[House Hearing, 115 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] BOLSTERING THE GOVERNMENT'S CYBERSECURITY: LESSONS LEARNED FROM WANNACRY ======================================================================= JOINT HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT & SUBCOMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ June 15, 2017 __________ Serial No. 115-17 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov ______ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 26-234PDF WASHINGTON : 2017 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; DC area (202) 512-1800 Fax: (202) 512-2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402-0001 COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY HON. LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas, Chair FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas DANA ROHRABACHER, California ZOE LOFGREN, California MO BROOKS, Alabama DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon BILL POSEY, Florida ALAN GRAYSON, Florida THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky AMI BERA, California JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut RANDY K. WEBER, Texas MARC A. VEASEY, Texas STEPHEN KNIGHT, California DONALD S. BEYER, JR., Virginia BRIAN BABIN, Texas JACKY ROSEN, Nevada BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia JERRY MCNERNEY, California GARY PALMER, Alabama ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia PAUL TONKO, New York RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana BILL FOSTER, Illinois DRAIN LaHOOD, Illinois MARK TAKANO, California DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida COLLEEN HANABUSA, Hawaii JIM BANKS, Indiana CHARLIE CRIST, Florida ANDY BIGGS, Arizona ROGER W. MARSHALL, Kansas NEAL P. DUNN, Florida CLAY HIGGINS, Louisiana ------ Subcommittee on Oversight HON. DRAIN LaHOOD, Illinois, Chair BILL POSEY, Florida DONALD S. BEYER, Jr., Virginia, THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky Ranking Member GARY PALMER, Alabama JERRY MCNERNEY, California ROGER W. MARSHALL, Kansas ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado CLAY HIGGINS, Louisiana EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas ------ Subcommittee on Research and Technology HON. BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia, Chair FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut STEPHEN KNIGHT, California JACKY ROSEN, Nevada DARIN LaHOOD, Illinois SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana AMI BERA, California DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida DONALD S. BEYER, JR., Virginia JIM BANKS, Indiana EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas ROGER W. MARSHALL, Kansas LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas C O N T E N T S June 15, 2017 Page Witness List..................................................... 2 Hearing Charter.................................................. 3 Opening Statements Statement by Representative Darin LaHood, Chairman, Subcommittee on Oversight, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives....................................... 4 Written Statement............................................ 6 Statement by Representative Donald S. Beyer, Jr., Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Oversight, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...................... 9 Written Statement............................................ 10 Statement by Representative Ralph Abraham, Vice Chairman, Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives........... 12 Written Statement............................................ 14 Statement by Representative Daniel Lipinski, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives........... 16 Written Statement............................................ 18 Statement by Representative Lamar S. Smith, Chairman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives................................................ 20 Written Statement............................................ 22 Witnesses: Mr. Salim Neino, Chief Executive Officer, Kryptos Logic Oral Statement............................................... 24 Written Statement............................................ 28 Dr. Charles H. Romine, Director, Information Technology Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology Oral Statement............................................... 33 Written Statement............................................ 35 Mr. Gregory J. Touhill, CISSP, CISM; Brigadier General, USAF (ret); Adjunct Professor, Cybersecurity & Risk Management, Carnegie Mellon University, Heinz College Oral Statement............................................... 44 Written Statement............................................ 46 Dr. Hugh Thompson, Chief Technology Officer, Symantec Oral Statement............................................... 54 Written Statement............................................ 56 Discussion....................................................... 64 Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions Dr. Charles H. Romine, Director, Information Technology Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology..... 82 Mr. Gregory J. Touhill, CISSP, CISM; Brigadier General, USAF (ret); Adjunct Professor, Cybersecurity & Risk Management, Carnegie Mellon University, Heinz College...................... 84 Dr. Hugh Thompson, Chief Technology Officer, Symantec............ 87 Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record Statement submitted by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Ranking Member, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.................................. 90 BOLSTERING THE GOVERNMENT'S CYBERSECURITY: LESSONS LEARNED FROM WANNACRY ---------- Thursday, June 15, 2017 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Oversight and Subcommittee on Research and Technology Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, Washington, D.C. The Subcommittees met, pursuant to call, at 10:05 a.m., in Room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Darin LaHood [Chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight] presiding. [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman LaHood. The Subcommittee on Oversight and the Subcommittee on Research and Technology will come to order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess of the Subcommittee at any time. Good morning, and welcome to today's hearing titled ``Bolstering the Government's Cybersecurity: Lessons Learned from WannaCry.'' I recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement. I want to welcome the witnesses here today, and I would also welcome Chairman Smith, Oversight Subcommittee Ranking Member Beyer, Research and Technology Subcommittee Vice Chairman Abraham, Research and Technology Ranking Member Lipinski, Members of the Subcommittees, our expert witnesses, and members of the audience. Cybersecurity--a concept we hear mentioned frequently, especially in this period of rapidly emerging threats--is an ever-evolving concept. Maintaining an effective cybersecurity posture requires constant vigilance as new threats emerge and old ones return. Too often, however, when we hear about the importance of cybersecurity, we are left without concrete steps to take to ensure our systems are best positioned to defend against emerging threats. One of the goals of today's hearing is to learn about real, tangible measures the government can take to ensure its IT security systems are appropriately reinforced to defend against new and emerging threats, including novel and sophisticated ransomware threats. The specific focus of today's hearing will be the recent WannaCry ransomware attack, a new type of ransomware infection, which affected over one million unique systems last month in a worldwide attack that impacted nearly every country in the world. Although the concept of ransomware is not new, the type of ransomware employed by WannaCry was novel. WannaCry worked by encrypting documents on a computer, instructing victims to pay $300 in Bitcoin in order to regain access to their user's documents. Unlike typical forms of ransomware, however, WannaCry signaled the ushering in of a new type of worming ransomware, which caused the attack to spread faster and more rapidly with each new infection. In light of the novelty built into WannaCry's method of attack, cybersecurity experts, including those we will hear from today, have expressed significant concerns that WannaCry is only a preview of a more sophisticated ransomware infection that many believe will inevitably be launched by hackers in the near future. Beginning May 12, 2017, the WannaCry ransomware infection moved rapidly across Asia and Europe, eventually hitting the United States. The attack infected 7,000 computers in the first hour and 110,000 distinct IP addresses in 2 days and in almost 100 countries, including the U.K., Russia, China, Ukraine, and India. Experts now believe WannaCry affected approximately 1 to 2 million unique systems worldwide prior to activating the kill switch. In Illinois, my home state, Cook County's IT systems were compromised by WannaCry, reportedly one of a few local governments subject to the attack. Although Cook County has worked to appropriately patch their systems, it is important that we ensure that all vulnerabilities are appropriately remedied in the event of a more sophisticated attack. Fortunately, the hackers responsible for WannaCry mistakenly included a kill switch, which was uncovered by an employee of Kryptos Logic and used to terminate the attack. The Kryptos Logic employee exploited a key mistake made by the hackers when he registered the domain connected to the ransomware attack. Experts estimate that the kill switch prevented 10 to 15 million unique worldwide system infections and reinfections. Although based on information available thus far the federal government's systems were fortunately spared from WannaCry, we want to ensure that the government is sufficiently prepared in the likely event of a more sophisticated attack. Additionally, the Committee wants to hear what Congress can do to appropriately address this Committee--I'm sorry--this climate of new and improving cybersecurity threats. Through the lens of the aftermath of WannaCry, today's witnesses will help shed light on key steps the government should take to ensure its systems are protected. We will also hear today about how public-private partnerships are an instrumental tool to help bolster the government's cybersecurity posture. Finally, we will learn about how the President's recent cybersecurity order, which makes NIST's cybersecurity framework mandatory on the Executive Branch, is a significant step toward ensuring the federal government's cybersecurity posture incorporates the most innovative security measures to defend against evolving threats. It is my hope that our discussions here today will highlight areas where improvement is necessary, while offering recommendations as we move forward to ensure the federal government is prepared to respond to emerging cybersecurity threats. I look forward to hearing from our distinguished witnesses. [The prepared statement of Chairman LaHood follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman LaHood. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Oversight Subcommittee, Mr. Beyer, for an opening statement. Mr. Beyer. