[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
HAITI ON THE BRINK: ASSESSING U.S. POLICY TOWARD A COUNTRY IN CRISIS
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, CIVILIAN SECURITY, AND TRADE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
DECEMBER 10, 2019
__________
Serial No. 116-85
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov,
or www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
38-545 PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York, Chairman
BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York Member
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida JOE WILSON, South Carolina
KAREN BASS, California SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts TED S. YOHO, Florida
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin
DINA TITUS, Nevada ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
DEAN PHILLPS, Minnesota JOHN CURTIS, Utah
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota KEN BUCK, Colorado
COLIN ALLRED, Texas RON WRIGHT, Texas
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania GREG PENCE, Indiana
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey STEVE WATKINS, Kansas
DAVID TRONE, Maryland MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
JIM COSTA, California
JUAN VARGAS, California
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
Amy Porter, Chief of Staff
Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director
Jason Steinbaum, Democrat Staff Director
Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
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Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, and Trade
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey, Chairman
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida,
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas Ranking Member
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota TED S. YOHO, Florida
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan JOHN CURTIS, Utah
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas KEN BUCK, Colorado
JUAN VARGAS, California MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
Name, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
Esperance, Mr. Pierre, Executive Director, Haitian National Human
Rights Defense Network......................................... 7
Douyon, Ms. Emmanuela, Nou Pap Domi.............................. 16
Erikson, Mr. Daniel, Managing Director, Blue Star Strategies..... 25
Hermantin, Ms. Leonie Marie, Director of Development,
Communications, and Strategic Planning, Sant La Haitian
Neighborhood Center............................................ 38
Garrastazu, Dr. Antonio, Regional Director, Latin America and the
Caribbean, International Republican Institute.................. 42
APPENDIX
Hearing Notice................................................... 80
Hearing Minutes.................................................. 81
Hearing Attendance............................................... 82
STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD
Statement for the record submitted from Chairman Sires........... 83
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR THE RECORD
Statement for the record submitted from Representative Waters.... 86
RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Responses to questions submitted for the record from
Representative Sires........................................... 88
HAITI ON THE BRINK: ASSESSING U.S. POLICY TOWARD A COUNTRY IN CRISIS
Tuesday, December 10, 2019
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,
Civilian Security and Trade,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room
2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Albio Sires (chairman
of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Sires [presiding]. Good morning, everyone.
This hearing will come to order. This hearing, titled
``Haiti on the Brink: Assessing U.S. Policy Toward a Country in
Crisis,'' will focus on U.S. policy toward Haiti and whether it
is advancing our strategic objectives and contributing to peace
and institutional strengthening in the country.
Without objection, all members might have 5 days to submit
statements, questions, and extraneous material for the record,
subject to the length limitation in the rules.
I will now make an opening statement and, then, turn it
over to the ranking member for his opening statement.
Good morning, everyone, and thank you to our witnesses for
being here today.
This hearing comes at a critical time for Haiti. For much
of the past year, that country has been gripped by a political
and economic crisis. Many factors are contributing to this
concerning situation.
Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere,
with nearly 60 percent of Haitians living on less than $2 a
day. Increasing inflation and rising cost of living have made
life even more difficult for many Haitians already struggling
to get by.
At the same time, the administration of President Jovenel
Moise has been unable to form a government, and the legislature
has rejected his last two nominees for Prime Minister.
Scheduled elections did not take place in October, creating the
real possibility that the Chamber of Deputies will dissolve in
January and President Moise will be ruling by decree.
Yet, the street demonstrations have been seen in Haiti and
appear to reflect even deeper discontent. It seems that the
Haitian people have had enough of political elites who they
feel do not represent them and advocate for their own
interests.
I hear this frustration. As someone who is deeply engaged
in our hemisphere and who wants the best for Haiti, I believe
it is completely unacceptable that some Haitian politician
leaders are living lavishly while the people continue to
suffer.
I note that, for many Haitian people, corruption is not an
abstract concept. Corruption helps explain why half of the
country is undernourished. Corruption contributes to Haiti's
extremely low adult literacy rate of just 60 percent, and
corruption tells an important part of the story behind the
roads that still have not been replaced following the
devastating earthquake in 2010. In other words, the funds
stolen by government officials through the PetroCaribe program
did not merely disappear into thin air. These were dollars that
should have been used to improve people's lives and were,
instead, used to line the pockets of the political powerful.
With today's hearing, I want to send a clear message to the
Haitian people that members of the U.S. Congress recognize this
profound injustice.
This hearing is also about assessing U.S. policy and
foreign assistance programs. I know that we have dedicated
staff working for USAID and the State Department in Haiti who
are trying to help improve the situation in the country, but I
believe we need to think critically about how we can better
support the Haitian people.
For instance, I am very worried about the human rights
situation in the country. I urge the State Department to push
for full investigations into the Saline massacre last year and
allegation of excessive use of force against protesters in
recent months.
It is clear to me that a prosperous and fully democratic
Haiti is in the United States' best interest. Moreover, the
United States relationship with the Haitian people is not a
one-way street. We know that Haitian-Americans and Haitian-born
residents living in the United States provide a crucial support
for their home country and lift up our economies as well.
That is part of why I have consistently defended Temporary
Protected Status for Haitians. I want to thank my good friend,
Senator Menendez, for issuing a report last month that
highlighted the contributions of 56,000 Haitian TPS holders who
have been living in our country and strengthening our
economies. I will continue to work with my colleagues to defend
TPS for Haitians. I will also work to protect the United States
taxpayers' resources.
It is for this reason that I will continue to oppose any
effort to use U.S. assistance for funding the Haitian military,
which is unnecessary and diverts resources away from the
National Police. I appreciate Congressman Levin's leadership on
this and his deep engagement with Haiti.
I hope that this hearing enables us to have an honest
discussion about the extent to which our current policy is
helping combat corruption, tackle poverty, and promote human
rights and the rule of law in Haiti. And I look forward to a
bipartisan conversation about what more can be done to help the
Haitian people. Thank you.
And I now turn to the ranking member, who is not here, but
he just showed up--so, this is what we call perfect timing in
Congress--my good friend, Ted Yoho from Florida.
Mr. Yoho. I apologize for being late to everybody.
Thank you for being here.
Mr. Chairman, since its transition from dictatorship to
democracy in 1987, Haiti has struggled with political
instability, extreme poverty, corruption, and other endemic
challenges that have hindered its growth and prosperity.
According to the World Bank, Haiti is the poorest country in
the Western Hemisphere. It had a GDP per capita of $870 in 2018
and ranked 168 out of 189 countries in the Human Development
Index. Nearly 60 percent of the population lives below the
national poverty line; 24 percent make less than $1.23 per day.
While the extreme poverty is largely a product of
corruption and inept governance, devastating environmental
disasters have also contributed, such as the 2010 earthquake
and Hurricane Matthew in 2016, which caused damage in Haiti
equal to 32 percent of the country's GDP.
The United States is committed to supporting the Haitian
people and has a vested interest in seeing a prosperous and
stable democracy in Haiti. Further, Haiti recognizes interim
President Juan Guaido as the leader of Venezuela and maintains
relationships with Taiwan, and should be commended for doing
so.
However, recent events in the country highlight the
continued fragility of Haiti's democracy. During current
President Moise's tenure, the country has seen widespread
unrest and allegations of government corruption that have
resulted in the resignation of two Prime Ministers and
widespread calls for the President's resignation. However, the
President has refused to step down, and sectors of the
government have ground to a halt.
For example, Haitian legislators have blocked efforts to
confirm the new Prime Minister and foiled multiple attempts to
ratify the government. This has led to increased social unrest,
demonstrations resulting in the death of more than 42 people
and hundreds injured. Further, the lack of electoral law
threatens to force the dissolution of Congress and the
continued postponement of an election is very concerning.
The United States remains a major donor of foreign
assistance to Haiti. In Fiscal Year 2019, the U.S. provided
$139.8 million in assistance and the Trump Administration's
Fiscal Year request included $145.5 million in assistance. This
assistance is focused on emergency food aid and distribution,
global health programs, education, and security.
Further, the United Nations has a continued presence over
the last 15 years. Various U.N. initiatives have focused on
restoring order and building Haitian National Police into a
professional police force of over 14,000 officers in charge of
domestic security. However, the police remain underfunded and
are in need of continued support. The U.N.'s Mission for
Justice and Support in Haiti, which replaced a larger
peacekeeping mission in 2017, sought to strengthen judicial
institutions and protect human rights. In 2019, the United
Nations transitioned its mandate to an integrated office in
Haiti to advise the government on strengthening political
stability and good governance through an inclusive national
dialog.
Going forward, the United States must continue to support
the Haitian people and work toward economic prosperity,
democratic stability, and respect for human rights. We want a
peaceful and inclusive resolution to the political crisis and
urge all sides to respect the rule of law and the Haitian
constitution. At the same time, the Haitian government has a
responsibility to be responsive to the needs of the Haitian
people and investigate all reports of human rights violations.
I look forward to this hearing. Here we are in the 21st
century. I have people come into my office in Gainesville,
Florida, from Haiti that are in pharmacy school, and we talk
about the situation in Haiti. He wants to graduate in pharmacy
and go back to help rebuild Haiti. We were talking about water.
He said less than 20 percent of the people in Haiti have
potable water. This is unacceptable. We are in the 21st century
in the Western Hemisphere. It is not from a lack of resources.
It is from a lack of people that get elected or put into office
that will not put the people of Haiti first. They put
themselves first, and this is something that has to change. I
would hope in the Western Hemisphere we would all come together
to make this a fruition and reality.
With that, I yield back and thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ranking Member.
I want to welcome at this time Congresswoman Barbara Lee
from California and Congresswoman Frederica Wilson from
Florida. Thank you.
And we will now go to our panel. I will now introduce Mr.
Pierre Esperance, Executive Director of the Haitian National
Human Rights Defense Network. As a leading human rights
defender in Haiti, Mr. Esperance has worked with the National
Human Rights Defense Network since 1995 to promote human
rights, rule of law, and government accountability in Haiti. In
2002, he was awarded the Human Rights Award from the U.S.
Embassy in Port-au-Prince.
Mr. Esperance, we welcome you. Thank you.
We will then hear from Ms. Emmanuela Douyon. Ms. Douyon is
an economist and a leader of the PetroChallenge and Nou Pap
Domi social movement demanding greater government
accountability and transparency in the wake of PetroCaribe
scandal.
Ms. Douyon, thank you for joining us today.
We will then hear from Mr. Daniel Erikson, Managing
Director of Blue Star Strategies and Senior Fellow at the Penn
Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement. He previously
served as a special advisor to Vice President Biden and as a
senior policy advisor at the U.S. Department of State.
Mr. Erikson, thank you for joining us.
We will then hear from Ms. Leonie Marie Hermantin. Born in
Haiti, Ms. Hermantin grew up in New York City and holds a Juris
Doctorate from the University of California at Berkeley and a
Master's degree in urban environmental planning. She is the
Director of Development, Communications, and Strategic Planning
at Sant La Haitian Neighborhood Center, an organization focused
on supporting south Florida's Haitian community.
Ms. Hermantin, thank you.
Finally, we will hear from Dr. Antonio Garrastazu, Regional
Director for Latin America and the Caribbean at the
International Republican Institute. Dr. Garrastazu manages
programs and initiatives across 16 countries in the hemisphere
focused on governance, legislative strengthening, political
inclusion, and election integrity. He holds a Bachelor's degree
in history and political science from the University of
Florida, as well as a Master's and Doctorate in international
studies from the University of Miami.
Dr. Garrastazu, thank you for being here.
I ask the witnesses to please limit your testimony to 5
minutes, and without objection, your prepared written
statements will be made a part of the record.
Mr. Esperance, you and your interpreter will be allowed 10
minutes to provide the subcommittee with simultaneous
translation.
This is the first time we are doing this. Will you please
tell him that?
Non-committee members will also be joining us in this
hearing. Without objection, I ask for unanimous consent, so
that the Members of Congress who are not members of this
subcommittee may be recognized to participate in the hearing
and question the witnesses after subcommittee members have had
the opportunity to do so. Do I hear unanimous consent?
Mr. Yoho. No objection.
