[House Hearing, 115 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
U.S. POLICY TOWARD TIBET: ACCESS, RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, AND HUMAN RIGHTS
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
DECEMBER 6, 2017
__________
Serial No. 115-102
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida BRAD SHERMAN, California
DANA ROHRABACHER, California GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
TED POE, Texas KAREN BASS, California
DARRELL E. ISSA, California WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island
MO BROOKS, Alabama AMI BERA, California
PAUL COOK, California LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
RON DeSANTIS, Florida JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
TED S. YOHO, Florida BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois DINA TITUS, Nevada
LEE M. ZELDIN, New York NORMA J. TORRES, California
DANIEL M. DONOVAN, Jr., New York BRADLEY SCOTT SCHNEIDER, Illinois
F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, Jr., THOMAS R. SUOZZI, New York
Wisconsin ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
ANN WAGNER, Missouri TED LIEU, California
BRIAN J. MAST, Florida
FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
BRIAN K. FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
THOMAS A. GARRETT, Jr., Virginia
JOHN R. CURTIS, UtahAs of
12:44 pm 11/29/17 deg.
Amy Porter, Chief of Staff Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director
Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific
TED S. YOHO, Florida, Chairman
DANA ROHRABACHER, California BRAD SHERMAN, California
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio AMI BERA, California
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania DINA TITUS, Nevada
MO BROOKS, Alabama GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
ANN WAGNER, Missouri
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
Mr. Richard Gere, chair of the Board of Directors, International
Campaign for Tibet............................................. 10
Mr. Tenzin Tethong, director of the Tibetan Service, Radio Free
Asia........................................................... 20
Mr. Carl Gershman, president, National Endowment for Democracy... 25
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
The Honorable Ted S. Yoho, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Florida, and chairman, Subcommittee on Asia and the
Pacific: Prepared statement.................................... 3
Mr. Richard Gere: Prepared statement............................. 14
Mr. Tenzin Tethong: Prepared statement........................... 22
Mr. Carl Gershman: Prepared statement............................ 27
APPENDIX
Hearing notice................................................... 46
Hearing minutes.................................................. 47
The Honorable Eliot L. Engel, a Representative in Congress from
the State of New York: Prepared statement...................... 48
The Honorable Gerald E. Connolly, a Representative in Congress
from the Commonwealth of Virginia: Prepared statement.......... 50
Questions for the record submitted by the Honorable Dina Titus, a
Representative in Congress from the State of Nevada............ 52
U.S. POLICY TOWARD TIBET: ACCESS, RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, AND HUMAN RIGHTS
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WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 6, 2017
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:40 p.m., in
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Ted Yoho
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Yoho. The subcommittee will come to order. Members
present will be permitted to submit written statements to be
included in the official hearing record.
Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for
5 calendar days to allow statements, questions, and extraneous
material for the record, subject to length limitations in the
rules.
As a friendly reminder, I would like to remind audience
members that disruption of committee proceedings is against the
law and will not be tolerated. Although wearing themed shirts
while seated in the hearing room is permissible, holding up
signs during the proceedings is not. Any disruptions will
result in suspension of the proceedings until Capitol Police
can restore order.
With that, I would like to say good afternoon and thank you
to my colleagues and the panel for joining us here today for
this discussion of Tibet. It is a turbulent time in
international relations, particularly in the Asia-Pacific
region where security concerns dominate policy discussions
daily. In this environment, some important issues are getting
far too little attention, especially on the international
stage, and the status of Tibet is one of these issues. It is an
important moment to shine a light on the events in Tibet,
especially with significant legislation on this topic pending
before this committee.
Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, the 14th Dalai Lama, and
other Tibetan leaders in exile convened a first of its kind
conference in October, the Five-Fifty Forum. The objective was
to establish a 5-year plan for negotiations with China on
Tibet's future or, if negotiations fail, a plan for 50 more
years of resistance. The context of these discussions is a
period of increased uncertainty about Tibet's future. The Dalai
Lama has advocated a compromise, called the Middle Way, seeking
autonomy within China for the people of Tibet rather than
independence from China.
But the Tibetan people and the world are increasingly
forced to consider what will happen after the Dalai Lama's
leadership. It is still unknown how the Dalai Lama will choose
to determine his succession and reincarnation, but China,
having kidnapped the Panchen Lama as a child in 1995 and put an
imposter in his place, may attempt to appoint a fraudulent
successor. A result that is seen as illegitimate or intolerable
by the people of Tibet could cause a wave of protest and
resistance, ushering in new heights of oppression.
Human rights and personal freedoms in Tibet are already in
a poor and worsening state. According to the State Department's
2016 Human Rights Report, the Government of China engages in
the severe repression of Tibet's unique religious, cultural,
and linguistic heritage by, among other means, strictly
curtailing the civil rights of the Tibetan population,
including the freedoms of speech, religion, association,
assembly, and movement. The authorities have used heavy-handed
and violent tactics to maintain control in Tibet, especially in
response to unrest, including extrajudicial killings, torture,
arbitrary arrests, extrajudicial detentions, and house arrests.
And Tibet remains extremely isolated. The flow of information
in and out of Tibet is tightly restricted. Tibetans are
prevented from obtaining passports and moving freely, and
foreigners, especially journalists and officials, are
frequently denied access. I hope that today the panel can
provide the subcommittee with suggestions for policy Congress
can pursue to push back against these abuses that we see too
often coming out of China.
Fortunately, there are two pieces of legislation pending
before the subcommittee that aim to do just that, and I look
forward to the witnesses and their impressions of these bills.
Representative McGovern's Reciprocal Access to Tibet Act of
2017 would promote access to Tibetan areas by denying U.S.
visas to Chinese Government officials who are involved in
restricting access to Tibet. And Chairman Emeritus Ros-
Lehtinen's H. Con. Resolution 89 provides comprehensive
reassertion of U.S. policies toward Tibet, underscoring the
importance of the Tibetan Policy Act and clarifying the sense
of Congress on a number of important issues relating to Tibet.
In addition to these measures, I am looking forward to
hearing suggestions for other actions the subcommittee may take
to advance human rights, religious freedom, and access in
Tibet. Once again, I would like to thank our panel for joining
us today and for your patience while we had to go down and do
our constitutional duty of voting.
And, without objection, the witnesses' written statements
will be entered into the hearing record.
And I now turn to my ranking member and friend for any
remarks he may have, Mr. Sherman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Yoho follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
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Mr. Sherman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding these
hearings on this important issue of American policy and human
rights. Ten years ago, in October 2007, Congress awarded His
Holiness the Dalai Lama the Congressional Gold Medal in
recognition of his outstanding contributions to peace,
nonviolence, human rights, and religious understanding.
Unfortunately, in the decade since, China's suppression of
Tibet has continued and intensified. China has not held
discussions about Tibet's status with the Dalai Lama's
representatives since January 2010. In 2015, China stated that
there is no prospect of granting much autonomy to Tibet. This
is regrettable because, for most of history, Tibet was either
highly autonomous or completely independent. China has declared
that it alone would make the decisions on selecting the next
Dalai Lama. What an outrageous interference in religion and
freedom. China has encouraged the migration of Han Chinese in
Tibetan areas. China continues its political crackdown on
Tibet.
The State Department's 2016 Report on Human Rights
Practices notes that the Chinese Government engaged in severe
repression of Tibet's unique religious, cultural, and
linguistic heritage. China has clamped down on the flow of
information into and about Tibet. It imposed restrictive
regulations on religious practices, censored Buddhist
literature and information, and demolished Tibetan Buddhist
sites, and placed monasteries under its control, and has
imprisoned Tibetan prisoners of conscience.
One way in which Tibet has been illustrated for us is
exemplified by Mr. Gere here, and that was the fine movie that
was made. I am concerned that Chinese control and influence
over media would make creating another movie difficult or
impossible. Chinese interests are strongly involved in a large
proportion of the movie screens in the United States. And, of
course, China has this policy of only admitting a certain
number of movies into China so they can punish any studio that
they don't like in ways that North Korea could--well beyond
anything North Korea tried to do to Sony. So to think that we
allow China to exercise that kind of control while giving them
free access to our markets is something Congress needs to
review.
China has increased its military presence in Tibet and has
built roads, airfields, and infrastructure that could be used
to transport and support Chinese military forces repressing
people in Tibet. This not only impacts the Tibetan population
but also affects India. We are trying to build a strategic
relationship and partnership with India, and we have got to
commend India for providing refuge to over 90,000 Tibetans,
including the Dalai Lama himself, who have had to flee Chinese
repression.
Congress must act quickly to counter China's repressive
tactics and policies toward Tibet. This is important for our
own standing as leaders in the world's human rights. There are
two bills before us this year. I would recommend that everyone
on this subcommittee and on the full committee cosponsor both
of them, the Reciprocal Access to Tibet Act of 2017, and
Expressing the Sense of Congress with Respect to United States
Policy Toward Tibet.
Looking at the second bill first, H. Con. Res. 89,
introduced by our chairman along with myself, Ileana Ros-
Lehtinen, and Ranking Member Engel, asked the administration to
make Tibet an important issue in U.S.-China relations to fully
implement the Tibetan Policy Act of 2002 and to encourage China
to engage in dialogue with the Dalai Lama or his
representatives leading to a negotiated agreement with respect
to Tibet.
The second bill is H.R. 1872, introduced by Congressman
McGovern, which would deny Chinese Government officials access
to the United States if they are responsible for restricting
American journalists and American diplomats from traveling to
Tibet.