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to thank you and Chairman Comstock for holding this hearing. Cybersecurity should be a chief concern for every government, business, and private citizen. In 2014, the Office of Personnel Management's information security systems, and two of the systems used by OPM contractors, were breached by state- sponsored hackers, compromising the personal information of millions of Americans. That same year, hackers released the personal information of Sony Pictures executives, embarrassing e-mails between Sony Pictures employees, and even copies of then-unreleased Sony movies. In 2015, hackers also took control of the power grid in western Ukraine and shut off power for over 200,000 residents. These three quick examples show the varied and widespread effects of cybersecurity breaches. So we know the cybersecurity breach that was the genesis for this hearing was the WannaCry outbreak. WannaCry ransomware infected at least 300,000 computers worldwide, and could have been much worse, so I want to thank CEO Neino, head of Kryptos Logic, for being wise enough to find an employee who found that kill switch, unless you did it yourself. And we're very lucky that that was found quickly, and we are fortunate that federal systems were resistant to WannaCry. But we know we may not be as lucky the next time. We must continue to strengthen our cybersecurity posture. By the way, in preparing for this, I've learned from our wonderful staff that I really need to upload our security upgrades every time we get a chance on our personal computers and on our smartphones. The May 11th Executive Order on strengthening the cybersecurity of federal networks seeks to build on the Obama Administration's successes in the cybersecurity arena, and I'm happy that the Trump Administration--I don't agree with them on every topic--but they've taken this next good step. The Executive Order calls for a host of actions and a myriad of reports on federal cybersecurity from every government agency. Simultaneously, the Trump Administration has been slow to fill newly vacant positions in nearly every government agency, and my concern is that understaffed agencies are going to have significant difficulty meeting the dictates of the Executive Order. Frankly, I'm also concerned that proposed budget cuts in the original Trump-Mulvaney budget across all agencies will make the task a lot harder to strengthen the security of federal information systems. We've got to make sure that the federal government has the resources and staffing to meet the need in this vital area. The Executive Order also calls for agencies to begin using the NIST Framework for cybersecurity efforts, and I'm glad that we have NIST here with us today. They play a very important role in setting cybersecurity standards that could help thwart and impede cyber-attacks. You know, NIST is world renowned for its expertise in standards development, and federal agencies will be well served by using the NIST Framework. On a precautionary note, though, I believe some efforts to expand NIST's cybersecurity role beyond their current mission and expertise are well intentioned but perhaps misplaced. We recently had a debate of H.R. 1224 here, the ``NIST Cybersecurity Framework, Assessment, and Auditing Act of 2017,'' which gives NIST auditing authority for all federal civilian information systems. Currently, this is a responsibility of the Inspector Generals at each agency. They have the statutory authority, the experience, the expertise. They respond directly, responsible to Congress. NIST has no such experience or expertise, and I at least remain concerned about this proposal, and I'd be interested in any of the expert witnesses' thoughts on NIST's role in cybersecurity and auditing. So I look forward to hearing from all of you today. I especially look forward to hearing from our General, the former federal CISO, about his experience in these positions and thoughts. One final note. Bloomberg reported this week that the Russian meddling in our electoral system was far worse than what's been previously reported. According to the report, hackers attempted to delete or alter voter data, accessed software designed to be used by poll workers, and, in at least one instance, accessed a campaign finance database. These efforts didn't need to change individual votes in order to influence the election, and we really should take these sorts of cyber threats very seriously. I think Vice President Cheney called this a war on our democracy. So Mr. Chairman, this Committee held more than a half dozen hearings on cybersecurity issues during the last Congress, including one on protecting the 2016 elections from cyber and voting machine attacks, so given what we now know about the hacking and meddling in 2016, I hope that this hearing today will be a precursor to more hearings on how we can better protect our voting systems. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much, and I yield back. [The prepared statement of Mr. Beyer follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Beyer, for your opening statement. I now recognize the Vice Chair of the Research and Technology Subcommittee, Mr. Abraham, for an opening statement. Mr. Abraham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over the last few years, we've seen an alarming increase in the number and intensity of our cyber-attacks. These attacks by cyber criminals and by unfriendly governments have compromised the personal information of millions of Americans, jeopardized thousands of our businesses and their employees, and threatened interruption of critical public services. The recent WannaCry ransomware attack demonstrates that cyber-attacks are continuing to go from bad to worse. This most recent large-scale cyber-attack affected more than one to two million systems in more than 190 countries. Nevertheless, it appears that the impact could have been much more catastrophic considering how fast that ransomware spread. And while organizations and individuals within the United States were largely unscathed, due in part to a security researcher identifying a web-based ``kill switch,'' the potential destructiveness of WannaCry warns us to expect similar attacks in the future. Before those attacks happen, we need to make sure that our information systems are very ready. During a Research and Technology Subcommittee hearing earlier this year, a witness representing the U.S. Government Accountability Office--the GAO--testified, and I quote, ``Over the past several years, GAO has made about 2,500 recommendations to federal agencies to enhance their information security programs and controls. As of February 2017, about 1,000 recommendations had not been implemented.'' It is clear that the status quo in federal government cyber security is a virtual invitation for more cyber-attacks. We must take strong steps in order to properly secure our systems and databases before another cyber-attack like WannaCry happens and puts our government up for ransom. On March 1, 2017, this Committee approved H.R. 1224, the NIST Cybersecurity Framework, Assessment, and Auditing Act of 2017, a bill that I introduced as part of my ongoing interest over the state of our nation's cybersecurity. This bill takes concrete steps to help strengthen federal government cybersecurity. The most important steps are encouraging federal agencies to adopt the National Institute of Standards and Technology's (NIST) Cybersecurity Framework, which is used by many private businesses, and directing NIST to initiate individual cybersecurity audits of priority federal agencies to determine the extent to which each agency is meeting the information security standards developed by the Institute. NIST's in-house experts develop government-wide technical standards and guidelines under the Federal Information Security Modernization Act of 2014. And NIST experts also developed, through collaborations between government and private sector, the Framework for Improving Critical Infrastructure Cybersecurity that federal agencies are now required to use pursuant to the President's recent Cybersecurity Executive Order. I was very pleased to read that language. Considering the growing attempts to infiltrate information systems, there is an urgent need to assure Americans that all federal agencies are doing everything that they can to protect government networks and sensitive data. The status quo simply is not working. We can't put up with more bureaucratic excuses and delays. NIST's cyber expertise is a singular asset. We should take full advantage of that asset, starting with the very important step of annual NIST cyber audits of high priority federal agencies. As cyber-attacks and cyber criminals continue to evolve and become more sophisticated, our government's cyber defenses must also adapt in order to protect vital public services and shield hundreds of millions of Americans' confidential information. We will hear from our witnesses today about lessons learned from the WannaCry attack and how the government can bolster the security of its systems. We must keep in mind that the next cyber-attack is just around the corner, and it could have a far greater impact than what we have seen thus far. Our federal government--our government systems need to be better protected, and that starts with more accountability, responsibility, and transparency by federal agencies. Thank you, and I look forward to hearing our panel. [The prepared statement of Mr. Abraham follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Abraham. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Research and Technology Subcommittee, my colleague from Illinois, Mr. Lipinski, for an opening statement. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you, Chairman LaHood, and I want to thank you and Vice Chair Abraham for holding this hearing on cybersecurity and lessons learned from the WannaCry ransomware attack last month. The good news is that U.S. government information systems were not negatively impacted by the WannaCry attack. This was a clear victory for our cyber defenses. However, I believe there are lessons to be learned from successes as well as failures. A combination of factors likely contributed to this success, including getting rid of most of our outdated Windows operating systems, diligently installing security patches, securing critical IT assets, and maintaining robust network perimeter defenses. As we know, Microsoft sent out a security patch for this vulnerability in March, two months before the WannaCry attack. These and other factors played a role in minimizing damage to U.S. businesses as well. However, WannaCry and its impact on other countries serves as yet another reminder that we must never be complacent in our cybersecurity defenses. The threats are ever evolving, and our policies must be robust yet flexible enough to allow our defenses to evolve accordingly. The Federal Information Security Modernization Act, or FISMA, laid out key responsibilities for the security of civilian information systems. Under FISMA, DHS and OMB have central roles in development and implementation of policies as well as in incident tracking and response. NIST develops and updates security standards and guidelines both informing and responsive to the policies established by OMB. Each agency is responsible for its own FISMA compliance, and each Office of Inspector General is required to audit its own agency's compliance with FISMA on an annual basis. We must continue to support agencies in their efforts to be compliant with FISMA while conducting careful oversight. In 2014, NIST released the Cybersecurity Framework for Critical Infrastructure, which is currently being updated to Framework Version 1.1. While it is still too early to evaluate its full impact, it appears the Framework is being widely used across industry sectors. Our Committee recently reported out a bipartisan bill, H.R. 2105, that I was pleased to cosponsor, that would ensure that the Cybersecurity Framework is easily usable by our nation's small businesses. I hope we can get it to the President's desk quickly. In the meantime, the President's recent cybersecurity Executive Order directs federal agencies to use the Framework to manage their own cybersecurity risk. As we have heard in prior hearings, many experts have called for this step, and I applaud the Administration for moving ahead. I join Mr. Beyer in urging the Administration to fill the many vacant positions across our agencies that would be responsible for implementing the Framework as well as shepherding the myriad reports required by the Executive Order. Finally, I will take this opportunity to express my disappointment in the Administration's budget proposal for NIST. The top-line budget cut of 25 percent was so severe that if it were implemented, NIST would have no choice but to reduce its cybersecurity efforts. This represents the epitome of penny-wise, pound-foolish decision making. NIST is among the best of the best when it comes to cybersecurity research and standards, and our modest taxpayer investment in their efforts helps secure the information systems not just of our federal government, but our entire economy. I trust that my colleagues will join me in ensuring that NIST receives robust funding in the fiscal year 2018 budget and doesn't suffer the drastic cut requested by the President. Thank you to the expert witnesses for being here this morning, and I look forward to your testimony. I yield back. [The prepared statement of Mr. Lipinski follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Lipinski. At this time I now recognize the Chairman of the full Committee, Mr. Smith. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your holding this hearing as well as the Research and Technology Subcommittee Vice Chairman sitting next to me, Ralph Abraham, for holding the hearing as well. In the wake of last month's WannaCry ransomware attack, today's hearing is a necessary part of an important conversation the federal government must have as we look for ways to improve our federal cybersecurity posture. While WannaCry failed to compromise federal government systems, it is almost certain that outcome was due in part to a measure of chance. Rather than seeing this outcome as a sign of bulletproof cybersecurity defenses, we must instead increase our vigilance to better identify constantly evolving cybersecurity threats. This is particularly true since many cyber experts predict that we will experience an attack similar to WannaCry that is more sophisticated in nature, carrying with it an even greater possibility of widespread disruption and destruction. Congress should not allow cybersecurity to be ignored across government agencies. I am proud of the work the Committee has accomplished to improve the federal government's cybersecurity posture. During the last Congress, the Committee conducted investigations into the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Internal Revenue Service, and the Office of Personnel Management, as well as passed key legislation aimed at providing the government with the tools it needs to strengthen its cybersecurity posture. President Trump understands the importance of bolstering our cybersecurity. He signed a recent Executive Order on cybersecurity, which is a vital step towards ensuring the federal government is positioned to detect, deter, and defend against emerging threats. Included in the President's Executive Order is a provision mandating that Executive Branch departments and agencies implement NIST's Cybersecurity Framework. While continuously updating its Cybersecurity Framework, NIST takes into account innovative cybersecurity measures from its private-sector partners. NIST's collaborative efforts help to ensure that those entities that follow the Framework are aware of the most pertinent, effective, and cutting-edge cybersecurity measures. I strongly believe the President's decision to make NIST's Framework mandatory for the federal government will serve to strengthen the government's ability to defend its systems against advanced cyber threats like with the recent WannaCry ransomware attack. Similarly, the Committee's NIST Cybersecurity Framework, Assessment, and Auditing Act of 2017, sponsored by Representative Abraham, draws on findings from the Committee's numerous hearings and investigations related to cybersecurity, which underscore the immediate need for a rigorous approach to protecting U.S. cybersecurity infrastructure and capabilities. Like the President's recent Executive Order, this legislation promotes federal use of the NIST Cybersecurity Framework by providing guidance that agencies may use to incorporate the Framework into risk mitigation efforts. Additionally, the bill directs NIST to establish a working group with the responsibility of developing key metrics for federal agencies to use. I hope that our discussions here today will highlight distinct areas where cybersecurity improvement is necessary, while offering recommendations to ensure cybersecurity objectives stay at the forefront of our national security policy discussions. And with that, I'll yield back, Mr. Chairman. [The prepared statement of Chairman Smith follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Chairman Smith. At this time let me introduce our witnesses here today. Our first witness is Mr. Salim Neino, Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Kryptos Logic. Mr. Neino is credited with discovering new solutions for companies such as IBM, Dell, Microsoft, and Avaya. He received his bachelor's degree in computer science from California State University at Long Beach. A Kryptos Logic employee, as we've discussed, in the U.K. is credited with largely stopping the WannaCry attack. We'll hear more about that during Mr. Neino's testimony today. Our second witness today is Dr. Charles Romine, Director of the Information Technology Laboratory at NIST. Dr. Romine received both his bachelor's degree in mathematics and his Ph.D. in applied mathematics from the University of Virginia. Our third witness, Mr. Touhill, is a retired Brigadier General in the United States Air Force. He is currently an Adjunct Professor of Cybersecurity and Risk Management at Carnegie Mellon University. Previously, he was chosen by President Obama to serve as the Nation's Chief Information Security Officer. Mr. Touhill received his bachelor's degree from Penn State University and a master's degree in systems management and information systems from the University of South--I'm sorry--Southern California. And our final witness today is Dr. Hugh Thompson, Chief Technology Officer for Symantec. Dr. Thompson also serves as an Advisory Board Member for the Anti-Malware Testing Standards Organization and on the Editorial Board of IEEE Security and Privacy magazine. Dr. Thompson received his bachelor's degree and master's degree and Ph.D. in applied mathematics from the Florida Institute of Technology. We're glad you're all here today and look forward to your valuable testimony. I now recognize Dr. Neino for five minutes to present his testimony. TESTIMONY OF MR. SALIM NEINO, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, KRYPTOS LOGIC Mr. Neino. Thank you, Chairman. Chairman LaHood, Vice Chairman Abraham, Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Beyer, and Ranking Member Lipinski, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today at this joint Subcommittee hearing. We greatly appreciate your interest in cybersecurity and look forward to sharing our thoughts and perspectives with you and your members. On May 12, 2017, Kryptos Logic identified a high-velocity, high-impact global security threat with the immediate potential to cause an immeasurable amount of damage. While the intent of this threat was unclear and its motives and origins ambiguous, it was immediately evident that its approach was unusually reckless. This threat has now popularly become known as ``WannaCry.'' It was at this time that Marcus Hutchins, our Director of Threat Intelligence for Kryptos Logic's Vantage, our breach monitoring platform, notified me of our team's active monitoring of the developing situation. On this date at approximately 10:00 a.m. Eastern time, while investigating the code of WannaCry, we identified what looked like an anti- detection mechanism, which tested for the existence of a certain random-looking domain name. Our team proceeded to register the domain associated to this mechanism and directed it to one of the sinkholes controlled by and hosted on the Kryptos Logic network infrastructure. We then noticed and confirmed that the propagation of the WannaCry attack had come to a standstill because of what we refer to as its kill switch having been activated by our domain registration. While our efforts effectively stopped the attack, and prevented WannaCry from continuing to deploy its ransom component, we knew that by then the attack had already propagated freely for many hours, at minimum. Based on the velocity of the attack, estimated by sampling data we collected from our infrastructure currently blocking the attack, we believe had that anywhere between 1 to 2 million systems may have been affected in the hours prior to activating the kill switch, contrary to the widely reported and more conservative estimate of 200,000 systems. One month after registering the kill-switch domain, we have mitigated over 60 million infection attempts. Approximately 7 million of those in the United States, and we estimate that these could have impacted at minimum 10 to 15 million unique systems. I will note that the largest attack we thwarted and measured to date from WannaCry was not on May 12th or 13th when the attack started, but began suddenly on June 8th and 9th on a well-funded hospital in the east coast of the United States. It is very likely the health system is still unaware of the event. We measured approximately 275,000 thwarted infection attempts within a 2-day period. Another hospital was also hit on May 30th in another part of the country. A high school in the Midwest was just hit at the beginning of June 9th. Presumably every system at this location would have had its data held hostage if not for Kryptos Logic's kill switch. Moreover, Kryptos Logic has been under constant attack by unidentified attackers attempting to knock our systems offline, thus disabling the kill switch and further propagating the attack. The earlier of these attacks came by the well-known Mirai botnet which took down large portions of the United Kingdom, Germany and parts of the East Coast of the United States earlier this year. Despite these attempts, our systems remained resilient and we increased counter-intelligence measures to mitigate the amplitude of the attacks against us. We believe the success of WannaCry illustrates two key facts about our nation's systems: Vulnerabilities exist at virtually every level of our computer infrastructure, ranging from operating systems to browsers, from media players to Internet routers. Exploiting and weaponizing such vulnerabilities has a surprisingly low entry barrier: anyone can join in, including rogue teenagers, nation states, and everyone in between. So, how do we adapt and overcome/mitigate these weaknesses? While many cybersecurity experts who have come before me offer the usual gloomy ``there are no silver bullets,'' I've had the opportunity to play on both fronts; on offense, via penetration testing and red team competitions, and on defense, providing protection to Global 100 organizations with very high enterprise risks. Our attack responses must be more agile and with higher velocity and intensity. While the nation has considerable literature on risk, maturity models and various frameworks, the actual resources for cyber defense are scarce as there simply is not presently an adequate level of highly skilled, highly experienced, and highly available operators in the cybersecurity field. While there is no shortage of good ideas which claim to be able to solve an infinite amount of problems, every subsequent idea needs development, support, testing, maintenance, et cetera, all of which we characterize as developer debt. Unfortunately, many of these solutions take too long to procure and end up being outdated and essentially useless before the ink dries on the paper it is written on. I am optimistic, however, that there is a successful path and strategy forward. Application and software-level mitigations which protect against the exploitation techniques used by hackers have moved the needle to protect against exploitation of the very fabric on which we build our defense assumptions. Mitigations able and incomplete are nonetheless effective and have increased the cost of identifying vulnerabilities in systems and developing programs to exploit them. Other mitigations include various design approaches like compartmentalization of data, systems and transmissions. Such mitigations have measurably raised the bar required for mass exploitation in critical communications software like Internet browsers, web servers, and other protocols which are fundamental to business continuity. Investing in technology doesn't necessarily guarantee any actual improvement. In fact, one could argue that introducing more technology stack exacerbates the maintenance debt and creates immediate monetary loss because there are few metrics or analytics to actually measure the effectiveness of any particular technology. This is because we are typically years behind the attack in terms of the sword and shield battle. As these resources ebb and flow, knowledge gaps are created and the loss of a domain knowledge specialists who cannot immediately fill these gaps and replace them. We also must be less risk averse in terms of the defensive operations we undertake, more open to failure, and ready to adapt and learn from these failures. We need a stronger focus on threat modeling and fire-drill simulations that will be focused on the events of a magnitude which would cause significant damage. A significant response with the WannaCry incident was that there was no real guidance or course of action that was well communicated. The media focused on the points contrary to defense--whodunit?--and this incident could have resulted in a complete breakdown of processes had this been an unpatched zero-day vulnerability and there was no luxury of a kill switch. The largest success, though incomplete, was the ability for the FBI and the NCSC of the United Kingdom to aggregate and disseminate the information Kryptos Logic provided so that affected organizations could respond. Information sharing can be valuable but our framework can be vastly improved by triaging cybersecurity threats and events of magnitude in a clear and repeatable scale, not too dissimilar to the Richter scale, which measures the energy released in an earthquake. Likewise, a scale that takes the technical and social elements of a threat into account to evaluate its destructive power enables first responders--us--to better organize and mobilize focus on the most important areas of risk. While there do exist various scoring systems for evaluating the purely technical element of a threat, they fall short in terms of clear and actionable information outside of information technology. We focus too much on application- specific vulnerabilities with abstruse names like MS17-010, and none of these values are effective in quantifying the overall impact potential of a wider global environment. We need an easier-to-grasp method of prioritizing threats that have a large-scale destructive potential in context, like WannaCry. To this end, once we have determined a method to evaluate the risks with respect to the aforementioned technical and contextual specifics, we can do--we can apply the appropriate mitigations. In conclusion, one of the largest issues is the transitory nature of a crisis. This message still has not resonated of the destructive potential of these attacks and the importance of its awareness. We think this can be explained simply by the fact organizations are too slow to adapt to such a volatile landscape, there is a vast human resource shortage, and little by way of metrics to demonstrate return on investment in defensive technologies. Again, I thank the Subcommittee for inviting me to appear today to discuss Kryptos Logic's involvement in lessons learned for WannaCry, and I welcome the opportunity to answer any questions you may have when they're fielded. [The prepared statement of Mr. Neino follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Neino. I now recognize Dr. Romine for five minutes to present his testimony. TESTIMONY OF DR. CHARLES H. ROMINE, DIRECTOR, INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY LABORATORY, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY Dr. Romine. Chairmen LaHood and Abraham, Chairman Smith, Ranking Members Beyer and Lipinski, and members of the Subcommittees, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss NIST's key roles in cybersecurity and how they relate to recent incidents. In the area of cybersecurity, NIST has worked with federal agencies, industry and academic since 1972 starting with the development of the Data Encryption Standard when the potential commercial benefit of this technology became clear. NIST's role to research, develop, and deploy information security standards and technology to protect the federal government's information systems against threats to the confidentiality, integrity, and availability of information and services was recently reaffirmed in the Federal Information Security Modernization Act of 2014. NIST provides resources to assist organizations in preventing or, at least, quickly recovering from ransomware attacks with trust that the recovered data are accurate, complete, and free of malware, and that the recovered system is trustworthy and capable. NIST's Guide for Cybersecurity Event Recovery provides guidance to help organizations plan and prepare for recovery from a cyber event and integrate the processes and procedures into their enterprise risk management plans. The Guide discusses hypothetical cyber-attack scenarios including one focused on ransomware and steps taken to recover from the attack. Three years ago, NIST issued the Framework for Improving Critical Infrastructure Cybersecurity, or the Framework. The Framework created through tight collaboration between industry and government consists of voluntary standards, guidelines and practices to promote the protection of critical infrastructure. In the case of WannaCry and similar ransomware, the Framework prompts decisions affecting infection by the ransomware, propagation of the ransomware, and recovery from it. While the Framework does not prescribe a baseline of cybersecurity for organizations, for instance, a baseline that would have prevented WannaCry, it does prompt a sequence of interrelated cybersecurity risk management decisions, which should help prevent virus infection and propagation and support expeditious response and recovery activities. On May 11th, President Trump signed Executive Order 13800, strengthening the cybersecurity of federal networks and critical infrastructure that mandated federal agencies to use the Framework. Under the Executive Order, every federal agency or department will need to manage their cybersecurity risk by using the framework and provide a risk management report to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget and to the Secretary of Homeland Security. On May 12th, NIST released a draft interagency report, the Cybersecurity Framework Implementation Guidance for Federal Agencies, which provides guidance on how the Framework can be used in the United States Federal Government in conjunction with the current and planned suite of NIST security and privacy risk management standards, guidelines and practices developed in response to the Federal Information Security Management Act, as amended, or FISMA. Another NIST resource that can assist system administrators in protecting against similar future attacks is the most recent release of the NIST National Software Reference Library, or NSRL. The NSRL provides a collection of software from various sources and unique file profiles, which is most often used by law enforcement, government, and industry organizations to review files on a computer by matching the profiles in the system. NIST maintains a repository of all known and publicly reported IT vulnerabilities such as the one exploited by the WannaCry malware. The repository, called the National Vulnerability Database, or NVD, is an authoritative source of standardized information on security vulnerabilities that NIST updates dozens of times daily. NIST analyzes and provides a common severity metric to each identified security vulnerability. NIST recently initiated a project at our National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence, or NCCOE, on data integrity specifically focused on recovering from cyber-attacks. Organizations will be able to use the results of the NCCOE research to recover trusted backups, roll back data to a known good state, alert administrators when there is a change to a critical system, and restore services quickly after a WannaCry- like cyber-attack. NIST is extremely proud of its role in establishing and improving the comprehensive set of cybersecurity technical solutions, standards, and guidelines to address cyber threats in general and ransomware in particular. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on NIST's work in cybersecurity and in preventing ransomware attacks. I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have. [The prepared statement of Dr. Romine follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Dr. Romine. I now recognize Mr. Touhill for five minutes to present his testimony. TESTIMONY OF MR. GREGORY J. TOUHILL, CISSP, CISM; BRIGADIER GENERAL, USAF (RET); ADJUNCT PROFESSOR, CYBERSECURITY & RISK MANAGEMENT, CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY, HEINZ COLLEGE General Touhill. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman LaHood, Chairman Smith, Vice Chairman Abraham, Ranking Member Beyer, Ranking Member Lipinski, and members of the Committee. Thank you very much for the opportunity to appear today to discuss cyber risk management. I'm retired Air Force Brigadier General Greg Touhill. I currently serve on the faculty of Carnegie Mellon University's Heinz College, where I instruct on cybersecurity and risk management. Prior to my current appointment, I served as the United States Chief Information Security Officer, and before that in the United States Department of Homeland Security, where I served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Cybersecurity and Communications. During that period, I also served as the Director of the National Cybersecurity and Communications Integration Center, which is commonly referred to by its acronym, NCCIC. During my Air Force career, I served as one of the Air Force's first cyberspace operations officers, and I currently maintain both the Certified Information Systems Security Professional and Certified Information Security Manager professional certifications. Cybersecurity is a risk management issue. However, many people mistakenly view it solely as a technology concern. Cybersecurity indeed is a multidisciplinary risk management issue and is an essential part of an enterprise risk management program. I recognize we have a very full agenda of topics today, and I'm sensitive to your time. I have submitted for the record a written statement, and in that statement, I discuss the recent WannaCry attack and my assessment of how future attacks may impact the public and private sectors. In short, I view WannaCry as a slow-pitched softball whereas the next one may be a high-and-tight fastball coming in. We need to be ready. I also discuss and share recommendations on topics the Committee has identified for today's agenda including the President's recent Cybersecurity Executive Order, public and private sector partnerships, the Cybersecurity Framework, and proposed legislation. In short, on that I urge the Congress to continue its great efforts to strengthen our enterprise risk posture. I urge you to authorize and empower the federal Chief Information Security Officer position, which currently is not an authorized or specified position. I also suggest that instead of calling it the NIST Cybersecurity Framework--and I'm a huge fan of this Framework--I suggest we start calling it the National Cybersecurity Framework to reinforce the fact that it applies to everyone, and further, NIST did a brilliant job in crowdsourcing the development of this framework but it was really people from around the country that brought to the table best practices. NIST was a great trail boss for this but it really is a national cybersecurity framework. And then finally, in regards to the proposed H.R. 1224 legislation, I congratulate the Committee and the Members of the Congress for taking the initiative to really reinforce the need to implement the Framework across the federal government. I do suggest, based upon my experience in both the military and the government sectors of the federal government, that we do two things with that Act. One is we amend that Act to make it apply to national security systems as well. Having served extensively in the military and in the federal government, I believe that the National Cybersecurity Framework applies equally to national security systems, and I recommend that you make that amendment. Further, I concur with my colleagues who suggest that let's leverage the Inspector General and auditing communities that are currently in the different departments and agencies and reinforce their need to conduct appropriate audits using that Cybersecurity Framework. Again, I thank you for inviting me to discuss cyber risk management with you today, and I look forward to addressing any questions you may have. [The prepared statement of General Touhill follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Touhill. I now recognize Dr. Thompson for five minutes to present his testimony. TESTIMONY OF DR. HUGH THOMPSON, CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER, SYMANTEC Mr. Thompson. Good morning. Thanks for having me, and Chairman LaHood, Vice Chairman Abraham, Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Lipinski, and Ranking Member Beyer, I really appreciate the opportunity to be here today to talk about what is a critical subject. Understanding the current threat environment is essential to crafting good policy and effective defenses, and last month's WannaCry ransomware attack is just one of the latest manifestations of the kinds of disruptive attacks that we are now facing. The timeline of WannaCry I think has been well covered by the other folks on this panel, but I did want to share with you a graphical timeline that hopefully you can see in the monitor. Apologies for the small print. What's interesting I think about that and where I'd like to add some color is to give you Symantec's perspective on the events as they unfolded, and to give you some context, Symantec is the world's largest cybersecurity company with technology protecting over 90 percent of the Fortune 500 and being used extensively by government agencies around the world. In addition, we protect tens of millions of home users through our Norton and LifeLock branded products. The threat telemetry we get from these deployments represents the largest civilian threat intelligence network in the world. WannaCry was unique and dangerous because of how quickly it could spread. It was the first ransomware as a worm that had such a rapid global impact. Once on a system, it propagated autonomously by exploiting a vulnerability in Microsoft Windows. After gaining access to a computer, WannaCry installs the ransomware package. This payload works in the same fashion as most crypto-ransomware. It finds and encrypts a range of files and then displays essentially a ransom note to victims demanding payment, this time in Bitcoin. Symantec worked closely with the U.S. Government from the first hours of the outbreak. We connected DHS researchers with our experts, provided indicators of compromise and analysis to DHS, and received the same back. During the outbreak, DHS had twice- daily calls with private sector to coordinate operational activities. From our perspective, this was one of the most successful public-private collaborations that we've been involved in. Our analysis of WannaCry revealed that some of the tools and infrastructure it used have strong links to a group referred to as Lazarus by the security community, which the FBI has connected with North Korea. Lazarus was linked to the destructive attacks against Sony Pictures in 2014 and also the theft of approximately $81 million from the Bangladesh Central Bank last year. The links we saw between WannaCry and Lazarus included shared code, the reuse of IP addresses, and similar code obfuscation techniques. As a result, we believe it is highly likely that the Lazarus group was behind the spread of WannaCry. Beyond WannaCry, the threat landscape continues to evolve very quickly. We're seeing attacks become more sophisticated, not just in technology but in social engineering approaches that these attacks use. We're also seeing more attacks being leveraged against IOT devices such as the massive weaponization of IOT devices that we saw the Mirai botnet last fall. Mirai launched one of the largest distributed denial-of-service attacks on record and led to significant disruption of major cloud services. The explosive growth of attacks like WannaCry and Mirai I think underscores the need for preparation and deploying integrated and layered defenses. These attacks also show the response and recovery planning and tools is an essential part of cyber risk management because when good defenses will stop many attacks, we have to be prepared that a determined adversary may get through those initial defenses and we must lay a foundation for recovery. There's no question that WannaCry was an important event but unfortunately, it will not be the last of its kind. In fact, it's more likely an indicator of what's to come. Good fortune played a significant role in minimizing its impact, particularly in the United States, but we will not always have luck on our side, which is why we must learn the lessons of WannaCry and make the necessary improvements to our defenses and response capabilities. This hearing is an important part of that effort, and we appreciate the opportunity to be here. I look forward to answering any questions that you may have. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Thompson follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Dr. Thompson, and thank all the witnesses for your testimony. The Chair recognizes himself for five minutes, and we'll begin questioning. As I talked about in the beginning, the title of this hearing today is ``Lessons Learned from WannaCry,'' and we've talked a lot this morning about WannaCry and how that played out across the world, but in terms of what we've learned about the genesis and origin of where this came from, I know the Washington Post came out with an article yesterday that the NSA has linked the WannaCry computer worm to North Korea. I'm wondering if, Dr. Neino, you can talk a little bit about the genesis and origin of where this came from, particularly because it appears it's from a nation-state, and I know there's references to what occurred with Sony Pictures and also with the Bangladesh Bank, and what we know about it and what's being implemented I guess on the government side to prevent this or hold an entity or the government accountable. Mr. Neino. Thank you, Chairman. I think if I understand your question, you're asking about, one, the origin, and our conjecture to that, and number two, perhaps, if I understood also correctly, what would be the rules of engagement for something like that if it was another nation-state. While I may not be--while we think it's ambiguous to conjecture over the origins of WannaCry, there are tails of code in there that suggest one way or another that some nation-state could have been responsible. Unfortunately, and as I said in my written testimony, anyone could have created this level of attack, and often misdirection is found typically in binaries like these attacks we see. I would compare it perhaps an analogy to photoshopping a program to look a certain way or it could have simply just been what it is, which is exactly what we see. It's hard to tell so we won't--I won't say that I know the origin of the attack nor should I conjecture on it but what I can say is that these attacks are very difficult to attribute, and Kryptos Logic is a cybersecurity company, not an intelligence agency, so it would be very difficult for us to pursue an answer to that. As far as rules of engagement, I also think that the question segues the same way. It would be difficult to create attribution or origin to any attack and therefore rules of engagement would be very difficult for us to give any kind of assessment on. Chairman LaHood. Dr. Thompson? Mr. Thompson. This was truly an interesting attack. We spend a lot of time in our research labs looking at both the code that was used in WannaCry but also where WannaCry communicated out to, and there were very, very close similarities to other kinds of attacks that we've seen, specifically attacks that we attribute to a group called Lazarus, and these attacks, this malware, the reuse of strings in that malware, the reuse of command-and-control infrastructure out on the internet by that malware led our researchers to believe that this is strongly linked to the Lazarus group. Now, similar to my colleague on the end, we're not the intelligence community either, and I agree with those comments that attribution is often difficult, but what we've seen leads us to believe that it was a part of this Lazarus Group and separately the FBI has linked the Lazarus group with North Korea, and I think, Chairman LaHood, the article that you're referring to from yesterday is another potential evidence point on that as well from the NSA. Chairman LaHood. Thank you. Dr. Neino, we talked about the kill switch and how that stopped the attack, but we also reference the fact that last week a hospital on the East Coast and a high school were subject to attack. Can you explain how if the kill switch was implemented correctly, how the hackers responsible for WannaCry were able to continue to perpetuate the attack despite the registration of the kill switch. Mr. Neino. Absolutely. Although I'd like to be a doctor, it's Mr. Neino. So you have to understand the material makeup of the actual malware and how it works. Why WannaCry was so significant is that it's self-propagating. That's what gives it the title a worm, if you will, meaning the actors don't need to even be in existence, and sometimes we refer to these things as zombies, zombie botnets, because they continue to proliferate regardless of the actors or parents or creators of the particular attack. In the case of the examples I gave in the testimony regarding the health system, of which there are many, that was just, let's say, a corner case that was very significant. The worm continues to propagate because it is scanning and seeking to expand itself, and that portion of the worm is not subject to the kill switch so its expansion and spreading which in effect is still exploiting systems worldwide. What it's not triggering is the payload, if you will, the ransom component, and that component therefore doesn't trigger. Most of these organizations worldwide right don't know they're getting actively exploited still because it's because they don't see the ransom portion of it, so that's why we have 60 million attacks thwarted to date, if not more, and just nobody knows it's still happening, and that's why I said it was--I don't think the message has resonated given those figures that this still needs to be patched and this again points to the point of resources. Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Neino. I'm out of time. I will yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Beyer. Mr. Beyer. Thank you, Chairman LaHood, very much, and I'm so impressed by our panel today. There's so much information here, and I congratulate Dr. Romine and Dr. Thompson for being Ph.D. mathematicians. That's wonderful. Jerry McNerney was here just a little while ago, a Member of Congress, who's I believe our only mathematician in Congress. And Mr. Neino, congratulations on winning the hacking tournament. I never had a chance to say that before, but that's very cool. And General Touhill, it's very cool that you're now after all the things you've done in your life, combat and diplomacy and first CISO to be up there at Carnegie Mellon with their buggy races around Chandlee Park. Every university has something that makes them cooler than everyplace else. And General, I want to start with you. You talked in your long written testimony about H.R. 1224 cosponsored by--a bipartisan bill here, but we have expressed a lot of concern about the audit function that NIST would be asked to take on, and I was particularly fascinated by your points which we didn't raise when we had the hearing here that it would make it much more difficult for NIST to be viewed as an honest broker that this would change their perceptions about the current and future roles and have a chilling effect on many of the relationships that NIST has within government and industry that a lot of these relationships are, quote, unquote, learning relationships based on a common quest to identify and incorporate best practices, and NIST would change those relationships and not in a good way. It might inhibit or stifle the free exchange of information from public and private entities to NIST. Can you expand on that at all? This seems to be a pretty powerful argument against that audit function. General Touhill. Yes, sir. You know, frankly, I'm a fan of the intent of the legislation. Section 20(a) in making sure that folks are in fact using the Cybersecurity Framework across federal government I think is brilliant. We need to follow through on that big time, and frankly, it was something I was promoting while I was the United States Chief Information Security Officer. As a matter of fact, in my last federal Chief Information Security Officer Council meeting in January of this year, I proposed and we had a unanimous vote amongst the council to do a risk assessment for the federal government based on the Framework. That portion of the legislation I'm wholly supportive of. Section 20(b), the proposal to do the auditing and compliance activities, I'm also a fan of. I think it's important that we do auditing and compliance. However, I do stand by what I wrote in the written testimony that I think that NIST is not the best place to put that. It doesn't have the culture, it doesn't have the mission, it doesn't have the personnel to do it as effectively as the existing Inspector General and auditing functions. And from a practical standpoint, NIST is a great organization that I've been working with for the last 35-plus years, and the relationships that NIST has is in fact as a neutral party that is on the quest to choreograph efforts to find the best ways of doing things. An auditing function or a compliance function on the other hand is looking to see if you are in fact following the checklist. I think that if we want to have an auditing and compliance function, which I definitely think that we should be doing, we should be giving direction to those folks whose job it is to do that auditing and compliance function. Frankly, this is an operational issue, and Inspector Generals have always been in my book the folks that do performance inspections, that are the ones that are going to help those commanders in the field in the military as well as the executives in the federal government do their job better and have better visibility into their risk posture. I believe we need to have the Inspector Generals and auditing functions that are currently in place be the ones who execute the intent of the Committee and the Congress. Mr. Beyer. Thank you, General, very much. Mr. Neino, based on your testimony, you should be a doctor. It's filled with really interesting things, and your three-part conclusion that the largest issues were A, that organizations are too slow to adapt; B, that we have a vast human resource shortage; and C, there are little by way of metrics to demonstrate return on investment, and you talk about creating a method to prioritize threats, something like the Richter Scale, magnitude and a clear and repeatable scale. Who should put this together? Who should manage it? Who should maintain it? How do we make this happen? Mr. Neino. I think it would be interesting to see NIST participation in something of this where it's basically crowdsourced through various academics and commercial and private entities that could look together and see how they're prioritizing risks and threats, and then see if that could be in some way put into some sort of simulation system that allows to be scalable where people as a resource is not scalable, technology can be, and that would be an effective area. I also see that the commercial sector alone can produce that as well and that could be adopted, but I think that any time you have some sort of regulatory mandate, it's taken much more seriously, and what I mean by that is, for instance, if we had an event of magnitude that was measured and if we put an arbitrary number on WannaCry, let's say it was a 7.5 magnitude by some arbitrary figure, shouldn't that particular event be required to be fixed by organizations whereas right now it's mostly voluntarily. So if a water system or a power grid doesn't fix it even after WannaCry, shouldn't we see that sort of mandate where we can know that that is regulated because that event of magnitude has context versus you can't boil the ocean when it comes to patching vulnerabilities. We're not going to win that war; it's infinite. But we should be able to win the war of at least the attacks we know about. Mr. Beyer. Thank you very much. Mr. Chair, I yield back. Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Beyer. I now recognize Vice Chairman Abraham. Mr. Abraham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also stand in awe of the brain cell power on our panel. We could probably use a couple of guys as mathematicians when we work through our budget process. And Dr. Thompson, if indeed North Korea has a role in this virus exploitation, I find it ironic that a country as North Korea that not only suppresses but quashes religious freedom would use a biblical name, Lazarus, as its codename, so just an aside. Dr. Romine, my question is to you. When news of WannaCry started spreading, what, if any, steps did NIST take to ensure federal agencies information systems were protected and was NIST involved in any government meeting that took place around that time? Dr. Romine. Thank you very much for the question. The response for an event like WannaCry from the NIST perspective, the primary goal as a scientific institution and as an institution that provides guidance is to learn as much as we can about the incident and about the origin--not the origin from a country point of view but the technical origins, and to determine whether the guidance that we issue is sufficiently robust to help organizations prevent this kind of attack. I'm not aware of specific meetings that we were involved in that were discussing the operational side of WannaCry. I think the law enforcement and intelligence communities were certainly meeting. You heard reference to DHS being quite active in helping the private sector to deal with this issue. From our perspective, it's more learning whether we can improve the guidance that we make available to entities to try to not only prevent these attacks but also recover from them and to be prepared for them in the future. Mr. Abraham. Okay. And I'll stay with you for my second question. In your testimony, which I did read, you said that NIST recommendations in the NIST guide for the cybersecurity event recovery and Cybersecurity Framework would sufficiently address the WannaCry incidents. Will the requirement in the cyber Executive Order to agencies to implement the Framework help them be better prepared in the future to defend against these types of incidences and will this be enough or should more be done? Dr. Romine. Thanks for the question. It's difficult to know whether it will be enough for the next event, but I can say this. One of the important things that emerged in our discussions with the private sector during the development of the Framework was that we are often thinking about detection and prevention of attacks. Sometimes, we don't pay enough attention to response and recovery, and so one of the things that the Framework does is to spell out the five functions-- identify, protect, detect, respond and recover--and we're providing a lot of guidance now with the incident response guidance, for example, to help different organizations be better prepared to respond and recover. One of the analogies that I've drawn recently is the Boy and Girl Scouts are right: their motto is ``be prepared.'' And the fact is, the better prepared an organization is through its risk management activities, which we think the risk management framework from FISMA coupled with for federal agencies and under the umbrella of the Cybersecurity Framework now, we think those are the tools that are necessary to implement the kind of preparedness that organizations should have. Mr. Abraham. One quick follow-up. What specific steps in lieu of this WannaCry should NIST take to help federal and state agencies be better prepared as well as the private sector? Dr. Romine. So we're already looking at some of the consequences associated with it, some of the incident response work that we have, some of the data integrity work that I talked about earlier. We launched the Data Integrity Project at the National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence, which has a very strong tie-in with ransomware-type attacks. We launched that actually before the WannaCry came out but in light of this new event, we're accelerating the work that's going on in the NCCOE so we hope to be able to provide very practical guidance or practical examples of how to be prepared so that organizations can see how it's done. Mr. Abraham. Thank you. And General, thank you for your service to the country. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Vice Chairman Abraham. I now recognize Ranking Member Lipinski for his questioning. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the witnesses for their testimony and for all the work that you do. We are I think finally beginning to take cybersecurity more seriously here in Washington although there's much more that I think we need to do. Part of the problem is understanding what this really means and the impact that it can have. We also need to make sure that the American public knows the significance of cybersecurity and what could happen. We know when we're dealing with cybersecurity that technology is just part of the solution. What often matters more is we saw with WannaCry is personal behavior and organizational behavior. Individuals and information systems managers must regularly install security patches and phase out outdated software. Organizations must prioritize cybersecurity and have plans in place for quick response when there are attacks. These are social-science issues. Another social-science angle is understanding criminal and terror networks as well as foreign state actors, and using that understanding to help inform our intelligence gathering and our cyber defenses. So I'd like to hear from each of our witnesses your thoughts on whether we're investing enough in the human factors of cybersecurity and what more can be done, what more would you like to see us do to--so that we are taking care of these issues? We'll start with Mr. Neino. Mr. Neino. Thank you, Mr. Lipinski. I think it's a great point that you bring up. There are other issues other than technology at play. Cybersecurity is hard. It really is. Software is hard; security is hard. When you put them together, it's very hard. One thing that we know will be quite difficult is resources. Resources will maintain their need for quite some time, and technology is rapidly evolving. We have eroding boundaries. Systems are changing. We have digital transformation that continuously happens so we have to relearn our resources and people. This makes it very difficult for those responsible in those areas to manage risk to actually keep up with the actual threat, the pragmatic threat, not just the way we measure our own threats but in reality like WannaCry. In that case, I think that we could see a huge value if we were to see investments in things that allow for threat prioritization, again going back to the events of magnitude example. You can't boil the ocean but you can look at the areas that can hurt you the most and the people that will hurt you the most, and investigating those things and putting them together allows you to start to formulate a picture that allows you to prioritize threats. Once you prioritize threats, the investments you make in those people and those resources will be maximized and we'll have a better chance of being more resilient. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you. Dr. Romine? Dr. Romine. I'd like to describe two important NIST programs that directly address the human part of this problem. One is that NIST is privileged to home the program office for the National Initiative for Cybersecurity Education, or NICE, which is an interagency program that's dedicated to building a larger cybersecurity workforce, and we've made great strides in that area. I'm very proud of the work that we've done there. The second part of the program is, and you're absolutely right, that one of the key components in achieving true security is understanding how humans interact with technology. You can be theoretically secure through technology but if the people that are trying to get their jobs done are focused on that and not taking advantage of, or in some cases, even circumventing security that's in place in order to get their jobs done, you have to know about that and you have to understand how to build systems that have the human in the loop. NIST views a systems-level approach for cybersecurity but we think people, the users, are part of the system and so we have an active research program in understanding. We have psychologists, sociologists, human factors engineers on our staff whose entire mission is to understand how people interact with technology so that we can do better in areas like security and usability. Mr. Lipinski. General Touhill? General Touhill. Thank you very much. When I was at--still in public service as the U.S. Chief Information Security Officer, I applied about five strategic lines of effort. One was harden the workforce; two, treat information as an asset; three, do the right things the right way and at the right time; four, make sure that you're continuously innovating and investing wisely; and then five; make sure that you're making risk management decisions at the right level. The first one was harden the workforce. If you gave me an extra dollar in cybersecurity, I'm always going to spend it on people, and frankly, your people are your greatest resource but they're also your weakest link. We see it time and time again, and 95 percent of the incidents my U.S. ICS, Industry Control System CERTs responded to you could track back to a human failure--failure to patch, failure to configure correctly, failure to read the instruction book. So I think hardening the workforce should be a strategic priority, and it was one of my top ones and actually was the top one. Further, you know, if you ask for where else could we invest well: exercises. People should not necessarily be confronting crises without having practiced ahead of time, and my friend, Admiral Thad Allen, likes to say the time to exchange business cards is not a time of crisis. We should be doing exercises more often than we are, and we should be investing more into them. And then further, everybody needs to play. Too often we see senior executives who go dismiss that off to the younger folks and the kids in the server room to play. It's a risk issue, and risk decisions are made at the board level. So I think we need to invest in exercises. We already are doing a lot. During the time I was at DHS when I first got there, the year before we had done 44. By the time I left two years later, we were up to 270 exercises. But I think more needs to be done, and I encourage the Committee and the Congress to help reward these type of practices because I think it'll buy down our risk. Mr. Lipinski. And if the Chairman will indulge me, Dr. Thompson? Mr. Thompson. Thank you. Thanks for that question because I think what you're hitting on is probably one of the most important and underinvested areas in cybersecurity in general. This human element cannot be separated from the technology. Often in the security community we talk about advanced persistent threats, and most people when they think about that think about very sophisticated code, malware, but in fact, what we're seeing is the root of many of these advanced persistent threats is the initial way a company got infected or a person got infected was that an individual made in retrospect a bad choice--they clicked on a link, they downloaded a file--and we're seeing attackers becoming more socially sophisticated in the way they attack. We're seeing them personalize attacks looking for information on social networking sites, for example, so that they can create credibility in an email or a text message that they may send you so that you're convinced that this is a reasonable thing to go and do. And I think from an industry perspective, it is a place that we desperately need focus. I want to give you one data point that I think may be useful. So I've had the pleasure to serve as the program committee chairman for RSA Conference for the past ten years. That conference had 40,000 people, security professionals that showed up last year, which is a sign of how important I think this industry's become, and three years ago we started a track called the Human Element, and it has become one of the most popular tracks for cybersecurity professionals because I think we all realize--and I love the comments that the general made about this topic. I think we all realize that is one of the most critical areas that we need to focus on going forward, human element of the people that are responsible for cybersecurity but also the human element of users. And I'll make a final comment here. It is very easy for a user to understand that there's an increase in utility. I know it's easier to get in my house if I leave the door unlocked, very easy. You don't have to carry any keys around. If I make it more secure, generally people's viewpoint is you make it more secure, you make it more painful. There are more things that you have to do. So they can easily measure utility but they can't easily measure risk, and we need to do a better job at helping the individual, the citizen recognize risk. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you very much. Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Lipinski. I now recognize Congressman Higgins for his questions. Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Neino, congratulations on shutting down WannaCry. That was a big mistake by whoever designed that worm, was it not, to leave the domain unregistered? Mr. Neino. It's hard to say what it is. It could have been intentional, it could have been non-intentional. We think it was non-intentional but it's hard to say. But it definitely was a mistake in any regard. Mr. Higgins. Well, congratulations on discovering it. What would WannaCry had done to the world had that kill switch not been---- Mr. Neino. I can only give a thumbnail of what that might look like but given today, you know, we're seeing millions of thwarted attacks per day, you also have to realize that the velocity of the attack of WannaCry had slowed significantly as a result of the kill switch. So generally mathematicians will say these are exponential attacks, things like that. This could have been a very, very massive attack. Most systems were affected. Mr. Higgins. I concur. Most cyber experts agree that it appears that North Korea was behind WannaCry. Do you agree? Mr. Neino. I think that there are tails in the software program that you could use to associate it but I do believe that intelligence is cumulative behind cyber. Cyber is very difficult to attribute. You need other areas to attribute a---- Mr. Higgins. What's your opinion? Was North Korea behind WannaCry? Mr. Neino. I don't really want to comment. I've seen other people make very good conjectures about it being China. I've seen other conjectures as of just being random people. But I don't think it's worth commenting because I'm just not a subject domain expert in intelligence. Mr. Higgins. Intelligence is a safe answer, sir. When security software is designed, how easy is it for the designer to build a backdoor access that would be virtually undetectable within that cybersecurity software? Mr. Neino. We've seen that a multitude of times, and there's very good studies from a variety of areas. The level of entry to do that is very low. Mr. Higgins. Thank you for concluding that. Brigadier General, my question is to you, sir. Thank you for your service. Are you familiar with Kaspersky Labs out of Moscow? General Touhill. I am familiar with Kaspersky. Mr. Higgins. Manufacturer of cybersecurity products, a long list of cybersecurity products, that top intelligence officials at the FBI, the CIA, the NSA and others advise this body that they don't trust Kaspersky, that they would not use their product on their personal devices. However, it's still used widely across the United States Government in various departments. Can you explain that to this Committee? General Touhill. Well, sir, I don't know what kind of conversation, you know, my colleagues from those agencies had with this Committee. However, as I go and I take a look at the different products that are in the market today, I believe that the American products are the best ones out there, and just on a value proposition, I buy American. Mr. Higgins. I concur. That's a brigadier general speaking right there. General Touhill. That's an American speaking, sir. Mr. Higgins. Let me say that although there's no public evidence of collusion between Kaspersky Labs and the Russian government, it's not a large leap, and Eugene Kaspersky has suggested that his products have no ties to the Russian government. However, as part of the national conversation, Mr. Chairman, and it's widely known that the Russians have been involved in efforts to influence governments across the world with cyber-attack, and Mr. Kaspersky has suggested that he would testify before this body. I strongly suggest that we take him up on his offer. I'd sure like to talk to him regarding the kill switch in North Korea, that having been a rather glaring error on the part of the designer of that worm cyber-attack. Mr. Neino, what do you think that happened to that guy in North Korea? It was a kill switch, wasn't it? So this message, should it get to any of the cyber-attack cyber experts in North Korea, if you can get out of the country, you're welcome in the West. We'd love to have you before this Committee. We'll give you some real good food. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Congressman Higgins. I now yield to Congresswoman Esty. Ms. Esty. Thank you very much. This has been very enlightening and extremely helpful. There are a couple of points I want to return to and maybe drill down on. One is on the human element, which I think is unbelievably important because you can buy all the great equipment in the world, and as you said, Dr. Thompson, if you leave the door open, it doesn't do you any good, and I think a little bit about the analogy in hospitals about getting people used to washing their hands, and it may be low-tech but it works, and so one of the things I think we need to emphasize for all Americans is hygiene. It's just what are proper hygiene practices, so that's one, and getting people's thoughts and how we make that absolutely standard operating procedure for all organizations, government and non-government. Number two, we have an issue in the federal government in particular at all levels of government of really old systems. So we look at the fact that this was exploiting a vulnerabilities in Windows. Who's still using those systems? Overwhelmingly I can tell you it's local and state governments that don't have any money and they're still using these old systems, so that makes it an even greater issue. Mr. Neino, your point about threat assessment and understanding levels of assessment, we need triage help. You know, we need triage help to recognize what defcon level is this because, you know, everybody gets those notes on their phones and we're looking at our phones like I don't have time to upgrade my system, and that's the reality of human behavior. So I'd suggest a couple of things. We ought to be getting behavioral economists and social-media experts to your point, Dr. Thompson, and I think that needs to be part of what the federal government, part of what NIST is doing is to stay ahead of the game we need to do that. A number of us were at an Aspen briefing a couple of months ago with some of the folks from the top levels of the private sector talking about how so much of our emphasis at the federal government has been and frankly the incentives have been for us to be on attack mode. We're developing our attack cyber capability out of the federal government. We've left it to the private sector to do defense. Obviously we need to be doing more defense. So that's--you know, how do we incentivize defense attention? It's less sexy but frankly a lot more important. So what can we do as a culture change? Where does that have to come out of? Is that out of NIST? Is that out of DOD, NSA to put the incentives there? How do we make sure we're getting the broader sector of talent pool. Again, it may not strike people bringing in, you know, people who do Snapchat for figuring out how do we make sure people don't click on that link but it strikes me over and over again if we don't do that, if we look at what happened in the hacking on the electoral system and last year what happened, it was John Podesta's email where someone clicked on a link, and it is going to be the weakest link and the strongest link at the same time. So anyone who has thoughts on that whole bunch of stuff I just dumped, that's what happens when you're at the end of the hearing, you know, you're batting clean-up and want to raise a number of issues. But again, thank you very much. I look forward to following with all of you, and thank you for your efforts and in joining with us in figuring out how we can do better for America. Thanks. Dr. Romine. Thank you, Congresswoman. I'll just make two very quick points. One is, we have active research going on now under the program that I just talked about to understand human behavior, trying to understand susceptibility to phishing attacks, and what are the things that factor into people not recognizing that something is a phishing attack. And so there's research coming out about that. With regard to culture change, I think maybe it's underappreciated sometimes the culture change that's going on in boardrooms and among CEOs who in light of the Framework as a catalyst for this but I think this might have been on their radar anyway, but the Framework is a means of catalyzing the understanding on the part of boardrooms and CEOs that manage risk to reputation, financial risk, and business operational risk and all of the other risks that you're already managing as a CEO, you now have the tools that you can use to incorporate cybersecurity risk into that entire risk management. General Touhill. I'd like to pile onto that. First of all, on the cyber hygiene, we all need to do better, and we work very closely with NIST to help promote the national cyber education programs that we have, and I think we really need to do better on that. As a matter of fact, I propose that we probably need a Woodsy Owl, Smokay the Bear type of thing. You know, I call it Byte. Let's get kids out there fully educated and bring that pipeline up. And we've been working with NIST and across the interagency to do that. And we also need to incentivize. We shouldn't necessarily be seen as the government that's here to help but not really help but to overregulate. We need to encourage and incentivize folks to do the right thing, to buy down their enterprise risk. But we also have to recognize that risk is an intrinsic part of any management of any business, and we have to be very careful that we don't have hamshackle the different boards and C suites from actually managing their risk, and we need to give them the tools and the support to be good wingmen to help them make those risk decisions. And then finally, you know, we've had a lot of discussions publicly in this town over the last two, three, four years about roles and missions as to who does what in helping folks. As for me, having served in uniform for over 30 years and then having done some public service on top of that, I think it really takes teamwork, and I view the DOD and NSA and intelligence community's mission to help us with deterrence and interdiction. Let's stop them and take the fight to the bad guys out to foreign shores. But when it comes to protecting hometown America, I believe that that's more appropriate for DHS and the work that's being currently done in the NCCIC to choreograph different activities across the federal government in better serving the citizens. Mr. Thompson. Just a quick comment. First, I support the General's suggest that we resurrect Smokay the Bear. I think it would be great to see him again and maybe kind of repurpose him for this effort. But I will say first, Congresswoman, thank you so much for your comments. I very much agree with what you said about this human element. I can tell you that the practice of security I think is changing very much because of that, and I think about the folks that we hire at Symantec as an example. The kinds of folks that are hunting down the malicious networks today aren't just the computer scientists and mathematicians but there are computational linguists, there are behavioral psychologists, there are anthropologists. There are people that are looking at the human behavior of an attack group, so that's one side. On the consumer side, which we sell to with Norton, we spend an amazing amount of time thinking about how do we make security similar to the iPad, and I call it the iPad because it's the only piece of technology I think I've ever given to my mom and I didn't have to give her any instruction about how to use it. She just understood it. And we spend a massive amount of time now today on design. How do we make it intuitive? How do we make it easier to be more secure than less secure? And I think that is where a lot of effort must go in in the security community today. How do we make it easier to be more secure than less secure? Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Congresswoman Esty. I was just thinking as you referenced Smokay the Bear, maybe a new company, Smokay the Bear Malware would be something---- Mr. Thompson. We'll register the domain, Mr. Chairman. Chairman LaHood. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Palmer for his questions. Mr. Palmer. Mr. Neino, first, accept our thanks for the quick thinking that allowed the kill switch to prevent so many infections, but with regard to your measurements, however, you suggest that the number of 200,000 infections is too low, and that before the implementation of the kill switch, there may have been 1 to 2 million infections. In that regard, how do you then explain that practically no one tried to pay the ransom if there were that many more? Mr. Neino. I think there were some who tried to pay the ransom be it the measure of success of that is hard to determine. I think we also---- Mr. Palmer. Well, what you've got is that from many studies that a large portion of the companies do pay the ransoms when their computers are encrypted, but monitoring the Bitcoin wallets advertised in the WannaCry malware, it seems that less than 500 people did, so that's two one-hundredths of 1 percent. Mr. Neino. Sure. Well, I think---- Mr. Palmer. That's very inconsistent with your---- Mr. Neino. Yeah, I think---- Mr. Palmer. --with what you're saying. Mr. Neino. I think that when you look at--it's hard to associate the payments to the actual spread, and I'll tell you for a variety of reasons. One, when you look at the actual attack and the magnitude of the attack and you try to trace it to the payment, if you look at the mechanisms to make the payment, it was, one, not clear whether you would get your systems back anyways, and at this point the attacks have been abandoned, so we know that if you pay the ransom, you didn't go anywhere. Most of the media and many of the experts were suggesting not to pay the attack. We were asked the same question and we said you would have to base your own risk organization and determine if you should pay the attack. However, what I can say is the data that we are receiving is absolute. When we get this data--we've been doing this. It's not just WannaCry. We've been doing this for close to a decade. We see and visibly analyze data that comes in. It is accurate. Mr. Palmer. I'd like to address this question to General Touhill, and again, as many of our members have said, thank you for your service, sir. Your testimony refers to people who were infected by running Windows 95 but published industry reports are saying that almost everyone that was infected