Mr. Sires. Okay. Mr. Esperance, I now turn to you.
STATEMENT MR. PIERRE ESPERANCE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HAITIAN
NATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS DEFENSE NETWORK
Mr. Esperance. [Mr. Esperance speaks through a translator.]
Chairman Sires and all the members of the committee, we would
like to thank you for this hearing that you have on the ongoing
situation in Haiti. It has been 20 years, in fact, more than 20
years, since we have had a hearing on human rights issues in
Haiti in Congress.
My name is Pierre Esperance and I am the Executive Director
of RNDDH. RNDDH is a human rights organization that works on
education, promotion, and also the monitoring of human rights
in Haiti.
Amongst many pressing human rights validation issues in
Haiti, I will highlight five of them. The first one would be
the proliferation of armed gangs that are being protected by
the State. Since 2018, the current administration in Haiti has
used armed gangs to repress political dissent in Haiti. As a
result, we have had at least five massacres in Haiti. The
largest massacre was the one that was perpetrated in November
2018 in La Saline. Seventy-one people were killed during that
massacre, children and adults. Eleven women were raped and at
least 400 homes were destroyed. When you take the totality of
these massacres, there has been at least 127 people that have
been killed.
With the proliferation of gangs in security in Haiti, there
has been also an increasing insecurity in the country. The
gangs are, in fact, even better armed than the police itself.
Just for this year, we have had 44 police officers that were
killed.
Second, we have violence and repression against those who
are demonstrating against the Haitian government. Since July
2018 to today, we have had at least 187 people that have been
killed and 42 of those people were shot in the head.
Third, there is a politicization of the Haitian judicial
system. For example, all cases that are implicating
authorities, like the La Saline case and the PetroCaribe case,
they are all blocked by the judicial system. The authorities
use the judicial system to persecute the opposition members.
For instance, there has been arbitrary arrests of protesters.
Fourth is the question of pretrial detention. Seventy-four
percent of people are still awaiting trial from the prison
population. The prison population can only accommodate about
3,000 people. But, in fact, today we have more than 11,000
people who are imprisoned.
Fifth is the non-respect of constitutional process. The
Haitian authorities were supposed to have elections that were
scheduled for October of this year, October 2019. The elections
did not take place for the following reasons: the President did
not use his majority empowerment to pass an electoral law or a
budget. And they also introduced a new national ID card that
was illegally done. It is illegal because this was not approved
either by parliament, by the legislators, or by the National
Court of Auditors.
As a result, in January of next year, January 2020, the
Haitian parliament will no longer exist and the President will
be able to rule only by decree. It is a very concerning issue
for the Haitian population because the country, the Nation is
involved in corruption; also, in systematic violation of human
rights, and also in its support for gangs.
Considering all the situations that we are going through
right now in Haiti, the Haitian population is asking for a
resignation of the current government. Because of those
reasons, we are asking the U.S. Congress to do the following:
To encourage the Haitian authorities to stop arming and
protecting the gangs;
To stop politicizing the police and judicial institutions;
To fight against contraband,
And also, encourage Haitian authorities to provide
information regarding PetroCaribe funds and, also, the
massacres perpetrated since 2018, and to better explain the
rationale behind the creation of the new national ID card.
And also, for the U.S. authorities to monitor the illegal
entry of arms and ammunition that are coming to Haiti.
Thank you for your attention.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Esperance follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Sires. Thank you very much.
Ms. Douyon.
STATEMENT OF MS. EMMANUELA DOUYON, NOU PAP DOMI
Ms. Douyon. Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Rooney, and
other distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you all
for the opportunity to speak about the ongoing situation in
Haiti. This hearing is an important step in recognizing the
ongoing challenges the country is facing, and I look forward to
sharing the perspectives of Nou Pap Domi with you today.
For the past 18 months, the Haitian population has engaged
in massive nationwide protests demanding increased government
accountability. A movement called PetroChallenge emerged with
two main grievances: government impunity and government
corruption. This accountability movement is fueled by reports
from both the Senate and the Court of Auditors outlining the
misappropriation of an estimated $3.8 billion from the
PetroCaribe fund. Successive Haitian administrations and
officials have been implicated, including sitting President
Moise.
The response to the nationwide accountability movement has
been varied. There are attempts to undermine accountability
efforts. None of the officials implicated in the PetroCaribe
corruption scandal have been held judicially accountable.
Violence is used against protesters. Amnesty
International's October report called on the government to
protect the rights of protesters. There are attacks on the
press. Journalists reporting on corruption and the popular
movement have received threats and come under attack. Some even
lost their lives.
Armed gangs and State officials massacre civilians. They do
this to repress dissent in neighborhoods such as La Saline and
Bel Air. No one has faced charges for these crimes.
This is a latent crisis that has finally exploded.
Haitians, PetroChallengers, in particular, are committed to
fighting corruption which is robbing them of the future.
Besides, the economic situation in Haiti has worsened during
Moise's presidency. Armed gangs that enjoy the protection of
State officials proliferate. There is a consensus that Haiti's
governmental system is broken and must be transformed to
actually foster social equity and inclusion. Citizens from all
sectors of civil society in both rural and urban areas are
calling for the President to step down.
To date, the U.S. Administration has largely stood by the
Moise government. The U.S. has been recommending dialogs since
2018, but the implication of high-level officials in acts of
corruption and human rights violation has thwarted their
legitimacy to lead national dialogs. Besides, the demand of the
population is for systemic change.
The U.S. has recommended the formation of a new government,
but it is morally difficult to encourage citizens to work with
a President that has been indicted in corruption. President
Moise has already formed two governments during his 2 years in
office. The reshuffling of the cabinet will not resolve the
current crisis.
The U.S. called to organize an election, but Haitian
citizens see election as problematic and exclusionary within
the current context. After the needed systematic reforms,
organization elections is a priority for the transitional
government. Haitian youth and civil society groups are willing
to engage in the electoral process more actively in order to
influence change.
Moving forward, it appears increasingly likely that the
President will not be able to complete his term. In January,
the President will rule by decree without a legitimate Prime
Minister and a parliament. This is a serious governance
imbalance that raises several concerns. Many political actors
and civil society organizations are collaborating to define a
roadmap for the political transition.
As of now, the international community does not support a
political transition, but they must listen to the legitimate
demand of the Haitian people. If the U.S. wants to support a
sustainable way forward for Haiti, it must finally take its
lead from Haitian civil society and support systemic reform.
Corrupt officials cannot fight against corruption. The U.S.
failure to stand with the legitimate demand of the current
movement provides political cover for government corruption and
impunity. That further undermines the right of the population,
democracy, the rule of law, and stability. The U.S.'s decades-
long focus on short-term stability over rule of law has failed
and must be reevaluated.
Thanks for your time. I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Douyon follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Mr. Erikson, you are recognized.
STATEMENT OF MR. DANIEL ERIKSON, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BLUE STAR
STRATEGIES
Mr. Erikson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you,
Ranking Member Yoho, for organizing this hearing and for your
opening remarks, which I found to be quite wise. And I would
also like to thank the other members of the committee and of
Congress who are here today.
I will briefly address the current situation in Haiti, but
the focus of my remarks will be on what the United States and
the broader international community should do to address the
Haitian crisis in 2020. When I was in Haiti last month, one
thing became very clear: Haiti today is experiencing its most
profound political, economic, and social crisis in a
generation. And it will get worse next January, when the
Congress dissolves, there is no political accord, the economy
withers, security worsens, corruption remains unchecked, and
millions will face emergency levels of food insecurity.
How did the Haiti crisis become so severe? I see three
overlapping crises. The first is the decades-long struggle for
Haiti to achieve a basic level of governability and a
sustainable economy. The second crisis emerges from the
development and decisions during the administration of
President Jovenel Moise, who assumed office in February 2017,
and the resulting political gridlock, the protests, and the
country lockdown, or ``peyi lock,'' as it is known in Creole,
that devastated the economy and jeopardized the well-being of
millions of Haitians.
And all of this has occurred against the backdrop of a
third crisis, a crisis of apathy and indifference among
Haitians international allies and partners. This is a crisis of
apathy that I believe this committee is best positioned to
address.
Haiti has suffered periods of sharp deterioration before,
coups, earthquakes, hurricanes, political unrest, and in
virtually every instance the international community, led by
the United States, has sought to identify core problems, work
toward practical solutions, and reduce human suffering. Not
every engagement has been successful, but important lessons
have been learned.
The first is that, if the United States does not lead, no
one else will step up to take our place.
Second, the results have been more successful and more
sustainable when the U.S. has been joined by partners across
the hemisphere as well as allies in Europe and key
international institutions like the Organization of American
States, the United Nations, and the multilateral development
banks.
The third lesson is that, while Haiti will never achieve
political consensus, political compromise can be obtainable,
but only when the international community joins forces and
Haitian political leaders understand both the stakes and the
consequences.
I believe the time is ripe to propose new approaches.
Without a change in course, Haiti's deterioration will continue
in ways that will be damaging both for the Haitian people and
for the national security of the United States and our nearest
neighbors in the Caribbean.
As we turn to 2020, a year that will mark the 30th
anniversary of Haiti's first democratic election and the 10th
anniversary of the tragic Haitian earthquake that claimed so
many lives, Haiti must assume a more central role on the U.S.
foreign policy agenda.
As an initial series of steps, I recommend the following:
The first is that the United States Secretary of State
should convene a ministerial-level meeting of the Haiti Core
Group, which consists of counterparts from Brazil, Canada,
France, Germany, Spain, the European Union, the United Nations,
and the Organization of American States, with the objective of
formulating a comprehensive strategy to help Haiti meet
humanitarian needs and create a pathway for negotiations with
Haitian partners for an agreed timeframe for new congressional
and Presidential elections.
Second, the United States and the Core Group should, then,
spearhead a Haiti economic strategy and humanitarian relief
session on the margins of the IMF-World Bank annual meetings
that will occur in April 2020, including international relief
groups and NGO's, with the objective of identifying how to
rapidly surge food aid and economic support into Haiti's
hardest-hit communities and ward off the possibility of severe
malnutrition or even famine forecast to affect up to 4 million
Haitians in 2020.
Third, I believe we need a comprehensive review of U.S. and
international security assistance to Haiti, with the objective
of strengthening the Haitian National Police and ensuring that
funds are not diverted either into the Haitian army or
paramilitary apparatuses that threaten the rule of law and
human rights.
Fourth, I believe that the U.S. should consider the
extension of Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, for Haitians
in the United States past the 2021 expiration date and examine
the possibilities for humanitarian parole for needy Haitians or
for those whose lives are at serious risk.
And last, the U.S. Congress could consider establishing a
short-term working group of Members to create a more active
role for Congress to monitor developments and ensure that Haiti
occupies a prominent place on the U.S. foreign policy agenda
next year, with the aim of a full restoration of an elected
democratic government as soon as possible and certainly by no
later than 2021.
The crisis in Haiti, in conclusion, is deep, complex, and
cannot be solved by the Haitians alone or by the United States
or by any other single country or international actor. However,
I am confident the members of this committee, working together
with the U.S. Administration and the broader international
community, can do considerably more to help put Haiti back to a
prominent place on the U.S. regional and international agenda.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Erikson follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Ms. Hermantin.
STATEMENT OF MS. LEONIE MARIE HERMANTIN, DIRECTOR OF
DEVELOPMENT, COMMUNICATIONS, AND STRATEGIC PLANNING, SANT LA
HAITIAN NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER
Ms. Hermantin. Good morning. I would like to take this
opportunity to thank the chair, the ranking member, and
distinguished members of the subcommittee. I also would like to
thank Congresswoman Wilson for the opportunity for the Haitian
diaspora to be represented.
This hearing is timely because Haiti is, yet again, at
another crossroads. We face, yet again, another crisis, but
this time it is manmade.
I am really humbled by the great presentations made from my
predecessors here. And so, I will not talk about the political
situation. I will limit my remarks to our concerns from the
diaspora's perspective, both the humanitarian crisis and the
issue on security.
I am here as a member of the Haitian diaspora. In the
United States alone, there are over a million persons of
Haitian ancestry, the majority of whom are naturalized or U.S.-
born citizens.
Our diaspora is a very diverse one, and we do not all speak
in one voice. But I can speak with total certainty that we are
united on key points.
