JACE NOTEBOOM, TALENT DIRECTOR: IBM SYSTEMS,
WATSON HEALTH, COGNITIVE ENTERPRISE SUPPORT, IBM
Ms. Noteboom. Chairwoman Davis, Ranking Member Smucker,
distinguished members, I am the talent director for IBM
Systems, responsible for work force skills and careers.
Apprenticeships provide an additional pathway to compelling
careers at IBM and other employers. Since the start of our
apprenticeship program in 2017, IBM has hired 500 apprentices
across roles ranging from mainframe systems administration to
cybersecurity to data analytics. We have hired apprentices in
15 States, including California, Virginia, and North Carolina.
Candidates for apprenticeships are drawn from a mix of
backgrounds often passed over by the United States higher
education system.
IBM has registered more than 25 new competency-based roles
in information technology with the U.S. Department of Labor and
collaborated with other employers and associations to enable
their efforts to bring more people into the work force through
this educational pathway.
As Clayton Slaughter, an IBM mainframe apprentice from
Texas says, ?When I was interviewing with my manager, she was
happy to hear I had prior experience and technical aptitude,
but what got me the job was my desire to be there. I would
encourage any company, not just tech companies, to open
apprenticeships to allow people the opportunity to shine
because I know that there are many others who like me have the
aptitude and skills, but not the access to higher education
required at many companies.?
Unfortunately, the U.S. education system is not producing
graduates with relevant technical and soft skills. Around two-
thirds of the U.S. working age population do not have a
bachelor's degree and most graduates are from a narrow band of
the U.S. population.
Often, higher education institutions simply do not offer
programs in the most demanded skills. And even when higher
education offers in-demand courses, obstacles interfere with
progress to graduation. The GAO has found that students who
transferred from 2004 to 2009 lost, on average, an estimated 43
percent of their credits, 43 percent. This obstacle to transfer
of credits is particularly severe for technical courses. For
example, there is no articulation agreement to allow transfer
of credit for any of the San Diego City College courses in
cybersecurity with San Diego State University. Their campuses
may only be 8 miles apart, but academically you can't get from
SDCC to SDSU.
IBM's New Collar approach focuses on skills first, not
degrees earned, and emphasizes work-based learning and core
skills, like learning agility, teaming, and adaptability. The
primary New Collar approaches are apprenticeships, skills
first, and P-TECH, a career-oriented school model.
IBM's apprenticeship is a competency-based program that
pairs apprenticeships with comprehensive--excuse me--
apprentices with comprehensive learning, focused hands-on
application, and demonstration of skills and mentorship.
Having a standardized apprenticeship model registered with
the Department of Labor allows us to share our apprenticeship
model more easily. For example, both the Consumer Technology
Association companies and the California Division of
Apprenticeship Standards are fast-tracking apprenticeships
based on IBM's Registered Apprenticeship roles.
Our skills-first strategy, rather than academic degree
requirements, allows for the development of a more qualified
and diverse work force. Lifelong learning, upskilling, and
reskilling are all elements for successful talent management.
P-TECH schools allow students in grades 9 through 14 to earn
both a high school diploma and an industry recognized 2-year
postsecondary degree at no cost while working with industry
partners like IBM.
Based on our experience with these three New Collar
pathways, IBM urges the subcommittee to move forward on the
following reforms to apprenticeship. First, complexity of
implementation is a barrier for many companies wanting to
leverage apprenticeship programs. Second, funding. Annually,
the United States spends more than 1.1 trillion on formal and
informal postsecondary work force education and training. And
the U.S. Department of Labor's appropriated funding level for
apprenticeship programs in 2020 was less than 200 million.
Third, IBM urges the House to remove obstacles in the Higher
Education Act that could help prepare students for
apprenticeship programs including restrictions on short-term
programs and Federal Work-Study. Finally, extend the P-TECH
model to pre-apprenticeship as a proven pathway that could
prepare students for a career or further education.
Thank you, members of the committee. I look forward to your
questions and working with the committee to modernize the
apprenticeship program.
[The prepared Statement of Ms. Noteboom follows:]
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Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Bustillo.
STATEMENT OF DANIEL BUSTILLO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HEALTHCARE
CAREER ADVANCEMENT PROGRAM
Mr. Bustillo. Chair Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, and
members of the subcommittee, I am pleased and grateful to have
the opportunity to testify before you this morning.
My name is Daniel Bustillo. I serve as executive director
of the Healthcare Career Advancement Program, commonly known as
H-CAP. H-CAP is a national labor-management cooperation
organization of SEIU union locals and employers in healthcare
that promotes innovation and quality in healthcare career
education. These industry partnerships exist across 16 States
plus Washington, DC, training tens of thousands of healthcare
workers a year.
H-CAP and industry partner organizations have longstanding
track records of developing and implementing high-quality
training programs for incumbent healthcare workers that support
their career aspirations while simultaneously meeting employer
work force needs. A win for all. The success of these programs
and the benefits to workers would not be possible without the
investments made by unions and participating employers, which
allow workers to have a direct voice in these programs and
ownership over their own futures.
This is all occurring in an industry undergoing continued
occupational growth and delivery system transformation.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, employment of
healthcare occupations is projected to increase by 14 percent
through 2028. Moreover, of the 30 fastest-growing occupations,
18 are in healthcare and related occupations. Other sector wide
factors are also accelerating the need for continued innovation
in the creation and implementation of nontraditional, high-
quality training programs, and rigorous work force planning.
This industry context mandates new ways of thinking.
Despite the fact that the healthcare industry has a long
history of work-based learning models, modern healthcare has
not traditionally been an industry in which Registered
Apprenticeships are used with any frequency. While H-CAP and
our affiliated partners administer many high-quality training
and education programs, Registered Apprenticeships are the gold
standard of work force development strategies, such as that
practiced by our colleagues in the trades.
Thus, in 2016, H-CAP created a national collaboration to
build targeted work force solutions through Registered
Apprenticeship. Since September 2016, we have also been serving
as a national industry intermediary contractor with the United
States Department of Labor to support the development of
Registered Apprenticeship in healthcare across the Nation.
Since launching our first cohort of apprentices in November
2016, H-CAP has supported the registration of over 1,500
apprentices across eight States with multiple employers
encompassing large, small, and mid-sized firms. Of these
apprentices, 82 percent are women, and a majority 60 percent
are people of color.
These Registered Apprenticeship Programs are developed to
industry specification, with direct input from employers,
unions, and workers to create competency-based programs. The
move toward competency-based Registered Apprenticeship Programs
has been particularly valuable in the healthcare industry,
where we have a large number of highly experienced incumbent
workers seeking opportunities for career progression.
As an intermediary organization and national contractor, H-
CAP leverages the direct support, participation, and expertise
of our partners who play a key role in the inception, design,
and implementation of programs to create sustainable Registered
Apprenticeship infrastructure.
We have developed positive working relationships with many
State Apprenticeship Agencies and the Office of Apprenticeship
at the national level.
Even though nearly 80 percent of healthcare workers are
women, we continue to strive to ensure accessibility for women
and workers of color, and amongst other strategies, have
created a variety of tools and resources on Equal Employment
Opportunity regulations. We have also begun work to make
Registered Apprenticeship Programs in healthcare more
accessible to people with disabilities and youth.
In short, Registered Apprenticeships continue to expand
throughout the U.S. healthcare industry without sacrificing
standards or quality and have assisted to meet critical
industry need.
We are heartened by the continued interest in codifying and
supporting the expansion of Registered Apprenticeship as a
high-quality training mechanism that provides rigorous
instruction, much needed supportive services to apprentices,
add good jobs to workers, while assisting employers with their
work force planning needs.
Investments in high-quality Registered Apprenticeships are
a critical step in addressing broader work force challenges and
provide workers and businesses with sustainable resources to
prepare for the future. Based on our experience, we offer a few
items for consideration.
First, industry partnerships and intermediary organizations
help expand the capacity of industry, educational providers and
human service organizations to meet worker need and employer
demand. These partnerships are critical to expanding Registered
Apprenticeship in our country and should be supported.
Second, supportive services, such as childcare,
transportation, and housing assistance help ensure equity and
apprentice success, which benefits workers and employers.
Third, worksite changes and new technologies in the
healthcare sector will mean workers will need more access to
earn-and-learn and on-the-job learning opportunities like
Registered Apprenticeship.
And, fourth, positive strides have already been made, but
continued efforts to support transparency and efficiency in the
registration process, along with more longitudinal data
collection and analysis, would lead to greater uptake.
We look forward to the future, and the continued expansion
of a high-quality Registered Apprenticeship system that
supports innovation through an efficient registration process
without sacrificing quality. This expansion of Registered
Apprenticeship opportunities in healthcare and other
nontraditional industries is an important objective and a true
benefit to workers, communities, employers, and industries.
Thank you for your time and I look forward to your
questions.
[The prepared Statement of Mr. Bustillo follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Thank you very much for your
comprehensive remarks and for staying within the time limits.
We appreciate that.
It is now time under Committee Rule 8(a) to question
witnesses under the 5-minute rule. I am going to pass on that
right now as I understand the Ranking Member is. And so we will
go to the first member on our side and we will go back and
forth throughout the morning.
Mr. Courtney of Connecticut, please.
Mr. Courtney. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And, again, to
you and Mr. Smucker, congratulations on really what is an
historic moment here in terms of amending and enhancing the
Fitzgerald Act, which for all intents and purposes, has not
been touched for 83 years when it passed in 1937.
I am a bit of a Fitzgerald Act geek because Fitzgerald was
William Fitzgerald, who represented eastern Connecticut, my
district, back in 1937. He was an amazing person. As we talk
about nontraditional paths to employment, he never had a
college degree. He actually was a foundry worker and an amazing
person, obviously, because his leadership skills sort of stood
out. And he, you know, rose through the ranks where he worked,
he became mayor of Norwich, Connecticut, was elected to
Congress. This bill passed when he was a freshman. It was his
first term in Congress in 1937 and signed into law by Franklin
Roosevelt.
After two terms he left to go head up the War Industrial
Board, which, obviously, was probably the biggest mobilization
of work force in our country's history. And Connecticut, like
all our States, did so much to make sure that, you know, we had
the successful outcome. We are about to celebrate the 75th
anniversary this summer. And, again, the industrial base was as
big a part of that story as almost any other aspect. And the
Fitzgerald Act actually helped with that high-velocity worker
training to make sure that the country could, obviously, meet
the demand that existed there.
So, again, thank you for your passion and experience that
all of you really demonstrated here this morning. And, again,
earlier we did have a kind of a subject matter hearing where we
had witnesses from other countries that came in and testified
from Switzerland, Germany, and Australia, which, again, this is
a global issue, actually. And, you know, one exchange we had
with the gentleman from Australia was talking about because
they have sort of a similar setup with the Federal system of
national, State, and, obviously, private sector, you know, sort
of economies, that, you know, the key element that Mr.--I got
his name here--Bradley, testified to was that it was so
important to have a national standard so that you have
portability as people move from one part of a country to
another.
And, you know, Ms. Noteboom, you mentioned the fact that,
you know, in your sector, you know, that is, obviously,
something that is important is your, you know, obviously, your
multisite company all across the country that somebody from--
who is trained in California, can go to work in New York and
maybe you could just sort of talk about that. I mean, that was
one aspect of the Fitzgerald Act that they got it right in
terms of a national standard.
Ms. Noteboom. Yes. By registering apprenticeships with the
U.S. Department of Labor, we create the best practices and
toolkits and curriculums and competency-based programs that
cannot only be used by IBM, and we are using them, but shared
with other employers, such as States, such as small and medium
businesses. In the digital economy, there are so many critical
needs for IT skills. And the transferability of credits in the
educational system, as well as the recognition of standards
across States with our government is critical.
Mr. Courtney. And, Mr. Bustillo, I mean, you sort of have
that similar sort of place in terms of dealing with multiple
employers. And, again, is that standard, again, something that
people need to rely on?
