[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
REACHING HARD-TO-COUNT COMMUNITIES IN
THE 2020 CENSUS
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
OVERSIGHT AND REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JANUARY 9, 2020
__________
Serial No. 116-81
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Reform
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available on: http://www.govinfo.gov
http://www.oversight.house.gov or
http://www.docs.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
39-576 PDF WASHINGTON : 2020
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York, Chairwoman
Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of Jim Jordan, Ohio, Ranking Minority
Columbia Member
Wm. Lacy Clay, Missouri Paul A. Gosar, Arizona
Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts Virginia Foxx, North Carolina
Jim Cooper, Tennessee Thomas Massie, Kentucky
Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia Mark Meadows, North Carolina
Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois Jody B. Hice, Georgia
Jamie Raskin, Maryland Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Harley Rouda, California James Comer, Kentucky
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida Michael Cloud, Texas
John P. Sarbanes, Maryland Bob Gibbs, Ohio
Peter Welch, Vermont Ralph Norman, South Carolina
Jackie Speier, California Clay Higgins, Louisiana
Robin L. Kelly, Illinois Chip Roy, Texas
Mark DeSaulnier, California Carol D. Miller, West Virginia
Brenda L. Lawrence, Michigan Mark E. Green, Tennessee
Stacey E. Plaskett, Virgin Islands Kelly Armstrong, North Dakota
Ro Khanna, California W. Gregory Steube, Florida
Jimmy Gomez, California Frank Keller, Pennsylvania
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Katie Porter, California
Deb Haaland, New Mexico
David Rapallo, Staff Director
Russ Anello, Chief Oversight Counsel
Amy Stratton Clerk
Christopher Hixon, Minority Staff Director
Contact Number: 202-225-5051
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C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on January 9, 2020.................................. 1
Witnesses
Ms. Vanita Gupta, President and Chief Executive Officer, The
Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights
Oral Statement............................................... 8
Mr. John Yang, President and Executive Director, Asian Americans
Advancing Justice
Oral Statement............................................... 10
Mr. Arturo Vargas, CEO, NALEO Educational Fund
Oral Statement............................................... 12
Mr. Kevin J. Allis, Chief Executive Officer, National Congress of
American Indians
Oral Statement............................................... 14
Mr. Marc Morial, President and Chief Executive Officer, National
Urban League
Oral Statement............................................... 16
Mr. Darrell Moore, Executive Director, Center for South Georgia
Regional Impact, Valdosta State University
Oral Statement............................................... 19
* The prepared statements for the above witnesses are available
at: https://docs.house.gov.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
----------
The documents listed below are available at: https://
docs.house.gov.
* Letter to Mr. Dillingham on the practice of hiring people;
submitted by Rep. Connolly.
* Letter from Mr. Dillingham on the practice of hiring people;
submitted by Rep. Connolly.
* Unanimous Consent: Mr. Moore's PowerPoint presentation;
submitted by Rep. Hice.
* Unanimous Consent: 2018 Census Bureau Report; submitted by
Rep. Raskin.
* Unanimous Consent: Article, The Hill, ``Deportations Lower
Under Trump Administration Than Obama;'' submitted by Rep.
Cloud.
* Unanimous Consent: Article, "The Census Could Undercount
Those Who Do Not Have Internet;" submitted by Rep. Tlaib.
* Unanimous Consent: Supreme Court Case - Brief of Businesses
and Business Organizations; submitted by Rep. Porter.
* Letter of Support: YMCA.
* Letter of Support: Leadership Conference on Civil and Human
Rights.
* Letter of Support: May 2019 Census Bureau Report on the
Undercounted.
* Letter of Support: Report - People with Disabilities.
* Letter of Support: The Urban Institute.
* Letter of Support: Epic.org.
* Letter of Support: AANPH.
REACHING HARD-TO-COUNT COMMUNITIES IN THE 2020 CENSUS
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Thursday, January 9, 2020
House of Representatives,
Committee on Oversight and Reform,
Washington, D.C.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m., in
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Carolyn Maloney,
[chairwoman of the committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Maloney, Norton, Clay, Connolly,
Krishnamoorthi, Raskin, Rouda, Wasserman Schultz, Sarbanes,
Welch, Speier, Kelly, DeSaulnier, Lawrence, Plaskett, Khanna,
Gomez, Ocasio-Cortez, Pressley, Tlaib, Porter, Haaland, Jordan,
Gosar, Foxx, Meadows, Hice, Grothman, Comer, Cloud, Gibbs,
Higgins, Norman, Roy, Miller, Green, Armstrong, and Keller.
Chairwoman Maloney. We will come to order. Without
objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess of the
committee at any time.
With that, I will now recognize myself to give an opening
statement and Mr. Gomez will follow me with a minute and the
same will be given to the ranking member.
Good morning. Thank you to everyone for being here today to
discuss a topic which is vital to our democracy, the decennial
census.
The 2020 census is imminent with counting set to begin in
Alaska in less than two weeks and across the country on April
1.
The Constitution requires every person to be counted, every
single person living in the United States of America. Not just
citizens, not just people of a particular political party or
race. Absolutely everyone.
I am gravely concerned that the Census Bureau may not be
prepared to meet this high bar and that the 2020 census could
leave communities across the country undercounted,
underrepresented, and underfunded.
The Government Accountability Office and the Department of
Commerce Inspector General both agree that the census is not
where it should be.
Sadly, under President Trump, we are forced to ask whether
the failure to address these concerns is due to incompetence or
is intentional.
The Census Bureau has been plagued by delays in hiring
thousands of census workers needed to ensure every person is
counted. These delays hurt hard-to-count communities the most
because outreach from trusted voices and nonresponse followup
are essential in these communities.
The administration's anti-immigrant policies and its
illegal effort to add a citizenship question have made an
accurate count even harder to obtain by sowing fear and
distrust in communities across the country.
But this appears to be the point. As Republican operative
Thomas Hofeller, the so-called Michelangelo of redistricting,
put it, adding a citizenship question would be, and I quote
from him, quote, ``advantageous for Republicans and non-
Hispanic whites,'' end quote.
Ultimately, the administration's goal in trying to add a
citizenship question seems to be to take the hard-to-count and
make them the uncounted.
This is why I introduced a bill last year, the Census ID
Act, to remove the citizenship question and codify the process
by which questions are added to the census form.
When the Supreme Court ruled that the attempt to add the
citizenship question was illegal, the administration refused
for almost two weeks to accept the outcome before finally
following the law.
Even still, the president is trying to use administrative
records to collect citizenship data. But this has nothing to do
with the 2020 census.
The Census Bureau needs to make clear that everyone can
participate in the census without fear, that doing so will not
hurt them or their family, and that their personal data will be
secure.
The Census Bureau also faces a host of new challenges as it
executes the largest census in history and the first to be
conducted almost mostly and entirely online.
Cyber threats, limited broadband access, reduced language
assistance, and gaps in outreach efforts all threaten the
success of the census.
Data from the census will determine the apportionment of
every seat in the House of Representatives and the allocation
of, roughly, $1.5 trillion in Federal funding.
An undercount means fewer Federal dollars for communities
that need the most, including for essential services like
Medicaid, children's health insurance, foster care, and
schools.
An undercount would also mean less representation for these
communities at every level of government. If you are not
counted, you are not represented.
Some states, including California and my home state of New
York, are trying to fill the gaps in the Census Bureau's
efforts to reach hard-to-count communities. I applaud these
efforts and urge every state to do the same. The Bureau should
coordinate with these states so that limited resources can be
used most effectively and efficiently.
To be clear, I believe the career civil servants at the
Census Bureau are working hard to achieve the mission of a
complete and accurate census.
But they need help and they need it quickly. Our witnesses
today know these hard-to-count communities better than anyone.
We should value their expertise and pay heed to their
recommendations, and I know I will.
In November 2018, my predecessor, our beloved chairman,
Elijah Cummings, vowed that ensuring a fair, accurate, and
nonpartisan census would be a top priority of the Oversight
Committee on his watch, and he was good to his word, and as
chairwoman, I intend to honor that commitment.
So, I want to thank everyone for coming and I look forward
to their testimony, and I would now like to call on Jimmy Gomez
for one minute.
Mr. Gomez. Thank you, Chairwoman Maloney.
As we all know, today's hearing is not a theoretical
exercise. The 2020 census is just days away and the threat of
an undercount is real.
The last census failed to count more than 750,000 Latinos,
more than 750,000 African Americans, and more than 50,000
American Indians and Native Alaskans.
I am very concerned that we could see an even bigger
undercount in 2020. Many Americans are fearful and mistrustful
of their government and overcoming that fear and mistrust
requires a massive mobilization effort that we have never seen
before.
But the Census Bureau appears to be far behind schedule. An
undercount will have an impact on the opportunities available
to the people in these communities.
It will mean more people going without health care, fewer
resources for childcare, affordable housing, and less money for
local schools.
As a committee and a Congress, our message should be
simple: Everyone must be counted. I am grateful to each of our
witnesses here today, not just for assisting the committee but
for your tireless advocacy to ensure that members of your
communities are counted fairly and accurately as the
Constitution requires.
And with that, I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The Chair now recognizes the ranking
member.
Mr. Jordan. I thank the Chair.
Before getting to my opening statement, Madam Chair, when
we last met I brought up the scathing report that Inspector
General Horowitz and the Justice Department brought forward
last month--a report where even former FBI Director Jim Comey
on national television had to say that he was wrong in his
defense of the FBI and how they handled the FISA application
process in the Trump-Russia investigation.
You indicated that you would let us know when we were going
to have Mr. Horowitz in front of this committee. I mean,
understand what he pointed out 17 different times. The FBI----
Chairwoman Maloney. I thank the gentleman. I thank the
gentleman.
Mr. Jordan. We are still waiting for an answer, Madam
Chair, on when we are going to have Mr. Horowitz before this
committee.
Chairwoman Maloney. Well, I would love to give you an
answer. And so, the purpose of this hearing is on the census
and I appreciate the ranking member's persistence on this
issue.
Before the Inspector General's report was released to the
public, all members of the Oversight Committee had the
opportunity to read the report and attend a briefing with the
Office of the Inspector General.
The Senate Judiciary Committee held a hearing on the
Inspector General's report on December 11. The Senate Committee
on Homeland Security followed with its own hearing on December
18. The Inspector General testified in both of these hearings
and answered numerous questions about the report.
So, I deeply appreciate the ranking member's request and I
wrote him a letter on December 6. At this point, I don't think
another hearing is necessary and I look forward to working with
him----
Mr. Meadows. So, Madam Chairman--Madam----
Chairwoman Maloney.--On areas where we can work together to
improve the lives of our constituents.
Mr. Meadows. So, Madam Chairman, why don't we have a census
hearing over in the Senate then if we are always going to rely
on the Senate to have these hearings? I mean, if you are
saying----
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman is not recognized.
Mr. Meadows. Well----
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman is not recognized.
Mr. Meadows. Well, then I have a point of order.
Mr. Jordan. I think----
Mr. Meadows. Then I have a point of order, and I will be
glad--because rule----
Chairwoman Maloney. Recite your point of order.
Mr. Meadows. Rule 11 Clause 2(j) Section 1 actually talks
about minority hearings and one of the issues that we have had,
Madam Chairman, is that we believe that this committee needs to
be doing their oversight function.
And I bring up Jack Evans. We have had Jack Evans resign
from the D.C. Council. It was the previous chairman along with,
I would say, the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Connolly, and I
expressed concern about proper oversight in a minority
hearing--hold on.
Chairwoman Maloney. Will the gentleman cite your point of
order?
Mr. Meadows. The point of order is, is under that rule we
have the requirement for a minority hearing, of which was not
noticed properly and was ambiguous at best and did not get to
the heart of the matter because it was not conducted. And if
the chairman is going to argue that a minority hearing didn't
happen----
Chairwoman Maloney. May I--may I respond to your point of
order?
Mr. Meadows [continuing]. I will--I will quote another
point of order.
Chairwoman Maloney. We had a minority day of hearings on
the D.C.----
Mr. Meadows. I would--I would----
Chairwoman Maloney. Reclaiming my time.
Mr. Meadows. No. No. I would appeal the ruling of the
Chair. I am going to----
Chairwoman Maloney. There is no ruling. There is no ruling.
There is no point of order.
Mr. Meadows. So, is my point of order out of order or not?
Chairwoman Maloney. You have not stated a point of order.
Mr. Meadows. My point of order is that we have violated the
rule by not having a minority hearing that was properly
noticed.
Chairwoman Maloney. We had a minority hearing.
Mr. Meadows. I appeal the----
Chairwoman Maloney. You are out of order.
Mr. Meadows. I appeal the ruling of the Chair.
Chairwoman Maloney. Reclaiming my time.
Mr. Meadows. I appeal the ruling of the Chair. I have that
right. I promise you I have that right.
Chairwoman Maloney. For a minority hearing--on a minority
hearing that we already had on D.C. Statehood?
Mr. Meadows. Has Mr. Evans--has Mr. Evans been here?
Chairwoman Maloney. Mr. Evans was invited to come along
with others that were requested by the minority.
Mr. Meadows. Then I make a motion that we subpoena Jack
Evans.
Chairwoman Maloney. They did not come, and it is not up to
me to get them to come. You invited a guest. It is up to the
minority to get them there.
Mr. Meadows. Well, you are the chairman. I would make a
motion that we subpoena Jack Evans and have him come in. If we
want to do proper oversight, I make a motion that we subpoena
Jack Evans.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman has not stated a proper
point of order.
Mr. Meadows. Well, the gentleman has stated a proper point
of order. Now, whether she wants to rule on it or not, I can
assure the parliamentarian I will be glad to go back and forth
with her if she wants to go ahead and put on her mic.
Chairwoman Maloney. The parliamentarian says it is not a
proper----
Mr. Meadows. I promise you that I have stated a proper
point of order.
Chairwoman Maloney.--Is not a proper point of order.
Mr. Meadows. I appeal the ruling of the Chair.
Mr. Higgins. Madam Chair?
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman has not stated a proper
point of order.
Mr. Meadows. All right.
Chairwoman Maloney. It is the ranking member's time. The
ranking member is recognized for his opening statement.
Mr. Jordan. Madam Chair, I yield.
Mr. Meadows. It is your time, Mr. Ranking Member.
Mr. Jordan. Well, let me go back to--and we have got lots
of concerns, Madam Chair. Let us just--let us just be honest,
and not only with the fact that Mr. Evans has stepped down and
we have yet to have him in front of this committee, but also,
as I raised earlier, the issue of Mr. Horowitz's report, which,
again [stated], 17 different times the FBI misled the FISA
court.
Let me just read something. Let me just read something. The
Chair talked about the Senate having hearings. But I thought
this committee, which has oversight for every single Inspector
General in our government--and we are talking now about the
Justice Department Inspector General--this is what the public
order from the FISA court judge, Judge Collyer, what she had to
say after Mr. Horowitz's report last month.
The frequency with which representations made by FBI
personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by
information----
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman--excuse me, Ranking
Member.
Mr. Jordan. No. No. No. No. The time is mine. The time is
mine.
Chairwoman Maloney. You are recognized for an opening
statement on the census.
Mr. Jordan. The time is mine, Madam Chair.
Mr. Meadows. He--oh, my gosh.
Mr. Jordan. And all I know is during your opening statement
the time didn't even run. You told me you were going to give us
the same opportunity during our opening statement.
Let me go back before I was interrupted and read Judge
Collyer's statement in her public order after Mr. Horowitz's
report.
The frequency with which representations made by FBI
personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by
information in their possession and with which they withheld
information detrimental to their case calls into question
whether information contained in other FBI applications is
reliable.
Let us put that in plain English. They lied so much to the
FISA court the judge is saying, how can we trust other
representations you have made to this court. That is what she
said.
After Mr. Horowitz's report, and to date the Chair doesn't
even want to have a hearing. The chairman's response was, oh,
the Senate had a couple hearings. That is good enough.
Even though this committee has jurisdiction over every
single Inspector General in the government. That is why we want
Mr. Horowitz here for a hearing.
Used to happen when Republicans were in charge. We brought
in the Inspector Generals after a big report. But I guess
things are different. I guess things are different. Mr. Evans
should have been here.
Mr. Horowitz should have been here already. Unfortunately,
obviously, the chairwoman is not going to do that.
In my remaining time I do want to address the situation of
the census. Madam Chairwoman, thank you for convening this
hearing.
Oversight of the census is one of this committee's core
responsibilities. However, I worry that since last January
Democrats have been more--much more focused on using our
committee to attack the Trump administration than on addressing
fundamental good government oversight like preparedness for the
census.
The census determines the apportionment of seats in the
House, it dictates how Federal funds are distributed to states
and localities, and it provides crucial details about the size,
vitality, and mobility of our population.
This data serves as the gold standard for researchers and
statisticians to better understand trends in American life.
When we were in the majority, Republicans held several
hearings about census preparedness dating back to 2015. Mr.
Meadows chaired many of those.
In 2018 alone, Republicans convened five hearings or
briefings about the census. We looked at important topics like
information technology preparations, cybersecurity
preparedness, and we sought to understand how the Bureau was
getting ready for the first census that will allow people to
submit responses online.
But rather than conducting similar meaningful oversights,
the Democrats have spent a year trying to stop one simple
question: Are you a citizen? One question.
Since obtaining the majority in January 2019 the Democrats
have held only one hearing on the 2020 census that did not
focus on the census citizenship question. Just one.
After all these months, I still don't understand why
Democrats do not want to know how many U.S. citizens are living
in the United States. It is a question that has been on our
census before.
It is a question asked numerous nations--asked by numerous
nations around the world and it is a question the United
Nations encourages countries to ask. And, frankly, if you go
talk to any of our constituents and ask them should we ask on
the census if you are a citizen, the person on the street that
you would talk to would say, well, of course--aren't we already
doing that.
And you would have to say yes, we are. We have been doing
it for 200 years, until now. Democrats baselessly argue that
the question is designed to scare immigrant and racial
communities in an effort to undercount those populations.
That is not correct. The Census Bureau conducted a test in
the summer--last summer--to study the operational effects on
self-response of including a citizenship question and found
that there was no difference--no difference in self-response
rates between forms with and forms without a citizenship
question.
Let me say that again. There was no difference in self-
response rates between forms with and forms without a
citizenship question.
In July 2019, following a Supreme Court decision, the Trump
administration removed the citizenship question from inclusion
on the 2020 census. The Democrats want you to believe this was
because the question was fundamentally inappropriate and the
court vindicated their position.
But in fact, the Supreme Court held the Trump
administration had the authority to ask the question about
citizenship on the census but took issue with the
administration's process for doing so under administrative law.
The Founders included a decennial census in the
Constitution to ensure our government is responsive and
accountable to the people, not to aid in assisting in political
ambitions.
I hope that today we can stop playing partisan games, get
back to the fundamental oversight that is needed to accomplish
the census's stated goal--to count everyone once, only once,
and in the right place.
As we examine hard-to-reach populations today, we should
ensure census does its best to count everyone.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I look forward to hearing from our
witnesses and would yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
I would like to introduce our witnesses. We are privileged
to have a rich diversity of witnesses on our panel today that
can testify regarding their hard-to-count communities.
Vanita Gupta is the president and chief executive officer
of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights.
John Yang is the president and executive director of the
Asian Americans Advancing Justice.
Arturo Vargas is the chief executive officer of the NALEO
Educational Fund.
Kevin Allis is the chief executive officer of the National
Congress of American Indians.
And Marc Morial is the president and chief executive
officer of the National Urban League.
Darrell Moore is the executive director of the Center for
South Georgia Regional Impact at Valdosta State University.
And if you would all please rise and raise your right hand
I will begin by swearing you in.
Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
[Witnesses are sworn.]
Chairwoman Maloney. Let the record show that the witnesses
answered in the affirmative. Thank you, and please be seated.
The microphones are sensitive so please speak directly into
them and, without objection, your written statement will be
made part of the record.
And with that, Ms. Gupta, you are now recognized for your
opening statement. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF VANITA GUPTA, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE
OFFICER, THE LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE ON CIVIL AND HUMAN RIGHTS
Ms. Gupta. Chairwoman Maloney, Ranking Member Jordan, and
members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to
testify today. And thank you, Chairwoman Maloney, for your
leadership in calling this hearing to reach hard-to-count
communities in the 2020 census.
The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights
believes a fair and accurate census is among the most important
civil rights issues of our day.
Not only is the census essential to apportioning political
power but the data also influence significant Federal funding
for services like schools, fire departments, and hospitals.
It is the bedrock of our democracy and has enormous impact
on the Nation's ability to ensure equal treatment under law.
The 2020 census is likely to be the largest, most difficult
enumeration in our Nation's history. The U.S. population is
increasingly diverse geographically, culturally, and
linguistically.
The Census Bureau must meet the growing challenges that
threaten to undermine the enumeration. And even with carefully
planning, the Bureau has historically undercounted certain
communities in the census, notably, people of color, young
children, people experiencing homelessness, and renters. And
for some populations, for example, young children under the age
of five, the undercount has grown progressively worse.
Now additional populations such as rural residents and
older Americans may experience increased vulnerability because
of the first high-tech census.
Households may not participate in the census for reasons
including mistrust of government, limited language access, data
confidentiality concerns, and lingering fear following the
failed attempt to add a citizenship question to the census.
Hard-to-county communities are in every state and district,
from large urban areas to rural and remote communities,
including American Indian tribal lands and reservations.
And that is why the Leadership Conference launched Census
Counts, a nationwide campaign to drive strategies--outreach
strategies, to hard-to-count communities through a network of
trusted national and local messengers and to complement and
strengthen Census Bureau efforts.
Census Counts' national organizations, some of whom are
represented here today, include people and networks who live
and work in communities most at risk of being missed in the
census.
Together, we are training and educating community leaders
about the census, translating materials into languages the
Bureau will not, as well as monitoring Bureau activities to
ensure that they are best serving hard-to-count populations.
Our campaign, States Count Action Network, works with
coalitions in all 50 states and D.C. to reach hard-to-count
populations and encourage them to participate in the census.
We are grateful to congressional leaders for your
bipartisan efforts in 2019 to ensure sufficient funding for the
2020 census.
