[House Hearing, 113 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
U.S. FOREIGN POLICY TOWARD IRAQ
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
NOVEMBER 13, 2013
__________
Serial No. 113-83
__________
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American
DANA ROHRABACHER, California Samoa
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio BRAD SHERMAN, California
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
TED POE, Texas GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
MATT SALMON, Arizona THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina KAREN BASS, California
ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
MO BROOKS, Alabama DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
TOM COTTON, Arkansas ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
PAUL COOK, California JUAN VARGAS, California
GEORGE HOLDING, North Carolina BRADLEY S. SCHNEIDER, Illinois
RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas JOSEPH P. KENNEDY III,
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania Massachusetts
STEVE STOCKMAN, Texas AMI BERA, California
RON DeSANTIS, Florida ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
TREY RADEL, Florida GRACE MENG, New York
DOUG COLLINS, Georgia LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
TED S. YOHO, Florida JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
LUKE MESSER, Indiana
Amy Porter, Chief of Staff Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director
Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida, Chairman
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
TOM COTTON, Arkansas DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
RON DeSANTIS, Florida JUAN VARGAS, California
TREY RADEL, Florida BRADLEY S. SCHNEIDER, Illinois
DOUG COLLINS, Georgia JOSEPH P. KENNEDY III,
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina Massachusetts
TED S. YOHO, Florida GRACE MENG, New York
LUKE MESSER, Indiana LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESS
Mr. Brett McGurk, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Iraq and Iran,
Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, U.S. Department of State....... 8
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
Mr. Brett McGurk: Prepared statement............................. 11
APPENDIX
Hearing notice................................................... 42
Hearing minutes.................................................. 43
Responses from Mr. Brett McGurk to questions submitted for the
record by the Honorable Brad Sherman, a Representative in
Congress from the State of California.......................... 45
U.S. FOREIGN POLICY TOWARD IRAQ
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WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 2013
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:36 p.m., in
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Ileana Ros-
Lehtinen (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. If the witnesses could take their spot on
the dais.
The subcommittee will come to order. I apologize for being
late. So sorry. After recognizing myself and the ranking member
Deutch for 5 minutes each for our opening statements, I will
recognize other members seeking recognition for 1 minute. We
will then hear from our witnesses and without objection, the
witnesses' prepared statements will be made a part of the
record. Members may have 5 days to insert questions and
statements for the record, subject to the length limitation in
the rules.
Before we begin this afternoon's hearing, I will hand
Deputy Assistant Secretary McGurk an envelope, and ask that he
please deliver it to Secretary Kerry. These are my previous
letters to Secretary Kerry pleading for the United States to
help the residents of Camps Ashraf and Liberty and to prevent
another deadly attack like the one from September at Camp
Ashraf which left 52 dead and 7 hostages who are still missing.
Also, a video taken by the residents of Ashraf during the
latest assault that I urge Secretary Kerry and all members of
the subcommittee to view, and finally, a letter to Secretary
Kerry regarding the return of Iraqi Jewish community artifacts
that are now on display at the National Archives.
In 2003, U.S. and coalition forces found a trove of Iraqi
Jewish religious and cultural artifacts being warehoused in the
basement of Saddam Hussein's secret police headquarters, and
the U.S. subsequently brought them here to the National
Archives for restoration, preservation, and display. However,
these artifacts are scheduled to be returned to Iraq where the
government will claim possession of these artifacts that were
unjustly taken from the Iraqi Jewish community. The U.S.
Government must not return those stolen treasures to the Iraqi
Government, but instead, should facilitate their return to
their rightful owners or their descendants.
Therefore, on behalf of me, Congressman Steve Israel, and
over 40 of our House colleagues, we ask you, Deputy Secretary
McGurk, to personally deliver this letter to Secretary Kerry
and the Department of State ensure that the Iraqi Jewish
community does not get robbed again of its collective memory
and treasures. Thank you, sir. The Chair now recognizes herself
for 5 minutes.
Two years ago next month, the United States withdrew our
last troops from Iraq, and the American mission in Iraq
formally ended. Instead of leaving behind a residual force
sizeable enough to help maintain the gains we made in Iraq, and
to continue to assist the Iraqis as they made the important
steps toward democracy, the administration dithered, failed to
actively seek a resolution to extend our presence in Iraq, and
withdrew completely rather than stay engaged. Yet, shortly
after our last soldier left, President Obama addressed troops
at Fort Bragg and said, ``We are leaving behind a sovereign,
stable and self-reliant Iraq.''
However, what we have seen over the past 2 years, and it
has been even more pronounced in the past few months, is that
Iraq is far from stable, and it is only getting worse.
Increasing sectarian violence, fueled by al-Qaeda in Iraq, AQI,
also known as the Islamic state of Iraq in al-Sham, is now at a
level not seen since 2008, and has led to rising civilian death
tolls.
According to multiple sources, so far this year, there have
been over 7,000 civilian deaths, a number that is more than
double for all of last year, and there are now an average 63--
68, excuse me, car bombings a month, and multiple location
attacks are occurring at a much greater frequency. The
resurgence of AQI and the Shiite militias threatens to ignite
an all-out civil war along ethnic and sectarian lines that
could topple the Iraqi Government. The violence may spread
across Iraq and Syria, and could enable al-Qaeda to establish a
safe haven from which to attack U.S. interests and the
interests of our allies in the region. And with the United
States no longer there to act as a deterrent, Iran has quickly
moved in to fill the void that we have left behind and has been
exerting a great deal of influence over Prime Minister Maliki
and many of the Shiite factions. This is a very serious cause
for concern and a real threat to U.S. national security
interest to the region.
Maliki and his government have done little to prevent or
stop Iranian arms supplies from being flown over Iraq to Assad
and his murderous forces in Syria. I have repeatedly urged the
administration to press Maliki to be more proactive in stopping
these flights that carry military personnel, arms and equipment
to Assad, yet the flights continue.
Another example of Iran's influence in Iraq is the
continued attacks against the people of Camp Ashraf and Camp
Liberty, who, despite being guaranteed safety and security from
the Government of Iraq and the United Nations, have faced
several deadly attacks against their compounds this year. These
anti-Iranian regime dissidents have been living in fear every
day while agents of Tehran attack their camps without
repercussions and without Maliki making any effort to stop the
violence. The U.S. must press Maliki and the U.N. to live up to
their obligations under the December 2011 Memo of
Understanding, and protect the residents of these camps. But
there is still a chance to reverse course in Iraq. Next April,
Iraq will hold national elections. The U.S. must work with Iraq
to ensure that these elections are inclusive; that they are
free, fair, and transparent.
While Maliki was here to visit President Obama, he made it
clear that he wants more U.S. military equipment to help fight
the growing terrorist threat. The U.S. must not commit to
increase security assistance until Maliki and the Iraqi
Government show that they are serious about combating the
terrorist threat, will provide security to the Camp Ashraf and
Liberty residents, and are willing to implement the reforms
needed in Iraq to bring democracy and stability while also
securing U.S. national security interests.
It is time for the administration to get serious about its
commitment to a democratic and stable Iraq, and to increase
U.S. influence in Iraq so that it does not even more closely
align itself with Iran and our other enemies. And with that, I
would like to yield to Mr. Cicilline, if he would like to
represent the Democratic side. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for
convening this hearing along with Ranking Member Deutch. Since
U.S. combat troops withdrew from Iraq in 2011, we have seen
limited progress in building peace, democracy, and stability. I
have very strong concerns about the violence and general unrest
in Iraq, especially since Iraqi people have endured
considerable hardships.
The United States has worked to assist Iraq in these
efforts, but internal and regional issues persist, including
threats from al-Qaeda. Unfortunately, these are very real and
very serious, especially as we continue to encounter and handle
many complicated issues in the region, particularly Iran, and
Syria. I believe the United States must work to forge a strong
and allied relationship with Iraq as soon as possible, but also
recognize the ultimate responsibility of the Iraqi people with
stability, prosperity, and peace of their own nation.
I look forward to hearing the perspective of the witnesses
we have assembled to discuss the future relationship with Iraq,
what we can learn from our actions over the last decade, and
how they will help to shape our relationships with Iraq, and
other nations in the region. I welcome the witnesses.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Cicilline. Mr. Chabot is
recognized.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think we would be
remiss if before I had my opening remarks if we could recognize
our former colleague, Congressman Mike Flanagan from Chicago,
Illinois, who served his constituents extremely well.
Personally, when I first came up here in 1994, he is just one
Great American there. Why don't you stand up, Mike. Mike
Flanagan. All right.
And now my statement. The United States spent nearly a
decade securing and helping to build the foundation of a
prosperous and democratic Iraq. Thousands of American lives
were lost, billions of dollars were spent. In 2011, when we
were preparing for the transition from a Defense Department-led
mission to a State Department-led mission, many of us in the
Congress expressed concerns that a complete withdrawal of our
Armed Forces personnel would be premature because Iraq did not
appear to be ready to stand on its own, and that we ran the
risk of squandering much of the progress that we had achieved.
Having just returned from a recent visit there back in
2011, I was one of those Members who expressed that skepticism.
When President Obama surprised nearly everybody, including our
military leaders, and many of our diplomats by withdrawing all
of our military personnel while the political situation in Iraq
remained dangerously unstable, I am afraid our worst fears are
being realized. Two years later, Iraq may well be on the verge
of a civil war. I am looking forward to the testimony this
afternoon with the hope that the administration can shed some
light on its Iraq policy, and I yield back the balance of my
time.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Chabot. Mr. Vargas is
recognized.
Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much again, Madam Chair, and
Ranking Member for the opportunity to speak here today and for
this important meeting. Nearly 2 years ago, as it was said, the
United States withdrew our last troops from Iraq. The main
territorial, political, and economic divisions within the
country remain ripe and unresolved. Increased sectarian
violence and the inability of the Maliki government to govern
in a transparent and inclusive manner has left a power vacuum
all too often filled by al-Qaeda and Iranian influences, and we
see Iraq careening toward a civil war. And importantly now,
too, the critical lessons that we learned or didn't learn and
the insights that we learned in Iraq will be important also as
we advance our negotiations with Afghanistan toward a final
bilateral security agreement and I do have to ask, as many of
my constituents ask, was it all worth it? Was it worth it?
Thank you.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, sir. Mr. Wilson of South
Carolina is recognized.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you very much
for having this hearing today. I am very grateful that over the
years of my service I had the opportunity to visit Iraq 11
times. I am very hopeful for the people of Iraq, but I
obviously am very concerned, and I certainly hope the
administration is making every effort to avoid what we have
already heard could be an impending civil war where you have
the Sunni-Shiite divide, where you have an extraordinary
example of progress that I have observed in the Kurdish region
of Iraq; what a model hopefully for the rest of the country to
be able to have diversity. It is also personal to me. My oldest
son served for a year with the field artillery in Iraq, and he
was military police and traveled the country in different
convoys. Additionally, my second son has been a doctor serving
with the rangers and the SEALS in Iraq, so our family wants
success. Thank you.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank for their service. And I am now
pleased to yield 5 minutes for his opening statement to the
ranking member of our subcommittee, my Florida colleague, Mr.
Deutch.
Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thanks for
holding this hearing. First, I would like to recognize the
Iraqi Ambassador who is here today. Thank you for being here,
Ambassador. We look forward to working with you to help to
ensure a stable and democratic Iraq.
It has been 2 years since U.S. forces withdrew from Iraq
and we would be remiss if we didn't remember the tragic
sacrifices that so many of our bravest have suffered. Eight
long years of war resulted in the deaths of 4,500 U.S. troops,
more than 32,000 troops were wounded, including thousands who
are now living with brain and spinal injuries. Their sacrifices
will always be remembered and greatly appreciated. Yet, since
the troop withdrawal, sectarian violence has been spiraling out
of control with violence at the highest level since 2006. This
has left many wondering what exactly has changed in Iraq.
Reports indicate that nearly 7,000 Iraqis have been killed this
year with almost 1,000 killed in September alone. Many believe
the rise in sectarian violence to be a result of efforts by
Prime Minister Maliki to consolidate political power at the
expense of Sunni and Kurdish opponents.
This perspective, along with the dangerous reemergence of
al-Qaeda in Iraq, has contributed to Sunni extremists targeting
Shiite communities which in response, has led to government-run
security operations in Sunni areas. All of that contributed to
a violent cycle that appears to only be intensifying with no
immediate solution in sight. Yet, we can't look at U.S. policy
toward Iraq in a vacuum. We must also do so in the context of
the broader region. The United States has our fair share of
challenges in the Middle East. But a constructive relationship
with Iraq, one that is united in our fight against extremists
and committed to upholding democracy can have significant
impact on a region in turmoil.
Iraq can play a critical role in resolving the conflict in
Syria, stopping the spread of extremism, preventing a nuclear
Iran, and encouraging new regional partnerships. Furthermore,
by virtue of its geography and history, Iraq will arguably play
the most important role in helping to address the alarming
sectarian division between extremist Sunni and Shiite elements
that are spreading throughout the region. But I am troubled
that Prime Minister Maliki's neutrality in the Syrian conflict,
I am worried that Iraq is increasingly susceptible to Iranian
influence. Earlier this spring, many of my colleagues joined me
in sending a letter to Secretary Kerry that expressed our
serious concerns that Iranian flights were continuing to use
Iraqi air space to transport weapons to Assad's forces in
Syria. While the Iraqi Government responded after months of
prodding by grounding several flights, it is unclear whether
these Iranian flights continued to go unchecked, and I look
forward to hearing whether there has been any progress on this
issue.
For the past decade, Iraq dominated U.S. foreign policy. We
can't allow it to now disappear into our rearview mirror. The
challenges in stabilizing Iraq are great, but I believe the
risk of letting Iraq devolve into al-Qaeda's playground are
even greater. I recognize that developing an effective and
sustainable power-sharing agreement between the Shiite, Sunnis
and Kurds is not easy, but we must encourage and promote
dialogue. I also recognize that despite Iraq's political
challenges, it made drastic improvements in their economy. Iraq
is now the second highest oil producer in OPEC and the GDP has
increased about 10 percent per year since 2011. These are the
kind of important gains that will be crucial to long-term
stability.
Another key benchmark in Iraq's future will be the upcoming
national parliamentary election scheduled for April 2014. It is
my hope that elections will bring a new political order that
works to govern inclusively and effectively. I look forward to
hearing what the State Department is doing to help maintain an
inclusive political process and to strengthen democratic
institutions.
Deputy Assistant Secretary McGurk, I hope that today you
will be able to provide greater insight into the future of
U.S./Iraq relations, and while there is no doubt, the current
security situation is absolutely untenable, this relationship
cannot be built solely on arms sales. We can strengthen
economic and cultural ties that will help to provide a more
prosperous future for all Iraqis, and we must promote a process
that results in a lasting and equitable power-sharing agreement
that is fair to all Iraqis. Madam Chairman, again, thank you
for holding this hearing and I look forward to our discussion.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. Thank you for an excellent
opening statement. We turn to Mr. Weber for any opening
statement he would like to make.
Mr. Weber. Thank you, Madam Chair. I have none at this
time.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. We like to hear that.
Mr. Weber. I do, too.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Let me see. Mr. Meadows, is that who is
next to you there? A good looking guy.
Mr. Meadows. Thank you, Madam Chair. Very briefly, I just
wanted to thank you for coming to testify. Obviously, we need
to use all of our diplomatic tools necessary to avoid a civil
war and prevent the spread of violence there in Iraq. And even
though we have the oversight responsibility and connections
with the U.S. Ambassador over key Iraqi developments and the
sale of arms, et cetera, I look forward to your testimony on
how we can best accommodate and work with what is happening on
the ground there, work with the Iraqi people in a spirit of
friendship and cooperation, and I yield back.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, sir. Mr. Schneider is
recognized.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I will be brief
so we can get to our panel. But as we sit here 2 years after
the last troops left Iraq, Iraq continues to be a linchpin in
the Middle East, in many respects influencing the fortune of
its neighbors. Thus far, Iraq has not used this opportunity
well, and has engaged in behavior that shows regional
instability rather than security. In April, I joined with many
of my colleagues here in the Foreign Affairs Committee in
writing a letter to the Prime Minister Maliki of Iraq asking
that he do more to stop the illicit arms trafficking and
Iranian weapons to the Assad regime in Syria.
It remains unclear if Iraq continues to perform inspections
of civilian aircraft, and may continue to promote regional
conflict by allowing these arms to flow from Iran into Syria. I
look forward to hearing from our panel what more can be done to
work with Iraq to promote U.S. foreign policy goals in the
region, including working toward long-term stability and
security in Iraq. Thank you, Madam Chair, I yield back my time.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, sir. Mr. Rohrabacher is
recognized.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much. Madam Chairman, Iraq
is now an ally of the Iranian Mullah dictatorship. The Maliki
Iraq regime is at best an accomplice to the murders of unarmed
refugees at Camp Ashraf, and is a regime that has a disdain for
the American sacrifice that gave them the sacrifice of our
blood and our treasure that freed them from Saddam Hussein's
dictatorship. These ingrates should not receive one penny, not
one red cent of American aid, and today we have with us, Madam
Chairman, someone who exemplifies the actual horror story that
it is under this regime.
We have Afzal--and I hope I pronounce this right, Afzal
Emadi, whose brother was among the 52 killed at Camp Ashraf and
has a cousin who is now being held hostage by the Iraqi regime.
He resides in my district and I would like him to stand now if
he could. And we are sorry for your family, and they are in our
thoughts as we preside over this hearing. Thank you.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, sir. Ms. Meng is recognized.
Ms. Meng. Thank you, Madam Chairman, Ranking Member Deutch,
and our distinguished panelist. It has been 2 years since the
withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. And while we have done
much to give its fledgling democratic government a real chance
of success in the upcoming 2014 national elections, there are
still many challenges. Sectarian violence and regional
conflicts remain rampant while our ability to work with the
Iraqi Government through the office of security operation has
greatly diminished, and with rising Iranian influence in Iraq,
the need for a comprehensive and clearly defined foreign policy
is vital.
I am confident that today's discussion of these issues will
prove valuable in determining the appropriate role of the U.S.
presence in Iraq going forward. Regarding the issue of Iraqi
Jewish artifacts that are currently on display in the National
Archives, I want to especially acknowledge and thank
Congresswoman Ros-Lehtinen, Congressman Israel, and Senator
Schumer for their leadership on this issue. Rescued from
Baghdad in 2003, the collection of ancient artifacts include
letters, books, and personal photos that were left behind by
Jews after World War II who experienced extreme anti-Semitism,
including harassment and violence.
It is imperative that these artifacts are returned to the
descendants of the Jewish community from which they were
wrongly confiscated, and not by the Iraqi Government. We want
to ensure justice for the Iraqi Jewish community. I look
forward to hearing Mr. Brett McGurk's testimony on these
issues. Thank you.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much. And now our
subcommittee is so pleased to welcome a gentleman who has an
impressive resume, Mr. Brett McGurk, who is Deputy Assistant
Secretary for Iraq and Iran at the State Department. Prior to
this, Mr. McGurk served as a special advisor to three U.S.