Mr. Bustillo. Yes. I think in healthcare, a little bit
different context in terms of the healthcare sector just due to
the fact that some of the--we have multiple occupations in
healthcare, right? Some of those occupations do not,
independent of Registered Apprenticeship, do not have national
standards. So, the Registered Apprenticeship process really
brings a structure and framework to that. That is certainly
helpful in doing so. And I think that we have been successful
in using that as a mechanism to create those occupational
frameworks and to assist with the portability across States as
you talked about.
Mr. Courtney. You know, Dr. Foy, I should point out,
Wisconsin actually did have the first, you know, legal
apprenticeship program in the country back to 1911. But, again,
this bill, again, is talking about sort of stabilizing the
horizon in terms of authorized funding for the programs. Again,
I just wonder if you could talk about how that gives employers
more confidence in terms of participating in these programs if
they know they are going to be around for a while.
Ms. Foy. Yes, sure. And thanks for the acknowledgement. It
is something Wisconsin's very proud of.
I think what is really important is that we understand that
as we expand the disciplines and the industries in which
apprenticeship is becoming a new delivery model, that is an
expensive proposition, developing the curriculum for it, making
sure that we have instructors available that have the skill set
to do the instruction. And it is more difficult to plan for
than a traditional academic program. We know the semester is
coming up. We know what the enrollments are going to be. We
might have a new employer decide at any time of the year that
they would like to hire some apprentices and that they have an
opportunity to do so. So, having funds available for curriculum
development, for instruction, I think, and that are sort of a
backstop to what States should and do provide, is really
important.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. The gentleman's time is up.
You know, we may be a little more liberal when our witnesses
are finishing since there aren't as many members here today.
But, please, everyone can try and stay within the 5 minutes,
but I just gave a few extra seconds, so, thank you very much.
Next, we have Mr. Guthrie from Kentucky.
Mr. Guthrie. Thank you very much. I know a lot of us
talked, as my friend from Connecticut--Switzerland, we have
kind of looked at their model. I believe two-thirds--their
whole system is planned for two-thirds of their people to go
through apprenticeships. And I remember Ms. Davis and I--the
chair--talking and my first thought was wow so there is two-
thirds of people they are not encouraging to go to college to
begin with. Then you look at, you know, according to the
census, two-thirds of Americans don't have bachelor's degrees.
I think 30 percent's the No. 1 State and that is Massachusetts.
So, it is not what are they doing to their citizens? What are
they doing for?
And so, I think, the question we have here so the American
people know is not--is really a bipartisan issue here.
Everybody is working together. The question is just what is the
Federal role and what are the details and how much prescription
verses flexibility? Because we all want to work together to
make this work and make it happen. Because you hear the same
stories and you hear it everywhere we go. There is every
employer in Kentucky that would hire somebody today even if
they are not advertising it, if they found somebody with the
right skills. And these people are not starting at $7.25 an
hour. They are substantially higher than that.
And in the late 1990's--or, yes, the late 1990's, we
changed our community college--or our community colleges were
part of the University of Kentucky. We separated them out and
created a separate system and combined community college and
technical schools together. And I think that turned out to be a
great model. But at the beginning all the tech schools wanted
to be community colleges, so we call it the Kentucky Community
Technical College System, KCTCS. Dr. Foy, I think you are
familiar with it. And I used to, in the general assembly, say
let us keep the T in KCTCS because everybody wanted to be a
community college.
But what has happened now is you can go to any community
college or any tech school or KCTCS school as we call them, the
Chamber of Commerce is there, the employers are there, the work
force people, everybody seems to be working together now. And I
think it is probably in some States I like to hear about
Wisconsin the thing, the biggest issue is getting people to
come to the programs. And you hear, well, we all say that there
are substantial abilities to increase your earning potential.
Everybody is begging for skilled workers. There is a shortage
of skilled workers, more jobs than people. But we are having
trouble getting people to come to fill the seats of training.
Now, there are some that are booked and lines to get in.
But for the most part, and I don't know, Dr. Foy, just kind of
what are the challenges have you had in your effort to work
together with industry to get trainees, to get people
education? I hate to say training because I get in trouble here
because you don't--you educate people, you train animals. I
have heard that before. So, I am going to--just forget I said
that. How do you get people into your education system and so
they can earn a better living? And we know who said that.
Ms. Foy. Well--
Mr. Guthrie. Sorry, I apologize to my former community
college president over here.
Ms. Foy. I am very fortunate actually that in Wisconsin the
technical college system has a very old and strong relationship
with our State employers. So, we have involved them in all of
our curriculum development, and we do that on a regular basis.
They also sit on all of our governing boards by statute.
Mr. Grothman. But do you give people--how do you get
educate--people to be educated?
Ms. Foy. So--
Mr. Guthrie. How do you get them in there?
Ms. Foy. Because it is a partnership that has to happen
with the employers and with educators. I think the days when it
was all about higher ed just trying to get students in our
seats so that we could collect tuition revenue is not how we
operate. We are a partner with our State's employers to create
their talent pipeline. And apprenticeship has become an
increasingly valuable and valued tool in how employers get
folks into their places of business.
So, we are the second step. They are using apprenticeship
as a recruiting tool. They are posting salaries of apprentices.
They are putting up data about contrasting how much debt does
an apprentice completer have with an associate degree in many
cases in our State versus a traditional associate degree
student who just went to college and paid their own way. And
the answer is, you know, they have zero over here and they have
something over there. They are using it as a retention tool.
Wisconsin has a very, very competitive market in big
industries, IT, agriculture, advanced manufacturing. So, we get
employers--we will get employees who want to come into a
business, but then they are also going to get recruited and
head hunted by the business down the street.
Employers are using the fact that they offer apprentices,
and they are making that investment in their employees as a
retention tool now. And it is getting to be something where
employees are actually asking about it when they go for a job
interview. What do you do for me? If I come here, how are you
going to demonstrate that you care about my career progression?
So, we are working with employers very hard to market it, to
put out materials like the one I provided to the committee. And
it is having a big impact, actually.
Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. I am out of time. But I have
unanimous consent. Submit for the record, Consumer Technology
Association?s, ?Why Tech Companies Should Offer
Apprenticeships.?
Chairwoman Davis. Without objection. Thank you. Unanimously
support.
Mr. Guthrie. Thank you for your answer.
Chairwoman Davis. And, Mr. Levin, Michigan.
Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman.
To start, I want to thank the witnesses. I appreciate your
thoughtful comments and the bipartisan tenor of today's
hearing.
In fact, bipartisanship has been a core component of the
committee's work on Registered Apprenticeships. We have had
other bipartisan hearings leading up to today's legislative
hearing. We have also had one of the best bipartisan committee
member roundtable discussions that I have attended in my time
in Congress. The room was packed. Republicans and Democrats
were engaged. And there was a clear bipartisan commitment to an
excitement about reauthorizing the National Apprenticeship Act
and increasing access to Registered Apprenticeships.
Chairwoman Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, as well as
Chairman Scott and Dr. Foxx and their staffs have upheld that
bipartisan commitment. For months now, they have engaged in
good faith negotiations. They have even agreed to delay today's
legislative hearing an extra week to give more time to reach a
bipartisan agreement.
I would hope that given the Trump administration's Stated
interest in growing apprenticeships, it will embrace the
opportunity to meaningfully scale up Registered Apprenticeships
systems through this bill. The administration's support will
continue to help negotiations and enable a bipartisan bill to
move smoothly through the House of Representatives so that we
can create opportunities for hundreds of thousands of people
across the country.
So, I wanted to start on that bipartisan note and
commitment to work with the administration. I want to talk
about how to help people, poor people, people who traditionally
not had access to apprenticeships get in the game.
There was a United States senator once from Illinois named
Barack Obama who got into the SAFETEA-LU Bill that you could
use a half a percent of your SAFETEA-LU money to build the road
construction work force of the future, women, people of color,
poor people. And for 4 years I was Michigan's chief work force
officer and I had a job similar to Ms. Robinson's. I ran all
the job training programs and that kind of thing in Michigan.
And using what the senator got passed into law, we created pre-
apprenticeship programs that were paid. The first was called
RCAR, Road Construction Apprenticeship Readiness. And, frankly,
there is a lot of people who without childcare, without
transportation, without being, you know, earning something,
they couldn't participate in the system. But they are not ready
for the apprenticeship program unless they have a pre-
apprenticeship opportunity.
So, Mr. Bustillo, let me ask your thoughts about this.
Basically, few people can afford the time or money to dedicate
weeks or months to a pre-apprenticeship program without income
to support themselves and their families. If we just have
unpaid programs, it will exclude people with low incomes and
result in a pool of apprentices that lacks racial and ethnic
diversity. So, how can reauthorizing the National
Apprenticeship Act, which is what we are trying to do here,
ensure that people of color and women and poor people can fully
participate in pre-apprenticeship and Registered Apprenticeship
Programs and that people receive adequate compensation?
Mr. Bustillo. So, thank you for the question. And I think,
harking back to my oral testimony and this is expounded a
little bit further in my written testimony as well. I think,
clearly, you know, I am heartened to see it in the proposed
legislation so there is a focus on pre-apprenticeship exactly
what you are talking about as well. One of the things that we
have seen quite clearly, and I am going to broaden it out a
little bit as well because what you are talking about is
absolutely correct. So, you heard me focus on supportive
services and from based on our experience, we have seen the
critical nature of those services whether it is for folks who
are entering into a program like a pre-apprenticeship program.
But I think that actually also holds for folks who are
incumbent workers and looking for a career progression as well.
I will give a very particular example from a State, and,
you know, many States have different geographies, right? So,
there are States where the more rural areas of those States,
there are no community or technical colleges within the
neighboring towns that folks might live in. So, I have seen
this and I have interacted with many healthcare workers around
the country who have the desire and the ability to progress
either enter into the profession or progress, but the community
college where if you are a CNA trying to become an LPN, the
community college is an hour away, right? An LPN program is a
full-time program. So, you need, in essence, to go to school
full-time, then work two double shifts on the weekend in order
to have some sort of salary or benefit to be able to support in
your family, and then have a car available to you to drive a
hour away as well.
So, I say all this to say that what you are talking about,
Representative Levin, is absolutely critical in terms of
thinking about the supportive services. You heard me mention
childcare, transportation, housing assistance. I think it is a
little bit broader than that though as well. I think without
those supportive services, and that is one of the things that
really differentiates the Registered Apprenticeship process,
the wraparound services, the earn-and-learn model and the
supportive services that are so critical to ensuring success,
which leads to better outcomes, not only for the apprentices,
but for employers as well.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. The gentleman's time
is up. Mr. Grothman of Wisconsin.
Mr. Grothman. Yes, Dr. Foy, first of all, thank you, again,
for being here.
We have, I think, top-of-the-line in the country, but could
you talk a little bit more about Wisconsin's system and why you
feel it kind of stands out among other States?
Ms. Foy. I would be happy to do that. I think there are a
few things. Wisconsin is pretty fortunate because we have had a
long history of connecting apprenticeship with academic
programs. But that is one of the things that is different in
Wisconsin is that that relationship between the Department of
Workforce Development and the Technical College System is
codified in statute. We know how to work together and we do
that very well.
We also have a technical college system that our curriculum
is developed whether it is for apprenticeship programs or for
academic programs on a competency-based basis. So, that means
we build learning modules. We put all of our curriculum into a
data base. Again, whether it is for apprenticeship programs or
academic. And what that results in is it makes it very easy for
us to crosswalk between those two kinds of delivery models,
and, therefore, combine credentials for students.
We also have a very, very strong relationship with State
employees--employers, excuse me. So, that makes sure that our
curriculum, again, whether it is for academic programs or for
apprenticeship, is current, it is modified appropriately as
industry changes.
