[Senate Hearing 115-427] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] S. Hrg. 115-427 NOMINATION OF MARGARET M. WEICHERT ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ NOMINATION OF MARGARET M. WEICHERT TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR MANAGEMENT, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET __________ DECEMBER 14, 2017 Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov/ Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 30-100 PDF WASHINGTON : 2019 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office, http://bookstore.gpo.gov. For more information, contact the GPO Customer Contact Center, U.S. Government Publishing Office. Phone 202-512-1800, or 866-512-1800 (toll-free). E-mail, [email protected]. COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin, Chairman JOHN McCAIN, Arizona CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri ROB PORTMAN, Ohio THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware RAND PAUL, Kentucky JON TESTER, Montana JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming GARY C. PETERS, Michigan JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire STEVE DAINES, Montana KAMALA D. HARRIS, California Christopher R. Hixon, Staff Director Gabrielle D'Adamo Singer, Chief Counsel David N. Brewer, Chief Investigative Counsel John D. Cuaderes, Staff Director, Subcommittee on Regulatory Affairs and Federal Management Margaret E. Daum, Minority Staff Director Phylicia L. Woods, Minority Counsel Claudine J. Brenner, Minority Counsel Joseph L. Lindblad, Minority Professional Staff Member, Subcommittee on Federal Spending Oversight and Emergency Management Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk Bonni E. Dinerstein, Hearing Clerk C O N T E N T S ------ Opening statements: Page Senator Lankford............................................. 1 Senator Peters............................................... 2 Senator Hassan............................................... 8 Senator Carper............................................... 10 Senator Heitkamp............................................. 13 Prepared statement: Senator Peters............................................... 21 WITNESSES Thursday, December 14, 2017 Margaret M. Weichert to be Deputy Director for Management, Office of Management and Budget Testimony.................................................... 3 Prepared statement........................................... 23 Biographical and financial information....................... 26 Letter from the Office of Government Ethics.................. 45 Responses to pre-hearing questions........................... 48 Responses to post-hearing questions.......................... 73 Letter of support............................................ 99 NOMINATION OF MARGARET M. WEICHERT ---------- THURSDAY, DECEMBER 14, 2017 U.S. Senate, Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, Washington, DC. The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. James Lankford presiding. Present: Senators Lankford, Daines, McCaskill, Carper, Tester, Heitkamp, Peters, Hassan, and Harris. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD Senator Lankford. Good morning, everyone. Today we are considering the nomination of Margaret Weichert to be the Deputy Director for Management at the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). The Committee takes these nominations very seriously and we are pleased to have a strong nominee before us today for this critical leadership role. As Chairman of the Subcommittee on Regulatory Affairs and Federal Management (RAFM), I can tell you I am particularly interested in the work of the Office of Management and Budget. Ms. Weichert comes to government service after a highly successful career in the private sector, where she was a leader in the financial and electronic payment technologies, an entrepreneur, a proven executive. Throughout her career she has demonstrated particular skill at strategic planning and policy implementation, as well as leading large departments of people. Ms. Weichert received her bachelor of science from Georgetown School of Foreign Service in 1989. She then went on to study economics as a Rotary Scholar at the University of Sussex, and later earned her MBA from the University of California, Berkeley in 1995. Ms. Weichert began her career at Accenture in 1995, her work there focusing on the fast-changing world of e-commerce, which has changed quite a bit since 1995. Ms. Weichert took this experience and used it to launch her first of her own companies, Achex. Ms. Weichert. Achex. Senator Lankford [continuing]. Achex; got it--an alternative electronic payment company, which she later successfully sold to First Data Corporation. After time at First Data Corporation, Ms. Weichert continued her prestigious career at Bank of America, before leaving to found her own consulting group, the Morgan Weichert Group, while also serving as a principal at two other consultancies, Market Platform Dynamics and the Global Economics Group. Most recently, Ms. Weichert was a principal at Ernst & Young. Ms. Weichert, thank you for being here today, for bringing your business acumen to the Federal Government service. I look forward to hearing more about you and your plan to bring these successes and these experiences, and the wisdom that you bring with it to bear for the support of the mission of the Office of Management and Budget. Committee staff reached out to a variety of your colleagues and affiliates, as you know well, because they probably called you right after committee staff talked to them. All of those individuals that we talked to spoke very highly of you. Committee staff also had the opportunity to be able to interview Ms. Weichert on an array of issues. Ms. Weichert has thoughtfully and competently answered each question put to her as part of the vetting process. To date, the Committee has found you to be qualified for the position to which you have been nominated so we are moving on to this level and this layer of the process. Again, we look forward to hearing more from you during this hearing, and I will recognize Ranking Member Peters for his opening statement. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS\1\ Senator Peters. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ms. Weichert, for being here today and for your willingness to serve as well. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Peters appears in the Appendix on page 21. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- In reviewing your qualifications, I noticed your particular expertise and interest in payments technology and modernization. That is something that I have actually been personally working on here in the Senate, and I hope that it is something that we can work on together in the future, should you be confirmed. As we consider your nomination, I want to acknowledge the widespread agreement in this room today that we should always be finding ways to work together in a bipartisan way to make government more efficient and more effective for the American people. This Committee has a strong record of bipartisanship accomplishment and holding government officials accountable, protecting whistleblowers, empowering the inspector general community, cutting unnecessary red tape, and conducting diligent oversight to root out instances of waste, fraud, and abuse. That is what I am looking out for, as the Ranking Member of the Federal Spending Oversight (FSO) Subcommittee of this Committee, and I know the Deputy Director for Management position at OMB plays a very important role in this effort as well. We need to make sure that we empower Federal Agencies with the resources, the talent, and the expertise that they need to carry out their critical missions instead of undermining them or making blunt policy choices, while