One, that we are extremely concerned about what is
happening in Haiti today, and that Haiti's poverty offends us
deeply. We are hard-working people with exemplary work ethic
and entrepreneurial spirit. Our people deserve better.
Like many of you, we are confounded by the lack of results
from U.S. investments in Haiti. And like the PetroChallengers
demand to know what happened to billions of PetroCaribe funds,
we, too, want to know about the impact of billions of U.S.
taxpayer dollars invested in Haiti for the past 30 years. Why
are you still calling Haiti the poorest country in the Western
Hemisphere after our government has invested so much in so many
programs?
We all agree that the current status quo which supports
corruption and violation of the rule of law must be done with.
It is time. We all agree that Haiti needs to invest in
education, health, infrastructure, agricultural reform, job
creation, and constitutional reforms. We all agree on that. And
we also believe that Haitians must resolve their problems.
First, I will quickly talk about the humanitarian crisis,
which has been covered in-depth here. The crisis began in 2018
and, as you can imagine, in a fragile economy like Haiti, the
smallest shock can upend the lives of a great majority. One of
the ways that many in Haiti have been able to survive is with
support of family and friends in the diaspora. According to the
World Bank, remittances from the diaspora to Haiti reached
record levels in 2018, amounting to $3.1 billion from $2.4
billion in 2017, a 30 percent increase.
This current crisis has a direct financial impact on
Haitian-American households, as we are often the economic
lifeline for families back home. Data indicates that 90 percent
of remittances come from North America.
I will skip and talk about the security crisis. This crisis
that we are currently facing also has a lot to do with
insecurity, and that affects us in many ways. Many of us in the
diaspora are concerned by the inability of the Haitian
government to guarantee our security. We are concerned about
the gang arms. We are concerned about what appears to be an
extremely chaotic situation, and that has forced us to cancel
personal humanitarian and business trips to Haiti.
When it comes to Haiti, the U.S. has made it clear that it
believes in elections and democratic process, but has ignored
the Haitian people's relentless demands for change. It is
clear, paradoxically, that the U.S.'s position is more flexible
in other parts of the world. In Hong Kong, for example, we
proudly stand with the people and not the elected leaders. We
believe, as Haitians and as Americans, that it is important for
the U.S. to listen and respect the voices of the people. We
Haitian-Americans will welcome bipartisan support for the
Haitian people in their call for justice and social-economic
inclusion.
We also want to encourage you to cover cross-border
corruptions. We know where the dollars are siphoned to. We need
them to be brought back to Haiti.
We also recommend that the U.S. work in partnership with
Haitians locally and the diaspora in the United States and
abroad, as opposed to the big, international development
organizations.
We need to be more creative and stop using unsuccessful
strategies with the same actors. And I am talking about USAID,
who proposed the same programs under different titles to get
the same results. The Haitian people and the diaspora demand
accountability and transparency, neither of which is always
forthcoming under the current USAID practices.
I will take these last seconds to sound an alarm about the
humanitarian crisis that is in the making in Haiti. We know it
is going to happen. And as Mr. Erikson just stated, it is going
to be of gigantic proportion, very scary. We cannot close our
ears, mind, or our hearts. We have to be prepared. The
indicators do not lie.
And again, we like talking about the policies. U.S.
agencies in Haiti often take the route and funnel their support
through bilateral and multilateral agencies, the usual
suspects. We believe that a better strategy is to leverage the
diaspora to maximize U.S. investments.
I will end with a quote from Martin Luther King. ``Why
should there be hunger and deprivation in any land, in any
city, at any table, when man has the resources, the scientific
knowhow to provide all mankind with the basic necessities of
life? There's no deficit in resources. The deficit is in human
will.''
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Dr. Garrastazu.
STATEMENT OF DR. ANTONIO GARRASTAZU, REGIONAL DIRECTOR, LATIN
AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN, INTERNATIONAL REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE
Mr. Garrastazu. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member
Yoho, distinguished members of this subcommittee, thank you for
the opportunity to testify this morning.
Thank you, also, I must add, for organizing a hearing on
this topic critical to U.S. interests and the future of
democratic governance in Haiti.
Since the inauguration of President Noise in February 2017,
widespread protests have become commonplace, severely impacting
Haiti's governability. Mass protests swelled in September 2019,
really with no end in sight. Although protests are waning and
streets are quieter, demonstrations will likely continue, given
the opposition's demand the President step down.
Furthermore, the fact that elections for the entire Chamber
of Deputies, two-thirds of the Senate, and all local officials
should have taken place on October 27th of this year continue
to exacerbate the ongoing political impasse and an increasingly
fragile environment, creating a governance crisis in the new
year.
An unstable Haiti poses a risk to U.S. national security.
Haiti is a large recipient of U.S. aid in the region, second
only to Colombia. U.S. assistance to Haiti has traditionally
been focused on health, and in Fiscal Year 2020 only 4 percent
of the requested funding was allocated for democracy, human
rights, and governance, while 80 percent was for health-related
initiatives.
Concentration of development assistance at the national
level, however, has shown few results, as evidenced by the
current political and economic conditions. Efforts at
bolstering the capacity of local officials and civil society
organizations, youth, private sector, and using the talents and
resources of the diaspora community will provide a sustainable
path toward Haiti's journey to self-reliance.
Targeted foreign assistance on democracy, human rights, and
governance should really be a priority. Geopolitically, Haiti
serves as an important U.S. ally in the region. Haiti could be
considered a partner in countering malign Chinese interference
by preventing China from concluding, through its Belt and Road
Initiative, more opaque and economically questionable
infrastructure projects that bring unsustainable debt burdens
in this region and increase dependence on China.
From 2018 to 2019, there has also been a shift in Haiti's
approach to voting in the Organization of American States by
not recognizing the legitimacy of Nicolas Maduro as President
of Venezuela. Haiti also taken a similar stance on the
increasingly authoritarian government in Nicaragua.
Building the capacity of local governments and providing
supporting outside the capital Port-au-Prince I believe is
critical to enhancing accountability and State presence and
bringing institutions closer to citizens. Since 2016, IRI has
worked with municipal officials and civil society organizations
in Haiti's Greater North to strengthen their institutional
capacity, promote citizen engagement, and encourage
marginalized groups, including youth and women, to have a voice
and participate in political processes. Developing political
and administrative skills at the local level is much more
effective than the current top-down approach adopted by many
foreign assistance donors.
IRI has also been working with local CSOs across the Grand
North to improve advocacy and oversight of local governments.
The institute has supported the creation of grassroots
departmental networks with support from USAID. The creation of
these networks is significant because of the centralized nature
of decisionmaking in Haiti and the need to provide a voice to
leaders outside the capital and at the local level.
There are many political, economic, and security
challenges, as we have discussed, in Haiti's democratic
governance landscape that should be addressed through U.S.
foreign assistance. A cornerstone of this strategy is
strengthening local Haitian institutions. The following
recommendations could be a step in the right direction:
First, a sustained focus on local governments and
bolstering the capacity of civil society organizations is
necessary.
Second, a focus on youth to serve as agents of positive
changes in the communities is critical.
Third, there is a need for more public opinion research to
better understand the challenges Haitians face to effectively
design and implement the U.S. foreign assistance programs.
Fourth, private sector engagement has an important role to
play to ensure the sustainability of foreign investments.
Last, the U.S. should continue to work with Haiti's
diaspora community as a critical element in the foreign policy
assistance process.
Assessing U.S. policy toward Haiti, a country of perpetual
crisis, is never easy and really can be frustrating. Yet, U.S.
commitment to Haiti needs to remain strong. Haiti's proximity
to the United States, its regional geopolitical implications,
and relevance to our national security have never been more
important. Supporting a strong, committed, and empowered local
governance in Haiti is but one economically sensible tool at
the disposal of the U.S. foreign policy apparatus.
Thank you very much, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Garrastazu follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Sires. Thank you very much for your comments. And now,
we will go into questions, and I will start with myself and,
then, the ranking member, and the other members that are here.
This question is for Mr. Esperance. Mr. Esperance, I give
you a great deal of credit for speaking up on human rights in
Haiti because you are living there now. And my question is, how
concerned are you for your safety since they have so many
gangs?
Mr. Esperance. I believe that the work that I am doing is a
challenge. I never think about my own security because I can
move around and go where I want to go. But I think about the
people who live in popular neighborhoods that are being
massacred; they cannot go anywhere and they cannot move around
as I can. Fighting for human rights in Haiti is not something
that is easy. I have been a victim, as there are many threats,
but I will keep on working. I will keep on doing my work.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
I visited Haiti I think 2 years ago. And one of the things
that troubled me the most is when we met with the Prime
Minister. He has spoken about reinstating the army. And to me,
that was an indication that he is just not serious about taking
care of his people. I cannot believe that an island that small
or a place that small would need an army. I pointed out to him
that Costa Rica does not have an army and they are doing well.
I pointed out to him that I visited the police barracks, one of
the police barracks, and they did not even have a table to sit
on to have lunch. His answer was that the constitution of Haiti
requires an army. Well, a constitution can be changed and the
people come before anything else. So, if you are going to spend
that money on creating an army, why not invest it in the needs
of the people? I told him that I would never support any money
for Haiti that goes to the army in this Congress. And the
impression now that I get from everyone here is that this
situation could get out of hand very quickly, and I am very
concerned for the people of Haiti.
So, Mr. Erikson, if this situation gets out of hand
quickly, who should step in? Because, obviously, there is
corruption at the highest level. There are gangs roaming all
over Haiti. Who steps in? I mean, I know you mentioned about
the European Union and everybody else. They have got their
issues. So, is it time for somebody else to step in?
Mr. Erikson. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. A
few point I would like to make.
The first is for a long time the United Nations had stepped
in with the support of the U.S., Latin America, and others. And
from 2004 to 2019, there was a U.N. peacekeeping force which
was large at the beginning and, then, tailed off at the end.
Now there is a smaller political mission, but there is no
peacekeeping force in Haiti today, which is, I think, an
important distinction from the past several years.
Second, what Haiti really needs is a functional Haitian
National Police and a judicial system. In fact, the Haitian
National Police has become--and there are still problems,
admittedly--but it has become a more professionalized and
larger force over the last 10 years with the support of the
United States and with the support of the United Nations.
I do not think that the Haitian army is the correct
approach for the Haitian government to take at this time.
Mr. Sires. My concern--I hate to interrupt----
Mr. Erikson. Sure.
Mr. Sires [continuing]. But my concern is I think Mr.
Esperance pointed out that 41 police officers were killed this
year. I mean, who would want to join the police department when
you have this kind of atrocity going on?
Mr. Erikson. No, I mean, it is an excellent point. I think,
in essence, what is required in Haiti right now is some sort of
political solution that can alleviate the protests, restart the
economy, and get some semblance of governance. And the concern
I have right now is that solution is not going to emerge from
Haiti's political actors without intensified international
pressure and diplomatic engagement.
It is possible that what you allude to, basically, a larger
breakdown that forces someone to step in--I cannot name who
that would be, internationally or otherwise--could take place,
but I think that is still preventable, but only if we get to
political accord and the clock is ticking, because congress,
most of it, will cease to be in office in Haiti in early
January. And that is going to leave a President who is already
extremely embattled ruling by decree without any broader sense
of political legitimacy.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
I now go to the ranking member.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I thank you all.
Oh, does he have a question?
Mr. Sires. Oh, I am sorry, sir.
Mr. Yoho. Yes, Okay.
Mr. Esperance. Haiti does not need an army right now, and
that is for many reasons. What we need is for the authorities
to reinforce the police and also the judicial system. And if
they give to the police the means to do their work, they can
actually provide security inside the country.
Mr. Sires. My time is up. I need to go to the other
members. Thank you very much.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I appreciate everybody's testimony.
Dr. Garrastazu, go Gators. That is right. For everybody
else that is not a Gator, sorry you could not get in.
Can I ask a question of the audience? How many people are
from Haiti or lived in Haiti?
[Show of hands.]
Wow, that is a good representation.
I live in Florida. I represent Florida's 3d congressional
District, where the University of Florida is. And I have lived
in Florida since the early sixties. And Haiti has been an issue
all that time. We have heard it referred to as a ``sewer
hole''. I probably have said that myself over the years. And it
was not President Trump that was the first to say that. We have
heard this over and over again.