In 2008, when China's military crackdown on Tibetans
occurred, I was pleased that this House voted overwhelmingly
for House Resolution 1077, calling upon the Chinese Government
to end its crackdown in Tibet and to begin substantive dialogue
with the people and the leaders of Tibet. It is disheartening
to see that, in the 9 years since, China's suppression of Tibet
has increased.
And a few months ago, in June, I had the pleasure of
talking to Mr. Gere about Tibet. I look forward to hearing from
him, Mr. Gershman, and Mr. Tethong on how Congress can support
the Tibetan people at this important time.
And I yield back.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you, sir.
Now we will go to opening statements by members.
Mr. Chabot?
Mr. Chabot. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this
important hearing and very timely.
China's decades-long oppression of Tibet is a constant
example of the PRC's total disregard for religious freedom and
human decency. Just this past weekend, another Tibetan monk set
himself on fire to protest China's ongoing tyranny. China has
systematically marginalized Tibet for over 50 years now, and I
want to commend Mr. Gere for being a leader on this issue for
such a long time, having met and heard him testify a number of
times here.
And thank you for sticking with it over the years. We
really appreciate that.
China has reneged on their commitment to allow Tibet to
operate as an autonomous region and failed to guarantee its
people their personal and religious freedoms. Unfortunately,
China's crackdown on Tibetans has consistently increased in
recent years resulting in numerous violent clashes and the
death of many innocent people. I am deeply concerned that
China's growing global assertiveness puts the future of Tibet
and the Tibetan people at an even greater risk. I believe that
Tibet's struggle for autonomy and religious freedom could be in
real jeopardy. That is why my colleagues and I must continue to
demonstrate to the global community that the human rights of
the Tibetan people must be respected by China.
U.S. officials should implore China to do everything we
possibly can to engage in meaningful and constructive dialogue
with the Dalai Lama to reach a long-term solution that results
in enduring peace. So I look forward to the panel and yield
back.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you, sir.
Next, we will go to Ms. Ros-Lehtinen, chairman emeritus,
from Florida.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Chairman Yoho, and
thank you to Ranking Member--we have got a private joke going
here--stop it, Ted--Sherman for this meeting.
Tibet is an issue that is near and dear to my heart, and I
want to thank both you and Ranking Member Sherman for allowing
me to join your subcommittee and hear from our distinguished
panelists. It has been a privilege to work closely on these
issues with both Carl and Richard. I like to name drop, you
know, first-name basis.
I want to thank Mr. Gere for taking the time to be with us
today and to wait so long--but we had votes--and then have to
hear from us yet again. But you have been a staunch defender
and advocate, a tireless worker on behalf of the Tibetan
people.
A little over 10 years ago, I authored a bill alongside our
departed pal, Tom Lantos--and I want to thank him for his work
on this--which eventually became law, that recognized His
Holiness the Dalai Lama with our highest honor, the
Congressional Gold Medal, showing the world that we stand with
the people of Tibet in their struggle for freedom. But in the
years since, Mr. Chairman, I have been increasingly worried
that Tibet has been pushed to the periphery of U.S. foreign
policy. Beijing's repressive policies in Tibet have only been
getting worse with additional travel restrictions against
Tibetans and U.S. citizens, restrictive regulations on
religious affairs, and censorship of Buddhist literature and
information. We are also seeing Beijing demolish Tibetan
Buddhist sites, jailing more Tibetan prisoners of conscience,
and declaring that it, Beijing, has the decisionmaking power
over the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama.
Sadly, instead of supporting the people of Tibet and
standing up to Beijing's policy, U.S. administration after U.S.
administration has held back being fearful of upsetting the
Chinese, and this is simply unacceptable. We must stand strong
in our commitment to the people of Tibet, and that is why, last
month, I was proud to introduce House Concurrent Resolution 89,
alongside Ranking Member Engel, Chairman Yoho, Ranking Member
Sherman, and Steve Chabot, and our bill outlines a path forward
on U.S. policy on Tibet. And I urge my colleagues to cosponsor
this important bipartisan resolution. It details certain
priorities, including pressing Beijing to enter into a dialogue
with the Dalai Lama that leads to a negotiated agreement on
Tibet, and it publicly calls for the immediate release of
political and religious prisoners. It calls for the appointment
of a Special Coordinator for Tibetan Issues and at the State
Department who would report directly to the Secretary of State.
It calls for the revocation of appropriate privileges of any
Chinese officials responsible for impeding access of U.S.
citizens to Tibet, an issue that I am also proud to be working
on as a cosponsor of my good friend Jim McGovern and his bill,
the Reciprocal Access to Tibet Act, H.R. 1872. I urge my
colleagues to cosponsor this important legislation as well. All
of the Chinese regime's actions that I mentioned are not only
immoral and unjust, but they violate the Tibetan people's most
basic human rights, and they are threatening the stability of a
crucial area for U.S. interest. Our own U.S. national security
interests dictate that we oppose China's increasingly
repressive policies on Tibet and that we work toward a
negotiated solution and start making the treatment of the
people of Tibet an important factor in our relations with
Beijing. So thank you, Chairman Yoho. Thank you, Ranking Member
Sherman, for taking the time. And I look forward to hearing
from our distinguished panelists.
I yield back. Thank you sir.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you for your comments.
And I would like to ask if there is no objection to
allowing Mr. McGovern, the author of the Reciprocal Access to
Tibet Act of 2017, to say a few words.
Hearing no objection, Mr. McGovern.
Mr. McGovern. Whew, thank you.
I want to thank Chairman Yoho and Ranking Member Sherman
for convening this hearing, and I want to thank my colleagues
up here. And I hope the Chinese Government is listening because
in a Congress where there is lots that divides Democrats and
Republicans, this is an issue that brings us together. We are
all speaking with one voice here today. We are all saying that
Tibet is important, that human rights in Tibet is important,
and that we believe our Government must do more. And I think
this is a particularly important time because the human rights
situation in Tibet is dire and deteriorating. And I gotta be
honest with you: I am frustrated that our Government hasn't
done more over the years. I say that not only in reference to
the Trump administration; I, quite frankly, was frustrated
while President Obama was in office that, while some symbolic
steps were taken, in the end, Tibet's status remained the same.
And so, whether it was Democratic or Republican
administrations, we haven't done nearly enough to raise this
issue.
There was no progress--there has been no progress in
restarting the Tibet and Chinese dialogue or advancing Tibetan
autonomy. Control over the practice of Buddhism tightened. And
the use of the Tibetan language has become more restrictive.
And too many people found the situation so unbearable that they
took to the unimaginable decision to self-immolate. As things
have worsened in recent years, there have been no consequences
for Chinese authorities, none.
All of us love and respect His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and
that is as it should be. Our relationship with him and our
solidarity helped keep the Tibet issue in the public eye. But
that is not enough. The Dalai Lama is 82 years old, and he is
getting tired. For that reason he recently decided to turn over
his international engagements to emissaries. I believe the
Dalai Lama could play a very constructive role in negotiating a
better future for the Tibetan people, but China clearly doesn't
see it that way. China is waiting him out and counting on his
eventual departure to remove Tibet from the international
agenda.
So we need to move now, and we need some leverage. And that
is why, earlier this year, along with a bipartisan group of
members, I introduced H.R. 1872, the Reciprocal Access to Tibet
Act. As has been mentioned, this bill imposes consequences for
just one aspect of China's bad behavior: Its restrictions on
travel to areas in China where ethnic Tibetans live. Chinese
diplomats have unrestrictive access to anywhere in the United
States. U.S. citizens and U.S. journalists and U.S. diplomats
ought to have the same. And the current status of things, quite
frankly, is unacceptable. If China wants its citizens and
officials to travel freely in the United States, Americans must
be able to travel freely in China, including Tibet. But
allowing travel to Tibet is only one step China needs to take,
and there are others. Most, especially China, should permit His
Holiness the Dalai Lama to return to Tibet for a visit if he so
desires. He has that right, and he must have that opportunity
before it is too late.
On our side, we need to insist that the State Department
name a Special Coordinator for Tibetan Issues. This appointment
is a statutory requirement. To make progress on Tibet issues,
we need someone in charge. We in Congress should also insist
that the administration make use of the global Magnitsky Act to
sanction Chinese officials responsible for torture and
extrajudicial killings of Tibetans, like the revered monk
Tenzin Delek Rinpoche. It has been nearly 2\1/2\ years since he
died in a Chinese prison, and still there is no accountability
for his death. I say to all of you as my colleagues: Time may
be running out for the Tibetan people. All those who say they
believe in the rights of the Tibetans must move beyond words to
concrete actions. We have been talking the talk for years. We
now need to walk the walk. If human rights on Tibet really
matters, then our Government, the United States Government, has
to stop being such a cheap date when it comes to this issue. We
need a bolder policy. We need to be thinking out of the box,
and we need to indicate to the Chinese Government that we are
serious on this matter. Let us take advantage of our power, let
us create some leverage. The first step could be a markup and
the passage of H.R. 1872 and the other legislation that has
been mentioned here.
But I will close with this: I have always believed that if
the United States stands for anything, we need to stand out
loud and foursquare for human rights, and what is happening to
the Tibetan people and the Tibetan culture is unconscionable.
And it is no longer enough for us to tell people we revere the
Dalai Lama or meet him when he comes here, although that is
important. Now is the time to take the next steps. I want a
good relationship with China. I admire the Chinese people, but
this is a serious human rights matter, and it demands more
serious attention by our Government.
