[House Hearing, 114 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
PRIVATE SECTOR WEATHER FORECASTING:
ASSESSING PRODUCTS AND TECHNOLOGIES
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
June 8, 2016
__________
Serial No. 114-81
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov
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HON. LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas, Chair
FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR., ZOE LOFGREN, California
Wisconsin DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois
DANA ROHRABACHER, California DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland
RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas ERIC SWALWELL, California
MO BROOKS, Alabama ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois AMI BERA, California
BILL POSEY, Florida ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky MARC A. VEASEY, Texas
JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma KATHERINE M. CLARK, Massachusetts
RANDY K. WEBER, Texas DON S. BEYER, JR., Virginia
JOHN R. MOOLENAAR, Michigan ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado
STEVE KNIGHT, California PAUL TONKO, New York
BRIAN BABIN, Texas MARK TAKANO, California
BRUCE WESTERMAN, Arkansas BILL FOSTER, Illinois
BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia
GARY PALMER, Alabama
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana
DARIN LaHOOD, Illinois
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio
------
Subcommittee on Environment
HON. JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma, Chair
F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR. SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland
RANDY WEBER, Texas ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
JOHN MOOLENAAR, Michigan AMI BERA, California
BRIAN BABIN, Texas MARK TAKANO, California
BRUCE WESTERMAN, Arkansas BILL FOSTER, Illinois
GARY PALMER, Alabama EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana
C O N T E N T S
June 8, 2016
Page
Witness List..................................................... 2
Hearing Charter.................................................. 3
Opening Statements
Statement by Representative Jim Bridenstine, Chairman,
Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and
Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...................... 4
Written Statement............................................ 6
Statement by Representative Suzanne Bonamici, Ranking Minority
Member, Subcommittee on Enviorment, Committee on Science,
Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives........... 8
Written Statement............................................ 9
Statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Ranking
Minority Member, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
U.S. House of Representatives.................................. 11
Written Statement............................................ 12
Witnesses:
Mr. Barry Myers, CEO, AccuWeather
Oral Statement............................................... 13
Written Statement............................................ 15
Mr. Jim Block, Chief Meteorological Officer, Schneider Electric
Oral Statement............................................... 27
Written Statement............................................ 29
Dr. Neil Jacobs, Chief Scientist, Panasonic Weather Solutions,
Panasonic
Oral Statement............................................... 76
Written Statement............................................ 78
Dr. Antonio Busalacchi, Director, Earth System Interdisciplinary
Center, University of Maryland
Oral Statement............................................... 97
Written Statement............................................ 99
Dr. Sandy MacDonald, Director, Numerical Weather Prediction,
Spire Global
Oral Statement............................................... 122
Written Statement............................................ 123
Discussion....................................................... 128
Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Dr. Neil Jacobs, Chief Scientist, Panasonic Weather Solutions,
Panasonic...................................................... 142
Dr. Antonio Busalacchi, Director, Earth System Interdisciplinary
Center, University of Maryland................................. 145
PRIVATE SECTOR WEATHER FORECASTING:
ASSESSING PRODUCTS AND TECHNOLOGIES
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WEDNESDAY, JUNE 8, 2016
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Environment and
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
Washington, D.C.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:32 a.m., in
Room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jim
Bridenstine [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
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Chairman Bridenstine. The Subcommittee on Environment will
come to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare
recesses of the Committee at any time.
Welcome to today's hearing titled ``Private Sector Weather
Forecasting: Assessing Products and Technologies.'' I recognize
myself for five minutes for an opening statement.
Good morning, and welcome to this morning's Environment
Subcommittee hearing.
The American weather enterprise is made up of stakeholders
that provide services which ultimately save lives and property.
Among these are private-sector weather forecasting companies
that over the years have become a major source of weather
information. Today we have companies that specialize in sector-
specific forecasting, as well as companies which create their
own forecasts that are disseminated to millions of Americans.
The services they provide are essential to protecting
Americans in the face of severe weather. This is particularly
important to me as my constituents in Oklahoma face some of the
most severe weather in the country. Providing them advanced
warnings is critical. I look forward to hearing about the
advances made by private-sector weather companies working on
the forefront to protect lives and property.
NOAA currently provides important data which is then
utilized by other stakeholders to construct forecasts. Many
private-sector companies also use their own methods and
technologies to enhance this data.
To me, there is a clear delineation here. NOAA should focus
on providing the foundational datasets that others utilize to
produce life-saving forecasts, rather than duplicating efforts
and technologies that are employed or could be employed by the
private sector.
As an example, the main tenet of H.R. 1561, the Lucas-
Bridenstine Weather Research and Forecasting Innovation Act, is
its recognition of the role commercial weather data can play as
a piece of the solutions available to NOAA. In the face of
looming data gaps, we need to maintain continuous, efficient,
robust, and cost-effective data streams to feed the initial
conditions of our numerical weather prediction models.
This Subcommittee has a long history of oversight of NOAA's
satellite programs, which over the years have been plagued with
cost-overruns, delays, and mismanagement. This has underscored
my belief that we need to augment our space-based observing
systems by incorporating alternative methods of data
collection.
Earlier this year before this subcommittee, NOAA
Administrator Kathy Sullivan testified to the ability of the
private sector to produce weather data. She testified that ``In
the weather domain, we believe it is a promising but still
quite nascent prospect to actually have data flows from
private-sector satellites.'' Today, I am pleased to have one of
the many private-sector satellite companies before us to
discuss their perspectives on commercial weather data.
I was encouraged by NOAA's budget request this year for
commercial weather, which includes funding to continue the
Commercial Weather Data Pilot program authorized by our House-
passed weather bill. This pilot program is an important signal
to the private sector that NOAA is interested in new and
innovative sources of data.
Likewise, I was also encouraged to see NOAA incorporate a
line item for the purchase of radio occultation data as a
potential alternative to another constellation of COSMIC
satellites.
The Commerce, Justice, and Science Appropriations bill
supports both these initiatives, and I'd like to thank my
colleagues on that committee, particularly Chairman Culberson.
In light of these directions from Congress, I look forward
to following up with NOAA to find out how these decisions will
be made.
I look forward to an in-depth discussion today about how
private-sector data and products can build on the foundation
provided by NOAA to help enhance the safety of all Americans.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bridenstine follows:]
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Chairman Bridenstine. I now recognize the gentlewoman from
Oregon, the Ranking Member, Ms. Bonamici, for an opening
statement.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank
you to all of our witnesses for being here today.
I'd like to start by congratulating Dr. Busalacchi, who
will soon be the President of the University Corporation for
Atmospheric Research later this summer.
Today's hearing is an opportunity to hear about the
successes of the private weather industry, learn about the
impressive weather research being conducted at academic
institutions, and recognize the critical role that the National
Weather Service has played, and will continue to play, in
ensuring the strength and continuity of the entire American
weather enterprise.
The three sectors that make up the weather enterprise--
private, public, and academic--work collectively to meet the
needs of the public, inspire growth and innovation, and protect
life and property. To maintain the progress we have made over
the last decade, we must explore opportunities to leverage
expertise across these sectors. More can be done by NOAA and
the Weather Service to strengthen this partnership and keep us
on a path of serving the public even better.
