[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S
FISCAL YEAR
BUDGET AND U.S. POLICY TOWARD
LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, CIVILIAN SECURITY, AND TRADE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
October 23, 2019
__________
Serial No. 116-71
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov,
or www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
38-071 PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York, Chairman
BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York Member
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida JOE WILSON, South Carolina
KAREN BASS, California SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts TED S. YOHO, Florida
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin
DINA TITUS, Nevada ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
DEAN PHILLPS, Minnesota JOHN CURTIS, Utah
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota KEN BUCK, Colorado
COLIN ALLRED, Texas RON WRIGHT, Texas
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania GREG PENCE, Indiana
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey STEVE WATKINS, Kansas
DAVID TRONE, Maryland MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
JIM COSTA, California
JUAN VARGAS, California
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
Jason Steinbaum, Staff Director
Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, and Trade
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey, Chairman
REGORY W. MEEKS, New York FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida,
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas Ranking Member
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota TED S. YOHO, Florida
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan JOHN CURTIS, Utah
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas KEN BUCK, Colorado
JUAN VARGAS, California MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
Sadaf Khan, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
Kozak, The Honorable Michael G., Acting Assistant Secretary,
Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs, U.S. Department of State. 7
Barsa, The Honorable John, Assistant Administrator, Bureau for
Latin America and the Caribbean, U.S. Agency for International
Development.................................................... 12
Glenn, Mr. Rich, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Bureau of
International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, U.S.
Department of State............................................ 21
APPENDIX
Hearing Notice................................................... 42
Hearing Minutes.................................................. 43
Hearing Attendance............................................... 44
STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD FROM COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Statement submitted for the record from Chairman Sires........... 45
RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Responses to questions submitted for the record from
Representative Sires........................................... 48
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S FISCAL YEAR BUDGET AND U.S. POLICY TOWARD
LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN
Wednesday, October 23, 2019
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,
Civilian Security and Trade
Committee on Foreign Affairs
Washington, DC
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2 p.m., in room
2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Albio Sires (chairman
of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Sires. This hearing will come to order. This hearing
titled The Trump Administration's Fiscal Year 2020 Budget and
U.S. Policy toward Latin America and the Caribbean will focus
on the Trump Administration's budget request and its policy
priorities for the Western Hemisphere. Without objection, all
members may have 5 days to submit statements, questions,
strenuous, but serious, for the record, subject to the length
limitation in the rules.
I will now make an opening statement and then turn it over
to the ranking member for his opening statement.
Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you to our witnesses
for being here today.
I have wanted to hold this hearing since the beginning of
this Congress. Unfortunately, the former Assistant Secretary
for Western Hemisphere Affairs refused to testify before this
subcommittee, despite numerous invitations and requests. All
recent Senate-confirmed Assistant Secretaries of State for
Western Hemisphere Affairs testified multiple times before the
House Foreign Affairs Committee during their tenures. It was a
disservice to Congress, to the constituents we are elected to
represent, and to those diplomats who served under Assistant
Secretary Kim Breier, that she chose to stonewall Congress. It
should go without saying that testifying before Congress is not
optional.
I am appreciative that Ambassador Kozak immediately
recognized the importance of this hearing and I am encouraged
that we have an Acting Assistant Secretary with such
distinguished record of public service.
The challenges facing United States leadership in the
Western Hemisphere are immense. In Venezuela, the Maduro
dictatorship has managed to cling to power, even in the face of
a severe humanitarian crisis that the Maduro regime created. I
commend the Colombian people and the Colombian Government for
their admirable response to the Venezuela crisis. I am proud of
our diplomats and staff on the ground, who have worked
tirelessly to promote a democratic transition and provide
humanitarian support and development assistance to the
Venezuelan people. That said, I am concerned about the impacts
of this crisis, the longer it drags on, and I will be asking
our witnesses today to provide a clear strategy for our
Venezuela policy going forward.
In the Northern Triangle, forced gang recruitment,
extortion, domestic violence, poverty, and the impacts of
climate change are among many factors forcing people to migrate
north. Unfortunately, under this Administration, U.S. policy
toward the Northern Triangle ignores that complex reality. In
March, the Trump Administration announced draconian cuts of
over $400 million in U.S. assistance to Guatemala, Honduras,
and El Salvador. Administration officials reached this decision
without consulting Congress or even assessing the impact of our
assistance programs on migration flows to the United States.
Since imposing those cuts, administration officials have
coerced Northern Triangle governments into signing safe third
country agreements, which aim to deny people who are fleeing
violence the right to seek asylum in the United States. The
Trump Administration seems to believe that we can stop
migration by criminalizing desperation.
I strongly disagree with the approach. I believe that the
U.S. must instead work as a partner to create conditions so
that Hondurans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorans can see a future
in their home countries. We must also reclaim our commitment to
combating government corruption in Guatemala, an effort that
the Bush Administration and bipartisan Members of Congress long
championed, but which this Administration has backed away from.
I am convinced that China's increased presence in the region
poses a threat to U.S. interests. However, cutting our foreign
assistance to the region by nearly 30 percent, as this
Administration proposed in its budget request, will only worsen
the problem. We will not overcome the challenges posed by China
by cutting foreign assistance and strong-arming our allies.
True alliances, based on mutual respect, are America's
comparative advantage over China. We need to deepen our
engagement with the region in order to regain our competitive
edge.
Moreover, if we are going to play a leadership role in
addressing the many crises facing the region, we must be seen
as an honest broker. We must call on Bolivian authorities to
ensure the election results reflect the will of the people. We
must stand in solidarity with the Haitian people, who are
suffering under crippling poverty and are asking only that
their political leaders finally start doing what they were
elected to do. And we must continue to support brave activists
in Cuba and Nicaragua who are demanding basic human rights,
even in the face of severe repression.
I look forward to a productive discussion on these and many
other challenges in the Western Hemisphere. I hope we can all
agree on a path forward for the United States to deepen
engagement with our allies and advance our shared interests in
the Western Hemisphere.
Thank you and I will now turn to Ranking Member Rooney for
his opening statement.
Mr. Rooney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Chairman Sires. I want
to thank you for holding this long overdue budget hearing. And
as you commented, I want to thank Secretary Kozak,
Administrator Barsa, and Secretary Glenn for underscoring the
importance of this hearing and for being here today.
Oversight of the Administration's foreign aid budget for
the Western Hemisphere is among this subcommittee's most
important responsibilities. In light of concerning attempts to
cut aid to the region, I am glad to finally have this
opportunity.
Today, we will review the Trump Administration's $1.2
billion 2020 request and discuss the Administration's
priorities for the region. The prosperity and stability of the
region is vital to the United States' national security
interests, and in many ways, this Administration has
demonstrated that it understands this. Inconsistent and
episodic United States' attention to the region is a chronic
problem and perhaps more than previous administrations, the
Trump Administration has paid significant attention to Latin
America. For example, since 2017, the President has made one
visit to Argentina, Vice President Pence has made five visits
to the region, and Secretary Pompeo has made six.
The Administration has also shown its unquestioned
commitment to democracy in the region by clearly condemning the
dictatorships in Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua and standing
for human rights.