also looking out for opportunities to reduce inefficiencies, streamline government operations, and avoid duplications of effort. Ms. Weichert, I hope you share these goals and I look forward to hearing more about your management agenda and your specific plans for improving the Federal Government procurement policies, the information technology (IT) systems, and financial and personal management practices. We should approach these issues remembering that we have been entrusted as stewards of the taxpayer dollars and that we should work together so that government works for everyone. Again, I look forward to your testimony. Senator Lankford. Ms. Weichert, it is the custom of the Committee to swear in all witnesses that appear before us, so if you would not mind, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony that you will give before this Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God? Ms. Weichert. I do. Senator Lankford. Thank you. You may be seated. Let the record reflect that the witness answered in the affirmative. Ms. Weichert, we would like to recognize you for your opening statement and then we would like to be able to just ask some follow up questions from there. If you do not mind, during your opening statement, to also introduce any family or friends that have joined you, so this Committee can get a chance to see some of those folks, and you can recognize some people that have traveled a long way to be able to be here with you. Ms. Weichert. Sure. Senator Lankford. Thank you. TESTIMONY OF MARGARET H. WEICHERT\1\ TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR MANAGEMENT, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET Ms. Weichert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I would like to thank you, the Ranking Member, and the Members of the Committee for your gracious welcome. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ The prepared statement of Ms. Weichert appears in the Appendix on page 23. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is an honor to appear today before this Committee as the nominee for Deputy Director for Management at the Office of Management and Budget. I would also like to thank my family for joining today. My two boys, James and Andrew are here getting a real-life civics lesson, and my parents, Ed and Mary Alice Morgan, are here from wintry upstate New York to support me. It is even more special because today is my mother's birthday, so happy birthday, Mom. Senator Carper. You know that means we are going to have to ask really tough questions. No softballs on her birthday. [Laughter.] Ms. Weichert. I really appreciate their support and encouragement, in spite of long hours and much time spent away from home. My motivation to leave our home in Georgia and the private sector for a role in Washington is rooted in a long family tradition of public service. I am following in the footsteps of family members who served the country through military service, elected office, in State government, and in the Postal Service. I would also like to thank the Members of this Committee and their staffs for meeting with me and sharing perspectives on key management issues facing our country. If confirmed, I look forward to working with you to identify and implement innovative management solutions. Finally, I would like to thank the President and OMB Director Mulvaney for inviting me to serve. I feel humbled and honored as I embark on my first experience in public service. The Deputy Director for Management is an important role charged with leading a broad range of disciplines that provide the management foundation for the core missions of government. In and of themselves, functions like IT, information security, human capital management, finance, accounting, performance management, and procurement may not be inherently exciting, but these functions provide necessary and essential capabilities needed to support the work of government agencies. The management function at OMB is challenged to use a fact- based approach to balance financial stewardship and efficiency with effectiveness and transparency. Government agency missions vary widely, but all rely on management capabilities. Whether rescuing families and their dogs, cats, and livestock from fires in California or floodwaters in Texas, helping small businesses compete for government contracts, or allowing farmers to efficiently get loans or crop insurance, or supporting the health care needs of our veterans, the business of government in every case relies on mission-critical management services. Twenty-plus years in the private sector should position me well to drive transformational change and better align Federal Government management capabilities to the realities and needs of the 21st Century. Building on an academic background in economics, management, and finance, I have spent the last 20- plus years driving customer and shareholder value in publicly traded companies and as an entrepreneur. I have direct experience with P&L management, budgeting, capital allocation, new product development, innovation, risk and compliance, financial reporting and analytics, and business development. I have done these activities as an employee of two large publicly traded companies, Bank of America and First Data, and as a consultant to large publicly traded companies in the financial services, financial technology, and retail industries. In these private sector roles, I have been privileged to use a wide range of leading practices, including Six Sigma, Design for Six Sigma, Agile development, business process automation, and user-centered design to create and implement complex transformational change agendas with strong positive financial and customer experience impacts. In all my private sector roles, I have sought to bring a spirit of innovation and a passion for doing the right thing, to drive breakthrough results and thinking. I have led large teams of diverse talent to achieve results that even they did not believe possible. And I have been as excited about innovating and support areas, like payments, accounts payable, and commercial cash management, as I have been about innovations in mobile banking or online payments. Many of these innovations, even in non-customer-facing areas, were innovative enough to result in 14 successful U.S. patents. My hope, if confirmed, is to bring this spirit of innovation, combined with private sector practices, to driver greater efficiency, effectiveness, and transparency in Federal management functions. Moreover, I would like to build on existing management successes to create and implement a transformational vision for the 21st Century management. Through the President's Management Agenda and the President's Management Council, if confirmed, I would focus on three transformation areas. The first would be IT modernization; the second, data accountability and transparency; the third, people and the workforce for the 21st Century. In conclusion, I would like to thank you for your input and consideration. If confirmed as Deputy Director for Management, I look forward to working with you to improve the efficiency, effectiveness, and transparency of the Federal Government through improvements in management competencies. Thank you again. I look forward to answering your questions. Senator Lankford. Thank you. Ms. Weichert, I need to ask three mandatory questions that we ask of all nominees before they come before this Committee and then I am going to defer questions to the end, and the Ranking Member Peters will then ask questions. The first question, is there anything that you are aware of in your background that might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to which you have been nominated? Ms. Weichert. No. Senator Lankford. Do you know of anything personal or otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been