[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
ASSESSING U.S. SECURITY ASSISTANCE TO MEXICO
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, CIVILIAN SECURITY, AND TRADE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
FEBRAURY 13, 2020
__________
Serial No. 116-97
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov,
or www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
39-652 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York, Chairman
BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York Member
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida JOE WILSON, South Carolina
KAREN BASS, California SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts TED S. YOHO, Florida
DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin
DINA TITUS, Nevada ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota JOHN CURTIS, Utah
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota KEN BUCK, Colorado
COLIN ALLRED, Texas RON WRIGHT, Texas
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania GREG PENCE, Indiana
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey STEVE WATKINS, Kansas
DAVID TRONE, Maryland MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
JIM COSTA, California
JUAN VARGAS, California
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
Jason Steinbaum, Staff Director
Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
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Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, and Trade
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey, Chairman
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida, Ranking
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas Member
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota TED S. YOHO, Florida
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan JOHN CURTIS, Utah
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas KEN BUCK, Colorado
JUAN VARGAS, California MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
Alexander Brockwehl, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
Rodriguez, Mr. Hugo, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Bureau of
Western Hemisphere Affairs, U.S. Department of State........... 7
Glenn, Mr. Richard, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Bureau of
International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, U.S.
Department of State............................................ 13
Feinstein, Ms. Barbara, Deputy Assistant Administrator, Bureau
for Latin America and the Caribbean, United States Agency for
International Development...................................... 23
APPENDIX
Hearing Notice................................................... 43
Hearing Minutes.................................................. 45
Hearing Attendance............................................... 46
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN SIRES
Opening statement submitted from Chairman Sires.................. 47
RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Responses to questions submitted for the record from Chairman
Sires.......................................................... 50
Responses to questions submitted for the record from
Representative Castro.......................................... 86
ASSESSING U.S. SECURITY ASSISTANCE TO MEXICO
Thursday, February 13, 2020
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,
Civilian Security and Trade,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9 a.m., in
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Albio Sires
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Sires. We are going to get started. The ranking member
is on his way. The reason for the early hearing is we have
votes and people go back to the districts today. So I wanted to
make sure I got this hearing in. So I am going to begin. Other
members will be walking in as the hearing is progressing.
Well, this hearing will come to order. This hearing,
entitled ``Assessing U.S. Security Assistance to Mexico,'' will
focus on evaluating the extent to which U.S. assistance under
the Merida Initiative has been effective in strengthening
Mexico's justice sector institutions, combating crime, and
protecting human rights.
Without objection, all members may have 5 days to submit
statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record,
subject to the length limitation in the rules. I will now make
an opening statement and then turn it over to the ranking
member for his opening statement.
Before I open with my statement, I want to thank everybody
that is here. It is early, it is miserable outside, and I
certainly want to thank the witnesses for being here.
Good morning, everyone, and thank you to our witnesses for
being here today.
In reading the news over the last few weeks, the shocking
headlines from Mexico have been impossible to escape. Last week
I saw that kids as young as 6 years old are arming themselves
to defend their families in a rural part of the Guerrero State.
As cartels have sought to assert control over the area, the
murder rate has doubled and the community has nearly shut down.
Kids, who should be in school learning math and science, are
instead learning how to fire shotguns and ambush armored
vehicles.
As a former teacher, I believe that nothing is more sacred
than the investment we make in our children's future. It broke
my heart to think that these kids are being deprived of their
right to learn and grow free from violence and fear.
And we know that what is happening in Guerrero is just a
microcosm of the broader trends we are seeing across Mexico.
Mexico's homicide rate has reached its highest level in
decades. Targeted attacks against journalists, human rights
defenders, and local public officials have continued at rates
higher than almost anywhere in the world.
A recent report from the International Federation For
Journalists found that Mexico is the deadliest country in the
world for journalists. Of the 49 journalist killings it
documented in 2019, ten were in Mexico. Most journalist
murders, like most homicides in Mexico, are never solved.
I have long advocated for robust U.S. assistance to help
Mexico strengthen its democratic institutions, combat
corruption, defend human rights, and improve security. I
believe that Mexico and the United States have a shared
responsibility to reduce violent crime and improve quality of
life for those living on both sides of our border.
The United States must enact stricter gun laws, dedicate
more resources to combating money laundering by the cartels,
and increase investment in programs to reduce domestic demand
for illegal drugs.
But we also expect a sincere commitment on the Mexican side
to reducing this violence. I appreciate the efforts that
Mexico's security forces are making, but they are being
outgunned by these brazen and well-resourced cartels.
A Mexican civil society organization called Common Cause
released a report this week showing that 953 police officers
have been murdered in Mexico in just the past 2 years. I admire
those courageous individuals who are putting their lives on the
line, but it is clear that substantial political commitment is
needed to address the underlying problem of impunity and
corruption which are perpetuating the violence in Mexico.
Now is the time for the U.S. Government to look critically
at our assistance programs to determine what is working and
what is not. I am eager to hear from the State Department and
USAID about our strategy and how Congress can measure tangible
progress under the Merida Initiative. I sincerely hope that the
Trump Administration is prioritizing security in our engagement
with Mexico rather than pressuring Mexico to use the National
Guard to prevent desperate people from migrating.
I know that many of my colleagues share my frustration that
we have not made more progress under the Merida Initiative. I
hope that this hearing will help us develop a clearer sense of
what next steps we should take.
I look forward to working with my colleagues and with the
executive branch on a bipartisan basis to explore solutions to
these difficult challenges.
Thank you.
And I now turn it over to Ranking Member Rooney for his
opening statement.
Mr. Rooney. Thank you, Chairman Sires, for holding a second
hearing to followup on this very important and timely issue
regarding the security situation in Mexico.
The relationship with Mexico is among the most
strategically important relationships for the United States. We
are linked by geographic proximity, as well as economic,
historical, and cultural ties, and the events occurring in
Mexico directly impact our country.
Recent years have brought widespread violence, criminality,
and a deteriorating security condition in Mexico, which has
been largely driven by the drug cartels. You cannot ignore the
fact that the paper today had the article about the children in
Guerrero.
So cooperation is a critical component of our relationship
with Mexico, and it is important that we review security
conditions there and our assistance programs to identify what
has been most effective and what has been ineffective in
assisting the country to address its security challenges.
I am concerned that recent events in Mexico have resulted
in the deaths of nine U.S. citizens, including three children,
at the hands of the Mexican drug cartels. These events reflect
the continued security challenges which Mexico faces and the
need for both the United States and Mexico to take steps
together to address them. Through intimidation, extortion,
corruption, and pervasive violence, the Mexican people are
terrorized daily.
The Lopez Obrador administration is taking steps to have a
newly created Mexican National Guard take the lead on security.
This force has also supported some immigration enforcement.
Much work remains to properly train and equip them, and
questions remain about other steps the Mexican Government can
take to address thesecurity challenges.
Despite the efforts of previous Mexican administrations to
combat the cartels and address security, 2019 saw a 30 percent
increase in Mexico's homicide rate, much of which driven by
these drug-related crimes. Further, the cartels have expanded
their drug trade to supply the surge in U.S. demand for
methamphetamine, heroin, and synthetic opioids. I suggest
anyone interested in this topic read the book ``Dreamland''
about the Nayarit drug gangs.
