[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
INNOVATIONS IN EXPANDING REGISTERED
APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION
AND LABOR
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, MARCH 27, 2019
__________
Serial No. 116-13
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Labor
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: www.govinfo.gov
or
Committee address: https://edlabor.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
36-588 PDF WASHINGTON : 2019
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR
ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia, Chairman
Susan A. Davis, California Virginia Foxx, North Carolina,
Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona Ranking Member
Joe Courtney, Connecticut David P. Roe, Tennessee
Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania
Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, Tim Walberg, Michigan
Northern Mariana Islands Brett Guthrie, Kentucky
Frederica S. Wilson, Florida Bradley Byrne, Alabama
Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Mark Takano, California Elise M. Stefanik, New York
Alma S. Adams, North Carolina Rick W. Allen, Georgia
Mark DeSaulnier, California Francis Rooney, Florida
Donald Norcross, New Jersey Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania
Pramila Jayapal, Washington Jim Banks, Indiana
Joseph D. Morelle, New York Mark Walker, North Carolina
Susan Wild, Pennsylvania James Comer, Kentucky
Josh Harder, California Ben Cline, Virginia
Lucy McBath, Georgia Russ Fulcher, Idaho
Kim Schrier, Washington Van Taylor, Texas
Lauren Underwood, Illinois Steve Watkins, Kansas
Jahana Hayes, Connecticut Ron Wright, Texas
Donna E. Shalala, Florida Daniel Meuser, Pennsylvania
Andy Levin, Michigan* William R. Timmons, IV, South
Ilhan Omar, Minnesota Carolina
David J. Trone, Maryland Dusty Johnson, South Dakota
Haley M. Stevens, Michigan
Susie Lee, Nevada
Lori Trahan, Massachusetts
Joaquin Castro, Texas
* Vice-Chair
Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director
Brandon Renz, Minority Staff Director
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT
SUSAN A. DAVIS, California, Chairwoman
Joe Courtney, Connecticut Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania
Mark Takano, California Ranking Member
Pramila Jayapal, Washington Brett Guthrie, Kentucky
Josh Harder, California Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Andy Levin, Michigan Elise Stefanik, New York
Ilhan Omar, Minnesota Jim Banks, Indiana
David Trone, Maryland Mark Walker, North Carolina
Susie Lee, Nevada James Comer, Kentucky
Lori Trahan, Massachusetts Ben Cline, Virginia
Joaquin Castro, Texas Russ Fulcher, Idaho
Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona Steve C. Watkins, Jr., Kansas
Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, Dan Meuser, Pennsylvania
Northern Mariana Islands William R. Timmons, IV, South
Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon Carolina
Alma S. Adams, North Carolina
Donald Norcross, New Jersey
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on March 27, 2019................................... 1
Statement of Members:
Davis, Hon. Susan A., Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Higher
Education and Workforce Investment......................... 1
Prepared statement of.................................... 3
Smucker, Hon. Lloyd, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Higher
Education and Workforce Investment......................... 4
Prepared statement of.................................... 6
Statement of Witnesses:
Carlson, Ms. Jennifer, Executive Director, Apprenti.......... 8
Prepared statement of.................................... 11
Gainer, Ms. Bridget, Vice President of Global Public Affairs,
AON........................................................ 52
Prepared statement of.................................... 55
Hays, Mr. Mark, Vice Chancellor of Workforce and Economic
Development, Dalas County Community College Districe....... 46
Prepared statement of.................................... 48
Pavesic, Mr. James G., Director of Education and Training,
United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the
Plumbing and Pipe Fitting Industry of the United States and
Canada, AFL-CIO............................................ 36
Prepared statement of.................................... 38
Additional Submissions:
Jayapal, Hon. Pramila, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Washington:
Report: Washington State Department of Transportation.... 97
Sablan, Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho, a Representative in
Congress from the Northern Mariana Islands:
Prepared statement of the International Union of Painters
and Allied Trades (IUPAT).............................. 110
Questions submitted for the record by:
Chairwoman Davis
Omar, Hon. Ilhan, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Minnesota..................................... 119
Mr. Sablan
Scott, Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'' , a Representative in
Congress from the State of Virginia
Trahan, Hon. Lori, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Massachusetts
Responses to questions submitted for the record by:
Ms. Carlson.............................................. 121
Mr. Hays................................................. 126
Mr. Pavesic.............................................. 128
INNOVATIONS IN EXPANDING REGISTERED APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS
----------
Wednesday, March 27, 2019
House of Representatives
Committee on Education and Labor,
Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment
Washington, DC.
----------
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., in
room 2175, Rayburn House Office Building. Hon. Susan A. Davis
[chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Davis, Courtney, Takano, Jayapal,
Harder, Levin, Trone, Lee, Trahan, Castro, Sablan, Bonamici,
Adams, Norcross, Smucker, Guthrie, Grothman, Stefanik, Banks,
Walker, Cline, Watkins, Meuser, and Timmons.
Also present: Representatives Scott, and Foxx.
Staff present: Staff Present: Tylease Alli, Chief Clerk;
Nekea Brown, Deputy Clerk; Mishawn Freeman, Staff Assistant;
Christian Haines, General Counsel Education; Stephanie Lalle,
Deputy Communications Director; Bertram Lee, Policy Counsel;
Andre Lindsay, Staff Assistant; Jaria Martin, Staff Assistant;
Katherine McClelland, Professional Staff; Kevin McDermott,
Senior Labor Policy Advisor; Richard Miller, Director of Labor
Policy; Max Moore, Office Aide; Merrick Nelson, Digital
Manager; Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director; Banyon Vassar,
Deputy Director of Information Technology; Claire Viall,
Professional Staff; Joshua Weisz, Communications Director;
Cyrus Artz, Minority Parliamentarian; Courtney Butcher,
Minority Coalitions and Members Services Coordinator; Bridget
Handy, Minority Legislative Assistant; Blake Johnson, Minority
Staff Assistant; Amy Raaf Jones, Minority Director of Education
and Human Resources Policy; Hannah Matesic, Minority Director
of Operations; Kelley McNabb, Minority Communications Director;
Jake Middlebrooks, Minority Professional Staff Member; Brandon
Renz, Minority Staff Director; Mandy Schaumburg, Minority Chief
Counsel and Deputy Director of Education Policy; Meredith
Schellin, Minority Deputy Press Secretary and Digital Advisor;
Brad Thomas, Minority Senior Education Policy Advisor; and
Lauren Williams, Minority Professional Staff.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Good morning. The Committee on Education
& Labor will come to order. We certainly want to welcome
everybody here today. I note that a quorum is present and the
committee is receiving testimony today on innovations in
expanding Registered Apprenticeship programs.
The Subcommittee on Higher Education & Workforce Investment
is holding what is actually our first real official hearing
this term, to examine opportunities to expand access to high
quality Registered Apprenticeship programs.
Registered Apprenticeships are a valuable tool in our
effort to help more Americans get the skills they need to
compete in the modern economy. And for apprentices, these
programs provide access to good paying jobs and benefits that
provide employees increased wages as they build their skills, a
valuable credential that can help secure future employment and
of course advance along a rewarding career path.
Over 90 percent of apprentices are employed after
completing their apprenticeships--that is quite a number
actually--and earn an average starting wage above $60,000
annually. Over the course of a career, individuals with
apprenticeship credentials can earn around $300,000 more than
non-apprentices.
Registered Apprenticeship programs are similarly beneficial
for employers. They can build a pipeline of more productive and
talented workers who are more likely to remain at their jobs
for an extended period of time. It builds loyalty, and we have
heard that repeatedly. Studies have shown that for every dollar
that employers invest in apprenticeships they receive $1.47 in
improved productivity, reduced waste, and greater innovation.
But not all training programs are shown to be this
beneficial. The key ingredient that has made the Registered
Apprenticeship so successful is the consistent quality found
across all apprenticeship programs. Quality standards in
Registered Apprenticeship programs not only ensure that
apprentices build valuable skills while earning a salary and
benefits, but they also ensure apprentices receive a credential
that is valued in the labor market and recognized by employers
across the country.
These programs require employers to develop a plan
combining classroom and on the job training, and this includes
a schedule for when and how the program will help workers
increase wages as they build skills and competencies.
In June of 2017 the White House issued an Executive Order
creating the President's Taskforce on Apprenticeship Expansion.
The Taskforce recommended a second track for apprenticeships,
called industry recognized apprenticeship programs, or what we
call IRAPs.
IRAPs would allow private entities to both create and set
their own standards for apprenticeship programs without the
quality assurance and approval of the Department of Labor. In
other words, IRAPs would not be required to maintain the same
quality standards as Registered Apprenticeships but would still
have access to the same taxpayer dollars dedicated for high-
quality Registered Apprenticeships. And the rationale behind
this proposed change is that the current apprenticeship system
is too burdensome and inflexible.
And today we have witnesses who run the Registered
Apprenticeship programs in sectors including information
technology, insurance, and construction, and I hope that we
will be able to talk, you know, about the differences to a
certain degree and how we can certainly see clear so that it is
a process that people can understand easily and that it is not
a cumbersome one.
The committee welcomes their perspectives on whether the
Registered Apprenticeship model meets the needs of their
industries and ways to improve the system while maintaining
quality and how to support expansion of high-quality programs.
To ensure that the proposed IRAP program does not waste
taxpayer dollars we need to examine then if it will provide
employers with a consistent level of quality standards that
they already expect from Registered Apprenticeship programs and
if it is necessary to divert resources to maintain two
apprenticeship programs as opposed to improving and modernizing
one national apprenticeship system.
According to a study done by the Harvard Business Review,
there are currently 47 occupations--26 of which commonly
require a 4-year degree--that would benefit from creating new
apprenticeships--but have required skills that can be obtained
without one. And this includes professions such as computer
support specialist.
And just as we must expand apprenticeships into new
sectors, we must expand into nontraditional demographics.
Women, for example, make up nearly half the U.S. work force yet
account for less than 10 percent of apprentices.
I know through my conversations that there is strong
bipartisan support for apprenticeships. Last Congress I joined
with Mr. Guthrie in introducing the Apprentice Act, which would
have expanded apprenticeship programs and awareness as well as
creating a better alignment between the Departments of
Education and Labor. There are a number of other good proposals
that we will consider, such as expanding pre-apprenticeships
and growing the number of intermediaries who can assist small
and medium sized businesses.
I want to thank our witnesses for traveling long distances
to be with us here today, and we certainly look forward to all
of your testimony.
I now yield to the ranking member, Mr. Smucker, for the
purpose of an opening statement.
[The statement of Chairwoman Davis follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Susan A. Davis, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on
Higher Education and Workforce Investment
This morning, the Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce
Investment is holding its first hearing to examine opportunities to
expand access to high-quality Registered Apprenticeship programs.
Registered Apprenticeships are a valuable tool in our effort to
help more Americans get the skills they need to compete in the modern
economy. For apprentices, these programs provide access to:
* Good paying jobs and benefits that provide employees increased
wages as they build their skills,
* A valuable credential that can help secure future employment, and
* Advancement along a rewarding career path.
Over 90 percent of apprentices are employed after completing their
apprenticeships and earn an average starting wage above $60,000
annually. And, over the course of a career, individuals with
apprenticeship credentials can earn around $300,000 more than non-
apprentices.
Registered apprenticeship programs are similarly beneficial for
employers that can build a pipeline of more productive and talented
workers who are more likely to remain at their jobs for an extended
period of time.
Studies have shown that for every dollar that employers invest in
apprenticeships, they receive $1.47 in increased productivity, reduced
waste, and greater innovation.
But not all job training programs are shown to be this beneficial.
The key ingredient that has made registered apprenticeships so
successful is the consistent quality found across all apprenticeship
programs.
Quality standards in registered apprenticeship programs not only
ensure that apprentices build valuable skills while earning a salary
and benefits, they also ensure apprentices receive a credential that is
valued in the labor market and recognized by employers across the
country.
Registered apprenticeship programs require employers to develop a
plan combining classroom and on-the-job training. This includes a
schedule for when and how the program will help workers increase wages
as they build skills and competencies.
In June 2017, the White House issued an executive order creating
the President's Taskforce on Apprenticeship Expansion. The taskforce
recommended a second track for apprenticeships--called Industry
Recognized Apprenticeship Programs, or IRAPs.
IRAPs would allow private entities to both create and set their own
standards for ``apprenticeship'' programs without the quality assurance
and approval of the Department of Labor. In other words, IRAPs would
not be required to maintain the same quality standards as registered
apprenticeships but would still have access to the same taxpayer
dollars dedicated for high-quality Registered Apprenticeships.
The rationale behind this proposed change is that the current
apprenticeship system is too burdensome and inflexible.
Today, we have witnesses who run Registered Apprenticeship programs
in sectors including information technology, insurance, and
construction.
The Committee welcomes their perspectives on:
* Whether the Registered Apprenticeship model meets the needs of
their industries,
* Ways to improve the system while maintaining quality, and
* How to support expansion of high-quality programs.
To ensure that the proposed IRAPs program does not waste taxpayer
dollars, we need to examine:
* If it will provide employers with the consistent level of quality
standards, they already expect from Registered Apprenticeship programs,
and
* If it is necessary to divert resources to maintain two
apprenticeship programs as opposed to improving and modernizing one
National Apprenticeship System
According to the Harvard Business Review, there are currently 47
occupations--26 of which commonly require a 4-year degree--that would
benefit from creating new apprenticeships but have required skills that
can be attained without one. This includes professions such as computer
support specialists.
And just as we must expand apprenticeships into new sectors, we
must expand into non-traditional demographics. Women make up nearly
half the U.S. work force, yet account for less than 10 percent of
apprentices.
I know through my conversations that there is strong bipartisan
support for apprenticeships. Last Congress, I joined with Mr. Guthrie
in introducing the Apprentice Act, which would have expanded
apprenticeship programs and awareness as well as created better
alignment between the Departments of Education and Labor.
There are a number of other good proposals we will consider, such
as expanding pre-apprenticeships and growing the number of
intermediaries who can assist small and medium sized businesses.
I want to thank the witnesses for traveling long distances to be
with us here today. I look forward to their testimony. I now yield to
the Ranking Member, Mr. Smucker, for the purpose of an opening
statement.
______
Mr. SMUCKER. Thank you, Madam Chair. Look forward to
working with you on this subcommittee, and thank you for
yielding.
All over the country we are beginning to see the perception
around skills-based education evolve. For far too long there
has been a stigma surrounding skills-based education. There was
a misconception that a baccalaureate degree was the only viable
path to a good job and a successful life. But as the national
skills gap of more than 7 million unfilled jobs has widened,
people have begun to wake up to the power of skills-based
education, like on the job learning, earn while you learn
programs, and apprenticeships. These programs are real ways to
give Americans the skills needed not only to build successful
careers, but also to empower them to improve their own lives.
We have seen a surge of interest in apprenticeships in
recent years, but this work force development tool has really
been around for centuries. Apprenticeship programs give
countless Americans the knowledge and skills they need to excel
in the millions of good paying, in demand jobs that are
available nationwide right now.
Nothing can prepare a student quite like on the job
experiences. Apprenticeships are a tried and true method of
setting students up for success. We know they work. We also
know that we are behind other countries regarding how broadly
apprenticeship programs can be applied. Take Switzerland, for
example. They have robust apprenticeship programs in over 230
industries.
This committee should evaluate, learn best practices, and
think about how we can expand our current apprenticeship
offerings. And when appropriate, we need to make sure that
government doesn't stand in the way of progress.
Last Congress this committee made historic progress
strengthening the work force development efforts. In July we
sent the Strengthening Career and Technical Education for the
21st Century Act to the President's desk and he signed it into
law. This was the first legislation in more than a decade to
modernize our Nation's CTU program. It promotes strong
engagement with employers, it connects students with on the job
learning opportunities like apprenticeships, which we know are
invaluable tools for success in the workplace and beyond.