Ambassadors to Iraq in the Obama administration, and as
director for Iraq and Special Assistant to the President as
well as Senior Director for Iraq and Afghanistan in the Bush
administration.
Welcome, Mr. McGurk. We look forward to your testimony and
your full and complete statement will be made a part of record.
You are recognized for 5 minutes, sir, welcome.
STATEMENT OF MR. BRETT MCGURK, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR
IRAQ AND IRAN, BUREAU OF NEAR EASTERN AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF STATE
Mr. McGurk. Thank you, Chairman Ros-Lehtinen, Ranking
Member Deutch and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for
inviting me to discuss the situation in Iraq. My testimony this
afternoon will focus on our efforts to safeguard U.S. interests
in this important country bearing in mind our obligations to
build on all that America sacrificed over the past decade. The
challenges are daunting. Internally and regionally, pressure
continues to build. The next year in Iraq may be pivotal,
particularly with national elections now set for April 30,
2014. I look forward to working closely with this subcommittee
as we navigate this difficult terrain and ensure that core U.S.
interests are protected.
Our policy is focused on these core interests and organized
along the following five lines of effort. First, maintaining a
unified and Federal Iraq; second, supporting increases in the
production and export of oil resources; third, promoting Iraq's
strategic independence and regional integration; fourth,
countering the reemergence of al-Qaeda in Iraq; and fifth,
supporting Iraq's democratic institutions and trajectory.
I will review briefly our efforts along these tracks
measuring progress from Secretary Kerry's March visit to
Baghdad. After that visit, the Secretary asked me to travel to
Iraq and I have made four trips since with another scheduled
for next week. I hope therefore to provide an overview of the
situation as viewed from here in Washington, as well as on the
ground in Iraq. The first line of effort is maintaining a
unified and Federal Iraq. The focus here primarily is on
relations between the central government in Baghdad and the
Iraqi Kurdistan Region, or IKR. When the Secretary visited Iraq
in March, tensions were at a dangerous boil. Kurdish ministers
and parliamentarians were boycotting Baghdad, and Kurdish
Peshmerga forces faced off against the Iraqi Army in disputed
boundary areas. Intensive diplomatic engagement led to a
detente with both sides pulling back and disputes returning to
the political arena where they belong. Since then, seven joint
committees have been formed between Baghdad and Erbil. Prime
Minister Maliki has visited Erbil and President Barzani of the
IKR has visited Baghdad for the first time in 2 years.
The second round of effort, importantly, is maintaining the
increases in production and export of oil resources. Iraq is
estimated to have the fifth largest proven oil reserves in the
world. Last year it surpassed Iran as OPEC's second largest
producer. Earlier this year, Iraq surpassed Iran as a leading
exporter to India and China, which has helped enforce robust
international sanctions on Iranian oil exports. Today we are
working with the Iraqis on a strategic vision for their
national infrastructure, with export routes from the south in
Basra, to the Red Sea and through Turkey to the Mediterranean.
We are also working with all political blocks to pursue a long-
term win/win agenda, with Iraq as a 6-10 million barrel per day
producer with revenue sharing pacts and export routes to unite
disparate interests in Iraq and regionally.
The third line of effort is promoting strategic
independence and regional integration. Iraq shares a 400-mile
border with Syria and a 900-mile border with Iran, which we
learned from hard experience can be difficult to control. In
addition, at the time of Secretary Kerry's visit to Baghdad,
tensions with Turkey, lingering disputes with Kuwait, and
strained relations with the GCC threatened to further isolate
Iraq and widen the door to nefarious influences from other
neighbors. Thus, beginning in March, we launched a quiet but
active campaign to ease tensions with Turkey, settle accounts
with Kuwait, strengthen ties with Jordan, and accelerate
efforts to reintegrate Iraq with its Gulf neighbors.
These efforts have seen some success. In June, the U.N.
Security Council voted to normalize relations between Iraq and
Kuwait. This week, Turkey's foreign minister visited Baghdad
for the first time in 2 years and both countries agreed to
restore positive ties. Jordan and Iraq are now coordinating
efforts to develop a pipeline from Basra to Aqaba, and next
week, DOE will host a strategic dialogue between United States,
Iraq, Jordan, and Egypt.
Iraq has also participated recently in regional military
exercises in Jordan and Bahrain. While these are positive
steps, Iraq's full reintegration with Gulf partners will be
influenced by its stance in the conflict in Syria, which is a
daily topic of our discussion with Iraqi leaders.
The fourth line of effort is countering the reemergence of
al-Qaeda in Iraq. Everything I have just mentioned depends on
Iraq stemming the rising levels of violence seen over the last
year. So far this year, nearly 6,000 Iraqis have been killed
compared with 4,400 who were killed in each of the past 2
years.
Nearly all high-profile mass casualty attacks, the vehicle
and suicide bombs are perpetrated by terrorist groups now led
by Iraq's al-Qaeda affiliate, the Islamic State of Iraq and the
Levant, or ISIL. ISIL is led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, a
specially designated global terrorist under U.S. law who is now
based in Syria. Earlier this year, Baghdadi announced a
campaign of terror to include attacks against Iraqi security
services, government targets, and civilians. Since then, we
have seen upwards of 40 suicide bombers per month in Iraq,
targeting playgrounds, mosques, markets, and funerals, in
addition to government sites from Basra, to Baghdad, to Erbil.
These attacks, in turn, have given rise to new calls from
Shiite extremist militias, which had remained dormant since
2011.
ISIL has benefited from a permissive operating environment
due to inherent weaknesses of Iraqi security forces, poor
operational tactics, and popular grievances which remain
unaddressed in Sunni areas.
Fortunately, we have defeated this enemy before through
intelligence-driven security operations and mobilizing popular
forces against extremist networks. Iraqi leaders today are
working to develop this same approach, with our support, but
not to our troops, and this remains a daily topic of our
conversation with them from the prime minister on down.
Finally, the fifth line of effort is supporting Iraq's
democratic institutions and trajectory, isolating extremists
will be near impossible if the political process is not moving
forward. The Iraqi Parliament just last week passed a long-
delayed law to govern national elections which are now set for
April 30, 2014. We have made clear to all Iraqi contacts that
these elections must be on time, well-prepared, and designed to
produce genuine and credible results. In the meantime we are
engaged with all parties and blocks to facilitate progress in
Parliament, and a package of laws to advance national
reconciliation.
In conclusion, vital interests are at stake in Iraq.
Hearings like this are critically important to ensuring that we
are doing all we possibly can to safeguard those interests and
to ensure that we have built on the sacrifice we have made over
the last decade. Thank you again for inviting me to speak with
you, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of McGurk follows:]
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Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much, sir.
And before I begin my questions, I would like to recognize
Lieutenant Colonel Greg McCarthy, and Matt Zweig, two Iraqi war
veterans who serve on our Foreign Affairs Committee. We thank
you for your service.
Mr. McGurk, thank you for your testimony. You testified in
your written statement that it is legitimate to question Iraq's
independence given Iran's ongoing use of Iraqi air space to
resupply the Assad regime. Why is Iraq not doing more to stop
the overflights to Assad? Is the Maliki government trying to
use this issue as a means to try to coerce the U.S. and to
provide Maliki more arms and advanced weapons systems? Also,
you testified in your statement that the State Department is
watchful of Iranian efforts to use Iraq in order to circumvent
international sanctions. To what extent has Iraq been
successful in that?
Are there also fighters flocking into Syria to fight on--
well, could be both sides--but really all sides of that
conflict? There are reports that suggest that there are members
of the Maliki government who are allowing some Iraqis to cross
into Syria to join the fight. Why is the Iraqi Government
unwilling to stop these extremists from joining ranks with
those fighting in Syria, and does the Maliki government's
refusal to denounce Assad show that his ties with Iran run
deep, and that he does not want to upset the regime in Tehran?
And lastly, at the start of the hearing, I handed you an
envelope filled with letters and a video, and I would like you
to address the issues in the letters. Will the State Department
reevaluate its decision to hand these Jewish artifacts over to
the Iraqi Government, and instead, work to facilitate the safe
and rightful return of these important artifacts to their
rightful owners or their descendants?
Also, the plight of the residents of Camp Ashraf and Camp
Liberty has been tragic, but the situation is getting worse.
This year we saw several deadly attacks, including the
previously mentioned attack at Ashraf in September that left 52
dead, and seven hostages captured. What has the U.S. done to
ensure that the Government of Iraq lives up to its obligation
to protect these residents, and why have we not insisted that
the thousands of T-WALLs needed to protect the camp be
installed?
To date, I am told that only 192 of the 17,500 T-WALLs have
been installed. This is woefully inadequate and more need to be
installed by the end of this year. And I respectfully request
and would appreciate a regular progress report to our
subcommittee on the installment of these protective T-WALLs.
Thank you, sir.
Mr. McGurk. Madam Chairman, first I will make sure that
your letter gets to the Secretary, and this is a daily topic of
conversation with all of the issues in Iraq. But let me kind of
go through issue by issue. I will start with the Jewish
archives. As you know, the archives are now on display at the
National Archives. I went to see them last week. It is really a
remarkable display, both about the Jewish heritage and the
tragic history of this community in Iraq. We are also in daily
conversation with the Iraqi Government and with the Jewish
community here in Iraq. This morning, I was in communication
with Rabbi Baker from the American Jewish Council. I have also
been in regular conversation with Ambassador Faily who is here,
representing the Iraqi Government.
As you know, we have a commitment under an agreement from
2003 to return the archives to Iraq next summer, by the end of
next summer. We have paid for Iraqi archivists who are now here
training with the National Archives to make sure that these
archives are preserved and protected.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. I thank you, sir. I know other members
will follow up, but my time is so limited, about Iran, and
Syria, and Camp Ashraf.