And, again, I thank the chairman and the ranking member for
convening this hearing. I yield back.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you for your comments, and we will get on
with the--go ahead. We will go on to the testimony from our
esteemed panel. And I feel blessed that we have you three
experts here today. Not only are you experts in the area, your
passion and your persistence is so important in getting this
message out to bring the spotlight on the world's stage.
We have with us Mr. Richard Gere--I think everybody knows
or has seen his movies--chair of the Board of Directors of the
International Campaign for Tibet; Mr. Tenzin Tethong, director
of Tibetan Service for Radio Free Asia; and Mr. Carl Gershman,
president of the National Endowment for Democracy.
And you guys probably have done this more than I have. You
know there will be a 5-minute timer in front of you. Press your
button that says ``talk'' so the microphone is on, and then you
will see the lights go from green, yellow, and red, and we will
let you talk.
And, Mr. Gere, if you would start off. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF MR. RICHARD GERE, CHAIR OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS,
INTERNATIONAL CAMPAIGN FOR TIBET
Mr. Gere. Well, first of all, I am going to be incredibly
blunt with you: I am totally knocked out by the words that I am
hearing from all of you. And I have seen this evolve over
decades now, how people talk about Tibet and from what part of
their being they speak. And this is coming from a deep place in
all of you. I think everyone in this room is feeling this from
a deep place, how important this is, maybe not strategically
but humanly, and what it means to us as Americans to be coming
from this place of universal responsibility protecting the
welfare and human rights of everyone on this planet.
But I really want to thank you, Chairman Yoho, for
presiding over this.
Mr. Sherman, thank you very much.
And, of course, Ileana, we are on a first-name basis.
And, Eddie, thank you very much for pushing so hard.
Chairman, as always, thank you for the depth of perception
and the openness of your emotions in dealing with a subject as
difficult as this.
I also see, over to my right, there is a painting up here
of Tom Lantos, and as you know, he was chairman of this
committee. He was also the convener of the Congressional Human
Rights Caucus. He was a great friend of mine, great friend of
the Tibetan people, and a close and dear friend of His Holiness
the Dalai Lama. I think he would be so happy right now as he is
looking down from there to hear these fiery, compassionate, and
deeply committed words from all of you, and I thank you for
that.
Fifteen years ago, something kind of miraculous happened.
At the end of 2002, President Bush signed into law the Tibetan
Policy Act after it received bipartisan support in both the
House and the Senate. This legislation dictates how U.S. policy
toward Tibet should be conducted by the administration.
Congress and this subcommittee have a very important role to
play in monitoring that policy and how it is to be conducted.
Ten years ago, on October 17th, 2007, the U.S. Congress
bestowed upon His Holiness our highest civilian honor here in
America with the awarding of the Congressional Gold Medal, and
clearly, there are people in this room who worked really hard
on that to make that happen. I want to thank all of you again
for having done that.
There were so many wonderful people there that day, the
entire government, and it was bipartisan at the highest levels
of President Bush, and First Lady Laura Bush was there. Mr.
Boehner was there. Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell. And I
actually remember Mitch McConnell giving the most powerful
speech that evening on human rights and on behalf of His
Holiness the Dalai Lama. It makes me kind of wish that people
would be talking today the way they did then on how important
human rights are.
As Americans, as people who care, it is kind of the
centerpiece of the American soul, is that we do care, and we
have to continually talk about these things and express them.
Tibet has been an issue that has earned extraordinary
support in the U.S. Congress over the decades, including
humanitarian aid for the Tibetan refugee communities in India
and Nepal. The congressional delegation led by Leader Pelosi
and Congressman Sensenbrenner, which visited India and Nepal
last May, confirmed once again the commitment of this
institution to Tibet and saw firsthand the positive impact that
development aid has had in these communities, and it is pretty
extraordinary, something to be very proud of. Since the 1990s,
subsequent U.S. administrations and Presidents have supported
the call of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, not for independence
but for genuine autonomy for the Tibetan people as guaranteed
in the Chinese Constitution, and for China to respect the
distinct identity of the Tibetan people, including their
language, their religion, and their culture, and to stop the
ongoing persecution of Tibetans.
The respect for the identity of a people and their religion
is something that the American people understand very well and
deeply care about. Before being politicians or actors, we are
human beings who understand that oppression cannot be
tolerated. We understand that all human beings have the right
to the pursuit of happiness and to avoid suffering. This is
what His Holiness the Dalai Lama continuously reminds us of: To
look at what unites us as human beings, as compassionate people
sharing our time and space on this small and very beautiful
planet drifting through an endless universe. We are in this
together, all of us.
This is consistent in this message that His Holiness and
our Tibetan brothers and sisters send to the Chinese Government
and to all of us. Despite the historical, cultural, linguistic,
and ethnic differences, and despite decades of oppression, the
proposal for genuine autonomy presented by the Tibetans shows a
path toward peaceful coexistence and away from endless
conflict. Despite these efforts, the Chinese Government ceased
formal talks with the representatives of His Holiness the Dalai
Lama in 2010, and Tibetans inside Tibet continued to live in
very, very challenging times indeed.
Just last week, November 26th, a 63-year-old Tibetan monk
named Tenga self-immolated in Tibet. He was the 151st Tibetan
to self-immolate in the land of snow since the first one in
2009. We actually have a picture of him right now.
Do you have that?
Ladies and gentlemen, this is Tenga, who just sacrificed
his life for the Tibetan people, his brothers and sisters. But
not just that, I think it was a message to us and perhaps our
failure to engage an issue which is literally life and death
for the Tibetan people and their culture. I don't know if you
can put this on the record. It is up there. Okay. Good. Thank
you.
According to our sources, the body of Tenga has not been
returned to his family. This seems to be what the Chinese
authorities are doing now. They either allow prisoners to die,
as Tenzin Delek Rinpoche, and then some are, in fact, tortured
to death, and the bodies are not returned to their families.
There is a collective punishment to the villages, to the
families. This is clearly against international law, but it is
carried out every day against Tibetans by the Chinese
Government.
As we meet today, hundreds of Tibetans are imprisoned for
expressing their opinions or beliefs. Tibetan monasteries
across Tibet are under strict police surveillance with police
stations actually built inside the monasteries or sometimes
just besides them. Religious regulations give the Chinese
Communist Party, not Tibetan Buddhists, the authority to
identify and appoint reincarnated Tibetan lamas, including the
Dalai Lama. Tibetan nomads are being removed from their land
and relocated in socialist villages. A number of urban centers
in Tibet now have a majority of ethnic Han Chinese settlers,
and the use of a Tibetan language is intensely discouraged.
These are the policies that threaten the very survival of
Tibetan identity.
Now, just a few weeks ago, as you know, the 19th Congress
of the Communist Party reaffirmed and expanded the power and
role of President Xi Jinping. As China's profile obviously
grows on the world's stage, its accountability as to
international law and norms must also grow. The United States
leadership in this area has always been essential to that
accountability, and I call on this committee and our Government
to make sure that accountability is robust.
During President Trump's recent visit to China, the White
House stated that the issue of human rights was raised with
Chinese authorities. We don't have the details on that,
unfortunately, what was said. While this is good, President
Trump and Secretary Tillerson did not publicly highlight the
lack of respect of human rights in Tibet or the need for China
to restart the dialogue process with the Dalai Lama. Now, this
is out of line completely with the provisions of the Tibetan
Policy Act.
It is now critical that the U.S. Congress takes concrete
initiatives to make sure that the Tibet Policy Act, which is
law, is fully implemented and that China is consistently
reminded that the U.S. stands with the Tibetan people in full
support of their peaceful aspirations.
Earlier this year, Congressman McGovern and Senator Rubio
introduced legislation in the House and the Senate to put
pressure on China to allow U.S. diplomats, journalists, and
NGOs to have free access to Tibet based on the principle of
reciprocity. U.S. citizens face severe restrictions in their
access to Tibet, while Chinese citizens, diplomats, NGOs,
journalists, and media have free access to the United States.
By the way, I have not been allowed in mainland China since
1993.
Reciprocity is an important principle in diplomatic
relations that should be implemented, not only when it comes to
trade but also to freedom of movement and freedom of
information. To give you a few examples of the lack of
reciprocity with China, the State Department reports that the
officials of the Government of the United States submitted 39
requests for diplomatic access to the Tibetan Autonomous
Region, TAR, between May 2011 and July 2015. Only 4 were
granted of the 39. And when such requests are granted,
diplomatic personnel are closely supervised and given few
opportunities to meet with local residents not approved by the
authorities. And those that were on the codel to Tibet know how
monitored they were in this process. It was extremely
difficult, impossible, to meet anyone without supervision.
In September 2016, an article in the Washington Post
reported that, quote deg.: ``The Tibetan Autonomous
Region is harder to visit as a journalist than North Korea.''
Furthermore, foreign correspondents----
Mr. Yoho. Mr. Gere, sorry. Can I get you to hold your
recommendations so we can get to the other witnesses? And I
hate to ask you that because you waited for us for 45 minutes.
Mr. Gere. Absolutely. No, please.
Mr. Yoho. But I will give you time during my questioning to
finish that up.
Mr. Gere. No, that is fine. That is perfectly fine. This is
your show.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Gere follows:]
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----------
Mr. Yoho. And the show must go on.
Thank you for all that, though, because I want to hear the
rest of that, and you have got some great recommendations I
think everybody should hear.
Mr. Tethong.
