[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
MEMBERS' DAY HEARING:
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE,
SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MAY 17, 2019
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Serial No. 116-21
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov
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U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
36-339PDF WASHINGTON : 2019
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COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas, Chairwoman
ZOE LOFGREN, California FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma,
DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois Ranking Member
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon MO BROOKS, Alabama
AMI BERA, California, BILL POSEY, Florida
Vice Chair RANDY WEBER, Texas
CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania BRIAN BABIN, Texas
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas ANDY BIGGS, Arizona
HALEY STEVENS, Michigan ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
KENDRA HORN, Oklahoma RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey MICHAEL CLOUD, Texas
BRAD SHERMAN, California TROY BALDERSON, Ohio
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee PETE OLSON, Texas
JERRY McNERNEY, California ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida
PAUL TONKO, New York JIM BAIRD, Indiana
BILL FOSTER, Illinois JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER, Washington
DON BEYER, Virginia JENNIFFER GONZALEZ-COLON, Puerto
CHARLIE CRIST, Florida Rico
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois VACANCY
KATIE HILL, California
BEN McADAMS, Utah
JENNIFER WEXTON, Virginia
C O N T E N T S
May 17, 2019
Page
Opening Statements
Written statement by Representative Daniel Lipinski, Committee on
Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.. 3
Written statement by Representative Randy Weber, Committee on
Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.. 4
Written statement by Representative Bill Foster, Committee on
Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.. 10
Statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Chairwoman,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of
Representatives................................................ 14
Written statement............................................ 14
Statement by Representative Frank Lucas, Ranking Member,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of
Representatives................................................ 14
Witnesses:
Statement by Representative Ralph Norman, Committee on Science,
Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives........... 14
Written statement............................................ 17
Statement by Representative Brian Babin, Committee on Science,
Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives........... 18
Written statement............................................ 20
Statement by Representative Brad Sherman, Committee on Science,
Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives........... 21
Written statement............................................ 23
Statement by Representative Scott Tipton, Committee on Science,
Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives........... 25
Written statement............................................ 27
Questions........................................................ 29
MEMBERS' DAY HEARING:
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE,
SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
----------
FRIDAY, MAY 17, 2019
House of Representatives,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
Washington, D.C.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:35 a.m., in
room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Eddie
Bernice Johnson [Chairwoman of the Committee] presiding.
Chairwoman Johnson. The hearing will come to order. Without
objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at any
time. Good morning to all. I'd like to welcome everyone to the
Members' Day Hearing for the Committee on Science, Space, and
Technology for the 116th Congress. Today's Members' Day Hearing
gives Members, including not on the Committee, the opportunity
to come before us and discuss proposed legislation, or simply
discuss interests and priorities under the Committee's
jurisdiction. We have four Members before us today, if the next
two will come. We also had Members submit testimony for the
record.
Mr. Lipinski provided testimony on his bill, H.R. 2202, the
Growing Artificial Intelligence through Research Act. Mr.
Weber's written statement discusses his forthcoming bill, the
Nuclear Energy Research Infrastructure Act. And Dr. Foster's
testimony covers an assortment of topics within our legislative
jurisdiction, including the importance of national
laboratories, perils of human genetic engineering, the need for
investment in artificial intelligence, and priorities for NASA
(National Aeronautics and Space Administration) funding. That
testimony will be entered into the record and has previously
been distributed to all Committee Members.
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Chairwoman Johnson. I'd like to welcome our colleagues
testifying before us today, and we look forward to hearing your
thoughts on these very important policy areas. It is my desire
to have this Committee work in a bipartisan manner because we
must all work together to tackle the many challenges in our
jurisdiction, including science education, energy research,
national competitiveness, and climate change.
[The prepared statement of Chairwoman Johnson follows:]
Good morning. I would like to welcome everyone to the
Members' Day Hearing for the Committee on Science, Space, and
Technology for the 116th Congress. Today's Members' Day Hearing
gives Members, including those NOT on the Committee, the
opportunity to come before us and discuss proposed legislation,
or simply discuss interests and priorities under the
Committee's jurisdiction.