If, however, Congress were to reduce the role of one
sector, or shift responsibilities without considering how such
a change might affect the entire enterprise, we risk upsetting
the balance and losing the progress so many of us have worked
so hard to achieve.
In 2003, the National Academies released their seminal
report on the weather partnership, ``Fair Weather: Effective
Partnerships in Weather and Climate Services'', and their
recommendations state that continued success requires
recognizing the core mission of each partner.
The core mission of the National Weather Service is to
provide weather forecasts and warnings to protect life and
property, and to enhance our national economy. The NWS network
includes thousands of forecasters, across hundreds of forecast
offices, who support the critical infrastructure of observing,
data processing, prediction, and dissemination systems.
Research taking place at our academic institutions advances the
science needed to make forecasts more accurate, while inspiring
the next generation of meteorologists. The private sector has
the ability to use both the research and NWS data to tailor
exciting new products to meet the changing demands of a diverse
set of end-users and consumers.
Although some advocate for disaggregating the current
structure, I am confident that the weather enterprise is
stronger together. In the 13 years since the release of the
Fair Weather Report, the weather partnership has flourished and
the state of U.S. weather forecasting is strong. Although we
should always look for ways to improve, we must do so in ways
that strengthen each partner, not diminish any of the key
roles.
I look forward to the discussion today about how we can
accomplish that goal.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your leadership on this issue,
and I yield back the balance of my time.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Bonamici follows:]
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Chairman Bridenstine. I'd like to thank the Ranking Member,
and I now recognize the Ranking Member of the full Committee,
Ms. Johnson, for an opening statement.
Mrs. Johnson of Texas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman,
and good morning, all.
People in Texas are very familiar with the impact weather
has on our daily lives. As a matter of fact, there is a common
saying that we have all four seasons, and some days we have all
of them in one day. In just the last few weeks, terrible floods
have taken the lives of more than a dozen people.
Weather has a universal impact, and it is only through
reliable and accurate forecasts that we are able to act to
protect ourselves. This is why the mission of the National
Weather Service is to provide weather, water, and climate data,
forecasts and warnings for the protection of life and property
and enhancement of the national economy. So while this hearing
is part of an ongoing dialogue regarding the role of the
commercial weather industry in our weather enterprise, we must
keep in mind that the protection of our citizens and national
security are inherently government functions.
That is why, in 2003, the National Academies Fair Weather
Report provided recommendations of how to strengthen the
existing partnership between the Weather Service, academia, and
the private sector, and not simply strip away government
functions as some may suggest. Despite the claims by some that
we must disaggregate the weather enterprise, it is very clear
to me that the existing partnership between these three sectors
has made our weather forecasts more reliable and more accurate.
We will hear from some of the witnesses that NWS should
focus on its core functions and let private companies handle
the rest. However, if weather data collection and weather
forecasting are not core functions of the NWS, I don't know
what is. As we must work to ensure that NWS's forecasts are as
accurate and timely as possible, we need to make sure that NWS
has the resources and mandates to do so.
It should also be noted that NWS weather data has enabled
the growth of a significant value-added industry. There may be
ways that the private sector can complement and support that
mission, but I'm very skeptical that transferring all of the
responsibilities to the private sector is either wise or
necessary, and therefore I do not support doing so.
And finally, I would have hoped the Majority would have
invited NOAA and the Weather Service to participate in this
hearing but I look forward to hearing their perspective at
another time.
I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having the hearing, and I
yield back the balance of my time.
[The prepared statement of Mrs. Johnson of Texas follows:]
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Chairman Bridenstine. The gentlelady yields back.
Let me introduce our witnesses, and because we're short on
time--we have the Prime Minister from India here today--I'm
going to skip the long and impressive bios, and I'll just
introduce the individuals here.
Our first witness today is Mr. Barry Myers, CEO of
AccuWeather. Our next witness today is Mr. Jim Block, Chief
Meteorological Officer for Schneider Electric. Our third
witness today is Dr. Neil Jacobs, Chief Scientist for Panasonic
Weather Solutions. Our next witness is Dr. Antonio Busalacchi,
Director of the Earth System Interdisciplinary Center, and
Professor in the Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Science
at the University of Maryland. And our final witness today is
Dr. Sandy MacDonald, Director of Numerical Weather Prediction
at Spire Global.
So I will now recognize Mr. Myers for five minutes--we'll
say three minutes--to present his opening testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MR. BARRY MYERS,
CEO, ACCUWEATHER
Mr. Myers. Good morning, Chairman Bridenstine, Ranking
Member Bonamici, and members of the Subcommittee.
AccuWeather is a global leader in weather information and
digital distribution, and I'm honored to be invited to
participate in today's hearing.
The United States has the best weather information
available to its citizens and its business and industrial
sectors of any Nation. This result did not occur by the
American weather industry acting alone; it was and continues to
be the interactive, cooperative approach of the weather
industry, the academic research community, and NOAA and its
National Weather Service that has led to this result. These
entities form the Nation's weather enterprise.
American weather companies are now becoming the focal point
for weather information in many countries around the world. For
example, the number one weather mobile source in Europe is an
American company, AccuWeather. We estimate that AccuWeather
information is on 1.5 billion or more devices globally. It's
American business leadership, academic research, and government
partnerships that are propelling this American weather
phenomenon.
Some believe that the reduction in weather-related deaths
in the United States since the late 1950s when the American
weather industry was at its beginning through the joint and
collaborative efforts within the weather enterprise have saved
as many as 1 to 2 million lives. These successes were enabled
by the foundational partnership between the National Weather
Service and the weather companies that directly receive NWS
data, observations, forecast models and so forth, which the
weather companies and private-sector meteorologists develop
into weather information products for Americans and for the
global marketplace. Private-sector innovation and investment
has enabled many of the technological advances in how American
weather companies communicate weather to the public.
At the end of World War II, about 98 percent of the weather
information received by the public came from the government
directly, and now it's estimated that that's reversed and about
98 percent comes from the weather industry, and this includes
special warnings for tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, et cetera.
The 24/7/365 acquisition and distribution of core foundational
data, funding research and development, and running of models
and issuing government warnings are some of the most important
things that the National Weather Services does, and those that
the entire weather community and the public rely on.
There needs to be a renewed effort within the weather
enterprise with the Environment Subcommittee through its
oversight role to strengthen the foundational data partnership
between the National Weather Service and the private-sector
weather industry, which industry is now woven into the fabric
of American life. America's weather industry is a critical
piece of the Nation's weather value chain as the 2012 National
Academy of Sciences report clearly points out. The private
weather sector needs to be supported and nurtured by NOAA for
the good of the Nation.
If NOAA does its part, the private sector will do its part
by continuing to foster technological innovation in the
development of more advanced and sophisticated weather
products, forecast services, presentations, and communication
of weather and warnings to the public.
Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee, thank you for
inviting me to participate today. I would be pleased of course
to answer any questions you may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Myers follows:]
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Chairman Bridenstine. Thank you, Mr. Myers.