We must also acknowledge the flow of illegal weapons from
the United States to Mexico, especially assault weapons and
high powered weapons, which contribute materially to the
violence, along with the systemic corruption, impunity, and
lack of rule of law.
Since 2007 under the Merida Initiative, the United States
has provided roughly $3 billion in security assistance to
Mexico. Mexico, of course, has also contributed much more.
From 2014 to 2018, U.S. security assistance has focused on
the rule of law, anticorruption, and human rights in Mexico.
The Trump Administration has added focus on attacking the
financing of the cartels and combating the increased trade in
opioids and synthetic drugs, which I think is a positive step.
Yet the United States and Mexico must continue to work
together to improve existing security infrastructure and ensure
that regional security priorities are addressed. It is also
critical that the Mexican Government communicate to us what
they are doing to address the problem and present a
comprehensive security strategy that U.S. assistance can
support.
For its part, the United States should explore ways to
modernize the security assistance provided under Merida, and we
need continued intelligence sharing, capacity building, and the
provision of technology and equipment. We should also review
our coordination on the border about security where we can
support Mexico's efforts to carry out inspections and
screenings.
The U.S.-Mexico security relationship has come a long way,
but we must continue to build our relationship on a foundation
of mutual trust and cooperation. This is a joint responsibility
and serves the interests of both countries to do so.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, our career foreign
service officers, for being here today, and I look forward to
hearing the testimony.
Mr. Sires. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ranking Member
Rooney.
I will now introduce Mr. Hugo Rodriguez, Deputy Assistant
Secretary of State in the Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs.
Mr. Rodriguez, is a career foreign service officer who most
recently served as deputy chief of mission in Paraguay. He
previously served as the consul general at the U.S. Embassy in
Mexico City and later as the mission's acting minister
counselor for consular affairs.
Mr. Rodriguez, we welcome you to the hearing.
We will then hear from Mr. Richard Glenn, deputy assistant
secretary of State in the Bureau of International Narcotics and
Law Enforcement Affairs. In his current role, Mr. Glenn
oversees the Office of Anti-Crime Programs and Western
Hemisphere Programs. He began his work with the INL in 2011 as
deputy director of the Merida Initiative in Mexico City and has
also served in Ecuador and Argentina.
Mr. Glenn, thank you for joining us today. Welcome.
Finally, we will hear from Ms. Barbara Feinstein, Deputy
Assistant Adminstrator in USAID's Bureau for Latin America and
the Caribbean. Ms. Feinstein oversees USAID programs in Mexico,
Central America, and the Caribbean. A career member of the
Senior Executive Service, she was previously Deputy Assistant
Adminstrator for Legislative and Public Affairs and served as
the Deputy Chief of Staff to Administrator Rajiv Shah and Chief
of Staff to Acting Administrator Alonzo Fulgham.
Ms. Feinstein, thank you for joining us today.
I ask that the witnesses please limit your testimony to 5
minutes, and, without objection, your prepared statements will
be made as part of the record.
Mr. Rodriguez, we recognize you first for your testimony.
STATEMENT OF MR. HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY,
BUREAU OF WESTERN HEMISPHERE AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Mr. Rodriguez. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Rooney,
distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you today to discuss U.S.
bilateral security cooperation with Mexico. I must also thank
the U.S. Congress, and this committee in particular, for its
consistent, bipartisan, strong support of the U.S.-Mexico
relationship in general and the Merida Initiative in
particular.
While our bilateral agenda in Mexico covers a wide array of
issues, including trade and commercial relationships, illegal
immigration, educational exchanges, and efforts to create a
more competitive partnership in a globalized world, security
cooperation has always been the central element of that agenda.
The United States and Mexico are essential partners in
confronting the transnational criminal organizations operating
on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border. These TCOs and their
subsidiaries have engaged in unprecedented levels of violence
and pose a fundamental challenge to Mexico and its people. They
are also a major threat to the United States.
We must take a comprehensive approach to attack these TCOs,
including the targeting of their business model, from
production and trafficking of illicit drugs to their illicit
finances and revenue. This is critical for the safety of all of
our citizens.
The necessity of our cooperation has been made even clearer
over the past few months with the horrific murders of nine
American citizens on November 4, 2019, in Bavispe, Sonora, and
the failed operation to arrest Ovidio Guzman in Culiacan in
October 2019. These events are in addition to the many lives of
Mexican security forces and citizens that continue to be lost
in the fight against TCOs.
The Trump administration is committed to working with
Mexico to combat these organizations. In just the last month,
Attorney General Barr, Director of the National Drug Control
Policy Office Carroll, U.S. Customs and Border Protection
Deputy Commissioner Perez, and Acting Assistant Secretary of
State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Kozak have all separately
visited Mexico to discuss our joint efforts and the ways we can
increase our collaboration to more effectively confront this
threat.
Transnational criminal organizations traffic Mexican
heroin, methamphetamine, fentanyl, and Colombian cocaine to the
United States. To address these and related threats, the United
States and Mexico partner through the Merida Initiative to
support Mexico's efforts to improve security, reduce drug
production and trafficking, enhanced criminal prosecutions and
the rule of law, build public confidence in the justice sector,
improve border security, reduce irregular migration flow, and
promote greater respect for human rights.
U.S.-Mexico security cooperation has been expanding and
evolving since the Merida Initiative was launched in 2008 and
is based on the recognition and commitment that our countries
share responsibility for combating transnational criminal
networks and protecting our citizens from the crime,
corruption, and violence they generate. The Merida Initiative
is founded on mutual respect and reflects our understanding of
the tremendous benefits derived from collaboration.
U.S. assistance has provided crucial support to the Mexican
Government in its efforts to build the capacity of its rule of
law institutions while enhancing cooperation between the U.S.
and Mexican Governments through the provision of equipment,
technical assistance, and training. The Merida Initiative also
enables greater cooperation between U.S. and Mexican law
enforcement agencies, prosecutors, and judges as they share
best practices and expand their shared capacity to track
criminals, drugs, arms, and money.
President Lopez Obrador has made the reduction of violence
the key goal of his security policy and has pledged to fight
corruption in Mexico. To advance efforts to combat our shared
security challenges, the United States and Mexico have
developed a new bilateral structure, the Mexico City-based
High-Level Security Working Group.
Under the umbrella of the HLSWG, we have jointly developed
bilateral working groups to tackle issues of the highest
importance. These working groups focus on drug policy,
migration, illicit finance, cybersecurity, armed forces,
emergency response, justice sector, and arms trafficking.
Through these groups, we are identifying priorities and
specific actions we can take together to make progress in each
area. For example, we are looking at ways we can increase joint
efforts to combat synthetic drugs and illicit drug production,
increase drug interdictions and TCO prosecutions, and stem
illicit finances. We are also working to reduce the number of
illicit firearms, weapons, and the quantity of ammunitions
crossing the U.S.-Mexico border.
The continued threat posed by transnational criminal
organizations to both Mexico and the United States requires our
continual support. Bilateral cooperation must continue, and the
Merida Initiative provides a comprehensive, flexible framework
through which our partnership can move forward to the benefit
of both Americans and Mexicans.
