[House Hearing, 116 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] STRENGTHENING OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM: LEGISLATION TO LOWER CONSUMER COSTS AND EXPAND ACCESS ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH OF THE COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ MARCH 6, 2019 __________ Serial No. 116-12 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Printed for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce govinfo.gov/committee/house-energy energycommerce.house.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 36-535 PDF WASHINGTON : 2020 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey Chairman BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois GREG WALDEN, Oregon ANNA G. ESHOO, California Ranking Member ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York FRED UPTON, Michigan DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois MIKE DOYLE, Pennsylvania MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana G. K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio DORIS O. MATSUI, California CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington KATHY CASTOR, Florida BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland PETE OLSON, Texas JERRY McNERNEY, California DAVID B. McKINLEY, West Virginia PETER WELCH, Vermont ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia PAUL TONKO, New York GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York, Vice BILL JOHNSON, Ohio Chair BILLY LONG, Missouri DAVID LOEBSACK, Iowa LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana KURT SCHRADER, Oregon BILL FLORES, Texas JOSEPH P. KENNEDY III, SUSAN W. BROOKS, Indiana Massachusetts MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma TONY CARDENAS, California RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina RAUL RUIZ, California TIM WALBERG, Michigan SCOTT H. PETERS, California EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina MARC A. VEASEY, Texas GREG GIANFORTE, Montana ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California A. DONALD McEACHIN, Virginia LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware DARREN SOTO, Florida TOM O'HALLERAN, Arizona ------ Professional Staff JEFFREY C. CARROLL, Staff Director TIFFANY GUARASCIO, Deputy Staff Director MIKE BLOOMQUIST, Minority Staff Director Subcommittee on Health ANNA G. ESHOO, California Chairwoman MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York Ranking Member G. K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina, FRED UPTON, Michigan Vice Chair JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois DORIS O. MATSUI, California BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky KATHY CASTOR, Florida H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico BILLY LONG, Missouri KURT SCHRADER, Oregon LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana JOSEPH P. KENNEDY III, SUSAN W. BROOKS, Indiana Massachusetts MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma TONY CARDENAS, California RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina PETER WELCH, Vermont EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia RAUL RUIZ, California GREG GIANFORTE, Montana DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan GREG WALDEN, Oregon (ex officio) ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey (ex officio) C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hon. Anna G. Eshoo, a Representative in Congress from the State of California, opening statement............................... 1 Prepared statement........................................... 2 Hon. Michael C. Burgess, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas, opening statement.............................. 4 Prepared statement........................................... 5 Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the State of New Jersey, opening statement......................... 6 Prepared statement........................................... 7 Witnesses Peter V. Lee, Executive Director, Covered California............. 9 Prepared statement........................................... 12 J. P. Wieske, Vice President, State Affairs, Council for Affordable Health Coverage..................................... 24 Prepared statement........................................... 26 Answers to submitted questions............................... 195 Audrey Morse Gasteier, Chief of Policy and Strategy, Massachusetts Health Connector................................. 36 Prepared statement........................................... 38 Submitted Material H.R. 1385, the State Allowance for a Variety of Exchanges (SAVE) Act............................................................ 86 H.R. 1386, the Expand Navigators' Resources for Outreach, Learning, and Longevity (ENROLL) Act of 2019................... 90 H.R. 1425, the State Health Care Premium Reduction Act........... 95 Letter of March 5, 2019, from Hon. Angie Craig, Cochair, Health Care Task Force, New Democrat Coalition, et al., to Hon. Richard Neal, Chairman, House Ways and Means Committee, et al., submitted by Mr.Schrader....................................... 105 Letter of April 12, 2013, from Mr. Upton, et al., to Kathleen Sebelius, Secretary, Department of Health and Human Services, submitted by Mr. Griffith...................................... 110 Letter of June 28, 2013, from Tim Murphy, Chairman, Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, House Committee on Energy and Commerce, et al., to Kathleen Sebelius, Secretary, Department of Health and Human Services, submitted by Mr. Griffith........ 113 Letter of August 29, 2013, from Mr. Upton, et al., to navigator grant recipient, submitted by Mr. Griffith..................... 116 List, undated, navigator grant recipients, submitted by Mr. Griffith....................................................... 120 Letter of September 30, 2013, from Mr. Upton to Gary Cohen, Deputy Administrator and Director, Center for Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Department of Health and Human Services, submitted by Mr. Griffith...................................... 123 Letter of March 5, 2019, from Deborah P. Brown, Chief Mission Officer, American Lung Association, to Hon. Angie Craig, a Representative in Congress from the State of Minnesota, submitted by Ms. Eshoo......................................... 129 Letter of March 5, 2019, from Deborah P. Brown, Chief Mission Officer, American Lung Association, to Ms. Castor, submitted by Ms. Eshoo...................................................... 131 Letter of March 5, 2019, from James L. Madara, Executive Vice President and Chief Executive Officer, American Medical Association, to Ms. Eshoo and Mr. Burgess, submitted by Ms. Eshoo.......................................................... 132 Statement of the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network, March 6, 2019, submitted by Ms. Eshoo.......................... 134 Letter of March 4, 2019, from Justine Handelman, Senior Vice President, Office of Policy & Representation, Blue Cross Blue Shield Association, to Ms. Eshoo and Mr. Burgess, submitted by Ms. Eshoo...................................................... 137 Statement of the Asian & Pacific Islander American Health Forum, March 6, 2019, submitted by Ms. Eshoo.......................... 139 Letter, undated, from the Young Invincibles to Mr. Pallone, et al., submitted by Ms. Eshoo.................................... 142 Report, ``Exploring the Impact of State and Federal Actions on Enrollment in the Individual Market: A Comparison of the Federal Marketplace and California, Massachusetts, and Washington,'' by Washington Health Plan Finder, et al. submitted by Ms. Eshoo......................................... 144 Statement of America's Health Insurance Plans, March 6, 2019, submitted by Ms. Eshoo......................................... 158 Letter of March 6, 2019 from Mary R. Grealy, President, Healthcare Leadership Council, to Mr. Pallone and Mr. Walden, submitted by Ms. Eshoo......................................... 180 Brief of March 4, 2019, ``How Affordable are 2019 ACA Premiums for Middle-Income People?,'' Kaiser Family Foundation, submitted by Mr. Burgess....................................... 182 Article of March 5, 2019, ``ACA premiums rising beyond reach of older, middle-class consumers,'' by Amy Goldstein, Washington Post, submitted by Mr. Burgess................................. 187 H.R. 1510, the Premium Relief Act of 2019, submitted by Mr. Burgess........................................................ 189 Letter of March 6, 2019, from Justine Handelman, Senior Vice President, Office of Policy & Representation, Blue Cross Blue Shield Association, to Mr. Burgess, submitted by Mr. Burgess... 193 STRENGTHENING OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM: LEGISLATION TO LOWER CONSUMER COSTS AND EXPAND ACCESS ---------- WEDNESDAY, MARCH 6, 2019 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Health, Committee on Energy and Commerce, Washington, DC. The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in the John D. Dingell Room 2123, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Anna G. Eshoo (chairwoman of the subcommittee) presiding. Members present: Representatives Eshoo, Butterfield, Matsui, Castor, Lujan, Schrader, Kennedy, Cardenas, Ruiz, Dingell, Kuster, Kelly, Barragan, Blunt Rochester, Rush, Pallone (ex officio), Burgess (subcommittee ranking member), Upton, Shimkus, Guthrie, Griffith, Bilirakis, Long, Bucshon, Brooks, Carter, Gianforte, and Walden (ex officio). Also present: Representatives Peters and Soto. Staff present: Jacquelyn Bolen, Health Counsel; Jeff Carroll, Staff Director; Tiffany Guarascio, Deputy Staff Director; Zach Kahan, Outreach and Member Service Coordinator; Saha Khaterzai, Professional Staff Member; Una Lee, Chief Health Counsel; Samantha Satchell, Professional Staff Member; Andrew Souvall, Director of Communications, Outreach, and Member Services; Sydney Terry, Policy Coordinator; C. J. Young, Press Secretary; Mike Bloomquist, Minority Staff Director; Adam Buckalew, Minority Director of Coalitions and Deputy Chief Counsel, Health; Margaret Tucker Fogarty, Minority Staff Assistant; and J. P. Paluskiewicz, Minority Chief Counsel, Health. Ms. Eshoo. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the witnesses. The Chair now recognizes herself for 5 minutes for an opening statement. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ANNA G. ESHOO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA Today is the second legislative hearing of the Health Subcommittee in the 116th Congress. We are going to examine legislation today to drive down costs and increase options in the private insurance markets created by the Affordable Care Act. Democrats made a promise to the American people to lower their healthcare costs and undo the Trump administration sabotage of the ACA. Today we are continuing to deliver on that promise by examining legislation that creates a reinsurance program for all States, funds States that did not initially set up State-based insurance marketplaces to set up these State-run private exchanges, and restore funding for patient navigators. If an individual is not enrolled in Medicare or Medicaid, does not get their insurance through their employer, or is a small business owner or self-employed, the legislation we are considering today will help bring down the cost of health insurance. The bill gives States the funding and flexibility to improve the private marketplaces created by the ACA and increase choices for Americans who purchase their health insurance from these exchanges. Representatives Angie Craig and Scott Peters have written a bill which provides funding for State-based reinsurance programs and establish a Federal reinsurance program similar to the one established in the Affordable Care Act that expired in 2016, so all Americans can benefit from lower premiums in the individual marketplace. Reinsurance programs add money to the health insurance market created by the ACA to cover the costs of patients with high medical costs such as those with preexisting conditions. This will drive down costs for middle-class Americans who don't receive the ACA tax credit. By providing payments that enroll high cost patients, many of whom have preexisting conditions, reinsurance protects against premium increases and will bring down the cost of health insurance coverage for those who buy their insurance from ACA exchanges. For anyone who cannot afford health insurance on the private market today, this bill will bring premiums down next year and help individuals afford high quality, comprehensive coverage. We will also examine the bipartisan SAVE Act introduced by Representatives Andy Kim and Brian Fitzpatrick which provides funding to States to set up State-based insurance marketplaces like the original ACA did. I am very proud of Covered California that is California's State-based insurance market. I think it is the gold standard for these programs and currently has enrolled 1\1/2\ million Californians. That is a lot of human beings that have coverage today that never had coverage before. If a State originally chose not to establish their own State-based marketplace when the ACA became law, this bill gives those States the funding they need to establish a marketplace that meets their needs while maintaining the minimum benefits established by the ACA. Lastly, we will consider Representative Castor's ENROLL Act. It provides funding for navigators who assist small businesses or self-employed individuals with guidance and information to determine the best health insurance option for their needs. [The prepared statement of Ms. Eshoo follows:] Prepared statement of Hon. Anna G. Eshoo Good morning everyone, welcome to the witnesses. The Chair now recognizes herself for 5 minutes for an opening statement. Today is the second legislative hearing of the health subcommittee in the 116th Congress. We're going to examine legislation today to drive down costs and increase options in the private insurance markets created by the Affordable Care Act. Democrats made a promise to the American people to lower their healthcare costs and undo the Trump administration's sabotage of the ACA. Today we're planning to deliver on that promise by examining legislation that creates a reinsurance program for all States, funds States that did not initially set up State- based insurance marketplaces to set up these State-run private exchanges, and restores funding for patient navigators. If an individual is not enrolled in Medicare or Medicade, does not get their insurance through their employer, or is a small business owner or self-employed, the legislation we're considering today will help bring down the cost of health insurance. The bill gives States the funding and ability to improve the private marketplaces created by the ACA and increase choices for Americans who purchase their health insurance from these exchanges. Representatives Angie Craig and Scott Peters have written a bill which provides funding for State-based reinsurance programs and establishes a Federal insurance program similar to the one established in the Affordable Care Act that expired in 2016 so all Americans can benefit from the lower premiums in the individual marketplace. Reinsurance programs add money to the health insurance market created by the ACA to cover the cost of patients with high medical costs such has those with preexisting conditions. This will drive down costs for middle-class Americans who don't receive the ACA tax credit. By providing payments that enroll high cost patients, many of whom have preexisting conditions, reinsurance protects against premium increases and will bring down the cost of health insurance coverage for those who buy their insurance from ACA exchanges. For anyone who cannot afford health insurance on the private market today, this bill will bring premiums down next year and help individuals afford high quality comprehensive coverage. We will also examine the bipartisan SAVE Act introduced by Representatives Andy Kim and Brian Fitzpatrick, which provides funding to States to set up State-based insurance marketplaces like the original ACA did. I'm very proud of Covered California, that is California's State-based insurance market. I think it's the gold standard for these programs and currently has enrolled one and a half million Californians. That is a lot of human beings that have coverage today that never had coverage before. If a State originally chose not to establish their own State-based marketplace when the ACA became law, this bill gives those States the funding they need to establish a marketplace that meets their needs while maintaining the minimum benefits. established by the ACA. Lastly, we will consider Representative Castor's ENROLL Act. It provides funding for navigators who assist small businesses or self-employed individuals with guidance and information to determine the best health insurance option for their needs. I promised that I would yield a minute of my time to Congressman Ben Ray Lujan. I'm happy to yield to the gentlemen from New Mexico for the remaining time. Ms. Eshoo. I promised that I would yield a minute of my time to Congressman Ben Ray Lujan. Is Ben Ray here? Yes, he is. So I am happy to yield to the gentleman from New Mexico for the remaining time. Mr. Lujan. Thank you, Madam Chair. Democrats made a commitment to the American people that we would lower their healthcare costs, and with their support we are now in the majority. It is the expectation of the American people that we move forward in a bipartisan way to address this major issue. Ms. Craig's and Mr. Peters' bill is strong. In fact, the bill is modeled after the reinsurance program that made its debut in the Republican repeal effort. Now what I am concerned about is what we will hear today is that congressional Republicans are more focused on interjecting an abortion fight into an unrelated debate, that they are making sure families can't see their doctors. I do not understand that, but what I do know is the Democrats are going to forge ahead in our goal to lower healthcare costs for the American people. I am ready and willing to work with my colleagues across the aisle when they want to join forward in this progress. I thank the Chair and I yield back. Ms. Eshoo. I thank the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes Dr. Burgess, the ranking member of the subcommittee, for 5 minutes for his opening statement. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL C. BURGESS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS Mr. Burgess. Well, thank you for the recognition and thanks to our witnesses. Today we are convened to discuss, according to the title of this hearing, legislation to lower consumer costs and expand access to healthcare. Legislation that my friends on the other side of the dais have put forth today is once again disappointing. I do believe there are some areas where we could have worked together, particularly on the area of reinsurance, but there was no effort to work in a bipartisan way on that issue. Republicans have supported reinsurance when coupled with additional structural reforms to improve healthcare markets and have led efforts to establish a patient and State stability fund to provide States with the funding and the flexibility that they need to successfully set up and implement cost reduction programs. While I see that much of this language may be similar to that which we have supported before, there are some critical provisions that are missing from the text. The benefits of a smart and thorough reinsurance policy would allow States to repair markets damaged by the Affordable Care Act while honoring federalism. Unfortunately, the bill before us today is particularly restrictive and does not provide States with adequate flexibility to use those funds. It also fails to include critical and longstanding Hyde protections. I have introduced H.R. 1510. It includes a responsible reinsurance policy that enables States to use funds for a wide variety of initiatives from helping high-risk individuals to enrolling in coverage to promoting access to preventive services, providing maternity coverage and newborn care. It is important to mention that this bill would also provide Hyde protections. Next, I would like to turn to the issue of navigators. As a physician, as a Member of Congress, and just your average simple country doctor, I like to base my decisions on evidence- based research. I found it interesting as I read the Democrats' memo that they are trying to sell us this legislation to increase funding for navigators without outlining the impact that navigators have had in enrolling individuals. Navigators are not a new phenomenon. We have sufficient data to show that they have been only minimally effective, spending 36 million in 2018, prior to that 63 million, all to enroll less than 1 percent of the fee-for-service market. However, CMS data shows that agents and brokers have helped 42 percent of fee-for-service enrollment plan for 2018, substantially more cost effective than navigators. The agents and brokers cost $2.40 per enrollee. The final bill before us today would provide $200 million to create State exchanges, which is another effort that has proven to be astonishingly efficient in wasting taxpayer dollars. Seventeen States have spent a total of four and a half billion dollars to establish exchanges, many of which have failed. The Subcommittee on Oversight under Chairman Upton found that the CMS was not confident that the remaining State- based exchanges would be sustainable in the long term. Additionally, it found that only one State had complied with the Affordable Care Act's requirement that all State-based exchanges publicly publish costs related to its operations. Again it is disappointing that not only none of these bills adequately address the affordability of health insurance, I am disappointed that there was only a minimal attempt to work on the reinsurance and no attempt to even discuss the other two bills. Bipartisanship means asking for my input, not just my vote. If you had asked for my input, I would have suggested that we look at language like I have introduced in H.R. 1510, a bill that includes reinsurance coupled with structural reforms to the Affordable Care Act, gives States more choice on how to repair their markets that have been damaged by Obamacare, and the legislation is, in fact, fully offset by stopping bad actors from gaming the system, and includes language that affirms the longstanding consensus that taxpayers should not foot the bill for abortions. I thank the gentlelady for the time and I yield back. [The prepared statement of Mr. Burgess follows:] Prepared statement of Hon. Michael C. Burgess Thank you, Chairwoman Eshoo. Today, we are convened to discuss, according to the title of this hearing, ``legislation to lower consumer costs and expand access'' to healthcare. Alas, the legislation that my friends on the other side of the dais have put before us today is once again disappointing. I do believe that there are some areas here where we could have worked together, particularly on the issue of reinsurance, but there was little effort to work in a bipartisan way on this issue. Republicans have strongly supported reinsurance when coupled with additional structural reforms to improve healthcare markets and have led efforts to establish a patient and State stability fund to provide States with the funding and flexibility they need to successfully set up and implement cost-reduction programs. While I see that much of this language may be similar to that which we have supported before, there are some critical provisions that are missing from the text. The benefits of a smart and thorough reinsurance policy would allow States to repair markets damaged by the Affordable Care Act, while honoring federalism. Unfortunately, the bill before us today is particularly restrictive and does not provide States with adequate flexibility to use the funds. The bill also fails to include critical and long-standing life protections that exist in current law. I have introduced a bill that includes a responsible reinsurance policy that enables States to use funds for a wide range of initiatives, from helping high-risk individuals enroll in coverage, to promoting access to preventive services, to providing maternity coverage and newborn care. It is important to mention that my bill also includes Hyde protections. Next, I would like to turn to the issue of navigators. As a physician, a Member of Congress, and as your average Joe consumer, I like to base my decisions on evidence-based research. I found it interesting as I read the Democrats' memo, that they are trying to sell us this legislation to increase funding for navigators, without outlining the impact that navigators have had in enrolling individuals. Navigators are not a new phenomenon, and we have sufficient data to show that they have been minimally effective. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid found that during the plan year 2018 open enrollment period, navigators received $36 million, but enrolled less than 1 percent of the fee-for-ervice enrollment population. In 2017, when navigators received a larger sum of grant funding, $63 million, they still only enrolled less than 1 percent. CMS data show that agents and brokers helped with 42 percent of the fee-for-service enrollment for plan year 2018. This was substantially more cost effective than navigators, as agents and brokers only cost $2.40 per enrollee. Why buy a faulty product when there's a better one on the market? Especially when, under this bill, an individual would be essentially forced into an ACA plan as navigators not required to be knowledgeable on alternative forms of coverage, such as short-term limited duration and association health plans. The final bill before us today would provide $200 million to create State exchanges, which is another effort that has previously been proven to be a remarkable waste of taxpayer dollars. Seventeen States spent a total of $4.5 billion to establish exchanges, many of which failed. The Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations released a detailed report in 2016 that found that CMS was not confident that the remaining State- based exchanges will be sustainable in the long term. Additionally, it found that only one State had complied with the Affordable Care Act's requirement that all State-based exchanges publicly publish costs related to its operations. Again, I find it disappointing that not only do any of these bills adequately address the affordability of health insurance. I am also disappointed that our friends on the other side of the aisle made only one attempt to work on reinsurance and no attempts to even discuss the other two bills. Bipartisanship means asking for my input, not my vote. I yield back. Ms. Eshoo. I thank the ranking member. Now it is my pleasure to recognize the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Pallone, for 5 minutes. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK PALLONE, Jr., A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Madam Chair. The bills we are considering today reflect Democrats' continued commitment to deliver on our promise to make healthcare more affordable and accessible to all Americans and to reverse the Trump administration's sabotage of the Affordable Care Act. This legislative hearing comes several weeks after we held another legislative hearing on bills that were important first steps in lowering healthcare costs and protecting consumers with preexisting conditions. Today we will be discussing three more bills that will reduce consumers' costs and improve access to care. And one way to ensure that people have access to healthcare is to provide them the support and information they need to make the right decision. So we will be discussing a bill introduced by Ms. Castor that would reverse the Trump administration's harmful cuts to the navigator program. The Trump administration has gutted funding for the navigator program by over 80 percent, leaving huge swathes of the country without access to fair and unbiased enrollment help. We should restore this critical funding and ensure that navigators can provide fair and impartial information on people's enrollment and financial assistance options. We also have to look at providing States another round of funding to establish State-based marketplaces. The SAVE Act was introduced by Representatives Andy Kim and Brian Fitzpatrick. As you may recall, some State legislatures who wanted to establish State-based marketplaces were unable to do so due to the opposition of the Republican Governors. In my State of New Jersey, former Governor Chris Christie, in 2012, vetoed a bill to establish a State-based marketplace for the residents of New Jersey. While all States have been negatively affected by the Trump administration's sabotage of the ACA, State-based marketplaces have been better able to weather these storms. In 2018, premiums in these marketplaces were 17 percent lower than in the Federally Facilitated Marketplace, and enrollment in these States has outpaced enrollment in the Federally Facilitated Marketplace States. The State-based exchanges framework also gives States the opportunity to tailor the program to meet the needs of their State residents, and the bill provides us another opportunity to make healthcare more affordable. And, finally, we will consider a bill introduced by Ms. Craig and Mr. Peters to provide 10 billion in reinsurance funding for States that set up their own reinsurance programs. States may also use this funding to provide financial assistance to help lower premiums and out-of-pocket costs for consumers and beyond the ACA's subsidies. Reinsurance pays for the costs of people with serious medical conditions whose healthcare costs are significantly higher than the average person. This support helps reduce premiums through the individual market, making healthcare more affordable. Seven States have successfully implemented State-based reinsurance programs through the 1332 waiver program, including my State of New Jersey. These programs have significantly lowered premiums and have had widespread bipartisan support. Now the bill that we are considering today would build upon the success of these programs, but the funding would come from the Federal Government. I believe that that is the right approach. A sustained Federal commitment is needed in order to lower costs for all 50 States and the District of Columbia. Like with the Part D program, reinsurance should be a permanent part of the individual market and it should be a federally financed responsibility. Now the bills that Ms. Craig and Mr. Peters have introduced are modeled after the reinsurance program that all the Republicans on this committee supported in the repeal bill of last year. We all agree that Congress must take action to reduce costs for middle-class consumers and we all agree that reinsurance is a good thing. And that is why I was disappointed that we were unable to get to bipartisan agreement on reinsurance. My colleagues on the other side of the aisle have made it clear that they will not support any reinsurance bill without Hyde language. There is no reason, in my opinion, to drag Republicans' anti-choice politics into this discussion. There is bipartisan consensus that reinsurance is effective in bringing down costs for middle-class consumers. A number of States under Republican leadership such as Maine, Maryland, and Wisconsin, happily took Federal money for reinsurance without raising the issue of Hyde and we should take this opportunity to allow States to make healthcare more affordable for their residents. [The prepared statement of Mr. Pallone follows:] Prepared statement of Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr. The bills we are considering today reflect Democrats' continued commitment to delivering on our promise to make healthcare more affordable and accessible for all Americans, and to reverse the Trump administration's sabotage of our healthcare system. This legislative hearing comes several weeks after we held another legislative hearing on bills that were important first steps in lowering healthcare costs and protecting consumers with preexisting conditions. Today, we will be discussing three more bills that will reduce consumers' costs and improve access to care. One way to ensure that people have access to healthcare is to provide them the support and information they need to make the right decision. We will be discussing a bill introduced by Ms. Castor that would reverse the Trump administration's harmful cuts to the navigator program. The Trump administration has gutted funding for the navigator program by over 80 percent, leaving huge swathes of the country without access to fair and unbiased enrollment help. We should restore this critical funding and ensure that navigators can provide fair and impartial information on people's enrollment and financial assistance options. We should also look at providing States another round of funding to establish State-based marketplaces. The SAVE Act was introduced by Representatives Andy Kim and Brian Fitzpatrick. As you may recall, some State legislatures who wanted to establish State-based marketplaces were unable to, due to the opposition of their Republican Governors. In my State of New Jersey, former Governor Chris Christie in 2012 vetoed a bill to establish a State-based marketplace for the residents of New Jersey. While all States have been negatively affected by the Trump administration's sabotage, State-based marketplaces have been better able to weather these storms. In 2018, premiums in these marketplaces were 17 percent lower than in the Federally Facilitated Marketplace, and enrollment in these States has outpaced enrollment in the Federally Facilitated Marketplace States. The State-based exchange framework also gives States the opportunity to tailor the program to meet the needs of their State residents. This bill provides us another opportunity to make healthcare more affordable. Finally, we will consider a bill introduced by Ms. Craig and Mr. Peters to provide $10 billion in reinsurance funding for States to set up their own reinsurance programs. States may also use this funding to provide financial assistance to help lower premiums and out-of-pocket costs for consumers, above and beyond the ACA's subsidies. Reinsurance pays for the costs of people with serious medical conditions whose healthcare costs are significantly higher than the average person. This support helps reduce premiums throughout the individual market, making healthcare more affordable. Seven States have successfully implemented State-based reinsurance programs through the 1332 waiver program, including the State of New Jersey. These programs have significantly lowered premiums and have had widespread bipartisan support. The bill that we are considering today would build upon the success of these programs, but the funding would come from the Federal Government. I believe that this is the right approach. A sustained Federal commitment is needed in order to lower costs for residents of all 50 States and the District of Columbia. Like with the Medicare Part D program, reinsurance should be a permanent part of the individual market, and it should be a Federal financial responsibility. The bill that Ms. Craig and Mr. Peters have introduced is modeled after the reinsurance program that all the Republicans on this committee supported in the repeal bill of last year. We all agree that Congress must take action to reduce costs for middle-class consumers and we all agree that reinsurance is a good thing. That's why I am disappointed that we were unable to get to bipartisan agreement on reinsurance. My colleagues on the other side of the aisle have made clear that they will not support any reinsurance bill without Hyde language. There is no reason to drag Republican's anti-choice politics into this discussion. There is bipartisan consensus that reinsurance is effective in bringing down costs for middle-class consumers. A number of States under Republican leadership, such as Maine, Maryland, and Wisconsin happily took Federal money for reinsurance without raising the issue of Hyde. We should take this opportunity to allow States to make healthcare more affordable for their residents. I look forward to the discussion today and I yield back. Mr. Pallone. So I want to yield now, the minute or so left, to Mr. Peters, if I could, Madam Chair. Mr. Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chairman or Chairman Pallone for yielding me time and thanks to Chairwoman Eshoo and Ranking Member Burgess for holding this hearing today. I am grateful to the committee for their consideration of H.R. 1425, the State Health Care Premium Reduction Act, a bill that I recently introduced with Representative Angie Craig. I would also like to thank Reps Schrader, Underwood and Kuster for their early support of the bill. Let's be honest. Stabilizing the individual marketplace may not be a bipartisan priority, but lowering healthcare insurance premiums and reducing out-of-pocket costs for working Americans certainly is. And it is widely acknowledged by both Republicans and Democrats that one of the best ways to lower premiums is to provide adequate Federal funding to create State reinsurance programs. H.R. 1425 creates a dedicated stability fund that States can use to lower premiums and out-of-pocket costs for all individuals by defraying the costs of high-cost enrollees. Our bill is expected to lower premiums for individuals by approximately 10 percent. So Representative Craig and I look forward to working with both our Republican and Democratic colleagues to provide millions of Americans with swift relief from the rising costs of healthcare, and I thank you for the time. Ms. Eshoo. I think I would now like to introduce the witnesses that are here today and welcome them and thank them for being willing to share their expertise with us. First, Mr. Peter Lee. I am going to move off of script and say to everyone that Mr. Lee comes from one of the most distinguished families in California and our country. I am going to go way back many, many years. I think it was your--was it your grandfather that founded--he was Dr. Lee--founded the Palo Alto Medical Clinic? He had five sons, all M.D.s, at least--and a daughter--well, you are ahead of me--a daughter that was also a doctor. And out of those five sons, one served in two administrations in the healthcare arena. So Mr. Lee comes to us not only with great genes, but with having implemented the ACA in California. We are really honored to have you here today and thank you for your commitment, unswerving commitment that has traveled through more than one generation of your family. You are a gift to the country. Mr. Wieske, welcome to you. He is the Vice President for State Affairs at the Council for Affordable Health Coverage. Ms. Audrey Morse Gasteier, who is the Chief of Policy and Strategy for the Massachusetts Health Connector, again, thank you. I am going to recognize each witness for 5 minutes for their opening statement. There is a lighting system. The light will be green when it first comes on, then it will be followed by yellow, then you will have 1 minute remaining, so we ask you to stay within the 5 minutes. So I am going to begin with the distinguished Mr. Lee. STATEMENTS OF PETER V. LEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COVERED CALIFORNIA; J. P. WIESKE, VICE PRESIDENT, STATE AFFAIRS, COUNCIL FOR AFFORDABLE HEALTH COVERAGE; AND AUDREY MORSE GASTEIER, CHIEF OF POLICY AND STRATEGY, MASSACHUSETTS HEALTH CONNECTOR STATEMENT OF PETER V. LEE Mr. Lee. Good morning, Chairwoman Eshoo, Ranking Member Burgess, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. I do want to note that as you see I am Mr. Lee, not Doctor, so clearly the gene pool dilutes over time, but I want to very much appreciate your remarks about my family. I serve as the executive director of Covered California and am honored to participate in this hearing to help inform your deliberations. Remarkable progress has been made throughout the country with the Affordable Care Act, but recent Federal policy actions are having significant negative effects on millions of Americans. I welcome the fact that today's hearing is about building out and improving the Affordable Care Act which is what we need to focus on. Well, Covered California, for 6 years, has effectively used all the tools of the Affordable Care Act to improve affordability for coverage, promote competition, give choice to consumers, and drive improvements in the delivery system. We have made investments in marketing, in outreach, in navigators, and the results show that we have a 20 percent healthier enrolled population which means our premiums are 20 percent healthier than in the Federal marketplace would have if they had our risk mix. We made remarkable progress in California and across the Nation, but recent Federal policy actions are posing challenges such as the Federal elimination of the individual mandate penalty, promotion of limited benefit plans, and significant reductions in marketing and outreach that don't affect California, but affect 39 States relying on the Federal marketplace. These policies are having the direct effect of raising premiums and pricing millions of Americans out of coverage. Today, California, Massachusetts, and Washington exchanges released an analysis showing a very different story of what happens in States like ours that lean in to support consumers, compared, sadly, to what has happened in consumers served by the Federal marketplace. The findings in that report are stark. Since 2014, Federal marketplace States have had a cumulative premium increase of over 85 percent. In our three States the increase has been less than half of that. This means that if the Federal Government had spent roughly--because of that the Federal Government spent roughly $35 billion--$35 billion more in premium tax credits than it would have if their premium increases had matched ours. But the biggest impact has been felt by millions of middle-class Americans who get no financial help who have been priced out of coverage. This analysis shows the importance of the mandate penalty also. California and Washington have leaned in to promote insurance. We have good risk mixes. But this last year we saw significant drops in new enrollment. The State of Massachusetts, who you will hear from more today, saw a 31 percent increase in their new enrollment. That is because they had a mandate that predated the Affordable Care Act that is in place today. Their consumers know about it. So while recent Federal actions are taking us backwards, I am encouraged that today's hearing focuses on ways to move forward and build on the Affordable Care Act. The first proposal relates to reinsurance to help stabilize markets. Reinsurance can have a profound effect on coverage affordability particularly for middle-class Americans who don't qualify for premium subsidies. It would directly benefit them by lowering premiums and creating greater carrier participation that provides market stability to encourage health plans to play. We have 11 carriers in California. Many parts of America have one or two. Reinsurance helps bring plans to the market. Now I would note, State-based reinsurance programs may work for some, but it is not a viable strategy for the vast majority of States. Most States will not come up with State funds to invest in the risk of uncertain Federal pass-throughs. H.R. 1425 would not only fund reinsurance but would allow States the option of investing in targeted ways in their States to reduce costs for their consumers. This proposal provides State flexibility, State choice, and would lower premiums across the board. H.R. 1385 would fund States that seek to establish their own marketplaces. Now, Covered California benefited from establishment funds. We got a lot of money to get started. We have paid that off many times over by reducing premiums for Californians. Other States need funds to get set up. The final legislation is to support navigator funding. As you consider this, I would look back at not only the dramatic cuts that we have seen federally, but California has a robust navigator program. That program we have funded at about $6.5 million for each of the last 4 years. But you need to consider this program in concert with our broad, $100 million investments in marketing and outreach and our support for over 12,000 licensed insurance agents. All of those should be done. All of those are necessary tools to keep robust enrollment, to keep premiums down by having a healthy risk mix. So I would close by noting that we really are at a pivotal time in healthcare. To the extent Federal policy discussions can now turn to building on, repairing, fixing, and having the Affordable Care Act work better, we are at a good place for California and for the Nation. I look forward to your questions. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Lee follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Mr. Lee, excellent testimony. Now I would like to recognize Mr. Wieske for his 5 minutes of testimony. Welcome and thank you. STATEMENT OF J. P. WIESKE Mr. Wieske. Thank you, Chairman Eshoo and Ranking Member Burgess, for the opportunity to testify on the issues surrounding the Affordable Care Act and more specifically the individual health insurance market through the proposed legislation regarding exchanges, reinsurance, and navigators. When I spoke before the committee in February of 2017, I focused on the nature of the individual market. Since that time, little has changed. It has remained a very small market, less than 5 percent of almost every State's population, dwarfed by employer coverage, Medicaid, and Medicare. In 2019, we have seen a drop from the very sharp rate increases, but premium rates remain too high. Of course the subsidized insurance market consumers have largely been insulated from those rate increases. In some cases, consumers even have the option of choosing no premium Bronze plans due to the issue of silver loading, a process by which a State allows insurers to apply cost-sharing reduction expenses exclusively to on-exchange plans. The question before the committee is the same as it was in 2017. The ACA has done many good things for consumers, but it has also created new problems. So how can we fix this market? I think you can see from my written testimony that we support the same goals. We need to stabilize the insurance market. We need more outreach. We need more States' flexibility and State ownership of the ACA. Please allow me a brief aside. Last November I attended an InsureTech conference. It was filled with innovators from across the globe looking at insurance problems. And I was struck by one---- Ms. Eshoo. Excuse me. What was that conference? I didn't get---- Mr. Wieske. An InsureTech conference. Ms. Eshoo. InsureTech? Mr. Wieske. InsureTech conference, correct. Ms. Eshoo. I see. Mr. Wieske. InsureTech conference, and I was struck by one presentation in particular. It was from an entrepreneur who had figured out how to provide crop insurance to rural Africa through their nonsmartphones. What was fascinating about this is that this innovator had found a way, is unlikely to make any effort and make any money off his effort, but that wasn't the goal. The goal was to provide financial stability to rural farmers in Africa. A financially stable farmer is better able to provide for his family and for his neighbors. The solution did not come from government. It came from a private company looking to solve a problem. Similarly, the goal of reinsurance, exchanges, and navigators is not just to provide money for those programs, but to stabilize the market, encourage consumers to make an informed decision in purchasing health insurance coverage. While I still hope you read my eight pages of testimony, I can encapsulate it this way. CHC has long supported reinsurance and ACA 1332 waivers to improve the markets, including Collins- Nelson and Alexander-Murray efforts in the Senate who recognize that reinsurance doesn't reduce costs directly, it shifts who pays. We addressed the long, hard work of improving risk pools and lowering costs in a letter we recently sent to Senator Alexander which we would be happy to make available to members of the committee. Navigators, again our experience in Wisconsin was that navigator approach didn't have a huge impact. In my written statement I recommend both closer engagement with traditional brokers and agents as well as new technologies to help consumers find coverage. Finally, we recommend going beyond State exchanges to allow private exchanges and web-based alternatives and direct enrollment to connect people with coverage. Again thank you for the opportunity to testify and I will be happy to answer any questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Wieske follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Ms. Eshoo. We thank you, especially for not attempting to read eight pages of testimony into the record. Now I would like to recognize Ms. Audrey Morse Gasteier. Am I pronouncing your name correctly? Ms. Gasteier. Gasteier, that is right. Ms. Eshoo. Thank you very much for being here and you are recognized for 5 minutes. STATEMENT OF AUDREY MORSE GASTEIER Ms. Gasteier. Thank you. Good morning, Chairwoman Eshoo and Ranking Member Dr. Burgess, and members of the subcommittee. My name is Audrey Gasteier and I serve as Chief of Policy and Strategy at the Massachusetts Health Connector. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today and share perspectives for Massachusetts on expanding coverage and lowering costs. Massachusetts has a unique history of bipartisan health insurance expansion efforts spanning several decades. The advantage of time has given us perspective on what health reform and State marketplaces can look like when given stable regulatory environments and tools to promote affordability and enrollment. This historical view may be useful as the subcommittee builds upon the initial years of ACA implementation. Today Massachusetts enjoys a strong health insurance market and the Health Connector is a high functioning and competitive marketplace with nine carriers and 280,000 enrollees. Three key building blocks have been critical to our market's success. First, one of our most effective tools for promoting affordability is our ConnectorCare program for individuals earning up to three times the poverty level. ConnectorCare provides additional State subsidies in addition to ACA subsidies. Enrollees have access to zero or low-dollar premiums, zero or low-dollar copays, and no deductibles. This level of affordability assistance helps retain widespread enrollment among a population that would otherwise be at higher risk of uninsurance. Second, for decades our market has featured the basic protections consumers have come to expect following the ACA, such as protections for people with preexisting conditions, guaranteed issue and renewability, community rating and strong standards for minimum medical loss ratios. In addition, our State has its own market rules and coverage standards and engages in robust market monitoring which together results in little room for noncompliant plans, keeping our risk pool stable and our residents in coverage that is there for them when they need it. Further, since 2007, the Commonwealth has had its own individual mandate ensuring that people do not buy coverage only when they expect to need it, driving up premiums for everyone else. Third, the Health Connector has seen firsthand the powerful role that outreach and consumer assistance play in drawing residents into coverage. Outreach is an integral part of successful coverage expansion and an essential component of stable risk pools by drawing healthier risk into the marketplace, improving affordability for all. The Health Connector runs a robust navigator program partnering with 16 organizations with longstanding, trusted presence in their communities. These three building blocks of reform have resulted in a number of successes for our residents. Specifically, Massachusetts has achieved nearly universal coverage with 97 percent of our residents now covered. The Massachusetts Health Connector had the lowest average premiums of any marketplace in the country in 2018 at $385 per member per month before any subsidy was applied. We note for the subcommittee that these lowest-in-the-Nation premiums are situated within a State market with robust benefit requirements and protective cost-sharing limits, clarifying that cost savings need not come at the expense of consumer protections. Further, we note that Massachusetts' overall healthcare system is one with relatively high medical costs, illuminating that the marketplace model has the potential of bending the curve for consumers even while the State and Nation still have work to do in bringing down the underlying healthcare costs that drive premiums. We support this subcommittee's interest in ensuring that States have resources and tools to foster stability and affordability. We support the proposed State options for further advancing affordability for consumers whether they are low and moderate income, and affordability would be achieved through a State wrap program designed to meet State and local needs or a reinsurance program that could lower premiums across the commercial market helping unsubsidized enrollees as well. Each State's affordability challenges are likely to be unique and it is important for States to have flexibility to address the needs of their populations and market conditions above and beyond the baseline protections of the ACA. With respect to the navigator proposal, the Connector's experience suggests that a robust navigator program is a vital component of ensuring coverage for the populations that need the most help getting insured and that the work they do contributes to the overall stability of the commercial market risk pool. Lastly, the Health Connector recognizes the subcommittee's interest in supporting States that are interested in establishing new State-based marketplaces. The successes Massachusetts has experienced would simply not be possible without a State-based marketplace. Working side by side, day in and day out with market participants, State-based marketplaces can successfully bring the promises of health reform and coverage expansion to life. Thank you again for the opportunity to speak with you today and your interest in hearing about our experiences in Massachusetts. I look forward to working with you and welcome your questions. [The prepared statement of Ms. Gasteier follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Ms. Eshoo. Thank you very much. Congratulations to each one of you. You did really well with your allocation of 5 minutes. My question of the three of you is we are considering the three bills today, 1386, 1425, and the SAVE Act. Do you all support the three bills? Do you think that they are going to make a difference to reduce costs and allow for more choice and more people being enrolled and being insured with good health insurance policies? Mr. Lee? Mr. Lee. Covered California doesn't take positions on legislation and so I am speaking more to the substance of what is in the bills that may take different forms. I noted in my testimony reinsurance is a valuable tool, reduces premiums and also directly addresses the issue that the individual market will always be more expensive than the rest of the market. Bringing those costs down through reinsurance is a good vehicle. I noted also that navigators provide a vital piece of a broader whole for market---- Ms. Eshoo. I do. I think we all agree to that. Yes. I have learned that people know exactly what their premium costs, but they don't know always what they are buying. Mr. Lee. Right. Ms. Eshoo. And so navigators are so important to assist people and answer the questions that they have. Mr. Wieske? Mr. Wieske. I think I have some concerns with the navigator piece. I mean I think we have seen some value. Ms. Eshoo. Why? Mr. Wieske. We have seen some limited value in the State of Wisconsin related to navigators, so, you know, I think as a program there is some value there. I think it has been much more effective to use agents. I think our understanding is most of the navigators, a lot of the navigators and certified application counselors in the State of Wisconsin actually refer a lot of clients to agents. Ms. Eshoo. What about the rest of the country? You are naming Wisconsin. What about the rest of the country? Mr. Wieske. My impression from other States is that there are some concerns with the navigator program in other States as well. Ms. Eshoo. But it is in and around whether they are licensed agents. Is that what you are referring to? Mr. Wieske. Correct, licensed insurance agents. Ms. Eshoo. Thank you. Ms. Morse Gasteier? Ms. Gasteier. Like Mr. Lee, we don't take positions on specific legislation, but the tools and the concepts I think promoted here are ones that we recognize in our own experience that the availability of navigators' in-person assistance, being a State-based marketplace, and tools like reinsurance are very powerful and evidence-based. Ms. Eshoo. I want to just take a moment and recognize all the white coats that are in the hearing room today. Welcome to you and thank you for your professionalism and what you do for people across the country. I don't know where you are from, but I have no doubt that wherever you are from that you do magnificent work, so thank you. We all want to thank you for that. What of the three of you believe would be the most effective tool in order to create affordability for those that are in the private market and to afford a good health insurance policy? What are the most effective tools? I know you don't want to take a position on legislation, but just maybe spend a minute each telling us what you think is the most effective tool. Mr. Lee. So then I will start and---- Ms. Eshoo. The middle class has taken a hit. There is no question in my mind about that. And that is not acceptable for any of us. Mr. Lee. I think that you are absolutely right, Chairwoman, that middle-class people who make more than 400 percent of poverty, but that doesn't mean they are rich, have been hit hardest. They don't get Federal subsidies. So the two things that could be done, well, there is three things, I think, could be done. Number one is reinsurance. That lowers premiums for everybody. It saves the Federal Government money, but it saves money for people that over 400 percent of poverty. Second, targeted subsidies. Governor Newsom in California has proposed providing State subsidies and tell the Federal Government act to get rid of the cliff for people that make from four to six hundred percent of poverty. Ms. Eshoo. Thank you. Mr. Lee. We have people in northern California in your district who are being forced to spend 30 percent of their income to afford insurance. They can't afford it. So directed subsidy--and the third thing is market and outreach. Health insurance must be sold. You need to remind people, cajole, nudge, those three elements are needed; would make a vital difference. Ms. Eshoo. Mr. Wieske? Thank you, Mr. Lee. Mr. Wieske. I would just add onto the discussion that I think there needs to be some movement to fundamentally improve the risk pool. I think California has indicated they have a good risk pool, Wisconsin on the other hand does not. The average age is much higher than the average ages across the---- Ms. Eshoo. Are you from Wisconsin? Mr. Wieske. I am from Wisconsin, yes. Ms. Eshoo. I see. Mr. Wieske. So that is---- Ms. Eshoo. What was my first clue? All right. Mr. Wieske. So, and across the country it varies State to State, but it can be very expensive. So changing the dynamics of that risk pool to get more younger folks in is a sort of key. Ms. Eshoo. Healthy people, good mix. Ms. Morse Gasteier? Ms. Gasteier. Thank you. I would agree on reinsurance and keeping risk pools stable and broad and not allowing for the proliferation of plans that will siphon healthier people out of the risk pool. And I think the flip side of that is outreach to the people who because they are price-sensitive and maybe younger, people who don't anticipate having health needs, whether you have tools that promote continuous enrollment or whether you are doing very proactive outreach to those populations to bring them in, I think those can be very powerful tools. In Massachusetts we have also found that applying additional subsidies to lower-income individuals can, in fact, incentivize very competitive dynamics for carriers that also bring down costs for unsubsidized enrollees as well, although there is more work to do there. Ms. Eshoo. Thank you very much. The Chair now recognizes the ranking member, Dr. Burgess, for his 5 minutes of questioning. Mr. Burgess. Thank you, Chairwoman. And I would also just like to make a general statement to all of the physicians who are in the audience. This is the committee who brought you Cures for the 21st Century, so those tools that you are going to have at your disposal that no generation of doctors has ever known, this is the committee that helped you achieve that goal. This is also the committee that brought you the Affordable Care Act, so there is obviously some good along with the bad. But you all are smart and young and you have got good computers, and I trust that you will help us figure this out. Mr. Lee, let me just ask you on the individual mandates since you referenced it, we had another panel of witnesses here earlier that Mr. Tom Miller from AEI who suggested that zeroing out the penalty for the individual mandate was as a practical matter no significance because no one really paid the penalty in the individual mandate. Do you have a sense of the number of people who paid the individual mandate penalty in California and what the dollars collected were? Mr. Lee. In California, because of the removal of the penalty, we think we have dropped coverage by about 300,000. Mr. Burgess. Prior to the---- Mr. Lee. The penalty, paid penalty in the last year we know was about $500 million. So there were people that paid it that did not take insurance, but also it provided that economic nudge to about 300,000 people that the market has dropped and because of that I note last year our premiums went up about 9 percent. Half of that increase was health plans pricing for a sicker population because of the drop of people because of the mandate. Mr. Burgess. $500 million and they still have no money to put to their healthcare and they still get stuck with silver loading. Mr. Wieske, you have--and it is really a shame you couldn't read the entirety of your statement into the record. I may just take the time to do that myself. But there is one line here that really caught my attention. And in your discussion of navigators you talk about a number of factors that have contributed including a robust economy, very low unemployment, which should lead to higher rates of employer-based insurance coverage. In the last 2 years we have seen a significant increase in the number of people employed, people coming out of the ranks of long-term unemployed to perhaps having the availability of employer-sponsored insurance. I have not gotten, been able to get the Congressional Budget Office to give us coverage numbers for what would be the result of that increase in employment. Do you have a sense of that? Mr. Wieske. So I don't. Unfortunately there is a significant lag in looking at coverage issues, and with the time and the CBO it is usually about a 2-year lag, so it will take some time to figure out. Mr. Burgess. So as if--and I have a number of questions and I will have to ask for written responses. Also in your written responses, if you have an inclination as to where we might look for that information outside of the CBO if there is any outside group that might have looked at that, I think that would be helpful information for the committee to consider. Let me, because I am going to run out of time, let me ask you, Mr. Wieske--and I appreciate your testimony here in February of 2017. Many people forget that we actually had hearings before we did our healthcare bill, and your testimony on the experience you had on risk pools in Wisconsin was very helpful in crafting that part of the bill that dealt with reinsurance, that plus the Health Affairs article that dealt with the hybrid plans in the State of Maine, the risk pools reinsurance hybrid that came about in that State. So yesterday--this phenomenon of silver loading, I mean I get more complaints. Yes, I get people who are concerned about preexisting conditions, but the overwhelming number of complaints I get in my office are people who are outside the subsidy window, phenomenon of silver loading that affects them. In my district, a teacher and a policeman with two children are both in the individual market because of the way insurance is structured in our State for those professions, and they don't get any help. They get no subsidy. So the cost of the benchmark silver plan increases--``What, me worry? I have a subsidy, so my premium didn't go up''--but that teacher and policeman now are really, really strapped. So are there ways that this Congress and this administration can increase the options for those Americans? Mr. Wieske. So the silver-loading issue is caused by the cautionary reduction subsidy. It is not paying the cautionary reduction subsidy. There is no budget, Federal budget number that was attached, no appropriation, and so that would affect the silver loading from that standpoint that, if that were funded, then States would not be required to do silver loading. Mr. Burgess. Let me just ask unanimous consent to include for the record the article from the Kaiser Family Foundation and yesterday's Washington Post, the Daily 202, which referenced how risk pools and reinsurance may actually help this situation, and again urge members to look at H.R. 1510 as a vehicle to achieve that, and I will yield back. Ms. Eshoo. I thank the ranking member. Is Mr. Pallone--no, not here. I now have the pleasure of recognizing the gentlewoman from California, Ms. Matsui. Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Chairwoman Eshoo and Ranking Member Burgess, for holding this important hearing, and to our three witnesses for being here with us today. And I am particularly happy to welcome Mr. Lee, who is from my home State of California and who I see an awful lot in Sacramento. I was struck by a few things that all our witnesses agree upon. We all agree that the ACA has resulted in numerous positive changes for Americans, consumer protections, expanded access to coverage, and historic lows in the number of uninsured Americans. We also agree there is an opportunity to build on the law, the remaining gaps in coverage, affordability challenges for consumers, and market challenges for insurers. As we heard from Mr. Lee, California has made a significant investment in marketing outreach and enrollment assistance for consumers. A key component of this investment was funding the California navigators program, which plays an important role in enrolling populations especially underserved populations in health insurance. A new law taking effect this year in California bans the sale of short-term, limited-duration insurance in the State. Last month our committee held a hearing on these types of junk insurance plans and learned how consumers can be duped into buying these products without knowing they don't cover preexisting conditions or certain essential health benefits. Mr. Lee, does California's navigator program help Californians enroll in these types of junk insurance plans? Mr. Lee. Thank you for the question. Absolutely it does not. They cannot. The short-term plans, actually, in California are not allowed as a matter of law and we make sure that our navigators and our certified agents are promoting policies that actually provide good essential benefits. Ms. Matsui. So you don't at all advocate, great. Like California, we have heard about the success of Massachusetts at achieving nearly universal coverage. As we heard from Ms. Morse Gasteier---- Ms. Gasteier. Gasteier. Ms. Matsui [continuing]. This happened through strategic investments, outreach, and policy. Ms. Morse Gasteier, in your testimony you note that the Massachusetts Health Connector uses data to better understand and reach individuals without coverage and communities at greater risk of uninsurance. Can you elaborate on how you reach these populations and help them enroll in affordable coverage? Ms. Gasteier. Thank you for the question. We do, we use both national U.S. Census Bureau and local sources of data to understand population and demographic dynamics around populations that have a higher risk of uninsurance and then we use that data to actually select our navigators that we include in our program. We work with 16 navigators and they are strategically selected to help us make inroads in those particular populations. Not just because of their physical presence and their sort of trusted role in the community, but because they have particular tools to overcome the barriers that we think people in those specific populations may be facing, whether it is language barriers or accessibility to in- person assistance. Ms. Matsui. That is wonderful. I am pleased that Covered California--and we have Mr. Lee here joining us to share in the State's success story. As we heard today, Covered California has been on the front lines of implementing the ACA, serving over 3.4 million Californians since 2014, lowering our eligible uninsured rate to 3 percent, and working to keep our premiums about 20 percent lower than the national average. Mr. Lee, what are the unique characteristics of Covered California that allowed you to steadily increase enrollment and keep costs low and maintain competition? Mr. Lee. Well, first I would note we aren't unique. We were thrilled to do this report jointly with the State of Washington, the State of Massachusetts, other States that have leaned in, have used all the tools---- Ms. Matsui. Right. Mr. Lee [continuing]. Specific to their State. But I would note it has been number one, focusing on market and outreach. Number two, having common patient-centered benefit designs that when people sign up for our plans whether they pick Kaiser, Blue Shield, or Anthem, they have the same knowledge that when they go to see a doctor there won't be a deductible they need to pay before they see the doctor. That means consumers see the value of insurance. That, and finally I would note we actually focus on the underlying cost of care. We have contractual requirements with our 11 health plans to have them look at the delivery system making sure people get the right care at the right time. Those factors together we think are part of our formula for building what we hope will be success for over the long term. Ms. Matsui. Thank you. Ms. Morse Gasteier, your State has also taken a proactive approach going back to before the ACA. What lessons can you continue to apply from Massachusetts to the Federal marketplace? Ms. Gasteier. So I would say that we focused again on trying to bring in healthy, low-risk people into the marketplace by doing data-driven outreach to them and also really work to have a very stable regulatory environment where we keep our eyes on the road in terms of keeping the markets stable. We work really closely with our carriers which is something that we are able to do as a State-based marketplace in being in very close contact with them. And I would just say more broadly in Massachusetts we have had sort of a bipartisan cross-stakeholder support for our health reform and that has continued through the 13-year experience of our coverage expansion efforts which has been critical. Ms. Matsui. Well, thank you very much and---- Ms. Eshoo. I thank the gentlewoman. I now would like to recognize the gentleman from Michigan, and a gentleman he is. He is a former chairman of the full committee, Fred Upton. Mr. Upton. Well, thank you, Madam Chair. It is a delight to be here, obviously, and I appreciate the testimony from our witnesses. Mr. Wieske, I would like to go back to your very beginning of your statement talking about how States could have more flexibility, and to date I would note that 14 States have submitted waivers under section 1332. Eight of the States have active waivers, seven of which are for State reinsurance programs. And I would have to say that it is my understanding that these waivers are budget-neutral to the Federal Government. Is that correct? Mr. Wieske. That is correct, sir. It is a requirement of the 1332. Mr. Upton. And it is also true that States have demonstrated that they can take steps under section 1332 to stabilize their markets without new Federal money? In fact, the pass-through funding or savings generated from those market stabilization programs can be reinvested onto the program further reducing premiums. Is that correct as well? Mr. Wieske. Correct. We use the program in the State of Wisconsin to do exactly that. Mr. Upton. Yes. Now, Dr. Burgess--I am sorry he left, but I know he is coming back--yesterday introduced legislation that would provide additional Federal resources for States to establish market stabilization programs. And it is my understanding that that would then incentivize additional premium reductions across the country; is that right? Mr. Wieske. Yes. I think coming from Wisconsin and seeing it on the front lines, I think States need a lot of flexibility and having a one-size-fits-all program has never sort of worked. Mr. Upton. I would note that CBO previously projected that one of the most effective ways to stretch premium reductions is to have a State option with a Federal fallback, which is in a sense what Dr. Burgess said does, or a Federal default allowing for States to innovate as they see fit. Would you agree that States should be given choice instead of control when it comes to repairing their markets' damage? Mr. Wieske. Yes. I think in my experience in Wisconsin as deputy commissioner there, I think it was important for us to have a lot of flexibility and I think a lot of the problems that we face in the ACA would have been made better if we would have had more flexibility in how we implemented it. Mr. Upton. In your experience in Wisconsin, what other States would you highlight are on that same path? Mr. Wieske. So our reinsurance program was copied from Minnesota's almost whole cloth. We made some changes which was moved off of Alaska's. So I think in a lot of cases States are talking to each other. And we talked when I was there, still there, we talked to a number of States about our program as we were going through the development. So I think through the NAIC, National Association of Insurance Commissioners, and other pieces, there is a lot of discussion among States to sort of get commonality and to figure out what the best approaches are and the best approaches are not necessarily the same State to State. Mr. Upton. Great. Yield back, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Eshoo. I thank the gentleman. I now would like to recognize the gentlewoman from Florida, Ms. Castor. Ms. Castor. Thank you, Chairwoman Eshoo, for scheduling this hearing on how we lower healthcare costs for our neighbors and provide meaningful coverage for American families. I want to start by thanking our hardworking, nonprofit partners who have fought with us for affordable healthcare over the years and to ensure that independent, unbiased navigators are available to American families, especially Rob Restuccia, the longtime executive director of Community Catalyst, who died over the weekend from pancreatic cancer. Rob was a champion of empowering consumers to fight for better healthcare and he will be missed. And I want to thank the witnesses. After reading your testimony I was really struck by how difficult it has been for American families to keep up. The Trump administration has really socked it to them. We were making such good progress on lowering the uninsured rate and lowering healthcare costs and now, you know, it is like death by a thousand cuts. Removing the individual mandate and promoting junk insurance plans, a tax on the insurance pool, whittling away the protections for preexisting conditions just have really socked it to consumers in their wallet and we want to get back to doing everything we can to lower healthcare costs for them. The Trump administration also has slashed funding for our independent, unbiased navigators who are very effective. Yes, they work in concert with agents and brokers, but you need them both on the field. There is just no substitute for that independent, unbiased advice. So my bill, H.R. 1386, Expand Navigators' Resources for Outreach, Learning, and Longevity, the ENROLL Act, will secure vital services for navigators so that they can continue serving our neighbors. And I want to thank my colleague Congresswoman Blunt Rochester along with Representatives Wilson, Crist, and Murphy for being original cosponsors on this important bill. Families across the country have been aided by unbiased navigators to help them determine the best health insurance option for them. Unfortunately, the Trump administration attacked this crucial initiative by slashing it by over 80 percent since 2016, as well as big cuts to outreach and advertising efforts. So my ENROLL Act will guarantee that navigators remain on task to ensure that our neighbors understand the financial assistance and coverage options available to them. Specifically, the ENROLL Act will fund the navigator initiative in the Federal ACA marketplace at $100 million per year. It will require HHS to ensure that grants are awarded to organizations with demonstrated capacity to carry out the duties of a navigator. It would reinstate the requirement that there be at least two entities at each State; that they have a physical presence in the State. Oftentimes, navigators determine that the more appropriate and affordable option might be the Children's Health Insurance Program or it might be Medicaid, so it would clarify that navigators can provide that advice on enrollment. In Florida we are very fortunate that the University of South Florida has been the lead navigator and has worked with other nonprofit partners all across the State and their efforts have paid great dividends to families across my State. We continue to lead in the number of enrollees in the healthcare marketplace. But they have told me this year that those dramatic cuts had a very serious impact. That they were not able to get out especially into rural areas to make sure that families understood what their options were and had the ability to sign up. This directly impacts affordability for everyone. And, Ms. Gasteier, could you speak to the importance of a broad-based insurance pool to lowering costs and the role that navigators play in that? Ms. Gasteier. Thank you for the question. We believe in Massachusetts that we all do better when everybody is in the same market and the same risk pool with strong comprehensive standards sort of holding up that market so that people know that the coverage they have they can count on. And we see outreach as an effective, proven method for drawing in people who might otherwise think that they can go out without coverage who may tend to be younger people. And so we have found that those efforts are very important both for those people so they are protected, even though they may not expect something to happen to them and that we think that that has been part of why we have been able to keep our premiums so stable in Massachusetts. Ms. Castor. And, Mr. Lee, do you agree with that? Mr. Lee. Very strongly and including in particular your note that it is not just navigators, it is navigators with agents. Twelve thousand agents in California, but we have 100 nonprofit groups we directly fund to fill in the gaps. We target them to serve areas that are not well served by agents. Ms. Castor. And that investment helps everyone by lowering costs; is that correct? Mr. Lee. Absolutely. We have lower costs in California because of the effective outreach, and again we use navigators to target where agents aren't effectively reaching. So it is not an either-or, agents in California get paid $130 million in commission payments. It is a lot of money. We pay our navigator program about 6.5 million. And so, yes, they enroll fewer than agents, great, but we target them to outreach to Spanish- speaking communities, African American communities, LGBTQ communities, rural communities. So that is the role that navigators--to pick up the gaps that agents and other outreach isn't addressing effectively otherwise. Ms. Castor. Thank you very much. I yield back. Ms. Eshoo. We thank the gentlewoman for her legislation. I now would like to recognize Mr. Shimkus, the gentleman from Illinois and a good friend and my E911 partner and---- Mr. Shimkus. Yes, ma'am. Ms. Eshoo [continuing]. Away we go. Mr. Shimkus. Thank you, Madam Chairman. This is a great hearing, and I appreciate you all being here. Mr. Lee, I want to--and the way I like to do it, I like to breeze through the testimony, but I like to hear the questions and answers and I scribble a lot of notes and questions taken off of--so you mentioned that because the individual mandate was not enforced, 300,000--is that the right--300,000 dropped off. And then I think I heard through the other questions is that California, and I think my colleague Ms. Matsui mentioned California has a law that says you can't have other than the standard ACA-type plans. So these 300,000 have no option then, is that--I am trying to figure where they--are they covered somewhat? I mean, a lot of States have options. I have been through the whole debate. I was here when we passed. A lot of folks liked the plan they had, the Congress and the President decided to change that. So then they got thrown into plans that they didn't like that was so too costly and the premiums were high and the deductibles were ridiculously high. And they just begged for me--and I have four from just recently in October and November and December--to just go back to the plan they had in the past, a lot of my constituents. So I am trying to figure out where is the--does these 300,000 have no coverage? Mr. Lee. Our understanding is the vast majority go to be what we call bare. They go without insurance. And again, this happens also in the employer market. About 20 percent of the people who---- Mr. Shimkus. Yes, I got that. But wouldn't something be better than nothing? Mr. Lee. In many cases not, because the issue about that something, often that something, a short-term plan may mean that if they get cancer it is not covered. So often it is faux coverage. The point of encouraging people to sign up for coverage that matters is to encourage people to get coverage that will be there for them when they get sick. Mr. Shimkus. Right. And we had a hearing earlier as was identified and I brought up associated health plans as an option with either associations--I mean California is a big State, Illinois still a relatively big State. If our farm bureau decides to either State-wise to develop a covered pool in associated health plans that has the same requirements as outlined under the ACA, does California support association- type health plans? Mr. Lee. Again I don't speak for the State of California. What we have done in California as a State though is try to make sure that the insurance offerings will be there when people need them. And so examples of, there are products today in California that are under sharing ministries that mean you buy it and there is a $250,000 lifetime cap per incident. Mr. Shimkus. Right, OK. Fine, I got that. Mr. Lee. And so that is part of the---- Mr. Shimkus. I want to get to another couple questions, but I would just from my experience in my district is many people lost insurance that they liked and was thrown into insurance that they couldn't afford and they couldn't use. And I want to go to Morse Gasteier for a second, because you mentioned how Massachusetts really changed the Affordable Care Act in one interesting provision. When we had this debate in the legislation, what was mandated was if you get sick you can immediately buy. And I think I heard either in your testimony or in response to a question you said we have changed that. How have you changed that and what did you do? Ms. Gasteier. Thank you for the question. I am not sure we have changed anything. We had our own individual mandate already in Massachusetts prior to the Affordable Care Act so there was---- Mr. Shimkus. Can people--I think one of the problems was people were if they got sick today they could go buy insurance, which when you are talking about pools and people buying in that escalates costs. Ms. Gasteier. It does. So we have always used open enrollment periods to try to make sure that people are not sort of, quote unquote, jumping and dumping and coming in and out of coverage just when they get sick or think they may need an expense. And we have found that having tools like that in the market where there is sort of an expectation that everybody is always in the pool has helped keep---- Mr. Shimkus. So I may have misunderstood that response to your question. Ms. Gasteier. That is fine. Mr. Shimkus. So then I apologize. That is what I wanted to ask. Mr. Wieske, this silver loading--no. I don't want to ask that question. I want to ask, do you have empirical data on the benefits or the lack of benefits that you have seen in that navigator population? I am a big dealer and broker, folks. I understand spreading it out. But, really, the question is cost- benefit analysis and are they really delivering for what versus kind of what we hear? Mr. Wieske. There may be a difference between States that have an exchange and can control their navigator programs and States that don't. What we saw as a problem in Wisconsin is we never knew what was going on with navigators despite requirements for licenses, despite requirements for CAC licenses and registration of assisters. We had numerous occasions where we had to investigate navigators who we later found out in some cases were and in other cases were not navigators, were holding this out. So it was a little bit confusing for us despite the fact that we had some regulatory authority. Mr. Shimkus. Thank you, Madam Chairman, appreciate the time. Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Mr. Shimkus. I have to excuse myself from the hearing for a bit, but certainly all the doctors in the audience will be pleased to know that we have M.D.s on both sides of the aisle. And so Dr. Raul Ruiz is going to take this chair. Mr. Ruiz [presiding]. And with that I would like to recognize Congressman Schrader from Oregon for 5 minutes. Mr. Schrader. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the hearing today. It is a great hearing, actually, indicative of hopefully where this Congress is going to go in terms of fixing some of the problems, a few of the problems with the ACA and recognize that it serves a great deal of value for a lot of folks. And I am a proud cosponsor of 1425. It is probably the single most important thing we can do to help stabilize the individual marketplace which, based on the Republicans' work in the last Congress, would be a goal of theirs as well as a goal of Democrats, so a nice area of bipartisanship. I wanted to also note that earlier this week I led a letter with 76 other of my colleagues from the New Democrat Coalition--Chairman Pallone, Chairman Scott, and Chairman Neal--making it a priority for this Congress to bring down costs and make sure that healthcare is affordable to everybody through the Affordable Care Act, which as I said went a long way to getting us there. So I would like to ask consent, unanimous consent, that we can enter that letter into the record. Mr. Ruiz. So ordered. [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Schrader. OK. Thank you, Mr. Ruiz, Dr. Ruiz. I would also like to note for the record that Blue Cross Blue Shield is also a big supporter of 1425 because they recognize the value of reinsurance also. I guess a basic question for Mr. Lee, a number of States pointed out by the ranking member and others have established their own reinsurance programs through the 1332 waivers, which I think is a great thing, everyone has testified, and I think everyone here acknowledges is a great opportunity for States to innovate, you know, not a one-size-fits-all. But there are probably some limitations and some opportunities that a Federal reinsurance program or high risk pool type of thing could offer. Could you talk a little bit about how that might relate to what some of the States who are already doing some reinsurance programs and how it might help them? Mr. Lee. Yes, I would be happy to, thank you. So first, as you note, seven States have done the State-based reinsurance, but they range in what the Federal Government has matched to a low of 30 percent, meaning the State had to come up with 70 percent of the dollars, other States got a hundred percent, others 70. And most States are struggling with their own State budgets, so that is one uncertainty. The other thing I would flag is the 1332 provisions, as was noted earlier must be deficit-neutral. Now I understand the importance of deficit neutrality, but that actually means a State that uses a program and enrolls more people is hit because enrolling more people will affect the deficit. The goal of the Affordable Care Act should be to get more people covered. And that is one of the reforms I think that isn't on the table, but in thinking about to use a 1332 waiver mechanism that in essence punishes a State for getting more people insured is a bad mechanism. So those are two problems. The other is--and I want to really appreciate the thoughtfulness in your legislation--is some States will say reinsurance, reinsurance if we use California by the formulas in your bill would reduce premiums by about 7 percent. That is a lot. But it might be better invested to target those people just from four to six hundred and your allowing a State the flexibility to do that I think gives State flexibility, which is exactly what many States like California would look to do. Mr. Schrader. Thank you very much for the response, and I agree. I mean, there is a nice synergy here between the Federal Government supporting some of these programs in a thoughtful way and enabling the States to use it in a flexible manner that best serves their needs. That was the genesis of the work that the New Democrats did with their solutions over politics in the last Congress. It is the genesis of the bipartisan legislation came out of the Problem Solvers Caucus. It included reinsurance, had the cost sharing subsidies, and expanded exactly what you are talking about, the 1332 waivers. But it kept the essential benefits package that you guys have also acknowledged is critical so that consumers aren't being deceived. And the more people you get into the marketplace, the more the risk is shared, the less cost shifting that goes onto these individual marketplace people that are suffering, if you will, under these premium/deductible increases while other people are benefiting. The last comment I would make real quick is to the Hyde language. I mean I really hope that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are willing to move past that. I would point out that in our previous legislation, whether it was the ACA or the Problem Solvers one, we did not try and get rid of the Hyde Amendment, you know, that has been a longstanding agreement, or by both sides of the aisle. We recognize people have different faith-based concepts and support that. I think it is a little unfortunate that some of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle are trying to, you know, prevent States from using their own funds or nonprofits' funds or individuals' funds in the arena of family choice. That is unfair. That is an expansion of the Hyde Amendment that I think makes fixing the Affordable Care Act and fixing the marketplace, getting at the preexisting condition thing a real problem. And I yield back. Thank you. Mr. Ruiz. Next is Congressman Guthrie. Mr. Guthrie. Thank you very much. Thanks, Chairman, for yielding. I appreciate the opportunity and all of you to be here today. I want to focus on the background of the State-based marketplaces. The State-based marketplace grants were awarded between 2010 and 2015 in compliance with the law. No planning or establishment grants could be awarded after December 31st, 2014. I think we all agree with that. In all, CMS awarded over 5\1/2\ billion to 49 States, the District of Columbia, and four territories for the purpose of planning and establishing health insurance exchanges. The available money was unlimited, the amount of money was unlimited, and in definite authorization and appropriation the 5\1/2\ billion included grants for exchange planning, exchange establishment, early innovators and administrative supplements to any of these grants. Every State except Alaska applied for these grants. Florida and Louisiana were awarded planning grants but later returned their entire grants. Other States returned some of the money they received but kept some. For 2018 planning year, 34 States had Federally Facilitated Marketplaces, 12 States had State-based marketplaces, and 5 States had State- based marketplaces using the Federal platform. So in all, 17 States have 12 based marketplaces or State- based marketplace that uses the Federal platform. Those 17 States accounted for roughly 4.5 billion of the 5\1/2\ billion, but only 12 States had their own State-based marketplace. So in summary, of the 5\1/2\ billion dollars awarded in grants, 12 States have exchanges. So, Mr. Wieske, when you with Wisconsin's insurance department--and this gets--I think you talked about some innovative things you wanted to do when Congressman Upton asked you questions. But my question is, when you were with Wisconsin's insurance department, if you were given a slice, your slice of the 5.5 billion without all the mandates that came with it, what creative and efficient ways would you choose to utilize Federal dollars? Mr. Wieske. We actually started going down that path at one point and we actually are one of the States that returned the money. What we found was there was some lack of flexibility in the ability for us to design the exchange and it was going to be very expensive. And let me be more specific. We were looking for a single-door entry into both our Medicaid and our State system. We were looking a variety of other pieces to make it easier for consumers. Unfortunately, the requirements that the Federal Government had in place made it impossible for us to continue and we ended up dropping off of that. So I think at that time we were looking at a single-door entry, I just didn't think we under the Federal rules think it was possible. On top of that, the cost of doing it for a smaller population in a State like Wisconsin where there is about 200,000 people enrolled in the exchange, if you look at $20 million a year to spend that is $100 a person, $100 a person to be able to afford the exchange. That is a very expensive fee on top of what the overall costs were. So the risks were very high for us as well. Mr. Guthrie. Thanks. When we were debating the Affordable Care Act and repeal and replacement of it, Wisconsin came to the forefront in preexisting condition coverage and a lot of debate here was talked about what Wisconsin did and how people who had, particularly cancer survivors and so forth, had better coverage under the Wisconsin pre-ACA model than after the mandate, after the ACA. Would you kind of talk about what you guys did for preexisting conditions? Mr. Wieske. Yes. I think the important message here, I think, from a State perspective is that States have an interest in insuring their residents as well. I think both, you know, everybody here at the table understands that and believes that. And Wisconsin actually had a very comprehensive high-risk pool. You could see any doctor in the State. We subsidized that high- risk pool. It was expensive, make no mistake. It was more expensive than standard coverage because we didn't subsidize it, so there should have been pieces that--there were pieces that could have been improved upon. But I think we still have some folks who have an interest in going back to that. However, moving forward, you know, it is clear that the ACA has provided some subsidies for folks who had affordability issues in that market as well. So, you know, Wisconsin could have done a bit more if they had more flexibility. Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. And, Ms. Morse Gasteier, you talked about continuous coverage and tools for ensuring continuous coverage. I understand the open enrollment gives an incentive. Is there other tools that you would suggest? I mean just in open enrollment if I have guaranteed issue and I don't sign up and then I get sick, then I can buy health insurance coverage when open enrollment comes again. I get you are in it for the interim. Is there other tools that you would suggest to be able to do? Ms. Gasteier. Thank you for the question. I think we take the allure of affordability very seriously in Massachusetts and have tried to construct a very competitive marketplace that in addition to those tools incentivizing people to keep continuous coverage we see as drawing people into the ranks of the insured through our exchange which covers 280,000 people now. And I have noted some of the policy features of the way we have approached our subsidized program also has benefits for unsubsidized individuals as well who also have access to these lowest-in-the-Nation premiums. So we see all those tools as working together, those incentives through our individual mandate to incentivize coverage as well as making sure affordability is of paramount significance and presence for people in our market. Mr. Guthrie. Well, thank you. My time has expired and I yield back. Mr. Ruiz. Thank you. Representative Kuster, you have 5 minutes. Ms. Kuster. Thank you very much. And thank you to our panel for being with us. I want to start by associating myself with the remarks of Representative Schrader. I think we do have options to shore up the Affordable Care Act and they are bipartisan and we should work together to get that done. I am very concerned about the efforts of this administration to sabotage the Affordable Care Act, and I do agree that some of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle are trying to throw, really, a monkey wrench in terms of the status quo of the Hyde Amendment and trying to disrupt our ability to provide health insurance for all Americans. I want to talk about H.R. 1425, the reinsurance bill, and I am a proud supporter cosponsor with my colleagues Angie Craig and Scott Peters. Why would a State--and I will direct this, Mr. Lee, at you--why would a State seek to develop its own reinsurance program if there was a Federal reinsurance? That is a place to start. Mr. Lee. A really good question, I think, that a State wouldn't. If the mechanism was reinsurance they would probably go with a Federal administration. The issue is if proportionately a State could get the same amount of funds that would have been used for reinsurance and instead target it in a different way, States might do that. I gave the example of our Governor Newsom has said we want to bring back a penalty and expand subsidies, targeting people right above the cliff. We have working middle-class Americans; I am sure, in New Hampshire as well in California that really need help. Reinsurance lowers costs for everybody, saves the Federal Government a lot of money, but it may make a State, for a particular State to say we want to target particular populations, but it would not make sense to me. I can't imagine a State that would take the money and just do reinsurance. Ms. Kuster. And I agree with you we want to target that. I was visiting with a hospital the other day that has dropped the uninsured population showing up at their hospital from 9 percent down to 3 percent, but it is how to get at that 3 percent, the working low-income people and younger people, honestly. You mentioned the increased riskiness of the individual market making reinsurance a tool to control costs. Is there a point at which the market becomes too risky for even reinsurance to work--and again back to the sabotage by this administration--making these markets unstable? Mr. Lee. I think there is. I am not sure what it is, but you look at it again--Massachusetts, California, Washington, other States with State-based marketplaces--we have maintained enrollment over the last years. Federal marketplace States have seen mammoth drops in new enrollment. Many of those States have seen premiums rise so high that people without subsidies are largely only sick people because healthy people have been priced out entirely. Reinsurance would help. I don't think in many of those States it would help enough. A 7 percent reduction in premiums when those States have seen an 85 percent premium increase in the last 5 years is good, but is it enough, probably not. And so I think one of the challenges, it is reinsurance is a tool, but it needs to be part of a broader issue of doing outreach, doing outreach, a whole range of things that in much of the Nation is not currently happening. Ms. Kuster. And I want to get out the sabotage again because they have created a catch-22. This administration is sabotaging the Affordable Care Act and then turning around and saying rates have gone up. But you mentioned the proliferation of junk health plans and other efforts by the Trump administration to sabotage. Are you concerned that the efforts of this administration over the last year may push these markets past a tipping point, and again tying into your comment about how reinsurance can be helpful? Mr. Lee. Well, I think absolutely encouraging healthy people to buy products that look cheap but might not be there for them when they get sick both is risky for those individuals that buy the products and damages the risk pool, raises costs for everybody. I do think--I am not sure what a tipping point is, because while we continue to have the subsidies people that get subsidies will always have a market. The only problem is without doing marketing they won't even know it is there. Ms. Kuster. And I do have legislation around the 1332 waivers that to try to keep us from reaching that point. Ms. Morse Gasteier, as a New Hampshire neighbor to Massachusetts I am especially interested, why didn't Massachusetts seek a 1332 waiver for reinsurance? Ms. Gasteier. It is something we have looked at. Massachusetts, you know, looks at different options for flexibility and if we find opportunities that can help our market in terms of affordability and stability, you know, we are interested in those so long as they don't, you know, deteriorate any of the important market conditions or consumer protections that we have long held as critically important. Our market right now is largely stable. We will continue to look at opportunities for reinsurance. But as Mr. Lee noted, it does require at present a lot of State resources to invest in these 1332 waivers. So it is something we will continue to look at, but to date hasn't struck us as compelling for our market. Ms. Kuster. Well, and hopefully if we can get this bipartisan legislation passed you will have that option, so thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair. Mr. Ruiz. Thank you. Now Representative Griffith, you have 5 minutes. Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I do appreciate it. This committee had significant concerns about and accordingly extensively studied the navigators program in the previous administration. And I would like to introduce into the record the following letters sent by the committee in 2013: an April 12, 2013 letter to Secretary of HHS Kathleen Sebelius; a June 28, 2013 letter to then-Secretary of HHS Kathleen Sebelius; an August 29, 2013 letter sent to 51 grant recipients in 11 States that received 61 percent of navigator dollars at the time and a list of those grant recipients who received the letter; and a September 20th, 2013, letter to then-Deputy Administrator and Director of the Center for Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight, CCIIO, at CMS, Gary Cohen. May that be admitted, without objection? Mr. Ruiz. So ordered. [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Griffith. During plan year 2017, navigators received more than $62 million in grants and enrolled only 81,426 individuals, less than 1 percent of the total enrollees but at a cost of over $750 per person. By contrast, agents and brokers assisted with 42 percent of federally facilitated exchange enrollment for the plan year 2018, which cost the FFE only $2.40 per person or per enrollee to provide technical and training assistance. So, Mr. Wieske, I have questions about whether we should, you know, be putting more good money after bad results. H.R. 1386 would redirect a hundred million annually to the failed navigator program. Based on your experience in Wisconsin, can you speak to whether the navigator program was a good investment for taxpayers there? Mr. Wieske. Look, what we saw in the State is if you look at the other lines of insurance they have moved away from sort of the face-to-face. They have moved into different methods to get customers. And while navigators have some value, certainly, in certain populations, I don't think we had a feeling that they had a strong presence in our rural communities that were also largely uninsured and in other spots. So, you know, we felt that agents were much more effective and that there were other methods to encourage enrollment. Mr. Griffith. Thank you. During your time as deputy insurance commissioner of Wisconsin, did Wisconsin experience any fraud, waste, or abuse within the navigator program? Mr. Wieske. So we had a number of cases that we had to investigate. Mostly people who were posing as navigators who were not, in fact, navigators, that had problems. We didn't actually have any problems, we had a---- Mr. Griffith. So you didn't have any problems with the real navigators, it was with the fake navigators. Mr. Wieske. Real navigators. We had problems with fake navigators, correct. Mr. Griffith. All right. And based on your experience with the navigator program, do you believe that redirecting a hundred million annually to the navigator program as H.R. 1386 intends to do would be a wise investment for the taxpayer? Mr. Wieske. I think we are hoping to encourage more flexibility in the way consumers can sign up for coverage, should get them where they actually buy coverage today. Mr. Griffith. All right, I appreciate that. I did think it was interesting to note that several of my colleagues have talked about the cost of the insurance. Mr. Lee spoke about 85 percent in most of the Federal markets, the price has gone up in the States that have their own markets that is less than half of that, about 39 percent, in his written testimony, and that this really affects the middle-class family, the average family that are above that 400 percent of poverty level rate. What is interesting about that is that when this plan was being discussed, and it is one of the things that we have to look at when we are looking at the new promises to lower rates, people of my district were promised--that the President came to the district when he was campaigning and said he was going to reduce the average cost of healthcare for the average family by $2,500 a year. And now we are talking about if we pass new bills we might get a 7 percent reduction in an 85 percent increase. Clearly we are not anywhere near the goals that this plan promised and we are experiencing--and my constituents complain all the time. And so I appreciate you mentioning that, Mr. Lee. You know, their copays have gone up, their out-of-pockets have gone up, and their insurance premiums have gone up and they have just been hit hard and it is a whole lot more expensive than what they were facing before Obamacare. Hopefully we can find some bipartisan resolutions to bring down these costs, but I don't think that it can ever get to that point where the families actually see, average American family sees a reduction under Obamacare, as he promised at Virginia High School in my district, a $2,500 decrease. I yield back. Mr. Ruiz. Ms. Kelly, you have 5 minutes. Ms. Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you all for your testimony today. Since the Affordable Care Act's passage, approximately 20 million Americans have gained health coverage through the laws' various coverage protections. An additional nine million low- and moderate-income Americans receive health insurance subsidies that help them pay for healthcare. In 2019, more than 7 in 10 consumers on the ACA marketplaces can get coverage for $75 or less per month after tax credits. These tax credits make healthcare affordable for millions of Americans. Ms. Morse Gasteier, thank you for your testimony today. You discussed Massachusetts' subsidy program known as ConnectorCare which supplements ACA subsidies and helps your State's residents pay for healthcare. You briefly mentioned how the program benefits consumers who are not eligible for subsidies. Can you describe how the program helps lower premiums for all enrollees in your State? Ms. Gasteier. Absolutely. Thank you for the question. So our program ConnectorCare provides subsidies, extra State subsidies on top of Affordable Care Act subsidies and further brings down the cost of premiums and cost sharing for individuals up to 300 percent of the Federal poverty level. And those products that become available through that program are built on top of a commercial silver market tier plan. And what the structure of the program does is it strongly incentivizes participating carriers to lower premiums to compete to be in that program because they show up to as the lowest cost plan and they get a lot of enrollment by being very cost- competitive. The benefit for unsubsidized individuals is those low-base silver plans then become available to unsubsidized enrollees as well. And in Massachusetts we also have small businesses in the same risk pool, so small businesses also benefit from those lower premiums that carriers are competing to get the attention of price competitive shoppers with. So that is one of the ways the program itself is helpful both to those low-income enrollees who are enrolled in the program as well as middle- class unsubsidized enrollees as well and small businesses too. Ms. Kelly. Thank you. For other States that are looking at this, what are some of the challenges that they might face? Ms. Gasteier. So of course coming up with the funding to create those State wrap dollars is critical, so I would think if another State were pursuing something like this that would be sort of priority one for them to determine how to finance that. We, I think are very advantaged by being a State-based marketplace. In administering something like this we are able to aggregate all the different funding streams, the Federal subsidies, the State subsidies, the enrollee contributions and we are able to do that by doing premium aggregation which is a benefit of being a State-based exchange. And so States that are pursuing things like this would need to think about the mechanics of how it all works together and we would certainly be happy to provide technical assistance to any State interested in that. But I would say resources are the top order issue for a State pursuing something like this. Ms. Kelly. And just share how you did come up with the resources and just--OK. Ms. Gasteier. Absolutely. So it was a number of different funding sources that the State identified and this was all a part of our original State reform effort back in 2006. So we worked with our Medicaid program and Federal partnership with CMS. There are a number of State-based revenue streams that come into a trust fund that our Connector administers. And so that has kind of gone back to 2006 and then we restructured the program in 2014 to complement the Affordable Care Act. Ms. Kelly. Thank you. And I want to thank you and I commend you for all the work you are doing to help make healthcare affordable for your State's residences. A lack of funding is certainly challenging for States which are interested in setting up similar programs, but hopefully you will get some phone calls. Ms. Gasteier. Thank you. Ms. Kelly. Thank you and I yield back. Mr. Ruiz. Thank you. Mrs. Brooks, you are up for 5 minutes. Mrs. Brooks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Wieske, in your testimony you mentioned that many insurers who were offered coverage in the individual market just a few years ago have left. Can you discuss further why, from your studies, why these insurers are finding business in the individual market untenable? Mr. Wieske. Yes, I think in the State of Wisconsin they lost roughly $500 million in the individual market and that made it absolutely unaffordable for them to provide coverage. I think we saw a market that just became--it was interesting. In my home city of Green Bay, the second-least-cost silver went up 105 percent from 2016 and 2017. And that became--2017 to 2018-- that became an untenable sort of solution. And the concern I think that the insurers had was that the market had deteriorated so far that they didn't want all of the risk even in a given region. So it was just unaffordable for them to continue to maintain coverage. Mrs. Brooks. Can you elaborate on ways in which the section 1332 waivers have actually increased access to care that have those approved waivers? Mr. Wieske. And I will say, you know, in my home State, since I worked on it directly in my former role, so we had a $200 million reinsurance program that we went through in a bipartisan effort through the legislature and got it passed. That reduced the premiums by 11 percent over where they would otherwise have been, a net 5 percent decrease year over year, so not just a decrease of the increase, but an actual decrease year over year on average. And we believe that that expanded coverage in the State of Wisconsin from where it otherwise would have been. Mrs. Brooks. Can you talk a little bit about what else the Federal Government might be able to do to increase enrollment in health insurance aside from spending more money on marketing and navigators? How else can we be bringing people into-- because we all want people to have access to health insurance and understand their options, but what else might we be doing? Mr. Wieske. Sure. And in my prior role I think, you know, we dealt with life insurers and health and P&C insurers. And if you look at those other lines of insurance they are becoming increasingly active in other spaces to provide coverage and becoming increasingly active in their consumer's life to provide broader opportunities. There are even groups that are having individuals in shopping malls to download apps in order to buy coverage. And people are purchasing their entire coverage on an app, through their phone, and getting everything delivered. That seems to be, you know, while there is some availability, and there is some availability in the health space, that doesn't seem to be as much widely available in the individual market as it is in other lines of insurance and in employer coverage. So I think a lot more flexibility on the State level for States to be able to do some different things and to have different options, because States operate very differently and look very differently. Massachusetts is very different than Wisconsin and California is very different than Wisconsin as well. Mrs. Brooks. I am curious, Mr. Lee, excuse me. Do you have any other ideas of how we might be increasing enrollment in healthcare? Mr. Lee. Yes. First, I would note that we in California have 11 carriers, have had since day 1. Massachusetts, I believe, eight; Washington nine. So the experience of many States that have not done marketing things that have worse risk pool is unstable for plans. We want a market that works for consumers which means plans competing, so that is number one, competition works. Number two, I would note, and I mentioned it earlier in my testimony having patient-centered benefit designs. In California, our standard benefit designs mean there isn't a $2,000 deductible between patients and their primary care doctor. That means even healthier people don't say it is not worth me having insurance. They see value. The third thing I would note is subsidies. Healthcare as many of us have noted is too expensive in America. And even at what Massachusetts has done, below 400 expanding subsidies, above 400 percent subsidies--California, we issued a report to our legislature on how to improve affordability. A lot of it is subsidies, it is reinsurance with a penalty, but it is too expensive. People need financial help and I would encourage the committee to look at this report as options. Mrs. Brooks. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Ruiz. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes himself for 5 minutes. Thank you all for your testimony. Since day 1 the Trump administration has taken actions that have increased premiums and out-of-pocket costs for Americans. I am just going to list a few here since there has been so many administrative actions to change, repeal, and sabotage the ACA. In 2017, the Trump administration stopped the cost-sharing payments that helped reduce out-of-pocket costs for low- and middle-income Americans. This act alone increased premiums by 20 percent. Health insurance companies and CEOs said that it would, the action was taken, and they did. While subsidized consumers are largely protected from these premium increases, unfortunately many unsubsidized middle-class consumers bear the brunt of this and have of these premium increases. Last year, the administration expanded these junk plans, harming Americans who need comprehensive coverage and get their health insurance through the ACA. They offer these very inexpensive premiums, relatively speaking, but they don't cover much so deductibles are very high and a lot of out-of-pocket costs are incurred by the patients. In States that opt not to regulate these plans, consumers will see their premiums increase and their options dwindle. The administration issued new 1332 guidance that would allow States to raise healthcare costs for individuals with preexisting conditions and undermine the consumer protections for people with preexisting conditions. The administration sabotages raising the cost of healthcare for hardworking Americans. Mr. Lee, I understand that 2018 premiums in California increased by double what it would have otherwise been because the Trump administration terminated these cost-sharing payments. Is that correct and can you elaborate? Mr. Lee. Absolutely, it is correct. But I think it is really important to note that stopping direct cost-sharing payments meant that States across the Nation did what is called silver loading, but it is actually a CSR surcharge. Plans have to pay for that benefit. What we did in California is direct our plans to not put that surcharge on the off-exchange product. So in California and many States, unsubsidized individuals did not have to pay that 12 percent surcharge that plans had to put on to cover their costs of that program which is required. Mr. Ruiz. Did other States that couldn't do that were those costs then given to the consumers? Mr. Lee. In many States they had policies to protect off- exchange individuals, other States did not. Some of the concerns that we have with the potential of Federal policy to ban silver loading is it would shift the cost of paying for a required program on unsubsidized Americans and lower coverage, raise costs for everybody. Mr. Ruiz. Can you discuss how these actions by the Trump administration has impacted access to affordable healthcare particularly for Americans who are not eligible for the ACA subsidies? Mr. Lee. Well, again the---- Mr. Ruiz. Do you have any numbers in terms of people who-- -- Mr. Lee. I don't have numbers, and again there is a number of policies that have had big effects, the CSR rollback and caused confusion, many States have worked around that. Bigger issues in Federal marketplace States are not doing marketing and promoting plans that don't offer coverage that encourage healthy people to buy a product that they think is a good deal that isn't. Mr. Ruiz. Yes. Mr. Lee. It is going to cost them later. It costs all of us in the near term. Mr. Ruiz. Ms. Gasteier, can you describe the impact of the Trump administration's termination of these cost-sharing payments on your State's residents' access to affordable coverage? Ms. Gasteier. Yes. So similar to California, we did everything we could to try to avoid that outcome where the Trump administration stopped making those CSR payments which they announced right before the beginning of open enrollment 2018. But we had worked with our Division of Insurance to prepare for a plan B in the event that they did that. Similar to other States, we permitted carriers to add that load of CSR value onto the silver tier plans only on exchange and then we worked with the population of impacted, unsubsidized people to make sure they understood they had other options. But it was incredibly disruptive to our market, of course, and Massachusetts actually stepped in to cover the cost exposure of our carriers in the last quarter of 2017. Mr. Ruiz. One of the things that I want to make clear is that oftentimes these cost-sharing reduction payments get characterized as industry bailouts. They are not industry bailouts, because they are point of care only when needed by people who only meet certain criteria to help them pay for their care. So it is not a health insurance bailout, especially when health insurance companies are making record profits during this entire time. I yield back the time and next speaker is Mr. Carter from Georgia. Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank all of you for being here, we appreciate your attendance. Mr. Wieske, I am going to start with you. You testified before this committee, I believe, before the subcommittee in February of 2017 and talked about how States could improve our healthcare system and the role that they could play in improving it. Beyond reinsurance, what are some ways that you think we could use stability funds to help patients in the exchange marketplace? Mr. Wieske. Yes, I think from the perspective that I came from then and the perspective that I come from now, I think there are ways to design more affordable benefit options for consumers to add some flexibility. I think there are ways to provide some risk sharing. I think if you look at some of the issues that we have seen with younger folks who are not signing up for coverage, you know, we may have 13 carriers in the State of Wisconsin, but they are regional and in some cases we are seeing no younger folks signing up because of value propositions. Redesigning those sort of subsidies, I think re-looking at the way we, you know, the cost-sharing reduction subsidy issue related to whether or not you use, you know, payments or whether or not you use an account-based solution that would provide some value to consumer, I think there are ways to sort of, you know, for States to become laboratories of democracy and experiment and find out what the best solution would be similar to the way Massachusetts started. Mr. Carter. OK. Well, thank you for that. Let's move on to the State-based exchanges bill, the one that we are discussing here. And correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that you of the 12 State-based exchanges that you said that only half of them received, that over half of them received a D or an F grade; is that correct? Mr. Wieske. Yes. I think we had some issues with the level of information that is available through the exchanges. And this is part of the reason why we support looking at some private competitive versions in the State and new ways to enroll. That, you know, what we are looking at now is different than what we looked at in 2014 and time has moved on for a lot of the ways consumers shop. Mr. Carter. And I believe you said that almost three- fourths of them were worse, or scored worse than the Federal exchanges. Mr. Wieske. Yes. And we are seeing that you know, States are certainly making efforts to improve, but it is a very expensive process and it is very intensive. And the people who are bearing the cost of those in a lot of cases, either the State through general tax revenue or more likely it is through the consumers who are purchasing coverage through the exchange for access to that Web site. Mr. Carter. OK. All right, let's move on to talk about the navigators. In 2017, we spent 62\1/2\ million dollars on navigator grants and it yielded us only a 1 percent increase in ACA enrollment out of those grants? That doesn't seem like it is a very efficient use of money to me. Mr. Wieske. Again what we have seen in other lines of insurance and in other places that there are different ways for people to get access to coverage, so it is not just that. So I think navigators are important, a small important piece of that to do outreach for underserved consumers, but consumers are buying their coverage in different ways. And a 22-year-old, 27- year-old is not going to go into a navigator in the same way other folks are. Mr. Carter. Right. And the same thing in rural areas. Am I correct? Mr. Wieske. Correct. Correct. Mr. Carter. So that is really something we need to be concentrating on, younger people as well as our rural areas. Mr. Wieske. Mm-hmm. Mr. Carter. Well, thank you for that. I appreciate it. Mr. Chairman, and I realize you are sitting in for the chairman, so but I do have to get this on record. And that is here we are in our third hearing in the subcommittee that has the broadest jurisdiction over healthcare of any subcommittee in Congress, and yet already the Oversight and Reform Committee has had a drug pricing hearing. The Ways and Means Committee has had a drug pricing hearing and they are on their second one this week. The Senate Finance Committee has had two hearings. And this week, the Senate Committee on Aging is having two hearings on drug pricing. Now this committee, the Energy and Commerce Committee, has a record of working in a bipartisan fashion. We have come up with Cures. We have come up with 21st Century Cures. We have come up with a number of different things in a bipartisan fashion. Can you give me an idea or at least relate to the chairman an idea of when we are going to start talking about drug pricing that impacts all---- Mr. Ruiz. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Mr. Carter [continuing]. Americans and it is a bipartisan issue? Mr. Ruiz. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And I recognize you are the one pharmacist in our committee. Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. Mr. Ruiz. So I appreciate your concern. It reminds me of a scene in ``The Karate Kid'' where the Master told the Karate Kid, patience, Daniel-San, patience. Drug pricing will be a priority in this committee. In fact, the first hearing is going to be next week and we are going to tackle this issue straight on and you are going to be gleaming with happiness when we do. Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back, Daniel- San. Mr. Ruiz. Great. Next, Ms. Blunt Rochester, please. Ms. Blunt Rochester. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the panel. Over the past 2 years, the Trump administration's funding cuts have prevented marketplace navigators from providing counsel to consumers looking to enroll in health insurance plans that work best for them. In Delaware, only one navigator organization received Federal funding for 2019 open enrollment, making it even harder for Delaware families to sign up for coverage. Navigators help communities in my State learn about their coverage options and enroll in affordable healthcare. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation study, 40 percent of uninsured Americans are unaware of the marketplaces and over 75 percent of consumers sought help from navigators because they either lacked confidence to apply on their own or needed help understanding their plan choices. For many of the 24,000 Delawareans participating in the individual marketplace, enrollment specialists are a trusted source they can rely on when making deeply personal decisions about their health insurance plan. Ms. Gasteier, I understand that uninsured Americans are less likely to be aware of the availability of coverage or even that subsidies can help them pay for coverage. Is that true? Ms. Gasteier. That is correct. We found that in Massachusetts and we work with our navigators to make sure that we have in-person resources available to educate people about how affordable options can be for them and people are often surprised when they find out what they qualify for. Ms. Blunt Rochester. And can you describe how gutting this funding for the program, the navigator program, impacts enrollment, because we just heard from Mr. Carter that it was only a 1 percent increase in enrollment. Can you talk a little bit about that? Ms. Gasteier. Absolutely. So that doesn't square with what our experience has been in Massachusetts where our navigators provide immense in-person support in the communities that need the most help getting into coverage. So just as an example, our navigators this past open enrollment period held 400 informational events around the State educating people about their options, and we find that the uninsured population even in a well-covered State like Massachusetts is always churning. It is a new group of people that need assistance and so their in-person presence in those communities where they are sort of trusted leaders for many other services are really key. I would also like to note that navigators do more than just get people into coverage once and then walk away. They provide year-round support to people who need to make updates to their income information, add a baby, had a life change, and we find that that assistance for particularly low-income populations is key to not just getting into coverage but staying covered as well. Ms. Blunt Rochester. You know, I was going to ask you, you brought up the term ``churning,'' and I saw that in your testimony and was going to ask you if you could expand a little bit on the concept of churning, the population churning. Ms. Gasteier. Absolutely. So we find in Massachusetts, again even with a less than 3 percent uninsurance rate, the uninsured population is a mix of some people who are chronically uninsured, but also people who have gaps of 6 months, 12 months in between other kinds of coverage who kind of fall through the cracks. And that could be because somebody loses a job and loses job-based coverage, somebody who moves to Massachusetts from another State and doesn't really know kind of where to go for help. And so we try to kind of catch people, you know, people who may be weighing a COBRA option if they are leaving a job, or people who may be in between some other kind of life circumstance, getting a divorce, et cetera. And we find that that kind of active presence to make sure that the new people coming into the ranks of the uninsured we are there to catch them right away. Ms. Blunt Rochester. Excellent. And my last question was really another thing I noticed in your testimony was about the diversity of your State, but also all of the players that are involved in helping to do the outreach. You mentioned everything from focusing on 21 different languages to the different community-based organizations, 16 of which--can you talk a little bit about that as well? Ms. Gasteier. Absolutely. So like most States, Massachusetts is diverse and we have very dense urban population areas as well as rural areas in the western part of our State and our navigators are spread out to be present in places where we know there is a higher risk of uninsurance. And, for example, in urban areas we find language access and awareness about affordability programs is a key thing for those navigators to work on. In our rural areas we will work with navigators to make sure they are sending people out into the community. So in our more rural Greenfield area, for example, the Franklin County Community Health Center will send their folks out to drive 20, 30 minutes to meet people at food pantries and farms and make sure they are providing the kind of assistance people in those less populated areas need. Ms. Blunt Rochester. Thank you so much. I yield back. And well, before I yield back I did want to say I am a proud cosponsor of this bill and thank Ms. Castor for that and also the support on the MORE Health Education Act. Thank you. Mr. Ruiz. Thank you. Now, Mr. Long, you have 5 minutes. Mr. Long. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate also my friend Larry Bucshon, here, next to me who yielded his place in order. I was a little late and missed the gavel. I was actually cleaning up a spill out in the hallway and somebody said did you spill something? And I said no, but I am cleaning it up so somebody else doesn't fall. So, you know, no good deed goes unpunished, so I was late for the gavel. Mr. Wieske, if memory serves, when we were talking about implementing the Affordable Care Act and talking about navigators, it is in the back of mind it seems like navigators were not allowed to be navigators if they had any background in the insurance field. And to me that would be kind of like taking your car to a mechanic, but oh, you have to pick a mechanic that has never worked on a car before. So that being said, you said that the loss of agents in the individual health insurance market has created many problems and that navigators are just not a substitute for driving enrollment. Could you talk about the differences in how agents and brokers operate compared to navigators both before and after consumers purchase their insurance and why are not navigators a substitute for agents? Mr. Wieske. Yes. When we looked at creating our own navigator program, which by the way in Wisconsin we are going to call badgigators, we saw the same issue that you saw that there was some limited ability for folks with ongoing industry background to be able to be a navigator, so that created a concern. I think in the individual market we have seen insurers stop paying commissions to a lot of agents in Wisconsin. Again that reflects at $500 million of lost revenue as they have exited the market. We may have 13 carriers but they are regional in nature. They are all small carriers, so those expenses are very high. That makes it difficult for the folks in the community to be able to access sort of coverage and expertise. And the expertise that we require a navigator to have in Wisconsin in their license is nowhere near what we require what an agent is required to have. Mr. Long. You also note that the Federal navigator program operates largely outside of the current healthcare system and in many cases the navigator program is centered around large population centers which we kind of talked about earlier in not serving the rural areas. What effect does this have for those rural communities and how important is the role of agents and brokers in advising consumers out in these rural areas? I represent a lot of rural areas in Missouri. Mr. Wieske. We had two sort of issues. We had navigators come in who were under a navigator grant that we had no idea existed and were papering a local community with, papering a local community and we were never told, they were never registered. They turned out to be licensed through a different entity so they were OK, we had some concerns with that. I think rurally, I think in places like Rhinelander, Wisconsin where my wife is from, there is just not as much availability. There is just not as many people. They have to drive hours just to get to a dermatologist, let alone anything else. But that is an issue in those reasons that they are primarily served by their local insurance agents. Mr. Long. And could you talk about how the medical loss ratio is affecting agents and brokers? Is it inhibiting agents' and brokers' ability to operate? Mr. Wieske. Yes. I think again in Wisconsin prior to us doing the $200 million reinsurance program, our insurers had loss ratios in excess of a hundred percent after the various government programs provided reinsurance back to them. That means that you know, the medical loss ratio, those losses made it unaffordable for them. They had to cut expenses somewhere and largely they have cut it out of agents. And I think in other States where you are cutting it closer to the 80 percent, we have seen agents, you know, the loss of agents serving individual consumers, you know, across the country. Mr. Long. And do you think that instead of focusing solely on navigators, which enroll less than 1 percent of the total enrollees for the plan in the year 2017, we should be considering amending the medical loss ratio provisions to ensure greater access to agents and brokers in order to drive enrollment? Mr. Wieske. Yes, I think that would, you know, from our perspective I think that would provide some value. And I think on top of it, I think allowing some flexibility in enhanced direct enrollment and some private exchanges, some other folks who are incentivized to find people who are uncovered and have some incentives to get there. It is certainly, you know, different approaches work in different States so what works in California and Massachusetts may not work in Wisconsin. But I think incentivizing States to have a different approach would make some sense. Mr. Long. OK, thank you. And once again I would like to thank my friend Larry Bucshon for giving me his slot here. And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Mr. Ruiz. Thank you. Mr. Cardenas, you have 5 minutes. Mr. Cardenas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank all of you for testifying today and thank you for bringing your expertise and your perspectives on this very important issue. Since the ACA's passage I would like to remind America that 20 million Americans have gained coverage that otherwise didn't have it before then. The uninsured rate fell from a high of 18 percent in this country to 11 percent at the end of 2016. What is unfortunate is that this Trump administration has been actively undermining the law and attacking Americans' access to healthcare. For example, the administration cut their advertising enrollment budget from $100 million to $10 million, then they gutted funding for the navigator program by 80 percent. This program helps American families learn about the coverage options that are available to them. As anyone can tell you, understanding different healthcare plans can be difficult and, thankfully, under the Affordable Care Act we have these navigators, these medical professionals who can guide people over the phone on the different options they have to protect their families is very important. This program is critical for people who might have difficulty understanding the difficult options or who might be short on time, for example, single patients working multiple jobs, families already struggling with their finances, and Americans who don't speak English as their first language. English was not my first language but English is now my most dominant language. I have gone to college, I have an electrical engineering degree. But going through the coverages before the Affordable Care Act when I used to provide healthcare for my employees was always complicated and difficult. Now that I have my own coverage as a public servant, it is still very difficult to navigate through that. So let me make that very, very clear. The Affordable Care Act did not make healthcare complicated in America, it was already complicated. The good thing about it is, it is still complicated. However, 20 more million Americans now have healthcare that otherwise didn't have it. I grew up when I was born under healthcare when my father was a union worker. Later on he became a self-employed gardener. I was number 11, child number 11, and shortly thereafter he went off to be a private business owner and that is when healthcare coverage was unaffordable to them. Now people in my district like my father who are gardeners now have access to healthcare and these navigators are very, very important. So with that, Mr. Lee, can you describe how navigators help Californians access affordable coverage? Can you give us a good example that is working well in California? Mr. Lee. I absolutely can. I think that--I want to note that we use agents, licensed agents, 12,000. They cost a lot, 1.7 percent of premium goes to paying agents. That is a lot. It is over $130 million. We have a $6.7 million navigator program where we target communities that don't have as many agents serving them, in particular Spanish-speaking communities. We do a lot of studies and looking at the fact that agents are less apt to be serving Spanish-speaking people, so we specifically contract with entities that serve Spanish-speaking communities. Similarly, we have seen agents are less apt to serve African Americans. We target grants to navigators anchored in the Crenshaw district, anchored in parts of the community that are otherwise underserved. So it is very much a complement to a broad program and it is not just to be scored by enrollment, scored by doing outreach. The outreach function as you heard from Ms. Morse Gasteier is part of getting the word out that is particularly important in Federal marketplace States that as you noted have abandoned doing marketing. We in California spend $60 million on marketing and advertising. The Federal Government now spends 10 for 39 States. That money means people know to find navigators, know to find agents, so it is a complementary program. Mr. Cardenas. So basically navigators are helping people potentially save money, also end up getting coverage that is more applicable to their situation and their family, and then on top of that does it translate into Americans having better access to healthcare when a navigator helps an individual get to that point? Mr. Lee. So we study this closely, people that use navigators or agents make better decisions. They are more apt to choose a health plan that is right for them than those that do online only. Whether a web broker or whether other, getting help means they make a better choice. It also means more people enroll, they are healthier which lowers costs for everybody. So it really is one of those things, investing and helping people understand insurance and get insurance and use insurance means they get access to care when they need it, better, and lowers costs for everybody. Mr. Cardenas. Are navigators needed in rural areas? Mr. Lee. Absolutely. Mr. Cardenas. Are navigators, when available, are they utilized at high rates in rural areas? Mr. Lee. By high rates--we actually are going to be, we are re-upping our navigator program in California to fund more navigators. In some rural areas we don't have enough. So it is one of the issues we do that we base on analysis and target where the needs are. Mr. Cardenas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back my time. Ms. Eshoo [presiding]. I thank the gentleman from California, excellent questioning. And it really, I think, brings together a highly diverse State and one that may not be diverse, and how navigators work it is instructive. I now would like to recognize 5 minutes for questioning, the gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Bucshon. Mr. Bucshon. Thank you. Mr. Wieske, H.R. 1386 seeks to significantly increase the funding for the navigator program. In the 2016 and 2017 enrollment year in Indiana, the total amount of grant funds for navigators was $1,635,961. Three entities in the State were awarded grants. The total estimate for the number of individuals who would be enrolled in the ACA the estimate was 3,314, but in reality only 606 people were enrolled for a cost of nearly $2,700; to be exact, $2,699.61 per enrollee. If the grant recipients had met their goals, the per enrollee cost would have been $493.65. So do you know of any requirements that grant recipients attain their enrollment goals or penalties for nonattainment? Mr. Wieske. I am not aware of any. Mr. Bucshon. OK, neither am I. Do you think there should be a per-enrollee cap and that assuming we have navigators and that any unspent funds should be returned to the government? Mr. Wieske. So, you know, I think the funds, to be honest, are spent at the time that they are granted. The awards come very, very late. It is very difficult for the navigator entities to be able to plan ahead based on when they have received those grants. And so there have been issues and this goes back, all the way back to 2014. So, you know, if they are not spending the money, yes, they should. But I think, by and large, they are almost required to spend it the day they get it. And I think, you know, in Wisconsin we had less than 50 navigators registered, I think, year to year in any given year. Mr. Bucshon. Yes, I mean I have strong concerns that it seems like there is really an incentive to enroll fewer people because there is no penalty and the legislation doesn't seem to, this legislation doesn't seem to address the problem. I mean it seems to me that $2,700 per enrollee is quite a lot when you were expected to be less than $500 per enrollee. And it seems like we need to maybe have some guardrails in that program. Mr. Wieske. I think what we hope as an organization is that there are more opportunities for other entities to be able to enroll, that some of them are much more effective especially with distinct populations. Mr. Bucshon. OK. Mr. Wieske. And so we are hoping for more enhanced direct enrollment and more private exchanges, more other options, more flexibility for the individual plans to be able to sign people up and make it easier from a path perspective instead of making it harder, especially through the Federal exchange. Mr. Bucshon. Thank you. Mr. Lee, California has spent roughly a hundred million dollars every year for the last 3 years, I think it was 99; that I mean this year it is estimated at 111.5 million on advertising. Three years ago, how many people were in Obamacare, enrolled in Obamacare in California? Mr. Lee. In the individual market, about 2.4 million. Mr. Bucshon. OK. And how about after 3 years of a hundred million in marketing, what is the number? Mr. Lee. About the same because 40 percent of the people leave our market every year. So we have to market with a hundred million because people leave job-based coverage and you have got to bring them in. So this is like any product, if we stop marketing we would dwindle away. And by staying constant we have kept that risk pool which again is 20 percent healthier than the Federal marketplace which translates directly into 20 percent lower cost, so our 1 percent of premium goes to marketing. Mr. Bucshon. OK, so I get that. Mr. Lee. OK. Mr. Bucshon. So, but the national experience hasn't been the same with a large amount of marketing. It really didn't change the overall enrollment nationally, which is your experience in California. Three years, a hundred million dollars, and you have the same number of people. They may not be the same people, I get that. But that seems like a lot of money. That is your decision, I am fine with that. Do you think there is anyone in America that doesn't know that they have an option to get healthcare on the exchanges, on Obamacare? Mr. Lee. Sadly, yes. I know that even in California, where with our advertising the average Californian sees or hears us 59 times during open enrollment, even in California. Mr. Bucshon. Well, the question was, is do you think there is anyone in the United States that doesn't know that if they don't have healthcare they can't get it on the exchange under the ACA? Mr. Lee. Yep. There are absolutely many Americans in California and across the Nation that don't know that, that are---- Mr. Bucshon. Yes, I would be interested in you submitting that estimate to the committee, because I would argue that I don't know anyone that I come across that doesn't know that after all the years and the debate on the national level about Obamacare both pro and con that doesn't know that if they don't have health coverage--you know, it is one of those things where, you know, it is not like McDonald's. You drive by McDonald's and you say, hey, I am hungry, I am going to stop and get something, right? It seems like healthcare is more of a destination restaurant where you decide, hey, I am hungry and I am going to go to this restaurant specifically, you are not driving by. And I think to many, in many respects, that maybe you don't agree with that, that you know, people understand that they can get healthcare through the exchanges and it is a decision they are making not to or to do it. I just---- Mr. Lee. I would be happy to---- Mr. Bucshon. That is why I want to say, at the national level, I just don't see it is justified to spend millions and millions of dollars marketing something that everybody knows about. Thank you, I yield back. Ms. Eshoo. I thank the gentleman. Just as an aside, there are millions of people in the country that don't know that the ACA and Obamacare are one and the same. So, hard to believe, but it is still the case. I now would like to recognize the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Pallone, for 5 minutes of questioning. Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Madam Chair. In his testimony, Mr. Wieske recommends that we dismantle the Federal and the State- based marketplaces where of course millions of Americans receive health coverage. So I wanted to get a response to that from Mr. Lee and Ms. Gasteier. Mr. Lee, can you comment on Mr. Wieske's recommendations that we shut down the marketplaces and privatize it instead, and then I am going to ask Ms. Gasteier to answer the same question. Mr. Lee. Certainly. So Covered California partners closely with hundreds of licensed agents, many of which are web-based entities, web-based brokers. We believe there is a vital role for them in the private sector. But we are also deeply concerned that private entities have one purpose, to earn money based on commissions paid differentially by different insurance companies and different insurance products. We in the public sector have one purpose, to lower health costs for Americans or specifically to California. Web-based brokers are--I have known them well--are good, bad, and ugly. There are some great ones. There are some really lousy ones. And some of their tools are good, some are terrible. But they have a very different motivation. Our job in the public sector is to help millions of Americans get public dollars to lower healthcare costs and to make healthcare more affordable. Web-based brokers are seeking to get a best return, and I will note some agents might get 20 percent for one product, 2 percent for another. I would be quite nervous about what is going to happen to consumers. We put them first all the time. Mr. Pallone. And, Ms. Gasteier? Ms. Gasteier. Similar. We find that having a publicly run exchange is really critical for the integrity that people know they will find when they come and shop for products on our shelf. We offer a curated, competitive marketplace experience for people that people know when they come and get coverage from the Health Connector in Massachusetts or healthcare.gov they are getting safe, trustworthy coverage. And that they can make apples to apples comparisons, that is helpful for everybody in terms of affordability and understanding their options. I would also say part of the exchange's responsibility is to administer taxpayer dollars in the way of subsidies and so we think there is an important role for the public oversight component of being a public entity and doing that and ensuring that there is program integrity to these important functions. Mr. Pallone. I appreciate that because, I mean, obviously, as you said, the Federal and State-based marketplaces have to certify plans to ensure that only the products that offer comprehensive coverage are available for sale and the exchanges verify eligibility to ensure that low- and moderate-income Americans who qualify for financial assistance receive the ACA subsidies. But let me ask Mr. Lee kind of in the same vein, can you discuss the risk to consumers if the marketplaces are privatized? Mr. Lee. Well, first, we do look very closely at every health plan that wants to be in our marketplace. They have to be clear they have good networks, the right benefits and, sadly, healthcare is one of the areas that has actually failed consumers. Web-based brokers can sell not just qualified health plans, but in many States that offer skimpy benefits and they may get better commissions, those could be looking right next to products that are there and meaningful. Consumers don't know and may not know. And again the danger of the incentive for one agent or broker is very different than a group like ours which is publicly accountable. We bring together consumer advocates, doctors, and others to say what are the right benefit designs, how do we position plans so that consumers can choose right. I would be very concerned about many consumers being steered wrong if we just threw it to the market. Mr. Pallone. I mean, I agree, you know, many people, you know, from what I can see end up buying these junk plans and then have no idea of the lack of coverage. Ms. Gasteier, similarly, can you discuss the risk of shifting this responsibility to private insurance companies given billions of dollars, you know, in subsidies that are at stake? Ms. Gasteier. Sure. So I think again it comes back to exchanges play a really important role in being a source of trusted, comprehensive coverage where people know what they are getting is not going to be something that exposes them to costs if they get sick or that there is sort of tricks in the coverage itself in terms of what is sold to people. And so in having a place that is publicly accountable where we are engaging with carriers, consumer advocates, providers, and others to design products that are safe and trustworthy for people, there for them when they need it, is really a critical component of the public role for exchanges and we found that to be very effective in Massachusetts. And again similar to California, we have placed a real premium on standardizing benefits so that we can ensure that people when they shop and compare their options really understand what they are getting and what the differences may or may not be, but that everything there is safe and reliable. Mr. Pallone. And I agree. I mean I am very concerned that, you know, we have billions of dollars in Federal subsidies and, you know, they could be at risk from fraud, abuse, and waste. That is my concern. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Eshoo. I thank the chairman. I now would like to recognize the gentleman from Montana, Mr. Gianforte. Mr. Gianforte. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the panel being here today. Time and time again I hear from Montanans about the rising cost of healthcare in our State. For many in Montana, Obamacare has been unaffordable. Watching their premiums and deductibles continue to grow, while their benefits shrink has been a frustrating and in some cases a devastating experience for them. Thankfully, the Trump administration has proposed real solutions to halt the rise in healthcare costs. Improving access to short-term, limited duration insurance plans, eliminating the individual mandate penalty, and expanding association healthcare plans is giving choice back in control to Montanans and putting them back in charge of their healthcare needs. Unfortunately, the ENROLL Act is not innovative and is a prime example of policies that misunderstand the needs of rural communities. Our rural hospitals in Montana are hurting. And across this country since 2010, 98 rural hospitals have been closed and almost 700 are vulnerable to closure. Our communities depend on these vital institutions. When a hospital closes in a rural community, not only do we lose access to care, but the community is less sustainable. The region loses jobs and financial viability. We need to be working to make sure that people not only have coverage but also have access to care. A navigator won't be around to help when a farmer needs emergency medical services and their local hospital has closed. We need to ensure that our rural providers are stable and available in case of emergencies and I look forward to working together to continue encouraging innovation, affordability, and access to care for all. Mr. Wieske, I would like to direct a couple of questions to you. In your testimony you say that navigators are typically centered around large population centers with limited availability in rural communities. Can you speak as to why the navigator program is less effective in rural areas and frontier communities like Montana? Mr. Wieske. I mean it is a matter of economics. I mean the population is not there and the ability to drive the number of people you can see in a given time frame in a rural community is, you know, the distances as you know are significant and so the effectiveness is an issue. Mr. Gianforte. OK. In our business we are constantly looking for ways for continual improvement. When we found a program in our business that wasn't working we would stop focusing resources on that program and look to invest elsewhere. Mr. Wieske, do you believe that there should be a shift in our resources away from navigators to other areas that provide better outcomes for Americans? Mr. Wieske. I do think there are other ways that we can provide better access in rural communities in the same way that you are seeing other insurance lines, you are seeing medical care and other things delivered in different ways in those rural communities in order to give them access, so. Mr. Gianforte. So there might be better ways to use the money---- Mr. Wieske. Yes. Mr. Gianforte [continuing]. In rural areas in particular. OK. And then, Mr. Wieske, you also talked in your testimony about transparency in the navigator program. And I constantly hear from Montanans that they want--they are frustrated with the lack of transparency, generally, in our healthcare system. What changes could we make from your experience to make this program more transparent? Mr. Wieske. I think for, you know, I think one of the issues that we have seen is that this is something that States should be primarily responsible. I think California and Massachusetts certainly highlighted the way they deal with the navigator program. I think if States are responsible for the navigator program directly, I think that will make it a much more effective program because they understand how the State works, where the needs are, work with the Medicaid department, work with the insurance department in order to make that work better. Mr. Gianforte. So as we look at public policy, we should really have a design requirement around more local control at the State level. You would agree with that? Mr. Wieske. Yes. Mr. Gianforte. OK. Thank you so much. And with that I yield back--yes, I would. Mr. Burgess. You know, you have reminded me that one of the principal failures of the Affordable Care Act was when we allowed Speaker Boehner, Leader Reid, President Obama, to remove Members of Congress from being forced to go into the exchanges. That was a mistake. I did not accept the subsidies that all Members of Congress get for going in the DC exchange. I went through healthcare.gov, one of the most miserable experiences I have ever been through in my life, but it would be important for Members of Congress to experience what our constituents were feeling as they faced the very dire prospects of healthcare.gov not working on its rollout, and then of course the very expensive and unsubsidized premiums that we faced in the individual market. And I am just like anybody else, I bought on price. I bought a Bronze plan. I had a $6,800 deductible, never understood why I couldn't couple that with a Health Savings Account. It was difficult to do that. We could have made it easy and that would have been easier had we all been required to go through what we were putting our constituents through. I thank the gentleman for yielding and yield back to him. Mr. Gianforte. And, Madam Chair, I yield back. Ms. Eshoo. I thank the gentleman. I think, Dr. Burgess, you made a big mistake by not enrolling because it is terrific. It works beautifully for me. It has gone beyond my expectations because of its coverage. Mr. Burgess. But if I---- Ms. Eshoo. No. Now I would like to recognize the gentleman from Florida. I did see him, where is he? There, way down there. Mr. Soto, you have 5 minutes to question. Mr. Soto. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And, first, I am from Florida, home of the largest Federal exchange for the ACA in the Nation, with over 1.7 million Floridians. We had an increase this year. One of the big reasons that the ACA has been so successful in Florida is because we don't have a lot of folks with access to employer-based health insurance. So, for large States like us, this was made to help. My wife and I are on the insurance plans from the DC exchange. She recently had surgery which was pretty much covered, so it has been a good experience for the Soto family. I want to go through each of the five ways that President Trump has sabotaged the Affordable Care Act and get an idea from our witnesses whether it increased or decreased access and what it would relate to costs. So starting just brief answers with each of our witnesses going through first the five ways, one is, it eliminated cost sharing; two, ending high-risk corridors; three, cutting enrollment dollars and marketing dollars in half; four, eliminating the individual mandate; and five, eliminating mandatory Medicaid expansion. So let's start with the first of these five plagues on Obamacare, the eliminating of the cost-share subsidies. Mr. Lee, did this increase access or decrease access by eliminating the subsidies? Mr. Lee. I think on the margins it decreased access. But the fact of silver loading meant some consumers with subsidy actually had more money to work with so it is actually a trade- off. It definitely cost the Federal Government more money. It caused confusion that I think in many markets led health plans to pull out of their markets, so it is a market-by-market issue. Mr. Soto. So, but you would say overall it decreased access? Mr. Lee. Overall, decreased. Mr. Soto. Ms. Gasteier, did it increase or decrease access or costs? Ms. Gasteier. It reduced access for the unsubsidized middle-class population. Mr. Soto. And, Mr. Wieske, did it increase or decrease? Mr. Wieske. It increased costs and created some instabilities. Mr. Soto. What about on ending the high-risk corridors, Mr. Lee? How did that affect access and costs? Mr. Lee. That I think also ended up having--well, I am actually, I am not sure. Mr. Soto. OK. You are not sure. Mr. Lee. So I will pass. Mr. Soto. What about Ms. Gasteier? How did it affect access or costs? Ms. Gasteier. I would say all of the reductions or disruption to any of the three Rs--risk corridors, reinsurance, and risk adjustment--have been, have reduced access and stability just in general to the extent that each of those programs have either been ended or they have hit turbulence in various ways. Mr. Soto. And, Mr. Wieske? Mr. Wieske. I think with the three Rs, I think the decision early on to federalize them and not to go State by State created significant issues in the market outside of it, which predates most of the issues surrounding it. Mr. Soto. What about cutting marketing dollars and enrollment time, Mr. Lee? How did that affect access and costs? Mr. Lee. Dramatically reduced access, dramatically has increased premiums across much of the Nation except for those States that have State-based marketplaces that continue to do marketing. Mr. Soto. And, Ms. Gasteier, how did that affect costs and access? Ms. Gasteier. I would presume elsewhere it has reduced access. Like California, Massachusetts has been able to stay level with respect to its investment in outreach and marketing so has stayed the same. Mr. Soto. Mr. Wieske? Mr. Wieske. We just didn't see that effect, that negative effect. Mr. Soto. OK. What about eliminating the individual mandate? Mr. Lee, how did that affect access and cost? Mr. Lee. It has raised premiums across both California and the Nation and decreased enrollment. Many fewer, hundreds of thousands of fewer Californians have insurance because of that. Mr. Soto. Ms. Gasteier? Ms. Gasteier. We have stayed insulated from those impacts in Massachusetts because we have our own individual mandate, but we imagine if we didn't have a tool like that either State- or federally based it would reduce access. Mr. Soto. Mr. Wieske? Mr. Wieske. Specifically in Wisconsin, our rates were so high that we are not convinced that it had a significant impact on enrollment. Mr. Soto. OK. And, finally, not requiring Medicaid expansion, I realize the courts helped in that, how did that affect access and costs? Mr. Lee. Well, I think that in States like Florida, the reason you have a big exchange is you have many, many Floridians who do not benefit from the Medicaid program, and I think Californians benefit. I think there are millions of Americans not benefiting from that coverage expansion. Mr. Soto. Ms. Gasteier? Ms. Gasteier. Similar, I think the Affordable Care Act put puzzle pieces in place with the assumption that Medicaid expansion would catch a particular population of people and ensure that they had guaranteed coverage, so obviously Massachusetts has taken advantage of that to great effect. And so I would expect that that has dramatically reduced coverage elsewhere where that has not been mandatory. Mr. Soto. Mr. Wieske? Mr. Wieske. And we haven't seen a negative impact from that in where I was in Wisconsin. We saw a positive impact. Mr. Soto. Thank you. Mr. Wieske. And we had a unique approach. Mr. Soto. Thank you. My time has expired. Ms. Eshoo. I thank the gentleman for his excellent questions. Now I have the pleasure of recognizing Mr. Bilirakis from Florida to question for 5 minutes. And I would like to note that for those that may not know, his father preceded him in Congress and was the chairman of this subcommittee, a wonderful chairman and still a wonderful friend. So you have 5 minutes to question, Mr. Bilirakis. Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you so very much. It is an honor to serve on this committee and to serve under you as the chairwoman, and also the ranking member. I won't forget that. So anyway, thank you very much and thank you for your testimony. I appreciate it very much. Mr. Wieske, in your testimony you talked about how in Wisconsin the insurance markets were damaged by the exchanges. The number of insurance companies withdrew from the market and premiums kept moving up. That problem isn't isolated just to Wisconsin. In Florida we have less participation in the exchange today than 2014 and the majority of counties only have one insurance carrier. As a matter of fact, the county that I represent, I represent three counties, one of the counties only has one insurance and it is a carrier and it is--I think the population is close to 500,000. Last year, Wisconsin received a 1332 State innovation waiver to reestablish a reinsurance program and other States have applied or received a waiver for reinsurance in other programs. Are 1332 waivers still available for States to use? This is for again Mr. Wieske. Mr. Wieske. They are, yes. Mr. Bilirakis. They are. OK, thank you. Does it make sense to move a standalone reinsurance bill by itself with no reforms in it, and wouldn't it be better to move legislation to reform the 1332 State innovation waiver to give greater flexibility to States to reform and repair their insurance markets? What do you think of that? Mr. Wieske. Yes, I think given the issues surrounding the risk pool that we have all sort of talked about especially in States like Wisconsin, Iowa, and other States, I think it is important not to just look at reinsurance. Reinsurance shifts who pays, as I stated, but we need to find some new ways to sort of improve that risk pool. So I think a broader 1332 will have some value for States. Mr. Bilirakis. OK. This question is regarding State exchanges again. Mr. Wieske, one of the bills under consideration today would spend $200 million for more State-based exchanges. Wouldn't it make more sense to have private entities running the exchanges rather than government entities? What do you think of that? Mr. Wieske. I think Wisconsin and a lot of other States like it could not afford with the 200 million to run its own exchange. So in order to have a first-class experience, I think looking at private entities to be able to offer additional options makes a lot of sense. Mr. Bilirakis. OK. Wouldn't it make more sense again as you said to have the private entity running the exchanges rather than the government entities? Can we have businesses assume the financial risk of running an exchange rather than the Federal Government bankrolling the States? What are the barriers to having private exchanges provide this particular service? Mr. Wieske. I think one of the things to understand is that there is still a State regulatory process in place that reviews the plans, reviews the insurers, licenses the agent, licensing the insurers, checks their financial solvency, does everything soup to nuts, currently, in a number of States. And they can serve, continue to serve that role and it changes, functionally, a Web site and an outreach entity to be able to get consumers to sign up for coverage. They existed before the ACA. They exist now, after the ACA. And I think what our thought is, is that having a first-in- class experience and having an entity, entities offering with State oversight the in-exchange role makes a lot of sense financially. There is a lot less risk. Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you very much. Unless the ranking member would like the balance of my time, I yield back. Mr. Burgess. Well, thank you. In fact, I would like to take just a minute. Mr. Bilirakis. I figured you would. Mr. Burgess. It is not really the subject of what this subcommittee is considering today, but, Madam Chair, I just feel like this committee has had such a good relationship with Dr. Scott Gottlieb over the last 2 years and certainly I don't know what was involved in his decision to make his announcement yesterday, but I will just say he will be missed certainly by me personally and I believe by the subcommittee generally. And we certainly want to wish him well in whatever his future endeavors. I do not know that we have ever had a brighter witness here at the witness table than Dr. Gottlieb and he was never shy about telling us that also, but he will be missed. And I really appreciated the enthusiasm with which he took the job of administrator of the Food and Drug Administration and, really, under his leadership some very positive changes occurred at that agency. So that is all I wanted to say. I will yield back to the gentleman from Florida. Mr. Bilirakis. And I will yield back, Madam Chair. Thank you. Ms. Eshoo. Just to thank you, Mr. Bilirakis. I would like to add my voice to that of the ranking member. I think that our country has been fortunate to have had Dr. Gottlieb as the commissioner of the FDA. It is an agency that the American people, I believe, trust. They always want it to uphold the highest standards because it stands between them and God knows what if the wrong decisions are made. So I think that we have been more than fortunate to have him as FDA commissioner. I think that he has worked very well with the committee, both sides of the aisle. In his statement he said he was getting tired of commuting from Connecticut. And I thought I wished I had known that ahead of time, because I would have called him and encouraged to keep commuting, because I make a much longer commute across the country every week to California, not to Connecticut. So I know that on behalf of this subcommittee that we wish him well, and we thank him. We thank him for, I think, exemplary public service. So with that I will ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the following, and it is kind of a long list: a statement from the American Lung Association in support of H.R.1425; a statement from the American Lung Association in support of H.R. 1386; a letter from the American Medical Association in support of H.R. 1386, 1385, and 1425; a statement for the record from the American Cancer Society Cancer Action in support of H.R. 1386, 1385, and 1425; a letter from the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association in support of 1386, 1385, and 1425; written from the Asian and Pacific Islander American Health Forum in support of H.R. 1386, 1385, and 1425; a letter in support of H.R. 1386 from the Young Invincibles; a report on ``Exploring the Impact of State and Federal Actions on Enrollment in the Individual Market: A Comparison of the Federal Marketplace and California, Massachusetts, and Washington''; a statement from the American Health Insurance Plans; and a letter from the Healthcare Leadership Council. So we ask that that--I am asking unanimous consent that we enter all of what I just read into the record, including what the ranking member had raised earlier. Do you have something that you would like to add? Mr. Burgess. Yes, if I could be recognized for additional unanimous consent. Ms. Eshoo. Certainly. Mr. Burgess. I would like to ask unanimous consent to insert into the record the text of the bill that I introduced, H.R. 1510, and I would like to introduce into the record a letter from Blue Cross Blue Shield Association in support of that Bill 1510. Ms. Eshoo. So ordered. [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Ms. Eshoo. I want to thank again--I started out by thanking the witnesses, I want to close by thanking you. You know, it is not very often said around here that we are so dependent upon experts in our country. It never ceases to amaze me the knowledge that resides in experts on so many issues. And so when you come forward and answer our questions that all becomes part of the record and that stays there for a long time, but it also remains with us because we learn from you. No one can say to any of you, you don't know what you are talking about. You have lived it. You have done it. You have brought your expertise here, and we are, on behalf of all of our constituents and the American people, really very grateful to you for the time and the expertise that you have shared with us. So with that the subcommittee is adjourned. Thank you, everyone. Mr. Burgess. And we have 5 days. Ms. Eshoo. Oh, we have 5 days for Members--I said that at the beginning of the hearing. Mr. Burgess. Oh, OK. Ms. Eshoo. But I will say it again--time for Members to submit their comments for the record. [Whereupon, at 12:32 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] [Material submitted for inclusion in the record follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]