[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
MOVING AMERICA'S INFRASTRUCTURE FORWARD
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON CONTRACTING AND INFRASTRUCTURE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
HEARING HELD
FEBRUARY 27, 2020
__________
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Small Business Committee Document Number 116-074
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
39-801 WASHINGTON : 2020
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
ABBY FINKENAUER, Iowa
JARED GOLDEN, Maine
ANDY KIM, New Jersey
JASON CROW, Colorado
SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
JUDY CHU, California
MARC VEASEY, Texas
DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio, Ranking Member
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American Samoa, Vice Ranking Member
TROY BALDERSON, Ohio
KEVIN HERN, Oklahoma
JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
ROSS SPANO, Florida
JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina
Melissa Jung, Majority Staff Director
Justin Pelletier, Majority Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel
Kevin Fitzpatrick, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Jared Golden................................................ 1
Hon. Pete Stauber................................................ 2
WITNESSES
Ms. Lynn Frazier, Director and Senior Transportation Engineer,
James W. Sewall Company, Old Town, ME, testifying on behalf of
the American Society of Civil Engineers........................ 5
Ms. Lisa Jacobson, President, Business Council for Sustainable
Energy, Washington, DC......................................... 6
Mr. Michael Saperstein, Vice President of Strategic Initiatives
and Partnerships, USTelecom--The Broadband Association,
Washington, DC................................................. 8
Mr. Todd Rothe, President, J.R. Jensen Construction Company,
Superior, WI................................................... 10
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Ms. Lynn Frazier, Director and Senior Transportation
Engineer, James W. Sewall Company, Old Town, ME, testifying
on behalf of the American Society of Civil Engineers....... 21
Ms. Lisa Jacobson, President, Business Council for
Sustainable Energy, Washington, DC......................... 27
Mr. Michael Saperstein, Vice President of Strategic
Initiatives and Partnerships, USTelecom--The Broadband
Association, Washington, DC................................ 33
Mr. Todd Rothe, President, J.R. Jensen Construction Company,
Superior, WI............................................... 39
Questions for the Record:
None.
Answers for the Record:
None.
Additional Material for the Record:
Letter from Associated Builders and Contractors.............. 44
MOVING AMERICA'S INFRASTRUCTURE FORWARD
----------
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 2020
House of Representatives,
Committee on Small Business,
Subcommittee on Contracting and Infrastructure
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 1:07 p.m., in
Room 2360, Rayburn House Office Building. Hon. Jared Golden
[chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Golden, Stauber, and Balderson.
Chairman GOLDEN. Good afternoon, and sorry for the delay.
Just coming from some testimony with the Secretary of the Navy.
So, it kept me a little bit long. But my good colleague and
friend, Congressman Pete Stauber, I thought he was going to say
that I owed him dinner or drinks or something for being late
when he told me I had a text message waiting for me just now.
But anyway, I appreciate your patience.
Good friend. Congressman Stauber actually came to Maine,
and I have been to his district as well. And I just point that
out because the first person testifying, I will introduce
today, Ms. Frazier is actually from Maine, so you can tell her
you have been to the district.
Well, thank you all for your patience for coming to testify
today.
Whether it is the roads, rails, bridges that we use to
transport our goods, the utility systems that power our
factories, or the telecommunications networks that connect
consumers to businesses, maintaining America's infrastructure
is fundamental to a robust economy and to the Nation's
competitiveness. Historically, America's infrastructure network
has fostered strong economies and allowed us to be both
competitive and efficient. However, by many measures, we are
failing to keep up with the growing demands of our modern
society.
Across the U.S., years of underinvestment in our
infrastructure has resulted in crumbling roads, bridges in need
of repair, rolling blackouts, and communities that lack access
to high-speed Internet. Failure to invest in our infrastructure
has serious economic consequences, including lower GDP growth,
lost business sales, and fewer American jobs, especially for
small businesses. Which is why we have a plan that has been
brought forward by House Democrats in the House, a 5-year, $760
billion proposed investment in infrastructure, the ``Moving
Forward Framework'', and it merits attention today.
We know that investments in infrastructure contribute both
directly and indirectly to economic growth. Infrastructure
investment reduces business costs, it increases consumer
spending, and it lays the foundation for a clean energy
economy. It is also a critical component to the success of
small businesses and the communities they serve.
This is especially true in the energy sector. In 2018,
clean energy jobs totaled more than 3.26 million and nearly
every state in the U.S. has seen an increase in the clean
energy economy. America's small businesses have been driving
this growth, with nearly 70 percent of clean energy employees
working for small businesses. A commitment to investing in
renewable energy sources, such as wind, solar, biomass, is an
investment in our Nation's small businesses and their
employees.
Similarly, a robust and well-planned investment in our
infrastructure benefits small businesses, both as end-users of
these networks and by creating business opportunities for them.
Let's take access to rural broadband, an issue I have been
working on with my friend, the Ranking Member, Mr. Stauber, and
a key component of the Moving Forward Framework. 2.5 million
Americans, including 37,000 individuals in my home district in
Maine, do not have access to a high-speed Internet connection.
In fact, only 5.5 percent of households in Maine are connected
to a fiberoptic network.
We know that economic growth is tied to access to
broadband--especially for small businesses. Small firms that
have access to high-speed Internet earn twice as much revenue
per employee, guarantee four times the revenue growth year-
over-year, and are three times more likely to create jobs.
Finally, I think we all agree that we need to enact
policies that create jobs right here at home, and we know that
small firms dominate sectors of the economy, such as
construction, manufacturing, and engineering. These small
businesses play in integral role in upgrading our roads, ports,
bridges, airports, and electrical grids. In fact, 61 percent of
the jobs directly created by infrastructure spending would be
in the construction sector, and 12 percent in the manufacturing
sector. These would be high-paying jobs on Main Street that
cannot outsourced.
While there are many details to discuss, it is my hope that
today's hearing can help identify how investments in
infrastructure, especially in surface transportation, clean
energy, and rural broadband, will benefit small businesses and
the economy overall.
And with that I thank each of the witnesses for joining us
today. I look forward to your testimony.
And I will now yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Stauber,
for an opening statement.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for holding
this timely hearing on an important issue which is our Nation's
infrastructure.