The committee also passed the Prosper Act, the first ever
post-secondary reform legislation to make apprenticeships and
industry led earn while you learn programs a central component
of higher education learning. Committee members also oversaw
the implement of the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act,
or WIOA as we call it, which gives employers a seat at the
table and encourages collaboration between local leaders to
create on the job learning opportunities.
The Department of Labor's Registered Apprenticeship program
served half a million active apprenticeships last year. In
order for a business to participate in the Registered program
they must describe what activities apprentices will complete,
how much time will be spent on each activity, how the
apprentice will be supervised, set a schedule for wage
increases and affirmative action plan, among other conditions.
I have been a strong supporter of the administration's
actions to expand apprenticeship programs for all workers and
have been closely following the development of the IRAP system.
However, I am concerned that not all industries will be
eligible to participate under the administration's proposal. We
must not lose sight of the goal to reach all workers.
Private industry-led apprenticeship and learn and earn
programs account for more than 80 percent of all apprenticeship
programs around the country. Employers know what skills their
employees need to succeed in the workplace and we have seen
real innovation and results from highly customizable programs
for apprentices. We need to encourage business and community
leaders to continue to buildup their work force and help their
employees succeed.
This committee must continue working to make skills-based
education a valuable path for all Americans. This is a real way
that we can make an impact, have an impact on our work force,
our economy, and on the country.
I am really looking forward to hearing from today's
witnesses. Thank you for being here. Looking forward to hear
about all the ways that we can connect effective education with
jobs that are available today and promote apprenticeships to
build our work force and better our country.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
[The statement of Mr. Smucker follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Lloyd Smucker, Ranking Member, Subcommittee
on Higher Education and Workforce Investment
Thank you for yielding.
All over the country, we're beginning to see the perception around
skills-based education evolve. For far too long, there was a stigma
surrounding skills-based education. There was a misconception that a
baccalaureate degree was the only viable pathway to a good job and a
successful life. But as the national skills gap of more than seven
million unfilled jobs has widened, people have begun to wake up to the
power of skills-based education like on-the-job learning, earn-while
you-learn programs and apprenticeships. These programs are real ways to
give Americans the skills needed not only to build successful careers
but also to empower them to improve their own lives.
We've seen a surge of interest in apprenticeships in recent years
but this work force development tool has been around for centuries.
Apprenticeship programs give countless Americans the knowledge and
skills they need to excel in the millions of good-paying, in-demand
jobs available nationwide. Nothing can prepare a student quite like on-
the-job experience.
Apprenticeships are a tried-and-true method of setting students up
for success.
Last Congress, this committee made historic progress strengthening
our work force development efforts. In July, we sent the Strengthening
Career and Technical Education for the 21st Century Act to the
President's desk and he signed it into law. This was the first
legislation in more than a decade to modernize our Nation's CTE
program. It promotes strong engagement with employers and connects
students with on-the-job learning opportunities like apprenticeships,
which we know are invaluable tools for success in the workplace and
beyond.
This committee also passed the PROSPER Act, the first-ever
postsecondary reform legislation to make apprenticeships and industry-
led earn-while-you-learn programs a central component of higher
education learning.
Committee members also oversaw the implementation of the Workforce
Innovation and Opportunity Act (WIOA), which gives employers a seat at
the table and encourages collaboration between local leaders to create
on-the-job learning opportunities.
Private industry-led apprenticeship and earn-and-learn programs
account for more than 80 percent of all apprenticeship programs around
our country.
Employers know what skills their employees need to succeed in the
workplace and we've seen real innovation and results from highly
customizable programs for apprentices. We need to encourage business
and community leaders to continue to buildup their work force and help
their employees succeed.
The Department of Labor's Registered Apprenticeship program served
half a million active apprenticeships last year. In order for a
business to participate in the registered program, they must describe
what activities apprentices will complete, how much time will be spent
on each activity, how the apprentice will be supervised, set a schedule
for wage increases and an affirmative action plan, among other
conditions.
Registered apprenticeships and employer-led apprenticeships give
opportunities for workers to receive the training they need to get a
job and keep a job.
This committee must continue working to make skills-based education
a valuable path for all Americans this is a real way we can make an
impact on our work force, our economy and our country. I'm really
looking forward to hearing from today's witnesses and learning more all
the ways that we can connect effective education with in-demand jobs
and promote apprenticeships to build our work force and better our
country.
______
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Smucker. I
appreciate your statement.
And without objections, all members who wish to insert
written statement into the record may do so by submitting them
to the committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format
by 5 p.m. on April 10.
I am now pleased to recognize my colleague, Representative
Jayapal, to briefly introduce her constituent who is appearing
before us as a witness today.
Ms. JAYAPAL. Thank you so much, Madam Chair, and welcome to
all of you.
It is my great honor and privilege to introduce a
constituent of mine who is here. Jennifer Carlson serves as the
Executive Director of the Washington Technology Industry
Association Apprenti Program, the work force development arm of
the Association. Apprenti is focused on addressing the tech
industry's work force and diversity needs through a registered
technology apprenticeship program. It is the nationally
Registered U.S. DOL IT sector lead focused on filling the tech
industry's work force and diversity needs through Registered
Apprenticeships.
And I can't tell you how pleased I am that we get to lift
up the incredibly innovative work that you are doing right out
of Seattle that can serve as a model across the country.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you. I will now introduce the
remaining witnesses.
Mr. James Pavesic. Mr. Pavesic is the director of education
and training for the United Association of Pipe Trades. He also
serves as the chairman of the International Training Fund, the
president and chairman of the International Pipe Trades Joint
Training Committee and the co-chair of the UA Labor Management
Cooperation Fund.
Thank you for joining us.
Mr. Mark Hays is the vice chancellor of work force and
economic development for the Dallas County Community College
District. He leads the District's efforts in the development
and growth of apprenticeships in a variety of industry sectors
in the North Texas area.
Thank you for being with us.
And Bridget Grainer of Aon is the vice president of global
public affairs for Aon, which is using their Registered
Apprenticeship model to create a new talent pipeline for
building the company's work force. Ms. Grainer also played an
instrumental role in the creation of the Chicago Apprenticeship
Network.
Thank you so much as well for being here.
We appreciate all the witnesses and look forward to your
testimony.
I wanted to just remind you all that we have read your
written statements and they will appear in full in the hearing
record. Pursuant to Committee Rule 7d and committee practice,
each of you is asked to limit your oral presentation to a 5
minute summary of your written statement.
And I wanted to remind you as well that pursuant to Title
18 in the U.S. Code, Section 1001, it is illegal to knowingly
and willfully falsify any statement, representation, writing
document, or material fact presented to Congress or otherwise
conceal or cover up material fact.
Before you begin your testimony please remember to press
the button on the microphone in front of you so it will turn on
and the members can hear you. Very important to our
communication. As you begin to speak the light in front of you
will turn green and, after 4 minutes the light will turn yellow
to signal that you have 1 remaining minute. When the light
turns red your 5 minutes have expired and we hope that you will
wrap up as quickly as possible.
We will let the entire panel make their presentations
before we move to member questions. And when answering a
question, please remember to again turn your microphone on.
I think that covers everything.
So I first wanted to recognize Ms. Carlson. Please begin
and then we will go down the line.
Thank you.
STATEMENT OF JENNIFER CARLSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, APPRENTI
Ms. CARLSON. Thank you, Chairman Davis and Ranking Member
Smucker and thank you Representative Jayapal for the
introduction.
Just to give some context to the challenges in the IT
sector, there is a shortage of trained talent for technology
roles, both within the tech sector and other sectors that rely
heavily on technology to remain cutting edge. At the close of
2018 there were roughly 2.97 million tech job postings in the
U.S., however the country produces only 65,000 4-year computer
science degrees and 250,000 total related engineering degrees
annually. New graduates cannot fill these positions. And
coupled with an aging work force and forecasted tech growth,
this gap suggests a meaningful disconnect between supply and
demand.
As technologies evolve and automate, the skill level needed
to meet our requirements increases. Hiring middle skills tech
talent has become the greatest pain point for companies of all
sectors. More and more are recognizing that college degrees may
not be the best or only path to these middle skills jobs.
Apprenticeship represents a time-tested approach for
supplying companies with the talent they need and workers with
fulfilling careers and family sustaining wage.
Three years ago the WTIA conducted a study on diversity in
talent gaps in Washington State's tech sector. Based on the
outcomes of that study the WTIA decided to focus its efforts on
the Registered Apprenticeship pathway that could address
today's hiring needs in real time. A consortium of companies
with hiring needs across the country, including Microsoft,
Amazon, F5 Networks, Premera Blue Cross, Russell Investments,
and Accenture, evaluated several program design options and
determined that Registered Apprenticeship is the best secondary
talent development track to invest in. This is due to the
success of this model for the tech sector in other countries,
the rigor and consistency of the Registered model in the United
States, the certified completion of apprenticeship credential
provided by the U.S. DOL via established criteria by the
industry, and portability of the classroom training related to
tech certifications. The industry's strategy being that
Registered Apprenticeship creates the ability to accept
applicants with either a college degree or completion of
Registered Apprenticeship. Finally, per DOL regulations, the
requirement that apprenticeship is a job. This critical
requirement means that investment is made only in those with a
guaranteed employer sponsor willing to train that person for a
minimum 1-year term and employers are thus training to retain
this new talent into planned headcount.
These companies identified the most critical middle-skills
jobs, defined as jobs with potential for upward mobility and
traditionally would have required a college degree as the
highest impact area for apprenticeship. Since then Apprenti has
outlined and filed 13 middle-skills tech roles that it can fill
with diverse populations based on competency over pedigree.
After receiving the American Apprenticeship Initiative
grant from the U.S. DOL, Apprenti launched its first cohort of
apprentices in November 2016. It has since pushed to market
over 40 additional cohorts for over 400 apprentices across 11
States with 30 employers. And in 2019 we will see an additional
20 employers and 3 new States, totaling roughly 1,000
apprentices.
Apprenti's role as the sector's intermediary has grown to
meet industry's needs through screening and delivery of diverse
talent, identification of technical training resources on
behalf of employers, program compliance, apprentice
registration, and as the standards holder. This hybrid time and
competency-based Registered model straddles the high tech,
financial services, healthcare, and retail sectors for tech
jobs and is successfully delivering diversity with women and
minorities comprising 66 percent of our placements, and
veterans 64 percent of our placements.
We are seeing incredible outcomes. The program is
delivering value for apprentices and ROI for State and Federal
Governments. To date, apprentices have moved from a median
annual pre-program earnings of $29,000 with 22 percent
unemployed on entry to the program, to a median apprenticeship
earnings of $51,000 plus benefits and median retained earnings
on completion and final placement with the company of $75,000.
This reflects a 155 percent jump in earnings from pre to post-
apprenticeship in roughly 18 months. This improved lifetime
earnings also delivers more than $1 million per apprentice in
improved earnings. Early retention figures have been strong
with 84 percent completing apprenticeship being retained.
Our apprentices come from every walk of life, teachers,
Uber drivers, warehouse workers, pharmacy technicians and
return to work moms. Our youngest placed is 18, our eldest
placed is 63, and the median age is 32.
There are a number of things the Federal Government can do
to further stimulate adoption in conclusion. Companies invest
an average of $80,000 per apprentice in salary, benefits, and
partial tuition subsidy for these unproven candidates. The
technical training cost per apprentice is roughly $15,000 per
person. Congress can create Federal match funds that State
employers can tap into to augment the classroom training
expense.
Focusing additional Federal investment in scaling
successful programs like Apprenti can move tech from thousands
to tens of thousands of apprentices via appropriation of $1
million per market, and there is significant brand confusion
around the sector about the definition of what an
apprenticeship is. Codifying into law the current regulation
defining a Registered Apprenticeship would reduce brand
confusion, create clear guidelines around its use, and
establish accountability for using it in training subsidies.
Thank you and I will do my best to address any questions
you have.
[The statement of Ms. Carlson follows:]
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Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you very much. Please continue, Mr.
Pavesic.
STATEMENT OF JAMES G. PAVESIC, DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION AND
TRAINING, UNITED ASSOCIATION OF JOURNEYMEN AND APPRENTICES OF
THE PLUMBING, PIPEFITTING AND SPRINKLER FITTING INDUSTRY OF THE
UNITED STATES AND CANADA
Mr. PAVESIC. Good morning, Chairwoman Davis, Ranking Member
Smucker, and the members of the subcommittee. My name is James
Pavesic.
In addition to being a proud product of an apprenticeship
program, I am the director of education and training for the
United Association of Union Plumbers and Pipefitters, or UA for
short.
On behalf of the more than 350,000 members of the UA, I
want to thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
There are currently over 45,000 apprentices participating
in Registered Apprenticeship programs supported by the UA and
our International Training Fund. These programs provide
training covering the full range of UA crafts, including HVAC
technicians, plumbers, pipefitters, welders, and sprinkler
fitters.
In my view there are at least five attributes to a
successful apprenticeship program.
First, there needs to be successful partnerships. A
successful apprenticeship program is built on a partnership
between organized labor, signatory employers, government, and
more recently accrediting agencies, such as the Council on
Occupational Education, or COE. The UA and its signatory
employers are able to invest over $200 million each year on
apprenticeship and journeyperson training. Bear in mind that
these are all private sector dollars, so these investments come
at no cost to taxpayers.
All totaled, training programs sponsored by the UA and our
sister building trades unions provide the lion's share of the
training for the U.S. construction industry. UA apprenticeship
programs have always been a part of the Registered
Apprenticeship system and we believe very strongly in it.
UA programs also benefit from the accreditation process
conducted by the COE. The COE has accredited an increasing
number of UA programs which allows us to provide instructions
for which apprentices receive college credits.
The second attribute of a successful program is effective
recruitment. UA programs are committed to offering the benefit
of apprenticeship to all qualified applicants, including people
of color and women. The UA has also worked with the U.S.
military to train and place veterans in our programs through
our award-winning Veterans in Piping, or VIP program.
Under the VIP program the UA offers transitioning service
men and women the opportunity to participate in an intensive
18-week program on base where they receive cutting edge
training in one of our crafts at zero cost to the government,
the military, or the student. VIP graduates are then placed in
a local apprenticeship program with advanced credit and
guaranteed a job.
The VIP program currently operates on seven different
military installations and has provided apprenticeship
opportunities to nearly 2,000 military veterans to date.
One of our many appeals of the UA apprenticeship is the
opportunity for apprentices to earn a strong wage and benefit
package while they learn. To give you an example, pipefitter
apprentices in my home local, Local 597 in Chicago, currently
receive an average of $32.79 per hour, along with a high
quality health coverage, contributions to a 401(k), and other
benefits. Apprentices who complete the program today will earn
an hourly wage of $48.50 and begin receiving contributions to a
defined benefit pension plan on top of their 401(k). In
addition to receiving on the job instruction, apprentices
attend classes at one of the hundreds of state-of-the-art local
UA training schools across the country and have the chance to
earn college credits in the process.
Upon graduation they enter a growing industry with a
lifetime of skills and are in high demand and, unlike the
average college student, they come out of our program debt free
because the education they received comes at virtually no cost
to them.
Innovation is a third attribute of successful
apprenticeship program. UA apprenticeships partner with subject
matter experts, industry suppliers, and manufacturers to design
and implement training programs that are on the cutting edge of
new technologies.
A fourth attribute of a successful program is a team of
dedicated and talented instructors, which our organization is
fortunate to have in abundance.
Fifth, and finally, no apprenticeship program is successful
without a commitment to excellence. Everyone involved in the
program must be invested in the work of setting high standards
for the apprentice and then helping that apprentice achieve
them.
Anyone could call something an apprenticeship, but as I
hope I have been able to convey, building a successful program
requires a great deal more than that. In the UA's view, the
best way for Congress to make life changing apprenticeship
opportunities available to Americans is to support the programs
and invest the time and resources and commit the high standards
necessary to produce those apprenticeship opportunities.