We have four Members before us today to testify on a
variety of policy areas and bills. We also had Members submit
testimony for the record. Mr. Lipinski provided testimony on
his bill H.R. 2202--the Growing Artificial Intelligence through
Research Act. Mr. Weber's written statement discusses his
forthcoming bill--the Nuclear Energy Research Infrastructure
Act. Dr. Foster's testimony covers an assortment of topics
within our legislative jurisdiction, including the importance
of national laboratories, perils of human genetic engineering,
the need for investment in artificial intelligence, and
priorities for NASA funding. Their testimony will be entered
into the record and has previously been distributed to all
Committee Members.
I would like to welcome our colleagues testifying before us
today. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on these very
important policy areas. It is my desire to have this Committee
work in a bipartisan manner, because we must all work together
to tackle the many challenges in our jurisdiction including
science education, energy research, national competitiveness,
and climate change.
Chairwoman Johnson. I will now ask Mr. Lucas if he'll have
an opening statement.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Chairwoman Johnson, for holding this
Members' Hearing, and thank you to my colleagues who are
joining us today to testify about their priorities for the
Committee this year. The Science Committee has jurisdiction
over some of the most interesting aspects of our government,
including research, energy, technology development, space
flight. I welcome my colleagues' thoughts on these issues, and
I look forward to your testimony, and I would simply note, as I
yield back to the Chairlady, that that spirit of
bipartisanship, and the effort with which we've all worked
together, has gone amazingly smooth, and I very much appreciate
her efforts. Yield back, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. Now, if there are
Members who wish to submit additional opening statements, your
statements will be added to the record at this point.
Now to our testifying colleagues: We will have one panel,
and each of you will have 5 minutes for testimony. When you
have all completed your testimony, we will then open the floor
to questions from all attending Members of the Committee. We
will begin with Mr. Norman, and you may begin your testimony.
STATEMENT OF HON. RALPH NORMAN,
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
FROM THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA
Mr. Norman. Thank you so much, Chairman Johnson, and
Ranking Member Lucas. Thank you all for having this. It's a
little bit weird sitting on this side of the aisle, but thank
you for having this. I have a special heart for veterans. I'm
like many of you, you have a lot of veterans serving in the
individual districts, so it's my honor to be able to present
what I think is a great bill that can be bipartisan, and one
that benefits all.
My bill is H.R. 617, the Department of Energy Veterans'
Health Initiative Act. This legislation authorizes a
partnership between the Department of Energy (DOE) and the VA
(Veterans Administration) in order to facilitate research on
high-priority healthcare needs of the VA, further research on
artificial intelligence, and to advance our Nation's Big Data
science. And I might add that this was requested by both the VA
and the Department of Energy. The VA is good on a lot of
things, but what the VA is lacking is the ability to have
information stored. They don't have the computers to do it, and
that's why the DOE has that, and both of them requested it.
I introduced this bill last Congress, and was thrilled to
see it pass the House unanimously. I was proud to reintroduce
the bill again this Congress, and was glad to see that it
retained bipartisan support. I'm grateful to the many Members
of this Committee who co-sponsored this legislation, including
the continued support from Ranking Member Lucas, and my friend
across the aisle, Mr. Lipinski.
Even more encouraging for our Nation's veterans is that
Senator Ernst introduced a bipartisan Senate companion to my
bill. Under the VA Voluntary Data Collection Program, the
Million Veterans Program, the VA has collected detailed health
information and geonomic data volunteered by over 600,000
veterans. They volunteered this information. However, the
interagency partnership authorized by my bill is necessary to
analyze this data, and ultimately provide better care for our
Nation's veterans. The DOE has the capability to securely store
and analyze this data based on its robust research in
computational sciences and data analytics. In addition, the DOE
national labs have 6 of the world's top 10 fastest
supercomputers, which I did not realize until I started doing
this, which includes having the world's fastest supercomputer.
If we're able to sign this legislation into law, then
supercomputers would be used to analyze VA health data and look
for patterns that will help improve the medical treatments for
our heart disease, traumatic brain injury, and cancer. While
this alone should warrant consideration of the bill, because we
should be taking any steps possible to improve the medical care
of our men and women who answered the call to serve, and were
willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, this partnership would
also benefit the DOE. Analyzing the complex health data will
allow our scientists to remain leaders in advanced computing,
and allow for the development of computing tools necessary to
address Big Data in the future. This legislation also includes
a critical pilot program to help the DOE develop infrastructure
to support other interagency partnerships, allowing the
Department to help other Federal agencies to tackle similar
problems.
