[House Hearing, 116 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] EPA ADVISORY COMMITTEES: HOW SCIENCE SHOULD INFORM DECISIONS ======================================================================= JOINT HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS AND OVERSIGHT SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ JULY 16, 2019 __________ Serial No. 116-38 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 37-035PDF WASHINGTON : 2019 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas, Chairwoman ZOE LOFGREN, California FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma, DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois Ranking Member SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon MO BROOKS, Alabama AMI BERA, California, BILL POSEY, Florida Vice Chair RANDY WEBER, Texas CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania BRIAN BABIN, Texas LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas ANDY BIGGS, Arizona HALEY STEVENS, Michigan ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas KENDRA HORN, Oklahoma RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey MICHAEL CLOUD, Texas BRAD SHERMAN, California TROY BALDERSON, Ohio STEVE COHEN, Tennessee PETE OLSON, Texas JERRY McNERNEY, California ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida PAUL TONKO, New York JIM BAIRD, Indiana BILL FOSTER, Illinois JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER, Washington DON BEYER, Virginia JENNIFFER GONZALEZ-COLON, Puerto CHARLIE CRIST, Florida Rico SEAN CASTEN, Illinois VACANCY KATIE HILL, California BEN McADAMS, Utah JENNIFER WEXTON, Virginia ------ Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight HON. MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey, Chairwoman SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina, STEVE COHEN, Tennessee Ranking Member DON BEYER, Virginia ANDY BIGGS, Arizona JENNIFER WEXTON, Virginia MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida ------ Subcommittee on Environment HON. LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas, Chairwoman SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas, Ranking CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania Member PAUL TONKO, New York BRIAN BABIN, Texas CHARLIE CRIST, Florida ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio SEAN CASTEN, Illinois JIM BAIRD, Indiana BEN McADAMS, Utah JENNIFFER GONZALEZ-COLON, Puerto DON BEYER, Virginia Rico C O N T E N T S July 16, 2019 Page Hearing Charter.................................................. 2 Opening Statements Statement by Representative Mikie Sherrill, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.. 8 Written Statement............................................ 9 Statement by Representative Ralph Norman, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.. 10 Written Statement............................................ 12 Statement by Representative Lizzie Fletcher, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...................... 13 Written Statement............................................ 14 Statement by Representative Roger Marshall, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...................... 15 Written Statement............................................ 17 Statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Chairwoman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives................................................ 18 Written statement............................................ 19 Witnesses: Mr. J. Alfredo Gomez, Director, Natural Resources and Environment, U.S. Government Accountability Office Oral Statement............................................... 20 Written Statement............................................ 22 Dr. Thomas A. Burke, Jacob I. and Irene B. Fabrikant Professor and Chair in Health Risk and Society, Bloomberg School of Public Health, Johns Hopkins University Oral Statement............................................... 34 Written Statement............................................ 36 Dr. Deborah Swackhamer, Professor Emerita, Humphrey School of Public Affairs, University of Minnesota Oral Statement............................................... 44 Written Statement............................................ 46 Dr. Jonathan Samet, Dean, Colorado School of Public Health Oral Statement............................................... 51 Written Statement............................................ 53 Discussion....................................................... 84 Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions Mr. J. Alfredo Gomez, Director, Natural Resources and Environment, U.S. Government Accountability Office............. 102 Dr. Thomas A. Burke, Jacob I. and Irene B. Fabrikant Professor and Chair in Health Risk and Society, Bloomberg School of Public Health, Johns Hopkins University........................ 104 Dr. Deborah Swackhamer, Professor Emerita, Humphrey School of Public Affairs, University of Minnesota........................ 108 Dr. Jonathan Samet, Dean, Colorado School of Public Health....... 113 EPA ADVISORY COMMITTEES: HOW SCIENCE SHOULD INFORM DECISIONS ---------- TUESDAY, JULY 16, 2019 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight, joint with the Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, Washington, D.C. The Subcommittees met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m., in room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Mikie Sherrill [Chairwoman of the Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight] presiding. [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Sherrill. This hearing will come to order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recess at any time. Good afternoon, and welcome to today's joint hearing of the Investigations and Oversight and Environment Subcommittees. I'm pleased to be here with my colleagues, Ranking Member Norman, Chair Fletcher, and Ranking Member Marshall. We're here today to discuss the vital role that advisory committees play in ensuring the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA's) actions are informed, and supported by the best available science. Advisory committees have been, and continue to be, involved in issues of great importance to the advancement of knowledge, and the development of national policies and regulations. The EPA currently has 22 Federal advisory committees that provide advice to the EPA Administrator and other senior leaders on a variety of environmental and health issues. These committees consist of subject-matter experts who bring a range of skills and insight. The committee can include scientists, economists, health officials, and business leaders. Federal law, through the Federal Advisory Committee Act, or FACA, formalizes a process to ensure advice is solicited in an objective and transparent manner, and it requires each committee to be balanced in terms of the points of view and the functions to be performed. It's essential that these committees aid the EPA in fulfilling its mandate to protect human health and the environment. Unfortunately, over the course of the last 2-1/2 years we've seen a multi-pronged attack on these committees. In 2017, former Administrator Pruitt barred EPA grant holders, some of the most prominent researchers in their fields, from serving on advisory committees. Administrator Pruitt claimed this was to prevent conflicts of interest, but he did not prohibit people who are paid by the industries that the EPA regulates, an arguably greater conflict of interest, from serving on advisory committees. Administrator Pruitt also broke precedent and declined to renew the memberships of advisory committee members whose terms had not expired, flushing out years of experience, and bringing in a number of climate deniers and unqualified individuals, which weakens the quality and integrity of the advice the advisory committee offers. The attack on advisory committees at the EPA continued with the Administration's manipulations of the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee, or the CASAC. CASAC was established by Congress on a bipartisan basis as part of the 1977 amendments to the Clean Air Act. The architects of those amendments, Ed Muskie of Maine and Howard Baker of Tennessee, recognized a generation ago how important independent science advice would be to informing EPA's air quality programs. And, as I see it, healthy air to breathe remains a bipartisan concern for Congress. Unfortunately, last October Administrator Wheeler dismissed the Particulate Matter Review Panel of CASAC. This specialized 24-member panel was instituted under CASAC's authority to ensure that research on particulate matter, a known health hazard, was adequately reviewed before setting an updated health standard. Administrator Wheeler instead tasked the seven member CASAC with reviewing the science, even though it lacks an epidemiologist, among other vital specialties. In April, CASAC wrote a letter to Administrator Wheeler stating that they are ill equipped to review the draft assessment of particulate matter (PM), and requesting that he reinstate the expert sub-panel. However, the Administrator still has not acknowledged this request, and on Monday the EPA informed committee staff that there still is not a plan in place to respond to CASAC's letter, let alone to re-establish the expert panel. It's concerning that EPA intends to develop health standards based on the advice of a committee that itself admits it's underqualified to review the relevant science. This month the Government Accountability Office (GAO) issued a report outlining another mode of attack on advisory committees--the appointment process. GAO found that for two committees, the EPA Science Advisory Board and CASAC, EPA disregarded its own procedures for evaluating advisory committee candidates, and failed to assess nominees' financial disclosure reports. This undermines the transparency and integrity we expect from these important expert panels, and I look forward to hearing more about these findings from our GAO witness here today, Mr. Gomez. The attack on science extends beyond the EPA. On June 14 the White House released an executive order requiring agencies to cut one-third of the FACA committees instituted under their purview. We know this won't save the government any money because it's an experiment that we have tried before. When a similar order was issued in the 1990s by President Clinton's Administration, it actually drove costs up by 3 percent. It appears that this order is an attempt to hinder agencies' ability to solicit objective, transparent, expert advice. So, I'm pleased to welcome our witnesses appearing here today. Before us we have individuals with a wealth of experience on EPA's vital scientific advisory committees, and I look forward to hearing about how these committees inform EPA's important work, and we can ensure the Agency is best serving the American people. So thank you for your willingness to appear before our Subcommittee, and for this hearing. [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Sherrill follows:] Good morning, and welcome to today's joint hearing of the Investigations and Oversight and Environment Subcommittees. I'm pleased to be here with my colleagues, Ranking Member Norman, Chair Fletcher, and Ranking Member Marshall. We're here today to discuss the vital role that advisory committees play in ensuring EPA's actions are informed and supported by the best available science. Advisory committees have been and continue to be involved in issues of great importance to the advancement of knowledge and the development of national policies and regulations. The EPA currently has 22 Federal advisory committees that provide advice to the EPA administrator and other senior leaders on a variety of environmental and health issues. These committees consist of subject matter experts who bring a range of skills and insight. The committee can include scientists, economists, health officials, and business leaders. Federal law, through the Federal Advisory Committee Act, or FACA, formalizes a process to ensure advice is solicited in an objective and transparent manner, and it requires each committee to be balanced in terms of the points of view and the functions to be performed. It is essential that these committees aid EPA in fulfilling its mandate to protect human health and the environment. Unfortunately, over the course of the last two and a half years, we have seen a multi-pronged attack on these committees. In 2017, former Administrator Pruitt barred EPA grant holders - some of the most prominent researchers in their fields - from serving on advisory committees. Administrator Pruitt claimed this was to prevent conflicts of interest, but he did not prohibit people who are paid by the industries that EPA regulates - an arguably greater conflict of interest - from serving on advisory committees. Administrator Pruitt also broke precedent and declined to renew the memberships of advisory committee members whose terms had not expired, flushing out years of experience and bringing in a number of climate deniers and unqualified individuals, which weakens the quality and integrity of the advice the advisory committee offers. The attack on advisory committees at the EPA continued with the Administration's manipulations of the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee, or CASAC. CASAC was established by Congress on a bipartisan basis as part of the 1977 amendments to the Clean Air Act. The architects of those amendments - Ed Muskie of Maine and Howard Baker of Tennessee - recognized a generation ago how important independent science advice would be to informing EPA's air quality programs. And as I see it, healthy air to breathe remains a bipartisan concern for Congress. Unfortunately, last October, Administrator Wheeler dismissed the Particulate Matter Review Panel of CASAC. This specialized 24-member panel was instituted under CASAC's authority to ensure that research on particulate matter - a known health hazard - was adequately reviewed before setting an updated health standard. Administrator Wheeler instead tasked the seven-member CASAC with reviewing the science, even though it lacks an epidemiologist, among other vital specialties. In April, CASAC wrote a letter to Administrator Wheeler, stating that they are ill-equipped to review the draft assessment of particulate matter and requesting that he reinstate the expert subpanel. However, the Administrator still has not acknowledged this request. On Monday, EPA informed Committee staff that there still is not a plan in place to respond to CASAC's letter, let alone to reestablish the expert panel. It is concerning that EPA intends to develop health standards based on the advice of a committee that admits it is unqualified to review the relevant science. This month, the Government Accountability Office issued a report outlining another mode of attack on advisory committees - the appointment process. GAO found that for two committees, the EPA Science Advisory Board and CASAC, EPA disregarded its own procedures for evaluating advisory committee candidates and failed to assess nominees' financial disclosure reports. This undermines the transparency and integrity we expect from these important expert panels. I look forward to hearing more about these findings from our GAO witness today, Mr. Gomez. The attack on science extends beyond EPA. On June 14, the White House released an executive order requiring agencies to cut one third of the FACA committees instituted under their purview. We know this won't save the government any money, because this is an experiment we have tried before. When a similar order was issued in the nineties by President Clinton's administration, it actually drove costs up by 3 percent. It appears that this order is an attempt to hinder agencies' ability to solicit objective, transparent, expert advice. I'm pleased to welcome our witnesses appearing here today. Before us we have individuals with a wealth of experience on EPA's vital scientific advisory committees. I look forward to hearing about how these committees inform EPA's important work, and we can ensure the Agency is best serving the American people. Thank you for your willingness to appear before our Subcommittees for this hearing. Chairwoman Sherrill. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Norman for an opening statement. Mr. Norman. Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill, and Chairwoman Fletcher, for convening this hearing. We're here today to discuss the current state of the Federal advisory committees, specifically at the EPA, and the appointment process for these committees. Unfortunately, this hearing is less of a discussion, rather than just another example of partisan politics, unfortunately. By limiting the scope of this hearing specifically to the EPA, the majority has prevented us from conducting oversight of other agencies within our jurisdiction. But even the narrow focus of the EPA wasn't enough. While the Science Advisory Board, the SAB, the Board of Scientific Counselors, the BOSC, and the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committees, the CASAC, are all represented here today, they seem to be the only ones that we'll be discussing. Along with EPA's other advisory committees, the SAB and the CASAC build scientific consensus, and provide input and recommendations from the EPA's diverse stakeholders. While our witnesses do valuable work for their panels, they only represent three of EPA's 22 committees. That means, in a hearing about EPA's advisory committees, 19 committees are unrepresented, as well as every other agency's Federal advisory committees. Why are we limiting this hearing, when so many more panels fall within the Science Committee's jurisdictions? My colleagues on the other side of the aisle seem to be using this opportunity as a thinly veiled cover to simply attack the EPA and this Administration's effort to improve the selection process. Today we'll hear about how academics are supposedly being kicked off these committees, and the critical steps were overlooked in the appointment process. But, upon further examination of the data, including data produced by the GAO in their report, I believe this Committee needs to carefully examine the facts around these misleading assumptions. The purpose of the Federal Advisory Committee Act, FACA, is clear. Committees should be fairly balance in expertise and points of view. Yet, in 2017, 77 percent of SAB members represented academia. Having over three-fourths of a panel affiliated with one stakeholder group doesn't strike me as being balanced. It is clear to me that EPA's leadership followed the direction of the law as they worked to restore balance to this critical committee. We will also discuss GAO's findings that 20 members of SAB and CASAC were appointed without EPA staff providing a membership grid with recommendations. While this step is detailed in EPA's internal policy guidelines, no law was broken, and no mismanagement occurred. Instead, senior officials at the EPA replaced this step with a more rigorous process, where the Administrator was thoroughly briefed on the qualification of multiple candidates. It is the Administrator's job to set guidance, and ensure the Agency can achieve its goals. We should be applauding him for taking the time to examine each candidate, and, in an effort to do better, the appointment process. I also want to commend the Science Advisory Board Staff Office, the SABSO, for their diligent work to ensure the best candidates are chosen to serve on the FACs. Sadly, these individuals are not present as we evaluate whether the new review process is effective. The rushed nature of this hearing is disappointing, yet not surprising to me. Members of this Committee were given limited time to review the GAO's report, which was released 24 hours ago. I want to thank Mr. Gomez for being here to walk us through it, but I know we could've had a more productive discussion if we all had time to read it and understand it. I'm sure we'll have another hearing on President Trump's executive order on Federal advisory committees, so why we rushed to hold this narrow Subcommittee hearing is beyond me, when, in just a week or two, we would've had more knowledge, could involve more members, and have a broader debate. The only answer I came to is that the majority would've missed the chance to take another partisan swing at the Trump Administration. Moving forward, I hope we can take a more holistic approach, and allow Members the time to review the data before jumping to skewed conclusions. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I yield back the balance of my time. [The prepared statement of Mr. Norman follows:] Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill and Chairwoman Fletcher, for convening this hearing. We are here today to discuss the current state of Federal advisory committees, specifically at the EPA, and the appointment process for these committees. Unfortunately, this hearing is less of a discussion, rather just another example of partisan politics. By limiting the scope of this hearing ``specifically'' to the EPA, the majority has prevented us from conducting oversight of other agencies within our jurisdiction. But even the narrow focus on the EPA wasn't enough. While the Science Advisory Board (SAB), the Board of Scientific Counselors (BOSC), and the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee (CASAC) are all represented here today, they seem to be the only ones we'll be discussing. Along with EPA's other advisory committees, the SAB and CASAC build scientific consensus and provide input and recommendations from EPA's diverse stakeholders. While our witnesses do valuable work for their panels, they only represent three of EPA's 22 committees. That means - in a hearing about EPA's advisory committees - 19 committees are unrepresented, as well as every other agencies' Federal Advisory Committees Why are we limiting this hearing when so many more panels fall within the Science Committee's jurisdiction? My colleagues on the other side of the aisle seem to be using this opportunity as a thinly veiled cover to simply attack the EPA and this Administration's effort to improve the selection process. Today, we'll hear about how academics are supposedly being kicked off these committees and that critical steps were overlooked in the appointment process. But upon further examination of the data, including data provided by GAO in their report, I believe this Committee needs to carefully examine the facts around these misleading assumptions. The purpose of the Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA) is clear: committees should be fairly balanced in expertise and points of view. Yet, in 2017, 77% of S-A-B members represented academia. Having over three-fourths of a panel affiliated with one stakeholder group doesn't strike me as balanced. It is clear to me that EPA leadership followed the direction of the law as they worked to restore balance to this critical committee. We'll also discuss GAO's finding that 20 members of SAB and CASAC were appointed without EPA staff providing a membership grid with recommendations. While this step is detailed in EPA's internal policy guidelines, no law was broken and no mismanagement occurred. Instead, senior officials at the EPA replaced this step with a more rigorous process, where the Administrator was thoroughly briefed on the qualifications of multiple candidates. It is the Administrator's job to set guidance and ensure the agency can achieve its goals. We should be applauding him for taking the time to examine each candidate in an effort to better the appointment process. I also want to commend the Science Advisory Board Staff Office (SABSO), for their diligent work to ensure the best candidates are chosen to serve on FACs. Sadly, these individuals are not present as we evaluate whether the new review process is effective. The rushed nature of this hearing is disappointing, yet not surprising, to me. Members of this Committee were given limited time to review GAO's report, which was released just 24 hours ago. I thank Mr. Gomez for being here to walk us through it, but I know we could have had a more productive discussion if we all had time to read it and understand it. I'm sure we will have another hearing on President Trump's Executive Order on Federal Advisory Committees. So why we rushed to hold this narrow subcommittee hearing is beyond me, when in just a week or two, we would have more knowledge, could involve more members, and have a broader debate? The only answer I came to is that the majority would have missed the chance to take another partisan swing at this Administration. Moving forward, I hope that we can take a more holistic approach and allow members the time to review the data before jumping to skewed conclusions. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I yield back the balance of my time. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And the Chair now recognizes the Chair for the Subcommittee on the Environment, Mrs. Fletcher, for an opening statement. Chairwoman Fletcher. Good afternoon. I would like to join Chairwoman Sherrill in welcoming all of our witnesses to today's hearing on advisory committees at the EPA. The EPA is, at its core, a public health agency. It works to protect all Americans, especially the vulnerable populations from polluted air, water, and soil. The EPA promulgates environmental standards and protections that are informed by the most cutting-edge science. Much of this science is conducted at the Agency by dedicated career scientists and engineers, and through extramural research grants funded by the EPA. However, a critical component to ensuring the best science is utilized by the Agency is through expert advisory committees and boards that provide external advice and recommendations on a variety of topics. Advisory committees have long played a vital role in the Federal Government to supplement the knowledge of Federal agencies by providing additional expertise. The advisory committee process is an opportunity for public engagement and Federal decisionmaking, as meetings are generally accessible to the public. As Chairwoman Sherrill discussed, Congress, understanding the need for independent scientific advice to inform the EPA Administrator's regulatory decisionmaking, established the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee, or CASAC, and the EPA Science Advisory Board, SAB. These committees allow EPA to broaden its access to additional scientific expertise not contained within the Agency itself. Scientific advisory committees at the EPA provide advice and recommendations that are used to inform research, regulation standards, compliance, and enforcement functions of the Agency. The CASAC plays a critical role in reviewing the National Ambient Air Quality Standards, or NAAQS, by calling upon specialized expertise to ensure that the most robust and relevant science is used to protect the air that we breathe. The Science Advisory Board, by far the largest advisory committee at the EPA, provides feedback on science throughout the Agency's decisionmaking process, while the Board of Scientific Counselors, or BOSC, informs the EPA's science and research priorities. Appointment to these and other advisory boards at the EPA has historically been considered a great honor, a recognition of the member's preeminence and expertise in the field. We are fortunate to have three such experts who have served as members and chairs of CASAC, SAB, and the BOSC as part of our distinguished witness panel today. My colleague expressed frustration that other committees are not present at this hearing, and I would like to note that the minority, as always, was given an opportunity to invite whomever they saw fit, and declined. Further, I believe this panel is more than qualified to address the matter at hand. Mr. Gomez has presented the facts on the grounds from his thorough audit of the Agency, and our three other witnesses bring years of experience of public service, both within and outside the Agency. I do anticipate that there will be future hearings on these issues, and encourage the minority to take all future opportunities to invite witnesses to these important hearings. Given the clear role the advisory committees play in helping the EPA meet its mission, the finding of the GAO's report yesterday raises serious concerns, and identified problems with the three committees that are before us today. The deficiencies in the appointment process found for the SAB and CASAC are very troubling, as these committees are responsible for reviewing the science that underpins many Agency decisions that directly impact public health. According to the Federal Advisory Committee Act, members of these boards should be clear of conflicts of interest, and meet the highest ethical standards before joining advisory committees. EPA's inconsistent compliance with its own ethics policy related to advisory committee members raises doubts about the Agency's actions. The American people should feel confident that all our agencies, including and especially the EPA, are operating in their best interest--protecting them, not sidelining transparency as a means to an end. The President's recent executive order, purportedly to improve Federal advisory committees, does not seem to have a basis for requiring the termination of one-third of Agency advisory committees, and instituting a limit of committees across the Federal Government. I want to commend Chairwoman Johnson for asking the agencies within this Committee's jurisdiction how they plan on implementing this order so we can try to ensure that valuable scientific expertise is not indiscriminately cut because of arbitrary limits. The