Businesses and families across America rely on increasingly
complex transportation systems, electric grids, and Internet
networks to stay connected and competitive. As a member of this
Committee and the House Transportation and Infrastructure
Committee, I am keenly aware of the significant impacts of even
the smallest disruption to these systems.
Communities across the country look to us as their elected
representatives to advocate for local projects. Earlier this
month, the United States Department of Transportation approved
a $10.5 million grant to the Duluth Seaway Port Authority to
help fund the Duluth Port Logistics Hub 2020 Revitalization and
Expansion Project, which will repair terminal components and
enhance capacity for both domestic and international shipping.
These improvements will bring significant savings and market
opportunities for local small businesses, especially those in
manufacturing and agricultural industries.
In addition to repair projects, many communities across the
country are waiting for the installment of broadband networks.
Once considered a luxury, broadband is now a critical component
of modern infrastructure. Last year, you and I, Mr. Chair, held
a hearing in Scandia, Minnesota, to hear from rural small
business owners challenged by unreliable access to broadband.
You and I realize that rural people living in Maine and rural
folks in Minnesota share the same burdens and have since worked
together to explore Federal strategies to bridge that digital
divide.
The health of our Nation's infrastructure impacts us all
regardless of geography or political affiliation. Our shared
experience has inspired bipartisan sentiments, but it is time
for us to take action and make desperately needed repairs and
reforms.
I appreciate all the witnesses being here today, especially
Mr. Rothe, who hails from the great 8th District of Minnesota.
And I look forward to hearing your remarks. You are all an
integral part in helping us ensure the government is helping,
and not harming, our small business community.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield back.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. The Ranking Member and I both
agree that this is a very bipartisan issue. Everyone knows that
this is something that needs to be done. Even people who are
not even the slightest bit political at all.
With that, I want to take just a quick minute for everyone
who is testifying to explain timing rules. Each of you will get
5 minutes to testify. The members will then get 5 minutes for
questions. There is a lighting system to assist you. I am sure
someone has gone over this with you, but sometimes we forget.
So, if you see someone waving at you, you have probably failed
to turn on the button in front of you so that your microphone
is on. The green light will be on when you begin. A yellow
light comes on when you have 1 minute remaining, and the red
light comes on when you are out of time, and we ask that you do
the best that you can to stay within this timeframe.
And now I would like to introduce witnesses.
Our first witness is Ms. Lynn Frazier. She serves as the
director and senior transportation engineer for the James
Sewall Company, a 138-year-old integrated multidiscipline
consulting firm providing services to government, energy, and
utilities and the forest products industry in Old Town, Maine.
Ms. Frazier currently sits on the board of the Maine Chamber of
Commerce and is a past-president of the American Society of
City Engineers in Maine. She holds her undergraduate degree
from the University of Maine.
Welcome, Ms. Frazier.
Our second witness is Ms. Lisa Jacobson. She is the
president of the Business Council for Sustainable Energy, a
trade association representing energy efficiency, renewable
energy, and natural gas industries. In this capacity, she
advises states and Federal policy makers on energy, tax, air
quality, and climate change issues. She is also a member of the
Department of Energy's State Energy Efficient Steering
Committee and the United States Trade Representatives Trade and
Environment Policy Advisory Committee. She holds an
undergraduate degree from the University of Vermont, and a
master's degree from the London School of Economics.
Welcome, Ms. Jacobson.
Our third witness today is Mr. Mike Saperstein.
Did I get this correct? Very good.
He is the vice president of Strategic Initiatives and
Partnerships at U.S. Telecomm, a trade association representing
telecommunications-related businesses in the U.S. In his role
he focuses on new and emerging technologies amid a shifting
regulatory landscape. In his previous role as vice president of
Policy and Advocacy, he worked to promote broadband
infrastructure projects, such as the Rural Digital Opportunity
Fund. He received his undergraduate degree from the University
of Notre Dame and his J.D. from the Catholic University of
America, Columbus school of Law. Welcome, sir. Thank you for
joining us.
And I will yield to Mr. Stauber to introduce our final
witness.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Our final witness today is Mr. Todd Rothe. He is the
president of J.R. Jensen Construction Company. Todd has led the
company since 2004 and has nearly 30 years of construction
experience. And under his leadership, J.R. Jensen has grown
from less than $5 million in annual revenue to more than $25
million, ranking it among the largest and most successful
contractors in our region. Todd has helped foster improvements
at J.R. Jensen's culture that have led to excellence in safety,
performance, and customer satisfaction. Todd earned a
bachelor's degree in Business Administration from the
University of Minnesota-Duluth, the best college hockey team in
the Nation. It is a privilege to have a constituent on the
panel today, and I appreciate you for making the journey from
Northern Minnesota.
Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much.
Ms. Frazier, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENTS OF LYNN FRAZIER, DIRECTOR AND SENIOR TRANSPORTATION
ENGINEER, JAMES W. SEWALL COMPANY; LISA JACOBSON, PRESIDENT,
BUSINESS COUNCIL FOR SUSTAINABLE ENERGY; MICHAEL SAPERSTEIN,
VICE PRESIDENT OF STRATEGIC INITIATIVES AND PARTNERSHIPS,
USTELECOM, THE BROADBAND ASSOCIATION; TODD ROTHE, PRESIDENT,
J.R. JENSEN CONSTRUCTION COMPANY
STATEMENT OF LYNN FRAZIER
Ms. FRAZIER. Chairman Golden, Ranking Member Stauber, and
members of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting me today
for this important discussion on the Nation's infrastructure
and how it impacts small business.
My name is Lynn Frazier, and I am a civil engineer based in
Enfield, Maine, the past-president of the American Society of
Civil Engineers' Maine Section, a member of the Board of the
Maine Chamber of Commerce, and director of business development
at James W. Sewall Company.
Today, I am appearing on behalf of the more than 150,000
members of the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE). I
appreciate the opportunity to share our position on the
importance of long-term, strategic investment in our Nation's
infrastructure.
Every 4 years, ASCE publishes the Infrastructure Report
Card to raise public awareness. Unfortunately, the most recent
report rated the overall condition of the Nation's
infrastructure as a D+ and found an investment gap of $2
trillion. As our infrastructure continues to age, and
investments fail to keep pace, this national gap is only
widening every year.