Mr. McGurk. I will stay just briefly on the archives. We
are open to discussion about discussing the disposition of
these archives and I know the Ambassador agrees with that. And
I am happy to discuss that further. On the MEK, this is an
issue that I am tracking every single day on the tragic attack
on September 1st. I went to Iraq shortly thereafter. We worked
very hard to get the remaining survivors off of Camp Ashraf
that were not safe. I visited the residents and the survivors
at Camp Liberty. We are determined to keep them as safe as
possible.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. The T-WALLs?
Mr. McGurk. Yes, thank you. I just spoke with Ambassador
Beecroft this morning. There are about 1,400 large T-WALLs now.
We want to get as many T-WALLs in as possible. Some of this
comes down to logistics. Some of it comes down to getting the
right contractor. Some of it comes down to getting the right
median place for where the T-WALLs go. But there is no excuse.
The T-WALLs need to move into the camp.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, and on Iran's influence in
Iraq, and Syria.
Mr. McGurk. Iran has influence in Baghdad. We have
influence in Baghdad. Other states in the region have
tremendous influence in Baghdad. The issue of overflights,
Madam Chairman, I would really welcome the opportunity to come
and brief you in a classified setting. I can go into some
detail on the numbers and the flights.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. I welcome that. Thank you, and my time is
up, but we will do that, sir. Thank you. Mr. Deutch is
recognized.
Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I would actually
like to get back to the issue of the archives. You said that
you are open to discussion. These are just a couple of
observations, and I appreciate the attention that you paid to
this issue already. Iraq, Babylon was the center of Judaism for
1,000 years, and these documents, tattered as they were, found
now a decade ago, are, according to the agreement that was
reached with the Provisional Authority, were supposed to be
sent back to a place where the number of Jews, numbers perhaps
in the single digits. Many of the documents are very personal
in nature, records of the community, things that are of real
value to the members of the community and their descendants who
simply aren't there.
So help me understand. I understand what the agreement was.
You also said you are now open to discussion. Can we explore
that a little bit and if you can just continue where you left
off? What discussion can we have, and what can we do? What
would be the holdup to ensure that these items that are so
personal to the community that is no longer living in the
country can actually reside with the community where it now
lives?
Mr. McGurk. All I will say right now is that first, I think
everybody should go see the exhibit, and if you need the
technicians who actually traveled to Baghdad in the heart of
one of the worst periods of the war in 2003 to preserve these
materials, it is really a truly remarkable effort by the
National Archives. The State Department is proud to be a
partner with them in that effort. They will be on display at
the Archives. They will then be on display in New York. The
commitment that we made in 2003, and that was a legal agreement
to allow us to get them out of Iraq to preserve this important
material. Without that agreement, the material never would have
been preserved. They will be on display in New York and then
under this commitment, they will transfer to Baghdad in the
late summer of next year.
All I can say is that we have an agreement with the Iraqi
Ambassador here to begin a conversation about longer term loans
here in the United States to make sure the people can view
them. But that will be an ongoing course of discussion. It is
November now. We have until the end of next summer so we do
have some time to discuss this. We have heard very loudly and
clearly the concerns from the community. We have listened to
those and we have taken them to heart and we will see what we
can do.
Mr. Deutch. And I would just add to that, there are, as I
understand it, some 2,700 books, tens of thousands of
documents. It certainly seems that it would be possible to be
able to have the ability to highlight the community that
existed in Iraq in some fashion while still ensuring that the
bulk of these records continue to stay with those who are the
most closely affiliated with them, and whose lives they
reflect.
So I appreciate that, and to the extent that that
conversation is ongoing, there are a lot of us here who offer
ourselves up to be engaged in it. So I thank you for that.
I also would like to just follow up. There was an op ed in
The New York Times that coincided with the visits to the U.S.
Prime Minister Maliki blamed the growing sectarian violence on
al-Qaeda's increased influence. And 2 weeks ago, the Washington
Post reported growing concern over an al-Qaeda affiliated group
of the Islamic State of Iraq in Syria that is described as more
extreme than Jabhat al-Nusra. So what can the U.S. do to
strengthen Iraq's ability to counter these threats, and how do
we foster the kind of dialog that ultimately is necessary for
regional cooperation, in order to prevent the growing
extremism, and can that be done at all and how do we lead it?
Mr. McGurk. Thank you. It is a critical question. One of
the vital interests we face in Iraq is the reemergence of these
al-Qaeda groups. We had very intense discussions with the prime
minister when he was here last week about approaching this with
a holistic strategy. The way we went at this in 2007, 2008, was
by mobilizing popular forces, the Sons of Iraq in Anbar
Province, for example. This cannot only be a security-driven
exercise. We believe we now have an agreement with the Iraqis
in terms of how to go about this problem, isolating these
groups. But make no mistake, the Iraqis need security
assistance. As I put in my written testimony, I describe what
is happening now. We can help the Iraqis identify some of the
al-Qaeda camps, and the camps do exist in the western regions
of the country, but they are not able to effectively target
those camps. They have unarmored helicopters. When they fly an
unarmored helicopter to these camps, the helicopters are
getting shot down. Pilots that we have trained are getting
killed. Over the course of this year, about 938 members of
their Iraqi security forces have been killed in action.
So this is a very serious problem. While the security
element of the strategy is not the lead element, it is an
essential element. And that is why we need to help the Iraqis
as best we can. We are helping them with information sharing
and we are talking about training some of their forces in
Jordan, and working with regional partners. The visit of the
Turkish prime minister to Baghdad was very important. The
strained relationship between Baghdad and Akra was having an
impact on the internal environment of Iraq.
So getting that relationship on a better track is very
important, and we are going to keep working to isolate these
groups. In terms of sectarian violence, the violence that we
have seen in 2011, and 2012; there were about 100 attacks a
week and they were primarily conducted almost entirely by the
Sunni extremists, al-Qaeda-type groups. What we have seen this
year, the violence has gone up. And again, 40 suicide bombers a
month. That is compared with about 5 a month in 2011 and 2012.
And those suicide bombers are having a devastating effect
because they are able to go in and target restaurants, and
playgrounds, and just having a psychological effect on the
country, and that is leading for a renewed call for Shia
extremist militia to form to protect local neighborhoods, and
this is extremely dangerous. We discussed it with the prime
minister in great detail. He agrees that this is a very serious
problem. He also agrees that we have to go about this
politically, economically, and with information-driven,
intelligence-driven security operations. So we think we have
made progress about a common strategy to go after this, but
this is going to be a day-by-day and very hard work.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr.
Deutch. Mr. Chabot is recognized.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. McGurk, you
mentioned in your testimony that Iraq may account for nearly
half of the anticipated growth in global oil output over the
current decade. Can we be sure that the existing agreements
over oil production will be honored in the event of more
domestic instability in Iraq, and can you elaborate on how
Iraq's oil production will be affected in the event social
unrest continues to fester?
Mr. McGurk. Congressman, it is an excellent, excellent,
question, because the more the security situation deteriorates,
that jeopardizes the ability of Iraqis to get that oil on to
global markets. I want to say what we have been doing with the
Iraqis is trying to focus them on using their abundant natural
resources in a strategic way. The problems that beset Iraq are
not problems that developed over the last year, even last
decade, or 100 years. They go back, in some cases, 1,000 years.
We are talking with the Iraqis and having a very good
conversation with regional partners about how to harness their
natural resources to align the interests both internally and
within the region in a stable unified and Federal Iraq. For
example, having strategic pipelines that run from Basra to the
Haditha refinery in the heart of Anbar Province, and then south
through Jordan to the Red Sea, unites the Shi'a in the south,
the Sunnis in Anbar Province, Jordan's real intense need to
energy resources. Connecting that pipeline further, and this is
a discussion that Foreign Minister Davutoglu had with the prime
minister in Baghdad last week, from the Haditha refinery to the
Basra refinery, also in Saladin Province and then to Turkey,
unites the interest of Turkey all the way down to the south and
southern Iraq.
And that is something that the Turkish foreign minister
also pointed out. We are also working with the Kurds and with
the Iraqis in Baghdad to make sure this is done in a strategic
way, and done with revenue-sharing pacts that all Iraqis can
share in their national patrimony. But this is very difficult.
The maxim we use and it is one that is really enshrined in
Iraqi constitution is that all of the oil is owned by all of
the Iraqi people, but that it is better to peacefully divide a
large pie than to fight over a small one. Right now Iraq is
producing about 3 million barrels a day. That is more than it
has produced in almost 20 years. But there are projections from
the International Energy Agency that if Iraq gets its act
together and does some things right, it should be producing 6
million barrel as day by 2020, and we want to help the Iraqis
get there.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you. Let me shift gears here. While Iraqi
Christians find themselves in an increasingly hostile
environment, the Kurdish region was seen as a safe haven for
Christian refugees in Iraq. However, a number of bombings
against Christians in the Kurdish region have changed the
security situation for Christians and with reports of
discrimination, Christians no longer feel safe even in the
Kurdish region. What is the administration doing to help
Christians and other minorities in Iraq and what is the Maliki
government doing to protect Iraqi religious minorities?
Mr. McGurk. Thank you, a very important question. And at
the State Department, also we are focused on this every single
day. I try to meet with the Iraqi Christian communities here in
the United States. When I am in Iraq, I try to meet with the
Christian leaders. Our Ambassadors engage with them on a
regular basis. On my last trip, I met with Bishop Warda who is
in Erbil in the Kurdish region and we asked him, what do you
really need from us? And he needed some more facilitation with
the Kurdish Government there to resolve some land disputes and
they have now set up a joint commission to do just that.