EPA is responsible for protecting public and environmental health through the application of strong science to environmental and regulatory decisions throughout the Agency. Baseless attempts to modify, change, and, in some cases, undermine the Agency's established process to accomplish this goal should be of concern to us all. I look forward to discussing the troubling findings of this GAO report, as well as hearing from our other distinguished witnesses, who have served on multiple advisory committees and the EPA, how these findings will impact the future of science at the Agency. With that, I yield back. [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Fletcher follows:] Good afternoon. I would like to join Chairwoman Sherrill in welcoming all of our witnesses to today's hearing on advisory committees at the EPA. The EPA is at its core a public health agency. It works to protect all Americans, especially the most vulnerable populations, from polluted air, water, and soil. The EPA promulgates environmental standards and protections that are informed by the most cutting-edge science. Much of this science is conducted at the Agency by dedicated career scientists and engineers, and through extramural research grants funded by the EPA. However, a critical component to ensuring the best science is utilized by the Agency is through expert advisory committees and boards that provide external advice and recommendations on a variety of topics. Advisory committees have long played a vital role in the Federal Government to supplement the knowledge of Federal agencies by providing additional expertise. The advisory committee process is an opportunity for public engagement in Federal decision-making, as meetings are generally accessible to the public. Congress, understanding the need for independent scientific advice to inform the EPA Administrator's regulatory decision making, established the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee, or CASAC, and the EPA Science Advisory Board, or SAB. These committees allow EPA to broaden its access to additional scientific expertise not contained within the Agency itself. Scientific advisory committees at the EPA provide advice and recommendations that are used to inform research, regulations, standards, compliance, and enforcement functions of the Agency. The CASAC plays a critical role in reviewing the National Ambient Air Quality Standards, or NAAQS by calling upon specialized expertise to ensure that the most robust and relevant science is used to protect the air we breath. The Science Advisory Board, by far the largest advisory committee at the EPA, provides feedback on science throughout the Agency's decision-making process, while the Board of Scientific Counselors, or BOSC, informs the EPA's science and research priorities. Appointment to these, and other, advisory boards at the EPA has historically been considered a great honor; a recognition of the member's preeminence and expertise in the field. We are very fortunate to have three such experts who have served as members and Chairs of the CASAC, SAB, and the BOSC, as part of our distinguished witness panel today. Given the clear role advisory committees play in helping EPA meet its mission, the findings of the GAO's report released yesterday raise serious concerns. The deficiencies in the appointment process found for the SAB and CASAC are very troubling as these committees are responsible for reviewing the science that underpins many Agency decisions that directly impact public health. According to the Federal Advisory Committee Act, members of these boards should be clear of conflicts of interest and meet the highest ethical standards before joining advisory committees. EPA's inconsistent compliance with its own ethics policy related to advisory committee members raises doubts about the Agency's actions. The American people should feel confident that all our agencies, including and especially the EPA are operating in their best interest, protecting them - not sidelining transparency as a means to an end. The President's recent Executive Order purportedly ``improve'' Federal advisory committees does not seem to a have a basis for requiring the termination of one-third of Agency advisory committees and instituting a limit of committees across the Federal Government. I want to commend Chairwoman Johnson for asking the agencies within this Committee's jurisdiction how they plan on implementing this Order so that we can try to ensure that valuable scientific expertise is not indiscriminately cut because of arbitrary limits. The EPA is responsible for protecting public and environmental health through the application of strong science to environmental and regulatory decisions throughout the Agency. Baseless attempts to modify, change, and in some cases undermine, the Agency's established processes to accomplish this goal should be of concern to us all. I look forward to discussing the troubling findings of this GAO report, as well as hearing from our other distinguished witnesses who have served on multiple advisory committees at the EPA, how these findings will impact the future of science at the Agency. And with that I yield back the balance of my time. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes the Ranking Member for the Subcommittee on Environment, Mr. Marshall, for an opening statement. Mr. Marshall. Thank you so much, Chairwoman Sherrill, and Ranking Member Norman, for holding this hearing. First and foremost, I'd like to address what seems to be the elephant in the room, President Trump's executive order on Federal advisory committees. While not explicitly stated as part of the purpose of this hearing, I think we can all see the majority's intention is to make this hearing a chance for former EPA advisory members to defend the charter of their committee. As Mr. Norman mentioned, we all agree EPA's major advisory committees, these mandatory committees, especially the Science Advisory Board, and Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee, play a strategic role in carrying out the mission to protect human health and the environment. No one's proposing we eliminate those mandatory panels, or the critical input they provide to the Agency. But the President's executive order isn't focused on these, or any other committee authorized by Congress. It doesn't even direct agencies to keep or terminate any particular committee. It's focused on halting wasteful spending, and improving the quality of our advisory committees governmentwide. President Trump's executive orders direct each agency to review their advisory committees, eliminate one-third of their discretionary advisory committees, and caps the total number of discretionary committees at 350 across the Federal Government. From what I've seen in the media, people take this to mean President Trump is trying to eliminate hundreds of advisory committees because he doesn't value the science they provide. Nothing could be further from the truth. The executive order clearly states that one-third of discretionary advisory committees should be eliminated. Discretionary advisory committees are those committees created by an agency head at some point, not through law or executive order. Based on the text of the executive order, EPA would need to eliminate just two committees to comply. Next let's address the impact of capping the total number of discretionary committees at 350. Currently there are over 1,000 Federal advisory committees. Again, let's look at those actual words in the executive order, which states that the cap applies only to discretionary committees. At present there are just over 400 discretionary committees. Eliminating 50 committees, especially as there has not been a systemic review in 26 years, does not seem like a daunting challenge to me. I think it's important to note that President Reagan issued a memorandum similarly to this in 1985, and President Clinton issued an executive order in 1993 requiring the exact same one- third elimination as President Trump. So, historically, ensuring we are maximizing the use of our Federal advisory committees has been a bipartisan effort. It's critical that we review advisory committees to ensure their alignment with the current needs and mission of this Agency. Think about how science can change in just a few years: 26 years ago the first smartphone was still a decade away from introduction, and now it seems that everyone is able to use one. This executive order will help Federal agencies re-evaluate their needs, and focus on the future of science, not the needs of the past. The final issue to highlight is what appears to be a narrow and limiting scope of this hearing. The Science Committee has jurisdiction over $42 billion in Federal research and development, including numerous agencies with Federal advisory committees. If my colleagues in the majority were genuine about examining how science informs decisions at Federal agencies, we'd be hearing from representatives from other agencies like NASA, Department of Energy, and the National Science Foundation. Each of these have their own advisory committees with unique needs and challenges. Narrowing the focus on this hearing to just EPA, which only has 2 percent of the Federal advisory committees, is puzzling. I'd also like to mention that the two EPA committees we will talk about the most today, SAB and CASAC, are authorized by statute, and therefore ineligible to be eliminated by the EPA Administrator under the executive order. I believe there is a need to conduct oversight of the 1,000 advisory committees currently in operation, as well as the $400 million these committees cost the taxpayer each year. That's $400,000 per committee, by my math. I encourage my colleagues in the majority work with us to conduct meaningful oversight of these committees, and the best way to manage them efficiently and effectively. Instead, we find ourselves here today, focused on the smallest fraction of our Committee's jurisdiction. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I yield back. [The prepared statement of Mr. Marshall follows:] Thank you for holding this hearing, Chairwoman Sherrill and Ranking Member Norman. First and foremost, I'd like to address what seems to be the elephant in the room: President Trump's Executive Order on Federal Advisory Committees. While not explicitly stated as part of the purpose for this hearing, I think we can all see the majority's intention is to make this hearing a chance for former EPA advisory members to defend the charter of their committee. As Mr. Norman mentioned, we all agree EPA's major advisory committees, especially the Science Advisory Board (SAB) and Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee (CASAC), play a strategic role in carrying out the mission to protect human health and the environment. No one is proposing we eliminate those panels or the critical input they provide to the Agency. But the President's Executive Order isn't focused on those, or any other committee authorized by Congress. It doesn't even direct agencies to keep or terminate any particular committee. It is focused on halting wasteful spending and improving the quality of our advisory committees government-wide. President Trump's Executive Order directs each agency to review their advisory committees, eliminate one-third of their discretionary advisory committees, and caps the total number of discretionary committees at 350 across the Federal Government. From what I've seen in the media, people take this to mean President Trump is trying to eliminate hundreds of advisory committees because he doesn't value the science they provide. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Executive Order clearly states that one-third of discretionary advisory committees should be eliminated. Discretionary advisory committees are those committees created by an agency head at some point, not through law or executive order. Based on the text of the Executive Order, EPA would need to eliminate just two committees to comply. Next let's address the impact of capping the total number of discretionary committees at 350. Currently, there are just over 1,000 Federal Advisory Committees. Again, let's look at the actual words in the Executive Order, which state that the cap applies only to discretionary committees. At present, there are just over 400 discretionary committees. Eliminating 50 committees - especially after there has not been a systematic review in 26 years - does not seem like a daunting challenge to me. I think it's important to note that President Reagan issued a memorandum similar to this in 1985, and President Clinton issued an executive order in 1993 requiring the exact same one- third elimination as President Trump. So historically, ensuring we are maximizing the use of our Federal Advisory Committees has been a bipartisan effort. It is critical that we review advisory committees to ensure their alignment with the current needs and mission of each agency. Think of how science can change in just a few years. Twenty-six years ago, the first smartphone was still a decade away from introduction - and now everyone seems to always be on one. This executive order will help Federal agencies reevaluate their needs and focus on the future of science, not the needs of the past. The final issue I'd like to highlight is what appears to be a narrow and limiting scope of this hearing. The Science Committee has jurisdiction over $42 billion in Federal research and development, including numerous agencies with Federal advisory committees. If my colleagues in the majority were genuine about examining how science informs decisions at Federal agencies, we would be hearing from representatives from other agencies like NASA, the Department of Energy, and the National Science Foundation. Each of these has its own advisory committees with unique needs and challenges. Narrowing the focus of this hearing to just the EPA, which only has 2% of all Federal Advisory Committees, is puzzling to me. I'd also like to mention that the two EPA committees we will talk about the most today, SAB and CASAC, are authorized by statute and therefore ineligible to be eliminated by the EPA Administrator under the Executive Order. I believe there is a need to conduct oversight of the 1,000 advisory committees currently in operation, as well as the $400 million these committees cost the taxpayer each year. I encourage my colleagues in the majority to work with us to conduct meaningful oversight of these committees and the best way to manage them efficiently and effectively. Instead, we find ourselves here today, focused on the smallest fraction of our Committee's jurisdiction. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And we are honored today to have the Full Committee Chairwoman, Ms. Johnson, with us today. The Chair now recognizes the Chairwoman for an opening statement. Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much, and let me thank both Chairs, and both Ranking Members. I'd like to join you also in welcoming our witnesses this afternoon. In fact, we have a panel full of familiar faces today. Every member of our distinguished panel has offered their expertise to this Committee in the past, and I'm honored to welcome some of you back, and some of the most esteemed voices in environmental and health science in the Nation. Thanks to each of you for your tireless work, both in academia and on various EPA advisory committees. And thanks to you, Mr. Gomez of the GAO, for ensuring these important committees operate effectively. Science advisory committees are crucial to ensuring the best science informs all aspects of decisionmaking at the Environmental Protection Agency. They provide the expertise that allows us to be sure we are protecting the health of Americans and our environment to the best of our ability. It has been troubling to observe these important committees being dismantled and manipulated over the past 2-1/2 years. The most recent blow to advisory committees was an executive order issued by the President in June. This order directed agencies to cut one-third of FACA committees not established by Congress or the President. It also caps the total number of FACA committees at 350 across the Federal Government. Such directives are clumsy at best, and malicious at worst. There's no reason to presume that one-third of the committees have exhausted their usefulness. A cap on committees serves only to create a barrier for agencies to solicit expert advice in a transparent manner. Last week, I did send a letter to science agencies inquiring about the metrics they will use to determine which committees to cut. I look forward to reviewing these responses. I hope that the White House will reconsider this harmful order, which serves only to decrease the transparency of the advice solicited by agencies across the government. I would be remiss not to mention the circumstances under which Dr. Swackhamer joined us the last time she testified before this Committee. Just as today, Dr. Swackhamer testified in her capacity as an independent scientist back in 2017. However, days before the hearing, she was contacted by an EPA political official, who had somehow obtained a copy of her prepared remarks, and encouraged her to edit her testimony in a manner I consider to be misleading. I hope Dr. Swackhamer has not experienced similar interference in her preparation to join us here today. Unfortunately, we have yet to receive a final report on this matter from the EPA Inspector General. I look forward to hearing from all of you. Transparency and the application of credible science is a cornerstone of environmental and public health protections. I look forward to working with my colleagues, and today's distinguished witnesses, to ensuring that EPA continues to value these principles. Thank you, and I yield back to Congresswoman Sherrill. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Johnson follows:] Thank you to both our Chairs, and I would like to join you in welcoming our witnesses this afternoon. In fact, we have a panel full of familiar faces today - every member of our distinguished panel has offered their expertise to this Committee in the past, and I'm honored to welcome back some of the most esteemed voices in environmental and health science in the nation. Thank you to each of you for your tireless work both in academia and on various EPA advisory committees. And thank you to Mr. Gomez of the GAO for ensuring these important committees operate effectively. Science advisory committees are crucial to ensuring the best science informs all aspects of decision making at the Environmental Protection Agency. They provide the expertise that allows us to be sure we are protecting the health of Americans and our environment to the best of our ability. It has been troubling to observe these important committees being dismantled and manipulated over the past two and a half years. The most recent blow to advisory committees was the Executive Order issued by the President in June. This order directed agencies to cut one third of FACA committees not established by Congress or the President. It also caps the total number of FACA committees at 350 across the Federal Government. Such directives are clumsy at best and malicious at worst - there is no reason to presume that one third of committees have exhausted their usefulness. A cap on committees serves only to create a barrier for Agencies to solicit expert advice in a transparent manner. Last week, I sent a letter to science agencies inquiring about the metrics they will use to determine which committees to cut. I look forward to reviewing their responses. I hope the White House will reconsider this harmful order which serves only to decrease the transparency of the advice solicited by agencies across the government. I would be remiss not to mention the circumstances under which Dr. Swackhamer joined us the last time she testified before the Committee. Just as today, Dr. Swackhamer testified in her capacity as an independent scientist back in 2017. However, days before the hearing, she was contacted by an EPA political official who had somehow obtained a copy of her prepared remarks and encouraged her to edit her testimony in a manner I consider to be misleading. I hope Dr. Swackhamer has not experienced similar interference in her preparation to join us here today. Unfortunately, we have yet to receive a final report on this matter from the EPA Inspector General. I look forward to hearing from them. Transparency and the application of credible science is a cornerstone of environmental and public health protections. I look forward to working with my colleagues, and today's distinguished witnesses, to ensuring the EPA continues to value these principles. Thank you, and I yield back to Chairwoman Sherrill. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And if there are Members who wish to submit additional opening statements, your statements will be added to the record at this point. At this time I would like to introduce our witnesses. Mr. Alfredo Gomez is the Director of Natural Resources and Environment at the U.S. Government Accountability Office. His office authored the recently released GAO report, ``EPA Advisory Committees: Improvements Needed For the Member Appointment Process,'' which we will be discussing today. Dr. Thomas Burke is a professor, and the Chair in Health Risk and Society at the Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins University. Prior to his current position, Dr. Burke served as the EPA Science Advisory and Deputy Assistant Administrator for Research and Development from January 2015 to January 2017. He also served on EPA's Science Advisory Board, and is a founding member of the Board of Scientific Counselors. Next we have Dr. Deborah Swackhamer. Dr. Swackhamer is a Professor Emerita at the University of Minnesota's Humphrey School of Public Affairs. Previously, she served in a number of scientific advisory positions, including Chair of the EPA Science Advisory Board from 2008 to 2012, and Chair of the Board of Science Counselors from 2015 to 2017. And, last, we have Dr. Jonathan Samet, the Dean of the Colorado School of Public Health. Dr. Samet served as Chair of the EPA Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee from 2008 to 2012. And we will start with Mr. Gomez. TESTIMONY OF J. ALFREDO GOMEZ, DIRECTOR, NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENT, U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE Mr. Gomez. Chairwomen Sherrill and Fletcher, Ranking Members Norman and Marshall, and Members of the Subcommittee, good afternoon. I'm pleased to be here. My statement today summarizes key findings from our report on the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's process for appointing members to the Federal advisory committees it manages under the Federal Advisory Committee Act. These committees play an important role at EPA by providing advice that helps the Agency develop regulations, accredit laboratories, and manage research programs, among other activities. Our report describes EPA's established process for appointing members to serve on EPA advisory committees. It evaluates the extent to which EPA followed its process for Fiscal Year 2017 through March 2018, and describes how, if at all, EPA's advisory committees changed after January 2017. As it's been noted, at the time of our report EPA had 22 advisory committees, and the way we conducted our work, we reviewed relevant Federal laws, regulations, and guidance, and reviewed all EPA appointment documentation for 17 of the 22 committees that appointed members for Fiscal Years 2017 through March 2018. With regards to the first finding, EPA has established--has an established process for appointing advisory committee members that involves three main phases: Soliciting nominations, evaluating candidates, and obtaining approvals from relevant EPA offices before the Administrator, or Deputy Administrator, makes final decisions. This process is laid out in the Agency's ``Federal Advisory Committee Handbook.'' Each phase involves several steps. For example, a key step for evaluating candidates involves EPA preparing documents that reflect staff recommendations on the best qualified and most appropriate candidates for achieving balanced committee membership. In evaluating the extent to which EPA followed its process, we found that EPA followed its process for all of the committees we reviewed, except for two: The EPA Science Advisory Board and the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee. EPA did not follow a key step for appointing 20 members to these two committees. We found that the appointment packets for these two committees did not contain documents to reflect staff recommendations on the best qualified and most appropriate candidates to serve on advisory committees, which is called for in the EPA's established process. Instead of developing these documents, EPA stated that they held a series of briefings with senior management. EPA management then decided whom to appoint after reviewing the entire list of personnel nominated for committee membership. EPA stated that this change is within the discretion of the Administrator, and was a more robust process. We agree that conducting such briefings is within the discretion of the Administrator. However, it remains that, for these two committees, EPA did not follow its established committee appointment process that I just described. If it had followed its established process, staff assessments of the best qualified candidates would have been documented in a transparent way in the appointment packets. In addition, EPA would have had better assurance that its committee appointment procedures were uniform, as encouraged by the Federal Advisory Committee Act. Last, we looked at how the committees changed across the two most recent Presidential Administrations. We were only looking for notable changes, which we described as a 20 percentage point difference. We looked at four committee characteristics: Committee composition, regional affiliation, membership turnover, and number of committee meetings held. We found notable changes in all of the characteristics, except in the number of committee meetings held, for four of the advisory committees. For example, we found that the percentage of academics serving on EPA's Science Advisory Board decreased by 27 percent from January 2017 to March 2018. In summary, we made two recommendations to EPA. One was that EPA follow its committee appointment process for all of its advisory committees. The second was for EPA to strengthen oversight of its ethics program. So, Chairwomen Sherrill and Fletcher, and Ranking Members Marshall and Norman, this completes my statement. I'd be happy to answer questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Gomez follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. Next the Chair recognizes Dr. Thomas Burke for his remarks. TESTIMONY OF DR. THOMAS A. BURKE, JACOB I. AND IRENE B. FABRIKANT PROFESSOR AND CHAIR IN HEALTH RISK AND SOCIETY, BLOOMBERG SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY Dr. Burke. Thank you for the opportunity to address the Subcommittees today. I'm Dr. Tom Burke, Professor at Johns Hopkins University, Bloomberg School of Public Health. I speak today as an individual, and my views don't necessarily represent those of Johns Hopkins University, or Johns Hopkins Health System. Before joining the Hopkins faculty, I worked as a New Jersey State official, serving as the Director of Science for the Department of Environmental Protection, and then as Deputy Commissioner of Health for the State. Most relevant to today's topic, from 2015 to 2017, I was the EPA Science Advisor, and Deputy Assistant Administrator for Research and Development. Science has been called the backbone of the EPA. Credible and transparent science is core to the EPA mission, and the implementation of our national environmental laws. But far beyond Washington, the credibility of EPA science is essential to State- and community-level local officials, as they respond to emergencies, and address concerns about environmental pollution. The success of their difficult decisions depends upon public trust, and the science that supports them. The EPA advisory committees we're discussing today make sure that the Agency does the right science, and gets the science right. The advisory committees were established to provide the highest levels of independent scientific expertise and peer review. They allow the Agency to recruit the best and brightest to review, critique, and, ultimately, improve EPA science. Historically, as was mentioned, appointment to an EPA advisory board was seen as a great honor, a recognition that you're among the Nation's best in science. The advisory committee process provides important oversight and transparency so essential to developing public trust. I can speak from my own experience at the EPA overseeing a major, and controversial study on the impacts of hydraulic fracturing on drinking water. The Science Advisory Board assembled an outstanding committee of experts, provided an extensive review, including public participation, and their review improved both the science and clarity of the report, and ultimately advanced our knowledge of the impacts of fracking on our waters. Today we face unprecedented environmental challenges. Most urgently, the broad environmental health and social impacts of climate change are upon us, but let me list a few other examples. PFAs, or Teflon-related contaminants in our water and food, risks from cancer from widely used pesticides, like Roundup, lead in our aging drinking water infrastructure, harmful algal blooms, hazardous exposures from wildfires, and health risks to fenceline communities from industrial chemical discharges. These are not obscure science projects. They're real life health issues facing virtually every community across our Nation. Decisions regarding these issues will require a strong scientific leadership from EPA, and the guidance of knowledgeable and balanced advisory boards. Despite increasing demand on EPA science, the current Administration has made major changes, as we've heard, to threaten the quality, capacity, and balance of the Science Advisory Boards. Also, the recent Presidential executive order to eliminate committees presents a yet unknown, but additional troubling threat to EPA. I defer to my colleagues to present more details on those committees, but I would like to close with some observations about the state of science at EPA. EPA science is in trouble. During the past 2 years, we've witnessed a profound shift in the priorities of the Agency. The fundamental mission of protecting health and the environment has given way to a focus on deregulation. How else can you explain the rollbacks that we've seen that may result in thousands of increased deaths and illnesses each year? Sadly, the rollbacks of science-based policies have been accompanied by a dismantling of the scientific infrastructure by the current political appointees. Science has become collateral damage in their assault on our environmental health regulations. I've attached a table to my testimony that we may project on the screen here that provides an overview of the many actions that have undermined science. First, the reversal of science-based policies, interference with peer review, cuts to research--both internal and external--limiting the scientific studies supporting regulatory decisions, and finally, revising the very methods so well peer reviewed and accepted to assess health risks and benefits. These actions, left unchecked, will have lasting impacts not only on EPA, but the future of our environment, and the health of all Americans. Thank you for this opportunity to speak with you today. [The prepared statement of Dr. Burke follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. Next we have Dr. Swackhamer. TESTIMONY OF DR. DEBORAH SWACKHAMER, PROFESSOR EMERITA, HUMPHREY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA Dr. Swackhamer. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Sherrill, Chair Fletcher, Ranking Members Norman and Marshall, Chairwoman Johnson, and Committee Members. My name is Deborah Swackhamer, and I'm a Professor Emerita from the University of Minnesota. I previously served as Chair of the EPA chartered Science Advisory Board, and Chair of the EPA BOSC. I speak to you today as an environmental sciences and policy expert, and as a private citizen, and not on behalf of the U.S. EPA. My perspectives and statements are mine alone. To start, I want to underscore two important points that I elaborate on in my written testimony. First, environmental threats are very complex and multi-disciplinary, thus strong multi-disciplinary science is essential for EPA to meet its mission. The second point, external, independent expert science advice is critical to ensure that EPA is supported by the best multi-disciplinary science. When the external science advisory role is diminished or tarnished by a lack of independence, the integrity of the science used by EPA is also diminished and tarnished, and this leads to weak environmental protection. Now let me speak to BOSC specifically. EPA and ORD (Office of Research and Development) science would be diminished without an effective BOSC. BOSC advises the Assistant Administrator of the ORD on what the scope and direction of internal research should be, and to ensure the highest quality of the research being conducted. Such ongoing review allows for mid-course corrections, and infusion of new and innovative ideas. ORD is a relatively small enterprise, and thus BOSC plays an important role in keeping it on point. ORD targets its research programs to fill in the gaps that external research doesn't fill. BOSC helps identify those gaps, identify duplication, identify potential external partnerships to maximizes effectiveness, and advises on emerging issues that EPA research should get a jump start on. Without BOSC, ORD runs the risk of getting isolated from outside research advances, being unnecessarily redundant and wasteful, and it could easily fall behind in focusing on timely issues. Interference in the process of appointing BOSC members can be highly disruptive to the ability of BOSC to assist ORD. In April 2017, the members of BOSC who had served one of their two allowed terms were assured by senior ORD staff that their appointments would be renewed for a second term. One week later the Administrator's Office reversed this recommendation, and announced that none of these members' terms would be renewed. The reasons given to the media created the perception that the intent of the Administrator's Office was to remove independent research scientists, and replace them with people having a vested interest in the regulatory actions of EPA. In June 2017, all of the members of the five BOSC subcommittees who were up for second term also had their memberships terminated. Regardless of the motive, it meant that BOSC was stripped of the vast majority of its members, and scheduled meetings, and thus it could not provide timely advice to ORD on a number of important pending matters, one being recommendations on how to reprioritize research programs as a result of budget cuts. The other was the review of the next edition of ORD's strategic research plans. It took 6 months to repopulate BOSC, and another year to get them up and running. The new BOSC just had their first executive committee meeting last month, 2 years after those non-renewals. The action on the part of EPA resulted in significant disruption of the iterative and ongoing process of external scientific advice provided to ORD, important time lost while EPA research and planning proceeded without the benefit of BOSC advice. It should be noted that the Administrator took similar actions against the SAB and CASAC. Interference with science advisory boards at EPA is consistent with a broader pattern of science misuse by the Agency. Why would the Administrator's Office interfere with science advisory committees? The aggressive changes made to the advisory committee eligibility and composition are unprecedented at EPA. It is my concern that they are populating the committees with a significant number of members who have a vested interest in EPA actions and regulations, thus co-opting the committees in order to support the overall direction of the Agency to deregulate fossil fuel and other industries, and loosen environmental protections, rather than provide independent advice based on solid science. The EPA administration has demonstrated a pattern of cherry picking scientific evidence, of ignoring rigorous scientific consensus, or simply politicizing science to justify its actions. While regulations can be affected by politics, science never should be. Interference with the Science Advisory Committees is a direct attack on the integrity of science, and leads to an erosion of the scientific underpinning of environmental regulations. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Dr. Swackhamer follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And, finally, we have Dr. Samet. TESTIMONY OF DR. JONATHAN SAMET, DEAN, COLORADO SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH Dr. Samet. Good afternoon. Chairwoman Sherrill, Chair Fletcher, Ranking Members Norman and Marshall, Subcommittee Members, thank you for the opportunity to speak with the Subcommittee today. I'm Jonathan Samet, a pulmonary physician and epidemiologist, and presently Dean and Professor at the Colorado School of Public Health. Today I testify as an individual. Much of my testimony relates to the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee--in my jargon I will hereafter be saying CASAC--and I would emphasize that the S is for scientific. It was created, as noted, under the 1977 amendments to the Clean Air Act. My comments are based on serving on multiple advisory committees across a 40-year career, including serving as a consultant member for CASAC in 1995-96, when our current fine particle standard was implemented, and later chairing CASAC. During that period, the transition to the current approach for development and review of the National Ambient Air Quality Standards, or NAQS, was developed. That process is shown here. You will notice that it begins on that side, with science, and ends on the other side, with the possible promulgation of the new National Ambient Air Quality Standard. Along the way there are a number of steps. First, the development of the Integrated Science Assessment, that brings together what we know about the harms from air pollution; the Risk and Exposure Analysis, which explores how different changes to the NAQS might benefit public health; and finally, a public--a policy analysis that is brought to the Administrator as the basis for decisionmaking. CASAC provides review of each of these documents through often multiple cycles of revision as they are brought to the point where they are ready as a base--to be the basis for decisionmaking. My main points. An effective approach from moving from scientific findings to possible revisions of the NAQS has been in place for a decade, this latest process. The role of CASAC is well-defined and pivotal. Given the scope of the documents reviewed, the seven chartered members specified in the 1977 amendments have generally been augmented by 12 to 15, or more, additional panel members to do their job. For example, the current ISA (Integrated Science Assessment) for particulate matters--matter is 1,800 pages in length. The breadth of its science cannot be covered by seven people alone. CASAC's ability to provide in-depth scientific review has now been limited by the exclusion of EPA-funded researchers, often the most knowledgeable in relationship to the NAQS pollutants. This follows the 2017 rule on committee membership. With the currently ongoing review of the documents related to airborne particles, CASAC has been crippled by the 2018 dismissal of the additional panel members added to complement the seven chartered members. The resulting gap in expertise has been acknowledged by the chartered CASAC, which has requested restoration of the same, or a similar panel. Under the current CASAC chair, untested changes in review approaches have been introduced that have been disruptive to established CASAC processes. Such changes need careful evaluation by CASAC and the SAB. As described in detail in my testimony, these changes to CASAC membership and functioning are symptomatic of threats to the paradigm of moving from a scientific foundation to possible revisions of the National Ambient Air Quality Standards. Such threats include reduced EPA funding for needed research on these air pollution--air pollutants, and the potential exclusion of key studies, particularly epidemiological studies, through the proposed transparency rule. In summary, over more than 40 years, CASAC has functioned effectively in providing guidance to the EPA as it has considered whether and how to revise the National Ambient Air Quality Standards. Leading researchers, experts in air quality management, and practitioners have served on it. The hundreds of panel members have contributed thousands of hours to benefit public health. Like others, I'm proud to have contributed to CASAC. The integrity of CASAC, and its pivotal role in guiding the EPA, need to be maintained. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Dr. Samet follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And, as the Chair, I would like to thank all of our panel for hewing so closely to the time limit. Next we'll begin our first round of questions, and I'm going to recognize myself for 5 minutes. My first question is for Dr. Burke. In your testimony you note that being appointed to the EPA Science Advisory Board has traditionally considered an honor reserved for the best scientists in our Nation. I'm concerned that following former Administrator Pruitt's directive, which bars EPA grant recipients from serving on advisory committees, this is no longer the case. So in your experience, both as a scientist, and as the former Deputy Assistant Administrator for EPA's Office of Research and Development, how competitive are the EPA grants? Dr. Burke. Thank you for that question. The EPA grants, which are unfortunately now few and far between, as we've seen the reduction in the Science to Achieve Results Program at ORD, were incredibly competitive, and they were reviewed independently from the Agency by experts, and ranked, just as we have a review system at the National Institute of Health (NIH). They're very competitive, awarded to the best and brightest in the field. And, therefore, receiving those grants meant a certain degree of recognition out through academic science, but also in the general environmental science community, just as being appointed to the SAB would be seen as that recognition. So they're very competitive. What you have, when you omit those folks from the talent pool of our Nation's most prestigious advisory board, is a skewing that eliminates the best minds. What other area of science would you omit the best minds at the start, and not consider the potential conflicts of interest of people who may have direct financial interest, or have received compensation from companies that have a very big vested interest in the subject at hand. Chairwoman Sherrill. And speaking of conflicts of interest, what do you think about the justification for the order that precludes them from participating because of a conflict of interest? Dr. Burke. The--I'm--to clarify the question, the order that precludes the---- Chairwoman Sherrill. Grant recipient. Dr. Burke. That conflict of interest--financial conflict of interest is something that is very important. However, these grant processes are--imagine if we did that from peer reviewing of the NIH grants. This is something we deal with in science. It's very clear to see if there's a direct conflict, and those grant recipients don't financially benefit directly from the regulatory decision down the line. This is a convoluted process, and it's skewed to eliminate, I think, unfortunately, many of the great independent scientific experts in our academic community, while not offering similar protections from others. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And then my next question, industry representatives and consultants are notably not included in the directive claiming to strengthen independence of Science Advisory Committees, so it's certainly important that these boards consist of diverse perspectives. But this double standard seems absurd on its face, and it's especially concerning considering GAO's finding that appointees' financial disclosure forms have not been properly handled. So, Mr. Gomez, can you please remind me of what the GAO found regarding the Ethics Office's review of financial disclosures? Mr. Gomez. Sure. So we did an audit of the financial disclosure forms, and so we audited 74 different firms for special government employees and the committees, and in that review we did find that there were 17 of those forms that had not been signed and dated, so there was really a lack of assurance that those folks--that EPA had done the review, and that those folks were free of conflicts. So one of the things that we did is we recommended that the Agency strengthen the oversight of the ethics review program to do, for example, regular checks, and oversight, and spot checks to ensure that its ethics review program is working well. Chairwoman Sherrill. And, Dr. Burke, in light of the 2017 directive, could those on the payroll of regulated industry be considered to have ``a conflict of interest,'' at least as significant as EPA grant recipients? Dr. Burke. One would certainly think so. If you're sitting on that board, and a matter of perhaps the toxicity of a product from the industry that you work for is being considered, that could represent the appearance of a conflict of interest, or perhaps a direct financial conflict of interest. So that has to be carefully considered in the forms in the ethics review. And we all have received training from the Agency. It's mandatory before you're appointed to go through the training, to understand and report those apparent conflicts. We have in science, both at the National Academy and through major science advisory boards, ways to work around that, and to prevent those conflicts, and they need to be enforced. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. My time has expired, so now I'm going to recognize Mr. Norman for 5 minutes. Mr. Norman. Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill, and I want to thank each of the panelists for taking the time to come. Mr. Gomez, do you agree that any legislative action requiring Federal Advisory Committee should require the membership of the advisory committee to be fairly balanced, in terms of the points of views represented, and the functions to be performed by the Advisory Committee? Mr. Gomez. So generally, sir, the charters for each committee spell out, you know, the composition, the membership. Sometimes Congress may actually dictate, you know, whether folks should come from a particular interest. So what we did is we looked at, for each committee, what was the charter stating, also what are the--any directives, or legislative direction, and most of the committees do have that charge of bringing balance and--to the committee membership. Now, in a lot of the committees that we looked at, there isn't really a percentage that says X number should be this, and Y number should be that. It is really at--left up to the staff at EPA to decide what is it that the committee needs--or what is it that the office needs, and they usually try to get that into the advisory committees. Mr. Norman. So the answer would be yes, you think the views should represent the whole committee? Mr. Gomez. That's usually what's spelled out in the charter for each of the committees---- Mr. Norman. OK. Mr. Gomez [continuing]. Yes, that there should be balanced representation, however that's defined. Mr. Norman. All right. I'm sure you know this, but there's a direct quote from Public Law 92-463, better known as the Federal Advisory Committee Act, FACA. With your answer in mind, do you think that if one stakeholder group make up over 80 percent of a single advisory committee that that would be fairly unbalanced? Mr. Gomez. So, again, in our audit we were looking at what process the EPA has in place, and whether EPA followed its process. Our audit wasn't looking at whether the representation or the composition of the committee was balanced or unbalanced, so we don't have an opinion about what the balance should be. Our audit was a process audit to look at, hey, did EPA--does EPA have a process in place, what is it, and did they adhere to that process? Mr. Norman. So yes or no? Mr. Gomez. Well, we don't have an opinion on that, sir. Mr. Norman. OK. According to your report, at one point, in 2010, academics made up 80 percent of the Science Advisory Board. You know, I don't have anything against academics, but if that 82 percent of members were from industry, I think we'd all point to a pretty big problem. So help me understand. I know academics are world leaders in the field, but wouldn't it be beneficial to have different perspectives, at least more than 18 percent of membership, from consultants and non- governmental organizations (NGOs)? Mr. Gomez. Again, we don't have an opinion on what the makeup of the committee should be. You know, that's something that comes from EPA, in determining what is it that they need, representation, and if there's any direction, either legislative direction, or direction from the charters. Mr. Norman. OK. I get that you don't have an opinion on it, but wouldn't it make sense to have different perspectives from these other groups, other than academia? Mr. Gomez. I think so. I mean, I think that's what a lot of the committees call for. They want independent scientific advice from a variety of viewpoints, yes. Mr. Norman. OK. Thank you. And last, Mr. Gomez, this GAO report was made public yesterday, at 1:35 p.m., just barely over 24 hours before the gavel today. As far as I'm aware, none of the minority Members on this Committee were offered a chance to review a draft copy, but the majority was able to send out a summary of the full report just 3 minutes later. Did you provide the majority with a draft copy of this report before the hearing? Mr. Gomez. We did not, sir. Mr. Norman. Then how else could the majority have obtained a copy of this report? Mr. Gomez. So I think the majority maybe can speak where they obtained the copy of the report, so--we--so the report was for Senate staff, Senate requestors, and so the, you know, whoever requests the report can give it to whoever they decide, so---- Mr. Norman. But you didn't provide it? Mr. Gomez. No. Mr. Norman. OK. Thank you. Appreciate it. I yield back. Chairwoman Sherrill. And next the Chair will recognize Chairwoman Fletcher, 5 minutes. Chairwoman Fletcher. Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill. Speaking of the GAO report that was released yesterday. It did highlight a couple of areas of concern in the EPA's process for appointing members to advisory committees. First, as discussed, that the Agency didn't follow its own internal appointment process for two major scientific advisory committees, the CASAC and SAB. In EPA's response to the GAO's report, they stated that the process the Agency used for appointments to SAB and CASAC was more rigorous than the membership grid procedure that is standard for all other committees, and requested GAO remove its first findings from the report entirely. However, it's interesting to note that this supposedly more rigorous process was not utilized for other committees. Mr. Gomez, did you find any evidence that EPA used in-person briefings for other advisory committees, perhaps in addition to the prepared membership grids? Mr. Gomez. We're not aware of that. So for the--it's only for the two committees that we found, where they deviated from the process. So we're not aware that this was also done for the other committees. Chairwoman Fletcher. And if you found that it was only done for these two committees, how did EPA justify its use of this supposedly improved procedure for only two of its committees? Mr. Gomez. I mean, that's a good question. They didn't justify it to us, except that the explanation was just that they deviated, and came up with an alternative process. We don't understand why--or why they also didn't follow their established process. Chairwoman Fletcher. So what is GAO's assessment of the procedure used for SAB and CASAC appointments, and the elimination of the membership grid? Mr. Gomez. So, again, we looked at what the Agency is required to follow, according to their Handbook, and we lay out those procedures, and one of those key steps was that they develop these grids that, you know, has relative qualifications, and it's also the staff's recommendation for the best qualified staff. And so we don't understand why EPA didn't follow that for these two committees. It's not clear to us why, and so we don't have an explanation. Chairwoman Fletcher. Did EPA indicate to you that this new examination, more rigorous examination of candidates, was going to become incorporated into the Agency's Handbook? Mr. Gomez. We asked that question, and we did not get a response as to whether this new alternative process is going to be a new procedure in their Handbook. Chairwoman Fletcher. OK. Thank you. And one last question on this particular topic, is it unusual for agencies to request findings be removed from draft reports? What information would agencies need to provide to you to compel GAO to change its report findings? Mr. Gomez. Sure. So we have a standard practice of giving agencies our draft reports because we want their reaction, right? We want them to review what we have to make sure it's accurate. And so they generally will provide us comments, and sometimes it happens that we disagree, right? We disagree, and we generally want to have data and information because, you know, we are data driven, so we want to assess the data, if there's additional data. In this case, we didn't get any additional data from EPA to allow us to make any additional assessment. So sometimes it happens, and, as you noted, it's recorded in the report. Chairwoman Fletcher. Thank you. One additional topic I want to touch on, the GAO also found that 23 percent of the Advisory Committee members appointed as special government employees (SGEs) did not receive a signature from an ethics official on their SGE filing form, which ensures an employee's compliance with Federal ethics rules. Are you able to comment on the nature of the SGE ethics forms that remain unsigned? Mr. Gomez. So that's a good question, and I think we can provide for the record, like, where those forms were. I do know that some of those forms were for members of the SAB, but we can give you a listing of the committees that those pertain to. Chairwoman Fletcher. Thank you, we would like to see those. Will the GAO be conducting any additional research into the individuals who had not yet received signature on their ethics forms? Mr. Gomez. Not additional reviews, no. Chairwoman Fletcher. And have you seen this occur in other instances during your tenure at GAO? Is this a common occurrence, or an unusual occurrence? Mr. Gomez. So I'd have to get back to you on that, because I want to doublecheck to see if there have been other audits that we've done at other agencies, where we're looking at their ethics program, and to see whether, in fact, we found similar findings. So we can check to see if there are other audits we've done governmentwide, or other agencies, but I'm not aware at this moment. Chairwoman Fletcher. Well, can I take it from your answer, that this is something that you have to research and go back and look at, that this isn't a common or routine occurrence, that you would expect for so many ethics forms to be missing, a quarter of them? Mr. Gomez. Again, I don't know what--how it's at other agencies, whether--I mean, this was, for us, a finding that rose to the level of us making a recommendation, because we saw so many forms that hadn't been properly reviewed, signed, and dated, and so that concerns us, because we want to make sure that EPA has a good process in place to ensure that they are doing ethics reviews on a timely basis, again, to ensure that there are no conflicts of interest. So we thought it was important enough that it rose to the level of a recommendation that we made to EPA. EPA has agreed with our recommendation, and, as I understand it, they've already taken steps to improve that process. Chairwoman Fletcher. OK. Thank you, Mr. Gomez. We'll look forward to receiving the additional information from you, and I have gone over my time, so, Madam Chairwoman, I yield back. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Ranking Member Marshall for 5 minutes. Mr. Marshall. Yes, thank you so much. I'll keep with Mr. Gomez for a second. Want to continue to talk about this alternative process of evaluating candidates. Did you feel that what they did do in these two instances was as rigorous as the prescribed Handbook procedure? Mr. Gomez. Well, sir--so we didn't have an opportunity, because we didn't get any data on what EPA did, so EPA just told us that they had briefings with senior management, where they discussed the advantages and disadvantages, or plus and minuses, of candidates. But for all the other committees that we viewed, you know, we had those grids, those documents. We were able to see these--this is how the committee nominated folks, and this is who they viewed was most qualified. For EPA, we weren't able to see that, so we weren't able to make that assessment. Mr. Marshall. In those two, but in the other 20 committees, from a broad, holistic perspective, did you think the EPA was doing a satisfactory job in their advisory board appointments? Mr. Gomez. Yes, sir. Mr. Marshall. OK. Maybe go back to everybody left, the witnesses, do you feel there's any two committees that EPA could eliminate, Dr. Samet? Dr. Samet. I would actually probably defer to my colleague, Dr. Burke, who has a broad perspective on the various committees. And, given the broad--breadth of EPA science, its multidisciplinary, I suspect that there's a rather lean set of committees, but I would defer to Dr. Burke on this. Dr. Burke. There are, I think, 18, 18, and 22 committees at EPA, and they represent a tremendous amount of different interests. For instance, there's a Committee on Environmental Justice, there's a---- Mr. Marshall. I'm sorry, it's kind of a yes or no. Do you think there's some that could be eliminated? Dr. Burke. I would think that, as has been mandated by the executive order, to carefully study and understand the criteria would be necessary before saying they should be eliminated, so---- Mr. Marshall. But they could be absorbed, or combined, or something like that? Dr. Burke. I would really defer to the process on that. I can't say. I found them to be tremendously influential and important, and particularly important to the business community, as---- Mr. Marshall. And there is a process that if they're declared essential, we can bypass that. I'll go back to Mr. Gomez. Looking at your charts on just the proportion of academic members in a committee, your SAB report, 22 academic members, and there's five industry members, about an eighth of it is industry. What is an ideal ration of academic to non- academic, and how do you get there? Mr. Gomez. Again, that's a good question, and I think that that's driven, as I mentioned earlier, by the charter of the committee, and whatever the needs are of EPA, to make those determinations. Again, we were not looking at what's the proper composition. That wasn't our focus. Our focus, again, was a process audit, to look at what's the process, did EPA follow the process, and if not, you know, what is it they can do to improve it? Mr. Marshall. Yes. I mean, I kind of look at things through healthcare, since I'm a physician, and I think of recommendations for pap smears and mammograms, and the academic folks telling us you only need a pap smear every 3 years, young women don't need mammograms, but I was the person down there with the experience, trying to tell a woman why she didn't need that pap smear, or didn't need a mammogram, and really I thought it was in her best interest to get it. And I really think that there's a great place for people from industry, and non-academics. And I guess I would almost take exception that people on the committees are the best and the highest qualified, with my experience in medicine is the brightest, the greatest, were so busy, so popular, had such a long waiting list, they didn't have time to do some of these committees. So I think it's a different pool of people that are even available to have the time, and really think that we should keep really emphasizing non-academic members on some of these committees. So, with that, I'll yield back the remainder of my time. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And next the Chair recognizes Representative Lamb for 5 minutes. Mr. Lamb. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Dr. Burke, I just wanted to ask you kind of a series of questions with pretty short answers, if you don't mind. You have appointments at Hopkins in both Environmental Health and Oncology, is that right? Dr. Burke. Yes. Mr. Lamb. And is that because, over time, we've learned that there can be a link between industrial activity, and what that puts into the environment, and rates of cancer among people that work there, or people that live near wherever that site is? Dr. Burke. Yes. I've devoted my career to that kind of science. Mr. Lamb. So could we actually say, in some sense, your job has to do with trying to prevent cancer in people that live near these places? You're studying the effect that it has in the hope that maybe at some point we can do things to prevent people from getting cancer? Dr. Burke. I think that's what epidemiologists strive for, not just for cancer, but for all environmentally related diseases. Mr. Lamb. Right. And in doing that, do you employ something called the scientific method? Dr. Burke. Yes. Mr. Lamb. And there's different ways to describe that, but I remember, at least from being in school, that the scientific method is a process that we've constructed over the years, where maybe first you observe, and then you measure things, and then you might do experiments, and then you construct a hypothesis, but then you continue to change that and refine it as you learn more. Is that, like, a fair general description of the scientific method? Dr. Burke. Absolutely. Mr. Lamb. OK. Now, when you start out on any scientific problem, and you want to employ the scientific method, is it important that you try to eliminate, or put to the side, any biases that you might have about the problem before you start it? Dr. Burke. I think it's important from the start to the finish of scientific work to try and understand biases, and to put them forth, and to deal with them throughout the process. Mr. Lamb. Yes. And that's actually--would you say that's kind of what separates a real scientist from, say, an advocate, or even, like, a politician like me? Dr. Burke. I'm so glad you mentioned that, because we're getting our signals mixed here today between stakeholder comment and scientific peer review. I agree that stakeholders have an enormous role to play in policy decisions, but with scientific peer review, it's about expertise, and the right disciplines at the table. Mr. Lamb. Thank you. Yes, I thought the use of the word stakeholder was a little bit odd as well, because if you have someone, for example, like you, who has chosen to devote their career to trying to prevent people from getting cancer, it doesn't really seem to me like you have a stake, other than just what's good for society. So I don't know that that's the best word to use to describe your role in the process. And I thought your list was great of the most challenging and pressing environmental problems right now, because I think you had eight on there. Of those eight, seven of them pretty directly impact people in western Pennsylvania, where I'm from, every single day, just due to our history, and the economic activity that we have right now. So just to pick one, you mentioned the report that you worked on about the impact of fracking on drinking water, and western Pennsylvania is more or less the capital of hydraulic fracturing, at least in the northeast. I have lots of constituents that live near drilling sites, that have family members that live near drilling sites. We have well pads at our airport, which, you know, a lot of people in our region go through all the time. So the main thing that we all want to know is that when we turn on the tap in our houses, or you drink water from the fountain at the airport, whatever it is, that there's a pretty good chance you're not being poisoned, or being exposed to something that can give you cancer. And we know that none of us are ever going to know that for sure. I don't know exactly where every well pad is, or how it's influencing, but you want to have some trust there, right? We always say a cop on the beat. I mean, that's a fair analogy, right, the idea that you guys are neutrally investigating for the good of the public about these questions, right? Dr. Burke. Yes. Mr. Lamb. So that report that you did while you were at EPA, and you used the Science Advisory Board as part of that, would that be part of that process, kind of, of being the cop on the beat to protect the public, and the water that they drink, in a place like mine? Dr. Burke. I might use a different analogy. We weren't cops. It wasn't a regulatory report. It was trying to do public health to understand a fundamental question, are the activities related to fracking impacting our water resources, particularly our drinking water resources, because that was the burning question. Mr. Lamb. Yes, it's a good point. You're kind of doing the part of the cop's--I'm a former prosecutor, which is why I use that analogy, but you're doing the part of the cop's job that actually comes first, which is just that basic act of observing, and measuring, and recording what happened. Dr. Burke. Right. Mr. Lamb. Before we decide who we need to arrest or prosecute, what exactly happened here is a question of fact. And so, doing that report, you had to use the scientific method, again, in order to determine what might be happening to our drinking water, right? Dr. Burke. Yes, sir. Mr. Lamb. And wouldn't it be fair to say that to learn about our drinking water using the scientific method, to write a scientific report, it would've been a good idea to have actual scientists involved in that process, right? Chairwoman Sherrill. And if you could answer quickly? The gentleman's time has expired. Dr. Burke. Yes. And they were, and it was a very rigorous-- -- Mr. Lamb. And that's what you were trying to do. Thank you. I'm sorry I went over my time. And, as you noted, I'm sure we'll continue to explain, there are lots of ways that the industry has input into this process along the way, because, as you noted, you were not making the regulation. You were finding out what happened, and what could be happening, to our drinking water, and I thank you to that. I yield back, Madam Chairwoman. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And now the Chair recognizes Representative Babin for 5 minutes. Mr. Babin. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for being here today. Mr. Gomez, are EPA ethics officials, are they career staffers? Mr. Gomez. Yes, sir. Mr. Babin. OK. So, from your finding and recommendation, you're saying that EPA career officials, however many in number they may be, are not doing their job? Is that what you're saying? Mr. Gomez. So our finding was that, yes, I mean, we found cases, 17 cases, where the financial disclosure forms had not been signed and dated, so really there was no assurance that someone had reviewed them. We also did find cases where, you know, forms weren't reviewed and signed within the allowed time, 60 days, and so the explanation that we got from EPA was that they were short staffed in that office, and so, since then, they've added additional people, and they have noted that they're doing a more regular review to make sure that the folks that are sometimes the designated folks to review those forms are doing it in the right way, and within the right amount of time. Mr. Babin. OK. Thank you. And then, as the Ranking Member on the Space Subcommittee, I have the pleasure of hearing from NASA witnesses on almost a weekly basis, and yet it seems it's not very often that someone brings up criticism of their advisory boards, especially any that may be as large as the EPA Science Advisory Board. Is it fair to say that the Federal Advisory Committees at NASA would share the same essential to best science outlook as EPA's committees? Dr. Burke? Dr. Burke. Yes. I would hope that all the agencies--I'm sorry. Mr. Babin. OK. Dr. Burke. I would hope that all agencies depend upon Federal advisory committees that do bring the kind of expertise they need, especially science agencies like NASA, like Agriculture, like EPA. Mr. Babin. OK. And anybody else want to take a stab at that? OK. All right. And along with the two Ranking Members here today, I have my concerns on the scope of this hearing. NASA has some crucial advisory committees. Department of Energy has some crucial advisory committees, and so does the National Science Foundation. The list goes on. Science informs decisions at agencies other than the EPA, and I think this hearing could've been a chance to hear from all of them, instead of repeating this show at the Full Committee level in a couple of weeks. And, with that, I yield back, Madam Chair. Thank you. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Representative McAdams for 5 minutes. Is he here? He's not here, so we will go on to Representative Wexton for 5 minutes. Ms. Wexton. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing today. Much has been said, both today and over the past 2-1/2 years by observers of EPA's actions, about the danger of politicizing these boards, and filling them with unqualified appointees, climate deniers, and a high number of individuals who are financially dependent on regulated industries. In its report, the GAO pointed to BOSC as a committee with unusually high turnover--71 percent of those on BOSC on January 19, 2017, were no longer serving on the Board 15 months later. This mass exodus of individuals who are aware of the specific purpose and functioning of BOSC is concerning. Dr. Swackhamer, why is it important that these advisory boards include a number of individual members with experience advising the Agency? Why do we need to make sure we do that? Dr. Swackhamer. Thank you for that question. I think it's always important not just for BOSC, but for lots of these advisory committees, to have some expertise from previous generations of these boards, you know, previous iterations of these boards, to carry forth understanding of what's going on before them, the depth of some of these issues. Some of these issues take more than 2 or 3 years to actually get through, and so you need a certain number of people on the committee that understand that context. They provide a lot of context. The other thing is that EPA is actually a very complicated Agency, and to understand the science that's being done at EPA actually takes quite a while to figure out who's doing what, how it's--how it connects to the regulatory mission of EPA. It's a complicated--often it's called a Byzantine Agency. And so, you know, it probably took me, you know, a full year of being on BOSC, before I was chair, to even understand how it all worked. And so you kind of come in as a freshman, and you learn the ropes. And so then to lose, you know, 80 percent, 70 percent of that expertise in one fell swoop was devastating. And, of course, it then took months to even bring in new people. But now the new BOSC is considerably made up of freshmen. Ms. Wexton. And that impacts their effectiveness as an advisory committee, would you agree? Dr. Swackhamer. I think it just means that their learning curve--they're still on a learning curve, instead of being at the top of that learning curve, and they're not benefiting from having enough people on that committee who can kind of bring them up to speed, and provide that expertise. Ms. Wexton. Very good. Thank you. Dr. Samet, thank you for your thorough overview of CASAC's role in developing adequately protective standards for the health and safety of Americans. It concerns me that the Administration that is so bent on diluting science's role in regulatory decisions is now responsible for creating these important standards. In particular, the EPA has cut expert subpanels on particulate matter and ozone, but it seems they are still planning on completing the regulatory process by the end of next year. Dr. Samet, is EPA permitted to raise the allowable threshold of a pollutant? Dr. Samet. The Clean Air Act requires that the Administrator set a standard that is protecting the public health, with an adequate margin of safety, for the National Ambient Air Quality standard pollutants. In that context, given the lengthy record of evidence review and findings that the standards are either protective, or, in the case of particulate matter and ozone, in fact, there's concern that we cannot achieve standards that will provide that protection with an adequate margin of safety, it would be difficult for me to see how a true science-based review would lead to the possibility of raising the standards. It certainly is a concerning possibility, but, given the mandate--strong public health mandate of the Clean Air Act, I would hope that the possibility to which you refer would never take place. Ms. Wexton. So does it appear to you that the EPA is setting the stage for weakening the standards for ozone and particulate matter, from what you have observed? Dr. Samet. The questions that will come to the Administrator would be whether the NAQS for either ozone or PM needs to be revised. The science processes that would lead to that decision have typically been looked at as--the possibility of lowering the standard values. Perhaps one of the threats could be that evidence that has been viewed in the past is supporting evidence of harm, and the need to reduce the standards, would be set aside under some of the approaches for evidence evaluation and inclusion or exclusion, i.e. the transparency rule, as an example, which probably most threatens epidemiological evidence. Ms. Wexton. And, in your view as a pulmonary physician and as an epidemiologist, would it be scientifically justifiable for the EPA to weaken the standards for ozone and particulate matter at this time? Dr. Samet. From my---- Chairwoman Sherrill. And, again, if you could just go quickly? The gentlewoman's time's expired. Dr. Samet. OK. From my own perspective, the evidence, particularly the epidemiological evidence, indicates ongoing risk at current levels of exposure. Ms. Wexton. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, for your indulge. Yield---- Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And now the Chair recognizes Representative Baird for 5 minutes. Mr. Baird. Thank you, Chairwomen Sherrill and Fletcher, and Ranking Members Norman and Marshall, and I really want to thank the witnesses for being here today. And my question goes to each of you, or all of you, and it has to do with the fact that all of you are very familiar with the Science Advisory Board, but the National Academies have a similar process in putting together their panels. Do you think the SAB, or other advisory committees, could mimic parts of that National Academy process, and if so, what would be the benefits of doing that? And, Mr. Gomez, you can start--or, no, I see Mr. Samet's ready to go. Dr. Samet. Thank you. I'll speak to this as a more than 20- year member of the National Academy of Medicine, previously the Institute of Medicine. I'm quite familiar with those processes. There the committees are addressing particularly charged questions, and assuring that both there's a balance of scientific views on whatever the matter may be, and that there is no conflict of interests. In a sense, the process is somewhat akin to that of the Agency in picking the scientific disciplines that need to be represented to provide guidance to the Agency. There are certainly, at the National Academies, considerations of potential conflicts of interest and ethics. A potential conflict alone might not be the basis for exclusion of someone from a panel. It's typically a balance of scientific views on matters that are sometimes complex, that it is an underlying principle. Dr. Swackhamer. I can just agree with that, that I'm--I have been on many National Academy committees. I currently serve on two of their committees, and have been involved with the EPA science advisory advice for more than a decade. And I would say that the number one criteria from both of those bodies, organizations, is to make sure that, at the table, you have the right array of expertise, and the right perspectives. And so, on committees for the National Academy, as well as committees at EPA, you always have some industry perspective, some NGO perspective, some State perspective, hopefully some Native American perspective. You have community perspective and urban perspective, you have--on all the sciences as well. And so the number one driving parameter is making sure you have the right science at the table. Dr. Burke. And I would just add the Academy goes to great measures before each study to evaluate potential financial conflict of interest, even the appearance of conflict of interest, and every member of a committee continually updates that information. And so, yes, the Academy process is a great model, and in the past I think the EPA Science Advisory Board, and other scientific committees, tried to imitate, and use those good provisions that have helped us prevent bias and conflict. Mr. Gomez. So GAO also works directly with a number of National Academy of Science panels and committees. Sometimes we convene our own expert panels with the help of the National Academies. So what I would just say, that whether it's a National Academies panel, or an EPA advisory committee, that the selection process is transparent, is well-documented, so that people can see what's taking place. Mr. Baird. So thank you, and I yield back my time. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. Next, the Chair recognizes Representative Beyer for 5 minutes. Mr. Beyer. Thank you, Madam Chair, very much, and thank you all very much for being with us, Dr. Swackhamer with us again. I remember when you came to testify before us in 2017. That was the day we were shocked to learn that, on the day of the hearing, an EPA political appointee attempted to alter your testimony, encourage you to mislead the Committee on important facts, despite the fact that you were invited to testify as an independent scientist, and that you had actually cleared your participation with the EPA Ethics Office ahead of time. So we were aghast. My colleagues and I referred this to the EPA Inspector General, but we have not yet heard of the final judgment. Have you been contacted and had discussions with the Inspector General along the way? Dr. Swackhamer. I have not. Mr. Beyer. That is not the answer I was expecting, but I'm stunned, and I think we will follow up with that again. So you have no sense of when the Inspector General is prepared to do a final report on this? Dr. Swackhamer. No, I do not. Mr. Beyer. Did you experience any pressure from the EPA today? Dr. Swackhamer. No. Once again, because I continue to hold a special government employee appointment at EPA, I did clear my participation here with the Ethics Office at EPA. Mr. Beyer. So there's progress from 2 years ago, that you at least weren't pressured this time, right, so---- Dr. Swackhamer. Right. Mr. Beyer. Dr. Burke, you wrote, among other things, that the advisory committees were established and structured to provide EPA with the highest level of independent scientific expertise and peer review, emphasis on the word independent, be able to recruit the best and brightest, and elsewhere the AP was quoted as saying that the Administrator's Office was attempting to remove independent research scientists, and replace them with people having a vested interest in the regulatory actions. My friend from South Carolina talked earlier about--asked a question about fair and balanced--that's a fun phrase--and was somehow arguing that 80 percent academics would make it unfairly balanced. Can someone who is paid by the industry, that has a strong profit motivation, whose interests are dominated by shareholder value, ever be expected to come to something like that without an industry agenda? And can they ever be expected fairly to come with an independent scientific agenda when they're being paid by an industry to represent them? Dr. Burke. Let me speak from experience. I've been in this role a long time as a regulator and as a scientist, and in my long experience in environmental protection. When the industry folks come and present their science, it very rarely comes down on the side of protecting public health, and pointing out to an agency, perhaps, that they have a hazard there. Rather, it's to push back on public health measures, whether it's a level for cleanup, a standard that you're setting. So, sure, it's in the interest of an industry to protect their business interests, and you expect that. That's a source of bias. We have to control that. Somebody getting their paycheck to work for that industry, would that be a potential conflict of interest? Yes, and that should be made clear, and it should be balanced in the process. On the other hand, when you need expertise, like we did for the fracking report, where else to go but the oil and gas industry to get the best engineers, and the people who understand the process? So you have to be able to tap that industry expertise and genius, but also balance the biases. Mr. Beyer. OK. As a small businessperson, our family business has been selling cars, I have often gotten upset when somebody's promoting a Chevrolet when we don't represent that product, you know? And as 5 years on this Committee, I've so often seen the industry representatives come specifically to talk about why we are trying to regulate their industry too much, why it's too high a standard for ozone, or the like. Dr. Samet, one of the other things that showed up here was the old discussion we had, where in this Trump era revisions, if a scientist got an EPA grant, they weren't allowed to serve on the Scientific Advisory Boards, but there was no such restriction on the industry scientists. Doesn't this asymmetry strike you as remarkable? Dr. Samet. The asymmetry is concerning. And, again, people get grants, as Dr. Burke pointed out, because they're able to compete for funding at the highest level, and to lose that large pool of expertise potentially harms the review process. Mr. Beyer. I agree. Thank you. Madam Chair, I yield back. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And the Chair recognizes Representative Tonko for 5 minutes. Mr. Tonko. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for today's hearing on what is an increasingly important topic, and it's great to hear your perspectives. Credible independent science and evidence should shape Federal policy without the distorting effects of inappropriate political interference or conflicts of interest. Science advisory boards are staffed by the top experts in their field. These are the people who understand the science best, and can be trusted to help ensure that our air is clean, that our water is safe to drink, and that toxic chemicals aren't released into our environment to harm our families and communities. Rather than listening to and respecting science, the Trump Administration is focused on removing as many of these scientific experts as they can off of America's Federal science advisory boards. As these credible independent scientists are being pushed out, the Administration's political leaders are working to replace them with industry advocates, and for-profit consultants. As a result, admittedly unqualified people are now in positions where they are reviewing issues they don't fully understand. In fact, many of these replacements are consultants on a corporate payroll, with many real conflicts of interest. These board positions are critical for safeguarding the public health and safety of millions of Americans. We need to know that the people who serve on these boards are working toward the best interests of the American people, and not sacrificing public good for the private gain of their employer. So we must ask ourselves, why would the Trump Administration shut out the scientists and experts who know these issues best? We sounded the alarms when these actions were first proposed. Our fears have now been realized, that this Administration continues clearing out scientific experts to make room for non-experts bought and paid for by private industry. This is shameful, and all of us will pay the price. So, Dr. Samet, on April 11, 2019, the chartered CASAC issued a letter to Administrator Wheeler, accompanying its review of the draft Integrated Science Assessment, or the ISA, of particulate matter. In the letter they state that they are not equipped to provide a comprehensive review, lacking, amongst other specialties, an epidemiologist and a statistician. Administrator Wheeler has yet to respond to this recommendation. A, in your experience as CASAC chair, is this type of letter precedented? Dr. Samet. To ask for additional expertise beyond the seven chartered members was never necessary because the panels were always supplemented by the array of experts that was needed. I won't bore you with all the details of the 1,800 pages of the ISA, except to say that a broad group of scientists is needed to review it, well beyond the expertise of any seven people, and when CASAC wisely requested restoration of the panel, or a similar group, they did the right thing. Mr. Tonko. And what is your perspective on the reinstatement of the PM and ozone panels? Dr. Samet. I think that CASAC will be unable to do its job, remembering that this is only the first of three documents that they need to look at, without having additional expertise, particularly in epidemiology, which has been critical to both the PM and ozone standards, and in statistics, to go through the complicated analyses that are done to pull out the results to show the risks. Mr. Tonko. And what do you think is the consequence of Administrator Wheeler ignoring this request, and accepting the review submitted by a panel that admits it is unqualified? Dr. Samet. Well, I use the word crippled. The CASAC is, in fact, crippled, and I think that is a fair description. If you look at the comments, they are lengthy. They try to do their job, and, in doing so, they recognize that they could not do it the way they should. Mr. Tonko. And can CASAC's review of the PM ISA be considered actionable, given that they have identified deficiencies in their capabilities to conduct what would be a thorough review? Dr. Samet. CASAC has requested revisions to the PM ISA, and once done, they will certainly need the broad range of expertise they've called for to do their job. Mr. Tonko. Thank you. And, Dr. Burke, in your testimony you touch upon how the Advisory Committee process is one that prioritizes and ensures transparency in the Agency's scientific decisionmaking. Why is transparency so vital, so important? Dr. Burke. I think trust is vital to any successful policy. Transparency in the process of science, inclusion of broad peer review, public comment, is really essential to the way we build our policies in this country. Mr. Tonko. And do you anticipate that the June executive order cutting FACA committees will impact agencies' transparency to---- Dr. Burke. I am very concerned about representativeness and feedback during the development of policy if we lose an enormous amount of our advisory committees, yes. Mr. Tonko. Do any of our other witnesses care to comment on the executive order? Chairwoman Sherrill. And if you could be quick? The gentleman's time has expired. Dr. Swackhamer. Since BOSC has been identified as one of those discretionary committees not established by Congress, but by the administrators themselves some time ago, in 1996, I would be--I think it would be a tremendous loss to EPA, and to the Office of Research and Development, if they lost the expertise and the advice of BOSC. Mr. Tonko. Thank you very much. And, Madam Chair, I yield back. Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. At this point, before we bring the hearing to a close, I want to thank our witnesses for testifying here today. The record will remain open for 2 weeks for additional statements from the Members, and for any additional questions the Committee may ask of the witnesses. The witnesses are excused, and the hearing is now adjourned. [Whereupon, at 4:05 p.m., the Subcommittees were adjourned.] Appendix I ---------- [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]