And we have one other component that I think is actually I
know is quite unique in the country, which is that we have
paid-related instruction. So, that is really important I think
for reaching those populations that maybe haven't been as big a
participant in apprenticeship, and also incumbent workers who
want to advance their skills. Because without paid related
instruction, they have to take essentially a pay cut in order
to get the classroom instruction. And that makes a big
difference. It makes it much more attractive for employees and,
frankly, it is never something that we hear a concern raised by
employers. They are happy to pay it because they see the value.
Mr. Grothman. OK, and when we talk about cooperation with
the university system, is Wisconsin somewhat unique in the
ability to have tech school--what we call our tech school
credits go to the university and the university credits go to
the tech school?
Ms. Foy. I think that we made a lot of good progress in
that area, and particularly in apprenticeship I think we are
quite unique. I think we also have some other States around the
country that we are using as models for us in terms of what is
possible. Program-to-program articulation has not been
something that has happened that much in Wisconsin in the past,
but it is definitely our focus now. And I think for programs
like apprenticeship, it is going to make a big difference in
terms of that next step articulation from apprenticeship to
short-term certificate to associate degree and a bachelors.
Mr. Grothman. OK. Recently I ran into somebody who knew
somebody who graduated from Moraine Park. I think they went to
the Beaver Dam campus. And we were told, I think, they are
going to be working on the electrical lines.
Ms. Foy. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Grothman. A very challenging job, but they are making
six figures.
Ms. Foy. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Grothman. And one of the things that I have a problem
with is so many people, including a lot of politicians, talk
about a 4-year degree being a panacea and the height of
achievement in society. And I always bristle when I hear
politicians say that. What can we do to get politicians and
other people in society to stop, maybe in a snobby way or
whatever, always pushing the 4-year degree?
Ms. Foy. I personally think that the career pathway model
is the solution to a lot of different academic providers, as
well as industry employer recruiters. Because the pathway model
recognizes the fact that a high school diploma is not going to
get you very far in your career in the next 20, 30, 40 years.
Everybody needs to be continually learning. Industry is
changing too fast for us to stop at any credential. That goes
true for a bachelor's as well. So, our job as educators is to
make sure that you can continually access increased skill sets
and increase credentials. Employers are interested in matching
their job opportunities with those kinds of credentials. Paying
people the right amount for the right skill set and then
creating a pathway to advancement.
And when you talk about it in terms of pathways, then it is
not so much us against them, Representative. It is more about
what role and what part do we all play in that path.
Mr. Grothman. OK.
Ms. Foy. So, that is what I talk about.
Mr. Grothman. I was at an Eagle Scout ceremony on Sunday.
And I felt very good because, you know, I always ask the Eagle
Scouts who usually complete their Eagle Scout as a senior in
high school, and I asked the guy what he was going to do. And,
you know, he was obviously a sharp guy. And he was not going
into the tech school system, he was going into the trades. And
I thought it was really good that we made progress that this,
you know, obviously, top of the line guy telling me that, you
know, he was going to become an electrician. Man, you made the
right decision. I think we are making progress. Thank you.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Trone of Maryland.
Mr. Trone. Thank you, Madam Chair. Maryland, Mrs. Secretary
Robinson, is one of 27 States that run their own State
apprenticeship programming. In Maryland and nationally State
Apprenticeship Agencies played a key role in helping expand
registered programs and serve more apprentices. Based on your
experience, can you expand on your opening Statement a bit
about how Congress can codify and strengthen the role of State
Apprenticeship Agencies and how we can support awareness in
expansion of apprenticeship opportunities at State and local
levels?
Ms. Robinson. Sure, and thank you, Congressman, for that
question.
I would be happy to expand a little bit and really I would
like to go back and start with my emphasis in my oral testimony
about the appreciation for a dedicated annual funding stream.
It is difficult to approach potential sponsors with a multiyear
strategy for a new program, and we have not had access to
multiyear consistent and dedicated funding. So, this is really
a game changer in this reauthorization language that we are
happy about.
I would also say that we have worked very hard in Maryland
to do that outreach and to spread the message that Dr. Foy just
talked about. This apprenticeship is a career path, especially
when we are working with our youth in K through 12 in our youth
apprenticeship programs. Making sure that everyone clearly
understands that we are not talking about just a job. We are
talking about a career path with very good wages to support
your family, with advancement opportunities to potentially
become the CEO like you mentioned.
Changing that message in Maryland has made all the
difference. Getting youth involved and excited. We are happy to
see potentially through this act, a stronger partnership with
the Department of Education so that our State agency can work
more closely with them in the schools to connect the kids to
the employers. It is not in their nature to be out working with
employers and attracting employers, but that is what we do at
the Maryland Department of Labor in our State agency. So,
having the ability to work closer with our education partners
and be in the schools to connect them to the employers, to work
on that barrier removal, provide for transportation, have boots
on the ground because of the guaranteed streamlined funding, to
be able to, you know, provide the technical assistance they
need to connect all the dots.
Mr. Trone. Thank you. Let us talk a second about
apprenticeships in prison. Every year, over 700,000
incarcerated individuals leave State and Federal prison and
return to our local communities. For many years, these justice-
impacted individuals, barriers such as lack of a postsecondary
education, and extended periods of unemployment make reentering
the work force a challenge. Components of the Registered
Apprenticeships offer incarcerated individuals the opportunity
to overcome these obstacles and work on the job training that
provides work experience, education, it provides job related
instruction, and a nationally recognized credential that shows
employers they can do the job.
We know that access to Registered Apprenticeships and other
employment pathways leads to great jobs with benefits and
salaries that can sustain a family. We also know that the
quality of long-term outcomes in corrections-based
apprenticeships rarely matches those of Registered
Apprenticeships outside the prison walls. And we have
additional issues we need to address with inhumane wages in
prison. Secretary Robinson and others, how can the
reauthorization of the National Apprenticeship Support Act both
support ongoing efforts to reform the criminal justice system
and expand access of Registered Apprenticeships for individuals
who are incarcerated or formerly incarcerated?
Ms. Robinson. Thank you. The Maryland State Agency works
really closely with our State's Department of Public Safety and
Correctional Services to work with inmates behind the fence. I
can give you an example.
We have a quite new pre-apprenticeship program with the
Associated Builders and Contractors Metro Washington chapter in
our State to provide skilled trades training behind the fence
for inmates where they will receive workplace skills, life
skills, barrier removal, in addition to certifications, the
first level of their construction basics craft training. This
leads directly into and prepares them for a Registered
Apprenticeship Program when they reenter their community. They
will have the ability from this program to choose from HVAC and
sheet metal occupations with wages starting at $14.50 an hour
and completion of that apprenticeship paying $29.00 an hour.
So, it gives them that career path to look forward to.
We know that they have barriers and we know they need to be
focused on early before they reenter the communities. And that
has been the way we have handled it. We are appreciated for the
additional funding to allow us to continue to do that.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you.
Mr. Trone. Ma'am, can I mention one quick thing? I just
want to say thank you for that. But also, I am thrilled to be
working on a bipartisan bill with Congressman Guthrie from
Kentucky in this space. And we are glad to see our provisions
to support justice-impacted community folks who are embedded in
the discussion draft. Thank you.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you, Mr. Trone. Mr. Cline of
Virginia.
Mr. Cline. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank the
witnesses for appearing today. The future economic success of
our Nation lies in work force education and apprenticeships are
a proven pathway to gainful employment that gives workers
opportunities to earn a family sustaining wage. While much of
the national conversation these days is focused only on
opportunities as they relate to attending college, I am glad
that this subcommittee recognizes the importance and value of
apprenticeships by holding another hearing on ways to improve
these lucrative programs.
I want to also say that apprenticeships offer not only
viable solutions, but profitable ones. They can help solve the
skills gap that exists and work to fill the 7 million currently
unfilled jobs in America, 7 million. Our focus needs to be on
ensuring apprenticeships can continue to exist in an agile
system that is responsive to the everchanging work landscape.
A large part of what makes apprenticeships work well is
their ability to be customized at the State level to a specific
career and to provide earn-and-learn opportunities for workers.
Engaging employers in the creation of these apprenticeship
programs better allows the training to follow the current
market demands and to adjust as needed. Within industry, the
particulars for careers vary by location. So, encouraging
States to take the lead better allows those particulars to
consistently track with that specific market. I look forward to
finding ways to encourage States to increase their involvement
in apprenticeship programs. I enjoy hearing the great stories
about the State programs that are in Wisconsin, in Maryland,
and in my home State of Virginia. But what we are really
talking about here, boiling it down to, is stripping away a lot
of the Federal program and director--direction encouraging
reciprocity among the States when it comes to a lot of these
standards, and getting the government out of the way.
Ms. Noteboom, can you discuss what aspects of IBM's
apprenticeship model have made it so successful?
Ms. Noteboom. Absolutely. First and foremost, we are hiring
for IT jobs, and creating an inclusive environment where our
messaging is if you have got the right skills, you have got a
career at IBM, is critical for visibility to an
underrepresented population. So, key to our success is that we
created apprenticeships and registered them with the DOL and
then sought partnerships with other employers. For example, the
Consumer Technology Association that runs the Consumer
Electronics Show in Las Vegas, we partnered with them to form
the Apprenticeship Coalition to help drive industry awareness
and adoption so that we can scale.
Mr. Cline. So, a lot of private sector working together to
establish these best practices.
Ms. Noteboom. But also in coupling on Dr. Foy's good point
from earlier, we are partnering with the community colleges as
well--
Mr. Cline. Right.
Ms. Noteboom [continuing]. so that they can sponsor and use
the Registered Apprenticeships that we have created. So, we are
partnering with Wake Tech, Moberly Area Community Colleges, and
many others. That is the success is in the scale.
Mr. Cline. It is in grassroots ground up State specific
programs that you are working with here, not a Federal top
down. And, yes, it is a Federal program, but the innovation is
coming from the State level, correct?
And you mentioned best practices, does the law prevent you
from sharing best practices outside the apprenticeship process?
Ms. Noteboom. No.
Mr. Cline. OK. Well, I think that what we want to do is to
find a way to encourage the private sector to take the lead,
encourage the States to take the lead. I think the draft that
we have got here with a 15 percent non-Federal match
requirement is woefully inadequate. I think that we need to see
the private sector and the States, the non-Federal components
of this, step up to the plate.
But I also think we need to find ways to empower States to
better serve their communities both through apprenticeship
program creation and through promoting these opportunities to
prospective apprentices. And we have to remember that we are
funning annual deficits of over $1 trillion. We have to ask
whether it is responsible to consider a bill to expand
programs, even successful programs that are well-meaning like
these programs, when the majority hasn't presented a budget
plan for the next year. And when we are putting so much on the
Federal Government and leaving so little to be picked up by the
States and by the private sector.
So, I look forward to continuing this conversation. And,
again, I appreciate the witnesses for being here. I yield back.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Ms. Bonamici of Oregon.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much. And thank you to Chair
Davis and Ranking Member Smucker for this hearing today, and
thank you to our witnesses. But thank you to the leadership of
the committee for approaching this important issue on a
bipartisan basis. I have often said that I am a big believer in
higher education, but we have to have a path for everyone, and
not everyone is on the same path. And I have seen in my home
State of Oregon, where Registered Apprenticeships and pre-
apprenticeships are really helping people and I am especially
looking at women and people of color and dislocated workers,
and it is helping them access good-paying jobs. It is so
important.
A few months ago, I had this great roundtable conversation.
Our friends in labor at UA Local 290 Training Center, the
Plumbers and Steamfitters, hosted it for us. We had about 30
people around the table, apprentices and union leaders. Sade
was a--gone through the Steamfitters Local 290 program said, ?I
love what I do. People who look like me coming into these
spaces matters.? Jackie said, ?IBEW gave me a chance.? Single
moms like Sarah said, ?Without Constructing Hope's Pre-
Apprenticeship Training Program, I would never be here
providing a better life for my kids and myself.? And I noted
there were three women there. We have this wonderful
organization called Oregon Trades Women is really helping women
get into the trades and show them those opportunities. And I
know how these Registered Apprenticeships and pre-
apprenticeships and youth apprenticeships are all helping
workers, especially those with barriers. And we have had that
conversation here this morning.