The prime minister met with Archbishop Sako, the main
Christian leader in Iraq in early October to talk about the
threats to the Christian community. The real problem in Iraq
right now is that every community is under tremendous threat.
The casualties that have taken place this year, are a threat to
everybody, but the Christians in particular, and some of the
other minority communities such as the Shabaks and the Yazidis
are under a real threat from these al-Qaeda groups.
We are talking with the Iraqi Christian community here and
also Christian leaders in Baghdad about what we can do to
harness local forces to protect their local communities and
working with the Iraqi Government to get resources into those
communities. And we have made some progress over the last 3 to
4 months, but I just, our eyes are wide open at how difficult
this problem is, and again, the more that this al-Qaeda network
gains strength and gains roots in Western Iraq, the greater the
threat will be. That is why we have to go after that in a very
serious way.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you. Madam Chair, I yield back.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much. Mr. Connolly is
recognized.
Mr. Connolly. I thank the chair. What is the relationship,
Mr. McGurk, in your view, between the government in Tehran, and
Mr. Maliki's government in Baghdad?
Mr. McGurk. It is a relationship that is really
multifaceted. I mean, look at that border. Iraq is going to
have cultural, religious, economic relations with Iran. That is
something we recognize. Where we try to draw a line is any sort
of security relationship with Iran and we have had some success
in that area. My experience over the last decade in working
with Iraqis, whether Shi'a, Sunni, Kurds, Christians everybody,
is that there is really no love lost between Iraqis and Iran.
They remember the very long Iran Iraq war in the 1980s, and
that is really felt very deep in the psychology. Iraq also
feels----
Mr. Connolly. Can I interrupt you 1 second? And you would
say that that view is also shared by the Maliki government
despite the Shia nature of that government?
Mr. McGurk. Sometimes it is a mischaracterization to say
that Shia in Iraq are linked to Shia in Iran. But the Shia in
Iraq and Grand Ayatollah Sistani in Najov and his philosophy of
quietism, is totally 180 degrees opposite to the philosophy of
Khomeini and Khamenei in Tehran which is kind of clerical rule.
Sistani's view is that more of a democratic tradition, which we
would recognize and which there should be separation from the
top clerical leadership in the government. That is something
that most Iraqis adhere to, and it is a critical distinction to
really working with this problem.
Make no mistake, Iranian influence in Baghdad is very
strong. It is there every day. They have had a presence in
Baghdad for 10 years. They have had the same people there that
have built relationships that are very deep, and it is
something we need to deal with. We have to recognize they are
going to have a relationship. It is drawing a line at the
malign and the far east influences from Iran which we are
trying to do.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you. I think that is a really important
distinction. I am glad you got it in the record. Kurdistan, the
Kurdish area in the north has actually sort of had protected
autonomy for--going back to right after the first Gulf War of
the United States. Is that not correct?
Mr. McGurk. Yes.
Mr. Connolly. And it has actually flourished as a result,
not only of our protection, but of its own enterprise and
initiatives, is that correct?
Mr. McGurk. Yes.
Mr. Connolly. And has largely been spared some of the
violence in the rest of Iraq, both pre-, during, and post-U.S.
invasion?
Mr. McGurk. Yes, correct.
Mr. Connolly. Recently, the Kurds seem to have come to an
agreement with the Government of Turkey to build a pipeline
directly to Turkey to provide, I think, largely natural gas, is
that correct?
Mr. McGurk. The pipeline--there is a debate whether it is
going to go directly to Turkey or whether that is going to plug
into the existing pipelines that exist already. The oil
pipeline is going to plug into the existing Iraq/Turkey
pipeline which is on the Kurdish side of the----
Mr. Connolly. Right, but the Turks and the Kurds have been
talking about a direct pipeline that would actually bypass the
national system in Iraq, if I understand it correctly.
Mr. McGurk. There has been a lot of discussion----
Mr. Connolly. Right.
Mr. McGurk [continuing]. A lot of press reports and
industry reports, but I think actually looking at where the
pipelines are going, right now the oil pipeline is going to
plug in on the Kurdish side, and we have not seen a clear
indication that there is going to be an independent pipeline.
Mr. Connolly. Well, those same reports you are referring
to, Mr. McGurk, also report that the United States Government
has been pretty active, if not animated on this topic,
discouraging the bypassing of the national pipelines because
your point earlier, it would diminish the Nation's cohesion
that we are trying to seek in Iraq. Would that be inaccurate?
Mr. McGurk. That is not entirely accurate and thank you for
letting me address that. It is our position that as much oil
and natural gas from the Kurdish region should get on the
global markets as soon as possible, full stop. That is our
position. We look at this very closely, though, and want to
make sure that it is done in a way that does not have
repercussion, or backlash that could jeopardize getting to the
point where I talked about in my testimony that Iraq is a 6-10
million barrel-a-day producer, though that is a long-term
vision, and this is a very politically fraught issue in Iraq.
We don't take sides.
We look to the Iraqi constitution as the baseline. We try
to make sure that this is being done and managed in a strategic
way, but it is our position we want as much oil and gas from
the Kurdish region getting on the global markets as soon as
possible.
Mr. Connolly. And presumably, one other factor is we also
are not unsympathetic to our long-time ally, Turkey, in trying
to secure its own fossil fuels.
Mr. McGurk. Absolutely right, which is why we are big
supporters of a strategic pipeline going from Basra all the way
up to Jahan in the Mediterranean through Turkey and having
Kurdish pipelines plug into that national infrastructure.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, sir.
Mr. McGurk. It is a win/win vision.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Connolly. Mr. Wilson is
recognized.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary, thank you
for being here. As I mentioned, I am very, very grateful that I
have had two sons serve in Iraq, Army, Navy. I am grateful that
we have even had Members of Congress, my colleague, Congressman
Kinzinger right here has served twice in Iraq. The American
people have shed blood on behalf of the people of Iraq, and we
want success and hope for success.
Additionally, I have had the opportunity to visit the
country 11 times. I have been very impressed by the people I
have met. And again, I am hopeful for the country. But a real
tragedy has been the murders at Camp Ashraf. Since December
2008, before our Government turned over the protection of the
camp to the Iraqi Government, Prime Minister Maliki has
repeatedly assured the world that it would treat the residents
humanely and protect them from harm. Yet, it has not kept the
promise, as 111 residents have been murdered in cold blood and
more than 1,000 wounded in 5 attacks, including the September
1st massacre. What is the United States doing to prevent
further attacks and greater loss of life in terms of ensuring
the safety and security of the residents?
Mr. McGurk. Congressman, first let me say thank you for
your service, and your family's service. Speaking for myself
and my team, who have spent many years in Iraq and have known
friends of ours who we have lost in Iraq, it is something that
we think about every day, and it inspires our work and our
determination to do everything possible to succeed under very
difficult circumstances.
Regarding Camp Ashraf and Camp Liberty, the only place for
the MEK and the residents of the Camp Liberty to be safe, is
outside of Iraq. Camp Liberty is a former U.S. military base.
We lost Americans right nearby there as late as the summer of
2010. We lost a number of Americans to rocket fire and indirect
fire attacks in our Embassy compound, one of the most secure
facilities in the country as late as the summer of 2010. That
is when we had about 60,000 troops in the country doing
everything we possibly could to hunt down the rocket teams that
we knew were targeting us.
There are cells in Iraq, we believe, directed, inspired
from Iran, which are targeting the MEK. There is no question
about that. And the only place where an MEK can be safe is
outside of Iraq. That is why the State Department, the
Secretary, has appointed a colleague of mine, Jonathan Winer to
work this issue full-time, to find a place for them to go.
Right now, there are about 2,900 residents at Camp Liberty, and
Albania has taken in about 210. Germany has agreed to take in
100 and that is it.
We need to find a place for these people to go, it is an
urgent humanitarian issue, and an international humanitarian
crisis. And I went to the camp to meet with the survivors and
to speak with the families. And I promised to do everything I
possibly could to get them to safety. And in the meantime, it
is incumbent upon the Iraqi Government to do everything it
possibly can to keep them safe, and that means the T-WALLs and
sandbags and everything else. But the only place for the
residents to be safe would be outside of Iraq. Since the tragic
attacks at Camp Liberty on September 1st, 1,300 Iraqis were
killed, 52 people were massacred at Camp Ashraf.
This is a tragic, horrifying act. But since then, 1,300
Iraqis in the country have been killed. The country is
incredibly dangerous, and for the MEK to be safe they have to
leave Iraq and we want to find a place for them to go.
Mr. Wilson. Well, I appreciate your commitment to that.
After the September 1st massacre, the State Department called
for an independent investigation by the United Nations, 74 days
on nothing's been done, let alone an independent investigation.
Could you tell this committee whether any independent probe has
been carried out or not? If so, by whom, and what is the
finding? If not, why not? Five attacks have been launched
against the residents and not one person has been arrested.
What do we do to maintain promises of protection?
Mr. McGurk. Congressman, shortly after the attack, we
worked with the United Nations to make sure that they got a
team up to Camp Ashraf within 24 hours of the attack to
document exactly what happened because there were a lot of
stories of what happened. They went there, took photographs of
the bodies to make sure that it was documented as to how these
people were killed and there is no question about it.
We have looked very closely at all of our information. I
know I have had the opportunity to brief some members of the
subcommittee in a classified setting, which I would be pleased
to do again to update you on the information that we have. We
did call for an investigation and for the U.N. to be involved
in this process. The U.N. was also involved in making sure the
survivors got out of Camp Ashraf and out of harm's way to Camp
Liberty.
Again, Congressman, I would welcome the opportunity to come
discuss with you in a classified setting exactly everything we
know about what happened on September 1st.
Mr. Wilson. And I have been to Camp Liberty many times, but
I obviously am concerned. I appreciate your commitment and
indeed, every effort should by made to protect those citizens.