I commend the Trump Administration for applying sanctions
to corrupt actors and human rights violators in these countries
and for their commitment to supporting the brave people who
risk their lives for freedom every day in Latin America.
I also commend the administration for making the United
States the first country to recognize Venezuelans' interim
President Guaido, and for continuing to lead the world in
supporting the legitimate national assembly and peaceful
democratic transition in Venezuela. Despite initial concerns
over the Administration's opposition to NAFTA, the new USMCA
actually seems to improve our strong relationship with Mexico.
We also continue to maintain our critical relationship with
Colombia and Argentina and are taking advantage of
opportunities to strengthen our ties with Brazil, Ecuador,
Panama, Peru, and Chile.
However, security and economic challenges continue to
plague the Northern Triangle countries of Guatemala, Honduras,
and El Salvador, churning an unprecedented wave of irregular
migration to our southern border. We also continue to face
threat from transnational crime and even Hezbollah in South
America.
Recent social unrest in Ecuador and Chile and the blatant
irregularities seen in Sunday's Presidential elections in
Bolivia, demonstrate the fragile state of the region's
democratic institutions.
We must also address the threat in which climate change
poses to rural and indigenous populations throughout the region
and we have seen greatest incidents of this recently in
Guatemala and how this also contributes to migration, not only
to our border, but throughout the hemisphere.
China's growing influence in the region threatens our
national security and continues to be a concern, threatening to
erode democratic values, perpetuate systemic corruption, and
undermine the rule of law. Colombia's granting of the country's
largest infrastructure project in their history to a Chinese
consortium, part of which has been barred by the World Bank, is
the most recent and very concerning example of maligned Chinese
influence throughout the region.
I want to commend the State Department for successfully
stopping an equally bad investment of China in El Salvador. To
be clear, we do not want to dictate who sovereign nations deal
with, but we do want to guarantee a level playing field.
The U.S. must continue to strongly engage in Latin America
and the Caribbean and facilitate conditions where United
States' private investments can thrive. Energy security and
disaster resilience in the Caribbean are other opportunities
for American investments.
I am deeply concerned about continued cuts in U.S.
financial support to Latin America and the Caribbean and
especially about the cutting of aid to the Northern Triangle.
Our foreign assistance is a critical tool to advance our
national interests and address the aforementioned challenges.
I want to thank our witnesses again for being here today. I
look forward to their testimoneys and look forward also to
hearing their thoughts on the budget and how we can maintain
our strategic influence in Latin America and the Caribbean.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Sires. Thank you very much, Ranking Member Rooney. I
will now introduce the Honorable Michael G. Kozak, Acting
Assistant Secretary for Western Hemisphere Affairs. Previously
Ambassador Kozak held two Acting Assistant Secretary roles in
the Bureau of Inter-American Affairs and the Bureau for
Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor. Prior to this appointment,
he held the role of Senior Director of the National Security
Council staff and served as the United States Ambassador to
Belarus and the Chief of Mission in Cuba.
Ambassador Kozak, welcome.
We will then hear from the Honorable John Barsa, Assistant
Administrator for the Bureau of Latin America and the Caribbean
at the United States Agency for International Development.
Prior to his appointment, Mr. Barsa served as the Principal
Deputy Assistant Secretary at the Department of Homeland
Security's Office of Partnership and Engagement. He also served
in the United States Army Reserves with the 11th Special Forces
Group and later the Civil Affairs Battalion.
Mr. Barsa, thank you for your service and for being here
today.
Finally, we will hear from Mr. Richard Glenn, Deputy
Assistant Secretary of State in the Bureau of International
Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs. In his current role, Mr.
Glenn oversees the Office of Anti-Crime Program and Western
Hemisphere Programs. He began his work with the INL in 2011 as
Deputy Director of the Merida Initiative in Mexico City and has
also served in Ecuador and Argentina.
Mr. Glenn, thank you for being here.
I ask the witnesses to please limit your testimony to 5
minutes and without objection your prepared written statements
will be made part of the record.
Assistant Secretary Kozak, I will turn to you for your
testimony.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE MICHAEL G. KOZAK, ACTING ASSISTANT
SECRETARY, BUREAU OF WESTERN HEMISPHERE AFFAIRS, U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Hon. Kozak. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member
Rooney and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the
opportunity to testify on the Fiscal Year 2020 foreign
assistance request for the Western Hemisphere.
This is a time of great challenge and opportunity in the
region. If we are successful in our efforts to promote
democracy in Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua, and we intend to
be, we will need to provide assistance that is qualitatively
and quantitatively different than what we are providing at
present to combat the repressive regimes that hold those
countries hostage.
We expect our partners in Central America to show political
will to break with the past to curb unsafe and illegal
immigration and corruption, and to allow all of their citizens
to pursue prosperity for themselves and their families. If they
do so, they will find us ready to provide significant
assistance. But for those who seek to maintain the status quo,
we will not let them use our assistance as a facade for their
lack of political will to make real reform. Given these
challenges and opportunities, Mr. Chairman, we have proposed
assistance programs with the recognition that they may need to
be significantly reshaped in coordination with you and the
subcommittee as events unfold in the region.
Our $1.19 billion request prioritizes programs that address
trafficking and drugs and smuggling of people by transnational
criminal organizations and we seek to create an environment for
increased U.S. trade and investment, security, and prosperity
in the region to benefit our interests. Our assistance
strengthens border security and combats corruption. These
programs work if the partner governments are truly committed,
so we expect our partners to stand up against corruption and
against those who seek to preserve the economic and governance
status quo.
The request for the Western Hemisphere includes eight
primary components. For Venezuela, we are requesting $9 million
to support democratic actors, but we also are asking for $500
million transfer authority that would provide flexibility to
expand U.S. support for a democratic transition and to meet
Maduro-imposed regional migration challenges. We will continue
to direct U.S. foreign assistance resources to support
Venezuelan democracy as represented by the democratically
elected National Assembly and interim President Guaido.
We are requesting $78.9 million for Mexico. Of this $76.25
is for the Merida Initiative to combat illicit poppy
cultivation, heroin production, and fentanyl trafficking. It
also supports Mexican efforts to reduce violence, and promote
greater respect for human rights.
$445 million is proposed for El Salvador, Guatemala, and
Honduras. We expect the governments of these three countries to
take action to reduce illegal immigration to the United States
in time to be factored into the 2020 appropriations process.
Last week, the President supported some targeted foreign
assistance aimed at advancing our joint efforts to deter
illegal immigration from those countries. But our programs
cannot be a substitute for political will. The governments of
El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras must demonstrate that they
are willing to stand up to those who profit from the status quo
which generates large numbers of illegal immigrants arriving at
the U.S. southern border.
For Colombia, we are requesting $344.4 million for
counternarcotics efforts and peace implementation. Colombia has
shown the political will necessary to confront the severe
challenge of coca production. Colombia continues to absorb the
largest influx of Venezuelans fleeing the crisis in their
country. And we will continue to support Colombia as it
responds to these migration flows.