Chairwoman Johnson, I urge you to rise to the occasion and
make the needs of our veterans, and the potential to improve
their medical care, a top priority, which I know is the case.
With the passage of this bill, we will be able to show the
country that, regardless of our differences, there is still
common ground, and providing better care for our veterans is a
place we can come together and agree, because the men and women
of our armed forces keep us all safe, regardless of our
political party. By supporting this bipartisan legislation, we
are showing our veterans and the Nation that we can work
together for the greater good. I encourage my colleagues to
support this bill. It's a bill that promises to improve our
veterans' ability to access better healthcare services, and
challenge our scientists so that they can remain the world's
leader in advanced computing. Thank you so much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Norman follows:]
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Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. We'll move now to
Dr. Babin.
STATEMENT OF HON. BRIAN BABIN,
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS
Mr. Babin. Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate
you, and Ranking Member Lucas. Good to be with you this
morning. And I want to thank the rest of my SST colleagues as
well for allowing me the opportunity to address all of you this
morning. I'm very proud to serve as both the Ranking Member on
the Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee, and also on the
Environmental Subcommittee. And with the limited time that I
have, I would like to lay out a few of my priorities, and
encourage the Committee to work together to accomplish as many
of these as possible in this Congress.
Our Nation's space arena, whether it be in commercial,
civil, or defense, is growing exponentially. We, this
Committee, are faced with challenges that set the stage for us
to lead the discussion on how to navigate this growth and to
maintain, or better yet, to grow, America's role as the world's
pre-eminent spacefaring nation. To do that, I believe that we
need to focus on three different areas.
First, we must re-evaluate the way that we regulate
commercial space activities. As a Committee, we should be
encouraging the creation of conditions for economic growth and
opportunity right here, not making it so hard to participate
that we push high tech, space-focused companies abroad. In the
115th Congress, the House passed the American Space Commerce
Free Enterprise Act (ASCFEA). That would've accomplished this
very goal, while streamlining the bureaucracy into a one-stop
shop at the Department of Commerce, all while maintaining our
compliance with the Outer Space Treaty. This Committee
unanimously approved the ASCFEA last Congress, before we sent
it to the floor, where it passed without opposition. Let's do
it again.
Second, as access to space continues to increase, so does
the need for more significant steps to be taken in terms of
space safety, specifically, issues relating to space
situational awareness and space traffic management, but also
with regard to how we investigate accidents.
And third, thanks in large part to the leadership of this
Committee in years past, the United States is now closer than
ever to launching American astronauts on American rockets from
American soil. And couple that with this Administration's
ambitious plans to return to the moon by 2024, the Science,
Space, and Technology Committee is going to have its hands full
in ensuring that we accomplish the goal of a sustainable
presence on the moon as we push outward to Mars, and eventually
beyond. All of this, while also being responsible stewards of
the taxpayers' dollar.
And I represent Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston,
which is the lead NASA center for human space exploration. The
International Space Station, which is managed out of JSC, is a
test bed for technologies and capabilities that will make the
goals of pushing outward possible. Last Congress I introduced
the Leading Human Space Flight Act, which recognizes the
importance of a permanent and continuous U.S. human presence in
low-Earth orbit, and directs NASA to work with the private
sector in developing commercial capabilities to meet our future
needs there. My bill also authorizes NASA to operate the ISS
(International Space Station) until 2030, or until a
sustainable lower cost alternative is demonstrated. The Leading
Human Space Flight Act maintains our national capabilities to
manage space operation and space integration, spacesuit
development, and habitat integration as we return to the moon,
and push outwards to Mars.
I ask that the Committee work with me as I work to advance
this legislation again in this Congress. I'm very proud to have
served as the Chairman of the Space Subcommittee last Congress,
and I'm very honored to continue as the Ranking Member now.
NASA has accomplished unbelievable things in the last 60 years,
and I wholeheartedly believe that the next 60 will be even more
impressive for the American space enterprise as a whole, to
include NASA, and I look forward to working with each one of
you on this Committee to ensure that we here at SST play an
indispensable role in that. I will be reintroducing these bills
soon, and seeking co-sponsors.
