[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
COMMUNITY RESPONSES TO GUN VIOLENCE
IN OUR CITIES
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME, TERRORISM,
AND HOMELAND SECURITY
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 26, 2019
__________
Serial No. 116-54
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://judiciary.house.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
39-718 WASHINGTON : 2021
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
JERROLD NADLER, New York, Chairman
ZOE LOFGREN, California DOUG COLLINS, Georgia,
SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas Ranking Member
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, Jr.,
HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., Wisconsin
Georgia STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas
KAREN BASS, California JIM JORDAN, Ohio
CEDRIC L. RICHMOND, Louisiana KEN BUCK, Colorado
HAKEEM S. JEFFRIES, New York JOHN RATCLIFFE, Texas
DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island MARTHA ROBY, Alabama
ERIC SWALWELL, California MATT GAETZ, Florida
TED LIEU, California MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana
JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland ANDY BIGGS, Arizona
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington TOM McCCLINTOCK, California
VAL BUTLER DEMINGS, Florida DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona
J. LUIS CORREA, California GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania, BEN CLINE, Virginia
Vice-Chair KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota
SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas W. GREGORY STEUBE, Florida
JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
LUCY McBATH, Georgia
GREG STANTON, Arizona
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
DEBBIE MUCARSEL-POWELL, Florida
VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
Perry Apelbaum, Majority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
Brendan Belair, Minority Staff Director
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME, TERRORISM, AND HOMELAND SECURITY
KAREN BASS, California, Chair
VAL DEMINGS, Florida, Vice-Chair
SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas JOHN RATCLIFFE, Texas,
LUCY McBATH, Georgia Ranking Member
TED DEUTCH, Florida F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, Jr.,
CEDRIC RICHMOND, Louisiana Wisconsin
HAKEEM JEFFRIES, New York STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas
TED LIEU, California TOM McCLINTOCK, California
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona
DEBBIE MUCARSEL-POWELL, Florida GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
STEVEN COHEN, Tennessee BEN CLINE, Virginia
W. GREGORY STEUBE, Florida
Joe Graupensperger, Chief Counsel
Jason Cervenak, Minority Counsel
C O N T E N T S
----------
SEPTEMBER 26, 2019
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
The Honorable Karen Bass, a Representative in Congress from the
State of California, and Chair of the Subcommittee on Crime,
Terrorism, and Homeland Security
Oral Testimony............................................. 1
The Honorable John Ratcliffe, a Representative in Congress from
the State of Texas, and Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on
Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security
Oral Testimony............................................. 4
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, a Representative in Congress from
the State of New York, and Chairman, of the House, Committee on
the Judiciary
Oral Testimony............................................. 5
Prepared Statement.........................................
WITNESSES
The Honorable William Lacy Clay, U.S. House of Representatives,
Member of Congress, Missouri 1st District
Oral Testimony............................................. 6
Prepared Statement......................................... 9
The Honorable Robin Kelly, U.S. House of Representatives, Member
of Congress, Illinois 2nd District
Oral Testimony............................................. 12
Prepared Statement......................................... 17
Eddie Bocanegra, Senior Director, Heartland Alliance
Oral Testimony............................................. 23
Prepared Statement......................................... 26
Reggie Moore, Director, City of Milwaukee Health Department,
Office of Violence Prevention
Oral Testimony............................................. 30
Prepared Statement......................................... 33
Maj Toure, Founder, Black Guns Matter
Oral Testimony............................................. 56
Prepared Statement......................................... 59
Amber Goodwin, Executive Director, Community Justice Action Fund
Oral Testimony............................................. 62
Prepared Statement......................................... 64
STATEMENTS, LETTERS, MATERIALS, ARTICLES SUBMITTED
FOR THE RECORD
Statement of Mayor Lori E. Lightfoot, City of Chicago submitted
by Representative Robin Kelly, a Member Congress of the State
of Illinois, prepared for the record........................... 12
Materials submitted by Representative Steve Cohen from the State
of Tennessee, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism,
and Homeland Security for the record........................... 88
APPENDIX
Cycles of Violence, A Journal Sentinel Special Report, If
violence spreads like a disease, it can be interrupted. How a
new team in Milwaukee is trying to stop one shooting leading to
another........................................................ 99
Los Angeles Times Op-Ed: How do we reduce gun violence? By
treating it like a disease written by Michelle A. Williams and
Mary T. Bassett................................................ 109
ProPublica, How the Gun Control Debate Ignores Black Lives by
Lois Beckett................................................... 113
USA Today--El Paso, Dayton, Chicago: Media doesn't treat all gun
violence the same.............................................. 130
The New York Times, Confronting a Plague of Violence, a
Documentary by Steve James..................................... 134
The New York Times, When Cities Try to Limit Guns, State Laws Bar
the Way........................................................ 138
The Trace, How We Fix This Gun Reform is on the Agenda. But
Victims of Color Aren't........................................ 141
COMMUNITY RESPONSES TO GUN VIOLENCE IN OUR CITIES
----------
THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2019
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security
Committee on the Judiciary
Washington, DC
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 12:09 p.m., in
Room 2237, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Karen Bass
[chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Bass, Nadler, Jackson Lee,
Demings, McBath, Deutch, Jeffries, Lieu, Dean, Mucarsel-Powell,
Cohen, Ratcliffe, Gohmert, McClintock, Cline, and Steube.
Staff Present: Joe Graupensperger, Chief Counsel; Monalisa
Dugue, Deputy Chief Counsel; Veronica Eligan, Professional
Staff Member; Tamara Kassabian, Counsel (Detailee); Jason
Cervenak, Minority Chief Counsel; and Andrea Woodard, Minority
Professional Staff.
Ms. Bass. The subcommittee will come to order.
Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare
recesses of the subcommittee at any time.
We welcome everyone to this afternoon's hearing on
Community Responses to Gun Violence in Our Cities.
I will now recognize myself for an opening statement.
I am pleased that the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and
Homeland Security is holding this very important hearing on an
issue that is too often overlooked in our national conversation
about gun violence--the systemic, tragic, and daily experience
of gun violence in our communities.
Yesterday, the Judiciary Committee conducted an important
hearing on the deadly use of assault weapons in this country.
Some have asserted in that hearing, and as an NRA talking point
against strengthening gun laws, that the continued gun violence
in our cities like Chicago that have strong gun laws indicates
that these laws are ineffective.
That is not correct. We know that lax gun laws in other
jurisdictions allow those intent on evading gun laws to obtain
guns and traffic them to cities that have enacted strong gun
laws. So, today, we will focus on the epidemic of gun violence
in many of our cities, the root causes of this violence and the
trauma that results, and the various responses being developed
by individuals in these communities and the resources needed to
support these efforts.
Our cities disproportionately suffer the impact of gun
violence, with the impact particularly felt by communities of
color. Too many lives are taken, too many people are injured,
and too many families of victims suffer. It is imperative that
we apply a comprehensive approach to addressing gun violence in
this country, which should include an appropriate focus on
these communities that experience concentrated levels of
shootings.
Unfortunately, communities have developed solutions, but
financial assistance to successful strategies is often not
available or slow and inefficient when it is. This lack of
financial and other assistance is especially evident in
African-American and Latino communities.
Communities often have effective ways to address community-
based gun violence. They need the resources. In order to have
an effective, comprehensive approach, we must change the way we
discuss and address these issues and change the attitudes and
behaviors of perpetrators, educators, researchers, advocates,
and including us, lawmakers.
So, today, we start this conversation. Too often
communities with habitual occurrences of gun violence receive
attention for the acts of the violence, but little to no
attention as to why a high concentration of violence permeates
these communities. Instead, we too often do not take the time
to look behind the violence and find and support appropriate
responses, and we do not take the time to listen to the people
in those communities who are working where they live and work
to develop solutions that are rooted in their everyday
experiences.
Consequently, these communities are often not factored into
the larger conversation around responses to gun violence. We
need to examine what are the root causes of violence? What are
examples of successful community-based responses to gun
violence?
Understanding the root causes really doesn't take rocket
science, and I want to take a few minutes to describe this. If
you look at communities where you have concentrated violence,
you also have a number of other factors. You have the
communities that suffer from the cycle of incarceration and
people being released from incarceration who are then locked
out of a legal economy. And then people will survive by any
means necessary.
If you don't allow people to work because they are formerly
incarcerated, our communities do not have job opportunities,
then don't be surprised when those same communities are
impacted by drug trafficking. Don't be surprised when those
communities have a high concentration of gang violence.
A lot of this information is knowable, but attention is not
given to it. So those communities then are viewed as
communities that have a lot of problems and they are incapable
of solving them, or these communities only care about gun
violence when it involves a police officer and an individual
and that these communities don't care about violence that
happens inside the community.
Having lived and worked in these communities most of my
life, I know that this is not true. One thing that was always
extremely frustrating to us was we would work day in and day
out to prevent violence, have levels of success, but it never
received any attention. What received attention was when the
violence took place.
So I want to give you one example of a community in Los
Angeles where we set out to prevent homicides from taking place
in one summer. It was an area where there were 300 apartment
buildings. It wasn't public housing, but it kind of functioned
that way, called Baldwin Village, in my congressional district.
And we invested concentrated resources in this housing
development.
We hired young people during the summer. And so when we
think of cutting funding to programs like Summer Jobs, we don't
connect it to violence prevention, and we should. We hired
people who were former gang members, and we essentially
assigned them the task of mediating conflicts. They were on the
ground. They worked with the people in the neighborhoods.
When there was a conflict that was developing, because they
were OGs, or original gangsters--they were out of the gang
life, but they still had credibility--instead of sending in
police forces, we sent in people from the community, and they
were able to mitigate that violence. And we went--in an area
that was known for homicides, we went an entire summer without
homicides.
The other thing about shootings when they take place is
they tend to be concentrated on certain days of the week and
certain hours. And so during those hours and during those days
was when we had the concentrated resources and made sure that
young people had activities. One of the things that
distinguishes areas where there is concentrated violence where
they are areas that are low income is that they don't have the
resources to involve youth in positive activities or employment
opportunities for young people.
And so I look forward to today where we can hear about
examples of root causes, but also solutions. So I want to
recognize that many of my colleagues have taken a strong
interest in these issues and are making proposals to address
gun violence in our communities.
Representative Dwight Evans, who represents portions of
Philadelphia, has one such proposal, and I would like to read a
brief statement from him.
``Gun violence is a public health issue. Just this year
alone, we have seen more than 10,000 deaths and more than
40,000 gun-related incidences. We have run out of excuses to
not act on this. These are people's lives we are talking about,
and while we move forward with long-overdue discussions on gun
control legislation, we cannot forget the victims of gun
violence, who already deal with the daily consequences of
inaction.
``The Resources for Victims of Gun Violence Act, which I
introduced with Senator Bob Casey, would establish an
interagency advisory council to connect these victims with
critical information, programs, and benefits they need. I urge
all Members to join us in supporting this common sense
legislation.''
With this in mind, and as we discuss this important set of
issues related to gun violence in our cities, I look forward to
hearing from our witnesses about other remarkable programs that
are successfully addressing gun violence in communities
throughout this country and which urgently require Congress'
support.
It is now my pleasure to recognize the ranking member of
the subcommittee, the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Ratcliffe, for
his opening statement.
Mr. Ratcliffe. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thanks to the witnesses who are here today.
This is one of several hearings the majority has held on
the issue of gun violence. Usually after we examine a topic two
or three or four times, we should be able to find common ground
and build a consensus on what we can do to address the issue.
Unfortunately, that is a far cry from what we have seen this
Congress.
A lot of my colleagues have said that gun violence is a
public health crisis and suggested that their gun control
proposals are the only way to save lives. We have got to be
honest with ourselves. We have got to be honest with the
American people about what the data shows.
According to the 2019 report from Every Town for Gun
Safety, gun homicides and assaults are concentrated in cities.
Thirty-one percent of gun murders occurred in the 50 cities
with the highest murder rates, though only 6 percent of
Americans live in those cities.
Gun homicides and assaults are concentrated in specific
neighborhoods in specific cities. In St. Louis, for example,
where Congressman Clay is from, 28 of the city's 88
neighborhoods had either 0 or 1 murder in the last 5 years. But
41 percent of St. Louis' murders and 35 percent of gun assaults
occurred in just 9 of those 88 neighborhoods. And
unfortunately, we have seen that disparity grow in lots of
American cities.
I empathize with my colleagues that represent cities with
high rates of gun violence, but gun control solutions that have
been offered by this Congress, by a lot of my colleagues often
would do little to address crime rates in those cities. Some of
my colleagues have looked at the concentration of gun deaths in
cities and concluded that the solution is to pass restrictive,
vague laws and impose significant significant burdens on law-
abiding gun owners all across the country.
Law-abiding Americans in Northeast Texas that I represent
and law-abiding Americans who live in communities across the
country don't commit gun crimes in Chicago or in St. Louis or
New Orleans or Baltimore, or any other major American city. An
attempt by this Congress to restrict Second Amendment rights of
law-abiding Americans in an effort to pay lip service to the
idea of public safety or public health is, frankly, an affront
to common sense. I think it misses the mark on solutions that
would actually reduce gun violence across our country.