nominated? Ms. Weichert. No. Senator Lankford. Last question, do you agree, without reservation, to comply with any request or summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are confirmed? Ms. Weichert. Yes. Senator Lankford. Thank you very much. Ranking Member Peters. Senator Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Weichert, I would like to confirm that a few of the answers in your questionnaire remain the same today as you appear before us. As you know, conducting oversight of the Executive Branch is one of the most critical functions of this Committee, and so I am going to read you a few questions from your questionnaire and just to ask whether you would respond yes or no in public today. If confirmed, do you agree, without reservation, to reply to any reasonable request for information from the Ranking Member of any duly constituted committee of Congress? Ms. Weichert. Yes. Senator Peters. If confirmed, do you agree, without reservation, to reply to any reasonable request for information from Members of Congress, generally, regardless of party affiliation? Ms. Weichert. So I look forward to working with Congress on all of the issues that are relevant to this Committee and to others, and I seek to be as open and proactive in sharing responses and working with those Members. Senator Peters. The question said reasonable requests, so are you open to working---- Ms. Weichert. Yes. Senator Peters [continuing]. On reasonable requests? Ms. Weichert. Yes. Senator Peters. Thank you. If confirmed, do you commit to take all reasonable steps to ensure that you and your agency comply with deadlines established by Members of Congress for a request of information? Ms. Weichert. Yes. Senator Peters. Well thank you. Ms. Weichert, the position you are nominated for is the third-highest ranking position at OMB, and you have indicated in your questionnaire that you expect Director Mulvaney to delegate responsibility for much of OMB's management agenda to you? Ms. Weichert. Yes. Senator Peters. So that being said, since the time you have completed your questionnaire, Director Mulvaney has chosen to accept another role, as also the acting Director at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). As far as we know, for the time being, he is only planning to be around the OMB maybe a couple of days, maybe three. We are not sure how much time he is actually going to be at OMB. And I certainly did not realize that the Director of the Office of Management Budget as a part-time job, but apparently it is a part-time job now. But Ms. Weichert, do you believe that the position of OMB Director should be a full-time job or a part-time job? Ms. Weichert. I believe it is a full-time job and I believe the Director is operating two full-time jobs. He has experience doing that in the private sector as well, when he was running a small business. So, absolutely, I believe it is a full-time job. Senator Peters. So a 40-hour work week? Ms. Weichert. Yes. The Director is working two full, all- day, every-day jobs. Senator Peters. OK. Although you expect to become the point person for key management functions at OMB, if confirmed, what do you intend to do if the Director is just not there and you need to have a face-to-face conversation with the Director, and he is on his day working, or maybe not there? Ms. Weichert. So business as usual is continuing at OMB since the announcement a couple of weeks back, and I have not, in my role as senior advisor, had any challenges being in touch with the Director. He is highly responsive to all the requests that the Management Office has had. So, he is responding to emails, and his actual physical location is literally across the street, so there has not been any challenges in that regard. Senator Peters. To what extent have you discussed this dual hat arrangement with the Director, and how would you expect, as your role as Deputy Director for Management to change if he remains at the CFPB, if this part-time job continues for the long time? Ms. Weichert. So I have not had a private conversation with the Director on this topic, but in sharing with the staff broadly at the OMB, he made it very clear a couple of things, that he takes the independence in both roles very seriously, and he anticipates working both jobs in full-time capacity. And, again, I do not foresee any challenges and have not seen any major shifts in how the organization is operating. Senator Peters. Very well. To be effective and secure in cyberspace, every Federal department and agency requires a modern, defensible network architecture. Yet today, even though the Federal Government spends about $80 billion every year on IT, nearly every government agency procures and manages its own IT infrastructure, as I know you are aware. This means that each agency independently identifies and assesses possible vendors, which often results in significant duplication, huge price variances across the government, and also inconsistent security outcomes. The Obama Administration began to address this challenge by beginning to transition toward cloud technologies and other shared security services, and you have indicated in your testimony, both written as well as orally here today that IT modernization will be a major priority for you, if you are confirmed. So if confirmed, would you tell us more specifically what you would do to reduce the cost and achieve operational efficiencies needed to meet today's significant cyber security challenges? Ms. Weichert. So thank you for the question and I really appreciate it. It is an absolutely urgent issue facing the country. There are a couple of things that really jump to mind. I think a lot of the work that has already happened around moving to the cloud, and shared services focus heavily on improvements in efficiency. I also think, in reference to the point you made about paying different amounts across government for effectively the same service, there is an initiative around technology business management (TBM), looking at creating data standardization and taxonomy across government, so we really can compare like with like and get the best deal for the American people. I think that is another major initiative that I think is linked to the challenge that you raised there. Senator Peters. Are you concerned that the Federal Chief Information Officer (CIO) position remains unfilled? Ms. Weichert. One of my priorities, if confirmed, would be to really get all of the positions filled, and I know the Director is actively working on doing so. So I would absolutely want to see that position filled as soon as possible. Senator Peters. And there are many unfilled positions all across Federal Government, in these CIO positions. You will be working to fill those as well, or at least expressing the urgency of getting these vital positions filled? Ms. Weichert. Absolutely expressing the urgency. I think it is quite obvious, when I have met with the Chief Information Officer Council (CIOC) that that is a critical need, and actually elevating the profile of CIOs in government is something that I think is very important. Senator Peters. Great. Thank you so much. Ms. Weichert. Thank you. Senator Lankford. Senator Hassan. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN Senator Hassan. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and Ranking Member, and good morning and congratulations on your nomination, and congratulations and thank you to your family as well. This is a family commitment and affair, and thank you for sharing, and particularly to your sons, thank you for sharing your mom with us. Ms. Weichert, if you are confirmed as Deputy Director, you will be responsible for overseeing program evaluation activities. This evaluation of programs net effects, their successes and failures, and improvement strategies is absolutely critical to ensuring that we are putting Federal dollars to their best possible use, on scaling back or eliminating ones that do not work. As you said earlier, most of your experience has been in the private sector where I am sure you evaluated programs and procedure regularly, and you have now also spent some time as a senior advisor at OMB. Based on your experience in and out of government, how do you think we should be evaluating government programs? What metrics should we be using, and do our existing evaluation tools capture the right information? Ms. Weichert. So thank you, Senator. I appreciate the question. I think it is a very important question. In my role as senior advisor, I have gotten familiarity with some of the metrics that are in place and some of the tools that are used for oversight and accountability around our programs. There are a number of websites that share data with the public. There is spending.gov. There is paymentaccuracy.gov. And one of my priorities in the second sort of pillar I mentioned around data accountability and transparency would really be to understand and get a baseline of all of those metrics, all of the elements of data that we are sharing, both internal to government and externally, and get a taxonomy and a framework so that we can efficiently and effectively report without creating undue burden on agencies---- Senator Hassan. Right. Ms. Weichert [continuing]. But actually get to actionable intelligence. And I think that is maybe the most important thing. I see a lot of reporting. I am not yet clear on exactly which things are most effective---- Senator Hassan. Right. Ms. Weichert [continuing]. And that would be a priority for me. Senator Hassan. OK. That makes sense. There have been some proposals to devote a portion of every program's funding to actually evaluating the program. Do you support that kind of proposal? Ms. Weichert. I have not seen the specific proposal so I do not know in detail. What I can say is it is a leading practice to have evaluation and QA capabilities built into programs broadly. Senator Hassan. Yes. Ms. Weichert. But I would want to see what the proposal looked like. Senator Hassan. Yes. I mean, one of the things that strikes me is we really do not necessarily go through an evaluation process with so many of our programs in a meaningful way, partly because coordination and evaluation takes resources---- Ms. Weichert. Absolutely. Senator Hassan [continuing]. And it takes focus. And so you have to figure out a way to devote those kind of resources up front, and that what might be one way to do it. I wanted to turn now to another priority you talked about broadly. We know that we are going through rapid change in this economy, and automation poses some challenges for us in the Federal Government. As a member of both this Committee and the Health, Education, Labor, and Pension (HELP) Committee, I am cognizant of the need for both the Federal and private workforces to address the challenges that automation may cause for workers in the coming decades, from putting formerly paper forms online to digitizing parts of the customs process in international airports. We can already see the impact of automation on many areas of Federal Government. Given your background in online transactions, a field that has changed dramatically in the past decade due to advanced technology, I expect this is something you have given some thought to as well. So what do you see as the biggest challenges facing the Federal Government when it comes to automation? Ms. Weichert. So I think this is actually a pivotal piece of making progress, because I have heard, anecdotally, as senior advisor, many instances where we have actually, in government, shied away from the right technology solution or efficiency solution or customer experience solution because we did not have an easy way to deal with the people who are currently performing that function. I actually believe that is a linchpin to moving forward on both the efficiency and the customer experience agenda. So re- skilling---- Senator Hassan. Right. Ms. Weichert [continuing]. Is critical---- Senator Hassan. Yes. Ms. Weichert [continuing]. And there are a number of places in government, cyber being one of the ones that Senator Peters mentioned, customer experience is another one, data science is another, where if we have great Federal employees doing a function that was really about what was, status quo in the 1950s---- Senator Hassan. Yes. Ms. Weichert [continuing]. How do we bring those people into jobs that are relevant in the 21st Century? Senator Hassan. Well, and that is music to my ears, because I think there is a win-win here. Often people see this as a binary choice. You either automate or you keep your employees. And, in fact, we know we need skilled employees in so many growing areas, and you kind of brought me to my last area of concern, which is cyber security, and following up on what you and Senator Peters were talking about. It is one thing to understand it as a priority and to understand, perhaps, that the separate purchasing activities of various agencies means we have decentralized and inconsistent levels of cyber security throughout Federal Government. I would suggest that that may be true in business and in State government as well. But how do we not only prioritize cyber security, putting in the right platforms to improve it, but how do we go about engaging in cyber security, really in the ongoing way that we know it has to happen? There are daily attacks on systems everywhere. We have ongoing technology that we need to understand, to practice the kind of cyber hygiene that is so important. So how do we change our culture around cyber security and then make sure we have the skill sets on board that will really allow us to be at the forefront? Ms. Weichert. So thank you for that question. Absolutely a critical element of the IT modernization strategy that I believe we need to pursue, and if confirmed, I would very proactively pursue. I think using some of the new authorities that Congress has included in the Modernizing Government Technology (MGT) bill that hopefully will be signed into law soon, as well as the IT Modernization Fund, hopefully will be appropriated, will allow us to hopefully shine the light on key projects that will help make it easier for agencies to prioritize these activities. And I think what was in the MGT, allowing working capital funds to be used and reinvested in key technology priorities, is another area. Obviously, I think it is a large area and it is one that deserves deeper, richer study, both leveraging learnings from the private sector but also leveraging what have been those barriers to that in government. And I would look forward to working with this Committee and others in Congress to get that fact base so we can really move from kind of contemplation into action. Senator Hassan. Well thank you very much, and thank you, Mr. Chair, for your indulgence. I am a bit over. Senator Lankford. Senator Carper. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER Senator Carper. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To our witness, to our nominee, welcome and congratulations. Thank you for spending some time with my staff and me in the past week. I just want to say to your sons, James and Andrew--what are they, 17 and 14? Ms. Weichert. 17 and 13, yes. Senator Carper. 