At the state level, Maine's latest report card found that
our infrastructure fares only slightly better than the national
average, with the state receiving a cumulative grade of C-.
Ranking Member Stauber, your state of Minnesota fares
slightly better yet with their most recent report card grading
the state's infrastructure with a C.
Several years ago, ASCE embarked on an effort to examine
how this persistent D average is impacting America's economic
future. The resulting report, our Failure to Act series, found
that failing to close our Nation's $2 trillion investment gap
creates devasting economic impacts for families, small
businesses, and the Nation's overall GDP.
Simply put, this analysis confirmed what we already know
intuitively. Water main breaks, bridge closures, road postings,
and the occasional blackout are not just inconvenient, they are
a drag on economic growth.
More specifically, our economic analysis found that by
2025, infrastructure will continue to degrade, resulting in a
loss of 2.5 million jobs, $3.9 trillion in GDP, and $7 trillion
in lost business sales. Additionally, our poor infrastructure
cost American families $3,400 a year. That is $9 a day. This is
a hidden tax that we are all paying when we do not address our
infrastructure needs.
In Maine, under investment in infrastructure like rail has
economic consequences for previously prosperous papermill towns
where economic development is desperately needed. For example,
the region's freight connection to New York is limited to 10
miles an hour in the Penobscot River Valley, forcing the few
businesses in the area to ship via truck. This makes the region
less desirable for other manufacturers, increases wear and tear
on our roadways, and increases congestion.
On a more positive note, over the past several years, Maine
has made significant, strategic investments in its ports, which
is paying dividends. Due to these investments, 6 years ago,
Eimskip, Iceland's oldest shipping company, made Portland its
U.S. headquarters, a move that has grown the amount of exports
going through the port each year and created many well-paying
jobs. And there are similar stories in every district across
the country.
So how can we raise the grades and curtail the negative
economic impacts? ASCE believes that Congress should adopt
infrastructure legislation that fixes the Highway Trust Fund,
eliminates the cap on the passenger facility charge, puts trust
back in the Harbor Maintenance Trust Fund, and addresses both
resilience and the total lifecycle cost of an asset.
Recent proposals and legislation in the House and Senate
hit on many of those priorities and we strongly hope that they
will result in bipartisan legislation this year.
Unfortunately, none of these proposals seriously addresses
the Highway Trust Fund. The gas tax has not been raised in
nearly 30 years and its purchasing power has diminished
significantly over the intervening years. Can you imagine
living off your 1993 salary? It would not get us very far.
As a result, the Highway Trust Fund will be exhausted in
2022, grinding critical road and bridge projects to a halt.
Therefore, over the next 5 years, ASCE recommends a 5 cent
a year gas tax increase indexed to inflation. This proposal is
supported by a wide coalition of groups, including the U.S.
Chamber. To ensure the Highway Trust Fund remains sustainable
as more electric vehicles come online, ASCE also recommends
creating an EV tax to account for their wear and tear on
highways.
Finally, ASCE urges Congress to establish a national pilot
program to better understand how a mileage-based user fee could
be implemented in the longer term.
In conclusion, underinvestment in our infrastructure risks
our economic future and the quality of life of all Americans.
It is the goal of everyone in this room to make sure America
remains competitive in a growing global economy. But we cannot
do that if we cannot commit to building and maintaining a
first-class infrastructure.
I would like once again to thank the Committee for inviting
me to participate in today's hearings, and I look forward to
taking your questions.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you, Ms. Frazier.
Ms. Jacobson, you are now recognized.
STATEMENT OF LISA JACOBSON
Ms. JACOBSON. Chairman Golden, Ranking Member Stauber, and
members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to
testify today. I would like to express the Business Council for
Sustainable Energy's appreciation for the leadership of the
Subcommittee and its strong bipartisan support.
Investment in American infrastructure will improve the
Nation's economic competitiveness, it will increase our
national security and resilience, and has the potential to
create tens of thousands of jobs.
Small businesses comprise more than 99 percent of U.S.
companies and employ over 47 percent of the American private-
sector workforce. As the clean energy economy continues to
grow, so too will the impact of small businesses in these
sectors.
BCSE is a coalition of companies and trade associations
representing energy efficiency, natural gas and renewable
energy. The council is pleased to have an independent
initiative under its banner, Clean Energy Business Network
(CEBN). CEBN represents small- and medium-size businesses in
these industries.
Together, BCSE and CEBN represent a broad scope of the
clean energy economy, from Fortune 100 companies to small
businesses working in all 50 states and over 350 congressional
districts. On a national basis, the energy efficiency, natural
gas and renewable energy sectors support over 3.2 million U.S.
jobs, and it is estimated that 70 percent of these jobs are in
small businesses.
To set the context for the policy perspectives offered in
my testimony, I would like to present some of the findings of
the 2020 Sustainable Energy in America Factbook. The Factbook
is a report produced each year by the Business Council for
Sustainable Energy and Bloomberg New Energy Finance. Now in its
eighth year, the report released earlier this month, details
the significant transformation of the Nation's energy sector,
with a special look at the last decade.
A complementary compendium from Clean Energy Business
Network, entitled Faces Behind the Facts, highlights some of
the small- to medium-sized clean energy entrepreneurs who are
helping to drive this transformation.
The 2010s was a rapid period of change in the energy
sector, and particularly for the portfolio of energy
efficiency, natural gas, and renewable energy.
During the last decade, the U.S. economy experienced
sustained economic growth, increased energy productivity,
falling greenhouse gas emissions, and low energy costs for
consumers. Further, in the 2010s, renewable energy and energy-
smart technologies expanded and attracted $390 billion in
investment in the United States, with a record-breaking $55
billion in investment in 2019 alone.
Shifting to the Moving America and the Environment Forward
framework, as well as other proposals put forward by the Trump
Administration and Republicans in Congress, BCSE appreciates
all of these initiatives' recognition of the energy system as a
critical infrastructure asset. We also support consideration of
climate change and resilience as part of these proposals.
The framework we are looking at today includes many
important areas. Specifically, (1) Siting, permitting, and
regulatory reforms. Streamlining of siting and permitting
processes for electric and natural gas infrastructure,
hydropower projects, energy storage, and materials management
is critical.