So why not address the issue of mental health? Why not
explore ways that school resource officers keep their schools
and students across the country safe? Why not look at programs
we already have in place that work to improve those programs,
make them better? Programs like Project Safe Neighborhoods,
which was a program that existed when I was the U.S. attorney
for the Eastern District of Texas.
Why not explore community solutions to problems that are
facing our cities? Some have suggested that we should not
criminalize communities impacted by everyday gun violence. What
would we say to a parent in one of our cities if their child
was gunned and murdered? Is the prosecution of the murderer of
that child just another contributor to mass incarceration? The
answer is unequivocally no.
This is an issue of criminal justice. This is about justice
for the victims of these crimes, whether they are a child
gunned down while playing outside or a single mother murdered
by a domestic abuser. This is about keeping our communities
safe, community-driven solutions that are tailored to meet the
needs of a given community that should be heard and should be
examined.
Until we reckon with these basic truths and discuss
solutions that will actually hold accountable the perpetrators
of gun violence instead of restricting the rights of law-
abiding gun owners, we will continue to be mired in gridlock.
I yield back.
Ms. Bass. Thank you.
And let me just respond, if you don't mind? I believe we
have a lot more in common than we do differences, and let me
assure you that I do not believe in any way, shape, or form
that there is one solution. I think we need a comprehensive
solution, and many of the things that you discuss I believe are
part of that comprehensive solution.
With that, I am pleased to recognize the chairman of the
full committee, the gentleman from New York, Mr. Nadler, for
his opening statement.
Chairman Nadler. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I thank the chair of the subcommittee, Karen Bass, for
holding this critical hearing about community-driven strategies
to reduce gun violence in our cities across the Nation. This
discussion is a critical component of this committee's
comprehensive approach to addressing our national epidemic of
gun violence.
As we have seen, no American is immune from gun violence.
The spike of mass shooting incidents, high suicide rates,
domestic violence incidents, and daily homicides that we have
seen in recent years has touched all of our communities. But
gun violence has particularly victimized high-poverty
communities of color across the country, with tragic results.
Every day in America, 100 people are shot and killed, and
210 more survive gun injuries. Half of all gun homicides took
place in just 127 cities, however, which represented nearly a
quarter of the population of the United States. Now these
homicides are most prevalent in racially segregated
neighborhoods with high rates of poverty. These communities
lose grandparents, mothers, fathers, teens, or young children
to gun violence at an alarming rate. This is simply
unacceptable.
Today's hearing is intended to generate a national
conversation about gun violence and its destructive impact on
our communities. We must analyze gun violence in America the
same way we would analyze a disease, as it is, in fact, a
public health issue, as well as one of public safety.
Today, we will hear about the scope and gravity of this
issue, the root causes of gun violence in specific communities,
and local prevention and intervention programs that implement
evidence-based violence reduction strategies that engage all
community stakeholders.
We must acknowledge and examine the loopholes in the law
that allow tens of thousands of guns to enter the illegal
market. The vast majority of these guns are trafficked from
States with weak gun laws to States with stronger gun laws.
Also, mayors of cities across the Nation are pleading for
changes to State firearm preemption laws that block cities like
Chicago, Dayton, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis from
adopting reasonable gun legislation to protect their residents.
In addition, the antiquated gun tracing system, severe
budget cuts, and laws placing unnecessary restrictions on the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives have
undermined its ability to enforce Federal gun laws and regulate
the gun industry effectively.
Strengthening our gun laws is just a start. Gun violence in
our communities is a multifaceted issue that requires a
holistic approach. Federal, State, and local government efforts
must reflect the need to address this problem comprehensively,
investing in evidence-based anti-gun violence programs and
ensuring that these programs are tailored to the needs of the
communities most affected by the crisis.
I look forward to hearing the perspectives of our
colleagues, Representatives Lacy Clay and Robin Kelly, who
represent the St. Louis and Chicago areas, respectively, both
of which are directly impacted by chronic gun violence. I also
look forward to hearing from our other expert witnesses about
the scope of the problem and what solutions have been shown to
work. Their testimony today will help inform our efforts to
take a comprehensive approach to addressing the national
emergency of gun violence.
I thank the chair of the subcommittee for holding this
important hearing, and I yield back the balance of my time.
Ms. Bass. We will now hear from our first panel, the
Honorable William Lacy Clay, who represents the First District
of Missouri, and Honorable Robin Kelly, who represents the
Second District of Illinois. And we thank you for joining us
today.
Mr. Clay.
STATEMENTS OF HON. WILLIAM LACY CLAY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MISSOURI; AND HON. ROBIN KELLY, A
REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS
STATEMENT OF HON. WILLIAM LACY CLAY
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Chairwoman Bass, Chairman Nadler, and
Ranking Member Ratcliffe, who I want to recognize as his sister
being a friend and constituent of mine in St. Louis.
I appreciate the subcommittee's efforts to organize and
hold a hearing on this important topic. This Nation and the
community that I represent in St. Louis are facing a public
health emergency, and I am not just speaking about the tragic
frequency of mass shootings in schools and other public spaces.
Members of this committee and the 116th Congress have had
numerous opportunities to make it known how they prioritize
firearm safety. Regardless of what any of my colleagues have
said publicly about the issue, this body has a responsibility
and an opportunity to work together and move the debate
forward. The nearly 40,000 people killed by firearms in the
United States in 2017 no longer have that chance to move this
debate forward.
The people living and working in my district, where nearly
600 shootings have occurred so far this year, do not have the
choice to remain silent while these issues impact their daily
lives. I do not have that choice.
Since May, at least 22 children under 16 years of age have
been killed by guns in the St. Louis region, some due to random
shootings, others due to accidents and unsecured handguns. It
is due to statistics like that that black families are 62
percent more likely to lose a son to a bullet than to a car
accident.
Now my community is already on track to top last year's
rate of gun-related injuries and deaths, and I know we are not
alone. Our city councils and other local leaders used to be
able to confront these issues directly. Mayors and law
enforcement would work with other community leaders and
residents to discuss ways to make our streets safer.
Unfortunately, in the 1980s, the gun lobby started
approaching Governors, State legislators, and even some of my
colleagues in Congress to make sure that these dedicated local
leaders and first responders would not be able to do what they
need to do to address firearm safety. This is unacceptable.
That is why I, along with my esteemed colleague and friend
Congresswoman Robin Kelley, introduced legislation to restore
the ability of these local leaders to pass common sense laws
and regulations. And our new legislation is directed to help
curb the slow motion mass shootings that occur in St. Louis,
Chicago, and other urban communities every week.
H.R. 3435, the Local Public Health and Safety Protection
Act, would allow the Department of Justice to provide grants to
States that reverse their ill-advised firearm preemption laws
and allow local government to take reasonable measures to
address gun violence on their streets. And under the bill,
States should not prohibit or restrict a local government from
requiring background checks for firearm purchases, restricting
the ability to carry a firearm in public places, restricting
the quantity and type of ammunition that an individual is
allowed to purchase, or requiring gun owners to safely store
their firearms, especially in households with children, and
prohibiting the sale and transfer of certain types of
especially deadly firearms and accessories, including
semiautomatic assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition
magazines, among other provisions.
The epidemic of gun violence in places like St. Louis and
Chicago is different than the situation in smaller cities and
towns across Missouri and across this country. Not every
community faces the same challenges. That is why this bill
works.
Communities who do not experience high rates of gun
violence would likely not see the need to implement higher
standards at local levels, but the impact on other communities
would be meaningful. This act is all about hope, the hope that
we can finally give local governments the freedom to protect
innocent citizens and first responders while making our
neighborhoods safer, regardless of what the State legislature
thinks.
And Madam Chair, I would stop there and say thank you again
for allowing me this opportunity.
[The statement of Mr. Clay follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Bass. Absolutely. Representative Kelly.
STATEMENT OF HON. ROBIN KELLY
Ms. Kelly. Madam Chair, before I begin my testimony, I
would like to ask for unanimous consent to enter into the
hearing record a statement from Mayor Lori Lightfoot of
Chicago.
Ms. Bass. Without objection.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Kelly. Chairman Nadler, Chairwoman Bass, Ranking Member
Ratcliffe, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for
holding this important hearing on urban gun violence. I wish
that I was here to talk about a more positive topic, but sadly,
I am here to talk about an epidemic sweeping through the United
States.
Gun violence is an epidemic that kills nearly 100 Americans
each and every day and forever changes the lives of 250 others.
Not every year, not every month or week, but each and every
single day. And this epidemic, like so many others, has a
disproportionate impact on the African-American community.
I am proud to represent the great City of Chicago, and like
all cities, we have our share of challenges, and gun violence
is one. We are a city awash in illegal guns that are
transported over our borders from Indiana, Wisconsin, Kentucky,
and Missouri, all of which are States with weak or non-existing
gun safety laws. A patchwork system is unworkable. We need a
national solution to this national problem.
To date, Chicago has lost 341 people to gun violence. That
is 341 sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers whose lives were
cut short due to congressional inaction. There have been over
1,500 shot.
In my district, I hear from young people, some of whom are
numb to the pain. Others feel the sense of urgency. More than
half of all guns used to commit crimes in Chicago come from
outside of Illinois. We can't be an oasis of common sense
surrounded by States beholden to the gun lobby.
We need strong Federal laws against straw purchases and gun
trafficking because these common sense ideas are proven to save
lives. We also need the background check bill passed to the
Senate brought to the floor and signed by the President.
Many gun violence deaths could be preventable. We could
save more than 30,000 American lives every single year. A
recent study shows that States with stronger gun safety laws
have 35 percent lower rates of gun deaths for children and
teenagers. These laws, like universal background checks, are
supported by more than 90 percent of Americans and save lives,
specifically the lives of our Nation's young people.
These bills before you today are also important next steps
toward combatting gun violence, as is the bill I recently
introduced, H.R. 4116, the Prevent Gun Trafficking Act, which
would make straw purchases a Federal crime. Straw purchases, I
am saying, because a number of trafficked guns are straw
purchased. Straw purchases are not just a problem in Chicago,
but every urban community is challenged with crimes using guns
that are purchased illegally.
We have reached a point in our country where many Americans
have been affected by gun violence, either directly or through
a close neighbor, friend, coworker, or family member. Gun
violence happens everywhere, in every community and, sadly, in
too many families. I just lost a 12-year-old today. She was
shot sitting in her home planning her birthday party, and a
bullet came through the window, and she died on her birthday.
At this very moment, we are at a pivotal crossroads. We are
seeing a reform movement sweep across America in big cities and
small towns. In actuality, we are seeing many movements
converging together, demanding profound change, much like the
1960s, made up of concerned citizens standing up and speaking
out for their fellow Americans.
Hundreds of thousands of people are taking to the streets
every few months. Just yesterday, young people from Chicago and
other young people from across the United States came to D.C.
to demand action, all of them marching shoulder to shoulder for
common sense gun laws. Our young people in Chicago have been
speaking out for years. Now they are joined by the students of
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School and thousands of other
young people who are galvanizing the Nation.
Young people are rising up, speaking out, and demanding
action, and I couldn't be prouder of them. These young people
are energizing our movement, even though many of us have been
soldiers in the movement for many years. These young people are
the reinforcements that we always needed.
Our numbers keep growing. Every day, more and more people
are realizing their safety and security is eroding. More and
more people are joining the fight for common sense gun reform.
In closing, I do want to say this is not about taking guns
away from people who have them legally, and they are not trying
to hurt me, you, or anybody else. Also I know it will take more
than laws. It will take improved police-community relations and
also will take investing in our neighborhoods and scaling up
effective programs that I know exist in the Chicagoland area.
I wrote a report in 2014 called the Kelly Report on Guns,
and it discusses root causes and solutions and that this is a
public health crisis. And lastly, we like to blame mental
health, but more people with mental health are hurt by guns
than hurt other people.
I yield back.
[The statement of Ms. Kelly follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Bass. Thank you very much for your time and your
testimony, and I will look forward to that report that you
mentioned. You wrote it 5 years ago?
Ms. Kelly. Yes, and we are updating it.
Ms. Bass. Okay. I would like to now bring forward our
panel. Could our panel come forward? Mr. Bocanegra, Amber
Goodwin, Reggie Moore, Maj Toure.
[Pause.]
Ms. Bass. Now if you would please rise, I will begin by
swearing you in. If you would please rise? Raise your right
hand.
Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the
testimony you are about to give is true and correct, to the
best of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you
God?
[Response.]
Ms. Bass. Thank you. Let the record show the witnesses
answered in the affirmative.
Thank you, and appreciate your coming forward today.
Please note that your written statements will be entered
into the record in their entirety. Accordingly, I ask that you
summarize your testimony in 5 minutes.
To help you stay within that time, there is a timing light
on your table. When the light switches from green to yellow,
you will have 1 minute to conclude your testimony. When the
light turns red, it signals that your 5 minutes have expired.