In Haiti, the $145.5 million request serves to promote good
governance and advance economic growth. It will continue to
build the capacity of the Haitian National Police, and to
support assistance to reduce the prevalence of HIV/AIDS. We
urge the elected representatives of the Haitian people to take
steps necessary to stabilize democratic governance.
For Peru, the $55.1 million request will support efforts to
combat the illicit drug trade and transnational criminal
organizations through tightly paired eradication and
alternative development programs. Peruvian-based security
initiative remains critical to combat crime and violence. The
$40.2 million will strengthen law enforcement capacity and
improve justice institutions.
Finally, the request includes $6 million to support
democracy, human rights, and civil society in Cuba; $1 million
for democracy programming for Ecuador, and another $6 million
for democracy in Nicaragua.
Again, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, if our
policies are successful in promoting change, we will welcome
the opportunity to consult with you to take advantage of such
positive developments. I look forward to your questions. Thank
you, sir.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Kozak follows:]
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Mr. Sires. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
Assistant Administrator Barsa, you are recognized.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JOHN BARSA, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR,
BUREAU FOR LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN, U.S. AGENCY FOR
INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
Hon. Barsa. Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Rooney, and
Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to
testify today. I am grateful for the Committee's bipartisan
support for USAID's work in Latin America and the Caribbean.
USAID is requesting $547 million in Fiscal Year 2020
resources for programs that advance the U.S. national security
and economic prosperity, demonstrate American generosity, and
promote a path to recipient self-reliance and resilience.
Our most pressing priority is Venezuela. Nicolas Maduro's
inept political and economic policies, corruption, and the use
of fear and violence have caused a humanitarian and political
crisis that overflows the borders of Venezuela. The United
States stands in solidarity with Venezuelans and the government
of Interim President Guaido. We have provided nearly $644
million in humanitarian and development assistance to support
programs inside Venezuela and throughout the region.
With Fiscal Year 2020 resources, USAID will continue
programs that support human rights, civil society, independent
media, electoral oversight, and the democratically elected
National Assembly.
We are also supporting democratic actors in Nicaragua and
Cuba. With bipartisan support from Congress, we remain
committed to helping Nicaragua and NGO's and political
activists as they seek change in peaceful, democratic ways.
USAID programs in Cuba support human rights, the free flow
of information, civil society, and humanitarian assistance to
political prisons and their families.
In other countries, we seek to buildupon progress we have
made in recent years. USAID helps to advance programs in
Colombia that further a just and sustainable peace, economic
development, citizen security, and a culture of legality in
former conflict zones.
In Mexico, our programs work to prevent crime, improve
access to justice, and strengthen civil society.
In Brazil, USAID works to conserve biodiversity while
advancing prosperity through responsible economic development.
Our assistance in Peru helps reduce the production and
trafficking of illicit drugs by supporting economically viable
alternatives to growing coca.
We welcome the recent decision to partially move forward
with certain targeted U.S. foreign assistance activities in El
Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras.
The success of our work depends on the leadership and
political will of our host country partners. Using data shared
with us by U.S. Customs and Border Protection, we are better
targeting current and potential programs. We are also
specifically adding migration metrics to assess the impact of
our work.
As Assistant Administrator, I am committed to working with
our partners in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras to address
the root causes of illegal immigration to the United States.
The U.S. Government places a high priority on our work
under the U.S. Strategy for Engagement in the Caribbean. Just
last week, we announced $5 million to reduce electricity
prices, increase service quality, and make electricity systems
in the Caribbean more resilient.
And today, we have announced a $2 million partnership with
the Caribbean Institute for Meteorology and Hydrology to help
countries address the risks and improve disaster response.
USAID was proud to stand with the Bahamian Government with
humanitarian assistance in the immediate aftermath of Hurricane
Dorian. I recently traveled to the Bahamas with Administrator
Green when he announced an additional $7.5 million to help with
relief and recovery which brought USAID's total humanitarian
assistance to nearly $34 million. We remain in close contact
with the Bahamian Government about their plans and needs
regarding long-term recovery.
In Haiti, where political instability and violence reminds
us that progress continues to be fragile, USAID resources
address poverty, food security, healthcare services, and
advance accountable governmental institutions.
I am particularly excited about the recent developments in
our relationship with Ecuador. Thanks to President Moreno's re-
engagement with the United States, Administrative Green signed
a Memorandum of Understanding with the Government of Ecuador in
May 2019 and we plan to reopen an office in the next year.
We also are continuing to monitor the extensive development
needs and political situation in Bolivia. After expelling USAID
in 2013, Morales has given no indication that he is willing to
work with the United States. However, he recently requested
assistance from USAID to fight the Amazon fires.
In conclusion, this is just a short overview of our
programs and plans for Fiscal Year 2020 resources. We will
continue to work on the prosperity, security, and good
governance programs, and encourage people to build better
societies for their families and home communities.
I thank the subcommittee for its interest in support of our
work. I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Barsa follows:]
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Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Mr. Glenn, you are recognized.
STATEMENT OF RICHARD H. GLENN, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY,
BUREAU OF INTERNATIONAL NARCOTICS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AFFAIRS,
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Mr. Glenn. Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Rooney, members
of the subcommittee, it is a pleasure to be here today to
testify on the President's Fiscal Year 2020 budget request and
the policy priorities for the Western Hemisphere.
The efforts of the Department of State's Bureau of
International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, better
known as INL, are vital to our national security interests. INL
builds the capacity of foreign partners to disrupt
transnational crime and other security threats before they
reach our borders. Our request of $484 million will enable INL
to address the most pressing security issues directly affecting
the United States. We will prioritize combating drug-
trafficking organizations and transnational gangs. We will
address the deadly opioid epidemic in the United States. And we
will work with Mexico and Central America to address the
migration crisis at our southern border.
The $209 million request for Colombia represents the
largest portion of our request. Colombia remains the world's
largest producer of cocaine and is the source of over 90
percent of the cocaine seized in the United States. The
majority of funding will support our joint commitment with the
Colombian Government to cut coca cultivation and cocaine
production levels in half by the end of 2023. We are on target
to reach that goal.
Last year, illicit coca cultivation decreased for the first
time since 2012. Coca eradication is the cornerstone of this
support. With our support, President Duque has quadrupled the
number of manual eradicators and achieved the highest level of
manual eradication in the last 7 years. We will support the
restart of a safe and effective Colombian led aerial
eradication program. However, eradication is only part of the
solution. These efforts must be joined by expanded police
presence, crop substitution, and alternative development
activities to sustainably reduce cocaine production. INL, along
with USAID and the Government of Colombia, have agreed to a
focused implementation of these types of programs in key areas
to sustain counternarcotics gains. These efforts combined with
our support for interdiction, anti-money laundering, asset
forfeiture, and justice sector reform will deliver the results
that we all seek.
Closer to home, Mexico is the origin of most heroin and
methamphetamine consumed here and remains the major transit
zone for cocaine destined for the United States. We are alarmed
at the emergence of fentanyl production in Mexico. Our work
with Mexico seeks to intensify counternarcotics cooperation
through strengthening border security, increasing the
operational capacity of law enforcement units, and ensuring the
Mexican criminal justice system serves its citizenry and ends
impunity.