STATEMENT OF MR. TENZIN TETHONG, DIRECTOR OF THE TIBETAN
SERVICE, RADIO FREE ASIA
Mr. Tethong. First of all, I would like to begin by
thanking Chairman Yoho and Ranking Member Sherman for this
opportunity to testify at this hearing. In consideration of
time limits, I will go over only some of the main points in my
written statement, which has already been submitted.
As director or of the Tibetan Service at Radio Free Asia, I
would like to focus my comments on the challenges we face as a
news organization of getting news from the region and
fulfilling our mandated mission of bringing this news to the
Tibetan people. It is extremely difficult for any of our
journalists to have normal access to Tibet. Nevertheless, many
of them maintain various levels of contact with networks of
trusted sources inside Tibet who can provide tips, leads,
images, video, and confirmation of events.
During President Xi Jinping's tenure, China has grown more
strident in enforcing a comprehensive censorship and propaganda
operation in Tibet and increased attacks on Tibetan culture by
demolishing holy sites and demonizing the spiritual leader of
the Tibetan people, His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
Last week, as Richard has already mentioned, RFA reported
the 151st self-immolation protest since 2009. It was carried
out by a 63-year-old monk from Kardze who called out for
freedom in Tibet before he set himself aflame. These self-
immolation protests have explicitly called for greater freedom
for the Tibetan people and the swift return of His Holiness the
Dalai Lama to Tibet.
But each time such a protest takes place, authorities
intensify efforts to clamp down on the sharing of information,
and entire regions and prefectures can be plunged into
communication darkness in the wake of such protests. Weibo and
WeChat, the dominant social media platforms in China, are
heavily monitored and restricted. This was especially evident
in the lead-up to the recent 19th Party Congress. Authorities
ramped up efforts to police WeChat and warned Tibetan monastery
heads about the severe consequences the entire establishments
would face if monks and nuns shared or discussed content deemed
sensitive.
Chinese authorities also bring the heavy hand of law
enforcement down on any Tibetan caught sharing information of
events with foreign outlets. Authorities harass families of
reporters and stringers working for Radio Free Asia, and they
have even targeted Tibetans in the United States. A Tibetan
American in New York, a regular listener to RFA who sends our
programs out over social media, was somehow identified by
Chinese security authorities. The authorities tracked down his
family in Tibet, interrogating and threatening them with
retribution.
While the Chinese journalists travel and work freely in the
United States, no RFA Tibetan reporter can obtain a journalist
visa to enter Tibet. Even when applying for visas to visit
family, RFA reporters are subject to extensive questioning by
Chinese Embassy officials while parallel inquiries are made of
family members back home by local authorities.
Such a process can go on indefinitely and more often than
not result in a denial. Two months ago, one of our reporters
was granted permission to visit his ailing brother after weeks
of pleading for a visa and was finally able to visit and spend
the last few days with his brother before he passed away.
Another reporter who had not met his family members for 10
years had to rendezvous in Hong Kong because he was repeatedly
denied a visa to visit home. Yet another who wanted to visit
relatives in China on a 72-hour nonvisa requirement transit
privilege accorded to all U.S. passport holders was denied
entry because he was identified as a Tibetan.
Beijing has recently redirected increased resources to
build up its Tibetan language media operations on radio,
online, and TV, which offers audiences almost solely
entertainment programming punctuated by propaganda-driven news
serving the CCP's narrative. All the while, they continue to
try and deny access to RFA's programming on radio and online by
jamming shortwave signals and blocking access to the Tibetan
Web site.
The erosion of religious and--pardon me, I have just one
more paragraph--the erosion of religious rights and freedoms in
Tibet may be best illustrated by the demolition and crackdown
on Larung Gar this year. Larung Gar is one of the most
prominent and vibrant Tibetan Buddhist learning centers with
monks and nuns from all over the country. We were able to cover
these developments because many of his residents sent us
photos, reports, and videos. While, similarly, last year, local
activists in eastern Tibet informed us of mining activities in
the region that was causing extensive environmental damage.
When the mining was finally halted, the local Tibetans informed
us that it was outside attention, especially the steady
reporting of RFA which forced Chinese authorities to put an end
to the mining.
Trust is a two-way street for RFA reporter sources and
audiences. We recently learned of a monk was among those
expelled from Larung Gar. He told us that he was devastated
when he was expelled, but he had no regrets in reaching out to
us. Such feedback reaffirms the importance of our mission. As
one Tibetan listener inside China recently said: ``RFA
broadcasts clearly about the conditions inside Tibet and where
His Holiness the Dalai Lama is going to visit and what he is
doing. Because they broadcast such true information, I strongly
trust it.'' RFA strives to keep earning that trust and keep
connecting the Tibetan people with the truth. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Tethong follows:]
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----------
Mr. Yoho. Mr. Tethong, thank you, and I appreciate you
talking about the RFA, how important that is.
Mr. Gershman.
STATEMENT OF MR. CARL GERSHMAN, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ENDOWMENT
FOR DEMOCRACY
Mr. Gershman. Thank you, Chairman Yoho and Ranking Member
Sherman, for the invitation to testify before the subcommittee
on this important matter. It is great to be here today amongst
so many friends.
I want to begin by noting an article that appeared last
week in the Washington Post, by David Ignatius, that was
provocatively entitled ``China's Plan to Rule the World.'' The
article referenced several reports commissioned by the Pentagon
and the Air Force, one of which describes China's economic and
military buildup as perhaps the most ambitious grand strategy
undertaken by a single nation in modern times. The article
describes several dimensions of this strategy, in particular
the $1 trillion One Belt, One Road trade and infrastructure
plan that dwarfs by some seven times the Marshall Plan in post-
war Europe and that has the strategic intent of constructing a
Chinese-led order in Eurasia.
The United States and many other countries have tended to
take a benign view of China's policies because Xi Jinping tries
to present himself to the world as a global citizen, and he
does not indulge in the brazen behavior of Russia's Vladimir
Putin.
In addition, the illusion still persists that the
integration of China into the global economy and political
order will moderate its behavior and encourage its internal
liberalization. In fact, the threat posed by China to the world
order has increased with its growing economic power, and
repression is worse today than at any time since the death of
Mao Zedong four decades ago.
Nowhere is this repression more cruel than in Tibet, where
the Chinese Government is pursuing a policy that the Dalai Lama
has called cultural genocide. In addition to the systematic
effort to destroy the Tibetan religion, language, culture, and
distinct national identity, China has flooded Tibet with Han
Chinese settlers, placed monasteries under direct government
control, arrested and tortured writers, and forcibly resettled
more than 2 million nomads in urban areas, destroying their
traditional way of life and disrupting the fragile ecosystem of
the Tibetan Plateau.
The death and likely murder in prison in July 2015 of
Tenzin Delek Rinpoche, the beloved community leader and
spiritual teacher, is emblematic of this oppression, which has
led to the self-immolation and desperate protest of more than
150 Tibetans. The continued Tibetan resistance to Chinese
oppression exposes the falseness of China's claim to the
legitimacy of its rule in Tibet, which rests on the assertion
stated in a white paper issued by the Chinese Government in
2015 that, ``Tibet has been an integral part of China since
antiquity.'' China insists that it won't resume negotiations
over Tibet's status that it broke off in 2010 until the Dalai
Lama agrees to this assertion, something he cannot do since it
is contradicted by the historical literature and overlooks the
fact that Communist China invaded Tibet and illegally annexed
it in 1959.
I believe that it is not sufficient just to protest against
the massive violations of human rights that are taking place in
Tibet. It is also necessary to state clearly that Tibet was not
a part of China before the invasion occurred, that China
violated international law by invading Tibet, and that it
continues to violate international law by denying the Tibetan
people their right to self-determination.
Most of all, I think we need to take a realistic look at
China's global strategy. In doing so, we need to heed the words
of Liu Xiaobo, the Chinese dissident who was not allowed to
attend the ceremony in Oslo when he was awarded the Nobel Peace
Prize in 2010 and who died in prison last July. More than a
decade ago, Liu warned that if China continued to rise as a
dictatorship, the result will not only be another catastrophe
for the Chinese people but likely also a disaster for the
spread of liberal democracy in the world. We need to remember
Liu Xiaobo, study his writings about the relationship between
international security and political freedom, and shape a
policy toward China that recognizes the dangers we face and is
consistent with the values we cherish.
We also need to remember that the struggle for Tibetan
rights cannot be separated from the fight for human rights and
freedom in China.
In 2008, following the outbreak of violence in Lhasa, Liu
and 28 other Chinese dissidents appealed to Chinese leaders to
engage in direct dialogue with the Dalai Lama and expressed
their hope that the Chinese and Tibetan people will do away
with the misunderstandings between them, develop their
interactions with each other, and achieve unity. That is the
path to a more democratic China and to a more peaceful world.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Gershman follows:]
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----------
Mr. Yoho. Thank you. I appreciate it.
I have just been informed that they are going to call votes
between 4 and 4:15, and so if we can adhere to the 5 minutes.
What I want to read out here is Freedom House's latest freedom
index ranked Tibet second least free place on the planet,
slightly better than Syria but less free than North Korea. I
don't know how that can happen. Yet the situation in Syria and
North Korea get far more media coverage, thanks to the crisis
and the threats of terrorism and nuclear war. Tibetan leaders
lament that their nonviolent movement is ignored while violent
movements and violent regimes succeed. Tibetans are
nationalists, but they are not seeking ethnic purity in Tibet
like the militant Buddhist nationalists in Burma, nor are the
Tibetans seeking their own state like the Kurds in Iraq.