I know I'm short on time, but I'd be remiss if I didn't
touch on my role as the Subcommittee on Environment. Regardless
of party, environmental policy is of universal importance, and
I welcome these often polarizing conversations, but I'm very
certain that when we decide to work together, we will
accomplish significant achievements, like leading the world in
weather prediction, which should be a great priority. We have
the privilege of having some incredibly unique topics under our
jurisdiction, from cybersecurity, to protecting our Nation's
proprietary data, to artificial intelligence and hypersonics,
to weather prediction, and the human and scientific exploration
of our galaxy. We work on turning the science fiction of today
into the technology of tomorrow.
I look forward to working together with both sides of the
dais to ensure that we at SST maintain jurisdiction on issues
like space launch, accident investigation, remote sensing, or
anything else that others have publicly or privately made a
claim to. Let us always be inspired by the profound words on
the wall back behind where you're sitting. And, quoting from
Proverbs 29:18, ``Where there is no vision, the people
perish''. Once more, I'm proud to serve with each of you, and
look forward to working together with all of you in the 116th
Congress. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Babin follows:]
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Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. We'll go to Mr.
Sherman.
STATEMENT OF HON. BRAD SHERMAN,
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
Mr. Sherman. Thank you. It's been a pleasure to rejoin the
Committee after a decade of absence. I believe that science
will transform our lives even more this century than it did
last century. If someone's describing what the future will be
30 years from now, and they paint a picture that you think
looks like a science fiction movie, they might be right, they
might be wrong. But if somebody paints a picture that doesn't
look like a science fiction movie, you know they're wrong.
We're going to be living in a science fiction movie. We just
don't know which one yet.
There is an issue, something in the world more explosive
than nuclear fusion, and that is intelligence. After all, it is
intelligence that allows us to develop nuclear fusion. We now
have two groups of scientists working to develop new levels of
intelligence. They are the computer engineers on the one hand,
and the bioengineers on the other. The last time a new higher
level of intelligence appeared on this planet is when our
ancestors said hello to the Neanderthal. We then said goodbye
to the Neanderthal. As we develop intelligent computers, we
will find them useful tools. As we find them useful tools, we
will use those tools to develop faster and smarter computers.
We had a hearing in this room, in 2003 in which experts
said that computers would reach human intelligence within 25
years. I think they might have been a little premature. Might
be 30, might be 35 years from 2003, which means next decade, or
the decade after. There are those who say that even if a
computer is intelligent and malevolent, it's in a box, and
can't affect the world. But I believe there are those of our
species who would sell hands to the Devil in return for a good
stock tip. What I do draw solace from is that computers may be
intelligent, but that does not mean they'll be self-aware or
ambitious. By ambitious I mean a desire to protect themselves,
expand and affect the world so that they can do that. My
computer doesn't seem to care whether I turn it off or
disassemble it. A mouse does.
That leads us to the next form of enhanced intelligence,
and that is what the bioengineers are doing. They can start
with human DNA, and we're alarmed by what happened in China,
where the CRISPR technology was used to create a ``designer
baby,'' and they could also start with the DNA of some other
mammal. DNA is inherently ambitious. Those microbes that didn't
seek to replicate and survive, didn't. So you could view this
as a contest between the bioengineers and the computer
engineers to see who will be first in developing super-
intelligence. Will our successor species be carbon-based or
silicon-based?
What should this Committee do? Most immediate is the area
of artificial intelligence. We fund it, we develop it, we
authorize it, the U.S. Government is critical to it. And as we
develop smarter and smarter computers, we should direct 1 or 2
percent of the effort to preventing self-awareness, ambition,
self-initiative, and autonomy. This should be done both by
requiring that those who do research in AI have separate
studies focused on that, and build it in. Otherwise, they'll
pay lip service to this issue, but they'll focus on the
immediate issue--thing they're trying to do. When it comes to
genetic engineering, we should prohibit any effort to increase
the intelligence of any life form. I don't care if they create
a fatter cow, or a leaner cow. I do not want to eat a smarter
cow, let alone what can be done to create levels of
intelligence either above that of a human being or just below.
Finally, we had hearings in Foreign Affairs that I chaired
last decade on using the Non-Proliferation Act as a plan to
deal with this internationally, but I think that the U.S. has
to develop its own standards before we'll be effective in
dealing with the world. I chair the Asia Subcommittee now, and
I talked facetiously with a Chinese Foreign Ministry official.
I told him that the computers that displace humankind will be
created in California, not Shanghai, therefore, America wins.