Our programs build the capacity of Mexican criminal justice
actors to attack each component of the organized crime business
model to reduce drug production, control cross-border
trafficking, remove illicit profits, and restore government
control over all its territory. As the President has noted,
Mexico needs to do more to root out organized crime. Two weeks
ago INL Assistant Secretary Madison traveled to Mexico to urge
them to develop and share a comprehensive counternarcotics
strategy, an especially urgent task given the events of last
week in Mexico.
In Central America, INL increases our partners' ability to
stop drug trafficking, combats organized crime, and addresses
security-related drivers of migration. INL will expand our
maritime interdiction efforts with an eye toward enhanced
bilateral and multilateral information sharing and operations.
In El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, we will continue
to address the security-related drivers of migration.
Transnational gangs, like MS-13, perpetuate violence,
insecurity, and commit acts of extortion in Central America and
in the United States. We will support vetted units and
specialized task forces to investigate and prosecute cases and
to serve as reliable trusted partners of U.S. law enforcement.
Our efforts focus on multi-national approaches to collect,
analyze, and disseminate intelligence, to identify criminals,
and transnational crime trends in the region. We remain
committed to strengthening justice sector institutions and
confronting the foundational threats posed by endemic
corruption.
The challenges we face are serious, but we are seeing
results, especially when partner countries have the political
will to put our assistance to proper use. Obviously, more work
remains to sustain these gains. Our Fiscal Year 2020 Year
request is critical to those efforts. Thank you and I look
forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Glenn follows:]
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Mr. Sires. Thank you. Secretary Kozak, I am going to start
with something that is close to home. You know, in May, I sent
a letter with eight of my colleagues from New Jersey to
Secretary Pompeo asking the State Department to help me solve
an issue of land bonds owed by the Peruvian Government to
pensioners in my State. It is about $57 million.
Is there any way that we can approach Peru to see if they
can pay what they owe 72,000 pensioners in my State that are
concerned about the money that Peru is not paying? So I would
ask you if you could in your travels when you speak to the
Peruvian Government, tell them that we are well aware that they
have not paid their bills.
And as someone who in 2009 voted for the Peruvian free
trade agreement, I kind of feel that it was a slap in the face
what they are doing to the State of New Jersey. So do you have
any idea if they intend to pay this?
Hon. Kozak. Yes, Mr. Chairman, and indeed your letter to
the Secretary has had effect. The Secretary himself has raised
it with the senior levels of the Peruvian Government. I
already, in my interactions with them, have raised the same
issue. And it is interesting you mentioned the 2009 agreement.
What has happened is that that agreement had a provision in it
that allowed American claimants to bring arbitration cases with
Peru and at least the holders of the bulk of those bonds have
brought such an arbitration case is my understanding. I believe
it is to be heard at the beginning of next year. In the
conversations we have had with the Peruvians, they are saying
they will, of course, abide by the result of that arbitration.
So, I think it is in a process now that hopefully will lead to
a result in the not too distant future. It is very much on our
minds and we appreciate you having brought it to our attention.
Mr. Sires. You know this is theirs. A way to invest and
they asked the people in different countries do certain things
and then we do not get paid. I think Argentina had some issues
with that also. So I would just--it is very hard to get the
people to invest and then not get paid. That is just--I do not
understand that.
I want to talk a little bit about something that is very
bothersome to me. I remember the Merida Initiative. I guess
this will go to you, Mr. Glenn. We have invested close to $2
billion in Mexico under the Merida Initiative. And the homicide
rate in August was the highest on record. Is it worth it to
continue to invest money in Mexico? I mean, the other day I saw
that the Sinaloa cartel took over a town of a million people
and Mexico basically walked away. That is very disturbing to me
as someone who supported the Merida Initiative right from the
beginning.
Where are we with this Merida Initiative?
Mr. Glenn. First, if I may, I want to recognize and thank
the many members of the Mexican law enforcement and military
who wear the uniform and who are patriots to their nation and
who are dedicated to the fight against transnational organized
crime. They are there. Many of them are personal friends of
mine and are respected colleagues and associates. They are
passionate about the work that they do. They believe in
upholding the rule of law.
And one of the things that we have been able to do through
the Merida Initiative is to equip and build their capacity to
be able to confront organized crime. We know that they are
capable. We know because we helped build that capacity.
As I mentioned in my testimony, I think what is of greatest
importance at this moment is that Mexico develop and share with
us a comprehensive strategy to confront transnational organized
crime. Without that strategy and without us knowing what that
strategy is and being able to match our funding and our
abilities with their strategic direction we won't see progress.
But obviously, the events of last week were very concerning to
us.
Mr. Sires. But it has been 10 years that we have been
giving money to this initiative and we still do not have a plan
to deal with international organized crime. Is that what you
are telling me?
Mr. Glenn. I think what we need to see is a greater
political commitment from the highest levels of government in
Mexico.
Mr. Sires. Thank you. Ranking Member Rooney.
Mr. Rooney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I might start by
asking Administrator Barsa about what programs we have in place
to deal with climate change in Latin America. I think you
mentioned that during your testimony and I know that AID is
doing some things that I have heard about.
Hon. Barsa. We do. Well, certainly we do not have--
regarding climate change, we are certainly not in the position
to adjudicate causality or anything like that, but we certainly
do have programs to deal with the effects of weather in any
number of sectors. Certainly, our work in the Amazon in Brazil,
we are looking at how the weather effects working with
indigenous groups on preservation of the rain forest.
We had some announcements we made today about $2 million
for increased ability to monitor hurricanes and weather events.
We announced a few days ago $5 million to invest in the
Caribbean Renewable Energy Forum which is also going to
increase energy resiliency within the Caribbean.
We are also looking at programs certainly in the Western
Highlands of Guatemala and other places. We are certainly
cognizant of the effect of weather changes, so we are looking
for food security, where applicable, that cuts across the
region any number of activities.
Mr. Rooney. Secretary Kozak, do you have any comments? We
were talking about this the other day, there were articles
about Guatemala with the impact on the coffee production.
Hon. Kozak. Yes, sir. There has been a drought in the
region and some severe consequence for a lot of the growers
there. And AID has been working programs.
I think what I would add is that in addition to trying to
deal with the immediate effects of climate and so on, what we
are looking for is some real reform in these countries so that
people are not in a position where a bad turn in the weather
with a hurricane coming through or a year's worth of drought or
something is going to destroy them or destroy their lives. We
need to see these economies become much more robust and growing
and have more diversity in the types of activity.
So there is both the immediate problem of how you deal with
these effects of weather disasters, but then the broader
problem, how do you end up with economies that are not heavily
dependent on subsistence farming and that kind of thing.
Mr. Rooney. Thank you. The other question I might ask and
start with you, Secretary Kozak, is now that we have got this
new thing in Bolivia, what do you think we can do there?
Hon. Kozak. Yes, sir. Well, one thing we did do was fully
support the election observation mission that the Organization
of American States put in place, as well as some affiliated
election observers. The Bolivians have had the opportunity to
have a good, clean election. It was in the process of moving
forward and then inexplicably they stopped counting the votes
and then announced inconsistent results.