Thank you.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Wilson. Mr. Sherman of
California is recognized.
Mr. Sherman. I thank the chair and ranking member for the
opportunity to participate in this hearing. Maliki wants our
weapons, yet he allows planes to go from Iran to Syria taking
murderers, and thugs, and the IRGC and weapons with them. He
says that he can't defend his own air space, but he certainly
has not invited Turkey, Saudi Arabia or the United States to
defend that air space from these murderers that fly leisurely
across Iraq and do their killing in Syria.
I want to focus on finances. How much money are we
scheduled to give Iraq this year? How much do they get from oil
and are they pumping oil as quickly as they can or constraining
their production in accordance with OPEC rules?
Mr. McGurk. In terms of money, we are not really giving
Iraq much money at all anymore, our assistance levels have gone
down dramatically.
Mr. Sherman. But it is still well over $1 billion?
Mr. McGurk. No, I believe the most recent request is now
under $1 billion. It has gone from about $1.5 billion last year
to Fiscal Year 2013 to about $180 million. And I can again
brief you on the glide path overall presence.
In terms of oil, it is actually quite the opposite, the
Iraqis done everything possible to get as much oil on to
international markets as possible.
Mr. Sherman. So they are pumping----
Mr. McGurk. And the Iranian oil minister last week said
that it was an unfriendly act what the Iraqis were doing in
terms of getting that much oil on to Iraqi markets. As Iranian
oil has come down, thanks to our sanctions by at about 1
million barrels a day, Iraqi oil has gone up by 800,000 barrels
a day which has really helped stabilize global markets.
Mr. Sherman. As it would be in production.
Saddam Hussein's government incurred tens of billions of
dollars of borrowings, Saddam would have wanted to call it
gifts from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and others in the Gulf which
he used to fight the Iran-Iraq war. Has the Iraq Government
made payments on this debt, renounced the debt or does it just
kind of sit on their balance sheet with no particular
explanation?
Mr. McGurk. These are the debts the Iraqis owe?
Mr. Sherman. This is debts of the Iraqi Government to the
Governments of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait incurred during the
Iran-Iraq war.
Mr. McGurk. Some of those debts, as you know, have been
forgiven through Paris club commitments, other debts have not.
I would have to get you the numbers.
Mr. Sherman. Please get me information on that.
Now I would like to join with Mr. Wilson and others in
focusing on Camp Liberty. You had 101 members of the MEK there,
52 were killed, that is a 50 percent casualty rate for roughly
a million times for the casualty rate that ordinary Iraqi
civilians have faced in the unfortunate deaths that have
occurred in Iraq.
Included among those who died was the brother of Assaf al-
Mia who I believe is in our audience today. The State
Department has issued a statement saying, well, the Iraqi
Government had nothing to do with it, which to me is an
incredible indictment. They have an obligation to protect the
residence of the camp, and according to our own State
Department, did nothing. In fact, the assailants had to get
past several checkpoints in order to carry out their murders.
When we were at Camp Liberty, or when we were in Iraq, Camp
Liberty had 17,000 of those T-WALLs that protect those who live
in the camp from missiles and mortars.
Now there are less than 200. What have we done to make it
clear to Maliki that he has to put back the T-WALLs and provide
the defense or will he keep the people there subject to attack
and then disclaim any responsibility when they are, in fact,
attacked?
Mr. McGurk. I just want to make clear what the U.S.
position is, we looked at this very closely in terms of no
credible evidence going all the way up to the top of the Iraqi
Government in terms of this particular attack.
Mr. Sherman. But you have no credible evidence that they
lifted a finger to stop it?
Mr. McGurk. Iraq, as I said in my testimony, is an
extremely violent place and a couple of months before the
Ashraf attack the Abu Ghraib prison complex was attacked by
hundreds of al-Qaeda-linked fighters. And they took over the
prison or, at least almost everyone in the prison. We think in
that attack, there was no foreign knowledge from the highest
levels of Iraqi Government, there was probably some complicity
at a local level, and we think the Ashraf attack was similar.
Mr. Sherman. Complicity at the local level?
Mr. McGurk. I think it is a reasonable assumption there was
some.
Mr. Sherman. What about complicity with the failure of
Maliki to deploy the 17,500 T-WALLs?
Mr. McGurk. The T-WALLs--as you know, when the residents
move into Camp Liberty, it had the same T-WALL configuration we
had to protect troops, and the residents, and I can understand
why, says this looks like a prison we want to get the T-WALLs
out, and so all the T-WALLs came out. Given the threat they are
under the T-WALLs have been moving back in.
There are different numbers on the numbers of T-WALLs. I
was just at the camp about a month about or so ago, or a couple
of months ago, and saw with my own eyes. And I want to get more
T-WALLs into the camp. I spoke with Ambassador Beecroft about
this just today, and there is an agreement with the Iraqi
Government, we have to get the right meeting and place the
right people there for where the T-WALLs are going to go, and I
think we will see more T-WALLs moving into the camp, but we are
continuing to work as hard as we can.
Mr. Sherman. We have fewer than 200, we need 17,500. I
yield back.
Mr. DeSantis [presiding]. The Chair now recognizes the
gentleman from California. You are lit up.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much. All right. Well,
where do we start? I just, $880 million in aid after at least
of the money we will be expending for Iraq after spending
almost $1 trillion over a decade, and 6,000 lives for which I
have seen no gratitude whatsoever from senior members of the
Iraqi Government, nor from the Iraqi people. Why do we care
anymore about whether or not al-Qaeda is operating and killing
some of their soldiers? Why do we care? They don't care for us,
they are not grateful for what we have already done. Why should
we be giving even more money to a country that is headed by
people of that inclination?
Mr. McGurk. Congressman, thank you. I just want to clarify,
the $880 million is our operating request, the current budget
for sustaining our presence in Iraq and doing various things we
are doing there.
Mr. Rohrabacher. That is right. So why should we do that?
Mr. McGurk. Well, we have a vital interest at stake in
Iraq, whether you measure it from al-Qaeda, whether you measure
it from the oil production, whether you measure it from just
the overall stability of the region. I think withdrawing from
Iraq in terms of our overall diplomatic presence in what we are
doing would have a really devastating consequence to our
longer-term interest. I would point you to an important op ed
the Iraqi Ambassador wrote on our Veterans Day thanking all the
sacrifice in Iraq. I would like to see more as well.
Mr. Rohrabacher. I will have to say that independently, I
have never had an experience, I have been in and out of Iraq a
number of times and been with a number of Iraqis. Not once that
I have someone independently without being told to come up to
me and say how grateful they are ever to suggest that. I would
suggest it is a big stretch to say that things going on in some
province in Iraq because there is some al-Qaeda element there
murdering other Iraqis that we need to get involved in that any
more than he have in the past. We are pouring more money down
the rat hole, but also it really makes a mockery, this whole
thing makes a mockery of the commitment we have had in the
past.
Let me just ask, you believe them from what you have said
that there was legitimate security reasons that those T-WALLs
have not been put up at Camp Liberty?
Mr. McGurk. No, I do not think they are legitimate security
reasons the T-WALLs have not been put up.
Mr. Rohrabacher. It sounded to me when I was listening, and
I listened very closely to what you said, that we can't blame
the leadership in the Maliki leadership for the lack of
security at Camp Liberty?
Mr. McGurk. No, in fact, my conversation from Maliki on
down is you need as many T-WALLs into that camp as possible,
without any excuse. Full stop. So you may have heard me say
something different. I want----
Mr. Rohrabacher. If I am misinterpreting what you said.
Now, tell me this, those troops that came into Camp Ashraf
murdered 52 unarmed MEK refugees, you hold that this was done
by a rogue element in the Iraqi army or do you think that
Maliki regime is complicit in this murder?
Mr. McGurk. I don't believe it was a rogue element. I think
a lot of this goes back to the background of the situation.
Camp Ashraf was seen as a forward operating base to the MEK----
Mr. Rohrabacher. I don't need a background on it. I am
trying to find out--it is clear that we had Iraqi soldiers
going in there murdering people who were unarmed, tying their
hands behind their back and then blowing their brains out. This
is an atrocity, it is a crime against humanity. Now I don't
need a background to find out the background on Camp Ashraf. Do
we hold the government responsible or was it a rogue element?
And if it was a rogue element in the military, what has the
Maliki regime done to deal with that?
Mr. McGurk. Congressman, I would really welcome the
opportunity to come speak to you in a classified setting and
tell you everything we know about this attack including, who
committed the atrocity.
Mr. Rohrabacher. You know, I am not asking for all the
information that you know, I am asking who we are holding
accountable, and we aren't. Clearly, we are sending a message
to the Maliki government that it is okay, because we are not
doing anything about it. We have--here is a picture of a
gentleman who used to work up here, I submit this now, Mr.
Chairman, for the record. A gentleman who used to work right
here on Capitol Hill representing the MEK, and we saw him on
many occasions. And guess what, here is his body at Camp Ashraf
where they have murdered him, brutally tied his hands behind
his back and blown his brains out.
We need to make sure--if we excuse this by lack of
attention, we are sending our own message as to what values we
have and we are sending other dictators and terrorists a
message as well about American weakness. I am not satisfied
with what this administration is doing on this issue.
And one last note, Mr. Chairman, and that is, look, these
people are under attack, I think at the very least, it is my
opinion right now in this, we should take the people in at Camp
Liberty, let's just take them in.
Is there a reason why--I am writing legislation that would
grant these people asylum, obviously their lives are at stake
and obviously, they are now unarmed refugees. Is there some
reason that we should not give them political asylum?