I want to first introduce Amber Goodwin. Ms. Goodwin is the
founding director of the Community Justice Action Fund and the
Community Justice Reform Coalition. CJAF is the Nation's
leading gun violence prevention organization, working on
policy, education, leadership development, and building
resources centered on communities of color. Under Amber's
leadership, CJAF is filling a critical role in advocating for
solutions and leadership roles for marginalized communities of
color.
Eddie Bocanegra, Mr. Bocanegra is the senior director of
READI. Do you say ``read-eye''?
Mr. Bocanegra. READI Chicago.
Ms. Bass. Oh, ``ready,'' okay. READI Chicago. In this role,
he oversees the management and implementation of the evidence-
based and trauma-informed program to reduce violence and
promote safety and opportunity. Mr. Bocanegra brings years of
experience in community-based organizations and programs
created to address trauma and build resiliency among those most
impacted by violence.
Reggie Moore currently serves as the injury and violence
prevention director of the City of Milwaukee, and I believe
Representative Gwen Moore is here or was here. You are one of
her constituents. The director of the City of Milwaukee Office
of Violence Prevention, a division of the Milwaukee Health
Department.
Mr. Moore leads the city's efforts to assess, prevent, and
decrease incidence of structural and community violence. He
facilitated the development of Milwaukee's first comprehensive
violence prevention plan, known as the ``Blueprint for Peace,''
which is a community-centered plan that takes a public health
approach to addressing the root causes of violence and trauma.
Mr. Moore leads the National Youth Activism Program for the
Truth Initiative in Washington, D.C., where he designed and
implemented programs to increase public health advocacy among
youth throughout the country.
Mr. Toure is the founder of Black Guns Matter. He believes
that Americans in inner cities must be allowed to exercise
their Second Amendment right and challenge the status quo for
smaller amounts of people to carry, but not most others. I
don't know. I think that didn't sound right.
We welcome all of our distinguished witnesses and thank
them for participating in today's hearing.
Mr. Bocanegra.
TESTIMONY OF EDUARDO BOCANEGRA, SENIOR DIRECTOR, HEARTLAND
ALLIANCE; REGGIE MOORE, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF VIOLENCE
PREVENTION, ON BEHALF OF CITY OF MILWAUKEE HEALTH DEPARTMENT;
MAJ TOURE, FOUNDER, BLACK GUNS MATTER; AND AMBER GOODWIN,
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COMMUNITY JUSTICE ACTION FUND AND COMMUNITY
JUSTICE REFORM COALITION
TESTIMONY OF EDUARDO BOCANEGRA
Mr. Bocanegra. Good morning, Chairman Bass and Ranking
Member Ratcliffe and members of the committee.
Oh, sorry. Is it on?
So, again, thank you for the opportunity to appear before
you today to discuss the gun violence facing communities across
our Nation and to share the actions of Heartland Alliance and
other organizations, advocates, and survivors of violence in
Chicago, while working around the clock to make our communities
safer.
Communities across our country are struggling with
violence, cities like Baltimore, Detroit, St. Louis, Chicago.
Much of this violence is concentrated in a handful of
impoverished neighborhoods. This year alone, Chicago has had
over 2,000 shootings and over 300 homicides as a result of gun
violence. Just this past weekend, 21 people were wounded, and 5
were killed.
Behind every shooting, there is a family left to grapple
with the aftermath. Mothers, like Mrs. Jennings, whose son was
shot 19 times, and Rodney Bell, who was shot in the face
multiple times. I had the honor of knowing these young men, and
I personally witnessed their efforts to change the
circumstances they were born into. These killings and resulting
trauma are preventable.
Neighborhoods with high levels of violence routinely face
other compounding survival issues, like limited or no access to
employment, safe housing, health and mental services, and more.
This results in a heartbreaking cycle of poverty, violence, and
trauma. And we know that exposure to violence and trauma can
make people react in unpredictable ways that may not be
appropriate to the situation.
Much of gun violence in Chicago, for example, is the result
of a split-second decision by traumatized individuals who have
grown up surrounded by violence. I know this from personal
experience.
I witnessed violence and domestic abuse at home when I was
6 years old. By the time I was 13, I witnessed my first
homicide. I was 17 when a close friend of mine died in front of
me, and by the time I was 18, I was sentenced to 29 years in
prison for murder.
In prison, I saw that most people look exactly like me. The
men who rotated through what seemed like revolving prison doors
shared the same goals as me, never to return. Somehow many of
us fell short. Nearly everyone who returned to prison lacked
the same things, a plan for how to survive outside of prison; a
network of people who would stick by them, and when they faced
setbacks, they would be there; access to support systems to
help them cope with feelings of hopelessness, loss, and
frustrations.
Since my release from prison 11 years ago, I have earned a
Bachelor's from Northeastern Illinois University and a Master's
degree from the University of Chicago. I have created
innovative approaches to leveraging marginalized groups as part
of the solution, such as U.S. veterans, parents who lost
children to violence, and people with justice involvement.
My perspective on this deeply--my perspective on this is
deeply informed by my personal experience and education. I am
proud to be a part of a movement in Chicago that aims to
dramatically reduce cycle of poverty and violence in our city.
The surge in gun violence in Chicago 2 years ago spurred action
in unprecedented ways.
A coalition of more than 40 Chicago funders and foundations
under the umbrella of Partnerships for Safety and Peaceful
Communities courageously aligned their funding to support
proven and promising programs and approaches to reducing gun
violence, rebuilding communities and developing leaders who can
sustain safety and opportunity.
There is a number of promising initiatives that can serve
as models, including the Metropolitan Peace Academy, lead by
Communities Partnering for Peace, which was established to
professionalize street outreach work; Chicago CRED; Chicago
Public Schools Safe Passage, which was designed to provide safe
routes for students while traveling to and from school; and
READI Chicago, the program that I run.
With our six partners, we relentlessly engage men who are
most highly impacted by gun violence and connect them with paid
employment, cognitive behavioral therapy, and supportive
services. READI Chicago is being evaluated by the University of
Chicago's Urban Labs so that we can learn all that we can about
what is taking--what it takes to meaningfully identify and
engage men who are at the highest risk of gun involvement and
keep them alive.
There are no Federal programs designed to support bold,
comprehensive responses to prevent violence like ours.
Importantly, very few programs are led by people like me with
life experience like mine. We urgently need attention and
sustained investment in people who are the most at risk before
more lives are lost.
And I wanted to close by sharing a story of one of our--of
those that we lost. When I first met Davon, he was unhappy with
his life and community. He joined our program and started to
see change. He was beginning to plan for a future. Tragically,
Davon was shot and killed just about 2 months ago on an
afternoon, 5:45, as he was heading back home from work.
And I can't help but to think about the young man who ran
up to Davon and shot him. What if he had been given the tools
to help him pause and think? What if he had been surrounded by
people who cared enough about him, to address his pains or
grievances and change his thoughts? Perhaps Davon would still
be alive.
After spending much of my time in prison contemplating how
my future would have meaning, my goal is clear. To use my
experience as a former gang member and inmate, as well as my
formal education to save lives and to help others with
backgrounds like mine find and achieve their own dreams for a
safer and better future.
We can do this, and I appreciate your support.
[The statement of Mr. Bocanegra follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Bass. Thank you. Thank you.
Mr. Moore. It is hard to look at those pictures, you know?
TESTIMONY OF REGGIE MOORE
Mr. Moore. Thank you, Chairwoman Bass, Ranking Member
Ratcliffe, and other members of the subcommittee, for providing
the opportunity for me to speak before you today.
Again, my name is Reggie Moore. I am the director of the
City of Milwaukee's Office of Violence Prevention, and I want
to start by thanking my esteemed congresswoman, Gwen Moore from
Wisconsin's Fourth District, for her invitation to address this
critically important issue. I am sure she shares our excitement
for being the host for the 2020 Democratic National Convention
in our city.
And I would also like to acknowledge Congressman
Sensenbrenner for his many years of service, who also serves on
this committee.
I am grateful for this opportunity to share the vision,
approach, and progress Milwaukee has made toward addressing
violence as a public health issue not only because this topic
is deeply personal for me, but because we are long overdue for
lifting up community-based solutions proven to prevent and
reduce violence in communities across this country.
We have an opportunity right now to invest in policies and
programs that could literally save lives or continue to ignore
the slow mass murder happening on the streets of our cities
every day across this country. Our mayor and former congressman
Tom Barrett has been a champion for gun violence prevention for
more than a decade. As one of the first mayors involved with
Mayors Against Illegal Guns and Cities United Against Gun
Violence, he remains committed to this issue. However, cities
cannot bear this burden alone.
Today, I will speak briefly to you about the approach we
took to frame violence as a public health issue, the perils of
punishment over prevention, our success with engaging residents
and prioritizing local solutions, and the need for national and
State-level support for these efforts.
The pictures sitting before you are of young people--and
only a few of, unfortunately, too many--who have been killed in
crossfire shootings in the City of Milwaukee. This issue does
not just affect one community or one zip code but has impacted
lives across our entire city.
This young lady here is Sandra Parks. She was a brilliant
13-year-old girl who was killed on November 19th by a bullet
fired from an assault rifle outside of her house as she sat in
the safety of her own bedroom. Her life was taken just 2 years
after she wrote an award-winning essay about gun violence.
They all should be here today, whether taking a tour of the
national Capitol with other children that we encountered on our
way here or actually sitting at this table as advocates. And
unfortunately, none of them will have the opportunity to sit in
the seats that you are sitting, with the power and ability to
make a change in this country on this issue.
I want to briefly read a passage that she wrote in her
essay that I think underscores the impact that many children in
our country feel in cities and in neighborhoods as it relates
to gun violence. ``Sometimes I sit back, and I have to escape
from what I see and hear every day. I put on my headphones and
let the music take me away. I move to the beat, and I try to
think about life and what everything means. When I do, I come
to the same conclusion. We are in a state of chaos.
``In the city in which I live, I hear and see examples of
chaos almost every day. Little children are victims of
senseless gun violence. We must not allow the lies of violence,
racism, and prejudice to be our truth. The truth begins with
us. Instead of passing each other like ships in the night, we
must fight until our truths stretch to the ends of this
world.''
Launched in 2008, the Office of Violence Prevention sits
within the Milwaukee Health Department. Our mission is to
prevent and reduce violence through partnerships that
strengthen young people, families, and neighborhoods. Under the
leadership of Mayor Barrett, Milwaukee launched the office in
2008, placing the office in the Health Department, underscoring
our commitment early to treating this as a public health issue.
Unfortunately, in cities across the country, violence has
often been simplistically regarded as bad people doing bad
things in bad places, punishable by death, divestment, or
confinement. This has led to a manmade disaster for young
people, families, and neighborhoods. Instead of addressing the
root causes of violence, we decided to punish it. In many
cities, poverty, trauma, unemployment became an issue for the
criminal justice system to manage, especially in African-
American communities.
We cannot talk about violence in Milwaukee without talking
about mass incarceration. As of the 2010 Census, Wisconsin had
the highest incarceration rate of black males nationwide,
locking up 12.8 percent of black male residents, compared to
the country's 6.7 percent average at that time. Out of 56
majority black communities in Wisconsin, 31 are jails or
prisons.
Concentrated punishment is an expensive habit that has had
a significant impact on local and State taxes more than
housing, transportation, higher education, youth development,
or public health. In 1970, Milwaukee was a thriving industrial
city with a relatively low poverty rate. But decades of
industrial decline and population loss have taken their toll.
By 2019, the city spends over $300 million, 40 percent of
the city's budget, on law enforcement alone. This cost exceeds
the total amount of revenue collected through property tax
levied for the entire city.
Milwaukee clearly cares about public safety, but this is
fiscally and morally unsustainable for our community. The
punishment of disadvantage hides the deep and cumulative impact
of policy decisions so that the real work of solving these
problems never happens. High neighborhood unemployment rates
are never addressed, the foster care system is never repaired,
and underfunded schools close en masse.
In Milwaukee, in 2017, we engaged the community in
developing a comprehensive violence prevention plan called the
Blueprint for Peace. In the written document, you have copies
of that, and this is a comprehensive approach that calls for
all hands on deck to addressing this issue so that we can stop
the pipeline from pain instead of investing in incarceration
and death on the backend.
Thank you.
[The statement of Mr. Moore follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Bass. Thank you very much.
And before we go to the next witness, I just wanted to
detour a little bit and let Representative Jackson Lee have a
few words before she has to leave, and then we will come to
you, Mr. Toure.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Let me accept the courtesies in the
proficient and efficient manner to respect all members, but I
had to acknowledge all the witnesses, first of all, and to hear
you talk about the redemption, as opposed to incarceration and
murder and death at the end. But I want to acknowledge my
fellow Texan and fellow Houstonian Amber Goodwin and to let her
know that if she sees me stepping out, I am managing bills on
the floor. That is another place way away.
But I wanted to say not only does she have the wisdom to
organize and be the founding member, the director of the
Community Justice Action Fund and the Community Justice Reform
Coalition dealing with gun violence, but we have worked
together in organizing and empowering people. And if there is
anyone that can be solution oriented on these questions, Madam
Chair and to the ranking member, it is Amber, along with her
fellow witnesses.