Our urging to them, and we are making it both publicly and
privately, is that they respect the votes that were cast by the
Bolivian people. It is not that hard to determine how they cast
their votes. They have actas that show the count. And they
should do that and abide by the result. If they do not, we are
making clear that there are going to be some serious
consequences in their relationships throughout the region.
Prior to this, they have been considered a democratically
elected government even though they sometimes have had policies
and attitudes toward us that were not all that productive, like
throwing out USAID a few years back. But we treated them as a
legitimately elected government.
Mr. Rooney. The Post ran that article last week about how
it may be socialistic, but it seems to be working for the
people.
Hon. Kozak. Well, at this point, I think it is not working
for the people if you do not let the people make a choice.
Mr. Rooney. Right.
Hon. Kozak. Right now, my colleague, Ambassador Carlos
Trujillo, is at the OAS. They are having a permanent council
meeting on this and I think you will see a pretty strong
response from the whole hemisphere. It is not just a U.S.-
Bolivia thing. It is democracy in the region versus an effort
to interfere with it.
Mr. Rooney. How many votes do you think you will get?
Hon. Kozak. I am not going to speculate, sir. My guess
though is it is going to be pretty strong in terms of the
democracies in the region. I mean this is the kind of thing
that the Inter-American Democratic Charter and so on was
designed to deal with. You cannot have elections and then just
ignore the results.
Mr. Rooney. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Congressman Gonzalez.
Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you. And I want to thank the panel for
being here with us today.
Last spring, the Mexican Government announced--I am going
to change the subject a little bit to Mexico and some followup
to what the chairman was talking about. Last spring, the
Mexican Government announced the Safe Highway Pilot Program. I
am not sure, maybe Mr. Glenn might be familiar with this, but I
was particularly excited. I flew down to Mexico City. I met
with Secretary Durazo because I have a huge concern of the
trade route from Monterrey to the border to my district in
Texas where a lot of trade and tourism crosses. And it has
become highly dangerous. In fact, I have not crossed into
Reynosa in 11 years and sometimes they say it is safer than
others, but at the end of the day it still is not completely
safe and it is not where it used to be.
They agreed to honor my request and they put Highway 40
into this pilot program of safe highways. However, to this day,
I have not seen time bars. It really has not become a reality.
I have seen nothing come to fruition and unfortunately, this is
very impactful to trade and I am surprised when we are talking
taxes and tariffs in our trade agreement that we are not
talking about security costs and extortion costs that many
people in the business community including Americans doing
business in Mexico are forced to pay. And it does not seem like
it has been addressed forcefully enough.
Are you aware of the risk drivers of both cargo and tourist
passengers face driving down Highway 40 or other highways I am
sure in Mexico? They told me this was the 17th most dangerous,
but to me, it is the most important, that they are dealing
with. Are you familiar with this program or any other programs
intended to address the insecurity on Mexico's highways and
trade routes like Highway 40? And what steps is the U.S.
Government taking to address these concerns?
I very rarely hear about here on the Hill or anywhere else
and I thought that not addressing this while we are talking
about trade and USMCA would be a missed opportunity. I have
grown up in South Texas. I remember the day when we would cross
the border and it was just another extension of our community.
Nice to drive to Monterrey and spend the weekend and come back.
As a lawyer, I did a lot of business in Mexico. And all that
changed about 12 years ago and has progressively gotten worse.
I will have government officials come and tell me that things
have improved and it is safer now, but it is really not.
What are we doing and what more can we do to address this?
And do you think right now while we are talking about USMCA, do
you think that this would be the appropriate time to address
this and maybe apply some pressure to get something done?
It is appalling that we have spent $2 billion which I know
is the right investment if you get the right results, but I do
not see the results and this is my second term in Congress and
it is pretty frustrating to see what is happening in Mexico.
And I know trade has been successful, but there are a lot of
issues happening on the border. I hear of exporters that have
an extra line item on the Mexican custom brokers that are to
pay the bad guys, if you will, and many, many stories as I am
sure you guys have probably heard about.
What do you have to say about this? What can we do? I am
really disenchanted with what is happening and I am very
concerned. It has impacted the local economy in South Texas. We
had a lot of tourism. We had a billion dollars a year of
legitimate Mexican business deposits in banks in South Texas.
They have been impacted. The tourist industry has been
impacted. Our sales taxes are down all because of insecurity.
When I talk to my friends in Monterrey, Mexico and they say
hey, I am going to be in town for the weekend, why do not you
come up? I am like, you know, I do not go anymore because I
feel like I am risking my life and my family's life. These are
the good people in Mexico that are not allowed to come because
of the insecurity. And I think we could do a lot more. I think
we have really failed and here, a $2 billion figure that has
been expended and you still cannot drive to Monterrey. Clearly,
something is broken and what can we do to make it better? And
what information would you have that maybe I do not have? Thank
you.
Mr. Glenn. Thank you, Congressman. I would be happy to
address the security aspect of that. The Mexican Government is
currently undergoing a transition from what was the Federal
Police that had responsibility for the highways and highway
safety. Basically, they are highway patrol. With the creation
of their National Guard, the Federal Police is being disbanded
and absorbed into that National Guard entity.
My view from at least Washington is that that transition,
transitions that are that big normally is rough and they are
going through some difficulties in transitioning to that new
National Guard structure. And it will be some time before they
are fully on their feet.
At the moment, as far as I know, the Mexicans have not
asked formally for assistance in the formation of that National
Guard. Of course, we stand ready to provide assistance that is
tied to U.S. national security goals if they so sought.
Again, I would go back to the criticality of the Mexican
Government at the highest levels developing a national security
strategy and one that is specific to counternarcotics and
organized crime. Without that, it is difficult to organize a
reaction.
Mr. Gonzalez. This transition is the last year. How about 9
years prior to this while we were dishing out $2 billion and
really I think we should have more accountability and wanting
to see a result of that investment, especially places that
Americans visit and do business in. I am really upset.
I just sent a letter to the Mexican ambassadors and I am
for this trade agreement. I am for trade. It has transformed
our region and it has been good for all three countries
involved, but I am about to pull my vote if they do not do
something about this and I think we need to do more and I think
while we are talking about trade, it would be a missed
opportunity to not talk about the insecurity when we are
talking about taxes and tariffs and we are paying extortion
fees and extra security costs, how is that not a tax or a
tariff?
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman. Congressman Buck. Sorry,
Mr. Curtis, you do not look like Buck.
Mr. Curtis. That is the nicest thing you have said all day.
Mr. Sires. I apologize.
Mr. Curtis. No worries. Thank you very much. Thank you to
each of the three of you for being here. I would like to use my
comments to emphasize three points that have been bouncing
around in my head in relationship to travel that I have had in
this region. And the first is more of a comment than it is a
question. And that is my strong belief that your success in
this region is incredibly important and vital to the United
States, that every bit of success you have adds to the peace
and prosperity that we have here in the United States, that our
investment in time and energy and the men and women that work
not just for you but in that region for the United States are
doing very important work. So I just would like to emphasize
that and thank you all and the many people that you represent.