As entire sectors of our economy are on the brink of
significant transformation as well, we need to rapidly scale up
our investments in Registered Apprenticeships to recognize the
future of work and respond to local work force needs. And I am
glad to see apprenticeships expanding in new fields. It is
really important. I have worked with Chair Davis and
Congressman Ferguson and Congressman Guthrie to introduce the
Promoting Apprenticeships through Regional Training Networks
for Employers Required Skills, easier to remember as PARTNERS
Act. We have been working on this bipartisan bill that invests
existing Federal dollars in industry partnerships that bring
together employers, education, training, labor, community-based
organizations to facilitate the creation of these on-the-job
programs that meet the demands of employers, but also provide
workers with important support.
I am grateful that Chair Davis incorporated many of our
provisions into this National Apprenticeship Act
reauthorization we are working on today.
And, Mr. Bustillo, thank you so much for H-CAP's continued
support for the PARTNERS Act. In your testimony, you discussed
the importance of apprentices accessing supportive services,
which is an important part of the bill. You know, such as
childcare or transportation, housing assistance. How do local
intermediaries and industry partnerships support the expansion
of Registered Apprenticeships? And how can these partnerships
make sure that the apprentices are receiving the necessary
supportive services that they need to succeed?
Mr. Bustillo. Thank you. So, I am going to answer it in the
frame of healthcare as well. So, thinking about healthcare, one
of the things that I appreciate, certainly, about the PARTNERS
Act is the fact that there is a focus on intermediaries,
obviously, industry partnerships, but small and mid-sized firms
as well.
Ms. Bonamici. Right.
Mr. Bustillo. So, we think about healthcare, normally most
folks would think, would assume that healthcare employers are
all large employers, which is not the case. We have many small
and mid-sized firms in healthcare that have tremendous work
force needs. And, you know, we have a care crisis coming in
this country, right? So, thinking about the direct care workers
and the looming care crisis that we have as well, these are
important considerations.
So, we have no 50-State healthcare employers, right? That
does not exist. So, intermediary partnerships at the local and
regional level are certainly critical to helping develop the
infrastructure and ecosystem that is needed to drive this work
forward in healthcare. So, thinking about intermediaries doing
work related to wraparound services, supportive services as
well, right? Whether it is through--directly through those
organizations, working with employers and unions on coming up
with solutions to that, working with local human service
provider organizations, as well. It is really about creating
that local infrastructure and that connection across the
continuum, which includes career and technical educations in
community colleges as well. Thinking about removing some of the
administrative burden to expand these programs and also
thinking about aggregating demand, right? Which is really
important in healthcare if you think about small and mid-sized
firms.
Ms. Bonamici. Absolutely.
Mr. Bustillo. Those are all critical considerations to
helping drive this work forward in healthcare.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And as
with our aging population, we really need to address the needs
in healthcare.
Secretary Robinson, in your testimony you mentioned that
Maryland uses Department of Labor apprenticeship expansion
grant funding to support pre-apprenticeship programs. Why is it
important for pre-apprenticeships to be registered?
Ms. Robinson. So, the pre-apprenticeship prepares those
that may have barriers that aren't quite ready for--to enter
the Registered Apprenticeship, to kind of get what they need to
get the initial skills training to be on a path where they can
step into a position where they are ready to take on the
learning and earning model. You know, we have--you mentioned
kind of regional areas, we have assigned regional
apprenticeship navigators in--that work out of some of our
American job centers. Kind of using some of our Wagner-Peyser
money to help direct people to apprenticeships when it works.
That works well for us in terms of pre-apprenticeship programs
because, obviously, our American job centers are hubs for all
kinds of agencies to focus on that barrier removal. We are
working at that level in the pre-apprenticeship timeframe to do
everything that they need to get them ready to step into the
Registered Apprenticeships role so that we can make sure that
they are successful.
Ms. Bonamici. Terrific. Thank you. My time has expired. I
yield back.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Dr. Foxx of North Carolina,
who is the ranking member of the full Labor and Education
Committee.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. And I want
to thank our witnesses for being here today, also.
Dr. Foy, I appreciated your testimony highlighting the need
for increased alignment between education and the work force
and you talked about the importance of having a focus on on-
ramps to lifelong learning. I believe those principles speak to
the need for students and families to have as many options as
possible for pathways to successful careers. And by the way, a
lot of people are using that word, ?pathways,? and I think it
is a good word to use. How has your experience with the
apprenticeship model in Wisconsin helped you send the message
that there are other alternatives beside the traditional
baccalaureate pathway that people tend to focus on?
Ms. Foy. I think several of the witnesses have testified to
this effect already, but a connection between various kinds of
apprenticeship. Youth apprenticeship, pre-apprenticeship,
Registered Apprenticeship, is a part of that pathway concept,
and it helps us reach a broader audience in terms of what is
available and what kind of compensation options are available.
I think the expansion of the areas in which apprenticeship is
now being recognized as a valuable pathway or in our minds a
delivery model for higher ed.
I think the youth apprenticeship movement in Wisconsin has
made a huge difference, Representative, because we are getting
an opportunity to expose younger people earlier on. And the
fact that we connect that exposure now to actual not just high
school credit, but college credit, makes it a lot more
appealing. You know, it legitimizes. It is not just I am
checking out what it would be like to be an electrician. I am
earning college credit while I am doing this. And that--
Ms. Foxx. Congratulations--
Ms. Foy [continuing]. makes a big difference.
Ms. Foxx [continuing]. to you on what you all are doing in
Wisconsin.
Ms. Foy. Thank you very much.
Ms. Foxx. That is great. Ms. Noteboom, as you know, I think
I have been very familiar with what IBM is doing and have
visited with your folks there, the New Collar program. What
benefits have you seen from expanding the talent pool that IBM
is drawing from in meeting the labor market needs? You have
alluded to it, but if you want to say more that is fine.
Ms. Noteboom. Sure. From my personal experience, I have
hired hundreds of candidates in places like Raleigh, Baton
Rouge, Columbia, Missouri. And we had the ability to open the
doors of IBM and showcase our professions and allow and create
pathways for folks in the community to access our professions
through apprenticeships. This allowed IBM to custom train and
educate resources on exactly the skills we need, providing them
opportunity and help lessoning the skill gap for us.
Ms. Foxx. Well, I do want to ask you to start using the
word ?education? and not say ?train.? I have to bring it up if
anybody says that word because I will tell you again, every
time you use that word, you think dog. Because what I learned
in my doctoral work is you train dogs and you educate people.
And I don't think any of you mean to say that, but that is the
implication. And so I ask you if you would do that.
Would you make another comment or two about the P-TECH
program because I am fairly familiar with it, but if you would
talk a little bit more about it, and particularly, I think you
all have had a lot of success in New York in the P-TECH
program.
Ms. Noteboom. Yes. Our P-TECH model creates pathways in
students grades 9 to 14 to earn both a high school diploma and
an industry recognized postsecondary degree at no cost. So, it
exposes them to in-demand high-tech jobs at an earlier point
than traditional. And what is amazing about the program, and it
has truly scaled. We have got 220 schools, 600 employer
partners, and we are in 24 countries. It showcases to these
individuals that they have options. They have a career pathway
in IT or they could pursue higher education, and many have.
Ms. Foxx. Well, and I think there is a way for this to be
replicated by other industries. And in my area, I am seeing
what they call healthcare academies and other things like this.
Ms. Robinson, I would like to make one comment about
something you were saying before. You were talking about these
programs as though all they do is prepare you for a career. And
I think it is important that we emphasize that all education is
focused on our getting a career. If people get a baccalaureate
degree, I think we have a sense and it is part of our problem I
believe in our country that we have developed the sense that if
you, ?get an education you don't go to work.? And if you get
something less than a baccalaureate degree you work. Well, I
would like to say that everybody I know almost that has a
baccalaureate degree that wants to work actually works. And I
think it is important we not distinguish between the two and in
some of your comments it appears as that is the way you are
doing it.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. And next we have Mr. Norcross
from New Jersey.
Mr. Norcross. Thank you, Madam Chair. There are 214 lawyers
in Congress and only one electrician, and you are looking at
him. So, I know a little bit about this. And the narrative that
somehow in order to make it in this world you have to go to a
4-year degree is something that we are hearing today over and
over. That is absolutely not true. Now, it might be right for
some. As I like to say, when my kids were born, I didn't know
if they wanted to go to college, build a college, or defend a
college. We need each of those in our society and most
importantly, we need to value them equally. That is somehow if
you go to college, you are better than, is certainly not the
way. And I will say constructionsite to Congress is not the
normal pathway, but it is something that we understand.
So, I want to go into a couple of issues concerning how we
got here as a Nation. You know, our parents, teachers,
counselors, all put into our heads as we are going through
school, college. Not service to your country. Not going into a
trade. So, I think fundamentally it starts at home that whether
you work with your hands and your head in an apprenticeship
that might take you through the electrical, the UA, the IBEW,
or you go to a 4-year school, at age 18, I ask people this on a
regular basis, when you decided what you wanted to do before
you graduated high school, are you doing what you thought you
were going to do? And almost across the board, nobody is where
they thought they would be. It is called life. That is why the
idea of going to college at 18 is perfect for some who know
what they want to do and are focused on that.
But the on ramps and the off ramps that our ranking member
talked about are so important. We did a 4-year apprenticeship
program. I went back to college later on. There are others who
went back, picked up the college degree because they wanted to
pursue a career. So at different points in your life college
works for some.
But let me walk back. The building trades have for over 100
years have been building an apprenticeship program second to
none. Have virtually no money from government put into them.
They are self-funded. They do a great job. But having standards
is so critically important because the construction industry in
itself is transient. You have the ebbs and flows and with that
the work force. So, without standards the idea of an
electrician being trained in California to a different set of
standards is ridiculous. The idea that they come back and
forth, we go within workplaces across this country is
incredibly important. So, standards there. But we also have to
be open for industry outside of the building trades to create
their own apprenticeship programs, those standards. So, what we
want to talk about with you, Mr. Bustill--did I pronounce that
correctly?
Mr. Bustillo. Bustillo.
Mr. Norcross. Bustillo. SEIU, somebody who traditionally
wasn't involved in those career paths that involved the
building trades, but they are outside that. So, for instance,
as a first-year electrician, you would never be sent to a job
in order to work there alone. You worked through side-by-side
with a journeyman as you go through, and more and more. But in
the nursing industry, you have to wait until you graduate
before you start work. They have not made that transition.
Would you walk through some of the programs SEIU and others
have worked with over the years to kind of explain the
difference between waiting until the end of your formal
education to start, and apprenticeship where you work through
it?
Mr. Bustillo. Sure, I am happy to do so. So, in my written
testimony I provided a list of the nationally registered
occupations that H-CAP has. We have 13 different occupations
registered nationally with 2 pending. Fourteen of those are in
healthcare, one of them is in childcare as well. Because we
do--we have done some apprenticeship childcare work, which is a
critical need. So, clearly there is a difference, right?
And I think you are right in saying that quality
standards--one of the things that is attractive to us is the
quality and rigor of the Registered Apprenticeship framework,
right? I think that is clearly something that has been well-
established. Healthcare is a different industry in the sense
that--and you don't see any nursing occupations other than
licensed practical nurse listed on what I told you. Healthcare
is a highly credentialed and licensed and regulated
environment. And there is a difference between prelicensure and
post-licensure. So, if you look at Registered Apprenticeship
Programs around the country that are nursing related, the
majority of them are post-licensure. Just because of some
misfit between the Registered Apprenticeship model and some of
the regulations around nursing boards and things of that sort.
So, we have certainly focused on a variety of other
occupations where there is critical industry need in
healthcare. So, most of these are hospital-based, but some of
them are community-based as well too. So, home care as an
example where individual home care workers we know--I am using
home care as a catchall, 1.2 million workers are going to be
needed over the next decade. That is a different model in the
sense that you are working in someone's home as well. You are
not at a physical worksite. You are not in a hospital. It is a
disaggregated site of employment. So, the models are a little
bit different, but the mentorship component that you are
referring to is certainly something that we take very seriously
and have developed a lot of resources around because clearly
that is one of the things that differentiates the Registered
Apprenticeship model from more traditional training models.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you.