Mr. Block, you're recognized for three minutes.
TESTIMONY OF MR. JIM BLOCK,
CHIEF METEOROLOGICAL OFFICER,
SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC
Mr. Block. Thank you, Chairman Bridenstine, Ranking Member
Bonamici. I appreciate the invitation to testify today on the
opportunities for public and private partnership to deliver
improved weather forecasting services for American taxpayers.
My name is Jim Block, and I'm a Fellow of the American
Meteorological Society and a Certified Consulting Meteorologist
at Schneider Electric. Schneider Electric a global Fortune 300
company with 170,000 employees worldwide, $30 billion in sales,
and operations in more than 100 countries. We have facilities
with almost 300 employees in Ms. Bonamici's district, and 360
in Mr. Rohrabacher's, for example. Schneider Electric is a
specialist in energy management and automation offering
integrated solutions across multiple market segments including
buildings, industrial manufacturers, utilities, and data
centers.
We maintain the largest commercial business-to-business
weather forecasting and consulting organization in the United
States, providing accurate weather forecasting for over 15,000
customers all over the world. We utilize more than 80 separate
data sources including those from NOAA. We innovate and develop
specialized technology to take the NOAA data and add value by
fine-tuning it and aligning it to specific customer needs. For
example, we predict turbulence and flight hazards for over 250
airlines. We also help determine the amount of chemicals to put
on icy roads for over 30 state transportation agencies. We
provide the temperature forecasts used by 70 percent of U.S.
utilities as well as protect many sports teams from adverse
weather.
Currently, commercial weather services like Schneider
Electric focus on solutions to solve specific end-user
problems. Conversely, NOAA provides general forecasts and
warnings for the overall protection of life and property along
with services that support those activities. This division of
services between the private and public sectors of weather is
very efficient and services the American taxpayer very well.
However, it requires more cooperation and communication between
NOAA and companies like Schneider Electric to work effectively.
Some critics may question the need for a government weather
agency at all. However, we strongly disagree. No commercial
entity can operate the weather infrastructure that NOAA
operates today, but at the same time, the multitude and
diversity of end-user projects can only be addressed by
companies like ours and others using information from NOAA and
other sources.
We offer the following recommendations to drive public-
private partnerships and help deliver the best results to
communities and taxpayers. First, there should be more, and
more effective, cooperation between NOAA and the private
sector. We believe that strong cooperation between NOAA and the
private sector is necessary and long overdue, and we believe
that NOAA should have a regular committee that includes
permanent private-sector members.
Second, NOAA should place more emphasis on the use of
existing data sets from commercial sources. We believe there is
a need to look at the relationship between NOAA and downstream
service providers such as Schneider Electric. We believe that
NOAA can benefit from our specialized knowledge of weather
information end users. For example, Schneider Electric has
built and now operates the largest agricultural weather network
in the United States, which consists of more than 4,600 weather
stations located on farms, where the data is used by farmers to
make critical decisions on a daily basis. This is information
that could be tremendously useful to NOAA.
Third, NOAA should eliminate decision support services that
duplicate those available in the private sector. NOAA should
refrain from overextending its scope beyond data sets and
severe weather warnings. We believe that the private sector can
and should collaborate with NOAA on any downstream user or
business services with clear role delineation. Specialized
services have a marginal benefit to the public and needlessly
tie up taxpayer dollars on offers that are already available in
the private sector. Closer cooperation with NOAA could resolve
such situations.
We believe that NOAA's mission can be enhanced and be more
cost-effective if NOAA works more closely with the private
sector, uses data sets such as the ag weather networks, and
eliminates duplicative services.
We commend the Committee for considering our
recommendations, and thank you for the opportunity to speak
today.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Block follows:]
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Chairman Bridenstine. Thank you, Mr. Block.
Dr. Jacobs, you're recognized for three minutes.
TESTIMONY OF DR. NEIL JACOBS,
CHIEF SCIENTIST,
PANASONIC WEATHER SOLUTIONS, PANASONIC
Dr. Jacobs. Good morning, Chairman Bridenstine, Ranking
Member Bonamici, members of the Subcommittee. My name is Neil
Jacobs, and I serve as Chief Scientist for Panasonic Weather
Solutions. I am honored to be invited to participate in today's
hearing.
Panasonic has a great public-private partnership to provide
its TAMDAR data to NOAA through the National Mesonet Program,
which is an example of a successful and sustainable business
model for data acquisition. Panasonic is very pleased to
continue our long-term relationship with NOAA to improve the
quality of weather forecasting. The distinct advantages of our
TAMDAR data will enhance the National Weather Service's core
mission: the protection of life and property.
TAMDAR provides real-time global observations of wind,
temperature and moisture, its spatial and temporal resolutions
greater than both radiosondes and ACARS. TAMDAR-equipped
aircraft and UAVs also report real-time icing and turbulence,
which are routinely used by the NTSB for accident
investigations. The SATCOM transmission doubles as a real-time
back channel communication and flight tracking system.
Dr. Louis Uccellini, Director of NOAA's National Weather
Service, said the National Weather Service has long recognized
the utility of TAMDAR data for analysis and numerical forecast
models, and I am pleased about this path forward to incorporate
these data in our day-to-day operations. Dr. Curtis Marshall of
the National Weather Service has said the provision of this
unique TAMDAR data set continues to steer the National Mesonet
Program in a direction consistent with the National Academy of
Science's Network of Networks vision of a broad range of non-
federal data to improve situational awareness at the National
Weather Service forecast offices and to enhance our high-
resolution modeling capabilities.
Panasonic also runs a suite of models from rapid cycling
regional models to our own global model including an 80-member
ensemble. These models were developed through longstanding
collaborative partnerships with both NCAR and several
universities. Panasonic is the only private entity in the world
with a custom-developed end-to-end operational global weather
modeling platform initialized from raw observations. Panasonic
has worked cooperatively with federal agencies by providing
TAMDAR data to NOAA and the FAA and at many times at no cost.
While we are a commercial company responsible to our
shareholders, we also have another responsibility: to help
share our technological expertise with meteorological agencies
around the world.
In closing, I would like to call the Subcommittee's
attention to NOAA document NAO-216112, Policy on Partnerships
and the Provision of Environmental Information. This policy is
intended to strengthen the partnerships between public,
private, and academic sectors to provide the Nation with the
highest quality environmental information. The partnership
agreement was approved in 2006 by then-NOAA Administrator Dr.
Conrad Lautenbacher. It was developed in response to
recommendations from the National Academy of Science and the
Fair Weather report. I recommend the Subcommittee work closely
with NOAA, the American Meteorological Society, and America's
weather enterprise on any revisions to this important
agreement.
Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee, thank you
again for inviting me to participate today. I'm happy to take
your questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Jacobs follows:]
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Chairman Bridenstine. Thank you, Dr. Jacobs.
Dr. Busalacchi, you're recognized for three minutes.