The second is the concern about China, their influence in
the region. It seems to be widespread. China has engaged in an
aggressive campaign to convince countries to switch their
allegiance from Taiwan to China. I actually have a bill that
addresses this. It is called the TAIPEI Act and I hope this
committee will pick this bill up and quickly address it.
I worry that our effort, our U.S. dollars spent in that
region are a small percent compared to the influence of China
and their maligning influence. And I am wondering if you can
address that and give us some hope that we can counter these
efforts or that we need to do more.
Hon. Kozak. Thank you, Mr. Curtis, first for the nice words
about our people. All three of our activities are working in
the region and they are out there every day on the front lines
for exactly the reasons you indicate_trying to improve things
because it does contribute directly to our security and
prosperity.
Second, on China, we have put a substantial effort into
this, and my principal deputy has been in our bureau the main
spark plug behind this thing. And I think we are making some
progress. What we are trying to get across to people in the
region is to say ``look, yes, you should trade with China. We
trade with China. It is a big country. It is a big market. But
trade on your terms. Trade on terms that are fair and
reciprocal and transparent.''
China is following, to me, what appears like a 19th century
imperialist model in merchantilism and government agencies and
so on. And this is why we cannot compete directly in terms of
what kinds of money they put out there to bribe people or to
stick other countries with unsustainable debt and this kind of
thing. But what we can do is say to the other countries,
``look, here are the kinds of things that they have been doing
around the world, do not fall for it. Do not get tricked into
this. Deal with them, but deal with them on 21st century terms,
and deal with us and we are ready to compete on a level playing
field.''
I think we are seeing real progress at the national level.
National governments are becoming much more cautious and
reading the fine print and so on. What we are seeing now (and
maybe it is a sign of that success) is that China is trying to
move to the municipal and provincial level in these countries
and see if they can find ways to make inroads there. So we are
going to keep trying to compete with them on that basis.
Mr. Curtis. Thank you. Mr. Barsa, you are ready to say
something. I can tell.
Hon. Barsa. Well, I am ready to say something because I am
so proud of the model that USAID has for the region compared to
the Chinese model. Our model of development is truly a model
where we have countries on a journey to self-reliance.
Administrator Green has said the goal of our foreign
assistance is to get countries to the point where foreign
assistance is not needed. So the best thing that we are doing
right now is providing a contrast to the Chinese model, which
is one of dependency. It is really not development in any form.
Mr. Curtis. I have seen that and I agree with you. And my
worry is the tantalizing nature of their deal versus our long
term, sustained help sometimes, I think, does not get compared
to what you would like it to.
Hon. Barsa. Well, to followup with what Ambassador Kozak
said, one of the things we are also doing is we are sharing
lessons learned, so oftentimes the Chinese will come in selling
``X'' and delivering ``Y'', so we want to make sure other
countries have informed decisions and they get these stories
about how these----
Mr. Curtis. Thank you. I am going to run out of time. I am
going to make my last point and that is of Venezuela and my
great fear that despite all of our best efforts, it is still
not enough, knowing that we have got to find a way to help the
good people there and the countries that surround them and
helping them as well. Thank you very much.
Mr. Chairman, I am out of time and I yield.
Mr. Sires. Mr. Levin.
Mr. Levin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I am going to have
my beloved chairman give me the hook when we are out of time
because I have a lot of questions and I do not know if there
are other folks waiting on the other side. I definitely do not
want to block anyone else. And then I have to go to the floor
to give an amendment.
I thank you all so much for coming. I want to start by
asking a question about a country that others, or some
questions that others may not ask about which is Haiti. Earlier
this week, The New York Times reported on the ongoing political
and economic crisis there and I want to read you a little
excerpt from that powerful and very bleak piece.
``Gas shortages are worsening by the day. Hospitals have
cut services or closed entirely. Public transportation has
grounded to a halt. Businesses have shuttered. Most schools
have been closed since early September, leaving millions of
children idle with no end in sight. Widespread layoffs have
compounded chronic poverty and hunger. Uncertainty hangs over
everything.''
Ambassador Kozak, has the State Department engaged with the
Moise administration on anti-corruption and accountability
efforts in the wake of the Petrocaribe investigation?
Hon. Kozak. Yes, Mr. Levin.
Mr. Levin. You have. And can you tell me what progress has
been achieved?
Hon. Kozak. I was going to give you the broader engagement
with Haiti.
Mr. Levin. Well, I am particularly interested in this.
Hon. Kozak. On Petrocaribe----
Mr. Levin. Anti-corruption and accountability in the wake
of the Petrocaribe ongoing scheme----
Hon. Kozak. I do not know if my colleagues have anything on
that, but no, we have not addressed that particularly. I have
not. But I have been on the job for less than a month.
Mr. Levin. Oh, my goodness, yes.
Hon. Kozak. So people may have.
Mr. Levin. All right, but if you would followup, I would
appreciate that.
Hon. Kozak. I would say though that the broader problem
that you just described is very concerning to us. The first
foreign minister I met with when I took the job the first day
was the foreign minister of Haiti. And what we are trying
intensively to do is get the two elected parts of the Haitian
Government to do what they are supposed to do and work with
each other and form a government and get over it.
Basically, you have got the Executive having named a
government that Parliament will not, cannot, does not seem to
be able to get to taking a vote on whether to approve it or
not. Instead, they are trying to get the President to resign or
some elements are. And that is what has caused the chaos and
the paralyzation.
Our Ambassador there, along with a broad core group of
other countries, is working tirelessly to try to get all the
different sides to sit down, come together and try to find some
kind of an accommodation so that you can get the government----
Mr. Levin. Well, if the government is a kleptocracy and is
stealing hundreds of millions and billions of dollars meant for
the development of the country, I am not sure how effective
that approach will be.
Earlier this month, the Miami Herald reported that human
rights defenders are calling for investigations into police
brutality and misuse of tear gas by the Haitian National
Police.
During these recent protests, Ambassador, has the State
Department raised these serious human rights concerns with the
Haitian Government?
Hon. Kozak. We have raised human rights concerns generally,
but let me say, I mean our experience and I go way back with
Haiti. Twenty-five years ago, I was special negotiator with
Haiti and went through some of the crises then.
One of the few institutions there that has been performing
recently well is the Haitian National Police. It has gone from
being a very small organization that was incapable of policing
the place to now having the capability. Are there abuses
committed from time to time? Yes. We have helped to build the
capacity of the police force; part of that capacity is to do
internal investigations when there are allegations of abuse. So
we are urging them to use those mechanisms to deal with abuses
when they occur. But I would not want to tar the entire
organization since it has actually been doing a pretty good job
of trying to control the unrest without committing----
Mr. Levin. Oh, dear. Well, we will have to talk more about
that in the weeks and honestly, I hope we can because I am
very, very concerned about what has been happening, the
massacre in La Saline, the response after that. I may not share
your sunny view of them.
I just want to get to another aspect of this. You mentioned
25 years. OK. The New York Times piece I mentioned talked about
the United States' troubling history in Haiti. It notes that
during the cold war, American governments supported, albeit at
times grudgingly, the authoritarian governments of Francois and
Jean-Claude Duvalier because of their anti-communist stance.
By the way, I was there in 1980 and again later and I saw
this first hand as a young student.