Mr. Norcross. I yield back. Thank you.
Chairwoman Davis. Mr. Comer of Kentucky.
Mr. Comer. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I really appreciate
this hearing. This is a huge issue all over America. One of the
biggest challenges and obstacles I hear from employers and job
creators in my congressional district in Kentucky is the fact
that they have a difficult, if not impossible, time finding
enough skilled workers. Whether it is Tarter Gate Company,
which is the largest farm equipment manufacturer in the United
States, which is located in Casey County, Kentucky, or Amazon's
Fulfillment Center, which is one of the original fulfillment
centers, which is in Campbellsville, Kentucky, any time I stop
in and meet with a pretty large employer, their challenge isn't
necessarily the trade war or tax policy or the regulatory
environment, which they have concerns with all three of those,
their biggest concern is the fact that they can't find workers.
And that impedes their ability to grow and expand and invest
additional capital, which we so desperately need in this
economy.
As I travel around to high schools and middle schools, and
I talk to students or talk to parents of children in school
now, I talk to them about the great technical system that we
have built in Kentucky. Congressman Guthrie mentioned that
earlier. Kentucky has made a significant investment in area
technology centers next to high schools. Kentucky has made a
significant investment in the community colleges all across the
State. And we are starting to have a lot better communication
between industry leaders, employers, and the education system
on what type of curriculum to offer and to provide. And they
are starting to be more flexible, which is something that you
have all discussed in your testimony today.
But we still have a challenge in Kentucky getting students
enrolled in these classes. Even though we have fabulous
schools, fabulous facilities, we have good communication
between the employers and the school system on what type of
curriculum to offer and which instructors to use, we still--
there is still a stigma out there with parents and with some
school officials in we are not going to push students that
route. We are going push students to go to a university and get
a 4-year degree. I meet students every day that have recently
graduated from college with excessive amounts of student loan
debt, something we talk about in this committee each week, but
they can't find a job based on the degree they attained all
that student loan debt in.
What can we do in Congress--my question is for everyone on
the panel, if you could briefly give us an answer, what can we
do in Congress to reverse that stigma and to encourage,
successfully encourage more students to enroll in these
classes, which are so desperately needed in the work force?
Ms. Noteboom. Congressman, I will begin. We would urge the
House to remove the obstacles in the Higher Education Act as I
mentioned in my oral testimony to help better prepare students
for apprenticeship programs and remove the barriers and
restrictions on short-term programs and Federal work-study. So,
enabling more access to certificate programs, for example,
under 600 hours.
Ms. Foy. Yes, I would support that as well. I would support
looking at using student financial aid support for shorter term
programs, as long as they can demonstrate quality. Honestly,
Representative, having hearings like this considering
reauthorization of the National Apprenticeship Bill after all
these decades, keeping the focus on career paths and options
for career paths, having you talk about this has an impact.
People listen. Just like they listen to our big State employers
and national employers talking about different ways to be
successful in their companies.
Learners are really changing and education maybe is chasing
their tail in a bit, but putting the pressure on educators to
make sure that all of our options lead to each other. We have a
lot of bachelor's degree holders in Wisconsin, too, that are
not finding employment opportunities. Well, it is on us to make
sure that other educational programs, apprenticeship,
technical, certifications are available to them without having
to start over at square one. That is the biggest barrier we
have, actually, is repeating work, repeating time and expense
to get to a new credential or an advanced credential. That is
an industry credential or an academic one. So, we need to
really work on that and we need you to keep holding our feet to
the fire and talking about it as a valuable option.
Mr. Comer. Well, I can assure you I will do that. I know
many of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle will continue
to do that because that is a complaint we hear every day from
our employers. And, you know, it is just hard to imagine that
there has been so much information already spread out about
this is where you can make more money, these are available jobs
right now right after graduation. Many times employers will pay
for tuition for students to go to these programs so they can
graduate without student loan debt, which is a huge issue in
American right now. So, I am going to continue to do my job.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you.
Mr. Comer. I yield back.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. Thank you for that
question. Ms. Jayapal of Washington State.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. And this is just such
a wonderful hearing. I was thinking as I was listening to you,
Dr. Foy, that my husband is from Pittsburgh and thanks to
Social Security death benefits when his dad died, he was
actually able to get a 4-year education. But then he really
wanted to do something with his hands. And so he enrolled in a
3-year apprenticeship program that was both on-the-job and
classroom and became a bricklayer and a marble mason and
journey level, and he talks about that experience all the time.
And it is just so valuable the work that you all do. So, thank
you.
Apprenticeships, especially joint labor management
programs, are effective in helping workers move into skilled
and middle-class jobs. And in my home State of Washington,
joint labor management apprenticeship programs increased total
compensation for an individual apprentice by an incredible
average of over $810,000 over the apprenticeship's lifetime.
But there are barriers that keep many disadvantaged and under
represented workers from starting and staying in apprentice--
apprenticeships, barriers that Congress has the power to
address as we reauthorize the National Apprenticeship Act.
I heard about many of these similar barriers when I was a
Washington State senator. And so I created within the
Department of Transportation the Washington State Pre-
Apprenticeship Support Services program, which helps socially
and economically disadvantaged people, specifically women and
folks of color, to complete their apprenticeships by addressing
those barriers and linking the funding to community-based
organizations that could both recruit but also help people
through as they went into a very undefined and new environment.
It has been incredibly successful. It is partnerships between
the building trades unions, employers, and community-based
organizations.
The ironworkers, just as an example, have also learned a
lot of lessons. The importance of trade-specific training to
increase retention of those, for example, who enter the
construction industry but don't have all the terminology when
they get in there.
The PASS program has yielded impressive results and it has
now been expanded. This served 780 people in the last 2 years
with a graduation rate of 92 percent. And the program has been
particularly effective in supporting people who were formerly
incarcerated to access middle class jobs.
So, Mr. Bustillo, let me start with you and ask, what
specific kinds of supportive services should the committee
prioritize to help workers overcome those barriers to
completing pre-apprenticeship programs?
Mr. Bustillo. Thank you. So, I think the biggest issues
that we see are some of the obvious ones like childcare. I
think transportation you mentioned as well, clearly important.
Housing assistance, you know, but oftentimes folks who are in
educational programs are derailed through some unexpected
emergency as well. So, there have been some emergency
assistance funds as well. They are a little bit more
comprehensive, but I think have been highly successful. So, I
would think about those four to start with.
Ms. Jayapal. Very flexible funds, too.
Mr. Bustillo. Yes.
Ms. Jayapal. Yes. Secretary Robinson, under your
leadership, the Maryland Department of Labor has identified
some key barriers to employment and apprenticeship. Are there
particular ones that you want to make sure that you emphasize
today for us to think about?
Ms. Robinson. Thank you. I would mention back the comments
that I made earlier about our reentry programs. Oftentimes that
population has significant barriers, so the funding for pre-
apprenticeship behind the fence allows us to take care of those
so that they are ready and prepared to move into a Registered
Apprenticeship. I might add that flexibility in the State match
is allowed to count State funding that is set aside for this
type of barrier removal would be helpful.
We in Maryland have a program called EARN, Employment
Advancement Right Now, that is industry-led. We seek out
partnerships of employers. We ask them exactly what skills and
what gaps they have in their work force. We have them kind of
tell us what they are looking for and we pull together and
recruit cohorts of individuals to be educated and trained. What
we do during that timeframe it is kind of another version of a
pre-apprenticeship. We spend a lot of time removing barriers,
everything from transportation, healthcare, housing, you know,
creating the curriculum. And the benefit of that is when they
are done, they either have interviews already set up with some
of those industry partners or they are ready to move into a
Registered Apprenticeship Program.
Ms. Jayapal. Ms. Noteboom, I have 17 seconds left. But what
role can pre-apprenticeship and apprenticeship programs play in
strengthening diversity in representation in these industries?
Ms. Noteboom. IBM believes it has a responsibility as a
corporate steward to make tech very inclusive. And by improving
the pathways and opening them up to a larger underrepresented
population, it does just that. Makes the population more
accessible to technology and vice versa.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. I request unanimous
consent to enter the following documents into the record: the
Washington State Report on the PASS Program, Story of a
Formerly Homeless Washington Youth Served by a Pre-
Apprenticeship Program, and the Washington State Labor
Council's 2019 Report on Apprenticeships.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Unanimous consent, without
objection.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Meuser of Pennsylvania.
Mr. Meuser. Thank you, Chairwoman. Thank you, Chairwoman
Davis, very much and Ranking Member Smucker, and certainly
thank all of you for being here with us today.
Like many of my colleagues, a key priority of mine for my
district is economic revitalization. Workforce development
comes up every day, usually several times a day. And it does
play a very key role in maximizing our local economy and job
employment and such. There are many schools in my district,
especially one that I boast about often, Conrad Weiser in Berks
County, as well as Central Columbia High School, that have
implemented curriculums and plans that really expose high
school students. Conrad Weiser more toward STEM initiatives,
but various technical career paths. And it is fantastic. You
see young people who perhaps weren't getting the most out of
their education, now they have a bounce in their step. And they
are very enthused about what they are working on and clearly it
is very important.
We also have a number of career and technical institutes as
do many districts. But I think ours are--in Pennsylvania's 9th
congressional, are fantastic. And they have many, many students
these days thanks to various student funds and student loans
being made available for career and technical schools: the
Schuylkill Career and Technical Center, the Berks County Career
and Technical Center, the Carbon, and a few others. So, we
really have our share. But we are still not maximizing the
connectivity between the private sector, skills development,
and the schools. So, it is why I am happy to have this hearing.
And my first question will go to Ms. Noteboom. Good to see
you again. You put together impressive plan, apprenticeship
program at IBM. How do you think that can be applied well to
smaller businesses or mid-sized businesses?
Ms. Noteboom. Small and mid-sized businesses in today's
digital economy have a need for many of the same skill sets for
the Registered Apprenticeships that we are creating. So, they
can reuse those. We also have partnerships with local community
colleges so they can sponsor the DOL's Registered
Apprenticeship Programs, take them and apply them to local
employers.
Mr. Meuser. OK. I am holding a roundtable work force
development day in my district next week, or the week after.
And what would you suggest? We have businesses, we have got
some of the career and technical schools. I have got chambers
coming in. I have every party and stakeholder I think along the
way here. Hopefully, I am going to have a couple of students to
provide their input as well. So, what would you discuss? What
would you bring up at such a meeting? And what sort of ideas
could you share with me that would help us maximize what we are
all working on?
Ms. Noteboom. I would express that you State the benefits
of both the apprentice and the employer. So, showcasing to the
apprenticeship candidates that it is an opportunity, another
area of choice, another pathway, other than pursuing a 4-year
degree. And then to the employer, there are many benefits. They
are able to get the right mix of skills that they need for
their business, and also, work with local community colleges to
provide related technical instruction.
Mr. Meuser. You know, I find the private sector drives
this, right? They know what they need. They know the people
they need. They know what products they are making and what
skills are necessary. I get concerned that sometimes we are
pushing it from the education side of it. I mean, it needs to
be balanced come the end of the day. Outside of demand for the
right people, which is clear, are there any other incentives
that you can think of, or any of you for that matter in the
limited time, for how to activate the private sector more so
toward understanding and appreciate and gain knowledge on the
career and technical schools and the skills development that is
taking place? Or do you find it should be more done by the
business themselves?
Ms. Noteboom. We have partnered with many organizations
through the Consumer Technology Association. We formed an
apprenticeship coalition to help drive industry awareness and
adoption of programs like the Registered Apprenticeship
Program. There are over 40 companies in that of all sizes. They
are scaling apprenticeships and it allows us to be more
responsive and them as well to their changing skill needs.