The Bureau must update its operational plan now with input
from key stakeholders and Congress, and use the additional
funding to meet the goals set by Congress.
The window of opportunity to ensure a successful census in
all communities is closing fast and we urge the committee and
the Census Bureau to closely track and address the following
concerns.
First, the Bureau has to meet the challenges of the first
high-tech census by ensuring IT readiness and addressing the
digital divide, cyber attacks, and disinformation campaigns.
The Bureau must update Congress on the status of system
readiness to build confidence at a time when many people are
skeptical and even fearful of government and data security.
Further, our coalition has observed intentional efforts to
suppress census participation in social and traditional media.
Under pressure from the Leadership Conference, other civil
rights groups, and Congress, tech companies have started to
fight disinformation and misinformation that is preying on
people's fears.
Both the Bureau and tech companies must be transparent
about their plans to counter census interference and ensure
that these policies are strictly enforced.
Targeting communications and advertising outreach to hard-
to-count communities is also really critical and we have
concerns right now.
Stakeholders are concerned about the Bureau's paid media--
plan that it isn't robust enough to do the necessary outreach
and encourage full participation among hard-to-count population
groups.
The Bureau's 2020 Census Partnership Program will play an
essential role in building trust, raising awareness, and
increasing participation in the census, and the Bureau has to
provide more information to help Congress and stakeholders
determine whether it is on track to meet the program's stated
goal, including its target number of partnerships.
And last, the Bureau has to have accessible physical
presence in hard-to-count communities. Stakeholders urgently
need more information and a deployment plan on the Bureau's
proposed Mobile Questionnaire Assistance Center initiative.
With $90 million provided by Congress, the Bureau needs to hire
more staff and create a larger footprint, including mobile and
fixed locations, to be effective.
When people--when your constituents are not counted in the
census they remain invisible for the next 10 years and there
are no do-overs. We have to get it right the first time.
The Leadership Conference looks forward to working with all
members of the committee to ensure a cost-effective, secure,
and above all, fair and accurate census in every one of our
Nation's communities.
Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
Mr. Yang?
STATEMENT OF JOHN YANG, PRESIDENT AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ASIAN
AMERICANS ADVANCING JUSTICE
Mr. Yang. Thank you very much, Chairwoman Maloney, Ranking
Member Jordan, and thank you all for hosting this hearing.
Asian Americans Advancing Justice, AAJC, is part of a
national affiliation that has independent affiliates in
Atlanta, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, and includes
community partners--over 160--in 33 states and the District of
Columbia.
We maintain a permanent census program that monitors issues
related to the census, outreach to our community regarding
these issues, and educating policymakers about these important
issues.
We have also served for the Census Bureau on numerous
community advisory committees since 2000, including most
recently two three-year term stints on the National Advisory
Committee for race, ethnicity, and other populations.
We are also proud to partner with Ms. Gupta and Mr. Vargas.
We are one of the co-chairs for the Leadership Conference's
Census Task Force.
I appreciate this opportunity to testify and speak
specifically about the Asian-American Native Hawaiian Pacific
Islander community with this next decennial and the ability of
the Census Bureau to reach this community.
Now, at the outset, it is important to talk about why our
community is important. It is a growing minority group. It is
the fastest growing minority group, growing by 46 percent since
the 2000 census--the 2010--and growing by similar rates since
2010.
Now, although there is a model minority myth that Asian
Americans uniformly are largely, educated, exceed average
incomes, the reality is that many in our community, especially
Southeast Asians--Native Hawaiian Pacific Islanders--suffer
significant gaps with respect to income and education. It is
only through accurate census data can we understand this
rapidly and changing demographic and the needs for this
community.
Now, when the administration proposed to add the
citizenship question to the 2020 decennial census without any
testing, we knew right away that we had a five-alarm fire, and
although we put out that fire through litigation to
successfully prevent that question from appearing on the 2020
decennial census, we know that damage has been done.
Like any fire, the damage that is done takes time for it to
be repaired. Getting immigrant families to respond to the
census, understand the census is complicated under any
circumstance.
The aftermath of the citizenship question debacle and the
continuing anti-immigrant rhetoric that we see, this task has
become formidable. There is significant confusion and distrust
about the administration's intent and the Census Bureau has
been limited in its response to these challenges.
Second, although the Census Bureau has made some
improvements to their language support program, there are still
severe gaps that need to be overcome.
With respect to the online response option, the only Asian
languages covered are Chinese, Tagalog, Korean, Vietnamese, and
Japanese. Significantly, there also is no written response
option in languages other than English and Spanish.
And although there are language assistance guides provided
in additional languages, there is no coverage for Native
Hawaiian Pacific Islander languages and other important Asian
languages.
Third, hiring for the partnership programs and for census
takers has been slow and inconsistently inclusive of
underserved communities.
Among the barriers that have been encountered is the
emphasis on online applications, backlogs on background checks,
and insufficient outreach to our communities with respect to
job opportunities.
Only recently the Bureau announced the ability to hire
census takers that would not be limited to U.S. citizens but
other people that have work authorizations.
Although this is, clearly, favorable to serve our
demographic, the fact that it came so late minimizes the
potential benefits that this brings.
Likewise, field officers and partnership specialists need
to be trained adequately to ensure that they provide consistent
responses to different questions about census policy.
Thus far, we have seen from the field that too often
inconsistent responses have been provided. For the
communications campaign that Ms. Gupta alluded to, that is an
important role.
We only recently understood the full media bias in mid-
December and just yesterday the Census Bureau briefed us
specifically on the Asian-American plans in this respect.
Now, previously, one of our concerns had been the lack of
any media campaign targeted to the South Asian community, and
Chairwoman Maloney, Representative Meng, and others have
addressed this concern to the Census Bureau, for which we
appreciate.
Just yesterday, the Bureau announced that it would be
providing some outreach to Hindi and in Urdu. So, we see that
as a favorable development. But we need to understand more
details about what that media campaign would entail.
Nevertheless, we also remain very concerned by the limited
number of languages that are provided in the media campaign and
the apparent lack of micro targeting of communities other than
the five Asian languages for which online responses would be
accepted.
We believe that that approach is insufficient to address
these communications issues, especially with communities that,
while English proficient, would receive messages better than
are ethnically and culturally tailored.
In conclusion, there are still numerous challenges to
ensuring that the Asian-American Pacific Islander community is
fully counted. We appreciate the efforts that have been made so
far but there is more work to be done.
Thank you very much.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you very much.
Mr. Connolly. Madam Chairman?
Chairwoman Maloney. Mr. Vargas?
Mr. Connolly. Madam Chairman?
Chairwoman Maloney. Mr. Vargas is recognized.
Mr. Connolly. Madam Chairman, I have a unanimous----
Mr. Meadows. That is your side.
Mr. Connolly. I just wanted to enter something in the
record by unanimous consent.
Chairwoman Maloney. Sure.
Mr. Connolly. I am sorry?
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman can enter whatever he
would like.
Mr. Connolly. I thank the Chair.
I just have some correspondence between myself and Mr.
Dillingham on the practice of hiring people, especially
following Mr. Yang's testimony, in terms of non-English
speakers. I would ask that it be entered into the record at
this time.
Chairwoman Maloney. Without objection.
Mr. Connolly. I thank the Chair.
Chairwoman Maloney. OK. Thank you.
All right. Mr. Vargas is recognized.
STATEMENT OF ARTURO VARGAS, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NALEO
EDUCATIONAL FUND
Mr. Vargas. Thank you, Chairwoman Maloney, Ranking Member
Jordan, and members of the committee. Thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you today with regard to census
2020 preparations.
NALEO Educational Fund also has been an advisor to the
Census Bureau since 2000 and we are preparing to undertake a
massive independent campaign to promote a full count in the
2020 census.
I would like to stress that we respect the work of the
Census Bureau and as a national partner are coordinating for a
successful census.
I would also like to share my growing antipathy for the
term hard-to-count populations to describe some of the
populations we represent, when in fact what makes people hard
to count are the enumeration strategies that the Census Bureau
uses.
My remarks this morning are a summary of more extensive
remarks to the committee. Of the issues addressed in my written
testimony, there are three I would like to underscore today.
One, there has been damage done by the citizenship question
debacle and a remedy is needed. The Bureau's 2019 research
shows there is heightened sensitivity among several groups to a
census form with a citizenship question. Our research from the
Rhode Island end-to-end test and from the past three months
also show that the citizenship question debacle has created and
continues to foster fear and doubt.
Many Latinos are resistant to participate in the census
because they believe there will be a citizenship question on
the form, despite its absence, and many fear how the data would
be used.
This is exacerbated by a hostile environment toward
immigrants propagated by this administration. Our research also
shows that the Census Bureau has a trusted brand and we believe
it should use its favorable perception it holds to deliver
credible messages about the content on the 2020 census form.
However, we have observed the Bureau has been instructed
not to discuss the citizenship question. The Census Bureau
outreach staff must be directed to advise the public that there
will be no citizenship question on the 2020 census.
Having been briefed on the Bureau's communications
campaign, we are impressed that the Bureau and the contractors
understand the challenge.
Yet, we are deeply concerned that the LatinX outreach
approach is almost exclusively in Spanish and there is no
specific campaign to reach Latinos who consume information in
English.
NALEO Educational Fund and others will do all we can to
fill these gaps. But the task of repairing the damage and
reaching all Latinos must not be borne by us alone.
Two, the Census Bureau should prepare for a significant
demand for a paper form, ensure the online mobile response
option is effective, and implement an effective assistance
program.
Our research shows that Latinos prefer to respond to the
census using paper or online. Our end-to-end assessment also
shows that many Latinos participated in the test through in-
person enumeration.
Thus, the Census Bureau must be adequately prepared to
provide a paper form to all who prefer this response mode and
ensure that there is a sufficiently prepared, skilled, and
culturally competent enumerator work force.
Many of the Latinos we surveyed expressed a preference to
participate online and data show that Latinos are most likely
to access the internet via a mobile device.
Thus, the Bureau must ensure that the online response mode
is user friendly and with the load capacity to meet the demand.
Finally, we continue to believe that a Census Bureau
initiative to provide live in-person assistance is essential.
The Bureau needs to act quickly to stand up a well thought out
mobile questionnaire assistance centers program, which Congress
has funded, in addition to standing up traditional
questionnaire assistance centers.
Three, there persists a design flaw in the collection of
Hispanic origin and race data. One aspect of the 2020 census
that has not received adequate congressional oversight is the
failure to modernize the collection of data on Hispanic origin
and race.
Our research reveals that there is a significant confusion
among Latinos about how to answer the 2020 census Hispanic
origin and race questions.
The Census Bureau recognizes that the two-question approach
to collecting data on race and ethnicity that it has used since
1980 is flawed.
Researchers have warned that by using a two-question design
the 2020 census will show that, quote, ``some other race,''
unquote, will be the Nation's second largest racial group, a
category OMB does not even recognize.
Nearly all of the respondents to ``some other race'' will
also have indicated that they are Hispanic. The Census Bureau
carried out a comprehensive research and consultation process
to develop a better way for collecting data on race and
ethnicity.
The Bureau recommended a combined question approach for
2020. In early 2018, we learned that the Bureau's
recommendation had been gathering dust due to inaction by OMB's
Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. Congress must
investigate OIRA's inaction and the future of collection of
race and ethnicity data.
Millions of Americans will not understand how to answer the
2020 questions on Hispanic origin and race. Many will leave the
question or both questions blank, compromising the quality of
data and increasing costs to provide a complete census.
The Census Bureau's communications program must include
information on how to complete these questions to overcome the
design flaws.
Again, thank you for the opportunity to share our comments
with the committee. I look forward to your questions.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
I now recognize Kevin Allis for five minutes.
STATEMENT OF KEVIN J. ALLIS, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NATIONAL
CONGRESS OF AMERICAN INDIANS
Mr. Allis. Good morning, Chairwoman Maloney, Ranking Member
Jordan, and members of the committee.
I am Kevin Allis and I am a tribal citizen of the Forest
County Potawatami community in Wisconsin. I am also the chief
executive officer of the National Congress of American Indians
and on behalf of NCAI I thank you for holding the hearing and
reaching hard-to-count communities in the upcoming 2020 census.
I am the son of a woman who grew up on a hard-to-reach
Indian reservation in the 1940's, 1950's, and early 1960's, the
grandson of a chairman of a tribe who raised these concerns in
the late 1950's and early 1960's.
NCAI was founded in 1944 and my grandfather interacted with
this organization in the 1950's and 1960's about this topic and
many, and NCAI is the oldest and largest national organization
serving the broad interests of tribal nations and communities.
Tribal leaders created NCAI in response to termination and
assimilation policies that threatened the existence of tribal
nations.
Since then, NCAI has fought to preserve the treaty and
sovereign rights of tribal nations, advance the government-to-
government relationship, and remove historical and structural
impediments to self-determination.
There has been much success, yet there is much more work to
do for Indian Country to fully realize the promises this Nation
made, this body of Congress made, and this country owes to
Indian Country in its treaty and trust responsibilities.
Like all other governments, tribal nations strive to build
strong economies and ensure the health and well being of their
citizens. A full and accurate count in the census is absolutely
vital to these efforts.
Twenty-twenty census data will do three important things:
whether American Indians and Alaska Natives have an equal voice
and are accurately represented in the American political
process, whether there is fair distribution of the billions of
dollars of Federal funding to tribal nations and communities
across the United States, and whether the tribal nations have
accurate data for programmatic and resource-related
decisionmaking that their tribal leaders make that are central
to their status as sovereigns.
Given the importance of census data, the prospect of yet
another undercount of American Indians and Alaska Natives is
deeply concerning.
American Indians and Alaska Native people, especially on
reservations and in villages in Alaska, have been historically
underrepresented in this census.
In 2010, the U.S. Census Bureau estimates that American
Indians and Alaska Natives living on reservations or in these
villages were undercounted by 4.9 percent. That is more than
double the undercount of the next closed population group.
It is a fact that American Indian and Alaska Native
populations are among the hardest to count. Not only does a
significant portion of our population live in these hard to
count tracks; we also exhibit many of the factors that
contribute to communities being hard to count.
Additionally, a Census Bureau survey in our own message
testing found issues affecting American Indian and Alaska
Native census participation to be including mistrust of
government, concerns related to privacy, and perceptions that
participation would not lead to anything.
The Census Bureau, as a Federal agency, has treaty and
trust obligations to overcome these challenges and provide a
complete and accurate count for Indian Country.
As it stands today, tribal nations are concerned that we
will again see an undercount in 2020. The decision of the
Census Bureau to focus efforts on online enumeration is a
significant risk as many communities and individual households
in Indian Country do not have access to the internet.
This strategy, along with the need for trusted voices on
the ground in tribal communities, emphasize how critical it is
for the Census Bureau to allocate resources to hire and retain
American Indian and Alaska Native enumerators and partnership
specialists.
Yet, with just a few weeks before an enumeration begins in
Alaska, it is still unclear whether this goal has been reached.
Moreover, we are also concerned about the delays in the
Census Bureau's American Indian and Alaska Native advertising
campaign recommendations.
Indian Country has been working tirelessly to ensure an
accurate and complete count. However, efforts are not to
replace those or absolve the U.S. Census Bureau of its
responsibility to use its staff and resources to ensure a full
enumeration of American Indian and Alaska Native populations.
As such, NCAI recommends that Census Bureau makes steps to
implement the following actions.
Immediately address delays in hiring American Indian and
Alaska Native enumerators and partnership specialists to
enhance the utilization of trusted sources for Indian County
population to rely upon.
Reallocate resources to address needs for more
communication actions to ensure a complete enumeration of
American Indian and Alaska Native populations.
Increase communications to tribal communities on what
resources are available to ensure their participation is
complete.
Increase media buys in more diverse areas for tribal
communities. Ensure that data collected about American Indian
and Alaska Native households and individuals is accurate and
accessible after the implementation of a planned new disclosure
avoidance mythologies.
So, in conclusion, in closing, I urge this committee to
continue conducting oversight during the Census Bureau
implementation of the 2020 census.
This will help ensure a complete and accurate count for the
indigenous people of this country that have been here forever.
Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you. Thank you.
I now recognize Mr. Moore for five minutes. Morial.
Mr. Morial. Morial or Moore? Moore?
Chairwoman Maloney. Morial.
Mr. Morial. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE
OFFICER, NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE
Mr. Morial. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, Chairwoman
Maloney, and Ranking Member Jordan. I am Marc Morial. I serve
as president and CEO of the National Urban League.
I previously served as mayor of New Orleans, a Louisiana
state senator, and chairman of the 2010 Census Advisory
Committee. I am proud to be here today and thank you for the
opportunity.
The National Urban League was founded in 1910 as a
nonpartisan nonprofit civil rights organization dedicated to
the economic empowerment of African Americans.
We work through a network of 90 affiliates in 36 states and
the District of Columbia. We serve 2 million people a year. We
assist them in finding jobs and becoming homeowners and
starting small businesses in many very important areas.
I will speak today about the undercount of African
Americans and the challenges in the upcoming census and how the
National Urban League is mobilizing to ensure a complete and
accurate count.
I want to thank the committee and I want to thank the
leadership for ensuring that the census 2020 has been better
funded. The census has been historically underfunded for most
of the past decade.
What has been the significance of this? It has caused
operational and IT delays, recruitment and hiring challenges,
the cancellation of critical tests to improve the 2020 census
count.
Your leadership on this issue is in the best interests of
all of the American people and I encourage you to continue to
exercise your oversight responsibilities.
We have witnessed the browning of America in real time,
from California to Connecticut, from Florida to Alaska. We have
witnessed the growing needs of our communities as a gap between
those who have and those who have not has increased.
We see the true faces of the undercount every day, their
children. They are black. They are brown. They are the formerly
incarcerated. They are immigrants who are black, who are brown,
and of other races.
They are the homeless and the gentrified. They are the
digital illiterate and the digital homeless, those with no
internet address or access to speak of.
The census is a big deal. The Founding Fathers were
brilliant in ordaining that all the people in the United States
be counted every 10 years.
Fifty years ago, in 1970, my predecessor, Whitney Young,
Jr., who was executive director of the National Urban League,
testified before the then Subcommittee on Census and
Statistics, a part of the Committee on Post Office and Civil
Service.
At that time, he spoke passionately about the need for a
full and complete count of black and underserved communities.
His testimony about the 1970 census is oddly familiar to
the discussion today. He talked about inadequate assistance for
completing the forms, poor community outreach, the lack of
Spanish language forms, inadequate outreach in education to
reach minority populations.
He noted that the 1960 census--60 years ago--missed one in
10 black people, including one in six black men. Fast forward
to 2020.
And while there is much to applaud about the 2020 census,
the technological advancement and operational modernizations,
we and my co-panelists see too many parallels to the 1970
census and even more uncertainties.
In 2010, a million children, disproportionately black and
brown, didn't show up in the census. An alarming six out of 10
black children between the ages of zero and four were
completely missed.
The undercount of black and brown children has grown
exponentially and the economic and political consequences of
this are grave. African American men are still missed in
staggering numbers.
In the 2010 census, fully 3.9 million African Americans
were completely missed. Approximately 700,000 formerly
incarcerated men and women reenter our communities each year.
They must be counted. We must count the digital divide in rural
and poor, rural and urban poor communities and those with low
digital fluency who require a paper questionnaire and an
enumerator's knock on the door.
We have to anticipate disinformation social media campaigns
designed to mislead communities and communities of color about
the census and sow seeds of fear about census participation.
Community and outreach in education has been hampered by
the failed citizenship question which heightened distrust and
fear of the census in immigrant communities.
Now, we have worked with the Census Bureau to help achieve
an accurate 2020 count and we do commend the rank and file and
those in regional offices and partnership teams for the work
that they have done.
But let me talk about the gaps. Significant hiring delays
and backlogs are going to impact the door-to-door enumeration.
Let me make this point.
The Census Bureau's own research shows that notwithstanding
the internet access and the phone access, 40 to 60 percent of
Americans are going to wait until an enumerator knocks on the
door.
If in fact the Census Bureau does not hire a significant
number of enumerators on a timely basis, the enumerator portion
of this census will not succeed and the impact will be an
undercount in black communities, in brown communities, in Asian
communities, and in rural communities. Those hiring delays are
going to affect indigenous communities.
I want to say a few other things about the paid advertising
program and I want to make this point. We have had an
opportunity to look at that advertising program.
Our concern is that the timing of the advertising program
is misaligned with the enumerator process. So, right now----
Chairwoman Maloney. Wrap up. Your five minutes is over. If
you could wrap up.
Mr. Morial. Yes. I am seeing 1:37 on the clock.
Mr. Meadows. Over.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Morial. As you all say, I beg your indulgence.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Morial. My final point is that I encourage and--in the
question and answer period--would like to explain and
illuminate how in fact the advertising program is misaligned
with the enumerator portion. It is important that advertising
take place while the door-knocking program is ongoing.
Thank you very much.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you. Thank you.
Mr. Moore is recognized.
STATEMENT OF DARRELL MOORE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR
SOUTH GEORGIA REGIONAL IMPACT, ALDOSTA STATE UNIVERSITY
Mr. Moore. Sorry.
Chairwoman Maloney, thank you, and the members of the
committee, for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of
rural Americans and, specifically, rural Georgians.
Georgia, like many others, is facing statewide challenges
in rural communities--population declines, graying populations,
slow job growth, and distressed cities.
Valdosta State University is one of four Georgia regional
universities and we have a mission to serve a 41-county service
area, primarily in south Georgia.
In 2017, leadership at VSU started talking about how they
could have an impact on the reoccurring challenges that all of
those communities face, and that could be business, industry,
health care, K through 12 education, city/county government,
and they came up where the result was they created the Center
for South Georgia Regional Impact, and I started working with
that organization in 2018.
The mission of the Center is to try to work with all 41
counties to identify opportunities and challenges that they
might have and that will all go back to Valdosta State and try
to identify resources to help them out.
That could be interns, graduate assistants, class projects,
research, professors working on projects. It really just
depends on what the need is and it covers all six of our
colleges.
We are focused on our 41-county service area and it is a
very diverse area. Many of you would probably consider everyone
rural but the largest county in our region is Lowndes at
115,000 and we have counties as small as 3,500.
