[House Hearing, 113 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] U.S. COUNTERNARCOTICS OPERATIONS IN AFGHANISTAN ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA OF THE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ FEBRUARY 5, 2014 __________ Serial No. 113-120 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/ or http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/ _____ U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 86-589 PDF WASHINGTON : 2014 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; DC area (202) 512-1800 Fax: (202) 512-2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402-0001 COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American DANA ROHRABACHER, California Samoa STEVE CHABOT, Ohio BRAD SHERMAN, California JOE WILSON, South Carolina GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey TED POE, Texas GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia MATT SALMON, Arizona THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania BRIAN HIGGINS, New York JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina KAREN BASS, California ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts MO BROOKS, Alabama DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island TOM COTTON, Arkansas ALAN GRAYSON, Florida PAUL COOK, California JUAN VARGAS, California GEORGE HOLDING, North Carolina BRADLEY S. SCHNEIDER, Illinois RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas JOSEPH P. KENNEDY III, Massachusetts SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania AMI BERA, California STEVE STOCKMAN, Texas ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California RON DeSANTIS, Florida GRACE MENG, New York DOUG COLLINS, Georgia LOIS FRANKEL, Florida MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii TED S. YOHO, Florida JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas LUKE MESSER, Indiana Amy Porter, Chief of Staff Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director ------ Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida, Chairman STEVE CHABOT, Ohio THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida JOE WILSON, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois BRIAN HIGGINS, New York TOM COTTON, Arkansas DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas ALAN GRAYSON, Florida RON DeSANTIS, Florida JUAN VARGAS, California DOUG COLLINS, Georgia BRADLEY S. SCHNEIDER, Illinois MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina JOSEPH P. KENNEDY III, Massachusetts TED S. YOHO, Florida GRACE MENG, New York LUKE MESSER, Indiana LOIS FRANKEL, Florida C O N T E N T S ---------- Page WITNESSES The Honorable William R. Brownfield, Assistant Secretary of State, Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, U.S. Department of State.............................. 6 Mr. James L. Capra, Chief of Operations, Drug Enforcement Administration, U.S. Department of Justice..................... 14 Ms. Erin Logan, Principal Director for Counternarcotics and Global Threats, Office of the Under Secretary of Defense, U.S. Department of Defense.......................................... 25 LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING The Honorable William R. Brownfield: Prepared statement.......... 8 Mr. James L. Capra: Prepared statement........................... 16 Ms. Erin Logan: Prepared statement............................... 27 APPENDIX Hearing notice................................................... 54 Hearing minutes.................................................. 55 U.S. COUNTERNARCOTICS OPERATIONS IN AFGHANISTAN ---------- WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2014 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa, Committee on Foreign Affairs, Washington, DC. The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2 o'clock p.m., in room 2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Ileana Ros- Lehtinen (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. The subcommittee will come to order because you have been patiently awaiting us for a while, and Mr. Cicilline is coming right on cue. After recognizing myself and the ranking member, Ted Deutch, for 5 minutes each for our opening statements, I will then recognize other members seeking recognition for 1 minute each. We will then hear from our witnesses, and without objection the witnesses' prepared statements will be made a part of the record, and members may have 5 days in which to insert statements and questions for the record subject to the length limitation in the rules. The Chair recognizes herself for 5 minutes. Since Fiscal Year 2002, the U.S. has appropriated almost $7.5 billion for counternarcotics efforts in Afghanistan. This funding includes over $4 billion for the Department of State's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, INL; nearly $3 billion for the Department of Defense Drug Interdiction and Counter Drug activities, and just over $200 million for the Drug Enforcement Administration, DEA. This amounts to about 7 percent of the $102 billion the U.S. has appropriated for relief and reconstruction in Afghanistan over that period of time. Last year alone we allocated nearly $1 billion toward these counternarcotics efforts. This is a significant amount of U.S. taxpayer money, and it is extremely important that this subcommittee continue to conduct its oversight role to ensure that we are achieving our goals and objectives, and that this money is being properly spent. Yet, despite all of this money being spent, 2013 was a record-breaking year in terms of poppy cultivation in Afghanistan. Afghanistan produced over 80 percent of the world's opium last year, and the illegal drug trade is a contributing factor to many of the major challenges facing Afghanistan and the U.S. The drug trade helps to generate hundreds of millions of dollars for the Taliban and other extremist groups every year. It creates an increase in corruption, and it creates a very serious public health challenge in Afghanistan as more and more Afghans get addicted to the readily available drugs. The narco-terrorism connection is particularly troubling given the vast sums of money extremist groups can extract from the drug trade and to fund terrorist activities against the United States and our interests worldwide. And the money drug trafficking generates permeates its way through all levels of government, as corruption and drug trafficking in Afghanistan go hand in hand. Last May, I led a codel to Afghanistan and had Foreign Affairs Committee colleagues, Mr. Kennedy and Dr. Bera along, and we had the opportunity to see firsthand the work that the INL, DoD, and the DEA are doing on the counternarcotics front, and get briefed by the folks on the ground about the current situation. We also visited the DEA Center in Afghanistan, and it was quite impressive to see their operations and how their programs are run. I commend these brave men and women for doing their absolute best to fight this very serious problems with their resources. The amount of capacity-building, specialty training, and information sharing that INL, DoD, and DEA have done is a testament to their commitment to aggressively fight this threat. And though there have been great strides made, I remain worried about the future of counternarcotics efforts in Afghanistan as we approach the 2014 withdrawal with even greater uncertainty. All of our counternarcotics efforts in Afghanistan to this point have relied heavily on a robust U.S. military presence. To add insult to injury, Karzai has not been willing to provide vital resources to help the eradication teams in Afghanistan. As a result of the U.S. drawdown, many of our operations have had to be scaled back, and we have reduced our counternarcotics presence in Afghanistan in conjunction with the dwindling number of troops. And now with the post-2014 U.S. footprint still in doubt, we are making it even more difficult for these agencies that will have to make corresponding decreases in their enduring presence and to make adjustments to their operations. I'm concerned that because DEA personnel is being scaled back by over 70 percent, our counternarcotics efforts will be undermined and will not be successful. As Ambassador Brownfield notes in his testimony, these counternarcotics efforts do not take place in a vacuum. Addressing the drug issue in Afghanistan is a key part of our overall strategy for Afghanistan and for the overall war on terror. So much attention has been given to the Bilateral Security Agreement, the upcoming elections in April, and the mercurial nature of Karzai that we must not lose sight of the counternarcotics threat that poses a direct threat to our national security and the regional stability. And now I'd be glad to turn to Mr. Cicilline for any opening statements that he would like to make. Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Chairman Ros-Lehtinen and Ranking Member Deutch for holding today's hearing on this very important issue. As we continue drawing down combat operations in Afghanistan it's increasingly the responsibility of the Afghan people to operate, build, and maintain their own civilian and military capacity. The United States has built an important foundation for Afghanistan's future, but long-term stability and a sustainable peace in the region can only be accomplished when the people of Afghanistan take on these responsibilities. Unfortunately, ongoing and prevalent narcotics activity in Afghanistan has led to aggressive momentum in many areas, narcotics activities correlated with political and economic instability, and has a substantial effect on the quality of life. The United States must continue to monitor counternarcotics efforts in Afghanistan to determine how U.S. interests may be best served as we transition our combat forces out of the country. I look forward to hearing the perspectives of the witnesses we have assembled to discuss U.S. counternarcotics efforts in Afghanistan, and how they will shape our relationship going forward. And with that, I'd like to yield the balance of my time to our ranking member, Mr. Deutch. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Well, thank you so much, Mr. Cicilline. And we are pleased to give the time to Mr. Deutch to make his opening statement, and then we will turn to Mr. Brooks for a minute statement, et cetera. Thank you. Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and I thank my friend from Rhode Island. And thanks, Madam Chairman, for holding this hearing. While most of our discussions about Afghanistan are focused on troop numbers and reconciliation talks, counternarcotics is an issue that's going to play a significant role in shaping Afghanistan's long-term future. Afghanistan's narcotics trade has been a financial boon for the insurgency in Afghanistan as the world's number one producer of opium providing 80 percent of the world's heroin supply. Afghan drugs make their way to Russia, to Europe, and just over the border to Iran where the drug addiction rate is the highest in the world. The illicit drug trade in Afghanistan accounts for close to half of the Taliban's budget. The undeniable link between drug money and terrorism funding means that this isn't just an Afghan threat, it is an international security threat. For many years, U.S. efforts to combat the illicit Afghan drug trade focus on poppy eradication, but the emphasis on eradication did little to actually alleviate the drug production problem. The focus on eradication instead left rural farmers without a steady income and more vulnerable to the law of extremism or other black market economic activities, but economic opportunity and security go hand in hand. Programs to replace poppies with alternative crops won't succeed unless there is a more holistic approach. Simply giving farmers what seeds to plant in lieu of poppies won't do anything if Afghan wheat has not been marketed as a viable option to importers. Efforts to improve Afghanistan's agriculture exports will only decrease the desire for Afghan farmers to cultivate the poppy. They'll strengthen Afghanistan's legitimate economy instead of propping up the black market drug trade. Programs like the Hellman Food Zone, a comprehensive effort funded by the U.S., Britain, and Denmark not only established alternative crops, but provided for crop storage and overland shipping routes out of the province. That's seeing success, and I hope we have success replicating these efforts in Kandahar and elsewhere around the country. I know that many see the rise in poppy cultivation as an indicator that counternarcotics operations have failed, but we have, in fact, seen real and serious progress in many of our joint counternarcotics programs, most notably interdiction efforts with DEA as the lead law enforcement agency have led to vetted and trained units of counternarcotics police of Afghanistan. As Mr. Capra will explain in his testimony, these units have led to close to 2,500 operations that resulted in over 2,200 arrests in the past 9 months. This is a good news story. Narcotics trade and terrorism funding go hand in hand across the globe, and I commend the DEA's activities to combat this worldwide, but in a country as frail as Afghanistan, and as fragile as Afghanistan is, the security risks from propping up insurgents with hundreds of millions of dollars to fund their operations can't be overstated. The United States trained and supported Counternarcotics Justice Center heard 700 drug cases last year, but without proper support from the Afghan Government, the CNJC has largely prosecuted low-level couriers. I commend Ambassador Brownfield and his team, and INL for the work that they've done to support efforts to go after high- level traffickers which resulted in the successful prosecution and incarceration of a U.S. designated drug kingpin, but the fact remains the United States alone cannot stop the Afghan drug trade. We can provide the Afghan Government with the necessary training and support, but no amount of funding can provide the political will to aggressively confront all aspects of drug production and trafficking. I do believe that there are elements of the Afghan Government deeply committed to counternarcotics. The Minister of Counternarcotics said last month that there is a need for severe punishment of traffickers, adding, ``I hope that in 2014 we will witness a declining trend in both cultivation and production of opium.'' So, as we look ahead to the future of U.S. operations in Afghanistan, we have to turn our focus to ways to help the Afghans sustain the counternarcotics regime that we have helped them build. What can we do to insure that the programs we have worked so hard to build from the Afghan Counternarcotics Police, to the prosecutors of the Counternarcotics Justice Center, and the staff of the hundred drug treatment centers, what can we do to help those continue to function with a decreased U.S. presence? And how can we ensure that our reduced security operations don't stretch the Afghan security forces so thin that counternarcotics simply becomes an afterthought. The U.S. has never conducted counternarcotics operations of this scale in a war zone, and I commend our witnesses for the work that your agencies have done in a most challenging environment. I look forward to hearing from each of you, and I yield back. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Amen. Thank you so much. Mr. Cotton, we're pleased to hear from you. Okay. Mr. Weber. Mr. Weber. I'm going to follow the Senator's lead. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Okay, let me see. Who's there next to you? Mr. Collins. Oh, boy, oh, boy, pithy, very pithy. Mr. Cotton. We've kept the witnesses waiting long enough. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Okay, thank you. Ms. Meng here? Thank you. Ms. Meng. Don't worry, mine is brief. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman and Ranking Member Deutch for holding this important hearing. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today, as well. U.S. operations in Afghanistan are critical to the security of the United States, especially now that our decade long military presence will be decreasing. Concentrating on counternarcotics operations is essential. Afghanistan remains the world's primary source of opium poppy cultivation and has a large hand in drug production and distribution. Drug trafficking funnels money into terrorist groups and contributes to economic and political instability. The drug trade in Afghanistan threatens not only the country itself, but also the entire Middle East region and the United States. Therefore, I'm very interested in how the U.S. can sustain and improve its counternarcotics operations in Afghanistan. I look forward to hearing from today's panelists from the Departments of State, Justice, and Defense about this serious problem. Thank you. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Ms. Meng. My Florida colleague, Ms. Frankel, is recognized. Ms. Frankel. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for this hearing, and thank you to the witnesses for being here. And I will listen with great interest and reserve my questions. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, ma'am. And Mr. Connolly is recognized. Mr. Connolly. Well, Madam Chairwoman, as you know, I served on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee many years ago where I looked at the drug problem. I have to say it's deja vu all over again when I look at this data. You know, we invest a lot of money, we have a lot of personnel, and let's see, opium cultivation increased by 36 percent between 2012 and 2013 to a record 516,000 acres in Afghanistan, a country where we have troops, we've been fighting a war, difficult but we have a lot more control than if we're not there. And it just--I'm going to be real interested in hearing about progress and what we mean by progress, because what I see is the United States, frankly, losing this war. I don't want it to lose the war, but I'm skeptical about the progress, the milestones being alleged, so I look forward to hearing the testimony of our witnesses. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Connolly. And we thank the witnesses for their wonderful patience waiting an hour to start our hearing. But I always say as a Cuban refugee who lost her homeland to communism, I love getting interrupted by votes. This is not a problem. And first we welcome a dear friend to our subcommittee and to me personally, Ambassador William Brownfield, Assistant Secretary at the State Department's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs. Prior to his appointment, Ambassador Brownfield was U.S. Ambassador to Colombia, to Venezuela, and to Chile, and has served as Deputy Assistant Secretary for Western Hemisphere Affairs. He holds the personal rank of Career Ambassador, the highest rank in the U.S. Foreign Service. Welcome again, Mr. Ambassador. I think both of us would agree that we would enjoy spending today in a field hearing in Miami instead of being in DC, but welcome. And next we're so pleased to welcome a gentleman who also has a Miami connection. It's just a coincidence, honestly. We welcome Mr. James Capra who is Chief of Operations at the Drug Enforcement Administration. Mr. Capra has had a long and distinguished career in law enforcement having served in numerous roles in DEA including a Special Agent in Charge of the Dallas Field Division, and before this as Associate Special Agent in Charge of the Miami Field Division. Prior to his career in law enforcement, Mr. Capra served in the United States Navy, the Navy Reserves, the Air National Guard, and as a military intelligence officer with the U.S. Army Reserves. Thank you, sir, for being with us. And third, I'm so pleased to welcome to our subcommittee hearing Ms. Erin Logan, Principal Director for Counternarcotics and Global Threats for the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense. She previously served as the Chief of Staff and Special Assistant for the Assistant Secretary of Defense in the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy. Prior to this, she was a senior professional staff member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee where she was a primary advisor to then-Senator Joe Biden on defense issues. I believe that we has someone here on the dias who has some kind of connection to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I'm not sure who it is, Mr. Connolly, but we welcome all three of you to our subcommittee. And, Ambassador Brownfield, we will begin with you, amigo. STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE WILLIAM R. BROWNFIELD, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE, BUREAU OF INTERNATIONAL NARCOTICS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE Ambassador Brownfield. Thank you, Madam Chairman, Ranking Member Deutch, members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear today to discuss counternarcotics efforts in Afghanistan. I agree with you, Madam Chairman, far better were we having this meeting today in Miami, but we will meet where we are and deal with the world as it is, not as we might wish it would be. Ladies and gentlemen, I have just returned from Afghanistan last week and I look forward to sharing my observations on this essential topic. Members of the committee, we know that Afghanistan is the source of more than 80 percent of the world's illegal opiates, and that drugs represent the largest domestic source of income for the Taliban, but there are key facts that we do not know. We do not know the security picture we will encounter after 2014, or the exact contours of the bilateral relationship, or the resources that will be available to us, or the posture of the international community. We have learned lessons in the past 40 years about anti- drug programs. We learned that drug strategies take time. It takes years to get into a crisis, and years to resolve it. The strategy must be comprehensive. You cannot solve a crisis by addressing just one element. And the strategy must be adaptable, capable of responding to inevitable changes by the trafficking adversary. Last week in Kabul I discussed INL assistant efforts with the Minister of Counternarcotics and the Minister of Interior. We agreed on the need for a multifaceted approach with strong Afghan Government leadership. We concluded that our drug cooperation should be driven by five guiding principles. First, focus on sustainable Afghan capabilities. Capacity building is more important than equipment, and must be sustainable over the long term. Second, emphasize Afghan priorities and strategies. If there is no Afghan buy-in our strategies will not succeed. Third, deliver on previous commitments. If we lose the trust of the Afghan people cooperation withers. Fourth, integrate international donors and regional partners into the strategy. We cannot do this alone, and they consume far more of the Afghan product than we do. And fifth, given changing security and resource realities after 2014, we must adapt our monitoring and evaluation strategies to continue to insure taxpayer funds are protected and our programs are as effective as they can be. Members of the committee, you will in my written statement a summary of our counter drug programs in Afghanistan. You will read of programs designed to address crop control, eradication, alternative development, interdiction, prosecution, training and capacity building, and demand reduction. You will read of some of our efforts to engage important international partners in the United Nations, the UK, other European institutions, and Central Asian governments. You will read of our proposed tiered approach to monitoring and evaluation where we use the best available sources to evaluate our programs in the field in light of security and resources. I hope you find a comprehensive and sustainable drug strategy. Madam Chairman, I detect pessimism in some media reporting on Afghan drugs. I do not share it any more than I shared the pessimism of those who still reported in 2007 that Plan Colombia was a failure. Counternarcotics is critical to the success of Afghanistan post-2014, and requires continued support and attention. I do not promise you success this year or next year, but I do promise with your support a sustainable and adaptable counternarcotics strategy that builds capacities for the Afghan Government to address drug challenges post-2014. I thank you and I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Ambassador Brownfield follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] ---------- Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. Mr. Capra. STATEMENT OF MR. JAMES L. CAPRA, CHIEF OF OPERATIONS, DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE Mr. Capra. Chairman Ros-Lehtinen, Ranking Member Deutch and distinguished members of the subcommittee, on behalf of Administrator Leonhart and the Drug Enforcement Administration, I appreciate your invitation to testify today regarding DEA's counternarcotics strategy in Afghanistan. Madam Chairman, I ask that my written statement be included in the record. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Without objection. Mr. Capra. Before I get started I would like to thank you, Madam Chairman and Representative Kennedy, for visiting the DEA compound during your last trip. I'd also like to take this opportunity to extend the invitation to any interested committee members for a similar visit. DEA focuses international efforts on identifying and combating drug trafficking organizations that pose the greatest threat to U.S. interests. We accomplish this by analyzing illicit drug cultivation, manufacturing and transporting trends, transportation trends, tracking the flow of illicit proceeds and money laundering patterns, assessing the law enforcement capabilities and potential growth of our foreign counterparts, providing mentorship, training, and other assistance to help those counterparts build capacity and achieve strategic and tactical effectiveness, supporting programs promoting the Rule of Law worldwide and unifying and harmonizing efforts to bring to justice transnational drug traffickers and narcoterrorists. The United Nations has estimated that the international drug trade generates $322 billion per year in revenue, making drugs by far the most lucrative illicit activity. According to the U.N., revenues from other types of transnational criminal activities such as arms trafficking and alien smuggling are small by comparison. The narcotics trade in Afghanistan undermines the economic development, enables corruption, erodes government legitimacy, facilitates transnational organized crime, and threatens stability and security in the Rule of Law in Afghanistan and across the region. The Taliban receives millions annually from the narcotics- related activities. With poppy cultivation increasing in the country, it can be assumed Taliban profits will also continue to rise fueling further instability worldwide. DEA is fully supportive of the Government of Afghanistan and its national drug control strategy. This strategy reaffirms U.S. commitment to breaking the narcotics insurgency nexus in Afghanistan and reinforcing the legitimacy of governmental institution. With the expected drawdown of U.S. combat forces, DEA efforts will remain focused on supporting counternarcotics programs which are both effective and sustainable. We understand these challenges. With the assistance of our interagency colleagues we stand ready to tackle the mission. DEA will transition our role in Afghanistan to correspond with traditional DEA overseas operations. We will continue to collect drug-related intelligence supporting domestic DEA investigations, as well as joint investigation with our host nation counterparts. To meet this commitment, DEA must maintain a sufficient staffing level in Afghanistan. DEA continues to develop the capability and capacity of the special vetted units of the counternarcotics police in Afghanistan to address the illicit drug trade. Our Afghan partners are already conducting independent investigations and trying and convicting drug traffickers in Afghan courts. The threat from the drug trade in Afghanistan is far from over. It is critical that we sustain the positive momentum to preserve security gains made over the past decade. Administrator Leonhart and the men and women of the DEA are committed to standing with our interagency colleagues and Afghan counterparts to build a sustainable and effective counternarcotics program in Afghanistan that protects U.S. national security interests. Madam Chair, I thank you for your time and look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Capra follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] ---------- Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, sir. Ms. Logan, thank you very much. STATEMENT OF MS. ERIN LOGAN, PRINCIPAL DIRECTOR FOR COUNTERNARCOTICS AND GLOBAL THREATS, OFFICE OF THE UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE Ms. Logan. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ranking Member Deutch, and other members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to talk to you today about the Defense Department's counternarcotics or CN work in Afghanistan and our plans post- 2014. As the members of the subcommittee know well, since 2001 the United States has made an extraordinary investment in blood and Treasury to eliminate the terrorist safe haven that Afghanistan had become. To date, 2,303 Americans have lost their lives in Operation Enduring Freedom, another 19,639 have been wounded. DoD has invested approximately $2 billion in dedicated CN training and programs which is a small fraction of the over $570 billion the nation has spent on the war since 2001. That said, we do believe that $2 billion has been well spent. We have CN seed, if you will, that has now sprouted and it includes all of the elements that we believe we need to successfully grow, but that growth will only happen if we nurture and protect that which we have planted. As we look at the future for Afghanistan, it is impossible to envision success without sustaining an Afghan capability to fight the violence and corruption created by the drug trade. In addition, we cannot ignore the growing threat to ourselves and our allies. Our Canadian partners estimate that 90 percent of the heroin on their streets comes from Afghanistan. They also believe they are seeing more heroin than their user population can absorb. We must all be sensitive to information like this when combined with the Governor of Vermont issuing a State of the State speech focused entirely on Vermont's exploding heroin and opiate problem. We have to realize and be vigilant there is a possibility that Afghan produced heroin will become more available across the United States. DoD as always is committed to disrupting the flow of these drugs as far away from our shores as possible. Our CN strategy for post-2014 can be summarized by saying that we believe we must focus in three key areas, continued support for vetted units, continued aviation capacity building, and the continued leveraging of our international and interagency capabilities. First, the vetted units. These units have shown that they are willing and able to do the job, and more and more vetted units are now able to plan, execute, and follow through on CN missions on their own. For example, in December, on December 18th, the DoD supported, DEA mentored Sensitive Investigative Unit was able to use judicial wire taps to build a case that led to the arrest of two criminals, the seizure of 660 grams of heroin, 500 boxes of ammunition, 40 remote controlled IEDs, and 75 rocket propelled grenades. This is a great example of using CN capability to disrupt and remove lethal threats from the battlefield. Second, our continued support for aviation capacity building. I cannot overstate how vital we believe this is for the terrain of Afghanistan. For any security effort and certainly to run effective CN operations we must enhance the effectiveness and safety of the aviation unit. My office's focus has been the Special Mission Wing which has demonstrated the capability to completely plan and execute operations without international assistance. The Special Mission Wing is just now starting to get the aircraft they need to simultaneously run operations, continue training personnel, and conduct more intensive aircraft maintenance training. As has been mentioned by my colleagues, our experience in Colombia and elsewhere illustrates that it can take more than a decade for aviation capability to become self-sustaining. In a nation like Afghanistan, the pressures will be very high and it may take longer, but with sustained support we are confident the Special Mission Wing can continue to progress. Third, I would be remiss if I don't point out that the vetted units and aviation capability are part of a complete structure that the interagency and international community have worked hard to create. You'll see in my written testimony a lot of examples, but one thing that I'd like to highlight is that we believe the drawdown in Afghanistan demands that we explore creative ways to retain some of the effective targeting and intelligence fusion that we've been able to develop with our international interagency partners. Starting small, we believe we can support a regional hub for those capabilities by modestly expanding our current work done by law enforcement intelligence to facilitate interdictions, seizures, investigations, and prosecution. This would be done by slowly expanding the successful but small Operation Riptide already in Bahrain. Our vision is to create a reach back capability for Afghanistan and a more effective capability for targeting the illicit traffic that is departing the Mokran coast of Pakistan and Iran to go to Africa and beyond. One great example our Canadian partners have is the HMCS Toronto had seven seizures in 2013. We estimate at DoD that 1 percent of the value of what they removed from the high seas is equal to the amount of funding necessary to outfit a platoon of insurgents. A regional targeting center would allow us to retain these valuable interagency international partnerships. Again, we believe that the fight against illicit heroin networks in Afghanistan is vital and an important component of insuring that we honor the sacrifice that we have already made. This effort is also necessary to protect vulnerable populations globally, not just from the scourge of addiction, but also from the corruption and violence these networks bring. Our adversaries make good use of these networks to destabilize territory and hurt U.S. interests. We must be equally committed to countering these threats with our networks of creative and capable partners both at home and overseas. I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Ms. Logan follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] ---------- Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much, and I agree about the importance of those DEA wire intercept centers. We toured the facility and it was very, very impressive. Last year, as we know, we saw a significant increase in poppy cultivation to record levels which is a huge setback to our efforts to cut off that link between extremist groups and the drug trade. The vast majority of poppy is cultivated in some of the most dangerous, least secure areas of Afghanistan operated and controlled by the Taliban and other extremists. Which U.S. Government agency is in charge of coordination efforts for counternarcotics programs in Afghanistan? I'll let you ponder that one. Also, the drawdown has already caused our agencies to decrease their staffs and their presence in Afghanistan and we still don't know what the post-2014 footprint will be. This uncertainty affects more than just our military presence, but it impacts our strategic goals that we're aiming to accomplish in Afghanistan, including counternarcotics efforts. How heavily does the uncertainty about this post-2014 decision weigh over our plans for future counternarcotics efforts? How effective can we be with a minimal to perhaps zero troop presence? Mr. Capra, you testified that sustaining successful security transition to Afghan forces will rest, in part, on limiting insurgent's access to drug-related funding and the support that they get. And in response to this challenge, DEA reopened the Kabul country office. At its peak, DEA had 97 authorized positions in Afghanistan plus a number of contract employees. Did DEA receive the proper number of staff that you requested from the Embassy? And, if not, why not? And we're now entrusting the Afghan counternarcotics forces to do a job that is arguably tougher now than it was before, and they will have less U.S. support with which to do it. We've made remarkable progress in training their forces, that is true, but I'm not sure that they have the capability to handle this very serious threat to both Afghan and U.S. national security. SIGAR in a 2009 audit has criticized INL for Counternarcotics Justice Center. Secretary Brownfield, what are your thoughts about the audit, and what is the current capacity of the Afghan forces for counternarcotics operations? Thank you. Ambassador Brownfield. I'll start, Madam Chairman, and pass the DEA staffing question, obviously, to the good Dr. Capra seated to my side. All of the questions are excellent. Let me try to knock off the three that I believe most directly apply to me. First question, who is responsible for coordinating strategy and drug policy in Afghanistan? Madam Chairman, we have an interagency U.S. Government strategy that was blessed through the White House-managed interagency process in 2012 and produced in December of that year. Since that time, the three organizations represented at this table, DoD, DEA, and INL have all done our own review and developed our own modifications and adjustments based upon the expectation that 2014 is a transition year. And we have