Mr. Meuser. Thank you. Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Ms. Lee of Nevada.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ranking Member,
for having this hearing today on apprenticeship programs, and
all of you for testifying.
One issue I want to address is aligning our push for high-
quality apprenticeships with critical or emerging sectors of
our modern economy, such as our cybersecurity work force. I am
proud to have introduced the Cyber Ready Workforce Act with
Representative Stefanik. And this act will award grants to work
force entities to support the creation of Registered
Apprenticeship Programs in cybersecurity. Specifically, this
Registered Apprenticeship Program would include industry-
recognized certification in cybersecurity and encourage
stackable and portable credits.
Secretary Robinson, I was interested to read through your
testimony on particular industries and occupations that were
once considered nonapprenticeable. You reference new
innovations in Registered Apprenticeship and the culture shift
in how instruction is provided to those apprentices. Can you
walk us through the strategy that your State used in bolstering
apprenticeship programs in formerly nontraditional areas, such
as information technology and cybersecurity?
Ms. Robinson. Sure, thank you. Our Maryland Apprenticeship
Training Council listens to proposals from all industries on
any type of proposed--in these nontraditional industries
usually competency-based programs. We work through them. We
provide a lot of hands-on technical assistance. We also work
with sponsors and try to recruit sponsors that serve as
intermediaries. For example, we have a university that is
serving as a cyber intermediary and helping us to recruit and
register sponsors through our council. That has been really
helpful. They have students on campus with cyber programs. And
so the direct education piece is a no brainer.
I would say that in competency-based programs, these types
of nontraditional industries didn't used to look at
apprenticeship as a model because they didn't like the longer
timeframe. They wanted to see the specific skill attainment.
And they are willing to stick with someone a little bit longer
if it takes them a little bit longer and they would like to see
if someone can pass certain levels of those skill attainments
sooner, they can push them right into earning more wages, you
know. And it works in Maryland. We have 25 competency-based
programs right now. And that number is growing. So, thank you.
Ms. Lee. Great, thank you. And, Ms. Noteboom, obviously, I
love the model that you all use and hopefully in Nevada, my
home State, we can sort of combine the lessons from both and
move this forward because it is obviously an incredibly
important area for us not just in Nevada, but across the
country.
Another issue that this committee has explored within the
context of evaluating employment trends is the future of work.
And with the rapid changes in innovation affecting sectors of
our economy, it is clear we need to think about what the
resulting implications for the work force will be. In
particular, in my home State of Nevada, is the most vulnerable
to the effects of job automation according to a study by the
company, SmartAsset. And in particular, the Las Vegas metro
area ranks in the top 5 of 150 metropolitan areas that were
analyzed. So, this is an incredibly important issue for our
work force development.
And my question would be to both you, Secretary Robinson
and Dr. Foy. In terms of your work force development
strategies, including bolstering apprenticeship opportunities,
can you explain to what extent you have taken into account any
data or analysis concerning automation or other job-related
risk to specific occupation categories?
Ms. Foy. I will start. It is actually one of the driving
forces, I think, behind some of our new industries' interest in
apprenticeship. We started talking about it as a delivery
model, not as something reserved exclusively for the trades.
And that concern about automation is really for us a lifelong
learning problem because we don't have a lot of new
Wisconsinites being born. We don't have a lot of new
Wisconsinites graduating from high school or certainly not at
the levels that we have had in the past. So, our employers are
faced with the situation of they have literally two choices.
They can upskill their current work force and they can tap into
previously nonparticipants in their industry. So, attracting
new groups from our population. And apprenticeship is a great
way to do that because you are working while you are learning.
And there is virtually no cost to apprentices in our State. So,
it is actually how we are addressing the automation is that we
are giving our incumbent work force the skills they are going
to need to run those machines instead of doing the work the
machines are doing.
Ms. Lee. Great, thanks. I have run out of time.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, sorry.
Chairwoman Davis. Let us go to Mr. Scott of Virginia, the
Chairman of the full Education and Labor Committee.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Robinson,
Ms. Noteboom pointed out the benefits for the apprentice and
for the employer. Have you tracked students going through these
programs to see what benefit it would be to the government in
terms of increased taxes, less reliance on social services, so
that when the government makes investments in these programs,
you actually get a good return?
Ms. Robinson. So, we have an entire data team. We
appreciate the data that comes from the United States
Department of Labor, but we have an entire data team in our
State agency as well. I may have to get back to you on some of
those specific numbers, but we look at trends in savings in all
sectors of our apprenticeship programs. So, I would love to
followup on that.
I would like to say that in terms of the youth side of
things, we talked earlier about informing them this is a career
path. Oftentimes, we are talking more to the parents in that
regard because it is the parents we need to convince that this
is an alternate career path. Oftentimes, for the student it is
important for us to emphasize that they will be allowed to earn
wages and make money while they are learning and they will come
out of an apprenticeship with skills and credentials that they
can take with them forever no matter where their career takes
them.
Mr. Scott. And in terms of the return on investment from
the government, I mean, if you have less social services, more
taxes, if you are talking about youth, probably less
incarceration, it seems to be a good investment on behalf of
the government.
Ms. Robinson. A very good investment indeed.
Mr. Scott. Ms. Foy, can you talk about transferability of
credits in terms of apprentice programs if someone is in the
program, whether or not they should be able to transfer credits
to a 4-year institution?
Ms. Foy. Yes, they should be. I think the trick is making
sure that we are preparing them properly. Because it doesn't do
the student or the apprentice any good to send them to a 4-year
path that they are not properly aligned with what they have
learned and how they have--what they know. So, we are working
on that. We have had some success already in Wisconsin.
Again, this is a changing response to the new student. They
want to learn the way they want to learn in the timeframe that
they want to learn, and they don't tolerate slowness on our
part. So, we are working on it.
I think it is an important part of the process, but
truthfully, employers like IBM, like the national health
associations, they are driving the interests of 4-year
institutions in this model because, again, they want to hire
and upskill their current work force. So, you got a great
employee, came through apprenticeship program, now you want to
make him a supervisor, they wanted to put him into management,
they want him to have a bachelor's degree and they need to push
4-year institutions to make those connections.
Mr. Scott. Is there anything the Federal Government needs
to do to make sure the credits are transferrable? Or is that
something that needs to be done at the State community college
level?
Ms. Foy. I think that just recognizing the role of
education in the apprenticeship model that it is not something
for work force departments or labor departments only to care
about. That puts the emphasis--and that is something that the
Congress has the power to do by making agreements between the
Department of Education, making that responsibility in that
role formalized in the apprenticeship authorization act.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. Madam Chair, we have heard a lot
about the short-term PELL program, and I think that we have,
just to let the witnesses know, we have a I think a consensus
that we know PELL grants can be used for college courses that
lead to a degree. But at this time, if all it leads to is a
good job, you can't use the PELL grant. And I think the idea
that you would be able to use it for a quality program that
leads to a good job is something we ought to do. The trick, as
we have heard, is to maintain quality. And I think we can trust
the community colleges or the work force investment boards if
they are referring to a program, I think if we restrict the use
to those, we won't get into the problem where somebody can open
up a storefront operation and just take all the PELL grant
money and provide no real service. But I think there is a
consensus that the short-term PELL ought to be available.
Our community colleges in Virginia have established these
kinds of short-term programs, preapprentice programs, for
example, where in 8 to 16 weeks you can learn, you can get the
benefit, you can be first in line for an apprenticeship, your
income will go up 25, 50, 100 percent, as they have studied.
But if you don't have the money for the course, you can't go.
If you can use the PELL grant, you can probably cover the
tuition and a little money left over for living expenses so you
can actually afford to go. So, I think there is a consensus on
that and if we pass the Higher Education Bill, I think you can
count on that being part of it.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Takano from California.
Mr. Takano. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Chairwoman
Davis and Ranking Member Smucker, for this bipartisan hearing
on the reauthorization of the National Apprenticeship Act and
the need to increase high-quality Registered Apprenticeship
Programs.
As our witnesses have Stated, the earn-as-you-learn model
is the foundation of an apprenticeship program. Similar to
Wisconsin, my home State of California is making some great
strides in expanding this apprenticeship model to the K-12
system. Dr. Foy, in your testimony you laid out the model for
youth apprenticeships where a student receives a diploma, some
college credit, and a certificate of occupational proficiency
from the State's work force department. My question to you is
what steps did Wisconsin take to transition to an embedded
model where college credit is a key component of the
apprenticeship pathway?
Ms. Foy. We are fortunate that it is a key component of our
educational pathway, so we're already connecting the dots. We
award over 100,000 college credits to high school students in
our State every year. So, apprenticeship was sort of the next
step to that is making sure that the youth apprenticeship
curriculum was aligned with their high school curriculum and
then with technical college curriculum.
So, it was truthfully a lot of conversation between
teachers, between educators making sure that they were covering
the same thing and also connecting those conversations with our
employers. Everything we do in Wisconsin is focused on
providing a talent pipeline for local employers. So, we would
be bringing in major employers in the region or an area and
getting them to talk to high school students and getting them
to talk to high school faculty because that is really the key
for them to understand each other's work.
Mr. Takano. Well, thank you. Those conversations with high
school faculty is really critical. Often they get, I think,
isolated from the kinds of connections they need to be making
to have these programs be effective.
As we have heard, wraparound services and creating local
infrastructure are important. So, Dr. Foy, what are the best
ways for States to leverage community college infrastructure
with their Registered Apprenticeship Programs?
Ms. Foy. I think community colleges are in a good spot to
be helpful here because we emphasize a lot of wraparound
services. We tend to be smaller. We tend to have a majority of
our students are part-time so they are heavy users of
childcare, transportation, and other services that is a normal
part of our delivery process. It is expected that that will be
available. It is one of the good, I think, reasons why pre-
apprenticeship programs tend to thrive in a community college
setting because those wraparound and support services are
already in place for our general student population.
I think another important service that needs to be provided
is, again, this concept of paid related instruction and
financial aid for short-term certifications of which
apprenticeship can be one. And that is, I think, important
because a lot of students, you know, they are not looking
necessarily to get something free, especially if they are a
person that likes the idea of apprenticeship because they are
working. They are earning these educational opportunities. They
are earning these wage opportunities. So, I think that that is
one of the reasons why the community college setting makes a
good educational base for apprenticeship programs. And,
frankly, I just cannot say it enough, we have great
relationships with employers because many of our faculty in
Wisconsin's case, all of our faculty have actually worked in
the industries in which they are educating. So, it is a lot
easier for them to call up an employer than a K-12 teacher, for
example.
Mr. Takano. Very quickly, I just want to ask this last
question. We know that many of our veterans come back from
their service with skill sets that do not translate over to a
traditional credit or fit into the apprenticeship model. How do
you suggest we work to get these veterans their service counted
as prior learning?
Ms. Foy. I think the idea of building crosswalks between
military experience and military work and academic programs
that people pursue through the various service agency colleges
is very important. That is ongoing work happening across the
Nation with employer partners and with our work force
development board partners and with community colleges. So,
that is really the key. It is not that they aren't earning the
skill set or that they are not learning the kinds of same kind
of competencies that are being taught in an apprenticeship, it
is that we haven't formally recognized the relationship between
what happens when you are doing military service and what
happens when you are in civilian life. So, it is that crosswalk
building that needs to be done.
Mr. Takano. Thank you, Dr. Foy, and thank you, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Ms. Adams of North Carolina.
Ms. Adams. Thank you, Chairwoman Davis and thank you for
your work on the National Apprenticeship Act reauthorization. I
know this bill has been a priority for you for a very long
time. As it has been to all of us who know that Registered
Apprenticeships are essential pathways to a middle-class life.
Thank you to the folks here who are testifying today.
And that is why this is so important. The NAA hasn't been
reauthorized or revisited by Congress since its enactment in
1937. So, I don?t have to tell anybody here the different ways
our work force has changed since 1937. And one obvious way is
that the role of women in our economy, though unfortunately you
wouldn't be able to tell it by the numbers. So, as of 2017,
women made up only 7.3 percent of apprenticeships nationwide.