And, Ms. Hermantin, you brought up something that the
chairman and I said before you spoke: the people of Haiti are
hard-working people. We have them in our State. We have them in
our district, and I have known a lot of them. But, yet, there
is that narrative out there that there is this problem with
Haiti. I think, Mr. Erikson, you brought up that the world has
become immune to Haiti because, you know, it is just Haiti;
that is what Haiti does.
How do we change that narrative? And I have got the Foreign
Affairs Committee Republicans' talking points: ``The U.S.
supports rule of law, adherence to the constitution, and
promotion of democracy in Haiti.''
Since approximately the last 10 years, we have invested $3
billion as a nation--$3 billion. And I hear this all the time
through different countries: rule of law, lack of corruption
build democracies, and we hear this over and over again. And I
think, Ms. Hermantin, you brought it up. It is like a broken
record. We say these things and we check them off because we
feel good about it, but the results do not change on the
ground.
And I ask, for the people of Haiti, how many have lived
there or are from there? You are the ones, this is your
country. What do we need to do to make a difference in Haiti
that we have not done in the past? We can do another USAID
project. Or what was their last thing: bring food over. How
effective is bringing gross quantities of food, how effective
is that to getting it out to the people that really need it?
Go ahead.
Ms. Hermantin. Well, bringing loads of food to the people
is part of the structural issues that Haiti faces because Haiti
is an agricultural nation----
Mr. Yoho. Right.
Ms. Hermantin [continuing]. Which produces food.
Mr. Yoho. And we are killing it.
Ms. Hermantin. But when you bring loads of rice, when you
bring imported food, you destabilize----
Mr. Yoho. Exactly, and we know that. But, yet, policymakers
or people that run these programs do not get it.
Ms. Hermantin. No.
Mr. Yoho. But, yet, it is a way for us to get it out there.
Let me go on to something because what I see, I heard
somebody say, ``I can get you to the dance floor; how well you
learn to dance is up to you.'' We can bring these programs, but
if we do not have somebody that is a leader in Haiti, that is
willing to stand up and say, ``I am going to do what is best
for the people of Haiti,'' nothing is going to change.
Because I forget which one--I think it was you, Dr.
Garrastazu--staying focused on local government, staying
focused on youth, but if there is not stable government, if
there is not rule of law, if there is not respect for the rule
of law or respect for the individual human rights, you can do
all that you want, but I am going to have to come back next
year and help you do it again, and the next year.
We have to have somebody that is willing to stand up in
Haiti, and the Haitian people need to demand this. We can
support that movement, but we cannot do a top-down from America
that says, ``You need a democracy.'' I want a stable government
in Haiti that is best for the Haitian people that we can work
with, that will put what is best for the people.
Go ahead. You were going to say something?
Mr. Garrastazu. Thank you, Ranking Member.
No, absolutely agree. And I think for sustainability there
needs to be political will; there need to be champions within
the community to really bring this to bear. And I think
strengthening the local institutions, working with the local
governments who have the voice of the people, who see the
people, where the people can actually see change, is very
important. It is also very important to have these structures
in place, so that health aid, or any other aid you want, has a
better place from which to stand. So, these political champions
I think are critical.
Mr. Yoho. I am running out of time, but I would love for
all of you to triage it. We know what the problems are. We
cannot fix them all at one time. We have to start somewhere,
and it has to start with some basic things and has to be rule
of law and respect for each other. And then, we can build from
that, and we have to have the people on the ground that are
willing to do that. Bring those people to us, so that we can
help them, if that is what they want for Haiti.
Mr. Chairman, thank you, and I yield back.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Congressman Espaillat.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member.
I know that very often we Members of Congress like to
exempt ourselves of any responsibilities and feel as though we
have not been complicit in any of this, and that the problem in
the Caribbean and Haiti like surfaced from nothing. But the
fact of the matter is that, historically, we supported a
dictatorship of Francois Duvalier. We supported a dictatorship
of Rafael Trujillo Molina. And we have up until now, also,
supported the colonial status of Puerto Rico. So, in fact, the
crisis in the Caribbean is very much deep rooted in what we
have done as a country in that important part of the world,
which is considered our fourth border--our third border.
And so, my question is the following: given that the Miami
Herald said that there are 500,000 illegal firearms circulating
in Haiti, given that, also, the State Department cited that
there are 286,000 children under the age of 15 working in what
is considered domestic servitude, given that we just heard
today that 41 police officers have been killed and 42
protestors have also been killed in the recent protests, Haiti
is at the brink of disaster.
My question to all of you, and I would like to get a yes-
or-no answer from each of the panelists: do you feel that the
return of the Blue Helmets will stabilize or will help to
stabilize the situation while we work on broader reform that
must come before an election is held? The answer from each of
the members, yes or no, do you feel that the Blue Helmets
should come back?
Mr. Esperance, yes or no?
Mr. Esperance. No.
Mr. Espaillat. No? The answer is no? Thank you.
Ms. Douyon.
Ms. Douyon. No. We do not need this. What we need is
systemic reform and Haitians are able to handle----
Mr. Espaillat. Yes or no, Mr. Erikson?
Mr. Erikson. Not at this point.
Mr. Espaillat. Ms. Hermantin?
Ms. Hermantin. No.
Mr. Espaillat. Mr. Garrastazu?
Mr. Garrastazu. No, not at this moment.
Mr. Espaillat. Okay. So, all of you feel that the Blue
Helmets, although they may have contributed to help some level
of stability while they were there, you do not feel they should
come back at this critical time? Okay.
So, who are the members, Mr. Esperance, who are the
individuals leading the armed gangs? Could you name them?
Mr. Esperance. Well, listen, there are so many gangs, armed
gangs in Haiti.
Mr. Espaillat. Yes, but who are the leaders? Could you name
me the top three gang leaders? We should know them by name. We
should be able to identify them.
Mr. Esperance. For instance, Arnel Joseph in the
metropolitan area of Port-au-Prince. He recently was
imprisoned. They are Jimmy Cherizier, ``Barbeque,'' who has
been implicated in the five massacres and----
Mr. Espaillat. And the third one, please? Sorry, I could
not hear you.
Mr. Esperance. He actually works for the government.
Mr. Espaillat. Okay. And the third one?
Mr. Esperance. When we say that this is somebody who works
for the government, it is not that he directly works for the
government.
Mr. Espaillat. Okay. I wanted the names.
Now let me go to Ms. Douyon. You stated in your testimony
that the President will not be able to complete his term in
2022. Why is that? Do you feel that there will be--that is
totally impossible for him to complete his term? And what does
that mean in real terms?
Ms. Douyon. Just that the protests will keep on going
because people are really dissatisfied with his ruling, and the
economic situation has worsened under his term, and he has not
taken any action to improve the situation. He has ruined any
chance he has to have dialog, and the movement now is not a
movement between the opposition and the President. It is about
accountability, and we PetroChallengers, we will not accept
that this President will represent us, because it is a shame;
he is indicted in corruption, and we do not believe he deserves
to stay in power and rule by decree alone without a parliament
and without a government in January.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Sires. Mr. Vargas, do you have a question?
Congressman Levin.
He does not have a question.
Mr. Levin. [Speaks briefly in French.]
Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Yoho, I thank you so much
for holding this hearing and for the bipartisan engagement. It
is really encouraging to me, and I can tell the witnesses and
the audience that it is not going to be another 20 years before
we have another hearing in this subcommittee under the
leadership of Albio Sires. We will pay close attention to this
crisis and do everything we can to change things.
I have really been struck by your testimony today. I think
25 years ago I published a law review article that I think was
read by 12 people, but the thesis of it was that United States
policy has failed in Haiti because we only deal with a tiny
slice of the population who speak French, the economic elite.
In fact, we call them ``civil society,'' and we have failed
over many years to actually work with the broad groups of
Haitian civil society--the neighborhood protection
organizations, literacy organizations, the unions of teachers,
whatever it is--the groups that, when he visited our country in
the 19th century, Monsieur de Tocqueville said, were what set
our country apart, not elections, but this effervescence of
people organizing themselves.
And so, here today, Monsieur Esperance, Madame Douyon,
Madame Hermantin, you basically all said, do not be obsessed
with elections right now; we have had a lot of elections in
Haiti and they failed to change things. Elections are
constitutive of a democracy, and we need them, but, first, we
need to work with the Haitian people in civil society to have
accountability and have the rule of law.
So, let me start by asking Mr. Esperance to expand on--I
was very troubled by your account of the status of the
judiciary in Haiti. How endemic is the undermining of the
independence of the judiciary and what could we do to begin to
change that?
Mr. Esperance. The judicial power is a power, but the
executive branch and, also, the legislative branch consider the
judiciary branch as a poor parent. There is not enough funds.
There is not enough money for the reforms that are needed in
the judicial branch.
The one thing that is important is the Superior Council for
the Judiciary, which is an independent body. It is the judicial
inspection. It does not exist. It does not have the means.
Well, indeed, as one of your colleagues, one of the
Congressmen just mentioned, the United States spent billions of
dollars in Haiti, but the results so far have been zero.
Mr. Levin. For this body?
Mr. Esperance. They spent a lot of money for judicial
reform. The problem is that the USAID and U.S. organizations,
when they try to come up with these programs, they do not work
with the actors on the ground. They do not work with the people
they should work with.
As we are speaking right now, the U.S. Government has a big
program when it comes to judicial reform. Meanwhile, the system
has worsened. What we need is authorities who respect the
judicial branch, so the branch itself can perform as it is
supposed to.
It has been more than 30 years that I have been working on
human rights issues. We have never gone through that situation
that we are going through now for the past few years.
Mr. Levin. It has never been this past in the last 30? All
right.
My time has expired. Mr. Chairman, I am going to hang out,
in the hopes that I might get to ask some more questions when
everyone else is tired. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Congressman Buck.
Mr. Buck. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
First, I would be glad to yield to my friend for a couple
of minutes, if you would like to ask more questions right now.
Mr. Levin. I will wait.
Mr. Buck. Okay. Then, I will yield to Mr. Yoho from
Florida.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Ms. Douyon, you were getting ready to say something when we
were talking about it before. We know how much money we have
put in there. For Haiti to have less than 20 percent of the
population have running water in the 21st century in the
Western Hemisphere, I cannot comprehend that. And so, I want
you to go ahead and answer what you were going to answer
before. And then, let's talk about how do we fix this and make
a significant impact, so we do not have this hearing next year
and say, ``USAID dropped some more food here, and thank you.''
Ms. Douyon. Thank you.
I wanted to add something about the judiciary system. The
judiciary system is crippled by corruption like all the other
institutions and it is not working for the people. On a recent
trip in Paris, the President said that he had to hire 50
corrupted judges in the judiciary system. This is an example of
how severe the situation is when a President confessed to
hiring corrupt judges. So, no one can trust the judiciary
system to serve the people. We only believe the judiciary
system will protect the interests of those in power.
About the fact that most people do not have potable water
in Haiti, this is a serious problem and it is another example
of how people go to election just to have State resources, to
live a lavish lifestyle, to share privilege with their friends,
with their entourage, and not for the people.
Mr. Yoho. Okay. Let me interrupt you there. How do we
change that? How do we get rule of law and respect for rule of
law?
Ms. Douyon. The way to do that is to actually foster
systemic reforms, so that competent and honest people can go to
election and run the country.
Mr. Yoho. All right. So how do you get rid of the
corruption that prevents that?
Ms. Douyon. One of the ways to get rid of it is to show
that--like, for example, we are asking for a PetroCaribe trial.
In the past, no one has faced charges for corruption, and the
accountability movement, we want----
Mr. Yoho. Is there a political will in the people that are
in government to carry that out? Are they willing to do that or
are they afraid and intimidated?
Ms. Douyon. They do not want to do that because so many
high-level officials are indicted in corruption. Then, in the
reports they want to protect themselves. So, they do not want
this to happen.
Mr. Yoho. So, if they do not want to, how can you change
that?
Ms. Douyon. This is why we want the President to resign,
because himself, he has indicted in corruption and we want to
have a transitional government which will handle the
PetroCaribe trial.
Mr. Yoho. In your opinion, if you have a transitional
government, if he steps down, what guarantees or what certainty
do you have that you are going to have somebody that is going
to really put the people of Haiti first?