attempted to answer the question for our individual agencies where will we be going post-2014 in terms of our drug efforts? Who is responsible for coordinating in the field in Afghanistan? Probably, I'm the closest to the stucky in this regard. It is the United States Ambassador, but he expects his INL director to pull together at least in some sort of strategic and policy way all of those players who are working the drug issue in Afghanistan. The 2014 and beyond footprint. You put your finger right on the issue, Madam Chairman. Everyone at this table would like to know with great precision how many people will we have available for this mission after 2014. And the truth of the matter is we still do not know. This falls into the category of those variables I was talking about in my statement. We do not know what is the nature of the security relationship, whether we will have a BSA and what it will say, who will win the election in April of this year, what will be the number of resources that are available to us out of the FY 2013 and the FY 2014 appropriations bill, and what the other international players will be doing. We are obligated, you pay us to put together the best possible set of policies and programs that allow us to adjust to whatever those variables eventually deliver. Finally, thank you for the question on the Counternarcotics Justice Center. In a hearing across the way about 3 or 4 weeks ago I did hear from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction comments in terms of the CNJC. They surprised me because they were almost 180 degrees different from my own perspective. I believe the CNJC is one of the great success stories of counternarcotics in Afghanistan today. When I was there a week ago, I inaugurated a new detention facility at that Justice Center for one simple reason. They are investigating and prosecuting so many cases that they did not have enough detention space to hold the accused during the process of the trial. And we needed to build an annex. They are investigating well, prosecuting well. They have a conviction rate in the high 90s. It is widely regarded as one of the success stories of Afghanistan and, in fact, there are a number of other elements of the Justice sector that are hoping that they could mimic or do a similar operation to the CNJC. Dr. Capra, over to you. Mr. Capra. That's why I like having meetings with Ambassador Brownfield. Madam Chair, a couple of questions you raised. First and foremost, our footprint. Obviously, when we started there was at 97. What I'd like to do is talk about first and foremost, we, DEA, would not have the ability to operate there without the funding that we get from Department of State and DoD. Nearly this year, Fiscal Year 2013, $30.5 million from Ambassador Brownfield I like to call it, another close to $15 million from DoD. We spend, DEA's direct appropriations, $17 million for 13 positions, three pilots, and three fast teams, but in order to operate we would have needed a lot more personnel than we did. Now, this year comes in, we know that the U.S. Government drawdown is going to impact everybody. We got asked if we're pulling out of forward operating bases just like the military did. What's our plan for the future when we're looking at Afghanistan? And this is never done in a vacuum, meeting with our interagency partners, as well. So, what we do just like you're familiar with any other part of the world where DEA operates whether it's South America or Europe is we get the biggest bang out of our buck with our SIUs and our NIUs. It's a gold standard anywhere in the world so with effective vetting and standing these teams up, training with our people, so in a combat theater we were pushing out with them constantly, so we knew that was going to be less and less likely. So, how could we operate in that region? We put a plan together with certain assumptions that have to be in place. One is funding, are we able to have continued funding? The next certainly is security, the security of our men and women there, as well. So, all that goes into, and I don't want to rehash what Ambassador Brownfield said, but it is, we're not sure what's going to happen. But we are moving toward a drawdown, and by the end of this year we will probably have somewhere around 47 people in country. That includes still rotating fast members there once a quarter. And really the crux of what we're doing there is building capacity and capability of the Afghan Counternarcotics Police. They're the vetted teams, and having them to be able to stand on their own, and in some instances, or actually a lot of instances they're doing that right now. In this past year, they've done over 2,400 operations, 2,400. They've arrested over 2,200 individuals, they've seized over 121 tons of narcotics and another 32,000 kilos of chemicals. And that's not including the typical weapons and hardware, communications hardware, IED making materials that are out there. So, when you ask, and the right thing is to ask sometimes is what is--we started with nothing when we got there. We started with nothing, and here we've developed SIs, NIs, TIs, judicial wire intercept program which you know is critical anywhere in the world. And then we have to look at it from a regional approach, too. What will happen? So we're not sitting here waiting and saying okay, we're also looking at being able to partner with our regional partners in the region in Central Asia, all a part of the plan. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. Mr. Capra. Thank you, ma'am. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. And, Ms. Logan, if you have anything to add. Ms. Logan. The only thing I would add is, you know, most of the places where we do our counternarcotics work are not U.S. declared war zones, so this is about us transitioning, as well, to using some of the strategies and the approaches we've used elsewhere. It will be more difficult, Madam Chair. You're exactly right. I mean, it's a very hard problem. And we always see ebbs and flows, and so while I think all of us don't dispute the sort of facts on the ground, I think how you interpret them, as my colleague said, we see a lot of new but really impressive capability. Is it enough? Will it answer the question, you know, the issues the country is going to face in the next 10 years? Probably not enough, it's not going to solve the whole problem, but we can still keep and grow that capability. And the country itself, I mean, we've seen a lot of evidence that the people of Afghanistan do not want to be a narco state. This is not something they're comfortable with, so we have a lot of material to work with, but we will transition to something that is more similar to what we do around the globe as opposed to what we've been able to do in Afghanistan. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, and thank you for the committee members putting up with how long I went on that. Mr. Deutch, you're recognized. Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Ms. Logan, you said in your testimony, you gave one example of the Sensitive Investigative Unit that used judicially authorized wire intercepts to build the case that led to the arrest of two criminals, seizure of 660 grams of heroin, 500 boxes of ammunition, 40 remote control IEDs and 75 rocket propelled grenades. Where do these RPGs come from, and where are the huge increase in arms that the narcoterrorists use, where do they come from? Ms. Logan. Without getting into too many specifics, I would say, you know, a concern that DoD has across the board and certainly in this region is that the same networks that move drugs move everything else. So, we see links in these networks, we certainly see flow. One of the goals we have with this potential regional cell that we'd like to pull back into the Gulf to give some reach back ability is to get greater fidelity on some of those networks. As I mentioned, we've seen a lot of things going from the Mokran coast which is both Iran and Pakistan that flow actually into Africa, but we see it flowing out of Africa to the rest of the world. We see things going through the neighboring countries and into Afghanistan from neighboring countries, so we are increasingly concerned about trying to develop not just the CN approach but a counter network approach because these networks are linked. They're not all the same, but they have linkages and they have vulnerabilities that we are trying to explore. Mr. Deutch. Who do you work with as you take that network approach, because if--and, certainly, the goal is--I mean, if at the same time we can address the narcotics and heroin, but also tackle RPGs and the tremendous flow of weapons we need to do that. Who do you work with---- Ms. Logan. It's very much an interagency effort along with international. I mean, the British are side by side with us in all of this. As you know, our Joint Improvised Explosive Deice Defeat Organization, the JIEDDO has led on specifically finding the networks that move the arms and the precursors for that. And then we try to overlap that in country and back here. Actually, multiple commands for DoD, it's not just Central Command but COCOM, Central Operations Command also tries to draw that fusion. And then all of us using our partners, DEA, State Department, FBI, other law--you know, we really try to take a very holistic view of understanding--Treasury is a huge partner for us in all of these sort of network attack strategies and trying to map that out. Mr. Deutch. Okay, great. Thanks. I