TESTIMONY OF DR. ANTONIO BUSALACCHI,
DIRECTOR, EARTH SYSTEM INTERDISCIPLINARY CENTER,
UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND
Dr. Busalacchi. Good morning Chairman Bridenstine and
Ranking Member Bonamici, Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you
for this opportunity to brief you again this morning.
Let me begin by noting today's weather enterprise is a
triad that consists of the academic and research communities,
the public sector, and the private sector. The government's
traditional role within this triad is the protection of life,
property and enhancement of national security. This public-
sector role is grounded in sustainability and dependability of
observational data and models that have free and open access.
The private sector's traditional role is to create customized
and tailored products to a broad customer base of private
individuals and businesses in a multitude of sectors. The
academic community works to improve our common understanding of
your system, perform basic and applied research that leads to
innovation, and trains the next generation of workforce both
for the government and the private sector. The three work
together in a public-private partnership that on the world
stage is often the exception rather than the rule. This is a
particular strength of our Nation's approach to the weather
enterprise. These three pillars of success have yielded the
world's most comprehensive and successful array of weather
services in support of the public and private good.
While the roles of each of these legs of the weather
enterprise must continue to evolve, weakening any single leg
will compromise the entire enterprise and will negatively
impact its diverse beneficiaries. We must also recognize that
the private sector has been built upon and has benefited from
the foundation of the free and open approach data and models.
As a result of this tremendous investment from the public,
there has been an enormous return to the public in terms of
jobs and innovations.
I think we should act with caution so as not to do any harm
and assure that the marketplace retains its competitiveness and
no barriers to entry are neglected. In short, we need to find a
workable method to strategically plan the entire enterprise.
The last major study from the National Academies, as you've
heard, was the Fair Weather report of 2003. As a result of that
report, NOAA worked to produce a policy to support
dissemination of environmental information to the public that
was beyond just weather data. In 2012, the Academies released a
report on weather services for the Nation becoming second to
none. That was an assessment of the National Weather Service
modernization program. It had three main recommendations:
prioritize core capabilities, evaluate function and structure,
and leverage the entire enterprise, and that was the bulk of my
written testimony.
I believe it is time to revisit these two reports but we
are lacking a national strategy, and I think we run the risk of
losing sight of the big picture. At one moment we may be
occupied by the challenge of commercialization of satellite
observations, the next moment by the potential private-sector
models, and the next by procuring models from another country,
all at the expense of what may be best for the country as a
whole. I can easy see a scenario where company X takes publicly
supported and freely available models and data and adds unique
value to them. Company Y sells some data to the government but
withholds some for its business purposes, and Company Z has its
own proprietary models and data that are not available for the
common good. Is this what is best for our Nation to protect
lives, property, and support our military in the field?
Continued improvement in our forecasting ability requires
that observations be reliable and accessible and forecasts for
the public good be verified, validated and transparent.
Prior to taking on my new position with UCAR, I was co-
chairing the next Decadal Survey for Earth Science and
Applications from Space. As requested by the Congress, all of
the space sciences have a long history of these decadal surveys
that the agencies are beholden to as well as the insight they
provide to you, OMB and OSTP. We have no such activity for the
weather enterprise. Given the evolving nature of the weather
enterprise, I would submit we need an active and ongoing
strategic planning process as could be achieved by Congress
requesting a decadal survey for the weather enterprise
inclusive of midway assessments and subsequent follow-on
surveys.
In closing, there is considerable upside potential for the
Nation if we do it right. We have much to lose if we do it
wrong. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Busalacchi follows:]
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Chairman Bridenstine. Thank you, Dr. Busalacchi.
Dr. MacDonald, you're recognized for three minutes.
TESTIMONY OF DR. SANDY MACDONALD, DIRECTOR,
NUMERICAL WEATHER PREDICTION, SPIRE GLOBAL
Mr. MacDonald. Chairman Bridenstine, Ranking Member
Bonamici, and Members of the Committee, I retired from NOAA in
January after 40 years, fabulous organization. I signed on to
Spire Global Incorporated, which is a company that's going to
use small satellites to I think bring revolutionary changes to
our ability to observe the weather.
I started my career as a young weather officer giving
weather briefings, and the truth is, we had almost no
information. The pilots, their lives depended on what we could
tell them, and we knew very little. I'm sure our Chairman could
vouch for that occasionally.
But it's a different world now. The government, originally
a sole player in those days, I think has now been enhanced by
our growing commercial sector, which I think if we have the
right policies, we can have a fabulous partnership between the
academic, the public and the private weather capabilities to
serve this country.
I'll give a couple examples. I was, back in about the year
2000, part of a group who said let's have a community model,
the weather research and forecast model, and I think NCAR and
NOAA and others, NASA, worked on this but the big thing that I
think that happened was, NCAR basically said we're going to
make this a real community model to support it, to not have
intellectual-property issues and other issues get in the way,
we'll have workshops and so on. It's been a huge success. So
it's a great example of private-public partnership. I think the
fact that the Panasonic model that Neil Jacobs talked about
used the Weather Service GFS model is another example of that.
I'd like to talk about the satellite observing systems. I
think that the private sector can really bring some dynamism
and complementary to the federal sector in satellites, and a
good example of that is Spire, the company that I work for. We
all remember when we went from mainframes to PCs. I think
that's what Spire is trying to do with satellites. They're
trying to take a big, expensive technology, put it down in a
little tiny box, and still get incredible quality out of it. So
they propose to generate radio occultations from cubesats. I
think they're going to have probably 30,000, 40,000 next year,
and their goal is 100,000 COSMIC 1-quality radio occultations.
This is like having a radiosonde balloon that has a sounding
for every degree of lat and longitude over the entire globe.
I think it's important that we protect our federal sector.
It's really what we depend on for safety, for working on Earth
system issues. Examples of those are COSMIC 2. We know that
GOES-R and JPSS are going to have a fabulous set of sensors.
It's really important that we have the private sector be
complementary to that.
Finally, I'd like to say I think the sort of strength of
the U.S. is its ability to mix the advantages of public and
private, and I think that's our job here to do that in the
weather business.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. MacDonald follows:]
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Chairman Bridenstine. I'd like to thank all the witnesses
for their testimonies.
Members are reminded that Committee rules limit questioning
to five minutes, and I'll start by recognizing myself for five
minutes.
Dr. Jacobs, I wanted to start with you. Panasonic has its
own numerical weather models, and Panasonic uses its own data
in some cases, and in many cases uses data from NOAA and other
sources as well. Can you share with us your weather forecasting
models? How does that compare to the GFS--the Global
Forecasting System--or the European model? How is your model
comparing to the others?
Dr. Jacobs. So that's correct. We use our own data. We
bundle that with all the publicly available data. We assimilate
that into a suite of different models, our flagship model being
a global model. It differs slightly from NSEP's in both the
data assimilation scheme as well as a lot of the modifications
and the physics. Its performance really depends on how you
verify it. If you verify it through sort of the standard
anomaly correlations, it's slightly ahead of NSEP. The European
center had a major upgrade in March. It's slightly lagging the
European center. If you verify it through other means,
particularly case studies, there's been some major weather
events over the last two years where it's outperformed both.