And Amber, I look forward to us being in tandem as we sort
of lift this up in the many challenges that we have in our
hometown, but in the Nation. Let me thank you for the work that
you have done and my privilege to be here to welcome you.
Forgive me. I hope you will stay around, and I can catch up
with you, if I am allowed to say that on the record.
Thank you very much. Madam Chair, let me yield back to you
as I thank this fellow Texan.
Thank you.
Ms. Goodwin. Thank you.
Ms. Bass. Mr. Toure.
TESTIMONY OF MAJ TOURE
Mr. Toure. Good morning. Thanks, everybody, for having me.
I appreciate everyone listening.
Can you all hear me? Good? Okay.
Good afternoon. My name is Maj Toure. I am the cofounder of
Black Guns Matter. Our organization travels around the country
to address firearms-related rights and responsibilities. Each
one of our classes, which happen in libraries, churches,
recreation centers, and even on street corners, where we
discuss firearm safety, conflict resolution, and the law.
My travels have afforded me a unique opportunity to see
firsthand the issue of violence in our urban centers, as well
as the failures and successes of various approaches. Black Guns
Matter started 4 years ago, and the data we have collected has
been and will continue to be a very valuable tool in saving
lives and protecting freedoms as stated in the Constitution and
Bill of Rights.
Personally, I know that today's hearing is centered on
quelling the violence in urban communities, but the phrasing is
a bit off. We do not have a gun violence issue in our urban
centers. But we do have a host of other issues that, coupled
with the lack of de-escalation tools, lead to violence.
What we are experiencing is not an issue with guns, per se,
but more lack of ability to navigate trauma. If we are going to
address violence in urban America, we need to address violence
of all kinds. Singling out firearms is a tremendous misstep in
solving the issue, and I hope my testimony today will assist in
redirecting our focus.
One of the first ways that we have tackled this issue with
Black Guns Matter is by identifying and labeling answers as
``solutionary.'' Giving urban Americans tangible skills has
been very impactful because we define not only what our
approach is, but also a parameter for staying the course of
solution-based thinking. By naming what we are doing, we have
given Americans all around the country an ideology to galvanize
around solutions more so than further focusing on the problem.
Our focus is solutions to violence. Our approach is
conflict resolution. Our goal is saving lives and mitigating
trauma. Our results have been and are healing while defending
freedoms. This is the solutionary way that has been effective.
In 2016, when we started Black Guns Matter, it was a result
of a steady barrage of media images that depicted our
communities as violent and savage. That year, one of my best
friends was shot in the head because of negligence.
As news of his death circulated, I couldn't----
Ms. Bass. Your microphone?
Mr. Toure. As news--my microphone is turned off. Is it on?
Ms. Bass. Ms. Goodwin, maybe you could move your mike over?
Let us see.
Mr. Toure. How about this one?
Ms. Bass. Yes.
Mr. Toure. Okay, cool. Try it again.
As news of his death circulated, I couldn't help but think
how easy it would have been to ensure he knew the basics of
conflict resolution and safety. I recognized that in addition
to doing a voter registration drive that year, we needed to do
a license to carry drive by inviting people in my community to
be safe and responsible gun owners.
That year, we hosted our first class in North Philadelphia,
where I am from, expecting 35 people. Instead, 350 showed up to
learn. Guns are a taboo topic in urban America. Therefore,
safety training has purposely been withheld in our communities,
and the homicide rates are a direct reflection of that
ignorance.
That year we started Black Guns Matter, Philadelphia saw
the lowest firearm-related deaths it had since 1979. After
weekly ongoing classes, which continued to overflow from the
space, we began getting calls in other cities. We need you to
come to Baltimore, Chicago, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Compton, to
host some of these classes.
With the support of crowdfunding, we started a 13 cities
tour, began visiting cities with the highest homicide rates to
inform members of the community on conflict resolution, de-
escalation, and training. This is a place where people from
both sides of the aisle can agree that this simple act of free
education is saving people in my community from prison,
negligence, and death.
I want to take this time, this moment to provide a bit more
in-depth information about what our classes include. Also I
want to let you know that we have now trained over hundreds of
thousands of people across the country and have been in almost
all 50 States, taking an approach that not only preserves
freedoms but empowers the people.
The first component to every class is firearm safety. The
power that comes with firearms ownership is also a tremendous
responsibility. Safety training and education to prevent
negligent death is something we control with proper knowledge
around firearm safety.
I have a little bit of time left. So I am going to cut back
on some of this testimony.
The LAW. Lawyers, prison, families, freedom. We have
tremendous success in sharing local laws by inviting lawyers to
teach beginners who may not know local carry, proper storage
and handling laws, and things of such.
The last one, conflict resolution. According to the CDC, of
the 12,979 firearm homicides in the United States in 2015, 81
percent occurred in urban areas. For example, 2014, in
Philadelphia's safest police district, which is approximately
85 percent white, no one was reported to be killed by gun
violence. The homicide rate for black Americans in all 50
States is on average 8 times higher.
Importantly, most urban areas, especially those that
experience the most gun violence, are characterized by poverty,
inequality, racial segregation, and a lack of education around
firearm safety.
In closing, in the last 4 years, we have developed a
curriculum. This is developed. We have developed a curriculum
based on lived experience and case studies all around this
Nation and some of the areas that suffer the most poverty,
human rights restrictions, and negligence in the country. Our
experiences with applying these solutions have been that most
people, regardless of political affiliation, respect our
people-powered initiative.
Communities can solve these problems on our own primarily
because we have taken this holistic, solution-based approach
more than the ``guns are bad, and the problems will just go
away if you restrict them'' attempt.
To add more restrictions to good Americans solves nothing.
Education and solidarity around intelligence has been the most
productive means of striking balance between solutions and
respect for rights. And I don't in any way think punishment
solves problems more than proper education from a holistic and
freedom-based perspective.
Thank you for your time. I know that we, as Americans, can
solve this issue with logic and respect for our Bill of Rights.
[The statement of Mr. Toure follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Bass. Ms. Goodwin.
TESTIMONY OF AMBER GOODWIN
Ms. Goodwin. Thank you, Chairwoman Bass and Ranking Member
Ratcliffe--also a fellow Texan--and members of the
subcommittee, for inviting me and having the opportunity to
testify today.
My name is Amber Goodwin, and I am the founder and director
of the Community Justice Action Fund.
Gun violence impacts every American community. Although
black, Latinx, and indigenous communities bear the heaviest
burden of violence, we often receive the least amount of
attention from policymakers.
Today, I speak not only as someone who has the privilege to
be asked to testify before you, but also as a black woman with
the responsibility to speak for the millions of people of color
who have been impacted by gun violence and whose voices are
absent from or sometimes silenced within the gun violence
prevention movement.
I started working on gun violence almost 5 years ago,
working for one of my heroes, Congresswoman Gabby Giffords. It
is also where I met another one of my heroes, Congresswoman
Lucy McBath. I love saying that.
In 2015, in the aftermath of the shooting in Charleston, I
listened and learned from leaders like Pastor Michael McBride
and Erica Ford, who have been working on violence prevention
for decades. When I looked around at other gun violence
prevention organizations in the halls of Congress, I didn't see
anyone who looked like me who was invited to the table to
discuss issues of gun policy.
I started an organization specifically to give voice to the
communities most impacted by gun violence and center them in
the debate on guns, but I can promise you I am not here to have
a debate today. It is my hope that policymakers and advocates
use their voices, information, and legislation today as a
launching pad to pursue a comprehensive and holistic policy
agenda that is responsive to, driven by, and done by
communities directly impacted by gun violence.
I believe and I know another world is possible. One where
we are not just talking about which individual has access to
guns, but one where people don't want to pick up guns in the
first place.
All of the community intervention strategies you will hear
about today are thanks to our loved ones who have been on all
sides of a gun and work of leaders around the country who put
themselves in harm's way every single day. These people are our
loved ones, and they are my heroes.
While there is progress, there is no one framework or
approach that aims to unify the systems or sectors needed to
end violence in America. In States across the country--
California, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maryland, and most
recently, in New Jersey--State lawmakers are creating change,
and they are doing it through policy. What I am asking today is
for the Federal Government to do the same.
We must also support initiatives to combat gender-based
violence because far too often, it is women who look like me
whose voices go unheard. Black, Latinx, and indigenous women
are dying at alarming rates, and we need to be empowered not to
just say their names, but also demand change so their names are
not just another hashtag.
I could spend hours running down the list of our loved ones
of color, including those most marginalized in our country,
such as our trans brothers and sisters of color and those who
are part of the disability community. Yet our issues are still
not given the urgency, the resources, or political weight to
even come close to making a difference.
I have the following requests of this body today. Number
one, funding. That you allocate adequate funding for public
health-focused community interventions on gun violence and that
you create a gun violence task force led by Members of Congress
and leaders in the community.
Number two, support. That you increase funding for gender-
based violence prevention initiatives to ensure that programs
are able to meet the needs of survivors and create streamlines
of funding for researchers of color to continue to innovate on
the proven strategies that you will hear about today.
Number three, inclusion. That you commit to the full
inclusion of individuals with lived experience on all sides of
the gun crisis in all future decision-making in this body.
Communities like mine are still working to address the
generational trauma that comes from one incident of gun
violence. Shirley Chisholm said if there is not a seat at the
table, bring a folding chair. We are still bringing folding
chairs to meetings and tables in Washington.
I am appreciative of being given a seat at the table here
today, but as someone who has not been personally impacted by
gun violence, I understand the importance of giving the
megaphone to those voices that have gone unheard in the debate
for so long. I actually believe it is time we flip the table
over and disrupt how we really think about the possibilities of
ending gun violence in America.
I also believe that if we are serious about building safe
and just communities, we can't just focus on the safety of some
communities while turning our backs on the ones that are most
affected. We need to focus on the safety of people who live in
the neighborhoods that some politicians will only visit during
the daytime.
I am entering into the record copies of research, reports,
and policies led by people of color organizations on the front
lines of this work to help support the asks that we have today.
Chairwoman and members of the subcommittee, thank you again
for taking the time to let me testify and look forward to your
questions.
[The statement of Ms. Goodwin follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Bass. Thank you.
We will now begin questions. Every member of the committee
will have 5 minutes. I will begin.
I just wanted to say that oftentimes when we have this
discussion about community-based violence that there is the
mistaken belief that people who are pushing for reforms,
whether we are talking about gun control reforms or different
solutions, that we do not care about the victims. But I think
it just needs to be registered that the people that do the work
like you, Mr. Bocanegra, or you, Mr. Moore, you work with the
victims, too.
The perpetrators, the victims are the same people in the
same community. And so when you are calling for solutions that
involve criminal justice reform, it is not without the concern
over the people who are the victims. But as long as we have
certain zip codes in this country where the violence is
concentrated, where the arrests and the cycling in and out of
the criminal justice system is concentrated, where people don't
have opportunities once they get out because we have locked
them out of the legal economy, then we shouldn't expect the
problem to be resolved.
So I absolutely believe in a comprehensive solution not
just focusing on gun control, that we need to address mental
health, we need to address education, economic opportunities.
But we have chosen so far, as a nation, to not seriously invest
in those areas. And so what I would like to ask you, beginning
with you, Mr. Bocanegra, what would you like to see from
Congress?
So you run a nonprofit organization. I don't know how you
are funded. I don't know if you receive any Federal funding.
But what type of assistance do you need? What type of
legislation do you believe we need to do to expand and
replicate your work?
I would like to ask Bocanegra as well as Mr. Moore.
Mr. Bocanegra. Sure. Thank you, ma'am.
So, first and foremost, I want to say thank you for the
opportunity just to be able to speak and to be able to raise
the issues in our community in Chicago and communities alike.
Currently, READI Chicago is about a $20 million program
that serves about 500-plus men who are at the highest risk of
gun involvement. So we use science--police data, hospital
data--to identify those who are at the highest risk of gun
involvement, whether they are victims or perpetrators.
And in fact, there is so much research out there, to your
point, that often perpetrators of violence were also victims of
violence. However, at what point do we decide that they stop
being a victim?
So it is my job, with the support of a coalition of
organizations, to really find these individuals in the
community and to provide employment opportunities in which
these individuals are employees of Heartland Alliance.
Ms. Bass. What do you need from us? What do you need us to
do?
Mr. Bocanegra. So what we need from you and from the
committee is the hope that more resources are allocated to this
level of work, for people who are on the extreme margins of
being excluded from the community. And just last to say that in
addition to that, right now all of our funding is--for the most
part is coming from the private sector. We need Federal dollars
behind us.
Ms. Bass. Right.
Mr. Bocanegra. Especially as we are learning more about
this population as well.
Ms. Bass. Okay. Let me move on to Mr. Moore.
Mr. Moore. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Milwaukee is one of several cities that received a ReCAST
grant. ReCAST stands for----
Ms. Bass. What type? ReCAST?
Mr. Moore. ReCAST, Building Resilience in Communities After
Stress and Trauma. It is housed in the Substance Abuse and
Mental Health Services Administration. It is a 5-year grant,
and we are entering the fourth year. And so I would ask if you
would prioritize that those funds continue because they
prioritize communities that have had high rates of gun violence
as well as trauma.