appreciate that. The U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime estimates that 90 metric tons of heroin travels from Afghanistan through Central Asia, worth about $750 million. Can you discuss our operations? I'll actually open this to the panel, our operations with Afghanistan's neighbors on stemming the flow of drugs through their countries all throughout Central Asia, in particular Russia, the endpoint for much of Afghanistan's originating narcotics for trade routes through Central Asia, Iran for shipments headed west, Pakistan for shipments headed east. Can you describe those relationships and those efforts, Ambassador Brownfield? Ambassador Brownfield. I'll start, Congressman, and then yield the floor after I've offered my input. We began a systematic and structured effort to develop a regional program that involved the five Central Asian Republics which yes, I can name; Kazakhstan, Krgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan, and Turkmenistan. Thank you very much. Plus Afghanistan, the Russian Federation, and ourselves. And the objective was to develop an initiative that would tie them all together in some way with the same database, the same information, the ability to coordinate operations. I launched this effort in 2011 with a trip to the region and we called it the Central Asia Counternarcotics Initiative, or CACI. It has not yet been a resounding success, and I clearly misread several signals. One signal was the extent to which the five Central Asian nations are comfortable cooperating with one another. And I discovered that, in fact, I thought there was more enthusiasm for that than there really was. Second, I misread what I thought would be a very attractive offer for the large nation to the north to give them access to intelligence and operations in real time that was happening in Afghanistan and allow them to influence. And, in fact, found they were not as enthusiastic about that as I hoped they would be. So, the initiative is still on the books. We still have a concept and are making step by step progress. We have--we are working with an organization that would serve as the coordinating center called CARICC or the Central Asia Regional Information Coordination Center. We are working with the United Nations organization that does drugs, UNODC to provide training for specialized units. We are moving in the right direction, we're not there yet. Dr. C. Mr. Capra. Congressman, thank you. Again, part of the strategy that we have is to be able to look at a counternarcotics strategy on a regional approach. So to follow on with Ambassador Brownfield, what we're looking at is the Central Asian states, as well, including high-level talks with Russia to exchange information back and forth. A lot of this heroin that's leaving the country is going into the hands of Russian organized crime and the like. So, to dialogue with those Central Asian states where some of the offices--we have offices in some of them, and in some of the offices, as Ambassador Brownfield said, it's a little bit more challenging as we're working there, but the object is before we were even there we had this containment type of strategy in the region to address what was going on there. And it's to follow through with that, it's to take a look at the regional approach, it's continuing to dialogue knowing full well that we're going to drawdown, you have to be able to do that. Mr. Deutch. Can I have 30 more seconds, Madam Chairman? Thank you. I appreciate the efforts and I understand having recently spent time in the region, as well, that your assessment I think is accurate about the way that the countries interact with one another. But I'd just like to know whether each of those countries individually, do you believe that each of the countries on their own is committed to this effort? Ambassador Brownfield. Sure, the tough questions you always defer to me, Dr. Capra. The answer, as is usually the case when you're talking about a number of countries, Congressman, is some yes, some less yes for a variety of reasons. One or more country might feel that somehow it is separate from this problem and, therefore, they don't have to address it as intensely as others. Some may see that they have a national interest perhaps in trying to either absorb some of this traffic or direct it in some other way. Some are undoubtedly playing some degree of regional politics in terms of what they will do or what they will not do. They all have a common interest. To my knowledge, no serious democratic or even remotely democratic government in the world wants to become a narco state, a country who's government is dominated or controlled by narcotics trafficking organizations. They all have that common interest. A couple of the seven are moving at a faster speed than others, and I think I'd answer your question that way. Mr. Deutch. I appreciate it and I know my time is up. I'm heartened by the approach that focuses on networks and just not only on CN. It is true they don't want to become narco states, but it's also true that through these networks the spread of arms through their states and those who possess the arms is another major consideration they should have in working together with us and with each other to try to address this. I thank the panel very much. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Deutch. Mr. Weber, you're up. Mr. Weber. Thank you. Ambassador, I noticed you rattled off about five countries, Tajikstan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, why don't you take a stan. I wasn't sure what all they were. Can you go back through those again? Ambassador Brownfield. If that's a challenge, Congressman, I certainly can, thank you very much. I said Kazakhstan, Krgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan, and Turkmenistan. That is KKUTT, and those are the five Central Asian Republics. Mr. Weber. Okay. I'm looking at it on a map. Okay. Golly. And I don't know who this question is for. Afghanistan is a narco state. Does the DEA, do we have a track record of coming into a situation like this before and being able to clean it up, or is this a first? Mr. Capra. Congressman, Afghanistan is a completely different theater as a combat theater, so it presented a whole bunch of new challenges. There are, I would submit, there are some similarities in places around the world that when we first started, for instance, when I first started as a young agent in New York, we never thought---- Mr. Weber. New York was the battleground? Mr. Capra. Pretty much, it was part of it. Mr. Weber. Oh, you mean a different country. Mr. Capra. So we looked at Colombia at a time and said would we ever be able to work with Colombia. That's 27 years ago. I just was down in Colombia again. Colombia has been and is---- Mr. Weber. Yes, but it wasn't in civil war, and it wasn't as desolate as this is. Mr. Capra. No, no, and I'm not suggesting--and there was a government there, but the narcotics trade had taken hold of Colombia. And if we remember, you had cartels attacking the Supreme Court killing judges. So, yes, I'm not trying to make both comparisons, but you said what is it? Well, we decided to hang in there, Plan Colombia took effect. Now we have countries like Algeria that go to Colombia to learn about best practices in counternarcotics. Mr. Weber. Okay. Well, of course, I realize Colombia is how many hours away by plane? Mr. Capra. From here we can get there pretty quickly. Mr. Weber. I mean, 4 or 5 hours. Mr. Capra. Five hours. Mr. Weber. And that's not the case in Afghanistan. Mr. Capra. No, sir. No, sir. Mr. Weber. So, in Afghanistan, I don't know who this question is for, who is your best ally in cleaning this up? Is it the Afghanistan Government? Mr. Capra. For our best ally it's the law enforcement component which is the Counternarcotics Police in Afghanistan. Mr. Weber. And---- Mr. Capra. It is--I'm sorry, go ahead. Mr. Weber. No corruption there? Mr. Capra. We face corruption everywhere, but let me go right into that, because that's one of the challenges that we face not just there but anywhere. Narcotics trade engenders lots of money, engenders corruption. It just does. Since our SIUs were stood up, these are our Sensitive Investigative Units, our Narcotics Investigative Unit which is the action arm, since they've been set up we have conducted in the past year alone, there have been over 700 individuals that have been convicted. Of them, of those convictions, 50 of them have been government officials. Mr. Weber. Okay, and that leads me to my next question. So, when you go in to accuse somebody, arrest somebody, detain, whatever, they have a constitution in Afghanistan? Mr. Capra. To the---- Mr. Weber. So, you all operate within the parameters of their constitution. Mr. Capra. The Afghan law, that's right. We leave it-- right, exactly. Exactly. Mr. Weber. Okay. Mr. Capra. Now, we're doing things jointly, they are bilateral investigations so DEA is conducting investigations alongside our partners. Mr. Weber. Okay. Mr. Capra. In some instances we've indicted groups here in the United States, as well. But the Afghans are using their justice system to convict, and they've got a pretty significant--it's not perfect and I get that, but we're talking about a conviction rate of over 90 percent. Mr. Weber. Okay. Mr. Capra. So, we're again, when you look back say what did you start with? Mr. Weber. Do you all have, does the DEA, does our drug interdiction forces, do they have prosecute--I don't know-- immunity? I mean, if