Second, Resilient Infrastructure Investments. BCSE supports
pre-disaster investment to enhance the resilience of critical
infrastructure, as well as reforms to Federal regulations that
enable projects to ``build back better.''
BCSE has also worked at the local level in Texas and Puerto
Rico as a partner in the Readiness for Resilience project.
These experiences confirm our view that infrastructure planning
and investment should consider opportunities to enhance
resilience and support public private partnerships.
Third, Clean Energy and Energy Efficiency Infrastructure
Investments. The framework includes several areas to accelerate
the deployment of clean energy technologies and resources in
the energy, transportation of broadband and buildings sectors
among others.
Finally, Infrastructure Financing Tools. To catalyze the
capital investments needed in U.S. infrastructure, Congress
should seek to strengthen and expand existing financial tools
and consider new mechanisms. These tools should catalyze and
leverage private sector investment.
Energy Savings Performance Contracts, bonding authority,
and other tax measures should be considered. Further, programs
should include municipal infrastructure assets. This spans
waste, water, transportation, lighting, and energy
infrastructure.
The last decade has demonstrated that energy is critical
infrastructure. Further, the U.S. energy economy is undergoing
fundamental transformations that are powered by a robust,
affordable, reliable, and clean portfolio of commercially
available energy resources.
Thank you very much.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you.
Mr. Saperstein?
STATEMENT OF MICHAEL SAPERSTEIN
Mr. SAPERSTEIN. Chairman Golden, Ranking Member Stauber,
and other distinguished members of this Subcommittee, I
appreciate the opportunity to testify at this important hearing
on how Federal infrastructure investment can support small
business job creation and increase connectivity in the United
States.
My name is Mike Saperstein, and I represent USTelecom, The
Broadband Association, the Nation's premiere trade association
for broadband providers, suppliers, and innovators bringing
high-speed Internet and future-focused connectivity to
families, communities, enterprises, and small businesses.
USTelecom shares Congress's goal to connect every single
American to the Internet. A meaningful infrastructure bill will
do the following things: Support robust and targeted broadband
deployment via direct funding; promote public-private
partnerships; and also make regulatory changes to remove
barriers to broadband deployment.
By investing in America's broadband infrastructure today,
Congress can set the foundation for generations of commercial
growth. Many members of our association are actually multi-
generational local business with a history of entrepreneurship
and innovation.
Silver Star Communications, a service provider in Wyoming
and Idaho is one such small business that traces its roots to
1948 when they connected rural farmers via telephone wires
riding on barbed wire fence. Infrastructure and technology may
have changed, but today that small business serves nine rural
counties across 17,000 square miles and was the first provider
in the state to deliver gigabit Internet service to residential
customers over a fiberoptic network.
My point is this: small companies and digital connectivity
businesses are not mutually exclusive. In fact, modern economic
opportunity is fundamentally dependent upon access to the
greatest American innovation of the past century, the Internet.
With 50 percent of small businesses based out of the home, we
have an imperative to enable the next generation of
entrepreneurship by making sure all Americans have access to
broadband wherever they may live or work. Broadband is as
critical to America's global competitiveness as reliable roads,
bridges, waters, and energy.
With our current limited resources, we are mindful of the
tradeoffs between investing in futureproof but more costly
networks and ensuring that all Americans have a baseline level
of connectivity. The $80 billion proposed in the framework for
broadband deployment would fundamentally alter this calculation
and provide a future proof network in many areas of the country
where this was previously unattainable. Choosing trusted
partners that have a history of successful broadband
deployment, like the framework proposes, is the most effective
way to bridge the digital divide and can be accomplished on the
macro and micro level. The FCC, as the expert agency, has taken
on the challenge of universal broadband service and enlisted
the help of experienced service providers to do so.
On a local level, we have seen communities taking
innovative approaches to enhance their connectivity. Last year,
the town of Brooklyn, Maine, and Consolidated Communications,
developed a public-private partnership to share costs and
creatively tackle broadband deployment to the coastal
community, resulting in significantly faster and more reliable
broadband connectivity. Federal broadband funding should be
targeted first to the areas of the country truly unserved by
broadband and not used to construct duplicative networks that
overbuild a provider's existing infrastructure.
We commend this Subcommittee for already holding a hearing
on broadband mapping this Congress to help identify who is
served, and more importantly, who is unserved in this country.
USTelecom also commends the framework focus on adoption,
digital equity, as well as the next generation 911 services so
our emergency response networks are as accessible, efficient,
and effective as possible.
While direct broadband funding is critical, Congress,
states, localities also need to focus on modernizing existing
regulations to speed infrastructure deployment. Common sense
but necessary reforms include better access to railroad
crossings, just and reasonable access to utility poles owned by
municipalities and cooperatives, and a sensible approach to
rights of way access.
Emerging 5G technology will drive economic growth and job
creation in the years ahead, unleashing a wave of new
innovation that we cannot yet imagine. Rural 5G connectivity
cannot exist without a ubiquitous fiber network, and the faster
we can deploy the fiber, the better. The moving forward
framework would be a tremendous boost to our Nation's broadband
infrastructure. USTelecom and its member companies, stand ready
to work with this Committee, Congress, and the administration
to continue making significant steps to close the digital
divide.
Thank you for this opportunity.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much, sir.
And finally, Mr. Rothe.
STATEMENT OF TODD ROTHE
Mr. ROTHE. Mr. Chairman and honorable members of the
Subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity Mr. Chairman and
Honorable Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for
this opportunity to provide my testimony about the impact
that infrastructure spending has on my firm, J.R. Jensen
Construction Company.
Located in Superior, Wisconsin, we live in the border
community known as the Twin Ports with Duluth, Minnesota. We
employ 80 full-time, union employees. The markets we serve are
industrial, energy, and commercial construction. Our industrial
markets include agriculture and grain handling, such as CHS;
mining, Cleveland Cliffs; minerals processing, Graymont; and
transportation, including railroads such as BNSF. For the
energy sector we build facilities for clients operating
regional pipelines, such as Enbridge; Superior's oil refinery,
Husky Energy; and electric power utilities, such as Minnesota
Power.
