[House Hearing, 115 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
SIXTY YEARS OF NASA LEADERSHIP
IN HUMAN SPACE EXPLORATION:
PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON SPACE
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 26, 2018
__________
Serial No. 115-74
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov
__________
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COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
HON. LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas, Chair
FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
DANA ROHRABACHER, California ZOE LOFGREN, California
MO BROOKS, Alabama DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois
RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
BILL POSEY, Florida AMI BERA, California
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut
RANDY K. WEBER, Texas MARC A. VEASEY, Texas
STEPHEN KNIGHT, California DONALD S. BEYER, JR., Virginia
BRIAN BABIN, Texas JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia JERRY McNERNEY, California
RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado
GARY PALMER, Alabama PAUL TONKO, New York
DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida BILL FOSTER, Illinois
JIM BANKS, Indiana MARK TAKANO, California
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona COLLEEN HANABUSA, Hawaii
ROGER W. MARSHALL, Kansas CHARLIE CRIST, Florida
NEAL P. DUNN, Florida
CLAY HIGGINS, Louisiana
RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina
DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona
------
Subcommittee on Space
HON. BRIAN BABIN, Texas, Chair
DANA ROHRABACHER, California AMI BERA, California, Ranking
FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma Member
MO BROOKS, Alabama ZOE LOFGREN, California
RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois DONALD S. BEYER, JR., Virginia
BILL POSEY, Florida MARC A. VEASEY, Texas
STEPHEN KNIGHT, California DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois
BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado
RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana CHARLIE CRIST, Florida
DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida BILL FOSTER, Illinois
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
NEAL P. DUNN, Florida
CLAY HIGGINS, Louisiana
LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas
C O N T E N T S
September 26, 2018
Page
Witness List..................................................... 2
Hearing Charter.................................................. 3
Opening Statements
Statement by Representative Brian Babin, Chairman, Subcommittee
on Space, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S.
House of Representatives....................................... 4
Written Statement............................................ 6
Statement by Representative Ami Bera, Minority Ranking Member,
Subcommittee on Space, Committee on Science, Space, and
Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...................... 8
Written Statement............................................ 10
Statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Ranking
Member, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House
of Representatives............................................. 12
Written Statement............................................ 13
Statement by Representative Lamar Smith, Chairman, Committee on
Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.. 14
Written Statement............................................ 16
Witnesses:
Mr. William Gerstenmaier, Associate Administrator, Human
Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate, NASA
Oral Statement............................................... 19
Written Statement............................................ 22
Mr. Mark Geyer, Director, Johnson Space Center, NASA
Oral Statement............................................... 31
Written Statement............................................ 34
Ms. Jody Singer, Director, Marshall Space Flight Center, NASA
Oral Statement............................................... 35
Written Statement............................................ 37
Mr. Robert Cabana, Director, John F. Kennedy Space Center, NASA
Oral Statement............................................... 39
Written Statement............................................ 41
Discussion....................................................... 42
Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Mr. William Gerstenmaier, Associate Administrator, Human
Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate, NASA........... 58
Mr. Mark Geyer, Director, Johnson Space Center, NASA............. 73
Ms. Jody Singer, Director, Marshall Space Flight Center, NASA.... 77
Mr. Robert Cabana, Director, John F. Kennedy Space Center, NASA.. 84
Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record
Document submitted by NASA....................................... 92
SIXTY YEARS OF NASA LEADERSHIP
IN HUMAN SPACE EXPLORATION:
PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE
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WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2018
House of Representatives,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
Washington, D.C.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2:11 p.m., in
Room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Brian
Babin [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
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Chairman Babin. Good afternoon. The Subcommittee on Space
will now come to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare
recesses of the Subcommittee at any time.
Welcome to today's hearing titled, ``60 Years of NASA
Leadership in Human Space Exploration: Past, Present, and
Future.'' I'll recognize myself for 5 minutes for an opening
statement.
The 36th Congressional District of Texas is home to the
Johnson Space Center, a source of pride for all Texans.
Representing my constituents and JSC has been one of the
proudest and most exciting experiences during my Congressional
tenure. I am honored to have the privilege of serving as the
Chairman of the Space House Subcommittee as well. This role has
shown me just how vital NASA is to our Nation.
Sixty years of outstanding achievements by NASA have served
to lay the foundation for even more incredible feats over the
next 60 years. Every single one of these remarkable
accomplishments would not have occurred had it not been for the
amazing individuals who have made up the NASA team over the
years. The unique capabilities and experience of the workforce
at each of NASA's centers, three of which are represented here
today, were very critical in helping NASA accomplish such
audacious goals. To accomplish remarkable feats in the future,
our NASA centers, workforce, and industry must be healthy and
vibrant.
One of the first bills signed into law this Congressional
session was the 2017 NASA Transition Authorization Act, which
directed NASA to provide a Human Exploration Roadmap. Although
that report arrived a little later than originally planned, it
is finally here.
The new National Space Exploration Campaign laid out in the
report not only charts a bold course for American human space
exploration in the years and decades to come, it also provides
an opportunity for JSC to continue serving a central role in
exploration, as the expertise in Houston is critical to taking
our astronauts beyond low-Earth orbit. As I said in my July 25
column in the Houston Chronicle, the next time any American
sets foot on the Moon or Mars, I want to again ensure that the
first word from the surface is ``Houston.'' To meet these new
goals, we need to build upon and cultivate the invaluable and
unique capabilities of each center and to utilize their
irreplaceable workforce, which is a competitive asset for our
Nation.
Following the passage of the 2017 NASA authorization, I
introduced H.R. 5503, the 2018 NASA Authorization Act. This
bill reaffirms JSC's leadership role in human spaceflight
operations and consolidates NASA's systems and integration work
on space suits, providing greater efficiencies, preserving the
industrial base, and keeping JSC's engineering and space
operations capabilities ``front and center.''
Just this morning, I introduced the Leading Human
Spaceflight Act to provide further Congressional direction to
NASA. This bill reaffirms JSC's leadership role as the home of
American human spaceflight, and this legislation also
recognizes that, based on their historical role and extensive
expertise and capabilities, Johnson Space Center is the logical
center to serve a lead role in program management, systems
engineering, program integration, and operations for NASA's
human space exploration program, particularly those outlined in
the Human Space Exploration Campaign.
As I've said before, the ISS is the crown jewel of
America's human spaceflight program. Leadership in LEO returns
tremendous economic benefits of space exploration to Earth. My
bill promotes policy that will lead to a permanent and
continuous U.S. human presence in LEO and authorizes NASA to
operate the ISS until 2030, or until we have demonstrated a
sustainable lower-cost alternative. At the same time, NASA is
directed to start work with the private sector in developing
the commercial capabilities to meet America's future needs in
low-Earth orbit.
And while I've talked at length about JSC this afternoon,
space exploration is a team effort, and I am very, very proud
of the work done at all of our NASA centers. We must ensure
that we learn from the past to prevent the detrimental gaps in
prior transitions and protect our most important asset--the
people--the irreplaceable workforce that have brought us this
far and will take us into the next 60 years of space
exploration.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Babin follows:]
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Chairman Babin. And speaking of the invaluable workforce, I
understand that NASA's Flight Director class of 2018 is in the
audience today. I just shook hands with all of them, I believe.
These new Flight Directors have begun their training on flight
control and vehicle systems, operational leadership, and
training and risk management, and they aim to complete their
training in 2019 and join an elite group of less than 100
Flight Directors who will lead America in our future human
spaceflight missions. We welcome you today and thank you for
your service.
I want to thank the witnesses. I'm sorry I was running
late. I didn't get a chance to come in the room in there and
get to shake your hands. We had to vote, and I rushed in as
quickly as I could, but I want to thank you for--each and every
one of you for being here, and I look forward to your
testimony.
Let me introduce--what do we have? Oh, I now recognize the
Ranking Member. I don't have that page. I'm sorry. Sorry about
that----
Mr. Bera. Don't worry.
Chairman Babin. --Ranking Member. I now recognize the
Ranking Member, the gentleman from California, a good friend,
for an opening statement.
Mr. Bera. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
calling this hearing on 60 years of NASA leadership in human
space exploration, past, present, and future. I've said this
often in this Committee when I think about the past, having
grown up in Downey, California, which was the home of Rockwell
International at that time and in the midst of the Apollo
program, just the excitement of the late '60s and early '70s.
In many ways that led to my interest in science. And while I
didn't become a NASA astronaut, I did go to medical school and
become a doctor.
And I think for a generation of kids, it led to kids going
into engineering, kids going into the sciences and really
captured our imagination. So, you know, the past and when we
think about NASA, it is one of the iconic brands that has
accomplished a lot, but it also in a sense of patriotism, it's
one of the things that we're most proud about in the last 50
years.
It's also--when I--we think about the present, it's not
that often we get four senior-level NASA Administrators and the
folks that are really on the forefront here, so thank you to
the witnesses for being here and the work that you do and the
pride that you give us as Americans.