If you actually consider the fact that we have complete
control over the system that's fully customizable from a
business perspective, it's highly advantageous because we can
write out files in increments, levels and variables that you
wouldn't normally get from the government center because our
motivation is actually helping other businesses. We believe
that the Weather Service's mission is to protect life and
property.
Chairman Bridenstine. Has anybody from NOAA or the
Department of Defense reached out to you to get information on
how you're able to accomplish this?
Dr. Jacobs. Yes. I actually have some meetings at the
Pentagon lined up shortly. I'll be giving a seminar next month
on some of our data assimilation methods. Our software
engineers are in constant contact with the NSEP, and to the
extent that it doesn't negatively impact our business model, we
do share information with them.
Chairman Bridenstine. And the intent with the model is to
what? You want to license the outcomes, the outputs of your
model? Is that your intent?
Dr. Jacobs. Well, the primary intent would be to customize
and develop products and applications to sell to other
industries. They would be products that you can't normally
derive from the publicly generated weather model data. As far
as the government agencies are concerned, the possibility of
licensing some of the software does exist.
Chairman Bridenstine. And my understanding is, your model
is a global model to establish the global initial conditions
for weather forecasting. Can you share with us, does your model
have the ability to do mesoscale forecasting or even microscale
forecasting for my constituents that are obviously hit with
severe weather from time to time?
Dr. Jacobs. Right. So one of the reasons why we decided to
run our own global model is, every regional model needs what
they call boundary conditions provided by a global model. So we
run the global model to provide lateral boundary conditions to
high-resolution nested regional models. We currently run
several different nested regions running from 4 to 2-1/2
kilometers, and within those nested regions we can have high-
resolution domains down to sub-one kilometer.
Chairman Bridenstine. Got it.
And Mr. Block, how has NOAA reacted to your innovation with
weather modeling and forecasting?
Mr. Block. They have expressed considerable interest in
the--especially in the ag weather network data that we provide,
and we look forward to working more closely with them to figure
out how we can use that information or even extend or expand
that information to add things like soil temperature or soil
moisture to the observations we make.
Chairman Bridenstine. Awesome.
Dr. MacDonald, how many GPS radio occultation sensors has
Spire launched to date?
Mr. MacDonald. So far, I think we're kind of at the
beginning. We actually have four satellites and then two test
satellites, and we're just learning how to get the quality out
of them that we need.
Chairman Bridenstine. And is your intent to establish your
own numerical weather models as well or to piggyback on the
numerical weather models of others?
Mr. MacDonald. Our intent is not to establish our own
weather models except to the extent that we want to be able to
test the value of these so that we can talk to our customers
and show that it's valuable.
Chairman Bridenstine. So your objective would then be to
provide a service to others that are providing the model? It
could be Panasonic, it could be NOAA, it could be others?
Mr. MacDonald. That's correct.
Chairman Bridenstine. Okay. I've been encouraged that NOAA
is moving forward with the commercial weather data pilot as
outlined in the bipartisan House-passed weather bill, H.R.
1561. I'm very pleased with that.
Dr. MacDonald, can you give me your take on NOAA's approach
to working with the private sector to incorporate data such as
Spire data into their weather models?
Mr. MacDonald. I think that we have to see about the
future. I think the ideas in the Fair Weather Act and the
experience already with private data being available that Neil
Jacobs just talked about shows that the path is there, so we're
hoping that we can have that partnership with the data also.
Chairman Bridenstine. Excellent.
And I'd like to--my time is out. I'll recognize the Ranking
Member from Oregon, Ms. Bonamici, for five minutes.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you
to all the witnesses for your testimony.
Dr. Busalacchi, a well-funded and forward-thinking Weather
Service is critical for the continued protection of the lives
and public of the American public, and we certainly heard that
recognition not just from you but from others today, and we
want continued growth.
You mention in your testimony the need for a national
strategy, so I'm going to ask you about a couple of things, and
then I want you to talk about what you envision as part of the
national strategy. One, should we be investing in greater
supercomputing capacity for the Weather Service, and if so,
what would be the needs for optimal model runs? And then also,
Dr. Block mentioned in his prepared statement that NOAA should
leverage the examples of other agencies and have regular
committee or working groups that include the private-sector
members. So do you have any perspectives on that idea? Are
there other models that may be considered? And what would you
envision as a national strategy?
Dr. Busalacchi. Thank you very much. So with respect to
supercomputing, the answer is yes, but--so if you look at one
of the reasons why for this medium-range time scale for
weather, predicting weather on time scales from three to five
to seven days, one of the reasons why we're about ten years
behind the Europeans is in part because of supercomputing, but
as a result of your encouragement, NOAA is now at the forefront
worldwide in supercomputing capability at this instant. What we
lack is the budgetary, the planning process to keep us there,
all right? In years past we were behind the Europeans. We're
now at the forefront but for a snapshot. One problem. So we
need to solve that.
The second problem is this whole topic of transition from
research to operations so that the Nation can take the best of
the best wherever it comes from, not just the private sector
but from academia as well. Europeans are much better at doing
that transition from research to operations. NOAA has a plan
called RTAP, Research Transition Acceleration Program, that is
going to try and move that. I think that's in the right
direction. But one of the challenges going forward with respect
to a strategy--so Mr. Block's recommendations are very
consistent with what were in the Fair Weather report of 2003,
13 years ago. One of the challenges there is follow-up. I don't
think we need another report onto itself but we need a process.
So over the years I've done something like 20 different
National Academy reports. Oftentimes those reports end up on a
shelf collecting dust because there's no follow-up, and that's
why I recommended a decadal survey because it's mandated by
you. The agencies need to show cause if they differ from the
recommendations in the decadal survey. Five years into the
process--I mean after the report is written, there's a midterm
assessment to see whether or not the agencies are doing what
was encouraged, and then five years after that, there's another
decadal survey. So it's a process, it's not a one-off activity.
And it's not--we're not talking here about a bunch of
academics. It is this three-legged stool. One-third of my
colleagues here from the private sector, one-third from
academia, and you couldn't have the feds at the table but you
could have one-third composed of former senior government
officials now in industry like Sandy MacDonald. Myself, I spent
18 years in NASA as an SESR, then went into academia. So you
have--you're taking advantage of the best of the best.
Ms. Bonamici. Dr. Busalacchi, I don't mean to interrupt but
I want to get another question in before my time expires.
The employees of the National Weather Service work
tirelessly to serve our communities and assist, for example,
with natural disasters. My State of Oregon and the Northwest
have faced severe wildfires. Weather Service employees have
provided specialized forecasts tailored to those wildfires to
help firefighters safely and effectively extinguish them.
So the National Weather Service is a public good, so could
you explain why it's important that the Weather Service provide
the baseline forecasts? What other benefits are there of having
government-provided publicly accessible forecasts?
Dr. Busalacchi. So again, the vast majority of what my
colleagues have spoken to about here are founded upon the
publicly available forecasts and the data, and again, in terms
of the role of the government, in terms of protecting public
life, infrastructure and, again, homeland and national
security, we need to have the best of the best, and that goes
back to this three-legged stool: having the private sector
engaged, having academia and the research engaged, and having a
strong partner in the government as well. That's, in my
opinion, the only way that we could have the best of the best
and compete with the Europeans.