I invite every member of this committee to see what this
looks like by visiting one of our training centers. It would be
our privilege to have you.
Thank you again for this opportunity.
[The statement of Mr. Pavesic follows:]
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Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you. Mr. Hays.
STATEMENT OF MARK HAYS, VICE CHANCELLOR OF WORKFORCE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, DALLAS COUNTY COMMUNITY COLLEGE DISTRICT
Mr. HAYS. Madam Chair, Ranking Member, and members of the
subcommittee, my name is Mark Hays and I serve as the vice
chancellor for Workforce and Economic Development for the
Dallas County Community College District in Dallas, Texas.
DCCCD consists of seven independently accredited colleges with
credit and non-credit enrollment exceeding 100,000 students. It
is the largest community college district in the State of Texas
and one of the largest in the Nation.
It is indeed an honor to be before you today to discuss how
DCCCD is engaging employers, students, community-based
organizations, and others to expand apprenticeships in North
Texas.
In my role as vice chancellor of Workforce and Economic
Development, I oversee a dedicated team of professionals who
work to expand apprenticeships in a variety of industry
sectors. We have made a commitment to our board of trustees for
DCCCD to be engaged with 50,000 apprentices by 2030. To date,
we are involved in 25 apprenticeship programs touching more
than 1,600 apprentices. Nearly 50 more companies have expressed
interest in both Registered and industry-recognized programs
and our team is working with these companies to get
apprenticeships off the ground and getting more North Texans
into middle class jobs. These apprenticeships encompass
construction, manufacturing, information technology, health
care, logistics, and aerospace.
We work with both private employers and organized labor to
create middle class jobs that provide a good living for workers
and a stable work force for businesses in North Texas. DCCCD's
involvement in these apprenticeship programs varies. The
District may simply be a pass-through entity for funds for some
apprenticeship programs, but is also more involved as an
intermediary, assisting employers with the establishment of new
apprenticeships and working with State and Federal officials in
assuring compliance with the law.
Our team works closely with employers, the U.S. Department
of Labor's Office of Apprenticeship, and the Texas Workforce
Commission to provide meaningful, competency-based
apprenticeships that are important in meeting work force
demands in the Dallas area.
A significant milestone occurred this past summer when
DCCCD, in partnership with RMS Aerospace, the Office of
Apprenticeship in Dallas, and the Texas Workforce Commission
worked together to create the Nation's first Registered
Apprenticeship in unmanned aerial systems. The first cohort is
underway and educating future UAS pilots for cutting-edge jobs
with a variety of North Texas employers. Apprentices will
receive three FAA licenses and one FCC certification when they
complete the program.
I often get the question, why is a community college
district so involved with apprenticeships. Well, my answer is
our job is to help workers earn more and companies to become
more profitable. Dallas is experiencing a conundrum. While
there are thousands of middle-class jobs going unfilled, the
poverty rate is the third highest in the Nation. Most of these
jobs require an associate degree or less, yet people who need
these jobs are not getting connected to them. Our DCCCD
Chancellor, Dr. Joe May, speaks about the higher education
network, where it is not about a single higher education
institution, but about creating a better, more efficient system
where communities and individuals thrive.
Many of the apprentices we work with are not enrolled in
our colleges as students. This effort is not about enrolling
more students in our colleges. We hope that at some point they
do enroll, but that is not the primary motivation here. We want
members of our community to obtain the skills necessary to
support their families and we want companies to have a stable
work force. If those apprenticeships involve college credit,
great. If not, well then that is okay too. The key is obtaining
the necessary skills to provide a good living and creating a
dynamic, skilled work force that helps our communities grow and
thrive.
The vast majority of apprenticeships DCCCD is involved with
are registered. We do have a small number that are industry
recognized apprenticeship programs and we fully anticipate
those types of apprenticeships expanding significantly once the
Department of Labor issues clear guidance on IRAPs.
DCCCD's goal is to meet employer needs, whether that be a
Registered Apprenticeship or an IRAP. Some employers are
hesitant to begin the process of a Registered Apprenticeship
because they feel it is not flexible enough to meet their
needs. They want a program that allows an apprentice to be
trained in multiple skill areas. At DCCCD we are all about
meeting the employer needs and look forward to dramatically
expanding IRAP programs in the future. Our team is prepared to
work with both Registered and IRAP apprenticeships, working
with employers, and Federal and State officials to make it
happen.
In closing, I would like to emphasize how critical the role
of the community college system is in moving apprenticeships to
the next level. While Registered Apprenticeships have been
around for decades, it is only recently that the community
college has begun to play a significant role. Community
colleges must continue to add and expand apprenticeships so
individuals and communities can thrive. We cannot allow
ourselves to be boxed in by excluding any type of program that
allows individuals to obtain the necessary skills to succeed
and businesses to grow.
Thank you for this opportunity today. I sincerely
appreciate your attention and your dedication to this effort.
[The statement of Mr. Hays follows:]
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Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you very much. Ms. Gainer.
STATEMENT OF BRIDGET GAINER, VICE PRESIDENT OF GLOBAL PUBLIC
AFFAIRS, AON
Ms. GAINER. Thank you very much. So good morning,
Chairwomen Davis, Foxx, and all the members of the committee.
Thank you for this opportunity to testify today about Aon's
Apprenticeship program and where it can take us in the future.
I am Bridget Gainer, vice president of Global Public
Affairs for Aon based in Chicago. Aon is the leading global
professional services firm providing a broad range of risk,
retirement and health solutions.
Now is an important time in work force policy and we are
encouraged that policymakers, academics, and employers are
recognizing the expanded role that apprenticeship can play in
continuing to develop the 21st century work force.
Every year, Aon surveys employers around the country about
the risks that they face in running their business. At the top
of the list, along with trade, cyber threats, and others is
work force and the ability to find the right talent to grow
your business.
The U.S. economy has been changing for a generation, with
the services sector and technology--industries where skills
evolve rapidly and there are few structured training programs--
taking up a larger and larger part of both GDP and employment.
But our work force policy has failed to keep pace.
Universities, employers, and individuals are often sitting in
silos without an effective mechanism to scale successes across
the country. These mechanisms do exist however. Apprenticeships
have long been successful in the skilled trades and give a road
map to effective recruitment, training and employment.
At Aon we have the benefit of a generation's worth of proof
that this return on investment works. Apprenticeships across
the economy, trades, services, retail, hospitality, are common
in Europe, especially in the UK. There is a long tradition of
students leaving high school and joining the insurance
industry, especially in London.
In London, as in Chicago, the motivation was to address a
specific constraint in the work force and, in this case, it was
retention and engagement, especially in entry level positions.
As we all know, the assumption that you will begin and end your
career at the same company is long gone. But the turnover rates
among certain entry level positions was of such a pace and
percentage that it called out for a solution. And we found it
within the ranks of our own employees. When we looked at the
roles that had higher attrition in the UK, we found that those
employees who had entered as an apprentices were much more
likely to stay at Aon longer and had higher engagement scores,
which is essentially a measurement of how you feel connected to
and happy with your job and your employer.
Engagement scores have a direct correlation to
productivity, as evidenced by a recent Gallup Poll. Over the
last 5 years, Gallup interviewed 2 million workers at 300,000
organizations and found that engagement was directly correlated
to productivity and profit.
So we know from the track record in the UK that
apprenticeships have both higher retention and engagement.
So from my office window at Aon in Chicago I can look down
Lake Street and see Harold Washington College, one of Chicago's
city colleges. And I am pleased that Mr. Hays mentioned the
role of city colleges because I think it is incredibly
important. Until 2 years ago Aon had never hired anyone from
city colleges. All our hires only came post 4 years of college.
But it was a missed opportunity for us. We were ignoring an
entire talent pipeline that was staring us in the face, but we
had no real way to bring them into the company.
So we brought together employers, worked on a curriculum,
created mentorship programs, but realized we could do so much
more, which became the base for the Aon apprenticeship program.
So I want to be really clear about this next point, our
apprenticeship program is not a social program. It must work
for the business. So we set out to build a business case to
replace some of our entry level positions with apprentices. The
first step was to determine which ones really required 4 years
of college, or where had we just gotten in the habit of hiring
from 4 years of college.
We looked closely at those jobs and found that many of them
had really high turnover, which is expensive and disruptive.
Because the role didn't require the degree, the new hire was
not staying in a job that didn't really demand it. But our H.R.
system required it because that is the way we always had done
it.
Over the last 3 years at Aon, we have hired 75 apprentices
in a 2-year program in IT, H.R. and our core insurance
business. They work 4 days a week at Aon, go to class at Harold
Washington, which is a city college in Chicago, on Fridays.
They are paid as full-time employees and receive the same
health and retirement as I do, as well as fully paid tuition.
Of the three classes of apprentices we have hired, 75 percent
of them are African-American or Latino, most are Chicago Public
School graduates, and all of them were working multiple jobs to
finance their life and school before coming to Aon.
Further our apprentice program is Registered in partnership
with the Department of Labor which signifies that our program
meets the standards and quality requirements for such programs.
Because of these efforts, these young people have a path to
a career not just a job. But that was just the beginning,
because I mentioned, the idea is good, but the scale is
essential.
We created the Chicago Apprentice Network to give employers
an opportunity to come together, learn about the program, and
eventually join. In our first year, 2017, us and Zurich had 50
apprentices. In 2018 there were 8 employers with 130
apprentices. And this year we have 23 employers with 425
apprentices across the city of Chicago, the goal being 1,000 by
the end of 2020.
This is a tremendous opportunity for our City, but this is
where we need your attention and leadership. In order to build
this new tranche of our work force we need to have a structured
program that has national standards. Registration is a big part
of that because our investment is high quality and we want it
returned to us.
To that end I would like to commend Congressman Lipinski,
Congressmen Rodney Davis, and Raja Krishnamoorthi, who just
introduced the Leap Act to further support apprenticeships.
I also have comments on city colleges, which were said by
Mr. Hays, but they are incredibly important to the ongoing work
of the apprentice programs.
Thank you for having me.
[The statement of Ms. Gainer follows:]
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Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you very much. Thank you to all of
you. Your testimony was very helpful.
We are going to move into our question session now under
the 5 minute rule. Everyone can ask a question and we will kind
of keep an eye on the clock for them as well. We will be
alternating between the parties.
I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
And my question to you really goes along with the testimony
of all of you. I mean we acknowledge that apprenticeships have
seemed to pique the interest of employers, of policymakers,
educators, new apprentices, and more. For the United States we
are certainly at a 20 year high for the average number of
people taking part in apprenticeships. And Congress has
continuously increased our appropriations for Registered
Apprenticeship programs with dedicated funding starting in
2016.
Ms. Carlson, according to your testimony, of course
Apprenti was created just 3 years ago.
Ms. CARLSON. Yes.
Chairwoman DAVIS. And has a great record in that 3 years.
And Ms. Gainer as well, really you--first apprentices started
in 2017. So it is happening at a time that we actually have low
unemployment and, you know, people might ask, so what is going
on now. Why now? Why is there interest and appetite across the
country to create and invest in and expand these apprenticeship
programs?
You have clearly outlined a lot of that in your statements.
I wanted you to just offer, if you could, what you think of the
reasons that you have heard, and even borrowing from one
another, what stands out the most, why now?
And we are going to move on and then talk about the role of
the Department of Labor as well.
Ms. Carlson, if you would like to start.
Ms. CARLSON. Certainly. I think if you are looking from the
tech sector, it is a combination of factors. There is this
significant talent gap that we outlined already, but you are
also dealing with a highly underemployed population in the
folks that we are looking at. If you look at the median income
coming in at $28,000. It turns out in a very blind way--we
don't ask for educational attainment coming into our program--
but we only know that based on apprentices that 52 percent of
them have a college degree. And if the median age is 32, that
means they came out at the bottom of the economy, and based on
that income have been largely in service level and entry level
positions and incapable of moving up.
So this creates an alternative pathway for them to get
reeducated into a much higher living wage and serve the tech
sector as well without having to go back to college and start
over.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Great. Mr. Pavesic.
Mr. PAVESIC. Well, I don't believe that the interest in
apprenticeships really correlate with unemployment, because
apprenticeship is not about filling jobs today or tomorrow, but
it is really about getting a career and having that career and
having those lifetime skills and being a productive member of
society and being able to raise a family and send your children
to college.
These are highly skilled jobs. It is a viable chance for
them to, you know, let us say even avoid college debt. You
know, let us face it, college debt is a huge problem in this
country. And for an individual to be able to attend an
apprenticeship at little to no cost to them and come out with a
job that pays just as well as a college education, is a
wonderful thing.
The other part of it too is that as some of these
apprenticeships show, they can earn college degrees. It is a
different path to a college degree post-secondary education.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you. Go ahead and, just quickly as
you can. I know it is hard. What else would you like to
emphasize?
Mr. HAYS. Yes, Madam Chair. I think it comes down a lot to
the labor economics. Employers are looking for employees. They
are not only looking for them, but how do they retain these
employees. And, you know, we all know that there are more job
openings than there are workers to fill them now, so in some
sense it is a desperation among some employers to try to find
workers to fill those needs.
So I have always said, if you keep doing the same thing you
have always done, you are going to keep getting what you have
always got. So employers are starting to look at
apprenticeships in a whole new light now as a way to fill labor
force needs.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you, Ms. Gainer.
Ms. GAINER. Yes, just quickly. Look, the pendulum has
shifted. A generation ago a lot of people didn't go to college
and they had perfectly good career jobs. It swung way over to
college and I think what we are seeing now is the weaknesses in
that system. So you have high cost of college, you have this
high turnover rate. You know, candidly, millennials need a lot
more engagement to stay happy at work. And this was an issue.
So I think engagement, retention, and the pressures of high
cost of college.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Great. Thank you so much. I wanted to ask
you all about what role you think that the Department of Labor
should be playing in relation to apprenticeship programs.
Maybe just from you Ms. Gainer, sort of high, medium, low?
What do you think?
Ms. GAINER. Yes. I think that they--look, as an employer
perspective, the role of the Federal Government is to set
standards. We do not take one dollar of Federal money, nor have
we ever sought, and neither do any of the employers that are in
our network.
Having said that, it is not a--I don't want to be in the
position of creating a set of standards for other people to
follow, but I do want to know that if we have invested 2 years
in training someone to be an IT analyst that they should be
able to go to another company and be an IT analyst, just like
you can be a plumber or you can be something else. It should be
portable in the marketplace because to invest in the work force
is ultimately better for the entire country.
That is not the job of the employers to set national
standards, however they need to be high quality and set across
the country.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you, thank you. And perhaps someone
else will pick up and will get into this role as well.
I want to now recognize the ranking member, but instead we
have the ranking chairwoman of the Education & Workforce
Committee, and so I am delighted to turn to Ms. Foxx.
Mrs. FOXX. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. And I want
to thank our witnesses for being here.
The Chairwoman has had a great interest in this for a long,
long time, as have I. And I am very glad that we are having
this hearing today.
Mr. Hays, I am encouraged to hear you say preparing the
individuals for the work force should not be about one type of
education, degree, or institution. I have tried to champion the
idea that all education is career education.
Can you tell me more about how that type of flexibility
benefits your community and the people that come through your
programs?
Mr. HAYS. Absolutely. Congresswoman, it is a matter of--we
don't want to put people in a box. We know that people learn
different ways, people pick up skills different ways. We want
that flexibility to be there so that these individuals can
obtain the skills they need in order to provide for themselves
and their families.
And so if that is Registered Apprenticeships, great, if it
is IRAPs, great, if it is a traditional college degree,
outstanding. We want to be able to have that flexibility in our
community to give people the choices that they can make to
better support themselves and their families.
Mrs. FOXX. Great. Thank you.
Mr. Hays, every day I hear from employers they need skilled
workers. We have talked about that; most of you have.