When we think about the future and we think about our NASA
centers--and I think that's something that the Chairman and I
and the full committee have thought about. We really have to
start giving NASA and our whole space program a roadmap, a
strategic plan. We can't change that strategic plan from
Administration to Administration, particularly if we're setting
a goal--and my colleague Mr. Perlmutter from Colorado is not
here, but he'd say well, the goal is to get to Mars by 2033.
Well, if we are setting that goal, again, we've got to give
NASA that roadmap and give the men and women and our commercial
industries that roadmap so we can move forward with that. That
was one of the things that made us very successful in the lunar
mission was it didn't matter if it was a Democratic
Administration or Republican Administration. We set a goal, we
set our minds to it, we put our ingenuity into it, and we got
there. And I think that's certainly my hope is Congress working
with the Administration does start to lay out what that roadmap
looks like.
With that I'd be interested as we start hearing from the
witnesses within our centers, how can the centers be a
cornerstone of that sustainability and how we move forward? In
addition, what are the challenges that we might face as we look
at those future missions, whether those are an aging workforce,
if there's a skills gap, et cetera, and what are some things
that we should be focusing in on as we look at the question of
the future, and where should we focus as Congress?
And then what are some of the barriers in terms of funding
and predictability, et cetera, because, again, if the goal is
to go to Mars by 2033, we don't know how we're going to get
there. We didn't know how we were going to get to the Moon, but
let's set that challenge and then let's put our shoulders into
it and our ingenuity into it and then let's go meet that
challenge.
So, again, thank all of you for your service and, you know,
making this country proud. And again, I look forward to the
testimony. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bera follows:]
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Chairman Babin. Thank you. I now recognize the Ranking
Member of the full Committee for a statement, the gentlewoman
from Texas.
Ms. Johnson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon and welcome to all of our NASA witnesses.
It's really good to see all of you here from NASA.
In concert with our international, academic, and commercial
partners, NASA and the Nation are closer than we have been in
decades to launching the world's largest heavy-lift rocket,
sending crew beyond the Earth's neighborhood, launching humans
to the International Space Station from domestic soil, and
developing a shared vision on how to get humans to the surface
of Mars. This is an exciting time in our nation's space
history, and NASA and its workforce are planning an important
role in bringing these dreams to reality.
So I'd like to take a moment to thank all of you from the
NASA Centers and the Directors of the workforce that you
represent, and the work that you do every day to achieve
America's goal.
Last Friday, NASA transmitted the National Space
Exploration Campaign report in response to direction in the
NASA Transition Authorization Act of 2017. I'm pleased that we
have finally received this report, and I look forward, Mr.
Chairman, to a vigorous discussion of the report's contents.
The report was to provide the necessary plans to enable a human
mission to Mars, a national goal enshrined in law.
I also look forward to continuing our discussion of the
proposed International Space Station transition. If Congress
decides to end direct financial support for the Space Station
at some point during the next decade, we will need a well-
thought-out transition in place. A repeat of the negative
experience that followed the end of the Shuttle program would
not be in the best interest, and nor would it be consistent
with the goal of a sustainable exploration program.
And, Mr. Chairman, before closing, I want to say that it is
important to recognize that today's space program is not the
government program that existed 60 years ago. The expanding
number of space actors, both government and non-government,
provide increased capabilities that NASA can leverage in
meeting our space exploration goals. But it is equally
important to recognize that, as NASA is doing with the
International Space Station, we need NASA to provide the
leadership required for a successful long-term collaborative
partnership to send humans to Mars.
I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having this hearing, and I
hope that we'll follow a sensible course. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Johnson follows:]
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Chairman Babin. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.
I now recognize the Chairman of the full Committee, the
gentleman from Texas, Mr. Smith.
Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The recently released National Space Exploration Campaign
report shows we are truly in an exciting time for our Nation
and NASA.
Our witnesses today include the head of NASA's human
spaceflight programs and the Directors of three NASA centers
who carry out major human spaceflight responsibilities.
Together, they are responsible for implementing and carrying
out much of this campaign, and we are fortunate to have them
with us.
With clear Congressional direction, strong White House
leadership, and NASA's tremendous expertise, we have all the
resources available to make significant progress in human space
exploration. I'm pleased that NASA has delivered a Human
Exploration Roadmap, as required by the 2017 NASA Transition
Authorization Act. The National Space Exploration Campaign lays
out a bold and achievable plan for human exploration that
includes low-Earth orbit, the Moon, Mars, and beyond. The
report also specifies key critical decision points for future
human space exploration. By laying out an open architecture
with key decision points, off ramps, and deadlines, the
campaign demonstrates resilience, constancy, and
sustainability. We cannot always predict which ambitious
projects will succeed or what future missions may discover, but
this campaign builds in opportunities to capitalize on
successes while mitigating misfortunes.
I believe this report also clarifies the Administration's
policy on the International Space Station and its future.
Clearly, NASA and the Administration do not intend to abandon
America's presence in low-Earth orbit. This campaign lays out
some of the first details about how the United States can
preserve its leadership in low-Earth orbit, while extending its
reach outward to the Moon, Mars, and beyond.
At the same time, I note that Subcommittee Chairman Babin
has introduced the Leading Human Spaceflight Act, which builds
on the ISS Transition Report and the ISS policy laid out in the
National Space Exploration Campaign report and provides
forward-leaning Congressional leadership as we move into the
next phase of low-Earth orbit utilization, and I want to thank
the Chairman of the Subcommittee for introducing that
legislation.
I am sure that Mr. Gerstenmaier will agree that all of
NASA's centers play an important and vital role in our Nation's
space program. Each center is an incredible technological asset
and engine of economic development. The goals and tasks laid
out in the National Space Exploration Campaign will provide
many opportunities for each center to bring their unique
capabilities to bear. Three of those centers will be
represented here today to tell us how they intend to contribute
to this campaign and what it means for their workforces and
their communities.
As we near the end of this Congress, I cannot tell you how
pleased I am with our progress in space over the last six
years. We are on the verge of one of the most ambitious eras in
space that this country has ever seen. I hope the testimony we
hear today will shed additional light on these exciting times.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I'll yield back.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Smith follows:]
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Chairman Babin. Thank you. I appreciate you, Mr. Chairman.
Now, I'd like to recognize the gentleman from Florida for
an opening statement, Mr. Posey.
Mr. Posey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
holding this hearing.
This year, we celebrate the 60th anniversary of the
National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the world's
premier and most respected space exploration agency and the
only federal agency tasked with space exploration. We've come a
long way since the inspiring words of President Kennedy, who
motivated this country to make and keep a promise to put a man
on the Moon and return him safely to Earth by the end of the
1960s, not because it was easy but because it was hard.
If I were to say, ``Kitty Hawk,'' everyone would
immediately think of the Wright brothers and the first flight
of man. If you say, ``Cape Canaveral'' or ``Kennedy Space
Center,'' most people, in my generation certainly, would say in
return, ``Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Space Shuttle.'' Our nation
is so very proud of the men and women at our space center who
continue the noble work of our space program. They know and we
know that space exploration is demanding work and that they
will meet any of the challenges, however bold that they may be
in the future.
As other members have mentioned earlier today, Members of
Congress have been asking NASA for a detailed roadmap to Mars
for several years now, and I've advanced a bipartisan
legislative proposal to return to the Moon and to go onward to
Mars from there. Today, we have bold leadership. The
President's directive, NASA, and the National Space Council are
all preparing the way. America must not fall behind. I look
forward to hearing our witnesses and learning more about the
national space exploration strategy.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Babin. Yes, sir. Thank you.
And now, I'd like to introduce our witnesses today. Mr.
Bill Gerstenmaier, our first witness today, is the Associate
Administrator of the Human Exploration and Operations Mission
Directorate at NASA. He develops the strategic direction for
all aspects of NASA's human exploration of space and provides
programmatic direction for the continued operation and the
utilization of our International Space Station. Mr.
Gerstenmaier began his NASA career in 1977, performing
aeronautical research, and he's managed NASA's human
spaceflight portfolio since 2011. He received a Bachelor of
Science in aeronautical engineering from Purdue University and
a Master of Science in mechanical engineering from the
University of Toledo. Thank you for being here, Mr.
Gerstenmaier.
Our second witness today is Mr. Mark Geyer, Director of
NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, located in my
district. In his role, Mr. Geyer leads a workforce of about
10,000 civil servants and contractor employees. He began his
NASA career in 1990 and later joined the International Space
Station program in 1994. He has served in a variety of roles
there, including Chair of the Space Station Mission Management
Team. Mr. Geyer earned both his Bachelor of Science and Master
of Science degrees in aeronautical and astronautical
engineering from Purdue University in Indiana. Thank you for
being here.
Ms. Jody Singer, our third witness today, Director of
NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama.
Appointed in September of 2018 as the first woman to ever run
Marshall. Ms. Singer manages one of NASA's largest field
installations with nearly 6,000 civil service and contractor
employees and an annual budget of $2.8 billion. During her 32-
year career at NASA, Ms. Singer has held leadership roles in
human spaceflight, technology, and science programs and
projects. Ms. Singer earned a bachelor's degree in industrial
engineering from the University of Alabama. Welcome. Your
football team is just doing fantastic this year.