Ms. Bonamici. Terrific. Thank you.
My time's about to expire. I yield back. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Bridenstine. I thank the Ranking Member.
As I pass the baton here for one second, I'd like to get
Dr. MacDonald to respond to Dr. Busalacchi. You mentioned that
the movement from research to operations is going well. Dr.
MacDonald, do you agree with that? When you think about the
high-resolution rapid refresh model, didn't that sit on the
shelf for years?
Mr. MacDonald. I think the high-resolution rapid refresh
should have gone faster but I think it's a pretty fabulous
model and I'm exciting about that accomplishment.
In terms of how well we do research to operations, I think
a major point is that we can always do better. I think we
learned a lot where we said okay, we're going to have these big
community models and everybody can work on them. The point that
I'm making is, we did that for the regional models. I think we
want to do that now for the global models, and I think it's
crucial.
Chairman Bridenstine. Dr. Busalacchi, you're recognized.
Dr. Busalacchi. Thank you very much. Let me be very clear.
I think that's one of the fundamental differences between us
and the Europeans. I think the Europeans do a much better job
of the transition from research to operations, so again, what I
was trying to say is, we need to do better at sustaining
computing and we need to do a much better job of transition of
research to operations from the research community as well as
the private sector.
Chairman Bridenstine. Got it. Okay.
I'd like to recognize Mr. Weber from the State of Texas for
five minutes.
Mr. Weber. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
These will be for Dr. Jacobs. I'll start with you. Dr.
Jacobs, in your experience, in your opinion, does the federal
government and NOAA facilitate, hinder or resist commercial
weather opportunities and involvement?
Dr. Jacobs. I would say they facilitate it, particularly on
the data acquisition side. So there's been--we've had a very
good experience in working with them and contracting for
aircraft data. It's been a little tricky navigating the re
distribution rights issue but by and large we're very happy
with how things have gone, and I believe and they believe that
it's improving their mission, improving their models and
improving their forecasts.
Mr. Weber. Okay. Well, I didn't mean to put you on the spot
but I wanted to put you on the spot.
Dr. MacDonald, I'm going to come to you with the same
question, and Dr. Jacobs, I want you to think about it. You
said it was a little tricky. I'm going to give you a one minute
warning here to facilitate some of that stuff. You'll get your
chance to abuse the witness.
Dr. MacDonald, I'm going to come to you, same question. Do
you think NOAA facilitates, hinders or resists commercial
weather opportunities and involvement?
Mr. MacDonald. I think in our case, in Spire, we have good
hopes that we're going to have a great relationship with NOAA.
I appreciate Neil's comment because they've dealt with this
issue already, and he said it was tricky but they got through
it, so I'm really hoping that in our case with fabulous
satellite data we really have that opportunity to help the
world.
Mr. Weber. And Dr. Jacobs, back to you. Your one minute is
up. You said it was tricky in them doing it. How so?
Dr. Jacobs. So traditionally, per the WMO's Resolution 40,
most data that's produced by NOAA is redistributed freely to
the other government international met centers. That impacts
our business model because if we want to sell it to the
European center, we can't sell it to the European center if
NOAA buys it from us and gives it to the European center. There
is a provision in the WMO Resolution 40 that allows for
redistribution restrictions for commercially acquired data
provided it's defined as non-essential. So we've asked that
that be restricted for the purposes of sort of forcing the WMO
members into a cost-sharing model. So if we actually prevent
redistribution, then we get to charge NOAA less because we can
actually sell it to the other government international met
centers, thereby sort of forcing a cost-sharing model on all
the government agencies worldwide.
Mr. Weber. But I'm assuming you make up that income
difference by selling it to the other agencies?
Dr. Jacobs. We're currently in contract discussions with
both the European center and the U.K. met office for data
acquisition. Every government met center has their own special
needs. For example, some smaller countries don't even run a
global model so they're only interested in the regional data
around their domain.
Mr. Weber. Okay. This really, I guess, is a question for
the three on the right here. We'll start back with you, Dr.
Jacobs. Do you see any bias from NOAA in certain weather
predictions? In other words, I'm speaking specifically about
climate change, global warming, sea-level rise. Are you seeing
any bias whatsoever?
Dr. Jacobs. Most of the forecasting that Panasonic is
involved in is in the zero- to 2-week range. Every numerical
model has its own unique bias characteristics but that's more
in the weather, not really so much in the climate.
Mr. Weber. Fair enough.
Is it Busalacchi? Is that how you say it?
Dr. Busalacchi. Perfect.
Mr. Weber. Okay.
Dr. Busalacchi. With respect to the science of weather and
climate, absolutely no bias at all.
Mr. Weber. That's good to hear.
Dr. Busalacchi. What I say, though, is with respect to
model development for weather, the agency faces almost a catch-
22. If they choose a model that's developed in-house, they will
be criticized by the external community for a ``not invented
here'' syndrome. If they choose a model from the community
that's not invented within the agency, they're going to get
criticized, well, why are you making this investment inside the
agency when you can get it outside. So they're darned if they
do and they're darned if they don't.
Mr. Weber. All right. I'm going to move over to you, Dr.
MacDonald.
Mr. MacDonald. I do not see bias. I see scientists who
argue about all aspects of it, and with reports like IPCC and
others, I think it's well represented, and no, I don't see a
bias.
Mr. Weber. Okay. That's good to hear.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
Dr. Jacobs, just to follow up, if you--if your goal is to
sell data to the Europeans or your goal is to sell data to
NOAA, why did you build your own model?
Dr. Jacobs. Well, part of the reason for that was, we can't
fully subsidize the cost of collecting the data so to run the
data off the aircraft through SATCOM is quite expensive. So we
offset that by generating products and services. The main
reason why we actually run the models is to do quality control
on the data because what we wanted to do is have the customers
get the best value and impact of the data.
Chairman Bridenstine. So it's to test the data? That's----
--
Dr. Jacobs. It's to test, and when we do provide the data,
we provide a set of quality control flags along with the data.
Those are derived from the data assimilation component in our
model.
Chairman Bridenstine. Okay.
I'd like to recognize the Ranking Member of the full
Committee, Mrs. Johnson, for five minutes.
Mrs. Johnson of Texas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Busalacchi, I think what I'm hearing is that the NWS
and the U.S. best work together or are at their best working
together. Is that right?
Dr. Busalacchi. That's correct. Again, I think a unique
strength of our approach, the U.S. approach to the Nation's
weather enterprise, is when the government, the private sector
and the research community are working together all towards a
common purpose. That's correct.
Mrs. Johnson of Texas. I have seen a great improvement in
weather predictions, and I hope that'll continue to improve
because I've also seen where it saved a lot of lives even
though in many cases there might be property destroyed. Lives
are being saved because of those projections and people have
time to get out of the way.
We also talk a lot on this Committee about changes killing
jobs, and I'm trying to figure out if it's privatized, what
would happen to these seasoned employees that are government
workers?