they make a mistake, I know there was some discussion about the Afghanistan leaving people there. Were you all part of that? Mr. Capra. I'm not sure what---- Mr. Weber. In other words, they were saying that--Karzai, I think, wouldn't agree to the--there was some kind of immunity that was going to be granted. Mr. Capra. I'll turn it over to you. Mr. Weber. Am I misremembering, Ambassador? Ambassador Brownfield. Congressman, on a case by case basis there may be matters of immunity, for example, sitting members of the national legislature. Mr. Weber. What I'm saying is if as a DEA agent you got there and you hurt somebody in your line of work. Are you protected as long as you acted in good faith? Ambassador Brownfield. All U.S. Government personnel in Afghanistan today either operate under a version of the Status of Forces Agreement that covers military personnel, or if they report up to the Chief of Mission, to the United States Ambassador, they have diplomatic protection. And to that extent they have a degree of immunity. Mr. Weber. Gotcha. Mr. Capra, you said 121 tons, I think you seized 32,000 tons of chemical, and I did a little research on Afghanistan, 31 or 2 million people and they're not exactly thriving industrial complexes. Where are they getting--who's supplying them? Mr. Capra. Well, they're getting chemicals from different parts of the world. They're using--these are rudimentary places out in the middle of the desert that they're--but the narcotics trade is funding the insurgency. Mr. Weber. Okay. Mr. Capra. And those drugs or those finished products are leaving Afghanistan and some are being used there by the population. Mr. Weber. Okay. And I notice if I could tell on my map on my iPad, it looked like it had a tiny, tiny border with China, Afghanistan does. How many miles is that, do you know? Mr. Capra. I'd defer to the Ambassador. Ambassador Brownfield. It's a very--the part that actually borders on China is minuscule. What it is, it's a little corridor. You'll see from your map, it's called the Panjshir Valley, and it's about 100 miles long, and I'm guessing the actual border with China is maybe something as small as 10 or 15 miles. Mr. Weber. Okay. Are you seeing drug trade going in and out of China? Ambassador Brownfield. I do not think we are, Congressman, not out of Afghanistan. China, we believe, does have a growing drug consumption and abuse problem which is logical as its economy grows and it develops a middle class. Our sense is that most of the Chinese market is supplied out of Burma/Myanmar and not out of Afghanistan. Mr. Weber. And final question, forgive me, Madam Chair. What country would you say is our greatest ally in this fight, not counting Afghanistan? And what country is our biggest deterrent in this fight? Ambassador Brownfield. I could define that in dozens, if not hundreds of ways, Congressman. I will define it this way. The country that has been most willing to serve as an ally and a partner with us, to offer up resources and personnel and to jointly staff our programs, projects would be the United Kingdom, would be the British. I would give them the highest credit in that regard. I'm not sure how to define who would be the worst. I mean, among others the worst would be those who are not participating at all, and that's probably about 180 countries around the world. Mr. Weber. Well, clearly, you said Russia had organized crime, and they were going to Russia. So, if you could just choose a list of top three, if you could just mitigate with a magic wand the top three countries and get them uninvolved, would Russia be number one? Ambassador Brownfield. Yes, although---- Mr. Weber. But I don't want to put you on the spot, but I mean to put you on the spot. Ambassador Brownfield. I mean, if you were to ask me would it be helpful if Russian citizens ceased using Afghan heroin, yes, it would. And I believe the Russian Government would agree with that, as well. They also have the objective of attacking their own heroin abuse problem. We could say the same thing about both of their--of Afghanistan's neighbors to the west and to the east, Iran and Pakistan are major consumers of the product, as well. And I don't want to make judgment calls on those two governments, but I have every reason to believe that they also would like to reduce the amount of heroin that their citizens are consuming. It's a complicated process, as you well know. It is not possible to deal with the drug issue in Afghanistan and say if we just solve this one issue, cultivation, or interdiction, or laboratories, or precursor chemicals, if we just solve one issue we have solved the problem. We have to solve all elements of the problem to some extent. That's the lesson we learned over 20 or 30 years in Colombia. When you finally focus on all elements of the problem you do deliver a long-term solution. Mr. Weber. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, excellent set of questions. Ms. Frankel, you are our clean up batter. Make it good. Ms. Frankel. Well, thank you, Madam Chair. As a junior member I often feel like I'm a character in the Agatha Christie novel, ``And Then There Were None.'' And I also want to say for the record that---- Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Means that you're the criminal then? Ms. Frankel. I don't know what that means. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. I don't know. Ms. Frankel. Just for the record, Madam Chair, you and I are wearing red today with the other women in the Congress because today is in honor of the American Heart Association. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. And we have to run over there as soon as you're done. Ms. Frankel. That's right. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Okay. Ms. Frankel. Heart disease kills more women than any other illness. Anyway, getting back to Afghanistan, I have a couple of questions. So, according to the data sheet that we received it says that the opium production in 2013 was equivalent to approximately 4 percent of Afghanistan's gross domestic product. So, can you just give me a general idea of what the other 96 percent is? Ambassador Brownfield. I don't claim to be an expert on the Afghan economy, Congresswoman. I would say that Afghanistan is still largely a rural country, so I would speculate that probably more than 50 percent of its gross domestic product is still agricultural produce of some sort. They have a limited amount of what I would call small level industrial and manufacturing, and they have some degree of minerals and mining. Beyond that, I think what you would see in Afghanistan is the economy you would expect from a country that's in--in terms of gross domestic product and per capita, GDP, probably in the bottom 5 percent of the nations of the world. Ms. Frankel. So, the farmers who are producing the opium-- is most of the direct toward the Taliban, or other illicit-- what we call an illicit group, rather than for the general well-being of Afghani population? Ambassador Brownfield. That's a terrific question and one, obviously, in which we have to be somewhat speculative since, as you well can imagine, farmers who are producing opium poppy and selling the poppy do not report either the sales or their motivation to any government organizations or offices. My own sense in Afghanistan, as by the way in most of the world where you find subsistence level farmers who are cultivating and selling an illicit drug, whether it's cocoa leaf in Latin America or opium poppy in Central Asia or Southeast Asia, and Burma and Myanmar is that the farmers themselves are subsistence level farmers. They are trying to make a basic living for their families. They are not inherently criminals. They are not even politically motivated and what they are trying to do. They conclude that they can make $500 a year if they grow wheat, but they can make $2,000 a year if they grow opium poppy, so they grow opium poppy. Now, they then sell it, and they sell it either to a terrorist type organization such as the Taliban, and thereby allow the Taliban to in a sense become the producer, the trafficker, and earn the real rewards because the subsistence farmer is not making a great deal, or they sell it to a traditional criminal organization. At the end of the day, that's where the Taliban, in essence, gets its revenue by selecting the regions where it has a substantial presence, where there is minimal security provided by the government, and either intimidating and forcing the farmers to cultivate and sell to them, or simply become the buyer of the product. That I would suggest is probably what we see in Afghanistan, just as I would suggest it's what you see in Colombia, Peru, or Bolivia with your subsistence farmer. Ms. Frankel. So, one of the focuses here is alternative development. And you feel like it is possible to provide them with some alternative that would keep them from growing opium? Ambassador Brownfield. Yes, Congresswoman, you put your finger right on what, obviously, has to be one of the elements of a program. And Jimmy Capra talked about interdiction which is absolutely essential, as is investigations, laboratory take downs, money laundering and so forth, but we have to address the problem, as well, at its opening on the chain, and that is cultivation. We have developed over the last 10 years three programs that are designed to address this issue, one that we call Governor-Led Eradication. It's a very simple program. We pay the governor of a province $250 for each hectare