And last but not least is Mr. Bob Cabana, our final witness
today, Director of NASA's John F. Kennedy Space Center, or KSC,
in Florida. Mr. Cabana manages all NASA facilities and
activities at the spaceport, including the team of civil
service and contractor employees who operate and support
numerous space programs and projects. Mr. Cabana was selected
as an astronaut candidate in 1985, and he served in a number of
leadership positions at the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center
Astronaut Office. He has logged 38 days in space. Mr. Cabana
graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1971 with a bachelor's
degree in mathematics. I welcome you as well, Mr. Cabana.
I now recognize Mr. Gerstenmaier for 5 minutes to present
his testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MR. WILLIAM GERSTENMAIER,
ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR,
HUMAN EXPLORATION AND
OPERATIONS MISSION DIRECTORATE, NASA
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Thank you very much. It's an honor to be
here with this panel and also to represent the men and women of
NASA.
Stopping to reflect on the past, present, and future of
human exploration at NASA on this 60th anniversary is important
and worthy of serious discussion. As we look back on the past,
we must be extremely careful. As we look back, we carry a bias
in the way we--as we know the outcome of the events that
transpired. We also tend to link decisions and outcomes in ways
that may not be correct. We have a natural hindsight bias and
have a tendency to remember only the good things or the
tragedies, and we miss the subtle things that were critical to
success. We miss understanding the difficult decisions that
were made with little data and appear perfect--and appear as
perfect decisions in hindsight. We also discount the role of
luck in some of our outcomes.
I can tell you from my own experience of having written
many design requirements and flight rules in the past and now
hearing the new generation of engineers and designers discuss
the logic for these flight rules and design criteria, their
perception today for the requirements and flight rules does not
match the logic or the environment in which these requirements
were written. We should learn from the past but recognize that
our view of the past is flawed and try not to develop a
strategy based solely on our perception of the past. There are
also new processes and techniques that did not exist in the
past. We need to look for new approaches and develop new ways
of designing systems and building hardware.
The capabilities of others outside of NASA is radically
different than in the past. Both private industry and countries
have the ability to contribute in huge ways that were not
possible in the past.
And looking forward to the future, it's difficult to
predict the exact plan or capability that we need. Space Policy
Directive-1 provides an appropriate solid base for the future.
I'll read from the policy. It says, ``to lead an innovative and
sustainable program of exploration with commercial and
international partners, to enable human expansion across the
solar system, and to bring back to Earth new knowledge and
opportunities. Beginning with missions beyond low-Earth orbit,
the United States will lead the return of humans to the Moon
for long-term exploration and utilization, followed by human
missions to Mars and other destinations.''
This policy is great in that it does not over-specify the
how but describes key considerations, that is, an innovative
and sustainable program with commercial and international
partners and to enable human expansion across the solar system.
The policy even covers the why, to bring back to Earth new
knowledge and opportunities. This is a good policy to build off
of for the future.
Rather than speculate on the future, let's spend a few
moments reflecting on the present. Today, we sit with more
hardware in development for human spaceflight than at any time
in our past. We have two commercial crew transportation systems
nearing completion and ready for--ready to fly crew to the ISS
in the next year: Boeing CST-100 and SpaceX Dragon. We have an
Orion capsule ready for Exploration Mission 1 and the European
Service Module for Orion that has completed assembly in
Germany. The service module will shift to the Kennedy Space
Center for integration with Orion in late October and will
undergo 400 days of integrated testing at KSC in Plum Brook in
Ohio prior to flight.
The flight engines and solid rocket motors and liquid
engines are ready for flight. The Space Launch System flight
hardware is undergoing manufacturing and is planned to ship to
Stennis next June for testing. In the next nine months, there
will be two un-crewed flight tests to the ISS, a pad abort test
for Boeing, a high-altitude abort test for SpaceX, a pad abort
test for the Orion vehicle. Further, the Orion capsule pressure
shell for the first human crewed mission around the Moon, EM-2,
is at KSC beginning integration. This is an amazing time.
Outside of NASA, we should also see the private sector
suborbital flights with Virgin Galactic and Blue Origin next
year.
Lastly, we've had crews in space continuously for 18 years.
The research being done by the crews on ISS is amazing, and the
technology development will allow divisions of Space Policy
Directive-1 to be accomplished. We are likely never to see
another space facility as amazing as the International Space
Station in our lifetimes. These may be the good old days for
the future generation.
We in human spaceflight are often accused of being too
optimistic by review teams and inspectors. I like to think that
we are appropriately optimistic. We must dream big to lead. The
challenge of the lunar landing was huge and required
appropriate optimism. We can do these big things, but there
will always be risks, risks to the lives of our astronauts,
risks to our careers and legacies, risks to schedules and
budgets. We can mitigate some of these obvious risks, but these
risks cannot be truly managed or eliminated. We need to openly
discuss these risks and make sure that they are understood.
These risks are part of enabling human expansion across the
solar system. Appropriate optimism is required to be a leader
and to create the next 60 years of amazing accomplishments.
I look forward to a good hearing. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Gerstenmaier follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Babin. Thank you very much for that testimony.
Now, I recognize Mr. Geyer for 5 minutes to present his
testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MR. MARK GEYER,
DIRECTOR, JOHNSON SPACE CENTER, NASA
Mr. Geyer. Chairman Babin, Ranking Member Bera, thank you,
and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity
to be here today to discuss the ISS and human exploration.
So NASA has an exciting and challenging future, and the
Johnson Space Center stands ready to support the Human
Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate and work in
partnerships with our other NASA human spaceflight centers to
enable that future.
NASA's JSC was established in 1961, and from the Gemini,
Apollo, and Space Shuttle missions to today's International
Space Station and Orion programs, the center has led the
development and operation of historic human spaceflight
programs. JSC's famed mission control center or MCC has been
the operational hub of every American human space mission since
Gemini IV. The MCC manages all activity on board the space
station and will play a pivotal role in commercial crew vehicle
flights flying astronauts to and from the ISS in the near
future. The MCC will direct the flights of Orion when it
launches on top of the Space Launch System that takes humans
beyond low-Earth orbit for the first time since 1972.
JSC is also home to the NASA's Astronaut Corps and is
responsible for training space explorers from the United States
and our space station partner nations. As such, it is the
principal training site for the ISS expedition crews.
JSC also leads NASA's flight-related scientific and medical
research efforts and strives to make revolutionary discoveries
and advances to benefit not only our ability to live and work
in space but all of humankind.
Technologies developed originally for spaceflight have
already found a wide range of applications in medicine, energy,
transportation, agriculture, communications, and electronics.
JSC leads the development of the Orion spacecraft and provides
space craft expertise in support of KSC's Commercial Crew
Program. JSC will lead a high-altitude test flight of Orion
abort system in April of 2019, which will showcase the power
and complexity of this critical system used to enhance crew
safety during ascent. These efforts continue JSC's legacy as
human spacecraft development experts.
The Johnson Space Center also has unique expertise in
extravehicular activity, suit development, and operations. At
JSC we manage EVA execution training integration, as well as
development for the suits, systems, and support equipment. The
United States has performed a total of 252 EVAs, totaling over
1,500 hours, including over 1,000 hours of EVAs during the
assembly and operation of the ISS program.
The Johnson Space Center is a world leader in complex
programmatic and system integration. For example, for more than
20 years we have--JSC has managed the integration, assembly,
and operation of the ISS. The space station is a multinational
microgravity laboratory, continuously occupied since November
of 2000. The ISS has hosted 232 individuals from 18 countries.
An international crew of six people live and work while
traveling at a speed of five miles per second orbiting the
Earth every 90 minutes. Microgravity, along with many other
beneficial environmental conditions, provide a unique research
environment to support bioscience, physical science, remote-
sensing, and technology development projects. Over 2,400
investigations by over 100 countries have been performed in
space station history, and this number increases every week.
JSC has also developed and implemented cutting-edge
partnering strategies. The Commercial Orbital Transportation
Services program, COTS, and the cargo resupply contract
strategy enabled two companies to develop launch vehicles and
spacecraft through public-private partnerships, which now
resupply critical cargo to the ISS. This initiative has shown
the power and the challenges of the strategy which will be
important--an important part of any future sustainable
exploration plan.
Looking forward, the White House Space Policy Directive-1
calls for the NASA Administrator to lead and innovative and
sustainable program of exploration and commercial with--with
commercial and international partners to enable human expansion
across the solar system and bring back to Earth new knowledge
and opportunities. JSC has demonstrated the capability to unite
commercial and international partners to complete bold
missions.
By continuing the use of the ISS as a low-Earth orbit
laboratory to buy down human risk factors presented by space
travel and to develop the technologies that will enable humans
to journey to the Moon and beyond, NASA has already established
the foundation necessary to expand the frontier of human space
exploration. Partnerships with commercial international
partners have already been established to build, operate, and
maintain the ISS and have established a template to follow for
human expansion across the solar system. Knowledge gained on
the space station has already benefited humans on Earth and
points to the future promise of new knowledge and opportunities
from human space exploration.