The other opportunity, Congresswoman Moore has a bill
around conflict mediation that I think could support many of
the things that have been presented today, but prioritizes
building that capacity in local communities as far as formerly
incarcerated and folks that are doing violence interruptions.
Ms. Bass. Ms. Goodwin.
Ms. Goodwin. I think one of the most important or, I guess,
two very important pieces. One is on research. Most of the
prison strategies that either you heard about today or you have
on the record were innovated and actually started in the '90s.
So that is Operation Ceasefire. That is Cure Violence.
But what we haven't been able to do from a research
component is, one, be able to really innovate on those
strategies. There is someone who is based out of California
named DeVone Boggan, who has been really incredible in
innovating and started the office----
Ms. Bass. I am sorry to interrupt you, but before I run out
of time.
Ms. Goodwin. Oh, yes.
Ms. Bass. Mr. Toure, you mentioned the curriculum. Is your
program funded?
Mr. Toure. We have raised about--I am back. I think they
got me back online.
We raised about $235,000 from crowdsourcing. We have been
able to maintain this 50-State tour. We have a goal of $1
million that was raised incrementally. So we spend that and go
to these different cities as we do that. But as far as our----
Ms. Bass. Okay. So let me ask you all, and you can just
raise your hand with this. Do you have programs that Members of
Congress could go and visit so that we could learn more about
what you do? Raise your hand if that is the case.
[Show of hands.]
Ms. Bass. I would just like to say before I yield to the
ranking member, last year, Representative Chabot, I invited him
to Los Angeles to come to visit some programs that are doing
similar work, and I think it was very eye-opening. And I would
like to say that maybe one of the things we could explore after
this hearing is to go around and look at some innovative
programs that are taking place around the country. If you would
be open, I would be more than happy to organize that.
I yield to my colleague.
Mr. Ratcliffe. I yield my time to the gentleman from
Virginia, Mr. Cline.
Mr. Cline. Okay. I thank the ranking member. I thank the
chair for putting this hearing together.
This is an excellent panel that has real results in all
different localities around the country to address violence in
our communities. It is something that we can all agree on that
needs to be addressed. It is something that we should all--the
best solutions are going to come from our individual districts,
from our individual cities, from our individual experiences.
And in my district, we have something called Project Safe
Neighborhoods. The Roanoke Division's PSN program recently
completed a successful operation, making several arrests and
the seizure of illegal firearms, narcotics with a street value
of $500,000, and $80,000 in currency. And we--and law
enforcement gathered intelligence as part of an ongoing
criminal investigation, and those arrested were charged with
various State and Federal crimes.
But more interesting to me was just the detail with which
these successful programs were outlined. Mr. Moore, for
example, your goals overview, the six goals--number one, stop
the shooting. Stop the violence. Number two, promote healing
and restorative justice. Number three, support children, youth,
and families. That one, I think, in particular is critical.
Promote economic opportunity. Five, foster safe
neighborhoods. Six, strengthen capacity and coordination of
violence prevention efforts. It is an excellent listing of all
the different programs.
Ms. Goodwin, you talked about all the different State
programs that are addressing violence in communities--
California, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maryland, New Jersey.
Many times you have issues where there is not a lot of
interstate activity. So it is best left to States. But there
are times when you do have interstate activity that can involve
the Federal Government.
But for these organizations, you know, READI Chicago, great
example that you are pursuing here, and your focus on the idea
that much of the gun violence in Chicago being the result of
split-second decisions by traumatized individuals who have
grown up surrounded by violence. Recognizing that many times
the perpetrators of the violence were victims themselves.
And Mr. Toure, your three-pronged solutions for safety
education, legal education, conflict resolution education,
those are all going to the heart of the reasons why violence
has become so endemic not just in our cities, but across our
society. I represent a district that is--some of it is more
populated cities. Some of it is very rural. But the violence
persists across demographics, across different situations.
And so, working together, I think we can find these
solutions and decide. Are some of them able to be replicated at
the Federal level with funding, or are some of them--do some of
them need to stay at the State level and just receive support
from Federal, whether it is through funding or otherwise? But
rather than us legislate, simply support the efforts that you
are pursing.
So I have got 1 minute left. Mr. Toure, since I ended with
you, if you can talk about in particular, as an attorney, I was
taught, I tried to teach my clients that ignorance of the law
is not a defense. So you can't just go into court and say I
didn't know that it was illegal. Judge, jury is not going to
buy that.
Can you talk about your education program there and how
that is having an effect?
Mr. Toure. Yes, so each--because we have been to all of the
cities that everyone here lives in. I moved to Chicago for a
month to do conflict resolution for a month. South Side,
whatever side. Point being is, each locality is different.
So the people in that particular locality--for example, in
Philadelphia, you know, I have had guys 25 years old have a job
at the bank, purchase a firearm lawfully, not knowing that you
have to spend $20 to get a license to carry. Get pulled over,
doesn't know the proper storage laws for that municipality. Now
you have the felony charge. Now your life is pretty much over.
So now that may be different from Philadelphia than it is
for New Jersey, you know? So having lawyers specifically that
are already connected to the community to come to these
classes, as well as the firearms instructors, as well as the
mental health specialists at our actual free events.
Now they are not free. I mean, you know, this isn't a
socialist thing. They are in a space where we want to remove
the financial barrier to entry for beginners that want to come
learn. So having layers there is a critical component of it.
I am not an attorney. I cannot defend you, nor can I give
you legal advice. But that lawyer that is at that class can.
And so this is something that is standard at every single one
of our classes all across the country for the last 4 years.
Mr. Cline. Great solution.
Ms. Bass. Representative Demings.
Mrs. Demings. Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman, for
convening us together for this very, very important topic.
Thank you so much to all of our witnesses as well for being
here with us.
What a subject. As a former law enforcement officer, this
is a topic that I have dealt with more than I care to admit,
and I thank you so much, as I look at the work that each of you
are doing in this area.
With that being said, Mr. Moore, in your community-based,
on-the-ground work that you have been doing, could you just
describe for us how important--as we talk about reducing
violence, gun violence in our communities, could you describe
for us just how important the relationship is between the
police and the community? Having that strong relationships of
trust and mutual respect.
Mr. Moore. Thank you.
It is critical on a number of levels. As it relates
particularly to gender-based violence, when you think about
particularly undocumented families who are afraid to call the
police in those situations. When you have people who want to
come forward with information, but they are not protected by
law enforcement in terms of being able to show up in court, all
of those things contribute to the ability to solve crimes and
to address at least the backend of violence.
And trust is critical, and it goes both ways. And so, when
you have, you know, high incidence where trust breaks down in
communities, where people either don't believe their law
enforcement would be responsive or that if they are,
particularly in a mental health crisis, that that person could
be injured or killed as a result of calling for help, those are
all factors that we hear about in our community that have to be
addressed.
And so the relationship is something that we look at as a
public health issue, and so we work across all systems in our
city to try to address that.
Mrs. Demings. Thank you so much.
And Mr. Bocanegra--I hope I didn't mess that up too much--
there is a lot of talk about State rights and, you know, is
this a State issue? Is this a local government issue?
Certainly, there are major roles to play in those
jurisdictions.
But why is it so critical do you believe, and look at the
program that you have as well, it is pretty comprehensive--why
is it so important for the Federal Government--if we are going
to make great strides in this area in reducing violence in some
of the most vulnerable communities, why is it so important for
the Federal Government to have a major role in that process?
And what do you see?
And if you have already said this, I am so sorry to have
you repeat yourself. But if you could have any wish at all
today as it pertains to a role for the Federal Government, what
would that be?
Mr. Bocanegra. Well, the question was asked earlier, but
now I have a little time to actually process the question. So I
appreciate that.
I think, you know, currently, we are leveraging--most
cities are leveraging VOCA funds, which are under your
jurisdiction. And many cities are able to leverage that,
support families and individuals who have lost someone to
violence and for individuals who are impacted by trauma as one
case. I would encourage the folks in this room to continue to
invest and to push for VOCA resources in the future as well.
The second thing that I would ask this committee as well is
that in addition to that, I think it is imperative for us to
think about--and I am not a gun expert, and I am not here to
debate that. As someone who has three other siblings who serve
in the Armed Forces, I respect people's Second Amendment. But I
will tell you this, that a lot of the people that I work with
are being killed as a result of guns.
And the reason why they carry guns is because of safety
issues. Safety issues because of like their current situation,
circumstances that they were living. So as much as I want to
convince people to put their guns down or to maybe go through
the legal process of purchasing a gun, the truth is that by the
time our kids are--you know, our men, by the time they're 15 or
16, they already have one or two gun offenses.
On average, our program--participants in our program have
18 arrests filed and felony convictions. There is no way they
can purchase a gun legally. So I think about how do we create
more safer communities as well, and I think that by doing so,
we increase the economy in our cities, in our government. There
are more people that look like me in places like this as well.
And lastly, I would say, you know, I know there is a big
push around criminal justice reform. As somebody who's been
incarcerated, right, I could tell you that people who are
formerly incarcerated could add a lot of value to our society
and our community.
Mrs. Demings. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. I yield back.
Ms. Bass. Thank you. Representative Steube.
Mr. Steube. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I don't think there is a coincidence, to me anyways, that
most of these big cities have very, very restrictive gun laws,
yet they have the highest crime rates. And we can--I will first
talk about Chicago, and then I would love to hear Mr. Toure.
Mr. Toure. Right.
Mr. Steube. Toure.
Mr. Toure. Yes.
Mr. Steube. Did I get it right that time?
Mr. Toure. You got it.
Mr. Steube. Okay. And I will ask for you to kind of respond
and what your thoughts are on this. But just looking at
Chicago, and you have very restrictive gun laws there.
Washington, D.C., has very restrictive gun laws, but they have
a very high homicide rate and gun violence rate. I don't think
there is a coincidence there.
But the other side of that argument would be, oh, people
are getting their firearms from Indiana and Wisconsin. So these
are factual numbers. So some facts on that.
You have in 2015, gun murders per 100,000 residents in
Wisconsin and Indiana were 2.9 and 3.2, while gun ownership
rates were 34.7 and 33.8. This contrasts with Illinois, which
had 3.4 gun murders per 100,000 and 26.2 ownership rates.
Chicago's gun homicide rate same year was 25.1 per 100,000
residents.
So you have neighboring States where the gun laws are much
restrictive and in my--I would say more freedom for law-abiding
citizens, but they have more guns and less crime.
Mr. Toure. Right. Right.
Mr. Steube. So could you talk about that a little bit?
Mr. Toure. Well, that is because some of the approaches
aren't really about saving lives. You can't legislate evil. And
I think what is happening is because a lot of communities have
suffered from trauma, and that trauma is legit. I wouldn't be
on this panel with this collective of people, understand we are
in the community, right? So we are affected by that.
But the problem is when you make legislative decisions for
moral behaviors that don't solve the actual issue, that is
wrong. That is wrong. John Lott--it is a book, ``More Guns,
Less Crime.'' That is factual data.
We cannot argue--I have friends, family members, loved ones
that have been affected by this, but you know, the data is
clear. Adding more rules does not save lives. Education does.
Those areas that you are talking about that have equal or
even more firearms, they also have a general culture of
understanding of what your rights are as stated in the Second
Amendment, but also what the responsibilities that come along
with that. So that is a cultural and educational shift, as
opposed to in those places like Philadelphia, Chicago, Compton,
Detroit, the places that we go to regularly. Because there is
not more education, openness about firearms responsibilities
and rights, everything becomes taboo. That taboo means we are
not going to discuss it.
Perfect example for this, and it is somewhat similar, but
it is a bit different. In the '90s, we had tremendous problems
with teen pregnancy. Tremendous problems. We didn't like hide
more, you know, talk less about sex. What we did was we talked
more about sex and prevention, and teen pregnancy rates
dropped. That is education.
So in these places, when you just try to over legislate,
which is a violation of our human rights and self-defense, that
is clear, and then you ask for Federal Government to help to
encroach on States rights, that is another clear-cut
contradiction, that does not help. The solution is informing
young people, just because a lot of these young men for the
most part are ill-informed. They are not educated. It is taboo,
and they still live in the same rough neighborhood like I live
in, you know?
So the answer here is more solution-based thinking in
regards to educating. And I know it sounds weird when you say
it. I know a lot of people say, well, you may be pro gun or you
may be pro freedom. I think we all are. I don't think anybody
is saying or genuinely saying we want to take something away
from you, but you can legislate things away with an unintended
consequence, you know?
So the answer here, again based on the data, not my
feelings, the basic answer here is educating people about their
rights. When we have classes where guys are 19, 20 years old,
and we educate them on, hey, these are your rights. If you stay
on the straight and narrow, you can lawfully purchase firearms
to participate in the shooting sports, you know, all of these
particulars that go along with that, that young man is much
more likely to stay on the right and narrow so when he is 21,
he can lawfully have a license to carry. He can protect his
home, his freedoms.
And we are educating those people. The answer here is
education, not more punitive damages for things that, again,
like you said, the numbers are very clear.
Mr. Steube. And I have only got 30 seconds left. So I will
give it to you with one quick question.