Let me turn the microphone over to my colleagues, and then
I will be happy to answer any questions you have. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rodriguez follows:]
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Mr. Sires. Mr. Glenn, we will now hear from your testimony.
STATEMENT OF MR. RICHARD GLENN, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY,
BUREAU OF INTERNATIONAL NARCOTICS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AFFAIRS,
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Mr. Glenn. Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Rooney,
distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you today to discuss our efforts
with Mexico.
The mission of the Department of State's Bureau of
International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs is to keep
Americans safe by countering crime, illegal drugs, and
instability abroad. We have provided assistance for the last 12
years under the Merida Initiative to build Mexican
interdiction, law enforcement, and prosecutorial capacity.
Our assistance has two principal purposes: First, to stop
illicit drugs before they reach the United States; and second,
to improve Mexican capacity to dismantle each component of
transnational criminal organizations' business model, from drug
production to trafficking to their illicit proceeds, and hold
them accountable for their crimes.
Despite the news that U.S. drug overdoses are finally on
the decline for the first time in 20 years, more than 67,000
Americans died in 2018 overdosing on drugs, many of which come
from Mexico. Mexico is the source of most heroin and
methamphetamine consumed in the United States and is a major
transit zone for cocaine and synthetic opioids like fentanyl.
Meanwhile, in Mexico, Mexicans face their own epidemic, an
epidemic of violence, with the homicide rate hitting a record
high of 29 per 100,000 inhabitants in 2019. Impunity is high,
public trust in police is low, and organized crime erodes
government institutions through corruption.
Meanwhile, the Mexican Government continues to consolidate
its transition to the accusatorial justice system, with some
progress but major growing pains.
In the face of these challenges, the Merida Initiative has
better positioned U.S.-Mexico security cooperation to confront
the evolving drug threat, tackle corruption and security, and
build trust between U.S. and Mexican law enforcement. INL has
learned, and we have adapted our programs to meet the changing
environment, tackle priority issues for changing U.S. and
Mexican administrations, and prioritize sustainability and
measurable impact.
Where there is sustained Mexican political will, we have
seen our investments bear fruit. One example, the more than 400
K-9s donated since 2011 have helped to interdict over 23 tons
of narcotics. It includes fentanyl, it includes more than
56,000 guns, and millions of dollars in smuggled cash.
We have since expanded the K-9 program to State police and
corrections partners, and our next step is working closely with
Mexico to develop a strategic plan for the deployment of K-9s
to targeted locations to increase seizures and save more lives.
We have learned that no amount of equipment or training can
reduce impunity absent sustainable institutional improvements.
This requires continued political will, resources, and urgency
to tackle today's immediate problems while laying the
foundation for an enduring culture of lawfulness and
accountability.
We are under no illusion that we have substantively reduced
the number of drugs entering the United States or the level of
violence in Mexico. We have a long road ahead. Yet U.S.
investments, when fully embraced and leveraged by Mexico, yield
improvements that can add up over time. We seek opportunities
to make the greatest impact for our investment while mitigating
risk and ensuring sustainability.
On the campaign trail and throughout his first year in
office, Mexican President Lopez Obrador has repeatedly vowed to
take aim at transnational criminal organizations by combating
illicit finance, corruption, and arms trafficking. With
Mexico's explicit commitment, we have an opportunity to more
effectively tackle our shared threat.
Mexican political will must be backed by action and
resources, and those will only make a measurable difference if
they are deployed in a strategic manner with identified
targets. We welcome the recent actions by the Government of
Mexico in the wake of the visit by Attorney General Barr and
look to build on this momentum.
INL is well-positioned to bolster Mexican capacity to
tackle our shared threats, but our assistance is only effective
when tailored to complement Mexico's own strategic efforts.
INL continues our important work in Mexico at a difficult
time that calls for urgency. I will be the first to acknowledge
the current statistics make it hard to argue we are making
headway. Nonetheless, these sobering numbers are exactly why we
must continue to work closely with Mexico.
We engage at every level to ensure our programs are matched
with committed partners in the Mexican Government and we
encourage Mexico to take a strategic approach to our shared
challenges, and we will continue to do so, for the enduring and
significant change we seek requires nothing less.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Glenn follows:]
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Mr. Sires.Thank you.
Ms. Feinstein.
STATEMENT OF MS. BARBARA FEINSTEIN, DEPUTY ASSISTANT
ADMINISTRATOR, BUREAU FOR LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN,
UNITED STATES AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
Ms. Feinstein.Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Rooney,
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to
discuss USAID's work in Mexico under the Merida Initiative.
Since 2008, USAID has partnered with the Department of
State and other U.S. agencies to address the crime, justice,
and corruption challenges that undermine Mexico's stability and
threaten our mutual security and prosperity.
Under the Merida Initiative, USAID works to strengthen
justice institutions, address corruption and impunity, protect
human rights, reduce crime and violence, and build
transparency.
Undoubtedly, as you and as my colleagues have clearly
articulated, the challenges before us are both enormous and
daunting. And that is why USAID is clear-eyed and laser-focused
on those areas where we have credible partners willing to work
with us, who exhibit the necessary political will to enact
systemic change.
And as I have outlined in my written testimony, we are
seeing tangible results in each of the areas in which we work,
results that we will continue to press the Federal, State, and
local governments to replicate.
On rule of law, we are supporting the Mexican Government to
carry out a seismic shift in its judicial system, moving from a
presumption of guilt to a presumption of innocence. Working
primarily at the state level, where the vast majority of crimes
are tried, we are providing demand-driven support to
prosecutors, judges, investigators, and defense attorneys to
implement protocols and procedures to build more effective
cases and secure prosecutions.
This is a long-term endeavor, but we are seeing progress.
In the States of Chihuahua, Coahuila, Zacatecas, Nayarit, and
Tabasco, our work has helped to increase prosecutions of felony
crimes by 400 to over 700 percent. And in a similar set of
states, our support to specialized homicide units has increased
the number of indictments for homicides by 47 percent.
So why is this significant? Because it provides evidence of
what can be done when sufficient political will, resources, and
capacity are marshaled toward a set of shared outcomes.
The systems we are putting in place at state levels will be
the foundations on which the entire justice system will grow
and function, and for that reason, USAID is intentionally
focusing and concentrating our programs under Merida in 13
specific states where we see unique promise and partnership.
And we are applying those same principles to our work in
anticorruption and crime and violence prevention.
With regard to Mexico's national anticorruption system, we
have purposefully shifted our resources to supporting state-
level special anticorruption prosecutors and civil society.
And we are seeing tangible results here as well. In
Coahuila, USAID support to the Special Prosecutor for
Anticorruption resulted in a 267 percent increase in the number
of investigations closed. And in Jalisco, our support led to
charges being filed in connection with 10 criminal
organizations, a 400 percent increase over the baseline.
With regards to crime and violence prevention, USAID has
also sharpened our geographic focus. We are working in 10 of
the Government of Mexico's 27 priority cities for reducing
violence where we see evidence of political will, a pledge to
invest their own resources, and a commitment to using data and
evidence to inform crime and violence prevention.