Dr. Busalacchi. So I'm sure there's great concern within
the agency. I mean, I used to be--the two of us used to be
civil servants and so they provide this core support that has
allowed over the last 20 years my colleagues here in the
private sector to build off that. If that core support is gone,
we may have some near-term gains but in the mid to long term
the enterprise may well collapse on itself because that core of
the data and these foundational models just won't be there for
the private sector to flourish.
Mrs. Johnson of Texas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield
back.
Chairman Bridenstine. The gentlelady yields back.
I'd like to recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Babin,
for five minutes.
Mr. Babin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. And
thank you, witnesses, for being here.
I'd like to ask my first question of Mr. Myers of
AccuWeather. Mr. Myers, who makes up the American weather
industry, quote, unquote, and what steps could be taken to
improve cooperative relationships between NOAA and these
companies? If you could elaborate on that, I would appreciate
it.
Mr. Myers. Well, I think different people have different
definitions of what constitutes the American weather industry.
If you look at some of the groups like the Weather Coalition or
the American Weather and Climate Industry Association, they're
very welcoming of all members who touch upon any form of
weather information and forecasts from the data collection
itself all the way through the modeling and to the distributors
of information. So I think the definition is relatively broad.
Your second question was?
Mr. Babin. What could we do to improve cooperative
relationships between NOAA and these particular companies that
you just mentioned?
Mr. Myers. Well, this has been an ongoing effort at least
that I've been involved in for 20-some years actively, and I
think that it is generally improved. If you looked at a chart,
it would be on the upswing. I think there needs to be further
interaction at all levels of NOAA. I think that NOAA could
benefit from better understanding exactly what the value is
that the weather industry brings to the whole weather
enterprise. We do get a lot of that recognition now in many of
the management areas. A number of years ago when you talked
about these things, it was looked upon as though we were
competing somehow with what the government does but quite to
the contrary, I have been here to testify and on other
committees many times in support of funding for NOAA and the
job that they do. I think that things like the EISG committee
as part of the SAB for NOAA has over the last six or seven
years it's been in existence has been very beneficial in
interacting and enhancing that communication, and I think
activities like that need to continue and be strengthened.
Mr. Babin. Okay. Thank you. And in your mind, what is the
goal of weather forecasts in the future? How far out will we be
able to accurately predict the weather, and are there specific
goals for the next five, ten, fifteen years?
Mr. Myers. Well, I know at AccuWeather, we're constantly
pushing the envelope, and we sometimes get criticized for doing
so. We launched a 90-day forecast, for example, that has day-
by-day predictions that some have made a joke of, but the fact
is that there's actual science behind it. I know when we first
started introducing a 5-day forecast decades ago, people said
the same thing: ``You can't do it.'' I think that there is no
end to what you can do. Our accuracy, for example, with tornado
and hurricane forecasting is literally amazing. We have had
plants evacuated 20 minutes before they've been totally
destroyed by tornados and saved all the lives inside. The U.S.
Congress in its report on Hurricane Katrina talked about how
AccuWeather was in fact the only organization that had it right
and far enough in advance.
So there are lots of things that can be done. I think that
better understanding of what in fact the private sector does in
forecasting is very important because we do specialize in a
number of areas and activities, and even outside independent
sources now that do ranking of forecasts have shown that the
AccuWeather forecasts are actually statistically more valid
than anybody's, and there are ways that that happens. It's not
just magic.
Mr. Babin. Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
I recognize the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Perlmutter.
Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. I was told I had to go very,
very, very last since I'm not on the Committee, so I'm happy to
go or I'm happy to wait my turn.
Chairman Bridenstine. We'll let you go.
Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you, sir.
And to the panelist from Colorado, welcome. Dr. MacDonald,
good to see you. Dr. Busalacchi, nice to have you. And
gentlemen, I appreciate the testimony because one of the things
I'm hearing generally is that there's an effort to work
together to improve weather forecasting, predictions across the
board, and as we've talked about in this Committee, for life,
for property, for commerce, looking at those things, and a lot
of the conversation that we've had when it comes to, you know,
industry participating in weather forecasting is really just a
matter of contract, you know, who's going to get this
advantage, who's going to get that advantage, who gets the
redistribution rights, what are the royalties, those kinds of
things, and if you're actually having a conversation and a
dialogue, which it sounds like you are, then you can work out
those contractual matters, and I appreciate the efforts being
taken by everybody in this respect.
And Dr. Busalacchi, congratulations on your appointment to
head UCAR, and obviously that's a very important organization
for Colorado at the National Climate and Atmospheric Research
Center. So I appreciate the efforts to continue to work
together because I do think it's a three-legged stool as you're
talking about. You've got academia, the private sector and
government because the one thing we know is the private sector
is interested in profits, and that's okay. That's the way it
works. And if there isn't profits, then the question is, is
that private company going to be altruistic and look out for
the public good. Sometimes maybe yes but mostly no because
they've got to talk to their shareholders and provide for their
shareholders.
So having given that little speech, Dr. Busalacchi, some
entities such as some of the companies represented today that
the Weather Service should focus on its core forecasting
functions and should not duplicate services that are already
provided by the private sector. What's your opinion of that?
Although I'm not sure I ever heard them say that.
Dr. Busalacchi. No, I didn't hear it either, and one of the
issues is, you know, who's going to arbitrate. So again, the
role of the government, as I said before, is protection of
life, property, support of economic competitiveness, and
homeland and national security, and to do that, the government
needs to be in the cutting edge and have these foundational
data sets where we are the best in the world and then also have
these free and open models so that my colleagues here can build
upon it but again that those models need to be the best of the
best, and as my colleague Sandy mentioned, the best way of
being the best of the best is this community approach, taking
advantage of the strengths of the academic community and the
strengths of the private sector so that these core foundational
models are at the forefront and the world's best.
Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. And I'm going to turn to you,
Dr. MacDonald, in just a second, but I wanted to thank all
three legs of the school: academia, government and private
industry. We have some constituents who were missing during
Cyclone Winston down in the Fiji area, which was a huge storm
down there, and among the three, we were able to determine even
though there was no communication that the path of the storm
kind of bypassed them, and it brought a lot of comfort to the
family members in my district. So NCAR and UCAR helped me, NOAA
helped me, and Digital Globe and a number of other companies,
so thank you.
So Dr. MacDonald, my question to you is, now that you moved
from the NOAA world to Spire, how do you see the collaboration
and the cooperation?
Mr. MacDonald. Well, I think it's going to take time to,
you know, learn how to get the kind of relationships that we
need. What I see is that--I joined Spire basically because I
see a fabulous capability that could become available, you
know, very quick and that I don't think would in the normal
course of our federal acquisition be available anywhere near as
fast, so my hope is we work great together and we get better
weather forecasts a lot sooner because of this situation.
Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. I yield back.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for letting me go out of order.
Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
A couple of important points I'd like to make, because
there is a balancing act here between the public good and the
private sector, and I think all of us on both sides of the
aisle agree that we absolutely must have a government backbone
because it is for the lives and safety of our citizens but also
for the property of Americans. So I agree with that completely.