Instead, the Tibetan leadership is pursuing a middle way
approach that seeks limited autonomy within China. They just
want to be left alone.
And as I said, Mr. Gere, I am going to stop there and let
you finish up your talk and your recommendations.
Mr. Gere. Yes. We have recommendations. Sorry. Look, we
think that the Policy Act--the passing of bipartisan bill H.R.
1872, the Reciprocal Access to Tibet Act of 2017, is important.
It is a win. It is international norms, the rule of law, which
is something that is very hard to find inside of Tibet and also
China. But there are norms.
If they want to be the super power that they claim to be
and the world leader they claim to be, these norms are to be
followed, and that is part of what the Tibet Policy Act is
aiming towards, but this is very specific in terms of that
reciprocal access to Tibet.
The Senate version of that, H. Con. Resolution 89, the
same. These things need to be passed, and they can be passed,
and I think it is important.
I think another important part of the Tibet Policy Act was
to encourage the negotiations between the Dalai Lama's
representatives and the Chinese Government. We have not done
that recently, and this needs to be the forefront of what our
policy is with China. It is not unreasonable, and it is
actually good for China. To resolve these Tibetan issues is
good for everyone, especially the Chinese.
It is funny, every time there is a new President of the
People's Republic of China, I somehow get a message to them and
say: The first thing that you can do is become Time's Man of
the Year by coming to a conclusion with this Tibetan problem. A
picture of Xi Jinping with the Dalai Lama shaking hands and
coming to a conclusion costs the Chinese nothing. The Tibetan
point of view is one of nonviolence and inclusion.
I think another point, and I have been making this for
years, is that the administration can't do this alone. The U.S.
can't do it alone. We have to work with our European
counterparts, and not just in Europe but in other countries as
well, in a multilateral approach. And I think, unfortunately,
we don't have a State Department that is fully manned at this
point, but this is the kind of thing the State Department
should be spending time and energy with, counterparts in our
allied countries around the world.
The Chinese are very good at making separate deals with
every country. If we were a unified world in confronting these
problems in China, we really could get somewhere.
The U.S. Special Coordinator for Tibetan Issues is
extremely important. We have yet to have one. This has never
happened. Greg Craig was the very first one--when was it, what
was the year, 1991? Nineteen ninety-seven was the first time,
and we have had--we have been fully employed in that job since
then. We have gone a year now without having a Special
Coordinator for Tibetan Issues, which is part of the Tibet
Policy Act. I think it is reasonable to expect Congress to
demand that that position be filled with a quality high-level
person, as it has always been.
I think the access issue is very important. I think His
Holiness meeting with either the President of the United States
or Secretary Rex Tillerson I think is also important. I think a
man-to-man meeting and understanding of the issues, of
understanding where the Tibetan people are coming from, not how
they are characterized by the Communist Party, but to hear it
from the Tibetans themselves, no better representative than His
Holiness the Dalai Lama.
I think we have to continue our humanitarian assistance to
the Tibetan communities. It is not that much money, frankly.
And the millions of dollars is doing extraordinary things. We
have to continue that. We can't allow that to be taken away.
Another thing we have talked about for some time is
establishing a consulate in Lhasa. Completely doable, and,
again, part of the modern world. If people are traveling--the
Chinese are traveling here; Americans want to and should be
traveling to Tibet--and we should have a consulate. And I
think, beyond that, we should say to the Chinese: If you want a
consulate in Atlanta, I think you can give us one in Lhasa.
Mr. Yoho. That is right. I am going to have to cut you off
and go on to Mr. Sherman, but what I would like you to do is go
ahead and submit those so we can put them in the record and we
can review those because I think they are very valid points.
Mr. Gere. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Yoho. I really appreciate it.
We will go to the ranking member, Mr. Brad Sherman, of
California.
Mr. Sherman. We have got to get the truth out. I want to
talk a little bit about the Voice of America in getting
truthful information to the people of Tibet. We also need to
get the truth out to the American people, and as I commented in
my opening statement, China has a system of restricting the
number of movies that it will accept from the United States so
they can--they have got each studio in their quotas. They can
then intimidate American studios not to cover Tibet. They can
even intimidate American studios not to feature actors that are
concerned with Tibet.
Mr. Gere, I would like to see you in more movies. What is
China doing and how do they use this quota system not only to
affect you but to terrorize everyone else in the entertainment
business in the United States into not being the second Richard
Gere and the third Richard Gere on this issue?
Mr. Gere. Well, I think it is a little more complicated
than you are presenting it. There definitely is a quota, and
the quota is controlled by the Communist Party for sure, but it
is in partnership with the exhibitors in China.
Now, if there is a quota, obviously, the exhibitors are
going to want movies that are going to make the most money. So
they end up being, you know, CGI blockbuster movies.
Mr. Sherman. If there was a movie that everyone in the
world was talking about and it was made by a studio that they
had on their blacklist, they might still let it in?
Mr. Gere. No, highly unlikely. That is not true----
Mr. Sherman. Even then, they might not let it in?
Mr. Gere.--if it is blacklisted.
But the power is this, is that they can say the villain is
no longer going to be Chinese, and Richard Gere is not going to
play the hero. They can say that.
Mr. Sherman. So you are saying the Chinese would be fine as
long as you played the villain?
Mr. Gere. They might. They might.
Mr. Sherman. Right.
Mr. Gere. They might. But clearly this is control of the--
--
Mr. Sherman. Not only their ability to control one movie,
but they can turn to a studio that has 10 blockbusters and say:
Well, maybe we will let one of them in, or maybe we will let
eight of them in. There are some other good movies for some
other studios just down the street. Maybe we will let one of
them in, and maybe we will let seven in. Do we like your
studio? Will we give one studio seven movies because they don't
have Richard Gere in any of their films?
Mr. Gere. Look, I am sure that is part of it, but I think,
again, it is more complex than that. I think the more sinister
part of this--and it is not only in movies; it is in everything
with the Chinese--people self-edit before the Chinese even have
to say anything; they are so terrified of the Chinese.
Mr. Sherman. Right.
Mr. Gere. And a lot of this in terms of the movies is the
Chinese don't have to say, ``Don't have Richard Gere,''
whoever; the studios themselves will self-edit that way.
Now, personally, to me, it doesn't matter. I don't make
those kinds of movies anyhow. I make very small, dramatic
films. So it has had no impact on my career, zero. But it is a
complicated situation. The root of it is the fear of the
Communist Party ruling out your product getting into China.
Mr. Sherman. But there might be a Hollywood actor, big
name, that does make a career in those big budget movies, and
if that person was sitting next to you today, I am not sure
that it would be lost on the studio that they have to maintain
a good relationship with China.
I want to move on to the issue of the Voice of America and
Radio Free Asia. The Chinese are jamming many of these signals.
That proves to me that they are of some importance. How
important are they to the Tibetan people, and what additional
steps can we take, Mr. Tethong?
Mr. Tethong. The Voice of America and Radio Free Asia
broadcasts are a lifeline to the Tibetan people. If it were not
for these broadcasts, the Tibetan people would be completely
starved of any real and correct information of what is
happening in their own backyard, as well as in the rest of the
world.
We have been relatively successful in getting information
out of Tibet, as I stated earlier, but there is a lot more we
can do. We need to find more people who are able to communicate
inside Tibet and to bring the information out. So that
requires, I think, more resources, to say the least.
Mr. Sherman. I want to get one more question in. China
seems to be demolishing religious sites and restricting
religious practice in Tibet. What can--I will ask both Mr. Gere
and Mr. Gershman--what can the United States do to push China
to promote the rebuilding of destroyed Tibetan Buddhist
monasteries and holy sites?
Mr. Gershman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I suggested in my
remarks, I think it is important to raise the ante in the way
we deal with China on this issue. It is important that we raise
these issues, that we protest these issues, but I think we also
need more leverage in the relationship.
And I believe we will get more leverage in the relationship
if we raise what is the fundamental issue, which is that
China's rule, its occupation, its control of Tibet is
illegitimate.
Tibet was an independent entity, if not an independent
country, when China invaded in 1949 and 1950 and when it
annexed Tibet in 1959. This is the issue China itself has
raised in saying that it won't talk to the Dalai Lama until he
says China was part of--Tibet was part of China since
antiquity.
Mr. Sherman. Which is just false.
Mr. Gershman. Of course. But I think it is very, very
important. And it can start with the Congress, if it is not
going to start with the administration, to raise this point
repeatedly to put this issue on the agenda. And once you have
done that, in my view, you will get China's attention on the
kind of issues you are raising.
I just want to say one other point about information, which
you have raised so well. The National Endowment for Democracy
just today, a few hours ago, issued a report on what was called
sharp power, which is China's information plan, information
system, to control, distort, manipulate, the information that
reaches the publics in the West and Russia as well. But it is
part of the rising authoritarian influence in the world.
It also is very important in our universities with these
Confucius Institutes. There are over 100 in our society. They
control academic freedom. They control how China is taught in
the universities. And they also exist in countries all over the
world--because the report focuses just on four countries--it
could focus on many more--Poland, Slovakia, Argentina, and
Peru. But it is all over the world today where they are
expanding their influence in the field of information. We don't
call it soft power. We call it sharp power because the goal is
to perforate, to penetrate the way a syringe does, democratic
societies.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you. I appreciate you. And you have brought
that out very well. And we are going to come back to that.