So how do you respond to people who accuse you of putting
more firearms in their cities?
Mr. Toure. Well, they are wrong, and that is the
opportunity for us to educate. If someone thinks that, they are
not familiar with all of the work that we do around healing and
trauma.
I am not having a conversation about firearms with anyone
until I am having a conversation about safe and responsible
ownership and mitigating trauma. If you come to our class
because you are mad, it is not time for you to learn about
firearms. And we invite those people to come into our actual
classes.
Mr. Steube. Thank you for your time.
Ms. Bass. Representative McBath.
Mrs. McBath. Thank you, Chairwoman Bass.
And thank you so much to our witnesses today, and I
somewhat actually had the opportunity to work with a great deal
in the field over the several years that I have been working on
gun violence prevention. But I kind of want to take a moment
today to just kind of talk about a meeting that I had with some
of my colleagues--Congresswoman Kelly, Congressman Clay,
Congressman John Lewis, Congressman David Cicilline, and
myself. We actually had a chance to go over to Senator Mitch
McConnell's office yesterday.
And we had the opportunity to go over and to speak with
some of his very own constituents, gun violence survivors from
his district, gun violence survivors, volunteers, activists
from all over the State. We actually had a chance to go in, and
they had a chance to tell their experiences of losing loved
ones to murder, suicide, and also the shooting in Parkland, the
shooting in Las Vegas.
And they spoke about their injuries, the injuries that they
bear that only not are physical injuries, but psychological
injuries as well. One woman spoke of losing both of her
children to gun violence in separate incidents more than a
decade apart.
And another woman spoke of two of her relatives a
generation apart, that she lost both of them to gun violence.
And we did talk about our failure to take action, which is
leaving many, many generations in pain.
And so many of these survivors, they are actually standing
up now, and they are sharing their stories. And most, I have to
say, unfortunately, are communities of color. Their
communities, communities of color, are bearing a particularly
heavy burden for the Senate's failure to address gun violence,
for the Senate's failure to take up the legislation that we
have already passed in the House to guarantee universal
background checks, to fund gun violence prevention research,
and to close the Charleston loophole.
So I want everyone to understand that no one in this room
is immune to gun violence. I know firsthand. I lost my son
Jordon in the national loud music killing. No family, no place
of worship, no school, no community is immune. And we owe it to
every single American in this country to take action to keep
them safe.
And I applaud those of you that are sitting on the panel
today, thank you for the work that you are doing in your
communities to make a difference. You are taking action as we
all wait for the Senate to finally take some serious action on
saving lives.
Ms. Goodwin, I would like to ask you a question. You know,
there is a significant fiscal cost related to gun violence,
which includes medical expenses, criminal justice costs, and
lost income, most of which are borne by our taxpayers. How
could we better invest so that we are getting a better yield
for our taxpaying dollars?
Ms. Goodwin. That is a great question, and just on talking
about the costs, it costs upwards of $229 billion a year, just
that is the impact of gun violence. What is not built into that
cost, which is very important, is the cost of even shootings
and violence that we don't know about that isn't reported or we
don't have the research on, or people that actually may not
even go to the hospitals.
The hospital cost itself is $2.8 billion. And so, you know,
one night in the hospital--and I know that there are survivors
here in the audience, too, that I want to recognize--it is
about $95,000 per night to stay in the hospital if you have
been shot or injured.
And so I think the cost savings for what a lot of us are
talking about actually pays for itself, and we can look at what
some of the States have actually been able to do. And I do
think that there is a role either cross-jurisdictionally, we
have seen some cities, we have seen some States, we have also
seen some counties actually take initiative to reduce gun
violence specifically in communities of color. And most of it
has to do with funding, but it does have to do with healing,
and it does have to do with looking at the entire life cycle of
gun violence.
So I will just say a couple of States very quickly. In New
York State, of the last available data that we do have, the
State spends around--the actual State government, about $20
million. But the cost of gun violence is around $5.6 billion.
So we know that if you actually invest, in Massachusetts, they
save about $7 for every $1 spent in the State of Massachusetts,
which is the State that has passed legislation.
Legislators came together and said how can we solve
violence that is happening in our inner cities and in our
communities? And so what we do know is that there is a cost for
gun violence, and we can look and kind of talk and have those
conversations for how much each shooting costs. And there is
incredible research that is being done around the country from
people like Pastor Michael McBride, DeVone Boggan, and David
Muhammad out of Oakland on what is the exact cost per shooting.
In some cities, it is over $500,000. In some cities, it is
$1 million. And so there is an inherent cost that taxpayers are
having every time someone is shot and survives. The disability
community has been impacted every single day and sometimes do
not have access to things like VOCA funds. So there is a huge
cost of gun violence, but there is also an even less cost of
actually doing something and taking action specifically on
these programs that we are talking about today.
Mrs. McBath. Thank you so much.
Ms. Bass. Number-one reason why young men are in
wheelchairs is gunshot wounds.
Representative Gohmert.
Mr. Gohmert. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank all of you
for being here.
Just seems from observing that all of you, all four of you
seem to have a heightened sense of right and wrong, a
heightened sense of wanting to help others, and to make this
world a better place. I greatly appreciate that. Appreciate you
being here.
Mr. Toure, you have talked about the classes that your
organization provides, and it sounds like those were immensely
helpful. I am wondering, are there any classes on parenting?
Mr. Toure. Yes. So, one, we have groups--we usually have--I
will give you a perfect example. We have had generations, 74-
year-old grandmom, mom, granddaughter come to our classes the
first time, to help with parenting and create scenarios there,
as well as those are first time people have ever held a
firearm, knew about what it was, so forth and so on.
I think the bigger portion of that, again, because I know
we are having a conversation about gun violence, or violence in
general, but we are also having a conversation about culture
shifting back in the direction of a nuclear family scenario.
Mr. Gohmert. Yes.
Mr. Toure. These are the conversations that we have----
Mr. Gohmert. So we talk about nuclear families?
Mr. Toure. Absolutely. So we----
Mr. Gohmert. Because we talked about improving the poverty
situation.
Mr. Toure. Right.
Mr. Gohmert. And the surveys seem to indicate very clearly
you got a better shot at not living in poverty, regardless of
race, if you have a nuclear family.
Mr. Toure. A structure. Right. So I have a friend who does
this event called Aiming for the Truth, and he famously says
how, you know, you show someone in parenting how, okay, I am a
parent. This is my wife. This is my--you know, or my husband,
and these are our children. That is the equity for your family,
right? You build that equity up.
Firearms and the Second Amendment, safe and responsible
ownership is how you defend that equity, okay? So these are
things that we deal with at our classes.
Again, every one of the panelists today have made this
clear in the sense of--and I don't want to sound so ``broken
recordish,'' but this is a holistic approach. The only area
that we may have some sort of disagreement is the lack of
legislating or asking more people as more so than education.
So the parental component of that is definitely in our
classes at every single one.
Mr. Gohmert. It sounds like what you have been teaching is
immensely helpful, but I think about John Adams when he became
second President. He made the statement talking about our
Constitution. This Constitution is intended for a moral and a
religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of
any other.
So it constantly occurs to me if we are not going to get
back to teaching right and wrong----
Mr. Toure. Correct.
Mr. Gohmert [continuing]. And the best place for that seems
to be in the home, then we are going to end up not only getting
rid of the Second Amendment, we can't have freedom of assembly
because there will be problems. Freedom of speech, we got to
cut that out. It only works if people are taught about right
and wrong.
Mr. Toure. Our classes deal with morality and understanding
what those high levels of morals are. Again, as I said earlier,
you cannot legislate morality. It has to be educated. It has to
be cultural.
We have to have a paradigm shift in these regards that
makes a young person, like the brother said, not even want to
pick up a gun to be violent in the first place. Or a knife. Or
a bat.
Mr. Gohmert. Well, right. Like in Rwanda, they didn't have
guns hardly, but they had enough machetes to kill 800,000
people.
Mr. Toure. Right, right.
Mr. Gohmert. Mainly with machetes. It is the evil that is
in the heart that needs to be stopped.
Mr. Toure. Right.
Mr. Gohmert. But I saw it over and over as a felony judge,
the thousands of cases that came through my court. So often,
there was no father or a mother was working three jobs, and she
wasn't around as much because she was trying to do what she
could.
And it--regardless what you think or just like anybody
about the Bible, I found it intriguing, I believe. But
intriguing, the last verse of the Old Testament before it is
silent for 400 years is talking about the end. ``When He comes,
He will turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children and
the hearts of the children back to the fathers.''
And it just seems like when those are out of synch and
fathers don't care, we are in trouble.
Mr. Toure. Correct.
Mr. Gohmert. And I appreciate all that you are doing to try
to make this a better place and hope we can work together
toward that.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Toure. Thank you.
Ms. Bass. Representative Deutch.
Mr. Deutch. Thanks, Madam Chairman. Thanks for holding this
hearing.
I represent Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in
Parkland. Parkland, one of the safest communities in the
country until 17 people were gunned down and 17 others were
injured. And the kids, the survivors who started March for Our
Lives, knew enough to address what Representative Clay referred
to earlier as the ``slow motion mass shootings'' that are
taking place in communities all across our country.
And they knew enough to try to build a movement by going to
L.A. and Chicago and Milwaukee and meeting their peers and
engaging around the issues that we are talking about here
today. They did a great job causing the conversation to
continue about school shooting, but we have dropped the ball
when it comes to the conversation that we need to be having
today, which is why I am so grateful to the chair.
Look, we have got to pass Representative Kelly's bill on
straw purchasers and gun trafficking and deal with illegal
guns. And we have to pass Representative Moore's bill on
community-based approaches.
But I want to, Mr. Moore, just go back to those photos you
held up because it says something really important about why we
are here. That picture of Sandra Parks, who you said was 13
when she was struck in her own bedroom in 2018, and that other
picture you have of Quanita Tay Jackson, who was 20, who was a
peace activist who was caught in a crossfire of two cars
shooting at each other.
And that other photo you have of 5-year-old Laylah
Petersen, who was killed while sitting on her grandfather's
lap. And these other photos that you have submitted, the 9-
year-old Za'Layia Jenkins, who died while inside a relative's
home, and Bill Thao, 13 months, was playing on the floor of a
relative's home. And 6-year-old Justin Evans Jr. in his
grandmother's yard. And 3-year-old Brooklyn Harris shot and
killed inside a car.
Let us be honest. There is just no question that if these
horrific attacks were happening every single day, people dying,
little kids dying on the floor of their home or sitting on
their grandpa's lap or getting ready to go fishing, if they
happened in other communities, we would be talking about them
all the time.
And--and the reason this is so--this hearing is so
important and the fact that you are here highlighting the work
you do is so important is because we have got to deal with gun
safety, and that is a big piece of this. But your focus, Mr.
Bocanegra and Mr. Moore, and the work that you do, Ms. Goodwin,
too, on not just the gun issue, but the need for community-
based solutions, recognizing that we have got a gun violence
problem.
And we also have an enormous problem with poverty and
trauma and economic opportunity, lack of economic opportunity
and mass incarceration. And that needs to be on the table every
day, too.
And Mr. Moore, your proposal or the plan that you submitted
for the record, I think we all need to focus on. You walked
through all kinds of really important things that we ought to
do, and you talked about their risk factors, lack of housing
and segregation and harmful norms creating a culture of fear
and hopelessness, and limited employment opportunities. That
has got to be--that has got to drive this debate, too.
And so I guess my question for you is when half the dais
comes to Milwaukee next summer, and we have an opportunity to
highlight the really important community-based work that you
are doing, what do you want to take us to see? What is it that
we want to make sure the world pays attention to so that when
we return from that, we will be further informed and empowered
to do the kinds of important work that we are talking about
here?
Mr. Moore. I am going to need more than 30 seconds to
answer that. But definitely, the Blueprint represents the
hopes, dreams, aspirations, and ideas of the entire community.
We interview thousands of young people who are part of the
process. Law enforcement, hospital leaders, they are grassroots
folks who are doing things every day.
We hear the stories about the pain and what is not working.
There is a lot that is happening in our city. Tay, for example,
organized a basketball tournament in the park that she was
killed in the next day on a day of a love. And that was
organized by community members who wanted to elevate love in
the city.
And again, although she wasn't targeted, rapid gunfire in
our city often fired by semiautomatic weapons are taking the
lives of children in our city every day. But we are also
fighting back and taking a public health approach to solving
this issue.
Mr. Deutch. Madam Chairman, I am really, really grateful
for today and for our witnesses being here today. And I hope
that we can do many more hearings like this to keep this issue
front and center as a major part of what we do.
Ms. Bass. Absolutely. And when we are finished, I am going
to ask the chair if--the chair and the ranking member, if they
will allow us to visit some of your communities so that we can
go in a bipartisan fashion and see what communities are
actually doing to solve the problem.
Representative McClintock.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
We have been at this now for 50 years, debating these
issues, and over the years, we do have experience with a lot of
policies that have worked and a lot of policies that haven't
worked. And it seems to me we ought to be approaching the issue
in that manner.