I also believe that there's a commercial industry
launching. Whether it's devices that are on aircraft or whether
it's devices that are on satellites, at the end of the day
they're going to be selling data to the commercial sector, and
if by selling to NOAA, NOAA gives the data way for free, then
they will never sell to NOAA and the public sector will miss
out on critically valuable pieces of information that
ultimately could save lives and property. So this is a
balancing act that we're going to have to figure out why this
Committee is so important.
I'd like to recognize Mr. Westerman for 2 minutes. We have
to be on the Floor of the House technically at 10:35, so we're
going to go to 2-minute questions, so get your most important
ones ready, and we'll go from there.
So Mr. Westerman, you're recognized for 2 minutes.
Mr. Westerman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Myers, you reference in your testimony the widespread
use of smart devices these days. With the ever-expanding
ability of crowdsourcing as a tool such with the success of the
traffic app Waze, do you see this being applied to weather
reporting in any way?
Mr. Myers. Yes, absolutely it will be. The collection of
information through crowdsourcing, through vehicle sensors and
a whole host of other things is an important area. It's one
that we have worked in extensively. In fact, we had one of the
first patents having to do with the collection and reporting of
severe weather through mobile devices, which, interestingly,
for the Committee, we license for free to the National Weather
Service because they were using that capability, and we felt it
was so important. You know, people talk about the private
sector but if you look at the company mission for AccuWeather,
it starts out to protect lives and property, not to make a
profit, not that we don't want to make a profit but--and it's
our mission statement. Yes, it is. In fact, if you look at ours
and the Weather Service's next to each other, you have a very
hard time distinguishing the difference.
I think that's true of most of the people that are in this
field. They feel a strong obligation to the public to do these
things, and constantly looking for ways to improve by using
this kind of information.
Mr. Westerman. And because we're limited in time, I'll just
ask Mr. Block if he'd like to add to that.
Mr. Block. Well, I certainly agree with a lot of the things
that Barry is saying. In fact, we serve--my company serves over
a thousand public emergency managers with our systems and our
capabilities, and a lot of that information comes from NOAA,
but it's disseminated--it's our systems that are actually the
means of dissemination so for Schneider Electric, it's very
important that we continue to work closely with NOAA and make
sure that we're not in a competitive situation but in a
cooperative one.
Mr. Westerman. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
The gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Palmer, is recognized for
two minutes.
Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Jacobs, I read an article where it talked about
Panasonic's weather forecasting model that's among the best and
maybe even the very best in the world, and there were some
questions raised about whether or not Panasonic would share
that model with NOAA or other organizations. Could you comment
on that, please?
Dr. Jacobs. Yes. Those--we do intend to share the
information. What sort of form the information is shared in may
depend on the licensing arrangement and redistribution rights
obviously. Sharing the gridded data would be a lot different
than sharing visual plots of model output, which can convey the
same information, but the gridded data can actually be used for
product generation, and if they redistributed the gridded data,
it would negatively impact our business model. There are
certain things that we can provide the Weather Service with to
help improve their mission that wouldn't negatively impact our
business model, and we would certainly do that.
Mr. Palmer. How would Panasonic share information, for
instance, with NOAA, you know, to provide necessary information
to protect lives and property?
Dr. Jacobs. Well, a good example of that would be the
aircraft data. So we currently have a contract to sell NOAA a
subset of our aircraft data, but in times in the past when
there's been a national emergency, we typically define that as
when the National Weather Service decides to do supplemental
radiosonde launches at either 16 or 18 Z. When those alerts are
issued, we will activate the full feed to pipe them the
remainder of the data at no charge.
Mr. Palmer. Well, considering that Panasonic claims to have
the world's best, and I hope you do, I think this Committee
would join me in looking forward to seeing that model.
I yield back.
Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
And I'd like to--for Mr. Myers, regarding giving the data
away for free, from my assessment, I absolutely 100 percent am
committed if the government is creating the data with taxpayer
money, that is public data, and I fully support making sure
that that data is available to the world as part of our WMO 40
agreements. It's the commercial data that is licensed that we
have to be concerned about because if we don't do it right,
then that commercial data will never be created, and if it's
not created, then it can't be a public good for anybody.
I'm going to go to Mr. Rohrabacher here in just a few
minutes. Ms. Bonamici had a quick question. Would you mind if I
yielded to her for one minute?
Ms. Bonamici.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I just wanted, Dr. Busalacchi, if you could address what
process is involved in validating the models and forecasts that
are disseminated by the National Weather Service? Because if
we're talking about or contemplating greater use of private
data forecasts or models, should there be some similar
validation or verification process before potential use in
operational NWS forecasts?
Dr. Busalacchi. So anything in the public domain is fully
vetted, it's transparent. When dealing with the private sector,
we have to talk about validation, verification, transparency.
Our particular company, are their getting the right results or
good results for the right reason? Can it be replicated? Can it
be tested? That's all part and parcel of the scientific method,
but at the same time, sometimes that's in conflict with
intellectual property. But in terms of the public good, it has
to be transparent, it has to be traceable in the peer-reviewed
literature, absolutely.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Chairman Bridenstine. The gentlelady yields back.
I now recognize Mr. Rohrabacher for two minutes.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Just some fundamentals. How many weather satellites are
there? When was the first weather satellite put into orbit?
Mr. Block. I believe that the first weather satellite was
launched in the early 1960s. It was the TIROS satellite.
Mr. Rohrabacher. I remember--Mr. Chairman, I remember
sitting through a hurricane back in the 1950s. We had almost no
advance notice on it, and I'll just note that what we're
talking about here saves not only lives, which are very
important, probably thousands of lives, but also billions and
billions of dollars. In that way, this is an industry that's
paying for itself in so many ways, and the fact that the
private sector is now deeply involved in this I think this is a
very--an American story of success, and I want to thank the
witnesses for enlightening us today as to details.
One last--I'm sorry--perhaps a little bit more
controversial question is, are experiencing more severe weather
incidences today than they did 100 years ago? Just a yes or no
down the line if I could.
Mr. Myers. Not being a scientist, I'm going to pass on that
question.
Mr. Rohrabacher. All right.
Mr. Block. I think the answer is yes, there is more--there
are more instances of severe weather, but it's largely a
function of the population and the urbanized areas increasing
in size so there's more people to observe them.
Dr. Jacobs. I would agree with that answer. I think that
there's a lot more observations so it tends to show------
Mr. Rohrabacher. So in other words, it's not more severe
weather, it's just that we see more of it, especially now that
we have so many satellites up there?
Dr. Jacobs. Well, we don't necessarily know for sure
because the inverse of that would be, there were no observing
systems or observers back then, so we don't know if it was
happening or not.
Mr. Rohrabacher. All right.
Dr. Busalacchi. So where we have long contiguous records,
we do see an increase in extremes. In addition, we have an
increase in population that's becoming more vulnerable to those
extremes.
Mr. MacDonald. I think Tony's answer captures my thoughts.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
I'd like to thank the witnesses for their valuable
testimony and the members for their questions.
The record will remain open for two weeks for additional
comments and written questions from members.
Appendix I
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Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
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