Ms. Douyon. We have this guarantee because of the
accountability movement. Years ago, people like me, we were not
on the street protesting for corruption. We are tired. We have
had enough.
Mr. Yoho. I would think so.
I see my three colleagues in the back, they are smiling.
So, they must be happy with what I am asking or they do not
think it is going to happen.
Ms. Douyon. It will happen because I do not think Haitians
are ready to support any corrupt officials anymore. We have had
enough. We have seen that it does not work, and that is why we
are asking for----
Mr. Yoho. But when you have people in control that are
corrupt, they are going to suppress you, right?
Ms. Douyon. They are trying to suppress the movement.
Mr. Yoho. I think they have been doing it since I was a
little kid, and that was a long time ago.
Ms. Douyon. Yes.
Mr. Yoho. Because we have seen what has happened since the
sixties.
The people of Haiti deserve to have the freedom and
liberties that we have, that we believe in. We are all born
with that innate quality. And if we do not change--and I want
to talk to you, Mr. Erikson. You brought up the U.N. The U.N.
was there for what, 12 years? Now they are small. How effective
were they and what results do we--can we say, all right, the
U.N. was here; they did this and look at the great results?
Obviously, it is not water and sewer.
Mr. Erikson. Yes, you are absolutely right, Congressman.
So, the U.N. was present in Haiti beginning in 2004 in the
middle of another crisis, when President Aristide was ousted,
and then, remained through the period of the earthquake, and
really drew back the peacekeeping mission substantially in 2017
and transitioned to a political office in 2019.
The legacy of the U.N. in Haiti is very mixed. Clearly,
there was success in maintaining the peace during that time,
because Haiti did not have this widespread social civic
breakdown that has taken place in the last couple of years. And
there is a Haitian National Police, which Mr. Esperance
referred to, which has become a more positive force, more
accountable. It is bigger. There was about 5,000----
Mr. Yoho. I am going to run out of time here in 3 seconds.
Mr. Erikson. All right. There was 5,000 police in Haiti in
2010. Today, there is 15,000.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Congressman Castro.
Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairman.
Dr. Garrastazu, you mentioned in your remarks that you
believe that Haiti is a national security concern for the
United States. How do you mean that?
Mr. Garrastazu. Thank you, Mr. Castro.
Well, its proximity to the U.S., being so close to my home
State of Florida. Its geopolitical implications that I had
mentioned; the fact that they maintain a partnership with
Taiwan is something to really consider because it is forcing
China to keep away from our borders, which is very important
right now. The Dominican Republic is working closely with
China. El Salvador is just now working closely with China.
Panama is working closely with China. And China is really all
over Haiti, trying to dabble and trying to get them toward
their sphere. That is something very important to consider.
And also, multilaterally, it is very important that Haiti
for the past several years has always sided with CARICOM, with
the regional block, and it is now taking a stance against
Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela, so something to consider. And they
have also taken a stronger stance against the authoritarian
government of Ortega in Nicaragua.
Mr. Castro. Sure. So, I guess your comment was geopolitical
in nature?
Mr. Garrastazu. It is geopolitically and strategically
correct.
Mr. Castro. Sure. No, and I understand. I just think that
in the past we have seen migration from Haiti, folks seeking
refuge and asylum in the United States. And oftentimes, when we
receive people from nations like Haiti or Mexico or Central
America, there is a language that develops around those people
that can be harmful to the way Americans think about who these
people are. We see it with Central American migrants now where
there is an effort--and I am not including you in that--I am
just saying there is an effort to try to make these people out
to be dangerous or people that we should fear. And again, I am
not saying that is your intention.
But Haiti has confronted, has dealt in the past with what I
would consider bad U.S. foreign policy posture; also leaders
who did not serve the people of Haiti, but served themselves,
and also natural disasters, the most recent of which, the 2010
earthquake, the country, they lost somewhere between 100,000,
maybe 250,000, people that they are still trying to rebuild
from. And so, I ask that and I certainly respect your answer on
the geopolitics and the significance, and the challenge that
China poses in the Caribbean and Latin America. But I also want
us to be mindful that when people, whether in the past or in
the future, seek asylum here, that most of all they are coming
in desperation, oftentimes oppression, and are not dangerous
people in and of themselves.
Mr. Garrastazu. Oh, yes, sir. And coming from the State of
Florida, I think I have a unique perspective on that. My family
is Cuban-American.
Mr. Castro. Sure.
Mr. Garrastazu. So, they have been here since 1960 and
really have contributed to what south Florida is today. Growing
up with Haitians, with Venezuelans, with Mexicans, I know the
positive impact that they can have on the community. And I
think I am also one of those prospects. My family came, worked
really hard, and I am sitting before Congress today, which is
very cool.
But understand there needs to be a change of narrative as
well as the positive aspects of what they are doing. For
example, what is going on in Venezuela and Colombia with the
migration crisis, Venezuelans are really putting forth a lot in
that community. So, we need to really speak about that positive
aspect as well--it is not just negative--and the contributions
they can make to society.
Mr. Castro. Yes. Thank you.
I yield back, Chairman.
Mr. Sires. Congressman Smith.
Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, and thank you, Mr. Chairman
and Mr. Yoho, for calling this very important hearing.
Thank you for your testimoneys.
Let me just focus for a moment on the issue of anti-human
trafficking, both labor and sex trafficking. More than a decade
ago, I met with a woman named Nancy Rivard, an airline flight
attendant with American Airlines. And she and others
recognized, coming out of Haiti, that there were a number of
children who were basically unaccompanied except by some guy
that just did not look like there was a relationship
whatsoever, and contacted law enforcement.
And, lo and behold, they found out there was a trafficking
ring, a pedophile ring, of huge proportions. Over 60 children
had been trafficked. When they got law enforcement involved,
they were able to stop it, make arrests. But the 60-plus kids
that had been so horribly mistreated were still lost into a
terrible system.
I actually wrote a law, the Frederick Douglass Act that was
signed into law earlier this year, on anti-human trafficking. I
also wrote the original Trafficking Victims Protection Act. But
the Douglass Act has specific language in it, and it was born
out of what we learned from Nancy Rivard and others, that gives
prioritization to U.S. use of airlines for Federal employees,
if they have a protocol in place to spot trafficking, to be
situationally aware.
So, I would like to ask you, if you could, where are we in
terms of the Haitian government and its record? The TIP Report
this year upgraded Haiti to Tier 2. It had been much worse off
for years. They do have a new national plan, as you know, that
is in effect. Although the recommendations from our Trafficking
in Persons Office is that they prioritize that national plan,
they underscore the fact that there needs to be the training of
police, prosecutors, judges; that there is a great deal of non-
information/misinformation about the nature of trafficking. So,
it is not prioritized by law enforcement. Even training of
labor investigators, so that they can look for labor
trafficking, both in Haiti and those that are sent elsewhere.
If you could speak to the issue of trafficking, whoever
might want to take it, or several of you? Is Haiti moving in
the right direction? The TIP Report suggests, yes, but they are
nowhere near where they ought to be to protect the children of
Haiti as well as women and others who are exploited.
Ms. Douyon. I know that efforts have been made to tackle
this issue, but I will say that this is all part of a bigger
problem, which is impunity, weakness of law enforcement, and
worsening economic conditions. And to solve this problem, we
need to get to the root cause and prevent officials from
diverting money that is meant to fight poverty and allow
parents to have the resources to raise their kids so they will
not be that exposed to human trafficking.
Thank you.
Mr. Smith. Yes?
Ms. Hermantin. From the perspective of the Haitian-American
community in Miami, for example, we know, neighborhood-based
organizations such as the one I work with, that there are a lot
of young people who are living in deplorable conditions within
households in the Haitian community. These are the children who
migrated, who are sent by parents. Again, because of the
economic situation, they were sent for themselves and to take
care of their families back home.
But these young people are in a semi-state of servitude.
Thank God they go to school, but they live in really horrible
conditions at home, and social service agencies try their best
to attend to their needs because this is sort of the route to
gang activity in urban centers in Miami. So, we do notice that
there are such situations, it is clearly documented, but we
have no power over what happens in Haiti.
Mr. Smith. Yes?
Mr. Esperance. All this issue of human trafficking, it
occurs with the absence of the rule of law. Today in Haiti,
human life does not have any importance or the authorities.
What we need is a strong State where all the institutions are
working and they are doing exactly what they are supposed to
do, like a well-healed machine. There is no real effort on the
side of the authorities to address these issues and to resolve
them.
Even if the current President you have now had the
opportunity to finish his term in 2022, there is no opportunity
to really have elections with him that can be credible. In
other words, Haiti will have to go through a transition, no
matter what. And so, during that transition we will be able to
address all those issues, impunity, the question of the rule of
law, and so forth.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Esperance, thank you very much. Thank you
all.
I think my time is up.
Mr. Sires. Congressman Phillips.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. Yoho, for
calling this hearing.
And welcome to our witnesses. Bonjour et bienvenue.
The failures of the Haitian political system have been well
documented, not just for generations, but literally over two
centuries, I think it is fair to say. And we have a tendency to
try to treat symptoms and not address underlying disease. I
think that underlying disease is surely corruption, as we have
spoken about briefly today. So, I would like to start with
that.
Ms. Douyon, you spoke briefly about it, but I would like
some specifics about how the United States of America can use
its resources, both financial and human, to start taking steps
to improve governance, restore the faith and trust in
government, and address the underlying disease.
Ms. Douyon. Thank you.
If the U.S. wants to support a sustainable way forward,
like I said, it may take its lead from the Haitians of its
society. You mentioned it. We are treating the symptom. We are
going to the root to do a cause of the problem. And now, the
problem is that we want to fight corruption and get rid of
corrupt officials.
And the steps are: get this government to resign. Have the
PetroCaribe trial. Make reforms.
Mr. Phillips. So, step one is getting the government to
resign?
Ms. Douyon. Yes, because there is no way a corrupt
President can do any good for this country, except protecting
himself.
Mr. Phillips. So, working with Moise and his government is
a non-start?
Ms. Douyon. It is impossible. It is morally impossible as
well.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. No. 2?
Ms. Douyon. And we need to get a trial, and we need to get
constitutional reform, change in the electoral system, so we
can have fair and open elections.
Mr. Phillips. Let's stop there for a moment.
Ms. Douyon. Yes.
Mr. Phillips. How do we begin that initiative?
Ms. Douyon. With a transitional government with a clear
mandate. There are actually civil society organizations who are
working on a roadmap for the transitional government.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Ms. Douyon. And there is a general consensus on what this
transitional government should do. And the priorities are the
trial and elections, fair, open election with a new electoral
system, a new electoral council, because the one we have now
cannot organize an election. It does not respect the legal rule
and I think its term is over as well. Therefore, we need those
basic changes, so we can have honest people, competent people
to run for office and enter a new system. We need systemic
reforms and we definitely need it now.
Mr. Phillips. Is anything that the United States is doing
right now affecting any of those three initiatives?
Ms. Douyon. Stop supporting the Moise government because
the way it is, the U.S. Government is encouraging dialog and it
does not work. There is no way we can have dialog with a
corrupt President who has ruined any chances he had to have
dialog. Even when it was not about his resignation, he ruined
it.
The United States is pushing to the formation of a new
government. It will not work. We cannot ask people to enter a
government with a corrupt President and direct it in
corruption. There is no way we can ask people to do that.
And he had a chance with a Prime Minister from the
opposition, Mr. Ceant, and he would not. So, he has had two
governments and it did not work. He had the majority in the
parliament. Yet, he could not form a government. There is no
way we can trust him to handle anything.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. I appreciate it.
Mr. Erikson, I would like to talk about our diplomacy in
Haiti. Are staff drawdowns affecting--as I presume the answer
is yes--our ability to affect diplomacy and do our business, if
you will, in Haiti?
Mr. Erikson. The U.S. Embassy in Haiti is functioning in an
extremely challenging environment in terms of security. In
terms of the staff footprint, I do not know if there have been
many changes, but there have been periods where people, for
example, have not been able to have their family members there
with them.
And then, I would just say, in general, there has been
fewer visitors. There have been a few high-level visitors
recently, but you are not seeing perhaps the level of
diplomatic attention from Washington, either.