So, what works in one county is not going to work in the
other, even though they do have similar issues and challenges.
Our goal is that the communities know what they need best.
So, we are trying to find out what they need and then go back
and try to find resources to help them out.
One thing that really helped me out, I guess, in the
transition is I have had a 25-year background in economic
development, and I had a successful career in Waycross,
Georgia, and spent the last 21 years in Moultrie in Colquitt
County.
While I was in Moultrie, we had about $325 million in
investment and created 3,500 new jobs, and when I left last
year we had $96 million in projects that were under
construction and a 3.1 percent unemployment rate, which is
pretty strong for a south Georgia rural community.
But one thing that really kind of stuck out as we were
looking at what we were trying to do with the Center, and what
we were trying to do with a lot of my friends in south Georgia
was the Georgia Chamber of Commerce had a presentation called
``Georgia 2030'' that had been making the rounds with its
presentation for probably three or four years.
You don't have the graphics but if you will look them back
up, they have got population projections and job projections
through 2030, and those numbers are pretty dire for south
Georgia and for rural Georgia.
As you would expect, you are projecting strong population
and job growth in Atlanta and many of our hub cities in
Savannah, Augusta, Columbus, and Macon. You are projecting
minimal growth in some other counties.
But many of our counties in rural Georgia are projecting
population losses and job losses, and from an economic
development standpoint, that is a death knell.
So, looking back at the mission, the census posed a
tremendous opportunity for us to get involved. It was a
tremendous challenge for our 41 counties.
I mentioned my career in Colquitt County and one thing that
really tied in with what we are doing with the census right now
was when I was in Colquitt we had a pilot program with the
University of Georgia called Archways and it was a similar
premise.
We had a UGA employee that served in Moultrie. We would
identify big projects. They would go back to Athens and bring
resources back to us. One of our projects was the 2010 census.
So, we really, in 2009, had a Complete Count Committee
before we knew there was one. We had a great team in place. We
had 30 to 40 people. We had representatives or trusted voices
representing every different demographic of the community.
As a result, we had an 8.19 percent in the 2010 census
which was, again, pretty strong for a rural south Georgia
community.
I parlayed that information and used it in every request
for a proposal that we sent out for a new industry, retail,
commercial, and continued creating more jobs in our community
because companies want to invest where they are going to grow.
What we have done from VSU support is we have worked with
local and regional communities. We have met with all 41
counties and tried to help them organize their Complete Count
Committees.
Again, everyone is different. What works in one county is
not going to work in the other. The demographics are going to
be different. The resources are going to be different.
We have assisted with strategies to achieve an accurate
count. We have worked with the Governor's Complete Count
Committee, their marketing committee. They have hired a
marketing firm called Network Planet, UGA, and, of course, the
U.S. census reps that are serving our region.
We have done several focus groups with hard-to-count
populations, trying to refine our marketing message and we are
also providing free marketing support to our 41-county area.
We have got order forms that we sent out. We have got
billboards already up in all 41 counties. We have got coloring
pages that we are making available through K through 5 systems
throughout south Georgia and, technically, throughout Georgia.
We have got table tents that promote the census that are
going to be on every restaurant table from Cordele south, all
41 counties.
We have got posters that target how the census impacts
business and industry, how it impacts your family, how it
impacts children, how it impacts migrant farm workers in
agriculture and how it impacts you from a community leader
standpoint.
All those media are available in English and Spanish and we
also have the ability to provide them in other languages if
necessary.
The order forms came back in in November and we currently
have order forms for 45,306 table tents, 65,757 posters that
will be delivered at no cost to all of our counties next week.
We are also doing banners, promotional tee-shirts, and other
media to help support them.
I know my time is up. My main goal or our main goal was to
make sure every citizen knows how important it is for them,
their family, and their community to participate in the census.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you so much, and thank you for
all of your efforts. I commend all of our panelists.
I would like to announce today that on February 12 the
director of the Census Bureau, Dr. Steven Dillingham, will be
appearing before this committee to answer questions about how
the Bureau is responding to the many challenges that our
panelists outlined today, and with so much at stake a vigorous
oversight of the 2020 census is absolutely essentially.
I now recognize myself for five minutes. This year's census
will be the largest and most complex in our Nation's history.
So, the Bureau has a tough job to ensure that every community
gets fully and accurately counted.
Sadly, the current administration admitted or practically
admitted that they don't even want to count everyone when they
tried to illegally add a citizenship question to the census.
As a result, many cities and states have stepped up to
ensure everyone is counted. They have established what is
called, and Mr. Moore talked about it and Mr. Morial, Complete
Count Committees to identify risks, recommend solutions, and
direct state and local funding to areas of hard-to-count at-
risk areas.
Mr. Morial, you served in New Orleans as the--on the
Complete Count Committee I believe in 1990 you said--and led
that committee as mayor in 2000. Would you agree that
establishing these committees is the right move and would you
recommend this practice to other states and localities?
Mr. Morial. It is important that states and localities, and
in the case of Mr. Moore, regional economic development
organizations understand that the success of the census
requires a partnership and the involvement of local elected
officials.
What we don't have visibility on at this point is how many
cities, how many states, how many counties have in fact created
Complete Count Committees and have operationalized them.
One problem with this year's census is that census reduced
the number of local partnership offices by 50 percent and these
local partnership offices were the connective tissue between
the Complete Count Committees and the Census.
So, yes, it is an important strategy and I would encourage
it and I would say that in 2000 the city of New Orleans spent
money and had its own effort underway with people and
advertising and resources.
I know in this instance there are a number of communities
and cities who are doing the same thing for 2020--and states.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
My home state of New York is doing that. They created their
own Complete Count Commission. You pointed out an important
point, that they have reduced some support in this area.
Maybe we should get the Census Bureau to do a review of how
many Complete Count Committees are out there and that could
have a good overview.
Mr. Morial. Oh, it would be very helpful.
Chairwoman Maloney. And this--the New York Count Committee
came up with eight risks and challenges which were similar to
what you said today--language barriers, the digital divide,
hiring issues, and distrust among communities of color. Very
similar to what you were saying.
Then they came up with 18 specific recommendations and also
put in, roughly, $60 million in city, state, and philanthropic
funding to help make sure that the census was stronger, and we
hope that other communities can also take the initiative as you
have in New Orleans.
Ms. Gupta, do you believe the Census Bureau should be
engaging with these state and local communities to make the
Bureau's outreach more efficient and effective? It seems that a
better coordination would help. Can you elaborate in this area?
Ms. Gupta. Yes. These Complete Count Committees are
incredibly important. They are actually--the model was
developed by the Bureau at is inception to coordinate state and
local efforts around the country to get out the count, and we
know that actually most states have, indeed, created them.
There are five states that have not. They are Louisiana--sorry,
four--Nebraska, South Dakota, and Texas. Florida just this week
created one.
But, you know, one of the challenges is states can't just
nominally create these committees. They also have to put
significant funding toward them, particularly because this is
going to be one of the most difficult enumerations.
So, Florida created a Complete Count Committee this week
but then did not allocate any dollars to it. So, there is
mapping.
You know, over two dozen states have allocated and
contributed significant state-based funding to help supplement
the Federal funding and the work of the Bureau.
But that partnership needs to be really tight, and too many
states still have not added additional resources to really get
the partnership, trusted messengers, communications,
supplemental work out into and as a part of that. So, the
Bureau needs to work much more closely with these committees
around the country.
Chairwoman Maloney. Well, I don't have a chance to speak to
everyone, but if you could place in writing. I will let Mr.
Moore have the last word on how beneficial these Complete Count
Committees are. Did you work with them in Georgia?
Put on the mic, please.
Mr. Moore. Not used to that.
They have been tremendous. We have actually had a
Governor's Complete Count Committee since 2017 and, honestly,
we have had much more emphasis on the census for 2020 than we
did in 2010.
Chairwoman Maloney. That is right.
Mr. Moore. In our district in 2010 I don't think we had
planned for a lot of support but we do this year.
Chairwoman Maloney. That is good. Thank you.
Mr. Moore. There are partners all over. We have tracked I
think almost every county----
Chairwoman Maloney. Well, my time has expired but--and I
invite all of the panelists to put in writing their experiences
with Complete Count Committees and other ways they think it
needs to be expanded. It is as much an important challenge
before us, an accurate fair census. Our Constitution requires
it. Our government relies on it and our democracy depends on
it.
With that, I recognize the distinguished ranking member for
five----
Mr. Gosar of Arizona?
OK. Mr. Gosar?
Mr. Gosar. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Mr. Moore, I mean, I am from Arizona. You are from Georgia.
It sounds like you got some pretty good expertise here.
You know, according to the City University of New York's
mapping service, 21 percent of the population in my district
did not send in their survey, and this same report estimates
that 25 percent of the population in my district actually lives
in these hard-to-count districts.
Have we learned anything from previous census to combat the
waste and the lack of a response?
Mr. Moore. Sure, and that is one thing that we are trying
to incorporate on a county-by-county level or community level
in all of our communities.
We have historical data. We know what the response rate was
by census track in 2010 so we can tell you where those hard-to-
count areas were then, and mostly like if they were hard to
count in 1910 they will be in 1920.
We also have maps that show where you have low or limited
internet connectivity. So, we are working with our local
Complete Count Committees to come up with a plan to target all
of those areas and a focused area, a shotgun or a rifle area
instead of a shotgun trying to hit everybody else.
We have got several different organizations. Our Georgia
libraries are putting up stations where people can come back
in, get information on the census, fill out those census
[forms] while they are there.
I had a call with the Georgia Farm Bureau about two weeks
ago. They are going to do the same thing. We have got family
connections, housing authorities, soup kitchens that are all
doing similar items.
So, our main goal, again, is awareness and education,
trying to make sure people know why it is important and making
it easy for them to participate.
Mr. Gosar. Now, you brought up internet access and,
roughly, 17 percent of my--almost 18 percent of my district has
no access to--real access to internet.
So, has providing that on the internet service actually
expanded the reach or has it made it more convenient for those
people to actually do it that are fundamentally falling
through?
Mr. Moore. I think it is probably both. You have a younger
demographic right now, which is hard to count--your Millennials
that do everything on the phone, do everything on the computer.
We do have maps, and I actually received one from the U.S.
Census for all of our counties about two weeks ago. So, we know
which areas don't have internet access.
The first mailing for the census is going to start going
out March 12. Most people that have internet access are going
to get an internet first card encouraging them to go on and
participate.
Those areas that they know do not have internet access will
get a written form the first time. So, everybody in the country
is going to have an opportunity fill that out by the internet
with a written form at least once, possibly twice, and or do it
by the toll-free number.
Again, you just got to encourage them and promote them, let
them know how important it is for them to participate.
Mr. Gosar. So, now, the census has four hard-to-count
categories--hard to locate, contact, persuade, and interview--
and these barriers are pertinent to my district.
When you look outside the cities of Prescott, Kingman,
Yuma, and what not, a zero to 60 percent mail return rate was
issued.
How is that--I mean, I noticed in your comments that it is
not a one-size-fits-all. You expanded. Can you elaborate a
little bit more and be----
Mr. Moore. Yes, it is definitely not, and we have got
communities--we are serving about 50 counties right now. Some
of them the city and the county have taken the lead. Some of
them Family Connections, which is a nonprofit family services
type organization, is taking the lead. Some of it is in the
Chamber and the development authority.
But, really, I think Mr. Morial may have mentioned the
trusted voices or possibly Mr. Vargas. You have got to have
trusted voices for everybody in your community and we had that
in Colquitt County in 2010.
Somebody that listens to me may not listen to you, and vice
versa. So, if you have someone that has influence on 50 or 100
people, you need to get them engaged in the Complete Count
Committee. Let them know why it is important and get them to go
back out and have an impact on the people that they have an
influence on.
Mr. Gosar. Now, I kind of want to step outside of my
district and address the fast-growing state of Arizona. Year
after year we have seen growth--population increases of 2.2
percent and above.
So, counting as many people as possible is critical for our
future. That includes diverse populations, different ethnics,
tribal entities.
Do the census efforts effectively address these communities
that are identified as hard to reach?
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir, and that is what--they are trying to
develop plans for each community. I know U.S. Census and even
state census has hard-to-count populations and all those don't
apply to every community.
Again, it is critical for a community to have a robust
Complete Count Committee that is very diverse. You have got
faith based. You have got business. You have got local media.
You have got people that feel comfortable writing letters
or speaking that may have influence on the general community.
So, it is important that you come up with a real plan to get
everybody to participate.
Mr. Gosar. I thank the gentleman and yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlewoman, Ms. Norton--from the
District of Columbia, Congresswoman Norton is recognized for
five minutes.
Ms. Norton. First, I want to say I appreciate the testimony
of all of you. But I must say, Mr. Moore, I appreciate your
testimony because it emphasizes the extent to which the census
issue has no ideological face.
Indeed, it is against the interests of every member sitting
up here to have their own--their own residents not counted
because, if for no other reason, the money will not be--money
will not go to them.
Understand the money will be appropriated by the Congress.
It only means that your district won't get it because you have
supported an undercount.
I was amazed to see the ranking member's remarks. Even
after a Supreme Court--a conservative Supreme Court has rescued
the country from this issue, I would just like to indicate what
they said.
The Supreme Court said that the rationale given by my
colleagues had been contrived and incongruent with what the
record reviews and that conservative Supreme Court is why we
are going to have a chance to have an accurate census.
Now, it is not enough to say, look everybody, the question
is not on the census. I want to urge every Member of Congress
to undertake actions on the internet, in your own district, to
try to reverse the message that was out there for two years
that alarmed people, remembering that it is always difficult to
get an accurate census and that my friends on the other side
have made it even more difficult.
So, let me ask you, Mr. Vargas, because I understand that
your organization has been studying the issue since the Supreme
Court ruling and I am trying to get data or information on the
impact, what anybody there--but I understand you have given
some thought to this--on the impact of the citizen question on
the willingness, as I speak, of citizens to participate in the
census.
Mr. Vargas. Thank you, Congresswoman, for that question.
In October, November, and December, NALEO Educational Fund
commissioned research to survey 1,200 Latino adults
oversampling Latino immigrants and we held 12 focus groups
throughout the country in Oregon, Florida, North Carolina,
Wisconsin, Texas, and Arizona to try to assess what the current
perceptions are by Latino immigrants toward the census.
We found some important things. One is that the Census
Bureau has a positive brand that it needs to use and to fully
educate the public about what is and is not going to be asked.
We also learned that there are very significant differences
in willingness to participate by Latino citizens and Latino
noncitizens. Latino citizens express much more likelihood to
say that they will fill out their census forms. Noncitizens
less so.
Ms. Norton. Well, do you think the undocumented and every
jurisdiction sitting on this panel has undocumented people--are
undocumented people going to participate in this census?
Mr. Vargas. Congresswoman, this isn't an issue of just
undocumented immigrants. These are families where they have
mixed status households--U.S. citizens, legal permanent
residents, DACA applicants, people of varying immigration
status--and there is a fear of why am I being asked now am I a
citizen, yes or no, when immigrants are following policy
developments day to day and know that there is a campaign
against immigrants in the country today.
So, this just has created an environment that does not help
the Census Bureau in being able to convince everybody that it
is in fact safe and confidential.
That is why we need trusted messengers to speak up and the
trusted messengers we have identified are educators, health
care providers, minority-led organizations like the ones here
on the panel today, and local elected officials.
Those are the individuals we need to empower to speak out
and to convince their constituents that participating in the
census is safe and confidential and any perceived risk actually
is outweighed by the damage done by not participating in the
census.
Ms. Norton. This is very important. This responsibility is
on us all and not just census, why don't you do better.
Let me finally ask a question about the administration
which refuses to give up on administrative records. I hope
people haven't even heard about this.
But do any of you have any information on the executive
order or the effect of the executive order to start collecting
citizenship data from Federal and state administrative records?
Do you think this will have any impact? I am not trying to
give it--I am not trying to give it air time. I just want to
know--I just want to know if we have seen any repercussions.
Ms. Gupta. If I may, Congresswoman. You know, I think it is
fundamentally important, building off of what my colleague,
Arturo Vargas, just said for people to understand that under
Federal law the Bureau is not allowed to release individual
data or personal responses that they receive to any other
government agency.
But we know that the executive order has created grave
concerns that the president is attempting to use that to
exclude noncitizens from the population count that states use
to redraw district lines.
That would be unconstitutionally blocking communities
across the country from fair and equal political representation
and Asian-Americans Advancing Justice and MALDEF have actually
filed a lawsuit to challenge the executive order.
Ms. Norton. Thank you. Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlewoman's time has expired.
The distinguished ranking member, Jim Jordan of Ohio, is
recognized for questioning.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Madam Chair.
So, now we can't even debate it. Think of what the--think
of what we just heard--what we have heard from testimony from
Mr. Yang and Mr. Vargas.
For a year the Democrats told us oh, the citizenship
question on the census is bad. It is a bad idea. Even though we
have been doing it since 1820 they tell us it is a bad idea.
Now today--even though it is not.
Even though when the Census Bureau did a study last summer
they saw no difference in self-response rates between forms
with the citizenship question and those without the citizenship
question.
But now today it is even worse. They said oh, just the fact
we had a debate is harmful. Now, think how scary that is.
Mr. Yang and Mr. Vargas both said that and the gentlelady
from the District of Columbia just said the same thing. We are
not even allowed to talk about it now.
Now, that is really scary--the debate itself about a
question that has been asked since 1820. Let us just get the
facts straight.
Between 1820 and 1950 it was asked on the decennial census.
Between 1970 and 2000 it was asked on the long form census.
Between 2000 and today, the Census Bureau has placed it on the
American Community Survey.
So, it has been asked every single time. But now today we
are not even supposed to debate it. This is where the Left
wants to take us.
This is--think of what Judge Alito, previous member, [who]
talked about the Supreme Court decision. Here is what Judge
Alito said in his decision, concurring in part, dissenting in
part. ``No one disputes that it is important to know how many
inhabitants of this country are citizens.''
He is actually wrong. I think--I think--making a good point
but I think he is wrong. Every Democrat on this committee
disputes that. The witnesses here in front of us they dispute
that, even though all our constituents say yes, we should know
how many.
So, Mr. Yang, do you think it is important to know how many
citizens are in this country?
Mr. Yang. It is important under the Constitution, Article 1
Section 2, to ensure that all residents are counted under every
decennial census.
Mr. Jordan. That is not the question I asked you.
Mr. Yang. And if there is anything that detracts from that
decennial census in terms of offering a fair and accurate
count, that is a concern for the----
Mr. Jordan. So, you disagree with Judge Alito? ``No one
disputes that it is important to know how many inhabitants of
this country are citizens.'' Do you think he is wrong? Do you
think----
Mr. Yang. That is not the objective of the decennial
census.
Mr. Jordan. Again, that is not what I am asking. Do you
think it is appropriate to know how many people in this country
are citizens?
Mr. Yang. I would offer no further response because under--
we are here to talk about----
Mr. Jordan. Let the record show the gentleman won't even
answer the question.
So, between 1820 and 1950 when our country asked
inhabitants of this Nation, are you a citizen, was that wrong?
Mr. Yang. I dispute what your--your understanding of the
history of the question is with respect to the decennial
census. We can--we can offer further testimony. We can offer
further testimony.
Mr. Jordan. So, the Census Bureau today on the American
Community Survey should they be asking people the citizenship
question. Do you disagree with what the Census Bureau is doing
today as we speak?
Mr. Vargas. May I answer that question, Congressman?
Mr. Jordan. I addressed Mr. Yang.
Mr. Vargas. Sure.
Mr. Jordan. I am trying to get him to answer a question
that he refuses to answer.
Mr. Yang. I believe I did offer an answer. It might----
Mr. Jordan. I asked you a simple question. Is it
appropriate to ask a citizenship--is it appropriate to ask--to
find out how many people in this country are citizens?
Mr. Yang. It is appropriate to ask--under the census, the
census that we are talking about, we are trying to determine
the population of the United States and anything that detracts
from the fairness and accuracy of that count would not be part
of the mission of----
Mr. Jordan. And then I followed up and said so do you think
it is wrong that the Census Bureau on the American Community
Survey is asking a citizenship question. Do you think that is
wrong then?
Mr. Yang. That is a survey instrument that has been tested
in the context of the American Community Survey, which is a
long--which previously was the long form and that is different
than the decennial 2020 census.
Mr. Jordan. OK. If you are not going to answer my question
let me ask this. Is it okay to debate this issue or do you
stick with what you said in your opening testimony and what the
gentlelady from the District of Columbia said and what Mr.
Vargas said, that we shouldn't even have a discussion about it
because somehow that may impact what happens on the census?
Mr. Yang. What I said was that the fact that this question
was introduced has caused damage to the community and that
damage continues to this day, as demonstrated by the studies
from Mr. Vargas, as demonstrated by the Census Bureau itself.
And so that is what we need to address to ensure a fair and
accurate count on the census.
Mr. Jordan. So, because of that concern you think it is
appropriate to limit the First Amendment, limit speech, limit
debate in the United States Congress? We shouldn't even have
this debate? Is that what you are saying?
Mr. Yang. That is not what I said. I said that what we need
to do is to ensure that everybody is counted and anything that
has done damage to the fact that everybody would be encouraged
to participate in the census, which is something that----
Mr. Jordan. You said that debate--in your opening statement
you said the debate that took place over the last year on
whether to include a citizenship question was harmful to what
is going to happen on the census and the census count and being
able to count the people across this country.
That is what you said. And so what I am asking you is you
don't think that debate should have taken place at all then?
You don't think it is appropriate to have that debate in
the U.S. Congress about something that, again, has been done in
this country since 1820?
Mr. Yang. I believe that you are mischaracterizing what I
said----
Mr. Jordan. I believe you won't answer the question.
Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
The gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Clay, is recognized for
questions.
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for holding
this hearing.
Before I get into my line of questioning, I wanted to
recognize Mr. Vargas and I saw you had something to contribute
to that previous line of questioning.
Would you like to pick it up?
Mr. Vargas. The point I was going to make is that the
Census Bureau does ask in the American Community Survey how
many--if you are a citizen.
But the research determined, Congressman, is which
questions you ask and when you ask them has consequences.