Mr. McGurk. I will say----
Mr. DeSantis. The gentleman's time has expired. Do you
want--maybe you can finish up on one of the other--I am going
to move it along. I don't see anybody here from the other side
of the aisle, so I will recognize somebody from this side of
the aisle. Next person in the queue is Mr. Kinzinger from
Illinois.
Mr. Kinzinger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Mr. McGurk,
thanks for being here and thanks for your service to your
country. I know it is not always easy but we appreciate what
you are doing.
Just a couple of questions as Mr. Wilson so kindly
mentioned, I am a veteran of Iraq and saw quite a bit of
sacrifice from the American side in terms of what was created
there. In fact, I think one of the bravest political decisions,
and frankly, military decisions that has been made in 50 years
was the surge in Iraq. I heard a lot of people, including
frankly the current administration oppose the surge, thinking
that the war in Iraq is lost. I heard a very powerful person in
the Senate say that the war is lost, it is time to go home. And
we saw that despite that, a tough decision was made to surge.
The surge, the addition of 20,000 additional troops helped, but
what really helped was the message that the United States, the
enemy knew we would never be defeated on the battlefield and we
won't be, the focus that we are committed.
My good friend, Mr. Rohrabacher, I have to take slight
exception, I think there is quite a bit at stake in Iraq. I
think a resurgent al-Qaeda is extremely concerning in Iraq. I
think resurgent al-Qaeda in a very frankly potentially powerful
and oil rich Nation is not just not in the interest of the
Iraqi people, it is not in the interest of the United States,
it is not in the interest of the free world. And it is
especially not in the interest of the 6,000 people that gave
their lives to help create what was created over there.
I was shocked frankly at the end of 2011 at the complete
pullout of U.S. forces. I thought we could have negotiated much
harder for residual force in Iraq. I think had we left the
residual force in Iraq, we would not be seeing the kind of
violence we do now. So that said, I don't have a time machine
and I can't go back in time and convince the President that
Iraq was in our interest to leave a residual force there.
I do have a couple of questions about the resurgent AQI
presence in Iraq. The President's claimed numerous times that
al-Qaeda's been decimated, but that is not the case. Frankly
anywhere around the globe or in Iraq, we are seeing sectarian
violence in Iraq today at levels that we saw when I served
there, which was completely incomprehensible. Has the
administration, in your mind, underestimated the growth reached
in capacity of the al-Qaeda and its affiliates in Iraq?
Mr. McGurk. Congressman, first thank you for your service,
and with all that you have seen, your experience is really
critical to getting this right now. And so I think this dialog
is very important. I don't want to get into whether it is
underestimated, I am really focused on my job on where we are
now and we face a real problem. There is no question that ISIL
is growing roots in Syria and in Iraq. And the one thing with
this Iraqi Government, they want to go after this threat and we
want to help them. We want to help them do it in an effective
way.
As you know from your experience, the reason the surge
worked was not just the troops, it was the strategy. And the
reason the sons of Iraq and the awakening worked was because of
really three things: We trusted them, we paid them, and they
believed they are going to win. Right now the Iraqis are
telling us and the Minister of Defense, Sa'doun al-Dulaimi, who
is from Anbar province. They will trust them, they can give
them resources, but right now, they don't think they are going
to win because the al-Qaeda groups have better weapons and
better resources, quite frankly, in some of these areas. So
that is a problem we are trying to address.
Mr. Kinzinger. Okay, thank you. In shaping the future
policy toward Iraq has the administration taken into account
recent operations launched by AQI's resurgent effort including
breaking the walls the soldiers harvest campaign in which
vehicle-borne IEDs have been used in staggering numbers?
Mr. McGurk. In my testimony, I discussed, I didn't use the
exact words, but that is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's strategy, he
announced it and then he carried it out. The breaking walls
campaign was about prison attacks and security forces, and
others--his campaign was about attacking government targets
including the Ministry of Justice building in downtown Baghdad
in March. They attacked the intelligence headquarters in Erbil
on September 21st. And they have attacked, particularly Shi'a
civilians week after week after week trying to spark that cycle
of sectarian violence that we saw at the worst phases of the
war. So far, the Shi'a militia response has been localized and
has not had a strategic effect but is something we are watching
very closely.
Mr. Kinzinger. Well, thank you. And just in the last 30
seconds, I have, I just want to say for the record, I hope that
the administration, and again, we can go back in time and argue
whether we should have left a residual force, I have made my
point on that. But I hope that in the future, we are acting
very proactively to help the Iraq Government root out
terrorism. I don't know what that necessarily will involve,
there are some things that I don't want to say here, but I
think an Iraq that falls prey to al-Qaeda, to lawlessness,
frankly like we saw in the mid 2000s, would be tragic for the
United States, for the whole region and for not only our
reputation, but for a lot of people who just want to live in
peace. And again, thank you for your service. Mr. Chairman, I
yield back. Madam Chair, I yield.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen [presiding]. Mr. Kinzinger, we are proud
of your valuable service. Thank you so much. We are very proud,
we have many vets in our subcommittee, and we thank each and
every one of them. Mr. DeSantis was one of them. Thank you for
chairing while I was out. And Mr. DeSantis is now recognized.
Mr. DeSantis. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I had kind of
cut off your answer when I was chairman because we were way
over time, so do you just want to answer the question Mr.
Rohrabacher had asked you about the administration's position
on asylum for these folks?
Mr. McGurk. I will defer to the lawyers on some of this,
but as a former terrorist organization, even though they are no
longer designated an FTO, there are legal restrictions in terms
of our ability to bring a large number of the group into the
United States under existing laws. There are processes that are
under discussion, and I am happy to discuss that with you in
follow-up. But a legislative fix on some of these issues is
something that we would look at.
Mr. DeSantis. When I was in Iraq, this was kind of right
when the surge had started, back when I was on active duty. And
as you know, you were part of that, you had AQI ascending, 2006
was a disaster. You also had Quds force and the Shiite militias
wreaking havoc in other parts of Iraq. And the surge was very
successful at quelling that, but then as I read what is going
on now, it seems like a lot of what is going on is reminiscent
of those years. So can you speak to, I know you talked about
Iran does have a lot of influence particularly in Baghdad
generally, what is the influence of Quds force and how are they
interacting with the Iraqi Government, if at all?
Mr. McGurk. And again, you would recognize from your
experience, Congressman, if you charted out right now the
levels of violence on just al-Qaeda violence, suicide bombers
and vehicle bombs, we are at a level not seen, as the chairman
said earlier, since 2008. But if you look at overall violence,
it is still down substantially and the reason for that is
because the Shi'a militia violence which we were seeing in
those days has not really responded in reciprocal tit-for-tat
way. So that is really significant. If we see that type of
response, it will be very concerning.
The Quds forces we see right now, they do not want Iraq to
be destabilized. We do think however that they are working with
certain Shi'a militia groups, including the top Hezbollah,
Subil Hok and some of these other groups that you know well.
And they are really focused, though, on a localized kind of
mission-by-mission basis.
All I can say is that in our conversations with the Iraqis,
we share as much information as we possibly can and make very
clear that they need to push back against this. Prime Minister
Maliki does remind us that he did take on the militias in
Karbil and Basra, and that he is ready to take them on again if
necessary. But this is something that we just need to keep
pushing.
The Iranians have done very maligned things in Iraq,
particularly when we were present there. Right now it looks
like they don't want to have a destabilized Iraq, but they are
also responding to demands from particularly the Shi'a
community for self-protection in ways that might not be
particularly helpful.
Mr. DeSantis. So in terms of AQI, and I take your point
about the level of violence not reaching those 2006 levels
which is good, even though it has risen. Back then you had
foreign fighters coming into Iraq fighting as a part of AQI.
Now we know Syria is kind of a magnet for a lot of these folks.
So is it safe to say that most foreign fighters are now going
to Syria who were the Sunni-aligned foreign fighters? And if
that is the case, are they going through Iraq, or are some of
these AQI fighters in Iraq, I guess they are playing a pretty
big role in facilitating those folks into Syria?
Mr. McGurk. The suicide bombers we believe are all foreign
fighters, nearly all of them are foreign fighters, they are
coming through the ISIL networks, and they are coming from
Syria into Iraq. So we think what happens there are these young
guys who are brainwashed to go fight a global Jihad. They show
up in Syria, if you can fire a rifle you go fight, if you are a
mechanic, you fix a truck, and if you are just indoctrinated,
you go be a suicide bomber. And about 40 of them now a month
are being directed toward Iraq. And the suicide bombers again,
as I said, are having a real devastating effect.
In terms of foreign fighters from Iraq going to Syria
both--you have a youthful population, you have an underemployed
population, and they are all watching this conflict unfold on
YouTube with particularly gruesome videos. And that is having a
militarizing, radicalizing effect, both within the Sunni
community and the Shi'a community. That is one reason why my
colleagues on the Syria side of the policy House here are
trying to work so hard to settle that issue down.
Mr. DeSantis. And then my final question is does the Iraqi
Government have a relationship in any way with Hezbollah?
Mr. McGurk. In terms of a formal relationship, none that we
have seen in a formalized way.
Mr. DeSantis. Thank a lot. I yield back the balance of my
time.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Mr. DeSantis, and we
saved the best for last. A person who just knows that is the
way it is. So pleased to yield 5 minutes to Judge Poe of Texas.
Mr. Poe. Thank you, Madam Speaker or Madam Chair. I have
been to Iraq a lot, I have seen a lot of people in Iraq, and I
have met with Maliki. I was with Mr. Rohrabacher, we met with
Maliki and we asked him this one question: Can we go see the
people at Camp Ashraf and he said, absolutely not. In fact, he
got so incensed that we asked that question when we were on a
helicopter flying to the north to see the Kurds, he went to the
State Department and asked us to leave the country, we were
kicked out of the country.