Registered Apprenticeship programs are a great way for workers
to earn while they learn a skilled trade. However, many
employers, as you have all--I think most of you have said that
the process can seem overly burdensome to employers and may
ultimately not give the company the flexibility it needs.
What are some of the concerns you have heard from employers
when it comes to Registered Apprenticeship programs?
Mr. HAYS. I think there are two main concerns from our
employer community. One is the length of time it takes to get a
Registered Apprenticeship program off the ground. And the
second one, to some extent there is a lack of flexibility of
trying to learn multiple skills. Sometimes they feel like they
are put in a box on the skills that they have to--for the
apprentices to learn. They would like to have more flexibility
to expand the skills of that apprentice.
Mrs. FOXX. You mentioned in your comments something that
you don't usually hear from somebody associated with a
community college, and that is whether the students receive
college credit or not is not the big issue that you all are
concerned with. And I applaud you for saying that.
But how many of your programs, if any, have college credit
built into them and do you expect that to be more of a focus in
the future? Because I assume you are funded on FTE by the state
and that you would be funded under continuing education
differently than you are for curriculum.
Mr. HAYS. Yes. So there are a couple of programs where the
apprentices get college credit. What we look at as a community
college system is how can we be more innovative in this area.
It could be a situation of prior learning credit, where an
apprentice gets through a program and then we come back on the
back end and say that we can award the apprentice college
credit for this instead of, you know, working through the state
system to try to get new programs established. That can take
anywhere from a year and a half to 2 years. Employers don't
want to wait that long, apprentices don't want to wait that
long. How can we as a community college system possibly come
back on the back end and award that credit once the apprentice
is well established or through with the program.
Mrs. FOXX. Well, that is a very innovative way to think
about it because obviously the college has that opportunity to
do it, particularly if you are the ones who are designing the
programs, then you know what is in those programs and they
could be very similar to what you have in curriculum. Is that
correct?
Mr. Hays. Yes, ma'am. Very much so. And a lot of this too,
we listen to the employers, you know, what is it you need, what
kind of skills do you need these apprentices to have. And
making sure that rigor is sustained and that as a community
college system, how can we help grease the skids, move this
process along. And then if the apprentice or the employer
chooses later on for that apprentice to have college credit,
then how can we make that as painless as possible and get it
done quickly.
Mrs. FOXX. And one more question, you don't have to answer
it all now, we can get it from you later, but are you keeping
records on the number of students who might continue at Dallas
Community College or other Texas colleges to earn degrees?
Because one of our big concerns these days is completion of
programs. And so I hope you are keeping some records on this so
you will know how many go on.
Mr. HAYS. Yes, ma'am. Yes, correct.
Mrs. FOXX. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you very much. Ms. Jayapal.
Ms. JAYAPAL. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you again
for your very interesting testimony.
This is a topic of great interest to me. When I was in the
state Senate we worked with labor unions, community colleges,
and nonprofit organizations to put together a very successful
pre-apprenticeship program with millions of dollars. It was a
bipartisan program that I led and we had incredible retention
and graduation rates in just 2 years. Iron workers actually did
a fantastic job of really reaching out to formerly incarcerated
and minorities.
So I appreciate very much the work that you have done.
Ms. Carlson, your testimony described stark gender
disparities in Registered Apprenticeships in Washington State.
Through December 2018 there were about 19,220 Registered
Apprenticeships in the state, of which only 10 percent were
women and about 7 percent of apprentices were women at the
Federal level.
How does this contribute to broader gender wage gaps in the
industry?
Ms. CARLSON. Well, I think that hiring and cost disparity
and how we compensate people in the tech sector is well
documented unfortunately. The significant advantage on the
Registered Apprenticeship side is that doesn't exist. What we
establish as a wage per occupation with each company, and it is
company driven at that level, is what all apprentices in that
role get paid. And so there is no wage disparity walking in the
door.
And we have established a system for communicating with the
companies also on retention where we identified a couple of
companies, one in particular, that retained their male
apprentices at a slightly higher wage, not at the significant
gap we have seen historically, than the female. And we brought
that to their attention and they leveled that.
Ms. JAYAPAL. Thank you. And today we will pass the Paycheck
Fairness Bill on the House floor under Democratic control.
So you also mentioned that Apprenti aims for 70 percent of
its participants to be women, people of color, and/or veterans.
I am interested in how you target these groups in particular. I
would add rural communities to this as well, because I think
there is a particular challenge with getting jobs into rural
communities.
And if any of the others of you would like to respond
briefly to that as well I would be interested.
You want to start, Ms. Carlson?
Ms. CARLSON. Certainly. So far our success in attracting
diversity has been strong. We have 84 percent of our applicants
in women underrepresented minorities and veterans. And the way
we have defined that very specifically are African American,
Hispanic, mixed race, Native American, Pacific Islander,
basically to the exclusion at an EEO level of Asian and Indian
because that isn't underrepresented in the tech sector
specifically.
The composition, 64 percent underrepresented women, 66
percent veteran. Composite is 84 percent. So we are well above
the 70 percent that we intended to place and continue to manage
to that level.
Ms. JAYAPAL. And if anyone else wants to add to this, I am
interested in what strategies you used to do that. What makes
you effective at getting that kind of diversity?
Ms. CARLSON. I think it was about the outreach and how we
structured the program from the get-go. It was about how we
targeted organizations that work with those underrepresented
groups from working on base for recruitment to community
college system to NPOs, nonprofit organizations, serving those
groups.
Ms. JAYAPAL. Anyone else want to add to that? Ms. Gainer?
Ms. GAINER. I think it is intentional recruitment and I
think it is also creating a support system.
So we partnered with an organization called One Million
Degrees that meets with the students when they go to school on
Fridays. They meet with a manager of the--One Million Degrees
meets with the manager, they meet with the students. I mean,
look, we always tell these guys, your boss is not your mom. You
have to kind of figure out a way to navigate your workplace. So
realizing that this is someone's first entry into work and
supporting them has been helpful.
Ms. JAYAPAL. That is really what we found too. Those
nonprofit organizations can do that particularly well, so those
partnerships are important.
Finally, I am deeply concerned about the Trump
Administration's effort to replace Registered Apprenticeship
programs with so called industry-recognized apprenticeship
programs which do lack government oversight and protections for
potential conflicts of interest and the welfare of apprentices.
Mr. Hays mentioned that in his experience employers are
hesitant to begin the process of a Registered Apprenticeship
because they feel it is not flexible enough to meet their needs
and they want a program that allows an apprentice to be trained
in multiple skill areas.
And I am just curious, Ms. Carlson, has that been your
experience at Apprenti, and what would you say in response to
that?
Ms. CARLSON. It has not been our experience thus far. And
we are working now in 11 states and the consensus of the
companies we worth with has been that they want a single
standardized system, an ecosystem if you will, of Registered
Apprenticeship to define the roles, because the roles are not
dissimilar from one sector to the next with regard to
technology, and that portability of the skill set is what it is
most important or paramount to our ability to scale this
operation, and that will actually provide the outcomes the
companies are looking for to fill the skill gap.
Secondarily, they have had extraordinary flexibility in
creating the tech talent, the training, the classroom portion
of training, to meet that employer's specific needs. And we
actually work with the Dallas Community College system to
deliver that on behalf of AWS, Amazon Web Services, and have
scaled it exactly to their needs, very differently than we
scale Microsoft's training needs, but to the same platform of
skill sets required.
Ms. JAYAPAL. Thank you so much.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Ms. JAYAPAL. And, Madam Chair, if I might ask for unanimous
consent to introduce into the record a progress report for the
Pre-apprenticeship Support Services program that I mentioned at
the Washington State Department of Transportation.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you. So ordered.
Ms. JAYAPAL. Thank you.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Mr. Watkins.
Mr. WATKINS. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you Ranking
Member Foxx.
Mr. Hays, this question will be for you. A majority of my
constituents are enjoying record low unemployment. The Bureau
of Labor Statistics says that in February the unemployment rate
in Kansas, it is the lowest it has been in 10 years. It is 3.4
percent. We believe that this is in part because of common
sense pro-growth policies like low taxes and low regulation.
With such a demand for skilled labor, it seems like we
should be focusing more on all types of apprenticeship and work
force development programs, not just the Department of Labor
Registered programs.
What are your comments on that and what kind of work force
development policies do you think we should consider here in
Congress?
Mr. HAYS. Well, as I have mentioned, Congressman, I think
it is important that we have a variety of programs from the
standpoint of the community college district that we can work
with employers on.
If those are Registered Apprenticeships, that is great, if
they are IRAPs, outstanding for us as well. If it is credit
programs, certificate programs, we are there to move agilely to
meet employer needs. We want to be able to help those
employers.
In Dallas about 60 percent of our funding as a community
college district comes from ad valorum taxes and 60 percent of
those taxes are paid by businesses. We are in the business of
helping our businesses to succeed. And when we help our
businesses succeed that means they will hire students or they
will hire apprentices and make those programs work.
As far as policies go, the thing that we ask for is
basically we want to maintain rigor in all of our programs,
whether it be apprenticeship programs, academic programs,
whatever the case may be. We feel that employers are giving us
great feedback, and they say why would we want to train people
for jobs that we have in our business and those people not be
trained to the utmost of the skills that they can get.
So we hear both sides of this and we work the Registered
programs, the IRAP programs. We also work the traditional
college programs as well to meet employer needs.
Mr. WATKINS. Thank you, Mr. Hays.
Madam chair, I yield my time.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Watkins.
Mr. Harder.
Mr. HARDER. Thank you so much for being here. This is such
an important issue and I am really excited to have the chance
to have this conversation.
Ms. Carlson, in your testimony you state that our Nation is
facing a tech talent crisis. And you said in 2018 there was
about close to 3 million tech jobs left unfilled in the U.S.
did I get that right?
Ms. CARLSON. Correct.
Mr. HARDER. A lot of those jobs are in San Francisco and
Silicon Valley, only 90 miles away from my district, and a lot
of folks in my community commute 3-4 hours both ways, round
trip every single day to have that. And we have a lot of
talent, we just need to make sure that we are creating a better
pipeline and a better educational system in some of those jobs.
Given this enormous demand, enormous demand of some of
these opportunities, do you know the percentage of combined 4-
year computer science and engineering degrees that we are
graduating every year?
Ms. CARLSON. I do, 65,000 computer science degrees and
250,000 related STEM engineering degrees to computer science.
Mr. HARDER. Got it. So let us take the big number there,
250,000--
Ms. CARLSON. Right.
Mr. HARDER [continuing]. compared to 3 million job
openings.
Ms. CARLSON. Right.
Mr. HARDER. So I think we can all agree that we are not
going to solve the tech talent crisis just by graduating more
people from a 4 year degree.
Ms. CARLSON. And there is no capacity.
Mr. HARDER. Exactly. And I think that is especially
resonant in a community like mine, where 84 percent of my
residents don't have a 4-year college degree. And I think if we
tell people that the only route to the middle class, the only
route to solve some of these jobs that our employers need to
fill is through a 4-year college degree, we are really doing a
deep disservice to a lot of folks.
So that is the demand side, but let us talk about the
supply side. So on the supply side, the Federal Government
today spends about a billion dollars, $1.2 billion on
vocational programs. Do you know the ratio of how much we spend
for vocational programs versus higher education?
Ms. CARLSON. I do not.
Mr. HARDER. So we did the math, we tried to add it all up.
There are a lot of different programs there. But what I think
is I think we spend about $80 billion on the Federal level for
higher education, PELL grants, subsidized levels, all the rest,
and that we still have a crisis on how we actually can make
college more affordable, so we probably need to be doing a
better job there. But even at our current level, we say that
this is an important priority and we are spending 80 times more
on higher education than we are on vocational training. We need
to do a much better job of increasing funding for both higher
education and for our apprenticeship programs.
What do you think we can be doing? Like if we actually did
a real good job of emphasizing the funding around a vocational
training program and made it commensurate to the amount of
talking and lip service that we give it, what could we be doing
better to make sure we are connecting that gap?
Ms. CARLSON. Well, I think there are two things, at least
with regard to our sector when I speak of tech. One is we don't
have the rich 80-year history yet that our brothers in the
trades have. And we don't have the same level of company
engagement with regards to paying for the classroom portion of
training for unproven quantities at this point. We have a lot
of appetite and interest and swirl in the corporate side to
understand what this could mean in creating new talent.
We have worked very closely with the state of California,
amongst others, to create public-private partnerships to
underwrite some of that training cost. But creating a sustained
national funding mechanism that companies can tap into while we
grow into this idea of taking people from nontraditional
sectors, would be significant.
And just to run a couple of quick numbers, if we put $100
million into a national training fund on a match basis for
companies or states to tap into, that would fund on a partial
basis, 50 percent. Roughly 13,000 apprentices with that $50,000
earnings delta in the tech sector, going from $29,000 to
$79,000 in earnings from pre-apprenticeship to post-
apprenticeship. That would net $650 million in improved income
just in the first year, or $13 billion lifetime. That would be
a meaningful ROI on that $100 million a year investment that
the government could make.
Mr. HARDER. Yes, yes. I really see there as being two
challenges here. One is this huge imbalance between supply and
demand that we have talked about and the lack of real Federal
focus to solve this problem.
But the second is what you highlighted, which is the fact
that we now have our entire apprenticeship program in America
governed by an Act that Congress passed in 1937. And I don't
think there were a lot of tech jobs that were really in 1937.
Maybe some weird stuff.
So that is what we need to be doing and I am really excited
to have the opportunity to talk about this. And we will look
forward to working with you and hopefully getting some stuff
across the finish line.
I yield back by time.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you very much.
Mr. WALKER. Thank you, madam Chair. I would have to take
just a moment to applaud the Simmons family, machine
specialists back in my district there who have really created
the best apprentice program that I have seen and would at some
point maybe like to enter some of their work into the record.
Mr. Hays, when it comes to the Federal Government being
involved in some of these apprenticeships, how do you feel
like--if you were grading this, giving the Federal Government a
grade trying to partner with a small business, where are we
right now? Can you speak to that?
Mr. HAYS. Well, I can speak to the experience we have had
with the Office of Apprenticeship in Dallas, in the DUO
regional office there. They have been fantastic to work with.
They are understaffed, they have great knowledge of
apprenticeship programs, we consider them a critical partner,
along with employers and organized labor in all of our
apprenticeship programs.
Grading the system as a whole, it is tough to say because
it can vary in different parts of the country.
Mr. WALKER. Okay. Let me move forward. You have given me a
good synopsis there.
Can you describe this typical student that participates in
one of your apprenticeship programs? Can you build me a little
profile here?
Mr. HAYS. Yes, again it is hard to build a profile, but
most of the apprentices basically are in their early 20's, but
however in our unmanned aerial system programs we have
individuals anywhere from early 20's--one individual that is in
his early 60's that is in that program. So we see that this is
a--we are kind of plowing new ground in North Texas in this
area. So it is something we are going to see I think a lot more
interest in.
Mr. WALKER. And would you say the impact of these
apprenticeship programs--how would you describe that? I don't
want to lead you too far, but give me just a quick word on
that.
Mr. HAYS. Well, I think the impact right now is growing and
as we said, we want 50,000 apprentices by 2030 in Dallas and we
think that will be a substantial economic impact and that will
continue to grow every year.
Mr. WALKER. I appreciate that. What would say some of the
concerns of the small businesses are regarding compliance with
the requirements of these Registered Apprenticeships?
Mr. HAYS. I think there is some trepidation in the fact
that they just don't know. There has to be some education
involved there, not only from us but from the Department of
Labor. Other businesses who are participating in apprenticeship
programs now are great resources. Businesses talking to
businesses helps a lot and helps alleviate a lot of those
fears.
Mr. WALKER. Sure. I think you mentioned about small
businesses in your testimony seeking additional flexibility.
Can you expand for just a second on that lack of flexibility?