of opium poppy, that's 2.5 acres roughly, that the province eradicates. If they don't eradicate, they don't get paid. If they eradicate 1,000, they get $250,000. Simple, hard to cheat on that. We count up what was eradicated and we then pay them. The second program is what we call the Good Performers Initiative. This is a program again with the governors in the provinces where we reach an understanding or a contract, and we say if you eradicate X number of hectares, let's say 5,000 hectares, what we will offer for you is two schools, three clinics, four new roads, and an electricity grid that will address these two or three villages. Again, it's a good program because you can't cheat. First they eradicate, then the benefits flow into the province. The third program is directly on point for what you're describing, alternative development. This is the Helmand Food Zone that Mr. Deutch was talking about, and what I hope will become in the course of later this year the Kandahar Food Zone. This is where we will offer again together with the governors and the local government, and the Ministry of Counternarcotics direct alternative development assistance, not just a barrel of seeds so they can plant wheat instead of opium poppy but, in fact, the technology, the equipment, a road system that allows them to get their product to market, and general improvements in their villages that allow them to have a stake in their future. This is what the Food Zone project is all about. It's expensive, Congresswoman. That's why as we were addressing the realities of 2014 and beyond we have a flexible program that allows us to move from province to province. We don't have the resources to do it everywhere at the same time. We're not going to have those resources. I think we agree with that. We do have the resources to say the toughest area right now is Kandahar, for example, so we will do a Food Zone in Kandahar. We'll work it for 2 years, then we will see where the next target zone is, and move there. That's how we're trying to address the issue. Ms. Frankel. Madam Chair, may I ask---- Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Absolutely, yes. Ms. Frankel. Since it's just the three of us here. I think many of us have been very disturbed about what's happened to funds that we've--that's gone into Afghanistan, in military and in USAID, a lot of corruption, a lot of waste, a lot of fraud, all that. So, a question I have for you is how could we be certain that if we inject more resources into the kind of activities you're describing that we're not going to have the same waste, fraud, and corruption? And that's one part of the question. The other one is how much of the money do you think that has flowed into Afghanistan, the billions of dollars through the U.S. Government, has already gone into producing opium? Ambassador Brownfield. I'm not sure how to answer that question. I would say certainly none of the money that we have provided has gone into programs designed to produce opium, but I'm sure that's not your question. Let me answer---- Ms. Frankel. Well, through corruption, waste, fraud, something is happening to some of that money. Ambassador Brownfield. And at the end of the day, I'm not going to be able to give you a good figure or even an estimate for Afghanistan at large since I, obviously, only do the counternarcotics part of it. I will tell you, however, that I feel pretty confident about the programs that we are managing with DEA, in particular, on counternarcotics for the following reason. For the most part, when we provide direct funding to the Government of Afghanistan, it is for acts that have already occurred and been verified which is to say what they have already eradicated, or what they have already interdicted, or what they have already taken down in terms of labs. In terms of the support that we're providing for the Special Units through DEA, DEA is working directly with them day in, day out, sometimes 24 hours a day. They've got very good visibility in terms of what they're doing, and they are vetted, which is to say assessed on a regular basis to determine whether any of the individuals have been corrupted or penetrated. Ms. Frankel. Well, what about through USAID? Isn't that one of the purposes was to have--was on economic redevelopment? Ambassador Brownfield. Sure, and I have to defer on giving you an answer there because, obviously, I cannot speak for USAID. Ms. Frankel. Is it just us, can I ask one more then? That's it, one more. Mr. Deutch. My friend and neighbor from Florida has---- Ms. Frankel. Yes. So, what is your--any of you can answer this. In terms of the danger of the narcotic issue here in Afghanistan, do you see it--is it more of a health, more of terrorism-related? What do you think is the largest danger? Ms. Logan. Ma'am, I think we in DoD see it as genuinely a national security threat that will continue. As I mentioned this, and as was mentioned by my colleagues, the amount of money and the use of those funds by our adversaries for multiple nefarious purposes, this is not--it is tragic the actual usage issues, of course. We're all very saddened by that, and Afghanistan is facing a growing problem itself, but for us it's really about what else this pays for, and the instability and corruption that it breeds, as well, that makes it impossible for the people of that region and many other regions to reach their full potential to be honest. But it's a national security question for us. It really very much fundamentally is, and I let my colleagues answer, too. Mr. Capra. Just very quickly, ma'am, the narcotics trade generates billions of dollars, and those billions of dollars have the ability to destabilize not just neighborhoods but entire nations, especially those who are prone to weakness and corruption. They have the ability to fund extremist groups around the world, political organizations, and that's what we see that's going on there in Afghanistan. That's the threat of that narcotics trade. Mr. Ambassador. Ambassador Brownfield. Well, I'll close it, Congresswoman, by saying three things. There are three threats out there. One, one of the world's largest terrorist organizations receives most of its domestic funding from narcotics. That's the Taliban and that's the Afghan heroin industry. Second, it represents a threat to the stability, and for that matter future of democracy in Afghanistan. We have invested a substantial amount of U.S. national effort in that nation. One could argue that it is in our interest to ensure that it does not become a victim to drug trafficking. And third and finally, you can argue about the number. I've heard figures between 4 and 7 percent of U.S. heroin consumed in the United States is of Afghan origin, but there's absolutely no reason why that couldn't surge. There's nothing magical that keeps Afghan heroin from coming to the United States, and if that happens it is a direct threat to the people and communities of the United States of America. Ms. Frankel. Thank you. Mr. Deutch, I just have one last question, which is then which is the agency that you would designate to do the alternative redevelopment work? Ambassador Brownfield. It would be between me from the INL side and USAID. USAID does rural development. Now, they are the ones who work with farmers and farming programs. I do the drug programs. It is my responsibility to lay out the infrastructure, if you will, for an alternative development program, and USAID can and, in fact, very effectively does in Afghanistan the alternative development part of it. You ask legitimate questions about diversion and corruption, but I do hold to my position that what USAID is doing in alternative development is, in fact, having impact where it is applied. Mr. Deutch. Anything further, Congresswoman Frankel? With that, I thank---- Ms. Frankel. If you did ask, I do have one more. I'm taking advantage---- Mr. Deutch. You're taking advantage of---- Ms. Frankel. Yes. I don't know whether you can answer this question, but in our last budget I believe we reduced the USAID budget by half, so I'm just curious what you think that will have on effect what you're trying to do? Ambassador Brownfield. Congresswoman, let me tell you, you not only reduced USAID's suggested budget by half, you reduced everyone's budget for foreign assistance in Afghanistan by half, including my own. Now, you didn't write it into the law, you may recall. You may not have reread the 1,500 pages of the FY 14 Appropriations Bill yet. It was written as a statement of the managers of the bill, but it does, in fact, suggest 50 percent. And we're going to have to work our way through that issue. We in the Executive Branch, you in the United States Congress, we're going to have to talk about it. We're going to have to determine to what extent does this reflect the strong will of the United States Congress. And then we from our perspective have to say to you what the impact is going to be if we walk down this road. I think we have a great deal of conversation ahead of us on this issue before we reach final understanding as to how we're going to proceed. Mr. Deutch. The gentle lady yields the balance of her time. With that, I thank the witnesses for their patience, for their testimony today and for their service to the country. And that concludes the hearing, we're adjourned. [Whereupon, at 4:17 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] A P P E N D I X ---------- Material Submitted for the Record [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]