Furthermore, women tend to be enrolled in apprenticeships with
lower pay scales such as childcare where the median journey
person wage is only $9.75 an hour compared to $23.46 an hour,
the corresponding wage for the top male apprenticeship
occupation, electrician.
So, I want to open this up to the entire panel to respond.
How can our Nation attract more women into Registered
Apprenticeships as a career pathway? And how can we ensure
equitable access to Registered Apprenticeships and higher
paying occupations in industries?
Ms. Robinson. I would like to start.
Ms. Adams. Yes, ma'am, go right ahead.
Ms. Robinson. Thank you for the question. I would start by
saying that it begins with our youth. Our messaging to our
students and our collaboration with our education partners is
crucial to make sure that our young women understand that they
are fully equipped to enter into some of these industries,
especially the nontraditional industries. The way that
apprenticeship has expanded their competency-based programs
into areas like healthcare, hospitality, the list goes on and
on.
Cyber, we have a wonderful organization in Maryland called
Girls Go Cyber that are winning competitions across the State
and the Nation. We are proud to support them in that. But
allowing our youth to see that happening and providing our
teachers, our counselors, and everyone in the school system
with the information and the connectivity to the employers that
have those opportunities available, I think is the key.
Ms. Adams. Yes, you can be what you see, yes. And, Dr. Foy?
Ms. Foy. Yes, I would say that I love that answer, first of
all. And, second, that it has been an evolution of our
employers in our State. We are not necessarily the most
diverse, but that desire to change that is very strong right
now. And it has been a real pleasure for me to see our State's
employers taking the lead on not just their desire to
diversify, but the actual critical economic need for them to do
so. It is good business. And it is good business practice. And
so, they are the ones taking the lead, changing their work
environment, changing their cultural environment, so that if a
person enters into an apprenticeship program in their company,
they are not going to be the only woman there. They are not
going to be the only person of color there. And if they are the
first, they won't be the last.
Ms. Adams. OK. Ms. Noteboom.
Ms. Noteboom. IBM believes that companies bringing advanced
technologies to market have a responsibility to prepare people
for the way those technologies shape jobs. Innovation should
unlock opportunities for everyone to make our work force more
inclusive, not less. So, by recognizing learning agility and
prior skills, we are, you know, tapping into a work force that
enables another pathway for them to succeed.
Ms. Adams. OK. Mr. Bustillo.
Mr. Bustillo. So, I would add two things. I think it is
extremely important that we do the hard and critical work of
really making the progressions we talk about substantively
supported by wraparound support services. And also focus on a
range of occupations. In healthcare, as an example, we have a
severe overrepresentation of workers of color in the entry-
level lower-wage positions, severe underrepresentation in other
occupations. So, we also have to do the work of creating
Registered Apprenticeship Programs and pathways not just for
those entry-level positions, entry into the profession, but
moving up in the profession as well.
Ms. Adams. All right. Well, a Registered Apprenticeship can
impose a barrier to entry for people with low incomes due to
the cost of tools and equipment. So, do you have any
suggestions about that?
Well, actually, I am out of time. Madam Chair,--
Chairwoman Davis. Yes.
Ms. Adams [continuing]. I am going to yield back, yes.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Walker of North Carolina.
Mr. Walker. Thank you. And since Chairwoman Adams did not
ask me to yield any of my time, I am going to take the full 5
minutes there.
So, but, Ms. Noteboom, you mentioned in your testimony that
IBM has hired apprentices from my home State of North Carolina,
where we have an office of apprenticeships within the State's
department of labor, as you probably know. As you are aware,
this often forces apprenticeships, in my opinion, sponsors
specifically, to comply with two sets of standards and
regulations that are contradicting or I would say repetitive,
extending approval processes. So, this is where I want to hone
in a little bit. Can you speak to the challenges that you have
all faced due to delayed approvals for new standards?
Ms. Noteboom. I think that there are several complexities
about our implementations to barrier for companies and the
length of time that it takes to get something registered with
the U.S. Department of Labor is one of them. So, that is an
inhibitor to other employers who are looking to leverage this
program.
Mr. Walker. OK, how do you think these delays and
duplicative requirements have affected your long-term ability
to offer these training opportunities?
Ms. Noteboom. I think it slows us down.
Mr. Walker. OK, so it would be a little bit of an
impediment I would think.
I want to move on for just a minute to talk about the
Federal Work-Study reform. Recently, the DOE, the Department of
Education, announced a new program in five institutions of
higher education just in North Carolina to provide additional
flexibility to students participating in Federal Work-Study
programs. I was encouraged by this announcement because this
would enable more students to have access to relevant job
training experiences while they are simultaneously still
earning their degree. Can you explain how these earn-and-learn
opportunities are important for workers that are in your
apprenticeship programs, Ms. Noteboom?
Ms. Noteboom. So, when I was hiring many of the apprentices
across our locations, I was particularly excited when I talked
to these folks and their eyes lit up because they had no idea
that IBM would give them the education, the related technical
instruction, and the skills that they need to succeed, whether
it be in a 24-month apprenticeship time period or a 12. So, it
depends on whether it is a mainframe systems administration
position or cybersecurity. So, what was exciting is that, you
know, given how fast skills are changing, you know, a half-life
of skills are shrinking. What this does is it helps individuals
be lifelong learners. They are constantly learning to keep
their skills relevant.
Mr. Walker. Very good point there. Ms. Noteboom, again, you
highlighted earlier the pivotal role apprenticeships play in
the lives of workers that do not have access to traditional
education avenues. Last year, I was proud to introduce the
Prison to Prosperity Act, which expanded pathways to job
training programs for underrepresented populations, including
formerly incarcerated individuals, veterans, and students who
have not graduated high school. In your experience, I would
like to ask how would you describe the benefits these
apprenticeship programs have on individuals that may not have
the ability to enter the work force otherwise?
Ms. Noteboom. So, one thing that we have seen a lot of
success with is our pathways in technology program for high
school students. So, it is a 9 through 12 program that in
addition to their high school curriculum, they get access to IT
skills. And then at the end, they are emboldened to either
pursue a career in IT with us or one of the 600 employers that
are partnering with us on the opportunity, or they go on to
higher education. So, that is a great example of the pre-
apprenticeship opportunity.
Mr. Walker. I don't want to be too leading, but would you
agree that enhancing work force development opportunities for
these underrepresented populations not only--how do I want to
phrase this--has a direct impact for the worker, but also a
greater economic result or return?
Ms. Noteboom. What we are excited about at IBM is enabling
the work force with skills. So, you know, we will always at IBM
attract the best and the brightest whether it is mathematicians
who do have a 4-year degree, I mean, we are the largest private
entity that hires--that has mathematicians. We have the
largest, I should say, population of them. But with New Collar
roles and with apprenticeships in particular, we are expanding
people's opportunity to enter.
Mr. Walker. Yes, very well said. Not in my notes, but I can
see it from you and I assume from Ms. Robinson and Dr. Foy and
Mr. Bustillo, this means something to you. This is rewarding.
Is that fair to say?
Ms. Noteboom. It is absolutely fair to say. From my
personal vantage point, even though I have a degree from
Cornell, I was the beneficiary of a program like that in high
school. I was in a computer-aided drafting course at the same
time I was pursuing, you know, my regular high school
curriculum. And what was amazing is it gave me choice.
Mr. Walker. Yes.
Ms. Noteboom. I had awareness.
Mr. Walker. I can tell it is passionate and it is personal
for you. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I yield back.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. And we have somewhat
come to almost the end, but not quite because we have some
members off the committee who are going to ask questions. But
before that, I want to go to our Ranking Member Mr. Smucker,
who did not ask his questions earlier, and I will follow him.
And then our colleagues who have been waiting so long you will
go next. Mr. Smucker.
Mr. Smucker. Thank you. This has been a wonderful
discussion. I appreciate the work that each of you are doing in
your organizations.
I want to followup a little to Representative Comer's
comments in regards to the stigma around the trades and
apprenticeship programs and so on. And I have seen it
firsthand. Mr. Norcross mentioned earlier, he was an
electrician who came to Congress. I started out hanging
drywall. So, you know, similar to him came from a construction
background. And then ran a construction company, owned a
construction company. And constantly were faced with--we had
several hundred employees, faced with a shortage of people who
were interested in the construction trades. And we saw that
stigma firsthand.
One of the things that, Dr. Foy, you mention is you are
doing things in K through 12, which I think is really important
to begin to get students interested and knowing that there are
choices out there like this. And then the other thing that I
like that you are doing and I would just like you to talk about
it a little and several of you said that you have credit-based
programs and degree-based programs embedded right in
apprenticeship.
My own personal feeling is I think if you are a guidance
counselor or a parent, that makes it more attractive. There is
a certificate. There is something that is marketable. There is
something that you can take. And it is obviously beneficial for
the student. But I guess I would like you to speak to that just
a little. Do you see that? I mean, do you think that the
ability to earn an associate's degree, the ability for a
company to partner with a community college or another
organization to provide that kind of opportunity, does that
increase the attractiveness? The attractiveness of
apprenticeship programs?
Ms. Foy. One hundred percent. Students today are very well-
informed and they are very assertive about maximizing their
return on investment as well. The investment of their time and
their energy and no parent wants to think that their child's
choices are going to limit them in any way. Or that they are
going to send them down a path where there is just a sort of a
dead-end. That is one of the challenges that apprenticeship and
2-year college education, frankly, has had to work to overcome.
It is not a stopping point. It can be the beginning point. It
can be the middle point of our career. It can be something that
you are doing toward the end of your career in order to
upskill.
So, it makes a huge difference to get as much out of that
time and investment of their energy as possible and that
includes academic credential, workplace certifications,
apprenticeship credentials, as much as we can pack in
simultaneously we are going to do. And it is actually quite
critical for some of these new industries that actually require
you to have some kind of academic credential before you can sit
for your licensing exam, for example.
Mr. Smucker. Right. Well, I think it is wonderful that you
are doing that.
I do want to just confirm, Ms. Noteboom, what you had said
in regards to sometimes the approval process makes it difficult
for a company to start a new apprenticeship program. And we
should do everything that we can to prevent that. I think that
is a barrier to some students having that pathway to a career.
I have experienced that personally, as well, in Pennsylvania.
We had difficulty getting a new apprenticeship program
approved. In fact, weren't able to do that. And so, you know,
as we are considering reauthorizing this particular program, we
should be thinking and ensuring that we are finding ways to
make it easier for people to participate.
One other thing I want to mention. I have just another
minute. Several of you have talked about competency-based
programs. You are doing that in your organization. I think, Mr.
Bustillo, you talked about that. And, Ms. Robinson, you talked
about that. And I know you answered some questions, but I would
like to hear just a little bit more, maybe, Ms. Robinson, I
will ask you. A little bit more about what that means. What is
a competency-based program in your particular State?
Ms. Robinson. Sure. So, our Maryland Apprenticeship and
Training Council meets four times a year, sometimes more often,
and provides a lot of technical assistance with our sponsors,
businesses, partners, in the interim. When we are talking with
businesses and they are a little bit shy about creating an
apprenticeship program, we will walk them through the types of
programs that have worked and can work. And oftentimes, in
areas like cyber, we find that employers are looking for
specific skills to be attained along the way, progressive
skills. They need to see that you have mastered a certain set
of skills before an apprentice is moved on to the next set.
Unlike some more traditional trade time-based programs that the
industry has determined that, you know, a 2-, 3-, 4-year period
of time is significant and appropriate for that industry. We do
believe that the industry should be making these
determinations. But when a nontraditional industry comes to us
or is leaning toward being interested and we can offer them the
options of time-based, competency-based, or a hybrid, they are
more willing to come to the table with a proposal.