Mr. HAYS. It is a common perception among the businesses
that if I train an individual in a Registered program with one
set of skills then I am locked into that one set of skills. A
lot of that is education on our part, how we can help
individuals look at apprenticeship programs that are best for
them. They want employees that have a multiple tool box full of
skills that they can use. And some look at the Registered
programs and say that works, others look at the IRAPs and say
that is what we would like to have.
Mr. WALKER. How would IRAP or other industry-based programs
address that issue?
Mr. HAYS. I think the perception is it gives the employers
more flexibility to help individuals with multiple skill sets,
gives them the freedom that they can do some things, that maybe
they couldn't do under Registered programs. And so they look at
those with a very keen eye because they think those programs
could work for them.
Mr. WALKER. I was meeting recently with an organization
called Pike Energy and meeting with the CEO and I was impressed
to talk about what they are trying to do, and that within 5
years pretty much anybody can be trained and be making 6
figures a year.
The problem is, with Pike Energy and dozens and dozens, if
not 100 companies I have talked to in North Carolina, they
can't seem to find someone to be able to even start these
programs. So maybe this a question to you, and anybody else who
wants to weigh in my final minute here, at what age range--and
maybe if you have any experience--at what age range should we
be identifying some of these skill sets as far as trying to
match them up to some of the industry that we see out there?
Mr. HAYS. Well personally, I think pre-apprenticeship
programs are great in this area because it gets students
exposed at an early age to those areas. And I think that the
earlier the better. Letting people know about occupations, pre-
apprenticeship programs are great, whether it be at the high
school level and getting people prepared for a full-blown
apprenticeship program, whether it be Registered or an IRAP
program.
Mr. WALKER. I would like to followup some more, but I have
got about 17 seconds left, so with that I will yield back,
Madam Chair.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Mr. Levin.
Mr. LEVIN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you so much
for convening this hearing. This is a very important topic. I
am a huge champion of apprenticeships.
And I want to just pick up where the gentleman just left
off with pre-apprenticeship programs. When I was running the
work force system in Michigan we worked with the Registered
Apprenticeship programs, such as Mr. Pavesic represents here,
and created pre-apprenticeship programs from high school on--
you know, college, dislocated workers, whoever, could enter
them. And we got people ready to meet the rigorous standards of
the Registered Apprenticeship programs. Road construction
apprenticeship readiness was the first one we did. And we had
paid programs where people got training, got tools, and a lot
of them were people from disadvantaged communities. You know,
it is something that is very good.
You know, I think that Registered Apprenticeships can and
should expand into new industries, occupations, and populations
as one of many solutions to address the need for more high-
quality pathways to the middle class and beyond.
Registered Apprenticeships have consistently proven to be
worthwhile investments, with 91 percent of apprentices employed
after completing their apprenticeships, earning an average
starting wage above $60,000 annually.
I am troubled by the Trump Administration's efforts to
expand unregistered apprenticeship programs which are not
accountable for meeting quality standards or ensuring the
success of apprentices. I strongly support innovation and
expansion of our Registered Apprenticeships into new
occupations, but I will not compromise on the quality and
accountability of these programs.
I extend my hand to Republican colleagues who want to work
with us on expanding high-quality Registered Apprenticeships
that would benefit both employers and employees.
Ms. Gainer, I have concerns with the confusion that having
two apprenticeships systems under the same name with very
different levels of quality and accountability will add for
employers and prospective participants. Do you share those
concerns?
Ms. GAINER. You know, I think the key thing is employers
really want to focus on running their business and they want to
hire people and they want them to be trained and they want a
credential like a 4-year degree to mean something. So if you
went to a college in North Carolina, it is the same as if you
went to a college in Indiana, and you can do that. I think one
set of standards means that we are much more likely to make the
improvements in the work force policy that we are talking
about.
What is going to happen is no one is going to lead a
protest to your door to tell you it doesn't work. They are just
not going to do it because it is too complicated. And no one
wants to spend a bunch of time navigating whether or not this
thing makes any sense. We already know that the registration
process creates a system in which someone is trained to a do a
job and they can do the job. I doubt anyone is--large employers
are going to spend a lot of time trying to learn a whole new
system. You just may get people not participating.
Mr. LEVIN. So you want certainty and clarity about the
standards essentially from the employer--
Ms. GAINER. Yes. We are making a substantial investment and
we would like it to mean something.
Mr. LEVIN. Absolutely. And I appreciate your earlier
comments about portability being so important for you. And it
is really a contribution the employers make. They build their
own work team and they build it across their whole industry.
Mr. Pavesic, you know, people talk about this program as
being restricted to union workplaces. Some say Registered
Apprenticeships are only for traditional trades and that unions
receive preferential treatment from the U.S. Department of
Labor for their programs.
From your experience, do these claims seem to be accurate?
Mr. PAVESIC. Well, you know, I heard it said, and Ranking
Member Smucker mentioned the amount of apprenticeships in
Europe and how far ahead Europe is the United States. And I
would say that, you know, a Registered Apprenticeship--and we
have talked here today about Registered Apprenticeships and the
amount of effort that goes into a Registered Apprenticeship,
the thing is, if something is easy, is it really worthwhile?
You know, we shouldn't water down apprenticeships just so that
we can increase the numbers of apprentices in this country.
Registered Apprenticeships have stood the test of time. The
building trades are definitely, you know, a source of that to
be able to see that, but I just don't see where if we water
down apprenticeships and create those numbers--and, you know,
we talk about filling jobs, we want to make sure that
individuals are trained so that when unemployment goes up that
they have the skills to be able to find a job and not just be
able to have that one job and then when that job is gone then
they no longer have the skills to find another.
Mr. LEVIN. Thank you. Madam Chairwoman, as my time expires,
I wanted to tell you I was at the Bricklayers Local 2 training
center in my district in Warren, Michigan late last week and
they have 30 and 40 people coming into wave after wave of
apprenticeship training programs, a rainbow of people, all
ages, from all races and nationalities. And they can't train
enough people. It is a fantastic job, you know, starting
$60,000 and above. So this is a really important area for our
workers.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Mr. LEVIN. And I really appreciate your interest in it.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
I am going to turn to Mr. Meuser.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you very much to
all of you for being here with us today. This is a very
important discussion, one of which is quite topical in my
district, in Pennsylvania, and I am sure most districts
throughout the country. I appreciate your expertise.
And I have spent much time visiting career and technical
schools throughout my district, including career and tech
centers in Lebanon County, Carbon County, and Schuylkill
County. Just yesterday I met with directors from Berks Career
and Technology Center, sharing ideas on how we can improve this
climate of skill and career development for people of all ages.
We also have in my district some high schools, including
Central Columbia High School, that has an outstanding career
development program.
So it is quite topical to have this sort of initiative for
the work forces that are available. And so as we fulfill the
many jobs that are also available and going unfilled.
So, Mr. Hays, I know you understand the importance of
making sure we are educating students a way that the lines--
with the unique needs of employers in our communities. So I ask
you, as you are doing an excellent job with your community
college, creating opportunities for industries within your
area, can you talk about how other school districts can
replicate some of your best practices?
Mr. HAYS. Well, I think that a lot of it was we just
decided to jump in and learn. And mistakes were made along the
way, and we will make more mistakes I am sure. But as we gather
this expertise it is all about listening and listening to the
workers, listening to the employers--that is key--and what are
their needs.
So, you know, our--basically what we do is we serve as an
intermediary in a lot of ways. If an employer says I need
people trained in these skills or I need people trained in
those skills, then we try to solve the problem. How do we help
the employer meet those skill shortages, how do we connect
Dallas County residents with those opportunities, how do we get
into the high schools to let students know that those
opportunities are available? You know, we have a lot of our
students--our average age in our college is about 26. A lot of
those are individuals they may have a child or two. And when
you're going with the traditional higher ed speak and saying
well in 2 years you could be doing this or 4 years you could be
doing this and said no, what can I do in 2 weeks or 2 months, I
have got kids to feed, how can I move ahead. So a lot of times
apprenticeships are a great avenue for them if they don't have
the time, the luxury of time to spread out a 2-or 4-year
program for a college degree. Get into apprenticeships, start
making some money right now. And then if they want to look at
college hours down the road, great, we will help them with that
too.
Mr. MEUSER. Okay. Are you finding employers difficult to
gain to be part of this and for them to embrace that this is a
great way of fulfilling their job?
Mr. HAYS. It is a lot easier than it used to be. And as I
mentioned earlier, I think a lot of that is due just to the
fact of labor force shortages. The workers just aren't there
that they need. So they are looking at new ways, innovative
ways that they can come in and try to attract workers and
retain those workers.
And so it is the conversations that we are having where
employers are much more open to hearing about apprenticeships
and other innovative methods to put people to work to meet
their labor force needs.
Mr. MEUSER. Okay. But do you find that a challenge,
training young people, or anyone, for a new career, developing
new skills is certainly one part of it, the fulfillment, but
making sure that those who have the demand are aware of what
endeavors that you are and what you are offering? Is that more
of a challenge than the--
Mr. HAYS. It is a challenge simply because of the scale of
Dallas and the Dallas-Fort Worth area of how large it is. We
try to reach out to as many employers as we can, but we are
still hitting just a drop in the bucket with the number of
employers that we do have.
But we want to get that word out as quickly as we can to as
many employers as we can to let them know that there are
options available to them.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you. Madam Chair, I yield. Thank you.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Ms. Trahan.
Ms. TRAHAN. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank you for
holding this important hearing and for the witnesses for taking
the time to join with us this morning.
In Massachusetts our Republican Governor has launched a new
initiative to expand Registered Apprenticeships. And much of
what we have heard today I am proud to report we are already
doing in the Bay State.
The Governor's apprenticeship expansion plan was launched
last summer to fill pipelines of mature industries, but also to
grow into new economic sectors as well. And in just over a year
we have added over 100 new apprentices in manufacturing, we
have new programs in healthcare, and our first apprenticeship
program for software developers will be launching in April.
Ms. Carlson, thank you for testifying today. You have had a
great success. Apprenti is clearly filling an important role in
meeting the demands of today's tech job market. And three words
from your testimony jumped out at me, competency over pedigree.
I agree with you, we need to embrace more pathways for our
young people to get a good job at a good wage, particularly as
college prices continue to rise. However, in a tightening job
market a bachelor's degree or higher seems to be a
prerequisite, even if the job doesn't necessarily require it.
Dr. Noemi Custodia-Lora, who is an assistant dean at
Northern Essex Community College, and our president there, Dr.
Lane Glenn, recently wrote a paper titled ``Revaluing the
Associate's Degree to Remedy the Skills Gap''. The upshot was
although many employers can require a bachelor's degree or
higher for a particular middle skills job, it doesn't mean that
they should or need to do so. The associate degree can be
sufficient.
Your testimony was in a similar vein, but for Registered
Apprenticeships. I have no quarrel at all with those who value
a bachelor's degree. I was the first in my family to graduate
and it was life changing for me.
This committee recently reported that a bachelor's degree
holder will earn 167 percent more than what a high school
graduate would earn, but a bachelor's degree isn't always the
best option and we need to, as you say, value competency over
pedigree.
What has been the reception from Washington's Technology
Industry Associations' membership or other companies as
Apprenti has expanded into I think more than 11 states now,
when you have argued for apprenticeships filling roles that had
been traditionally reserved for those with a bachelor's degree?
Ms. CARLSON. Well, I think the pain point for employers is
finally at a fever pitch. You know, there are a combination of
factors. The mantra has become poaching in order to get the
talent that they need, which is driving company P&Ls up
significantly on their tech talent. And so this is an
opportunity for them to sort of change their direction and be
willing to become training entities, to develop the talent that
they need, and create the long-term sustainable platform for
training talent that the country needs on a portable basis.
The companies that are working with us have gone very
publicly on record as needing to work on more of a culture
change in the tech sector around training. And so the first 40-
50 companies that are at the table, very large and very small
companies both, are working on that front to do exactly that.
Ms. TRAHAN. Do you have lessons for us, certainly making
the case for Registered Apprenticeships to employers, but as
you so eloquently said, culture change. How do we accelerate
that culture change?
Ms. CARLSON. Well, again, I think it is about the pain
point. Companies have recognized it and they understand it.
They are looking for the right solution. And I think that my
colleague here at the other end of the table very eloquently
put it herself that this is about investing in a system that we
expect to be sustainable and portable and that we wouldn't do
this at a company level if we didn't see that support from the
government level to create such a program.
Now, it is a birds of a feather flock together mentality.
So, you know, each company is looking to see who else has gone
before them and how successful that has been. And we are
finally getting to a point of momentum where we are able to
show that it is working across sectors, across states, and that
the skill sets are stable and that the talent, even though
unproven, is able to migrate into the job and be retained.
So it is really in--we are in that 5-10 year longitudinal
study window that companies need to see to feel positive about
it.
Ms. TRAHAN. You bet. And I am going to try to squeeze this
last question into my 20 seconds.
But often what we hear from employers is that with no
formal bachelor's degree, soft skills are lost, that are so
important. You know, those management skills, financial
literacy skills.
Have you confronted that? In 5 seconds do you have any
recommendations for how to fill that gap?
Ms. CARLSON. I don't have a recommendation. I can tell you
that it is a core requirement of the companies coming in
though.
Ms. TRAHAN. Okay, great. Thank you.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Mr. Guthrie.
Mr. GUTHRIE. Thank you, Madam Chair, for holding this
meeting. Thank you for all the witnesses for being here. I tell
people back home quite often that a lot of the stuff that
happens here happens in working together in bipartisanship.
That is not what gets on television all the time. And the Chair
and I have worked hard on the Apprentice Act, and just put
forth the Partners Act.
And everybody here--because everybody here and sitting at
home, they were having employers that want to expand, want to
grow, want to move forward, and they can't find qualified
employees to apply or to be there. And if employees show up
with the right skills, they are going to make their lives
better.
So knowing makes their businesses better, makes our citizen
better. And so that is why there is so much focus on this. And
what a great panel.
I worked in a manufacturing facility and we didn't have
enough tool and die makers, industrial maintenance people, and
tried to find them, tried to find them, until we found the very
best people were the ones working in our plant at other places.
They knew what the die was, they knew what the--they knew how
to run it, but they didn't know how to set it, they didn't know
how to make it, they didn't know how to repair it. But they
showed up for work every day and they were working hard. And
they weren't underemployed according to their skill level, but
they were certainly underemployed to their aptitude level and
what they could be and what they could do.
And there was a particular person, who is like mid 30's and
had 2 children, one almost a teenager. And I remember at a
quality lab her doing an angle on a thing and I said, wow, you
just did trig, and she had dropped out high school. And she
said, I don't know trig, I never took trig. I said well, you
don't know that, but you do know it. And it was funny to see
her kind of spark and go on back to school.
But I guess through that, 4 years is a lifetime to her. If
you are 33 years old, you have got almost a teenager, just to
say I can't go in the fall and just in the spring and take the
summers off. I have got to get through this. And so that is
what--who we--I want to focus on and try to reach out to. I
think a lot about her and people in her situation and how we
move forward.
But there are a lot of jobs that require skills, and with
those skills come good wages. But some will take 4 years, like
truck driving. I know in our area you can start over--almost
$50,000 starting for truck driving. There are welders paying
$18 for people just to show up and learn how--$18 an hour just
to learn how to weld if they are willing to learn how to weld.
And what seems to be happening--of course, our big supply
of these skills were people that came to work unskilled and we
trained them, because they were smart and they just didn't know
it, or nobody told them that, or something happened to them in
their education level. But now you struggle just to get the--if
you have some unskilled--so in a factor you have got unskilled
jobs or low skilled jobs and you have got high skilled, and
trying to transfer them up. Now, just getting people--if you go
to employers now, they say, if I could find somebody breathing
and pass the drug test, they would move forward, I can move
forward.
And so I guess what I am getting at--and I know that, Mr.