17 and 13. And they go to school where, in Georgia? Ms. Weichert. No. They go to school in Falls Church. Senator Carper. Oh, OK. Good. I just want to thank you for your willingness to miss school today. Ms. Weichert. [Laughs.] Senator Carper. Being here with your mom, to have her back. That is good. And to be with your grandmother on her birthday. I always called my mom on her birthday, for years and years. And she passed away about a decade ago at the tender age of 83. And I would also call her every year on my birthday, to thank her for bringing me into the world. Those were very special conversations. So I know you are especially proud of your daughter, Ms. Morgan, and Mr. Morgan. When we talked the other day, I think I mentioned I once had the pleasure of being Governor of Delaware for about 8 years and was very active in the National Governors Association (NGA). One of the things we did at the National Governors Association, every 2 years, right after the election, within 2 weeks after the election, the current Governors and spouses would host the new Governors, the Governors-elect, and their spouses, at new Governor school, at some place around the country. And it was just three full days of the old guys and gals sort of bearing their souls and explaining to the new folks all the mistakes we had made, and what we had learned from those mistakes, in hope that the new folks would not make the same mistakes. You have the opportunity--we do not have a new OMB Deputy Director of Management school for newbies, but you do have a good bench to draw from, and Beth Cobert is one of the names I have mentioned to you. I think you may have spoken with her. Another fellow, Brian Deese. They are both back in the private sector. Beth used to run McKinsey & Company's operations out on the West Coast and she is back in the private sector now. She is just brilliant. And Brian Deese is as well. Another source--and I think I have mentioned this to you, and I think you have already reached out to the Government Accountability Office (GAO)--you will not find a better public servant than Gene Dodaro, and the leadership that he provides there is, I think, incredible. One of the things that a fellow named Coburn, we used to have a Republican on this Committee. His name was Tom Coburn from Oklahoma. And he was always interested in doing the right thing. He did not like to waste money, and I think certainly the three of us sitting here feel the same way. And one of the things that Tom and I would do, along with our colleagues, is we realized that we are just one oversight committee, but to the extent that we could partner with GAO, to the extent that we could partner with OMB, to the extent we could partner with inspectors general (IGs) around the Federal Government, we could get a lot more done. And you mentioned that you have a passion. What would you bring to this job? A spirit of innovation and passion for doing the right thing. We need to do the right thing. We need to find fiscally responsible ways to do the right thing. And in meeting with you, my sense is that is what you would like to do, and we want to be helpful and supportive of that. You have a position, a CIO position, is that right, that it has not been filled, or you will? Ms. Weichert. Right. Senator Carper. Yes. And there is a woman named Phyllis Schneck that my colleagues may or may not remember. She came out of the private sector. She worked in cyber for Homeland Security. I will meet actually meet with her, talk with her later today. And she is back in the private sector. She is brilliant, and I think somebody who would contribute a huge amount, in the short time she was with the Federal Government, and I think could do more so. Those are a couple of names that I would just bring to your attention. One of the things that we have worked on in this committee forever is improper payments. We focus a lot on the high-risk list. And Tom Coburn and I used to take the high-risk list as our to-do list. One of the things on the high-risk list forever has been property, real property management, and that is an area where we have made pretty good progress. Rob Portman and others on this Committee, along with me, have focused a whole lot on property management and making sure that we are doing a better job. You will inherit, I think, a better plan in place, a better system in place to deal with the property management, and I would just ask you to take it to the next level. And I think it is sort of teed up for you to do that. I do not know if we mentioned when we met, we have jurisdiction, this Committee, on Homeland Security Department. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS), I will just say to James and Andrew, it was created right after September 11, 2001. It has about 240,000 people who are part of the Department of Homeland Security, but they are spread all over the world. They are also spread all over the greater metropolitan Washington area. It is a terribly inefficient way, a very hard way--John Kelly would tell you, as the former Secretary. Jeh Johnson would tell you, as the former Secretary. Tom Ridge would tell you. Janet Napolitano would tell you. It is an impossible management situation, to manage that many people, just spread all over hell's half acre. And there is a property called St. Elizabeths which is here and actually in Washington, D.C. Old property. And the last administration, actually, suggested that it would be a good place to create a headquarters for Department of Homeland Security. I first heard about it--I saw this as a crazy idea. As it turns out it is not. The General Services Administration (GSA) figured out a way to save a lot of money, putting a lot of people in that large space, that large campus. And we have invested a couple billion dollars, and we basically--it is now like dead in the water, almost dead in the water, which is, I think, just a shame. And you are going to hear a little bit more a little later on about St. Elizabeths, and DHS, they need a home. They need a way. Whoever was the Secretary there, Kirstjen is just confirmed, they are going to need some attention to this. So I just bring it to your attention. Talk to us about improper payments, just a little bit if you would. Every year, for every 2 years, for years, we have heard about improper payments. We have done a lot to deal with improper payments. Any thoughts that you would share with us on how to approach that? Ms. Weichert. Sure. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate your thoughts and your thoughtfulness. Senator Carper. Sorry to ramble so much. Ms. Weichert. No. I appreciated the thought. As it happens, payments is something I care a lot about. My observations about what are termed ``improper payments'' here in government really constitutes three major categories. One is the actual fraud and abuse, the second are errors, so payments that are in the wrong amount or to the wrong address, things of that nature, and then the third are payments that do not have sufficient documentation. And I think the solutions to those three distinct categories are somewhat different. The Do Not Pay database, I think, has been a really useful tool, from my observation, and I think extending that more broadly in government and also to State and local governments, and that is in the works, that seems like a really great idea to address specific issues around the fraud and abuse piece. I think the two other pieces have a lot to do with process improvement activities, and, frankly, I have not seen a lot of the root cause issues, and they seem to vary a lot agency to agency. So, if confirmed, I would welcome the opportunity to dig deeper and look for solutions in those areas. Senator Carper. All right. Thank you. If I could have maybe 30 more seconds, Mr. Chairman, could I? Senator Lankford. I will have to bring that up with Senator Heitkamp. We will have to decide together. Senator Heitkamp. Go for it. Senator Carper. We just learned this past week the Department of Defense (DOD), after years of being badgered by us, this Committee, is going to try to achieve a full audit. They have not done that ever, since 1947. And you may want to keep an eye on them, make sure they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. The other thing is we are looking at a request for defense spending increase over the next 10 years of, I do not know, $600 billion or more, and we spend more than the next 10 nations combined on defense. Is not that amazing? The United States spends more on defense than the next 10 nations combined, and we have a request for another $600-plus billion. DOD has never achieved an audit, an unqualified audit, and they have huge cost overruns for major weapons systems, spare parts, all kinds of problems. I would just ask you to keep an eye on them. I am a retired Navy captain, love the Navy, love the military, but in a day and age when we are trying to do things more efficiently, DOD has to be a big part of that as well. Thank you. Good luck. We look forward to working with you. And again to your family, a special thanks for being with us today, and having her back, raising her the way that you have done that, and for her kids, continuing to raise you. All right. Thank you. Senator Lankford. Senator Heitkamp. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HEITKAMP Senator Heitkamp. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for coming and thanks to your family for providing you with the support. I am always amazed that one of the biggest challenges we have in the Federal Government is improving efficiency, convincing the taxpayers that we are, in fact, serious about making sure that every dime that is spent is spent in the right direction, and that we do have their best fiscal interest at heart. But yet, these sometimes are lonely meetings for me and the Chairman, as we work through a lot of these issues. And so we care deeply, especially on our subcommittee, about the role you will play in improving efficiency, responding to GAO, responding to IGs, really pushing, as the former Ranking Member Carper said, really pushing to make sure that the to-do list actually gets accomplished. I have a concern. Ever since OMB has announced that they are, in fact, looking at reorganization, and every Cabinet position is doing this--we have been doing oversight but yet we have not been able to get anyone from OMB to give us a status report. And, they are the people who are on point on this, and I think if we are going to be successful doing our oversight, we definitely need cooperation from OMB. And I am little concerned that we are not getting it right now. So, I am going to ask you a series of questions, and just yes or no. You do not have to expound on them, but I think they would be pretty easy. Do you believe it is important for the talent, mission, and morale of our Federal workforce to accomplish the goals of the Federal Government, to have high morale? Ms. Weichert. Yes. Senator Heitkamp. Do you believe it is OK to sacrifice talent, mission, and morale for the sake of reducing workforce through attrition? Ms. Weichert. I am sorry. Could you restate the question? Senator Heitkamp. Attrition is typically, we are not going to hire anyone. A lot of times what you see in attrition is that the most valuable employee is the one who walks out the door, and that is a role we desperately need to fill. So if we are going to reduce workforce it should be more strategic. Would you agree with that---- Ms. Weichert. I agree. Absolutely. Senator Heitkamp [continuing]. That attrition is not necessarily the way to reduce Federal workforce? Ms. Weichert. If you lose your best talent, absolutely not. Senator Heitkamp. Will the reorganization process be stronger if OMB gives Federal employees and stakeholders a voice in the process and ensures that they understand the goals of the effort, as well as how it will be executed? Ms. Weichert. So as senior advisor, I have not been involved directly in the reorganization process, so I am not super informed on the specifics of who is involved. Senator Heitkamp. Yes. I will tell you this. I have gone through, in my role in State government I managed several agencies. I was never successful without involving the people who actually do the work. And there is a concern that this is going to be top-down without actually getting folks who do the work day to day involved. And so I would strongly recommend that it is important that you do things with employees and not to them. And so just a little bit of advice there. Will the reorganization process be stronger if OMB works to make sure Congress understands its goals? Ms. Weichert. Yes. Senator Heitkamp. Yes. So I think when we go through kind of these lists of questions, it is important that you understand, from my perspective, why I am concerned about this reorganization and why I need to have more information. So, if confirmed, will you commit to getting up to speed on the reorganization and to providing testimony or input back to this Committee or the Subcommittee? Ms. Weichert. So if confirmed I expect I would be getting more involved and getting up to speed to it, and I would look to work collaboratively with this Committee and relevant other committees on an open exchange. Senator Heitkamp. I hope we can expedite your confirmation. I find you perfectly well qualified. There is a larger role of oversight that OMB plays with this Committee and when we do not get the information back from OMB I do not think we can perform the responsibility that we have on the other half of the Committee's name, which is government affairs. So another issue that I have worked on has been the Program Management Improvement and Accountability Act, which is something I penned and co-authored with my colleague, Senator Ernst. It was signed into law. We are now in that process of seeing implementation, and definitely believe that this was an important piece of legislation, needs to be implemented correctly. And so I just want to ask you a series of questions. The law had many one year deadlines, and some of those have slipped and we have not seen the level of attention. So, if confirmed, how will you take leadership on and execute your responsibilities under the Program Management Improvement and Accountability Act? Ms. Weichert. So thank you, Senator. As senior advisor, I have not been involved in any of the issues around that particular legislation. If confirmed, I would seek to get a baseline on where we are and what, if any, roadblocks there are to effectively complying with the law and also really ensuring that the spirit of what was intended is being achieved. Senator Heitkamp. I think the Chairman has talked about his visits to Federal agencies and his oversight that he does day to day, and, we cannot underestimate what a bad manager does to efficiency, what a bad manager does to morale, and that this is intended not to be a blunt instrument but intended to be very strategic. And if we do not have buy-in and enforcement and a commitment at OMB, we will not realize the benefit of this kind of focus. And so I really would appreciate this becoming a higher priority over at OMB once you get over there, or once you are confirmed into this position. Ms. Weichert. Yes. I look forward to working with you on this, if confirmed. Senator Heitkamp. OK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Lankford. Thank you, Senator Heitkamp. Ms. Weichert, as I have mentioned before, this should be a familiar spot for you in conversation with Senator Heitkamp and I, because we have a long stack of questions. And as I visited with Mick Mulvaney in the days before, and have said how can we learn more about the restructuring process--we have already done two hearings on it. And, by the way, in both hearings we had very good input from the agencies saying that it seems OMB is listening, they are getting feedback from the individuals that work in the agency. I think that is exceptionally important. I learn more about an agency walking around through the cubicle farm, visiting with everyone there, than I learn by talking to the managers, most of the time. So getting that input is exceptionally important to be able to make sure any structural