Asking a citizenship question on the American Community Survey
is a different experience than asking a question on citizenship
on the decennial.
The researchers have determined that the better way to
collect citizenship data of the American public is through the
American Community Survey, not the decennial census.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much for that followup response.
Even with our united efforts at an administration seeking to do
the right thing the 2010 census missed some 2.1 percent of the
black community.
So, I am concerned that the current census sabotage efforts
of this administration with their failure to hire, failure to
allocate adequate resources, and scare tactics toward
immigrants will lead to an unprecedented undercount.
So, I want to thank the chairwoman for shedding a bright
light on the issue in today's hearing.
Mr. Morial, you are a veteran of several censuses. What are
some of the major challenges that have led to an undercount in
black and brown communities in past censuses?
Mr. Morial. Historically, the undercount has resulted from
the failure to count children completely and adequately, No. 1.
The historic undercount of African-American men has contributed
to the overall undercount in the African-American community.
But let me focus, because I think it is important, on the
2020 census where we are and why we are where we are. And so we
are where we are because there has been historic over the last
several years underfunding of the census.
That underfunding has led to the cancellation of a number
of tests that the census has done. It has meant the delay and
the late effort to begin hiring the enumerators. It has been
delays in doing the testing necessary to ensure that this
online system works well.
We don't want to have another healthcare.gov with the
census.
Mr. Clay. So, what----
Mr. Morial. So, those things--those things----
Mr. Clay. So, what now--excuse me.
Mr. Morial. Excuse me. Let me--let me finish answering Mr.
Clay's question.
Mr. Clay. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Mr. Morial. So, the undercount, I think, if we want to
narrowly focus this year on what it is necessary to ensure a
more complete count, the enumerator portion and the advertising
campaign have to be energized.
This committee has to do oversight. I encourage when the
census director comes to get to the bottom line on where they
are on the hiring of the enumerators because this is the point.
Sixty percent--this is the Census Bureau's research--60
percent of African Americans are going to rely on the door-
knocker to provide information, notwithstanding the internet,
notwithstanding the telephone, notwithstanding the paper form.
And the numbers for the overall population are in the 40 to
50 percent range. So, the enumerator portion is so critical and
if they don't hire the people that they need to hire--see, in
2010 when they were hiring enumerators we were in a recession.
Now the situation is different.
Second, in 2010, you could go to a census office and apply
for a job. Now you have got to go online. So, all of these
barriers. We need to get to the bottom line in terms of where
it is in order to ensure----
Mr. Clay. And I appreciate that response. In your opening
remarks you mentioned the media plan. Can you talk about your
concerns with the media plan?
Mr. Morial. So, right now, the media campaign--we have had
a chance to look at some of the--get a early look at some of
the commercials that are going to be focused on the African-
American community and they--some of them are pretty good.
However, if the advertising stops when the enumerator
followup portion of the census begins to take place, then there
is no advertising telling--people could have the perception
that the census is over.
So, they need to expand the advertising for another, what
is it, 45 or so, 60 days so that you have advertising taking
place during the entire period that people have the opportunity
to respond to the census.
This is an alignment issue. So, again, I encourage, and it
is also necessary for the African American population that the
advertising not overly rely on digital ads, that it include
radio, it include community newspapers, and the like.
Mr. Clay. Print. Yes.
Mr. Morial. So, I encourage you to probe this with the
Census Bureau.
Mr. Clay. My time is up. But I hope my friend from North
Carolina understands that the key is communication with the
public.
So, I yield back.
Mr. Meadows. I will never--I will leave it there.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman from the great state of
North Carolina is recognized for five minutes----
Mr. Meadows. I thank--I thank the chairwoman.
I thank the gentleman from Missouri----
Chairwoman Maloney.--for questions.
Mr. Meadows [continuing]. For his congenial way of where he
communicates. I miss his red glasses. I don't see your red
glasses so--you have got gray ones. All right.
So, let me get to the bottom line on all of this and,
hopefully, will offer a little bit of help.
I have conducted more census hearings probably than any
other Member of Congress in the previous administration and
this one. What I do want to get is an accurate count and so I
am going to offer a few things that maybe some of you can
consider.
Mr. Allis--is it Allis? Here is one of the things I would
ask you to do. From the Native American standpoint, if you will
help us with the rolls of a few tribes where we can do some
sampling to make sure we are reaching those underserved areas.
I happen to have--I believe I had the first Congressional
Office on Tribal Lands in the history of our country. I have
the eastern band of the Cherokee Indians in my--in my district
that I am--I proudly acknowledge their sovereign right.
So, if you will do that and get that to us, we will be glad
to do that. I am sure I can find some members on the other side
of the aisle to work with us.
One of the concerns I have, just bluntly, is reaching those
underserved areas because the internet is not available.
You know, we were talking about 5G yesterday. In most of my
district I would just like 1G, let alone 5G. So, if you will do
that I would appreciate that.
Mr. Morial, one of the areas that I think that is key is if
there is false information that is being put out there in
predominantly urban areas that is not something that I have an
expertise on.
But if you will get that to us, here is--here is what I
would ask of you. I have actually traveled under the previous
administration with enumerators that were actually out in the
field, one of the few members to have done that. I understand
the challenges.
But the other thing is TV advertising is not going to reach
the people that we need to reach and I think all of you will
agree with that. It just doesn't do it.
So, what I would ask you to do is to come up with something
where we can do direct text messaging. You know, it is
interesting.
They may not have internet service. They may--but they
eventually come into contact most with one of these and where
we can do that with credible sources I am willing to work with
you.
We have spent over $500 million trying to do an outreach.
Some of that has been--well, not misappropriated but
misallocated in terms of concentrating in certain areas.
I am willing to work with all of you on that particular
issue. Mr. Moore, you are giving us a great roadmap for rural
America. But you are not getting any Federal funding, are you?
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Mr. Meadows. How many of you are getting any Federal
funding as it--either directly or indirectly with your groups
in terms of outreach? Raise the hands. Anybody? All right.
Well, we are spending $500 million on outreach so here is
what I--and my commitment to each one of you is that if you
will reach out to me I will work with the committee.
But we will work with the Commerce Department because I met
with them more times than I care to mention over trying to get
an accurate count.
If you will do that--Mr. Morial, if you will do that I will
help you. Mr. Allis, if you will help us with Native American.
Certainly, some of the other areas I don't have as much
expertise. We don't have a large Asian population in western
North Carolina.
But at the same time, if you--I am sincere about getting an
accurate count. You know, when we start to focus on the
citizenship question we are making--we are making drastic
errors and, Mr. Morial, I think you will agree with this.
We have undercounted in 1970. We undercounted in 1980. We
undercounted in 1990. We undercounted in 2000. There was a
citizenship question then and to suggest that somehow it is
uniquely to 2020 is just not accurate.
I mean, I am a numbers guy and I am willing to work with
you. But if you all will work with us on how we can reach these
underserved and hard-to-reach communities, we will get an
accurate count.
Are you all willing to do that?
Mr. Morial. I am, you know, open. I think that--when the
census director is here I think the extent and the character
and the magnitude of their outreach should be probed by the
committee.
Mr. Meadows. Well, I will probe it. But let me just tell
you, I had the previous census director under President Obama
here and I expressed great concerns that we were not going to
be ready and I didn't want there to be egg on my face because
they were not asking for enough money.
We have funded the census at levels that are unprecedented.
So, it is not a problem of money. It is a problem of
allocation, and if all of you will agree to help us with that,
I am willing to call a five-alarm fire to make it work.
Mr. Morial. I do want to do this because I want to make the
record clear. The Census Bureau does not fund community-based
outreach.
Mr. Meadows. We have got $500 million. I beg to differ.
Mr. Morial. They don't do a thing to fund----
Mr. Meadows. I can tell you, we work with----
Mr. Morial. They don't fund organizations that do
community-based outreach. They fund their own people.
Mr. Meadows. But we fund groups to actually be the--on part
of it--I can promise you--as a line item. I have actually
talked to the groups. And so we will be glad to clarify that.
Mr. Morial. None of us, huh?
Chairwoman Maloney. I now recognize Congressman Connolly
from Virginia for questions.
Mr. Connolly. I thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
And welcome to our panel. I want to go back to an assertion
made earlier and ask particularly you, Mr. Yang, to respond
because the ranking member would have you believe that for some
mystical reason Democrats just don't like this question about
citizenship and it is a harmless question and it is a piece of
data we really need.
I thought I heard from your testimony that maybe there was
a more malign purpose behind adding a question that formerly
has not been asked in the census survey, as I understand it,
since 1950.
And it wasn't Democrats who objected, ultimately. It was a
court of law. It was a Federal judge who decided that--and he
was upheld by the Supreme Court, ultimately, because the
Commerce Department in its eagerness to add this question,
which we now know from the release of emails, was political
inspired to depress and suppress cooperation with the census
deliberately to create an undercount of minority populations,
especially ones you were talking about and maybe you represent,
Mr. Yang.
The fastest growing population, certainly, in my district
is Asian American and the fastest piece of that is South Asian.
We want everyone counted, as the chairman said in her
opening statement, citizen and noncitizen. The Constitution
requires it and fairness demands it.
So, I just want to give you an opportunity. I mean, is this
some conspiracy by one of the two political parties to avoid
getting data on what otherwise ought to be a simple analytical
tool--a question about your citizenship status?
Mr. Yang. Thank you, Mr. Connolly, for that question and I
must say that I am proud to be a constituent of your
jurisdiction.
Mr. Connolly. God bless you.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Yang. This goes to what Mr. Vargas was saying. Let me
correct the record first with respect to the citizenship
question.
It is incorrect to say that the citizenship question has
appeared on every decennial census for 200 years.
Mr. Connolly. Correct.
Mr. Yang. That is factually incorrect. It has appeared on
the American Community Survey which, as Mr. Vargas has
testified, is a completely different instrument that has been
tested.
Mr. Connolly. And doesn't go to every household.
Mr. Yang. And does not go to every household. It goes to
three percent of all households.
Mr. Connolly. Let me just interrupt, if I may, Mr. Yang, to
establish your point. Am I correct? The last time it was on the
actual census survey was 1950.
Mr. Yang. On the decennial survey was 1950. That is
correct.
Mr. Connolly. Yes. So, the idea that it is just customary
and ordinary is flat out false. I mean, 1950 is 25 years ago?
[Laughter.]
Mr. Yang. If we can only wish. That is--that is correct.
That is correct. Again, the concerns that we expressed in
litigation and all our groups expressed was that this question
was proposed with no testing and already understanding the
Census Bureau itself as research had already presented to us
that there was a fear within the immigrant community about
information that was being collected about them.
So, to suggest that this question should be--just be
introduced willy nilly without any testing caused great concern
to us.
Certainly, we--during the course of litigation, as is
public now, there have been documents that have been uncovered
from Mr. Hofeller that the people testified to earlier--
addressed earlier with respect to the fact that including the
citizenship question could cause the--be politically
advantageous to non-Hispanic whites and, certainly, for my
community, Mr. Vargas's community, and many of our communities.
That is a deeply troubling fact.
Mr. Connolly. You also raised the question of other
languages and although, clearly, an effort has been made to try
to expand the number of languages in which the census is
presented, given the pluralistic nature of America and the
diversity of so many of our communities, including the one you
and I live in, where over 120 languages are spoken, what do you
recommend we try to do to maximize participation and get over
the language barrier?
Mr. Yang. Well, thank you for that, and I would certainly
take Representative Meadows up on his offer to work with him
with respect to our community.
It is ultimately the objective for the decennial census to
ensure that we have a fair and accurate count of all of
America.
What I would offer is even closer coordination with the
Census Bureau. We have talked about some of the different
aspects in which closer coordination could be helpful.
One of the benefits of technology is that we will have
really real-time information about jurisdictions in areas that
are not responding at a rate that we would want.
And so at that point community organizations should work
with the Census Bureau to figure out what is the best strategy
to followup with those communities and that is not a device
that would have been available in 2010 or 2000 to the robust
degree that we have now.
With respect to languages, again, it is with trusted
messengers. Mr. Vargas spoke very eloquently about a number of
them.
I would add one more, which is minister, pastors, our
churches, and ensuring that they are part of that trusted
messenger community that can get accurate information in
language information for many of these churches to those
communities in a way in which they would respond.
Mr. Connolly. I thank you. My time is up.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
Mr. Hice--Congressman Hice of Georgia is recognized for
five minutes for questions.
Mr. Hice. I thank the Chair.
I would like to begin by thanking each of the panelists for
being here. But, Mr. Moore, you are doing a fantastic job in
South Georgia and I am deeply grateful for the leadership that
you are exhibiting there.
And, Madam Chair, I would like to ask unanimous consent to
add to the record--he had mentioned a PowerPoint presentation
that none of us got to see.
But I would ask unanimous consent for that to be added.
Chairwoman Maloney. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Hice. Thank you.
It is interesting to me that we are coming to--all of us, I
think, on both sides of the aisle agree that what is most
important is to get an accurate count.
Yet, what seems to hijack every one of these census
hearings is the citizenship question and I, again, would assume
that everyone in this room would agree it is important for us
as a country to know how many people here who are citizens.
That is about as basic as you can get. It is important for
us to have that information. How we go about getting it is--I
supposed there is multiple ways for that to be done. But what I
get annoyed at is how that issue is used really to attack the
president and I don't think that is fair.
I think that is unnecessary and there is no reason for us
to create an atmosphere of attacking the president on something
constitutionally based as the census is.
I would just urge my colleagues on the other side to just
take the politics out of this and let us try to get to the
issue of an accurate count.
Mr. Moore, with that, I am grateful for the work that you
are doing in south Georgia. Just from a broad perspective, how
important is the impact in rural communities to having an
accurate census?
Mr. Moore. Thank you, Congressman. It is critical,
especially for us. I live in a community that has a 46,000
population. I have taken notes from all of our speakers and we
are all working, I think, on the same primary goal.
Colquitt County is a large agricultural community. We have
a large migrant Hispanic population and one thing that really
attributed to our success in 2010 as we had a lady named Bertha
Riojas that worked with County Extension and she did prenatal
programs, food and nutrition programs, finance programs with a
lot of the migrant populations and they trust Bertha.
So, she was on our Complete Count Committee and if she told
them it was something that they needed to do, they participated
in the census.
I think they have even learned from that so this year on
the committee they have got representatives from Guatemala and
Honduran, Haitian, different subcultures within that group.
But it is critical. We talked about it briefly early on.
The census data impacts everything that we do from an economic
development perspective.
Mr. Hice. OK. Hit on that. From an economic development
perspective, how does the census economic development?
Mr. Moore. It provides jobs. I mean, I have been in
economic development for 25 years. If you have got an industry
that is looking at your community they are going to want to
make sure that they have people there that can work. They are
going to want to go to communities that are growing, have good
education, good health care and can provide the workers that
they need.
If you are looking at opening up a restaurant or a dress
shop, you are going to want to make sure you have consumers
that can purchase your goods. They are going to want to go to
communities that are growing.
And I am extremely competitive. I always wanted to win the
deal but I always wanted all of my neighbors and everyone
around me to do well, too, because companies don't look at
county lines.
They don't look at city lines. They look at market draws.
So, for a work force perspective, we had 21,000 workers in
Colquitt County but we had 185,000 workers within a 30-minute
drive and that is what we sold.
So, it is critical--again, education, health care, social
programs, economic development, your grant data for roads,
water, sewer, bridges. Anything you do ties back to economic
development.
Mr. Hice. So, I think it is important for all of us to
understand that the census has a great impact not only just on
our country but on rural communities in particular.
So, with that and with the move this go around to go more
online oriented, what is the absence of broadband in so many
rural communities--what kind of impact will that have in
getting an accurate count?
Mr. Moore. With us, we have worked on the awareness and
education statewide, really. We know which areas don't have
broadband. We already know that they are going to get a written
form in that initial mailing that comes out on March 12.
They will also get another written form in the fifth
mailing that will come back out on April 8 and we have also
made arrangements for citizens--I mean, we have talked about
Wednesday night suppers at church having tablets there, having
computers there that people can fill out the forms, festivals
having opportunities to fill out the forms.
Again, your libraries, your farm bureau, your city council,
county commission, anywhere that people congregate. And making
it easy for them. I think that is what is really critical.
If you explain why the census is important to them, their
families, and their community and tell them what it is and what
it isn't, most people are going to voluntarily fill it out.
I heard some low numbers earlier as far as response rates
before people come to the doors. We have got maps on all 159
counties and many of our counties have gotten 80, 85 percent
voluntary response, which is what you want so you don't have to
send the enumerators door by door unless we have a really low
turnout and low response rate.
Mr. Hice. Thank you. I yield.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you very much.
I will now call on Mr. Krishnamoorthi of Illinois for five
minutes for questions.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Great. Thank you so much, Chairwoman
Maloney and Ranking Member Jordan, for calling this committee
hearing. Thank you to our panelists for being here.
I am so glad that all of you are so committed to an
accurate census for 2020. I think one very important
institution for having an accurate census are our local public
libraries.
My family and I are big fans of local public libraries.
With three kids you have to be--14, 10 and 3. I joke that with
a teenager and a toddler I am ready for anything in Congress.
But we have a few public libraries in our area--Gail Bordon
Public Library, Bloomingdale Public Library, and the Schaumburg
Township District Library that are doing an excellent job of
going above and beyond to make sure that hard-to-count
communities are actually counted during the census.
So, with that, Ms. Gupta, can you speak to the services
offered at many public libraries that could help hard-to-count
communities respond to the census online such as computers and
wifi access?
Ms. Gupta. Yes. The libraries are actually all over the
country some of the most critical partners and institutions
rooted in local communities to help get public education out
and be providing services to communities around actually
filling out the census and the American Library Association has
been working with our coalition and members of this committee
regarding the Bureau's plan for mobile questionnaire assistance
centers and other key issues.
We have expressed some concern about what the Bureau is
doing around kind of the lack of information that we have
around where those mobile questionnaire assistance centers are
going to be.
But the libraries have been incredibly important and we
know--we have a map. The community map actually shows around
the country where libraries are in hard-to-count communities.
So, we can actually do very targeted outreach. The Bureau
can do very targeted outreach based on mapping literally at--
within hard-to-count communities about how libraries can play a
really critical role.
But we have to make sure the Bureau is actually equipped to
do that.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Great.
Mr. Yang, in my district library is leading the census
outreach efforts there, have partnered with local schools where
over 100 languages are spoken in our local public schools.
What are the--what are some of the challenges you see in
counting people in places like my district where there is such
a wide diversity of languages spoken and how do libraries help
facilitate?
Mr. Yang. Well, certainly, libraries, and then you are
absolutely right, public schools will play an important role.
Oftentimes, public schools, because school districts because
they know the composition of their students, which is the
emerging population for our entire country, will be able to
tailor their language needs even more specifically.
So, for example, my school district offers many languages
that are not offered by the Census Bureau. So, working with
those schools--I, like you, have young children--I rely on what
we call the Thursday folder that comes home with my student.
Even if I don't read all the mail that comes with respect
to advertisements, et cetera, I will read everything that comes
for my child that is provided by my teacher.
So, if they have statistics in schools' classes, if they
have other programs that allow census information, and I know
that the Bureau is working with the schools to do things along
those lines along with the libraries to make sure that
information goes, again, from trusted messengers. That will go
a long way toward helping.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Great.
Mr. Vargas, you know, one of the things that we fear
because of the presence of the citizenship question or the
mention of it previously is kind of the fear of institutions.
Do you sense that maybe immigrant communities might be more
apprehensive or fearful of using their local public libraries
in light of all the discussion around the citizenship question?
Mr. Vargas. Congressman, I have not seen any data about
immigrant perception of public libraries. But I have seen data
where immigrants do find credible messengers among
schoolteachers, health care providers, local community leaders,
faith leaders.
And so we need to engage those leaders in our communities
as census Ambassadors as well.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And how are we doing that, by the way?
Mr. Vargas. Well, we are doing it ourselves and through the
efforts that each of these organizations represented here are
launching their own campaigns in our communities and we are
closely coordinating with the Census Bureau.
What we need also is for the Census Bureau itself, for
their staff--because they have the resources. We don't. And
they have $500 million that they are allocating to a campaign.
That campaign should, clearly, educate the American public
about what will not be asked on the census so that we can help
them overcome the fear about providing the government with
information that they perceive might be used against them.
So, we need the power of the Census Bureau's resources to
do a much more thorough education job of the American public so
that they can be confident in participating in the census.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Great. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Chairwoman.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
Mr. Comer of Kentucky is recognized for five minutes for
questioning.
Mr. Comer. Thank you, and before I begin my questioning
about my concern for an undercount in rural America, especially
rural Kentucky, Madame Chairwoman, with all due respect, I
wanted to correct an inaccurate statement that you made with
regards to the president wanting an inaccurate count--he didn't
want an accurate count.
That is not true. The president represents the majority of
working taxpaying Americans who simply want to know how many
citizens reside in the United States who are not legal American
citizens.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the final count.
Every person residing in the United States will be counted in
the census and that will apply to the Electoral College.
So, I wanted to correct that inaccurate statement, and I
also want to shift gears and talk about my concern for an
undercount in rural America.
A 2016 American Community Survey showed my congressional
district, the 1st congressional District of Kentucky, as having
the greatest share of households with no internet subscription
or only dial-up connection.
I am sad to say 29 percent of the households in my
congressional district, which is extremely rural, have either
no internet subscription or dial-up connection.
That is an unfortunate situation that I place a lot of
blame on the last two Kentucky gubernatorial administrations
but it is something that my office is working very hard on.
Whether it is the Farm Bill or any other piece of legislation
that deals with funding for rural internet access, that is
something that we strongly supported in my congressional
office.
But as the 2020 census approaches, I echo the concerns that
others have raised here about constituents being reached in
hard-to-count areas, especially rural America.
The 2020 census is the first time that Americans will be
able to respond using the internet and I want to ensure that
those with lack of internet and broadband connectivity aren't
left out because I think we would all agree that rural America,
where the overwhelming majority of lack of internet is, is
overwhelmingly Republican.
And we have heard a lot of people express concerns about an
undercount in different communities and I just want to echo my
concern about an undercount in rural America.