And we will next go to Mr. Scott Perry.
Mr. Perry. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
Thanks, gentlemen, for your attendance today. I will tell
you that I remain very frustrated with the pace of things in
Tibet. And while I listened to the dialogue here today, Mr.
Gere, I couldn't agree with you more. The consulate in Lhasa,
it should be like the minimum standard, right? It shouldn't
even be a question for us. The Special Coordinator for Tibetan
Issues, I agree completely.
But I got to tell you: Communists are Communists. And they
have been Communists as long as--that is what they are, and
they do what they do. Tibet is a horrifically strangled area of
the world, and it has been ever since I have been. In my
memory, that is all Tibet has been, which is an example of the
oppression of communism. And as we sit here today, their
culture is slowly but steadily being strangled away from them
as they participate in it literally, right? When you talk about
the movies, that they self-correct, that is their own
participation and their own demise. And so, while we talk about
the things that we are today, it seems to me that there needs
to be a new view of this, new actions taken. The actions we
have taken, asking for a special coordinator and asking for
more dialogue, that is not getting the job done, is the point.
It is not doing--the Chinese are playing long ball. They look
at things in terms of hundreds of years. We can't get past
dinner tonight.
So my question to you is: I wonder--and maybe because you
are all obviously very involved in Tibet and what Tibet would
do, and so maybe these questions are ill-founded for you, but I
just wonder what your perception would be if the United
States--what would China do if the United States recognized the
Tibetan Government in exile? Anybody?
Mr. Gershman. We would get their attention.
Mr. Gere. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, that is it. You would get
their attention.
Look, the Chinese--and it has been funny. We have been, for
many decades, you know, we have been talking about this and
with really smart Representatives and Senators, people in
government, State Department, and everyone knows how the
Chinese function. It is nibbling. They nibble at the edges of
the world.
Mr. Perry. Consistently.
Mr. Gere. Consistently. And we back off. And every time we
back off a step, they take that step in every area, whether it
is land, whether it is law, whether it is morals, ethics,
whatever it may be. If we back off, they take it. And we have
to say no. We have to recognize it for what it is, say it for
what it is, call it for what it is, and just tell the truth
straightforward.
Now, obviously, it is difficult financially for us;
economically it could be. But this is why I say we have to do
it with the rest of the world. The EU has to be a partner in
this with us. And we have to put the energy and time it takes
to create that partnership. Then we have real teeth dealing
with the Chinese.
Mr. Perry. I would agree with you. And I think that that
this needs to be--if we believe in freedom, and autonomous
rule, and especially for the people of Tibet, who don't get any
credit for trying to be----
Mr. Gere. For nonviolence.
Mr. Perry. For their nonviolence, right? Who would be a
better partner with the United States of America than the
people of Tibet and the government?
Mr. Gere. Also for China. Who would be a partner for them
than the real Tibetans? Not the ones they pretend to----
Mr. Perry. Well, they have a different view of things. They
are not interested in a good partner. They are interested in
control of everything around them, including Tibet. But----
Mr. Gere. Including their own people.
Mr. Perry. Absolutely. Which they intend to make Tibet, of
course.
So I would imagine it could--it could just be unilateral
action by this President. And while I imagine many people find
fault with the President, he could tell the President of China
that we are not going to have any more substantive discussions
until you drop your demand that the Dalai Lama recognize that
Tibet is a Chinese territory, right? He could start with that.
Mr. Gere. Great. Great.
Mr. Gershman. Absolutely.
Mr. Perry. Unilaterally. It doesn't take an act of
Congress. And he might actually get some good press for 5
minutes in a day, right? He might actually get some good press
for that. But it seems to me that this Congress--and we should
put a package together that includes a minimum of these things
that we support, even if it is just in a resolution, a
consulate and these demands regarding the Chinese Government in
regard to Tibet, and move that swiftly through the House and
the Senate, and demand action, and demand a signature and then
action on it.
Mr. Gere. God bless you. That is terrific. Thank you.
Mr. Gershman. And it was China--I just want to note. It is
China that is raising the issue of history.
Mr. Perry. Well, of course, it is. Like Mr. Gere said, when
we--when good people are silent, that is when tyranny continues
on its march. And we are busy people around the world trying to
do good things and trying to do good things in our own country.
But we have to recognize the small things that we can do that
can make a huge difference. And, to me, that is a very small
ask to say to China: You are not going to revise history. We
won't accept it. And there are going to be consequences to your
actions.
Mr. Chairman, I appreciate your indulgence, and I yield.
Mr. Yoho. No, I appreciate you bringing that up, very
important.
Now we will next go to Mr. Gerry Connolly.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And thank you all for being here today.
For the record, working for the Tom Lantos Commission
Defending Freedoms Project, I sort of have adopted the case of
Lobsang Tsering, who is now serving 10 years in Chinese prison
under the trumped-up charge of inciting self-immolation. And
there is some reason to believe he may have been--you know, his
testimony may have been coerced. But what this is really all
about is the expression of dissent. And certainly I call upon
the Chinese Government to release Lobsang Tsering and everyone
else who is a prisoner of conscience with respect to the
subject, Tibet.
I would also say that, probably unlike most of my
colleagues here, I went to Tibet in 1986. I led the first joint
Senate and House staffdel to Tibet. We were the first allowed
in, that I know of, by the Chinese Government. And it was a
remarkable experience because what we saw was the evidence--
this was 31 years ago now--of the Chinese plan to repopulate
the Tibetan homeland with the Han, non-Tibetans. And there are
a lot of Chinese. So not that hard to do if you can get Chinese
willing to live there. We saw the destruction, both from the
cultural revolution ravages and current suppression of
monasteries, of places--sacred shrines and so forth, really
important to Tibetan Buddhism.
We saw, certainly, and heard some low-key testimony of
people who had themselves been brutalized, incarcerated, and
persecuted. We saw the propaganda efforts of the Chinese
Government in terms of the narrative about what Tibet was and
had always been. This is 31 years ago. In Beijing, they
insisted we meet with the Panchen Lama--that particular Panchen
Lama is now dead. And I felt like I was meeting Quisling, you
know, the Norwegian leader who basically did the bidding of the
Nazi occupiers in Norway during World War II. I thought, I
can't believe I am hearing this alternative view of the
universe and Tibetan culture and religion from somebody with
your title and your prestige. And I think--frankly, I don't
think Tibetans listened to him. But it was a remarkable thing,
nonetheless, in terms of how the Chinese staged this. So
everything I am hearing 31 years later is still true.
Mr. Gere, you talked about nibbling away. But they are also
systematic and very patient. They just don't give up. And I
guess I would just ask any and all of you: So here we are, 31
years later for me. Has it gotten better? Has it gotten worse?
How successful do you think the Chinese Government is in
consolidating that set of policies to their end, which is
basically to make Tibet Chinese, culturally, ethnically,
politically?
Mr. Tethong. As far as we know, even though the Chinese
have been very successful on a superficial level, we know--we
believe that the Tibetans have not given in, so to speak. In
fact, the Tibetan spirit is still very strong. And I think that
is what drives people to send information out----
Mr. Connolly. If I can interrupt you, so what has happened
demographically? What percentage of Tibet today, population
wise, is ethnic Han?
Mr. Tethong. It is difficult to get exact demographics
because----
Mr. Connolly. Of course.
Mr. Tethong [continuing]. The figures are controlled. But
there may be anywhere from 1 million to 6 million Chinese on
the Tibetan Plateau, which before 1959, may have been less than
100,000.
Mr. Connolly. That is right.
Mr. Tethong. But most of these Chinese will come with
special privileges. They have this ability to set up house
right away without the house registration. They are given other
incentives, through business and government, which are denied
to many Tibetans right in that local area, including Tibetans
from other parts of Tibet who are not allowed to move around.
So, with all that incentive, there are increasing numbers of
Chinese in the urban areas. But we also know that most Chinese
would prefer not to be in Tibet because the high altitude is
not the best place to be.
Mr. Connolly. Right.
Mr. Tethong. So that is another reality that is also
unfolding at the same time.
Mr. Connolly. But, still, a lot of people move there.
If I am allowed one final observation: Mr. Gershman, so
like the Presidents of the last two decades, Mr. Trump has met
with the Dalai Lama, right? And the United States, both in the
form of the Secretary of State and the President, when they
have an opportunity with President Xi or other senior Chinese
officials, we brought up Tibet, and human rights in Tibet, and
the situation in Tibet consistently? Have I got that right?
Mr. Gere. No, not at all.
Mr. Connolly. Am I wrong?
Mr. Gere. You are wrong.
Mr. Connolly. Well, Lord almighty. Help clarify, Mr. Gere.
Mr. Gere. No, His Holiness has not met with either Trump or
Tillerson. And there is a question as to whether or not that
will happen. I think it should happen. Of course, it should
happen. It has happened since the first George Bush and in--I
think it was 1991, I think, when the first meeting was. Every
President since then has spent serious time with His Holiness
and his representatives. But it has not happened thus far.
Mr. Connolly. Well, final point----
Mr. Gere. And we don't know----
Mr. Connolly. I know. Thank you, Mr. Gere.
I wanted Mr. Gershman just to talk about the political
points. So are we using our diplomatic spigots to press home
this case whenever we have that opportunity with senior Chinese
officials?