NASA and JSC look forward to the future of human space
exploration. Commercial companies are currently launching cargo
to the space station from Virginia and Florida. In the very
near future, the tempo of Americans spaceflight will increase
exponentially as commercial companies prepare to launch
American astronauts to the ISS from the United States.
On August 3, 2018, at a ceremony at JSC we named the
astronaut crew of brave men and women who will fly on our first
commercial missions. This milestone was another reminder of
JSC's central role in human space exploration.
As I mentioned before, the Orion and SLS will soon be
flying humans beyond low-Earth orbit. These systems enable
access to the lunar region and will be used in the near term to
assemble and utilize elements of a human outpost around the
Moon.
JSC stands ready to apply its unique capabilities and
complex program management, partnerships, system integration,
operations, spacecraft design, and human health and performance
in partnership with our fellow NASA centers, commercial
partners, international partners as NASA fulfills the
initiatives set forward by the National Space Council and the
White House. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Geyer follows:]
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Chairman Babin. Yes, sir. Thank you for your testimony.
I now recognize Ms. Singer for 5 minutes to present her
testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MS. JODY SINGER,
DIRECTOR, MARSHALL SPACE FLIGHT CENTER, NASA
Ms. Singer. Thank you, Chairman Babin and Members of the
Subcommittee. Thank you for this opportunity to address this
Committee and represent Marshall Space Flight Center where I
began my 32-year NASA career.
I was recently honored to be named Center Director by the
Administrator Jim Bridenstine. It is a privilege to testify
before you with my colleagues here today.
At Marshall we make human deep space exploration possible.
As you know, one of our flagship programs is the Space Launch
System. The Space Launch System is unmatched in its
capabilities and will deliver human-rated spacecraft, habitats,
along with unprecedented science missions to the Moon, to Mars,
and beyond. Our work on SLS builds on nearly 60 years of
leadership in human space exploration.
At Marshall, we have a storied history of expertise in
developing and integrating large, complex, human-rated systems
on behalf of the agency and our country. It started with
Apollo, then expanded to include Skylab, Hubble, Spacelab,
Shuttle, Chandra, and eventually the International Space
Station, or ISS.
Marshall has been essential to the creation and utilization
of the International Space Station, beginning with the
integration of the modules. Node 1 was built in Huntsville with
Marshall supporting the build and delivery of nodes 2 and 3.
The U.S. laboratory was built in the Saturn V test facility in
Huntsville, Alabama. The Marshall team designed and developed
the Environmental Control and Life-Support System called the
ECLSS, which provides water and oxygen for the crew. We're
using what we know about these essential and complex systems so
that we can better enable long-term human exploration into deep
space.
For more than 17 years we have supported the ISS with our
24/7 operations, 365-days-a-year management of science
operations. We have hosted more than 2,300 research
investigations from researchers in 103 countries to date.
We also support the Commercial Crew Program, which will
allow us to launch American astronauts from American soil to
the ISS for the first time since the Shuttle program ended in
2011. In addition to SLS, ISS, and other technology development
activities, we are excited to be working with commercial
partners and other NASA centers on a number of robotic and
human lander development programs, which will return our nation
to the Moon.
We have a long and storied role in our Nation's human
spaceflight program, and we couldn't do it alone. At NASA, we
are driven by partnerships and constantly reminded of the old
saying, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go
far, we go together. Our partnerships with industry, with
academia, and with other government entities are instrumental
to our success. As we look ahead to what it will take to expand
human presence in our solar system, we look forward to continue
to provide our expertise in large integrated human exploration
systems as we partner to develop landers, habitats, transit
systems, and integrated exploration systems as we partner to
develop as we go forward. All of these will be essential
elements for deep space human exploration.
We are preparing for our return to the Moon and to travel
on to Mars as we continue to help the United States lead the
world in exploration and discovery of the unknown. I am excited
to be a part of our Nation's space program, and I'm honored to
be part of a team of experienced and passionate professionals
who are ready to take on any and all challenges that arise as
we aim to push human presence deeper into space than we ever
have before.
Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Singer follows:]
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Chairman Babin. Thank you, Ms. Singer.
I now recognize Mr. Cabana for his 5 minutes of testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MR. ROBERT CABANA,
DIRECTOR, JOHN F. KENNEDY SPACE CENTER, NASA
Mr. Cabana. Thank you for the opportunity to appear today
to discuss KSC's contributions to 60 years of NASA leadership
in human space exploration, past, present, and future.
NASA's John F. Kennedy Space Center is the United States'
preeminent multiuser spaceport for government and commercial
access to space. KSC's rich history dates back to 1962 when it
was first established as a NASA launch operations center, and
from those first steps on the Moon through 30 years of the
Space Shuttle, culminating in the completion of the
International Space Station to the myriad of NASA science
missions, expanding our knowledge of the universe and home
planet, KSC has led the way in innovative, efficient, and cost-
effective spacecraft processing, launch, and recovery.
Today, we continue to lead. Since the last Shuttle mission
in July of 2011, the center has transformed to enable
commercial operations, better utilizing our assets and
strengthening America's space program. By early next year it is
our goal to once again be flying U.S. astronauts to space on an
American rocket from U.S. soil, a direct result of establishing
KSC as a multiuser spaceport.
In 2017, the United States led the world in launches for
the first time since 2003. Of the 29 U.S. launches last year,
12 were from the Kennedy Space Center. I'd like to recognize
the great partnership we have with the 45th Space Wing and the
FAA that helped to enable that.
In addition to the many ground operations going on at KSC,
commercial operations going on at KSC, the Exploration Ground
Systems program is preparing the center to once again enable us
to explore beyond low-Earth orbit with NASA's Space Launch
System and the Orion spacecraft. Recently, the mobile launcher
rolled from the park site out to pad 39B for a fit check and is
now in high bay 3 of the vehicle assembly building, undergoing
verification and validation testing. With this move, we are
essentially complete with the construction of all the
facilities necessary to process and launch the vehicle for
Exploration Mission 1. To support future exploration missions,
we're in the process of procuring a second mobile launcher that
accommodates the exploration upper stage Block 1B version of
the SLS and eliminates a three-year gap between missions.
As we prepare for the launch of SLS and Orion and a return
to the Moon, NASA will soon begin work on the Gateway, a
flexible outpost in cislunar space that will provide access to
anywhere on the Moon and enable sustained exploration of the
lunar surface, expanding our knowledge and proving technologies
needed for eventual trips to Mars and beyond.
The Gateway, a logistics effort, will involve procuring
commercial services via fixed-price contracts for the delivery
of cargo to support science and exploration missions staged
from the Gateway, including human exploration. KSC is
positioned to provide its core area of expertise: commercial
acquisition, contract management, payload processing, ground
processing, and launch integration to support Gateway and
ensure its success.
Five years ago, the KSC team set out to restore our
prominence as the place where astronauts launch to space. With
NASA's desire to stimulate commercial markets, coupled with the
availability of historic space processing and launch assets, we
set an ambitious goal to be the home of five human spaceflight
providers. Today, through commercial crew, exploration ground
systems, and our commercial partners, we're supporting the
development of four human spaceflight providers, and we haven't
given up on the fifth.
We're also launching the agency's science missions through
the Launch Services Program. With five of six planned missions
already successfully completed this year, our multiuser
spaceport is prospering like never before. Truly, the sky is
not the limit at KSC.
Finally, I'd like to recognize the upcoming 20th
anniversary of the first assembly mission of the ISS. On
December 4, 1998, I had the privilege of commanding Endeavour
on that first mission and activating the space station for the
first time and entering it. As we noted in the first log entry
of the ISS, ``From small beginnings, great things come,'' and
the ISS has more than exceeded its expectation as a world-class
microgravity lab, a superb engineering testbed, as a
partnership--international partnership model for the future and
as a destination that made commercial crew and cargo programs a
reality.
Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I'd like to
thank you for your time and attention this afternoon, but more
importantly, I'd like to thank you for your support of
America's space program, and I look forward to your questions.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Cabana follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Babin. Thank you very much, Mr. Cabana.
Now, the Chair recognizes himself for 5 minutes for
questions.
This is going to be for everyone. Considering the current
discussion about ISS transition, what is NASA doing to prevent
another detrimental capability gap as we have experienced in
the past, most recently with the retirement of the Space
Shuttle? And I'll start with you, Mr. Gerstenmaier.
Mr. Gerstenmaier. You've seen our transition plan for ISS,
and we treat that very seriously. And we're not just doing a
plan, but we issued some study contracts to 12 companies, and
those companies are going to give us business plans and market
analysis for how they could potentially use the space station
or they could use low-Earth orbit to provide some capability
for us in the future. So we're going to see what industry is
interested in, what they can provide, and therefore, we'll
build a smooth transition so we don't have an abrupt end of one
program and then start another program. We need to make sure
there's a continuity of human spaceflight where there--we
continue this human presence in low-Earth orbit, and NASA
becomes one of many users of low-Earth orbit.