Mr. Phillips. And what would that level of diplomatic
attention look like in a perfect world?
Mr. Erikson. Sure. Well, one of the proposals that I made
in my testimony is to have the Secretary of State convene in
the first quarter of next year all of the key international
actors engaged with Haiti, which is known as the Haiti Core
Group, which includes countries from Europe, Latin America,
Canada, and international institutions, to try to lay out what
a framework would be for the international community to help
assist with a political solution and, also, address the
humanitarian needs.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I yield the balance of my time.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Congressman Vargas.
Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
And I thank the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Yoho. In fact,
Mr. Yoho said that we have to respect the rule of law; we have
to have the rule of law, and are we willing to carry it out?
So, this Saturday my oldest daughter and I, we drove to
Tijuana to the area called El Chaparral, where people present
themselves for asylum. Now the law is such that a person
fleeing from persecution should be able to go up to the
American side of the border, present themselves, and then,
ultimately, have their case adjudicated to see if they have
legitimate fear to be able to, then, gain asylum and stay in
the United States.
Now there are a number of people that were there, and there
is this queuing system that prevents people from actually doing
that. So, you physically literally cannot get to the American
side of the border and ask for that because you are prevented
from doing that by this fence that has been put up by the
Mexican government, in conjunction with the American
government.
The American government, we only allow a few people. In
fact, there is this book that they have and they only call a
few people from it. And there was this beautiful couple that
turned out to be from Haiti. It was a husband, a wife, and a
little girl. And I could not help but think at this time of the
year of another family 2,000 years ago that was looking for
refuge that I think had a great case, and I think here also.
But they never even had the opportunity.
In fact, there was someone there, thankfully, who was able
to explain to them you have to put your name on this list, and
maybe 6 months down the line, or 4 months down the line, your
name will be called. You have to come here to hear your name.
Then, you can apply for asylum.
Well, we should follow our own law. We should be willing to
respect the rule of law. That family should have had the
opportunity to present themselves and make their case for
asylum. Under the conditions that you are talking about today,
I think that family would have made a great case to say, ``We
fear for our lives. We fear for our livelihood. We fear for the
child that we have with us here,'' and be able to stay in the
United States under our law. But we are not willing to do that.
So, when we hear about this notion that people should be
able to follow the rule of law and we should respect the rule
of law, we should begin by respecting our own rules, our own
laws, and allowing that little family to be able to present
themselves appropriately, as they wanted to. They did not even
know it--now, again, it gets more complicated because they did
not speak Spanish and they did not speak English--so, they did
not even know how to do this when they showed up. Again, I
think we should respect the rule of law.
That being said, I mean, I am very much in favor, of
course, of us providing greater assistance to Haiti. We have to
do that. I am in favor of that. I know there is corruption and
there is a lot of other things. There always is in the world.
But, at the same time, we should respect our own laws, our own
rules, because we know that this is going to happen around the
world. That is why we have always been a refuge for people
seeking this type of help, this type of asylum. That is how
most of the people probably in this room got here.
And so, again, we should respect our own rule of law. We
should respect our own rules and give an opportunity. We should
look at that, Mr. Chairman. There is a grave injustice
happening along the border, especially for people that do not
speak Spanish or English.
And I have to say, too, my daughter, the reason she was
with me, she works at Casa Cornelia, which attempts to get
asylum for people that arrive in--it began with girls and
women, and now families, that have been trafficked. And how,
they are seeking asylum.
In particular, I think people of African descent get
discriminated against. They are coming through a nation that is
Mexican, obviously, that speaks Spanish. And oftentimes, they
do not know the language, Cameroonians especially, in
particular. But we should respect our own rule of law.
So, again, I am very much in favor of us helping Haiti, and
I am here to listen. But, at the same time, I am also here to
say we are not doing it. We are very good to cast aspersions on
other countries; they should follow the rule of law. We do not
do it. We do not follow the international law. We do not follow
our own rules.
Mr. Erikson, what do you think about it? I mean, do not you
think the conditions exist there to be able to apply for asylum
here for some people with a legitimate reason?
Mr. Erikson. Yes, I do. And I really appreciate your
commentary and observations.
One of the recommendations that I made in my testimony was
the extension of Temporary Protected Status for Haitians in the
United States past the current 2021 expiration date and the
examination of possibilities for humanitarian parole for maybe
Haitians or political asylum for those whose lives are at
serious risk.
Mr. Vargas. And I hope we do it.
My time has expired here. But, again, I thank you very
much, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity.
Mr. Sires. Congressman Meeks.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
holding this very important hearing today.
And I thank all the panel members who are sitting there and
my colleagues.
As you may know, yesterday myself and eight other Members
of Congress, many of whom are sitting on the dais today, wrote
to Secretary Pompeo and Administrator Green to express our deep
concern regarding the prolonged political and humanitarian
crisis in Haiti. We know that people are dying on a daily
basis, some because of no food, others because of the violence
that has taken place.
And what I am trying to find out, and according to the
State Department, U.S. policy toward Port-au-Prince focuses,
they tell me, on strengthening institutions and infrastructure
for sustainable development and democratic foundations and
poverty alleviation. So, that is what we were told by the State
Department.
So, my question would be, then, to you initially, since
most of you or all of you have been on the ground and looking,
just to ask you, what is the perception among Haitians of the
U.S. Embassy and the U.S. assistance to Haiti?
Yes?
Ms. Douyon. The perception is that the U.S. Embassy is
supporting the President, and the President does everything he
can to show that he has the strong support of the U.S. Embassy
and the U.S. Government. And we believe that the answer from
the embassy to the PetroCaribe movement, for example, isn't as
strong as it should be. It is the very first time that there is
a strong accountability movement in the country, and it does
not receive the recognition it should.
The response is better on the human rights side because
they condemned the last massacre and all, but they have been
mainly calling for dialog, which I mentioned before is not
possible. They have been calling for the formation of a new
government, which people do not believe is the solution because
the government, the President is corrupt and other people he
appointed before have like corruption suspicion upon them. And
they have been calling for election, but I think my colleague
mentioned it before, we have the Dermalog scandal related to
the identification called the voter cards. It did not respect
the rule. It did not have the validation from the Court of
Auditors, and it does not help to promote elections with a
government that is using an illegal card, basically, to have
this election.
And it seems like they are pushing for election either way,
whether it is a fair election or not. It is like we are
promoting, the U.S. is supporting democracy, but not democracy
itself, but sign of democracy, as long as we have a government,
no matter the way it was formed. No matter the type of people
in this government, it is democracy. No matter the kind of
election we have, as long as we have an election to prove that
we are respecting democracy, it is Okay. But we are tired of
this and we believe we should not keep going this way because
it isn't better.
Mr. Meeks. It is your feeling that there should not be any
cooperation with the Moise government because they could not
have a fair and democratic election. And I just want to check
to make sure that everybody on the panel feels the same way. Do
they think that is accurate? Or is there any way to engage, but
make sure that we do have a fair and impartial election?
Ms. Hermantin. Thank you.
The idea of fair and democratic elections, also a construct
that is not necessarily well implemented in Haiti. Let's look
at how these elections are funded. How are individuals
incentivized to run for office, to create parties? Before
elections, you have parties just pop up out of nowhere because
people know that elections will come with funding. Each party--
if I am wrong, please let me know--each person or each party
that presents candidates will receive some funding from the
international community. So, this obsession with the electoral
process, one-man/one-vote elections, has created a cottage
industry of bogus parties that come up and that attract not the
most civic-minded people to come and run.
So, when we have elections where we have 75 individuals
representing 75 parties running for office, someone should say,
what is wrong with this picture? What monster have we created,
all in the name of, quote/unquote, ``democracy''?
And so, the incentivization of politics or elections has
sort of created this monster that attracts sometimes the worse
elements that we have to offer. So, the idea that you have
elections and that is proof that democracy is healthy in Haiti
is not really accurate. You cannot say that, well, we have
elections, so everything should be Okay. Why cannot you attract
the right people? The process itself attracts the wrong people.
Ms. Douyon. And if I may add something?
Mr. Sires. Thank you. We have four other guests.
Congresswoman Frederica Wilson from Florida?
Ms. Wilson. Thank you, Chairman Sires, and thank you for
holding this hearing. This is long overdue.
And I am pleased to have my constituent and Haitian
community leader, Leonie Hermantin, testify today. And I asked
you to invite her to testify at this hearing because my
district is home to one of the Nation's largest Haitian
communities, which I have had the privilege of representing in
Congress and in the Florida legislature.
In October, Leonie and other Haitian community leaders
joined Speaker Pelosi and me for a roundtable on Haiti. And one
of those panelists, Attorney Karen Andre, who worked in the
Obama Administration, is in the audience. Raise your hand,
Karen.
Generations of Haitians passionately expressed their
heartfelt concerns about the ongoing crisis. They were livid.
They made it abundantly clear that Haiti's sovereignty and
right to self-determination must not be undermined. They also
shared concerns about the Trump Administration's continued
support for President Moise and inadequate calls for
accountability for the myriad of grievances that have compelled
Haitians to take to the streets and march and protest.
We cannot remain silent when there are credible allegations
of corruption, human rights abuses, and other atrocities. We
cannot remain silent when thousands of ambitious Haitian
children, especially young girls, are unable to access an
education, which is their only ladder of opportunity. And we
cannot remain silent when more than 3 million Haitians are
facing a hunger crisis. We must speak up and we must listen.
That is why today's hearing is so important and so timely.
We have had the opportunity to hear directly from Haitians who
are living in Haiti and in the diaspora, and united in fighting
for a stronger, more prosperous Haiti. Their testimoneys have
given us valuable insight about the impact of U.S. policies on
Haiti.
And the Miami Herald editorial board said that we must
invest in Haiti. The international community must invest in
Haiti. We have to do something and not just listen. I heard Mr.
Erikson, and we need to listen, direct, and we need to act.
I hope this is just the first of many congressional
hearings on Haiti. For too long, there have been no hearings on
Haiti.
Thank you, Chairman Sires, for listening to us and
engaging.
Ms. Hermantin, thank you for traveling from Miami and for
your continued leadership in the Haitian community.
You portrayed the Haitian diaspora as an underutilized
asset and recommended that the U.S. work in partnership with
the Haitians locally and diaspora experts, as opposed to the
big international development organizations. How should USAID
and other U.S. agencies demonstrably leverage the expertise of
the Haitian diaspora to maximize the effectiveness of U.S.
investments in Haiti? And what do you consider as a suitable
mechanism to facilitate this kind of partnership that you
envision?
Ms. Hermantin. Thank you for the question. I often dread
talking about USAID from the diaspora's perspective because we
have seldomly seen a willingness to fully engage the Haitian
diaspora. We, as I said, invest $3.1 billion in Haiti, and yet,
we are never invited as partners, as investors around the table
when it comes to creating programs that target us.
There was a program right after the earthquake called the
Haitian Diaspora Marketplace. It was a 2-year program and its
goal was to provide financial and technical assistance to
members of the Haitian diaspora, but it was led from a bank in
Haiti and it was supposed to give technical assistance to
people who live in the United States. So, it really did not
make too much sense and it really did not work very well. It
was not very successful.
There was another effort called LEAD. Again, its goal was
to attract investment in small and medium-sized enterprises
based in Haiti, but it was implemented by one of these large
organizations. Again, that did not successfully engage us.
The idea is you put in lots of lip service to programs
engaging the diaspora, but if you do not engage us, if you do
not come to us, come to find us and talk to us, it is not going
to work.
Mr. Sires. Thank you. Thank you. Can I just get to the
other member?
Ms. Hermantin. Oh, sorry.
Mr. Sires. They were waiting long.
Congresswoman Lee.
Ms. Lee. First, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this hearing.
I am formally a member for many years of this committee, the
full committee and subcommittee. So, thank you so much for
inviting us back to be here with you.
Once again, I just have to say my heart continues to ache
for the people of Haiti. And I want to associate myself with
many of the remarks that have been made today.
Now, for many years, myself personally, since the
seventies, I have worked in a variety of ways to support the
Haitian people and have, of course, visited Haiti many times
prior to my being a Member of Congress and now serving as a
Member of Congress.