changes are made with wisdom in it. But as I have asked Mick Mulvaney, point blank, and said, ``Who will be the point person to help us walk through that?'' he has said to me, ``The person that still needs to be confirmed. Ms. Weichert is going to be the one that will be the point person for this in the days ahead.'' So I know you have been separated out from that, but we are looking forward to you getting up to speed on it and so we can find ways to be able to help in this. Any lasting positive change does not happen with just administrative actions. It happens when it functions through Congress. So we look forward to not only seeing the reports, your counsel on it, your advice once you see it, but then actually bringing it here and so we can have the opportunity to be able to have input and to start trying to be able to implement this from a congressional level. Stability in government is both a friend and an enemy. It is an enemy in times when we are stuck. It is a friend in the times that there is predictability for the employees to be able to know their job and what to be able to do. So we want to help in that. That is not necessarily a question, but is certainly a sense that we are looking forward to ongoing conversation on this in the days ahead, as you work through this. Let me talk a little bit about cooperation across agencies. OMB has a unique responsibility that each agency head takes care of all the leadership there, but OMB has the responsibility of looking at all agencies and saying we have five of basically the same things happening in five different agencies, with slightly different titles. We have to figure out how to do greater efficiency here, or how to figure out how to get two entities that could help each other actually helping each other. You brought up one of those already, the Do Not Pay list. We have pounded for years on the wonderfully named Death Master File (DMF) that is out there. That was sequestered away in one entity and not shared with others, and so we have people sending checks out to people that another agency knows have been long since dead for 10 years, but no one else has shared the information. Here is my question. How can you help us break down some of those silos, getting agencies actually talking to each other, and having enough authority in your role leading management to be able to say, ``You and you are going to play well together and you have to share information''? How does that happen? Ms. Weichert. So thank you for the question and the comments, Senator. This is actually not a unique challenge to government, and, in fact, the Death Master File issue is an issue for banks, for different reasons. But if someone calls into a bank, like Bank of America, and tells them that someone is deceased, they do not want to be getting bills from another part of that same organization. So what I have done in the private sector, and I think works well, is rather than leading with a mandate from the top is using facts to help create stories about how the various components will win by pulling together, and also getting facts about what are the structural impediments. I know there are privacy considerations and other previous statutes put in place, for good reasons, to prevent untoward use of data. But to really understand, OK, what is the spirit of that original intent, and then what does it prevent that we might like to do today, and that is, I think, an area where proactively I would see, if confirmed, leading the analysis to get identification of those ideas, and then working with Congress to say what is the right way to punch through some of those ideas so we can make real progress. Senator Lankford. Yes. We have to make real progress on this and it has been a great frustration. For years, I have asked the Census Bureau why they cannot cooperate with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). The IRS gathers information from just about every American every April. The Census does it once every 10 years. And for some reason the two of them cannot seem to talk to each other, so that every 10 years when we do our taxes, we are also completing our census at the same time. Now that does not seem like a radical concept to me, but for years I have worked with Census, and for years they have said they are studying it. If there is some legislative barrier there that does not allow the two of them to cooperate, we just need to know so we can get it fixed. But that is billions of dollars in the Census creating a structure that the IRS already has in place, and while we will not capture every single person, I bet we capture more than the original mail-in does from Census. That is one example of a lot of them. We just need someone looking at the whole structure and saying how can we work better together on this. You and I have spoken, as well, about the hiring authorities. There are 120 different hiring authorities in the Federal Government. I do not think we need 120 different hiring authorities, but we need great employees here. And a lot of those great employees are retiring in the days ahead. Every agency says, ``I have 120 hiring authorities but what I really want is direct hiring authority and I do not have that.'' Can you help us be able to work through this maze, so we can try to fix some of the hiring authority issues? As I have mentioned to you before, it is fine for the President to say we need to have more people on the border with Customs and Border Patrol (CBP), both Southern and Northern Border. That is fine to say that, except it takes 450 days to hire one agent. That cannot be. So we have to be able to figure out how to be able to process that. Is that something that you are already working on and are you thinking on? Ms. Weichert. So thank you. Absolutely, I think that is critical, and the third pillar around the workforce for the 21st Century really speaks to what are all the elements that we need to get in place so that we can do all of the parts of people management from vetting, hiring, deploying, adjudicating, and getting to be efficient, up to the 21st Century standards. Many of the policies that create these slow timelines today were established in the post-World War II era, again, for very good reasons, but they are not necessarily relevant in a digital world that is expecting you could go to Monster.com and hire someone in 2 days if you wanted to, and I could hire a nanny and get her background check online today if I wanted to. Senator Lankford. Or you can go to the Federal Government and get it in 6 months. Ms. Weichert. Exactly. So that is, again, I think, a linchpin of making progress on the broader management agenda. Senator Lankford. OK. There are a couple of bills that are in the process of moving through right now. The Federal Agency Customer Experience (FACE) Act that Senator McCaskill and I have worked on has passed through the Senate already. We sent it over to the House. That deals with just basically getting customer feedback, allowing agencies to do what basically every rental car company and hotel already does. If you stay at a hotel, they send you an email afterwards saying, ``How did we do?'' The Federal agencies do not typically do that, getting customer service feedback, because of a whole host of complexities, just getting customer service feedback. We would like to help with that, and, quite frankly, I think that is a good tool for you to be able to have in working with agencies, that they are getting customer feedback and getting some continuous improvement. The second thing is a bill called the Taxpayers Right-To- Know. It is creating a list that currently does not list, that is, every agency just saying what they do. I would expect one of your first questions, when you walk into this role, is to be able to contact agency heads and say, ``Tell me what you do in every program.'' Most of those