I also have learned that the most difficult population to
accurately count are children under the age of five.
Mr. Moore, why do you believe children are undercounted in
rural communities?
Mr. Moore. I think it could be any community and one--and
this isn't a real example but it is one that is realistic--you
may have a single mother that has three children in her
household and her landlord may think there is only one child in
that house.
So, when they get that question and it asks how many people
are living in the house they may either not answer at all or
not be accurate on it. So, you get an undercount in that
situation.
And where it really impacts us from a community development
level is our schools use that census data for planning.
Mr. Comer. Exactly.
Mr. Moore. So, if they are looking at that census data and
they are expecting a hundred kids to show up for kindergarten
the first day----
Mr. Comer. Right.
Mr. Moore [continuing]. And because we don't have an
accurate census count you have 200 children showing up the
first day, then you have got classroom shortages.
You have got teacher shortages. You don't have enough
books. You don't have enough materials. So, that is just one
example and that is something that we share with other people
so they can try to come up with a way to address that question
if it comes up--you know, why is it important for me to list
everybody in my household.
That is why it is critical that you have, again, very
diverse large Complete Count Committee that can work with
different demographics in the community that have influence
with them and that know the answers to the questions.
And I think we have all said it. If people know what it is
and what it isn't, most people are going to voluntarily fill
out the census.
Mr. Comer. Right.
Mr. Moore. It is that fear that keeps them from
participating voluntarily.
Mr. Comer. You mentioned in your testimony the efforts that
you have made in Georgia about recruiting census workers and I
just had someone in my district office in Tompkinsville trying
to recruit more workers for the--for the census.
My last question--and my time is running out--what is being
done to prevent fraud from census takers, either intentionally
over counting or intentionally undercounting residents?
Because I know there are a lot of groups in America that
are--that are really doing their best effort, and we are too,
to try to get every single person counted, for obvious reasons.
Mr. Moore. U.S. census workers are credentialed and I can't
necessarily or accurately address that question. But I will
tell you something that I share with many of our smaller
communities, and do it briefly. I know we are over time.
In 2010, Colquitt County didn't but a lot of our smaller
rural communities had census takers from Atlanta, from
Birmingham, and from out of state that were in our communities
walking door to door.
That is not a good thing because they are not familiar with
the community or the neighborhoods and, honestly, they are not
vested.
So, what we did in 2010 in Colquitt and doing throughout
Georgia right now is encouraging all of our Complete Count
Committees to come up with lists of potential employees and
volunteers that can apply for those jobs.
That way you have got somebody local that is vested. They
know how important it is for their community. They know the
neighborhoods better.
I think somebody mentioned not going into a neighborhood
because they didn't feel safe. You will have a lot higher
response rate if you get local people hired in those positions.
Mr. Comer. Exactly. I agree completely.
Well, thank you very much.
And, Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
Mr. Raskin of Maryland is recognized for questions from
five minutes.
Mr. Raskin. Madam Chair, thank you very much and thanks for
calling this important hearing.
Successful voter turnout in an election depends on public
trust that people's votes will be counted fairly and a
successful civic turnout in a census also depends on public
trust, specifically trust that our information will be kept
secure and that nothing that we write down, no information we
provide, will be used against us.
This trust challenge is a difficult one in an age of social
media-drive conspiracy theories and Russia propaganda campaigns
to sow distrust among Americans in our society and just the
background levels of paranoia about government and politics.
So, that places an extra burden on government not only to
act with complete integrity and transparency but also to bring
a positive message about democratic government and
constitutionally established practices like the census to the
people.
So, Ms. Gupta, let me start with you. How do you think a
lack of trust in the privacy and security of the census could
lead to an undercount in American communities?
Ms. Gupta. Well, I think there is no question that a lack
of trust in privacy could have people basically chill
participation in the census if they feel that their data will
be misused or turned over to other government agencies and the
like. It is why all of our organizations sitting at the table
have done so much public education.
We believe the Bureau needs to do more public education
about the existing Federal laws, very robust, that safeguard
the confidentiality of census data.
The law is clear as day. But as several of my colleagues
have said, the specter of the citizenship question really
caused people to have even greater mistrust about what the
motives were for the census and that is what we are all seeking
in our local communities, in our campaigns, to overcome.
There are very good answers, as I said. The Federal law
could not be clearer.
Mr. Raskin. In 2018, the Census Bureau conducted a survey
focusing on hard-to-count communities, which found that 28
percent of respondents were very concerned or extremely
concerned that their answers on the census would not be kept
confidential and 22 percent, or more than one in five, were
very or extremely concerned that their answers could somehow be
used against them.
And as you are pointing out, none of those things can
happen under the law and we want to send the message to people
that no information that you put on the census can be used
against you and it is secure and it is confidential.
Madam Chair, I ask unanimous consent for the report of the
Census Bureau to be entered into the record. I brought a copy
with me today.
Chairwoman Maloney. Without objection.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Morial, what kinds of confidentiality
concerns do you think might keep some of your constituents or
former constituents from filling out a census form?
Mr. Morial. I think confidentiality concerns, particularly
in the age of the internet and the age of social media, are
elevated because of what occurred in the 2016 election, what
people hear about hacking.
It is very important that we push back against that through
public education, through positive messages, to assert that it
is the law that the information that the census collects is
confidential and that it is a violation of the law and it is a
violation of the criminal laws to expose that.
Mr. Raskin. That is great.
Mr. Morial. I think it is important that the census and any
other agencies be vigilant and closely watching and that we
will be closely watching and report anything untoward that we
might sense.
But we have got to encourage confidence by people as to
what the law is to push back against this because it does
undermine people's willingness to participate, as you
mentioned, in all civic processes----
Mr. Raskin. Yes.
Mr. Morial [continuing]. Both being the census and the
like.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Allis, can you describe how trust levels in
the Federal Government in Indian Country might affect census
participation specifically there?
Mr. Allis. Yes. Thank you, Congressman, for that question.
So, there is no mystery and everybody knows or at least it
is widely known that historically Indian Country has had a
little bit of distrust toward the Federal Government, given the
way the government has treated American Indians for the past
200 years.
The trust level is impacted negatively by the lack of
proper attention given to educating and making the American
Indian and Alaska Native population understand the purposes of
the census--what it can do, what it can't do, how to properly
fill out questionnaires.
And even more important is the communicators that interact
with Indian Country--are they--are they knowledgeable enough to
understand the culture and traditions in an appropriate manner
to be able to communicate and navigate within a very unique
population.
When you get folks that don't have that familiarity, they
are not trusted voices.
Mr. Raskin. Well, do you think the Census Bureau is
attentive to that concern that you are raising?
Mr. Allis. They have identified that as an issue, okay, in
their own background. But we have yet to see if they have--we
are concerned about the proper resources when it comes to
number of enumerators, who they are, are they prepared to go
out there and be able to accurately interact with the
community.
As we have heard from some of the others, we know that
applying for these jobs in this particular has become much more
difficult.
It is online. It is a longer process. It is a longer
vetting period, and we are not certain that this particular
trust aspect within Indian Country will be addressed properly
because of that.
Mr. Raskin. OK. I think my time has expired.
I yield back, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
Mr. Grothman of Wisconsin is recognized for five minutes
for questions.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you.
The first point I would like to make, and I am a little bit
offended here. I think one of our witnesses today said
President Trump is anti-immigrant.
In the most recent year available we had 756,000 people
sworn in this country legally, which is the highest it has been
in several years. And to call a president anti-immigrant when
that happens is just a ridiculous partisan slap and not true.
I believe it was Mr. Vargas who said--I am not sure--but at
least in my district people of--whose ancestors are south of
the border I can think of a lot of them who are very pro-
immigrant but do not want people breaking the law.
And insofar as you feel that because you are--represent
something called the National Association of Latino Elected and
Appointed Officials, I just want to make it clear to anybody
else listening out there today that at least in my district
people of descent south of the border do believe in obeying the
laws and they would object to the idea that you would imply
that President Trump is anti-immigrant because he is for
enforcing the laws.
Now, my next comment is seeing the groups we have before us
today I think there is an effort in this country to permanently
divide America by having people obsess over their ancestry.
There are conflicts here in this building. There are
conflicts by occupation, as people want to, you know, have more
or less credentialism.
Gun owners are always under attack. I think about a year
ago the Knights of Columbus were under attack. We always have
the ongoing conflict between taxpayers and tax takers.
But I think when we set up so many groups like this it
creates a false narrative that we have going on in America is
disagreement by racial background. I disagree with that.
But thinking about that, over time I think, due to
intermarriage, we are going to have--it is going to become more
apparent that there is less and less of that sort of conflict
here and I am going to ask you folks when I fill out the census
form or when somebody else fills out the census form how
exactly they should fill it out when you have a mixed
background.
You know, I can think of several people here who--that I
know are, say, one-half Latin and one-half direct European in
ancestry. How should you fill out the form if that is your
background? We will ask Mr.--Ms. Gupta. We will ask her. Half-
half. How do you fill out the form?
Ms. Gupta. The census allows you to self-identify as to
your question around racial background and ethnic background.
Mr. Grothman. So, in other words, there is no rule.
I will give you an extreme example. OK. We have a woman
running for president right now, Elizabeth Warren. She was very
proud.
She held a press conference that she was, whatever, 1/64th
Native American and, apparently, she used that when she applied
for a job a while back.
Do you think it is appropriate that she would fill out the
form that she is Native American?
Ms. Gupta. The census permits self-identification.
Mr. Grothman. Do you think it is okay, though?
Ms. Gupta. I think it should be accurate information.
Mr. Grothman. Do you think that is accurate?
Ms. Gupta. That self-identification is accurate
information.
Mr. Grothman. OK. Well, we will ask Mr. Allis. To be a
member of a tribe--I don't know about your tribe but a lot of
tribes you have to be at least one-quarter the background of
that tribe. But it means you are three-quarters something else.
If somebody who is one-quarter Native American ancestry and
three-quarters European ancestry would it be appropriate for
them to fill it out European and would it be appropriate to
fill them out Native American or how should they fill that out?
Mr. Allis. So, my tribe is located just north of your
district.
Mr. Grothman. Yes, I know. I know.
Mr. Allis. And if you are a member of a federally
recognized tribe you have the absolute right to represent
yourself as a Native American.
As I--as the other of my colleagues on the panel have
accurately stated and which the number of consultations that
NCAI has conducted or has hosted with Census Bureau when that
question has come up within Indian Country audiences, the
answer has been you self-identify in a manner that you think is
appropriate, which--it has caused some level of confusion.
OK. But it is the standard statement that is made by folks
at the U.S. Census Bureau when addressing that particular
question.
And I will--and I will make a little adjustment to or
comment--trying to understand. There is no difference in a
particular tribe. If you are a tribal member and you are
unenrolled and you are enrolled and you are a quarter member or
a three-quarters member, you are a tribal member.
Mr. Grothman. Right. I understand. I am just saying the
average American if you--I don't think the average American
race obsesses like some people here but the average American, I
think--if you had a friend who was three-quarters European
ancestry and one-quarter Native American, I don't know, that
they--okay, thank you.
Mr. Yang. Can I just clarify something very quickly?
You can check as many categories as you want, too. It is
self-identification. But you can check multiple categories if
you identify in that manner.
Mr. Allis. Can I just say one thing about that,
Congressman?
There is a lot of quarter blood American Indians in this
country and most of the rolls go back to you have to trace
somebody back to a roll as far back as the late 1800's. So, we
are talking about three to four different generations.
So, Congressman, I would suggest that a quarter blood over
three to four or five different generations is a significant
amount of American Indian blood in any particular person.
So, whether somebody is a quarter Indian or three-quarters
something else is a really kind of interesting way to look at
it to question how somebody would identify themselves.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney. The Chair now recognizes Congressman
Sarbanes from Maryland for questions for five minutes.
Mr. Sarbanes. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank
everybody on the panel. This is a really, really critical
discussion we are having today in many respects.
Talking about the importance of being counted is talking
about empowerment and justice, dignity and respect.
Ms. Gupta, you are here a lot testifying and you are here
because the Leadership Conference provides fundamental advocacy
on these important issues of empowerment. I want to thank you
for that.
We have had the opportunity of working closely together on
efforts to protect and reform our democracy. I thank you for
it, especially as it relates to voter suppression and it occurs
to me that voter suppression and attempts to reduce census
participation are really two sides of the same coin. They are
about pushing people, oftentimes minority communities, out of
our democracy when we need to be pulling them into our
democracy.
And if you think about it, the two most fundamental ways or
opportunities that people in this country have at empowerment
or to be counted at the polls and to be counted in the census.
That is the way somebody is able to stand up and say, here
I am. I count. I matter. My voice is important.
So, I am very concerned about something that I believe you
referenced in your testimony, at least in your written
testimony, which is the potential for census-related
disinformation efforts.
We talked about the importance of getting good education
and information out there and why we need to lean on that as
strongly as we possibly can.
But we also have to combat disinformation when it comes to
the census process.
Could you discuss what census-related disinformation could
look like, how it can be spread, and what the negative effects
of it might be?
Ms. Gupta. Thank you, Congressman, and thank you for your
leadership on so many of these issues.
So, we have been deeply concerned about census-related
disinformation, which really seeks to persuade masses of people
to kind of not participate in the count and disinformation is
usually pushed by bad actors with trying to propagate false
information to make that viral to scare people away from
participating and it can contain false information about who
can participate, about when to participate, about how to
participate, and it can spread through social media and
networks.
The negative effect can be, literally, that countless
people count themselves out, meaning that they do not fill out
the census as a result and they will then, therefore, miss out
on Federal representation, on being represented in state
districts and on the--you know, being counted for purposes of
schools and hospitals and health care and the like.
We have been--many of our groups have been very actively
working with social media companies around ensuring that they
have as--that they are developing policies to prevent census
interference right now and I can--I can say more about that.
Mr. Sarbanes. Yes, let me ask you about that because I
gather that last month Facebook announced a new policy on
census interference on its platform--disinformation being
spread on its platform and said it is not going to allow those
kinds of misleading posts that would reduce census
participation.
Can you give me a sense of how you think that policy is,
whether it is strong enough, whether others can be invited into
taking similar kinds of action on these digital platforms?
Ms. Gupta. Yes. The Leadership Conference and other civil
rights groups actually pushed very vigorously with Facebook at
the very highest level of the company to ensure and gave very
detailed input on what would be required to actually have a
rigorous and robust census interference policy.
We commended Facebook when they announced their policy for
developing, really, what to date is the most comprehensive
policy in the sector for combating census interference.
As you know, we have not been commending Facebook for very
much recently but that was a significant achievement.
Facebook announced that they will--that any content that
violates their census interference policy will be allowed--will
not be allowed to remain on the platforms as newsworthy, even
if it is posted by a politician and that was a pretty
significant step for the company.
They have created an enforcement kind of protocol and we
want to make sure, though, that they are going to continue to
engage with stakeholders in meaningful ways such as hosting an
external census working group to complement their internal
efforts and we have asked the company to share information that
they are getting about the targets of particular disinformation
campaigns so that the Bureau--the Census Bureau and our
organizations can then come in and flood the zone with the
accurate information to make sure nobody is lost as a result.
Google and Twitter have both made more general statements
that they will treat the census like an election. But we have
yet to see the kind of detailed policies that we need to see
from them and our hope, now that Facebook has come out with
this, is that all social media companies are going to follow--
are going to follow suit and we are going to be very, very
active in trying to push that both for the census and
elections.
Mr. Sarbanes. Thank you very much--my time is up--again,
for the work of the leadership, to all on the panel.
And, Madam Chair, it might be a good idea for us at some
point to have a hearing where we can see what the feedback is
on what these digital platforms are discovering in terms of
census interference.
With that, I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. That is an excellent idea. We will
followup on it.
Mr. Cloud of Texas is recognized or five minutes for
questions.
Mr. Meadows. Madam Chairman, I have got one point of
clarification before--if that is all right with you.
Chairwoman Maloney. It is all right with me if it is all
right with Mr. Cloud. Yes, you--the gentleman is----
Mr. Meadows. Well----
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman is recognized----
Mr. Meadows. OK. Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney.--for your point of information.
Mr. Meadows. I think under my questioning earlier I talked
about Federal funding and I think it was taken in one context,
not the other. And so I don't--I don't want any of our
witnesses to perjure themselves.
So, if they would just get with the committee to make sure
that you make a full disclosure on Federal funding so it
doesn't--I think you were answering what I intended the
question to be.
But I know a number of you get Federal funding, and so you
may want to clarify that with the committee.
I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. I thank the gentleman.
Mr. Cloud is recognized for five minutes.
Mr. Cloud. Thank you, Chairwoman, Ranking Member, for
holding this hearing. It is a good for us to start off this
year on a topic that is very important to our oversight duties.
It is a key function of our republic, a republic of the
people, by the people, for the people of having representative
government.
And I appreciate the fact that everybody here is unanimous
in the understanding that it is vitally important that we count
every individual and that we do our due diligence to make sure
that happens.
Mr. Moore, I really--you know, I come from Texas and, of
course, I think 191 of our 254 counties is rural. The vast
majority of my district is rural including, you know, a little
town like Taft where the population is about 2,918 people and I
had the privilege of visiting there the other day.
I appreciate all the efforts that you have done, the
creative ways that you have come up with, talking about potluck
dinners on Wednesday and I would just ask that if you could
invite us to one of those potluck dinners I would appreciate
it. That is good home cooking. So----
[Laughter.]
Mr. Moore. We would love to.
Mr. Cloud. I wanted to ask Mr. Morial, do you have anything
to add to creative ideas what you, your organization, may be
doing to help reach rural counties and maybe some of the
differences in the challenges versus urban counties?
Mr. Morial. So, there is a substantial segment of the
African-American population in the United States that is rural.
It is not completely urban. There is a substantial part that is
suburban.
In fact, there are probably more African Americans living
in suburban America today than in urban America today. There
has been a dramatic shift.
We have convened some 60 organizations under the banner of
the Black Census Roundtable and through those efforts and they
include people that reach urban communities, a number of civil
rights organizations have extensive networks in rural
communities.
So, we are using this community-based activation strategy
to publicly educate about the importance of the census, what
the purpose of the census is for, why the census is a right for
people to participate and----
Mr. Cloud. Do you have--I am sorry, moving along on time.
Mr. Morial. Yes, well----
Mr. Cloud. Do you have any little practical nuggets like
Mr. Moore had on--you know, he was talking about coloring pages
in education schools and----
Mr. Morial. I endorse all--I mean, all of the above. I
think what Mr. Moore has been able to do is to identify when a
local government puts its money and its resources behind the
census what is essential to making the census work is the work
of local governments, states, cities, counties, economic
development agencies, and school districts and the like.
You know, in our instance we are encouraging our local
affiliates to participate in these local efforts, in these
local Complete Count Committees----
Mr. Cloud. Thanks.
Mr. Morial [continuing]. In an effort to do that. So,----
Mr. Cloud. If I can move on. I appreciate your thoughts.
Mr. Yang, you mentioned the constitutional responsibility
of what the Constitution asks and you mentioned that anything
beyond that that would deter from that mandate that we
shouldn't ask. Is that fair? What does the Constitution require
us to ask?
Mr. Yang. Well, the Constitution requires us to assess a
fair and accurate count of all persons in the United States
and----
Mr. Cloud. That is to count each individual, right?
Mr. Yang. All----
Mr. Cloud. Mr. Vargas, you agreed with that as well, right?
Mr. Vargas. Yes, I do. In fact, the Constitution only
requires an enumeration of the population.
Mr. Cloud. Right. So, it doesn't----
Mr. Vargas. It doesn't require that we ask name, gender,
race, or ethnicity. All it asks is for a head count.
Mr. Cloud. Exactly. Yes. It doesn't require to ask race,
housing status, sex, relationship status, any of those things,
right?
So, would you endorse--not for this one, obviously, it is a
little too late in the game--but going forward, consideration
of a census that just counted what the Constitution required?
Mr. Vargas. There would have to be a conversation about
what then is the role that the American community is serving,
because the data collected by the Census Bureau, that it goes
beyond just a head count is used by all of U.S. policymakers to
determine how to administer policies in the United States. You
need to know how many people are children.
You need to know how many people are men and women. You
need to know how many people have different levels of
education. How you collect those data will depend on what
surveys the Census Bureau uses.
Mr. Cloud. Right.
Mr. Vargas. So, it will be a determination for what purpose
is the decennial census and what is the purpose of the American
Community Survey and other surveys.
Mr. Cloud. There has been a lot of talk about
disinformation and, Mr. Vargas, you said something that
troubled me.
You characterized the administration as being anti-
immigrant, having a campaign against immigrants. And I think
part of this information--disinformation has--you know, we
cannot be conflating the vital need to secure the border and to
mitigate what the cartels are doing in our Nation and
communities like mine against an immigration policy.
Because the truth is--and I ask to submit this for the
record: the Hill article ``Deportations Lower Under Trump
Administration Than Obama,'' and the truth is they were lower
under Bush than Clinton. And so if we could stop the rhetoric I
think it would go really far to dissuading the fear that we see
often.
There is one underserved group that--I think, Mr. Morial,
if you could speak to. We are two years out of Harvey and we
still have a number of displaced individuals. We have housing
that is still being built and people can't come back to
communities.
Do you have a way to deal with that? Do you have any
suggestions for that? Or Mr. Moore?
Mr. Moore. We have had similar issues in southwest Georgia.
Hurricane Michael hit the Panhandle and hit south Georgia and
we still have several of our communities that don't have
residents back in their homes.
So, we are working with all those communities to come up
with a plan to identify where they are staying. It could be
with a friend, a relative, or somewhere else. But we are
definitely trying to make sure that we count those displaced
families.
Mr. Cloud. How do you do that? Do you have any--we can talk
offline, I guess, and get some ideas.
Mr. Moore. We can, but a lot of it is local. Like I said,
every community is different. Everything is local.
Mr. Cloud. Right.
Mr. Moore. But working through churches, working through
schools, working through different organizations that may know
of someone that has been displaced and making sure that they
don't fall through the cracks.
Mr. Cloud. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Mr. Morial. I will add this. I think, just reflecting on
after Hurricane Katrina, the Census Bureau made special efforts
like in instances where they make special efforts to count
homeless people. They send enumerators to where people are.