Chairman Babin. Thank you very much. Mr. Geyer?
Mr. Geyer. Yes, I think if we described the incredible
things the space station is providing today and I think a great
conversation about we really don't want the gap in low-Earth
orbit, so as Bill described where we're putting together a plan
that looks logically at how we might build other capabilities
so NASA is one of many users and put together a well-thought-
through plan.
I think also the key is, as we go into exploration further
into the solar system, how do we take the lessons from ISS into
those other endeavors like the Gateway and so forth and keep
those partnerships strong. All those are very important parts
to consider.
Chairman Babin. All right. Thank you. And, Ms. Singer?
Ms. Singer. Yes, sir. I looked as far as the exploration
program and how we're going, that that is setting out a roadmap
that will help us. I went through the Shuttle, and I went
through the--after flying out the Shuttle in 2011 and saw the
gap. I think one of the things that we are looking forward to
is learning off of lessons learned, and also going forward, one
of the things that we're doing is there's a lot on our plate.
The future is very bright. We have to deliver on our missions
today and make sure that we invest in our people and making
sure that we form partnerships that will make us a sustainable
program. So I think all of that focus will keep us strong and
going.
Chairman Babin. Excellent. Mr. Cabana?
Mr. Cabana. Thank you. Mr. Gerstenmaier laid out the plan
well, and I think it's critical that we have a follow-on for
the International Space Station, that we do have a plan for
low-Earth orbit. Even as we explore beyond our home planet, I
believe that there is a place for operations in Earth orbit,
and it's critical that we have a destination for our commercial
partners, both crew and cargo, to have a viable commercial base
there, so we're working hard to ensure through our partnerships
that we can commercialize the ISS and that we have a future
beyond it in low-Earth orbit.
Chairman Babin. Thank you very much. And then for Mr.
Gerstenmaier, during the early development phases of a program,
program management from headquarters is understandable.
However, once acquisitions begin, do you believe that program
management should be done from the centers where the workforce
and expertise exist to perform these roles for NASA?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Yes, definitely. And we're in the process
of laying that out and figuring out the right time to
transition activities from kind of putting together the
strategy at headquarters and then passing it down to the
centers for actual implementation and doing the day-to-day
management of the project.
Chairman Babin. Right.
Mr. Gerstenmaier. But I think it's important in the
beginning headquarters kind of sets those bigger-picture goals
of where the partnerships ought to be, new ways of doing
business, et cetera. Then we could hand that off, and the
execution is much better done at the centers.
Chairman Babin. Absolutely. Thank you. And then for Mr.
Geyer, in your new role as JSC Center Director, how are you
leveraging the decades of experience your team has serving as
the lead center for human spaceflight program management,
systems engineering, program integration, and operations?
Mr. Geyer. So what we do, first of all, is we participate
with the studies that are done on the future and the
exploration campaign is a good example of that. We provide
inputs and expertise as the strategy is being put together,
again, bringing what we've seen and what we've learned in the
past, and then we support the conversations of--as we decide to
roll those programs out, making sure that JSC is poised and has
the folks ready to do those jobs.
Chairman Babin. Thank you. And what is JSC doing to
encourage commercial partnerships with the center?
Mr. Geyer. So a couple things, of course, we have the big
contracts that are obvious, the commercial cargo is a great
example of a technique we've used to buy services, and we've
seen what that's done to actually create the capability. We
participate with Kennedy on the Commercial Crew Program, which
now has taken the next step in actually flying our crews, so
it's a bigger, more challenging task. And then we also have--
even within the center on tasks that are infrastructure things
like training crews, we put into our contracts the capability
for those contractors to actually bring in other customers to
reduce our fixed cost and help us do our job for less money.
Chairman Babin. I know I'm out of time, but I just want to
get something in. What is the current workforce level, both
civil servant and contractor, directly supporting ISS at your
center?
Mr. Geyer. I'll--we'll get back to you on that exact
number.
Chairman Babin. Okay. And then do you have a rough estimate
on the numbers at the other centers supporting ISS, or maybe I
should ask the other two real quick, Ms. Singer and Mr. Cabana?
Ms. Singer. I don't have the exact number in front of me.
I'll have to take that for the record----
Chairman Babin. Okay.
Ms. Singer. --and get back to you.
Chairman Babin. Okay.
Mr. Cabana. I'll take it for the record also, Mr.
Chairman----
Chairman Babin. All right, great.
Mr. Cabana. --and get you the exact number.
Chairman Babin. Okay. Well, I'll yield back. Thank you very
much.
Now, the gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. Johnson.
Ms. Johnson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Well, Ms. Singer and Mr. Cabana and Mr. Geyer, the Space
Exploration Campaign is anticipated to involve partnerships
with industry, academia, and international entities. What is
the most important role of NASA and the centers in a multi-
partner Space Exploration Campaign?
Mr. Geyer. Well, I think, first of all, it's NASA's job to
provide the vision and the strategy and then to set the
acquisition plan, exactly how are we going to accomplish these
goals and how do we decide how to partner, who's going to do
what jobs. That's a big part that NASA provides.
Mr. Cabana. Yes, I think I'd say it even more simply than
that. NASA leads. We provide the direction, we coordinate, we
ensure that we work together as one team, and we set the course
with our requirements and how we go about doing it.
Ms. Singer. And I would add to both of their statements and
say a critical part of it is NASA working together. We work
together, centers to centers, working with the agency, as well
as with our partners, to make sure we deliver on what the
Nation needs, and that includes delivering on our commitments,
executing our missions, making sure that we have the right
infrastructure and people in place with the right training, as
well as forward thinking to make sure we have a readiness.
We're ready to be able to execute the missions put in front of
us. And then obviously cultivating partnerships, having
partners, and the ability to be more flexible, agile, and
having the ability to execute is critical.
Ms. Johnson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield
back.
Chairman Babin. Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much.
I now recognize the gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Lucas.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And, Mr. Gerstenmaier, my colleagues have commented on the
early space program, the Apollo program, that went on in my
youth of course that instilled in a whole generation of
Americans a different perspective for looking at the stars and
drove people into the field of math and science. And of course
we have a renewed interest now with all the spectacular things
going on in space exploration in this country.
Could you expand for a moment on how the National Space
Exploration Campaign could potentially have a similar effect on
our culture as a society regarding an interest in and
fascination with space and science in general?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. I think what's interesting is there's a
couple pieces. First of all, we shouldn't discount the space
station and what it can do today to inspire the next
generation. I'm often amazed when I go talk to college students
how much they're impressed by Station, and they relate to me
things that I would think would only be attributable back to
Apollo in the other days. So I think we need to celebrate
what's going on with Station and what our crews are doing there
every day. You know, continually operating a station is not
easy and moving forward.
As we talk about things like the Gateway around the Moon,
what's intriguing about that is we're building a piece of
infrastructure in space that can be used as a reusable piece by
multiple folks, so what's exciting about the new vision is it's
not a single mission. It's not a single ``achieve this.'' It
has actually put in place an open architecture that can be used
by the private sector, used by international partners. It can
enable reusable spacecraft.
So on the--in the Apollo program, we had a service module,
a command module that was used once and thrown away. The
Gateway can be that reusable service command module that's sits
in space to be a destination for any spacecraft going to space
with open standards. They can dock there. The lunar landing
module will be reusable. And the neat thing is all this orbital
mechanics, electric propulsion are all new technologies, new
analysis, and we need the students today to start looking at
new, creative ways to utilize space. So I think if we can put
the challenge out there in a way every person in the United
States, every person in the world can figure out a way that
they can contribute to this space program that is now open, and
it's the right role for government to put that piece of first
infrastructure in place that just enables the world to innovate
and be creative in utilizing space.
Mr. Lucas. Oh, absolutely. And speaking of Gateway, could
you visit with us for just a moment in whatever regard you can
about the--and I know it's early in the process--the
conversations that are going on with the potential commercial
partners? I assume there is interest out there. I assume they
are warming up and cranking up the designs to utilize the
opportunities. You're getting that kind of feedback, correct?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Yes, definitely. With domestic providers
we have several companies working on next-step broad-agency-
announcement activities where there's actually modules
available at some of the centers that you can go see where
we're starting to look at what the U.S. habitation module will
look like on Gateway. So that activity is moving forward. We're
soliciting input from many of the companies, and we're also
receiving a lot of interest from the science community. We've
done one workshop in Colorado. The interest in doing science
around the Moon and using the unique orbit of the Gateway was
really amazing. We've also--there was a European activity also
looking at science on Gateway, so, so far, there's been very
strong support from industry. We're involving them in many ways
to see how they can contribute in ways that help build this
piece of infrastructure that is multiuse and multi-decades that
can be used.