Mr. Gershman. I don't think so. I don't--the issue may
occasionally get raised in a symbolic way when meetings take
place. But what really I was calling for, in my brief
testimony, was a comprehensive, integrated policy that
recognizes the full scope of the challenge that is not just,
you know, focusing on Tibet because it goes so much beyond that
in China's global policy today. And its influence and power are
expanding. You just have to look at the alarm in a country like
India or in Japan to understand how the countries in the
neighborhood are viewing this.
And I think we need to be in touch with our allies on this.
And we need to shape a coordinated policy which does--should
put the issue on the table and raise the issue of human rights,
but as I said in my testimony, I think we have to go beyond
that. And we have to look at the fundamental, underlying issue,
which is that the Tibet people are being denied their right to
self-determination. The Dalai Lama has not--what the Dalai Lama
wants with the Middle Way policy is genuine autonomy. He is not
talking about independence. He is talking about genuine
autonomy. And I think we have to get behind that and support it
vigorously and also then to raise the issue of the status of
Tibet.
Mr. Yoho. I thank you for your time.
Mr. Connolly. Mr. Chairman, thank you for your courtesy.
Mr. Yoho. Yes, sir.
We will next go to the lady from Florida, Chairman
Emeritus----
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much. I am no lady; I am a
Member of Congress.
And to follow up on Mr. Connolly's remarks, I wanted to
ask, Mr. Connolly, when you led that staffdel, was that when
you were a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee?
Because I have heard that rumor once or twice.
Mr. Connolly. So I am going to break this news to you and
confirm it: I was a senior staff member on the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee----
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. I had no idea. I have never heard that.
Mr. Connolly. Yeah. Yeah.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much.
Mr. Connolly. You are more than welcome.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Well, Mr. Gere, you had--that is a
private joke we have going.
You had recommended in your testimony that the United
States ``urge the new Chinese leadership to reevaluate the
stability maintenance approach applied in Tibet and the
dominance of the security apparatus.''
I would like to ask you for your thoughts on whether this
stability maintenance approach is having the positive impact on
stability that it claims.
Mr. Gere. Well, stability maintenance is the hard fist.
That is basically what it is. There are no carrots associated
with this at all. It is just blind and complete repression.
There is no incentive for the Tibetans. It is an approach that
is doomed to failure. And the only way that it could succeed is
if they actually kill all the Tibetans. And they have created
such a pressure cooker situation that, of course, there is a
point where people feel that they have nothing to lose. And
then you see these self-immolations.
Now, there is very little violence against Chinese. It
hasn't exploded that way. This is not a terrorist community.
And the limited ability for Tibetans to express their pain and
their suffering is releasing now in the self-immolations. I
mean, it is one of the saddest things one could ever imagine.
Monks and nuns and laypeople who, out of despair and love and
compassion for their own people, their own culture, this is the
only cry that they can make that can possibly be heard. The
tools of expression are not given to them. They have been taken
away in the extreme. So this is a policy that is doomed to
failure on all levels unless it is complete genocide.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Horrific.
And we have heard report after report today, Mr. Chairman,
about the invasive, the restrictive, the brutal nature of the
Chinese security apparatus as it attempts to erase the culture
and the identity of the Tibetan people, demolishing Buddhist
sites, attacking the language of Tibet.
Do you think that this approach is undermining the very
stability that it is attempting to institute?
Mr. Gere. Well, look, we have been positing--and I think
rationally, not just emotionally--the solution to the problem
is the Dalai Lama. The solution is someone who is deeply
respected and honored by the Tibetan people, who is an honest
broker. If they sat down with him and said: Well, what is
really meaningful to you? The reality is it is something they
can freely give away. It is the free expression of their
culture, their religion, their concern for each other as a
community of like feelings and emotions and vision of
possibility of the future. There is nothing negative in the
Tibetan soul that would hurt the Chinese experiment.
It is a fool's errand that the Chinese are on here that
ultimately hurts them as well. This is a huge problem for them,
Tibet. You think they want to have this hearing in the U.S.
Congress and the kind of outrage that is expressing itself
around the world of the treatment of Tibetans? It is no good
for anyone. So it is a radical rethinking of this.
But I also want to come back to what Carl was saying. Tibet
is not an isolated situation. To deal with the Tibetan
situation, you have got to see all of Asia. And you have to see
the 100-year, the 200-year plan of China and how they will take
over Siberia. They will take over the Turkestan areas. They
will take over Southern Europe. There is no question about
this.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. The long-haul game that Mr. Perry----
Mr. Gere. They are moving in that direction. And they are
moving at a quicker pace than even they realized they could.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much.
Mr. Chairman, thanks for letting me be a part of this
subcommittee today. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Yoho. I always enjoy having your input and your wisdom.
And I appreciate it.
I want to go back to something. You know, and I think, Mr.
Gershman, you have all brought it up. And that is the
aggression of China. And I think you are spot on. And we have
said this before, that they are going to fail. China will fail
at this because they fear freedom and liberties. But that is a
universal belief all people have. They want to be free. They
want to be self-determining. They want to be self-governing.
And we are so fortunate in this country to have a system that
allows that. And we need to sometimes take a pause and look at
that and really embrace the freedoms we have in this country
because it doesn't take you long to go to another country to
see what is happening, the encroachment on freedoms. I mean,
the guy in North Korea that was trying to get out, they shoot
people trying to get out of their country, and we have got
people wanting to come into our country. It is backwards. And
China will continue to fail until they embrace their people and
empower them. Yeah, they are doing great right now. But it is
not long term.
With the 19th Communist Party Congress that was in China
where Xi Jinping consolidated his power--and this is almost a
rhetorical question--how do you believe Xi Jinping's elevation
will affect Tibet, for the better or for the worse?
Mr. Gere. There is nothing to indicate that he is a good
guy, okay?
Mr. Yoho. Mr. Tethong?
Mr. Tethong. From what we have seen in the last 5 years of
his tenure, first, things have gotten worse in Tibetan areas
and restrictions have increased. And the deliberate attempt to
diminish Tibetan culture and identity is very apparent. So I
think it is difficult to see anything promising in the near
future.
Mr. Yoho. You are right. And the same thing is going on in
Taiwan and in Hong Kong. And they are influencing--I mean, even
South Korea. The effect China has on Australia now is mind
boggling.
Mr. Gershman, do you have anything you want to add to that?
Mr. Gershman. Well, you are absolutely right, Mr. Chairman.
I think what we are seeing today around Asia, including
Australia, yes, is alarm at what they see as a retreating West
and an expanding China, an expanding influence of China.
I just want to mention one thing in response to
Congresswoman Ros-Lehtinen's point about the failure of the
Chinese policy. I quoted in my testimony the 29 Chinese
dissidents who were calling for dialogue with the Dalai Lama,
one of whom, the lead one, was Liu Xiaobo. And they said that a
country that wishes to avoid partition of its territory must
first avoid divisions among its nationalities. And they call
for eliminating animosity that brings about--to bring about
national reconciliation.
The more they oppress the Tibetan people, the greater the
likelihood is that there will be less willingness to try to
reach some kind of a compromise, more readiness to resist. And
that is what we are seeing today. It is a desperate form of
resistance today. But, you know, as you suggest, Mr. Chairman,
authoritarian rule is never secure. And I think that we have to
have patience.
The Chinese have patience. We have to not only have
patience and embrace freedom. We have to recognize that we do
have rivals. Those rivals have plans. And we have to develop
strategies to try to deal with the threats that we face in a
realistic and comprehensive way, building alliances, as Richard
says, because I think there are a lot of countries that are
looking to us now to support in leadership on this and are
very, very concerned with the international environment today.
Mr. Yoho. Thank you for your comments.
Mr. Scott Perry, you got a second round of questions?
Mr. Sherman wanted to hold off for a minute.
Mr. Perry. Well, then I will indulge him.
The struggle over the next Dalai Lama. Just like Hong Kong,
we fully expect the Chinese to influence that to the maximum
that they can, and I wonder two things. What will the Tibetan
people do when they see the overt interference and a puppet--is
there such thing as a puppet Dalai Lama, so to speak? But I
mean, as horrific and--just as horrific as that sounds, I am
sure that the Chinese Government doesn't care. What would the
people of Tibet do? And what should the United States be doing
in advance of that expectation to ensure that the Chinese
either decide that is not in their best interest or to dissuade
them as much as possible?
Mr. Tethong. Well, I think if the Chinese recognize a so-
called puppet Dalai Lama, it is very likely that no Tibetan
would really recognize him as the Dalai Lama. The last Panchen
Lama which the Chinese recognized, he may be a decent young
man, but he is finding very little open acceptance in Tibet
itself. And his appearances, both among Tibetans and in China,
is also very limited. I think the Chinese Government realizes
that. So I don't think it will be a successful effort if they
do that.
As far as what we can do from there, I think making it very
clear that it is absolutely ridiculous for a Communist Party
institution to recognize Tibetan Buddhist institution. I think
just pointing out how ridiculous that I think is the first step
in trying to prevent the Chinese from doing that.
Mr. Perry. But without the kind of the specter of the
immediacy of the issue, so to speak, is anybody going to listen
to that message? I hate to say it that way. But I just don't
know that anybody is going to hear that without the urgency as
opposed to after the current Dalai Lama passes.
Mr. Gere. I think absolutely the U.S. Government should say
it is up to the Tibetan people to make this decision. It was a
laughable moment that--you know, His Holiness is an 82-year-old
man. He was asked, who is going to be the next Dalai Lama? And
he said, ``Well, the institution is up to the Tibetan people if
they want a Dalai Lama. But, beyond that, if they want the
Dalai Lama, I guarantee you I will not be born in a Chinese-
controlled area,'' at which point the Communist Party said,
``It isn't up to the Dalai Lama to decide where he will be born
next, it is up to the Communist Party,'' of course
misunderstanding completely the logic process of transference
of consciousness.