Our valued clients often hire us as well to perform work
throughout the Midwest and the 12-state region. While most of
our infrastructure work would be considered private spending,
we have received contracts as both a prime contractor and
subcontractor to Federal agencies, including the US Army Corps
of Engineers, Coast Guard, and others. We have worked for a
variety of similar state and local governments as well. So, we
have experienced first-hand the tremendous, positive economic
and social impacts that infrastructure brings, whether it is
private or public. And construction firms like us rely upon a
steady stream of projects. They are not just temporary jobs.
People often talk about the ``ripple effect'' of such
spending, and I can assure you it is real, and it is
significant.
So today I would like to share with you some examples that
we have personally observed in our small business in Superior,
Wisconsin. These are positive results directly connected to
infrastructure spending. Additionally, we do make a point with
our contracts to buy local services and buy products made in
the United States whenever possible, which again indicates the
indirect and broader impacts as well.
So, construction projects are being accomplished with three
main things: labor, materials, and equipment. I have organized
my examples accordingly.
1. Labor. Supporting Employees with Great Jobs. People are
an company's greatest asset, and ours is no exception. Good
wages, actually high-paying wages and benefits help people to
support their families, pay their taxes, and be able to improve
their lives. We work in a part of the country that generally
has brutal winters, and yet, we are outdoors loving people.
So, think of the things we buy, such as pickup trucks, both
popular, both necessary, and common. Most of those come from
Michigan. Snowmobiles and ATV's, there is a Polaris factory and
an Arctic Cat factory right in Minnesota. Boats are made in
Minnesota, the Land of 10,000 Lakes. Lund, Alumacraft, Premier
Pontoons, all made in Minnesota. Ice Castle fish houses for
this time of year made in Montevideo, Minnesota. Campers,
trailers, and RV's come from Northern Indiana.
So, the list of things that people buy goes on and on, and
each of these I have mentioned contains steel. Mining in
Northern Minnesota not only provides great jobs; it continues
to produce the iron ore needed to make the steel that end up in
these products.
Proposed mines such as PolyMet and Twin Metals are on the
table now and trying to get permitted. Those are needed and
important. Minnesota has one of the largest deposits of copper
and nickel needed to safely and responsibly mine and use these
important minerals. The green economy needs these minerals to
make solar panels and windmills and copper wiring, tubing,
catalytic converters, batteries, and more. Why should these
minerals not come from the United States?
Spending on materials and supplies is the second component
of projects. So, for many of our projects, materials are the
largest part of the budget, and these purchases create big
impacts.
Wood and lumber, forest products industries; steel, rebar,
piling, pipes, structural beams, plates, you name it, mines.
Benefitting mines and U.S. steel mills, scrap recyclers.
Pre-engineered metal buildings are made in Butler
fabrication plants throughout the U.S. Concrete and cement
plants, all their raw materials from places such as Alpena,
Michigan. Asphalt for roads and highways; fuel for vehicles and
equipment, all produced by local by local refineries. The list
goes on including all the temporary utilities and power and
water and various things like that.
The last one being spending on equipment. Companies like
ours have to invest in equipment to stay competitive and
productive. So, think of major American manufacturers,
including John Deere, Caterpillar, and even Minnesota's Bobcat.
Section 179 allows these attractive tax rules to better
plan and make these purchases, so we thank you for that. It is
working.
And then, finally, if we meet our budget, the project
yields a profit. And this is a bad word to some people, but
anyone in business knows that it exists and without it, we will
not survive. Our firm has been successful. That allows us to
give back to the community. So, we upgrade equipment, reinvest
our profits, all this to better serve our clients, improve what
we do, and make sure we continue to offer a great environment
for our people to work.
I think you have a good example there.
In conclusion I think, you know, let's work together in
moving America's infrastructure forward, and I hope I have
demonstrated it is a truly significant means toward a larger
goal of moving American forward. Thank you.
Chairman GOLDEN. Forest products, harsh winters,
snowmobiles and ATVs, that sounds familiar.
Mr. STAUBER. Hockey.
Chairman GOLDEN. Hockey as well. That is right. University
of Maine; right? You played hockey there.
Mr. STAUBER. And we beat them. Yep.
Chairman GOLDEN. And you won.
We are going to move to questions now. Thank you all very
much for your important testimony.
I will start with 5 minutes myself.
Ms. Frazier, I sat on the Transportation Committee in
Augusta. We had people talk about a $160 million highway budget
shortfall in the state coffers with a plan in the last
administration to try and bond our way out of it, $100 million
at a time over 10 years and that would not even fill the gap.
We decoupled from inflation adjustments years ago losing tens
of millions of potential dollars to invest and politically
people are just I think scared to have this conversation, even
though organizations like the Chamber of Commerce and Maine
Motor Transportation Association, I am sure the American trucks
as well are talking about the need to address the revenue side
of things. I feel like as a general strategy it was lacking to
bond because now, we are paying interest, right, rather than
just paying for it upfront. It is actually more expensive, just
kind of kicking the can. So hopefully we can find the will to
do something here.
But I did want to ask you a little bit about freight rail,
which you brought up. Ten miles per hour, I am well aware of
that in the Penobscot River Valley. Huge problem. But freight
rail all over the state lacking in a big way.
Do you have any idea what the dollar figure is to try and
get us competitive, or any examples of specific businesses that
have been hurt as a result of the lack of investment?
Ms. FRAZIER. Yes. So interestingly, a lot of the freight
rail portions are privately owned, so it is not even as much of
a funding gap that is the problem; it is a policy discussion
that needs to be had. And letting people know where our
priorities are and that we need to work with them, and if it is
providing matching funding, to just get those rails and let
them know that it is important to us.
As far as businesses being affected, I live in Enfield, and
not so long ago, I think April of last year a large train with
a full load of timber tipped over right near the main roadway
so, you know, the road was closed. It just disrupts everything.
And it is not like they were going more than 10 miles an hour,
so.
Chairman GOLDEN. Yeah, no, it is a big problem. I
appreciate that very much.
And there are tax credits and things, but obviously, a
conversation needs to be had.
Ms. FRAZIER. Definitely.
Chairman GOLDEN. Some of those people are not stepping up
and we have got to find a way to do more.
Some people talking to me recently in Maine about the idea
of building a facility at the airport in Bangor where they
could house lobsters coming off the coast so that we could be
quicker to market, you know, those types of potential projects
at airports. What do you think?
Ms. FRAZIER. I think that is great. Yeah. Anytime we can
leverage private funding to help with that and really boost our
economy and export our goods, sure.