In January, Haiti broke with precedent and voted with
Washington at the OAS to reject the legitimacy of Nicolas
Maduro. Now let me be clear. I believe Maduro is a dictator. He
has caused the people to suffer. But I also want to be clear on
why our government does what it does or perhaps just as
important in this case what it does not do.
Does the Administration's failure, Ambassador, to more
vocally defend human rights and good governance in Haiti and
the our government has said very little about this and it is a
disaster happening. Does that failure have anything to do with
Haiti's vote at the OAS earlier this year?
Hon. Kozak. I would say not, sir. I have headed the Human
Rights Bureau before I just transferred over to this job, and
in that capacity we have contributed over the years to the
development of many of the human rights groups in Haiti in
developing their capacity and they do a fine job of calling
out----
Mr. Levin. Well, they are crying out for our help, sir.
They are crying out and I respectfully ask you that the
administration take a much more public stand on human rights in
Haiti.
Thanks for your forbearance, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Sires. Thank you. Congressman Yoho.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the time
and I appreciate your efforts. And I am hoping my words come
out as soothing as Mr. Curtis', but maybe not.
Mr. Rooney opened up with our foreign assistance is a
critical foreign diplomacy tool too valuable not to be utilized
properly. And I appreciate those words. And I am a guy that
came up here to get rid of foreign aid, but I found out that
you are not going to get rid of foreign aid. We led the charge
on the BUILD Act which developed the United States
International Development Finance Corporation, but I want it
used properly.
And so as I listen to all three of you and I appreciate
what all three of you do in the agencies you work with, what I
want to do is not grade you, but I want to grade the results.
And I think Mr. Gonzalez, you could hear the frustration on the
other side.
So our foreign aid goes to rule of law, good governance. I
look at Haiti. You were just talking about forming a government
in Haiti. Democracy promotion, infrastructure. Again, I am
going to point to Haiti because Haiti today has less than 20
percent of their population has potable water in the 21st
century in the Western Hemisphere.
Those for anti-corruption, I have got an article that
President Pena of Mexico is accused of taking a $100 million
bribe from El Chapo, the anti-drug production and trafficking
and we have been to Colombia. I was there four or 5 years ago.
They were down to 180, 185 hectares. They are up over 500
hectares. And I know the policies of what happened. And I know
that President Duque is working to reduce that in half.
And so when I look at all this and I look at the amount of
cocaine coming out of Colombia, other Central American
countries, Peru, and 95 percent of the cocaine coming into
America goes through Mexico. Mexico has over 70,000 hectares of
heroin growing. That is not for medicinal use. That is directly
into my country for our citizens.
And so, if we were to grade not you, maybe not the agency
you are in, but the U.S. Government, I guess the results of
what we have done. Because we have spent billions and billions
of dollars. You know, if I look just at the war on drugs, it is
over $1 trillion since Nixon started it.
If we look in Mexico, it is over $2 billion on the War on
Drugs.
And so if are to grade the United States' policies on a
scale A to D are flunking, where would they be?
Hon. Barsa. Congressman, thank you for your question. So
let me start by saying I never would have accepted the
nomination for this position if I did not feel that the mission
of USAID was in furtherance of U.S. national security and
national interest.
So yes, there are anecdotes, certainly I found them
cognizant of where maybe aid did not work as intended, but on
the counter balance, there are stories and anecdotes where
differences can be made. For example, if I may, in Colombia,
USAID has numerous programs to help solidify the peace and deal
with the Venezuelan crisis as well. So just for example,
Colombia has had to deal with five decades of war.
Mr. Yoho. Right.
Hon. Barsa. Chaos at all levels. So an example of the USAID
programs making a difference is we are working with the Duque
Administration for land titling in a place called Ovejas.
Mr. Yoho. Right.
Hon. Barsa. This is a USAID program. So what is happening,
this program here is getting people who did not have title to
land titled to the land. What we found is when people have
title to the land, the recidivism goes down to less than 25
percent. But again, it is an incremental program.
When I was being confirmed_on the Senate side mostly_I
think I was unique in that I said I would be coming back to
Congress with an example of failures because I think it is only
natural, as we have tried different things, that not everything
is going to work. But I committed to them and I committed to
you and members of this committee as well to modify and we have
metrics in place to measure what we do and we think----
Mr. Yoho. How long have those metrics been in place?
Hon. Barsa. Metrics have been in place since the beginning
of our programs, but what I have been since I have arrived here
I have looked at metrics this way.
Mr. Yoho. I am going to cut you off there, because I want
to get some points across. You are all talking about well, and
it is almost like a checklist, well, we do good governance. We
do democracy building. We do this and we check the boxes off.
The rhetoric is there, but the actions are not or the results.
And I look at our policies and yes, we agree with
everything you say and it would be wonderful if they would
follow through, but then I look at what President Trump did. We
are blocking trade until you do something about helping us with
the border. We need tougher action in what we are doing and I
am not saying maybe that is the best thing, but it was
effective.
And I need to hear from you guys and feel free to call my
office, slip something under the door anonymously, as long as
it does not blow up, and just let me know what--and it is
probably our fault. And if you guys would just say if you
knuckleheads in Congress would allow us to do this, we would
get better results. Because what we are doing, I am not seeing
it work, as good as it should for the amount of money put into
it and the amount of effort that you guys put in.
And I appreciate what you said about the Mexican law
enforcement. They are out there every day risking their life,
but you have got corrupt mayors. You have got corrupt--I mean a
mayor cannot get elected hardly to speak out. They get murdered
the next day. Or the president. If the president of the country
of Mexico is that corrupt, how in the heck do you expect
anybody else to be?
So we have got to do something different and if they want
to go to China, I hate to say let them, because they are going
to be coming back and realize that China is going to dictate to
them everything they do. And I think we need to focus on what
we are going to do with the allies that believe the way we
believe and the things that we do and we need to draw that line
in the sand. You are either with us or you are not. You choose.
I am not going to dictate to you what you do. It was more of a
rant.
Anybody got any further comments if the chairman will allow
me?
Mr. Sires. You have 30 seconds.
Mr. Yoho. Thirty seconds, if somebody wants to chime in.
Mr. Glenn, you have your hand up first.
Mr. Glenn. I appreciate the concern. It is one that we all
deal with every day as we do our jobs. How do we make this more
effective? How do we make it work?
Just one piece of data, 49 percent of the cocaine
interdicted in the Western Hemisphere is done by partner
nations. They are capable and able to do that because of the
assistance that we provided. If they were not interdicting that
49 percent, it falls on us to do it and it is expensive.
Mr. Yoho. Oh, it is terrible. And then we have got to look
internally on why are we using so much drugs in this country. I
mean we have got the demand. I appreciate what you all do and I
hope you do not take that too critical. Thank you.
Hon. Kozak. Yes. I would just add, I think you have heard
from all three of us about the results of the programs versus
the political will of our partner governments. You can have
really good programs where all your metrics and evaluations
show that you have created a capability. The cops are capable
of investigating a crime, uncovering corruption, and all of
that. But if you have a senior official who is taking money
from El Chapo or something, you are not going to get the
result.