And here we are also seeing encouraging impact. The
recidivism rate for incarcerated or paroled youth USAID works
with is just above 3 percent, compared to the national rate of
60 percent.
Finally, with regard to human rights, and specifically the
untenable levels of violence perpetrated against human rights
defenders, journalists, and others, USAID is partnering with
the Government of Mexico to improve its ability to prevent,
investigate, and prosecute human rights abuses while also
strengthening civil society to hold the government accountable.
USAID supports Mexico's National Protection Mechanism,
which provides protective measures to more than 1,162
journalists and human rights defenders.
We are also helping to reduce the backlog of unsolved
disappearances and to bring closure to criminal cases. USAID is
supporting experts to identify the remains of victims and build
forensic evidence for prosecution against the perpetrators.
And on that note, we are very encouraged by the Mexican
Government's recent announcement of an Extraordinary Mechanism
for Forensic Identification to deal with the disappearance
crisis and look forward to expanded cooperation in this space.
In conclusion, against an extraordinarily challenging
landscape, we are seeing signs of progress that can be scaled
up and replicated, provided the political will and sufficient
resources exist to do so.
Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Rooney, members of the
subcommittee, thank you again for the invitation to testify. I
look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Feinstein follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Sires. Thank you, and we will now turn to questions.
I will start it by asking, as I mentioned in my opening
remarks, I was taken aback to read that children are forming
armed groups to defend the community in Guerrero.
Ms. Feinstein, Mr. Rodriguez, Mr. Glenn, can you provide
examples of U.S. programs that have been effective in reducing
violence and weakening the cartels at the local level, both in
urban and rural communities?
Mr. Glenn, we will start with you, put you in the hot seat
first.
Mr. Glenn. The Merida Initiative programs, in terms of
rural communities, have focused primarily on increasing the
ability of police to do their jobs at both the Federal and the
State level. We have generally avoided local police for various
reasons.
The professionalization of the police is essential. Taking
them from basically no or very little academy support and
academy training at the beginning to now more professionalized
policing ensures that they, at least at the beginning, have
that kind of support and know-how to do their jobs.
Obviously, there is a lot more to do. The transition now
with the Federal police turning into the National Guard, along
with pieces of both the Marines and the Army, it is going to be
key that they take on that training and deploy into those
regions. And I think, as far as we understand the purpose of
the National Guard, it is to get out into those rural areas and
help secure those communities that desperately seek that peace
and stability.
Mr. Sires. Ms. Feinstein.
Ms. Feinstein. From USAID's perspective, as I mentioned in
my testimony, we are focused on targeted municipalities that
have the highest levels of violence, including ones that the
Government of Mexico has specifically targeted. And our
approach is to look at where we have partners that are willing
to invest their own resources and where we see that political
will.
We are employing a variety of approaches to crime and
violence prevention. In certain municipalities we have a model
called Civic Justice. It is similar to community courts that
exist in the United States, for example, where we will look at
misdemeanors, for example. And for youth that are committing
these crimes, we know through evidence that that can often be
escalated and lead to more sophisticated levels of crimes.
If we can address that, build confidence in the system, and
strengthen the social fabric between the community, between
local law enforcement, the municipal government, and the
justice system, then we think we can pave a foundation for
stronger rule of law at the local level.
We are also not working in rural areas. In addition, as I
referenced in my testimony, we are working with youth who are
already in conflict with the law. Those are youth who have been
in prison and/or on parole. And that is where, as I have said,
through techniques such as cognitive behavioral therapy, family
counseling, working with youth before they exit prison to have
a more successful reintegration into society, we are seeing
very striking levels of lower levels of recidivism, around 3
percent compared to the 60 percent national average.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Would you like to add something, Mr. Rodriguez?
Mr. Rodriguez. I will defer to my colleagues who can speak
more knowledgeably to the programs themselves, sir.
Mr. Sires. Last year 21 human rights defenders and 10
journalists were killed. In 2012, the Mexican Government
created the mechanism to protect human right defenders and
journalists. But since August 2017 at least six beneficiaries
have been murdered.
What needs to be done for the killing of journalists and
human rights defenders to actually be investigated and
prosecuted?
Mr. Rodriguez.
Mr. Rodriguez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
You point to one of the biggest crises that we believe
faces Mexico, both upholding the standards of human rights as
well as the protection of journalists. This is something that
we have raised frequently with the Government of Mexico. My
belief is that they share that concern.
I can defer to Rich and to Barbara about the programs we
have in place that are helping to strengthen those efforts. But
I would say that both for us and for the Government of Mexico,
this is a priority. And we have seen them take steps to address
both the protection of journalists and human rights in general.
Mr. Sires. Mr. Glenn.
Mr. Glenn. I will defer to Barbara on the specifics on
programs that specifically focus on journalists and human
rights defenders.
In general, our efforts with both State-level and Federal-
level attorneys general and the investigative branches of law
enforcement are to focus on increasing their ability to collect
forensic evidence so that they can produce prosecutions. So
that does not prevent the aggression against journalists, but
when it does happen, it ensures that the Mexican Government can
get justice.
Ms. Feinstein. And briefly, I would add that from USAID's
perspective, we are working on this issue on a number of
different fronts.
One is, we are providing technical assistance and support
to the National Protection Mechanism, as I mentioned earlier,
that provides actual protective measures, from panic buttons to
residential security upgrades to protection teams for
journalists, and we are connecting journalists to that
mechanism so that they can take advantage of those services as
they exist.
In addition, on a more structural and fundamental level, we
are also providing support to the Special Prosecutor's Office
for Crimes Against Freedom of Expression so that they can
strengthen their protocols, strengthen investigations, to be
able to go after the perpetrators who are so viciously going
after journalists.
And then last, we do also provide direct support to
journalists in terms of assistance with digital security, how
they can protect themselves online, what methods they can take
to be more secure.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Congressman Rooney.
Mr. Rooney. Thank you, Chairman Sires.
I would like to start with Ms. Feinstein. I have two basic
questions.
One is, can you give us a little more specifics about how
the AID programs have involved under the Merida Initiative and
about our participation versus Mexico's?
And then what judicial reforms do we need to execute in
Mexico to increase convictions and prevent the prolonged legal
proceedings of the cartel members?
Thank you.
Ms. Feinstein. Thank you for that question.
In terms of the evolution of our programming, at the
beginning of the Merida Initiative, as we have talked about,
Mexico has embarked on this seismic shift to transform their
judicial system from one with a presumption of guilt to a
presumption of innocence.
And so while all of that has been on paper and USAID has
worked very hard, with the Mexican Government very much in the
lead to try to ensure that implementing legislation has been in
place in each of the states to carry out that reform, that is
obviously the easiest part because now you have the laws on the
books.
But in terms of the cultural change that is actually
required to get all the individual actors in that system,
including those who had been part of the old system, to go from
a system where your judge is the same as your prosecutor to a
system where, in fact, you have to go and make the tough
decisions about which cases you are actually going to
prioritize and then build those cases, work on forensics, as my
colleague mentioned, and try to build the strongest evidence
that you can to achieve those convictions_the issue, as we see
it, is a structural and a systemic one.