Chairman GOLDEN. Yeah, I appreciate that feedback.
Just moving on real quick, Ms. Jacobson, you said that
Maine ranks fourth in the country in percentage of instate
energy generated from renewable energy, yet we rank almost last
for total energy generation as a state. Very oil dependent. You
know, we are happy that we are doing things like solar, wind,
and others. But you talk a little bit about natural gas as
well. We have a bit of an infrastructure problem there. I just
want to get your thoughts on how we could do better in terms of
energy generation without hurting that. I mean, it is very nice
to be number four in producing renewable energy right at home.
So, what can we do?
Ms. JACOBSON. Well, I commend you on that and, you know,
our data also shows I think over 77 percent of your generation
currently coming from renewable energy. Also, do not forget,
energy efficiency, you ran very high in terms of energy
efficiency, utility spending, as well as benchmarked against
the rest of the country. And that is really where I would start
my remarks. It is really about a portfolio. BCSE focuses on a
portfolio of efficiency natural gas renewables but we have to
look beyond that storage, new technologies. And then the
optimization of our energy system which I know you this
Committee is a big proponent of, and you are as well.
In terms of what drives more instate or intra-region
generation, it comes to this confluence of policy, markets,
cost. And one thing that I would highlight that I think that
Maine could continue to build on, a trend that is happening
throughout the country, is corporate and city-level involvement
in energy decision making because of the information technology
and public awareness and a drive for sustainability, local
communities as well as the private sector are asking for a
clean portfolio of energy choices. So that is an opportunity
for local businesses to request the energy that they would like
to see provided to them. So, there is a partnership opportunity
with utilities and state policy makers.
But in terms of infrastructure, you are exactly right. I
mean, one of the biggest trends over the last decade has been
reduced greenhouse gas emissions throughout the country and
that is because of shifting to cleaner fuels like natural gas.
In New York, we have an infrastructure problem, and that is,
again, a local, as well as state and Federal challenge.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much.
There has been a lot of talk about that challenge, a big
bottleneck problem we have in New England.
So, I will hand it off to the Ranking Member. I do not want
him to miss asking questions if votes are called.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Rothe, I appreciate your astute observation for the
need of steel as we make investments into our critical
infrastructure. And as both you and I know, Northern Minnesota
is home to the largest iron ore mine in North America and sits
on the largest nickel copper reserves in North America as well.
Mining in Northern Minnesota, we mine under some of the
strongest labor and environmental standards, and it is critical
to use U.S. steel in our repair of our infrastructure in our
roads and bridges. And to that end, how will the high potential
for high-paying mining jobs benefit communities in the Twin
Ports and throughout Northern Minnesota?
Mr. ROTHE. Well, the reality with mining is very similar to
other sorts of investments. It is just that there is a big
ripple effect of the mines themselves with the high-paying jobs
of the people they employ, the magnitude of the equipment
purchases they buy. There is even some other stuff they use.
And repairs they make also employ many union tradespeople that
similarly work for companies like ours to keep those plants
operating. So----
Mr. STAUBER. Go ahead.
Mr. ROTHE. You know, in the Twin Ports more specifically,
all of the shipping of the Tacket A pellets come through the
Duluth/Superior and Two Harbors area.
Mr. STAUBER. Right.
You know, we have talked about, Ms. Jacobson, you talked
about the renewable energies and what have you. So, where Mr.
Rothe and I live, those copper nickel reserves, we want to
supply the copper for the windmills. And the nickel and cobalt
for the electric batteries. And we want to be able to mine it
in Minnesota with the strongest labor standards and the
strongest environmental standards and not countries that do not
have our best interest at heart. We are fighting in Minnesota
to give you and give us the opportunity to grow our renewables.
I would much rather get those minerals from our home state of
Minnesota than from other governments, such as China. The steel
dumping, this administration stopped the steel dumping which
was cheap and brittle steel to the best made steel in the
world. We want the renewables made out of those minerals that
we can extract. And I want you in Maine and Vermont and other
states to understand what we are fighting for in Minnesota. Mr.
Rothe is on the cutting edge of that.
And with that being said, I want to switch gears, Todd, to
your Federal Government procurement process for your small
business. You know, when you work with the Federal Government,
what barriers to the efficiency have you faced? And then what
certain regulations did you find really burdensome and more
difficult to overcome as a small business during the
procurement process?
Mr. ROTHE. The contracts we have had have, you know, had a
fair amount of regulatory aspects to them. You know, each one
of them creates its own little silo of a problem. So, I cannot
think of anything that specifically is a real barrier except
for the fact that the quantity. So, the magnitude becomes more
of the issue and it becomes, you know, frankly sometimes we
just simply do not chase after government contracts because of
those requirements. We have a hard time, for example, in our
company, meeting various diversity requirements and things like
that. Some of those are more common in some of the state
contracts and even some of the university contracts. So, it is
almost like either mandated hiring or mandated percentages or
all of these sorts of thresholds like that can sometimes be
pretty difficult for a small company like ours.
Mr. STAUBER. And I think that both Chairman Golden and I,
when you made the statement that sometimes you will not even
chase those contracts because of the redundancy and the
duplication, for a small business that is not what we need to
hear. We have a job to do and we have heard this enough over
and over. We want our small businesses to be the engine of our
economy, and to hear you say that it is a green light for
change for us, Mr. Chair.
And with that, I will yield back.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Next, we are going to recognize the Ranking Member of the
Subcommittee on Innovation and Workforce Development,
Representative Troy Balderson from Ohio's 12th.
Mr. BALDERSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank
you, panel, for being here today.
My first question will be directed to Mr. Rothe and Mrs.
Frazier. As a member of the Transportation and Infrastructure
Committee, one of my infrastructure priorities is streamlining
the project delivery and permitting process at the Federal
level to maximize limited resources and reduce bureaucratic red
tape.
Last week, I held a Transportation and Infrastructure
roundtable in my district with local stakeholders, including
the Ohio Department of Transportation, local construction
businesses, county engineers, and more. One topic that came up
was support for streamlining unnecessary or complex regulations
that hinder project development. From your own experiences,
what Federal regulations can Congress update, reform, or
eliminate to yield better results for taxpayer investment in
infrastructure?