And so it is important that the Census Bureau work with in
those areas where people have been displaced, whether it is in
Texas or it is in Puerto Rico or anywhere where we have had
hurricanes or fires that they work with local officials.
Those local officials know where the displaced citizens
are--the displaced people are and send enumerators to those
areas. The only way they are going to be counted is through the
use of enumerators if they are not at the customary physical
address where they are.
So, it requires a special effort by the census and we are a
sophisticated knowledgeable society. We know where these events
have taken place. We have a sense of where displaced people may
be to some extent and so it requires a special effort.
Again, I encourage you all to talk to the Census Bureau--
the census director--about that when he comes here in a few
weeks.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
I now yield, at his request, to Mr. Meadows, briefly, out
of order to further clarify his point of clarification.
Mr. Meadows. So, I want to come back to all of you because
my question was not a ``gotcha'' question and I think you all
answered it, trying to answer it earnestly.
When I was talking about Federal funding I was talking
about actually Federal--because some of you receive Federal
funding. We know that.
So, my question would have been accurately do any of you
receive Federal funding directly or indirectly that supports
your census work and that way you can answer in the negative as
you did or at least that is--answer truthfully. So,----
Ms. Gupta. The Leadership Conference does not.
Mr. Yang. Advancing Justice, AAJC, receives no Federal
funding.
Mr. Vargas. NALEO Educational Fund does not receive one
cent of the Federal Government.
Mr. Allis. National Congress of American Indians doesn't
receive Federal funding for census work.
Mr. Morial. We do not receive Federal funding for census
work.
Mr. Moore. No, sir.
Mr. Meadows. I thank the chairwoman for allowing us to
clarify that. Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney. OK. I now yield to Mr. Rouda of
California five minutes for questioning.
Mr. Rouda. Thank you, Chairwoman, and thanks to all of you
for attending today on this very important topic.
Clearly, a proper census count is a rural issue, a suburban
issue, and an urban issue. It is a U.S. issue. We want to make
sure that we count everyone.
I am Representative Rouda. I am from California, Orange
County, California, the 48th District, and in the 48th District
we have an area affectionately known as Little Saigon, which
includes parts of Westminster, Santa Ana, and Garden Grove, and
it is a community that is--I think is an example of hard-to-
count places.
And so what I really want to talk about with all of you is
the goal of having partnership specialists helping out with the
Census Bureau's efforts to make sure that we do get an accurate
count in all communities.
These partnership specialists tend to be trusted local
voices who serve as critical liaisons between the Census Bureau
and the local communities.
Yet, the Census Bureau has reportedly failed to meet its
own deadlines for hiring partnership specialists, raising
questions about the effectiveness of this program.
Ms. Gupta, can you explain why partnership specialists are
so important in increasing census participation in hard-to-
count communities?
Ms. Gupta. Well, the partnership specialists really are
reflective of the local communities. They are often made up of
people from local communities who are going to be much more
trusted messengers as well as door knockers than anyone from
the Federal Government or the Bureau if they have to self-
identify that way.
And so the partnership program the Bureau has historically
relied on its ability to hire and to have a robust partnership
program for that reason and I would say particularly now,
because of, I think, escalated fears and, like, not only of the
citizenship question but the climate for immigrants in this
country right now and that feelings vis-a-vis the Federal
Government that it is more important than ever that there are
full hiring--that full hiring is done and that we have got
those partners in every community, in places like Little
Saigon----
Mr. Rouda. Right.
Ms. Gupta [continuing]. Where there will be language
barriers as well.
Mr. Rouda. Could you elaborate, too? Because some people
would suggest that the advertising campaigns that we do and
websites that provide significant information suffice.
Yet, I think you would recognize and agree that we need
more because these partnership specialists provide a role that
those don't.
Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
Ms. Gupta. Yes. The partnership specialists are doing much
more than just providing public education. They are actually in
community, often should be also trained in language, and my
colleague, John Yang, I think could speak very directly to some
of the challenges that folks in Little Saigon will face without
a robust partnership program.
But they are much more engaged at the local level kind of
interfacing with members of the community in a way that no
amount of media or communications. It is all vital but it is
not going to have the same reach.
Mr. Rouda. So, we know that these partnership specialists
play an incredibly important role in making sure that we get an
accurate census count and the Census Bureau was supposed to
have 1,500 partnership specialists hired by June 30, 2019. They
missed it.
They set a revised target to hire these specialists by
September 1, 2019, and our understanding from the GAO is that
they missed that again in December.
Mr. Vargas, what concerns do you have about the delay in
the hiring of these partnership specialists?
Mr. Vargas. My major concern is that there will not be
sufficient time to make sure that these specialists are
adequately trained to do the job that needs to be done now.
The Census Bureau's media campaign is beginning in January,
just in days. We need specialists on the ground not just hired
but to know what is going on, and one of the challenges we have
had is that we have encountered partnership specialists that
are not well informed themselves about the census operations.
And if I could use this opportunity to make a
recommendation to the Congressman from Texas who is from a
rural community, sir.
My advice would be that you should look at where in your
district will people not receive mailings, because many rural
communities will not get any mail. They will be hand delivered
the census form through an operation called Update Enumerate--
Update Leave, excuse me.
So, what my recommendation is that everybody needs to
understand what the operations the Census Bureau will conduct
in your districts because not everybody will get mail, and
specialists need to be informed about that.
So, my concern is that not only are we behind in the hiring
but there is not enough time to make sure they are fully
trained so that they are accurately informing the community
about census processes.
Mr. Rouda. So, to say that in another way, we want to make
sure not only do we hire those that we have committed to hire
in a timely manner, to make sure they have the appropriate
skill set but equally important that they have the proper
training so they can do their job. Is that correct?
Mr. Vargas. Correct. That is absolutely correct.
Mr. Rouda. Great. Thank you very much and I yield back,
Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Maloney. I now yield to Mr. Cloud for a
unanimous consent request.
Mr. Cloud. Thank you, Chairwoman, and thank you, Mr.
Vargas, for your--for your thoughts.
I ask unanimous consent to put into the record an article
from the Hill, ``Deportations Lower Under Trump Administration
Than Obama.''
Chairwoman Maloney. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Cloud. Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney. I now recognize Mrs. Miller of West
Virginia.
Mrs. Miller. Thank you, Chairwoman Maloney and Ranking
Member Jordan, and thank you all for being here today.
I have heard a lot about what constitute hard-to-count
population and so I would like to offer to you a different
perspective from my state, West Virginia.
It is extremely rural and it is filled with beautiful hills
and hollers that contain many small communities, individual
homesteads, and places where families have proudly lived for
generations.
Navigating the state, reaching out to these communities,
often multiple times and ensuring that every individual is
counted in the right place is no easy feat.
Behind me displayed is a map of my district. Four of the 18
counties in my district have 100 percent of the population
living in hard-to-count neighborhoods.
I spent last year visiting each one of these counties and I
can tell you from firsthand experience how rural the
communities are.
Furthermore, an additional five counties have over 60
percent of the population living in hard-to-count
neighborhoods. That is half.
Many of these counties also had lower percentages of those
who mailed back their census forms in 2010 and required a
costly in-person followup.
It is important that this committee considers how to
address hard-to-count populations as we do take rural
communities into account.
Mr. Moore, I have enjoyed listening to your testimony today
because you have so many good ideas about how to engage the
rural communities.
One thought I had is we have a lot of food pantries as well
as mobile food pantries all over our states and I think that
might be a good way as well to spread the news about the
census.
We also have mobile mammograms that go around. Are there
any unique ways that you have found to success in reaching
these folks?
Mr. Moore. I think both of those would be good. And, again,
I am not familiar with your district or your state so I don't
know why they would be classified as hard to count. But----
Mrs. Miller. The mountains.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Moore. I understand that geography.
Colquitt County--I mentioned a little bit about the success
we had and I never thought we had a homeless population but we
do.
So, in 2010, we had a soup kitchen that feeds people every
Wednesday night and we made it available for people to
participate in the census there. I mentioned churches before.
Mrs. Miller. Yes, it is wonderful.
Mr. Moore. Schools, and several of our panelists have said
that when we were doing our focus groups we asked people where
they got their news, where they got their information, who they
trusted and who were their trusted sources, and many of them
came back to their pastors if they went to church, and their
teachers or other guidance counselors. So, I would use both of
those as options to do--try to get outreach.
But, again, every community is different. What works in one
community will not work in the other. That is why it is
critical that you have a diverse Complete Count Committee.
Somebody had mentioned earlier that a lot of times
government takes the lead, and that is true. But we have got
very successful counties where it may be Family Connections,
which is a nonprofit kind of a community organization----
Mrs. Miller. Family resource centers.
Mr. Moore [continuing]. Because they work with a lot of
your hard-to-count populations. They deal with them on a daily
basis.
So, I think that is my perspective. It may be a little bit
different than others by working with the Chamber and with the
Development Authority for so many years and working with
committees is what works in one community doesn't work in the
other.
So, you got to come up with ideas, suggestions, best
practices, and plans to help them put together a plan that
would work well for them.
Mrs. Miller. Well, much of my district, because of the
hills, the mountains, the geography, we are without the
internet and, you know, since this is the first time people can
respond online, how have you addressed the lack of being in----
Mr. Moore. We have got a lot of rural south Georgia
counties that don't have adequate internet. There is two
things.
One is if you are in an area that doesn't have the internet
that first letter should have a written form that they can fill
out, and the fifth letter will also have a written form that
they can fill out.
And then trying to promote, you know, Spring Flings, May
Day parades, football games, anything where you have got a lot
of people.
Set up tents, promote it, have educational opportunities
for them to tell them what it is, what it isn't, and encourage
them to fill out the census while they are there.
We had mentioned libraries and others have, too. The state
of Georgia allocated a million dollars to our public libraries
to put in computers, put in TVs, promotional materials to
promote the census because many of our south Georgia citizens
that don't have internet available at home go to the library.
Mrs. Miller. So, do the homeless as well.
Mr. Moore. They do, and that is another great point. But
your food banks, soup kitchens, churches, just anything. And I
have had people say that is only 50 people.
If you have got somebody that has influence over 50 people
they need to be engaged in your committee because you want to
count everybody that you can. I would hate to know that I
missed people in any county.
Mrs. Miller. And I like your trusted sources. That sounds--
--
Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you. I just want to comment.
Mr. Moore, you brought a lot of information about rural
America and how to address it and the theme of libraries. I
represent an urban area but we are using our libraries as a
center for the homeless, for other people who don't have
internet, to have people there to help them.
That is a real resource that we need to build on in our
rural communities. I want to thank you for your bringing that
information to us.
I now recognize Ms. Kelly of Illinois for questions for
five minutes.
Ms. Kelly. Thank you all for being here and thank you for
your patience. I know important the census is. Illinois has
lost a congressperson I think every decade for five decades and
it looks like we are going to lose another one, and if people
don't fill out the census we might lose two.
So, I and my office we have taken it upon ourselves--we do
census briefings all over. My district is urban, suburban, and
rural.
In the rural part of my district 40 percent of my
constituents don't have access to the internet. So, we will be
using the library.
Also in my district there is a lot of concern about the
citizenship question from my--in particular, my LatinX
population because they have talked to us about it a lot.
But what I wanted to talk about is actually the Census
Bureau itself because people are concerned about their privacy.
And in October 2019, GAO issued a report about 2020 census
operations and the report found that as of August 2019 many of
the census's technology systems were at risk of missing
critical deadlines ahead of Census Day.
The report stated that, and I quote, ``At-risk systems add
uncertainty to a highly compressed timeframe for completing
system development and testing work over the next seven
months.''
Ms. Gupta, is the Bureau ensuring that there is enough time
to adequately test all of the new systems and what concerns do
you have about it?
Ms. Gupta. Thank you, Congresswoman.
So, as some of my colleagues have already said, this census
cycle we are reaching this with fewer end-to-end tests than
ever--than in the 2010.
There has only really been one end-to-end test and that
then gives us a lot less data and gives the Bureau a lot less
data about how to shore up IT.
Obviously, technology is hugely important to reaching more
people. But it brings cybersecurity threats whether they are
real or perceived and that can chill participation as well and
the Bureau has to do everything with private Federal and state
partners to ensure security.
We have been pushing the Bureau to take necessary steps to
address how new IT and automated systems are going to affect
the communities that they are most likely to miss. We know as
we--as we said through the community map that we have worked on
in partnership where all the hard-to-count--hardest-to-count
communities are.
The Bureau has--I think should update Congress when it
appears before it on February 12 on the status of all of these
activities and show that it is spending resources in the manner
that Congress has directed and, further, I think, should press
the Bureau to ensure that its IT systems are secure.
And, I mean, I can add just, again, a couple of details.
People need to understand also through the partnership program
and public education work that the Bureau does about the
internet self-response portal and, you know, kind of understand
the process more. It is all of a piece for making sure that
cybersecurity is strong.
Ms. Kelly. Does anyone else want to add anything about
concerns?
[No response.]
Ms. Kelly. Mr. Yang, can you briefly explain the legal
protections that protect census data?
Mr. Yang. Sure. So, under Title 13 of the Census Act,
nobody is allowed to provide any individualized data coming
from the census form and that is subject to a penalty, if I
remember right, of $500 and six months in jail.
Mr. Vargas. Two hundred and fifty.
Mr. Yang. Two hundred and fifty. Five months in jail.
Mr. Vargas. Five years.
Mr. Yang. Five years in jail. Sorry about that.
So, and we will say this. I think all of us, our
experiences with the Census Bureau staff, the line level
people, they take that protection seriously and that is part of
what Mr. Vargas has talked about in terms of the Census Bureau
being a trusted messenger of sorts that we rely on.
So, those protections are absolutely in place and that is
something we do need to emphasize to our community and protect
from any misinformation with respect to that.
Ms. Kelly. If there is one thing that you would tell the
Census Bureau or us what could be done better, what would it
be, starting--just go down the line.
Ms. Gupta. Broadly?
Ms. Kelly. Yes.
Ms. Gupta. OK. Well, we have pushed very hard and
appreciated Congress's bipartisan leadership in getting the
funding levels that they needed.
We are gravely concerned about how they are actually using
and allocating in real time because the census is about to
start days away in Alaska on all of the various programs that
we know and kind of strategies to address the risks that the
census is facing that is--it is a census that is about whether
they are hiring at a fast enough pace for partnership programs,
what their plan is with their communications and ads program,
IT security, cybersecurity, and the like.
You have heard many of us address these issues and we are--
I think you have to put this and ask about all of these
questions because they have--they have funding now to do
everything that they need to do, we believe, in order to ensure
that everyone is counted.
Ms. Kelly. Just because everyone else has gone over, but
anybody else have two cents? Quickly.
Mr. Yang. I would say, broadly, transparency. We know that
there are gaps. If they let us know what the gaps are,
realistically, all of us can help to fill those gaps. But we
need to know what that is.
Ms. Kelly. And end it with you, Mr. Moore.
Mr. Moore. Congresswoman Kelly, thank you.
Talking about the security as secure for 72 years, but one
thing that has been effective when I have talked to small
groups and communities, if you look at the questions there is
really nothing on there that is not extremely personal
information. You have got your name. You have got your address.
But there is no bank account information. There are no
Social Security numbers. There is nothing like that. So,
security is a big issue and that is something that you have got
to address with people.
But I think once you actually run through the questions
that are actually on the form they might feel a little bit
better about it because I think there is a misconception that
they are going to hack the census data base and they are going
to have all of your personal information and drain your bank
account and ruin your credit and all of this other stuff and
that is just not the case with the data that is collected.
Ms. Kelly. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you very much.
And Mr. Higgins of Louisiana is recognized for five minutes
for questions.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the
panelists for appearing today.
I serve a district in south Louisiana, Third District,
where 24 percent of my constituents were considered hard to
count in the last census.
Mayor Morial, thank you for being here.
Mr. Morial. Thank you.
Mr. Higgins. My fellow Louisiana citizen. My dad was
friends with Dutch and he always----
Mr. Morial. Go LSU.
Mr. Higgins [continuing]. Always spoke well of your family.
Mr. Morial. Thank you.
Mr. Higgins. We are going to be moving a little fast here
and I assure the panelists that I am moving in a positive
direction, I believe, for the purpose of our hearing.
I am going to ask you to answer a couple of questions by
yes or no. Let me clarify that I support a totally accurate
count regarding our census. It is crucial for our
representative republic. I support door-to-door, direct mail,
and online census data collection and I believe it is the
responsibility of all of us to determine what is the best way
to have a 100 percent accurate count.
However, I think we have some realities to face. So, that I
will know who to ask a pending question to, by a show of hands
have any of you ever worked or the Census Bureau on the street,
collecting census data door to door?
Let the record reflect that no panelist member raised their
hand, Madam Chair.
My next question, by yes or no, please----
Ms. Plaskett. I have.
[Laughter.]
Ms. Plaskett. I was sleeping when you were talking but I
have.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you for your service, to my colleague.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Higgins. My second question, yes or no, and this is not
a ``gotcha'' question. I just ask for a genuine answer. Do you
recognize that some communities and some demographic groups are
more closed culturally and just--and just by tradition hesitant
to interact with those outside of their community? Yes or no.
Ms. Gupta?
Ms. Gupta. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Yang?
Mr. Yang. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Vargas?
Mr. Vargas. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Allis?
Mr. Allis. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Morial?
Mr. Morial. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Moore?
Mr. Moore. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Madam Chair, let the record reflect that all
the panelists responded yes.
So, here is an interesting question regarding how we move
forward to seek 100 percent--it should always be our goal,
right? 100 percent accurate count.
Do these American communities that have a cultural or
traditional hesitancy to communicate in census collection data
efforts--do they have the right to determine their own level of
interaction with government or those outside of their
community? Do they have that right?
Ms. Gupta?
Ms. Gupta. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Yang?
Mr. Yang. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Vargas?
Mr. Vargas. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Allis?
Mr. Allis. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Mayor?
Mr. Morial. I may not quite understand the question.
Mr. Higgins. Does an American citizen that is a member of a
community that has--that has a tradition of hesitancy to
provide data to census researchers--do they have that right to
resist staff?
Mr. Morial. I would answer by saying they have a right. But
I think people have a responsibility to participate----
Mr. Higgins. Oh, we have a responsibility to do the
outreach. Do they have to----
Mr. Morial [continuing]. To participate in the census. They
have a responsibility.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Moore?
Mr. Moore. I think they have the right, but it is required
by law that they participate.
Mr. Higgins. But they have the right to resist, do they
not? And it would be--it would be incumbent upon us to, through
outreach and communication into these communities to encourage
their participation and then to seek ultimately their census
data----
Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
Mr. Higgins [continuing]. But they have the right to
resist.
OK. Just so we are clear on that, because I was a patrolman
on the street in 2010 and it was a common--one moment, ma'am--
it was a common call during the census collection of a 107
POP--a suspicious person. There was a great hesitancy--this is
in 2010. Sometimes we would get multiple calls a day on the
same census worker.
Now, since 2010, there has been an overwhelming number of
scams and efforts to steal identity and money online via email,
a telephone. It increased exponentially and has largely
targeted the elderly.
I believe this decade past will certainly influence a
greater number of American communities and individual families
and households to resist the efforts to collect their data and
I think that there is a great deal of emphasis being placed on
a citizenship question at the expense of overlooking the fact
that we have--we have allowed it to manifest in our Nation, an
environment that we encourage our citizens on a daily basis if
you don't know the person calling you on your phone don't
answer the phone.
If you are not familiar with the emails coming to you,
don't open an attachment. This has been made manifest over the
last 10 years, and I think that as a nation we have to get
our--we have to get our heads wrapped around this because I
believe one of the largest demographics that will not be
counted in this coming census is our elderly and those that
feel--that feel under threat from scam or ID theft.
So, if Madam Chair would allow any panelists--perhaps they
could choose amongst themselves to respond to that observation.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time is up. Someone may
respond if they would like to. I think he raises a relevant
point, reaching out to the elderly. Is there anyone who would
like to respond?
Mr. Moore?
Mr. Moore. I will, just briefly. In our focus groups and
the information that we have received back, the elderly is
generally a population that is more inclined to voluntarily
respond to the census because they have done them before and
they see it as their civic duty.
I can't address your concerns about privacy and going
online more but traditionally that has been one group that has
had a higher response rate than other segments of the
population.
Chairwoman Maloney. Yes, Mr. Allis?
Mr. Allis. If I may, Madam Chair.
So, you speak to resistance, all right, and thank you for
your service. I did almost 10 years on the streets of Baltimore
City doing what you did.
As Mr. Moore said earlier, one size doesn't fit all when
you look at different areas and different districts, and why a
people or a group of people may resist in one area may not be
transferrable to the other.
So, your suggestion, respectfully, that people have a right
to resist and then follow it up with a security concern based
on fraud on the internet and other locations and things in
their--they run across in their daily lives is then
transferrable to all these resisting communities as being a
primary cause or suggesting that is dubious, at best.
Indian Country resists, if it is a resistance, for a
totally different reason which has nothing to do with anything
that you spoke to.
It has to do to a historical mistreatment of American
Indians through a couple hundred years--periods when they
weren't even allowed to vote or were citizens that covered two
periods where they tried to--this country tried to terminate
American Indian ancestry.
OK. So, when you look at why we may be a little hesitant,
it has nothing to do with that. It has more to do with properly
communicating, educating, and connecting with the culture and
tradition that exist on individual Indian reservations and
understanding what that is.
So, I have to say that in response to your suggestion to
try to pigeonhole the panel, if you will, into recognizing
certain things with a yes or no answer and then extrapolating
some kind of----
Mr. Higgins. I thank the gentleman.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Higgins. I thank Madam Chair for her indulgence.
Chairwoman Maloney. But very important issues were raised.
Mr. Higgins. And I find it--I find it not shocking that a
panelist would identify a Member of Congress as dubious. Most
of America considers us all dubious.
[Laughter.]
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
Congresswoman Lawrence from Michigan is recognized for five
minutes for questions.
Mrs. Lawrence. I think the questions my colleague posed
just gives us more of a drive and a responsibility to ensure
that we educate, that we address the concerns, and that we are
assuring that our outreach is one that is inclusive.