No, I don't reach that conclusion. It was a facetious one. So I
look forward to working on this Committee to make sure that, as
we move forward with these two important areas of scientific
development, artificial intelligence and genetic engineering,
that we have the appropriate controls, and that we do not
create a replacement species without even thinking about it.
And I yield back.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Sherman follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. Mr. Upton? Tipton,
I'm sorry.
Mr. Tipton. That's OK, yes. I'm in politics. You can't
believe what I get called.
STATEMENT OF HON. SCOTT TIPTON,
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
FROM THE STATE OF COLORADO
Mr. Tipton. Thank you, Chairwoman Johnson, and Ranking
Member Lucas. I appreciate you very much opening up the process
for legislation of those that are not on the Committee to be
able to address issues that will certainly impact all of us
here at home.
Since the 1960s the U.S. has dominated space exploration,
and has excelled in aeronautical innovation. My State of
Colorado has played a critical role in the success of this,
serving as the home to one of the largest aerospace industries
in the country. In my office we consistently meet with
stakeholders who have engaged us in the newer issue of space
resource utilization. In the past decade, there's been a lot of
interest in in situ research utilization, known as ISRU, which
is the practice of using materials found on the lunar surface,
and on asteroids, to replace materials that have been brought
from Earth to make space travel more affordable and flexible.
Federal agencies, academia, and the private sector have agreed
across the board that more space exploration will be supported
by extraction of materials in space, which can decrease the
cost of human space flight to the moon and to Mars.
In 2019 alone, this Committee has held hearings on topics
related to NASA's deep space exploration programs, America's
role in space, and keeping our sights on a manned mission to
Mars. All of this are reliant on ISRU, which has also been
discussed in the Committee. Dr. Peggy Whitson, a former NASA
astronaut, even testified during a Committee hearing about how
the future of America's presence in space will in part be
related to America's ability to be able to conduct ISRU on
lunar surface for resources like water and minerals. American
scientists and engineers have diligently worked to be able to
advance research into the field, but there is no central hub to
support such efforts. That is why I've come to testify here
today, and advocate for consideration of legislation that I
have introduced within the jurisdiction of this Committee
related to this issue.
This past February I introduced H.R. 1029, the Space
Resources Institute Act. If signed into law, H.R. 1029 would
direct the administrator of NASA to submit a report to Congress
on the merits of, and options for, establishing an institute
relating to space resources, and advance the objectives of NASA
in maintaining U.S. pre-eminence in space. These objectives
include identifying and distributing space resources through
the encouragement of developing foundational science and
technology, reducing the technological risks associated with
identifying and distributing space resources, and developing
options for using space resources to support current and future
space programs, and enable ones that wouldn't otherwise be
possible.
I was proud to introduce this bill with my colleague from
Colorado, Congressman Ed Perlmutter, and, since its
introduction, it has gained additional bipartisan support. It's
my goal that, with the passage of H.R. 1029, that we can build
upon the accomplishments of the U.S. Commercial Space Launch
Competitiveness Act, (CSLCA) which was introduced by Minority
Leader Kevin McCarthy in 2015, and was signed into law by
President Obama. The CSLCA made it legal to facilitate, and to
participate, in commercial exploration, and recovery of, and
for space resources. As academia, the private sector, and
Federal agencies engage in ISRU research, all parties will
benefit from a central institution where research can be
shared, expanded upon, and put into action.
Given the support on both sides of the aisle for future
manned missions to the moon and Mars, I'm hopeful and confident
that H.R. 1029 will advance U.S. interests in space. At a time
when Russia, China, and other foreign actors are attempting to
grow and invest in their space programs to surpass us, we must
act swiftly to maintain our position in the global space arena.
America has always excelled in space, and we must continue to
do so through legislative measures like H.R. 1029. I'd
respectfully request that H.R. 1029 be considered in a Full
Committee hearing and markup as soon as possible, and I thank
you again for the opportunity to be able to address you here
today, and for the openness of this process through your
Committee.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Tipton follows:]
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Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. We will now begin
our question section, and we will start again at the beginning,
so, Mr. Norman, you will be open for questions, and anyone can
ask them, and we'll move down the line.
The question I'd like to ask you is, in your bill H.R. 617,
is it only limited to the areas, the medical conditions, which
you identified?