And Ms. Frazier, you may start first.
Ms. FRAZIER. Well, ASCE supports streamlining as long as
the environment is protected, and certainly from my personal
work experiences, just having a standard that is in place and
followed, that we know what to expect. I mean, if there are
permits that we can obtain and we know there is a 6-month
review period and we can plan on that, but if we are modifying
a permit, there is no set review period. That makes businesses
really nervous to not have a plan in place. So, I think there
is a lot we can do to streamline and really set expectations.
Mr. BALDERSON. Mr. Rothe?
Mr. ROTHE. I would echo those statements, as well as just
saying the unpredictability sometimes of the processes is as
big a problem as the processes themselves. And we've faced some
severe issues in the State of Minnesota with getting our Line 3
pipeline permitted. Even though that's not a Federal project
review per se, but it's an example of things gone amuck with
the level of challenges and court challenges. And we, in
Minnesota, have a state department going after, basically suing
the Public Utilities Commission and challenging rules there.
So, things like that create delays, cause major problems for
projects in general to get them built.
Mr. BALDERSON. Okay. I was just looking to see if there is
something specifically that we in Congress can address, but I
appreciate both your answers. And if you do think of something,
please let our office know.
My final question, just time permitted here wise, as the
Chairman said, as Ranking Member of the Workforce and
Innovation Subcommittee, I am dedicated to closing our
workforce gap and it is something that has been a passion of
mine for 20-plus years. In your opinion, what more can be done
to ensure that the industry has an adequate supply of trained
workers?
And anybody from the panel can answer that question.
Mr. SAPERSTEIN. Thank you for the question.
So certainly, in the communications industry it is enabling
a whole new generation of industries, particularly as broadband
access comes online. And I think actually access to broadband
is the thing that we need to make sure that a whole new
generation of workforce is enabled. Without the basic access to
that infrastructure, you cannot do your homework these days,
let alone advance in your career. So, having the broadband
access, and having the tools to adopt it and understand the
adoption and how important that is is critical to our future
development.
Ms. JACOBSON. I will comment briefly. From the energy
sector, understanding the change and the changing needs of our
workforce is one aspect, but we also have I think one in five
current employees slated to retire in the next decade when you
look at the utility sector in particular. So, there is a huge
opportunity here for family-supporting jobs, careers, and very
exciting opportunities to intersect with all the infrastructure
sectors of the U.S. economy. Energy is not just energy alone.
It is connected to everything around this table. So, what we
focus on is workforce training and public-private partnerships.
And the industries that I work for, making this more of a
priority, but there is clearly a role for the Federal
Government, and I know in your Committee and this Committee, as
well as in Energy and Commerce, there is a lot of focus on
specific legislation that would help foster those partnerships
in a more robust way. And I think we also have to look at the
needs of those potential employees. Making sure they have
support so they can take advantage of the training programs
when they do exist.
Mr. BALDERSON. Thank you very much, Ms. Jacobson.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman GOLDEN. I think we are going to do another round
of questions. I know I have got one about broadband, but I am
going to first let Mr. Stauber go. I know you might have some
as well.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
To Mr. Rothe again. You talked about the redundancy and the
Federal regulations, the duplicative part of them. Would you
like to talk about two specific industries in Minnesota that
can help small businesses? We have a replacement pipeline
project, and we have the first permitted copper nickel project.
Can you tell the members here the length of time it took to get
those permits? And you can start with the copper nickel.
Mr. ROTHE. Well, when I joined J.R. Jensen, which was in
the year 2004, and purchased the company since then along with
a partner I had at the time. And I remember it was '04 or '05
when PolyMet was starting and anticipating within 2 or 3 years
to have their permits. So, if that explains it, that was 16
years ago.
Mr. STAUBER. They are into their 16th year for permitting.
Sixteen years. And then how about the replacement of a Line 3
we call it in the State of Minnesota. How long has that been
going on for a replacement?
Mr. ROTHE. That has been going on at least 5 years. And
interesting, you know, Wisconsin has similar requirements for
pipeline projects, but the 13 mile stretch in Wisconsin was
built and completed 2 years ago. And I would also point out
that the entire Nation of Canada from North of Edmonton and
Alberta area down to the Minnesota border is also now completed
and I believe put into service.
Mr. STAUBER. Which has stopped good paying union jobs.
Mr. ROTHE. That is correct.
Mr. STAUBER. Family wage jobs. And for a commodity that we
use every day.
I just want to switch gears, Mr. Chair, if I could.
Mr. Saperstein, you talked about rural broadband, and you
made a very interesting comment. You talked about the
investment from rural Minnesota into the metro. Can you give
the Chair and I some type of idea how we can convince those
members of Congress? There are more of them that represent the
Metro or the areas that are heavily populated. If you were in
our shoes, how would you convince the metro legislators on
working from rural in?
Mr. SAPERSTEIN. Sure. And thank you for the question.
I think economic growth would be the way that I would go
about doing that. And the moving forward framework does this
because it invests in a robust fiber-fueled broadband
infrastructure throughout our Nation.
So the more people that come online, not only do you have
the construction projects that are going to fuel the fiber
development because we are going to be stringing miles and
miles of fiber as a result of this, but you also have all of
the spillover benefits. You have a 5G economy that is going to
come online as a result of this that is going to unleash who
knows what when it comes to economic potential. But I can tell
you this, that if the rural areas are not connected, they are
not going to be a part of that. And so that is why we commend
the Committee for looking at this moving forward framework. And
think about all of the economic opportunity. You know, 50
percent of home businesses, over 50 percent are women owned. So
that brings another generation of potential entrepeneurs into
the workforce. So, the economics compel us to invest in our
broadband infrastructure today.
Mr. STAUBER. That is music to both of our ears. That is
critically important.
Both the Chair and I held broadband meetings in rural
communities and that is exactly what they said, do not forget
about us. Our rural hospitals, our rural schools are just as
important, and we need to protect that.