agencies are going to say, ``We do not know.'' Ms. Weichert. Yes. Senator Lankford. I think that is a problem, that we cannot supervise what we cannot see, and they cannot lead what they cannot see. So just forming a basic list of every program, how it is evaluated, if it is evaluated, how much money they put toward that program, how many full-time employees they have for that, and how many people they serve. It is a pretty basic metric that everyone in the private sector has already, for all of their entities, on what they commit to it. It is one of the things that we are trying to be able to work through the process. Senator McCaskill and I, again, are working on that particular piece. We hope to be able to get that done quickly, as a resource tool for you and for every future person at OMB, especially on the management side of it, to be able to help them with that management. So we just look forward to that cooperation together in the days ahead. Again, that is not designed to be a tool that is a punitive tool by any means. It is designed to just be a resource for everyone to be able to see what is actually happening. Ms. Weichert. Thank you for that input. Senator Lankford. Yes. No big question on that one. Senator Heitkamp, any other questions? Senator Heitkamp. I just want to add something to all of that. I would assume that in these reorganization documents that you will be reviewing a lot of the information that the Chairman has just outlined, is information you should already have. I mean, it is unbelievable to any of us that there is not a master list somewhere, especially within each agency, of what these programs are, how many people are dedicated to these programs, and what is the expenditure kind of looking at a cost benefit. And the other piece of this, because I come out of State government, how does this activity potentially duplicate what States and local entities are doing, and how do we streamline that multiple jurisdictional problem that we consistently have? And so this is a very, very high priority, and it is absolutely essential information for oversight. And that is why I want to hear more about what is happening in reorganization. If you are not getting that information in reorganization, my question would be why not. I mean, why is that not part of the reorganization documents? This is not, unfortunately, the sexiest issue in Congress. It never rises to a level of urgency. We feel a great deal of urgency on these issues, because we have limited resources. We cannot afford to waste any of those resources, moving forward. There is important strategic work that needs to be done by every agency of government, but there are also, I would imagine, a lot of things that are getting done that are tired and old and need to be relooked. And this is a real opportunity, I think, for you, for someone with your skill set coming in. And I just want to make this promise to you. You will find a very open committee, a very interested committee, a very committed committee, especially our Subcommittee on these issues that you are going to look at. And it is very bipartisan and very much set with the same goal of efficiency in government and appropriate levels of government. And so use us. Talk to us if you run into problems with other agencies, because you are going to be the bad cop. Ms. Weichert. Right. Senator Heitkamp. I can tell you, having gone through a period where we consolidated offices and attorneys into the attorneys general (AGs) office, how difficult that was to set one standard for all the attorneys of State government. I mean, everybody was used to having their own attorneys doing their own thing. And we ignore efficiencies when we allow turf to be the issue and not efficiency. So you are going to have to be a bad cop, but you may occasionally need some backup. And I think what we are telling you is we are here, and we are here to listen, and when you run into problems it is important to bring it back to our Committee and let our staffs know, especially. Ms. Weichert. I really appreciate that. Senator Heitkamp. Good luck, Margaret, and we look forward to working with you into the future, and hope for your speedy confirmation because your role, albeit, not a roomful of interested lookers-on, but we are interested. And so, that is 2 out of 100 who really care about what you do, and that is pretty good. Ms. Weichert. My kind of people. Senator Lankford. Yes, that is good. So what Senator Heitkamp is saying is when you get stuck in some process, release the redheads on them, and we will go see if we cannot help shake the trees. Ms. Weichert. My grandmother was a redhead. Senator Heitkamp. We live up to our reputation, you know. Senator Lankford. So we will be glad to be able to help with that. Senator Heitkamp. Slow to get there, but once we do, it can be serious. Ms. Weichert. Thank you both. I appreciate it. Senator Lankford. Ms. Weichert, I really appreciate you being here, for taking this task on. It is a long process to go through a nomination. I have yet to talk to a single person in the nomination process, for any task, that says, ``This is such a pleasant process.'' It is miserable as you go through, as you have total strangers going through every aspect of your life, sitting at a long table all alone, and answering questions, then waiting on the mercy of the Senate process to be able to go through the nomination, to actually do the work that you want to do. So let me just say thank you for going through the process. Let me also remind you that through your vast experience, you were in many different places, making quite an impact for a short period of time. I am sure you have looked back at some of these places and said, ``I wish while I was there I would have done this, because I had been there a shorter time than I thought.'' Whatever the window is that you are going to be here, whether it is 3 years or 7 years, it is going to be a window. And so I would only encourage you, make the most of the time that you have, because our Nation desperately needs someone handling management of the Management and Budget, and it is one of the most important entities that no one has ever heard of, but it makes a significant difference to us. So please lead in the management area. We will need that good leadership in the days ahead. And for Andrew and James--do not mind, Andrew, if I am little more biased to the James than the Andrew here, because my first name is James as well--but for both of you, thank you for being here, and I hope this is a good civics lesson for you as well. And happy birthday. Glad that you are here, for both of you to be able to be here to be a part of it, and I hope it is not too painful. I can only imagine watching my child sitting on the stand and going through all the fun of it. That would not be as much fun as you would think it would be. So thank you for being here and being a part of it. Let me just make a quick closing statement as well. The nominee has made financial disclosures, provided responses to biographical and pre-hearing questions submitted by the Committee. Without objection, this information will be made a part of the hearing record,\1\ with the exception of the financial data, which is on file and available for public inspection in the Committee offices. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ The information of Ms. Weichert appears in the Appendix on page 29. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The hearing record will remain open until 12 p.m. tomorrow, December 15, 2017, for the submission of statements and questions for the record. Thank you again for being here and being a part of this process. With that, this hearing is adjourned. [Whereupon, at 10:59 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] A P P E N D I X ---------- [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]