Mr. Norman. Yes, ma'am. It's based on the medical
information that the veterans have donated that the DOE can use
to further the treatment, try to predict who's going to get
what. But, yes, it's the medical data that the veterans have
given to the DOE.
Chairwoman Johnson. The reason I'm asking that is because
trying to get the records organized and compatible between the
time the veteran leaves military service to the VA has been
very difficult, and mental health is one of the critical areas
that is not being addressed right now with the VA, and timely.
And that's why I asked you that question. I think the bill has
merit. Are these areas in which the Department of Energy has
great information now, which they just want to share
compatibility?
Mr. Norman. Yes, and I consider the mental illness PTSD
(post-traumatic stress disorder) is a part of that, and I know
we visited Dorn, which is a hospital in my area, to pay the
veterans who are coming back from the Vietnam War or Iraq,
that's a medical condition. So whatever they can get the data
on, that would be included.
Chairwoman Johnson. OK. I have the second largest VA
hospital in the Nation in my district, and we see the problems
on a day-to-day basis. That's my largest district office case
workload, is complaints.
Mr. Norman. Mine too, Chairman Johnson. I tell you, the
suicide rate is a direct result of just what you're talking
about----
Chairwoman Johnson. Um-hum.
Mr. Norman [continuing]. And that's why it's so important.
If you don't have the backup data, how do you--and if you can't
find it, like you say, then how do you act on it? And I know in
my district, one of the big things is the suicide rate, which
stems from medical illness, and mental illness is triggered by
the PTSD that a lot of them suffer.
Chairwoman Johnson. Yes, that's very true. Our community
has seen it very clearly. We had four policemen killed a little
over a year ago, 2 years ago now, that was a mentally ill
veteran that had not been able to get seen for a year at the
VA. And so this continues. It has had really no improvement,
taking 6 and 8 months for patients to get a psychiatric
appointment. And then all of those external services, like home
health care, are going out of business because they can't get
paid from the VA. And so I just thought, if we're going to link
with another agency, if we could have information that would
help to close some of these gaps because of the rapidity of
which they could be addressed with that computer service.
Mr. Norman. I agree, and in my office this week, National
Police Week, we had six police officers, three of them had
gotten shot, and guess who did the shooting? A veteran from the
Vietnam War who was on the SWAT team. 65 years old. And one of
the issues we face is a lot of them are quiet. You know, mental
illness is something, how do you address it? And it's a two-
edged sword. That's why the value of this, if we can have data,
however small, it will pay dividends on down the road. Maybe
this veteran could've gotten help to stop him from opening fire
on the officers, killing one, and wounding the other. So it's
something that's well overdue, and I think will save lives in
the long run.
Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you. Any other questions? Yes,
Mr. Baird.
Mr. Baird. Thank you, Madam Chair, and Congressman Norman,
I would make one comment. I can't resist making a comment about
the Vietnam veterans and the PTSD. I think you have to
recognize also that, when we came home from that war, we did
not receive the welcoming that they had for prior wars and so
on, and I think that had an impact on those veterans. But in
any case, I really appreciate you making this effort with this
bill to help veterans. I do think information of this kind can
be useful, particularly in helping them identify what
appointments, where to go, and keeping track, doing the follow
up on that. Because, as the Chairlady mentioned, it gets a
little frustrating for veterans in order to try to make
appointments, get appointments canceled, even getting through
to the VA system. And so I think having this kind of data, as
long as we can protect the individual privacy, I think having
the data to make quicker decisions, and more relevant
decisions, would be good, so I commend you for that.
I guess I'm supposed to ask a question, aren't I?
Chairwoman Johnson. You've got 5 minutes to do whatever you
want to do.
Mr. Baird. OK. Thank you. I guess my question is, can this
program with the DOE, because they have such capable computers,
also help making appointments, and enhancing the computer
system that the VA operates with today? Do you think that's----
Mr. Norman. Thank you, Congressman Baird. The answer is,
you know, the answer's yes, short answer, but to explain it
further, you know, you've got to have measurables to go by.
What greater service can we provide than people such as
yourself, when you call in with a particular illness, be able
to say, we've included your data, along with others, here is
what some treatment can be based on the information. If you
don't have the information, it's like flying with a blindfold
on. You don't know where you're going, or driving with a
blindfold on. So, yes, I think it'll help all the way around,
and it'll help that hospital.