So it is more of a political than a program problem and I
think you pointed that out too. I mentioned that our President
had said with the three countries in Central America, we are
going to cut this off until we see some political----
Mr. Yoho. And I supported that.
Hon. Kozak. Yes, so that is the kind of----
Mr. Yoho. Mr. Chairman, remember when we were down there on
that first condel? I went out and we were in Mexico and they
were talking about the $2 billion and the DEA and all this
stuff we are doing on drugs and we have been doing it for year
after year after year, but yet, drugs keep coming and coming
and coming.
And I asked, I said, do you guys have the want to end this?
And they said, well, of course we do. Well, the results are not
showing that and I shared a story about my mom wanted me to
play the piano and for 7 years she sewed and got the money for
little Ted to play the piano. Seven years later, I cannot play
the piano. You know why? I did not want to.
Do they want to change? And if they change, they will
change.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Sires. I do not know about little Ted, but--I have some
questions. I have been dealing for years with Colombia and one
of the things that struck me was the amount of growth that
President Santos left behind of the coca growth. And now
President Duque has to deal with what he was left with.
Once it starts, it is very difficult to stop.
Where are we in terms of trying to reduce the amount of
growth in Colombia?
Mr. Glenn. Maybe I can begin and John can finish because
that is kind of how we see this going.
Eradication efforts and interdiction efforts are key at the
front end of this. There has to be a deterrent to the behavior.
The cultivation of coca is too lucrative. There is no
alternative development program. Without there being a stick to
disincentivize it that will be more profitable and replace a
farmer's revenue that they get from coca. So we provide the
stick. We provide the disincentives for the activity.
Because of President Duque and his commitment to
eradication, we are seeing great advancements. They are working
on getting aerial eradication which is a tool. It is not the
solution. It is a tool that they can use to effectively go
about eradicating coca. They have quadrupled the number. I
think they have gotten up to 159, if I am not mistaken, manual
eradication forces. That is a vast increase over what they were
left with when they took over the presidency.
So we are seeing positive developments.
Mr. Sires. Did President Santos drop the ball on this?
Mr. Glenn. I do not want to say that President Santos
dropped the ball. I think he had a different vision. He thought
that peace would bring a commensurate reduction without having
to go with the stick. I think the stick is absolutely
necessary.
Hon. Barsa. Thank you, Congressman. As was stated, USAID
and INL work hand-in-glove throughout the world, particularly
in the Western Hemisphere and in Latin America and in the
Caribbean. So with the advent of peace, the Duque
administration now has more access to areas where they
previously did not have access to, but thanks to the
partnership with INL, there are more secure places for USAID
programming to take place.
I mentioned the land titling that is just one program that
helps with downgrading recidivism for growth of coca. There are
other programs as well. We work with the private sector to
increase growth in the private sector.
I was recently in Colombia. The first event I was at there
with something called the Rural Financial Initiative where it
is private sector banks going out to rural areas, areas
previously controlled by FARC and narcoterrorism and they are
helping campesinos and others with private sector loans and
banking services. What this allows is the growth of
entrepreneurship in these areas, denying spaces for
narcoterrorists to operate, leading to licit economies. So
those are the examples we have in terms of helping make these
areas more secure and we are seeing progress.
Mr. Sires. Mr. Secretary, I have been reading about Chile.
I just cannot believe that just because they raised the tolls
on--they should come to New York--on the train that it has
caused all these problems. But do you see anything else that is
causing that?
Hon. Kozak. I must say, Mr. Chairman, I share your
suspicions that there is more to it. We have seen and we are
still analyzing, but for example, we had some pretty good
reports the other day that there was a lot of external actor
activity on social media stirring up violence with
misinformation and this kind of thing; coming from Russia in
this case.
Mr. Sires. That is what I--I just read an article about
that, that basically this was the most stable country over the
last few years and this is another example of where Russia
tries to undermine our efforts everywhere in the world. They
are not good friends, you know. Their intention is to destroy
this country.
And I really do believe that what is happening in Venezuela
is all part of an invasion without arms, sending four million
people out, trying to to destabilize Colombia, trying to
destabilize others, trying to destabilize the entire region.
And I know that they probably had a hand in it. But I would,
you know, I know that you probably are keeping track, as I am,
of what is happening in Chile and the influence, the external
influence that is happening there. Thank you.
Ranking Member.
Mr. Rooney. Yes, I was going to ask a question, but I think
I would rather just followup on what you raised because it is
so important. We have got these experts here, you know, there
is activities of Hezbollah, like I mentioned, particularly down
by Paraguay; these Russians. We got Iran, rumors of Iran in
Nicaragua. It may be just while you are all here together, just
generally, if we could get your thoughts on how widespread and
what these people who oppose the United States are doing and
any thoughts about what we might do about it in the short run?
Hon. Kozak. I can start. I mean you named most of the bad
actors there. I would add to that Cuba which built up a
capability throughout the region going back decades with
influence in different organizations, unions, student
organizations, journalism, and so on. They were able to turn
that up and down. You have got Hezbollah operating, as you
mentioned, in the area with Paraguay and Argentina. And then
Russia, Russia clearly is involved with Venezuela. They very
visibly sent troops there to try to buck up Maduro. They are
providing the life line in terms of Rosneft marketing oil when
nobody else will buy Venezuelan oil and they are using Rosneft
basically to evade the sanctions and provide effort there. So a
lot of the malign actors are acting against our interests and
against the interests of our partners in the region. We are
working it, we are working it hard, but it is very much a
factor. This is not all home grown. There are a lot of people
playing around in a very bad way.
Mr. Rooney. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Anybody else have a
thought before we wrap up?
Hon. Barsa. Certainly, for USAID programs for democracy and
governance throughout the region, what we are seeing is
certainly the primary malevolent actor in the region is Cuba as
most repressive, so we have our programs supporting democratic
governance, civil society within Cuba. What we are seeing
replicated is the use of the Cuban play book in Venezuela,
Nicaragua, and in other countries as well.
And it is not just the play book, sometimes you will hear
stories and allegations of Cuban actors physically in these
countries as well, so there is no doubt whatsoever that Cuba is
the most--biggest malign actor in the region and seeking to
destabilize democratically elected governments and free
society.
Mr. Glenn. I would just mention quickly that one aspect of
foreign assistance that does not get recognized as much is the
facilitating effect that the money has in terms of helping our
U.S. interagency law enforcement interact with partners in
Latin America to confront these kinds of issues and to be the
premier partner so that it is not Russia, it is not China, when
they look for assistance and when they look for help on
criminal issues in their own country they turn to the FBI. They
turn to the DEA. They turn to ICE or CBP or HSI or the Marshals
or TSA or any number of the partners that we help to
facilitate.
Mr. Rooney. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Well, thank you all for being here today for
this important hearing. Promoting the democratic transition in
Venezuela, addressing the root causes of migration from the
Northern Triangle and confronting the challenge posed by China
will require sustained commitment from the United States to
support our regional allies.
I look forward to continue to work with my colleagues on a
bipartisan basis to deepen our engagement with the Western
Hemisphere. I thank all the witnesses and all the members that
are here today. With that, this hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:49 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
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