I am going to make a final statement, and I am going to
attribute this statement to Neel Kashkari. He is a member of
the Federal Reserve out of Minneapolis. He and I were talking
about this subject, about rural broadband, and he made this
statement. He said, at some point in the government's history,
they made the decision that every mailbox mattered. Every
mailbox mattered. And I equate that to every household matters,
whether you are in Grand Marais, Baudette, Minnesota, or
Willmar, Minnesota, rural areas, they matter. And I just really
appreciate, I can tell your enthusiasm for it because Jared and
I, Mr. Chair and I are all over this to be able to make sure
that rural broadband, it is not a luxury anymore. It is a
necessity for people. It is a necessity for small businesses to
move out to rural America and live our quality of life. And I
appreciate your enthusiasm.
And Mr. Chair, thank you to all the witnesses, and I
appreciate the extension of the time.
Chairman GOLDEN. Of course. Thank you very much.
Something you might not know about Maine, we actually
passed a law in the state legislature having to do with mining
that was widely believed to set the standard for labor and
environmental protections along with mining. So, something for
you to look at in your work in Minnesota. And I think the point
is taken, 5G, these iPhones that everyone is dependent upon
these days, solar panels and others, all involving minerals,
very important.
I am going to probably wrap it up here with just a few more
questions starting with broadband. One of the issues that we
have talked about here in the Committee had to do with mapping.
Recently, the FCC approved a Rural Digital Opportunity Fund.
They would go ahead and use reverse auctions to disburse about
$20 billion over 10 years for broadband. And I am glad that the
FCC is going to support this rural broadband infrastructure
investment, but I do have some concerns. And I will start with
the fact that they are looking at frontloading the bulk of the
funding in the first phase before the FCC's planned update to
its broadband maps will be ready. We have found in the
Subcommittee and in our hearings and in our work around the
country really, that the mapping data is just very inaccurate,
and it is a big problem. So, of course, I am concerned that
they are going to make the bulk of their investment in areas
that may very well already be served and leave out the
communities that are most greatly underserved. And I wanted to
ask your opinion about this. Is this something Congress should
be looking into? What can we do to make sure the investment is
made where it needs to go?
Mr. SAPERSTEIN. Sure. And thank you, Chairman, for the
question.
So, we commend Congress for taking a hard look at the
broadband mapping because we, too, at USTelecom have done a
deep dive into this. In fact, we sponsored a pilot project, the
Broadband Mapping Initiative to take a look at what are the
hidden unserved pockets out there? And people who may live next
to a served house may find themselves observed and it creates a
situation where it is hard to figure out exactly where the
service needs to go.
The Rural Digital Opportunity Fund that you mentioned I
think does one thing important. You mentioned that the FCC has
taken a step to improve their broadband mapping. In the
interim, the first phase of the Rural Digital Opportunity Fund,
it focuses on the areas that are completely unserved. So, we do
not have to worry about overbuilding at that step. At
USTelecom, one of the things that we said to the FCC in
particular was that the number of hidden unserved Americans may
be very high. And so, we have asked, and I think the FCC
committed in their most recent order to reevaluating the budget
for phase two if, indeed, the maps show that the number of
truly unserved is higher. So, we are appreciative of that.
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much for that.
I also wanted to ask, Ms. Frazier, high-priority
infrastructure needs in Maine. You advise a lot of different
people around the state, different businesses. What do we need
most in Maine? It's a very open-ended question.
Ms. FRAZIER. Yes, it is.
I think we most need reliable funding so that we can create
a strategic plan and best decide where to put those dollars. I
mean, right now our DOT commissioner said our 3-year plan is
really a 2-year plan worth of projects but that is all we can
afford. So, we need to understand what reliable source of
funding is coming and then choose our priorities for there. Of
course, roads are the most visible and bridges. So that would
be my vote.
Chairman GOLDEN. Point well taken. Before the commissioner
of the Main DOT can make a good plan like that, he needs to
know what the feds are going to do as well.
Ms. FRAZIER. Exactly.
Chairman GOLDEN. We are all going to continue to be
optimistic about Infrastructure Week actually occurring. That
would be an important move. Which is why we have had the
hearing.
I will just throw out one last question for you, Ms.
Jacobson. You talked in your plan about the last 10 years of
renewable energy. What do you want to see most? What is the
most important investment for the next 10 years of renewable
energy?
Ms. JACOBSON. Well, I think it really does involve public-
private partnerships. I mean, what has dominated the last 10
years and maybe mostly in the last 5 years is what I described
earlier, is corporate procurement of renewable energy of all
resources. And I think as many companies, and certainly in
Minnesota and in Maine, you have companies that are looking to
procure clean energy and more and more and more of it. But
nationally, last year in 2019, it was about 18 gigawatts of
corporate PPAs signed, and you know, that represents just about
half of the demand for renewable energy nationally in a given
year. I mean, the projects do not happen in the same time
period, but it is a forward-looking signal. So, I think we need
to have continued opportunity for research, development, and
deployment from the Federal Government. We need to look at
sensible tax policy which has really fueled renewable energy
deployment and cost reductions, and we have to focus on the
private sector. What does the private sector need to get access
to clean energy?
Chairman GOLDEN. Thank you very much.
On that final note, we have some important tax credits that
we did not take action on to extend some of these investments
in renewable energy, so hopefully something Congress can work
together on as well in 2020.
I want to thank you all again for your testimony and a
great conversation. I think we do it a little bit differently
on this Subcommittee sometimes. It is an open-ended
conversation between all of us. So, thank you for joining us.
Just as a closing statement, investments, what we have
heard today, there are obvious investments in our
infrastructure. Just a great opportunity to help small
businesses grow, not just in Maine and Minnesota but over the
entire stretch of the country.
Pete, what do you think?
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And as we wrap it up, I
really appreciate your testimony. Each one of you spent some
time and money and energy to get here. While your testimony was
going on, I hope you saw us just nodding. We are all in the
same boat here. I just really appreciate what you are saying.
It affirms, it reaffirms what we are hearing in our districts
and across the Nation. Our hearing in Maine, Ms. Frazier, we
heard the same thing as we did in mid-Minnesota. The same
concerns from the small business owners, the men and women who
own a small business who are the engine of our economy; right?
So, I think this is an issue that we can tackle and there are
so many nonpartisan or bipartisan issues that we can work on in
Congress and these are certainly many of them. So, I want to
thank each and every one of you for your time.
Chairman GOLDEN. Let me go and ask unanimous consent that
members have 5 legislative days to submit statements and
supporting materials for the record.
And without objection, so ordered.
Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
[Whereupon, at 14:08 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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