As Members of Congress, I must ensure that all hard-to-
reach hard-to-count communities are included in this upcoming
census.
Unfortunately, the president's continued mention of the
citizens question--citizenship question--has incorrectly
sparked fear in a lot of the communities.
Today, we have an opportunity to help correct that
injustice. My home district is Detroit, a city notoriously
undercounted in the census with a large minority population who
speaks dozens of languages. It is critical that the Census
Bureau take every step it can to ensure that the hard-to-reach
populations in our communities are reached.
After the 2010 census, the Census Bureau reported that it
undercounted African Americans by two percent, Hispanics by
1.5, and American Indians and Alaskans by five percent.
According to the 2010 census, my district home is home to
over 400,000 African Americans, 34,000 Hispanics, and 1,500
American Indians, which equates to a district that is seriously
at risk of being undercounted.
If those undercount trends continue, my district will see
hundreds if not thousands of individuals not counted in the
2020 census.
In addition to that, 10 percent of my district is born in
another country. Our largest groups are residents from Eastern
Europe, Iraq, Bangladesh, and then Mexico, India, and Yemen,
and the list goes on.
My home state of Michigan stands to lose $30 billion for
infrastructure and we are already rated one of the worst in the
country, and access to clean drinking water--you all know the
story of Flint--health care, education, and more if the 2020
census is not properly done.
I am concerned that because the Census Bureau had fallen
behind in the hiring for the 2020 census, it may not have the
manpower it needs to conduct followup operations to ensure
everyone in America fills out the census form.
In November 2019, the independent Inspector General at the
Department of Commerce raised concerns about hiring delays. The
IG found that the Census Bureau information technology systems
used failed several tests, and I quote, ``present a risk to
successful completion of our census.''
Ms. Gupta, do you have concerns about the pace of the
census hiring today?
Ms. Gupta. Yes, I do, and I think several of our panelists
do for the very reason that you said, which is this program is
actually vitally important to being able to secure an accurate
count in some of the hardest-to-count communities.
Mrs. Lawrence. In fact, the Census Bureau has acknowledged
that it is way behind in hiring. Just this week, the Bureau
issued a press release stating that the Census Bureau needs
more applicants in all 50 states.
Mr. Morial, do you believe that the Census Bureau is doing
all it can to recruit and to hire enumerators and what else--
you know, the question that we should be asking here today as
Members of Congress is what can we do, because we must act.
Do you have recommendations? And give me your assessment of
our hiring.
Mr. Morial. Let me--let me thank you for your question and
thank you for your focus, and let me just kind of--it is time
to ring the alarm bell on the enumerator program.
They are behind. There is no strategy to catch up. They
have got to hire 500,000 people. Every hard-to-count community,
whether it is in black, LatinX, American Indian, or Asian
American, is overly reliant on the success of the enumerator
program and what they need to do is hold emergency hiring
fairs.
Mrs. Lawrence. OK.
Mr. Morial. They need to decouple their total reliance on
an online hiring system. They need to do what anyone would do
in an emergency and that is to say our processes have not--by
utilizing our processes we have fallen behind and therefore we
need to change.
Wise people change, fools never. And if they continue along
the course that they are going, they will not hire enough
people and an undercount is preordained.
Mrs. Lawrence. It is preordained.
Mr. Morial. On No. 2----
Mrs. Lawrence. I agree.
Mr. Morial [continuing]. This Congress appropriated $90
million for mobile questionnaire assistance centers. We have no
information that they have stood up the implementation of that
program.
And to add to this, decisions made years ago to reduce the
number of local partnership offices means that those
partnership specialists, for which, once again, they are far
behind in hiring, have a broader geographic area to cover.
So, what they should do is they should go into some of
these areas and set up emergency partnership offices.
My point is as we sit here in early January with the
questions--the first letters to go out in less than 60 days--we
need to ring the alarm bell and demand that there be
adjustments in their approach or the result is not going to be
what we want.
Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney. Your time has expired.
And Mr. Keller of Pennsylvania is recognized for five
minutes.
Mr. Keller. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I just want to get into the census information. You know,
we all know it is used for the boundaries of congressional
districts as it has been since the beginning of our republic.
I mean, that was--it was designed for that purpose, and now
it is also used to distribute more than $600 billion per year
in our communities. So, it is very important and I want to
thank the panel for being here today to discuss this issue.
Pennsylvania's 12th congressional District has many rural
areas where the census would define hard-to-count populations.
In fact, the town or the village I live in has a population of
less than a thousand and, again, these areas would be defined
as hard to reach by the census.
Looking at this, I think it is important--you know, we look
back on what we have been able to accomplish in 1969, putting a
man on the moon and returning him safely to Earth, okay, and we
can do that in 1969.
We are in 2020, and I think that we need to look at it as
essential that we put forward proven strategies and the use of
that technology that we have been able to get over the years to
ensure that the rural communities are properly counted in the
2020 census. And, again, we know the mailings are set to begin
in a few short months.
So, I looked at what happened and some examples of what
happened, Mr. Moore, with your work in Colquitt County,
Georgia, prior to 2010 as an example of reaching hard-to-count
communities.
Are there things--what could you say more about your
efforts and how those efforts might help other parts of the
country count some of these areas that are hard to count
using--and, again, I am going to say with the use of
technology? Do you see that being a part of what we can do?
Mr. Moore. Sorry. The use of technology--do you mean
sharing information with other regions or----
Mr. Keller. No, I----
Mr. Moore [continuing]. What other communities can do?
Mr. Keller. I mean the fact that with certain things we can
pinpoint--and I will use an example. I mean, we all use GPS.
So, we have incredible mapping to know where homes are, to know
where people live.
Mr. Moore. Sure.
Mr. Keller. And I think that we should--you know, when we
talk about hard to-hard-to-count populations, and most of it is
people under five, you know, is what I have seen. But how can
we use the technology to make sure we are reaching all the
households?
Mr. Moore. There is a lot of great data that is available.
Historic information from the 2010 census, your internet
connectivity, your coverage for current numbers.
You also have a lot of different options. We had a program
called LUCA, and forgive me. Everybody at the table probably
knows what it is, but I can't remember what the acronym stands
for.
But we recorded every address in every county in Georgia,
and Georgia had one of the highest participation rates, and
that is critical because that determines where the mail is
going to go and the ones that don't respond that gives you an
address where the enumerators can go door to door.
I would go back--you got a thousand-person community, I
guess, that you were worried about, and I would----
Mr. Keller. Well, not just that one. But that is just an
example of what Rural PA-12 looks like.
Mr. Moore. I would suggest that that community have their
own Complete Count Committee or have a group because, again,
they are going to be more familiar with where people
congregate, where people go, who people trust, who the trusted
voices are for different segments of the community and come up
with a plan to make sure that everybody, again, is educated and
aware of the census, why it is important, and they are
motivated to respond when they get that first mailing in the
mail instead of having to get somebody to drag them in to do
it.
You want to make it where they realize, again, how
important it is and they voluntarily fill it out that first
time they get a mailing.
Your enumerators--the response rate when they go door to
door is extremely low. So, our goal for everybody that we are
dealing with is to try to have the highest percentage of people
voluntarily fill out the census as possible.
I know I probably didn't answer it directly because I am
not familiar with the community. But I will be glad to share
with you some suggestions or ideas that we have shared with the
other communities and be glad to followup with you by phone or
somebody from your community to try to help them out, too.
Mr. Keller. I appreciate that, because what we are looking
at doing is making sure we accurately count everybody, and I
know--you know, we all--we all run for election and we seem to
be able to find out where people are that vote and be able to
mail them things and find all that.
And I find it very shocking that we don't have a uniform
system or we are not actually able to find it out when it comes
to counting people that live in the United States.
So, I think there are some things we could do. I just
wondered, you know, more of that sharing--how do we get more of
that shared best practice----
Mr. Moore. Sure.
Mr. Keller [continuing]. And that is exactly what I am
going to call it, a best practice in parts of the country.
Mr. Moore. That is exactly what it is. We have got a plan
for our 41 counties. We have got a plan for our state and would
be glad to share it. We have actually got--I mentioned our 41
counties several times.
We have got probably six to ten counties outside of our
service area that we are supporting and we would be glad to
assist or help with you doing it.
Chairwoman Maloney. OK. The gentleman's time has expired.
But he raises an important point. To get a list of best
practices that we could use around the country would be
something that we could try to get the Census Bureau to pull
together for all of us, from the testimony of our panelists
together and others. That is a very important point.
Mr. Keller. I guess I would just ask, you know, the people
at the table if you have shared best practices because you have
all been very active. I would encourage you, if you haven't
already done it, to look at what other people are doing to
solve this and put together a best practice for doing it.
Chairwoman Maloney. I think that is an excellent idea.
The Chair recognizes from the great state of New York, Ms.
Ocasio-Cortez.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank
you to all our witnesses for coming to offer testimony today.
I know we have had several hearings on the census and some
of you all have come and offered your expertise and we thank
you for that.
I think after the past year of so many developments going
on, particularly when it comes to the question on documented
status on the census, there is a lot of havoc and confusion
that has been unleashed in the electorate, which we know has
really created a lot of fear in communities around one of the
most important constitutional operations that we have to--that
we have to conduct.
So, let us clarify some things. Ms. Gupta, will the 2020
census ask people about their documented status or citizenship
status?
Ms. Gupta. It will not.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. It will not. Is filling out the census
safe?
Ms. Gupta. It is safe and confidential.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Will--and on that confidentiality, will
an individual's personal information be shared from the 2020
census?
Ms. Gupta. Federal law prohibits the sharing of census
information with any other government agency.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. So, it is illegal for any of your
individual information to be shared by the census, correct?
Ms. Gupta. That is right.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And what is--do we know how--how serious
of a crime is it? Is it just kind of a misdemeanor or is it
very serious?
Ms. Gupta. It is very serious. The Federal law on this
subject is very robust, in part because the consequences would
be incredibly grave. But it would be very, very serious--a
serious crime.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. OK.
So, let us talk a little bit about the potential outcome of
not counting a community, right. So, let us say I wanted to
manipulate people's ability to return the census or, rather,
their willingness to return the census--kind of spook people
out of it.
Why would I, potentially, want to do something like that?
Ms. Gupta. You may want to do it to encourage swaths of
communities that are perceived to vote for one party or another
to stay out of the census for political gain.
You may want that to happen because you don't believe that
certain segments of the community are deserving of the same
social services as everyone else. But it is against the law and
written to the Constitution that the duty of the Federal
Government is to count every single person regardless of
status.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. So, there is a potential political
motive as to why somebody would want to undercount certain
communities in the census?
Ms. Gupta. Yes. I would say that the citizenship litigation
and the Supreme Court found that even just the kind of impetus
and motive for adding that question was motivated by partisan
gain and Dr. Thomas Hofeller's memos that were discovered in
the course of that litigation unfortunately reveal that there
was an effort to weaponize the census for partisan gain when,
in fact, it should be a core government institution and
function that is free from politics.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. So, we have seen that there is a
documented paper trail here that the desire to scare our
immigrant communities out of answering the census is to help
and add a political gain to the Trump administration and,
potentially, partisan--along partisan lines, correct?
Ms. Gupta. I will say that, unfortunately, we have some
pretty concrete evidence of that being the case. Again, look no
further than Thomas Hofeller's memo advocating for the addition
of the citizenship question to be--to advantage non-Hispanic
whites.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. OK. And so let us see. Let me move on.
Mr. Vargas, I understand your organization issued a report
last may from the National Latino Commission on the Census.
Mr. Vargas, what did this report find about trust in the
government and this administration among likely census
respondents in the Latino community?
Mr. Vargas. That commission, which was bipartisan and
chaired by a member of the Miami-Dade County Board of Education
and the secretary of state of California, held five regional
hearings throughout the country and heard testimony from
community leaders that emphasize how just overall--not just
among Latinos or immigrants, but overall in the American public
there is a growing mistrust of institutions, of contact with
government, of submitting information online.
These are all challenges that the Census Bureau understands
that they are facing and are working to overcome, which is why
the resources that they have needed for their communications
campaign is so essential.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you.
And Ms. Gupta, very quickly, let us talk about the stakes
here. If we don't answer the census, would that impact our
school funding--funding for schools?
Ms. Gupta. Absolutely.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Does it impact funding for our roads?
Ms. Gupta. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Does it impact resources for our
communities?
Ms. Gupta. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. So, our kids--if we don't answer the
census our kids will not be able to have textbooks, teachers in
the ratios that they need, schools that are being built.
We also have one of the--I represent one of the most
undercounted districts in the country but also represent one of
the most overcrowded districts when it comes to schooling.
That, I am sure, is connected as well, correct?
Ms. Gupta. Yes. I mean, there are broad implications for
how kids--how many teachers to students there are in any school
district, health care, hospitals, roads, infrastructure.
It has a very real impact on real actual living communities
when they are--when people are rendered invisible or not
counted in the census.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you very much.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
Our next questioner will be Congressman Armstrong from the
great state of North Dakota.
Mr. Armstrong. Thank you.
So, rural communities aren't, I mean, monolithic. They
are--I mean, they are very different. They are very diverse,
and so I can't talk about Georgia with any particular degree of
accuracy. But what I can do is talk about North Dakota both on
and off the Native American reservations.
Because outside of all the historical stuff, which I do
agree with you, Mr. Allis, there are also some unique
challenges because of the rural location of how we deal with
this.
I mean, the Census Bureau defines hard-to-count as hard-to-
locate, hard-to-interview, hard-to-contact, hard-to-persuade,
and these are the biggest challenges in rural households.
And when we talk rural community, Mr. Moore, I mean, there
is a big distinction even from a rural town of 200 people
versus all of the people who live around that town of 200
people.
So, what are--I mean, like, what is one of the biggest
challenges when trying to count rural communities?
Mr. Moore. Again, it is just the diversity of the community
and trying to find sources where people congregate, they get
their information, and have those trusted voices. Everybody on
the panel has mentioned that. I mentioned it a little bit
earlier.
You may have people that you trust and would act on what
they told you and they may not listen and they may not listen
to Mr. Morial.
So, having a diverse group that can address everybody in
the community is going to have the greatest impact. And through
our research and trying to find out what was effective and what
was not effective, almost everybody responded to the ads that
addressed how the census data impacted their family.
They all respected how the census data impacted their
children, and most of them said that they trusted teachers or
guidance counselors. That was a trusted voice. They trusted
their pastors.
So, again, trying to find those trusted voices and then how
to come up with a plan to get that information out well in
advance of the census.
Mr. Armstrong. And I think that is what I want to go to,
too, because--and then I want to ask Mr. Allis how do we--how
do we recruit more people from the enrolled tribe to work on
this?
Because I have done a lot of work on reservations in North
Dakota and just the efficiency of having somebody from there
doing it.
We have a problem in North Dakota. We have 30,000 open
jobs. We, effectively, have negative unemployment.
So, when you bring somebody from outside of those rural
areas to work, to do the census work, their efficiency will go
down exponentially, let alone when you are dealing with
frustration, skepticism, and dealing with those issues.
Mr. Allis. So, Congressman, thank you for raising that.
You know, there are a lot of challenges, and you are
correct, the rural nature of where these Native communities
are--makes it difficult.
Mr. Armstrong. As simple as not having 911 addresses.
Mr. Allis. And--well, and as simple as what we take for
granted, having access to the internet. And when you look at--
--
Mr. Armstrong. Or a landline or cell service.
Mr. Allis. Nothing. Zero. And so when you look at your
normal methods of communication, okay, let us just look at in a
couple silos here.
One, and you asked how do we get people--you know,
enumerators get people there to, you know, interact and get
counted and how do they come from Indian Country.
Well, census's movement toward filling these positions
through online networks has complicated the issue for us, has
had a major impact on the number of people that have the
ability to do that.
So, we, you know, strongly suggest that you let us go back
to the old paper way. As Mr. Morial mentioned, it is crunch
time. All right.
When the Congressman earlier was speaking about hirings and
the specialists, they start in Alaska in two weeks and there
are no Native Alaskans as partnership specialists. Zero.
Zero, at this point. OK. Which is very shocking and
alarming, and in part because of the enormous hurdles it is now
to end the wait time and how long it takes to become badged, an
employee with the U.S. Census Bureau.
So, we really need to consider that. That is a--that is an
additional pile-on in addition to all the stuff you and I
already know about this community.
Mr. Armstrong. Then that would be my question for Mr. Moore
and then maybe you can weigh in, too. Have we ever looked at,
like, the number of census workers per citizen in rural areas
versus in urban areas?
I mean, the efficiency is just significantly decreased when
you have to drive 60 miles between residents.
Mr. Moore. I know just from speaking from my perspective in
the communities that I am familiar with, we talked about the
partnership specialists and they are all great people but they
are stretched thin, and that is not the only solution for me.
I think they are there to give guidance, best practices,
try to help the committees get together and be there on a more
frequent basis. But if you are going to follow that model you
definitely need more people serving a smaller geographic area.
Mr. Armstrong. And I will close with this. I think we take
for granted 911 addresses, GPS locations, cell service,
internet, landlines.
And I can tell you, in rural areas in North Dakota none of
those things exist in certain places and they are more
exacerbated than even in our traditional rural areas on Native
American reservations in North Dakota.
So, thank you all very much.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you for raising some interesting
points.
Ms. Tlaib from Michigan?
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you all so much
for being here.
One of the things that I think we have been kind of
distracted in understanding, I think, what it really means for
us to just primarily do this initial round online and the
really, I think, crisis that we have right now when it comes to
the census is the fact that it has to rely on access to
broadband internet.
And it is not just my communities like in Wayne County. It
is community rural America. There is so much, again, emphasis
on investing only on having this all be online and in return
they are saying if we are going to go online then we don't need
that many folks on the ground. We don't need this many offices.
Secretary Ross came before this committee and specifically
said he was reducing these offices by 50 percent primarily
because they were going online.
Now, last census I believe it was one out of three did not
return the responses in the initial round. Do you know one out
of nine Americans don't have access to internet?
And not only that, combine that with the fact that they are
going to hire 125,000 less people--fewer people--to actually
try to get people counted.
All that combined, I think--for me when we think about the
communities that we are talking about here and the undercounted
communities, I think we are underestimating what this really
means. The fact that this is the first time ever in the history
of our country that we are going to go completely online, rely
on that to be initial touch.
Now, I know this, and I would ask my colleagues don't use
the broadband internet in this chamber or at home, if you have
it. Try to go fill out the census on your own when you don't
have access to that.
People need to understand it is, one, because some don't--
can't even afford the internet access. It is an affordability
issue, not only even an access issue of it being available.
So, I want to ask each and every single one of you all the
critical importance of understanding what this is really going
to mean, because resources are down 50 percent. They are going
to hire less than, you know, hundreds of thousands of people on
the ground.
I am very fearful. I mean, the city of Detroit has its
coalition of folks that meet all the time. They are trying to
raise money with the private foundations and private folks.
The Wayne County community that I represent all throughout
the community, you know, our Wayne County executive, Warren
Evans, is really taking the lead and saying we got to count
everybody and I appreciate his leadership on that.
But what is worrisome to me is unless I have folks with
iPads at the bus stops or at--you know, outside of schools,
trying to explain to folks, guess what, no one is coming
knocking on your door. You are not going to get something in
your mailbox. You have to--you have to go online and do it
right there online.
Now, the majority of my residents they use their phone.
That is not going to work. Not only that, it is not safe and
secure, period.
So, I want to hear from every single one of you in regards
to that because I don't want us to deter from this major change
in how we are counting folks this year.
Mr. Yang. If I could start. You made a very important
distinction. It is not the first online census. It is the first
census in which online responses are available.
And so that is one thing we need to educate our community
on is that that is not your only option. You can still get a
written form. Or, by the fourth mailing, if you have not
responded you will get a written form in the mail.
Obviously, there is difficulties with rural addresses, et
cetera. But that option is still available. Likewise, there is
a 1-800 number that you can call to provide your responses.
So, that is part of the education. Part of the education,
certainly, for the Asian-American community is there is a
reluctance to use the online even if it is available.
That survey data that we did showed that paper form is
still preferred in many of our communities. So, that is part of
the education and, again, it is coordinating with the Census
Bureau to make sure they understand that and they are starting
to understand it more.
Initially, they were touting how online internet responses
would be wonderful and make everything more efficient.
They have backtracked, to their credit, on some of that
messaging. But we need to continue to emphasize how closely to
tie all of that together.
Mr. Vargas. I would invite Congress to actually pay close
scrutiny to making sure that the Census Bureau actually has the
load capacity to be able to intake, you know, millions of
Americans going online all at once to try to provide their
census information.
I firmly believe that we need a Plan B and that the Census
Bureau needs to make sure it has an adequate supply of paper
forms at the ready should something happen and the computer
load capacity not work, as we saw previously in health.gov.
Ms. Gupta. I would just add to that. I really appreciate
you bringing up the cost issues as well. It is accessibility.
It is costly for individuals. Connection speeds vary. It is
higher--higher speeds cost more money and we know which
communities are--have access to higher connectivity and the
like.
You know, it is in part because of the shortages from the
Bureau why it has been really important for us as advocates to
make sure that cities and states are also kind of engaged in
putting money toward this fight, that you have got Complete
Count networks that are locally based and rooted, and we kind
of, shockingly, have several states that still have not set up
any Complete Count Committees.
We have several states that have refused to put any dollars
toward the census when we know of all of the kind of very
unique challenges that the 2020 census is going to be facing.
But there are--there has been significant, you know,
places--to put a positive piece on this is that there has been
a lot of cities and states and NGO's that have been really
stepping up to deploy and make wifi centers available and
devices available in public spaces for households to respond to
the census.
But we know that is not a kind of structural answer to some
of the grave issues that you are talking about. And then we
have talked a little bit about the cybersecurity concerns as
well that we are all very mindful of and----
Mr. Gomez.
[Presiding.] Time has expired.
Ms. Gupta. Yes.
Ms. Tlaib. Chairman, if you don't mind, I would like to
submit for the record an article titled ``The Census Could
Undercount People Who Don't Have Internet Access'' by one of
our FCC commissioners, please.
Mr. Gomez. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you.
Mr. Gomez. I recognize Ms. Porter of California for
questions.