So when you see him get a little emotional and me as well,
here we are giving billions to a country where the Prime
Minister refuses to let Members of Congress see what is taking
place in Camp Ashraf, that is the background. Five attacks on
Camp Ashraf and Liberty, five, over a period of years. Not one
criminal has been brought to justice, not one. We don't even
know their names or who they are. If the Iraqis were serious
about investigating they would at least bring in somebody. If
those investigators worked for me when I was a prosecutor they
would have been fired several attacks ago.
These people that are here, working people, Americans and
they are concerned about people they love in Iraq. And they
constantly are losing friends and family members to attacks.
Meanwhile the United States, I am not sure what we are doing. I
now understand that not any of the witnesses have been talked
to about the latest attack. These are real people that are
killed, and I am sorry for the graphicness of this poster but
this has happened at Camp Liberty where the people were in the
clinic and they were assassinated, they were tracked down and
murdered.
Now we would think, being the freedom-loving country we
are, that we would be opposed to this type of activity and we
would be a little bit more to pressure it because it is our
responsibility. You have made the comment that we are not
taking these people into the United States because they used to
be a foreign terrorist organization, but the State Department,
through the Secretary of State, can waive that as has been done
with 12 previous people who came in.
When I talked to other countries about why don't you take
these folks from the MEK, you know what the first thing they
say is? United States is hypocritical. They say people ought to
take them but you won't take any of them. Got a good point.
When we talk to the Germans and the French and the Brits, the
people in the Netherlands that they ought to take former MEK
members, they say, well, you are not taking any of them. Good,
it is an excellent point.
I find it hard to believe that the Iraqi security forces
were unaware of this attack when they had to go through
numerous checkpoints to get to the place where they murdered
these folks. The Iraqis are responsible for guarding them, they
were missing in action. They all went on a donut break at the
time that these homicides occurred, they are always missing.
And there is a debate about the seven that were taken and
captured. I have become a real good fan of the French foreign
affairs minister, especially with the last situation where he
stopped this bad deal with Iran. But in a letter to some of his
people in the Parliament, he makes the comment that as far as
he is concerned, these seven are still in Iraq. My question is,
have these seven people been rescued to your knowledge, no
matter where they are?
Mr. McGurk. No.
Mr. Poe. Has anybody in the State Department interrogated
the survivors as far as a criminal investigation going on? Have
we seen in all of the investigators that we have, or any
investigators to talk about who happened, what did these people
look like, et cetera, et cetera?
Mr. McGurk. We have turned as much information as we
possibly can to find out where these seven people are. I would
be happy, as I have done with some members of the subcommittee,
to brief you in a classified setting.
Mr. Poe. That is not my question. My question is have they
been asked specifically about the murders in the camp that they
survived, about who they were, what they looked like, what they
said, what language they were speaking, have they been
interrogated about those basic criminal investigation
questions?
Mr. McGurk. We have asked our contacts with the MEK that we
deal with to put their experts and those of information in
touch with our experts, particularly at our Embassy to connect
some of the dots.
Mr. Poe. We have waived 12 and allowed them to come into
the United States, why haven't we waived that for people?
Mr. McGurk. Congressman, I want to be very precise in my
language, when I mention that a legal fix would help given the
FTO designation. We are deliberating internally about our
policy regarding entry into the United States, a decision has
been made that is why I cannot discuss that further here.
Mr. Poe. Well, it is the law, is it not, that the Secretary
of State can waive that under the current law right now, that
is not any big secret.
Mr. McGurk. There are mechanisms in which a limited number
would be able to come into the United States, yes.
Mr. Poe. So what do we tell these folks, that freedom-
loving folks that are just in a place where they don't want to
be, we won't take them, we can't get other countries to take
them. And do you know what they are waiting for, the next
attack, if we don't hold Maliki accountable. I just want to
make this comment. I don't know if you have seen this letter or
not, but 44 of us, 22 Democrats and 22 Republicans have sent a
letter to the President of the United States saying no more
money to Iraq until there is accountability for the murders in
Camp Ashraf. Have you seen that letter?
Mr. McGurk. I have seen that letter, yes.
Mr. Poe. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. You have to end the same way you always
end.
Mr. Poe. And that is just the way it is.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. I tease, we saved the best for
last with Judge Poe, but now we have the best for last on the
Democratic side, my good friend from Texas, Sheila Jackson Lee.
I am going to let her take a breath here before she is
recognized. Ms. Jackson Lee is recognized.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Let me thank the chairwoman for her
indulgence and as well as the ranking member for his indulgence
as well. I would say, Mr. Secretary, many of us have been down
this road before. And I must say that, I will say that in
engaging the administration, I have received the 2 o'clock a.m.
phone calls, I have seen phone calls from the envoy who was in
Iraq on these crisis issues. And so I can say that I know that
the heart of the administration is in the right place. I also
know that there are families who have not been able to be
engaged with their loved ones, there are families who have seen
their loved ones dying in bloodshed they have not been able to
protect.
There have been promises made as the camps have been moved
from one place to the next where we have thought that that
would have been a safe location, a safe house, and come to find
out the most recent attack, bloody attack that we have
experienced has really had our ire be raised.
Now let me just say this, I, along with, I know my
colleague, the chairwoman during the heat of the Iraqi war, we
have gone over many times. We have met with Maliki, we were the
supporters of Iraq standing on its feet. We were the
supporters, she had one position about the war, I had another
position about the war, I opposed the war, but we were
collectively supportive of Iraq being able to get on its feet,
and Iraq being able to have a constitution. I was engaged in
the discussions about women being included in the constitution.
I take no back seat to trying to give Iraq every opportunity to
be the kind of human rights, dignified democracy that they
allege that they want to be, to allow everyone to live in
dignity. This is not happening.
What I want to focus on, as Mr. Wilson, Mr. Poe, Mr.
Rohrabacher, on Camp Ashraf, all of them to put it in the way
of my advocacy for the administration, for Secretary Kerry and
the enormous work that is being done, and my hope for the
success of his work, but there are hostages in Iraq that we
must have now. There is documentation that those hostages are
there by our French allies, by the United Nations and other
supportive groups and information.
I can't imagine with the wealth of sophisticated
intelligence authorities that we have, that we have funded, who
have a vast array of information about Americans cannot
pinpoint where starving Iranians, loved ones whose families are
trying to save their lives after being on a hunger strike for
73 days. So I would ask this question of you, already knowing
about your heart and your concern, I will not judge you, I
already know that you are committed to getting this right. Will
you, will you demand of Maliki not next week, not months from
now, but can we expect in the next 48 hours a call to the head
of the Government of Iraq demanding the release of these
hostages and demanding for their release now, or the documented
undeniable evidence that they are not held within the bounds of
Iraq.
Second, would you be engaged with, or the Secretary be
engaged with, and I have spoken to Secretary Kerry, I know his
heart, with Maliki to demand the security of those in Camp
Ashraf for now and forever until an ultimate solution of
relocation to their homeland, a place of where their relatives
are, or where they desire to be. Mr. McGurk, thank you for your
testimony here today and I thank the gentlelady for yielding. I
am short on this time, but I am hoping I will hear from you in
a moment.
Mr. McGurk. Congresswoman, thank you and thank you for your
engagement on all of these issues. I know we have had
conversations at particularly difficult times. I want to thank
you personally.
We can't pinpoint where the people are, and I would like to
follow up with you on that. They are not in Iraq, the seven
people. But I will guarantee that in my conversations with
Maliki on down, the safety and security of Camp Ashraf, Camp
Liberty of where the residents are, the Iraqi Government needs
to do everything possible to keep those people safe but they
will never be safe until they are out of Iraq. And we all need
to work together, the MEK, us, the committee, everybody, the
international community to find a place for them to go.
There is now a U.N. Trust Fund, we have donated $1 million
and we are asking for international contributions to that fund
for countries like Albania that don't have resources but are
willing to take the MEK in, and we need to press foreign
capitals to take them in because until they are out of Iraq,
they are not going to be safe. And we don't want anyone else to
get hurt, we don't want any more Americans to get hurt in Iraq,
and we don't any more residents of Camp Liberty to get hurt in
Iraq. And until they are out of Iraq, they are not going to be
safe. This is an international crisis and we need international
help and support.
Ms. Jackson Lee. May I just have a moment more to follow
up, Secretary McGurk, I hear the passion in your voice. We are
in an open hearing, you know where they are who is going to
rescue them? Whose responsibility will it be to get them from
where they are into safe haven? Because otherwise, we are
leaving Maliki now without responsibility. We are saying, and
you are documenting that they are not there. Let me just say
that when my government speaks, I try with my best heart and
mind to believe it. But I have got to see them alive and well
to believe that they are not where I think they are, but they
are in a--I am glad to hear that, I want them to be safe, but I
want them to be in the arms of their loved ones or at least to
be recognized by their loved ones that they are safe somewhere.
So can that be done in the next 48 hours? Can we have a manner
that indicates that they are safe?
Mr. McGurk. I will repeat here a statement that we issued
on September 16th, and it is notable, I was going to mention
this in my colloquy with the Congressman to my left, that
within hours of the attack, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard
Corps issued a statement praising the attack. We issued a
statement on September 16th calling on the Government of Iran
to use whatever influence it might have with groups who might
be holding its missing persons to secure their immediate
release. And I can talk more about details and about the status
of these individuals and brief some members of the
subcommittee. I would be happy to follow up.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much. Thank you Ms.
Jackson Lee.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Mr. McGurk, thank youtestimony, thank all
the witnesses in the audience for your participation and with
that the subcommittee is adjourned. Thank you, sir.
[Whereupon, at 4:08 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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