Let me just frame this within a couple of perspectives. I
am vice chair of the subcommittee that funds all of our foreign
aid, USAID. So, thank you for your response on the question
from Congresswoman Wilson.
But we have helped spearhead and guide the humanitarian
U.S. assistance efforts after the deadly earthquake. We have
worked to improve and strengthen health care. We supported
efforts to strengthen governance, and we have always stood to
protect the human rights of the Haitian people. We have ensured
funding for emergency assistance through USAID, ensuring that
that is available, and we included important language in the
appropriations bill requiring a report on the La Saline
massacre, including the human rights abuses. We have also
required our government to condition funding for the central
government of Haiti on human rights abuses and governance
issues.
The ongoing political and economic crisis in Haiti has led
to, we all know, as you have said, a food crisis. Schools and
businesses are being shut down for weeks, vital resources
becoming scarce.
I share that because there are many, many efforts that all
of us have mounted, and then, still, we see what has taken
place in Haiti. In many ways, it appears to be a failed state.
Now I am one to believe that the U.S.'s role has not been a
very positive role, laying out everything I just laid out and
more, because of the structural issues and because of our
history of undermining in many respects the Haitian people in
terms of their freedom, their liberation, and the empowerment
of the Haitian people.
I know for a fact that a lot of the USAID money has gone to
NGO's that are not Haitian NGO's. None of the Haitian
businesses in the diaspora, as you said, have been brought to
the table.
And so, I am wondering, first of all, what do you think we
can do here as Members of Congress, in addition to what we have
done, to address the structural issues and to make sure that
the United States becomes a positive actor in this? And then,
second, as it relates to the incidences, the massacre really in
La Saline, what is the status of that? Has anyone been brought
to justice? Has anyone been prosecuted in that massacre?
Mr. Esperance. Like I mentioned earlier, all financial
crimes or other kinds of crimes that have been committed, the
Haitian government has blocked the kinds of investigation at
the judicial level. In other words, if you consider the foul on
the La Saline massacre, there has not been any indictment that
has been issued and the criminals are going about their
business without any problem. One of the gangs with Jimmy
Cherizier that was involved in that massacre is continuing to
act the same way in other massacres.
Earlier, the question was asked about the Haitian
perception of the U.S. Embassy in Haiti. We can see from 2017
up until March 2019 U.S. authorities have given unquestionable
support to the Haitian authorities. With the letter signed by
104 Congressman that was delivered in March of this year to the
embassy, the embassy has begun to shift, to modify in some of
these fouls; for instance, La Saline.
U.S. authorities are putting a lot of pressure against a
lot of people who are demonstrating against the government in
power. They cancel a lot of the visas of many of them and they
also apply a lot of pressure on them.
In the meantime, Haitian authorities who are involved in
money laundering, they are being protected. They never do
anything against them. There is no sanction against them.
Recently, the OAS and the government have come up with a
program to try and cleanup corruption within the government.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Congresswoman Pressley.
Mr. Esperance. Thirty seconds, 30 seconds?
Mr. Sires. All right, go ahead. Finish up.
Mr. Esperance. If the U.S. Government puts its money in
that program, it is going to be a waste. It is going to be
wasting money. It is true that they want to reinforce the
institutions that are fighting against corruption, but you have
to do it with authorities, with people who are not corrupt,
with authorities that are destroying these institutions like
your current authorities are doing right now.
Mr. Sires. Thank you. I do not mean to cut you off, but we
have other members that have been waiting for a long time.
Congresswoman Pressley.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for waving me onto
the committee for this critically important conversation today.
I am here for two reasons, one in my official capacity as
the Congresswoman representing the Massachusetts 7th
congressional District, which boasts the third-largest
population of the Haitian diaspora in the country. But I am
also here, if I am being fully authentic, as a black woman in
gratitude. A parent is a child's first teacher. My mother did
not read me nursery rhymes, but she made sure early on that I
knew the words of Toussaint Louverture, ``I was born a slave,
but Nature gave me the soul of a free man.''
The people of Haiti inspired me in my lifetime of work to
fight against the colonialism and for the liberation and
freedom of black people and all people around the globe. And I
thank you for that role.
I also proudly boast the only pre-K, dual-language program
in the country in the Toussaint L'Ouverture Academy; and
finally, trail-blazing, historic Haitian-American leaders like
Marie St. Fleur, Linda Dorcena Forry, Jean Bradley
Derenoncourt, and Gerly Adrien, elected more recently.
So, what is happening in Haiti is of specific and urgent
import to the people that I represent, dealing with the fact
that they cannot travel back to the funerals of their loved
ones due to the violence; the fact that students cannot go to
school; that hospitals do not have enough oxygen for critically
ill patients seeking care.
Just last month, I held a roundtable with Haitian
stakeholders in my district to hear directly from them about
how the violence has impacted their families and how the U.S.
can play a role in helping to forge a path for long-term peace
and stability for the people of Haiti. They stressed the need
for security measures to keep their loved ones in Haiti safe
and strong accountability measures to prevent fraud and to hold
bad actors to account.
Some of my line of questioning has already been asked. So,
I just have a couple of things with the time that I have
remaining. The first is, can you speak to how has the closing
of the USCIS field office in Port-au-Prince affected the
situation in Haiti? Anyone who would like to comment on that?
Mr. Esperance. I am not sure this program really helped a
lot of Haitians. It was a program that was established to help
people who were applying for political asylum and, also, to
bring family members.
Ms. Pressley. Okay.
Mr. Esperance. There is not a lot of people who are
applying nowadays for political asylum because what the U.S.
Government has done is make it so that it takes much longer,
like 3 years-four years before you actually get even an
interview.
Ms. Pressley. Okay. All right. Thank you.
And then, did you want to elaborate?
Ms. Douyon. I want to add something, but not exactly
related to your question, but related to the introduction you
made. My friends, my colleagues in the PetroChallenge movement,
the movement for accountability, we follow you closely in Haiti
and we are inspired by those women in Congress here in the
United States. And one of our concerns is that in Haiti we
cannot do the same and women cannot run for office as easily as
it is done elsewhere because, to win an election in Haiti, you
need support from a gang and you need dirty money.
And here, I will take the opportunity to say this is also
one of the reasons we are having this movement, because in the
future we would like to see people like you playing this role,
taking a role in parliament and help the country, just like you
are doing here.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
To that point, are there any leaders of the opposition that
you could name? And could you speak to how a transitional
government could actually--how do we ensure that that does not
contribute to the chaos and actually does get Haiti on a
pathway to peace?
Ms. Douyon. I think the first way will be to ensure that
civil society plays a really strong role instead of dealing
with the crisis as a crisis between the President and the
opposition. Because the youth, the people from the
accountability movement, we do not believe that all those
politicians who will want to present to resign are actually fit
to replace him or to be in charge of the country.
We want to take the process really seriously and have a
vetting. We do not want any corrupt officials, whether it is
from the opposition or from the government party, to be in
place. And we think that society, the youth, the
PetroChallengers have to play a key role if we want to move
forward and avoid chaos.
We do not want chaos. We do not want an opponent to just
replace the President. It is not about taking power and just
keep mining their own business. It is about changing our
country. It is about doing something new. It is about finally
taking Haiti away from this mess, if I can say it this way.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Talking about strong women, Congresswoman Waters.
Ms. Waters. Thank you very much.
First, allow me to thank my colleague, Chairman Albio
Sires, for organizing this hearing entitled, ``Haiti on the
Brink: Assessing U.S. Policy Toward a Country in Crisis,'' and
for inviting me to participate. Haiti is, indeed, a country in
crisis and we are long overdue for an honest assessment of the
policies of the United States toward Haiti as this crisis has
developed.
In April of this year, I led a delegation to Haiti which
met with residents of the La Saline neighborhood of Haiti's
capital and surrounding areas who described acts of
unconscionable violence that occurred in November 2018. The La
Saline massacre resulted in the deaths of at least 71
civilians, in addition to the rape of at least 11 women and the
looting of more than 150 homes. Survivors expressed concern
that government-connected gangs, working with police officers,
carried out the attacks to punish La Saline for participation
in anti-government protests.
Now what are these protests all about? We cannot escape
dealing with the reality of why people are in the streets. And
I have to disclose that I have supported Haiti in so many ways
for so many years, and I am a big supporter still of Lavalas.
President Aristide is not involved in this. He has a university
that is doing fine. But these massive demonstrations must be
talked about in realistic ways.
These protests were sparked by the disappearance of
millions of dollars of assistance provided to Haiti by
Venezuela under the PetroCaribe program. Through PetroCaribe,
Venezuela sold oil to Haiti and allowed them to defer the
payments for up to 25 years and pay a low rate of interest on
the debt. Haiti was supposed to sell the oil and use the money
to pay for social programs.
Instead, at least $2 billion went missing. That is almost a
quarter of Haiti's total economy for 2017. A government report
delivered to the Haitian Senate by official auditors on May
31st highlighted the corruption. Haitians began demonstrating
against the government because they knew they never saw the
benefits of the PetroCaribe program.
Now, having said that, our government tends to support
whomever is the President, whoever is the leader of Haiti, no
matter what. I have been through this through so many
Presidents starting with Papa Doc and Baby Doc, Preval,
Martelly, Latortue, and now, Moise.
I do not know why this President cannot be responsible,
along with Martelly, for the accountability of the PetroCaribe
money. The demonstrations are not going to stop. And for those
who go down there and who send messages, ``Everybody ought to
get together and they need to come together and they need to
talk about this,'' there is not going to be any talk. The
demonstrations are going to go on until this President either
comes forward and gives some accountability for what has
happened to this money, and he can bring Martelly along with
him. Because you all sitting there know what is going on.
In addition to that, if he cannot do that, they are going
to demand that he steps down. Now we understand Haiti is a
sovereign nation. We cannot tell it what to do, but the United
States and USAID, and everybody that is holding up Moise and
Martelly and others who are responsible for this money, need to
come out and talk about this issue.
Ladies and gentleman, the problem is governance. People
like to take food and they like to take clothing, and they like
to support these non-government agencies, but that is not what
we ought to be doing. We ought to be doing everything that we
can to call for accountability.
I want to tell you again, I have been through all of this.
I love Haiti. I support it. I know that governance is needed.
And do not forget, I have been through when President Aristide
was exiled twice, and Clinton got him back once. And then, the
last time he came back, I went and got him in the Central
African Republic. We rented a plane and went up and brought him
back. And he stayed in Africa until he came back. When Baby Doc
came back, he came back. So, we know this history and we know
the history of everybody taking advantage of Haiti whenever
they have the opportunity.
So, what we need to do is put pressure on the President.
The President has not came out. He has not talked about what is
going on. He has not tried to answer anybody. All that he has
done, in my estimation, is been responsible for some of the
violence as he tried to quiet the people of La Saline. And many
of them are Lavalas, not all of them, but many of them are. And
I support the idea that they can demand from this President and
this government accountability.
So, having said all of that, we should stand ready to
support whatever needs to be done for a transitional
government, whatever needs to be done for elections. There is
no judiciary in Haiti at this point. We need to help get
governance in order in every way that we possibly can.
But, for those of you here today, this issue really cannot
be resolved until the President takes responsibility. And our
position in supporting this President is a failed position. It
is not a good position.
With that, I think I have taken up all of my time. But who
on this panel agrees that there needs to be accountability from
the President of Haiti?
[Applause.]
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congresswoman.
Ms. Waters. Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. Sires. We are going to go a second round. There are a
couple of members who have a couple of questions.
Congressman Levin.
Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
I just want to take a few minutes in closing to, first of
all, recognize the leadership of some of my sisters who
appeared before us here, and to note that it is not altogether
common for multiple Members of Congress who have simultaneous
hearings going on to come and wave onto a subcommittee,
Chairman Sires, to speak about this. So, I want you to
understand how much we care about Haiti and how intent we are
for our country at long last to take a more responsible and
constructive position. Congresswoman Waters, Congresswoman Lee,
Congresswoman Pressley, Congresswoman Wilson all came here. So,
I want to note that.
Now, Ms. Douyon, let me just pick up something that you
emphasized in your testimony. I am very concerned that there is
a notion afoot, and has been for a long time, that Haiti is
sort of a hopelessly failed state and that it is impossible for
Haiti to stand up a government based on the rule of law and
democracy. And I think that is a racist notion.