And I pointed out that in those 50 years, we have adopted
many, many gun control laws that we didn't have back in those
days, in the '60s and before. And you would think that if the
gun control laws were a solution to the problem, the problem
would at least be getting better by now, not getting worse. But
it is clearly getting much worse.
You know, I pointed out that in those 50 years we
discovered that gun control laws are very effective at
disarming law-abiding citizens. They, by definition, obey those
laws. The problem is they have been very ineffective at
disarming criminals and madmen and terrorists.
In response to that argument yesterday, Ms. Jayapal said,
well, of course, criminals don't obey laws, but that is not an
argument for not having any laws. And it struck me what she and
others seem not to be able to grasp is that gun control laws
are unique. When law-abiding citizens obey gun control laws,
they render themselves defenseless against the very criminals
who don't obey these laws, and we end up creating a society
where law-abiding citizens are defenseless and criminals are as
well-armed as ever.
That is a very unstable, very dangerous, and very violent
society. And I don't think it is a coincidence that so many of
these incidents occur in so-called ``gun-free zones,'' where
criminals and terrorists and madmen all know law-abiding people
can't fight back.
Mr. Toure, you mentioned one of the things that has changed
is obviously we have seen a big change in the culture over
these past 50 years. But it seems to me another thing that
changed is when somebody went out of their way to warn us that
they were out of their minds and ready to do violence to
others, we took them at their word.
Mr. Toure. Right.
Mr. McClintock. We committed them in mental institutions
where we could treat them, care for them, and keeping them from
harming themselves or others. We have emptied out those mental
hospitals over the past 50 years, and one of the most common
situations that we see in so many of these massacres is the
person was out of his mind.
Mr. Toure. Right.
Mr. McClintock. They went out of their way to tell us they
were out of their mind. We knew it, and we just didn't do
anything about it. We used to, but we don't anymore.
Mr. Toure. Correct.
Mr. McClintock. We are in the business of making public
policy. What would you recommend to us, what changes in laws do
we need to make in order to bring this crisis under control?
Mr. Toure. Well, for one, we have a lot of those laws
already on the books. First, I want to say--well, he is gone
now. But to the family members, he brought up Parkland, and
that young man, first and foremost, to all of the families and
victims of that, you know, our energy, support, love is
consistently with them, among others. Not just Parkland,
Chicago, Detroit, North Philly where I am from as well.
In that scenario, you had someone who was--had the police
called on him over 30 times, you know? Thirty-eight, if I am--
you know, don't quote me too hard. But you have someone that
clearly had an issue. And in that space where we are trying to
make sure that we look like we are actually safer than we
actually are, you know, the coward of that particular county,
they had a standing practice of ignoring some of those things,
and unfortunately, it cost 17 lives.
So my answer to that is I think we have the laws already in
place. I think that people are not following those or executing
them properly for their own whatever their individual or
collective reasons are.
Mr. McClintock. Well, then please tell me, at least in
California--each State may be different. But tell me they are
powerless to act until a person they know is dangerously
mentally ill actually goes out and commits a crime. Then they
can arrest him. Then they can get them away from society.
Mr. Toure. Now there is the----
Mr. McClintock. But it used to be that they could get them
committed, get them treated, and keep the rest of society safe
from them and keep themselves safe from themselves.
Mr. Toure. I think we are still talking about something
more community-based. You know, there are also issues of a few
weeks ago, maybe a few months ago at this point, where the
grandmother saw that the grandson was about to do something
silly with a firearm. A grandmom, a nanny, right? A nana got
involved and stopped that young man from doing things.
This is going back to the conversation about morality. This
is going back to the conversation of community development.
This is the same type of holistic approach that we are talking
about today.
But where we are wrong is when we are ignoring those things
for legislative or fiduciary reasons. I think that we all know
that these are issues, and I think sometimes the things that I
have done. You are going through a divorce. You have a lot of
guns. Hey, man, let me clean your firearms for you. You got a
bunch of them. Let me clean them for you for a while. Cooling
period.
That does not have to include more legislation. That is
community involvement.
Ms. Bass. Thank you. Representative Dean.
Ms. Dean. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I am so glad you
convened this important hearing.
And I am struck by the conversation that just took place
because really what it, I think, advises all of us is we should
pass immediately red flag laws. Absolutely, we should have the
ability to interfere, to intervene to save lives. To say you
are in grave danger. You are having a crisis. You are not
somebody who was 302'd sometime in your past. You are in the
midst of a crisis. Let us help you.
We know that the Charleston shooter, what happened there
was his friend knew he was in grave crisis, took his gun away
when he had gone into a terrible binge drinking episode. But
fearing for his own liability, the friend gave the gun back.
So you have made an eloquent argument for red flag laws.
Mr. Toure. No.
Ms. Dean. I also want to point out----
Mr. Toure. Not at all. [Laughter.]
Mr. Toure. Not at all. I respect----
Ms. Dean. So I also want----
Ms. Bass. Excuse me. Excuse me. The representative is
speaking.
Ms. Dean. The other fallacy, the myth that we just heard
over and over again, and Madam Chair, I hope maybe we can dig
into this some more, which is bad guys are never going to
follow the law, so you can't--guns is different. It is a
different topic.
I come from Pennsylvania, and the Pennsylvania State Police
have the Pennsylvania Instant Check System. It is layered over
top of the National Instant Check System. It is actually
stronger because it doesn't have a 3-day default to sell the
gun. It has a waiting period, and you cannot default sell the
gun until you get clearance.
What that--what the data shows, not the myths, but what the
data shows is that in a single year, 12,000 prohibited
purchasers attempted background checks to buy guns, and they
were declined because they were prohibited purchasers. So
sometimes bad guys, prohibited purchasers will try to follow
these laws, and the laws work. Background checks work. We need
to make it universal.
I think I would like to pivot from that to just talk about
the issue of suicide. I was thinking the numbers are so
staggering. Forty thousand people a year die of gun violence in
this country. More than half of those, 20,000-some are gun
violence suicides.
Another 134,000 people are literally wounded caught in the
crossfire. Think about that. Recently, at a hearing, I was
asked does that 134,000 identify people who are actually
traumatized, never touched by the bullet, but traumatized. And
of course, it doesn't.
So I think let me start there. Mr. Bocanegra, could you
talk to that issue of suicide? We know that suicide rates are
up. Suicide rates, tragically, in all areas, whether it is
veterans, our youth, black males, people who are poor and
struggling with debt, suicide is up.
Can you talk to the issue of suicide, gun violence suicide,
and also the trauma?
Mr. Bocanegra. So I am not an expert in that area, so I
might defer to one of my colleagues here. But I would say this
from experience. I have had the pleasure of working with
veterans, United States combat veterans. And I could tell you
that, unfortunately, we have lost some veterans along the way
because of suicide. And not just PTSD, but moral injury
specifically.
The second thing that I would say is that my wife, Kathryn
Bocanegra, for about 10 years has worked with families who lost
their children to violence. And while we don't work with
families who lost their kids to cancer or any of that,
specifically the trauma that comes with someone who lost
someone to violence, including suicide, needs a different kind
of level of support as well for the surviving family members.
And lastly, when I started my opening remarks, you know, I
wish I had more time to have spoken on this. But when I was 17
years old, about to turn 18, I was going to sign up with the
Marines. And I was going to sign up for the Marines because I,
by that time, witnessed too many of my friends shot and killed,
all of them gang members, including myself being one.
And I told myself, if I die, I want, at the very least, my
parents to be proud of the fact of who I was as a person. So I
was going to join the Marines knowing that I was going to get
killed. And so I didn't know this until grad school, but every
time that I went to a rival gang without a weapon, and I
antagonized the other gang members to shoot me, those are
suicidal ideologies behind that. And many young black and brown
people actually experience that, but we don't talk about that
as well.
And so when I think about the program that we are managing
in Chicago and other programs alike, I think about how relevant
trauma is. And unless it is--if we don't cure that, if we don't
give it the proper attention that it needs, we will have an
increase in those suicides in the different ways that typically
we don't speak on.
Ms. Dean. Thank you. And I----
Ms. Goodwin. I can speak really quickly on that, the
suicide rate.
Ms. Dean. Thank you.
Ms. Goodwin. So, and this comes out of the Journal--I know
we don't have too much time--Journal of Community Health
earlier this year. Suicide rates are the second-leading cause
of death of black children between the ages of 13 and 19. And
this is taking the rate from 2001 to 2017. It is a 60 percent
increase.
So I am going to say that again, 60 percent increase from
2001 to 2017 of black boys between the ages of 13 and 19. It is
182 percent increase for black girls between the age of 13 and
19. The number one for black boys' way of dying by suicide is
with a firearm.
So there is an increase that is not steadily increasing. It
is happening very fast in our communities.
Ms. Dean. I can't say the words thank you, but I thank you
all.
Ms. Bass. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell.
Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Thank you, Chairwoman Bass, for
holding such an important conversation. We know that gun
violence is an epidemic. It is a public health epidemic that is
affecting our communities all over the country.
I actually represent a portion of Miami-Dade County. And in
South Miami-Dade, we have some of the highest rates of gun
violence in the entire county for kids under the age of 18. So
I think that gun violence is now affecting all people. It is
affecting people that are trying to go about their everyday
lives when they go shopping at the mall, when they are
worshipping in churches, when they go to movie theaters,
nightclubs. But I think we need to accept the fact that it
disproportionately affects communities of color, and we have
seen the facts.
And I want to echo what my colleague mentioned earlier,
Congressman Deutch, that we need to address the systemic issues
of the cycle of poverty, lack of economic opportunity, and also
we need to take action here in Congress to pass common sense
gun reform.
I mean, you are talking about a high rate of suicide among
teens. And in my district, in my community, we have two huge
gun shows where teenagers can go to the parking lot and get
guns from other private citizens that are purchasing these
arms. So there are a lot of things that how we can address
reducing gun violence in our communities, but I do want to
highlight some of the programs that I have seen that have
helped.
We have--I have gotten to know my constituent who I now
call my friend. Her name is Romania Dukes, and she lost her son
to gun violence in my community. Michael Dukes was only 18. He
was hanging out with his friend when he was killed. He was hit
by a stray bullet fired during an argument that had nothing to
do with him.
And this tragic and senseless instance of gun violence led
Romania to take her pain and take action to help others. And
she started this organization called Mothers Fighting for
Justice. Romania's organization works to educate young teens
about the dangers of gun violence. It has initiatives to build
relationships between the police and the communities so that
they can build trust. It highlights local leaders that help
reduce crime and violence among the younger generation. And I
think that these type of initiatives are so important to
helping our communities.
I also want to mention South Dade Major Charles, who has
been dealing just in the past 2 weeks with several shootings in
our community. And he brought out to my attention something
very interesting that I don't think we talk enough about, and
it is how do you monitor young teens to--through social media
that are communicating through social media, getting arms from
each other, organizing crime. And it is just something that I
want to bring up since we are talking about this.
But my first question is to Mr. Goodwin. Mr. Goodwin, you
have talked about these community initiatives as being so
important--or Ms. Goodwin, sorry. What do you think we can do
here in Congress to facilitate these programs and raise more
awareness?
Ms. Goodwin. I think one of the biggest, the ask that I
would have is that you look at the data and the evidence. And
you know, it was said earlier today by the chairwoman, there is
evidence in research from every almost Ivy League in this
country that looks at the programs that you will hear about
today or you heard about today that says that they are
effective, and it says that they can dramatically reduce gun
violence, mostly homicides, in places upwards of 60 to 70
percent.
So this isn't us kind of throwing things around. This is
the data and the research that says that it works. What we
don't have and what we have had to do is we have had to over
rely on philanthropy or good-meaning people who want to give
money to the organizations that you may hear about today. And
so we do need resources from the Government, and we do need
statutory legislation that actually makes sure that this
legislation won't go away, regardless of who is in office.
A lot of places, and I am sure Reggie can speak to this as
well, a lot of the work that has happened has, you know, has
lasted through different mayors or through different people on
city council. And so we need a codified law that actually looks
like this at a department. Like he works within and works with
the Department of Health, and so we believe that we need to
have codified into law a department to specifically work on
violence prevention in communities of color that actually works
with people on the ground in the front lines of this.
And then we need Federal dollars that can go into those 120
cities that we mentioned earlier this year that have the high
rates of homicide.
Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Thank you. And Mr. Moore, do you want
to comment on that?
Mr. Moore. Yes. I want to talk about a very specific
intervention called 414Life that we have launched in
partnership with our Level 1 trauma center, Froedtert Hospital
and the Medical College of Wisconsin, where we have hired folks
from the community to interrupt the cycle of retaliatory
violence.
Most of the shootings in our city are related to arguments
and conflict. And so having folks with the street credibility
to be able to detect and intervene and stop the transmission of
violence is a public health approach that is showing results.
Right now, we are 15 percent down in homicides and 20 percent
down in nonfatal shootings as of today.
Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Thank you so much. I yield back, Madam
Chairman.
Ms. Bass. Representative Cohen.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Chairman Bass, and thank you for
calling this hearing, which is so important.