The U.S. Government going on record as saying that it is
not up to the Communist Party, it is up to the religious
authorities of the Tibetan community to make that decision, and
go beyond that and say, of the free Tibetan community,
religious community, to make those decisions.
Mr. Perry. And that would be something that we could
include----
Mr. Gere. Absolutely.
Mr. Perry [continuing]. As Congress in----
Mr. Gere. And most important.
Mr. Perry. Yeah.
Mr. Gere. Absolutely. That is terrific.
Mr. Perry. Yeah. That would, to me, be simple, right? That
would be simple.
Mr. Gere. Yes. Straightforward.
Mr. Perry. Should the United States limit the travel of
Chinese diplomats or at least raise the specter of limiting the
travel of Chinese diplomats until we see any movement at all? I
mean, I don't see any positive direction in this relationship
between China and Tibet in my lifetime. I don't see any. So, to
me, we need some game-changers here. So would that be something
at least to discuss that would, at a minimum, slow down, for
instance, the Chinese's--China's slow and methodical
strangulation of Tibet? Would it at least have them take pause,
even to just bring it up?
Mr. Gershman. Well, the legislation raises the issue of
reciprocation. And if journalists and U.S. officials and others
are not permitted to travel to Tibet, then there should be a
response to that from this country. In other words, we need a
single standard. We need equality in this relationship. So I
think the legislation that Congressman McGovern has drafted, as
I have seen it, addresses this point well.
Mr. Perry. Yeah. It would seem that most Americans and most
people around the globe would agree that equal reciprocity is
realistic and not beyond the realm of fairness, right? So----
Mr. Gershman. Absolutely. And I think--on your previous
point, I just want to say that it is a fundamental issue of
religious freedom. And, you know, it behooves the United
States.
Mr. Perry. If not this country, who is going to stand up
for that?
Mr. Gershman. Everyone--I mean, in this country, we must
stand up for religious freedom. And we have to get other
countries to stand up for this fundamental right because what
the Chinese are now doing, when the chief official of the
Communist Party says that the Dalai Lama is betraying his own
faith by saying that he might not reincarnate if--you know, you
won't reincarnate if you cannot--if you cannot continue the
work. If they are being prevented from continuing the work, it
is not for the Chinese Communist Party to make that decision.
They are preventing the Dalai Lama, and presumably his
successor, from continuing the work of the Dalai Lama. It is up
to the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan people to make that decision,
not the Chinese Government. And I think we should stand up very
vigorously for the principle of religious freedom.
Mr. Perry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your indulgence. I
yield.
Mr. Yoho. No. I appreciate it.
Now, we will go to Mr. Sherman.
Mr. Sherman. The idea that the Chinese Communist Party
would make a theological determination offers some comic relief
to what is otherwise a very serious hearing.
Mr. Gershman. I once called that shameless impudence.
Mr. Sherman. Mr. Gere, who is the appropriate body to
identify the next Dalai Lama and to determine the existing
Dalai Lama. The existing Dalai Lama has told us where he will
not be reborn, but we don't know whether he will be reborn and
in which, a young man or--I don't know the theology, whether it
be a young man or young woman.
Mr. Gere. It could be a woman. Could be a woman. Could be--
have a Western body. I mean, it is whatever----
Mr. Sherman. What is the group of people that will
officially identify for Tibetan Buddhists who is the next Dalai
Lama?
Mr. Gere. I can only give that to you generally. I can't
give you the exact people. But certainly the religious
community around His Holiness, the heads of the four schools of
Tibetan Buddhism, certainly the heads of the Gelugpa school of
Tibetan Buddhism would be intimately involved with this
process.
Mr. Sherman. The Catholic Church has identified for the
world: These are the cardinals; this is where they will meet--
--
Mr. Gere. It is not----
Mr. Sherman [continuing]. And you are saying this is more a
kind of----
Mr. Gere. It is not as organized as that.
Mr. Sherman [continuing]. A kind of consensus of----
Mr. Gere. Well, it is quite possible, and this happened
before, that this Dalai Lama will give indications of who he
will be next time. And that will be part of the process.
Mr. Sherman. Will he identify those individuals that have
the capacity to determine----
Mr. Gere. I would assume that is the case, yes.
Mr. Sherman. Okay. I mean, the Catholic Church makes my job
easier as a non-Catholic who has to deal with religions by--
this Pope will no doubt identify that these are the cardinals.
And you can see how it will be easier for the United States to
know who is the head of Tibetan Buddhism if the existing head
of Tibetan Buddhism will tell us----
Mr. Gere. You know, these are really good questions. And,
to be honest, there are things in the works now that would
clarify that exact issue, that there would be a recognized body
that would present to the rest of the world. The Tibetans will
know. They have always known.
Mr. Sherman. And the heads of the major schools of Tibetan
Buddhism, are they subject to Chinese pressure?
Mr. Gere. Not outside. But certainly inside, yeah.
Mr. Sherman. Well, I mean, I wonder, do they reside in----
Mr. Gere. No. The heads, as we know them now, are in India
or Nepal.
Mr. Sherman. Okay.
Mr. Gere. Yeah.
Mr. Sherman. So, Mr. Gershman, and others. You can see how
China just looks at this big piece of the map of the world and
says, ``We want to control that,'' but this is an area of the
world that has been sparsely populated because it is very
difficult to create food there in significant quantities. Are
there particular parts of Tibet where China says, ``Ah ha, that
is where the gold mine is''? When they see economic
development, where do they see it? What are they looking for?
Mr. Gershman. I assume it is in the area of minerals. And
they really are destroying the ecology of the area. And the
monk I mentioned in my testimony, Tenzin Delek Rinpoche, one of
the things he tried to do before he was arrested 13 years
before his death in 2015 was to protect the environment because
they really are destroying it and, of course, uprooting the
nomads. And I think this is one really, really critical issue
that we have to raise.
Obviously, there are very significant water resources in
the Himalayas which are also--the Chinese would want to use for
the development of energy purposes. So there are a lot of
economic interests that they would have, but the fundamental
interest is geopolitical. And it has led to what is now----
Mr. Sherman. And they are building islands in the South
China Sea not because that is----
Mr. Gershman. But, also, at the same time that they were
doing that, there was almost, before the Party Congress, during
the summer and into September, there was almost a military
conflict. There was a military standoff with India over the
Doklam Plateau which also involves Sikkim and Bhutan. And all
of these areas are scared. And China backed off. I don't think
they wanted a conflict before the Party Congress. But they are
going to come back to those issues too. So they really have a
very, very large geopolitical interest in maintaining that
territory. And, you know, as I suggested, they invaded that
territory. They occupy it illegally. And I think that has to be
said.
Mr. Sherman. I will ask one more question, and anyone else.
Is there any concern in Beijing that their access to the U.S.
market for all their exports could in any way be affected by
their persecution of the people of Tibet?
Mr. Gere. I mean, there is no reason for them to fear it.
We have rolled over.
Mr. Sherman. Right.
Mr. Gere. The U.S. has rolled over. And, unfortunately----
Mr. Sherman. I think that answers it. And the question for
us is, what do we do to change the answer to that through our
policy?
I will yield back.
Mr. Gere. Well, I think what we discussed before, and Mr.
Perry, I think, very cleanly described the way forward. There
were half a dozen clear, simple, rational things that we can do
and make part of our law. And if it is immediately making it
the sense of the Congress, so be it. Move it into the territory
of absolute law as the Tibet Policy Act is.
Mr. Yoho. Well, they have called votes, and we have to go.
But I want to tell you how much we really appreciate this. And
what we look for--I don't like to have meetings to have
meetings. We like to have legislation come out of this. And we
will round up the members that were here, bring some ideas
together, and you should see some positive movement.
I was at a conference a couple of years ago, and we had a
lot of the generals, retired generals, active generals, of the
United States. And they were saying that we are going through a
tectonic shift in world powers that we have not seen since pre-
World War II. And now we see the rise of China with the 19th
Congress and Xi Jinping came out and said that the era of China
has come, that it is time for them to take the world stage. You
know, I find that very threatening. And, as you have said, we
have fed this monster because we demand cheap things. And it is
time to change the narrative and just say: The game is over,
and we are going to invest in like-minded allies. Like-minded
allies believe in liberties and freedoms, those things that we
talked about, the things that we hold dearly in this country.
And I think you are seeing the world divide along these lines.
What we know is a government that expects the people to serve a
party I don't think will be long-lasting, as you brought up,
whereas you have a government that serves the people is the way
to go. And I think the good guys will win on this.
Mr. Gershman. I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman. Your voice
and the voice of your colleagues is extremely important on this
issue and on the issue of freedom fundamentally. And I want to
thank you.
Mr. Yoho. Well, I appreciate you all. Have a good time.
Mr. Gere. Listen, from my side, I think this is one of the
best testimonies and interactions with all of you in Congress
that I have ever seen. And I want to thank you from the bottom
of my heart, and I think everyone else here who cares about
Tibet. Thank you so much.
Mr. Sherman. I want to point out. She doesn't want me to
mention her. But there is, of course, a Special Coordinator for
Tibet. My wife served in that office for several years. She
continues to work at the State Department in human rights. So I
want to give her a shout out.
[Whereupon, at 4:17 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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