Mr. Lucas. Absolutely. And speaking of that, I think I'd
like to turn now to all three of the Center Directors. Can you
visit for just a moment about the unique capacities that each
of your particular centers have in regards to NASA's future and
for that matter the National Space Exploration Campaign, the
unique qualities that each center brings, just a little bit if
you wouldn't mind? That's not a trick question, I promise.
Mr. Cabana. So, absolutely, sir. I think, you know, you
look at the Kennedy Space Center, this is where we process the
vehicles. This is where we do the launch integration. This is
where we launch to space. And there's no other place like it in
the United States or in the world in my opinion. I think we do
it right, and I look forward to processing and launching the
vehicles that are going to be supporting Gateway.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you.
Ms. Singer. From a Marshall Space Flight Center standpoint,
I look at Marshall's heritage and expertise that we have. We
have development and integration experience in large and
complex human systems, have been demonstrated in Apollo,
Shuttle, and SLS. We have--deep space transportation systems
will be critical for ascent and descent. We look to advanced
manufacturing and additive manufacturing not only to be able to
build our components but to build in space. Also the
lifesupport systems that we see, we partner with other centers
to make sure that we have the life-support system for survival,
and also when I look about large science instruments, being
able to understand the science and the world around us.
So I see as our participation from a center perspective and
as a group we all have a lot to offer in robotic and human
exploration, and I think spaceflight in our future is very
bright. And I think we'll be looking as to whether we'll be
traveling to and through or living and working in space or
understanding our world. I think we all can be significant
contributors.
Mr. Geyer. Yes, great. And so, yes, we're excited about the
exploration campaign, and I think there's parts of that that
we've mentioned. Certainly the astronauts are at JSC. We do
operations, flight operations. We do human health and
performance, learning how the body behaves in space, spacecraft
design, and then really integrating complex not just
engineering but also programmatic relationships like space
station has both commercial--and ISS will be a big part I think
about the sustainability of the new plan. So we're excited to
work with our partners and get started on this new endeavor.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I just note to our
panelists that those of us on this side of the table are
constantly reminded we have to deliver our message, what, 17
times to get it to stick, so repetitiveness is the nature of
bringing the general population along with us.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Babin. Well said.
Mr. Perlmutter. It takes us 21.
Chairman Babin. Thank you, Mr. Perlmutter.
I now recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Lamb.
Mr. Lamb. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Gerstenmaier, what is the basis for the statement in
the report that this strategy does not require significant
funding increases or does not assume them? Could you talk a
little bit about that?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Sure. What we're doing is we're trying to
leverage the capability that already exists in the commercial
industry. So, for example, the first element of Gateway is the
power propulsion element. It will provide communications and
electric propulsion for the Gateway spacecraft around the Moon.
We noticed that the commercial satellite buses that are in
existence today flying around with commercial satellites are
very similar to what we need for this application, so we're
going to leverage off of what's available in the commercial
satellite industry, offer them the chance to add high-powered
solar rays and high-powered electric propulsion to their
spacecraft, and we think they'll be very interested in that
activity. So therefore, we don't need to do a complete new
redesign from the beginning. We can take advantage of the
spacecraft that's flying on orbit today with 15 years of
reliability and demonstrated performance, and that allows us to
keep the cost fairly low, at least for that first acquisition.
We're looking at the same thing for all the elements. We're
looking to see what's available from the private sector, what
we can do ourselves, where we can contribute to--and we spread
the development out across several years such that we don't
need a huge influx of funding on an annual basis to make this
activity happen.
Mr. Lamb. Okay. And are these mostly American commercial
partners that you're talking about?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Yes.
Mr. Lamb. Okay.
Mr. Gerstenmaier. And again, you can see--I think in the
report it talks about conceptually what we think it's
international as well. If we want to be a leader, we're
bringing in some international partners into the Gateway as
well, and we've distributed some of the components. We chose
areas that we think are uniquely important to us that we want
to have in the United States where we want to continue to keep
U.S. leadership, so that was kind of strategically defined how
we picked our partners and put our partnerships together.
Mr. Lamb. And does the lack of a need for significant
funding increases, does that hold true only up to the landing
of humans on the Moon or would it include, you know, further
missions like the mission to Mars or do you know?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Again, I think we've kind of laid out the
first framework to that point. We also assume reusability, so,
for example, the--like I described earlier, the lunar landing
module, we see that the--there's an ascent module that would be
reusable and would not have to be replaced. The Gateway, as I
described earlier, is a reusable piece. We think that helps
keep costs down. It depends how many unique pieces we need
going forward. It also depends how much interest there is in
low-Earth orbit. We think we need to keep some presence in low-
Earth orbit and will the commercial sector be able to generate
revenues so NASA is one of many customers. So there's lots of
what-ifs as we go out there.
I think we do need more than a flatline budget. We need
some increase each year at least consistent with inflation,
maybe slightly above, but it's that moderate increase, and
that's what that statement tries to capture in the report.
Mr. Lamb. Thank you. Can we talk a little bit about the use
of private lunar landers specifically? And this could be for
Mr. Gerstenmaier or anyone on the panel who's familiar with it.
But there's a company, for example, in Pittsburgh near where
I'm from called Astrobotic that's planning on launching its
first mission in 2020. This to me seems like a success story
along the lines of what you're talking about where we are
having private commercial companies do Moon missions for the
first time really in history. Is that--on that specific point
of having them do lunar landers, is that a place where you've
seen a lot of success, and what opportunities does that create
I guess is my question.
Mr. Gerstenmaier. It--I think as the other Center Directors
talked a little bit about, one of the unique roles of NASA is
we have a lot of internal expertise, so we supported a lot of
these smaller companies transferring some of our knowledge to
them, so we helped many of the providers that you've described
and talked about. And we're going to do a services contract
through the Science Mission Directorate that's a sister
directorate to mine that will look at commercial landed
services on the Moon, and these will be small landers, less
than 100 kilograms or so kind of landed mass, and the company
that you described is one of the participants potentially in
that activity.
So we're off doing that solicitation now. That will let us
see what the commercial sector can provide. Then once we
understand that, when we do the more highly reliable, more
complex human class landers which are, you know, up to 1,000
kilograms landed or 2,000, 3,000 kilograms landed on the Moon,
we can learn from those early activities to see where we need
to do extra analysis, extra research to move forward. So we
have kind of a phased program of small-class landers, mid-class
landers, and then human-class landers, so those are three
integrated programs that allow us to explore and see what
commercial industry can provide, what their skills are, and
then we only dial-in what we uniquely need to add to what the
commercial sector can do to give us a highly reliable human
transportation landing capability in the future.
Mr. Lamb. Thank you very much, sir. Mr. Chairman, I yield
back.
Chairman Babin. Yes, sir, thank you.
I now recognize the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Abraham.
Mr. Abraham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Before I get to my questions, I certainly want to recognize
the role that Louisiana plays in our space missions. New
Orleans is home to the Michoud Assembly Facility where NASA is
building the Space Launch System that Ms. Singer referenced and
the Orion spacecraft. And I know everyone here realizes how
critical this facility and the entire federal campus, including
the NASA Business Development Center and the USDA National
Finance Center, are to the federal government and to our
mission to explore space.
And for us in Louisiana it's a source of pride. It's a
major job provider, so we certainly just appreciate Michoud
being there. And I want to acknowledge the fine work being done
there to our country and to our space exploration.
I was looking at the bios of you on the panel. It amazes me
on the Space Committee, either the full committee or the
subcommittee, the intellect and the knowledge base. And you
guys and ladies on that panel, you give us mere mortals a bad
rep. I mean, it's like, you know, it doesn't take a rocket
scientist--well you guys are the rocket scientists that we are
compared to. So, you know, I do have a little bit of chip on my
shoulder when my wife says, ``it doesn't take a rocket
scientist to change a lightbulb.''
Mr. Cabana, is there anything you haven't done, sir? I
mean, I'm looking at your resume and I'm just blown away at the
accomplishments, as anyone on the table. So just thanks for
being here and, you know, thanks for taking care of us on the
space and exploration frontier. We certainly want to continue
to lead as a country, as a nation, globally. We want to
certainly command space in every form and fashion.
And the only question I have--and I guess it'll be to all
of you and if you can just go down the line--I want to kind of
pony on my good friend Mr. Lucas where we left off. What
Congressional action do we need to mitigate the feast or famine
that we've had in the past, better leverage the resources that
you have available, the workforces? What do we need to do as a
Congress to make those centers even better than you guys are?
Mr. Gerstenmaier, I'll start with you and just go down the
line.
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Sure. I think it's important that we have
consistency of purpose, right, where we kind of keep our goals
and objectives at a higher level, and then that allows us to
continue to keep moving progress and move forward. It's hard
when we start a program and then we have to stop a program and
then start another program. So if we get too specific a
direction, it's difficult for us to implement under that. But I
think good steady guidance, good financial support, other
pieces are there----
Mr. Abraham. So no C.R.'s if we can help it.
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Yes, that would be nice if that happens.
But we are prepared for those. But we can--but again, I think
just consistency would be very important.
I think we also see this as really the ultimate team sport.