And to your point about the timeframe for approval, I would
say that State programs have the ability to be a little bit
more nimble. So, we can work with those partners, help them
compare different types of programs and show them standards
that have been approved, get lots of businesses on board to
say, yes, this is the type of competency progressive skills we
would want to see. And then they can get a program approved
very quickly.
Mr. Smucker. Thank you.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. And it is now my time. I want
to give myself 5 minutes and to really initially thank you and
we will sum up in just a few minutes. Ms. Noteboom, I know you
mentioned San Diego. And I will followup with that. So, we will
work on that issue.
I wanted to just go back for a second. Several of my
colleagues, and I must say they pretty much asked all the
questions that particularly I wanted to delve into. But
speaking particularly of the fact that women have tended to be
when they have been enrolled in apprenticeships, it has usually
been at a lower pay scale. And so, we need to move forward with
that and certainly at IBM, Ms. Noteboom, I mean, there has been
a dramatic change. And I wanted to just mention that we want to
continue to work on that so that we are really talking about
equitable access and certainly diversity as we move forward.
One of the issues is around alignment with the K-12 system.
And the fact that in order for students to be able to even
think about these possibilities, we need counselors, as well,
who are able to translate that experience for them and that
means that they have to be exposed as well. I wondered if you
have seen any examples of that that we might learn from as we
move forward? How can we better really help our counselors and
help them to understand how valued they can be in this process
as we change culture, as we change ideas about this?
Ms. Foy. I would like to speak to this because I think it
was a problem that Wisconsin struggled with for many years. And
we have just taken the same approach with counselors and
parents as we do with students, which is exposure, information,
education about the options and the opportunities that result
from those options. So, lots more information about what kinds
of apprenticeships are out there, how much money you can make.
What kind of companies employ apprentices? Some of our, you
know, namesake companies, Harley Davidson, Snap-On, big
institutions in our State. But also I think getting them
onsite. So, we have things called Heavy Metal Tours and STEM
Day and, you know, Girls in the Trades. We bring the students,
but we also bring their teachers and their counselors onto our
campuses and into our businesses and show them what the work
is.
Chairwoman Davis. Do you have in Wisconsin and perhaps in
Maryland, as well, directories? So, not unlike what we have for
college, university directories to give students information.
They can go online, they can search, they can do--has that
developed in Wisconsin? And how helpful has that been?
Ms. Foy. I think online is very important. A lot of young
people especially, you know, that is where they live. But there
is no substitute for seeing for yourself the reality and their
counselors and their parents are not online as much as young
people are. So, if you want to reach them, you got to use a lot
of different formats.
Chairwoman Davis. Maybe a directory helps, but it is not a
substitute for that.
Ms. Foy. Not the silver bullet.
Chairwoman Davis. Yes, I think the other issue, and Ms.
Noteboom and Mr. Bustillo as well, I mean, one of the issues
that we talk about and why this can be successful is because
you have personnel at the businesses that are there to support
and to educate really to share their experiences, which can be
something similar to the young person that they are working
with. Is there a training program?
Oh, and Ms. Foxx may say, educating program, in the
businesses themselves to help people be mentors because it is
not a natural for everybody. Some people are just very good at
it. But you can be terrific at what you do, but not be able to
teach it in the same way. How do you do that?
Ms. Noteboom. I think we have an excellent ability at IBM
to showcase our careers because we have the ability to, you
know, have so many at our company. And what is awesome is our
IBMers are often going out to their communities and showcasing
what they do for a living. Many times at the middle school
level or we have camps where we bring middle schoolers in. We
also do it at the high school level very regularly. And one of
the coolest things that we actually showcase to them, coupling
on what you had said, Dr. Foy, earlier is we have externally
recognized badges that we give throughout the apprenticeship
program that can be used for any opportunity the individual
wants after the apprenticeship.
Chairwoman Davis. Good to hear. Thank you so much. Are you
all confident that you already have been able to have a
cultural shift in this area, how far does this go? What is it
going to do? Is it going to change our economy the way a lot of
us think it has the possibility to do? What do you want to--oh,
my time is up.
Ms. Noteboom. I think this enables America to close the
skills gap. It is opening up a huge pathway to employment.
Chairwoman Davis. Great. Thank you so much. OK, and now we
are going to turn to Ms. Wild from Pennsylvania.
Ms. Wild. Thank you, Madam Chair. And because I am
interested in any answers that the rest of you might give to
the question that my colleague and the chair just asked, I
would first open it up to any of you who want to add to that.
Mr. Bustillo. Sure, thank you. So, I will start with the
mentorship component first. Very critical in healthcare when we
started doing this work we realized that that was a huge hole.
It did not exist. There is preceptorship, similar. So, we
created a variety of resources, open source resources,
training. That is a huge component of a successful program and
model.
And you are right. Just because you are a good healthcare
worker, doesn't mean you are a good mentor, right? So that is
extremely important.
I think this clearly is something that we are invested in
because we do see the potential impact that it has on our
communities around the country. I think we are at the beginning
stages of this process with nontraditional industries, but I do
see that there is a huge potential here.
Ms. Wild. Ms. Robinson or Dr. Foy, any comment on whether
we can have a cultural shift in this direction?
Ms. Robinson. I would think we absolutely can. We already
are seeing that cultural shift and we hope to see that grow,
especially in light of some of this new language. In terms of
the mentoring question, I agree with my panelists. I think that
if we open up that opportunity, some of our most successful
school systems in Maryland are the ones where we have--it only
takes one teacher to be quite honest, who is very invested in
this program and who sees the benefit who is willing to
schedule the trips and connect with the employers and let those
students see what is available to them. We would have employers
stepping up to the plate to be mentors immediately. So, I look
forward to that continued cultural shift.
Ms. Wild. Thank you. Because I want to make sure I get to
my question, I am going to end that there.
I am one of the 214 lawyers in Congress and I dare say that
Mr. Norcross' skills as an electrician are far more in demand
than mine are on a daily basis for most people in this country.
I do think that this is an incredibly important topic and it is
why even though I am not part of this subcommittee, I opted to
come and stay for the questions and answers.
My biggest concern, at least in my district, which is
Pennsylvania 7, the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania, is that we
don't seem to be doing enough to get word out to the people who
could most benefit from apprenticeships in terms of recruiting
them, in terms of making them aware of what programs are out
there. So, what I would like to do, Mr. Bustillo, if we could,
start with you. And did I mispronounce your name?
Mr. Bustillo. Bustillo is fine.
Ms. Wild. Bustillo, OK. What outreach strategies have you
found are the most successful in recruiting people to apply for
apprenticeships, particularly people in low-income or
underserved areas who would be a good fit for these programs,
perhaps, but are just unaware of them?
Mr. Bustillo. So, I think for us it is really about
leveraging the preexisting infrastructure we have in terms of
labor managing partnerships to connect directly with religious
institutions, community-based organizations, employers, as
well, because, frankly, most healthcare systems are based in
communities. So, we have worked directly to leverage that
infrastructure to get notice out.
Ms. Wild. OK. Anybody else on that? And also, if you want
to expand any of you to include how we recruit experienced
workers who might want or need to change industries because of
changing demands for a new phase in their career.
And let me just say labor is a very strong base in my area.
They wholeheartedly admit that they aren't particularly
effective at marketing their programs, and without putting the
burden on them, I just kind of want to figure out how we bring
more of this to our underserved communities.
Ms. Noteboom. I would like to expand on what Dr. Foy said
earlier. I think she said it really well. We, as employers,
need to be partnering with educators to really make very clear
the necessary skills to be first in line for jobs because, you
know, the educators are working with, you know, children and
young adults regularly and so that partnership is absolutely
critical. And we have shown that with our P-TECH model.
Ms. Wild. Dr. Foy?
Ms. Foy. It think it is just getting the word out and
talking about it. Congress talking about it, employers talking
about it, we have to talk about it. There is no single actual
piece of information that has been more powerful in my
communications than those compensation numbers and the fact
that financial aid or student debt is a huge problem right now.
I think it is the No. 1 reason why people think that anything
after high school is not going to be for them. That is a zero
when you are talking about an apprenticeship or a learn-to-earn
program. So--
Ms. Wild. We probably need to educate some of our parents,
too, about passing this on to their children.
Ms. Foy. Absolutely.
Ms. Wild. Thank you so much. I yield back.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. And I now recognize
the distinguished Ranking Member for his closing Statement.
Before that, I am sorry, I just wanted to mention that
Members may have some additional questions of you and we ask
the witnesses to please respond to those questions in writing
and the hearing record will be held open for 14 days in order
to receive those responses. There are a few other things in
boilerplate here, but I think we are going to go ahead and ask
the ranking member to please give his closing Statement. Thank
you.
Mr. Smucker. Thank you, Madam Chair. This is a great
hearing. I do want to just followup before a Statement. Talk
about the exposure. You reminded me of a program in my area
that works extremely well. They call it an externship. I don't
know if you are all familiar with that. But essentially
bringing students and guidance counselors in to one of the
large employers in my area. It might be a factory floor, it
might be something else. And they spend a few days there and
literally immerse themselves and experience the kind of work
that is available there. And that has been really an effective
program in having guidance counselors and teachers understand
the opportunities that are there. So, it has been great.
But, again, I just want to thank each of you for the work
that you are doing, for taking the time to share your
experiences and your perspectives and expertise here today. It
has been a great conversation and really, really important. We
all know the importance of the opportunity this provides for
students and families. And so--and for employers. And so,
again, I want to thank you.
It is about encouraging a mindset of lifelong learning
where individuals are continually attaining new skills that
allow them to be competitive in today's marketplace. So, I do
appreciate--we got into a little bit of discussion about the
competency-based approach, which I think is absolutely
outstanding. And I think it is important, I think, Ms.
Robinson, you mentioned it is important to develop those
competencies in partnership with the employers who are going to
be hiring the apprentice or working with the apprentice in jobs
in their locations.
And I also want to mention, again, it is important to keep
apprenticeships programs flexible enough, particularly to work
for our small and medium-sized businesses. And I really believe
if we want to encourage the growth of apprenticeship program in
the country, we cannot close doors to those who want to
participate by creating a system that is too difficult to
navigate. And I have experienced that personally myself.
So, I am really happy for the productive conversation today
about how to improve the system. I look forward to continuing
discussions so that we can get to a place where we can all
proudly support a bill that we can see signed into law.
So, thank you, again. And thank you, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Chair.
Thank you all very much for being here. It is now time to give
my closing Statement. It is going to be very brief.
And I wanted to thank you, again, because many of, I think,
the ideas that we have had and we know are sort of out there,
but we are not exactly sure how they have been applied or what
the issues with the challenges have been, you were able to
address those very well. And I greatly appreciate that and we
will look to you for guidance, for your wisdom as we move
forward. And I want to thank the ranking member for also saying
how I think we are very ready to go forward with this and move
through any of the issues that still remain. But I am very
excited about it personally and I hope we can do that. I think
we certainly were able to reaffirm today that the Registered
Apprenticeship system is one of the best strategies we have for
offering Americans across the country a clear pathway to the
middle-class.
And we recognize that we have a chance to put aside
whatever differences there are, work together to help more
Americans succeed in our economy by scaling up Registered
Apprenticeships.
Our discussion has been on the National Apprenticeship Act,
of course, of 2020 that we are looking to authorize and this
really has brought us one step closer I think to that goal. And
at the core of the provisions is the proposal that will expand
apprenticeship opportunities through historic Federal and State
investment and allow employers to more easily take part in the
Registered Apprenticeship system.
I think it is our hope and our wish that the investment in
that at all levels whether it is businesses, whether it is the
Federal Government and also the State because they play a very
important role as well, that their investment will be
worthwhile and actually pay for itself.
So, we are looking forward to that day and continuing our
discussion with our colleagues, the stakeholders shaping a
reauthorization of the National Apprentice Act that gives
everyone a chance at achieving the American Dream.
Thank you again so much for being here, for traveling and
helping to really explain this to all of us.
The meeting is adjourned. Thank you.
[Additional submission by Mr. Scott follow:]
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[Whereupon, at 12:52 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
[all]