It is not necessarily judicial reforms that are needed at
this point--obviously, there could be some tweaks here and
there--but it is reform of a system which requires the actors
that are in that system to work together.
So in terms of the evolution of our approach and what we
have done differently, in the rule of law space, whereas in the
beginning, as I said, our work was mostly focused on helping at
the state level to ensure the implementing legislation was in
place, the next stage for us was classroom training for all of
the individuals. So that is judges, defense attorneys,
prosecutors, investigators, et cetera.
And we have realized that classroom training, while
helpful, was not enough. What we needed to do was actually
accompany, provide targeted assistance to actually bring these
actors together.
And the examples that I mentioned earlier in terms of the
increases in prosecutions were a result of a very deliberate
effort to bring all of those actors around the table.
There is a tradition in Mexico in the judicial system where
one part of it sends a letter to the other part of it, they are
in receipt of the letter, and 1 month later maybe they will
respond, as opposed to just picking up the telephone or being
collocated--for example, prosecutors and investigators--to
build more effective cases and move them through the system.
So one thing, as I said, has been moving from that
classroom training to hands-on technical assistance.
Within the crime and violence space we have had an
evolution where at the beginning there might have been a
thought, ``okay, let's go to the violent areas and provide
opportunity to underprivileged communities and that will
probably reduce violence."
Well, in fact, the evidence shows that that is not a very
successful approach. Instead what you need to do is target more
effectively who are those individuals that are most likely to
be perpetrators of crime or victims of crime, consider those
your at-risk communities, and actually look at the
interventions that work most effectively.
So that might be cognitive behavioral therapy, family based
counseling, a variety of mechanisms, bringing the different
parts together, and that is what we are doing and that is where
we are seeing results.
And on the municipal model we are pleased to see that the
Government of Mexico has taken that civic justice model that I
mentioned before, that we piloted in Escobedo and in Morelia,
they have scaled that up to different parts of the country.
Mr. Rooney. How has the recidivism rate been affected by
those programs of the family counseling and things you are
talking about?
Ms. Feinstein. In the case of our work with at-risk youth,
as I mentioned, we work with youth who are in prison and are
likely to be released some time in the next 5 years. And we
will work with them to give them the kind of training, life
skills, and then once they come out, the vocational education
to better reintegrate into society. And we are seeing
recidivism rates of just over 3 percent as compared to the 60
percent national rate.
Mr. Rooney. That is really great to hear.
One last quick thing. What is the contribution of the
United States versus Mexico under the Merida agreement.
Ms. Feinstein. I would not be able to tell you across every
element of it. I do not know if my colleagues have that
information.
I would say at the local level, in terms of security, on a
regular basis, on an annual basis, USAID's contribution, is
around 40 million, about 37 to 40 million per year. And I know
local security contributions are on the average of about 400
million.
Mr. Rooney. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman Rooney.
Congressman Vargas.
Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Ranking
Member. I apologize for my voice today. It is a bit raspy.
I think most of us here, really all of us here on the dais,
want to see a very successful Mexico. In fact, interestingly,
most of the Congress voted in favor of USMCA and see Mexico not
only as a good neighbor, but obviously as a fellow partner in
trade. However, there obviously are some problems.
Mr. Glenn, you said, I believe, the current statistics make
it hard to say that we are making headway. So I guess my
question would be, should we shift our approach or strategy
under the Merida Initiative? I mean, if the statistics are what
they are, and they are pretty horrific, should we do something
different?
Mr. Glenn. Absolutely, and I think we are. We have learned
from the 12 years of experience that we have. We also have a
new Mexican administration that is focusing on different areas
and we will go along, as far as we can, to support those
efforts of the current Mexican administration.
I think the focus on going after the illicit finance in a
larger, greater, more focused way will be a major shift that
will give us the kinds of results that we seek, focus on arms
trafficking and helping the Mexican Government, at least from
our end, from our foreign assistance end of arms trafficking,
helping the Government of Mexico position equipment that we
have donated previously so that they can protect their border
and scan for guns and money coming south.
So shifting those kinds of resources and that kind of focus
can help change the way that we focus the Merida Initiative
resources that we have.
Mr. Vargas. Okay. One of the concerns I have is one of the
shifts that we have seen also is the creation of this National
Guard where, I believe, 25,000 of them now are being used to
prevent Central American migration. I mean, that concerns me. I
thought that they were supposed to be out there interdicting
drugs and doing all these other things against the narco-
traffickers, not against Central American migrants.
I do want to ask you also about MPP or the Migrant
Protection Program or what we normally call the Remain in
Mexico. Fifty-nine thousand migrants have been returned to
Mexico, and as of December 31, 2019, there are at least
reports, public reports, that 816 of these migrants have become
victims of violent crimes, such as rape, kidnapping, and
torture, after being attacked and returned to Mexico.
Now, that does not seem to me then it is very safe to
return to Mexico when we see the statistics. Why are we
continuing with this?
Mr. Rodriguez.
Mr. Rodriguez. Thank you, Congressman.
You raise an excellent point. The levels of violence in
Mexico are of great concern to us, as is the violence that
migrants face along the entire route of the journey. And one of
our efforts has been to share responsibility, to look for
partners to help us in addressing the irregular migration and
helping to build capacity, particularly in Central America at
this point, for offering asylum and offering support closer to
the home, closer to the point of departure of these migrants so
that they do not have to undertake the dangerous journey,
including the dangerous conditions in Mexico.
The Government of Mexico has owned the concerns that we
have about the levels of violence, particularly in the northern
tier of Mexico. They have committed to us to provide the same
protections to the migrants as they do to their citizens, and
to U.S. citizens that are traveling in the area as well.
Mr. Vargas. But I guess that is my point. I mean, the
statistics do not prove out that it is safe for their own
citizens.
I mean, Tijuana. I live in San Diego, one of the safest,
largest cities in the United States. Across the border in
Tijuana, they have the murder capital of the world. And yet a
lot of the migrants that are sent to Tijuana, they are not from
Tijuana, experience this incredible level of violence against
them.
I mean, when you say they are returned and they are going
to provide safety as they do for their own citizens, well, it
is not safe. That is the whole point.
Mr. Rodriguez. I agree with you, sir. The levels of
violence are of tremendous concern. And I think the Government
of Mexico shares that concern and is appropriately focused on
it.
But this is a large-scale problem. We assist through the
Merida Initiative in the ways that we can. But, again, my
understanding from the Government of Mexico is that they
understand the problem and are focused on it.
Mr. Vargas. My time has expired.
The only thing I would like to add is, I am not sure about
this ``hugs'' thing either. The new President says ``hugs
instead of bullets.'' I am not sure that is going to work.
Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
Congressman Yoho.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I appreciate you all being here. And I want to thank you
for the work that you and your agencies do, because I know you
do it with a good intention and you put forth everything and
the teams that are with you. But yet this is my eighth year in
Congress and I hear the same thing over and over, again, good
governance, we are working on rule of law, going after--
increasing the judicial system and all that, but yet we are not
seeing it.
And, Mr. Glenn, you brought that up. I think you said under
no illusion that we have decreased the drug trafficking and
flow, I think is what you were saying. And we know that. We
know there is more drugs coming in.