You know, all of us can contribute in our own way, and each one
of us has our own unique strengths. And by pulling all of us
together with our diverse backgrounds, we can do amazing
things. And I think we need Congressional support, we need
Administration support as well, and--but we call you part of
the spaceflight team.
Mr. Abraham. Well, we appreciate that.
Mr. Geyer?
Mr. Geyer. Yes, thank you. And--so I think it's great and
appropriate to be held accountable for the work that we do, and
I appreciate the opportunity to respond to that and talk about
the work that we are doing and on the transition report
especially about putting together a well-thought-out and
logical plan, giving--having the opportunity to do that and
show the rationale for the future I would say is really, really
important.
And as Bill said, it's working together to make these come
together. I would say I just want to echo what you said about
Orion. You know, we found that the welding expertise in that
location was world-class, and they did a terrific job on Orion
and will continue to do so.
Mr. Abraham. Right.
Mr. Geyer. Thanks.
Mr. Abraham. Ms. Singer, any comments on that?
Ms. Singer. Yes, I would second that from--Michoud Assembly
Facility is very near and dear to my heart. I've worked
external tank for over ten years, and it is the----
Mr. Abraham. You're welcome to come over to the LSU side--
you understand that--from the Alabama side.
Ms. Singer. And I would tell you, too, thank you so much
for you all's bipartisan support. It makes a difference. When
we have continuity of funding and continuous pressure, as Mark
said, it's great for us to be held accountable, but it does
make a difference in how we recruit and be able to get the next
generation of folks that want to work on space and space
program and exploration. Having that inspiration makes a big
difference, too.
Mr. Abraham. Mr. Cabana?
Mr. Cabana. I think, as Mr. Gerstenmaier said, consistency
in our direction, and we have that consistency in our funding.
One of the things that--the program that we played out, it's
sustainable and it's evolvable. It's something that doesn't
need to be started over. It is the right path forward to allow
us to get back in cislunar space, to get to the Moon and
eventually on to Mars as we evolve, and having that continuity
is going to be really important.
I think continuing with the authorities that we have,
especially looking at the Kennedy Space Center, what we've been
able to do to commercialize the assets that we have through the
Space Act Agreements, enhanced use lease, and so on is
extremely important. And I know that our human resources folks
are also looking at human resources initiatives that can help
us better recruit and retain the workforce that we have, items
such as direct hiring authority, so there are a number of
things that can help us and we're looking at that.
And I would also say, sir, that Senator Glenn was 77 when
he flew his last flight, and I'm still holding out hope.
Mr. Abraham. I think you could qualify for the physical
right now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Babin. You're welcome. Thank you.
I now recognize the gentleman from Colorado, Mr.
Perlmutter.
Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you.
I know I'm a broken record. I know you've seen this before,
but I will put it up there one more time because this is a goal
I think we all want to achieve, which is to get our astronauts
to Mars at a time when it's relatively safer for them because
of a shorter trip, less radiation, those kinds of things.
And so, Mr. Gerstenmaier, you and I have had this
conversation on occasion, and so I'd just like to kind of talk
about where we are because I think in one of the bills that we
passed last year we asked for report about a roadmap to Mars,
and we have yet to see that. So I know you're not surprised by
my question, and I'd just like to see where you think we are
and when we're going to see the report.
And I guess there's a third piece based on what I've just
read. Have you all decided to make it a backseat to the Moon?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Okay. So I think, again, the report's
coming. The first report we needed to get done was the
Exploration Campaign, which we were late on but you got it last
Friday. And I--and Mars is not a backseat to the Moon. What we
see is we need to do the activities around the Moon to really
prepare us to go to Mars. So this Gateway spacecraft we talk
about around the Moon, it can be moved in different orbits
around the Moon. It also could be the basis for a Mars
spacecraft. The ascent vehicle that we will use for the lunar
activity, we're going to try to size that ascent vehicle that
comes off the Moon that takes the crews from the surface of the
Moon to Gateway. That vehicle will be sized towards a Mars-
class lander. So we're using the region around the Moon to
build the skills to build the understanding, the technology
that allows us to go to Mars.
I don't think we're ready to go to Mars directly today. We
need someplace--we need to use the space station first to build
long-duration life-support systems. Those will start flying as
early as this fall. There are some scheduled to fly in
November, and that'll be really good on Station to see those
systems come online. Then we go to the Moon, press the skills a
little bit harder, and then we're ready to go to Mars. So I see
the Moon----
Mr. Perlmutter. So----
Mr. Gerstenmaier. --as an enabler for Mars.
Mr. Perlmutter. Good. And that--I--really was what I wanted
to hear. I guess what I'd like to see in the report on the
roadmap to Mars is more of a connection between what this
steppingstone is in my opinion in going to the Moon and then
how it relates and supports and--because I told you I'm
agnostic on how you get to the--to Mars, just get there by
2033. So I felt like there needs to be more of a connection
between your activities and efforts returning to the Moon and
developing things there.
To change the subject just a little bit, this Gateway
thing, I did have a constituent of mine who is very involved in
sort of space exploration, a guy named Dr. Zubrin, who you
know, who had some reservations about the Gateway sort of
approach. Does that give somebody in the private arena, you
know, a monopoly on leases or something like that? He was much
more erudite in how he expressed his concern than I just have,
but are you familiar with that kind of a critique?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. We've heard some of that. One key thing
is we're trying to develop--we call them interoperable
standards. And what those are is we have an international
docking standard now, which we've said--it doesn't tell you how
to build a docking device, but if you can build to the
standard, you can dock any spacecraft to another spacecraft.
And we're using that now on our new vehicles.
We're also going to set seven other standards, atmospheric
standards, power standards, data standards, rendezvous
proximity operations system standards, and those will allow any
spacecraft to operate with other spacecraft, so then that
prevents this monopoly that you described or one of the
concerns.
Mr. Perlmutter. Okay.
Mr. Gerstenmaier. So by having an open architecture that
anyone could build to, they build to these standards, it
doesn't tell them how to build the hardware, they can be
interoperable with our spacecraft moving forward. And we think
that's a very powerful tool that lets us now keep everyone
participating in these activities so there's not a one unique
spacecraft, one unique design owned by one company. It's
effectively built to an open standard.
Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. And, Ms. Singer, I'll end with
you. So SLS, Orion, Marshall obviously plays a very big role
there. Are you comfortable that NASA is paying attention to
getting to Mars?
Ms. Singer. Yes, sir. I see that as a top focus of--part of
our ability to be sustainable and operating in deep space. The
Space Launch System is the enabling workhorse that has to be
there to be able not only to support Gateway but beyond Gateway
and above. So, yes, we are getting the attention.
Mr. Perlmutter. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield
back.
Chairman Babin. Yes, sir. Thank you.
I now recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Dunn.
Mr. Dunn. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Gerstenmaier, as we ramp up the number of launches to
Gateway, can you share with us your best estimate of the cost
per launch? And if you need to stratify that by payload size or
launch vehicle, please feel free.
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Yes, if you want exact numbers----
Mr. Dunn. No, no, just a--you know, back-of-an-envelope
type thing.
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Yes, if you take a look at our budget,
we're looking at probably, I don't know, $3 billion or so per
year, but then it's balanced across with SLS being launched
about once per year roughly as you see in the report, but then
that's augmented by commercial launches for other things like
supply, fuels, other pieces, so there are several commercial
launches there.
So the SLS Orion system, when crew needs to be there or
large components need to be there, you uniquely use the heavy-
lift government system. When the smaller things can come, they
can come on other pieces. So, for example, the power propulsion
element, it'll be launched on a commercial launch vehicle. So
we spread that across all of them so we can get the most
efficient launch system to take whatever unique cargo is
needed.
Mr. Dunn. So I was under the impression some of the
commercial systems also are heavy launch now. My----
Mr. Gerstenmaier. They're still on the books in terms of
redesign. There is no system that is as far along in
manufacture and development as the SLS. It's----
Mr. Dunn. It might very well happen, though, over the
course of the next four, five years----
Mr. Gerstenmaier. Sure, and if it does, then we'll figure
out a way we can accommodate those in our architecture so our
architecture isn't dependent upon one launch system.
Mr. Dunn. So Mr. Lucas asked earlier a question that really
piqued my interest, which is how do you leverage the
commercial--all the interested parties of the commercial side
to get them really involved in the Gateway and the lunar
explorations, which are in preparation for deep space
exploration?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. You know, I think, again, if we can show
what we need from a NASA perspective to do this and show the
vision, then I think industry can start figuring out ways to
contribute and move forward in that vision. We're trying to do
that very much in low-Earth orbit. We're starting to see now
some companies that have not done research in space, now have
interest in space, which is encouraging. So I think the key
thing is we can show the vision, we can show the open
architecture, then it's up to the companies to figure out how
they can contribute and work with us in that area.
We can also share our expertise with them. You know, where
we have some unique manufacturing or processing techniques and
things, we can share those with industry as well to help them.
Mr. Dunn. I certainly have been approached by some
industries like that, and I know we had here during testimony
one day a gentleman was talking about how to do the fuel
resupply on the Moon based on commodities he could get from the
Moon, hydrogen and whatnot, so that--I think that's possible.