When you have data that's pulled up, particularly if it's
from that particular hospital, the supercomputer would be able
to file individual cases with that particular illness, and
you'll be able to address it directly, and ask that hospital,
if a veteran has not gotten a timely response, this is the
information we gave you, why haven't you responded? Because a
lot of these veterans are, particularly on some of the
surgeries they need, being put off time after time again. And
we got involved with some cases where the veteran could not
afford to drive to the hospital. So we said, we don't know, you
need to tell us why this veteran can't get there. Just saying
you can't do it--we need to look further, and say, well, we can
provide either the means to get there, or have a family or
friend to do that.
So, yes, it's just being able to accumulate information,
and use it. This isn't something that's going to be stored and
left--and just not used. Thank you for the question.
Mr. Baird. Thank you.
Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you. Mr. Tonko?
Mr. Tonko. Thank you, Madam Chair. Representative Norman,
interested in the additional pilot program activity for DOE----
Mr. Norman. Um-hum.
Mr. Tonko [continuing]. To see and explore where there
might be some other interagency interaction. Is there anything
that you have in mind that you think they might connect with,
in terms of an agency, and in a social or programmatic issue?
Mr. Norman. Yes, sir, Congressman. I think one of the
advantages, and why we put the pilot program in, is to give it
time to see what works and what doesn't work. And we're going
to put the burden on them to come up with whatever tools they
can use from any other agency that could provide not only the
information, but the backup information. So the pilot program
is to give them time to do that.
Second is, after 24 months, they'll present a written
response to Secretary Perry, and anybody else, as to the
effectiveness of it, what agencies have they reached out to,
and what agencies have given them useful information. Because
at the end of the day, it's to help that veteran. It's to help
that family of the veteran. And they've got a list of agencies
that they want to reach out to. Again, this was asked for by
the VA and the DOE.
Mr. Tonko. I appreciate that. You know, I think, Madam
Chair, and Ranking Member, it seems as though there's so much
data compilation in our given world, and the big challenge to
all of us, as a society, is to make sense of all that data
that's compiled, and to put it to good working use. So it seems
like this is a good opportunity for us to move forward, and
respond in the interim to the needs of the veterans. So I yield
back.
Mr. Norman. And, Congressman, I think, by having the 2-year
window to evaluate it, we're going to encourage the patients,
the veterans that are actually being served, to get involved.
Were they answered in a timely manner? Were the symptoms and
the issues that they were having medically, were they
addressed? So this is the interaction between not just the two
agencies, but the veteran, to get his opinion, the patient, and
that's what's exciting about this.
Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. Any other
questions on this issue? Guess not. Thank you very much for
your presentation, and we look forward to working with your
bill. Now we'll move to--any other Members at the dais here
would like to comment or ask questions on this particular bill?
Mr. Babin. Yes, ma'am. As a veteran myself, and with over
50,000 veterans in my district, in the 36th District of Texas,
from Houston over to Louisiana, this is very promising, because
some of the biggest problems we have, you talk to law
enforcement and the veterans groups, the mental health aspect
falls through the cracks, and it sounds like this is a bill
that--if I'm not already on it, please put me on it, OK?
Mr. Norman. Thank you, Congressman Babin.
Mr. Babin. Thank you. Just wanted to commend you.
Mr. Norman. The thing I was asking, how'd they come up with
the 24 to 26 million? How'd they pick that number out? And I
was happy to see that they both got together and came up with a
number that they thought was not too much, but could get the
job done. That's why we sunsetted it, and had the 2-year pilot
program, if you will. So, you know, we put the burden on them
to: One, to have enough funding, and then to evaluate it.
That's the beauty of this.
Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. Any other Member
of the panel like to comment on that particular--thank you for
presenting your bill, and I'm sure we'll have very favorable
approaches to it.
Now we'll go to Mr. Babin's bill, and see if there are any
questions there. My question, is this the Space Force bill that
you----
Mr. Babin. No, ma'am. This is----
Chairwoman Johnson. OK.
Mr. Babin [continuing]. Not the Space Force bill. This is
different. I'm not sure who's pushing that Space Force bill,
but, you know, all I can say to that is I'm glad the
Administration sees the need, you know, and the importance and
significance of space in today's world, and the future. So I'm
very glad to see that the proposal is coming forth. What it's
going to look like when it gets, you know, when it's finalized,
I don't know.