I think it is a notion based on hundreds of years of
colonialism going back to, well, back to when Haiti was a
colony. But for the many years that France, after Haiti had the
only successful national-level slave rebellion in history and
kicked out Napoleon's army, France actually said Haiti had
stolen its property; namely, themselves and their own land, and
demanded reparations. And the U.S. supported this position.
Obviously, I do not need to recite the whole history here.
But let's talk about how we would actually step by step
gather together the organizations of the civil society, stand
up a transitional government, and move toward a new era of real
sort of bottom-up democracy in Haiti. How do you see that
happening? What are the steps we need to go through?
Ms. Douyon. Thank you.
First of all, I think even if now Haiti is a failed state,
we are not condemned to being a failed state forever.
Mr. Levin. Amen.
Ms. Douyon. And you mentioned Taiwan here, and I am lucky
enough to have received a scholarship to study in Taiwan. I
have studied for four and a half years, and I have studied how
Taiwan went from poverty to the state they are now. This is a
very inspiring story, and I do not see what prevents Haiti from
doing the same, except for corrupt officials and the fact that
the international community is always somehow supporting them.
Because we all know that those people are not using the foreign
assistance, for example, to conduct the projects they were
supposed to do. But, still, they give them more money.
History has been written now. For example, the U.S. has
supported the dictatorship of Duvalier, and now it is being
perceived that we are supporting a corrupt President, the first
one to be indicted while he is in power and the first one to
have so many people taking to the street to ask for his
resignation.
In fact, we have plans for our country. They are so many
groups from civil society, the youth, working on a plan, for 30
years, a development plan, for Haiti. The other one that has
done the fight against the dictatorship, they are here; they
want to help. There are so many people committed to fighting
corruption and to build a new country now, and we need to
invest in key priorities.
Haiti needs to be able to identify the priorities. We do
not need the solutions that are easy for NGO's to run, like
just distributing food aid. This is not helping. We cannot feed
2.6 million people forever. Food security, we will not solve it
by distributing food. We need to strengthen the agricultural
sector. We need to invest in education.
People who have studied abroad, a lot of people from my
generation, we have studied abroad. We are qualified. Yet, we
cannot answer the public administration because it is crippled
by corruption. There is no way; they will not let us do
anything there.
This is what we want to change. We want to let people give
those people the opportunity to serve. We need to trust the
civil society. We need to trust the PetroChallengers. We need
to trust those people who do not want to give up on Haiti now,
those people who do not want to leave the country.
I could have left Haiti. I could have come here. Canada is
actually----
Mr. Levin. I am sure you would be very successful here,
just based on your performance this morning.
Ms. Douyon. Thank you. Thank you.
Mr. Levin. No kidding.
Ms. Douyon. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Like Canada is attracting all our qualified Haitians. The
brain drain is really severe. Like if you have a Master's
degree, at some point you get tired and you leave. We do not
want this. We want Haitians to serve Haiti, and we can just
trust those people from the civil society.
And after that, we fight gang violence because they will
not let us just change this country. They will fight for their
interests. They are smuggling merchandise on the border. They
are having State contracts and it is a lot of contracts. They
will not let it happen that easily. This is why we need
support, and this is why we need, also, for the international
community to believe that we can decide what is good for
ourselves and we can find a Haitian-led solution to this
crisis.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Congressman Meeks.
Mr. Meeks. Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this very,
very important hearing.
I listened to my colleague from Massachusetts, and I think
New York is the second-largest number of Haitians. In Queens, I
have a tremendous amount.
And I would be remiss if I did not say that, of course,
anybody that is from African-American origin owes a deep debt
of gratitude for the leaders of Haiti who decided that they
were not going to be slaves and made sure that they wanted to
be free.
I also would be remiss if I did not say that one of the
greatest frustrations that I have had in the 21 years that I
have been a Member of the U.S. Congress is the fact that, for
some reason, one way or the other, we seem not to have gotten
Haiti right, because the situation has not changed. We have had
hopes at certain times after elections with certain Presidents.
We thought that we were on a good path. And one way or another,
something has happened, whether it is corruption that takes
place, whether the policies of the United States, the money is
going to the wrong place.
I know in my own district, to a large part, it is divided,
depending upon who I talk to. One says to do one thing, that I
should be doing one thing as a Member of Congress, and another
group says I should be doing something else that is absolutely
wrong. But we are trying to figure out how to do it.
I think, ultimately, the power does rest, when I listen to
you, Ms. Douyon, in the people of Haiti to decide to come
together. When I see folks getting together, as I have seen
recently in Hong Kong, they are fighting for democracy and
trying to make sure that their voices are heard. Hopefully,
those voices will break through. The same thing I think has to
happen. And we do need the fact that we have young people and
women and others involved in the political process because I do
not see how we get it done without the political process, and
to figure out how do we get good people to run and governments
to be transparent.
Ultimately, I do not see how the United States is going to
be able to come in and demand or say that this is the person
you should vote for, et cetera. It really has to come from the
ground up and through and by the people of Haiti to make that
determination. Because we often talk about, when you think
about colonialism and others, that is when other people come in
and try to tell folks, ``This is what you need to do. This is
how you have to do it,'' et cetera. And I do not I want to be
in a position to do those kinds of things as a U.S. Government.
That being said, I do not want us to spend our money in the
wrong place that will cause damage to everyday Haitians. For
example, one of the things that I was concerned about, I know
when I talked to the State Department they said that the U.S.
assistance to the Haitian National Police has helped strengthen
their capacity and increased their ranks to 15,000. However,
was that the right thing for us to do, to increase it? Because
I do not know.
When I looked at the United Nations High Commissioner for
Human Rights, they found that at least 42 people have died
during the recent protests and 86 have been injured. And out of
the 42 deaths, at least 19 can be attributed to the security
forces.
So, do I want to give money to the Haitian National Police
if, in fact, they are promoting human rights violations? No. Do
I want to have peace and try to make sure that people are
protected, so that they can protest and do everything?
Absolutely. So, I am in a position of trying to determine what
should we do. What should I do, as a Member of the U.S.
Congress, in the policies that we put forward and the money
that we want to invest? Where should we do it? Where should we
put it? Is it a right thing? Is it a wrong thing?
So, I have got a minute to go. Do I have anyone to answer
those questions? Mr. Erikson?
Mr. Erikson. Sure. I think that one very important role for
Congress could be to go to Haiti soon and really assess the
situation.
Regarding the question of the Haitian National Police, I
think, ultimately, civilian security in Haiti is going to
depend on national police, right? We do not want the army to
come back. But I think that this requires more in-depth
examination by Congress, either members of this committee or
others who may be interested to investigate this.
Thank you.
Mr. Garrastazu. And just to add to that, I think it is very
important--you were saying, what should we invest in--I think
we should invest in local governance, strengthening local
institutions. I think that is one of the best ways to move
forward, to really strengthen Haitians, and really also work
with the grassroots civil society organizations and really
build them up to be able to be those actors of change, those
political champions, that can really help move Haiti forward.
Mr. Meeks. Yes, sir.
Mr. Esperance. I believe we should keep on reinforcing the
security, the police force in Haiti. That is the only security
force that we have in Haiti. It is actually quite credible.
Other groups would be what we call they are attached to the
government, but the official force that we should really
support is the security, the police force. It is true that
there are issues when it comes to the police force, but that is
the only one that provides security, and we can even say that
it is one of the most, if not the most, credible institution
that we have in Haiti.
What we need to keep on doing is to de-politicize the
police force because there are some others that are coming from
the politicians, from government officials, to some members of
the police.
Please do not try to get soldiers and also members of the
U.N. forces, the blue berets, because they have spent almost 14
years in Haiti and it is like sucking up money. It is better to
try to reinforce the security force that we have in Haiti.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Congresswoman Wilson.
Ms. Wilson. Thank you.
Thank you for your questioning, Mr. Meeks, or Congressman
Meeks.
This is a very complex issue. And we live in the United
States and we have corruption. We have corruption right in our
White House, just like you have corruption in your President.
And to find an answer to that corruption, and to remove the
President of Haiti, there is a process in place and it is
called impeachment in Haiti.
What has happened to the impeachment process in Haiti, as
we try to debate the transitional government which the head of
the judiciary would be in charge of? Explain all of that to me
because I hear so many sides of they tried to impeach the
President, but people did not show up. Or what happened with
the impeachment of Mr. Moise? Anyone know?
Ms. Douyon. I think I can comment on this. First of all,
you mentioned that there is corruption in the U.S. as well, and
some people say that there is corruption everywhere in the
world. But this is not the same thing. Haiti is the poorest
country in the Western Hemisphere. We cannot afford that level
of corruption we have. And the way it is affecting Haiti, it is
not affecting the other countries.
And the impeachment of the President, we had that one
opportunity for the parliament to impeach the President. We had
that process. But what happened is that they voted against it.
But those same parliament members confessed to receiving money
from the government to vote. Those same parliament members are
the ones involved in scandals where they are wasting millions
of goods to buy coffee and water while the people do not have
access to potable water.
There is a corrupt parliament where the majority are allies
of the President and they are basically taking money. It is so
corrupt that they are allies of the President. Yet, they are
taking money from the President and his party to vote when he
needs the effort. So, basically, they came and, then, they did
not do what they were supposed to do. Most people were
expecting, because the charges are here, and it could have been
easy; this would have been done by now, but they did not. Yet,
they are proud to confess that they received money and it is
normal.
And you may have seen on the news that some of them are
really targeting, like fired a journalist. This is the kind of
people who are in charge of the impeachment. And it has come to
no surprise that it did not work.
Ms. Wilson. What role will they play in a transitional
government? What role would the government that is in Haiti now
play in a transitional government? How would that be structured
with the President and with the parliament and the upper
chamber, the senators?
Ms. Douyon. Okay. I just want to add that, for the moment,
we do not have a legal government. The one we have now is
illegal. We do not have a government and the President has not
been able to form one for the past 8 months.
Ms. Wilson. Because they do not show up to work?
Ms. Douyon. Because they only show up when they have their
own interests and they are paid to. Otherwise, like, for
example, when they wanted to fire the Prime Minister, they all
showed and it was quick and easy, and they were all proud to
say how efficient they are. But when they have to show up to do
their jobs, they do not.
And the President did not organize an election. Therefore,
we will not have a parliament next year starting the second
week of January. He will rule alone by decree. Therefore, we
will only have 9 or 10 senators. It is not really clear how
much people will stay because, as always, they always find a
way to mess things up. So, there can be uncertainty and they
will have to find a political solution, like it is amended. We
should know for how long they would stay, somehow knowing
exactly how many people should stay, but the fact is that we
will not have a parliament for the second week of January next
year, and we do not have a government now.
Ms. Wilson. But do you agree with Mr. Erikson about other
nations coming in? Can Mr. Erikson repeat what he said in his
testimony? I want Congressman Meeks to hear him.
Mr. Erikson. Sure. Just very briefly, I think we are in the
middle of three crises, right? The historic one that we have
discussed, the acute political crisis of the last 2 years, and
the crisis of apathy and indifference in the international
community. I think this hearing can help to address that latter
one.
But my proposal is, while all this good work is going on in
Haiti, to also re-energize the international community to see
if it can help with some sort of political process to get Haiti
past this impasse, which would be not just the United States,
but the other members of the Core Group, which is a set of
either countries or international institutions that have
engaged in Haiti. It has actually been fairly dormant over the
past 2 years. They include Brazil, Canada, the European Union,
France, Spain, Germany, as well as the United Nations and
Organization of American States.
Ms. Wilson. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Mr. Sires. Thank you very much. I want to thank the members
that came to the hearing.
And I want to thank the witnesses. You have been terrific.
You have been here for almost as long as the impeachment
hearing. No.
[Laughter.]
But I do thank you for your patience and your courage of
some of the witnesses that are here today.
And the challenges facing Haiti are significant and they
are not going away anytime soon. I look forward to continuing
to work with my colleagues on a bipartisan basis to see how we
can best use the resources of the U.S. Government to help lift
the Haitian people.
Again, I thank you. I thank all the members who have been
here.
With that, this hearing is closed.
[Whereupon, at 12:29 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
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STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD
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ADDITIONAL INFORMATION SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
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RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED
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[all]