Hays, you have an ambitious program with your apprenticeships.
And when you go to factories and when you go to even work force
training--we did a lot of work bipartisan on WIOA. The biggest
concern when you go to employers, even people who train work
force training, is we don't have people showing up for the
training, we are not getting people into the training. And
wages are--I mean it is almost $50,000 to start truck driving.
I think Walmart said they might pay $90,000 for truck driving
because they can't move their stuff.
So but it just doesn't seem the market is working. That
wages are going up in skills. I am not--don't necessarily talk
about unskilled or low skilled, and business--and there are
seven main open jobs, but people aren't showing up for the
training. I know people are, but the mass of people that can
fill these jobs.
And, Mr. Hays, do you have any insight on that? And I know
you want to reach I think 50,000 people, and how are you going
to measure that and how are you moving forward with that?
Mr. HAYS. And I will give you a good example, Congressman.
In Dallas right now there are probably 45-50,000 jobs open
today that pay $24 an hour or more and require an associate
degree or less. And yet, as I said, we have the third highest
poverty rate in the Nation. They are not buying what we are
selling.
Mr. GUTHRIE. That is my point. You are right onto my point.
So what is your--
Mr. HAYS. So how do we bring that home. And I think a lot
of it we are doing--and our chancellor very visionary with his
early college high school programs. We have 55 high schools in
Dallas County right now that will next fall be participating
where students are getting an associate degree and their high
school diploma at the same time. And we have partnered like
with the University of North Texas Dallas so those students can
move into bachelor degree programs, for example, at no cost to
that student.
We have the Dallas County Promise. Students who are
graduating seniors from Dallas County high schools coming in
and not having to pay anything to go to college.
Mr. GUTHRIE. You think you are--are you capturing--I am
running out of time--are you capturing students that would have
probably gone on anyway, they just got it done before they got
out of high school, or are you actually bringing in people that
you think would have been lost to the system?
Mr. HAYS. Yes, we--the data shows that we are increasing
significantly the number of students who are going to college.
Mr. GUTHRIE. That is good.
Mr. HAYS. And my thing is that college is an option for
them, but apprenticeships are too. And so how do we create
programs in the high school levels to start bringing those
students into apprenticeships.
Mr. GUTHRIE. I might have said college, I meant skills.
Mr. HAYS. Yes, skill programs as well. And I think the pre-
apprenticeship programs that we discussed are great avenues for
that. And it is something--we have to up our game in to try to
bring in more pre-apprenticeship programs to the high schools
to match what we are doing bringing students into college
programs.
Mr. GUTHRIE. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. I
appreciate it. And I yield back.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you very much.
Ms. Lee.
Ms. LEE. Good morning. Thank you all for your testimony
today.
Mr. Pavesic, first of all, I had the honor of touring Local
525's training facility in Las Vegas, Nevada, and I must say,
it was a true gem and a true asset for our community.
Mr. PAVESIC. Thank you.
Ms. LEE. I also, in addition to serving on this committee,
I also serve on the Veterans Affairs Committee, and so I was
very pleased with your testimony about the UA's Veterans in
Piping program, the VIP program, where you support
transitioning service members and give them advanced credit
toward their completion of their apprenticeship program.
I wanted to ask you, what was the UA's motivation in
creating that program?
Mr. PAVESIC. Well, basically it was the right thing to do.
These men and women put their life on the line to, you know,
protect us and to keep our Nation safe, and it was--it really
wasn't even a sale, it was a very easy program that we put
together that the membership 100 percent supported. And it is
supported 100 percent with membership contributions into our
training fund.
Ms. LEE. Thank you. You know, suicide prevention is such an
important part of what we are focusing on the Veterans
Committee, and I hear again and again from veterans that it is
a whole body and it is about having work and having employment
and living in dignity. So thank you for that.
I wanted to ask you, talking about the success of it, can
you talk about your success metrics in how successfully you
transition veterans into the workplace?
Mr. PAVESIC. So, you know, it didn't come without problems.
I mean when we started it we were new to it and it was actually
a new program even to the military. But what we found is that
as we worked more closely with the military--and what we
actually do now is the military sends us the candidates. So
they understand the candidates, what they are looking for, if
they will be successful. Not every soldier wants to be a
pipefitter or a plumber. So we wanted to make sure that if we
were going to make that investment that individual was willing
to do that trade and to get into that trade.
And the idea then too was then to support them. We make
sure that we find a job for them when they come out. And the
best part about this is that they are actually trained while
they are still on active duty. So the day they transition out
they go right into a job.
Ms. LEE. That is great. Thank you very much.
Ms. Carlson, the Administration recently released its 2020
budget and proposed the $160 million expansion of IRAPs rather
than direct funds toward Registered Apprenticeship programs.
The Department of Labor also may soon announce the first grant
recipients for these new IRAPs.
I believe that with the introduction of these
apprenticeship programs it is super important that we ensure
that there is a strong quality control that ensures that
individuals who are enrolled can also achieve the outcomes that
they so desire. We have seen what weak oversight does and the
pitfalls of that, or quality control, especially when it comes
to for-profit schools. Certainly in my community in Las Vegas,
we have seen a lot of closures and a lot of students put out
without any degree as a result.
Will your organization attempt to create these new IRAPs
rather than stay with the Registered programs?
Ms. CARLSON. No. My board has made the decision with me to
stay in the Registered system and not engage in IRAPs.
Ms. LEE. Can you expand on what were the factors that
caused you to make that decision?
Ms. CARLSON. Well, at this point, it is two really. It is
that we have no directive from the employers that we work with
to do it differently, and the companies want a standardized,
holistic, portable system and feel that the rigor attached to
the Registered system is the correct one. The IRAP system being
defined as something that would be company centric takes away
from that portability on the skill sets.
Second to that is that we don't have a definition of what
an IRAP is. I can't engage in what I don't understand. And as
we have tried to do our research on that and have sat through
several committee meetings, it is still unclear what it is
expected to deliver and how it will be defined.
Ms. LEE. Thank you. Mr. Pavesic, I have one more question
for you.
Can you tell us what sets the UA's Registered
Apprenticeship programs apart from other work force training
models like the non-registered programs in your same sector?
Mr. PAVESIC. Well, I mean highly skilled jobs, the amount
of money that the individuals make when they come out. And it
is actually we are setting them up to be great attributes to
the country, because it is not just a job that we are training,
it is a career.
Ms. LEE. Great. Thank you all very much. Appreciate it.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Mr. Grothman.
Mr. GROTHMAN. Right. Thank you very much. I do have
apprenticeship programs in my district, as everybody else, you
know, toward the carpenters, the operating engineers, pipe
trades, that sort of thing. All very impressive and all share
something in common, they can't find enough people. And
employers around my district can't find enough people.
I will ask you guys, and maybe I should start with Mr.
Hays, but any of you, is there anywhere in the country where we
really have enough people in these sort of things, or is it a
nationwide thing that these well paid professions are--
frequently more well paid than what you get with a 4-year
college degree--can't find people to fill them? Is there
anywhere around the country where they really have enough
people in these trades? Do you have anywhere or is this a
nationwide problem?
Okay. I attribute part of this to the snobbishness
connected with a 4-year degree, coming out advisors, high
school guidance counselors, that sort of thing. This is a
problem that has been going on for 20 or 25 years. I don't know
why they are not up to snuff. Can you suggest what we can do to
get the word out to people at age 16 or 17 about how much more
money they can make and how much less in debt they will be--not
to mention have, I think, more job security--to the young
people than we are now.
Mr. PAVESIC. Can I answer that?
Mr. GROTHMAN. Sure.
Mr. PAVESIC. I believe that where the real answer is to the
guidance counselors that are in high schools.
Mr. GROTHMAN. They need some regulation there. There is
where you are going to need competence.
Mr. PAVESIC. And the biggest part of that, Congressman, is
that their evaluations are based on how many children they send
to college, whether they spend 1 day in college or they go the
entire time. And that is how their evaluations are based. They
should be based on have they sent somebody to a post-secondary
education system, whether it be apprenticeship or college.
And we try to talk to guidance counselors. I mean we attend
the guidance counselor conferences and we talk about it. When
they see our model they think it is a great model, especially
the fact that they can receive college credits while they earn
and learn, but it just seems like it--that message just doesn't
get down to the student or the parents.
Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. Anybody else have any--I will ask
something to combine with your answer to the last question.
Well, go ahead. We let the others of you respond to that last
question.
Ms. CARLSON. If I may? I think it is correct that we have
to look at what the guidance counselors are doing and how they
are establishing it. I think that from a national advertising
campaign we need to de-stigmatize what an apprenticeship is
because it is--
Mr. GROTHMAN. Oh, I think it is de-stigmatized I think
among most people. I think the problem is a lot of guidance
counselors, who by the way are very well paid, get very
generous fringe benefits, are almost making things worse. Do
you think that is true?
Ms. CARLSON. I don't know what their compensation is. I do
know that they are incented to put people into college degrees
and that our sector is technology and is equally as much as
demand looking for people to fill the jobs as the trades are.
And that wages in both industries can end up looking the same
within 5 years without the benefit of a degree.
Mr. GROTHMAN. Okay. I will ask you folks, do you see a
lot--one of the things that I think is very illuminating is
when I hear from people in the trades or people in tech schools
talking about people who got a degree that didn't lead to a
skill coming back when they are 28, 29, 33, 34, getting a skill
that they could have had when they were 20 years old, and they
have been, you know, losing out on compensation for 13 or 14
years, not to mention frequently harnessed with a big debt as
well.
Do you folks find that true around the country where people
are getting involved in these programs much later than they
could have?
Mr. HAYS. Oh, absolutely. I think that, you know, we see it
all the time, students coming back, you know, for whatever
reason--can't find work in the area that they originally
studied, or bored with that, tired of it, and want to try
something new. It is pretty significant in our system.
Mr. GROTHMAN. Anybody else want to comment on that?
Mr. PAVESIC. What I would say is we see more and more
applicants that come into our program that have 4-year degrees
just for the exact same reason, they cannot find a worthwhile
job and they need to pay off their debt. And all of them, after
they get in the apprenticeship program, say the same thing,
that they wish they would have done that earlier.
And that also could help somewhat too to fund more
vocational classes in high school so that these individuals can
see that there are other jobs, there are IT jobs, and plumbers,
and pipefitters, and welders that are available to them.
Mr. GROTHMAN. I am not sure it is the Federal Government's
role, but I do see in my area the more on the ball school
districts are beginning to do things, getting people acquainted
with these skills in high school. I know they are doing it more
in Wisconsin. Maybe it is because they are a heavy
manufacturing state, got a lot of good construction outfits,
but is this something that you see more nationwide, more of the
high schools being on the ball and realizing that we can get
people on the road to these apprenticeships even when you are
in high school?
Ms. CARLSON. I think we can start younger. Certainly.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Mr. Grothman, your time is up, but I must
tell you that I would love to work with you on this counselor
piece.
Mr. GROTHMAN. Oh, good. Thank you so much.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Ms. Bonamici.
Ms. BONAMICI. Thank you, Chair Davis, and Ranking Member
Smucker. And thank you to all of our witnesses for being here.
This is an important discussion we are having, and I think the
real key is making sure that we have a path for everyone. As a
member of this subcommittee and this committee, I am certainly
not going to argue that a college degree is not valuable. The
key is making sure that for those who decide not to go to
college, or seek a different path, that we have those
opportunities for them.
Career and technical education, of course, in our schools
is another way to enlighten students about different
opportunities in the work force.
So I represent Northwest Oregon and as I travel around and
talk with people, there are still a lot of people left behind,
there is still that skills gap with people looking for work.
And expanding Registered Apprenticeships is certainly a way to
help address that and to get not only people into good jobs,
but also to make sure that employers have people with the
skills they need.
And, Ms. Carlson, I am so glad you are here also from the
Pacific Northwest. I know you have offices in Oregon, work with
the Technology Association of Oregon. I have been especially
interested in expanding Registered Apprenticeship and that
model to new sectors of the economy, like healthcare and
technology.
And I worked with Chair Davis and Representative Ferguson
and Guthrie to introduce the--it has a really long name--
Promoting Apprenticeships through Regional Training Networks
for Employers' Required Skills, but it is easy to remember
because it is PARTNERS. The PARTNERS Act. So this bipartisan
bill we use existing dollars to invest in industry partnerships
to help businesses recruit workers, develop training
curriculum, and provide, importantly, workers with the tools
they need. For example, work attire, transportation, childcare,
mentorship.
So, Ms. Carlson, can you talk about Apprenti's role as an
industry intermediary? And how do you support both large
national employers, like Microsoft, and then also the smaller
businesses? And how can those industry partnerships and
intermediaries help support employers that are navigating the
Registered Apprenticeship process?
Ms. CARLSON. Certainly. You know, some of the feedback that
we did get early on was the thought process behind filing of a
standard would become very company centric, to the ethos of the
company and less about the skill sets in the jobs, which is why
they were all willing to come to the table and collaborate on
developing the skill sets that we filed for the occupations
that are in the supporting testimony.
And the roles very functionally are able to then transcend
all sectors. If you are a C Sharp (C#) developer it is not only
a C Sharp (C#) developer for Microsoft. That transcends every
company that is working in that language, no matter what sector
they are in, which is how we were able as the intermediary to
establish that, and then the companies sign on to one set so
that we are not having to re-craft every time, but it also
means that we can keep up to the minute with whatever changes
take place in the marketplace.
We then work with the companies on the curriculums and the
curriculum changes for each employer based on the needs or the
platform that they are on. If they are on Azure versus AWS, for
example.
Ms. BONAMICI. Wonderful. Thank you for your work. And want
to get another question in.
You know, we have seen women in the trades. Across the
country the representation is quite low, but in Oregon we have
a wonderful organization, Oregon Trades Women. We have
basically more than double the national average of women in the
trades. They offer work-based learning programs to
organizations aiming to be inclusive of women in the trades.
Mr.--is it Pavesic? Did I say it right?
Mr. PAVESIC. Yes.
Ms. BONAMICI. In your testimony you discuss UA's outreach
to traditionally underrepresented populations in the trades,
including people of color and women, and that recruitment is
only as good as the program that is offered.
So can you discuss why the quality and accountability
provisions of Registered Apprenticeships are important to the
success and retention of workers?
And as you prepare to answer, I just want to thank Ms.
Carlson for including the success stories in there. There is a
lot of diversity in the work you do as well.
Mr. Pavesic?
Mr. PAVESIC. Well, I mean our recruitment in outreach
director is a female, is a woman. We do partner with the North
American Building Trades for Women Build Nations, which is
actually the Building Trades second largest conference every
year. And this year it will be held in Minnesota if anybody is
interested. And all are welcome.
But I mean can we do a better job? Obviously we can. The
one problem that we do see is that we don't have women apply to
our programs because it is not traditional, it is not a
traditional job.
But one of the things that we do is there are plenty of
jobs within our trades that women can do. So what we do is do
outreach to try to show them that and to--so that they can see
that is a viable option to them.
And the other part too is with Registered Apprenticeship,
29 C.F.R. 30 is definitely going to push more the Registered
Apprenticeships toward making sure that their demographics, you
know, match the demographics of the area they are in.
Ms. BONAMICI. Right. Terrific. And just in my final few
seconds, I want to point out that a lot of the current
technical education classes that are offered in high schools I
think will help expose students to the possibilities. There was
a high school in my district that for a time had a girls only
welding class. So there are just a lot of opportunities for
young women to see the potential there.
So thank you all and I yield back.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Mr. Smucker.
Mr. SMUCKER. Thank you, Madam Chair.
We have talked about the stigma associated with the trades
and other jobs that we promote or that have been prevalent. My
colleague, Mr. Grothman, will like a quote I ran across
recently. This was by Robert Greenleaf, who wrote the book
``The Servant as Leader'', talking about the best leaders are
servants first. He was a philosopher, academic, theologian,
writer, businessman, but he died in 1990. And on his tomb are
inscribed the words that he requested, which says ``potentially
a good plumber ruined by a sophisticated education''. So I
thought Mr. Grothman would like that.