I want to look--I like to look at things as, what is the
solution? How do we change this?
Ms. Feinstein, you were talking about there was 3 percent
recidivism versus the 60 percent in the programs. How long have
you tracked that? Is that within a year? Is that a 5-year
period or a 10-year period, that 3 percent? And do they stay
reformed and not go back into illicit activities?
Ms. Feinstein. Sir, I can get you the specifics on that,
but my understanding is that it is a multi-year effort, that we
are not just tracking people when they come out, because
clearly that wouldn't be a good indication of whether
recidivism is actually taking place.
Mr. Yoho. No. That would be a skewed number and that is
what we do not want reported. So I do not know, is there a
report out there that will say this is a 3 percent recidivism
after 6 months, after a year, after 5 years?
Ms. Feinstein. Absolutely. I can get that for you.
Mr. Yoho. If you could get that, that would help us,
because that gives us the programs that are working that we can
bolster.
You were also saying that a 40 percent increase in
convictions, and I forget what area it was, Chihuahua or
somewhere, but you were saying that the 40 percent increase in
sentencing or conviction. What about the sentencing and the
reform side of that? Or do they get pardoned or get early
release? Do we know what happens? Because you can go ahead and
convict them, but what happens after that? Do you have any
idea?
Ms. Feinstein. Certainly. The specifics that I was
mentioning for the 47 percent was our support to specialized
homicide units, and that is in a series of states I can read to
you or not, where we have increased the number of indictments.
So that was indictments for homicide.
My other statistic was in terms of prosecutions of felony
crimes. In terms of prosecutions, there are obviously a variety
of ways that that could be resolved. It could result in
incarceration, it could result in alternative dispute
resolution, plea bargaining. So a variety of different methods.
I think the challenge with the Mexican judicial sector is
that under this new system, as you, I am sure, are aware, in
any criminal justice system, whether in our system or any
system around the world, criminal justice systems only have the
capacity to process about 10 percent of the crimes that are
coming in.
So you have to make strategic decisions about how you are
going to prioritize. You could have a prosecutor that goes
after the easiest crimes and then kind of juices their rate.
Mr. Yoho. Well, that is the stuff we need to look at.
Ms. Feinstein. What we are trying to do is look at the most
serious crimes. So in this case, taking all these different
elements, bringing them together, and asking, what is it that
would really make a difference for the community, for people in
Mexico? Looking at serious crimes like homicides, like home
invasions, armed robberies, et cetera, not the easy ones.
And then look for--and for us it is not a sign--this has
been a cultural change issue also in Mexico where people want
to see folks behind bars and not necessarily look at plea
bargains and other issues.
Mr. Yoho. All right. I appreciate it.
Mr. Glenn, you were talking about you do not work with the
local law enforcement for obvious reasons. I want you to state
what those obvious reasons are.
Mr. Glenn. I think it is recognized by the Mexican
Government itself that the level of corruption at the local
level is very high.
Mr. Yoho. OK, and we know that, and I just want that on
record, because we have put so much money into these programs,
but yet the results are not there.
I want to switch over to another question. The GAO reports
show that 70 percent of the guns seized in Mexico by Mexican
authorities come from America.
Do we track that to find out who they came from here in
America? And if so, what do we do? Do we have extradition laws
that allow that person to go to Mexico if those guns were
involved in a crime?
Mr. Rodriguez. So we do work closely with the Government of
Mexico to track those guns. ATF is present at the U.S. Embassy
in Mexico City. And in the cases where we have tracking
information where there are serial numbers on the guns, there
is cooperation to share that with U.S. law enforcement so that
we can track back----
Mr. Yoho. Have we sent our people down there that have
been----
Mr. Rodriguez. We have U.S. law enforcement officials in
Mexico.
Mr. Yoho. No. The person that broke the law here selling
the guns, have we sent them to Mexican prisons or their
judicial system?
Mr. Rodriguez. I would have to check with DOJ on specific
cases. I cannot recall off the top of my head cases, but that
does not mean----
Mr. Yoho. Would that be a strong deterrent if we did?
Mr. Rodriguez. I would assume it would be a very strong
deterrent, yes, sir.
Mr. Yoho. I think so.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
Congressman Dean Phillips.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member
Rooney, and to our witnesses.
We had a similar hearing about a month ago relative to aid
to Mexico and, not surprisingly, corruption took center stage.
So I would like to begin with a question to you, Mr. Glenn,
and you, Ms. Feinstein, about how corruption very specifically
impacts your work, starting with you, Mr. Glenn. And if you can
be specific about corruption, not general.
Mr. Glenn. So our focus is on improving law enforcement.
Our anticorruption efforts in the past and going forward as
well, and our focus will be on how do we eliminate or how do we
help the Mexican Government eliminate corruption within their
public security forces.
Mr. Phillips. But can you talk about that? I want to hear
specifically about that corruption in those security forces.
Mr. Glenn. Sure. I think we have, at least, the alleged
conduct of the former head of the Federal Police, Garcia Luna,
who was arrested recently, I believe in Dallas. He was, at the
time that I was in Mexico, one of our principal interlocutors.
So obviously that shakes the trust that we have. In order
to do the work that we do, we have to work with those who the
Government of Mexico has in place. We do our best to vet, not
only do we do the Leahy vetting that is on the human rights
side, but we also do the internal vetting to make sure that, to
the best of our knowledge, our partners are with us and not
against us.
Mr. Phillips. And if we uncover troubling information, do
they act on it, our Mexican partners?
Mr. Glenn. To the extent that I know, yes.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Rodriguez. If I could just jump in?
Mr. Phillips. Sure, Mr. Rodriguez.
Mr. Rodriguez. I know that Mexico has created an
independent Federal prosecutor for corruption crimes, and they
have moved to remove immunity from elected officials who engage
in corruption, and they established the National Anti-
corruption System.
President Lopez Obrador ran on a platform of targeting and
prosecuting corrupt officials. We learned yesterday that the
former head of Pemex was arrested in Spain based on a request
by the Government of Mexico for alleged corruption involving
Odebrecht. So they are pursuing corruption in both current and
former government officials.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. And, Ms. Feinstein, specifically in
your work, how does corruption affect it?
Ms. Feinstein. Sure. So corruption_anticorruption_is one of
the areas that we have as a focus for our work in Mexico
because of the toll that it takes on the Mexican State at every
level where that is encountered by individuals on a day-to-day
basis, as well as businesses.
For example, corruption is estimated to cost Mexico between
5 to 9 percent of its GDP. So it is obviously an enormous
problem for the private sector and for individuals on a day-to-
day basis.
Complementing what my colleagues have said, one of the
areas of work that USAID engages in is looking at the
procurement process in Mexico, since a lot of the historic
corruption scandals in Mexico have related to government
procurement.
And so what we have done is to provide the tools so that a
spotlight can be shined on where corruption is going on with
regard to sole-source procurement, for example, and have
invested in blockchain analysis of the weaknesses in the
procurement process. And we are working with specific states on
a demand-driven basis to help them look at vulnerabilities in
their procurement systems so that they can make those changes.
Mr. Phillips. I appreciate that. Thank you.