Ms. Porter. Thank you.
This committee has had a lot of discussion about how
government programs are affected by an incomplete count. But I
wanted to talk about how important a fair and accurate census
is for a thriving private sector that creates opportunities for
all.
I am a proud capitalist but I want that capitalism to
create opportunities for everybody and to do that we need an
accurate count. An accurate count is a critical tool that helps
businesses grow. It helps create jobs. It helps them serve all
their communities.
Mr. Chair, I would like to enter into the record a brief of
businesses and business organizations that they filed in
opposition to President Trump's census changes.
Mr. Gomez. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Porter. The companies and organizations that submitted
this brief come from a wide variety of industries and regions
with different sizes and approaches, for example, the Los
Angeles Chamber of Commerce, Univision, Lyft, Ben and Jerry's,
and Massimo Corporation, which is located in Orange County.
And in this brief they say, quote, ``Without accurate
census data on which to base location decisions, businesses
would lose a tool that has become crucial to their survival and
growth,'' unquote.
They also said, quote, ``Mistakes about where to place a
store, a warehouse, or other facility can harm not only a
business's overall outlook but also the communities that need
or don't need such a facility,'' end quote.
It is not just about what is on our shelves, the risk of an
inaccurate count. The National Association of Homebuilders uses
census data to help provide housing market information,
including the number of renters and home values.
A fair and accurate census will help demonstrate the need
for more housing in places like Orange County.
Ms. Gupta, as a leader in this area, what partnership have
you or could you develop with businesses to reach hard-to-count
communities?
Ms. Gupta. Several--the Leadership Conference and several
organizations at this table have been working very closely with
trying to get more corporate partners to be partners in helping
to get out the count and we have seen a number of companies
really step up for the very reasons that many of them
articulated in their amicus brief to the U.S. Supreme Court
about their concern about the citizenship question.
They--companies understand the business case for an
accurate census. They are very concerned about having any kind
of undercount. They rely on it for marketing decisions,
location decisions, and the like, as you mentioned.
And so we have had some success at getting companies, big
companies with huge footprints to get more engaged in this
effort and to helping partners in getting out the count. You
know, different companies are doing a range of different
things, are using their platforms for marketing and
advertising.
They are using their platforms to get employees where they
have thousands, tens of thousands, in some cases hundreds of
thousands of employees. But we also will say that we need more
companies to be engaged.
I will just say, and I think you are hearing this from all
of us, that this is an all-hands-on-deck moment, that as
somebody said, you know, we have got to call, like, kind of
shake the alarm right now because this is happening.
We are not kind of approaching the census. We are days away
from the count.
Ms. Porter. And Mr. Vargas, have you tried to partner with
the business community for outreach on the census and, if so,
what feedback have you received?
Mr. Vargas. We have actually engaged a number of businesses
so that they could do several things. One is encourage their
own employees to participate in the census and convince them to
make sure that everybody in their spheres of influence and
their networks also participate in the census but also to
incorporate census messages as they reach out to their
customers and their clients.
It is an all-hands-on-deck, as Ms. Gupta mentioned, and
businesses themselves can also be trusted messengers. So, if
somebody has trust in that grocery store that they go to and
that grocery store is providing census information, well, that
is a good thing in terms of making sure that the information is
getting out there.
Ms. Porter. In my district I met with the Irvine Chamber of
Commerce, who made clear to me how important an accurate count
is for them, and they are putting their own resources toward
what they call Project Census 2020 to help educate and inform
the companies that are part of the Irvine Chamber of Commerce
to do exactly this work and I would hope that we could make--
ask of the leaders of organizations like the Business
Roundtable, which has recently said that they want to engage
stakeholders at every level, to put some of their muscle behind
this initiative.
Ms. Gupta?
Ms. Gupta. We are engaged with the Business Roundtable on
this very question.
Ms. Porter. Great.
With my remaining time, I wanted to highlight something
that has come to my attention in my district, which is the
problem of--as a consumer protection advocate the problem of
people taking advantage of this trusted brand that we try to
build in the census to use it them to create scams.
And so in my district people in other districts--people
have been receiving things saying that they have been selected
to participate in a census and then they have given a voter
number and a deadline and questions that look very similar to
the census but these are actually political tools.
And so we have written to the Postmaster General. I have
written to the attorney general of California. I have tried to
shine a light on that and have not received yet, like, sort of
helpful responses.
I am going to followup on this with the census director
when he comes. But I just want to flag for you the importance
of also scam education as you are doing your outreach.
My time has expired.
Mr. Gomez. I would like to recognize Ms. Haaland from New
Mexico for questions.
Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Chairman.
Thank you all so much for taking the time to be here and
for your hard work on behalf of the underrepresented people in
our country.
Thank you for your persistence and integrity in the face of
opposition for the higher purposes of equality and justice,
which is what all of you are doing when you are doing this
work.
I need to mention something for the record because it was--
it was brought up--raised earlier by one of my colleagues, and
what I would like to say is that this entire country was once
Indian Country--this entire country--and Federal recognition is
a process that has been established because of colonialism and
for no other reason.
So, regardless of whether an indigenous person is enrolled
in a federally recognized tribe, there are tribes that have
been denied that status by this government. It doesn't mean
that they are not indigenous.
They, in fact, are indigenous and they should answer the
census in that way if that is how they identify. There are
state-recognized tribes. There are tribes that don't--aren't
state or federally recognized.
However, they have a family history that says that they are
indigenous to this continent and they should respond the way
that their family history requires them and obligates them to.
And so now on to some questions. The Census Bureau has had
10 years to prepare for the 2020 census and to address the
severe undercount of Native Americans in the last census.
They know the vast majority of responses will have to be
done by in-person enumerators on tribal lands. Keeping in mind
that our state of New Mexico has, largely, Navajos, Pueblos,
and Apaches and several large diverse urban Indian populations.
Not only is the Census Bureau behind on hiring staff but it
took congressional intervention in my home state of New Mexico
to get the regional census office to order printed translation
guides in the Navajo language. The Navajo population is the
largest Indian population in my state.
And not only that, but they have a language that is taught
on Rosetta Stone, for example. I am directing this question to
Mr. Allis but I encourage all of you to submit your answers in
writing as it pertains to the communities you are working with.
Mr. Allis, from your experience, do you believe that the
Bureau officials understand the unique challenges for remote
tribal nations and language needs, and if not, at this point
what actions do you think the Bureau should prioritize to
ensure a full count?
And second, Mr. Allis, please give us an idea of just how
important it is to count urban Indian populations.
Mr. Allis. Thank you, Congresswoman, and two great
questions. I do recognize that 78 percent of the Native
American community in New Mexico, your state, is in a hard-to-
count area. Significant population.
So, does the U.S. Census Bureau really understand our
needs? That is a tough question to answer. I don't know if it
is a yes or no answer or if it is fair.
We work with them. It is important that we need to work
with them and get along with them. They have taken strides to
try to address some of our issues and some of our concerns that
we have articulated through the years.
However, and as Mr. Morial mentioned earlier, this is not a
complaint about funding. Congress has done its job and properly
funded. This is about the operational decisions that they have
made.
And when you look at some of the things that they have
made, we do have to question whether they do fully understand
the needs and the problems that exist and the hurdles by way
of, for instance, how they are staffing their team and putting
that together and also not necessarily communicating with any
of us, you know, on the mobile questionnaire program--how is
that going to work, who is going to do that, what is their
vision for that.
So, although they, you know, have identified the barriers,
okay, taken the time to identify, self-identify what those
barriers are--privacy concerns, trusted voices, language
barriers, and a general lack of knowledge and proper
messaging--it is questionable whether the operational decisions
have gone to address those.
How important is this to us? You know we are very unique.
OK. We are a political group. We are a political body, and also
what a lot of this country doesn't understand we are one of
three sovereigns that is articulated in the U.S. Constitution:
Federal Government, states, and tribal governments.
And what is the lifeblood of any sovereign entity? It is
tax base. OK. It is being able to get resources from its tax
base. Well, we don't have that option. That doesn't exist.
We don't have that lifeblood. Our lifeblood is the Federal
funding for all--for education, economic development,
infrastructure--that has been promised to us in treaties and
trust responsibility and that funding is directly impacted by
the census.
And if that doesn't come off right and if we are not
properly counted, our lifeblood is cut right off. And whether
you are a tribal sovereign government, whether you are a state
or Federal Government or whether you are a human being, you
stop your lifeblood you die.
And so that is how important it is and that is the really
unique distinction that separates Indian Country from our other
partners that I think people really need to understand.
Mr. Gomez. Thank you so much. Time has expired.
Now I would like to recognize Ms. Pressley of Massachusetts
for questions.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I represent the Massachusetts 7th and Boston makes up the
bulk of my district, and out of the 100 largest cities in the
country it is ninth in being hardest to count.
It is a vibrant diverse dynamic district but one of the
most unequal in the country and that is certainly true when it
comes to health outcomes.
And so census data is used to allocate hundreds of billions
of dollars in Federal funding for health care programs. Most
people aren't aware that that includes Medicaid and CHIP, the
Children's Health Insurance Program.
These programs provide coverage to millions of families
working to make ends meet in the United States.
Ms. Gupta, can you explain how census data determine
Federal spending for Medicaid and CHIP?
Ms. Gupta. Well, census data is the basis by which these
really large Federal programs are going to be able to allocate
dollars per person in districts.
And so, literally, an undercount of people in your
community will result in smaller block grants being given
through these programs for kids to get the healthcare that they
need.
And, of course, we know also about health care disparities
already so the consequences of an undercount in communities--
the health care consequences are going to be that much more
dire.
Ms. Pressley. And could you just elaborate a little bit
more on that, Ms. Gupta, how would failing to count hard-to-
reach communities in the 2020 census further entrench already
existing systemic barriers?
Ms. Gupta. Well, there has been--there have been--there is
a wealth of information showing the degree to which health care
disparities hit low income communities, communities of color at
a highly disproportionate rate.
When you think about--if you are thinking about structural
issues like the allocation of Federal dollars to support
programs that are specifically targeted to address those gaps
and close the chasm, if there is an undercount of those very
communities it becomes a vicious cycle.
An undercount of those very communities, the dollars that
are allocated for the programs intended to reach them are then
also diminished and reduced, and so it becomes a structural
vicious cycle.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
And Mr. Vargas, what does this mean for LatinX communities
which are already uninsured at disproportionately higher rates?
Mr. Vargas. The irony is that when a community suffers an
undercount, the services that are based on census data then are
even delivered less so to those same communities.
So, take the example of very young Latino children. They
are the most frequently undercounted population in the country.
Four hundred thousand very young Latino children ages zero
to four were not counted in the 2010 census. So, all of the
data--all of the programs that are designed to benefit very
young children are off because the numbers are wrong, and if
your numbers are wrong your decisions and your funding
allocations are wrong.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Vargas.
And Mr. Morial, is it your opinion that this could
disproportionately worsen health outcomes in the black
community on issues like maternal mortality or other health
disparities?
Mr. Morial. All across the board. Every single health
disparity would be exacerbated by an undercount because the
list and the range of programs that rely on census data for the
allocation of funds is long and deep.
I think it is approximately $800 billion in the Federal
budget is allocated based on the data collected in the census.
So, it stands to reason whether it is Medicaid, Medicare,
Children's Health Insurance Program, CBDG, Head Start--you
could go down the line--it is so essential we have got to
communicate that to our communities.
But that is why we got a whole census accountable to do the
right thing and make sure everyone is counted because the
impact is political when it comes to reapportionment of every
single office in the country for whom the people are elected by
districts.
The impact is economic because it affects $800 billion. The
impact also goes beyond that because as the questioner--one of
the members asked earlier, the entire framework for market-
based data used by the private sector, by the media companies,
is based on census data.
Our own state of Black America report is based entirely on
census--in large part on census data.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Morial. And with my remaining
time, I don't know if any of you have thoughts, in 20 seconds,
as to whether or not incarcerated men and women should be
counted and included in the census according to the home
communities they are from and not where they are being mostly
warehoused.
Mr. Morial. Yes, yes, and yes, and let me just say this. We
had the Census Bureau on the brink of reversing this just
before the 2016 election. The 2016 election impacted this.
So, the Census Bureau was on the verge, because we had
advocated for many, many years that they changed where those
who are incarcerated are counted to their home districts, and
it changed.
So, the election impacted this. It is not fair--it is not
appropriate to allow those counties where--that happened to
house correctional facilities to get a disproportionate share
of resources as well as political power because they just
happened to be the place where incarcerated people are.
This is an--and I urge--Congressman Clay has got a bill
that would reverse this. Well, he is not here but his seat is
there, and I think we need to make a priority to push that bill
through the Congress so that this is not the case in the 2030
census.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
Ms. Gupta. I was just going to say amen.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
Mr. Gomez. Thank you. I think time has expired or frozen in
time. It was, like, 14 seconds for a minute.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Gomez. I would like to recognize Ms. Wasserman Shultz
from Florida for questions.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Recently--and welcome to our panelists. Thank you so much
for being here and for your work every single day.
Recently, the Census Bureau announced a paid media campaign
that includes targeted hard-to-reach hard-to-count communities
so that we can increase messaging around the census because
that will, obviously, increase participation and make sure that
more robust funding is available when we know how many people
we have not been able to reach.
This culturally sensitive advertising is particularly vital
in a diverse district like mine, which includes Latin American
migrants whose trust in government has been seriously eroded
due to the Trump administration's attempt to propose a
citizenship question.
Specifically, I represent Broward and Miami-Dade Counties
in south Florida, which are considered among the hardest-to-
count counties in my state, according to the City University of
New York.
So, there are, obviously, major concerns about gaps in
media coverage in my own community and many places just like it
around the country.
If hard-to-count groups are not properly engaged on the
importance and timeline for the census it could lead to a
significant undercount and, for example, there is a question
mark in Florida over whether or not we will have--we will add
one seat or two seats to our congressional delegation, and this
media campaign could make a very significant difference in
whether it is one or two and then, you know, if you have more
elected officials representing your state, more advocacy, more
resources, to say nothing of the allocation with Federal and
state formulas based on the census.
So, Mr. Morial, it is good to see you. Really glad you are
here. One of the things that I am concerned about is that there
is likely a gap in the outreach budget that the administration
has announced to count African Americans.
What effects could a gap in media and communication
advertising have in the black community?
Mr. Morial. An undercount means that political
representation is going to be affected and an undercount means
that the allocation of Federal funds are going to be affected
and it goes all the way down the line.
It affects city council seats, county commission seats,
justice of the peace seats in rural areas, not to mention
members of the state legislature and Members of Congress and in
the 40 states that elect judges.
Some elect judges from districts. All of this could be
affected by an undercount and it is a particular concern for
African Americans, and I know other communities because our
populations have grown and we want the census to capture the
growth in our populations and that to be translated into the
reapportionment process, that to be translated into the process
in terms of how Federal funds are allocated.
So, it is a grave issue. It is important that the count be
complete and accurate.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. To be clear, specifically, like you
said, the African-American population is growing. So, if there
is an undercount, because of the way redistricting works, you
have decisions made about where in a state or in a community a
new district would be added.
If you undercount the population that has grown, then that
community is less likely to get representation they would have
otherwise gotten had the community count been maximized.
Mr. Morial. At the least the vote dilution and when you add
that--add to that the fact that we don't have Section 5 for the
southern states at this point in time, the risk is grave and
that is why we are so--all of us, I think, here are united in
saying to you, as the House Oversight Committee, the power is
in your hands to hold census accountable and for them--Mr.
Vargas talked about a Plan B. I talked about a state of
emergency.
Whatever is required between now and March, April, the
Census Bureau has got to step up its game. It has got to fill
in these gaps.
It has got to respond to the concerns we have raised today.
Or the risk for the Nation and the risk for our communities is
grave.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. And as I heard you say earlier,
specifically, having a media outreach campaign in between when
the----
Mr. Morial. Enumerators.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz.--the enumerators begin going door to
door so that there is awareness that they are coming, so that
you have--I know when I go door to door in my district, if I
send a mailing into that precinct announcing I am coming, the
open rate of the door is more significant because they are less
fearful and more----
Mr. Morial. And we also can't let Census Bureau trick us
because they have got these terms, nonresponse followup and
primary. So, you know, advertising campaign has got to run all
the way to the end.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Right.
Mr. Morial. Until the final day when people can fill out a
form or respond to the census.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you so much.
And in my last few seconds, Mr. Allis, I represent the
Seminole tribe of Florida, and, clearly, Native Americans would
be a population that is usually undercounted. A lack of trust,
a lack of confidence in the official government of the United
States.
So, what kind of outreach are you aware of that has been
included by the administration to make sure that there is not
an undercount among Native Americans?
Mr. Allis. Thank you, Congresswoman, for that question.
As Congresswoman Haaland asked me to mention, you know, was
the Census Bureau what it needed to do to connect with Indian
Country, and over the course of the last 10 years they have
self-identified barriers and hurdles and things that do need to
be addressed, which includes language, which includes, you
know, knowledge about why--what is the purpose of the census,
how do you even fill the thing out--you know, all those kinds
of things.
Our concern is even though they have been properly funded,
a lot of that stuff just hasn't happened correctly, okay, and
their shift in the way they want to hire people and maneuver
people around and set up, you know, their infrastructure
doesn't align with addressing those particular----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. It is not about just throwing money
at it.
Mr. Allis. No, you talked about media outreach. We have a
lot of issues there. You know, Alaska starts in two weeks they
intended--the goal was that this media campaign would have
started five months ago.
It started in middle of December, and when it started in
middle of December, there were mispronunciations of the
villages and of the tribes and it was just not clean.
And that is not connecting the dots, that is them not doing
their homework and working with Indian Country and preparing an
awareness and a visibility that understands who the community
is that it is trying to target.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. When you have a president of the
United States who, even today, continues to malign the Native
American community by disparaging a candidate--a Democratic
candidate for president with a derisive--intentionally derisive
and offensive moniker.
You can see what kind of respect they lack for the Native
American community and the goal of counting them.
Mr. Chairman, thank you so much. I yield back.
Mr. Gomez. The votes have been called and there is about
nine minutes on the clock. So, after I am done with my
questioning we will adjourn this hearing.
So, I recognize myself for questions.
First, let me thank all the panelists for coming. This is
an issue that--I studied the census when I was in grad school
back in 2001 and 2002. So, yes, I was that dork who studied the
census.
But I also understood what it means, right, in the history
of this country, what it means when it comes to either the
marginalization or the empowerment of particular communities,
and what it means for drafting policies that reflect that
changing demographic where people live, how they live, what
they look like, what are the issues that they are getting
impacted by.
And that is what the census is all about. I want to
encourage my colleagues on the other side of the aisle that the
census is not--shouldn't be used to marginalize communities, to
silence voices, because the changing demographics that are
occurring in this country I believe, and I have been seeing it
for the last 20, 30 years, is inevitable.
As sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west,
it will occur, and there are brown Latinos that live in rural
Georgia, Asians that live in the Midwest as well as African
Americans that live in the northeast, right.
This country is just changing. So, we want to make sure
that everybody is counted because that is how you have a truly
representative democracy.
So, with that, I want to kind of ask a few questions.
Mr. Vargas, you are familiar with my district.
Mr. Vargas. Yes, sir. I am a constituent.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Gomez. I want to just have a question. A lot of people
talked about partnership specialists.
What have you been hearing on the ground about the
effectiveness of the newly hired partnership specialists within
the Latino community and are they generally fluent in Spanish
and are they culturally sensitive?
Mr. Vargas. Some are, and in fact they have hired some very
excellent partnership specialists across the country that we
have had the opportunity to work with.
But there also have been other partnerships with
specialists that in our opinion have been not well deployed in
the sense that they don't have the skill sets, the language to
work in the community where they are being deployed by the
Census Bureau, and in other cases because of the timing and the
rush to hire enough people they are not adequately trained. And
so they are misinformed about the full range of the census
operation.
So, those are the concerns that we have at this point.
Mr. Gomez. Thank you.
Another issue that is becoming extremely urgent in
California is just the growing homelessness population. It is
something that I know that there is a 130,000-plus homeless
individuals in California, 58,000 in L.A. County alone.
Ms. Gupta, what do you see as the barriers to counting the
homeless population and do you think that the Census Bureau has
the strategy to actually ensure that they are counted?
Ms. Gupta. Well, they are among the most vulnerable
population. The Bureau in part because of their transients in
communities and the like and I think--and the Bureau is really
going to need to work with direct service providers, mobile
food units, shelter, soup kitchens and the like as well as
enumerating at outdoor locations and some 24-hour businesses to
get an accurate count.
The Bureau does have some strategies that they have put in
place but we have been urging them to do more with direct
service providers in the way that I just--that I just mentioned
and also to coordinate really intensively with hard-to-count
community leaders to prepare a lot of community leaders that
are running these direct service soup kitchens and the like.
They know where the homeless populations are seasonally in
their districts.
And so having a very close net coordination is going to be
really vital to ensuring that homeless people are counted.
Mr. Gomez. And one of the things that I would just like to
point out is that homelessness is not just occurring in
California but throughout the country.
Ms. Gupta. Yes.
Mr. Gomez. And that is going to be a challenge for blue
states as well as red states, urban areas as well as rural
areas.
So, thank you so much for all the witnesses for being here
and testifying on this important issue. Now it is time to make
sure that we get the count that we need.
Before I end with some announcements, I would like to give
the ranking member a few seconds to thank the witnesses.
Mr. Jordan. I thank the chairman. Yes, we had a debate
there at the front end and I didn't get a chance to thank you
all for being here. Appreciate what you do and appreciate your
testimony today.
Thank you.
Mr. Gomez. Thank you to the ranking member.
First, this is the first in a series we will be having on
census oversight this year and we will be sure to raise these
points that you have made with the Director of the Census
Bureau Dillingham when he comes before the committee on
February 12 as mentioned earlier.
So, I want to just thank everybody for their hard, hard
work.
Without objection, all members will have five legislative
days within which to submit additional written questions for
the witnesses to the Chair, which will be forwarded to the
witnesses for their response.
I ask our witnesses to please respond as promptly as you
are able. Thank you for participating and this hearing is now
adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 1:58 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
[all]