But isn't there some truth to that? And I think we are
seeing the tide turn. And, of course, we would never discourage
a 4-year degree for anyone, but there are lot of opportunities
out there.
And so I am thrilled that we are talking about
apprenticeships. The fact of the matter is it is still a very
small segment of the potential work force participating in
apprenticeships. And so I think a discussion about how we can
expand that is very, very appropriate at this time,
particularly at a time when we have so many job openings and
such a critical need for businesses to fill those jobs.
I wanted to just go back a little, because the fact of the
matter is that there are a lot of employers today, to the point
I just made, who hire people into their work force and train
them. They may not have an education. You know, I joked just a
little bit ago, someone earlier said about the criteria for
hiring someone now. I was in the construction industry at a
point in time where if you fog a mirror essentially you are
going to get a job when you work into the work force. And that
is too often what happens today.
So companies are hiring people and training them without
participating in an apprenticeship program. And I think it is
worth talking about the value of an apprenticeship program in
the first place.
Mr. Hays, why would a company want their employees to
participate in an apprenticeship program, and why would an
employee not only want to participate in on the job training
but why wouldn't they want be part of an apprenticeship
program?
Mr. HAYS. I believe it is critical that companies have to
look--because just as you mentioned, Congressman, the fact that
there are labor shortages all over the country, and in a lot of
cases your business' survival is going to depend on not only
recruiting, but keeping a work force. Apprenticeship can be a
tremendous retention tool for those employees, showing that,
you know, we see workers today and they--you know, they say
well what am I going to be making 6 months from how, a year
from now. And a lot of employers can't tell them. With an
apprenticeship, if that is laid out and say you meet these
competencies, in 6 months you are going to be here, in a year
you are going to be here.
Mr. SMUCKER. Yes, so isn't it the fact that it is a
structure training program, No. 1, and then, two, there is some
sort of certificate or journeyman--you know, there is something
at the end of that process which I think is really, really
valuable to parents, to employees, to students who are
considering various career paths, to guidance counselor. That
is why I really like what you are doing in the partnerships
with community colleges, for instance. I have great
partnerships in my area. HACC is a community college in my area
who partners--students can then--and employees can earn
certificates and then even can go on further and earn an
associate degree and go as far as they like that regard
And I think that is a really important aspect of it.
We have to figure out how we can expand this. And I know
the current registration program can be too cumbersome.
Mr. Hays, can you tell me how long it takes?
Mr. HAYS. I will give you an example of the one in my
statement with RMS Aerospace. It took 11 months from beginning
to finally the program being recognized.
Mr. SMUCKER. That is just too long. Too many businesses
choose not to participate in apprenticeship programs because of
that.
I completely agree we need high quality programs, but we
have to look at either streamlining the process or finding
other ways to help them.
Mr. Pavesic, in your testimony you say--I just want to
clarify your thinking on this--a successful, and I quote,
``apprenticeship program is built on a partnership between
organized labor, signatory employees, and government''. Do you
think apprenticeship should be expanded beyond that we are
seeing in organized labor?
Mr. PAVESIC. As far as beyond Registered Apprenticeships?
Mr. SMUCKER. No, beyond organized labor.
Mr. PAVESIC. Oh, absolutely.
Mr. SMUCKER. So are you willing as a member of organized
labor to share best practices with companies that are not
union?
Mr. PAVESIC. Well, part of the--our training programs are
ERISA funded, so the Department of Labor actually restricts us
from those programs that are developed using membership money
to share that with non-members. But we are willing to share our
model with our non-union counterparts.
We embrace Registered Apprenticeships and we are more than
willing to level the playing field and say that if we are going
to do this apprenticeship program and we are going to follow
these regulations, and you follow the same, we are willing to
do that. Absolutely, Congressman.
Mr. SMUCKER. Thank you.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you. Thank you.
And we will now talk to our Chair of the Education and
Labor Committee, Mr. Scott.
Mr. SCOTT. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Registered Apprenticeships have stood the test of time
there is no place where they make the better point than in my
district with the Apprentice School at the Newport News
Shipbuilding. That Apprentice School is over 100 years old. It
has graduated more than 10,000 apprentices. It currently has
approximately 800 young men and women enrolled in 28 different
4, 5, and 8-year apprenticeship programs, all approved by the
Virginia State Apprenticeship Agency.
And they do such a good job and have so many applications
that the odds of getting into the Apprentice School are worse
than the odds of getting into an Ivy League college.
I guess a good advantage of this, you not only get a good
education, but you are paid while you are doing it, so you end
up--unlike many students--you end up with no debt.
Mr. Hays, in the community college you indicated there are
a lot of jobs. I assume they are not filled because people
can't find workers with the appropriate skills. Is that right?
Mr. HAYS. Yes, sir, that is correct.
Mr. SCOTT. And you talked about working with businesses to
make sure that you have the programs that are needed. Have you
been able to meet the need of the businesses in your community?
Mr. HAYS. No, sir. The need is so massive that we cannot
turn out the number of people that we need, whatever
traditional college programs, apprenticeships, or whatever.
There is still this massive labor shortage in the Dallas-Fort
Worth area.
Mr. SCOTT. And what is the barrier to meeting the need by
the community colleges?
Mr. HAYS. I think the biggest barrier is the fact that, as
I have said earlier, they are not buying what we are selling.
The traditional approach is not working. How do we attract
students, how do we get them into, whether it is traditional
college programs, whether it is apprenticeship programs, any
kind of training or education programs, how do we get them into
that, how do we attract them? And I think we are still trying
to figure that out. Around the country there are pocket of
success here and there, but to take that to scale is a huge
problem.
Mr. SCOTT. There are alternatives to community colleges.
Can you compare what you charge students for similar programs
compared to what they pay elsewhere?
Mr. HAYS. Speaking specifically for the Dallas County
Community College District, our tuition rate is $59 a credit
hour. Half of our students pay nothing. With the Dallas County
Promise we have had 16,000 seniors that have come into our
college programs this past year. That is more than the number
of graduating seniors in 17 states. These students will pay
nothing for their college. And then with the transfer programs
worked out to 4-year institutions, they could essentially go
through 4-year--get a 4-year college degree if they so choose
and not have to pay very much money at all to do that.
Mr. SCOTT. Well, what are the alternative ways of getting a
similar education, similar job training?
Mr. HAYS. Well, the apprenticeship programs, of course, are
areas that we look at simply because we know that--you know,
the old saying that not everyone is cut out for college, well
that may be true, but my thing is everyone has to have some
kind of post-secondary training.
Mr. SCOTT. Right. And you can get it there in--there are
other ways of getting the education, a for-profit college, for
example.
Mr. HAYS. Yes, sir, that is an alternative. They have had
very well publicized problems around the country. But that
certainly could be an alternative.
Mr. SCOTT. Well, how do your prices compare to those?
Mr. HAYS. Oh, I mean, Congressman, a student could get an
associate of applied science degree at one of our institutions
for less than $4,000. We don't even charge fees. We don't even
charge student fees, so. We are blessed, very blessed among a
lot of community colleges in this country.
Mr. SCOTT. Well, if they are buying that at a higher price,
do you advertise.
Mr. HAYS. We do have some marketing, for example, with
major sporting events, with social media, and that sort of
thing. But television time is a different story in Dallas. A
very expensive television market, so you are not going to go
out and buy a lot of TV advertising, for example.
Mr. SCOTT. I have a couple of other questions, Madam Chair,
but I see by the time I asked the question my time would have
run out, so I will yield back.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Mr. Banks, you are next.
Mr. BANKS. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to focus a little bit too on flexibility and
innovation. Everyone on this committee knows that the skills
gap is a daunting challenge. While Registered Apprenticeships
are an important part of closing the gap, the data makes clear
that we will need more options if employers are going to fill
the millions of jobs currently available.
For example, in my home state of Indiana, there are
100,000+ unfilled jobs. At the same time in 2018 there were
17,000 Hoosiers enrolled in federally Registered
Apprenticeships and 3,000 graduates. That is simply not enough.
The same is true at the Federal level. The latest data
shows 7.6 million unfilled jobs compared to 585,000 active
apprenticeships and 72,000 graduates. Given that half of all
job openings between now and 2022 will be middle skill, exactly
the kind of jobs that apprenticeships can help fill, we clearly
will need more options outside of the federally Registered
programs.
Mr. Hays, in your testimony you talk about the DCCCD, about
what they are already involved with some of these industry
recognized apprenticeship programs. Given the magnitude of the
skills gap and the numbers that I have mentioned, would it be
fair to say that more industry recognized apprenticeships are
simply an economic necessity?
Mr. HAYS. Oh, I believe so. And I think to expand this
program, it is going to be critical. But I share some of my
colleague's concerns here about the rigor of those programs.
And part of what we need to make sure of is that there is clear
guidance on those programs from the Department of Labor and
that rigor is maintained.
And a lot of that--employers though are going to say that
we are going to maintain the rigor simply because they are
going to be our workers and we don't want workers who aren't
skilled doing critical jobs. So I think you will see a lot of
that correct itself. I don't know if IRAPs are going to replace
the entire world of apprenticeships. I certainly don't think
so. I think there is a place for both programs, for both
Registered and IRAP programs.
Mr. BANKS. I appreciate that very much.
That is all I got. I yield back.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Ms. Adams.
Ms. ADAMS. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I want to thank the
ranking member as well for convening the hearing today. And to
the witnesses, thank you for your testimony.
Ms. Carlson, what types of support do intermediaries
provide to help lower barriers for employers to participate in
Registered Apprenticeships?
Ms. CARLSON. Well, we work with the employers to identify
the roles that they are willing to take, people that can't or
that don't have college degrees, because that is not a
requirement for getting into the program, which opens the door
to everybody effectively, 18 and over. And then we provide the
employers with a bank of potential of apprentices that they get
to interview on a blind basis. So they don't get to know the
educational attainment or prior work experience of those
people, so they are comparing them purely on soft skills and
their ability to have competency in the work. Our ability to do
that as the intermediary allows us to kind of break down some
of the barriers that they have had in hiring previously.
Ms. ADAMS. All right. Thank you very much. I was glad to
see that you recommended in your testimony dedicating $250
million annually to supporting apprenticeship programs.
One of the biggest challenges to scaling successful work
force training programs in our country is the lack of resources
that we dedicate to the work force system. WIOA, for example,
has yet to be fully funded to authorize levels. And the Trump
Administration's proposed 2020 budget calls for cutting $1.2
billion, for nearly 10 percent of the Department of Labor's
resources to help offset the cost of tax cuts for the
wealthiest Americans.
I was also impressed by the fact that the Apprenti
apprentices make roughly 155 percent jump in earnings in about
18 months of their program. Can you speak more to the positions
and the wages that are coming out of your apprenticeship
programs and the kinds of investments that are really necessary
to scale programs like yours?
Ms. CARLSON. Absolutely. These are middle skills positions,
so they are at the low end, the data center technician role,
all the way up to cloud specialist and software developer, so
they are true middle skills. And the range in retained salary
is between $56,000 and $118,000. And we now have a large number
that are in that $90-118,000 coming in. Fifty-two percent of
the apprentices end up having a college degree. Once we get
them into the system we find that out. But the retention looks
the same on college degreed versus non-college degreed, proving
that it is about competency and not the pedigree.
Ms. ADAMS. Yes, Okay. So what other actions can my
colleagues and I take to help intermediaries like Apprenti
expand innovative programs, apprenticeship programs in high
demand fields while maintaining program quality?
Ms. CARLSON. Well, because this is new to the tech sector
in this country, one of the challenges that companies look at
as they are trying to get their heads around hiring
nontraditional talent into these roles is the cost. And they
are already fronting the cost at about $75,000 a person for the
salary and benefits for the term of apprenticeship. They are
fronting a portion of the training costs, and we are working
jurisdictionally across each state to identify public-private
partnership to pay the remainder of the tuition so that the
apprentice pays none of the training cost.
As a result, it means having to piecemeal that location by
location, which makes it harder to scale with companies.
Establishing that $250 million ask would allow for that
immediate match on a national scale and will alleviate some of
the pressure that we have in trying to help companies
understand what their investment might look like and get them
more confident and comfortable in the model.
Ms. ADAMS. Thank you very much.
Madam Chair, I also want to just comment on the fact that a
lot of this hearing, and rightfully so, has focused on youth
apprenticeships and the benefit of starting students into the
work force. As a former educator of 40 years, I understand how
important that is. But I also hope that as we debate the
importance of apprenticeships, that we can discuss
transitioning and displaced adults, returning citizens, and the
disabled as we debate not only preparing future workers for
America's work force, but how to provide for those who are
trying to find their way into a changing economy.
And with that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you.
Mr. Norcross.
Mr. NORCROSS. Thank you, Madam Chair, and ranking member
for having this hearing. I really like what is coming of this.
I am a product of a 4-year apprenticeship, not a common way
to get to Congress, but certainly something I understand. And I
just want to echo what Ranking Member Smucker talked about very
early on, is the narrative in this Nation, in order to make it
you have to go to college. Well, that might be true for a few,
for many, or at different times in their life, but it is not
right for everyone.
Certainly, I had three brothers, they went more traditional
college route. I did a 4-year, but it was non-college, it was
an electrical apprenticeship program. But the narrative is from
your parents to your teachers to your guidance counselors, you
have got to go to college. I can't tell you how many college
attending people now apply for the apprenticeship program after
they go to college, spend maybe $100,000 of debt, find out it
is not for them, and then find a way into one of the skilled
craft trades. And that is a narrative that your comments and
others that we have to change.
You might not go to college in the beginning, maybe at 25
you are ready. But we need to have on ramps and off ramps to
apprenticeship programs.
And I want to thank the Chairwoman for setting up that
CODEL. We went over to Switzerland to see the model that they
are making. And they have in so many more industries than we
do. Our traditional apprenticeship craft workers, metal trades,
and some of the shipyards, or primarily the building trades who
have been doing it for well over 100 years and do it better
than anybody and do it with 0 government dollars. Zero
government dollars.
And that is the main difference between why I believe we
are falling behind in the other areas that you talk about, Ms.
Carlson, is that companies want us to pay for it. That is a
difference between a model that works in the building trades
and the models that you are trying to.
I think an idea of seed money to get the programs sort of
going, but this is something that it becomes a gift for those
companies. That we should work collectively together, whether
in the union, collective bargaining agreement, or other trades
that you talk about, Mr. Hays, what you do. It is that we can
all do this together.
And that is one of the things, the Registered program is
critical. And there are a couple of reasons why. The standards
on the East Coast are the same as the West Coast, particularly
in the trades and the metal trades. The electricity flows the
same way here as it does there, and they are interchangeable.
But the most important thing is as you go through these
programs, the flexibility for market conditions. When times
were tough a half dozen years ago, the apprentice rate of going
in was much lower because the industry didn't need it. Now, it
is on the other end. But unfortunately, when I applied for only
40 spots, there was 800 applications. Today, that is less than
half, because that narrative, that somehow you have to go to
college to make it.
We were just down with Bobby Scott in his shipyard where we
are seeing firsthand that next generation. Because we can draw
all the blueprints we want, design the fastest ships, but if
there is nobody there to build them, we are in trouble.
So that brings me to the Registered Apprenticeship
programs, the portability of skills. If we set up separate
standards across the country, that portability gets erased. You
can define it for market conditions, which is what they do so
well. But so when we talk about Registered programs there are
those companies out there that want to abuse apprentices, to
use them for the cheaper rate. Davis-Bacon. So you have nothing
but first year after first year.
So whatever we do, we have to make sure we look at the
schools, the graduation rates, that they are just not churning
out cheap products at first year, but are actually graduating
skilled craftswomen and men.