Mr. Rodriguez, another line of questioning here. Russian
Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov recently announced that Mexico
was in talks to purchase Russian-made helicopters. If that were
to proceed, would it risk sanctions by the United States under
Section 231 of the CAATSA act?
Mr. Rodriguez. Thank you, Congressman.
We have looked into that. We obviously saw that read-out of
the meeting between Foreign Minister Lavrov and Foreign
Secretary Ebrard. We read it with great interest, and it is
concerning to us. Based on our initial investigation, it
appears that such a sale would trigger potentially sanctions
under CAATSA. And we do not have further specifics for you this
morning, but I would be happy to give you a fuller read-out on
that when we have it.
Mr. Phillips. Have we made our position clear to our
Mexican friends?
Mr. Rodriguez. I believe we have at the embassy level, and
I will need to check on that to confirm. But at the Washington
level we have raised this as an area of concern with our
counterparts in Mexico City to raise with the Government of
Mexico.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. We would appreciate that information.
Thank you.
Mr. Rodriguez. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Phillips. I yield my time.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
Congressman Ken Buck.
Mr. Buck. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Feinstein, I want to ask you a quick question. You
mentioned different ways that we are trying to protect
journalists. Could you just go through those really quickly
again? I remember a panic button.
By the way, who answers the panic button on the other side?
I hope not the corrupt law enforcement that we just heard about
it.
Ms. Feinstein. This is through the National Protection
Mechanism, which is something that we as USAID helped the
Government of Mexico to establish in the previous----
Mr. Buck. I asked you, who answers it on the other side?
Ms. Feinstein. It is officials associated with the National
Protection Mechanism, which are vetted, vetted police, vetted
law enforcement, who will then redirect that----
Mr. Buck. And have you measured the response time of those
folks?
Ms. Feinstein. We recognize that this is not a foolproof
mechanism. And so if, for example, you are a journalist and
someone is trying to kill you and has, therefore, been in your
presence, no call from a panic button is going to result in law
enforcement coming and bailing you out immediately, which is
why a panic button----
Mr. Buck. Do you know what would? I was in law enforcement
for 25 years and there were a lot of people that did not like
me. Just like being a Congressman, there are a lot of people
that do not like me now. But I did have a gun. Are we training
these folks in the use of firearms?
Ms. Feinstein. Not to the best of my knowledge. I believe--
--
Mr. Buck. Would that be a more efficient--I mean, if it
takes 15 minutes for someone to show up and you have got 20
seconds to react, would that be a more efficient way of or more
effective way of trying to help folks?
Ms. Feinstein. So I would refer you to technical experts on
this. I am not an expert in law enforcement, so you clearly
have more expertise in this area than I do.
What I will say is a panic button is one of a variety of
mechanisms that are provided. We also provide support so that
there are residential security upgrades as necessary,
protection teams, et cetera, so it is not just the panic
button.
And I think, with some exceptions, this has been successful
in terms of protecting journalists and keeping them alive. I
think our hope would be that there are more resources invested
in this mechanism so that it can be expanded to provide greater
protection, which we would prefer not to have to do, but is a
reality in Mexico today.
Mr. Buck. I think someone just handed you a note. They may
have told you whether you guys give them guns or not.
Ms. Feinstein. No. In fact, that was an answer to Mr.
Yoho's question on the recidivism rate----
Mr. Buck. Oh, Okay.
Ms. Feinstein [continuing]. Which we track for 12 to 18
months afterwards.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you.
Mr. Buck. Mr. Rodriguez, I wanted to know about the flow of
drugs across the border and what the Mexican Government is
doing. My understanding is that they have enhanced military or
law enforcement presence along the border. Is that correct?
Mr. Rodriguez. If I could, Congressman, I would like to
pass this to Rich because the programs, the cooperative
programs that we have with the Government of Mexico, really
fall under his area of expertise.
Mr. Glenn. So the interdiction responsibility lies with
multiple agencies within the Government of Mexico. The military
is one of them. The National Guard is increasingly taking on
that role.
Mr. Buck. And I am specifically asking about the border
area. Is there enhanced security--military, law enforcement--on
the border area?
Mr. Glenn. There is enhanced focus on borders, both on the
Mexican southern border as well as Mexico's northern border.
Mr. Buck. And what is happening as a result of that? What
result do we see?
Mr. Glenn. Well, we see increased amounts of seizures. We
see greater success with the equipment that we have donated to
them whether it is hard equipment or the K-9s that I mentioned
earlier. We have also been trying to get them to focus and
cooperate more on ports and the influx or importation of
precursor chemicals.
Mr. Buck. How much money have we given to Mexico in the
last 10 years to assist in this? And why is it that we are
asking them to help with ports? Is there obviously some
incentive for them to help with ports?
Mr. Glenn. Sure.
Mr. Buck. Do they also help with physical barriers along
our southern border, their northern border?
Mr. Glenn. Yes. Let me touch first on the amount of money
that we have spent over the last 10, 12 years specifically on
border security, and that can be ports, both sea ports and land
ports. We have spent about $200 million on equipment and
training. So that is nonintrusive inspection equipment, and K-
9s.
Mr. Buck. I am wondering about Mexico. How much money do
they spend? Are they paying for a wall, I guess is this the
question?
Mr. Glenn. Are they paying for a wall? A physical wall? Not
that I know of. But in terms of personnel dedicated to
screening and protecting both--well, to protecting the border,
yes, they have deployed. I do not know a specific number on how
much money they have spent.
Mr. Buck. I yield back.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
Congressman Joaquin Castro.
Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairman.
Under the Migrant Protection Protocols, thousands of
vulnerable people--asylum seekers--are forced to live in
dangerous conditions in Mexico due to the Trump
Administration's policies as they await their asylum claims. I
recently, along with 16 other Members of Congress, visited the
border and I saw firsthand the conditions of disarray and fear
and came away believing that it is an inhumane situation that
we are placing these folks in.
Mexican border towns have become incredibly dangerous, and
migrants have become victims of violate crime, including
kidnapping, robbery, and rape, as they languish at the border.
So my question for you all is, do you know how many
individuals are currently in Mexico under the Trump
Administration's remain in Mexico policy awaiting adjudication
of their asylum claims?
Mr. Rodriguez. Congressman Castro, I do not know that I
have that number right in front of me, but if you will permit
me, I would be happy to get that number back to you, if I could
take that.
Mr. Castro. OK. Do you believe that these people along the
border are actually safe in that environment?
Mr. Rodriguez. Safe is--well, let me put it this way. We
and the Government of Mexico are working to increase their
safety.
So our Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration works
with international organizations, such as UNHCR and IOM, to
provide support to migrants under the MPP program.
And to that extent, we are working directly to try to
provide support and safety to those individuals, as well as
encouraging and working with the Government of Mexico to
provide support and safety to those individuals as well.
Mr. Castro. The State Department acknowledges that some of
those Mexican cities are cities that the State Department has
advised Americans not to travel to?
Mr. Rodriguez. Yes, sir.
Mr. Castro. Because of the danger of those cities?
Mr. Rodriguez. Yes, sir.
Mr. Castro. What steps are the State Department and USAID
taking to protect these people as they pursue their asylum
claims?