Also for Mr. Gerstenmaier, can you confirm that NASA does
not have plans to abandon American human presence in low-Earth
orbit even if the details are still unclear how that--how you--
what you're going to do?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. No, our intent is to have a continuous
presence in low-Earth orbit, and we're working--and our
transition plan lays out the principles for that activity and
we're moving forward to try to implement that.
Mr. Dunn. I thank you very much. Thank you, gentlemen, and
also your flight controllers for joining us today. It's always
fascinating to see NASA come in and talk to us. Thank you.
Chairman Babin. Thank you very much.
I now recognize the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Higgins.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Gentlemen, madam, thank you for appearing before us today.
I'm the seventh of eight children. I have six sisters, and they
join many ladies across the country for the last several
decades--I would hear them occasionally say, ``If we can send
one man to the Moon, why can't we send them all?''
And I join my colleagues in the goal to reach Mars by 2033.
The problem could perhaps be that much of America would like to
send Congress to Mars right now.
Human space exploration of course is incredibly important
for the future of our world. I support it; this Committee
supports it. The policies have remained relatively consistent
across current and prior Administrations but minute differences
concerning the planned level of lunar activity prior to going
to Mars has hindered term planning as we sit right now.
Before I ask my question, I'd like to thank Ms. Singer
specifically for being here today. The Michoud Assembly
Facility managed by the Marshall Space Flight Center has
consistently been an impressive and vitally important facility
for the entire State of Louisiana. I've visited the facility,
it's an incredible experience with some of the most
professional men and women that I've ever met in my life. So we
certainly support the mission that we are joined here on this
Committee.
My question lends to the bipartisan nature of planning. I
certainly understand that different Administrations at the
executive level, and as the balance of power shifts in
Congress, will enact certain policy changes, but do you feel
that--my directors present--do you feel that if we're able to
establish a bipartisan agreement on long-term planning for
human space exploration, would that not be beneficial to the
space centers you operate, the mission, and potentially reduce
the long-run cost and just increase overall efficiency from a
planning perspective? I'd like for my directors to respond to
that question, please.
Mr. Geyer. Yes, I'll start. I think you said it very well.
A long--having a long-term plan allows us to plan, right? It
allows us to, as Jody said, look forward to the workforce that
we're going to need and make those choices so that when those
different milestones happen, we have the folks we need to do
the job. And so I think that's a really important part of the
future.
Ms. Singer. And yes, I would say that sustained and
continuity in human spaceflight and exploration, which includes
the bipartisan support, does help us because it gives us the
ability to have a vision not only for the near term but for the
future to come. It also helps us to be able to inspire folks.
It helps us, economic base, as well as to inspire the next
generation of folks that want to work on it. So yes, definitely
having that gives us a lot of vision and excitement to be able
to execute.
Mr. Higgins. Yes, ma'am.
Mr. Cabana. And I'll agree, sir. Having the consistency of
a clearly laid out vision for the future and our implementation
of it, the path that we're on being--having that sustainable
and consistent is critical to our success.
Mr. Gerstenmaier. And I would add also that it's a really
good thing. You've just got to be careful we don't get too
specific in the plan because then that causes us to stop and
start. So the trick is to get it at the right level that is
sustainable for a long duration and it doesn't get too specific
because then that drives us to make short-term decisions, which
I think are problematic to us.
Mr. Higgins. Yes, sir. And of course it's important that we
communicate the crucial nature of the job that we do together
from this Committee through Congress and through the
Administration so that we can have a truly bipartisan plan that
looks into the future that can transcend politics and shifts of
power and changes of political affiliation at the executive
branch. And if there's a committee that can make that happen,
Mr. Chairman, I believe this is the one.
I thank you all for being here. I yield back.
Chairman Babin. Thank you very much.
And now, I'd like to recognize the gentleman from Alabama,
Mr. Brooks.
Mr. Brooks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Gerstenmaier, the controversial load-and-go procedure
appears to expose NASA astronauts to unnecessary additional
risk. In that vein I've got three questions. Is load-and-go an
additional launch risk, question number one. Question number
two: is load-and-go necessary because of performance challenges
in getting to the International Space Station? And then
question number three, if it's a cost-saving measure, is the
added risk to astronauts appropriate to help save money?
Mr. Gerstenmaier. So, again, what I think we need to do--
and we're still in the process of reviewing the exact procedure
of where we put the propellant on versus when we have crew get
in the vehicle, it's a function of the spacecraft design
because you need to get the propellant in at the right time.
The propellant needs to be at the right temperatures and
pressures at the time of ignition of the engines, et cetera, so
there's a balance of when that occurs. We're going to find the
right time to put the crew on these vehicles that puts them in
at the most--or the safest opportune time for the particular
spacecraft that we're designing, and so we're going through
that process right now. And I think we need to be careful how
we do that and when we pick the time.
In the case of SpaceX, it's interesting. If we go with the
standard procedure they've laid out for us today, then we'll
get to see--they're roughly flying sometimes 10 to 16 launches
per year. We'll get to see the actual loading of that vehicle
exactly like it's going to be when the crew is on board 16
times per year. We think that's a significant safety advantage
to see that operation occur repetitively 16 times per year. If
we required a unique loading operation just for our crew when
they're there, then you get a one-time shot per year of how you
load the vehicle with crew there, and that may actually be more
risky for you than it is taking the more standard procedure. So
that's kind of what our logic is behind this. We get a chance
to see it multiple times to make sure that it is really
reliable. The folks that are doing the loading, the software
that does the loading, it gets exercised multiple times per
year, and that gives us experience with that software, it's up-
to-date, it's not a unique, one-of-a-kind thing. So we need to
be careful we don't drive the particular loading sequence for
this particular design to unique aspect that actually exposes
us to more risk. And that's what the teams are doing now.
They're going through that detailed discussion to figure out
the right way to move forward with this with SpaceX.
Mr. Brooks. Thank you, Mr. Gerstenmaier.
Director Singer, the Chairman couldn't say it but I will.
Roll Tide. Welcome to the Hill as Marshall Space Flight
Center's Director, and congratulations. Being from the
Tennessee Valley, you've made us all proud.
Now, the Marshall Space Flight Center's first Director, Dr.
Wernher von Braun, began his tenure in 1960 with a vision of
taking humanity to the Moon. This year, as we celebrate NASA's
60th anniversary, we are once again embarking on a mission to
the Moon with the intent of proving the technologies that are
needed for our next celestial achievement, taking humanity to
Mars. As the Marshall Space Flight Center's 14th Center
Director, what is your vision for Marshall, and what technical
roles do you foresee as Marshall writes its future history?
Ms. Singer. Thank you so much for that question, and thank
you for the nice recognition.
I would say that from my vision as the Center Director of
Marshall Space Flight Center, it's probably very similar to the
vision that many Center Directors have. It's to--definitely to
deliver on our commitments and our missions and making sure
that the assignments that we do have, we're able to execute
them and making sure that our infrastructure is in place to do
that.
I think also a key part of that is strengthening our
workforce. We have a very strong workforce that I'm very proud
of, but investment in our workforce and making sure they remain
strong and making sure they have the adequate training and
resources and our ability to hire a diverse workforce is going
to be critical and--as we execute the new missions.
Also, a third part of that is the criticality of our
partners. I know that many of the things that we do today gives
us increased flexibility, agility, and effectiveness, and I
think the education of our workforce and working with our
partners to make sure that we continue that partnership and our
partnerships with other centers are very critical.
So I see that as my top three themes. I've talked about our
expertise that we have at Marshall Space Flight Center, our
ability to develop and integrate large systems, our deep space
transportation activities, ascent and descent, the significant
adventures that we're having in advanced manufacturing not only
on SLS today but on engine parts that we're seeing that we're
flying, and the ability to build in space, our ECLSS that we
work on to help with life that not only has to happen on
International Space Station but going forward in deep space, a
lot of that is what will be key contributors.
So to me that is what makes our future so bright and why
I'm so excited about being at Marshall Space Flight Center
because I think we have an opportunity to not only work on
traveling to and through space. I think we have an ability to
work on living and working in space, as well as understanding
our world with our science. So I look forward to a bright
future, and I think it's a wonderful opportunity to be at NASA.
Mr. Brooks. Thank you, Ms. Singer.
And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Babin. Yes, sir. Thank you very much for those
great questions.
I just want to--I think this wraps us up. I don't see any
more Democrats here, and he was the last Republican, but I just
want to thank each and every one of you. I'm proud of each one
of your centers and the leadership that you've given us and
also, Mr. Gerstenmaier, your leadership at where you are and
very proud to have you folks here telling us about our space
program because I've never felt more optimistic and more
excited about what's happening.
And so I want to thank each one of you. The record will
remain open for two weeks for additional comments and written
questions from Members. And with that, if I get my gavel out
here, we will adjourn. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 3:40 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
Appendix I
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Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
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Appendix II
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Additional Material for the Record
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