So, as I go into my first set of questions I want to talk
about that continuous feedback and the fact that zero
government dollars.
Mr. Pavesic, or as I call him, Mr. UA, talk to us about the
apprenticeship program, because I don't think you figure into
the cost of the apprenticeship program what employers are
paying apprentices. They are getting productivity back when
they are paid, right?
Mr. PAVESIC. Absolutely, Congressman. You know, and the
thing about that is that they are getting a skill set from an
apprentice that comes in at a lower cost, they are able to
blend their rates so they are more competitive with those
apprentices that they bring in. But, yes, I would say
absolutely.
Mr. NORCROSS. So when we talk about if we really want to do
what we have talked about, and I believe everybody here
understands, let us create some incentives that aren't
necessarily--outside of some seed money--some incentives to use
apprentices to work them through on good programs that
graduate.
So the bidding process comes to mind. Do you have any
thoughts on, so if you use a certain amount of apprentices and
they graduate at a rate, you know, 60 percent or above, how
does that fit into the bidding process right now?
Chairwoman DAVIS. Excuse me. I am sorry, Mr. Norcross, your
time is up and over, so I am going to switch. And if we can try
and incorporate those answers into some of the other questions,
that would be really helpful.
Mr. Takano next.
Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Chairman Davis, for this hearing and
thank you to our witnesses for providing your insights into
this growing industry.
Registered Apprenticeships are an important part of the
work force training and they are valuable for the workers and
the employers, which is evident from the growing number of
apprentices participating. These high-quality programs are
critical pathways to ending a cycle of poverty.
California is currently a leader in Registered
Apprenticeship programs with close to 3,000 active programs to
date. In San Bernardino County, a neighboring county to my
district, they have a successful program called Generation Go.
This program serves hundreds of youth, ages 16 through 24, by
providing work-based learning through a partnership within the
K-12 system, community colleges, and industry that creates a
pipeline for career success. This is not unique to California.
States like South Carolina and Virginia have also very
successful Registered Apprenticeship programs that have trained
thousands of apprentices and provided them with credentials
that are recognized nationwide.
My first question for Ms. Carlson is a--what I want to ask
you is a common complaint about creating new Registered
Apprenticeship programs, especially in new occupations, is the
financial burden that employers face. How did the DOL grant,
that you mention in your testimony, support the establishment
of your program?
Ms. CARLSON. Well, it really worked for us kind of like
seed money, as Mr. Norcross pointed out. It wasn't intended to
be a long-term fund. It was built so that we could adequately
staff and work with the companies to build the program. The
original intent was that we would help companies set up
Registered Apprenticeship for themselves within each company,
and that is when they pushed back on us to staff it and become
the intermediary and take on some of those responsibilities on
behalf of them with this Federal Government in the filing
process.
But those funds were the seed capital that was needed to
get the programs running and begin to expand. The contract that
we subsequently won from the U.S. DOL to be the IT sector lead
is what has funded our ability to expand that on a national
footprint. And our program is built to be self-sustaining in 3
to 4 years. So that is not a long-term cost that needs to be
there for us. The sector will start to make that investment in
us to maintain it across the country.
Mr. TAKANO. So really you can foresee with this sort of
seed capital the apprenticeship becoming self-sustaining in the
way that they are in the building trades?
Ms. CARLSON. Correct. Over time.
Mr. TAKANO. Over time.
Ms. CARLSON. So for us it is a green field environment. The
companies in this country are trying to get comfortable with
the idea and how they cultivate talent and as much as we are
building this out on their behalf, they are figuring out how to
operationalize it internally to become a training platform. And
so this is something that over time will become self-funding,
very similar to the trades.
Mr. TAKANO. My next question is for Ms. Gainer. The average
age of a new apprentice in the United States is 29. What can we
do to support more youth participation in apprenticeship
programs?
Ms. GAINER. Thank you. The average age of the apprentice
program in Chicago is younger than that, it is probably the
earlier 20's. We have been recruiting people from city
colleges, so you have some who are in their late 20's, a few in
their early 30's, but most--we have 5 new people that just
started today who are 18 and 19. So some are leaving high
school and some are mid-20's, but I think it is what others
have said, which is start talking about this in high school.
The reason people choose college is because they know it is
going to relate to a higher wage. We need to make
apprenticeships just as reliable when young people are making a
very important choice in their life.
Mr. TAKANO. Thank you. Ms. Gainer, can you also elaborate
on why this is a financial benefit for a company, such as
yours, which has been ranked globally as a top company?
Ms. GAINER. Thank you. You know, for us, it is very
expensive to hire someone and have them leave after 18 months
and then have to go hire a recruit and train someone else to
take their place. So when you identify the roles that had
higher attrition and those were the first targets, and that was
in order to make the business case and try something new and
different, which is inherently risky. So we reduced the cost of
retention, we increase our savings by retention. But the second
thing is apprentices, especially in the UK where we have been
tracking this for over an UK, are much more highly engaged, and
that is well proven to be a more productive employee.
Mr. TAKANO. Well, how do you suggest we incentivize more
employers and businesses to actively participate and come to
the table?
Ms. GAINER. I think it is about creating something that is
scalable across the country. We are now beginning to start the
program in New York working with IBM and others. And the idea
that you can have all the learning and the development we have
done on the Registered programs can be ported there, I think
will be a big help.
Mr. TAKANO. Madam Chair, my time is out and I yield back.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you very much.
Mr. Trone.
Mr. TRONE. Thank you, Madam Chair. Is this one on? Oh,
there we go.
First of all, thank you very much for coming out today. I
think apprenticeships are absolutely a fantastic way to go.
Before I go this job I was an entrepreneur, an employer. My
company, I created over 7,000 jobs, so I understand the
importance of it is hire, it is train, and it is retain. And
the focus is train and retain. If we get those two things
right, everybody succeeds. The team members succeed and the
company succeeds.
So, Mr. Pavesic, talk a little bit about why UA is so
committed to apprenticeship, because it is an expensive type of
on the job training. There is a lot of less resource intensive
ways you can go about it. But just speak to that a little bit
for us.
Mr. PAVESIC. Well, part of it too is that, you know, it is
funded by the membership, so there is a piece of their hourly
rate that comes back into training. And the members are about
preserving our trade to make sure that this trade is passed on
from generation to generation. So the cost is not--to them the
cost is not a matter.
But the other part of it too is we want to make sure that
we have the highest skilled work force to make sure that we
have the individuals that can come in and do the job.
Mr. TRONE. Thinking about entry, how do people get ready
for apprenticeship programs? What are your thoughts on
legislation on pre-apprenticeship programs that might help
these young people be ready actually to move into an
apprenticeship?
Mr. PAVESIC. Well, you talked about retain. And we support
pre-apprenticeships. The one problem--probably the one issue
that we have when it comes to retention, and it is usually in
the first year where we lose them, is that an individual comes
to us and they are in their 6 months and all the sudden they
are like, you know what, this job is not for me. I don't want
to work high, I don't want to be dirty, you know, I want to do
something else, and we lose those individuals. And we have an
investment into that individual.
So someone who has a pre-apprenticeship--we also have
accelerated training programs ahead of those, you know, 16-18
weeks accelerated training programs, and boot camps. But if
that individual at least sees hey, you know what, I have an
interest in being plumber, I have an interest in being a
pipefitter or a welder. So our retention rates are much better
with pre-apprenticeship.
Mr. TRONE. Okay. Excellent. Last quick question was speak
to the value to an apprentice in having a Registered
Apprenticeship program with a nationally recognized credential
that is stackable. You know, how does this position them for
more success?
Mr. PAVESIC. Well, first of all, it is portable. So an
apprentice that is trained in New York can go to Chicago, can
go to California, and those skills are taught--we are not just
teaching them how to be a plumber or pipefitter in New York, we
are teaching them how to be a successful plumber or pipefitter
throughout the country.
The other part of it too is that--is wages. I mean it is a
living wage. They are able to raise a family and, you know, own
a couple of cars and buy a home. And the other part of it too
is no debt. And they are going to come through, they are going
to earn while they learn with 100 percent employment and no
debt at all.
Mr. TRONE. Okay. Thank you. I yield back my time.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you very much.
We are at Mr. Sablan.
Mr. SABLAN. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Before I start I would like to see unanimous consent to
insert into the record a statement from the International Union
of Painters and Allied Trades.
Thank you.
I don't go home every weekend, I can't. It is just too far
away. But when we do have a 1 week break I go home. I try to,
and I usually do, visit the schools, have conversations with
students. And I am one of those who tells students that not all
of them are going to be doctors and engineers, that some of
them are going to have to make hamburgers. I love eating
hamburgers. And I tell them that there is life aside from
college, because I do agree. And I am aware that students are
being told that, yes, you do good in school and go to college.
I wish I could say that we have a robust apprenticeship
program. We have a trade school that is not accredited. I was
able to get them some money hoping that they would get an
accreditation, be nationally recognized, but. So now that
school is sort of teaming up with our high school and our
community college so that students will get to learn the
trades. I tell them about a friend of mine whose only training
in life was the trade institute and has come back and built
himself a business and pays himself--makes more money than most
lawyers on the Island.
So we are going to get there. I continue to support that
program.
Let me ask you, Ms. Carlson, if I may, your testimony calls
for creating a sustainable annual $250 million Federal matching
fund at states, and I hope the insular areas and territories
like the Northern Marianas, get access to support the classroom
training costs of developing apprenticeships in nontraditional
sectors.
If this investment were made, how many additional
apprenticeships do you foresee could be established annually?
Ms. CARLSON. I would see that as, doing quick math here,
around 30,000. That would subsidize the classroom training of
about 30,000 apprentices.
Mr. SABLAN. Thank you.
Ms. Gainer, this committee in the last Congress we made a
visit to an apprentice shop, training center not far, just
within driving range of Capitol Hill. And I also impress Mr.
Pavesic with--because this is a shop that has union working
with employers and supporting these people. These individuals
come in, attend class for 1 day and the rest of the week they
go and work full-time.
But, Ms. Gainer, you may not know this but in my district
in the Northern Marianas, along with American Samoa, we are the
only two jurisdictions for the 4-year public university. It
hosts a single community college. Now, how has your
organization worked with your local community college and work
force to support and scale your apprenticeship program?
Ms. GAINER. Our apprenticeship program partners for all of
our training with our local community college. So they work 4
days a week at Aon and then they go to community college. So
there is a technical college, there is IT college, there is a
business college. So it is a complete partnership with
community colleges.
Mr. SABLAN. Okay. And I thought I heard you say that you
also have programs in Europe?
Ms. GAINER. So the company is global and apprenticeship
programs in insurance and financial services are pretty common
in Europe, especially, you know, the center of the industry is
in London. And it is pretty common for people to have gone
through an apprentice program.
Mr. SABLAN. Because Aon is in my district actually. It is
in many parts of the Pacific Islands. So maybe if you could
look into that and find a way.
Ms. GAINER. Sure.
Mr. SABLAN. Because many of the students are even in
cooperative education, co-ops with the high school students,
they are sent to work in white collar desk jobs. You know, they
are not sent to learn insurance, for example, or they are not
sent to work with construction companies for some reason. And
that really does a disservice to the individual students who
may actually turn out to be great auto mechanics.
But I see my time is up.
Madam Chair, I will submit some questions for the record.
Thank you very much for being here today.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you very much, and thank you to all
of you.
As we wind up, I wanted to just ask one particular question
that didn't quite get asked, although I know, Ms. Carlson, it
was in your written statement and I think it was referred to
as, you know, what are apprenticeships, how do we define them,
how are they branded, do we run the risk sometimes of just, you
know, talking about apprenticeships without having the
specifics involved.
And so I wonder, Ms. Carlson, if you could respond quickly,
and if others want to add something to that, that would be
fine. And you can also submit that for the record if you would
like so that we have that as part of our record for today as
well.
Ms. Carlson, since you were the one who recommended
particularly defining this.
Ms. CARLSON. Yes. I think we have regulation through DOL
already on books, but having it established in a more formal
setting would be I think incredibly important for us as we try
to alleviate brand confusion around just terming an intern as
an apprentice and changing the title to call it a training
program. So I think codifying that into law and securing that
would also go a long way toward making sure that we deliver on
the promise and any funding that the DOL is providing in the
marketplace.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you. Would you generally agree with
that? Suggest there is kind of a consensus?
Mr. PAVESIC. Well, I just had another comment as far as it
went, Madam Chairwoman. But one of the comments that I had
heard earlier today was that, you know, the manufacturers and
their training programs and their, you know, the--and a lot of
manufacturers bring individuals in and train them. I think
where the mistake is, is to call that an apprenticeship
program. There is nothing wrong with calling it a training
program. But I would hate to see apprenticeship programs
watered down because we bring somebody into a tool and die
manufacturer, or whatever that is, and then teach them maybe
one or two skills there over a short period of time. I think
the idea is to make sure that individuals have the skills to be
productive for their entire life and their entire careers.
Thank you.
Ms. GAINER. I think it is useful to think of an
apprenticeship is a defined period of time where you graduate
and you have a specific job that is recognized across the
country, not just in our own company. And so that is scalable
nationally, but it is not something--you know, I think the
biggest fear for us is we invest all of our own funds into this
program and it becomes like an internship, where maybe you are
getting coffee or maybe you are writing code, and no one knows
what it means, and then thus it does not have value.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you very much.
And certainly from our point of view too, in terms of the
Federal role, we are talking about taxpayer dollars. And so in
those instances where that does help people to navigate better,
to be a little more educated in the process, that is helpful as
well.
I want to turn to our distinguished ranking member for his
closing statement.
Mr. SMUCKER. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to thank all of the witnesses for their
testimony here today. It was an excellent conversation and
appreciate you scheduling this, Madam Chair.
We heard apprenticeships and on the job learning are
valuable tools for providing Americans in the 21st century with
the skills they need to compete and succeed in today's rapidly
evolving economy.
Registered Apprenticeships are certainly a valuable aspect
of this effort, but we know it is not alone filling the gap
that we have today in our workplace. We just simply can't limit
students to just one tool in the toolbox. We need to think
about expanding the Registered Apprenticeship program or
including an all of the above approach to ensure that we are
able to fill these jobs and provide these lifelong jobs to the
students.
Employers know better than anyone what skills they are
looking for. We should ensure that they have the flexibility to
empower prospective employees, whether through Registered
programs, the expansion of those programs, or through other
means. There is not one pathway to success.
I was, however, very encouraged to hear each of our
witnesses, how they have worked in their communities to
contribute to a dynamic work force, how they work with
employers to meet their needs, and uphold the dignity of all
work.
We must continue down this path if we want to continue to
succeed and meet the demand for workers.
Thank you again.
And I yield back.
Chairwoman DAVIS. Thank you. And I just wanted to remind my
colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, materials for
submission for the hearing record must be submitted to the
committee clerk within 14 days following the last day of the
hearing.
And also, for the witnesses, if you were--we will get those
questions to you. I think they have to be in within 7 days, and
you have 14 days to respond to those as well. So I hope that
you will take that opportunity if it is relevant for your
comments.
And I really just wanted to thank you all for being here
today. I think you have provided a broad range of comments.
Much consensus here today and I think urgency. And that is
really what we need to have and to be able to bring to the men
and women of this country, young people as well as a wider
range of ages; that there are those programs available to them
that give them that career path that is sustaining for them and
for their families, and strengthening businesses with a
valuable pool of productive and committed workers.
So we recognize the importance of that. I know that we hope
to have additional hearings, but we also know that we need to
distinguish to a certain extent how we can proceed and how we
can move forward. And so your comments have been very helpful
in that.
And I thank you this evening. Thank you for being here.
[Additional submissions by Ms. Jayapal follow:]
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[Additional submissions by Mr. Sablan follow:]
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[Questions submitted for the record and their responses
follow:]
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[Whereupon, at 12:43 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]