Chairwoman Johnson. Well, I ask that question because I've
had a number of questions asked me because there are two
different approaches coming at the same time, as it relates to
space. There's still some confusion as to whether this is one
commercial project, or more than one, and whether or not the
route to the moon, to Mars, has any relationship to the other
one. I think I understand the difference, but I just wanted to
be sure.
Mr. Babin. OK. Maybe I misunderstood your first question,
then. I thought you were talking about the proposed Space Force
that the President proposed months ago. Is that what you're
talking about, or are you talking about the----
Chairwoman Johnson. I'm really asking for the delineation.
There's some confusion as to whether or not the Space Force is
going to be intertwined with the vision of going to the moon,
to Mars. I think they're very different.
Mr. Babin. Yes, I have not heard anything about that. I've
actually got a couple of bills that I mentioned in my little
opening there. The first one is the American Space Commerce
Free Enterprise Act, which we passed out of Committee last
year, and we never could get it through the Senate,
unfortunately. But what that would do would be to streamline
the bureaucracy. We don't want a regulatory bureaucracy that
drives commercial space companies out of the United States,
overseas. We want to make it as easy as possible for them to do
business here, and have a one-stop shop so they don't have to
go to various agencies for licensing, and what have you, that
they would be able to go to the Department of Commerce, and
that would facilitate a lot more ease for them to get their,
you know, their projects done, and their launches, and
licensing, et cetera.
As far as your question about the Space Force, that's got a
military aspect, and I'm sure that what we develop on the civil
side certainly can enhance the war fighters, but that's not
what my bill addresses.
Chairwoman Johnson. OK. Thank you.
Mr. Babin. Yes, ma'am.
Chairwoman Johnson. Mr. Baird?
Mr. Baird. Congressman Babin, I have just one question, I
think, as it relates to your first concern there, about the way
we regulate commercial flight. You mentioned something about
not having so much regulation that we end up forcing it to
other countries. I just thought I'd give you a chance to have a
second thought on that, and make sure that I understand what
you mean by that.
Mr. Babin. Well, the way things are currently, it's
surprising, but many of our commercial space companies, whether
they be American or foreign, we need to facilitate them to
want, and enable them to come to the United States to do
business. It's a multibillion-dollar business that's going to
do nothing but grow in the future. And you'd be surprised, but
some companies go to Luxembourg, or other foreign nations,
because they have a lot less red tape to go through. And so
this is what our bill is all about. And we just want to make
sure that we have a burgeoning, robust space program that is
second to none in the world, and that people want to come to
the United States to do business.
Because, as you know, our Administration wants public-
private partnerships. We've seen amazing things develop out of
our commercial space industry over the last years. Reusable
rockets, you know, who would've thought, you know, 25 or 30
years ago we'd have private companies that might be able to
land men and women on the moon? We want to make sure that the
United States is the center of that world.
Mr. Baird. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Babin. Yes, sir.
Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you. Thank you very much. Now,
for our last two Members, I don't particularly have any
questions for either of you, but if you have further
statements, or if you might have questions for either one of
them, Mr. Tipton or Mr. Sherman.
Mr. Tipton. I think I'm good.
Chairwoman Johnson. OK.
Mr. Sherman. I would just stress how important it is, as we
deal with artificial intelligence, to not just focus on the
immediate problem at hand, how to develop a computer that will
give us better insight into weather, et cetera, or whatever
else we're focusing on, but that we also focus on avoiding
self-awareness and ambition. I yield back.
Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you.
Mr. Tipton. Again, thank you for the opportunity. A few of
us, the other night, went to First Steps, a showing down at the
Air and Space Museum, talking about when we sent man to the
moon for the first time. And I think the great blessing,
really, to this Committee is to be able to look out into what
is possible, not what is, that what is possible can certainly
impact what is to come. And I appreciate, really, the
progressive nature, in terms of being able to let us reach to
our highest and to our best levels, and, again, for the
opportunity to be able to come in. And I would encourage your
support for our legislation for the in situ mining.
Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much, and I appreciate
all of you coming, and I'm hoping that you will feel that your
thoughts and legislation will be given fair and open
opportunity to move forward.
Now, before we bring this hearing to a close, I'd like to
thank all of you, but also to say that our record will remain
open for 2 weeks for any additional statements from Members or
any additional information you'd like to submit for the record.
Thank you again for coming, and we're adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 10:21 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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