My State of Tennessee, and particularly my City of Memphis,
which is most germane to me, heavily impacted by poverty and by
violent crime. A recent study by the Violence Policy Center
cites that Tennessee has one of the highest rates of homicide
of black victims in the Nation and that African Americans are
disproportionately reported as victims of homicide.
In Tennessee, there were 323 black homicide victims in
2016, and 87 percent of them died after being shot. Nationwide
in 2016, although African Americans only represent 13 percent
of the population, homicide of black residents made up 51
percent of all respondents to the reports.
This is an epidemic that has long-term implications. A
local publication in Memphis, the Daily Memphian, which is
online but is kind of in lieu of a daily newspaper, or in
addition thereto, I guess, recently published a three-part
series of the impact that constant stress and trauma has on the
brains of young people.
Research showed that prolonged stress and trauma can impair
the normal development of a child's brain and erode a child's
immune system. Children who experience chronic stress, trauma
in their first childhood experiences become more prone to
violence, aggression, depression, substance addiction, suicide,
illness and disease, not to mention academic failure. There is
a definite need for more Federal resources to help combat this
issue.
And at this time, I would like to introduce that Daily
Memphian report to the record and the Violence Policy Center
report, as well as----
Ms. Bass. Without objection.
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Mr. Cohen. Thank you.
I introduced H.R. 3738, the Safer Streets Act, which would
create a new grant program to help reduce violent crime in our
communities. Specifically, the act would provide grants to
units of local government that have crime rates twice the
national rate. Fifty percent of the grant funding would be
reserved for units of local governments with crime rates 4
times the national average, 20 percent would go to units of
local government with crime rates 3 times the national average,
and 10 percent to those crime rates twice the national rate.
I think it makes sense to put the money where the problem
is. The remaining funding would be reserved for emergency
grants to help address spikes in violent crime.
It is unfortunate, I read yesterday that one of the bills
that I voted for in this committee and was kind of proud to do
because I had to overcome my resistance to voting for something
that the proponents of were not my favorites, but you try to do
what is right. And that was the FIRST STEP Act.
And then I read that the Leader said that he didn't want to
use it in his campaigns. It was a loser and that he regretted
somewhat him being behind it because he hadn't got the credit
he deserved, and the people who liked it, like Van Jones, liked
him for a day and then didn't like him afterwards.
We need to be doing things that address these problems and
not worry about somebody kissing your shoes or kissing your
posterior or patting you on the head. That is a problem we have
got in this country.
Mr. Moore, let me ask you. If States and localities were
given more Federal funding, how would you recommend it be spent
to truly help solve the problem?
Mr. Moore. Thank you. And I want to also underscore that
Wisconsin has the second-highest black homicide victimization
rate, which I think is highlighted in one of the reports you
presented from the Violence Policy Center. So this is a racial
justice issue as well.
Particularly as it relates to funding public health
approaches to violence prevention, one of the things that could
be supported is 414Life, as an example. You know, we need all
the support that we can get on that, both from the local level,
the State level, but also if there are Federal resources that
could support training and engaging folks in conflict mediation
and de-escalation, which it seems like there is agreement for
that among this panel. That is something that could
substantially help.
I also want to underscore on the prevention side because I
see that more on the intervention. On the prevention side,
there is also funding after school. When you look at cuts to
the 21st century community learning centers, funding those
types of programs are also important. Youth employment is also
an area of focus that should be strengthened as well.
Mr. Cohen. Let me ask you this, Mr. Moore, and I may be
presumptive here because of where you are from. But are you
going to be for the Brewers or the Nats? [Laughter.]
Mr. Moore. The Brewers all day.
Mr. Cohen. Well, I hope you have an awful October the 1st.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Cohen. I yield back the balance of my time.
Ms. Bass. We will close out with Mr. Jeffries.
Mr. Jeffries. Thank you, Madam Chair, for convening this
hearing.
I want to thank all the witnesses for your presence here
today.
Let me just start with Ms. Goodwin. I think you said in
your testimony that black, Latinx, and indigenous people, of
course, make up a disproportionate amount of gun deaths due to
homicide, interpersonal violence, and domestic violence. Is
that right?
Ms. Goodwin. Yes.
Mr. Jeffries. And I think you also testified that black men
make up 6 percent of the U.S. population, yet account for more
than half of all gun-related homicide victims in America. Is
that right?
Ms. Goodwin. Yes.
Mr. Jeffries. And you know, from an explanatory standpoint,
every gun-related death is a tragedy in America. The mass
shootings tend to get a disproportionate share of attention,
but the day-to-day violence is just as consequential, as
hurtful, as devastating to individuals, to families, and
communities. And so if you could just lay out for me briefly
how you think we can take steps to address that day-to-day gun
violence disproportionately impacting, as you pointed out,
black and Latino individuals?
Ms. Goodwin. Yes, absolutely. So I think having a
comprehensive approach--and I know that kind of sounds like a
buzzword. But all of the programs, almost everything that was
addressed today, whether it is suicide, trauma, most of the
programs that most of us work on actually address and hit on
every single thing that you heard about.
In Oakland, in Boston, in Chicago, in places across the
country, across the South, they are actually building in
comprehensive approaches that have healing counselors that come
to whenever there is a rapid response. Erica Ford in New York
City, she has a bus that actually goes around to different
communities after there has been mass tragedy happening in
communities of color.
And so I think that comprehensive approach, but I also want
to make sure that I add into that comprehensive approach really
making sure that when we look at the homicide rate in this
country of a little over or almost 8,000 homicides of black
folks in this country, a large number of that is not women, but
women are being killed and getting killed by firearms,
especially black women.
And so I think that is also part of what we need to build
into a lot of the comprehensive approaches that we see in
cities and counties and States.
Mr. Jeffries. Thank you.
Mr. Moore, it is my understanding that there are roughly--
or the United States has roughly 4 percent of the world's
population, but about 40 percent of the world's guns, and so
that translates into over 300 million guns circulating
throughout America with law enforcement not really having a
handle on who has those guns, who may get access to those guns
in an unlawful fashion or in a fashion that may result in
someone doing harm to the American people.
And while we want to balance, of course, the interest
inherent in the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms,
the Supreme Court, in a decision written by Justice Scalia,
indicated that reasonable regulations are constitutional and
within the purview of the Congress to move forward in the best
interests of the safety and security of the American people. So
I would be interested in your thoughts, being in a State like
Wisconsin that I believe has not been very proactive in terms
of its gun violence prevention policies, operating within that
context in Milwaukee, what have some of the challenges been?
Mr. Moore. I think--and I stated in my remarks earlier that
there has been an overreliance on punishment as opposed to
prevention. And again, we work with families where we
understand that accountability is the first step to healing,
brings them to justice and people being, you know, found as far
as perpetrators.
Unfortunately, there has not been an equitable investment
on the prevention side. And so at the State level, for example,
we are trying to push for a comprehensive policy plus resources
as it relates to gun violence prevention from the State to
support municipalities, particularly Madison and Milwaukee, who
have the largest populations, in dealing with this issue.
The other piece is looking at gun tracing. And so
understanding to time the crime in terms of where guns are
coming from and understanding that there are dealerships, gun
dealerships, 5 percent of them account for 90 percent of the
crime guns that are found. And so really addressing that issue
of the flow of firearms, both legal and illegal, into our
community.
Mr. Jeffries. Well, thank you very much.
And Major Toure, did I get that correct, your title?
Mr. Toure. Yes. Toure.
Mr. Jeffries. Toure, you--I think you sell T-shirts on your
website. Is that correct?
Mr. Toure. Yes.
Mr. Jeffries. And one of them is ``Make the 'Hood Great
Again.'' Is that right?
Mr. Toure. Absolutely.
Mr. Jeffries. And what is your recommendation as it relates
to how that actually would be brought about?
Mr. Toure. You do that by having a respectful balance
between mitigating and preventing against trauma like this, as
well as preserving freedoms. I think that we make the mistake
when we lean, just like Mr. Moore said, when we lean so heavily
on legislation and adding more punitive measures, more so than
preventing, you know?
So I think that is one of the primary ways, when we strike
that balance between mitigating the trauma, educating people,
while preserving freedoms. And I think that is definitely how
we make the 'hood great again.
Mr. Jeffries. Thank you. Madam Chair, I think I am out of
time. I yield back.
Ms. Bass. Representative Jackson Lee.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Ms. Chairman and Ranking Member, thank you
for your courtesies, one from the great State of California and
one from the great State of Texas.
I rushed back here because I think you all are part of the
most important hearing that we may be holding on the Hill
today. There are many things going on. But what we are trying
to do here is saving lives.
Let me first start with this detrimental concept from the
schoolhouse to jailhouse--forgive me for the answers you may
have already given. I see that as a pathway to the loss of life
of young people.
Some years back, before it became duck for an active
shooter, school systems in States began to think the way you
deal with children is you assess them for truancy, you assess
them for gum chewing, and I say assess them, penalize them
criminally for gum chewing, for making an outburst, for
stomping out of a classroom, and you begin to define who they
are.
Would you just go down the row and answer that question of
what that begins to do in a child's life, when they start out
in school like that even as young as 5? Mr. Bocanegra. Forgive
me, Eduardo.
Mr. Bocanegra. I need a second or two to think about that.
That was a really heavy question.
Ms. Jackson Lee. All right. Mr. Moore.
Mr. Moore. I think when we look at the trauma that has been
produced and we further traumatize young people, you may have
heard about some of the issues we have had in Wisconsin with
Lincoln Hills, where we took young people who had been harmed
and put them in a place that caused more harm for longer
periods of time, and we expected them to return back to the
community feeling stronger and safer.
Unfortunately, that is not what prison incarceration
produces. And we have to have a serious conversation about how
we are treating young people not just when they do something
wrong, but way long before that, and understand the fact that
there is research out there that states that confining young
people does not produce better outcomes for them long term.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. Mr. Toure.
Mr. Toure. Famous quote. You know, it is easier to build
strong children than to repair broken men and/or women.
It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken
men or broken women. You know, I am paraphrasing that part. I
think from the school perspective, I think, again, the answer
is very clear. It is less punitive. An ounce of prevention is
worth more than a pound of cure.
And I think that in something as extreme that is clearly an
issue that we have in our Nation today, something as extreme as
firearms, we have to take that same approach and educating and
changing the thought process around this seemingly taboo
subject to prevent more death and more trauma. So, for me, it
is education more so than just only, you know, punitive
measures.
Ms. Jackson Lee. So I am going to ask a question, Amber, in
the mix so that I get my question in. My goal and vision has
been, working with this great committee, to overhaul the
juvenile justice system with omnibus legislation that deals
with complete alternatives for juveniles when they have to be
in the system at all.
So incorporate in your answer the idea that where you place
a child, if you have to place them, really reflects on what
will happen to them. We introduced the anti-bullying juvenile
block grant money as an anti-bullying, prevention of bullying.
Not enough money, I believe. But the point is, is that it was
in the Department of Justice to give organizations money to try
to deal with this.
So what is the need, adding to the question I have, for the
overhaul of what they call the juvenile justice system--
detention, indefinite stays--as relates to your work and as
relates to changing the lives of children? Is it on?
Ms. Goodwin. We see the levels of recidivism when young
people especially are going through the criminal justice or the
juvenile justice system.
But I just also want to put a fine point on it. You said
that there are several hearings that are happening today. There
is a hearing today in a different just about school safety,
right? That is actually talking about gun violence.
Ms. Jackson Lee. And I was there.
Ms. Goodwin. Yes, and we have these conversations that are
just focused on what is happening in schools. But our babies
have to leave schools, right? And the ones who look like us
have to deal with trauma when they walk home, what they witness
and what they see. And we have evidence that shows that
children are harmed in numerous ways just whenever they witness
violence, when they witness gun violence.
They don't even have to be a part of it, but they are
harmed in different ways. A couple of ways that I know, and
this is coming from the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence,
exposure to gun violence specifically with children, post
traumatic stress disorder, antisocial behavior, depression,
stunted cognitive and emotional development, risky alcohol and
substance abuse, and then high-risk behaviors whenever it
actually comes to firearms.
And so we see these cycles of violence, but I think one
thing that will be very helpful is not to silo away these
conversations, whether it is in this body or outside of this
body, because we know that there are ways that, you know, stop
a bullet, but we need to make sure that we are figuring out why
people are picking up guns in the first place and not just be
thinking about the legality of guns as well.
Ms. Bass. Thank you.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Let me thank the witnesses. I thank the
chairwoman for her----
Ms. Bass. Absolutely. And I hope that this is the beginning
of a discussion. I think that we all, from all of the witnesses
today, understand that it really is not rocket science to
figure out how to address these problems. There is tons of
research. We know what to do to address the root causes.
And we also know of programs that have successfully
addressed the problem, and I think we have examples of those
programs that are with us today. It is my hope, and I will ask
the chairman, if we can--the chairman and the ranking member if
we can follow this up, if we can visit some of the programs so
that we can really look at how we support a comprehensive
solution.
And I think we saw today that today was not the point to
just look at one aspect of a solution, but to look at
communities in their totality and understand that communities
have the capacity to address the problems. They just need the
resources.
And with that, we are adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 2:16 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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