was running Windows 7. So isn't it true that the main reason people were infected was because an intelligence community vulnerability was leaked to the public? Turn on your mic, please. General Touhill. Thanks. Sir, thanks for the question. You know, just for clarity's sake, the--in my written testimony I highlighted Windows 95 as being used as an exemplar. However, there was plenty of other different operating systems that were very susceptible to this type of attack including Windows ME, 7, you know, a lot of unpatched systems. Mr. Palmer. But I'm asking about an intelligence community vulnerability that was leaked to the public. General Touhill. I think that if we take a look at it from that standpoint, yeah, I'm very concerned about that, and I think that this highlights a couple of things. First of all, patch your systems. We've been telling you all along to do that. Second of all, I think that as we take a look at, you know, the leakage of information or the attribution of leakage of information, that's very serious and unacceptable. Mr. Palmer. Well, in regard to the patch, the reality is that a team of actors calling themselves shadow brokers published an NSA exploit called EternalBlue on the Internet, and that happened in January 2017, and Microsoft released a patch that addressed that vulnerability 3 months later in March, a patch called MS17-010, so it was not a problem of machines being out of date. The problem was that if you hadn't put all of the Microsoft recommended patches on all the machines within 60 days, you would become a victim, and it was a zero-day attack because when EternalBlue code was released in January, there was no way to protect a computer from it. General Touhill. I don't believe I would characterize this one necessarily as a full-zero-day attack. From my perch, you know, frankly, because the fact that we had some patches that had been put out, and Microsoft went through extraordinary measures, by the way, to go out and create those patches for operating systems that had previously been declared unsupportable many years before, and I use Windows 95 in my written testimony as an exemplar because Windows 95 had been online for about 19 years before it was retired, and for the last three years, Microsoft had not been supporting it, and then for them to come back and put out that patch in March was extraordinary, and through the federal government and other organizations around the world, we went out and we clearly communicated, and Carnegie Mellon's C-CERT was one of them, clearly communicated to all of the communities of interest, patch your systems, this is an important patch, and it was labeled as a critical patch, sir. Mr. Palmer. If I may, I have one more question for Mr. Thompson. Could you address the double pulsar feature that you mentioned? Since no one was actually paying the ransoms, it is possible that the real goal of the attack was to allow remote access to the machines that the double pulsar was installed on by becoming infected? Mr. Thompson. Thanks for your question. It's difficult to anticipate what the true intention was of this attack, whether it was ransomware, whether it was a test, whether it was the ability to propagate some kind of back door, but what is, I think, interesting as a characteristic of the attack, which I think goes back to your first question of why didn't we see, quote, normal or expected rates of ransomware payment. The backend infrastructure that was set up was very weak compared to the typical piece of ransomware that we see out there in the wild, and it is pretty incredible. Many of these ransomware attacks have a very robust infrastructure behind them. They have almost the equivalent of customer support for people that have been infected with the ransomware. We didn't see that level of sophistication here in the back end. Mr. Palmer. I thank the witnesses for their answers. I yield back. Chairman LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Palmer. I now yield to Congressman Webster for his questions. Mr. Webster. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank for you having this meeting, a joint meeting, and thank each of you for coming, but I'll tell you, my mind has been on something else, and the statements that were given here were similar to that in that they fit. There was an attack yesterday, and I thought about how the fact it was an advanced, persistent threat, and not only that, was it a personalized attack, and there's some people, in fact, my seatmate here, who acted heroically to turn it around, and so I just--that's what was on my mind, these Capitol Police whose service protected life yesterday along with the heroic acts of many of the Members of this Congress. Maybe it's a different kind of threat but it was real, and in this particular case, there was no human error, and so I just-- I wanted to take this time that I have, just a few minutes, and say thank you for our people who work there and for the members who serve here who prove there still are heroes in our country and they just haven't been exposed yet, and there was some yesterday that were exposed, so thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Chairman LaHood. Thank you. I think we have a couple more questions. We're going to go just for a short second round here. I'll yield myself five minutes. Dr. Romine, you note in your written testimony that the National Vulnerability Database, NVD, that NIST maintains and ``updates dozens of times daily'' of all known and publicly reported IT vulnerabilities documented that vulnerability that the WannaCry malware exploited. A recent report notes that 75 percent of the vulnerabilities documented last year were disclosed elsewhere first and that it takes on average 7 days between the discovery of a vulnerability and its reporting on the NVD. What is the reason for the delay there if you could talk about that, and is NIST working to get rid of that lag time? Dr. Romine. Thank you for the question. We're always interested in trying to shorten time to deliver really important information to our stakeholders. In the case of NVD, our goal is not first to disclose or first to disseminate the-- although we want to do as early as we can. Our real goal is accurate curation, including an assessment of the impact that a vulnerability might have, and that assessment requires a certain amount of analysis that has to be done before we can include something in the National Vulnerability Database. The other reason for that is that the disclosures are often from sources that are not necessarily reliable from our perspective, and including information about vulnerabilities from sources that we don't view as authoritative would not be in our best interest for the NVD. Chairman LaHood. And was there a delay in reporting the vulnerability that the WannaCry malware exploited? Dr. Romine. I don't know the exact duration between the time that we received the report and the time that we put it in the NVD. I'm sure it was a matter of days. Chairman LaHood. Thank you. Those are all my questions. I yield to Mr. Beyer. Mr. Beyer. Thank you, Chairman, very much. General, you are the first Chief Information Security Officer, and you took that position, I guess, last September under the Obama Administration? General Touhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Beyer. Do you believe the federal government should have this federal CISO position? I know the Trump Administration hasn't filled it yet, but do you--any reason why you left at the time that you did, and any concerns about whether it will be refilled? General Touhill. Well, first of all, thank you for the question. I believe that this is a best practice to have a Chief Information Security Officer in different organizations. The first Chief Information Security Officer position was created in the private sector over 20 years ago, and it took about 20 years for the federal government to create one. I think it is critically important as part of an enterprise risk management approach that you do in fact have someone who is focused on information security and the risk to the enterprise and advising the corporate community as it were up, down and across as far as what those risks are and best practices to buy down and manage that risk. Within the federal government, we still don't have an authorization for a federal Chief Information Security Officer in statute. My position was appointed as an administrative appointment, and I think that as we take a look at--as we move forward--and the Executive Order that just recently came out is a great step forward. I think we need to firm up and make sure that this position is an enduring position but we also need to authorize and empower the position such that Chief Information Security Officer can in fact have the authorities to choreograph and direct activities that are necessary to better manage our risk. As far as the appointment goes, I look forward to seeing who the Administration brings forward, and I will coach and serve as wingman for that person. Mr. Beyer. Great. While we're talking Executive Orders, you made the really interesting case that we overclassify, that the default position right now is to make everything the highest thing, and that we should instead make the default position the lower level of classification and argue our way up. How do we operationalize that? Is this Executive Order, legislation, memorandum of understanding? General Touhill. I thank you for that question. I'm very passionate about it because I was responsible for public and private sector partnerships while I was at DHS and the information sharing between the public sector and the private sector, and frankly, we overclassify too much time-sensitive information in the federal government, in my view, and I believe that the solution set is going to have to be a combination of legislation as well as executive action. So I think that really both branches of government are going to need to partner up as far as--to determine a best means of getting information out faster to folks so that we can timely and actionable actions in this fast-paced cyber environment. Mr. Beyer. Thank you. Mr. Neino, you had one very intriguing, or many intriguing lines in your testimony. One said that ``points contrary to defense (who did it)'' and what I understood from that is we spent too much time trying to figure out who is Lazarus or who is Bayrob rather than defend ourselves. Can you expand on that? Because I confess, as a naturally curious person who watches Law and Order and CSI and all the stuff, I want to know who did it. Mr. Neino. I think that the barrier of entry at this point is that anyone could do it, so conjecturing over who has done it is a very difficult task because cybersecurity is something that could be easily misdirected. You never really know who the attack is, and focusing on that doesn't solve the problem that we're vulnerable. We are vulnerable. So if you leave the door open, there could be thousands of people that walk by your house every day. Would it really matter if it's because you leave yourself exposed who has done it? They do it because they can, and we should not make it that way. We should make it so that we are resilient and we are a very strong nation in regards to defense. Mr. Beyer. Thank you. Dr. Thompson, do you want to pile on at all? Mr. Thompson. I do. Thank you. You know, it's interesting. We don't spend very much time looking at who did it and who is the country behind it, who is the enterprise behind it, who is the person behind it, but it's very critical for us to associate patterns of behavior. So if we associate attack A with attack B and then believe that these two things are connected, it will let us learn more about that group, the tactics that they use, and make is better prepared to protect against a new attack sight unseen, and that was the case with Symantec's AV engines and our artificial intelligence engines because of previous training on this against the WannaCry malware. So it's critical for us to have that grouping together and we'll leave it up to the intelligence community to decide who that group actually belongs to. Mr. Beyer. Great. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Chairman LaHood. Mr. Lipinski, do you have any follow-up questions? Mr. Lipinski. No, I think I took plenty of time on my first round. I thank the witnesses for your testimony, all the work. As I said, I'm sure we'll be continuing this discussion, so thank you. Chairman LaHood. In closing, I want to thank all of the witnesses here today for your important, insightful and impactful testimony here today, and as our two Subcommittees look at legislation and public policy as it relates to cybersecurity and the ancillary issues of national security, economic vulnerabilities, privacy, we look forward to continuing to work with you on those issues and appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to be here today. And the record will remain open for two weeks for additional written comments and written questions from Members, and at this time the hearing is adjourned. [Whereupon, at 11:51 a.m., the Subcommittees were adjourned.] Appendix I ---------- Answers to Post-Hearing Questions [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Appendix II ---------- Additional Material for the Record [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]