Mr. Rodriguez. I will let Barbara talk about USAID, and I
will only add that my understanding from DHS colleagues is that
the period of time that these individuals are waiting in Mexico
for their asylum hearings and the processing is meant to be as
expedited as possible.
Mr. Castro. And I guess, based on what we heard from folks
the other day, it is quite the opposite, which is courts in the
United States are bringing these folks in for court dates and
then setting a reset court date 3 or 4 months later, basically
hoping that people will either stay in Mexico or just go away.
So the folks that do remain there are being subject to these
very dangerous conditions, threatening conditions.
But I have got just about a minute and 40 seconds left--
unless you wanted to say something about USAID.
Ms. Feinstein. No, just to mention that this is actually
not within USAID's mandate in Mexico. It is, as DAS Rodriguez
mentioned, with the Population, Refugees, and Migration Bureau
of the State Department. So we are not engaging in that area of
work.
Mr. Castro. I mean, it sounds like this is more in the
wheelhouse of USAID than some of the work that you have been
describing for the last hour.
Ms. Feinstein. So specifically in terms of how the U.S.
Government handles migration, that is primarily within PRM,
within the State Department, and so the work on asylum
strengthening, for example, is not something that USAID engages
in. That is something that PRM does.
Mr. Castro. You talked about the reform of Mexico's legal
system or justice system. Do they have a public defender system
or indigent defense system there?
Ms. Feinstein. They do. And through our work, we work with
public defenders, with the defense attorneys, at the state-
level primarily.
Mr. Castro. And how extensive is that system now? Is it
nationwide?
Ms. Feinstein. Yes. It was part of the judicial reform
law--or whole change to the justice system in terms of
presumption of innocence rather than presumption of guilt, and
that has now been implemented in every single state. That being
said, there are some states that are a lot more mature that are
progressing more effectively in that than others.
Mr. Castro. Let me ask you all one last question, which is
there are a lot of fully automatic actually and semi-automatic
weapons that are trafficked to Mexico from the United States.
Does the U.S. Government fund or help Mexico retrieve those
guns, not just track the serial numbers, but actually go get
them?
Mr. Glenn. So under the Merida Initiative we have aided and
assisted the Government of Mexico in the form of primarily
recovering and being able to track weapons, so through serial
number, through the forensics.
ATF is present in the embassy and does work with the
attorney general's office, with State-level attorneys general
offices to retrieve weapons that have been used in the
committing of crimes, to then be able to track them back to the
United States and hopefully find who it is that bought them and
how they have come across the border.
Mr. Castro. Thanks. I yield back.
Mr. Sires. Congressman Vicente Gonzalez.
Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have a few questions. I am certainly concerned about the
trade routes to my district and the violence on those roads.
Being that Mexico last year had, if you consider the confirmed
murders and disappearances, the number exceeds every soldier we
lost during Vietnam, and this is just in 1 year.
Being that the violence is just this extreme, and Mexico
being our No. 1 trading partner, are we having the conversation
that this could potentially be a national security threat if we
have a failed State or portions of the country are failed? And
my opinion, they already are in certain States. Are we having
those conversations with Mexico?
Mr. Rodriguez. Thank you, Congressman Gonzalez.
We do have conversations every day about the security
threats to Mexican citizens and U.S. citizens, and the fact
that this obviously represents a national security concern both
for Mexico and for the U.S. So, yes, sir, we do have those
conversations, we are talking about that.
Mr. Gonzalez. Being that Mexico's homicide rate has
skyrocketed over the past few years, and we have also witnessed
a series of issues of impunity in prosecuting crimes,
especially those committed against American citizens in Mexico,
recently we have had, just in the past few months, I can recall
about 11 deaths of American citizens on Mexican soil.
Are we doing anything to try to extradite those individuals
who are found to be the perpetrators of those crimes?
Mr. Rodriguez. Let me speak specifically to the horrific
murder of nine American citizens in Sonora at the end of 2019.
Mr. Gonzalez. Chihuahua. Wasn't it Chihuahua? The Mormons?
Mr. Rodriguez. It was Bavispe, Sonora, on the border with
Chihuahua.
Mr. Gonzalez. Okay.
Mr. Rodriguez. President Lopez Obrador, in his conversation
with President Trump, agreed to a joint investigation involving
the FBI, and that investigation has been ongoing, and I would
urge you to talk to FBI about where they are with that. So
there are conversations and joint investigations going on
addressing the homicides.
I would also recognize, as you mentioned, that the homicide
rate has been going up. Specifically since 2014, it has gone up
every year. This is a problem that the Lopez Obrador
administration inherited and has been very focused on. It is
going to take a great deal of effort to bend that curve, but
they are working on that.
And I can turn it over to DAS Glenn to talk about some of
the efforts we provide under Merida to help professionalize
investigations and prosecutions.
Mr. Glenn. I could speak specifically quickly to
extraditions and the assistance that we provide through the
Merida Initiative.
Mr. Gonzalez. I am sorry to interrupt, but I want to know
about extraditions on crimes perpetrated against Americans in
Mexico. And I know that we have taken a special interest on
this case, but there are many others, and I am curious if we
have a concerted effort that we are actually trying to go after
folks that harm American citizens in Mexico.
Mr. Rodriguez. Attorney General Barr has traveled twice in
the last 2 months to Mexico to speak with his counterparts
there and to urge a focus on extraditions. The Government of
Mexico has responded in a very fulsome way, and we have seen a
large number of high value extraditions over the course of the
last 3 months, as well as a high volume of fugitives returned
to the U.S. for crimes that occurred in the United States. So,
yes, we are getting a very fulsome response on extraditions.
As far as the underlying grounds for each of those cases, I
would have to defer you to DOJ. I don't know if they are
specific to crimes against American citizens in Mexico.
Mr. Gonzalez. Yes, that is the only reason I am asking,
because in the last 90 days we have had at least 11 American
citizens murdered in Mexico. One or two of them were from my
district, so it is quite a concern. One was just on the bridge
coming across, on the Mexican side, and we had a 13-year-old
kid get shot and these nine. And this is just what I know of. I
don't have any more confirmations from the State Department,
but it certainly is a concern.
Thank you for your testimony.
Mr. Rodriguez. You are welcome.
If I might just add, if I could just take 1 more minute, I
am a career consular officer with the Foreign Service, and I
have spent a good deal of my career working in Mexico on Mexico
issues with regard to the safety of American citizens. We take
it very seriously.
We are immediately engaged when an American citizen is
either injured or something more grave happens to them in
Mexico. And I can tell you from my experience, the Mexican
Government and their consular function kicks in to work very
closely in tandem with us in those cases. So in terms of
cooperation, in my experience over the past 20 years, it has
been very comprehensive.
And speaking once more to extraditions, I think we have had
something north of 30 high-value extraditions in the past 90
days.
Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
Well, thank you all for being here. Today is an important
hearing. Reducing violence and insecurity in Mexico is no easy
task. But I hope that my colleagues and I can work more closely
in the coming months with the executive branch to evaluate our
assistance to Mexico and improve our strategic approach toward
Mexico.
I thank the witnesses and all the members for being here
today.
With that, the committee is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 10:12 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
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OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN SIRES
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RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
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